VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard)

•.

Province of Newfoundland

FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND

Volume XLI Second Session Number 17

VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard)

Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush

Wednesday [Preliminary Transcript] 4 April L990 The House met at 2:00 p.m . convincing evidence that major public policy decisions must be MR. SPEAKER takE!n to safeguard the pr·udent Oi"der, please! management of the Northern cod l"esource. Indeed. one of the strongest conclusions in the

11 Statements by Ministers Repor·t. is that failul~E:~to tclkE! appropriate steps to reduce current J.evels of Fishing MR. SPEAKER : mortality tAiil1 rnost probably h•ad The han. the Minister of FishE!ries. to a significant continuing decline in the spalAming biomass. 11 MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, On March 30th, of The pan e 1 f u r thE' r r e c o rnrne n d s . i n this past week, my Federal the strongest possible tr:H'ms. that counterpart, the han. Bernard the:~guiding principle must bE• the:~ Valcourt, released the final imperative necessity for an report of the Harl~isReview PanE!l increasti:~in thE! size of Lhe on Northern Cod. This Report, spawning population. By which was anxiously awaited by the implication, Mr. Speaker, fishing industry at large, acceptance oF the Pane1 1 s key addressed a lAJhole range of issues recommendation that, as a matter surrounding the management of thE! of urgency, the fishing mortaJ.ity largest groundfish stock in waters be rc:~ducedto a fishing lTlOI"t.ality adjacent to our Province on which level of at least 0. 30 ilrllnediab~ly our fishing industry and economy and to the leve1 of 0. 20 at LhE! are critically dependent. Over earliest feasible date, means the past several years, thc:~rehave furthel" reduc l:ions in thE~Nol"thE·l~n been major conCE!rns raised · ovel" cod quota fi"Oin its exis l:ing level the health of the Northern cod of 190,260 tons. stock. It was in this context that the Harris Panel tAJas given a The report provides convincing broad mandate by the Government of evidc:~ncethat: a reduct.ion in Lhc: Canada to acldi"es s a wide• rangE! of fishing rnol"tality is Cl"it.ica1 and issues relating ·to thti:~managti:~ment that continuing to fish at current of this resource. Obviously, levels will not lead to Lhe conservation conce1"ns must be the desired goal of increasing Lhe overriding factor in the size:~of the spalAming biomass. Ml". management of any given fish Speaker, the Report in question stock. In this context, the confirms many of thE! consel~val:i.on Government of Newfoundland and and fisher·ies managti:'rllE:~ntconcer·ns Labrador had taken a special tAJhich the Pl"ovince has l"a".i.sE•d interest in the work of the Harris relative to the Northern cod Panel and hoJ.ds the view that the stock. In this conLext, the Panel 1 s final report provides a Province believes that it wou1d be solid framework in which totally inappropriate for both Governments, the fishing industry orders of GoveJ~nmE!I1Lt:o ·ignor·e t:he and the public at large can focus strong conservation message which on those critical issues !"elating is conveyed in the Harris Report. to thti:~managemen ·t of the Northern cod stock. The conclusions There is little doubt, Mr. contained in the final repol"'t: of Speaker, that Further quota the Harris Panel provide reductions, tAJhich t.~Jouldf1ot~.J ·Fr·om

L1 Apl"il If. , 1990 VoJ. XLI No . 1 '7 rn

a a

L2 L2

Government Government

the the

present present

the the Panel. Panel.

will will in in

reason reason

opportunity opportunity implementation implementation

Fisheries Fisheries recommendations. recommendations.

Gouernment Gouernment groups groups

that that of of

GouernmE!nt GouernmE!nt accepted accepted

is is However, However,

accepted accepted

is is

the the

known known

decline decline

mortality mortality

leuel leuel

NorthEH'n NorthEH'n

Gouernment Gouernment

and and

over over biomass, biomass,

fishing fishing

the the

interest interest

this this

Report Report

t~.Ji.ll t~.Ji.ll

of of

exploitable exploitable

future. future. the the Labrador Labrador

significant significant

clearly clearly

run run

economy economy acceptance acceptance

economic economic

recommendations recommendations

cross-section cross-section

that that

these these

detaiJ. detaiJ.

the the

Han

Harr·is Harr·is

the the

final final

earliest earliest

the the

Northern Northern

resource resource

a a

light, light,

of of

the the

haue haue

that: that:

principal principal

that that

The The

its its

is is

repeat, repeat,

not not

industry, industry,

April April

all all

risk risk

0.45 0.45

shouJ.d shouJ.d

NeiAJf NeiAJf

is is

fact fact

before before

and and

impact impact conseruation conseruation

Gouernment Gouernment

Howeuer, Howeuer,

in in

Advisory Advisory

• •

the the

rate rate

cod cod

ouer ouer

s s

of of

in in

report report

Panel Panel

and and

Panel Panel

spawning spawning

views views

Counci]. Counci]. the the

to to

of of

particularly particularly

Mr. Mr.

be be

a a

29 29

and and

29 29

ou ou

"the "the

or or

of of

initial initial

their their

initial initial

4, 4,

spawning spawning

itself. itself.

decline decline

possible possible

ndland ndland

is is

that that

our our

that that

of of

a1ne a1ne

in in

cod cod

proceeds proceeds

reuiew reuiew

of of

Province Province

major major

recommendations recommendations

of of

recommendations recommendations

make make

higher.

SpE!akeln, SpE!akeln,

their their

on on

Newfoundland Newfoundland

contributing contributing

1.990 1.990

conclusion conclusion

of of

the the

RE!pOI"t RE!pOI"t

spawning spawning

Report Report

bE! bE!

to to

It It

currently currently

our our

Council Council

population, population,

of of

the the

in in

the the

thE! thE!

is is

the the

Government Government

economy, economy,

currently currently

entirety. entirety.

all all

. .

is is

which which

is is

the the

and and

the the

their their

measures. measures.

biomass biomass

the the

giuen giuen

people, people,

the the

longe1n longe1n

inclination inclination

inclination inclination the the

social social

made made

11 11

the the

foreseeable foreseeable

Pr·ouince Pr·ouince

population population

It It

date date

Prouince Prouince

should should

has has

should should

for for

entirety. entirety.

cognizant cognizant

concerned concerned

in in

Vol Vol

Speaker, Speaker,

that that

interest interest

Report's Report's

Labrador Labrador

m•:!Ed: m•:!Ed:

Federal Federal

fishing fishing

biomass biomass

absence absence

Report, Report,

Harris Harris

at at

report report

in in

is is

up up

asked asked

uiews uiews

would would

XLI XLI

with with

this this

to to

term term

and and

the the

and and

the the

and and

the the

our our

the the

and and

key key

of of

on on

at at

of of

be be

• •

of of

be be

in in

of of

we we

in in

1 1

s s

I I

a a

s s

No No

Gouernrnent's Gouernrnent's NetAJfoundlanders NetAJfoundlanders

is is

obviously obviously

the the communities communities

understand understand

is is

entirety. entirety.

Minister Minister

posil7.ion, posil7.ion, inclination inclination

hope hope

three. three.

It: It:

recommendations recommendations

minutes minutes

a a repeating repeating

Report Report

all all

MR. MR.

Opposition

Thank Thank of of

House. House.

Let Let behalf behalf

The The Mr. Mr.

MR. MR.

Mr. Mr.

major major

report. report.

solid, solid,

:in :in

congratulate congratulate

his his

Ha1"ris Ha1"ris

Province Province call call

fishing fishing

formulating formulating

to to

advice advice

the the

consideration consideration

. .

copy copy

the the

a a

indicate indicate

the the

1 1

is is

the the

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Speaker. Speaker.

RIDEOUT

Harris Harris

let let

Speaker, Speaker,

'1 '1

Panel Panel

ITIE! ITIE!

hon. hon.

that that

future future

very very

you, you,

upon upon

should should

of of

House House

yea1ns yea1ns

not not

before before

industry industry

Government's Government's

l~eview l~eview

implications implications

me me

of of

• •

will will

bE!gin, bE!gin,

and and

repeated repeated

. .

the the

be be

on on

: :

Report. Report.

it it

imporl:ant: imporl:ant:

Min. Min.

G6vernment's G6vernment's

the the

it it

Now, Now,

in in

thank thank

its its

that that

the the

yet yet

that that

the the

Uris Uris

fir·rn fir·rn

for for

in in

ahead. ahead.

is is

its its

conservation-oriented conservation-oriented

be be

Members Members

consultation

the the

of of by by

. .

this this

:is :is

he he

Speaker. Speaker.

will will

formal formal

be be

conclusion, conclusion,

and and

Mr. Mr.

Panel Panel

accepted accepted Mr. Mr.

providing providing

LE!sliE• LE!sliE•

and and of of

line line

the the

statement statement the the

Leader Leader

fishing fishing

position

the the

complE!tion complE!tion

that that

hon. hon.

twice twice

t:~a

thousands thousands

there there

not not

Province, Province,

Speaker. Speaker.

Report Report

given given

I, I,

docurnenl:

the the

d d

hunclr·eds hunclr·eds

be. be.

on on

Government's Government's

SpE!aker, SpE!aker,

inclination. inclination.

the the

Minister Minister

Province Province

response response

for for

tAlill tAlill

Han·is Han·is

that that

it it

therE!fOI"E:!. therE!fOI"E:!.

this this

House House

yEd: yEd:

Council's Council's

aLl aLl

in in

First First

on on

. .

industry industry

oF oF

us us

initial initial

in in

I I

should should

Harris Harris

a a

of of

I I

: :

their their

1 1

every every

This This

of of

t.hat t.hat

with with

page page

side side

t~.rish t~.rish

this this

have have

Ml". Ml".

R2 R2

For For

can can

few few

l l

the the

and and

.. ..

l:.hE! l:.hE!

the the

of of

do do

hE! hE!

29 29

by by

on on

of of

in in to to

l:o l:o a a '

is to

be be

bE!

as of

the

has

l:.he

the

The

and

the

and

the

and

Dr.

and

ar'E!

One

same

both

very

that

VE!ry

this

with

madE!

l:hore

about

stock,

Han'is

Report.

welcome

able

must

irnproVE!d

positive

Minister

position

Speaker,

has

herd

the

basis

lAii.11

possible,

knows

must thc:'re

that

absolutely

has

harvesting

l:hat

Government

·that

quickly

very,

Bank.

some seriousness

ensure. a

thE!

but

conservation

the

Mr.

so Speaker,

Government SornE!thing

seal

relates

Harris

boundry

recornmendations

seals.

the the

this

reality

only

proportion

knows,

respond

harvesting,

than

Newfoundland

surveillance

that

Government urgent

Speaker,

there

take

sense

the

technology.

and

size,

areas,

Minister

ecosystem.

Mr.

the

makes

that,

better

the

Canada,

will

for

guess,

think

Speaker,

wel1.

but

made

Mr.

into

the

this

not

trans quickly

dramatically

ability

will

that

must

the

that

must

the

recommendations

areas,

and

Tail

and

mesh

in economic

technology,

Report

Mr.

lot

done

the

resolve

Government

understands

area,

significant

Harris

and

increased,

Canada

harvesting

rest Government

early

the

assistance

the

effort

time necessary

and

problem to

something increased

hopefully of announcement

announcement

bringing harvesting

specific

approach the

Harris Ministers, Jurisdiction,

addressed particularly Labrador,

Dr. the Report,

Canada, obtains technology, still

some will Nose addressed, addressed Harris,

is as

other as

manage GovernrnE!nt oriented important possible

incumbent

what

on,

it Canada

Government

we it

as as

it as

not

the

Mr. and

case

that

move

That

moVE! save

this very

0.20

must

XLI

catch

level

total

been,

where

catch)

Harr·is

Harris

TAC

1'78,000

and

300,000

believe

biomass

has

what

Speaker.

Vol

date,

what

the

mortality

allowable

allocated

number

has

yet.

levels,

scientific

to absolutely

Dr.

immediately

significant

says, increase

quickly

0.30

And

the rebuild

the

variance

Mr.

about

effort

that effort

people

total

allowable

tons

report,

are

which

immediately,

not

allowable

the

exactly as

case

1990

and

immediately in

Minister

recommended

tons.

feasible

fishing

understood,

that

immediately.

example,

effort.

some

the sustainable

Harris

back

his

!Aii11

resources

not

4.,

means.

year

about,

lAJe

most

the

there

in total

recommendation

then

For

respond

very

tons,

did

clear

the

(total

that

Dr.

tons significant

199,000

lAdth

means

get

catches

have

thereafter

125,000

just

move

April

scientific

tons

Harris's

that

earliest

that

TAC

that

and

sustained.

from

of be

clearly

regenerate

stock

talking

know,

can

financial

0.20

reduce

Speaker,

surveillance

199,260

the

Dr.

1'78,000

what

puts the

believe

Let

Speaker.

recommends

are immediately today,

the

means

·to catch from 125,000 of he of is can

Report

chosen possible

be this believe

tons possible you tons, or certainly actually hopefully statement.

there means allowable going to the recommendations Speaker, necessary L3

important I figure

other

Mr.

will

Minister Minister

Ministers. Ministers. Services Services

Mr. Mr.

LLJ. LLJ.

embarrassment embarrassment

that that Now, Now,

approval approval

on on Accord, Accord, for for

Speaker. Speaker.

Minister Minister

House House

the the

Judge Judge

Services. Services.

to to

ill--advised ill--advised

hesitation hesitation

saying saying

conform conform

on on

Premier Premier

comment comment

MR. MR.

behalf behalf

making making

in in Mr. Mr.

Opposition. Opposition.

Premier Premier recommendations recommendations

MR. MR.

Mr. Mr.

surrounding surrounding

The The MR. MR.

Hansard Hansard

SOME SOME

that that

to to

Hear, Hear,

implemented implemented

this this

the the

dealing dealing

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Speaker. Speaker.

RIDEOUT

RIDEOUT: RIDEOUT:

Speaker. Speaker.

Judge Judge

Ministers Ministers

Minister Minister

HON. HON.

certain certain

Mr. Mr.

have have

Speaker, Speaker,

hon. hon.

hear! hear!

on on

such such

Mahoney, Mahoney,

that that

of of

Administration. Administration.

was was

said said

resolution resolution

to to

in in

ApriJ. ApriJ.

of of

December December

Tuesday Tuesday

in in

of of

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

made made

for for

Speaker, Speaker,

Oral Oral

reference reference

He He

the the

: :

in in

Mahoney

his his

a a

The The

in in

the the

response response

silly, silly,

Finance Finance

the the

with with

or or

the the

positions positions

the the

such such

actions actions in in

standard standard

Social Social

the the

dealing dealing

of of

to to

its its

that that

said, said,

Minister Minister

, ,

Questions Questions

Minister Minister

brother, brother,

the the

of of

Premier Premier

view view

position position

imprudent

this this

1990 1990

1 1

night night

Leader Leader

Finance Finance

may may

the the

entirety

actions actions

to to s s

Harris Harris

that that

past past

5, 5,

yesterday yesterday

is is

Judge Judge

yesterday. yesterday.

to to

taken taken

Premier, Premier,

Services Services

Meech Meech

of of

observations observations

1 1

with with

rescind rescind

of of

I I

Government. Government.

allegations allegations

have have

1989, 1989,

acceptable acceptable

taken taken

particular particular

to to

it it

in in

of of

-of -of

that, that,

comme~nted comme~nted

the the

to to

and and

taken taken

VoJ. VoJ.

have have

behavior behavior

of of

. .

in in

• •

Mahoney Mahoney

do do

was was

it it

by by

Social Social

debate debate

Social Social

Report Report

quote quote

fact fact

XLI XLI

Lake Lake

been been

the the

our our

Mr. Mr.

and and

the the

not not

was was

the the the the

The The

the the

is is

an an

by by

on on

no no

in in

No. No.

What What

going going

level level

and and

apologizing apologizing

and and

anywhere. anywhere.

Minister, Minister,

am am

acknowledged acknowledged Mr. Mr.

phrase phrase

and and

understanding understanding

and and

In In

ill-advised, ill-advised,

fuJ.l fuJ.l

opinion. opinion. for for

to to

Now Now

~id ~id

here here

SOME SOME

his his

Speaker, Speaker,

Ministe1n Ministe1n

Hear, Hear,

Minister Minister

PREMIER PREMIER

did did

has has

MR. MR.

f.BEMIER f.BEMIER

The The

hesitation hesitation

The The

saying saying

Government Government

conduct. conduct.

in in

his his

si11y si11y

begin begin

Premier Premier

conduct conduct

Government Government

appropriate. appropriate.

17 17

this this

SPEAKER

I I

hon. hon.

not not

modesty modesty

not not

code code

Speaker. Speaker.

will will

han. han.

seen seen

HON. HON.

competence competence

the the

those those

everybody everybody

flight flight

made made

of of

not not

hear! hear!

ask ask

to to

or or

of of

the the

WELLS: WELLS:

that that

WELL§.: WELL§.:

out out

breach breach

pE:'rformance

do do

the the

going going

of of

fling fling

Administration, Administration,

I I

of of

MEMBERS

fling fling

As As

an an

with with

time time

the the

since since

require require

whatsoever. whatsoever.

flinging flinging

: :

I I

or or

breach breach

a a

is is

of of

have have

and and

ethics ethics

FinanCE! FinanCE!

Premier. Premier.

the the

a a

was was

that that

circumstances, circumstances,

in in

Finance Finance

of of

ernbartnassmr:'nt ernbartnassmr:'nt

Minister Minister

the the

am am

Minister Minister

statement statement

the the

policy policy

cannot. cannot.

entil"!:;!ly entil"!:;!ly

of of

matter matter

any any

Ministers Ministers

complete complete

to to

being being

not not

anybody anybody

: :

ConFederation, ConFederation,

and and

knows knows

my my

no no

political political

right right

totally totally

going going

Minister· Minister·

and and

Cabinet? Cabinet?

an an

and and

code code

the the

, ,

any any

fling fling

people people

argue argue

judgement judgement

hesitation hesitation

this this

but but

is is

honesty honesty

on on

of of

be be

appropriate appropriate

about about

apologized. apologized. to to

his his

of of

acceptable acceptable

of of

to to

it. it.

thing thing

anywhere. anywhere.

integrity integrity

did did

position, position,

who who

fact, fact,

that that

tolE!rated tolE!rated

will will

an an

I I

code code

the the

contrary contrary

restrain restrain

PI''OVince PI''OVince

wit~ wit~

anybody anybody

out, out,

ethics, ethics,

Finance Finance

code code

in in

arn arn

to to

expect expect

debate debate

issue issue

break break

t:.his t:.his

that that

best best

was was

not not

The The

and and

!:hE• !:hE•

Mt". Mt".

and and

the the

in in

me me

in in

of of

no no

of of

- I I MR. SPEAKER : it or the people generaJ.ly '.in l:.his The! han. the:~ Leadr:~r·of the House accept it, but they are Opposition. quite prepared to recognize the circumstances in lAJhich it lAJas -··-·------·-·-MR. RIDEOUT:-·-·-- said. to recognj.ze Uw s:incel"ity Mr. Speaker, it is not a laughing of the apoJ.ogy of the:! MinistE:!r of matter, I can assUI"e the Pl"emier. Finance, as Pr.:~rnierBourassa did Others will comment later in the when I spoke wit:h him about it. day on the competence:' of the He said, 'Do not. lAJorry about it Minister of Finance. Clyde, I understand. People in diffen~nt cil"curnstances 1nay 1nakE! Mr. Speaker, the Premier in that kind of a statE!HIE!nt in the• commenting further on Judge heat of debate at any tirne. I Mahoney's Report said in the perfectly undE!rstand it.' Now if House, 'However, he and all other Prc::~mierBourassa can unclel"stand Ministers are fairly warned that it, I arn having grave difficulty such actions are totally understanding what. is behind the unacceptable a~d in future will Leader of the Opposition's result in a request for an position. Does he just. want to immediate resignation.' create difficu1ty Ol" trouble? It is difficult enough, hE~ does not Now, Mr. Speaker, I ask the have to add to thE! d:i.fficuJ.ty fol" Prc::Hnier again, in view of such the Province in what he is doing. categoric statements by the Premier, how can he continue to MR. SPEAKER: keep the Minister of Finance in The han. the LeaciE~rof thE! the Cabinet? Opposition.

MR. SPEAKER: MR. RIDEOUT : The hon . the Premier . Mr. Speaker, rny job·in life al: the moment is not to make J.ife PREMIER WELLS: pleasant for the Prem"iel~.so hr:• With complete confidence in his should not question why we ask ability, with complete confidence questions. in his integrity, with complete confidence in what he is doing. Mr. Speaker, the MinisLE!I" of Finance took a public verbal There is no comparison between the lambasting from the Prernter two s ta te!mE! nt s . I do not know how yestE!rday in this House, pub1icJ.y, or on what basis the Leader of the live too, by the way. the lii

accept it any rna r e than I a c c l':~p ·t House, whether or not hE~ :intends

L5 April 4, 1990 Vol XLI No . 1 '7 RS

Mr. Mr.

MR. MR.

L6 L6

Mr. Mr.

DR. DR.

Minister Minister MR. MR.

the the

The The

have have Minister Minister

Minister, Minister,

in in

Minister Minister

confidence confidence

MR. MR. the the

tell tell has has Thank Thank

Finance Finance

Chastisement Chastisement

continue continue yesterday. yesterday.

boy Opposition

humi humi

MR. MR.

The The

Thank Thank

opinion, opinion,

a a

Mr. Mr.

support support

MR. MR.

The The chastisement: chastisement:

some some

DR. DR. of of

But But

intestinal intestinal

the the

resignation resignation

to to

that that

very very

Speaker

SIMMS

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

past past

hon. hon.

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

1 1

s s

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

resigning resigning

Spec:J.I

RIDEOUT

SPEAKER

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

publicly publicly

han. han.

this this

Speaker, Speaker,

ia ia

been been

matter matter

Premier Premier

han. han.

you, you,

you you

Premiel" Premiel"

the the

ted ted

voluntarily voluntarily

word. word.

Government? Government?

Minister, Minister,

April April

eleven eleven

: :

the the

of of

the the

continue continue

is is

of of

serious serious

effective effective

very very

that that

to to

. .

the the

. .

Mr. Mr.

fortitude fortitude

: : and and

in in

: :

comes comes

particularly particularly

House, House,

not not

Minister Minister

Finance? Finance?

the the

Minister Minister

to to

in in

Would Would

Finance Finance

declared declared

be be

is is

I I

4-, 4-,

the the

does does

on on

Speaker. Speaker.

much. much.

pub1 pub1

months. months.

Mr. Mr.

may may

the the

in in

have have

I I

Premier Premier

1990 1990

when when

effective effective

Leader Leader

up up

this this

disagreement disagreement

to to

a a

judgment judgment

i c c i

in in

not not

sam10:~ sam10:~

case. case.

deserved deserved

be be

the· the·

to to

Speaker, Speaker,

ly ly

how how

P1n10:~rnir:~r P1n10:~rnir:~r

where where

of of

was was

of of

be be

this this

nice nice

offN' offN'

no no

How How

his his

the the

seek seek

issue. issue.

scorned scorned

Finance

the the

Finance. Finance.

effective effective

way way

have have

intention intention

Vol Vol

Minister Minister

publicly publicly

he he

of of

lack lack

can can

post post

in in

we we

Premier Premier

I I

as as

of of

little little

it? it?

as as

House House

fully fully

case. case.

since since

as as

XLI XLI

have have

the the

The The

can can

. .

the the

it. it.

the the

his his

in in

of of

by by

my my

of of

If If

I I

a a

No. No.

The The

made made

embarrassment embarrassment

Minister Minister

unfortunate unfortunate any any

rhetoric rhetoric

MR. MR.

embarrassment embarrassment

The The

comment, comment,

the the

going going

resignation? resignation?

Let Let

and and PREMIER PREMIER

Foundation, Foundation,

positions? positions?

things: things:

ask ask

my my because because

long long

tolerate tolerate declal"ed declal"ed

recall, recall,

Lake, Lake,

after after

Budget Budget

the the

this this statements statements

Government Government

Mr. Mr.

remind remind particular. particular.

position, position,

his his MR. MR. statements statements

Province Province

admitted admitted

been been

that that

this this MR. MR.

to to

The The

Leader. Leader.

question question

17 17

Minister Minister

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

hon

the the

for for

SIMMS: SIMMS:

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

such such

me me

Speaker, Speaker,

Budget. Budget.

hon. hon.

Province. Province.

han

the the

is is

in in

time time

what what

to to

his his

payroll payroll

an an

. .

the the

statements statements

WELLS: WELLS:

House. House.

his his

and and

Premier. Premier.

the the

of of

the the

correct correct

. .

this? this?

are are

to to

in in

MinistE!r MinistE!r

thing. thing.

ask ask

himself himself

th.e th.e

of of

but but

the the

embarrassment embarrassment

in in

Pl"E!mier. Pl"E!mier.

Member Member

and and

to to

his his

the the

to to

bungling bungling

comment, comment,

MinistE•r

about about

on on

the the

Wh10:~n Wh10:~n

on on

bE! bE!

Pre~ier

and and

acknowledges acknowledges

totally totally

that that

other other

this this

to to

my my

to to

The The

for for

anstJ..JBI" anstJ..JBI"

the the

and and

not not

unaccE!ptablE:! unaccE!ptablE:!

Prern:i.er Prern:i.er

And And Finance Finance

position position

to to

He He

me. me.

full full

tax tax

Opposi.t.ion Opposi.t.ion

his his

the the

qur:~s qur:~s

he he

Many Many

the the

ts ts

The The

I I

of of

all all

:in :in

Pl"lo'mier· Pl"lo'mier·

past past

of of

the the

. .

people people

on on

House House

if if

has has

used used

the the

inappropriate, inappropriate,

I I

hE! hE!

only only

of of

s s

confused confused

did did

the the

rE!fUSE!S rE!fUSE!S

tion tion

I I

questions questions

misstatement misstatement

last last

unacceptable unacceptable

l:h'" l:h'"

Meech Meech

it. it.

Government. Government.

Premier Premier

FJ.nance FJ.nance

he he

rE!signali

has has

this this

flight flight

the the

issuA issuA

never never

said said

M:i.nister's M:i.nister's

made made

the the

people people

haVE! haVE!

gotng gotng

of of

it. it.

was was

on on

Mintster Mintster

goes. goes.

will will

say say

as as

that, that,

was was

to to

is is

is. is.

PI"C"III"ier PI"C"III"ier

in in

bungled bungled

y(~ar y(~ar

others others

Budqet Budqet

M~:•E!Ch M~:•E!Ch

silly silly

House House

. .

House House

said said

over· over· bet:.~n bet:.~n

ti.rn(:! ti.rn(:!

also also

Lake Lake

Not Not

R6 R6

the the

his his

not not

how how

his his

has has

the the

an an

of of

an an

to to

on on

so so

in in

of of

I I I I only will I not ask for the:~ response talked about how 1 MinistE•r s resignat.J.on, I wou1d cornpetc::~nthis Minister of Finance not accept it if he tendered it. rr:~allyis, Wc::~lllet US SN' how Because, Mr. Speaker, he is too competent he is. My supplemE!ntary valuable and too competent a question goes t.o the Ministe1n of Membeln of this Government, and Finance. Twenty days haVE! passed this Province needs his talents no1JJ s-.i.nce the Minister of Finance and ability too seriously to brought down this great Budget and conside1n for one mornE!nt accr:~pting his Budget Speech, on March 15. his resignation. G1noups and organizations around this Province, I say to the And as For the comments of the Minister, and businesses, are hon. the Member for Grand Falls totally confused with his (Mr. SJ.rnms) about his bungled statr:~rnents.Aftc::~1n twenty days, I Budget, he is the only one, or a want. to ask this question: Has he few opposite, who think it is figured out yet who has to pay the bungled. This entire Province is pay1noll tax? confident that t:he Minister had a splendid performance in his MR. SPEAKER: Budget, and did what: was right. The hon. the Minister of Finance . And he is talking about the payroll tax he mentioned in his DR. KITCHEN: question. Mr. Spea 'l( er, we haVE! figui"NI out and IJJe have announced in the past Mr. Speaker, the MinistE!r and the the general principles underlying Government with that payroll tax this tax. I wi1l be making a did the greatest kindness to the statement shor·tly in the HouSE! to people of thi~ Province that we clarify a few litt.1e points whoi.ch could ever do in managing our are yet to be made. financial affairs. In the end, it will be clearly seen to be as MR. RIDEOUT: such. Now I know the hon. Members You · said that three weeks ago . opposite are very concerned that l~heGovernmE!nt has scored a great MR. SPEAKER: many points in tE!rms of its The hon. Opposition House Leader . administration and its political achievement with the Budget, and MR. SIMMS: they greatly regret it. I am Thank you, Mr. Speaker . sorry about that. We did not mean to do them so much harm, but we IF ever evidence is needed with had to put the interests of the respect to the cornpEd::ence of thE:· people first. Minister of Finance, we just: ~H?i:'llnd it I bE!lieve. Let rne ask this, a MR. SPEAKER: supp1ernentary to the Minister of The hon. Opposition House Leader . Finance. Were any of thE! following, school boards, MR. SIMMS: municipaJ.i ties, hospital boar·ds or Mr. Speaker, it reminds me of the Crown corporations included in Lhe old song 1 Oh Lord It Is Hard To Be Minister 1 s caJ.culations of $15 1 Humble. That is IJJhat the Pr·~~rnier million revenue this year from his sounds like to me. payroll tax? A simple question: Were any of l:hose included in his Mr. Speaker, the Premier in his calculations?

