New South Wales

Legislative Council

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Fifty-Seventh Parliament First Session

Tuesday, 25 February 2020

Authorised by the Parliament of

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Bills ...... 4201 Fines Amendment Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2019...... 4201 Right to Farm Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Water Supply (Critical Needs) Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Music Festivals Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Electoral Funding Amendment (Local Government Expenditure Caps) Bill 2019...... 4201 Transport Administration Amendment (RMS Dissolution) Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Justice Legislation Amendment Bill (No 2) 2019 ...... 4201 Road Transport Amendment (Miscellaneous) Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Electoral Funding Amendment (Cash Donations) Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Better Regulation Legislation Amendment Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Gambling Legislation Amendment (Online and Other Betting) Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Children's Guardian Bill 2019 ...... 4201 Assent ...... 4201 Governor ...... 4201 Administration of the Government ...... 4201 Appointments ...... 4201 Usher of the Black Rod ...... 4201 Governor ...... 4201 Administration of the Government ...... 4201 Documents ...... 4202 Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission ...... 4202 Reports ...... 4202 Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission ...... 4202 Reports ...... 4202 Law Enforcement Conduct Commission ...... 4202 Reports ...... 4202 Office of the Children's Guardian ...... 4202 Reports ...... 4202 Ombudsman ...... 4202 Reports ...... 4202 Ageing and Disability Commissioner ...... 4203 Reports ...... 4203 Inspector of the Independent Commission Against Corruption ...... 4203 Reports ...... 4203 Inspector of Custodial Services ...... 4203 Reports ...... 4203 Tabled Papers not Ordered to be Printed ...... 4203 Tabling of Papers ...... 4204 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Committees ...... 4204 Legislation Review Committee ...... 4204 Reports ...... 4204 Selection of Bills Committee ...... 4204 Reports ...... 4204 Documents ...... 4204 Papers Presented Out of Session ...... 4204 Auditor-General ...... 4205 Reports ...... 4205 Committees ...... 4205 Portfolio Committee No. 3 - Education ...... 4205 Report: Measurement and Outcome-based Funding in NSW Schools ...... 4205 Extension of Reporting Date ...... 4206 Report: Measurement and Outcome-based Funding in NSW Schools ...... 4206 Documents ...... 4206 NSW Police Force ...... 4206 Return to Order ...... 4206 Claim of Privilege ...... 4206 SafeWork NSW ...... 4206 Return to Order ...... 4206 School Air Conditioning ...... 4206 Return to Order ...... 4206 Claim of Privilege ...... 4206 Transport Asbestos Registers ...... 4206 Return to Order ...... 4206 Claim of Privilege ...... 4206 Monash University Road Safety Documents ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Western Harbour Tunnel and Beaches Link ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Mascot Towers ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Victims Services ...... 4207 Claim of Privilege ...... 4207 Early Childhood Education ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Barwon-Darling Water Sharing Plan ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Claim of Privilege ...... 4207 Warragamba Dam ...... 4207 Return to Order ...... 4207 Parramatta Light Rail ...... 4208 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Return to Order ...... 4208 Claim of Privilege ...... 4208 Urban Planning and Population Density ...... 4208 Return to Order ...... 4208 Claim of Privilege ...... 4208 Transport Asbestos Registers ...... 4208 Correspondence ...... 4208 Building Cladding Register ...... 4208 Report of Independent Legal Arbiter ...... 4208 Ministerial Code of Conduct ...... 4208 Report of Independent Legal Arbiter ...... 4208 Petitions ...... 4209 Responses to Petitions ...... 4209 Visitors ...... 4209 Visitors ...... 4209 Business of the House ...... 4209 Withdrawal of Business ...... 4209 Notices ...... 4209 Presentation ...... 4209 Documents ...... 4209 Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission ...... 4209 Reports ...... 4209 Business of the House ...... 4210 Postponement of Business ...... 4210 Members ...... 4210 Parliamentary Secretaries ...... 4210 Representation of Government in the Legislative Council ...... 4210 Committees ...... 4211 Public Accountability Committee ...... 4211 Membership ...... 4211 Portfolio Committee No. 6 - Transport and Customer Service ...... 4211 Membership ...... 4211 Standing Committee on Law and Justice ...... 4211 Membership ...... 4211 Portfolio Committee No. 4 - Industry ...... 4211 Extension of Reporting Date ...... 4211 Standing Committee on Social Issues ...... 4212 Extension of Reporting Date ...... 4212 Portfolio Committee No. 4 - Industry ...... 4212 Reference ...... 4212 Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health ...... 4212 Reference ...... 4212 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health ...... 4213 Reference ...... 4213 Portfolio Committee No. 3 - Education ...... 4213 Reference ...... 4213 Announcements ...... 4214 Department of the Legislative Council ...... 4214 Rulings ...... 4214 Production of Documents ...... 4214 Questions Without Notice ...... 4215 Willow Grove Heritage Building ...... 4215 Bushfires ...... 4216 Willow Grove Heritage Building ...... 4217 Bushfires and Threatened Species ...... 4218 Bushfires and Schools ...... 4218 Bushfires and Forestry Industry ...... 4219 Willow Grove Heritage Building ...... 4219 Bushfires and Mental Health Services ...... 4220 Duck Hunting ...... 4221 Bushfires and Youth Mental Health Services ...... 4221 Bushfires and Small Business ...... 4222 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4222 Independent Commission Against Corruption Investigations ...... 4224 Bushfires and the Public Service ...... 4224 Greyhound Welfare Integrity Commission...... 4224 Independent Commission Against Corruption ...... 4225 Bushfires and Schools ...... 4225 Questions Without Notice: Take Note ...... 4226 Take Note of Answers to Questions ...... 4226 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4226 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4227 Bushfires ...... 4227 Willow Grove Heritage Building ...... 4227 Bushfires and Mental Health Services ...... 4227 Bushfires and Small Business ...... 4228 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4228 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4228 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4229 Batemans Marine Park ...... 4229 School Student Assessment Results ...... 4230 Take Note of Answers to Questions ...... 4230 Deferred Answers ...... 4230 State Budget and Rural Fire Service ...... 4230 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Bushfires and National Parks ...... 4231 Bushfires and Building Cladding Safety ...... 4231 Q Fever ...... 4231 State Budget Submissions ...... 4231 Educational Facilities Standards and Guidelines ...... 4232 Schools Drought Assistance Package ...... 4232 Fire Hazard Reduction Contractors ...... 4238 Greyhound Racing Industry ...... 4238 Regional Early Childhood Education ...... 4238 Commercial Fishing Industry ...... 4239 NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service ...... 4239 Schools Asbestos Management Plan ...... 4239 Stockton Beach ...... 4239 Schools Asbestos Management Plan ...... 4239 Schools Asbestos Management Plan ...... 4240 Oak Flats High School ...... 4240 Public School Suspensions ...... 4240 NSW Health Data ...... 4241 Public School Infrastructure ...... 4241 Aerial Firefighting ...... 4241 NSW Police Force Strip Search Practices ...... 4241 Distance Education ...... 4242 Firearms Registry ...... 4242 Students and Social Media ...... 4242 Early Childhood Education ...... 4243 Bushfires and National Parks ...... 4243 Metro Northwest ...... 4243 Sydney Water ...... 4244 Armidale Secondary College ...... 4244 Dolphin Marine Conservation Park ...... 4244 Former Member for Goulburn ...... 4244 School Playgrounds ...... 4244 School Enrolment Policy ...... 4245 Former Member for Goulburn ...... 4245 Written Answers to Supplementary Questions ...... 4245 School Enrolment Policy ...... 4245 Business of the House ...... 4245 Suspension of Standing and Sessional Orders ...... 4245 Motions ...... 4245 Bushfires ...... 4245 Visitors ...... 4252 Visitors ...... 4252 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Motions ...... 4252 Bushfires ...... 4252 Rulings ...... 4255 Offensive Words in Motions ...... 4255 Motions ...... 4255 Bushfires ...... 4255 Adjournment Debate ...... 4270 Adjournment ...... 4270 Bushfires ...... 4270 Jetstar Workers ...... 4271 Water Theft ...... 4271 Regional New South Wales ...... 4272 Canine Court Companion Program ...... 4273 Chinese Community ...... 4273

Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4201

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Tuesday, 25 February 2020

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT AND CHAIR OF COMMITTEES (The Hon. ), in the absence of the President, took the chair at 14:30. The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES read the prayers. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) acknowledged the Gadigal clan of the Eora nation and its elders and thanked them for their custodianship of this land. Bills FINES AMENDMENT BILL 2019 STATUTE LAW (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL 2019 RIGHT TO FARM BILL 2019 WATER SUPPLY (CRITICAL NEEDS) BILL 2019 MUSIC FESTIVALS BILL 2019 ELECTORAL FUNDING AMENDMENT (LOCAL GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE CAPS) BILL 2019 TRANSPORT ADMINISTRATION AMENDMENT (RMS DISSOLUTION) BILL 2019 JUSTICE LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL (NO 2) 2019 ROAD TRANSPORT AMENDMENT (MISCELLANEOUS) BILL 2019 ELECTORAL FUNDING AMENDMENT (CASH DONATIONS) BILL 2019 BETTER REGULATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2019 GAMBLING LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (ONLINE AND OTHER BETTING) BILL 2019 CHILDREN'S GUARDIAN BILL 2019 Assent The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I report receipt of messages from the Governor notifying Her Excellency's assent to the bills. Governor ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I report receipt of a message regarding the administration of the Government. Appointments USHER OF THE BLACK ROD The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) (14:33:24): I inform the House that on 22 January His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor, with the advice of the Executive Council, appointed Ms Jenelle Moore as Usher of the Black Rod on and from 28 January 2020. I also inform the House that a commission has been issued in favour of Ms Moore, who made the pledge of allegiance and took the oath of office before Her Excellency the Governor on 17 February 2020 at Government House. Governor ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I report receipt of a message regarding the administration of the Government. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4202

Documents INSPECTOR OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCT COMMISSION Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission Act 2016, I table Special Report 20/01 of the Assistant Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission entitled A report dealing with a complaint by the Commissioner for Oversight of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission against the Chief Commissioner, dated December 2019, received out of session on 3 December 2019. The Hon. : By leave: I move: That the report not be considered public and be made available to members of the Legislative Council only. Motion agreed to. INSPECTOR OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCT COMMISSION Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission Act 2016, I table the report of the Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission entitled Annual Report 2018-2019 Law Enforcement (Controlled Operations) Act 1997, dated November 2019, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 25 November 2019. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCT COMMISSION Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission Act 2016, I table the following reports of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission: (1) Report entitled An investigation into the formulation and use of the NSW Police Force Suspect Targeting Management Plan on children and young people: Operation Tepito Interim Report, dated January 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. (2) Report entitled Review of NSW Police Force Standard Operating Procedures for strip searches in custody, dated January 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. OFFICE OF THE CHILDREN'S GUARDIAN Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Electoral Act 2017, I table the following reports of the Office of the Children's Guardian: (1) Report entitled Investigation into child protection declarations made by elected members of the NSW Legislative Council, dated 20 November 2019, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 25 November 2019. (2) Report entitled Further report into the investigation into child protection declarations made by elected members of the NSW Legislative Council, dated 18 February 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 20 February 2020. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. OMBUDSMAN Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I table the following reports: Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4203

(1) Public Interest Disclosures Act 1994 and the Ombudsman Act 1974—Report entitled Oversight of the Public Interest Disclosures Act 1994 Annual Report 2018-19, dated 19 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 19 December 2019. (2) Ombudsman Act 1974—Erratum to the report of the Ombudsman for year ended 30 June 2018, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 24 February 2020. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. AGEING AND DISABILITY COMMISSIONER Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Ageing and Disability Commissioner Act 2019, I table a report of the Ageing and Disability Commissioner entitled Review into Disability Advocacy in NSW, dated 19 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 19 December 2019. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. INSPECTOR OF THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act 1988, I table a report of the Inspector of the Independent Commission Against Corruption entitled Report pursuant to sections 57B(5) and 77A of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act 1988 concerning an audit under section 57B(1)(d) thereof into the Independent Commission Against Corruption's procedures for dealing with counsel assisting in investigations and inquiries under Part 4 of the Act (Special Report 20/02), dated December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 19 December 2019. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. INSPECTOR OF CUSTODIAL SERVICES Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to the Inspector of Custodial Services Act 2012, I table the following reports of the Inspector of Custodial Services: (1) Report entitled Women on Remand, dated February 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. (2) Report entitled Inspection of Five Minimum Security Correctional Centres in Non-Metropolitan NSW, dated February 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. (3) Report entitled Programs, Employment and Education Inspection, dated February 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. (4) Report entitled Inspection of the Residential Facilities and the Compulsory Drug Treatment Correctional Centre, dated February 2020, received out of session and authorised to be made public on 13 February 2020. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. TABLED PAPERS NOT ORDERED TO BE PRINTED The Hon. DON HARWIN: According to Standing Order 59, I table a list of papers tabled and not ordered to be printed since 12 November 2019. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4204

TABLING OF PAPERS The Hon. DON HARWIN: I table the following papers: (1) Correspondence addressed to the Clerk from the Hon. David Elliott, MP, Minister for Police and Emergency Services, dated 23 January 2020, attaching new data, received from the NSW Police Force, relating to question on notice No. 333 from Mr . (2) Report of the Government entitled NSW Annual Report on Progress: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, dated December 2019. I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. Committees LEGISLATION REVIEW COMMITTEE Reports The Hon. : I table the report of the Legislation Review Committee entitled Legislation Review Digest No. 10/57, dated 24 February 2020. I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE Reports The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES: I table report No. 29 of the Selection of Bills Committee, dated 25 February 2020. I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES: I move: That the following bills not be referred to a standing committee for inquiry and report this day: (a) Water (Commonwealth Powers) Amendment (Termination of References) Bill 2019. (b) Independent Commission Against Corruption Amendment (Protections for Disclosure of Information) Bill 2019. Motion agreed to. Documents PAPERS PRESENTED OUT OF SESSION The CLERK: I announce receipt of the following reports presented since the last sitting of the House: (1) Agricultural Scientific Collections Trust Act 1983–– (a) Financial Statements of the Agricultural Scientific Collections Trust for the year ending 30 June 2017. (b) Financial Statements of the Agricultural Scientific Collections Trust for the year ending 30 June 2018. (c) Financial Statements of the Agricultural Scientific Collections Trust for the year ending 30 June 2019. (2) Annual Reports (Departments) Act 1985––Erratum to the Report of the Department of Justice for the year ended 30 June 2019. (3) Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984–– (a) Report of the Administration of Agricultural Statutory Authorities for the year ended 30 June 2018, together with a statement of reasons for lateness. (b) Report of the Administration of Agricultural Statutory Authorities for the year ended 30 June 2019. (c) Report of the Wine Grapes Marketing Board for the year ended 31 December 2018, together with a statement of reasons for lateness. (4) Community Services (Complaints, Reviews and Monitoring) Act 1993––Report of the Official Community Visitors for the year ended 30 June 2019. (5) Law and Justice Foundation Act 2000 (NSW)—Report of Law and Justice Foundation for the year ended 30 June 2019. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4205

(6) Legal Profession Uniform Application Act 2014—Report of Law Society of New South Wales for the year ended 30 June 2019, incorporating the Professional Standards Department annual report and financial statements for the following entities: Legal Practitioners Fidelity Fund, Public Purpose Fund. (7) Local Government Act 1993 and Royal Commission Act 1923— (a) Report of the Office of Local Government entitled Balranald Shire Council Public Inquiry, dated 25 November 2019. (b) Report of the Office of Local Government entitled Public inquiry into the Blue Mountains City Council, Interim Report: Terms of Reference 3, and Terms of Reference 6 and 8 (excluding asbestos issues), dated 14 January 2020. (8) National Energy Retail Law (NSW)––Reports of the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal: (a) Report entitled Review of the performance and competitiveness of the NSW retail electricity market 2018-19—Final Report, dated November 2019. (b) Report entitled Review of the performance and competitiveness of the NSW retail gas market 2018-19—Final Report, dated November 2019. (9) Public Defenders Act 1995—Report of Public Defenders for year ended 30 June 2019. (10) Radiation Control Act 1990––Report of Radiation Advisory Council for year ended 30 June 2019. (11) Transport Administration Act 1988 and Passenger Transport Act 1990––Reports of the Office of Transport Safety Investigations: (a) Report entitled Bus safety investigation report: Bus Fires in New South Wales in 2019. (b) Report entitled Bus Safety Investigation Report: Driver Trainer Fatality Prairiewood, NSW, dated 7 June 2019. (c) Report entitled Ferry Safety Investigation Report: Ferry Freshwater Collisions Wharves 4 and 5 Circular Quay, NSW, dated 4 January 2018. (d) Report entitled Rail Safety Investigation Report: Partial Volume Deflagration in Traction Inverter Module on Carriage N5508 Waratah A set, Burwood, NSW, dated 20 March 2017. (e) Report entitled Train Services Operated through Bushfire Affected Section of Track, Locality of Holsworthy, NSW, dated 14 April 2018. AUDITOR-GENERAL Reports The CLERK: According to the Public Finance and Audit Act 1983, I announce receipt of the following reports of the Auditor-General: (1) Financial Audit report entitled Transport 2019, dated 28 November 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 28 November 2019. (2) Financial Audit report entitled Stronger Communities 2019, dated 5 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 5 December 2019. (3) Financial Audit report entitled Education 2019, dated 10 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 10 December 2019. (4) Financial Audit report entitled Planning, Industry and Environment 2019, dated 11 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 11 December 2019. (5) Financial Audit report entitled Central Agencies 2019, dated 12 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 12 December 2019. (6) Special report entitled Members' additional entitlements, dated 12 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 12 December 2019. (7) Performance Audit report entitled Supporting the District Criminal Court, dated 18 December 2019, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 18 December 2019. Committees PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 3 - EDUCATION Report: Measurement and Outcome-based Funding in NSW Schools The CLERK: According to standing order, I announce receipt of report No. 40 of Portfolio Committee No. 3 - Education entitled Measurement and outcome-based funding in New South Wales schools—Informed by the Data: Evidence-based education in NSW, dated 18 February 2020, together with transcripts of evidence, submissions, tabled documents, answers to questions on notice, supplementary questions, material provided during site visits and correspondence, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 18 February 2020. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4206

Extension of Reporting Date The Hon. (14:45:39): Before moving a take-note debate motion on this report, I inform the House that on 29 November 2019 Portfolio Committee No. 3 – Education resolved to extend the reporting date for its inquiry into measurement and outcome-based funding in New South Wales schools to 28 February 2020. Report: Measurement and Outcome-based Funding in NSW Schools The Hon. MARK LATHAM (14:46:00): I move: That the House take note of the report. Debate adjourned. Documents NSW POLICE FORCE Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding police documents requested in budget estimates, received on 28 November 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. SAFEWORK NSW Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Wednesday 20 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding SafeWork NSW, received on 2 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. SCHOOL AIR CONDITIONING Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding the Cooler Classrooms Program, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. TRANSPORT ASBESTOS REGISTERS Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding transport asbestos registers, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4207

MONASH UNIVERSITY ROAD SAFETY DOCUMENTS Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table correspondence relating to an order for papers regarding documents prepared by Monash University in relation to road safety, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, stating that the relevant departments hold no documents covered by the terms of the resolution. WESTERN HARBOUR TUNNEL AND BEACHES LINK Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table correspondence relating to an order for papers regarding Western Harbour Tunnel and Beaches Link business cases, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, stating that the relevant departments hold no documents covered by the terms of the resolution. MASCOT TOWERS Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding Mascot Towers documents prepared by the NSW Building Commissioner, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. VICTIMS SERVICES Claim of Privilege The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 21 November 2019, I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 21 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding early childhood education, received on 5 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. BARWON-DARLING WATER SHARING PLAN Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 14 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding Barwon-Darling Water Sharing Plan review, received on 12 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. WARRAGAMBA DAM Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 21 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding the proposal to raise the Warragamba Dam wall, received on 12 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4208

PARRAMATTA LIGHT RAIL Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 21 November 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding Parramatta Light Rail Project (Stage Two), received on 13 December 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. URBAN PLANNING AND POPULATION DENSITY Return to Order The CLERK: According to the resolution of the House of Thursday 8 August 2019, I table documents relating to an order for papers regarding urban planning and population density, received on 11 February 2019 from the Secretary of the Department of Premier and Cabinet, together with an indexed list of documents. Claim of Privilege The CLERK: I table a return identifying those of the documents that are claimed to be privileged and should not be tabled or made public. I advise that pursuant to standing orders the documents are available for inspection by members of the Legislative Council only. TRANSPORT ASBESTOS REGISTERS Correspondence The CLERK: I inform the House that, following receipt of correspondence from the Hon. dated 17 December 2019 relating to the return to order regarding the transport asbestos registers, I wrote to the General Counsel at the Department of Premier and Cabinet seeking information in response to the matter raised by the Hon. Mark Buttigieg and other matters. I further advise that a letter of response was received from the General Counsel dated 24 February 2020. Correspondence tabled. BUILDING CLADDING REGISTER Report of Independent Legal Arbiter The CLERK: I announce receipt of the report of the Independent Legal Arbiter, the Hon. Keith Mason, AC, QC, dated 13 December 2019, on the disputed claim of privilege on papers relating to the register of buildings with potentially combustible cladding. Further to the resolution of the House of 24 October 2019 which authorised the Privileges Committee, whilst the House was not sitting, to undertake the role usually performed by the House in dealing with reports of the Independent Legal Arbiter on disputed claims of privilege, the report was referred to the committee on 13 December 2019. I further announce that on 16 December 2019 the Privileges Committee resolved that the report by the Independent Legal Arbiter be made public that day. According to resolution of the House, the report is deemed to have been presented to the House and published by authority of the House. MINISTERIAL CODE OF CONDUCT Report of Independent Legal Arbiter The CLERK: I announce receipt of the report of the Independent Legal Arbiter, the Hon. Keith Mason, AC, QC, dated 17 December 2019, on the disputed claim of privilege on papers relating to the Premier's rulings in relation to disclosures under the Ministerial Code of Conduct. Further to the resolution of the House of 24 October 2019 which authorised the Privileges Committee, whilst the House was not sitting, to undertake the role usually performed by the House in dealing with reports of the Independent Legal Arbiter on disputed claims of privilege, the report was referred to the committee on 17 December 2019. I further announce that on 31 January 2020 the Privileges Committee resolved that the report by the Independent Legal Arbiter be made public that day. According to resolution of the House, the report is deemed to have been presented to the House and published by authority of the House. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4209

Petitions RESPONSES TO PETITIONS The CLERK: According to sessional order, I announce receipt of the following Government responses to petitions signed by more than 500 persons: (1) Government response from the Hon. Mark Speakman, MP, Attorney General, to a petition presented by Mr Shoebridge on 22 October 2019 concerning a request for a parliamentary inquiry into the death of Thomas Hickey, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 27 November 2019. (2) Government response from the Hon. Shelley Hancock, MP, Minister for Local Government, to a petition presented by Ms Boyd on 13 November 2019 concerning retired companion greyhounds, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 13 December 2019. (3) Government response from the Hon. Rob Stokes, MP, Minister for Planning and Public Spaces, to a petition presented by Mr Field on 13 November 2019 concerning sand mining at Minnamurra River, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 18 December 2019.

(4) Government response from the Hon. Rob Stokes, MP, Minister for Planning and Public Spaces, to a petition presented by Ms Boyd on 21 November 2019 concerning the Wallarah 2 coalmine and Central Coast drinking water, received out of session and authorised to be printed on 19 December 2019. The CLERK: The responses have been authorised to be printed. Visitors VISITORS The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I welcome to the public gallery Mrs Graham, mother of the Hon. John Graham. I report, Mrs Graham, that he is generally well behaved! I welcome to the gallery students and teachers from St Joseph's College, Lochinvar, which is in the Maitland electorate, being year 10 commerce students, years 11 and 12 legal studies students and years 11 and 12 society and culture students. Business of the House WITHDRAWAL OF BUSINESS The Hon. MARK LATHAM: I withdraw private member's business item No. 107 outside the order of precedence standing in my name on the Notice Paper for today relating to the Anti-Discrimination Amendment (Religious Freedoms) Bill 2019. [During the giving of notices of motions] Notices PRESENTATION The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): There were too many interjections during what was a lengthy notice of motion. I direct that comment at, amongst others, the Hon. and the Hon. Natalie Ward. While I will not call members to order, I encourage them to stop interjecting. The Hon. Ben Franklin: Point of order: My point of order is to the notice of motion given by the Hon. Mark Buttigieg and the use of the words "liar" or "lying" twice within it. I ask you to consider whether that is an appropriate use of language in the House. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Indeed I had wondered about that. I will reserve my decision on that matter. Documents INSPECTOR OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDUCT COMMISSION Reports The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Further to the tabling of Special Report 20/01 of the Assistant Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission entitled A report dealing with a complaint by the Commissioner for Oversight of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission against the Chief Commissioner, dated December 2019, I table a corrected version of the report along with correspondence from the Inspector of the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report and correspondence be printed. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4210

Motion agreed to. Business of the House POSTPONEMENT OF BUSINESS The Hon. : I move: That business of the House notice of motion No. 2 be postponed until the next sitting day. Motion agreed to. Ms : I move: That business of the House notice of motion No. 1 be postponed until 6 May 2020. Motion agreed to. Members PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES The Hon. DON HARWIN: I inform the House that on 20 December 2019 the following appointment was made in relation to persons holding office as Parliamentary Secretary: Mr Adam Crouch, MP Parliamentary Secretary for the Central Coast REPRESENTATION OF GOVERNMENT IN THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL The Hon. DON HARWIN: I inform the House of changes in the representation of Government responsibilities in this Chamber. I shall act in respect of my own portfolios of Special Minister of State, and Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and I will represent the following Ministers in the other House in respect of the following portfolios: The Hon. Gladys Berejiklian, MP Premier The Hon. Paul Lawrence Toole, MP Minister for Regional Transport and Roads The Hon. Andrew James Constance, MP Minister for Transport and Roads The Hon. Shelley Elizabeth Hancock, MP Minister for Local Government The Hon. Matthew John Kean, MP Minister for Energy and Environment I further advise the House that the Hon. , MLC, Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning, will act in respect of her own portfolio as well as represent the following Ministers in the other House in respect of the following portfolios: The Hon. (John) Giovanni Domenic Barilaro, MP Deputy Premier, Minister for Regional New South Wales, Industry and Trade The Hon. Mark Raymond Speakman, SC, MP Attorney General, and Minister for the Prevention of Domestic Violence The Hon. Gareth James Ward, MP Minister for Families, Communities and Disability Services The Hon. Anthony John Roberts, MP Minister for Counter Terrorism and Corrections The Hon. Dr Geoffrey Lee, MP Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education. I further advise the House that the Hon. Bronwyn Taylor, MLC, Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women, will act in respect of her own portfolio and will represent the following Ministers in the other House in respect of the following portfolios: The Hon. Bradley Ronald Hazzard, MP Minister for Health and Medical Research The Hon. Robert Gordon Stokes, MP Minister for Planning and Public Spaces The Hon. Melinda Jane Pavey, MP Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4211

Minister for Water, Property and Housing The Hon. Anthony John Sidoti, MP Minister for Sport, Multiculturalism, Seniors and Veterans The Hon. Adam John Marshall, MP Minister for Agriculture and Western New South Wales. I further advise the House that the Hon. Damien Francis Tudehope, MLC, Minister for Finance and Small Business, will act in respect of his own portfolio and will represent the following Ministers in the other House in respect of the following portfolios: The Hon. Dominic Francis Perrottet, MP Treasurer The Hon. Victor Michael Dominello, MP Minister for Customer Service The Hon. Stuart Laurence Ayres, MP Minister for Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney The Hon. Kevin John Anderson, MP Minister for Better Regulation and Innovation The Hon. David Andrew Elliott, MP Minister for Police and Emergency Services. I note that questions already on the Questions and Answers paper will be answered by the Ministers responsible at the time the questions were asked. The new representation arrangements will take effect from question time today. Committees PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY COMMITTEE Membership The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I inform the House that on 31 January 2020 the Clerk received advice from the Leader of the Government of the following change to membership of the committee: Ms Ward in place of Mr Farlow. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 6 - TRANSPORT AND CUSTOMER SERVICE Membership The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I inform the House that on 31 January 2020 the Clerk received advice from the Leader of the Government of the following change to membership of the committee: Mr Farlow in place of Ms Cusack. STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW AND JUSTICE Membership The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I inform the House that on 31 January 2020 the Clerk received advice from the Leader of the Government of the following change to membership of the committee: Ms Cusack in place of Ms Ward. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 4 - INDUSTRY Extension of Reporting Date The Hon. MARK BANASIAK: I inform the House that on 3 December 2019 Portfolio Committee No. 4 - Industry resolved to extend the reporting date for its inquiry into the implementation of the recommendations contained in the NSW Chief Scientist and Engineer's independent review of coal seam gas activities in New South Wales to 28 February 2020. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4212

STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL ISSUES Extension of Reporting Date The Hon. : I inform the House that on 6 February 2020 the Standing Committee on Social Issues resolved to extend the reporting date for its inquiry into the Modern Slavery Act 2018 and associated matters to 28 February 2020. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 4 - INDUSTRY Reference The Hon. MARK BANASIAK: I inform the House that in accordance with the resolution of the House relating to the establishment of portfolio committees, on 3 December 2019 Portfolio Committee No. 4 - Industry resolved to adopt the following terms of reference: That, on completion of the inquiry into the exhibition of exotic animals in circuses and exhibition of cetaceans in New South Wales, Portfolio Committee No. 4 - Industry inquire into and report on the long-term sustainability of the dairy industry and the role of the Department of Primary Industries and other government agencies in supporting the industry, and in particular: (a) the nature of and relationship within the value chain between farmers, processors, logistics companies and retailers and their respective influence on price; (b) the impact of external influences on the dairy industry, including but not limited to drought, water, energy and price setting; (c) the impact of previous policies, in particular, the deregulation of the dairy industry; (d) the role of government in addressing key economic challenges to the industry; (e) the appointment, operation and effectiveness of the NSW Government's Fresh Milk and Dairy Advocate and the Dairy Industry Advisory Panel; (f) the operation, effectiveness and outcomes arising from the Commonwealth Government's Mandatory Dairy Code of Conduct, including whether additional protections, legislation or regulation are required in New South Wales to better support dairy farmers; and (g) any other related matters. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 2 - HEALTH Reference The Hon. : I inform the House that in accordance with the resolution of the House relating to the establishment of portfolio committees, on 5 February 2020 Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health resolved to adopt the following terms of reference: That Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health inquire into and report on the current and future provision of health services in the South-West Sydney Growth Region, and in particular: (a) an analysis of the planning systems and projections used by NSW Health in making provision for health services to meet the needs of population growth and new suburbs in the South-West Sydney Growth Region; (b) an analysis of capital and health services expenditure in the South-West Sydney Growth Region in comparison to population growth since 2011; (c) the need for and feasibility of a future hospital located in the South-West Sydney Growth Region to service the growing population as part of the aerotropolis land use plan; (d) an investigation into the availability and shortfall of mental, community and allied health services in the South-West Sydney Growth Region, with particular reference to disadvantaged communities since 2011; (e) a comparison of the per capita operational expenditure allocated for health services and hospitals between the South-West Sydney Growth Region and other local health districts across metropolitan Sydney since 2011; (f) a comparison of the staffing allocations at health services and hospitals between the South-West Sydney Growth Region and other local health districts across metropolitan Sydney since 2011; (g) an investigation into the health workforce planning needs of the South-West Sydney Growth Region to accommodate population growth to 2050; (h) a review of preventative health strategies and their effectiveness in the South-West Sydney Growth Region since 2011 and the required increase in funding to deal with childhood obesity; (i) a comparison of clinical outcomes for patients in the South-West Sydney Growth Region compared to other local health districts across metropolitan Sydney since 2011; and (j) any other related matters. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4213

