Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru The National Assembly for

Cofnod y Trafodion The Record of Proceedings

Dydd Mercher, 7 Tachwedd 2012 Wednesday, 7 November 2012 07/11/2012

Cynnwys Contents

3 Cwestiynau i‘r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau Questions to the Minister for Education and Skills

21 Cwestiynau i‘r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau Questions to the Minister for Local Government and Communities

42 Datganiad: Cyflwyno Bil Arfaethedig Aelod—Bil Safleoedd Rheoleiddiedig Cartrefi Symudol (Cymru) Statement: Introduction of a Member Proposed Bill—the Regulated Mobile Home Sites (Wales) (Bill)

57 Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Y Lluoedd Arfog Welsh Conservatives Debate: The Armed Forces

84 Dadl Plaid Cymru: Gwella Ysgolion Plaid Cymru Debate: School Improvement

111 Dadl Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru: Cyllideb Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru Welsh Liberal Democrats Debate: The Welsh Ambulance Service Budget

137 Cyfnod Pleidleisio Voting Time

Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr. Yn y golofn dde, cynhwyswyd cyfieithiad.

In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they were spoken in the Chamber. In the right-hand column, a translation has been included.

2 07/11/2012

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1.30 p.m.gyda’r Llywydd (Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair. The Assembly met at 1.30 p.m.with the Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.

The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. The Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da. Dyma ddechrau National Assembly for Wales is now in trafodion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. session.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau Questions to the Minister for Education and Skills

Darpariaeth Addysg Bellach Further Education Provision

1. Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y 1. Mark Drakeford: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am fuddsoddi make a statement on investment in further mewn darpariaeth addysg bellach yn education provision in the Cardiff area. ardal Caerdydd. OAQ(4)0197(ESK) OAQ(4)0197(ESK)

The Minister for Education and Skills Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton (Leighton Andrews): The Welsh Andrews): Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi Government has agreed in principle with the cytuno mewn egwyddor â chynnig i development of a new city-centre campus at a ddatblygu campws newydd yng nghanol y cost of £40 million, with the Welsh ddinas ar gost o £40 miliwn, gyda Government contributing 50% of the overall Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyfrannu 50% o cost. This investment is subject to approval of gyfanswm y gost. Mae‘r buddsoddiad hwn yn the necessary business case in line with the amodol ar gymeradwyo‘r achos busnes Treasury five-case model. angenrheidiol yn unol â model pum achos y Trysorlys.

Mark Drakeford: I was a member of the Mark Drakeford: Roeddwn yn aelod o South Glamorgan education committee in the bwyllgor addysg De Morgannwg yn yr 1980s when Coleg Glan Hafren was 1980au pan sefydlwyd Coleg Glan Hafren fel established as the first further education y coleg addysg bellach cyntaf yng college in Cardiff. Nghaerdydd.

Ann Jones: You were a mere boy. Ann Jones: Megis bachgen ifanc oeddech [Laughter.] bryd hynny. [Chwerthin.]

Simon Thomas: You are not old enough, Simon Thomas: Nid ydych yn ddigon hen, Mark. [Laughter.] Mark. [Chwerthin.]

Mark Drakeford: I welcome the additional Mark Drakeford: Croesawaf y £10 miliwn £10 million that the Deputy Minister ychwanegol a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar gan announced recently as a boost to a new post- y Dirprwy Weinidog fel hwb i gampws 16 further education campus in Cardiff city addysg bellach ôl-16 newydd yng nghanol centre. Do you agree that this represents a dinas Caerdydd. A gytunwch fod hyn yn step-change in the nature of the offer that will newid sylweddol yn natur yr hyn a gynigir i be made to young people in Cardiff looking bobl ifanc yng Nghaerdydd sy‘n chwilio am for further education, and that the Welsh addysg bellach, a bod buddsoddiad Government investment has been pivotal in Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn greiddiol bringing that about? yn hynny o beth?

Leighton Andrews: I think that the Member Leighton Andrews: Credaf fod yr Aelod

3 07/11/2012 for Cardiff West has shocked other dros Orllewin Caerdydd wedi dychryn cyd- colleagues by admitting to such high office in Aelodau eraill drwy gyfaddef ei fod mewn his teens. [Laughter.] swydd mor uchel yn ystod ei arddegau. [Chwerthin.]

The investment is very good news for the Mae‘r buddsoddiad yn newyddion da iawn i‘r capital city. There has been a feeling for brifddinas. Bu teimlad ers sawl blwyddyn many years that there has been something of bod rhywfaint o fwlch yng nghanol y a hole at the centre of further education ddarpariaeth addysg bellach yng provision in Cardiff. This will add to the Nghaerdydd. Bydd hyn yn ychwanegu at quality of provision available to young ansawdd y ddarpariaeth sydd ar gael i bobl people post 16 and it is a good development ifanc ôl-16 ac mae‘n ddatblygiad da o‘i if considered alongside investments that I am ystyried ochr yn ochr â buddsoddiadau a sure will be made over time in the post-16 gaiff eu gwneud, rwy‘n siŵr, dros gyfnod provision in the Cardiff school system. o amser yn narpariaeth ôl-16 system ysgolion Caerdydd.

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. R.T. Davies): The Member for Cardiff West Davies): Crybwyllodd yr Aelod dros touched on the offer for post-16 education in Orllewin Caerdydd y cynnig o ran addysg ôl- FE colleges in Cardiff. Across South Wales 16 mewn colegau AB yng Nghaerdydd. Central, it is important that there is an offer Ledled Canol De Cymru, mae‘n bwysig bod and a genuine choice. Do you support sixth- cynnig a dewis go iawn. A ydych o blaid form provision in our secondary schools in darpariaeth chweched dosbarth yn ein the form of A-levels, so that when students hysgolion uwchradd ar ffurf cymwysterau make their choice, they can do so based on Safon Uwch, er mwyn sicrhau pan fydd the information provided to them and the myfyrwyr yn gwneud eu dewis, y gallant possibility within their catchment area of wneud hynny yn seiliedig ar y wybodaeth a staying in their secondary school or going to roddir iddynt a‘r posibilrwydd o fewn eu an FE college to study for their A-levels? dalgylch o aros yn eu hysgol uwchradd neu fynd i goleg AB i astudio ar gyfer eu cymwysterau Safon Uwch?

Leighton Andrews: It is important that Leighton Andrews: Mae‘n bwysig bod y young people have available the post-16 ddarpariaeth ôl-16 sy‘n berthnasol i‘w provision that is relevant to their needs. That hanghenion ar gael i bobl ifanc. Gallai hynny may well be through further education fod drwy golegau addysg bellach neu gallai colleges or it may well be through sixth fod drwy ddarpariaeth chweched dosbarth. forms. That will vary, I suspect, depending Bydd hynny‘n amrywio, fe dybiaf, yn ôl y on the provision available in different ddarpariaeth sydd ar gael mewn sefydliadau institutions. If what you are seeking is a gwahanol. Os ydych am gael ymrwymiad o commitment in terms of sixth forms, while ran darpariaeth chweched dosbarth, er ein we believe that local authorities must work bod o‘r farn bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol with further education colleges to ensure that weithio gyda cholegau addysg bellach i there is no unnecessary duplication, we have sicrhau nad oes unrhyw ddyblygu diangen, no central plans to eliminate sixth forms. nid oes gennym unrhyw gynlluniau canolog i ddileu‘r ddarpariaeth chweched dosbarth.

Julie Morgan: A few weeks ago, I was Julie Morgan: Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, delighted to attend the annual awards of the roedd yn bleser gennyf fynd i ddigwyddiad Cardiff and Vale College, which was an gwobrwyo blynyddol Coleg Caerdydd a‘r exciting occasion. Is there anything that the Fro, a oedd yn achlysur cyffrous. A oes Minister could do about the stereotyping of unrhyw beth y gallai‘r Gweinidog ei wneud subjects that takes place in all further am y ffordd y caiff pynciau eu stereoteipio

4 07/11/2012 education colleges, in particular regarding ymhob coleg addysg bellach, yn arbennig o apprenticeships, where men do engineering ran prentisiaethau, lle mae dynion yn gwneud and women do hairdressing, which leads to a peirianneg a menywod yn trin gwallt, sy‘n pattern throughout life? arwain at batrwm gydol oes?

Leighton Andrews: The point you make is a Leighton Andrews: Mae eich pwynt yn un very good one. My colleague the Deputy da iawn. Llwyddodd fy nghyd-Aelod, y Minister for Skills has been able to highlight Dirprwy Weinidog Sgiliau i dynnu sylw at a number of examples where young women nifer o enghreifftiau lle mae merched ifanc have been involved in construction or wedi bod yn ymwneud ag adeiladu neu engineering, and given clear signals that there beirianneg, ac wedi cael arwyddion clir bod are strong role models in these fields; it is modelau rôl cryf yn y meysydd hyn; mae‘n clear that we want to develop those amlwg ein bod am ddatblygu‘r cyfleoedd opportunities. In the context of the new hynny. Yng nghyd-destun y cyfleusterau facilities that will be available in Cardiff, newydd a fydd ar gael yng Nghaerdydd, gan with proper co-operation with the secondary gydweithredu‘n briodol â‘r ysgolion schools, there is good scope for expanding uwchradd, mae cyfle da i wella‘r the awareness of what can be achieved on a ymwybyddiaeth o‘r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni non-gender-specific basis. ar sail nad yw‘n rhyw-benodol.

Addysg Uwch Higher Education

2. Mohammad Asghar: A wnaiff y 2. Mohammad Asghar: Will the Minister Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am provide an update on plans to reconfigure gynlluniau i ad-drefnu Addysg Uwch yn ne Higher Education in south east Wales. ddwyrain Cymru. OAQ(4)0191(ESK) OAQ(4)0191(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: I made a statement Leighton Andrews: Gwneuthum ddatganiad yesterday on higher education ddoe ar ad-drefnu addysg uwch yn ne- reconfiguration in south-east Wales. ddwyrain Cymru.

Mohammad Asghar: In view of your Mohammad Asghar: O ystyried eich statement yesterday, backing down on plans datganiad ddoe, a oedd yn cefnu ar to enforce the merger of the University of gynlluniau i orfodi Prifysgol Morgannwg a Glamorgan and the University of Wales, Phrifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd i uno â Newport with Cardiff Metropolitan Phrifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd—am y tro, University—for the time being, at least—will o leiaf—a wnaiff y Gweinidog yn awr the Minister now publish the costed business gyhoeddi‘r achos busnes wedi‘i gostio a oedd case in support of the original three-way yn ategu‘r cynnig gwreiddiol i uno‘r tri merger, which Barbara Wilding believes was sefydliad, a oedd, ym marn Barbara Wilding, legally and financially flawed? yn ddiffygiol yn gyfreithiol ac yn ariannol?

Leighton Andrews: I am delighted with the Leighton Andrews: Rwy‘n falch iawn progress that is being made by the University gyda‘r cynnydd sy‘n cael ei wneud gan of Glamorgan and the University of Wales, Brifysgol Morgannwg a Phrifysgol Cymru, Newport in their merger talks. This is Casnewydd yn eu trafodaethau uno. Mae hyn excellent news for the staff and students at yn newyddion gwych i staff a myfyrwyr y those institutions, and for future students of sefydliadau hynny, ac i fyfyrwyr y those institutions. In respect of the business sefydliadau hynny yn y dyfodol. O ran yr case, we were developing a business case on achos busnes, rydym yn datblygu achos the basis of the Treasury five-case model. busnes ar sail model pump achos y Trysorlys. That involved, in the first stage, the Roedd hynny, yn ystod y cam cyntaf, yn publication of a strategic outline case, which cynnwys cyhoeddi achos amlinellol strategol, we published. I am sorry that the chair of a gyhoeddwyd gennym. Mae‘n ddrwg gennyf Cardiff Metropolitan University has not nad yw cadeirydd Prifysgol Fetropolitan

5 07/11/2012 understood the process. Caerdydd wedi deall y broses.

Julie Morgan: Following the announcement Julie Morgan: Yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad ddoe, yesterday, and the welcome go ahead for a a‘r caniatâd a roddwyd ac a groesawyd i business plan to be made between Newport brifysgolion Casnewydd a Morgannwg lunio and Glamorgan universities, concern has cynllun busnes ar y cyd, mynegwyd pryder been expressed about the financial future for am ddyfodol ariannol Prifysgol Fetropolitan Cardiff Met. As many of the students come Caerdydd. Gan fod llawer o‘r myfyrwyr yn from my constituency of Cardiff North—and dod o‘m hetholaeth, sef Gogledd Caerdydd— I must declare an interest, as my a rhaid imi ddatgan buddiant, gan fod fy granddaughter attends Cardiff Met—what wyres yn mynd i Brifysgol Fetropolitan reassurance can the Minister give to those Caerdydd—pa sicrwydd y gall y Gweinidog students that the decisions that have been ei roi i‘r myfyrwyr hynny na fydd y made by the governing body will not penderfyniadau a wnaed gan y corff jeopardise their educational chances? llywodraethu yn rhoi eu cyfleoedd addysgol yn y fantol?

Leighton Andrews: Questions about the Leighton Andrews: Dylid cyfeirio unrhyw decisions taken by the governing body of gwestiynau am y penderfyniadau a wnaed Cardiff Metropolitan University should be gan gorff llywodraethu Prifysgol Fetropolitan addressed to the governing body of Cardiff Caerdydd at gorff llywodraethu Prifysgol Metropolitan University. Cardiff Fetropolitan Caerdydd. Mae Prifysgol Metropolitan University is now largely Fetropolitan Caerdydd yn awr i raddau marginal to the Welsh Government‘s higher helaeth ar gyrion strategaeth addysg uwch education strategy. We will not be wasting Llywodraeth Cymru. Ni fyddwn yn time, energy and resources on institutions gwastraffu amser, egni nac adnoddau ar that are marginal to our higher education sefydliadau sydd ar gyrion ein strategaeth strategy. addysg uwch.

Jocelyn Davies: I would like to put on record Jocelyn Davies: Hoffwn gofnodi bod fy that my daughter is currently a student at merch ar hyn o bryd yn fyfyrwraig ym Cardiff Met. Following your July Mhrifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd. Yn dilyn announcement on the future of HE funding eich cyhoeddiad ym mis Gorffennaf ar post 2015, and your statement yesterday, as ddyfodol cyllido AU ar ôl 2015, a‘ch well as what you have just said, will you datganiad ddoe, yn ogystal â‘r hyn rydych clarify whether Cardiff Met will still be able newydd ei ddweud, a wnewch chi egluro a to access funding from the Higher Education fydd Prifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd yn Funding Council for Wales into the future? parhau i allu cael cyllid gan Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru yn y dyfodol?

Leighton Andrews: Decisions on funding by Leighton Andrews: Mater i Gyngor Cyllido the Higher Education Funding Council for Addysg Uwch Cymru ei hun yw Wales are a matter for HEFCW itself. penderfyniadau ar gyllido gan CCAUC.

The Presiding Officer: Question 3, Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 3, OAQ(4)0195(ESK), is withdrawn. OAQ(4)0195(ESK), yn ôl.

Adeiladau Ysgolion School Buildings

4. Peter Black: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r 4. Peter Black: Will the Minister provide an wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ei gynlluniau i update on his plans to invest in upgrading fuddsoddi mewn uwchraddio a gwella and improving school buildings. adeiladau ysgolion. OAQ(4)0196(ESK) OAQ(4)0196(ESK)

6 07/11/2012

Leighton Andrews: In December 2011, I Leighton Andrews: Ym mis Rhagfyr 2011, announced an investment of £700 million cyhoeddais fuddsoddiad o £700 miliwn dros over the next seven years to support the y saith mlynedd nesaf i ategu‘r broses o roi delivery of the twenty-first century schools rhaglen ysgolion ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar programme. A further £15 million of hugain ar waith. Llwyddwyd i sicrhau investment for the programme has been buddsoddiad o £15 miliwn ychwanegol ar secured through the Welsh infrastructure gyfer y rhaglen drwy gynllun buddsoddi yn investment plan, which will allow the seilwaith Cymru, a fydd yn caniatáu i acceleration of priority projects. brosiectau blaenoriaeth gael eu rhoi ar waith yn gyflymach.

Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Peter Black: Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Minister. As you know, there is a fairly big Weinidog. Fel y gwyddoch, mae asbestos controversy about asbestos in schools. Could mewn ysgolion yn bwnc llosg. A allech roi‘r you give an update on the current situation, wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y sefyllfa with regard to your own investigations into bresennol, o ran eich ymchwiliadau eich hun that matter and how it impacts on this i‘r mater hwnnw a sut y mae‘n effeithio ar y programme? rhaglen hon?

Leighton Andrews: We have received Leighton Andrews: Rydym wedi cael responses from all local authorities in respect ymatebion gan bob awdurdod lleol mewn of asbestos. Rather than trying to give a perthynas ag asbestos. Yn hytrach na cheisio complex answer here as to the position across rhoi ateb cymhleth o ran y sefyllfa ledled Wales, I will seek to publish a written Cymru, anelaf at gyhoeddi datganiad statement on the basis of those responses that ysgrifenedig ar sail yr ymatebion hynny a we have received. I will be happy to take gawsom. Byddaf yn fwy na pharod i dderbyn further questions from Members on that. cwestiynau pellach gan Aelodau ar hynny.

Mike Hedges: Does the Minister share my Mike Hedges: A yw‘r Gweinidog yn rhannu concern about the way some school fy mhryder o ran y ffordd y mae adeiladau buildings, such as Manselton Primary School rhai ysgolion, megis Ysgol Gynradd in my constituency, have been left to Manselton yn fy etholaeth, wedi cael eu deteriorate under the neglect of the previous gadael i ddirywio o dan esgeulustod City and County of Swansea council gweinyddiaeth cyngor blaenorol Dinas a Sir administration? Furthermore, does he agree Abertawe? At hynny, a yw‘n cytuno â mi, lle with me that, where it is economically y bo‘n economaidd ddichonadwy, y dylid feasible, nineteenth century schools should be adnewyddu ysgolion y bedwaredd ganrif ar renovated, rather than just left? bymtheg, yn hytrach na‘u gadael?

Leighton Andrews: As the Member for Leighton Andrews: Fel y bydd yr Aelod Swansea East will understand, last December dros Ddwyrain Abertawe yn deall, fis we announced approval of Swansea‘s first Rhagfyr diwethaf cymeradwywyd ton gyntaf wave of £51 million of investment in its buddsoddiad gwerth £51 miliwn gan schools. As part of the first wave of Abertawe yn ei ysgolion. Fel rhan o don investment in my twenty-first century schools gyntaf y buddsoddiad yn fy rhaglen ysgolion programme, I understand that replacement ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, rwyf ar schools have been identified already, with ddeall bod ysgolion newydd eisoes wedi‘u some priority projects. In addition to the £15 nodi, gyda rhai prosiectau blaenoriaeth. Yn million that was recently announced by the ychwanegol at y £15 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd Minister for Finance to support early priority yn ddiweddar gan y Gweinidog Cyllid i projects, I want to deploy my own capital gefnogi prosiectau blaenoriaeth cynnar, rwyf budget next year to support other priority am ddefnyddio fy nghyllideb gyfalaf fy hun y projects where capital investment is much flwyddyn nesaf i gefnogi prosiectau needed to address the poor condition of blaenoriaeth eraill lle mae angen dirfawr am school buildings. Therefore, I would

7 07/11/2012 welcome further conversations with the fuddsoddiad cyfalaf i ymdrin â chyflwr gwael Member to discuss projects in his own adeiladau ysgolion. Felly, byddwn yn constituency in that context. croesawu sgyrsiau pellach gyda‘r Aelod i drafod prosiectau yn ei etholaeth ei hun yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.

Russell George: Minister, the standard of Russell George: Weinidog, mae safon school toilets has been a long-term problem toiledau mewn ysgolion wedi bod yn broblem in Welsh schools. The Children‘s hirdymor yn ysgolion Cymru. Mae Commissioner for Wales, Keith Towler, has Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, Keith Towler, repeatedly raised this issue. Earlier this year, wedi codi‘r mater hwn droeon. Yn gynharach we saw the publication of best practice non- eleni, cyhoeddwyd canllawiau arfer gorau statutory guidance for school toilets in anstatudol ar gyfer toiledau mewn ysgolion primary and secondary schools, and that was cynradd ac uwchradd, ac roedd hynny i‘w a welcome step. Can you provide us with an groesawu. A allwch roi‘r wybodaeth update on what you are doing, working with ddiweddaraf inni am yr hyn rydych yn ei local authorities, school governors and wneud, gan weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol, headteachers, to ensure the widespread llywodraethwyr ysgolion a phenaethiaid, i implementation of that guidance? I am sure sicrhau bod y canllawiau hynny yn cael eu that you will agree that good access and well- rhoi ar waith yn gyffredinol? Rwy‘n siŵr y maintained school toilets is a very important byddwch yn cytuno bod mynediad da a issue. sicrhau bod toiledau mewn ysgolion yn cael eu cynnal a‘u cadw‘n briodol yn fater pwysig iawn.

Leighton Andrews: It is an important issue Leighton Andrews: Mae‘n fater pwysig ac and it is often one of the biggest issues that mae‘n aml yn un o‘r materion mwyaf a godir young people themselves raise through their gan bobl ifanc eu hunain drwy gyfarfodydd school council meetings, whether in primary cyngor yr ysgol, boed hynny mewn ysgolion or secondary schools. The Member is right to cynradd neu uwchradd. Mae‘r Aelod yn say that the children‘s commissioner has llygad ei le wrth ddweud bod y comisiynydd highlighted this issue. We publish the plant wedi tynnu sylw at y mater hwn. Ni guidance, and it is now down to local sy‘n cyhoeddi‘r canllawiau, a chyfrifoldeb authorities to ensure that they are compliant awdurdodau lleol yw sicrhau eu bod yn in following that guidance and implementing cydymffurfio drwy ddilyn y canllawiau whatever changes may be necessary. hynny a rhoi pa bynnag newidiadau sydd eu hangen ar waith.

Christine Chapman: I recently attended the Christine Chapman: Yn ddiweddar, euthum topping out ceremony of the new £11.5 i seremoni cwblhau Ysgol Gynradd million Abercynon Community Primary Gymunedol newydd Abercynon, a oedd yn School, which is a very welcome investment brosiect gwerth £11.5 miliwn, sy‘n in the future education of children from the fuddsoddiad i‘w groesawu‘n fawr yn addysg local community. Do you agree that it is plant o‘r gymuned leol yn y dyfodol. A critical that we provide our children with gytunwch ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn inspirational and aspirational learning darparu amgylcheddau dysgu ysbrydoledig ac environments? That being the case, will you uchelgeisiol i‘n plant? Os felly, a fyddwch yn continue to invest in our Welsh schools, parhau i fuddsoddi yn ein hysgolion yng which is an approach that stands in sharp Nghymru, sy‘n ymagwedd gwbl groes i contrast to the short-sightedness of the UK ddiffyg gweledigaeth Llywodraeth y DU? Government?

Leighton Andrews: As my colleague the Leighton Andrews: Fel y bydd fy nghyd- Member for Cynon Valley will be well Aelod dros Gwm Cynon yn ymwybodol, mae aware, the UK Government has cut our own Llywodraeth y DU wedi torri ein cyllidebau

8 07/11/2012 capital budgets very significantly, by around cyfalaf yn sylweddol iawn, o tua 40% dros 40% over the period of this comprehensive gyfnod yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr hwn o spending review. However, there has been no wariant. Fodd bynnag, ni fu terfyn ar stopping of investment in schools here in fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion yma yng Wales. We have ensured that all funding Nghymru. Rydym wedi sicrhau yr commitments have been honoured, such as anrhydeddwyd yr holl ymrwymiadau cyllido, the investment in Abercynon, and we have megis y buddsoddiad yn Abercynon, ac provided surety of a long-term capital rydym wedi rhoi sicrwydd drwy raglen programme for the first wave of investment gyfalaf hirdymor ar gyfer y don gyntaf o in twenty-first century schools, which I fuddsoddiad mewn ysgolion ar gyfer yr unfed announced last December. That means that ganrif ar hugain, a gyhoeddais fis Rhagfyr all 22 local authorities will receive a portion diwethaf. Mae hynny‘n golygu y bydd pob un of Welsh Government grant support of some o‘r 22 awdurdod lleol yn cael cyfran o £700 million in that first wave of investment. gymorth grant Llywodraeth Cymru, sy‘n I have asked my officials to work closely werth tua £700 miliwn fel rhan o‘r don gyntaf with local authorities to identify projects that honno o fuddsoddiad. Rwyf wedi gofyn i‘m can be accelerated earlier than planned and, swyddogion weithio‘n agos ag awdurdodau as a result, funding of some additional £15 lleol i nodi prosiectau y gellir eu rhoi ar waith million has been secured to support priority yn gynt na‘r disgwyl ac, o ganlyniad, projects a year earlier than the original sicrhawyd tua £15 miliwn ychwanegol i programme start date. gefnogi prosiectau blaenoriaeth flwyddyn yn gynharach na dyddiad dechrau gwreiddiol y rhaglen.

Blaenoriaethau Priorities

5. Paul Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 5. Paul Davies: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am ei flaenoriaethau ar gyfer statement on his priorities for the remainder gweddill y Pedwerydd Cynulliad. of the Fourth Assembly. OAQ(4)0189(ESK) OAQ(4)0189(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: Mae fy mlaenoriaethau Leighton Andrews: My priorities for the ar gyfer gweddill tymor y Cynulliad hwn remainder of this Assembly term are set out wedi eu nodi yn y rhaglen lywodraethu. in the programme for government.

Paul Davies: Rwy‘n siŵr mai un o Paul Davies: I am sure that one of the flaenoriaethau‘r Gweinidog yw sicrhau bod y Minister‘s priorities is to ensure that the rhaglenni a‘r cyrsiau cywir yn cael eu correct programmes and courses are provided darparu yn ein hystafelloedd dosbarth. Bydd in our classrooms. The Minister will be aware y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o adroddiad of the recent report by Operation Tarian that diweddar Ymgyrch Tarian a ddaeth i‘r came to the conclusion that recreational drugs casgliad bod cyffuriau hamdden fel such as mephedrone are more than twice as mephedrone yn fwy na dwywaith mor common in Wales as they were 12 months gyffredin yng Nghymru o‘i gymharu â 12 mis ago, for example. Recently, I was contacted yn ôl, er enghraifft. Yn ddiweddar, cysylltodd by a constituent who is looking to introduce a etholwr â mi sy‘n edrych i gyflwyno rhaglen drug awareness programme in schools in ymwybyddiaeth cyffuriau i ysgolion yn sir Pembrokeshire, but unfortunately he cannot Benfro, ond yn anffodus ni all wneud hynny do that because of a lack of funding. Can the oherwydd diffyg ariannu. A all y Gweinidog Minister tell us which drug awareness ddweud wrthym ba raglenni ymwybyddiaeth programmes are currently being introduced in cyffuriau sydd, ar hyn o bryd, yn cael eu schools across Wales in order to educate cyflwyno i ysgolion ledled Cymru er mwyn pupils about the dangers and risks of taking addysgu disgyblion am beryglon a risgiau drugs? cymryd cyffuriau?

9 07/11/2012

Leighton Andrews: Rydym wedi cefnogi Leighton Andrews: We have supported rhaglenni gyda‘r heddlu yng Nghymru, i programmes with the police in Wales, to refer gyfeirio at y pwynt sy‘n cael ei wneud gan yr to the point being made by the Member. If he Aelod. Os oes problemau ganddo yn sir has encountered any problems in Benfro, rwy‘n awgrymu ei fod yn ysgrifennu Pembrokeshire, I suggest that he writes to me ataf a byddaf yn hapus i ystyried y pwnc. and I will be happy to consider the point.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A fyddech yn barod, Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Would you be o ran eich blaenoriaethau, i edrych ar willing, as regards your priorities, to consider sefyllfa‘r Gymraeg fel ail iaith fel pwnc o the position of Welsh as a second language as fewn y cwricwlwm? A ydych yn cytuno ei a subject within the curriculum? Do you bod yn annerbyniol bod disgyblion yn gallu agree that it is unacceptable that pupils are mynd drwy‘r ysgol uwchradd yn astudio‘r able to go through secondary school studying Gymraeg fel ail iaith heb sefyll arholiad, heb Welsh as a second language without having ennill unrhyw gymhwyster, a heb feithrin to sit an exam, without gaining a qualification fawr o sgiliau yn yr iaith neu fagu unrhyw and without developing language skills or hyder i‘w defnyddio? A wnewch ystyried ei any confidence in using the language? Will gosod fel pwnc craidd o fewn y cwricwlwm you consider making it a core subject within fel bod y buddsoddiad hwnnw yn sicrhau bod the curriculum so that that investment ensures disgyblion yn meddu sgiliau o ran y ddwy that pupils possess skills in both languages in iaith yng Nghymru? Wales?

Leighton Andrews: Rwyf yn barod wedi Leighton Andrews: I have already sefydlu grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i ystyried established a task and finish group to pwnc y Gymraeg fel ail iaith. Rwy‘n disgwyl consider the issue of Welsh as a second derbyn ei adroddiad y flwyddyn nesaf. language. I expect to receive its report next year.

1.45 p.m.

Aled Roberts: Minister, during your Aled Roberts: Weinidog, yn ystod eich evidence to the Children and Young People tystiolaeth i‘r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc ar Committee on 18 October, you outlined 18 Hydref, gwnaethoch amlinellu pryderon a concerns that you had about the quality of oedd gennych o ran ansawdd y cynlluniau spending plans that have been handed into gwariant a gyflwynwyd i‘r adran gan the department by local authorities and awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion o ran y grant schools with regard to the pupil deprivation amddifadedd disgyblion; nodwyd gennych eu grant; you referred to them as being ‗weak‘. bod yn ‗wan‘. A yw‘r consortia rhanbarthol Have the regional consortia carried out any wedi ymgymryd ag unrhyw waith i sicrhau quality assurance of the plans prior to their ansawdd y cynlluniau cyn eu cyflwyno ac a submission and are you now satisfied with ydych yn awr yn fodlon ar safon y cynlluniau the standards of plans that have been received y mae eich adran wedi‘u derbyn? by your department?

Leighton Andrews: The Member is aware Leighton Andrews: Mae‘r Aelod yn that we were not satisfied with the plans that ymwybodol nad oeddem yn fodlon ar y were first submitted to us. I am not sure that I cynlluniau a gyflwynwyd inni gyntaf. Nid necessarily see it as a role for the regional wyf o reidrwydd yn cytuno mai rôl y consortia to get into the detail of the spending consortia rhanbarthol yw ystyried manylion y plans for the pupil deprivation grant. I would cynlluniau gwariant ar gyfer y grant expect local authorities to develop amddifadedd disgyblion. Byddwn yn disgwyl coherently, with their local schools, precisely i awdurdodau lleol ddatblygu sut yn union y how that money will be spent. As a local caiff yr arian hwnnw ei wario mewn ffordd Assembly Member, I have written to all the gydlynus, gyda‘u hysgolion lleol. Fel Aelod schools in my constituency to ask how they Cynulliad lleol, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at bob

10 07/11/2012 are now putting that money into operation. I ysgol yn fy etholaeth i ofyn sut y maent yn know that other Members have also done so, awr yn rhoi‘r arian hwnnw ar waith. Gwn fod including my colleague the Member for the Aelodau eraill hefyd wedi gwneud hynny, Vale of Clwyd, I think. So, I would gan gynnwys fy nghyd-Aelod, yr Aelod dros encourage Members to follow through Ddyffryn Clwyd, credaf. Felly, byddwn yn directly with schools to see how that money annog Aelodau i gysylltu‘n uniongyrchol ag is being spent, but we will obviously monitor ysgolion i weld sut mae‘r arian hwnnw yn the plans from local authorities. cael ei wario, ond byddwn yn amlwg yn monitro‘r cynlluniau gan awdurdodau lleol.

Aled Roberts: You will be aware of the Aled Roberts: Byddwch yn ymwybodol o‘r article in the Times Educational Supplement erthygl yn y Times Educational Supplement last week regarding problems and we have a yr wythnos diwethaf ynghylch problemau ac debate scheduled this afternoon on the rydym wedi trefnu dadl y prynhawn yma ar y regional consortia. Are you satisfied with the consortia rhanbarthol. A ydych yn fodlon ar y progress that has been made, given that they cynnydd a wnaed, o ystyried bod disgwyl were supposed to be effective from iddynt fod yn weithredol o fis Medi a‘i bod September and that it is quite clear that a yn gwbl amlwg bod nifer o swyddi o fewn number of posts within each consortium pob consortiwm yn parhau heb eu llenwi? remain unfilled?

Leighton Andrews: I am satisfied up to a Leighton Andrews: Rwy‘n fodlon i ryw point. However, these are consortia of local raddau. Fodd bynnag, consortia o authorities and it is for them to get it right. awdurdodau lleol ydynt a‘u cyfrifoldeb hwy yw gwneud pethau‘n iawn.

Angela Burns: Minister, you were talking Angela Burns: Weinidog, roeddech yn sôn about your future priorities and I know that am eich blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y dyfodol a you are looking at a Masters programme and gwn eich bod yn ystyried rhaglen Meistr a‘r at reviewing teacher training qualifications. posibilrwydd o adolygu cymwysterau Can you give us an idea as to whether you are hyfforddi athrawon. A allwch roi syniad inni looking in anyway now at how we might o ran pa un a ydych wrthi‘n ystyried mewn encourage more business people or people unrhyw ffordd sut y gallwn annog mwy o from other backgrounds into the teaching bobl fusnes neu bobl o gefndiroedd eraill i profession to bring their strengths to the ymuno â‘r proffesiwn addysgu er mwyn existing strengths in the profession, or will cyfuno eu cryfderau hwy â chryfderau you leave thoughts on that until a Masters presennol y proffesiwn, neu a fyddwch yn programme has been looked at? gadael y mater hwnnw hyd nes y byddwch wedi ystyried rhaglen Meistr?

Leighton Andrews: The Masters programme Leighton Andrews: Mae‘r rhaglen Meistr has been highly successful. There has been wedi bod yn hynod lwyddiannus. Bu huge enthusiasm for it. We have seen that brwdfrydedd mawr tuag ati. Rydym wedi from newly qualified teachers. We are seeing gweld hynny gan athrawon newydd mentors coming through to support them as gymhwyso. Rydym yn gweld mentoriaid yn well, and that is an important element. We dod i‘w cefnogi hefyd, ac mae hynny‘n elfen have also consulted on the qualifications bwysig. Rydym hefyd wedi ymgynghori ar y around literacy and numeracy for new cymwysterau sy‘n seiliedig ar lythrennedd a teachers and we are reviewing initial teacher rhifedd i athrawon newydd ac rydym yn training provision. We would certainly want adolygu‘r ddarpariaeth hyfforddiant to encourage people from all kinds of cychwynnol athrawon. Byddem yn sicr am backgrounds into teaching, including people annog pobl o bob math o gefndiroedd i from business, but also people from the ymuno â‘r proffesiwn addysgu, gan gynnwys armed forces and others who may wish to pobl o fyd busnes, ond hefyd pobl o‘r lluoedd make career changes. We are open to arfog a phobl eraill a allai fod yn awyddus i

11 07/11/2012 discussions on any suggestions Members newid gyrfa. Rydym yn ddigon parod i ni might have as to how we do that. drafod unrhyw awgrymiadau a allai fod gan yr Aelodau ynglŷn â sut y gellid gwneud hynny.

Angela Burns: Staying with the Masters Angela Burns: Gan aros gyda‘r rhaglen programme, do you have any views or have Meistr, a oes gennych unrhyw farn neu a you asked officials to look at what element or ydych wedi gofyn i swyddogion edrych ar ba weight might be given in the Masters elfen neu bwysau y gellid eu rhoi, fel rhan o‘r programme to ensuring that people who rhaglen Meistr, ar sicrhau bod gan bobl sy‘n undertake it have more experience in ei dilyn fwy o brofiad ym maes seicoleg, psychology, sociology, the managing of cymdeithaseg, rheoli ystafelloedd dosbarth classrooms and the ability to draw the best a‘r gallu i gael y gorau allan o blant a out of children and students? An awful lot of myfyrwyr? Mae cyfran helaeth o‘r bobl sy‘n people who go into teacher training are very ymgymryd â hyfforddiant athrawon yn ifanc young and, when they get to the Masters iawn a, phan fyddant ar y rhaglen Meistr, un programme, one of the big benefits would be o‘r buddiannau pennaf fyddai rhoi‘r cryfder to give them the strength and certainty that a‘r sicrwydd iddynt y gallant reoli ac annog they can control and encourage children in plant mewn niferoedd mawr. great numbers.

Leighton Andrews: I have explained in the Leighton Andrews: Rwyf wedi egluro yn y past that the elements within the Masters gorffennol bod yr elfennau o fewn y rhaglen programme are very much focused on Meistr yn canolbwyntio i raddau helaeth ar practical experience. They include such brofiad ymarferol. Maent yn cynnwys pethau things as literacy and numeracy, behaviour megis llythrennedd a rhifedd, rheoli management and identification of additional ymddygiad a nodi anghenion dysgu learning needs, which will include those ychwanegol, a fydd yn cynnwys y disgyblion pupils who are more gifted and talented. So, hynny sy‘n fwy abl a thalentog. Felly, all of those things to which the Member ymdrinnir â phob un o‘r pethau hynny y referred are addressed in the curriculum of cyfeiriodd yr Aelod atynt yng nghwricwlwm the Masters programme. y rhaglen Meistr.

Consortia Addysg Education Consortia

6. Lindsay Whittle: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r 6. Lindsay Whittle: What discussions has the Gweinidog wedi’u cael am gonsortia addysg Minister had with regard to education yn ne ddwyrain Cymru. OAQ(4)0194(ESK) consortia in south east Wales. OAQ(4)0194(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: My officials and I Leighton Andrews: Mae fy swyddogion a continue to engage with each consortium minnau‘n parhau i ymgysylltu â phob regularly on their plans to work consortiwm yn rheolaidd ar eu cynlluniau i collaboratively to raise education standards. gydweithredu er mwyn gwella safonau Progress is reported to me via my regular addysg. Caf adroddiadau ar gynnydd drwy fy meetings with the Welsh Local Government nghyfarfodydd rheolaidd gyda Chymdeithas Association and its education spokesperson. Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a‘i llefarydd addysg.

Lindsay Whittle: Minister, there have been Lindsay Whittle: Weinidog, bu rhai some problems with regard to proposed problemau o ran y consortia addysg education consortia, particularly with arfaethedig, yn enwedig gyda phrifysgolion universities in the south-east perhaps, but yn y de-ddwyrain o bosibl, ond yn ddiweddar recently problems have come to light at the daeth problemau i‘r amlwg ar lefel local authority level too. What actions have awdurdodau lleol hefyd. Pa gamau a

12 07/11/2012 you taken to try to rectify the problem of gymerwyd gennych i geisio datrys y broblem 2,400 laptops sitting unused at a significant bod 2,400 o liniaduron yn eistedd yn segur ar cost to the taxpayer? Why did you agree to gost sylweddol i‘r trethdalwr? Pam y part-fund the purchase of those laptops for gwnaethoch gytuno i ran-ariannu cost prynu‘r schools in the south-east when there were gliniaduron hynny i ysgolion yn y de- clearly not enough local authorities on board ddwyrain pan oedd yn amlwg nad oedd digon to participate? o awdurdodau lleol wedi ymrwymo i gymryd rhan?

Leighton Andrews: I do not think that the Leighton Andrews: Ni chredaf fod yr Aelod Member has quite got the situation right. An wedi llawn ddeall y sefyllfa. Cyflwynwyd initial proposal for funding was brought to us cynnig cychwynnol am arian ger ein bron ym in June 2010. The plan was eventually mis Mehefin 2010. Cymeradwywyd y approved in January 2011, with approval cynllun yn y pen draw ym mis Ionawr 2011, given to Torfaen in February. The original a rhoddwyd cymeradwyaeth i Dor-faen ym plan involved three local authorities, I think, mis Chwefror. Roedd y cynllun gwreiddiol but we were advised in August 2011 by yn cynnwys tri awdurdod lleol, credaf, ond Torfaen that Newport had withdrawn from fe‘n hysbyswyd ym mis Awst 2011 gan Dor- the project. There was an attempt faen fod Casnewydd wedi tynnu‘n ôl o‘r subsequently to engage another local prosiect. Ymdrechwyd wedi hynny i authority in that project. Those negotiations gynnwys awdurdod lleol arall yn y prosiect were quite advanced until a couple of months hwnnw. Roedd y trafodaethau hynny ar gam ago when the authority in question withdrew. cymharol ddatblygedig tan ychydig fisoedd We are now engaging actively with Torfaen yn ôl pan dynnodd yr awdurdod dan sylw yn in trying to ensure that those laptops are put ôl. Rydym bellach wrthi‘n ymgysylltu â to good use for young people. Thor-faen i geisio sicrhau bod defnydd da yn cael ei wneud o‘r gliniaduron ar gyfer pobl ifanc.

William Graham: The Minister will be well William Graham: Bydd y Gweinidog yn aware that the 2009 Programme for ymwybodol iawn bod canlyniadau Rhaglen International Student Assessment results Ryngwladol Asesu Myfyrwyr 2009 yn rhoi showed education in Wales in a very poor argraff wael iawn o addysg yng Nghymru. light. Estyn has yet to find an excellent Nid yw Estyn wedi llwyddo hyd yma i ddod authority in Wales. The first six reports o hyd i awdurdod ardderchog yng Nghymru. identified four authorities as satisfactory and Nododd y chwe adroddiad cyntaf fod pedwar placed two in special measures. How can the awdurdod yn foddhaol a gwnaed dau ohonynt Minister assure us that the new consortia are yn destun mesurau arbennig. Sut y gall y doing their best to ensure that secondary Gweinidog ein sicrhau bod y consortia schools are kept out of the lowest tier of his newydd yn gwneud eu gorau i sicrhau na own Government‘s banding system? fydd ysgolion uwchradd yn cael eu rhoi yn haen isaf system fandio ei Lywodraeth ef ei hun?

Leighton Andrews: We invested in schools Leighton Andrews: Rydym yn buddsoddi in bands 4 and 5 and we are currently looking mewn ysgolion sydd ym mandiau 4 a 5 ac at the summer results to see what the impact rydym yn ystyried canlyniadau‘r haf ar hyn o of that investment has been. Early indications bryd er mwyn canfod effaith y buddsoddiad are that there has been progress among a hwnnw. Dengys arwyddion cynnar y bu significant proportion of schools in bands 4 cynnydd ymhlith cyfran sylweddol o and 5 in relation to their results. ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5 mewn perthynas â‘u canlyniadau.

Hyfforddi Llywodraethwyr Ysgol School Governor Training

13 07/11/2012

7. Lindsay Whittle: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r 7. Lindsay Whittle: What discussions has the Gweinidog wedi’u cael ynghylch hyfforddi Minister had regarding the training of school llywodraethwyr ysgol yn Nhorfaen. governors in Torfaen. OAQ(4)0193(ESK) OAQ(4)0193(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: We have established Leighton Andrews: Rydym wedi sefydlu stakeholder groups to discuss the scope and grwpiau rhanddeiliaid i drafod cwmpas a content of the new mandatory training chynnwys y darpariaethau hyfforddiant provisions I am bringing into force. The gorfodol newydd yr wyf yn eu rhoi ar waith. governor support officer from Torfaen was a Roedd swyddog cymorth i lywodraethwyr member of one of the groups. Tor-faen yn aelod o un o‘r grwpiau.

Lindsay Whittle: The consultation on the Lindsay Whittle: Daeth yr ymgynghoriad ar compulsory training of school governors hyfforddiant gorfodol i lywodraethwyr ysgol closed on 10 July. Certain training is now i ben ar 10 Gorffennaf. Mae elfennau mandatory and the Party of Wales welcomes hyfforddiant penodol bellach yn orfodol ac the Welsh Government‘s proposals because mae Plaid Cymru yn croesawu cynigion the training will give school governors in Llywodraeth Cymru gan y bydd yr Torfaen the skills, knowledge and confidence hyfforddiant yn rhoi‘r sgiliau, y wybodaeth that they need to carry out this very important a‘r hyder sydd eu hangen ar lywodraethwyr job. It is stated on the Welsh Government ysgol yn Nhor-faen i gyflawni‘r gwaith website that: pwysig iawn hwn. Nodir ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru:

‗Subject to the outcome of the consultation it ‗Yn amodol ar ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad, y is proposed that the regulations will come gobaith yw y daw‘r rheoliadau i rym ym mis into force in October 2012.‘ Hydref 2012.‘

Minister, when will you be publishing the Weinidog, pryd y byddwch yn cyhoeddi outcome of the consultation? canlyniad yr ymgynghoriad?

Leighton Andrews: The Member will be Leighton Andrews: Bydd yr Aelod yn aware that during the course of the One ymwybodol inni gyflwyno Mesur Addysg Wales Government we put the Education (Cymru) 2011 fel rhan o Lywodraeth (Wales) Measure 2011 through, which Cymru‘n Un, a oedd yn caniatáu inni allowed us to introduce the regulations for gyflwyno‘r rheoliadau ar gyfer hyfforddiant mandatory training for governors on certain gorfodol i lywodraethwyr ar bynciau topics. Several local authorities already penodol. Mae gan sawl awdurdod lleol broses operate a process of providing training for ar waith eisoes lle y darperir hyfforddiant i governors, but I will ensure that the full lywodraethwyr, ond byddaf yn sicrhau bod results of the consultation are available to canlyniadau llawn yr ymgynghoriad ar gael Members. i‘r Aelodau.

Mohammad Asghar: Minister, I think that Mohammad Asghar: Weinidog, credaf eich you have already partly answered my bod eisoes wedi ateb fy nghwestiwn yn question. However, with regard to Fairwater rhannol. Fodd bynnag, o ran Ysgol Uwchradd High School in Cwmbran, Torfaen County Fairwater yng Nghwmbrân, gwnaeth Cyngor Borough Council initially applied to remove Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen gais yn wreiddiol i the school governing body and subsequently ddiddymu corff llywodraethu‘r ysgol ond withdrew the application, which tynnwyd y cais hwnnw yn ôl, sy‘n dangos demonstrates the importance of training to pwysigrwydd hyfforddiant er mwyn sicrhau provide governors with a clear understanding bod gan lywodraethwyr ddealltwriaeth glir of their role and responsibilities. What is the o‘u rôl a‘u cyfrifoldebau. Beth mae‘r Minister doing to ensure that high standards Gweinidog yn ei wneud i sicrhau y caiff of training for school governors are safonau uchel eu cynnal o ran hyfforddiant i

14 07/11/2012 maintained across local authorities in Wales lywodraethwyr ysgol ymhob awdurdod lleol to deliver consistent, efficient and effective yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau y caiff school governance? ysgolion eu llywodraethu mewn ffordd gyson, effeithlon ac effeithiol?

Leighton Andrews: Llywydd, I answered Leighton Andrews: Lywydd, atebais y that question in my previous answer. cwestiwn hwnnw yn fy ateb blaenorol.

Rheoleiddwyr Arholiadau Exam Regulators

8. Simon Thomas: Pa drafodaethau 8. Simon Thomas: What recent discussions diweddar y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’u has the Welsh Government had with exam cael gyda rheoleiddwyr arholiadau. regulators. OAQ(4)0200(ESK) OAQ(4)0200(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: Mae swyddogion Leighton Andrews: Welsh Government Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnal trafodaethau officials have regular discussions with rheolaidd gydag Ofqual, Cyngor y Ofqual, the Council for the Curriculum, Cwricwlwm, Arholiadau ac Asesu, ac Examinations and Assessment, and the Awdurdod Cymwysterau‘r Alban—y Scottish Qualifications Authority—the rheoleiddwyr arholiadau yn Lloegr, Gogledd examinations regulators in England, Northern Iwerddon a‘r Alban. Mae‘r trafodaethau hyn Ireland and Scotland. Discussions cover a yn cwmpasu amrywiaeth o faterion yn range of qualifications issues. ymwneud â chymwysterau.

Simon Thomas: Minister, on 29 August Simon Thomas: Weinidog, ar 29 Awst 2012, 2012 your director of education wrote to the ysgrifennodd eich cyfarwyddwr addysg at y exam regulator in England, Ofqual, stating rheoleiddiwr arholiadau yn Lloegr, Ofqual, explicitly that it was agreed that, for GCSE gan ddatgan yn eglur, ar gyfer TGAU English and English language only, WJEC Saesneg a Saesneg iaith yn unig, y cytunwyd would report against the key stage 2 y byddai CBAC yn adrodd yn erbyn predictors. This decision is the decision you rhagfynegyddion cyfnod allweddol 2. described in a statement to this Chamber as Dyma‘r penderfyniad a ddisgrifiwyd gennych failing the pupils of Wales. If, in a letter on mewn datganiad i‘r Siambr hon fel 29 August, your director can admit that this penderfyniad a oedd yn methu disgyblion decision was initially taken by your Cymru. Os gall eich cyfarwyddwr, mewn Government, why can you not admit it to the llythyr ar 29 Awst, gyfaddef mai eich Chamber? Llywodraeth chi a wnaeth y penderfyniad hwn i ddechrau, pam na allwch chi gyfaddef hynny i‘r Siambr?

Leighton Andrews: The Member, I am Leighton Andrews: Mae arnaf ofn fod yr afraid, is taking that out of context. We Aelod yn tynnu hynny allan o gyd-destun. published a full report, I would remind him, Hoffwn ei atgoffa ein bod wedi cyhoeddi on this issue on 10 September, and we adroddiad llawn ar y mater hwn ar 10 Medi, adopted an approach of the regrading of gan fabwysiadu dull gweithredu o ailraddio GCSE English language, which he supported. TGAU Saesneg iaith, a gefnogwyd ganddo. I will be giving evidence in full on this Byddaf yn rhoi tystiolaeth lawn ar y pwnc subject tomorrow to a committee of the hwn yfory i un o bwyllgorau‘r Cynulliad National Assembly, and I will give the full Cenedlaethol, a byddaf yn nodi cefndir llawn background to the entire issue. y mater cyfan.

Simon Thomas: I thank the Minister for his Simon Thomas: Diolch i‘r Gweinidog am ei reply. He will know that the e-mail trail and ateb. Bydd yn gwybod bod y llwybr e-bost the responses to freedom of information a‘r ymatebion i‘r ceisiadau rhyddid

15 07/11/2012 requests that I have received show clearly gwybodaeth a gefais yn dangos yn glir bod ei that his Government was in agreement with Lywodraeth wedi cytuno â safbwynt Ofqual o Ofqual‘s take on the GCSE up until it ran y TGAU hyd nes iddi benderfynu newid decided to revise that decision. I support that, y penderfyniad hwnnw. Rwy‘n cefnogi but I do not support the initial decision by his hynny, ond nid wyf yn cefnogi‘r department to agree with using key stage 2 penderfyniad cychwynnol gan ei adran i predictors. Further to that, where does this gytuno i ddefnyddio rhagfynegyddion cyfnod leave the qualifications system in Wales? On allweddol 2. At hynny, beth mae hyn yn ei 7 September the head of WJEC wrote to the olygu i‘r system cymwysterau yng Nghymru? Minister‘s department saying that Ar 7 Medi, ysgrifennodd pennaeth CBAC at implementing changes for Wales alone would adran y Gweinidog yn dweud y byddai rhoi create a split standard for WJEC‘s newidiadau ar waith i Gymru yn unig yn creu qualification that would seriously damage the safon ddeuran i gymhwyster CBAC a integrity of the qualification. As we now have fyddai‘n cael effaith andwyol ddifrifol ar that split standard, what is his view of the uniondeb y cymhwyster. Gan fod y safon integrity of the qualification in Wales? ddeuran honno bellach ar waith, beth yw ei farn am uniondeb y cymhwyster yng Nghymru?

Leighton Andrews: I regard the GCSE Leighton Andrews: Rwyf o‘r farn fod gan y qualification in Wales as having considerable cymhwyster TGAU yng Nghymru gryn integrity and I am glad that my colleague the uniondeb ac rwy‘n falch fod fy nghyd- Minister for education in Northern Ireland Weinidog, y Gweinidog Addysg yng regards GCSEs as having considerable Ngogledd Iwerddon, o‘r farn bod gan integrity and quality as well. I dispute the gymwysterau TGAU gryn uniondeb ac conclusion of the Member and tomorrow at ansawdd hefyd. Rwy‘n anghytuno â the committee I will give a full account, chasgliad yr Aelod ac yfory yn y pwyllgor, including the content of e-mails between my byddaf yn rhoi adroddiad llawn, gan department and Ofqual, of what was actually gynnwys yr hyn a nodwyd mewn negeseuon agreed. I am afraid the Member will have to e-bost rhwng fy adran ac Ofqual, o ran yr hyn wait until then, but he may be rather y cytunwyd arno mewn gwirionedd. Yn surprised by the outcome, because it will anffodus, bydd yn rhaid i‘r Aelod aros tan challenge to a degree what he has just said. hynny, ond efallai y caiff ei synnu braidd gan y canlyniad, gan y bydd yn herio i raddau yr hyn y mae newydd ei ddweud.

In respect of qualifications overall, he is well O ran cymwysterau yn gyffredinol, mae‘n aware that we have a qualifications review ymwybodol iawn bod adolygiad under way that is due to report at the end of cymwysterau yn mynd rhagddo ac y this month, and, when we receive that report, disgwylir i‘r adolygiad hwnnw gyflwyno we will decide how to take matters forward. adroddiad ddiwedd y mis, a, phan ddaw‘r adroddiad hwnnw i law, byddwn yn penderfynu sut i weithredu.

Cymraeg fel Ail Iaith Welsh as a Second Language

9. Simon Thomas: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 9. Simon Thomas: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am addysgu Cymraeg fel ail statement on the teaching of Welsh as a iaith. OAQ(4)0192(ESK) second language. OAQ(4)0192(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: Mae angen gwella Leighton Andrews: Standards of teaching safonau dysgu ac addysgu Cymraeg ail iaith. and learning in Welsh second language need Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddais gynllun i wella to improve. I recently announced a plan to safonau Cymraeg ail iaith ac mae‘r cynllun improve standards in Welsh as a second eisoes yn cael ei weithredu. Ymhlith camau language and the plan is being implemented.

16 07/11/2012 gweithredu eraill, mae‘r cynllun yn cynnwys Among other actions, the plan includes an adolygiad allanol o Gymraeg ail iaith yng external review of Welsh as a second nghyfnodau allweddol 3 a 4. language at key stages 3 and 4.

Simon Thomas: Hoffwn ddiolch i‘r Simon Thomas: I would like to thank the Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad. Fel rhywun Minister for his statement. As someone who sydd wedi dysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith—a has learned Welsh as a second language— chithau, Weinidog, yn croesi‘r bont o ran and you, Minister, are crossing the bridge in dysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith—rwy‘n terms of learning Welsh as a second croesawu‘r tasglu rydych wedi ei sefydlu a language—I welcome the taskforce that you chylch gorchwyl y tasglu hwnnw. Beth have established and the remit of that bynnag, fel dywedodd fy nghyfaill Rhodri taskforce. However, as my colleague Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn gynharach, mae cymaint o Glyn Thomas said a little earlier, there are so ddisgyblion yn dysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith many pupils learning Welsh as a second nad ydynt llwyddo magu sgiliau yn yr iaith o language who do not develop any skills in the gwbl. A allech chi roi eich bys ar y broblem language whatsoever. Can you put your yn y system ac esbonio pam rydym yn gwario finger on the problem here and explain to us cymaint o amser ac arian yn addysgu why we are spending so much time and Cymraeg fel ail iaith gyda chyn lleied o money teaching Welsh as a second language gynnydd ymysg disgyblion Cymru? with such little progress among Welsh pupils?

Leighton Andrews: Rydym wedi sefydlu Leighton Andrews: We have established a grŵp i edrych ar y mater. Y bore yma, group to look at the matter. This morning, I roeddwn yng nghyfarfod cyntaf y grŵp sy‘n attended the first meeting of the group that is fy nghynghori fel Gweinidog ar y strategaeth advising me as Minister on the Welsh- addysg trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac rwy‘n medium education strategy, and I am happy hapus i ddweud wrth Aelodau bod y to tell Members that the discussions started trafodaethau wedi dechrau‘n dda iawn, ac very well, and I am happy to meet with the rwy‘n hapus i gwrdd â‘r aelodau. Rwy‘n members. I hope that the task and finish gobeithio y bydd y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen group will make recommendations to yn gwneud argymhellion i wella‘r sefyllfa yn improve the situation in the near future. y dyfodol agos.

Suzy Davies: Like my colleagues, Minister, I Suzy Davies: Fel fy nghyd-Aelodau, have received concerns from a number of Weinidog, rwyf wedi derbyn pryderon gan sources about the effectiveness of the nifer o ffynonellau am effeithiolrwydd y teaching of Welsh as a second language, and broses o addysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith, ac yn in particular the short GCSE. We could be arbennig y cymwysterau TGAU byr. Gallem more ambitious for Welsh second language fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol o ran addysgu teaching if language learning could be Cymraeg ail iaith pe gellid cyflwyno‘r broses brought into children‘s comfort zone at a o ddysgu iaith i blant ar oedran iau o lawer much earlier age. Do you agree that primary gan sicrhau eu bod yn gyfforddus â‘r broses schools could reproduce for all children the honno. A gytunwch y gallai ysgolion cynradd advantage that children from multilingual atgynhyrchu‘r budd sydd eisoes gan blant o households, and not necessarily Welsh- gartrefi amlieithog, ac nid o reidrwydd speaking households, already have? aelwydydd Cymraeg, i bob plentyn?

2.00 p.m.

Leighton Andrews: I have said before in the Leighton Andrews: Rwyf wedi dweud o‘r Chamber that the issue that must be blaen yn y Siambr bod yn rhaid ystyried y considered is this: to expand the range of mater canlynol: er mwyn ehangu‘r foreign-language qualifications into primary amrywiaeth o gymwysterau ieithoedd tramor schools, you would have to tell me which i ysgolion cynradd, byddai‘n rhaid ichi

17 07/11/2012 priority languages you would seek to ddweud wrthyf pa ieithoedd blaenoriaeth y determine. It seems to me that the real issue byddech am eu cyflwyno. Ymddengys i mi would be the capacity to teach a wider range mai‘r broblem wirioneddol fyddai‘r capasiti i of languages in primary school, and that addysgu amrywiaeth ehangach o ieithoedd would require prioritisation. mewn ysgolion cynradd, a byddai angen blaenoriaethu hynny.

The Presiding Officer: Question 10, Y Llywydd: Trosglwyddwyd cwestiwn 10, OAQ(4)0199(ESK), has been transferred for OAQ(4)0199(ESK), i‘w ateb yn ysgrifenedig. written answer.

Asbestos mewn Adeiladau Ysgolion Asbestos in School Buildings

11. William Graham: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 11. William Graham: Will the Minister make ddatganiad am lefel yr asbestos mewn a statement on the level of asbestos in school adeiladau ysgol. OAQ(4)0198(ESK) buildings. OAQ(4)0198(ESK)

Leighton Andrews: I have asked all Leighton Andrews: Rwyf wedi gofyn i bob authorities to undertake a review of their awdurdod gynnal adolygiad o‘u cynlluniau a plans and submit their updated asbestos chyflwyno eu cynlluniau rheoli asbestos management plans to me. Responses show diweddaraf imi. Dengys yr ymatebion fod that local authorities are undertaking their awdurdodau lleol yn ymgymryd â‘u statutory duties appropriately and that there dyletswyddau statudol yn briodol a bod are robust procedures in place for the gweithdrefnau cadarn ar waith ar gyfer rheoli management of asbestos in school buildings. asbestos mewn adeiladau ysgolion.

William Graham: Thank you for your William Graham: Diolch ichi am yr ateb reassuring answer, Minister. Will you join me calonogol hwnnw, Weinidog. A ymunwch â in calling on the Welsh Government to mi i alw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi‘r support the Right to Know: Asbestos in ymgyrch Right to Know: Asbestos in Schools Schools Wales campaign, which is calling for Wales, sy‘n galw am sefydlu cronfa ddata the establishment of a voluntary online wirfoddol ar-lein i Gymru mewn perthynas school asbestos database for Wales? ag asbestos mewn ysgolion?

Leighton Andrews: What we first need to do Leighton Andrews: Yr hyn sydd angen inni is review in detail the responses received ei wneud yn gyntaf yw cynnal adolygiad from local authorities. There are some manwl o‘r ymatebion a gafwyd gan authorities that we feel we need to revisit to awdurdodau lleol. Mae rhai awdurdodau o‘r seek further information. We know that each farn bod angen inni ofyn am ragor o authority has an asbestos management plan in wybodaeth. Gwyddom fod gan bob awdurdod place and, as far as we can tell from the gynllun rheoli asbestos ar waith a, hyd y evidence so far submitted, there are gallwn ddweud o‘r dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd appropriate procedures in place in line with hyd yma, mae gweithdrefnau priodol ar waith current legislation. The plans also confirm yn unol â deddfwriaeth gyfredol. Mae‘r that there are strict guidelines in place to cynlluniau hefyd yn cadarnhau bod ensure adherence to existing legislation, canllawiau caeth ar waith i sicrhau y especially in relation to building repair and cydymffurfir â deddfwriaeth bresennol, yn maintenance works, and that appropriate enwedig o ran gwaith atgyweirio a chynnal a training is in place. As I said in answer to the chadw adeiladau, a bod hyfforddiant priodol Liberal Democrat Member for South Wales ar waith. Fel y dywedais wrth ateb yr Aelod West, I will be happy to publish a further o‘r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol dros Orllewin written statement to Members and to take De Cymru, byddwn yn fwy na pharod i further question in due course. gyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig pellach i Aelodau ac i ymateb i gwestiynau pellach maes o law.

18 07/11/2012

Mick Antoniw: The key issue that rises out Mick Antoniw: Y mater allweddol sy‘n of the asbestos regulations is really that of deillio o‘r rheoliadau asbestos mewn information and awareness. Will you make a gwirionedd yw gwybodaeth ac statement at some stage on how that ymwybyddiaeth. A wnewch ddatganiad information and awareness will be dealt with rywbryd ar sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru by the Welsh Government? yn ymdrin â‘r mater hwnnw o ran gwybodaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth?

Leighton Andrews: As my colleague, the Leighton Andrews: Fel y bydd fy nghyd- Member for Pontypridd, will appreciate, what Aelod, yr Aelod dros Bontypridd, yn is important is that the information be gwerthfawrogi, yr hyn sy‘n bwysig yw bod y provided in context. As Members will wybodaeth yn cael ei darparu yn ei gyd- appreciate, this is a subject that can raise destun. Fel y bydd yr Aelodau yn considerable concern at a local level, and it is gwerthfawrogi, gall y pwnc hwn beri cryn important that people understand that, bryder ar lefel leol, ac mae‘n bwysig bod managed safely, asbestos is not, in context, pobl yn deall nad yw asbestos, mewn cyd- necessarily a threat to health. The issue is destun, o‘i reoli yn ddiogel, o reidrwydd yn what happens in the context of repairs and fygythiad i iechyd. Y broblem yw beth sy‘n maintenance work, for example. We are digwydd yng nghyd-destun gwaith willing to take further steps with regard to atgyweirio a chynnal a chadw, er enghraifft. this issue, but we need to be careful about the Rydym yn barod i gymryd camau pellach way in which we communicate these issues mewn perthynas â‘r mater hwn, ond mae publicly. angen inni fod yn ofalus o ran sut y caiff y materion hyn eu cyfleu i‘r cyhoedd.

William Powell: Given the revelation that William Powell: O ystyried y datguddiad Caerphilly County Borough Council had mai dim ond arolygon gweledol o asbestos been conducting only visual surveys of roedd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili asbestos in its school buildings rather than wedi bod yn eu cynnal yn adeiladau ei full invasive surveys, how confident are you ysgolion yn hytrach nag arolygon mewnol that local authorities across Wales are llawn, pa mor hyderus ydych chi fod complying with the obligations of the Control awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru yn of Asbestos at Work Regulations 2002, cydymffurfio â rhwymedigaethau Rheoliadau which require such thorough surveys? Rheoli Asbestos yn y Gwaith 2002, sy‘n ei gwneud yn ofynnol cynnal arolygon trylwyr o‘r fath?

Leighton Andrews: As I said in answer to Leighton Andrews: Fel y dywedais mewn an earlier question, we have had the material ateb i gwestiwn cynharach, rydym wedi cael back and we are broadly confident—no, let y deunydd yn ôl ac rydym yn gymharol me put that a bit better: we are satisfied—that hyderus—na, gadewch imi gyfleu hynny local authorities are compliant. There are ychydig yn well: rydym yn fodlon—bod areas on which we would like to receive awdurdodau lleol yn cydymffurfio. Mae further information from one or two meysydd lle yr hoffem gael rhagor o authorities. We will follow up on that and, as wybodaeth gan un neu ddau awdurdod. I said, I will make a further statement to Byddwn yn mynd ar drywydd hynny ac, fel y Members. dywedais, byddaf yn gwneud datganiad arall i Aelodau.

Prentisiaethau (Gorllewin Cymru) Apprenticeships (West Wales)

12. Paul Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 12. Paul Davies: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am fynediad at brentisiaethau statement on access to apprenticeships in yng ngorllewin Cymru. OAQ(4)0190(ESK) west Wales. OAQ(4)0190(ESK)

19 07/11/2012

The Deputy Minister for Skills (Jeff Y Dirprwy Weinidog Sgiliau (Jeff Cuthbert): Thank you for that question. We Cuthbert): Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn invest approximately £90 million a year to hwnnw. Rydym yn buddsoddi tua £90 miliwn support Welsh businesses to take on y flwyddyn i helpu busnesau yng Nghymru i apprentices as part of our all-age programme. gyflogi prentisiaid fel rhan o‘n rhaglen pob West Wales has two work-based learning oed. Mae dau gonsortiwm dysgu seiliedig ar consortia, delivering 150 apprenticeship waith yng Ngorllewin Cymru, lle mae 150 o frameworks: Pathways to Apprenticeships is fframweithiau prentisiaeth ar waith: mae running in nine sectors, supporting 446 Llwybrau at Brentisiaethau ar waith mewn learners; and 29% of the Young Recruits naw sector, gan gefnogi 446 o ddysgwyr; ac programme support is in this region. mae 29% o gymorth y rhaglen Recriwtiaid Ifanc wedi‘i fuddsoddi yn y rhanbarth hwn.

Paul Davies: I am grateful to the Deputy Paul Davies: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar i‘r Dirprwy Minister for that answer. I am sure that he Weinidog am yr ateb hwnnw. Rwy‘n siŵr ei agrees with me that it is important that fod yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn bwysig bod apprenticeships be tailored to the needs of prentisiaethau yn cael eu teilwra i ddiwallu local industries. Given that Pembrokeshire is anghenion diwydiannau lleol. O ystyried bod now recognised as the energy capital of the Sir Benfro bellach yn cael ei chydnabod fel UK, it is vital for local apprenticeships to be prifddinas ynni‘r DU, mae‘n hanfodol bod available to equip young adults in the area prentisiaethau lleol ar gael i sicrhau bod with the necessary skills to enter that oedolion ifanc yn yr ardal yn meddu ar y workforce. Will the Deputy Minister outline sgiliau angenrheidiol i ymuno â‘r gweithlu what the Welsh Government is doing hwnnw. A wnaiff y Dirprwy Weinidog specifically to encourage local businesses to amlinellu‘r hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru offer apprenticeships, and what practical yn ei wneud yn benodol i annog busnesau work is being undertaken with small lleol i gynnig prentisiaethau, a pha waith businesses in particular in Pembrokeshire to ymarferol sy‘n mynd rhagddo gyda busnesau deliver more apprenticeships on the ground? bach yn arbennig yn Sir Benfro i ddarparu rhagor o brentisiaethau ar lawr gwlad?

Jeff Cuthbert: I agree with your basic Jeff Cuthbert: Cytunaf â‘ch senario scenario of the importance of sylfaenol o ran pwysigrwydd prentisiaethau, apprenticeships, both to the young person i‘r person ifanc dan sylw ac yn sicr i involved and certainly to businesses. To fusnesau. Er mwyn cefnogi busnesau llai, support smaller businesses, we provide the rydym yn cynnig y rhaglen Recriwtiaid Ifanc, Young Recruits programme, which provides sy‘n rhoi cymhorthdal cyflog o £50 yr a wage subsidy of £50 per week to businesses wythnos i fusnesau a all gyflogi prentisiaid that can take on additional apprentices, and ychwanegol, ac rydym hefyd yn cynnig y we also have the shared apprenticeship cynllun rhannu prentisiaeth, sy‘n galluogi scheme, which enables smaller businesses to busnesau llai i gydweithio er mwyn cynnig y collaborate in order to offer the full fframwaith llawn i bobl ifanc. framework to young people.

On the more general points, we will certainly O ran y pwyntiau mwy cyffredinol, byddwn be working with particular sector skills yn sicr yn gweithio gyda chynghorau sector councils, such as Semta in engineering and sgiliau penodol, fel Semta mewn peirianneg a Cogent in energy and life sciences, to ensure Cogent yn y gwyddorau ynni a bywyd, i that our offer in any particular part of Wales sicrhau bod yr hyn a gynigir gennym mewn is as relevant as it can be to the local unrhyw ran benodol o Gymru mor berthnasol economy. â phosibl i‘r economi leol.

