Pablo (2s): Welcome to Beautiful Ghosts. We are a community of people that have honest conversations, open up to others and are willing to be vulnerable to grow and discover what is Beautiful within us. Here is a new conversation with Mariana, Nico, Pablo and you are searching for Beautiful Ghosts.

Mariana (20s): Good morning, good afternoon, good everything today with David. David hello, hello, hello.

David (32s): Hi Mariana. Thanks for having me here.

Mariana (36s): All good.

Pablo (36s): Welcome. Welcome. Hi Mariana.

Nico (41s): Hi Mariana. Hi Pablo. Hi David, thanks for coming.

Mariana (44s): Okay. Today the topic is trauma and it's a huge one. We won't to be able to cover everything because we need like hundreds, 50 years have all the topics, but it will be good to know if you think you have a lot of drama or many traumas, and it will be nice if you can share if you want this story, but also how you cope with it. Or if you have a spiff, a specific tools that you know, could help a lot of people.

Mariana (1m 23s): So Pablo, because you always like pass the, the flux to someone else. I think To, they could be your day that you want to start.

Pablo (1m 36s): So it's a traumatic experience. And, and so when we talk about trauma, we talk about one specific event or, or can it be like, ah, something that happens over time?

David (1m 54s): I can I answer that? So, yeah, it's good to define trauma. And I think that we could define it here is like any overwhelming experience. No, that's nice. So, and where we couldn't find out, or we couldn't negotiate our way out by ourselves, so it could be one, it could be a car accident, one Oh one event, or it could be something like chronic pain. Mariana (2m 25s): Yes. For example, with chronic pain, it also is, there is a traumatic response to something or happens, and then you become traumatized because of the pain over time,

David (2m 38s): Yeah. It could be either or, and absolutely it can be a response to, to, to something that's been happening, whether it's one event or a period of, or a low level over a long period of time, for example, had a, like a, I don't know, a big brother that just kept on whacking you on the back of the head, you know? And, and, and you, you start to create a kind of a strategy around it by, by, by doing something, you know, it's kind of, and you can't get away.

David (3m 17s): Right? So...

Nico (3m 19s): That torture that is like dropping drops of water,

David (3m 26s): Or it could be, or, or it, it could be pain from, I dunno, something like scoliosis that's just developed or, or an injury where it's just, again, it's not like really acute, but it could just be chronic in there, but it just doesn't go away. You feel like you could,

Mariana (3m 44s): But what can I say? Because like, this is good to hear you say that because I thought, no, but I thought trauma was always something emotional. Like you just, what do you trust this set in the beginning? Like write something that was overwhelming, overwhelming experience. So the injury, doesn't, it doesn't go in the concept because the injury is like, the body is fucking up, but how are you not sure that the body is not fucking up because the emotional is fucked.

David (4m 16s): So the, the, you know, the injury, you might not, you might have an injury and not be traumatized by it. You might hear it from it, but it's that if you don't heal from it and you feel like, look, I can, I'm never going to get out of this pain. It's an emotional thing. It was an emotional, it, it is, of course its the, it's the response to the event. It's not the event itself. Yeah. So we might all be in the same car going in the same and hit a lamppost. Right. And we all have our seatbelts on and one of us just walks away. No problem at all. Right. Nothing and Andy and the other person that has to wear a neck brace and someone broke their neck.

David (4m 59s): So, so, so we have, we have different responses to the same thing and that's w w so some, one or more of us might be traumatized and other people not. Yeah, yeah,

Nico (5m 15s): Yeah. One question. And so I, I was more sure about the, the, like the, one of them was like one off and then, you know, triggers or, you know, the second thing sort of emotional response. But I didn't realize that actually that, that, you know, periodic constant and chronic thing or a soul, so trauma. So why is that? So do you know, I mean, I need to know that w that was another way of this is because it works like constant pain without a body cam coping with, or

David (5m 51s): Yeah, because it is because it's the, it's the same. So, so yeah, generally, so now we kind of getting into the theory of it, but if that's okay, so you, you go from, you know, you are just hanging out and you're, you're, you're in your normal range of, of life act and a little bit of activation and a little bit of a calming, relaxing, and a little bit of growing up, you know, you are happy and you're or something like that is happening, but its all well, well within What you can deal with what you can cope with it. And then something happens that it's it's is pretty bad, but you can still get out of it during with your own means.

David (6m 36s): Yeah. Your own nervous system can deal with that. Hmm. And then you go to a point where you go beyond what your own nervous system can deal with and that could be in an event or it could just be like you say, Nico, with drip, the, the dripping water torture. At some point you go beyond what your nervous system can cope with it. And then you kind of go from fight flight into frees to associate flop. You go just a lot. I can't, can't get out of this with my own means. And that's, that's the realm of trauma.