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 2 - HEALTH Reference The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: I inform the House that in accordance with the resolution of the House relating to the establishment of portfolio committees, on 5 February 2020 Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health resolved to adopt the following reference: That Portfolio Committee No. 2 - Health inquire into and report on: (1) The health impacts of exposure to poor levels of air quality resulting from bushfires and drought including: (a) the impact of at-risk groups including children, pregnant women, people with asthma and other respiratory-related illnesses, the elderly and other high-risk groups as well as vulnerable companion animals; (b) the impact on people who are exposed to poor outdoor air quality in the workplace; (c) the long-term impacts of exposure; and (d) the effectiveness of various protective materials and strategies to mitigate the health impacts of exposure. (2) The effectiveness of the New South Wales Government to plan for and improve air quality including: (a) the measurement, reporting and public awareness; (b) the provision of various protective materials including face masks and air purifiers; (c) the ability to ensure the health of at-risk groups; (d) the suitability of work health and safety regulations, industrial provisions and related guidelines; and (e) the capacity to respond within existing resources and ongoing efficiency dividends. (3) Any related matters. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 3 - EDUCATION Reference The Hon. MARK LATHAM: According to the resolution of the House relating to the establishment of portfolio committees, I inform the House that on 6 February 2020 Portfolio Committee No. 3 - Education resolved to adopt the following terms of reference: That Portfolio Committee No. 3 - Education inquire into and report on the contents of and proposed changes to the New South Wales school curriculum, and in particular: (1) The extent to which the Masters curriculum review addresses its terms of reference, including: (a) curriculum content, flexibility and pedagogy; (b) quality and relevance of the evidence base underpinning the recommendations (compared to CESE findings); (c) recommendations for student-centred "progression points" and "differentiated learning" in schools and whether such initiatives are research based and proven to be effective; and (d) relationship with the national schools curriculum. (2) The extent to which the Masters review meets key Government policy objectives, including: (a) addressing concerns about the overcrowding of the curriculum; (b) ensuring students' acquisition of excellence in literacy and numeracy, as well as deep knowledge of key subjects; and (c) Professor Masters' explanation for New South Wales' declining school results and the role a revised curriculum can play in reversing this decline. (3) Other matters of public concern and interest in the development of the New South Wales curriculum: (a) to what extent, if any, "cross-curriculum priorities" are needed to guide classroom content and teaching; (b) to what extent, if any, knowledge and the curriculum are "socially constructed", requiring the teaching of source verification and fluidity principles; (c) whether and to what extent schools should be involved in the "social and emotional development" of students, as per the Melbourne/Alice Springs Declarations, and growing popularity of "wellbeing programs" in New South Wales schools; (d) adequacy of the content and depth of teaching of Australian history, pre- and post-1788; (e) given the importance of English literacy across the curriculum, adopting the most effective evidence-based approaches to language acquisition, especially for reading and writing; (f) role and effectiveness of vocational education syllabuses in New South Wales schools; and Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4214

(g) effectiveness of NESA in curriculum development and supervision. (4) Any related matters. Announcements DEPARTMENT OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) (15:49:40): I advise members of recent staffing changes in the Chamber and Support team. I am pleased to announce that Ms Kerry Blandon, who has previously worked in both the committee and procedure offices, has joined Jodi, Richard, John and Mark as a Chamber and Support officer. In addition, the team will be supplemented on sitting days by our new Chamber intern, Ms Karie Mayman. Karie, who hails from Tamworth, is in her second year of a Bachelor of International Studies and Bachelor of Laws degree at the University of New South Wales. Karie will work on Tuesdays and Wednesdays until the end of May. A second intern, Ms Ashleigh Keighley, will take over from Karie in late May until the end of August. Both interns have been drawn from the University of New South Wales Co-NNECTIONS internship program. Rulings PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) (15:51:01): On behalf of the President, I deliver a ruling relating to the validity of a motion to order the production of documents concerning payroll tax compliance, reserved from 21 November 2019. On Thursday 19 November 2019 the Hon. moved a motion for an order for papers concerning any investigation undertaken by Revenue NSW into the payroll tax compliance of certain companies and related entities. During the debate the Leader of the Government took a point of order to the effect that the motion was invalid and should be ruled out of order on two grounds. The first was that "it is incompatible with the secrecy provisions under the Taxation Administration Act 1996" and that therefore requiring the production of documents would "interfere with the operation of the statutory scheme established by the Act and would require public servants to commit an offence in order to comply with the order" and that "Ministers responsible for the administration of the Taxation Administration Act 1996 cannot call for the documents that are sought in this motion". The second was that "the motion is incompatible with the NSW Ministerial Code of Conduct … In order to comply with the motion, the responsible Ministers would be required to give unlawful directions to public servants to return documents contrary to their obligations under the Taxation Administration Act 1996". The President reserved his ruling and indicated that in view of the importance and complexity of the matters raised he would need to seek advice from Senior Counsel during the summer recess. The Leader of the Opposition moved an amendment to the motion and the debate was adjourned. There are precedents from the nineteenth century and the early twentieth century of Presidents and Deputy Presidents declining to rule on matters which they construe as dealing with points of law rather than parliamentary practice and procedure. However, there are more recent precedents where a President has reserved and subsequently ruled on such matters. On 18 December the President and I, together with the Clerk and Deputy Clerk, met with Mr Bret Walker, SC, to explore this matter. The ruling I am about to give reflects the advice received and is the ruling of the President, with which I concur. I note that it was entirely proper for the Leader of the Government to raise the matters that he canvassed during his point of order. At its heart, the issue before the President is whether the power of the House to order the production of State papers is constrained by statutory secrecy provisions—in this case, those contained in the Taxation Administration Act. In a previous return to order dated 23 April 2008 in relation to the appointment of Dr Graeme Reeves to the Greater Southern Area Health Service, the Director-General of NSW Health observed: … information held by the NSW Department of Health is subject to statutory confidentiality provisions and privacy laws. While an Order to Produce under Standing Order 52 will generally provide a basis to release documents without breaching these provisions, this protection will only apply to documents which actually fall within the terms of the Order to Produce. The Solicitor General and Ms Mitchelmore, SC, in advice tabled in this House in 2014, stated: In one sense the question of whether a statutory non-disclosure provision provides a proper basis for a refusal to produce documents in compliance with an order under SO 52 is one of statutory construction. Does the relevant statutory provision intend to apply to such an order made by the House of the parliament? This is a difficult question. It is reasonably clear that the following (listed) authorities, although referring specifically to the role of parliamentary committees, would take the view that a statutory non-disclosure provision could only affect the powers of the Council if it did so by express reference or necessary implication … Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4215

We are inclined to agree that this view accords with the role of the parliament in a system of responsible and representative government, although the matter can hardly be free from doubt and it is not possible to predict with confidence what view a court might take on the issue. As noted by the Solicitor General, the question of the effect of statutory secrecy provisions on the powers of Parliament has tended to arise in the context of parliamentary committee inquiries. In this regard, I draw the attention of the House to the report of the Select Committee on the Conduct of the Ombudsman's Operation Prospect, dated January 2015, and specifically to paragraphs 1.15 to 1.26, including the conclusion in paragraph 1.26. Subsequent advice from the Solicitor General published as an appendix to the Auditor-General’s Report on State Finances 2018 stated: The Solicitor General expressed the general view that a statutory prohibition on disclosure of information will only be held to apply to a Parliamentary Committee if that is done expressly or by necessary implication. I defer to the views of the Solicitor General … the principle applied by the Solicitor General—that legislation will be presumed not to diminish the "privileges" of Parliament or its committees, unless it does so expressly or by necessary implication—has been accepted in several Australian cases. Bret Walker, SC, noted that the apparent settlement of this question without recourse to litigation reflected the maturity of the institution of responsible government in New South Wales. He noted that "the law is a harmonious whole" and statutory secrecy provisions do not preclude a public servant from cooperating with the Legislative Council's exercise of its power to order the production of State papers. He observed that the statutory secrecy provisions around taxation law were not absolute and that if a taxpayer does not pay their tax and they are prosecuted, the cloak of secrecy does not extend to the courts; so why would the other arm of government— Parliament—have a prohibition on access to information? A public servant responding to an order of the Legislative Council will not be committing an offence and the doctrines around statutory secrecy are not intended to inhibit the actions of those who exercise or execute the orders of the House. According to Mr Walker, the relation between taxation and the House is fundamental and there can be no doubt that consideration of treatment of corporate taxpayers is a legitimate concern of the House. All powers can be used unwisely, but it is for the House to judge how it uses its powers, not the courts. The House has the power to do something unwise; but if it does so, it will be unwise, not unlawful. The correct response to the existence of statutory secrecy provisions is to have due regard to the seriousness of these matters in relation to the questions of publication but not in relation to the powers of the House to order the production of documents, which, in Mr Walker's view, is quite clear. As outlined on page 38 of the 14th edition of Odgers' Australian Senate Practice, where there is any doubt as to the interpretation of a rule or order, the President, as the independent and impartial representative of this House, leans towards a ruling which preserves or strengthens the powers of the House and rights of all members rather than an interpretation that may weaken or lessen those powers and rights. Therefore, and based on the advice the President and I have received on this matter, as well as the matters to which I have just referred, the motion of the Hon. Daniel Mookhey is not out of order. It is for the House to consider how it uses its extensive powers to order the production of documents and, sometimes separately, whether to publish the documents returned. I note the amendment to the Hon. Daniel Mookhey's motion moved by the Leader of the Opposition. Should the motion be agreed, with or without the amendment, the inclusion of statutory secrecy provisions in the Taxation Administration Act may be a relevant consideration in relation to the wisdom of publishing documents returned. However, that is ultimately a matter for the House. Order! According to sessional order, proceedings are now interrupted for questions. Questions Without Notice WILLOW GROVE HERITAGE BUILDING The Hon. (16:02:03): My question is directed to the Leader of the Government in his capacity as arts Minister. Given the Minister's 10 April 2019 comments on ABC Radio when he told broadcasters Robbie Buck and when asked whether heritage property Willow Grove would be demolished to make way for the new Powerhouse Museum, "No, we have not said that at all", will he now admit that he misled the local community, the media and the people of this State? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:02:30): No, I have not misled the local community at all. The Hon. Walt Secord: Fibber! The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! The Hon. Walt Secord's comment is entirely inappropriate. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4216

The Hon. DON HARWIN: The Government conducted a thorough investigation into the relocation of the Powerhouse Museum to achieve the best outcomes for the community. The selected site on the banks of the Parramatta River is the ideal location for the new museum. The project's business case is underpinned by extensive architectural, heritage, museological, geotechnical engineering and flood-risk studies. The Government understands its importance to the community and the international design competition for the new Powerhouse Parramatta focused on developing concept designs to get the best outcome for the people of New South Wales. All finalist design teams in the Powerhouse Parramatta international design competition were asked to consider aspects of heritage and cultural significance within their submissions, including the local heritage buildings. The Hon. Shayne Mallard: Point of order: I am interested in hearing the Minister's answer. The Hon. and the Hon. Walt Secord are both sledging the Minister across the Chamber. I ask you to call them to order. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I am not going to call the members to order. However, as it was a question asked by the Leader of the Opposition, I invite Opposition members to allow the Minister to answer the question without interrupting him. The Minister has the call. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I am not at all fazed by the two honourable members. Other considerations included the activation of transport and pedestrian access consistent with the City of Parramatta Council's vision for a Civic Link. While the retention of heritage was considered carefully during the judging process, the jury was unanimous in its decision on the final chosen concept. The winning design will reflect and engage with the multiple histories of the site, including its Indigenous histories. These histories will be considered and interpreted through the next stage of the design process. The New South Wales Government is working closely with the City of Parramatta Council to ensure the new museum will be the anchor of a new and vibrant Parramatta arts and cultural precinct. The Government is proud of its decision to build an iconic, fit-for-purpose museum in western Sydney that will be recognised around the world for the excellent institution it will be. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Before the next question is asked, I note that I debated whether to call the Hon. Walt Secord to order. He repeated the interjection that I had previously indicated was inappropriate. I will not call him to order. However, I encourage a modicum of self-restraint. BUSHFIRES The Hon. (16:06:01): My question is addressed to the Leader of the Government. Will the Minister update the House on how the Government is responding to the bushfire disaster? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:06:30): This summer we have had one of the most devastating bushfire seasons in the State's history. As outlined in today's condolence motion, which we will be getting to shortly, 11,000 fires from July have burned nearly 5½ million hectares of land, destroying 2,439 homes. Today members in this House will have the chance to offer our condolences for the loss of 25 lives and to the friends and loved ones in the fires. The tragedy of these losses has been commemorated in this Parliament in the other place. It will be commemorated in our House this week and, of course, there was a State memorial service this past Sunday. New South Wales remains indebted to the efforts of volunteers and our community who came together to support one another during a crisis that extended over five months. But as rains have come and extinguished the majority of fires, there still lies a massive task ahead for every community touched by the fires. The New South Wales Government is providing support to every family, every farmer and every business that has been affected by these fires. The Minister in charge of disaster recovery, the Deputy Premier, announced Laing O'Rourke as the head contractor appointed to undertake the clean-up, starting at Rainbow Flat earlier this month. In southern New South Wales the clean-up process is underway, funded by the Commonwealth and State governments, regardless of personal insurance. Residents requiring assistance can contact Service NSW to opt in for the service, which will provide a fresh start for many families who have lost everything. To start the rebuild of properties and homes, the Government is now offering ePlanning, allowing greater transparency and faster approval times to get the work started. The New South Wales Government has further announced council rate relief for affected communities, travel and accommodation subsidies for medical patients travelling to specialist appointments from fire-affected areas and extended grant programs directly targeted at bushfire-affected communities. The New South Wales Government will continue its support for bushfire-affected communities as we undertake an independent review of the causes and response to the bushfire season. New South Wales will recover from this event and we will come out stronger for future natural disasters. That is what is important: Learning from what has happened and making sure we act as we must to prevent such tragedies in the future. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4217

WILLOW GROVE HERITAGE BUILDING The Hon. PENNY SHARPE (16:09:22): My question is directed to the Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Leader of the Government. How does the Minister explain the disparity between his 18 April 2019 statement that Willow Grove will not be demolished and his 19 February 2020 statement that it was "an accurate answer at that particular point in time"? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:09:46): Very simply. If the honourable member had listened to the answer I just gave, she would know that all of the entrants in the design competition were encouraged to look at the heritage— The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I call the Hon. Walt Secord to order for the first time. That is the third time he has interjected. He must show a modicum of restraint. The Minister has the call. The Hon. DON HARWIN: As I was saying, all of the entrants in the design competition were encouraged to look at the heritage considerations of the site. They were also encouraged to consider other priorities that the City of Parramatta Council had, such as the Civic Link and the importance of creating a river square. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: You told people that Willow Grove was going to stay. That is what you went to the election on. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I did not. I never said that and don't interrupt— The Hon. Walt Secord: You liar. You're lying again. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I have never said that. The Hon. Walt Secord: He's lying again. The Hon. DON HARWIN: Never. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: Well, you threw the Premier under the bus because she did. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I call the Hon. Walt Secord to order for the second time. I call the Hon. Penny Sharpe to order for the first time. The Minister has the call. The Hon. DON HARWIN: The reason I have always said that heritage considerations will be taken into account is that there are several things that the City of Parramatta Council asked to be considered, not just the heritage of Willow Grove. I refer to a letter from the City of Parramatta Council to Create NSW on 1 July 2019 where it makes it very clear that it has decided not to prioritise its objectives—not. It made it clear to us that the realisation of a 24-hour publicly accessible Civic Link, the delivery of a connected river square and the retention and adaptive reuse of Willow Grove and St George's Terrace all have strategic importance to the city. When we received advice like that from the City of Parramatta Council, it was clear that the responsible thing to do was to put in all of those considerations as criteria in the design competition and invite architects to do what they could to optimise the outcome of all four strategic priorities. As I also made clear on Wendy Harmer and Robbie Buck's program more recently, at least two of the designers in the competition— The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The Minister's time has expired. The Hon. DON HARWIN: Under the standing orders, I seek an extension of time to complete my answer. Leave granted. One designer chose to enter a design that involved Willow Grove staying and another chose to enter a design that involved St George's Terrace staying. The unanimous view of the jury in the design competition was that neither was the preferred outcome. They chose an excellent outcome, which is now the design that the Government is pursuing. That puts the lie to people who have been saying that the Government was telling them to demolish Willow Grove. We were not, as any fair reading of the design competition brief will show. There it is. I have always said that all of the matters that the City of Parramatta Council wrote to us about in July 2019 were important. The Hon. Walt Secord: I ask a supplementary question. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The Hon. Walt Secord is not able to ask a supplementary question. The Hon. Walt Secord: Your lies will stay hidden, Don. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4218

The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) Order! I do not know whether it is a deliberate strategy by the Hon. Walt Secord to get himself thrown out but he has been told repeatedly where he is transgressing yet he continues to interject. He probably does so because I am the Acting President and he is seeing how far he can go. I encourage him, particularly on a day when the House will be dealing with an important condolence motion, not to descend into a position where he is thrown out of this place. Let us all ramp it back and allow question time to proceed in a civil manner. I do not want to throw the member out, but if he continues to interject he gives me no choice. BUSHFIRES AND THREATENED SPECIES Ms (16:15:07): My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Energy and Environment, the Hon. Don Harwin. Given that 37 per cent of our national parks estate has been burnt this unprecedented bushfire season, along with many threatened species in their habitat, what immediate additional funding and resources is the Government providing to protect more threatened species habitat, including by restoring and expanding our national parks, as more frequent and extreme whether events like this one driven by climate change push many of our most precious native species, including the koala, platypus and brush-tailed rock wallaby, to the brink of extinction? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:15:53): The honourable member asks a number of very good questions that require detailed responses. I am certainly well aware of the effect of the fires on those areas. The office of Heritage is preparing advice for me on matters such as the extensive damage to the Blue Mountains world heritage area, and of course the Gondwana Rainforests in northern New South Wales, which are both on the State Heritage Register. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: So is St George's Terrace. The Hon. DON HARWIN: No, it is not. No, it is not on the State Heritage Register. Do your research, Penny. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: I do know my research. It used to be on there. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I should not respond to interjections, and they should not be made in the first place. Given that I have been sent off course by the Hon. Penny Sharpe, the best thing to do is get back on course and say that I will take the question on notice and ensure that the Minister gives a response to the honourable member as quickly as possible. BUSHFIRES AND SCHOOLS The Hon. SHAYNE MALLARD (16:17:07): My question is addressed to the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning. Will the Minister update the House on how the New South Wales Government continues to support schools in bushfire-affected areas? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:17:35): I am sure the House will agree with me when I say the summer of 2019-20 will leave an impression on our State for many decades to come. The Leader of the Government has mentioned it in his contribution to question time and the forthcoming debate on the condolence motion will allow other members to make a contribution. I share the same sentiment that many of my colleagues will no doubt express, that our thoughts have been and will continue to be with the people of New South Wales who have been affected by bushfires since October last year. As Minister for Education, my focus in the wake of the fires has been on making sure our students, principals and teachers have the chance to return to some form of normality. We know that schools are the hearts of our communities and I saw it as an imperative that we prioritise getting them back up and running in time for day one, term one 2020. More than 180 schools have been directly impacted by the bushfires since October last year. Damage at these schools has ranged from complete destruction through to contamination from ash or fire retardant. Regardless, they were not suitable for staff or students to return to. In January I announced that the Government would be investing $20 million to ensure every bushfire-impacted school would be operational for day one, term one. I spoke about this in the House late last year in relation to Bobin Public School, which was destroyed by the November fires. I am pleased to tell members of the House that every public school affected by the bushfires was operational for the start of the 2020 school year. This was a big effort on behalf of a lot of people in our school communities, and I think it is important that that is acknowledged. I am a very big believer in school being the best place for children to be in the wake of such trauma. Many, many people in these communities have told me that the normality and the routine will play a significant part in the recovery process for them and their kids. It is important for students to be able to reconnect with their friends, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4219

share their stories and return to their everyday lives as best they can. I also acknowledge that this is just the beginning of a long period of recovery for many in these communities. Ensuring mental health support is available for staff and students in schools throughout this recovery period remains essential. That is why we have deployed additional school counsellors to provide tailored long- and short-term support to each school, which will be ongoing. In acknowledgement of the fact that many students will be displaced after having lost their home, we have also relaxed enrolment catchment areas to ensure that every child has access to an education regardless of where they might be staying. Further, we have placed a freeze on teacher entitlements. Even if enrolments at a school have declined due to the bushfires, students will still have access to the same number of teachers they had before the fires. We are also rolling out support for early childhood education services. Some of these initiatives I might expand on later. The Government has established a new directorate within the Department of Education to deal solely with bushfire recovery and also to develop a longer-term bushfire strategy. We are committed to ensuring that these children, no matter what they have been through, will be supported. BUSHFIRES AND FORESTRY INDUSTRY Mr (16:21:05): My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Education, representing the Deputy Premier and Minister for Trade and Industry. As a result of the unprecedented fires across the State, has force majeure been triggered across all wood supply agreements between the Forestry Corporation of NSW and its customers? If not all, which contracts is the Government expecting to have force majeure provisions apply? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:21:30): I thank the member for his question asked of me in my capacity representing the Deputy Premier, who also has responsibility for bushfire recovery, which was not alluded to in the question. Obviously it is a very serious question, particularly in relation to how the fires have affected the forestry industry. The member asked for detail. I will take the question on notice, confer with the Deputy Premier and come back to the member with a response in due course. WILLOW GROVE HERITAGE BUILDING The Hon. WALT SECORD (16:21:55): My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Leader of the Government. Did the Minister at any point ask that Willow Grove be retained as part of the design of the Powerhouse Museum at Parramatta? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:22:15): I think the previous two questions that I have answered have given me an opportunity to make it entirely clear that the retention of Willow Grove was something that needed to be considered by the designers involved in the design competition. That has been my position all along. I quote from the City of Parramatta Council's letter, which is directly on point. The council said to me that— The Hon. Penny Sharpe: Why are you putting it home to them? This is your decision. It's not the commitment you made. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I am sorry but I did consider it to be a very relevant consideration, what the elected council decided on behalf of its council, which was, after all, the vendor for the site. The council made it additionally clear to me that "prioritising the objectives would unduly constrain the opportunity to deliver both a world-class museum and council's objectives through a creative competition process." Council supported the creative competition process and made it very clear that it did not want to constrain it by being prescriptive in terms of which was the most important consideration. Willow Grove, for example— The Hon. Penny Sharpe: So it's council's fault that you did not tell the truth. The Hon. DON HARWIN: No, I did not ever say that it was council's fault. I said that we took council's advice into consideration when we prepared the brief for the design competition. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: Listen to the community. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! This is not a conversation. The Minister is entitled to answer without a dialogue going on. The Minister may proceed. The Hon. DON HARWIN: That well and truly answers the question. It is quite clear that the retention of Willow Grove, or non-retention for that matter—it is a semantic argument, which way it is phrased; it is two Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4220

sides of the same coin, when all is said and done—was very clearly something that all of the designers were asked to consider. The Hon. WALT SECORD (16:24:40): I ask a supplementary question. Would the Minister elucidate his answer in regard to the Willow Grove retention that he discussed in his answer? Is it Parramatta council, the Premier or the Minister who lied? The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): It would take a considerable amount of time for me to read out the precedents from a whole range of Presidents of every colour in this Chamber. The Hon. Walt Secord clearly knows what the problem has been up to this point but he has now sought to inject the word into a question. I invite the member to rephrase his question. Again, I make the observation that the member is on two calls to order. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Would the Minister elucidate his answer in regard to the Willow Grove retention? Is it the Parramatta council, the Premier or the Minister who fibbed to the community? The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I invite the member to rephrase his question. This is the final time for the member to put his question and take out the offensive word. The Hon. Natalie Ward: He is wasting valuable time. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I do not need assistance from Government members. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Would the Minister elucidate his answer in regard to Willow Grove's retention? Was it Parramatta council, the Premier or the Minister who misled the community? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:26:55): None, and I have nothing to add to my three previous answers on this point. BUSHFIRES AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES The Hon. (16:27:10): My question is addressed to the Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women. How is the New South Wales Government supporting the mental health and wellbeing of people in fire-affected communities? The Hon. (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women) (16:27:30): I thank the honourable member for his question. I, like everyone in this House, acknowledge the recent bushfires. They were unprecedented in their scale, in their duration and in their intense impact. I talked to many people during this time and I heard about the impacts that the bushfires had had on them. Canberra families who survived bushfires years ago had bought properties on the South Coast only to be hit years later by the intensity and the devastation that these fires have caused. The son of the member for Bega, Andrew Constance, said to his mother after the recent floods, "Are we safe now?" This clearly demonstrates the impact that this devastation is having on the mental health of all people in those areas and beyond, especially the young people. I will mention my personal impact of the fires, as will everyone else in this Chamber later today. My husband was out fighting the fires and yet we lost 98 per cent of our farm at Adelong. I know how it felt to be his wife and the mother of his daughters, how concerned we were for him and for everyone fighting fires in those times. I know how it made me feel, so I can only imagine how it affected people who were much more greatly affected. The Government has initiated a quick and good response to these fires in terms of mental health care. I would like to make special mention of the Sydney local health districts and the terrific work that they have done in our areas by having specialist mental health teams come into the fire-affected areas. Only recently I was told in Bega that one of the community mental health centres from Westmead sent clinical nurse consultants whose specialty is in education. They did a shift on the ward to allow the mental health staff to recover and to be able to cope with what they had to deal with. That is a real testament to our services and to the mental health division of NSW Health. I am very proud to be their Minister. The early phase of this recovery was an emergency response that was activated immediately in the wake of the fires in different parts of the State. Recently Professor Alexander McFarlane, AO, from the University of Adelaide, who is a world-leading expert in mental health disaster recovery and who has been involved with Ash Wednesday, Black Saturday and the Grenfell Towers disaster in the UK, was appointed. He will advise us on the mid-term and long-term strategy of the recovery phase. We know that mental illness tends to emerge many months, sometimes years, after a disaster. We must be in this for the long haul, and we will be. This is not the start of the process. It is a chance to tighten the recovery plan and ensure everyone involved at every level is working together. It has been tough for the people of New South Wales, but together we will get through this. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4221

DUCK HUNTING The Hon. (16:30:32): In directing my question to the Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women, representing the Minister for Agriculture and Western New South Wales, I refer to the cruel Victorian duck hunting season that typically begins in March each year and to the fact that while New South Wales has banned duck hunting on public land, some of the Victorian duck hunting areas are located next to the New South Wales border. What is the Government doing to protect our native ducks and ensure that shooters in Victoria do not cross the border and shoot animals illegally in New South Wales? The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women) (16:31:11): I thank the Hon. Emma Hurst for her question. I am informed that illegal hunting of any species, including native ducks, is taken very seriously in New South Wales. The Department of Primary Industries [DPI] game licensing unit and the NSW Police Force regulate hunting on both private and public land in New South Wales. In September 2019 the Minister for Agriculture and Western New South Wales launched Joint Strike Force Venari, which is a significant collaboration between those two agencies to better target illegal hunting through intelligence sharing and joint field operations. Part of the joint strike force includes the Shut the Gate on Illegal Hunting program, which encourages community members to detect and deter illegal hunting and report it through the Crime Stoppers platform. The DPI's game licensing unit has 16 dedicated inspector positions across the State, which include five in southern New South Wales and one position located at Deniliquin that is tasked with monitoring duck mitigation activities in the Riverina. The NSW Police Force has a dedicated rural crime prevention team with 45 rural crime investigators [RCIs] who are located around the State. Their role is to detect and deter a range of rural crime types, including illegal hunting. RCIs work closely with the DPI game licensing unit inspectors to respond to all illegal hunting incidents. Changes to trespass and illegal hunting laws as part of the Rural Crime Prevention Bill 2017 and the recent Right to Farm Bill 2019 have significantly strengthened penalties for illegal hunting in New South Wales. As I stated at the beginning of my answer, the New South Wales Government takes any illegal hunting of any species in New South Wales very seriously. BUSHFIRES AND YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES The Hon. (16:33:12): My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women. Given the Premier's 4 February comments regarding the bushfires in which she stated, "The mental health impacts of those affected, including children, in these communities will likely take years to heal", I ask, how much new funding has been provided to assist with mental health and trauma counselling for young people? The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women) (16:33:46): I thank the Hon. Tara Moriarty for her question relating to increased funding for youth mental health. A range of announcements has been made in relation to mental health funding for the area. I will start with what we have done with education. The Government is ensuring that there are extra counsellors in the schools to provide access for young people if they require assistance—not only to young people but also to their families. Recently I discussed this with headspace, which has moved headspace workers into the area and has based them there for a period of up to nine months. I believe that is a really positive initiative because people are telling us that they want to be supported by people who are within their communities and it means we can skill up people to cope with increased demand. Through one of our resilience funds we are encouraging people, particularly young people, to consider programs and events that get people together—young people, adults, people from any age group. Recently during the drought we held a program at The Oval Physiotherapy and Sports Injuries Centre that addressed the impacts of the drought. It was run by the local preschool and some of the preschool committee members knew we had to do something about mental health. I recognise that the question asked by the Hon. Tara Moriarty specifically related to bushfires but I ask for her indulgence because the mental health issues are interchangeable. The preschool committee said that the program had actually broken the drought on mental health. We have to be really nimble about the way we manage mental health impacts, particularly their effect on young people. The types of program to which I have referred are the types of activity that people are asking for. People, particularly young people, need to get together and have an opportunity to talk about what has happened to them, so programs and events are important initiatives. Our normal programs, such as the Getting on Track in Time—Got It! program, are also involved and we have announced funding for extra counsellors as extra support. The Federal Government has funded 10 extra sessions in communities. People do not need a formal referral to access the sessions, which are provided by a myriad of allied health professionals, not just psychologists, who are Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4222

providing lots of support on the ground. That also is a positive step. The Government also is considering bushfire coordinator positions which will link people to services. The Government has lots of initiatives going. We are living this every day, we are learning from it and we are listening to ensure we provide the services that people require. BUSHFIRES AND SMALL BUSINESS The Hon. MATTHEW MASON-COX (16:36:52): My question is directed to the Minister for Finance and Small Business. What is the Government doing to support small businesses affected by bushfires? The Hon. (Minister for Finance and Small Business) (16:37:38): I thank the Hon. Matthew Mason-Cox for his question. Bushfires will be a significant part of today's discussion. Every Coalition member will speak to the motion of condolence, as I am sure members opposite also will. Clearly, small business has been significantly impacted by bushfires. I had the opportunity to visit a number of regional areas and speak to people who operate small businesses. In many respects the stories they tell are exactly the same as the stories being told about the impact of drought on small businesses, except that the bushfires circumstance has had an immense impact in a short period. Businesses that were expecting to rely on significant increases in local economies from tourism or who alternatively had their businesses instantly destroyed by bushfires have suffered significant losses. I suggest that we will not become entirely aware of the long-term consequences for quite some time but some things can be done. I emphasise that the response to bushfires and other disasters primarily is dictated by getting cash flowing into communities as quickly as possible. The cash flow can be generated by cash injections, grants or loans. The Government has made grants and loans available to businesses that have been directly impacted by bushfires and loans are available to other businesses adversely affected. Some anecdotal evidence is available about the take-up rate of loans and the Government will continue to explore that to ensure that the eligibility criteria are agile enough to respond to small businesses. The other thing that we can do though is ensure that the work done in the recovery process is in fact done by local small businesses. Whether it is Laing O'Rourke or the Government, we have in fact dictated to those recovery agencies, "You must at first attempt, try to use small businesses." More than 1,000 businesses are now registered to provide that support. Hopefully dollars will go through those communities, with a view to reviving the economies of those areas. The second thing, and it has been alluded to by others, is trying to get tourism dollars back into the community by the use of tourism promotional campaigns—get people to go there. [Time expired.] The Hon. DAMIEN TUDEHOPE: I seek leave to continue for one minute. Leave granted. I will finish on this point. It is important that we play our part in going to regional New South Wales, the same way that we encourage people to go and spend dollars during drought. The time is opportune for us to buy product in regional areas, go there and have a holiday, or alternatively have our conferences there. There are obligations on all of us to recognise the trauma that those communities and small businesses have gone through and to love New South Wales. SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. MARK LATHAM (16:41:04): My question is directed to the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning. Does the Minister agree with Professor Geoff Masters, who said last week that the decline in New South Wales school results this century is "almost unmatched in the rest of the world. It is very hard to find places that have seen such a steady decline over such a long period"? Given that New South Wales has the fastest falling school results in the world, how has this disaster for the State's young people been allowed to happen, who is responsible for it and how is the Government going to fix it? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:41:41): I thank the member for his question in relation to the comments made by Professor Masters and more generally in relation to education in New South Wales, lifting outcomes and what we are going to do to fix it. I know he did not specifically ask me about this in relation to the report and the work that his committee has done, which also looked extensively at some of these issues. I will have more to say about that in due course. I have had many questions asked of me in this House by the member and by others opposite about what we are doing to lift education outcomes in this country, particularly in New South Wales. I agree that there is more to be done. I have been open about that and about the fact that some of the results we are seeing—whether it was the Programme for International Student Assessment [PISA] late last year or the final assessment of NAPLAN results that were released publicly today—clearly show that we are not getting the results that we should for students in New South Wales. I have said that and I have accepted that. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4223