L7 ApriJ. 4, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R'l

for for

Mr-:--·s·p

MS MS

tax tax

any any

LB LB

The The

Budget, Budget,

MR. MR.

Finance Finance

MR. MR.

Mr. Mr.

East. East.

How How

House. House. MR. MR.

DR. DR.

until until will will

The The

·--····· ·--·····

comment comment

How How expect expect

employers employers

Mr-.-"s Mr-.-"s

delivered delivered

My My employers, employers,

MS MS

are are

employers employers

sector sector

unable unable

year, year,

eighteen eighteen

The The

MS MS

Finace, Finace,

Mr. Mr.

East. East.

The The

Ml~. Ml~.

DR. DR.

statement, statement,

-~2P-

VERGE: VERGE:

question question

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

SIMMS: SIMMS:

incompetent! incompetent!

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

han. han.

KITCHEN

recE!ipts recE!ipts

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

does does

four four

han.

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

Speaker, Speaker,

han. han.

p p

have have

include include

informed informed

Speak,:>r, Speak,:>r,

e·aker, e·aker,

my my

e'a e'a

E E

.. ..

···-

and and

these these

A.~ A.~

or or

k k

admit admit

April April

that that

to to

as as

the the

. .

e e

~ ~

the the

statE!mE!nt statE!mE!nt

days days

.. ..

R R

I" I"

and and

in in

to to

the the

to to

unwiJ.ling unwiJ.ling

: :

his his

thE! thE! all all

: :

. .

the the

whether whether

is is

make make

Minister Minister

employers employers

well. well.

Mtnister Mtnister

wi11 wi11

frorn frorn

Minister Minister

this this

pay pay

4, 4,

plan? plan?

his his

I I

what what

into into

levies levies

will will

for for

after after

Member Member

lAJhen lAJhen

Member Member

Budget Budget

Minister Minister

analyst analyst

1990 1990

private private

How How

have have

th~::~ th~::~

thE:' thE:'

on on

the the

Province, Province,

revenue revenue

the the

is is

be be

the the

is is

Here Here

to to

or or

incompetent! incompetent!

of of

the the

How How

I I

payroll payroll

expect expect

this this

to to

made made

revealed

MinistE!r MinistE!r

ne1.u ne1.u

for for

Minister Minister

no no

on on

Speech, Speech,

obvious obvious

For For

explain explain

ne1.u ne1.u

Finance. Finance.

FinancE!. FinancE!.

not not

make make

budget?. budget?.

has has

Vol Vol

of of

we we

Minister Minister

does does

payroll payroll

further further

·sector ·sector

in in

figure figure

school school

Humber Humber

matter matter

fiscal fiscal

public public

Humber Humber

these these

XL.l XL.l

tax. tax.

they they

been been

are, are,

. .

his his

thE! thE!

the the

of of

to to

we we

he he

to to

of of

No. No.

1.uho 1.uho

Order, Order,

supplementary. supplementary. MR. MR.

the the

who who

MS MS

I I

This This

revenue revenue

SOME SOME

Mr. Mr.

MS MS

Hear, Hear,

MR. MR.

is is

You You

your your

Order, Order,

organizations, organizations,

DR. DR.

the tax tax the cleared cleared

MR. MR.

Oh, Oh, SOME SOME

Businesses, Businesses,

Mr. Mr.

in in

mentioned mentioned

MR. MR.

The The

promoting promoting

DR. DR.

that that sure sure

Memortal Memortal

all all that? that?

boards, boards,

corporations? corporations?

boards, boards,

ask ask

---·---·-·---·----

wrong wrong

VERGE: VERGE:

the the

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

17 17

Speaker, Speaker,

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

RIDEOUT: RIDEOUT:

oh! oh!

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

SPEAKER

is is

han. han.

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

delivered delivered

have have

HON. HON.

SpE:~akel", SpE:~akel",

ansWE!I"S ansWE!I"S

the the

is is

goes goes

hear! hear!

please! please!

question

l:hE! l:hE!

please! please!

Province. Province.

raising raising

personally personally

up up

with with

senior senior

the the

dn dn

the the

Mt,!lrlbel" Mt,!lrlbel"

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

MEMBERS

had had

fear· fear·

about about

shortly. shortly.

: :

hon on on

Provincial Provincial

is, is,

Mr. Mr.

University, University,

this this

Minister Minister

colleges, colleges,

you? you?

s s

Minister Minister

. .

Ll"aigh Ll"aigh

three three

the the opposite, opposite,

the the

amongst amongst

SpeakE!r, SpeakE!r,

citizens'homes citizens'homes

opposib'~ opposib'~

Will Will

Mernber Mernber

: :

this this

the the

is is

and and

responsible responsible

Budget Budget

othE!I" othE!I"

outrageous! outrageous!

L, L,

It It

weeks weeks

of of

Fearmongering Fearmongering

he he

for for

of of

institutes, institutes,

boy! boy!

l:o l:o

the the

will will

Ftnance

knolAJ knolAJ

and and

is is

night. night.

hospital hospital

Speech, Speech,

Finance Finance

gel gel

confirm confirm

s s

to to

rnE!rely rnE!rely

pE•ople pE•ople

other other

Crown Crown

I I

.. ..

Whr:lt Whr:lt

what what

R8 R8

For For

get get

and and

. .

to to

be be

am am

a a 1 1 MS VERGE: Can the Minister te11 us, since he Mr. "spE!aker, I caLl. on the has tried to sneak $5 m:i] '1ion of Minister oF Finance to answer this fee and licence increase in the question. Will he eliminate the Budget, what itE!ITIS thE!~~E!fE•es and realistic fears of public sector licences are, IAJherE! tho~;e drE! employers, of school boar·ds, of applied in the Budget? the School Trustees Association, of colleges, institutes, Memorial MR. SPEAKER: University, hospitals boards, The han. the Minister of Finance . senior citizens 1 homes and admtnistrators of other Crown DR. KITCHEN: corporations that they will have Min. Speaker, thE! fees and J.:i.CE!nces to pay the payroll tax? Will he are prE!tty well known now. We do eliminate those fears here and now? not know for sure -

MR. SPEAKER : SOME HON. MEMBERS: The han. the Minister of Finance. Oh my, oh my, oh my!

DR. KITCHEN: DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I have had no call We know how much the Department of From any schoo1 board, university, Justice is going to be giving us, municipality or any of these the but what has not bE!en IAJOinkE!cl out Member mentions. I do not know is how much l:he spec:~dingtickEd:s where she is manufacturing these are going to be increased and things. There is a manufactur·ing things of l:hat natu1ne. They a1ne industry going on over there, one being worked out, and I am not oF the best ones they have ever going to announce here now, Mr. created. Speaker, how much these things ar~:· going l:o be increased. What 1.ue MR. WINDSOR : have agreed to is an assessment in Mr . Speaker . fees from these various DepartmE!nts. MR. SPEAKER : ThE! han . the Member for Mount MR. SPEAKEr~: Pearl. The han . thE! MembE!r fol'' Mount Pearl. MR. WINDSOR : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speakc::~ln,the Minister of Mr. Speaker, it J.s clc::~arthe Finance has just adrn:ittecl l:hat he answers to questions which were put into the Budget an addJ.U.ona1 previously refusr:~dby the Minister tax oF $5 million on the people of of Finance the Minister still does th'i.s Province and hr:~does not E!VE:~n not know. He is trying to find a know h01.u he is going to apply it. way around the fact that he He just aclrn:ittecl that :i.n the:' bungled the Budget, that 1.ue caught House. I have never seen such him off guard in trying to broaden incornpetE!nce. the RST base. We exposed him on his Budget leak and he has not yet In view of that fact, Ml". SpeakE! In, found a way to find $15 million rnay I ask the Minisb'!r of Finance without taxing institutions, this: In view of the fact that he because he did not know he was does not: know which fees and doing it. licences are going to incr·ease, he

L9 April 4, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 1~9

MinistE!In MinistE!In

denials denials

LlO LlO

MR. MR.

Mr. Mr.

Th-eh·~

Member Member

it, it,

Premier Premier

was was

the the

up up Manitoba,

repealed repealed

There There

either either

$600,000, $600,000,

of of $300,000, $300,000,

not not

and and

government government

the the

happened happened question question Thank Thank

I I

has has

MR. MR.

The The

Minister Minister

incompetent incompetent

Minister Minister

$20 $20 going going

inclneasing inclneasing

personal personal

to to

view view

they they

that that

now now

payroll payroll

clearly clearly

. .

would would

to to

their their

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Speaker. Speaker.

Speaker, Speaker,

POWER: POWER:

he he

POWER

business business

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Tory Tory

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

hon. hon.

repealed repealed

Premier. Premier.

not not

to to

million million

so so

of of

repealing repealing

found found

the the

you, you,

up up

is is

was was

propoSE! propoSE!

-t-he -t-he

oppositE:~ oppositE:~

in in

April April

of of

tax, tax, all all

it it

: :

was was

the the

2 2

Government Government

does does like like

about about

increase increase

repealed repealed

misleading misleading

ITiandate ITiandate

they they

income income

and and

by by

what' what'

now now

and and

ProvinCE! ProvinCE!

Mr. Mr.

million. million.

tried tried

his his

priCE!S priCE!S

a a

in in

or or

and and

FinanCE!, FinanCE!,

it it

Member Member

the the

I I

Minister Minister

the the

there there

and and

$4-

in in

now, now,

the the

4-, 4-,

and and

$100,000 $100,000

Speaker

to to

in in

have have

are are

not not

Manitoba. Manitoba.

I I

or or

admit admit

they they

Manitoba Manitoba

lAJ<.,1S lAJ<.,1S

resign? resign?

vehement vehement

moved moved

that that

mi1lion, mi1lion,

sneaky sneaky

1990 1990

comments comments

viet.u viet.u

tax tax

industry, industry,

says says

they they

respond respond

have have

the the

have have

on on

was was

tax. tax.

going going

the the

I I

the the

for for

to to

gasoline gasoline

of of

a a

understand understand

half half

a a

the the

dec:ided dec:ided

his his

But But

be1ieve, be1ieve,

of of

. .

question question

going going

J.iql.lor, J.iql.lor,

that that

tax tax

disincentive:1 disincentive:1

of of

second second

Manitoba Manitoba

a a

Ferryland

went went

it it

tax. tax.

b1nought b1nought

heard heard

they they

House. House.

exemption, exemption,

exemption. exemption.

things things

do, do,

Finance

short short

got got

to to

emotional emotional

they they

change change

When When

and and

Vol Vol

will will

the the

Manitoba Manitoba

to to

of of

because because

up up

and and

repeal repeal

he he

up up

to to

in in

taxes taxes

XLI XLI

have have

when when

have have

year year

What What

they they

this this

like like

fact. fact.

and and

for for

the the

. .

his his

it it

to to

do do

in in

to to . .

of of

is is

by by

in in

is is

No. No.

Minister Minister

Now, Now,

but but

of of

it, it,

we we

colony colony

of of

Canada Canada two two

have

equalization equalization

cent cent

be be colony, colony,

such such

explaining explaining

it it and and

H H

Taken Taken

Britain, Britain,

understand understand

back back

context context

recollection recollection

Minister Minister The The

with with MR. MR.

with with

PREMIER PREMIER

ask ask

Minister Minister

from from

that that

a a

Comments Comments Minister Minister are are

as as

Does Does will will

other other

Finance Finance

speaking speaking

country. country.

Premier Premier

Lake Lake

curly curly

a a n

the the

s s

colony colony

Commons, Commons,

17 17

was was

a a r

. .

SPEAKER

han. han.

are are

I I

Newfoundland Newfoundland

huge huge

with with

sti11 sti11

a a

the the

of of

and and

is is

live live

being being

new new

we we

economic economic

d d

is is

I I

the the

out out

unders unders

Minister Minister

comments, comments,

Now Now

in in

only only

those those

WELLS: WELLS:

the the

having having

i i

in in

whE!n whE!n

comments comments

ultimately ultimately

colony colony

the the

of of

the the

if if

have have

of of

effectively effectively

need need

we we

s s

read read

rules. rules.

Premier, Premier,

of of

provinces, provinces,

here here

the the

of of

in in

was was

PreiTiier PreiTiier

a a

of of

: :

quite quite

of of

that that

a a

otheru..rise, otheru..rise,

them, them,

I I

that, that,

Finance? Finance?

which which

thrust thrust

t t

Finance Finance

l:and l:and

wiJ.l wiJ.l

he he

became became

PrE:'mier

to to

Members Members

h h

and and

colony, colony,

infamy infamy

context, context,

central central of of

a a

colony colony

he he

a a

l: l:

not not

Hansard Hansard

lAJant lAJant

of of

to to

comments comments

circumstances circumstances

the the

xplanations, xplanations,

find find

on on

Finance Finance

concurs concurs

having having

nE!W nE!W

using, using,

t t

says says

administered administered

which which

transfers transfers

thE

the the

agrE:1e agrE:1e

is is

what what

as as

I I

h h

Finance. Finance.

they they

and and

sett1e sett1e

of of

agree agree

e e

made made

decided decided

does does

. .

• •

went went

a a

when when

Monday Monday

t.uould t.uould

sed sed

oF oF

of of

we we

with with Minister Minister

to to

mE! mE!

confederation confederation

M M

concerned concerned

ourselvE~s ourselvE~s

I I

Canada? Canada?

the the

an an

same same

that that

Province Province

no. no.

i i

and and

I I

were were

taphor taphor

n n

I I

understood understood

to to

I I

Britain Britain

ceased ceased

i i

with with

the the

haVE! haVE!

on on

he he

with with

the the

fo1n fo1n

s s

economic economic

ask ask comments comments

economic economic

wi11 wi11

in in

of of

and and

by by

am am

t t

like like

saw saw

60 60

t t

in in

J.et J.et

as as

E! E!

sE•e sE•e

words, words,

In In

as as

to to

night. night.

I" I"

HouSE! HouSE!

given given

as as

agree agree

Meech Meech

RlO RlO

such such

that that

~~OnE! ~~OnE!

this this

some some

sure sure

the the

lAJ lAJ

per per

l:h1~ l:h1~

the the

The The

say say

the the

his his

far far

\:.he \:.he

the the

us us

of of

in in

to to

lilY lilY

by by a a

in in

go go

j.f. j.f.

we we

of of

to to

I I

s s I I appreciate th'at those are the MR. SPEAKER : circumstances in which it is The han. the PrE!mier . used. But in principlE! it is not at all unlike the concerns I have PREMIER WELLS: addressed, that Newfoundland and ·Th!i:1·····-answ·e--r:··-·- is no, Ml". Speaker. the smaller provinces of Canada When we negotiated the Terms of cannot effectively address our Union in 194-8 and 194.9, we cou1d economic disparity because we do not alter then the Canadian not have the means of impacting on Constitution. That was the the exercise of national Constitution of the whole of legislative and economic Canada. Now we ar'E! in thE• procE!SS decision-making power. That, I where we can cause chang~!!st:.o be understand, is what the Minister madE!, and any GoVE!InnrnE•nt in th:Ls was saying. If that was is it is, Province worth its salt would rnake then I agree with him. sure that any changes in tJw Constitution tA.d.11 not k1::!ep us MR. SPEAKER: foreVE!In in that economic co1onia1 The han. the Member for Ferryland . status. And that is what this Government is doing. MR. POWER: M1n. SpE•aker, a supplementary just There was nothing we could have on that point. I mean, if the done in 194-9 in negotiating the Minister of Finance says that we Terms of Union to alter the Senate are, and I suppose the Premier has structul"IO! of Canada, or the samE! problem I have. I read Newfoundland's position in the Hansard, I read what the Minister Senate. Newfoundland's position said in his speech, and I can only in the Senate was provided in thE! assume that what he said is what BNA Act in 1867, when four seats he meant, and he said that we have werE! provided for, and in the gone from being a colony of change in 1915, I thoink it was, England, Great Britain, to bedng a · when it was increased from four colony of Canada. seats to six seats.

MR. SPEAKER: Now thE!rE! lAJas nothing lAJe could clo Order, please! tJ.Jith that in 1949, it tJJas provided for in thE! BNA Act and IAJE! couJ.d The hon. gentleman is on a not negotiate that kind of an supplementary and should get to amE!ndment. But tJJe can notJJ, M1~. the question immediately. Speaker, and that 'is E:'Xactly lAJhat the Government is doing. The han. the Member for Ferryland . MR. SPEAKER: MR. POWER: rhe han. the Member for Ferryland . Mr. SpE!akE!r, the question :is, quite simply, if we are still a MR. POWER: colony of somebody, whomever it Ml". Speaker, I arn g1ad to hE•aJ" the happens to be, is the Minister of Pl"emier say that, and I am glad to Finance's and the Government's see that this whole process of the position today that we made a lot Minister of Finance is not sirnp1y of bad mistakes, and that we did a a rE!Ctifying of a L.:i.bE·ra1 rrd.s t:ake very poor job of negotiating b1:1ing in 1949, and ol:hel" L'.'ibeJ~al part of the Confederation of mistakes in 1967 OJ" 1968, when IAJE! Canada in 194-9? did Upper Churchill.

Lll April. 4· , 1990 Uol XLI No. 17 R 11

MR. MR.

fact, fact,

of of Member's Member's

irresponsible irresponsible

accept accept

make make

moment moment

L12 L12

appear appear

Minister Minister

I I

that that

However, However, are

for for

opinion opinion The The

again. again.

that that

MR. MR.

and and spoke spoke

The The

comments. comments.

people people Mr. Mr.

who who

PREMIER PREMIER

I I

you, you,

a a v.Ji v.Ji

new new

after after based based

the the

Minister Minister

process process

large large

applause applause

apologized, apologized,

spitefulness, spitefulness,

said? said?

in in

confederation confederation

the the If If

Premier Premier

Let Let

him him

th th

new new

regret regret

have have

the the

Canada, Canada,

1.ue 1.ue

POWER: POWER:

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

hon. hon.

answer answer

the the

Canada Canada

Premier? Premier?

bel

not not

me me

short short

that that

this this

it it

way, way,

you you

process process

basis, basis,

to to

number number

his his

Canada Canada

new new

Member. Member.

not not

are are

who who

say say

to to

that that

WELLS: WELLS:

this this

And And

you. you.

I I

han. han.

eve eve

The The

of of

Aplnil Aplnil

responsibility responsibility

proposing proposing

the the

explained. explained.

political political

please please

Premier Premier

that that

of of

it it

got got

is is

did did

and and

comments comments

question, question,

the the

and and

with with

is is

have have

if if

on on

to to

regulations, regulations,

would would

to to

getting getting

the the

it. it.

answer answer

That That

Premier. Premier.

I I

still still

difficult difficult

Member Member

way way

of of

Finance, Finance,

if if

why why

comments comments

does does

just just

about about

we we

self-evident self-evident

rne. rne. 4-, 4-,

How How

I I

with with

the the

build build

he he

curlies curlies

of of

revenge revenge

gathered gathered

Minister Minister

that that

the the

it it

regret regret

it it

case. case.

How How

tell tell

1990 1990

are are

Bourassa. Bourassa.

when when

look look

I I

keeps keeps

Premier, Premier,

do do

to to

that that

purpose purpose

having having

means means

vindictiveness, vindictiveness,

is is

You You

not not

I I

the the

even? even?

the the

new new

Liberal Liberal

understood understood

expressed expressed

That That

a a

quite quite

set set

can can

going going

will will

build build

you you

and and

although although

you you

going going

before, before,

me me

at at

new new

it it

that. that.

Minister's Minister's

there there

got got

trying trying

rules rules

why why

I I

suit suit

for for

opposite. opposite.

of of

will will

you you

and and

from from

is is

Vol. Vol.

- I I -

what what

received received

it, it,

build build

make make

actions actions

to to

cannot, cannot,

explain explain

is, is,

if if

through through

and and

at at

process process

simply. simply.

a a

cannot cannot

rules, rules,

caucus caucus

it it

So So

mE! mE!

why why

to to

build build

XLI XLI

most most

is is

And And

thE! thE!

the the

but but

the the

got got

now now

the the

the the and and

the the

ask ask

the the

new new

in in

we we

in in

it it

on on

to to

by by

be be

he he

I I

a a

No. No.

great great

The The

great great

chastised for for

Mr. Mr.

because because

with with

message message

they they MR. MR.

Now, Now,

more more

bloodJ.usts, bloodJ.usts,

understand understand

will will

kind kind

see see

message message

ask ask

res1

'I 'I a a

The The

PI~EMIER PI~EMIER

message message

MR. MR.

the the

speaking speaking

which which

I I

SOME SOME

time, time,

Mr. Mr.

Hear, Hear,

and and

MR. MR.

1·-he·

One One

this this

MR. MR.

on on

Speaker. Speaker.

LibE!ral LibE!ral

the the

hastisr::~ment. hastisr::~ment.

wi11 wi11

a a

. ? ? .

··

it. it.

17 17

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

····h ····h

hon. hon.

gn. gn.

was was

distinct distinct

MJ.n"ister MJ.n"ister

SpE!aker, SpE!aker,

POWER: POWER:

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

some some

Lab1nado1n. Lab1nado1n.

Speaker, Speaker, POWER: POWER:

rest rest

Minister Minister

the the

effective effective

HON. HON.

final final

he he

han. han.

the the

Legislature Legislature

are are

o o

understanding understanding

integrity, integrity,

hear! hear!

of of

final final

n-~·-·-·t)l n-~·-·-·t)l

are are

iF iF

WELLS: WELLS:

send send

to to ask ask

Governrnr::1nl: Governrnr::1nl:

thE!re thE!re

than than

. .

that that

the the

wrong. wrong.

peopl~". peopl~".

blood blood

of of

Minis Minis

Minister Minister

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

Members Members

not not

blood blood

supplementary. supplementary.

their their

he he

all all

e e

irresponsible, irresponsible,

but but

Premier. Premier.

the the

them them

it: it:

of of

I I

speaking speaking

Me Me

what what

is is

tE•r tE•r

message, message,

supplementary, supplementary,

he he

way way

going going

I I

do do

upon upon

wants wants

French French

rn rn

in in

'is 'is

FinanCE! FinanCE!

J.E!t J.E!t

great great

people people

be be

Premier Premier

apolog-ize.' apolog-ize.'

on on

normal normal

no no

I I

opposite opposite

on on

a a

does does

no no

of of

to to

r' r'

Quebec, Quebec,

of of

or: or:

not not

stood stood

I I

clear clear

accept accept

thE! thE!

l l

beha1f beha1f

t.uas t.uas

me me

justification justification

f f

to to

send send

Finance, Finance,

in in

o o r

Nc~wFoundland Nc~wFoundland

the the

knolAJ knolAJ

l:o l:o

honesl:y honesl:y

and and

have have

my my

Finance Finance

in in

·. ·.

not not

tEd

fioo1n. fioo1n.

has, has,

political political

a a

see see

debate debate

Fe Fe

and and

one one

prope1nly prope1nly

message, message,

cornmE!nts cornmE!nts

want want

a a

SE!nd SE!nd

and and

Canada, Canada,

1 1

Eng1ish Eng1ish

it it

r r

of of

floor, floor,

of of

r' r'

done. done.

final final

clear clear

agree agree

y y

w>it:h w>it:h

Rl2 Rl2

said said

thE!rn thE!rn

that that

more more

d d 1

Not.u Not.u

and and

lhe lhe

any any

and and

~11 ~11

was was

the the a a

to to

in in

n n

I I

a a . . hon. Members opposite someholAJ l.o~Jant answering this question. WE! had to see him hung, dralAln and the estimates of the Finance quartered. Well I, Mr. Speaker, Committee yesterday morning and am not a butchE!r. I am a thE!Ine was onE! Mernbeln flnorn the political leader, not a butcher. Opposition lJJho u..Jas thE!l"e, Min. Windsor, who asked some MR. WINSOR: questions. Another Member was

Mr. Speaker . then~ from thE:' Opposition l.o~Jho never opened his mouth. That. t;.Jas MR. SPEAKER: the proper time to examine the The hon. the Member for Fogo . Minister of Finance on his EstimatE!S and his Budget and thE!Y MR. WINSOR: did not show up. What a sham, Mr. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Speaker. What a sham! Minister of Finance. Traditionally, over the past MR. RIDEOUT: number of yE:~ars,sevE:~ral fish This is the proper time for you to plants in this Province have write your resignation. received Government guaranteed loans to gE!t l:hern through the MR. SPEAKEf~: season. The Minister has alrE:~ady The hon. the Member for Fogo . announced that some plants lAJill not rec1?ive guarantN~d loans. Can MR. WINSOR: thE:~Minister inform this House if The Minister get: s a l ittle bit any loans have been approved, and excited and ca1nried away one ~ in is he now ready to table the list awhile. of guaranteed loans to fish plants? Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to MR. SPEAKER: the Minister. fhe Fogo Island The hon. the Minister of Finance. Co-op has requested a loan for quite some time now. I have DR. KITCHEN: questioned the Minister outside Thank you, Mr. Speaker . the House on, I think, l:hl"!:'t? occasions. Can the MJ rl".i.s'lE!r teJ.l I am no l: going to table he1ne now us the status of that loan, and is things which are under negotiation it in any way tied to a lnE•qUE:'St with the Government. We have made by a plant- in tht::- aroa, in tabled here recently the list of ·Twillingate, which lAJe understand payouts we made. Almost all of has had their request turned them were guaranteed loans clown? Was the Fogo IsJ.and Co--·op advanced by people opposite, under request for a loan tied to thal:. in very dubious circumstances, I any way? might add, very dubious. MR. SPEAKER : SOME HON. MEMBERS: The hon. the Minister of Finance . Oh, oh! DR. KITCHEN: DR. KITCHEN : Mr. Speaker, 1 will not be Well, we had to pay $40 million discussing thE! aFfe:d.rs of plants last year for bad debts which at this stage. thE!Se people set up in their political crassness. Let me say AN HON. MEMBER: one more thing, Mr. Speaker, in They are t he affairs of th~:!

Ll3 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R13

would would

done done

When When

further further

Does Does

MS MS

The The

Ll4 Ll4

MR. MR.

I I

has, has,

MR. MR.

I I

The The

MR. MR. East. East. response.

DR. DR.

get get

You You

Thank Thank

arrived arrived

which which Minister Minister

influx influx

Services, Services,

the the

benefit benefit

direct direct

of of Minister Minister

by by

Mr. Mr. cost, cost,

to to MS MS

MR. MR.

M"r--:-sp-8 M"r--:-sp-8

The The has has

consider consider

MS MS

East. East.

ProvinCE!, ProvinCE!,

appr-E!ciatE• appr-E!ciatE•

DUFF

DUFF: DUFF:

Social Social

would would

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

SPEAKER

hon

the the KITCHEN

han. han.

RIDEOUT: RIDEOUT:

Province. Province.

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

tell tell

haVE! haVE!

han

perhaps perhaps

in in

some some

Speaker, Speaker,

that that

I I

the the

give give

you, you,

was was

but but

: :

. .

a a

. .

questions. questions.

answer. answer.

read read

fact, fact,

k k

in in

to to

April April

the the

of of

the the

e e

my my

this this

oF oF

of of

the the

had had

of of

r r

boy

us us

I I

answered answered

thE! thE!

Mr. Mr.

mean mean

Services, Services,

us us

: :

. .

like like

recent recent

the the

Minister Minister

question question

would would

Finance Finance

Minis Minis

Finance. Finance.

had had

Member Member

thE! thE!

. .

it, it,

Member Member

having having

refugees refugees

twenty-four twenty-four

done, done,

that that

what what

4, 4,

Speaker. Speaker.

net net

I I

question question

Province Province

that: that:

Do Do

calculations calculations

a a

1990 1990

tr:!r tr:!r

I I

to to

months. months.

like like

would would

answer? answer?

cost cost

by by

you you

1ittle 1ittle

or or

for for

may may

the the

for for

if if

thE! thE!

or or

of of

the the

table table

Now Now

of of

had had

have have

he he

to to

St. St.

benefit benefit

who who

St. St.

FinancE!

unansWE!red unansWE!red

yesterday, yesterday,

have have

is is

rE!sponse. rE!sponse.

net net

Minister Minister

Vol Vol

hours hours

like like

Minister Minister

to to

alrE!ady alrE!ady

timE! timE!

is is

ask ask

Not Not

that that

Is Is

of of

John John

it? it?

Social Social

John John

XLI XLI

that that

some some

this this

able able

have have

cost cost

the the

. .

the the

to to

1 1

to to

he he

1 1

s s

wi wi

No. No.

message message

MR. MR.

Services

ThE! ThE!

here here

MR. MR.

long-term long-term

is is

which which

transients transients

been been

because because

their their

participating participating

ask ask these these

again again

being being

stay stay

Province Province

to to

that that considerably considerably

is is

MS MS certainly certainly

ignorant ignorant

only only The The

MR. MR.

Assuming Assuming

I I

The The

question. question.

MR. MR.

DR. DR.

yes, yes, East. East. Minister Minister

I I

bE!Cause bE!Cause

answer answer

net net

calculations calculations

t:h t:h

would would

asking asking

.. ..

DUFF: DUFF:

_ _

b.Jill b.Jill

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

17 17

EFFORD: EFFORD:

that that

SPEAKER

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

han. han.

KITCHEN: KITCHEN:

Speaker, Speaker,

cost cost

han. han.

han

the the

rnade rnade

in in

Federal Federal

in in

I I

incornpetE!nt, incornpetE!nt,

the the

highly highly last last

made made

have have

will will

. .

my my

. .

