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10 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT MEETING
11 HERMOSA BEACH, CALIFORNIA
12 APRIL 10, 2014
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21 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. COURT REPORTERS 22 (800) 288-3376 www.depo.com 23
24 REPORTED BY: CYNTHIA L. VARELA, CSR No. 5917
25 FILE NO.: A801973
Page 1 1 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REPORT MEETING taken at
2 1315 Valley Drive, Hermosa Beach, California, beginning
3 at 6:30 p.m., on Thursday, April 10, 2014, before
4 Cynthia L. Varela, CSR No. 5917.
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6 PLANNING COMMISSION PANEL:
7 Peter Hoffman Kent Allen Lauren Langer Ron Pizer 8 Pamela Townsend Sam Perrotti Mike Flaherty Ken Robertson 9
10 SPEAKERS:
11 Gary Brown John Bowler Lorie Armendaring Jeff Krag 12 Dean Francoìs Ray Dussault Martha Logan Sheryl Main 13 Anna Vitali Mike Matronini Pauline Miller Craig Cadwallader 14 John Lang Chris Miller Loretta Sparks John Arbelaez 15 Karl Grossman Bob Rasmussen Cindy Smith Walt Kashon 16 Dan Rudin Al Sattler Lisa Santora Joe Galliani 17 Ryan Ueda Dave Andrey Andre Sharp Bob Rasmussen 18 J.R. Reviccky Jim Rosenberger John Carlson Stacey Armato 19 Damon Nagami Joel Shapiro Person in yellow suit David Machamriz 20 Jim Sullivan Jim Rosenberg Brandon Gersh Nanette Barragan 21 Roger Light Marcelo Kraus 22 Mike Collins Barbara Ellman 23 Logan Allen Jan Rice 24 Iatianna Geur Tom Malone 25 Peter Shellenbarger
Page 2 1 HERMOSA BEACH, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2014
2 6:30 P.M.
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5 MR. HOFFMAN: Our agenda tonight I think
6 everyone is aware is a one-item agenda. We are here
7 tonight to continue. This is a continuation of the
8 previous meeting last Wednesday night. This is a
9 continuation of the opportunity for members of our
10 community to comment upon the draft EIR.
11 I think everyone is aware that this is a
12 standard part of the CEQA process. That once an
13 environmental impact has been prepared, the document is
14 considered a draft. It does not receive public comments
15 of matriculation. We are just now reaching the end of
16 that period.
17 Comments on the draft EIR are due to the city
18 no later than April 14th. April 14th the draft period
19 will end. At that point all of the comments that have
20 been submitted in writing, as well as those made here in
21 this meeting, which is really a two-part meeting, all of
22 the comments that have been made will be forwarded to
23 our consultants to prepare the draft.
24 They will respond. So everyone is aware
25 tonight. They will be responding to the factual
Page 3 1 comments on the EIR.
2 The comments will be incorporated in the
3 questions and comments. They will be responding to
4 those that are factual comments on the draft EIR.
5 Those of you that may choose to simply state
6 that you're for or against or whatever it might be, the
7 oil property, the oil drilling and so on, opinions will
8 not be part of this process.
9 So the most useful comments tonight are those
10 comments that are factually-based, related to the EIR.
11 By "factually-based" you don't have to be a petroleum
12 engineer to make a factually-based statement.
13 You can comment on your own experience, based
14 on your own experience, your understanding of the impact
15 of the oil project that's proposed, the traffic that
16 will be associated, whatever mention it is.
17 You are free to comment on any part of this
18 project. Critically though, ideally though, those
19 comments will be related to the Environmental Impact
20 Report as they are discussed. Or if you feel there is a
21 need that it should be discussed in the final EIR.
22 We are not tonight -- so everyone is clear on
23 this. There's a little bit of the confusion. There are
24 two additional reports. They are not part of the CEQA
25 process.
Page 4 1 There's a Health Impact Assessment which the
2 city asked to have prepared. That report, the draft was
3 prepared. That draft has been retracted. We anticipate
4 that sometime in approximately another month there will
5 be a final hearing on the Health Impact Assessment.
6 When it is prepared it will be circulated. It will be
7 available on the city website. I'm sure that the City
8 Council and the Commissioner and others will make the
9 public aware of when that Health Impact Assessment has
10 been finalized.
11 The other report is the Economic Analysis, the
12 Economic Benefits Analysis, Cost Benefit Analysis. That
13 document is out. It's available on the city website.
14 You can also come to the Community Development
15 Department to get a copy of that. It's also available.
16 It's not part of this CEQA process.
17 But you certainly should look at that document.
18 If you have comments or questions about that, you can
19 direct those to the city staff.
20 This is a regular meeting of the planning
21 commissions. It's a special topic of the regular
22 meeting. We're going to conduct it as we did the first
23 half of this meeting with our normal protocol, which
24 means that we are going to invite people to come up.
25 We're going to limit comments to three minutes.
Page 5 1 If you have additional comments, certainly you're free
2 to submit those in writing of any length that you wish.
3 But if you would like to speak for more than three
4 minutes and there's someone else here with you tonight
5 who is prepared to concede their time to you; in other
6 words, they would prefer not to speak, they prefer to
7 give you their time, we will extend your time by two
8 minutes up to a maximum of, say, three or four speakers.
9 Other than that, the fire department -- I think
10 we actually have a couple of representatives here. We
11 need to keep the aisles clear. We need to stand in the
12 back. We need to make sure that leave a straight fire
13 exit.
14 I am going to ask, however, that once we begin
15 to receive public testimony, if you would please come up
16 so that we have someone at the podium and then one or
17 two people may be cued up so that we don't spend a lot
18 of time with who's next, who's next kind of thing. Just
19 kind of line up so we keep this going smoothly as
20 possible.
21 I think all of us are prepared to stay here
22 until every single one of you has commented, if that's
23 what your choice is tonight. So feel free and please do
24 come forward. I think this is an important thing.
25 The city attorney, the other day it just
Page 6 1 occurred to me, commented that what we are really doing
2 here is to enhance public comments. Ordinarily this
3 process is done strictly by writing.
4 The city thought this is such an important
5 issue. The planning commissioners certainly did. So we
6 wanted to hear from the public so that we are aware of
7 the issues in the EIR, that all of you think are
8 important, as well as what we got as we did our reading.
9 So that's why we are having this as public meeting
10 tonight.
11 So with that we will move to that.
12 I do want to make one other announcement since
13 everyone is here. Hermosa Beach is certainly a city
14 with a lot of stuff going on. Obviously the oil
15 drilling process is the focal -- is at the front of
16 this. But I think most of you or many of you are aware,
17 the city is also in the midst of revising our general
18 plan. The city general's plan. That process is
19 ongoing.
20 We have serious announcements that are in the
21 local papers. You can come to the city website to get
22 more information. But you need to be aware or you
23 should be aware that the general plan is going to begin
24 with the process here. It's going to begin with a
25 series of public workshops dealing with some of the
Page 7 1 topics.
2 The first meeting -- they are all here at 7:00
3 in the City Hall of Chambers. The first meeting is on
4 April 14th. The topic is climate change and
5 sustainability. Our general plan is going to look and
6 be focused on the urban neutrality and sustainability on
7 environmental issues. That will be the topic the first
8 night.
9 The second meeting will be on April 21st. The
10 topic that night will be economics and land use.
11 And then on April 30th the third meeting will
12 be transportation and public health.
13 And then looking a little bit ahead so you have
14 a head's up, on May 8th we're going to have a community
15 workshop. That will be a 7:00 meeting down at the Clark
16 Building on Valley Drive down by Clark Stadium. So
17 that's on May 8th.
18 So a quick review; 14th, 21st, 30th, and then
19 May 8th, 7:00 to 9:00, beginning the process of our
20 general plan update. And then there will be subsequent
21 meetings towards the end of May.
22 All right. With that --
23 MR. ALLEN: I have one question.
24 MR. HOFFMAN: Sure.
25 MR. ALLEN: Say somebody wanted to come up and
Page 8 1 speak for their three minutes on some topic that's not
2 related to the EIR. They certainly have that right.
3 But if they wanted to go on and talk about how
4 Warren G. Harding was a bad president, can somebody
5 yield their two minutes to that person even if they are
6 not related to the EIR?
7 MR. HOFFMAN: I'm going to trust the good
8 judgment of the residents of Hermosa Beach that no one
9 would defend Warren G. Harding. In the event that they
10 do, you may, in fact, use one of the firemen in the back
11 of the room to carry that person out.
12 We are going to try to keep these meetings --
13 or keep your comments -- and, again, you're free, of
14 course, to speak about whatever you wish.
15 The real value of this meeting is to make
16 comments, factual comments on the content of the EIR. I
17 will use my discretion when I turn the mike off.
18 All right. One last comment. Did you put a
19 sign-in sheet up?
20 THE REPORTER: Yes, I did.
21 MR. HOFFMAN: As you come up, we're going to
22 ask you to just indicate your name, for the record. As
23 you can see, we have a court reporter. She will be
24 keeping track of all the comments and forward them to
25 our consultants.
Page 9 1 To ensure that she gets the names correctly and
2 we're able to link these when you make your comments,
3 you will see there's a sign-in sheet there on the
4 podium. Just go ahead and make sure you print your name
5 there so she will have that. We just want it to be in
6 order when the speakers sign their names.
7 Okay. With that I will open the public
8 hearing. Please come forward. State your name. You've
9 got three minutes. We will be using the timer.
10 GARY BROWN: Gary Brown, Hermosa Beach since
11 1971.
12 As far as the risks go, I think the technology
13 that the EMA is using has probably come a long way from
14 the technology used 100 years ago. I think I'm
15 satisfied with the technology there.
16 But it's important that -- and I think as
17 technology improves, I think the risks will go down.
18 Any project has a risk.
19 But I think it's important to compare the
20 risks. We're looking at taking eight or 900 barrels of
21 oil per day. Punching a couple of holes in the ground,
22 doing whatever they have to do, and we're going to wind
23 up with a site that is better than it is right now.
24 If you compare that to our Chevron neighbors
25 right up the street, they produce 260,000 barrels per
Page 10 1 day. 50,000 barrels per day come in the form of a
2 pipeline. 225,000 per day come in form of a tanker
3 ship.
4 The risks involved in that scenario, we can
5 equally have a catastrophe. But when you compare that
6 with eight or 900 barrels per day, I really don't think
7 it's much of a chance. It's very easy, though, to make
8 a substantiated claim and not back up by any reasonable
9 realistic facts on that.
10 One of the ladies last week, one of the
11 speakers spoke about the possible environmental part,
12 the environmental concern about the birds and the fowl
13 and that sort of thing. I love that. I'm also in favor
14 of not harming the environment.
15 But what seems to bother me is we have a pine
16 tree wind power here in the state owned by LAPD -- I
17 mean, by the Department of Water & Power. They kill
18 thousands of birds. No one is talking about that. I
19 think we have to compare the risks. Thank you.
20 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you very much.
21 LORIE ARMENDARING: Hello. Lorie Armendaring,
22 Hermosa Beach.
23 I support this oil project for a lot of
24 reasons. The most obvious for me is that this is an
25 incredible opportunity for Hermosa Beach to gain a whole
Page 11 1 lot of new revenue. There are many other reasons why I
2 support this project. One of them is the ocean. I love
3 the ocean.
4 Eight to nine months out of the year I swim
5 regularly between our pier and the Manhattan Beach pier.
6 I often see black tar at the shoreline, and occasionally
7 the sticky tar gets stuck to the bottom of my feet. The
8 surfers know what I'm talking about. It doesn't wipe
9 off very easily.
10 It's my understanding that this tar is actually
11 oil and comes from the bottom of the ocean. It seeps
12 through fissures or cracks on the ocean floor and makes
13 it way to the surface and onto the shoreline where it
14 then ends up on the bottom of our feet.
15 It's also my understanding that by drilling for
16 oil we can greatly reduce or eliminate this excess
17 seepage by which some call pollution.
18 I did a bit of research on this topic, and I
19 found that crude oil and natural gas seeps occur
20 naturally out of fissures in the ocean sea bed and
21 eroding sedimentary rocks. These seeps are natural and
22 are fed by natural underground accumulations of oil and
23 natural gas.
24 Oil companies use these natural oil seeps by
25 way of identifying potential petroleum reserves. That's
Page 12 1 what I found out from my own research. If that's true,
2 then we've got oil, and I say we should drill.
3 I read quite a bit of the 1,000-page draft EIR.
4 A lot of it, but admittedly not all of it. I did search
5 and scan the entire report, and I did not see anything
6 written in the report about the oil seepage topic.
7 I would love to see the final EIR address this
8 and how a proposed oil drilling project will affect this
9 naturally occurring phenomenon. Thank you.
10 DEAN FRANCOÌS: My name is Dean Francoìs. I'm
11 a South Bay resident.
12 As far as the oil seepage in the water, there
13 isn't a shred of evidence that drilling is ever going to
14 stop any of that. I used to work for Mineral Management
15 Service and they monitor off for oil drilling. So this
16 whole idea that we're going to solve our problems by
17 drilling for oil is just ridiculous.
18 I submitted comments -- scoping comments. I
19 work with the Sierra Club and other environmental
20 organizations to provide scoping comments. So a lot of
21 that has been provided. The draft EIR does not address
22 the specific comments that people took their time to
23 write in.
24 I've been through the environmental process in
25 the past. And usually draft EIRs address all the
Page 13 1 comments that residents send in.
2 I emailed Miss Townsend here. She replied that
3 it will be in the final EIR. I think that's a shame.
4 It should be out here ahead time in the draft.
5 I don't know if something else can be done
6 before the draft is final, before the final comes out.
7 It's a shame to see that our comments that we wrote in
8 are not being responded to until the final EIR comes
9 out.
10 Having said that, I think it's -- the EIR in
11 itself, the draft I've seen is actually remarkably
12 thorough. There's a lot of good evidence that residents
13 can rely on to determine that we don't need oil in
14 Hermosa Beach.
15 I've seen other EIRs come out and they're so
16 pro-developed and anti -- citizens trying to get their
17 fair share of what needs to be done. This one is
18 well-rounded. There are clearly alternatives, and
19 alternatives including not drilling at all, addressing
20 the EIR. And that's a good thing.
21 But having said all that I think tonight this
22 Planning Commission needs to take the strongest position
23 possible to recommend that the citizens agree with the
24 payout so that we do not drill Hermosa Beach. I think
25 that's the most important thing that can be the result
Page 14 1 of this meeting tonight. Thank you.
2 MARTHA LOGAN: First of all, Panel, thank you
3 so much for being here. I'm sure you have other things
4 that would you rather be doing tonight. And specially
5 on a topic like this, we are so appreciative that you
6 are willing to take our spoken comments, as well our
7 written. I just want you to know we do appreciate that.
8 Those other things coming up sound very interesting. I
9 have to start making Tuesday nights down here a little
10 bit more common.
11 I would like to make a point of clarification
12 about the structure of the DEIR. By the way, this flyer
13 came out. I thought it was very helpful. I don't know
14 if it had anything to do with the city, but directing us
15 to certain sections.
16 I as a lay person have never looked at a EIR.
17 I didn't know what one was. And I'm sure there are a
18 lot of other people out there that are in the same
19 position.
20 So I look at this daunting document of a
21 thousand pages or so. I did what many people do. I
22 looked at the table of contents. And I looked for
23 something that said like "conclusion" or "final
24 comment." Something like cliff notes. I wanted to make
25 my life a little bit easier.
Page 15 1 So in the DEIR I found out it will take you
2 pretty much to chapter six or section six. This is what
3 I found.
4 "6.1.1. No Project Alternative. Under the no
5 project alternative the proposed project would not be
6 built, and the maintenance yard would remain in its
7 existing location with no new maintenance yard being
8 developed."
9 Now, if I just scan that, I'll think okay.
10 It's not supposed to do that. But then I started
11 reading more. And I wanted to read a couple of
12 sentences from here that indicated to me that this is a
13 good idea to do the drilling.
14 "If oil production does not occur in this area,
15 this may result in continued importation of crude oil
16 from overseas that would otherwise be produced locally."
17 "There are no crude oil pipelines..." I did not
18 know that "...that bring crude oil into California.
19 This means that the only source of crude oil can be, we
20 find, crude oil in the end are from California
21 production, from Alaska production brought here through
22 tankers or rail transports."
23 I decided to do -- because of the daunting no
24 project alternative, I decided to do a little research.
25 And I found this. Section 6.1.1. This comes up all the
Page 16 1 time.
2 "Of the six alternatives analyzed in this DEIR,
3 the no project alternative would prevent all of the
4 unavoidable significant impact that would occur with the
5 development of the proposed project. On that basis, the
6 no project alternative would be identified as the
7 environmentally superior alternative."
8 That was written in 2000 for the Civic Center
9 Metbox.
10 (Member of the audience offered their time.)
11 Thank you.
12 "On that basis, the no project alternative
13 would be identified as the environmental superior
14 alternative."
15 That was from the 2000 -- the year 2000 from
16 the DEIR, the Civic Center Metbox Development in
17 Manhattan Beach. The status of that project, as we all
18 know, is completed.
19 Over the 150 that I examined this week, there
20 were hospitals, schools, dams, public transportation. I
21 searched in vain in the DEIR to find something that
22 would say the preferred alternative is to proceed with
23 the project.
24 I would like to suggest that in the documents
25 somewhere it says that the whole point of the DEIR, and
Page 17 1 this may be all technical people understand it. I'm not
2 one of those. I'm sure there are a lot of people
3 reading this that don't understand it. Even one shovel
4 of soil you turn over can impact the environment.