Rebecca Evans: The Enterprise and Rebecca Evans: Clywodd y Pwyllgor

20 07/11/2012

Business Committee heard evidence from Menter a Busnes dystiolaeth gan bobl ifanc young people in Haverfordwest who said that yn Hwlffordd a ddywedodd fod cost, the cost, availability and timing of transport argaeledd ac amseroedd trafnidiaeth yn eu were barriers to their accessing hatal rhag ymgymryd â phrentisiaethau. A apprenticeships. Will you undertake to ymrwymwch i ystyried sut y gellir ymdrin â‘r explore with the Minister for transport how rhwystrau hyn gyda‘r Gweinidog these barriers can be addressed? Trafnidiaeth?

Jeff Cuthbert: All apprentices should have Jeff Cuthbert: Dylai fod gan bob prentis employed status, so transport should not be a statws cyflogedig, felly ni ddylai trafnidiaeth barrier to their being recruited into an eu hatal rhag cael eu recriwtio i brentisiaeth. apprenticeship. However, if there are Fodd bynnag, os oes problemau o ran cynnig problems delivering the apprenticeship y fframwaith prentisiaethau, a bod framework, where transport is an issue, we trafnidiaeth yn broblem, byddem yn sicr yn would certainly take that up. If you are aware ymchwilio i hynny. Os ydych yn ymwybodol of specific instances, it would be very helpful o achosion penodol, byddai‘n ddefnyddiol if you would write to me with those. iawn pe gallech ysgrifennu ataf gyda‘r rheini.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau Questions to the Minister for Local Government and Communities

The Presiding Officer: Question 1, Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 1, OAQ(4)0196(LGC), has been withdrawn. OAQ(4)0196(LGC), yn ôl.

Clystyrau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf Communities First Clusters

2. Mike Hedges: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r 2. Mike Hedges: Will the Minister provide an wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am greu clystyrau update on the creation of Communities First rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn ardal programme clusters in the Swansea area. Abertawe. OAQ(4)0198(LGC) OAQ(4)0198(LGC)

The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I thank the Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Diolch i‘r Member for Swansea East for his question. Aelod dros Ddwyrain Abertawe am ei The City and County of Swansea submitted gwestiwn. Cyflwynodd Dinas a Sir Abertawe applications for five Communities First geisiadau am bum clwstwr Cymunedau yn clusters. The applications are currently being Gyntaf. Mae‘r ceisiadau wrthi‘n cael eu assessed and I hope to take decisions shortly. hasesu ar hyn o bryd a‘r gobaith yw y gallaf wneud penderfyniadau yn fuan.

Mike Hedges: Thank you for your response, Mike Hedges: Diolch am eich ymateb, Minister. I would like to echo my support for Weinidog. Hoffwn adleisio fy nghefnogaeth the creation of Communities First clusters. It o blaid creu clystyrau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. is a direction that will improve Communities Mae‘n gyfeiriad a fydd yn gwella‘r First provision in the Swansea area as, I am ddarpariaeth Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn ardal sure, in the rest of Wales. Abertawe, felly hefyd, rwy‘n siŵr, yng ngweddill Cymru.

There are a number of people currently Mae nifer o bobl sydd wedi‘u cyflogi ar hyn employed who are under redundancy notices. o bryd sydd o dan hysbysiadau diswyddo. Pa What assurances can I give them, or what sicrwydd y gallaf ei roi iddynt, neu pa assurances can be given to them, that they sicrwydd y gellir ei roi iddynt, y byddant yn will know shortly whether they will be able gwybod yn fuan pa un a fyddant yn gallu

21 07/11/2012 to continue in employment? parhau i weithio?

Carl Sargeant: The applications have to be Carl Sargeant: Mae‘n rhaid ystyried y considered very carefully, and I have already ceisiadau yn ofalus iawn, ac rwyf eisoes wedi approved some funding streams for clusters cymeradwyo rhai ffrydiau cyllid ar gyfer across Wales. I will consider the question that clystyrau ledled Cymru. Ystyriaf y cwestiwn you raise. The most important part of the a godwyd gennych. Rhan bwysicaf y Communities First organisation is its staff. I sefydliad Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yw ei staff. recognise that, and I will take that into Rwy‘n cydnabod hynny, ac fe ystyriaf hynny consideration in making my decisions for the wrth wneud fy mhenderfyniadau ar gyfer y future. dyfodol.

Bil Teithio Llesol Active Travel Bill

3. Suzy Davies: Beth yw ymateb y Gweinidog 3. Suzy Davies: What is the Minister’s i’r sylwadau a gyflwynwyd gan Gomisiynydd response to the Children’s Commissioner for Plant Cymru i’r ymgynghoriad ar Fil Teithio Wales’ submission to the Active Travel Llesol (Cymru). OAQ(4)0199(LGC) (Wales) Bill consultation. OAQ(4)0199(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: All submissions in relation Carl Sargeant: Dadansoddwyd yr holl to the active travel White Paper have been gyflwyniadau mewn perthynas â‘r Papur analysed and the Welsh Government‘s Gwyn ar deithio llesol ac mae ymateb response is available on the website. Llywodraeth Cymru ar gael ar y wefan.

Suzy Davies: Thank you for that answer, Suzy Davies: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, because that response is also immediately oherwydd mae hefyd yn uniongyrchol relevant to the safety of routes to school. berthnasol i ddiogelwch llwybrau i‘r ysgol. Minister, local authorities are devising safe Weinidog, mae awdurdodau lleol yn llunio walking routes, based on new standard llwybrau cerdded diogel, yn seiliedig ar guidelines that still cite case law from the ganllawiau safonol newydd sy‘n dal i 1950s, but which fail to take into account the ddyfynnu cyfraith achosion o‘r 1950au, ond UN Convention on the Rights of the Child sy‘n methu ag ystyried Confensiwn y and the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau‘r Plentyn a 2008. Will you undertake to have a look at Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008. that, please, to ensure that both those A ymrwymwch i fwrw golwg ar hynny, os documents are taken into account, putting gwelwch yn dda, er mwyn sicrhau y caiff y child protection at the heart of safe routes to ddwy ddogfen honno eu hystyried, gan school? sicrhau bod amddiffyn plant wrth wraidd llwybrau diogel i‘r ysgol?

Carl Sargeant: Yes. Carl Sargeant: Gwnaf.

Julie Morgan: It is encouraging that there Julie Morgan: Mae‘r cynnydd yn nifer y has been a significant increase in Cardiff in plant sy‘n beicio i‘r ysgol yng Nghaerdydd the number of children who cycle to school. yn galonogol. Fel rhan o Ŵyl Beicio As part of the Cardiff Cycle Festival, Caerdydd, a drefnwyd ym mis Mehefin gan organised in June by Sustrans and Cardiff Sustrans a Chyngor Caerdydd, cynhaliwyd Council, there was a cycling to school her beicio i‘r ysgol, gydag Ysgol Gynradd challenge, and Gabalfa Primary School in my Gabalfa yn fy etholaeth i, sef Gogledd constituency of Cardiff North gained the top Caerdydd, yn fuddugol, gyda 23% o‘r results, with 23% of students cycling to disgyblion yn beicio i‘r ysgol bob dydd yn school every day during the festival. ystod yr ŵyl.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei sylw positive comment. I also wish to congratulate cadarnhaol. Hoffwn hefyd longyfarch Cyngor

22 07/11/2012

Cardiff Council and the other organisations Caerdydd a‘r sefydliadau eraill a fu‘n involved in that project. I have been out with ymwneud â‘r prosiect hwnnw. Rwyf wedi young people across Cardiff on the Bike It bod allan gyda phobl ifanc ledled Caerdydd scheme and on the walk-to-school events. I fel rhan o‘r cynllun Beiciwch Hi ac ar y thoroughly enjoyed it and would encourage digwyddiadau cerdded i‘r ysgol. Gwneuthum more authorities across Wales to contribute to fwynhau‘n arw a byddem yn annog mwy o this active travel debate. awdurdodau ledled Cymru i gyfrannu at y ddadl teithio llesol hon.

Rebecca Evans: In his response, the Rebecca Evans: Yn ei ymateb, mae Children‘s Commissioner for Wales calls for Comisiynydd Plant Cymru yn galw am the suitability of routes through communities asesiad o addasrwydd llwybrau drwy and to places of education and recreation to gymunedau ac i leoedd addysg a hamdden be subject to an assessment by children and gan blant a phobl ifanc er mwyn sicrhau eu young people to ensure that they feel bod yn teimlo‘n gyfforddus ac yn ddiogel ar comfortable and safe on the route. Minister, y llwybr. Weinidog, beth yw eich what is your vision for the role of children gweledigaeth ar gyfer rôl plant a phobl ifanc and young people in the development of safe yn y gwaith o ddatblygu llwybrau cerdded a walking and cycling routes? beicio diogel?

Carl Sargeant: Of course, new routes are Carl Sargeant: Wrth gwrs, caiff llwybrau designed and developed by people who build newydd eu cynllunio a‘u datblygu gan bobl roads, footpaths and cycle paths. It is really sy‘n adeiladu ffyrdd, llwybrau troed a important to have community engagement in llwybrau beicio. Mae‘n bwysig iawn these processes to enable those who we want ymgysylltu â chymunedau fel rhan o‘r to use the routes to do so because they are of prosesau hyn er mwyn galluogi‘r rhai sydd the correct design and correspond to what am ddefnyddio‘r llwybrau i wneud hynny gan people want. Young people‘s views on this eu bod wedi‘u cynllunio‘n briodol ac yn are extremely important to me, and I will be cyfateb i‘r hyn y mae pobl am ei gael. Mae working with the department for education barn pobl ifanc yn hyn o beth yn hynod and skills to ensure that we can embrace bwysig imi, a byddaf yn gweithio gyda‘r opportunities to improve interaction for adran addysg a sgiliau i sicrhau y gallwn young people in relation to the development fanteisio ar gyfleoedd i wella trefniadau of Welsh Government policy. rhyngweithio i bobl ifanc mewn perthynas â datblygu polisi Llywodraeth Cymru.

Blaenoriaethau Priorities

4. Elin Jones: Beth yw blaenoriaethau eich 4. Elin Jones: What are your department’s adran am y chwe mis nesaf. priorities for the next six months. OAQ(4)0193(LGC) OAQ(4)0193(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: My priorities are to deliver Carl Sargeant: Fy mlaenoriaethau yw on our programme for government cyflawni ein hymrwymiadau o ran y rhaglen commitments to reduce poverty, to make our lywodraethu sef lleihau tlodi, gwneud ein communities safer, and to support the cymunedau yn fwy diogel, a helpu i ddarparu delivery of effective and efficient public gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol ac services in Wales. effeithlon yng Nghymru.

Elin Jones: Weinidog, nid wyf yn disgwyl Elin Jones: Minister, I do not expect you to ichi adeiladu ac ailagor rheilffordd rhwng build and reopen the railway line between Caerfyrddin ac yn y chwe mis Carmarthen and Aberystwyth in the next six nesaf, ond gan fod deiseb wedi‘i chyflwyno months, but given that a petition has been i‘r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn dymuno gweld submitted to the National Assembly seeking ailagor y rheilffordd hon, ac rwy‘n sicr yn the reopening of this railway line, and I

23 07/11/2012 cefnogi hynny gan ei bod yn rheilffordd a certainly support that as it is a railway line gafodd ei chau yn y 1960au, a wnewch chi that was closed in the 1960s, will you ask ofyn i‘ch swyddogion edrych ar sut y gellid your officials to consider how the feasibility astudio ac asesu dichonoldeb yn y tymor of reopening a railway line of this type in the rhagweladwy ailagor rheilffordd o‘r math er foreseeable term can be studied and assessed mwyn gwella trafnidiaeth gynaliadwy yn y in order to improve sustainable transport in gorllewin? west Wales?

Carl Sargeant: I welcome the Member‘s Carl Sargeant: Rwy‘n croesawu cwestiwn question given its importance to her local yr Aelod o ystyried ei bwysigrwydd i‘w community. However, I refer the Member to chymuned leol. Fodd bynnag, cyfeiriaf yr the priorities within the national transport Aelod at y blaenoriaethau o fewn y cynllun plan. I will note her question and ask my trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol. Nodaf ei officials to look at that appropriately. chwestiwn a gofynnaf i‘m swyddogion edrych ar hynny yn briodol.

Mick Antoniw: Minister, as local authorities Mick Antoniw: Weinidog, gan fod increasingly raise the issue of a living wage, awdurdodau lleol yn gynyddol yn codi mater will you give an indication of how many cyflog byw, a wnewch roi syniad o faint o workers in Wales earn less than the current weithwyr yng Nghymru sy‘n ennill llai na‘r living wage? What are the Government‘s cyflog byw ar hyn o bryd? Beth yw priorities with regard to this issue? blaenoriaethau‘r Llywodraeth yn hyn o beth?

Carl Sargeant: The Welsh Government has Carl Sargeant: Mae Llywodraeth Cymru made a commitment on the living wage, and I wedi gwneud ymrwymiad ar y cyflog byw, a refer the Member to the statement that we chyfeiriaf yr Aelod at y datganiad a made some time ago. I will be updating that wnaethom beth amser yn ôl. Byddaf yn ei this week. As you will be aware, there has ddiweddaru yr wythnos hon. Fel y byddwch been a lot of interest in the national agenda yn ymwybodol, bu cryn dipyn o ddiddordeb on the living wage, and many political yn yr agenda genedlaethol ar y cyflog byw, a statements have been made this week. I am gwnaed sawl datganiad gwleidyddol yr very supportive of the living wage, but it has wythnos hon. Rwy‘n gadarn o blaid y cyflog to be based on evidence. The working group byw, ond rhaid iddo fod yn seiliedig ar that we have established in Wales, which dystiolaeth. Bydd y gweithgor a sefydlwyd works with the Welsh Government and gennym yng Nghymru, sy‘n gweithio gyda partners, will give us some more information Llywodraeth Cymru a phartneriaid, yn rhoi regarding whether and how we can develop rhagor o wybodaeth inni o ran pa un a allwn that further. ddatblygu hynny ymhellach a sut i wneud hynny.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, Bridgend Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, cafodd County Borough Council was recently Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar criticised after it emerged that one councillor Ogwr ei feirniadu‘n ddiweddar ar ôl iddi pocketed over £9,500 of taxpayers‘ money ddod i‘r amlwg bod un cynghorydd yn cael for being the chairperson of a committee that dros £9,500 o arian trethdalwyr am gadeirio existed in name only. It has also emerged pwyllgor a oedd ond yn bodoli mewn enw yn since that a further four councils have yet to unig. Daeth i‘r amlwg hefyd ers hynny fod fulfil the requirements of the Local pedwar cyngor arall wedi methu â chyflawni Government (Wales) Measure 2011 that you gofynion Mesur Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) brought in. As the driver of that Measure, 2011 a gyflwynwyd gennych. Fel ysgogwr y will you tell us how many of the 22 local Mesur hwnnw, a ddywedwch wrthym faint authorities in Wales have fulfilled its o‘r 22 awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru sydd requirements by setting up a democracy wedi cyflawni ei ofynion drwy sefydlu committee? pwyllgor democratiaeth?

24 07/11/2012

Carl Sargeant: I am the Minister who Carl Sargeant: Fi yw‘r Gweinidog a introduced the Measure, but the delivery is gyflwynodd y Mesur, ond yr holl the responsibility of all local government awdurdodau llywodraeth leol ledled Cymru authorities across Wales. sy‘n gyfrifol am ei roi ar waith.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Thank you for that Janet Finch-Saunders: Diolch am yr ateb answer, Minister. According to the legal hwnnw, Weinidog. Yn ôl gofynion requirements of the 2011 Measure, these cyfreithiol Mesur 2011, dim ond unwaith y democratic services committees need meet flwyddyn y mae angen i‘r pwyllgorau only once a year. Given that the gwasanaethau democrataidd hyn gyfarfod. O accompanying special responsibility ystyried bod y lwfans cyfrifoldeb arbennig allowance is over £9,000 per year, do you cysylltiedig yn cyfateb i fwy na £9,000 y consider that meeting only once is a good use flwyddyn, a ydych o‘r farn bod cyfarfod of taxpayers‘ money? What are you doing, as unwaith y flwyddyn yn unig yn ddefnydd da Minister, to ensure that this Measure is o arian trethdalwyr? Beth rydych yn ei implemented and is achieving its real aims? wneud, fel Gweinidog, i sicrhau y caiff y Mesur hwn ei roi ar waith a‘i fod yn cyflawni ei nodau gwirioneddol?

Carl Sargeant: Local democracy is Carl Sargeant: Mae democratiaeth leol yn important to me and to many across the bwysig i mi ac i lawer ymhob rhan o‘r community. If we are talking about gymuned. Os ydym yn sôn am gyflog sy‘n performance-related pay, the Member might gysylltiedig â pherfformiad, efallai yr hoffai‘r want to consider her own salary. Aelod ystyried ei chyflog hi ei hun.

2.15 p.m.

Christine Chapman: Minister, I was Christine Chapman: Weinidog, rwy‘n disappointed to learn that at least one siomedig o glywed mai dim ond dau gerbyd commuter rail service operating during the trên oedd ar o leiaf un gwasanaeth rheilffordd rush hour this morning between my i gymudwyr a oedd yn gweithredu yn ystod constituency and Cardiff consisted of just two yr awr frys y bore yma rhwng fy etholaeth a train carriages, making the journey less safe Chaerdydd, gan olygu bod y daith yn llai and comfortable for passengers and staff, and diogel a chyfforddus i deithwyr a staff, ac o possibly deterring users. While I understand bosibl yn atal defnyddwyr. Er fy mod yn that emergencies or last-minute changes may deall y gallai argyfyngau neu newidiadau mean that there is no other option, do you munud olaf olygu nad oes unrhyw ddewis agree that this is simply unacceptable as a arall, a gytunwch fod hyn yn gwbl matter of course, and will you as a priority annerbyniol fel mater o drefn, ac a wnewch enter into discussions with service providers gynnal trafodaethau gyda darparwyr to ensure adequate provision of carriages? gwasanaethau, fel mater o flaenoriaeth, i sicrhau bod digon o gerbydau yn cael eu darparu?

Carl Sargeant: The pressure on the network Carl Sargeant: Mae‘r pwysau ar y is something that the Member has raised with rhwydwaith yn rhywbeth y mae‘r Aelod me before, and I share her concerns. The wedi‘i godi gyda mi eisoes, ac rwy‘n rhannu operators are in an interesting agreement in ei phryderon. Mae gan y gweithredwyr relation to the franchises that are operated, gytundeb diddorol o ran y masnachfreintiau a but, with the electrification of the Valleys gaiff eu gweithredu, ond, wrth i reilffordd y lines and the main line, and with new Cymoedd a‘r brif linell rheilffordd gael eu progress with integrated transport across trydaneiddio, ac o ystyried cynnydd newydd Wales, who knows? We aspire to making o ran trafnidiaeth integredig ledled Cymru, sure that we have a system suitable for the pwy a ŵyr? Rydym yn anelu at sicrhau bod future in Wales. gennym system sy‘n addas ar gyfer y dyfodol

25 07/11/2012

yng Nghymru.

William Powell: Given yesterday‘s William Powell: O ystyried datganiad ddoe statement by the Minister for Business, gan y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg Enterprise, Technology and Science on the a Gwyddoniaeth ar ddyfodol parthau twf lleol future of the Powys local growth zones, what Powys, pa addasiadau y byddech yn ystyried modifications would you consider making to eu gwneud i flaenoriaethau eich adran er your department‘s priorities to ensure that the mwyn sicrhau y gall y prosiectau seilwaith essential infrastructure projects envisaged to hanfodol a ragwelir er mwyn cyflawni‘r deliver those zones are able to come forward? parthau hynny gael eu rhoi ar waith? Rwy‘n I am thinking particularly of the hourly meddwl yn benodol am y gwasanaeth bob service from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, awr o Aberystwyth i‘r Amwythig, a fyddai‘n which would contribute greatly to the cyfrannu‘n sylweddol at hyfywedd economic vitality of Newtown. economaidd y Drenewydd.

Carl Sargeant: I welcome the Member‘s Carl Sargeant: Croesawaf gwestiwn yr question. The discussions between me and Aelod. Mae‘r trafodaethau rhyngof i a‘r the Minister for business are ongoing. There Gweinidog Busnes yn mynd rhagddynt. Nid is no change to my priorities for the hourly oes unrhyw newid i‘m blaenoriaethau ar service, which have been well documented in gyfer y gwasanaeth bob awr, a ddogfennwyd this Chamber. yn helaeth yn y Siambr hon.

Sandy Mewies: Minister, in recognising how Sandy Mewies: Weinidog, wrth gydnabod pa important all transport links, including rail, mor bwysig yw‘r holl gysylltiadau are to the economy and the social wellbeing trafnidiaeth, gan gynnwys rheilffyrdd, i of north Wales, will you ask your officials to economi a lles cymdeithasol gogledd Cymru, look in the next six months at the possibility a ofynnwch i‘ch swyddogion ymchwilio, yn of electrification of the north Wales line? ystod y chwe mis nesaf, i‘r posibilrwydd o drydaneiddio prif linell rheilffordd y gogledd?

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei important question. I am also grateful for the chwestiwn pwysig. Rwyf hefyd yn recent meeting that you, Ann Jones and Ken ddiolchgar am y cyfarfod diweddar y Skates held regarding the interest in the gwnaethoch chi, Ann Jones a Ken Skates ei electrification of the north Wales line. This is gynnal o ran y diddordeb yn y posibilrwydd o something that I have raised with the drydaneiddio llinell rheilffordd y gogledd. Minister for transport in Westminster, and it Rwyf wedi codi‘r mater gyda‘r Gweinidog is something that we will pursue with vigour Trafnidiaeth yn San Steffan, ac mae‘n in Wales. rhywbeth y byddwn yn ymchwilio‘n frwd iddo yng Nghymru.

Awdurdodau Lleol Local Authorities

5. Gwyn R. Price: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 5. Gwyn R. Price: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am gydweithio rhwng statement on collaboration between Welsh awdurdodau lleol Cymru. local authorities. OAQ(4)0203(LGC) OAQ(4)0203(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: Collaboration between local Carl Sargeant: Mae cydweithio rhwng authorities is critical if we are to survive the awdurdodau lleol yn hollbwysig er mwyn tough financial challenges ahead. Following inni oresgyn yr heriau ariannol anodd sydd the compact for change between local o‘n blaenau. Yn dilyn y compact ar gyfer government and the Welsh Government, I am newid rhwng llywodraeth leol a Llywodraeth continuing to encourage and support this with Cymru, rwy‘n parhau i annog a chefnogi hyn

26 07/11/2012 a new £10 million regional collaboration gyda chronfa cydweithio rhanbarthol newydd fund. o £10 miliwn.

Gwyn R. Price: Minister, protecting front- Gwyn R. Price: Weinidog, rhaid i ddiogelu line services must be a priority for councils gwasanaethau rheng flaen fod yn flaenoriaeth across Wales. Do you agree that the i gynghorau ledled Cymru. A gytunwch y collaboration that we are seeing between dylai‘r trefniadau cydweithio sydd ar waith Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent councils in rhwng cyngor Caerffili a chyngor Blaenau social services should be an example for all Gwent ym maes gwasanaethau cymdeithasol other local authorities to follow? fod yn esiampl i bob awdurdod lleol arall ei dilyn?

Carl Sargeant: I welcome collaboration Carl Sargeant: Croesawaf ymdrechion i across all parts of Wales, and I am grateful to gydweithio ymhob rhan o Gymru, ac rwy‘n the Member for highlighting the activities ddiolchgar i‘r Aelod am dynnu sylw at y local to his constituency. You are quite right gweithgareddau lleol yn ei etholaeth. Rydych to say that collaboration should be the new yn llygad eich lle wrth ddweud y dylid key word for organisations across Wales, not ystyried cydweithio fel y gair allweddol just within local government but in newydd i sefydliadau ledled Cymru, nid yn organisations working with the public sector. unig ym maes llywodraeth leol ond o fewn I am encouraged by the many opportunities sefydliadau sy‘n gweithio gyda‘r sector that have been presented to me, but there is cyhoeddus. Mae‘r cyfleoedd niferus a an awfully long way to go. gyflwynwyd ger fy mron yn galonogol, ond mae cryn dipyn i‘w wneud o hyd.

Mark Isherwood: How do you respond to Mark Isherwood: Beth yw eich ymateb i concerns raised with me by some local bryderon a godwyd gyda mi gan arweinwyr authority leaders in north Wales that the £10- rhai awdurdodau lleol yn y gogledd y bydd y million top-slice for regional collaboration brigdoriad o £10 miliwn ar gyfer cydweithio will equate to £5 million less for prudential rhanbarthol yn golygu £5 miliwn yn llai ar borrowing for each £300,000 that will be cut? gyfer benthyca darbodus am bob £300,000 a Concerns were also raised about your letter to gaiff ei dorri? Codwyd pryderon hefyd am the Welsh Local Government Association eich llythyr i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol saying that health and social service budgets Cymru yn dweud y caiff cyllidebau iechyd a are to be ring-fenced, as this equates to 65% gwasanaethau cymdeithasol eu clustnodi, gan of their influencable budget and will generate fod hyn yn cyfateb i 65% o‘r gyllideb y far bigger cuts to front-line services such as gallant ddylanwadu arni ac y bydd yn creu leisure and youth services, libraries, trading toriadau llawer mwy i wasanaethau rheng standards, economic development, flaen, megis gwasanaethau hamdden ac regeneration, the housing strategy and the ieuenctid, llyfrgelloedd, safonau masnach, homelessness strategy. datblygu economaidd, adfywio, y strategaeth dai a‘r strategaeth ddigartrefedd.

Carl Sargeant: I suggest that the Member‘s Carl Sargeant: Awgrymaf mai nonsens yw contribution—wherever he got that cyfraniad yr Aelod—ni waeth ble y cafodd y information from—is nonsense. If the leaders wybodaeth honno. Os hoffai‘r arweinwyr y that he refers to wish to come to see me to cyfeiria atynt ddod i‘m gweld i drafod y talk to me about that, I would be more than mater, byddwn yn fwy na pharod i gynnal y happy to have that discussion. Ten million drafodaeth honno. Mae £10 miliwn yn pounds is 0.25% of what would be the cyfateb i 0.25% o setliad y grant cynnal revenue support grant settlement. It is a refeniw. Mae‘n gronfa cydweithio, ond arian collaboration fund, but it is still local llywodraeth leol ydyw o hyd—nid government money—it is not a reduction. It gostyngiad mohono. Mae‘n ychwanegol at y is in addition to the money that local cynnydd ariannol y mae llywodraeth leol

27 07/11/2012 government has already had in an increase, eisoes wedi‘i gael, ac fe‘i croesawyd gan and it has been welcomed by many lawer o awdurdodau. Fodd bynnag, os nad authorities. However, if the authorities that yw‘r awdurdodau nad ydynt am gymryd rhan do not want to take part in the collaboration yn y cytundeb cydweithio am gael gafael deal do not want to access it, they will not get arno, ni fyddant yn cael unrhyw arian any money either. ychwaith.

Lindsay Whittle: Has the Minister Lindsay Whittle: A yw‘r Gweinidog wedi considered the idea of promoting joint ystyried y syniad o hyrwyddo mentrau ar y initiatives between neighbouring authorities cyd rhwng awdurdodau cyfagos er mwyn in order to ensure economic growth? sicrhau twf economaidd?

Carl Sargeant: The Member raises a really Carl Sargeant: Mae‘r Aelod yn codi pwynt important point. I work with the Minister for pwysig iawn. Rwy‘n gweithio gyda‘r Business, Enterprise, Technology and Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Science and Cabinet members collectively to Gwyddoniaeth ac aelodau‘r Cabinet ar y cyd look at how we can best use the limited i ganfod y ffordd orau o ddefnyddio‘r arian funding available to encourage further cyfyngedig sydd ar gael i annog cytundebau collaboration deals, bearing in mind that the cydweithio pellach, o gofio bod Llywodraeth Welsh Government has received £2.1 billion Cymru wedi cael £2.1 biliwn yn llai gan less from the UK Government in Lywodraeth y DU yn San Steffan. Westminster.

Peter Black: Minister, you may have heard Peter Black: Weinidog, efallai eich bod wedi the evidence given to the Finance Committee clywed y dystiolaeth a roddwyd i‘r Pwyllgor on the draft budget by local councils, which Cyllid ar y gyllideb ddrafft gan gynghorau indicated that one of the problems they are lleol, a oedd yn nodi mai un o‘r problemau having with collaboration is that, when they maent yn ei chael o ran cydweithio yw, pan try to work with health authorities, or health fyddant yn ceisio gweithio gydag boards as they are now known, the boards are awdurdodau iechyd, neu fyrddau iechyd fel trying to pass costs on to them and avoid the y‘u gelwir yn awr, mae‘r byrddau yn ceisio pooled budget approach that we all support. trosglwyddo costau iddynt hwy ac osgoi‘r What work have you done to look into this dull rhannu cyllideb a gefnogir gan bob un particular problem? ohonom. Pa waith rydych wedi‘i wneud i ymdrin â‘r broblem benodol hon?

Carl Sargeant: The public service leadership Carl Sargeant: Mae grŵp arwain y group has members from across the public gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn cynnwys aelodau o sector, including local health boards, fire bob rhan o‘r sector cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys services, the police and local authorities, byrddau iechyd lleol, gwasanaethau tân, yr working very closely together. I have seen heddlu ac awdurdodau lleol, yn gweithio‘n many projects that are transformational in agos iawn gyda‘i gilydd. Rwyf wedi gweld their operation across Wales involving local llawer o brosiectau trawsnewidiol ledled authorities and health boards. The Gwent Cymru sy‘n cynnwys awdurdodau lleol a frailty project is one of those models, and it is byrddau iechyd. Mae prosiect eiddilwch an example of local authorities and health Gwent yn un o‘r modelau hynny, ac mae‘n boards working very well together. Often, enghraifft o awdurdodau lleol a byrddau there are many obstacles placed in the way of iechyd yn gweithio yn dda iawn gyda‘i working differently from the traditional ways gilydd. Yn aml, mae nifer o rwystrau wrth local authorities or health boards have always geisio gweithio mewn ffordd sy‘n cefnu ar worked. These are often overcome by trust, ddulliau traddodiadol awdurdodau lleol neu and I am pushing opportunities to develop fyrddau iechyd. Yn aml caiff y rhwystrau hyn new ideas very hard. One example in north eu goresgyn drwy ymddiriedaeth, ac rwy‘n Wales is the north Wales social services annog cyfleoedd i ddatblygu syniadau improvement collaborative. There is also the newydd i‘r eithaf. Un enghraifft yng

28 07/11/2012

Gwent frailty project. So this is working; it is ngogledd Cymru yw rhaglen welliant just that, sometimes, individuals are not the gydweithredol gwasanaethau cymdeithasol willing partner. gogledd Cymru. Dylid nodi prosiect eiddilwch Gwent hefyd. Felly mae‘r broses yn gweithio; ond, weithiau, nid yw unigolion yn barod i gymryd rhan.

Peter Black: Thank you for that, Minister. It Peter Black: Diolch ichi am hynny, would be nice to have an example of how Weinidog. Byddai‘n braf cael enghraifft o sut collaboration can work other than the Gwent y gall cydweithredu weithio ar wahân i frailty project. I accept your last point that brosiect eiddilwch Gwent. Derbyniaf eich not everyone is willing to be a partner. That pwynt olaf nad yw pawb yn barod i gymryd is precisely the point being made on the rhan. Dyna‘r union bwynt sy‘n dod i‘r amlwg ground, namely that local authorities are ar lawr gwlad, sef bod awdurdodau lleol yn willing to work with each other but that, barod i weithio gyda‘i gilydd ond, pan when they try to work with organisations fyddant yn ceisio gweithio gyda sefydliadau outside local government, and particularly y tu allan i lywodraeth leol, ac yn arbennig with health boards, they are finding that there gyda byrddau iechyd, eu bod yn wynebu is reluctance and that attempts are made to amharodrwydd ac ymdrechion i ddefnyddio‘r use the collaboration to pass on costs that trefniadau cydweithio i drosglwyddo costau they do not believe they should bear. Clearly, nad ydynt o‘r farn y dylent orfod eu talu. Yn there is an issue in the sense that you are the amlwg, mae problem yn yr ystyr mai chi only Minister who seems to be promoting the yw‘r unig Weinidog, yn ôl pob tebyg, sy‘n collaboration agenda. Do you think that that hyrwyddo‘r agenda cydweithio. A ydych o‘r is fair? farn bod hynny‘n deg?

Carl Sargeant: I do not accept your last Carl Sargeant: Nid wyf yn derbyn eich point. Of course, colleagues right across pwynt olaf. Wrth gwrs, mae cyd-Aelodau Cabinet support me on this. It was a ymhob rhan o‘r Cabinet yn fy nghefnogi yn collective decision to develop collaboration. hyn o beth. Gwnaed penderfyniad cyfun i Earlier, the Minister for Education and Skills ddatblygu trefniadau cydweithio. Yn answered questions on this very issue. You gynharach, atebodd y Gweinidog Addysg a asked for examples other than the Gwent Sgiliau gwestiynau ar yr union fater hwn. frailty project. I mentioned earlier what is Gofynasoch am enghreifftiau ar wahân i happening in north Wales. There is also a brosiect eiddilwch Gwent. Soniais yn social care commissioning hub in north gynharach am yr hyn sy‘n digwydd yng Wales. There is the Western bay health and ngogledd Cymru. Mae yna hefyd ganolfan social care programme in the Western bay comisiynu gofal cymdeithasol yng ngogledd footprint area. There is the regional Cymru. Mae rhaglen iechyd a gofal collaborative committee‘s Supporting People cymdeithasol ym mae‘r Gorllewin yn ardal programme in Cwm Taf. I could refer to ôl-troed bae‘r Gorllewin. Mae rhaglen many more. If the Member wishes for more Cefnogi Pobl y pwyllgor cydweithredol details, he might wish to write to me rhanbarthol yng Nghwm Taf. Gallwn gyfeirio requesting those. at sawl enghraifft arall. Os hoffai‘r Aelod ragor o fanylion, mae croeso iddo ysgrifennu ataf yn gofyn amdanynt.

Gweithio’n Drawsffiniol Cross-border Working

6. Mark Drakeford: Pa gamau y mae’r 6. Mark Drakeford: What steps is the Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i annog Minister taking to encourage cross-border awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i weithio’n working between local authorities in Wales. drawsffiniol. OAQ(4)0201(LGC) OAQ(4)0201(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: Collaboration between local Carl Sargeant: Mae cydweithio rhwng

29 07/11/2012 authorities is critical if we are to survive the awdurdodau lleol yn hollbwysig er mwyn tough challenges ahead. Following the goresgyn yr heriau anodd sydd o‘n blaenau. compact for change between local Yn dilyn y compact ar gyfer newid rhwng government and the Welsh Government, I am llywodraeth leol a Llywodraeth Cymru, continuing to encourage and support this. rwy‘n parhau i annog a chefnogi hyn.

Mark Drakeford: Thank you, Minister. Mark Drakeford: Diolch ichi, Weinidog. Cross-border working between local Mae gweithio trawsffiniol rhwng authorities is essential to the achievement of awdurdodau lleol yn hanfodol er mwyn a whole series of Welsh Government cyflawni cyfres gyfan blaenoriaethau priorities, including the production of Llywodraeth Cymru, gan gynnwys llunio sensible local development plans and making cynlluniau datblygu lleol synhwyrol a throi‘r a reality of the city-regions concept. What cysyniad o ddinas-ranbarthau yn realiti. Pa leadership are Welsh Ministers able to arweinyddiaeth y gall Gweinidogion Cymru provide to help local authorities overcome ei darparu er mwyn helpu awdurdodau lleol i some difficult histories in this area so that oresgyn rhai hanesion anodd yn y maes hwn they are better able to work together to create er mwyn iddynt fod mewn sefyllfa well i the sort of services people in their areas are gydweithio i greu‘r math o wasanaethau y entitled to expect? mae gan bobl yn eu hardaloedd yr hawl i‘w disgwyl?

Carl Sargeant: It has been challenging to get Carl Sargeant: Mae darbwyllo pobl sydd people who have traditionally worked in one wedi gweithio mewn un maes yn area to work beyond the normal boundaries draddodiadol i weithio y tu hwnt i‘w ffiniau they have been comfortable with. My team cysur arferol wedi bod yn her. Mae fy nhîm operates through the PSLG, as I mentioned yn gweithredu drwy‘r adran Gwasanaethau earlier, working with the Minister for Cyhoeddus a Llywodraeth Leol, fel y business on city regions to develop crybwyllais yn gynharach, gan weithio gyda‘r relationships that are clearly working in many Trefnydd ar ddinas-ranbarthau i ddatblygu areas. As I said earlier in response to your cydberthnasau sy‘n amlwg yn gweithio colleague‘s question, where people wish to mewn sawl ardal. Fel y dywedais yn participate, we will encourage and help them gynharach mewn ymateb i gwestiwn eich all the way. Where people fail to do this, they cyd-Aelod, lle mae pobl yn awyddus i will be left behind and will start to fail on gymryd rhan, byddwn yn eu hannog ac yn eu service delivery. That is where we will step helpu drwy gydol y broses. Pan fydd pobl yn in to make that difference. methu â gwneud hyn, byddant yn cael eu gadael ar ôl a byddwn yn dechrau methu o ran darparu gwasanaethau. Dyna lle byddwn yn camu i mewn i wneud y gwahaniaeth hwnnw.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, you have Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, rydych attempted to present this year‘s local wedi ceisio cyflwyno setliad llywodraeth leol government settlement as a generous gift eleni fel rhodd hael gan Lywodraeth Cymru i from the Welsh Government to local awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae‘r authorities. However, the £10 million of top- brigdoriad o £10 miliwn rydych wedi‘i dynnu slicing that you have taken away from the o‘r grant cynnal refeniw ar gyfer cydweithio revenue support grant for collaboration bellach yn golygu bod awdurdodau yn colli means that authorities now face a double allan ddwywaith gan eu bod yn colli allan ar whammy as they are losing out on that—in hwnnw—gwerth £400,000 yng Nghonwy— Conwy it is £400,000—and as it now affects a‘i fod yn awr yn effeithio ar eu gallu their prudential borrowing capacity. Minister, benthyca darbodus. Weinidog, onid yw‘r £10 is it not the case that the £10 million that you miliwn a frigdorrwyd gennych yn cydnabod have top-sliced is an admission that your bod eich agenda cydweithio, hyd yma, wedi collaboration agenda has, so far, failed and methu, a‘ch bod, i bob pwrpas, yn cosbi‘r

30 07/11/2012 that you are simply punishing those awdurdodau hynny sy‘n cydymffurfio er compliant authorities in order to, almost, mwyn, i ryw raddau, llwgrwobrwyo‘r bribe those authorities that are not listening to awdurdodau hynny nad ydynt yn gwrando you at all? Is this the best that you can do? arnoch o gwbl? Ai dyna‘r gorau y gallwch ei wneud?

Carl Sargeant: I am impressed by the Carl Sargeant: Mae cwestiwn yr Aelod wedi Member‘s question yet again, but the creu argraff arnaf unwaith eto, ond mae Member is ill informed again. If the Member gwybodaeth yr Aelod yn ddiffygiol unwaith looks at the budget line, she will see that the eto. Pe edrychai‘r Aelod ar linell y gyllideb, £10 million is not part of the RSG; it is RSG gwêl nad yw‘r £10 miliwn yn rhan o‘r grant plus £10 million. If this is the worst I can do, cynnal refeniw; nodir y grant cynnal refeniw as the Member suggests, I wonder what the a £10 miliwn ychwanegol. Os mai dyma‘r Member‘s comments would be on the basis ymdrech waethaf gennyf, fel yr awgryma‘r that, in Wales, Welsh local government, over Aelod, tybed pa sylwadau fyddai gan yr the three-year settlement, will be getting an Aelod ar y sail y bydd llywodraeth leol, yng average of a 0.6% increase, whereas, in Nghymru, dros gyfnod y setliad tair blynedd, England, under her administration in yn cael cynnydd cyfartalog o 0.6%, lle y Westminster, local government will be bydd llywodraeth leol yn Lloegr, o dan ei receiving a reduction of 0.6% to its gweinyddiaeth hi, yn cael gostyngiad o 0.6% settlement. I think that she has got this all yn ei setliad. Credaf ei bod wedi gwneud wrong. cam.

Trafnidiaeth Gyhoeddus Public Transport

7. Simon Thomas: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 7. Simon Thomas: Will the Minister outline amlinellu ei flaenoriaethau ar gyfer his priorities for public transport in Mid and trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghanolbarth a West Wales. OAQ(4)0195(LGC) Gorllewin Cymru. OAQ(4)0195(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: I am grateful for the Carl Sargeant: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am Member‘s question. My priorities for public gwestiwn yr Aelod. Nodir fy mlaenoriaethau transport in Mid and West Wales are set out ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng in the national transport plan. Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol.

Simon Thomas: Diolch i‘r Gweinidog am ei Simon Thomas: I thank the Minister for that ateb. Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod bod cryn response. The Minister will know that dipyn o siom wedi‘i fynegi yn dilyn ei considerable disappointment has been ddatganiad heddiw, a datganiad y Prif expressed following his statement today and Weinidog ddoe, y bydd rhaid aros tan 2015, i that of the First Minister yesterday that we bob pwrpas, am y gwasanaeth bob awr ar hyd will have to wait until 2015, to all intents and lein y Cambrian o Amwythig i Aberystwyth a purposes, for the hourly service on the thu hwnt; nid y tu hwnt i Aberystwyth, hynny Cambrian line from Shrewsbury to yw, ond lan i‘r gogledd. [Torri ar draws.] Aberystwyth and beyond; not beyond Byddai hynny‘n achosi tipyn o drafferth. Aberystwyth as such, but onwards to north [Chwerthin.] Wales. [Interruption.] That would lead to quite a few problems. [Laughter.]

Mae hwn yn wasanaeth hanfodol nid yn unig This is a vital service not just for the line, but ar gyfer y lein, ond ar gyfer agor gwelliannau for further improvements to the line. I am pellach i‘r lein, yn benodol gorsafoedd trên thinking in particular of new stations in Bow newydd yn Bow Street a Charno, achos Street and Carno, because new stations at gallai‘r ddwy orsaf newydd hynny those locations could enrich the line

31 07/11/2012 gyfoethogi‘r lein cryn dipyn. A fydd y considerably. Will the Minister at least bring Gweinidog o leiaf yn rhoi pwysau ar y cyrff pressure to bear on the local and regional lleol a rhanbarthol a galw arnynt i sicrhau authorities and urge them to ensure that the bod y gwaith paratoadol ar gyfer gorsafoedd preparatory work for the new stations takes newydd yn digwydd nawr? place now?

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei question. I am surprised that he is gwestiwn. Rwy‘n synnu ei fod yn siomedig disappointed today, as I am giving him the heddiw, gan fy mod yn rhoi‘r un ateb iddo same answer today as I gave him last month, heddiw ag y rhoddais iddo fis diwethaf, pan when he was not disappointed. The timetable nad oedd yn siomedig. Nid yw‘r amserlen has not changed; we still expect to deliver the wedi newid; rydym yn dal i ddisgwyl hourly service in 2014-15. Much of the work darparu‘r gwasanaeth bob awr yn 2014-15. and improvements that we aspire to in Wales Mae llawer o‘r gwaith a‘r gwelliannau rydym are dependent on finances that the yn anelu atynt yng Nghymru yn dibynnu ar Westminster Government provides to us, and gyllid y mae Llywodraeth San Steffan yn ei we have other pressures in Welsh roi inni, ac mae gennym bwysau eraill o fewn Government. However, this is still a priority Llywodraeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn for me and nothing has changed. yn parhau‘n flaenoriaeth imi ac nid oes unrhyw beth wedi newid.

Russell George: I note the Minister‘s Russell George: Nodaf ymateb y Gweinidog response to a recent written question i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig diweddar ynghylch regarding the public inquiry for the Newtown yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus ar gyfer ffordd bypass. Minister, you stated that the public osgoi‘r Drenewydd. Weinidog, dywedasoch inquiry is scheduled to take place in 2014. I fod yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus wedi‘i drefnu am pleased that the First Minister confirmed i‘w gynnal yn 2014. Rwy‘n falch bod y Prif yesterday during questions that the Weinidog wedi cadarnhau ddoe yn ystod construction of the Newtown bypass is cwestiynau bod disgwyl i‘r gwaith o adeiladu scheduled to start in late 2014 or early 2015. ffordd osgoi‘r Drenewydd ddechrau ddiwedd However, I am concerned that the timescale 2014 neu ddechrau 2015. Fodd bynnag, for holding the public inquiry in 2014 seems rwy‘n pryderu bod yr amserlen ar gyfer rather tight for construction to start in the cynnal yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus yn 2014 yn same year. Will the Minister explain what ymddangos braidd yn dynn er mwyn i‘r processes need to take place following the gwaith adeiladu ddechrau yn ystod yr un public inquiry? Will the Minister also flwyddyn. A wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro pa consider bringing forward the public inquiry, brosesau y bydd angen eu rhoi ar waith yn to ensure that construction starts in late 2014? dilyn yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus? A wnaiff y Gweinidog hefyd ystyried cynnal yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus yn gynharach, er mwyn sicrhau bod y gwaith adeiladu yn dechrau ddiwedd 2014?

Carl Sargeant: I do not expect that the Carl Sargeant: Tybiaf nad oes gan yr Aelod Member has had much experience of public lawer o brofiad o ymchwiliadau cyhoeddus. inquiries. Therefore, he raises the right Felly, mae‘n codi‘r cwestiynau priodol gyda questions with me today in terms of the detail mi heddiw o ran y manylion sydd eu hangen that he requires. I will point the Member to arno. Cyfeiriaf yr Aelod at y dyddiad the final date; the construction is currently terfynol; ar hyn o bryd, disgwylir i‘r gwaith scheduled to start in late 2014 or early 2015. adeiladu ddechrau ddiwedd 2014 neu That has not changed. Prior to that, there may ddechrau 2015. Nid yw hynny wedi newid. be some variances as to when the public Cyn hynny, mae‘n bosibl y bydd rhywfaint o inquiry starts or does not start and the process amrywiad o ran dyddiad dechrau‘r for public engagement. However, the end ymchwiliad cyhoeddus a‘r broses ymgysylltu date is still the same. â‘r cyhoedd. Fodd bynnag, bydd y dyddiad

32 07/11/2012

terfynol yn parhau yr un fath.

Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Rwyf am Lord Elis-Thomas: I wish to thank the ddiolch i‘r Gweinidog am ei ymdrechion ef, Minister for his and his officials‘ efforts, and ei swyddogion a Chyngor Gwynedd i those of Cyngor Gwynedd, in safeguarding ddiogelu‘r sefyllfa ynglŷn â‘r coridor rhwng the situation as regards the corridor between Bangor, , ac Bangor, Porthmadog, Dolgellau and Aberystwyth, ac am y gwasanaeth Aberystwyth, and for the new T2 subsidised cymorthdaledig newydd, T2. A fyddai‘r service. Would the Minister accept that it is Gweinidog yn derbyn ei fod yn hen bryd i ni about time that we looked at integrating bus edrych ar integreiddio gwasanaethau bysiau services with the train service that has been gyda‘r gwasanaeth trên y cyfeiriwyd ato? Er mentioned? Even though we now have a bod gennym wasanaeth safonol bellach gan quality service provided by Lloyds Coaches Lloyds Coaches ac yn yr and Express Motors in the area, this matter ardal, ni fydd y mater hwn yn cael ei ddatrys will not be resolved until we have a common hyd nes bod gennym amserlen gyffredin ar timetable for trains and buses in mid Wales. gyfer trenau a bysiau yn y canolbarth.

2.30 p.m.

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei comments and for the regular letters that he sylwadau ac am y llythyrau rheolaidd y sends me on this issue. I agree that we must mae‘n eu hanfon ataf ar y mater hwn. have an integrated rail and road service Cytunaf fod yn rhaid inni gael gwasanaeth across Wales. I have asked my department to rheilffyrdd a ffyrdd integredig ledled Cymru. look at that, and I will keep him updated. Rwyf wedi gofyn i‘m hadran ymchwilio i hynny, a byddaf yn ei hysbysu‘n rheolaidd.

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Democrats (Kirsty Williams): Could you Cymru (Kirsty Williams): A allech inform the Assembly of whether a risk hysbysu‘r Cynulliad pa un a gynhaliwyd analysis was carried out before the dadansoddiad risg cyn i‘r Llywodraeth Government purchased the new buses that brynu‘r bysiau newydd sy‘n teithio ar hyd travel the TrawsCambria T4 route between llwybr TrawsCambria T4 rhwng y Newtown and Cardiff? Many of my Drenewydd a Chaerdydd? Byddai llawer o‘m constituents, while grateful for that service, hetholwyr, er eu bod yn ddiolchgar am y would feel more comfortable travelling on it gwasanaeth hwnnw, yn teimlo‘n fwy if they were able to wear seatbelts for the cyfforddus yn teithio arno pe gallent wisgo journey. The buses are classed as providing a gwregysau diogelwch ar gyfer y daith. local service—I do not regard a journey Dosberthir y bysiau fel rhai sy‘n darparu between Newtown to Cardiff as being gwasanaeth lleol—nid yw taith rhwng y particularly local—but did you carry out a Drenewydd a Chaerdydd yn lleol iawn, yn fy risk analysis before you purchased buses that marn i—ond a wnaethoch gynnal did not allow seatbelts to be used? dadansoddiad risg cyn ichi brynu bysiau na ellir defnyddio gwregysau diogelwch arnynt?

Carl Sargeant: I have had correspondence Carl Sargeant: Rwyf wedi gohebu â chi ar y with you on this issue. My officials inform mater hwn. Dywed fy swyddogion wrthyf fod me that the bus service and the buses on that y gwasanaeth bws a‘r bysiau ar y llwybr route are appropriate for that route. hwnnw yn briodol ar gyfer y llwybr hwnnw.

Cydweithio Collaboration

8. Mike Hedges: A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r 8. Mike Hedges: Will the Minister provide an wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gydweithio update on collaboration between local

33 07/11/2012 rhwng awdurdodau lleol. OAQ(4)0197(LGC) authorities. OAQ(4)0197(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: Collaboration between local Carl Sargeant: Mae cydweithio rhwng authorities is critical if we are to survive the awdurdodau lleol yn hollbwysig er mwyn tough financial challenges ahead. goresgyn yr heriau ariannol anodd sydd o‘n blaenau.

Mike Hedges: First, I welcome the £10 Mike Hedges: Yn gyntaf, croesawaf y £10 million that you have put forward to aid miliwn rydych wedi‘i gyflwyno i hwyluso collaboration. I always believe that it is better trefniadau cydweithio. Credaf yn gryf ei bod to have a carrot than a stick to try to get things yn well defnyddio moronen na ffon i geisio done. Could you outline how you intend to annog pobl i weithredu. A allech amlinellu sut drive this agenda forward and how it will fit rydych yn bwriadu rhoi‘r agenda hon ar waith in with the city-region model? a sut y bydd yn gydnaws â model dinas- ranbarthau?

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei question. The final detail is being worked gwestiwn. Mae‘r manylion terfynol yn cael eu through with the Organisational Design and trafod gyda bwrdd Dylunio Sefydliadol a Simpson Implementation board and with the Gweithredu Simpson a chyda Chymdeithas Welsh Local Government Association in Llywodraeth Leol Cymru o ran sut y cynigir terms of how access to the additional £10 cyfleoedd i gael gafael ar y £10 miliwn million will be available. I envisage this being ychwanegol. Rwy‘n rhagweld y bydd hyn yn based on the regional footprint of funding, seiliedig ar ôl troed rhanbarthol ariannol, lle y where authorities can work with partners gall awdurdodau weithio gyda phartneriaid outside local authorities to access this in order nad ydynt yn awdurdodau lleol i gael gafael to develop new collaborative projects beyond arno er mwyn datblygu prosiectau the Simpson agenda that is currently in train. I cydweithredol newydd y tu hwnt i agenda am grateful for the Member‘s support, as I am Simpson sy‘n mynd rhagddi ar hyn o bryd. grateful for the many authorities across Wales Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am gefnogaeth yr Aelod, ac that are also grateful for the £10 million rwy‘n ddiolchgar i‘r awdurdodau niferus collaboration fund. ledled Cymru sydd hefyd yn ddiolchgar am y gronfa cydweithio £10 miliwn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Mae‘r Gweinidog y Rhodri Glyn Thomas: This afternoon, the prynhawn yma wedi bod yn amharod i Minister has been unwilling to accept dderbyn beirniadaeth oddi wrth lefarwyr pob criticism from the spokespeople of all un o‘r gwrthbleidiau, ac nid wyf yn disgwyl i opposition parties, and I do not expect Labour feincwyr cefn y Blaid Lafur ei gwestiynu‘n backbenchers to question him too severely. rhy galed. Ond, ni all wrthod y feirniadaeth However, he cannot repudiate the criticism gan berchnogion cwmnïau bysiau bod y modd levelled by bus company owners that the way y mae wedi ymdrin ag ariannu‘r in which he has dealt with funding bus gwasanaethau bysiau yng Nghymru wedi services in Wales has led to a situation where arwain at sefyllfa lle mae llai o wasanaethau there are fewer services available for ar gael i ddefnyddwyr ac mae‘r gost wedi passengers and where the cost has increased cynyddu yn hytrach na gostwng. rather than decreased.

Carl Sargeant: I am surprised that the Carl Sargeant: Rwy‘n synnu bod yr Aelod Member is being negative on the basis that we yn negyddol ar y sail ein bod yn awr yn ceisio are now trying to fund routes as opposed to ariannu llwybrau yn hytrach na milltiroedd. mileage. It is clear that Plaid Cymru is Mae‘n amlwg bod Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi supporting a fuel subsidy as opposed to a cymhorthdal tanwydd yn hytrach na route subsidy. I am disappointed that he has chymhorthdal llwybr. Rwy‘n siomedig nad not given his support to this today. yw wedi cefnogi hyn heddiw.

34 07/11/2012

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yn anffodus i chi, nid Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Unfortunately for fi sy‘n eich beirniadu, ond perchnogion you, it is not me who is criticising you, but cwmnïau bysiau sydd wedi canfod eu hunain the owners of bus companies who have found mewn sefyllfaoedd eithriadol o anodd themselves in extremely difficult situations oherwydd eich methiant i reoli‘r gyllideb because of your failure to manage this arbennig hon. particular budget.

O ran y dyfodol, mae‘r Llywodraeth yn Going forward, the Government in England is Lloegr yn ymgynghori ynghylch dyfodol consulting on the future of concessionary tocynnau teithio rhatach a‘r grantiau sydd ar fares and the grants available to bus service gael i gyflenwyr gwasanaethau bysiau. Beth operators. What do you intend to do in yw eich bwriad chi yng Nghymru? Yng Wales? In the context of any consultation or nghyd-destun unrhyw ymgynghoriad neu debate on this, how will you safeguard drafodaethau ar hynny, sut y byddwch yn concessionary fares, despite your failure to do diogelu tocynnau teithio rhatach, er gwaethaf so over the last 18 months? eich methiant i wneud hynny yn ystod y 18 mis diwethaf?

Carl Sargeant: You are clearly misquoting Carl Sargeant: Rydych yn amlwg yn any issue regarding failure to protect bus camddyfynnu unrhyw fater o ran methu ag passes and concessionary fares. I have not amddiffyn tocynnau bws a thocynnau teithio made any cuts to concessionary fares. Free rhatach. Nid wyf wedi gwneud unrhyw bus travel is still available in Wales, which is doriadau i docynnau teithio rhatach. Mae quite different from what is happening in the teithiau bws am ddim ar gael yng Nghymru o rest of the UK, particularly in England. The hyd, sy‘n dra gwahanol i‘r sefyllfa yng Member is now championing private bus ngweddill y DU, yn enwedig yn Lloegr. operators in Wales. He is clearly unable to Mae‘r Aelod yn awr yn hyrwyddo develop the arguments and the basis of gweithredwyr bysiau preifat yng Nghymru. support for route transport, as opposed to fuel Mae‘n amlwg na all ddatblygu‘r dadleuon a‘r subsidy. The Member may wish to go back to sail dros gefnogi trafnidiaeth llwybr, yn the drawing board, because I believe that we hytrach na chymhorthdal tanwydd. Efallai yr are on the right side of the argument. hoffai‘r Aelod ailedrych ar y sefyllfa, oherwydd, yn fy marn i, mae gennym ddadl gymhellol.

Seilwaith Trafnidiaeth Transport Infrastructure

9. Antoinette Sandbach: Beth yw 9. Antoinette Sandbach: What are the blaenoriaethau’r Gweinidog ar gyfer y Minister’s priorities for transport seilwaith trafnidiaeth yng Ngogledd Cymru. infrastructure in North Wales. OAQ(4)0205(LGC) OAQ(4)0205(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: Our programme for Carl Sargeant: Nodir ein rhaglen ar gyfer improving transport infrastructure in north gwella‘r seilwaith trafnidiaeth yng ngogledd Wales is set out in the prioritised national Cymru yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol transport plan, which was published last sy‘n cynnwys blaenoriaethau, a gyhoeddwyd December. fis Rhagfyr diwethaf.

Antoinette Sandbach: I am grateful that you Antoinette Sandbach: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar appear to share the Secretary of State for eich bod, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn rhannu Wales‘s ambition to see the case made for the uchelgais Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru i electrification of the main line in north Wales, gyflwyno‘r achos dros drydaneiddio‘r brif and I heard your earlier answer to the linell rheilffordd yng ngogledd Cymru, a Member for Delyn. Following the recent chlywais eich ateb cynharach i‘r Aelod dros meeting with the UK Government, can you Delyn. Yn dilyn y cyfarfod diweddar gyda

35 07/11/2012 confirm what progress you are making in Llywodraeth y DU, a allwch gadarnhau pa building support and gathering evidence, gynnydd rydych yn ei wneud o ran meithrin particularly from councils and business cefnogaeth a chasglu tystiolaeth, yn enwedig groups? Will you confirm at the start of this gan gynghorau a grwpiau busnes? A process how soon you expect the business gadarnhewch ar ddechrau‘r broses hon pa mor case to be published, because time is an fuan y disgwyliwch i‘r achos busnes gael ei important factor in convincing Network Rail gyhoeddi, gan fod amser yn ffactor pwysig o and the Department for Transport of the case ran darbwyllo Network Rail a‘r Adran for electrification? Drafnidiaeth bod achos o blaid trydaneiddio?

Carl Sargeant: I welcome the new Secretary Carl Sargeant: Croesawaf gyfraniad of State for Wales‘s contribution to support Ysgrifennydd Gwladol newydd Cymru i the Welsh Government in developing the gefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu business case for the electrification of the achos busnes dros drydaneiddio prif linell north Wales line. As before, there must be rheilffordd gogledd Cymru. Fel o‘r blaen, cross-party agreement to develop this new rhaid sicrhau cytundeb trawsbleidiol er mwyn network. I have already met the Secretary of datblygu‘r rhwydwaith newydd hwn. Rwyf State for Transport in London. I hope to hold eisoes wedi cyfarfod â‘r Ysgrifennydd further discussions with representatives of Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth yn Llundain. Taith and north Wales authorities, and I have Rwy‘n gobeithio cynnal trafodaethau pellach met several Assembly Members and Members gyda chynrychiolwyr o Taith ac awdurdodau of Parliament regarding this issue to date. gogledd Cymru, ac rwyf wedi cyfarfod â nifer o Aelodau‘r Cynulliad ac Aelodau Seneddol ynghylch y mater hwn hyd yn hyn.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Byddwch yn Llyr Huws Gruffydd: You will be aware, ymwybodol, Weinidog, fod nifer o Minister, that there have been a number of ddamweiniau wedi bod ar yr A55 yn ystod y accidents on the A55 over the last few misoedd diwethaf. Mae hyn wedi creu pob months. This has created all manner of math o drafferthion o safbwynt symudoledd difficulties with regard to mobility along that trafnidiaeth ar hyd y llwybr hwnnw. A route. Would you agree that, while some fyddech yn cytuno, tra bo ambell un yn people are starting to make noises about the dechrau gwneud synau ynglŷn â‘r angen i need to widen the A55, rail electrification ledu‘r A55, y byddai trydaneiddio‘r across north Wales would be a way of taking rheilffordd ar draws y gogledd yn fodd o the pressure—or some of the pressure—away gymryd y pwysau—neu beth o‘r pwysau— from that road? We would all want to oddi ar y ffordd honno? Byddem i gyd am welcome that. groesawu hynny.

Carl Sargeant: I share the Member‘s view. Carl Sargeant: Cytunaf â barn yr Aelod.

Aled Roberts: Gofynnodd Dafydd Elis- Aled Roberts: Dafydd Elis-Thomas asked a Thomas gwestiwn ynglŷn ag integreiddio question about the integration of TrawsCymru gwasanaethau TrawsCymru gyda services with rail services. Have you gwasanaethau rheilffordd. A ydych wedi adequately influenced the timetable? At dylanwadu ar yr amserlen yn ddigonol? Ar present, if you travel from Lampeter to hyn o bryd, os ydych yn teithio o Lanbedr Bangor—as some students do—I understand Pont Steffan i Fangor—fel mae rhai that you must wait for an hour in Aberystwyth myfyrwyr yn ei wneud—deallaf fod yn rhaid for the new service, while the previous aros yn Aberystwyth am awr gyda‘r service meant a total journey time of some gwasanaeth newydd, lle, cyn hynny, dim ond five hours. rhyw bum awr yr oedd y daith yn ei gymryd.

Carl Sargeant: There are issues around Carl Sargeant: Mae problemau o ran timetabling; the Member is right to say that amserlennu; mae‘r Aelod yn llygad ei le yn

36 07/11/2012 we need to work with our partners to address dweud bod angen inni weithio gyda‘n that. One way in which we can address this is partneriaid i ymdrin â hynny. Un ffordd y that, when we invest £100 million plus in bus gallwn ymdrin â hyn yw sicrhau, pan fyddwn services in Wales, we have some leverage to yn buddsoddi £100 miliwn a mwy mewn designate what routes are acceptable and what gwasanaethau bysiau yng Nghymru, bod routes are not, and how we integrate them gennym rywfaint o hyblygrwydd i ddynodi pa between train and bus routes. I hope that the lwybrau sy‘n dderbyniol a pha lwybrau nad Member supports me in the principle of ydynt yn dderbyniol, a sut y gallwn eu directing companies to say when they should hintegreiddio rhwng llwybrau trenau a bysiau. be at the station to meet the train, as opposed Gobeithio bod yr Aelod yn fy nghefnogi o ran to giving them fuel subsidy, as other yr egwyddor o gyfarwyddo cwmnïau i nodi Members may wish to support today. pryd y dylent fod yn yr orsaf i gwrdd â‘r trên, yn hytrach na rhoi cymhorthdal tanwydd iddynt, fel y bydd Aelodau eraill o bosibl am ei gefnogi heddiw.

Blaenoriaethau Portffolio Portfolio Priorities

10. Antoinette Sandbach: A wnaiff y 10. Antoinette Sandbach: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am ei flaenoriaethau make a statement on his portfolio priorities portffolio ar gyfer Gogledd Cymru dros y 12 for North Wales in the next 12 months. mis nesaf. OAQ(4)0204(LGC) OAQ(4)0204(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for her Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei question. My priorities for the whole of Wales chwestiwn. Fy mlaenoriaethau ar gyfer are to deliver on our programme for Cymru gyfan yw cyflawni ymrwymiadau ein government commitments to reduce poverty, rhaglen lywodraethu, sef lleihau tlodi, to make our communities safer and to support gwneud ein cymunedau yn fwy diogel a helpu the delivery of effective and efficient public i ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol services across Wales. ac effeithlon ledled Cymru.

Antoinette Sandbach: The performance of Antoinette Sandbach: Mae perfformiad eich your department is, naturally, a matter of adran, yn naturiol, o gryn ddiddordeb i‘r significant public interest, as is your cyhoedd, felly hefyd benderfyniad eich Government‘s decision to spend hundreds of Llywodraeth i wario cannoedd ar filoedd o thousands of pounds on a delivery unit to bunnoedd ar uned gyflawni i fonitro‘r monitor this performance. Can you confirm perfformiad hwn. A allwch gadarnhau beth y what the Welsh Government‘s delivery unit mae uned gyflawni Llywodraeth Cymru has delivered for local government and wedi‘i gyflawni ar gyfer llywodraeth leol a transport so far during this Assembly, and thrafnidiaeth hyd yma yn ystod y Cynulliad what new work will you be taking forward hwn, a pha waith newydd y byddwch yn ei during the next 12 months as a result of the wneud yn ystod y 12 mis nesaf o ganlyniad i‘r delivery unit? uned gyflawni?

Carl Sargeant: The Member asks me about Carl Sargeant: Mae‘r Aelod yn holi am yr the delivery unit. She may wish to refer that uned gyflawni. Efallai yr hoffai gyfeirio‘r question to the First Minister, in respect of the cwestiwn hwnnw i‘r Prif Weinidog, gan mai responsibility for that unit. However, the ef sy‘n gyfrifol am yr uned honno. Fodd delivery unit features heavily in terms of bynnag, mae gan yr uned gyflawni ran bwysig ensuring that my department works across i‘w chwarae o ran sicrhau bod fy adran yn Government to ensure that interactions that I gweithio ar draws pob rhan o‘r Llywodraeth i have in my department match and support sicrhau bod y rhyngweithio yn fy adran i yn other interventions that other Ministers work cyd-fynd ag ymyriadau eraill y mae on too. Gweinidogion eraill yn gweithio arnynt hefyd, ac yn ategu‘r ymyriadau hynny.

37 07/11/2012

Gwelliannau Angenrheidiol i’r A494 Necessary Improvements to the A494

11. Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Pryd y mae 11. Llyr Huws Gruffydd: When does the Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu cwblhau’r Welsh Government intend to complete the gwelliannau angenrheidiol i’r A494 o necessary improvements to the A494 between Frynsaithmarchog i Wyddelwern. Brynsaithmarchog and Gwyddelwern. OAQ(4)0200(LGC) OAQ(4)0200(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei question. We are considering the feasibility of gwestiwn. Rydym yn ystyried dichonoldeb improvement on this junction. The timing of gwelliannau ar y gyffordd hon. Bydd any scheme will depend on the availability of amseriad unrhyw gynllun yn dibynnu ar yr funds and the priority against other schemes. arian sydd ar gael a‘r flaenoriaeth yn erbyn cynlluniau eraill.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Diolch am yr ateb. Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Thank you for that Mae‘n dweud cyfrolau, pan rydym yn sôn am reply. It speaks volumes, when talking about a drofa fel trofa Maes Gamedd, fel mae‘n cael junction such as the Maes Gamedd junction, ei hadnabod yng Ngwyddelwern, bod dwy as it is known in Gwyddelwern, that there ddamwain wedi bod yno ers i mi gyflwyno‘r have been two accidents there since I tabled cwestiwn yr wythnos diwethaf. Yn sgîl un o‘r this question last week. Following one of damweiniau, rhwng lori a bws, bu‘r brif those accidents, between a lorry and a bus, the ffordd o Ruthun i Gorwen ar gau o 10 a.m. main road between Rhuthin and was tan 4 p.m.. A ydych yn rhannu gofidiau closed from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.. Do you share trigolion lleol ynglŷn â pha mor wirioneddol the concerns of local people about the real beryglus yw‘r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd, ac a danger posed by the current situation, and will wnewch chi flaenoriaethu‘r rhan hon o‘r you prioritise this part of the A494 within A494 o fewn eich cyllideb, fel bod your budget, so that action is taken sooner gweithredu yn digwydd yn gynharach yn rather than later? hytrach nag yn hwyrach?

Carl Sargeant: Any intervention that we Carl Sargeant: Mae unrhyw ymyriad rydym make to upgrade or amend the style of road is yn ei wneud i uwchraddio neu newid y math o generally based on issues around safety— ffordd yn gyffredinol yn seiliedig ar faterion enhancing signage and road markings et sy‘n ymwneud â diogelwch—gwella cetera. Bearing in mind the issue that the arwyddion a marciau ffordd ac yn y blaen. O Member raises today, this is something that I ystyried y mater a godir gan yr Aelod heddiw, will ask my department to look at more mae hyn yn rhywbeth y gofynnaf i‘m hadran sensitively in the future. ei ystyried mewn ffordd fwy sensitif yn y dyfodol.

Darren Millar: As you know, this stretch of Darren Millar: Fel y gwyddoch, mae‘r darn the trunk road network is in my constituency, hwn o‘r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd yn fy and I have raised concerns about this junction etholaeth, ac rwyf wedi codi pryderon am y in the past. You will also be aware of some of gyffordd hon yn y gorffennol. Byddwch hefyd the subsidence that has taken place on the yn ymwybodol o achosion o ymsuddiant a fu A494. I know that there have been ar yr A494. Gwn fod trafodaethau wedi‘u discussions with a landowner in my cynnal gyda thirfeddiannwr yn fy etholaeth o constituency about trying to address the ran ceisio ymdrin â‘r problemau yno a‘r problems there and the options that you had opsiynau roeddech wedi‘u datblygu er mwyn developed in order to improve highway gwella diogelwch y briffordd. Deallaf fod safety. I understand that another option is now opsiwn arall bellach wedi‘i gyflwyno, a allai on the table, which could resolve this issue, ddatrys y mater hwn. Tybed a allech roi‘r and I wonder whether you could give us an wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am yr opsiwn

38 07/11/2012 update on that option here today. hwnnw heddiw.

