Wednesday Volume 513 7 July 2010 No. 28

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 7 July 2010

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visit Lahore in January, and I will carefully consider House of Commons what he has said and see whether additional action is required. Wednesday 7 July 2010 Aid Expenditure (Transparency)

The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock 2. Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): What steps he is taking to ensure transparency of his PRAYERS Department’s expenditure on aid. [6262] The Secretary of State for International Development [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] (Mr Andrew Mitchell): I launched the aid transparency guarantee on 3 June, which will ensure that UK and developing country citizens have full information about Oral Answers to Questions British aid. Nadhim Zahawi: I am sure my right hon. Friend is aware of recent surveys showing that, in these difficult times, public support for international aid is waning. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Does he agree that if we are to win the argument for his Department’s budget in the court of public opinion, we have to ensure that the transparency agenda is linked to The Secretary of State was asked— achieving the goals of the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Office? Pakistan Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes a good point, 1. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): What aid his and it is always important to underline that there is Department has provided for economic development strong cross-party commitment to this important budget and good governance in Pakistan in the last 12 months; partly for moral reasons, but also because it is very and if he will make a statement. [6261] much in our national self-interest. My hon. Friend will have heard the words of the Foreign Secretary and The Secretary of State for International Development myself about the importance of wiring more closely (Mr Andrew Mitchell): In the last 12 months, my together defence, diplomacy and development, and he Department has provided aid to Pakistan to help to put has my assurance that we will continue to do that with more children into school, improve macro-economic great care. stability and support the efficient and effective delivery Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): In of basic services. last Thursday’s debate, the Secretary of State was transparent enough to admit that he did not yet know Andrew Stephenson: I thank my right hon. Friend for how the extra £200 million for Afghanistan announced that answer. Oxfam has said that 1 million Pakistanis by the Prime Minister will be spent. Given the question fleeing from fighting remain in overcrowded camps and asked by the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim depend on emergency relief to survive. What is being Zahawi) and the increasing speculation that DFID money done to help internally displaced persons and refugees in Afghanistan will be spent on things over which the in Pakistan? Secretary of State’s Department has no control, can he tell the House whether the Foreign Secretary—or, indeed, Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend is right to identify that the Defence Secretary—has made any suggestions to particular problem in Pakistan, and it was one of the him as to how that £200 million should be spent? problems I specifically looked at when I was in Pakistan some three weeks ago. My hon. Friend will know from Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman will understand his own very close relationship with members of the that a Government who are properly co-ordinated and Pakistani diaspora in Britain that, as the Oxfam report working together will discuss all these matters to make makes clear, extensive work is being done in all the sure that, as I have said, we wire together in the best affected regions of Pakistan, but we are looking at our possible interests defence, diplomacy and development. whole programme to see whether there is anything more However, as the hon. Gentleman is well aware, as he has we can do. been a junior DFID Minister, the OECD Development Assistance Committee rules are what pertain in the Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Does spending of money on development, and the coalition the Secretary of State agree that, although the aid for Government have confirmed what his Government said: Pakistan is welcome, the Pakistani authorities must those rules will persist. realise that the appalling murder, persecution and torture of the Ahmadiyya Muslims in Lahore, with the complicity Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): I welcome my right of the authorities, must cease? hon. Friend’s initiative in setting up a more effective watchdog for transparency and accountability and to Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman is a Birmingham publish what DFID funds in more detail from January. Member of Parliament, as am I, and, like me, he will That will provide a welcome reinforcement of the value have received representations from the diaspora in of our aid. May I also say that the Select Committees Birmingham on that specific point. I had the chance to are very anxious to start their work and anything he can 353 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 354 do to ensure that they are constituted will help to enable DFID offered support to the Government of South the International Development Committee to take evidence Africa for a summit during this World cup, and we have from him next Thursday so we can expand on these received an invitation to that summit this very morning. issues? It will take place this Sunday and we are considering who should attend. Mr Mitchell: I am grateful to the Chair of the International Development Committee for his comments. Luciana Berger: I am grateful to the Minister for his He knows a great deal about these matters. The reply. There have been a great many goals in this World transparency guarantee is enormously important, first cup, but signing up to a road map to deliver education in reassuring British taxpayers by enabling them to see to 72 million children around the world by the next where the money is being spent and that it is being well World cup could be the greatest goal. How will he spent; and secondly, in assisting in the building of civic ensure that the momentum of today’s education campaign society to ensure that people in the countries we are summit is not lost between now and Brazil 2014? trying to help can hold their own political leaders to account. I look forward to discussing next week with Mr O’Brien: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her his Committee these and other matters, especially to do excellent question. She, like all hon. Members across with independent evaluation. the House and particularly Her Majesty’s Government through DFID, is passionate about the need to boost Media High Council (Rwanda) education, particularly for the millions who have yet to receive the benefit of a primary education. There are 3. Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): What funding his few bigger prizes to grasp, and she is right to say that we Department plans to allocate to the media high council need to maintain the momentum of the 1GOAL campaign, in Rwanda in 2011-12. [6263] which we have been very pleased to support. The summit that is about to take place should help to boost that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for momentum and we shall do all we can to help to International Development (Mr Stephen O’Brien): The maintain it. UN-led programme of support to six oversight institutions in Rwanda, including the media high council, comes to Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): Will the an end in this financial year. There are no plans for Minister join me in congratulating the pupils and staff further DFID support. of Eaton Mill primary school in my constituency, who, like those in many schools up and down the country, Mary Creagh: I thank the Minister for that reply, and have made an enormous effort to raise awareness of the I am relieved to hear that we will not be funding the 1GOAL project and the aims of improving education media high council given that it has recently suspended throughout Africa? Rwanda’s two leading independent newspapers, Umuseso and Umuvugizi, and given that a leading Rwandan journalist, Jean-Léonard Rugambage, was murdered in Mr O’Brien: I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in Rwanda in June. Will the Minister make urgent congratulating the school in his constituency that has so representations, through his Department, to the Rwandan eagerly taken part in this campaign. About 8,000 schools authorities and make sure that we fund things that in the United Kingdom have asked for supporter packs promote freedom of speech, particularly in the run-up from the 1GOAL campaign, so it has had a real impact. to the elections? There have also been lesson plans and other activities for schoolchildren and I dare say that many Members Mr O’Brien: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for across the House have had similar experiences to my highlighting these issues. I assure her that when I visited hon. Friend. That is a measure of the impact and Rwanda between 15 and 17 June I raised these very success of the campaign to date. matters at all levels, including the very highest levels, in the various meetings I had. It is important that as part Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire of the general support that DFID gives to help the South) (Lab): I welcome the Minister’s support for the Rwandan people, we press for the opening up of political 1GOAL summit, and I hope that he or one of his space and that we make sure that pertains up to the ministerial colleagues will accept the invitation that has election. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State been extended to the ministerial team. The Secretary of will take the opportunity, later this week in a meeting State has repeatedly told the House in recent weeks that with the Rwandan high commissioner, to press the he is focused on outcomes, so will the Minister tell me issues that the hon. Lady has rightly identified. what steps, if any, he will take in the coming weeks and months to help to finance the removal of school fees, 1GOAL Summit for how many children and in which countries?

4.. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Mr O’Brien: As part of the broad attempt to ensure What support his Department has provided to the that the millennium development goals are met, we are 1GOAL Education for All summit on 7 July 2010 in keen to do everything we can to boost access to education. South Africa. [6264] What matters is what works, and we need to push very hard in a number of countries through programmes to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for ensure if we can that user fees are removed. In some International Development (Mr Stephen O’Brien): DFID areas vouchers could be used, but the main thing is to has given the 1GOAL campaign £804,800 so far and focus on what works and we are certainly focused on will give a further £195,200 this financial year. In addition, that. 355 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 356

Mr Alexander: I note the lack of detail in the Minister’s The Minister of State, Department for International response and that he mentions vouchers. Does he still Development (Mr Alan Duncan): DFID does not provide intend to implement his plans for voucher schemes, direct financial assistance to the Government of Columbia. which were described by the director of UNESCO’s We provide aid primarily through multilateral organisations, global monitoring report on education as including the European Commission and the World “using vulnerable people to advance an ideologically loaded, Bank. In addition, DFID supports a number of projects market-based vision for education, which would exclude millions through non-governmental organisations to support of kids from school”? human rights and poverty reduction. We are, of course, reviewing our programme and Colombia will be part of Mr O’Brien: I am only interested in what works, and that. of course the precise detail will come out of the bilateral aid review that we are undertaking, of which the right Jim Sheridan: I thank the Minister for that response. hon. Gentleman is aware. Of course we will be happy to Will he assure the House that any direct or indirect aid try to ensure that we learn the lessons of the experience is channelled through humanitarian groups such as the for which he was responsible as regards the use of International Red Cross? He is aware that Columbia is vouchers, particularly in relation to maternal health in an extremely dangerous place to be for those who south-east Asia. oppose the regime and, just recently, President-elect Caribbean Countries Santos ordered his troops to dress up in International Red Cross uniforms to carry out illegal activities. I am 5. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): If he will sure that the International Red Cross would welcome conduct a review of the effectiveness of his the opportunity to meet the Minister to talk through Department’s programmes in Caribbean countries. this issue. [6265] Mr Duncan: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for The Minister of State, Department for International raising this point because it is extremely important. My Development (Mr Alan Duncan): Yes, we will. My right right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will meet the hon. Friend the Secretary of State has commissioned a head of the International Red Cross next week and this review of DFID’s bilateral aid programme to ensure we will be a significant matter on the agenda for that target UK aid where it is needed most and where it will meeting. make the most impact. The Caribbean programme will be included in that review. Aid Expenditure (Legislation)

Julian Smith: Much of the Caribbean is very poor 7. Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): Whether he plans and it is currently being carved up by countries such as to bring forward legislative proposals in this Session of Taiwan, China and Venezuela. May I urge my right Parliament to ensure that 0.7% of gross national hon. Friend to recall the historical Commonwealth income is spent on aid. [6267] links and huge good will towards Britain in that region as he develops his policy in this area? The Secretary of State for International Development (Mr Andrew Mitchell): The Government are fully committed Mr Duncan: We do indeed have strong historical links to our pledge to spend 0.7% of national income on aid with the Caribbean. This Government, rather unlike from 2013, as defined by the rules of the OECD our predecessors, very much value our links with the Development Assistance Committee, and to enshrine Commonwealth and fully recognise our responsibilities that commitment in law. We are looking into the best to the overseas territories, including those in the Caribbean. way to proceed and will inform the House when a We give support especially to combat crime and insecurity decision has been taken. as well as the effects of climate change and we stand ready to help in the event of any natural disaster. Albert Owen: I am grateful to the Secretary of State Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In relation to and I share his view that our aid commitment is both a international development and the money that goes to moral imperative and in the UK national interest. Will the Caribbean countries, illegal trade in children from he be more specific, however? The legislation that he is Haiti to the Dominican Republic has taken place and talking about will not cost the Chancellor a lot of has been very apparent in the news in the last while. Can money, so it will be easy to bring forward very quickly. we use our influence to ensure that the money available Is he not a little worried that his Back Benchers might through international development goes to stop that not be with him 100% as many of them are uncomfortable trade? ring-fencing his Department’s money? Mr Duncan: That is exactly part of our reforms. We Mr Mitchell: I do not know of any Back Bencher take these issues extremely seriously and they will be a who is not a strong supporter of this law. I share with very important part of the priorities we allocate when the hon. Gentleman a frustration about the length of we spend our aid in such countries. time it is taking to bring forward the legislation, but he will have seen the wise words of the Select Committee Colombia Chair in the debate last week when he made it clear that it would be sensible to look carefully at the precise 6. Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) terms of the law. There is some gentle disagreement (Lab): What aid his Department is planning to provide among members of the development community and it to Colombia in 2010-11; and if he will make a is obviously right for us to consider all these matters statement. [6266] before proceeding. 357 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 358

Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The Secretary of State Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): I know will recognise the concern about recent newspaper reports that my right hon. Friend is aware of the recent UN of the amount of his Department’s budget that was report on the lack of progress on some MDGs that cites spent on trade unions in this country and other politically unmet commitments, inadequate resources and a lack correct causes. Given also the money that goes to China of focus and accountability. As he is so interested in this and India and other money wasted by the EU, does he subject, what further lead can he give at the New York not accept that all that taken together undermines the summit later this year so that we make better progress? case for the 0.7% requirement, particularly in this age of austerity? Mr Mitchell: I had the opportunity to speak at the UN last week, specifically on the importance of injecting Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes an important real vigour and energy into trying to ensure that we point about value for money and the effectiveness of have a proper road map for progress in the last five British aid. That is why we have set up our bilateral years of the MDGs. [Interruption.] They have produced review of every place where Britain is spending this a real opportunity to reduce poverty and hunger around important budget, so that we can be sure, as I said the world, and I am certain that the extensive work that earlier, that for every £1 of hard-pressed taxpayers’ will be done in the run-up to September will be effective money, we are really getting 100p of value. He specifically in achieving that. [Interruption.] mentions China. He will know that, on the day that the Government took office, we announced that we would stop all aid to China. The bilateral review is of course Mr Speaker: Order. Far too many private conversations looking at India. are taking place in the Chamber. It is very discourteous both to the Member asking the question and to the On trade unions, I would make two points. First, Minister, however strong a voice he or she may have, trade unions spend overseas money well on building the answering the question. We need a bit of order. capacity of societies to hold their leaders and politicians to account. What is wrong, in my view, is funding development awareness. Sadly, the former Secretary of Tackling Climate Change State felt it was right to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of British aid and development money on supporting Brazilian dance groups— 9. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): Whether his Department plans to provide funding for tackling Mr Speaker: Order. We are grateful to the Secretary climate change other than by means of official of State, but we do not need any more; the answer is development assistance from 2013. [6269] simply too long. The Secretary of State for International Development Millennium Development Goals Summit (Mr Andrew Mitchell): Decisions on UK international climate change finance will be determined through the 8. Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven comprehensive spending review. and Lesmahagow) (Lab): What objectives he has set for the forthcoming UN millennium development goals Julie Hilling: I find that answer somewhat difficult at summit in New York. [6268] the moment. Clearly, we need to know what will happen in terms of any such division: will there be separate The Secretary of State for International Development funding for climate change, or will all the money come (Mr Andrew Mitchell): The Government aim to reach from the international aid budget? international agreement on an action agenda to achieve the MDGs by 2015. That will require developed and Mr Mitchell: The hon. Lady will know that the fast developing countries to make results-based policy and start funding for climate change, which will come from financial commitments, including on the most off-track the development budget—something that was confirmed MDGs, such as those on maternal and child health. by the previous Government when they were in office— takes up to 2012, but I hope she will understand that Mr McCann: We know that the Prime Minister will long-term decisions on climate change funding will be unable to attend the UN MDG summit in New York need to come from the comprehensive spending review, because of his impending paternity leave. I congratulate and that work is happening at the moment. him on taking advantage of that family friendly policy, championed by trade unions and many Opposition Members. Now that the Deputy Prime Minister will Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): take over those duties in New York, how many times What account will the Minister take of the increasingly has the Secretary of State personally discussed the emerging conflict of interest and information on climate objectives for the forthcoming summit in New York change as he develops the development goals? with him? Mr Mitchell: I am not sure that I recognise the hon. Mr Mitchell: I have discussed the matter frequently Gentleman’s point about disagreements on the basic with the Deputy Prime Minister. Indeed, shortly after science. I think there is agreement on the basic science, this Question Time, I will hold a meeting with him and an authoritative Dutch report published this morning specifically on that. The country is fortunate that the underlines that very point. I would be happy to engage Deputy Prime Minister, with his deep knowledge of with the hon. Gentleman on what those doubts are, these matters, will go the MDG summit. perhaps by letter. 359 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 360

Funding Decisions of the wash-up in the last Parliament, and so enjoyed cross-party agreement. The Act has been in place for 10. Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): only a month, and we will examine its effectiveness in What mechanism is used by his Department to decide the hope that it can be shown to work and can be what funding to provide to projects. [6270] renewed in the future.

The Secretary of State for International Development Poverty and Hunger Eradication (Mr Andrew Mitchell): All project proposals are developed within agreed strategies, discussed with relevant partners, 12. Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): What and subject to careful appraisal. We are reviewing all his most recent assessment is of the effectiveness of his major spending areas to ensure that they represent Department’s contribution to the achievement of the value for money. millennium development goal on the eradication of extreme poverty and hunger. [6272] Penny Mordaunt: In the case of countries in receipt of UK aid that also have considerable wealth and are The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for pursuing an aggressive economic growth strategy, such International Development (Mr Stephen O’Brien): While as India, what mechanisms will also be in place to globally MDG 1 is the most on-track MDG, we recognise encourage and support them to ensure that they sort that in Africa and some parts of Asia it is still well off out their social problems in an equally aggressive manner? track. DFID is fully committed to meeting the target. For example, in Ethiopia we are helping 7.5 million Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes an important people to access more and better quality food, and in point that is at the heart of the bilateral review of Bangladesh we are providing 1 million people with British aid spending, which we are conducting at the agricultural services, helping to increase incomes by moment. She specifically mentions India, but India is 50%. different from China in that an Indian’s average income is only a third that of a Chinese. India has more poor Richard Ottaway: Is not the most effective way of people than the whole of sub-Saharan Africa, and, achieving those millennium development goals to stabilise through the Commonwealth, we have deep links with world population growth? What focus is his Department India. We will consider all these matters in the context giving to that programme? of that bilateral review. [Interruption.] Mr O’Brien: I congratulate my hon. Friend on his Mr Speaker: Order. I appeal to the House to calm election as Chair of the Select Committee on Foreign down. A number of Members, including very senior Affairs, and I pay tribute to his expertise in the House and distinguished Members, are conducting animated on population, and, above all, to his recognition that, as conversations from a sedentary position, but I want to part of all our reviews and DIFD programmes, we are hear Andrew Gwynne. embedding the choice for women to decide whether and Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act when to have children, and to ensure that that helps to underpin not just MDG 1 but many of the other MDGs. 11. Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): When he plans to assess the effectiveness of the Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) operation of the Debt Relief (Developing Countries) (SNP): As the millennium development goals have been Act 2010; and if he will make a statement. [6271] developed, what financial and technical support will the The Minister of State, Department for International Department give to the newly created UN Women’s Development (Mr Alan Duncan): I acknowledge the Agency to make a genuine difference to women in success of the hon. Member in initiating this important poverty in the third world? It is well recognised that Act, which is a key part of action against so-called direct help for women is the best bet for both families vulture funds. It means that UK courts of law can no and communities. longer be used to pursue excessive claims against some of the poorest countries on their historic debts, ensuring Mr O’Brien: We pressed for that to take place, and I that resources are available to tackle poverty. We will am aware that the candidates who will be considered for review the effectiveness of this new Act before the the post are well forward in the process. We are encouraged sunset clause expires next June. that that is going to be taking place, and it has our full support. Andrew Gwynne: May I take this opportunity to place on record my thanks and appreciation to Sally Keeble, Education who successfully steered the Bill through while I was recovering from illness? Given the importance of this 13. Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): What legislation to the 40 most indebted countries, will the steps he is taking to seek to ensure that the millennium Minister please ensure that it continues so that these development goals relating to education are met. [6273] important measures remain in place in the UK and that never again will a British court be used to take the The Secretary of State for International Development third-world debts from these countries? (Mr Andrew Mitchell): Achieving the millennium development goals, including those for education, is at Mr Duncan: I acknowledge the work of the hon. the heart of the Government’s development policy. We Gentleman and the former hon. Lady in putting the are reviewing all our programmes to ensure we focus on legislation on the statute book. It was there as a result those that deliver maximum value for money. 361 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 362

Mr Williams: I thank the Secretary of State for that Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): The Prime response, but may I also commend to him the Global Minister will not be surprised to hear that I intend to Campaign for Education’s work on this matter, in particular continue campaigning to keep the Hercules fleet at its request that the UK Government commit themselves RAF Lyneham in my constituency as long as I can. to a 10-year sector plan for education? If there is one However, if, at the end of the day, it moves to Brize thing that education needs, particularly primary education, Norton in his constituency, and takes with it the jobs it is stability in those funding streams. and economic prosperity that go with it, will he at least use all his good offices to ensure that we find some way Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman makes an important of bringing jobs and economic prosperity back into the point about consistency and clarity of funding, and we vacated site at Lyneham? will be looking at all these points in connection with the bilateral review of how we spend money in each of our The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has fought a target countries. As he knows, an important conference long and noble campaign on this issue, and has made is taking place this weekend in South Africa, which I very strong arguments—I know how strong they are, hope a Minister will be able to attend. because every time I get into a Hercules, whether in Afghanistan or elsewhere, the pilots always immediately complain about having to move from his constituency to mine. He makes a good point about economic PRIME MINISTER development, and we will ensure that, if this goes ahead, we will see good, strong economic development in his The Prime Minister was asked— constituency.

Engagements Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): I support what the Prime Minister has said on the fifth Q1. [6246] Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) anniversary of the terrible 7/7 bombings. Today we (Lab/Co-op): If he will list his official engagements for remember those who were killed and injured, and their Wednesday 7 July. families and friends. We pay tribute to the emergency services, which responded with such care and such The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): As the courage, and we stand with the Government in our House will be aware, today is the fifth anniversary of determination to defeat those who would bring terror the 7 July terrorist attacks on central London. I am sure to our streets. that everyone in the House and people in the country There has been a lot of progress on tackling domestic will remember where they were, and what they were violence, but still every year hundreds of thousands of doing, when that dreadful news came through. Our women are victims of it. Many of the perpetrators are hearts should go out to the families and friends of those sent to prison—rightly, in my view—but now the Justice who died. They will never be forgotten. Our thoughts Secretary has embarked on a sentencing review, and has are also with those who were injured, physically and suggested that short sentences do not work. However, mentally, by the dreadful events of that day. It was a often what is needed in domestic violence cases is not dreadful day, but it was also a day that will remain—I rehabilitation, but a clear message to the perpetrator believe—a symbol of the enduring bravery of the British that it must not be repeated, and a clear message to the people. victim that the justice system takes this seriously. That is This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues what a short sentence can do. Will the Prime Minister and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I confirm that the sentencing review will not stop magistrates shall have further such meetings later today. giving short prison sentences for domestic violence?

Alun Michael: Will the Prime Minister join me in The Prime Minister: First, I thank the right hon. and congratulating the people of Somaliland on the successful, learned Lady for what she said about the anniversary peaceful and transparent election of a new President? and the tribute that she rightly paid to the emergency As the Somaliland republic has now been a beacon of services, which played an unbelievably brilliant role on democracy in Africa for nearly 20 years, will the Prime that day, and to the many people who helped them. Minister ensure that the UK keeps its promise to increase engagement with a new Government with democratic The right hon. and learned Lady is absolutely right to credentials? raise the issue of domestic violence. For too many years it was an issue that police forces and prosecutors did The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is not deal with properly, and to be fair to the last Government, right to raise this important issue concerning an area of good progress has been made over the past decade. I the world of enormous importance for our own security. agree that there are occasions when short sentences are I join him in welcoming the peaceful and credible required, and indeed the Lord Chancellor takes exactly elections in Somaliland. They are an example of genuine the same view. He said in the speech—[Interruption.] It democracy in an area of the world not noted for it. The is very important to read the speech, not just the headline. UK provided funding for election supervision, and we He said: are keen to engage with the new Government. I believe, “In my opinion, abolishing all short-term sentences and I am sure the whole House would agree, that the altogether…would be a step too far. We need penalties for the key is to prevent terrorist groups from establishing a anti-social…recidivist.” foothold in Somaliland, as they have done in Somalia. We need to ensure that magistrates have that power, but That is vital, and, yes, the Government will continue to the review is important to try to ensure that we get this engage. right. 363 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 364

Ms Harman: I thank the Prime Minister for that The Prime Minister: Of course there will be difficult reassurance. It is reassuring that the promise that the decisions, but let me—[HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!”] A simple Liberal Democrats’ made at the election is not going to question was put to the shadow Home Secretary before be carried forward. I notice that the Justice Secretary is the last election. [Interruption.] Wait for it: not looking very cheerful; perhaps he should go down “Andrew Neil: Can you guarantee if you form…the next to Ronnie Scott’s to cheer himself up. government that police numbers won’t fall? May I congratulate the Prime Minister on, instead of Alan Johnson: No”. listening to his new partner, listening to his mother? In the election he told us that his mother was a magistrate Ms Harman: But my right hon. Friend the Member and that she told him that magistrates needed the power for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) of short sentences. Quite often, it is the right thing for went on to say—I think that that was selective quoting—that somebody not to listen to their new partner but to listen we would guarantee the funding that would ensure to their mother, so I am glad that he has done that on police numbers and the numbers of police community this occasion. support officers. We were absolutely clear about that. The Prime Minister’s Lib Dem partners said that they I turn to something else mentioned in the election would have 3,000 more police officers on the beat, while campaign. The Prime Minister said that any Minister he said that he would protect front-line services. Is who comes to him with cuts to front-line services either of those promises going to be kept? People who “will be sent straight back to their department to go away and are concerned about crime want to know. think again.” Does that apply to the Home Secretary? The Prime Minister: There is nothing selective about the word no. That is what the shadow Home Secretary said when he was asked whether he could guarantee The Prime Minister: First, may I say that in my that there would be no cuts in police numbers. Let us experience there are very few people more cheerful than remember why we are here. We have a £155 billion the Lord Chancellor. He is celebrating his 40th anniversary budget deficit. The Labour party went into the last in this House, and he likes to point out that he was election promising 50% cuts in capital spending and elected before the Chancellor of the Exchequer was 20% cuts in departmental spending. We are clearing up born. He brings enormous experience and good humour the mess that Labour made. I sat at the G20 table last to all our counsels. weekend and, looking round the table, thought, “Who’s I am delighted that the right hon. and learned Lady got the biggest budget deficit? Is it Brazil? No. Is it has brought up the issue of my mother, who served on Spain? No. Is it Argentina? No.” Labour left us in a the Newbury bench for many, many years. I have to say situation where we get lectured by Argentina on the that one of the biggest challenges she had—[Interruption.] state of our budget deficit. As well as me, one of the biggest challenges that she had, and one of the reasons why she needed to hand out Ms Harman: If the right hon. Gentleman had read so many short sentences, was badly behaved CND the Office for Budget Responsibility report, he would protestors outside Greenham Common. [Interruption.] have seen that its forecast for Government borrowing I do not know whether the right hon. and learned Lady was lower than the forecast that we made before the was there. Anyway, if she wants to have more episodes election—if he had read it, he would probably also have of “Listen With Mother”, I am very happy for that at found that the Chair would not have resigned immediately any time she would like. after being appointed. Is it not clear that these are the Government’s crime policies—that the right hon. On the Home Office, of course we have to make Gentleman is threatening to take away the police officers savings. We have to make savings across Government. It people want on the beat, cutting down the right of local is not going to be easy, but absolutely we must ensure residents to CCTV and making it harder for the police that we do everything we can to protect the front line. to use DNA evidence? Those are his policies. Let me ask However, I simply do not believe that when we look at him a straightforward question: does he think that the Home Office budget there are not examples of those policies are more likely to make crime go down or waste and inefficiency and things that we can do better. go up? The right hon. and learned Lady went into the election calling for 20% cuts in every Department. That was her The Prime Minister: The point is that under the last policy—a policy of 5% cuts each year. Ours is 6% cuts Government violent crime and gun crime went through each year, so these are Labour cuts as well. the roof. The right hon. and learned Lady—[Interruption.] They almost doubled. Ms Harman: We went into the election very clear about protecting police numbers. I am asking the Prime David Miliband (South Shields) (Lab) indicated dissent. Minister a straightforward question, which he has so far failed to answer. At Prime Minister’s questions, he The Prime Minister: The shadow Foreign Secretary is was asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Westminster shouting and shaking his head. Gun crime and violent North (Ms Buck) this very simple, straightforward crime almost doubled under the last Government. There question: is going to be a rush of new Labour memoirs coming up, so perhaps hon. Members should start with the “Will there be fewer police officers at the end of this Parliament”— report of the spin doctor who worked for the last Prime [Official Report, 23 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 287.]— Minister, who— compared with now? He skirted around her question and did not answer it. Will he answer it now? Mr Speaker: Order. No, we will not bother with that. 365 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 366

Ms Harman rose— from 22p and set out a path for getting corporation tax down to 24% by the end of this Parliament. That would Hon. Members: Hear, hear! give us one of the lowest tax rates in the G8, the G20 or anywhere in Europe. That is what we will benefit from, Mr Speaker: Order. I am very clear what is in order but I note that the Labour party voted against those tax and what is not, and that is the end of the matter. reductions.

Ms Harman: Before the election, we were hearing all Q3. [6248] Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) about tougher policies and more police from the (Con): How can my right hon. Friend reassure my Conservatives; now all that seems to have sailed off constituents about the planning system? Under the last with those prison ships that the right hon. Gentleman Government, my local councils turned down some was promising to buy. We were clear: we said when we massive developments such as the Pyestock mega first came into government that we would bring crime depot, only to have those decisions overturned by down, and we did. Will he promise that under his Ministers who had never even visited the site. How can Government he will keep crime coming down? If he will we re-engage local people in these local decisions? not make that promise, it is only because he knows, as we all know, that his policies will put crime up. The Prime Minister: I want to reassure my right hon. Friend, because it is right that local authorities should The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, I was only trying to be taking decisions that affect people and that those boost sales. decisions should be taken as locally as possible. We are I can promise the right hon. and learned Lady one scrapping the targets and the bureaucracy that we inherited thing: I will not be wandering round my constituency in from the Labour party. I can tell him that, since the a stab-proof vest. That is what it came to under the last election, we have managed to scrap the new unitary Government. Gun crime went up, violent crime went councils; the comprehensive area assessments have gone; up, reoffending of prisoners went up, every prison place regional spatial strategies—gone; regional assemblies—gone; cost £45,000, more than 10% of prisoners should not home information packs—gone; and Labour’s ports tax have been there because they are foreigners, half of and bins tax have both gone. them are on drugs and 40% of them commit a crime on the way out of prison. That is the record that we have Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): If the respect inherited, and that is what we will be clearing up. agenda is to mean anything, surely it should include proper consultation with the devolved Governments Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): The and legislatures on fundamental constitutional and political latest report from the US Department of Defence to reform, which affects all parts of the United Kingdom Congress highlighted the speed and decisiveness of insurgent and will affect the composition of the devolved legislatures. propaganda in Afghanistan as a key threat to allied Will the Prime Minister therefore undertake urgently to forces. What can the coalition do to counter this threat, enter into discussions with the representatives of the given that the longer it goes on, the harder our task devolved Administrations and, if necessary, revise his becomes? proposals in the light of what they have to say? Let us have a proper respect agenda. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important point, which is that we are not just fighting a war on the The Prime Minister: Of course these discussions need ground; there is a propaganda war as well. We have to to take place, and they will take place—[Interruption.] demonstrate the progress we are making in training up Let me answer the question very directly, because I the Afghan army and the Afghan police, and in spreading listened very carefully to the statement by the Deputy security and governance across Afghanistan—particularly, Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for in our case, in southern Afghanistan. I can tell my hon. Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg) on this issue. The date Friend that we will be publishing a monthly update and and the nature of the referendum are Westminster having quarterly statements in the House to ensure that Parliament issues and it is right that they should be we keep the British public fully informed and on side as brought before the Westminster Parliament first. It does we take difficult decisions in this conflict. not make sense to take them in front of other Parliaments and Assemblies first. That is the way to do Q2. [6247] Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): In the it—[Interruption.] run-up to the general election, the Conservatives claimed to be the party that would support small Mr Speaker: Order. Members should not shout at the businesses, yet in their first Budget they cancelled tax Prime Minister in that way. First of all, it is rude. breaks for the computer games industry, which is Secondly, it delays the progress of our proceedings, and crucial to my constituency. Can the Prime Minister tell we really must not have it. not only me and the House but the hundreds of people in Dundee who are employed in the computer games Q4. [6249] Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): Can the industry and the students who study at Abertay Prime Minister reassure concerned Equitable Life university exactly why his Chancellor feels that that tax victims in my constituency that the Government break was poorly targeted? remain committed to ensuring justice for policyholders? The Prime Minister: We believe that what matters is having low tax rates, and what we did in the Budget—which The Prime Minister: I can certainly give my hon. the House voted on last night—was to cut the small Friend that reassurance. We are committed to a Bill in company rate of corporation tax back down to 20p this Session. This needs to happen. It was in 2008 that 367 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 368 the parliamentary ombudsman referred to a “decade of home owners who have been really badly treated by, regulatory failure”. The fact that we have had to wait frankly, pretty disreputable site owners. We all know of until now for this to be done is wrong. The last Government cases in which people who want to sell are put under had plenty of opportunities to grip this, but I am afraid pressure, and the rules are used to prevent them from that, in quite a cynical way, they were just waiting and obtaining fair value. It is not right, and it is not fair. The waiting, so that more of the Equitable Life policyholders Minister for Housing, my right hon. Friend the Member were dying off. That is disgraceful, and we need to get for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), is looking into the this done. issue, and I think it is probably best for the hon. Lady to meet him in order to ensure that we have robust rules Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and and the right approach, so that the rights of park home Lesmahagow) (Lab): Last Saturday afternoon, I joined owners are respected. the community of Stonehouse in my constituency to welcome home Sergeant Gary Jamieson. Sergeant Jamieson, Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): On Friday, from the Scots Guards, lost both legs and his left arm in my constituent Zac Olumegbon was murdered in a an explosion in Afghanistan. The most humbling aspect planned attack close to his school. He was just 15, and I of meeting Sergeant Jamieson was his distinct lack of know that the thoughts of the entire House will be with bitterness. He fully supports the mission in Afghanistan, his family at this very difficult time. He was the 13th and strongly believes that the British forces there are teenager to lose a life needlessly in our capital city. Can making a difference. May I ask the Prime Minister to the Prime Minister tell me, the rest of the House and the join me in paying tribute to a true British hero, and does country what his Government are doing, and will be he agree that the most fitting way in which to pay doing, to stop this happening in our communities? tribute to those who have made the ultimate sacrifice, and those who have suffered the most terrible injuries, is The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely to stay in Afghanistan until the job is done? right to raise that case, about which everyone will have read. It is absolutely horrific, and it seemed so planned The Prime Minister: I certainly join the hon. Gentleman and premeditated. It is appalling to think that things in paying the tribute that he has rightly paid to Sergeant like this happen on our streets. What will we do about Jamieson and to all who have served. Anyone who has it? I think that we need short-term measures, and then met some of the soldiers—when visiting Headley Court, much longer-term measures as well. or elsewhere—who have lost limbs in combat, through In terms of the sentencing review, it is clear to me improvised explosive devices or in other ways, cannot that we need to send the strongest possible signal that help being incredibly impressed by their spirit and bravery, carrying a knife on our streets is just unacceptable. We and their determination to go on and live as full lives as need to send the signal that it is not a defensive measure, possible. that it is not a cool thing to do, that it should not We have set out very clearly what we want to achieve happen, and that the punishment will be tough. That, in in Afghanistan. This is the key year, when we surge up my view, is the short-term measure that we need. As for the military forces and surge up the political pressure. the longer-term measures, we must do more to strengthen My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence communities, to strengthen families, and to give people will make a statement later today about how we can best an alternative to the gangs towards which they will do that, and how we can ensure that our forces are otherwise be drawn. Too many young people join a properly spread across Helmand province so that we gang because they do not have other networks, help, can really have the effect that we want. respect and hope in their lives. That is a long-term agenda, it is an agenda that I know is shared on both Let me be clear. Do I think that we should be there, in sides of the House, and we must pursue it. a combat role or in significant numbers, in five years’ time? No, I do not. This is the time to get the job done, Q6. [6251] Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): and the plan that we have envisages our ensuring that Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he will we will not be in Afghanistan in 2015. We have already resist further moves towards economic governance of been in Helmand for four or five years, and, obviously, the United Kingdom by the European Union, and that we have been in Afghanistan since 2001. It is time to we will not see the vetting of our Budget plans by the maximise the pressure now, and then to bring our forces European Commission before those plans are home as we train the Afghan army and police force to presented to the House? do the job that needs to be done, which is to keep the country secure. That is our goal, that is in our national The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right. security interest, and that is what we will do. The UK Budget should be shown to the UK Parliament— the Westminster Parliament—before it is shown to anyone Q5. [6250] Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North else, and that will always be the case under this Government. Poole) (LD): Park home owners are often elderly and I am pleased to report that subsequent to the publication vulnerable, and some suffer greatly as a result of the of our Budget, a number of international bodies—such actions of a small minority of site owners. They suffer as the OECD, the EU, the G8 and the G20—have threats, intimidation and neglect. Will the Prime recognised that it is an extremely good Budget that will Minister meet a small delegation, and me, so that we help to put this country back on track. can discuss how park home owners may be better protected? Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Can the Prime Minister give the House a clear pledge today The Prime Minister: I have every sympathy with what on child poverty? Will there be fewer children in this the hon. Lady has said. I suspect that many Members— country living in relative poverty by the end of this including me—have encountered problems with park Parliament—yes or no? 369 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 370

The Prime Minister: We are absolutely committed to and his folk. Can the Prime Minister update the House meeting the child poverty targets. I remind the hon. on this issue, and can he assure us that all lessons will be Gentleman that this Budget, despite all its difficulties, learned from this incident? Can we especially look does not add a single family to child poverty, in contrast again at getting guns off our streets? to the last Government, who put up child poverty by 100,000—[Interruption.] They shake their heads. Check The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is right to the figures and come back to me. raise this case, and the whole country is thinking of those who have lost their lives and those who have been Q7. [6252] Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): injured. It is a horrific case. I do not think that it is right Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that all now to start to talk about learning lessons: this is an new academies that will be set up will be obliged to ongoing case. The Home Secretary has been briefed by accept children with special educational needs? the chief constable and I know that the House and the country will wish the police well in their search for this The Prime Minister: I can absolutely give my hon. individual, so that we can put a stop to the horrendous Friend that assurance. Academies will be required to spree that is taking place. ensure that pupils with special educational needs are admitted on the same basis as other schools. Children Q9. [6254] Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): with special educational needs have special needs, and a Voting by non-resident home owners in regions such as compassionate, decent and tolerant country will ensure Cornwall is becoming a contentious issue. Councils are that they get the help, support, education and love that not checking whether people are voting in two they need. locations in the same election, and local residents are worried that sometimes election results might be Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): skewed. Will the Prime Minister meet me, or invite one The chief executive of Sheffield Forgemasters, Dr Graham of his ministerial colleagues to do so, to discuss this Honeyman, was last year presented with a lifetime issue? achievement award by the Institute of Directors, but various Government Front Benchers have made unwarranted personal attacks on him in the media. Will The Prime Minister: I am very happy that one of my the Prime Minister apologise now for those unjustified colleagues should have a meeting with the hon. Gentleman. attacks on a highly regarded business man? It is important that we make sure that electoral registers are accurate. It is also important to recognise that it is an offence to vote at a general election in two different The Prime Minister: I am sorry to disagree with the places. However, I think that there are problems with hon. Lady, but no one has made an attack. This is an saying whether second home owners can vote. I think excellent company. The question is whether it is an that a number of hon. Members might take rather a appropriate use of taxpayers’ money to give it to a dim view, as some of them might not be able to vote in business that could raise that money by diluting its their own constituencies, but I am happy for the hon. shareholding. Labour simply does not understand. It Gentleman to have a meeting with the Minister responsible handed out money before the election without asking for electoral registration. whether it was value for money. No wonder we are in such a complete mess. Decent Homes Programme Q8. [6253] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): The UK has a splendid reputation for the quality Q10. [6255] Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) of its agricultural science and research, and these skills (Lab): What discussions he has had with ministerial will be needed to face up to the challenges of climate colleagues on the future funding of the decent homes change and an increasing world population. Will the programme. Prime Minister confirm that Government and EU policy decisions on such matters will be taken on the The Prime Minister: First, may I welcome the hon. basis of sound science and proportionate regulation? Lady to the House? The Prime Minister: I know that the hon. Gentleman Good quality social housing is vital, especially in is a member of the all-party group on science and areas such as her constituency.It is completely unacceptable technology in agriculture. These are difficult issues, but today that 58% of the housing in her constituency is not my view is that we should be guided by the science. We of a decent standard. We have a huge backlog of work should also be guided by what consumers want, and it is to be carried out. We have ploughed £170 million back vital that we have accurate labelling. That will really be into social housing schemes this financial year, which the key to ensuring that we make progress with this the last Government promised but did not fund. Clearly, issue in a way that keeps the public on side and allows the decent homes programme will have to be looked at them to understand what it is that they are buying and in the spending review, but I understand the force of consuming. argument in her constituency particularly.

Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): The whole House Rushanara Ali: I thank the Prime Minister for that will be aware of and concerned by the ongoing incident reply. Is he aware that some 7,000 council homes in in the north-east. The killing of Chris Brown and the Tower Hamlets still need to be brought up to the decent wounding of Samantha Stobbart took place in my town homes standard? The previous Government committed of Birtley, and our thoughts and prayers should go out £220 million towards addressing the problem. Will his to their families and friends, and to PC David Rathband Government honour that commitment to my constituents? 371 Oral Answers7 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 372

The Prime Minister: As I said, we have filled in some Paisley is worried that her little sister will not be able to of the black hole left by the last Government because a learn because this Government want to charge. In her promise of extra spending was made but the money letter, Paisley says, was not found. While we made the £6 billion-worth of “please, please stop this madness”. cuts to start sorting out the finances, we used some of Will the Prime Minister listen to Paisley and have a the saved money to fill in the black hole so that those rethink? social housing schemes could go ahead. Clearly, the decent homes programme is important. We have to The Prime Minister: First, may I congratulate the make sure that it provides value for money, but her hon. Lady? Many people in this country think that this constituency has very great needs, with so many is a good time to leave politics and go into the media. substandard houses. May I congratulate someone who left the warmth of the GMTV sofa in order to sit on a green Bench here? The hon. Lady raises an important case, but I have to tell her that not all Labour councils were able to deliver Engagements the free swimming pledge. I am afraid that this is one of the things, like many others, that it will not always be Q11. [6256] Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): My possible to guarantee in the incredibly straitened times nine-year-old constituent, Paisley Ward, says that she that we are living in, when we have a £155 billion budget and her brother learned to swim because it was free. deficit to deal with. 373 7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 374

Afghanistan The situation in Marjah remains challenging, but counter- insurgencies are about progressively winning the confidence of the local people, and the US Marines are well placed 12.32 pm to succeed. The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): Elsewhere in central Helmand, where our presence is Mr Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to more established, we have seen considerable success. In update the House on our operations in Afghanistan. As Nad-e-Ali, British troops have been operating alongside the Prime Minister has said, we intend to make regular the Afghans to secure the district centre and allow updates to the House. unfettered access to local roads Improved security is As this is a complex subject, I have made maps allowing effective governance to flourish and trade to available to assist hon. Members. I am grateful to you grow. In May, for example, around 3,000 Nad-e-Ali for your support, Mr Speaker. These are now available residents elected a more representative district community in the Vote Office, and the Whips on both sides of the council. ISAF now intends to reinforce this success. For House are distributing them. In addition, I will obviously that reason, I have accepted an ISAF request for a be happy to arrange further briefings at the Ministry of temporary deployment of elements of our theatre reserve Defence, should Members find them useful. battalion, the 2nd Battalion the Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment. The theatre reserve battalion is a standing The Prime Minister reminded us today of the ongoing force based in Cyprus, which I have instructed should sacrifices made by our armed forces in Afghanistan. In be used only for time-limited deployments to fulfil the face of such losses, we should be in no doubt about specific tasks. This deployment will meet those criteria. the importance of the mission—particularly today, the The additional forces will be used to give commanders fifth anniversary of the London bombings in 2005. It is additional flexibility to reinforce progress in central vital to our national security that we have a stable Helmand this summer. Afghanistan that is able to maintain its own security In a counter-insurgency campaign, the people are the and prevent al-Qaeda from returning. prize. It is hugely important that we strike the right As I made clear in Washington last week, we are a balance between the numbers of the civilian population committed member of the international coalition of and the size of the security forces available to protect 46 countries in Afghanistan. We have a clear political them. The Prime Minister and I regularly argued in strategy, and a clear military counter-insurgency plan to opposition that British troops in Helmand were too support it. The focus now is on delivering, and we can thinly spread and that we had insufficient force densities be confident that General Petraeus will build on the for effective counter-insurgency. That is why we welcome considerable success of General McChrystal. the arrival of more than 18,000 US Marines, whose We face many challenges. Progress has been slower in presence is allowing us to deliver a better and more some areas than others, particularly on the political realistic distribution of tasks within the international side. We can expect success in counter-insurgency to be coalition. gradual, cumulative and hard won but there has, As the House is aware, ISAF has already transferred nevertheless, been considerable progress. Through a security responsibility for Musa Qala and Kajaki to US UK lens, it would be easy to assume that all of Afghanistan forces, who are building on our achievements there. is like Helmand. In fact, many parts of the country are Lieutenant General Rodriguez, ISAF’s operational largely secure, with low levels of violence. In Kabul, the commander, will today announce the next phase of this Afghans themselves have assumed responsibility for process—I understand that he will do so within the next security, and have proved themselves capable of dealing hour. ISAF intends to restructure its forces in the Farah with the localised threats that have emerged. and Nimroz provinces so that it can consolidate a US We are also making good progress on building up the marine brigade in northern Helmand, which will assume Afghan security forces, so that this pattern can be responsibility for security in Sangin later this year. This repeated elsewhere. The Afghan army has been growing will simplify current command arrangements and enable steadily over the years—and by 20% in recent months—to UK troops to be redeployed to reinforce progress in the about 130,000 troops now. We are playing our part, and key districts of central Helmand. The theatre reserve the Government have recently approved the expenditure battalion will then withdraw. The result will be a coherent of up to £189 million on new surveillance, communications and equitable division of the main populated areas of and logistics equipment for our bases, as part of Britain’s Helmand between three brigade-sized forces, with the ongoing commitment to support the effective partnering US in the north and south, and the UK-led Task Force of the Afghan security forces. Helmand, alongside our Danish and Estonian allies, in the central population belt. In southern Afghanistan, the story of this year has been one of the Afghans themselves increasingly coming We have been closely consulted by ISAF, and fully to the fore in the fight against the insurgency. In Kandahar, support this plan. In Sangin, UK forces have made and under the direct oversight of President Karzai, huge progress in the face of great adversity. The district Afghan security forces are leading operations as part of centre has been transformed. Helmand, as a whole, is a a rising tide of security in order to set the conditions for safer place as a result of our endeavours and sacrifices improved Afghan governance. In Helmand, Afghan there. I am sure that the whole House will join me in and international security assistance force units have paying tribute to those who have lost their lives in together succeeded in expanding the authority of the Sangin, and those who continue to serve there. Afghan Government to 11 out of the 14 districts, by The operations in Afghanistan, though geographically driving insurgent fighters out of the population centres distant, are of vital importance to our national security. of Babaji and Nad-e-Ali, while consolidating previous On the ground, we continue to make progress. There gains in Lashkar Gah, Now Zad, Nawa and Gereshk. will be hard days ahead, but the further changes that I 375 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 376 have announced will mean more manpower and greater We had already agreed in principle to hand command focus for the key terrain of central Helmand. We have in Sangin over to the American brigade. I understand the right strategy, and we are determined to succeed. that the Secretary of State is now saying that it is not I commend this statement to the House. only in terms of command—the Americans themselves will take over in Sangin. When will that happen? Has he Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab): I any idea what forces will be deployed, and in what thank the Defence Secretary for his statement, for early numbers, into the Sangin area? sight of it and for the indications that he gave me Does the Secretary of State accept that there will be yesterday about the broad outline of what he was going mixed emotions, and pretty deep emotions, among many to say today. That is good news for our ability to elements of our armed forces who have served in continue to support, from all parts of the House, our Helmand—not only those who have experienced injury, forces’ operations in Helmand province. but those who have lost loved ones, which includes I welcome what the Defence Secretary said about his families back here, and everybody who has served in the commitment to regular updates to the House, and his most dangerous part of our theatre of operations? Our offer of briefings in the Ministry of Defence, but will he forces went out there on a daily basis to patrol, fully consider continuing the direct military briefings that knowing the risks that they faced, and the whole House started last year for Members here at the House of must pay tribute to the immense bravery, courage and Commons? They were appreciated by Members on resilience that they have shown over a period of time. both sides, and I know that the all-party Army group They have achieved some considerable improvements in has written to him and asked him to continue them. If Sangin, but I think that the Defence Secretary will he could, that would be appreciated. I know that it is accept that we are still handing on a challenge. We have onerous in terms of his time, but I ask him to consider not got as far as we ideally would have hoped to get in doing so. Helmand before this hand-on. I totally agree about the purpose of the mission. Our forces are in Afghanistan to protect our national security Dr Fox: I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and to keep us safe. The right hon. Gentleman says that for his support for the specific proposals that I have set we have a clear counter-insurgency plan and the military out today and for his general support on the mission in tactics to support that plan, but he knows that there is Afghanistan. He was very generous with the briefings some concern and confusion over whether there are that he made available to the Opposition when he was in deadlines. Will the Government do their level best to government, and we will continue the same courtesy. clear up that confusion, so that people know the exact I also fully intend to continue the briefings for Members commitments? Is our combat mission in Afghanistan to of Parliament begun under the previous Government; continue on a conditions-based footing until the Afghan they are very valuable. In addition, as I said, if we are forces can take over, as was the situation, or is there a able to provide more detailed briefings in the Ministry very clear deadline from the new Government stating of Defence, we are happy to do so. We should not, in that our combat mission will end on a particular date, any way, shape or form, be shy about providing any irrespective of the conditions in Afghanistan? It is Member of this House with the information they require enormously important to clear up that point. to make better sense of what is happening in this most important national security mission. The right hon. Gentleman felt the need to say that, in opposition, he and the current Prime Minister repeatedly The shadow Secretary of State is entirely correct that said that there were issues of force density, but I ask him it took until the American surge was fully under way for to accept that it was not only he in opposition who felt us to be better able to have sensible force densities. He the need to concentrate on and deal with force densities, asked me directly about comparisons between the British because we in government had exactly the same priorities. and Americans. Combat Team North has a population Before force densities could be addressed, however, we of 441,000, which is 37% of the population; Task Force needed to have someone to hand those districts on to, Helmand has 388,000, or 32%; and Combat Team so, before the arrival of the American uplift, we could South has 370,000, or 31%. These are much better not hand on Musa Qala, Kajaki or Sangin to anyone matches in terms of force density. He asks if this will other than the Taliban. Thankfully, the American uplift effectively be it. Well, not necessarily, as there will be now gives us an opportunity to rebalance our forces in changes in the mission, but we will want to continue this Afghanistan, and we have been doing that for some pattern, or shape, in terms of force density. As he says, time. I understand that his announcement today is we have reached the end point, at least for now, of a simply a continuation of an ongoing process. Does that process that began some time ago. effectively end the need for force rebalancing? In the On the size of the theatre reserve, we will have some British area of operations, do we now have the same 300 personnel, and they will stay there until October. ratio of forces to population as the Americans have on The size of the current UK force is about 1,000—I their side of the line? think that the exact number is 1,008. The exact number The right hon. Gentleman said that Marjah is very that the Americans put in will of course be for their challenging. Does he intend to deploy elements, as he commanders to determine in terms of the security said, of the theatre reserve battalion to the American— situation that they find. Marjah—area of operations? If so, for how long, and in As regards 2015, I can only repeat what the Prime what numbers? He says “elements”. Does that mean the Minister has said—that British troops will not be there whole theatre reserve battalion? Do we now, effectively, in a combat role, or in significant numbers, in five years’ have no reserve for the rest of the deployment, or are time, but we can expect them to still be there in a some elements of the theatre reserve battalion still training role. There will be a continued need for us to available to cover other contingencies that might arise? ensure that the quality of the Afghan national security 377 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 378

[Dr Fox] It is clear—as it always has been, to the credit of the previous Government—that this is not just about forces is adequate. I echo the point that he made by Afghanistan, but about Pakistan. Increasingly, on both saying that we are very fortunate in this country to have sides of the Atlantic and throughout the international a volunteer Army—people who are willing to put their coalition, it is recognised that we are dealing with a life and limb at risk on a voluntary basis for the security regional problem, and that without success in Pakistan of this country, its people and its interests. We are and the full co-operation of the Pakistani authorities in deeply honoured and privileged to have such people in dealing with the Pakistan Taliban and the Afghan Taliban, our armed forces. we would find the mission in Afghanistan much more difficult. Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con): I am happy to reiterate my hon. Friend’s points. This I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement and particularly is a vital national security mission. We cannot simply what he said about the ratio of troops to local population. wish it away. If I could make one wish, it would be that General McChrystal instigated a change of policy so all countries in the international coalition show the that our troops should fire only when they were absolutely same resolve displayed by our armed forces in burden sure that Afghan civilians would not be put at risk. sharing effectively, with the minimum of caveats, to Inevitably, that put our troops at a greater degree of ensure that we are absolutely able to deliver the maximum risk, but with the longer-term aim of maintaining the effect for the international coalition’s mission. support of the local population. Is any change to that policy being considered? Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): I disagree with the broad consensus on Afghanistan, and have Dr Fox: As my right hon. Friend knows, we do not done so for some time. Is the Secretary of State aware discuss rules of engagement specifically, but it is true that the question every Member of the House should that the protection of the population was given a higher ask whenever they sit in the Chamber is this: how many priority as part of General McChrystal’s counter-insurgency more British soldiers—I pay tribute to their bravery—will strategy. That will continue. die or be seriously injured before the talks begin with the enemy? General Richards, the most senior British Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): Although I am not general, says that such talks are more or less inevitable. completely convinced about the reasons for the movements I believe that the war is unwinnable, and that it does not that the Secretary of State described today, in fairness, I help in the fight against terrorism; other hon. Members do not have the facts and intelligence that he has. I am say that the war is essential in that. also concerned about the Prime Minister’s statement that we should be out of Afghanistan in five years, Dr Fox: There are a number of points to make in which has been repeated. Will that statement encourage response to the hon. Gentleman. I fully accept that he or discourage the Taliban in their operations against has long held the view that the war was not justified, but our forces? we must agree to disagree on that. I believe that it is a vital national security mission for this country. There Dr Fox: We intend the follow the strategy through. has never been any doubt that ultimately there must be We believe that it is the correct strategy, and that it is a political element. The international coalition, the likely to produce success in the time scales outlined. I previous Government and this Government have always should reiterate to the hon. Gentleman that General held the view that we cannot win the wider regional McChrystal initially assessed that the Afghan national conflict in Afghanistan and Pakistan by military means security forces would be able to take on the role themselves alone. in 2013. We amended that as part of the strategy, to 2014, because we believe that that is a more realistic There is difficulty in determining who is reconcilable target. What the Prime Minister set out is entirely to the Afghan constitution and Government and who is consistent with the strategy. The Afghan national security not—that is an ongoing process—but I fundamentally forces can be expected to take full control of their own disagree with the hon. Gentleman. The measure of a security by 2014, as set out in the strategy by General conflict or war is not the number of those who sadly McChrystal. die, but whether we succeed in our mission and strategy. I believe that we should at all times see our armed forces Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): Five years ago to not as victims, but as champions of the freedoms and the day, we were attacked not by Afghans, but by security that they are trying to bring for our country. I Yorkshiremen. They were trained not in Afghanistan, am sure that that is how they would like to be seen: as but in Pakistan and the Lake district. The previous victors, not victims. Government insisted on telling us that conventional military operations would somehow impede that sort of Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): My right attack in future, but that is clearly nonsense. Will the hon. Friend is undoubtedly the right man in the right Secretary of State come to the Dispatch Box and explain role, and he is loyally defending a strategy even though that we are involved in a regional war that stretches it might not be the right one. Does he accept that there right the way from Iran to Russia, that that is as much is a fundamental tension between classic counter-insurgency about fighting for Pakistan’s stability as Afghanistan’s warfare down among the people, which takes many stability, and that the lives and blood of our servicemen years to bring to a conclusion, and the statement made and women are being shed in a crucial cause? by the Foreign Secretary yesterday? He said that “there will not be British troops in a combat role or in significant Dr Fox: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for the numbers in Afghanistan in five years’ time”—[Official Report, points he makes, which will resonate across the House. 6 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 168.] 379 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 380

If we are not to sacrifice our strategic interests in the Dr Fox: My hon. Friend is correct. We have to make area, will the Defence Secretary hold himself open to available the full range of ways in which we can deal the possibility that a plan B might be necessary if plan with IEDs, including UAVs. The subject of our NATO A does not work out on schedule? allies has been raised by previous Defence Secretaries, and I raised it at the NATO ministerial meeting, where Dr Fox: The Government believe, in alliance with the there was what I would have called when I was in the United States and the other members of the international Foreign Office a full and frank exchange of views on coalition, that we have the correct strategy. We believe burden sharing in NATO. I would flag up just one issue, that the counter-insurgency aim of protecting the however. As we move into the transition phase in population, and of providing them with security so that Afghanistan, with districts being handed over to the there is a space for better governance, is the correct Afghan Government, it would be very unwise for the strategy. alliance to believe that that was an excuse for it to leave Afghanistan, or for any members of the alliance to do There is a difference between our national security so and thereby leave only a small number of countries mission to ensure that Afghanistan can develop in a in the most difficult areas. During the transition period, way that enables the Afghan forces to look after their it is essential that we look to have a NATO strategy that own security, and the wider mission of reconstruction ensures that burden-sharing continues to the end of the and development—that is complementary to, but not mission, and that there is not an easy bail-out for those the same as, the national security mission—which will who just happen to have been in some of the quieter have to be undertaken for a very long time, given the areas. social state of Afghanistan. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): This October Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): I will be the ninth anniversary of the deployment of support the Secretary of State’s response to the hon. British troops into Afghanistan, 300 of whom have Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick). On the question died. Thousands of Afghan people have also died, and of dialogue with the Taliban, we need to be clear that it the war has spread over into Pakistan and is in danger would be entirely unacceptable for us to discuss the of spreading into other countries as well. What on earth future of Afghanistan with them at the same time as would the Secretary of State say constitutes victory in they are killing our soldiers in that country. Should not Afghanistan, before the withdrawal inevitably takes place? we draw on the lessons from Northern Ireland and other theatres of conflict? We should require a clear and Dr Fox: “Victory” is a word I do not use; I talk unequivocal ceasefire by the Taliban and some degree instead about success in Afghanistan. On the national of commitment to non-violent principles before there security mission we have set ourselves, I would describe can be any question of dialogue with them. success as a stable enough Afghanistan that is able to manage its own internal and external security without Dr Fox: Although in principle I do not disagree with the need for external intervention. There is of course the right hon. Gentleman, we must be clear what we are the Pakistani problem to be dealt with as well, which dealing with. The Taliban covers a broad range of will require us to give considerable help in a number of different groupings—there is no single Taliban commander different areas to the Government of Pakistan. There is or a Taliban army with a Taliban uniform—and it is not going to be a moment when we can hoist up a flag advantageous to find the groups among them who are say, “This is a victory.” There will be ways in which we reconcilable to the process, and to bring them on board measure success in terms of national security, but the to create a critical mass of support. That can only help regional problems are likely to continue for some time, us in our wider counter-insurgency aims. We should and if we are serious about the national security of the also reflect on the terms we use—not just “the Taliban”, United Kingdom we cannot simply turn a blind eye and but “the insurgency”—and ask whether there are a wish them away. number of discrete insurgencies rather than just one, Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Does the just as there are a number of discrete groups that we Secretary of State agree, however, that we went into tend to call “the Taliban.” If the House accepts that we Afghanistan on the wrong premise? We were told we are dealing with greater complexity than is sometimes were going there to protect Londoners going to work. described, we might find it easier to understand the We now know that al-Qaeda has moved most of its complexity of some of the solutions that we and the operations to Pakistan, and that most of the Taliban Afghan Government must find. whom we kill die within 20 miles of where they were born, so why are we there? Is it to hold territory, which Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Afghan national nobody has ever succeeded in doing in Afghanistan—not army is now larger than the British Army. The Secretary even the Soviets with 240,000 people? If it is to fight a of State referred to the international coalition of 46 dirty war and keep heads down, why do we not place countries in Afghanistan. I pay tribute to Denmark and more reliance on special forces, rather than let the Estonia, but the simple fact is that none of our major British Army carry on bleeding to death? European allies have had troops on the ground in Helmand province. Bearing in mind that soldiers from Dr Fox: My hon. Friend knows that we never comment 16 Air Assault Brigade will this September make their whatsoever on special forces and what they do, but we third deployment to Helmand, will he confirm that the are in Afghanistan to give the Afghan Government new surveillance equipment will include additional space to develop the skills in governance and security, unmanned aerial vehicles, because they must be a great so that when we do leave we do not leave behind an way of identifying insurgents and those planting improvised ungoverned space into which, as a security vacuum, explosive devices? elements of transnational terrorism are once again drawn. 381 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 382

[Dr Fox] coalition. The issue was widely discussed at the NATO ministerial meeting at a number of different levels, and I I sometimes wonder whether the general public remember think there is growing acceptance that providing policing the chronology correctly. I was in the United States last and law and order, not at a Supreme Court level but in week, where a woman said to me, “If we hadn’t been in terms of dispute resolution and effective policing at the Afghanistan, we would never have had 9/11.” We need very lowest level, is one of the ways to deny the political to remember that we did not seek this confrontation; it and social space that the Taliban will otherwise occupy. was brought to our streets and cities against our will. We did not seek this conflict, but we will see it through Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): From the British to its conclusion. perspective, progress in Afghanistan is often measured through the lens of Helmand. Is that a fair reflection of Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): This morning some the security situation across the whole country? of us met Staffan de Mistura, the United Nations special representative in Afghanistan, who pointed out the importance of the mission to women in Afghanistan. Dr Fox: All countries tend to see Afghanistan in They have returned to the professions and to the schools, different ways depending on the focus of their national and that should not be underestimated. Perhaps there media. There are countries that see Kandahar as being are never enough women in the Ministry of Defence Afghanistan, and there are countries that see Kabul as because this point is never made in the Chamber. being Afghanistan. We tend to see Helmand as being Afghanistan. It is useful if people understand that Dr Fox: As I said, we are providing the security across the country as a whole, a lot of progress has been environment in which the Afghan Government can, made on security.Those Members who have been travelling over time, develop not only their own security structures to Afghanistan over a period of time will have noticed but better governance, and part of that better governance that, for example, in Kabul there is a great difference in has to be a full understanding of human rights, and that the security arrangements and how easy it is to move human rights apply irrespective of race or creed or around the city. Clearly, that has not yet spread to gender. enough parts of the country, but we are getting close to transition. While it is understandable that we and our David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Many years ago media focus on our casualties and the fatalities that we, during the Gulf war, I accused the BBC of being the very sadly, have taken, we also need to show the other Baghdad broadcasting corporation. I am very concerned side of the ledger to the public—the successes being that there is now a similar situation with the Taliban, in achieved in Afghanistan. That is vital if we are to that they are getting far too high a profile. The news this maintain public support, which is a very important part morning is that, apparently, it is a defeat that we are of our resilience in a democracy. moving troops around in Sangin. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the media must be very responsible Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Unusually, I find when reporting propaganda from our enemies, and that myself in agreement with the hon. Member for New they need to take a close look at this? Forest East (Dr Lewis) on these matters. Can the Secretary of State tell the House how many of our 46 coalition Dr Fox: I think it is good counsel for the BBC and the partners have set a date for the end of combat operations, media generally, and for Members of the House, that and if he were a Taliban commander in Helmand, we use reasonable language and are balanced in our would he be more encouraged or less encouraged to views when discussing this issue. We have a large number continue his insurgency knowing that such a date had of serving men and women in Afghanistan, and they been set? will listen to what we say and to what the media say. That is also true of those who are our enemies in that part of the world. Clarity and honesty would be two Dr Fox: I think the best way to deal with the elements very useful tools. I also think, however, that we need to of the Taliban is to show our commitment to the use information. For that reason, I have asked a group strategy itself—to show that we are willing to put the of our national newspaper editors to come to the MOD forces on the ground and that we are in full support of in the near future for a detailed briefing, simply in order the strategy as set out by General McChrystal and now that they can understand the facts on the ground and being carried forward by General Petraeus. I hope the get them first hand from the military, so that there is no increase in US troop numbers and some of the movements excuse for misreporting the facts in future. I have set out today will leave our enemies in Afghanistan in no doubt as to our seriousness about taking and Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): holding territory and improving security on behalf of Can the Secretary of State update us on the progress the Afghan Government. that has been made in recruiting to the Afghan national police force, which is just as important as the army? Mr Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. Does he Dr Fox: Good progress has been made on the number agree that the challenge in Afghanistan is to turn military of Afghan national police, but to be frank with the hon. success into “hearts and minds” success on the ground, Lady that is not really my concern. My concern is the so that the public there see some advantage from our quality of the recruits to the Afghan national police, military success? In doing that, we will achieve two and what we need to do is not to have them recruited things: we will make it less likely that it will be a training and then trained, but trained and then put in place. ground for terrorists, and more likely that we will get a That is a vital mission for the whole of the international political settlement. 383 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 384

Dr Fox: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. As I find security in Afghanistan and be able to leave until said earlier, it is not possible to separate entirely the the Government of Afghanistan, nationally, regionally military elements from the wider political elements. and locally, are respected and trusted by the Afghan Indeed, the whole point of the counter-insurgency strategy people; it is they who have to win the hearts and minds is people-centric: it is there to give greater security to of the people. What is the governor of Helmand province the people of Afghanistan and to give them greater doing to reach out to all sections of the non-insurgent confidence in the ability of their Government to provide population and their political leaders to incorporate that security later. When we are making some of these them in government? What is being done to start talks arguments, we must also remember that as we win what with those sections within the insurgency who can be he describes as the “hearts and minds” battle in the talked into laying down their arms and joining constitutional counter-insurgency strategy, that also provides us with government? better intelligence. The greater the proportion of the Afghan population who feel secure, the more likely we Dr Fox: I have met the governor in Helmand on are to get information that will tell us who is planting several occasions, and he is one of the most impressive IEDs and where. That is what ultimately happened in and bravest politicians in Afghanistan. Despite a number Iraq, and that counter-insurgency strategy and those of attempts having been made on his life, he continues same themes will apply in Afghanistan. to get out among the population. A good example of the projects he has been spearheading include the Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Secretary distribution of wheat seed and fertiliser, which I personally of State for his statement. One of my concerns, which saw him being involved with. has been voiced by other Members, is about media speculation. Some of the papers referred to retreat The hon. Gentleman is correct that it is not only the today, but there is no retreat: the fact is that some governance of Kabul that will matter, but the governance soldiers’ tour of duty is coming to an end. Will he state at ground level. As I said to the hon. Member for clearly to everyone, including those in the media who Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) earlier, simple perhaps do not have the ears to listen but who need to issues such as dispute resolution at the very lowest level listen, that what is being done is tactical and is not being will be required if we are to deny the Taliban the space done for any other reason? Earlier, the hon. Member for they will otherwise occupy. We need to be very clear East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann) that if we are not there, they will be, and we have to spoke about his constituent who had lost two legs and make some of those small details available. When I an arm, and about his great courage. One could not fail spoke to a farmer—I think I have mentioned this in the to be touched by his comments. On behalf of the House before—he said, “When I sold poppy, I was soldiers who have returned injured and the 99 who have given a farm price by the Taliban and I sold it at the died, we need a commitment from the media to support farm gates. When I take wheat to market, I have to go the troops in the way that we clearly have. through several checkpoints and it costs me money every time I go through a checkpoint.” It is the small Dr Fox: What I have announced today makes complete things on the ground that we sometimes have to focus military and strategic sense. It is what commanders in on and get right if we are to have wider success in the ISAF wanted to happen to make full use of the forces big strategic picture. that we have. Our forces in Sangin have done a wonderful job, as will the US Marines after them. When our forces Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): May leave Sangin and move into central Helmand, they will I ask the Secretary of State how splitting Regional do so with their heads held high, rightly proud of their Command South assists with the ISAF mission in achievements. Any attempt by anyone to describe that Afghanistan? as a retreat is quite contemptible.

Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): I Dr Fox: This was simply a common-sense approach pay tribute to my old regiment, the 1st Battalion Scots to have greater clarity in our command structures given Guards, who are currently serving in Helmand province the increased size of the force, and it has shown just and who will be not only delighted but encouraged by how well the coalition is now working together. I remember the fact that the redeployment will bring better focus. criticisms being made in the House in the early part of Working closely with the United States makes them the deployment in Afghanistan that there were too remember that they are not alone. Is it only the US that many command structures, and that no one was talking is going into Sangin, or will other international partners to anyone else. Anyone who has spoken to General be joining in that redeployment? Parker or General Carter recently will have discovered that we have very clear lines of communication and Dr Fox: It will be the United States that goes into command. That has been a major improvement over Sangin, but to enable US forces to be fully deployable to the years in what is happening in Afghanistan. Sangin, other nations will be taking up some of the territory currently occupied by the US. I hope my hon. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I thank Friend understands that, although I am aware of which the right hon. Gentleman for giving this update on what forces they are, I have been asked by ISAF commanding is going on in Afghanistan. I am a little encouraged by forces not to say who they are yet. what he says will be the likely situation in 2015, but can he assure the House that every possible diplomatic Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): I am reassured to avenue will now be pursued with the greatest possible hear the Secretary of State repeating the Government’s vigour, so that we can come out of there as soon as support for the comprehensive approach. We will not possible? 385 Afghanistan7 JULY 2010 Afghanistan 386

Dr Fox: It is very important that our concentration, Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I welcome the statement diplomatically, is on getting all the parts of the international from my right hon. Friend. What efforts are being made coalition to do everything they can to support the to encourage the Pakistan armed forces to take greater success of the mission. It is also important, as I said responsibility for Taliban activity south of the border earlier, that as we move to transition, we do not have a with Helmand? coalition in which some members think it is permissible for them to leave without making any further contribution. Dr Fox: Every effort is taken, including substantial There will be a very important diplomatic effort in the talks undertaken by the Foreign Secretary in Pakistan months ahead to hold the international coalition together, recently. All contacts at a political, diplomatic and so that we see through this strategy to a successful military level are used constantly to emphasise to the conclusion. Government of Pakistan the importance of their role in dealing with this wider security issue. As has been Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): I very much mentioned already, this is not simply a problem that welcome today’s statement and the focus on central relates to Afghanistan within its own borders. There is a Helmand that it implies. If I have understood the Secretary regional element and unless we have the full co-operation of State correctly, the deployment of the theatre reserve of Pakistan and success in Pakistan, any success we battalion will effectively mean an increase in our forces might achieve in security in Afghanistan would naturally on the ground in Afghanistan of about 10%, which will be undermined. We take every opportunity to tell the be of concern to some people. Will he confirm that that Government of Pakistan that we stand ready to help deployment will simply be until the Americans take them in their important contribution to this mission. over in Sangin, when the battalion will be withdrawn, so that effectively, the number of our troops will remain Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): My the same as the current number? right hon. Friend will be fully aware that for there to be any sort of success in Afghanistan, we need to win the Dr Fox: It is likely that the uplift in the UK numbers propaganda war, yet the latest report to Congress from from the reserve will be about 300, or possibly a little the US Department of Defence clearly highlights that less, and they will remain there until October. That is we are not succeeding on this front. What more can we when we intend to withdraw them. do to turn this around? Success in a counter-insurgency war can soon become a pyrrhic victory if we do not John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): carry the people with us. May I press the Secretary of State further on the ongoing combat role of our troops? He will keep his Dr Fox: One of the elements of asymmetry so often options open, will he not? If in three, four or five years’ talked about is the fact that, whereas we, in a democracy, time there continues to be a need for a significant must take our people with us, the Taliban do not have number of British troops in a combat role, he will be the problem of having to influence democratic opinion. prepared to keep them there, will he not? It is vital, as my hon. Friend says, that we should do so. It is incumbent on us in this House, on the Government as a whole, on the media and on our armed forces to Dr Fox: I do not intend to give any comfort to the show the British public that there are two sides to the Taliban by talking about what might happen if we are ledger. Yes, we have fatalities and casualties but there is not successful. We intend to see this mission through, to also success. We are beginning to see greater stability do what is required to put in the numbers needed to across much of Afghanistan. As my hon. Friend the make the mission a success, to ensure that the equipment Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) said earlier, is there and to play our full part in the international if we stopped viewing things entirely through the prism coalition. We intend that the strategy as set out by of Helmand and started to view them across the country General McChrystal will be met within the time scale he as a whole, perhaps the electorate in this country would set out. get a better and more accurate picture.

Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): Does my (LD): I join the rest of the House in paying tribute to right hon. Friend agree that, given that the Taliban the courage and commitment of our forces, the burden continue to draw their funding from the illegal drugs of which is reinforced by this redeployment, which trade, we must tackle them successfully on all fronts—not shows what they have undertaken on their own so far. only militarily, politically and diplomatically, but Will the Secretary of State outline what effect the new economically too—by getting to grips with the illegal military reconfiguration will have on the provincial drugs trade and cutting off their funding at source? reconstruction team and on engagement with civilian communities in those areas? Dr Fox: I agree with my hon. Friend that dealing with the drugs trade has to be part of the long-term way in Dr Fox: The provincial reconstruction team will continue which we improve stability, security and governance in as it is. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for giving Afghanistan. If we are to do that, we must find alternative me this opportunity, which I should perhaps have taken incomes for some of the poorest people on the planet. earlier, to praise the work of the PRT. Its success will be Until we can provide alternative incomes for those who central to the long-term stability of, and thereby the are basically subsistence farmers, in many ways, we are governance support for, the security situation. It is a unlikely to win hearts and minds and, indeed, the leading example of what is possible and is internationally economic case that my hon. Friend so correctly points admired. out. 387 7 JULY 2010 388

Points of Order advance notification, but there is no obligation to notify. He has put his views on the record and contributed enthusiastically to our exchanges. 1.23 pm Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab): Further Mr Speaker. Are you aware that the BBC is reporting to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As you know, a that the Education Secretary is to apologise for the number of schools in my constituency have been affected inaccuracies in the information given to this House on by this misleading information. I tried to phone the Monday about cuts to the school building programme? Secretary of State yesterday, but he was not courteous Are you aware of such an apology and has the Secretary enough to return my call. I heard Mr Andrew Neil of State made any representations to you about making announce that the Secretary of State was going to it to the House? I ask this because the BBC reports that apologise for this matter and I assumed that he would the apology is to be in the form of a letter to you, do so to the House. Do we have any remedy to try to Mr Speaker. Surely any such apology should be made in ascertain what the Secretary of State is doing? I have this Chamber. Chaos on Monday has turned into farce already cancelled a meeting to come here and it would on Wednesday. be unfair and discourteous if he made Members cancel any other meetings. Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and for a few minutes’ advance notice of that point of order. Mr Speaker: There are a couple of points to make in In response to his first point about whether I am aware response to the hon. Gentleman. The first is that the of the BBC news report, the answer is an unequivocal Secretary of State is an extremely busy person and it is yes, for the simple reason that he apprised me of that not for me to comment on the nature or frequency of point of order. The second point that I would make is telephone conversations that he has. I can say only for that I have had no communication from the Secretary myself that if the hon. Gentleman were to telephone of State on this matter, so I am reading the report in the me, I would always be delighted to hear from him and way that anybody else might read it. It is of course would regard it as a matter of some priority to have a always open to Ministers to come to the House to make telephone conversation with him. Secondly, I think that statements, including to make apologies if they deem it I have made the overall position very clear and people appropriate. I have a sense already that it would be on the Treasury Bench will have heard it. What I am regarded by Members as more helpful in these saying, in short, is that if the Secretary of State has circumstances and perhaps more apposite if the relevant something to say to Members, he should say it here. If Minister were to seek to come to the House to make a he has something to say to me, he could usefully say it statement. I should emphasise that we have an important here and it would be a jolly good thing if he came to the Opposition day debate to follow, and that such a statement, House to make a statement at a suitable time—that is, if it were to be made today, would have to be made after at or shortly after 7 o’clock. the Opposition day debate. As for revealing matters to the media before revealing Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): On a point of them to the House, including revealing an intention to order, Mr Speaker. During his statement on Monday, in say something at a later stage, my ruling stands. If column 35 of Hansard, in answer to my hon. Friend the people have things to say, they should come to the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), House to say them. The House expects to hear before the Deputy Prime Minister indicated that the reason anybody else does. I hope that that is a satisfactory why he had not consulted the devolved Administrations response. about the parts of his constitutional proposals that affect the devolved Administrations of the United Kingdom was that it was necessary for him to announce them to Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con) rose— this House first. That was repeated today by the Prime Minister at Prime Minister’s Question Time. Will you Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for New Forest East confirm, Mr Speaker, that it is perfectly in order—on a (Dr Lewis) looks as though he is overflowing with Government-to-Government basis through the UK civil enthusiasm. I am quite concerned about him and I service, which exists for that purpose—for the Prime think we had better hear what he has to say. Minister or Deputy Prime Minister to discuss proposals affecting the devolved Administrations with Ministers Dr Lewis: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for on a ministerial basis prior to making an announcement your customary indulgence. Further to that point of to this House? In fact, in the case of Northern Ireland, order, is it in order for me to inquire whether the if they did not do that, one could not imagine the shadow Minister who raised that point of order informed consequences. the Minister concerned that he was going to mention him from the Dispatch Box on this occasion? Mr Speaker: I am very sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but although I listened with interest to his point of order the truth of the matter—he might think Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman may ask that. I do it a sad truth—is that it is not a matter for the Chair. not know the answer, but there is no breach of order if a Member comes to raise a point of order about someone else without notifying that person first. The hon. Gentleman Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab) rose— is a very courteous man—I will have known him for 27 years in October of this year—and he might well Mr Speaker: The day would not be complete without expect that as a matter of courtesy there would be a point of order from the hon. Gentleman. 389 7 JULY 2010 390