Pablo (7m 17s): It's like, Oh, well I've got plenty.

David (7m 21s): Okay. That's good.

Pablo (7m 24s): The, so I mean, in terms of like physical injuries, I I've had a, quite a few of them, the one that is being, I don't know if I'd call it traumatic, but I had like a knee, knee pain on my two knees for like since March last year. And at first, you know, I thought, Oh, okay, it's just a knee pain. It will go away. And then, you know, I kept going to a gym that didn't change much except just trying to avoid, but doing things that are more causing me pain.

Pablo (8m 6s): And, but then at some point you, it got, it got a, yeah, at some point it got overwhelming. I said, no, I can cope with this on myself. I started going to a physiotherapy and so on. So I went to a physio therapy for a few months. I'm Kadima and Diane, it was tendinitis and all of my attenders and my niece, there is no. And there is no TIR. And so read about it, the fees York kind of, I stopped going to a physio with a whole lot because our own thing anyway. But I didn't feel that that physiotherapy was helping in any way.

Pablo (8m 46s): I just thought, well, he's just going to go away by itself. But well, it's been 10 months. And so it's, it's supposedly long enough to have healed. I am a especially low, the healing soft tissue. So I don't know that. I can't say that I'm completely overwhelmed to a point that I'm traumatized by him, but it it's. Is it been, it's been, it's been hard. Yeah. It's been harder because I am, I am still hoping that is kind of go away. But you know, sometimes it does gets a bit overwhelming just to say, can we leave?

Pablo (9m 27s): I still have my, you know, my knees, sore.

Mariana (9m 30s): Okay. So for example, David in that case because like you, you know, we usually don't say what the guest staff, because the idea is like everyone sees you as a person, but you are a quiet and a specialist trauma. So something like that, what Pablo is describing, which is an injury and he doesn't feel like that overwhelmed me because if not, it wouldn't have been to a specialist, please get me out of this fucking pain regardless of the price. Right. When you consider that still a traumatic like event that could escalate, if you don't do something about it or not.

David (10m 5s): Well, yeah, it sounds like Pablo is doing something about it. Which, which tends to make me think that it's, it's, he hasn't shut down light. There is still it still within his means to actually do something about it. And if there is a physiotherapist doesn't work than the, you know, if you could go to a specialist or do you do things, your kind of have you given up, are you given up and you have heard from three people, you're going to have to live with us for the rest of your life and you believe that. And then that then, and then that becomes who you are, you know,

Mariana (10m 46s): I'm fine. Yes. And that is the overwhelming or that's when you go from like jealous.

David (10m 52s): Yeah. That's when Because so, okay. I'll tell you a story. And so this is, this is a real story that happened and it's kind of a bit hideous. So just as a warning. Yeah. It was a, a, a man in the seventies, I think in the late seventies, in, in, in the States kidnapped a school bus full of children. And he took them to a quarry and buried the bus. Yeah. So it was underground and he could get in and he locked them in hideous right now. He told the kids, if you try and get out, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do all sorts of terrible things.

David (11m 40s): And so all of the kids apart from one did nothing. They, they did that thing of just believed there's nothing I can do. One kid opened the window and in sweat and his way out went for help. And the guy was arrested and all the kids were frayed without harm. Okay. You know, much about trauma back then. And so they just said, Oh, you, you kids are so lucky you got away without any harm. But of course they were harmed that you just couldn't see the hand and all of the kit. And then they, they w when they, someone that they, a PhD on trauma and, and found we had and found all the kids growing up, and they will all with like hip, like simple, you know, that went from being good in class and go to school and good at home to not couldn't concentrate and were problem children.

David (12m 43s): And then maybe later it got into drugs and maybe an addiction and the lives we're kind of gone on a trajectory. We're here was the normal trajectory. And then they just went slowly, slowly at a different trajectory from that point. Yeah. Apart from the one child and that one child, the one child that was fine. It was the child that, that didn't go into it.

Mariana (13m 12s): Okay. But that, that, that's interesting. So what Why makes 19 kids not just go jellyfish. Okay. I'm not going to fight. I'm going to be live in on one. Yes. Is that not a value system, a DNA, or

David (13m 30s): He was really resilient. Maybe he was a little bit older than the other ones. Maybe he had learned from his parents' to question authority, you know, you know, and maybe he had kind of like, yeah, maybe he was the problem kid in school who was like, fuck you go to the teacher, you know? But he stayed in fight flight. He stayed with his head, like he could think, and he didn't. Hey. So he still had his faculties, right. His brain was still processing properly. And the way that it should, and he still had his power.