St. St.

we we

I I

contribution contribution

this this

have have

the the

benefit? benefit?

can can

answer answer

the the

saying saying

as as

Minister Minister

benefit. benefit.

the the

a a

say say

we we

if if

that that

the the

Province Province

did did

know know

and and

: :

If If

question, question,

night, night,

question. question.

say say

have have

John

been been

to to

less less

Minister Minister

well, well,

there there

immigration immigration

qua1iFied qua1iFied

have have

Member Member

reap reap

Province Province

in in

only only

to to

answe1n answe1n

she she

we we

Mini Mini

not not

Canadian Canadian

part part

yes, yes,

yes

will will

the the

now now

encourage encourage

all all

s, s,

say say

set set

than than

cannot cannot

but but

been been

I I

publicly publicly

wants wants

th10:1 th10:1

stein stein

. .

is is

rE!ally rE!ally

when when

is is

oF oF

have have

for for

that that

would would

l~hE! l~hE!

statement statement

it it

Mr. Mr.

indicate indicate

and and

our· our·

of of

t:hal:. t:hal:.

is is

any any

arlnog

Forth Forth

so so

ben(:!f:Lts ben(:!f:Lts

the the

our our

refugei

any any

done done

as as

St. St.

of of

Finance. Finance.

one one

ITIE! ITIE!

a a

officials officials

reap reap

cit

this this

will will

yE•s, yE•s,

them them

meetings meetings

that that

net net

~lE!ar' ~lE!ar'

Speaker, Speaker,

1ikE! 1ikE!

lAJas lAJas

any any

problem problem

figurE·s figurE·s

spee1.ker' spee1.ker'

Sod.a1 Sod.a1

effort effort

stated stated

to to

on on

John John

clear clear

fully fully

as as

zens, zens,

!S !S

Rl4 Rl4

Lhat Lhat

that that

~ost ~ost

does does

has has

the the

and and

thE• thE•

say say

not not

the the

as as

of· of·

of of

to to

be be

1 1

a a s s Government, and as a Department MR. R. AYLWARD: and Minister of Social Services, I am just trying to point:. oul: the is that lJJE! do not t;.Jant anybody. incrE!aSes in Uds BuclgE•t. Mtn. any refugee claimant coming into Speaker. These increases I just Newfoundland to leave Newfoundland read out, it has been explained under pr•~ssure.They a11 have the what: they are for. But thN't~is opportunity to stay in also a Heading in this patnt of thE! Newfoundland as long as they Budget which is 1 other 1 and wish. We arE! providing them with increases taxes by $3.2 million the opportunity, if they so under the Heading. 1 other. 1 Would desire, to stay in Newfoundland or the han. Minister tell us what to move to any province they lAJish taxes he is taking from the people in Canada. Nobody is being for·ced and trying to hide away in this to do anything against their lAiill Heading? or their wi s hE!s . MR. SPEAKER: --~ ·- MR. R. AYLWARD: The han. the Minister of Finance . Mr. Speaker. DR. KITCHEN: MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker. had the ME!I'IlbE!r'been The hon. the Member for Kilbride . at the Estimates hearings yesterday he would h~Wf!been able MR. R. AYLWARD: to answer all these questions. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for Let me just say. since he t;.Jas not the Minister of Finance on this there, that these items have year's Budget. I waited to ask increased for var'ious reasons. l:he this question after the estimates main reason being that tAle E!XpE!Ct were done, because I know the some inflation this year. As you Minister would have been briefed know, the Retail .Sales Tax fairly well and up-to-date on the increases as inflation increases, Estimates in this year 1 s Budget. and so do the other· ques ttons as well, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. if l:he hon. Minister would look at Statement ii. Roman MR. SPEAKER: numE!ral Page II. under Provincial Question Period has expired . Taxation. he will see that Retail Sales Tax has been increased by $35 million, petnsonal income tax Notices of Motion by $20 million, gasoline tax by $2 million, corporate income tax by $9 million, tobacco tax has a $1 MR. SPEAKER: million increase, mining tax and The han. thE! Gove1nnrnent House royalties $2.3 million, and the Leader. new health and post-secondary education tax is increased by $15 Order, please! million. MR. BAKER: MR. SPEAKER: fhank you. Mr. SpeakE!r. I give Order. pleasE•! notice that I will on tomorrow rnove, pursuant to Standing Or·der DOE!S the han . Member plan to read 50, that the debate or further the Budget? consideration on motion No. 12, the Constitutional resolution

L15 April 4, 1990 Vol XLI No . 1 '7 R15

WHEREAS WHEREAS

Newfoundland Newfoundland

deteriorate, deteriorate,

WHEREAS WHEREAS

route route

WHEREAS WHEREAS

of of

Newfoundland Newfoundland 331

3.3 3.3

Ll6 Ll6

Minister Minister

Transportation. Transportation.

Horwood; Horwood;

BE BE

Mr. Mr.

road road

Mr. Mr.

MR. MR.

town town

prayer prayer

tourism tourism MR. MR.

hon. hon.

Roger's Roger's The The

Order, Order, Fi Fi the the

Province Province residents residents

MR. MR. petition petition

amendments, amendments,

relating relating

adjourned adjourned

preambles, preambles,

not not

that that

consideration consideration

standing standing

the the

l: l:

the the

10 10

SPEAKER

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

PENNEY: PENNEY:

hon. hon.

be be

Speaker, Speaker,

kilometers kilometers

Premier Premier undersigned undersigned

of of

Speaker, Speaker,

to to

motion, motion,

331. 331.

11· 11·

through through

people people

further further

David David

please! please!

of of

Cove Cove

Horwood: Horwood:

as as

to to

April. April.

and and

the the

of of

the the

in in

pave pave

of of

to to

the the

of of

well well

the the

: :

on on

the the

RESOLVED RESOLVED

the the

Newfoundland Newfoundland

and and

Member Member

and any any and

and and

thE! thE!

saw saw

Petitions Petitions

Government Government

motion motion

of of

Works, Works,

the the

I I

shall shall

schedules, schedules,

clauses, clauses,

Government Government

of of

postponed. postponed.

S. S.

a a

I I

, ,

the the

as as

the the

of of

petition: petition:

rise rise

dirt dirt

the the

Boyd's Boyd's

behalf behalf

residents residents

name name

1990 1990

The The

fit fit

intersection intersection

town town

Government Government

any any

will will

the the

for for

that that

hindrance hindrance

road road

not not

Gilbert, Gilbert,

community; community;

community community

road road

No. No.

Services Services

amendments amendments

to to

petition petition

of of

resolutions, resolutions,

of of

good good

that that

Cove; Cove;

Lewisporte. Lewisporte.

road road

b~~ b~~

present present

read read

pave pave

on on

sections, sections,

pave pave

has has

of of

12 12

VoJ. VoJ.

thE! thE!

Horwood. Horwood.

of of

betWE!811 betWE!811

further further

of of

to to

health health

titles titles

route route

and and

shall shall

XL.T XL.T

seen seen

hon

has has

the the

and and

the the

240 240

of of

to to

of of

a a

. .

No. No.

officials officials

my my

the the

genuine genuine assure assure

work work hon. hon.

done done

therefore therefore

residents residents

done

However, However, Newfoundland Newfoundland

~ppreciate ~ppreciate

Mr. Mr.

not not

financial financial months months

the the area area

is is

to to

I I

They They

that that that that

whom whom of of

to to

hindrance hindrance

are, are, gE!t gE!t

condition condition

average. average.

this this

one, one, to to

the the

higher higher

using using Mr. Mr.

have have

plnOtJnuding plnOtJnuding committee, committee,

bedding bedding the the

stretch stretch

to to

rea rea

caJ. caJ.

in, in,

signature signature

see see

privately privately

impose, impose,

17 17

possibJe. possibJe.

the the

. .

the the

other other

point point

House House

Minister Minister

to to

of of

particular particular

committee, committee,

Speaker, Speaker,

1 1

conclude, conclude,

the the

that that

is is

in in

appear appear met met

Speaker, Speaker,

i i

the the

we we

in in

restraints restraints

z z

I I

$5 $5

ago ago

and and

every every

e e the the

you you

of of

number number

point point

fact, fact,

result.ing result.ing

look look

road road

of of

than than

arn arn

with with

conditio

road road

that that

with with

Mr. Mr.

Lhis Lhis

inherited

billion. billion.

to to

And And

211.0 211.0

that that

of of

th1nough th1nough

we we

of of

and and

of of

thE!Y thE!Y

the the

to to

I I

not not

road road

of of

comrnunity comrnunity

paved. paved.

on on

their their

surE! surE!

to to

if if

ownc?d ownc?d

. I I .

into into Assembly Assembly

strE!tch strE!tch

realize realize

the the

this this

wouJ.d wouJ.d

has has

thE!Int::~fore, thE!Int::~fore,

as as

can can

area. area.

in in

using using

that that

no no

in in

the the

Horwood. Horwood.

the the

Speaker, Speaker,

the the

somewhere somewhere

of of

tourism tourism

are are

Pr·ovincc::' Pr·ovincc::'

he he

all all

concerns concerns

I I

the the

that that

has has

n n

a a

all all

thE! thE! this this

deter·ioJ"atc:~d deter·ioJ"atc:~d

in in

development development

bE• bE•

. .

hesitati

the the

there there

wo wo

t.uouJ.cl t.uouJ.cl

motor motor

road road

aVE!rclge aVE!rclge

vehicles vehicles

this this

concer·ns concer·ns

res res

local local

ver·y ver·y

signaturE!S signaturE!S

realize realize

fhat. fhat.

peU peU

the the

oF oF

like like

u u

onl.y onl.y

. .

top top

road road

the the

detE!r'iorated detE!r'iorated

considE!rably considE!rably

3 3

1 1

of of

t.ue t.ue

the the

of of

a a

sur·face. sur·face.

Members Members

would would

d d

u u

opinion opinion

matter

Provincial Provincial

1 1

tion, tion,

recluct.ion recluct.ion

U11

kilometer kilometer

t o o t

have have

rea]

hav

and and

P1novince P1novince

l:.ha l:.ha ask ask

opinion, opinion,

Honuood. Honuood.

originaJ. originaJ.

road road

of of

is is

road road

is is

can can

oF oF

I I

deficit deficit

in in

I I

to to

service service

o! o!

t.lAJeJ.ve t.lAJeJ.ve

darnage darnage

n n

hicles hicles

is is

e e

I~ I~

. .

rn6 rn6

. .

li.k

1noad 1noad just just

. .

that that

page page

are are

l·ds l·ds

can can

c L L

see see

had had

l: l:

the the

now now

dd dd

to to

an an

he he

or:· or:· he he

in in

be be

he he

of of

an an

to to

of of

to to

I I

E! E!

a a I I Thank you. Mr. Speaker, we tAJi.l1 put. it. Lhis

way. custom d:l.ctates that t.~H:!u..Jou1d MR. SPEAKER: deliver a petition and then The hon. the Minister of Works, someone speaks on the Oppos:l.te Services and Transportation. side and then it closes. ThaL has been the custom in thE! six YE!ars MR. GILBERT: that I have been here. ni an kyou· ..;··- M r . speaker . However. Mr. Spc:>aker. I am glad to I hesitated because I was giving speak in support of my collea<)Ue the ME!rnbers on the other sidE! thc:1 thE! ME!mber for' Lewis portE! (Ml". opportunity to speak first and I Penney) and the peU.l:ion from l:hE! would close the debate on it. So people of Horwood. if you would like to speak - No doubt thc::1y haVE! concerns about MR. SIMMS: their road as do many people in (Inaudible). Newfoundland because we have somewhere in the vicinity of 2600 MR. GILBERT : kilometers of gravel road :in this No, you may speak now . Province which we inherited when we took ove1" the GoVE!l"rll'flE!nt fror11 MR. SPEAKER: the previous Government that had The hon. the Minister of Works, been there for seventeen years. Services and Transportation. No wonder Members opposite would MR. GILBERT : feel embarrassed and would not Mr. Speaker, as I speak to close want to get up to support this this debate by view of thE! fact petition because they had that the Opposition chose not to seventeen years to do something support this petition, - about it but they did not. So that is the reason I u..Jas tAJa:iting. AN HON. MEMBER: I was expecting them to get up and (Inaudible). at least support the petit:ion but. they were too embarrassed and I MR. GILBERT: can understand why. When you gE•t You were given the opportuni t:y to a situation where th!O:' roads u..wrE! stand. left in the condition they were in this Province by the previous MR. SPEAKER: Government, I can understand why Order, please! they would be embarrassed to speak to transportation issuE·s Ol" speak I would just like to remind the to petitions fl"Om people anytAJhere hon. Minister there is no order in in this Province. petitions. The hon. Minister can now speak and that does not rule And the people of HOl"tAJood havE• out somebody from the Opposition taken advantage I suppose of Lhe speaking later. He might be o1dest Form of getting thE! confusing it with another debate. attention of GovernrnE!nt by petitioning it. The o1dest Form fhe hon. the Minister of Works, in the world, people have been Services and Transportation. petitioning Government for centuries. So I can recognize MR. GILBERT : their concerns. I knot....J that l:he

Ll'l April 4-, 1.990 Vol XLI No. 17 rn7

MR. MR.

rl1

from from

wear wear L18 L18

officials officials million million So So

priority priority establishing establishing

under under

project project

road road

on on

fact fact

fri.::1nds fri.::1nds the the

I I

jackets jackets

the the

that that

with with Province Province

not not

the the

roads. roads.

years, years,

fairness fairness

thing thing

subjected subjected

people people

years years

with with

them them

this this

budget budget

political political

have have

seventeen seventeen

restraints restraints

hear hear

petit.ion petit.ion

District. District.

As As

this this

current current

his his

hard hard

el1on·~·

. .

will will

tJJith tJJith

the the

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Speaker

R. R.

money money

District District

he he

more more

we we

the the

year. year.

roads roads

2,600 2,600

the the

your your

been been

Members Members

on on

the the

we we

that that

AYLWARD

the the

consideration consideration

certainly certainly

is is

in in

budget budget

Federal Federal

in in

Government Government

also also

in in

have have

in in

ApriJ. ApriJ.

So So

of of

that that

reason reason

Member Member

hear hear

he he

unfair unfair

behalf behalf

and and

by by

have have

is is

for for

years years

patronage patronage

to to

constitUE!nts constitUE!nts

announced. announced.

same same

. .

subjected subjected

other other

we we

Ottawa, Ottawa,

that that

Ottawa, Ottawa,

roads roads

And And

kilometers kilometers

the the

budget budget

MernbE!r MernbE!r

realizes realizes

this this

when when

not not

his his

and and

this this

in in

something something

: :

in in

place place

the the

under under

have have

opposite opposite

alluded alluded

for for

balance balance

local local

, ,

tried tried

the the I I

of of

transfers transfers

treatment treatment

jacket, jacket,

thE! thE!

of of

last last

available available

take take

mind mind

we we

words, words,

1990 1990 has has

is is

Members Members

point point

next next

colleagues colleagues

for for

misrule misrule

throughout throughout

the the

here here

capital capital

Province Province

when when

was was

$30 $30

haVE! haVE!

it it

the the

very very

the the

to. to.

Province. Province.

roads roads

are are

the the

and and

they they

the the

after after

worked worked

four four

that that

to to

And And

in in

fellows fellows

Kilbride

year. year.

to to

in in

talk talk

on on

of of

million million

out out

like like

to to

votes votes

people people

the the

announced announced

the the

seventeen seventeen

financial financial

concerned concerned

under under

cut cut

UoJ. UoJ.

You You

petition petition

say say

that that

initiate initiate

the the

sort sort

to to

ask ask

to to

we we

Horwood Horwood

in in

that that

do do

a a

is is

:is :is

gravel gravel

years. years.

to to

roads roads

1noads 1noads

about about

XLI XLI

high high

this this

$100 $100

pave pave

when when

back back

were were

blue blue

will will

away away

tE!ll tE!ll

very very

are are why why

who who

and and

for for . .

the the

him him

two two

the the

So So

my my

is is

of of

we we

in in

No. No.

Government, Government,

Member Member

Cabinet Cabinet

do do

deteriorating deteriorating

Speaker. Speaker.

I I petitions, petitions,

for for

who who

and and

to to

former former

petition, petition,

not not

have have

prepared prepared

the the

last last

pave pave

who who

this this

Mr. Mr.

from from

the the

announced announced

promise promise

own own

know, know,

Speaker, Speaker,

make make

Speaker. Speaker. this this

know know

Member Member

Speaker, Speaker,

gets gets

little little

fairly fairly

paved, paved, rights rights

him him

MR. MR. Horwood Horwood

to to

constituents constituents

to to

I I

Lewis Lewis

Thank Thank

also also

had had

know know

support support

not not

17 17

last last road road

Speaker, Speaker,

advice, advice,

for for

R. R.

to to

when when

this this

paved paved

just just

year year

porte porte

also, also,

up up

your your

transcripts transcripts

work, work,

this this

excuses excuses

his his

you you

election. election.

every every

that that AYLWARD: AYLWARD:

where where

not not

get get

Government Government

bit bit

it it

be be

for for

to to

ably ably

wish wish

sorne sorne

. .

exactly exactly

his his

election, election,

for for

and and

in in

his his

very very

That That

Mr. Mr.

to to on on

I I

cri cri

constituents constituents

Speaker, Speaker,

petition petition

Min:i.ster Min:i.ster

and and

road road

if if

was was

prE!Sent prE!Sent

and and

hirn hirn

constituents constituents

up up

shy shy

to to

when when

of of

and and

canc~::1lled canc~::1lled

Mr. Mr.

their their

Budget Budget

for for get get

just just

intention intention

Leu.dsporte, Leu.dsporte, (Mr. (Mr.

so so

Horwood Horwood

I I

ticiH~d ticiH~d

they they

rE!ason rE!ason

be be

for for

by by

to to

they they

constituents constituents

in in

much, much,

Speaker, Speaker,

and and

gE!t gE!t

do do

is is

money money

advice advice

this this and and

c.un c.un

why why

bad, bad,

wh1':!n wh1':!n

to to

and and

why why

the the

paved paved

h1:! h1:!

Speah'r, Speah'r,

of of

a a

suggest suggest

the the

tJJant tJJant

Budget. Budget.

u.1ant u.1ant

the the

glad glad

fight fight

not not

the the

a a

do do

the the

. .

up up

last last

to to

this this

or or

criticize criticize

Ramsay), Ramsay),

Mr. Mr.

dtd dtd

copy copy

is is

Mr. Mr.

prE!SentE!cl prE!SentE!cl

the the

. .

hon. hon.

pE•tition, pE•tition,

the the

this this

is is I I

the the

cornrn:i.tl:ed cornrn:i.tl:ed

1ne 1ne

t~as t~as

SpeakE!r, SpeakE!r,

road, road, not not

to to

oF oF

support support

yoUt·' yoUt·'

ancl ancl

Member Member

Government, Government,

in in

bE• bE•

during during

get

to to

presE~nt.tng presE~nt.tng

to to

their

not not

they they

not not

year, year,

Speaker. Speaker.

for for

Town Town

when when

road road

Min

road road

tAJht::!n tAJht::!n

and and

M.::Hnb1':!r

of of

. .

road road

speaking speaking

the the

afraid, afraid,

Hansard Hansard

Lo Lo

alrE!ady alrE!ady

be be

on on

aker

give give

il:. il:.

tiny tiny

a a

not not

expect expect

' '

do do

done, done,

doing doing

money money

:i.

their their

t~rUl t~rUl your your

R18 R18

will will

ster ster

that that

copy copy

road road

hE!re hE!re

why why

Mr. Mr.

t~as t~as

the the

Min. Min.

l:he l:he

Mr. Mr.

for for

h:i.s h:i.s

new new

. .

is is

in in

hE! hE!

"it "it

to to

of of

h1:• h1:•

so so

a a

s s

a a . . your job as the Mernber for of privilege that was raised by Lewisporte to work on behalf of the han. Member For Ferryland on your constituents and come out: the closing moments of the sitting strong, fu11 bl.ast agc:,..:inst U1E! on Friday, March 30, 1990. Minister lJJho had cancelled the funding for the paving of the road I must say I was quitE! conceJAnE•d to Horwood which was already lAJhen the Member r·aised thois pooi.nt announced two years ago. of pr·ivilege, and undE!J"standtng the highly charged situation at Mr. Speaker·, there have bE!en two thE! time, I expect the ME!mbeln had different budgets prepared under every right to J"aiSE! the point. ol the Ministership of the present priviJ.ege. I have examined Minister of Works, Services and Hansard and r'1':!ad carefully aLl oF Transportation. He had tlAJO thE• mattE!rS and dec:l.sions rE!l.atE•d opportunities to provide the thereto, because every hon. Membc~r funding that was already announced knows in such mat t ers of and already put in place in the privilege, all au t horities Department of Transportation some emphasize that the word of han. two years ago, yet he refused to Mc:)mbers must be accepted ·in such include this in his budget. matters.

Mr. Speaker, thts is a result of The DE!puty Chairman explairH'!d his the present Government reducing circumstances at thE! ttrno ancl the the former Govenrment' s capital Premier commented that he had 111ade works program for the Department no repreSE!ntati.ons to the of Transportation from $50 million Speaker. And I can categor·ica1ly a year, which we had, to $30 and emphatically state that I was million a year, which is not not approached, or received in any adequate to keep up with' the needs way, shape, or fo1nrn, any of the improvement oF highways in representation fro1n any Mornb(•r' in this Province. The funding should this House on thE! day in question be higher, the $10 million surplus or· any other day ··· and that the Premier has now should be par·t.:i.cularly that day - respE!C U.ng used, Mr. Speaker, For· maintenanCE! to the decisions that:. lJ..J(•r'E• 111ad"' on the highways and capital money concenling the motion to movE! Hw should be put :into new projects resolution to Cornrnil:tee or· l:he and new paving of roads throughout matter of Division. this Province. In co nclusion, allow me to say And I do wish to support. the han. that pro c edures for dealing with Member for Lewisporte, Mr. these matters are clearly laid out Speaker, I support him very in our Standing Orders and past strongly and I support his practi ces, as lJJell as those of the petition very much so. And I will House of Commons, and are to be let thern know, Mr. Speaker, that deaJ.t lJJith in this House, in l::.hE·se the money lAJas in a budget and it chambers. That is whore was taken away by the present reprE!Sentati.ons are madE!, and that. Minister of Transportation. is where they arc:) discussed - and nowhere E!1SE!. And I lAJant to MR. SPEAKER : emphasize and accentuatE! thE'! fac l::. BeforE! proceeding with c aJ.l i ng the that in my attempt. to ma i ntain t.he Orders of the Day, the Chair would dignity and respect for the likE! to make a ruling on a point Speaker's office and its

L.l 9 April 4, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R19

MR. MR.

The The

L20 L20

Mr. Mr.

MR. MR.

Leader. Leader. MR. MR. debate, debate,

MR. MR.

the the

Let Let

important important

I I do do

with with

Placentia Placentia

you. you.

make make

MR. MR.

properly properly

fhe fhe

in in

satisfied satisfied U1e U1e

Members, Members,

The The

Just Just

properly, properly, with with

facts, facts,

privilege. privilege.

conditions conditions

section section

l:he l:he been been

acceptable. acceptable.

or· or·

impartiality, impartiality,

prima prima

I I

A A

thank thank

am am

any any

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

TOBIN: TOBIN:

Day Day

practices practices

SPEAKER

me me

hon. hon.

POWER: POWER:

Speaker Speaker

offices offices

hon. hon.

its its

hon

established established

Speaker, Speaker,

the the

sure sure

for for

disputE! disputE!

facie facie

therefore therefore

just just

Beauchesne Beauchesne

way way

first. first.

I I

the the

one, one,

. .

ApriJ. ApriJ.

does does

Orders Orders

the the

so so

West

guess, guess,

Spe!aker Spe!aker

and and

the the

11 11

a a

as as

to to

job, job,

that that

: :

that that

the the

Member

to to

call call

and and

of of

Member Member

moment, moment,

case case

that that

page page

u..Ji11 u..Ji11

. .

the the

my my

LJ., LJ.,

Member Member

no no

of of

to to

demean demean

of of

not not

I I

the the

- I

things things

Government Government

say say satisfied satisfied

arising arising

for for

1 1

things things

intenU.on intenU.on

1990 1990

and and

which which

. .

s s

of of

other other

13, 13,

the the

pro~ess. pro~ess.

the the

allegations allegations

be be

adjourned adjourned

paragraph paragraph

For For

ruJ.ing. ruJ.ing.

Chair, Chair,

that that

let let

the the

pl~ivilege• pl~ivilege•

in in

parliamentary parliamentary

fulfill fulfill

for for

the the

and and

tolerated tolerated

Day Day

Chair Chair

Ferryland. Ferryland.

were were

accordance accordance

were were

procedures procedures

Orders Orders

is is

me me

Vol Vol

I I

Chair Chair

I I

Burin Burin

was was

that: that:

betlAJeen betlAJeen

but but

concur concur

quote, quote,

House House

Thank Thank

could could

thank thank

I I

XLI XLI

done done

very very

done done

the the

not not

the the

31, 31,

has has

of of

or or

to to

am am

of of

or or

no no

No. No.

Canada Canada

debate debate Speaker, Speaker,

important important

this this

States States debate, debate,

Government Government of of

today today Newfoundland Newfoundland

Something Something

Leader Leader

debatE! debatE!

has has

the the

something something

Now, Now,

shameful. shameful.

a a

shameful. shameful. five five

Mr. Mr.

ago ago

resolution, resolution,

stood stood

great great

today today

have have

Mr. Mr.

moments moments

it it

MR. MR. leFt, leFt,

But But

Member Member

things things

find find

I I

debate, debate,

MR. MR. if if

Motion Motion

MR. MR.

begins, begins,

Placentia Placentia

motion motion

as as

think think

Canada Canada

is is

17 17

I I

TOBIN

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

Speaker, Speaker,

I I

sugges sugges

BAKER

Speaker, Speaker,

structure structure

the the

known known

short short

out out

we we

Mr. Mr.

is is

Legis1ature Legis1ature

think think

approx'.imat1::'ly approx'.imat1::'ly

in in

insult insult

checked checked

and and

knows. knows.

Mr. Mr.

something something

12, 12,

of of

12. 12.

I I

to to

that that

in in

for for

I I

as as

for for

I I

debate debate

: :

somE!thjng somE!thjng

to to

: :

his his

but but

Government Government

to to

Speaker

want want

that that

l:ed, l:ed,

this this

and and

wonder wonder

it it

America America

Mr. Mr.

haVE! haVE!

House House

days days

stand stand

Tht1 Tht1

After After

what what

he he

West West

ThE! ThE!

invoke invoke

this this

closure. closure.

the the

deny deny

no no

us us

I I

thE!re thE!re

we we

tirn!i:~. tirn!i:~.

Speaker, Speaker,

in in

just just

to to

bE!forE:~ bE!forE:~

Speaker. Speaker.

part part

after after

with with

is is have have

could could

has has

to to

of of

Chamber Chamber

thi.s, thi.s,

as as

ME!rnbE!r ME!rnbE!r

J.ongE!r J.ongE!r

about about

of of

this this

. .

has has

Government Government acl:ions acl:ions

as as

if if

Leader Leader

democracy democracy

now now

going going

the the

in in

Legislatun• Legislatun•

say say

arE! arE!

as as

thE! thE!

that:. that:.

adjourned adjourned

Five Five

the the

debate debate

a a

no1.u no1.u

this this

left left

of of

MaybE! MaybE!

tu..Jelve tu..Jelve

c1osurE!, c1osurE!,

vital vital

he he

the the

happened happened

Chamber. Chamber.

House House

Five Five

probably probably

Mr. Mr.

few few

the the

a a

this this

a a

tho tho

Mli:'lrlb~::1rs Mli:'lrlb~::1rs

Fol" Fol"

in in

the the

being being

country country

know know

has has

would would

introduced introduced

and and

ri.~~ht ri.~~ht

that that

to to

hal.f hal.f

couplE! couplE!

today today

Table Table

days days

country. country.

the the

Speake•r. Speake•r.

clays clays

or:~ or:~

on on

thE! thE!