Chris Bryant: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure that you will be aware that the House of Commons Opposition Day Disqualification Act 1975 stipulates that only 95 Ministers, including Whips, may sit and vote in the House of [3RD ALLOTTED DAY] Commons at any time. In addition, “Erskine May” recognises only two kinds of Whips: Government Whips Jobs and the Unemployed and Opposition Whips. Until yesterday morning, only 95 Members were Ministers, but three additional Lib Mr Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected Dems were appointed as Whips yesterday. That takes us the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. to the number of 98. The Act makes it very clear that those additional three people cannot sit or vote in the 1.31 pm House of Commons—unless they are not Government Whips, but Opposition Whips. Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab): I beg to move, Mr Speaker: As always, I am engaged, not to say That this House notes with grave concern that the emergency fascinated, by the product of the hon. Gentleman’s budget will increase unemployment; calls on the Government to publish the HM Treasury analysis of jobs that will be lost in the lucubrations. I will look into the matter, but I am sure public and private sector; condemns the Government’s decision to that the House will eagerly await, with bated breath and axe the Future Jobs Fund, the YouthGuarantee and the Jobseeker’s beads of sweat on its collective brow, any thoughts that Guarantee, scrapping hundreds of thousands of jobs and training I may have thereafter. The appetite for points of order places for the unemployed; further notes that the Government is has now been satisfied. cutting employment support to help people into jobs at a time when growth is still fragile; regrets that the role of the voluntary sector in helping people into work is at risk; further notes that the current claimant count is half the level it was in the 1980s and 1990s as a result of the support and investment the previous Government provided for jobs and getting people back to work; further notes the cost to communities and the economy of long-term unemployment; and condemns the Government’s decision to abolish regional development agencies with potentially damaging consequences for regional economies at a time when the recovery is not yet assured. Mr Speaker, you said in response to the points of order that Secretaries of State are busy, but that it is very important that Ministers are accountable to the House. At 11.45 this morning, I took a call from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who is not in the House today. He rang to tell me that he would not be here today and that he would not answer the debate because he is speaking to civil servants. Instead of giving a speech to Parliament, he has gone to speak to a London conference for civil servants. He has decided that he cannot rearrange making that speech, despite the fact that he will speak at a three-day conference organised by the same civil servants who work for and answer to Ministers and advise them on the importance of answering to the House. So the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has chosen to turn his back on Parliament and the debate. A debate in Parliament on support for jobs and the unemployed is clearly not important enough for him. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling): Will the right hon. Lady confirm to the House that, during no fewer than three of the last six Opposition day debates held under the previous Government earlier this year, the Secretary of State in the previous Labour Government failed to appear in the House? Yvette Cooper: The right hon. Gentleman will know that, on many occasions, the then Opposition did not put up their shadow Cabinet Minister to open the debates. He will also know that Members have given reasons for not attending. I was ready to take the call from the Secretary of State, had he told me that he had a family emergency, a health problem or a European event to attend. The Minister has an engagement in Brussels, and I understand that he will therefore not be here for the close of the debate. I completely understand 391 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 392 that; of course, he must fulfil his international Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): On youth responsibilities. Of course, we recognise such responsibilities, unemployment, has my right hon. Friend noticed the but to choose to attend a three-day conference for the total absence of Liberal Democrat Members from this very hour in which the Secretary of State should be debate? Does she believe that they are unwilling to present in the House to discuss support for jobs and the come to House to defend their complicity in scrapping unemployed is a dereliction of his duty not only to the the future jobs fund? House, but to the unemployed he should be trying to help. Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend makes an important We think that this is an important subject. That is point. In fact, the welfare spokesperson for the Liberal why we have chosen it for our third Opposition day Democrats said that his party had no plans to cut the debate. This month, many young people will leave school, future jobs fund and, indeed, that it supported help to college or university, and they are looking for their first get young people into work. He is not here either, jobs. It is not an easy time to look for work. We have despite the fact that he is a Minister in the Department just come through the worst global recession for many that is responding to the debate. generations, and across Britain as in many other countries, In the ’80s and ’90s, the then Conservative Government many people have been hit by job losses and unemployment turned their back on the unemployed, particularly the as a result. young unemployed, and unemployment rose for years Next week, the June unemployment figures will be as a result. But unemployment scars. Unemployment published. The House will know that the International causes people problems for years to come. If people lose Labour Organisation unemployment figure currently their jobs and cannot get back to work quickly, they can stands at 2.47 million, more than 500,000 less than find it much harder to get back into jobs, even when the many experts predicted when the recession and financial economy is growing again. That is what happened in the crisis started and more than 500,000 less, too, than in 1980s. It took a long time to get new job growth in the 1980s and 1990s recessions. The claimant count is many communities across the country, and by the time 4.6%—less than half the 10% that it reached in the ’80s that we did, many people had been scarred for life and and ’90s recessions and almost 750,000 less than expected some have never worked again. in last year’s Budget, thus saving us £15 billion over the next few years. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab):Does my right hon. Friend share my fear that the problem basically is that Of course, those figures are too high, families are still the Conservative party believes that the only reason struggling and we need to bring down unemployment, people are unemployed is that benefits are too generous, but it is worth understanding why unemployment has that we do not need job-creation projects and that all been kept lower during this recession, because it reflects they need do is to cut benefits and, somehow, the work that businesses and employees have done to unemployment will magic itself away? protect jobs. People have been working fewer hours, often cushioned by tax credits—a cushion that Government Yvette Cooper: The troubling approach that the new Members now want to take away. To help to save jobs, Tory-Liberal Government are taking is to cut the help businesses have cut other costs. The fact that unemployment to get people back into jobs and to cut their benefits has been kept lower reflects the extra support for the when they cannot get back into work. The Secretary of economy—the VAT cut, the public sector construction State has claimed to be concerned about intergenerational contracts, the car scrappage scheme and the maintenance poverty and worklessness, but the truth is that many of of public spending and public sector jobs through the the problems that the Government worry about have recession—all opposed by the Conservative and Liberal their roots in the unemployment and hopelessness of Democrat parties. It reflects, too, the extra help to get communities without work in the 1980s. If they are people back to work faster than in previous recessions—the really serious about tackling long-term poverty, they youth guarantee, the extra education training places, should act to prevent long-term unemployment now. the stronger jobseekers’ regime run by Jobcentre Plus—all They talk about broken Britain, but the truth is that support that the new Government now want to take their party broke Britain in the 1980s and now they are away. trying to do the same thing again. Let us look at their I pay tribute to the work that Jobcentre Plus did actions in the first four weeks: cuts of £1.2 billion in during the recession to help as many people as possible support that was getting people back to work; cuts in to get back to work much faster than in previous the future jobs fund; cuts in the youth guarantee and in recessions, but this is a dangerous time. Too many help for the long-term unemployed just when they need people, especially young people, are still struggling to it most; and a Budget that cuts the number of jobs in find work. If we look at the lessons from history, we see the economy so that there are fewer jobs than there that this is the time when the labour market is at its would have been, not just next year but in every year for most fragile. This is the time, just as the economy is the rest of the Parliament too. coming out of recession, when there is most risk of people getting stuck in long-term unemployment. If we Mr Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): look at what happened in the 1990s, we see that it was a Many of the previous Government’s measures helped long time before unemployment started to come down some people into work, but the 3 million workless after the recession finished. Youth unemployment rose households where no adults of working age were working for 18 months after the recession finished. If we look at were barely touched in the Labour years. It is all very what happened in the 1980s, we see that unemployment well to talk about the 1980s, but what was happening rose for years after the recession finished. Youth between 1997 and the last election? Precious little. Many unemployment rose for four years after the recession of those people never saw anybody from Jobcentre Plus finished. or anyone else. They were just left to stew. 393 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 394

Yvette Cooper: I can tell the hon. Gentleman what Ministers try to claim that there are no cuts in these happened after 1997. In fact, there was a reduction of jobs. The Secretary of State said, 350,000 in the number of people claiming inactive “we are not cutting any jobs at all. We are saying that we will stop benefits as a result of the extra support that was put in. the part of the programme relating to jobs that were not contracted That was in strong contrast to the early ’90s recession for.”—[Official Report, 14 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 584.] when we saw an increase of more than 450,000 in the According to the Secretary of State, if the contract has number of people on incapacity benefits. In this recession, not been signed, it has not really been cut. He says that we have had a reduction of more than 70,000 in the these were only notional jobs. The trouble is that he has number of people claiming those long-term sickness not cut notional money. He has cut real money— benefits, despite the difficulties in the world economy. £290 million this year, and hundreds of millions of Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): One reason pounds in future years. That money would have funded why young people find it so difficult to get into work is 90,000 future jobs fund jobs for 90,000 people—real that they do not have experience, and the future jobs people who will struggle longer on the dole as a result. fund and the youth guarantee were very good for young people because they gave them that experience and Chris Grayling: Before the election, the previous made them much more employable. Has my right hon. Administration were planning public spending cuts of Friend done any analysis of the effect on these young £50 billion. Where did the right hon. Lady expect to people of the scrapping of both those schemes? make those cuts in the Department that she was then heading? Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right. She obviously brings great experience to the field, having been a Yvette Cooper: We were clear that the best way to cut member of the Select Committee on Work and Pensions welfare spending was to get more people into work. The for many years and she is now its Chair, and I look very fact of getting people into jobs was cutting £15 billion forward to hearing more of her views on this in the from welfare bills over the next few years. That is House. We have been talking to many young people substantially more of an impact than the right hon. about the impact of cutting the future jobs fund. Yesterday Gentleman could possibly have by cheese-paring bits afternoon, I met 10 young people who have just started from employment programmes that end up putting work, thanks to the future jobs fund. They are all more people on the dole and pushing up the bills for working for charities and social enterprises, have jobs in unemployment. That, in the end, is the right hon. fundraising, in office work, in organising charity events Gentleman’s problem. and in repairs and maintenance, and some had fantastic jobs in creative design. Several are graduates who had struggled to find work because of the recession. Many Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): had tried unpaid internships and voluntary work—anything Does my right hon. Friend agree that the pressures to get a foot in the door. It was only the future jobs fund placed on the private and public sectors in recent weeks that had made the real difference to them. One of them will deliver a potential skills shortage in the UK? Without said to me, “It’s a life-saver.” Another said, “It’s given investment in our young people today, we will have a me confidence. It’s a proper job. It’s a huge boost to put skills shortage tomorrow, which will be detrimental to this on my CV.” A young woman I spoke to in my our growth in future years. constituency who was training to be a car mechanic, thanks to the future jobs fund, told me, “I tried and Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right. This is about tried to get something, and this is just like the light at investing in our future, because this is about the young the end of the tunnel. In fact, it’s the only opportunity people who will support us all for very many years to I’ve been given. I don’t understand why they want to come. If we do not give them the start in life that they cut it.” need, if we do not give them the work experience that they need to get into jobs, if we leave too many of them Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): On that point, stuck on the dole for years, we will pay the bills that my right hon. Friend might be interested to know that a result from their being unemployed for years and we constituent recently came to see me at my surgery who will lose their potential skills and talents that could had been offered an opportunity to work through the contribute to our economy for many years to come. future jobs fund by the Royal National Institute of Blind People, and on arrival at Jobcentre Plus was Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): Is not the biggest bitterly disappointed to be told that the list was closed burden on the young people about whom the right hon. because of the Government’s decision to cut the future Lady talks so eloquently the massive debts that her jobs fund, and now faces the prospect of not having an Government left behind? They are already shackled by opportunity that would otherwise have been available. the previous Government’s policies, and that will be Is it not ironic that with all the talk of a big society, jobs burden on them and their employment opportunities that would have been available to people in the third for the future. sector are now being cut by the Government? Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right. This is happening Yvette Cooper: If those young people cannot get jobs, now to young people throughout the country. One of if they end up stuck on the dole for years—that is what the young women I talked to yesterday also told me happened to young people whom I left school with in about a job with the London Wildlife Trust. It had the 1980s—that will devastate their entire future. They asked her if she would be interested in working for it will struggle to get work for many years to come and through the future jobs fund, and when she contacted that will push up the deficit. The hon. Gentleman seems them to say yes, it said, “Sorry, too late. The programme to fail to understand that if unemployment is high, that is closed.” pushes up the bills for unemployment benefits and cuts 395 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 396 the number of people who are working in good jobs were jobs to support women in the community through a Women’s and paying their taxes, not just this year and next, but Refuge. Now those women won’t get the extra support and for many years to come. Yorkshire won’t get the extra jobs.” Real jobs in Yorkshire gone—because of the Secretary Richard Fuller: In my constituency, the unemployment of State’s plan! rate doubled under the last Administration. In the last 10 years, unemployment has gone up. We recognise in Miss Begg: It is third sector providers who often help Bedford and Kempston that we need small businesses to get people facing particular barriers into work. It is to create the jobs that will employ people, not just in hard enough for young people to get into work anyway, five years’ time, but in five months’ time. The one thing but if they have barriers such as drug dependency or that small businesses in my constituency want is to homelessness, it is particularly difficult. The future jobs know that the Government have control over the deficit, fund was being used by organisations such as Aberdeen that their taxes will be down, and that regulation will be Foyer in my constituency to get those marginalised reduced. Surely that is the way in which we can create youngsters into work and to break that cycle of poverty. jobs. The hon. Member for North East Hertfordshire (Mr Heald), who sits with me on the Work and Pensions Yvette Cooper: Unfortunately for the hon. Gentleman, Committee, made that point earlier. if we cut the deficit at the pace and scale that his party wants, that will make it harder for businesses. It will Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right, which is why make it harder for small businesses and companies all young people, no matter what the difficulties they across the economy. His party’s own appointed Office face, should have a guarantee of a job, training or for Budget Responsibility confirms that. It says that support to get into work. She might also be interested there will be fewer jobs in the economy, not just next to know that significant numbers of the people going year, but each year for the rest of this Parliament as a into the future jobs fund were disabled, so it was providing result of the Budget. It is hitting businesses and employers additional support for people who might have found it throughout the country, making it harder for them to more difficult to get their first job elsewhere in the take people on. That is the complete fallacy in the economy and to get that start and get into work. arguments of Conservative Members. They are stuck in The former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right the mentality of not just the 1980s, but the 1930s, which hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr Laws), told the House that says that so long as the deficit is cut, things will suddenly DWP officials had advised that the future jobs fund was be hunky-dory. It will not. It cuts jobs and makes it not effective and not working. That is not what young harder for people to get back into work, and it pushes people and voluntary sector providers are telling us. For up the costs of failure too. That is what is so irresponsible. example, the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations said: Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I “It is obviously very disappointing that the Future Jobs Fund have a lot of sympathy with the right hon. Lady’s is not continuing as it was a highly successful initiative which was argument and she is right to stress the fragility of the popular with employers and employees”. economic recovery at the present time and the fact that Angie Wilcox, whom I met, from the Manor residents’ the Budget proposals will cut jobs, but I am sure that association in Hartlepool, said that she is aware that the previous Government imposed cuts of £400 million on the devolved Scottish Government “in one area alone, manor residents have recruited 118 young people, of which the first 17 finished their six months last month, in the very teeth of the recession, knowing that it would all 17 secured sustained employment... This is a vital programme cost jobs and jeopardise recovery. If her argument holds that must stay”. water now, why did it not hold water then? So what advice did DWP officials really give to the Treasury? The Employment Minister, the right hon. Yvette Cooper: In fact, the additional support we put Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), has so in through things such as the future jobs funds and far refused to publish any advice or evidence that it is support for the economy helped Scotland. Indeed, Scotland not effective. That is because, in the end, he does not benefited from thousands of future jobs fund jobs, have any. He has commissioned a detailed evaluation of which were funded by the Government, in addition to the future jobs fund for 2011, so there is no evidence to the money that went directly to the devolved show that the fund is not working and plenty of testimony Administrations. Every part of the Government had to from young people and employers across the country make efficiency savings, and unfortunately the Scottish that it is transforming people’s lives. The Government Administration consistently set themselves efficiency did not talk to a single voluntary sector provider before targets considerably lower than those set and met in they axed the fund, and they did not talk to a single Whitehall Departments across government. It was fair young person on the fund before they made their to expect the Scottish Administration to pay their fair decisions—actually, the Prime Minister did. He talked share and to contribute to those efficiency savings. to young people at a social enterprise in Liverpool, and We believed, however, that it was right to keep supporting told them he would keep the fund. He said that jobs in Scotland through things such as the future jobs “it is a good scheme, and good schemes we will keep.” fund, which is why the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations said, in response to the cuts Was he setting out to deceive those young people, or in the future jobs fund: does he just not care about the broken promises from the election? “We know of many third sector organisations in Yorkshire who were ready to place people into jobs and were mid-way The Employment Minister has, I understand, been through bidding for FJF money to make that possible when the back to that same corner of Liverpool to see the same funding was cut. Among the placements that were to be created social enterprise. He has told us in previous responses 397 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 398

[Yvette Cooper] Nadhim Zahawi: I have to come back on that point. Your policies have mortgaged and remortgaged the that he has not received any representations about the future of those young children, so for you to stand up decision to cut the future jobs fund. Yet someone who and say that without borrowing you cannot sustain the was at the meeting said that recovery is inaccurate. You have to admit that borrowing “when Chris Grayling visited Everton on the 26 May we raised £500 million a day—not a week or a month—is with him the very negative impact cutting the Future Jobs Fund unsustainable. will have and 2 local people said the difference having a future jobs fund position was already having on their lives, their self Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. May I esteem and their long term job prospects... We asked him specifically remind Members to use the third person? When Members about whether his replacement scheme was going to give at least the minimum wage. He couldn’t guarantee that at all... The FJF refer to “you”, it means me. I have just been accused of has already made a big difference to us in Everton... Young a few things that I do not own up to. people on the FJF have got their heads back up and are going for it.” Yvette Cooper: The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon So what other excuses have the Government given us for (Nadhim Zahawi) should learn a few lessons from cutting the future jobs fund and the support for the economic history. He should look at what happened not unemployed? The Secretary of State claimed on 8 June just in the 1980s, when there was not the same scale of that the cost of the programme was “running out of world recession, but in the 1930s and at the orthodox control”. That is rubbish—it is a fixed-cost programme. views being put forward then by Bank of England It costs just over £6,000 per job and is paid when the job Governors and senior politicians and the devastating is delivered. Furthermore, the taxpayer saves six months consequences that they had. Keynes was led to write his of benefits too. It is a fixed cost, so it cannot escalate general theory because of the deeply destructive approach out of control. that so many people in senior positions took and the The difference between us is that we want 90,000 consequences that devastated the lives of millions of people in jobs. The Government would rather have people who were pushed into unemployment and poverty. them on the dole than pay for the extra support that Businesses were destroyed for many years as a result of those young people and long-term unemployed need. that approach—the approach that the Conservatives So, from next year, they are cutting the rest of the seem to want to go back to. guarantee. In total, they are cutting £1.2 billion from I agree that borrowing needs to come down, and of support for the unemployed—and they tell us it is all course we need to ensure that the deficit comes down in right because there is going to be a Work programme. a steady and sensible way as the economy recovers. But where is it? The soonest the Secretary of State will However, by cutting an extra £40 billion for ideological be able to deliver it is next summer, but what about the reasons in a way that will hit jobs and the economy, the people in the meantime who need support and help? Conservatives are turning their back on the unemployed. What about the young people leaving school, college or Ministers need to tell us what they will do to help young university this summer and need help? What about the people this summer. What are they going to do to people who have been unemployed for six months and reassure parents that their sons and daughters will not who need support now? Yet it is now when he is cutting be stuck on the dole for more than a year? All that they future jobs fund opportunities in favour of a Work promise is a Work programme sometime in the future, programme that cannot be in place for at least another with incentives for private sector companies to help 12 months. people find work but no guarantees to young people or anyone else that they will actually get work. There are Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con) rose— no jobs for them to go to. Yvette Cooper: I shall give way. Perhaps the hon. Ministers also want people to move house to help the Gentleman can provide some clarity on that point. labour market, but it is not clear where they want them to move to. The Secretary of State has said that he Nadhim Zahawi: The right hon. Lady talks about the wants the unemployed to move to more affluent areas young people coming out of schools and colleges. Did where there are more jobs. In fact, if they do not and she think about them when she was in government and they are out of work for a year, their housing benefit borrowing £500 million a day? Did she think about will be cut. At the same time, the Government are their future while the Government were borrowing £100 telling working people on housing benefit in affluent for every £300 they were spending? areas that they have to move to cheaper areas because Yvette Cooper: Had we not increased borrowing during their rents are too high. If they do not, their housing the recession, we would have seen recession turn into benefit will be cut, too. The Secretary of State is telling slump; we would have seen millions of people on the my constituents that if they do not move south to get a dole being scarred for life; and we would have seen huge job he will cut their benefit, and his own constituents increases in repossessions. Unless the hon. Gentleman that if they do not move north to get a cheaper home he is prepared to support the economy and growth, he will will cut their benefit too. Presumably they can wave at never see the deficit come down. The best way to get the each other as they pass somewhere along the A1. deficit down is to keep the economy growing, and the The Secretary of State wants people to give up cheaper only way to get us through the recession was to support housing to find work, but he also wants people to give the economy at a very difficult time. He seems to want up work to find cheaper housing. He is telling people to to return to the madness of the 1930s when economies get on their bikes, but with no clue about where they are across the world were pushed into depression and slump supposed to go. That is the same Secretary of State who as a result of the kind of narrow-minded, short-term said last year that he wanted to maintain community policies that he is now advocating. ties. He said: 399 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 400

“It is getting more and more difficult for parents in some Esther McVey: I think there needs to be clarity of poorer backgrounds…that extended family link is often severed purpose on a way forward; you have left us with a by the fact that they can’t get living near their parents.” record deficit—[HON.MEMBERS: “She.”] Sorry; the right Yet those are the very same community ties that the hon. Lady’s Government have left us with a record Government’s policies on employment and housing would deficit, and new times require new measures. Working rip up right now. They are cutting help for people to get together, we will provide clarity and look for greater jobs and cutting their benefits too. apprenticeship schemes.

Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Does my Yvette Cooper rose— right hon. Friend agree that the Government’s contention appears to be that the future jobs fund is simply training Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Will the without a job guarantee? Is that not just snobbery, as right hon. Lady give way? they do not put forward the same argument—and nor should they—that people accessing degrees should have Yvette Cooper: I advise the hon. Lady that asking me a guaranteed job outcome? Quite simply, is it not true to give way and answer another question when I have that the Tories have never believed in parity of esteem not yet answered the first is probably not the best way to between vocational and academic training routes and get her question answered. still believe that unemployment is a price worth paying? I ask the hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) where is this Work programme and this extra Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right. I know that support? All that we see so far is £1.2 billion-worth of his constituency was hit very badly in the 1980s as a cuts. There are cuts to the future jobs fund, a programme result of the decisions that previous Conservative that is already in place and delivering real opportunities. Governments took, and that that is why he feels so She should go and talk to the voluntary sector providers strongly that we should not take those decisions again. in her constituency and constituencies across the country We have to do everything possible to help people back about the great work that they are doing. Social enterprises, into work. charities and organisations in the public and social sectors are doing some great things to give young people The Guardian has even reported that Ministers want a chance, and her party wants to pull the plug on that. jobcentres to give out charities’ food vouchers, so now That would be madness at a time when young people they are turning the clock back not just to the 1980s but need our help. to the 1930s. It is looking less like welfare to work and more like welfare to the workhouse. Sarah Newton: I wish to return to the right hon. Lady’s point about giving out food vouchers. What is Miss Begg: Before my right hon. Friend moves off compassionate about a benefits system that is leaving the subject of housing benefit, I wish to mention that people hungry in their hour of need? Voluntary Aberdeen is one of the areas where there are jobs— organisations in my constituency, such as Church unemployment in my constituency is 2.6%, which is organisations providing food banks, are barred from higher than we would like but relatively low. The problem offering vital necessities to people in jobcentres who are is that rents are high. A constituent came to see me on literally starving. That is ridiculous when people are Friday who is finding things very difficult, because in going hungry. the private rented sector she is already subsidising her rent despite being on full housing benefit. It is therefore Yvette Cooper: I am interested that the hon. Lady is impossible for people to move into Aberdeen to get a concerned that people are not getting enough support house and a job without falling foul of the Catch-22 and believes that they should have more help. I wonder situation that my right hon. Friend describes. why on earth, then, she has voted for a Budget that cuts £11 billion from benefit support for those on the lowest Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right, and that is income in the country. What she is arguing for are cuts why it is difficult to reform housing benefit without in Government and taxpayer support, and for people considering the consequences for the labour market. simply to depend on charities instead. That would be a The two things should be examined together, not in return to the Victorian approach of the workhouse and isolation in a way that can have destructive consequences. the pre-Beveridge, pre-welfare state approach of not supporting families across the country, which would be deeply unfair. There may not be the type of charity that Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): May I confirm she happens to have in her constituency in every that the matter has nothing to do with snobbery but is constituency and working with every jobcentre in the about the best way to handle the situation? Can the country. We in the Labour party believe that we should right hon. Lady confirm that at present, the number of support people, which is why we have not proposed 18 to 24-year-olds not in education, employment or cutting benefits by uprating them only by the level of training is at its highest, at 837,000? the consumer prices index, which will take £5.8 billion out of the value of benefits for some of the lowest-income Yvette Cooper: If the hon. Lady is concerned about people in this country. young people who are not in education, training or employment, why on earth is she supporting her party’s Chris Grayling: Can the right hon. Lady confirm to decision to cut the future jobs fund and help for young the House that before the election, she did not at any people to get into jobs? The number of 18 to 24-year-olds stage give serious consideration to increasing benefits in who are on the dole is about half the level that it was in line with CPI? Can she make it clear once and for previous recessions. all—did she consider that or did she not? 401 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 402

Yvette Cooper: I can say very clearly to the right hon. survey of major private sector employers found that Gentleman that my view was always that it would be none was planning to increase recruitment on a large unacceptable to increase benefits in line with CPI. I scale just because the public sector was cutting back. wish to make that very clear, and I am sure that papers Arriva said: will testify to that effect. It will be unfair on people such “We are not planning a recruitment drive any time soon. as those who are severely disabled or on the lowest Everybody is watching their costs at the moment.” incomes, who will see the real value of their support cut Today’s KPMG survey found that the number of new by hundreds of pounds over the next few years. For the recruits is at a seven-month low, just at a time when it Minister to try to defend the Budget as “progressive” should be increasing. Business confidence has been hit when it will hit people who are severely disabled and by the Budget and the austerity approach that the cannot work, people who are on carer’s allowance and Government have been pursuing. some of the most vulnerable people in the country who The Government have abolished the regional may be struggling to support their families, is a distortion development agencies, which were supporting jobs in of the meaning of the word. the regions, and cut Building Schools for the Future Welfare to work does not work anywhere in the and other capital projects that were supporting construction country if there is no work for people to go to. That is jobs. The Government are hitting jobs in the public the real tragedy of this new Government. At a time sector and the private sector, all at a time when the when growth is fragile and too many people are out of economy is still weak. They say that this is unavoidable, work, they have introduced a Budget that cuts growth but that is simply untrue. They do not need to cut and jobs. It is shocking. £40 billion extra from the economy; they have chosen to Even on the assumptions of the Government’s own do so, even though that will cut jobs and hurt the appointees in the Office for Budget Responsibility, this unemployed. The Government do not need to cut the emergency Budget means that there will be more than help for the unemployed that is getting them into jobs; 100,000 fewer jobs in the economy, and not just this they have chosen to do so, even though it will increase year. There will be fewer jobs every year for the lifetime long-term unemployment. They do not need to push up of the Parliament as a result of the Budget. The Budget the costs of unemployment; they have chosen to do so, cuts consumption, through the VAT hike and benefit even though that will cost us more. They do not need to cuts; it cuts Government spending; and it hits private scar young people for years to come; they have chosen and public sector jobs. The Budget will also push up the to do so, just as they did in the ’80s and ’90s. bills of unemployment. Even on the optimistic assumptions Why are the Government doing that? It is because of the Office for Budget Responsibility, the taxpayer they say that they have to get the deficit down. Why are will fork out around £2 billion on unemployment over they introducing a savage Budget to cut the number of the course of this Parliament as a result of the Budget. jobs in the economy? They say that that has to be done That is £2 billion that we could have spent on the future because of the scale on which they want to get the jobs funds, school buildings or other support to help deficit down and the pace at which they want to do it. In people into work. the 1990s, the Conservatives said that unemployment was a price worth paying to get inflation down. Now Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): Does the right they are saying that unemployment is a price worth hon. Lady agree that that is merely the thin end of the paying to get the deficit down. However, unemployment wedge? Many of the young people who find themselves is not a price worth paying; unemployment will stop the unemployed and many of the communities where deficit coming down. This year’s school leavers will pay unemployment is ingrained are also more reliant on the price, our young people will pay the price, and we other benefits and public services such as health. The will all pay the price for many years to come. Unemployment mental health and well-being implications for those is not a price worth paying. It is time that the Government communities are enormous, but they have not been ditched the failed ideology of the 1980s and the 1930s, factored into those calculations. and supported jobs for the future. That is what our party will do, and I commend the motion to the House. Yvette Cooper: The hon. Lady is right. We are having this discussion in the light of the Budget measures and 2.14 pm the initial cuts in support for jobs, but we know that there are spending cuts to come as part of the spending The Minister of State, Department for Work and review, to which the Government have added £17 billion Pensions (Chris Grayling): I beg to move an amendment, to the amount to be cut from Departments. The to leave out from “House” to the end of the Question consequence is that the Government’s policies will keep and add: more people on the dole, not fewer, and more people “welcomes the emergency budget which will tackle the unprecedented out of work, not fewer. That is what the Budget does, legacy of debt over the next five years by reducing borrowing and that is on an optimistic reading, because we know from a projected £149 billion this year to just £20 billion in 2015- 16; notes the Office for Budget Responsibility’s projection that the Treasury’s real assessment is worse. that unemployment will fall in every year of this Parliament as a The only reason why the Government think that result of the Government’s policies to stimulate private sector employment will be growing at all is that they are employment by reversing the damaging increase planned for counting on around 2.5 million net jobs being created in employer national insurance contributions, introducing a £1 billion the private sector over the next five years. However, that Regional Growth Fund, reducing the corporation and small profits tax rates and increasing the Enterprise Finance Guarantee, is something that John Philpott of the Chartered Institute resulting in the creation of a projected two million new private of Personnel and Development and other respected sector jobs by 2015-16; further welcomes moves to implement a economists have said is simply unrealistic. The Government single work programme that will provide personalised support to are living in cloud cuckoo land. In fact, the Financial Times help people move into sustained employment, to introduce a 403 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 404

£1,000 increase in income tax personal allowances which will no apology. What we need is this Government to incentivise work, to reform the benefits system to ensure that sort out the mess that the previous Government left work pays and to provide 50,000 new apprenticeships and 10,000 behind. new university places for young people, thus stimulating growth, delivering jobs and creating a fairer society for all.” Chris Grayling: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, May I start by passing on the apologies of my right and I would ask the House this question. Why would we hon. Friend the Secretary of State to the House? Despite take Labour Members seriously on youth unemployment what the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract when they had such a terrible record on youth and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) said, he has an important unemployment over 13 years in government? What we job to do in helping to lead our public sector out of the saw from Labour in office was at best incompetence, at mess in which the previous Government left it, and he worst a wilful disregard for taxpayers’ money, and a has an important leadership role with the people who failure to understand how to create long-term sustainable will help him to do that. I am sorry that the right hon. jobs in the economy. Lady is disappointed to be debating against me this afternoon. I am rather pleased, frankly, to be debating against her and I was impressed by her lively form. I Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Has the right somehow think that the wrong member of her household hon. Gentleman made any estimate of how unemployment is running a Labour leadership campaign. will increase because of his Government’s policies? Listening to the right hon. Lady, one would think Chris Grayling: We have taken a decision—and rightly that the past decade had been one of economic triumph so—to push out of Government the job of economic and effective employment policies, and that the previous forecasting. That is the purpose of the Office for Budget Government had left behind a golden legacy of wise Responsibility. Its analysis, independent of Government, and effective policies. Well, they did not. What they left is that unemployment will fall and that employment behind was an economic hangover that we will all be levels will rise as a result of the decisions that we have dealing with for years to come, and I am not referring taken in the Budget. That is the direction in which we just to the huge deficits or the huge planned spending should be heading. cuts that Labour had lined up. Indeed, one would think from listening to her this afternoon that the previous Those in the previous Government cannot simply Government had no plans to cut spending. Actually, blame the recession for this mess. Despite 10 years in the opposite was the case. What they did not do was power, even before the global banking crisis started, give us any detail whatever on where that money was more than 15% of our children—1.75 million children— going to be saved. lived in households where no one worked. We have one of the worst rates of workless households in the EU. If we look back over the previous 13 years, the story I am therefore delighted to take on the right hon. is a pretty sorry one, with 400,000 more unemployed Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford on people today than when Labour came to power in 1997, employment today, and to remind the House and this a higher level of young people not in education or country what a terrible record the previous Government employment, and a lower proportion of people in work. had in their 13 years in office. Over that period, Labour spent billions of pounds on projects to try to get people back into work. They spent There were fewer jobs in manufacturing. We have billions through the recession on supported programmes, heard a lot of talk today about the 1980s, but let us be but things have actually got worse. What we on the clear: the big drop in manufacturing employment in this Government Benches know is that long-term sustainable country and the big slump in the proportion of economy jobs are created by the private sector, not by Government taken up by manufacturing took place under the previous schemes. Labour Government, between 1997 and 2010. Labour should be ashamed of the previous Government’s Even when jobs were being created over that decade, calamitous record on supporting manufacturing business Labour completely failed in its mission of trying to get in this country and creating a regulatory environment people into work. Large numbers of people managed to that drove so many firms out of business and overseas. come into the UK from overseas and find jobs, yet The previous Government constantly missed their targets through the years of Labour Government, we consistently on apprenticeships. We heard again and again of how had some 5 million people stranded on out-of-work they were going to deliver hundreds of thousands of benefits. Many of them could have worked and many of apprenticeships, but they never hit their targets. They them should have worked, but under Labour it just spent massive amounts on employment programmes— never happened. So much for “Things can only get designed in Whitehall but ineffective in practice—and better”. they left the biggest deficit in our peacetime history. After all those promises about ending boom and bust, Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): Labour finished with the longest recession in the western A particularly poisonous legacy of the previous world. Government and their economic failure was the plight of young people. We now have 1 million young people Toby Perkins: The right hon. Gentleman mentioned who are NEET, but even before the credit crunch came, that some programmes were ineffective. One of the there were as many people NEET at the end of that programmes that he has cut is the future jobs fund. I period of economic growth—albeit unsustainable growth, tabled a written question about that for his Department, as we now find—as there were when Labour came to but it was completely unable to tell me how many jobs power. The previous Government let down young people, had been created in my constituency. As the Department scarring them for life. We now have 1 million young obviously does not know whether the future jobs fund people unemployed because of Labour, yet we have had was successful or not—it is too early—and as it is 405 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 406

[Toby Perkins] development that an apprenticeship would offer, is a poor relation compared with the programme of unable to provide any evidence that it was not, why does apprenticeships launched under this Government. the right hon. Gentleman not just admit that cutting the scheme was a decision made for ideological reasons Mr Lammy: I know that the right hon. Gentleman is rather than because it was not working? an educated man. He has said that the country is in a recession. Is it not axiomatic that, in recession, private Chris Grayling: What we sent to the hon. Gentleman companies tend not to invest in employment? The purpose in the written answer was the details of the future jobs of the future jobs fund was precisely to create employment fund placements in his area. We have to be careful with in the public sector, because the Government had leverage taxpayers’ money, and it would therefore not have been over the public sector. prudent to collect data down to constituency level. However, the information is there for him to see, and Chris Grayling: But the way that we will create long-term when he looks at those data, he will see that the success jobs for the future will be to revitalise and energise our of the future jobs fund in creating jobs has been consistently private sector. The reality is that the Labour party went below target all the way through. into the general election campaign promising to increase Let me lay to rest one myth today. We have not the tax on employment and to make it more expensive stopped the future jobs fund. Tens of thousands of for the private sector to employ people. How can the additional places will be created over the next few right hon. Gentleman think that that is a route to months under the future jobs fund. We have said, long-term sustainable growth and opportunity for however, that we need to take tough decisions in the employment in this country? light of the mess left behind by the previous Government. Also, by next spring, we will be bringing on stream the Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): May Work programme, which we believe will provide long-term I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there will be a support for those who are looking to get back into job guarantee with the 50,000 placements that will be work. I shall say a bit more about that in a moment. arranged under the apprenticeship programme? Also, where is the logic in making people wait so long? There Mr Heald: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the are still many unemployed people in my constituency. overall picture of Labour’s employment schemes shows After someone has been unemployed for six months, that they helped into work the people with the highest the private sector will treat them as long-term unemployed. levels of skill, and people aged between 25 and 49, and How can it be right to leave people waiting until next that a vast population was simply left behind that could spring before giving them something to work on? not compete with the people who were coming into this country and taking the jobs that were on offer? Chris Grayling: I know that the hon. Lady is a new Member, and she might not be aware of the changes Chris Grayling: My hon. Friend makes an important made by the previous Government. One of the things point. What we learned from the new deals was that they did was to extend the period that people had to people were simply cycled round and round. They went wait before they could receive support on employment through the system again and again because they were programmes. In the case of young people between the not placed in sustainable employment. That is one of ages of 16 and 25, the period was extended from six the problems with Labour’s approach. months to 12 months. I agree with her that things needs Let me tackle the issue of the future jobs fund head to happen sooner, and one of the things we will do in on, because we have heard a lot today about Labour’s the Work programme is to give that support sooner. flagship scheme. Around 100,000 future jobs fund jobs The coalition Government are committed to supporting are still being created under the current scheme, costing people in sustainable employment, providing opportunities up to £6,500 each. As the right hon. Lady said, most of that will provide skills, open doors and help people to them are in the public and voluntary sector. I could be stay in work. Our goal is not to get people off the wrong, but my idea of sustainable employment is not a unemployment register temporarily, but to work with six-month work placement in the public and voluntary them to achieve a goal of lasting employment. That sector. It is about getting people into long-term roles in means plotting a different course. The same tired old the private sector, which can provide a long-term career policies will not work. For too long, economic growth for them. That is why our emphasis has been on creating in Britain has been unbalanced, driven by the accumulation apprenticeships, and 50,000 new apprenticeships have of unsustainable debt and a bulging public sector. We been created in a very early move by this Government. have been forced to deal with the largest public spending deficit in peacetime history, and the crisis in the eurozone Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): Is it not insulting has shown that the consequences of not acting are to people who work in the voluntary and public sector severe. to imply in this House that those are not real jobs? Would the right hon. Gentleman like to withdraw that Yvette Cooper: I have heard what the Minister is last statement? saying, but how does he account for the fact that, in 2012-13 and 2013-14, employment will be 110,000 lower Chris Grayling: That is not what I said. The right as a result of his Budget than it would otherwise have hon. Gentleman clearly was not listening. A six-month been, according to the assessment of the Office for work placement in the public and voluntary sector with Budget Responsibility? If there are fewer jobs in the no guarantee of a job offer at the end of it, and no economy, how on earth does he think young people are certainty that the role will involve the kind of skills going to get more of them? 407 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 408

Chris Grayling: If the right hon. Lady looks at the exists when people are out of work. When I listen to figures, she will see that the OBR is forecasting an Labour Members talking about unemployment, I simply increase in employment of 1.5 million jobs in the wake remember their record over the past 10 years, and those of the Budget over the next few years. My goal, and the 5 million people who have consistently been on benefits. goal of this Administration, should be to ensure that as Next year, we will launch the Work programme to many of those jobs as possible go to people who are on provide a coherent package of support for people who benefits, many of whom have been on benefits long are out of work, regardless of the barriers that they face term. The big mistake of the past decade when jobs or the benefits that they claim. We will end the programme were being created was that that simply did not happen. complexity that we have seen over the past decade, and replace all the paraphernalia of programmes with a Yvette Cooper: Again, I ask the right hon. Gentleman single, integrated package of support. It will not be a to confirm the OBR’s forecast that, as a result of this one-size-fits-all scheme, however, because we have had Budget, employment will be lower. Before the Budget, it too many such schemes from Whitehall. We will trust forecast 29.47 million jobs in the economy for 2012-13; the professionals on the ground who deliver back-to-work after the Budget, it forecast 29.36 million jobs for the support to find the right way of delivering that support same year. Will he confirm that the consequence of his to individuals. We will look to investors in the private, Budget will be to cut the number of jobs in the economy? public and voluntary sectors to provide the support, and we will judge the organisations that participate on Chris Grayling: The right hon. Lady has continued to their success rate. operate on the basis that the public sector could somehow remain as it was, and that we could carry on spending John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): the same amounts of money. She does not seem to Of course I want whatever new scheme the Minister understand the consequences of carrying on with the comes up with to succeed, but does he share my concern same level of deficit. They would include higher costs about the possibility that the private contractors whom for business and higher interest rates. We can see the he wants to employ will charge more for their services consequences in the eurozone of not getting to grips because the changes the Government have made in the with the deficit. We are interested in creating long-term, Budget will result in fewer jobs in the economy than sustainable employment, which is why we want to deliver there would otherwise have been? schemes and support that will encourage the private sector to grow and develop. That will not happen if we maintain a deficit, however. Chris Grayling: That is not my concern. My concern is to ensure that, if the OBR forecasts are correct and Yvette Cooper: But will the Minister confirm that the we see employment growth amounting to 1.5 million reason for the lower number of jobs forecast for 2012-13 more jobs in the next few years, we do not make the is that the private sector will have been hit by the same mistake in government as the hon. Gentleman’s consequences of his Budget? party did and fail to get people off benefits and into work to take those jobs. I do not want to see a steady Chris Grayling: Last week, the right hon. Lady was and unchanging level of millions and millions of people criticising us for theoretically planning job reductions on out-of-work benefits over the course of a decade in the public sector. She cannot have it both ways. We while jobs are created around them, effectively operating cannot have an increase in employment, a fall in outside our mainstream society. That must change. I unemployment and a fall in public sector employment want opportunity for those people. I want to see them without the private sector beginning to take people on back in employment. I am sure the hon. Gentleman again. This might be a point of difference between us, shares that goal, but what we aim to do is make it and I can accept that, but I believe that, over the next happen this time around. 10 years, we shall need a successful, flourishing private sector that can create sustainable jobs. I am sorry that Miss Begg: I am sure the Minister is well aware that the Labour party appears to be reverting to type in the increase in the number of people claiming incapacity believing that the public sector can somehow carry it benefit is a result of mental health problems. He may all. This is a point of difference between us, but I believe also know that, in response to most surveys, 60% of that we will not create opportunities for those young employers say that they would not employ someone people unless we have proper, sustainable private sector who has had a mental health problem. How will the employment. Government solve that conundrum?

Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) Chris Grayling: The hon. Lady has made an important (Lab): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? point, which I am sure her Committee will want to address. In fact, I was going to refer to the work Chris Grayling: If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I capability assessment. These are important issues, and would like to make some progress. we clearly face a big challenge. There are 2.2 million We will introduce radical reform and follow policies people on old-style incapacity benefit, and we must do that will encourage growth and development in the all we can to help as many of them as possible to return private sector. We will also radically reform welfare, to work. Of course, not all of those people will be able with a real focus on helping people to find sustainable to work and many will need to continue to receive work. We will reform the benefits system so that work unconditional support throughout their lives; but every pays. We will tackle endemic worklessness and the organisation I have ever worked with, come across or intergenerational cycles of disadvantage that it creates. talked to that works with people with disabilities and We will halt the tragic waste of human potential that long-term sickness problems would like to see more of 409 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 410

[Chris Grayling] series of commitments it could not afford and a series of plans that involved short-term solutions to its political them back at work. We all believe that work will help problems, rather than long-term solutions for the individuals those people, and I am determined that this part of the concerned and for our country. We need a fresh approach, Work programme will make a huge difference to them. which is why we believe so strongly in focusing on apprenticeships rather than the future jobs fund. Toby Perkins rose— Apprenticeships provide an opportunity to learn new skills that are actually valued by employers. They give Chris Grayling: I will give way once more, but then I people a chance to learn a trade and to embark on a really must make some progress. career, while also improving productivity and developing a talent pool. A Labour Member mentioned skills. I Toby Perkins: I am grateful to the Minister, who has happen to believe that a well-run apprenticeship is a raised the important issue of people on incapacity much better way of giving someone a platform for life. benefit and the large number of people with mental That is why we are spending £150 million on a programme health problems. Given his belief that the solution to involving 50,000 apprenticeships that can make a difference. those problems lies in the private sector, is he aware of many private sector employers who are rushing to employ Rushanara Ali rose— people with a history of mental health problems or with a serious history of incapacity problems? Chris Grayling: I will give way once more, but then I must wind up my speech so that others have a chance to Chris Grayling: The key to supporting people with speak. mental health problems and other disability issues is winning the confidence of employers, and the role that Rushanara Ali: May I ask once again whether there can be played by providers—whether in the private or will be a job guarantee for those 50,000 apprentices? the voluntary sector—in forging relationships with My question was not answered when I asked it earlier, employers. I believe that as that relationship strengthens, and it is the kind of question to which my constituents as people start to obtain work placements and as employers want an answer. There is no point in people joining start to work with some of those who have been on those programmes if there is no opportunity for them incapacity benefit, employers will become more ready to get jobs when the programmes end. and willing to provide extra opportunities. I have no doubt that many businesses in this country Chris Grayling: We intend to continue the young want to do the right thing. I believe that, in general, person’s guarantee until the launch of the Work programme. members of our society recognise that we cannot go on However, there is no guarantee of a job at the end of with the same number of people stranded on incapacity any programme. The programmes are intended to create benefit. I am confident that if we get the programme opportunities for employment. None of the last right and deliver effective back-to-work support for Government’s programmes involved a guarantee of a those people, the opportunities will be there and will job at the end. The best we can do is to ensure that grow as time goes by. I know there is consensus across people are as work-ready as possible, and then try to the House on this proposal. We came up with it originally, provide an environment in which jobs are being created and the previous Government adopted it. Now we are for which people can apply. taking it forward, and we will work hard to refine the work capability assessment to ensure that we get it right. I look forward to working with the Select Committee Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab) rose— and the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Miss Begg) to achieve that. It is fundamentally important that we Chris Grayling: I said last time that I would give way actually make a difference to those people, about a only once more, but I will give way to the hon. Lady quarter of whom have claimed incapacity benefit for because I have not done so before. Then I must make more than 12 years. That has had a devastating impact progress and wind up my speech. on the people themselves, and it is a burden we have had to carry as a society. We must do all we can to help as Alison McGovern: I am grateful to the Minister. It is many as possible of those people to make something fantastic that in my part of Wirral we saw a tenfold better of their lives. increase in the number of apprenticeships between 1997 All that, of course, is in addition to the support that and 2008. Does the Minister agree that the best thing will continue to be provided by Jobcentre Plus. I agree we can do with apprenticeships—we all agree they are with the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract vitally important—is not to try to rewrite history or cut and Castleford that its staff do a first-rate job, which in our way out of the recession, but to try to build business recent years they have done under great pressure. I am confidence so that investment in apprenticeships continues glad that that work is recognised on both sides of the in my constituency and others? House. Our package of reforms is not just about getting Chris Grayling: One of the disappointing things about people into a job, and it is not just about saving money; the last Administration was that we kept hearing the it is all about helping people to make more of their lives. then Prime Minister make promises about numbers of We have heard so much from the Labour party in recent apprenticeships. Year after year, we looked at how many weeks about its policies and how they would have made had actually been delivered, and saw that they never hit all the difference, but I do not buy that; I do not think the target. I hope we will not make the same mistake, they are right. What we inherited from Labour was a and I believe that the 50,000 apprenticeships we have 411 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 412 announced will make a difference to a large number Labour rhetoric of the past. They seem to believe that people who will take them up as part of the Skills for what we need is big Government to create jobs, and if the Future programme. we spend just a bit more all will be well. That is nonsense. We know that we need flourishing businesses Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): Will the Minister if we are to create jobs for the future. We know that we give way? need the right skills and technologies for the future. We also know that we need to ensure that everyone in our Chris Grayling: No; I am going to wind up my speech society has the chance to find the right opportunity for now. themselves. We heard some of those messages from new I want to end by making a point about the overall Labour in its heyday, but they never actually happened. context of our proposals. We are trying to create an We are all paying the price now. This Administration environment in which business can grow, develop and will not make the same mistakes that Labour made. flourish. The Budget was about that as well. The Chancellor announced measures to stimulate growth, including a reduction in the main rate of corporation tax and the 2.40 pm rate of corporation tax for smaller companies, a reduction Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): I was unable to in the main and special rates of capital allowances, an intervene on the Minister of State on the role that big increase in the enterprise finance guarantee, the creation firms will play in creating the jobs of the future. I of a growth capital fund, and the regional support with wondered whether he had seen the survey by the consultancy which we intend to help private sector employers to and accountancy firm Deloitte which concluded that grow and develop in our regional areas. We also stopped big firms fear that a new recession will hit the UK. It the Labour jobs tax. All those measures are designed to said that business confidence has been knocked, in large create an environment in which small, medium-sized part by the shroud-waving and fiscal hysteria from the and larger businesses can grow, develop and create jobs Conservatives in creating the mood music for this draconian in the next few years, and they have all been welcomed Budget. The survey of finance directors from 32 FTSE-100 by business groups. companies and 93 UK companies accounting for 28% of the equity market showed that the net percentage of Yvette Cooper: Will the Minister give way? those who were more optimistic had dropped from 40% to 24%. Chris Grayling: Oh, go on. The hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) made a point about small business investment, but businesses Yvette Cooper: I thank the Minister for his generosity need confidence if they are going to invest in the future. in allowing me to intervene again. He referred to support They will not invest in creating the jobs of the future if for the private sector and for private sector growth. Will they are worried that this deflationary Budget, which he confirm that according to the OBR’s own assessment, will knock 1.3 million jobs out of the economy, will in 2012-13 private sector employment will be 260,000 leave them high and dry. The money that they would lower than it would have been under Labour’s Budget? otherwise invest could be kept for a rainy day or a potential future run on the bank. Chris Grayling: When will the right hon. Lady recognise that the Labour Budget was not affordable? It was John Howell (Henley) (Con): The hon. Lady says that taking the country down a path we could not afford. We what business needs is confidence. I do not disagree, but have seen in the eurozone what happens if nations try to most of all business needs money. It was her Government do things they cannot afford. Labour Members keep that deprived people of the money to make their businesses going on as if nothing had happened—as if all would work. somehow have been swimmingly good if they had returned to office, and all the problems would have been sorted Mary Creagh: That is an extraordinary allegation—that out—but it is not like that. Labour Members are living somehow the Labour Government took money away in a fantasy land, but the reality is that business groups from businesses. I thought that it was the banks— welcome what we have done. [Interruption.] There was a failure of regulatory oversight, Richard Lambert, director-general of the CBI, has but it was not just in this country. It happened across said: the world. In future, economic historians will look at “There was clear recognition of the role that business needs to the psychological group-think that prevailed across the play in getting the economy back into shape, and generating the world in all Treasury departments. There was an economic jobs and wealth needed to sustain economic recovery.” orthodoxy that the level of growth was sustainable. In The British Chambers of Commerce has said: the end, the bubble burst and it was not sustainable, but “The government’s decisive moves to cut the deficit will have we made the decision not to allow the collapse of a positive effects on business and investor confidence. Even more bank to mean that people lost their savings. importantly, the Chancellor’s message that Britain is open for We also decided to follow the Keynesian route back business will be welcomed by companies the length and breadth of the country, and across the globe.″ to employment. For those Members on the other side of the House who are unaware of Keynesianism, I recommend That is what we need to do to create the environment in an excellent article in The Independent, by Robert Skidelsky which Britain is a good place to do business again, and who was Keynes’s biographer. He is no left-wing madman: in which jobs are being created. he is a sensible and respected economist. He has an It has been interesting to listen to Labour today. To interesting analysis of the Budget that makes sobering be honest, it has been like a Westminster version of reading, and I recommend it to all hon. Members of “Life on Mars”. Suddenly we are back to the old whatever party. 413 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 414

Mr Graham Stuart: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for Mary Creagh: My hon. Friend makes a good point giving way. As ever, she speaks with passion if not on and many skilled IT workers and other professionals this occasion with quite so much knowledge. Business is will lose valuable public sector contracts as the so-called struggling because when the economy was booming bureaucratic back-office functions are scaled back. and it was necessary to curb the lending of the banks, One of the ways in which the Minister proposes to the Labour Government did the opposite and loosened help the unemployed is by laying off 2,000 jobcentre the conditions for lending. After the collapse, the Labour staff in the next few months. It takes a particular sort of Government did the opposite and tightened the genius to do that in a recession, and I bow to the greater requirements on the banks so that they were unable to knowledge of the Conservative Members. How will lend. That is how the Labour Government both fuelled they help people back into work with fewer people on the boom and boosted the bust and that is why business the front line? is struggling so much to recover from Labour’s disaster. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con) rose— Mary Creagh: I am so grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that basic lesson in economics. He may not be aware Mary Creagh: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman: of my past working as an adviser to small businesses perhaps he can tell me. and to MBAs at Cranfield university on how to set up small businesses. Our economic record between 1997 George Freeman: I thank the hon. Lady for giving and 2005 was extremely good when it came to ensuring way to the greater prowess on this side of the House. I that new businesses were created—[Interruption.] Would appreciated her comments earlier about the importance he care to listen to my answer or does he just want to of the private sector. The fundamental truth in this keep commenting from a sedentary position? He claims debate is that the private sector does something that the that we turned the tap on too fast and then turned it off. public sector does not—it pays for the public sector. It It is understandable that when Governments end up pays for itself and its profits pay for the public sector. owning majority shares in banks, they want to ensure The hon. Lady nods, which is nice to see. As she worked that credit flows to businesses—and we ensured that in the private sector helping small businesses, does she that was happening through the small firm loan guarantee agree that the biggest fear of people in the private sector scheme. Now, the banks are almost in a monopoly is not cuts to the public sector, but the threat of a rising position, and we need more competition for high street debt crisis with interest payments alone—now she shakes banks and to change their risk aversion when it comes her head—forecast to rise to £67 billion a year? The to lending to small businesses. effect that that would have on the sovereign debt crisis We are straying from the point, which is the effect of and the threat of rising interest rates could plunge this the Budget on unemployment. The OBR has had an country into a serious economic crisis. extraordinary few weeks. It was set up and has published its little forecasts, but now suddenly Sir Alan Budd—who Mary Creagh: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his set it all up—is to leave. I have been in politics a few point. We are in danger of rehearsing the arguments years now and when someone leaves unexpectedly, I try that we had at great length on the Finance Bill last to work out why. Why is it that someone in a brand-new, night. I chose not to speak in that debate, because start-up situation who wants to perform a public service otherwise it might have dragged on even later than it is leaving? I wonder whether there has been a row. did. However, I do not think that someone running a Perhaps in the future we will find out the real reason— corner shop in south Wales is worried about the interest perhaps that he was leant on for the employment figures, payments on Government debt. Interest rates on which are heroically optimistic. The OBR claims that Government debt are historically low, and the repayment more than 2 million jobs will be created in the private period here for such debts is, at 14 years, longer than in sector over the next five years, but John Philpott, the the US and Greece. chief economist at the Chartered Institute for Personnel Government Members need to be very careful about and Development, has said: the shroud-waving that they have done in connection “There is not a hope in hell’s chance of this happening. There with the Greek fiscal deficit. The UK is in no way would have to be extraordinarily strong private sector employment comparable to Greece, which is an island economy growth in a…much less conducive economic environment than it based on tourism—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member was during the boom.” for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) listens, he The hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness might learn something. Greece has 178 different public (Mr Stuart) says that we funded small businesses through sector pensions, and none of them is funded. In addition, the boom, but the OBR and the Treasury now claim matrilinear succession means that the wife inherits when that we will have a similar level of employment growth— a man dies, and that the daughter inherits when the another boom—but there is no credit to finance it and, widow dies. Trying to compare Greece to the UK is by the way, they are cutting huge amounts out of the absolute madness. public sector. I will give way if any Member opposite can tell me how that will happen. I thought not. George Freeman: Will the hon. Lady confirm first of all that I did not mention Greece? She has mentioned pensions, but the second thing that concerns the private Mr David: Does my hon. Friend agree that in many sector is unfunded public sector pension liabilities, which areas, including south Wales, there is a close relationship also saddle the private sector economy. She seems to between the public sector and the private sector? Draconian talk as though the public sector can somehow carry on cuts to the public sector will have knock-on effects on spending money, but it is the private sector that has to the private sector. pay for it. 415 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 416

Mary Creagh: In the end, we all end up paying for it. and have been taken up almost entirely by the public We made pension reforms to try and get people in the and charitable sectors, they do not provide future jobs? private sector to enrol in pension funds, because companies I have spoken to several charitable organisations in in that sector tend not to pay pensions or enrol their Gloucester, just as she has in her constituency. They staff in stakeholder pensions. As a result, the taxpayer—the have got people doing things very similar to what she state—picks up the bill and we all end up paying for it. has just described. They make the same points that she The important point is that the state is, in the end, the does, but they recognise that these are not apprenticeships. lender and the funder of last resort. They are different: they do not provide jobs, but really just take people off the unemployment register for six Mr Graham Stuart: Will the hon. Lady give way? months. Mary Creagh: I will not take any more interventions, as this debate is turning into another Second Reading Mary Creagh: The point is that they are entry-level of the Finance Bill and I want to talk about unemployment jobs. The future jobs fund takes people off the and the future jobs fund. unemployment register for six months, but the important In my constituency of Wakefield—which is well known thing is that those people then have a CV that does not to my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, say, “I’ve been on the dole and I don’t know how to get Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper)—700 places up in the morning. I don’t know how to set an alarm were allocated under the future jobs fund. We are not because no one’s ever taught me. I’ve got used to staying clear how many have survived the Government’s hatchet in bed till half past 10 and then watching daytime TV.” job, but I was privileged to welcome 50 young recruits Instead, their CVs say, “I’ve been doing something to Wakefield council. productive and am able to get myself to work. I’m committed and I’ve developed my communication skills.” In addition, with my right hon. Friend I met three future jobs fund recruits at the Able project, an The young people involved may have failed at school environmental scheme that uses a piece of disused land and may not be academically successful. They need owned by Yorkshire Water that lies next to a sewage every chance that they can get: they may need a series of treatment works. One could not hope to find a less six-month placements to build up two years’ worth of glamorous environment, but the project has created experience, because it may take them much longer to something very beautiful. Its organisers have worked enter the employment market than someone with an with Nacro and the mental health trust to get people Oxbridge degree. digging, growing, learning and being out in nature. The land is between a sewage works and a railway line, but it Several hon. Members rose— is an area of environmental beauty. The project has become a green business, coppicing the hazel and willow Mary Creagh: I have not finished, but I will give way that grows there. to the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham). I met two young workers there, and we were able to buy some of the honey that they had made. They told Richard Graham: Does the hon. Lady agree that a me that they had had an apprenticeship but that the real apprenticeship that lasts three years, like the 50,000 collapse of the business meant that they could not carry new apprenticeships that this coalition Government are on. After six months on the dole, they were desperate to committed to providing, is a much more genuine gateway get something. to a real job than a series of six-month benefits and My right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, training programmes that has no real guarantee of Pontefract and Castleford and I made the visit in March, leading anywhere? and the young workers told us that they did not know what was going to happen at the end of the six months. They asked us to try and make the period a year, as that Mary Creagh: I think that we should have both. I do would mean that they had a year’s experience under not think that 50,000 apprenticeships will be enough; their belts. One young man was working visiting schools nor do I think that cutting Peter to spend money on and showing children how to build nesting boxes. Paul is a fair way to allocate resources. The Able project is run by a third sector organisation, but I was aware that, at the end of his time there, the Steve Rotheram: I am a product of something similar young man I had spoken to would have carpentry skills to the future jobs fund. In the late 1970s, there was and experience of working with children. He was going something called a pre-apprenticeship scheme. I did six to have all sorts of facts about nature and growing months on that and was very fortunate to complete it. things at his disposal, with the result that a range of The scheme was not just academic, as it gave me some different organisations in the area could employ him. transferable skills. It taught me to get out of bed and it led me, in later life, to do a master’s degree in contemporary I feel really heartbroken that that young man, the urban renaissance. That is the sort of opportunity that person whom I also met who is a support worker at the future jobs fund is providing. Reconnect, a project that befriends older people across Wakefield who are at risk of isolation, mental health problems and loneliness, and the three people for whom Mary Creagh: I thank my hon. Friend for that I was trying to find work as wardens in Thornes park, intervention. He truly is a renaissance man, and I hope are all now facing an extremely uncertain future. that many of the young people whom we met who got their entry-level work through the future jobs fund end Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Does the hon. up sitting on these green Benches. I hope that they can Lady agree that one of the challenges for the future jobs make the same incredible progress and journey that he fund is that, because the placements last only six months has made in his life. 417 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 418

[Mary Creagh] to hear these plans emerge. Let us consider the position of an organisation 90% of whose budget depends on I turn now to the Work programme set out by the public sector contracts. Organisations are planning next Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, year’s budget now. They will be signing off budgets that the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris need to be ready in February and the finance directors Grayling). I have a great deal of concern about it. In a will be making those budgets ready in October, November speech on 27 May, the Secretary of State spoke about and December. How will such an organisation make “a single scheme that will offer targeted, personalised help for plans for 90% of its funding—that could be £35 million, those who need it most, sooner rather than later”. or £37 million at 2005 prices—without knowing what If it is a matter of sooner rather than later, why are we the system and financing mechanism will be for voluntary waiting until next year for it to come in? I suppose that sector bodies? If the right hon. Gentleman is to grant that has to do with the fact that the Government want the voluntary sector privilege, will he not be in danger to set up what I presume is a national contract with of doing something about which we have heard a lot—will large-scale training providers. I tried to intervene about he not be risking crowding out the private sector? I shall this earlier, because the Government are asking those leave those thoughts hanging in the air. providers to bear the risk of training people even though Rathbone training works with teenagers who have their contract payments will depend on outcomes. had chaotic homes lives and who have encountered That raises a series of questions. First, at a time when poverty and unemployment. Many of them have failed deflation, very low growth or even a double-dip recession at school and many have had babies early in their lives. are all possible, why does the Minister think that the Rathbone carried out a survey of those young people, private sector will turn to the banks for loans to cover asking them which profession they would like to pursue. this training given that, as we heard earlier, the banks Everyone in the Chamber will probably be relieved to are averse to risk and not very good at lending? Output- hear that only a handful wanted to be footballers, pop related funding is currently calculated on the basis that stars or WAGs. Instead, the majority of Rathbone it takes six or nine months to get a person into work and trainees preferred more everyday jobs such as car mechanic then 13 weeks to ensure that he or she has lasted in that or office worker. That was summed up by a 17-year-old job. Why does he think that organisations in the private lad from Newcastle, who said: sector such as Capita or BT will line up to take on the “I’m happy at the moment training to be a bricklayer.” massive risk involved in training people and employing I just hope that he has a job to go to in the construction them, when there is such a huge amount of uncertainty? industry when he finishes his bricklayer training. On the I have another question for the Minister, and I will current prognosis, I am sceptical about that happening. give way to him if he can answer. How does he think I am concerned about the incapacity benefit reforms voluntary sector organisations such as Nacro—the National and the assertion that such a one-size-fits-all approach Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders— will be better. Why will it be better than programmes will be able to do this? Such organisations have specialist run by people in the public sector? I am not so sure that programmes working with the most difficult, hard to it will be. I am concerned that we are going around in a reach and disadvantaged people—prisoners, young circle—we are going back to the 1980s, as my right hon. offenders and ex-offenders. They have the benefit of Friend the shadow Secretary of State said, and back to being present in and running training courses in prison the 1930s. We are going into the failed Thatcherite and are then able to offer some sort of continuity when schemes of the 1980s—a youth training scheme mark 2. the offender leaves it. I am also thinking of providers In the current plans, however, there is no enterprise such as Rathbone training, an organisation that I had investment scheme—and that did exist in the 1980s. We the privilege of serving as a trustee for seven years. have heard a lot about the need for a vibrant and These are small-scale organisations—Rathbone’s turnover flourishing small business sector, but these reforms when I left it in 2005 was £40 million. Why does he contain nothing, as yet, that allows would-be entrepreneurs think that they will go to the bank—or their trustees in constituencies such as Wakefield and Normanton, would say that they should go to the bank—and borrow Pontefract and Castleford, as well as those in Liverpool, up to £20 million at a time, with a personal guarantee, to set up their own businesses. I hope that the Minister, jointly and severally liable, of the trustees for a programme who is no longer in his place, will examine that. when it is not clear that they will get the rewards from it? Mr Graham Stuart: Does the hon. Lady regret the Chris Grayling: I am happy to intervene briefly to devastating effects on manufacturing of the past 13 years confirm two quick points for the hon. Lady. The first is under the Labour Government? Does she have any that, as she will recognise, this is an established marketplace thoughts on what can be done to encourage manufacturing? that has grown. What we are talking about, in particular, This is not just about construction and other private is scale as a result of the incapacity benefit migration. sector jobs, because we need to restore and rebuild We are pushing the envelope further than it has been manufacturing, which was growing in the last few years before, but established principles are involved. She is of the previous Conservative Government but has been right about protecting voluntary sector organisations. I devastated during the past 13 years under Labour. would be making another speech if I explained the full detail of how to do that, but I can assure her that I Mary Creagh: I can perhaps turn the question around regard those organisations as important as she does. on the hon. Gentleman by asking him whether he regrets what happened to cities such as my birthplace of Mary Creagh: I am relieved to hear that, but I am Coventry, where I grew up in the 1980s. All the car afraid that that was not an answer and I am unable to factories that I grew up around—the Massey Ferguson wait for another speech from the right hon. Gentleman tractor plant, the Carbodies taxi plant and the Alvis 419 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 420 plant, which used to make tanks, and the Coventry overcrowded accommodation? How would seeing people Chain Company—were all replaced, either by housing coming in from outside and getting houses affect them? or by retail parks. The factories were all shut down Would any such provision have to involve a minimum during the short few years between 1984 and 1989, time that someone keeps a job? Would people have to when thousands of incredibly skilled workers in those stay in their job for three months, six months or a year? factories were lost. In addition, does he regret the fact If they lost the job after 12 months through no fault of that the previous Conservative Government shut down their own, could they keep the house or would they be the coalfields of Wakefield, which could now be doing expected to make the long train journey, or the long car something to reduce our dependence on foreign energy journey back up the M1, to the city that they left? supplies? I shall leave that matter for another debate. I conclude by discussing unemployment and what it I am concerned about the effect of benefit cuts on means to Opposition Members. For us, unemployment women. I am keen to hear from Conservative Members is not a theory, an abstract thing or a thing that has to about the move to employment and support allowance be tackled. For us, unemployment is what happened to and to jobseeker’s allowance. A little piece in the Red our families, friends, communities and, in the recessions Book says, “After you have been on JSA for more than a of the ’80s and ’90s, ourselves. I say to Government year, your housing benefit is cut by 10%.” I am keen to Members that, on the idea of the big society, our society hear from the Conservative Front-Bench team whether is not broken. Over 13 years, our Labour Government women with children—these children may be only a spent a lot of time, energy, money and thought trying to year old—will be affected by that proposal. If they are mend the broken society that Thatcher and Major affected, that is an incredibly draconian policy. bequeathed us in 1997. I have no problem with women who have children In 1979 there were 1 million people on the dole, and going out to work. I am a mother of two children and I the Conservative party won that year’s election with the came back to work here when my child was six months posters of unemployment queues and the slogan, “Labour old. I have no problem with encouraging mothers to get isn’t working”. Three years later, 3 million people were out of the home and into the workplace, and expecting on the dole, a level of unemployment that had not been them to begin the search for work when their child is seen since the depression of the 1930s—a particular three and has access to the free nursery place is very type of genius that the Conservative party has in pursuing important. The idea that one can say to a mother with a flawed and deflationary economic policies. babe in arms, “You have to put the baby into child care I remember, during my childhood, coming down to and go out to look for a job otherwise your housing breakfast and hearing the figure for the number of cities benefit will be cut by 10%” is, as my right hon. Friend where riots had taken place in 1981, and I could not the shadow Secretary of State said, a return to the believe the amount of places where people had Victorian values of the workhouse and the notion of spontaneously gone out and created mayhem and anarchy dividing the poor into two segments: the undeserving because they were tired of being left behind. I remember poor and the deserving poor. I leave that thought with the songs, such as “One in 10”, about the one in 10 hon. Members. unemployed, and the song about my city of Coventry, I shall now discuss the issues associated with people “Ghost Town”. It was a ghost town. That is how I grew moving house to find work. I have no problem with up, and I do not want any child or constituent of mine mobility, because people should look around, think and to grow up in a ghost town. Opposition Members will open their horizons in the search for work; my parents continue to focus on unemployment, because, as my are Irish and they came to this country on the boat—not right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract on a bicycle—in the 1960s, finding gainful employment and Castleford said, for us it will never be a price worth in Birmingham and then Coventry, where they settled paying. and got married. However, we need to examine carefully the psychological impacts of asking people to leave Several hon. Members rose— their homes to look for work. One of the great untold stories of the Irish diaspora is the psychological impact Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. This is an important that emigration has on the mental health, the alcohol Opposition debate, and I want to give some gentle dependency and the level of premature death of a guidance. Hon. Members will be horrified to learn that particular community. The Irish are the only community we cannot go on until half-past 2 in the morning today, whose life expectancy decreases upon emigration to this and that we intend to call the winding-up speeches at country. That is perhaps a little known fact, and I can about half-past 6. If everyone wants to get in, and if see the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness people speak for wildly longer than 12 minutes, not (Mr Stuart) is thinking it through. everybody will be satisfied. That is what happens when people move away from Also, I love interventions, which I think help the their communities, so it is very important that we ensure debate, but if they become mini speeches fewer people that we have the structures in place so that people can will get in. So, if we show some restraint, that will be be supported if they want to move. I would turn the very welcome to the entire House. question around by asking another one. Let us consider what would happen if someone from Wakefield or a 3.12 pm high unemployment area wanted to move in order to work, found themselves a job in London and went to Mr Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): one of the city centre local authorities, such as Hackney, The House appreciated the passion with which the hon. Camden or Islington, asking to be put at the top of the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) put her case, but housing waiting list. What would that do to the Islington, if she were being frank she would accept that, in the Camden and Hackney residents waiting to get out of 1960s, 1970s and, again, in the 1980s, this country faced 421 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 422

[Mr Oliver Heald] scientific, it is minus 6; in social care, it is minus 8; and in training, it is minus 15. In the north-east—my area—the some difficult economic problems. If she looks back at salary index has also fallen, so fewer jobs are being the history of interventions in the job market, she will advertised for less money. see that since 1979 we have tried various options. Indeed, there has been some success in putting people back into Mr Heald: I think the hon. Gentleman is wrong, work by using employment-market interventions, but I because the headline figure shows an increase of 5% am sure that in her heart of hearts she will accept that over the past six months, but he is right about the we have let many people, particularly during the past differences between sectors and regions. He makes an 13 years, fall by the wayside. important point, which we should not ignore, and I The people who were getting jobs through Labour’s shall return to it later in my remarks. However, Sir John employment schemes had skills or were in the age Rose’s point was also well made. On the question of bracket of 25 to 49 years old. Many other people what needs to happen in this country, the role of became part of that workless group whereby 3 million apprenticeships should not be ignored, and 50,000 more homes have no adult of working age in work at all. apprenticeships are welcome, particularly given the good Those people were not seen on programmes, and very quality of education that they provide in technical few of them were seen at all, so we need to consider a areas. programme that really challenges that situation and In the latest CIPD survey, there is a lot of criticism of looks to provide the help that people need in all aspects the abilities and work-readiness of our graduates, and of work. Too many schemes have been based on just there is a lot to be said for schemes such as internships, one benefit: if people were on one particular benefit, which get people ready for work so that they can do a there was a scheme for them; and if people were from good job as soon as they enter employment. I represent one age group, there was a scheme for them. However, North East Hertfordshire, and a good thing about we need something that captures all the issues and Hertfordshire is that we, as a county, have a series of removes all the barriers to employment, so that everybody institutions that are business-facing but educational. gets a fair deal from the Government. Our colleges are business-facing, and our university is There are some encouraging signs in the labour market. well known as business-facing, which means that the The Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development’s county asks businesses what skills they need and our latest quarterly survey shows for the first time in six university provides the skilled workers. In terms of the quarters a plus 5 figure for the employment intentions employment service in Hertfordshire, if a graduate who of employers: they do intend to employ people. The is placed with a Hertfordshire company needs an extra figures for the south-east are particularly good, showing skill, our university will teach them it, and our colleges a strong intention to employ. Equally, Reed in Partnership, all feed into that. It is no coincidence that we have the an excellent contracting company, has shown that the lowest number of NEETs in the country. number of advertised vacancies is up by 5%, so there are some encouraging signs. However, the real question Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): Teesside is whether the increase in private sector employment university, the university of the year, is basing itself in will be enough to deal with the undoubted fall in public my constituency, and I am quite interested in the hon. sector employment and the likely redundancies there. Gentleman’s idea about graduates not being prepared That is the challenge for the next few years—to ensure for the workplace. Will he please identify exactly when that private sector employment increases sufficiently. in the history of university education employers said, At The Times CEO summit last week, Sir John Rose, “All our graduates are prepared for the workplace”? chief executive of Rolls-Royce, one of our best companies, When was that golden age of preparedness? was reported to have said that we as a country were very self-satisfied about the services boom in the Labour Mr Heald: The hon. Lady makes an extremely good years, but that during that time manufacturing capability point, which is that we are not good enough as a and competitiveness were on the slide. He noted that in country at preparing people for work. If we look at why higher education we are educating 7,000 people a year we have so many workless families, and why employers in media studies, at a time when China is educating are dissatisfied, it goes right back to the beginning—to technicians and people who will have skills in the nuclear school. The fact is that 40,000 young people leave industry. He rightly said that during that period we did school every year in this country who cannot read, write not concentrate enough on investment in technical education and add up properly. It is not good enough that we do at the secondary and tertiary levels, and that we need to not have the technical people we need in business coming address that issue if we are to have a future of success in through. This is a failure of the whole system that needs the private sector. to be addressed. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady chunters, but Sir John Rose is probably one of the most eminent Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East chief executive officers in the country, he is running a Cleveland) (Lab): On Reed in Partnership’s job index, company that is a great success story, and he is right to the hon. Gentleman mentioned the figure for growth, highlight the need to do better on technical education on which the organisation comments in its press release, and skills. but that growth is predominantly in financial services, Over the years, we have had a range of employment accountancy and insurance. The index also states that, programmes that have not succeeded as well as we compared with February, the figure for this month in would have hoped. A few years ago, the Work and charity and voluntary work is minus 30 index points; in Pensions Committee looked into what contractors can construction and property, it is minus 7; in engineering, achieve. We did a major report on how the Department it is minus 8; in health and medicine, it is minus 19; in for Work and Pensions commissions employment 423 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 424 programmes and the role of prime contractors. We were probably better—namely, more apprenticeships. It is a encouraged by the international examples. We looked at bit disingenuous to describe it as a jobs fund, as though what had happened in Australia and visited the Netherlands these are permanent jobs when they are really job to look at what was being done there. That seemed to placements for six months. show that contractors were able to provide programmes more cheaply, but also to get better results. Professor Tom Blenkinsop: Speaking of disingenuous elements, Finn, who was advising the Committee, found that the Government’s amendment refers to Australia was achieving, through “contractorisation”, “policies to stimulate private sector employment by reversing the an improvement of about 10% in job readiness and damaging increase planned for employer national insurance people’s ability to find placements. In the Netherlands, contributions”, we were told very strongly that the people who ran these which implies that that was a jobs tax. Is it not really the contractor companies were able to specialise provided case, particularly for the north-east, as I have been that they were given enough flexibility in respect of the advised by the North East chamber of commerce and barriers to employment that there have been and still the Federation of Small Businesses in the north-east, are. that the real jobs tax is the VAT increase that the Looking at the picture overall, I have reached the Government have proposed? view that as soon as a person is not working, and we are Mr Heald: If the hon. Gentleman thinks about when aware of that, they must be interviewed to find out what we got 2.5 million extra jobs in our economy in a the barriers to employment are that they face and start three-year period, he will recall that it was under the to tackle them. If somebody has basic skills problems, Conservatives in the 1980s. That was done by allowing we need to get on to that at an early stage and tackle businesses to have lower taxes and to be less regulated—by it—and equally, if somebody needs child care or has a really giving them a boost. We need to do something problem with addiction. These are all areas where action similar to help business and to get off its back. We also is required. In relation to the work capability assessment need to provide the technical training that Sir John for incapacity benefit, a lot of people have not been Rose talks about, together with a scheme that helps the seen for many years, and the on-flow that has been workless—the people who have been left behind in the examined so far seems to suggest that many of them are plethora of employment schemes that we have had for capable of doing some kinds of work, but not necessarily the past 30 years. all kinds. Those people need considerable help. If we are to help people who have the classic problems Tom Blenkinsop: What about 1979? suffered by those on incapacity benefit—musculoskeletal problems such as back injuries, and mental health problems Mr Heald: If the hon. Gentleman looks back at the such as stress, and worse—it is very important to get in mess that this country was in when the Conservatives with an early intervention. More can be done by employers, came into office in 1979 after the Labour years, he will the NHS and the system as a whole—including, perhaps, see that it was not an easy period to be in government. the companies that provide insurance for people who He must accept, surely, that if we can improve on what are unable to work—in getting together to see whether has gone before, then that is the best thing to do. We they can do more to get this help in quickly. It is not need to listen to somebody who is a thoughtful CEO acceptable that somebody of working age who has a saying that we need better technical training; to look at back injury and needs physiotherapy has to wait 10 weeks the idea of apprenticeships as good-quality training, for an appointment whereas if they were seen quickly which we all agree about really; to try to have internships they could get back to work. I ask the Minister whether so that our graduates are job-ready; and, on top of that, it is possible to have liaison and discussion with the to have a Work programme that does not leave anyone NHS, employers and insurance companies to try to do behind, that is streamlined, and that involves contractors better in getting involved more quickly and stopping sooner rather than later. Surely that is the wisdom of some of these conditions becoming chronic in the first our time. place. With back problems, that means physiotherapy; Tom Blenkinsop: Interestingly, the majority of men with mental health problems, it may mean talking therapies and women on site in the steel and chemical industries as well as the drug treatments for depression of the sort in my area are in either their late teens or early 20s, or in that are available these days. their late 40s or early 50s, which suggests an 18-year Yesterday, I talked to people at the National Ankylosing period when apprentices were not taken on. Spondylitis Society, who said that all too often they have to wait a long time for the treatment they need to Mr Heald: The hon. Gentleman is right that in periods deal with their condition. For people of working age, of our history, both sides of industry have not distinguished we need to prioritise their health and have something themselves in supporting apprenticeships adequately. I amounting to a national occupational health approach do not know whether he agrees with that, but now is the so that we do not end up with a lot of people who time to do the right thing, and to support apprenticeships become chronically ill. It is well known that someone and technical education. We need a scheme that works who has been out of work with a disability for two years on the Work programme side, and hopefully this country is very unlikely to work again. can come roaring back from the mess it was left in by the previous Labour Government. I welcome the Work programme. The criticisms that have been made of it are a little unfair, if I may say so. The fact is that the economy has been put into a terrible 3.28 pm situation by the previous Government. The future jobs Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): It fund is a scheme that has only just started, and it is not is a pleasure to follow the contribution of the hon. as though it is not being replaced by something that is Member for North East Hertfordshire (Mr Heald), but 425 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 426

