Interview with Professor Carol Steiker

class of 2022 1l guide The Harvard Law Record hlrecord.org Independent at Harvard Law School since 1946 Tuesday, September 3, 2019 The Difference between Thought and Opinion Contents Welcome to Harvard Law School! change, that is great! But every so you to confront topics very close to question ourselves, to learn about Welcome to a place that is going to often, it may be worth pausing to ask home. This is hard. and refine how we look at the world. teach you about the law – and, if you what you personally want to get out To say that all we know is that we It can also fill rooms with an energy Professor let it, about yourself. You worked of this place. know nothing may be “Socratic”, but that makes it hard for others to dis- Carol Steiker 1 incredibly hard to come here. Enjoy You will encounter many people it is also an oversimplification. Still, agree constructively. As you embark it. Make the most of it. here and, along with them, many dif- as humans, somewhat inevitably, we on this journey, don’t forget why you My name is Robert. I came to HLS ferent ways of looking at the world. have a limited perspective. When are here but do keep an open mind – after studying chemical engineering Law school does a pretty good job we encounter disagreement about be wary of opinions you do not like because I want to work and study providing us with opportunities to topics we feel strongly about, it is to question – and try hard to leave Advice from at the intersection of law and tech- think about what we think. Given the very hard to prioritize “productive wiser than you arrived. Student Groups 2 nology. If your goals are different, topics that we discuss, both in class dialogue”. It is easy to cling to our broader or narrower, loftier or more and beyond, you will inevitably have beliefs, to our opinions. Yet, doing Robert Mahari, Editor in Chief – pragmatic, set in stone or subject to the type of disagreement that forces so deprives us of an opportunity to Harvard Law Record Professor 3 Interview with Joi Ito Advice from Professor Carol Steiker an Alumnus: 5 Ralph Nader The Record: Professor Steiker, did professors. And I remember that one before I did. He used to call me up you always know you wanted to of the things that solidified my desire on the phone, and say, “Hello, this is teach criminal justice, and how did to become a law professor was that Professor Steiker, is Assistant Profes- Advice and you end up at HLS? one of the professors I had was Mar- sor Steiker there?” Prof. Steiker: When I was growing tha Minow, who was essentially a The September of the year I started perspectives 6 up, I did not want to be a law profes- baby professor back then. She was an teaching, I got a call from the Yale from others sor; I did not even want to be a law- assistant professor and had only been Law Journal, and they said, “we have yer! All the time people would ask here for a couple of years. I remem- a book review that we wanted to pub- me, “what do you want to be when ber asking her, do you like being a lish in December and the person who you grow up?” My answer was: a law professor? And she said instantly, was supposed to write it dropped out. And more! writer. I wanted to be a writer. without missing a beat, “I love it!” I You could write it on whatever book I came to Harvard College where I even remember where her office was, you want. And we promise we will concentrated in history and litera- and I can just picture her, her face publish it, but you have to get it to us ture. It is a unique major. I loved it, lighting up and saying, “I love it”. in four weeks.” And I said, “I don’t CREDIT: MARTHA STEWART and I decided I wanted to be a pro- After HLS I clerked for two years at know, can I get back to you?” And fessor. But I was also very interested the appellate level, at the D.C. Circuit they said, “this afternoon you can I mean, we are blood. There is also that he invited, and reveled in, push- in politics and in the world and I and then at the Supreme Court. First get back to us.” I hung up with them, a degree to which – because even ing and pulling and turning thoughts worried about being a professor. for Judge J. Skelly Wright on the D.C. called my brother and told him “I just though he is younger just by a little bit, over and over and over. He was such Even though I loved the idea, I was Circuit, a great liberal lion of the D.C. got an offer to publish a book review, 18 months – I am unbearably bossy, a great model for that. He and I concerned about being too ivory-tow- Circuit, and then for Justice Thur- but I don’t know. I just started teach- but he puts up with me in a way that I co-taught some of the time and I can ered, not being relevant enough. But good Marshall at the U.S. Supreme ing, I am working really hard on my do not think many other people could. still hear him and see him in the class- I thought that law professors write Court. And I thought, if I am going classes and my teaching notes, I just Just because he is used to me being room. Sometimes when I feel I haven’t about justice. They write about how to become a law professor, and if I don’t know if I can do this.” He said unbearably bossy, because I am his done that well in the classroom, I will the world ought to be, and that is am going to teach and write about that I could not turn down a guar- older sister. go back to my office and think, what what I thought I wanted to do. So, I criminal justice, I need to learn some anteed publication in the Yale Law The Record: On that subject of would Bill have done? applied to law school and came here. more about the criminal justice sys- Journal in my first semester. I told disagreement, in one of your law So how should we disagree with one When anyone asked what I wanted to tem itself. While I was at law school, him that I hadn’t even read any books review articles you name two of another? I do not know if there is a do with my degree, I’d say, I want to the one thing I did not do much of lately and he said, “sure you have, we your colleagues in the very first line clear answer, but there is one piece of be a law professor. was clinical education, although I did read that book over the summer, we and disagree with them throughout advice – really listen! Another is per- belong to, and had worked a little bit both read that book about the death the rest of the piece. In law school we haps to try to think about times that for, the Harvard Defenders. Yet, I was penalty.” The book he was referring disagree all the time. As an academic you changed your own mind and real- I thought that law very involved with the Law Review to was not academic, it was the story and as a pedagogue, what are your ized that you were wrong about some- and it was simply not possible – or of a woman on death row in Texas, thoughts on how we should disagree thing, or at least only partially right. professors write about at least it did not seem to be possible but I told him that, yes, I could prob- with each other? That helps me when I am struggling to me – to do both. So I didn’t have ably do something with that. He was Prof. Steiker: That is such a great to be forbearing and really listen to justice. They write much relevant experience, did not on leave at the time and he offered to question, I really love this question something that I feel in my heart has know much about the criminal justice come up to HLS. I called Yale back, because I do think that it seems to just got to be wrong. This is not easy, about how the world system. I felt like I should change that. my brother came here, and in the have become harder for people to and it is not easy not to rush to push So, I joined the D.C. Public Defender end, we wrote something so exten- disagree about something that is away ideas that you think just have to ought to be, and that Service and worked there for four sive they had to call it a review essay important to them without vilifying be wrong, as opposed to really think- years before I came back here to teach. – it went beyond the bounds of an the person they disagree with. And ing them through and thinking about is what I thought The Record: And then you even- ordinary book review. Looking back, one of the things that is so great about what you can learn from them.

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