5 Therefore the Environmental Impact Report,
6 generally speaking, come up with the no project
7 alternative at the top of the list.
8 So I would just like people to be aware of
9 that. I would like to see that somewhere in the report.
10 And I just encourage that we be aware of that.
11 Again, thank you very much. Martha Logan.
12 THE REPORTER: Martha Logan. Thank you.
13 ANNA VITALI: My name is Anna Vitali. I live at
14 531 West 2nd Street.
15 Yesterday I called a client of mine. I'm
16 helping this client construct a strategic business plan
17 for capital raise. The capital my client is raising
18 will be used for oil exploration and extraction per the
19 oil standards of Kentucky.
20 Oil has been good to Walt Wilcom and has made
21 him a millionaire many times over. I sincerely hope
22 that our work together continues to see success in this
23 line of business.
24 So I called Wilcom because I wanted to know
25 what someone who loves oil, someone who truly loves oil
Page 18 1 has to say about our little town of Hermosa.
2 I called him also because apparently having a
3 degree in journalism, with an advanced degree in
4 finance, and about 30 years of experience working with
5 the English language does not qualify me to understand
6 the EIR report as written.
7 Wilcom with his typical candor and warmth
8 advised that there are enough regulations in the U.S.
9 oil industry to likely prevent something serious and
10 catastrophic from happening here.
11 He then said there was absolutely no way to
12 mitigate the smell of oil in our town. And that if
13 there is any sulfur at all in the crude, our town will
14 smell like rotten eggs. And there is no way to mitigate
15 that either.
16 Now, in my line of work I'm often asked to
17 conduct such activities for my clients. They want to
18 know at what point does the suspension really get
19 exciting.
20 If my client were Hermosa Beach, I would have
21 no way to model the smell of rotten eggs in the breaking
22 of the analysis on this project. The reason for that is
23 simple. I think fresh air is priceless.
24 But in that frame of mind I would encourage
25 every resident to continue to feel on this sensitive
Page 19 1 issue, to find their number and name their price. To
2 name their price they would need to be paid in order to
3 feel like they and their families are breaking even on
4 the cost of living in the stench of an oil town.
5 For some maybe that's just a nice seat at a
6 hockey game. That's fine. Because we all have a price.
7 So figure yours out.
8 But compared to the terms of lease agreement
9 with DMB just to see if you're breaking even. Thank
10 you.
11 PAULINE MILLER: My name is Pauline Miller, and
12 I've lived in Hermosa Beach for 10 years. I'm at that
13 property for 10 years; in South Hermosa, and eight in
14 North Hermosa.
15 I would reiterate what the person before me
16 said. Most people have no idea what EIR is. I'm not a
17 professional in that field. But since 1986 I have been
18 involved with the property line. I've been buying and
19 selling, and with full commercial and one residential
20 EIR. So I pretty much have sort of a grasp on the plan.
21 Most people do not know what the EIR is. They
22 don't know it's in an Environmental Impact Report. They
23 haven't a clue. Okay.
24 I also believe that A and B indulge in -- I
25 call it deceptive in advertising with the flyers and the
Page 20 1 ads. A lay person even got me on one until I read it
2 properly.
3 If a lay person looks through it, it all seems
4 hunky-dory. And then there's a little verse at the
5 bottom of the flyer that's actually true, which they
6 actually have to put in there. Most people don't notice
7 it.
8 The city and yard replacement is going to have
9 to be preplaced. Has anybody costed that out yet?
10 Maybe I missed the information. Maybe I didn't. I
11 haven't seen it.
12 When they are talking about giving money to the
13 schools and to the community, are they talking about net
14 profit or gross profit? There is a huge difference.
15 And I bet the council can do very well in that profit,
16 the net profit. They cannot on gross profit.
17 If there's an earthquake, and we have been
18 having quite a few lately, I don't even think anybody
19 however much experience they have in matters, et cetera,
20 et cetera can forecast what is going to happen. Look at
21 Japan.
22 I also believe that the oil company does not
23 have adequate liability insurance. If anything happens,
24 its corporation, they can go out of business and, you
25 know, people don't get anything.
Page 21 1 I also object to the fact that the children
2 from the local schools are being taken to this
3 historical site. I don't have children. I heard this
4 from children and my neighbors.
5 They are being shown photographs on the
6 drilling that took place I guess decades ago. They
7 don't understand the specifics. They're children.
8 They're too young. They don't know. But they say,
9 "Mommy, Daddy, we're going to get all this money for the
10 schools." Most of the parents don't investigate. They
11 take it as given.
12 I don't know if anybody has noticed the street
13 damage on Herondo. They have huge containers from King
14 Harbor to Herondo to PCH, where they're taken to Chevron
15 Oil. The damage in that one evening, two evenings is
16 just phenomenal.
17 MR. HOFFMAN: Go ahead. You've got two more
18 minutes.
19 PAULINE MILLER: Thank you.
20 Why did the CEO buy a club in North rather than
21 South Hermosa? Just a comment. It's a few doors away
22 from me. I'm not going to be affected, but I think the
23 city will.
24 And why -- again, there is no council member
25 here. But I would like to make this statement on the
Page 22 1 record. And the fact that why some of them will not
2 state where they stand?
3 Is it because they don't want to lose votes?
4 Some of them will. I know that I and probably a lot of
5 other people if -- I will not vote for somebody who -- I
6 am a citizen who stands -- I don't know what they stand
7 for. I find this very, very disconcerting.
8 For my last statement, these little drawings of
9 the site that A and B has taken, all of these; this,
10 that and the other. But one thing that seems to be
11 missing is that 25-foot whatever it's going to be. It
12 doesn't seem to be in there. That's it. Thank you very
13 much.
14 MR. HOFFMAN: Just for the record, specially
15 for those of you who may be watching at home,
16 Councilmember Barragan is standing in the back of the
17 room.
18 JOHN LANG: Good evening, Commissioner. I live
19 in Hermosa Beach. My name is John Lang. I live at 632
20 Ardmore, Hermosa Beach. This is my daughter, Nela.
21 This is my wife, Denise. She's a kindergarten teacher
22 in Hermosa Beach.
23 MR. HOFFMAN: Let me ask you to speak into the
24 mike.
25 JOHN LANE: Sorry.
Page 23 1 Nela goes to PK. And that's my son Talen. We
2 just got back from Legoland for spring break. So we're
3 super stoked we could make it.
4 We live 98 steps from the proposed site. 98
5 little steps. I've got small feet. So it could be
6 closer. It's not exact.
7 But I just wanted to come here and give a face
8 to the community that lives down in that area. We are
9 just one but a dozen families with children that live in
10 this high-risk Red Zone according to Health Impact
11 Report.
12 I spent my whole life living from one wall to
13 raise my family in Hermosa Beach, and also to buy a
14 house. We just accomplished that dream 18 months ago.
15 So we're super excited about that.
16 It's pretty scary. Because you can see the
17 proposed site from my daughter's bedroom. She overlooks
18 it. In the morning she can see squirrels. She can hear
19 birds, and she can hear crickets. But now she may see
20 the site and hear the drilling and all the other stuff
21 that comes along with that.
22 A lot of people refer to this area as the
23 industrial zone. My real estate agent refers to it as
24 the tree section. As a Hermosa Beach native, it's
25 Hermosa. Oh, thank you. It all the same to me. It
Page 24 1 really doesn't matter what you call it.
2 I just really want to take this opportunity to
3 give a face to the people and the families that live in
4 this area. I encourage you guys to come down and sit on
5 the bench between my house on the green belt and next to
6 the proposed site.
7 You can count the thousands of people that walk
8 through this area, this high-risk area on a daily basis.
9 These people that I'm referring to, these are Hermosa
10 Valley students walking to and from school, joggers, dog
11 walkers, pregnant women, babies, and the elderly. It's
12 frightening how many people -- how high-traffic this
13 portion of the green belt is when we're referring to the
14 high-risk Red Zone.
15 You know what, guys? Thank you for your time.
16 We just wanted to stop by and say hello to everyone.
17 Let you see the families that will be impacted.
18 We're off to the big wave award that's right up
19 the street from the community center. If you guys get
20 out here early, come join us.
21 LORETTA SPARKS: I would like to give a face to
22 the elderly. My name is Loretta Sparks. I'm a resident
23 of 39 years. I live on 8th Place in the 600 block. I'm
24 one house short of the corner. And I think I live in
25 that impact zone.
Page 25 1 I'm very concern. When I first moved to
2 Hermosa the railroad was still running through once a
3 year to keep its easement. We didn't have this
4 beautiful green belt. We had just a bunch of pretty
5 land and the railroad ties. And I have watched the city
6 morph into something beautiful.
7 There are a couple of things. I mean, there
8 are so many things about this that disturb me. There
9 are two things I'm going to speak about. Someone
10 already talked about the stench. So I don't have to
11 talk about three things.
12 If I get up in the morning and I can smell --
13 on the days you can smell the ocean, you know we live in
14 Heaven. And I get to wake up probably smelling sulfur,
15 being around that, that does not sound like where I want
16 to live.
17 I'm also concerned about a couple of things.
18 We do have an enormous amount of young children in our
19 area. So when I first saw the proposed traffic routes
20 and the times that were proposed initially, I was
21 concerned as any mother, grandmother would be that
22 children who are walking to school would have a high
23 volume of children walking to school every day in our
24 area.
25 So I understand having spoken to people who
Page 26 1 know these things better that we agree to change their
2 routes to I think it's 9:00 and 3:00 instead of 8:00 and
3 5:00. I'm not quite sure how that will impact on the
4 farmer's market. Maybe it's going to be replaced. I
5 don't know.
6 But we're going to three huge trucks an hour.
7 Three huge trucks an hour coming down Artesia, PCH,
8 Pier, left on Valley. And my little house, when that
9 train used to go by 39 years ago, shook like it was next
10 to L in Chicago. Now, I'm trying imagine what that's
11 going to do to my little house in my little neighborhood
12 and the children who are walking to and fro. It's
13 terrifying.
14 Not to mention the long-term studies that have
15 been done on the rural sites in the residential areas.
16 Read the book from Beverly Hills High School. 20 years
17 later the impact that it has. Residents and teachers
18 and the students are suffering 20 years later. How do
19 we gear up for that? So obviously I'm not a proponent
20 of the wells.
21 One other thing. I know it's not fracking, but
22 water infusion wells. If you read what's happening in
23 Oklahoma with these water infusion wells, the high
24 incidents of earthquakes have increased more than
25 100 percent. It's stunning. Google it. It's all
Page 27 1 there.
2 It's not fracking. But they've got to get rid
3 of this toxic waste water. Where is that toxic waste
4 going? It's being injected into your -- and I'm out of
5 here.
6 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
7 KARL GROSSMAN: Karl Grossman. 671 Valley
8 Drive. Right down the street.
9 I hope to be the guitar teacher for those kids
10 that were here someday.
11 MR. HOFFMAN: For everyone --
12 KARL GROSSMAN: I'm talking to you.
13 MR. HOFFMAN: It's because the camera is on
14 you.
15 KARL GROSSMAN: Okay.
16 MR. HOFFMAN: We need to keep people's faces in
17 this direction.
18 KARL GROSSMAN: Couple of fact questions. I
19 would like to know the water usage for the drilling
20 operations, and that's per barrel or per day or per
21 week? What would you like to qualify that with? The
22 water usage, fresh water usage? What are we talking
23 about?
24 I would also like to know the electricity usage
25 for this drilling operation, all phases. And you know
Page 28 1 we have problems with our electrical. There's a power
2 shortage, I don't know, once a month? When is it?
3 Every season at least, bang, the power goes off. So I
4 would like to know that.
5 And the last thing, to make it short. Let
6 somebody else have their time. I would like to know who
7 gets to write the voter proposal for this on the ballot?
8 I would like to know who gets the rebuttal? And who
9 gets the counter-rebuttals on that verbiage?
10 Because I don't think it's fair to have the
11 verbiage in there that says anything about the money
12 being spent for schools or the money being this or that
13 or whatever.
14 So I would like to propose that that be very
15 highly scrutinized on who gets to write that and what
16 their qualifications are and who gets to write the
17 rebuttal. Thank you.
18 MR. HOFFMAN: While she's signing in, again,
19 some of you in the back there, again, we have to keep
20 the -- I know we've got a member of the staff there.
21 But we need to keep the aisles clear for ease and exit.
22 Thank you.
23 CINDY SMITH: (Difficult to hear) I'm Cindy
24 Smith. I live on Denison Place.
25 I appreciate the opportunity to share my
Page 29 1 opinion in a respectful forum like this.
2 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
3 CINDY SMITH: First of all, I want to thank
4 costco disability (phonetic) for drilling for oil. I
5 don't think it's a gross exaggeration to say that they
6 may actually save Hermosa from bankruptcy.
7 As you well recall, we're heading toward the
8 penalty phase with McPherson, and McPherson was asking
9 for hundreds of millions of dollars, hundreds of
10 millions of dollars that Hermosa Beach does not have.
11 The fact that we have limited that liability to
12 17 and half million is very important for our town.
13 That should be a sense of appreciation. I know that's
14 hard for people who actually haven't a sense of
15 appreciation. But I consider this proposal.
16 What we have is a classic Cost Benefit Analysis
17 that's comparable because there are a lot of unknowns
18 and a lot of things that are difficult on both sides of
19 the equation.
20 My fear is that it's easy to be risk-reversed
21 and overweight at the front-end cost. There is no doubt
22 that drilling for oil is construction. It will be
23 noisy. It will be smelly. And there will be a lot of
24 traffic on the roads.
25 During steady stay, however, I don't think it's
Page 30 1 a risk annoyance. But how bad do these up-front costs
2 have to be to offset the present revenue stream?
3 I have two points to make about that. We all
4 take risks every day. We drive cars. We fly airplanes.
5 We ride bikes on the shoulders of busy streets. People
6 who are more coordinated than I go surfing. So we all
7 take risks. We do our calculations. We know it's worth
8 it. And that's a mindset I would like people to
9 consider.
10 The second point I would like to make is
11 there's a lot of money on the table. I know people
12 don't want to hear about the money, but there's a lot
13 money on the table. Properly stewarded the City of
14 Hermosa Beach could really be transforming things for
15 the revenue stream.
16 We can put money in tree issues, underground
17 utilities. We can put them in storm drains that better
18 protect our ocean. Whatever it is the council and
19 citizens can agree on.
20 So this really is an opportunity for Hermosa.
21 And I understand it's a very difficult decision.
22 So in summary I would encourage my fellow
23 Hermosans to really honestly and thoughtfully weigh the
24 costs and the benefits. Thank you.
25 MR. HOFFMAN: Are we done? Please don't
Page 31 1 hesitate. When you get toward the end, if you want to
2 come up we can do that.
3 DAN RUDIN: My name is Dan Rudin. I live on
4 4th Street in Hermosa Beach. I'm a long-time resident
5 of Hermosa Beach.
6 I was born and raised in L.A. I'm a native
7 here. I remember the early oil wells addressing the
8 EIR, not so much the politics tonight.
9 My impression was I was very undecided about
10 this. But having consulted with the oil company and
11 trying to learn more about the process, my impression is
12 that the technology has changed a lot for the early oil
13 wells in Baldwin Hills that I grew up with.
14 I'm also looking at -- part of the EIR has
15 dealt with the police and fire department. Within the
16 years I've gotten to know the fire department a little
17 bit and I've been able to talk to the police.
18 My impression is this: Fiscally we have been
19 hurting a little bit in our safety and concern with the
20 community. It would be a great benefit to the city in
21 terms of safety to have an influx of cash.
22 The EIR addresses that it could be more -- how
23 can I say this? Better financed and better supported,
24 the whole project, if we had better policemen and
25 firemen.
Page 32 1 I would like to see Hermosa become a little
2 safer for older people, for younger people, for
3 everyone. I think it would be an enormous benefit, sort
4 of a corollary to the EIR. It would be safer and better
5 for the community to have the sewer systems that we're
6 addressing. The streets, they are in terrible
7 condition, the parks, all of these things benefit in
8 some way to make the city a more beautiful and a more
9 valuable city. Thank you.
10 LISA SANTORA: Hi. My name is Lisa Santora.
11 I'm a family physician. I'm a mother and a resident of
12 Hermosa Beach. I live at 217 Valley Drive.
13 What's your name? Would you like to say your
14 name?
15 ROCCO: My name is Rocco.
16 LISA SANTORA: Where do you live?
17 ROCCO: In Hermosa Beach.
18 LISA SANTORA: What's your address?
19 ROCCO: 217.
20 LISA SANTORA: What street?
21 ROCCO: Valley Drive.
22 LISA SANTORA: Do you have anything to say?
23 You can tell them that. What would you like to say?
24 Okay. I'll say it.
25 This is your front-end cost. We live right
Page 33 1 next to South Park. We live by where the traffic will
2 be going through the Red Zone for five to six years of
3 our lives. That's why I'm concerned as a mother.
4 I had been working on the ground flare project,
5 the traffic as mapped out the Peace Bridge. It does
6 have an impact.
7 It concerns me as we're making great strides in
8 Hermosa to become the best little beach town that we
9 are, come to our best efforts to really improve the
10 health of our children.
11 In reference to the environmental --
12 ROCCO: I want to say something.
13 LISA SANTORA: Now you can say it.
14 ROCCO: I don't like smoke stacks.
15 LISA SANTORA: In reference to the
16 Environmental Impact Report, I think it's important to
17 know that there's -- of the 1,096 pages, there's 153
18 references to health. There's one reference to well
19 being. There's two references to quality of life.