What I am saying and reiterating yet again is that we are working on a range of measures to help improve outcomes. These include things like, as I have spoken about in the House before, the roll out of our Bump It Up program. We started this program in just over 100 schools. We set targets for each and every school to improve outcomes in literacy and numeracy. That had fantastic results. We saw a lift. Now we are rolling that out for the first time ever across all 2,200 public schools in New South Wales. We are working with our school principals and communities to set these targets so that we can have something for them to aim for to see that lift. As part of that process we will look at how schools are working towards meeting those outcomes. If they do not, we will look at ways that we can work around best practice models. Again, I know that is something the member is interested in. We have spoken about it before. I note it was something that was canvassed quite extensively during the committee process. We need to make sure that the best practice in respect of what we are doing in the classroom is being scaled out across our schools in contexts that are relevant and appropriate to those students. There is work underway in that space as well. Our curriculum review is underway. It is the first time in 30 years that we have done such an extensive review of the curriculum. Professor Masters, who the member referenced in his question, is conducting that review for us. A big part of the push as part of that review will be a decluttering of the syllabuses. We are talking about the potential of up to 30 per cent in respect of the content and a focus particularly on the back to basics in kindergarten, year one and year two. Again these are issues extensively canvassed in Professor Masters' interim report, with the final report due later this year. We are also making some improvements in respect of improving teacher quality, working with our universities for minimum entry requirements and bringing in our teacher success profile. So for anybody who commenced a university degree last year, they will not get a job in a government school if they do not have— [Time expired.] The Hon. MARK LATHAM (16:44:48): I ask a supplementary question. Could the Minister elaborate on her mention of the school targets and particularly give reference to the Government's policy and outcome-based budgeting to have these targets at the point of service delivery disaggregated, as stated in the Government's policy? Why then is the Government going to aggregate these targets and have only published material from the performance of the Department of Education instead of publishing targets school by school, measuring performance school by school, as per the Government policy? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:45:18): I thank the member for his supplementary question. Again, I believe this issue has been raised as part of his committee. There are recommendations around the publication of data and what we will do with that. They are the things that will be considered by the Government in response to the work that that committee has done. As I said, now is not the time—and I will note that—to have that discussion. That will happen in due course. The point remains that, particularly for me as Minister, this is priority number one. I take this extremely seriously. The Premier is also strong on improving outcomes for our children at our schools. It is something that we know has to happen. We are working on a range of measures to make this the case. Every day that I am education Minister I will continue to make this priority number one for me and for our Government. The Hon. WALT SECORD (16:46:10): I ask a second supplementary question. Will the Minister elucidate her answer in regard to "decluttering" the curriculum and that "30 per cent" could be removed? What areas is the Government looking at? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:46:22): I am happy to answer that one. As I said, an interim report—again this was something we talked about quite a bit in the House last year—has been provided by Professor Masters. He talks about a decluttering of the curriculum. He offers the interpretation that we could look at a reduction of up to 30 per cent. That suggestion or idea is now out for further consultation, which Professor Masters is undertaking for us. We are waiting for him to come back with the final report as to what that might look like and suggestions around how that might be the case. There has been extensive consultation with stakeholders and opportunities for people in the teaching profession to be part of Professor Masters' review. This is important for me as Minister and it is important for us as a government. Every school I have been to and almost every teacher I have talked to refers to the burden of the curriculum, the amount of content that they have to get through and the difficulty in being able to focus on the core knowledge within each subject area. They have all said that over time there has been a creeping addition to our curriculums across a range of syllabuses. We need to look clearly at ways that we can help our teachers do their best job, get to the content and spend the time on the issues that they know are key and crucial for a child's learning. That is part of what we are asking Professor Masters to recommend to us as a government. The key for the Masters review will not just be what he comes back with in terms of recommendations but also the implementation. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4224

I have already started having conversations with many of our stakeholders. I have asked, how are we going to make this work in practice? How are we going to do it so that whatever we bring in will make it better for you as teachers so that our students will be able to learn those core skills that we know are appropriate and critical? How can we make sure that we have it in a way that you can teach it from Bellevue Hill to Broken Hill? We need to make sure that we implement any changes properly. We need to do it with the teachers, with the principals and with our school communities. This is something that the Government is serious about. We want to make sure that we are providing our teachers with the best possible resources so that kids get the best possible outcomes. It is a clear priority for me as Minister and, as I said, that will continue to be the case. INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION INVESTIGATIONS The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY (16:48:27): My question is directed to the Special Minister of State, and Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Leader of the Government. Given that it has been almost six months since the ICAC confirmed that it was conducting a preliminary investigation into the member for Drummoyne, John Sidoti, what is the status of the investigation? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:48:52): I think the Premier has made it perfectly clear that the Government does not ask ICAC about the progress of ongoing inquiries. It is a matter for the ICAC. I think she is entirely right. I do not think it would be appropriate for the Executive Government to start going and asking those questions of the ICAC at all. I am sorry, there is no information that I am able to provide the member. Nor will I be referring the question to the Premier because there will be nothing that she will be able to provide either. BUSHFIRES AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE The Hon. SAM FARRAWAY (16:49:40): I address my question to the Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts. Will the Minister update the House on the role of the public service during bushfire season? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:49:55): The response to the bushfire disaster this season has required a whole-of-government effort, and that is what we have had. As Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, I have been proud to see the excellent work from every government cluster in their coordinated response. I acknowledge the tireless work of the New South Wales Public Service in its actions over the holiday period. Employee fatigue and safety have been a priority throughout this event and are being monitored very closely. Government employees involved in volunteer frontline response to the bushfires have been given consideration and leave as required to keep them safe in the workplace. Flexible work arrangements including working remotely were also applied where workplaces were disrupted by the fires. Cluster secretaries have the discretion to allow special leave to any employee who has been supporting volunteer agencies against disaster and to employees directly affected by the fires. This has been particularly important for Indigenous employees, who maintain a strong cultural connection to the lands burnt by fire. Aboriginal people, communities, businesses and landowners have been affected through lost homes and damage to landholdings by the recent bushfire crisis in New South Wales. Given the unprecedented nature of the crisis, Aboriginal Affairs NSW has taken an active role to support the numerous Aboriginal communities impacted. Aboriginal Affairs NSW is providing advice to Aboriginal communities and local Aboriginal land councils on the potential sources of funding and other assistance to support their recovery efforts. Our public service has performed remarkably under the extreme pressure of this emergency over many months. Its efforts both during and after this disaster have made a profound difference to each person impacted by these fires. We thank each of our employees and, of course, all the volunteers who assisted through these fires. GREYHOUND WELFARE INTEGRITY COMMISSION The Hon. MARK PEARSON (16:52:30): I direct my question to the Hon. Damien Tudehope, representing the Hon. Kevin Anderson, Minister for Better Regulation and Innovation. On 21 and 28 January 2020 greyhounds Two More Models and Sharp Catch were killed at the Lismore racing track. The Greyhound Welfare Integrity Commission stated it would review the deaths, especially given that the Lismore track has the second highest record for deaths and injuries. A previous investigation in January 2019 was also held due to concerns about the high number of deaths and injuries at Lismore. No report has ever been released and racing has again recommenced. Will the Minister advise the House on the outcome of the Greyhound Welfare Integrity Commission's investigation of the Lismore track? Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4225

The Hon. DAMIEN TUDEHOPE (Minister for Finance and Small Business) (16:53:30): Clearly that is a very specific question in relation to a specific racetrack. I will take the question on notice. INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG (16:54:10): I direct my question to the Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts. Are the budget cuts to ICAC impeding its ability to conduct proper and timely investigations? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (16:54:32): I thank the honourable member for his question. The Government is vigilant in its commitment to maintaining the highest standards of accountability and transparency. In the 2019-20 budget the Government provided funding of more than $104 million for the ICAC over the forward estimates. In 2019-20 the ICAC received a budget allocation of $26.6 million, plus an additional $2.5 million in supplementary funding. Overall this represents an increase in funding compared to the previous year. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! I remind the Hon. Penny Sharpe that she is on one call to order. The Hon. Daniel Mookhey and the Hon. John Graham might join her shortly. The Hon. DON HARWIN: This funding will help to ensure that the ICAC continues to be fully equipped to investigate, expose and prevent corruption at all times. This is extremely important. Consistent with previous practice— The Hon. Penny Sharpe: Like in the case of John Sidoti. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I will resist the temptation, although I do have a list of some of the interesting things we have heard in the past year about the Labor Party. Consistent with previous practice, the need for any additional funding will be assessed throughout the financial year to ensure that the ICAC continues to be fully equipped to investigate, expose and prevent corruption at all times. Independent statutory bodies such as the ICAC must be, and must be perceived to be, independent from the government agencies that are subject to its jurisdiction. Following concerns raised by integrity agencies, the Government has requested that the Auditor-General undertake an independent review of the effectiveness of the financial arrangements and management practices of all integrity agencies, including the ICAC. The Auditor-General is expected to report in early 2020. BUSHFIRES AND SCHOOLS The Hon. (16:57:30): I address my question to the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning. Will the Minister update the House on assistance that is being provided to support the mental health of students at bushfire-affected schools throughout New South Wales? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (16:57:50): I thank the member for his question, which builds on my earlier answer regarding what we are doing to help bushfire-affected communities. As I said, we know that our communities are hurting. We have significantly increased the number of counsellors in bushfire-affected schools to ensure that support is available on the ground for students who need it most. One thing that principals in these communities have said to me clearly in our discussions is that our kids and our teachers are going to need more support and that this is going to be very useful. That is why we have been working very closely with these schools. We have identified 115 schools that require increased counselling services and 72 of these require intensive support. The schools in need of intensive support have two full-time counselling positions, while other affected schools have at least one full-time specialist on the ground. We put these arrangements in place and we did that for the first four weeks of this term. We continue to work with these school communities on how long these counselling staff need to be there. In addition, school counselling staff have come from Sydney and from other parts of the State and we have engaged some retired counsellors to come back and assist. As I said, we will continue to work with all affected schools to ensure that adequate support is being provided. Those counselling staff were deployed for a minimum of four weeks but every school that requires longer-term support will be able to extend that service for as long as they want, for as long as the community wants and for as long as they need. In fact, at the beginning of the term, not long ago, I was at Wytaliba. They talked about the additional support they had and said that not only were the students benefitting but also some family members were accessing the support as well, which has been incredibly important. In addition to the support for students, we cannot forget our school staff, including our principals, who are so often at the centre of the community and have been on hand throughout this crisis, as well as our other staff who are also dealing with trauma. Many of them have dealt with horrific personal circumstances during the bushfire period. We want to make sure that they have access to mental health support services as well. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4226

We have put in place a dedicated support package for staff that complements our existing wellbeing programs. The targeted support includes access to resources and services and has a strong focus on mental health support, wellbeing services and bushfire health information. It also provides some practical information about the leave and assistance packages that are available under the State and Commonwealth recovery plans. It is very important that we make sure that the entire school community is supported. That is why we have also provided advice to parents and families about how to properly identify signs of stress in children. More information for families is available on the department's website. The impact on communities has been unique, which is why we are working closely with principals to offer a range of evidence-based programs at no additional cost to schools. We know what is necessary and that one school community's needs might differ from another community's needs elsewhere in the State. We will certainly be led by our local school communities. We know that this situation is not business as usual. We will make sure that school communities have the support they need, particularly when it comes to the mental health of staff and their students. The Hon. DON HARWIN: The time for questions has expired. If members have further questions I suggest they place them on notice. Questions Without Notice: Take Note TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The Hon. MARK LATHAM: I move: That the House take note of answers to questions. SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. MARK LATHAM (17:02:37): I reflect on the answer given by the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning about school results. While the House is quite rightly considering the bushfire condolence motion and focusing on the bushfire recovery today, there is another issue that has become unavoidable. Since the last sitting, the Programme for International Student Assessment [PISA] results were released and they were incredibly distressing for the future of New South Wales and our schools. They showed that we have gone backwards against not only international competitors but also other States and Territories, as well as backwards against the standards set by the 15-year-olds who first sat the test in New South Wales in 2000. The results achieved in 2018 revealed that in English, New South Wales 15-year-old students today have gone backwards by five schooling terms compared with students in 2000. We have gone backwards against our own standards and, compared with other States and Territories, it is fair to say that New South Wales is in the second rung of school systems as measured by academic results. The Australian Capital Territory, Victoria, Western and even Queensland are in the first rung while we are languishing with the Northern Territory, South Australia and Tasmania. In international comparisons we are two years behind places such as Singapore in science and English and four years behind China in maths. These students are not 50-year-old students who have fallen four years behind in an adult education course; they are 15-year-olds who are four years behind students in maths in competitive nations such as China. That is nearly half of their time in New South Wales schools so far. These are dramatically bad results. Last week, at the Sydney Morning Herald Schools Summit, Professor Geoff Masters set out that we effectively have the fastest declining school system measured by academic attainment in the world. On top of that, every second day there are more distressing results. Today the NAPLAN material that was released showed that whilst there was a bit of growth in the primary school years, it was wiped out by results that are going backwards in the high school years. Yesterday we got the news that the teachers who are coming out of their education are not passing the tests in literacy and numeracy in the ways they should. On top of that, the inquiry that several members of this House conducted into the school system and outcome-based budgeting and measurement showed that there is very little that is going right in the school system, the Department of Education or the New South Wales Education Standards Authority. I estimate that the Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning has the biggest job ahead of her of any education Minister in the 170 years of public instruction in New South Wales. It is a huge task. She made a great start with the policy direction she put out in December; I congratulate her on that. I urge every member of this place and the other place to take an interest in this issue. We all have a responsibility to contribute ideas in school policy to reverse the decline and get New South Wales back to where it used to be as one of the best systems in the world. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4227

SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS BUSHFIRES WILLOW GROVE HERITAGE BUILDING The Hon. WALT SECORD (17:05:35): As the shadow Treasurer and shadow arts Minister, I will make several points. First I speak to the answer given on literacy and numeracy education attainment levels in New South Wales. I agree that those results are damning, disturbing and heartbreaking. I would not be standing here if it were not for a strong public education system. The results released in late 2019 showed that more than 20 per cent of students in New South Wales were in the category of low performance. That is one in five students. We are letting down an entire generation. This Government has been in power for nine years; it is time it takes responsibility for the fact that literacy and numeracy levels in New South Wales are dropping. I worked for former Premier Bob Carr and I was proud when we stood out in the OECD ranks, with New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory equal to Finland. Now we are amongst the second tier nations. Countries such as Singapore and China are leapfrogging us. In Australia we are—as the Hon. Mark Latham said—on the second tier with Tasmania and South Australia. It is absolutely extraordinary. In response to the answer given about bushfire recovery, I say that this Government has an obligation to communities under stress to get it right. The first thing it should do is make sure that insurance companies deliver payments so that people can rebuild. That will provide stimulus to communities and help get them back on their feet. Finally I finish by responding to the answer given about the Powerhouse Museum. There was much discussion in the Chamber about how the issue was categorised and we settled on, "The Minister misled the community". The Premier and the Minister misled the community. Before the election they stood up and told the community that Willow Grove would be protected. Afterwards they secretly pulled out and the design competition did not explicitly protect Willow Grove. Again the Government has been caught out. The Premier and the arts Minister have misled the community on the Powerhouse Museum and Willow Grove. This project has lurched from crisis to crisis. In the Cabinet room, Deputy Premier John Barilaro expressed concern about the $1.5 billion expenditure for the Powerhouse Museum move. He wants that money to go to bushfire- and drought-affected communities. Now an overseas virus is impacting on the Australian economy. I implore the Government to stop the Powerhouse Museum move. The Government has spent between $60 million to $80 million on consultants for the project. It is time that it accepts that the community does not want to spend $1.5 billion to move a museum that it does not want moved. It is time for the Minister to fess up and admit that he and the Premier misled the community. BUSHFIRES AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES The Hon. TARA MORIARTY (17:08:34): I speak in response to some of the information provided by the Government today on mental health support for bushfire-affected communities. I acknowledge the answer provided by the mental health Minister and her own personal experience. I am sure I speak for all members when I say how sorry I am about the Minister's personal situation on her property. It sounds like it was a terrible experience. I am genuinely sorry that happened to her. I mean that. We will all have more to say about that this afternoon. But it is clear from some of the answers provided by a couple of the Ministers today—particularly the mental health Minister—that there is no new money. No new funding or resources are being provided to these fire-affected communities for mental health support and additional trauma support. Everyone in this place acknowledges that those communities have been through a horrible experience over the summer. It is great that the Government has acknowledged that today. But the Government's responsibility is not just to provide an amount of money for the rebuilding of stuff. Its job is also to provide additional funding and support for individual families, children and communities as a whole so that they can rebuild themselves in terms of the mental health and trauma they have suffered over the course of the summer. We know that many communities that suffered over the summer were already doing it tough. Most of those communities are not particularly wealthy. Many of them make the best of their business year during the summer and they have been devastated financially as well as mentally. I was interested to hear from the education Minister that additional school counsellors are being provided to some schools in fire-affected areas. But what we have heard is that really those counsellors are being moved from other schools into fire-affected schools on a temporary basis. I remind the Government that during the lead-up to the last election it committed to providing two mental health experts in every school across New South Wales. That has not happened. The Government is shifting resources around from the city to some of these areas temporarily when we know that these issues are not just short term. People are going to need years of mental support and rebuilding Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4228

over the longer term. The Government should be investing in that now, not waiting to hear from an expert. I am glad that the expert has been appointed but to hear today that the Government is going to wait for advice from that expert about how money should be spent is just not good enough. The trauma is already in place. Frankly, these people deserve support now. It is simply the right thing to do. But it is also essential that we invest in these people now. If we do not, the longer-term problems will cost those communities and the people of New South Wales more. We have to do better in this space. We have to do better to support these communities to rebuild their resilience and make sure that they are not suffering ongoing trauma for a longer period. BUSHFIRES AND SMALL BUSINESS SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY (17:11:56): I make a very limited contribution to the take-note debate. In relation to the answer given by the Minister for Finance and Small Business about small business and bushfire recovery, the Opposition absolutely concurs that small business plays a pivotal role in bushfire recovery. The ability of small businesses to get back on their feet will be a sign of how fast communities are getting back on their feet. The information that the Minister provided to the House is useful in establishing some baselines for how we can track that progress over time. I join the shadow Treasurer in saying that the faster insurance companies pay out, the more stimulus there will be for small business that is not coming from government and the more likely it is that private sector demand will return, jobs will come back into those communities and the communities will bounce back. It is vital that we get our small businesses back to health. A lot of bushfire-affected small businesses were already drought affected. They are now dealing with a triple whammy. If you happen to be a small business in the tourism industry in regional New South Wales, you might be dealing with bushfire, you might be dealing with drought and you might now also be dealing with the downturn in tourism that the State is experiencing due to the coronavirus. We would not wish that trifecta on any small business person. The Parliament, of course, has complete solidarity with small businesses that are going through those three crises. Turning to educational standards, I note that the Hon. Mark Latham earlier made the point that a child graduating from the school system in 2000 was likely to have five more terms of English instruction. I am part of the class of 2000. As members may know, the class of 2000 were not as perfect at the time as we now seem. I am the first to accept that. But it is deeply worrying that those who have come after us—our children, our nephews and nieces—are getting less basic education in our school system today than children were just 20 years ago. This is a leading indicator for economic performance. When standards fall in schools, economic growth suffers too. That will disproportionately hurt small businesses that are far more reliant on the public education system—and the private education system, for that matter—to generate skilled labour, productivity growth and income. This is not just a serious crisis for our education system but a looming crisis for our economy as well. SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. (17:14:36): Today in question time the education Minister was asked about the curriculum review. She referred to the Programme for International Student Assessment [PISA] test results that were released over the parliamentary break—as did a number of other members. It is important to note that compared with students from the top performer, Singapore, Australian students who sat the test last year were three years behind in maths, a year and three months behind in reading and a year and nine months behind in scientific literacy. For the very first time Australians did not make the OECD average in maths. We are not leading the world here: We are not even keeping up with averages. We are now slipping behind and our children are suffering the consequences. The Minister said it is her number one priority. That is all very well to say but it is too little too late. These results are a direct consequence of what has happened on this Government's watch. This has happened as a result of nine years of this Government's failed policies. Even the curriculum review that was announced today was first proposed by our then shadow Minister, Jihad Dib, in October 2018. He talked about clearing up the curriculum. He talked about reviewing the HSC. He talked about the fact that it had not been reviewed for 20 years. Now, after nine years in government and after these unbelievable results that place us not at the top of the field or even holding up the middle but staring towards the tail, this Government announces a curriculum review and hangs its hat on that. It is too little too late. We used to lead the world. We used to lead the country. We are no longer doing that. It is all very well for the Minister to say that this is her number one priority but she has been left with nine years of neglect and failing policies by the Liberal-Nationals Government. We used to give our children an education to compete on the international stage. Our children deserve better. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4229

SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM (17:16:49): My colleagues have contributed well to this debate. I will briefly respond to the education Minister's answer on education results. The most concerning result to me was the crash in the reading ability of New South Wales school students. In the Programme for International Student Assessment [PISA] tests from 2000 to 2018, we have gone from second in the country to fifth. It is a devastating blow to see New South Wales slip back over that period. The Hon. Daniel Mookhey is absolutely right. In reading, science and maths, we are now in the second half. We are the tailenders when it comes to education results around the country. I worked for a little while in education policy for the Queensland Government. It would be of some surprise to the Queenslanders that they are outstripping New South Wales. When I was there, they would have been shocked to hear that down the track they would be in the first half of the table and New South Wales would be dragging the chain on those results. I always like hearing the Minister's answers. She is one of the better Ministers in the Government. I do not accept that she has addressed these results in this House. Her answer today went further than she has before and she said that there is a problem here. But unless we are up-front about how big the problem is, we cannot tackle it. That is why we have to be up-front about it. After listening to the Minister's answer, I am no clearer on what the problem is. What does the Government regard as the problem? Is it the curriculum? Is it teacher education? Is it funding? I am no clearer, having listened to the Minister, on what the Government regards as the issue. I would be very interested to hear about it. Teachers are feeling under pressure. Parents are very worried. My colleague the Hon. Daniel Mookhey was 100 per cent right when talking about the impact on the economy. That was always true. It was always the case that education was important to the economy. It has never been truer than today. If you are not in the human capital game in 2020, just give it up. This is where the future of the State lies. We have to get serious about this. I look forward to the Minister's answers on this question in future. BATEMANS MARINE PARK Mr JUSTIN FIELD (17:19:33): I take note of some answers to questions I placed on notice to the primary industries Minister late last year. On 12 December Minister Adam Marshall and local member for Bega Andrew Constance announced that four marine sanctuary areas would be opened up to recreational fishing in the Batemans Marine Park. This came as a total surprise to many in the community there as there is a review underway into the future management of the marine park and consultations had just started. I asked some questions of the agricultural Minister and wanted to put some of those on the record to give members of this House a sense of the nature of the process that the Government went through. My first question asked, "Was the Marine Estate Management Authority consulted about the proposal to open a number of sanctuary zones to fishing in the Batemans Bay marine park?" Of course, the Marine Estate Management Authority is the organisation that the Government established to advise it about the threats and risks to the marine environment and advise on mechanisms for addressing those risks. The answer stated, "The authority and knowledge panel"—the expert committee set up as part of the authority—"will be consulted during the development of the draft rules", which is obviously the implementation of the policy that it had announced. My second question asked, "Was the Batemans Marine Park advisory committee consulted about the proposal to open up a number of sanctuary zones to fishing in the Batemans Marine Park before the announcement?" Of course, the advisory committee is set up by the Government to advise it about how the local community feels about these issues. It is made up of representatives of the different interest groups there. The advisory committee had not been re-established but the members were still being engaged—but still not entirely filled. The answer stated, "The department undertook targeted consultation, including with former members of the Batemans Marine Park advisory committee." I think we can get a sense of where that targeting might have been directed. My third question asked, "Were Batemans Marine Park staff consulted about the proposal to open a number of sanctuary zones to fishing in the Batemans Marine Park?" The answer stated, "Marine park staff and Department of Planning, Industry and Environment staff were notified on 12 December 2019." That was the day of the announcement. These staff members were expected to implement the announcement and had not even been informed that the Government was considering making these changes. Then I asked how much money had been allocated to the implementation of the announcement. The answer stated, "Temporary corflute signage is being installed at key access points, totalling $669. Permanent signage will be updated later." People could be fined for failing to adhere to the rules of the marine park. This is why communities get furious about the approach that this Government takes when it comes to marine park protections. It undermines public confidence. It undermines confidence in the staff members who have to manage this. This is a joke of an announcement. It is a joke of a process. This decision is a cruel joke for the marine environment and should be reversed. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4230

SCHOOL STUDENT ASSESSMENT RESULTS The Hon. ANTHONY D'ADAM (17:22:47): I take note of the answer provided by the education Minister in relation to the declining results in our education system. I was part of the recent inquiry that heard a lot about evidence-based teaching practices. All members agree that we should be guided by the evidence in public policymaking. Listening to the answer of the Minister, I was waiting for the explanation about what is going on. Ultimately, the explanation for what is causing this problem should be the start of the process for examining the evidence around a remedy. However, what I heard were a couple of suggestions—one around teacher education and one around the curriculum review—that were somehow going to solve the problem. Without an understanding of what is causing the problem these solutions may be ill founded. I particularly take exception to the proposal regarding the threshold around teacher education, not so much because I do not think good people should not be entering into the teaching profession but because the implicit criticism in that suggestion is that there is something fundamentally wrong with the teaching cohort that we have. I totally reject that. A proposition such as that advanced by the Government should be firmly grounded in the evidence. In the inquiry we put this question to the department and the question has been put to the Minister. No-one seems to have an answer. That suggests to me that no-one is asking the right questions. Until we ask the right questions I do not think we are going to be able to remedy the trend of decline in our education system. TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women) (17:25:05): I point out a few discrepancies in the Hon. Tara Moriarty's contribution to the take-note debate. On 9 January the Government announced new money specifically for mental health in the bushfire recovery. It was a total of $11.25 million worth of new money for new clinicians in bushfire-affected communities across six local health districts. To say that the Government has not given any new money is simply incorrect. There is also funding for school counsellors. The honourable member referred to the announcement of school counsellors and 350 student support officers, with bushfire-affected schools prioritised. There were also comments made about Professor McFarlane, insinuating that we were waiting to listen to him before doing something. That is untrue. What we need to do is not impose things on communities but actually listen to them as to what they need. The extra $11.25 million was part of the initial trauma response to put in extra clinicians to help at that time. Those local health districts coming down has been one of the most positive experiences for mental health clinicians across our LHDs and I think that we should look at that sharing of expertise in the long term. I encourage members of this House to speak to those local health districts and the clinicians. You do not have to take it from me. I know because I have spoken to them how much it has meant to them and how much they have learned. That has been a really good contribution. Just last week we also announced $500,000 for Lifeline's bushfire phone number. That is a big investment. I am sure the honourable member joins me in commending Lifeline for the incredible work it does. That is new money and a new phone line for people in those affected areas. I think it is important that members are factual in their comments. I know that we all want the best for these communities and we have a big job to do. It was also said during debate that it is not just about bricks and mortar. We know from clear evidence that helping people rebuild their lives is going to contribute to good long-term mental health outcomes. It is really important and is the thing that people tell us about on the ground. I think that this is going to be a long journey, as the honourable member said, but I will be standing beside these communities as the mental health Minister and we will make sure we implement what they need at the time that they need it. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion agreed to. Deferred Answers STATE BUDGET AND RURAL FIRE SERVICE In reply to Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (12 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: In 2018-19, the capital budget included a number of significant one-off investments: • $17.5 million for the completion of the NSW Rural Fire Service Headquarters; • $26.3 million for the purchase of a 737 Large Air Tanker and lead planes; and Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4231