David (14m 10s): And in that To to get out the others, what happened was they, the, their capacity was like exceeded and all that. And it, all of that fight flight in a G didn't just dissipate. Nice. And slowly, what happens is when you go into, beyond this line of beyond fight flight, into freeze, or a flop or dissociate that energy is its like you put the Brite, your foot is still on the accelerator, but you've got all of this energy and like all of that adrenaline. Oh. And then you just put the phone on the brake.

David (14m 50s): So you got the foot, the brake and the accelerator. And so with the energy, it doesn't have anywhere to go. Right. They have an expanded it in the normal way. They haven't used in energy to dig out. And Mariana (15m 4s): So the point is that what you see people call post-traumatic disorder. Like, like what are you just saying? It's perfect. It's like you have already sent today. And then like, we're going to pray. So you go to or whatever.

David (15m 17s): Yeah. You, you, you put it on your own brain, you repress it. And in many times that's the only way to survive. Right? The only way to survive as to is to not fight back. So it can be in many, many times in most times its the best way it is at that point. If it's not the, if for no reason it is a survival mechanism.

Mariana (15m 40s): But so then what is it, all of that energy that it was in crusted out there that produces all the post-traumatic in the servers. Let's say that.

David (15m 50s): Yeah. So then what happens is the post traumatic disorder is then when that energy isn't, when you haven't, when you haven't like done the, the, that nice sign wave of, of letting go of that in it, that energy you go nice sideways. There is a nice smooth curve, ah, coming down slowly. Yeah. You you're really high up in energy. You are white knuckling that through life and then you just flop and then, and so you, you have going on this kind of like if you think of it a graph of time along the horizontal axis and that activation umm, on the vertical access, you, are you going in like a big zigzags up and down?

David (16m 41s): Like it's not a smooth curve. That's so true. You go between high, high, high activation and just dissociation Frieze where you just, you are going to burn out and then you just go,

Mariana (16m 56s): Can I ask you like, like in your life that you want, I'm sure you have plenty of trauma. Like all of us know, we know all the theory. So it, it makes you feel more conscious and like what, what is your go to strategy when you know?

David (17m 16s): Okay. So, so what, in, in another way to answer to that, what could, what could the authorities have done with the, with those children? Right? The, the, the, the, the 19 that where people just see it. No, you're fine. So firstly, you need to, you need to kind of get those children kind of talk and, and, and to almost go back there, ah, but go back there with a really, really trusted person, like, like a parent or a, or a, a therapist.

David (18m 1s): Yeah. But they really trust. And, and so, you know, maybe with, with, you know, that you could just put your hand on them on the child and say, I'm here with you a reminder reminding them, you know, to, to take their hand and just say, I'm here with you. Look, you can feel me. I'm here with you. And how did you feel back then? So you sort of go back a little bit, a tiny little bit into not reliving the whole thing because it's just going to re traumatize them, but take it a tiny little bit like Mmm. Yeah. But in a way that they know that they're really safe in the moment.

David (18m 44s): Right. So they're in the moment, but healing always happens in, in, in now. Yeah. So that they don't go, they don't lose the, now I'm a sitting in, in my lounge with my mum and dad or in the therapist, they know that they can talk about what happened from a really, really safe place. Cause the thing that says that, that heals us is connection. Yeah. Connection with, with people, with safety, with trusts with, with, with now, with your body.

David (19m 24s): So that, and it might be that, that, that they, they come in to that power again. And then they start to like have something to punch or hairs or what, you know, what, or, or dig or push. So that there is, is, there is a way that their energy can cut. That was, that was a watered for a really good PIR for really good purposes. And perhaps that, that example isn't the best example because, you know, we kinda make a hero out, have that one kid, but at any times, it's, you know, like, like, like a physical violence in, in, in the home or things like that, there is no way a child could defend themselves against like, and an older sibling of, or a father or something.

David (20m 17s): And who's comes home drunk. Right. Because in the end of the best way, it is to just make yourself small and in kind of play dead. Yeah. If you think of a,

Pablo (20m 28s): Yeah. If you think, if you think of a baby in the wild, I'm the baby with first start screaming, Because the parents may be close. So if he's his, if someone left the baby, someone left in the wild as a baby and you know, on the floor of something, the baby got lost. Somehow the baby at the beginning, we will cry. And that's good because if the parents may be closer, but then the baby goes into that state of freeze, which is sad. So survival, Because better be quiet if the parents are not close by and they didn't here, the baby's screaming better, be quiet because he doesn't wanna, you know, call us to predators.

Pablo (21m 10s): Right. So that there is obviously a survival mechanism there. So for that response,

Nico (21m 18s): I would like to ask you one more question. This is a great insight. That the way it is giving us, because I think that when they are giving us tools and an understanding of how the process is so we can take action and do different things, different strategies, but I'll let you know how you guys been doing up to now with all your experiences. What were your strategies prior to this chat with David?