20 Three references to the word vulnerable. Two make
21 reference to fish, and one reference to storage
22 facility. Two references to children's health, and one
23 reference to the elderly. Multiple living will include
24 health, multiple references to long-term health.
25 (HER SON ROCCO TALKING AT SAME TIME. MADE IT VERY
Page 34 1 DIFFICULT TO HEAR HER.)
2 So as this is a proper -- singular report to have
3 a full impact of the health impact of this project on
4 our community. I think it's important to realize that
5 it's not going to give us information to make an
6 informed decision. So thank you for your consideration.
7 MR. HOFFMAN: While we are doing this, I just
8 want to take a moment. Part of the reason that so many
9 of you are saying you're totally unfamiliar with the
10 EIR, ordinarily this process is going to an agency, the
11 City Council Planning Commission, to some governmental
12 entity that's going to make a decision.
13 So the Planning Commission sees the EIR, the
14 City Council sees the EIR, other state and local
15 agencies see the EIR.
16 What's different is, I think everyone
17 recognizes, you're going to make -- we're going to
18 make -- not the Commission, but us as voters and all of
19 you, we're the ones who are making the decision.
20 So we've got a technical document that
21 ordinarily, like I say, go to people who are familiar
22 with it. In this case it's coming to all of us.
23 I think that's why all of us are so happy to
24 see so many of you here as there are. We also owe it to
25 the future of our community and these kids to read the
Page 35 1 DEIR and to make an important decision.
2 So I think I speak for everyone when I say
3 thank you and appreciate you coming forward and making
4 comments about this. So thank you.
5 RYAN UEDA: (Very difficult to hear and very
6 difficult to understand) Good evening. My name is Ryan
7 Ueda. I'm a member of a law firm. I'm speaking on
8 behalf of South Hermosa Beach oil. I will be addressing
9 two parts.
10 The first is the fact that the project as
11 proposed will violate the L.A. fire code.
12 The second is that any oil spoil will
13 irrevocably contain protection and character of Hermosa
14 Beach.
15 The citizens of Hermosa Beach are going to be
16 voting on this project in November. The citizens need
17 to be equipped with enough information in order to
18 evaluate the project. Currently the citizens are not
19 provided with that information.
20 As proposed, it's acknowledged that the
21 project site will violate certain standards, including
22 the L.A. County fire code. The DEIR, draft EIR,
23 (phonetic) pertains to the property line in order to
24 mitigate some other issues (UNCLEAR) because of the fire
25 code.
Page 36 1 The environmental (UNCLEAR) property line the
2 mitigation implemented should be evaluated for the
3 citizens of Hermosa Beach to consider. The citizens of
4 Hermosa Beach have not been informed whether the project
5 design changes are in compliance or whether additional
6 project design changes will be required. If the project
7 design changes to bring this project into compliance,
8 the potential impact of those changes also need to be
9 evaluated.
10 Before casting your vote in November, the
11 voters need to be given the information they need to
12 understand what the environmental cost and structures,
13 but what the actual project design will be.
14 The second point is we also think that there
15 could be more knowledge in the schedule for catastrophic
16 environmental impact.
17 When you come to Hermosa Beach today we walk
18 along the strand. And as an outsider, me, it was
19 disheartening to think that the heart of the city would
20 be put at risk for this project.
21 The DEIR correctly identifies that the proposed
22 project could create impact -- I'm sorry. Environmental
23 accident could potentially impact resources.
24 We agree that meeting with all the (UNCLEAR)
25 that will be implemented there are going to be
Page 37 1 significant environmental impacts.
2 However, the project can be better structured,
3 damage that can be caused by accidental waste, oils, gas
4 or other contaminants.
5 Further, the project more importantly evaluates
6 the cost to respond to the research of oil and discharge
7 of hazardous material, including financial impact to the
8 (UNCLEAR) and subsequent response actions.
9 For example, any negative environmental impact
10 on entitlement will irrevocably harm the recreational
11 quality of Hermosa Beach.
12 Secondary, total perception in corresponding
13 economic impact should be addressed in the final EIR.
14 The citizens need to be fully informed by the
15 true and full cost of an accidental leak. In keeping
16 with the goals that are in front of the public, the
17 project should further note that progressive (UNCLEAR)
18 community alert in education to supervise parents,
19 students, staff in the nearby schools (UNCLEAR)
20 information about project site emergency corrected
21 actions.
22 Because of the potential for catastrophic
23 environmental impact, the citizens of Hermosa Beach need
24 to be given sufficient information to be able to
25 understand and analyze the environmental impact before
Page 38 1 it becomes catastrophic. A catastrophic spill could
2 ruin for generations each life style as one of the
3 guiding principals of Hermosa Beach. Thank you very
4 much.
5 ANDRE SHARP: Good evening. My name is Andre
6 Sharp. Just let me write that down right here. I live
7 on 6th Street off of Ardmore in Hermosa. I'm a
8 long-time resident.
9 I want to agree with a couple of points that
10 the earlier speakers made. The fact is that I'm sure
11 the technology is better than it used to be.
12 Nonetheless the counterpoint to that is that
13 there has not been a single oil drilling operation that
14 has not had an accident.
15 The lady who spoke two speakers ago indicated
16 that she is willing to take a risk because she takes
17 risks every day. Which is fine. So do I. When I get
18 up in the morning that's a risk.
19 However, I don't need to have somebody else put
20 me at risk. That's what the oil drilling is doing.
21 J.R. REVICCKY: Good evening. My name is J.R.
22 Reviccky. I live in Hermosa Beach on 6th Street as
23 well.
24 I sat on the City Council for 16 years, and
25 lived through the McPherson debacle. It started before
Page 39 1 I got there. It was still going when I left.
2 But in reviewing the EIR I want to give you a
3 little history on what happened and how we got into this
4 lawsuit to begin with.
5 The city did their own risk analysis called the
6 Mercer report. In the Mercer report there was a nice
7 little graph there that had probabilities of accidents
8 happening from 35 years of drilling on the site.
9 For injuries off-site the probability was one
10 in 7,000 in the 30 years of this project. Actually one
11 in 700. And for fatalities off-site, for the length of
12 the project it was one in 7,000. Look at your poker
13 odds and do the math.
14 I don't see any of this -- anything in the
15 report as it's written now that I can compare to the
16 last report that City Council decided that this project
17 was too dangerous to be in the City of Hermosa Beach.
18 It needs to be in correlation between the two EIRs so we
19 can compare what happened then and what happened now. I
20 also don't know exactly what the difference is in
21 technology between then and now.
22 The question that I have asked some of the
23 people is: Tell me what's going in the production
24 between then and now. What's changed? And the answer
25 that I got was there's nothing earth-shattering.
Page 40 1 So give me something that I can compare with
2 the last time we had this project and something in the
3 EIR that I can relate to to decide for myself whether or
4 not I think this project is safe enough. And the rest
5 of the voters can decide by themselves whether or not
6 this project is safe or not. Thank you.
7 JOHN CARLSON: Good evening, Mr. Chairman,
8 Commissioners. My name is John Carlson. I lost my
9 voice. I've been a resident of Hermosa Beach for eight
10 years. I'm a relatively newcomer compared to the rest
11 of you.
12 My effort here -- a couple of years ago I
13 started hearing about the McPherson lawsuit, as the
14 gentleman mentioned. I was perplexed to hear that a few
15 years later the City of Hermosa Beach had lost that
16 lawsuit and had a liability of $275,000,000.
17 I'm not that good at math. But realizing that
18 we have a budget of 27.5 million, the liability 10 times
19 that we've got a big problem.
20 You can't reduce enough city services. You
21 can't raise taxes enough to offset that liability. So
22 you have to declare bankruptcy. That didn't look good.
23 So I was kind of down, a little pessimistic.
24 Then I heard A and B National Resources had
25 come into the picture. They had negotiated a settlement
Page 41 1 agreement with the City of Hermosa Beach. Not only to
2 wipe out that liability but also to provide certain
3 amount of income, and for the next 25, 30, 35 years. So
4 I was now back getting positive, optimistic again.
5 And then six, seven weeks ago I had a young
6 couple come to my door. I opened my door, and they
7 said, "What do you know about drilling, the proposed
8 dripping in Hermosa Beach?"
9 I said, "Thank God we're not going to have a
10 lawsuit. We're not going to go bankrupt. I think we're
11 in pretty good shape. We're are going to have annual
12 money coming in."
13 I was told by these people, "You obviously
14 don't know the facts. You're not aware of what's really
15 happening. Do you realize there's going to be at least
16 34 oil rigs in the oil platforms a few hundred yards off
17 shore? Do you know what this is going to do the marine
18 life? To the surfers? To the voters?"
19 I said, "I can't imagine all that."
20 And then they talked a little bit about the
21 maintenance yard. So I said I better go look and do
22 some research on this.
23 Of course, we all know -- and you people who
24 are here, I commend you all being here. Because these
25 people know what's going. But the average voter in
Page 42 1 Hermosa Beach does not.
2 When I got into it, there was nothing that
3 you're going to see offshore. We all know that. The
4 pipes coming from onshore to the ocean will be going
5 2,000 feet under the floor of the ocean. So obviously
6 there's going to be no affect to the surfers, marine
7 life, or voters.
8 So a very nice lady spoke here last week. She
9 mentioned -- she mentioned, first of all, the Exxon
10 Valdez fiasco up in Alaska, big oil tanker spill. She
11 also mentioned a couple of tanker ships that collided in
12 Galveston just a few weeks ago. Of course, we all know
13 about the Gulf of Mexico spill a couple of years ago.
14 It was a disaster.
15 These are all tankers. These are ships that
16 moving are around, running ashore, running underground.
17 Nothing comparable with the piping that we're talking
18 about.
19 If people are really concerned about oil leaks,
20 seepage, oil leakage, we should just look up the road
21 here a couple of miles. These tankers offshore in
22 El Segundo, as I mentioned earlier, are pumping 250,000
23 barrels of crude oil into that Chevron station, the oil
24 refinery every day.
25 We've all walked along the shoreline here in
Page 43 1 Hermosa Beach. We get the tar on our feet. That's from
2 oil seepage.
3 Now, we checked in -- these pipelines are going
4 out in the ocean here. They're seven inches. They're
5 encased in another eight and a half inch pipe.
6 So if something happened to first pipe, there
7 is still a second pipe. If something happened to the
8 second pipe, it's almost impossible. The oil technology
9 of these days, they can shut off that oil spill in
10 seconds so there is not a big danger of a spill.
11 Now, Santa Barbara pumps crude oil into the
12 refinery there in Santa Barbara. They estimate that
13 there's about a 274-barrel a day loss seepage into the
14 bay. But they said it's negligible. It's
15 insignificant.
16 We're talking about no seepage here. So if
17 people are concerned about oil seepage and so forth, go
18 to where the tankers are not where there is oil
19 drilling.
20 There are more than 765 wells from onshore
21 going offshore in California. There has never been a
22 problem.
23 Now, how can people who have oil wells, active
24 oil wells in their communities; Torrance, Redondo Beach,
25 Long Beach, Huntington Beach, Newport Beach. Ask them
Page 44 1 where they would be without the oil revenues. These are
2 very significant revenues.
3 Their risks are much greater than what we are
4 talking about here now.
5 MR. HOFFMAN: I'm going to ask you to wrap it
6 up. You have got two minutes.
7 JOHN CARLSON: Express my concern? My concern
8 is we are going to be getting -- we've wiped out the
9 275,000,000 liability. Right? That's a fact. We're
10 going to be getting, what, 30, some $40 million annually
11 into the city.
12 My question is: How are we going to spend it?
13 Is anyone talking about that? Has anyone brought this
14 up? Who is going to make those decisions? Is the
15 Planning Commission? The City Council?
16 The City Council. Are they going to appoint an
17 oversight committee to help them? Are we going improve
18 the firefighters? Hire more police, more teachers?
19 How are we going to spend that money? Does
20 anybody know? Does anybody know how we are going to
21 spend that money?
22 We have an opportunity here.
23 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you very much.
24 PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE: I'm sorry,
25 Mr. Chairman, could we ask for a little respect for
Page 45 1 these speakers so we don't --
2 MR. HOFFMAN: With all due respect to everyone,
3 I personally would appreciate if we all remember we are
4 residents of the City of Hermosa Beach. One of the
5 warnings that was given about this whole project in the
6 Health Impact Assessment that I'm not supposed to side
7 division within the community. I am one of many who
8 look at that's not the case, regardless of the outcome
9 of this proposal.
10 DAMON NAGAMI: John good evening. Damon
11 Nagami. I'm a senior attorney with the Natural
12 Resources Defense Council. I'm involved with the
13 National Environmental Organization with more than
14 1.4 million numbers of activists, several thousand of
15 who live in greater Los Angeles area.
16 Thank you for this opportunity to comment on
17 the draft EIR for the oil drilling production project.
18 We have been actively engaged in the CEQA
19 project and we will be submitting written comments
20 before the deadline. I just want to make some brief
21 comments here tonight.
22 I think everyone knows that this project has
23 had a long and complicated history. Part of what's come
24 out of this is that we don't have garden variety CEQA
25 process. I think Commissioner Hoffman nailed it.
Page 46 1 The process of the settlement agreement set up
2 makes the elector, the voters of Hermosa Beach the
3 ultimate decision makers on this project.
4 Among the many purposes of CEQA are to inform
5 decision makers about the public about the potential
6 significant environmental impact of the project,
7 identify ways that the environmental damage can be
8 avoided or reduced, and prevent significant and
9 avoidable damage to the environment by requiring
10 alternatives or mitigation measures wherever feasible.
11 In other words, the purpose of this EIR is to
12 let the voters of Hermosa Beach know what project's
13 significant impacts are and whether those impacts can be
14 avoided or mitigated so they can be educated about the
15 project when they vote on it.
16 We have some concerns about the EIR's adequacy
17 and informational document. And we will raise those
18 concerns and written comments with the attempt that the
19 document will come out stronger in the end.
20 We would also note, however, that the draft EIR
21 accurately finds that this project will have significant
22 and unavoidable impacts in eight different categories;
23 esthetics, air quality, biology, hydrology, land use,
24 noise, recreation, and safety and risk upset. This
25 rightly led the proposed project not being chosen as the
Page 47 1 environmental superior alternative.
2 Even if you are not familiar with the EIR,
3 there's a one-page chart where all of this is laid out
4 in the EIR. You can see that all these significant and
5 unavoidable impacts are there.
6 Let me repeat that. Eight categories of
7 significant and unavoidable impacts. An enclosed
8 project is not environmental superior alternative.
9 If I were a Hermosa Beach City Council member
10 or a Planning Commission member, as an elected official
11 with the project being cited, I have serious concerns
12 about this project.
13 But in the end neither the Council nor the
14 Planning Commission has the final say. The voters do.
15 And I think this EIR gives the voters a lot to think
16 about when it comes to the impact of this project.
17 Thank you.
18 PERSON IN YELLOW SUIT: (Did not sign in, nor
19 said one word.)
20 JIM SULLIVAN: Tough act to follow. Name is
21 Jim Sullivan. I live on 8th Street. I'm a 32-year
22 resident of Hermosa Beach.
23 I am here this evening to speak to the issues
24 of addressing the EIR. I'm also here to speak to the
25 oil recovery project, and to explain why I believe it
Page 48 1 presents a unique opportunity for Hermosa Beach to fund
2 the city's critical infrastructure project, to support
3 our schools, and maybe most importantly to secure our
4 city's financial future decades to come.
5 But first I would like to address some of the
6 city's needs that I have compiled from a couple of
7 different sources.
8 From Phase II of the Community Dialogue Finance
9 Subroot Report, I learned the city has currently has 29
10 filled positions; such as assistant fire chief,
11 community resources director, human resources director,
12 Public Works inspector, three police officers, three
13 paramedics, plus assorted engineers and mechanics.
14 I learned from this same report the city has
15 between 108 and $117 million in unfunded capital
16 improvement projects. Such as new sewer, costing $14
17 million. Storms and water run-off upgrades for a
18 million. Park upgrades, 15 million. Community center
19 comes to 9 million. New police station, 11 million.
20 Fire station, five million. City hall, 11 million.
21 The same report says the city is currently
22 spending a million dollars a year, although Public Works
23 says it's only 600,000, just to stay ahead of the sewer
24 system deterioration to prevent what is euphemistically
25 called spillage incident. Or in laymen's terms, law,
Page 49 1 untreated sewage seeping out of failed sewer lines
2 beneath our city.
3 Mind you, none of this money, this million
4 dollars, currently addresses the problem. It is our
5 annual million dollar Band-Aid expenditure.
6 Coincidentally, just today the Beach Report
7 published on its front page a story about the report
8 presented to our City Council this past Tuesday evening
9 by the International City County Management Association,
10 or ICMA.
11 By their consultant wherein the report
12 recognizes hiring more police officers and firefighters.
13 I quote from the story. "The ICMA recommended 10
14 additional police officers, dedicated code enforcement
15 personnel, and technology upgrades for the police
16 department."
17 On the fire department side, the ICMA
18 recommended a civilian fire marshall perhaps to be
19 shared with Manhattan Beach, a new division fire chief
20 for training and support purposes, six additional
21 firefighters and paramedics to achieve maximum service
22 levels.
23 ICMA also noted a need for new emergency
24 services building in the near future; meaning, fire
25 department, police headquarters.