• $5 million to upgrade IT systems to better coordinate bushfire responses. The difference from the 2018-19 Revised Budget to what was announced in 2019-20 is explained by the fact that no allocation is made for Natural Disaster expenses, as it is impossible to know the number or magnitude of natural disasters that will occur. The New South Wales Government operates a Disaster Relief Account, held in the Office of Emergency Management within the Department of Communities and Justice, which reimburses the costs of declared natural disasters as costs incurred. This practice has been in place for many years. BUSHFIRES AND NATIONAL PARKS In reply to the Hon. MARK BANASIAK (12 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Over the four-year period from 2015—2019 the National Parks and Wildlife Service [NPWS] undertook 75 per cent of all prescribed burning in New South Wales, despite managing only 9 per cent of land in New South Wales. The extent of bushfires this season is exceptional, influenced by the severity of the drought and its impact on vegetation. NPWS staff have, as at 28 November, contributed more than 20,000 staff days to fighting bushfires this season, including fighting fires that are not on national parks and did not start on national parks. In doing so, NPWS works in close collaboration with the Rural Fire Service. When the immediate risk to life and property has dissipated, NPWS will conduct a review to identify any steps that can be taken to further enhance its capacity to contribute to hazard reduction (prescribed burning) and to respond to any bushfires. BUSHFIRES AND BUILDING CLADDING SAFETY In reply to the Hon. (12 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: Fire and Rescue NSW is always at a state of readiness to respond rapidly to a range of threats, including cladding and structure fires, bushfires, hazmat incidents, terrorist threats, natural disasters requiring humanitarian relief, rescues and medical emergencies. On 12 November 2019 Fire and Rescue NSW enacted a number of contingencies to ensure there were sufficient operational resources available throughout New South Wales. This included:  ensuring all operational fire trucks were staffed and available in areas of catastrophic fire danger;  an additional 16 fire trucks from the training academy and spare fleet were brought online and staffed;  interstate assistance was also provided from the Melbourne Metropolitan Fire Brigade, who provided five fire trucks and crew to backfill five Fire and Rescue NSW fire stations, so those crews could be deployed if necessary. On that day 17 strike teams, comprising 68 appliances and 272 personnel, were assembled and deployed to a range of incidents, including house fires and hazmat incidents as well as bushfires. Q FEVER In reply to the Hon. (12 November 2019). In reply to the Hon. WALT SECORD (12 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: The use of drink coasters came strongly recommended from organisations representing communities at risk. Distribution was based on those organisations' recommendations. As distribution increases, evaluation to assess the success of the campaign will be undertaken. Funding of $200,000 was provided to support early research to develop a vaccine that does not require pre-vaccination testing so that Q fever vaccination will be easier and more accessible. However, funding of routine vaccination programs is the responsibility of the Australian Government through the National Immunisation Program. At the most recent meeting of Australian health Ministers, Ministers agreed that the Australian Health Minister's Advisory Council should consider the development of a national approach to Q fever control. STATE BUDGET SUBMISSIONS In reply to the Hon. PETER PRIMROSE (12 November 2019). The Hon. DAMIEN TUDEHOPE (Minister for Finance and Small Business)—The Minister provided the following response: Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4232

Ministers and their departments receive submissions from relevant community organisations throughout the year, and meet with representatives of such organisations so as to understand their concerns and ideas. These discussions then inform Ministers' budget priorities and submissions to the budget process. Information on the format and timing of submissions to Ministers and departments is best obtained from the Minister or department concerned. EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES In reply to the Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (12 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The Educational Facilities Standards and Guidelines [EFSG] were introduced in 2016 as a guide to inform the process of education facility planning and design. The guidelines are continually reviewed and updated to ensure they align with contemporary design practice and standards. While it sets out guidelines, operational and site requirements are also taken into consideration when designing new schools. Many of the current 2,200 public schools in New South Wales were in existence prior to the creation of the EFSG. The EFSG was not developed to be a minimum standard or an indication of entitlement. It should therefore not be used as a benchmark by which current schools are assessed. SCHOOLS DROUGHT ASSISTANCE PACKAGE In reply to the Hon. ADAM SEARLE (13 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The Department of Education's list of drought affected schools for 2020 is split into two categories: those whose entitlement is guaranteed by default (220 schools which are in intense drought and isolated areas); and those who may request for maintenance by application (36 schools which are on the border of drought-affected areas and are able to apply for maintained entitlement consideration). While the list of schools is not publicly available, it is included at Tab A. Schools which are not on the department's identified drought-affected schools list may apply under special consideration with their Director's approval if they believe their enrolments have been affected by the drought conditions. School full name Eligible for staffing entitlement maintenance in 2020 Timbumburi Public School Automatically eligible Alma Public School Automatically eligible Attunga Public School Automatically eligible Balranald Central School Automatically eligible Baradine Central School Automatically eligible Barellan Central School Automatically eligible Barham Public School Automatically eligible Barmedman Public School Automatically eligible Barooga Public School Automatically eligible Barraba Central School Automatically eligible Beckom Public School Automatically eligible Bedgerabong Public School Automatically eligible Beelbangera Public School Automatically eligible Bellata Public School Automatically eligible Berrigan Public School Automatically eligible Bingara Central School Automatically eligible Binnaway Central School Automatically eligible Binya Public School Automatically eligible Blighty Public School Automatically eligible Bogan Gate Public School Automatically eligible Boggabilla Central School Automatically eligible Boggabri Public School Automatically eligible Booligal Public School Automatically eligible Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4233

Boomi Public School Automatically eligible Boree Creek Public School Automatically eligible Bourke Public School Automatically eligible Brewarrina Central School Automatically eligible Broken Hill Public School Automatically eligible Broken Hill North Public School Automatically eligible Bunnaloo Public School Automatically eligible Burke Ward Public School Automatically eligible Burren Junction Public School Automatically eligible Caragabal Public School Automatically eligible Carinda Public School Automatically eligible Carrathool Public School Automatically eligible Carroll Public School Automatically eligible Cobar Public School Automatically eligible Collarenebri Central School Automatically eligible Conargo Public School Automatically eligible Condobolin Public School Automatically eligible Coonabarabran Public School Automatically eligible Coonamble Public School Automatically eligible Buronga Public School Automatically eligible Curlewis Public School Automatically eligible Currabubula Public School Automatically eligible Dareton Public School Automatically eligible Darlington Point Public School Automatically eligible Delungra Public School Automatically eligible Duri Public School Automatically eligible Euabalong West Public School Automatically eligible Eumungerie Public School Automatically eligible Euston Public School Automatically eligible Fairfax Public School Automatically eligible Forbes Public School Automatically eligible Ganmain Public School Automatically eligible Garah Public School Automatically eligible Gilgandra Public School Automatically eligible Girilambone Public School Automatically eligible Gol Gol Public School Automatically eligible Goodooga Central School Automatically eligible Goolgowi Public School Automatically eligible Gravesend Public School Automatically eligible Griffith Public School Automatically eligible Gulargambone Central School Automatically eligible Gunnedah Public School Automatically eligible Gwabegar Public School Automatically eligible Hanwood Public School Automatically eligible Hay Public School Automatically eligible Hermidale Public School Automatically eligible Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4234

Hillston Central School Automatically eligible Ivanhoe Central School Automatically eligible Jerilderie Public School Automatically eligible Kootingal Public School Automatically eligible Lake Cargelligo Central School Automatically eligible Lake Wyangan Public School Automatically eligible Leeton Public School Automatically eligible Lightning Ridge Central School Automatically eligible Lockhart Central School Automatically eligible Mathoura Public School Automatically eligible Matong Public School Automatically eligible Mayrung Public School Automatically eligible Menindee Central School Automatically eligible Moama Public School Automatically eligible Moonbi Public School Automatically eligible Moree Public School Automatically eligible Moulamein Public School Automatically eligible Mullaley Public School Automatically eligible Mungindi Central School Automatically eligible Naradhan Public School Automatically eligible Narrabri Public School Automatically eligible Narrabri West Public School Automatically eligible Narrandera Public School Automatically eligible Narromine Public School Automatically eligible Nemingha Public School Automatically eligible North Star Public School Automatically eligible Nyngan Public School Automatically eligible Oaklands Central School Automatically eligible Pallamallawa Public School Automatically eligible Parkes Public School Automatically eligible Peak Hill Central School Automatically eligible Pilliga Public School Automatically eligible Pomona Public School Automatically eligible Quambone Public School Automatically eligible Quandialla Central School Automatically eligible Rankins Springs Public School Automatically eligible Savernake Public School Automatically eligible Somerton Public School Automatically eligible Spring Ridge Public School Automatically eligible Tallimba Public School Automatically eligible Tambar Springs Public School Automatically eligible Tamworth Public School Automatically eligible Tamworth West Public School Automatically eligible Tharbogang Public School Automatically eligible Tibooburra Outback Public School Automatically eligible Tintinhull Public School Automatically eligible Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4235

Tocumwal Public School Automatically eligible Tooleybuc Central School Automatically eligible Toomelah Public School Automatically eligible Tooraweenah Public School Automatically eligible Tottenham Central School Automatically eligible Trangie Central School Automatically eligible Trundle Central School Automatically eligible Tullamore Central School Automatically eligible Tullibigeal Central School Automatically eligible Ungarie Central School Automatically eligible Urana Public School Automatically eligible Wakool Burraboi Public School Automatically eligible Walgett Community College - Primary School Automatically eligible Walhallow Public School Automatically eligible Wamoon Public School Automatically eligible Wanaaring Public School Automatically eligible Warialda Public School Automatically eligible Warren Central School Automatically eligible Weethalle Public School Automatically eligible Wee Waa Public School Automatically eligible Wentworth Public School Automatically eligible Westdale Public School Automatically eligible White Cliffs Public School Automatically eligible Whitton-Murrami Public School Automatically eligible Wilcannia Central School Automatically eligible Wyalong Public School Automatically eligible West Wyalong Public School Automatically eligible Yanco Public School Automatically eligible Yenda Public School Automatically eligible Yetman Public School Automatically eligible Yoogali Public School Automatically eligible Rowena Public School Automatically eligible Louth Public School Automatically eligible Enngonia Public School Automatically eligible Oxley Vale Public School Automatically eligible Croppa Creek Public School Automatically eligible Tamworth South Public School Automatically eligible Palinyewah Public School Automatically eligible Finley Public School Automatically eligible Gunnedah South Public School Automatically eligible Griffith North Public School Automatically eligible Middleton Public School Automatically eligible Forbes North Public School Automatically eligible Deniliquin South Public School Automatically eligible Moree East Public School Automatically eligible Parkes East Public School Automatically eligible Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4236

Narrandera East Infants School Automatically eligible Tulloona Public School Automatically eligible Bullarah Public School Automatically eligible Morgan Street Public School Automatically eligible Railway Town Public School Automatically eligible Mallawa Public School Automatically eligible Griffith East Public School Automatically eligible Deniliquin North Public School Automatically eligible Weilmoringle Public School Automatically eligible Coleambally Central School Automatically eligible Parkview Public School Automatically eligible Edward Public School Automatically eligible Hillvue Public School Automatically eligible Marra Creek Public School Automatically eligible Clare Public School Automatically eligible Bourke-Walgett School of Distance Education Automatically eligible School of the Air Automatically eligible G S Kidd Memorial School Automatically eligible Kalinda School Automatically eligible Gralee School Automatically eligible Warrumbungle National Park Environmental Education Centre Automatically eligible Barwon Learning Centre Automatically eligible Manilla Central School Automatically eligible Broken Hill High School Automatically eligible Farrer Memorial Agricultural High School Automatically eligible Murrumbidgee Regional High School Automatically eligible Hay War Memorial High School Automatically eligible Tamworth High School Automatically eligible Yanco Agricultural High School Automatically eligible Parkes High School Automatically eligible Leeton High School Automatically eligible Narrandera High School Automatically eligible Narrabri High School Automatically eligible Gunnedah High School Automatically eligible Forbes High School Automatically eligible Deniliquin High School Automatically eligible Wee Waa High School Automatically eligible Moree Secondary College Albert St Automatically eligible Condobolin High School Automatically eligible Coonabarabran High School Automatically eligible Gilgandra High School Automatically eligible Nyngan High School Automatically eligible Bourke High School Automatically eligible Cobar High School Automatically eligible Finley High School Automatically eligible West Wyalong High School Automatically eligible Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4237

Coonamble High School Automatically eligible Oxley High School Automatically eligible Barham High School Automatically eligible Narromine High School Automatically eligible Moree Secondary College Carol Ave Campus Automatically eligible Walgett Community College - High School Automatically eligible Willyama High School Automatically eligible Coomealla High School Automatically eligible Warialda High School Automatically eligible Peel High School Automatically eligible Pooncarie Public School Automatically eligible Ashford Central School Eligible to Apply Ballimore Public School Eligible to Apply Blackville Public School Eligible to Apply Bonshaw Public School Eligible to Apply Bribbaree Public School Eligible to Apply Brocklesby Public School Eligible to Apply Bundarra Central School Eligible to Apply Coolah Central School Eligible to Apply Dubbo Public School Eligible to Apply Dubbo North Public School Eligible to Apply Dunedoo Central School Eligible to Apply Dubbo South Public School Eligible to Apply Geurie Public School Eligible to Apply Gilgai Public School Eligible to Apply Gum Flat Public School Eligible to Apply Inverell Public School Eligible to Apply Kingstown Public School Eligible to Apply Mendooran Central School Eligible to Apply Pleasant Hills Public School Eligible to Apply Rand Public School Eligible to Apply Ross Hill Public School Eligible to Apply Tingha Public School Eligible to Apply Walbundrie Public School Eligible to Apply Werris Creek Public School Eligible to Apply Wongarbon Public School Eligible to Apply Yeoval Central School Eligible to Apply Dubbo West Public School Eligible to Apply Mingoola Public School Eligible to Apply Orana Heights Public School Eligible to Apply Dubbo School of Distance Education Eligible to Apply Buninyong Public School Eligible to Apply Dubbo College Senior Campus Eligible to Apply Inverell High School Eligible to Apply Dubbo College South Campus Eligible to Apply Macintyre High School Eligible to Apply Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4238

Dubbo College Delroy Campus Eligible to Apply FIRE HAZARD REDUCTION CONTRACTORS In reply to Reverend the Hon. (13 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The contribution of community members to the work done by emergency services is immensely valuable and appreciated by the New South Wales Government. The New South Wales Government has ensured that our fire agencies have significant resources available across the State. In 2019-20, the New South Wales Government will spend more than $1.7 billion to combat emergencies and disasters, committing an unprecedented $105 million in extra funding to enhance rescue capabilities across the State. In addition, on 12 November 2019 fire resources from the State of Victoria were staged in strategic locations across New South Wales to assist our fire agencies to respond. Contractors are used by our fire agencies from time to time, and remains an operational matter. My office is happy to meet with you and your office to discuss this and other matters you may have further. GREYHOUND RACING INDUSTRY In reply to the Hon. MARK PEARSON (13 November 2019). The Hon. DAMIEN TUDEHOPE (Minister for Finance and Small Business)—The Minister provided the following response: The New South Wales Government is committed to a sustainable greyhound racing industry that meets community expectations of animal welfare. The Greyhound Welfare & Integrity Commission is responsible for driving improved animal welfare standards and is committed to implementing whole-of-life tracking, consistent with recommendations of the Greyhound Industry Reform Panel. REGIONAL EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION In reply to the Hon. MICK VEITCH (13 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The New South Wales Government understands the importance of early childhood education and is committed to ensuring that all children in New South Wales get the best start in life regardless of where they live. Evidence shows that participation in a quality early childhood education program supports children's early learning and development, future academic success and overall life outcomes. The New South Wales Government invests in a number of programs to enhance the inclusion of all children in early childhood education. The Community Safety Net program has been established to support children in very remote regions in New South Wales. The program provides a mechanism to establish early childhood education programs in New South Wales's very remote communities that are currently without access to an early education. Through the program an appropriate organisation is engaged to support all aspects of establishing an early childhood education program in eligible communities, with an emphasis on community engagement and capacity building. Through the Community Safety Net program the organisation selected by the New South Wales Department of Education is funded over a two-year period to work with the identified community to establish an early education service, and to provide support on the establishment and operation of the service. During the second year, the new service is transitioned to an established early childhood education funding program, such as Service Safety Net or a mobile community preschool contract. This will ensure that the new services are supported towards sustainable service delivery. This new innovative program by the New South Wales Government was trialled in 2017 in the community of Weilmoringle, which is a small Aboriginal community located over 100 kilometres north of Brewarrina. Community Connection Solutions Australia [CCSA] who have over 50 years of experience in the early education sector were selected as the lead organisation to support the establishment of the early education service in Weilmoringle. Working closely with the local communities, Elders, families, the Weilmoringle Public School and the New South Wales Government, CCSA established the Weilmoringle early education working group. This group identified an appropriate venue for the early education service and an organisation with established links to the local community to become the early education service provider. The Gidgee Preschool in Weilmoringle opened on 13 August 2018 and is providing 600 hours of preschool education to Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal children. We are now working with Louth and Wanaaring communities to establish an early education program. Currently, the department is in the process of establishing a Wanaaring Community Preschool Working Group and is working closely with the Louth Preschool Working Group. These groups are made up of departmental staff, CCSA staff, families, community members and key stakeholders to provide a forum for all stakeholders to work together on the project. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4239

By engaging appropriate organisations to work with communities at a local level, the program provides local solutions that are sustainable and adaptable to the needs of unique communities. The department has also identified other communities without access to early childhood education services which met the criteria for the Community Safety Net program. These are Tibooburra, Marra Creek, White Cliffs, Bulla, Hungerford (NSW), Tilpa, Kulwin, Milparinka, Noona and Ivanhoe. The department is investigating the most appropriate next steps for the remaining communities without access to early childhood education. COMMERCIAL FISHING INDUSTRY In reply to the Hon. MARK BANASIAK (14 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Professor Barclay has a long history in researching aspects of fisheries and is well placed to undertake the assessment. NSW NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE SERVICE In reply to the Hon. ROBERT BORSAK (14 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Over the four-year period from 2015-19, the National Parks and Wildlife Service [NPWS] undertook 75 per cent of all prescribed burning in New South Wales, despite managing only 9 per cent of land in New South Wales. Hazard reduction burning in New South Wales is regulated under the Bush Fire Environmental Assessment Code 2006, made under the Rural Fires Act 1997 and administered by the Rural Fires Service. The code specifies fire intervals for various fire management zones. NPWS complies with the threshold intervals specified in the code when undertaking hazard reduction work. SCHOOLS ASBESTOS MANAGEMENT PLAN In reply to the Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (14 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised that local asbestos registers are regularly updated. There are annual updates which are planned for issue before the end of term 1 each year. In periods where a large number of changes are made to asbestos registers, there may be additional updates during the year. STOCKTON BEACH In reply to Ms ABIGAIL BOYD (14 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Since 2011 the New South Wales Government has awarded the City of Newcastle Council over $1.5 million to assist them address issues across their region's coastline, which includes funding to prepare a Coastal Management Program for its coastal zone, including Stockton Beach. The Coastal Management Program will consider long-term management options. SCHOOLS ASBESTOS MANAGEMENT PLAN In reply to the Hon. ANTHONY D'ADAM (14 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The health, safety and well-being of students, staff and the community is the Department of Education's highest priority. When the presence of asbestos is reported, immediate action is taken by the department to protect public health, including isolating the area and engaging a licensed contractor to remediate the site to SafeWork NSW safety standards. Where asbestos has been identified as posing an immediate risk to the health and safety of students, the department's procedures are implemented as a matter of priority. These procedures include isolation and quarantining of the affected area and the engagement of an independent, expert hygienist to undertake testing and development of a remediation plan. A student found a fragment suspected to contain asbestos at Parramatta East Public School. The student's parent provided the fragment to the principal reporting that it was found at school. The principal immediately contacted the Department of Education's Asset Management Unit [AMU] and restricted access to the affected area as a safety measure. Students, staff and the community were isolated from the area. A hygienist was engaged to undertake testing and provide a recommendation to remediate the affected area. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4240

The fragment was found to be bonded asbestos, and remediation was then undertaken. Following the remediation a Clearance Certificate was issued to allow access to the area. This account shows that the school leadership and the AMU followed the protocols and procedures put in place by the department. SCHOOLS ASBESTOS MANAGEMENT PLAN In reply to the Hon. JOHN GRAHAM (14 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The health, safety and wellbeing of students, staff and neighbours is the Department of Education's highest priority. When the presence of asbestos is reported, immediate action is taken by the department to protect public health, including isolating the area and engaging a licensed contractor to remediate the site to SafeWork NSW safety standards. Where asbestos has been identified as posing an immediate risk to the health and safety of students, the department's procedures are implemented as a matter of priority. These procedures include isolation and quarantining of the affected area and the engagement of an independent, expert hygienist to undertake testing and development of a remediation plan. The department's procedures have been followed diligently by the school and the Asset Management Unit [AMU] in relation to the material found at Scone Public School and at no time were students and staff at risk. The principal worked with the local Asset Management Unit in reporting the incident. The Asset Management Unit secured the area and engaged an environmental hygienist and contractor to attend the site to inspect the area. They set up an exclusion zone, undertook initial remediation of the area, and tested the fragment, which was found to be bonded asbestos. As a precautionary measure, the hygienist undertook testing of soil samples which were found to be negative for friable asbestos. As Scone Public School is in drought, the AMU and school principal opted to maintain the fenced exclusion zone as a safety measure. The hygienist also prepared a full written report which included the remediation scope. The area remains fenced as a mitigation strategy. The remediation scope recommends encapsulation which is currently being designed and documented to determine the extent of new concrete hard court, synthetic turf and garden areas to remediate the area. The current program indicates the works to be in construction and completed for term 2 2020. This account shows that the school leadership and the AMU followed the protocols and procedures put in place by the department. OAK FLATS HIGH SCHOOL In reply to the Hon. GREG DONNELLY (14 November 2019). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council)—The Minister provided the following response: Lucy is a six-year-old cow that belongs to Oak Flats High School. The year 12 students studying Vocational Education and Training-Primary Industries raised her. A number of these students were part of the birthing process when she was born. The students used temporary non-toxic cattle marking paint to write a message on Lucy and included her in a photograph with them on their final day of year 12. Cattle marking paint is completely safe to use on animals. It is designed to be a temporary marker. Lucy is used to being handled by students. I can assure you that at no point was any harm done to Lucy. Lucy was washed the following morning before school. It took approximately 15 minutes to remove the paint and she was returned to happily graze in the paddock. Oak Flats High School apologise for any distress this matter may have caused. PUBLIC SCHOOL SUSPENSIONS In reply to the Hon. PENNY SHARPE (19 November 2019). In reply to the Hon. WALT SECORD (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The Department of Education is committed to safeguarding the wellbeing of students and staff in our schools, including students who have additional learning or behaviour needs. The Behaviour Strategy will be informed by an independent evidence review, conducted for the department by the Telethon Kids Institute. The findings of that review will be made public. The Behaviour Strategy will be finalised in the first half of 2020. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4241

Teachers have qualifications in education which includes units to prepare them to meet the needs of students enrolled in New South Wales public schools. As part of their training, teachers may have completed units on disability, have taught students with disability as part of their practicums and some teachers do have post graduate qualifications in special education. The department provides a range of professional learning options to support teachers in New South Wales public schools in responding to the diverse needs of students with disability and additional learning and support needs. This includes training courses on the Disability Standards for Education of which over 92,000 have been completed by department staff. In these eLearning courses ADHD is addressed in the context of the Disability Discrimination Act. The recently released Disability Progress Report reflects a commitment for this disability training to become mandatory for principals. The department also provides a suite of eight professional learning courses that are facilitated by department-trained tutors to extend the capability of schools and their staff in responding to key areas of disability. These include personalised learning, motor coordination difficulties, understanding and supporting student behaviour, student wellbeing and mental health and autism. These courses have been completed by over 26,000 department staff. The department updates course content on an ongoing basis to ensure it is relevant to the needs of school staff. For example, in response to the need for information on ADHD, additional relevant content, web links and classroom resources for teachers have recently added to these courses. The courses include an understanding of ADHD alongside other conditions. The department has also undertaken to provide training to over 1,000 staff in trauma informed practice by the end of 2019 and this will then extend to more staff in 2020. While not all children have trauma in their backgrounds, there will be some techniques from this training that will assist in managing behaviour in classrooms more generally. As part of the Disability Strategy the department is also considering what other professional learning will assist our teachers to support students in classrooms. NSW HEALTH DATA In reply to Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (19 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Yes. The eHealth Strategy for NSW Health 2016-26 identifies a range of digital enablers for safe, high quality, integrated healthcare, as well as the use of data and analytics, as key focus areas for NSW Health over the next 10 years. PUBLIC SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE In reply to the Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The department uses demountable toilet facilities to manage periodic fluctuations in enrolment. In cases of sustained and stable enrolment, demountable facilities are replaced with permanent facilities. Modular and temporary toilet facilities are installed during major and minor capital works. They are installed and managed by external parties during the period of construction. AERIAL FIREFIGHTING In reply to the Hon. MARK PEARSON (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: The New South Wales Government is committed to ensuring our firefighters have the tools they need year round to help protect lives and property. I am advised that New South Wales is the only Australian State or Territory which owns its own Large Air Tanker [LAT]. The NSW RFS budget for the 2019/20 fire season enabled two LATs to be leased in addition to this LAT purchased by the NSW RFS. The NSW RFS has now also leased a Very Large Air Tanker [VLAT] and a further LAT for the 2019/20 fire season, given the prolonged drought, forecast weather conditions and the already busy operational period across New South Wales. This is the greatest number of LATs and VLAs engaged in a fire season in New South Wales. NSW POLICE FORCE STRIP SEARCH PRACTICES In reply to Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: Strip searches are an important tool for policing to prevent illicit drugs and weapons putting the lives of young people at risk. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4242

Police are not permitted to carry out a strip search unless they have a reasonable suspicion as well as there being urgent and serious circumstances. There are key safeguards and additional guidance to maintain the privacy and dignity of individuals, especially minors. The Deputy Coroner's recommendations will be carefully considered along with the findings from the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission [LECC] once their investigation into strip searches has concluded. While the number of strip searches has decreased in the last year, there is always more we can do to strengthen police responsibilities and safeguards to maintain the privacy and dignity of individuals. DISTANCE EDUCATION In reply to the Hon. SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE (19 November 2019). In reply to the Hon. MICK VEITCH (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: All registered government and non-government schools are funded and staffed to provide a broad curriculum that meets the needs of their school community. Single subject distance education supplements this resource and provides flexibility to offer subjects in addition to the schools local staff resource. Applications to access single subjects are managed through a quota based on the size and capacity of the school to deliver a broad curriculum from its own resources. This process advantages smaller schools that may not have capacity to staff elective subjects only a small number of students wish to study. The quota of distance education places applied to schools in New South Wales has always included the flexibility to provide additional places out of quota when additional student need has been identified. I am confident that the students of New South Wales are well served by this provision. I am advised that the Department of Education received correspondence on 11 November 2019 regarding the distance education quota for Tumut High School and is looking into the concerns raised by the parent. I am further advised that Tumut High School has sought support to document additional student need and has been able to expand its quota to meet this need for 2020. FIREARMS REGISTRY In reply to the Hon. MARK BANASIAK (19 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: No. Where additional information is required or there is a discrepancy with information provided by an applicant, the Firearms Registry makes every effort to contact the applicant by phone, email or post. Applications are processed in the date order they are received. Applicants are able to track the progress of their firearms application via https://apps.police.nsw.dov.au/FPR/licenceCheck/search.isp A key principle of the National Firearms Agreement and the NSW Firearms Act 1996 is that firearm possession and use is a privilege, conditional on the overriding need to ensure public safety. STUDENTS AND SOCIAL MEDIA In reply to the Hon. WALT SECORD (19 November 2019). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council)—The Minister provided the following response: The Department of Education works closely with Federal Government agencies, particularly the Office of the eSafety Commissioner, on a range of social media and online safety related initiatives which address issues such as the sending of inappropriate images, including teacher professional learning, training guides and other resources. In parallel with the national collaboration, the department is also progressing work independently to address cyber safety issues such as the sending of inappropriate images including:  The development of a new Digital Citizenship website, published on 23 May 2019. This website supports online safety for children and includes resources aimed at parents, teachers and students.  A pilot for restricting mobile digital device use in New South Wales public primary schools, with full implementation in 2020. The department is currently developing a new policy to support this implementation. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4243

 The development of the NSW Anti-bullying Strategy and website https://antibullying.nsw.gov.au/, provides evidence-based information, resources and professional learning to assist teachers, parents, and students to prevent bullying behaviours and respond effectively if bullying does occur. The department actively monitors emerging social media issues and provides advice and support to schools as required, including through its Digital Citizenship platform and the provision of legal advice. EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION In reply to the Hon. ADAM SEARLE (20 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: On 9 October 2019, the Department of Education released information on the funding provided for non-equity three-year-olds in community preschools to Australian Childcare Alliance [ACA] New South Wales, a peak body that represents for-profit long day care providers. The information released to ACA New South Wales does not include the number of three-year-old equity children attending a community preschool that receive funding from the New South Wales Government nor the three-year-olds that receive significant Child Care Subsidies in long day care services. Accordingly, the figure quoted by the Hon. Adam Searle is not correct. As I have stated previously, all three-year-old children enrolled in a community preschool in New South Wales are eligible for funding under Start Strong, which is in line with the New South Wales Government's election commitment. BUSHFIRES AND NATIONAL PARKS In reply to the Hon. ROBERT BORSAK (20 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: As a major land manager and one of the four recognised fire authorities in New South Wales, the National Parks and Wildlife Service [NPWS] is committed to managing bushfire and its associated risks across the landscape. It does this in partnership with other New South Wales fire authorities, the NSW Bush Fire Coordinating Committee, district bushfire management committees, adjoining landowners and the community. Over the four-year period from 2015-19, NPWS undertook 75 per cent of all prescribed burning in New South Wales, despite managing only 9 per cent of the land in New South Wales. NPWS undertakes more prescribed burning than all other agencies combined. In 2018-19 alone, NPWS undertook more than 137,000 hectares of hazard reduction burning. In addition, over the last five years, 85 per cent of fires that started on national park have been contained on national park. I am not aware of any science that supports a blanket approach of burning 10 per cent of the landscape each year in New South Wales. SYDNEY METRO NORTHWEST In reply to Ms ABIGAIL BOYD (20 November 2019). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: Both myself and Sydney Metro have met with the Council for Intellectual Disability to discuss their report on the Metro North West line. The New South Wales Government remains absolutely committed to delivering and operating a safe, accessible and inclusive integrated transport network. Sydney Metro and its operator for the Metro North West line, Metro Trains Sydney [MTS], have been consulting with accessibility groups since 2015 on station and train design in the delivery of this fully-accessible metro railway. In May 2015, the Accessible Transport Advisory Committee [ATAC] was advised that the new metro line would meet the minimum mandatory requirements for transport projects including:  Disability Access to Premises Standards [DSAPT].  Building Code of Australia.  Australian Standards # AS1428, AS2890 and AS1735.12. A prototype metro train was built and community groups, including disability access groups, were given tours through the train prototype and feedback was taken on board in the delivery phase. The prototype was also used as part of the project's stakeholder engagement program from 2016 to 2019. Wayfinding signage, help points, braille messaging and layout of tactile tiles were all reviewed and changes incorporated into final designs. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4244

