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Transcript, I Believe He Did COPYRIGHT ROYALTY TRIBUI'1'AL In the Hatter of: CABLE COPYRIGHT ROYALTY DOCKET NO. CRT 89-2-87CD DISTRIBUTION PROCEEDINGS PHASE II (This volume contains pages 373 through 449) Room 458 1111 20th Street, 'N„)7. washington, D.C. Tuesday,. December 5„ 1989 The hearing in the above — entitled matter was convened pursuant to Notice, at 10:00 a.m. BEFORE: ,V.C. ARGETSINGER Chairman I'IAR IO F . AGUERO Commissioner ROBERT CASSLER General Counsel MEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhorle Island Avenue, N.N. (202)234-4433 47ashington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 APPEARANCES: On behalf of Christian Television Network: ROBERT 'KENNEDY Director of Special Projects and Cable Relations Christian Television Network 6922 142nd Avenue North Lar go, Florida On behalf of the Settlinq Devotional Parties: For Christian Broadcast Network: CLIFFORD N. HARRINGTON, ESQ. BARRY H. GOTTFRIED, ESO. Fisher, %wayland, Cooper and Leader 1255 23rd Street, N.N., Suit". 800 washington, D.C. 20037 On behalf of National Association of Broadcasters: ROBERT P. DEYLlNG Crowell 0 Noring .100'l Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20004-2505 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.N. {202)234-4433 Nashington, D.C. 20005 {202j232-6600 375 C 0 N T E N T S EXAMINATION 'WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS Robert Kennedy 377 By 51r. Harrington 377 EXHIB ITS FOR 1N NUMBER IDENTIFICATION EUIDENCE Settling Devotional Claimants 395 407 RX-3 409 RX-4 414 (Rejected) 417 NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. (202)234-4433 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 376 P R 0 C E E D I N G S (10: 00 a.m. ) CHAIRIIAN ARGETSINGER: On the record. Ne will hear the rebuttal case of the CTC, but before we start that, one preliminary matter. It came up yesterday in the testimony 6 that NOR, at sometime during 1987, ceased broadcasting the 7 700 Club, and the Tribunal would find it helpful to its 8 d"1i.berations to know at what point, if either party can 9 bring that forth, the Tribunal so requests. 10 CONMISSIONFR AGUERO: The drop of the 700 Club in 11 1987,. the time, the exact time. 12 NR. RARRTNGTON: Ne do not have that with us todav, 13 Nr.. Chairman, but we will endeavor to supply that to you. 14 I'm sure there will bc no problem getting that date within a 15 few days. CHAIRMAN ARGETSINGER: Nell, Nr. Kennedy, and, of course, you can remain seated. You don't have to go back 18 over to the counsel table to examine yourself and, of course, 1.9 you'e still under oath from your last appearance, and we 20 welcome you back as a witness. ?1 Whereupon, 22 ROBERT KENNEDY 23 was called as a witness and, having been previously duly 24 sworn, was examined and testi tied as follows: 25 TRF. NITNFSS: Thank you. I appreciate that. NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. (202}234-4433 washington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 377 Before I start,. there is a correction to note in our reb»tta1. On page 7, Fee Generation section, the Federal Register number has a type. Instead of 12-802 it should be 4 12-808. And 1 would like to add that I am the sponsoring 6 witness for all of the exhibits included in my rebuttal case, and bel.ieve them to b" correct and true to the best of my 8 knowledge and be] i ef . DIRECT TESTIMONY THE NITNESS: I would like to have the rebuttal case for the Christian Television Corporation stand as is, 12 and T. am open to questions on that. CROSS-EXAMINATION 1.4 BY MR. HARRINGTON: 0 Mr.. Kennedy, if you turn to page 3 of your rebuttal 16 testimony, there you will see in the second full paragraph, 17 is a characterization of Dr. David Clark's direct testimony 18 regarding carriage of the PTL Club on a Los Angeles station. 19 Do vn» see that? 20 Yes. Q And in the following paragraph you say that the PTL 22 Club was not carried by 12 or 13 stations beyond the February 23 rating period, and none in the '87-2 accounting period, is 24 that rigb t? A T. believe that 's correct, from the Special Nielsen NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.N. (202)234-4433 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 St»dy. And is it your testimony that the PTL Club was not carri™d bv KHJ in November of 1987? A. No, sir. 0 That's not your testimony'? No, sir. What is your testimonv about the carriage of KHJ? A I coi&ld not find that it was carried. 