Mariana (21m 47s): Well, for me like the, the, the, I have a massive trauma to giving when I was 26, actually, no one talked to me about what is trauma. And I did to myself, what, what, what the government did with the kids. Okay. It happened, you are right now. And then the time started to pass. And like Steve said, I started to go completely the other direction. To what normal was. But because it's so silent, you don't realize, I started to realize of course after a few months, because I'm like, Oh fuck, I don't smell it anymore.

Mariana (22m 27s): Or there was like a full on changes and stuff, but to be honest, and this is like, for all our listeners that they might not wake up. I actually tried to suppress it for 20 years after that, like, it did not happen. Or if it did it wasn't that important. And another thing that I will say is like, okay, well it's in the past now more forward, like all of these sort of also a spiritual quality, it's like, it's all about it now. And then you got is it's quiet. Sometimes you can have two meanings depending on where you are looking from. Right. Because now you can say, OK, the healing is from now.

Mariana (23m 10s): But someone that does not know about what healing is or why should I be healing? And it is this what I had the trauma. Then you go like, Oh, okay. So now from now, from now, from now, but then you have all this fucking back-pack that you don't know, it's a huge, giant gun, tick pain, you know? So I didn't know until someone like, of course in one point it just gets out of hand and I was like, really like dark. And I ended up going to someone and that person said, Oh my, you have so much trauma. And until another person didn't say it, I was not realizing.

Mariana (23m 52s): And that's why is quite good? What David is saying, like, another person helps you in this process, which, because I always look after myself because I'm a strong woman, but I never thought that would be, the answer is no one can help me kind of things. So that's, that's my take on it.

Pablo (24m 14s): All right. Excellent. And now it does seem that I avoided the question in the first place, because I w I think it would have talking about physical traumas a bit, and then we kind of moved to an emotional trauma. Yeah. So maybe, perhaps what was most romantic for me was, and what I, I did have it, the instancing from my family and maybe, I mean, maybe that's a dramatic or not, but that may be the most dramatic part within that is I got separated from my nephew and niece, which, which, you know, I, I, I was very close to, and I'd be, I'd lost contact with them for 15 years and I didn't go, well, there's not, you know, I couldn't, I went into that a mode where there's nothing I can do about it, about that.

Pablo (25m 15s): And yeah, after a 15 years, I reconnected with my nephew, which, well, it, it is a bit of what I thought he was going to be is nothing I can do know about that. I have to wait until they grow up and, and see whether they get in touch with me because, you know, being the ankle, obviously I couldn't impulsive. I can, I, I didn't have any, any, any tools for me to say, I want to see my name for me.

Mariana (25m 46s): You know, you, you don't think you have any like, emotional trauma of like the separation from your brothers and parents.

Pablo (25m 55s): Mmm, no, because I don't think so, because when we're talking, I think we were talking here, where are you going to have a situation where you say I kind of do anything and where I went, when I went into that mode of, I cannot do anything about that was a being separated from my nephew or niece a while with my, you know, siblings and parents. I understood it. Ah, it was the best for me. Anyway, there was a conscious decision.

Pablo (26m 36s): And, and so, you know, I, I didn't go into that mode, but with, with my nephew niece, there was nothing I could do that where a young, you know, I went into that mode. I said the, the, the, you know, the, the only way I'm going to see them again is when they grow up, they contact me, which is what happened 15 years later. But yeah.

Mariana (26m 60s): So you don't think emotionally you are like a skirt in any sense from the experience of the separation

Pablo (27m 6s): From siblings and parents.

Mariana (27m 9s): Yeah. Or yeah. Or from everything that we are family in general

Pablo (27m 13s): What well, I'm not sure I'm David, would you classify that as a trauma? It obviously is a, is an experience like something that's, you know, something that scares you, you yes. But not everything that scares you is a trauma. Isn't it? Mariana (27m 27s): I don't know. David. That's a good point.

David (27m 30s): That is a good point. Well, it's not the event. I don't know. I don't know that that's a really good question

Mariana (27m 47s): Because it is for me, like a scar it's actually equivalent to trauma.

David (27m 52s): I think so. I think so, you know, in, in some scars heal in some Scouts, don't see the most, I mean, if, if you define trauma or is, it is an overwhelming situation, everyone, every one in the world has had trauma bursts. There's a trauma, right. If you go to squeeze, it was a little off it's, you know, and then take your first breath in and things, you know, you we've all had time is when we thought, Oh my God, I could dye here. Right. And then suddenly we don't, but we weren't in control. And generally we'll talk about it will, will kind of re you know, go back there and we'll, we'll negotiate it.

David (28m 35s): And then it becomes like a life lesson. Yeah. It can actually

Mariana (28m 40s): Trauma and his cars are the same, our life lessons, but it is, it seems to me like the trauma is still when they want it. So open on the scale is when it's a sort of hail, I don't know, this is just my bullshit there. All right.

