Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Monday, May 31, 2021 9 a.m. Transcript No. 30-2-2 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Sigurdson, R.J., Highwood (UC), Chair Rutherford, Brad, Leduc-Beaumont (UC), Deputy Chair Ganley, Kathleen T., Calgary-Mountain View (NDP) Glasgo, Michaela L., Brooks-Medicine Hat (UC) Goodridge, Laila, Fort McMurray-Lac La Biche (UC) Hanson, David B., Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul (UC) Milliken, Nicholas, Calgary-Currie (UC) Nielsen, Christian E., Edmonton-Decore (NDP) Orr, Ronald, Lacombe-Ponoka (UC) Rowswell, Garth, Vermilion-Lloydminster-Wainwright (UC) Schmidt, Marlin, Edmonton-Gold Bar (NDP) Sweet, Heather, Edmonton-Manning (NDP) Support Staff Shannon Dean, QC Clerk Teri Cherkewich Law Clerk Trafton Koenig Senior Parliamentary Counsel Vani Govindarajan Legal Counsel Philip Massolin Clerk Assistant and Director of House Services Michael Kulicki Clerk of Committees and Research Services Sarah Amato Research Officer Melanie Niemi-Bohun Research Officer Nancy Robert Clerk of Journals and Research Officer Warren Huffman Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Aaron Roth Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications Janet Laurie Supervisor of Corporate Communications Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Michael Nguyen Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Janet Schwegel Director of Parliamentary Programs Amanda LeBlanc Deputy Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard May 31, 2021 Real Property Rights RP-9 9 a.m. Monday, May 31, 2021 your microphone when not speaking. Members participating Title: Monday, May 31, 2021 rp virtually who wish to be placed on a speakers list are asked to e- [Mr. Sigurdson in the chair] mail or send a message in the group chat to the committee clerk, and members in the room are asked to please signal the chair. Please The Chair: Good morning. I’d like to call this meeting of the Select set your cellphones and other devices to silent for the duration of Special Committee on Real Property Rights to order and welcome the meeting. everyone in attendance. Approval of the agenda. Are there any changes or additions to the My name is R.J. Sigurdson, MLA for Highwood and chair of the draft agenda? If not, would somebody like to make a motion to committee. I’d ask that members and those joining the committee approve the agenda as submitted? MLA Rowswell. Moved by MLA at the table introduce themselves for the record, and then I will call Rowswell that the agenda for the May 31, 2021, meeting of the on those joining in by videoconference. I will begin to my right. Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights be adopted as distributed. All those in favour? On videoconference? All those Mr. Rutherford: Brad Rutherford, MLA, Leduc-Beaumont. opposed? Thank you. That motion is carried. Ms Goodridge: Laila Goodridge, MLA, Fort McMurray-Lac La Approval of the minutes. Next we have the draft minutes of our Biche. May 17, 2021, meeting. Are there any errors or omissions to note? If not, would a member like to make a motion to approve the Mr. Orr: Ron Orr, Lacombe-Ponoka. minutes? MLA Milliken. Moved by MLA Milliken that the minutes of the May 17, 2021, meeting of the Select Special Committee on Mr. Rowswell: Garth Rowswell, Vermilion-Lloydminster- Real Property Rights be approved as distributed. All those in Wainwright. favour? On videoconference? All those opposed? Thank you. That motion is carried. Mr. Milliken: Nicholas Milliken, MLA, Calgary-Currie. Item 4, business arising from the report of the subcommittee on committee business, (a) recommendations relating to the scope of Mr. Schmidt: Marlin Schmidt, Edmonton-Gold Bar. the review. Hon. members, the subcommittee on committee Ms Sweet: Heather Sweet, MLA, Edmonton-Manning. business met on Thursday, May 20, to discuss how the committee may want to conduct its review. A report of the subcommittee’s Mr. Nielsen: Good morning, everyone. Chris Nielsen, MLA for recommendations to the committee has been distributed to Edmonton-Decore. members. Do any members have any comments about the subcommittee’s Mr. Kulicki: Good morning. Michael Kulicki, clerk of committees recommendations relating to the scope of the committee’s review? and research services. MLA Rutherford. Mr. Huffman: Good morning. Warren Huffman, committee clerk. Mr. Rutherford: Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that, and good morning, everybody. I’d like to move a motion if I could, Chair. The Chair: Then by videoconference we have MLA Ganley. The Chair: Please go ahead. Ms Ganley: Good morning. Kathleen Ganley, MLA for Calgary- Mountain View. Mr. Rutherford: It’s motion 1. I move that the Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights approve The Chair: As well, we have MLA Glasgo. the recommendation pertaining