Page 50 1 Lastly, the report goes on to say it will now
2 be up to the department to determine optimal funding and
3 staffing requests backed by the study's finding. The
4 City Council would approve the request, and the city's
5 residents to determine service levels they expect.
6 If the budget -- and I am quoting here. "If
7 the budgets do not increase it may be contingent upon
8 residents, and the city can lose its level of
9 expectation." Okay. Fair enough.
10 So now that these needs have been laid out,
11 what's next? What's missing aside from the money to
12 accomplish any of this?
13 Leadership. In my opinion, the city needs
14 leadership. Leadership from, you, Planning Commission.
15 Leadership from the City Council. Leadership from city
16 staff. And most importantly leadership from the members
17 of our community.
18 We need people willing to stand up and speak
19 the truth, willing to confront the issues, willing to
20 take unpopular stands, willing to be criticized fairly
21 and unfairly, willing to let go of the idea that
22 everyone will be thrilled by the difficult choices that
23 must be made. And among our City Council members the
24 willingness to forego the election.
25 I haven't exactly gotten to the EIR. I not
Page 51 1 sure the EIR addresses any of what I brought up. But it
2 should. Thank you.
3 MR. HOFFMAN: As we've got some new folks
4 lining up, when you come up please remember to sign your
5 name here so that we can keep track of what you say and
6 what's recorded. Thanks.
7 BRANDON GERSH: Thank you for having me. I'm
8 an outsider. I'm from Woodland Hills. I have no home
9 surf break, but I would like to think of Hermosa Beach
10 as one of my home surf breaks.
11 MR. HOFFMAN: I would like to say your welcome
12 but...
13 BRANDON GERSH: It's okay. I understand.
14 I'm also a law student. I am concerned about
15 the EIR and some of the points that are raised and not
16 raised.
17 My first concern is, the EIR mentioned that
18 fracking will not occur in the A and B project.
19 Additionally, the EIR also states that redrilling is
20 unlikely, and that a maximum of 30 redrills will
21 concern.
22 My concern is that in the event that things
23 change, A and B perhaps needs to expand the project,
24 that the community will not have an opportunity to
25 oppose this in the event that a subsequent EIR is not
Page 52 1 granted.
2 However, I would like to see the final EIR
3 address this and perhaps state this fracking or
4 redrilling -- the number of redrilling will be limited
5 or that the approval would be conditioned upon those
6 things not occurring.
7 Additionally, I'm also concerned that past
8 wells are not considered as a cumulative impact in the
9 EIR. This is a major concern because some of the old
10 wells such as stinted No. 1 is about 90 -- 80 to 90
11 years old. It could be decaying, and we could have
12 vertical migration into the ground water.
13 Additionally, I'm concerned that the Herondo
14 Street passageway that's mentioned in the hydrology
15 section, 4.9, does not have much information about the
16 capacity it will have when their alternatives will have
17 greater capacity or better technology available. So I'm
18 asking that more information be provided on that.
19 Lastly, the EIR mentions that as many as 30
20 redrillings will occur. However, it does not provide an
21 explanation of this process, what the impact of the
22 redrilling will be.
23 And those are my comments. Thank you for
24 having me here.
25 ROGER LIGHT: Hi. My name is Roger Light. I'm
Page 53 1 a clinical neuropsychologist. I'm actually from
2 Redondo.
3 But what I want to talk about is air pollution
4 and the affect it has on health. I was talking about
5 this study of the brain and human behavior after impact
6 of neurotoxins on the brain.
7 Unfortunately air pollution doesn't know city
8 boundaries. It will go everywhere.
9 Couple of things. When I was in grade school
10 39 on the years ago, autism was about one in a thousand.
11 It's now one in 68. Big part of that is the impact of
12 neurotoxins on the development of fetus in-utero.
13 Yes, the methane leak and all the other kinds
14 of air pollutants that you will get from drilling are
15 not the most severe air pollutant there is out there.
16 But our friend here with the gas mask, we may
17 not all be that far off to consider that kind of
18 protection for our pregnant women that are subjected to
19 air pollutants.
20 I just want you to keep in mind that brain
21 development in the elderly, dementia, things such as
22 that, and all of these things have been shown to be
23 associated with exposure to air pollutants such as they
24 come from projects like this.
25 And I'm not talking about the smell. I'm
Page 54 1 talking about the toxin that will be emitted by the
2 drilling. So keep that in mind when you're voting in
3 November.
4 MARCELO KRAUS: My name is Marcelo Kraus. I'm
5 a resident of Plaza Hermosa since 2000. I would like to
6 talk about a couple of things.
7 Number one, I would like the report to
8 differentiate -- what's the difference between
9 directional drilling and fracking? Because every time
10 we try to look up what directional drilling is, we
11 always come up with fracking. So if they can somehow in
12 the report include that, that would be wonderful.
13 The second thing is that I don't think it's
14 reasonable for an average individual to read 1500 pages
15 of highly technical language and be able to make an
16 informed voting decision.
17 I think maybe all three reports should include,
18 you know, three, five, 10 pages, or a summary that stand
19 alone that can be in plain English so people can
20 understand what these reports are saying.
21 I think if you want to get into details, you
22 can go and read all 1500 pages if you want. But if they
23 could include something that is basic for an average
24 individual to understand, I think that would be
25 wonderful. Thank you very much.
Page 55 1 MIKE COLLINS: Good evening, Chairman Hoffman
2 and Commissioner. My name is Mike Collins. I live at
3 520 8th Street. I'm a long-time resident of Hermosa
4 Beach. This is my friend Barbara Ellman. She lives on
5 Wilma. I don't know her address.
6 Before I get started, I would just like to say
7 that I hope one of the results of everybody being here
8 tonight is that the Planning Commission is actually
9 given a voice in this process and that what you think
10 and what you believe and what you come to understand
11 about this project is something that is officially
12 considered when the City Council starts to weigh in on
13 this.
14 I'm here tonight to actually talk about the
15 draft EIR, and I'll try not to be political. So I'm
16 concerned about the ground flare. I've heard it called
17 the ground flare, and I've heard it called the gas
18 combustion.
19 The imagine that Barbara is holding up is
20 actually taken from the draft EIR. You can find it in
21 three places. You can find it on page 2-27, 2-43, and
22 2-63. It is a plan for the project. It was probably
23 submitted by an applicant. And we have laid it over the
24 city so you can see where the project is and what the
25 looks like as proposed.
Page 56 1 Here in the corner is the ground flare. That's
2 one of the things that I'm particularly concerned about
3 with the safety risk and potential risk for upset.
4 It troubles me because the emissions from this
5 project will be from crude oil, combustion products. It
6 includes xylene, benzene, and more. The presence of
7 these compounds will increase the cancer risk of the
8 people living directly downwind and around this project
9 site.
10 I ask that they amend the document to reflect
11 the exact nature of the ground flare and include a
12 discussion regarding the additional safety hazards
13 associated with the use of ground flare as opposed to
14 the more traditional flares that are 300 feet above the
15 population.
16 I've heard from people in the oil and gas
17 industry say the reason that they will use them is
18 because what comes out of the ground flare is
19 particularly nasty, and you don't want that near in
20 general population.
21 One possibility to mitigate it would be to
22 remove the ground flare and put an above ground flare on
23 the highest point in Hermosa Beach. I think that would
24 be possible.
25 The gas combustors and the tanks are also less
Page 57 1 than 20 feet from the property line. Gas combustors are
2 also next to storage tanks. Right? That distance does
3 not meet CAL/OSHA, NFPA requirements, or the American
4 Petroleum Association requirements for that. Crude oil
5 has boil-over characteristics. So it's treated as more
6 reactive than other oils.
7 So I would like to see a document amended to
8 discuss the rationale behind the placement of these
9 tanks and the placements of these gas combustors. And I
10 want know if it's an actual reality for this project.
11 Or like the speaker said before, when this thing starts
12 to go through various committee processes --
13 Can I have your two minutes? Thank you.
14 So I would just like to know then if it's
15 reality or what can be agreed upon to make it more safe.
16 Like Johnny Lang said before, and this is also
17 from the draft EIR, figure 4.86 shows what we started
18 joking and calling the Red Zone, they Yellow Zone, and
19 the Blue Line, which is the Black Zone.
20 If that thing was to explode the way it
21 possibly could, and I know it's a small risk, and I know
22 the oil company is saying that it's such a small risk
23 that it shouldn't be considered as a significant and
24 unavoidable impact, I live in the Red Zone. Barbara
25 lives in the Red Zone. Johnny Lang lives in the Red
Page 58 1 Zone. J.R. Revicky lives in the Red Zone. Kevin Motuso
2 lives in the Red Zone. Michael Binder lives in the Red
3 Zone. Sumone Binder lives in the Red Zone. Phil Fredo
4 lives in the Red Zone. A lot of people live in the Red
5 Zone.
6 We're the people that if the worse case
7 scenario happens, we're the people that melt. We're the
8 people that are decimated. It's insulting if somebody
9 says that the risk isn't that big. Thank you.
10 LOGAN ALLEN: (Could barely hear this
11 gentleman. Extremely soft-spoken) I want to thank you
12 for being here tonight. And specially I think that
13 having an open vote really encourages public
14 participation which we don't see enough.
15 It's a very controversial topic. It's very
16 emotionally charged, as we just heard. So I'll try to
17 focus on just the facts and the issue. It's tough to
18 separate that from other parts as life is considered
19 here.
20 So in trying to do that, I look at the real
21 tangible benefits, detriments, all of that. I don't
22 want to weigh too heavily on the idea of what fear
23 brings about. Because I understand that people have
24 very legitimate concerns. I understand why they have
25 them.
Page 59 1 But I want to weigh more heavily on that and
2 focus more on that than it is reasonable. I look to the
3 city yard which I want to go check out myself just to
4 see where the site is going to be. It doesn't look
5 excellent. I think anybody can agree on that.
6 It's my understanding that there's oil
7 contamination, which nobody here is really talking about
8 when there was a proposed drilling site. It's my
9 understanding the company has offered to clean all that
10 up. It's a proposed project. I appreciate that.
11 I spoke a week or two ago and told you that my
12 parents are both in the law enforcement and have been
13 for my entire life. This has already been laid out to
14 you about the firefighters, police officers in this
15 area. I appreciate that real tangible benefit.
16 So I look to the good of this project, what it
17 can do. And I do consider this. But I consider what I
18 think is an appropriate issue. I would ask that we be
19 more pro-active so we can have a reasonable debate about
20 that, and not do kind of hyperbole tree flags from the
21 city's decision.
22 So as it stands right now I support the
23 project. I think I might be ridiculed for that very
24 thing. I hope as time goes along we can come to have a
25 reasonable, informed debate, discussion, and make an
Page 60 1 informed decision.
2 So I would like to see what benefits we can
3 get. I think our way is hyperbolic residents.
4 MR. ALLEN: I have a question. What is your
5 name and where do you live?
6 LOGAN ALLEN: Logan Allen. I live on Ocean.
7 JAN RICE: Good evening. My name is Jan Rice.
8 I'm a marine and coastal scientist with non-profit Heal
9 the Bay. We're a local non-profit that has been in the
10 Santa Monica Bay for almost 30 years. We focus on water
11 quality and the health of the ocean and public health.
12 Tomorrow you are going to be receiving a
13 38-page detailed comment letter on the draft EIR.
14 Several of our staff members and outside experts have
15 reviewed the EIR, our comment letter, along with other
16 environmental issues in the community.
17 I just wanted to highlight a few parts of the
18 EIR that really spoke to me, and I think would resonate
19 with many of the residents of Hermosa Beach, and also
20 suggest a few areas of the average that should add
21 strength in the next reiteration.
22 The man before me spoke about facts. So I will
23 stick to the facts.
24 The propose project has a very real potential
25 of oil spills, upward in the 34 percent chance as stated
Page 61 1 in section 4.3 and 4.8. A 34 percent chance. That's a
2 pretty good risk if we're looking at risks.
3 As a marine scientist, I deal mostly in the
4 biological section. Many pages comment on that. But I
5 would like to highlight a couple of areas.
6 One of them is that we recommend the City of
7 Hermosa Beach into the discussion of impact of oil
8 spills and weapons; specifically, Malibu, and the sand
9 dunes in Santa Monica Bay.
10 Many times in the EIR it says that there are
11 several common areas. We want that area to be
12 specified. The oil spills, if they get to the ocean, do
13 not know boundaries. Many people mentioned Chevron
14 offshore oil tankers which we also viewed that the EIR
15 2010 say, "We'll do our best to get back to the less
16 damaging project."
17 That comment has oil spills to reach all the
18 way up to Malibu Bay. So oil spills here also have that
19 potential. We really feel like the potential impact to
20 weapons should not be underscored enough.
21 In addition, I wanted to -- the EIR does a good
22 job of touching on many aspects of the impact of
23 biological resources. He said they are unavoidable and
24 significant if a spill happens. 34 percent chance.
25 However, we feel like it needs to be beefed up
Page 62 1 in the area of reacting to an oil spill recovery and
2 clean up. These disbursements of other chemicals are
3 used in oil spill accomplices. We recommend that the
4 EIR use special chemicals used in cleaning up associated
5 with the wild life and mitigation measures.
6 We have seen some other oil spills and cleanups
7 that are similar to the actual oil spill as well. So
8 it's important that the response demand is adequate.
9 Finally, I wanted to touch on the geological
10 resources. My husband is a Ph.D. sedimentary geologist.
11 He said one of the main things he's worried about is the
12 liquefaction because it's an offshore oil drill site.
13 Thank you.
14 IATIANNA GEUR: My name is Iatianna Geur. I'm
15 an attorney with a L.A. law firm. I work throughout
16 L.A. County. Our mission is to protect the water
17 quality emission from all sorts of pollution. That
18 means ground water and surface water.
19 We have been paying attention to this project.
20 And really our concern just like with any other oil
21 drilling in the L.A. is the potential for impact on the
22 surface water and ground water. And probably a lot of
23 you know most of our water body here in L.A. County are,
24 in fact, impaired. This means they are severely
25 affecting the water quality limits.
Page 63 1 So in addition, just from a very practical and
2 human standpoint, we are talking about drilling in the
3 vicinity which is very close to the beaches, densely
4 populated areas, and really any such project should be
5 given the utmost attention.
6 But for now the focus of my comment here and my
7 main concern is the protection of water resources. As
8 was mentioned earlier, CEQA's mandates and goal is to
9 give full disclosure of all potential significant and
10 environmental impact so that it will be able for the
11 public and decision makers to make an important decision
12 on a particular project and select the one that is best
13 for the environment. So that is really the goal.
14 Of course, we are going through a balancing
15 act. And you will be. And the voters will be. But at
16 the end of the day we have to know all the facts. And
17 we have to make sure whatever project we approve is the
18 best for the environment.
19 Unfortunately, our review the draft EIR tells
20 us that, currently as written, it fails to comply with
21 CEQA and to the significant revise at least with respect
22 to water resource impact. For example, the EIR failed
23 to (her voice broke) of all water bodies that we are
24 submitting that could be impacted by the project.
25 Some attention is given to ground water but no
Page 64 1 attention to, for example, the benefit oil uses and
2 water quality standards of Santa Monica Bay and the
3 beaches which are near.
4 In addition, some of the potential for oil
5 spills and well casing failures which was discussed
6 earlier, the EIR should be advised to analyze the
7 connection between polluted ground water which may occur
8 in cases of well casing failure and surface water. As
9 you know, those two are connected. They're not really
10 like one water moving back and forth. That should be
11 analyzed it, and it isn't.
12 Next on my list, and I'm just focusing on some
13 of my comments. My comments will be submitted in a
14 letter. Full disclosure of chemicals and additives that
15 will be added, injected back into the wells after the
16 produced water is treated. That should be analyzed.
17 Right now we don't know what those chemicals will do.
18 The focus of our work has been a lot of storm
19 water pollution. And we believe that the construction
20 A and B, the construction phase of the project are not
21 analyzed adequately. They should be specified for each
22 phase of this part of the project and specific to that
23 phase.
24 Finally --
25 MR. HOFFMAN: I'm going to have to ask you
Page 65 1 to --
2 IATIANNA GEUR: I'm sorry. I'm done. Okay.
3 Thank you.
4 MR. HOFFMAN: They were giving you more time.
5 You have four more minutes. My apologies.
6 IATIANNA GEUR: Oh, that's okay. I was
7 actually about to finish.
8 But at the end of the day we do think that the
9 impact of the project as they stand and the location
10 frankly is so significant. And we just -- even after
11 revision, I'm not sure we will be at a point where this
12 project will be considered safe for the environment and
13 safe for the community. Thank you.
14 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
15 I hate to do this to you, gentlemen, who are
16 standing in line. Our court reporter needs to take a
17 break. We are going to pause here for five minutes.
18 THE REPORTER: Thank you.
19 (Whereupon a short recess was taken.)
20 MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. We are back.
21 One last comment is you're coming up; different
22 height, different people. If you can make sure you are
23 speaking as close as possible into the mike. That will
24 help.
25 Again, this for everybody who don't know, this
Page 66 1 is being broadcasted as well and will be available for
2 anyone who maybe catching it at a good point, going to
3 the city website, the archive video to see the video of
4 any of these people, including counsel and other
5 commissioners.
6 All right. With that we will resume. Give us
7 your name.
8 TOM MALONE: Good evening. My name is Tom
9 Malone. My wife and I bought our property here in the
10 south end of Hermosa in 1978. I would like to make a
11 number of comments dealing with the EIR and related
12 issues.