Pablo (28m 54s): The scar comes after the, the scar comes after the, the wound.

Mariana (28m 60s): Yeah. That's why I'm saying that. I don't know which has to be done.

Pablo (29m 3s): It is, is there a scar when you have healed and is there a trauma steel alive when you were still healing from it and it hasn't scared and maybe you don't even know that you're died. You know, that you're one of these open. I think that if you look at this car, depends on how you looked at the scar. You have to cut this camera and say, okay, I remember this. I'm okay with that. I did a lot of job, you know, I accept this what happened? And I'm, I'm from someplace to the point that you can joke about this car. Yeah,

David (29m 37s): Yeah, yeah. And if you acknowledge the scar, it's, it's not, it's generally not as, as bad as the ones that we don't even know that we have the, the, the wounds that we don't even know, like Mariana was saying that she kind of pull it out of her consciousness, this This thing that happened for years and years. And if it will kind of come on up and then, you know, I will avoid it because it's because it's so freaking painful to go back there, to go there, we just to avoid it. Right. And when you have all these strategies, so, so I call the management strategies and by the way, we were all just a bunch of management strategies that I call David and public Because Pablo, and right.

David (30m 29s): Otherwise we'd all be the same. We all have different lives. And we have kind of found strategies to get around our parents and get around life and, and jobs and disappointments and Swarts or desires and various things. Yeah. We've found strategies, some strategies based on something really bad that happened can be kind of not great that they can take a lot of energy or energy. Yeah. And that's, and then you find yourself kind of feeling like you're just barely holding on with the fingertips, because the strategy is based on something that it was really out of your control, and you kind of go back to that time and Pepsi, you don't even remember it.

David (31m 20s): Right. And your strategy might be, I am alone in this world. Right. I'm going to be Mr. Or Mrs. Independent, or I'm just going to be, you know, put on the other layer of having the fuck up, you know, and, and put it on another layer of protection.

Nico (31m 38s): Yeah.

David (31m 39s): Or are they, I'm not going to play tennis anymore, or it could be, I'm not going to jump to the next need, nasty borrow. It could be, I'm not going to jump, or I'm not going to go surfing because of that Shaq or whatever like that. All right. Well, I'm not going to let myself fall in love.

Nico (32m 4s): Yeah. I feel like I kind of, for instance, like I'm too old to play the guitar. Oh, fuck it. I'm not kidding. It's like, you're dramatic experience that you wanted to play guitar. I wish,

David (32m 24s): You

Nico (32m 25s): Know, but I heard this phrase is saying that, Oh, I'm too old for that. No, I can not do it. That's not for me. You know? So that's all about just accepting what it is rather than trying to something with it. So our management strategy

David (32m 40s): Might be not to allow too much energy in through life, the energy and our management, but if you might be a living in our head, right. Thinking about and analyzing everything, right. Yeah, yeah. You too. And I think everyone does that To summit more or less extent management strategy might be just being a drama queen.

Mariana (33m 7s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's true. A victim as well.

David (33m 12s): The victim victim thing is just really it's in the, in the, the, the, the trauma just keeps kind of showing up and the way I look at it and it keeps showing up is an opportunity to deal with it. And if we don't deal with it because it's too painful, then it will show up some, some of the time.

Nico (33m 38s): And I use an area where there are a really good way, what you said about it, the head Because, eh, I read in this book from Tara Brock that Jesus, that we think we are in control when we are in our mind, because we are thinking, and we have the sense of control. And you are, you, you said a couple of times that thing about that is something usually traumatic events, campers, when there is something that is outside of your control. Yes. So when you are in your mind, you think, ah, you know, actually I am in control. You are not, you think you are because you are in your mind,

Mariana (34m 12s): But what can I say it in that, in that one, also we can bring, because I became a workaholic and I was using always my mind to do something intellectual about it, or do you know, like grab a business or whatever that is also a, another management and strategy. Because basically I was not using my house at all. It was, yes.

David (34m 35s): Staying busy that sort of be staying busy as a manager. And another management strategy is pain. We can create pain really, really easily just by tightening around the, the small blood vessels that go to the muscles. And then the muscles don't get enough oxygen. And then they get sore. And the pain that we create in our own body, there is a guy called I think John Sarno and American doctor who has, has a whole kind of therapeutic system around this, that he realized that so many people with chronic pain, that it was coming to see him what they were, they were avoiding something that else that happened in their life by creating this pain, because that's going to keep me occupied.

David (35m 25s): I'm going to keep myself occupied with this pain. And because of the pain is that I'm creating, it's kind of manageable. But that thing that happened back then, that was totally unmanageable. So I better the, the, the, the, the, the chronic low level suffering. And then, then, then, then, then when you're opening myself up to the big thing, right. But actually what will find is that the, the management strategy becomes worse than the thing that it was trying to manage that is trying to control.