[Gordon Banks] Gordon Banks: I will address that in greater depth and detail in a few minutes, but the right solution is a I want to talk about the construction industry and my joint public and private sector solution. The solution constituency, and I am sure we will come across other cannot be driven by one of those alone—it is not an related matters. I refer the House to my declaration in either/or question. the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The housing sector enjoyed some useful periods in I was involved in the construction industry for more recent years, prior to the recession. When it delivered than 30 years before I was elected to the House in 2005. large profits for many developers, it also delivered jobs Frankly, I am shocked at what has happened in the in our economy. The sector was a driver for the economy, industry in the past few years, and I greatly fear what but the current situation in the private house building will hit us in the near future. I started my own business sector is absolutely desperate. There were 40,000 home in 1986, so I have weathered a few storms, but I fear that loans in April 2010, which, if projected over a year, the future has something terrible in store for the industry. would be fewer than half a million. If that is the annual If it is bad for the industry, it is bad for jobs. figure, it will be the lowest since 1974, yet the need for housing is ever growing, as the hon. Member for Beverley In the past few years, the construction and housing and Holderness (Mr Stuart) pointed out. Our desire to sectors have contracted massively. With that contraction own our properties continues to grow, and we should in activity has come a contraction in the number of encourage such aspirations. jobs. When the banks went into meltdown, the previous Government reacted appropriately. There was action to To generate jobs in the housing construction sector, protect investments and to support failing banks, and we need to increase the number of higher loan-to-value genuine attempts to get money back into the marketplace. products, and as such reduce the 25%, 30% and 35% Although that proved a little more difficult than I deposit demands from the mortgage industry.The mortgage would have hoped, that positive action saved jobs. However, products that were on offer before the recession were now we risk all that effort. unsustainable, and we had the ridiculous situation of lenders lending 125% of the value properties. Everybody It was necessary for the public sector to step in when has responsibility for that—the Government, lenders the private sector failed—let us not forget that that is and borrowers—but I am concerned that the cuts in what happened. My background is in the private sector, interest rates in the past few years have not been passed and I am proud of the UK’s private sector—or at least on to mortgage deals. That is stifling the market, and part of it. It should be a driver of growth and the major therefore costing jobs. Although interest rates are an contributor to addressing our budget deficit, but how issue, the loan-to-value ratio is the main problem. will that happen when the private sector remains very fragile and the public sector is faced with ill-thought out, ideological cuts? Catherine McKinnell: Does my hon. Friend share the concern that a constituent of mine raised with me this The construction sector is a good example of that. weekend? He and other young people he knows who The industry has some 250,000 businesses and employs work in the public sector in Newcastle are all in fear of more than 2 million people in the UK, with turnover of losing their jobs. They had planned to move house, but about £6 billion. We had the second largest output in they have put that on hold because of that fear, and the European Union—I do not know whether we still they know that many of their contemporaries are in the do—and we all know the role that the industry has same situation. There is a real worry of great damage played in the UK’s progress in recent years. It is a being caused to the housing market, particularly in my private sector enterprise, but its clients are both public region. and private sector. Businesses generally need the construction sector to expand, as does the state, when Gordon Banks: That is very well put. It is a real they are intent on improving the quality of life of problem and so, too, more broadly, is the effect of citizens. public sector cuts on the private sector. That will stop There are vital sub-sets in the construction sector. the private sector growing and providing the jobs and Construction product companies have annual turnover profits that the Conservatives expect it to create to get of more than £40 billion and employ more than 650,000 us out of the mess we are in. people in 30,000 companies. In Scotland, almost 12% of We need to get to a sustainable level of 90% loan-to-value the work force are employed in construction or in some mortgages to generate jobs in the sector, but it does not form of building-related activity, whether as a joiner on stop there. If someone buys a new car they put fuel in it, site, a planner in a local authority office or a lorry driver and because of efficiencies it is probably a lot less than delivering materials to a building site. Sadly, that is they had to put in their old car. However, people who changing for the worse. All those jobs are under threat. buy a home spend additional money. Ask any retailer and they will say that they need a buoyant housing Mr Graham Stuart: One great mystery of the past market, both new and second hand, for the high street 13 years is that there were record levels of immigration to be a busy place. Home buyers purchase carpets, under the Labour Government and record lows in the furniture, white goods, televisions, curtains and more. number of houses built, particularly affordable housing This is therefore the one industry that directly feeds the units. I do not know the explanation for that, but I spending of considerable sums of money into other would be interested hear whether the hon. Gentleman, sectors. with his background in construction, has any thoughts In 2007 there were 357,800 first-time buyer mortgages, on how we can increase the number of housing units in and the Halifax produced data that suggested that the this country, so that we can tackle homelessness and cost of furnishing and equipping a new property is boost the construction industry, jobs and employment. about £6,000, so that equates to about £2.14 billion of 427 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 428 high street spend from first-time buyers alone. If we but in a more targeted way. Reducing VAT to 5% on the multiply the original figure by the number of people in labour element of home maintenance repair and each property purchase chain, we see that the true improvement work could, as argued by Experian, create amount of high street spend might be double or three an extra 55,000 jobs this year alone. What the Government times more. In short, support for jobs in the housing are doing will cost jobs. The views we have heard today sector is delivered by the availability of appropriately about job growth are not shared by the Federation of priced mortgages, but that is lacking today. Master Builders, which argues that 7,500 jobs will be Turning from housing to construction, I supported lost in SMEs in the construction sector this year alone the last Government’s commitment to bring forward as a result of the VAT increase. When the multiplier capital spending projects, and I should pay tribute to effect is taken into account, the effect on small and the councils in my constituency and the last Labour medium-sized construction companies in this year alone Scottish Executive, who delivered six new secondary could be the loss of between 23,000 and 25,000 jobs. schools in recent years, and the health board, which has There is another cause for concern. If firms go bust, delivered a new community hospital. I am also grateful close down and lay off workers, they will be in no for the introduction of rail services to Alloa and the position to train apprentices for the future. new Clackmannanshire bridge. All those projects were started under Labour. They Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The hon. Gentleman are now finished, and because of the failure of the mentions the construction industry, which I think is Scottish National party’s Scottish Futures Trust there is relevant to all hon. Members in the Chamber; it is nothing coming along behind them to match the brick- certainly relevant to the area I represent. Does he agree for-brick commitment we have been given. We heard in that the Government should try in particular to help the House just this week about the Government’s plans those aged 50 and over who have worked in the construction for the Building Schools for the Future programme, industry all their lives? They cannot get jobs anywhere damaging our infrastructure, not giving children the else and find it hard to retrain. best possible start and throwing people on to the scrap heap in what might be called the triple whammy. We Gordon Banks: I do agree, but I would much rather need to invest in our infrastructure. Doing so improves see them retained in the construction sector. There is a the infrastructure, improves lives and creates jobs. strong argument that the construction sector can drive economic growth in this country, and I would like the We also need an active home improvement market, Government to take that forward. but I fear that the recent announcement of the 20% VAT rate will decapitate what was beginning to look As I said earlier when I intervened on my right hon. like a possible lifeline to the industry. The loss of Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and 1.3 million jobs will not help either, but let me first deal Castleford (Yvette Cooper), if we do not deliver skills with the VAT effect. Many Conservative Members derided learning for apprentices today, we will have a skills the effectiveness of the last Government’s reduction of shortage in future and that will have an economic the VAT rate to 15%. They said it would be ineffective, impact. That should not be tolerated, but we have to but we all know that that was not the case. understand that struggling businesses do not take on apprentices—they survive day to day and fight day to There are real worries in the building industry about day. The last thing they are thinking about is having an the new VAT rise. It will harm in many ways. First, it apprentice, because they are thinking about getting will chase people away from embarking on improvements, through the day without the bank phoning them. and in doing so it will cost revenue and jobs—and if it costs jobs, it costs even more revenue. It will encourage When the construction industry loses jobs, there is a a black market as people turn to cash-in-hand jobs to lack of focus on the resulting suffering because it does save that 20%, and what will that do? It will lead to a not affect 2,000 or 3,000 people all under one roof. They loss of revenue. Cash-strapped home owners will become are in different places around the United Kingdom, and increasingly vulnerable, and the £170 million that was when jobs are lost, it is 20 jobs here and 40, 50 or 100 estimated to be taken on the housing sector black there. That makes it very difficult for the construction market this year looks set to grow. sector to show the impact of policies and to get through to the Government and people in general the impact of Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): I am listening very closely decisions. It is very easy to see what is happening when to what my hon. Friend is saying. As a former Minister a car plant or a big manufacturing location is threatened with responsibility for construction, I think the VAT with closure, but it is very difficult to take on board increase regarding environmental improvements to homes everything that is happening in the construction sector is a major error, because it disincentivises people from because it is so disparate and is spread throughout the making homes more energy efficient. I cannot see a UK. more short-sighted measure in the Budget. Before I discuss my constituency, I make one last plea for the construction sector. It is vital for training, revenue Gordon Banks: My hon. Friend is right, and it is not and business growth, and it is vital for improving public just about the environmental or green side; it is also services, which I want to improve. It is also vital for about quality of life. The quality of a property has a improving the quality of life of UK citizens. I strongly knock-on effect on children’s ability to grow up and urge the Government to recognise that and to invest in learn, so there will be a negative effect all round. I am it accordingly. not sure that he, as a former Minister with responsibility My constituency is quite large and varied, with a for construction, will enjoy what I am about to say, but I rural aspect to much of it. We have industry, of which think there is a strong argument for reducing VAT to we are very proud—some of it is excellent. There are stimulate the economy, just as the last Government did, businesses such as Highland Spring, Vector Aerospace, 429 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 430

[Gordon Banks] been fuelled by public spending and paid for by unsustainable debt. Let me give an example: the National Owens-Illinois and Diageo, and I want to focus on two Audit Office published a report that suggested that of those, their interdependence and the impact of the between 2002 and 2007 the jobs created by regional VAT increase. Diageo has long had an interest and a development agencies cost £60,000 each. For every new presence in Clackmannanshire. The county is very proud job, the Government effectively spent £60,000. Such a of that business, as it is of Owens-Illinois, or the Glassworks level of public sector job creation is not the way that we as it is called locally. The interdependence is that one of will increase jobs in the long term. the companies produces the packaging for the product There has also been a lot of talk about evidence, but that the other produces. if we consider the evidence of what creates growth and My concern is that the VAT increase will impact what creates jobs—I have looked at some international negatively on product sales, which will impact negatively treasury studies on this—we see that the most productive on the requirement for packaging. If that occurs, the area of public spending as regards growth is infrastructure safety valve will be jobs. It is not rocket science—it is spending and the second most productive in terms of simple and straightforward. In my opinion, and as we growth and jobs is education spending. That is where heard yesterday, the recent reduction in the budget the Government should be focused and that is where we deficit is a result of increased tax take arising from are rightly focused. businesses getting back on their feet, from people being in work and from a return to growth. The VAT increase Mr Lammy: In the light of what the hon. Lady has puts all that at risk. It is regressive, hits the poorest just said, which was put very well, will she make hardest and will result in job losses. It will not deliver representations to the Government about the closure of the revenue necessary for the Treasury, and it could have the Building Schools for the Future programme, which a negative effect that might deliver a downward spiral. is at the centre of both education and infrastructure in The VAT increase coupled with the axing of the future this country? jobs fund makes the outlook anything but secure. We have discussed today why the future jobs fund has Elizabeth Truss: The evidence suggests that the most been cut, and I am afraid that I and my Opposition productive education spending is that on the quality of colleagues do not understand why it has been cut. We teaching, not on the quality of the buildings. I am also do not understand why the Prime Minister, who happy to discuss that further with the right hon. Gentleman, thinks it is a good idea, has decided to cut it. It is and I would do so by letter if he likes. interesting to see some Liberal Democrats in the House Moving on to the reports that demonstrate that this afternoon, because they think that the future jobs infrastructure spending is the most effective way to fund is a good thing, too, but have played their part in spend, not just those in ivory towers think that—indeed, cutting it. In fact, the Minister of State, Department for the Library agrees—but local businesses in my constituency Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury do so, too. I asked them to give me their priorities for and Yate (Steve Webb), said: what the Government should do for South West Norfolk “We have no plans to change or reduce existing government businesses. They said, “No. 1: improve the road and rail commitments to the Future Jobs Fund. We believe that more help links. No. 2: get the performance up in our schools, so is needed for young people, not less”. that we have the skills that we need locally.” That is In Scotland, some 11,000 young people will be discarded what people say. as a result of the Prime Minister and the Lib Dems going back on their word. Much more can be said about Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): In the the Government’s support for jobs—or lack of—but I light of what the hon. Lady has just said, will she say a will end by saying this. The VAT increase will cost jobs; few words about the cancellation of the A14 project, axing the future jobs fund will cost jobs; and failing to which is vital to her region and my region in the east of recognise the importance of the construction and housing England? sectors will cost jobs. They will all cost revenue, ruin lives and put the recovery at risk. None of them are a Elizabeth Truss: I am in the process of making chance worth taking. representations on the A11, which is a crucial project that would open up businesses in Norfolk. We should Several hon. Members rose— assess such projects—I shall come to this later in my speech—on the basis of economic return. We have a Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Before very small pot now, owing to what has happened and I call the next speaker, I would appreciate it if Members the money that has been spent in the past few years, and could try to aim for 11-minute speeches. If they do not, we need to use that pot wisely. I should like to see the not everybody will get in. I did not want to put the clock evidence on those various roads and consider the highest on, but I am being tempted. I understand that Members rates of return. That is my answer to the hon. Gentleman’s have a lot to say, but I ask them not to forget, if they point. take interventions, that if they can stick to around 11 minutes I will be much happier. Given that businesses would like growth to be created in that way, so that they can create jobs, where have the last Government spent the money? Have they spent it 3.48 pm on infrastructure? The World Economic Forum report Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): We have suggests that Britain is sixth in terms of gross domestic heard a lot of talk from the other side of the House product. Where do hon. Members think that we are on about jobs and growth, but over the past 13 years we the infrastructure table after 13 years of Labour have seen illusory growth and illusory jobs that have Government? We are thirty-fourth. That record has 431 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 432 created the problems that we see: new jobs are not being in which the projects are assessed, so that we can have a created in the private sector because the money was not proper debate about the best way to spend our limited spent. Not only did the last Government fail to fix the money. roof while the sun was shining, they failed to fix the It will be growth on the basis of real jobs and on the roads while the sun was shining, and we are left with basis of decent infrastructure, good railways and roads, that legacy. We are left with a difficult position. Not that will seal our economic future in the right direction, only are there potholes in our roads, but there is a huge not pursuing the initiatives and schemes that we have hole in our budget. We must ensure that we spend on seen time and again during the past 13 years, frittering things that provide value for money. away valuable money.It is our money, not the Government’s money. Ultimately, it is the money of all those in my Gordon Banks: Is the hon. Lady carrying on from constituency who pay taxes. where I left off and advocating significant investment in the construction industry—a simple yes or no would be Alison McGovern: It is interesting to hear how fearful good? the hon. Lady is about incorrect spending on infrastructure projects and what she said about how the Labour Government wasted money. My region has seen great Elizabeth Truss: Such decisions should be based on benefits from the improved infrastructure on the west the economic return, as I have said. That is how we coast main line, and we were looking forward to should consider spending our money. The problem with reconnecting the whole of our region, led by the RDA, the previous Government is that the money has gone on with the Manchester rail hub. Will she call on Government politically motivated white elephants, to gain good results Front-Bench Members to commit to those infrastructure in Government elections or to placate interest groups. projects? Will she acknowledge to the House that the We have not seen value for money. money that was spent on infrastructure by the Labour Government was extremely helpful in resetting our Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): Is national economy? one of the other areas on which the previous Government wasted a huge amount of public money the most convoluted Elizabeth Truss: I am afraid that the hon. Lady’s procurement processes for the spending of taxpayers’ intervention illustrates the problem with Labour Members. money? That money should have been spent on the They present schemes, but there is no ex-post or ex-ante infrastructure that my hon. Friend has spoken about so analysis of their economic benefits. The hon. Lady asks well. a question, but does not produce the evidence. Again, I would be happy to discuss that with her later, but she did not present the evidence. We must have debate. Not Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. only are we talking about what we are putting in; we are Not only was the analysis of where the money was also talking about the benefits that we get out. We need spent incorrect, but the processes by which it was spent an economic policy that is based on the costs and were cumbersome. I believe that the Building Schools benefits and that talks about the important areas of for the Future process had nine stages. That has taken a spending. I am pleased that the Chancellor in his Budget lot of money that could have been used to create real decided not to reduce capital spending further, but to jobs in our economy, by improving our infrastructure make sure that it will go ahead so as to have a proper and education. I completely agree. basis for economic growth and jobs in the future. That We have heard a lot of arguments from Opposition is the important area that we need to be looking at. Members about how people would support a particular fund or a particular level of spending, but we have not 3.58 pm seen a cost-benefit analysis. We have limited funds. We Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) need to prove that those funds are better used on one (Lab): I am delighted to follow the interesting speech of project, whether that is the future jobs fund, or another the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth project, whether that is the A14 or the A11. We have not Truss) on the need for an economic benefit analysis of seen such analysis. What we have heard from Opposition every decision that is taken by Government. That is one Members is a number of anecdotes. I do not think that of the factors that led to the devastation of many of the anecdote is a good way to conduct government. We regions, because some things cannot be measured in need to conduct government on the basis of evidence. pure economic benefit alone. There is also the social value of projects. That is why I want to address the John Howell (Henley) (Con): Would my hon. Friend House today on the disproportionate and unfair impact put the £13 billion spent on regional development agencies of Government spending cuts on the north-east of since 1999 in the same category as the white elephants England—and, I am sure, on many other regions, but I that she has been describing? speak for my own today. In Newcastle upon Tyne North, we have many public Elizabeth Truss: I would. That is not to say that sector workers, but we also have several major private everything spent by RDAs was wrong. There have been employers, including Sage, Nestlé and Sanofi Aventis. many good projects. But the way it was spent and Projects in recent years, such as Newcastle airport industrial prioritised did not use Government money to its best estate, Newcastle Great Park developments and the effect. That is my point. That is why I want to see the development of many retail outlets, have diversified the Government assess projects on the basis of economic local jobs market in Newcastle. None the less, many of return, as I mentioned earlier to the hon. Member for my constituents are long-serving and dedicated public Luton South (Gavin Shuker). I want the Government servants who stand to be directly and swiftly hit by the to have a fully open and transparent process in the way Lib-Con austerity drive. 433 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 434

[Catherine McKinnell] That is not the full picture, however. The public sector is so economically vital that it is not hard to In Newcastle upon Tyne North, the current situation imagine the impact of large-scale redundancies on private has come as no surprise, because during the election firms in the region. Simply throwing public sector workers campaign the now Prime Minister publicly identified out of their jobs will mean not only a loss of direct the north-east as a region where spending was unsustainable employment, but the devastation of private firms. More and where public sector employment was simply too than in other areas of the country, such firms in my high. The first wave of public cuts were announced on region depend upon revenue from public sector 24 May, and now we have the ideologically motivated organisations. cuts laid down in the Budget. That is directly linked to my next point, which is my deeply held opposition to the abolition of my region’s Jim Shannon: It was not only Newcastle that was very popular and highly respected development agency, mentioned; it was also Northern Ireland. The Prime One NorthEast, which is located in my constituency on Minister was quick off the mark there. However, the Newburn Riverside park. Owing to massive cuts in level of public sector economic activity in Northern Government spending on regional development, Ireland is almost 27%—5.2% above the UK average—and combined with the Liberal-Conservative pledge to the dependence on public sector jobs is perhaps greater transfer RDAs’ functions to local authorities, the there than in other parts of the UK. I say to Government Government have announced, after damaging Members that it is important that the private sector is indecision and backtracking, that One NorthEast is to increased before anything happens to the public sector. be abolished. Its closure will remove a vital local driver I want everyone to be aware that the impact will be for recovery and eliminate a key means of building a great, as the hon. Lady has said. stronger local private economy. Catherine McKinnell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for In March, the National Audit Office published its his intervention. He is absolutely correct that those two report on RDAs and concluded that £3.30 had been regions were identified by the Prime Minister as specific generated for every pound of Government funding targets for cuts. Recent announcements have made it given to them. A year ago, another investigation clear that the future is particularly distressing for regions into RDA effectiveness, this time carried out by such as mine and that of the hon. Gentleman. PricewaterhouseCoopers, showed that for every public pound invested there had been a return of £4.50 to the Mr Timpson: The hon. Lady suggests that the cuts private sector. The ill thought-out shunting and transfer announced in the Budget are ideologically driven, but of some of the RDAs’ roles—I presume not all of does she accept that she stood on a manifesto promise them—to under-resourced local authorities will be totally at the last election to implement a 20% cut in departmental unworkable. spending and a 50% cut in capital spending? Catherine McKinnell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for Nadhim Zahawi: The hon. Lady cites the highlighting the fact that the Labour Government stood PricewaterhouseCoopers report, but the Institute of on a manifesto accepting that cuts were necessary to Directors also produced a report on the RDAs, which reduce the deficit. That seems to be forgotten on many showed that only 18% of directors thought that they occasions when I and my hon. Friends are accused of made a contribution, and 60% thought that development not having announced any cuts. would have taken place in the regions without the RDAs being in place. To cite selectively from Gordon Banks: Does my hon. Friend agree that we PricewaterhouseCoopers is slightly misleading. have seen a significant driver coming through—the 11% increase in the tax take this April-May compared with Catherine McKinnell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for April-May last year—because of the growth in the his intervention, because it highlights my point that economy? Does she also agree that growth is the best these issues cannot be examined as a whole across the way to get the country out of recession and into growth, UK. The situation in each region is incredibly different and to cut the deficit? and unique, which is why the RDAs were so successful in particular parts of the country and why the removal Catherine McKinnell: Absolutely, and I thank my of the north-east’s RDA, which is successful and which hon. Friend for his intervention. It is notable that, since business leaders across the region accept as a major the emergency Budget that we debated yesterday was driving force in the private economy, is a travesty. announced, the growth forecasts have reduced as a result of that Budget. Alison McGovern: My hon. Friend makes a very I return to the subject that I want to address today: important point. Does she agree that regions are different, the impact of the Budget on the north-east. Approximately and that the previous Government used the movement 266,000 people in the north-east are employed as public of public sector jobs to regions such as the north-east servants—almost one in three workers—and many of and the north-west partly to save costs to the public those individuals, and the families they support, live in purse? Newcastle and the surrounding areas. Large-scale redundancies in the public sector, which are now certain, will be disastrous for the city’s economy, which is, in Catherine McKinnell: Absolutely, and my hon. Friend turn, an engine for regional growth. The likely result rightly draws attention to some of the worrying will be lasting unemployment and an enforced exodus consequences that will come out of the Budget. It will of talented professionals from what, during the past drive up unemployment and difficulties and increase decade, has been a rapidly emerging region. public spending, particularly in the regions. 435 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 436

Gavin Shuker: Within the context of the debate about child tax credits, that is nothing but a fig leaf for the the evidence basis for RDAs and the benefit that they abolition not only of the Sure Start maternity grant, give, does my hon. Friend agree that financial information worth £500, but of the baby addition to the child tax about the amount of money that goes in and comes out credit and the health in pregnancy grant, as well as for of the public purse is a much better guide than ideological the decision to reject Labour’s proposals for a £4 a week points about how people feel about regional development supplement—a toddler tax—for each child. agencies? For people on low incomes, tax credits are fundamental to empowering families to support their children and Catherine McKinnell: I absolutely agree, and my hon. ensure that they get the best start in life, thereby breaking Friend makes his point very well indeed. the cycles of deprivation that we see in so many parts of A large number of my constituents lack any formal the country, particularly the north-east. As the mother educational qualifications. Such individuals, should they of two small children, I know from experience how vital be already unemployed or, as is likely to happen in my financial help can be. To be honest, I have been stunned region, should they be made redundant, will be hugely by the callous manner in which that help has simply affected by the cuts announced to the DWP’s job creation been abandoned by the Liberal-Conservative Government. and training schemes, which have been widely debated Some £3 billion-worth of cuts have been made to support today. They will no longer have the necessary help to for families. Such decisions will be devastating for parents, prepare themselves to take advantage of new opportunities preventing them from getting out to work or creating arising from the eventual recovery, and that is especially either a work environment or the capacity to work in concerning in relation to youth unemployment. The their households, thereby breaking the cycle of deprivation future jobs fund has been abandoned, and the £1,000 that can so often take hold in workless households. incentive for businesses to employ a person who has Joined to the unfair rise in VAT—a tax that punishes been unemployed for six months or more has been the poor—those cuts will have an impact on unemployment scrapped. Extended periods of unemployment and a and child poverty in my region, thereby causing further lack of appropriate training mean that those vulnerable unemployment in the long term. The national economy groups will be dangerously ill equipped to enter the remains weak, especially in areas of the country such as future jobs market. The decision to ask the Department Newcastle, where large numbers of children, unemployed for Education to make huge cuts is also disproportionately people and low-income families are already struggling damaging. It is clear that, because only 10,000 of the and will struggle more under this Budget. They are the promised 20,000 extra university places are now available, people who must be protected and not punished by the access to higher education for state school pupils will Government’s policies during this difficult time. inevitably be restricted. Several hon. Members rose— Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I am listening to the hon. Lady with great interest. She is clearly Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Before I call the next making a passionate case, expressing her genuine concerns speaker, I remind the House that I asked hon. Members about the cuts, but she mentioned ideological cuts. to limit the amount of time they took. Can we try to Does she really have no ideological problem with the stick to 10 minutes? Hon. Members should please not debt interest that this county pays out every year potentially take as many interventions, because otherwise people rising to as much as £70 billion? That would mean will miss out. I did not want to turn the clock on, but I £70 billion not spent on public services and a debt for am getting more tempted by the minute. the next generation in the north-east and elsewhere to repay. 4.14 pm Catherine McKinnell: I do not have an ideological Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): I rise to speak in concern about the debt that is the current deficit, although this debate concerned about youth unemployment and I share the concern of all Labour Members that the job prospects, and I do so as we discover that the deficit needs to be reduced. Fundamentally, however, it number of 18 to 24-year-olds not in employment, education needs to be reduced in a way that does not throw or training has reached an all-time high of 837,000. thousands or millions of people on to the scrap heap, in That is 17.6% of our 18 to 24-year-olds neither earning the way that they were left there in the 1980s. I know nor learning. that this is not taken very seriously by Government Members, but generations of people were left on the The previous Government did not meet their scrap heap. apprenticeship targets, but they did leave us with a record deficit. That is a disastrous combination for the next Government not only to pick up but to clear up. Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): Will my hon. We have unfulfilled targets, sluggish economic growth Friend give way on that point? and a record deficit—a triangular tragedy for youth and unemployment. In my patch of Wirral West, we have Catherine McKinnell: I think I need to make progress. some of the worst unemployment rates for 16 to 24-year- Finally, some additional cuts have been announced olds in the north-west. We were ranked seventh worst of and, although they have perhaps not been talked about the 39 local authorities in September 2009. The number today, I believe that they will fundamentally affect of my constituents claiming jobseeker’s allowance has future jobs and the ability of people in the north-east to risen in the last year, and we are also below the national take them up. I refer to the cuts to child tax credits. average age for 16 and 17-year-olds in education and Although the Liberal-Conservative Government have work-based learning. It is particularly worrying that announced a £150 increase in the per-child element of those who are not in education or employment now will 437 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 438

[Esther McVey] As the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for continue along that path, and it is vital that the Government South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes) recently put every effort into getting young people into work said: and training as soon as possible after they leave the “Demand for apprenticeship places is growing and one of our compulsory education system. priorities is to encourage more employers to participate. Apprenticeships are both a route to key competences for employees The cost to the economy of youth unemployment is and a vital way to help employers”. not insignificant. According to estimates, each of these so-called NEETs who drop out of school at 16 will cost I should like to extend an invitation to the Minister or the taxpayer almost £97,000 over their lifetime, when the Secretary of State to come to Wirral to see how the their unemployment benefits and their inability to pay scheme is working, and also to use what limited funds taxes are taken into account. We have heard a lot about we have put aside to extend apprenticeship schemes. We the economy today, and about what unemployment do not need a new generation of our youth not knowing costs the country, but I want to look beyond the economics how to fill their time or how to pay their way. of the situation to the well-being of each individual, and to their physical and mental health, their self-esteem 4.19 pm and their morale. To stare into an unknown expanse of time, not knowing how it will be filled or paid for, Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): It is a great erodes the soul and destroys the spirit. That suffering pleasure to speak from the Back Benches under your cannot be quantified, but it seeps into the common chairmanship, Mr Deputy Speaker. unconsciousness of our nation. I hope that all of us in the House share a passionate commitment to what we might generally call human We already have some of the highest levels of youth dignity. When we think about human dignity and where unemployment in Europe, and we need to be creative it comes from, we think of the component of family about how we are going to get out of that situation. We and love, and of how beneficial education and nurturing need to think of a new way forward. I like to think that are as the centre of that human dignity. I think we there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I would like to would all agree, too, that for very many people purpose bring to the attention of the House the Wirral Apprentice in life comes from employment, and in particular from programme, which is leading the way in the apprenticeships skilled employment. I hope that all of us can agree on field. It has created more than 100 new opportunities that basic principle. for young people by offering private sector organisations an 18-month wage subsidy for a minimum two-year Listening to what has been said this afternoon, I have apprenticeship. Working with the National Apprenticeship reflected on my memory of standing at a bus shelter in Service, the Wirral Apprentice scheme is delivered by Tottenham high road as an 18-year-old, wearing a suit a Wirral council’s children and young people’s department little cheaper than the one that I am wearing today and and provides a dedicated member of staff to support with a big Afro—looking a bit like the Michael Jackson each business that takes part. It has been hugely successful, figure before all the plastic surgery—and being approached and it is now in its second year. by other people in the neighbourhood who imagined that I was there for one of two reasons: either I was on The Wirral Apprentice scheme is heavily over-subscribed, my way to the local magistrates court, or I was on my however. Last year, more than 1,000 people submitted way to church. That was the context in which wearing a 3,117 applications but fewer than 150 businesses took suit was seen in a community like that, back in the late part. It does not take a genius to see that many people 1980s and early 1990s. The dignity of work was something will be left without an apprenticeship. The scheme is not experienced by far too many young people in that over-subscribed and under-resourced. Such over- community. subscription is not specific to Wirral or the north-west; In the 1980s, unemployment reached 20% and, in it is to be found throughout the whole country, and we some parts of the community, 40%. When we came to need to look at what we are going to do about it. power in 1997, it was at a record 28% in the constituency of Tottenham. Tottenham has the highest unemployment Alison McGovern: As a Wirral MP, I totally back in London, but today the figure stands at just under what the hon. Lady says about the Wirral Apprentice—it 11%. This is paradoxical, but I sincerely wish the is a cracking scheme—but how does she think her Government well in ensuring that we do not see another Government’s cuts to local authorities will help Wirral generation of, in particular, young people left floundering, to keep that fantastic scheme going? feckless, restless and workless in communities like those that we saw before. Esther McVey: The Government are planning to get What concerns me about the Government’s policy is best value for money. They want to increase the their ideological commitment to slashing the deficit so apprenticeship scheme across the country by 50,000, quickly. They seem to imagine that it is possible to take and they are planning to put a significant amount of £113 billion out of the economy by means of cuts, and money into it. That is what we need to do. We need to that if they cut the public sector, in a short space of time look at places where the apprenticeship scheme is working. the private sector will move in to provide the necessary As I have said, however, the scheme is over-subscribed jobs. I have seen it done before; it did not work then, and under-resourced and we need to look at that as and I am not convinced that it will work now. I ask the well. Perhaps the hon. Lady and I can do that together Government to think again. with the Government. The scheme is working, but we Many of us who are in the Chamber must remember need to expand it so that more people in Wirral, the the old youth training scheme—the YTS—run by the north-west and the rest of the country can be fulfilled. Manpower Services Commission. I recall that 58% of 439 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 440 those on the scheme left before time, and that 50% of first few days in office, it is gone. There will be a those who stayed ended up with no qualifications and reduction in employment in constituencies like mine, no employment at all. It became a joke scheme, not just and there is a real prospect that the 1980s and 1990s will in this country but internationally. When I hear about visit our communities again. the Work programme that will be presented to the I shall end on a tough point that I believe with House in a few months’ time, it has the imprint of the conviction. Very sadly, in parts of our communities in old YTS scheme. When I am asked to believe passionately London, there are young people who would pick up a in the 50,000 apprenticeships that the Government claim knife and who have experienced really chaotic lives. they will provide, I recall that this is the same party that Their parents are the same age as me, and they are left us with 67,000 apprenticeships in the entire country precisely the people who were failed previously. That is when they left office last time. We built the number of the social consequence of this ideological mistake that apprenticeships back up to 250,000, and it was hard the Government are set on. I ask them to think again. because persuading the private sector to offer those apprenticeships took considerable effort. 4.31 pm When the Minister winds up, perhaps she can tell us how many apprenticeships the Government have been Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): I shall keep able to encourage the private sector to provide since the my speech brief, Mr Deputy Speaker, as instructed. announcement of the 50,000. By what date will the One key element of our response to the recession and 50,000 be provided? So far, I have seen only one the pressing need to create jobs has to be a recognition apprenticeship, and that is the Chief Secretary to the of the value of the green economy. I think that more or Treasury. I look forward to the numbers that will join less all of us now accept that it would be a mistake to try him, and to some of my constituents being able to take and recreate the conditions that brought us the crisis in up these apprenticeships. the first place, but we have an opportunity to raise from There are constituencies where, historically, the private the wreck of an economy built on housing bubbles, sector has not been present as it has in other areas. My uncontrolled public spending and financial services an constituency is certainly one of those. Most of my alternative that is both stable and sustainable. constituents, since the beginning of the welfare state, Whether or not we are concerned about climate change, have been employed in the public and voluntary sectors. it is worth recognising that clean technology is an That is where they have always looked for employment emerging global market that is expected to be worth and I say, with no shame, that because of historic trillions of dollars in the coming decades. In fact, that discrimination black and ethnic minority people in this market globally is already worth hundreds of billions of country have always looked to the public sector. Through dollars. This is a massive opportunity for job creation, the race relations legislation in the 1970s, we brought by any standards, and Britain should be at the forefront, the public sector into the frame to ensure that employment, but unfortunately we have just a 5% stake in those clean so they have always looked to the public sector—the companies. very public sector that is now being slashed. We should be a leader in innovation: we are not, and The slashing of the public sector sits alongside the in the past decade we have seen virtually no sign of a Conservatives’ proposals on higher education which are coherent programme. We have seen no real investment a double whammy. Higher education is a key sector for in carbon capture and storage— economic growth, but it is not ring-fenced or protected. It is outside the commitments that the Government Mr Anderson: Does the hon. Gentleman recollect the have made on health and schools, and it will see its closure in 1986 of this country’s coal mining industry budget cut by up to 40% in the spending review to come. by the Conservative Government? That included closing One part of the coalition is committed to the abolition the most advance clean-coal technology site in the of fees and the other is probably committed to a world—at Grimethorpe colliery in Barnsley. marketplace in fees. The likely result is a quagmire, a gap that will not be filled, and the issue will be kicked Zac Goldsmith: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that into the long grass. That means that universities will not intervention. Times change: the case now for clean coal get the money and that the expansion we have seen in has been renewed on the back of emerging evidence for constituencies such as mine will not continue. climate change. If he does not mind, I will not go back 25 years, but I shall continue with a very brief description That is the outlook for higher education. We are of what I regard as a huge failure over the past 10 years. unlikely to see a growth in apprenticeships—we do not know the time frame or how many are likely to be I mentioned carbon capture and storage, but there created. We also see the scrapping of the future jobs have been no effective incentives for home owners or fund that was a buffer and an ideological commitment organisations in the commercial sector to pursue energy that we must stand by on this side of the House. We efficiency. There have been virtually no incentives to borrowed £1 billion to create the future jobs fund, develop renewable energy: as a result, we have seen working with the public and voluntary sector, to ensure virtually no progress over the last 13 years. that we did not see another wasted generation. We The CBI said last year that it is politics and policy, believed that that commitment to young people would and not the recession, that have prevented green investment mean growth in our economy—that it would come in the UK, and it pleaded with the Government to just good. We believed that because we had seen the evidence, “get on with it”. When Jonathon Porritt stepped down not least from after the war when we built the NHS. We after nine years as the chair of the Sustainable Development saw the evidence in the new deal that was set up by Commission he also accused the Government of gross Roosevelt in much harder times in the US. That was our failure. He added, sarcastically, that the UK had become commitment to young people and, in the Government’s “a world leader in green rhetoric.” 441 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 442

[Zac Goldsmith] top of the league to the 7th best region on economic performance. If my region had matched the UK average We should broaden our economic base to include on output per head, the regional economy would have more green technologies and more engineering and benefited by an additional £16.5 billion. high-value manufacturing. We need to reconfigure our The human cost of that long-term decline starting in energy systems and find a way to wean ourselves off our the 1980s has been immense. Four of the five most dependence on imported hydrocarbons. That dependence deprived wards in Britain are in Birmingham, 10 of the is dangerous environmentally, economically and politically. 20 most deprived wards in Britain are in the midlands We need to turn Britain into a world leader in green and the constituency I am proud to represent— innovation, and we have the chance to do that now. In Birmingham, Erdington—is the sixth most deprived in my view, the existing commitments of the coalition Britain. The statistics are stark and so, too, is the Government will set us absolutely on the right path appalling human price that I see day in, day out in my Paul King, chief executive of the UK Green Building constituency. Birmingham and Erdington both believe Council, described the green deal as follows: in a tradition of self-help, but the problems we face are “This is a bold and welcome move. The biggest barrier to low incapable of resolution, other than through the role of carbon refurbishment—the upfront cost—is set to fall. Pay As good government. The role of government is not to You Save is a radical scheme, which could” wash its hands of responsibility for the unemployed, create because that is a Pontius Pilate approach towards those “at least 100,000 new jobs, saving money and conserving energy.” who need the help of government. The green deal is just one initiative, as the Chancellor I wish to focus on Advantage West Midlands, which has announced plans to create a green investment bank is the most successful regional development agency in to facilitate investment from the private sector in new Britain; the National Audit Office’s recent report gave it clean-energy technology companies. In addition to that, a rating of four out of four, and for every £1 of public we have plans to create a number of large-scale marine money spent, the regional economy benefits by £8.14. energy parks. It is extraordinary that this country has AWM is a constantly improving RDA with an outstanding 14,000 miles of coastline, yet we have barely begun to track record. Sir Rod Eddington’s transport study said tap this extraordinarily valuable resource. We have plans— that its work on transport infrastructure was the best in indeed, we have a commitment—to roll out smart meters Britain. The Treasury review of June 2009 said that and the feed-in tariff. If the example that Germany has AWM was the most cost-effective RDA in Britain. I shown us is to be believed, the feed-in tariff will lead to have seen at first hand the power of its work. I remember a revolution in decentralised energy and to huge job that when Rover was saved from closure in 2000, it was creation. thanks to what AWM did in diversifying the supply We have plans to lay out a national recharging network. base that when Rover tragically went under in 2005, It will trigger a shift, which we absolutely need, from the tens of thousands of jobs that would have gone in the traditional, conventional car to electric vehicles and supply chain in small and medium-sized enterprises hybrid plug-ins. I realise that time is short, and I could were preserved. I, too, experienced that terrible day cite endless examples of Government initiatives that when 5,000 workers lost their jobs at Longbridge. Advantage will foster the shift we are going to see. At every stage of West Midlands swung into action immediately, and in the shift, we will see huge opportunities for job creation nine months, by way of effective programmes, 4,000 of and wealth creation, and we need to tap into those. those 5,000 workers had been found alternative employment. In green policies, as in most policies, the most powerful role the state can play is not to dictate or direct, but to The transformational change has been remarkable. empower. Instead of introducing a mind-numbing array The development of the Longbridge innovation centre of quangos, conflicting initiatives and schemes, all aimed and Bournville college has meant 10,000 new jobs and at micro-managing our way towards a low-carbon future, 1,450 new homes. The development of our regional we need to establish a clear framework, set the signals infrastructure, with the New Street Gateway, the single- and let the market deliver. In truth, that is our only biggest investment by any regional development agency, option. We cannot rely on public money because, as we involves £100 million of public money, but it levered in all know, there is none. Instead, we have to find ways of £2 billion of private sector investment, with enormous ensuring that existing money flows in a new direction economic benefits, including 10,000 more jobs. and if we are successful, we will prosper on the back of There have been also solutions for business. Since an economic recovery that might last. We will have done 2002, 5,000 manufacturing companies, overwhelmingly the right thing and we will be rewarded for having small and medium-sized enterprises, have benefited from done so. the world-class advice of the Manufacturing Advisory Service, adding £150 million to their turnover. It is little wonder, therefore, that the midlands business community 4.36 pm strongly supports Advantage West Midlands. The voice Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): of the business community, Business Voice WM, having Historically, Birmingham and the midlands was the consulted its members in June, said to the Government, industrial heartland of Britain. In the 1970s, the regional “Do not abolish the regional development agency. An economy outperformed the national average, but in the intelligent debate about change and reform? Perhaps. 1980s Birmingham and the midlands was blitzed by the But do not abolish the regional development agency.” effects of the Conservative Government and 200,000 people lost their jobs, overwhelmingly in manufacturing. John Howell: How much of Advantage West Midland’s A proud region paid a terrible price. Sadly, decline has programme reflects the wishes of local councils, rather continued since, and the area has gone from being at the than those of central Government? 443 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 444