13 It was mentioned previously the EIR points out
14 eight categories of significant and unavoidable
15 consequences to the oil drilling.
16 There are a number of concerns about the extent
17 of what's going to be going on. As it was mentioned,
18 nearly 50 percent of the city's residents live within
19 one half mile of the proposed drilling site.
20 There will be 30 wells to 34 wells. 15 story
21 towers. There are two towers. I think one is 12, one
22 the 15. In any event, the down side to all of this, the
23 activity, other people have talked about the
24 transportation problems, the trucks going in and out,
25 the fumes emanating from the site are going to be an
Page 67 1 impact on tourism. A definite impact on loss of
2 property values.
3 And keep in mind that within one half mile
4 literally half of the people, half of the people in
5 Hermosa live at that site.
6 The other concern that I think is even more
7 major are the health issues which contaminate from the
8 pollution hazards that's going on at the site. And
9 they're not talking yet about the possibility of an oil
10 spill or disaster.
11 Oil drilling and removal, no matter how it's
12 done, it is fraught with potential disaster. There are
13 a number of major disasters. Somebody was talking about
14 the Exxon Valdez, the disaster in the Gulf which was an
15 oil platform. By the way, just to correct him, it was
16 an oil platform explosion. It was not leaking
17 underground.
18 But locally in Southern California, this is my
19 concern, what has the record been? I'm not going into
20 great detail. But we're talking about Santa Barbara.
21 We're talking about Avalon Beach. Unicol Oil in Avalon
22 Beach dumped 22,000 gallons underground that is
23 completely soiled, the downtown area under the major
24 beaches of Avalon Beach. And it literally stopped for
25 years business mortgage companies would make, and no
Page 68 1 buying and selling properties there for many years.
2 It's a very, very serious incident.
3 Right now we're talking about an article that
4 appeared last month in the L.A. Times that the
5 University Park in Los Angeles, which is one half mile
6 from the USC campus, they -- and I'm going to quote a
7 couple of things from the article in the L.A Times.
8 MR. HOFFMAN: Very quickly if you can.
9 TOM MALONE: Okay. The U.S. Environment
10 Protection Agency formally accused a South Los Angeles
11 operation of putting the health and safety nearby
12 residents at risk. The EPA investigation was prompted
13 by complaints of respiratory ailments and nose bleeds
14 that residents blamed on fumes that were emitted by the
15 landfill.
16 The company of University Park's oil extraction
17 operation on land the company leases from the
18 archdiocese of Los Angeles.
19 It goes on to say they are being investigated
20 by the city attorney. The air quality management
21 district says the oil gas resources will affect the
22 public health, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
23 These complaints continue. And this is all
24 affecting people living one half mile of that site, of
25 that drilling site. This would have serious
Page 69 1 consequences if we have similar problems with A and B
2 oil extraction.
3 I am very, very concerned going forward, that
4 this is the wrong thing should this in any way be
5 proposed in Hermosa Beach. Thank you very much.
6 PETER SHELLENBARGER: Good evening. Name is
7 Peter Shellenbarger. I'm a water quality scientist with
8 Heal the Bay. I'm going to read some direct quotes from
9 the draft EIR. And then I have some comments about
10 them.
11 The draft EIR reads, "The Palos Verdes and
12 Newport faults lie approximately two miles southwest and
13 six miles northeast of the project site."
14 "Both of these faults are active and capable of
15 producing severe seismicity-induced ground shaking at
16 the project site. Potential seismic impact and
17 associated damage to structures from a major earthquake
18 on a nearby Newport, Inglewood and Palos Verdes faults
19 or any other regional faults would be considered
20 significant."
21 That's straight from the draft EIR.
22 Damage to the project infrastructure is a huge
23 concern. The proposed project, as planned, has multiple
24 on-site storage tanks to hold/produce water, oil and gas
25 during extraction.
Page 70 1 During a proposed -- during an earthquake these
2 tanks may rupture causing huge volumes of water, produce
3 water, oil and gas leakage.
4 Other proposed project plans mitigate to
5 contain soil failure, the plans show that mitigation is
6 only going to contain 110 percent of the largest on-site
7 tanks. That's one tank.
8 If multiple tank failures were to occur during
9 a single or multiple seismic catastrophe, the project
10 would not be able to hold these volumes. Produced water
11 and oil would be released from the project site. Toxic
12 pollutants would also end up in our coastal water.
13 The environmental impact for multiple tank
14 failure is not addressed in the draft EIR. It should
15 be.
16 Oil contamination along this coastline would
17 have a huge impact to our local economy. The Santa
18 Monica Bay, this is a $10 billion industry. So it a
19 really big impact in the Santa Monica Bay.
20 I have injection well comments. This is --
21 again, the draft EIR reads, "The proposed project sites
22 are located along the western edge of the west coast
23 basin. The west coast basin is one of the largest
24 basins of the coastal plane, ground water basin.
25 Two million residents of coast to coast depend on ground
Page 71 1 water for approximately 35 disposable water."
2 "The injection wells that pass through fresh
3 water deposits creating potentially water quality impact
4 as a result of oil leakage or innvertive (phonetic)
5 hydration of waste water from the point of injection
6 upward through formation. As a result crack-outs.
7 That's what it's called. There's uncontrolled leakage
8 that's produced from the water formation. This is on
9 page 4, 14, 12."
10 The proposed project water supply is a huge
11 concern. The possibility of crack-out occurring along
12 the injection well has a capacity to degrade the water
13 that the region depends daily."
14 It's extremely unclear in the draft EIR where
15 the injection wells, as well as production wells will be
16 sited. It will be offshore mostly; north, south of the
17 Hermosa Beach. It's very, very unclear.
18 It's also noted that onshore injection wells
19 are going to be happening, and we have no idea of the
20 depth of these injections and where they are.
21 The draft EIR states -- oh, yeah. And there
22 are no maps. So I have no idea looking at the draft EIR
23 where these are going to be occurring. These need to be
24 included. Maps need to be included in the final EIR, as
25 well as these injection well locations.
Page 72 1 The proximity to the use for water supply and
2 the depth of the targeted injection well, reservoirs
3 used for waste waters disposals.
4 Additionally, the amount of waste water
5 produced on a daily basis is a concern. It appears the
6 draft EIR proposes that two to one ratio of produced
7 water can produce oil in the fields in the L.A. region.
8 You will see a 9 to 10 to 1 ratio produce oil -- or
9 produce water to oil. So that's a big concern. I'm not
10 really sure how the draft EIR came up with this number.
11 Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you.
12 Those are my comments.
13 MR. HOFFMAN: As former council member and
14 Mayor Bowler is signing in, I would like to remind
15 everyone it seems that time constraints are cutting
16 people off. I will remind everyone that you can submit
17 an unlimited -- really, an unlimited written comment
18 tonight. And I certainly encourage everyone to do that
19 at this point. And make sure your comments are
20 incorporated to the EIR.
21 Mayor Bowler.
22 JOHN BOWLER: Thank you, gentlemen.
23 John Bowler. 833 Hermosa Avenue. I joke that
24 I have been a resident shortly after they put the ocean
25 in 30 years ago. More like 40 years.
Page 73 1 I had the honor of serving with J.R. for eight
2 those 16 years that he referenced and went through the
3 entire McPherson oil debacle. I had a chip -- I won't
4 choose the word on that. I ended up casting --
5 certainly decided on casting the vote that cancelled
6 that project. And I did so based on the safety issues
7 that J.R. referenced, the 701 casualties.
8 So clearly the safety of our oil project is the
9 primary concern.
10 Another thing I wanted to say, I notice our
11 stickers here say "Protect Hermosa's Future." But in
12 reality that's what we're really all here about. We're
13 just trying to figure out what's the best and the most
14 effective way to go about that.
15 And before I do that, I would like to
16 compliment the audience tonight for their stability and
17 respect for each other. Having gone through the first
18 hearings, we didn't have a lot of that. So the change
19 is remarkable and well welcomed.
20 I just want to speak specifically to a couple
21 of issues on the EIR, primarily with transportation
22 issues. It seems that any time we get into the
23 discussion of transporting oil from the site to wherever
24 it goes, that the hyperbole of demographics branch out
25 to Exxon Valdez coming down Valley Drive.
Page 74 1 The reality is -- I'm referencing 4.8, Safety
2 Risk, Risk of Upset and Hazard. 4.811 says
3 "Transportation by pipeline is one of the safest forms
4 of transportation for oil and gas." It goes on to say,
5 "The greatest risk for pipelines is third-party damage."
6 Now, to point out that A and B doesn't agree to
7 encase their pipeline in another exterior pipe which
8 virtually makes that impossible to damage or reduce it
9 to the near impossibility. So the pipeline itself, they
10 have -- the changes that they have recommended make it
11 remarkably safe. I hope that would be noted in the
12 final EIR.
13 The other issue, 4.13.6.2 deals with the truck
14 traffic. First of all, I live on Hermosa Avenue. I
15 would pray for the day when I've got 16 trucks to come
16 by my house. 16 beer trucks to come up front. It is
17 not the apocalypse to have trucks driving by your house.
18 The thing that we're talking about, 18 trucks,
19 16 trucks a day is only for the period when they are
20 removing the soil from the project. And that's soil,
21 not oil that's going down the street during the initial
22 phase.
23 After that -- excuse me.
24 Thank you.
25 That's greatly reduced. In their tables to go
Page 75 1 along with that, there's really no comparison with the
2 existing traffic already. So how much is it a step up
3 from what is already the traffic going by that area.
4 The table 4.14.7, I don't blame these people
5 for being confused. I read the EIR. I have no idea
6 what that one says. I think it can be reworded to make
7 it clear what the real traffic issues are there. How
8 many truck traffic? Make it simply by trucks and not
9 divide it how many axles and blah, blah, blah just so
10 that everyone can understand what it is.
11 Again, I want to thank everyone for their
12 stability and for the respect they are showing each
13 other. I hope we go through with this the whole
14 process. Thank you.
15 MR. HOFFMAN: Reminding everyone again to sign
16 your name when you come up here on that list. Please
17 understand that the court reporter is challenged by the
18 fact that people are talking away from her. She can't
19 see their lips, much less, John's mustache. We
20 appreciate your valiant efforts.
21 JEFF KRAG: Good evening. My name is Jeff
22 Krag. I live on 8th Street in Hermosa Beach.
23 I'm an accomplished chemical engineer for over
24 30 years working in and around eight years with
25 hydrocarbon property equipment.
Page 76 1 Generally, I've always been supportive of
2 responsible development, of natural resources governed
3 by prudent laws and regulations. However, the magnitude
4 and complexity of the proposed project appears
5 inconsistent and incompatible with the proximity to and
6 the density of the nearby sentiments in the community.
7 I've been deeply reviewing the A and B
8 project's description and their risk assessment, the EIR
9 risk assessment. And even after reading some of the
10 documents over three decades, I find this document
11 elusive, not easy to understand the exact risk scenarios
12 and the specific mitigation being proposed.
13 For those of you in the audience that are
14 having trouble reading the EIR, I share with you that
15 having a chemical engineering degree, understanding the
16 terms and understanding the engineering concepts does
17 not make reading the EIR any easier.
18 Risks are described at length and potential
19 options to mitigation. But they lack a tight connection
20 between the risks involved and those proposals that
21 mitigate their impact.
22 The suggested area is too lengthy to discuss
23 here. That's why I plan to submit specific areas in the
24 EIR regarding additional work provided by the comment
25 period.
Page 77 1 The areas will include event risk assessment,
2 event risk assessment methodology and protocol, toxic
3 commission health impact, incompatible crane operation,
4 inadequate buffer zone to the plant boundary, density in
5 process of equipment and siting, and flare-sizing and
6 location.
7 Thanks for the opportunity to participate in
8 the process this evening. And I look forward to
9 continued involvement. Again, my name is Jeff Krag, and
10 I am no coward.
11 RAY DUSSAULT: My name is Ray Dussault. I live
12 on and 18th Street.
13 I can echo part of what this gentleman just
14 said. I'm a nuclear power plant engineer, and I still
15 have trouble reading the EIR. I think that could be one
16 of the biggest improvements. What we ask from the
17 consultant is to try to make the EIR more understandable
18 for everybody.
19 Some areas -- Johnny mentioned his kid watching
20 the little squirrels at the project site. It makes me
21 feel like maybe I don't know where the project site is.
22 That site right now is an eye soar. It's
23 poison coming through the asphalt preventing the
24 squirrels from playing there. So I would like to see
25 the EIR highlight better how it's going to be improved
Page 78 1 upon by having the oil drilling operation there.
2 I would also like to see the EIR provide
3 examples. There's been a lot of mention of significant
4 impact that can't be mitigated. I believe that coming
5 before you in the next year or two, if not already
6 started, are going to be large hotels projects on the
7 strand. I'm guessing that those projects will have
8 significant impact that cannot be mitigated.
9 What I would really like to see the EIR provide
10 some comparisons for people so that it's not just
11 isolated as if no other project in the world would ever
12 have significant impact.
13 There needs to be some -- you guys get it.
14 You've been going this for decades. So you get it. You
15 know that every project has significance. That's not to
16 say you're old. You get it. You understand that all
17 projects have significant impact.
18 But those of us who are lay people trying to
19 read this don't have that concept. And I would like to
20 see the EIR put more of that into context so there can
21 be less emotion-based arguments and more factual
22 arguments so that people have a better understanding, I
23 think, of the project.
24 Also I would like to see the EIR highlight what
25 the damage would be from raw sewage flowing into the
Page 79 1 ocean. Because we can't fix our really delapidated
2 sources.
3 Thank you for your time. And have a good
4 evening.
5 MR. HOFFMAN: I think I just heard a nuclear
6 engineer say he was a layperson.
7 SHERYL MAIN: Good evening. My name is Sheryl
8 Main. I'm a Hermosa Beach resident.
9 I want to thank you for holding this forum.
10 And I want to thank everyone who came here tonight for
11 speaking their minds and doing it in a significant
12 manner. I think that is -- we can thank you for that as
13 well, for maintaining that.
14 I read the draft EIR. It took me two weeks. I
15 can't say that I understood everything. But I felt that
16 I needed to read it and try to understand it because
17 it's going impact me in some way.
18 You know, I wasn't scared by it. But I was
19 intrigued. I keep coming back to this idea of what are
20 we willing to gamble in order to get what?
21 We know that right now without drilling we have
22 almost a zero chance of some catastrophic thing
23 happening. Once we start drilling or prepping and
24 excavating and trucking, and whatever, that changes,
25 clearly. It changes.
Page 80 1 No one can say that something is not going to
2 happen. No one can say something is going to happen.
3 But the evidence is clearly on the side of something
4 happening if we start drilling.
5 I hear people making jokes. You know, I know
6 that this has been a very touchy subject. People are
7 saying how it's tearing the city apart. It's not. It's
8 definitely not tearing the city apart.
9 The residents here are finding their voices.
10 We're speaking our minds. We're coming together. And
11 we're trying to find that common ground.
12 What's happening here is when somebody says
13 they are afraid because they are going to be impacted
14 health-wise, and someone says, "Well, you know, if
15 sewage flows into the ocean you're going to be impacted
16 as well." There's a difference, gentlemen. There's a
17 big difference.
18 I think we have to keep that in mind. When
19 someone says, "Well, they can build a mall and then
20 we're going to have impact." There's a difference
21 between a mall and drilling for oil.
22 When people speak about their health and their
23 concerns about their kids, they're not joking. It's not
24 because they want to be contrary. It's because they are
25 concerned. One thing happens, we're all going to be
Page 81 1 impacted. Not just the Red Zone.
2 I have friends who live there. I was in their
3 house looking out. They go, "Look." I'm like, "Holy
4 cow."
5 So you can say it's ugly. You can say, "It's
6 an ugly area but we're going to fix it up." But what
7 are we going to do? What are the plans if something
8 happens? If something happens, what are we going to do?
9 How are we be going to clean that up? And how are we
10 going to mitigate that? I don't think that's possible.
11 Again, we're finding our voices. Everyone is
12 having their moment, which I think is really good.
13 Outside of someone telling me that we're going to get
14 money, I don't understand what the value is. Because if
15 money is all we're concerned about, I'm thinking in 50
16 years money isn't even going to exist.
17 MIKE MATRONINI: My name is Mike Matronini. I
18 want to thank the commissioners, all of you, for being
19 here tonight. Thank you very much.
20 We obviously had an opportunity to look at the
21 draft EIR. We believe -- originally when we put the
22 project together, we believe we put it together, we know
23 state of the art facility. We met the safety
24 environment standard. We used what were common
25 threshold significant criteria to make those
Page 82 1 determinations. So I'm very proud of that application
2 package. And we are happy to submit that.
3 As you see with the draft EIR there were
4 significant findings in there. So we got that document.
5 Unlike most people, I have read the entire draft EIR.
6 And I really focused in on some major areas. Areas like
7 odors, pipeline spills, blowout scenario, and some
8 noise. Those are important issues. We felt we owed it
9 to the community and make sure we did the best we can do
10 there. So that's what we did.
11 We spent the last two months working with our
12 group of engineers and designers in coming up with ways
13 of how we can mitigate this project to a point where it
14 can be done safely and it can be done quietly.
15 So we're very happy we have already submitted
16 significant information to MRS related to that. I think
17 one of the items that was submitted was -- the pipeline
18 scenario is not a 34 percent chance of a spill as it
19 states there. But the bigger issue is that if you had a
20 spill on the corner of Herondo and Valley Drive, and
21 somebody dug it up, they had corrosion during a storm
22 event, that would be carried out to the ocean. So that
23 is a 0.4 percent chance of that happening over the life
24 of the project.