Carl Sargeant: I am not able to update the Carl Sargeant: Ni allaf roi‘r wybodaeth Member on the specific item to which he ddiweddaraf i‘r Aelod am yr eitem benodol y refers today, but I will write to him mae‘n cyfeirio ati heddiw, ond ysgrifennaf ato accordingly. mewn ymateb i hynny.

Cyllido Bysiau Cyhoeddus Financing of Public Buses

12. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A wnaiff y 12. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllido bysiau make a statement on the financing of public cyhoeddus. OAQ(4)0202(LGC) buses. OAQ(4)0202(LGC)

Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for his Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod am ei question. I am committed to providing the gwestiwn. Rwy‘n ymrwymedig i ddarparu‘r best level of support for local bus services in lefel o gymorth orau i wasanaethau bws lleol Wales. This year, I am providing nearly £100 yng Nghymru. Eleni, rwy‘n darparu bron i million to support local bus and community £100 miliwn i gefnogi gwasanaethau bws a transport services and our flagship gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth cymunedol lleol concessionary travel scheme. This is a a‘n cynllun teithio rhatach blaenllaw. Mae significant outcome, given the very difficult hwn yn swm arwyddocaol, o ystyried y financial system that we find ourselves system ariannol anodd iawn rydym yn working within. gweithio o‘i mewn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Let us try this one Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Gadewch inni roi again, Minister. There is a difference between cynnig arall arni, Weinidog. Mae gwahaniaeth concessionary fares and free passes—I hope rhwng tocynnau teithio rhatach a thocynnau you understand that; if you do not, we are in teithio am ddim—gobeithio eich bod yn deall deep waters. In terms of concessionary fares, hynny; os nad ydych, rydym mewn dyfroedd will you now accept that bus operators are dyfnion. O ran tocynnau rhatach, a stating quite clearly that the way in which you dderbyniwch yn awr bod gweithredwyr have changed the system this year has led to a bysiau yn datgan yn gwbl glir bod y ffordd y situation where there are fewer services newidiwyd y system gennych eleni wedi available and where concessionary fares have arwain at sefyllfa lle mae llai o wasanaethau been increased, especially with regard to ar gael a lle mae pris tocynnau rhatach wedi children, on services throughout Wales? Will codi, yn enwedig o ran plant, ar wasanaethau you now accept responsibility for that? The ledled Cymru? A dderbyniwch gyfrifoldeb am bus operators themselves state quite clearly hynny yn awr? Mae‘r gweithredwyr bysiau eu that it is your responsibility. hunain yn datgan yn gwbl glir mai chi sy‘n gyfrifol am y sefyllfa.

Carl Sargeant: The Member raises the Carl Sargeant: Mae‘r Aelod yn codi‘r ddadl argument for private bus operators in Wales, dros weithredwyr bysiau preifat yng to which we contribute much initial funding. I Nghymru, yr ydym yn cyfrannu swm remind the Member that we made no changes sylweddol o arian cychwynnol atynt. Hoffwn to the bus service operators grant rate, to atgoffa‘r Aelod na wnaed unrhyw newidiadau concessionary fares or to the scheme. The bus gennym i gyfradd grant gweithredwyr bysiau, operators then increased their fares and i docynnau rhatach nac i‘r cynllun. Yna aeth y reduced services. Is that what the Member is gweithredwyr bysiau ati i godi prisiau eu here to stand up for today, or is he here to tocynnau ac i leihau gwasanaethau. Ai dyna y stand up for better routes for his constituents? mae‘r Aelod yn awyddus i‘w gefnogi yma He may want to reconsider his question. heddiw, neu a yw yma i gefnogi llwybrau gwell i‘w etholwyr? Efallai yr hoffai ailystyried ei gwestiwn.

39 07/11/2012

Antoinette Sandbach: People living in rural Antoinette Sandbach: Yn ogystal â chostau areas not only face a high cost of living, byw uchel, sydd ryw 20% yn uwch nag which is some 20% higher than in urban ardaloedd trefol, mae nifer sylweddol o bobl areas, but a considerable number also sy‘n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig hefyd yn experience transport poverty, due to wynebu tlodi trafnidiaeth, gan eu bod yn dependence on car transport and a lack of dibynnu ar geir a bod diffyg mynediad i access to a regular and reliable bus service. wasanaeth bws rheolaidd a dibynadwy. Wrth When addressing poor public transport ymdrin â mynediad gwael i drafnidiaeth access, which was a key issue in your gyhoeddus, a oedd yn fater allweddol yn eich programme for government, we are finding rhaglen lywodraethu, rydym yn gweld, mewn that, in regions outside the south-west Wales rhanbarthau y tu allan i ardal y de-orllewin, area, which is covered by Bwcabus, services lle mae gwasanaeth Bwcabus ar waith, bod continue to deteriorate. What work are you gwasanaethau yn parhau i ddirywio. Pa waith taking forward, therefore, to extend support sy‘n mynd rhagddo gennych, felly, i ehangu‘r for on-demand bus services to other rural cymorth ar gyfer gwasanaethau bws ar-alw i areas, particularly those in north Wales, ardaloedd gwledig eraill, yn enwedig y rheini which have had their funding cut by you? yn y gogledd, yr ydych wedi lleihau‘r arian a roddir iddynt?

2.45 p.m.

Carl Sargeant: You had a good start to the Carl Sargeant: Roedd dechrau da i‘ch question, but a bad ending. [Laughter.] It was cwestiwn, ond diweddglo gwael. [Chwerthin.] all going really well. The Bwcabws service is Roedd popeth yn mynd yn dda iawn. Mae exceptionally well thought of; it is an parch mawr tuag at wasanaeth Bwcabws; excellent service and I am grateful that the mae‘n wasanaeth ardderchog ac rwy‘n Member is supportive of it. I would like to ddiolchgar bod yr Aelod yn ei gefnogi. extend it to other areas, depending upon Hoffwn ehangu‘r gwasanaeth i ardaloedd funding. The Member is right to say that the eraill, gan ddibynnu ar y sefyllfa ariannol. funding for the transport department is Mae‘r Aelod yn llygad ei lle wrth ddweud reducing; that is as a consequence of £2.1 bod yr arian a gaiff yr adran drafnidiaeth yn billion less from the UK Government that the lleihau: mae hynny‘n deillio o‘r ffaith ein bod Member is supportive of. yn cael £2.1 biliwn yn llai gan Lywodraeth y DU, y mae‘r Aelod yn ei chefnogi.

Trefniadau Llywodraethu Governance Arrangements

13. Ieuan Wyn Jones: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 13. Ieuan Wyn Jones: Will the Minister make ddatganiad am drefniadau llywodraethu a statement on governance arrangement in mewn awdurdodau lleol. OAQ(4)0194(LGC) local authorities. OAQ(4)0194(LGC) Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for Ynys Carl Sargeant: Diolch i‘r Aelod dros Ynys Môn for his question. Governance Môn am ei gwestiwn. Atgyfnerthwyd arrangements in local authorities have been trefniadau llywodraethu mewn awdurdodau strengthened by the introduction of the Local lleol drwy gyflwyno Mesur Llywodraeth Government (Wales) Measure 2011. I have Leol (Cymru) 2011. Rwyf hefyd wedi also allocated funding to increase the capacity dyrannu cyllid i wella gallu aelodau a of members and officers to carry out more swyddogion i gyflawni gwaith craffu mwy effective scrutiny and further ensure the effeithiol ac i sicrhau ymhellach atebolrwydd accountability of the executive. y weithrediaeth.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Diolch yn fawr i‘r Ieuan Wyn Jones: I thank the Minister for Gweinidog am ei ateb. Mae‘n debyg y that response. I am sure that he will have byddai‘n rhagdybio y byddai gennyf anticipated that I will have a question on gwestiwn ynglŷn â‘r trefniant llywodraethu governance arrangements in Anglesey

40 07/11/2012 yng Nghyngor Sir Ynys Môn yn sgîl y County Council in light of the decision to penderfyniad i leihau nifer y comisiynwyr ac i reduce the number of commissioners and to sefydlu bwrdd adfer ynglŷn â‘r gwasanaeth put in a recovery board in terms of the addysg. Mae tipyn o aneglurder, o‘i roi‘n education service. There is a lack of clarity, garedig, ynglŷn â phwy sy‘n gyfrifol am beth to put it kindly, in terms of who is now ar yr ynys yn awr. A fyddai‘r Gweinidog yn responsible for what on the island. Would the fodlon ysgrifennu ataf gan osod allan yn Minister be willing to write to me setting out union beth yw cyfrifoldebau‘r comisiynwyr exactly what the responsibilities of the new newydd ac ar ba sail y gallent ymyrryd gyda commissioners are and on what basis they phenderfyniad y pwyllgor gwaith? Yn ail, would be able to intervene with decisions beth yn union yw cyfrifoldeb y bwrdd adfer ar taken by the executive? Secondly, what addysg a phwy sydd â‘r cyfrifoldeb pennaf exactly are the responsibilities of the am osod cyfeiriad strategol addysg ar gyfer y education recovery board and who now has sir? the main responsibility for setting the strategic direction for education in the county?

Carl Sargeant: I am grateful for the Carl Sargeant: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am Member‘s question, and I will be more than gwestiwn yr Aelod, a byddwn yn fwy na happy to write to him with the details that he pharod i ysgrifennu ato gyda‘r manylion y has requested. I refer him also to the gofynnodd amdanynt. Hoffwn ei gyfeirio statements that I made earlier with regard to hefyd at y datganiadau a wneuthum yn the return of powers to the council, but I also gynharach ynglŷn â dychwelyd pwerau i‘r extend an invitation to the Member for a cyngor, ond hoffwn hefyd wahodd yr Aelod meeting, should he wish it, with my am gyfarfod, os hoffai hynny, gyda‘m hadran department to explain further on any i roi esboniad pellach o ran unrhyw questions that he may have. gwestiynau a allai fod ganddo.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Collaboration Janet Finch-Saunders: Mae cydweithio between local authorities is very much a rhwng awdurdodau lleol yn sicr yn nodwedd hallmark of your tenure as Minister for local amlwg o‘ch cyfnod fel Gweinidog government. However, concerns remain as to Llywodraeth Leol. Fodd bynnag, erys whether you are driving this agenda forward pryderon o ran pa un a ydych yn hyrwyddo‘r or whether you have any real involvement in agenda hon neu pa un a oes gennych unrhyw it. If that is the case, will you please provide gyfranogiad gwirioneddol ynddi. Os felly, a us with an update on the north Wales CCTV allwch roi‘r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am project, to include what has happened and brosiect CCTV gogledd Cymru, gan where exactly the £805,000 of Welsh gynnwys yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd a ble yn taxpayers‘ money that has been allocated to union y mae‘r £805,000 o arian trethdalwyr the scheme has gone? Will you give us a Cymru a ddyrannwyd i‘r cynllun wedi mynd? progress update, please? A wnewch roi adroddiad ar gynnydd inni, os gwelwch yn dda?

Carl Sargeant: I will write to the Member Carl Sargeant: Ysgrifennaf at yr Aelod am y regarding that specific scheme. On the basis cynllun penodol hwnnw. O gofio bod that we have many hundreds of collaborative gennym gannoedd lawer o gynlluniau schemes, the Member will understand that I cydweithredol, bydd yr Aelod yn deall nad do not have the detail on every one of them yw manylion pob un ohonynt gennyf wrth now. However, I will write to the Member law. Fodd bynnag, ysgrifennaf at yr Aelod accordingly. Collaboration deals and mewn ymateb i hynny. Caiff cytundebau collaboration are driven by my department, cydweithredol a threfniadau cydweithio eu but owned by the people who wish to hysgogi gan fy adran, ond y bobl sy‘n collaborate. I am glad that many authorities awyddus i gydweithio sy‘n berchen arnynt. across north Wales and across the whole of Rwy‘n falch bod llawer o awdurdodau ledled Wales wish to collaborate, but there are some gogledd Cymru a ledled Cymru gyfan yn

41 07/11/2012 that could do better. awyddus i gydweithio, ond mae rhai a allai wneud yn well.

The Presiding Officer: Question 14, Y Llywydd: Tynnwyd cwestiwn 14, OAQ(4)0206(LGC), has been withdrawn. OAQ(4)0206(LGC), yn ôl.

Datganiad: Cyflwyno Bil Arfaethedig Aelod—Bil Safleoedd Rheoleiddiedig Cartrefi Symudol (Cymru) Statement: Introduction of a Member Proposed Bill—the Regulated Mobile Home Sites (Wales) (Bill)

Peter Black: On Thursday 25 October, I laid Peter Black: Ddydd Iau 25 Hydref, gosodais the Regulated Mobile Home Sites (Wales) Fil Safleoedd Rheoleiddiedig Cartrefi Bill, together with an explanatory Symudol (Cymru), ynghyd â memorandwm memorandum, before the National Assembly esboniadol, gerbron Cynulliad Cenedlaethol for Wales. I have also issued a written Cymru. Rwyf hefyd wedi cyhoeddi datganiad statement, and I am pleased to introduce the ysgrifenedig, ac rwy‘n falch o gyflwyno‘r Bil Bill for Assembly Members‘ consideration i‘w ystyried gan Aelodau‘r Cynulliad today. I want to acknowledge the support and heddiw. Hoffwn gydnabod cymorth a gwaith hard work put into producing this Bill by caled staff Comisiwn y Cynulliad a‘m Assembly Commission staff and my hymchwilwyr, sydd wedi gweithio gyda mi i researchers, who have worked with me to gynhyrchu‘r Bil hwn. Dylwn hefyd gydnabod produce it. I should also acknowledge the cymorth y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a support of the Minister for Housing, Threftadaeth. Er mai Bil Aelod yw hwn, mae Regeneration and Heritage. Although this is a wedi caniatáu i‘w swyddogion weithio gyda Member‘s Bill, he has allowed his officials to mi arno, ac mae eu sylwadau adeiladol a work with me on it, and their constructive chwestiynau treiddgar wedi bod yn comments and searching questions have been amhrisiadwy wrth gynhyrchu‘r Bil. invaluable in producing the Bill.

A formal consultation was undertaken prior Cynhaliwyd ymgynghoriad ffurfiol cyn to the drafting of this Bill, and I also drafftio‘r Bil hwn, a chynhaliais arolwg conducted a survey of 2,008 park home hefyd o 2,008 o drigolion cartrefi mewn residents, which elicited 906 responses. The parciau, a ysgogodd 906 o ymatebion. responses indicated that over 95% of these Dynododd yr ymatebion fod dros 95% o‘r residents are older than 55 years of age, and trigolion hyn dros 55 mlwydd oed, a bod more than half are above the age of 70. Over mwy na‘u hanner dros 70 oed. Dywedodd 86% of respondents said that they were mwy na 86% o‘r ymatebwyr eu bod wedi retired, suggesting that many are on a fixed ymddeol, gan awgrymu bod llawer ar incwm income. It is clear from all the research sefydlog. Mae‘n amlwg o‘r holl ymchwil a undertaken that a number of park home wnaed yr ystyrir bod nifer o drigolion cartrefi residents will be considered to be vulnerable mewn parciau yn agored i niwed oherwydd because of age or ill health. That is why oedran neu afiechyd. Dyna pam mae reports of harassment, intimidation, adroddiadau o aflonyddu, brawychu, cam- exploitation, and sharp practice by a small fanteisio, ac ymarfer diegwyddor gan leiafrif minority of site operators are so disturbing. bach o weithredwyr safle yn peri cymaint o Many residents have reported that they do not bryder. Mae llawer o drigolion wedi dweud feel that they have the protection of the law nad ydynt yn teimlo eu bod yn cael and the support of local councils in diogelwch gan y gyfraith a chefnogaeth countering such practices. It is the reason that cynghorau lleol pan ddônt ar draws arferion I and others believe that this Bill is necessary. o‘r fath. Dyma‘r rheswm pam fy mod i ac eraill o‘r farn bod y Bil hwn yn angenrheidiol.

42 07/11/2012

The Bill will create a licensing regime that is Bydd y Bil yn creu cyfundrefn drwyddedu a modern, fit-for-purpose framework that can sy‘n fframwaith modern, yn addas at y diben be consistently implemented across Wales. y gellir ei roi ar waith yn gyson ledled Local authorities will remain the licensing Cymru. Awdurdodau lleol fydd yr authorities, but there will be a new statutory awdurdodau trwyddedu o hyd, ond bydd duty for them to consider exercising their dyletswydd statudol newydd iddynt ystyried powers of collaboration with other local arfer eu pwerau cydweithio ag awdurdodau authorities when licensing regulated sites. lleol eraill wrth drwyddedu safleoedd a Such arrangements could allow expertise to reoleiddir. Gallai trefniadau o‘r fath olygu y be shared and costs to be reduced. It may also gellir rhannu arbenigedd a lleihau costau. simplify record-keeping requirements, such Efallai y byddant hefyd yn symleiddio‘r as details of licensed sites and copies of site gofynion cadw cofnodion, megis manylion rules. safleoedd trwyddedig a chopïau o reolau‘r safle.

Authorised agents or officers of licensing Bydd gan asiantau awdurdodedig neu authorities will have powers of entry should swyddogion awdurdodau trwyddedu bwerau they need to enter a regulated site for matters mynediad os bydd angen iddynt fynd i mewn connected with licensing. Local authorities i safle a reoleiddir ar gyfer materion sy‘n will be permitted to charge a fee for gysylltiedig â thrwyddedu. Bydd gan processing and issuing a site licence, which awdurdodau lleol hawl i godi ffi am brosesu a will last for up to five years, but be renewable chyhoeddi trwydded safle, a fydd yn para am thereafter. hyd at bum mlynedd, ond gellir ei adnewyddu ar ôl hynny.

Currently, licensing authorities have no Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes gan awdurdodau discretion to refuse an application. The Bill trwyddedu unrhyw ddisgresiwn i wrthod cais. will permit a local authority to refuse to grant Bydd y Bil yn caniatáu i awdurdod lleol a licence where it is not satisfied as to certain wrthod rhoi trwydded os nad yw‘n fodlon matters outlined in the Bill. The licensing ynghylch materion penodol a amlinellir yn y authority will also ensure that a site meets the Bil. Bydd yr awdurdod trwyddedu hefyd yn standards set down by regulation for the sicrhau bod safle yn bodloni‘r safonau a stationing of the agreed number of mobile bennwyd gan reoliad ar gyfer lleoli‘r nifer o homes, while the site licence will include a gartrefi symudol y cytunwyd arni, er y bydd number of mandatory conditions. y drwydded safle yn cynnwys nifer o amodau gorfodol.

In order to be granted a licence the owner and Er mwyn cael trwydded, bydd angen i‘r manager, or other persons involved in the perchennog a‘r rheolwr, neu unigolion eraill management of the site, will need to pass a fit sy‘n ymwneud â‘r gwaith o reoli‘r safle, and proper person test. There will be a duty basio prawf unigolyn addas a phriodol. Bydd on local authorities to request sufficient dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol i ofyn am information from applicants for a licence to wybodaeth ddigonol gan ymgeiswyr am determine whether the licence holder and any drwydded i benderfynu a yw deiliad y person involved in the management of the drwydded ac unrhyw unigolyn sy‘n site are fit and proper persons. This test will ymwneud â‘r gwaith o reoli‘r safle yn consider relevant criminal offences, unigolion addas a phriodol. Bydd y prawf contraventions of any provision of relevant hwn yn ystyried troseddau perthnasol, legislation, as well as any breaches of any achosion o dorri unrhyw ddarpariaeth o code of practice or regulations made under ddeddfwriaeth berthnasol, yn ogystal ag provisions in this Bill that relate to the unrhyw achosion o dorri unrhyw god ymarfer management of sites. neu reoliadau a wneir o dan ddarpariaethau yn y Bil hwn sy‘n ymwneud â rheoli safleoedd.

43 07/11/2012

As the site rules will form part of the licence, Oherwydd y bydd rheolau‘r safle yn ffurfio in future they may only be changed following rhan o‘r drwydded, yn y dyfodol dim ond ar consultation with occupiers and, if one exists, ôl ymgynghori â deiliaid ac unrhyw any qualifying residents association. The gymdeithas trigolion cymwys, os oes un yn licensing authority will need to be satisfied bodoli, y gellir eu newid. Bydd angen i‘r that the majority of occupiers agree to the awdurdod trwyddedu fod yn fodlon bod variation. The Bill outlines a number of mwyafrif y deiliaid yn cytuno i‘r amrywiad. circumstances where the licensing authority Mae‘r Bil yn amlinellu nifer o amgylchiadau may consider revoking a site licence either on lle gall yr awdurdod trwyddedu ystyried its own initiative or, in certain cases, at the diddymu trwydded safle naill ai o‘i ben a‘i request of a qualifying residents association. bastwn ei hun neu, mewn rhai achosion, ar As an alternative to revocation, the licensing gais cymdeithas preswylwyr cymwys. Fel authority may instead appoint an interim dewis arall i ddiddymiad, gall yr awdurdod manager. trwyddedu yn hytrach benodi rheolwr dros dro.

Site owners will have a right of appeal in Bydd gan berchenogion safleoedd hawl i relation to the decisions of licensing apelio mewn perthynas â phenderfyniadau authorities to the residential property tribunal. awdurdodau trwyddedu i‘r tribiwnlys eiddo In addition, the licensing authority or the preswyl. Yn ogystal, gall yr awdurdod licence holder may refer certain matters to trwyddedu neu ddeiliad y drwydded gyfeirio the tribunal to decide any disputes about the rhai materion at y tribiwnlys i benderfynu ar extent of any works, the time limits specified unrhyw anghydfod ynghylch maint unrhyw in the notice, whether the work has been waith, y terfynau amser a bennir yn yr completed before the authority executed the hysbysiad, p‘un a yw‘r gwaith wedi‘i works, and the reasonable costs incurred. gwblhau cyn i‘r awdurdod gyflawni‘r gwaith, a‘r costau rhesymol yr eir iddynt.

The Bill will introduce far more realistic Bydd y Bil yn cyflwyno cosbau llawer mwy penalties for the breach of licensing realistig am dorri amodau trwyddedu a conditions and other offences. It will also throseddau eraill. Bydd hefyd yn cyflwyno introduce a repayment order provision darpariaeth gorchmynion ad-dalu lle gellir whereby site operators who sell and collect gorchymyn gweithredwyr safleoedd sy‘n pitch fees, or collect commission on sales for gwerthu ac yn casglu ffioedd lleiniau, neu‘n unlicensed sites, may be ordered to repay casglu comisiwn ar werthiannau ar gyfer these moneys, together with any reasonable safleoedd heb drwydded, i ad-dalu‘r arian costs incurred. Local authorities will also be hwn, ynghyd ag unrhyw gostau rhesymol yr able to issue a fixed penalty as an alternative eir iddynt. Bydd awdurdodau lleol hefyd yn to prosecution for certain offences. gallu cyhoeddi cosb benodedig fel dewis Provisions for the recognition of a qualifying amgen i erlyn am droseddau penodol. Mae‘r residents association remain as present; darpariaethau ar gyfer cydnabod cymdeithas however, the Bill amends the 1983 Act to drigolion gymwys yn aros fel y maent; fodd require a membership list, which should be bynnag, mae‘r Bil yn diwygio Deddf 1983 i up to date, to be presented to the licensing gynnwys yr angen i restr aelodaeth, a ddylai authority and not made public. The gael ei diweddaru‘n rheolaidd, gael ei association‘s rules and constitution will also chyflwyno i‘r awdurdod trwyddedu ac na be held by the local authority, but these will ddylai gael ei chyhoeddi. Bydd rheolau a be open to public inspection. chyfansoddiad y gymdeithas yn cael eu cynnal gan yr awdurdod lleol hefyd, ond bydd y rhain yn agored i‘r cyhoedd eu harchwilio.

The Bill makes provision for rights of Mae‘r Bil yn darparu ar gyfer hawliau succession, so that any person who is a olyniaeth, fel bod gan unrhyw unigolyn sy‘n

44 07/11/2012 widow, widower, surviving civil partner or wraig weddw, yn ŵr gweddw, yn bartner sifil other family member, if there is no widow et sydd wedi goroesi neu‘n aelod arall o‘r teulu, cetera, and living in the mobile home as their os nad oes gwraig weddw ac ati, ac yn byw only or main residence, will be entitled to yn y cartref symudol fel ei unig neu brif take over the written agreement. breswylfa, hawl i gymryd y cytundeb ysgrifenedig drosodd.

Under the terms of the Bill, pitch fees will O dan delerau‘r Bil, dim ond yn unol â‘r only be able to be increased in line with the mynegai prisiau defnyddwyr, sef y mesur y consumer price index, which is the measure mae pensiynau wedi‘u cysylltu ag ef ar hyn o that pensions are currently linked to, rather bryd, yn hytrach na‘r mynegai prisiau than the higher retail prices index. There are manwerthu uwch, y gellir codi ffioedd provisions as to what must be taken into lleiniau. Mae darpariaethau ynghylch yr hyn account when calculating any increase or y mae‘n rhaid ei ystyried wrth gyfrifo decrease in the pitch fee, while the Bill also unrhyw gynnydd neu ostyngiad yn y ffi llain, specifies that the site operator must not pass ac mae‘r Bil hefyd yn nodi na ddylai on any costs that are incurred by them in gweithredwr y safle drosglwyddo unrhyw order to implement changes made by it. gostau yr eir iddynt ganddo er mwyn gweithredu newidiadau a wneir ganddo.

The Bill seeks to clarify the law as to when a Mae‘r Bil yn ceisio egluro‘r gyfraith o ran mobile home owner can make internal pryd y gall perchennog cartref symudol alterations to their home, and under what wneud newidiadau mewnol i‘w cartref, ac o circumstances a site operator can relocate a dan ba amgylchiadau y gall gweithredwr mobile home to a different pitch. Unless there safle adleoli cartref symudol i lain wahanol. is a need for an urgent relocation, this will Oni bai bod angen adleoli ar frys, bydd hyn require the agreement of both parties or the yn gofyn am gytundeb y ddwy ochr neu consent of the residential property tribunal. I ganiatâd y tribiwnlys eiddo preswyl. hope that, following detailed scrutiny and Gobeithiaf, yn dilyn craffu manwl a dadl, y debate, this Bill will command the support of bydd y Bil hwn ennyn cefnogaeth y the Assembly. I look forward to working with Cynulliad. Edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gydag Members over the next few months to make Aelodau dros y misoedd nesaf i wireddu that a reality. hynny.

The Minister for Housing, Regeneration Y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth and Heritage (Huw Lewis): The Welsh (Huw Lewis): Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn Government welcomes Peter‘s statement croesawu datganiad Peter heddiw a‘r Bil sydd today and the Bill that has been formally laid wedi cael ei osod yn ffurfiol gerbron y before the Assembly. The effort that Peter Cynulliad. Mae‘r ymdrech y mae Peter wedi has put into the task of producing this Bill is ei roi i‘r dasg o gynhyrchu‘r Bil hwn yn cael fully appreciated. We would like a few points ei werthfawrogi‘n llawn. Hoffem i rai to be considered. pwyntiau gael eu hystyried.

The explanatory memorandum that Mae‘r memorandwm esboniadol sy‘n cyd- accompanies the Bill lists 16 regulation, fynd â‘r Bil yn rhestru 16 o reoliadau, Order and guidance powers, including Gorchmynion a phwerau arwain, gan commencement, that the Welsh Government gynnwys Gorchmynion cychwyn, y bydd will need to make in order to fully describe angen i Lywodraeth Cymru eu gwneud er and implement the new site licensing mwyn disgrifio‘r cynllun trwyddedu safle scheme—a hefty total. The question is newydd yn llawn a‘i roi ar waith—cyfanswm whether scrutiny of the Bill will require more sylweddol. Y cwestiwn yw a fydd craffu ar y than merely empowering the Welsh Bil yn golygu mwy na dim ond grymuso Government to make these items of Llywodraeth Cymru i wneud y rhain yn secondary legislation, and we would ask eitemau o is-ddeddfwriaeth, a byddem yn whether Peter has fully considered that. It is gofyn a yw Peter wedi ystyried hynny‘n

45 07/11/2012 quite clear that there is still some work to be llawn. Mae‘n gwbl glir bod yna rywfaint o done around finalising the content of the Bill, waith i‘w wneud o hyd mewn perthynas â and this is particularly the case where the chwblhau cynnwys y Bil, ac mae hyn yn transitional arrangements for movement from arbennig o wir lle mae‘r trefniadau trosiannol the existing site licensing regime to the new ar gyfer symud o‘r drefn trwyddedu safle arrangements are concerned. It is not really bresennol i‘r trefniadau newydd yn y apparent whether Mr Black intends the new cwestiwn. Nid yw‘n glir iawn a yw Mr Black licensing regime to involve revoking the yn bwriadu i‘r gyfundrefn drwyddedu existing site licensing system, or whether it newydd gynnwys diddymu‘r system should just apply to new applications for site trwyddedu safle bresennol, neu a ddylai ond licences. Clarification on that point would be bod yn berthnasol i geisiadau newydd am very helpful. drwyddedau safle. Byddai eglurhad ar y pwynt hwnnw‘n ddefnyddiol iawn.

It might also be useful for colleagues to have Gallai hefyd fod yn ddefnyddiol i gyd- more of an idea about the basis of how the Aelodau gael mwy o syniad ynghylch sail sut figures in the explanatory memorandum y daethpwyd i‘r ffigurau yn y memorandwm associated with implementing the new site esboniadol sy‘n gysylltiedig â gweithredu‘r licensing regime have been arrived at. The gyfundrefn trwyddedu safle newydd. Byddai Welsh Government would also value Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn gwerthfawrogi comments on the potential effect that the new cael sylwadau ar yr effaith bosibl y mae‘r site licensing arrangements are likely to have trefniadau trwyddedu safle newydd yn on mixed sites, where the existing licence debygol o‘i chael ar safleoedd cymysg, lle covers holiday accommodation and a mae‘r drwydded bresennol yn cwmpasu llety specified number of units that are licensed for gwyliau a nifer benodol o unedau sydd permanent accommodation. I will again take wedi‘u trwyddedu ar gyfer llety parhaol. this opportunity to reiterate the Welsh Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn unwaith eto i Government‘s supportive stance regarding ategu safbwynt cefnogol Llywodraeth Cymru Peter Black‘s Bill, and we look forward to o ran Bil Peter Black, ac edrychwn ymlaen at working co-operatively to produce good law gydweithio i greu cyfraith dda ar y mater on this issue. hwn.

Peter Black: I thank the Minister for his Peter Black: Diolch i‘r Gweinidog am ei remarks and again for stating his support for sylwadau ac eto am ddatgan ei gefnogaeth i‘r the Bill and the principles behind it. I would Bil a‘r egwyddorion y tu ôl iddo. Hoffwn like to deal briefly with some of the points ymdrin yn fyr â rhai o‘r pwyntiau a godwyd that he raised. ganddo.

The Minister is quite correct that there are 14 Mae‘r Gweinidog yn hollol iawn bod 14 o regulation- and Order-making powers within bwerau llunio rheoliadau a Gorchmynion yn the Bill, and there is also provision for two y Bil, a bod yna hefyd ddarpariaeth ar gyfer sets of guidance. Clearly, there is a lot of dwy set o ganllawiau. Yn amlwg, mae llawer detail involved in this licensing regime, not o fanylion yn gysylltiedig â‘r gyfundrefn all of which can be put on the face of the Bill. drwyddedu hon, ac na ellir rhoi pob un I would like to point out that not all of the ohonynt ar wyneb y Bil. Hoffwn nodi nad oes regulation powers need to be taken up by the raid i‘r Gweinidog gymryd yr holl bwerau Minister; some of them are discretionary, for rheoleiddio; mae rhai ohonynt yn ddewisol, example, the one whereby the Minister can er enghraifft, yr un lle y gall y Gweinidog vary the amount of the fixed fee. He can amrywio swm y ffi sefydlog. Gall adael y ffi leave it at £100, which is on the face of the yn £100, sydd ar wyneb y Bil, neu gall ei Bill, or he can change it at some point later newid ar ryw bwynt yn nes ymlaen. Yn on. Obviously, I have had discussions with amlwg, rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda‘r the Minister and his civil servants about this, Gweinidog a‘i weision sifil am hyn, ac rwyf and I have indicated that I am happy to work wedi nodi fy mod yn hapus i weithio gyda with them in bringing forward amendments at nhw i gyflwyno gwelliannau yng Nghyfnod 2

46 07/11/2012

Stage 2 of the Bill if we can reduce the y Bil os gallwn leihau nifer y rheoliadau. number of regulations. I am happy to give Rwy‘n barod i roi‘r addewid hwnnw eto. that undertaking again. However, the Fodd bynnag, nid oes llawer o adnoddau ar resources available to me as an individual gael i mi fel Aelod unigol, a byddwn yn Member are not substantial, and I would be dibynnu gryn dipyn ar weision sifil a relying quite a lot on the Minister‘s civil swyddogion y Gweinidog i gyflwyno‘r servants and officials to come forward with diwygiadau hynny a‘m helpu i‘w ddrafftio, those amendments and to help me draft them, os mai dyna beth yr ydym ei eisiau. Mae gen if that is what we want. I have a meeting with i gyfarfod â swyddogion y Gweinidog yr the Minister‘s officials next week to discuss wythnos nesaf i drafod y mater hwnnw that issue further. ymhellach.

In terms of licensing, residential sites still O ran trwyddedu, mae‘n rhaid i safleoedd have to be licensed under the Caravan Sites preswyl gael eu trwyddedu o hyd o dan and Control of Development Act 1960, but Ddeddf Safleoedd Carafanau a Rheoli they will also have to be licensed under the Datblygu 1960, ond bydd yn rhaid iddynt new regime. The 1960 Act is primarily a hefyd gael eu trwyddedu o dan y gyfundrefn rubber-stamping exercise concerned with newydd. Ymarfer rhoi sêl bendith yw Deddf whether the appropriate planning permission 1960 yn bennaf, sy‘n ymwneud â ph‘un a is in place. As I indicated in my statement, yw‘r caniatâd cynllunio priodol yn ei le. Fel y local authorities cannot turn down an nodais yn fy natganiad, ni all awdurdodau application for a licence under that particular lleol wrthod cais am drwydded o dan y Act. The new regime, as proposed in the Bill, Ddeddf benodol honno. Byddai‘r drefn would primarily be concerned with the newydd, fel y cynigir yn y Bil, yn ymwneud suitability of the applicant. As such, I would yn bennaf ag addasrwydd yr ymgeisydd. Fel envisage that every site operator around y cyfryw, byddwn yn rhagweld y byddai Wales would need to apply, once this Bill angen i bob gweithredwr safle ledled Cymru comes into force. There would need to be a wneud cais, unwaith y bydd y Bil hwn yn period of grace to allow them to do that dod i rym. Byddai angen cael cyfnod o ras i before the Bill can be implemented properly. ganiatáu iddynt wneud hynny cyn y gellir I would envisage that all 92 sites would have cyflwyno‘r Bil yn iawn. Byddwn yn a licensed owner operating them. rhagweld y byddai gan bob un o‘r 92 o safleoedd berchennog trwyddedig yn eu gweithredu.

3.00 p.m.

With regard to the figures—sorry, I will go O ran y ffigurau—mae‘n ddrwg gennyf, on to the mixed sites. There is provision in symudaf ymlaen i‘r safleoedd cymysg. Mae the Bill for mixed sites. Right at the very darpariaeth yn y Bil ar gyfer safleoedd beginning of the Bill, there is a provision for cymysg. Ar ddechrau‘r Bil, mae darpariaeth a part of a site to be licensed where part of ar gyfer trwyddedu rhan o safle lle mae rhan the site is for holiday homes and part is o‘r safle ar gyfer cartrefi gwyliau a rhan ar residential; only the residential part will need gyfer cartrefi preswyl; dim ond y rhan to be included. I take the Minister‘s point breswyl y bydd angen ei chynnwys. Rwy‘n with regard to costings. We have done a lot derbyn pwynt y Gweinidog o ran costau. of work to try to get the costings as accurate Rydym wedi gwneud llawer o waith i geisio as possible. A lot of it is going to be sicrhau bod y costau mor gywir â phosibl. speculative, because it depends on decisions Bydd llawer o hyn yn hapfasnachol, gan ei that he will have to take, particularly in fod yn dibynnu ar benderfyniadau y bydd yn relation to the level of fees that local rhaid iddo eu cymryd, yn enwedig mewn authorities will charge for the licences. perthynas â lefel y ffioedd y bydd However, we have a lot of detail in the Bill, awdurdodau lleol yn eu codi am y which I am happy to be scrutinised on at the trwyddedau. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym committee stage, and I would contend that we lawer o fanylion yn y Bil, yr wyf yn hapus

47 07/11/2012 have more detail in the costings than there iddynt gael eu craffu yn ystod y cam has been in a number of Government Bills pwyllgor, a byddwn yn dadlau bod mwy o that I have scrutinised in the past. fanylion yn y costau nag a fu mewn nifer o Filiau Seneddol yr wyf wedi craffu arnynt yn y gorffennol.

Mark Isherwood: We recognise the Mark Isherwood: Rydym yn cydnabod yr harassment, intimidation and exploitation that achosion o aflonyddu, brawychu a cham- you detail. Thank you for bringing forward fanteisio a nodwch. Diolch am gyflwyno‘r this Bill and for the hard work that you and Bil hwn ac am y gwaith caled rydych chi a so many others have put into this. We also chymaint o bobl eraill wedi‘i roi i mewn i welcome the fact that site owners will have a hyn. Rydym hefyd yn croesawu‘r ffaith y right of appeal to the residential property bydd gan berchnogion safle hawl i apelio i‘r tribunal, recognising, as you say, that only a tribiwnlys eiddo preswyl, gan gydnabod, fel y small minority of site operators are guilty of dywedwch, mai dim ond lleiafrif bach o the worst offences. We support the proposals weithredwyr safle sy‘n euog o‘r troseddau for a more robust site licensing regime and gwaethaf. Rydym yn cefnogi‘r cynigion ar for a fit-and-proper-person test. Do you gyfer cyfundrefn trwyddedu safle fwy cadarn envisage that that test will include a Criminal ac ar gyfer prawf unigolion addas a phriodol. Records Bureau check? Will it take account A ydych yn rhagweld y bydd y prawf yn of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, cynnwys gwiriad gan y Swyddfa Cofnodion which enables some criminal convictions to Troseddol? A fydd yn ystyried Deddf be ignored after a rehabilitation period? Ailsefydlu Troseddwyr 1974, sy‘n sicrhau y gellir anwybyddu rhai collfarnau troseddol ar ôl cyfnod ailsefydlu?

We welcome the removal of the site Rydym yn croesawu‘r cam i ddileu feto‘r operators‘ veto on the sale of a home. That gweithredwyr safle ar werthu cartref. Byddai would also apply to a person who might hynny hefyd yn gymwys i unigolyn a allai acquire a home and come onto the site— gael cartref a dod ar y safle—ar hyn o bryd, currently owners can, in effect, veto gall perchenogion, i bob pwrpas, atal individuals or households from coming onto unigolion neu aelwydydd rhag dod i‘r safle. the site. However, what consideration have Fodd bynnag, pa ystyriaethau a roddwyd you given to a role for the residents gennych i roi rôl i‘r gymdeithas trigolion o association in terms of overcoming concerns ran goresgyn pryderon a fynegwyd gan expressed by the British Holiday and Home Gymdeithas Parciau Gwyliau a Pharciau Park Association and others that there needs Cartrefi Prydain ac eraill bod angen rhyw to be some sort of mechanism to ensure that fath o ddull o sicrhau nad yw pobl na fyddai‘r people who would not be welcome to the rhan fwyaf o‘r trigolion lleol yn eu croesawu majority of the local resident population do yn dod ar y safle? A oes rôl i drigolion, yn not come onto the site? Is there a role for hytrach na pherchnogion safle, yn yr residents, as opposed to the site owners, in amgylchiadau hynny? Sut ydych chi‘n those circumstances? How do you respond to ymateb i‘r galwadau ychwanegol gan Lais the additional calls by Consumer Focus Defnyddwyr Cymru ynglŷn â nifer o Wales with regard to a number of matters—I faterion—ni wnaf eu rhestru i gyd oherwydd will not list them all as I am sure that you rwy‘n siŵr eich bod wedi gweld ei bapur—ei have seen its paper—that it is keen for you to fod yn awyddus ichi gynnwys, yn seiliedig ar include, based on the detailed research that it y gwaith ymchwil manwl a wnaeth ac rydych undertook and that you have incorporated wedi ei ymgorffori yn eich gwaith? into your work?

I have three final points. With regard to Mae gennyf dri phwynt terfynol. O ran utilities, how will your proposals address the cyfleustodau, sut y bydd eich cynigion yn concerns highlighted by Consumer Focus mynd i‘r afael â‘r pryderon a amlygwyd gan Wales that one of the biggest concerns for Lais Defnyddwyr Cymru, sef mai un o‘r

48 07/11/2012 owners of park homes was a lack of choice pryderon mwyaf i berchnogion cartrefi mewn and transparency in the supply of utilities and parciau oedd diffyg dewis a thryloywder wrth the impact of that on fuel poverty, among gyflenwi cyfleustodau ac effaith hynny ar other things? Your proposals will address dlodi tanwydd, ymhlith pethau eraill? Bydd home parks and sites that are partly home eich cynigion yn mynd i‘r afael â pharciau parks and partly holiday parks. What cartrefi a safleoedd sy‘n rhannol yn barciau implications, if any, will this have for people cartrefi ac yn rhannol yn barciau gwyliau. Pa living in holiday parks as their permanent oblygiadau a gaiff hyn, os o gwbl, ar bobl residence? Finally, with regard to the sy‘n byw mewn parciau gwyliau fel eu potential negative impacts on site cartref parhaol? Yn olaf, o ran yr effeithiau profitability and bank lending, what dialogue negyddol posibl ar broffidioldeb safle a have you had, or do you propose to have, benthyciadau banc, pa drafodaethau rydych with bank lenders to ensure that those wedi‘u cael, neu rydych yn bwriadu eu cael, â concerns meet the practical limitations on benthycwyr banc er mwyn sicrhau bod y their lending that they must meet by law? pryderon hynny yn bodloni‘r cyfyngiadau ymarferol ar eu benthyca y mae‘n rhaid iddynt eu bodloni yn ôl y gyfraith?

Peter Black: I thank Mark Isherwood for his Peter Black: Diolch i Mark Isherwood am ei general support for the Bill and his gefnogaeth gyffredinol i‘r Bil a‘i sylwadau. comments. I will try to respond to his Byddaf yn ceisio ymateb i‘w bryderon a‘i concerns and questions in order. In relation to gwestiynau yn eu trefn. Mewn perthynas â the CRB check and other criminal record gwiriad y Swyddfa Cofnodion Troseddol a checks, section 6(5) of the Bill requires the gwiriadau cofnodion troseddol eraill, mae licensing authority to specify the information adran 6(5) y Bil yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i‘r that applicants must provide when applying awdurdod trwyddedu nodi‘r wybodaeth y for a licence. That must include sufficient mae‘n rhaid i ymgeiswyr ei darparu wrth information to enable the authority to apply wneud cais am drwydded. Mae‘n rhaid the fit-and-proper person test. That is also cynnwys digon o wybodaeth i alluogi‘r subject to regulations made under subsection awdurdod i gymhwyso‘r prawf unigolyn 8, so either the regulations will specify what addas a phriodol. Mae hynny hefyd yn information applicants must provide, or ddarostyngedig i reoliadau a wneir o dan licensing authorities must specify what is isadran 8, felly naill ai bydd y rheoliadau yn needed. We do not believe that it was nodi pa wybodaeth y mae‘n rhaid i sensible to put a particular check on the face ymgeiswyr ei darparu, neu mae‘n rhaid i of the Bill, because that may change over awdurdodau trwyddedu nodi beth sydd ei time. There is, therefore, flexibility to allow angen. Ni chredwn ei bod yn synhwyrol rhoi licensing authorities or the Minister through gwiriad penodol ar wyneb y Bil, oherwydd regulation to specify exactly what is required gall hynny newid dros amser. Felly, mae to determine whether a person is a fit-and- mwy o hyblygrwydd i ganiatáu i awdurdodau proper person. So, I think that we have trwyddedu neu‘r Gweinidog drwy reoliad covered that in those particular subsections. nodi‘n union beth sydd ei angen i bennu a yw unigolyn yn addas a phriodol. Felly, credaf ein bod wedi rhoi sylw i hynny yn yr isadrannau penodol hynny.

With regard to the veto and who can come to O ran y feto a phwy a all ddod i fyw ar y live on the site, there will still be site rules; safle, bydd rheolau safle o hyd; cytunir those will be agreed with residents and can arnynt gyda phreswylwyr, a gallant ymdrin â cover such issues as who is a suitable person materion megis pwy sy‘n unigolyn addas i to live on the site. You will be aware that the fyw ar y safle. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod UK Government has just brought in an Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyflwyno diwygiad i amendment to the Equality Act 2010 that, in Ddeddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 sydd, i bob effect, exempts holiday home sites and pwrpas, yn eithrio safleoedd cartrefi gwyliau mobile home parks from that Act. So, for a pharciau cartrefi symudol o‘r Ddeddf

49 07/11/2012 example, if residents wanted to specify that honno. Felly, er enghraifft, pe byddai no-one under the age of 60 can live on the trigolion yn awyddus i nodi na all unrhyw un site, that would be allowed. However, that is o dan 60 oed fyw ar y safle, byddai hynny‘n a matter for each particular park and the rules cael ei ganiatáu. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny‘n that they set out; I do not want to do that for fater i bob parc penodol a‘r rheolau a nodir them, and I would not be advocating that ganddynt; ni fyddwn am wneud hynny ar eu particular restriction. It is a matter for the rhan, ac ni fyddwn yn argymell y cyfyngiad residents and the operator. penodol hwnnw. Mater i‘r trigolion a‘r gweithredwr ydyw.

In terms of Consumer Focus Wales‘s O ran pryderon Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru, yr concerns, the only one that Mark mentioned unig un y soniodd Mark amdano oedd was about utilities and fuel poverty. That is ynghylch cyfleustodau a thlodi tanwydd. Mae outside the scope of this Bill, and I do not hynny y tu allan i gwmpas y Bil hwn, ac ni think that I can do much about it. A lot of the chredaf y gallaf wneud llawer am y peth. abuses that I have come across in relation to Mae llawer o‘r achosion yr wyf wedi dod ar utilities are illegal acts in my view and are eu traws mewn perthynas â chamddefnyddio matters for consumer protection bodies and cyfleustodau yn weithredoedd anghyfreithlon Ofgem. When residents have come to me yn fy marn i ac yn faterion i gyrff diogelu with such abuses, I have always referred defnyddwyr ac Ofgem. Pan mae trigolion them to those authorities. There are issues wedi dod ataf gydag achosion o‘r fath, rwyf around fuel poverty to do with the design of bob amser wedi eu cyfeirio at yr awdurdodau the homes themselves and the fact that it is hynny. Mae materion yn ymwneud â thlodi very difficult to clad them or make them tanwydd yn ymwneud â dyluniad y cartrefi more fuel efficient. The Bill contains eu hunain a‘r ffaith ei bod yn anodd iawn provisions about what is allowed in terms of rhoi cladin arnynt neu eu gwneud yn fwy making alterations to the home that will make effeithlon o ran tanwydd. Mae‘r Bil yn it easier to make the homes more fuel cynnwys darpariaethau ynghylch yr hyn a efficient, but the grants and other things that ganiateir o ran gwneud addasiadau i‘r cartref are available are a matter for the Welsh and a fydd yn golygu ei bod yn haws gwneud y UK Governments and the schemes that they cartrefi‘n fwy effeithlon o ran tanwydd, ond have in place. On bank lenders, I do not think mater i Lywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y that the introduction of a licensing fee would DU yw‘r grantiau a‘r pethau eraill sydd ar jeopardise the financial viability of these gael a‘r cynlluniau sydd ganddynt ar waith. O sites; these are multi-million pound ran benthycwyr banc, ni chredaf y byddai businesses and the fees imposed will be small cyflwyno ffi drwyddedu yn peryglu compared to the profits of the site operators. hyfywedd ariannol y safleoedd hyn; mae‘r Where there are licensing regimes already, rhain yn fusnesau gwerth miliynau o such as for houses of multiple occupation, bunnoedd a bydd y ffioedd a osodir yn fach there has been no problem in securing bank o‘u cymharu ag elw gweithredwyr safleoedd. finance, and I do not envisage a problem in Lle ceir cyfundrefnau trwyddedu eisoes, relation to mobile home sites either. megis ar gyfer tai amlfeddiannaeth, ni fu unrhyw broblem o ran sicrhau cyllid banc, ac nid wyf yn rhagweld problem mewn perthynas â safleoedd cartrefi symudol chwaith.

Rebecca Evans: I congratulate Peter Black Rebecca Evans: Hoffwn longyfarch Peter on bringing this issue forward, and I welcome Black ar gyflwyno‘r mater hwn, a chroesawaf his statement today. I put on record that I ei ddatganiad heddiw. Hoffwn gofnodi fy very much support what he is seeking to mod yn cefnogi‘r hyn y mae‘n ceisio ei achieve. I particularly welcome the proposals gyflawni yn fawr iawn. Croesawaf yn to introduce a fit-and-proper person test for arbennig y cynigion i gyflwyno prawf site operators, which is a vital tool to protect unigolyn addas a phriodol ar gyfer park home residents. gweithredwyr safle, sydd yn arf hanfodol i

50 07/11/2012

ddiogelu preswylwyr cartrefi mewn parciau.

You acknowledge in your consultation Rydych yn cydnabod yn eich dogfen document that the HMO model for a fit-and- ymgynghori efallai na fydd y model HMO ar proper person test may not be fully effective; gyfer prawf unigolyn addas a phriodol yn I wonder whether you have explored aspects gwbl effeithiol; tybed a ydych wedi archwilio of other models that have been suggested by agweddau ar fodelau eraill sydd wedi cael eu bodies looking at this issue at the past, such hawgrymu gan gyrff sydd wedi edrych ar y as the liquor licensing system or the mater hwn yn y gorffennol, megis y system Consumer Credit Act 1974, both of which trwyddedu gwirodydd neu Ddeddf Credyd might provide useful inspiration for you. Defnyddwyr 1974, y gall y ddau ohonynt fod Having said that, I am pleased to hear your yn ysbrydoliaeth ddefnyddiol ichi. Wedi response to Mark Isherwood; it seems that dweud hynny, rwy‘n falch o glywed eich you are seeking a system with a good degree ymateb i Mark Isherwood; mae‘n ymddangos of flexibility. eich bod yn chwilio am system gyda chryn dipyn o hyblygrwydd.

Presumably a licence could be revoked if a Mae‘n debyg y gellid diddymu trwydded os site operator acts in a way that breaches the bydd gweithredwr safle yn gweithredu mewn fit-and-proper person conditions, so would ffordd sy‘n torri‘r amodau unigolyn addas a you envisage that local authorities would phriodol, felly a fyddech yn rhagweld y have the power to issue a management order byddai gan awdurdodau lleol y pŵer i in such a situation? How do you propose to gyhoeddi gorchymyn rheoli mewn sefyllfa ensure that residents are not negatively o‘r fath? Sut ydych chi‘n bwriadu sicrhau nad affected in such a situation? effeithir yn negyddol ar drigolion mewn sefyllfa o‘r fath?

I am keen to know whether you are proposing Rwy‘n awyddus i wybod a ydych yn bwriadu to apply the test retrospectively, or whether it cymhwyso‘r prawf yn ôl-weithredol, neu a would just be applied to new applicants, but I fyddai ond yn cael ei gymhwyso i ymgeiswyr think you answered that in response to the newydd, ond credaf eich bod wedi ateb Minister. Applying it retrospectively could hynny mewn ymateb i‘r Gweinidog. Gallai ei lead to some problems, but also real benefits, gymhwyso‘n ôl-weithredol arwain at rai so what consideration have you given to that? problemau, ond hefyd at fanteision gwirioneddol, felly pa ystyriaeth ydych wedi‘i rhoi i hynny?

With regards to the model standards to which O ran y safonau model y cyfeiriwch atynt yn you refer in your consultation document, you eich dogfen ymgynghori, dywedwch y say the Bill would make it a condition of byddai‘r Bil yn ei gwneud yn un o amodau each site licence that all applicable Welsh pob trwydded safle y dylid cadw at bob un o Government model standards for mobile safonau enghreifftiol Llywodraeth Cymru ar home sites in Wales are adhered to. Are you gyfer safleoedd cartrefi symudol yng satisfied that the model standards as currently Nghymru. A ydych yn fodlon bod y safonau written are sufficiently robust, or are there enghreifftiol fel y‘i hysgrifennwyd ar hyn o improvements or changes that you would like bryd yn ddigon cadarn, neu a oes gwelliannau to be made to those standards? Have you neu newidiadau yr hoffech eu gwneud i‘r made any assessment of to what extent the safonau hynny? Ydych chi wedi gwneud model standards are already being adhered unrhyw asesiad ynghylch i ba raddau y to? cedwir at y safonau enghreifftiol ar hyn o bryd?

Peter Black: Thank you for those questions, Peter Black: Diolch ichi am y cwestiynau, Rebecca, and for your support for the Bill. I Rebecca, ac am eich cefnogaeth i‘r Bil. considered a number of models for the Ystyriais nifer o fodelau ar gyfer trwyddedu‘r

51 07/11/2012 licensing of the sites. Certainly, the safleoedd. Yn sicr, gallai awdurdodau lleol Consumer Credit Act could be taken into ystyried y Ddeddf Credyd Defnyddwyr pan account by local authorities when they come ddônt i ystyried a yw rhywun yn unigolyn to consider whether someone is a fit-and- addas a phriodol. Mae hyblygrwydd yn y Bil proper person. There is flexibility in the Bill er mwyn eu galluogi i wneud hynny. Fodd to enable them to do that. However, the Bill bynnag, mae‘r Bil yn seiliedig ar y model has been based on that particular model. I penodol hwnnw. Credaf ei fod yn fodel think that it is an appropriate model and, priodol a, gobeithio, byddwn wedi gwneud yr hopefully, we have made the relevant addasiadau perthnasol i‘w wneud yn adjustments to make it workable. I suspect ymarferol. Rwy‘n amau y caiff hynny ei brofi that that will be tested in scrutiny in wrth graffu yn y pwyllgor, ac edrychaf committee, and I look forward to those ymlaen at y cwestiynau hynny pan fyddant questions when they come up. yn codi.

There is provision for management orders in Mae darpariaeth ar gyfer gorchmynion rheoli the Bill and also for a local authority to, in yn y Bil a hefyd i awdurdod lleol, i bob effect, take over the running of a site on a pwrpas, gymryd drosodd y gwaith o redeg temporary basis if someone ceases to be a fit- safle dros dro os bydd rhywun yn peidio â and-proper person and arrangements need to bod yn unigolyn addas a phriodol ac mae be made to ensure that the site continues to angen gwneud trefniadau i sicrhau bod y be run. The local authority will be able to safle yn parhau i gael ei redeg. Bydd yr recover the costs of doing that; that is also awdurdod lleol yn gallu adennill y costau o included in the Bill. Therefore, we are trying wneud hynny; caiff hynny ei gynnwys yn y to make provisions as best as we can to Bil hefyd. Felly, rydym yn ceisio gwneud ensure that local authorities can exercise their darpariaethau hyd eithaf ein gallu er mwyn duties responsibly without impinging on the sicrhau y gall awdurdodau lleol arfer eu rights and security of the residents in the dyletswyddau yn gyfrifol heb amharu ar mobile homes. hawliau a diogelwch y trigolion yn y cartrefi symudol.

On the model standards, I think that the last O ran y safonau enghreifftiol, credaf mai yn set was in 2008, and I would envisage that, 2008 y gwnaed y set ddiwethaf, a byddwn yn should this Bill become law, they will have to rhagweld, pe byddai‘r Bil hwn yn dod yn be reviewed and revised. I suspect that they gyfraith, y bydd yn rhaid iddynt gael eu are out of date and they will certainly need to hadolygu a‘u diwygio. Rwy‘n amau eu bod be looked at. However, that is a matter for the wedi dyddio a bydd angen edrych arnynt yn Minister. I do not think that it is an sicr. Fodd bynnag, mater i‘r Gweinidog yw imperative and I am sure that the Minister hwnnw. Ni chredaf ei fod yn hanfodol ac will not need to do it immediately before rwy‘n siŵr na fydd angen i‘r Gweinidog commencing the Bill. However, they wneud hynny yn union cyn cychwyn y Bil. certainly have to be looked at. Fodd bynnag, mae angen edrych arnynt yn sicr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Croesawaf yn fawr Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I very much iawn y datganiad hwn gan Peter Black, a welcome this statement by Peter Black, and hefyd y Bil. Mae hyn yn bwnc sydd wedi‘i also the Bill. This is a subject that has been godi ar nifer o achlysuron gan nifer o raised on a number of occasions by a number Aelodau o‘r Cynulliad hwn dros y 13 of Assembly Members over the past 13 years. blynedd diwethaf. Mae 3,400 o gartrefi parc There are 3,400 park homes throughout ledled Cymru, ac mae meysydd ar gyfer Wales, and there are park home sites in 19 of cartrefi parc yn 19 o‘r 22 awdurod lleol. the 22 local authorities. Therefore, this Felly, mae‘r hyn yn effeithio ar y mwyafrif o affects the majority of Assembly Members— Aelodau o‘r Cynulliad hwn—mwy na thebyg more than likely it affects every regional ei fod yn effeithio ar bob un o‘r Aelodau Member, and also the majority of the rhanbarthol, a‘r mwyafrif hefyd o‘r Aelodau consitutency Members.

52 07/11/2012 etholaethol.

Fel y mae Peter eisoes wedi‘i ddweud, rydym As Peter has already said, we are talking yn sôn gan fwyaf am bobl hŷn—pobl sydd primarily about older people—people who wedi gwerthu‘u cartrefi ac wedi buddsoddi have sold their homes and have invested in mewn cartrefi parc er mwyn ceisio gwneud y park homes in order to try to optimise the gorau o‘r ecwiti oedd ganddynt yn eu cartrefi equity that they had in their homes and to a sicrhau bywyd ychydig bach yn fwy hwylus ensure a somewhat easier and more a llewyrchus yn eu blynyddoedd hŷn. Mae prosperous life in their later years. Consumer Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru wedi cynnal Focus Wales carried out a survey of 236 park arolwg o 236 o breswylwyr cartrefi parc yng home residents in Wales, and 62% said that Nghymru, ac roedd 62% o‘r rheini yn dweud they had faced problems, and 11% said that eu bod wedi wynebu problemau, ac roedd they had faced some kind of threat, either 11% ohonynt yn dweud eu bod wedi wynebu verbal or physical, from the owner of the site ychydig rhyw fath o fygythiad, geiriol neu where their park homes were located. gorfforol, gan berchennog y maes lle‘r oedd eu cartrefi parc wedi‘u lleoli.

Felly, mae‘r Bil hwn yn eithriadol o bwysig. Therefore, this Bill is exceptionally Nid oes modd i‘r Bil ymwneud â phob un o‘r important. It is not possible for the Bill to problemau, ond bydd yn fodd i ddiogelu address all of the problems, but it will be a buddiannau perchnogion y cartrefi parc a means of protecting the interests of park bydd yn fodd hefyd i reoleiddio‘r bobl sy‘n home owners, and it will also be a means of rheoli‘r parciau hyn ac i sicrhau safon. regulating the people who manage these parks and of ensuring standards.

Fy nghwestiwn sylfaenol yw hyn: a ydych yn My basic question is this: do you hope and gobeithio ac yn hyderus y bydd y Bil hwn nid are you confident that this Bill will not yn ateb yr holl broblemau yn ei hun ond yn answer all the problems in itself but lead to arwain at ddatblygiadau a fydd yn golygu y developments that will mean that these bydd y problemau hyn yn cael eu harchwilio problems will be investigated further by local ymhellach gan awdurdodau lleol, gan y authorities, by this Government and by the Llywodraeth hon a chan Llywodraeth y UK Government, and that the Bill will Deyrnas Unedig, ac y bydd y Bil yn mynd i‘r address a wide range of the problems that afael â‘r ystod eang o broblemau sy‘n bodoli exist and will at least be an appropriate ac bydd o leiaf yn fan cychwyn priodol inni starting point for us to endeavour to ensure geisio sicrhau bod hawliau perchnogion y that the rights of park home owners are cartrefi parc hyn yn cael eu diogelu i‘r protected in future? dyfodol?

Peter Black: Yes, I do, and I hope that, once Peter Black: Ydw, gobeithiaf, unwaith y this Bill comes in, the duty that is placed on daw‘r Bil hwn yn weithredol, y bydd y local authorities and the resources that are ddyletswydd a roddir ar awdurdodau lleol a‘r made available to them will enable them to adnoddau sydd ar gael iddynt yn eu galluogi i be more proactive in policing the licences fod yn fwy rhagweithiol wrth blismona‘r that they will then be responsible for trwyddedau y byddant wedyn yn gyfrifol am granting. As part of that policing, a number eu cyflwyno. Fel rhan o‘r gwaith plismona of the abuses that have been brought to our hwnnw, eir i‘r afael â nifer o‘r achosion o attention by Consumer Focus Wales and gamddefnyddio a gafodd eu dwyn at ein sylw others will be tackled. gan Lais Defnyddwyr Cymru ac eraill.

3.15 p.m.

Kirsty Williams: I thank Peter for his Kirsty Williams: Diolch i Peter am ei statement this afternoon, and I congratulate ddatganiad y prynhawn yma, a hoffwn ei

53 07/11/2012 him on the work done to date. I am only longyfarch ar y gwaith a wnaed ganddo hyd slightly miffed that his name was pulled out yn hyn. Rwyf ychydig yn siomedig fod ei of the hat rather than mine, having submitted enw wedi ei dynnu allan o‘r het yn hytrach na the same proposal on every single occasion I fy un i, wedi i mi gyflwyno‘r un cynnig ar have had the opportunity to do so. However, I bob un achlysur posibl. Fodd bynnag, rwy‘n am very grateful on behalf of my constituents ddiolchgar iawn ar ran fy etholwyr bod Peter that Peter has been able to bring this forward. wedi gallu ei gyflwyno.

For the last 13 years, I have worked Dros y 13 mlynedd diwethaf, rwyf wedi alongside people in Brecon and Radnorshire gweithio ochr yn ochr â phobl ym who have been subject to some vile treatment Mrycheiniog a Maesyfed sydd wedi cael eu by the owners of the sites on which they live. trin yn warthus gan berchnogion y safleoedd As part of my work, I have myself lle maent yn byw. Fel rhan o‘m gwaith, rwyf encountered that vile behaviour from some wedi dod ar draws ymddygiad gwael o‘r fath park owners, who have questioned me on gan rai perchenogion parciau, a wnaeth fy why I was pursuing these issues. My holi pam fy mod yn mynd ar drywydd y interaction with them is enough to tell me materion hyn. Roedd hyn yn ddigon i that this law is badly needed. ddweud wrthyf fod angen dirfawr am y gyfraith hon.

These residents are often very vulnerable and Mae‘r trigolion hyn yn aml yn agored iawn i do not have anyone to stick up for them. niwed ac nid oes ganddynt unrhyw un i sefyll Local authorities, for whatever reasons, have i fyny drostynt. Mae awdurdodau lleol a‘r been slow to respond to the needs of this heddlu, am ba resymau bynnag, wedi bod yn particular section of our population, as have araf i ymateb i anghenion y gyfran arbennig the police. I hope that, as a result of your hon o‘n poblogaeth. Gobeithio, o ganlyniad work, Peter, and the work of Consumer i‘ch gwaith, Peter, a gwaith Llais Focus Wales, all authorities will now take Defnyddwyr Cymru, y bydd pob awdurdod these issues seriously. I will ask two specific bellach yn cymryd y materion hyn o ddifrif. questions. Hoffwn ofyn dau gwestiwn penodol.

First, several times in your statement, you Yn gyntaf, soniasoch sawl gwaith yn eich mentioned the role of tenants‘ associations datganiad am rôl cymdeithasau tenantiaid within park sites. Sometimes, individuals mewn safleoedd parciau. Weithiau, mae interested in setting up tenants‘ associations unigolion sydd â diddordeb mewn sefydlu have been subjected to abuse, because the site cymdeithasau tenantiaid wedi bod yn destun owners recognise that, by working together, cam-drin, oherwydd bod perchnogion y safle residents have more of a chance to make their yn cydnabod, drwy weithio gyda‘i gilydd, y voices heard. Do your proposals look to gall trigolion gael mwy o gyfle i leisio‘u address how we can make such associations barn. A yw eich cynigion yn ystyried sut y more successful in residential parks? gallwn wneud cymdeithasau o‘r fath yn fwy llwyddiannus mewn parciau preswyl?

Secondly, on regulation, I know that, in the Yn ail, o ran rheoleiddio, yng nghyfraniad y Minister‘s contribution, he said that he had Gweinidog, gwn iddo ddweud ei fod yn concerns about the levels of regulation, but pryderu am y lefelau rheoleiddio, ond pa what discussions have you had with him to drafodaethau rydych wedi‘u cael gydag ef i ensure that the regulations that would enact sicrhau bod y rheoliadau a fyddai‘n some of the provisions of this Bill will be gweithredu rhai o ddarpariaethau‘r Bil hwn carried out for the Government? I would yn cael eu cyflawni ar gyfer y Llywodraeth? welcome support for you, as an individual Byddwn yn croesawu cefnogaeth i chi, fel Member, to develop this legislation so that Aelod unigol, i ddatblygu‘r ddeddfwriaeth the need for regulations is diminished, hon fel bod yr angen am reoliadau yn lleihau, because I have grave concerns that if oherwydd mae gennyf bryderon dybryd os regulation is left to the Welsh Government, bydd rheoleiddio‘n cael ei adael i

54 07/11/2012 those regulations will never appear. Lywodraeth Cymru, na fydd y rheoliadau hynny fyth yn ymddangos.

Peter Black: Thank you for that Peter Black: Diolch am y cyfraniad hwnnw, contribution, Kirsty, and thank you for your Kirsty, a diolch ichi am eich cefnogaeth i‘r support for the Bill. I certainly recognise the Bil. Rwyf yn sicr yn cydnabod y cyfraniad huge contribution that you and your enfawr rydych chi a‘ch etholwyr wedi‘i constituents have made to the work on wneud i‘r gwaith ar ddrafftio cynnwys y Bil drafting this Bill‘s contents. Certainly, a lot hwn. Yn sicr, mae llawer o‘r materion y of the stuff that you and your constituents gwnaethoch chi a‘ch etholwyr eu tynnu at fy have brought to my attention has led directly sylw wedi arwain yn uniongyrchol at to provisions within the Bill. ddarpariaethau yn y Bil.

In relation to tenants‘ associations, the Mewn perthynas â chymdeithasau tenantiaid, current law is that 50% of the tenants need to y gyfraith ar hyn o bryd yw bod angen i 50% be signed up before an association can be o‘r tenantiaid fod wedi cofrestru cyn y gellir recognised. However, there have been cydnabod cymdeithas. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd problems in the past, with reports of problemau yn y gorffennol, gydag intimidation on sites to try to prevent tenants adroddiadau o frawychu ar safleoedd i geisio from joining, to make sure that the required atal tenantiaid rhag ymuno, er mwyn sicrhau 50% was not reached. The Bill makes na chyrhaeddir y nod o 50%. Mae‘r Bil yn provision for the membership list of a gwneud darpariaeth er mwyn i restr aelodaeth tenants‘ association to be lodged with a local cymdeithas tenantiaid i gael ei chyflwyno authority and not made public, so that the gydag awdurdod lleol ac iddi beidio â chael owner of a site will not be able to determine ei chyhoeddi, fel na fydd y perchennog safle who is a member and who is not. He will yn gallu penderfynu pwy sy‘n aelod a phwy have to take the local authority‘s certification sydd ddim yn aelod. Bydd yn rhaid iddo on face value in that regard, and the local gymryd gair yr awdurdod lleol yn hynny o authority will act as an independent arbiter. beth, a bydd yr awdurdod lleol yn gweithredu Hopefully, that will enable more tenants‘ fel canolwr annibynnol. Gobeithio y bydd associations to be set up to carry out their hynny‘n golygu y caiff mwy o gymdeithasau very important work, as is done at the tenantiaid eu sefydlu i wneud eu gwaith moment by those currently in situ. pwysig iawn, fel y gwneir ar hyn o bryd gan y rheini sy‘n bodoli eisoes.

Another provision in the Bill is that we have Un o ddarpariaethau eraill y Bil yw ein bod exempted from the Freedom of Information wedi eithrio o Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth Act 2000 any requests for data about the 2000 unrhyw geisiadau am ddata ynghylch membership of tenants‘ associations, so a aelodaeth o gymdeithasau tenantiaid, felly ni local authority will not be required to give fydd yn ofynnol i awdurdod lleol roi‘r that information if an FOI request is made. wybodaeth honno os gwneir cais am ryddid gwybodaeth.