Over the past 12 to 18 months Sydney Metro and MTS has partnered with Transport for NSW as well as ATAC to consult, collaborate and educate. This has been done in a number of ways including:  MTS worked closely with the vision impaired community to understand its issues and needs prior to opening and established a good working relationship.  Metro Experience Day for vulnerable community groups held in the lead up to the railway opening.  Specific education and exploration sessions at Cherrybrook and Tallawong stations (which included rides on the train) for disability organisations such as Nutcote and Inala.  Specific update and field trip for ATAC members.  Presenting each quarter at ATAUs meetings to effectively communicate any changes or address concerns/feedback provided.  MTS has instigated behavioural education campaigns to help people understand how the platform screen doors work. SYDNEY WATER In reply to Mr JUSTIN FIELD (20 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised by Sydney Water that the update to the Price Proposal in November 2019 will ensure essential services can continue to be provided throughout this unprecedented drought. Sydney Water has prepared for various drought scenarios with mechanisms in place to ensure business resilience, whilst keeping water bills fair and stable. Sydney Water will continue to work with its customers and the New South Wales Government to ensure water security for its five million customers. ARMIDALE SECONDARY COLLEGE In reply to the Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY (20 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: When the Armidale Secondary College redevelopment was announced in 2017, it was envisaged that the school would be refurbished with only some construction of new facilities. Based on this original concept, the estimated cost to deliver such a project was $65 million. During the process of preparing the strategic business case, the option to redevelop the existing school to an all-new future focused school emerged as the preferred option. The business case was subsequently approved by NSW Treasury in 2018 with a capital funding allocation of $131 million. As at 28 November 2019, the Armidale Secondary College redevelopment is on time and on budget. DOLPHIN MARINE CONSERVATION PARK In reply to the Hon. MARK PEARSON (20 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: Yes, Dolphin Marine Conservation Park holds a current authority under the Exhibited Animals Projection Act 1986 to exhibit seals. New South Wales Department of Primary Industries undertakes regular compliance audits of the facility to ensure compliance with the Exhibited Animals Protection Act 1986, and the welfare of their animals. Dolphin Marine Conservation Park is compliant with the Act and its seal enclosures meet prescribed spatial requirements. FORMER MEMBER FOR GOULBURN In reply to the Hon. MARK BANASIAK (21 November 2019). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council)—The Minister provided the following response: All Ministers, and former Ministers, must comply with the Ministerial Code of Conduct, and I expect them to do so. SCHOOL PLAYGROUNDS In reply to Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (21 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4245

The design intent through the Educational Facilities Standards and Guidelines focuses on maximising play space through school management. The management of a free play area, passive play/open area, a street frontage zone, active zone, passive zone, boundary zone, special function zone and services zone will vary according to the context of the school setting. In order to maximise place space a school may vary recess breaks and utilise local facilities such as council parks and ovals. When placing demountable buildings on school sites the Department of Education works with the school principal to minimise impact on play space. SCHOOL ENROLMENT POLICY In reply to the Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG (21 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: There are currently no school intake areas under review as a result of the revision of the School Enrolment Policy. Reviews of school intake areas are not related to the School Enrolment Policy. Reviews of school intake areas occur periodically, predominantly reflecting demographic changes. Changes are largely focused on ensuring students are able to attend their local school. FORMER MEMBER FOR GOULBURN In reply to the Hon. MARK BANASIAK (21 November 2019). The Hon. BRONNIE TAYLOR (Minister for Mental Health, Regional Youth and Women)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: My office and the Department of Planning, Industry and Environment have not received representations from the former member for Goulburn regarding the Bulahdelah Highway Service Centre planning proposal. Written Answers to Supplementary Questions SCHOOL ENROLMENT POLICY In reply to the Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (21 November 2019). The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning)—The Minister provided the following response: There are currently no school intake areas under review as a result of the revision of the School Enrolment Policy. Reviews of school intake areas are not related to the School Enrolment Policy. Reviews of school intake areas occur periodically, predominantly reflecting demographic changes. Changes are largely focused on ensuring students are able to attend their local school. Business of the House SUSPENSION OF STANDING AND SESSIONAL ORDERS The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That debate on a condolence motion moved this day under Standing Order 74 relating to the catastrophic and unprecedented bushfire season take precedence of all other business on the Notice Paper this day and until concluded or interrupted by the adjournment of the House on Wednesday 26 February 2020. Motion agreed to. Motions BUSHFIRES The Hon. DON HARWIN (Special Minister of State, Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (17:29:15): I move: That this House: (a) expresses its deepest condolences to the families, communities and loved ones of the 25 men and women who have tragically lost their lives during the catastrophic and unprecedented 2019-20 bushfire season; (b) honours the extraordinary sacrifice of Geoffrey Keaton, Andrew O'Dwyer and Samuel McPaul, Rural Fire Service volunteers who tragically lost their lives while protecting the lives and property of others; (c) places on the record its gratitude for the courage of Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Hudson and flight engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr of Coulson Aviation and the United States of America, who died in service to New South Wales; Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4246

(d) offers its sympathy to those who have been affected by the fires whether through injury or the loss of or damage to their homes or livelihoods; and (e) acknowledges the devastation caused by this season's bushfires, which has already seen 2,400 homes destroyed, over 11,000 buildings lost or damaged, 5.5 million hectares burnt, countless local businesses affected and hundreds of millions of animals killed. Through fires and floods, we have witnessed heartbreaking devastation of communities from the far north to the south of our State. The 2019-20 fires have scarred the landscape of New South Wales from Lismore to Merimbula, leaving nothing but ashes and trauma. Nearly every member in this place has been touched by the disasters of this summer, either personally or witnessing the communities we love and represent come under threat. As a former resident of Huskisson on the South Coast I remember well the effect of fires on Christmas Day 2000, which led to several houses being lost. However, the Christmas Day fires pale into comparison when one considers the devastation wrought on each of the communities around the State this summer, including those on the South Coast that I know and love so dearly. Shoalhaven City Council had 453 houses destroyed or damaged in the fires within its area of jurisdiction; Eurobodalla Shire Council had 500 houses destroyed, with another 274 severely damaged; in Bega Valley shire 574 houses were destroyed or damaged, with over 1,000 outbuildings lost. Recovery centres remain open to these communities in Bega, Batemans Bay and Ulladulla. My friend and ministerial colleague in the other place the member for South Coast had, in her words, "hell" unleashed on her electorate. The disaster unleashed on her community was the worst imaginable and I acknowledge her speech and, of course, those of other members in the Legislative Assembly in their last sitting week. Through drought, bushfires, dust storms and floods, almost every plague imaginable has impacted New South Wales this summer, destroying livestock and property and, sadly, causing loss of life. Even before our final sitting in November 2019, with the fires that were burning so close to Sydney and, of course, all through the northern part of our State, it was clear that we were living through one of the worst bushfire seasons on record. Since July over 11,000 bushfires and grassfires have consumed nearly 5.5 million hectares of the State. As at February, 13,729 head of livestock have been killed; over 600,000 hectares of pastoral land has been lost; 2,439 homes have been destroyed; and most tragically of all, 25 lives have been lost, including firefighters in the line of duty. Geoffrey Keaton, Andrew O'Dwyer and Samuel McPaul were all volunteers with the NSW Rural Fire Service. It takes something special to stand against the power of an oncoming firestorm and defend properties of people you have never met before. Our RFS, indeed all our emergency service volunteers, demonstrate the very best of Australian values, and they are embodied in those three heroes. The families who supported and loved their brave firefighters are now suffering the horrendous loss of loved ones who gave their lives for the community. I extend my condolences to each of them. I also pay tribute to three airmen from the United States who are also mourned among the firefighters lost this season. Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Clyde Hudson and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr lost their lives in the crash of the C-30 Large Air Tanker on 23 January after what seemed like an endless summer of tragedy. We pay our respects to those firefighters, indeed all people who lost their lives in this bushfire season, many of whom remained to defend their properties. Each and every person who gave support to our bushfire-ravaged communities is a hero in the eyes of the nation and our Parliament. Through the adversity of these last few months our State has pulled together, bringing out the best in every one of us. Many tourists have heeded the call to return to coastal towns with empty eskies to bring life back to the economies that are so reliant on summer visitation. As Minister responsible for Aboriginal affairs and for heritage, I have been particularly concerned about the impact of fires on our Aboriginal and shared heritage places and for the individual owners of affected heritage places. There have been fire impacts to Indigenous sites across the firegrounds and physical impact to those fragile sites. Scarred trees and rock art painting sites have been particularly affected. But there is also the surprising potential for new Aboriginal sites to have been exposed for perhaps the first time, obscured by bushland for so long, or previously visible with cultural burning. We all have to wait and see what emerges. The impact of the fires to land and country is felt all the harder by our Indigenous community. Twenty-four local Aboriginal land councils and community sites have been impacted by the fires. In particular I acknowledge the staff at Mogo Local Aboriginal Land Council who lost their offices in the South Coast fires over December. The New South Wales Government is assisting Indigenous communities seriously impacted by the bushfires through Aboriginal Affairs NSW, which, as honourable members will be aware, is a central agency in the Department of Premier and Cabinet. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4247

I noted in question time that the fires have also brought extensive damage to the Blue Mountains World Heritage area and the Gondwana Rainforests in northern New South Wales, both of which are on the State Heritage Register. The office of Heritage New South Wales is continuing to assess areas affected by the bushfires and assembling a complete record of heritage areas and properties affected by the fires. I took the opportunity in question time to thank the many public servants in the Department of Premier and Cabinet and other clusters who worked tirelessly over December and January to coordinate the Government's response to the fires. Their efforts have made a difference to many families recovering from this event. I also note the work of the Department of Premier and Cabinet in organising the State memorial service on Sunday—a very moving event and one very much appreciated by the families. I echo the words of the Premier, whose steadfast leadership has been widely acknowledged: We will come through this. We will support one another and we will rebuild our communities. This process is already underway as we begin the extraordinary clean-up required. Service NSW had its feet on the ground even as the disaster was unfolding and continues its engagement with communities affected by the fires through its mobile centres. It provides specialised recovery information to residents who have lost everything about how they can start to rebuild their lives and how this Government can help them. Most importantly, the New South Wales Government is taking the first step to ensuring that lessons are taken from this extraordinary event. The independent inquiry commissioned by the Premier will outline the key elements that contributed to this season, including fuel loads, human activity and climate change. It will also allow the public the opportunity to make submissions on the individual impact of these fires, providing an important avenue of recovery. I conclude by offering my sincerest thanks to every single firefighter, emergency service worker, volunteer and community member who has helped their State through this disaster. The stories that each of us has heard—and, indeed, our media outlets have done a very good job in bringing the stories to our attention—have been very, very moving. The efforts of the Rural Fire Service and its commissioner need to be noted. Their tireless efforts, day and night, becoming the face of emergency response to the fires will never be forgotten. You have the gratitude of the entire State behind you and the respect of every member of this House. I commend the motion to the House. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (17:41:00): On behalf of the Labor Opposition in this place, I associate the members on this side of the House with the motion moved by the Leader of the Government and I indicate our wholehearted support for the motion. Bushfires have ravaged our State and, as a result, so many of our residents and their communities are enduring terrible loss, pain and hardship. The magnitude of the bushfires we have experienced this season and the risks they have posed have been the most calamitous in our lifetime, I think, and they have changed our State forever. The motion refers to them as being unprecedented and other members have used the same term. Communities, landscapes, homes, wildlife and local businesses have all been devastated. I cannot remember another time when the whole east coast of Australia has been on fire as it was this season. As the Leader of the Government observed earlier today, the bushfire season has extended for some five months, that is, nearly half the year. While some have observed that we have always had drought on this continent and we have always had bushfires, they have not been like the drought and bushfires we have experienced this season. Heartbreakingly, 33 lives were lost across our nation and 25 lives were lost in New South Wales. On behalf of the Opposition, I offer our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those who tragically lost their loves ones. Our hearts break for you as we stand together with all the members in this House and the other place, united in expressing our enduring support for each and every one of you. On 19 December 2019 two brave heroes from Horsley Park Rural Fire Brigade—the brigade in which my colleague the member for Prospect, Dr Hugh McDermott, serves—were killed. Geoffrey Keaton, aged 32, and Andrew O'Dwyer, aged 36, tragically lost their lives in south-western Sydney, close to Buxton, in the line of duty. We extend our deepest condolences to Geoffrey's fiancée, Jess, and to their young son, Harvey, and also to Andrew's partner, Mel, and their young daughter, Charlotte. Samuel McPaul, a 28-year-old hero and member of Morven Rural Fire Brigade, lost his young life in the Green Valley fire in Jingellic, close to Albury, on 30 December 2019. We are distraught for his wife, Megan, who is expecting their first child in May. We pay tribute to the members of these fire brigades who continue to gallantly serve our communities even after those tragic losses. We will never forget the ultimate sacrifice these individuals have made in service to the wider community of New South Wales. As the Leader of the Government observed, they embody the best of the spirit of our communities. We are forever grateful for the outpouring of support that came from around the globe to help battle these fires. It was devastating that three United States aerial firefighters died when their C-130 air tanker crashed north-east of Cooma on 23 January. I pay tribute to Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Clyde Hudson and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr. These heroes came far from their homes to assist our State in our darkest hour and made the ultimate sacrifice protecting our communities. Their passing is deeply felt around the nation and we grieve for the families and the loved ones of these courageous men. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4248

Our whole nation is grieving for these firefighters and for all persons whose lives were lost across fire-affected communities. The bushfires' catastrophic path of destruction has left many with an immense amount of suffering and distress. Our sympathy and support extend to the large number of people across our State who suffered injuries. However, the gravity and damage of these bushfires would have been immeasurably worse if it were not for the brave men and women in New South Wales who worked tirelessly fighting these fierce fires and protecting our communities. Thousands of lives, possibly more, and homes were saved due to those efforts. There were members of our communities who, despite their own homes burning down, came to the service of others. This Parliament says to you: Your heroic efforts will never be forgotten, not only by those you so gallantly served in your own communities but across this nation. We are forever in your debt. We would like to give a special thanks to all those engaged in the various services that were at the front line in the effort to combat this disaster. To our extraordinary first responders and emergency service workers, we are profoundly grateful to each and every one of you. The specialised skills and knowledge of the people in Fire and Rescue NSW have been critical. We thank them and, of course, the Commissioner of Fire and Rescue, Paul Baxter, who leads that amazing team of brave men and women. We thank every single RFS member and volunteer and commend the NSW Rural Fire Service Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons for his leadership. We are appreciative beyond words for our courageous RFS volunteers who put their own lives on hold to defend the families, homes and land of others. To NSW Ambulance and the NSW Police Force, we give thanks for keeping countless people safe across the State. We are immensely grateful for the remarkable individuals from the State Emergency Service, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the Forestry Corporation and organisations such as Lifeline. Their instrumental service to our State has made all the difference. We also thank local councils and their workers, charities, surf clubs and local communities for coming together to help support those fighting the fires. I acknowledge the work of our unions, particularly the Fire Brigade Employees Union and the Public Service Association, for the work they have done in supporting firefighters in this State. Words cannot express how grateful we are for all those who fought fires and the brave work they have been doing. On behalf of this side of the House, I thank you. You are heroes. We also recognise the efforts of the Australian Defence Force's invaluable contribution and its continued efforts as we move into recovery. We also thank the families and loved ones of these incredible firefighters. Your effort and, in the case of those tragic examples mentioned earlier, your loss is acknowledged by us. As some members have observed, the magnitude of these bushfires is unparalleled. Current and former firefighters and their leaders have spoken of how the degree of unpredictability, of sheer risk that was posed by the fires, was without equal. The motion states that 2,400 homes have burnt down. There may well be more than that. Throughout our State 5.5 million hectares have been scorched, nearly 7 per cent of the State's landmass. The relevant government agency estimates that some 2.7 million hectares of national parks have been affected, which is about 37 per cent of the State's national parks. It has been estimated that over half of the New South Wales parts of the Gondwana Rainforests of Australia have been impacted by the bushfires. The Nightcap Ranges on the North Coast have burned for the first time, I think. The impact on our wildlife has been nothing short of catastrophic. It is conservatively estimated that about one billion animals have been killed across the nation by these fires. The total economic cost to our State will not be clear for some time but what we do know now is that people are really hurting. Crops, horticulture, livestock, tourism and infrastructure and our small businesses have been laid waste. Regardless of our politics, we need to come together as the elected representatives of the people of New South Wales and ensure that the communities, the families and the individuals experiencing incomprehensible loss get the support that they need. I have been deeply moved by the accounts and experiences of members from across the political landscape in the debate in the other place and in the media. The passion and distress experienced by the member for Bega for his community was clearly deeply felt and genuine. I acknowledge my friend and colleague Dr Hugh McDermott, who is a volunteer in the Horsley Park brigade of the Rural Fire Service and whose courageous service is deeply respected by all members. I also acknowledge my friend and colleague and my local member of Parliament Trish Doyle, who is the member for Blue Mountains. Listening to Trish detail her experience as a mother of a brave son who serves our State as a member of Fire and Rescue NSW was heart wrenching. No parent should have to endure the experience that she did. I acknowledge the job she does of supporting our community as the shadow Minister for Emergency Services and by supporting her community as the member for Blue Mountains. Our community of the Blue Mountains, where I live, has experienced devastation before in a number of bushfires, notably in 2013 and on this occasion approximately 80 per cent of the Blue Mountains World Heritage area, which is an unprecedented destruction of that World Heritage listed area. However, we are fortunate that on this occasion only 18 homes were lost in the Blue Mountains. However, 78 other homes suffered significant damage. While this is nothing compared to earlier fire events, including 2013, the stress and worry for our Blue Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4249

Mountains communities across an extended period of time—that the fires ringing the mountains would join up and close in—has caused deep and ongoing psychosocial stress. It has also resulted in a significant decline in visitors and tourists as well as resultant impacts on our small businesses. Local business are reporting a significant downturn—up to 77 per cent in some cases—across the season. I know one significant local business that estimates it has lost half of all its income for the whole year in this relatively short period. In addition, a number of our other key larger businesses, which are significant employers of casual but ongoing workers, have not been in a position to call in those workers for their usual shifts. This is financially damaging households, who have less money to invest in other local businesses through our communities—a vicious cycle. I acknowledge the role of the local Blue Mountains City Council and Mayor Mark Greenhill, OAM. In 2013 he had been the mayor for only five weeks when he had to play his role in steering the council through the bushfires and then through the lengthy recovery period. In this setting he has remained a steadfast advocate and strong support for his community. While the Blue Mountains are hurting, we know there are many more areas across our State that have been substantially more impacted and that communities such as the South Coast are struggling to deal with the terrible events that have transpired. The devastation of the South Coast will never be forgotten. The images of terrified residents have had a significant impact on our nation and have travelled across the globe. Numerous people on the South Coast are enduring anguish as they continue to grieve for their loved ones. Some people lost everything. People are drained, exhausted and anxious about their futures. The mental health impact of these fires is substantial. We must ensure that we support communities and provide people with adequate access to the mental health assistance they need. Fire-affected communities and many firefighters and first responders are also experiencing considerable trauma. We must prioritise their mental health needs. While celebrating our volunteers on the South Coast and everywhere across the State, I note that so many have made contributions that have taken them to the end of their energies and in many cases have involved personal financial sacrifices, which have impacted them and their families. In the recovery we must reflect upon how much we can reasonably expect of volunteers and whether the level of reliance we have placed on them is fair. The colossal recovery and rebuilding efforts that now are beginning to take shape will be challenging for communities across our State. We thank every individual who is contributing to that recovery effort. At the request of the Snowy Valley Council, recently our shadow Cabinet visited fire-affected areas at Tumut, Tumbarumba, Adelong, Batlow, Talbingo and other parts that included the State electorate of Wagga Wagga, which is ably represented by Dr Joe McGirr, who graciously welcomed us into his communities. It was a privilege as well as instructive to hear firsthand from people in fire-affected communities. In that region alone it is estimated that the fire impacts on the softwood plantation industry will result in a financial loss of approximately $800 million a year from local economies for the next 2½ decades. When that direct loss is multiplied throughout those economies, the total loss will amount to billions of dollars, which is nothing short of utterly catastrophic for those economies and communities. The North Coast also has been doing it tough through the bushfires and then the floods. Flooding recently began impacting areas that were endeavouring to recover from the bushfires. Last week during my visit to Nymboida on the North Coast I witnessed firsthand the efforts just one community is making to rebuild in the wake of both bushfires and floods. North Coast bushfire coordinators are all volunteers and they are not being directly supported by any level of government. While the recovery efforts are nothing short of remarkable, people are truly hurting. It is clear to me that there are many ways in which local communities can be better supported by governments after disasters. In the North Coast area, the Clarence Valley local government area lost 130 homes and 200 outbuildings because of the bushfires and many lost all their incomes. They need us to do better. These communities are determined to recover. We need to make certain that all the right assistance is coming their way as and when it is needed. As we heard earlier, the people of the South Coast have been through hell. It is vital that we, as members of Parliament, ensure that the rebuilding effort is done right. Like Tumut and surrounds, the South Coast economy has been hit hard and hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions of dollars, have been lost from the region's businesses. As my colleague in the other place Ryan Park highlighted, residents of the South Coast should be provided with the opportunity to be part of rebuilding their communities. The member for Keira is right in urging that the right procurement choices are made by the State Government so that South Coast businesses, tradespersons and suppliers are provided with those opportunities. This approach should be taken wherever bushfire recovery efforts are being made by Stage agencies. As members of this House, we should unite to ensure that traumatised communities receive the help they need and deserve. 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As the Leader of the Opposition in the other place, Jodi McKay, stated, "After these fires, nothing can be the same." It has been said that this fire season has been unprecedented. If that is the case, then the response to those bushfires equally should be unprecedented. We as a parliament should come together to address the consequences and causes posed by a changing climate. We need to act urgently and take meaningful action in a way that builds and enlarges the economic and social opportunities for our State and all its people. I know many members opposite and across the Chamber agree with that. The people of our State and future generations are depending upon us and what we choose to do now. As I am sure many people in this room have witnessed, after visiting fire-affected communities, the prevailing sentiment is that communities across New South Wales may be severely damaged but they are far from broken. Selfless acts of generosity have been abundant. Despite the immense suffering that communities have endured and will continue to endure for some time, people have been quick to come together to provide help and comfort and to look out for one another. It shows us the enduring strength and resilience of the people of New South Wales. Their example should inspire us to be resolute in dealing directly and swiftly with all aspects of the bushfires and their consequences. The Hon. MARK BANASIAK (17:58:37): First and foremost, I give my heartfelt condolences to my fellow Australians. All of us have been impacted in some way by these bushfires. To those who have lost loved ones, we are all here with you. What I do find unprecedented is the tragedy that these fires have left behind. How do we comfort with words those who have lost people they love? Anyone who has lost someone close to them will tell you that there is nothing that you can say that will cut through the fog of grief. Words and offers of thoughts and prayers wash over you like a wave. Nothing actually really sinks in. How do we return entire lives' worth of material possessions? How do we return those memories? How do we express our utmost gratitude to the emergency service agencies and volunteers who have seen things in this life that the rest of us could not comprehend, nor would want to? How do we do these things? How do we give back with words after what has just occurred? We cannot and that is a hard truth. It is in the actions that come afterwards, that come now, that we can attempt to repair the damage that has been done. It is in the actions, not in the obligatory condolences, that we begin to restore what was. As parliamentarians we need to take that seriously. I urge everyone in this House and in the other place, as we sit and listen to each other's words of condolence, to reflect on what actions, individually and collectively, we as a group can take to ensure such devastation does not occur again. When the fires hit and their magnitude became known across the State, it was too late. We could not do a thing except rely on our firies and volunteers to put an end to it. That burden should never have been left solely on them. It is with this in mind that we need to make a path forward in bushfire management, in recovery efforts and in prevention, and not just respond when it is too late. Now is the time to make sure that this never happens again because if it does it is an indictment on us as politicians. There have been many dozens of inquiries over many decades that have all said the same thing, all offered words around hazard reduction and proper and total land management. It is these areas and these actions that I particularly ask all of us to reflect upon. The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Education and Early Childhood Learning) (18:01:16): I add my remarks to the condolence motion before the House today, indicating—as others have done so far and no doubt will throughout the rest of the contributions this evening and potentially tomorrow—that we have had a devastating and lengthy bushfire season made even more terrible by the loss of 25 men and women who died defending their homes and towns from the bushfires. On Sunday I attended the State memorial service—many people from both Houses were in attendance that day—which was held to honour those who lost their lives and the communities that have been impacted by this incredibly devastating series of events. It is fair to say that that service was incredibly moving, heartfelt and respectful to the families of those who had lost loved ones. Many of them were in attendance. As I sat in the audience and watched them walk up to the front, light candles and present flowers on behalf of the people they lost I was in awe of their strength and their ability to do that. I also hope they knew that the thoughts and love of the people of New South Wales were with them as part of that process. In particular the service honoured the lives of Geoffrey Keaton and Andrew O'Dwyer of the RFS, who died near Buxton in south-western Sydney in December, and Samuel McPaul, who died on the New South Wales- Victorian border near Albury. Sunday's service also paid tribute to the three American crew members who lost their lives in January: Captain Ian McBeth from Montana, First Officer Paul Clyde Hudson from Arizona and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr from Florida. These men volunteered to travel over and help our country. They came to the other side of the world to give their time, their efforts and, tragically, their lives to defend us against the bushfires. We thank all of these men and we remember their sacrifice. Many have talked about heroes and I think in this instance "heroes" is a truly applicable word because of the sacrifice that they made for us. Our condolences go to all of their families and their loved ones. As I said, I cannot even begin to imagine the trauma and pain that Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4251

they are all going through. I hope that they feel comforted in knowing that, as I said, the thoughts and love of the people of New South Wales are with them. Eighteen other people died during the bushfires across regional New South Wales in terrible circumstances. Horrific stories are coming back from those communities. It is appropriate that in this motion the House recognises them and the terrible loss to their family and friends. It is something we all feel profoundly. Our deepest sympathy goes to those who have been affected. Again as the House has acknowledged, the scale of the bushfire season has been unprecedented—a word that has again been used often in this debate. The number of lives lost, the number of homes destroyed, the buildings impacted and the sheer volume of hectares that have been burnt out are unlike anything we have seen before. I pay respect to and honour those volunteers who helped fight during the bushfire season—from local communities, from across Australia and from other jurisdictions including the United States, Canada and New Zealand. I also acknowledge the incredible efforts of the paid staff—the emergency services who were part of the bushfire fighting efforts but in particular, of course, the Rural Fire Service, Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons and everybody who gave their all to ensure that we had the best possible people on the front line to fight these horrific fires. I also acknowledge the contribution of the active RFS volunteers within the education community. There were many people who spent their school holidays defending their schools, homes and communities— people like Bill Field, who is one of our directors of educational leadership, from Lake Illawarra North, and Peter Wright-Smith from North Nowra Public School. They are among some of the active RFS volunteers in the education community. As I said earlier today in question time, many dedicated staff from the Department of Education and School Infrastructure worked tirelessly to support bushfire prevention and recovery efforts; they worked alongside the emergency services and the RFS. I do not want to name names because I will leave somebody out, but what I can say is that there was constant communication and contact between Department of Education staff and the emergency services and the RFS so that we could work together over this period. It was something I have discussed with Shane Fitzsimmons. I certainly gave my support on behalf of the Department of Education and that was reciprocated in the way people worked together and came together. We know that schools are often the centre of community and that there were opportunities to make sure that we could have as low an impact as possible on our school communities—again that is something that I think is important to note. More than 250 schools were affected by the bushfires. Over 180 schools in the southern region, again as I said earlier today in question time, were either directly impacted or were in close proximity to fire-affected areas. We had schools that sustained damage to outbuildings and grounds, and schools that required maintenance, repair work and cleaning. Sadly there were also three New South Wales public schools that we lost during the bushfire period, including Cabramurra Public School, which is a small school in the Snowy region. Fortunately, if there is any opportunity to find something positive out of this event it is that that school has been in recess so there has not been students there for a period of time. If there is school infrastructure that has to be damaged, it can be at a school where there are no children currently attending—that at least was something. Wytaliba Public School and Bobin Public School, where we had students, were both lost or largely destroyed before Christmas. Thankfully all students in our public schools were able to return to school at the start of the 2020 school year, as per normal. That required a lot of effort from people in School Infrastructure and a lot of effort from our principals and staff on the ground. I acknowledge that because it is quite a massive task with this amount of infrastructure. As I said earlier today, it is important to get kids back to school and normality. We made this a priority over the summer break. A lot of our teachers and particularly our principals and school department staff have not had breaks. They have been working hard to bring things back to normal for the kids. Again I think it is important that that is acknowledged as part of this motion. I have had the opportunity to see firsthand the impact of the bushfires on schools. I spent some time in Wytaliba. I visited the children from that school when they were at Red Range Public School. When they lost their school in November last year they were very kindly taken in by a neighbouring school at a village not far down the road. I spent a bit of time with the kids then, and then in their new school early in the new year when we were able to get that back up and running for them. In one of the ironies of Mother Nature unfortunately there have been recent closures to that school because of flooding. That community was completely wiped out by a bushfire before Christmas and is slowly starting to rebuild. We had to rebuild the new school. Literally days later there were issues with rain and flooding. We needed to replace some carpet. My understanding is that the bridge in that town that was wiped out by fire is now affected by flood, so the community is again effectively cut in half. From an education perspective we are working with them to try to sort out some of the issues, but it is just one of those things where you think, "How much can a community go through?" They have literally been from fire to flood in this summer period. The resilience of those communities, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4252