Nico (36m 1s): Sure. And one more thing that a lot of people that sometimes it happened to me that you identify with that. So, you know, you say, for example, if it's an illness, you will say my, for example, my back pain, or I need to say, it's not your back pain, it's a back pain. Yes. When you identify with the pain, it's yours, and then you cannot get away from it. Because if you get away from that, that's part of your personality. If that lucks last for a while, for a long period of time, what will happen to you? If you don't have that pain, it's not to you. So, you know, its like if I should circle

David (36m 42s): That's right. And that's what I was saying. Our management strategies, if we think that we have, we are separate from our management strategies, we're fooling ourselves. It's like being separate from my ego or my identity of myself. I can't do it unless I'd gone and live in a cave and hit one grain of rice or a day. Right. But, but basically on some level we are just a bunch of management strategies too. So to get through live, to survive and some of them are really good and appropriate to the situation and some of them aren't. And so some of them take a lot of energy and cause us to To to make it to us, to try and really control life.

David (37m 29s): Right. And, and, and it just blocks out their life energy that there is no there's no, there's no room for spontaneity and surprise and getting a little bit out of control. Right. That's a big way you might have all that big wave might hit, so I'm not going to go surfing anymore. Right. So, so we can, we, can we let go of some of that protection that's weighing us down. Yeah. And not just that,

Mariana (38m 3s): Because it looked like the thing here, like I always like you are so wise and I always like, you know, you have so much information because of what you do and because of what you study them, because you are a seeker. But so if you know all of this, when something comes to us, David do you go with your mind? Like to, to, to, to, to do I know what I'm doing, what I'm doing, a management, a strategy that, and you sort it out and you know exactly how you ride that wave Or is essentially quite hard for everybody. Even with someone like you with all the information

David (38m 43s): And, and you read, you can do some stuff by yourself. But like I was saying that, that the thing that, that really heals his is basically love is acceptance is connection. And so it's so much easier to do it with someone else. You know, it's like being in a herd of horses or sheep or something when the rest of the herd can eat, they've got the heads down one we'll be looking out and it's hard to have you head down doing the word and looking at the same time, because that's what we are generally trying to do. Yeah. That's so cool.

David (39m 24s): And so to have someone that you really trust like a therapist or ju like a, someone that you really trust that doesn't, it can be, you know, like just normal conversations can be so therapeutic, you know, and going for a walk with a friend. Yeah. You can really get us through sort of stuff. And it's not like face to face kind of therapy that it can be spontaneous. And, but I guess from a Beautiful Ghosts yeah. That's right. So, and, and Nico, you were talking about Terra bruh with, with, so that that's the acronym rain that she uses.

David (40m 7s): I don't know if you've spoken about it previously before, so, so recognize. So firstly, you need to recognize what's, you know, Oh, I'm going down that, that path, like I'm being triggered and I'm going into my three-year-old self or something like that, or I'm having that reaction. Oh, I'm having that reaction and I need to recognize it. Right. And so get in and that can be the hardest spit because then you are actually witnessing it. You, there is a chance, you know, you can do something, you can't do anything if you were unconscious. Yeah. If you are, if you're not only that, but it's,

Pablo (40m 50s): And, and I'm guessing you, you know, you, you are in Feldenkrais practitioner and then you get, see patients, how many come to you and they haven't even, you recognized, would you say when you have an idea that is, most people recognize it or, or most people who are wouldn't have recognized,

David (41m 16s): I'm not sure people will have an inkling, but often they recognize it. It comes up during the session. So, so when, when the body relaxes and the mind relaxes and it feels really, it like frees up these, this memory and, and, and things. Oh, that's right. Well, sometimes people go, Oh yeah, that's right. What you're doing reminds me. I have one person came from or something like a knee Neve thing. And then they S or something like that, something kind of general.

David (42m 2s): And then they said, Oh yeah, that's right. I wore a whole body corset for three years when I was a teenager, like a Hawk, like, because of something that happened, they, they couldn't move their spine for, for a whole bag or a bunch of, of it is fine. But, but that they couldn't see that might have a connection, but through the session, ah, connections were happening in the brain. Yeah. So, so what, so, and, and, and when we feel that that sense of being able to let go and be held and be safe is true.

David (42m 45s): This pattern in the brain called the amygdala is that it stops kind of short-circuiting that you're brain. And it allows for more processing to happen, you know, more of the prefrontal cortex to come online and, and the, the amygdala, that's all survival, its all about survival and the moment. So the amygdala kicks in to short circuit, Oh, should I run or should I join? Should I do this? All that you just asked? Right. There is no time to think in that moment you just act and react. Like I dunno, Mike Tyson biting Evander, Holyfield ear off.