25 So our whole goal was put together a new
Page 83 1 pipeline design, which is basically pipe and pipe. All
2 those causal factors such as third-party damage and
3 corrosion, those are mitigated damages.
4 So we can drive those numbers way down and we
5 will see what they look like when we are done with it.
6 It's a pipeline that is not -- it's a design standard
7 above and beyond what you find with other pipelines.
8 Same thing with noise. We immediately identify
9 a piece of equipment. We're making the noise with that.
10 We're exceeding the noise standard. We put more stuff
11 on it. We ran the models. I believe we dealt with
12 that.
13 Same thing with odors. We found out features
14 of equipment, designs features from our project,
15 significant design features. Design features that you
16 don't find on normal oil and gas projects.
17 Where you have a closed room system and it only
18 takes care of the tank, the tank action from the bin is
19 a closed room system. The point of that is that you
20 don't emit stuff into the atmosphere and you prevent
21 odors.
22 So these are things that we submitted. We are
23 feeling very confident that once there's a re-draft of
24 this document we're going to see some change. We owe
25 that to the community. Thank you.
Page 84 1 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
2 CRAIG CADWALLADER: Good evening. My name is
3 Craig Cadwallader. I'm here to speak on behalf the
4 Surfrider Foundation of South Bay Panthers.
5 I won't repeat a lot of the things that have
6 been brought up here. There are a lot of people
7 involved in this process that are submitting written
8 comments who have also given some verbal comments. As
9 will we.
10 My major concern is an issue where there may be
11 potential offshore subsidence. In the applications
12 submitted by A and B, which I have read every page of,
13 if you look at the addendum and whatnot, it's somewhere
14 around 5300 pages. I have read every page of the draft
15 EIR. Not my most favorite thing. There are lot of
16 other things I rather do.
17 However, I am seriously concerned about
18 potential overlooked risks for the entire Santa Monica
19 Bay area. One of the issues that I thought was rather
20 strange was the fact that other cities, such as the City
21 of Manhattan Beach, are not looked at in the EIR. And I
22 think there are potential serious impacts that would
23 impact that city as well as others in the Santa Monica
24 Bay.
25 My concern with the offshore subsidence is
Page 85 1 centered around what the applicant has put for
2 monitoring measures, which I think are inadequate. And
3 I directly address that in our comments during the
4 smoking (phonetic) period. They were not addressed
5 properly, in our opinion, in the draft.
6 We don't read they're being a monitored in the
7 right places. We don't know where the oil is going to
8 be withdrawn from because we don't have a map of where
9 the drill heads will be located and removing oil. So we
10 don't feel the monitoring plan is adequate.
11 When I look back at the coastal commission
12 meeting notes from 1998 on McPherson they listed several
13 mandatory kind of things, which included some reports
14 that were produced that are not included in the
15 application by A and B, including some coastal
16 environments.
17 These were pointed out as important to the
18 coastal commission. But all of a sudden they've
19 disappear in the meantime. So I think those things have
20 been missed. They need to be put back in. They need to
21 be examined carefully.
22 For our members having the sea bottom recede
23 could interfere with all the surf breaks. It could
24 shorten the beach. It could have more water run-up with
25 sea level rise as a serious issue. We also have
Page 86 1 droughts that are causing some type of earth (phonetic)
2 submissions. So when you add it all together I
3 seriously hope it will be addressed. Thank you.
4 CHRIS MILLER: Hi. My name is Chris Miller.
5 My family moved to Hermosa when I was four.
6 Unfortunately I live in El Segundo right now.
7 I want to bring up El Segundo because there's
8 been a reference to how wonderful Chevron manages their
9 site. And I'll just give you a little example of
10 Chevron.
11 First of all, it's built over 100 years ago.
12 So they have half mile perimeter surrounding all of
13 their facility. They are bordered by the ocean,
14 Rosecrans, Sepulveda and Imperial. There is not
15 anywhere, anywhere where five feet is the border between
16 their production facility and people's businesses or
17 homes. So I'm just going to clarify that.
18 On a sidenote, politically Chevron owns
19 El Segundo. And I'm just going to bring this up because
20 environmentally I see all aspects of it. I may be
21 looking at the last five independent people here.
22 Because it's going to go a different way.
23 In El Segundo we write the city council person
24 or the Planning Commission. Your letters are answered
25 by Chevron. I'm not clear how much, you know, A and B
Page 87 1 according to all this talk is going to safe us from
2 ourselves.
3 We have been managing pretty well for over a
4 hundred years. We have have not needed -- our sewers
5 have come and gone. Our piers have come and gone. Our
6 schools were built by our residents. Suddenly we are in
7 dire straights without them.
8 I just want to add one other thing. Because I
9 actually have a husband who is a scientist who is in the
10 medical business. We have lots of friends who are
11 around gas.
12 I was approached by a friend of mine who got
13 called from A and B saying that when they get this
14 project would his company be interested in managing and
15 operating the system.
16 So I don't know how attached this should be,
17 A and B. Because somewhere down the line if I was them
18 I would sell it to anyone else who is interested in
19 having an ocean front.
20 But all that aside, now let me get back to what
21 I have prepared. In preparing my remarks, I used the
22 draft EIR to formulate my questions. I have a lot of
23 questions. I narrowed it down to three.
24 First, I cannot find any reference to my
25 concern for methane gas. Although not toxic, methane is
Page 88 1 extremely flammable made for an explosive mixture when
2 mixed with air. Will there be a baseline survey for
3 current public methane, soil, gas in the area, including
4 the site?
5 Are there plans for monitoring the soil, gas
6 emissions during the drilling and oil production phases?
7 It should not be in their little -- in the city yard.
8 It should be included within a perimeter at least a
9 thousand feet of a proposed project.
10 I couldn't find that. Obviously I didn't have
11 time to read 5,000 pages.
12 But my second concern is the hydrogen sulfate
13 which we know is --
14 PERSON IN AUDIENCE: You can have my time.
15 ANOTHER PERSON IN AUDIENCE: You can have all
16 of our time.
17 CHRIS MILLER: I will be quick.
18 Drastically affect your health.
19 While the Occupational Safety and Health
20 Administration, OSHA, provides stringent regulations for
21 all personnel working at well drilling locations where
22 there's concentrations of hydrogen sulfate.
23 Which, by the way, up to 100 parts per million
24 of hydrogen sulfate is lethal. In the EIR it states
25 that there will be up to those levels at this site.
Page 89 1 So according to OSHA, hydrogen sulfate;
2 flammable, colorless, gas, rotten egg odors, toxic to
3 humans in combination with other medical (phonetic)
4 sites.
5 Site operators are required to provide
6 employees warning signs, respiratory equipment
7 concentrating as a pre-emergency and containing
8 equipment.
9 Wibble (phonetic) who are operators provide the
10 residents, businesses and children of this areas with
11 the same respiratory equipment. It's just one more
12 example how this project is just too close to our homes
13 and the businesses to be safe. Okay?
14 Finally, when I requested more information
15 regarding the possibility of the proposed water injected
16 oil drilling project with MRS, they kind of said this is
17 concerned here. So I did my own investigation. And I
18 found that these nine reports from all over the country
19 where there has been a cost for concern.
20 So oil in this area is here because it's a
21 natural seepage from two earthquake fault lines that
22 traverse across the proposed drill site; the Redondo
23 fault line and Palos Verdes fault line.
24 With numerous reports several declared -- and
25 I'm going to submit these in writing. That have been
Page 90 1 reported throughout the country, and there is a list
2 here; Denver, Ohio, other locations. I would take --
3 solicit experts, including the United States geological
4 survey which states, "Induced events are frequent
5 enough, particularly large enough to increase seismic
6 hazards."
7 The summary continues. "Research projects
8 require better seismic numbers surrounding injection
9 levels at this time cannot estimate the probability of a
10 given injection oil inducing earthquakes." In other
11 words, a little bit more study is needed.
12 In my estimation I do not think Hermosa Beach
13 and the entire Santa Monica Bay should become a guinea
14 pig for the profits of A and B. The hazards rest mostly
15 on the residents that sit behind me.
16 Santa Monica Bay has in the last 25 years been
17 declared a marine sanctuary. And I don't know if any of
18 you -- if all of us are surfers, swimmers. We've seen
19 the return of the dolphins, seals. We've seen the sea
20 bass return to the kelp beds. Although this decision
21 will ultimately be made by the voters of this project,
22 it will affect everyone in our bay.
23 I would like to -- we live here because of the
24 amazing value of the area we live in. This proposal, in
25 my mind, will be the equivalent of somebody breaking
Page 91 1 apart my financial statement for the marbles. Only
2 creating money could endorse such an endeavor. Thank
3 you for your time. I really appreciate it.
4 MR. HOFFMAN: While we're waiting for him to
5 sign in, anyone who is watching or those of you here,
6 again, April 14th is the deadline for the written
7 communications, comments on this. And I encourage
8 everyone to put all of in writing. Get it to our
9 consultant through the city and let the responses be
10 appropriate for those.
11 JOHN ARBELAEZ: (Very difficult to understand)
12 Hi. My name is John Arbelaez. I'm an earthwork in the
13 oil and gas project. We appreciate you allow us to be
14 involved in the process and provide our feedback to the
15 City of Hermosa Beach.
16 Although the draft EIR addresses the impact of
17 the result of the conventional oil and gas extraction,
18 it failed to study the impact that comes from potential
19 income (phonetic) loss from the city with unconventional
20 extraction.
21 Although A and B has stated that unconventional
22 extraction issue would take place for the project;
23 however, it is necessary to fully understand all risks
24 as circumstances may change in the future that would
25 force unconventional extraction needs to be imposed.
Page 92 1 These practices include fracking and gravel fracking.
2 As we all have seen in the past, unfortunately
3 the oil industry has not been completely truthful when
4 it comes to these practices. Once the voters approve
5 this particular project, they think they have though go
6 to the state to understand the permits for fracking.
7 We ask that -- we wish to ensure the final EIR
8 cover all issue areas as required by the California
9 Environmental Quality Agent.
10 We also ask that a full life cycle analysis for
11 the development of the project including planning,
12 construction, production, transport, and the use of
13 hydrocarbons included in the final EIR, to include a
14 full and clear picture of the entire process.
15 Based on history and records of the
16 environmental health impact caused by the oil and gas
17 development, the significant possibility of this site's
18 drilling will be two dozen (phonetic) production in
19 waste water injection loss in the city will have a
20 detrimental impact on the environmental quality and
21 public health.
22 Any use of unconventional oil intimidation
23 (phonetic) more than exacerbates the issue called
24 unconventional revelation (phonetic) to the public
25 infrastructure and property of Hermosa Beach.
Page 93 1 It is essential for the city to consider
2 environmental impact of the standard oil and gas
3 development to protect the people, the economy and
4 environment of the city.
5 Here are just a few of the suggestions to
6 strengthen the proposed study.
7 Any ballot or measure allowing the
8 voter/elector to decide whether or not to approve the
9 project should be put on hold so the final EIR can see
10 the final EIR includes a complete study on all methods
11 of conventional and unconventional (UNCLEAR).
12 This is of particular importance since the
13 voters will also be improving development agreement
14 which will prevent the validation of the project by
15 anyone in the future. Thank you very much for your time
16 and allowing us to submit our comments.
17 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
18 BOB RASMUSSEN: My name is Bob Rasmussen. I
19 have been in this town for about 40 years in the real
20 estate business.
21 I've heard several of these people talk about
22 the geological issues, earthquakes and so on.
23 This town -- I have had to do a lot of this
24 work on the building I own here. The sandy soil here
25 does not transmit sheer forces for tearing the building
Page 94 1 apart or pipelines if there is an earthquake. If you
2 push on sand it doesn't do anything. It just gives a
3 bit.
4 You could notice in a town how many, let's say,
5 houses around hundred years old are still here right
6 now. A lot of them were torn down not for their own
7 problems but to be replaced for money. So I would say
8 that's an issue that they can look into. But it's not
9 really a danger for this project.
10 Now, next on the esthetics. The city is
11 allowed construction of many projects here. I live not
12 very far from the part of the structure from that one
13 year, about '98, '99.
14 It caused a little bit inconvenience and noise.
15 I practiced law and I worked in the daytime too in the
16 department. So I was there. I heard the driving. And
17 I agree. It caused a little bit of inconvenience with
18 this project here as it's been pointed out by some
19 people. We're subject to the city also. And it should
20 not be rejected just on the basis of a little
21 inconvenience.
22 Now, as far as transportation, how many trucks
23 go by? It was brought up, a beer truck. I would say a
24 garbage truck is a lot. I know in one of the documents
25 it said that there's -- well, there's that many garbage
Page 95 1 trucks going by through the town, different
2 neighborhoods at the present time.
3 Anyway I'll leave you with that. Thank you.
4 WALT KASHON: My name is Walt Kashon. I've
5 lived in Hermosa for about 23 years.
6 I found this place years and years ago because
7 it just was pristine. It had a feel to it that you
8 couldn't find anywhere else in the city. I loved it.
9 And I live on Ardmore between 1st Street and 1st Place.
10 So well within range of the proposed site.
11 Couple of things stood out to me when I was
12 looking at the EIR. One comment that was made from the
13 meeting was while we look at the EIR, and we then
14 decided how can we mitigate the issues that were raised?
15 My question is this. Why were these proposals
16 not done initially? Why wasn't the gulf enclosures for
17 the pipes done initially? Because it was a cost issue;
18 right? It's all about what can we do to get by with the
19 minimal cost.
20 Now, when people object where the EIR looks
21 like it's going to be a problem, now they come back and
22 they say, "Okay. We're going to have to raise the ante.
23 Were going to have to do something else."
24 My problem is: Why wasn't it done initially?
25 What other measures are out there that we are not aware
Page 96 1 of, okay, as time goes on?
2 Will those standards of today be the same
3 standards of 10 years from now, 15 years from now when
4 we're still figuring things out? Why change it? Why
5 risk it? The money is definitely not worth it if we end
6 up having the problem if we look out in a potential
7 spill. So that's one point.
8 The other things is that when a spill
9 happens -- you see the evidence in Santa Barbara and
10 other places where you still feel the tar on the ground.
11 You still walk and your feet are still going to be
12 black. It doesn't go away.
13 They can do the same -- everything they did
14 with Valdez they can do. All the things they want to
15 try to do. But it doesn't go away. It's there and it's
16 going to be permanent. So we're going to have to get
17 used the fact.
18 We even hear about these other cities where
19 they have spills and they have issues and then they're
20 trying to sell 25,000 gallons, whatever it is. Okay?
21 Where does that go and what happens? What happens to
22 this pristine site?
23 And the last issue is I think really -- well,
24 two issues. The first one is perception. It doesn't
25 talk about real estate values and properties. Okay?
Page 97 1 But I will tell you when we were canvassing
2 around as part of the South Hermosa, stop oil initiative
3 I went to homes. And one of the interesting comments
4 that back from one of the people that was renting it
5 was, "You know what? I am really for this issue. This
6 initiative."
7 I said, "Why is that?"
8 "Because we really would like to buy a home.
9 And when you know what's happened, the prices will go
10 down." And I thought, that's really tight.
11 The whole point is the perception. It doesn't
12 matter. The fact that you can't quantitate what the
13 home prices are going to do or not do, it doesn't
14 matter. It's perception.
15 Every time there's a spill in some neighboring
16 area around here, that will affect us. Because people
17 will look and say, "Aren't they doing drilling there?
18 What's going on there? Maybe we should consider a
19 different place."
20 How are we going to mitigate that? That's what
21 I like to understand. And how is it going to affect the
22 prices and the place that I brought 23 years ago that's
23 now almost paid for. Now what will I do?
24 And then the last thing is transportation. I
25 have a real issue with that because I know when there's
Page 98 1 an accident on PCH, or there's some problem over on
2 Valley. Valley and Ardmore will back up. Any you will
3 literally be there are for an hour trying to move a
4 quarter of a mile.
5 So you can't tell me 16, 20 trucks when the
6 first time there's a spill or there's an earthquake
7 while transportation is moving, for instance, what
8 happens when that truck may potentially have a failure
9 or fall off the road or something like that. We can't
10 predict. What's that going to do to this environment?
11 What's that going to do to our city? What's that going
12 to do the traffic? Thank you very much.
13 AL SATTLER: Good evening. My name is Al
14 Sattler. I'm chair of the Palos Verdes South Bay
15 Regional and Sierra Club which reaches from Manhattan
16 Beach down to San Pedro. Everything in between.
17 Members of our conservation committee have been
18 reviewing the draft EIR and will submit a few pages of
19 comments on it. It's not completely prepared yet. So I
20 will be brief.
21 The draft EIR does need to be as accurate as
22 possible so the voters can evaluate the project for
23 themselves going into the election.
24 The draft EIR as it is, is not as good as it
25 should be. Especially because this project will impact
Page 99 1 so much in such a small area in close proximity to
2 residents impact from this project are unavoidable. And
3 the draft EIR admits as such.
4 Odor impacts in particular are going to happen.
5 And the draft EIR admits it. I suspect they are
6 under-estimating it.
7 Another comment is that we did submit comments
8 for the notice of preparation. The asking questions
9 that were supposed to be raised and addressed in the
10 draft EIR and bound the draft EIR are rather lacking in
11 that unfortunately.
12 If you don't have the first draft of the
13 comments -- of the statements out there in the draft
14 EIR, then you can't very well comment on them for the
15 final EIR, not following the draft EIR process.
