• INTERVIEW • THE LONG WALK of

When Alanis left Odanak to live with by Maurie Alioff and her parents in Trois-Rivieres, life be­ Susan Schouten Levine came very different. She was now the only Indian child in the entire town, un­ lanis Obomsawin has been told that able to speak French fluently, and she when she was six months old, she had to "surVive a lot of things that are not Awas afI:licted by a mysterious dis­ so nice to think about," No matter which ease that almost killed her. The night route she took home from school, she everyone thought she would die, she lay was systematically beaten up by her in bed falling into a deep coma. The doc­ schoolmates. Alanis has never forgotten tor had said that she wasn't to be moved Mlle. Reault, the teacher who twisted or touched. Everyone.stood around her, her long crimson fingernails into her watching helplessly and waiting. arm and called her a ·'sauvagesse." Alanis Suddenly, the door swung open, and a also had to suffer through Canadian his­ great aunt, a very old woman, came in, tory classes, which always seemed to be wrapped up the baby in a big blanket, about martyred priests being tortured to and carried her off to a little shack on the death by Indians. It wasn't until her reserve. Because of their respect for the father died, when she was 12, that she old woman's age, the other relatives, al­ began to rebel against the prejudice and though upset, said nothing. "She kept me racism. "As I grew older," she says, "I was for six months," says Obomsawin "No­ always made to feel that I should be sell­ body knows what she did to me, but I ing myself, or that I should be someone's survived." maid, but I always found a way to,fight Obomsawin's mother had brought her back." to Odanak, the Abenaki reserve north­ Ironically, in the eyes of the federal east of Montreal, just before the illness government, Alanis was not officially an struck. She was raised in the house of her Indian, and eventually, she fully realized mother's sister, Jesse Benedict, and her what it meant to be'non-registered'. As husband Levi, who had six children of she points out, "I never had any rights. their own. As a child, Alanis had no real But you see, when you're young, you sense of the world outside the village don't grasp that. 1 never knew that story that sits just above the St. Francis river - - registered or not registered - all 1 even the village on the opposite shore knew was that 1 was an Indian, and that barely existed. The most vivid memory was that. It's much later that it all came she has of Odanak is the relationship she out, and 1 realized the racism and pre­ had with two old people on the reserve. judice that can exist even amongst your One of Alanis's songs begins, "When I own people. That's probably the hardest was very young, I had two friends - my thing to live through - to feel those kinds old aunt Alanis, and my mother's cousin of things." Theophile Panadis. Myoid aunt Alanis, At the age of 22, Alanis left Trois­ she was beautiful. She made baskets, and Rivieres for a two-week trip to Florida she loved me. Theo would tell me the ~ that turned into two years of taking care Abenaki history." When Alanis talks about her child­ of children, modelling bathing suits, and ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii• ' ii' ~ a learning to speak English. After she hood, her sensuous memory conjures up moved to Montreal in the late '50s, she all the Sights, sounds, and smells that she became part ofa circle of writers, photo- experienced. "In those days," she says, graphers, and artists that included "everybody made baskets and canoes. Leonard Cohen, Robert Herschorn, Vit­ They worked with the wood from many trees - especially the ash, spruce, birch, ALAN I S torio, Derek May, John Max, and many and pine - and sweetgrass was an im­ others. (Ask Alanis if she was the inspira- portant part of everyone's daily life. tion for Catherine Tekawitha, the mythic There wasn't one house you could go to heroine of'Cohen's Beautiful Losers, that didn't have those smells. I realized and she might laugh, "Ask Leonard.") that much later in my life because I , About that circle, she says, "We were missed it so much." She also misses the O B0 MSAWI . N friends. They were very cultured people, sight of people sitting in straight-backed and 1 learned a lot from them, their way chairs, braiding the sweetgrass and of being. Lots of good