0 Is it fair to characterize your testimony that. Dr. 10 Clark's testimony was in error? A That is difficult to say. From what he said, it 12 could be in there. Q Could be in there. 8»t. you don't know whether it' 1 4 in error or. not? A I don't know. I could not find any evidence to 16 back up what he said. 0 Did you try calling KHJ and asking them .whether they carried the PTL Club after February 1987'? A. No,. sir. 20 0 You didn'. 21 I 1.ooked in the Nielsen rating books and also in the study that was supplied by Settling Devotional Claimants. 0 And it's your testimony that the Nielsen rating 24 books do or do not'eflect carriage of PTL on KHJ and other stations beyond February 1987? MEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue,. N.W. (202}234-4433 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202}232-6600 379 A T could not find in the Nielsen ROSP devotional hook. 1n the Nielsen ROSP book? A Right=. 0 And t.he ROSP book has not been admitted in 6 . evidence, is that correct? They wo»ld not: allow it: admit:ted in evidence. Did vo» check the Nielsen Study that was made 9 available t.'o you by t'e Devotional Claimants? 1 0 I'm not sure -- are vou talking about the Special 11 Nielsen Study' 12 0 The Special Nielsen Study. 13 A Yes, I did. Q And was carriage of KHJ listed there'? It was listed, but not through 1987, not all the 16 way t;hro»gh. 0 Well, let's look at your CTC Rebuttal Exhibit 18 Number 1, which features the carriage of the PTL Club, and it 19 shows carriage from Januarv t:o Nay at KHJ, and the other. st:at..iona either i n February only, or in the Jan»arv and February rating cycles. What is the source of that 22 documentation? 23 A This came directly from i he information that you 24 sent me, the Special Nielsen Study. 0 And are you sure that this is accurai:e and correct? NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. (202)234-4433 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 380 A 'Po the b"st of mv knowledge,. it is, ves. Q Let me call vour attention then to page -- do you 'nave the Ni el sea Speci al Report with vou. A I think -T. do, somewhere in here, Q Good. Tf you would get it out, please. I want to 6 go through these one by one. A PTL first? Q W l 1, I want to go to station KHJ, do you have 9 those with you? A I took these copies here. I'm not sure what. you'e 11 referring to. g Well, let me show you specifically the full record 13 print of the Special Nielsen Survey, and I call your 14 attention to page 53. A Okay. Now, T. Rid not copy the entire 0 But this was provided to you by the Devotional Claimants, wasn't it, in discovery'? A lt was too laborious to copy the entire 0 So, vou didn't look up to see whether any of the 20 stations were listeR? A 1 l.ooked up the end part here, where it gives the 22 title of the program, the months that the program was on, 23 what station it was on, and came up with the total number 24 Q Well, let me ask you to turn to page 53, which is 25 the printout for KHJ, and you will find that the programs NEAL R. GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. (202)234-4433 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)232-6600 381 1 listed there are alphabetical. Now, let me ask you to look for a program called 3 t'ne Jim and Tammy Show. Do you see that listed for KHJ? A Not at this point. It is alphabetical, correct? Should be. On page 53? Q I'm not sure it's on page 53. Fifty-three is the 8 KHJ print, and it would be in the listings for KHT. A. Okay. Here it is on page 52. ) 0 0 Now, is the Jim and Tammy Show, the Tim Bakker and 11 Tammy Bakker Show, otherwise known at times as the PTL Club' 12 A Yes. 0 And does that show that the Jim and Tammy Show was 14 carried on KHJ during 1987? A Yes, it does. 16 Q What rating periods is it listed for? It's listed on January, February, Nay, July, 18 October and November. 0 You'e sure about that? I think if you go across, 20 it's listed in Jan»ary and Februarv only.
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