Premier Premier

moments moments

I I

rntnutes rntnutes

and and

Burin Burin

United United

changE! changE!

bE!f:•n bE!f:•n

Leader Leader

Member Member

as as

House House

after after

think think

R20 R20

par par

this this

here here

mind mind

hour hour

han. han.

it, it,

see see

l:he l:he

few few

the the

of of

to to

as as

of of

oF oF

is is

on on

oF oF

is is

we we

of of

to to

l: l:

. .

a a - something, Mr. Speaker, that could Speaker, if he wanted to debate seE! Canada changed dt"astically. this issue. But instead of that And for the President of Treasury he has decided to bring in closure. Board to stand in this House today and to bring in closure is He has decided, Mr. Speaker, to unbelievable - heavy handedness rnug the Legislature thE! pJ.ace that like we have never seen before, will make the ultimate decision as total disrespect, Mr. Speaker, for to whether or not Canada stays democracy. ·together as L\Je knoLIJ it. As to whether or not, Mr. Speaker, we It is funny, Mr. Speaker, when you are a part of Canada. As to see the countries in Eastern whether or not we as Canadians, Europe making such progress that Newfoundlanders living in Canada, the Minister, the President of will be entitled to thE! satTIE! typE! Council, or the Government House of benefits. Whether· or no l:. we Leader would today make such a wiJ.l. be entitled to the same typE! regressive step in democracy in of revenues from Ottawa over \:he this country as we have known it. next number of years. Whether out" social programs will stay in tact, Mr. Speaker, why does the Mr. Speakr:~r.Whether pE!Ople LldlJ. President of Treasury Board, why be able to qualify for l.l[C. does the Government House Leader WhE!ther ther'E! wi11 bE! such a not want to come here next week? program as family allowances and What is the rush? What is the old age pensions, Mt". ~:>peaker. t"ush, Mr. Speaker? Why, after That iS LIJhat the Minis tE! I" of only five days of debate, on Treasury Board is trying to rnuzzl.e something as important to this here today. That is what l:he nation, to this country. Mr. President of Treasury Board is Speaker, we could conceivably be trying to· rnuizle here, bE•cause the Province that will destroy without a Canada thE!rt::' wiLl. bE! no Canada, that will never see Canada social programs. again as we have known it. This is the Legislature thal:. tAiill make SOME HON. MEMBERS: the ultimate decision as it Hear, hear! relates to Canada. The President of Treasury Board today, Mr. MR. TOBIN: Speaker, has brought in something Without a Canada, \:here tAli11 bo no that thE!Y haVE! been fighting for Mr. Valcourt and Mr. C1nosbie and in Eastern Europe and have these corning to Newfoundland, as obtained in the last few years. thE! media tndtcated today, to rnakE! a major announcement on funding Why does the President of Treasury for the fishing industry. Board not want to debate this, say on Monday of next week? Why does AN HON. MEMBER: the President of Treasury Board (Inaudible). t..uant to rush through and not get into next week and debate it, Mr. MR. TOBIN: Speaker? I am sure t..ue could have Pardon? very hot and heated debate in this Legislature next week. The Well, I do not know probably it is . President of TrE!asury Board could have a very hot and hr::!ated debate But the bottom line is l:.ha t in this Legislature nE!Xt wer:~k,Mr. without a Canada we will not be

L21 Apr·il 4, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 I~21

wi11 wi11

Canada Canada

days. days.

of of Newfoundlanders Newfoundlanders L

which which

Speaker. Speaker.

Now Now

Mr. Mr.

places places

peoplE! peoplE!

Government Government

the the

whether whether that that

That That in in

our our

Province. Province.

lAJill lAJill

there there

or or Lake Lake

here. here. is is

That That

Plan, Plan,

put put

to to

Mr. Mr.

is is

MR. MR.

who who

it. it.

we we

AN AN of of

is is

Pardon? Pardon?

to to John's John's

today

they they

of of

(Inaudible). (Inaudible).

part part able able

part part

their their

22 22

HON. HON.

continue continue

our our

this this

Canada Canada

have have

any any

this this

Opposition, Opposition,

TOBIN: TOBIN:

SpeakE!r, SpeakE!r,

Speaker, Speaker,

not. not.

what what

no no

something something

are are

revenue revenue

is is

we we

is is

Accord Accord

is is

are are

. .

to to

of of

be be

of of

has has

Mr. Mr.

wi11 wi11

Mr. Mr.

which which

not not

who who

has has

programs, programs,

and and

South South

MEMBER

you you the the

constituents. constituents.

a a

tAJhat tAJhat

Canada Canada

do do

April April

unemployment unemployment

The The

who who

country country

medicare, medicare,

known. known.

have have

the the

getting getting

not not

deciding deciding

Province Province

refused refused

Speaker. Speaker.

fact, fact,

you you

is is

SpE!aker. SpE!aker.

of of

we we

want want

Whether Whether

now now

it. it.

be be

get get

issue issue

want want

defend defend

to to

is is

it it

fundamental fundamental

would would

we we

part part

we we

wi11 wi11

into into

social social

Canada Canada

: :

tAJi.ll tAJi.ll

like like

4, 4,

being being

a a

get get

have have

the the

to to

want want

beE!n beE!n

cost--shared cost--shared

is is

M1~. M1~.

your your

to to

If If

have have

are are

Canada Canada

social social

as as

your your

Your Your

1990 1990

we we

laid laid

to to

that that

Government, Government,

of of

speak speak

we we

not not

fact. fact.

today. today.

we we

social social

the the

60 60

this this

like like

stand stand

not not

people people

something something

the the

Whether Whether

you you

Speaker. Speaker.

we we

to to to to

put put

programs programs

talking talking

cover·ed cover·ed

to to

debated debated

Canada. Canada.

will will

insurance insurance

a a

constituents constituents

are are

constituents constituents tAJill tAJill

per per constitUE

is is

off off

be be

After After

be be

muzzle muzzle

be be

future future

have have

GoVE!rnmE!nt GoVE!rnmE!nt

Assistance Assistance

rights rights

on on

to to

want want

the the

Province. Province.

consider, consider,

programs

structure structure

in in

Vol Vol

at at

If If

progr·ams progr·ams

not not

entitled entitled

of of

cent cent

able able

part part

not not

in in

muzzle muzzle

or or

behalf behalf

nol: nol:

Today, Today,

50-50, 50-50,

Meech Meech

thEdr thEdr

stake stake about about

there there

by by

knotAJn knotAJn

XLI XLI

five five

that that

this this

That That

here here

that that

That That

part part

Mr. Mr.

the the

not not

the the

nts nts

of of

to to

if if

of of

be be

a a

. .

No. No.

fish fish

Grand Grand

the the

Mr. Mr.

mouth. mouth.

John's John's

you you

for for

carr·ied carr·ied

You You

MR. MR.

You You

We We

because because

want want

South's South's

Treasury Treasury

much much

We We

WE! WE!

sent sent

Meech Meech

defended-. defended-.

to to

Meech Meech

constituents constituents

rights rights MR. MR.

Treasury Treasury

Yes Yes

Government Government

days days

You You

for for

Speaker, Speaker,

AN. AN.

months months

legislators legislators

place place debate. debate.

debate debate

lake lake

on on

SpE!aker, SpE!aker,

shameful shameful

triE:'d triE:'d

blanket. blanket.

The The

. .

are are

be be

want. want.

day, day,

this this

17 17

TOBIN: TOBIN:

MURPHY

want want

were were

TOBI

we we

werE!. werE!.

HON. HON.

were were

Speaker. Speaker.

the the

him him

Government Government

iF iF

plant. plant.

three three

invoking invoking

Accord Accord

we we

Lake Lake

muzzlc:>d muzzlc:>d

to to

Lake Lake

not not

South South

want want

Bank Bank

We We

the the

of of

~:!: ~:!:

to to

we we

Mr. Mr.

(Mr. (Mr.

l~he l~he

it. it.

here here

MEMBER: MEMBER:

public public

issue issue

muzzled muzzled

you you

to to

St. St.

When When

Board Board

make make

has has

public public

: :

Mt~

muzzled muzzled

Board Board

have have

muzzled, muzzled,

Is Is

had had

Accot~d Accot~d

It It

We We

Newfoundlanders Newfoundlanders

it it

day day

Accord. Accord.

. .

public public

Speaker

see see

in in

Member Member

had had

to to

did did

months

were were

(Mr. (Mr.

to to

be be

and and

Muq>hy) Muq>hy)

rhaL rhaL

triE!d triE!d

that. that.

Speai

John's John's

never never

by by

was was

closure

to to

sut~e sut~e

The The

tAJe tAJe

after after

was was

It It

have have

for for

hearings. hearings.

and and

House House

the the

be be

closure closure

debate debate

on on

standing standing

not not

hearings hearings

fight fight

the the

and and

debated debated

wondering wondering

now now

on on

is is

the the

hr::•arJngs hr::•arJngs

muzzled. muzzled.

. . what what

boy. boy.

muzzled. muzzled.

. .

Matthc:>tAJs) Matthc:>tAJs)

people people

fo1n fo1n

is is

the the

on on

l:hat l:hat

to to

I I

been been

President President

fhal:. fhal:.

five five

send send

opened opened

. .

President President

fish fish

const:i

tAJho tAJho

we we

the the

Leader, Leader,

abi.1ity abi.1ity

doubt: doubt:

aFter aFter

Member Member

For For

St. St. ~3t. ~3t.

muzz1E! muzz1E!

thE! thE!

the the

fisheries, fisheries,

WE! WE!

brought brought

the the

you you

WE:~ WE:~

wan

previous previous

muzzled. muzzled.

is is

rnE! rnE!

cat

days days

it, it,

of of

Fishery Fishery

in in

on on

olutely olutely

do do

John's John's

bat.tlc"! bat.tlc"!

p1ant. p1ant.

on on

John's John's

t.uent.s t.uent.s

clo clo

agenda agenda

to to

t t

whE!re whE!re

lAJant.? lAJant.?

Meech Meech

three three

T.ied T.ied

R22 R22

yout~ yout~

lAJhal: lAJhal:

very very

hE·re hE·re

five five

u..Jho u..Jho

St. St.

For For

not: not:

the the

Mr. Mr.

the the

his his

Mr. Mr.

Uw Uw

not not

us, us,

My My

of of

be be

of of

as as

of of in in Does the Member for Bel1 Island of Canada. (Mr. Walsh) wanL to be rnuzzl1~don the Meech Lake Accord? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. g10~ntJ.eman'sti.rnE! is up . MR. WALSH: I will talk to you in th1n10~e MR. TOBIN: minutes. Mr. Speaker, by leave .

MR. TOBIN: In closing let Tnf:' say I hopE! thE! He is going to speak in three President of Treasury Board will minutes. He wi11 h~t.us know then withdraw his decision to invoke if he agrees l.1.lith closure. It is closure and let us debate. I will a very important issue and why the ask him to consider it. President of Treasury Board, the Government House Leader, why he MR. SPEAKER: wants to get clear of the heat of The han. the Member for Mount Scio thE! debatE! in this Legislature is -Bell Island. beyond me. Why can we not d101bate it for the rE!St of thE! week and MR. WALSH: come back again next week and Thank you, Mr. Speaker . debate it, up unti1 Wednesday or Thursday? Contrary to the fears and innuendoes and everything eJ.se Will the President of Treasury t h a t h a v e b e e n c o n j u I" e d u p b y my Board forget about closure and say friends, I suppose, I Lo..Jasgoing to to us that he will come back next say learnl'::1d, but that would nol~b1:! and debate this resolution? Will correct - my friends i.n t.hE• he let the House come back next opposition. Allow me to assure week and debate this resolution? all of you that on June 24.th, whE~n As I said I can assure the the sun comes up over Signal Hill, President of Treasury Board that there wi 11. b !'::' a Canada , the I"e w.i.ll there will be lots of heat in this be a strong Canada made up Qf Legislature next week to debate Canadians who care! this resolution. The debab-, L•.r.ill be hot. We wi11 ensurE! that thE• It is har'd to bE-lievE!, Mr'. debate is hot, heavy and heatful. Speaker, that people IAJould come to What we have seen today is an speak in this Chamber, knowing attempt to muzzle outright thE! full well that: the fabr·ic of l:his Members of this legislature in country is madE! up of pE•ople frorn bringing in closure. Let me say all lands. Asians i.H'E:' as welcomE! to the nE•wer Members, to the here as they have been for the Members in the backbenches, I hope last 100 years. Ital.i.ans L'lrE• in all sincerity that you realize welcome here as they have been for the actions of the President of a 100 years, as are the I~us s ians, Treasury Board. I hope you as are the Irish, as are the realize that what he has just done Scottish and as are the French! is asked this Legislature to We are all Canadians, first and invoke closure. After five days foremost. fhe only problH1n w1:• he has invoked closure in this have today is wi t.h the proponents Legislature, denying me and you, and those tJ..Jho have to, in any IAJay and all other MernbE!Ins, the right they can, defend Meech Lake. to participate in a deba·te on an Whether t:hey are defending Meech issue that Lo..Ji.lJ. decide the futurE• Lake because they believe in it or

1..23 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 1(23

QUE!bec. QUE!bec.

Meech Meech

for for

Quebec, Quebec,

Meech Meech

also also

against against

Canadians Canadians

who who

them them

For For

the the

it it

few few

its its come come

Federalism. Federalism. fears fears

They They probably probably

is is

The The

proponents proponents concerns concerns

creating creating

who who

merits merits

Toronto Toronto

and and

it it

Speaker, Speaker, the the

is is

I I

pres pres

those those

is is

to to

House House

Lake Lake in in

_ _

if if All All

say say

line, line, House House

believe believe

thirty-one thirty-one

to, to,

2 2

have have

is is

not not

defend defend

that that

Ottawa Ottawa

problem problem

said: said:

them them

Accord Accord

federalism, federalism,

en en

and and

telling telling

they they

thirty-one thirty-one

to to

problerri problerri

rninute•s rninute•s

or or

have have

was was

to to

Accord. Accord.

defend defend

generated generated

Lake Lake

just just

own own

l: l:

Lake Lake

with with

have have

spells spells

believe believe

I I

and and

as as

merits merits

with with

thE! thE!

and and

when when

support support

in in

because because

the the

April April

view view

they they

Star. Star.

the the

where where

one one

surnrned surnrned

can can

in in

are are

much much

to to

the the

speaking. speaking.

it, it,

the the

should should

a a

as as

Accord, Accord,

its its

is is

of of

proponents proponents

it, it,

contained contained

lies. lies.

8ut 8ut

pE!Ople pE!Ople

on on

demise. demise.

they they

with with

facts facts

Sadly, Sadly,

to to

from from

thE! thE!

to to

fact fact

us us

of of

the the

moral moral

it it

assure assure

we we

this this

cannot cannot

These These take take

4-, 4-,

ME!E!Ch ME!E!Ch

not not

telling telling

toeing toeing

the the

it it

on on

with with

justification justification

not not

fearmongering fearmongering

or or

say say

this this

on on

and and

fresh fresh

in in

the the

someone someone

it it

politicians politicians

MeE!Ch MeE!Ch

create create

as as

heard heard

to to

dismantling dismantling

warn warn

1990 1990

take take

it it

it, it,

of of

this this

the the

and and

of of

Accord Accord

a a

to to

becauSE! becauSE!

because because

the the

a a

country. country.

January January

up up

are are

its its

major major

a a

that that

the the

justification. justification.

obligation obligation

rejection rejection

document. document.

rejecting rejecting

do do

Lake Lake

defend defend

you you

the the

side side

. .

Mr. Mr.

of of

this this

final final

place. place.

because because a a

It It

han. han.

against against

litmus litmus

are are

It It

in in

discord discord

us us Lake Lake

side side

bE!St, bE!St,

Accord Accord

the the

Accord, Accord,

in in

excesses. excesses.

the the

it. it.

unfounded unfounded

political political

is is

seeds seeds

Vol Vol

that that

Speaker, Speaker,

the the

who who

concerns concerns

what what

is is

on on

we we

willing willing

country country

of of

someone someone

forced forced

Member Member

of of

Ottawa Ottawa

people people

Accord Accord

it it

where where

stand stand

14-th. 14-th.

Meech Meech

XLI XLI

when when

test test

have have

last last

.have .have

for' for'

the the

The The

has has

and and

are are

why why

the the

its its

Mr. Mr.

the the

all all

the the

of of

in in

of of

on on

as as

we we

to to

face, face,

No. No.

What What

We We

MR. MR.

that that

of of

society society

the the

SOME SOME

AN AN

d d

MS MS

MR. MR. Hear. Hear.

creating creating

Tel1 Tel1

that. that.

John's John's people. people.

comments comments

then then And And

Mulroney Mulroney rejecting rejecting

this this

Quebec, Quebec,

of of

pact pact

Federalism Federalism wo wo n o o n e i n n i o n e n o

r e e r Toronto Toronto

who who its its most

speaking speaking

simply simply

that that

the the

Ther·e Ther·e Accord Accord

Speaker, Speaker,

people people

the the

country country

Province

o o

i. i.

j j

HON. HON.

will will

DUFF: DUFF:

n n

e e c

all all

WAL?H: WAL?H:

17 17

WALSH: WALSH:

g g

hon. hon.

Quebec's Quebec's

the the

province province

Accord Accord

dOE!S dOE!S

about about

HON. HON.

that that

them them

maybe maybe

• •

cJ.ause cJ.ause

t t

Five Five

knowledgeable knowledgeable

hear! hear!

of of

is is

House, House,

is is

We We

rejE!Ct rejE!Ct

are are

support support

Q Q

of of

MEMBER

t t

East. East.

come come

that that

Star Star

1 1

who who

u u e

the the

h h

clause. clause.

s s

a a

not not

Member. Member.

other other

s s

there there

MEMBEfiS

e e

not not

that. that.

course, course,

the the

It It

do do

about about

no no

t: t:

women's women's

be be

like like

what what

is is

original original

Quebec. Quebec.

we we

muddled muddled

o v i n c e . n o o o n n o o n v c i . e h s i

forever

just just

document, document,

is is

fears! fears!

c c

is is

h h

to to

goes goes

of of

o n . . o n

not not

people people

: :

Not Not

of of

on1=:! on1=:!

bE!l:i

aspirati.ons aspirati.ons

u..li11 u..li11

is is

Prime Prime

humiliation. humiliation.

exactly exactly

I I

on on

no no

in in

them. them.

P P

would would

is is

trying trying

women's women's

problems problems

Quebec, Quebec,

r r

• •

: :

that-

th!i:~ th!i:~

am am

. .

th~

eve, eve,

the the

of of

is is

on on

rights? rights?

M M

:in :in

the the

. .

E!J E!J

The The

the the

no no

do do

E! E!

Lhi.s Lhi.s

gel: gel:

rE!formu1:i rE!formu1:i

critics critics

We We

. .

MinistE•r MinistE•r

rn rn

of of

E•ct E•ct

demands, demands,

They They

the the

b b to to

. .

thE! thE!

Speaker, Speaker,

this this

crJU.cs crJU.cs

e e

In In

· ·

body body

Province Province

one one

The The

the the

not. not.

to to

what what

'.l

Quebec. Quebec.

r r

all all

qu:i,~t qu:i,~t

rights rights

. .

Fears Fears Fact Fact

Critics Critics

but but

ltng ltng

eviscerate eviscerate

say

them them

that that

fact, fact,

pE!Ople pE!Ople

side side

y y

d:lst:inct d:lst:inct

do do

Speaker, Speaker,

· ·

do do ha ha

J.n J.n

in in

o o

only only

Acco1nd, Acco1nd,

: :

country country

of of

do do

r r

in in

r r

zal:.:ion zal:.:ion

t t

t.o t.o

1 1

E! E!

Sinian Sinian

that. that.

1 1

as as

that that

1\2 1\2

F1norn F1norn

~~ ~~

j j

they they

:hern :hern

one one

and and

St. St.

and and

thE! thE!

e e

a1nE! a1nE! The The

not not

Mr. Mr.

and and

his his

l::hE! l::hE!

l:hE! l:hE!

lhe lhe

1.v1:! 1.v1:!

am am

is is

i n n i

of of

oF oF of of

c c

in in

. .

a a

s s

a a t t Constitution rather than in the do. Only Brian Mulroney got mad preamble. There is only one with them for that. reason why that would be there. It is because this distinct Mr. Speaker. I also hope that tAJhen society clause, is not a mere the GST Bill arrives in the Senate recognition of the historical that the Senate will have the rights or historical facts dealing courage to take the exact sarne with Quebec, but rather a clause stand and hold it up as long as it that is to have a ln~:!alimpact on can as IAJe11.. M1n. Spc::~aker,tAlE! satAI the division of powers and the the same thing happen with the Canadian Charter Of Rights. free trade debate. And at that time I think thE• Prime:~Minist•:or of Ml". SpE!aker, QUE!bec will gain this country did a grave substantially new powers under disservice to all of us when he that distinct society clause, and stated that the Senate was a bunch those new powers will tilt the of nominated p1:>ople highjacktng scales in Quebec's favour. We the most fundamental right of thE! have heard. Mr. Speaker. in this House of Commons. The Pr·ime House about the Senate. And I Minister admitted it was have listened to Members on the constitutionally okay but opposite side of thE• House refer undE!HlOcratic. Min. SpE!akE!r. that to the fact that we should abolish is like saying 1nixed emotions. the Senate. tAJatching someone go ovE•In a cl:iff in your new Cadillac and not. sur•:> Mr. Speaker, we have discussed in how to react. It makes no sense. the last number of days and a number of my colleagues have Mr. Speaker. thE~Prirne Mird.st:E!In of covered the facts very well, and this country has sent a message we have wondered- aloud whether or loud and clear to all Canadians. not they truly understand the It tJ..J:ill either be exactly tAJhat h1:> powers of the Senate. And, Mr. wants. tt tAJil.l be exactly what he Speaker, for their sake once again preSE!nts or it IAiill b1:! nothing at I will remind them that the Senate all. Ml". Speake!". th<:lt: i_s not_ l:.he has the identical powers as the leadership that this country elE!CtE!d House of Cornrnons excE•pt - requirE•s at this ti.rn~'!. 1-t now listen closely all of you that requires someone who is tJ..Ii1l:ing to are either there or in your common speak not for onE· par·t of Canada, room - one; money bills must but for all Canadians, and he is originate in the Commons, not doing that. If our Prime second; it can only hold up a Minister could 'only find a t~Jayto constitutional amendment for 180 get himself back on the hightnoad, days and it cannot veto them. t:his country would be:~"Ln much better shape tha~ it is today. Mr. Speaker. I was proud on behalf And it. is his kinds of cotlli'nE!nts of other Newfoundlanders and other that are causing us our problems. Canadians in the labour force and people who are in dE:~privedarE!aS Mr. SpE!aker, the proponents of that the Senate was willing to Meech Lake are a1so the sam•:! stand and hold up Bill C-21 as people who rE•luctantly. as I have long as it did. No one in the heard my colleagues on the labour force spoke out against the opposite side, th~:!yare cllso thE!

Senate be cau s .:~it was carrying out apologists for Meech Lake . fhey exactly what it was permitted to look at us and they say you cannot

L25 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No . 1 '7 1~25

will will

We We

for for

line line the the

MR. MR.

What What

being being

John's John's L26 L26

her her

Meech Meech

Speaker, Speaker,

MR. MR.

of of

AN AN

example, example,

they they

weJ.l weJ.l

last last

Almost Almost

How How

or or

The The we we

stupid stupid

a a

Speaker, Speaker,

what what

right, right,

Mr. Mr.

someone someone

salesmen. salesmen.

wiJ.l wiJ.l

proponents proponents

sense. sense.

put put

we we

that that

of of

Speaker, Speaker,

irreparable irreparable

expect expect

Flawed, Flawed,

expect expect

cannot cannot

know know

vehicle vehicle

women. women.

HON. HON.

after. after.

are are

WALSH

WALSH: WALSH:

St. St.

TOBIN: TOBIN:

ours. ours.

lack lack

thoughts thoughts

know know

can can

that that

many many

certainly certainly

changes changes

time? time?

Speaker. Speaker.

we we

not not

did did

as as

towed towed

does does ups ups

Meech Meech

East East

enough

logic. logic.

have have

either either

MEMBER

that that

John's John's

who who

afraid afraid

are are did did

not not

but but

April April

: :

well well

perfection. perfection.

fix fix to to

· ·

the the

that that

of of

not not

forward forward

the the

and and

will will

votes votes

without without

I I

and and

The The

watching watching

think think

off off

Mr. Mr.

after. after.

is is

worry. worry.

let let

the the

damage damage

pt::'rfE!Ction. pt::'rfE!Ction.

. .

funding. funding.

constitutional constitutional

That That

are are

critics critics

in in

: :

address address

not not

it it

4, 4,

Lake Lake

as as

concerns concerns

before before

makes makes

see see

do do

they they

East East

willing willing

trust trust

to to

same same

the the

to to

us us

SpE!aker, SpE!aker,

be be

did did

1990 1990

of of

MN!Ch MN!Ch

are are

Member Member

on on

anyone anyone

up up

her her

brakes brakes

jail jail

ask ask

you you

pass pass

to to

apologists apologists

(Ms (Ms

address, address,

that? that?

say say

serious serious

is is

logic. logic.

know know

sounds sounds

absolutely absolutely

irreversible. irreversible.

that, that,

of of

her her

you you

not not

th•

the the

but but

later. later.

down down

will will

to to

this this

the the

Well, Well,

that that

Duff) Duff)

because because

:> :>

of of

it it

Lake, Lake,

Meech Meech

elSE! elSE!

We We

we we

seriously seriously

for for

Vo Vo

and and

used used

concerns concerns

sell sell

accident accident

we we

get get

that that

friends friends

now now

but but

in in

1 1

Member Member

women. women.

be be

mE•reJ.y mE•reJ.y

reform reform

nation nation

It It

agree agree

what what

XLI XLI

have have

like like

say, say,

that that

LakE! LakE!

the the

Mr. Mr.

For For

all all

who who

the the

Mr. Mr. you you

the the

car car and and

and and

Mr. Mr.

we we

of of

is is

we we

is is

no no

. .

No. No.

Government Government

Constitution

Meech Meech

something something

hard hard Government Government

separatist separatist Government Government

hard. hard. Quebec Quebec

that that

suppose suppose 1982 1982

the the

proponents proponents

The The

people people

of of

part part

Mr. Mr.

forward forward

nation nation Provincial Provincial

fact fact myths myths

that that

biggest biggest

Mr. Mr.

deal deal

were were

Prime Prime

Speaker, Speaker,

simple. simple.

weJ.l. weJ.l.

addressed. addressed. who who

addressed. addressed.

and and

are are just just

Mr. Mr.

Native Native arrived. arrived.

the the

out. out.

not not

her her

not not

concerns concerns

Lake Lake

Quebec Quebec

17 17

correct. correct.

stateTTJE!nt, stateTTJE!nt,

Speaker, Speaker,

pE!Ople

helped helped

Constitu·tion Constitu·tion

yet yet

Speaker, Speaker,

being being thoughts thoughts

we we

tAJith tAJith

Accord. Accord.

of of

that that

SpeakE!r. SpeakE!r.

not not

Minister Minister

point point

Lake Lake

to to

the the

here here

Quebec Quebec

And And

their their

as as

of of

and and

groups groups

their their

These These

have have

publicly, publicly,

myths myths

this this

by by

are are

hE!ard hE!ard

The The

that that

for for

people people

corr·ect. corr·ect.

are are

bring bring

well well

the the

QuebE!C QuebE!C

Mr. Mr.

. .

Government Government

seem seem

speaks speaks

alone, alone,

of of

Meech Meech

wiJ.l wiJ.l

left left

that, that,

. .

to to

The The

Government, Government,

build build

and and

none none

our our

in in

denied denied

They They

nation. nation.

still still

rights

I I

are are

These These

also also

Mr. Mr.

are are

wo wo

of of

first first

myl:hs myl:hs

have have

they they

was was

Canada Canada

that that

was was

Speaker, Speaker,

greet greet

needs needs

afraid afraid

as as

Mr. Mr.

her her

native native

rnE· rnE·

founding founding

think think

of of

Quebec Quebec

continue continue

time time

out out

our our

was was

. .

Mr. Mr.

apologists apologists

other other

in in

n n

this this

Lake Lake

on on for for

they they

l:hat l:hat

the the

Speaker, Speaker,

for for

also also

Ce1nada Ce1nada

For·gel:. For·gel:.

a a

Their Their

native native

. .

are are

Speai

speak speak

have have

thE! thE!

as as

had had

lead lead

onE• onE•

in in

Speaker, Speaker,

myth myth

country. country.

and and

part part

J.eft: J.eft:

1982. 1982.

the the

us us

Our Our to to

Speaker, Speaker,

we we

tried tried

groups, groups,

The The

the the

people people

the the

well

countr·y countr·y

Canada Canada

the the

must must

speak speak

into into

people people

Lhe Lhe

are are

been been

families. families.

than than

now now

not not

been been

adrn:it, adrn:it,

to to

when when

conceJ~ns conceJ~ns

of of

Lhal:. Lhal:.

that that

have have

to to

and and

lack lack

on on

of of

FE!deral FE!deral

is is

to to

groups. groups.

out out

by by

Qu•:>bec Qu•:>bec

Quebec Quebec

people people

. .

people people

these these

ME!!:•ch ME!!:•ch

be be

R26 R26

tell tell

~his ~his

very very

says says

very very

lE•ft lE•ft

they they

what what

rhal rhal

for for

the the

l:he l:he

put put

the the Mr. Mr.

who who

the the

thE! thE!

the the

rhe rhe

:is :is

in in

at at

of of

we we

to to

be be

as as

is is

of of

a a

I I a a ...,._

us . and that was his t.hird major concern, Mr. Speaker. One of the amazing things about the 1982 pact that was trir:'d to be AN HON. MEMBER: created: Mr. Levesque at that. time How many votes did you get. last was able to complain about only night. three things in the 1982 package. Three major complaints. His first MR. WALSH: complain was that it included Not quite enough, for the hon . mobility rights. Something that Members. is indigenous I guess to any nation. Any nation that is frE!e Mr. Speaker, there is some will allow its people to go fl~om references and heck1tng to thE! one province to another or from fact that I may not haVE! l~eceived one state to another in ordE!r to enough votes in a particular find work, or in order to J.ive. campaign I was involved in last That was one of Mr. Levesque's night. Mr. Speaker, I would Lik'?. main complaints. That lAJas one of to inform every onE· that l:.h~:! the items that helped keep Quebec residents of rny own District voted out of the 1982 agreement. His for me overwhelmingly but, second objection, and this was unfortunately, I tAJas rej ec l:~:!dby probably the most unbelievable one some people from other Districts. of all, was that it guaranteed minority language rights to Now, Mr. SpeakE!r, cornJng back to anglophones. It guaranteed the more serious matter' at hand, minority language rights to and I welcome the anglophones Those in his own light-heartedness from the other Province, some of whom may have side. Corning back, Mr' .· SpeakE!ln -· even voted For him, and he objected to that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible) . Mr. Speaker, what has come from· that, of coursE!, is one of the MR. WALSH: major problems that we have in Mr. Speaker, I can apprec:ial:.n some ter'ms of the fE!ar and in tE!rrns of commE!nts about M1~. Chretien o1~ the problems that have been someone else from th1::! other side, created by the PrE!mier _of Quebec but I am amazed at some of the and by the Prime Minister of this people it is corning from. country, and that of course, Mr. S pea k e r , wa s B i 11 1 7 8 . The B i 11 Mr. Speaker, the QUE!bec peoplt' arE• that said no more anglophone or not outcasts in this country at English signs to be placed in the this point in time. Province. That, Mr. Speaker, polarized the nation behind the MR. SPEAKER: fact there may be more in Meech Order, please! Lake than we are fully aware of. I am having dif f iculty hearing the There was a third objection as speaker. well, Mr. SpE•aker, and the third objection was it did not allow MR. WALSH: Quebec compensation when it opted Mr. Speaker, thE!Y are not outcasts out of any amendment transferring in this country. In 1982 they power to the Federal Government received right.s over thE!·.ir natuJ~aJ.