David (43m 28s): Right. He, he wasn't Mike Tyson, the boxer in a ring, he was Mike Tyson, the kid in the streets of the Bronx. He was fighting for his life from that moment. Yeah. Losing meant death and that moment. So, you know, he was gonna fight with everything. He had a great example. Yep. And so he wasn't thinking, Oh, I'm going to cost. It cost so much money right now. And he talks about this, but he was like, no, I'll do it again. There's no other way because we are wild animals underneath.

David (44m 7s): Yeah. We are built for survival. So that was the first step I recognize. What's the second step a recognize it as, except for the second step is accept. And then now if you think of the people who are you except for exactly who they are in your life. All right. So just picture of the people that you except you're, you know, you are not, no one is perfect. And so, but you don't even care about it with those people and it might be, and also it might be a dog or a pet. Yeah. If you can't think of a person and, and, and in perhaps people or a pet that accept you for who you are, but you can just and feel their it's like, ah, I let go of my shoulder's a little bit or something.

Mariana (45m 1s): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pablo (45m 6s): Isn't that why dogs, you know, are, are such great companions, isn't it? Because they're always waiting for you cheerfully, no matter what they accept you, no matter what, what do you do? Who you are or anything.

David (45m 21s): Yeah. Yeah. And they go into, into hospitals and rest times is therapy therapy for therapy. Right. And so in that way, therapy, sorry, in that way, acceptance is love. Yeah. The people who are, who accept you in the way that you are, the people that love you and the people that you have to sit the way that you do, you love and so on. So in that way you are not judge. So there is no judgment is that the dogs don't judge you. And, and so, so you recognize whatever it is like, Oh, when that person does that, I fly into a rage and you just don't, you just accept, you are not fighting the fighter.

David (46m 7s): Right. You are not resisting the resistance or whatever. So you're just accepting, Oh, I'm feeling rage or I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling, Oh, I'm I'm shutting down. Right. Or I'm feeling the, the emotions that, the exact emotions that I'm feeling right at this moment of the trillions of different things that I might be experiencing at this moment, I'm experiencing this. So it seems I can, can not work for some people. So I, I sometimes use just become aware of it or just witness it or observe or surrender To to that thing or a lien into it.

David (46m 54s): But, but most people don't mind just observe it. Yeah. Just observe.

Mariana (47m 2s): But I think this, this Sullivan thing is that I like the key because people are straight away, you know, get like, identify with our mind. So, so this is the also de MI gloated, you end up like, you know, relating to your emotions or are you, Oh my God, I'm this anxiety. Like, it's a lot of work to go. OK. That emotion is what it is passing now. Okay. You said, you know, like this is that, that

Nico (47m 30s): Is tough if you never been taught that before.

David (47m 33s): Yeah. But it's such a freedom to, to not, to not judge what you're doing is wrong because generally we do, we go straight to correction. Yeah. Self correction. Oh, you're setting you up. I'm noticing, I recognize that I'm slouching or I need to sit up straight. Right. This is, you know, a silly example, but we, this is what we say. It's a knee jerk thing that what I'm doing is wrong somehow. So can we just take away judgement and observe?

Nico (48m 5s): Yeah. If we are, we just have a couple of minutes more so I would be great. We were still on a, we need ion in. Exactly.

David (48m 19s): Okay. So I, as to investigate and so, and it's not go straight into their head. Yeah. It's more go into the body and really notice and investigate. What does this feel like? What does this, what are the sensations? What is, and then you can go what's behind that. You know, that there is a sort of a sense of once you are relaxed in and not fighting what you are, what you've recognized and you can just kind of play in that space. Yeah. Hang out in that space and, and see what might be behind the, the, what connections that you can, you can draw it between the body, the mind and the ha and the emotions.

David (49m 14s): Yeah. And then the fourth one is of rain is nurture, which could be again, thinking about your dog, you know, who her, or, or a loved one or a grandma or Superman, or God, or, or a Madonna, or, you know, Nico (49m 39s): Well, why, why, why is that important? Because, you know,

David (49m 46s): It's like, you're kind of given it, it's that connection with something else, someone else, Or Angel's, or, or someone in your life that you really trust you, you know, imagine angels, wings around you or, or just being nurtured. Like you're a member that you were, but you wouldn't have, it should be like, maybe you were lying in warm water or

Nico (50m 18s): Yes. Or a special food or a special food with your grandma used to cook.