In relation to the regulations, as I said to the Mewn perthynas â‘r rheoliadau, fel y Minister, I am more than happy to work with dywedais wrth y Gweinidog, rwy‘n fwy na him and his officials to try to reduce the pharod i weithio gydag ef a‘i swyddogion i number of regulations. If you go through the geisio lleihau nifer y rheoliadau. Os byddwch explanatory memorandum and look at the yn mynd drwy‘r memorandwm esboniadol ac list, you will see that a large number of them yn edrych ar y rhestr, fe welwch fod nifer are for basic administrative issues that need fawr ohonynt ar gyfer materion gweinyddol to be put in place before the Bill can be sylfaenol y mae angen eu rhoi ar waith cyn y commenced. Obviously, I do not want to gellir gweithredu‘r Bil. Yn amlwg, nid wyf second-guess what the Minister wants to do am ragfynegi‘r hyn y mae‘r Gweinidog am ei on a number of those issues, so it is important wneud ar nifer o‘r materion hynny, felly that his officials come forward and offer mae‘n bwysig bod ei swyddogion yn dod

55 07/11/2012 suggestions and amendments so that we can ymlaen ac yn cynnig awgrymiadau a reduce the number of those regulations. The diwygiadau fel y gallwn leihau nifer y English Bill on mobile homes contains a rheoliadau hynny. Mae Bil Lloegr ar gartrefi huge number of regulations, and we have a symudol yn cynnwys nifer fawr o reoliadau, lot more on the face of our Bill than it does. ac mae gennym fwy o lawer ar wyneb ein Bil However, if we can reduce the number of ni o gymharu â hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, os regulations, that will happen. I have every gallwn leihau nifer y rheoliadau, bydd confidence that the Minister will implement hynny‘n digwydd. Mae gennyf bob hyder y these regulations. I think that the issue is bydd y Gweinidog yn gweithredu‘r really one of time and of how quickly those rheoliadau hyn. Credaf mai amser sy‘n regulations can be put in place so that the Bill bwysig a pha mor gyflym y gellir rhoi‘r can be commenced. I do not want an rheoliadau hynny ar waith fel y gellir unnecessary delay, if it can be avoided, and I gweithredu‘r Bil. Nid wyf am weld oedi am sure that the Minister agrees with me on diangen, os gellir ei osgoi, ac rwy‘n siŵr bod that. We will certainly do our best to reduce y Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi ar hynny. the burden on his officials. Byddwn yn sicr yn gwneud ein gorau i leihau‘r baich ar ei swyddogion.

Darren Millar: I want to add my Darren Millar: Hoffwn innau longyfarch congratulations to Peter on his work so far on Peter ar ei waith hyd yma ar y mater hwn, a this issue, and to note the contribution that nodi cyfraniad Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru at y Consumer Focus Wales has made to the ddadl ac at ddatblygu‘r Bil. Fodd bynnag, debate and to the development of the Bill. rwyf ychydig yn bryderus y gallai cwmpas y However, I am a little concerned that the Bil fod yn rhy gul i fynd i‘r afael â rhai o‘r scope of the Bill may be too narrow to pryderon a welaf yn fy etholaeth fy hun, address some of the concerns that I see in my oherwydd bod yr achosion o aflonyddu, own constituency, because the harassment, brawychu, camfanteisio ac ymarfer intimidation, exploitation and sharp practice diegwyddor sydd yn amlwg ar rai o‘r that is clearly evident on some of the park safleoedd cartrefi mewn parciau hefyd yn home sites is also evident on some of the amlwg ar rai o‘r safleoedd carafanau a caravan sites and holiday parks in my area. pharciau gwyliau yn fy ardal i.

I am not trying to confuse the two issues Nid wyf yn ceisio cymysgu‘r ddau fater hwn, here, as I know the distinction between the gan fy mod yn gwybod y gwahaniaeth rhwng two, but I am simply making the point that y ddau, rwyf ond yn gwneud y pwynt bod there is a growing number of people whose nifer gynyddol o bobl y mae eu prif lety yn main accommodation is a mobile home on a gartref symudol ar barc carafanau. Rhaid inni caravan park. We must not overlook that fact beidio ag anghofio‘r ffaith honno wrth in the development of this legislation, ddatblygu‘r ddeddfwriaeth hon, oherwydd because they need protection, too, and we mae angen eu hamddiffyn hwy hefyd, ac mae need to ensure that there is an effective angen inni sicrhau bod trefn drwyddedu licensing regime for those holiday parks effeithiol ar gyfer y parciau gwyliau hynny where mobile homes have people living in lle mae pobl wedi bod yn byw mewn cartrefi them for sometimes nine, 10, 11 or even 12 symudol am naw, 10, 11 neu hyd yn oed 12 months of the year, certainly in my mis y flwyddyn weithiau, yn sicr yn fy constituency. I ask you Peter—and I know etholaeth i. Gofynnaf ichi Peter—a gwn ein that we have had some discussions about this bod wedi cael rhai trafodaethau am hyn y tu outside the Chamber—whether at the next allan i‘r Siambr—a fydd cyfle yn ystod cam stage of this legislation, as it continues to nesaf y ddeddfwriaeth hon, wrth iddi gael ei develop and enters committee stage, there datblygu a mynd i gyfnod pwyllgor, i fynd i‘r will be an opportunity for the licensing issues afael â materion yn ymwneud â thrwyddedu of holiday caravan parks to be addressed also, parciau carafanau gwyliau hefyd, fel y gellir so that caravan owners can also have some amddiffyn perchnogion carafanau rywfaint protection from what some have described as hefyd rhag yr hyn y mae rhai wedi ei the ‗extortion‘ and very poor practice on ddisgrifio fel ‗cribddeiliaeth‘ ac arfer gwael

56 07/11/2012 those particular sites. I note that, as it stands, iawn ar y safleoedd penodol hynny. Nodaf, the Caravan Sites and Control of fel y mae, nad yw Deddf Safleoedd Development Act 1960 is not amended in any Carafanau a Rheoli Datblygu 1960 yn cael ei way by this particular piece of legislation, diwygio mewn unrhyw ffordd gan y darn and it may well be that there is an penodol hwn o ddeddfwriaeth, ac mae‘n opportunity at a later date to do that. bosibl iawn y bydd cyfle yn ddiweddarach i wneud hynny.

Peter Black: I thank Darren for his Peter Black: Diolch i Darren am ei comments. This is a matter that he has raised sylwadau. Mae hwn yn fater a gododd o‘r before, of course. The legal basis for caravan blaen, wrth gwrs. Mae‘r sail gyfreithiol i‘r sites and for mobile homes is slightly safleoedd carafanau a chartrefi symudol different. For that reason, holiday sites fall ychydig yn wahanol. Am y rheswm hwnnw, outside the scope of this Bill. In fact, holiday ni chaiff safleoedd gwyliau eu cynnwys o caravans are mainly regulated under the fewn cwmpas y Bil hwn. Yn wir, caiff Caravan Sites and Control of Development carafanau gwyliau eu rheoleiddio yn bennaf o Act 1960 and the Caravan Sites Act 1968, dan Ddeddf Safleoedd Carafanau a Rheoli which also apply to mobile homes. However, Datblygu 1960 a Deddf Safleoedd Carafanau the Mobile Homes Act 1983 and the Housing 1968, sydd hefyd yn gymwys i gartrefi Act 2004 do not apply to holiday caravans, symudol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw Deddf and they form the basis of the legislation that Cartrefi Symudol 1983 a Deddf Tai 2004 yn I am bringing forward and also define the gymwys i garafanau gwyliau, ac maent yn scope of that legislation. Therefore, any ffurfio sail y ddeddfwriaeth yr wyf fi‘n ei provisions relating to holiday caravans would chyflwyno, a hefyd yn diffinio cwmpas y introduce quite a complex set of amendments ddeddfwriaeth honno. Felly, byddai unrhyw and regulations, which would be very ddarpariaethau sy‘n ymwneud â charafanau difficult to accommodate within the existing gwyliau yn cyflwyno set eithaf cymhleth o Bill. ddiwygiadau a rheoliadau, a fyddai‘n anodd iawn darparu ar eu cyfer yn y Bil presennol.

There is also a different economic factor for Ceir hefyd ffactor economaidd gwahanol ar holiday caravans than is the case for gyfer carafanau gwyliau o gymharu â residential sites, simply because the holiday safleoedd preswyl, yn syml oherwydd bod y industry has an impact on tourism and other diwydiant gwyliau yn cael effaith ar factors, while the residential mobile home dwristiaeth a ffactorau eraill, tra bod y sites that I am seeking to regulate here are safleoedd cartrefi symudol preswyl yr wyf yn largely—as it says on the tin—residential ceisio eu rheoleiddio yma i raddau helaeth— homes for the people living there, and they fel sy‘n amlwg o‘r disgrifiad—yn gartrefi do not, as such, impact on the tourism offer preswyl i‘r bobl sy‘n byw yno, ac nid ydynt, of a particular area. Therefore, with those fel y cyfryw, yn effeithio ar arlwy twristiaeth considerations, any legislation relating to ardal benodol. Felly, gyda‘r ystyriaethau holiday caravans would need to be a part of a hynny, byddai angen i unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth separate piece of legislation. I am sure that, if sy‘n ymwneud â charafanau gwyliau fod yn you are successful next time, Darren, you rhan o ddarn o ddeddfwriaeth ar wahân. might consider doing that. Rwy‘n siŵr, os byddwch yn llwyddiannus y tro nesaf, Darren, y gallech ystyried gwneud hynny.

Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives Debate

57 07/11/2012

Y Lluoedd Arfog The Armed Forces

The Presiding Officer: I have selected Y Llywydd: Rwyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt. yn enw Jane Hutt.

Cynnig NDM5084 William Graham Motion NDM5084 William Graham

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn talu teyrnged i aberth ac ymrwymiad 1. Pays tribute to the immense sacrifice and aruthrol y rheini sydd wedi gwasanaethu yn commitment of those who have served in our ein Lluoedd Arfog; Armed Forces;

2. Yn mynegi pryder am ddiffyg cydlyniant a 2. Expresses concern at the lack of chapasiti gwasanaethau yng Nghymru i coordination and capacity of services in gefnogi cyn-filwyr sy’n dioddef anhwylder Wales to support ex-service personnel straen wedi trawma ac yn nodi’r rôl y gall y suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder trydydd sector ei chwarae wrth ddarparu (PTSD) and notes the role that the third gwasanaethau wedi’u cydlynu i gyn-filwyr; sector can play in the delivery of coordinated services to ex-service personnel;

3. Yn nodi canfyddiadau Adroddiad Gofal 3. Notes the findings of the Healthcare and Iechyd a Chymuned y Lluoedd Arfog yng the Armed Forces Community in Wales Nghymru ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i Report and calls on the Welsh Government to ystyried yn fanwl sefydlu canolfan breswyl give careful consideration to establishing a yng Nghymru ar gyfer cyn-filwyr gydag residential centre in Wales for ex-service anhwylder straen wedi trawma; ac personnel with PTSD; and

4. Yn cydnabod y rôl hanfodol y mae 4. Recognises the vital role that war cofebion rhyfel yn ei chwarae wrth sicrhau memorials play in ensuring that the sacrifices nad yw aberth y bobl hynny sydd wedi of many who have served in our Armed gwasanaethu yn ein Lluoedd Arfog byth yn Forces are never forgotten, and notes the mynd yn angof, ac yn nodi pwysigrwydd importance of protecting war memorials as gwarchod cofebion rhyfel yn rhan allweddol an essential part of Welsh heritage and a o dreftadaeth Cymru ac fel canolbwynt ar focal point for remembrance. gyfer cofio.

Mark Isherwood: I move the motion. Mark Isherwood: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

In this remembrance week, we pay tribute to Yn yr wythnos goffa hon, talwn deyrnged i the immense sacrifice and commitment of aberth ac ymrwymiad aruthrol y rhai sydd those who have served in our armed forces, wedi gwasanaethu yn ein lluoedd arfog, gan remembering those who have given their gofio‘r rhai sydd wedi marw ym mhob rhyfel lives in all conflicts over the years. The dros y blynyddoedd. Mae dychwelyd cyrff repatriation to the UK tomorrow of the dau filwr o Fataliwn Cyntaf Reifflwyr bodies of two soldiers from 1st Battalion The Brenhinol y Gurkhas i‘r DU yfory yn ein Royal Gurkha Rifles reminds us that this hatgoffa bod hyn yn parhau i fod yn realiti remains an ever-present reality today. bythol o hyd heddiw.

As I heard as a guest at Llay Royal British Fel y clywais fel gwestai yng ngŵyl goffa Legion‘s festival of remembrance last Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol Llai ddydd Saturday, this is also about the growing need Sadwrn diwethaf, mae a wnelo hyn hefyd â‘r created by the pressures on family life for angen cynyddol a grëwyd gan y pwysau sydd

58 07/11/2012 those in the armed forces, and by the ar fywyd teuluol i‘r rhai yn y lluoedd arfog, a dislocation for those moved on to civvy chan y dadleoli i‘r rhai sy‘n symud ymlaen i street. Some of those will be medically fywyd arferol. Caiff rhai o‘r rheini eu discharged and in need of assistance, while rhyddhau am resymau meddygol a bydd others will be dealing with the isolation, angen cymorth arnynt, tra bydd eraill yn delio loneliness and depression that can result from â‘r arwahanrwydd, yr unigedd a‘r iselder a all dislocation. ddeillio o ddadleoli.

Our motion expresses concern at the lack of Mae ein cynnig yn mynegi pryder am y co-ordination and capacity of services in diffyg cydlyniant a chapasiti gwasanaethau Wales to support ex-service personnel yng Nghymru i gefnogi cyn-filwyr sy‘n suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, dioddef anhwylder straen wedi trawma, neu or PTSD. It also notes the role that the third PTSD. Mae hefyd yn nodi‘r rôl y gall y sector can play in the delivery of co- trydydd sector ei chwarae i ddarparu ordinated services to ex-service personnel, gwasanaethau wedi‘u cydlynu i gyn-filwyr, notes the findings of the ‗Healthcare and the yn nodi canfyddiadau‘r adroddiad ‗Gofal Armed Forces Community in Wales‘ report, Iechyd a Chymuned y Lluoedd Arfog yng and calls on the Welsh Government to give Nghymru‘, ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru careful consideration to establishing a i ystyried yn ofalus sefydlu canolfan breswyl residential centre in Wales for ex-service yng Nghymru ar gyfer cyn-filwyr sydd ag personnel who have PTSD. It also notes the anhwylder straen wedi trawma. Mae hefyd yn importance of protecting war memorials. nodi pwysigrwydd amddiffyn cofebion rhyfel.

I campaigned with CAIS, the north Wales- Ymgyrchais â CAIS, darparwr gwasanaethau based voluntary sector provider of drug and cyffuriau ac alcohol o‘r sector gwirfoddol yn alcohol services, on behalf of the traumatised y gogledd, ar ran y cyn-filwyr a oedd yn ex-forces personnel who had come to rely on dioddef trawma ac a oedd wedi dod i the Tŷ Gwyn ex-service treatment unit in ddibynnu ar uned driniaeth Tŷ Gwyn i gyn- Llandudno. Their complex needs had not filwyr yn Llandudno. Nid oedd eu been met by the NHS or by Combat Stress. hanghenion cymhleth wedi‘u diwallu gan y When I visited Tŷ Gwyn, I met a group of GIG na chan Combat Stress. Pan ymwelais â veterans aged from their 80s to their early Tŷ Gwyn, cyfarfûm â grŵp o gyn-filwyr ag 20s, who had served in engagements ystod oedran o‘r wythdegau i‘r ugeiniau spanning rearguard action at Dunkirk through cynnar, a oedd wedi gwasanaethu mewn to Gulf 2. Initial bravado was followed by brwydrau o‘r ymladd yn Dunkirk i Gwlff 2. tears as they told me their stories. Wedi‘r ymffrost ar y dechrau daeth y dagrau wrth iddynt adrodd eu hanes i mi.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Melding) i’r Gadair am 3.27 p.m. The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Melding) took the Chair at 3.27 p.m.

Despite our campaign, Tŷ Gwyn closed in Er gwaethaf ein hymgyrch, caewyd Tŷ Gwyn late 2005. CAIS undertook a feasibility study ddiwedd 2005. Cynhaliodd CAIS astudiaeth into the possibility of its delivering a ddichonoldeb i‘r posibilrwydd o ddarparu replacement service. The need was there but gwasanaeth newydd. Roedd yr angen yno, the funding was not. It is something that the ond nid y cyllid. Mae‘n rhywbeth hefyd a Pathways centre treating ex-service personnel welodd y ganolfan Llwybrau a oedd yn trin for PTSD also found when it subsequently cyn-filwyr am anhwylder straen wedi trawma came and went in Bangor. pan ddaeth am gyfnod byr wedi hynny i Fangor.

Whenever I challenge the Welsh Government Pryd bynnag y byddaf yn herio Llywodraeth over this, it insists that the services required Cymru ynglŷn â hyn, mae‘n mynnu y gall y can be provided by the NHS. Steven Hughes, gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen gael eu

59 07/11/2012 regimental medical officer of 2nd Battalion darparu gan y GIG. Mae Steven Hughes, The Parachute Regiment in the Falkland swyddog meddygol catrodol o 2il Fataliwn Islands in 1982, and also director of front-line Catrawd y Parasiwtwyr yn rhyfel Ynysoedd resuscitation at the Bluff Cove disaster, who Falkland yn 1982, a hefyd gyfarwyddwr presented with PTSD himself a decade later, dadebru yn y rheng flaen yn nhrychineb Bluff has said that, Cove, a gafodd anhwylder straen wedi trawma ei hun ddegawd yn ddiweddarach, wedi dweud,

‗With no disrespect to NHS Mental Health Heb unrhyw amharch i weithwyr proffesiynol professionals, it is likely that the first time Iechyd Meddwl y GIG, mae‘n debygol mai‘r they encounter an ex-serviceman with tro cyntaf y byddant yn dod ar draws cyn- Combat Related – PTSD will be their first filwr gydag Anhwylder Straen wedi Trawma appreciation of a complex psychological sy‘n Gysylltiedig ag Ymladd fydd y tro condition that correlates poorly with the usual cyntaf y bydd yn rhaid iddynt orfod deall spectrum of ―civilian‖ mental health cyflwr seicolegol cymhleth nad oes ganddo disorders‘. fawr o gysylltiad â sbectrwm arferol anhwylderau iechyd meddwl ―sifilaidd‖.

He also said that, Dywedodd hefyd,

‗If conventional Mental Health Services were Pe bai Gwasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl so comprehensive there would not be such a confensiynol mor gynhwysfawr, ni fyddai‘r high veteran rate of suicide, high prison gyfradd hunanladdiad ymhlith cyn-filwyr population, and large number of veterans mor uchel, ni fyddai poblogaeth y carchardai sleeping rough.‘ mor uchel, ac ni fyddai nifer fawr o gyn- filwyr yn cysgu ar y stryd.

Complex military PTSD is, by definition, not Nid yw anhwylder straen wedi trawma within the routine practice of NHS mental milwrol cymhleth, drwy ddiffiniad, yn rhan o health services, other than the specialist feddygaeth arferol gwasanaethau iechyd trauma day unit in Cardiff. meddwl y GIG, ar wahân i‘r uned ddydd trawma arbenigol yng Nghaerdydd.

In March 2010, the Welsh Government Ym mis Mawrth 2010, cyhoeddodd announced funding for veteran-specific Llywodraeth Cymru gyllid ar gyfer community mental health specialists as part arbenigwyr iechyd meddwl cymunedol sy‘n of a hub-and-spoke all-Wales veterans health ymwneud yn benodol â chyn-filwyr fel rhan and wellbeing service. This does not address o wasanaeth canolog a chysylltiedig ym maes the need for short-term residential treatment iechyd a lles i gyn-filwyr ar gyfer Cymru for those who have complex needs. We call gyfan. Nid yw hyn yn mynd i‘r afael â‘r on the Welsh Government to engage. Surely angen am driniaeth breswyl tymor byr i‘r rhai there is no need to complicate the referral sydd ag anghenion cymhleth. Galwn ar pathway for veterans in Wales. A simple Lywodraeth Cymru i roi sylw i hyn. Nid oes grass-roots third sector approach is all that it angen cymhlethu‘r llwybr atgyfeirio i gyn- would take, backed by proven results and filwyr yng Nghymru. Dull gweithredu syml delivered in partnership with health boards. gan y trydydd sector ar lawr gwlad yw‘r cyfan fyddai ei angen, wedi‘i ategu gan ganlyniadau profedig ac wedi‘i gyflwyno mewn partneriaeth â byrddau iechyd.

The Healthcare Inspectorate Wales report Mae adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd published in May, ‗Healthcare and the Armed Cymru a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mai, ‗Gofal Forces Community in Wales‘, recommends Iechyd a Chymuned y Lluoedd Arfog yng the establishment of an armed forces forum, Nghymru‘, yn argymell y dylid sefydlu

60 07/11/2012 bringing together the public sector with fforwm y lluoedd arfog, gan ddwyn ynghyd y service charities, the third sector and sector cyhoeddus gydag elusennau‘r lluoedd members of the armed forces themselves. arfog, y trydydd sector ac aelodau o‘r lluoedd This has merit, provided that the experts in arfog eu hunain. Mae gwerth i hyn, ar yr the armed forces and ex-forces communities amod y gwrandewir ar yr arbenigwyr yn y are listened to and that services are designed lluoedd arfog a chymunedau‘r cyn-filwyr a with them, not for them. The report states that bod y gwasanaethau‘n cael eu cynllunio gyda the issue of mental health problems amongst hwy, ac nid iddynt hwy. Noda‘r adroddiad veterans caused as a result of experiences mai problemau iechyd meddwl ymhlith cyn- during service was the subject of a significant filwyr a achosir o ganlyniad i brofiadau wrth proportion of the responses received. The wasanaethu oedd testun cyfran sylweddol o‘r report proposes that each health board build ymatebion a gafwyd. Mae‘r adroddiad yn on the new hub-and-spoke all-Wales veterans cynnig bod pob bwrdd iechyd yn adeiladu ar health and wellbeing service by establishing a y gwasanaeth iechyd a lles canolog a veterans mental health clinical network chysylltiedig newydd i gyn-filwyr ar gyfer within each health board area. However, we Cymru gyfan drwy sefydlu rhwydwaith lack data to assess the effectiveness of the clinigol iechyd meddwl o gyn-filwyr ym hub-and-spoke out-patient treatment option mhob ardal bwrdd iechyd. Fodd bynnag, nid run by Dr Bisson in Cardiff. oes gennym ddata i asesu effeithiolrwydd yr opsiwn triniaeth i gleifion allanol ar ffurf gwasanaeth canolog a chysylltiedig a redir gan Dr Bisson yng Nghaerdydd. 3.30 p.m.

We do not know how many returning forces Ni wyddom faint o aelodau‘r lluoedd arfog personnel are now living in Wales with sydd wedi dychwelyd ac sydd bellach yn byw impairments due to physical or mental yng Nghymru sydd â nam o ganlyniad i injuries suffered on duty. It is understood that anafiadau corfforol neu feddyliol a gafwyd Dr Bisson established an extensive pan oeddent ar ddyletswydd. Deellir i Dr assessment, but what are the results of that? Bisson lunio asesiad helaeth, ond beth yw What are the outcome measures from his canlyniadau hynny? Beth yw‘r dulliau o fesur service and, crucially, what is the service canlyniadau o‘i wasanaeth, ac, yn user‘s feedback on this service. hollbwysig, beth yw adborth y defnyddiwr gwasanaeth ar y gwasanaeth hwn.

Regarding a residential centre for veterans in O ran canolfan breswyl i gyn-filwyr yng Wales, the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Nghymru, mae adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal report quotes a Royal Marines veteran, who Iechyd Cymru yn dyfynnu cyn-filwr o‘r Môr- states: filwyr Brenhinol, sy‘n dweud:

‗This would serve as a tangible example of ‗Byddai hyn yn enghraifft bendant o visible commitment to Welsh Servicemen, ymrwymiad gweladwy i Filwyr Cymru, sy‘n who account for at least eight percent of the cynrychioli o leiaf wyth y cant o gyfanswm total UK veteran population.‘ poblogaeth cyn-filwyr y DU.‘

It also quotes a former Welsh guardsmen and Mae hefyd yn dyfynnu cyn-aelod o‘r former Falkland Islands veteran, who had to Gwarchodlu Cymreig a chyn-filwr yn rhyfel travel across the border into England for Ynysoedd Falkland, a oedd yn gorfod teithio treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. ar draws y ffin i Loegr i gael triniaeth ar He identified, gyfer anhwylder straen wedi trawma. Nododd fod,

‗a need to give careful consideration to ‗angen rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i sefydlu establishing a residential centre in Wales‘. canolfan breswyl yng Nghymru‘.

61 07/11/2012

The report states that many members of the Noda‘r adroddiad fod llawer o aelodau o armed forces community commented on the gymuned y lluoedd arfog wedi nodi pa mor desirability of having a residential centre for ddymunol fyddai cael canolfan breswyl i veterans in Wales as, gyn-filwyr yng Nghymru fel,

‗something that you can see, touch and ‗rhywbeth y gallwch ei weld, ei gyffwrdd a‘i feel…of real psychological benefit‘ deimlo ... o fudd seicolegol gwirioneddol‘

The report also recommends that: Mae‘r adroddiad hefyd yn argymell:

‗The Welsh Government should consider the ‗Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried utility of establishing a form of residential defnyddioldeb sefydlu cyfleuster preswyl o facility within Wales.‘ ryw fath yng Nghymru.‘

In evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee Mewn tystiolaeth i‘r Pwyllgor Materion this week, Plaid Cymru Westminster leader, Cymreig yr wythnos hon, rhybuddiodd Elfyn Llwyd, warned that too many armed arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn San Steffan, forces personnel fail to get the help they need Elfyn Llwyd, fod gormod o aelodau‘r lluoedd when returning to civilian life and called for a arfog yn methu â chael y cymorth sydd ei centre to be established in Wales to help angen arnynt wrth ddychwelyd i fywyd veterans suffering from trauma. I applaud his sifilaidd a galwodd am sefydlu canolfan yng dedicated commitment to this issue. Nghymru i helpu cyn-filwyr sy‘n dioddef trawma. Cymeradwyaf ei ymroddiad i‘r mater hwn.

Among combat veterans, there is a common Ymhlith cyn-filwyr sydd wedi ymladd mewn pattern of complex PTSD and attempted brwydrau, ceir patrwm cyffredin o anhwylder symptom suppression through alcohol and/or straen wedi trawma cymhleth ac ymgais i atal drug abuse. That leads to a downward spiral symptomau trwy gamddefnyddio alcohol of employment difficulties, relationship a/neu gyffuriau. Mae hynny‘n arwain at problems, confrontation with the law and batrwm o anawsterau cynyddol o ran gwaith, even suicide. A report from the Howard problemau yn eu perthynas ag eraill, League for Penal Reform, entitled ‗Leave No gwrthdaro â‘r gyfraith a hyd yn oed Veteran Behind‘, asked why so many hunanladdiad. Gofynnodd adroddiad gan y veterans find themselves caught in the Gynghrair dros Ddiwygio‘r Drefn Gosbi, o‘r criminal justice system, stating that it is vital enw ‗Leave No Veteran Behind‘, pam mae that the complex needs of armed forces cymaint o gyn-filwyr yn cael eu dal yn y personnel are adequately addressed and that system cyfiawnder troseddol, gan nodi ei bod we do everything that we can to help those yn hanfodol bod anghenion cymhleth who serve their countries to adjust to civilian aelodau‘r lluoedd arfog yn cael sylw digonol life. a‘n bod yn gwneud popeth a allwn i helpu‘r rhai sy‘n gwasanaethu eu gwlad i addasu i fywyd sifilaidd.

Welsh guardsman, Lance Sergeant Dan Cyflawnodd aelod o‘r Gwarchodlu Cymreig Collins, tragically and unnecessarily took his sef yr Is-ringyll Dan Collins, hunanladdiad life on New Year‘s Day. He desperately yn drasig a diangen ar Ddydd Calan. Taer sought help for his post-traumatic stress, first ofynnodd am help ar gyfer ei straen wedi through the Ministry of Defence‘s medical trawma, yn gyntaf drwy raglen asesiad assessment programme. He was subsequently meddygol y Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn. referred to an NHS mental health ward, Cafodd ei atgyfeirio wedyn at ward iechyd where he spent four weeks without being meddwl y GIG, lle y treuliodd bedair treated with anything other than various wythnos heb gael ei drin gydag unrhyw beth medications. heblaw gwahanol feddyginiaethau.

62 07/11/2012

Last night, by sheer coincidence, I met a Neithiwr, drwy gyd-ddigwyddiad llwyr, decorated young ex-soldier who served in the cyfarfûm â chyn-filwr ifanc medalog a Royal Regiment of Wales and Parachute wasanaethodd yng Nghatrawd Brenhinol Regiment in Kosovo, Northern Ireland and Cymru a Chatrawd y Parasiwtwyr yn Iraq. After leaving the army, he was jailed Kosovo, Gogledd Iwerddon ac Irac. Ar ôl after being convicted in Cardiff Crown Court gadael y fyddin, cafodd ei garcharu ar ôl cael of criminal damage, assault and harassment. ei ddyfarnu‘n euog yn Llys y Goron His barrister told the court that if he were still Caerdydd o ddifrod troseddol, ymosod ac in the army, he would get help and that his aflonyddu. Dywedodd ei fargyfreithiwr wrth scars were not of his own making and that y llys, pe bai yn y fyddin o hyd y byddai‘n no-one seemed interested. The judge told him cael help ac nad oedd yn gyfrifol am ei that he was a brave and outstanding soldier greithiau ei hun ac nad oedd gan neb who saw and experienced dreadful things ddiddordeb ynddo yn ôl pob golwg. from which the rest of us are protected Dywedodd y barnwr wrtho ei fod yn filwr because of the bravery of people like him. dewr a rhagorol a welodd ac a brofodd bethau However, having heard that there was no ofnadwy y mae‘r gweddill ohonom yn cael funding available for further assessment and ein diogelu rhagddynt oherwydd dewrder treatment, the judge told him that it was his pobl tebyg iddo ef. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl duty to say that there was a risk to members clywed nad oedd unrhyw gyllid ar gael ar of the public, who must be protected, and he gyfer asesiad a thriniaeth bellach, dywedodd was sent to prison. Those are only two tragic y barnwr wrtho mai ei ddyletswydd ef oedd incidents, resulting from the inadequate dweud bod risg i aelodau o‘r cyhoedd, y services within Wales. mae‘n rhaid eu diogelu, a chafodd ei anfon i‘r carchar. Dim ond dau ddigwyddiad trasig yw‘r rhain, yn deillio o wasanaethau annigonol yng Nghymru.

The Welsh charity, Healing the Wounds, Mae‘r elusen Gymreig, Healing the Wounds, which delivers PTSD support, is sy‘n rhoi cymorth ar gyfer anhwylder straen campaigning for a place where people can wedi trawma, yn ymgyrchu dros gael lleoliad receive support for PTSD and where they can lle y gall pobl gael cymorth ar gyfer recover. After a recent visit by the Surgeon anhwylder straen wedi trawma a lle y gallant Captain Royal Navy and Defence Professor wella. Ar ôl ymweliad diweddar gan Gapten of Mental Health, Professor Greenberg, he Llawfeddygol y Llynges Frenhinol ac Athro stated that the MoD would be interested in Amddiffyn Iechyd Meddwl, yr Athro the results of its successful therapy model. It Greenberg, dywedodd y byddai gan y now needs the support of the Welsh Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn ddiddordeb yng Government to move forward in clinical trials nghanlyniadau ei model therapi to demonstrate that the outcomes and llwyddiannus. Yn awr mae angen cefnogaeth statistical analysis collected will show an Llywodraeth Cymru arni i symud ymlaen effective therapy that can be recognised by mewn treialon clinigol i ddangos y bydd y the National Institute for Health and Clinical canlyniadau a‘r dadansoddiad ystadegol a Excellence. After all, the NICE PTSD gasglwyd yn dangos therapi effeithiol y gall y guidelines state that treatment and care Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Iechyd a should take into account patients‘ individual Rhagoriaeth Glinigol (NICE) ei chydnabod. needs and preferences. It tells me that it has Wedi‘r cyfan, mae canllawiau NICE ar gyfer requested a meeting with the Minister for anhwylder straen wedi trawma yn nodi y Health and Social Services but has not yet dylai triniaeth a gofal ystyried anghenion a been given an answer. I hope that it will dymuniadau unigol cleifion. Mae‘n dweud receive one soon. The excellent work and wrthyf ei bod wedi gofyn am gyfarfod gyda‘r results of volunteer organisations on the Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau ground must be supported by the Welsh Cymdeithasol ond nid yw wedi cael ateb eto. Government. We therefore call on the Welsh Gobeithio y caiff un yn fuan. Rhaid i waith a Government to heed their call, to remove its chanlyniadau ardderchog sefydliadau amendment and to support our motion. gwirfoddol ar lawr gwlad gael eu cefnogi gan

63 07/11/2012

Lywodraeth Cymru. Galwn felly ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wrando arnynt, i ddileu ei gwelliant a chefnogi ein cynnig.

Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt Amendment 1—Jane Hutt

Ym mhwynt 2, dileu popeth cyn ‘rôl’ a rhoi In point 2, delete all before ‘the role’ and yn ei le: ‘Yn nodi’r buddsoddiad diweddar a replace with: ‘Notes the recent investment in wnaed mewn gwasanaethau yng Nghymru i services in Wales to support ex-service gynorthwyo cyn-filwyr sy’n dioddef personnel suffering with post-traumatic anhwylder straen wedi trawma, ac yn derbyn stress disorder (PTSD) and accepts the pa mor bwysig yw’r’. importance of’.

The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I move Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Cynigiaf amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt. welliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt.

Antoinette Sandbach: I am extremely Antoinette Sandbach: Rwy‘n hynod grateful for the opportunity to contribute to ddiolchgar am y cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl this debate. Everyone in Wales, and in the hon. Mae pawb yng Nghymru, ac yng rest of the UK, owes a debt of gratitude to ngweddill y DU, yn ddiolchgar i‘n lluoedd our armed forces—to the 250,000 Welsh arfog—i‘r 250,000 o gyn-filwyr o Gymru veterans who have served their country, as sydd wedi gwasanaethu eu gwlad, yn ogystal well as to the thousands who currently do so, â‘r miloedd sy‘n gwneud hynny ar hyn o conducting operations in some of the most bryd, sy‘n cynnal ymgyrchoedd yn rhai o‘r dangerous and demanding places on earth. mannau mwyaf peryglus ac anodd ar wyneb The Welsh Guards have returned in October y ddaear. Mae‘r Gwarchodlu Cymreig wedi from a tour of duty in Afghanistan. The 1st dychwelyd ym mis Hydref ar ôl taith ar Battalion the Royal Welsh are currently ddyletswydd yn Affganistan. Mae Bataliwn deployed as part of Operation Herrick 16 in Cyntaf y Cymry Brenhinol yn rhan o Afghanistan. There is a homecoming parade Ymgyrch Herrick 16 yn Affganistan ar hyn o for the Welsh Guards on 30 November, and I bryd. Mae gorymdaith croeso‘n ôl wedi‘i know that the First Minister has been invited threfnu ar gyfer y Gwarchodlu Cymreig ar 30 to that parade. I very much hope that he will Tachwedd, a gwn fod y Prif Weinidog wedi go to it. cael gwahoddiad i‘r orymdaith honno. Gobeithiaf yn fawr y bydd yn bresennol.

It is not the members of the armed forces Nid yr aelodau o‘r lluoedd arfog sy‘n who decide whether or not to go to war; that penderfynu p‘un ai i fynd i ryfel ai peidio, is the responsibility of elected governments. cyfrifoldeb llywodraethau etholedig yw However, they are the ones who serve and hynny. Fodd bynnag, hwy yw‘r rhai sy‘n defend their country. It is an inevitable gwasanaethu ac yn amddiffyn eu gwlad. consequence that many will return from Mae‘n ganlyniad anochel y bydd llawer yn active duty with physical injuries and that dychwelyd ar ôl cyfnod ar faes y gad gydag others will be left with psychological scars in anafiadau corfforol, ac y gadewir eraill â the form of post-traumatic stress disorder, chreithiau seicolegol ar ffurf anhwylder which may emerge in the months, or even, as straen wedi trawma, a all ddod i‘r amlwg yn Mark Isherwood outlined, in the years and y misoedd, neu hyd yn oed, fel y soniodd decades, after the events. Actions are being Mark Isherwood, yn y blynyddoedd a carried out by the third sector, and, in this degawdau ar ôl y digwyddiadau. Mae camau respect, I wish to highlight the role of the gweithredu‘n cael eu cymryd gan y trydydd Welsh Guards Afghanistan appeal. I know sector, ac, yn hyn o beth, rwyf am dynnu that my colleague Mick Antoniw has been sylw at rôl apêl Affganistan y Gwarchodlu active in promoting that appeal. The appeal Cymreig. Gwn fod fy nghyd-Aelod Mick helps those who are seriously injured and Antoniw wedi bod yn weithgar yn

64 07/11/2012 helps families that have suffered hyrwyddo‘r apêl honno. Mae‘r apêl yn bereavement. However, it is a responsibility helpu‘r rhai sy‘n cael eu hanafu‘n ddifrifol ac on Government to deal with the issues that yn helpu teuluoedd sydd wedi dioddef arise from post-traumatic stress disorder, and profedigaeth. Fodd bynnag, cyfrifoldeb y it is entirely right that veterans and service Llywodraeth yw ymdrin â‘r materion sy‘n personnel receive the recognition and the codi o anhwylder straen wedi trawma, ac support they need from society, which has mae‘n gwbl briodol bod cyn-filwyr ac been protected through their self-sacrifice. aelodau‘r lluoedd arfog yn cael y gydnabyddiaeth a‘r cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt gan gymdeithas, sydd wedi cael ei diogelu drwy eu hunan-aberth.

I am sure that Members from all the parties Rwy‘n siŵr y bydd Aelodau o‘r holl bleidiau that are represented here will share the a gynrychiolir yma yn rhannu pryder y concern of the Welsh Conservatives that Ceidwadwyr Cymreig bod rhai diffygion there remain significant shortcomings in the sylweddol o hyd yn y ffordd y mae way that support for veterans in Wales, cefnogaeth i gyn-filwyr yng Nghymru, yn particularly for post-traumatic stress disorder, enwedig ar gyfer anhwylder straen wedi is co-ordinated and delivered. The British trawma, yn cael ei chydgysylltu a‘i darparu. Medical Association describes PTSD services Mae Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain yn dweud as patchy, with significant variations from bod gwasanaethau anhwylder straen wedi area to area. The former Health, Wellbeing trawma yn rhai sy‘n dameidiog, gydag and Local Government Committee‘s inquiry amrywiadau mawr o ardal i ardal. Nododd into PTSD noted that the current system is Ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Lles a still not up to the standard that our veterans Llywodraeth Leol blaenorol i anhwylder deserve. straen wedi trawma bod y system bresennol yn methu o hyd â chyrraedd y safon y mae ein cyn-filwyr yn ei haeddu.

Too often, when veterans and their families Yn rhy aml, pan fydd cyn-filwyr a‘u are struggling with the consequences of teuluoedd yn cael trafferth gyda chanlyniadau PTSD, with depression, alcohol and drug anhwylder straen wedi trawma, iselder abuse, they are unable to get the help that ysbryd, a phroblemau camddefnyddio alcohol they need quickly enough. On a practical a chyffuriau, ni allant gael y cymorth sydd ei basis, when veterans approach their GP, angen arnynt yn ddigon cyflym. Yn many find that few GPs have an ymarferol, pan fydd cyn-filwyr yn mynd at eu understanding of the conditions related to the meddyg teulu, mae llawer yn gweld mai prin armed forces, and their eligibility for priority yw‘r meddygon teulu sy‘n deall y cyflyrau treatment is not always reflected in the sy‘n gysylltiedig â‘r lluoedd arfog, ac ni referral process for secondary care. It is a chaiff eu cymhwysedd i gael triniaeth regrettable situation that when veterans and flaenoriaethol ei adlewyrchu bob amser yn y their families need urgent help, they broses atgyfeirio ar gyfer gofal eilaidd. experience a service that is patchy and Mae‘n anffodus ond, pan fydd angen help ar inconsistent. frys ar gyn-filwyr a‘u teuluoedd, cânt wasanaeth sy‘n dameidiog ac yn anghyson.

The Welsh Government has introduced its Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyflwyno ei 10-year strategy for mental health. However, strategaeth 10 mlynedd ar gyfer iechyd there is only one passing reference in that meddwl. Fodd bynnag, dim ond un cyfeiriad strategy to PTSD, and no mention is made of sydd yn y strategaeth honno at anhwylder the support that is needed by veterans‘ straen wedi trawma, ac ni sonnir am y families. There is a clear case for the gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen ar deuluoedd cyn- voluntary sector in delivering the co- filwyr. Mae achos clir i‘r sector gwirfoddol ordination and the understanding of the needs ymgymryd â‘r gwaith o gydlynu a deall of veterans that is so lacking at present. anghenion cyn-filwyr sydd mor brin ar hyn o

65 07/11/2012

Undoubtedly, the merits of a residential bryd. Heb os, dylid rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i centre for veterans, as recommended by werth canolfan breswyl i gyn-filwyr, fel yr Healthcare Inspectorate Wales, should be argymhellwyd gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd given serious consideration. The Welsh Cymru. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyfle Government also has the opportunity to hefyd i ddangos ei hymrwymiad i gyn-filwyr demonstrate its commitment to veterans by drwy gefnogi Blind Veterans UK, sef St supporting Blind Veterans UK, formerly St Dunstan‘s gynt, sydd â chanolfan yn fy Dunstan‘s, which has a centre in my north etholaeth yn y gogledd. Mae hwn yn Wales constituency. This is a multimillion gyfleuster a gostiodd filiynau o bunnoedd, pound facility, which is funded entirely by sy‘n cael ei ariannu‘n gyfan gwbl gan yr charity and has, to my knowledge, not elusen ac nad ydyw, hyd y gwn i, wedi cael received so much as a penny from Welsh yr un geiniog gan Lywodraeth Cymru er Government despite the excellent service that gwaethaf y gwasanaeth rhagorol a gynigir it offers. Our veterans have made great ganddo. Mae ein cyn-filwyr wedi gwneud sacrifices for their country and I would hope aberth mawr dros eu gwlad a byddwn yn that the Welsh Government would recognise gobeithio y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn this, support the Welsh Conservative motion cydnabod hyn, yn cefnogi cynnig y and commit to giving our veterans the Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ac yn ymrwymo i roi‘r support they deserve. gefnogaeth y maent yn ei haeddu i‘n cyn- filwyr.

Mick Antoniw: I, too, would like to place on Mick Antoniw: Hoffwn innau hefyd gofnodi record my tribute, and that of all my fy nheyrnged i, a theyrnged fy holl gyd- colleagues, because, as the last speaker said Aelodau, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd y so eloquently, our military services do what siaradwr diwethaf mor huawdl, mae ein they are commanded to do; they are not there gwasanaethau milwrol yn gwneud yr hyn y to take the decisions, but the consequences gorchmynnir iddynt ei wneud; nid ydynt yno belong to all of us within a democratic i wneud y penderfyniadau, ond mae‘r society. This must be about the fifth time that goblygiadau yn eiddo i bob un ohonom we have discussed this particular issue, and I mewn cymdeithas ddemocrataidd. Mae‘n raise no criticism of that fact because this is rhaid ein bod yn trafod hyn am tua‘r pumed the sort of complex and difficult issue to tro, ac nid wyf yn beirniadu‘r ffaith honno which we must continually pay our attention. oherwydd dyma‘r math o fater cymhleth ac One of the difficulties with the issue, anodd y mae‘n rhaid inni barhau i roi sylw particularly with regard to psychological iddo. Un o‘r problemau, yn enwedig o ran injury and post-traumatic stress, is that there anaf seicolegol a straen wedi trawma, yw nad is no one-size-fits-all solution to it. People oes un ateb sy‘n addas i bawb. Mae angen i who have been through significant trauma bobl sydd wedi dioddef trawma sylweddol need access to support, care and counselling allu cael gafael ar gymorth, gofal a when problems arise, and for the duration, gwasanaeth cwnsela pan fydd problemau‘n and that can be almost at any time during codi, a thra phery‘r problemau hynny, a gall their life. You are talking about someone who hynny fod bron ar unrhyw adeg yn ystod eu may today leave the armed services bywyd. Rydych yn sôn am rywun a all traumatised, but who may, 20 or 30 years heddiw adael y gwasanaethau arfog yn down the road, experience further problems, dioddef trawma, ond a all, ymhen 20 neu 30 and it may even be a consequence of a mlynedd, wynebu rhagor o broblemau, a gall combination of problems. Vulnerability is hyd yn oed fod o ganlyniad i gyfuniad o created, and then at a certain stage in life, broblemau. Mae‘n golygu bod rhywun yn additional traumas combine to tip the mynd yn agored i niwed, ac yna ar ryw adeg individual over the edge. We are talking mewn bywyd, mae sawl tramwa ychwanegol about a system that needs to be monitored yn dod ynghyd ac yn llethu‘r unigolyn yn and adapted so that there is care and access llwyr. Rydym yn sôn am system y mae angen for life. ei monitro a‘i haddasu fel bod gofal a mynediad am oes.

66 07/11/2012

Another big issue that a number of veterans Mater pwysig arall y mae nifer o gyn-filwyr have raised with me is the problem of wedi ei godi gyda mi yw‘r broblem o hyder confidence because there is still considerable oherwydd mae cryn stigma o hyd ynghlwm stigma attached to psychological injury, wrth anaf seicolegol, anaf meddyliol ac yn y mental injury and so on. First is the actual blaen. Yn gyntaf mae‘r gydnabyddiaeth recognition that the person may need help, wirioneddol y gall fod angen cymorth ar yr and then there is the stage of seeking and unigolyn, ac yna mae‘r cam o geisio a chael accessing that help. The situation becomes gafael ar y cymorth hwnnw. Cymhlethir y further complicated because many of our ex- sefyllfa ymhellach oherwydd mae llawer o‘n servicemen, when they leave the forces and cyn-filwyr, pan adawant y lluoedd arfog a go into jobs, go into other forms of chael swyddi, yn mynd i fathau eraill o uniformed services, be that the police, fire or wasanaethau mewn lifrai, boed hynny gyda‘r ambulance service, or as train drivers and so heddlu, y gwasanaeth tân neu‘r gwasanaeth on. In many of these occupations they will ambiwlans, neu fel gyrwyr trenau ac yn y continue to be exposed to significant trauma; blaen. Mewn llawer o‘r galwedigaethau hyn we know that suicide on train lines is a byddant yn parhau i fod yn agored i drawma massive trauma for train drivers for example. sylweddol; gwyddom fod hunanladdiad ar I recall meeting ex-servicemen who had had linellau trên yn drawma enfawr i yrwyr bad experiences in the forces who then trenau er enghraifft. Rwy‘n cofio cyfarfod â became train drivers only to face and deal chyn-filwyr a oedd wedi cael profiadau gwael with the trauma of incidents in their working yn y lluoedd arfog a aeth ymlaen wedyn i lives. That is without going on to the specific weithio fel gyrwyr trenau ond i wynebu a circumstances of members of the ambulance, delio â thrawma digwyddiadau yn eu fire, and police services, who will see this as bywydau gwaith. Mae hynny heb sôn am a part of their daily lives. amgylchiadau penodol aelodau o‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans, y gwasanaeth tân a‘r heddlu, a fydd yn gweld hyn fel rhan o‘u bywydau beunyddiol.

Organisations and ex-servicemen have said to Mae sefydliadau a chyn-filwyr wedi dweud me that they welcome the fact that there is wrthyf eu bod yn croesawu‘r ffaith bod y this attention within Wales and that steps sylw hwn yng Nghymru a bod camau wedi eu have been taken in Wales that some of their cymryd yng Nghymru y byddai rhai o‘u counterparts in England wished had been cymheiriaid yn Lloegr wedi dymuno eu taken there, with the same level of focus and gweld yn cael eu cymryd yno, gyda‘r un lefel support. If there is one point to be made, o ffocws a chefnogaeth. Os oes un pwynt i‘w particularly this week, it is that I do not think wneud, yn enwedig yr wythnos hon, yna‘r there are any grounds for complacency or for pwynt hwnnw yw nad wyf yn credu bod turning around and saying that we have done unrhyw sail dros laesu dwylo na thros enough. This is something that we will have ddweud ein bod wedi gwneud digon. Mae to deal with, monitor and review almost hyn yn rhywbeth y bydd rhaid inni ymdrin ag annually as time goes on because of the ef, ei fonitro a‘i adolygu bron yn flynyddol nature of the problem and the extent to which wrth i amser fynd heibio oherwydd natur y we are learning from the consequences of broblem a‘r graddau rydym yn dysgu o psychological injury from trauma, which is ganlyniadau anaf seicolegol o drawma, sy‘n ongoing and developing. I very much parhau ac yn datblygu. Rwy‘n croesawu‘n welcome the Conservative debate and the fawr ddadl y Ceidwadwyr a‘r cyfle i ddweud opportunity to put on record my recognition ar goedd fy mod yn cydnabod yr hyn y mae of what a relatively small number of people nifer cymharol fach o bobl yn ei wneud dros do for society and for the population as a gymdeithas a thros y boblogaeth yn whole. gyffredinol.

3.45 p.m.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I welcome the Andrew R.T. Davies: Croesawaf y cyfle i

67 07/11/2012 opportunity to contribute to this debate today gyfrannu at y ddadl hon heddiw yn y cyfnod in the lead up to Remembrance Sunday. cyn Sul y Cofio. Mae llawer o bobl—os nad Many people—if not everyone—in this pawb—yn y Siambr hon yn gwisgo pabi, a Chamber are wearing a poppy, and when you phan fyddwch yn gyrru o gwmpas neu‘n drive around or walk up the high street you cerdded i fyny‘r stryd fawr rydych yn gweld see many people taking part in this act of llawer o bobl yn cymryd rhan yn y weithred remembrance for the people who have given hon o gofio am y bobl sydd wedi rhoi so much for this country. However, we also cymaint dros y wlad hon. Fodd bynnag, mae need to reflect on the very positive aspect of angen inni hefyd fyfyrio ar yr agwedd what our armed services offer many young gadarnhaol iawn o‘r hyn y mae ein lluoedd people in our country today. They offer a arfog yn ei gynnig i lawer o bobl ifanc yn ein great opportunity for a career and they mould gwlad heddiw. Maent yn cynnig cyfle gwych and shape many young individuals to become am yrfa ac yn paratoi llawer o unigolion ifanc upstanding people in our communities. The ar gyfer dod yn bobl a berchir yn ein training and experience that many of our cymunedau. Mae‘r hyfforddiant a‘r profiad a young people get in our armed services shape gaiff llawer o‘n pobl ifanc yn ein lluoedd them, as the Member for Pontypridd touched arfog yn eu paratoi, fel y soniodd yr Aelod on, in their careers beyond the armed dros Bontypridd, ar gyfer eu gyrfaoedd y tu services. I do not have the figure to hand, but hwnt i‘r lluoedd arfog. Nid yw‘r ffigur I would think that the average tenure in the gennyf wrth law, ond byddwn yn credu bod armed services today is about five to 10 unigolion ar gyfartaledd yn treulio oddeutu years. Given that an individual‘s working life pum i 10 mlynedd yn y lluoedd arfog heddiw. is 40 to 50 years, you can see how the O gofio bod bywyd gwaith unigolyn yn 40 i grounding that people get in the armed 50 o flynyddoedd, gallwch weld sut y mae‘r services helps to shape many of the other key sylfaen a gaiff pobl yn y lluoedd arfog yn services that we rely on as a society and a helpu i lunio llawer o‘r gwasanaethau nation. allweddol eraill yr ydym yn dibynnu arnynt fel cymdeithas ac fel cenedl.

In my region, it is a huge privilege to host so Yn fy rhanbarth i, mae‘n fraint enfawr bod yn many ex-servicemen and ex-servicewomen as gartref i gymaint o gyn-filwyr, yn ddynion a well as current service personnel, with merched, yn ogystal ag aelodau presennol, Maindy barracks here in Cardiff and RAF St gyda barics Maendy yma yng Nghaerdydd ac Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan. The RAF Sain Tathan ym Mro Morgannwg. Valleys—Pontypridd, the Rhondda and the Mae‘r Cymoedd—Pontypridd, y Rhondda a Cynon Valley—are also traditional recruiting Chwm Cynon—hefyd yn ardaloedd recriwtio grounds for our armed services, offering such traddodiadol ar gyfer ein lluoedd arfog, ac yn great hope for many people who leave the cynnig llawer o obaith i lawer o bobl sy‘n Valleys and return as more rounded gadael y Cymoedd ac yn dychwelyd fel individuals to offer more back to the unigolion mwy aeddfed i gynnig mwy yn ôl communities that they came from. I also i‘r cymunedau y maent yn hanu ohonynt. recognise the improvements that, in fairness, Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod y gwelliannau y the Government has made. The Minister for mae‘r Llywodraeth, gyda phob tegwch, Local Government and Communities has wedi‘u gwneud. Mae gan y Gweinidog special responsibility for the armed services. Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau gyfrifoldeb The chairman of the all-party group, Darren arbennig am y gwasanaethau arfog. Mae Millar, sits on my right here, and the cadeirydd y grŵp hollbleidiol, Darren Millar, Assembly itself now has a mechanism that yn eistedd ar fy ochr dde yma, ac mae gan y integrates it with the armed services Cynulliad ei hun erbyn hyn ddull sy‘n ei education and information network, which is integreiddio â rhwydwaith addysg a a very positive way forward for this gwybodaeth y gwasanaethau arfog, sy‘n democratic institution of Wales to engage ffordd gadarnhaol iawn ymlaen ar gyfer y with the armed services. sefydliad democrataidd hwn yng Nghymru i ymgysylltu â‘r gwasanaethau arfog.

68 07/11/2012

I remember Armed Forces Day here some Rwy‘n cofio Diwrnod y Lluoedd Arfog yma two or three years ago. There was an event tua dwy neu dair blynedd yn ôl. Cynhaliwyd this year as well, but the one held in Roald digwyddiad eleni hefyd, ond yr un a Dahl Plass was the national event at which all gynhaliwyd yn Roald Dahl Plass oedd y the armed services combined to create a digwyddiad cenedlaethol lle daeth yr holl spectacle that really showed them in their luoedd arfog ynghyd i greu sioe a‘u best light. There is also a cadet force. dangosodd ar eu gorau. Mae corfflu cadetiaid Treorchy Comprehensive School, from my hefyd ar gael. Ymwelodd Ysgol Gyfun region, for example, visited the all-party Treorci, o‘m rhanbarth i, er enghraifft, â‘r group in the Assembly some two or three grŵp hollbleidiol yn y Cynulliad tua dwy neu years ago. It was one of the first schools to dair blynedd yn ôl. Roedd yn un o‘r ysgolion attend that group‘s meetings and showed that, cyntaf i fynychu cyfarfodydd y grŵp hwnnw at such a young age, you can start accessing a dangosodd y gallwch, yn ifanc iawn, the benefits that the armed services offer ddechrau manteisio ar y buddiannau y mae‘r many strands of public life here in Wales. lluoedd arfog yn eu cynnig i lawer o feysydd o fywydd cyhoeddus yma yng Nghymru.

I also want to reflect on the support that is Rwyf hefyd am fyfyrio ar y gefnogaeth sydd required for the albeit small proportion of ei hangen ar gyfer cyfran o bobl, er ei bod yn people who leave the armed services with fach, sy‘n gadael y lluoedd arfog â challenging medical issues. Post-traumatic phroblemau meddygol heriol. stress disorder has been focused on Canolbwyntiwyd yn helaeth ar anhwylder extensively here today, but there are straen wedi trawma yma heddiw, ond mae obviously other medical conditions that need cyflyrau meddygol amlwg eraill y mae angen to be considered, and the speed with which eu hystyried, ac mae gwybod pa mor gyflym our veterans can access the support and help y gall ein cyn-filwyr gael mynediad at y that they need to enable them to live as full a gefnogaeth a‘r cymorth sydd eu hangen life as possible is a critical issue that the arnynt i‘w galluogi i fyw bywyd mor llawn â Government of the day must help deal with. I phosibl yn fater hollbwysig y mae‘n rhaid i‘r hope that the Minister might be able to Llywodraeth bresennol helpu i ddelio ag ef. reconsider the idea of a veterans card, which Gobeithiaf y gallai‘r Gweinidog ailystyried y we proposed in the Assembly election syniad o gerdyn cyn-filwyr, a gynigiwyd campaign. This was not a political gesture; it gennym yn ymgyrch etholiad y Cynulliad. came about as a result of discussions with Nid arwydd gwleidyddol ydoedd; cododd o various armed services charities and the ganlyniad i drafodaethau ag elusennau armed services themselves. It would be an amrywiol wasanaethau arfog a‘r easy way to identify the needs of veterans. gwasanaethau arfog eu hunain. Byddai‘n ffordd hawdd o nodi anghenion cyn-filwyr.

As the Member for Pontypridd touched on, Fel y crybwyllodd yr Aelod dros Bontypridd, the episode during which a person requires gall y cyfnod y mae angen gofal ar unigolyn, care, particularly in the case of PTSD, can be yn enwedig yn achos anhwylder straen wedi 20, 30 or 40 years after the event that caused trawma, ddigwydd 20, 30 neu 40 mlynedd ar it. It became evident to us when we took ôl y digwyddiad a‘i achosodd. Daeth yn evidence in the Health, Wellbeing and Local amlwg inni pan gymerwyd tystiolaeth yn y Government Committee in the last Assembly Pwyllgor Iechyd, Lles a Llywodraeth Leol yn that there is a critical need for medical notes y Cynulliad diwethaf fod angen dybryd am to follow the ex-serviceman or ex- nodiadau meddygol i ddilyn y cyn-filwyr yn servicewoman back to their registered GP so ôl i‘w meddyg teulu cofrestredig, er mwyn that, if these events happen later in life, the sicrhau, os bydd y digwyddiadau hyn yn codi GP, who is their gateway to services, can yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd, y gall y build as full a picture as possible. I would be meddyg teulu, sef eu porth hwy i grateful if the Minister could indicate wasanaethau, gael darlun mor llawn â whether the Government has had any success phosibl. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai‘r

69 07/11/2012 in accessing that facility, because I know Gweinidog nodi a yw‘r Llywodraeth wedi that, at the time, there were various obstacles cael unrhyw lwyddiant wrth ddefnyddio‘r to that facility being made available. cyfleuster hwnnw, oherwydd gwn fod sawl rhwystr ar y pryd yn atal y cyfleuster hwnnw rhag bod ar gael.

Today is about celebrating the armed services Dathlu‘r lluoedd arfog yw diben heddiw ond but also about reflecting on the obligation mae a wnelo hefyd â myfyrio ar y that we as a society owe the armed services. ddyletswydd sydd gennym ni fel cymdeithas In particular, on Remembrance Day, we i‘r lluoedd arfog. Yn benodol, ar Ddydd y remember the fallen men and women of this Cofio, cofiwn am ddynion a merched y wlad country who have allowed us the democratic hon a fu farw sydd wedi rhoi‘r rhyddid freedoms that we enjoy today, which, sadly, democrataidd yr ydym yn ei fwynhau some people take for granted. Democracy can heddiw, y mae rhai pobl, yn anffodus, yn ei never be taken for granted and we owe them gymryd yn ganiataol. Ni ellir byth gymryd a great debt of gratitude. democratiaeth yn ganiataol, ac mae ein dyled yn fawr iddynt.

Elin Jones: Rwyf i hefyd yn falch o gael y Elin Jones: I, too, am pleased to have the cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon, yn enwedig opportunity to contribute to this debate, gan ein bod yn agosáu at Sul y Cofio. Bydd particularly as we edge towards Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi‘r cynnig heddiw ac Remembrance Sunday. Plaid Cymru will yn gwrthod y gwelliant. Mae‘r cynnig yn support the motion today and reject the nodi diffyg cydlyniant gwasanaethau i gyn- amendment. The motion notes the lack of co- filwyr a diffyg pasio gwybodaeth a ordination in terms of services for former chofnodion am gyn-filwyr rhwng y gwahanol soldiers and the deficiencies in passing awdurdodau cyhoeddus a‘r trydydd sector. information between local authorities and the Mae angen protocol i ganiatáu rhannu third sector. We need a protocol to allow the gwybodaeth rhwng y lluoedd arfog, y sharing of information between the armed gwasanaeth iechyd, y sector cyfiawnder forces, the health service, the criminal justice troseddol a‘r sector gwirfoddol. Byddai sector and the voluntary sector. That would hynny‘n caniatáu cymorth llawer mwy allow for a far more integrated approach for integredig i‘r cyn-filwyr sydd angen hynny. former service personnel.

Ym marn Plaid Cymru, mae angen trefn Plaid Cymru believes that we need a much debrief mwy trwyadl i aelodau‘r lluoedd more thorough debrief system for armed arfog cyn iddynt adael y lluoedd, gan forces personnel before they leave the forces, gynnwys asesiadau seicolegol, profion including psychological assessments, drug cyffuriau ac alcohol a sesiynau gwybodaeth and alcohol testing and information sessions ar sut i dynnu‘r stigma o ofyn am help. Mae‘r on how to take the stigma out of asking for adroddiad sydd wedi‘i osod ar gyfer y ddadl assistance. The report tabled for today‘s hon heddiw yn adrodd profiad un cyn-filwr o debate mentions the experience of one former Gymru wrth adael y lluoedd arfog yn dilyn Welsh soldier following the Falklands war on rhyfel y Faulklands yn 1993. Gwnaethpwyd leaving the armed forces in 1993. His final ei asesiad meddygol terfynol gan filwr medical assessment was done by another cyffredin arall yn ticio cyfres o focsys, yn ordinary soldier, ticking a series of boxes, hytrach na chan feddyg o unrhyw fath. rather than by a doctor of any kind.

Mae‘r ddadl hon heddiw yn cyfeirio at yr This debate today refers to the need for a angen am gartref preswyl PTSD yng PTSD residential home in Wales; we in Plaid Nghymru; rydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru yn Cymru support that ambition. However, cefnogi‘r uchelgais hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, former soldiers do suffer a range of mental mae cyn-filwyr yn dioddef o ystod eang o health problems. A recent report by King‘s gyflyrau iechyd meddwl. Mae adroddiad College London shows that the vast majority diweddar gan King‘s College London yn of former soldiers who suffer mental health

70 07/11/2012 dangos bod mwyafrif llethol y cyn-filwyr issues are men, they are middle aged and they sy‘n dioddef o afiechydon meddwl yn have served in the army specifically. In ddynion, yn ganol oed ac yn rhai sydd wedi addition, the study found that 80% of them gwasanaethu yn y fyddin yn benodol. Yn misused alcohol and that 25% had also ychwanegol, canfu‘r astudiaeth bod 80% o‘r broken the law. Elfyn Llwyd MP—we heard rhain yn camddefnyddio alcohol a bod 25% recognition of his work in this field from ohonynt wedi torri‘r gyfraith. Mae‘r Aelod Mark Isherwood in opening the debate—has Seneddol Elfyn Llwyd—clywsom done significant work on the situation of gydnabyddiaeth i‘w waith ef yn y maes hwn former soldiers within the criminal justice gan Mark Isherwood wrth iddo agor y system. Shockingly, there are no data ddadl—wedi gwneud gwaith sylweddol ar available on the number of former soldiers sefyllfa cyn-filwyr yn y system cyfiawnder who are in prison. No questions are asked troseddol. Yn gwbl ryfeddol, nid oes data ar and no data are gathered on the number of gael ar nifer y cyn-filwyr sydd yn y carchar. prisoners who are former soldiers. In 2001, Nid oes cwestiynau‘n cael eu gofyn na data‘n the Home Office carried out a survey that cael eu cofnodi ar nifer y carcharorion sy‘n showed that 6% of prisoners were former gyn-filwyr. Yn 2001, gwnaeth y Swyddfa soldiers. A study conducted in Dartmoor Gartref arolwg a nododd bod 6% o prison in 2007 states that 17% of the inmates garcharorion yn gyn-filwyr. Mae astudiaeth o were, possibly, former soldiers. Whether it is garchar Dartmoor yn 2007 yn dweud bod 6% or 17%, it is too high. 17% o‘r carcharion, o bosibl, yn gyn-filwyr. Pa un ai yw‘r ffigur yn 6% neu‘n 17%, mae‘n rhy uchel.

Nid wyf yn arbenigwraig o gwbl ar brofiadau I am no expert on soldiers‘ wartime milwyr mewn rhyfel. Nid wyf chwaith wedi experiences, nor have I supported every war cefnogi pob rhyfel mae‘r milwyr hyn wedi that they have fought over the past few years, ymladd ynddynt dros y blynyddoedd but I know enough to know that they deserve diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, rwy‘n gwybod digon better than to end up dependent on alcohol or i gredu eu bod yn haeddu gwell na bod yn drugs, as offenders, prison inmates or ddibynnol ar alcohol neu gyffuriau, yn patients. They deserve far better than that droseddwyr, yn garcharorion neu‘n gleifion. from the Welsh Government and from the Maent yn haeddu llawer gwell na hynny gan Westminster Government. y Llywodraeth yn Nghymru a‘r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan.

Rwy‘n croesawu‘r ffaith bod y cynnig hwn I welcome the fact that this motion today also heddiw hefyd yn sôn am bwysigrwydd mentions the importance of war memorials. cofebion rhyfel. Byddaf, fel nifer ohonom, yn Like many Members, I will attend two red mynychu dau ddigwyddiad pabi coch yn fy poppy events in my constituency over the etholaeth dros y dyddiau nesaf. Bydd rhai yn coming days. Some in my constituency will fy etholaeth hefyd yn mynychu digwyddiad also attend a white poppy event at the war pabi gwyn wrth y gofeb rhyfel yng nghastell memorial at Aberystwyth castle, organised by Aberystwyth, wedi‘i drefnu gan Gyngor Tref Aberystwyth Town Council. The council is to Aberystwyth. Mae‘r cyngor i‘w gymeradwyo be praised for holding such a ceremony, not am gynnal seremoni o‘r fath; nid mewn in competition with the traditional cystadleuaeth â seremonïau cofio remembrance ceremonies, but to give public traddodiadol, ond i roi cydnabyddiaeth acknowledgment to the right to believe in gyhoeddus i‘r hawl i gredu mewn heddwch pacifism as well as, or rather than, war. yn ogystal â, neu‘n hytrach na, rhyfel.

Mewn dwy flynedd, byddwn yn cydnabod In two years, we will mark 100 years since canmlwyddiant dechrau‘r rhyfel byd cyntaf. the start of the first world war. Like my Fel fy nghyfaill Jonathan Edwards, rwyf colleague Jonathan Edwards, I would be hefyd yn fwy cyfforddus gyda chydnabod more comfortable with marking the end of

71 07/11/2012 diwedd y rhyfel yn hytrach na‘i ddechrau. that war rather than its start. However, as part Fodd bynnag, fel rhan o gydnabod y rhyfel, of marking the start of the first world war, erchylltra‘r rhyfel ac aberth cenhedlaeth o and the horrors of that conflict and the Gymry ifanc, byddwn yn gobeithio y gallai‘r sacrifice of a generation of young Welsh Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Cymru, yn y gwaith people, I would hope that the Assembly and mae Carwyn Jones wedi comisiynu Deian the Welsh Government, in the work that Hopkin i‘w wneud ar ran y Llywodraeth, Carwyn Jones has commissioned Deian ystyried mabwysiadu pabi coch penodol Hopkin to do on behalf of the Government, Gymreig ar gyfer ein cof ni fel cenedl o‘r could consider adopting a specifically Welsh rhyfel byd cyntaf a gweithio gyda‘r Lleng red poppy for our remembrance as a nation of Brydeinig Frenhinol a mudiadau eraill sydd the first world war, and work with the Royal yn ymwneud â‘r pabi coch i ddatblygu pabi British Legion and other organisations penodol ar gyfer cofio‘r rhyfel byd cyntaf. involved with the red poppy to develop a specific poppy for commemorating the first world war.

I gloi, yr hyn sy‘n bwysig yw ein bod yn In conclusion, what is important is that we edrych eto yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw o 2014 i look again during the period from 2014 to 2018 ar ofalu yn gynyddol am anghenion ein 2018 at taking increasing care of the needs of milwyr a chyn-filwyr. soldiers and former soldiers.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Thank you, Dirprwy Janet Finch-Saunders: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd for calling me to contribute to this Lywydd am fy ngalw i gyfrannu at y ddadl important debate. There can be no doubt that bwysig hon. Yn ddiau mae ein lluoedd arfog our British armed forces are among the best Prydeinig gyda‘r gorau yn y byd ac mae in the world and that Wales‘s contribution to cyfraniad Cymru i rengoedd ein dynion a‘n the ranks of our brave men and women in merched dewr mewn lifrai yn fawr. Ar hyn o uniform is substantial. There are currently an bryd mae tua 5,000 o filwyr parhaol a 3,000 o estimated 5,000 regular and 3,000 reservist rai wrth gefn o Gymru yn gwasanaethu yn ein personnel from Wales serving in our armed lluoedd arfog a 220,000 o gyn-filwyr eraill yn forces and a further 220,000 veterans living byw yng Nghymru. Er mwyn gosod hynny in Wales. In order to place that in context, mewn cyd-destun, mae‘n debyg i boblogaeth that is like talking about the population of Abertawe, sef tua 238,000 o bobl. Mae Swansea, which stands at around 238,000 cynnig heddiw nid yn unig yn ceisio talu people. Today‘s motion seeks not only to pay teyrnged i aelodau dewr ein lluoedd arfog a‘r tribute to our brave service personnel and the cyfraniad enfawr a wnaethant dros heddwch a immense contribution that they have made to diogelwch ein gwlad, ond hefyd yn tynnu the peace and security of our nation, but also sylw at rai o‘r heriau sy‘n eu hwynebu o ran to highlight some of the challenges that they cael gafael ar wasanaethau a‘r angen dybryd i face in accessing services and the urgent need ymdrin â‘r heriau hynny. for those challenges to be addressed.