1.27 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R27

wrong wrong

let let

Speaker, Speaker,

said said fair fair

we we

Canada. Canada.

L28 L28

negotiatE!. negotiatE!.

nothing nothing

Fear, Fear,

avoid avoid

by by

the the

24th. 24th.

have have

Prime Prime created created

said said

Canadians Canadians

reacting reacting

live live

approach approach

approach. approach.

Canadians Canadians

As As

have have

Mr. Mr.

have have enough enough

Speaker, Speaker,

and and

nothing. nothing.

believes, believes,

asking asking

Accord Accord inequities inequities

For For

Canada Canada

and and

atone atone

and and

sat sat

at at

that that

items items

guarantee guarantee

the the resources, resources,

payments. payments.

that that

will will

that that

my my

not not

in in

the the

Speaker, Speaker,

fearmongering fearmongering

1982 1982

in in

us us

to, to,

and and

that that

to to

within within

a a

province

him him

a a

so so

the the

Minister Minister

with with

but but

for for

that that

in in

that that

But, But,

wrong wrong

cannot cannot

the the

being being

Separatist Separatist

Canada Canada

by by

avoid avoid

colJ.eague colJ.eague

not not

April. April.

Mr. Mr.

us us

QuebE!C QuebE!C

honest honest

point point

never never

well well

He He

GovernmE!nt GovernmE!nt

that that

agreement

word word

to to

Mr. Mr.

fact fact

and and

is is

it it

the the we we

never never

on on

including including

the the

We We

words words

of of

There There

negotiation, negotiation,

province province

the the

Speaker. Speaker.

have have

Mr. Mr.

said said

Mr. Mr.

his his

. .

to to

with with

hones7. hones7.

they they

tAli tAli

fear. fear.

what what

the the

4, 4,

of of

he he

is is

Opposition Opposition

and and

the the

that that

in in

be be

on on

will will

must must

is is

a a

with with

there there

must must

people people

th th

negotiate negotiate

sins, sins,

behalf behalf

And And

Quebec Quebec

Spea-ker. Spea-ker.

1990 1990

own own

Bourassa Bourassa

a a

lc?. lc?.

of of

do. do.

last last

possibilities possibilities

said said

simply simply

Government Government

our our

are are

. .

taJ.k, taJ.k,

June June

for for

Government Government

just just asked asked

in in

that that

respect respect

other other

Canada Canada

t t

Meech Meech

Speaker, Speaker,

people people

the the

John John

at at

received received

through through

We We

province, province,

reject reject

The The

be be

reject reject

action, action,

us us

failures failures

those those

equalization equalization

is is

history history

recE!ived recE!ived

many, many,

night, night,

this this

LetAJisporte LetAJisporte

Government Government

that that

24th, 24th,

And, And,

not not

but but

people people

is is

peopJ.e peopJ.e

there there

of of

today today

Vol. Vol.

not not

here here

have have

Kennedy, Kennedy,

fear fear

sad sad

day, day,

we we

all all

Lake Lake

out out

on on

nothing nothing

believe believe

to to

as as

being being

often often

truly truly

time, time,

XLI XLI

wiJ.l wiJ.l

June June

that that

this this

that that

this this

that that

lead lead

many many

Fair Fair

part part

Mr. Mr.

and and

the the

and and

all all

Mr. Mr.

was was

the the

of of

is is

of of

we we

hE! hE!

we we

l:o l:o

of of

to to

as as

or or

is is

of of

in in

to to

a a

SpE!aker, SpE!aker,

and and Mr

were were

one one

From From

Mr. Mr.

here, here,

Canada Canada

other other

exists, exists,

think think

their their

even even

Meech Meech

instead instead

have have

the the and and

forward. forward.

Speaker. Speaker.

is is

the the

country. country.

all, all, understand understand

a a

willing willing

will will truly truly

Mr. Mr.

playing playing Speaker, Speaker,

have have

great great

Minister Minister

of of

wi11ing wi11ing

move move exist. exist.

wiJ.ling wiJ.ling

Conference. Conference.

initiative, initiative, to to

is is

Minister Minister

this this

closed closed

s s

. .

level level

. .

fair fair

not not

given given

17 17

in in

help help

Speaker, Speaker,

needs needs

his his

further

Speaker, Speaker,

time time

do do

all all

ME!E!Ch ME!E!Ch

somE! somE!

Speaker, Speaker,

back back

once once

come come

from from

country country

concerns concerns

a a

day day

the the

at at

to to

understand, understand,

country country

Lake Lake

an an

just just

being being

only only

playing playing

to to

and and

IAJho IAJho

of of

to to

Field. Field.

stand stand

session, session,

to to

I I

lady lady

it it

but but

day. day.

to to

solve solve

of of

the the

We We

of of

to to

700 700

And And

to to

and and

Canadians. Canadians.

in in

sorne sorne

and and

forward forward

call call

open open

come come

. .

Premier Premier

br'ing br'ing

call call

Lake Lake

clearing clearing

just just

is is

that. that.

do do

take take

refE!rS refE!rS

all all

I I

when when

begin begin

havc;o havc;o

the the

muddies muddies

I I

number number

this this the the

Accord Accord

together together

all all

done done

letters letters

about about

I I

that, that,

for for

our our

on on

in in

have have

put put

field field

of of

rny rny

impasses impasses

that. that.

suppose suppose

of of

a a

asked asked

Canadians Canadians

That That

session session

high high

in in

asked asked

upon upon

Fact Fact

you you

Accord, Accord,

to to

the the back back

First First

the the

behalf behalf

of of

but but

aJ.l, aJ.l,

prayer prayer

Monl:rte'al, Monl:rte'al,

country country to to

those those

at at

not not

ours ours

on on

history

and and

from from

Meech Meech

sorne sorne

1nefer1ned 1nefer1ned

ordE!r ordE!r

of of

Mr. Mr.

for for

come come

those those

where where

-1ook -1ook

road road

the the

is is

rE!CEdved rE!CEdved

us us

the the

is is

Pt"€:!trd.ers Pt"€:!trd.ers

J.eadership, J.eadership,

that that

him him

this this

whether whether

paper paper

people people

the the

And, And,

Minister's Minister's

grasp grasp

the the

qr·asp qr·asp

IAJhat IAJhat

take take

expressed expressed

to, to,

that that

or or

thE! thE! J.

excerpts excerpts

SpE!akE!r, SpE!akE!r,

must must

a a

of of

in in

IAJhat

to to

Lake, Lake,

back back

PlnerniE!r PlnerniE!r

waters. waters.

in in

that that

. .

putting putting

and and

as as

wab:1lns wab:1lns

we we

acr'oss acr'oss

to to

po:i,nt po:i,nt

there there

J.evel J.evel

Prime Prime

in in

R28 R28

E!rs. E!rs.

this this

what what

rnE'E•t. rnE'E•t.

this this

. .

this this

sakE· sakE·

Mr. Mr.

who who

thE! thE!

And And

and and

Mr. Mr.

i'lncl i'lncl

Mr. Mr.

can can

thE! thE!

now now

try try

the the

on on

:i.t :i.t

tAle tAle

to to

be be

me me

he he il il

of of

be be

I I a a Province and on behalf of 78 per that goal, there is no Canadian cent of Canadians who are having a that does not support that: goa1, probl~~mwith Meech Lake. A lady we all want to have that. Our from MontrE!aJ. says, 'I u..Jas vE~ry probJ.em, Mr. Speaker, is that 1.n impresSE!d, like so many others, by the directions we are currE!n l~.ly your tough and brilliant stand travelling, that cannot, or w:i.11 against the Accord. I hope, not happen. We have to take a thanks to you for standing up for strong and powerful stand. Canada, Pr'ime M.-i.nister Mulroney and Premier Bourassa will be As a Canadian, and as a bot"n guided to come to a better Canadian: some of my colleagu~~son understanding of the neE!dS of the other side, contrary to every province and not show popular belief, I lAJas bor'n a favori U.srn to one or two, but keep Canadian. In this Province my Canada strong.' Mr. Speaker, for roots are strong. My strugglE~has the sake of the House I will table been long and therE~forE!my agE! 'is these afterwards. showing but allow me to assure all han. co11eagues that on SE'PtE!rnbet" A second one, Mr. Speaker, and I 14-, 194-9 in Corner Brook I Ci.'llm! do not know if I should read this into this wor1d as a Canadian but because it might be more one whose roots arE! deep in this flattering than the PrE!rnier would Province. want at this time. Another one from Montreal says, 'once every I have beE!n lucky, Mr. Speaker, twenty-five years or so we see a unlike some other people u..Jho have leader emerge, ' and he goes on to had to go sornewhE:~rE:~EdSE! to find list some of the leaders such as employment because of the economic Kennedy and ChurchiJ.l, and he also conditions of this Province. · l says, 'I believe you will see have been lucky to have been able your narne in the Canadian history to make a choice. When offers books of the future because of u..Jere made to leave N1:>wfoundland I your positions today.' Another was J.u c ky and fortunate enough one, Mr. Speaker, from Ontario. that I d:i.d not have t:o. I l:.hank 'On NovEwtbE!r 10 I listE!ned to an the people I have bE!E•n associ.al.ed hour long radio phone·-in shou..J with over thP last l~.lAJE!nl:y01~ program originating in Toronto and twenty-two years of my work - life the question was, do you approve that I was lucky enough to make or disapprove of Mt". Well's stand that choiCE!, t.o bE! abJ.e to stay on Meech Lake? Of the forty or here. fifty calJ.ers only one disapproved and all others were strongly Mr. Speaker, to me being a supportive.' Those, Mr. SpeakE!r, Canadian is more than just being a are the kinds of -reactions, the resident of any one particuJ.ar kinds of speeches, and the kinds provinCE!. To mE:~being a Canadian of letters that are coming in to means that wherever I travel in th.::' Premier. this country, not onJ.y tAJ:i1l I be welcome, but I havE:~an opport.unity Mr. Speaker, let us go forward and to work with and reE! l comfot~tabJ.E! tr·y to cement once and for all a with the laws of this country. situation in this country that UnFortunately, not French allows Quebec to be a full and speaking, I haVE! trouble lAJ:iLh thE! equal partnE!r. ThE!re is no onE! in language in Quebec, needless to this Province who does not want say, but not to~.Jith the language and

L29 ApriJ. 4·, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 1~29

Mr. Mr.

left, left,

L30 L30 whether whether live, live,

stay. stay. Scottish, Scottish, we we next next

does does

Speaker

matter matter

place place

us us

us, us, Mr. Mr.

background, background,

important important

of of

Mr. Mr.

institutions institutions

this this be be

world. world.

c c o u n

just just

Speaker, Speaker,

lose lose

we we

that that

being being lifet-.ime lifet-.ime

period period

is is

It It are are

fact fact

is is

continental continental -.institutions -.institutions

Europe, Europe,

somewhere somewhere

to to

a a

that that country. country.

but but

the the

that that

Canadian Canadian

here. here.

who who

are are

this this

at at

probably probably

are are

Speaker, Speaker,

try try

Speaker, Speaker,

is is

all all

enjoy enjoy

with with

is is

Signal Signal

fact fact

speaker, speaker,

Speaker, Speaker,

that that

I I

as as

I I

glad glad

not not

but but

them them

part part

but but

for for

times times

. .

of of

do do

proud proud

where where

belieVE! belieVE!

important important

at at

arn arn

of of

a n n a d

or or

all all

April April

country country

when when

of of

also also

one one

we we

my my

I I

matter. matter.

not not

my my

that that

of of

immigrants immigrants

Asian, Asian,

to to

plnoud plnoud

us us

else, else,

It It

any any

We We

over over

times times

an an

Hill Hill

you you

the the

resources resources

abo abo

things things

whE!n whE!n

tAJiJ.l tAJiJ.l

one one

wi wi

equal. equal.

I I

is is

in in

children children

of. of.

United United

you you

or or

me me

who who

that that

I I

we we

own own

speak speak

th1::. th1::.

the the

11 11

on on

u u t

have have

, ,

English, English,

other other

does does

that that

have have

made made

have have

they they

do do

this this

is is

of of

Canada Canada

oF oF

two two

1990 1990

is is

fruits fruits

are are

to to

of, of,

sickness sickness

you you

could could

just just

MCP, MCP,

came came

s s

t.vish t.vish

like like

either either

be be

inadequacies inadequacies

place place

June June

sun sun

kind kind

ti ti

European. European.

the the

not not

This This

thE! thE!

me me

a a

also also

French. French.

the the

i n n i

11 11

years. years.

t.his t.his

up up

It It

about about

proud proud

part part

arE! arE!

speak speak

country country

built built

will will

States, States,

~~ ~~

not not

to to

many, many,

Few Few

not not

as as

a a

Mr. Mr.

advise advise

and and

rises rises

will will

other other

have have

from, from,

of of

that, that,

intend intend

of of

an an

fact fact

be be

for for

a c c i a

best. best.

24 24

does does

something something

Vol Vol

of of

country, country,

sick sick

well. well.

Speaker, Speaker,

come come

was was

in in

minutes minutes

of of

over over

country country

be be

all all

matter matter

Irish, Irish,

up up by by

French French

there, there,

living living

French French

us us

t'i

had had

still still

those those

It It

Being Being

XLI XLI

most most

that that

this this

over over

this this

able able

many many

that that

this this

. .

the the

thE! thE!

not not

Mr. Mr.

and and

you you

thE• thE•

the the

. .

to to

of of

to to

It It

e e n

is is

in in

It It

in in

a a

. .

Mr. Mr.

MR. MR.

Hear, Hear, MR. MR.

The The

SOME SOME

Hear, Hear,

will will

Thank Thank

and and

Port. Port.

still still

fear. fear.

bE! bE!

here, here,

that that

sun sun

country. country. other other

remember, remember,

stat.E!ITIE!nt, stat.E!ITIE!nt,

to to

not not

Ontario Ontario

promote promote

us us

I I

I I a a

the the

Speaker, Speaker,

are are

Territories Territories

and, and,

Speaker, Speaker,

of of

all all

this this

Province, Province,

House House

go go

speak speak

time time

ME ME

. .

part part

lJ..Jill lJ..Jill

. .

opened opened

not not

HODDER

residents residents

SPEAKER: SPEAKER: 17 17

make make into into

still. still.

Speaker, Speaker,

hE!re hE!re

of of

Canadians, Canadians,

lE!ave lE!ave

hon. hon.

just just

HON. HON.

l-ION. l-ION.

impression impression

rises rises

Mr. Mr.

be be

but, but,

Speaker, Speaker,

hear! hear!

you, you,

be be

we, we,

parts parts

for for

will will

of of

live live

end end

us. us.

with with

country, country,

fear. fear.

the the

and and

strong strong

overtime overtime

Speaker, Speaker,

MEM...§

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

rash rash

be be this this

: :

in in

this this

the the

with, with,

this this

as as

in in

and and

as as

a a

Canada Canada

thE! thE!

with with

on on

over over

in in

This This

united

. .

of of

. .

I I

beginning beginning

Canadians, Canadians,

thought thought

this this

Quebec, Quebec,

I I

cross cross

of of

in in

this this

_R~

Member Member

Speakt~r, Speakt~r,

Speaker

June June

country. country.

is is

decisions decisions

this this

jus jus

fear fear

countlny countlny

a11 a11

sakE! sakE!

sajd sajd

and and

in in

let let

the the

included

the the

Let Let

Mr. Mr.

: :

every every

Canada Canada

Signal Signal

British British

I I

or or

our' our'

. .

country, country,

. .

wi11 wi11

the the

of of

anyone'

still still

thou~~ht: thou~~ht:

am am

24th 24th

tAJant tAJant

worl.d, worl.d,

and and

sam1:> sam1:>

in in

of of

Speaker: Speaker:

us us

countTy countTy

in in

this this

that that

. .

to to

all. all.

for for

Canada. Canada.

us, us,

of of

provinc

I I

proud proud

be1ongs be1ongs

rny rny

tAJi]l tAJi]l

f't:Uing f't:Uing

let let

. .

is is

not not

stand stand

Hill, Hill,

lE:'aV(

stah~rnent stah~rnent

lJ..JhE!ll lJ..JhE!ll

Northwest Northwest

to to

based based

be be

Columbia Columbia

Por

the the

tAJe tAJe

s s

j] j]

in in

opentng opentng

made made

lE· lE·

but but

entire entire

I., I.,

say say

1 1

proud proud

sti11 sti11

to to

mind, mind,

l.eavE• l.eavE•

t. t.

s s

. .

! !

1no 1no

w:i.Jl w:i.Jl

e e

haVE! haVE!

. .

l.hii> l.hii>

thE! thE!

sun sun

Mr. Mr.

M1~. M1~.

not not LE!t LE!t

and and

the the

au au

it it

be be

us us

on on

us us

jn jn

We We

in in

of of

be be

rny rny

up up

to to a a very few words on this resolution, Yes, I have a ticket in rny pocket: more to show my support for the and I leave shortly. Meech Lake Accord. Most things have been said, I think. I doubt SOME HON. MEMBERS: very much that there wi.11 be Oh, oh! agreement on this issue on both sides of this House but I ·truly MR. HODDER: believe, Mr. Speaker, that history But I am not going to FJ.or'i.da, to lAiill prove we, over here, are start lAiith. Mernbelns on that s·.ide right. I truly believe that of the House should know that. in Members on that side of the House our deliberations L\Je suspE!Cb'!d, are walking out of step with the that. is all I arn saying. that the rest of Canada. Premier might go on through. We did not want to, in thE! sensE~that Many of the speech~::1sI have heard many Members on that side and this in this House over the past week, side had made arr'angE•rllE!nts. But I really cannot take as being none of us suspected the Premier always sincere and from the would bring in closure at t:his heart. I did sit in this House early date. About a week ago, when many Members who spoke, spokE! when we were deliberating this another way on this particular particular issue, no one ···· no onE• issue. I cannot accuse all on our side suspE!Cted that Members of flip-flopping on this closure would be brought in, no issue, but I can accuse somE! one suspectE!d that Lhe Prernieln Members on that side of the House. would bring in closure this ~~alnly in the debate. We thought he may I do not know how many times bring in closure perhaps in Jun~~ closure has been inuoke·d in this sometime, or at the end of May, House since 194-9 but I would say, but nobody suspected that he u-Jould Mr. Speaker, that it has not been do this. invoked more than ten or fifteen times since Confederation. In rny DR. KITCHEN: recollection, . since 1975, I can (Inaudible). only recollect closure being brought :into the House on a couple MR. HODDER: of occasions and I arn surprised Mr. Speaker, I sat herE! and that the Premier, on an :issue listened to every On!~ of l~hE! which is so dear to his heart, debatE!S, and thE! Minister of would bring in closure after five Finance who very rarely ever days of debatE!. speaks, has the gali to hecl

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Mr. Speaker. we on l~hisside of Oh, oh! the House feel that pub]ic hearings should have l::llc!E:'I'l he1d AN HON. MEMBER: throughout the Province before (Inaudible) . this motion was rescinded. What we a1ne seeing now is c Jos u lnE!, that. MR. HODDER: the Government lAJi.1l use its brute Mr. Speaker, Members will laugh . for'ce to push Ud.s resolution

Ul April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 IDl

way way

Charter Charter

minority. minority.

There There

languagE! languagE!

1_32 1_32

meetings, meetings,

Mr. Mr.

Government Government out out

were were

association. association. was was

had had

1982 1982 vote vote

wherE ensuring ensuring

that that

1982, 1982,

be be

Newfoundlanders Newfoundlanders

they they

constitutional constitutional

everybody everybody

in in

many many

But, But,

we we

and and

referendum referendum

first first

Just Just

campaign. campaign. that that

history history

to to

this this

more more

resolution resolution

many many

of of

heard heard

resolution resolution

Province? Province?

process process

about. about.

as as

through through

Province Province

the the

met met

to to

talk talk

at at

left left

Speaker, Speaker,

! !

to to

the the

closure. closure.

Meech Meech

was was

rejectE!d rejectE!d

Accord Accord

to to

important important

one one

time, time,

oF oF

Mr. Mr.

times, times,

particular particular

this this

was was

I I

at at

after after

what what

consider consider

and and

Quebec. Quebec.

from from

in in

tell tell

specifically specifically

the the

was was

Apr·il Apr·il

shouJ.d shouJ.d

That That

of of

us us

that that

and and

rights rights

answer answer

one one

will will

Quebec Quebec

a a

Speaker, Speaker,

against against

only only

the the

of of

that that

of of

campaign, campaign,

I I

aftE!rwards. aftE!rwards.

through through

Lake Lake

remembers remembers

Rene Rene

a a

then then

is is

that that

little little remember remember

but but

it, it,

when when

people people

the the

you you

the the

think think

of of

House, House,

two two

the the

Quebec Quebec

the the

1·1as 1·1as

Levesque Levesque

united united

4-, 4-,

never never

patriation patriation

those those

to to

happening, happening,

one one

Mr. Mr.

be be

reform reform

and and

That That

I I

to to

in in

issue issue

resolution resolution

thE! thE!

out out

Levesque, Levesque,

particular particular

after after

a a

what what

was was

1990 1990

First First

I I

day day

years years

say say

people people

think think

been been

people people

pushing pushing

public public

thE! thE!

for for

reform reform

bE!fOrE! bE!fOrE!

the the

bit bit debate debate

heard heard

the the

1 1

have have

of of

Canadians, Canadians,

s s

which which

promis1?.S promis1?.S

·times ·times

Speaker, Speaker,

in in

was was

aimed aimed

gave gave

Canada. Canada.

would would

1 1

I I

now now

where where

s s

and and

needs needs

suvereignty suvereignty

and and

many many

PrE!mier PrE!mier

the the

I I

said said

Ministers

Why Why

Anglophone Anglophone

Quebec Quebec

know know

it it

referendum referendum

later, later,

about about

aimed aimed

the the

call, call,

had had

that that

Vol Vol

the the

practice practice

and and

of of

in in

remember remember

hearings hearings

of of

in in

we we

said said

I I

English English

perhaps perhaps

is is

on on

in in

is is

pursue pursue

QUE!bec QUE!bec

should should

of of

would would

where where

cold

t:lme. t:lme.

think think

about about

many, many,

light light

input input

XLI XLI

that that

held held

many many

they they

vote vote

this this

what what

this this

even even

have have

this this

any any

the the

And And

thE! thE!

the the

a11 a11

the the

in in

to to

at at

it it

if if

us us

1 1

. .

, ,

No. No.

Quebec Quebec

was was

you you

Speaker, Speaker,

Mr. Mr.

of of

and and

from from

Federally Federally Meech Meech lim

the the

Everybody Everybody

and and

think think

federal/provincial federal/provincial totaJ. totaJ.

would would

federal/provincial federal/provincial

They They

clause clause

right right

the the

reaction reaction

they they

anybody anybody

was was

Quebec Quebec

said said

But, But,

Mr. Mr.

aspirations aspirations

participation. participation.

was was

Ottawa, Ottawa,

had had

concerns concerns

ensuring ensuring

unitPd unitPd

constitutional constitutional

Forgotten. Forgotten.

So, So, that that

a a

the the

promise promise

For For

Quebec Quebec

17 17

ted ted

betrayal betrayal

limited limited

Speaker, Speaker,

Mr. Mr.

sovereignity sovereignity

Speaker, Speaker,

can can

GovE•rnrnent GovE•rnrnent

the the

been been

so so

humiliated, humiliated,

felt felt

they they

day, day,

Conservatives Conservatives

the the if if

Mr. Mr.

constitutional constitutional one one

Lake Lake

reversal reversal

up up

disagree disagree

because because

to to

Canada. Canada.

was was

werE! werE!

to to

far. far.

was was

on on

Charter Charter

Speaker, Speaker,

by by

if if

provincial provincial

QU~'bE!C QU~'bE!C

of of

see, see,

that that

of of

insulate insulate

bit bit

signed signed

until until

they they

Speaker, Speaker,

Liberal Liberal

referendum, referendum,

thE! thE!

left left

Accord

felt felt

that that

PiE'I''r~'! PiE'I''r~'!

invoked invoked

The The

to to

got got

the the

would would

the the

you you

if if

withdrew withdrew

a a

after after

two two

Quebec Quebec

furthE!r, furthE!r,

not not

of of

would would

Quebec Quebec

Quebec

Party Party

somewhat, somewhat,

No1AJ No1AJ

had had

of of

han. han.

out out

with with

QuebecE•Jns QuebecE•Jns

ProvinCE! ProvinCE!

in in

that that

of of

reform reform

sidE! sidE!

r•ejE!CtE!d r•ejE!CtE!d

PrimE! PrimE!

J.ook J.ook

the the

. .

association, association,

and and

what what

without without

the the

betrayed. betrayed.

yE!ars yE!ars

be be

bE!ral bE!ral

its its

Rights

Quebec Quebec

E1.liot E1.liot

I I

GovernJTll~nt GovernJTll~nt

been been

of of

rhey rhey

what what

1982 1982

hP hP

invo1ved invo1ved

the the

QuE•bE>cois, QuE•bE>cois,

Members Members

negotiations; negotiations;

time time

of of

what what

mE!t mE!t

after after

1.982 1.982

s s

do do

happened happened

at at

nationalists nationalists

negotiations negotiations

con

in in

Minister Minister

you you

the the

1egislation 1egislation

Canada. Canada.

you you

day, day,

needs needs

lato1n lato1n

aimed aimed

of of

remember, remember,

l:he l:he

Libe

boy boy

betrayed. betrayed.

. .

the the

thE! thE!

within within

was was

ho~;.J ho~;.J

provincE· provincE·

override override

erences, erences,

had had

Quebec

a a

and and

Accor·d, Accor·d,

fE!eling fE!eling

t t

had had

of of

I I

r1nucl~~au r1nucl~~au

col col

QuebE!C QuebE!C

s s

pursue pursue

IAJould IAJould

1982? 1982?

House House

which which

l.:h:i.nk l.:h:i.nk

1n2 1n2

als

votE! votE!

from from

have have

bc!en bc!en ense ense

d d

call call

that:

the the

Mr. Mr.

the the

not not

b?d b?d

the the

and and

was was

the the

thE! thE!

:in :in

it it

in in

It It

at at

in in

of of

. .

s s

a a

a a . . people in Quebec will react to particularly what is happE!ning in what we are doing here in this this House, what t,o..lill happen once House of Assembly today. the Accord is broken, once the Accord is not ratified? w·i11 Mr. Speaker, that is why I say Quebec dtsassociate itsE!lf as thE!Y that what we are embarking on here did in 1982? is a very serious matter. Mr. Speaker, it is there for us to I say that the break notJ..J would be see. We see what the reaction much deeper and much more divisive was. Quebec withdrew from and much more irreversible l:.han it federal/provincial negotiations, was in 1982. Mr. Speaker, she withdrew; she boycotted the intergovernmental affairs will be Constitutional conferences, and paralyzed, constitut.~l.onaltnefolnlTI she threw out the people who had stymied and we will be back to a betrayed her, the federal Liberals. situation where any Further reconciliation would become more Mr. Speaker, the Accord is not a remote, and I think that would free-standing constitutional lead to the break up of Canada. initiative, it is an effort to undo the damage that was done in The Premier said in this House 1982 and it tries to fulfill the that his proposals wouJ.d put b1nead promise of 1980. And this is what on the tables of Newfoundlandt~Jns. the Prime Minister of the time, I say thE! courSE! on which LI.JE· haVE! Pierre Trudeau, said: Quebecers embarked lAiill take bread fr·om us. will not be satisfied with crumbs I say that from t.uhat I have seE!n. from the table, because they want I spent some time in Ontario just a brand new constitution. Those a few weeks ago when the Sault were the brave words at another . controversy was on, when towns in time, ten years ago. Now, Mr. Ontario were voting to beconw Speaker, ten years later, we are unilingual, which was a . slap in about to do the same thing. They the face to Quebecers. Anybody voted to stay in Canada. We who follot.us the national sCE!n•:> promised them a say within wi11 unders Land that l·:.hts is thr:! Canada. Mr. Speaker, I do not game we arE! p1aying heine. As one:> think LI.Je can bre!ak a second of my col1eagues said the other commitment to the people of day, it. is a very high ga111e. rhe Quebec, and that is what the Meech PrE!rnier says it ~i.snot a gal'riE!. Lake Accord t.uas. That is why all Perhaps it is not a game, pE!rhc'tps the emotion about the Meech Lake that is an unfair way t.o phrase Accord today. It is the second it, but, Mr. Speaker, ther·e are commitment to the people of high stakes in what we do here Quebec. It has been signed and it today. has been held out as a symbol of reconciliation. I be1ieve that we on this s i.de arE! right, and I believe that we on Mr. Speaker, the d~::~miseof the this side will be shown to be

Accord will have catastrophic right. I beJ.ieve Membetns on t.hr~' consequences for the people of Governrnen t' s side of this Hous1~at Canada, thE! people of Quebec and this present timE!, some day wi.Ll the people of Newfoundland. hang their hc::,ads in shame. ~~dny thought the Quebec Government of Mr. Speaker, what tJ..Jill happen, and today, the Bourassa Government, it looks very bad now, would demand more. Few believed

L33 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R33

Members Members

mentioned mentioned

The The

resources, resources,

on on

1_3/j. 1_3/j.

and and

handle handle

are are

not not

already already

sore sore Mr. Mr.

again again

in in

account account

Canada. Canada.