Jack Dromey: I shall come in a moment to why it is climate, with the savage cuts being made to public important to have a regional structure by way of investment, 2.5 million jobs are going to flourish in the co-ordinating local authorities, because sometimes the private sector is as respectable a view as that of the competing views and demands of local authorities do economist in the 1930s who argued that what caused not necessarily work in the best interests of the regional the recession was sunspots that interfered with the economy. mechanisms of the market and the minds of the bankers I shall provide a practical example of why, right now, in the marketplace. The simple reality is that all informed we need an effective regional development agency. There sources, including the CIPD, have said: “There’s not a are 150,000 people working in the automotive cluster in hope in hell.” the midlands—from the major manufacturers such as We look to the Government to respond constructively Jaguar and its plant in my constituency, through the to the dialogue that we want on the future of Advantage machine tool, logistics and component companies, to West Midlands. We also want them to think again about the universities and research and development institutes. some of the decisions that have been made: the abolition All work together in an effective cluster, with the regional of the future jobs fund; the cutting back of the working development agency bringing together local authorities neighbourhoods fund, with £4 million of cuts in and the private sector to work in partnership and galvanise Birmingham, the largest cut anywhere in Britain, despite and consolidate that which is absolutely key to the the deprivation that we face; the cutting back of success of our regional economy. Connexions, with £2.7 million of cuts in Birmingham, the second largest cut in Britain; and the impact of the Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): Is jobs tax—the VAT increase. there not an arbitrary nature to the structure of regional All this from a marriage of convenience—two parties development agencies and the areas they cover? That that have come together. On the one hand, there is a automotive cluster would not include, for example, party with a once-great, progressive tradition, the party Cowley in Oxford, which is part of the south-east of Lloyd George, Beveridge and Keynes; on the other, region. My constituency is also in that region, which there is a Conservative party that once had a different covers an area stretching from Dover up to Oxford and tradition: that of Harold Macmillan, who, scarred by Milton Keynes. Some of the structures do not necessarily the memories of the 1930s, said, “Never again.” Sadly, fit the economic realities of local areas. in the 1980s, the Conservative party, in the immortal words of Julian Critchley, got taken over by the garagistes, Jack Dromey: I accept that, and I am very familiar and in the 21st century, it has been taken over by the with Cowley because I have been to the plant there bankers. Those parties are abandoning their own traditions many times. However, if we want that automotive cluster whereby they remember the bitter period of the 1930s to succeed, there is a simple reality to acknowledge. I and know that if we walk away from the unemployed, am in discussions right now with Jaguar Land Rover this country pays a terrible price. The Con-Dem alliance about its decisions for the future. It says that the power may do that; this Labour party never will. and effectiveness of that automotive cluster is absolutely vital for its organisation, and in turn Advantage West Midlands is crucial to the cluster’s success. 4.47 pm Why destroy a success story and replace it with—what? Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): I shall try to be I am all in favour of an intelligent debate about, for brief, as I have been told, and I will certainly keep my example, how one might have sub-regional arrangements comments shorter than some of the contributions made in the midlands. Crucially, however, if we throw away last night. the advantage of that regional, strategic approach, with I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this it will go the co-ordination and initiative, working with debate on support for the numerous measures already strong business leadership, that has been absolutely key. taken by the new Government to assist the unemployed We need the Government to clarify their approach to and encourage the creation of new jobs, particularly in the issue. I hope that during the debate the Minister will the private sector. Let us be clear: we face an extremely respond to that point, because there are mixed messages: difficult employment situation. The dire economic recession on the one hand, the Secretary of State for Business, has seen unemployment jump to just under 2.5 million, Innovation and Skills says that he is open-minded about while the number of inactive people of working age has the retention of a strong regional structure if that is the increased to a record high of 8.2 million. Put simply, we wish of the midlands; on the other hand, the Secretary cannot continue to sustain such economic inactivity. of State for Communities and Local Government has A new approach is required, and key to any lasting taken an ideological position, which says, “We will wind Government support will be the creation of an economic up the RDA and not have a strategic approach, come environment in which private enterprise can compete what may.” We need clarity. I am in dialogue, right now, and invest with confidence. As such, I welcome many of with local authorities, with the business community, the measures in the recent emergency Budget which are and with many others who want that intelligent debate designed to do just that. For example, lowering corporation on what kind of structure we have for the future. Are tax to 20% will attract new business investment to the the Government open to the retention of a strong UK while giving us the lowest rate of this form of regional strategy, which is what the midlands wants? taxation in the G7. Meanwhile, combining that move We have heard it said that according to the Treasury’s with the small business rate relief will benefit more than leaked documents, as yet unpublished, 1.3 million jobs 500,000 businesses up and down the country. If we are will go, while the hope is to create 2.5 million new jobs. serious about driving down unemployment, we must With the greatest respect, if we look at the history of welcome such moves to drive up private sector job creation in Britain, believing that, in the current competitiveness. 445 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 446

[Julian Sturdy] ambitious policies will get us back on the road of rising employment, job creation, economic stability and In addition, if we are to achieve true economic recovery, long-term growth. we must ensure that those areas of the country whose economies were unbalanced even before the recession 4.54 pm receive additional focus and Government support in the recovery. The sad truth is that regional disparities grew Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): I want to talk under the Labour Government. In my region of Yorkshire about jobs in south Wales, and the future jobs fund in and the Humber, workplace-based gross value added particular. I do not believe the Government’s Budget per head increased by only 18.5% between 1997 and will help boost employment in my constituency and in 2008, compared with a 37% increase in London in the Wales. Instead, there is a great danger of the Budget same period. Indeed, all northern cities experienced reducing growth and increasing unemployment. Jobs slower rates of economic growth than the rest of the are important in Blaenau Gwent. My constituency has UK in the past decade. Frankly, if the Labour Government’s the high unemployment rate of almost 12%. We used to aim was to support the economies of the north, they rely on coal and steel, but those days are gone; now we failed. In contrast, the new Government have already need to develop a more balanced economy. We need announced that a new £1 billion regional growth fund green jobs, digital jobs and better services. We need to will be set up in 2011 to help those areas that will be help those who have been unemployed back into work. especially affected by reductions in public spending. We need the future jobs fund or a similar employment initiative, and, most important, we need it now. Another unfortunate aspect of Labour’s legacy was to leave areas completely dependent on public sector Before I elaborate on my argument, however, I want employment. That cannot be allowed to happen again, to talk about an important event that took place in and I urge the new Government to do all they can to Blaenau Gwent last week. On Monday 28 June we encourage the transition to private sector-led investment commemorated the 50th anniversary of the Six Bells and growth locally, regionally and nationally. Empowering mining disaster. That commemoration was a tremendous local communities will involve empowering individual event; thousands were there, including many relatives of business owners. By providing small and medium-sized the men killed that day. I met a Mrs Evans, a former businesses outside London, the south-east and the east senior nursing officer of the National Coal Board in of England with tax relief on national insurance Wales, who said that, apart from Aberfan, helping contributions, the Government are indeed encouraging attend to the bodies taken from the pit that night was small businesses to employ and expand in the next three the worst evening of her career. Wayne Thomas, secretary years, particularly in the neglected areas I discussed. of the south Wales National Union of Mineworkers told me that the wonderful steel and stone memorial is In addition to providing support to business and the biggest mines memorial in the country. I encourage encouraging private sector-led employment and growth, Members to visit the Six Bells memorial, as it is a it is also necessary for the Government to provide terrific reminder of the importance of coal and how it support for those who find themselves unemployed. has sometimes left a tragic mark on our communities. It Measures must be taken to ensure that a negative cycle is a wonderful, evocative and powerful piece of art, and of dependency does not take hold in the areas that it is also a reminder that while coal is still part of the suffer the most unemployment. Support must be targeted south Wales valleys, it will never again be the big and streamlined, because for too long, the previous employer it once was. Government’s various employment schemes were overly complicated, frustratingly bureaucratic and woefully I had hoped that the Minister would talk today about inefficient. Owing to the number of schemes, people policy plans that I would have found encouraging for slipped through the net and were lost in the system or Blaenau Gwent, but I have been disappointed by what I not contacted. The new Government’s Work programme have heard. For me, the Government’s plans must include needs to be accessible and straightforward, so that those that will deliver the programme. While Ministers anyone who finds themselves unemployed can get the have been quick to attack the future jobs fund, many help and advice they need swiftly and effortlessly. Support important lessons have been learned from that project. for the unemployed must be personal, local and flexible, That is certainly the case in Blaenau Gwent: that important and it must put the individual first. initiative has been managed by our borough council and it has led to our streets being cleaner, our environment Launching the Work programme, delivering personalised being cleaned up and our youngsters being kept out of support to the unemployed, cutting corporation tax trouble. Furthermore, the local people given work include and introducing regional growth funds are together the redundant workers, those who find it hard to keep down ingredients for a far more business-friendly environment a job and young teenage mums and dads. All those are in which our economic recovery can take place. The groups that I would hope the Government would want recovery, however, is far from secure, and it is essential to support back into employment and, in Blaenau that the Government continue to address unemployment Gwent, more than 500 people have, or will have, benefited and job creation with the same vigour and determination from this initiative in recent months. as they have shown to date. I strongly believe that the I must also say that I believe the Government have initial measures taken by the coalition are setting us on made a big mistake with their austerity Budget. At this the right course. However, those policies need to be difficult time, a better judgment would be to recognise implemented swiftly and reviewed regularly if we are to that the best way to boost employment is to grow the have progress on the ground. economy, not cut it back. In south Wales, it is likely that I urge the Government boldly to push forward on the Government will find that the private sector is too this crucial matter. We have inherited a horrendous weak to pick up the slack after Con-Dem cuts in the financial situation, and only the most robust and public sector. In the Financial Times last Wednesday it 447 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 448 was reported that the private sector is not ready to Member for North East Hertfordshire (Mr Heald) left employ the hundreds of thousands of public sector off. He talked about the lessons that must be learned workers likely to be laid off as a result of Budget cuts. from the past regarding welfare-to-work programmes. There was a study of 12 companies employing more It is a great pity that Opposition Members will not join than 375,000 people in various sectors, including household the Government parties in what should be one of the names like Morrisons, Jaguar, the Co-op and Arriva, most important challenges—uniting to make sure that and those companies said they had no plans to grow as people in this country get the work and employment the state shrinks. they need. Taking the bold and decisive action of creating Several companies have said that the financial situation a single Work programme that will streamline and focus is still too uncertain to consider recruiting. Experts such help for all those who need to get into work is essential. as Tim Leunig of the London School of Economics Taking action on employment is about creating a believe the economy is too frail for the private sector to fairer society and social justice. Work is the way out of grow and absorb jobs in the way it has in the past. That poverty and dependency, and it helps people to reach fatally undermines the Government’s argument. Mr Leunig their potential. The gaps in our society have grown in has said: the past 13 years, and nowhere more starkly can the “If the government thinks the private sector is automatically consequences be seen than in health inequalities. The going to step into the gap left by the public sector, it is sadly Marmot review which was published in February clearly mistaken.” demonstrates the links between the social and economic While there may be regional growth in the south-east, circumstances of people and their health. Key to closing and the home counties may prosper early as we come the gap in average life expectancy is improving people’s out of recession, we need investment in Wales through educational and work opportunities. We need to create the Assembly Government and local councils. We do an enabling society that maximises individual and not need a hope-and-a-prayer policy that somehow community potential. The benefits of reducing health assumes the private sector will ride to the rescue, as all inequalities are economic as well as social. The review our experience in recent years has been that that will not states: happen. “The cost of health inequalities can be measured in human terms, years of life lost and years of active life lost; and in I understand that the Government’s programme is economic terms, by the cost to the economy of additional illness. not set to start until next summer. Also, it appears to If everyone in England had the same death rates as the most include no guarantees that everyone will get work or advantaged, people who are currently dying prematurely as a training regardless of how hard to help they may be. result of health inequalities would, in total, have enjoyed between Given what we know so far, it seems that this is an 1.3 and 2.5 million extra years of life. They would, in addition, untested experiment on a large scale and carries considerable have had a further 2.8 million years free of limiting illness or risk to the country and constituencies such as mine. disability. It is estimated that inequality in illness accounts for productivity losses of £31-33 billion per year, lost taxes and All this compares badly with Labour’s employment higher welfare payments in the range of £20-32 billion per year, record. There are about half the number of young and additional NHS healthcare costs associated with inequality people signing on now than in the recessions under the are well in excess of £5.5 billion per year.” Tories. Long-term youth unemployment is under a third The current time of financial austerity is an of what it was when Labour came into office. Furthermore, opportunity—a time to plan to do things differently. because of Labour’s welfare reforms, investment in The welfare state and the NHS were born in a time of child care and family-friendly working policies, 365,000 austerity after the war. Today, we need to do the same more lone parents are in work now than in 1997. That and to have the same courage and determination to good and important record will be undermined by the ensure the well-being of future generations. Government’s Budget. Losing the future jobs fund is a mistake. It looks as 5.4 pm though it will be followed by another initiative in the medium term, but in the mean time we will lose important Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): Thank you, momentum and delivery, and hundreds, if not thousands, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this of people will miss out. The Government should listen debate, which is important not only for the country but now to the agencies that are doing the hard yards on job for my constituency. When we face difficult economic delivery. The indications are that employment growth in times, the primary task of Government is to protect the economy is still in the balance and that there is a real existing jobs and to provide all possible assistance to get danger of much higher unemployment in the months people who are out of work back into employment. If ahead. I am grateful that the Under-Secretary of State not tackled, unemployment can have long-term effects for Wales has agreed to come to Blaenau Gwent in the on society. It destroys communities, ruins lives and tears coming months to talk about employment. That is the very heart and fabric of society. generous of him, but if he is to make good on the Prime I was brought up in the south Wales valleys and I well Minister’s recent fine words about this fantastic work remember my first day at secondary school in 1987. I programme, he has much to deliver on. In the mean remember a teacher saying to me, “I’ve one tip for you, time, some very good work and much good will is being boy.” I said, “What’s that?” He said, “Have no ambition, squandered. because nobody from round here ever amounts to anything. If you’re lucky, you’ll have a job in a factory—if there 5.1 pm are any factories left when you leave school—but most probably you’ll be signing on.” For me, that summed up Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Thank the attitude of the Tory Government in the 1980s and I you for letting me join this important debate, Mr Deputy have not come to this place to see that happen ever Speaker. I want to pick up where my hon. Friend the again. 449 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 450

[Chris Evans] good for the whole country and for our economic future. The Welsh Assembly Government—the only I must tell the House that it has been only in the past Labour-led Administration in the UK—have introduced few years that our communities in the valleys have ProAct, a progressive scheme that offers funding for begun to recover, with the confidence that new jobs employee training and a wage subsidy while the training bring. Without the right Government support to encourage is being undertaken. Companies are eligible for ProAct job creation, we risk repeating the mistakes of the past. money only when they are on short-time working and To ensure we develop the right environment for new when, without ProAct funding, the company would jobs to be created, it is vital that we maintain growth. have to consider redundancies. ProAct not only keeps The Government have been keen to express sympathy people employed when they might otherwise be made for those facing unemployment. For Ministers, describing redundant but gives employees a wider skills base, meaning unemployment as a “tragedy” and mentioning helping that companies can use quiet periods to upskill their the “forgotten millions” of unemployed workers into staff. That is precisely the sort of thing that should be jobs might come easy, but it is action that counts. In happening across the United Kingdom. It has a positive contrast to those sentiments, the Government’s main impact for employers, employees and the wider economy. labour market policy so far has been to cut support for In addition, to help employers to keep people in unemployed people. The Government claim that the work, the Government also need to help those who are measures they are taking are necessary—after all, their currently out of work. It is particularly important that tough words about getting people off benefits and into we get young people who have never been employed work will be meaningless if there are no jobs to get into their first jobs. That is why the young person’s people into. guarantee and the future jobs fund were so crucial, yet To create real jobs we need real investment across the that flagship policy has been scrapped. country.Getting unemployment down requires two things: The Government claim that their new Work programme businesses must offer more jobs and the unemployed will meet the needs of unemployed workers. However, must have the necessary skills to enable them to take the there are several flaws to that argument. Nearly 2.5 million new jobs as they become available. That means that the people are unemployed now, and the impact of the cuts Government must invest in people and create the is that less support will be available to them and any environment in which the private sector can invest to other people who lose their jobs over the next year. In create jobs. If we cut too quickly, we will leave no room addition, the Work programme is essentially replacing for the Government to work with the private sector and the flexible new deal initiative. The experience provided make job creation possible. We need a real partnership by the future jobs fund and the guarantees was in between Government and the private sector. That requires addition to new deal measures. So far, no details are the Government to spend money to create jobs. The available on the funding for the Work programme. It question is how we can minimise job losses and prevent seems likely that, even when it is introduced, overall another lost generation in constituencies such as mine. investment in tackling unemployment may fall. The Government believe that if they cut public sector At the end of March 2011, the future jobs funds will employment and slash departmental spending, the private have funded more than 100,000 jobs, the majority of sector will ride to the rescue and fill the void. They seem which will have gone to 18 to 24-year-olds who have to have forgotten, however, that many private sector been out of work for six months. Given that the Secretary jobs are dependent on Government contracts. If of State for Work and Pensions has said that he wants departmental spending is slashed, those contracts are to get young people off benefits and into work, it vulnerable, as are the jobs that depend on them. If we absolutely beggars belief that one of the first acts was do not think seriously about the scale of cuts, there is a to cut a scheme that does exactly that. real risk that they will remove vital support for private sector industry and, crucially, for private sector jobs. I should like to take this opportunity to point out to Equally, however, it is vital that as companies develop the Secretary of State that, if people are to be asked to their employees’ sets of skills develop, too. travel to find work, it is vital that transport links are good enough to support them in doing so. In south That is where Train to Gain has been so important. Wales, there is no train link between Newport and Across the country, 1.3 million people go to work every Islwyn. Although there are plans to establish such a link day without the skills that they need to do their jobs by opening the Gaer junction, there is still no timetable well. That affects productivity and limits how successful for doing so. I ask the Government to ensure that that those employees can be. Often, though, employers are project goes ahead, so that the people of Islwyn and unwilling or unable to provide the extra training needed Blaenau Gwent can commute to work in Newport and for their staff to realise their potential. It is only when the surrounding areas. the Government offer assistance that training opportunities can be realised and employees can fulfil their potential. We should be striving for growth, but the Budget will It is therefore critical to our economic future that we mean lower growth and more unemployment. The invest in training and upskilling our people. In the US, Government are making the wrong decisions in all 80% of people in work have been back in a training those areas, and it shows me that they believe, as they situation since leaving school. In Germany and Japan, believed in the 1980s, that unemployment is a price the figure is 56%, but it is only 30% here. That is the worth paying to cut the deficit. [HON.MEMBERS: “Oh.”] measure of how far we still have to travel to improve Yes, they think that unemployment is a price worth training and opportunities for our people. paying. Train to Gain benefits both employers, by increasing the abilities of their workers, and employees, by giving Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): Will the hon. them the skills they need to succeed. That in turn is Gentleman give way? 451 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 452

Chris Evans: No, I am making progress. cottage industry of providers, all of which make money Those of us who represent areas that lost out the last out of the taxpayer in trying to deliver the same services. time that the Tories were in government know that the It is imperative that the Government simplify, as they cost of unemployment is too high. I urge the Government are doing, the 12 support-for-work programmes. I to reconsider before they condemn areas such as mine congratulate the new team on the steps that they have to large-scale unemployment all over again. taken to integrate everything into a single get-back-to-work programme. I do not want to be wholly negative about the 5.12 pm interventions under the previous Government. I was a Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): There have been governor of Stourbridge further education college in quite a lot of references to history in this debate. In the my constituency, and a good programme was developed first few hours, which I sat through and enjoyed, many with Westfield, the company that manages the retail such references were made, including by the shadow centre, and it was known as the retail academy. It took Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the right hon. long-term unemployed people, such as women who had Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford left the workplace to have a family, who had not been (Yvette Cooper), who said that she left school in the able to get back into work and who had lost their 1980s and that many of her friends became unemployed confidence. They did not have to lose their benefits. The in the early ’80s. As I was born a decade earlier, I had a programme wasa9to5commitment, and more than ringside seat in the decades that led to the 1980s. Throughout half of them managed to get proper long-term jobs in the ’60s and ’70s, various Labour Governments presided the retail sector. I would not want to imply that all the over truly disastrous industrial intervention policies. individual programmes were a waste of money—of I, too, come from Coventry, as does the hon. Member course some of them helped, and I am sure that we will for Wakefield (Mary Creagh), who also contributed to learn from them—but simplification and better the history lessons in the debate. She will remember the co-ordination is key, as another example that I want to creation of British Leyland, the demise of our car share with the House demonstrates. industry, the massive subsidies that those Labour A few weeks ago, like me, some Members will have Governments poured into failing companies and failing visited the manufacturing insight conference that took industries, combined with marginal personal tax rates place just off Westminster Hall. I was struck by the of up to 98%. In the end of course, as we all know, the story of a managing director of a small business in country had to be rescued by the International Monetary Lincolnshire employing about 30 people who wanted to Fund. That is what led to unemployment in the 1980s, access training for her finance staff. They wanted NVQ not the Governments led by Margaret Thatcher. level 2 finance training, but in order to qualify she had A pattern developed during those previous Labour to guarantee that eight people from her workplace Governments, just as it has done in the past 13 years, would attend the course. She did not have eight people and it results in the end in rising unemployment. Every who needed the course, but there was only one provider Labour Government, I believe, have left office with that she could approach, and it was subcontracted by unemployment higher than when they came to office. another provider that had the contract with the college. We must not forget that in a debate on unemployment. All these providers and subcontracted providers take Unemployment among the young is greater now than it a slice of taxpayers’ money, which is another reason was in 1997. During the past five years there has been a why we must simplify and codify the work, so that just 72% rise in my constituency of people on jobseeker’s one company or social enterprise is charging the taxpayer allowance, more than a quarter of whom are between a fee for delivering a much-needed service. Business the ages of 18 and 24. Much has been said about the needs support, but it knows, for the most part, what it tragedy of unemployment among this age group, with needs to employ people, and we must give companies which I agree. much more direct access to the funding. They should not have to go through all these multiple layers of Alison McGovern: Does the hon. Lady think that it is provision, and they should not have to go through appropriate to compare unemployment in 1997 with regional development agencies, Business Link and so unemployment today, at two completely different points on—they should be able to access the vital help much in the economic cycle? That is not how economists more easily. would normally do it. Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): Does my Margot James: The previous Government inherited hon. Friend agree that laudable aims sometimes have falling unemployment in 1997, and it steadily increased perverse consequences? She will no doubt have come during the first decade of this century. We have been across people on the doorstep—usually women—who through a couple of economic cycles during that time, want to work more, but because of the extremely complex but historically unemployment is always greater when a tax credit system built up by the former Government, it Labour Government leave office than when they arrive. is simply not worth their while working. They therefore Rising unemployment under Labour Governments is have an incentive to stay at home and remain on benefits, always followed by a lot of well-meaning interventions which cannot be right for them, their families or the to try to support people back into work. That is a wider community. laudable aim, with which we all agree, but it leads, as it has during the past five or six years, to a confusing Margot James: I thank my hon. Friend for that array of individual benefit programmes that create a excellent intervention. It is absolutely true. We have to flourishing array of different funding streams and agencies, create a situation in which people do not fall off the face and they grow like Topsy. They beget a flourishing of a cliff when they lose their benefits over night, as 453 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 454

[Margot James] 5.25 pm soon as they take on a job for not that many hours a Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): I wish to week. It is a poverty trap—it traps the children as well focus my remarks specifically on young people, and as the parents—so we have to address that. He raises an with that in mind I should like to comment on what my important matter. hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) said. Like him, I grew up in the 1980s in a part of the world We have talked a lot in this debate about various where it sometimes felt as though very few people had Government support initiatives with which we will continue any faith in us. That motivated many of us in the House under the new simplified Work programme. However, who come from such parts of our country to stand for let us not forget that what the private sector really needs election and stand up for investment in young people is a vibrant economy. First and foremost, that is what today. drives jobs. It is not rocket science: we need an educated and skilled work force; controlled immigration, so that With that in mind, I wish to say a few words on businesses are not tempted simply to seize on quickly business confidence and its importance for young people’s available, easy and cheap labour—we really must stop employment prospects. I was concerned to read about that—a benefits system that does not discourage people the Deloitte survey of FTSE 100 directors of finance from going into work, as my hon. Friend the Member that was reported this week. The report explained that for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) mentioned; and, above those finance directors saw an increased probability of all, a low tax and a light regulatory regime that encourages a double-dip recession, up five percentage points from a investment, rewards risk and stimulates growth. That is 33% to a 38% likelihood in the past three months. That our golden vision on the Conservative Benches, that is was attributed to the Government’s policies. That concerns what we will deliver over five years, and that is what the me, because the last thing that I want is falling business Budget was all about. confidence that will cause this country similar problems to those that we saw in France and other European I am pleased to say that, despite the dire economic countries years ago. At times when business did not circumstances we are having to deal with, and the want to invest, people at the start of their careers were deficit reduction plan that has been forced upon us, we disproportionately affected, and young people suffered are making great headway in creating the conditions for much more than others in their career progression in business that I just described. I will conclude by running times of downturn. I call on the Government to guard through some of the excellent programmes that will against that. drive the recovery. For a start, the employers’ national insurance increase will be tempered and the planned In addition to the importance of business confidence increase on the employers’ side will not go ahead. and the Government demonstrating counter-cyclical Although the employees’ side will go ahead, it will be measures, I have a few comments to make at a practical compensated for by the raising of the nil rate on personal level. Throughout the election and since being elected tax allowances. We are also looking at tax relief for to the House, I have been concerned about what is small businesses, and the first 10 members of staff in happening in my local Jobcentre Plus. The people who any business will be exempt from national insurance work at that centre in Bromborough, about a mile away contributions. from where I was born and grew up, work incredibly hard and responded very well throughout the recession Whenever I do a survey of businesses in Stourbridge, to help people who had been made redundant and I find that one of the biggest complaints is the cost of suffered unemployment. business rates, and by increasing the small business rate relief for one year from October, we will help an estimated Over recent months, there has been a real threat of 500,000 small businesses. Furthermore, as a west midlands that jobcentre losing some of its work force. They have Member, I can say with great passion that the regional built up their capacity and skills to try to encourage growth fund and the commitment of £1 billion will help people back to work and to find the best avenues for areas and communities particularly affected by the spending them, but now the centre is working under the shadow reductions forced upon us. There are other regional of the threat of losing its work force and their skills policies designed to correct the balance as far as we can. when they are most needed. I call on the Government to The number of jobs in the boom years created in consider the matter carefully and not cut away front-line London, the south-east and the east rose at 10 times the Jobcentre Plus staff at the very time when we need them rate of new jobs everywhere else in the economy. Having most. come from the west midlands, worked for many years in Members have mentioned the future jobs fund. Although London and gone back to the west midlands, it is my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State has deeply striking to me how we have almost become two already referred to the Prime Minister’s comments, it is nations. I am therefore delighted that my right hon. appropriate for me to say again that when he visited Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer is so committed Liverpool, he said that the future jobs fund was “a good to helping regions outside London, the south-east and scheme” and that the east. “we’ve got to help people who are unemployed for a long time Finally, I wish to acknowledge the words of the and social enterprises like this help. It demonstrates where giving Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, more power and control to projects like these works.” who has said that I was struck by the comments made to me by my “the Government’s role is to create the right business environment friend John, who is a trustee of an older people’s charity and the right skills base. The Government cannot simply keep in Wirral. He told me about the two young men who writing out cheques.” came to work for the organisation, doing practical tasks That is the nub of how we propose to stimulate the in the building where the charity is housed, and described recovery that this country so urgently needs. the confidence boost that this had given them and the 455 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 456 important skills that they were learning. Those jobs Margot James: Will the hon. Lady give way? would not necessarily be jobs for life, but they were going to keep the CVs of those young men consistent. Alison McGovern: I will make a bit of progress, if that That example, along with the evidence from the Prime is okay. Minister, shows that perhaps the Government could We should recognise that the downturn that we have have thought more carefully about the future jobs fund. faced has been worse for graduates from lower-income The Government’s decision, added to the loss of the backgrounds, and there are a few reasons for that. young person’s guarantee, has caused me real concern Graduates from lower-income backgrounds are much about the prospects for young people in my constituency less likely to go on to further study. When I was studying and the part of the world where I grew up. philosophy at University college London, at a time I hope that the House will permit me a small amount when the economy was growing, I remember my tutor of partisanship. saying to me that downturns were always good for philosophy departments, because they kept hold of Mr Stewart Jackson: Before the hon. Lady continues, people who would otherwise have gone straight into the let me say that the House would be slightly more City, as their parents could pay for them to do a accommodating of her partisanship—which is no doubt master’s degree or something like that for a few years. coming—if she were willing to admit that the number We need to recognise that graduates from lower income of NEETs under her Government was the highest ever backgrounds are less able to progress their careers, and that the further education capital programme was a because they are less likely to have the informal networks calamitous disaster. The corollary of that negative news that will help them as graduates to take the first steps is that this Government are setting up 50,000 more into their careers. Unless we are able to rebuild business apprenticeship places and expanding higher education. confidence, even graduates will continue to face difficulties. In the spirit of fairness, surely she can concede that her I return to my original point that the key to unlocking Government made mistakes and that this Government the problem of unemployment, especially among young have new and fresh ideas. people, is to improve business confidence and to ensure that the private sector and the public sector continue to Alison McGovern: I will certainly concede that any invest in jobs. plans to increase the number of apprenticeships are welcome. Such plans are vital for my constituency and, In liaising with the CBI in the north-west on I am sure, the hon. Gentleman’s constituency too. When apprenticeships, I heard about companies in Wirral that I meet the people from Wirral borough council who were very keen to employ local young people. I talked to work on the Wirral apprenticeship scheme and they tell those companies at length about how we could support me about the proactive way in which they have helped them in their endeavour to build new infrastructure in young people not in employment, education or training Wirral while training young people in my area. Those in my area, I can only applaud their work and hope that companies were working on vital infrastructure projects we will support them on a cross-party basis to continue such as Building Schools for the Future, and the problem that work. In that regard, where there are increases in with the Government’s decision to cut the deficit more the number of young people who face the threat of quickly than we would have liked is that the withdrawal unemployment or who are not in employment, education of Government input into the economy will be counter- or training, we all need to redouble our efforts and find productive because those companies will no longer feel what can be done. We are all aware of the potentially that they have the backing of the Government to hire scarring impact of that not just on those young people, young people and build up their skills. but on their families and communities. Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con) rose— The tenfold increase that we have seen in apprenticeships in Wirral since 1997, which I mentioned in an intervention, has been so welcome partly because of its intergenerational Nick de Bois rose— aspect and how it has built up our community. Parents no longer feel that the options for their young people Alison McGovern: I should like to make some progress. are university or nothing very much. They are now I do not want to prevent others from speaking in the starting to feel that there might be some options; so, to debate. respond to the hon. Gentleman, as Members of this I fear that that withdrawal of Government input, House we must redouble our efforts to focus on especially in areas where the employment picture, though apprenticeships and encourage business to invest. However, recovering, is historically fragile, will result in more that needs to involve the public and private sectors people on the dole, which will make it even more working hand in hand. It is important to recognise that difficult for us to reduce the deficit. we cannot expect those in the private sector to take a chance on young people where the public sector locally is not working alongside them. 5.37 pm As well as talking about those who go into Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): I want to apprenticeships, I want to say a few words about graduates. talk about one of the biggest challenges that the coalition In this discussion about unemployment, we need to Government, the House and the country face: the issues recognise that getting a degree these days is no magic of jobs and unemployment in our country, and what the bullet to securing a future career, and we must not Government can do to tackle them. The Opposition pretend that it is. In fact, we need to encourage young motion would be hard to support in any circumstances, people, both pre-university and while they are there, to but it would be more credible if it had started with an gain the work-relevant skills that will assist them with apology. Nearly 2.5 million people are now unemployed. their careers. To put that in perspective, that is 500,000 more than the 457 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 458

[Nadhim Zahawi] make it clear that that does not take account of the 2.6 million people in receipt of incapacity benefit and entire population of Slovenia, a nation that we recently employment and support allowance. Ours is the nation played in the World cup. That is a terrible figure, and with the highest number of workless households in also a terrible legacy to have inherited from the previous Europe. There were 5.9 million working-age benefit Government. claimants in November 2009, and we have an incapacity benefit system that makes it more likely that those on it Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): will die or reach pension age on it, rather than getting Will the hon. Gentleman give way? another job after two years of claiming. That is the legacy we have been left. Nadhim Zahawi: I will not, as I would like to make The last Government have clearly failed. They led some headway in my speech. this great nation for 13 years, and that is the record that Following the election of the new Government, it has been left. They may point to and blame the recession; immediately became clear to us that we faced a series of they may claim that factors out of their control led to immense challenges in tackling unemployment and this situation; but I say no, they cannot so easily shirk worklessness. Let us be honest—those problems have the responsibility that the people of Britain placed on not come about purely because of the recession. Over them in 1997. They claimed that they would take “Britain the past decade, the very fabric of this nation has been forward not back”, yet it is backwards that we have altered. This is now a nation of huge government and gone: back to the dole queue, back to unemployment, huge inefficiency, and one that does not do much for and back to poverty. It is now up to us, the coalition those looking for work. Instead, it seems to encourage Government, to rectify the mistakes of the past and those who do not want to work. Those factors have ensure that once again we “Get Britain working”. undermined this country’s competitiveness, its efficiency Of course, an enormous number of areas must be and—perhaps most importantly—its social fabric. discussed if we are both to understand and to begin to This is a self-aggravating situation. Those who are deal with this problem: the welfare system and what we brought up in workless households are themselves more can do to change and streamline it, the huge problem of likely to experience worklessness, welfare dependency youth unemployment, and what we can do to help lone and poverty in later life. This is not an issue we can parents back into work. But as a business man myself ignore. It is vital that we address the causes and begin to and a keen believer in the power that enterprise in the secure solutions to these enormous problems. That can UK has in job creation, I intend to focus on that area. I be done by making changes to the way in which the am a firm believer in creating real jobs in the real welfare state is operated. My right hon. Friend the economy. We have made it clear that a key element of Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan our programme is boosting economic growth and, as a Smith), alongside the right hon. Member for Birkenhead direct result, creating jobs to ensure that Britain has an (Mr Field) and John Hutton, the former Member for economic climate in which private enterprise can compete Barrow and Furness, have the historical credibility and and invest with confidence. It is vital that we ensure that experience to make a real difference. Focusing on key jobs are available both for those looking for work, and issues such as the long-term unemployed and the high for those whom we will try to get into work. level of youth employment is critical. Business is another key area in which a real impact Mr Stewart Jackson: Does my hon. Friend agree with can be made. Supporting our businesses and reducing my comparison between what the Conservative party the regulation that strangles them will lead to more did in government in the 1980s, when they brought opportunity and more jobs. That is a tried and tested about a real transfer of wealth and capital to working solution and one that I, as a business man, will address people through shared ownership and the right to buy, shortly, but for now I feel that I cannot ignore the and what the Labour Government did, which was to record of those sitting opposite me. After 13 years of a ossify social mobility and widen the gap between the Labour Government, huge numbers of people are living richest and the poorest 10% in our country? off the welfare state. A whole swathe of society has been led to believe that the culture of aspiration and hard Nadhim Zahawi: My hon. Friend is right. One example work on which Britain has long prided itself can be is the way in which the gap between the south-east and ignored in favour of welfare and idleness. Yet I do not the rest of the country has grown. Labour Members blame those people, because it is the last Government just do not seem to understand what it takes to create who allowed that culture to become ingrained in the an enterprise economy. British psyche. It is the last Government who bloated not only the welfare state but the public sector. I would Mr Anderson: Further to the point made by the hon. never accuse them of doing that for reasons of self-interest, Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson), a lot of people but the questions have to be asked: why was it allowed were made wealthy in the 1980s, and 200,000 coal to happen, and what can we do to rectify it? miners got £20,000 to go on the dole queue—paid out Let me turn briefly to the figures, for they do not lie. of the public purse. As I mentioned earlier, unemployment is now just shy of 2.5 million, with nearly 1.5 million people claiming Nadhim Zahawi: And your point is? At the end of the jobseeker’s allowance. We also have 1.7 million people day, you only have to look at the facts. The facts are that who are long-term unemployed, having been without a you have left us with a legacy of £500 million a day— job for at least 12 months. Of those, 1.4 million have been on out-of-work benefit for nine or more years; that Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I did is a deep rut that is hard to climb out of. I should also not leave anybody with a legacy of anything. 459 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 460

Nadhim Zahawi: It is not sustainable to follow the All of these are key measures in ensuring that our path of the previous Government and bloat the public businesses have the opportunity to thrive and, more sector. Business needs confidence to invest. Our first importantly, to hire. Budget last month has laid the groundwork for these The level of unemployment in this country is a huge aims. We will drop the headline rate of corporation tax problem, but I am confident that, with the new coalition by 1% each year for the next four years, lowering it to Government in power, we can address and reduce it. 24%. We have ended the disastrous jobs tax that the last This issue requires a complete set of solutions, all of Government tried to introduce for employers, a key which need to be implemented together in an effective policy in ensuring that our businesses once again begin and decisive manner. to hire people. If we balance the books of Government, hold down The measures in this Budget are intended to give interest rates, encourage business to invest and reduce businesses the confidence to invest for the long term, the regulation that strangles business, I believe that, at and to reduce the burden of tax and regulation. One the very least, we will ensure that there are jobs available area where we need to, and can, do more, is in funding for those who want them and an economy that can for business. If we expect business to take up the slack support them. of the reduction in the size of government, we must I support the amendment to the motion. send it a clear message on funding. There is a disconnect between what the banks are telling us regarding the amount they are lending and what businesses are Several hon. Members rose— experiencing and telling us about the access they have to funding. I hope that in my new role as a member of the Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. There are still several Business, Innovation and Skills Committee we can spend Members who wish to catch my eye. The Front-Bench some of our time inquiring as to how we can alter that speakers will be called at half-past 6, so the House will dynamic. see that we have only 40 minutes or so. I hope, therefore, that hon. Members will show restraint and try not to go over six minutes, although the one maiden speech that is Nick de Bois: Will my hon. Friend add to that the to be made may be slightly longer. outrageous attack on many SMEs, with banks inflating margins for captive customers with nowhere else to go? Does he welcome the opportunity for competition in 5.51 pm that marketplace? Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): Thank you for allowing me to speak, Mr Deputy Speaker. Nadhim Zahawi: My hon. Friend is right, and that is I wanted to speak in this debate because employment one of the areas I am passionate about. is of such great concern in my constituency. It is absolutely vital that we invest in the talent of local people in Thomas Docherty: I am deeply puzzled that the hon. different areas around the country, and that their talent Gentleman argues, on the one hand, for less intervention is not wasted. The hopes and aspirations of people who and regulation, and on the other that the privately want to contribute to our economy must not be cast owned banks have to be instructed to lend more money. aside in the way that I believe that this Government will Which argument is he making this evening? do. In Bethnal Green and Bow, unemployment is just Nadhim Zahawi: That is not the point I was making. under 11%, significantly higher than the national rate. If the hon. Gentleman had been listening carefully, he The experiences of white working-class groups and of would have realised that my point is that we have to ethnic minority groups—especially those of British- inquire into what is happening. I am not talking about Bangladeshi or Somali origin—are particularly challenging. instructions, but about understanding the dynamic so They face the double whammy of trying to find work in that we can create a similar environment to that in difficult circumstances and in a difficult economic climate, Silicon valley, for example, where people can get access but also of the social class barriers, and the ethnic to funding more easily than in our country. penalties that are well documented by Cabinet Office research. As a business man, I also know first hand the damaging results that over-burdening business with regulation has Unemployment is my constituency is faced by people on British companies. It is imperative that we reduce who live only a stone’s throw from the City and Canary regulation. The coalition Government aim to do just Wharf. They see the wealth and opportunities there, but that. The level of regulation in this country is simply struggle to reach them. Even during the boom years, staggering, and another example of the top-down unemployment was higher than the national rate, and bureaucratic approach taken by the last Government. youth and graduate unemployment were also high. The Institute of Directors has estimated the annual cost Businesses in the City and Canary Wharf made efforts of regulation to UK business at £80 billion, and has to recruit people, but not enough. We need the private stated that the ever-increasing burden of paperwork sector, Government and local agencies to work together hinders business from growing and, ultimately, creating to create opportunities, and we need the Government to jobs. That is why we have announced plans fundamentally support those opportunities and enable that sort of to review all regulations scheduled for introduction over cross-organisational working. the coming year. We will put in place a system of sunset We also need the voluntary sector. Through organisations clauses so that regulations cease to be law after seven such as City Gateway in my constituency, and with the years, and we have also created the one in, one out rule help of the future jobs fund and the working to reduce for ever the regulation created in Whitehall. neighbourhoods fund, it has made enormous progress 461 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 462