to section 3.1 of the subcommittee on committee business May 20, 2021, report: that Ms Glasgo: Good morning. Michaela Glasgo, MLA, Brooks- the committee scope be kept broad within the bounds of the given Medicine Hat. mandate and the review of Bill 206 and that the subcommittee be provided an opportunity at a future meeting, after the technical The Chair: And, finally, MLA Hanson. briefings are held, to provide additional recommendations with respect to other matters the committee may wish to consider as Mr. Hanson: MLA David Hanson, Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul. part of its mandate. I think that this motion keeps us within the bounds of the The Chair: Thank you. government motion on Bill 206, which is important. It is broad A few housekeeping items to address before we turn to the already in its scope, but we are not limiting ourselves as we get business at hand. Pursuant to the February 22, 2021, memo from feedback later on in this process. the hon. Speaker Cooper I would remind everyone of the updated Thank you. committee room protocols, which encourage members to wear masks in committee rooms and while seated except when speaking, The Chair: Thank you. at which time they may choose not to wear a face covering. Based Are there any further questions or comments relating to the on the recommendations from the chief medical officer of health motion? MLA Schmidt. regarding physical distancing, attendees at today’s meeting are reminded to leave the appropriate distance between themselves and Mr. Schmidt: Yeah. Thank you. I do agree with Member other meeting participants. Rutherford that it will be important to keep the mandate of this Please note that the microphones are operated by Hansard staff. committee broad, and I appreciate that the motion that he’s brought Committee proceedings are live streamed on the Internet and forward for us to consider does that. However, you know, looking broadcast on Alberta Assembly TV. The audio- and videostream down the agenda and at some of the motions that are going to be and transcripts of meetings can be accessed via the Legislative considered by the committee earlier this afternoon, I’m afraid that Assembly website. Those participating by videoconference are the government is not sincere in its desire to keep the mandate of asked to please turn on your camera while speaking and to mute this committee broad. RP-10 Real Property Rights May 31, 2021 You know, we’ve heard from many property owners about a subcommittee on committee business May 20, 2021, report and whole host of issues that affect their property rights, not just the (a) invite the following ministries to provide technical briefings issues in Bill 206 but issues around surface rights, water rights, to the committee on specific legislation and issues as they relate issues pertaining to coal development, oil and gas leases, to the mandate of the committee and the agreed-upon focus areas: (1) Justice and Solicitor General abandoned well cleanup, grazing leases, a whole host of issues. It (2) Energy goes on and on. The motion is worded so that after the technical (3) Environment and Parks briefings are held, the subcommittee can review the mandate and (4) Agriculture and Forestry propose any changes to the mandate. My fear is that the technical (5) Indigenous Relations briefings are going to be so limited in scope that the members of the (6) Transportation committee won’t have the information given to them by the (7) Municipal Affairs ministries that we are going to invite to discuss issues around (8) Service Alberta, property rights to give the members enough information as to know and (b) request that these ministries provide written materials to where to go from here. the committee prior to their presentations. I challenge all members of the government to live up to the Mr. Chair, I think that, starting with point (b), having information ahead of time will allow the committee to formulate questions and commitment that it made by bringing forward this motion to keep to develop a perspective on issues that we are going to receive in the mandate broad, to also keep the rest of the work that we’re going these briefings. I think that is important. Also, the areas of focus to agree on today broad and not limit the scope of the technical identified by the subcommittee provide direction to the briefings that we’re going to be discussing later in the agenda. departments; however, they are not constraining the departments The Chair: Thank you. either. With eight ministries, I think we’ll have robust feedback MLA Orr, please go ahead. from them that will help us in our decision-making. Mr. Orr: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a difficult balancing The Chair: Next I have MLA Ganley. Please, MLA Ganley, go act, and while I agree that there are all kinds of issues out there, ahead.