Canada

Canadians Canadians

so so

thE! thE! the the

remind remind

interpretation interpretation

come come

will will

courts, courts,

the the

c c

In In there there

acknowledge acknowledge

forget, forget,

more more

companion companion

Speaker, Speaker, truth, truth,

of of

can can Quebec Quebec

of of

British British not not

of of

Fre!nch Fre!nch

Francophone Francophone

sovereignty sovereignty

province province

is is

they they

some some

harac harac

the the

all all

constitutional constitutional

law law

in in

other other

the the

already already

SupremE! SupremE!

presence presence

the the

from from

distinct, distinct,

Speaker, Speaker,

would would

our our

we we

people people

abJ.e abJ.e

. .

course course

be be

teri teri

likely likely

point point

and and

basis basis

s s

is is

the the

is is

hon. hon.

our our

culture culture

an an

'the 'the

l:here, l:here,

is is

opposite opposite

the the

Apr·il Apr·il

Quebec

in in

is is

common common

preamble preamble

which which

not not

distinct distinct

affected affected

outside outside

And And

s s

a a

thing thing

clause clause

anol:her anol:her

in in

that that

tic, tic,

Quebec Quebec

Accord Accord

an an

again, again,

take take

founding founding

obvious obvious

these these

to to

association. association.

on on

Civil Civil

J.ot J.ot

Gentlemen Gentlemen

the the

own own

of. of.

have have

Accord. Accord.

not not

Court Court

majority, majority,

interpreting interpreting

with with

that that

already already

of of

4, 4,

acknowledge acknowledge

Quebec Quebec

I I

and and

as as

what what

acknowledgement, acknowledgement,

s s

we we

has has

and and

and, and,

a a

as as

law. law.

that that

in in

handle handle

Supreme Supreme

fishery. fishery.

rests rests

the the

1990 1990

Quebec

do do

said said

facts. facts.

say say

English English

which which

says says

law. law.

distinct distinct

point point

are are

over over

what what

if if

has has

of of

fast fast

interpretation, interpretation,

little little

society society

national national

is is

these these

in in

TTIE!, TTIE!,

truth? truth?

ultimately ultimately

is? is?

not not

has has

sornE!tirnes sornE!tirnes

Mr. Mr.

same same

that that

peoples, peoples,

as as

Canada Canada

that that

we we

not not

If If

is is

Canada, Canada,

the the

fundamental fundamental

a a

. .

take take

the the

been been

Its Its

and and

recognizes recognizes

the the

that that

our our

track track

is is

Court. Court.

in in

not not

what what

Vol Vol

debatE!S, debatE!S,

But, But,

have have

part part

speaking speaking

as as

dominant dominant

the the

fail fail

Speaker, Speaker,

And And

that that

abl1':! abl1':!

such such

we we

as as

because because

six six

Nobody Nobody

Courts Courts

nature nature

Accord Accord

system system

It It

clause clause

over, over,

unity unity

there there

is is

when when

XLI XLI

wiJ.l wiJ.l

been been

into into

said said

only only

are are own own

was was

law law

the the

Mr. Mr.

how how

the the

one one

of of

to to

of of

to to

of of

WE! WE!

is is

to to

a a

No. No.

it it

if if

passionately passionately

have have

the the

that that

not not

Mr. Mr.

I I printed printed

But But people people

It It

the the

somE this this

wilJ.. wilJ..

found, found,

discussed discussed fisheries fisheries

Premier Premier

PrE!rnier PrE!rnier

could could

conferences conferences so so

Government. Government.

is is

the the idea idea

in in this this

western western

fishery fishery t t

aspects aspects

Ml" handled handled

Fisheries, Fisheries,

of of Federal Federal

people people

adrninistE!rE!d adrninistE!rE!d

the the

people people can can

see see

part part

limit. limit.

jurisdiction jurisdiction ever ever

h h

a a

have have

. .

t t

Ottawa, Ottawa,

is is

says says

going going

that, that,

17 17

thing thing

the the

least least

aware aware

fisheries fisheries

Prernier

Speaker, Speaker,

The The

things things

better better

that that

in in

about about

debal:.e debal:.e

of of

SpeakE!Y', SpeakE!Y',

lead lead

r e e r

nol: nol:

Province, Province,

So So

of of

not not

surprising surprising

who who

asked asked

I I

that that

f f

of of

it. it.

people people

of of

Government Government

this this

better. better.

of of

in in

Newfoundland Newfoundland

in in

1 1

the the

it, it,

think think

Mr. Mr.

from from

e e c

idea idea

I I

on on

NewfoundJ.and NewfoundJ.and

of of

until until

Evening Evening

to to

seen seen

thE!rE• thE!rE•

are are

gotten gotten

thE! thE!

the the

Manitoba, Manitoba,

than than

lAJho lAJho

annual annual

would would

t t

Canada, Canada,

handl1

think think

s s

that that

about about

I I

s s

reform reform

frorn frorn

Gulf Gulf

whole whole

I I

in in

reaJ. reaJ.

what what

tho tho

and and

in in

Spoaker, Spoaker,

over over

the the

that that

arn arn

of of

proposal proposal

of of

fishery fishery

Mars, Mars,

fishery fishery

you you

not not

think think

if if

it. it.

that that

I. I.

d d

do do

li:!rli:' li:!rli:'

a a

NewFoundland, NewFoundland,

ar·e ar·e

E• E•

:' :'

the the

and and

There There

be be

Newfoundland Newfoundland

t t

the the

are are

sur·prised sur·prised

reform. reform.

to to

I I

this this

the the

rE!gion, rE!gion,

other other

it it

e e r

aware, aware,

aspects aspects

debate debate

out. out.

Departmont Departmont

right right

resolution resolution

said said

TeJ.egrarn TeJ.egrarn

the the

constitutional constitutional

you you

not not

including including

he he rn rn

hel-d hel-d

I I

pE!OpJ.e pE!OpJ.e IAJas IAJas

am am

Constitution, Constitution,

and and

we we

agn•1;•s agn•1;•s

rne rne

they they

i i

and and

inclusion inclusion

says says

are are

would would

do do

Mcd

n n a

they they

being being

that that

ituat

cr'isis cr'isis

hav~

I I

and and

ar·u ar·u

arE• arE•

which which

t. t.

surprised surprised

tAJas tAJas

hav~:! hav~:!

200 200

Ud Ud

that that

a a

J.:i.ve J.:i.ve

i i

notAl

nland nland

in in

th:i.nk th:i.nk

not not

in in

have have

I I

· ·

o o n

you you

and and

Federal Federal

ome ome

Ol" Ol"

I I

of of

hould. hould.

in in

can can cJ.ausE:' cJ.ausE:'

people people

n~1 n~1

at-

not. not.

ch ch

w:i.th. w:i.th.

, ,

on on

whtch whtch

11E'~J1:0r 11E'~J1:0r

t'''r'ms t'''r'ms

being being

havo havo

R3 R3 said said

Fet>l Fet>l

Like Like

know know

many many

rn l:hat l:hat

tAJhy tAJhy

aro aro

was was

has has

.:.t .:.t

th1:

l:.he l:.he

any any

the the

and and

the the

nol nol

are are

you you

l:.he l:.he

i i

4 4

of of

no no

is is

in in

n n

of of

in in

be be

IAJe IAJe

be be

in in

by by

le• le•

cl cl

f f

· · a a talked to people hE!rE• in St. to speak. And if you can reaJ.ize John 1 s and in my district. And what a minority in a majority when you start talking about the si t.uation i.s, then, Mr. Speai

I should say the FrancophonE!S of Well, Mr. Speaker, if Quebec the Province, whom I represent, do l~O!avesCanada, there lAJi,1l. no 1·:. be not support the Premier 1 S stand, nine provinces, it will not be and they support the Meech Lake long before we wi1l find ourselves Accord. The few times the Premier out in the cold. And, Mr. has talked to them, he kept Speaker, look at the attitudes in talking about bilingualism. But the different provincE:'S. I do not they are something like the French agree with what Prime Minister in QUE!bec, they want to preserve Bourassa said about Ne~J.~oundland their language and culture here, the other day anymore than the and bilingualism does not help ME!rnbers on the other' side, but i.f that. Most of them are bilingual; you look at the at·.ti tude On tal"io they want to learn to read and has, it is not much different. they lAJant l:.heir children to learn Then you have the west which keeps

L.3S April 4. , 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R35

M M

Member· Member·

She She

That That

L36 L36

On On

MR. MR.

if if

NO·~-r- MS MS

resolution. resolution.

Mr. Mr. ·

MS MS ThE! ThE!

MR. MR. East East

The The

I I

SOME SOME speak? speak?

wasting wasting

Members Members

Hear, Hear,

who who

we we

prove prove they they

are are

until until

suppose suppose enough. enough. constitutional constitutional

they they

am am

rnean rnean

freeze freeze

the the

see see

consequences. consequences.

can can

t.his t.his

I I

saying, saying,

......

· ·

will will

. .

talk talk

a a

DUFF: DUFF:

S S

hon,

from from

SIMMS: SIMMS:

Speaker

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

han. han.

Your Your

can can

is is

that that

Speaker, Speaker,

is is

P P E

already already point point

problems problems

HON. HON.

are are

-h -h

has has

are are

Premier Premier

you. you.

them them

hear! hear!

out out

we we

ave ave

for for

read read

in in

J$..

have have

all all

--the --the

to to

rny rny

April April

let let

~ ~

bE!Cause bE!Cause

on on

down down

the the

talk talk

.. ..

wrong. wrong.

this this

~ ~

However, However,

are are

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

wrong wrong

step, step,

Honour Honour

of of

not not the the

: :

wrong. wrong.

a a

. .

we we

time time

not not

Fogo Fogo

of of

the the

But But

spoke spoke

Member Member

the the

westerner westerner

the the

Member Member

I I

order, order,

. .

blu1:1 blu1:1

I I

in in

··-·-

is is

4-, 4-,

east, east,

are are

is is

dark. dark.

here here

various various

arn arn

think think

and a11 a11 and

trying trying

step, step,

eastern eastern

lAJhen lAJhen

of of

experts, experts,

and and

1990 1990

(Mr. (Mr.

spoken spoken

But, But,

a a

the the

other other

Canada, Canada,

asking? asking?

in in

dOE!S dOE!S

I I

recogniZ1:;!d recogniZ1:;!d

in in

for for

just just

situation situation

for for

Mr. Mr.

Oh, Oh,

the the

on on

lAJill lAJill

the the

And And

history history

only only

the the

Mr. Mr.

S. S.

you you

I I

and and

to to

he he

St. St.

Speaker

the the

and and

side side

this this

whatevers, whatevers,

WE! WE!

fact fact

lAJondering lAJondering

have have

debate

everytime everytime

you you

Winsor). Winsor).

Vol Vol

on on

say say

face. face.

Speaker, Speaker,

convince convince

grievous grievous

want want

look look

I I

Premier Premier

do do

John John

I I

others others

which which

say say

XLI XLI

will will

most most

that that

will will

side side

that that

said said

that that

l:he l:he

the the

. .

not not

to to

1 1

am am

at at

s s

I I

would would

No. No.

What What

in in

everyone everyone

was was

only only

Justi.ce Justi.ce

only only

knew knew

run run

praises praises

last last

Premier Premier

proclaiming proclaiming the the Mr. Mr.

party party

about about

was was

certainly certainly

Lake

that that

PrE!rrtier PrE!rrtier

would would

PrE:'m:Ler PrE:'m:Ler

together together

proposal proposal

and and

to to

Opposition. Opposition. forever, forever,

thE! thE!

three three

Party, Party,

Mr. Mr. a a

Thank Thank

Premiers Premiers

MR. MR.

thE! thE!

pleasure pleasure

Premier Premier

Rideout, Rideout,

You You

Yes. Yes.

Humber Humber

change change

constitutionaJ. constitutionaJ.

17 17

WINSOR: WINSOR:

for for

did. did. SIMMS: SIMMS:

have have

Speaker, Speaker,

the the

elected. elected.

the the

wouJ.d wouJ.d

a a

Speaker, Speaker,

condition condition

NDP, NDP,

perhaps perhaps

reason reason

Meech Meech

be be

Minister Minister

motion motion

election election

you, you,

il:

parties, parties,

who who

change change

farce? farce? all all

. .

of of

would would

the the

E!lE!Ction E!lE!Ction

introduced introduced

in in

PrE!rrd.er PrE!rrd.er

to to

ran ran

of of

Federal Federal

in in

is is

that that

it. it.

East, East,

has has

and and

was was

Mr. Mr.

be be

the the

agreed agreed

campaigned campaigned

the the

and and

the the

speak, speak,

speak speak

Lake Lake

Leader Leader

all all

why why

cont1"ary cont1"ary

In In

the the

rather rather

put put

and and

this this

the the

was was

thE! thE!

it it

Speaker. Speaker.

change change

What What

one one

had had

I I

saying saying

Everyone Everyone

past past

the the

only only

Acco1nd, Acco1nd, and and

amended amended

ratified ratified

of of

said. said.

lAJould lAJould

1987, 1987,

thE! thE! political political

Leader Leader

wouJ.d wouJ.d

Parliament. Parliament.

the the

Accord, Accord,

in in

Province, Province,

noted noted

focus focus

gives gives Sam

that that

of of

amendment amendment

which which

fol"th fol"th

House House

most most

ever ever

is is

that: that:

LibE!ral LibE!ral

his his

thirty thirty

he he

singing singing

changed changed

Justice, Justice,

this this

one one

. .

the the

Minisl:.er Minisl:.er

Meech Meech

to to

ConSE!rvatiVE'' ConSE!rvatiVE''

be be

Meech Meech

most most

during during

that that

thou9hl: thou9hl:

ME!E!Ch ME!E!Ch

be be

said said

knOIAJS knOIAJS

of of

yesterday yesterday

amendmE!nt amendmE!nt

me me

lAJ\1aL lAJ\1aL

been been

He He

he he

defE!aled defE!aled

Party. Party.

of of

mociE!rate mociE!rate

rat:Hied rat:Hied

by by

House House

and and

hE!, hE!,

by by

in in

years. years.

stripes stripes

j_f j_f

unique unique

Canada Canada

Party, Party,

lJJould lJJould

if if

Meech Meech

Fully Fully

Lake. Lake.

great great

Lake, Lake,

R36 R36

that that

LakE! LakE!

that that

Uw Uw

lAJa~; lAJa~;

his his

the the

l:.he l:.he

the the

l:.hE! l:.hE!

put put

Mr. Mr.

All All

ten ten

the the

as as

of of

hE! hE!

in in

he he on on SOME HON. MEMBERS: was in place, but on his tongue . Hear, hear! MR. EFFORD: MR. WINSOR: Hw about the next t ime ~ou come I think the Minister of Justice and ask for - had a crack at it in 1982. I think he even ran for President of MR. WINSOR: the Party at one ttme, and now he You will take care of it. has the audacity to come in this House and say the reason he ran The Premier feels sotnehow, and hE! was becauSE! of his strong bE!lief has convinced his pE•opJ.E• LJ.r:i.th him, in Meech Lake. What hypocrisy! that Senate reform will be the ThE!n, yestE!rday in this House, the be-· -al1, thE! E!nd---a11, it is going

Minister of Finance did the t. o b lo! t h e p a n a c e a l~h a l:_ t~li11 c u r e completely unspeakable•, he told all the il1s of this count1ny. HE• the people the real reason why the told them that; he has convinced Premier and this Party opposite them. oppose Meech Lake -- the real reason why the Premier and the MR. NOEL : Party oppose Meech Lake. It We have said otherwise . Do not slipped out of the bag. In the make things up. heat of debate, they like to say, it slipped out of the bag. MR. WINSOR : You havE· said othE!rwj se. He has I can remember on television some convinced them l~haL the Senate is time ago, when the Premier made going to bE! the one thi.ng, if LJ.Je his famous speech in OttaLJ.Ja, when do not have Senate reform tAlE! 1~d.ll he took on the Prime Mirdster and have regional econom i c di.sparity won the admiration of all forever , it_ tAli11 ens h r· in e i ·t, Newfoundland because he was entrench it. I rernE!rnber back in bucking the federal system, the 1967, LJ.Jhen anothE!r Liberal burst little guy taking on the big guy, into this ProvinCE!, and onE· oF Uw the man who t;Jas sitting 1night next:. big platfor·rns in his l':!le?.ction, it:. to the Premier, just one seat too, actua11y, was a jus t soc:iE•ty back, was none other than l~he and l~he 1?l'.imination of l"t::•qional Minister of FinancE!. The Pre!Tflier economic di.sparity. I LJ.Jonder who said yesterday in trying to that LJ.Jas? Does anybody r!O'ITH)ITtbE!r? chastise him and, I think, take a Pierre El1iott Trudeau, his mentor. little bit of pressure off, the Minister of Finance is a great AN HON. MEMBER: finance man but he is a poor The last good Prime Minister in constitutional advisor. According this country. -to the las l:. two Budgets, and his defence of thE!ITl, the Minister is MR. WINSOR : not a great Finance Minister fhe last good Prirne Minister in either. this country, was he? I wondE•r if it. is a coincid~-:.ncet_hat. hE! MR. FLIGHT: resurfaced again with his book Oh, he is. whilE! the debate on Meech Lake is in p1ace and thE! Prerrd.er just qot MR. WINSOR : elected? I wonder if there is any According to the questions he connection between the two? answered today, the old Krazy Glue

L37 Apri1 4, 1990 Vo1 XLI No. l 7 R37

MR. MR.

Who Who

MR. MR.

should should

MR. MR.

national national

You, You,

Why Why programs, programs, L38 L38

not not

Federal Federal

knot.us knot.us Province. Province.

already already

the the

it it

cost-shared cost-shared Quebec, Quebec,

status. status.

In In

Premier Premier

guarantees guarantees bilingual bilingual recognition recognition

AN AN

the the

elec elec

on on

majority majority

interfer interfer

maintains maintains

separate separate

worried worried

FedE!ral FedE!ral

Fol" Fol"

powers powers legislation legislation

Mr. Mr. else else

only only

special special

he he

the the

Province Province

that that

He He

clause clause

HON

tE!rms tE!rms

wrote wrote

WINSOI~: WINSOI~:

GRIMES: GRIMES:

WINSOR

NTA. NTA.

to to

calls calls

tor·al tor·al

in in

right right

example, example,

Premier Premier

is is

do do

says says

th~lng, th~lng,

when when

the the

in in

Speaker, Speaker,

. .

fuJ.l fuJ.l

have have

would would

say say

thE! thE!

MEMBER: MEMBER:

there? there? as as

are are

they they

Government. Government.

about about

says says

Apl"i.l Apl"i.l

legislative legislative

already already

program, program,

of of

schools schools

the the that that

say say

in in

Federal Federal

: :

province, province,

and and

he he

programs, programs,

to to

constitutional constitutional

of of

it it

you you

ridings. ridings.

The The

the the

lAJel1 lAJel1

programs. programs.

for for

of of

best best

a a

though, though,

that that

this this and and

taken taken

fedE!raJ. fedE!raJ.

:in :in

our our

need need

opt out out opt

we we

that that

enshrine enshrine

country, country,

4, 4,

the the

says, says,

right right

stuff stuff

that that

pertains pertains

NE!W NE!W

were were

Pr1:~mier Pr1:~mier

Ontario, Ontario,

people people

a a

the the

distinct distinct

the the

that that

English English

intE!rE!Sts intE!rE!Sts

1990 1990

in in

should should

he he

Gover·nment Gover·nment

distinct distinct

school school

thE•re, thE•re,

even even

gl"aup gl"aup

more more

away away

Brunswick Brunswick

no no

and and

belief. belief.

is is

for for

to to

progr·ams. progr·ams.

pl"Ol:ection pl"Ol:ection

the the

Newfoundland, Newfoundland,

President President

It It

is is

rights. rights.

Quebec. Quebec.

Quebec Quebec

things things

Premier Premier

of of

cost-shared cost-shared

that that

legislative legislative

forever forever

except except

fo11olAJ fo11olAJ

to to

so so

you? you?

knotAJS knotAJS

if if

also also

if if

in in

of of

from from

concerned concerned

not not

Vo1 Vo1

Province Province

nati.onal nati.onal

language language

systems. systems.

experts, experts,

on. on.

special special

Quebec. Quebec.

society society

of of

society society

no no

it it

people people

it it

might might

as as

XU XU

J.ikE! J.ikE!

have have

goes goes

this this

and and

the the

thE! thE!

the the

The The

for for

one one

has has

The The

is is

of of

So So

is is

of of

in in

is is

a a

No. No.

What? What?

and and

SOME SOME

to to

The The

MR. MR. waterfront waterfront

pelts pelts

No, No,

viable viable

Do Do

are are

concerns concerns

Fogo. Fogo.

Lake? Lake?

From From

Meech Meech

Newfound1anders Newfound1anders

And And

intE!rest intE!rest I I

The The

f:iv~::~ f:iv~::~

with with

poli

the the

face face

What What

House, House,

ever ever

years, years,

today, today,

history history d~~flect d~~flect

to to

significant significant

it it

dete!rrent dete!rrent

left left

Report, Report,

ACOA. ACOA.

Province, Province,

. .

visitE!d visitE!d

is is

nine nine

. you you

be be f:ifty f:ifty

WINSOR: WINSOR:

17 17

WINSOR: WINSOR:

NOEL: NOEL:

you you

EFFORD: EFFORD:

t:ical t:ical

price price

not not

HON

Port Port

last last

you you

most most

intact intact

minut.::'s, minut.::'s,

just just

carne carne

thE! thE!

all all

this this

put put

equalization equalization

if if

in in

I I

It It a a

got got

Do Do

. .

think think

in in

frorn frorn

dollars, dollars, we1"e? we1"e?

frorn frorn

in in

Lake Lake

for for

think think

MEMBERS

rniles rniles

maximum maximum

de de

you you

in in

getting getting

Premier Premier of of

to to

a a

Newfoundland's Newfoundland's

brought brought

to to

arena arena

yesterday

of of

three three

jumped jumped

significant significant

before before

perhaps perhaps

a1l a1l

it. it.

Province. Province.

you you

document: document:

this this

Grave? Grave?

longliner longliner

and and place. place.

this this

pelts. pelts.

thE! thE!

the the

this this

have have

Port Port

they they

this this

it it

and and

wet. wet.

l:o l:o

and and

: :

knotAJ knotAJ

have have

th~::~re th~::~re

weeks weeks

of of

but but

rE!al rE!al from from

get get

Session Session

got got

country. country.

is is

next next

in in

on on

to to

this this

de de

L.r,~gi$1atul"e, L.r,~gi$1atul"e,

outside outside

and and

. .

lAJe lAJe

askE~d askE~d

is is

Lhat Lhat

ftve ftve

ThE:~ ThE:~

rea1.ly rea1.ly

go go

1,200 1,200

thern. thern.

Lhal-

f:ivE! f:ivE!

down down

Gr'ave, Gr'ave,

the the

one one

tAJhat tAJhat

with with

stx stx

isstH~s isstH~s

not not

lJ.Jill lJ.Jill

The The

have have

so so

-House -House

report report

discussJng discussJng

number number

trying trying

a a

po1it:i.ca1 po1it:i.ca1

pric~::~ pric~::~

is is

mJnutes. mJnutes.

rr1c:~. rr1c:~.

dollars dollars

hundred hundred

on. on.

of of

rninul:es rninul:es

to to

is is

bit: bit:

on on

sea1s. sea1s.

Harris Harris

Meech Meech

l..h(!".iJ" l..h(!".iJ"

sp<:!nL sp<:!nL

going going

do:i.ng do:i.ng

H~ H~

1na 1na

fi"OI"IJ fi"OI"IJ

five five

most most

that that

thJ.s thJ.s

not: not:

HolAJ HolAJ

got got

l:he l:he

the the

ar·e ar·e

the the

oF oF

or or

of of

to to

if if no no AN HON. MEMBER: suspE!Ct, in crisis. a crumbling They dropped . econoll'ly and then, of cou1nse, l~h1:! incompetent Finance Minister we MR. WINSOR: discove1ned; and thE!n the cure·~-a].l, Six to nine. the one that was going to solve all the probl~::~ms,the Economic AN HON. MEMBER: Recovery Team. Six to nine is not a drop. Thert::~is a Jist . MR. WINSOR: No. the drop was from seventeen MR. SIMMS: dollars last year down to nine; Just run through them. now. they have just gone ·from six to nine. The Minister of Social Okay. Increases in um~mployiTIE!nt, Services says you cannot makE! any tax increases, gasoJ.ine tax, money at it. catastrophe in our fishery, increases in electricity rates, MR. EFFORD: forced amalgamation, Beaton Tulk - 'yCi~u--"-'5'h'ou1 d n e v e r h a v e 1 e t I wonder who that is; Bill 53 - Greenpeace into the Province. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WINSOR: You took care of that . Well. maybe that is the case . MR. WINSOR: So. these people were not I took care of Beaton fulk, yes. concerned about Meech Lake. AN HON. MEMBER: To the average Newfoundlander on And 1John 1 took care of him after . the street. Meech Lake is some kind of thing that people talk MR. WINSOR: about and argue about. but it has John took care of hirn after . no r·eal meaning. fhe Premier knows the average Newfoundlander promise of improved labour is not concerned about Meech relations; What:. IAJas NAPE said it 1 Lake. That is lAJhy he is going to today? I think it IAJas Next U.1W:! rescind Meech Lake approval it tAiill bt~ a big strike, bE!Cause without having hearings. everyonE! wi11 go out LhE! onE! 1 time. lAJas it not? Proulise to cul: MR. SIMMS: out political patronage. Who IAJas To cover up all the problems . just appointed to Lhe new corporation out in Gander, I MR. WINSOR: wonder? To cover up all the Province 1s problems. promise never to tolerate conflict of interest, promise to 1 MR. FUf~EY: bring home every rnother s son, Did you turn down splitting the promise to eJ.irninate pork resolution? barrelling, and the list goE:~son and on and on. I am glad the

MR. WINSOR: Minis·ter asked l~hes~::~questions, AlJ. the problems in this Province. bE!Cause we have some idE!a of thE:! the fishery in crisis. the problems facing this Province. forestry and thE! Minister. too. I

L39 April 4-. 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 1n9

MR. MR.

Water Water

In In

No. No.

L4-0 L4-0

MR. MR.

will will

the the

St. St. Lumsden Lumsden

community community

seem seem

on on

that? that?

mi1es mi1es

District. District.

MR. MR. paved paved

I I

to to

District. District.

straight straight

Administration. Administration.

paved paved Oh, Oh,

The The

Order. Order.

MR. MR.

SOME SOME

hearing hearing

Let Let

MR. MR.

lot lot

What What

MR. MR. what what

Yes. Yes.

a a

in in

The The

AN AN

(Inaudible) (Inaudible)

wonder wonder

little little

a a

drive drive

HON. HON.

the the

around around

SIMMS: SIMMS:

WINSOR: WINSOR:

SIMMS: SIMMS:

they they

WINSOR: WINSOR:

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

oh! oh!

WINSOR: WINSOR:

FLIGHT: FLIGHT:

of of

Chair Chair

Liberal Liberal

Economic Economic

to to

John's John's

HON. HON.

about about

a a

reca11 reca11

during during

me me

of of

Thr:~ Thr:~

and and

please! please!

farce! farce!

PC PC

last last

that, that,

tAJill tAJill

the the

MEMBFR: MEMBFR: recall, recall,

April April

did did

bit bit

gravel gravel

tJJhy tJJhy

unpaved unpaved

shore shore

of of

by by

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

Mr:~mber Mr:~mber

is is

te1l te1l

your your

the the

sewer sewer

speaker. speaker.

your your

The The

Since Since

year. year.

District? District?

Lumsden Lumsden

not not

the the

about about

tell tell

West, West,

quite quite

Administration Administration

what what

they they

having having

Recovery Recovery

4-, 4-,

Distict? Distict?

and and

section section

loop loop

roads roads

mention mention

a a

PC PC

district district

rest rest

1.990 1.990

road road

you you

My My

seemed seemed

you, you,

our our

they they

the the

did did

Let Let

Administration. Administration.