but particularly the principal and the staff of that school—they have just been incredible in providing that support to the school community and the children in their care—has been phenomenal. I will say the same thing about those at Bobin, a school that was devastated by bushfires before the end of last year. We moved those kids into Wingham so that they could continue their education, but then we had them back at Bobin for day one, term one. After speaking to the staff, I know how grateful they were that we were able to act so quickly to get those schools back up and running. It is important to do this because it is the right thing to do. We have done it because we know that sense of normality and community that you get. I made it very clear to both communities from day one that we would rebuild because I think it was important that they knew that the Government would support those schools to remain. We know that the schools are integral to those local communities. The jobs that those staff have done throughout this period has just been phenomenal. I acknowledge all of the local school assets and the school directorate staff in both of those communities who worked all through summer to make this happen. I also acknowledge the tradesmen. In both schools we were able to use a lot of local tradies to do the work. I was told that the main builder at the Wytaliba school only had Christmas Day off. He worked through to make sure that the school was rebuilt. These little stories often do not get told. As I said, sometimes in the most horrific circumstances we find the best in people. From a schools' perspective, particularly a school infrastructure perspective, I have certainly seen that as Minister and I acknowledge that. Again we will continue to provide support to these school communities throughout the coming weeks and months. I spent some time on the South Coast with the member for Bega visiting schools there, particularly in Cobargo, Mogo and Broulee. We talked to a range of principals from Batemans Bay, Ulladulla, Vincentia and in between. This is not business as usual. People are hurting and they will continue to hurt. We need to make sure that we provide support for them in whatever way that transpires. I know that the secretary of the department has also spent time with these schools. Both he and I are speaking regularly about what we need to do. We will be led by them in terms of recovery, whether it is with further mental health support or conversations with organisations like the NSW Primary Principals' Association and the New South Wales Secondary Principals' Association for partner schools. We do not yet know what some of these impacts will be or for how long they will be felt. Some principals have already indicated that they have concerns about things like school excursions later in the year and whether families will be in a financial position to let their kids take part. There are principals of schools in other parts of the State that are saying, "We want to help and partner with you", "We will be your sponsor school," or, "We will keep an eye out and have that sister school relationship." Again, this is about bringing out the best in humanity in the most horrific circumstances. The early childhood sector is one area that we need to make sure we provide support for. A lot of kids and families have been through significant trauma, including very young children. I spoke to staff from some affected preschools from Cobargo, Mogo, little Yuin and Bermagui. They will need support as well. We have already rolled out our first round of a package to help them with bushfire recovery, but these will be ongoing conversations, because we know that a lot is at stake and a lot of communities will need ongoing Government support. The fact that we have this condolence motion recognises the horrific events that have occurred but also, just as importantly, it turns our mind to the recovery to make sure that these communities know they are supported by the Parliament and that there is bipartisan support to help them move forward after what has been a truly horrific period. I support the motion and commend it to the House. [Business interrupted.] Visitors VISITORS The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane): I welcome to the President's gallery Mr Tony Mubarak, guest of Ms Sophie Cotsis, MP. I hope you enjoy visiting the New South Wales Parliament. Motions BUSHFIRES [Business resumed.] The Hon. PENNY SHARPE (18:13:03): I contribute to the condolence motion on the New South Wales summer bushfires and the terrible loss of life that we have had. We have to be very honest about what has happened in 2019-20. I believe New South Wales has been changed forever. We have changed in ways that we are yet to really understand, but we have changed nonetheless. The idea of an innocent, lazy summer was lost as tens of Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4253

thousands of people were evacuated and taken out of harm's way. We also know that too many people charged right into harm's way, with a tragic loss of life. We have to truly understand what has just happened so that we can address it in the future. We have lost 25 lives, including three RFS volunteers: Sam McPaul, Geoffrey Keaton and Andrew O'Dwyer. We lost men who came from across the world to help us in our time of need. They thought they would come and help Australians and then they would go home to their families. We say thank you and send our deepest condolences to the families of Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Hudson and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr. They will not be going home to their families because they came to help us. We also acknowledge community members that have been lost. These people were parts of families and communities: Bob Lindsey, Gwenda Hyde, Vivian Chaplain, George Nole, Julie Fletcher, Barry Parsons, Chris Savva, Robert Salway, Patrick Salway, Russell Bratby, Laurie Andrew, John Smith, Mick Campbell, David Harrison, Ross Rixon, Mick Clarke, John Butler and Colin Burns. These people were lost to our communities in what was a horror summer. We also acknowledge the untold thousands of lives that were saved through the good work of organisations like the RFS. All of us spent a terrible time watching the fires nearby and making decisions about what we needed to do. Some 2,439 people have lost their homes. This is unprecedented. People genuinely do not know what they will do next. On top of that we have lost another 11,000 buildings. Small businesses were destroyed and people just do not know how they will start again. We have also suffered an environmental catastrophe with 5.4 million hectares burnt and one billion animals lost. I am on the koala inquiry committee and, as members of that know, we heard recently that potentially 80 per cent of koalas in New South Wales are gone and may not come back. There are also farmers who have lost all of their livestock. I acknowledge the ordinary people who lost their pets and had to make some very difficult decisions. They are very traumatised by that and the impact will be ongoing. Through all of this, one thing we have to do is tell stories so that we learn how to deal with it in the future. I was fortunate to speak with many people in the past couple of months about their stories of the fire. I will not identify them here, but I will tell some of their stories so that we can remember what it was like for people. I spoke to a couple who live on the South Coast with their five children. They were in Sydney while the kids were at home. On New Year's Eve they were told that they had to get out. The parents rang the kids, who were still in the house, at nine o'clock in the morning and demanded that they leave. It was lucky that they did, because at 11.00 a.m. their entire house burnt down. One woman was separated from her husband for nine days while he defended their house on his own in a very isolated area in the bush. They could not get in contact with each other. There was no telecommunication. They saved their house, but their trauma is deep and I think they are really only beginning to understand that. They and their neighbours worked closely together to keep a generator going to continue their work. They were cut off from the world and we are yet to see what will happen. I reflect on a couple who have lived down on the South Coast for a long time. The husband, a potter and ceramicist, lost his life's work. They lost their only form of income in these fires. One family who were on holidays had to literally run to the beach with their 12-month-old child and stand in the water as the embers fell down on them. I remember the people with disability who were moved sometimes very well by their organisations, which had good plans in place and did an extremely good job, but also the many people with disability who turned up to evacuation centres without adequate toileting facilities and who, in some cases, could not even get into the evacuation centres. There are wildlife carers who have devoted their lives to this. A man called James Fitzgerald was a witness at the koala inquiry the other day. He has devoted his life to buying up land and providing a sanctuary for koalas and other wildlife near Cooma. James lost every building on the site, his life's work, as well as the koalas and other animals that he cared for. He dedicated his evidence to our committee to the three Americans who lost their lives, because they were bombing over his property when they went down. We also need to remember that even when buildings can be rebuilt, some things have been lost that cannot be replaced. I know a woman on the South Coast whose family survived the Holocaust and who has memorabilia that survived the Holocaust that did not survive the fires. Those things cannot be replaced. That devastation is still being felt. Through telling these stories—and I know that everyone has them, and I acknowledge the people in this Chamber and the other place who suffered and the things they lost this summer —we learn so much about ourselves and what needs to be done. It is going to take a long time for things to get better. As part of my contribution, I say thank you to so many people. I thank the Rural Fire Service, Fire and Rescue, the National Parks and Wildlife Service staff, Forestry Corporation staff, our wildlife rescuers, the other first responders, our ambos and the police. I place on record my thanks to the community members who did not necessarily see any of those people, but who organised themselves, reached out to their neighbours and put processes in place to feed and look after people, check on neighbours and move people if they had to. They continue to contribute in the recovery effort in Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4254

ways that we still need to understand. I acknowledge the work of the media. Many media representatives put themselves in harm's way and found themselves helping people protect their properties as they were reporting on the fires. The stories they have told and the pictures they have taken will help inform our response into the future. I thank the community leaders and local government people. During this period there has been a lot of discussion about who turned up and who did not. In particular I acknowledge Mayor Mark Greenhill of the Blue Mountains City Council and Mayor Amanda Findley of the Shoalhaven City Council in my duty electorate of the South Coast. They showed up every day and played a really important role in their communities, telling people what was going on and sharing information. I thank local government more generally. Local councils in both the city and country are working together to help communities through the recovery. There has been a great initiative of city mayors coming together to help local government deal with the issue. We need to help organise that. I thank the people who worked the recovery centres, many of whom were volunteers. I thank our public servants, who have done an extraordinary job in very difficult circumstances. I recognise the local neighbourhood centres, which often do not get a lot of recognition for the work they do, but are crucial when it comes to emergency response, as well as the rebuild into the future. The actions we need to take from here are fairly obvious. We need to review and we need to learn. We need a proper review with public input. In the to and fro of politics there is no space for us to be too precious about this. What has happened is unprecedented, but there will be more of these events in the future. We need to deal with these matters openly and transparently and allow people to give as much input as possible. Hiding behind secrecy, not allowing people to tell their stories and not learning from the incredible lessons that communities have to teach is a wasted opportunity. I implore the Government to be open about this. There is no blame; we need to get to the bottom of the issue and do better in the future. We need to learn from the good as well as the bad. There are so many great stories about community resilience and community organisation. If we do not go out to those people we will only hear about the bad stuff. It would be a waste of an opportunity to learn about community building and community strengthening and understand what our communities are capable of. We need to stop, listen and take the time to do that. We need to be patient, we need to be sensitive and we need to be kind. Recovery is going to take a very long time. As I said, the buildings can be rebuilt, but the losses will be remembered. Communities will take time and need sustained support to deal with the trauma. I heard what the Government said today in question time about all the things we are doing, but we need to be honest about how much of it is new money and how much of it is putting people into crisis. Where are we going to be in 12 months and 18 months when those communities are going to need more support? Will the people who are currently there be gone? We need to be honest about that and the Government needs to be truthful about that. As many members have said, as a result of what happened this summer there has been a real impact on children, whether they live in Sydney, where they could barely breathe for three weeks because of the smoke; were evacuated in boats; were evacuated in cars; had to see their families fight fires and come in and out; or helped to defend their own homes—many young people were part of that. There has been a fundamental impact on the young people across the State, from the little ones through to the quite big ones, some of whom we met the other day when we met with school leaders in Tumut. We need to understand what is happening with our kids and we need to provide them with the support they need into the future. When we talk about young people we need to talk about climate change. This is a condolence motion—and I have many things to say about climate change— but we cannot pretend that what has happened in the past 12 months in New South Wales is normal or an aberration and blip in history that is not going to happen again. We need to talk about climate change and what we can do to avoid further damage to our fragile planet. It is not theoretical; it is an issue that we can no longer put off doing something about. It was not normal, but a failure to act properly could mean that it becomes normal. Our young people understand that profoundly. Part of dealing with their trauma is recognising that those of us who have responsibility for what we hand on to future generations need to hear those young people and take action in every way we can and do everything in our power to turn this around. I again send my deepest condolences to those who have lost so much. I thank those who fought so hard to protect our lives, properties, parks, forests and communities. I say to those who are worried about what we are going to do after all of this is done: Please know that I am one with many of my colleagues who are committed to turning climate change around and taking the necessary actions to make a difference in the future. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK (18:26:45): There is never an easy way to deliver condolences in the face of such a tragedy. The scale of these fires has left so many devastated. The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party members send our deepest sympathies and heartfelt condolences to everyone impacted. We are sorry they had to endure such devastation during a time usually reserved for love, family, relaxation and unwinding. I send a message to all of New South Wales and all the towns and individuals who have suffered that despite what they went through, they made me damn proud to be an Australian. There is no underestimating our bush communities; Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4255

they really can persevere through the worst of it. The sense of community that I witnessed across our regions was truly admirable. Now it is our time to step up and begin the restoration of these communities. We can no longer stick our heads in the sand when it comes to land management. It is time to draw on the past, recognise what went wrong and start taking active steps to ensure this never happens again. There is no denying that a healthy environment is crucial to a healthy community. As a parliament we need a greater understanding of what a healthy environment is. Locking up and leaving our bush does not work. It is one of this country's greatest threats to safety. It threatens our lives, our homes, our farms, our towns and our wildlife. All have been jeopardised because of this Government's misplaced sense of "environment". It is time to rectify that, or the cost will be much greater in years to come. The ASSISTANT PRESIDENT (The Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane): I will now leave the chair. The House will resume at 8.00 p.m. Rulings OFFENSIVE WORDS IN MOTIONS The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan) (20:01:20): During notices of motion today the Hon. Ben Franklin took a point of order about the word "lying" in a notice of motion given by the Hon. Mark Buttigieg to the effect that it was out of order. There have been numerous rulings that referring to a member of the House as a "liar" or as "lying" is offensive and out of order. Indeed, the House saw that interplay today. It is a somewhat different matter when a word such as "liar" is used as an allegation against a member in a substantive motion. So long as the language used in a motion is not in itself offensive, members should be free to use words of their choosing and to take responsibility for them. The President is reluctant to interfere with the privilege of members to give notices of motions, as it is a matter for the House to agree to the motion, amend it or, where offensive, reject it. However, I remind members that the dignity and integrity of the House relies upon the good judgement and prudence of members when speaking in this Chamber and when proposing motions for discussion. On this occasion there have been communications with the member and he has agreed to alter the language used in the motion. I thank the member for his cooperation. Motions BUSHFIRES Debate resumed from an earlier hour. The Hon. DAMIEN TUDEHOPE (Minister for Finance and Small Business) (20:03:09): I contribute to the debate on this motion of condolence. It is difficult to describe in words the incomparable loss that this bushfire season has brought in New South Wales. Since July over 2,400 houses have been confirmed destroyed and more than 5.5 million hectares across New South Wales have been burnt. These numbers are expected to rise as assessments continue. While all these losses have been devastating for our regional communities, it is the human toll over which we grieve the most: the families now left without a home, the thousands kept awake at night, anxious about the next day; and, most tragically, the lives lost. Last Sunday we commemorated the lives of 25 men and women of New South Wales who lost their lives in the bushfires. On behalf of the State of New South Wales and in unison with every member in this place, I extend my deepest condolences to their families, friends and loved ones. It is a curious thing that despite all our loss, like gold that is tested and refined by fire so too have the people of New South Wales emerged ever the stronger and the complexion of our communities ever the brighter. I will mention just a few of the stories I have heard. Earlier this year I travelled to Lithgow where I met Trev Evans from Secret Creek Wildlife Sanctuary. He is a giant of a man both in a literal sense as well as in terms of his heart for conservation. He shared with us how the bushfires had wrought so much devastation for him and his family and yet his words, accompanied with a hearty chuckle, reflect a deep-seated confidence. "We've gone back to bare bones," he said, "But I want to take it up a step. I am going to move forward and push harder. If the fire didn't get me, these things aren't going to stop me." From Lithgow we travelled to Bilpin and spoke with Tessa and Shane from Hillbilly Cider, both of whom are just wonderful people who care deeply for their community. While Shane was out fighting fires with his local rural bushfire service, Tessa was giving a hand feeding literally hundreds of volunteers from across the State. Later I had the opportunity of visiting communities in the Bega electorate with the incredible local member and good friend Andrew Constance. In his community the devastation, the deep sense of loss and the anxieties for the future are unparalleled. Andrew is a local member with a heart of gold and when it comes to the impact that the Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4256

bushfires have had on his community he just tells it as it is. I am grateful for his honesty and I know that his constituents hold him in high regard for the superhuman work he does for his electorate. While we focus on our tragic loss today, there is much that has been saved. While we mourn the 25 victims of the bushfires, there are countless more who have been rescued. While thousands of homes have been lost, thousands more have been spared. And while there are many left without much, there are so many more Australians willing to give these communities the shirts off their backs. In saying this, I am reminded of Kiah resident Errol McGovern who, in fighting fires on his daughter's property, tragically lost over 100 years of his own family history. The devastation was gut wrenching but the outpouring in support for the McGovern family is something that makes the heart soar, with almost $20,000 raised on a GoFundMe website by 166 incredible donors. The generosity and outpouring of support for our bushfire-impacted communities have been truly incredible and have provided strength beyond the material. Of course, the Premier could not have expressed any better the outstanding work of the leadership of the NSW Rural Fire Service Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons when she said earlier this month, "Words cannot describe the gratitude that all of New South Wales feels towards him." We acknowledge and thank the more than 70,000 RFS volunteers who, in the face of overwhelming disaster and difficulty, went unflinchingly to protect life and property day after day, week after week, and month after month—more than 140 days of continuous major operations across New South Wales. I would like to thank all of our State's volunteers whose stories will likely go untold: the young woman at Lifeline sharing in the sorrows of a man who has lost his home; the local Rotary Club volunteer fundraising for an RFS brigade which they have never heard of; or the volunteer worker doing the rounds at the Red Cross relief centre. Where would New South Wales be without the generosity and self-sacrifice of our volunteers? In my inaugural speech in this place I said: … we ought to invest in our volunteers. We need to see the value in each person and the time that each person freely gives to volunteer organisations. We must never undervalue the work that is being done by our churches and charities. I find it difficult now to imagine a single person in New South Wales who would dismiss the important work that our volunteers do. Regional small businesses across New South Wales are doing it really tough—beginning with drought followed by bushfires and now in some areas even floods. It is absolutely critical that small businesses get back on their feet and get back to business and the New South Wales Government will back them every step of the way. Whether it is picking up the clean-up bill, paying their council rates or providing financial support in the form of recovery grants, concessional loans, fee and tax relief or short-term income assistance for employees, the New South Wales Government is committed to doing all that it can to help local business communities rebuild and recover. It is ensuring that local businesses receive first preference to provide the services required to rebuild their own communities, with all government agencies required to source work from local businesses as part of the bushfire recovery process. This means employing locals, churning money into those areas and keeping families in town. The Government has established a new business portal and concierge service to help small businesses gain access to these opportunities. It has been a great success, with over 1,000 businesses now registered to participate in the clean-up. But recovery goes beyond bricks and mortar and while the economic losses have been devastating it is the human toll that we grieve the most—the men and women left without work, the thousands kept awake at night, anxious about the next day and the small business owners who do not know where to turn. These are serious and deeply concerning issues and I encourage everyone who has been affected to seek support for mental health and wellbeing. I also provide assurances that having seen firsthand how much business owners appreciate advice from our Business Connect advisers, there is nothing quite like having someone by your side to help you work out the next steps and develop a recovery plan to help these businesses get back on their feet. All of these support measures are absolutely invaluable. That is precisely why we have hosted and will continue to host our bushfire regional roadshows to share information with affected small businesses about the support that is available. The road to recovery for these businesses may be long and arduous but the New South Wales Government will stand by them every step of the way. I commend our very capable Minister for Police and Emergency Services, who has been working alongside RFS Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons. Both have laboured tirelessly for the people of New South Wales and they have exemplified expertise and compassion and what it means to inspire others to action. I also commend the Deputy Premier, who has always championed the regions and all the more so throughout this crisis. He now leads the way in the disaster recovery process. While the rebuilding process will not be easy, I know it is in capable hands. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4257

And, of course, we thank the Premier. She has been the very example of determination and tenacity, of hope and security to the millions across New South Wales. She has felt each wound and every mar upon the people of New South Wales as if they were her own. It has been an exhausting time for her. Nevertheless she has led courageously and I know she will continue to lead with strength as New South Wales rebuilds. Indeed the people of our State will be depending on those of us in this place to set aside our differences and get the job done. All of us here, irrespective of political stripes and colours, stand in solidarity with those who have suffered and sacrificed as a result of these bushfires. We will grieve with them but we will also go forward with them—and we must do it together. In closing, I would like to read a poem which was read at the State memorial last week. I think this poem needs to go on the record in this place because it exemplifies what was sacrificed by those who lost their lives in bushfire. The poem is entitled The Dash and it goes like this: I read of a man who stood to speak at the funeral of a friend. He referred to the dates on the tombstone from the beginning ... to the end. He noted that first came the date of birth and spoke of the following date with tears, but he said what mattered most of all was the dash between those years. For that dash represents all the time they spent alive on earth and now only those who loved them know what that little line is worth. For it matters not, how much we own, the cars ... the house ... the cash. What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash. So think about this long and hard; are there things you'd like to change? For you never know how much time is left that still can be rearranged. To be less quick to anger and show appreciation more and love the people in our lives like we've never loved before. If we treat each other with respect and more often wear a smile remembering that this special dash might only last a little while. So when your eulogy is being read, with your life's actions to rehash, would you be proud of the things they say about how you lived your dash? I commend the motion to the House. The Hon. PETER PRIMROSE (20:14:47): I begin by joining with all other members in offering my deepest respect for all the emergency services personnel, including the three United States air crew members, who gave their lives fighting these fires to protect the lives and livelihoods of others. I join with the whole community in offering my deepest condolences to their loved ones, friends and colleagues. They are honoured by us all and they will be missed. I also pay my deepest respects to those other citizens of New South Wales who also lost their lives and other citizens throughout Australia and I acknowledge the grief that their loved ones and their communities are feeling at these tragic losses. The injuries to so many others, both physical and psychological, are almost beyond comprehension. I join with other members in expressing our sincere thanks to all of the emergency services personnel who fought these fires. The paid, retained and voluntary members of Fire and Rescue NSW, the NSW Rural Fire Service, the State Emergency Service, Forestry NSW and the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Your herculean effort to deal with the rapidly changing conditions during the most dangerous of fire days will never be forgotten. You were a source of strength, solace, information and hope for those experiencing the fires in their communities. We acknowledge the sadness and the loss. But I also want to acknowledge the selflessness, the hope and the resilience of those in fire-affected communities who are now in the various stages of clean-up and rebuilding. The strength of volunteerism in these communities is genuinely remarkable. In making this contribution, I want to put on the Hansard record comments made by three of my friends, with their permission, who have been directly impacted by this fire season. They live, respectively, on the mid coast, the Sapphire Coast and in the Riverina. Councillor Claire Pontin from MidCoast Council had this to say: It's been a few months since the fires tore through the Mid Coast—people have had a chance to take stock and it's not looking good. We have whole communities that have been decimated—especially Bobin and Rainbow Flat. Everybody knows someone who has lost their house, or their sheds, or their livestock, or their business—or all of it. People who lost property, who fought the fires, who were first responders, who gave up days and weeks of their lives to volunteer support and whose businesses have suffered badly will be affected by this for a long time—some experiencing post traumatic shock and all affected by the anxiety and the uncertainty. Even the people who escaped immediate damage have been changed forever by living through it. At least the recent rains are bringing some regrowth, but in some areas the fires were so intense recovery will take a lot longer. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4258

It is going to take a long way for this community to recover. Council has also been facilitating BBQ get-togethers in the villages and towns most affected to help build emotional support. I was talking to the family of a 91 year old man who lived alone and who evacuated to a local hall as the fire approached. He was safe, but he lost his house. His family on the Central Coast lost him for a couple of days. He was so dazed he forgot to contact them. He has now found somewhere to live but he just wants to know how long before his site is cleared. Just having a date would help him. Businesses in some areas have suffered badly. Council's business roundtables have shown that tourism (a mainstay on the Mid Coast), has suffered badly—with Gloucester alone reporting a 93% drop in numbers over Christmas. Primary producers are reeling from the effects of drought and fire with smoke tainted grapes, low stock numbers, stock in poor condition, no silage crops and worst of all no spare cash to build up again. They are starting to recover but it is going to be slow. This flows onto the services and retail businesses that support the farmers and the tourist operators. The local economy is feeling the pain. It is really important that people in NSW who have not been directly affected by the drought and fires think of holidaying in regional areas that have been affected. Cheery faces and some local spending could help enormously. Leanne Atkinson, who went through the Tathra bushfires two years ago as well as this season's fires, mentioned those in her community who are filling key needs, people who comfort others who are suffering, who sacrifice personal gain or profit and who willingly give their time to help those who continue to feel overwhelmed by their situation. Leanne mentioned the Eastwood's Deli and Cooking School in Bermagui, working under the banner of the World Central Kitchen, which has temporarily stopped its cafe business to provide a community kitchen so that there are nutritious and warm meals for people affected by or fighting the fires. In their words it is, "Food with dignity, cooked by chefs, prepped with lots of love by our volunteers." As of 9 February over 30,000 meals had been served, 270 community members had given their time and food had been delivered to over 50 locations between Batemans Bay and Eden—this over the course of just 30 days. A number of local community committees have formed across the South Coast and the Sapphire Coast to ensure that no-one is left behind. People have helped their neighbours to clear land and have assisted with access to electricity, internet, water and housing. These community committees are filling gaps, especially where there are time delays between applying for and receiving grants or other support. Many organisations and people on the ground have provided material support along the South Coast and Sapphire Coast: Rubicon, a veterans' organisation, which provides support to disaster-affected communities; BlazeAid, which is helping to rebuild fences for families and also helping to lift spirits; organisations like Wildlife Rescue South Coast, which assists injured wildlife and provides food drops while vegetation grows back; intrepid kayakers have ensured cut-off towns and outlying areas receive supplies; Sapphire Community Projects and Sapphire Community Pantry have supplied food, toys, pens and a raft of other supplies to families and the local preschool; and many others have also filled gaps and met the needs of the community. Leanne specifically asked me to say: Experience [after the Tathra bushfires] shows us that the rebuild after the current fires will be long and hard. Whilst we rebuild, please don't forget us! I recently caught up with my good friend Councillor Vanessa Keenan from Wagga Wagga City Council. Her experience of being bunkered down with her family on their farm near Tumut sounded particularly harrowing. She said: My message is for people not to forget about these communities once the front pages disappear. The hurt and stress is ongoing and will take years for many to fully recover. The grass may look green at the moment but when you walk along it, plumes of ash rise up. When it rains, the trees and ground turn the darkest of black and the creeks and rivers flow with a black sludge, full of ash and debris, every day reminding us that the damage is still there. Resilience is a powerful thing. On New Year's Day I stood with my friend amongst the smouldering ruins of his family home. He had almost finished the renovations which included a modified bathroom that would allow his young 8 year old son to use it independently for the first time in his life. They now talk of the future, resolved to rebuild and start a new chapter for their family in the beautiful region we all call home. The collective resilience of the community is strong. The fires have brought everyone together and the support of the wider region is amazing. My own community of Wagga Wagga opened their arms and their doors to the evacuees of the Snowy Valleys region, creating a bond between the two communities that won't be forgotten soon. Come and see these amazing communities for yourself. Holiday in our region, experience the natural environment in our State Forests and National Parks that, despite the destruction, still take your breath away with their beauty. There's no better way to remind yourself about how truly lucky we are to live in such a wonderful little corner of the world here in NSW. As a member of the New South Wales Opposition, my job is to advocate for the people, to make sure that promises are kept and to make sure that the sacrifices of many are never forgotten. As a citizen of New South Wales I will maintain and deepen my friendships and connections with people and organisations in fire-affected communities, as will all members of this House. I will holiday and spend money there and I encourage others to do the same. We must all do whatever we can to support small businesses and local jobs in these communities. I cannot walk in the shoes of those directly affected by these fires but I hope that I can be one of those who can walk beside them. Ms CATE FAEHRMANN (20:25:43): I support this bushfire motion. The last time we were here, before Parliament rose at the end of the year, none of us would have imagined that the fire could be so horrific. These fires defied all predictions, coming earlier, fiercer, longer and more unpredictably than any other. These fires Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4259

killed 25 people, including three RFS volunteers: Geoffrey Keaton, Andrew O'Dwyer and Samuel McPaul. Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Hudson and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr of Coulson Aviation from the United States of America also lost their lives. My deepest sympathy goes to all the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives in these fires, including those who fought heroically to save the lives and homes of others. My deepest gratitude and respect go to the thousands of volunteers, paid firefighters and other workers, people who work for the Rural Fire Service, the SES, the NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service, Forestry Corporation of NSW, local council workers and the many countless volunteers who worked so tirelessly to offer care and support to the community during this terrible catastrophe. As many members have already stated, without their work many more people would have lost their lives. The tragic deaths during this fire season started with the small community of 100 people at Wytaliba, near Glen Innes. Last year two people died as a result of that terrible fire and others were hospitalised with serious injuries. George Nole was found dead in his car, trying to escape the fire. Vivian Chaplain fought to protect her home and animals she dearly loved. She was found alive but died several days later from terrible burns. The mayor of Glen Innes Severn Council, Carol Sparks, lost her home of 40 years in the blaze at Wytaliba. She became a champion for her small community and a voice of compassion and reason from the front line. She urged politicians to act on climate change, as did the Shoalhaven City Council Mayor, Councillor Amanda Findley, and many other local council workers and community leaders on the front line. Days after the fire, Mayor Carol Sparks wrote an opinion piece that was published in The Guardian. She said: While all this is a personal tragedy for my family and myself, it is but one story within an unfolding statewide and global disaster, about which our community deserves nothing less than the honest and unvarnished truth. There are already those who, following such statements, will aim to shoot the messenger. To those people I say this: take your best shot, for I have already been through hell and there is nothing you can say or do that can touch me now. But for the sake of the future, for the sake of our community and the rising generation who will inherit this scorched Earth, one can only hope there will be enough people remaining who retain the common decency to listen, to heed the cries of those in harm's way, who will now together take decisive and collective action to save our ecosystem and our civilisation from collapse. Carol Sparks lost her home of 40 years and some of her neighbours and dearest friends died. I believe her great- grandson is recovering in hospital from severe burns. It is important to put Ms Sparks' words on the record, as well as the words of other local RFS volunteers and residents fighting these fires. Former Blue Mountains RFS captain Douglas Wood from Bora Ridge, south-west of Lismore, spoke about the fires that bore down on his property and local community in early November. The 54-year-old managed to save his neighbour's property and his mum and dad's house next door, but as he did he watched his own home go up in flames. He told reporters: We just did our best. I just can't explain how bad it was. It was just so intense. It was unbelievable. I have seen plenty of fires, and this is the worst I have seen in my life. In another The Guardian opinion piece Badja Sparks said: I have been a member of the Wytaliba community near Glen Innes for 40 years. We lost two of our community members in last Friday's bushfires, and the father of my great-grandson is in Royal North Shore hospital being treated for severe burns while trying to save his house and his dead neighbour. Nearly 50% of our able adults are members of the Wytaliba RFS, a figure envied by many other brigades. Over those 40 years on our 1,400-ha property, we have had more than a dozen out-of-control bushfires that were successfully controlled, most of them in recent years. Over the past three years, in cooperation with NSW forestry, national parks and the RFS, we have had very extensive controlled burning in the state forest and national park on our perimeter. On 14 September, after an outbreak of fires across the northern tablelands, high winds caused embers to spot more than 10km on to the centre of Wytaliba. After an initial emergency the fire weather abated, but over the next week the fire spread across much of the property. In a large operation more than 20 RFS trucks, more than 100 firefighters, bulldozers and waterbombers were successfully deployed to help defend our homes. All were saved. Much of Wytaliba was blacked out. Carol – the mayor of Glen Innes with a 20-year RFS service medal – and I have a large cleared area around our double-brick house. The September fire burned to our perimeter. This was just two months ago. Everything that should be done was done, and lots more. The fire that came last Friday was of another order of magnitude altogether. A crown fire roaring in from the west on a hot afternoon with an 80km/h wind – it wasn't on the ground. It was a firestorm in the air – raining fire. There was no fuel on the ground; it was already burned. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4260