times. Lots of sing­ weaving the baskets. Everywhere you ing." hens were laying eggs ~ Everybody told looked were brilliantly colored Alanis has never, throughout her life, Gradually, she began to emerge as a her not to do it, that she would upset the ashwood splints, curling like ribbons on and despite many attempts to force her, singer (first professional engagement: chickens and make them jittery. But strings overhead. eaten meat. "Animals," she says "have Town Hall in New York City) and a Alanis swears that no matter how close When she was small, Alanis liked to histories just like us. They know their storyteller, who was specially interested she got to the hens to hear their cooing squeeze into the chicken coop while the friends, and they know their enemies." in giving young children a concrete and and clucking sounds, they remained per­ When you watch the films she's made, meaningful sense of her people. In 1965, fectly calm. Today, she might suddenly you notice how often images of animals, a CBC Telescope program about Alanis Susan Levine is a film maker who lives lower her voice, do an imitation of the birds, and fish appear in them - images caught the eye of Wolf Koenig and Bob in Ottawa. Maurie Alioff teaches film sounds, and break into a hoarse laugh be­ like the salmon that flash, or pulsate in Verrall, two NFB producers who invited and literature at Vanier College in cause performing the hen iffiitation slow motion, across the screen in Inci­ her to consult on several projects. Montreal and writes screenplays. makes her cough. dent at RestigouChe, At the Board, she began making her

10lCinema Canada "':June 1987 • INTERVIEW •

own films, and she devised multimedia do or say," says Alanis without any trace educational kits that are ingenious of disappointment. "She has things of her microcosms of the Man0wan and own that I have to respect, and it will be L'Ilawat tribes. She has also appeared in later, perhaps only when I'm dead, that many other people's films, among them, Kisos is going say, 'Oh, my God, my Kathleen Shannon's Our Dear Sisters mother was like this.' I know that in ad­ and Gordon Sheppard's Eliza's Horo vance, and that's her time, that's her life." scope. All these years, she has continued The Alanis is the kind of person who seems her singing career, appeared frequently totally in possession of herself. Every on Sesame Street, and in 1983, she was movement she makes - whether she's awarded the Order of Canada for her threading film on a Steenbeck or spend­ contribution to native rights. Films ing hours cooking one of her spicy, sen­ Alanis Obomsawin lives with her 17- suous meals - is gracious and elegant. year-old daughter, Kisos, in downtown You can sometimes feel daunted by the Montreal. The 19th-century townhouse strength of her presence, or by an appar­ they share is filled with paintings, photo­ ent aloofness, but a moment later, you graphs, pastels, and lace. The kitchen, are bathing in her warmth and humor. which is the focal point of the house, She's entirely in touch with Montreal makes you feel you're in the country and the rest of the world outside with its wood-burning stove and long re­ Odanak, but that tiny village and the fectory table. When Kisos was a small Abenaki tribe (the word lJIeans 'people or Alanis Obomsawin, film is what rites of adolescent girls to a portrait of a child, Alanis, in the tradition of her of sunrise') are the continual sources of she calls a "bridge," or a "place" 108-year-old Cree woman called Agatha people, took her daughter everywhere - all her strength. "I have a drive," she tells Fwhere native people can talk to each Marie Goodine. We watch women who even to work. "Our people have always you, "from every bit of memory I have other, and to us, about their losses, their are still in touch with ways of life that re­ worked and had their children with from my childhood." memories of injustice, their desire to volve around the land and water - rock­ them," Alanis says. "Here, people make a At this point in what Alanis would call share what is good about their way of ing their babies, ice-fishing, gathering separation, but I never allowed it. I guess the "long walk" that is her life, she feels life, and with that sharing, become wild rice, hooking carpets and carving I was the scandal of the Film Board, be­ "I have come to a time now - it was strong. We have a sense of filmmaker images