1972. 1972.

vividly vividly

my my

from from

difficulty difficulty

to to

friend friend

from from

Conservative Conservative

District District

District. District.

left left

friend friend

of of

not not

that that

me me

about: about:

Commission, Commission,

we we

that. that.

think. think.

to to

Gander Gander

got

Vol Vol

LumsdE!n, LumsdE!n,

tell tell

on on

it it

mention mention

Lumsden Lumsden

had had

in in

during during

rnakr:~ rnakr:~

having having

. .

XLI XLI

from from

Frorn Frorn

the the

all all

the the

got got

you you

10 10

in in

I I

a a

No. No.

What What

and and

No, No,

MR. MR.

--·------·---

extreme extreme

We We

conditions conditions

AN AN Musgrave Musgrave

The The

Tilting, Tilting, $28 $28

million million

MR. MR.

because because

everyone everyone

now now

thE! thE!

not not

What What

MR. MR.

take take

Do Do

MR. MR.

(Inaudible). (Inaudible).

One One

Winsor? Winsor?

disaster disaster

MR. MR.

Enjoy Enjoy

Who Who

disaster disaster MR. MR.

B B

watE!r watE!r

Had Had

Carmanville, Carmanville,

MR. MR.

Tory Tory

the the

best best

LiberaJ. LiberaJ.

N N

-·-~-QN_, -·-~-QN_,

s. s.

are are

HON. HON.

WINSOR: WINSOR:

17 17

we we

not not

WINSOR

WINSOR: WINSOR:

FUREY: FUREY:

term. term.

a a

FUREY: FUREY:

WINSOR: WINSOR:

no. no.

milJion milJion

-FE!rry -FE!rry

announced announced

tiiTII'::~. tiiTII'::~.

tJJas tJJas

was was sure sure

care care

in in

it. it.

good good

was was

Province. Province.

Governrrli:>nt Governrrli:>nt

__ __

still still

and and

are are

And And

MEMBER

~_l_~!i_~K ~_l_~!i_~K

of of

worry worry

ice ice

that? that?

the the

that, that,

happened happened watE!I" watE!I"

tJJa tJJa

ferry ferry

so1idly, so1idly,

We We

of of

: :

struck, struck,

it it

Member Member

did did

still still

s s

That That Har·bour. Har·bour.

selAJel" selAJel"

in in

ThE! ThE!

not not

heavy heavy

that, that,

not not

-Ferry. -Ferry.

that. that.

numerous numerous

Province. Province.

conditions conditions

do do

de de

: :

is is

one one

th,;:, th,;:,

about about

1 1

and and

not not

the the

For For

Minis Minis

i i

sure. sure.

not not

only only

not not

g g

in in in in

then. then.

job, job,

was was

dtd dtd

h h

going going

ice ice

term? term?

in in

The The

$25 $25

too. too.

ted ted

sewer·. sewer·.

lAIOJ"k lAIOJ"k

Cap Cap

Sound. Sound.

sure sure

We We

Fogo Fogo

know know

lei" lei"

it. it.

Car·manvi Car·manvi

that, that,

a a

1979. 1979.

onE! onE!

conditions. conditions.

lain lain

a a

tAli tAli

1979. 1979.

million million

when when

on on

are are

Town Town

model model

to to

out, out,

has has

l:. l:.

if if

And And

h h

cornplE• cornplE•

the the

Island. Island.

1 1

of of

An An

times, times,

it it

i. i.

work, work,

sUlJ. sUlJ.

votes votes

l: l:

Very Very j~lj.Q j~lj.Q

j j

IJJi IJJi

lle, lle,

Ea1"l Ea1"l

ice ice

LISt LISt

$11 $11

bu bu

The The

thE! thE!

for for

l:he l:he

Lhe Lhe

is is

at at

11 11

to to

of of

to to l:. l:. going to provide reliable make some sense out of what the transportation. Members opposite Premier had, and I am sure they like to flick across at us all the did not gE!t much out of it. But t"i.me, Look what w~:1are doi.ng ·Fol" UH:1 real reason the Pl"t::1miel" is Fogo District, as if nothing had doing this, as I said E!al"l-:i.r:•l", is ever been done for it. to deflect from t..uhat is going on in the economy around him. MS DU~£: That is why they voted Tory. The unfortunatE! thi .ng is that. -:in Newfoundland one the easiest ways MR. WINSOR: to evoke pub1ic r·e·sponse, g€d:. In fact' my friend from s·t. John Is public syrnpa·thy on your side, is East says, that is why they votE!d to say something about Quebec. Tory, they recognize that the Most Newfoundlanders, for some Tories had given them something. reason or another from past It was the previous Member who experiences, have developed this could not deliver anything. sense that Qut::1bec sornc::1how has given Newfoundland a rough time. What the Premier has now done is Now what we have to remember is set up this Province against the that when that infamous power deal rest of Canada. Th.:1 body of was signed - people out there, for the most par·t, think that the difficult AN HON. MEMBER: Umes Newfoundland :is experiencing (Inaud:ible). is because of the strained relationship that exists between MR. WINSOR: Ottawa and this Province. We No, no. I am not thE! only OnE! heard the Premier two days ago saying it. It is all ac1noss the moaning and groaning that Ottawa Province, everywhere. had excluded him from talks on the fishery, that the response program AN HON. MEMBER: the Federal Government had (Inaudible). announced, the Province was not consultE!d on it. He made · a gl"eat MR. WINSOR: issue of it. On1y a week ago we If you uli.J.J. recal1, rny fd.encl fot" saw the three Premiers from the St. John's East read out a l~:1Lter· rest of Atlantic Canada at a a constituent had wd.t.ten. I havt::' meeting with the Premier, and then had numerous people talk to me and they walked away and had their own complain about the French meeting to decide what would be Newfoundland problem. You have the fate of the Atlantic Provinces h.:1ard it before, we have al1 hear'd if there was no Canada. it , t: hat t 11e I" H i s a pro b 1 ern lAii t h it. The Prern:ier has capi. talJzecl What did they do with our on that to create great popularity Premier? They told him to go for his cause, and thE! l"t::'al rE!i:HOn home, go back to St. John 1 s, they came out yesterday when the were having a mE!eting all by Mird.ster of Fi.nanCE! spokE!. He themselves, despite the fact, by told the House yesterday. the way, that hE! was the host. I think he invited them to Corner AN l-ION. MEMBER: Brook, and following the meeting (InaudibJ.e) . with the Premier they had their own meeting, I suppose to try to MR. WINSOR:

L4-l April 4-, 1990 Vol XU No. 17 R4-1

divorce divorce

mean-spirited mean-spirited

L.42 L.42

Yes, Yes,

Clearly Clearly

However, However,

MR. MR.

That That land. land.

MR. MR.

this this

political political

research. research.

assure assure

that that

against against

ahead ahead

"This "This

It It

personal personal

Your Your

own own

Whatever Whatever

arrogance arrogance

perceive perceive

When When

thinking thinking

lib:~ lib:~

understood understood

and and

Some Some

Dear Dear

country country

I I

one one

had had dollar dollar

letters letters Floor: Floor:

Oh, Oh, and and

might might

roses roses

"The "The

It It

PrE!mier PrE!mier

this this

can can

WINSOR: WINSOR:

WALSH: WALSH:

:in :in

is is

a a

spirit. spirit.

thanks thanks

ambitions ambitions

Mr. Mr.

conceit, conceit,

things things

no, no,

it it

resolution resolution

read read

hon. hon.

no no

is is

of of

real real

you, you,

vote vote

is is

find find

leaves. leaves.

the the

cheques. cheques.

in in

and and

you you

transparent transparent

It It

Meech Meech

see see

likes likes

comes comes

ApriJ ApriJ

quite quite

a a

Wells

that that

it it

you you

aggrandizement aggrandizement

Canadians Canadians

those those

other. other.

the the

Clyde Clyde

a a

that that

the the

paper paper

it it

deeply deeply

to to

good good

simply simply

are are

coVE!r coVE!r

out out

against against

it. it.

has has

through through

consensus consensus

wi11 wi11

flowers flowers

: :

you you gr·eat gr·eat

to to

will will

country. country.

to to

you you

rn:lght rn:lght

you, you,

Lake Lake

may may

come come

, ,

and and

possible possible

your your

out out

of of

extent extent

of of

letter. letter.

1990 1990

insufferable insufferable

today, today,

There There

all all

K. K.

g~'t g~'t

Today' Today'

are are

been been

must must

It It

not not

for for

not not

take take

Most Most

there there

fools fools

think, think,

the the

confrontation. confrontation.

offends offends

self-interests self-interests

it. it.

of of

this this

Wells, Wells,

your your

and and

to to

grandstanding grandstanding

who who

vote vote

in in

putting putting

and and

those those

work. work.

nit-picking nit-picking

be be

was was

touch touch

s s

be be

will will

though, though,

bui1t bui1t

Premier's. Premier's.

your your

-Then -Then

thE! thE!

the the

him him

that that

of of

may may

Vol Vol

in in

generous generous

It It

country. country.

charade. charade.

TelE!grarn TelE!grarn

said

and, and,

no no

clearly clearly

against against

Quebec Quebec

a a

be be

Eighth Eighth

twenty twenty

says: says:

House House

be be

XLI XLI

v..Jith v..Jith

your· your·

one. one.

most most

your your

gall gall

with with

cake cake

this this

good good

nice nice

. .

not not

own own

the the

you you

be be

on on

it it

if if

a a

I I

No No

improve. improve. AN AN

lJJi lJJi

am am

signed signed after after

sweetheart sweetheart

Churchi11 Churchi11

Tt-~---not Tt-~---not

sit sit and and

(Inaudible)

MR. MR.

Development Development

around around

MR. MR.

to to No. No.

his his

place place

MR. MR. PrerniE:~r PrerniE:~r

And And

suppose, suppose,

have have

MR. MR.

it it

Vancouver, Vancouver,

Signed, Signed,

with with No, No,

721 721

Now, Now,

(Inaudible) (Inaudible)

Association

AN AN will will

that that

Our Our

guest. guest.

as as

yours, yours,

Newfound1and. Newfound1and.

. .

th th

. .

HON. HON.

was was

sure sure

HON. HON.

1 1

WINSOR

MURPHY

WINSOR: WINSOR:

MURPHY: MURPHY:

WINSOR

see see

infamous infamous

seE! seE!

down down

Newfoundland Newfoundland

'7 '7

Michael

in in

anyone anyone

sadness sadness

the the

Hopefully Hopefully

a a

this this

-1125 -1125

the the

w-.ith w-.ith

sorrow. sorrow.

l~he l~he

on on

will will

our our

MEMBER: MEMBER:

in in

MEMBER

if if

Please

they they

rnore rnore

the the

of of

Premier Premier

There There

v.Jhat v.Jhat

is is

the the

: :

Minister Minister

: :

to to

Fa11s. Fa11s.

. .

we we

your your

. .

B.C. B.C.

is is

the the

1967 1967

who who

economy economy

misguided misguided

ears, ears,

d~~al, d~~al,

warm warm

Presid1:-nt Presid1:-nt

should should

Quebec Quebec

middJe middJe

lJJ:i.11 lJJ:i.11

Murphy, Murphy,

w-.il1 w-.il1

remar·ks remar·ks

it? it?

West West

generous generous

same same

give give

: :

can can

one one

" "

is is

For· For·

would would

Minister Minister

lJJE:' lJJE:'

thE! thE!

But But

brother, brother,

failed failed

and and

to to

I I

From From

get get

thE! thE!

no no

takes takes

be be

van:i.sh, van:i.sh,

a a

of of

Newfoundland Newfoundland

To To

You You

this, this,

do do

UnH:ed UnH:ed

can can

you. you.

12th 12th

of of

hesitate hesitate

Fa1Ling Fa1Ling

get. get.

to to

question question

do do

I I

letter

yesterday, yesterday,

delighted delighted

con con

we we

Finance Finance

something something

M:i

Vancouv..:~r. Vancouv..:~r.

of of

not not

the the

nature nature

expect expect

to to

V..JOIJld V..JOIJld

would would

that? that?

all all

nJs nJs

oF oF

trac trac

ne~~otiat.E! ne~~otiat.E!

I I

you you

Canadians Canadians

do do

want want

involved involved

l~hE! l~hE!

Be Be

so so

knOlAJ knOlAJ

Avenue, Avenue,

letters letters

Stat.E!S, Stat.E!S,

. .

LE!I" LE!I"

do do

Energy Energy

l:. l:.

this, this,

their their

R'l2 R'l2

lJJ-:i

lltdde lltdde

clot.~.m clot.~.m

say, say,

tArith tArith

P. P.

long long

not. not.

than than

the the

not not

L•.JI? L•.JI?

in in

of of

th th

to to

if if

a a

1 1 . . MR. WINSOR : another one up in Toronto, an o1d What was that? You said the tug boat sixty·--four YE!ars oJ.cl. Liberals signed it? Is that lAJhal: You can have that one, too; it t~.Jas you said? in Lifestyle yesterday. If you are looking for a good boats - AN HON. MEMBER: No . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Give it to htm. r.1.~...!_]!)!J.H~9 ..R : I thought you said the Liberals MR. WINSOR: signed it in 1967. I was out in the Common Room listening to him spE!ak, and onE! of'

_(i_J'j__lj .. Q.~-~ ..!'11 E.~JL~ ..fi : the Members said, what is that? How is the ice situation? Is someone out preaching? The Member Fat~ Mount Scio - Bell MR. WINSOR: Island, sounded J.ike a great rh-e---rce-·-·sftuation is terrible . preacher.

DR. KITCHEN: I think the Minister of Are you looking after my ferry? Development should certainly sil down with the Minister responsible MR. WINSOR: for Hydr·o. The f'ir·sl.: Uroinq you No, Sir. havfi:~to do, of cout~se,is gE:d.. l:l"w Minister of Finance, sl:ip him out MR. WALSH: the bac kdoot" somE!WherE•, say hE! was Are you looking after the Beaumont a mistake, but we did not have Hamel? anyonfi:~else to put in Cabinet; lAW are rid of him now, and t.ue lAii.. ll MR. WINSOR: get on with develupi .ng this gn~at The Beaumont Hamel? You can have Province as we should. Thank you. the Beaumont Hamel any day at aJ.J. now. MR. SPEAKER : The han. thE! Mernbc:!r For· St. John's AN HON. MEMBER: East. "ft"-"i"'S'"'"a_g_oo"d'.."u e s s e 1 . MS DUFF: MR. WINSOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and hon . It is a good vessel. I told you Members. that earlier. I told you the Beaumont Ham~~lwas a good vesSE!l, As we wind up debate on this and you suggested what we should rather innocuous amendment to do was take the old Hamilton Motion 12, the Motion to rE!SCind Sound, the vessel that was worn the previous legislative approval out thirty years ago, put a new of this House of AssernbJ.y to thE! gear box and a new transmission in Meech Lake Accor·d, I atn moVE!d to it and use that for the Fogo reflect, having J.istened very Island run. If that is the kind carefully over the last felAJ days, of ferry this MernbE!r is going to on holAJ fr·agil.e OUI" sense of design for the Bell Island run, nation-hood is in Canada. I think then the Marystown Shipyard need it is :ir·onic and sad that the 1.98'7 not fear work, because he tAJill be constitutional amendment, the around this ProvincE! buying up aLl. Meech Lake Accord, which was the junk there is. There is enh~red into and agJ"e,~dto by l:l:~n

L.4-3 ApriJ. 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 R4-3

·.

were were

made, made,

Constitution, Constitution, L44 L44

demands. demands.

get get

process process

demands demands

wanted wanted

that that

Langevin Langevin

average average

lips lips

back back took took

street. street.

that. that.

federal federal

Levesque, Levesque,

of of

people people

nuit nuit knifed knifed

believed believed

the the

regardless regardless

which which

is is

have have

the the

Liberal Liberal

opposite opposite

family. family.

wounds wounds excluded, excluded,

attempt attempt

by by

that that

The The

Premier Premier

frustrate frustrate

the the Rene Rene

debate debate

constitutional constitutional

maturi

to to

for·ward for·ward

relief relief

all all

hai1ed hai1ed

Premiers, Premiers,

wo wo

true. true.

Rene Rene

the the

be be

back, back,

years, years,

political political

des des

1982 1982

of of

is is

changed, changed,

it it

poliU.caJ. poliU.caJ.

Meech Meech

to to

tremendous tremendous

moved moved

accepted. accepted.

was was his his

ty, ty,

Levesque, Levesque,

in in

and and

nationally nationally

of of

included. included.

which which

of of

in in

the the

and and

April April

is is

exclusion exclusion

to to

the the

Premier Premier

laid laid

all all

longues longues

have have

that that

they they

Levesque Levesque

They They ordinary ordinary

Block Block

Premier Premier

the the

and and

left

is is

process. process.

the the

Because Because

of of

Quebec Quebec

Canada's Canada's

the the

a a

not not

negotiation negotiation

with with

to to

province province

phrase phrase

people people

Lake Lake

least least

way way

now now

be be

myth myth

throwing throwing

: :

and and

back. back.

now now

referred referred

4. 4.

what what

I I

to to

had had

diu'.ide diu'.ide

is is

table table

on on

the the

parties, parties,

Prime Prime

believe believe

with with

and and

unity unity

day. day.

one one

these these

. .

reality reality

use use

couteaux, couteaux,

a a

1990 1990

risks risks

of of

some some

by by

included. included.

back back

as as

the the

opening opening

a a

he he

may may

of of

Accord Accord

of of

that that

been been

this this

was was

restore restore

I I

But But

the the

very very

of of

that that

the the

man man

covenant covenant

constitutionaJ. constitutionaJ.

the the

a a

night night

Their Their

1987 1987

subject subject

things things

did did

Now. Now. with with

believe believe

could could

QuebE!C. QuebE!C. Minister Minister

a a

the the

through through

Quebec Quebec

Quebec. Quebec.

extent extent

gaping gaping of of

compromises compromises

to to

Quebec, Quebec,

into into

have have

Quebec Quebec

into into

in in

that that

major major

they they

intentions intentions

that that

separatist separatist

the the

knifed knifed

which which

is is

from from

table table

phrase phrase

for for

not not

Vo Vo

we we

Province Province

in in

the the

Canadian Canadian

minimal minimal

was was

demands demands

Premier Premier

because because

Members Members

'.in '.in

Canada, Canada,

up up

ask ask

1 1

on on

coming coming

had had

been, been,

times times

of of

XLI XLI

were were

took took

want want

they they

fact fact

that that

from from

this this

hole hole

that that

high high

step step

tAJas tAJas

the the

who who

the the

thE! thE!

was was

And And

old old

the the

was was

and and

by by

to to

la la

in in

an an

a a

No. No.

de de

other other

I I

including including

concerns concerns

over--emphasis, over--emphasis,

things things

concerns concerns

disparate disparate

The::~ The::~

and and

to to a a

to to

will, will,

and and

omJ.ssions omJ.ssions

I I

cannot cannot

that that

have have

about about

all all

we we

asking asking

is is

they they

is is

interests interests wrap

do do

strong strong We We

Members Members

have have flag. flag.

our our

thing. thing.

and and

We We

do do

how how

to to

and, and,

In In lAdth lAdth

prepar·ed prepar·ed

that that

the the

prepares prepares

a a

arn arn

hear hear

1 1

nation nation

moue moue

dc::~aJ. dc::~aJ.

this this

say say

t t

all all

most most

this this

t t

17 17

Members, Members,

not not

make make

people people

Meech Meech

if if

he he

strong strong

dearly dearly

tries tries

to to

with with

asking asking

are are

Quebec Quebec

we we

to to

with with

seem seem

at at

themselves themselves

haue haue

the the

W:! W:!

groups, groups,

myselF myselF

piously piously

and and

seem seem

be be

c c o

And And

were were

from from

toward toward

the the

on on

ask ask

entire entire

with with

that

really really

want want

process process

say say

likely likely

it it

to to

u u

language language

of of

in in

of of

as as

the the

to to

all all

to to n

as as

Lake Lake

of of

scenar·io scenar·io

to to

both both

in in

concerned concerned

ry ry

groups groups

faith faith

try try

put put

: :

unitc::~d unitc::~d

you you

Quebec Quebec

and and

myse1F myse1F

we we

that that

politicaJ.:J.y politicaJ.:J.y

slap slap

to to

men men

Newfoundland Newfoundland

.. ..

ME!ech ME!ech

that that want want

the the

thE! thE!

regionally regionally

Quebec Quebec

have have

make make

other· other·

dealt dealt

break break

been been

8 8 1

it it

further further

seem seem

same same

to to

con

Canada, Canada,

debate debate

and and

9 9

very

wi wi

lovE! lovE!

be be

J.oue J.oue

sides sides

Accord Accord

to to

in in

is is

to to

including including

and and

so so

2 2

in in

tlwrn tlwrn

1 1

is is

QUE!bec QUE!bec

oth

l:hal: l:hal:

is is

the the

. .

erned erned

be be

J. J.

minorities minorities

been been

a a

in in

saying saying

. .

Canada. Canada. wring wring

seriously seriously

going going

notAl notAl

LakE•. LakE•.

question question

as as

to to

happE!n

in in

one one

time, time,

divisive divisive

to to

QUE!bec QUE!bec

honestly. honestly.

women women

because because

s s

cornprorrd.se cornprorrd.se

its its

with: with:

the the

rE!gions, rE!gions,

the the

The The

ironic. ironic.

r s s r

u u

of of

I I

same same

agreem

any any

anti

given given

'.in '.in

tAJhat.euc::~r tAJhat.euc::~r

r u u u r e i

be be

about about

is is

tAJas tAJas

understand. understand.

which which

E!XpresSE!d. E!XpresSE!d.

everything everything

rE!giona11y rE!giona11y

have have

impossibJ.e impossibJ.e

abou

different different

qUE!SU

document. document.

out out

the the

to to

'id

within within

que que

the the

. .

the the

Canadian Canadian

country, country,

clairning clairning -

covenant covenant

can can

I I

of of

end? end?

we we

Quebec, Quebec,

E! E!

women, women,

called called

and and

, ,

expE!Cl: expE!Cl:

Bul: Bul:

s s

olhE!l~ olhE!l~

lAJouJcl lAJouJcl

oLhE!l~ oLhE!l~

ocess ocess

think think

. .

House House

heard heard

nt. nt.

hands hands

I I

tAJE!re tAJE!re

1~4·4 1~4·4

lAJ~lE!n lAJ~lE!n

t:t t:t

that that

good good

that that

t t

too. too.

sarne sarne

Face Face

on, on,

Lhe Lhe

why why

l the the

hat hat

are are

on on

of of

ms ms

an an

in in

arn arn

hc~ hc~

tAle tAle

we we

I I a a ...

and they are legitimate, about the bul"ial. That is whc1t l considel" omissions of Meecl1 Lake, can they this rnov~;:~rnt::~ntto rescind and Lhen be dealt w".i.th in a companion have public ht::~arings.The pub1Jc accord? Can they be dealt with hearings shou1d be held first, thr·ough a const::~nsuson the other because the decision to rescind is issues through the ongoing pr·ocess very serious. of a First Minister 1 s Conference. or must the Accord die and the So, I have to ask myse1f l.l.Jhy are process be debated all over we in this unseemly haste? Why do again? Is Meech Lake, in fact, IAJe have to rush t:hrough a mol:.ion the ten comrnanclrr~~:,~ntsthat frE!E!Zes of c1osure? Why do we have to out all other possibility of stifle debate? I will tell you future change, or is it a step in why. Because Uw Pl"E!lTriE!r. uJho has a process? And can l:hat process a fantastic public relations be started again as a constructive outfit up thE!l~e-- it a11otAJE~dhirn dialogue if Meech Lake fails? ·to put through that con job of a budget, and is also a11owing hirn The closure motion we have heard to con the public on the intent of brought in today I think is a very the Meech LakE! dE!batE! ··· real.iZE:!S serious moue and a very great pity that national public opinion is for this Province and for Canada. turning against hirn, that. hE• j_s no Last night, we heard a fraudulent longer the white haired boy of hint of public hE!arings as a Canada. He is sU.J.l getl:.ing hate direct response to the pressure Canada literature in his rne:1.il, buL that has beE!n put on by the responsible columnists right Opposition and public opinion that across Canada this week are is beginning to realize that there referring to it as Clyde Wel1s is not enough knotAJledge about t:his dangerous fantasies. Accord. But IAJe see now our Prt::Hnier. through a closure motion. AN HON. MEMBER: rushing to be the self-appointed Read some to them . lord high executioner of Meech Lake, because that is all that MS DUFF: decision will do. The decision to :r-·-··;~li1T.. read you a paragr·aph fl"om rescind is so important and the Bruce Hutchingson in the Vancouver impact is so serious for the Sun, one of the wes te1"n prouin ces possibility of any resolution of to whom Senate reform is very this Constitutional crisis, that important. It says: 1 According to it is not t.he Premier 1 s proposals. Canadian Press, Premier Clyde it is not Mt::~echLake itself that: Wells thinks that annexation IJ..r:i.th needs to go to a public hearing. the U.S. is a possible choicE• fol" it is the decision to rescind. Newfoundland. In fact, he says IAJe Because onCE! that is donE!, it can may wel1 be a good deal better of f never· be taken back. And it is a in that circumstance than to bE! a time that we need sober second province of Canada with the thought. regional economic disparities l:hat exist entrenched in the We are embarked on a dangerous, Constitution with no way oF unprecedented and unnecessary corrE!Cti.ng it. 1 You have to l"E!ad 1 course of action here. It is like this lAri th sal"casm: Mr. W1~11s killing your Grandmother and then knows how to correct: the caLling the family together to see Constitution, we must start by how you can give her a decent denying the obvtous fac l that

L4-S April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No . 1 'I I~4-5

my my

Senate Senate

drain

Senate Senate

Canada Canada

willing willing

accept accept

L46 L46 Constitution, Constitution,

a a

Accord Accord

Getty Getty

would would

Meech Meech

that that

trying trying

this this

We1ls, We1ls, would would

Meech Meech

easier. easier.

believe believe

Quebec Quebec

and and

Mr. Mr.

agree agree

Reform Reform

reform reform

afterwards. afterwards.

Government. Government.

difficult difficult grounds grounds

For For

accommodation accommodation

Mail Mail

demands demands Newfoundland Newfoundland

23rd 23rd

are are

This This

recognition.' recognition.'

Newfoundland Newfoundland

in in

clear clear

was was

yet yet

Quebec Quebec

recognized, recognized, speeches, speeches,

of of

America America

Act Act

'Premier 'Premier

very very

time time

1949, 1949,

changes changes

1791, 1791,

we we

of of

, ,

the the

McKenna McKenna

so so

is is

whole whole

despite despite

lever, lever,

1 1

noted noted

to to

boycott boycott

of of

s s

Lake Lake

fault fault

so so

morE• morE•

requir'E! requir'E!

this this

is is

Lake Lake

Reform Reform

to to

would would

important important

Reform. Reform.

unacceptable unacceptable

into into

that that

1774, 1774,

without without

our our

negotiation negotiation

as as

from from

Apri.l Apri.l

recognized recognized

you you

Act Act

absence. absence.

Federal Federal

reading, reading,

no no

How How

its its

I I

but but

a a

and and

blackmail blackmail

reflected reflected

April April

to to

debate debate

partner partner

to to

it, it,

dtfFicult., dtfFicult.,

am am

Accord, Accord,

Clyde Clyde

Accord Accord

significant significant

it it

More More

distinct distinct

the the

entered entered

chances chances

will will

has has

deny deny

of of

Senate Senate

and and

possible possible

the the

and and

the the

not not

that that

in in

4, 4,

constitutional constitutional

can can

many many

distinct distinct

If If

some some

go go

the the

not not

in in

l~he l~he

imagine imagine

unanimous unanimous

however, however,

1990 1990

Quebec Quebec Toronto Toronto

If If

the the

Government Government

question question

1767. 1767.

made made

I I

probably, probably,

best best

Constitution Constitution

right right

Quebec Quebec

Senate Senate

2nd 2nd

part part

is is

others, others,

but but

Critics Critics

get get

going going

there there

unless unless

might might

not not

in in

LAJe LAJe

people people

think think

Blnitish Blnitish

we we

in in

such such

of of

Confederation Confederation

Constitution, Constitution,

the the

Reform Reform

society. society.

Wells Wells

of of

centered centered

befo1ne befo1ne

but but

it it

efforts efforts to to

nE!eds nE!eds

because because

the the

there there

Meech Meech

to to

editorial: editorial:

will will

a a

change change

defeating defeating kill kill

down down

Globe Globe

make make

political political

And And

on on

being being

to to

Vol Vol

and and

the the

Quebec's Quebec's

rest rest

continue continue

that that

getting getting

because because

as as

consent consent

is is

we we

equally equally

of of

as as

Senate Senate

it it

rea1ly rea1ly

Quebec Quebec

t.uas t.uas

would would

talks talks

No1nth No1nth

XLI XLI

with with

make make

what what

June June

were were

when when

Lake Lake

same same

are are

the the

get get

not not

Mr. Mr.

the the

and and

his his

Act. Act.

of of

on on

is is

it it

Le Le

it it

in in

is is

of of

no no

of of

It It

a a

No. No.

and and

the the

is is

scenarios scenarios

a a

rnornent rnornent

consequenc.::~s consequenc.::~s

of of forward forward

which which

about about the the

no no

Now Now

opinion opinion

the the

fact, fact,

interpretations interpretations

case, case,

rnoment rnoment finds finds

constant constant I I

created created

public public

1tl1:fnk 1tl1:fnk

MS MS

than than constitutional constitutional

behind behind

to to

going going

is is

the the cons cons

right right

SOME SOME

John's, John's,

He He

Premier Premier

not. not.