The 2012 Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Nododd adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd report entitled ‗Healthcare and the Armed 2012 o‘r enw ‗Gofal Iechyd a Chymuned y Forces Community in Wales‘ outlined a Lluoedd Arfog yng Nghymru‘ nifer o number of difficulties faced by service anawsterau a wynebir gan aelodau‘r lluoedd personnel, their families and veterans. With arfog, eu teuluoedd a chyn-filwyr. O ran regard to accessing health services, the report mynediad at wasanaethau iechyd, canfu‘r found that GPs do not always adroddiad nad yw‘n ymddangos bod meddygon teulu bob amser yn

‗seem to understand the rigours of service life ‗deall pa mor galed oedd bywyd yn y – even when made aware of a patient‘s Lluoedd Arfog – hyd yn oed pan oeddynt yn veteran status.‘ ymwybodol o statws y claf fel cyn-filwr‘

72 07/11/2012

There was a general feeling that eligibility for Roedd teimlad cyffredinol nad oedd priority treatment was not always reflected in cymhwysedd i gael triniaeth flaenoriaethol yn the referral process and that cael ei adlewyrchu bob amser yn y broses atgyfeirio ac

‗the role of the Reservist was not well ‗nad oedd gan y GIG ddealltwriaeth dda o understood by the NHS.‘ swyddogaeth y Lluoedd Wrth Gefn.‘

This included Roedd hyn yn cynnwys

‗on more than one occasion that a serving ‗ar fwy nag un achlysur bod aelod o‘r Reservist had been categorised as a Lluoedd Wrth Gefn a oedd yn gwasanaethu ‗veteran‘.‘ wedi ei gategoreiddio fel ‗cyn-filwr‘.‘

Veterans, along with serving personnel and Mae cyn-filwyr, ynghyd ag aelodau sy‘n their families, face a range of mental health gwasanaethu a‘u teuluoedd, yn wynebu and wellbeing challenges that need expert amrywiaeth o heriau iechyd a lles meddyliol time and resources to tackle, and there is no y mae angen amser ac adnoddau arbenigol i denying or getting away from that. A fynd i‘r afael â hwy, ac ni ellir gwadu nac common problem is post-traumatic stress anwybyddu hynny. Problem gyffredin yw disorder, which, according to NHS figures, anhwylder straen wedi trawma, sydd, yn ôl can affect up to 30% of people who ffigurau‘r GIG, yn effeithio ar hyd at 30% o experience a traumatic event during their bobl sy‘n profi digwyddiad trawmatig yn lives. A growing concern is the level of stress ystod eu bywydau. Pryder cynyddol yw lefel and anxiety faced by service families. For y straen a‘r pryder a wynebir gan deuluoedd instance, the 2012 report highlighted the fact y lluoedd arfog. Er enghraifft, tynnodd that both unit welfare officers and the army adroddiad 2012 sylw at y ffaith bod welfare service have noted an increasing swyddogion lles uned a gwasanaeth lles y level of mental health issues among service fyddin wedi nodi lefel gynyddol o broblemau families, along with an increase in alcohol iechyd meddwl ymhlith teuluoedd y lluoedd misuse, and that there is a lack of knowledge arfog, ynghyd â chynnydd yn y camddefnydd and self-awareness among older veterans and o alcohol, a bod diffyg gwybodaeth a their families regarding service-related hunanymwybyddiaeth ymysg cyn-filwyr hŷn mental health issues. a‘u teuluoedd o ran problemau iechyd meddwl sy‘n gysylltiedig â gwasanaeth.

To look at solutions, such as residential care I edrych ar atebion, megis gofal preswyl a and centres, the Welsh Conservatives want to chanolfannau preswyl, mae‘r Ceidwadwyr see action across the board to support our Cymreig am weld gweithredu cyffredinol i servicemen and servicewomen and veterans. gefnogi ein milwyr a‘n cyn-filwyr. Nododd Healing the Wounds stated last year that the Healing the Wounds y llynedd fod Welsh Government‘s refusal to fund a penderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru i wrthod residential unit due to costs puts Wales ‗at a ariannu uned breswyl oherwydd costau yn distinct disadvantage‘. I do not need to rhoi Cymru o dan anfantais amlwg. Nid oes remind many of you that we had such a angen imi atgoffa llawer ohonoch o‘r fantastic residential facility in Tŷ Gwyn—a cyfleuster preswyl gwych a oedd gennym yn service that was, sadly, withdrawn by the Nhŷ Gwyn—gwasanaeth a gafodd ei ddileu, Welsh Labour Government some years ago. yn anffodus, gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru That is why the Welsh Government should rai blynyddoedd yn ôl. Dyna pam y dylai and must now look to establish a residential Llywodraeth Cymru yn awr ystyried sefydlu centre for veterans as an absolute priority. canolfan breswyl i gyn-filwyr fel blaenoriaeth lwyr.

The 2012 report also found that veteran Canfu adroddiad 2012 hefyd fod grwpiau

73 07/11/2012 support groups are a helpful complement to cymorth i gyn-filwyr yn adnodd defnyddiol therapy. Third sector organisations and sy‘n ategu therapi. Gall y sefydliadau yn y charities must and can play a vital role in trydydd sector ac elusennau chwarae rôl providing the additional emotional support hanfodol i ddarparu‘r cymorth emosiynol that our service personnel, veterans and their ychwanegol sydd ei angen ar ein haelodau yn families need, and funding for such y lluoedd arfog, cyn-filwyr a‘u teuluoedd a organisations should be prioritised and rhaid iddynt wneud hynny, a dylai cyllid ar protected, as far as is possible. gyfer sefydliadau o‘r fath gael ei flaenoriaethu a‘i ddiogelu, cyn belled ag y bo modd.

We need action across Government, local Mae angen gweithredu ym mhob rhan o‘r authorities and the police to end the Llywodraeth, awdurdodau lleol a‘r heddlu i despicable and wanton vandalism of Wales‘s roi diwedd ar y fandaliaeth ffiaidd a di-hid o 3,000 war memorials. I know that I have 3000 o gofebion rhyfel Cymru. Gwn fy mod raised concerns about metal theft previously, wedi codi pryderon am achosion o ddwyn which affects all kinds of areas, but none metel o‘r blaen, sy‘n effeithio ar bob math o more so than when people desecrate a feysydd, ond yn enwedig pan fydd pobl yn memory and recognition of the service and halogi cof a chydnabyddiaeth o‘r gwasanaeth the lives placed on the line so that we can sit a‘r bywydau a roddwyd yn y fantol er mwyn or even stand here to debate this issue. i ni allu eistedd neu hyd yn oed sefyll yma i drafod y mater hwn.

4.00 p.m.

Two years since the Welsh Government Ddwy flynedd ers i Lywodraeth Cymru established an expert group on the needs of sefydlu grŵp arbenigol ar anghenion y the armed forces community in Wales, it gymuned lluoedd arfog yng Nghymru, rhaid remains to be seen as to whether there has aros i weld a fu unrhyw welliant sylweddol o been any significant improvement in the ran y gwasanaethau a ddarperir ar gyfer provision of services for our armed forces aelodau ein lluoedd arfog a chyn-filwyr. Gwn personnel and veterans. I know that it is only mai dim ond blwyddyn sydd ers inni drafod y a year since we discussed this matter; it was mater hwn; roedd yr union amser, yn yr un exactly at the same time, in the same week. I wythnos. Nid wyf yn rhy argyhoeddedig bod am not too convinced that anything other unrhyw beth heblaw geiriau wedi digwydd. than words have taken place. I want to know Rwyf am wybod ble y gallaf weld rhai camau where I can see some actions for what has gweithredu ar gyfer yr hyn sydd wedi happened in the last 12 months. We are still digwydd yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf. Rydym waiting to see any moves towards yn dal i aros i weld unrhyw gamau tuag at establishing a residential centre for ex-service sefydlu canolfan breswyl i gyn-filwyr yng personnel in Wales. We are still waiting for Nghymru. Rydym yn dal i aros am fwy o greater investment in PTSD—the £485,000 fuddsoddiad mewn anhwylder straen wedi for a veterans mental health service does not trawma—nid yw‘r £485,000 ar gyfer take into account inflation. We are still gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl i gyn-filwyr yn waiting for co-ordinated action to protect our cymryd chwyddiant i ystyriaeth. Rydym yn war memorials. The Welsh Conservatives dal i aros am gamau wedi‘u cydlynu i want to see more ambition, more action and ddiogelu ein cofebion rhyfel. Mae‘r more achievement from this Welsh Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am weld mwy o Government to help those who have given uchelgais, mwy o weithredu a mwy o this country so much. gyflawniad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i helpu‘r rhai sydd wedi rhoi cymaint i‘r wlad hon.

Kirsty Williams: I begin by thanking the Kirsty Williams: Dechreuaf drwy ddiolch i‘r Welsh Conservatives for tabling today‘s Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am gyflwyno‘r ddadl debate, at this most appropriate time of year. heddiw, ar yr adeg briodol hon o‘r flwyddyn.

74 07/11/2012

It is a motion that the Welsh Liberal Mae‘n gynnig y bydd Democratiaid Democrats will support. As a party, we have Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn ei gefnogi. Fel plaid, great pride in and a huge amount of gratitude rydym yn ymfalchïo yn ein lluoedd arfog ac to our armed forces for their service to our yn ddiolchgar iawn iddynt am eu gwasanaeth country and for the sacrifice made by i‘n gwlad ac am yr aberth a wnaed gan individual members of the armed forces and aelodau unigol o‘r lluoedd arfog a‘u their families, who often have a huge burden teuluoedd, sydd yn aml yn ysgwyddo baich to bear when they have members of their enfawr pan fydd aelodau o‘u teulu yn family serving overseas in particular. gwasanaethu dramor yn arbennig.

As leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Fel arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol and as the Assembly Member for Brecon and Cymru, ac fel yr Aelod Cynulliad dros Radnor, I am extremely proud to represent Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed, rwy‘n hynod o the garrison town of Brecon, the headquarters falch o gynrychioli tref garsiwn Aberhonddu, of the Welsh army, and of 160 (Wales) pencadlys byddin Cymru, a Brigâd 160 Brigade under the great leadership of (Cymru) dan arweiniad cadarn y Brigadydd Brigadier Napier, as well as the infantry Napier, yn ogystal â‘r ysgol hyfforddiant i training school at Dering Lines, the droedfilwyr yn Dering Lines, gwersyll Sennybridge camp, of course, and the Epynt Pontsenni, wrth gwrs, a meysydd ymarfer ranges. In fact, I suspect that there is not a saethu Epynt. Yn wir, rwy‘n amau nad oes member of the British army who has not, at aelod o fyddin Prydain nad yw, ar ryw adeg some point in their career, spent some time yn ei yrfa, wedi treulio rhywfaint o amser ar on those infamous hills in the wet, the wind, y bryniau drwgenwog hynny yn y gwynt a‘r and the cold. I have been privileged in the glaw a‘r oerfel. Mae wedi bod yn fraint imi past to go out onto the ranges with the army, fynd ar y meysydd ymarfer saethu yn y doing the Cambrian march, which is not to be gorffennol gyda‘r fyddin, a oedd yn gwneud entered into lightly. It was a great experience ymdaith Cymru, sy‘n dipyn o her. Roedd yn to go up to have a look at it as my own brofiad gwych mynd i fyny i edrych ar hyn grandfather completed the Cambrian march gan fod fy nhad-cu fy hun wedi cwblhau‘r three times as a sergeant major following the ymdaith dair gwaith fel uwch-ringyll yn dilyn second world war. yr ail ryfel byd.

I am pleased that Powys County Council Rwy‘n falch bod Cyngor Sir Powys wedi recently signed a military compact with the llofnodi cytundeb milwrol yn ddiweddar â‘r armed forces—it was one of the first local lluoedd arfog—roedd yn un o‘r awdurdodau authorities in Wales to do so—which lleol cyntaf yng Nghymru i wneud hynny—a recognised the council and the local health oedd yn cydnabod cyfrifoldebau‘r cyngor a‘r board‘s responsibilities towards the armed bwrdd iechyd lleol tuag at y lluoedd arfog yn services within the county of Powys. It also sir Powys. Roedd hefyd yn cydnabod y recognised the huge contribution that the cyfraniad enfawr y mae‘r lluoedd arfog yn ei armed services make to the county of Powys, wneud i sir Powys, a bod yna bobl yn y and that there are people in the armed lluoedd arfog, ynghyd â‘u teuluoedd, sy‘n services, along with their families, who are barod i roi o‘u hamser rhydd i helpu aelodau willing to give of their free time to assist non- anfilwrol yn ardal Aberhonddu. military personnel within the area of Brecon.

One of the great discussions at that meeting Un o‘r trafodaethau mawr yn y cyfarfod was the need to have appropriate medical hwnnw oedd yr angen i gael gwasanaethau services. Much of this afternoon has been meddygol priodol. Mae llawer o amser y taken up by discussions about post-traumatic prynhawn yma wedi ei dreulio yn trafod stress disorder, and it has rightly been said by anhwylder straen wedi trawma, a dywedwyd many Members here that it can take many yn briodol gan lawer o Aelodau yma y gall years to manifest itself. Given the recent gymryd blynyddoedd lawer i ddod i‘r amlwg. long-term military engagement in which the O ystyried yr ymgyrchoedd milwrol UK has been involved, we can expect a long hirdymor diweddar y mae‘r DU wedi bod yn

75 07/11/2012 legacy of military personnel coming forward gysylltiedig â hwy, gallwn ddisgwyl cyfnod with symptoms. The army and the medical hir o weld aelodau milwrol yn datblygu services within the armed forces have symptomau. Mae‘r fyddin a‘r gwasanaethau become very adept at saving people‘s lives meddygol yn y lluoedd arfog wedi dod yn and treating them physically. They are at the fedrus iawn o ran arbed bywydau pobl a‘u cutting-edge of the latest trauma medical trin yn gorfforol. Maent ar flaen y gad o ran y experience. However, as a country, we have profiad meddygol trawma diweddaraf. Fodd been less good at developing the skills to bynnag, fel gwlad, rydym wedi bod yn llai treat the mental scars and wounds of military llwyddiannus o ran datblygu‘r sgiliau i drin service. creithiau a chlwyfau meddyliol gwasanaeth milwrol.

Levels of mental health disorder in the army Mae lefelau anhwylder iechyd meddwl yn y are rising. The MOD admits that, and it also fyddin yn codi. Mae‘r Weinyddiaeth admits that someone who has seen service in Amddiffyn yn cyfaddef hynny, ac mae hefyd Afghanistan is six times more likely to go on yn cyfaddef bod rhywun sydd wedi gweld to suffer from mental health disorders than gwasanaeth yn Affganistan chwe gwaith yn other service personnel. We need a fwy tebygol o ddioddef anhwylderau iechyd comprehensive strategy to deal with these meddwl nag aelodau eraill o‘r lluoedd arfog. problems that links the statutory NHS Mae angen strategaeth gynhwysfawr arnom i services with the efforts of voluntary groups. ddelio â‘r problemau hyn sy‘n cysylltu‘r I have been delighted to see my own gwasanaethau GIG statudol ag ymdrechion constituency‘s ex-service personnel working grwpiau gwirfoddol. Rwyf wedi bod yn falch together to develop a voluntary drop-in centre o weld cyn-filwyr yn fy etholaeth fy hun yn where people can simply get together to have gweithio gyda‘i gilydd i ddatblygu canolfan a cup of tea or coffee, away from the pub and galw heibio wirfoddol lle y gall pobl ddod alcohol, and are able to have a chat about ynghyd i gael paned o de neu goffi, i ffwrdd their own service history and what they are oddi wrth y dafarn ac alcohol, a chael sgwrs doing in their lives now. We need to have a am hanes eu gwasanaeth eu hunain a‘r hyn y range of options, from the extreme of a maent yn ei wneud yn eu bywydau yn awr. simple, local drop-in centre, right the way Mae angen inni gael ystod o ddewisiadau, o through to the more extensive comprehensive ganolfan galw i mewn leol, syml, hyd at y services that a residential setting would gwasanaethau cynhwysfawr mwy helaeth y allow. If the Minister is interested in byddai lleoliad preswyl yn gallu eu cynnig. developing such a unit, I would like to offer Os oes gan y Gweinidog ddiddordeb mewn up the site of Bronllys Hospital in my own datblygu uned o‘r fath, hoffwn gynnig safle constituency. There is a great deal of local Ysbyty Bronllys yn fy etholaeth fy hun. Mae interest in whether that site could host such a llawer iawn o ddiddordeb lleol o ran p‘un a service. Local people would very much allai‘r safle hwnnw gynnal gwasanaeth o‘r welcome such a service being hosted locally fath. Byddai pobl leol yn falch iawn o weld and would be very supportive of that. gwasanaeth o‘r fath yn cael ei gynnal yn lleol a byddent yn gefnogol iawn i hynny.

However, Mick Antoniw was right to Fodd bynnag, roedd Mick Antoniw yn iawn i highlight the fact that PTSD is not just an dynnu sylw at y ffaith nad yw anhwylder issue for the military services. We need straen wedi trawma yn fater i‘r gwasanaethau PTSD services that look at the impact on milwrol yn unig. Mae angen gwasanaethau other service personnel, whether they are anhwylder straen wedi trawma arnom sy‘n police officers, firefighters, paramedics or edrych ar yr effaith ar aelodau gwasanaethau other emergency service personnel who often eraill, boed yn swyddogion yr heddlu, see such terrible things. We need to ensure diffoddwyr tân, parafeddygon neu aelodau that their needs are met as part of the eraill o‘r gwasanaeth brys sy‘n aml yn gweld Government‘s mental health programme. pethau ofnadwy o‘r fath. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod eu hanghenion yn cael eu diwallu fel rhan o raglen iechyd meddwl y

76 07/11/2012

Llywodraeth.

In conclusion, I welcome the mention of war I gloi, croesawaf y sôn am gofebion rhyfel. memorials. There is also the issue of Cyfyd mater amgueddfeydd catrodol hefyd. regimental museums. I am proud to host one Rwy‘n falch fod un yn Aberhonddu. Mae in Brecon. There is a great discussion about trafodaeth fawr ynghylch ble y dylai casgliad where the great collection of the Zulu war mawr ystafell rhyfel y Zulu gael ei gynnal yn room should be held in the future. If the y dyfodol. Os hoffai‘r Gweinidog ymweld â‘r Minister would like to visit the museum with amgueddfa gyda mi i drafod sut y gallwn me to talk about how we can secure its future, sicrhau ei dyfodol, byddwn yn falch iawn o‘i I would be very pleased to welcome him to groesawu i Aberhonddu. Brecon.

The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I am Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Rwy‘n grateful for the opportunity to discuss the ddiolchgar am y cyfle i drafod cymuned y armed forces community with Members lluoedd arfog gyda‘r Aelodau heddiw. today. I support the motion to pay tribute to Cefnogaf y cynnig i dalu teyrnged i aberth ac the immense sacrifice and commitment of ymrwymiad aruthrol y rhai sydd wedi those who have served in the armed forces. It gwasanaethu yn y lluoedd arfog. Mae‘n adeg is a particularly poignant time of the year for o‘r flwyddyn sy‘n arbennig o ingol ar gyfer y this debate, with services of remembrance ddadl hon, gyda gwasanaethau coffa yn cael being held across the country on Sunday. eu cynnal ledled y wlad ddydd Sul.

War memorials are an important part of Mae cofebion rhyfel yn rhan bwysig o commemoration, and volunteers do a goffáu, ac mae gwirfoddolwyr yn gwneud fantastic job in ensuring that they are gwaith gwych i sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu protected. The Welsh Government provides diogelu. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu for the conservation of war memorials, and ar gyfer gwarchod cofebion rhyfel, ac mae support is also available through the War cymorth ar gael hefyd drwy‘r Memorials Trust. As well as paying tribute to Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebion Rhyfel. Yn our veterans, we need to show our support for ogystal â thalu teyrnged i‘n cyn-filwyr, mae the whole armed forces community. In June, angen inni ddangos ein cefnogaeth i gymuned we provided funding for two Armed Forces gyfan y lluoedd arfog. Ym mis Mehefin, Day events in north and south Wales, which gwnaethom ddarparu cyllid ar gyfer dau the First Minister and I attended. I am ddigwyddiad Diwrnod y Lluoedd Arfog yn y pressing local authorities to introduce local gogledd a‘r de, yr aeth y Prif Weinidog a community covenants, and I am pleased to minnau iddynt. Pwysaf ar awdurdodau lleol i report that 16 of the 22 local authorities in gyflwyno cyfamodau cymunedol lleol, ac Wales have either signed or are about to rwy‘n falch o nodi bod 16 o‘r 22 awdurdod introduce community covenants. That is over lleol yng Nghymru naill ai wedi llofnodi neu two-thirds of the local authorities in Wales, ar fin cyflwyno cyfamodau cymunedol. Mae and we should be particularly proud of that. hynny‘n golygu dros ddwy ran o dair o‘r awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, a dylem fod yn arbennig o falch o hynny.

It is almost a year since the Welsh Mae bron blwyddyn ers i Lywodraeth Cymru Government published a package of support gyhoeddi pecyn o gymorth ar gyfer y lluoedd for the armed forces. In fact, I had already arfog. Yn wir, roeddwn eisoes wedi cyflwyno tabled a debate for 20 November to report dadl ar gyfer 20 Tachwedd i adrodd yn ôl ar y back on the progress made over the last 12 cynnydd a wnaed dros y 12 mis diwethaf. Yn months. I will instead take this opportunity to hytrach, manteisiaf ar y cyfle hwn i roi provide a brief update. During November, I crynodeb o‘r newyddion diweddaraf. Yn will be publishing the annual update report ystod mis Tachwedd, byddaf yn cyhoeddi‘r on the package of support, and during 2013 adroddiad diweddaru blynyddol ar y pecyn

77 07/11/2012 we will update the package to include new cymorth, ac yn ystod 2013 byddwn yn developments and further commitments. We diweddaru‘r pecyn i gynnwys datblygiadau have already delivered on many of the newydd ac ymrwymiadau pellach. Rydym commitments, and I will come back to the eisoes wedi cyflawni llawer o‘r more detailed health matters shortly. On the ymrwymiadau, a byddaf yn dod yn ôl at y other issues, we have progressed on housing, materion iechyd manylach maes o law. O ran including the extension of the homebuy y materion eraill, rydym wedi gweithredu o scheme to cover widows and widowers of ran tai, gan gynnwys ymestyn y cynllun personnel killed in action. We have also cymorth prynu i gynnwys gwragedd a gwŷr made arrangements for the disabled facilities gweddw aelodau a fu farw ar faes y gad. grants means-testing process to change. In Rydym hefyd wedi gwneud trefniadau i 2012, we published guidance for local newid proses prawf modd y grant authorities on the allocation of cyfleusterau i‘r anabl. Yn 2012, cyhoeddwyd accommodation for homeless people; this canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ar ddyrannu includes priority status for social housing for llety i bobl ddigartref; mae hyn yn cynnwys seriously injured and disabled servicemen statws blaenoriaeth ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol and servicewomen, and references i filwyr a anafwyd yn ddifrifol a milwyr certificates of cessation as proof of anabl, ac yn cyfeirio at dystysgrifau hawl independent homelessness. wedi dod i ben fel prawf o ddigartrefedd annibynnol.

We have consulted on the housing White Rydym wedi ymgynghori ar y Papur Gwyn ar Paper, and we will be working with veterans dai, a byddwn yn gweithio gyda sefydliadau organisations on the implementation of the cyn-filwyr ar weithredu‘r cynigion atal homeless prevention proposals that it digartrefedd sydd ynddo. Rydym wedi bwrw contains. We have also progressed ymlaen â datblygiadau hefyd ym maes developments in education, including addysg, gan gynnwys newidiadau i bolisi changes to the school administration policy to gweinyddol ysgol i gefnogi teuluoedd sy‘n support families being posted here in Wales. cael eu hanfon i fyw yma yng Nghymru. Mae Officials have established a standing swyddogion wedi sefydlu pwyllgor sefydlog committee on education services in Wales, ar wasanaethau addysg yng Nghymru, a bydd and the committee will consider all of the y pwyllgor yn ystyried yr holl faterion y mae issues that children and families face on plant a theuluoedd yn eu hwynebu o ran educational matters in Wales. We are also materion addysgol yng Nghymru. Rydym working with key partners to develop a pilot hefyd yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid scheme to provide free swimming to service allweddol i ddatblygu cynllun peilot i personnel and veterans, and the results of the ddarparu nofio am ddim i aelodau‘r lluoedd pilot will inform our plans. arfog a chyn-filwyr, a bydd canlyniadau‘r cynllun beilot yn sail i‘n cynlluniau.

As far as the issues regarding PTSD are O ran y materion ynghylch anhwylder straen concerned, I am rightly proud of this wedi trawma, rwy‘n falch o record y Government‘s record in treating PTSD. We Llywodraeth hon o drin anhwylder straen have invested heavily in this area and wedi trawma a hynny‘n briodol. Rydym wedi established the all-Wales veterans health and buddsoddi‘n helaeth yn y maes hwn ac wedi wellbeing service with almost £0.5 million of sefydlu gwasanaeth iechyd a lles i gyn-filwyr funding annually. The service is led by an i Gymru gyfan gyda bron £0.5 miliwn o internationally renowned figure in the gyllid yn flynyddol. Mae‘r gwasanaeth yn treatment of PTSD and provides dedicated cael ei arwain gan ffigwr rhyngwladol enwog veteran therapists in each of the local health ym maes triniaeth anhwylder straen wedi board areas. I will give examples of waiting trawma ac mae‘n darparu therapyddion times in some of the services, which penodedig i gyn-filwyr ym mhob ardal bwrdd Members have raised with me today. As iechyd lleol. Byddaf yn rhoi enghreifftiau o regards services at Betsi Cadwaladr amseroedd aros yn rhai o‘r gwasanaethau, y University Local Health Board—I recognise mae Aelodau wedi‘u codi gyda mi heddiw. O

78 07/11/2012 the excellent work undertaken by the ran gwasanaethau ym Mwrdd Iechyd Lleol Member who is in the armed forces group Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr—rwy‘n cydnabod within the Assembly and who is interested in y gwaith rhagorol a wnaed gan yr Aelod sydd this LHB, which is within his own region— yn y grŵp lluoedd arfog yn y Cynulliad ac individuals are assessed within seven days sydd â diddordeb yn y Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol and they start therapy the following week if hwn, sydd yn ei ranbarth ef—asesir unigolion that is required. In Cardiff and Vale o fewn saith diwrnod ac maent yn dechrau University Local Health Board, assessment therapi yr wythnos ganlynol os oes angen. takes place within two weeks and therapy Ym Mwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Caerdydd starts within six months, if indicated as a‘r Fro, asesir o fewn pythefnos ac mae‘r necessary. There are many access points therapi yn dechrau o fewn chwe mis, os nodir across the health boards and that compares bod angen hynny. Mae sawl pwynt mynediad favourably to other facilities that are offered ar draws y byrddau iechyd ac mae hynny‘n across the UK. cymharu‘n ffafriol â chyfleusterau eraill a gynigir ledled y DU.

Almost 400 veterans were referred to the Atgyfeiriwyd bron i 400 o gyn-filwyr at y service between April 2010 and March 2012. gwasanaeth rhwng Ebrill 2010 a Mawrth It is important to recognise that the service 2012. Mae‘n bwysig cydnabod na ddaeth y only became fully operational across Wales gwasanaeth yn gwbl weithredol ledled in the last year. Even so, the service has Cymru tan y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Er hynny, already established good links with veteran mae‘r gwasanaeth eisoes wedi creu charities that many Members have raised cysylltiadau da ag elusennau cyn-filwyr y with me today, such as Combat Stress and mae llawer o‘r Aelodau wedi eu codi gyda mi other veteran agencies in Wales. The service heddiw, megis Combat Stress ac asiantaethau has developed a common pathway to which cyn-filwyr eraill yng Nghymru. Mae‘r the main veteran charities and agencies have gwasanaeth wedi datblygu llwybr cyffredin y signed up. This recognises the role of the mae‘r prif elusennau ac asiantaethau cyn- third sector in providing support to veterans filwyr wedi ymrwymo iddo. Mae hyn yn and establishing the services as the cydnabod rôl y trydydd sector o ran darparu gatekeeper, central to the assessment and cymorth i gyn-filwyr a sefydlu‘r management of veterans with mental health gwasanaethau fel y porthgeidwad, yn ganolog problems. i‘r gwaith o asesu a rheoli cyn-filwyr sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl.

Andrew R.T. Davies: You talk about access Andrew R.T. Davies: Rydych yn sôn am to services and I do not doubt that there have fynediad at wasanaethau ac nid wyf yn amau been improvements and I welcome your na fu gwelliannau a chroesawaf eich acknowledgement that local government is cydnabyddiaeth bod llywodraeth leol yn signing up to the covenants. However, there ymrwymo i‘r cyfamodau. Fodd bynnag, is an issue, as identified by the all-Wales cyfyd problem, fel y nodwyd gan wasanaeth mental health service that it takes 119 days iechyd meddwl Cymru gyfan sef ei bod yn from referral to assessment and 151 days cymryd 119 diwrnod rhwng atgyfeirio ac from assessment to treatment, whereas in asesu a 151 diwrnod rhwng asesu a England that figure is a 22-day wait. Do you thriniaeth, ond yn Lloegr 22 diwrnod y mae‘n recognise that that is an issue and that it is rhaid aros. A ydych yn cydnabod bod something that the Government needs to hynny‘n broblem a‘i fod yn rhywbeth y mae focus on when working with partners in the angen i‘r Llywodraeth ganolbwyntio arno health service? wrth weithio gyda phartneriaid yn y gwasanaeth iechyd?

Carl Sargeant: Of course, as has been Carl Sargeant: Wrth gwrs, fel sydd wedi ei acknowledged by many within the Chamber gydnabod gan lawer yn y Siambr heddiw. today. I also acknowledge that there is ever- Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod bod galwadau increasing demand on the service and bythol-gynyddol ar y gwasanaeth ac

79 07/11/2012 because of current and past conflicts, there oherwydd rhyfeloedd ar hyn o bryd ac yn y will be higher demand. We have to make sure gorffennol, bydd mwy o alwadau. Mae‘n that there is a streamlined approach to access rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr bod dull symlach o to services. gael mynediad at wasanaethau.

Part of the issue, which I know that Members Rhan o‘r broblem, a godwyd gan Aelodau mi have raised, is the recognition of former wn, yw adnabod cyn-aelodau o‘r lluoedd service personnel who may be suffering from arfog a all fod yn dioddef anhwylder straen PTSD, so that when they present through the wedi trawma, fel y cânt eu hadnabod fel cyn- voluntary sector or NHS services, they are filwyr pan gyflwynant eu hunain i‘r sector recognised as veterans. The Member raised gwirfoddol neu wasanaethau‘r GIG. Cododd the all-Wales veterans card. In the last yr Aelod gerdyn y cyn-filwyr i Gymru gyfan. meeting of the ministerial advisory group on Yng nghyfarfod diwethaf grŵp cynghori‘r the armed forces, I asked for this to be taken Gweinidog ar y lluoedd arfog, gofynnais i forward because of the benefits of it. It may hyn gael ei ddatblygu oherwydd ei fanteision. not be exactly what opposition members Efallai na fydd yn union yr hyn y gofynnodd requested during their debate, but I have aelodau‘r gwrthbleidiau amdano yn ystod eu asked the group to consider the opportunities dadl, ond rwyf wedi gofyn i‘r grŵp ystyried y that it would give ex-service personnel in cyfleoedd y byddai‘n eu rhoi i gyn-filwyr yng Wales to present without question and say, Nghymru gyflwyno eu hunain yn ‗We are ex-service personnel and we should ddigwestiwn a dweud, ‗Rydym yn gyn-filwyr either be prioritised or get access to these a dylem naill ai gael ein blaenoriaethu neu services‘. That is something that we will be gael mynediad at y gwasanaethau hyn‘. Mae presenting in the near future. hynny‘n rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei gyflwyno yn y dyfodol agos.

Mohammad Asghar: I am grateful for this Mohammad Asghar: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am debate on the armed forces. I come from an y ddadl hon ar y lluoedd arfog. Rwy‘n dod o air force family and I know exactly how the deulu awyrlu ac yn gwybod yn union sut y armed forces live. The built-in connector for mae‘r lluoedd arfog yn byw. Y cysylltydd the armed forces, whether they are veterans annatod ar gyfer y lluoedd arfog, boed yn or not, is pride, discipline, never surrender gyn-filwyr ai peidio, yw balchder, and never beg. These are some of the disgyblaeth, byth yn ildio a byth yn cardota. characteristics that are built into all armed Dyma rai o‘r nodweddion sy‘n perthyn i bobl forces personnel. When they come out of the yn y lluoedd arfog. Pan fyddant yn gadael y armed forces, whether they are veterans or lluoedd arfog, p‘un a ydynt yn gyn-filwyr neu retired, how can your Government help them wedi ymddeol, sut y gall eich Llywodraeth to bring them into the civic society in which helpu i‘w cyflwyno i‘r gymdeithas ddinesig we live? yr ydym yn byw ynddi?

Carl Sargeant: I have alluded to some of the Carl Sargeant: Rwyf wedi cyfeirio at rai o‘r issues that were taken through the ministerial materion a drafodwyd yng ngrŵp cynghori‘r advisory group with regard to the armed Gweinidog o ran cerdyn y lluoedd arfog i forces veterans card or the potential for that. gyn-filwyr neu‘r potensial ar gyfer hynny. Un One other element of this is the discharge elfen arall o hyn yw‘r broses ryddhau sy‘n process that takes place within the armed digwydd o fewn y lluoedd arfog. Rwyf eisoes forces. I have already had conversations with wedi cael trafodaethau gyda‘r Brigadydd Brigadier Napier from the Welsh army in Napier o fyddin Cymru yn Aberhonddu a‘i Brecon and his colleagues across the Navy gydweithwyr yn y Llynges a‘r lluoedd arfog and armed forces regarding how this process ynghylch sut y bydd y broses hon yn gwella o will get better in supporting Welsh serving ran cefnogi aelodau sy‘n gwasanaethu Cymru personnel and their families upon exiting the a‘u teuluoedd pan fyddant yn gadael teulu‘r armed forces family. lluoedd arfog.

4.15 p.m.

80 07/11/2012

Going back to the issue around the third Gan fynd yn ôl at y mater sy‘n ymwneud â‘r sector, it is important that we ensure that the trydydd sector, mae‘n bwysig ein bod yn charities that are delivering services for sicrhau bod yr elusennau sy‘n darparu personnel deliver the right service. While gwasanaethau ar gyfer aelodau yn darparu‘r they all, I am sure, have good intentions and gwasanaeth iawn. Er eu bod i gyd, mae‘n seek to deliver services for the right reasons, siŵr gennyf, yn llawn bwriadau da ac yn we often see many charities that work outside ceisio darparu gwasanaethau am y rhesymau the NICE guidance and guidelines on service cywir, gwelwn lawer o elusennau yn aml sy‘n delivery, and we have to be very cautious gweithio y tu allan i arweiniad a chanllawiau about ensuring that the service delivered is NICE ar ddarparu gwasanaethau, a rhaid i nni the right service for the person who is fod yn ofalus iawn ynghylch sicrhau mai‘r requesting it and is based around the gwasanaeth a ddarperir yw‘r gwasanaeth evidence. cywir i‘r person sy‘n gofyn amdano a‘i fod yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth.

On the third proposal in the HIW report, the O ran y trydydd cynnig yn adroddiad AGIC, report paints a broadly positive picture of mae‘r adroddiad yn rhoi darlun cadarnhaol ar healthcare provision for the community, y cyfan o‘r ddarpariaeth gofal iechyd ar gyfer although there are things that we could do y gymuned, er bod pethau y gallem eu better, and I acknowledge that. As I said gwneud yn well, ac rwy‘n cydnabod hynny. earlier in relation to the demand for services, Fel y dywedais yn gynharach mewn we must make sure that, wherever we are perthynas â‘r galw am wasanaethau, rhaid placed now, we get better in the future in inni sicrhau, beth bynnag yw ein sefyllfa ar delivering these services. Officials met earlier hyn o bryd, ein bod yn gwella yn y dyfodol o in the week— ran darparu‘r gwasanaethau hyn. Cyfarfu swyddogion yn gynharach yn yr wythnos—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. I Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Rwyf wedi bod have been generous, Minister. Conclude now. yn hael, Weinidog. Rhaid ichi ddod i ben yn awr.

Carl Sargeant: I am very grateful, Deputy Carl Sargeant: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar, Ddirprwy Presiding Officer. I will not be long; I will be Lywydd. Ni fyddaf yn hir; byddaf mor as quick as I can. Officials met earlier this gyflym â phosibl. Cyfarfu swyddogion yn week with the NHS armed forces champions gynharach yr wythnos hon â hyrwyddwyr to discuss the implementation of the lluoedd arfog y GIG i drafod y gwaith o recommendations, and that work is ongoing. weithredu‘r argymhellion, ac mae‘r gwaith hwnnw‘n mynd rhagddo.

I thank Members for their constructive Diolchaf i‘r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau contributions today. We as the Welsh adeiladol heddiw. Byddwn ni, fel Government will of course continue to Llywodraeth Cymru wrth gwrs, yn parhau i support the armed forces and their families gefnogi‘r lluoedd arfog a‘u teuluoedd yma here in Wales. yng Nghymru.

Darren Millar: I will not have time to refer Darren Millar: Ni fydd gennyf amser i to everybody‘s contributions in the four gyfeirio at gyfraniadau pawb yn y pedwar minutes that I have to wrap up this debate, munud sydd gennyf i ddod â‘r ddadl hon i but I want to thank everybody for taking part ben, ond rwyf am ddiolch i bawb am gymryd in what has been a very good debate, with rhan mewn dadl a fu‘n un dda iawn, gyda lots of cross-party agreement on the llawer o gytundeb trawsbleidiol ar y deficiencies in the current provision for our diffygion yn y ddarpariaeth bresennol ar armed forces in Wales, as well as on how we gyfer ein lluoedd arfog yng Nghymru, yn need to move forward to tackle that. It is ogystal â sut y mae angen inni ddatblygu i

81 07/11/2012 appropriate that we have this debate, and we fynd i‘r afael â hwy. Mae‘n briodol ein bod will continue to table such debates annually, yn cael y ddadl hon, a byddwn yn parhau i if the Government does not, so that we can gyflwyno dadleuon o‘r fath yn flynyddol, os keep an eye on progress and ensure that we nad yw‘r Llywodraeth yn gwneud hynny, fel continue to move in the right direction. y gallwn gadw llygad ar gynnydd a sicrhau ein bod yn parhau i symud i‘r cyfeiriad cywir.

I welcome the Minister‘s response. I believe Croesawaf ymateb y Gweinidog. Credaf fod that he has a genuine interest in improving ganddo ddiddordeb gwirioneddol mewn the lot of the armed forces in Wales, and I am gwella ansawdd bywyd y lluoedd arfog yng delighted that he is moving things forward in Nghymru, ac rwyf wrth fy modd ei fod yn terms of the responsibility of public services datblygu pethau o ran cyfrifoldeb in Wales to make sure that that covenant that gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru i we all have with our armed forces family is wneud yn siŵr bod y cyfamod sydd gan bob honoured at every level of government. I pay un ohonom â theulu‘r lluoedd arfog yn cael ei particular tribute to him for doing something gadw ar bob lefel mewn llywodraeth. Hoffwn that not many Labour Ministers do, and that dalu teyrnged arbennig iddo am wneud is accepting that we in the Welsh rhywbeth nad yw llawer o Weinidogion Conservatives had a good idea in the armed Llafur yn ei wneud, sef derbyn bod y syniad a forces card. It is something that we brought gawsom yn y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig o gerdyn to the table that we felt would make a real y lluoedd arfog yn un da. Mae‘n rhywbeth a difference in identifying veterans, whether in gyflwynwyd gennym a fyddai‘n gwneud a GP practice, at a local authority desk when gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol yn ein barn ni o presenting a housing request, or wherever the ran nodi cyn-filwyr, boed mewn practis veteran might be, to flag up that this person is meddyg teulu, wrth ddesg awdurdod lleol a veteran and deserves the appropriate wrth gyflwyno cais am dŷ, neu ble bynnag y treatment. I am grateful for that, Minister, gallai cyn-filwyr fod, i dynnu sylw at y ffaith and I look forward to engaging in further mai cyn-filwr yw‘r unigolyn hwn a‘i fod yn discussions with you about how that might be haeddu‘r driniaeth briodol. Rwy‘n ddiolchgar taken forward in Wales. am hynny, Weinidog, ac edrychaf ymlaen at drafodaethau pellach â chi i weld sut y gellid datblygu hyn yng Nghymru.

However, that does not mean that we can rest Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny‘n golygu y on our laurels. There is still a great deal more gallwn laesu dwylo. Mae llawer iawn mwy to do. Lots of people have made reference to i‘w wneud. Mae llawer o bobl wedi cyfeirio mental health services for veterans with at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl i gyn-filwyr PTSD and we on this side of the Chamber ag anhwylder straen wedi trawma ac rydym absolutely welcome the establishment of the ni ar yr ochr hon o‘r Siambr yn croesawu‘r all-Wales mental health service for veterans gwaith o sefydlu gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl across the country. However, we were very Cymru gyfan i gyn-filwyr ledled y wlad. disappointed at the pace at which it has been Fodd bynnag, roeddem yn siomedig pa mor established. The commitment was given araf y sefydlwyd hyn. Rhoddwyd yr about three years ago and yet it is only just ymrwymiad tua thair blynedd yn ôl ac eto getting off the ground in north Wales. That is newydd ddechrau y mae yn y gogledd. Dyna why the waiting times are very short— pam y mae‘r amseroedd aros yn fyr iawn— because nobody knows it exists. We have to am nad oes neb yn gwybod ei fod yn bodoli. ensure that we do everything we can to Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud popeth promote awareness of that among veterans o fewn ein gallu i hyrwyddo ymwybyddiaeth and their family members, so that people can o hynny ymhlith cyn-filwyr ac aelodau o‘u be referred when appropriate. teulu, fel y gall pobl gael eu hatgyfeirio pan fo hynny‘n briodol.

Reference has also been made to the need for Cyfeiriwyd hefyd at yr angen am ganolfan

82 07/11/2012 a residential centre, and I know that the breswyl, a gwn y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru Welsh Government will be pondering upon yn myfyrio ar hynny. that.

Carl Sargeant: I ran out of time, so I could Carl Sargeant: Daeth fy amser i ben, felly ni not deal with all the detail of the report. In allwn ddelio â holl fanylion yr adroddiad. O terms of a residential care centre, there is ran canolfan gofal preswyl, mae rhywfaint o some work going on with my ministerial waith yn cael ei wneud gyda fy ngrŵp advisory group, the third sector and the cynghori, y trydydd sector a Llywodraeth Welsh Government to look at the provision in Cymru i edrych ar y ddarpariaeth yng Wales and whether there should be further Nghymru ac a ddylid sicrhau darpariaeth provision. There will be an update for bellach. Bydd diweddariad i‘r Aelodau yn y Members in the Chamber. Siambr.

Darren Millar: I am grateful for that, Darren Millar: Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am hynny, because John Skipper‘s report, which was oherwydd cydnabu adroddiad John Skipper, a absolutely excellent in pulling together all of oedd yn wych o ran tynnu ynghyd yr holl the issues, recognised that there was merit in faterion, fod y syniad o ddatblygu canolfan the idea of developing a residential centre. I breswyl yn werth ei ystyried. Credaf fod believe that there are partners out there who partneriaid ar gael sy‘n barod i roi eu dwylo are prepared to put their hands in their yn eu pocedi—sefydliadau megis Help for pockets—organisations such as Help for Heroes ac Alabaré, elusen Gristnogol sydd Heroes and Alabaré, a Christian charity that am sefydlu canolfannau cymorth ledled wants to establish support centres around Cymru. Maent wedi cydnabod eu bod yn Wales. They have acknowledged that they barod i weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i are prepared to work with the Welsh gyflawni‘r pethau hyn. Gadewch inni beidio Government to achieve these things. Let us ag anghofio bod Cymru yn gwneud cyfraniad not forget that Wales makes a larger mwy i‘r lluoedd arfog na‘r DU ar gyfartaledd contribution to the armed forces than the UK o ran ei phoblogaeth. Felly, mae ond yn on average in terms of its population. briodol bod un o‘r cyfleusterau hyn yng Therefore, it is only appropriate that we Nghymru fel y gallwn roi‘r gwasanaethau should have one of these facilities in Wales gorau posibl i‘r bobl hynny sy‘n dioddef o‘r so that we can give the best possible services problemau hyn. to those people who suffer from these problems.

In the time that I have left, I will refer briefly Yn yr amser sydd gennyf ar ôl, cyfeiriaf yn to war memorials and the need to fras at gofebion rhyfel a‘r angen i goffáu commemorate the hundredth anniversary of canmlwyddiant y Rhyfel Mawr. Mae‘n the Great War. It is important to remember bwysig cofio bod hwn yn achlysur sy‘n that this is a commemoration of the event, not coff áu‘r digwyddiad, ac nid yw‘n ddathliad a celebration of it. No-one wants to celebrate ohono. Nid oes neb am ddathlu rhyfel mewn war in any way, but it is important that we unrhyw ffordd, ond mae‘n bwysig ein bod yn remind ourselves of the events that took place atgoffa ein hunain o‘r hyn a ddigwyddodd 100 years ago next year and that we ensure 100 mlynedd yn ôl y flwyddyn nesaf a‘n bod that they can never happen again. I encourage yn sicrhau na all byth ddigwydd eto. Anogaf the Government to move more swiftly to y Llywodraeth i symud yn gyflym i sefydlu establish a national commemoration of the coffadwriaeth genedlaethol o‘r Rhyfel Mawr Great War in our schools and in our yn ein hysgolion ac yn ein cymunedau ledled communities across Wales so that we can Cymru fel y gallwn ddysgu o‘r profiad learn from that experience. Time does not hwnnw. Nid yw amser yn caniatáu imi fynd permit me to go on, but I thank everyone for ymlaen, ond hoffwn ddiolch i bawb am eu their contribution and the Minister for his cyfraniad ac i‘r Gweinidog am ei ymateb generous response. hael.

83 07/11/2012

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw y dylid proposal is to agree the motion without derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes amendment. Does any Member object? I see unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod that there is objection, therefore I defer gwrthwynebiad, felly gohiriaf y pleidleisio ar voting on this item until voting time. yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.

Dadl Plaid Cymru Plaid Cymru Debate

Gwella Ysgolion School Improvement

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Rwyf wedi dethol The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have gwelliannau 1, 3, 6, 7 a 8 yn enw Aled selected amendments 1, 3, 6, 7 and 8 in the Roberts, gwelliannau 2 a 4 yn enw Jane Hutt, name of Aled Roberts, amendments 2 and 4 a gwelliannau 5, 9 a 10 yn enw William in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendments 5, Graham. 9 and 10 in the name of William Graham.

Cynnig NDM5086 Jocelyn Davies Motion NDM5086 Jocelyn Davies

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn nodi bod: 1. Notes that: a) Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dynodi mai a) regional school improvement partnerships partneriaethau gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol have been identified by the Welsh yw’r ateb ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â’r methiant Government as the answer to address the systematig ym myd addysg; systemic failure in education; b) y cynllun bandio ar gyfer ysgolion b) the banding scheme for secondary schools uwchradd wedi dynodi bod angen gwella has identified schools in Bands 4 and 5 as in ysgolion ym Mandiau 4 a 5 ar fyrder; need of urgent improvement;

2. Yn gresynu nad oedd yr holl 2. Regrets that all the regional school bartneriaethau gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol improvement partnerships were not ar waith erbyn mis Medi 2012 fel yr operational by September 2012 as promised; addawyd; a and

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau 3. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure bod: that: a) y consortia addysg rhanbarthol ar waith a) the regional education consortia are fully yn llawn cyn gynted â phosibl; a operational as soon as possible; and b) bod yr ysgolion a roddwyd yn y bandiau is b) the schools placed in lower bands are yn cael y cymorth angenrheidiol ar unwaith i immediately provided with the necessary fynd i’r afael â methiant systematig. support to address systemic failure.

Simon Thomas: I move the motion. Simon Thomas: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

84 07/11/2012

I am grateful for the opportunity to move this Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am y cyfle i gynnig y motion and to open the debate on the role of cynnig hwn ac i agor y ddadl ar rôl consortia regional education consortia in helping our addysg rhanbarthol i helpu ein hysgolion sy‘n underperforming schools in Wales. The tanberfformio yng Nghymru. Diben y ddadl purpose of this debate is to focus on one hon yw canolbwyntio ar un agwedd ar raglen aspect of the Government‘s programme of weithredu‘r Llywodraeth—y cynllun actions—the 20-point action plan that the gweithredu 20 pwynt a amlinellwyd gan y Minister for Education and Skills set out— Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau—sydd â‘r nod o which is designed to close the attainment gap gau‘r bwlch o ran cyrhaeddiad sy‘n with regard to deprivation and poverty and gysylltiedig ag amddifadedd a thlodi a mynd address poor attainment generally in Welsh i‘r afael â chyrhaeddiad gwael yn gyffredinol schools and also to deal with what the yn ysgolion Cymru a hefyd i ymdrin â‘r hyn Minister himself has described as a systemic sydd, yng ngeiriau‘r Gweinidog ei hun, yn failure in the Welsh education system. fethiant systemtig yng nghyfundrefn addysg Cymru.

It was not Plaid Cymru, or indeed any other Nid Plaid Cymru, nac yn wir unrhyw blaid party here, that chose regional consortia as arall yma, a ddewisodd gonsortia rhanbarthol the answer to that systemic failure, but the fel yr ateb i‘r methiant systematig hwnnw, Minister himself. I particularly want to draw ond y Gweinidog ei hun. Rwy‘n awyddus the Chamber‘s attention to a response that the iawn i dynnu sylw‘r Siambr at ymateb a Minister gave to a written question on 28 roddodd y Gweinidog i gwestiwn May this year. He clearly said that he had had ysgrifenedig ar 28 Mai eleni. Dywedodd yn assurances from the 22 local education glir ei fod wedi cael sicrwydd gan y 22 o leaders that education was their No. 1 arweinwyr addysg lleol mai addysg oedd eu priority, that a radical overhaul was needed to prif flaenoriaeth, bod angen newid radical i address the systemic failure in education, and fynd i‘r afael â‘r methiant systematig mewn that the evidence all points to regional addysg, a bod y dystiolaeth i gyd yn partnership working as the answer. That is awgrymu mai gweithio mewn partneriaeth the reason for bringing forward this debate ranbarthol oedd yr ateb. Dyna‘r rheswm dros today, and that is why we cannot support the gyflwyno‘r ddadl hon heddiw, a dyna pam na Government‘s amendments, which muddy allwn gefnogi gwelliannau‘r Llywodraeth, the waters around the answer. If the sy‘n peri dryswch ynghylch yr ateb. Os yw‘r Government, in response to a written Llywodraeth, mewn ymateb i gwestiwn question and in a statement, states that ysgrifenedig ac mewn datganiad, yn datgan regional working is the answer to systemic mai gweithio rhanbarthol yw‘r ateb i fethiant failure, then we should hold the Government systematig, yna dylem ddwyn y Llywodraeth to account on its belief in that regard. i gyfrif am ei chred yn hynny o beth.

Our purpose today is to put on record our Ein pwrpas heddiw yw datgan ar goedd ein belief that regional education consortia need cred bod angen i gonsortia addysg to be up and running as soon as possible to rhanbarthol fod yn weithredol cyn gynted ag help schools improve literacy and numeracy y bo modd er mwyn helpu ysgolion i wella and to cut the gap in attainment relating to llythrennedd a rhifedd a chau‘r bwlch mewn poverty. We do that today not in order to seek cyrhaeddiad sy‘n gysylltiedig â thlodi. to blame local authorities or even to blame Gwnawn hynny heddiw nid er mwyn ceisio the Government, but simply to draw attention rhoi bai ar yr awdurdodau lleol na hyd yn oed to and to express our regret about the fact that ar y Llywodraeth, ond er mwyn tynnu sylw at the system is not yet up and running fully, y ffaith nad yw‘r system yn gwbl weithredol and to draw the Government‘s attention to eto a gresynu at hynny, a thynnu sylw‘r the need to take action as soon as possible. Llywodraeth at yr angen i gymryd camau cyn The evidence that we are gathering on the gynted ag y bo modd. Mae‘r dystiolaeth yr ground suggests that the various consortia are ydym yn ei chasglu ar lawr gwlad yn either not formally constituted—that is awgrymu nad yw‘r gwahanol gonsortia

85 07/11/2012 certainly true in one case—or not fully wedi‘u sefydlu‘n ffurfiol—mae hynny‘n sicr functioning as yet. The evidence also yn wir yn un achos—neu nad ydynt yn gwbl suggests that the consortia have been weithredol eto. Awgryma‘r dystiolaeth hefyd struggling to get their work done and to set fod y consortia wedi cael anhawster i up in the timetable set by the Government, gwblhau eu gwaith ac ymsefydlu yn unol â‘r particularly in relation to some of the changes amserlen a osodwyd gan y Llywodraeth, yn that have happened along the way, for enwedig o ran rhai o‘r newidiadau sydd wedi example asking the consortia and school digwydd ar hyd y ffordd, er enghraifft, gofyn performance consortia to look at schools in i‘r consortia a‘r consortia perfformiad ysgol bands 2 and 3, as well as the so-called failing edrych ar ysgolion ym mandiau 2 a 3, yn schools in bands 4 and 5. ogystal â‘r ysgolion sy‘n methu, fel y‘u gelwir, ym mandiau 4 a 5.

For us in the Chamber, a few weeks here or I ni yn y Siambr, nid yw oedi o ychydig three or six months there perhaps do not wythnosau fan hyn neu dri i chwe mis fan make a great deal of difference, but, to a draw yn gwneud rhyw lawer o wahaniaeth, pupil, six months of failing to get the right ond, i ddisgybl, chwe mis o fethu â chael y support in school is the difference between cymorth cywir yn yr ysgol yw‘r gwahaniaeth succeeding or failing at the different key rhwng llwyddo neu fethu yn y gwahanol stages. That is why we want to see a focus on gyfnodau allweddol. Dyna pam yr ydym am immediate action today. It is all well and weld ffocws ar weithredu ar unwaith heddiw. good to say that these things are bureaucratic Mae‘n ddigon hawdd dweud bod y pethau and take time to set up, but this has been hyn yn fiwrocrataidd ac yn cymryd amser i‘w described by the Government itself as the sefydlu, ond mae hyn wedi cael ei ddisgrifio answer to poor attainment. Every week that gan y Llywodraeth ei hun fel yr ateb i goes past means that we are failing pupils in gyrhaeddiad gwael. Mae pob wythnos sy‘n some of our worst performing schools, and mynd heibio yn golygu ein bod yn siomi we need to address that. disgyblion mewn rhai o‘n hysgolion sy‘n perfformio waethaf, ac mae angen inni fynd i‘r afael â hynny.

The Minister in the now well-known speech Dywedodd y Gweinidog yn ei araith that he made about 18 months ago, when he adnabyddus erbyn hyn tua 18 mis yn ôl, pan set out his 20-point action plan, said that he amlinellodd ei gynllun gweithredu 20 pwynt, not only expected local authorities to ei fod nid yn unig yn disgwyl i awdurdodau participate in consortia arrangements but that lleol gymryd rhan mewn trefniadau consortia, they would suffer financial penalties, ond y byddent yn cael eu cosbi‘n ariannol, including the withdrawal of better schools gan gynnwys tynnu‘n ôl arian ysgolion gwell, funding, if they did not do that. Therefore, os nad oeddent yn gwneud hynny. Felly, un one purpose of the debate today is to drill diben i‘r ddadl heddiw yw darganfod a yw‘r down to see whether the Minister still intends Gweinidog yn bwriadu defnyddio‘r cosbau to use those financial penalties, given the ariannol hynny o hyd, o ystyried y sefyllfa current situation, and, in particular, to see bresennol, ac, yn benodol, gweld sut y mae‘r how the Minister intends to deliver Gweinidog yn bwriadu sicrhau gwelliant yn improvement in the poorer performing yr ysgolion sy‘n perfformio waethaf, os yw, schools, if, in effect, he is cutting off their mewn gwirionedd, yn torri eu trwyn i sbeitio nose to spite their face. I hope that he will say eu hwyneb. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn dweud something about his intentions in that regard. rhywbeth am ei fwriadau yn hynny o beth.

We also know that the Minister said very Gwyddom hefyd i‘r Gweinidog ddweud yn clearly that, by this September, as well as the glir iawn, erbyn y mis Medi hwn, yn ogystal consortia being in place, he wanted to see â sefydlu‘r consortia, ei fod am weld bod that schools had 80% of local education 80% o gyllid addysg lleol yn cael ei funding delegated to them. That was also ddirprwyo i‘r ysgolion. Dylai hynny hefyd supposed to happen by this September. fod wedi digwydd erbyn y mis Medi hwn.

86 07/11/2012

Therefore, this debate is also an opportunity Felly, mae‘r ddadl hon hefyd yn gyfle i ofyn to ask the Minister as to whether he is i‘r Gweinidog a yw‘n fodlon bod hynny wedi satisfied that that has been achieved, because, cael ei gyflawni, oherwydd, a siarad yn blaen, to be frank, we do not have evidence one way nid oes gennym dystiolaeth y naill ffordd na‘r or the other. llall.

The Government has made it very clear that Mae‘r Llywodraeth wedi‘i gwneud yn glir schools in bands 4 and 5 will receive an extra iawn y bydd ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5 yn £10,000. That is about £16.58 for each child. cael £10,000 ychwanegol, sef tua £16.58 It is a small sum of money, but I am sure that fesul plentyn. Mae‘n swm bach o arian, ond the schools will not reject it. However, once rwy‘n siŵr na fydd yr ysgolion yn ei wrthod. again, this was linked to a clear action plan Fodd bynnag, unwaith eto, mae hyn yn with improvement targets, linked into the gysylltiedig â chynllun gweithredu clir gyda local consortia. If the consortia are not yet thargedau gwella, sy‘n gysylltiedig â‘r fully functioning, how can we see clear consortia lleol. Os nad yw‘r consortia yn action plans for improving schools in bands 4 gwbl weithredol eto, sut y gallwn weld and 5, and has that money been released to cynlluniau gweithredu clir ar gyfer gwella those schools, despite the consortia not ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5, ac a yw‘r arian necessarily being fully in place? I hope that hwnnw wedi cael ei ryddhau i‘r ysgolion the Minister will be able to say something hynny, er nad yw‘r consortia o reidrwydd ar about that. waith yn llawn? Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn gallu dweud rhywbeth am hynny.

That links to the pupil deprivation grant, and Mae hynny‘n cysylltu â‘r grant amddifadedd we will be able to support at least one of the disgyblion, a byddwn yn gallu cefnogi o leiaf amendments from the Liberal Democrats, un o‘r gwelliannau gan y Democratiaid although we will be leaving the one about Rhyddfrydol, er y byddwn yn gadael yr un budget negotiations to them and the Labour am drafodaethau cyllidebol iddynt hwy ac i‘r Party to sort out. Blaid Lafur i‘w datrys.

There is no doubt that the setting up of the Nid oes amheuaeth nad yw‘r broses o consortia has been somewhat fraught with sefydlu‘r consortia wedi bod braidd yn difficulty. We were promised that it would anodd. Cawsom addewid y byddai‘n digwydd happen by September on several occasions by erbyn mis Medi ar sawl achlysur gan y the Minister. However, some Members will Gweinidog. Fodd bynnag, bydd rhai Aelodau know that the Times Educational Supplement yn gwybod i‘r Times Educational Supplement on 26 October pointed out that the consortia nodi ar 26 Hydref bod y consortia wedi bod had been having difficulty in appointing yn cael anhawster i benodi arweinwyr systems leaders, a leadership programme that systemau, rhaglen arweinyddiaeth sydd wedi has been identified by the Minister himself as cael ei nodi gan y Gweinidog ei hun fel being essential for driving school rhywbeth hanfodol i hyrwyddo gwelliant improvement in Wales. One official mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru. Dywedodd un involved, Bryan Jeffreys, the interim director swyddog sydd ynghlwm wrth y broses, Bryan of the Central South Consortium Joint Jeffreys, cyfarwyddwr dros dro Consortiwm Education Service, said that the consortium Canolbarth y De Gwasanaeth Addysg ar y advertised, but did not get enough suitable Cyd, fod y consortiwm wedi hysbysebu, ond candidates and so had to re-advertise. In nad oedd wedi cael digon o ymgeiswyr response, Anna Brychan, of the National addas, ac felly bod yn rhaid iddo Association of Headteachers, said: ailhysbysebu. Mewn ymateb, dywedodd Anna Brychan, o Gymdeithas Genedlaethol y Prifathrawon:

‗There is a fair measure of agreement that Mae cryn gytundeb mai dyma‘r model sydd this is the model we need, but we are worried ei angen arnom, ond rydym yn poeni am faint

87 07/11/2012 about the amount of time it seems to be o amser y mae‘n ei gymryd i gyrraedd yno yn taking to get there.‘ ôl pob golwg.‘

I suppose that the point of the debate today is Mae‘n debyg mai diben y ddadl heddiw yw to try to get the Minister to realise that it is a ceisio cael y Gweinidog i sylweddoli ei fod matter of urgency not to let the consortia yn fater o frys inni beidio â gadael i‘r become another level of bureaucracy and consortia ddod yn lefel arall o fiwrocratiaeth organisation that we have to go through, and a threfniadaeth y mae‘n rhaid inni ymdopi â not to lose focus on the need to drive hi, a pheidio â cholli golwg ar yr angen i improvements in literacy and numeracy and hyrwyddo gwelliannau mewn llythrennedd a to close the poverty gap. If the consortia are rhifedd a chau‘r bwlch tlodi. Os nad yw‘r not up and working, there are things that the consortia yn weithredol, mae pethau y gall y Government can do now, including Llywodraeth ei wneud yn awr, gan gynnwys delivering those sums of money directly to rhoi‘r symiau hynny o arian yn uniongyrchol schools, which I hope that he will consider. i ysgolion, y gobeithiaf y bydd yn ystyried ei wneud.

The whole programme is linked to a series of Mae‘r rhaglen gyfan yn gysylltiedig â chyfres banding issues that Plaid Cymru, certainly, o faterion bandio nad yw Plaid Cymru, yn does not agree with, and I think that some of sicr, yn cytuno â hwy, a chredaf y bydd rhai my colleagues may say a little more about o‘m cyd-Aelodau yn dweud ychydig mwy am that. However, we agree with the hynny. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn cytuno â‘r Government in its central purpose, in that we Llywodraeth o ran ei diben canolog, yn yr need to see school improvement policies for ystyr bod angen inni weld polisïau gwella the whole of education for children in Wales ysgolion ar gyfer addysg gyfan plant yng and that social deprivation is the main Nghymru ac mai amddifadedd cymdeithasol obstacle to that. We have seen the poverty yw‘r prif rwystr i hynny. Rydym wedi gweld gap grow in Wales. It was 32% in 2007 and y bwlch tlodi yn tyfu yng Nghymru. Cafwyd 35% in 2010. We all agree that we need to bwlch o 32% yn 2007 a 35% yn 2010. bear down and be more closely focused on Rydym i gyd yn cytuno bod angen inni this. ganolbwyntio‘n fanylach ar hyn.

One of my concerns is that we have perhaps Un o‘m pryderon yw ein bod o bosibl wedi lost sight of families and family support in colli golwg ar deuluoedd a chymorth teuluol addressing the poverty gap and the attainment wrth fynd i‘r afael â‘r bwlch tlodi a‘r bwlch o gap in schools. Looking at reports such as ran cyrhaeddiad mewn ysgolion. Gan edrych Save the Children‘s ‗Communities, Families ar adroddiadau fel ‗Communities, Families and Schools Together‘ and Estyn‘s ‗Tackling and Schools Together‘ gan Achub y Plant a poverty and disadvantage in schools: working ‗Mynd i‘r afael ag anfantais mewn ysgolion: with the community and other services‘, we cydweithio â‘r gymuned a gwasanaethau see support for the model of regional eraill‘ gan Estyn, gwelwn gefnogaeth i fodel consortia, but also clear evidence that y consortia rhanbarthol, ond tystiolaeth glir working with parents and helping parents to hefyd bod gweithio gyda rhieni a helpu rhieni work with children, giving parents the skills i weithio gyda phlant, gan ddysgu‘r sgiliau i they might not have had from their own rieni na fyddent wedi‘u dysgu o bosibl yn eu education in order to improve children‘s haddysg eu hunain er mwyn gwella literacy and numeracy, makes a significant llythrennedd a rhifedd plant, yn gwneud difference. For example, the Save the gwahaniaeth sylweddol. Er enghraifft, mae Children‘s Families and Schools Together rhaglen Teuluoedd ac Ysgolion Gyda‘i programme has reported a 10% improvement Gilydd Achub y Plant wedi nodi gwelliant o in children‘s reading, writing and maths after 10% yn sgiliau darllen, ysgrifennu a completing that programme. That is a mathemateg plant ar ôl cwblhau‘r rhaglen programme that has been piloted in some honno. Mae honno‘n rhaglen sydd wedi cael parts of Wales. ei threialu mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru.

88 07/11/2012

Therefore, although we accept the principle Felly, er ein bod yn derbyn egwyddor of regional consortia, we think that a focus consortia rhanbarthol, credwn fod ffocws has been lost on the need to work more wedi cael ei golli ar yr angen i weithio‘n closely and directly with families through agosach ac yn fwy uniongyrchol gyda family support and with some third sector theuluoedd drwy gymorth teuluol a chyda organisations as well. In other words, there is rhai sefydliadau yn y trydydd sector hefyd. a danger that the consortia themselves will Mewn geiriau eraill, mae perygl mai become the objective, and the objective must sefydlu‘r consortia eu hunain fydd y nod yn y be to deliver improvements in standards of pen draw, a rhaid sicrhau mai gwella safonau numeracy and literacy in all schools in rhifedd a llythrennedd ym mhob ysgol yng Wales, but certainly focusing and starting in Nghymru yw‘r nod, ond yn sicr canolbwyntio those schools that are not delivering. a dechrau yn yr ysgolion hynny nad ydynt yn cyflawni.

That is the purpose of the debate today. We Dyna ddiben y ddadl heddiw. Roeddem yn thought, hopefully not in any sort of meddwl wrth dynnu sylw at hyn, nid mewn adversarial way, that in bringing forward a unrhyw ffordd wrthwynebus gobeithio, ac focus on this and in examining one aspect of ystyried un agwedd ar bolisi‘r Llywodraeth a the Government‘s policy and showing how dangos ym mha ffordd nad oedd yn gwbl that was not yet working fully and properly, weithredol eto, y gallem o bosibl sicrhau bod we might be able to ensure that the y Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno‘r systemau Government was delivering the support cymorth sydd eu hangen yn uniongyrchol i mechanisms needed directly to schools, if ysgolion, os oes angen. Mae‘r consortia eu necessary. The consortia themselves show a hunain yn dangos ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer way forward for partnership working, and gweithio mewn partneriaeth, ac nid oes there is no doubt that partnership working amheuaeth nad yw gweithio mewn improves school outcomes. However, if it has partneriaeth yn gwella deilliannau ysgol. become about the bureaucracy, there is no Fodd bynnag, os yw wedi dod yn rhywbeth doubt that it can also become a hindrance in biwrocrataidd, nid oes amheuaeth na all itself. hefyd fod yn rhwystr ynddo‘i hun.

4.30 p.m.

Gwelliant 1—Aled Roberts Amendment 1—Aled Roberts

Cynnwys pwynt 1 newydd ac ail-rifo yn unol Insert as new point 1 and renumber â hynny: accordingly:

Yn nodi’r gwaith pwysig y mae penaethiaid, Notes the important work that head teachers, athrawon a llywodraethwyr yn ei wneud o teachers and governors carry out on a day to ddydd i ddydd i sicrhau’r addysg orau bosibl day basis to secure the best possible i’n plant. education for our children.

Gwelliant 3—Aled Roberts Amendment 3—Aled Roberts

Ym mhwynt 1b, dileu popeth ar ôl ‘ysgolion In point 1b delete all after ‘secondary uwchradd,’ a rhoi’r canlynol yn ei le: schools’ and replace with: yn ddiffygiol iawn, ac nad oes gan athrawon, is seriously flawed and does not enjoy the rhieni na disgyblion hyder ynddo. confidence of teachers, parents or pupils.