out of stone. Alanis also shows us cause I seemed to have raised Kisos very,very hard at the beginning - that I who is a listener and a compassionate the experiences of the first native there, but I don't think it damaged any­ have developed my own way of standing observer, like John Grierson, Alanis be­ woman who worked at Indian Affairs, a body; on the contrary, I think it was good on my two feet no matter where I am, lieves that film must attempt to trans­ young student at Harvard, and women for them." and being part of our culture, and carry­ form people, even to the point of causing who have been badly hurt by city life. Today, the Film Board provides day ing it with me. I think I bring it to other social reform. One woman on Winnipeg's skid row care, and Kisos is a pretty and lively teen­ people who meet me; I bring them - In a calm, measured tone (using pre­ tells us that eventually a prison cell be­ age girl, who says she's into being 'alter­ something." cise narration she always writes and comes so much a home, she feels sad native ' and dreams about travelling to speaks herself), Alanis constructs clear when she leaves it. Spain and the Fiji Islands. She has little filmic statements. Although style and Near the end of Mother of Many interest in her mother's work, or her form are secondary to her, the films are Children, Agatha Marie Goodine takes a causes. "She ignores a lot of the things I filled with flashes of visual poetry. One walk down a tree-lined country path. also becomes aware of certain patterns­ The old woman, wearing a blue print the consistent sense of paintings and dress, and encircled by an obviously af­ drawings; images of nature, and the fectionate group of boys and girls, moves music that is woven into the texture of determinedly through the warm sum­ her films. mer air, talking about Cree beliefs, tel­ Christmas at Moose Factory (1971), ling stories, and cracking jokes about her first film, introduces us to a remote how ridiculous it is to be crippled by Cree village on James Bay. Not only is age. From time to time, she rocks her this one of the first Canadian fllms to torso and gestures with her arms in a portray native life through the eyes ofIn­ way that startles you with the sudden dians, the entire film tells us about life in feeling you're seeing a viSion, a full­ Moose Factory through the drawings bodied apparition from the past. You and paintings of its children. The know that as fast as the film you're artwork springs magically to life because watching is unreeling, the particular ex­ as we're looking at houses and clothes­ preSSions on that creviced face, the lines, portraits offamilies, or fairy tale im­ rhythms of that voice, the mysteriously ages of a black bear in a luminous blue expressive movements of those arms, forest, and an "Indian angel," we hear the that kind of being in such a pure form, village's dogs, the wind rushing through are becoming memories. "Life was so the pines, and the voices of Moose Fac­ beautiful then," the old woman says to tory's children on the film 's soundtrack. the children, and to the film's audience, The kids talk about ordinary details of ''we thought it would go on forever." everyday life; they tell a story about Amisk ( 1977) shows the viewer the being frightened by a bear; they fantasize richness and variety ofIndian music and about Christmas. The film is full of sur­ dance. In the '70s, the Cree way oflife in prising juxtapositions of color - deep James Bay was being threatened by the blues, purples, and bursts of red - and Quebec government's mammoth hydro­ we see nothing but the drawings until electric project. Reacting to the threat, the end, when a montage of stills shows Alanis and some other people organized us the children we've been hearing, a festival to give support to the people of Moose Factory cuts through many of James Bay. For a weeK, performers from the stereotypes of native people, many different tribes in both Canada and suggesting how they are both like white the U.S. - including Inuit people, Metis, people and somehow different. SiOUX, Ojibway and Dogrib - sang and Mother of Many Children ( 1977) danced in halls and clubs all over Mont­ travels across the country, introducing real. The climactic event of the festival us to girls and women from many differ­ was a concert in Place des Arts, which ent tribes. It takes us from the puberty Amisk documents.