That That

AN AN

Hear, Hear,

even even

raU.fied raU.fied

has has other other

papers papers

strong strong

did did

t.l.lhat t.l.lhat

DUFF: DUFF:

HON. HON.

go go

this this

17 17

consequences consequences

afraid afraid

nobody nobody

tit tit

said said

got got

future future

said, said,

road road

is is

HON. HON.

the the

that that

discussion discussion

and and

hear! hear!

out out

what what

arE! arE!

the the

he he

now, now,

articles articles

uti uti

opinion, opinion,

for for

him, him,

to to

MEMBER: MEMBER:

from from

we we

has has and and

we we

action action

is is

in in

too, too,

all all

WE! WE!

and and

public public

on on

MEMBERS

that that

possible possible

case case

after after

before before

I I

and and

is is

himself himself

and and

certai.nly certai.nly

can can

that: that:

staunch staunch

Meech Meech

of of

have have

potential potential

my my

a a

to to

preaching preaching

running running

is is

want. want.

be be

thtnk thtnk

1 1

to to

Chretien Chretien

Newfoundland Newfoundland

even even

have have

quickly, quickly,

the the

united united

the the

get get

last last

cornE!r, cornE!r,

Newfoundland Newfoundland

people people

tell. tell.

corner· corner·

get get

that that

what what

death death

in in

to to

NetAJfoundJand, NetAJfoundJand,

in in MeE!Ch MeE!Ch

the the

all all

of of

: :

of of

painted painted

so so

Lake Lake

it it

his his

opinion opinion

votes votes

ar0' ar0'

Chretien Chretien

person person

sl.ight:est sl.ight:est

rescind, rescind,

fact, fact,

There There

ant'.i. ant'.i.

an an

of of

pub1ic pub1ic

other other

me me

this this

night, night,

scar'E!d scar'E!d

s s

Accord Accord

Canc1da, Canc1da,

that that

has has

not not

• •

we we

Meech Meech

t.uant, t.uant,

l:oocl l:oocl today. today.

and and

itself

consequences consequences

road road

is is

that that

in in

and and

rnor·e rnor·e

he he

Lake Lake

that that

uninfornmecl uninfornmecl

of of

ME!r,~ch ME!r,~ch

action action

financial financial

are are

been been

From From

l:.he l:.he

has has

tha tha

can can

possible possible

he he

who who

whE!n whE!n

into into

arnE~ndr:~d. arnE~ndr:~d.

national national

at at

up up

show show

opinion opinion

at. at.

dJd dJd

and and

tAJithin tAJithin

fl.at.~.Jed fl.at.~.Jed

can can

public public

by by

or or

. .

he he

or or

today, today,

which which

l~ l~

wan wan

Lake, Lake,

eVE!n eVE!n

1~46 1~46

br:•en br:•en

hure hure

c1u•:> c1u•:>

on]y on]y

t t

that that

say, say,

into into

put put

his his

has has

the the

our our

St. St.

l:.he l:.he

man man

of of

on on

in in

on on

hE! hE!

is is

hE! hE!

hE• hE•

t t

bE! bE!

a a

a a s s though the three atlantic hear·ings, aJ.:J. tAJe arE• doing, is provinces are now busily looking rescinding'. Well I cannot say at that very scenario: what are st.rongJ.y enough that that is all the financial consequences to we wtll ever do, because if we Atlantic Canada, if Meech Lake rescind this, any other foolish fails? gestures totAJard public hearings or anything else on subsequent issues I thtnk this question deserves a will mean nothing, because we will careful, objective and informed have already taken the action that examination by and for the public, is going to put a nail in the before the action to rescind, coffin of Meech Lake and that will which is more important than trigger· in a set. of conSE!CJUE!nces, anything that follows afterwards. which I feel lAJilJ. bE~ Uei"Y, UE!Iny We have heard talk of damaging to this Province. It fearmongering. I think we have will not put NE!lAJfoundland on thE• been accused time and time again same footing as New Brunst.~-Jickand of fearmongering because we say Manitoba, and Members opposite that the Meech Lake Accord, tf it think that it will but in this - fails, will be seriously diui s i u e for Canada and a threat to AN HON. MEMBER: Canadian unity. even though that Are you in Favour of public opinion has been widely accepted hearings. and is gaining far more ground r·ight across Canada. But I would MS DUFF : ask you, who started the fear? Is I am very much in favour of public the public opinion in Newfoundland hE:~arings,before we take this based on an understanding of Meech motion to rE!SCind ME:~E!ChLake. Lake or is it based on .a fear of Before! Before! Before! I cannot entrenchment of economic say it often enough, loud enough disparity. of being a second class or hard enough. We are not go:ing province, of having economic to be on the same footing as shackles around our necks? Is it Manitoba and New Brunsw:ick. In based on a fear and dislike of the first place, it is vetny Quebec, is it based on an obu:ious notAJ, that Mani Loba is admiration of thE! courage of thE! moving towards Meech Lake and I Premier, which I have willingly think the polit:ical real:ity is, admitted I also admire, and I people will understand that Gary think that it is a factor. There Filrnon cannot rnoue, he has got is another point of view and the Sharron Carstairs barking at his point of view is that Meech Lake heels, he 'is in a polit.ical is not as the Premier say~. an end dilemma in his own province. to Senate Reform and a permanent economic disparity. It is simply Even if he wanted to ~oue. he the beginning of a process totAJard cannot moue. which we must continue to moue, in compromise, in co-operation, and That puts us in a position wrH:~re in goodwill with the other we gave and where we now take partners in the Confederation, if back, where WE! gave our· word, tAJe we are going to get any of the gave our conuenant, and notAJ tAle

L47 April 4, 1990 Vol XLI No. 17 1\47

of of

Wells. Wells.

of of

L48 L48

tragedy tragedy will will

intelligence, intelligence,

acknowledge acknowledge

says: says: national national

March March

in in

play play to to

we we

article article

style, style,

I I

Quebec. Quebec.

it it

I I

opinion opinion callE!d callE!d it it

with with

thE! thE!

and and

people people

Meech Meech

intransigent intransigent

narrow narrow

provincial provincial

to to

impression impression

with with

convictions, convictions,

occur occur

we we

where where

It It

the the

ranking ranking

concerns concerns

when when

concerns concerns

Meech Meech

I I

constitutional constitutional

not not

s s

about about

t.:and t.:and

think, think,

those those

would would is is

history history

the the

can can

would would

fact fact

will will

fall fall

t1ny t1ny

is is

that that

soured soured

a a

such such

the the

know. know.

after after

we we

be be

'it 'it

12 12

necessarily necessarily

alone. alone.

Canad1.ans Canad1.ans

VE!ry VE!ry

the the

of of

end end

lake. lake.

and and

Premier Premier

tJJhat tJJhat

view view

my my

the the

but but

that that

can can

to to

April April

This This

guys. guys.

it it

richly richly

are are

not not

on on

future. future.

Now Now

will will

on on

other other

dies, dies,

by by

of of

Newfoundland Newfoundland

is is

have have

likE! likE!

a a

the the

The The

of of

that that

Peculiar Peculiar

up up

rE! rE!

his his

get get

impression impression

this this

it it

shift shift

the the

is is

poor poor

decisive decisive

rt::'gional rt::'gional

going going

John John

But But

politician politician

I I

of of

lations lations

too too

bE! bE!

I I

could could

is is

our our

a a

as as

4, 4,

particular particular

courage courage

Maybe Maybe

Unless Unless

and and

his his

read read

is is

in in

exercise exercise

nine nine

Financial Financial

be be

Province Province

very very

Clyde Clyde

complex complex

d_o d_o

back back

fishery, fishery,

sincerity. sincerity.

to to

the the

Meech Meech

to to

the the

man man

1990 1990

soon soon

understanding understanding

start start

that that

Premier Premier

very very

true, true,

Godfrey. Godfrey.

happening happening

a a

He He

large. large.

to to

the the

no_t no_t

given given

Logtc Logtc

hips hips

recently recently

ask, ask,

easily easily

provinces provinces

courage, courage,

strange strange

rE!ad rE!ad

fall fall

we we

stubborn, stubborn,

cornplirnE!ntary cornplirnE!ntary

Confederation Confederation

stand. stand.

Premier. Premier.

to to

Wells Wells

is is

disparity disparity

role role

who who

Lake Lake

we we

to to

who who

quickly quickly

that that

is is

think think

characters characters

but but

clo. clo.

fails fails

the the

or or

to to

Premier's Premier's

that that

of of

like like

with with

and and

speak speak

Vol Vol

of of

as as guy. guy.

article, article,

Post Post

if if

national national

want want

He He

will will

was was

another another

to to

falls. falls.

but but

in in

exactly exactly

should should

public public

to to

change change

It It

irony irony

from, from,

Clyde Clyde

a a

after after

table table

worry worry

after after

XLI XLI

does does

I I

wi wi

what what

that that

this this

one one

our our

his his

thE! thE!

and and

man man

his his

our our

and and

of of

he he

is is

of of

It It

be be

11 11

so so

in in

do do

to to

a a

No. No.

MS MS

writing writing

Yes

MS MS

No. No.

month. month.

AN AN

opinion opinion

Yours Yours

AN AN

of of

shoulders.' shoulders.'

history history

(Inaudible)

learn learn

he he

given given

which which

specific specific

which which

ignorance ignorance

He He

narrow narrow a

1867 1867

of of

to to

a a

of of useful useful

MS MS is is

Lake. Lake.

potentially potentially

SO~!..~ SO~!..~

Hear, Hear,

welfare welfare But But

matters. matters.

Newfoundlanders. Newfoundlanders.

flaws flaws

in in

his his

one one

his his

knowledge knowledge

DUFF: DUFF:

basic basic

DUFF: DUFF:

HON. HON.

. .

language language

DUFF: DUFF:

of of

is is se.:,ms se.:,ms

his his

a a

17 17

the the

Shakespeare Shakespeare

stubborn stubborn

H H

can can

there there

truly, truly,

Yours Yours

ON ON

hear! hear!

reasonable reasonable

genuine genuine

to to

character. character.

genuinely genuinely

more more

undermines undermines

in in

are are

he he

His His

intelligence, intelligence,

MEMBER: MEMBER:

convictions convictions

MEMBER

might might

in in

curr'E!nt curr'E!nt

in in

~-J~IJJ'1!tE ~-J~IJJ'1!tE

minded minded

ignoranCE! ignoranCE!

constil:utoional constil:utoional

rests rests

to to

doubt doubt

Quebec, Quebec,

that that

other other

. .

the the

Queb1?.c. Queb1?.c.

othE!Y' othE!Y'

dangerously dangerously

tJJas tJJas

and and

fatal fatal

Don Don

about about

of of

have have

suffers suffers

truly, truly,

: :

of of

is is

R R

Ftnancial Ftnancial

be be

S S

concern concern

education. education.

rea1:i.t.y rea1:i.t.y

Mazankowski

whose whose

circurns circurns

no no

his his

self-righteousness self-righteousness

convinced convinced

unwtllingness unwtllingness

heavily heavily

: :

the the

outcome outcome

no no

great great

also also

No No

weaknesst::~s. weaknesst::~s.

despitE! despitE!

the the

is is

of of

that that

admirable admirable

sp1:'<:-ial sp1:'<:-ial

his his

ThE! ThE!

constitutional constitutional

sincerity sincerity

John John

id.:'a id.:'a

one one

very very

coup1ed coup1ed

Quebec. Quebec.

virtues virtues

marked marked

tancr::•s. tancr::•s.

possibility possibility

from from

failinq failinq

mixed. mixed.

refeJ~(•nces refeJ~(•nces

and and

of of

burdt=!n burdt=!n

Post Post

province. province.

can can

for for

on on

tJJhatever tJJhatever

on on

s s

all all

that that

GodFrey GodFrey

. .

trE!ngth trE!ngth

WorsE•, WorsE•,

public public

status status

fellow fellow

Meech Meech

doubt doubt

1~48 1~48

by by

this this

t~li

his his

the the

One One

and and

but. but.

two two

and and

his his

the the

of of

to to

An An

is is

th th

No No

a a n n .....

I think therE! is some feeling by exercise, and the rescinding of Members on the other side of the the Meech lake Accord is dangerous House to, that we 1..uilJ., after all because it pushes Quebec opinion t:h:is is finished, go back to just in the opposite dilnE:~ct.ion.I like W(:~weJ~E! before. I heard the think at t.his point I should aJso Member fol" Mount Scio - Be1l make reference to the very Island (Mr. Walsh) talking about, unfortunate remarks of the han. this is a strong, united, happy, Minister of Finance. I know he wonderful, get together Canada stood and apologized. I sa1..u thE! when all this argument is over. Premier on television last night: But I do not think anybody has totally disassociating himself, ever seriously looked at the denytng it, saying that hE! did not question of can Quebec leave find it acceptabJe or anything Canada? I do not think the hon. else, but you cannot pull back Members opposite believe that that kind of thing onCE! 'i.t 'is Quebec can leave Canada. But. in done. It is already in thE! St. 1 point of fact now, Quebec is doing John s Evening Telegram and 1..ue $28 billion of trade outside have already received phone calls Canada, 75 per cent of that to the from people, frorn the hate Qu (;!l:lE!c United States. The reality is element in St. John 1s, or· in that Quebec today is poised for Newfoundland, that are behind international trade. The FLQ Meech Lake. I Udnk one of l:.h1:! 1 solidarity fund for the last ten cal1s said, Kitchen is ri~Jhton years has been invested in the money, h-oney, 1 and hung up th1:• business with a good future in phone. People believe it does Quebec, all 11.Jith a view to making reflect the p6sition of the sure that if the political climate Government. I had a call frorn in Quebec changes, that Qu_ebec can Vancouver today and it is already separate, which it could not do in the Vancouver papers - what has ten years ago. been said. This is thE:~Minist:er· of Finance of the Province of Now following up from that you Newfound1and and j t. is V~C'ryhard have to ask the question, Will to explain to people in Quebec and Quebec separate? Vancouver that the poor Minister had hoof in mouth disease. It I think the reality of Quebec really is. politics at the moment is that most Quebecers would rather stay SOME HON. MEMBERS: in Canada, and they felt that with Hear, hear! the Meech Accord dealing with a Quebec question, with heavy MS DUFF: emphasis on the un-addressed It is true. There is great damage issues from 1982, that there was done by that kind of statement perhaps a chance for them to be even if it is inadvertent. and accepted within the Canadian unintentional. The quesU.on, too, Confederation, but the political has been raised by some of the reality in Quebec is changing, Members opposite about the partly because of their perception languagE:~rninori ties. I think Mr. of the attitude of some of the Dumaresque was one of the first to English provinces. raise it but it has been raised by other people. The questi.on of thE! I believe this is dangerous and languag(:~rninor·i ties, I 1..uould have therefore the Debate, the to tel1 you, aJ.l thE:' Engl:i.sh

l4-9 April 4-, 1990 Vol XLI No. 1 '7 I~4-')

Some Some

in in

expressed expressed

equality equality L50 L50

rights rights

WeJ.l, WeJ.l,

MS MS

against against

English English

Since Since

protest protest

that that

statement, statement,

that, that,

have have

I I

~ddress ~ddress Meech Meech

AN AN

are are being being

reality. reality. in in

use use

we we greatest greatest

damage damage (Inaudible)

said said

the the

on on

go go

more more

our our

And And

said said

concerned concerned

to to

killing killing

even even

big big Alliance Alliance

Brunswick Brunswick the the

groups groups Lake, Lake,

Franco-Manitobans Franco-Manitobans Lake. Lake. behind behind

wilJ. wilJ.

DUFF: DUFF:

HON. HON.

Members Members

the the

getting getting

this this

it it

into into

us us

I I

future. future.

tuned tuned

in in

depth depth

groups groups

the the

of of

Provine.::~ Provine.::~

voice voice

used used

the the

that that

not not

I I

because because

do do

as as

Lake. Lake.

Charter Charter

for for

believe believe

their their

They They

within within

MEMBER: MEMBER:

Meech Meech

the the

as as

a a

the the

to to

the the

House. House.

April April

that that

Quebec, Quebec,

have have

damage damage

the the

that, that,

can can

Meech Meech

very very

a a

Canada, Canada,

in in

are are

of of

. .

language language

as as

about about

more more

some some

and and

in in

an an

raised raised

Meech Meech

and and

women women

1 1

Meech Meech

Women's Women's

positive positive

Meech Meech

wouJ.d wouJ.d

interests interests

of of

position position

within within

this this

an an

in in

women's women's Lake. Lake.

They They

4, 4,

make make

Acadians Acadians

been been

Quebec Quebec

excuse excuse

loud loud

behind behind

of of

Canada. Canada.

I I

with with

who who

as as

that that

are are

Yet Yet

of of

understanding understanding

that that

would would

Lake Lake

which which

excuse.by excuse.by

1990 1990

more more

concern concern

English English

are are

that. that.

Lake Lake

do do

well. well.

were were

House. House.

Rights Rights

their their

Lake Lake

have have

I I

Lake Lake

feel feel

my my

a a

voice. voice.

minorities minorities

challenged challenged

Rights Rights

it it They They

behind behind

if if particularly, particularly,

the the

do do

QuebE!C. QuebE!C.

stE!p stE!p

is. is.

behind behind

not not

Accord Accord

for for

are are

Meech Meech

depth. depth.

groups, groups,

are are

be be

very very

of of

because because

entrenched entrenched

voice voice

they they

rE!ason rE!ason

not not

they they

is is

and and

does does

rights rights

document, document,

that that

in in

Vol Vol

are are

Equality Equality

national national

done done

women's women's

because because

Members Members

believe believe

that that

forward forward

killing killing

thE! thE!

'Do 'Do

Quebec, Quebec,

solidly solidly

issue, issue,

1982

short short

still still

think think

Meech Meech

Lake, Lake,

XLI XLI

acts acts

look look

very very

have have

much much

have have

than than

not not

the the

New New

not not

th~1 th~1

two two

in in

of of

in in

to to

in in

by by

to to in in

I I

. .

No. No.

world world

MS MS

City City

that that

That That

home, home,

have have

it it

SOME SOME

AN AN

Hear, Hear,

about about

against against

about about

not not gentlemen,

you you

language language

it, it,

use use

our our

Government Government

said, said,

rights rights

(Inaudible)

enli.ghtened enli.ghtened movements movements

by by

feminist feminist most most

in in

that that

advanced advanced

is is

strengths, strengths,

Clause Clause have have

and and

problem problem

confident confident

in in

ME!ech ME!ech

of of

the the

equality equality

Province Province

crossed. crossed.

they they

entrenched entrenched

not not

DUFF: DUFF:

HON. HON.

as as

the the

Rights, Rights,

17 17 one one

Canada, Canada,

the the

Government Government

mention mention

HON. HON.

bE! bE!

politically. politically.

a a

here, here,

Clause Clause

is is

Hall Hall

us us

that that

'i's 'i's

an an

hear! hear!

and and

women's women's

said, said,

Meech Meech

vocal. vocal.

Cause Cause

Lake Lake

beforE! beforE!

2 2

lie lie

distinct distinct

MEMBER

will will

wonderful, wonderful,

just just

of of

Meech Meech

wanted wanted

the the

with with

excuse? excuse?

groups groups

movE!ITlent movE!ITlent

plnovisions plnovisions

of of

courts courts

as as

women women

MEMBERS

enough enough

one one

is is

The The

of of

in in

who who

. .

whPther whPther

but but

is is

in in

has has

dotted dotted

rE!lates rE!lates

the the

2 2

in in

the the

that that

truth. truth.

therE! therE!

Lake, Lake,

equality equality

it it

'We 'We

an an

: :

not not

very very

Meech Meech

could could

Canada, Canada,

r'ights, r'ights,

1 1

half

only only

Lake

of of

are are

one one

as as

Quebec. Quebec.

the the

s s

because because

would would

have have

strongest strongest

Meech Meech

some some

soci~~ty soci~~ty

the the

: :

in in

to to

goes goes

:in :in

excuSE! excuSE!

moVE!rnents. moVE!rnents.

do do

in in

the the

happen, happen,

the the

all all

fond fond

that that

by by

way way

And And

is is

suddenly suddenly

and and

' '

fact fact

in in

possibiLity possibiLity

be be

of of

the the

your your

truth truth

only only

our our

said, said,

My My

Lake Lake

Quebec, Quebec,

overln:idE! overln:idE!

Constitution, Constitution,

of of

not not

Lake Lake

probh~ITlS probh~ITlS

but but

om:issi.on om:issi.on

any any

one one

agatnsl:. agatnsl:.

So So

now now

thE! thE!

enlightened enlightened

interpreted interpreted

legi

possibility possibility

they they

around around

they they

cJ.ausE!, cJ.ausE!,

of of

lead.:'r lead.:'r

the the

political political

that that

the the

And And

to to

thing thing

concerns concerns

rninor'i.ty rninor'i.ty

why why

fernin:ist fernin:ist

dart~ dart~

who who

to to

worried worried

have have

because because

1 1

Accord, Accord, further further

Char'tE!In Char'tE!In

We We

of of

leaves leaves

saying saying

Do Do

lation lation

wanted wanted

using using

whtch whtch

1~50 1~50

votE· votE·

most most

ThE!Y ThE!Y have have

rnos rnos

't's 't's

did did

the the

arE! arE!

our our

not. not.

our our

are are

the the

Lht~ Lht~

we we

or or

al: al:

do do

in in

is is

in in

a a t t

a a

. .

to to

be be

by by

bE! bE!

b~;. b~;.

it it

in in

on on of of

an an

or or

thE! thE!

not not

and and

gut gut

but but

a]] a]]

are are

OHIE' OHIE'

any any

out out

lot lot

. .

RSl RSl

S S

show show

back back

takE! takE!

less less

never never

a a

: :

is is

go go

toward toward

square square

QU(!bE!C QU(!bE!C

I I

my my

me me

because because

happE!nS happE!nS

feeling feeling

Canarla, Canarla,

are are

wi11 wi11

to to

IAJ:i.JJ

no no

who who

would would

be be

l1:!ap l1:!ap

are are

fa1l fa1l

with with

unity, unity,

rnake rnake

after after . .

much much

come come

E!rryland

is is

We We

can can

climate climate

Lake, Lake,

F F

from from

Lakl:! Lakl:!

dar'k dar'k

two. two.

Newfoundland Newfoundland

rhat rhat

gut gut

we we

that that

they they

move move

a a

11 11

process process

to to

depending depending

shown shown

facts facts

tAJi.ll tAJi.ll

alone. alone.

t:he t:he

it it

Canada Canada

tirrtE!. tirrtE!.

we we

wi wi

there there

association association

For For

not not

h h

united united

people people

attempt attempt

of of

c c

again again

if if

HlE! HlE!

back back

Accord Accord

€• €•

it it

or or

now, now,

: :

has has

for for

Canadian Canadian

want want

square square

negative negative

Me Me

MeE!Ch MeE!Ch

by by

Lake. Lake.

in in

that that

go go

will, will,

across across

cl:irnate. cl:irnate.

nE!Xt nE!Xt

honest honest

than than

I I

c:~nd c:~nd

political political

are are

demands, demands,

move move

basis, basis,

could could

to to

ME!rrtbE!r ME!rrtbE!r

think think

this this

believe believe

is is

strong strong

future future

can can

on on

demands demands

difficult difficult

about about

my my

we we

separation separation

MEMBERS

1E!ap 1E!ap

I I

figures figures

togE!ther togE!ther

Meech Meech

the the

Province. Province.

the the

get get

the the

leap leap

Nobody Nobody

tragedy tragedy

a a

we we

sovereignty sovereignty

that that

if if

pJ.ease! pJ.ease!

s s

not not

chasm chasm

the the

a a

1 1

of of

to to

hear! hear!

you. you.

the the

it it

tougher tougher

minimal minimal

HON. HON.

potential potential

possibly possibly

accepting accepting

Speaker, Speaker,

polit:ical polit:ical

third, third,

17 17

POWER: POWER:

han. han.

this this

where where

mal mal

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

very very

on on

is is

. .

that that

do do

t.h t.h

helping helping

concerned concerned

pull pull

pro-Canadians, pro-Canadians, comments comments

the the rescinding rescinding

harder harder

the the

politically politically

I I

either either

it it

shorter shorter a a

going going

that that

Hear, Hear,

outright outright extraordinary extraordinary

No. No.

economic economic

alone. alone.

rnuch rnuch

death death

feeling, feeling,

for for

one one

it it

So So

The The

in in

MR. MR.

Thank Thank

about about

The The

Quebec. Quebec.

OrdE!r, OrdE!r, rnin:l

deap deap

Mr. Mr.

SOME SOME

MR. MR.

me me

Quebec Quebec

within within

I I

a a

bE! bE!

of of

It It

of of

as as

of of

we we

the the

see see

the the

has has

and and

you you

any any

are are

law law

are are

gut gut

why why

Lake Lake

have have

XLI XLI

they they

have have

they they

very very

t.e t.e

there there

years years

we we

would would

and and

should should

action action

Meech, Meech,

months months

it it

article article

I I

we we

two two

qui qui

lot lot

and and

be be

can can

that that

get get

Vol Vol

speaking speaking

and and

your your

be be

when when

hell--bent hell--bent

disparity disparity

but but

would would

rE!SUlt rE!SUlt

Lake Lake

we we

Meech Meech

by by

a a

an an

Meech Meech

can, can,

the the

is is

world, world,

we we

belieV10! belieV10!

as as

of of

But But

was was

some some

a a

can can

around around

things things

Minister Minister

twenty twenty

address. address.

is is

about about

knowledge knowledge

degree degree

reasons reasons

I I

not not

constitutional constitutional

was was

constitutional constitutional

Lessening Lessening

quo, quo,

to to

the the

It It

nobody nobody

today. today.

interpretation. interpretation.

as as

1 1

thE! thE!

it it

one one

thE! thE!

or or

read read

M~!'ech M~!'ech

of of denied, denied,

take take

lAJhich lAJhich

1 1

1990 1990

that that

the the

such such

concerns, concerns,

the the

if if

on on

reasons reasons

fair fair

politics politics

Quebec Quebec

of of

a a

he he

beForE! beForE!

some some

economic economic

matter matter

what what

if if

then. then.

your your

why why

4·, 4·,

make make

not not

we we

that that

not not

a a

written written

also also a a

would would

is is

concern concern

status status

of of

lot lot

To To

mind, mind,

of of

years years

Dark. Dark.

of of

or or

our our

the the

about about

half-way half-way

to to

that that

han. han.

as as

a a

of of

you you

Government Government

be be if if

referred referred

tomorrow tomorrow

called, called,

a a

and and

fails, fails,

years years

get get

MEMBERS: MEMBERS:

my my

when when

since since

fails, fails,

matter matter

April April

says says

of of

one one

debate debate

ten ten

the the

have have

and and

is is

and and

view view

much much

to to

before before

a a

to to

the the

I I

have have

decisions decisions

now now hear! hear!

asked asked

article article

this this

not not

told told

to to

is is

be be

in in

said said

and and

HON. HON.

scenarios, scenarios,

one one

fishery fishery

intE!nt, intE!nt,

in in

future. future.

so so

fifty fifty

Province Province

has has

be be

taking taking

DUFF: DUFF:

LSl LSl

se~iou~ se~iou~

Province, Province,

Leap Leap

Another Another

just just

reform. reform.

have have

been been

by by

But But half-truths half-truths

the the

closure. closure.

three three the the

that that

happened happened

credible credible

students students

Hear, Hear,

partner partner

histotny histotny

or or

that that

think think

to to

Justice Justice

document document

the the

and and It It

being being

is is

Now, Now,

good good

ago ago

yesterday yesterday are are

on on

a a

document document

SOME SOME

MS MS

wi11 wi11 feelings, feelings,

make make

would would

will will which which

LS2 LS2

On On

adjourned adjourned

at at

Social Social

at at April April

House House

MR. MR.

2:00 2:00

Yes, Yes,

MR. MR.

Services Services

believe. believe.

Committee Committee MR. MR.

somebody somebody AN AN

would would

The The

Fisheries Fisheries

I I

Leader. Leader.

agree. agree.

tomorrow, tomorrow,

just just considering considering

. .

9:00, 9:00,

believe believe

motion, motion,

HON. HON.

its its

BAKER: BAKER: Speaker, Speaker,

SPEAKER: SPEAKER:

BAKER: BAKER:

that that

two two

hon. hon.

p.m. p.m.

do do

5, 5,

prefer prefer

MEMBER: MEMBER: Services Services

April April

rising rising

1990 1990

now now

Fisheries Fisheries

verify verify

tomorrow tomorrow

or or

is is

until until

Is Is

sitting sitting

the the

tomorrow tomorrow

there there

the the

if if

in in

adjourn. adjourn.

right. right.

the the

I I

three three

at at

that that

4, 4,

move move

House House

this? this?

to to

tomorrow, tomorrow,

do do

2:00 2:00

Members Members

1990 1990

Government Government

time time

tomorrow tomorrow

the the

is is

morning, morning,

tonight tonight

tonight, tonight,

minutes minutes

correct? correct?

that that

adjourn adjourn

and and

at at

p.m. p.m.

an an

of of

House, House,

its its

the the

that that

Estimates Estimates

Vol Vol

day day

Thursday Thursday

here. here.

Opposite Opposite

left, left,

morning morning

tonight tonight

n.sJ.ng n.sJ.ng

Social Social

until until

Would Would

House House

until until

XLI XLI

with with

the the

I I

No. No.

17 17 RS2 RS2