The fires destroyed 2,439 homes, burnt 5.5 million hectares, which is 37 per cent, of our national park estate, killed hundreds of millions of animals—potentially one billion—and impacted countless local businesses, causing some to close entirely. As all members have touched on, the scale of what we have lost for the wildlife and biodiversity of New South Wales is utterly incomprehensible. The National Parks and Wildlife Service initial analysis shows that about one quarter of all modelled koala habitat in eastern New South Wales has been impacted by the fires. As the Hon. Penny Sharpe mentioned earlier, the koala inquiry, which I chair and which other members of this place are part of, has heard devastating evidence from the experts that up to 80 per cent, 85 per cent or 90 per cent of local koala populations have been wiped out. The National Parks and Wildlife Service analysis also shows that 30 per cent of bushland where 32 threatened animal species have previously been sighted and 5 per cent of bushland where 114 threatened animal species have habitat have been impacted by the fires. The long-footed potoroo, a threatened species, is likely to be badly impacted. Today I read that 97 per cent of the habitat of the long-footed potoroo has been impacted. For all intents and purposes the long-footed potoroo may have become extinct in the fires. The brush-tailed rock-wallaby—which everyone loves—is likely to be badly affected as more than 80 per cent of its habitat has been impacted by fires. When a species is threatened we worry about a 5 per cent or 10 per cent loss; an 80 per cent or a 90 per cent loss is extremely dire. They are absolutely staring extinction in the face. I touch on the pain, suffering and sheer terror that hundreds of millions of our wildlife have experienced. It has deeply affected all members, Australians and people around the world. I genuinely believe that it has affected people from all sides of politics. It is not a Greens issue or an thing; it has deeply impacted every member in this place. It has also highlighted the fact that the ongoing existence of our native wildlife has probably been taken for granted. For example, learning that the platypus may become extinct—even though six months ago that was not even a consideration—has touched a lot of people in a very big way. I sincerely thank the many incredible wildlife carers and all the people from all walks of life who reached out when they realised that so many of our native wildlife were in pain and suffering and needed care. Workshops on building nesting boxes and making watering stations were booked out in a matter of minutes and many volunteered to go out to various firegrounds to drop food when it was safe to do so. That was incredibly heartening. Tonight many people in this place have spoken about the community spirit of people all working together, and I add my thanks to those comments. But I also put on the record how many people reached out to volunteer for our wildlife. It was a surprise to me how much of the world poured out their hearts to Australia because of the extent of these fire, the deaths, the horrifying images and our unique biodiversity and wildlife. And if it was a surprise to me I am sure it was a surprise to many other members. I note the many distressing things that people witnessed and saw along the South Coast. We saw Armageddon pictures of people being saved from burning buildings and others on the beach with face masks and everything else, trying to rescue children. Members of this place and the other place have spoken about those events. But I also note—because quite a few people were talking about this at the time—that residents of the South Coast spoke of their distress when they saw the impact that the fires, smoke and heat were having on bird life. The Age photographer Justin McManus and Mallacoota local Rachel Mounsey documented some of the birds that perished in the Gippsland fires. These events were witnessed in the South Coast as well. The birds' remains washed up on Tip Beach, just outside Mallacoota. Justin McManus wrote: Among the ash, hard to see at first, was the familiar bright plumage of some of our most iconic birds. The vivid blues, yellows, reds and greens of Rainbow Lorikeets, Crimson Rosellas, Yellow Tailed Black Cockatoos, Whipbirds, Honeyeaters and Robins. The closer we looked the more we began to comprehend the extent of the carnage, it was overwhelming and deeply sad. The ash entombing this avian graveyard stretched out along the beach as far as the eye could see. I also acknowledge the distress of farmers and landholders, who have had to deal with going back to their properties and witnessing dead and horribly injured stock. I have seen images, but I have not had to experience that at a personal level. The thought of it just horrifies me: the stress that these people, who I know love their animals, would have felt. I have heard some of their stories and their interviews. The trauma cannot be underestimated: the trauma of wildlife carers—I have spoken with many—having to euthanise incredibly injured, distressed and suffering animals; the trauma that farmers and landholders—entire farming families—have experienced, having to go back to their property; the trauma that entire communities are feeling, having to hear all of these stories and hear people's grief; and the trauma to our national psyche from what has happened to communities, our wildlife and our natural heritage. I acknowledge the Hon. Don Harwin's contribution about the bushfires' impact on Aboriginal heritage. There has been so much loss of some of the most incredible Aboriginal cultural sites, such as scar trees—again, something that communities are experiencing. I do not think that we really have any idea of how much has been lost. Lives are so important and we grieve for the loved ones and families of the people who have died, but as a nation we are grieving for so much more than that after these fires. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4261

The Hon. Penny Sharpe told the story of Two Thumbs Wildlife Trust. I had spoken with the owner of that koala sanctuary a number of times before the terrible fires that destroyed his property and heard what he was coping with. In the second week of January, I visited a number of wildlife carers down the South Coast, around Cooma. I heard of wildlife carers trying to save all of the koalas, kangaroos, wallabies, goannas and possums that had been taken in from one fire zone. They had to rescue them from a particular wildlife carer's place and take them to another one. There was a bizarre and very distressing situation in which the wildlife carers had nowhere safe to take these animals. James Fitzgerald from Two Thumbs Wildlife Trust told me about the situation with his koalas. He was scared of the fire that was going to rip through part of his sanctuary, which had a lot of koalas and joeys, that he had managed to protect up until that point. The Australian National University was studying this particular breed of koalas because they were the only koalas, as I understand it, in the whole country that had started to eat bark as well as leaves. On 23 January the air tanker went down with the loss of all on board: Captain Ian McBeth, First Officer Paul Hudson and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr of Coulson Aviation. They died protecting that koala sanctuary, which is in the Peakview district near Jerangle. Everything was destroyed in that blaze. The only reason that James Fitzgerald was not there at the time is that he had rushed one of his beloved koalas to the vet. He lost everything. I think it is very hard for James to deal with the pain that he feels for the koalas he lost, his life's work, but also potentially the guilt—not that he should have guilt—that those three brave firefighters died while they were saving his property. My heart goes out to James Fitzgerald. I hope he can get back on his feet soon and continue doing the work that he loves so much. People know that this fire season was different. Worse, I think that when they talk about the fire season they are scared about how much more of this type of fire season there is to come. It seemed that over the summer everyone was talking about climate change, including the victims of bushfires and people who had lost their homes. On 10 January the president of the Australian Academy of Sciences, Professor John Shine, AC, issued a statement confirming that this season's bushfires were unprecedented anywhere in the world. It stated: As an independent and authoritative scientific adviser to the parliament and to the nation, the Academy draws on the scientific expertise of Australia's leading scientists—the Fellows of the Academy. The scientific evidence base shows that as the world warms due to human induced climate change, we experience an increase in the frequency and severity of extreme weather events. As a nation, we must deal with extreme weather events more effectively than we currently do. As such events become more frequent and severe, we must adapt Australia and Australians accordingly, as well as strengthen mitigation efforts. Bushfires, along with other weather and climate challenges, pose complex and wide-ranging problems. Population growth, climate change, temperature extremes, droughts, storms, wind and floods are intersecting in ways that are difficult to untangle and address. … The Academy is resolute that the response to the bushfires must extend beyond the immediate and essential need to rebuild and recover. Everything, including urban planning; building standards; habitat restoration; biodiversity and species preservation; and land, water and wildlife management will need careful and measured consideration. We must further improve our ability to forecast changing environmental threats and continually improve climate modelling predictions. We must improve our understanding of fire behaviour and other adverse weather events, and we must continually develop new technologies, practices and behaviours to assist our nation to respond and adapt to, manage, and mitigate against such extreme events. All the while, Australia must take stronger action as its part of the worldwide commitment to limit global warming to 1.5°C above the long-term average to reduce the worst impacts of climate change. It was the academy that estimated that one billion animals have died this bushfire season. That estimate does not include birds, bats, fish, frogs and insects. One of the first areas in which fires started burning this season was around Dorrigo on the Northern Tablelands. The beautiful Mount Hyland Nature Reserve, part of the ancient Gondwana rainforest system, had never evolved to burn—but it burned. It burned right through. While many of the stories told about these fires have focused on the courageous efforts by countless volunteers to protect lives and property—and rightly so—many people also worked days and weeks on end to protect nature, to protect irreplaceable ecosystems such as rainforests and old-growth forests. I heard stories of volunteers working to protect tracts of old-growth forest, to protect ancient trees, because they knew how irreplaceable that area was and how vital those forests were to the threatened species that called those places home. Former Fire and Rescue NSW Commissioner Greg Mullins wrote an opinion piece for The Sydney Morning Herald on 10 September last year. He has written and spoken a lot since then. In the article he stated: The number of days of Very High fire danger and above are also increasing. This is a clear long-term trend, driven by the warming and drying effects of climate change. It is not conjecture, but established fact, verified by the CSIRO, the Bureau of Meteorology, and the Bushfire/Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre. With Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4262

climate change we know that the fire seasons are starting earlier and finishing later. The cumulative fire danger during a fire season is higher. We know that means that we will get more of the types of weather events that we have seen over the last few months. The fires have stopped for now, but the planet has not stopped heating. We will continue to experience more frequent, dangerous and extreme weather events. People have talked about how their summer will never be the same. Most people I know were affected by the fires. Many were on the South Coast. I know people who have properties that were burnt. Most of them are afraid of what next summer will bring. It is as if our whole notion of relaxing in summer and having beautiful summer holidays will never be the same. There has been some rain and people are talking about how some areas that were impacted just a couple of months ago have become green, but the rest of the State is in drought. Climate change has not gone away and many people who have been impacted are urging political leaders to take action. What communities saw and experienced over the summer has really scared them. They glimpsed a very frightening future that terrified them and they realised that was not an isolated case. Over the summer they urged political leaders—and they continue to urge us—to do everything within our power to change that. One thing the fires did was turn the world's eyes upon us to see how we act on climate change. This is a bushfire condolence motion but I know that many victims and people impacted by those bushfires will urge political leaders and decision-makers in this place to finally act on climate change. I commend the motion to the House and I look forward to working with members in this place to hopefully deliver a future that generations to come will have some confidence in. The Hon. LOU AMATO (20:52:07): This is one of the most difficult speeches I have given in this place. The scale of the devastation of the bushfires exceeds anything I have ever experienced in my lifetime. Millions of hectares of natural habitat have been decimated and most of the great wilderness areas of our State have been reduced to uninhabitable ash. Many of those wilderness areas, such as the Wollemi National Park, were the last great sanctuaries where countless species of plant and animal life lived in pristine ecosystems. Many plant and animal species were yet to be discovered. We have no idea how many species may have perished into extinction in the worst bushfires possibly ever to have hit our State. Our hope is that much of our fauna found refuge in pockets of bushland which escaped what can only be likened to a nuclear holocaust. Our sorrow is deep for the suffering that can only be imagined as an estimated one billion wild animals perished. However, the loss of fauna is far greater if we include the numbers of invertebrates that surely perished in the relentless flames. No accurate assessment of the total loss of life would ever be possible but must run into countless billions if we are to include the total loss of all animal life including invertebrates. Life is resilient and in the decades that follow much of our wilderness areas will regenerate, albeit seriously depleted of the abundance of plant and animal species that once existed. Many of our agricultural lands that experienced the devastation of prolonged drought have been utterly destroyed by fire. Almost 15,000 livestock perished and hundreds of thousands of hectares of agricultural land is now unproductive. Our farmers have suffered possibly one of the worst periods of drought and fire in living memory. Any words of ours can never express the hardship and suffering of our farmers and their children. We pray that in the months and years to come they may receive abundant rain and weather conditions, and that their harvests are plentiful and profitable. Many will leave the land in pursuit of other ventures. Our thoughts and best wishes go out to those who are challenged with finding new careers. May their new endeavours bring them peace and joy. Our thoughts are also with those who have chosen to fight on and battle the uncertainty of the future and remain on the land. We acknowledge the debt we owe to our farmers who feed us. We thank them for the contribution they have made to New South Wales, even in the most challenging of circumstances. Their courage and conviction is an example to all of us. In the devastation that reduced wilderness, farms and towns to ashes, the greatest tragedy was the loss of human life. I offer the sincere condolences of this House to the family and friends of the following who lost their lives in the bushfires. Not all the names of those who were lost have been released. We also offer our sincere condolences to all those who lost property and homes during the bushfires. I understand your grief. The following are those who lost their lives in New South Wales. On 9 October 2019 Bob Lindsay, 77, and Gwen Hyde, 68, from Coongbar near Keybarbin State Forest in northern New South Wales, died trying to save their isolated property. On 8 November 2019 Vivian Chapman, 69, from Wytaliba in the Northern Tablelands, died defending property and animals. George Nole, 85, from Kangawalla fire zone in the Northern Tablelands, was found dead in a burnt-out car. Julie Fletcher, 63, from Johns River between Port Macquarie and Taree, was found in a burnt-out home. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4263

Barry Parsons, 58, from Willawarrin, a property northwest of Kempsey, was found in burnt-out bushland not far from the property's shed. On 9 November 2019 Chris Savva, 64, from South Arm near Bowraville, successfully defended his home but was trapped after fire destroyed a wooden bridge, his only passage of escape. His body was found in an upturned sport utility vehicle. On 19 December 2019 Geoffrey Keaton, 32, and Andrew O'Dwyer, 35, volunteer firefighters from Horsley Park brigade, died battling the Green Wattle Creek fire near Buxton, not far from where I reside. On 29 December 2019 Russell Bratby, 59, from Yarrowitch, which is 70 kilometres southwest of Walcha, died six weeks after being winched to safety suffering severe burns. Mr Bratby was originally found by a National Parks and Wildlife Service officer on 7 November and died in the Royal North Shore Hospital. On 30 December 2019 Samuel McPaul, 28, a volunteer firefighter, died at Jingellic near Albury when a freak fire tornado flipped his eight-tonne fire truck. Robert Stalway, 63, and his son Patrick Stalway, 29, from Wandeall, 10 kilometres northwest of Cobargo, died trying to save their home and farming equipment. On 31 December 2019 Laurie Andrews, 70, from Yatte Yattah, was found dead outside his home. An unnamed man, 56, from Coolagolite near Cobargo, was discovered deceased by paramedics outside his house. Col Burns, 72, a volunteer firefighter, died protecting his own property at the head of the Belowra Valley. On 1 January 2020 John Butler, 75, from Yatte Yattah was found deceased in a burnt-out car on a road off the Princes Highway. Michael Campbell, 62, from Sussex Inlet, was found deceased in a car where the road was burnt out and locals and holiday-makers had evacuated to the beach. On 4 January 2020 David Harrison, 47, from Batlow died of a heart attack while helping his friend defend his home. On 6 January 2020 the body of John Smith, 71, from Nerrigundah was found. It is believed he died on New Year's Eve fighting to save his property. On 18 January 2020 Ross Rixon, 84, from Cobargo died from injuries after suffering critical burns while defending his property. On the 23 January 2020 an American firefighting aircrew of Captain Ian McBeth, 44, First Officer Paul Clyde Hudson, 42, and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr, 43, were killed when the C-130 Large Air Tanker they were flying crashed in the Snowy-Monaro region. On 24 January 2020 Michael Clarke, 59, from Bodalla was found in his home that had been destroyed by fire. Lives were also lost beyond our borders. The following are those who lost their lives in South Australia. On 20 December 2019 Ron Selth, 69, from Cudlee Creek died defending his farm. On 4 January 2020 Dick Lang, 78, and Clayton Lang, 43, from Kangaroo Island were engulfed by fire on their way back to the family property. The following are those who lost their lives in Victoria. On 30 November 2019 David Moresi, 69, from Johnsonville, a forest fire contractor, died in a vehicle rollover at W Tree. On 1 January 2020 Mick Roberts, 67, from Buchan died defending his home. Fred Becker from Maramingo Creek suffered a heart attack after defending his and neighbouring properties on new year's night. His body was found inside a fire-ravaged home. On 3 January 2020 Mat Kavanagh, 43, from Alexandra, a firefighter and veteran of the Marysville inferno on Black Saturday, died in a ute crash. On 11 January 2020 Bill Slade, 60, from Wonthaggi, a veteran firefighter, was killed by a falling tree at Anglers Rest near Omeo. On 3 January 2020 in the Australian Capital Territory an unnamed elderly woman from Canberra died due to bushfire smoke after disembarking from a plane in the nation's capital. As we process the devastation of the bushfires—and there is a lot to process—many questions will be asked. A tragedy of this scale is unprecedented in the history of New South Wales. There will be many things we could have done better. There will also be many things we did right. However, there is one thing we can be certain of: In the face of the demonic terror of the flames, courage prevailed and so many individuals went above and beyond the call of duty. We give thanks to all those who fought the advancing devastation of the worst bushfires in living memory. Our heartfelt thanks go out to all those who placed their own lives in peril, defending life and property. We are forever indebted to those who made the ultimate sacrifice and tragically lost their lives. We honour the bravery of the volunteer rural firefighters who tragically lost their lives in service to us all. We give thanks to the unbreakable friendship between Australia and the United States of America. In every major conflict we have fought side by side, united as one. During the bushfires once again we fought side by side to save lives and defend property. Sadly, three of our American brothers lost their lives in the war against the flames. We extend our deepest sympathy to the families and friends of Captain Ian McBeth, 44, First Officer Paul Clyde Hudson, 42, and Flight Engineer Rick DeMorgan Jr, 43, who were killed when their C-130 water bomber crashed. We can never repay the debt we owe to those brave men. Let us never forget them and the friendship that exists between our two great nations. I would like to mention the courage of a personal friend of mine, Dylan Whitelaw. Dylan is only 18 years old and is a volunteer member of the SES. Dylan was called out to assist in the removal of the bodies of RFS heroes Geoffrey Keaton and Andrew O'Dwyer, who both died battling the Green Wattle Creek fire near Buxton. Dylan and his SES team were surrounded by the fire and were instructed to remove the fallen from their overturned vehicle as quickly as possible. Dylan and his team decided they would brave the flames and respectfully remove Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4264

the bodies of Geoffrey Keaton and Andrew O'Dwyer. Dylan and his team placed themselves in serious danger to honour the fallen. We thank Dylan and all our SES volunteers for their bravery and commitment to the people of this State. I make special mention of Hugh McDermott, the member for Prospect in the other place, who was also fighting the fires in Wollondilly as a volunteer firefighter with the Horsley Park RFS. I thank him for all he has done. I thank my good mate and colleague Nathaniel Smith, the member for Wollondilly. During the bushfires and in the aftermath Nathaniel has been a rock in the community. It is in times of tragedy that the character of a person is judged. During the tragedy of the bushfires Nathaniel has shown the strength of his character through his commitment to the Southern Highlands community and the people of Wollondilly. We are fortunate to have him representing the Wollondilly electorate. We thank Nat for all the support he has given during this most challenging time. I also thank my good mate the Hon. Angus Taylor, the member for Hume. Angus, just like Nathaniel, had his boots on the ground visiting RFS fire stations and members of the community. Both Angus and Nathaniel were a great support to the community and we worked together as a team to support the people of Wollondilly and the Southern Highlands. In the face of such devastation one feels terribly inadequate and at times overwhelmed. Working with Angus and Nathaniel as a team was essential in order to remain focused and effective. We will continue to work as a team during the rebuilding of our communities. I conclude by thanking our Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, for her leadership during our worst natural disaster in living memory. As the news of tragedy after tragedy came flooding into the Premier's office, one can only imagine the incredible pressure placed upon our leader. During the months of pain and suffering our Premier remained focused and strong. We thank the Premier for her leadership and strength. As we move into the rebuilding phase of this tragedy, we must reflect on the lessons learned and make sure that a tragedy of this scale is avoided in the future. The Hon. SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE (21:07:30): I make a short contribution to the condolence motion on the 2019-20 bushfires moved by the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council. Never in living memory has Australia witnessed such a devastating natural disaster. The impact penetrated the hearts and souls of all Australians and of many people around the world, but most of all we felt pain for those who lost their lives and for the families who have lost loved ones or have lost their homes and their properties. Many will recover but many may never forget the pain, the fear and the sense of helplessness. The events of the past few months have changed us forever, leaving a toll that has shocked not just our State and our nation but the entire world. Twenty-five lives were lost here in New South Wales, including six brave firefighters. The State memorial held last weekend was a fitting tribute, one that spoke of the agony of a nation. Those firefighters have our deepest respects for they paid the ultimate price. Their sacrifice will be etched in our hearts and we will always remember them. Almost 2,400 homes were destroyed, 11,000 properties were lost or damaged, 5.5 million hectares of bushland were wiped out and—the figures are staggering, almost surreal— an estimated 1.25 billion-plus of our wildlife perished. The economic and environmental costs are simply incalculable. Everything seemed to have come to a complete halt. For many close to the fires, life was at risk. The air, poisoned with thick smoke, appeared to drown the entire State. It was a burning summer like no other. The psychological scars will take years to heal. For some, the scars never will. The resilient people of this great nation of ours will pick up the pieces and carry on. I pay tribute to many in our multicultural communities. Their response was simply phenomenal. I could only hold my head high when watching multicultural communities do whatever was possible to help fire-affected communities across New South Wales. It was overwhelmingly heartwarming. The true Aussie spirit and our values of compassion and helping those in need have been a beacon of hope in the wake of the bushfire crisis. Communities have come together in solidarity to support our exhausted firies and volunteers. I acknowledge them for their heartfelt dedication, their humanity and their services, for they are our heroes. Today we acknowledge the people who lost their lives, their families, their friends and their communities. We owe them a deep debt of gratitude as we do to all firefighting agencies and communities that stood up and lent a hand to help people to get back on their feet. Our gratitude goes to Fire and Rescue NSW, our National Parks and Wildlife Service, the Forestry Corporation, our SES, our police, our councils, our paramedics, nurses, unions and all emergency services personnel as well as the Australian Defence Force. We also pay our respects and condolences to the families of the three US personnel who tragically lost their lives. Our sympathies go to their families. Finally, we thank New Zealand, Singapore, Canada, Papua New Guinea, Indonesia, Fiji and Japan for stepping up and lending a hand. Words will never suffice to honour those who lost their lives and those who lost their properties, homes and livelihoods, as well as the thousands of ordinary men and women who put their lives on hold to protect the Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4265

community. Our words cannot capture the pain in loss of life, but we salute them, we bow our heads to them, and we will always remember them. Mr JUSTIN FIELD (21:11:54): I join with my parliamentary colleagues to express my condolences to the communities that have been impacted by this season's bushfires that resulted in 25 lives lost, 2,400-odd homes destroyed, much more infrastructure as well, and more than 5.5 million hectares burned, including some of our most precious natural places like our forests and World Heritage listed areas. It is estimated that a billion animals perished in the fires. Businesses were destroyed or disrupted. The numbers are staggering. I know that many have been prepared to acknowledge what seemed difficult to accept at the start of the season, but now is absolutely unquestionable—that this was an unprecedented set of circumstances faced by our community over the past few months. I acknowledge the selfless contribution of so many people: professional and volunteer firefighters, of course, and so many in our communities who were forced to become firefighters at a time when their communities felt the fire fronts coming across. As we know, some made the ultimate sacrifice and we cannot say enough about that sacrifice except that, for them, it was made for their families and loved ones. So many gave countless hours— weeks and months—away from family and friends at a time when normally they would have been on holidays. We should keep in mind over the course of this year that so many people have not had the break they normally would have taken. That will have an impact on us, how we work and how we interact with each other. Downtime is so important and many people have not had that. Instead, they have had a very much heightened sense of alert and anxiety for a long period. For those people, thank you is not nearly enough—but thank you. So many contributed in other ways. Where I live on the South Coast people were running their own boats in either southerly or northerly directions out of the harbour at Ulladulla in pretty ordinary circumstances to take water, basic food supplies and nappies to isolated communities. Others were organising local donation drives. Thousands of dollars were raised—and food, perishables, clothing and bedding were donated. People were setting up local community recovery centres and filling the gap caused by the breadth of the fires. Government was not able to step in immediately, so the people did. Some people ran things and some people volunteered. They cooked a few meals for those who were forced to evacuate before some evacuation centres were open. Many people have spent time rescuing wildlife, making wildlife feeding and drinking stations and taking food out into the bush. Some people took care of a neighbour's child or a pet so that their neighbour could fight fires, try to tidy up their home or help someone else. It might have been taking a drink of water out to someone who was stuck in an hours-long evacuation traffic jam or offering to charge mobile phones so that people could listen to the radio, or it might have been sharing the most up-to-date news with a neighbour who did not have a wireless when so many were out of power for a long time—there were millions of acts of generosity and humanity. People just did what they needed to do, and I acknowledge that. Separately, I acknowledge the public servants and local government staff. Some were involved in day-to-day firefighting or in coordinating response and recovery efforts. In particular, local government staff have been at the front line for so many communities. Amazing leadership has been shown by many local councillors and mayors across the State. The fires have had a really broad impact on the New South Wales community. The fires started on the North Coast four or so months ago and people have been living with the consequences for a long time. They are at a very different stage of recovery compared with those who experienced the fires in December and January. I base my comments on what I saw in my community in the Shoalhaven, but it is not meant in any way to diminish the broader impacts felt by people across the State. I will speak first about the horrible unfairness that you feel when you live in a community that has had so much fire in the landscape. Some people are severely impacted and others escaped damage for no rhyme or reason. I live about eight kilometres from Conjola Park and Yatte Yattah. Those communities were almost wiped off the face of the planet on New Year's Day, like Malua Bay and Mogo further south in my region. They really did face the worst. When you live in a place with so much fire, it strikes you how much of a role chance plays. I think about 80 per cent of the Shoalhaven was burnt. Many people will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. When a community like Conjola suffered so much when some neighbouring communities just across the lake had fire right up to the doorstep but did not lose any property it is very difficult to make sense of. No doubt a range of reasons and circumstances can explain some of this, but when you are in the path of these sorts of fires at the wrong time, with the wrong heat and the wrong wind direction, there seems to be little that can be done. Some communities were saved by the same southerly change that put other communities right in the path of the fire. We like to be able to explain things that happen to us; that is understandable. We need to be able to understand things to put them into perspective and move on. Without that, people will often look for someone or some set of circumstances to blame. I can see that happening in our communities now. I think some of that blame is not being directed where it should be and some of it is being directed in dangerous places. We have to keep that very much in mind in the process of inquiry. The telling of stories, as some have mentioned, is incredibly important Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4266

for people to be able to recognise that others around them have had experiences too. It helps them to understand and put things in context. It might help people to learn that they are not going to be able to explain these things and they will then get a chance to move on. Otherwise, we will face a situation where things could get difficult over the next few months. I drove up here on Monday morning. I drive past Conjola Park to come up to Sydney. I have been around those areas supporting wildlife care over the last little while. Conjola Park and Yatte Yattah are still largely just a gated community with temporary fencing up. It is well over a month now—six weeks. Largely those communities have not been able to move forward. No clean-up has started yet. I think there were issues around where the rubble and stuff was going to go, appointment of contractors and the like. The longer it goes and with all of that uncertainty, that will make things really challenging for those communities down there. The other thing that was really clear is that we do not have a plan. We should all acknowledge we did not have a plan to fight this type, this breadth or this extent of fires. We did not have a plan to respond immediately when communities got cut off and lost power, water and phones. We do not have a plan for rebuilding these communities and we do not have a plan for rehabilitating the landscape. I think we should just be really honest about that. No-one is necessarily to blame for this. It was unprecedented. It was unprecedented in breadth and scale. I acknowledge that it would have been almost impossible to foresee just how broad the impacts would be or for any level of government to have the resources on stand-by, ready to go. But it is pretty clear that we do not have a plan. And I know that we do not have a plan because I live in a community that was cut off for days—north, south and west—that lost power for up to 10 days in some of the villages and a few days in some of the major centres, where we had thousands of visitors whose only means of eating was going out to restaurants. On New Year's Eve when we lost power in the middle of the day and all of the shops shut, no-one had anywhere to go to get food. Nothing was open. All the pubs shut, all the restaurants shut, the IGA shut and Woolworths shut. Ice disappeared in about an hour and a half, as you can imagine. The eskies lasted a little while. Thankfully in Ulladulla and Milton power came on relatively quickly. I will talk about this, but when we saw the extent of damage to the electricity network down there it was remarkable that they got power on to the major centres as early as they did. I remember having to race to get ice. This is the absurdity of what happened and the lack of a plan. There was a lot of angst about the fireworks on New Year's Eve. I know this happened in Sydney as well. People thought it did not reflect well on the community that we would have fireworks when so many were facing the brunt of the fires. We were having that same debate locally in Ulladulla. There were fireworks planned for the harbour and there was going to be a bit of a community push to do something separate from that—to have a bit of a community event that did not rely on the fireworks. There was a push to not have the fireworks go ahead and to have another way of expressing our New Year's joy. We were still talking about that on the morning of New Year's Eve. I went to the gym. It seemed like a relatively normal day. The fire was all around, but it did not seem to be having a direct impact on the community on that particular day. I came home from the gym and it was like the world had changed. The colour of the sky had changed. I came up to my house and it was clear that the fire had spotted in the grasslands at the school a couple of hundred metres away. The intensity of the blaze was phenomenal. We lost power. I ran to the IGA to get some ice because we did not know how long that was going to continue and I realised, "Hang on—that smoke's blowing in the wrong direction. My son's at day care only a couple of kays that way and there's bunches of bushland between here and there. I'd better go and get him." I drive there and there are no traffic lights—they are all out, and they are out in a community where everyone is driving around crazily, not really knowing what to do. And it is not like there were any police available to manage the traffic lights anywhere in the region, because they were busy doing other things—understandably so. You get the situation when everyone realised it—no New Year's event happened at all because that evening and the next morning was when Conjola and Yatte Yattah disappeared—the intensity of it all. We were having this discussion about how we were going to celebrate New Year's and try to do it in a respectful way and then everything just went into lockdown. No-one had anywhere to go for New Year's Eve celebrations. They could not eat. They could not get ice. We did not have power. The phones lasted for another 12 hours or so until the telecommunications generators ran out of fuel. We did not have a plan for this. It is understandable, but let us learn some lessons about what happens when you allow coastal villages to be overdeveloped. One road in, one road out—they are so easily cut off. They live in very fire-prone places and the evacuation centre that is set up does not have a backup generator. Thankfully Stardust Circus was there. It did not run that day or for a few days, but it had a couple of generators it lent to the evacuation centre, so there were lights at the only place that people could go when one of the worst days was impacting on the community. It is absurd, really, that we did not have any plan to deal with that. Let us take those lessons on board as the inquiries and reviews progress and think about what is needed. As we know, these things could very well happen again. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4267