[Rushanara Ali] support from the private sector, the Government and the voluntary sector. I hope that that is the spirit in in trying to get people into work. Funding like that is an which this Government will seek to work. enabler, and we need that kind of support if we are to The cost of unemployment is ill health, depression get people into work. and anxiety; it is many social consequences that we Tower Hamlets has managed to cut unemployment—not cannot afford. I regret that unemployment remains high enough, but it has made significant progress. The current for some sections and that some people continue to feel proposals stand to damage that progress. In my left behind. I acknowledge that my party did not achieve constituency, a lot of positive work is being done across as much as it would have liked to have done, but the fact sectors. I hope that this Government will look at ways is that my party never walked away from people who to enable that to continue. needed support in constituencies such as mine. I am saddened that £1 million of the working neighbourhoods fund has already been cut. That is not Matthew Hancock: I thank the hon. Lady for a very a good sign. Figures show that 9.6% of young people thoughtful speech. Will she join me in welcoming the are NEETs—that is, not in education, employment or new Government’s proposal to increase the number of training—and that is too high, but in Tower Hamlets we apprenticeships, because she mentioned that earlier? have managed to reduce that proportion to 6%. That is a fall of 40%, and it could not have happened without Rushanara Ali: I welcome any effort to try to help help from the Government, or without the September people to get work but, as I said in my earlier intervention, guarantee and the future jobs fund. it is important to ensure that training programmes are meaningful. I would say that to my own party and my I remind the House that 8,500 young people across own Government—in fact, I lobbied my Government London managed to stay off the dole queue thanks to to keep making progress, because that is the right thing the help of Government interventions. I also appeal to to do. The point is that there is no guarantee of a job at the Government not to delay the introduction of the the end of this. Young people, with whom I have spent programme that has been announced of setting up some years working, need to be convinced that when 50,000 apprenticeships. If they do delay, it will be a case they get involved with these programmes, there will be a of “too little, too late”: we cannot afford to waste the result and the programme is meaningful, not a fudge. talent and potential of people in this country. That must be our focus. I welcome the 50,000 apprenticeship The Conservative mantra in the 1980s was, “If it’s opportunities, but people will have to wait until next not hurting, it’s not working.” The unemployment rate spring. What am I meant to say to my constituents, who then was very high, but that is not a price that is ever have been waiting for help from this Government? We worth paying. I hope that people across the House contributed support. The problem is that the recent recognise that. Research by Cardiff university found announcements, whereby all this is to be left until next that unemployment was associated with a doubling of spring, are not good enough. the suicide rate, so let us not forget the kind of damage I wish to conclude by saying that we must not fail the that can be done, especially by unemployment of men. challenge of trying to help people get into work. We must give them hope, we must realise their potential and Jake Berry: Does the hon. Lady agree that, after we must help them to meet their aspirations. We have 13 years of a Labour Government, it is a disgrace that not seen evidence of investment in the aspiration that one in five people under the age of 24 is out of work? the Prime Minister talked so much about when he was Does she think that has been a price worth paying for campaigning. I hope that we will see that and that this having 13 years of a Labour Government? Government will not turn their back on the people who want to contribute to this society and this economy, and Rushanara Ali: The Labour Government made every whose potential we need for economic growth. I hope attempt to help people into work. There are great that this coalition Government will deliver a progressive challenges and complex circumstances in helping and solution, not one that leaves people behind. enabling people to work, but at least the Labour Government did not shirk their responsibility. At least 5.59 pm they tried to support people, as Labour Governments George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Thank you, will always do. I appeal to the coalition Government to Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to make my try to provide support, so that people can achieve their maiden speech in this important debate about jobs and potential. This is not about handouts; it is about giving unemployment. I take my seat in the shadow of three a helping hand. That is the progressive route to supporting eminent predecessors, all of whom have been gracious communities. enough, with some help from the Boundary Commission, to cede portions of their constituencies to the new Mid Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con) rose— Norfolk constituency. They are my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson), who represented Rushanara Ali: I am short of time, so I would like to Mid Norfolk with great distinction, my hon. Friend the make some progress and share the following example. Member for South Norfolk (Mr Bacon) and the former At a recent employment fair in my constituency, 10,000 Member for South West Norfolk, all of whom are held people were queuing up for jobs, but there were only in the highest esteem locally and in this House. 1,000 places at the work fair. That does not show that Mr Deputy Speaker, you are no doubt thinking, people are not interested in jobs or that people will sit “Where is Mid Norfolk?” Indeed, its boundaries have idly by waiting for opportunities to come to them; they baffled many of its constituents since being redrawn. want to work, they want opportunities and they need Centred on Dereham, the ancient heart of Norfolk, it 463 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 464 includes the three market towns of Attleborough, Watton businesses and jobs back in our villages and towns; less and Wymondham, and 110 charming villages. I should commuting; a richer mix of ages; and blue and white-collar like to take the House on a quick—130-mile—tour that jobs in active communities. I have had the great pleasure to make by bicycle in Some may ask, “Where are those new jobs and businesses stages over the past three years, in the spirit of past to come from?” Let me tell the House. Situated between parliamentarians, such as most famously, William Cobbett, Norwich and Cambridge are two of the world’s leading on horseback, and more latterly my hon. Friend the centres of scientific research and innovation in food, Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart), on biomedicine and the clean technologies of which my foot. Following the instruction of the former Member hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park for Chingford, and more recently the example of my (Zac Goldsmith) spoke earlier, all of which are so vital right hon. Friend the Prime Minister—perhaps the only to the global challenges that we face, Mid Norfolk is time that they have agreed—I opted to go by bike. perfectly positioned to become a hub of entrepreneurial We start at The Crown in Colkirk, the northernmost activity and new jobs. With the world-leading John point and only a few furlongs south of the magnificent Innes centre, the Institute of Food Research, world-class Fakenham race course. We then pass through Beeston, agriculture and high-tech engineering along the A11 home of a new micro-brewery and the excellent “Worth corridor, we can lead those new economic sectors on the Wait” ale, which I hope the House might feel is which we will increasingly depend. worth a glass after my maiden speech; Dereham, the As someone who came to politics after a 15-year capital, which received its charter in the 16th century; career in creating new technology businesses, I hope to Swanton Morley, the home of the Light Dragoons, be able to put my experience to good use in that area. whom I know the House will want to thank for their However, that revolution cannot happen without two brave service to our country; Hingham, the home of essential things: new models of investment in infrastructure, Abraham Lincoln’s family and the re-launched Lotus including the A11, rural broadband and rail links; and motor racing team; Wymondham, with its famous abbey, some local leadership. crucible of Robert Kett’s revolution and home to The stale post-war model of statist centralisation and Wymondham college, a rare state boarding school, and dependence on the Whitehall handout has failed Norfolk Wymondham high, two of the top state schools in the and needs replacing if we are to have a sustainable country; Attleborough, home of Banham Poultry, our recovery. The benefits of this empowerment and liberalism largest local business, and Liftshare, the world’s fastest- will not just be economic. Rural Britain is, I believe, the growing car-share company, set up in a former turkey repository of some important virtues that our modern shed by a local entrepreneur; and Watton, heart of the culture has neglected: a deep belief in self-help and Wayland valley and home of the famous horse fair. responsibility; an insistence that everybody in a community Eschewing the metropolitanism of Norwich, Fakenham, has a role, and the rejection of a shallow media culture’s Thetford and Swaffham which guard its perimeter, Mid obsession with celebrity; and a love of the small, the Norfolk is the rural core of this most rural and historic different, and the local. These are qualities that are county, a county that I need hardly remind the House deeply rooted in the English character. has given us our first Prime Minister, Sir Robert Walpole, The people of Mid Norfolk sent me here to speak up our greatest military hero, Horatio Nelson, and the for them, so I shall. My constituents, proud of those seeds of the agricultural and, therefore, industrial revolution, values, have found themselves increasingly powerless in courtesy of Coke of Holkham and “Turnip Townshend”. the face of a tidal wave of legislation and “big government” The turnip is a vegetable that has had a tricky press of from Europe, Whitehall, and unaccountable regional late, but it is held in the very highest esteem in Norfolk. quangos. Many worry that our culture has been hijacked My constituency has come of late to feel increasingly by an increasingly intolerant, politically correct “anything marginalised, however. Tackling that sense of goes” multiculturalism which seems to have too little marginalisation in order to unlock the talents and respect for the longer traditions of tolerance, personal aspirations of its people are, and will remain, the central freedom and responsibility embedded in our traditional theme of my work as its MP. The people of Mid heritage. By pumping the bellows of local empowerment, Norfolk feel marginalised by the decision-making process I believe that we can reignite the embers of a culture and too often forced to change in ways that they have which can and should be allowed to coexist with neither chosen nor like. The small, local, voluntary and metropolitan Britain, to mutual benefit. rural is all too often crowded out by the big, national, At the heart of this manifesto is a big idea: that professional and urban. As reported this week, rural citizenship is not forged through the dependence on the Britain has been especially hard hit by unemployment state as espoused by new Labour and its philosopher during this recession, and my constituency has pockets king, Anthony Giddens, but through the empowering of rural deprivation which are often hidden and invisible act of the state granting responsibility to its citizens. to the passer-by. Pensioner poverty can be especially That is the central idea which has brought me into invisible. politics as a Conservative, and which I am delighted is Post offices, pubs and village shops close, while more once again the idea at the heart of modern Conservatism and more people are forced to commute increasing and this coalition. distances from the mass housing estates that have been I hope that the House might allow me to close on a forced on our market towns and councils. In my three-year personal note. As no doubt for all hon. Members, candidacy I insisted on another way. Opposition Members taking my seat in this great House is the culmination of might call it a third way, but we call it the Norfolk way: a long journey and a lifetime’s dream. I can recall very a vision of a vibrant rural society based on a renaissance clearly when that seed was sown: coming here on a of rural enterprise; smaller pockets of mixed housing school trip aged 12, inspired by childhood stories of my spread more fairly and sustainably; fast-growing small great-uncle Gladstone. As the child of a broken and at 465 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 466

[George Freeman] of public support. The offshore wind projects in the River Forth would not have happened without public that time unhappy home, I recall seeing the worn edges support. of the Dispatch Box and being struck by a deeply During the election campaign, a construction engineer reassuring idea: that whoever and wherever you are in in my constituency told me that he was seriously worried our country, there is a place where the nation takes about school building projects drying up because his responsibility for its affairs, a place where your problem firm had been associated with those nationally and in matters, a place here, for you, whoever you are. I still Scotland for all the years of the previous Labour believe there is no greater honour than to be sent here Government. However, in 2007, the Scottish Government by a constituency to serve. I believe the public want to came under the control of the Scottish National party. believe that too, and want this new Parliament to raise They chose—they were not forced—not to use public- aloft the standard of a politics of which we can all be private partnership, which was Labour’s funding proud. I thank the people of Mid Norfolk for the mechanism. As a result, they have been unable to start a chance to be part of that, and I thank the House for its single new school in my area, because they have not patience this evening. come up with another form of funding, meaning that my constituent’s employment prospects are much Several hon. Members rose— diminished. That was before public funding was cut further. If that construction engineer—he has always Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Five Members are trying worked in the private sector—were asked whether he to get in; if they restrict themselves to five minutes, could manage without public sector, he would say no. everybody will do so. Another big myth that is being perpetrated is that increased funding for welfare spending—I do not 6.7 pm particularly like that term—means that it is all being spent on people who sit at home doing nothing. That is Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Thank you, not true. One of the big triumphs of the Labour Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this Government was to create a situation in which single debate. parents, for example, can work. Single parents have In the few weeks that I have been here, it feels a little been enabled to work, but only a very low proportion of as though I have walked into an Alice in Wonderland them used to work, even compared with other countries, world where everything has been turned on its head. A because the benefits system made it very difficult for lot of myth-making has been going on. If one says them to do so. Tax credits, which come under the big something often enough, even if it is not true, people heading of welfare spending, are designed specifically will come to believe it. I have to say, as somebody who to let people work. That is what they are about. They studied history, that we need to ask what sort of regimes are not about people sitting at home doing nothing. are particularly good at doing that. I trust, and I am That is another myth. sure, that my constituents will not fall for these myths. I was interested to hear another hon. Member praise So what are the myths? Myth No. 1, which concerns a an academy project. We have set up similar projects in terribly important issue, is that Labour causes Edinburgh. I hear people talking about having a single, unemployment. Let us take 1997, and let us take 2010, unitary, simplified form of training; the point is that it after a major recession, and then allege that during the must be relevant to particular areas. Our training was in course of the Labour Government we have had high health care, because we had brand new hospitals, but unemployment. If my constituents were asked which one size will not fit all. were the recent periods of long unemployment, they Let us give up on the myths and talk about the reality. would not say the period from 1997 to 2008 but the I hope that our prediction that things will not go well in periods of the 1980s and the 1990s—they know that full the next few years does not come true, but my constituents well. By the mid-part of this decade, we had reached a are very afraid. position in Edinburgh whereby unemployment had been virtually reduced to a hard-core minimum. We had a 6.13 pm very healthy economy for all that time, so it is simply not true to suggest that we have had a period of Labour John Howell (Henley) (Con): May I begin by paying Government with high unemployment. tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk Neither is it true that we have the highest unemployment (George Freeman), whose maiden speech was erudite, figures in Europe—I do not know where that that sophisticated and entertaining? It has almost persuaded comes from. A year ago, my cousin from Spain came to me to abandon my plan to go and live in the south of visit and told me that he was very worried because France in my retirement—when the date comes, a long Spain’s unemployment stood at 19% or 20%. That myth time in future—and instead to go and live in Norfolk. about our unemployment figures is another one that we I should like to talk about the words at the end of the must destroy. Opposition motion and the decision Public support and funding makes a lot of the economic “to abolish regional development agencies”, development in the Edinburgh area possible, but the which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington Tory view is that public spending is a drag on, rather (Jack Dromey) and the right hon. Member for Normanton, than an encouragement to, the economy. For example, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) mentioned the public spending and support we put into a wave in their speeches. We need to put RDAs into some sort power project in Leith docks—£4 million of public of perspective. Between 1999 and 2008, RDAs cost spending in past year—will create lots of employment, £13 billion; salaries increased from £38 million to but nothing would have happened without that degree £120 million; and running costs increased by 159%. 467 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 468

PricewaterhouseCoopers said that the amount of return and The Humber agreeing to support local economic was £4 for every £1 put in, but it is not clear whether partnerships, and, again, the LGA has shown there is that takes account of the increase in overhead costs. huge support for that. Either way, it is not a particularly interesting amount of Local government is up for this. My own county has return. a very good vision of a technology arc from Oxford In addition, we should not forget the rather destructive across to Cambridge. It does not need an RDA—or in way in which RDAs have gone about promoting areas this case, two RDAs—to tell it how to do that. There is overseas and reaching out for inward investment. The no better quote with which to end my comments than total cost of RDAs’ overseas activities in the seven years one from the chairman of South East England Councils, to 2008 was £24 million. Even Advantage West Midlands, the leader of Kent county council, Paul Carter, who said: which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington “The future is local. We need to strip away the old bureaucratic, much praised, has 11 offices overseas. There is wasteful regional structures quickly. Councils”— competition between RDAs. Five RDAs have offices in in this case in the south-east— China, which, as I have mentioned in the House before, “are ready and willing to take on the role of working with prompted a rather indignant group of business men businesses.” returning from China to complain that the Chinese do I think that is an extremely powerful route to real not understand the difference between the east and west growth in our local economies. midlands. 6.19 pm The creation of employment through the RDAs Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): It is an old but essentially happens through the regional economic strategies. true saying that if we do not learn the mistakes of We have all heard about the regional spatial strategies, history, we end up repeating them. For some Members but the regional economic strategies are their precursors. of the House, this discussion is not just theoretical, The RSSs are there to deliver in planning terms what because we have lived it—our families and our areas the RESs deliver. I suspect very few Members have have lived it. My grandfather was sacked in 1926 for read, let alone heard of, the RES for their own region. having the temerity to go on strike. He was blacklisted That is unsurprising; like the RSSs, the RESs are reflective for eight years and died in poverty. My father was not of a bottom-up approach, but of a top-down approach. forced to go down the mines in 1935 as a 14-year-old at In my own region of the south-east—where I am a time when, he has told me, they were treated like asked to believe that the town of Henley has an enormous slaves. People did not march from Jarrow to London amount in common with the town of Dover—the just for the fun of it: they did it because the private concentration of resources on infrastructure has been sector had let them down. around the Government’s agenda in Kent, whereas In the 1930s, a miner was killed in the mines every six places such as Oxfordshire, which is an economic area hours because of the success of the private sector. That in itself, have been left out of receiving any investment was not because there was too much red tape, but for many years. Such areas have had to fight to get what because people did not invest in the mines. That is why, is due to them. at the end of world war two, the people of this country, despite having a GDP-to-debt ratio of 262%—not 62%— I agree that the RDAs have done some good work, did the right thing and threw that Government out. but we must accept that most regions are artificial. They They then built a million houses, created the national are political constructs, and there is no identity with the health service and nationalised the major utilities and region. There is quite a lot of academic work on that, the railways. They did all that right and what was the including papers by, among others, Hadjimichalis and result? In 1959, the Prime Minister said that this country Hudson, which I recommend to Members. Few regions had never had it so good—that was because of the have longevity or a common identity. The potential things that Labour Governments had done in the 1940s exception is the north-east, where there has been some and 1950s. argument for a common focus since the 1930s. The Unfortunately, in the next period there was general reality, however, is that the boundaries are artificial. consensus in the country on one-nation Toryism. Of Local Government Association research into the trading, course, that was done away with in 1979 when Mrs Thatcher travelling and working patterns of the British economy came along. She had a view of one-nation Tories from demonstrates that the principal sub-national economic the Wash southwards and we ended up with people on unit is sub-regional, not regional. That was a good piece the dole, mines closed, shipyards closed and steelworks of analysis. The Labour approach to RDAs has, therefore, closed. That was said to be a price worth paying only been part of the tired centralist agenda. It has ignored because the people represented by the Conservatives natural areas and, arguably, suppressed growth by focusing were not paying it. The price was paid by the people of on a centralist agenda that ignores local flexibilities and my constituency and those of Scotland, Wales and opportunities. other industrial areas while the yuppies in London were Opposition Members tried to suggest that abolishing swanning around in their Porches, drinking champagne the RDAs would leave regions and sub-regions in a and smoking big cigars. Conservative Members can vacuum, but nothing could be further from the truth. smile because they were not there, but some of us were, We have proposed local economic partnerships, some of and we were suffering. People struggled and saw which may, if local councils and businesses wish, have communities going down the drain. People were burgled similar configurations to the current RDAs. What is by their neighbours’ children and saw drugs in villages important is to give control back to local councils and where there had been nothing but hard work for two business, and to liberate growth and local ideas. That centuries. We saw houses falling down that people had challenge has been welcomed by local councils. I was kept going for a hundred years. This is not a joke; it is interested to see press reports of 22 councils in Yorkshire serious stuff. 469 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 470

[Mr David Anderson] hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) were talking about that, and it is a common theme. It is Hon. Members talk about unemployment—in the one area that, I know, we all care about so much. constituency where I lived before I became an MP, the I was talking in Hastings, where we have very high highest unemployment rate in the past 13 years has levels of youth unemployment, to a young lady from been 7.8%, which is far too high, but in 1986, in the Tressell training, which is a NEET—not in employment, week that the mine I worked in was closed and 721 education or training—college. I asked her what she miners were put on the dole, the unemployment rate was doing and she said that she was doing a training was 18.6%. The Conservatives should not come here course, making a film about BMX bikes. I said, “That’s lecturing us about unemployment when it is just some great. Do you do BMX biking yourself?” and she said, sort of theoretical debate they have had in the students “No, I couldn’t possibly, because it’s dangerous and I’m union. pregnant.” My face fell, reflecting slightly what I thought At the end of the 1980s, the public services were about that, and she said, “No, don’t worry. I know what attacked, compulsory competitive tendering was introduced you’re thinking—you’re thinking I’m too young but I’m and people were put on wages of £1 an hour. We had a not, because I’m 16 next week.” She was reflecting situation where people who had given their lives to something that we see a lot, and I do not think that it is organisations such as the health service were told, “We a problem just in Hastings. A lot of young people are don’t want you any more—go and work for Joe Bloggs’ making a choice, because they look at the potential for cleaning company.” People were underestimated and jobs and do not see that it has anything to do with them. undervalued. The next thing was that the private sector came back in. We gave the utilities back to the private In Hastings, 43% of the work force are in the public sector and we ended up with a utilities sector that was sector. To get into the public sector, people need not fit for purpose. The reality is that we will probably qualifications. I welcome the comments made by the end up with power cuts or running out of gas. Alternatively, Secretary of State for Education today about the changes we will end up, as the hon. Member for Richmond Park to education and the changes to our schools, which, I (Zac Goldsmith) suggested when he spoke so eloquently hope, will start to work with the lowest achievers and about green issues, being dependent on people like the with the people who are struggling most. At the moment, Russians or the Ukrainians for gas and oil supplies. I feel that we have a real problem with the young Why? It is because of lack of investment by private unemployed looking at the work force—they have no companies. qualifications—and thinking, “That’s not for me.” When Labour came back into power in 1997, we took I have a radical proposal that I would like the Secretary action and used public money to put right some of of State and the Minister to consider. Instead of people those wrongs. We introduced the national minimum going on to unemployment benefit—instead of their wage, we brought in rights for people at work and we going on to the circuit of jobseeker’s allowance, then introduced good-quality health and safety legislation the flexible new deal and then, sometimes, back again—why that saves lives. We introduced regulations that stopped not consider putting them on something new, which we business people from exploiting people at work, and we could call “Vision for Jobs”, to give them purpose, work should never move away from that or apologise for it. and training? In the example I am thinking of, people We also introduced the regional development agencies, could start at 9 o’clock in the morning and be given two which have not been successful in some regions—it is to three days of community service, one day of learning pointless to pretend otherwise—but the areas where skills and one day of job search. They could be given they have been successful are probably those where they pride in what they are trying to do by being given a are needed more than anywhere else, such as in my weekly wage. In my vision, this weekly piece of paper region, where the RDA has been very successful. Taking would have on the right hand side “35 hours of meaningful RDAs away will cause a repeat of the past and will be work”, which would be set out, and— the wrong way to go. Some people say that we have no choice and that we Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Will the are all in it together, but we do have a choice. We do not hon. Lady give way? have to follow past accidents: we could introduce a financial transaction tax on the banks; we could take real action to attack tax avoidance and tax evasion; and Amber Rudd: Yes—actually, no, I will not give way. we do not have to cut corporation tax. I know that it is On the left hand side, that slip would show what they highly unlikely that the Conservatives will want to do had received—not just the jobseeker’s allowance but the that, because they still want to be the party of business council benefit and any credits that they might receive. at the helm of the work force, but the Opposition will Many young people do not know the full extent of the not stand for it. It is a shame that the hon. Members on benefits they receive. the narrow Government side of the House—the Liberal Democrats—are supporting the other Government I know that such a scheme will be hard to deliver and Members in doing that. They should be ashamed of that it is not straightforward, but I think that the what they are doing. current unemployment benefit system leaves young people to fend for themselves. It does not look after them. We need a new system. I ask those on the Front Bench and 6.24 pm the Secretary of State to consider piloting such a scheme Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): I have noticed in Hastings. I know that he has had conversations with this afternoon that there has been a lot of talk about Tomorrow’s People and Debbie Scott, and she would be young people in unemployment. Both my hon. Friend delighted to do that. We could make a change, and start the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) and the it in Hastings. 471 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 472

6.28 pm of the fact that we faced the largest global recession since the second world war. He went on to talk about Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): the proposals for the new Work programme, but there I shall be brief, given the time available. May I begin by remains a huge number of practical questions, which he wishing the hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George was completely unable to answer. What will happen in Freeman) all the best? He made an excellent maiden the gap between the time when no more people can be speech and I am sure that he will be a valuable addition taken on by the future jobs fund and the time when the to his Front Bench in the not-too-distant future if he new scheme is introduced? What will happen to those continues at that pace of contribution. people whose skills atrophy if they are unemployed? We In just over half an hour, the House has the opportunity are talking not just about people’s technical skills, but to send a message to the country. On this side of the about their social skills, which are important if people House, we know that Conservative Members are are to maintain their morale and get another job. ideologically driven towards cuts. There is nothing new or fresh about their ideas. This is an opportunity in My hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary which they are revelling as they make cuts to programmes Creagh) spoke about the importance of the private and policies that they have never liked and never supported. sector retaining its confidence and about the work that the future jobs fund has done in Wakefield, by creating Those Liberal Democrats who are sitting alongside 700 places for young people. She spoke about environmental their new best friends, however, need to hang their projects, green businesses, young people learning to heads in shame. It is interesting to look at the roll of make honey and the skills that they were gaining. She dishonour that lists the names of those Liberal Democrat pointed out the importance of apprenticeships. The Ministers who have signed this appalling amendment, Government keep telling us about the number of which revels in a programme of cuts. Fife, Scotland and apprenticeships that they are creating, while conveniently the whole of the United Kingdom is watching again forgetting that we trebled the number of apprenticeships and the Liberal Democrats must face up to reality—they in the past 13 years. My hon. Friend asked how the cannot cosy up to their Conservative pals for the next national contracts would work and how the providers five years without realising that the people of Britain would bear the risks. They are good questions, and will punish them for it at the next general election. more questions that the Minister was completely incapable of answering. 6.29 pm The hon. Member for North East Hertfordshire Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I begin by (Mr Heald) spoke about the problem of worklessness, congratulating the hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George the need for greater private sector employment and the Freeman) on making a most amusing maiden speech. importance of technological skills. He did not seem to As far as I could tell, its gist was that Mid Norfolk was be able to take into account the fact that the number of really big in the middle of the 18th century. I looked at people on inactive benefits has fallen by 350,000 in the “Dod’s” to find out a little more about him, and one of past 12 years. He did not seem to be aware of the fact his recreations is hill walking, which is a shame: he will that the Office for Budget Responsibility’s forecast shows not get many opportunities to do that in Mid Norfolk. that private sector employment will be lower in each of I am proud to have belonged to a Government who the next five years than was forecast before the Chancellor’s decided to support young people through the recession, Budget. to have confidence in them, to invest in them and to The hon. Gentleman went on to talk about the back them. We knew that unemployment was not a importance of education and technology. I hope sincerely price worth paying. We knew from our experience of that he has a word with the Secretary of State for the 1980s and 1990s what a scarring effect unemployment Education—he will have an opportunity to do so shortly— has and how the young are worst affected. However, it about the dire mistake that has been made in the cuts to seems that this Government have learned nothing. Not the BSF programme that were announced earlier this only are they introducing huge cuts to public expenditure, week. with massive knock-on effects on private sector jobs, My hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South but they are freezing recruitment to the public sector, Perthshire (Gordon Banks) spoke about the importance cutting the number of university places and now abolishing of the construction industry. He has a great deal of the future jobs fund. experience of that, and he talked about how it was a The Tories and the Liberals said in the run-up to the driver for the economy. general election that they were backing the future jobs fund and that they would continue with it, so I am sure Mr Heald rose— that many voters will be extremely disappointed by the decision to abolish it. It is notable that not one Liberal Helen Goodman: I am sorry, but I have to respond to Democrat has spoken in the debate. I assume that they 22 Members and I do not have much time. are getting rather weary of their role as fig leaf to the The hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Government. I am glad to see the Minister of State, Truss) spoke about the importance of infrastructure Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member and education spending, and about the great returns for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb) in his place at that there are from that. I hope that she will have a last, but it is significant that the Liberal Democrats have conversation with her right hon. Friend the Chancellor been unable to face defending the amendment that the of the Exchequer and press on him the need to maintain Government have tabled. spending on some of those. The Minister of State, Department for Work and My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) spoke about the (Chris Grayling) began without any acknowledgement issues in her constituency. She reminded the House that 473 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 474

[Helen Goodman] The hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) spoke about the importance of work—she during the general election the Prime Minister said that does not seem to be in her place now—and the Marmot he wanted to see cuts in the north. She was absolutely report. I hope that Ministers listened to her and will right. It was quite clear that if someone voted Cameron appreciate the severe consequences for people’s health they would get cuts, and if someone voted Clegg they and mental health of soaring unemployment. would get Cameron. She pointed out that a third of the My hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) workers in the north-east worked in the public sector, made a passionate speech about how the Tories treated and that its efficiency can be improved by having more his constituency in the 1980s and pointed out the great workers in low-cost areas. significance of Train to Gain, which is the programme The hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) being cut to finance the much trumpeted apprenticeships. spoke about the problem of NEETs and what needed to The hon. Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) be done to increase apprenticeships. She spoke about a took us back to the 1960s and talked about what she public-private partnership, which was picked up by my perceived to be the waste in the contracting process. I hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison hope that such waste will be reduced and less money McGovern), who pointed out that if spending in local will be spent on contractors in the new scheme that the authorities is maintained, it might be possible to continue Government will introduce. My hon. Friend the Member with that. for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) made a wide-ranging My right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham speech displaying a great understanding of the constituency (Mr Lammy) gave a passionate speech about the importance she represents. She also spoke about the good work of human dignity in considering all these issues. He also being done by Jobcentre Plus and the threat to the jobs asked a number of questions, to which it would be of its staff. She mentioned how foolish that is at a time interesting to hear the answers when the Minister replies—in when these workers are most needed. particular, how many placements has the Minister succeeded The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim in getting for the apprenticeships that Government Zahawi) said that business needs to be freed up. My Members keep trumpeting? My right hon. Friend also hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow spoke about the connection between young people being (Rushanara Ali) spoke about the imbalance between able to work and the importance of keeping down the number of jobs and the number of vacancies, and antisocial behaviour and crime. He pointed to the huge pointed to the scale of the problems we face. My hon. gap between the reality and the Government’s rhetoric. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) We heard it even today in Prime Minister’s questions, made a myth-busting speech pointing out, in particular, when the Prime Minister said, in answer to a question that tax credits go to those in work, and help people to from my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham finance child care and take jobs. The hon. Member for (Mr Umunna), that he wanted a long-term strategy to Henley (John Howell) spoke about the regional development engage young people. If he wants that, why is he abolishing agencies and revealed, I am sorry to say, the complete the future jobs fund? ignorance of the Conservative party about some of the The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) regions in the north and the significance of the RDAs, spoke extremely interestingly about the importance of and its really foolish decision to take the same approach moving to a low-carbon green economy, and he talked to the south of the country as to the north. about how that should be done, but he left out one key My hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) thing, which is that one of the major barriers is a skills made a passionate speech and pointed out that the shortage. The future jobs fund had a green strand. Will question of unemployment is not a theoretical one, but he please press Ministers to have a green strand in their about real people and real lives. The hon. Member for work? Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) began her speech with My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington a story about a 16-year-old having a baby and her (Jack Dromey) spoke with huge passion about his concerns about it. I wonder whether she has addressed constituency and the role of the RDA in the west with her hon. Friends the fact that the programmes to midlands. I can recall being in Birmingham and finding reduce teenage pregnancy are being cut. She then talked out about the partnerships that the DWP had with the about her vision and spoke about what she wanted to RDA to build employment in that region. I hope that see—it sounded rather as if she wanted a version of the the Minister will be able to inform the House of what youth guarantee, albeit a rather bureaucratic version. I she said about the loss of that partner when her colleagues point out to her that her hon. Friends have just abolished in the Department of Communities and Local Government it. My hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and came up with the proposal to abolish the RDA. West Fife (Thomas Docherty) also spoke about the The hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) great importance of a sensible approach to tackling this spoke about the importance of the private sector and problem. the need to see SMEs grow, and I think that the House What the Government have done is totally unjust. would agree with that. They are pulling away support precisely at the time of My hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent maximum need. Today, we have had a statement from (Nick Smith) spoke about the need for new jobs in the OECD stating that this is the moment in the recession former mining areas. He spoke about the 50th anniversary when it is most important to have properly funded of the Six Bells tragedy and the huge impact that support. That is in addition to statements from local mining still has on many communities. Hon. Members authorities, young people and the voluntary sector. We can come to the miners’ gala in Durham on Saturday, are seeing the wanton destruction of people’s lives. where they can enjoy the culture that flowed from the These are not numbers. The abolition of the youth mining communities. guarantee and the future jobs fund demonstrates how 475 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 476 little the Government care. They do not care about the his maiden speech. It was, as I think all Members would young man and his partner who want to do their best agree, a fine, assured speech and in the very best traditions for their new baby; they do not care about the mother of the House. His constituents have in him a strong anxious about what is going to happen to her children voice who clearly understands the issues, and he will when they leave school; and they do not even care about certainly find a place here as an advocate of the Norfolk the ex-soldier who wants some hope in his life. All those way, turnips or no turnips. people currently benefit from the future jobs fund. This As I said, the debate has been wide-ranging, but my is why I urge all hon. Members to vote for the motion hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) tonight and to reject the Government’s amendment. summed it up when he said that this Government have inherited a horrendous financial situation. This is a 6.44 pm financial crisis that Labour knew was coming, which was why it had already identified the need for 20% cuts The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work in Government budgets. Yet again, the shadow Secretary and Pensions (Maria Miller): I start by commending of State refused to identify where those cuts were going Labour Members on securing this debate, because it to come in her Department when she was challenged by gives us an opportunity to talk about something we the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member think is integral to putting Britain back on the right for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling). She really will tracks. It has been an interesting debate, but sadly, that have little credibility until she answers that question—or probably has less to do with the quality of the facts did she think it would be right to continue to leave this from the Front-Bench team, and more to do with some country with the economic instability that debt creates? of the theatrics and selective memories that have The hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) made accompanied them. In the interests of everyone here, I a very thoughtful contribution and spoke at length hope that hon. Members will permit me to set the about the importance of nurturing business, something record straight, because we need to be absolutely clear in which we have a common interest. She was a lecturer about the legacy left by Labour after 13 years of failed at Cranfield School of Management and I worked in policies. business for 17 years. Sometimes, theory and practice The spin from the shadow Secretary of State simply can be very different, but we both recognise that confidence does not match the facts. In the real world, almost is important when it comes to creating a stable business 2.5 million people are unemployed across our country, environment. That point was echoed by the hon. Member and 1.4 million under-25s are not in employment, education for Wirral South (Alison McGovern). Such confidence or training. Some 2.2 million are currently languishing will come if we can show businesses in this country that on old-style incapacity benefits, written off by the system we have Government debt under control and financial that was designed to help them. Even before the recession, stability, and that we do not have the threat of a hike in more than 15% of children were growing up in a household job taxes, such as the Labour Government so clearly where no one worked. Income inequality is now at its put forward. highest level since records began. The hon. Member for Wakefield raised a number of Yvette Cooper rose— questions that I cannot go into in detail on now, but if there is anything she wants me to cover in more detail, Maria Miller: I hope the right hon. Lady will forgive perhaps we can speak later. She particularly mentioned me for not letting her in, but I want to pay tribute to Jobcentre Plus staff, and I can assure that the head Members who have contributed to the debate today, as count will be reduced by freezing external recruitment the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) and not extending fixed-term contracts when they come did. to an end. We are now staring down the barrel of the largest A number of hon. Members mentioned apprenticeships, peacetime deficit this country has even seen. That is which are an important element of our strategy for Labour’s record loud and clear. tackling poverty and worklessness. My hon. Friend the Yvette Cooper rose— Member for North East Hertfordshire (Mr Heald) talked eloquently about the role of apprenticeships in his Maria Miller: Okay, I will give way. constituency, and particularly the business-facing Yvette Cooper: Will the Minister confirm that the educational institutions in Hertfordshire that are pivotal number of children in workless households fell between in delivering the lowest level of NEETs in the country. 1997 and 2010 from 2.3 million to 1.8 million? The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) also talked about youth unemployment. I should perhaps Maria Miller: The fact that I would give back to the remind him that we now have 1.4 million unemployed shadow Secretary of State is that we have the highest or inactive under-25-year-olds who are not in full-time number of children living in workless households. If she education either, which is 250,000 more than in 1997. is proud of that fact, she deserves to be on the Opposition However, that is an issue we will address. He also talked Benches. about apprenticeships, which the right hon. Member for It was with some bemusement that I learned that the Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford discussed in her Opposition wanted to debate employment today, but it speech. She needs to have a bit more faith in British has been good to get some of the facts out. We have had industry. Apprenticeships are at the heart of British a very wide-ranging debate with many thoughtful industry. There are already 240,000 apprenticeships, contributions, and I should like to take some time to and we are talking about raising that by 50,000 among pay tribute to those who have made them. First, of small and medium-sized enterprises. That is an opportunity course, I have to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the being delivered by this coalition Government, and which Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), who gave I know people in my constituency are crying out for. 477 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 478