June 1987 - Cinema Canada/11 • INTERVIEW •

•

When people, who have little expo­ that re-create moments in his boyhood, sure to native music, see this film for the and quietly horrifying interviews. Over a first time, they are stunned by the excit­ period of 14 years, Richard lived in 28 ingly unfamiliar rhythms and sounds that different fost.er homes and institutions. have been on their doorstep all their In the film, his brother, Charlie, explains lives. Hoop dancers spin across the how one of the foster parents made a stage; the Dogrib churn to the beat of point of ordering Richard to lower his their drums; Alanis herself, dressed in pants every morning for a ritual beating, bright red, sings a lullaby, and Willie during which the man's daughters Dunn gives a passionate performance of would stand around watching. his Buffalo Song. At one point, two Inuit At the end of the film, a harmonica women in parkas stand almost mouth to wails as a crow, the messenger bird, mouth calling to each other in the takes flight. "I think that Richard speaks strange, guttural, intersecting sounds of very well for himself," says Alanis. "No­ a throat song. body has to be told 'It's your fault', or'it's Amisk is not only a concert film. In­ not your fault.' His gesture is strong tercut with the performances is footage. enough. For me, the film is for all people of the Cree people of Mistassini talking concerned with children - any children. about the kind ofloss that provoked the I want people, who look at the film, to making of the film. One man says that he have a different attitude next time they could once get all the meat he, his family, meet what is called a problem child, and and many of his friends needed for the develop some love and some relation­ price of ammunition. The same meat, in ship to the child - instead of alienating a store, would cost $1,000. Once there him. I want even the worst person, who was the land, which was the source of makes problems for children, to go life. Now there is a store. home and change some of his rules and Incident at Restigouche (1984) de­ attitudes." monstrates how a conflict between Poundmaker's Lodge: A Healing people and government can tum into Place (1987) is in the final stages of pro­ grotesque theatre of the absurd. In]une, duction. Near the beginning of the film, 1981, a virtual batallion of 550 Quebec the camera pans from a busy Edmonton Provincial Police (QPP), in full riot re­ expressway to a body lying in a heap of galia, marched into the Micmac reserve rubble under a bridge. Near the end of on the Restigouche River and an­ Poundmaker, the camera climbs nounced, "We are taking over today, and slowly up the walls of a teepee toward we are the bosses now." The announce­ streams of sunlight at the top. In be­ ment was followed by volleys of racist tween these two images, we find out invective, swinging clubs, and a number about a place in the countrySide, not far of arrests. The crime? The Quebec from Edmonton, called Poundmaker's Ministry of Fisheries had come to the Lodge. At the lodge, native people ad­ conclusion that the handful of Micmac dicted to drugs and alcohol get a chance salmon fishermen living on the reserve to release themselves from their de­ had exceeded their quotas. Despite the mons. "You feel so warm when you're insults, the beatings, the fundamental in­ going up," sings Shannon Two Feathers justice of the QPP's preposterous inva­ on the film's soundtrack, "So cold when sion, many of the native people we meet you're coming down." in the film show the good grace of seeing Alanis calls the lodge "a healing place" the painful humor in the situation. A since "to go there is to go home," back young couple smiles wryly as they talk to the love, traditions, and religious about the problems you can have getting ceremonies of the past. Various forms of to your wedding reception when 550 therapy, Alcoholics Anonymous meet­ cops have invaded your village. ings, and physical exercises are avail­ Alanis points out, "The basic argument able, but Poundmaker's Lodge is unique of the film is that Indians have rights, and because elders and medicine men are an you have to respect those rights. They integral part of the process, helping are the owners ofthis country-whether people return to traditions that are anybody wants to admit it or not - and thousands of years old. "They were good there are a lot of people here not paying for the past and are good now. This is their rent." what people have lacked and why the A postscript. Since the completion of lodge works." Restigouche, Lucien Lessard, the In the late '70s, Alanis collaborated Quebec minister of Fisheries at the time with the Council of Ministers of Educa­ of the incident, was arrested for fishing tion, on a series of school telecasts, without a license. He was eventually ac­ called Sounds from Our People. quitted on the basis of his lawyer's argu­ These half-hOllr programs, broadcast on ment that the Quebec fishing law is not the CBC, include "special adaptations" of well enough defined. Amisk, Mother of Many Children. Richard Cardinal: Cry from a Diary Martin Defalco's Cold Journey, Tony of a Metis Child (1986) begins with lyr­ Ianzelo's Cree Ways, and two projects ical shots of flowers and trees and goes Alanis shot for the series: Old Crow and on to tell the heartbreaking story of a Gabriel Goes to the City. She has plans teenage boy who, one day in]une, 1984, to release these works as completed placed a board between two birch trees, films. slung a rope across it, and hanged him­ self. Alanis tells the story through Richard's own words (he kept a painfully articulate diary), docu-drama scenes • •= INTERVIEW •