Gwelliant 6—Aled Roberts Amendment 6—Aled Roberts

Ym mhwynt 3a, dileu popeth ar ôl In point 3a delete all after ‘are’ and replace ‘rhanbarthol,’ a rhoi’r canlynol yn ei le: with:

89 07/11/2012

yn cynnwys ymgeiswyr o’r safon uchaf bosibl populated with the highest possible quality of ac yn gwbl weithredol cyn gynted â phosibl candidate and fully operational as soon as ac, os nad yw hyn yn bosibl yn y chwe mis possible, and if this is not possible in the next nesaf, bod rôl y consortia addysg six months, to review the role of regional rhanbarthol yn nyfodol system addysg Cymru education consortia in the future of the Welsh yn cael ei hadolygu. education system.

Gwelliant 7—Aled Roberts Amendment 7—Aled Roberts

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add as new point at end of motion: cynnig:

Yn nodi sut y gallai gweithredu’r Grant Notes the beneficial impact that the Amddifadedd Disgyblion yn llwyddiannus successful implementation of the Pupil gael effaith fuddiol ar gyrhaeddiad mewn Deprivation Grant could have on attainment ysgolion. in schools.

Gwelliant 8—Aled Roberts Amendment 8—Aled Roberts

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add as a new point at the end of motion: cynnig:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio Calls on the Welsh Government to work with gydag ysgolion, athrawon a phartneriaethau schools, teachers and school improvement gwella ysgolion i sicrhau bod y Grant partnerships to ensure the optimum use of the Amddifadedd Disgyblion yn cael ei Pupil Deprivation Grant to ensure that every ddefnyddio yn y modd gorau posibl, er mwyn child can achieve their potential. sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn gallu cyflawni ei botensial.

Aled Roberts: Cynigiaf gwelliannau 1, 3, 6, Aled Roberts: I move amendments 1, 3, 6, 7 7 ac 8 yn fy enw i ac ar ran Democratiaid and 8 in my name and on behalf of the Welsh Rhyddfrydol Cymru. Liberal Democrats.

Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno‘r cynnig I thank Plaid Cymru for tabling this motion hwn i‘r Siambr y prynhawn yma. Credaf ei for debate in the Chamber this afternoon. I bod yn adlewyrchu‘r pryder sydd o ran y believe that it is a reflection of the concern cynnydd. Yr ydym i gyd, fel y dywedodd that exists about the way forward. As Simon Simon Thomas, yn cefnogi ymdrechion y Thomas said, we all support the Llywodraeth i wella safonau, ond credaf fod Government‘s efforts to raise standards, but pryder ein bod yn syrthio y tu ôl o ran yr there is a concern that we are falling behind amserlen a bennwyd gan y Gweinidog. on the schedule set by the Minister.

Er ein bod yn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni wella While we agree that we need to raise safonau, mae hefyd yn ddyletswydd arnom standards, it is also incumbent upon us as fel Aelodau Cynulliad i sicrhau bod y Assembly Members to ensure that the Llywodraeth yn gweithredu yn ôl y rhaglen Government operates according to the benodol y mae wedi‘i dewis i godi‘r safonau specific programme that it has chosen as the hynny. Rydym wedi clywed ar sawl achlysur vehicle to raise those standards. We have yn y Siambr ac yn y pwyllgorau am y bwlch heard on several occasions in the Chamber gweithredu o ran gwaith y Llywodraeth. Mae and in committees about the implementation gwir oedi o ran gweithredu ar ran y consortia. gap on the part of the Government. There has Fel y dywedodd Simon Thomas, credaf mai‘r been genuine delay in taking action on the bwriad gwreiddiol oedd y byddai‘r consortia consortia. As Simon Thomas said, I think that

90 07/11/2012 yn weithredol erbyn mis Medi 2011; rwyf the original intention was for the consortia to wedi gweld cynlluniau gan y consortia, a be operational by September 2011; I have dderbyniwyd gan y Llywodraeth, sy‘n dangos seen plans from the consortia, which were eu bod yn credu y bydd llawer iawn o‘u agreed by the Government, which show that hymdrechion yn weithredol o fis Mawrth they believed that many of their initiatives ymlaen. Felly, mae‘n anodd gwybod yn would be implemented from March. union lle ydym o ran y cynlluniau hyn. Therefore, it is hard to know exactly were we stand with those plans.

Bu i Simon Thomas grybwyll erthygl o The Simon Thomas mentioned an article in The Times Educational Supplement sy‘n dweud Times Educational Supplement that says that bod digon o dystiolaeth erbyn hyn fod there is ample evidence now of gaps with bylchau yn y swyddi yn y consortia a bod vacancies in the consortia and that that hynny‘n creu problemau i wasanaethau creates problems for local government llywodraeth leol. Y cwestiwn yw os nad oes services. The question is, if there are not digon o bobl yn fodlon neu yn gallu llenwi‘r enough people willing or able to fill those rolau hyn, sut y gall y Cynulliad fod yn sicr roles, how can the Assembly be assured that bod y gyfundrefn addysg yn symud ymlaen the education system is moving forward in yn ôl bwriad y Gweinidog. Eto, rydym eisoes accordance with the Minister‘s wishes. wedi clywed bod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn Again, we have already heard that the bod methiant systematig o fewn y Minister accepts that there is a systematic gwasanaeth addysg yng Nghymru ar hyn o failure within the education service in Wales bryd. Mae‘n destun pryder, felly, nad oes at the moment. It is a cause for concern, digon o ymgeiswyr addas, er ein bod yn therefore, that there are not enough suitable gwybod bod gennym arbenigedd yn y maes candidates, although we know that we have hwn yng Nghymru. the expertise in this area here in Wales.

As Simon Thomas has already mentioned, Fel y soniodd Simon Thomas eisoes, un rhan part of the Government‘s policy on banding o bolisi‘r Llywodraeth ar fandio ysgolion for secondary schools was that the consortia uwchradd oedd y byddai‘r consortia yn would facilitate addressing the problems of hwyluso‘r gwaith o fynd i‘r afael â underachievement in the schools. In view of phroblemau tangyflawni yn yr ysgolion. Yn the delay in the consortia, we need to wyneb yr oedi cyn sefydlu‘r consortia, mae understand from the Minister this afternoon angen inni gael gwybod gan y Gweinidog y what action is being taken to support those prynhawn yma pa gamau sy‘n cael eu schools, as has already been mentioned. At cymryd i gefnogi‘r ysgolion hynny, fel y the time, the Minister also announced the crybwyllwyd eisoes. Ar y pryd, cyhoeddodd formation of a practitioners‘ panel, which y Gweinidog hefyd y câi panel o ymarferwyr would advise him on good practice and other ei ffurfio, a fyddai‘n ei gynghori ar arfer da a ways forward as far as raising attainment is ffyrdd eraill ymlaen o ran gwella concerned. It is disappointing that, as far as I cyrhaeddiad. Mae‘n siomedig, hyd y gwelaf, can see, there is no record available publicly nad oes cofnod ar gael i‘r cyhoedd o‘r gwaith of the work that the panel has carried out to y mae‘r panel wedi‘i wneud hyd yn hyn, nac date, or any details of its meetings. unrhyw fanylion am ei gyfarfodydd.

Additionally, as I have already stated, the Yn ogystal â hynny, fel y dywedais eisoes, four plans submitted by the regional consortia fe‘i gwnaed yn glir yn y pedwar cynllun a in support of their own bids for finance made gyflwynwyd gan y consortia rhanbarthol i it clear that they felt that system leaders ategu eu ceisiadau eu hunain am gyllid eu would be in place by October 2011, with bod yn teimlo y byddai arweinwyr system ar follow-up in March this year. Clearly, that waith erbyn mis Hydref 2011, gyda gwaith has not happened. Therefore, we need to dilynol ym mis Mawrth eleni. Yn amlwg, nid know what action has been taken by the yw hynny wedi digwydd. Felly, mae angen Minister and his department to ensure that inni gael gwybod pa gamau a gymerwyd gan work is under way. y Gweinidog a‘i adran i sicrhau bod gwaith

91 07/11/2012

yn mynd rhagddo.

In view of the numerous questions O ystyried y cwestiynau lu ynghylch y surrounding the current situation, we support sefyllfa bresennol, rydym yn cefnogi amendment 5 tabled by the Conservatives. I gwelliant 5 a gyflwynwyd gan y ask the Minister to reassure us and tell us Ceidwadwyr. Gofynnaf i‘r Gweinidog roi when he believes the consortia will be fully sicrwydd inni a dweud wrthym pryd y bydd y functional. For example, I understand that the consortia yn gwbl weithredol yn ei farn ef. Er north Wales consortium now states that it enghraifft, caf ar ddeall bod consortiwm y will not be functional until April of next year. gogledd bellach wedi nodi na fydd yn What discussions have taken place with the weithredol tan fis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf. Pa lead directors of each consortium in the run- drafodaethau sydd wedi digwydd gyda up to the recruitment campaign, and when chyfarwyddwyr arweiniol pob consortiwm yn was it realised that there were real issues as y cyfnod hyd at yr ymgyrch recriwtio, a far as recruitment was concerned? phryd y sylweddolwyd bod problemau gwirioneddol o ran recriwtio?

It will come as no surprise from my Yn dilyn fy sylwadau ni fydd yn syndod ichi comments to hear that we will not be glywed na fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 4 gan supporting amendment 4 from the y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn Government. However, we support cefnogi gwelliannau 9 a 10. Fel y byddai amendments 9 and 10. As Simon Thomas Simon Thomas yn ei ddisgwyl gennyf, would expect of me, I take this opportunity to hoffwn achub ar y cyfle hwn i groesawu welcome the potential benefits of the pupil manteision posibl y grant amddifadedd deprivation grant, because if it works disgyblion, oherwydd os bydd yn gweithio‘n successfully it can raise achievement and llwyddiannus gall godi lefelau cyflawniad a attainment levels in schools in Wales. Our chyrhaeddiad mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru. amendment 8 calls on the Welsh Government Mae ein gwelliant 8 yn galw ar Lywodraeth to work with the teaching profession in this Cymru i weithio gyda‘r proffesiwn addysgu regard. yn hyn o beth.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch, The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. os gwelwch yn dda. Please conclude.

Aled Roberts: There must be confidence Aled Roberts: Rhaid bod hyder o fewn y within the sector that the Government can sector y gall y Llywodraeth gadw ei rhan hi keep its side of the bargain and deliver what o‘r fargen a chyflawni‘r hyn a addawyd. Mae has been promised. Uncertainty in an already ansicrwydd mewn sector sydd eisoes yn uneasy sector is a very difficult basis on anesmwyth yn sail anodd iawn dros ddisgwyl which to expect improvements. gwelliannau.

Gwelliant 2—Jane Hutt Amendment 2—Jane Hutt

Yn is-bwynt 1a, ar ôl ‘partneriaethau gwella In sub-point 1a, after ‘regional school ysgolion rhanbarthol’, ychwanegu ‘, ynghyd improvement partnerships’ insert ‘, along â’r diwygiadau addysgol eraill a gefnogir with the other educational reforms supported gan y cynllun gweithredu i wella ysgolion a through the recently launched school lansiwyd yn ddiweddar a chydweithredu improvement implementation plan and wider effeithiol ehangach rhwng gwasanaethau effective collaboration between public cyhoeddus,’ services,’

Gwelliant 4—Jane Hutt Amendment 4—Jane Hutt

Dileu pwynt 2. Delete point 2.

92 07/11/2012

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton The Minister for Education and Skills Andrews): Cynigiaf welliannau 2 a 4 yn enw (Leighton Andrews): I move amendments 2 Jane Hutt. and 4 in the name of Jane Hutt.

Gwelliant 5—William Graham Amendment 5—William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt 3 newydd ac ailrifo yn Add as new point 3 and re-number unol â hynny: accordingly:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i egluro pam Calls on the Welsh Government to explain y methwyd â rhoi partneriaethau gwella why the deadline for the implementation of ysgolion rhanbarthol ar waith cyn y dyddiad regional school improvement partnerships a bennwyd. was missed.

Gwelliant 9—William Graham Amendment 9—William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add as new point at end of motion: cynnig:

Yn gresynu bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi Regrets that the Welsh Government has failed methu â gweithredu pecyn cymorth helaeth a to implement an extensive and differentiated gwahaniaethol ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd support package for secondary schools in ym Mandiau 4 a 5 y mae angen eu gwella ar Bands 4 and 5 in need of urgent frys. improvement.

Gwelliant 10—William Graham Amendment 10—William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add as new point at end of motion: cynnig:

Yn nodi nad yw 96.5% o benaethiaid Notes that 96.5 per cent of head teachers in ysgolion cynradd yng Nghymru yn credu y Welsh primary schools do not believe school bydd cynigion ar gyfer bandio ysgolion o banding proposals will benefit their school, fudd i’w hysgol, ac yn credu y gallai diffyg and believes that such a lack of support from cefnogaeth o’r fath gan y sector i un o the sector for a key Welsh Government policy bolisïau allweddol Llywodraeth Cymru gael could impact negatively on any school effaith negyddol ar unrhyw agenda i wella improvement agenda. ysgolion.

Angela Burns: I move amendments 5, 9 and Angela Burns: Cynigiaf welliannau 5, 9 a 10 10 in the name of William Graham. yn enw William Graham.

I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing forward this Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno‘r ddadl important debate, because it brings a fresh bwysig hon, oherwydd mae‘n rhoi ffocws focus on a topic that has been discussed many newydd ar bwnc sydd wedi cael ei drafod times in the Chamber. I want to start at the lawer gwaith yn y Siambr. Rwyf am very beginning, with the first part your ddechrau ar y dechrau, gyda‘r rhan gyntaf motion, which states that, o‘ch cynnig, sy‘n datgan bod,

‗regional school improvement partnerships ‗partneriaethau gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol have been identified by the Welsh wedi cael eu nodi gan Lywodraeth Cymru fel Government as the answer to address the yr ateb i fynd i‘r afael â‘r methiant systematig systemic failure in education‘. mewn addysg‘.

93 07/11/2012

It is important to reinforce the comments that Mae‘n bwysig ategu‘r sylwadau a wnaethoch. you made. A delay of some six months Nid yw oedi o ryw chwe mis oherwydd because of protocol, process or bureaucracy protocol, proses neu fiwrocratiaeth yn does not seem much to a group of people of ymddangos yn rhywbeth difrifol i grŵp o our age and in our place, but if you are a bobl o‘n hoedran ni ac yn ein sefyllfa ni, ond child, it makes all the difference in the world. os ydych yn blentyn, mae‘n gwneud byd o To remind ourselves about that systemic wahaniaeth. I atgoffa ein hunain am y failure, we are talking about 40% of our methiant systematig, rydym yn sôn am 40% pupils starting secondary school with a o‘n disgyblion sy‘n dechrau‘r ysgol reading age at least six months behind what it uwchradd ag oedran darllen o leiaf chwe mis should be; about being well behind other UK y tu ôl i‘r hyn y dylai fod; am fod ymhell y tu nations in the Programme for International ôl i wledydd eraill y DU yng nghanlyniadau‘r Student Assessment results; about there being Rhaglen Ryngwladol Asesu Myfyrwyr; am a decline in our exam performance; and about ddirywiad yn ein perfformiad mewn our education budgets not being used arholiadau, ac am fethiant i ddefnyddio ein effectively. cyllidebau addysg yn effeithiol.

Although the Welsh Conservatives have Er bod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi cefnogi supported the Government drive through the ymgyrch y Llywodraeth drwy‘r adolygiad o front-line resources review to shift resources adnoddau rheng flaen i drosglwyddo to teaching and learning, it still concerns us adnoddau i addysgu a dysgu, erys yn achos that some 32% of resources seem to be spent pryder inni fod tua 32% o adnoddau yn cael on support costs. While we welcome the eu gwario ar gostau cymorth yn ôl pob focus on literacy and numeracy skills, and, golwg. Er ein bod yn croesawu‘r ffocws ar like Plaid Cymru, believe that closing that sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd, ac, fel Plaid educational gap should be the focus of all our Cymru, yn credu mai ar gau‘r bwlch endeavours, we are very concerned that we addysgol y dylem ganolbwyntio ein holl are still not giving organisations the tools that ymdrechion, rydym yn bryderus iawn nad they need to achieve these objectives. Surely ydym eto yn rhoi‘r cymorth i sefydliadau y this is one of the tools. mae ei angen arnynt i gyflawni‘r amcanion hyn. Onid yw hyn yn rhan o‘r cymorth?

We would like the Welsh Government to Hoffem pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru yn egluro explain why the deadline for implementation pam na weithredwyd o fewn y terfyn amser. was missed. That is the crux of our Dyna graidd ein gwelliant 5. Un o‘n dadleuon amendment 5. One of our biggest contentions mwyaf ynglŷn â‘r Llywodraeth gyfredol hon about this current Government is that it is yw ei bod fel arfer yn wael o ran polisi, ond usually poor on policy, but even when the hyd yn oed pan fo‘r polisi‘n dda, mae‘r policy is good, planning tends to go adrift. gwaith cynllunio yn tueddu i fynd ar We can cite tonnes of examples, starting with gyfeiliorn. Gallwn ddyfynnu llu o the initial implementation of the excellent enghreifftiau, gan ddechrau gyda foundation phase in the third Assembly and gweithredu‘r cyfnod sylfaen ardderchog ar y going all the way through. It is not good cychwyn yn y trydydd Cynulliad a mynd yr enough. We have to be good at planning and holl ffordd ar ôl hynny. Nid yw‘n ddigon da. good on performance, but you are poor on Rhaid inni fod yn dda o ran cynllunio ac yn policy, poor on planning and poor on dda o ran perfformiad, ond rydych yn wael o performance, and I am concerned that this is ran polisi, yn wael o ran cynllunio ac yn wael yet another example of where a policy o ran perfformiad, a phryderaf fod hon yn directive has come together but not been enghraifft arall eto lle y mae cyfarwyddyd carried through, leading to its being a polisi wedi dod at ei gilydd, ond nid yw wedi complete waste of time. cael ei roi ar waith, gan ei droi‘n wastraff amser llwyr.

We totally support the Liberal Democrat Rydym yn llwyr gefnogi gwelliant 3 y amendment 3 that clearly states that banding Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol sy‘n datgan yn

94 07/11/2012 is seriously flawed. People do not believe in glir bod gan y broses fandio ddiffygion banding and do not trust it, and that includes difrifol. Nid yw pobl yn credu mewn bandio parents, teachers and students. Worse still, ac nid ydynt yn ymddiried ynddo, ac mae primary school headteachers are concerned hynny‘n cynnwys rhieni, athrawon a about the banding proposals. Therefore, I will myfyrwyr. Yn waeth fyth, mae penaethiaid mention amendment 10 where we talk about ysgolion cynradd yn pryderu am y cynigion this in great detail, because this reinforces our bandio. Felly, cyfeiriaf at welliant 10 lle amendment about the lack of trust in banding rydym yn sôn am hyn yn fanwl iawn, and why we believe that it needs to be oherwydd mae hyn yn atgyfnerthu ein reviewed. As the Minister knows, we sent out gwelliant ynghylch y diffyg ymddiriedaeth a survey to every primary school in Wales, mewn bandio a pham mae angen ei adolygu and we had more than 35% respond. I am yn ein barn ni. Fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, very happy to share the physical evidence, anfonwyd arolwg i bob ysgol gynradd yng because I know that doubt has been cast on it Nghymru, ac ymatebodd dros 35%. Rwy‘n before. I was horrified that the First Minister, fodlon rhannu‘r dystiolaeth ffisegol, am fy Carwyn Jones, dismissed in the Chamber the mod yn gwybod iddi gael ei hamau o‘r blaen. concern of primary school headteachers in Roeddwn yn arswydo bod y Prif Weinidog, Wales. He said that, Carwyn Jones, wedi wfftio pryderon penaethiaid ysgolion cynradd yng Nghymru yn y Siambr. Dywedodd fod,

‗Any opinion poll showing results in the 90s ‗Unrhyw arolwg barn sy‘n dangos in terms of support or opposition is suspect‘. canlyniadau yn y 90au o ran cefnogaeth neu wrthwynebiad yn amheus‘.

However, surely the higher return rate of Fodd bynnag, onid yw‘r gyfradd ddychwelyd more than 35% suggests extensive concern in uwch o fwy na 35% yn awgrymu bod cryn the sector concerning Welsh Government bryder yn y sector ynglŷn â pholisi policy. To run through it very quickly, 96.5% Llywodraeth Cymru. Os caf fynd drwy‘r of primary schools do not think that banding manylion yn gyflym iawn, mae 96.5% o will help them, and two thirds of ysgolion cynradd o‘r farn na fydd bandio yn headteachers feel that the new policy could eu helpu, ac mae dwy ran o dair o‘r be compromised. That is just primary school penaethiaid yn teimlo y gallai‘r polisi teachers. Let us look at secondary school newydd gael ei beryglu. Dim ond athrawon teachers and consider where banding is not ysgolion cynradd yw hynny. Gadewch inni supporting them. There are schools in bands edrych ar athrawon ysgolion uwchradd ac 4 and 5, to which the Government promised ystyried lle nad yw bandio yn eu cefnogi. targeted help, which have been given £10,000 Mae ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5, yr to spread around wherever they like. addawodd y Llywodraeth roi cymorth wedi‘i dargedu iddynt, sydd wedi cael £10,000 i‘w wario fel y mynnont.

That brings me to the pupil deprivation Mae hynny‘n dod â mi at y grant grant—and I am sure that the Liberal amddifadedd disgyblion—ac rwy‘n siŵr na Democrats will not be surprised to hear that fydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn synnu o we will not support that amendment. glywed na fyddwn yn cefnogi‘r gwelliant However, we will support the other Liberal hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn cefnogi Democrat amendment because, again, there is gwelliant arall y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol money sloshing around being given to oherwydd, unwaith eto, mae llif sylweddol o schools, but where are the outcomes? Where arian ar gael sy‘n cael ei roi i ysgolion, ond is the focus? [Interruption.] It is absolutely ble mae‘r canlyniadau? Ble mae‘r ffocws? sloshing around, Minister. Once again, we [Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr mae‘n llifo, are throwing money at a problem but we are Weinidog. Unwaith eto, rydym yn taflu arian not waiting to see whether the money solves at broblem ond nid ydym yn aros i weld a the problem or stopping to correct things and yw‘r arian yn datrys y broblem nac yn aros i

95 07/11/2012 put the money where it needs to be. unioni pethau a rhoi‘r arian lle mae ei angen.

Monitoring, achieving value for money, Monitro, sicrhau gwerth am arian, being outcome-focused— canolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Dewch i ben yn Conclude now, please. awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Angela Burns: Minister, that is all we are Angela Burns: Weinidog, dyna‘r cyfan yr asking of you. One of the outcomes that you ydym yn gofyn i chi ei wneud. Un o‘r could certainly focus on is getting the deilliannau y gallech yn sicr ganolbwyntio regional consortia up and running. arno yw sicrhau bod consortia rhanbarthol yn weithredol.

Jocelyn Davies: I would like to focus on two Jocelyn Davies: Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar points in my contribution: the quasi-league ddau bwynt yn fy nghyfraniad: y lled-dablau tables, or banding as the Government calls it, cynghrair, neu fandio fel y mae‘r and the sharing of best practice in the Llywodraeth yn ei alw, a rhannu arfer gorau education consortia. I reiterate our opposition yn y consortia addysg. Datganaf unwaith eto to banding. However, I acknowledge that, in ein gwrthwynebiad i fandio. Fodd bynnag, the context of this debate, it is clear that the cydnabyddaf, yng nghyd-destun y ddadl hon, original concept of the regional consortia was ei bod yn amlwg mai cefnogi a chynorthwyo based on supporting and assisting schools ysgolion sydd wedi cael eu rhoi ym mandiau that have been branded as being in bands 4 4 a 5 oedd wrth wraidd cysyniad gwreiddiol y and 5. As we have already heard, these consortia rhanbarthol. Fel yr ydym wedi consortia are not yet functioning. That means clywed eisoes, nid yw‘r consortia hyn ar that the schools in the lowest bands have all waith eto. Mae hynny‘n golygu bod yr the disadvantages of being seen as the worst ysgolion yn y bandiau isaf yn wynebu‘r holl performers without the support and assistance anfanteision o gael eu hystyried fel y that they need to improve the literacy, perfformwyr gwaethaf heb y gefnogaeth na‘r numeracy and attainment levels of pupils. cymorth sydd eu hangen arnynt i wella Furthermore, the teaching unions have said llythrennedd, rhifedd a lefelau cyrhaeddiad that these schools face a potential spiral of disgyblion. At hynny, mae undebau‘r decline with teachers and pupils abandoning athrawon wedi dweud bod yr ysgolion hyn yn them for schools in the higher bands. wynebu dirywiad graddol o bosibl wrth i athrawon a disgyblion gefnu arnynt a throi at ysgolion yn y bandiau uwch.

Contrary to the Minister‘s claim that banding Yn groes i honiad y Gweinidog nad enwi a is not naming and shaming schools and that it chywilyddio ysgolion yw bandio ac nad yw‘n is not the return of league tables, placing dychwelyd at dablau cynghrair, nid yw gosod schools in bands without the focus of sharing ysgolion mewn bandiau heb y ffocws ar best practice with, and giving support to, the rannu arfer gorau gyda‘r ysgolion yn y schools in the lower bands is no different bandiau isaf, a rhoi cymorth iddynt, yn ddim from placing them in league tables. The byd amgenach na‘u gosod mewn tablau Welsh Government‘s aim should be to see cynghrair. Fel nod, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru the bottom two bands empty. However, as set anelu at weld y ddau fand ar y gwaelod yn out clearly by Simon Thomas recently, any wag. Fodd bynnag, fel yr amlinellwyd yn glir examination of the statistical analysis and the gan Simon Thomas yn ddiweddar, mae statistical relationship within the banding unrhyw ystyriaeth o‘r dadansoddiad system shows clearly that all bands will ystadegol a‘r berthynas ystadegol o fewn y continue to be populated. Every band will system fandio yn dangos yn glir y bydd pob have a number of schools in it and we are band yn parhau i gael ei boblogi. Ym mhob therefore bound to continue to have schools band bydd nifer o ysgolion ac felly byddwn in bands 4 and 5. Under the School Standards yn sicr o barhau i weld ysgolion ym mandiau

96 07/11/2012 and Organisation (Wales) Bill, banding will 4 a 5. O dan Fil Safonau a Threfniadaeth be part of the data used to decide whether Ysgolion (Cymru), bydd bandio yn rhan o‘r there are grounds for intervention in schools data a ddefnyddir i benderfynu a oes sail dros and schools‘ improvement guidance will be ymyrryd mewn ysgolion a bydd canllawiau statutory. That provides additional reasons gwella ysgolion yn statudol. Mae hynny‘n for the regional consortia to be up and rhoi rhesymau ychwanegol dros sicrhau bod running as soon as possible. y consortia rhanbarthol yn weithredol cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

I know that I do not have much time so, to Gwn nad oes gennyf lawer o amser felly, i finish, I just wish to say that I am delighted orffen, y cyfan yr hoffwn ei ddweud yw fy that the Minister gave us assurances earlier mod yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi rhoi today that the laptops purchased by Torfaen sicrwydd inni yn gynharach heddiw y bydd y council will be put to use by Welsh pupils gliniaduron a brynwyd gan gyngor Torfaen soon. However, perhaps the Minister will tell yn cael eu dosbarthu at ddefnydd disgyblion us whether he thinks that such projects would yng Nghymru cyn hir. Fodd bynnag, efallai y be more effectively handled by the regional bydd y Gweinidog yn dweud wrthym a yw consortia in future. Minister, as Simon o‘r farn y byddai prosiectau o‘r fath yn cael Thomas mentioned earlier, you told us in eu cynnal yn fwy effeithiol gan y consortia March that all the local authority leaders had rhanbarthol yn y dyfodol. Weinidog, fel y assured you that education was their No. 1 soniodd Simon Thomas yn gynharach, priority. Since then, we have had the local dywedasoch wrthym ym mis Mawrth fod pob government elections, so I wonder whether arweinydd awdurdod lleol wedi rhoi you can assure us this afternoon whether sicrwydd ichi mai addysg oedd eu prif education remains the No. 1 priority for all flaenoriaeth. Ers hynny, cynhaliwyd our councils across Wales. etholiadau llywodraeth leol, felly tybed a allwch roi sicrwydd inni y prynhawn yma ynghylch a yw addysg yn parhau i fod yn brif flaenoriaeth i‘n holl gynghorau ledled Cymru.

Jenny Rathbone: Children have a right to Jenny Rathbone: Mae gan blant yr hawl i expect that every school is a good school ddisgwyl bod pob ysgol yn ysgol dda am nad because they do not get to choose, in the ydynt yn cael dewis, ar y cyfan, yn enwedig main, particularly not at primary school level. ar lefel ysgol gynradd. Mewn llawer o In many cases, their families do not choose achosion, nid yw eu teuluoedd yn dewis either because, if they are suffering ychwaith oherwydd, os ydynt yn wynebu deprivation, they probably have an awful lot amddifadedd, y tebyg yw bod ganddynt lawer of other issues on their plates and agonising iawn o faterion eraill i‘w hystyried ac nid about which school to go to, rather than ymboeni ynghylch pa ysgol i‘w dewis yw‘r whether to go to school, is not the issue. peth pwysig, ond penderfynu mynd i‘r ysgol ai peidio.

4.45 p.m.

In addition, in many parts of Wales and in At hynny, mewn sawl rhan o Gymru ac rural areas, there is not a great choice of mewn ardaloedd gwledig, nid oes llawer o schools because of the difficulties in terms of ddewis o ysgolion oherwydd yr anawsterau o transport. So, we have an obligation to ensure ran trafnidiaeth. Felly, mae dyletswydd that all our schools are good schools and I am arnom i sicrhau bod pob un o‘n hysgolion yn sure that that is the objective for us all. ysgol dda, ac rwy‘n siŵr mai dyna‘r nod inni However, as Angela Burns has already i gyd. Fodd bynnag, fel y mae Angela Burns highlighted, we have some way to go. I do eisoes wedi amlygu, mae gennym dipyn o not think that any of us are in denial about the ffordd i fynd. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw un challenges that we face. It is not that we have ohonom yn gwadu‘r heriau sy‘n ein

97 07/11/2012 not improved, it is just that other countries or hwynebu. Nid methu â gwella yr ydym regions have improved even better than we wedi‘i wneud, ond bod gwledydd neu have. We continue to have a challenge that ranbarthau eraill wedi gwella hyd yn oed yn we all have to rise up to, to ensure that all our fwy na ni. Rydym yn parhau i wynebu her y children are achieving to the best of their mae‘n rhaid inni i gyd ymateb iddi, er mwyn ability and that we collectively are able to sicrhau bod ein holl blant yn cyflawni hyd pay our way in the world. eithaf eu gallu ac y gallwn gyda‘n gilydd dalu ein ffordd yn y byd.

I commend that Minister‘s approach to Cymeradwyaf y ffordd y mae‘r Gweinidog focusing on the basics—the three Rs—rather yn canolbwyntio ar yr hanfodion—darllen, than lots of new initiatives. I would also like ysgrifennu a rhifedd—yn hytrach na llu o to remind everyone about the importance of fentrau newydd. Hoffwn hefyd atgoffa pawb the Government‘s initiatives around the am bwysigrwydd mentrau‘r Llywodraeth yng Flying Start programme. We are doubling the nghyswllt y rhaglen Dechrau‘n Deg. Rydym number of children living in deprivation who yn dyblu nifer y plant sy‘n byw mewn are going to get that support from birth, amddifadedd a fydd yn cael y cymorth because that is when the deprivation begins. hwnnw o enedigaeth, oherwydd dyna pryd y We will continue to have children arriving at mae‘r amddifadedd yn dechrau. Byddwn yn school unable to speak more than three words parhau i weld achosion o blant sy‘n cyrraedd at the age of three unless we have much more yr ysgol heb fedru siarad mwy na thri gair yn intervention in ensuring that all parents dair oed oni bai bod llawer mwy o ymyrraeth understand the importance of talking to their i sicrhau bod pob rhiant yn deall children. Where the attachment process is pwysigrwydd siarad â‘i blant. Os amherir ar y disrupted, there is no question that it has a broses o ffurfio perthynas, nid oes amheuaeth huge impact on children‘s abilities to learn. nad yw‘n cael effaith enfawr ar allu plant i In addition to that, we have the foundation ddysgu. Yn ogystal â hynny, ceir y cyfnod phase. Estyn highlights the benefits that we sylfaen. Mae Estyn yn tynnu sylw at y have already seen from the foundation phase, manteision yr ydym eisoes wedi‘u gweld o‘r particularly to boys, of outdoor lessons and of cyfnod sylfaen, yn enwedig i fechgyn, o being able to run, jump, explore and gynnal gwersi yn yr awyr agored a rhoi cyfle experiment, which has been hugely important iddynt redeg, neidio, archwilio ac arbrofi, in that approach of learning through play. sydd wedi bod yn hynod bwysig yn y dull o ddysgu drwy chwarae.

Consortia are one way of sharing good Consortia yw un ffordd o rannu arfer da a practice and we absolutely have to do that. rhaid inni wneud hynny yn sicr. Rhaid inni We have to be much cleverer in ensuring that fod yn fwy craff o lawer o ran sicrhau nad we are not reinventing the wheel. It does not ydym yn ailddyfeisio‘r olwyn. Nid yw‘n cael remove the statutory function of all LEAs, gwared ar swyddogaeth statudol pob AALl, which is unchanged and which is the nad yw wedi newid, sef y rhwymedigaeth i obligation to raise school standards in all godi safonau ysgol ym mhob un o‘u their schools. However, getting local hysgolion. Fodd bynnag, nid tasg hawdd yw authorities to collaborate, as we heard in cael awdurdodau lleol i gydweithio, fel y earlier questions to the Minister for local clywsom mewn cwestiynau cynharach i‘r government, is not particularly easy. That Gweinidog llywodraeth leol. Nid yw hynny‘n does not mean to say that we do not need golygu nad oes angen inni fynd ar drywydd y pursue the consortia idea as a way of syniad o gonsortia fel ffordd o sicrhau bod ensuring that people are sharing good pobl yn rhannu arfer da. practice.

I would like to mention an excellent example Hoffwn sôn am enghraifft ardderchog o arfer of good practice that has been going on at da a welir yn Ysgol Uwchradd Llanedeyrn, Llanedeyrn High School, where I am a lle yr wyf yn llywodraethwraig. Mae hon yn governor. This is a school that is due to close ysgol a fydd yn cau yn weddol fuan. Serch

98 07/11/2012 in the not-too-distant future. Nevertheless, it hynny, mae‘n mynd ati i ddatblygu cymuned has an approach of developing a professional ddysgu broffesiynol sy‘n cynnwys yr holl learning community involving all the staff— staff—yr holl athrawon, yr holl staff cymorth all teachers, all support staff and the senior a‘r uwch dîm rheoli—gan sicrhau y caiff yr management team—and ensuring that the in- amser hyfforddiant mewn swydd y mae pob service training time that all schools have is ysgol yn ei gael ei ddefnyddio i fynd i‘r afael used to address collectively aspects of ar y cyd ag agweddau ar ddarllen ac reading and writing and to address the gap of ysgrifennu a mynd i‘r afael â bwlch deprivation. They share good practice and amddifadedd. Maent yn rhannu arferion da a shortcomings that they each can diffygion y gall pob un ohonynt eu cydnabod, acknowledge, taking them back to what they gan fynd â hwy yn ôl at yr hyn y maent have learnt from their INSET, taking it back wedi‘i ddysgu yn eu HMS, gan fynd â hwy to the classroom and then coming back at the yn ôl i‘r ystafell ddosbarth, ac yna dod yn ôl subsequent session to explain how their yn y sesiwn ddilynol i egluro sut y mae eu practice has improved. That sort of learning harfer wedi gwella. Mae‘r math hwnnw o is very effective in ensuring that all members ddysgu yn effeithiol iawn o ran sicrhau bod of staff are actively ensuring that they are pob aelod o staff yn mynd ati i sicrhau eu bod doing the very best for their children. That is yn gwneud y gorau dros eu plant. Dyna‘r the sort of thing that can be shared in math o beth y gellir ei rannu mewn consortia consortia as well across local education yn ogystal ag mewn awdurdodau addysg authorities. lleol.

On the question of system leaders, obviously O ran arweinwyr system, yn amlwg mae‘n it is disappointing that we do not have all the siomedig nad yw‘r holl arweinwyr system yn system leaders in place. However, we have to eu lle. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni benodi have system leaders that are capable of doing arweinwyr system sy‘n gallu gwneud y that particular job. As I recall, when the gwaith penodol hwnnw. Fel y cofiaf, pan National Association of Head Teachers came ddaeth Cymdeithas Genedlaethol y to speak to the Children and Young People Prifathrawon i siarad â‘r Pwyllgor Plant a committee, it highlighted the fact that there Phobl Ifanc, tynnodd sylw at y ffaith nad oes are not enough headteachers going on to digon o benaethiaid yn mynd yn eu blaenau i work in school improvement, particularly at weithio ym maes gwella ysgolion, yn secondary level. It is no use having a system enwedig ar lefel uwchradd. Nid oes diben leader who does not have a clue and does not cael arweinydd system nad oes ganddo have the experience to be able to challenge syniad ac nad oes ganddo‘r profiad i allu senior management teams about the herio uwch dimau rheoli am ineffectiveness of their work. If they have aneffeithiolrwydd eu gwaith. Os nad ydynt never done it themselves and do not have the erioed wedi gwneud hynny eu hunain ac nad experience, they are simply not going to be ydynt yn meddu ar y profiad, yn syml ni taken seriously. So, I wonder whether the chânt eu cymryd o ddifrif. Felly, tybed a Minister could tell us how we can resolve allai‘r Gweinidog ddweud wrthym sut y that problem, to ensure that headteachers go gallwn ddatrys y broblem honno, er mwyn on to share their experience with other sicrhau bod penaethiaid yn mynd ati i rannu headteachers. eu profiad gyda phenaethiaid eraill.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Wrth reswm, rydym i Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Naturally, we are all gyd yn awyddus i weld safonau addysg yn eager to see education standards in general gyffredinol yn codi yng Nghymru. Rydym yn being raised in Wales. We are aware of the ymwybodol o‘r math o ystadegau sydd wedi kinds of statistics that have been published cael eu cyhoeddi dros y blynyddoedd over the last few years that show that we are diwethaf sydd yn dangos ein bod yn underperforming generally. However, there is tanberfformio yn gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, a danger that, in concentrating on the bare mae perygl, wrth ganolbwyntio ar yr statistics, we come to the conclusion that all ystadegau moel, ein bod yn dod i‘r casgliad children start off at the same level and that bod pob plentyn yn dechrau ar yr un lefel ac what needs to be done is to improve the

99 07/11/2012 mai‘r hyn sydd angen ei wneud yw gwella educational and attainment levels of each lefelau addysgiadol a chyrhaeddiad pob child uniformly. plentyn yn yr un modd.

Wrth feddwl am rôl y consortia rhanbarthol, Thinking about the role of the regional mae‘n ymddangos i mi fod ganddynt rôl consortia, it seems to me that they have a arbennig ar gyfer disgyblion sydd ag special role to play on behalf of pupils who anghenion arbennig, yn enwedig pan fo‘r have special needs, especially those whose anghenion hynny yn rhai prin. Mae‘n siŵr needs are rare. I am sure that other Assembly bod Aelodau Cynulliad eraill, wrth geisio Members will have discovered, in trying to sicrhau bod plentyn yn cael addysg arbenigol, ensure that a child receives specialist wedi cael yr un profiad â minnau o ganfod education, that the expertise does not exist nad yw‘r arbenigedd hwnnw yn bodoli o within local authorities‘ education fewn adran addysg yr awdurdod lleol a bod departments and that those departments are yr adran honno‘n teimlo y gall unrhyw un often of the view that anyone who has any sydd ag unrhyw fath o gymhwyster i ddysgu sort of qualification to teach children with plant ag anghenion arbennig ddarparu addysg special needs will be able provide education ar gyfer y plentyn hwnnw, beth bynnag fo‘r for that child, regardless of the need. angen.

Yn fy ngwaith etholaethol, rwyf wedi In my constituency work, I have come across wynebu sefyllfaoedd fel hyn gydag such situations in the context of special needs anghenion arbennig yn gyffredinol, ond, yn in general, but I have also faced this situation arbennig, rwyf wedi wynebu‘r sefyllfa hon with parents who want their children to have gyda rhieni sy‘n dymuno i‘w plant gael the specialist education they need through the addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn medium of Welsh. However, because the meysydd arbenigol, ond, oherwydd bod y numbers are smaller, local authorities cannot niferoedd yn llai, fod awdurdodau unigol yn make that provision. The Minister will know methu â darparu hynny. Bydd y Gweinidog that I have raised with him, on a number of yn gwybod fy mod wedi codi gydag ef, ar occasions by now, the issue of dyslexia nifer o achlysuron erbyn hyn, yr anghenion o provision through the medium of Welsh. The ran dyslecsia drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. same is true of provision for autism through Mae‘r un peth yn wir am anghenion o ran the medium of Welsh, and several other awtistiaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, a nifer areas. Will the Minister make a commitment o feysydd eraill. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi this afternoon that the regional consortia, as ymrwymiad y prynhawn yma y bydd y part of their responsibilities, will tackle the consortia rhanbarthol, fel rhan o‘u deficiencies within individual authorities in cyfrifoldebau, yn mynd i‘r afael â‘r diffygion order to ensure that the provision is available hyn sydd yn bodoli o fewn awdurdodau on a regional level so that all education unigol a sicrhau bod y ddarpariaeth honno ar authorities can ensure that the service is gael yn rhanbarthol a bod modd i bob available to all pupils within the area for awdurdod addysg sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth which they are responsible? hwnnw ar gael i ddisgyblion yn yr ardal y maent yn gyfrifol amdani?

Roeddwn mewn seminar ddoe gyda I attended a seminar yesterday with the Phwyllgor y Rhanbarthau yn Treviso yn sôn Committee of the Regions in Treviso, which am dwristiaeth a mynediad i bawb at was all about tourism and people‘s access to dwristiaeth. Dywedodd un o brif weithredwyr it. A chief executive of a chain of European cadwyn o westai drwy Ewrop, ‗Does gennym hotels said, ‗We do not have any disabled ni ddim pobl anabl yn aros yn ein gwestai ni. people staying in our hotels. We do not have Does gennym ni ddim pobl ag anghenion people with special needs staying in our arbennig yn aros yn ein gwestai ni. Mae hotels. We have customers staying in our gennym ni gwsmeriaid yn aros yn ein gwestai hotels and it is our responsibility to provide ni a‘n cyfrifoldeb ni yw darparu ar gyfer eu for their needs, whatever those needs may

100 07/11/2012 hanghenion nhw, beth bynnag fo‘r anghenion be.‘ Do you agree, Minister, that that is also hynny.‘ A ydych yn cytuno, Weinidog, fod true of education—it is not children with hynny‘n wir am addysg hefyd—nid plant ag special needs or disabled children that we anghenion arbennig neu blant anabl sydd have, but pupils, and pupils with a range a gennym, ond disgyblion, a disgyblion ag needs for which it is the responsibility of ystod o anghenion y mae‘n gyfrifoldeb ar education authorities, the Government and awdurdodau addysg, y Llywodraeth a‘r the Assembly to provide? What I am seeking Cynulliad i ddarparu ar eu cyfer? Yr hyn from you this afternoon is a commitment to rwy‘n ei geisio gennych y prynhawn yma yw ensure that, when a local education authority, ymrwymiad sy‘n dweud y byddwch chi‘n for whatever reason—and I am not being gwneud yn siŵr, pan fydd awdurdod addysg critical of those authorities in this respect—is lleol am ba reswm bynnag—nid wyf yn bod unable to provide for a limited number of yn feirniadol o‘r awdurdodau hynny yn hyn o pupils, the provision is made fully available beth—yn methu â darparu ar gyfer nifer for those pupils through the regional cyfyngedig o ddisgyblion, fod y ddarpariaeth consortia, regardless of whether it is needed honno ar gael yn llawn i‘r disgyblion hynny by one or two children, by tens of children, or drwy gonsortiwm rhanbarthol, boed yn un by hundreds or thousands, as is the case neu ddau o blant, yn ddegau, yn gannoedd throughout Wales. This will ensure that each neu yn filoedd o blant, fel sy‘n wir drwy child has the same right to education of the Gymru gyfan. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau bod gan highest possible standard and the opportunity bob plentyn yr un hawl i gael addysg o‘r to develop fully their educational potential in safon uchaf a‘r cyfle i ddatblygu i‘w Wales. potensial llawn yn addysgiadol yng Nghymru.

Mark Isherwood: It is hard to think of a Mark Isherwood: Mae‘n anodd meddwl am subject that is more important to the future bwnc sy‘n bwysicach i ffyniant Cymru yn y prosperity of Wales than what is done now to dyfodol na‘r hyn a wneir yn awr i fynd i‘r address what even the Minister has admitted afael â‘r hyn y mae hyd yn oed y Gweinidog have been systemic failures in the education wedi cyfaddef sydd wedi bod yn fethiannau system presided over by a succession of systematig yn y gyfundrefn addysg o dan un Labour-led Welsh Governments. The llywodraeth yng Nghymru ar ôl y llall o dan Minister has, of course, announced a range of arweiniad Llafur. Wrth gwrs, mae‘r measures to tackle the failures that were so Gweinidog wedi cyhoeddi nifer o fesurau i evident in, for example, in the Programme for fynd i‘r afael â‘r methiannau a fu mor amlwg, International Student Assessment and the er enghraifft, yn y Rhaglen Ryngwladol persistent attainment gap between Welsh and Asesu Myfyrwyr a‘r bwlch cyson o ran English students in top grades at GCSE and cyrhaeddiad rhwng myfyrwyr yng Nghymru A-level. While the Minister has focused on a Lloegr yn y graddau uchaf mewn TGAU a structures, regional school improvement Safon Uwch. Er bod y Gweinidog wedi partnerships and on banding for secondary canolbwyntio ar strwythurau, partneriaethau and primary schools, ultimately, the success gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol ac ar fandio ar or the failure of the Welsh Government‘s gyfer ysgolion uwchradd a chynradd, yn y approach hinges on whether it delivers the pen draw, bydd llwyddiant neu fethiant dull results in schools. gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru yn dibynnu ar ba un a yw‘n cael y canlyniadau mewn ysgolion.

In terms of the banding proposals for primary O ran y cynigion bandio ar gyfer ysgolion schools, it is worrying that there was such a cynradd, mae‘n destun pryder bod cymaint o widespread lack of confidence in the Welsh ddiffyg hyder yng nghynlluniau Llywodraeth Government‘s plans. Our colleague Angela Cymru. Cyfeiriodd ein cyd-Aelod Angela Burns referred to the survey of primary Burns at arolwg o benaethiaid cynradd, a headteachers, carried out by the Welsh gynhaliwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, a Conservatives, which found that more than ganfu fod mwy na naw o bob 10 ysgol

101 07/11/2012 nine out of 10 primary schools did not gynradd o‘r farn na fydd bandio o fudd believe that they would benefit from banding iddynt hwy gan ddweud nad ymgynghorwyd and said that they were not consulted on the â hwy ynglŷn â‘r cynigion ac na chawsant proposals or adequately informed. It is also ddigon o wybodaeth. Mae‘n achosi pryder concerning that the Welsh Government is hefyd bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw pressing ahead with its approach without an ymlaen â hyn heb becyn effeithiol o gymorth effective package of support for those i‘r ysgolion uwchradd hynny ym mandiau 4 a secondary schools in bands 4 and 5. Instead, 5. Yn hytrach, bydd un taliad untro o £10,000 there is just a one-off payment of £10,000 for i bob un o‘r ysgolion hyn. Aseswyd bod pob each of these schools. Each school in bands 4 ysgol ym mandiau 4 a 5 yn perfformio‘n wael and 5 were assessed as poorly performing in mewn unrhyw gyfuniad o 12 o feini prawf any combination of 12 different criteria. gwahanol. Felly mae un ateb i bawb yn Therefore a one-size-fits-all response is annhebygol o fod yn addas ar gyfer unlikely to be ideally suited to the needs of anghenion pob ysgol, ac mae‘n wahanol iawn each school, and is a far cry from the i‘r cymorth helaeth a gwahaniaethol a extensive and differentiated support that the gynigiwyd gan y Gweinidog. Nid yw‘n dod Minister has proposed. It does not come close yn agos at gau‘r bwlch cyllido o £604 rhwng to closing the £604 funding gap between myfyrwyr yng Nghymru a Lloegr ar Welsh and English students on average, gyfartaledd, o gynnwys Llundain rhaid admittedly with London included. cyfaddef.

I share the concerns of many of my Rhannaf bryderon llawer o‘m hetholwyr sydd constituents who have contacted me about wedi cysylltu â mi ynglŷn ag addysg eu plant. their children‘s education. These are concerns Y pryderon yw bod Llywodraeth Cymru i that the Welsh Government appears to be bob golwg yn canolbwyntio ar fandio a focusing its intention on banding and strwythurau ac yn colli golwg ar y safonau structures while taking its eye off the ball on gwael a ysgogodd y newidiadau hyn yn y lle the poor standards that prompted these cyntaf. Mae pryderon hefyd, er bod nifer y changes in the first place. There are concerns gwaharddiadau yn gostwng yn gyffredinol, too that while, overall, exclusions are falling, sy‘n newyddion da, a bod nifer y datganiadau which is good news, and the number of am anghenion dysgu ychwanegol hefyd wedi statements for additional learning needs have bod yn gostwng—a allai fod yn newyddion also been falling—which could be good or da neu ddrwg—mae nifer y gwaharddiadau bad news—the number of exclusions of ymhlith plant ag anghenion arbennig neu children with special or additional learning anghenion dysgu ychwanegol wedi bod yn needs has been rising significantly. cynyddu‘n sylweddol.

I am sure that the Minister will accept that it Bydd y Gweinidog yn derbyn, mae‘n siŵr, na would be of little use to Welsh students, and fyddai fawr o werth i fyfyrwyr o Gymru, na little comfort to their parents, if Wales ends fawr o gysur i‘w rhieni, pe bai gan Gymru up with first-rate structures for the education strwythurau o‘r radd flaenaf ar gyfer y system when standards continue to fall so gyfundrefn addysg ond bod safonau‘n parhau short. I urge him to listen carefully to the i fod mor siomedig. Apeliaf arno i wrando‘n contributions made by Members from all ofalus ar y cyfraniadau a wnaed gan Aelodau parties here today—as made previously and, o bob plaid yma heddiw—fel y‘u gwnaed o‘r no doubt, as will be made in the future—and blaen ac, yn ddiau, fel y cânt eu gwneud yn y provide assurances that he is focusing on dyfodol—a rhoi sicrwydd ei fod yn what matters, which is delivering the results canolbwyntio ar yr hyn sy‘n bwysig, sy‘n for Welsh pupils whatever their additional or sicrhau‘r canlyniadau i ddisgyblion Cymru non-additional educational needs may be, so beth bynnag fo‘u hanghenion addysg that they have the best opportunity to succeed ychwanegol neu eu hanghenion addysg nad in life. ydynt yn ychwanegol, fel eu bod yn cael y cyfle gorau i lwyddo mewn bywyd.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Mae consortia addysg Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Regional educational

102 07/11/2012 rhanbarthol yn rhoi cyfle i ailgyfeirio consortia give an opportunity to redirect adnoddau o reolaeth a biwrocratiaeth i‘r resources from management and bureaucracy ystafell ddosbarth. Maent hefyd yn rhoi cyfle into the classroom. They also give local i awdurdodau lleol rannu profiadau ac authorities an opportunity to share arbenigedd, ac i rannu, ond yn bwysicach i experiences and expertise, and to share, but ddysgu oddi wrth, arfer da. Dyna paham rwyf more importantly learn from, best practice. wedi derbyn yr egwyddor o sefydlu‘r That is why I have accepted the principle of consortia a pham yr wyf yn credu mai nhw establishing these consortia, and it is why I ddylai fod yn gyrru tair blaenoriaeth believe that they should be driving the three Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer addysg, sef Welsh Government priorities for education: gwella llythrennedd, gwella rhifedd ac—fel y improving literacy, improving numeracy, clywsom sawl gwaith—torri‘r cysylltiad and—as we have heard on a number of rhwng cyrhaeddiad addysgol ac occasions—breaking the link between amddifadedd. Fodd bynnag, mae sefydlu‘r educational attainment and deprivation. consortia wedi bod yn llawn anawsterau. However, establishing these consortia has Addawodd y Gweinidog, fel y clywsom, y been fraught with difficulty. The Minister byddai‘r consortia yn weithredol erbyn mis pledged, as we have heard, that the consortia Medi eleni, ond nid yw hynny wedi digwydd. would be operational by September this year, but that has not been the case.

Daeth adroddiad blynyddol Estyn ar gyfer The annual Estyn report for 2010-11 was 2010-11 allan ddiwedd Ionawr eleni ac fe published at the end of January, and it ddangosodd nad yw gweithio mewn showed that working in partnership has not partneriaeth wedi cael digon o effaith ar had an inadequate impact on improving wella canlyniadau i ddysgwyr hyd yma. Mae outcomes for learners to date. It also states hefyd yn dweud er bod yr awdurdodau lleol that although all local authorities liaise with yn ymgysylltu â‘u consortia addysg their regional and local education consortia, rhanbarthol a lleol, dim ond ychydig iawn very few of them are able to report clearly on ohonynt sy‘n medru adrodd yn glir ar effaith the impact of this joint working in improving y gwaith ar y cyd yma ar wella gwasanaethau services or outcomes. Therefore, these neu ganlyniadau. Mae angen felly i‘r consortia need to become operational as soon consortia fod yn weithredol cyn gynted ag y as possible in order to support the schools bo modd er mwyn cefnogi‘r ysgolion sydd that have been placed in the lower bands, and wedi eu gosod yn y bandiau is, ac er mwyn in order to drive forward improvements in gyrru gwelliannau o safbwynt y relation to the priorities I mentioned earlier. blaenoriaethau y soniais amdanynt yn You could argue that for the Minister to gynharach. Gallech chi ddweud bod i‘r expect the consortia to be in place by Gweinidog ddisgwyl yn y lle cyntaf i‘r September 2012 was ambitious in the first consortia fod yn weithredol erbyn Medi 2012 place. Certainly, the local authorities clearly yn uchelgeisiol. Yn sicr, roedd yr saw the significant work that was required to awdurdodau lleol yn gweld yn glir y gwaith reorganise services in this way, with many sylweddol yr oedd ei angen er mwyn decisions having to be referred back to the aildrefnu gwasanaeth fel hyn, gyda sawl local authority, and so forth, along the way to penderfyniad yn gorfod mynd yn ôl i‘r becoming a fully operational service. To me, awdurdod lleol ar hyd y daith o ddod yn that once again reflects the whole way that wasanaeth gweithredol. I mi, mae hynny‘n the Government has dealt with this issue: adlewyrchu‘r holl fodd y mae‘r Llywodraeth creating a banding system without ensuring wedi delio gyda‘r mater yma: mynd ati i greu the necessary arrangements to support those system fandio heb sicrhau‘r trefniadau schools that most needed the support. The angenrheidiol i gefnogi‘r ysgolion hynny a Minister announced the banding system in oedd angen y gefnogaeth fwyaf. Cyhoeddodd December last year, with a clear commitment y Gweinidog y drefn fandio ym mis Rhagfyr that schools in bands 4 and 5 would be given y llynedd, gan roi ymrwymiad clir y byddai‘r support by the consortia. The consortia are ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5 yn cael still not fully operational. In the meantime, cefnogaeth gan y consortia. Nid yw‘r we have schools that have been stigmatised

103 07/11/2012 consortia yn dal i weithredu‘n llawn. Yn y by banding without the support promised. cyfamser, mae gennym ysgolion sydd wedi cael y stigma o fandio heb y gefnogaeth a addawyd.

5.00 p.m.

Deallaf fod y consortia hyn am greu ysgolion I understand that these consortia will create arweiniol a fydd yn gyfrifol am helpu lead schools that will be responsible for ysgolion eraill yn eu rhanbarthau. Serch assisting other schools in their areas. hynny, mae‘n parhau i fod yn aneglur ar ba However, it is still unclear how these lead sail y bydd yr ysgolion arweiniol hyn yn cael schools will be selected and what the eu dewis a beth fydd y goblygiadau i‘r implications will be for the schools in terms ysgolion hyn o safbwynt athrawon. A fyddant of teachers. Will they, perhaps, be taken out efallai‘n cael eu tynnu allan o‘r dosbarth i of classrooms to provide support elsewhere, ddarparu cefnogaeth i eraill, gan roi pwysau putting additional burdens on the schools and gwaith ychwanegol ar yr ysgolion a‘r individuals involved? In addition, of course, unigolion hynny? Yn ogystal, wrth gwrs, mae there are questions about the funds that will cwestiynau ynghylch yr arian a fydd yn dod i be available to pay for this. I have heard dalu am hyn. Rwyf wedi clywed consýrn gan concerns from some that schools that require rai am y ffaith y bydd ysgolion ag arnynt assistance will have to contribute to this angen cymorth yn gorfod cyfrannu at y gost additional cost. If so, that will, in itself, create ychwanegol hon. Os felly, bydd hynny‘n creu further problems. Additionally, as we heard problemau pellach. Yn ogystal, fel y earlier in this debate, there is a question about clywsom yn gynharach yn y ddadl hon, mae how schools are to have confidence in the cwestiwn ynghylch sut y bydd ysgolion yn consortia when we read in the press that they cael hyder yn y consortia tra‘n bod yn darllen are having difficulty in recruiting people to yn y wasg eu bod yn cael cryn drafferth some of their key posts. As I said at the recriwtio pobl i rai o‘r swyddi allweddol. Fel outset, there is some agreement that this is y dywedais ar y cychwyn, mae cryn gytundeb the model that is needed, but it is becoming mai dyma‘r model sydd ei angen, ond mae‘n more and more apparent that there are dod yn fwyfwy amlwg bod cwestiynau mawr significant questions to be asked about the i‘w gofyn am y modd y mae‘r Llywodraeth way in which the Government has gone about hon wedi mynd o‘i chwmpas hi. this.

Rwyf hefyd am wneud ychydig o sylwadau I also want to make a few comments on the am y ddarpariaeth Gymraeg o fewn y Welsh-medium provision within this new drefniadaeth newydd hon. Teimlaf efallai y regime. I feel that, perhaps, guidelines will be bydd angen canllawiau ar y ddarpariaeth required on Welsh-medium provision, addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg, gan fod modd because one can anticipate some rhagweld y gallai rhai awdurdodau lleol disagreement between certain local anghydweld o ran sut i flaenoriaethu authorities on how to prioritise Welsh- darpariaeth yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae medium provision. Resources for Welsh as a adnoddau ar gyfer Cymraeg fel ail iaith wedi second language have been scarce within the bod yn brin o fewn consortiwm canolbarth y south Wales central consortium, for example. de, er enghraifft. Mae‘r rhwydwaith dysgu a The learning and innovation network for blaengaredd i ysgolion—neu LINKS, i schools—or LINKS, to use its acronym—has ddefnyddio‘r acronym Saesneg—wedi cael ei been established to support schools but there sefydlu yno i gefnogi ysgolion, ond dim ond is only one role that has been established un rôl sydd wedi cael ei sefydlu o fewn within LINKS to deal with Welsh-medium LINKS i ymdrin ag addysg Gymraeg. Mae education in an area where there are 60 hynny mewn ardal lle mae 60 o adrannau Welsh second language departments, with 19 Cymraeg fel ail iaith o fewn y consortia, gyda in Cardiff alone. Some of the issues facing 19 ohonynt yng Nghaerdydd yn unig. Mae those departments include not enough rhai o‘r materion sy‘n wynebu‘r adrannau teachers with the necessary training and

104 07/11/2012 hyn yn cynnwys dim digon o athrawon sy‘n Welsh language skills to actually teach the meddu ar yr hyfforddiant angenrheidiol a‘r subject. Given the shortage of teachers, it is sgiliau iaith Gymraeg angenrheidiol i then difficult to free up the teachers who are ddysgu‘r pwnc. Oherwydd y diffyg athrawon, available to go out to spread best practice mae‘n anodd rhyddhau‘r athrawon sydd yno i more widely within the region. It is also fynd allan a rhannu eu harferion da yn difficult to secure resources for the subject as ehangach o fewn y rhanbarth. Mae hefyd yn it is not a core subject—something that was anodd sicrhau adnoddau ar gyfer y pwnc, gan touched upon earlier this afternoon in nad yw‘n bwnc craidd—mater y soniwyd questions. amdano yn ystod cwestiynau yn gynharach y prynhawn yma.

Rwy‘n sicr bod pawb yma, gan gynnwys I am sure that we all here, including the Llywodraeth Cymru, am weld twf yr iaith Welsh Government, want to see the Welsh Gymraeg ym mhob rhan o Gymru. Mae‘n language grow in all parts of Wales. We must rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio y bydd rôl not forget that there will be a key role for the allweddol i‘r consortia rhanbarthol wrth regional consortia in trying to achieve that geisio gwireddu‘r nod hwnnw. aim.

The Minister for Education and Skills Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton (Leighton Andrews): I welcome the debate Andrews): Croesawaf y ddadl y prynhawn this afternoon. The reason that we are in this yma. Y rheswm ein bod yn y sefyllfa hon situation in relation to the establishment of mewn perthynas â sefydlu consortia regional consortia is because, in the mid rhanbarthol yw oherwydd, yng nghanol y 1990s, local government support for 1990au, aeth cymorth llywodraeth leol i education was fragmented. We went from addysg yn dameidiog. O sefyllfa lle bu wyth having eight education authorities to 22. That awdurdod addysg cafwyd 22. O ganlyniad dispersed expertise across Wales and it cafodd arbenigedd ei wasgaru ledled Cymru weakened the support that was available to gan beri i‘r cymorth a oedd ar gael i ysgolion schools. We have seen the consequence of wanhau. Rydym wedi gweld canlyniad hynny that over time, and in the evidence that has dros amser, ac yn y dystiolaeth y cyfeiriwyd been cited during this debate. We have no ati yn ystod y ddadl hon. Nid oes gennym local authorities that are marked as unrhyw awdurdodau lleol sy‘n cael eu nodi‘n ‗excellent‘ by Estyn. We have a number that ‗rhagorol‘ gan Estyn. Mae gennym nifer sydd are clearly failing. The move to regional yn amlwg yn methu. Cafodd y newid tuag at consortia was supported by the report of the gonsortia rhanbarthol ei gefnogi gan task and finish group, chaired by Viv adroddiad y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen, o dan Thomas, on the structure for delivery of gadeiryddiaeth Viv Thomas, ar y strwythur ar education in Wales. The consortia are up and gyfer darparu addysg yng Nghymru. Mae‘r running. In particular, they have established consortia yn weithredol. Yn benodol, maent shared school-improvement services. We wedi sefydlu gwasanaethau gwella ysgolion have agreed a review of consortia and their ar y cyd. Rydym wedi cytuno ar adolygiad readiness to deliver, which will be completed o‘r consortia a‘u parodrwydd i gyflawni, a before Christmas and will help inform policy gaiff ei gwblhau cyn y Nadolig ac a fydd yn direction for future delivery. helpu i lywio cyfeiriad polisi ar gyfer cyflawni yn y dyfodol.

At the end of the day, it is down to the local Yn y pen draw, mae‘n dibynnu ar yr authorities involved in the consortia to ensure awdurdodau lleol sy‘n cymryd rhan yn y that they are functioning and that they are consortia i sicrhau eu bod yn weithredol a‘u providing the support. It is disappointing that bod yn rhoi‘r cymorth. Mae‘n siomedig bod y the region that probably began ahead of the rhanbarth a ddechreuodd ar y blaen i‘r others—north Wales—is now probably not as gweddill siŵr o fod—gogledd Cymru— far advanced as the others, in terms of its bellach ar ei hôl hi yn ôl pob tebyg o‘i delivery of services. Members really have to gymharu â‘r lleill, o ran darparu

105 07/11/2012 make up their minds about this: do they want gwasanaethau. Rhaid i‘r Aelodau fod yn glir me to run education from the centre, or do eu meddwl am hyn: a ydynt am imi redeg they want local authorities to run the addysg o‘r canol, neu a ydynt am i consortia? There is no two ways about that. awdurdodau lleol redeg y consortia? Nid oes That is the choice that faces them. In which dwywaith amdani. Dyna‘r dewis sy‘n eu case, there is bound to be a degree of hwynebu. Os felly, mae‘n sicr y bydd unevenness in the way that these rhywfaint o anghysondeb yn y ffordd y mae‘r organisations are put together and in the way sefydliadau hyn yn cael eu sefydlu ac yn y that they deliver. ffordd y maent yn cyflawni.

A number of colleagues have made reference Cyfeiriodd nifer o gyd-Aelodau at gyllid. to funding. We have raised the funding that is Rydym wedi cynyddu‘r cyllid sydd ar gael i available to schools by 1% above the block ysgolion 1% yn uwch na‘r grant bloc yr grant that we receive from the UK ydym yn ei dderbyn gan Lywodraeth y DU, Government, even at a time of severe hyd yn oed ar adeg o gyfyngu mawr ar ein restriction on our budgets. We have also cyllidebau. Rydym hefyd wedi gorfodi forced the agreement of local authorities to awdurdodau lleol i gytuno i‘r cyfraddau the 80% delegation rates. That has been dirprwyo o 80%. Mae hynny wedi cael ei achieved across Wales as a whole and by gyflawni ledled Cymru gyfan a chan y rhan most local authorities. They have to move to fwyaf o awdurdodau lleol. Rhaid iddynt 85% delegation by September 2014. I have symud i ddirprwyo 85% erbyn mis Medi met with local authority leaders since the 2014. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod ag arweinwyr elections in May and I think that the awdurdodau lleol ers yr etholiadau ym mis commitment to education remains with them, Mai a chredaf fod yr ymrwymiad i addysg yn as it did before the election, despite changes parhau fel y bu cyn yr etholiad, er gwaethaf y in the authorities. There are still question newidiadau yn yr awdurdodau. Mae amheuon marks over the delivery in some areas. o hyd ynglŷn â darpariaeth mewn rhai meysydd.

People have made reference to schools in Cyfeiriodd pobl at ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a bands 4 and 5. We made money available, 5. Rydym wedi darparu arian, nid ‗llif not to be ‗sloshing around‘, as the sylweddol o arian‘, fel y dywedodd llefarydd Conservative education spokesperson said, addysg y Ceidwadwyr, ond yn unol â but against agreed plans, which had to be chynlluniau y cytunwyd arnynt, y bu‘n rhaid agreed in conjunction with local authorities cytuno arnynt ar y cyd ag awdurdodau lleol and the consortia. That money is being used a‘r consortia. Mae‘r arian hwnnw‘n cael ei in specific and targeted ways and we have ddefnyddio mewn ffyrdd penodol ac wedi‘u had reports back on how it is being used. I targedu ac rydym wedi cael adroddiadau yn was disappointed when the Plaid Cymru ôl ar y ffordd y caiff ei ddefnyddio. Cefais fy spokesperson referred to schools in bands 4 siomi pan gyfeiriodd llefarydd Plaid Cymru and 5 as ‗so-called failing schools‘. That is at ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a 5 fel ‗ysgolion not the terminology that I would use. I would sy‘n methu fel y‘u gelwir‘. Nid dyna‘r see these schools as keys to the success of derminoleg y byddwn yn ei defnyddio. our system. If we can improve the Byddwn yn ystyried yr ysgolion hyn yn performance of schools in bands 4 and 5, we allweddi i lwyddiant ein system. Os gallwn will see a disproportionate level of wella perfformiad ysgolion ym mandiau 4 a improvement across the entire system. We 5, byddwn yn gweld lefel anghymesur o are going through the results from the welliant ar draws y system gyfan. Rydym yn summer at the moment to see how the work mynd drwy ganlyniadau‘r haf ar hyn o bryd i has impacted within those band 4 and 5 weld sut mae‘r gwaith wedi effeithio ar yr schools. ysgolion hynny ym mandiau 4 a 5.

Let me remind colleagues and the opposition Gadewch imi atgoffa fy nghyd-Aelodau a‘r parties that the approach of grading schools gwrthbleidiau fod y dull o raddio ysgolion yn was a commitment in our party‘s manifesto. ymrwymiad ym maniffesto ein plaid. Rydym

106 07/11/2012

We are implementing that and will be yn gweithredu hynny, a byddwn yn ei implementing it for the primary sector as weithredu ar gyfer y sector cynradd hefyd. well. The Conservative spokesperson offered Cynigiodd llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr anfon to send me the details of her survey of manylion ei harolwg o ysgolion cynradd ataf primary schools a few weeks ago. I am still ychydig wythnosau yn ôl. Rwy‘n dal i aros waiting to receive them and look forward to i‘w derbyn ac edrychaf ymlaen at eu cael getting them from her. ganddi.