David (50m 22s): Exactly. Or you just, you know, how you felt when you grandma looked at, you know, but

Mariana (50m 28s): Why, why is that, that process of rain in some ways with nurture, Because recognize the safe you investigate and the deviation, the idea is like, you, you just connect more with love. And, and, and is that like a healing process of trauma

David (50m 49s): That is the healing process of trauma, that connection, that safe, connected, safe place is where the healing takes place in that safe space, in that place of ease. Yeah. In, in the body that you can feel. And, and that allows us to come up with a beta management strategy that easy and management strategy is one where we are connected because we are tribe tribal. We are herd animals. Yeah. Or pack animals. We are not supposed to be alone.

David (51m 32s): Yeah. But trauma can make us feel like we're alone. Would you agree?

Mariana (51m 36s): Oh, definitely. Completely. Yeah. Or that, yeah. Completely isolated. Yeah.

David (51m 43s): Yeah. Totally isolated. And so, you know, so we're connecting in this, this, this is the different nerves that run to the heart, the, the, the ventral vagal nerves that, that starts to start off to another circuitry that actually, you know, its not so bad, you know? And, and we can, I dunno. It's like magic happens when we start To when we start to connect and, and feel connection, be connected. David (52m 22s): Excellent. I can go through that. The, the, the science behind it, but we don't have time.

Mariana (52m 30s): No, but it wouldn't be great to have you again, because you can do so much, like it there's so much to talk a little bit.

Pablo (52m 38s): That is one of the reasons we, we go to, to like, that's why I may go through a physiotherapist or I may go to a specialist like you are. Right. I think a lot is in the chest feeling that someone is taking care of us. So if someone is nurturing us yeah. Just by itself is healing, isn't it?

David (53m 3s): Yeah. Often I'll go to the flue and I'll, and I'll go, look, I don't, I know that I don't, I'm not going to take any antibiotics because it was just a flu shot. And then for days go by and I'm in pain and they're like, Oh, okay, I'll go to the doctor. And then it stops them on the beta.

Nico (53m 27s): This reminds me of that sort of thing.

David (53m 30s): Sorry. And then a friend of mine who is a GP knows this and she, and she's like, Oh, you know, and she, and she, and she really connects with people because she knows that. And she knows that that's the thing that makes the difference.

Nico (53m 46s): I was going to say that is more for my son when he, maybe he, his lips get scared and he's crying, you know, there's nothing you can do apart from hugging him, you know, being there, call him and that's it. That's all he needs. And then two seconds later, he wants to go and play it again unless he is of course, or something more serious now. Yeah.

David (54m 12s): Well I could, I could, I could just get, I can totally segue into the, the, the theory, but, but, but, but, but maybe next time, but if you think of a baby's, they don't have a, they don't have like, He literally the nervous system is not yet formed correctly that the nerves aren't myelinated. So if they're not this slow, the it kind of unformed that, that, that sooth and the self-soothing mechanism is not on-line when they're babies and they learn from us as the caregivers to we Sue them and they learn through that to self-soothe you can imagine that you'd never had a parent who's soused you. David (54m 59s): Well, you can, you just shut down and you don't use connection as a self-soothing mechanism.

Pablo (55m 7s): You know, you say babies, but my son is nine years all the way, the other day He, you know, the, the, the door shot and he's kind of was in the middle. Wasn't it wasn't like a really bad, but you know, he, he cried and he immediately came to me and, you know, I sought him and it was that it, can you move your hand? Yes. So you're fine, but you know, it is nine years old. He's still, yeah.

David (55m 35s): Hello. I still need, I still need soothing from other people.

Nico (55m 40s): Are you all do what I'm saying? Yes. That's how I say it. That's a perfect way to, to close. I think we will have you back for sure. Yes. Yes. We won the war.

David (55m 56s): It's been great. Yeah.

Pablo (55m 57s): And, and if you wanna If, if anyone wants to check out David, his website is movetoimprove.com.

David (56m 3s): Yeah. So I found in Feldenkrais and somatic experiencing, we've been talking more about the somatic experiencing.

Nico (56m 11s): Okay. Because I wanted to ask you a lot of that.

David (56m 14s): Yeah. Somatic experiencing is kind of like this, this kind of bottom up sort of body physiology are up Method of renegotiating trauma rather than just like a talk therapy, which is, can kind of get clogged up and in thinking yes. Yeah. Yep.

Mariana (56m 37s): Oh, I can wait. Okay. Thank you so much. I don't want to know, and I feel much better. So I feel like I'm not that fucked up. And like the only thing that I have to do this, no one cares and all my problems with a week. So Henry my dog Pablo (56m 54s): David thanks very much. And that will be a great session on that. David we all say high five to the camera and hope you enjoyed this conversation. Beautiful Ghosts we invite you to join our community in our Facebook page. Get in touch. If you like to talk with us or be a guest in the car to find out how you win new conversations, have being published, subscribe to a YouTube channel, or are you in your favorite podcast? Our website is Beautiful Ghosts so of course we appreciate your feedback. You have a beautiful week.