Cinema Canada· How do you see the will have a life long after the fiImmakers purpose ofyour films? are gone and serve many generations to Alanis Obomsawin: The basic purpose come. I think of such films as Donald is for our people to have a voice. To be Brittain's The Champions, Martin heard is the important thing, no matter Duckworth's Return to Dresden, the what it is that we're talking about - productions of Studio D, and the anima­ whether it has to do with having our tion studios. In Return to Dresden, one The existence recognized, or whether it has of the men who bombed Dresden says to to do with speaking about our values, a woman, whose children were all killed our survival, our beliefs, that we belong in the raids, "We have to create a world to something that is beautiful, that it's in which orders of that kind like fire­ Conversation O.K to be an Indian, to be a native per­ bombing cities are not given any more." son of this country. I don't want to say Martin has made a film that goes beyond that we're better than anyone else, but as the usual feelings about peace and war. good. And that we have a lot to offer this society. But we also have to look at the Cinema Canada' What excites you bad stuff, and what has happened to us, most about filmmaking? and why it's happened. We cannot dQ Alanis Obomsawin: I think the power this without going through the past, and of the medium is certainly very import­ watching ourselves and analyzing our­ ant. I also feel I am constantly learning, selves, because we're carrying a pain and that is very exciting to me. But the that is 400 years old. We don't carry just thing I like best about film is the excite­ our everyday pain. We're carrying the mentof meeting the people. There's a lot pain of our fathers, our mothers, our of beautiful things that happen in making grandfathers, our grandmothers - it's a film - for instance to see, no matter ·part of this land. It's going to take a long what people have gone through, their time for us to become ourselves again. will to live. I think that's the part I find The films are for that purpose. most exciting. It doesn't matter where I go - whether it's our west or up north - Cinema Canada: Many filmmakers when I'm going to a native person, I'm al­ have been drawn to the medium by the ways going home. I would never even work of certain great directors, by stop going to prisons, and skid row, stylistic approaches, or by particular where you find a high percentage of our movements in filmmaking. Who or people. You watch the drinking, the what was your inspiration? people sleeping on the sidewalks, being Alanis Obomsawin: My inspiration abused, and you hear terrible language. came from my own people, from their It's a snake pit. But I cannot divorce my­ urgent need to have a place to speak. For self from them. There was a time in my me, film is just another form, like my life when I was told that's where I should singing. It's the same thing because I sing be. I fought back and fought back. That's about what's happening to us politically, why I understand and love all the people what's happening on the streets, what's down there. They're not separate from happening to the women, what's hap­ me. pening to the children. Cinema Canada: Tantoo Cardinal Cinema Canada· Can you think of a (Rosanne in Anne Wheeler's Loyalties) scene, an image, a moment from a film has said similar things about herself that does what you think film should Alanis Obomsawin: She's really a spe­ do? cial person. And there's lots of people Alanis Obomsawin: I appreciate a lot that somehow have managed to be of films. Once I was looking at Yves strong and do something. I don't mean to Dion's La Sourditude, which is about say that the people who are down there deaf people, and to this day, I have not on the street are not strong. But how forgotten it. In the film, there is a dance much can you take and how long do you in a huge, huge hall, and it's like a silent go on until you finally believe what party. The people are laughing, they're they're telling you: that you're no good, happy, they're drinking. A beautiful girl that your parents are no good, that your is standing on a stage with a record language is no good, that you don't have player behind her. Edith Piaf is singing a culture, that you don't belong. You see La Vie en rose ("Quand il me prends your parents, who are drinking, who are dans ses bras ... "), and the girl is miming in a terrible state. And you look in the - not just the words, but the feelings of mirror, and you don't like what you see, the song. It is the most moving scene. so you end up fighting your own people, You see all those people with their eyes, killing each other. And it took me many, just looking up at this girl, who - with many years before I could understand her signs and her tenderness - is just so that. And today, I understand