We have published a comprehensive Rydym wedi cyhoeddi cynllun gwella improvement plan for the whole of the Welsh cynhwysfawr ar gyfer cyfundrefn addysg education system, which makes it clear what Cymru gyfan, sy‘n ei gwneud yn glir beth yw our responsibilities are as Government, as ein cyfrifoldebau fel Llywodraeth, yn ogystal well as those of the consortia, local â rhai‘r consortia, awdurdodau lleol ac authorities and schools. That is very much ysgolion. Mae hynny‘n canolbwyntio‘n fawr focused on meeting the international iawn ar ateb yr heriau rhyngwladol y soniodd challenges that my colleague the Member for fy nghyd-Aelod dros Ganol Caerdydd Cardiff Central spoke about, and on amdanynt, ac ar nodi mewn ffyrdd clir iawn y identifying in very clear ways the kinds of mathau o arfer gorau y byddem yn disgwyl best practice that we would expect to see eu gweld yn cael ei gyflwyno. Lle mae being rolled out. Where schools are adopting ysgolion yn mabwysiadu arfer gorau, rydym best practice, we are seeing transformation in yn gweld perfformiad yn cael ei drawsnewid. performance. Some Members made reference Cyfeiriodd rhai Aelodau at gymorth i to the issue of family support, which is key. deuluoedd, sy‘n allweddol. Mae rhai ysgolion Some schools are making use of the pupil yn defnyddio‘r grant amddifadedd disgyblion deprivation grant to ensure that family i sicrhau bod trefniadau cymorth i deuluoedd support arrangements are in place to assist in ar waith i helpu i sicrhau gwelliant the development of overall improvement. The cyffredinol. Nododd yr Aelod dros Ganol Member for Cardiff Central also rightly said Caerdydd hefyd, a hynny‘n gwbl gywir, ein that we are committed to and are rolling out bod wedi ymrwymo i ddyblu‘r cymorth i the doubling of support on Flying Start, Dechrau‘n Deg a‘n bod yn cyflwyno hynny, a which will give pre-school support to so fydd yn rhoi cymorth cyn ysgol i gymaint o many young people across Wales in our bobl ifanc ledled Cymru yn ein cymunedau poorest communities. tlotaf.

Reference was made by the Liberal Democrat Cyfeiriodd llefarydd y Democratiaid spokesperson to the practitioner panel. It has Rhyddfrydol at y panel o ymarferwyr. Mae now had a number of meetings. It has been a wedi cyfarfod sawl gwaith bellach. Bu‘n valuable resource to me and to officials in adnodd gwerthfawr imi ac i swyddogion er testing ideas and getting engagement from mwyn profi syniadau ac ymgysylltu â‘r the profession. I have no problem with proffesiwn. Nid oes gennyf broblem o ran sharing information about discussions that rhannu gwybodaeth am drafodaethau sydd have gone on within that. wedi mynd rhagddynt o fewn y panel hwnnw.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd asked specific questions Gofynnodd Llyr Huws Gruffydd gwestiynau about Welsh-medium provision within the penodol am ddarpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg o consortia; that is a genuine issue about which fewn y consortia; mae hynny‘n broblem I have some concerns myself. I endorse what wirioneddol y mae gennyf rai pryderon fy he said and discussed it with UCAC earlier hun yn ei chylch. Cefnogaf yr hyn a this week. ddywedodd a thrafodais hynny gydag UCAC yn gynharach yr wythnos hon.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas asked me whether I Gofynnodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas imi a allwn could guarantee that the regional consortia roi sicrwydd y byddai‘r consortia rhanbarthol would ensure additional support for yn rhoi cymorth ychwanegol ar gyfer additional learning needs. I do not think that I anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Ni chredaf y

107 07/11/2012 can give that guarantee. Nothing in the gallaf roi‘r sicrwydd hwnnw. Wrth greu creation of regional consortia removes the consortia rhanbarthol nid oes dim yn dileu responsibilities of local authorities to deliver cyfrifoldebau awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu yn in this area as in every other area. However, y maes hwn fel ym mhob maes arall. Fodd their focus at the moment is on the bynnag, maent yn canolbwyntio ar hyn o development of school improvement bryd ar ddatblygu gwasanaethau gwella services. They are making progress, but they ysgolion. Maent yn gwneud cynnydd, ond need to make progress faster. There will mae angen iddynt wneud cynnydd yn gynt. come a time, during the lifetime of this Daw amser, yn ystod oes y Cynulliad hwn, Assembly, when we will have to look very pan fydd yn rhaid inni edrych yn ofalus iawn carefully at the delivery by local government ar y modd y mae llywodraeth leol yn darparu of education services, and whether their co- gwasanaethau addysg, a pha un a yw eu operation in regional consortia has worked. If cydweithrediad mewn consortia rhanbarthol it has not, then there may be other models wedi gweithio. Os nad ydyw, yna efallai y that we will need to look at, for ensuring bydd angen inni edrych ar fodelau eraill, er support for schools. We are open to that, and mwyn sicrhau cymorth i ysgolion. Rydym yn I have made it clear in the Chamber before agored i ystyried hynny, ac rwyf wedi ei that there are a number of other models that gwneud yn glir yn y Siambr o‘r blaen fod we could adopt, and I have not ruled out nifer o fodelau eraill y gallem eu support for those. mabwysiadu, ac nid wyf wedi‘u diystyru.

In terms of today‘s debate, we will support O ran y ddadl heddiw, byddwn yn cefnogi amendments 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 and 8 and we will gwelliannau 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 ac 8 a byddwn yn oppose amendments 3, 5, 9 and 10. We are gwrthwynebu gwelliannau 3, 5, 9 a 10. committed to raising standards in education Rydym yn ymrwymedig i godi safonau in Wales. We have a programme that is fully mewn addysg yng Nghymru. Mae gennym under way. I appreciate that some parties in raglen sy‘n mynd rhagddi. Sylweddolaf nad this Chamber do not support aspects of that oes rhai pleidiau yn y Siambr hon yn cefnogi programme, but we are determined to raise agweddau ar y rhaglen honno, ond rydym yn standards. benderfynol o godi safonau.

Simon Thomas: Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a Simon Thomas: I thank everyone who gyfrannodd at y ddadl, a diolch yn arbennig contributed to the debate, and thank them am gael dadl gymesur, resymol. Nid pwrpas particularly for a measured, rational debate. It y ddadl, fel y dywedais ar y cychwyn, oedd was not the purpose of the debate to cast bwrw bai, ond yn hytrach edrych yn ofalus ar blame, but to look carefully at this aspect of yr agwedd hon ar ddelifro gan y Llywodraeth delivery by Government, which we felt was a oedd, yn ein barn ni, yn wan mewn rhannau weak in parts of Wales. The debate has o Gymru. Mae‘r ddadl wedi cefnogi‘r hyn supported our preconceptions, and it has been roeddem yn ei dybio, ac rwy‘n credu iddi fod valuable therefore to shed light on this, yn werthfawr i daflu goleuni ar hyn, gan ei because it is such an important issue; the fod mor bwysig; mae‘r Llywodraeth ei hun Government itself has said that regional wedi dweud mai‘r consortia rhanbarthol yw‘r consortia are the key method for improving ffordd allweddol o wella cyrhaeddiad ymlith attainment among our children and young ein plant a‘n pobl ifanc. people.

Rwyf eisiau cloi drwy fynd dros rai o‘r I want to conclude by rehearsing some of the dadleuon sydd wedi‘u gwneud gan Aelodau, arguments put forward by Members and to a nodi‘n glir lle mae Plaid Cymru yn sefyll make clear where we in Plaid Cymru stand arnynt. Roedd Aled yn ddigon clir, fel ni, ei on these. Aled was quite clear, as we are, that fod yn cefnogi consortia mewn egwyddor, he supports the consortia in principle, and ond ei fod am eu gweld yn gweithio. Mae wants to see them working. He had a point— ganddo bwynt—ac mae pwynt yng there is a point in the Liberal Democrat ngwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol— amendment—that there is a need to consider ynglŷn â‘r angen i ystyried canllawiau stronger guidelines for using the pupil

108 07/11/2012 cryfach ar gyfer defnyddio‘r grant deprivation grant. There is plenty of evidence amddifadedd disgyblion. Mae digon o from England that that grant has not been dystiolaeth yn Lloegr nad yw‘r grant hwnnw used perfectly, by any means, and we need to wedi‘i ddefnyddio‘n berffaith, o bell ffordd, learn lessons quickly in Wales, to ensure that ac mae gofyn inni ddysgu gwersi yn fuan yng we do not waste that resource. The Minister Nghymru, er mwyn sicrhau nad ydym yn himself has reported on a number of gwastraffu‘r adnodd hwnnw. Er bod y occasions how that grant is used, but we need Gweinidog wedi adrodd sawl gwaith yma sut to be clearer and more focused on those mae‘r grant yn cael ei ddefnyddio, mae angen issues. inni fod yn glir a ffocysu‘n fwy ar y materion hynny.

Roedd Angela yn iawn i‘n hatgoffa am gam Angela appropriately reminded us of the gwag y Llywodraeth mewn perthynas â mistake made by the Government on bandio; rwy‘n cytuno ag Angela yn hynny o banding, and I agree with her in that regard. I beth. Gallwn gytuno ar ddau o welliannau‘r could agree to two of the Conservatives‘ Ceidwadwyr, ond nid ydym yn cytuno ar amendments, but not to amendment 10, welliant 10, sy‘n sôn am eu harolwg o which mentions their survey of schools. I ysgolion. Rwy‘n derbyn yr arolwg, ac yn accept the survey, and that headteachers feel derbyn bod prifathrawon yn teimlo felly, ond that way, but I do not think that that is nid wyf yn meddwl ei fod yn arolwg y gallwn something that we as an Assembly could ei gymeradwyo fel Cynulliad mewn approve, which is what you are asking us to gwelliant, sef yr hyn rydych yn gofyn inni‘i do. I will not give in to that particular wneud. Felly, ni fyddaf yn ildio i‘r temtasiwn temptation this afternoon. Angela accepted hwnnw. Derbyniodd Angela y pwynt a the point that I made, that any delays in this wneuthum i, bod unrhyw oedi yn y system yn system will have an impact on children. effeithio ar y plant, a dyna‘r hyn rydym yn Structures, at the end of the day, are neither canolbwyntio arno yma. Ar ddiwedd y dydd, here nor there for me, and nor, I hope for the nid yw strwythurau ddim yma nac acw i mi, Minister; this is, rather, an issue for pupils. nac i‘r Gweinidog, gobeithio; yn hytrach, mater i‘r plant yw hwn.

Roedd Jocelyn Davies yn ddigon clir bod Jocelyn Davies was quite clear in her bandio yn gallu arwain at gylch o ddirywiad comments that banding can lead to a vicious o fewn ysgolion, ac roedd yn ein hatgoffa circle in schools, and she reminded us that, if mai cynghrair sydd gennym, i bob pwrpas, os we do not have a system where the lower nad oes gennym system lle mae‘r bandiau bands are emptied, to all intents and purposes isaf yn gwagio. Nid yw Plaid Cymru yn you have a league table. Plaid Cymru does cytuno â hynny. Dyna pam y dywedais, wrth not agree with that, which is why I said that agor y ddadl, bod yr ysgolion hyn yn cael eu the schools are considered to be failing hystyried yn ysgolion sy‘n methu. Nid fi sy‘n schools. I am not the one calling them that—I eu disgrifio felly—defnyddiais y geiriau ‗so did use the words ‗so-called‘. I remember, on called‘. Rwy‘n cofio, pan gyhoeddwyd y the publication of bands, that parents and bandiau, bod rhieni a disgyblion yn dweud teachers were saying that their schools were bod eu hysgolion yn methu oherwydd y band failing, because of the banding. That was the y‘u rhoddwyd ynddo. Dyna oedd y si ar yr word in the playground, if you like, and that iard, ac mae hynny‘n realiti. is the reality.

Atgoffodd Jocelyn ni am y laptops yn Tor- Jocelyn also reminded us of the laptops in faen, ac mae‘n ddiddorol bod y Llywodraeth Torfaen. It is interesting, is it not, that this hon wedi caniatáu i bedair gwaith yn fwy o Government allowed four times more funds arian gael ei wario ar laptops sydd mewn to be spent on laptops that are now in a warws yn Nhor-faen nag ar y cynllun peilot warehouse in Torfaen than on the pilot laptop laptops dan y Llywodraeth flaenorol. Yn sicr, scheme under the previous Government? nid yw Plaid Cymru wedi colli ffydd yn y Certainly, Plaid Cymru has not lost faith in

109 07/11/2012 ffaith bod laptops i blant—yn enwedig o the fact that laptops for pupils, particularly in ardaloedd difreintiedig—yn allweddol i deprived areas, are crucial in delivering ddelifro gwelliant yn eu cyrhaeddiad. improved educational achievement.

Roedd Jenny Rathbone yn ffocysu ar Jenny Rathbone focused on families and deuluoedd a chefnogaeth deuluol. Cytunaf yn family support, and I agree entirely with that. llwyr â hynny—dywedais hynny wrth agor y I made that point in opening the debate: we ddadl. Mae‘n rhaid inni beidio â cholli ffocws cannot lose focus on the need for that close ar yr angen am y gefnogaeth agos honno ar support for families. That support can be deuluoedd. Mae‘n gefnogaeth sy‘n gallu expensive, but it pays for itself in terms of the costio‘n ddrud, ond mae‘n gefnogaeth sy‘n improvements made in educational talu ar ei chanfed o ran plant yn gwella. achievement. I agree with Jenny‘s comments; Cytunaf â sylwadau Jenny; mae‘n dda clywed it is also good to hear positive examples of enghreifftiau da hefyd o sut mae ysgolion yn how schools organise themselves as lifelong trefnu‘u hunain fel canolfannau dysgu gydol learning centres, for example. oes, fel petai.

5.15 p.m.

Soniodd Rhodri Glyn a Mark Isherwood yn Rhodri Glyn and Mark Isherwood benodol am blant ag anghenion arbennig, specifically mentioned children with special neu, dylwn i ddweud, disgyblion ag needs, or, I should say, pupils with special anghenion arbennig. Bu i Rhodri Glyn needs. Rhodri Glyn focused particularly on ffocysu‘n arbennig ar addysg cyfrwng Welsh-medium education. I have also found Cymraeg. Rwyf innau hefyd wedi ffeindio yn in the constituency work that I have carried y gwaith etholaethol rwyf yn ei wneud bod out that there is a real problem with autism problem fawr o ran awtistiaeth a dyslecsia, yn and dyslexia, especially in terms of support arbennig o ran cael cefnogaeth yn y cyd- such as speech and language therapy for destun hwnnw, megis therapydd lleferydd ar children in that situation. It is important that gyfer plant. Mae‘n bwysig ein bod yn we acknowledge that. I accept that the cydnabod hynny. Rwy‘n derbyn nad yw‘r Government cannot make guarantees; I will Llywodraeth yn gallu gwarantu pethau; dof i come to the Minister‘s comments in due time. at sylwadau‘r Gweinidog yn fuan.

Mae Llyr Huws Gruffydd yn gywir i Llyr Huws Gruffydd is right to underline the danlinellu potensial y consortia, a hynny ar potential of the consortia to redirect resources gyfer arallgyfeirio adnoddau o fiwrocratiaeth from bureaucracy to the classroom. The i‘r dosbarth. Y broblem ar hyn o bryd, fodd problem at present, however, is that we have bynnag, yw nad oes gennym dystiolaeth o no evidence of that. I accept that it is at an hynny. Rwy‘n derbyn ei bod yn eithaf early stage, but we want to see that evidence. cynnar, ond rydym eisiau gweld y dystiolaeth I have met teachers of Welsh as a second honno. Rwyf hefyd wedi cwrdd ag athrawon language from the Cardiff area, and I have Cymraeg ail iaith o gylch Caerdydd, ac rwyf also heard the same issues that Llyr outlined, innau wedi clywed yr un peth ag yr that there is a significant shortage of amlinellodd Llyr, sef bod diffyg darpariaeth provision in this area. I was pleased to hear sylweddol yn y cynllun hwn. Roeddwn yn that the Minister has acknowledged that falch clywed bod y Gweinidog yn cydnabod problem and that it is something that we will y broblem honno, a‘i fod yn rhywbeth y bydd need to address. yn rhaid inni ei ystyried.

Roedd y Gweinidog yn glir wrth ateb, ac The Minister was clear in his response and I rwy‘n ddiolchgar am ei ateb. Rwy‘n edrych am grateful for that response. I look forward ymlaen at weld adolygiad cyn y Nadolig ac to a review before Christmas and I hope that rwy‘n gobeithio y bydd datganiad gan y there will be a statement from the Minister on Gweinidog ar hynny. Credaf fod angen that. I think that we need confirmation that

110 07/11/2012 cadarnhad bod y £10,000 hwn yn cyrraedd this £10,000 is reaching every school that pob ysgol sydd ei angen ar hyn o bryd, a needs it at the moment, and we also need hefyd bod gennym ddealltwriaeth well o sut confirmation that we have a better mae‘r grant amddifadedd yn cael ei understanding of how the pupil deprivation ddefnyddio. grant is being used.

Gofynnodd y Gweinidog yn olaf a ydyw‘n The Minister finally asked whether he is gyfrifol am yr holl bethau sy‘n digwydd yn responsible for everything that happens in our ein hysgolion. Nac ydyw; dyna pam mae schools. No, he is not; that is why we have gennym ni awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, local education authorities. However, I have rhaid imi ddweud hyn: ein job ni yw dal y to say this: our job is to hold the Minister to Gweinidog i gyfrif am y pethau y mae wedi‘u account for the things that he has pledged in haddo i‘r Siambr. Mae wedi addo y bydd y the Chamber. He did pledge that these consortia yn weithredol, a dyna pam rydym consortia would be operational and that is yma heddiw. why we are here today.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cwestiwn yw a The Deputy Presiding Officer: The ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A question is that the motion without oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod amendment be agreed. Are there any gwrthwynebiad, felly gohiriaf y pleidleisio ar objections? I see that there are, therefore I yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. defer all voting on this item until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.

Dadl Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru Welsh Liberal Democrats Debate

Cyllideb Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru The Welsh Ambulance Service Budget

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Rwyf wedi dethol selected amendments 1, 4 and 7 in the name gwelliannau 1, 4 a 7 yn enw Jane Hutt, of Jane Hutt, amendments 2, 3 and 5 in the gwelliannau 2, 3 a 5 yn enw Aled Roberts, name of Aled Roberts, amendment 6 in the gwelliant 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, a name of Jocelyn Davies, and amendments 8, gwelliannau 8, 9 a 10 yn enw William 9 and 10 in the name of William Graham. If Graham. Os derbynnir gwelliant 4, bydd amendment 4 is moved amendment 5 will be gwelliant 5 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Os deselected. If amendment 6 is agreed derbynnir gwelliant 6 caiff gwelliant 7 ei amendment 7 will be deselected. ddad-ddethol.

Cynnig NDM5085 Aled Roberts Motion NDM5085 Aled Roberts

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn nodi: 1. Notes that: a) nad yw Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd a) the Welsh Health Specialised Services Arbenigol Cymru, ar 31 Hydref 2012, wedi Committee has not agreed a budget with the cytuno ar gyllideb gyda Gwasanaeth Wales Ambulance Service for the 2012/13

111 07/11/2012

Ambiwlans Cymru ar gyfer blwyddyn financial year, as of 31/10/2012; ariannol 2012-13; b) nad yw Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru yn b) the Welsh Ambulance Service is unable to gallu paratoi cynlluniau gwasanaeth priodol prepare proper service plans due to a lack of oherwydd diffyg eglurder ariannol; ac financial clarity; and c) am y pedwar mis diwethaf yn olynol, nid c) for the last four successive months the yw Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru wedi Welsh Ambulance Service has failed to meet cyflawni ei darged Cymru gyfan lle mae its all-Wales target of 65% of Category A ambiwlansys yn ymateb o fewn wyth munud i (immediately life-threatening) calls receiving 65% o alwadau Categori A (lle mae bywyd an ambulance response time within 8 yn y fantol). minutes.

2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 2. Calls on the Welsh Government to: a) sicrhau bod Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau a) ensure that the Welsh Health Specialised Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru yn cytuno ar Services Committee agrees a budget with the gyllideb gydag Ymddiriedolaeth Gwasanaeth Welsh Ambulance Service Trust for the Ambiwlans Cymru ar gyfer blwyddyn 2012/13 year as a matter of urgency; ariannol 2012-13 fel mater o frys; b) amlinellu rôl Ymddiriedolaeth b) outline the role of the Wales Ambulance Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru o ran ad- Service Trust with regard to service drefnu’r gwasanaeth a’r effaith y gallai’r ad- reconfiguration and the impact that drefnu hwnnw ei chael ar eu cyllideb a’u reconfiguration could have on their budget perfformiad; and performance; c) asesu ar fyrder y cymorth sydd ar gael i c) urgently assess the support available to the Wasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru fel y gall Wales Ambulance Service so they can meet gyrraedd ei darged amser ymateb o 65% y their agreed 65% response time targets; and cytunwyd arno; a d) adolygu’r trefniadau ar fyrder lle mae d) urgently review arrangements whereby the Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Welsh Health Specialised Services Cymru, sef pwyllgor sy’n cynnwys Committee, a committee comprising cynrychiolwyr o’r holl Fyrddau Iechyd Lleol, representatives of all the Local Health yn gorfod cytuno ar gyllideb ar gyfer Boards, has to agree the budget for another ymddiriedolaeth arall. trust.

Kirsty Williams: I move the motion. Kirsty Williams: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

I will also be moving the subsequent Byddaf hefyd yn cynnig y diwygiadau amendments to that motion that were tabled dilynol i‘r cynnig hwnnw a gyflwynwyd yn in the name of Aled Roberts. enw Aled Roberts.

Over the years, this Chamber has been the Dros y blynyddoedd, bu llawer o ddadleuon setting for many debates regarding the yn y Siambr hon ynghylch y gwasanaeth ambulance service in Wales and, today, the ambiwlans yng Nghymru a, heddiw, nid yw Welsh Liberal Democrats make no apology Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn for bringing this important subject to the ymddiheuro am ddod â‘r mater pwysig hwn Chamber once again. An ambulance service gerbron y Siambr unwaith eto. Yn aml, that is able to respond quickly, with well- gwasanaeth ambiwlans sy‘n gallu ymateb yn skilled, motivated staff, is often the crucial gyflym, gyda staff medrus, uchel eu first stage in a response to a medical cymhelliant, yw‘r cam cyntaf hanfodol mewn

112 07/11/2012 emergency. That initial response by the ymateb i argyfwng meddygol. Gall yr ymateb ambulance service and its paramedics can cychwynnol hwnnw gan y gwasanaeth mean the difference between life and death ambiwlans a‘i barafeddygon olygu‘r for a patient. After all, you can have the best gwahaniaeth rhwng bywyd a marwolaeth i trauma teams in the world, with all the latest glaf. Wedi‘r cyfan, gallwch gael y timau equipment, waiting in your accident and trawma gorau yn y byd, gyda‘r holl offer emergency departments, but if that patient diweddaraf, yn aros yn eich adrannau has not arrived at that A&E department in damweiniau ac achosion brys, ond os nad those crucial early minutes of an episode, it yw‘r claf hwnnw wedi cyrraedd yr adran can often be too late for them to do anything. damweiniau ac achosion brys honno yn ystod y munudau cynnar hollbwysig hynny o achos brys, yn aml gall fod yn rhy hwyr iddynt wneud unrhyw beth.

Those minutes waiting for that ambulance to Rhaid mai‘r munudau hynny yn aros i‘r arrive must be the longest minutes in the life gwasanaeth ambiwlans gyrraedd yw‘r of a patient and their relatives. Those 8.5 munudau hiraf ym mywyd claf a‘u minutes must sometimes seem like 8.5 years. perthnasau. Rhaid bod yr 8.5 munud We know what a good service should look weithiau‘n teimlo‘n 8.5 mlynedd. Gwyddom like, but, too often, that is not what Welsh sut beth y dylai gwasanaeth da fod, ond, yn patients get. Delays in responses are often the rhy aml, nid dyna‘r hyn a gaiff cleifion yng case and staff in the ambulance service are Nghymru. Ceir oedi mewn ymatebion yn aml often demoralised. They are often racing to ac mae staff yn y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn calls many miles away from their usual aml wedi digalonni. Maent yn aml yn brysio i practices. In my constituency, I have cases ymateb i alwadau filltiroedd lawer i ffwrdd where the ambulance based in Ystradgynlais o‘u practisau arferol. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae has been asked to respond to calls in areas as gennyf achosion lle y gofynnwyd i‘r far afield as Hay-on-Wye and Newbridge-on- ambiwlans yn Ystradgynlais ymateb i Wye. That is the equivalent of a citizen of alwadau mewn ardaloedd mor bell i ffwrdd Cardiff ringing 999 and waiting for the â‘r Gelli Gandryll a‘r Bontnewydd-ar-Wy. ambulance to arrive from Llanelli. I suspect Mae hynny‘n cyfateb i ddinesydd yng that a resident of Cardiff would not put up Nghaerdydd yn ffonio 999 ac yn aros i‘r with it, and I do not see why my constituents ambiwlans gyrraedd o Lanelli. Ni chredaf y should either. The crews do the best that they byddai trigolion Caerdydd yn goddef hynny, can, often putting their own lives at risk to try ac ni welaf pam y dylai fy etholwyr innau to respond to a call. They are left frustrated, oddef hynny ychwaith. Mae‘r criwiau yn often holding on to patients in ambulances, or gwneud eu gorau, yn aml yn peryglu eu standing by them in corridors of A&E bywydau eu hunain i geisio ymateb i alwad. departments, because they are unable to hand Fe‘u gadewir yn teimlo‘n rhwystredig, yn over their care to A&E staff. aml yn gorfod cadw cleifion mewn ambiwlansys, neu‘n aros gyda hwy yng nghoridorau adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, am na allant eu trosglwyddo i ofal staff yr adrannau hynny.

The Government, in its delivery document, Mae‘r Llywodraeth, yn ei dogfen ynghylch identifies response times to ambulance calls cyflawni, yn nodi bod amseroedd ymateb i and waits at A&E as some of the key alwadau ambiwlans ac amseroedd aros mewn indicators of whether the Government is adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn delivering on behalf of the people of Wales. rhai o‘r dangosyddion allweddol sy‘n dynodi After all, as the First Minister says, this a yw‘r Llywodraeth yn cyflawni dros bobl Government is all about delivery. The reality Cymru. Wedi‘r cyfan, fel y dywed y Prif is that in the last nine months, which are the Weinidog, cyflawni yw prif nod y most recent figures available, the Llywodraeth hon. Y gwir yw i‘r Government has met its response time target Llywodraeth, yn y naw mis diwethaf, sef y

113 07/11/2012 of reaching 65% of calls—only 65% of ffigurau mwyaf diweddar sydd ar gael, calls—within 8 minutes in only four of the gyflawni ei darged amser ymateb o gyrraedd last nine months. It has missed that target for o 65% o alwadau—dim ond 65% o five months. Actually, it has missed that alwadau—o fewn 8 munud mewn dim ond target for the last four months: four months pedwar o‘r naw mis diwethaf. Mae wedi that are summer months, which is not the methu‘r targed hwnnw am bum mis. Mewn time of year that ambulance crews and the gwirionedd, mae wedi methu‘r targed hwnnw ambulance service are under the greatest am y pedwar mis diwethaf: pedwar mis yn pressure. ystod misoedd yr haf, nad yw‘n adeg o‘r flwyddyn pan fo criwiau ambiwlans a‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans o dan y pwysau mwyaf.

Often, I am told that we cannot expect Yn aml, dywedir wrthyf na allwn ddisgwyl anything better in Wales, because we are a dim byd gwell yng Nghymru, a hithau‘n wlad rural country, but, actually, if one looks at the wledig, ond, mewn gwirionedd, os edrychir figures of individual areas, some rural areas ar ffigurau ardaloedd unigol, mae rhai fare better than others. Pembrokeshire has ardaloedd gwledig yn gwneud yn well nag some of the better response times in Wales eraill. Mae gan sir Benfro rai o‘r amseroedd and areas such as Blaenau Gwent have some ymateb gorau yng Nghymru ac mae gan of the worst. In Blaenau Gwent‘s case, if you ardaloedd fel Blaenau Gwent rai o‘r ring an ambulance, only 53% of the time will amseroedd gwaethaf. Yn achos Blaenau it get to you in 8 minutes—that is just over Gwent, os ffoniwch am ambiwlans, dim ond half; half the time you will wait longer. 53% o‘r amser y bydd yn eich cyrraedd o fewn 8 munud—mae hynny ychydig dros hanner; hanner yr amser y byddwch yn aros yn hwy.

That 65% target is already significantly lower Mae‘r targed hwnnw o 65% eisoes dipyn yn than the targets that are set for the ambulance is na‘r targedau a osodir ar gyfer yr trusts in England and Scotland. I wonder ymddiriedolaethau ambiwlans yn Lloegr a‘r what the justification is for that. If an Alban. Tybed beth yw‘r cyfiawnhad dros ambulance needs to arrive within 8 minutes hynny. Os oes angen i ambiwlans gyrraedd o 75% of the time in England and Scotland, fewn 8 munud 75% o‘r amser yn Lloegr a‘r why is that not the case for our patients? Do Alban, pam nad yw hynny‘n wir i‘n cleifion Welsh patients not deserve a similar ni? Onid yw cleifion Cymru yn haeddu response? Actually, no area of Wales would ymateb tebyg? A dweud y gwir, ni fyddai reach the 75% target, if that was applied to unrhyw ardal yng Nghymru yn cyrraedd y this country—nowhere in Wales. targed o 75%, os oedd hwnnw‘n berthnasol i‘r wlad hon—dim unman yng Nghymru.

Lost ambulance hours, which is part of the Mae nifer yr oriau ambiwlans a gollir, sy‘n cause of the difficulty in meeting response rhan o‘r rheswm dros yr anhawster i times, are the highest that they have ever gyflawni‘r amseroedd ymateb, yn uwch nag been. Between January 2011 and February erioed. Rhwng mis Ionawr 2011 a mis 2012, ambulances spent 821 days outside Chwefror 2012, treuliodd ambiwlansys 821 hospitals, waiting to transfer their patients. diwrnod y tu allan i ysbytai, yn aros i That is the equivalent of 2.3 years spent drosglwyddo eu cleifion. Mae hynny‘n waiting outside. In the Royal Gwent Hospital cyfateb i 2.3 o flynyddoedd a dreulir yn aros alone, ambulances spent 125 days outside the y tu allan. Yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yn A&E department, waiting to transfer their unig, treuliodd ambiwlansys 125 diwrnod y patients. tu allan i‘r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, yn aros i drosglwyddo eu cleifion.

There are some very real challenges facing Mae rhai heriau gwirioneddol yn wynebu

114 07/11/2012 the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust, Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau and the solution, of course, does not lie solely Ambiwlans Cymru, ac nid yw‘r ateb, wrth within the hands of the ambulance gwrs, yn nwylo‘r sefydliad ambiwlansys ei organisation itself. The issue around lost hun yn unig. Mae‘r broblem o ran oriau a hours is something that the NHS family as a gollir yn rhywbeth y mae angen i‘r GIG whole needs to solve. A&E beds need to be cyfan ei datrys. Mae angen i welyau brys gael released by transferring patients to wards. eu rhyddhau drwy drosglwyddo cleifion i Wards need beds by releasing patients into wardiau. Mae angen i welyau mewn wardiau the community, and we need community gael eu rhyddhau drwy ryddhau cleifion i‘r services for those patients to be released into. gymuned, ac mae angen gwasanaethau There is a vicious circle. However, of course, cymunedol er mwyn rhyddhau‘r cleifion the ambulance service, I would argue, has not hynny iddynt. Mae‘n gylch dieflig. Fodd been helped in its ability to deliver on the bynnag, wrth gwrs, nid yw‘r ffraeo ynglŷn Government‘s own targets, by the wrangling â‘r gyllideb wedi helpu‘r gwasanaeth over the budget. ambiwlans i gyflawni targedau‘r Llywodraeth ei hun, fe dybiwn i.

The reality is that, before this motion was Y gwir yw, cyn i‘r cynnig hwn gael ei tabled, there was no agreed budget for this gyflwyno, na chytunwyd ar gyllideb financial year for the Welsh ambulance trust. ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans Cymru ar gyfer y I asked the First Minister about it prior to the flwyddyn ariannol hon. Holais y Prif half term holiday. I do not know what the Weinidog amdani cyn gwyliau hanner tymor. First Minister keeps in his fancy red files, but Ni wn beth mae‘r Prif Weinidog yn ei gadw it truly is not the answer to the problems, or yn ei ffeiliau crand coch, ond yn sicr nid the answer to the questions. He simply was ydynt yn cynnwys yr ateb i‘r problemau, na‘r not aware that this situation existed. He said ateb i‘r cwestiynau. Nid oedd yn ymwybodol that we were in the middle of budget bod y sefyllfa hon yn bodoli. Dywedodd ein negotiations, and it would all be solved as a bod yng nghanol trafodaethau ynglŷn â‘r part of that, but we are talking about this gyllideb, a byddai‘r cyfan yn cael ei ddatrys financial year—a budget that was agreed by fel rhan o hynny, ond sôn am y flwyddyn the Assembly back in December. However, it ariannol gyfredol yr ydym—cyllideb y has taken until the eighth month of the cytunwyd arni gan y Cynulliad yn ôl ym mis financial year for there to be a final agreed Rhagfyr. Fodd bynnag, mae wedi cymryd tan settlement. The Minister is shaking her head, yr wythfed mis o‘r flwyddyn ariannol cyn and I would be very grateful if, in her inni gael setliad terfynol y cytunwyd arno. contribution, she would explain the situation. Mae‘r Gweinidog yn ysgwyd ei phen, a If the Minister is convinced that such a byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe bai, yn ystod budget existed in its entirety, I would be very ei chyfraniad, yn esbonio‘r sefyllfa. Os yw‘r grateful to hear what the figure is, because to Gweinidog yn argyhoeddedig bod cyllideb date nobody has been able to supply that o‘r fath yn bodoli yn ei chyfanrwydd, figure. Perhaps she could also explain, if byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn o glywed beth there was such a budget, why there was yw‘r ffigur, oherwydd hyd yn hyn nid oes subsequently an announcement a day after neb wedi llwyddo i ddarparu‘r ffigur hwnnw. this motion was tabled that a final budget had Efallai y gallai hefyd egluro, pe bai cyllideb been agreed and reached. Perhaps the o‘r fath, pam bod cyhoeddiad ddiwrnod ar ôl difference lies in that little word, ‗core‘, does i‘r cynnig hwn gael ei gyflwyno fod cytundeb it not? Perhaps we can understand better a ynglŷn â chyllideb derfynol. Ai‘r gair bach, little later on what ‗core‘ means. ‗craidd‘ yw‘r gwahaniaeth tybed? Efallai y byddwn yn deall yn well ychydig yn nes ymlaen beth yw ystyr ‗craidd‘.

The result of this delay in agreeing a budget Oherwydd yr oedi hwn cyn cytuno ar has been the laying off and the restriction of gyllideb bu‘n rhaid diswyddo criwiau overtime for ambulance crews as the ambiwlans a chyfyngu ar oramser wrth i‘r organisation looked to protect its financial sefydliad geisio diogelu ei sefyllfa ariannol.

115 07/11/2012 position. After all, if you do not know how Wedi‘r cyfan, os na wyddoch faint sydd much you have to spend, you have to start gennych i‘w wario, rhaid ichi ddechrau making some cuts in order to protect that gwneud rhai toriadau er mwyn diogelu‘r financial position. It is impossible to plan and sefyllfa ariannol honno. Mae‘n amhosibl run a service without knowing your final cynllunio a rhedeg gwasanaeth heb wybod budget. The difference between ‗core‘ and beth yw eich cyllideb derfynol. Mae‘r ‗extras‘ is, I believe, a false one. We are not gwahaniaeth rhwng ‗craidd‘ a ‗phethau talking about added extras, or perhaps new ychwanegol‘ yn un ffug, yn fy marn i. Nid bits of kit and equipment; we are talking ydym yn sôn am bethau ychwanegol, nac about the budget that keeps ambulance crews offer a chyfarpar newydd efallai; sôn yr and ambulances on our roads. The inability of ydym am y gyllideb sy‘n cadw criwiau the ambulance trust to do so was reflected in ambiwlans ac ambiwlansys ar ein ffyrdd. a flurry of media stories by whistleblowing Cafod anallu yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans i from within the organisation, from wneud hynny ei adlewyrchu mewn llu o ambulance crews who were sick and tired of straeon yn y cyfryngau gan rai a oedd yn what they had to face. Is that really the way chwythu‘r chwiban o fewn y sefydliad, gan to run an emergency service in this day and griwiau ambiwlans a oedd wedi hen syrffedu age? I do not believe that it is. ar y sefyllfa yr oeddent yn ei hwynebu. Ai dyna‘r ffordd y dylai gwasanaeth brys gael ei redeg yn yr oes sydd ohoni? Ni chredaf felly.

This afternoon, we will be supporting Y prynhawn yma, byddwn yn cefnogi amendment 6 proposed by Plaid Cymru, that gwelliant 6 a gynigiwyd gan Blaid Cymru, the Minister needs to take responsibility for fod angen i‘r Gweinidog gymryd cyfrifoldeb setting the Welsh ambulance service‘s am bennu cyllideb gwasanaeth ambiwlans budget. We need to know that the budget is Cymru. Mae angen inni wybod bod y based on a proper assessment of need. We gyllideb yn seiliedig ar asesiad cywir o still do not know what figure was agreed last angen. Ni wyddom o hyd beth oedd y ffigwr Friday, and we do not know whether that y cytunwyd arno ddydd Gwener diwethaf, ac figure will allow the ambulance trust to reach ni wyddom a fydd y ffigur hwnnw yn rhoi the Government‘s own stated targets. We cyfle i‘r ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans gyrraedd simply do not know whether that money is targedau datganedig y Llywodraeth ei hun. adequate, and I would welcome the Yn syml, ni wyddom a yw‘r arian yn Government‘s assurances that it is. ddigonol, a byddwn yn croesawu sicrwydd y Therefore, we will support that amendment. Llywodraeth ei fod yn ddigonol. Felly, We shall also be supporting amendments 8 byddwn yn cefnogi‘r gwelliant hwnnw. and 9 tabled by the Welsh Conservatives, Byddwn hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliannau 8 a 9 which recognise the vital role that the air a gyflwynwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, ambulance service plays within our country sy‘n cydnabod y rôl hollbwysig y mae‘r and the efforts of volunteer fundraisers gwasanaeth ambiwlans awyr yn ei chwarae throughout Wales, which keep that helicopter yn ein gwlad ac ymdrechion codwyr arian in the skies. gwirfoddol ledled Cymru, sy‘n cadw‘r hofrennydd hwnnw yn yr awyr.

We are in the middle of discussions about Rydym yng nghanol trafodaethau ar fundamental changes to the way in which our newidiadau sylfaenol i‘r ffordd y mae ein health services are delivered. Those changes gwasanaethau iechyd yn cael eu darparu. will mean that there will be a greater call on Bydd y newidiadau hynny yn golygu y bydd the service of the Welsh ambulance trust as mwy o alw ar wasanaeth ymddiriedolaeth patients will need to be transferred to centres ambiwlans Cymru gan y bydd angen i of excellence. We need to ensure that the gleifion gael eu trosglwyddo i ganolfannau financial arrangements for the ambulance rhagoriaeth. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod y trust and the way in which those budgets are trefniadau ariannol ar gyfer yr set and monitored are robust before we can ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans a‘r ffordd y caiff allow those changes to go forward. y cyllidebau hynny eu pennu a‘u monitro yn

116 07/11/2012

Otherwise, the shocking stories that we have gadarn cyn y gallwn ganiatáu i‘r newidiadau heard, that we have talked about in the hynny fynd rhagddynt. Fel arall, bydd y Chamber, and that have been reported on by straeon brawychus yr ydym wedi‘u clywed, the ombudsman will only increase in number yr ydym wedi sôn amdanynt yn y Siambr, ac and get worse. Welsh patients deserve a first- y mae‘r ombwdsmon wedi cyflwyno class emergency service response. The adroddiadau arnynt ond yn cynyddu ac yn paramedics and technicians who work on the gwaethygu. Mae cleifion Cymru yn haeddu ambulances deserve to have the tools to allow ymateb gwasanaeth brys o‘r radd flaenaf. them to do the job that they were trained for. Mae‘r parafeddygon a‘r technegwyr sy‘n Let us use this opportunity today to ensure gweithio ar yr ambiwlansys yn haeddu cael that we have a robust system, going forward, yr offer i‘w galluogi i wneud y gwaith y so that we are never faced with a similar maent yn cael eu hyfforddi i‘w wneud. situation again, when an organisation tasked Gadewch inni fachu ar y cyfle hwn heddiw i with such an important job has to wait until sicrhau bod gennym system gadarn, yn y the eighth month of the financial year to dyfodol, fel nad ydym byth yn wynebu know how much money it has to spend. sefyllfa debyg eto, pan fydd sefydliad sy‘n gyfrifol am waith mor bwysig yn gorfod aros tan yr wythfed mis o‘r flwyddyn ariannol i wybod faint o arian sydd ganddo i‘w wario.

Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt Amendment 1—Jane Hutt

Dileu pwynt 1. Delete point 1.

Gwelliant 4—Jane Hutt Amendment 4—Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 2a. Delete sub-point 2a.

Gwelliant 7—Jane Hutt Amendment 7—Jane Hutt

Dileu is-bwynt 2d a rhoi yn ei le: ‘parhau i Delete sub-point 2d. and replace with: asesu’r trefniadau rhwng Pwyllgor ‘continue to assess arrangements between the Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru, y Welsh Health Specialised Services Byrddau Iechyd Lleol ac Ymddiriedolaeth Committee, Local Health Boards and WAST, Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru er mwyn to ensure robust governance and funding sicrhau bod trefniadau llywodraethu ac arrangements remain in place.’ ariannu cadarn yn dal ar waith.’

The Minister for Health and Social Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Services (Lesley Griffiths): I move Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Cynigiaf amendments 1, 4 and 7 in the name of Jane welliannau 1, 4 a 7 yn enw Jane Hutt. Hutt.

Gwelliant 2—Aled Roberts Amendment 2—Aled Roberts

Ym mhwynt 1a, dileu ‘yw’ a rhoi ‘oedd’ yn ei In point 1a delete ‘has’ and replace with le. ‘had’

Gwelliant 3—Aled Roberts Amendment 3—Aled Roberts

Ym mhwynt 1b, dileu ‘yw’ a rhoi ‘oedd’ yn ei In point 1b delete ‘is’ and replace with ‘was’. le.

Kirsty Williams: I move amendments 2 and Kirsty Williams: Cynigiaf welliannau 2 a 3 3 in the name of Aled Roberts. yn enw Aled Roberts.

117 07/11/2012

Gwelliant 6—Jocelyn Davies Amendment 6—Jocelyn Davies

Dileu is-bwynt 2d a rhoi yn ei le: Delete sub-point 2d and replace with:

Galw ar y Gweinidog i gymryd cyfrifoldeb Calls on the Minister to take responsibility dros osod cyllideb Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans for setting the Welsh Ambulance Service’s Cymru. budget.

5.30 p.m.

Elin Jones: I move amendment 6 in the name Elin Jones: Cynigiaf welliant 6 yn enw of Jocelyn Davies. Jocelyn Davies.

I welcome the debate tabled by the Liberal Croesawaf y ddadl a gyflwynwyd gan y Democrats and its timeliness. Most public Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a‘i hamseroldeb. sector organisations would be in complete Byddai‘r rhan fwyaf o sefydliadau yn y panic if their annual budget was not agreed sector cyhoeddus mewn panig llwyr pe na by 2 April, let alone 2 November, but that is baent wedi cael cytundeb ynglŷn â‘u cyllideb what has happened to our ambulance trust flynyddol erbyn 2 Ebrill, heb sôn am 2 this year. There is no doubt that it has created Tachwedd, ond dyna‘r hyn a ddigwyddodd uncertainty and internal turmoil, even, for the i‘n hymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans eleni. Nid ambulance trust to not have an agreed budget oes amheuaeth bod y ffaith nad oedd gan yr until 2 November. The system whereby all ymddriediolaeth ambiwlans gyllideb y health boards have to agree the ambulance cytunwyd arni tan 2 Tachwedd wedi creu trust‘s budget is no longer workable in my ansicrwydd a chynnwrf mewnol, hyd yn oed. view. The motion calls for this system to be Mae‘r system lle mae‘n rhaid i bob un o‘r reviewed immediately. Plaid Cymru‘s byrddau iechyd gytuno ar gyllideb yr amendment 6 goes a step further and ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans bellach yn anymarferol, yn fy marn i. Mae‘r cynnig yn galw am adolygu‘r system hon ar unwaith. Mae gwelliant 6 Plaid Cymru yn mynd gam ymhellach ac

‗Calls on the Minister to take responsibility ‗Yn galw ar y Gweinidog i gymryd for setting the Welsh Ambulance Service‘s cyfrifoldeb dros osod cyllideb Gwasanaeth budget.‘ Ambiwlans Cymru.‘

Here‘s a novel thought for this Assembly and Dyma ichi syniad newydd i‘r Cynulliad hwn for the Minister: why not have a budget line ac i‘r Gweinidog: beth am gael llinell in the Minister‘s annual health budget with a cyllideb yng nghyllideb iechyd flynyddol y specified allocation for the ambulance trust? Gweinidog gyda dyraniad penodol ar gyfer yr That would achieve transparency and ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans? Byddai hynny‘n accountability in one fell swoop. Had that sicrhau tryloywder ac atebolrwydd mewn been the case, the ambulance trust would amrantiad. Pe bai hynny wedi digwydd, have had its budget for 2012-13 agreed by byddai gan yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans our vote in our Plenary in December last gyllideb ar gyfer 2012-13 y cytunwyd arni year, not last week, halfway through its gan ein pleidlais yn ein Cyfarfod Llawn ym financial year. mis Rhagfyr y llynedd, nid yr wythnos diwethaf, hanner ffordd drwy ei blwyddyn ariannol.

The Government‘s amendment 7 indicates Noda gwelliant 7 y Llywodraeth y byddai‘n that it prefers, even after this year‘s wholly well ganddi, hyd yn oed ar ôl y profiad cwbl unsatisfactory experience, to carry on with anfoddhaol eleni, barhau â‘r system

118 07/11/2012 the current system. All I can say is that the bresennol. Y cyfan y gallaf ei ddweud yw managers and paramedics of the ambulance bod rheolwyr a pharafeddygon yr trust deserve a better system. A lack of ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans yn haeddu gwell adequate resources has had an effect on system. Mae prinder adnoddau wedi cael ambulance response times. The ambulance effaith ar amseroedd ymateb ambiwlansys. trust has failed to meet its target of Mae‘r ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans wedi responding to 65% of category A calls within methu â chyrraedd ei tharged o ymateb i 65% eight minutes for the last four months. The o alwadau categori A o fewn wyth munud am ambulance trust corporate risk register, last y pedwar mis diwethaf. Nododd cofrestr risg published on 25 September, stated that the gorfforaethol yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans, increasing demand on 999 services was a gyhoeddwyd ddiwethaf ar 25 Medi, fod y outstripping the resources available to galw cynyddol ar wasanaethau 999 yn fwy achieve the standards. In 2011-12, there was na‘r adnoddau a oedd ar gael i gyrraedd y an 8% increase in the number of 999 safonau. Yn 2011-12, cafwyd cynnydd o 8% emergency calls compared with the previous yn nifer y galwadau 999 brys o gymharu â‘r year. So, the trust itself is clear that demand flwyddyn flaenorol. Felly, mae‘r is outstripping the resources available to ymddiriedolaeth ei hun yn glir bod y galw yn achieve the set standards and has identified fwy na‘r adnoddau sydd ar gael i gyrraedd y this as a risk. safonau a osodwyd ac mae wedi nodi hyn fel risg.

Local information provided by Dengys gwybodaeth leol a ddarparwyd gan whistleblowers within the service in the chwythwyr chwiban yn y gwasanaeth yn Swansea area for the week from 15 October ardal Abertawe ar gyfer yr wythnos o 15 to 22 October clearly illustrates the very real Hydref i 22 Hydref yn glir effaith impact of a lack of resources on local wirioneddol prinder adnoddau ar griwiau ambulance crews and stations. Information ambiwlans lleol a gorsafoedd. Yn ôl yr provided by a paramedic on Monday 15 wybodaeth a ddarparwyd gan barafeddyg October was that Glynneath station was ddydd Llun 15 Hydref roedd gorsaf Glyn- closed night and day, Gorseinon was closed nedd ar gau ddydd a nos, roedd Gorseinon ar during the day, Pontardawe closed during the gau yn ystod y dydd, roedd Pontardawe ar night and that rapid response vehicles were gau yn ystod y nos ac roedd cerbydau ymateb down by two. There was a similar pattern off cyflym yn brin o ddau. Gwelwyd patrwm and on for the rest of the week, including tebyg o gau ac agor am weddill yr wythnos, single manned nights only in Morriston, and gan gynnwys nosweithiau criwiau un one crew day and night in Swansea. parafeddyg yn unig yn Nhreforys, ac un criw ddydd a nos yn Abertawe.

Apparently, these cutbacks were the result of Ymddengys bod y toriadau hyn yn deillio o‘r needing to break-even financially towards the angen i fantoli‘r gyllideb tua diwedd mis end of the month of October. This has had a Hydref. Cafodd hyn effaith wirioneddol ar real effect on response times. On Monday 15 amseroedd ymateb. Ddydd Llun 15 Hydref, October, only 35% of ambulances arrived dim ond 35% o ambiwlansys a gyrhaeddodd within the target time in the Swansea area, o fewn yr amser targed yn ardal Abertawe, o compared with 55% in the whole of Wales on gymharu â 55% dros Gymru gyfan ar y that day—the Welsh Government target, of diwrnod hwnnw—targed Llywodraeth course, is 65%. Cymru, wrth gwrs, yw 65%.

The ambulance trust‘s corporate risk register Nododd cofrestr risg gorfforaethol yr for September, which I have already referred ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans ar gyfer mis to, also identifies several other serious issues Medi, yr wyf eisoes wedi cyfeirio ati, nifer o around excessive turnaround times at broblemau difrifol eraill o ran amseroedd hospitals, leading, in some cases, to delays in trosglwyddo cleifion a oedd yn rhy hir mewn treatment for patients, to delays in the crew ysbytai, gan arwain, mewn rhai achosion, at available for other emergencies and to a lack oedi cyn bod cleifion yn cael triniaeth, oedi o

119 07/11/2012 of time for the training of staff and to ran y criw a oedd ar gael ar gyfer argyfyngau regularly clean vehicles and equipment to a eraill a phrinder amser i hyfforddi staff a satisfactory standard. glanhau cerbydau ac offer yn rheolaidd i safon foddhaol.

If we put all of this into the context of health Os rhoddwn hyn i gyd yng nghyd-destun ad- board service reconfiguration, we know that drefnu gwasanaethau byrddau iechyd, the national clinical forum wants to see far gwyddom fod y fforwm clinigol cenedlaethol fewer full A&E admission hospitals. If that am weld llawer llai o ysbytai derbyn becomes the eventual model of patient care, it achosion brys llawn. Os mai dyna‘r model o will have a significant impact on ambulance ofal claf yn y pen draw, bydd yn cael effaith services as it will require them to transfer sylweddol ar wasanaethau ambiwlans gan y patients over longer distances and mean that bydd angen iddynt drosglwyddo cleifion dros they are not available to respond to fwy o bellter ac yn golygu nad ydynt ar gael i emergencies for longer periods. That will ymateb i argyfyngau am gyfnodau hirach. require more resources to be put into the Bydd hynny‘n gofyn am fwy o adnoddau yn system, and that is clearly not in any of the y system, ac nid yw hynny‘n amlwg yn current plans that we have seen for hospital unrhyw un o‘r cynlluniau presennol yr ydym reconfiguration. wedi‘u gweld ar gyfer ad-drefnu ysbytai.

Plaid Cymru will support the Conservatives‘ Bydd Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi gwelliannau 8 amendments 8 and 9, in recognising the a 9 y Ceidwadwyr, sy‘n cydnabod importance of the air ambulance service for pwysigrwydd y gwasanaeth ambiwlans awyr Wales. We will support those two i Gymru. Byddwn yn cefnogi‘r ddau welliant amendments this afternoon. hynny y prynhawn yma.

Gwelliant 8—William Graham Amendment 8—William Graham

Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig: Add at the end of motion:

Yn nodi’r rôl hanfodol y mae Gwasanaeth Notes the critical role played by the Wales Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru yn ei chwarae wrth Air Ambulance Service in assisting the Wales gynorthwyo Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru i Ambulance Service to respond to ymateb i achosion brys yng Nghymru. emergencies in Wales.

Gwelliant 9—William Graham Amendment 9—William Graham

Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig: Add at the end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio gyda Calls on the Welsh Government to work with Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru i the Wales Air Ambulance Service in the gynllunio gofal brys a darparu digon o gyllid planning of emergency care and to provide uniongyrchol i’r gwasanaethau hynny, er adequate direct funding for those services, in mwyn helpu Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru i order to assist the Wales Ambulance Service gyflawni ei amcanion allweddol. to meet its key objectives.

Gwelliant 10—William Graham Amendment 10—William Graham

Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig: Add at the end of motion:

Yn gresynu bod GIG Cymru yn wynebu’r Regrets that the Welsh NHS is facing the toriadau iechyd termau real mwyaf o holl largest real-term health cuts of any of the UK wledydd y DU, ac y gallai hyn gael effaith nations and that this has the potential to have andwyol ar Wasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru. a detrimental impact on the Welsh Ambulance Service.

120 07/11/2012

Darren Millar: I move amendments 8, 9 Darren Millar: Cynigiaf welliannau 8, 9 a and 10 in the name of William Graham. 10 yn enw William Graham.

We all know how important ambulance Rydym i gyd yn gwybod pa mor bwysig yw‘r services are and we all know the problems gwasanaethau ambiwlans ac yn ymwybodol that can occur when they go wrong, and, boy, o‘r problemau a all godi pan fydd rhywbeth are they not going wrong at the moment in yn mynd o‘i le arnynt, a, bois bach, onid oes Wales? We know that the target for an eight- rhywbeth yn mynd o‘i le arnynt ar hyn o bryd minute response time has not been met in the yng Nghymru? Gwyddom na chyrhaeddwyd previous four months, including over the y targed ar gyfer amser ymateb o wyth summer period. That was down to summer munud yn y pedwar mis blaenorol, gan pressures, so we were told. Therefore, in gynnwys dros gyfnod yr haf. Pwysau‘r haf addition to the winter pressures we now have oedd y rheswm dros hynny, o‘r hyn a annually, we have introduced summer ddeallwn. Felly, yn ychwanegol at bwysau‘r pressures to the vocabulary here in the gaeaf sy‘n codi bob blwyddyn, rydym wedi Assembly. No doubt, we will see spring ychwanegu pwysau‘r haf i‘r eirfa yma yn y pressures once the new year is out of the way. Cynulliad. Mae‘n siŵr y byddwn yn gweld I am very concerned that we must get a grip pwysau‘r gwanwyn unwaith y bydd y of this to get it right because people are flwyddyn newydd wedi mynd heibio. Rwy‘n paying the price with their lives and in the poeni‘n fawr bod yn rhaid inni fynd i‘r afael outcomes they have following their illnesses â hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod popeth yn iawn and emergencies. We cannot tolerate this oherwydd mae pobl yn talu‘r pris gyda‘u continuing poor performance and we have to bywydau ac yn yr hyn sy‘n digwydd iddynt ensure that there are adequate resources for ar ôl eu salwch ac argyfyngau. Ni allwn the Welsh ambulance service so that it can oddef y perfformiad gwael hwn sy‘n parhau, deliver the high-quality service that the a rhaid inni sicrhau bod adnoddau digonol ar people of Wales need. gyfer gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru fel y gall ddarparu‘r gwasanaeth o safon uchel sydd ei angen ar bobl Cymru.

People in my constituency are asking why on Mae pobl yn fy etholaeth yn gofyn pam ar y earth they pay national insurance at the same ddaear eu bod yn talu yswiriant gwladol ar yr rate as other parts of the United Kingdom un gyfradd â rhannau eraill o‘r Deyrnas when they have an inferior ambulance Unedig er bod ganddynt wasanaeth service. Minister, I have to say that I keep ambiwlans israddol. Weinidog, rhaid imi saying that they should ask you that question ddweud fy mod bob amser yn dweud wrthynt because, ultimately, it is your responsibility. am ofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw i chi oherwydd, We know that, as a result of a debacle last yn y pen draw, eich cyfrifoldeb chi ydyw. week, a budget was finally agreed towards Gwyddom, o ganlyniad i‘r helynt yr wythnos the end of the week, after having not been diwethaf, y cytunwyd ar gyllideb derfynol tua agreed for an eight-month period during a diwedd yr wythnos, ar ôl cyfnod o wyth mis financial year in which the NHS is facing the lle y methwyd â chytuno ar gyllideb yn ystod biggest cuts in its history. Record-breaking blwyddyn ariannol lle y mae‘r GIG yn cuts are being imposed on the NHS. The one wynebu‘r toriadau mwyaf yn ei hanes. Mae‘r year when the health boards need some GIG yn wynebu‘r toriadau mwyaf erioed. Yr financial certainty so that they can plan in union flwyddyn pan fo angen rhywfaint o order to get to grips with that financial sicrwydd ariannol ar fyrddau iechyd fel y challenge is the one year that no agreement gallant gynllunio er mwyn ateb yr her was reached on a budget until very late in the ariannol yw‘r union flwyddyn na chafwyd day. Either the Minister knew about that cytundeb ar gyllideb tan yn hwyr iawn. Naill situation and did nothing, which would be a ai roedd y Gweinidog yn gwybod am y pretty awful situation, or she did not know sefyllfa honno ac yn gwneud dim, a fyddai‘n about it and did nothing, which would be an sefyllfa eithaf erchyll, neu nid oedd yn even worse situation given that she is the gwybod am y peth ac yn gwneud dim, a

121 07/11/2012

Minister responsible for ensuring that fyddai‘n sefyllfa hyd yn oed yn waeth o adequate resources are given to that part of ystyried mai hi yw‘r Gweinidog sy‘n gyfrifol the NHS. am sicrhau bod adnoddau digonol yn cael eu rhoi i‘r rhan honno o‘r GIG.

I listened carefully to what Elin Jones said a Gwrandewais yn ofalus ar yr hyn a few moments ago about the need for ddywedodd Elin Jones ychydig funudau yn ôl adequate resources for the Welsh NHS and am yr angen am adnoddau digonol ar gyfer y the ambulance service, but you were in GIG yng Nghymru a‘r gwasanaeth Government when these cuts were agreed, ambiwlans, ond roeddech mewn grym pan Elin. You agreed the forward budget when gytunwyd ar y toriadau hyn, Elin. you were a Minister. You were party to the Gwnaethoch gytuno ar y flaengyllideb pan discussions on the resources for the NHS for oeddech yn Weinidog. Buoch yn rhan o‘r a number of years in advance and you voted trafodaethau ar yr adnoddau ar gyfer y GIG them through. Therefore, I am a little am nifer o flynyddoedd ymlaen llaw a disappointed that you are now crying gwnaethoch bleidleisio o‘u plaid. Felly, rwyf crocodile tears about resources, but, hey, braidd yn siomedig eich bod bellach yn wylo there is always time for you to come round to ffug ddagrau am adnoddau, ond, dyna ni, mae our point of view, which is that the NHS amser o hyd ichi gytuno â ni, y dylai fod gan ought to have a protected budget, that y GIG gyllideb a ddiogelir, y dylid buddsoddi additional resources ought to be invested in it adnoddau ychwanegol ynddo ac na ddylai fod and that it ought not to be facing these yn wynebu‘r toriadau mwyaf erioed hyn, nad record-breaking cuts, which other parts of the yw rhannau eraill o‘r Deyrnas Unedig yn eu United Kingdom are not facing. hwynebu.

We know that not all of the pressures on the Gwyddom nad yw‘r holl bwysau ar y ambulance service result from the ambulance gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn deillio o service‘s decisions. Some of them are a result benderfyniadau‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans. of other NHS organisations not getting the Mae rhai ohonynt yn deillio o‘r ffaith nad yw transfers of care right at accident and trefniadau trosglwyddo gofal sefydliadau emergency departments. We have all been eraill yn y GIG yn gweithio‘n iawn mewn there at hospitals when there have been adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. seven, eight, nine, 10 or 11 ambulances Rydym i gyd wedi bod yn yr ysbyty ac wedi stacked up outside an A&E department with gweld saith, wyth, naw, 10 neu 11 o people waiting in them to get in. I have had ambiwlansys yn aros y tu allan i adran constituents come to my office who have damweiniau ac achosion brys gyda phobl yn been sat in the back of those ambulances, aros ynddynt i fynd i mewn. Mae rhai o‘m sometimes for up to an hour before they have hetholwyr wedi dod i‘m swyddfa sydd wedi been transferred into the A&E department bod yn eistedd yng nghefn yr ambiwlansys because of the pressures on NHS finances hynny, weithiau am hyd at awr cyn iddynt and the unavailability of medical beds. So, no gael eu trosglwyddo i‘r adran damweiniau ac matter which way you slice it, at the end of achosion brys oherwydd y pwysau ar gyllid y the day, the heart of the problem is the GIG a‘r ffaith nad oes gwelyau meddygol ar resources available to the NHS. gael. Felly, nid oes ots pa ffordd edrychwch ar y sefyllfa, y broblem yn y pen draw yw‘r adnoddau sydd ar gael i‘r GIG.

One service that is facing increasing demand Un gwasanaeth sy‘n wynebu galw cynyddol is the Wales Air Ambulance service. It is a yw gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru. wonderful charity that provides a terrific Mae‘n elusen wych sy‘n rhoi gwasanaeth service across Wales, particularly in those rhagorol ledled Cymru, yn enwedig yn yr areas that are rural and difficult to reach, ardaloedd hynny sy‘n wledig ac yn anodd eu because of awkward terrain, for traditional cyrraedd, oherwydd tir anodd i gerbydau ambulance response vehicles. However, ymateb ambiwlans traddodiadol. Fodd despite this being an embedded part of health bynnag, er bod hyn yn rhan annatod o

122 07/11/2012 provision in Wales, it does not receive a ddarpariaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, nid yw‘n single penny of investment from the Welsh cael ceiniog o fuddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth Government to enable it to do what it does Cymru i‘w alluogi i wneud yr hyn y mae‘n ei really well. It is because of the generosity of wneud mor dda. Haelioni‘r cyhoedd yng the Welsh public that the service has a brand Nghymru sy‘n cyfrif am y ffaith bod gan y spanking new helicopter in mid Wales. It is gwasanaeth hofrennydd newydd sbon yn y not because of any generosity on the part of canolbarth. Nid oherwydd unrhyw haelioni ar the Welsh Government. Therefore, I hope ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly, gobeithiaf y that you will support these amendments, byddwch yn cefnogi‘r gwelliannau hyn, Minister, to ensure that a sustainable resource Weinidog, i sicrhau bod adnoddau is made available by the Welsh Government cynaliadwy ar gael gan Lywodraeth Cymru i to allow the Wales Air Ambulance to expand alluogi Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru i ymestyn ei its good work across Wales, particularly in waith da ledled Cymru, yn enwedig yn sgîl yr the wake of the reorganisation that is taking ymarfer ad-drefnu sy‘n mynd rhagddo, a fydd place, which will mean that many more yn golygu y bydd llawer mwy o ambiwlansys ambulances are likely to be off the road yn debygol o fod oddi ar y ffordd y tu allan i outside hospitals or on the road transferring ysbytai neu ar y ffordd yn trosglwyddo pobl i people to hospitals much further away than is ysbytai lawer ymhellach i ffwrdd nag sy‘n currently the case. digwydd ar hyn o bryd.

Aled Roberts: We make no apology, as in Aled Roberts: Nid ydym yn ymddiheuro, fel the previous debate, for bringing this matter yn y ddadl flaenorol, am ddod â‘r mater hwn before the Assembly, as Kirsty Williams gerbron y Cynulliad, fel yr amlinellodd outlined. There is a need for the Assembly to Kirsty Williams. Mae angen i‘r Cynulliad hold Ministers to account where it is clearly ddwyn Gweinidogion i gyfrif os yw‘n amlwg the case that a service is underperforming. As bod gwasanaeth yn tanberfformio. Fel y Darren Millar mentioned, I am sure that we soniodd Darren Millar, rwy‘n siŵr ein bod i all know of constituents who have been held gyd yn gwybod am etholwyr sydd wedi up outside hospitals. In my region, in Glan gorfod aros y tu allan i ysbytai. Yn fy Clwyd Hospital in particular there are big rhanbarth i, yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd yn issues with regard to the number of benodol ceir problemau mawr o ran nifer yr ambulances that are stuck outside the A&E ambiwlansys sy‘n gorfod aros y tu allan i‘r department. Like Elin Jones, I, too, have been adran damweiniau ac achosion brys. Fel Elin receiving correspondence and e-mails from Jones, rwyf innau hefyd wedi bod yn cael paramedics, and the situation that she gohebiaeth a negeseuon e-bost gan referred to is not limited to an area in south- barafeddygon, ac nid dim ond yn y de- west Wales. The reality is that, throughout orllewin y mae‘r sefyllfa y cyfeiriodd ati yn Wales, paramedics are complaining about the digwydd. Y gwir yw bod parafeddygon, pressures that they are being put under and ledled Cymru, yn cwyno am y pwysau a that they are being asked to crew ambulances roddir arnynt a‘r ffaith y gofynnir iddynt fod single-handedly, which is in clear ar ddyletswydd ar eu pennau eu hunain mewn contradiction to what is considered to be best ambiwlansys, sy‘n hollol groes i‘r hyn a practice. That is as a result of decisions that ystyrir yn arfer gorau, a hynny o ganlyniad i have been taken in terms of crisis benderfyniadau a wnaed o ran rheoli mewn management, due to the budget pressures that argyfwng, oherwydd y pwysau cyllidebol a the ambulance service faces. wyneba‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans.

Given the current situation, we have to ask O ystyried y sefyllfa bresennol, rhaid inni whether we should be surprised that, as we ofyn a ddylem fod yn synnu na chytunwyd ar believe, a budget for the ambulance service gyllideb y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, fel y was not agreed until last Friday. The setup, as credwn, tan ddydd Gwener diwethaf. Y far as the ambulance trust is concerned is— drefn, o ran yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans— believe it or not—that the health boards sit as credwch fi neu beidio—yw bod y byrddau a committee and agree the amount of money iechyd yn eistedd fel pwyllgor ac yn cytuno that is to be given to the ambulance trust. We ar y swm o arian sydd i‘w roi i‘r

123 07/11/2012 know full well that those health boards are ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans. Gwyddom yn under significant financial pressures iawn fod y byrddau iechyd hynny o dan themselves. Would we, were we financial bwysau ariannol sylweddol eu hunain. A directors or chief executives of those health fyddem ni, pe baem yn gyfarwyddwr ariannol boards, suggest transferring funds to the neu‘n brif weithredwyr y byrddau iechyd, yn ambulance service, even though we may awgrymu trosglwyddo arian i‘r gwasanaeth recognise the increased demands on that ambiwlans, er ein bod yn cydnabod bod galw service, when we are being placed under cynyddol ar y gwasanaeth hwnnw, a ninnau o pressure by the Government to realise cash dan bwysau gan y Llywodraeth i wireddu efficiencies? arbedion effeithlonrwydd arian parod?

Darren Millar: I seem to recall you voting Darren Millar: Os cofiaf yn iawn, for the budget that was set last year for the gwnaethoch bleidleisio o blaid y gyllideb a NHS—you adopted the Welsh Government‘s osodwyd y llynedd ar gyfer y GIG— budget and voted for it as a party. How can gwnaethoch fabwysiadu cyllideb you complain about resources, when you Llywodraeth Cymru a phleidleisio i‘w derbyn supported it? fel plaid. Sut y gallwch chi gwyno am adnoddau, ar ôl ichi ei chefnogi?

Aled Roberts: I am talking about the system, Aled Roberts: Sôn am y system ydwyf, nid not the resources. The reality is that it is not yr adnoddau. Y gwir amdani yw nad yw mor as simple as you suggest to transfer resources syml ag yr awgrymwch i drosglwyddo to the NHS, because, as we have said, social adnoddau i‘r GIG, oherwydd, fel y services and education would then have to be dywedasom, byddai‘n rhaid torri cut. So, it is not as simple as you would gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac addysg suggest, Darren, to transfer money between wedyn. Felly, nid yw mor syml ag yr one budget and another. awgrymwch, Darren, i drosglwyddo arian rhwng y naill gyllideb a‘r llall.

We do have to accept, however, that, if there Rhaid inni dderbyn, fodd bynnag, os oes are resources available, we need to set up adnoddau ar gael, fod angen inni sefydlu systems that are transparent and that provide systemau sy‘n dryloyw ac sy‘n darparu ar for proper budgetary planning. The current gyfer gwaith cynllunio cyllidebol priodol. situation is not good enough. We are pleased Nid yw‘r sefyllfa gyfredol yn ddigon da. that both the Government and Plaid Cymru Mae‘n dda gennym nodi yr ymddengys bod y would appear to agree with that. Llywodraeth a Phlaid Cymru yn cytuno â hynny.