16 I will leave it at that for now. Thank you.
17 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
18 JOHN FLEMMING: Hi. I'm John Flemming. I live
19 on Springfield Avenue in Hermosa Beach.
20 What I would like to talk about is just two
21 things of clarification in the EIR. I'll call it the
22 document because I keep stumbling over the EIR and other
23 things and stuff like that.
24 But before that I would like to say I agree
25 with a number of other people who made the point that
Page 100 1 there needs to be more clarity and more human-speaking
2 in the thing.
3 If we're still debating on fundamental issues
4 that are this wide just before the election, then this
5 process will fail. Shame on us. Shame on the voters.
6 Shame you. Shame on the City Council. Shame on the
7 people who prepared the document, et cetera, et cetera.
8 The two things that I would like to address, a
9 lot of other things that other people addressed. But
10 the two things -- well, first is aroma, odor, whatever
11 it is. The city will either smell like rotten eggs or
12 it won't smell like rotten eggs. It will stink in a
13 small area, a huge area, or it won't sting at all. I
14 don't know the answer to that because I'm not an
15 engineer.
16 But I think the current document, the current
17 document I think is before the closed room system, the
18 gentlemen referred to it before. The smell just doesn't
19 seem all that bad. This is a layman reading it. In
20 fact, they can't be nearly as bad as the stench on our
21 streets resulting two, three times a year.
22 But it seems to me that's something that should
23 be tied down in the document. If the people that are
24 doing this, to see it tied down, whether this is going
25 to smell or not going to smell, and how broad it is,
Page 101 1 then we have the wrong guys, frankly. We have to get
2 somebody else out there.
3 The second part of this is about the noise. As
4 I understand the document, the baseline is something
5 like 30 decibels. The document uses language called
6 decibels state. I think I'm speaking at 65 decibels.
7 But if somebody actually knows that, I'm willing to
8 stand corrected. So 30 decibels doesn't sound like very
9 much to me, as if it would be a nuisance to the area.
10 If that's indeed what it means.
11 So I think putting more context around what 30
12 decibel means or 40 or whatever it is, whatever the
13 baseline is, and whatever that project is judged to be,
14 I think that would be very helpful. And, again, I'm
15 talking about outside the construction area. Because
16 I'm assuming the construction area will be noisy.
17 We have had in our area three new homes and 14
18 townhouses probably built over the last maybe two, two
19 and a half years.
20 In any event, we ought to be able to sort that,
21 it's either noisy or not noisy. Those are two issues we
22 shouldn't be debating one week before the election.
23 Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
24 JOE GALLIANI: Good evening, gentlemen. My
25 name is Joe Galliani. I am the organizer of the South
Page 102 1 Bay 350 Climate Action Group. I'm a resident of the
2 City of Torrance. But I am a long-term volunteer here
3 in Hermosa Beach.
4 The EIR has eight significant and unavoidable
5 impacts that we have heard mentioned here earlier
6 tonight. And I would like to add a ninth unavoidable
7 impact and significant, most significant impact of all
8 of this project.
9 It hasn't been mentioned. And it will never be
10 mentioned by our friends at the A and B. But it's
11 mentioned every day in the news. And it's mentioned
12 every day by the world's finest scientists. And that is
13 the state of our climate right now.
14 And that is the fact that our parts with C02
15 right now were 360 part tank level. We're at 400 parts
16 and we're declining right now.
17 We have a carbon budget. That is the amount of
18 carbon that we can safely burn before we hit two degrees
19 celsius global warming with all the finest scientists
20 the world over says the danger zone that we should not
21 pass because unavoidable climate has to be weighed on
22 the other side of two degrees.
23 Now, perhaps there's a planet where the ice
24 caps are not melting, where is seas are not rising,
25 where the temperatures of the land and the air and the
Page 103 1 water are not going up. But that's not the planet Earth
2 that we live on.
3 So if folks would like to base this
4 environmental impact report on the true environmental
5 impact of adding to our carbon budget with unnecessary
6 oil that is right now safely sequestered under the
7 ground and cannot do any harm to our climate, if you
8 like to know what the most significant impact is, it's
9 adding this unnecessary oil to our carbon budget.
10 I would like to know how this city and how this
11 Planning Commission is going to take responsibility for
12 that oil. Because right now we have that oil safely in
13 stock.
14 But if you allow this company to come in for
15 one reason, for profit, to wreck our climate and add to
16 our carbon budget then I dare say that this body and
17 your City Council and residents of this town own that
18 carbon, and it's your responsibility.
19 So I lope you treat that responsibility very,
20 very seriously. And I hope that you add this very
21 significant and unavoidable impact to your environmental
22 responsibility. Thank you for listening.
23 DAVE ANDREY: Dave Andrey. 11th Street.
24 An average business partnership is about five
25 years. An average marriage is about eight years in the
Page 104 1 U.S. 35 plus years. We just have to look at it.
2 That's the fact. You can look it up. Google it,
3 et cetera.
4 There's a saying by Bob Cohan, that I have been
5 told; that all facts die. Which that sounds great. You
6 won't have a lot lawsuits anymore.
7 But what was done to find out about A and B?
8 You guys look at RFP. You guys look at the contracts.
9 You guys look at the people coming in. This is a
10 potential billion dollar deal with this company. We're
11 going to be in a relationship with four times longer
12 than a typical marriage.
13 Has anybody, anyone at all in the City of
14 Hermosa done any background check on A and B? Its
15 executives? Any kind of information that's been
16 disseminated to the public that knows what kind of
17 company that it's going to be in a relationship with.
18 I know there's a garbage company coming in.
19 We've learned plenty about the garbage company. We're
20 paying for the service.
21 But what are we learning about the oil company?
22 I can tell you right now I know that Steve Laton,
23 present CEO, has at least 10 companies. I know that.
24 You can look it up. He's the present CEO.
25 I know that looking up in the City Council
Page 105 1 website A and B over a six-year period has spilled 16
2 times of at least thousand gallons or more of oil,
3 without protected, for lack of its context everybody but
4 the gas has spoiled the ground friend. That is a fact.
5 That is the average amount of gas that's put in their
6 tank every year. Kind of think about that.
7 Did you know that also they even drill the
8 surface for oil samples. They didn't even get a permit.
9 So is this a quality company or what? I know we're
10 stuck with them. But is this a quality company? That's
11 what we have to look at.
12 Also I don't know if your guys are aware.
13 Hermosa is the most 52nd most densely populated city in
14 the United States. That puts us in the 99 percentile.
15 We're right there with Manhattan. We're not as densely
16 populated, but close.
17 The City of Hermosa is grandfathered into many
18 civil (phonetic) laws about drilling. Cities in
19 California right now are 1500 foot setback. You heard
20 earlier the gentleman saying 98 steps from his house.
21 So when you start seeing all these different
22 reports about drilling and comparing us to cities such
23 as Wilmington or wherever else it may be, think about
24 them drilling in Manhattan with the people living right
25 there. It wouldn't happen. It's just not logical.
Page 106 1 That's not what City of Hermosa is.
2 The only thing to look at is the City of
3 Hermosa is very different. How many of you have AC at
4 your house? You don't. You live with the windows open.
5 We don't need AC. Those chemicals will be going through
6 the air.
7 As I look at the EIR, I would like to know more
8 about how we are a different city, we live with our
9 windows open, we don't have air conditioners in our
10 homes. How does that impact the smell? Because we
11 won't close our windows. That is very important to us
12 overall.
13 The other thing that I would like to know is
14 that on the hill where the drilling is going to happen.
15 It's a hill. What I've seen has not been affected.
16 It's mostly about 50, 55 feet above sea level according
17 to Google using the maps. I'm not saying it's accurate.
18 But I would like to know the height of the hill and
19 where the drilling is going to be put.
20 Right now they'll out the workover rig 165
21 feet, about 16 and a half stories tall. So that puts it
22 at 18 and a half stories tall. I would like to know
23 more about the impact of the height. This is going on a
24 hill. It's not at sea level.
25 Where can this thing be seen visually? Where
Page 107 1 will it be seen? There's one -- there's three feet deep
2 trying to find smallest on the entire west side. The
3 only place I can find it is in some of the report.
4 If you put a lifeguard out in a house, a
5 lifeguard's house is, what, 10 feet? 10 or 12 feet, 15
6 feet, 20 feet? Something around there. Put that in
7 perspective. That's something that we all need to look
8 at.
9 Have a gem. We have a beautiful city here.
10 We've gone a hundred years without it. I moved here 10
11 years ago. I haven't left. I now have a family here.
12 I bought my home here. I'm raising my daughter here.
13 She's planing to go to school here. I'm paying money
14 for schools. The schools are like 10 out of 10. 10 out
15 of 10. You can't go any higher. There's no 11 like
16 spinal tap. How are we supposed to get any better?
17 I understand that you're worried about money.
18 You know what? We're a community that comes together to
19 raise our money. You see everybody that comes here. We
20 come together as a community to solve the problem and
21 issue. We've been doing it over a hundred years. We'll
22 continue doing it for the next hundred years. Thank
23 you.
24 JIM ROSENBERGER: I won't take much of your
25 time.
Page 108 1 Ironically today as I was driving home National
2 Publish Radio was doing a story on a small Texas town
3 that found oil just in 2006. Since 2006 5,000 permits
4 have been pulled to pull oil out of that town. I guess
5 they are pulling a lot of oil out.
6 They talked about that aspect today. But I'm
7 only putting you on notice that tomorrow they're doing
8 the second half of the story. And the second half is on
9 the human impacts on that town of the drilling that has
10 been going on there.
11 So for the benefit of all of us to get an
12 outside third-party picture of the impact of the
13 drilling on the community, I recommend that you tune in
14 on the National Publish Radio tomorrow afternoon. Thank
15 you.
16 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
17 STACEY ARMATO: (Very difficult to hear) My
18 name is Stacey Armato. I live at 208 29th Street. I am
19 a mom of a three and four-year-old. I work full-time in
20 South Hermosa Beach.
21 We will submit our comments to the city. We
22 will also post it on our website HermosaBeachoil.com.
23 Right now I'm just going to speak on one point
24 that I found particularly interesting about the CUP.
25 The inconsistencies are between the project application
Page 109 1 and the draft EIR.
2 Draft EIR states that during Phase II, the
3 drilling rig would operate continuously for 24 hours a
4 day, seven a weeks, until the appropriate gas combined
5 with the location for each well has been reached.
6 The DEIR estimates that the drilling test well
7 will take 120 days after which the drilling rig will be
8 removed from the project site. However, the CET states,
9 "The maximum number of days the workover rigs or any
10 other rig that is to be used on the site shall be 90
11 days a year and shall be operated weekdays from 8:00
12 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., excluding holidays."
13 The proposed 24-hour operation of a drill rig
14 is inconsistent with the CUP. The CUP also provides for
15 a 90-day maximum notice for any rig on the site.
16 Expected schedule of 100 and some days during Phase II
17 is also inconsistent with the CUP.
18 Additionally, the CUP requires the testing
19 phase for oil production shall be a maximum of one year
20 from the date of drilling is initiated. The DEIR
21 estimates that during Phase II drilling will occur for
22 three to four months, and testing for seven to nine
23 months more. That's the expected duration of Phase II
24 as described in the DEIR may not be formed again with
25 the CUP.
Page 110 1 Moreover that relies upon a schedule that runs
2 24 hours a day, seven days week, drilling over 120 days
3 which also again will not conform with the CUP.
4 The DEIR states that during the drilling
5 portion of Phase IV "The drilling rig will operate
6 continuously for 24 hours a day, seven days a week until
7 the appropriate depth and amount of oil at the location
8 have been reached.
9 The DEIR estimates that drilling of the
10 remaining 27 oil wells and three water reinjection wells
11 will take approximately 30 months. Again, the CUP
12 states explicitly that the maximum number of days the
13 workover rigs or any other rig shall be 90 days a year
14 and shall operate from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on
15 weekdays, excluding holidays.
16 Project relationship conceived should be better
17 explained. The relationship between the project and the
18 CUP may require a revision of the drilling portion of
19 Phase IV and Phase II in the final EIR. Thank you.
20 JOEL SHAPIRO: I didn't know I was going to
21 speak. I'm Joel Shapiro. I came to Hermosa Beach in
22 1976 from Manhattan Beach.
23 I didn't get involved with anything. I didn't
24 even know where city hall was until Proposition 13. And
25 now I came here for a different reason. But I feel like
Page 111 1 I've got to speak.
2 First of all, there is always something to fix.
3 Always. Whether you have money or not. Whether you're
4 in Beverly Hills. So the fact the sewage system,
5 et cetera, the police.
6 I was getting child support. I won sold
7 custody of my kids. They have a formula for that. They
8 don't give the complete paycheck from the spouse -- in
9 this case from the mother to the father. There's a
10 formula.
11 The scare tactic that we're not going to have
12 anything is ridiculous. I'm sure if it goes to court
13 and they win, there will be a percentage of our income
14 we will have to give them. Not the whole thing.
15 So looking at it from a grass roots perspective
16 I would like to remind everybody of that. It's not all
17 or nothing. It's not no sewage system, no lights, no
18 police. They'll figure it out. And there will be a
19 percentage and a formula. Thank you.
20 DAVID MACHAMRIZ: My name is David Machamriz.
21 I'm 2nd Street in Hermosa Beach. I've been a resident
22 for about 16 years. I moved here from New York because
23 I love the city. I came here to visit. Very quickly
24 just fell in love with it. Walked around the streets
25 and the town. I'm pretty sure if I had seen what would
Page 112 1 be potentially happening here, my desire to come here
2 would have just been minimized greatly.
3 I asked for this before. I want to ask for it
4 one more time. I hear in the EIR report we can have a
5 picture for the various phases of this project. Every
6 single -- whatever the period is of change. It's two
7 months, three months, whatever it is. Where there's
8 just an imagine that says this is what it will look like
9 in month one, month five, month 12. Whatever it is.
10 So people understand exactly what it will look
11 like; the number of rigs, how tall they are, petroleum
12 description 125 feet, 80 feet. Whatever it is. And
13 also where it can be seen from.
14 The gentleman in support of oil drilling a
15 little bit earlier said that because of this situation
16 he took a stroll over to the city yard to see that it
17 was unattractive. With what's happening is, you won't
18 have to take a stroll. The guy's been living here for a
19 long time. He's never been bothered by it. This will
20 bother everyone in the entire city.
21 Finally as a businessman, I make hard decisions
22 all the time. I look at different scenarios,
23 opportunity scenarios. This here doesn't seem like a
24 very hard decision. I'm not really sure why there's
25 people who question it at this point. So what I -- I'm
Page 113 1 not in the oil business. But I did speak with a number
2 of people.
3 It seems as though if we don't go this route we
4 vote against it. Chances are that if we had to go this
5 route, we would be drilling one day we would get a much
6 better deal.
7 So the point is it's an asset if it goes all
8 the way. What we are paying to get out of this deal is
9 very minimal compared to the upside if we one day we
10 want to use it.
11 So I'm not 100 percent against anything. But
12 there's a need for a decision. I already put an
13 overhead in my kitchen to take care of the heat bills.
14 This is my home. That's how I feel. That's how a lot
15 of people feel.
16 So I encourage everybody to think about that.
17 Look at it as an asset. We can use it at a later time
18 if we need to. Thank you.
19 NANETTE BARRAGAN: Hello everyone. I'm an
20 attorney. I can understand you'll want me to slow down.
21 I didn't real plan on speaking this evening.
22 But I did want to take an opportunity. I heard a lot of
23 misleading, bad facts. And I can't let the night go by
24 without correcting some of them.
25 So I wanted to start because I heard a few
Page 114 1 people talking about, oh, it can't be that bad of a
2 smell.
3 I actually had the opportunity to go down to
4 Huntington Beach where the company proposing to drill
5 for oil here in Hermosa has a facility.
6 Let me tell you, I went three times. Once when
7 A and B took me. It was pretty quiet. There wasn't a
8 whole lot going on.
9 I went a second time. The second time I went
10 unannounced. It was a little different. There was a
11 smell. I myself came home nauseous from the smell.
12 But then I went a third time. There were two
13 workover rigs. Not one, but two. I call them the twins
14 towers.
15 If you have been to Magic Mountain and you have
16 seen the ride Free Fall, it's similar to that. That's
17 exactly what it's like.
18 The smell? Oh, it was a lot worse. I came
19 home nauseous and was scared myself. So I tell people
20 this story because I say, look, the EIR doesn't convey
21 that. There's no smell portion. You can't scratch and
22 sniff to see what it's going to be like.
23 So I would hope and invite people to go down
24 there and smell for yourself and then ask yourself if
25 you come home to take care of someone like me, or you
Page 115 1 can live with that for 35 years.
2 And this is not construction. This is
3 operational with the workover rig workup. That's the
4 first thing I wanted to talk about.
5 Second, we keep hearing about, oh, this great
6 record. Oh, we never had a spill. When I went on my
7 tour their plan manager confirmed with me that there had
8 been a spill there. Oh, it was small, though. Only
9 eight barrels. But, boy, did it make a mess. That was
10 a quote.
11 So I'm not -- I'm not sure that these are facts
12 people know. I say them because I want to make sure
13 they know the facts.
14 Tonight we heard yet again, oh, we might go
15 bankrupt. Apparently the person has not read the CBA.
16 The Cost Benefit Analysis makes very clear that we will
17 not go bankrupt. The new talking point? Oh, we're
18 going to have $40 million a year.