it - not that beautifuL You watch that, and you really it's less painful. It's very painful to look think about human feelings and human right in the mirror and say "No I'm not communication. It is a marriage of what ugly; my parents are not ugly" - when I real feelings are about, no matter how say ugly, I mean inside, spiritually, your dispossessed you are. It made me feel soul, yourself. '§ good, because this film ~as made at the ~ Board. I think the whole world should Cinema Canada· In many of your '§ see it. Does everyone know how sensi­ films, people are talking very inti­ ~ tive Yves Dion was to make that film? mately about the way they live. How ~ There are many other films made at you do you approach the interviews? a the Board that are documentS, which Alanis Obomsawin: I go to the loca-

June 1987 - Cinema Canada/13 • INTERVIEW •

tions on my own for several weeks, and 1 don't go only once. 1 spend a lot of time with the people, telling them what I'm , trying to do, and asking their advice. We converse and see if we are on the same level, because in my mind, I'm not the only one making the film; it's many people, and they are the most important part of the film. I look up to them. In 99 per cent of the cases, the interviews are very private. They are between me and one particular person. And the reason why we are able to converse that way is because we come from the same place, and there is an automatic understanding. I might ask them to repeat certain things on camera, when the crew arrives, but a lot of things they wouldn't say on cam­ era, or in front of another person, be­ cause it is too difficult. This is why I use a lot of voice-over. I really like that pro­ cess. The feelings and the emotions re­ ally come through even though you don't always see the person's face right on camera. . ~:; ::;'" Cinema Canada· How do you choose ~ the material you're going to shoot f or L-______~======______===~ ______~~~ the voice-over? .Alanis Obomsawin: It depends on dian crew - that's for sure. But of course, Cinema Canada Before you began my own, I was given a bit of money and what's there. I go by the surroundings of there are also Film Board people that I Mother of Many Children, some some equipment. I went and did a lot of the people I'm talking to and what they like to work with. people felt it should be a film about fa­ interviews, but that was only after the do. I make sure I cover myself. mous native women. second raid. 1 wasn't there during the Cinema Canada· What have your 18 Alanis Obomsawin: I myself wanted to raids at all - that material in the film Cinema Canada· Since your first film, years at the Film Board been like for pay homage to women at home, who came from the CBC, L'Aviron (a news­ you've had a tendency to begin a project you? survive, who take care of children - paper in Campbelton), and a freelance by recording sound before you start Alanis Obomsawin: Right now, it is people that you don't really know. I photographer who was there at the time. shooting. very good for me because I get encour­ wanted to show the beginning of life to 1 would have been there for the second Alanis Obomsawin: I come from a cul­ agement from the people at the Board. the end through as many women as I raid, at least, if I had gone when I wanted ture of storytelling, and I'm used to lis­ I've had good feelings in the last few could - in terms of culture, traditions, to. But, you see, that's the problem for tening to people speak. For me, every years. It's wonderful to have that feeling and language. But to get the money was many documentary filmmakers, includ­ human story, every life matters. I'm in­ there's confidence in what you're dOing. a different story. There was going to be ing those at the Board. When there's terested in everyone's life - what Marrin Canell and Bob Verrall were pro­ no film. I have letters saying "Forget it." something important happening, there's they've gone through, how they live, ducers with me on Richard Cardinal Indian Affairs doesn't want to put money no way of getting there fast. 1 wish I had how they feel, how their spirits are. And and Poundmaker's Lodge, and they into it; they don't want a film on women, a budget to cover such events so that 1 don't cease to be excited about that. were very helpful. I did not have to raise and the Film Board wouldn't give me any when something is on, 1 can go im­ And I think the sound of the voice is the money for these films either. It's money to make the film unless I got mediately with a crew. Restigouche very, very important to me. Of course, I much better for my morale and for my money from outside. At one pOint, I gave would have been a very different film if love the image, but the voice is very im­ work ifl don't have to fight so much, find up. Finally, I thought that's crazy; I've I had been able to start shooting when 1 portant. I make sure I record whatever the money, get this and that, get permis­ spent my energy on this, and I'm going wanted to. natural sounds the people hear locally - sion to go somewhere to do the work. All to do it. the bush, the animals, the music, the that can take so much energy, a lot of I got up one morning; I took a train to Cinema Canada· Once the shooting songs. I take particular care of music in