We cannot support amendment 7. We do, Ni allwn gefnogi gwelliant 7. Fodd bynnag, however, believe that what is suggested in credwn fod yr hyn a awgrymir yng amendment 6 is worthy of consideration, as ngwelliant 6 yn werth ei ystyried, fel yr Kirsty outlined, if only because at the very amlinellodd Kirsty, a hynny am fod angen least there needs to be a recognition, as far as cydnabyddiaeth o leiaf, o ran y Gweinidog, the Minister is concerned, that perhaps there efallai y dylai fod llinell o fewn y gyllideb fel should be a line within the budget so that the y gall rheolwyr yn y gwasanaeth ambiwlans management in the ambulance service can wybod o‘r diwrnod cyntaf yn y flwyddyn know from day one in the financial year the ariannol beth yw‘r sail ar gyfer eu gwaith basis upon which it needs to plan in the cynllunio yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod. Rhaid coming year. The Government must take i‘r Llywodraeth ysgwyddo‘r cyfrifoldeb responsibility with regard to this matter and it mewn perthynas â‘r mater hwn a rhaid iddi must make the necessary changes to ensure wneud y newidiadau angenrheidiol i sicrhau that the situation does not reoccur next year. na fydd y sefyllfa yn digwydd eto y flwyddyn We know full well that the reconfiguration nesaf. Gwyddom yn iawn y bydd y cynigion proposals in Hywel Dda LHB area and in ad-drefnu yn ardal BILl Hywel Dda ac yn y north Wales will lead, if accepted, to gogledd yn arwain, os cânt eu derbyn, at

124 07/11/2012 increased pressure on the ambulance service, bwysau cynyddol ar y gwasanaeth because there will be a centralisation of ambiwlans, oherwydd bydd gwasanaethau yn services and there will be a greater need for cael eu canoli a bydd mwy o angen am y the ambulance service in those situations. gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn y sefyllfaoedd hynny.

If the Government does move towards direct Os bydd y Llywodraeth yn symud tuag at funding of the ambulance service, it needs to ariannu‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn be more open with the National Assembly uniongyrchol, mae angen iddi fod yn fwy about the resources that are available to the agored gyda‘r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ynglŷn ambulance service. It would have to appear, â‘r adnoddau sydd ar gael i‘r gwasanaeth as I have said, on the face of the budget. Its ambiwlans. Byddai‘n rhaid i hynny budget would then be known four months in ymddangos, fel y dywedais, ar wyneb y advance, not eight months in arrears, as was gyllideb. Yna byddai ei gyllideb yn hysbys the case this year. bedwar mis ymlaen llaw, nid wyth mis yn ddiweddarach, fel y digwyddodd eleni.

5.45 p.m.

Mike Hedges: First, I will start with a Mike Hedges: Yn gyntaf, dechreuaf gyda comment that I believe we can all agree on, sylw y gallwn i gyd gytuno arno, fe gredaf, namely that the delivery of high-quality, safe sef bod darparu gofal ambiwlans brys diogel and timely emergency ambulance care for ac amserol o safon dda i‘r rhai sydd ei angen those who need it is a top priority. That can yn flaenoriaeth bennaf. Dim ond os oes be achieved only if we have a properly gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi‘i ariannu‘n funded ambulance service in Wales to meet briodol yng Nghymru i gyrraedd y safonau the national standards. Local health boards cenedlaethol y gellir cyflawni hynny. Y are currently responsible for funding byrddau iechyd lleol sy‘n gyfrifol am ariannu ambulance services, and their core budget gwasanaethau ambiwlans ar hyn o bryd, a allocation was agreed, I am reliably chytunwyd ar y gyllideb graidd i‘w dyrannu informed, in April, at the start of this iddynt, mae‘n debyg, ym mis Ebrill, ar financial year. If it had not been, the ddechrau‘r flwyddyn ariannol hon. Pe na bai ambulance service would have run out of cytundeb, byddai cyllid y gwasanaeth money well before now. By the end of April, ambiwlans wedi dod i ben ymhell cyn hyn. the ambulance service would have run out of Erbyn diwedd mis Ebrill, byddai cyllid y money and would have been unable to pay its gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi dod i ben ac ni staff. Obviously, some funding has been fyddai wedi bod mewn sefyllfa i dalu ei staff. going in to fund the ambulance service up Yn amlwg, mae rhywfaint o gyllid wedi‘i until now. You cannot go eight months into a neilltuo i ariannu‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans financial year without having had any hyd yn hyn. Ni allwch fynd wyth mis i mewn funding. What we have ended up with, I i flwyddyn ariannol heb gael unrhyw arian. understand, is a 2% adjustment, which Yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd, o‘r hyn a equates to one week‘s expenditure on the ddeallaf, yw bod addasiad o 2%, sy‘n cyfateb ambulance service, approximately. i wariant un wythnos ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, fwy na lai.

In performance terms, the NHS in Wales, in O ran perfformiad, mae‘r GIG yng Nghymru, common with the rest of the United yn gyffredin â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig, Kingdom, has been under an extended period wedi bod o dan gyfnod estynedig o bwysau, of pressure, and that has resulted in a ac mae hynny wedi arwain at gynnydd continuing increase in demand for our parhaus yn y galw am ein hambiwlansys, ambulances, along with a greater number of ynghyd â nifer fwy o gleifion yn cael eu patients categorised as being in an categoreiddio‘n rhai sydd mewn sefyllfa lle immediate, life-threatening situation. It also mae eu bywyd yn y fantol. Mae angen needs to be acknowledged that patients have cydnabod hefyd fod gan gleifion ran i‘w

125 07/11/2012 a role to play to ease the pressures on chwarae i leihau‘r pwysau ar wasanaethau emergency services. Evidence shows a brys. Dengys tystiolaeth fod nifer cynyddol o growing number of inappropriate emergency alwadau brys amhriodol i‘r gwasanaeth calls to the ambulance service over recent ambiwlans dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gan years, including a recent case in my area, gynnwys achos diweddar yn fy ardal i, a which was well documented in the local gafodd dipyn o sylw yn y wasg leol, lle roedd press, of someone using it as a free taxi unigolyn wedi‘i ddefnyddio fel gwasanaeth service when they wanted to go from where tacsi am ddim pan oedd am fynd o un lle i they were to somewhere else. They called for rywle arall. Ffoniodd am ambiwlans, ac ar ôl an ambulance, and after it took them to where i‘r ambiwlans fynd â hwy i ble bynnag roedd they were going, they got out and carried on am fynd, gadawodd yr ambiwlans a chario with their lives. Many people are calling ymlaen â‘u bywyd. Mae llawer o bobl yn them out for non-emergency reasons. ffonio am ambiwlans am resymau nad ydynt yn rhai brys.

We are also aware of people who are drunk Rydym hefyd yn ymwybodol o bobl sydd calling for an ambulance and being abusive wedi meddwi yn ffonio am ambiwlans ac yn to ambulance personnel. As Members here amharchu personél ambiwlans. Fel y gwŷr yr will well know, it is not only the young who Aelodau yma, nid yr ifanc yn unig sy‘n do this. I place on record my appreciation of gwneud hyn. Hoffwn gofnodi fy the work done by those working in the ngwerthfawrogiad o‘r gwaith a wneir gan y ambulance service, many of whom I know rhai sy‘n gweithio yn y gwasanaeth personally. Patients need to consider using ambiwlans, yr wyf yn adnabod llawer other NHS services, such as NHS Direct ohonynt yn bersonol. Mae angen i gleifion Wales, contacting GP out-of-hours services ystyried defnyddio gwasanaethau eraill y or visiting local pharmacies if their need is GIG, megis Galw Iechyd Cymru, cysylltu â not an emergency. We need an appropriate gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i use of the ambulance service. oriau neu ymweld â fferyllfeydd lleol os nad oes angen gofal brys arnynt. Mae angen inni weld defnydd priodol o‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans.

However, if the need is urgent and potentially Fodd bynnag, os oes angen gofal brys ac os life-threatening, people should call the oes bywyd rhywun yn y fantol o bosibl, dylai ambulance and then expect a rapid response. pobl ffonio‘r ambiwlans ac yna ddisgwyl cael Local health boards are responsible for ymateb cyflym. Y byrddau iechyd lleol sy‘n funding the Welsh ambulance service. It gyfrifol am ariannu gwasanaeth ambiwlans needs to be properly resourced in order to Cymru. Mae angen iddo gael adnoddau meet the national targets set for it and, more priodol er mwyn cyflawni‘r targedau importantly, to meet the realistic expectations cenedlaethol a osodir ar ei gyfer ac, yn of the people of Wales. bwysicach na hynny, fodloni disgwyliadau realistig pobl Cymru.

The question has come up as to whether the Mae‘r cwestiwn wedi codi ynghylch a ambulance service should be directly funded. ddylai‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans gael ei I have a view on all services being directly ariannu‘n uniongyrchol. Yn fy marn i, dylai funded. We need to examine this topic as an pob gwasanaeth gael ei ariannu‘n Assembly via the Finance Committee. We uniongyrchol. Mae angen inni edrych ar y need to look at the way that we fund an pwnc hwn fel Cynulliad drwy‘r Pwyllgor organisation that then passes the funding on. I Cyllid. Mae angen inni edrych ar y ffordd yr have concerns that go right the way across, ydym yn ariannu sefydliad sydd wedyn yn but I do not think that this is the place to start. trosglwyddo‘r cyllid i eraill. Mae gennyf We need to look at it all. I have never been a bryderon ynglŷn â hyn yn gyffredinol, ond ni fan of indirect funding, but it seems to be a chredaf mai dyma‘r lle i ddechrau. Mae measure that the Conservatives used when angen inni edrych ar y cyfan. Nid wyf erioed

126 07/11/2012 they ran the Government that covered Wales. wedi bod o blaid cyllid anuniongyrchol, ond It is one that has been agreed by the current ymddengys ei fod yn fesur a ddefnyddiwyd Welsh Government, and it was unopposed or gan y Ceidwadwyr pan oeddent yn agreed by every other political party in the llywodraethu dros Gymru. Mae‘n fesur y Chamber when they were in coalition. cytunwyd arno gan Lywodraeth gyfredol Therefore, there does not seem to be a great Cymru, a chytunodd pob plaid wleidyddol movement away from indirect funding, but arall yn y Siambr arno neu nis indirect funding needs to be looked at across gwrthwynebwyd pan oeddent mewn the board, not just in respect of the clymblaid. Felly, nid ymddengys bod symud ambulance service. mawr oddi wrth gyllid anuniongyrchol, ond mae angen edrych ar gyllid anuniongyrchol yn gyffredinol, nid yn unig o ran y gwasanaeth ambiwlans.

There is no extra money. The Welsh block Nid oes unrhyw arian ychwanegol. Grant grant is the Welsh block grant. You can bloc Cymru yw grant bloc Cymru. Gallwch pretend that you could take money out of esgus y byddech yn gallu tynnu arian oddi ar local authorities for education, but that would awdurdodau lleol a‘i roi i addysg, ond byddai mean ending all school transport to start with. hynny‘n golygu rhoi terfyn ar gludiant ysgol i It would mean ending a whole range of gyd i ddechrau. Byddai‘n golygu rhoi terfyn services that are provided within education, ar bob math o wasanaethau sy‘n cael eu such as educational psychological services— darparu o fewn addysg, megis gwasanaethau seicolegol addysgol—

Andrew R.T. Davies rose— Andrew R.T. Davies a gododd—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Do Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Peidiwch ag not give way to a Member who has not been ildio i Aelod nad yw wedi bod yn bresennol present for the whole debate. ar gyfer y ddadl gyfan.

Mike Hedges: We have to realise that the Mike Hedges: Rhaid inni sylweddoli bod y NHS in Wales has been in an extended period GIG yng Nghymru wedi bod o dan gyfnod of pressure and it is a fact that Wales faces an estynedig o bwysau ac mae‘n ffaith bod gan ageing population, leading to greater demand Gymru boblogaeth sy‘n heneiddio, a fydd yn on our health service and a greater demand arwain at fwy o alw ar ein gwasanaeth iechyd for ambulances. [Interruption.] Well, let us a mwy o alw am ambiwlansys. [Torri ar look at the situation as it is. I understand that, draws.] Wel, gadewch inni edrych ar y in September 2012, there were 33,000 sefyllfa fel y mae. Caf ar ddeall, ym mis emergency calls, of which 13,400 were Medi 2012, fod 33,000 o alwadau brys, category A, or immediately life-threatening. 13,400 ohonynt yn rhai categori A, lle roedd That means that more than 20,000 were not. bywyd rhywun yn y fantol. Mae hynny‘n The challenges are for the Government to golygu nad oedd dros 20,000 ohonynt yn rhai make the best use of its resources, for health categori A. Yr heriau i‘r Llywodraeth yw trusts to ensure the rapid discharge of patients sicrhau ei bod yn gwneud y defnydd gorau from ambulances and for patients to be o‘i hadnoddau, bod ymddiriedolaethau treated as quickly as possible, and for patients iechyd yn sicrhau y caiff cleifion eu to treat the ambulance service as an trosglwyddo o ambiwlansys yn ddi-oed a bod emergency service rather than as a taxi cleifion yn cael eu trin cyn gynted ag y bo service to hospitals. We all rely on the modd, a bod cleifion yn trin y gwasanaeth ambulance service in an emergency, and for ambiwlans fel gwasanaeth brys yn hytrach it to be a success it needs to be well run and nag fel gwasanaeth tacsi i ysbytai. Rydym oll adequately funded. yn dibynnu ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans mewn argyfwng, ac er mwyn iddo fod yn llwyddiant mae angen iddo gael ei redeg yn dda a‘i ariannu‘n ddigonol.

127 07/11/2012

William Powell: I am pleased to take part in William Powell: Rwy‘n falch o gymryd rhan this important debate. As we all know, the yn y ddadl bwysig hon. Fel y gwyddon oll, ambulance service is a vital service. The mae‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn wasanaeth majority of us will need to call upon it at hanfodol. Bydd angen i‘r rhan fwyaf ohonom some point or other in our lives. It offers us a ei ddefnyddio rywbryd neu‘i gilydd yn ein great deal of reassurance that, when bywydau. Mae‘n cynnig cryn sicrwydd inni something does go wrong, help is just a pan fydd rhywbeth yn mynd o‘i le, fod phone call away, which makes it all the more cymorth ar gael drwy wneud un galwad ffôn, important that, as Mike Hedges correctly sy‘n ei gwneud hyd yn oed yn fwy pwysig, said, we bear down on the abuse of the fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges yn hollol ambulance service. That is only right and gywir, ein bod yn ymdrin yn llym ag proper. We have to commend the work of our achosion o gamddefnyddio‘r gwasanaeth ambulance staff and paramedics, and at the ambiwlans. Mae hynny‘n hollol briodol. same time stand up for them when conditions Rhaid inni ganmol gwaith ein staff and uncertainty conspire to make their jobs ambiwlans a‘n parafeddygon, ac ar yr un more difficult. pryd, eu hamddiffyn pan fydd amodau gwaith ac ansicrwydd yn gwneud eu gwaith yn anos.

From time to time, we hear about cuts to O bryd i‘w gilydd, rydym yn clywed sôn am overtime, ambulance stations being shut, the gyfyngu ar oramser, gorsafoedd ambiwlans reduction of hours, and in some cases staff yn cael eu cau, lleihau oriau, ac mewn rhai forgoing their meal breaks in order to be able achosion, staff yn mynd heb amser prydau to provide the service on which so many of bwyd er mwyn gallu darparu‘r gwasanaeth y us depend. All this is a direct consequence of mae cymaint ohonom yn dibynnu arno. Mae the uncertainty of the funding regime from hyn i gyd yn ganlyniad uniongyrchol o which the ambulance service has suffered for ansicrwydd y drefn gyllido y mae‘r too long. gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi dioddef o‘r herwydd yn rhy hir.

The response times of ambulances have Mae amseroedd ymateb ambiwlansys wedi recently been in decline. For the past four bod yn dirywio‘n ddiweddar. Am y pedwar consecutive months, ambulances have mis diwethaf yn olynol, mae ambiwlansys consistently failed to meet the all-Wales wedi methu‘n gyson â chyrraedd y targed i target of responding to 65% of immediately Gymru gyfan sef ymateb i 65% o life-threatening situations within eight sefyllfaoedd lle mae bywyd rhywun yn y minutes. As we heard earlier, in Blaenau fantol o fewn wyth munud. Fel y clywsom yn Gwent, just 53.9% of such calls get a gynharach, ym Mlaenau Gwent, dim ond response within eight minutes. In Wrexham, 53.9% o alwadau o‘r fath sy‘n cael ymateb o it is as high as 74.9%, but as Kirsty said fewn wyth munud. Yn Wrecsam, mae earlier, no areas within Wales would cyfuwch â 74.9%, ond fel y dywedodd Kirsty currently meet the English target of 75%. We yn gynharach, ni fyddai unrhyw ardaloedd need to look at why these response times are yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd yn cyrraedd y so low. It is not merely an issue of rurality, as targed o 75% yn Lloegr. Mae angen inni we have previously heard. Pembrokeshire, ystyried pam mae‘r amseroedd ymateb mor which is largely a rural area, has the second isel. Nid mater o wledigrwydd yn unig ydyw, highest response time of 71.6%, while fel yr ydym wedi clywed o‘r blaen. Mae gan Blaenau Gwent and Rhondda Cynon Taf, sir Benfro, sy‘n ardal wledig i raddau helaeth, which are obviously far more urban in yr amser ymateb gorau ond un sef 71.6%, tra character, are elsewhere on the scale. There bo Blaenau Gwent a Rhondda Cynon Taf, is, therefore, no correlation either with the sy‘n amlwg yn llawer mwy trefol eu natur, yn volume of calls that are coming through. rhywle arall ar y raddfa. Felly, nid oes Rather, the problem seems to be one of unrhyw gydberthynas ychwaith â nifer y political leadership and of ensuring that the galwadau a dderbynnir. Yn hytrach na hynny, resources are in place, and that the certainty ymddengys mai arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol

128 07/11/2012 of resource is there. However, I am sydd wrth wraidd y broblem, a sicrhau bod yr concerned that it could become extremely adnoddau ar gael a bod sicrwydd adnoddau. difficult if rural areas are further centralised Fodd bynnag, pryderaf y gallai pethau fynd in their service provision. People would have yn anodd iawn os caiff darpariaeth to travel further, but without being able to gwasanaethau mewn ardaloedd gwledig eu rely on ambulance cover. We are aware of canoli ymhellach. Byddai‘n rhaid i bobl the concerns out there, in the clinical forum, deithio ymhellach, ond heb fod yn gallu about some of the proposals coming forward dibynnu ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans. Rydym for reconfiguration. yn ymwybodol o‘r pryderon, yn y fforwm clinigol, am rai o‘r cynigion sy‘n cael eu cyflwyno o ran ad-drefnu.

Only this week, it was widely claimed that, Dim ond yr wythnos hon, honnwyd yn on the night of 26 October, emergency cases gyffredinol, ar noson 26 Hydref, fod achosion were being diverted from Bronglais brys yn cael eu dargyfeirio o adran hospital‘s accident and emergency damweiniau ac achosion brys ysbyty department to Shrewsbury hospital, which is Bronglais i ysbyty Amwythig, sydd dros over two hours away. Aside from ddwy awr i ffwrdd. Ar wahân i dynnu sylw at highlighting the geographic and strategic bwysigrwydd daearyddol a strategol ysbyty importance of Bronglais hospital, that also Bronglais, dengys hynny hefyd y galwadau a demonstrates what demands are placed on the roddir ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn y ambulance service in mid Wales. canolbarth.

We are supporting the Conservative Rydym yn cefnogi gwelliannau‘r amendments that relate to the Wales Air Ceidwadwyr sy‘n ymwneud ag Ambiwlans Ambulance. In Mid and West Wales, the air Awyr Cymru. Yn y canolbarth a‘r gorllewin, ambulance provides a critical service that mae‘r ambiwlans awyr yn darparu allows patients to travel the long distances to gwasanaeth hanfodol sy‘n ei gwneud yn hospital, where necessary, and it forms a key bosibl i gleifion deithio bellteroedd mawr i‘r part of the Welsh Government‘s ability to ysbyty, lle bo angen, ac mae‘n rhan meet emergency response time targets. Our allweddol o allu Llywodraeth Cymru i ambition should be to secure full core gyflawni targedau amseroedd ymateb brys. funding for the Wales Air Ambulance from Dylem anelu at sicrhau cyllid craidd llawn the Welsh Government. gan Lywodraeth Cymru i Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru.

Russell George: I am pleased to take part in Russell George: Rwy‘n falch o gymryd rhan this important debate, and I wish to focus my yn y ddadl bwysig hon, ac yn fy nghyfraniad contribution entirely on the vital work of the hoffwn ganolbwyntio‘n gyfan gwbl ar waith Wales Air Ambulance service, which is a hanfodol Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru, sy‘n particularly crucial service for rural mid wasanaeth pwysig iawn i ardaloedd gwledig Wales. I had the opportunity to meet with y canolbarth. Cefais gyfle i gyfarfod â staff staff at the Wales Air Ambulance at Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru ym Maes Awyr y Welshpool Airport only this Monday, and I Trallwng mor ddiweddar â dydd Llun yma, a also had the opportunity to see the new chefais gyfle hefyd i weld yr hofrennydd Eurocopter EC135 helicopter—and I am told Eurocopter EC135 newydd—a dywedir by staff that the ‗E‘ is important—which now wrthyf gan y staff bod yr ‗E‘ yn bwysig— operates out of the airport. The investment sydd bellach yn gweithredu o‘r maes awyr. made by the Wales Air Ambulance in this Mae‘r buddsoddiad a wnaed gan Ambiwlans new state-of-the-art technology means that Awyr Cymru yn y dechnoleg ddiweddaraf mid Wales has the most advanced life-saving hon, yn golygu bod gan y canolbarth y operation in the UK. We know that the gweithrediad achub bywyd mwyaf geographical demands of living in rural mid datblygedig yn y DU. Gwyddom fod yr Wales, coupled with the lack of a district anawsterau daearyddol sy‘n gysylltiedig â general hospital, means that the facility byw yn ardaloedd gwledig y canolbarth,

129 07/11/2012 offered by the Wales Air Ambulance is ynghyd â diffyg ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth, crucial. I should remind Members that there yn golygu bod y cyfleuster a gynigir gan is no district general hospital in Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru yn hanfodol. Montgomeryshire or, indeed, the whole of Dylwn atgoffa Aelodau nad oes ysbyty Powys. Having that aircraft base at cyffredinol dosbarth yn sir Drefaldwyn, nac, Welshpool means that mid Wales will have yn wir, ym Mhowys gyfan. Mae‘r ganolfan the continued facility to be well served by the awyrennau yn y Trallwng yn golygu y bydd y Wales Air Ambulance‘s crucial pre-hospital canolbarth yn parhau i gael ei wasanaethu‘n care service. dda gan wasanaeth gofal cyn ysbyty hollbwysig Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru.

The peace of mind that the service provides is Mae‘r tawelwch meddwl a gynigir gan y priceless, and that is why thousands of people gwasanaeth yn amhrisiadwy, a dyna pam mae are inspired to raise money for this fantastic miloedd o bobl yn cael eu hysbrydoli i godi charity every year. Indeed, I did a cross- arian at yr elusen ardderchog hon bob Wales walk myself for the charity, and I blwyddyn. Yn wir, euthum ar daith gerdded thank many of the Members who sponsored ar draws Cymru fy hun i godi arian i‘r elusen, me on that, some of whom have not yet paid a hoffwn ddiolch i lawer o‘r Aelodau a‘m me. I will not name them, Mark Isherwood. noddodd am wneud hynny, er nad yw rhai [Laughter.] The question that I have for the ohonynt wedi talu eto. Ni wnaf eu henwi, Minister is this. Do you think that the Wales Mark Isherwood. [Chwerthin.] Y cwestiwn Air Ambulance is a crucial service that must sydd gennyf i‘r Gweinidog yw hyn. A ydych be provided, especially in mid Wales? We o‘r farn bod Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru yn must remember that it takes an hour and a wasanaeth hanfodol y mae‘n rhaid ei half to travel from the centre of ddarparu, yn enwedig yn y canolbarth? Rhaid Montgomeryshire to the nearest district inni gofio ei bod yn cymryd awr a hanner i general hospital. If the answer is ‗yes‘, would deithio o ganol sir Drefaldwyn i‘r ysbyty you agree, Minister, that that service should cyffredinol dosbarth agosaf. Os mai‘r ateb not be funded by volunteers and local yw ‗ydw‘, a fyddech yn cytuno, Weinidog, na fundraising alone? I put it to you, Minister, ddylai gwasanaeth gael ei ariannu gan that for every £1 raised by volunteers, the wirfoddolwyr a chodi arian yn lleol yn unig? Welsh Government contribute £1, up to a set Hoffwn wneud awgrym ichi, Weinidog, am ceiling. There is a cost to that, of course, but I bob £1 a godir gan wirfoddolwyr, y dylai happen to think that people in rural Wales Llywodraeth Cymru gyfrannu £1, hyd at deserve the same level of service as those in uchafswm penodol. Bydd cost yn gysylltiedig any other part of Wales. If we cannot have a â hynny, wrth gwrs, ond rwy‘n digwydd district general hospital—and I understand credu bod pobl yn ardaloedd gwledig Cymru the reasons for that—this Government should yn haeddu‘r un lefel o wasanaeth â‘r rhai at least support this service. mewn unrhyw ran arall o Gymru. Os na allwn gael ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth—a deallaf y rhesymau dros hynny—dylai‘r Llywodraeth hon o leiaf gefnogi‘r gwasanaeth hwn.

We are very fortunate that a legacy left from Rydym yn ffodus iawn bod yr hofrennydd the estate of the late Harry Boden, a local newydd yn gallu cael ei leoli ym Maes Awyr building merchant, secured the new y Trallwng drwy rodd yn ewyllys y diweddar helicopter to be based at Welshpool Airport, Harry Boden, masnachwr adeiladu lleol, along with the efforts of many volunteers and ynghyd ag ymdrechion llawer o local people who raised funds. I also give my wirfoddolwyr a phobl leol a gododd arian. sincere thanks to Anne Lewis, the local Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch o galon i Anne Lewis, Wales Air Ambulance fundraising co- cyd-gysylltydd codi arian lleol Ambiwlans ordinator, and the many volunteers and staff Awyr Cymru, a‘r llu o wirfoddolwyr a staff who work and give their time to this charity. I sy‘n gweithio ac yn rhoi o‘u hamser i‘r hope that the Minister will be able to give a elusen hon. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog

130 07/11/2012 few minutes of her time to pay tribute to the yn gallu rhoi ychydig funudau o‘i hamser many people who support the Wales Air hithau i dalu teyrnged i‘r llu o bobl sy‘n Ambulance, and give of their time to do so. cefnogi Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru, ac yn rhoi Without this legacy and without these people o‘u hamser i wneud hynny. Oni bai am y raising funds in mid Wales, we simply would rhodd hon, ac oni bai am y bobl hyn yn codi not have the ability to get people from any arian yn y canolbarth, ni fyddai modd inni location in Montgomeryshire to a district gael pobl o unrhyw leoliad yn sir Drefaldwyn general hospital within 15 minutes. It is not i ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth o fewn 15 Government funding. We just would not have munud. Nid cyllid y Llywodraeth ydyw. Yn that ability, and we should therefore pay great syml, ni fyddai modd inni wneud hynny ac tribute to those people. I am grateful for the felly dylem dalu teyrnged fawr i‘r bobl opportunity to speak in this debate today. hynny. Rwy‘n ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon heddiw.

The Minister for Health and Social Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Services (Lesley Griffiths): The delivery of Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Mae clinically safe and effective emergency care darparu gwasanaethau gofal brys sy‘n services is a top priority for this Government. ddiogel yn glinigol ac yn effeithiol yn I therefore welcome the debate on the role of flaenoriaeth fawr i‘r Llywodraeth hon. Felly the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust. croesawaf y ddadl ar rôl Ymddiriedolaeth Like other Members, I have the utmost GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru. Fel admiration for the ambulance staff who work Aelodau eraill, rwy‘n edmygu‘n fawr iawn y day in, day out, to respond to patients staff ambiwlans sy‘n gweithio ddydd ar ôl needing life-saving care. This debate presents dydd, i ymateb i gleifion y mae angen gofal an opportunity for me to set out very clearly achub bywyd arnynt. Mae‘r ddadl hon yn my response to the key themes raised in this rhoi cyfle imi nodi‘n glir iawn fy ymateb i‘r debate relating to funding, performance and themâu allweddol a godwyd yn y ddadl hon the reconfiguration of health services. sy‘n ymwneud ag ariannu, perfformiad ac ad- drefnu gwasanaethau iechyd.

First, on funding, let me clarify a few things. Yn gyntaf, o ran cyllid, gadewch imi egluro The Welsh ambulance services trust‘s core ychydig o bethau. Cytunwyd ar yr arian financial allocation was agreed at the craidd i‘w ddyrannu i ymddiriedolaeth beginning of this financial year. The gwasanaethau ambiwlans Cymru ar discussions that have been taking place ddechrau‘r flwyddyn ariannol hon. Mae‘r recently with health boards have been about trafodaethau sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn in-year adjustments, not the substantive ddiweddar gyda byrddau iechyd wedi bod yn budget, as some Members have stated. These trafod addasiadau mewn blwyddyn, nid y adjustments include the allocation of the gyllideb wreiddiol, fel y dywedodd rhai additional £10 million of unscheduled care Aelodau. Mae‘r addasiadau hyn yn cynnwys investment funding that I announced in July. dyraniad o £10 miliwn ychwanegol o These discussions focused on approximately fuddsoddiad cyllid gofal heb ei drefnu a 2% of the overall budget: less than £3 gyhoeddais ym mis Gorffennaf. million. In questions to the First Minister on Canolbwyntiodd y trafodaethau hyn ar tua 30 October, the leader of the Welsh Liberal 2% o‘r gyllideb gyffredinol: llai na £3 Democrats stated that no budget had been set miliwn. Yn ystod y cwestiynau i‘r Prif for the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Weinidog ar 30 Hydref, dywedodd Trust, and that that had led directly to the arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru 65% category-A target being missed. That is nad oedd unrhyw gyllideb wedi ei phennu ar incorrect, and I know that the chair of the gyfer Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau trust has written to you, Kirsty, and has stated Ambiwlans Cymru, a bod hynny wedi arwain that the core funding has been known since yn uniongyrchol at golli‘r targed o 65% ar the start of the year. gyfer galwadau categori A. Mae hynny‘n anghywir, a gwn fod cadeirydd yr ymddiriedolaeth wedi ysgrifennu atoch,

131 07/11/2012

Kirsty, ac wedi nodi bod yr arian craidd wedi bod yn hysbys ers dechrau‘r flwyddyn.

Kirsty Williams then went further in claiming Aeth Kirsty Williams ymhellach a honni bod that the chair of WAST had stated at a public cadeirydd Ymddiriedolaeth Gwasanaethau board meeting that LHBs had been Ambiwlans Cymru wedi datgan mewn intransigent in their dealings with WAST, cyfarfod bwrdd cyhoeddus bod y byrddau and that I had been personally unhelpful. iechyd lleol wedi bod yn anhyblyg wrth Again, I believe that the letter sent by the ymdrin â‘r ymddiriedolaeth, ac nad oeddwn chair of WAST has corrected any innau wedi bod o gymorth. Unwaith eto, misapprehensions that the leader of the credaf fod y llythyr a anfonwyd gan Welsh Liberal Democrats may have been gadeirydd Ymddiriedolaeth Gwasanaethau labouring under. Ambiwlans Cymru wedi cywiro unrhyw gamddealltwriaeth ar ran arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru.

6.00 p.m.

Peter Black: I have a contemporaneous note Peter Black: Mae gennyf nodyn o‘r cyfarfod of that meeting because a member of my staff hwnnw a wnaed ar y pryd am fod aelod o‘m was at that meeting. It is quite clear that he staff yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. Mae‘n eithaf did say those words and if you are now amlwg iddo ddweud y geiriau hynny ac os saying that he did not, your officials have ydych yn dweud yn awr na wnaeth hynny, clearly put pressure on him to withdraw mae‘n amlwg bod eich swyddogion wedi rhoi them. pwysau arno i‘w tynnu‘n ôl.

Lesley Griffiths: I have a copy of the letter Lesley Griffiths: Mae gennyf gopi o‘r that the chair of WAST wrote to Kirsty llythyr a anfonodd cadeirydd Williams stating that. If you want to take up Ymddiriedolaeth Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans that issue with the chair, I suggest that you do Cymru at Kirsty Williams yn dweud hynny. so, but he states clearly with regard to the Os ydych am godi‘r mater hwnnw gyda‘r words attributed to him in particular, that not cadeirydd, awgrymaf eich bod yn gwneud one member of the board, executive or non- hynny, ond mae‘n datgan yn glir o ran y executive, recalls them being made. I am geiriau a briodolwyd iddo yn benodol, nad committed to ensuring that the ambulance oes yr un aelod o‘r bwrdd, aelodau service in Wales is appropriately funded and gweithredol neu anweithredol, yn cofio‘r works in a way that enables the delivery of geiriau hynny. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i high-quality, fair and equitable levels of sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yng service the public expects and deserves. Nghymru yn cael ei ariannu‘n briodol ac yn gweithio mewn ffordd sy‘n ei gwneud yn bosibl i ddarparu‘r un lefel o wasanaeth o safon uchel y mae‘r cyhoedd yn ei ddisgwyl ac yn ei haeddu.

Secondly, let me address issues related to the Yn ail, gadewch imi ymdrin â materion sy‘n performance of WAST. I fully understand ymwneud â pherfformiad Ymddiriedolaeth and share the concerns of Assembly Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru. Rwyf yn Members about the recent variation in llwyr ddeall ac yn rhannu pryderon yr performance of WAST. I am determined that Aelodau Cynulliad ynglŷn â‘r amrywiad this variation will not continue. However, I diweddar ym mherfformiad Ymddiriedolaeth want to bring a degree of context to the Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru. Rwy‘n debate. The ambulance service is part of a benderfynol na fydd yr amrywiad hwn yn complex system of healthcare in Wales. Our parhau. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn gyflwyno aim is to ensure that more people, particularly rhywfaint o gyd-destun i‘r drafodaeth. Mae‘r those with chronic conditions, can access gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn rhan o system

132 07/11/2012 care closer to home and earlier in order to gymhleth o ofal iechyd yng Nghymru. Ein prevent them needing an ambulance. nod yw sicrhau y gall mwy o bobl, yn enwedig y rhai â chyflyrau cronig, gael gofal yn agosach at y cartref ac yn gynharach er mwyn atal yr angen am ambiwlans rhag codi.

Jocelyn Davies: Minister, what is your Jocelyn Davies: Weinidog, beth yw eich reaction to the fact that a Caerphilly woman ymateb i‘r ffaith bod yn rhaid i fenyw o who needed an emergency caesarean section Gaerffili yr oedd angen iddi gael toriad last week waited two hours for an ambulance cesaraidd ar frys yr wythnos diwethaf aros to take her from Ystrad Mynach to the Royal am ddwy awr am ambiwlans i fynd â hi o Gwent Hospital, where her baby then died Ystrad Mynach i Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, during an attempted forceps delivery. Will lle bu farw ei babi yn ystod ymgais i roi you ensure that the family‘s wishes for a genedigaeth â chymorth gefeiliau. A wnewch proper investigation are met? Will women chi sicrhau y caiff dymuniadau‘r teulu i gael have confidence in midwife-led centres if ymchwiliad priodol eu bodloni? A fydd gan they have no confidence in an ambulance ferched hyder mewn canolfannau dan should things go wrong? arweiniad bydwragedd os nad oes ganddynt hyder mewn ambiwlans pe bai pethau yn mynd o chwith?

Lesley Griffiths: I thank the Member for that Lesley Griffiths: Diolch i‘r Aelod am yr intervention. I am aware of this very ymyriad hwnnw. Rwy‘n ymwybodol o‘r distressing case. Jeff Cuthbert and you have achos truenus hwn. Mae Jeff Cuthbert a both written to me about it and I can assure chithau wedi ysgrifennu ataf am y mater a you that I will be writing to Aneurin Bevan gallaf eich sicrhau y byddaf yn ysgrifennu at Local Health Board to ensure that a thorough Fwrdd Iechyd Lleol Aneurin Bevan i wneud investigation is conducted. yn siŵr bod ymchwiliad trylwyr yn cael ei gynnal.

Currently, there are clear emerging indicators Ar hyn o bryd, mae arwyddion clir yn dod i‘r showing significant demographic impacts on amlwg sy‘n dangos effeithiau demograffig NHS services in Wales. This new, higher sylweddol ar wasanaethau‘r GIG yng level of baseline demand is directly driving Nghymru. Y galw sylfaenol uwch newydd the underlying and growing pressures we are hwn sy‘n arwain yn uniongyrchol at y seeing on the ambulance service, A&E and pwysau sylfaenol a chynyddol a welwn ar y many other parts of the NHS. Wales has the gwasanaeth ambiwlans, adrannau highest proportion of people aged over 85 damweiniau ac achosion brys a rhannau eraill compared with the rest of the UK, which is o‘r GIG. Gan Gymru mae‘r gyfran uchaf o predicted to increase dramatically in the next bobl dros 85 oed o‘i chymharu â gweddill y 10 years. This has a knock-on effect, creating DU, a rhagwelir y bydd yn cynyddu‘n more demand on the NHS, and we are ddramatig yn ystod y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Mae already seeing higher proportions of older hyn yn cael effaith ganlyniadol, sy‘n creu people attending A&E. We know that they mwy o alw ar y GIG, ac rydym eisoes yn are more likely to be admitted to hospital gweld cyfrannau uwch o bobl hŷn yn mynd i than any other age group. The level of health adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. need and dependency in this age group can Rydym yn gwybod eu bod yn fwy tebygol o often be much higher, having a significant gael eu derbyn i‘r ysbyty nag unrhyw grŵp impact on the demand for ambulance services oedran arall. Gall y lefel o angen iechyd a and the NHS generally. dibyniaeth yn y grŵp oedran hwn yn aml fod yn llawer uwch, sy‘n cael effaith sylweddol ar y galw am wasanaethau ambiwlans a‘r GIG yn gyffredinol.

In addition, the most recent data from the Yn ogystal, mae‘r data diweddaraf o Arolwg

133 07/11/2012

Welsh Health Survey shows that over half of Iechyd Cymru yn dangos bod dros hanner y men and women are classified as overweight dynion a‘r merched yn cael eu dosbarthu‘n or obese. This increases the risk of rhy drwm neu‘n ordew. Mae hyn yn developing a number of serious and cynyddu‘r risg o ddatblygu nifer o glefydau potentially life-threatening diseases—issues difrifol a allai beryglu bywyd—problemau that all play into the picture of the rising sydd oll yn cyfrannu at y darlun o‘r galw demand we are seeing. It is only fair then to cynyddol a welwn. Mae ond yn deg ystyried view the current performance of WAST in perfformiad presennol yr ymddiriedolaeth the context of this rapidly increasing demand. yng nghyd-destun y galw sy‘n cynyddu‘n Over recent months, the service is getting to gyflym. Dros y misoedd diwethaf, mae‘r more category A calls within eight minutes gwasanaeth wedi cyrraedd mwy o alwadau than ever before. Between January and categori A o fewn wyth munud nag erioed o‘r September this year, there were 18,000 blaen. Rhwng mis Ionawr a mis Medi eleni, additional category A calls compared with cafodd 18,000 o alwadau categori A last year. While it is obvious that there is now ychwanegol o gymharu â‘r llynedd. Er ei bod an increased baseline level of demand, it is yn amlwg bod galw sylfaenol ychwanegol vital that people take responsibility for using bellach, mae‘n hanfodol bod pobl yn cymryd all health services appropriately. cyfrifoldeb am ddefnyddio‘r holl wasanaethau iechyd yn briodol.

Kirsty Williams: Will the Minister give Kirsty Williams: A wnaiff y Gweinidog way? ildio?

Lesley Griffiths: I cannot take any more Lesley Griffiths: Ni allaf dderbyn rhagor o interventions, I am sorry. ymyriadau, mae‘n ddrwg gennyf.

The ambulance service has met the 65% Mae‘r gwasanaeth ambiwlans wedi cyrraedd category A response standard in 11 of the last y targed ymateb o 65% ar gyfer galwadau 17 months, and where it has been missed, this categori A mewn 11 o‘r 17 mis diwethaf, a is often by less than 1%. However, I am lle mae wedi cael ei golli, mae hyn yn aml o determined to ensure WAST goes further to lai nag 1%. Fodd bynnag, rwy‘n benderfynol drive forward improvements to further o sicrhau bod Ymddiriedolaeth support patient care. This includes the daily Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru yn NHS executive teleconference calls. These hyrwyddo gwelliannau i wella cymorth gofal provide an effective forum to enable cleifion ymhellach. Mae hyn yn cynnwys collaboration and negotiation across health galwadau telegynhadledd gweithredol y GIG boards to respond to existing pressures as bob dydd. Mae‘r rhain yn cynnig fforwm they arise. Thanks to this new joint initiative, effeithiol i alluogi cydweithio a chyd-drafod in recent months there has been a 47% rhwng byrddau iechyd i ymateb i‘r pwysau reduction in lost hours—those times when sy‘n bodoli wrth iddynt godi. Diolch i‘r gyd- ambulances are held up at hospitals. This has fenter newydd hon, yn ystod y misoedd improved significantly over the last three diwethaf, bu gostyngiad o 47% mewn oriau a months. However, having laid out the gollwyd—yr adegau hynny pan fydd context, I fully recognise there is still work to ambiwlansys yn gorfod aros mewn ysbytai. be done to raise the bar and improve overall Mae hyn wedi gwella‘n sylweddol dros y tri response times. mis diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl nodi‘r cyd- destun, cydnabyddaf yn llawn fod gwaith i‘w wneud o hyd i godi‘r safon a gwella amseroedd ymateb cyffredinol.

Thirdly I would like to consider the role of Yn drydydd, hoffwn ystyried rôl y the Ambulance service in the wider gwasanaeth Ambiwlans yng nghyd-destun reconfiguration of NHS services. Members ad-drefnu gwasanaethau‘r GIG yn ehangach. are aware that I have instigated a mid-year Bydd yr Aelodau yn ymwybodol imi sefydlu review of finance and performance alongside adolygiad canol blwyddyn o gyllid a

134 07/11/2012 this to assist my decision making. I can pherfformiad ochr yn ochr â hyn i‘m helpu i assure Members that WAST has been fully wneud penderfyniadau. Gallaf roi sicrwydd involved with local health boards in i‘r Aelodau fod Ymddiriedolaeth developing the service reconfiguration Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru wedi bod proposals. That reconfiguration is being yn ymwneud yn llawn â‘r byrddau iechyd undertaken to ensure that patients receive the lleol i ddatblygu‘r cynigion i ad-drefnu right treatment at the right time in the right gwasanaethau. Ad-drefnir gwasanaethau er place, and I can assure you, as I have mwyn sicrhau bod cleifion yn cael y driniaeth mentioned, that WAST has been fully gywir ar yr amser cywir yn y lle cywir, a involved in those plans. gallaf roi sicrwydd ichi, fel yr wyf wedi crybwyll, bod yr ymddiriedolaeth wedi cymryd rhan lawn yn y cynlluniau hynny.

Darren Millar and Russell George referred to Cyfeiriodd Darren Millar a Russell George at the Wales Air Ambulance service, and of wasanaeth Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru, ac wrth course we support it. It is greatly valued, and gwrs rydym yn ei gefnogi. Mae‘n cael ei I would like to pay tribute to its volunteers. werthfawrogi‘n fawr, a hoffwn dalu teyrnged We fund the paramedics on the air i‘w wirfoddolwyr. Rydym yn ariannu‘r ambulance, but the operational costs of the parafeddygon ar yr ambiwlans awyr, ond helicopters are funded through charitable caiff costau gweithredol yr hofrenyddion eu donations. The charity has never requested hariannu drwy roddion elusennol. Nid yw‘r additional financial assistance from the elusen erioed wedi gofyn am gymorth Welsh Government. ariannol ychwanegol gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

Darren Millar rose— Darren Millar a gododd—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. The Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Mae‘r Minister has said that she will not be taking Gweinidog wedi dweud na fydd yn derbyn any more interventions. rhagor o ymyriadau.

Lesley Griffiths: I have decided to undertake Lesley Griffiths: Rwyf wedi penderfynu a review of the Welsh ambulance service. cynnal adolygiad o wasanaeth ambiwlans This will be a comprehensive review and will Cymru. Bydd hwn yn adolygiad cover relationships with health boards, cynhwysfawr a bydd yn cynnwys y berthynas including funding arrangements, targets, â‘r byrddau iechyd, gan gynnwys trefniadau structure, whether the current arrangements ariannu, targedau, strwythur, pa un a oes might be modified, and the relationship modd addasu‘r trefniadau presennol, a‘r between emergency and non-emergency berthynas rhwng y gwasanaeth cludo cleifion patient transport services. I will be asking brys a‘r gwasanaeth nad yw‘n frys. Byddaf officials to prepare terms of reference for the yn gofyn i swyddogion baratoi cylch review, and I will share these with Assembly gorchwyl ar gyfer yr adolygiad, a byddaf yn Members before the end of this month. ei rannu gydag Aelodau‘r Cynulliad cyn diwedd y mis hwn.

Peter Black: I only have three and a half Peter Black: Dim ond tair munud a hanner minutes, so I will have to be succinct. I note sydd gennyf, felly bydd yn rhaid imi fod yn that the Minister is announcing the ninth gryno. Nodaf fod y Gweinidog yn cyhoeddi‘r review in six years, I think—that is how we nawfed adolygiad mewn chwe blynedd, fe have added them up. If we have had eight gredaf—dyna‘r cyfanswm sydd gennym. Os reviews and we still cannot get it right, how ydym wedi cael wyth adolygiad a‘n bod yn will this ninth one make any difference? The methu o hyd i gael pethau‘n iawn, sut y bydd Minister needs to get the basics right and y nawfed adolygiad yn gwneud unrhyw make sure that the ambulance service delivers wahaniaeth? Mae angen i‘r Gweinidog gael y on what it is meant to be delivering, and has pethau sylfaenol yn iawn a gwneud yn siŵr

135 07/11/2012 the budget that it needs to do so. bod y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn cyflawni‘r hyn y dylai ei gyflawni, a bod ganddo y gyllideb sydd ei hangen arno i wneud hynny.

Both Mike Hedges and the Minister said that Dywedodd Mike Hedges a‘r Gweinidog y the core budget was agreed in April this year. cytunwyd ar y gyllideb graidd ym mis Ebrill The Minister says that the discussion that eleni. Dywed y Gweinidog fod y drafodaeth a took place at the trust meeting on 18 October gynhaliwyd yng nghyfarfod yr was about in-year adjustments. She then went ymddiriedolaeth ar 18 Hydref yn ymwneud on to talk about the massive increase in ag addasiadau mewn blwyddyn. Yna aeth yn demand for the ambulance service, indicating ei blaen i sôn am y cynnydd enfawr yn y that those in-year adjustments will have to be galw am y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, gan quite massive if they are to get anywhere near awgrymu y bydd yn rhaid i‘r addasiadau meeting those pressures. Clearly, this core mewn blwyddyn fod yn eithaf mawr er mwyn budget was fairly small to start with. If you dod yn agos at ymdrin â‘r pwysau hynny. Yn look at the press release that was put out by amlwg, roedd y gyllideb graidd hon yn eithaf the Welsh NHS Confederation on 2 bach i ddechrau. Os edrychwch ar y November, it says that: datganiad i‘r wasg a gyhoeddwyd gan Gonffederasiwn GIG Cymru ar 2 Tachwedd, dywed:

‗the Welsh Ambulance Service and the Local mae Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru a‘r Health Boards in Wales have reached Byrddau Iechyd Lleol yng Nghymru wedi agreement on funding for the ambulance dod i gytundeb ar gyllid ar gyfer y service in 2012-13 to meet service pressures gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn 2012-13 i ymdrin and support the Trust in meeting its financial â phwysau ar y gwasanaeth a helpu‘r duties.‘ Ymddiriedolaeth i gyflawni ei dyletswyddau ariannol.

That sounds pretty core to me. The Minister Mae hynny‘n swnio‘n eithaf creiddiol i mi. says that the core budget was set in April; Dywed y Gweinidog i‘r gyllideb graidd gael what exactly is that about? At the meeting on ei phennu ym mis Ebrill; beth yn union yw 18 October, it was made clear in the public ystyr hynny? Yn y cyfarfod ar 18 Hydref, fe‘i part of that meeting—and I have gwnaed yn glir yn y rhan gyhoeddus o‘r contemporaneous notes here—that the Welsh cyfarfod hwnnw—ac mae gennyf nodiadau a ambulance service trust had set a deadline of wnaed ar y pryd yma—bod ymddiriedolaeth 13 June for the conclusion of budget gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru wedi gosod negotiations and warned of the consequences terfyn amser o 13 Mehefin ar gyfer dod â‘r of failure. Despite this clear warning, no trafodaethau cyllidebol i ben ac wedi settlement was forthcoming, and the chair rhybuddio am yr hyn a fyddai‘n digwydd pe indicated that, in his view, there were two bai methiant i wneud hynny. Er gwaethaf y factors at play here—the intransigence of the rhybudd clir hwn, ni chafwyd setliad, a health boards and the unhelpfulness of the dywedodd y cadeirydd y gellid priodoli hyn i Minister. I have seen the letter that the ddau ffactor, yn ei farn ef—anhyblygrwydd y Minister refers to, in which the chair denies byrddau iechyd a methiant y Gweinidog i making those comments, but it seems that the helpu. Rwyf wedi gweld y llythyr y mae‘r only note of that meeting is the one taken by Gweinidog yn cyfeirio ato, lle mae‘r my member of staff. There is not an official cadeirydd yn gwadu gwneud y sylwadau note of the meeting. You wonder what hynny, ond ymddengys mai‘r unig nodyn o‘r pressure was brought to bear on the chair to cyfarfod yw‘r un a wnaed gan fy aelod o write that letter and subsequently deny that staff. Nid oes nodyn swyddogol o‘r cyfarfod. he made those remarks. He was clearly Tybed pa bwysau a roddwyd ar y cadeirydd i brought in to see the Minister or her advisers, ysgrifennu‘r llythyr hwnnw ac yna wadu iddo and had the riot Act read to him on what had wneud y sylwadau hynny. Mae‘n amlwg iddo happened. I think that is unacceptable. What gael ei ddwyn gerbron y Gweinidog neu ei

136 07/11/2012 we are getting here is confuscation and hymgynghorwyr, ac iddynt ddweud y drefn misdirection to try to distract us from the wrtho ynghylch yr hyn a oedd wedi digwydd. failures of this Government in relation to the Credaf fod hynny‘n annerbyniol. Yr hyn a Welsh ambulance service trust. welwn yma yw ymgais i ddrysu a chamarwain er mwyn ceisio tynnu ein sylw oddi wrth fethiannau‘r Llywodraeth hon mewn perthynas ag ymddiriedolaeth gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru.

We are in a situation where the trust did not Rydym mewn sefyllfa lle nad oedd gan yr have the budget to deliver its service until ymddiriedolaeth y gyllideb i ddarparu ei mid year, and we have already heard from a wasanaeth tan ganol y flwyddyn, ac rydym number of Members about the consequences eisoes wedi clywed gan nifer o Aelodau am of that, in terms of people having to wait long ganlyniadau hynny, o ran pobl yn gorfod aros times for ambulances, and stations not being amser hir am ambiwlans, a gorsafoedd heb eu staffed. Elin Jones referred to a whole list of staffio. Cyfeiriodd Elin Jones at restr hir o incidents in Swansea, my own area, where ddigwyddiadau yn Abertawe, fy ardal i, lle these problems have arisen, and I have also mae‘r problemau hyn wedi codi, ac rwyf had correspondence from Porthcawl and hefyd wedi cael gohebiaeth o Borthcawl a Bridgend about similar situations. It seems to Phen-y-bont ar Ogwr am sefyllfaoedd tebyg. me, Minister, that you have to get a grip of Ymddengys i mi, Weinidog, fod yn rhaid ichi this issue. I wonder whether a review will do fynd i‘r afael â‘r mater hwn. Tybed a fydd it. Amendment 6 says that the budget should adolygiad yn llwyddo i wneud hynny. Dywed be clearly set out by the Minister so that we gwelliant 6 y dylai‘r gyllideb gael ei can have some transparency and phennu‘n glir gan y Gweinidog fel y gallwn accountability as to the way forward. I urge gael rhywfaint o dryloywder ac atebolrwydd you to move along those lines, and to let us o ran y ffordd ymlaen. Rwy‘n eich annog i know as soon as possible, if you are to have symud ar hyd y llinellau hynny, a rhoi this review, what the terms of reference are, gwybod inni cyn gynted ag y bo modd, os who will carry it out, and what the impact cynhelir yr adolygiad hwn gennych, beth will be on the pressures this winter. I think yw‘r cylch gorchwyl, pwy fydd yn ei gynnal, this Government has failed massively in a beth fydd yr effaith ar y pwysau y gaeaf relation to the ambulance service trust. hwn. Credaf fod y Llywodraeth hon wedi methu‘n lân mewn perthynas â‘r ymddiriedolaeth gwasanaethau ambiwlans.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cwestiwn yw a question is that the motion without ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A amendment be agreed. Is there any objection? oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod, felly I see that there is, so I defer all voting on this gohiriaf bob pleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y item until voting time. cyfnod pleidleisio.

Before I proceed to the votes, are there three Cyn imi fynd ymlaen at y pleidleisiau, a oes Members who wish for the bell to be rung? I tri Aelod sy‘n dymuno i‘r gloch gael ei see that there are not. chanu? Gwelaf nad oes.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.

Cyfnod Pleidleisio Voting Time

Cynnig NDM5084: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Motion NDM5084: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

137 07/11/2012

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.

Gwelliant 1 i NDM5084: O blaid 21, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 20. Amendment 1 to NDM5084: For 21, Abstain 0, Against 20.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Drakeford, Mark Davies, Jocelyn Evans, Rebecca Davies, Paul Gething, Vaughan Davies, Suzy Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Millar, Darren Mewies, Sandy Powell, William Morgan, Julie Roberts, Aled Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Price, Gwyn R. Thomas, Simon Rathbone, Jenny Whittle, Lindsay Sargeant, Carl Williams, Kirsty Thomas, Gwenda

Derbynniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Cynnig NDM5084 fel y‘i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM5084 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

138 07/11/2012

1. Yn talu teyrnged i aberth ac ymrwymiad 1. Pays tribute to the immense sacrifice and aruthrol y rheini sydd wedi gwasanaethu yn commitment of those who have served in our ein Lluoedd Arfog; Armed Forces;

2. Yn nodi’r buddsoddiad diweddar a wnaed 2. Notes the recent investment in services in mewn gwasanaethau yng Nghymru i Wales to support ex-service personnel gynorthwyo cyn-filwyr sy’n dioddef suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder anhwylder straen wedi trawma, ac yn derbyn (PTSD) and accepts the importance of the pa mor bwysig yw’r rôl y gall y trydydd role that the third sector can play in the sector ei chwarae wrth ddarparu delivery of coordinated services to ex-service gwasanaethau wedi’u cydlynu i gyn-filwyr; personnel;

3. Yn nodi canfyddiadau Adroddiad Gofal 3. Notes the findings of the Healthcare and Iechyd a Chymuned y Lluoedd Arfog yng the Armed Forces Community in Wales Nghymru ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i Report and calls on the Welsh Government to ystyried yn fanwl sefydlu canolfan breswyl give careful consideration to establishing a yng Nghymru ar gyfer cyn-filwyr gydag residential centre in Wales for ex-service anhwylder straen wedi trawma; ac personnel with PTSD; and

4. Yn cydnabod y rôl hanfodol y mae 4. Recognises the vital role that war cofebion rhyfel yn ei chwarae wrth sicrhau memorials play in ensuring that the sacrifices nad yw aberth y bobl hynny sydd wedi of many who have served in our Armed gwasanaethu yn ein Lluoedd Arfog byth yn Forces are never forgotten, and notes the mynd yn angof, ac yn nodi pwysigrwydd importance of protecting war memorials as gwarchod cofebion rhyfel yn rhan allweddol an essential part of Welsh heritage and a o dreftadaeth Cymru ac fel canolbwynt ar focal point for remembrance. gyfer cofio.

Cynnig NDM5084 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 40, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 1. Motion NDM5084 as amended: For 40, Abstain 0, Against 1.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Powell, William Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann

139 07/11/2012

Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y cynnig NDM5084 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM5084 as amended agreed.

Cynnig NDM5086: O blaid 6, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 35. Motion NDM5086: For 6, Abstain 0, Against 35.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Davies, Jocelyn Andrews, Leighton Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Antoniw, Mick Jones, Elin Asghar, Mohammad Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Black, Peter Thomas, Simon Burns, Angela Whittle, Lindsay Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.

140 07/11/2012

Gwelliant 1 i NDM5086: O blaid 39, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 2. Amendment 1 to NDM5086: For 39, Abstain 0, Against 2.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Graham, William Antoniw, Mick Millar, Darren Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 2 i NDM5086: O blaid 27, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 14. Amendment 2 to NDM5086: For 27, Abstain 0, Against 14.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Black, Peter Davies, Andrew R.T. Chapman, Christine Davies, Jocelyn Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Drakeford, Mark Davies, Suzy Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet Gething, Vaughan George, Russell Graham, William Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Gregory, Janice Isherwood, Mark

141 07/11/2012

Griffiths, John Jones, Elin Griffiths, Lesley Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Hart, Edwina Thomas, Simon Hedges, Mike Whittle, Lindsay Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 3 i NDM5086: O blaid 14, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 27. Amendment 3 to NDM5086: For 14, Abstain 0, Against 27.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Finch-Saunders, Janet Evans, Rebecca George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Isherwood, Mark Griffiths, John Millar, Darren Griffiths, Lesley Powell, William Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Williams, Kirsty Hedges, Mike Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 4 i NDM5086: O blaid 21, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 19. Amendment 4 to NDM5086: For 21, Abstain 0, Against 19.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

142 07/11/2012

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Drakeford, Mark Davies, Jocelyn Evans, Rebecca Davies, Paul Gething, Vaughan Davies, Suzy Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Millar, Darren Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 5 i NDM5086: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 5 to NDM5086: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 6 i NDM5086: O blaid 35, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 5. Amendment 6 to NDM5086: For 35, Abstain 0, Against 5.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Davies, Jocelyn Antoniw, Mick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws

143 07/11/2012

Asghar, Mohammad Jones, Elin Black, Peter Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Burns, Angela Thomas, Simon Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

6.15 p.m.

Gwelliant 7 i NDM5086: O blaid 24, Ymatal 6, Yn erbyn 10. Amendment 7 to NDM5086: For 24, Abstain 6, Against 10.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Black, Peter Davies, Andrew R.T. Chapman, Christine Davies, Paul Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Finch-Saunders, Janet Evans, Rebecca George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Isherwood, Mark Griffiths, John Millar, Darren Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny

144 07/11/2012

Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol: The following Members abstained:

Davies, Jocelyn Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Jones, Elin Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 8 i NDM5086: O blaid 40, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0. Amendment 8 to NDM5086: For 40, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

145 07/11/2012

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 9 i NDM5086: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 9 to NDM5086: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 10 i NDM5086: O blaid 14, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 27. Amendment 10 to NDM5086: For 14, Abstain 0, Against 27.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Finch-Saunders, Janet Evans, Rebecca George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Isherwood, Mark Griffiths, John Millar, Darren Griffiths, Lesley Powell, William Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Williams, Kirsty Hedges, Mike Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

146 07/11/2012

Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Cynnig NDM5086 fel y‘i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM5086 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn nodi’r gwaith pwysig y mae 1. Notes the important work that head penaethiaid, athrawon a llywodraethwyr yn teachers, teachers and governors carry out ei wneud o ddydd i ddydd i sicrhau’r addysg on a day to day basis to secure the best orau bosibl i’n plant. possible education for our children.

2. Yn nodi bod: 2. Notes that: a) Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dynodi mai a) regional school improvement partnerships, partneriaethau gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol, along with the other educational reforms ynghyd â’r diwygiadau addysgol eraill a supported through the recently launched gefnogir gan y cynllun gweithredu i wella school improvement implementation plan and ysgolion a lansiwyd yn ddiweddar a wider effective collaboration between public chydweithredu effeithiol ehangach rhwng services, have been identified by the Welsh gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, yw’r ateb ar gyfer Government as the answer to address the mynd i’r afael â’r methiant systematig ym systemic failure in education; myd addysg; b) y cynllun bandio ar gyfer ysgolion b) the banding scheme for secondary schools uwchradd wedi dynodi bod angen gwella has identified schools in Bands 4 and 5 as in ysgolion ym Mandiau 4 a 5 ar fyrder; need of urgent improvement;

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau 3. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure bod: that: a) y consortia addysg rhanbarthol yn a) the regional education consortia are cynnwys ymgeiswyr o’r safon uchaf bosibl ac populated with the highest possible quality of yn gwbl weithredol cyn gynted â phosibl ac, candidate and fully operational as soon as os nad yw hyn yn bosibl yn y chwe mis nesaf, possible, and if this is not possible in the next bod rôl y consortia addysg rhanbarthol yn six months, to review the role of regional nyfodol system addysg Cymru yn cael ei education consortia in the future of the Welsh hadolygu. education system. b) bod yr ysgolion a roddwyd yn y bandiau is b) the schools placed in lower bands are yn cael y cymorth angenrheidiol ar unwaith i immediately provided with the necessary fynd i’r afael â methiant systematig. support to address systemic failure.

4. Yn nodi sut y gallai gweithredu’r Grant 4. Notes the beneficial impact that the Amddifadedd Disgyblion yn llwyddiannus successful implementation of the Pupil gael effaith fuddiol ar gyrhaeddiad mewn Deprivation Grant could have on attainment ysgolion. in schools.

5. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio 5. Calls on the Welsh Government to work gydag ysgolion, athrawon a phartneriaethau with schools, teachers and school gwella ysgolion i sicrhau bod y Grant improvement partnerships to ensure the

147 07/11/2012

Amddifadedd Disgyblion yn cael ei optimum use of the Pupil Deprivation Grant ddefnyddio yn y modd gorau posibl, er mwyn to ensure that every child can achieve their sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn gallu cyflawni ei potential. botensial.

Cynnig NDM5086 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 35, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 6. Motion NDM5086 as amended: For 35, Abstain 0, Against 6.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Davies, Jocelyn Antoniw, Mick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Asghar, Mohammad Jones, Elin Black, Peter Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Burns, Angela Thomas, Simon Chapman, Christine Whittle, Lindsay Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y cynnig NDM5086 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM5086 as amended agreed.

Cynnig NDM5085: O blaid 10, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 31. Motion NDM5085: For 10, Abstain 0, Against 31.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Black, Peter Andrews, Leighton Davies, Jocelyn Antoniw, Mick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Asghar, Mohammad Jones, Elin Burns, Angela Powell, William Chapman, Christine Roberts, Aled Cuthbert, Jeff Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Davies, Andrew R.T.

148 07/11/2012

Thomas, Simon Davies, Paul Whittle, Lindsay Davies, Suzy Williams, Kirsty Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.

Gwelliant 1 i NDM5085: O blaid 21, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 20. Amendment 1 to NDM5085: For 21, Abstain 0, Against 20.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Drakeford, Mark Davies, Jocelyn Evans, Rebecca Davies, Paul Gething, Vaughan Davies, Suzy Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Millar, Darren Mewies, Sandy Powell, William Morgan, Julie Roberts, Aled Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Price, Gwyn R. Thomas, Simon Rathbone, Jenny Whittle, Lindsay Sargeant, Carl Williams, Kirsty Thomas, Gwenda

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 2 i NDM5085: O blaid 19, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 2 to NDM5085: For 19, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

149 07/11/2012

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Roberts, Aled Mewies, Sandy Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Morgan, Julie Thomas, Simon Neagle, Lynne Whittle, Lindsay Price, Gwyn R. Williams, Kirsty Rathbone, Jenny Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 3 i NDM5085: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 3 to NDM5085: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 4 i NDM5085: O blaid 41, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0. Amendment 4 to NDM5085: For 41, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton

150 07/11/2012

Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Dad-ddetholwyd gwelliant 5. Amendment 5 deselected.

Gwelliant 6 i NDM5085: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 6 to NDM5085: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike

151 07/11/2012

Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 7 i NDM5085: O blaid 21, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 19. Amendment 7 to NDM5085: For 21, Abstain 0, Against 19.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Drakeford, Mark Davies, Jocelyn Evans, Rebecca Davies, Paul Gething, Vaughan Davies, Suzy Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Millar, Darren Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 8 i NDM5085: O blaid 41, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0. Amendment 8 to NDM5085: For 41, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet

152 07/11/2012

George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.

Gwelliant 9 i NDM5085: O blaid 20, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 21. Amendment 9 to NDM5085: For 20, Abstain 0, Against 21.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Simon Price, Gwyn R. Whittle, Lindsay Rathbone, Jenny Williams, Kirsty Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 10 i NDM5085: O blaid 10, Ymatal 6, Yn erbyn 25. Amendment 10 to NDM5085: For 10, Abstain 6, Against 25.

153 07/11/2012

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Burns, Angela Antoniw, Mick Davies, Andrew R.T. Black, Peter Davies, Paul Chapman, Christine Davies, Suzy Cuthbert, Jeff Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Evans, Rebecca Graham, William Gething, Vaughan Isherwood, Mark Gregory, Janice Millar, Darren Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Jones, Ann Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol: The following Members abstained:

Davies, Jocelyn Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Jones, Elin Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.

Cynnig NDM5085 fel y‘i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM5085 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 1. Calls on the Welsh Government to: a) amlinellu rôl Ymddiriedolaeth a) outline the role of the Wales Ambulance Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru o ran ad- Service Trust with regard to service drefnu’r gwasanaeth a’r effaith y gallai’r ad- reconfiguration and the impact that drefnu hwnnw ei chael ar eu cyllideb a’u reconfiguration could have on their budget perfformiad; and performance; b) asesu ar fyrder y cymorth sydd ar gael i b) urgently assess the support available to Wasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru fel y gall the Wales Ambulance Service so they can gyrraedd ei darged amser ymateb o 65% y meet their agreed 65% response time targets; cytunwyd arno; a and c) parhau i asesu’r trefniadau rhwng c) continue to assess arrangements between

154 07/11/2012

Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol the Welsh Health Specialised Services Cymru, y Byrddau Iechyd Lleol ac Committee, Local Health Boards and WAST, Ymddiriedolaeth Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans to ensure robust governance and funding Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod trefniadau arrangements remain in place. llywodraethu ac ariannu cadarn yn dal ar waith.

2. Yn nodi’r rôl hanfodol y mae Gwasanaeth 2. Notes the critical role played by the Wales Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru yn ei chwarae wrth Air Ambulance Service in assisting the Wales gynorthwyo Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru i Ambulance Service to respond to ymateb i achosion brys yng Nghymru. emergencies in Wales.

Cynnig NDM5085 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 31, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 10. Motion NDM5085 as amended: For 31, Abstain 0, Against 10.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Black, Peter Davies, Andrew R.T. Chapman, Christine Davies, Paul Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Suzy Davies, Jocelyn Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Evans, Rebecca Graham, William Gething, Vaughan Isherwood, Mark Gregory, Janice Millar, Darren Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Whittle, Lindsay Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd cynnig NDM5085 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM5085 as amended agreed.

The Deputy Presiding Offier: That brings Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Daw hynny â today‘s proceedings to a close. thrafodion heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 6.20 p.m. The meeting ended at 6.20 p.m.

155 07/11/2012

Aelodau a’u Pleidiau Members and their Parties

Andrews, Leighton (Llafur – Labour) Antoniw, Mick (Llafur – Labour) Asghar, Mohammad (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Black, Peter (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Burns, Angela (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Butler, Rosemary (Llafur – Labour) Chapman, Christine (Llafur – Labour) Cuthbert, Jeff (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Alun (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Andrew R.T. (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Davies, Byron (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Davies, Jocelyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Davies, Keith (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Paul (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Davies, Suzy (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Drakeford, Mark (Llafur – Labour) Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Evans, Rebecca (Llafur – Labour) Finch-Saunders, Janet (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) George, Russell (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Gething, Vaughan (Llafur – Labour) Graham, William (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Gregory, Janice (Llafur – Labour) Griffiths, John (Llafur – Labour) Griffiths, Lesley (Llafur – Labour) Gruffydd, Llyr Huws (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Hart, Edwina (Llafur – Labour) Hedges, Mike (Llafur – Labour) Hutt, Jane (Llafur – Labour) Isherwood, Mark (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) James, Julie (Llafur – Labour) Jenkins, Bethan (Plaid Cymru Annibynnol – Independent Plaid Cymru) Jones, Alun Ffred (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Jones, Ann (Llafur – Labour) Jones, Carwyn (Llafur – Labour) Jones, Elin (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Lewis, Huw (Llafur – Labour) Melding, David (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Mewies, Sandy (Llafur – Labour) Millar, Darren (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Morgan, Julie (Llafur – Labour) Neagle, Lynne (Llafur – Labour) Parrott, Eluned (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Powell, William (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Price, Gwyn R. (Llafur – Labour) Ramsay, Nick (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Rathbone, Jenny (Llafur – Labour) Rees, David (Llafur – Labour) Roberts, Aled (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Sandbach, Antoinette (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Sargeant, Carl (Llafur – Labour) Skates, Kenneth (Llafur – Labour) Thomas, Gwenda (Llafur – Labour) Thomas, Rhodri Glyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Thomas, Simon (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Watson, Joyce (Llafur – Labour) Whittle, Lindsay (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Williams, Kirsty (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Wood, Leanne (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)

156