We need to be honest as well. These fires were not normal. We have talked about them being unprecedented and broadly I think that everyone has come around to acknowledge that climate change is worsening fire risk. We have experienced one of the worst droughts on record, which has come on the back of a couple of decades of a drying trend in the landscape. We know that under those circumstances fire risk is extreme. I know this is a condolence debate. I do not want to get caught up in the blame game, but we do need to be honest. There has been a lack of honesty from some political leaders, which I have found disappointing, who have wanted to use the fires to prosecute some other partisan political battles and who have misrepresented the facts. We need to be honest about land management. One of the areas of consensus pretty early on—hopefully we will get back to it—is that we are not doing land management well. We are certainly not doing it in a way that reflects these sorts of risks and the needs of communities. We need to talk about the resourcing of land management. We need to talk about hazard reduction, what its capacities are, what its needs are and how it interacts with different sorts of land tenure. The Currowan fire on the South Coast started in an active logging coupe in the Currowan State Forest. The original media reporting was of the foresters, the contractors who were in there who had to flee the fire as it ignited and started moving across the landscape. They had to leave machinery in the forest that got destroyed. For people to then try to put the blame on the environment side of this discussion—National Parks, greenies talking about greenies and the bureaucracy, so many of whom have no doubt worked in a tireless fashion to help Government put some plans together to respond—I think there has been dishonesty there. These fires spread through all land tenures. They started in all land tenures. They started in a heap of different ways—some natural, some through bad actions of individuals although not necessarily from people deliberating starting fires but accidentally starting fires or letting fires that should not have been ignited get out of control, some were lightning strikes and the like. Let us not try to circulate nonsense arguments about this. That will not serve anyone well. People are taking their lead in these public discussions from political leaders who should know better. Do not talk about fuel loads as if you know what you are talking about when it comes to these sorts of fires. I have walked through areas of forestry in the past week that have 100 tonnes of logging slash on the ground that has been sitting there for months and months right through this fire. It has just been left there. Some of it burnt. When you look at where that burnt, it is insane—the intensity of the fires that went through those forestry coupes. When you see it adjacent to those areas that burnt that had not been logged recently, the difference in the landscape is very different. Let us be honest about that. Let us have a look and understand how our actions in the landscape change fire behaviour. That is going to be really important as we work out how to regenerate the landscape. Trust me, we need to do that if we want to mitigate the worst impacts of climate change because every tree counts now—every tree counts. A large tree sequesters 70 per cent of its carbon in the last half of its life. Where I live, the spotted gums live for 500 years. The vast majority of their carbon is sequestered from the 250-year mark to the 500-year mark. Most of the trees in the areas of State forest that are recovering now are 20, 30 or 40 years old. They may be 100, 120 or 150 years old in national parks. We have to be honest about what we have done and the impact it has had. That can help to inform how we try and reduce the impacts on these areas into the future. Don't talk to me about fuel loads. I evacuated my family on 3 January. We drove out just before sunrise on that Friday morning with fire either side of the road coming out of Milton. Every single power pole for 10 kilometres was on its arse. Where were they standing? Not in a forest. They were standing in pasture that had died from drought and had been chewed out. They were standing in 10 centimetres of grass and they had all been burnt off at the base. The reality of these fires is that at that rate the air is fuel. That is all it needs. Let's be honest about this whole discussion on fuel loads. Another thing that I have noticed in my community is this really deep and broad sense of guilt. I evacuated my family on the third, before the really bad day of the fourth was anticipated. We had already seen the impact of New Year's Eve and New Year's Day at Conjola and Yatte Yattah. It was a hard decision because the highway was blocked about 500 metres from our house, on the northern edge of Milton. There was a 60-kilometre long traffic jam. The road was blocked for 14 hours. We could not get out of our house during that time because our street was a rat run and the town of Milton was totally locked, which made getting Banjo a second time from day care very interesting. I hope the police were not watching some of the driving behaviour in the town that day. It was interesting to see. There was good camaraderie on the streets but a lot of the people who had been told to evacuate had left Batemans and Narooma between 4.00 a.m. and 6.00 a.m. that morning. They were blocked when they reached Milton. They thought it would be closed for only a couple of hours, as they had been advised, but it was closed for 14 hours. We heard the ignitions start at 2.30 a.m. We had made a decision, as a family with a young child and Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4268

three pets, to go if they opened the road. It looked like the power was going to go out again and we had lost water at that stage. We did not want to be another bunch of mouths to feed at the evacuation centre. I cannot tell you how terrible I felt with that decision. You can ask my wife. For the week we were in Sydney—luckily we had a place to go to—I just felt this deep sense of guilt. I thought it was just me. I thought some of it was this public discussion that was going on about politicians who probably had not lived up to the game. There was not much I could do. I had to put my family first at that time. But going back down, one of the things that we did the next week was go to a three-year-old's birthday party. Kids' birthday parties are a great way to bring you back to earth. You are forced to talk to absolutely everyone in your community with different political views, levels of engagement and interest in political issues. Everyone wanted to talk about their experiences. I shared mine and they shared theirs. I expressed to someone that I had this sense of guilt about not being there, that I had essentially walked away from my community for that period of time. Every person I spoke to that day reflected that back to me as well. They felt guilty too. They felt guilty that they might have evacuated. Some felt guilty that they had decided to evacuate to the beach while their neighbours wanted to stay and look after their place. Some felt guilty because they did not lose anything. They just felt guilty about that. I talked to one of the blokes who ran the pop-up community relief centre and they had had so many donations. They had packed the hall and could not take anything more. I asked him about who was coming in and whether or not they were really busy. They really were not. People who had lost everything did not feel like they should take anything. He said to me that people were feeling guilty that others had lost more. I think there is something in this, when an entire community has had all of these different experiences—some were there, some were not, some could do more, some did a lot—and they all felt this sense of guilt. I think this is going to be something that is profound in our community for a long period of time and will have really deep consequences for how we move forward as a community. There are a few downers in there. Of course, the resilience and all of the deep community connections that have formed as a result of responses to these fires are incredibly profound and they will have meaningful impacts on my community for a long time. People know their neighbours much better and they are prepared to talk to them about things; they have had to. They have not been able to do it on their own; they have had to work with others. That will also have very profound, deep and meaningful impacts on our community. We have learned the lesson that when these significant impacts happen we cannot rely on governments; we have to rely on communities and on each other. Our communities are going to have to be more resilient at all times. No one person is to blame for this season's bushfires. In great fairness, if there is any blame to be apportioned, this group here as a collective probably has as much responsibility as anyone in this State. The people who sit here now and the people who have sat on these benches before us have made decisions about the allocation of resources that could have made a difference—in land management resources, in the design of electricity networks and in planning decisions such as, "A whole heap of people can live there but we are not going to give them the infrastructure to be able to escape." There are so many decisions that could have been made that would have improved outcomes. Collectively across all parliaments in this State and this nation, we could have taken more action to address climate change, which would have mitigated some of the risks associated with these bushfires. If we are prepared to accept that we have blame on our hands, we can also accept that we have both the power and the responsibility to do something about that now. There are lots of things that we can do and we will be informed by the inquiries that are going to happen now. We will do well if we talk to each other about the experiences that we have had and what we can meaningfully work together on. In the rebuilding process, let us do it smarter. Let us look at how we can do things differently in the design of our communities, the resilience of our energy systems and the resilience of our communication systems as we rebuild. In thinking about what will happen next time there is a disaster and communities are forced to work together, we can make sure that they have the skills and tools to be able to do that. I appreciate the opportunity to extend my condolences to all those in New South Wales who have been affected by these fires and particularly to my community on the South Coast. I acknowledge in particular the work of Mayor Amanda Findley, who was a tremendous source of comfort for the community and who has a very calm mind. She was always prepared to tell people how it was and to try to be a source of information and comfort for people. She has been tireless in her efforts to get around and do what she can. There is only so much that local government can do but she has certainly done as much as she can. That is not to take away from all of the individual contributions that have been made across the Shoalhaven and more broadly, which I want to acknowledge here tonight. 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The Hon. TAYLOR MARTIN (21:38:38): I place on the record my condolences for the people who lost their lives during this past summer's bushfire season and for their families. Like everyone in New South Wales, I was deeply saddened by the news of the deaths of Rural Fire Service members Geoffrey Keaton, Andrew O'Dwyer and Samuel McPaul, as well as Coulson Aviation flight crew members Ian Macbeth, Paul Hudson and Rick DeMorgan Jr. I join my colleagues in offering my sympathies to those who have been affected by the fires, whether through the death of loved ones, through injury or through the loss of or damage to their own homes, properties, livelihoods and businesses. The numbers from this fire season are difficult to comprehend. Tomorrow will mark 200 days of major incident operations for the NSW Rural Fire Service. It is unprecedented. Over the past eight months there have been 11,396 separate bushfires and grassfires across the State of New South Wales, burning around 5.49 million hectares. Around 2,400 homes have been completely destroyed and a further 945 have been damaged. In total, well over 11,000 buildings in Australia have been destroyed or damaged. Our wildlife has also been impacted, with large numbers of animals killed by the fires, which has been outlined by previous speakers this evening. The fires impacted so many communities up and down the New South Wales coast and inland. Last year I spoke in this place about the fires that impacted North Rothbury and Greta in the Hunter Valley on 12 November. The North Rothbury fire threatened people and property as it took hold rapidly. The Newcastle Herald reported that flames from the fire were more than 100 feet high. Residents said that the firefighters got there very quickly, hosing down roofs and putting out spot fires. The bushfire at Greta also damaged property and caused concern about the possible loss of homes as it quickly spread and burned 34 hectares of bushland, with the fire front just metres from homes. The quick response from firefighters, including the 737 Large Air Tanker Marie Bashir, and crews from Victoria ensured that no homes were lost. The Central Coast did not escape the impact of the fires. For more than two weeks the mountain community watched, waited and prepared for the Three Mile fire—which adjoined the massive Gospers Mountain fire—to impact the region, as its 60-kilometre front moved east across the Dharug and Yengo national parks. Residents prepared their properties, with some moving a large amount of the contents of their homes to safer locations. The RFS held regular community meetings, advising residents on how to prepare. On 5 December the fire had already burnt 11,392 hectares when it arrived and impacted the areas of Lower Mangrove, Greengrove, Mangrove Creek and Mangrove Mountain. The day before the fire had crossed Mangrove Creek. RFS units and two helicopters fought to protect homes and other property. A few days of respite gave crews the opportunity to back-burn ahead of the fire. By 10 December, when conditions once again intensified, the fire had grown to 31,000 hectares in size and was impacting Kulnura as well. The fire broke containment lines in a few places but crews were able to contain it quickly with the help of dozens of trucks, helicopters and the 737 Large Air Tanker. Over the following week and a half, firefighters from the RFS, National Parks and Wildlife Service, Fire and Rescue NSW and Forestry Corporation, and crews from New Zealand worked to contain the fire, which burnt more than 45,000 hectares in total and at one stage had a perimeter totalling 500 kilometres. The fire was officially contained on 22 December. Some property was damaged, but the community escaped most of the devastation that was felt elsewhere throughout the State. A similar threat also existed in Wollombi near Cessnock as multiple fire fronts loomed large, including the Gospers Mountain blaze to the south, the Little L fire to the west, the Crumps Complex fire to the east and the Owendale blaze to the north. On 10 December there were more than 20 tankers and 37 crews in the village. Among with them were crews from Sydney, Victoria, New Zealand and the United States of America. The Advertiser in Cessnock reported that Fire and Rescue set up three tankers surrounding the Wollombi Tavern to protect "the most important place in town". In the early hours of 31 December a new fire began in Charmhaven, quickly jumped Wallarah Creek and started burning north. Although it was smaller than the fires burning on the South Coast that day, the impact was still considerable. Homes and fences caught fire as the front raged past Blue Haven. A fire also caused concern at Wangi Wangi on New Year's Eve, burning more than 148 hectares of bushland and causing residents in Wangi and Arcadia Vale to implement their bushfire survival plans. I thank the firefighters who tackled the blazes on the Central Coast and the Lower Hunter. I acknowledge that many of those involved in fighting those fires have also been deployed elsewhere in the State throughout this horrific season. Finally, I want to mention the Coasties' Bushfire Appeal, which was held last Friday evening. Earlier this year I joined a committee of locals, chaired by Gareth McCray of Radio 2CH fame, which formed to organise a fundraising dinner and auction of charity items to support Central Coast Rural Fire Service brigades and the families of the heroic RFS volunteers who sadly lost their lives this season. The committee included Maria Said, Jon Ursino, Kiryn Clay, Michael Hayes, Captain Angela Burford, Superintendent Vicky Campbell, Sue Dengate, John Irvine, Jilly Pilon and Mary Crammond. I am pleased to report that the gala dinner was a great success. It was totally sold out, with 126 people in attendance, including Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons, the Minister for Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4270

Police and Emergency Services, David Elliott, MP, and the member for Terrigal and Parliamentary Secretary for the Central Coast, Adam Crouch. We raised more than $48,000, which I know will be put to good use—half of the funds raised are going to the families of Geoffrey Keaton, Andrew O'Dwyer and Sam McPaul and the other half are going to local Central Coast RFS brigades. I thank the businesses in particular that donated items and supported the event so generously. There are so many stories from these fires and there are too many people to thank. This fire season has put considerable strain on our State, but we could not have made it without the thousands of volunteers and emergency services personnel who have worked tirelessly over a long period. I acknowledge the exceptional leadership of NSW Rural Fire Service Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons. I do not think that we could adequately articulate how grateful we are for his leadership. He leads an organisation with more than 70,000 brave volunteers, many of whom serve as a member of one of the 86 brigades on the Central Coast and Lower Hunter. I also acknowledge the supporting emergency services, including Fire and Rescue NSW, the NSW Police Force, the Forestry Corporation of NSW, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NSW Ambulance and the New South Wales State Emergency Service for their efforts in tackling these fires. Everybody who lived in New South Wales throughout this devastating fire season will forever remember the efforts and sacrifice made by all who endeavoured to save and protect life and property over the past several months. Debate adjourned. Adjournment Debate ADJOURNMENT The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That this House do now adjourn. BUSHFIRES The Hon. LOU AMATO (21:47:26): In the coming months there will be much soul-searching over the devastation of the bushfires and what could have been better. We will hear many conflicting views. Some of those views will be politically motivated and some will be made out of grief and hurt. Some people will resort to finger pointing and assigning the blame to anyone who has a different political view than their own. It has been said to me that hindsight is the most exacting of sciences. It is easy to have all the right answers after the event. We acknowledge that there are many things we could have done better. We also acknowledge the great things that we have done. Some people already in their private conversations with like-minded colleagues assign blame to previous governments, particular political parties and the current government. Like everyone, I have my own opinions, which will differ from many of my fellow members in this place. Even within our own political parties we see differing views. As we seek answers and find solutions, we must embrace the diversity of views and opinions. No one person or political party has a monopoly on the truth. Sadly, the nature of politics is to jump on a tragedy and use it as a political point-scoring moment. We cannot let that happen. All of us must resist the temptation to assign blame and we must work together in unity for the people of this State. No doubt many of the decisions made by members of Parliament may have indeed exacerbated the devastation due to the fires. Conversely, many decisions may have lessened the suffering. We must remember two important points: Firstly, no-one could possibly have foreseen the level of devastation that the bushfires caused; and, secondly, no-one in this place or the other place wanted this tragedy to happen. We may have different theories and opinions on certain actions that may have exacerbated the situation; however, regardless of our political affiliation or personal belief, no-one intended the suffering that our State has endured. Now more than ever, we must put all political differences aside and work as a united team for the people of our State. The people expect nothing less. Any attempt at political pointscoring, however subtle, will not be received by the people as a positive move forward. As we move forward and our knowledge improves about what we can do better in a crisis such as the bushfires, everyone—including me—will learn new things. Some of the things learned may support one's existing opinions or convictions or may require a total rethink and a change of position. It is our task to be open and honest with ourselves so we can seek the humility to accept where we went wrong. If we find we were wrong in our assumptions, we change them. If we are found to be correct, we must continue to maintain humility and resist the temptation to engage in political pointscoring. To improve our knowledge, our consultations must include all members of the community. Only through shared experience can we hope to arrive at the truth. We need to know from those who suffered loss and trauma how adequately our emergency services and support teams met their expectations. We also need to know how Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4271

well we met the expectations of our emergency service people and volunteers. As a representative of my community and one who suffered substantial property loss due to the fires, I have had the opportunity to share my own experience with fellow residents, many of whom suffered far greater loss than I. The resounding message from the people is clear: They wish to speak. The only way we can possibly understand the enormity of the bushfire tragedy is to hear from people who were affected. It will be our duty as representatives of the people to listen their voices, work as a united team and provide the best possible fire response services. Our task will be to supplement the independent inquiry into the bushfires with the lived experience of the people. New South Wales has suffered the worst natural disaster in living memory. So much has been lost and so many questions need to be answered. We cannot know how to find answers until we identify the questions. We at least know one answer to the most important question before us: Where do we go to seek the questions that need to be answered? The answer is: Consult the people, the victims who have suffered the worst tragedy New South Wales has faced in living memory. JETSTAR WORKERS WATER THEFT The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY (21:52:16): Every Australian ought to be paid enough to set their kids up for a great future. Jetstar workers are coming together through their union, the Transport Workers Union, to stave off their corporate CEO's plan to starve them of the hours they need to set their kids up for a great future. I marched with them at Sydney Airport last Wednesday. The Hon. Mark Buttigieg marched with them last Wednesday. My four-year-old son chanted louder than any of them at Sydney Airport last Wednesday. It was the third time in three months I have joined Jetstar's workers in their quest to end 10 years of raw corporate power pitted against the wages and working conditions of Australia's airline workers. Their persistence and solidarity is an inspiration to every Australian who believes that people who work for a living should earn a living. They will need to persist to overcome the arrogance and belligerence of their CEO. Jetstar's CEO is refusing to listen to any proposal from his workforce which might restore peace in his company. Two weeks ago he chose to end all talks with his workforce. He is making a mockery of good-faith bargaining, which is the standard the community expects from corporations in setting people's pay and conditions. Jetstar's CEO is choosing industrial conflict instead of conversations with the people who make his airline great. If Jetstar's CEO succeeds, his boss—the Qantas CEO—will follow his lead with his workforce. We will have a race to the bottom in people's pay and conditions at Australia's airports. In Australia we embrace hard work. We believe in opportunity for all and in treating others like we want to be treated. Disrespecting people's hard work is out of line with the values Australians hold dear. Jetstar's corporate leaders are used to setting the rules without challenge. They are being challenged now. Jetstar's workers are challenging their corporate leaders to provide them with enough hours to care for themselves and their families. They are challenging their corporate leaders to guarantee that workplaces have safe conditions. They are coming together to create a powerful collective that can win better conditions for the next generation—better conditions than they inherited. Their campaign will take time. Jetstar's corporate leaders are not easily moved, but its workers have the solidarity of the Labor movement, the solidarity of the Labor Party and the good wishes of every Australian who believes in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. In the past 10 days I have heard the anger and confusion of western and southern New South Wales about all the jerking around about floodplain harvesting. For many people the kerfuffle summons the worst memories of the still unresolved water theft scandal, which undermined the confidence of western New South Wales under this Government and its water authorities. I place on record what western and southern New South Wales have read. The Sydney Morning Herald states: The Berejiklian government has lifted a ban on irrigators harvesting water from floodplains and pumping from parts of the Murray Darling River system … The Guardian states: New South Wales bureaucrats sought urgent advice from major cotton farmers about how recent rainfall might damage their water harvesting infrastructure, in an apparent effort to justify giving them the green light to retain the first rainfall in over a year, rather than letting it flow downstream. … Emails obtained by the Guardian show the NSW Department of Planning, Industry and Environment asked irrigator groups for “urgent” advice on and examples of the sort of damage that their members might incur to levees, pumps and regulators if the water was allowed to flow … But by the time the emails were sent, the NSW government had already given the large cotton growing areas a three-day exemption from the embargo. Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4272

People in western and southern New South Wales remember the water theft scandal and when they read those reports they wonder if the culture of collusion between Government and an elite group of cotton farmers has ever really ended. Nobody knows how much floodwater was harvested in the three days during which a select group of farmers were allowed to pump. No meaningful explanation from the Government has been forthcoming. We know this. We rejoice when floodwater hits towns like Brewarrina. The whole town heads to the weir and farmers receive relief from years of drought. We celebrate irrigation farming, the jobs it sustains and the wealth it creates but we insist on the rule of law. For the Murray-Darling River, one rule should apply to all. No-one should be getting special treatment because of whom they know or to which political party they donate. This floodplain harvesting episode raises serious questions about whether lessons from the water theft scandal have been learnt. The Natural Resources Access Regulator, who is meant to be responsible for law enforcement on the Murray-Darling River, must explain what it knows and must confirm whether or not it is investigating. REGIONAL NEW SOUTH WALES The Hon. MARK BANASIAK (21:57:13): Regional New South Wales is suffering. We all know that; the Deputy Premier knows it. Even if he will not do anything about it, he has admitted to the media that our regions are suffering—no surprises there. This Government has been in office for nine years. The drought started in mid-2017 and it took 18 months before anyone in Cabinet acknowledged it. By the time they did, our farmers were already through their reserve supplies of food and fodder. They were already buying and bringing in water and the freight they were paying for both was sending them under. Yet this Government had the audacity to talk about farmers' preparedness. What about government preparedness? This is not the first time New South Wales has experienced drought. Our farmers had silos full of back-up fodder. They were prepared. This Government was not, but it did have the opportunity to prepare. The Government—and The Nationals in particular—talks a big game when it comes to water infrastructure, but in 2015 the land for the Tillegra Dam proposal was sold off. Do members remember the Tillegra Dam? It is the dam that would have supplied 450 gigalitres of water to the Hunter and beyond. However, after $100 million was spent, when shovels had almost hit the ground, it was canned. Then the Government sold off the land. In times of drought it serves The Nationals well to talk about water infrastructure, but being prepared means having those conversations and doing something before disaster strikes. It is truly frightening that drought is not the only terrifying disaster that we face in Australia. Our farmers, our regions and our Government must prepare for the fire season, which comes around every summer. How can we be prepared to fight fires in times of drought? A little preparedness always helps. A little investment where it really matters would also help. For the Government to say the mega fires we experienced this year were "unprecedented" is offensive to just about every bush property owner. Clyde Thomas, the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers candidate for the Bega electorate in the 2019 State election, spent a month evacuated from his home in Kiah, on the border of New South Wales and Victoria, because of the now-infamous Border Fire. In March 2019 he made the following comments: Bushfire is the greatest threat we have in our electorate and we need to counter that by ensuring our towns, our homes, and our lives are protected at all costs. Clyde predicted the exact spread of the fire. He knew it was coming and where it would go, but his warnings were ignored in favour of the arts or property development. Our regions want to prepare but they are being systemically strangled by green tape. Now they have been decimated twofold. This Government was not preparing for anything except its members' retirements. Members of this Government are like bowerbirds, fluttering around and pinching pretty things to feather their own nests. Our commercial and recreational fishers have felt the bowerbird on their branches since the nineties. Now, under the share trading scheme, they are seeing their livelihoods being taken from them and given to the bureaucracy and the faceless men who sit in hairdressing salons and physiotherapist rooms while trying their hands at mud-crabbing. It is dodgy—but everything this Government does or does not do appears to be dodgy. We have a coalition in government whose respective ideologies are directly opposed. No wonder we see no action, no preparedness. The Restart NSW funds were the perfect example. Some 30 per cent should have gone to our regions, but under the watchful eye of The Nationals the regions only got 18.5 per cent of those funds. There was no fight, pretend or otherwise. That money was to go directly towards rural and regional infrastructure. It could have been water infrastructure—something that is crucial in times of drought and bushfires. It is time this Government prepared itself. It is time it called on all those papers and research documents, all those reports and inquiries that have been gathering dust in its offices and actually acted on the recommendations. There is no more time to waste. The information it needs is out there and the funds should be there as well. It does not need to spend another of your pilfered pennies on a report to nowhere. It needs to start acting; otherwise, it will be preparing itself for another disaster of its own making. 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CANINE COURT COMPANION PROGRAM The Hon. NATALIE WARD (22:01:25): As the Parliamentary Secretary to the Attorney General, often a lot of the work I do reminds me of my first love from my previous life: practise of the law. I practised law for most of my adult life and I have experienced the day-to-day life that many lawyers face. When you spend so much time with a client—listening, guiding and working with them—you think you know them well. You hope to develop a rapport. You have to earn their trust. You are on the same team and you have to work together on a difficult, stressful journey that the client pretty much always wishes they were not on. They are nervous, stressed, worried and conscious of costs. While you can prepare your case, your evidence, your brief and your interrogatory arguments, there are a few things that you cannot prepare them for. Whether your only experience in law is watching courtroom dramas or you are an experienced practitioner, everyone has their own perception of what it is like sitting in a courtroom. I still remember very clearly my first experiences appearing in court on my own as a baby lawyer: my knees shaking, my voice shaking, but my mind absolutely clear on my job and purpose at hand. The Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane: I remember that. The Hon. NATALIE WARD: No, I mean in court, not here. I have seen countless people walk into a courtroom and suddenly freeze up—and that is just the lawyers. As soon as they enter, suddenly everything becomes very real. The stress kicks in and the pressure exacerbates. As a lawyer, that is when you have to step in and guide them. You have to teach them about court etiquette—when to stand, when to sit, when to speak, how to address the bench and, more importantly, when not to speak. As is the case with most issues, this can be made a lot harder when they are under such significant stress. With that picture in mind, I bring to everyone's attention one of our State's significant programs helping in this field. The Canine Court Companion Program provides accredited therapy dogs and volunteer handlers in the publicly accessible areas and domestic violence safe rooms of local courts. The program's ethos puts court users at the centre of policy and service design, in line with the New South Wales Government's commitment to improve customer service across the public sector. The program aims to reduce the stress and anxiety associated with attending court and has shown to be effective for court users and, as an unintended by-product, for court staff and, yes, even us lawyers. The program is currently operational at the local courts in Manly, Gosford, Sutherland, Burwood, Campbelltown, Lismore, Goulburn, Nowra, Orange and Wagga Wagga. Therapy labrador dogs are provided by Guide Dogs NSW/ACT and have been selected for their calm temperament. Personally, I think English pointers and beagles should be considered but I am biased. Volunteer canine handlers accompany the therapy dogs to courthouses. The handlers have undergone training provided by Guide Dogs NSW/ACT and the Department of Communities and Justice. Training includes court etiquette and processes and managing vicarious trauma, which many witnesses experience by reliving and giving evidence of their experience. I want to highlight this program and the great work done by the Attorney General, Mark Speakman, SC, MP, who worked in April 2017 in cooperation with Delta Therapy Dogs Australia to trial the Canine Court Companion Program, commencing at Manly Local Court. An informal evaluation of the pilot indicated a 100 per cent positive response rate, showing the pilot was effectively reducing the stress and anxiety of court users without impacting the general functions of the court. A competitive tender process was undertaken in early 2018 to roll out the program more widely. Guide Dogs NSW/ACT was successful in that tender. Volunteers bring their highly trained therapy dogs to the courts, helping support and reduce the stress and anxiety of victims, witnesses and other court users. They play a particularly important role in court safe rooms to help create a non-threatening environment for children, vulnerable witnesses, and victims of domestic and family violence. In August 2019 it was announced that the program would be extended for an additional 12 months in these 10 locations. The Canine Court Companion Program has received overwhelming support. Victims of crime, lawyers and the police will be among those who continue to enjoy the benefits of pet therapy. An independent outcomes evaluation has been conducted by Monash University and a final report will follow in due course. I know how much research has been done to show how dogs can reduce stress for victims. I have seen it myself and I commend this initiative by our Government and thank the Attorney General, Mark Speakman, for making it possible. CHINESE COMMUNITY The Hon. SHAOQUETT MOSELMANE (22:06:15): This year marks the Lunar New Year of the Metal Rat. Rats tend to be reliable and live a stable life. To all those celebrating the Lunar New Year of the Rat, I wish you good health, happiness and prosperity in the year ahead. The Lunar New Year is a time to come together with family and friends to enjoy each other's company and exchange well wishes for a successful and prosperous New Tuesday, 25 February 2020 Legislative Council Page 4274

Year. It is an important celebration for Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese communities in New South Wales. It is also an opportunity for the wider Australian community to celebrate the significant contribution they have made to our multicultural nation. This year I joined the Leader of the Opposition, Jodi McKay, and other parliamentary colleagues in Chinatown to wish local businesses every success. I also attended a number of wonderful celebrations hosted by the Consulate-General of China and the Australian Council of Chinese Organisations as well the Chinese Australian Services Society thanksgiving luncheon, acknowledging the contribution that volunteers make to their community. I wish them—all of them—a happy Chinese Lunar New Year. Sadly, the start of this new year has been marred by the devastating bushfires as well as by the spread of the coronavirus panic. At a time when we needed to come together as a community and be united, we have seen the Chinese community ostracised and subjected to outright racism and stereotyping, with the spread of false information and public scares hurting communities and businesses alike. Today, at the invitation of Dr Ven Tan, I made a brief attendance at a luncheon at the Golden Century Seafood Restaurant to show support to local businesses adversely affected by the outbreak of novel coronavirus in China. Panic around the virus has been unfairly impacting on Chinese and Asian Australian communities. Many businesses have reported real drops in business due to public fears over the virus while some shops have had to close. Tonight I take this opportunity to acknowledge their pain and the hurt suffered by our Australian Chinese community who have become victims of Sinophobic rhetoric and attacks perpetuated by some in our mainstream media. Sadly, some mainstream media outlets openly played the race card, compounding the great distress suffered by many in our Chinese community. The attacks were shameless as they portrayed the virus as "China virus" or "Chinese virus", with statements like "Chinese Kids stay home." For many Australians, particularly those of Chinese heritage, this was yet another phase in the relentless political and ideologically driven race-based attacks on them by right-wing media institutions. To them, it was the White Australia fear of the "Yellow Peril" resurfacing. People were angered by the way some in our mainstream media had cultured and spread racial virus amongst our multicultural communities. The racialisation of the virus preyed upon the weaknesses of the ignorant and the ill-informed, and compounded the deep-seated feeling of indignation. It was clear that the racialisation of the virus was part of an ongoing narrative. It was as if the coronavirus was inherently part of the Chinese DNA. The Daily Telegraph's apology was tokenistic, but it somehow acknowledged the pain and vindicated the people who gathered the will to stand up and fight back against racism and bigotry in our country. Through social media, people were told to distance themselves from the Chinese people and anything associated with Chinese products, Chinese manufacturing and all Chinese-made goods as they were all contaminated. We must all condemn the anti-China hysteria, scapegoating and victim blaming that has tarnished our reputation as an accepting, multicultural nation. We must do everything possible to stop the despicable racism perpetrated against our fellow Australians. There is absolutely no place and no excuse for racism, discrimination and prejudice in Australia. I urge everyone to follow factual health information and advice from trusted sources and show support and unity with our Chinese Australian communities as we work together to combat racism and the health dangers associated with misinformation. Once again, I wish everyone good health, happiness and prosperity in the year ahead. The ACTING PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The question is that this House do now adjourn. Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at 22:11 until Wednesday 26 February 2020 at 11:00.