hours and a lot of days. There are indi­ Ottawa, and I went from office to office, started, did things get easier? all the films. When I'm on location, I al­ viduals, who have made my life difficult until I came back with money from the Alanis Obomsawin: I had a very hard ways look for the performers, because I at the Board, but they are not the Board. Secretary of State. I started doing one se­ time making that film. My history at the like to hear their music and have their Also, there are a lot of wonderful people, quence, and from there, 1 begged for Board has not been easy; it's been pretty presence in the films. whose names you never see on films. money for the next one, and that's how painful. It's been a long walk. Racism and There's Claude Chevalier in sound, Gud­ it went. But if it hadn't been for all that, prejudice exist there like anywhere else. Cinema Canada· Do native people run Kanz in the lab, Gilles Tremblay in there would be no such film. After the When 1 went to the program committee work on your films in other ways? animation camera, and Jimmy Bell in film was finished, I got a letter from the to get funds to continue the film, 1 told Alanis Obomsawin: All my assistants traffic control. These are people who Secretary of State saying that they had them 1 wanted to interview the Quebec are always natives of the area I fought know their craft and are willing to share never invested their money in a better Minister of Fisheries, and I had more in­ very hard for that from the beginning. their knowledge, and that's what the way in any film up to that time. And the terviews to do back at Restigouche. And Once, we brought a young guy, called Film Board is all about. It's not a school man in charge of Indian Affairs also someone said, "Well, 1 don't think you Louis Echaquan, to Montreal, and we in the sense that you go there, and wrote me a fantastic letter. should interview the whites." 1 could trained him as a professional soundman. they're going to show you how to make have gotten into a big fight right there, He worked on many of my projects - films. I wasn't assisted that way. But I Cinema Canada· You told us that you but 1 chose to say nothirig. And, of thank Go I had him on Mother of Many could go to individual people and ask, heard about the first Quebec Provincial course, I did the interviews that 1wanted Children. With Richard Cardinal, I "Could you show me how to do this?" Police raid on the Restigouche reserve to do, and 1 interviewed Lessard myself had Richard's brother, Charlie, for a Over the years, even if I was in trouble, from broadcasts and friends, and you When 1 came back, we had to go back to large part of the shooting. He could there were always people I could go to. wanted to go into action immediately. the program committee for finishing draw, so we made a storyboard for the What prevented you from doing so? money, and the same member said, shots that re-created Richard's early life. Cinema Canada· When you did have to Alanis Obomsawin: When 1 heard "Well, Alanis, 1 thought we told you not Charlie came with me to most of the lo­ find money for your other films, how what was going on, 1 said, 1 have to get to interview the whites." And then 1 cations before the shoot and talked to did you do it? there. But to get there was a big prob­ jumped on this person. "Now I'm going me about how it was and where things Alanis Obomsawin: The hard way: lem, because there was no money at the to tell you how 1 feel," I said. "I know you happened. I would love to have an In- standing up in a canoe. Board. Finally, when I was ready to go on told me that,~ut you or nobody is going

14/Cinema Canada - June 1987 • INTERVIEW •

to tell me who I'm going to interview, or Will you be doing more in the future? not interview. And if you feel that I, as a Alanis Obomsawin: I love drama but I Native person, cannot interview white don't think I would ever march' away people, we'll go through everything the from documentaries, because that is the Film Board has done with Native people, only place that people have a voice - a and see who interviewed them. And I'll real voice, the real people. It doesn't tell you something else, not you, nor any matter what background you come other person could have faced the Minis­ from. But I think it is very important for ter the way I did. You've got a long walk people to have a voice - directly, not to do before you can do that." only through drama or reenactment, which also has its value. I think Cinema Canada: Your interoiew in Re­ documentaries must survive, and I think stigouche with Lessard, the m inister of they will. I have no doubts in my mind. Fisheries, is one of the strongest we've ever seen in documentary. The audi­ Cinema Canada' Some people think ence really feels y our anger. that the Film Board, f or many years Alanis Obomsawin: Anger? I was furi­ now, has been abandoning documen­ ous. Anger is too polite. But I admire him tary and self-destructing. for having the guts to come here from Alanis Obomsawin: Yes, some people the Cote Nord when I said I wanted to have said that. A lot of people say things interview him on the subject, and I re­ when they don't really know what spect him. Whatever it was that he did they're talking about. Many people out­ that