19 How will we spend it? Okay. Let me clarify
20 here. I know a little bit about the budget. The City
21 Council has about $40 million in their budget a year.
22 There is no way we're going to have 40 more million
23 dollars a year. Zero. It's nowhere in the Cost Benefit
24 Analysis.
25 The Cost Benefit Analysis makes clear the
Page 116 1 amount of money we can get is something like 182 to like
2 270. It doesn't amount to $40 million a year for four
3 years.
4 But that's not all, though. I wanted to go
5 through what the cost really is going to be. Because
6 that seems to be the new misleading fact. It's been
7 gone over and over again tonight.
8 The cost if we say no is $17.5 million. Okay.
9 Now, think about it. The cost if we say yes -- all of
10 these are in the Cost Benefit Analysis. $3.05 million
11 is going to cost the city for the temporary relocation
12 of the city yard. Add another $10 million.
13 The permit relocates the city yard. Then the
14 environmental clean up cost of the city yard. There is
15 another 3.7. And that's the conservative number to
16 clean that up.
17 Now, the lost the revenue includes the storage
18 facility, there's another $6.4 million. What does that
19 add up to? $23.15 million.
20 We say, yes; 17 and a half million. We say
21 no -- I mean, rather we say no; 17 and a half million.
22 We say yes; 23.15 million.
23 But wait, folks. That's not all. There's more
24 cost coming if we say yes. Okay. Let's see. We have
25 to pay A and B oil three and half million dollars.
Page 117 1 Let's add that on now.
2 Oh, wait a second. The CBA, page 59, section
3 9.6 says there's a required emergency fund the city is
4 going to have the have. There's another at least half a
5 million dollars. These are all from the Cost Benefit
6 Analysis.
7 Oh, we need to add additional staff to monitor
8 the project. How much is that going to cost us?
9 According to the CBA, $11.9 million. Page 60 of the
10 Cost Benefit Analysis. Now, how much is that? That's
11 another 16 million dollars. Let's add to 23, plus the
12 16, we're up to $39 million. And that's if we say yes.
13 That's not all, folks. Cost Benefit Analysis,
14 we are going to have to up the fire department. We're
15 going to have to make upgrades. There's another $15.5
16 million.
17 Page 59, section 9.7. Lost property taxes. It
18 ranges from, I don't know, a million to 10. Even if we
19 use 5 million, add that on.
20 My point, we get close to $50 million. And
21 then what? That's not even the cost to finance this.
22 People worry about the cost of financing 17 and a half
23 million? What about the cost to finance 50 million?
24 These are the facts, folks. Right out of the
25 Cost Benefit Analysis. I have to talk about this
Page 118 1 because I keep hearing this as the talking point.
2 So I really encourage people to read the Cost
3 Benefit Analysis. I hope that the Cost Benefit Analysis
4 will put this into a spreadsheet so they can see for
5 themselves there's a lot more cost.
6 This doesn't take into consideration what the
7 impact will be on paving the roads. We had a meeting
8 the other day with Sanitation about repaving the roads.
9 The gentleman said, "Oh, we'll get the city costs." We
10 have new trucks coming down here. Sure, nowhere in
11 that. We need to add that stuff in.
12 I only bring this up again because people keep
13 talking about cost. Some people will only look at cost.
14 That's fine. But take a look at all the real costs.
15 So I urge everybody to do that. I will be as
16 well making comments about the EIR. I am greatly
17 concerned about the fact that we need to read 20 pages
18 to get to the big sentence. We'll read 20 pages about
19 the color of the trees, and what kind of birds are in
20 the trees. But then we've got to look at page 21 and
21 see a sentence that says inhaling a hundred pm's of
22 hydrogen sulfate can be lethal. And the project has a
23 potential to reach up to 100 pm's.
24 Oh, and then it changes the topic. Now, hold a
25 second. Shouldn't that be somewhat closer to the front?
Page 119 1 How about if we stick that in the executive summary?
2 These are the facts that people cannot find
3 because it's stuck in between all the scientific and
4 technical language.
5 So I hope to see in the revision, and these
6 will be part of my comments, a more easy to read, easy
7 to find of the really big impact. Thank you.
8 MR. HOFFMAN: Anyone else? All right. In that
9 case, I'm going to close the public hearing.
10 I'm going to remind everyone again, those
11 listening as well as those that are actually here
12 tonight, the deadline to submit your written comment is
13 the 14th. And we obviously are encouraging and are
14 hopeful that everyone will submit them. Again, thank
15 you very much.
16 Now, gentlemen --
17 The meeting is not over. The meeting not over.
18 Obviously you are free go go if you like.
19 Is there anyone here on the panel that would
20 like to add their comment to our discussion tonight?
21 MR. PERROTTI: I would like to say one thing
22 real briefly. There were a lot of comments about the
23 size of the EIR.
24 Here it is. It's about four inches. It is
25 tough reading. But I encourage everyone to at least
Page 120 1 read the executive summary. It's only 16 pages.
2 When you read the summary if there's something
3 that you're looking for with more detail, there's a
4 table of contents, chapters. Then you can go to those
5 specific areas.
6 Also the Cost Benefit Analysis, that summary is
7 only three pages. I mean, we all can read three pages.
8 So I encourages everyone, not necessarily the
9 people who are here tonight, but the people that are at
10 home. Obviously the people that came tonight are really
11 involved in this project. I encourage the people that I
12 have spoken to, a lot of them have not even read the
13 executive summary. That's all I have.
14 One last thing. I met the chairman in the last
15 couple of meetings. You did a really good job.
16 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.
17 MR. PIZER: You did an excellent job. And I
18 agree with Sam in what he's saying. I think if you guys
19 can get more people to participate in this operation and
20 actually start reading something about what's going on,
21 educate the people, it would be a big help. I don't
22 care what side you are on. I think the community has to
23 know about it.
24 I know when I was younger person like most of
25 you guys are, the family was more important. I never
Page 121 1 went to any meetings. I didn't know who the major was
2 of the city where we lived. I know it's hard for people
3 to do this.
4 This is a very important issue. The most
5 important issue I have seen since I have been here. So
6 we have to really get more community people involved so
7 they can understand what they really want.
8 And I think what Nanette said about the clarity
9 of the EIR is extremely important. If we had it printed
10 a little bit better, then the people could read it. We
11 can take a few pages, maybe 10 pages or something so you
12 can really get a feel for what's going on in our city.
13 So I just want to encourage all of you guys here that
14 spent all this time waiting and talking and everything,
15 we appreciate it.
16 Just try to spread the word to the other people
17 in this community so they can at least get a little
18 education themselves so they can make their own
19 determination of they want. To me it's obvious. Thank
20 you.
21 MR. ALLEN: That was a good point you made
22 there. I was having a discussion with one of my
23 neighbors last week without saying what side they were
24 on or not. We got into a little bit kind of a
25 disagreement.
Page 122 1 I looked at her and said, "Have you read any of
2 the information?"
3 She said, "What are you talking about? It's
4 all there on the website, on the city website."
5 I said, "I suggest that maybe we curtail our
6 conversation until you went over there and read it a
7 little bit."
8 I think that's a good point.
9 The other point I wanted to make is that
10 between these two meetings, it's my feeling that anybody
11 who wanted to have a chance to speak spoke. There was
12 time yielded to both sides. Many people yielded more
13 than once. Well, you can keep track of it. And then
14 also many people spoke more than once.
15 So I think to conclude this meeting, I think
16 everybody really got their chance to speak. Tonight I
17 just kind of kept a little tally. There were 47
18 speakers. 21 of them addressed -- well, I could be off
19 by one or two. But a little less than half actually
20 addressed what we came here to talk about. I thought
21 that was kind of interesting.
22 You know, personally I submitted my own
23 comments to the EIR. It just kind of happens that it
24 was funny that last Friday I took a little online class
25 in the American Petroleum Institute's most basic course.
Page 123 1 As a result of that, my comments centered around
2 spacing; the distance between tanks and people and walls
3 and human activity. If you're interested, you can look
4 at the API and see what those dimensions are.
5 My last sort of little sarcastic comment is
6 that I used to work in a solar plant for Mobil Oil. The
7 first day they indoctrinated us, when you go in the
8 plant you get to wear a little patch. I said, "Boy,
9 this smells."
10 They said, "Yeah. It's C2SS. It stinks. That
11 the good news. If you can smell it, you're safe. If
12 you can't smell it, you're dead." I just thought that
13 was a little sarcastic. High concentration you can't
14 actually smell it. You just simply die.
15 (Court Reporter was having difficulty with her machine)
16 MR. FLAHERTY: ... know what the retention
17 basin would be even Phase I if you view the yard. I
18 guarantee you, the fire department would have a
19 difficult time in knowing all the issues that need to be
20 addressed as they hit the site.
21 So I would think that we need a strong safety
22 response program prior to voting for this program. Like
23 I said, I have at least three or four dozen questions
24 and comments. Some of them are very particular to my
25 basic knowledge of that yard or traffic pattern.
Page 124 1 We generate at least 100 vehicle trips per day
2 to an existing yard. When you transfer that yard to
3 another location, you're adding to a traffic pattern
4 that is not addressed in the traffic study.
5 So I strongly think that they relook at doing
6 another traffic study, adding the existing traffic
7 pattern. Because if it transfers to this area you need
8 to take that into account. Not just the 14 trucks that
9 will come in and out of that yard with the new project.
10 There's 100 vehicle trips generated today by existing
11 personnel.
12 That being said, like I said, I submitted all
13 these questions to the director and the experts. Thank
14 you. Again, I thank you for managing this meeting. I
15 think went well.
16 MR. HOFFMAN: Couple of comments.
17 Some of you know that I'm a college professor.
18 Unlike my students, I put off until the first last
19 moment completing my comments.
20 Real quickly, couple of things that stand out
21 to me in speaking of the EIR and the proposal that we're
22 looking at.
23 One of them is the site description. My
24 problem that I'm having -- if someone suggested this
25 should be an analogy I would make as though we were
Page 125 1 evaluating a helicopter port and we're looking at the
2 site where the helicopters are going to land, later
3 knowing that they have to have a site. We're looking at
4 the truck traffic that's creating fuel for the site, so
5 on and so forth.
6 Somehow what strikes me as missing -- oh, yeah.
7 By the way they're going to take off by the city. In
8 this case they are going to take off and go under the
9 city. While we have very precise site diagrams, which I
10 will bring up in a second, about what that very
11 compacted site is going to look like, the proximity of
12 the ground flares to the tanks, all of those kind of
13 issues. What we get for the pipes themselves is they
14 kind of go off into a very kind of crude -- it's not a
15 mass. It's kind of, I assume, kind of a crude --
16 there's some yellow lines that go off. And then we got
17 some relief that shows they are down 1,000 feet.
18 My understanding is that you drill them and
19 then the others are redrilling. And then there's some
20 mutation that occurs. But my understanding as I read
21 this is that at some point there are electric pumps that
22 went down into the system. Why didn't we see the old
23 pump on the ground?
24 Here's what I don't know. And one of the other
25 things was the term liquefaction came up tonight. There
Page 126 1 was some discussion that liquefaction only occurs in the
2 soil that's saturated. That's one definition of
3 liquefaction.
4 Another definition of liquefaction is when any
5 solid behavior of liquid, when energy is supplied to it.
6 While one of the speakers tonight commented that sand
7 doesn't respond, I happen to live in one of those
8 hundred year old houses that he was talking about.
9 Again, all I can do is respond to my own
10 experience. When someone vibrates through the pile on
11 the strand, I feel it in my home. My question, of
12 course, then is: What am I going to feel both of that
13 drilling underneath my home? And then am I going to
14 have 35 -- if I live 35 years. My kids or the people
15 that will live in the condo that then replaces my home.
16 They are going to be experiencing the vibration
17 that comes from that pump down there. I know that most
18 people would say well those pumps -- I'm sure they will
19 tell me don't vibrate or whatever in the same way that I
20 have been in the room where there is a fan and the air
21 conditioning duct doesn't vibrate over my head is
22 driving me nuts.
23 I've read the vibration portion of this. I
24 hope that there is some clarification. I think part of
25 the problem is the site designing as it is stipulated,
Page 127 1 we show the yard, we show the pipeline, we show the site
2 where this will be relocated. We don't really show the
3 pipelines themselves as part of the design project
4 would, in fact -- that's what this project is. It's
5 about 35 wells under our city.
6 They may be a thousand feet away. I don't live
7 that far from the site. I can't believe they are going
8 to go -- I don't know that -- there needs to be some
9 type of clarification for me.
10 I do believe in fact that we literally need to
11 feel safe with 3,000 feet away. I don't know. I hope
12 there will be some clarification of that.
13 The second thing that I have some problem with
14 is it's been brought up by several people tonight,
15 including up here.
16 The site is so small that, while the odds as I
17 understand it, any one of these events occurring are
18 quite remote. Independently the fact is energetically
19 if there is an accident on the site because of the site,
20 it's inevitable that all of those things would happen.
21 In other words, you can't have a spill without
22 a fire. I'm being hyperbole now. That seems to be the
23 very nature of the project as it's designed because of
24 the constraints in the site, the site as opposed to this
25 an oil field in Texas. If it was 1500 feet from every
Page 128 1 other well it would be a different kind of risk factor.
2 So I hope there's a little bit more
3 clarification in terms of the actual risk that's
4 associated with attempting this project not only -- it's
5 one thing -- I don't mean to minimize that at all.
6 It's one thing to tell you this is going to
7 happen a hundred feet from somebody's bedroom. But it's
8 also the fact that it's not just the city compacted.
9 The site itself is so compacted. It just seems very
10 difficult for me -- I'm trying to sort two cars in the
11 garage. I don't have space to work. I don't know how
12 you drill these wells. And I'm sure the folks here can
13 answer these questions for you.
14 But I'm hoping there will be a little bit more
15 explanation in the analysis of that. Particularly I
16 think someone else mentioned it or a couple of people
17 tonight. I used to live in the north end of Manhattan
18 and got the smell of the refinery there. But I also got
19 to witness when there was a flare off.
20 I'm not sure what a ground flare looks like
21 versus what most of us are familiar of seeing how it
22 occurs. Not here. But we've seen them at Mobil. We've
23 seen them in El Segundo.
24 I understand if you -- the dimensions were
25 mentioned in El Segundo versus the dimensions of this
Page 129 1 yard. I don't know how big a flare off we can have
2 100 feet from those kids' bedrooms. I hope there's some
3 discussion of that.
4 And then, again, I can see everyone has had
5 more than enough of me tonight. It seems to stand out
6 to me this is something a little difficult to make an
7 intelligent decision about something that I only have a
8 vague sense of a pipeline running off somewhere.
9 Where is that site going to occur has been
10 mentioned. Where is the pipe breaking going to occur?
11 What depth is it going to be?
12 Frankly some people I know may be listening.
13 Lot of folks here tonight.
14 One of those pipelines that is shown on that
15 diagram goes up through literally the city's boundary.
16 So the citizens of Manhattan Beach are going to be a
17 part of this project as well. So somehow the city
18 light, the street light out here and the storage unit
19 and the pipeline, to me that's not an accurate
20 description of the project. Those are part of what I
21 want clarified.
22 Again, I thank everyone for coming. I share
23 with all of my fellow commissioners, and my appreciation
24 for everyone's stability tonight. I hope this is the
25 beginning, not the end obviously of the discussion about
Page 130 1 this project.
2 MR. PIZER: Just for clarification, there are
3 going to be other meetings. We have to give the people
4 that are working on it the opportunity to review
5 everything and come back with something. Hopefully that
6 will fix a lot of these problems and address them. So
7 that's the next step.
8 Are they going to get the report? Is there
9 anything in here -- unless they really do something. So
10 far they haven't. As far as I have seen, they have not
11 responded properly. So let's give them a chance. There
12 will be another meeting and we'll see where we are.
13 MR. HOFFMAN: Just to clarify, the process part
14 of this, so everyone is aware, the next phase of this is
15 the draft Environmental Impact Report that we're
16 counting on will be back to our consultant. They will
17 complete that.
18 The final EIR will come back to the city. The
19 next step will be for the city to certify that we have
20 met the requirements of CEQA. Not approve of the
21 project. It's not on the merits of the project. None
22 of those are the issue of the next step.
23 The next step of this, again, is simply for us
24 to make -- or the Planning Commission to make a
25 recommendation to the City Council to certify that EIR
Page 131 1 indicates that it has been prepared and consistent with
2 the requirements of CEQA.
3 At that point the EIR becomes final. That's
4 when you, the decision makers, which, of course,
5 includes us as voters not as the Commission. That's
6 when the City of Hermosa Beach will have the ultimate
7 documents along with the ultimate impact that was
8 mentioned forthcoming in May and the Economic Impact
9 Assessment that is currently available for you to
10 address some of these issues.
11 The process goes on. Again, the vote is
12 tentatively scheduled for our November election. Again,
13 thank you everyone. And with that we will stand
14 adjourned.
15 (The EIR meeting was concluded at 10:00 p.m.)
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Page 132 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) ) SS 3 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
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6 I, CYNTHIA L. VARELA, a Certified Shorthand
7 Reporter No. 5917 do hereby certify:
8 That the foregoing proceedings were taken
9 before me at the time and place therein set forth;
10 That the testimony of the individuals made at the
11 time of the proceeding were recorded stenographically by
12 me and were thereafter transcribed;
13 I further certify that I am neither counsel
14 for nor related to any party to said action.
15 Dated this 16th day of April 2014.
16
17 ______18 Cynthia L. Varela, CSR No. 5917 19
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