appalled me, he faced it. Of course, side say things about the Board that are I fought with him the whole time. I stuck such lies. Some independent producers to my guns, and he stuck to his, but I ad­ and filmmakers, who are criticizing the mire somebody like that. I was so mad at Board, are sucking hundreds of him. I was in Restigouche the time that thousands of dollars out of it at the very he finally came to speak to the people same time. It is pretty dishonest, I think. after the second raid. The things he said And all those people that are now on were so totally racist. And during the their own, and doing well - how many raids Lessard ordered, the cops shouted of them have been trained at the Board? at the Micmac, "Maudit sauvage, you A lot. fucking Indian, you fucking savage." Someone said to me the other day that When you hear that, you ask, "Who are you have to give Fran~ois Macerola cre­ the real savages?" I'm not saying that the dit for all the time he spends in Ottawa Micmac were angels. But you know, really talking to all the politicians and with 550 pOlicemen there, I think they trying to save the Board. That is some­ behaved in a way that was more than dig­ thing to look up to. nified. And to have the children watch that! It' not something that people are Cinema Canada· What would you do if going to forget. you were head of the Film Board? Alanis Obomsawin: I would do my Cinema Canada: After the various rounds. I would go into the cutting problf!1YlS you encountered making Re­ rooms; I would speak to producers, and stigouche, what was the final reaction I would speak to filmmakers. And if to it at the Film Board? somebody has a problem, I would go to The Alanis Obomsawin: Toward the end, their place of work. I think that would Peter Katadotis, director of English pro­ make a big change and create an atmos­ dUction, saw how far I had gone, and he phere of goodwill. People would talk was very excited. At the end, he really and argue things out. And I would tell my Dream' liked the film , and he told me so. problems to the filmmakers, the pres­ sures that are on me, and the things that are impossible. I would keep them in­ Cinema Canada' W7.ry is it that, except for the educational programs that were formed. Then we could fight for certain broadcast on the eBc, none of your things together. films have been shown on the network? I think that the head ofthe Film Board Alanis Obomsawin: I cannot speak for has no real power. Thepower lies in the the CBC. I could say it's prejudice, it's ra­ films that come out of the Board. Despite cism, or it is because of the language, be­ the demoralization of the filmmakers Alanis's dream world has always been a cause I don't want him to grab me. There cause people have an accent, because it's over the past few years, people kept on refuge and a vital part of her life. is somebody inside that can grab me too working and made an unbelievable all Native people, because the CBC did - a terrible situation. And then he gives number of good films. Also, the number not do the film themselves, or maybe be­ t is so beautiful this horse, and the col­ me a bouquet of flowers. The flowers of co-productions and the assistance to cause a Native person did them? It could our of the green is not like any green that he gives me are very tiny, but the be any of those things, and it could be outside filmmakers to finish their films is II know in this lifetime. It's so special. colours are very much like the colours of very high. I would certainly speak up, none of them, or it could be all of them. The horse doesn't look exactly . like a the splints my people used to weave into and do my best to make people feel good I don't know. And I don't really care. I'm horse that we know in this life. It has a baskets. Very strong colors - many, about what they're doing. The Board is going to continue making films. If any of different look. The horse is constantly many of them. Some real red. Good red. the voice of the country - people some­ them ever appear on the eBC, I'll be following me to the point that I get very Purple, yellow, navy blue, so many col­ times forget this. If they were to lose it, grateful, but I'm not going to change my tired of him, and he grabs me, and he ours that I don't even see anymore, and I wonder who would nourish the public way of making films. The films are in talks. I am always running away from him new colours that you don't regularly see as the Film Board has all these years. constant use by Native people, for until I make a deal with him that if he in a lifetime. And then we walk down the They make films that could not be made schools, universities, and people all over stops running after me and grabbing me, road, and the sun is shining just like gold anywhere else. Who would allow the the world, who want to find out about I will be his friend and come to visit him. following us. There's a very good feeling us. people to tell their stories? He says, "Yes, but how willI know?" And between the horse and me. I say, ''You will know by the way I touch Cinema Canada: In Richard Cardinal, • you." Finally, when we agree, I come out • you use docu-dramafor the first time. . of the house that I am locked into, be-

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