[Maria Miller] of closing the gap in health inequalities. My hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther talked about the importance of getting Britain working McVey) also raised the issue of apprenticeships, talking and the need to streamline benefits. My hon. Friend the about the importance of getting young people back into Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) talked work and the debilitating effects of worklessness. I about job creation from green policies in a low-carbon know she will understand the importance of the Work future and intrinsically sustainable employment options, programme in delivering for the people in her constituency. which I know he will champion well. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): Dromey) talked eloquently about the important role Will the Minister give way? that manufacturing has to play in this country. As the granddaughter of a skilled tool-room worker from not Maria Miller: I am sorry—I hope the hon. Lady will too far from his constituency—the black country—I forgive me—but we are quite short of time. understand the passion with which he speaks. Our My hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk challenge is to ensure that UK manufacturing is competitive (Elizabeth Truss) talked about the role that debt-fuelled in the 21st century. growth had played in the past 13 years, and the fact that My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot regional development agencies had not been held to James), in her usual eloquent and clear style, spoke account rigorously enough on the returns they had graphically of the inflexibility of the employment delivered for the investments made. Those were points programmes developed under Labour. I know she will that my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John join me in advocating the Work programme for its Howell) also picked out in his thoughtful contribution. simplicity and for the support it will give to unemployed He pointed out that the future is local; I absolutely people. We have set out a clear plan to get Britain agree. working. The Work programme will replace the hotch-potch The hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) also of piecemeal welfare-to-work schemes that have so badly talked about regional development agencies. It was let down the hardest to help with an integrated package refreshing to hear that he understood that they have not of personalised employment support. always been successful. The hon. Member for Newcastle My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) talked about (Amber Rudd) advocated a similar approach in her them as well. Perhaps I might point out to her that over contribution today. Providers will be paid by results, the past eight years since they were created, the imbalance not promises. If they do not deliver people into sustainable between the regions has got worse. Replacing regional work, they will not get paid. This will cut waste, and it development agencies will give us an opportunity to will cut failure. No longer will benefit claimants have to address that inequality through local enterprise partnerships, wait until an arbitrary period of time has elapsed before regional growth funds and all the policies we have they can receive more intensive support. No longer will already announced to try to reduce the inequalities that they be denied the dynamism and ingenuity of private we see between the regions. and voluntary sector organisations helping them into We have again had a great deal of discussion today work. about the future jobs fund, which was raised by the hon. Members for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali), Mr Lammy: Will the hon. Lady give way? for Islwyn (Chris Evans) and for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith). We therefore need to be clear again: we are not, contrary to what Opposition Front Benchers might Maria Miller: If the right hon. Gentleman will forgive assert, cancelling the future jobs fund, and they know me, I will not as I have only four minutes left and I need that only too well. We are committed to delivering on to conclude my speech. the contracts that have already been awarded, but we No longer will people be forced to turn down work will not award more contracts because the facts show on the basis that they would gain little more from that the future jobs fund does not work. It has not employment. We aim to roll out the Work programme delivered the number of jobs it was intended to deliver. by next summer, and until then the Government will I fear that some of those who are crying foul on the ensure that support is in place for unemployed people. issue are perhaps more concerned with putting a positive There has been a great deal of discussion today about gloss on their legacy than with helping those who need the OBR forecasts. Again, we need to set the record help most. straight. Growth in employment of 1.3 million is forecast The hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) over the next five years because of our plans. That talked about myths, although I would challenge her on figure is backed by the Chartered Institute of Personnel that and say that some of the things she talked about and Development. The previous Government’s plans tend to fall into the category of myth themselves. After were unsustainable, but we will ensure that our plans go 13 years of Labour, the true fact is that the proportion on to provide more jobs into the future. of working-age people in a job is now lower than it was These are real measures to tackle systemic in 1997, while the figure for those unemployed is more unemployment. They tackle its causes, they are efficient, than 400,000 higher. Those are facts, not myths, and I and they are better calibrated towards challenging the hope she will take account of that in her further indignities of dependency and worklessness. The changes contributions in this House. will not be top-down, piecemeal or half-measured, and We have had a number of excellent contributions to they will not be characterised by a pilot here or a trial the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and there. The Work programme will be robust and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) talked about the importance comprehensive—an integrated package tailored to meet 479 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 480 the needs of each person and responsive to their Greatrex, Tom Mitchell, Austin requirements. That is what people who do not have a Green, Kate Moon, Mrs Madeleine job and want to work need. Greenwood, Lilian Morden, Jessica Griffith, Nia Morrice, Graeme I should like to thank Opposition Members for this Gwynne, Andrew Morris, Grahame M. opportunity to outline the way in which we will take Hain, rh Mr Peter Mudie, Mr George this country out of the quagmire created by Labour. As Hamilton, Mr David Munn, Meg my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell Hamilton, Mr Fabian Murphy, rh Mr Jim said, we have the support of many businesses, charities Hanson, rh Mr David Murphy, rh Paul and providers of support services, as well as of many of Harman, rh Ms Harriet Murray, Ian those trapped on benefits. We have a governing coalition Havard, Mr Dai Nandy, Lisa of two parties, united by our commitment to the role of Healey, rh John Nash, Pamela work in tackling the causes of poverty, and by our deep Hepburn, Mr Stephen O’Donnell, Fiona disappointment with the lack of progress under Labour. Heyes, David Onwurah, Chi This is the Government’s plan for jobs and our plan to Hillier, Meg Osborne, Sandra increase employment. We will get people into work. Hilling, Julie Owen, Albert That is what is good for Britain and for the people of Hodge, rh Margaret Pearce, Teresa Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Toby Britain, and I have to say that it is about time too. Hoey, Kate Phillipson, Bridget Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the Hopkins, Kelvin Pound, Stephen original words stand part of the Question. Hosie, Stewart Qureshi, Yasmin Howarth, rh Mr George Raynsford, rh Mr Nick The House divided: Ayes 243, Noes 331. Hunt, Tristram Reeves, Rachel Division No. 15] [6.59 pm Illsley, Mr Eric Reynolds, Emma Irranca-Davies, Huw Reynolds, Jonathan AYES Jackson, Glenda Riordan, Mrs Linda James, Mrs Siân C. Robertson, John Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Creasy, Stella Jamieson, Cathy Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Cruddas, Jon Johnson, rh Alan Rotheram, Steve Alexander, Heidi Cryer, John Johnson, Diana R. Roy, Mr Frank Ali, Rushanara Cunningham, Alex Jones, Graham Roy, Lindsay Allen, Mr Graham Cunningham, Mr Jim Jones, Helen Ruane, Chris Anderson, Mr David Cunningham, Tony Jones, Mr Kevan Ruddock, rh Joan Austin, Ian Curran, Margaret Jones, Susan Elan Sarwar, Anas Bailey, Mr Adrian Dakin, Nic Jowell, rh Tessa Seabeck, Alison Bain, Mr William Danczuk, Simon Joyce, Eric Sharma, Mr Virendra Banks, Gordon David, Mr Wayne Keeley, Barbara Sheerman, Mr Barry Barron, rh Mr Kevin Davidson, Mr Ian Keen, Alan Sheridan, Jim Bayley, Hugh Davies, Geraint Kendall, Liz Shuker, Gavin Begg, Miss Anne De Piero, Gloria Khan, rh Sadiq Singh, Mr Marsha Benton, Mr Joe Dobbin, Jim Lammy, rh Mr David Skinner, Mr Dennis Berger, Luciana Dobson, rh Frank Lavery, Ian Slaughter, Mr Andy Betts, Mr Clive Docherty, Thomas Lazarowicz, Mark Smith, rh Mr Andrew Blackman-Woods, Roberta Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Leslie, Chris Smith, Angela (Penistone and Blears, rh Hazel Doran, Mr Frank Lewis, Mr Ivan Stocksbridge) Blenkinsop, Tom Dowd, Jim Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Smith, Nick Blomfield, Paul Doyle, Gemma Love, Mr Andrew Smith, Owen Blunkett, rh Mr David Dromey, Jack Lucas, Caroline Soulsby, Sir Peter Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Dugher, Michael Lucas, Ian Spellar, rh Mr John Brennan, Kevin Durkan, Mark MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Straw, rh Mr Jack Brown, Lyn Eagle, Ms Angela MacShane, rh Mr Denis Stringer, Graham Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Eagle, Maria Mactaggart, Fiona Stuart, Ms Gisela Brown, Mr Russell Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Mr Khalid Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Bryant, Chris Efford, Clive Mahmood, Shabana Thomas, Mr Gareth Buck, Ms Karen Elliott, Julie Mann, John Thornberry, Emily Burden, Richard Ellman, Mrs Louise Marsden, Mr Gordon Timms, rh Stephen Byrne, rh Mr Liam Engel, Natascha McCann, Mr Michael Trickett, Jon Cairns, David Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Turner, Karl Campbell, Mr Alan Evans, Chris McClymont, Gregg Twigg, Derek Campbell, Mr Ronnie Field, rh Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Twigg, Stephen Caton, Martin Flello, Robert McDonnell, John Umunna, Mr Chuka Chapman, Mrs Jenny Flint, rh Caroline Clark, Katy Flynn, Paul McFadden, rh Mr Pat Vaz, rh Keith Clarke, rh Mr Tom Fovargue, Yvonne McGovern, Alison Vaz, Valerie Clwyd, rh Ann Francis, Dr Hywel McGovern, Jim Walley, Joan Coaker, Vernon Gapes, Mike McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Watson, Mr Tom Coffey, Ann Gardiner, Barry McKechin, Ann Watts, Mr Dave Connarty, Michael Gilmore, Sheila McKinnell, Catherine Weir, Mr Mike Cooper, Rosie Glass, Pat Meacher, rh Mr Michael Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Cooper, rh Yvette Glindon, Mrs Mary Meale, Mr Alan Whitehead, Dr Alan Corbyn, Jeremy Godsiff, Mr Roger Mearns, Ian Wicks, rh Malcolm Crausby, Mr David Goggins, rh Paul Michael, rh Alun Williams, Hywel Creagh, Mary Goodman, Helen Miller, Andrew Wilson, Phil 481 Jobs and the Unemployed7 JULY 2010 Jobs and the Unemployed 482

Winnick, Mr David Wright, David Gummer, Ben McCrea, Dr William Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Wright, Mr Iain Gyimah, Mr Sam McIntosh, Miss Anne Wishart, Pete Hague, rh Mr William McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Woodcock, John Tellers for the Ayes: Halfon, Robert McPartland, Stephen Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Mark Tami and Hames, Duncan McVey, Esther Woolas, Mr Phil Steve McCabe Hammond, rh Mr Philip Menzies, Mark Hancock, Matthew Mercer, Patrick NOES Hancock, Mr Mike Metcalfe, Stephen Hands, Greg Miller, Maria Adams, Nigel Coffey, Dr Thérèse Harper, Mr Mark Mills, Nigel Afriyie, Adam Collins, Damian Harris, Rebecca Milton, Anne Aldous, Peter Colvile, Oliver Hart, Simon Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Alexander, rh Danny Cox, Mr Geoffrey Harvey, Nick Moore, rh Michael Amess, Mr David Crabb, Stephen Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mordaunt, Penny Andrew, Stuart Crockart, Mike Hayes, Mr John Morgan, Nicky Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Crouch, Tracey Heald, Mr Oliver Morris, Anne Marie Bacon, Mr Richard Davey, Mr Edward Heath, Mr David Morris, David Bagshawe, Ms Louise Davies, David T. C. Heaton-Harris, Chris Morris, James Baker, Steve (Monmouth) Hemming, John Mosley, Stephen Baldry, Tony Davies, Glyn Henderson, Gordon Mowat, David Baldwin, Harriett Davies, Philip Hendry, Charles Mundell, rh David Barclay, Stephen Davis, rh Mr David Herbert, rh Nick Munt, Tessa Barker, Gregory de Bois, Nick Hinds, Damian Murray, Sheryll Baron, Mr John Dinenage, Caroline Hoban, Mr Mark Murrison, Dr Andrew Barwell, Gavin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hollingbery, George Newmark, Mr Brooks Bebb, Guto Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Hollobone, Mr Philip Newton, Sarah Beith, rh Sir Alan Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Holloway, Mr Adam Norman, Jesse Bellingham, Mr Henry Dorries, Nadine Horwood, Martin Nuttall, Mr David Benyon, Richard Doyle-Price, Jackie Howell, John O’Brien, Mr Stephen Beresford, Sir Paul Drax, Richard Hughes, Simon Offord, Mr Matthew Berry, Jake Duddridge, James Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Ollerenshaw, Eric Binley, Mr Brian Duncan, rh Mr Alan Hunter, Mark Opperman, Guy Birtwistle, Gordon Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Huppert, Dr Julian Ottaway, Richard Blackman, Bob Dunne, Mr Philip Hurd, Mr Nick Paice, Mr James Blackwood, Nicola Ellis, Michael Jackson, Mr Stewart Paisley, Ian Blunt, Mr Crispin Ellison, Jane James, Margot Parish, Neil Boles, Nick Ellwood, Mr Tobias Javid, Sajid Paterson, rh Mr Owen Bone, Mr Peter Elphicke, Charlie Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pawsey, Mark Bradley, Karen Eustice, George Johnson, Gareth Penning, Mike Brady, Mr Graham Evans, Graham Johnson, Joseph Penrose, John Brake, Tom Evans, Jonathan Jones, Andrew Percy, Andrew Bray, Angie Evennett, Mr David Jones, Mr David Perry, Claire Brazier, Mr Julian Fabricant, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus Phillips, Stephen Bridgen, Andrew Fallon, Michael Kawczynski, Daniel Pincher, Christopher Brine, Mr Steve Farron, Tim Kelly, Chris Poulter, Dr Daniel Brokenshire, James Featherstone, Lynne Kirby, Simon Prisk, Mr Mark Brooke, Annette Field, Mr Mark Kwarteng, Kwasi Pritchard, Mark Browne, Mr Jeremy Foster, Mr Don Laing, Mrs Eleanor Pugh, Dr John Bruce, Fiona Fox,rhDrLiam Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Raab, Mr Dominic Bruce, rh Malcolm Francois, rh Mr Mark Latham, Pauline Randall, rh Mr John Buckland, Mr Robert Freeman, George Leadsom, Andrea Reckless, Mark Burley, Mr Aidan Freer, Mike Lee, Jessica Rees-Mogg, Jacob Burns, Conor Fullbrook, Lorraine Lee, Dr Phillip Reevell, Simon Burns, Mr Simon Fuller, Richard Leech, Mr John Reid, Mr Alan Burrowes, Mr David Garnier, Mr Edward Lefroy, Jeremy Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Burstow, Mr Paul Garnier, Mark Leigh, Mr Edward Robathan, Mr Andrew Burt, Alistair Gauke, Mr David Leslie, Charlotte Robertson, Hugh Burt, Lorely George, Andrew Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Robertson, Mr Laurence Byles, Dan Gibb, Mr Nick Lewis, Brandon Rogerson, Dan Cairns, Alun Gilbert, Stephen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rosindell, Andrew Campbell, Mr Gregory Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lilley, rh Mr Peter Rudd, Amber Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Glen, John Lloyd, Stephen Russell, Bob Carmichael, Mr Alistair Goldsmith, Zac Lopresti, Jack Rutley, David Carmichael, Neil Goodwill, Mr Robert Lord, Jonathan Sanders, Mr Adrian Carswell, Mr Douglas Gove, rh Michael Loughton, Tim Sandys, Laura Cash, Mr William Graham, Richard Lumley, Karen Scott, Mr Lee Chishti, Rehman Grant, Mrs Helen Macleod, Mary Selous, Andrew Chope, Mr Christopher Gray, Mr James Main, Mrs Anne Shapps, rh Grant Clappison, Mr James Green, Damian Maude, rh Mr Francis Sharma, Alok Clark, rh Greg Greening, Justine Maynard, Paul Shelbrooke, Alec Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Jason Shepherd, Mr Richard Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Griffiths, Andrew McCartney, Karl Simmonds, Mark 483 Jobs and the Unemployed 7 JULY 2010 484

Simpson, Mr Keith Vara, Mr Shailesh Schools Funding Skidmore, Chris Vickers, Martin Smith, Henry Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Julian Walker, Mr Charles 7.14 pm Smith, Sir Robert Walker, Mr Robin Soames, Nicholas Wallace, Mr Ben The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): Soubry, Anna Walter, Mr Robert With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to apologise Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Ward, Mr David to you and to the whole House for the way information Stephenson, Andrew Watkinson, Angela accompanying my oral statement on Monday was provided Stevenson, John Weatherley, Mike to all Members. Stewart, Bob Webb, Steve During my statement a list of schools affected by our Stewart, Iain Wharton, James plans to review capital funding was placed in the House Stewart, Rory Wheeler, Heather Streeter, Mr Gary White, Chris of Commons Library. I wish to apologise to you and to Stride, Mel Whittaker, Craig the whole House for not placing that list on the Table of Stuart, Mr Graham Whittingdale, Mr John the House and in the Vote Office at the beginning of my Sturdy, Julian Wiggin, Bill statement, as you reminded me page 441 of “Erskine Swales, Ian Willetts, rh Mr David May” quite properly requires. I further wish to apologise Swayne, Mr Desmond Williams, Mr Mark for the inaccurate information on the list I was supplied Swinson, Jo Williams, Roger with and which I gave to the House. [Interruption.] Swire, Mr Hugo Williams, Stephen Syms, Mr Robert Williamson, Gavin Mr Speaker: Order. I apologise for interrupting the Tapsell, Sir Peter Wilson, Mr Rob Secretary of State. The statement will be heard in Teather, Sarah Wilson, Sammy silence. That is the way things are done in these Thurso, John Wollaston, Dr Sarah circumstances. Timpson, Mr Edward Wright, Jeremy Tomlinson, Justin Wright, Simon Tredinnick, David Michael Gove: A number of schools were miscategorised, Young, rh Sir George Truss, Elizabeth and for that I apologise. In particular, there were schools Zahawi, Nadhim Turner, Mr Andrew that were listed as proceeding when, in fact, their rebuild Tyrie, Mr Andrew Tellers for the Noes: will not now go ahead. That confusion caused Members Uppal, Paul Miss Chloe Smith and of this House and members of the public understandable Vaizey, Mr Edward Norman Lamb distress and concern, and I wish to take full personal responsibility for that regrettable error. Question accordingly negatived. I also wish to apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2)), the House for any confusion over the manner of my That the proposed words be there added. apology today and any related media speculation. In Question agreed to. responding to press queries earlier, my Department confirmed that I was writing to those affected by these The Speaker declared the main Question, as amended, mistakes, and it was my intention then to come to the to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)). House with as accurate a picture as possible of the exact Resolved, errors and to apologise for them. I have placed a revised That this House welcomes the emergency budget which will list of schools in the Vote Office and am writing to all tackle the unprecedented legacy of debt over the next five years Members affected. I would be grateful if any Members by reducing borrowing from a projected £149 billion this year to who are concerned that schools may have been wrongly just £20 billion in 2015-16; notes the Office for Budget Responsibility’s categorised were to contact me personally, so that I can projection that unemployment will fall in every year of this ensure, with them, that the information we have been Parliament as a result of the Government’s policies to stimulate private sector employment by reversing the damaging increase supplied with is as accurate as possible. Once again, planned for employer national insurance contributions, introducing Mr Speaker, I am grateful to you and to the whole a £1 billion Regional Growth Fund, reducing the corporation and House for granting me the opportunity to make this small profits tax rates and increasing the Enterprise Finance statement and, once again, to apologise unreservedly. Guarantee, resulting in the creation of a projected two million new private sector jobs by 2015-16; further welcomes moves to Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): May I thank the implement a single work programme that will provide personalised Secretary of State for finally coming to this House to support to help people move into sustained employment, to introduce a £1,000 increase in income tax personal allowances make an apology for the serious errors made in his which will incentivise work, to reform the benefits system to statement on Monday about the cuts to the school ensure that work pays and to provide 50,000 new apprenticeships building programme? It is right that he apologises to and 10,000 new university places for young people, thus stimulating this House, but he should also apologise to all the growth, delivering jobs and creating a fairer society for all. pupils, parents and teachers expecting new buildings, who have now had them cruelly snatched away. The chaos and confusion around this announcement is frankly astonishing. First, during the statement on Monday the Secretary of State had a list of the more than 700 school building projects that he was axing, but no list was available to any other hon. Members during the debate. Does the Secretary of State agree that this must not happen again and that, in any other statement he makes, timely and accurate information will be made available to all hon. Members? 485 Schools Funding7 JULY 2010 Schools Funding 486

[Vernon Coaker] Tony Baldry: Banbury school in my constituency is one of those where my right hon. Friend has had to cut We then find out that this list of school projects to be the funding, and, actually, I think that all my constituents cut by the Government was inaccurate and that schools understand that, given how the Opposition left the who thought they were safe have, in fact, lost out. A cupboard absolutely bare, it really does not lie in their second list was published on Monday night, followed mouths to complain that we have had to take the action by a third list yesterday afternoon and we now believe a that we have. I have no hesitation or problem in going to fourth list may be coming. A total of 25 schools had the teachers and parents of pupils at Banbury school wrong information: nine schools previously listed as and explaining the realities of life as they are. going ahead have now been told they will be cancelled; seven schools previously listed as unaffected have now Michael Gove: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. been told they are “under discussion”; and five schools On Monday I explained to the House why I had to take which are under review or have been axed were not even the regrettable decision that we took. Today is a day for on the list at all. These are schools in Sandwell, me to apologise for the inaccuracy that accompanied Northamptonshire, Bexley, Doncaster, Greenwich, my statement. I am grateful for the generosity of his Peterborough and Staffordshire. Can the Secretary of support, but the important thing that I would like the State explain how this possibly could have happened? whole House to appreciate is that I am apologising It is good that the Secretary of State has finally been today, and the only person who should apologise today dragged kicking and screaming to this House to apologise, is me. but the real apology should be directly to the more than 700 communities up and down this country expecting Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab): new schools, who now will not get them. The real Mr Speaker, I can assure you that there is nothing apology should be to the teachers, pupils, parents and synthetic about the anger felt in Sandwell. The pupils in governors from every area who have had the prospect of Sandwell have seen what the new politics is; they have new buildings and new facilities cruelly snatched away. seen the attempt to sneak out a half-spun, half-apology Will the Secretary of State now apologise to the country on the BBC; and they have seen the Secretary of State for shattering the dreams and hopes of so many pupils come here humiliated for the second time this week to and schools across the country? apologise to them. He can embarrass himself; he can disgrace his party; but what is intolerable is that he has Michael Gove: I thank the shadow Minister for his cynically raised the hopes of hundreds and thousands questions, and I understand the passion with which he of families. You’re a miserable pipsqueak of a man, speaks; it is entirely understandable in the circumstances. Gove. You have— May I also apologise—quite rightly—to those in the borough of Sandwell and all those other boroughs that Mr Speaker: Order. Before we go any further, I must were most affected by the inaccurate way in which I ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the term that I made my announcement? I entirely agree with him that think he used. I think I heard the term, “pipsqueak”. it is parents and teachers in those schools, who believed The hon. Gentleman must withdraw that term. It is not that they were spared and found out 24 hours later that appropriate—[Interruption.] Order. I know what I am their schools were to be closed, who were the most doing. Members should leave this matter to me. badly affected. It is their feelings that I am most affected by. He is absolutely right to invite me to apologise, and I Mr Watson: Out of deference to you, Mr Speaker, I am more than happy to underline how sorry I feel withdraw it. towards the parents and teachers involved. The hon. Gentleman asks me to ensure that this will Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. not happen again. It will always be my aim to ensure that timely and accurate information is provided to the Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman House, and I apologise once again for the inaccuracies for his question; it gives me the opportunity once again in the information given. He mentions that two lists to apologise to his constituents and to other parents were supplied; they were, indeed. One listing was by and teachers in Sandwell for the confusion that was local authority and one listing was by parliamentary caused by the mistake that I made on Monday.I understand constituency. We have sought to ensure that the list that the passion that he brings to the issue, and I understand is now supplied is as complete as possible and as accurate how hard he fights for his constituents. I shall be very as possible, and I repeat again that I am apologising to happy to go to West Bromwich and apologise to those all Members who may have been misled, inadvertently, who have been misled by the mistake that has been by the information that was supplied on Monday. For made. I am more than happy to do so. As I said earlier, those Members who wish to contact me personally, I the mistake was mine and mine alone, and I am happy hope to be able to talk to all of them and reassure them to acknowledge it. about the future of the building projects in each constituency affected Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): I am grateful to the Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Does my right hon. Secretary of State for his statement here this evening, Friend find the synthetic anger somewhat sickening? because one school that has been wrongly classified is Banbury—[Interruption.] the St Helena school in my constituency, which by some happy coincidence is the one that I used to go to. Mr Speaker: Order. I know that passions are running However, will the Secretary of State have words with very high on this matter—[Interruption.] Order. I certainly Conservative-controlled Essex county council, which, understand why, but the hon. Gentleman must be heard, notwithstanding his statement, still proposes to shut and he will be. two secondary schools in my constituency? They were 487 Schools Funding7 JULY 2010 Schools Funding 488 going to be shut if BSF money had been forthcoming. regret and for which I should like to apologise once There is no money, but the council is still going to shut more. The hon. Lady’s question provides me with an them—despite the fact that 96% of my constituents do opportunity to say, once again, that I am sorry to her not want them shut. and to other colleagues.

Michael Gove: I know exactly what my hon. Friend Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): The means; I am very well aware of the situation in Colchester; whole House welcomes the Secretary of State’s gracious and I know that the situation to which he alludes is one apology. However, is not the real deceit the more heinous that now, as a result of the decision that was taken on because it was intentional—the one perpetrated by Labour Monday, we can freely and, I hope, constructively discuss. Members who ran around the country during the election campaign promising school rebuilding programmes that Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): they knew the money was not there to supply? That is a Is the Secretary of State aware that his statement today disgrace. will have done nothing to assuage the anger in Coventry at his continued ignoring of the situation in Coventry? I Mr Speaker: Order. Let me say very gently that, in so understand that not a single one of its schools, even on far as one can hear everything that was said, the hon. the revised list, is to be given the go-ahead. That is a Gentleman has made his point, and made it very clearly, degree of neglect and irresponsibility on his part which, but the Secretary of State is not responsible for the frankly, we did not expect of him. policies or for the behaviour of other parties. He might, however, wish very briefly to reply. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. Once again, I expressed my regret on Michael Gove: I am sure that the whole House will Monday, and I underline it again today, that we are not have heard what my hon. Friend says. in a position to go ahead with 50% of the projects under Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Does the Secretary the Building Schools for the Future programme. My of State understand not only the anger but the confusion reason for coming to the House today was to apologise of the young students from Copland school and Alperton for the 25 or so schools that were wrongly categorised in school, who, at the very moment when he was at the the 1,400 or so about which we made an announcement. Dispatch Box making his original statement, were receiving However, I do understand the particular sense of regret an award from the organisers of Building Schools for that many will feel across Coventry—he and his the Future for their contribution to the design of the parliamentary neighbours—and I am sorry that the new schools that they then heard him announce were decision that I announced to the House on Monday was not going ahead? forced on us because of the regrettable financial legacy that we inherited. Does the Secretary of State also understand that the manner of his dealing with questions on the statement— Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): Mr Speaker: Order. I have cut the hon. Gentleman I thank the Secretary of State for the clarity that he has off at one and a half questions, but I think we have the provided today on a very thorny issue. Rather than gravamen of what he wanted to convey. focusing on the synthetic anger of Labour Members, I welcome his offer to apologise to the schools affected, Michael Gove: As the hon. Gentleman might know, I but ask him to ensure that he writes not only to the local have visited Copland school and know that its facilities education authority but to the individual headmasters. are less than adequate, so I appreciate the frustration I have spent today on the phone having to deal with that the staff, pupils and parents of that school will feel. disappointed parents and headmasters who are uncertain I underlined on Monday the regrettable fact that the of what the situation is. I welcome his apologies; can he economic circumstances that we inherited meant that please ensure that they are transmitted to the headmasters we could not go ahead as we might have wished with the in my area and the other areas affected? school rebuilding programme. I also stressed that the manner in which Building Schools for the Future had Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very good been organised did not seem to me to guarantee the best point; I shall certainly seek to do so. value for money. We are reviewing how capital is allocated in order to ensure that we get value for money so that Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I understand that those schools across the country that do need rebuilding the Secretary of State has apologised for errors in the and renovation will receive that money in a more timely list, but why did not the list come to the House in the and efficient manner in future. first place? Was it because he did not think that other Members of this House should see it, or was there some Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): To my ears, the other reason? Secretary of State’s apology is sincere. One school affected is the Eastbourne technology college, which is under Michael Gove: I thank the hon. Lady for her question. consideration. So that I can reassure the head and the No, absolutely not. I wanted to make sure that Members staff, can my right hon. Friend give me some indication had as much information as possible. In the course of of exactly the time line for the decision on whether the my statement, I outlined the criteria by which I had building goes ahead? been guided and the fact that we were going to terminate those projects which had not reached financial close, Michael Gove: We hope to make the decision in with the exception of some projects which were at the respect of the school to which my hon. Friend refers so-called close of dialogue stage. The fact that the list before the House rises for the summer, but I will obviously was placed in the Library, and not on the Table of the seek to talk to him after this statement in order to House and in the Vote Office, is something that I deeply clarify exactly the position that his school is in. 489 Schools Funding7 JULY 2010 Schools Funding 490

Several hon. Members rose— my responsibility alone. It was for that that I wished to apologise, and I underline that apology thanks to my Mr Speaker: Order. Just before there is a growing hon. Friend’s question. enthusiasm for participation in the statement—people are standing up who were not standing up before—perhaps Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Surely I can just emphasise to the House that the statement is the Secretary of State owes the House an explanation as about the manner in which matters were handled, and to why he brought wrong information to it. We do not indeed to an extent about the inaccuracy of lists. We are seem to have had such an explanation. Just for the not having a re-run of Monday’s statement, when the record, given that the list is now elsewhere and not Secretary of State, if memory serves me, was available available to hon. Members in the Chamber listening to for one hour and 20 minutes. We are not going through the statement, could he reassure us about and explain all of that again. the decision that has been made on the Staffordshire schools? Several hon. Members rose— Michael Gove: I would like to make two points in Mr Speaker: Order. Questions should therefore relate response to the hon. Lady’s question. I sought as quickly to matters in the statement tonight. as I could to bring to the House a statement explaining the future of Building Schools for the Future. That is Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): I thank the why I made the statement on Monday. There had been a Secretary of State for his dignified statement, and I great deal of speculation about the future of the project, have a deal of sympathy for him, but may I ask for a and to allow it to proceed would have meant that little more than sympathy for the people of Cardinal whichever schools were built, unnecessary additional Wiseman high school in my constituency, who have administrative costs would have been incurred. That is been told that their case for a rebuild under BSF is why I sought the fullest possible information, and sought under further discussion as a sample school? Can he to bring it to the House in a statement at the earliest give the House some indication of when he will make a possible stage. I know that the hon. Lady is a Member decision on that, because they desperately need to know of Parliament for Stoke-on-Trent. One announcement the facts? that I was able to make on Monday was that Stoke-on- Trent, as a local authority that has reached financial Michael Gove: Ealing is one of those local authorities close, will see all the schools under Building Schools for in that stage prior to financial close called close of the Future rebuilt or refurbished. dialogue. As the hon. Gentleman quite rightly points out, several schools in each of those local authority Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): Will the Secretary of areas are called sample schools. Those schools are thought State confirm that the other piece of important factual to be in the most urgent need. For that reason, we wish information he presented on Monday, the expansion of to do everything possible to try to ensure that they will the Teach First programme, is in fact accurate, and that receive funding as quickly as possible. As I mentioned the numbers were presented—[Interruption.] in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd), I hope to be able to provide clarity by Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry; I respect the hon. the time the House rises for the summer recess. Lady’s enthusiasm, but the short answer is that the Secretary of State cannot go into that, because it is way Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): I should like to beyond the terms of the statement today. If I know the thank the Secretary of State for his apology. I am sure hon. Lady, she will save it up for another day, and we that not one person in the Chamber has not made a look forward to hearing it on a subsequent occasion. mistake at some stage. I also imagine that few in the Chamber would be able to apologise to the House with Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): My such dignity and humility, and I thank him for that. hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North However, will he explain the reason for the list that was (Joan Walley) has gone to the heart of the situation, released, and the reasons for the cuts that we are seeing? and the Secretary of State has markedly failed to answer The fact is that there simply was no money—it was her searching question. When the Secretary of State promised and never delivered. Will he explain why the delivered his statement to the House, he presented the list was released in the first place? image of a man who had spent 24/7 examining the Building Schools for the Future programme and had at Michael Gove rose— his fingertips absolutely every issue relating to it, yet we learn today that he did not have that knowledge. He Mr Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman should should apologise to the House for his failure as a sometimes beware the entreaties of his friends, and I Secretary of State, and for failing markedly to be on top know he will be conscious of that. I have just made the of his brief. point that we cannot rehearse all the arguments behind the announcement. I will leave it to the judgment of the Michael Gove: I hear what the hon. Lady says, and I Secretary of State briefly to respond. remember also her passionate intervention on Monday. I take note exactly of what she said, and I can only Michael Gove: My hon. Friend refers to the list. The underline again that I apologise for the information I list was furnished to me by those involved in the Building presented to the House being inaccurate. Schools for the Future project, but it was my responsibility to check it before it came to the House. I was anxious to Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): It is extraordinary how do so in as rigorous a way as possible. The fact that the this list was produced and put before the House. Let us list contained inaccuracies when it came to the House is recall what happened on Monday: the Secretary of 491 Schools Funding7 JULY 2010 Schools Funding 492

State was cuddling the list as if it contained secret constituents, losing 20 school-building programmes. My information, and he slipped bits out only as they were constituents go to 20 of these schools. The Secretary of forced from him in response to questions from Opposition State will remember that he referred to Phoenix school Members. Therefore some of us on the Opposition as an excellent school. Its head teacher, Sir William Benches suspect that the Secretary of State knew that Atkinson, told the Evening Standard, “It is devastating the list was not complete and that there were errors in it news”. He has lost £25 million. He has buildings with when he was delivering it in the House—[Interruption.] concrete crumbling, iron pipework that has been fractured, lots of leaks and flat roofs that are leaking. Will the Mr Speaker: Order. I must ask the hon. Gentleman to Secretary of State therefore give parliamentary time, or resume his seat. I would not want to misunderstand the meet me and Sir William and the other heads, to discuss hon. Gentleman, but I am gaining an impression that what we do now? he is suggesting that—[Interruption.] Order. I am gaining an impression that he is suggesting that the Secretary of Michael Gove: I am always very happy to talk to the State was engaged in a knowing deception. [Interruption.] hon. Gentleman and, indeed, to schools in Hammersmith I really do not believe that to be so, and to my knowledge and Fulham. there is certainly no evidence for that, and I cannot have a Member accusing any other Member of knowing deception—of deliberately misleading people—unless Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I am sure that the that can be substantiated. Secretary of State will understand the massive anger in my constituency over what has happened, particularly Clive Efford rose— as the permanent secretary to the Department for Education has now clarified that the money for this programme Mr Speaker: I think it would be better if the hon. was there. Is the Secretary of State aware of the following Gentleman left it there, but I will allow him a sentence type of error, which happened in my constituency? A to try to clarify his position. school that was proposed for closure was told in the literature given out by his Department that that had been stopped. If that is another error he was not aware Clive Efford: I did say that some of us suspect that of, how many more might still be out there, and what is that is the case, Mr Speaker, and if you ask me to he going to do about that? withdraw that, I will obviously do so, but I think there is something that needs to be investigated further in the way that the Secretary of State treated the House. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman [Interruption.] for making that point. In my statement, I made it clear that I would be grateful if hon. Members would ensure Mr Speaker: Order. What I would say to the hon. that any information they had that pointed to inaccuracies Gentleman is that I have given a ruling and I think it is a was put to me, and I am very happy to discuss that. fair one. I asked the hon. Gentleman to clarify his Following the questions and points of order that have position, but it has not moved me, if I may say so. been raised by Opposition Members, my Department However, he is a very experienced parliamentarian—he has insisted on looking at all the information that has and I came into the House together—and if he wants to been placed in the public domain in order to check it for table questions or write letters or both, and to engage in accuracy. That is why I have come to the House today to all sorts of other activities that satisfy him in relation to make this statement. I believe that about 25 schools this subject, I do not think he will require any were miscategorised. I think that the shadow Minister, encouragement from me to do so. the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), indicated in the question that he asked that that was around the Michael Gove: In the spirit of the hon. Gentleman’s figure that he had identified as well. With other schools question, I mentioned in response to a previous question that were listed, there were clerical errors—for example, that two lists were furnished on Monday afternoon. the date of opening was not accurately recorded—and One list was supplied to Members, which listed schools for that I apologise. by constituency, and another went on my Department’s website, which listed schools by local authority. The aim Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I am not really sure was to be as candid as possible with all the people about this, Mr Speaker. Is the Secretary of State saying raising queries about the number and location of affected that the list that was put in the Vote Office this afternoon schools. I had sought to satisfy myself that the list I had is not accurate? I understand from my hon. Friend the was as accurate as possible, and I had ensured that the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) that a people who had supplied me with it knew the importance school that is listed as in her constituency actually is not of providing accurate information to the House. The in it. fact that inaccurate information was supplied to the House is, however, my fault, and my fault alone. The fact that the information did not reach the hon. Member in Michael Gove: It is my belief that the list we have the most accurate and timely way possible is my fault, placed in the Vote Office is accurate. I know that there and my fault alone, and I apologise unreservedly. was particular confusion regarding schools in Durham in the first list that was issued on Monday, but we have Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): We must sought to clarify that and I believe that it is now correct. take the apology for what it is, but the Secretary of State must now deal with the consequence of that, which is Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Secretary of State that he failed to give an opportunity to Back Benchers and to all hon. and right hon. Members for their to question him on the implications of, in the case of my co-operation. 493 7 JULY 2010 494

Business without Debate British Waterways Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mr Goodwill.)

DELEGATED LEGISLATION 7.43 pm Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Thank Order No. 118(6)), you for allowing this Adjournment debate, Mr Speaker, on the future of British Waterways. May I also thank the waterways Minister for his presence here tonight? EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES,ETC. This topic might seem a rather limited one, of interest That the draft Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment only to narrow-boat enthusiasts, barge owners, dog Businesses (Amendment) Regulations 2010, which were laid before walkers and lock-keepers, but it is of profound importance this House on 23 March 2010, in the previous Parliament, be not only for canal-side communities in villages, market approved.—(Mr Goodwill.) towns and cities across the country, but for the intellectual Question agreed to. validity of this Government. For what we have before us tonight is a test case for the big society in action. That, in case you missed it, Mr Deputy Speaker, is the Conservatives’ big idea: a commitment to society, not BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE the state, and to people power, not market dogma. My Motion made, message to the Minister is very simple: we are here to help him. As he begins his grand battle with the Treasury That, notwithstanding the practice of the House as to the on the future of British Waterways, I want him to know intervals between stages of Bills brought in upon Ways and that he has my support against the plunderers and Means Resolutions, more than one stage of the Finance Bill may privatisers who work alongside him. be taken at any sitting of the House.—( Mr Goodwill.) We are an inland nation as much as an island nation; a country shaped as much by our great rivers and Hon. Members: Object. historic canals as our encircling seas. Take, for instance, my own wonderful constituency of Stoke-on-Trent Central. Mr Speaker: Mr Mark Williams will now present a In Simeon Shaw’s 1829 classic, “History of the Staffordshire public petition. [Interruption.] Just before Mr Williams Potteries”, he writes of how gives the detail of his petition, I appeal to hon. and “in the vale below Burslem, July 26, l766, the first clod was cut of right hon. Members who are leaving the Chamber to do the Trent and Mersey Canal, by the late Josiah Wedgwood, Esq., so quickly and quietly, because we want to hear what he then recently appointed Potter to the Queen Consort of George III.” has to say. Wedgwood’s interest in canals was driven by profit rather than pleasure. He had already petitioned this place in 1763 for a new system of turnpike roads to allow for the easy carriage of the raw materials needed PETITION for his Etruria pottery works as well as the safe delivery of his finished ceramics, but still the road network let him down. So, in 1765 he personally subscribed £1,000 Blockade of Gaza for a new canal to connect the Trent with the Mersey and to allow his firm to export both nationally and internationally. The great engineer, James Brindley, was 7.42 pm commissioned for the task and soon his entire network of canals criss-crossed the country, with Staffordshire Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I have a petition as their box junction. on behalf of Mrs Elizabeth Morley and other constituents To allow for the transport of limestone and coal into from Ceredigion on the subject of the Israeli blockade Stoke-on-Trent, a new canal was added—the Caldon of Gaza. canal—that stretched from Etruria up into the surrounding The petition states: moorlands. All that underpinned the boom days of the The Petition of the people of Ceredigion, Potteries. “Pro patria populoque fluit”—it flows for country and people—was the Trent and Mersey’s motto Declares that the Petitioners believe that the Government and the money certainly flowed for Wedgwood. should take all actions within its power to end the blockade of Gaza. No wonder the great Adam Smith felt moved to praise canals for The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to condemn the blockade on Gaza and “diminishing the expence of carriage”, Israel’s attack on peace activists in international waters; and urges and putting the Government to demand of Israel the release of all activists “the remote parts of the country more nearly upon a level with detained and to urge all international institutions, including the those in the neighbourhood of the town”. UN, the EU and human rights agencies and organisations to work towards ending Israeli impunity. As a vehicle for the investment of new provincial capital flows and for easing the transport of goods, canals were And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. an essential feature of the first industrial revolution, but [P000842] by the 1840s, the canal boom had given way to railway 495 British Waterways7 JULY 2010 British Waterways 496 mania. Indeed, the consequence of rapid urbanisation been dramatic. All hon. Members will have witnessed in and industrialisation meant that the canals and waterways our constituencies the transformation in water quality of Britain were soon in danger of becoming open-air and amenities brought about by the new British Waterways sewerage systems. strategy. In Stoke-on-Trent, the Caldon canal has been In 1847, the Scottish novelist Hugh Miller described rescued from closure and now provides a stunning route the Irwell in Salford as from the urban gothic of the Potteries to the stark “a flood of liquid manure, in which all life dies, whether animal or beauty of the Staffordshire moorlands. Indeed, we even vegetable, and which resembles nothing in nature, except perhaps have our very own Hanley regatta based on the canal. the stream thrown out in eruption by some mud-volcano.” By the early 2000s, some 200 miles of new and My old friend Friedrich Engels was equally disparaging restored waterways were added to the 2,000 mile network—a about the state of Manchester’s Irk, faster expansion than at the height of the industrial “a narrow, coal-black, foul-smelling stream...out of whose depth revolution. Moreover, we now have an unprecedented bubbles of miasmatic gases constantly rise and give forth a stench 34,900 licensed boats on the network and some 11 million that is unbearable.” people visit its waters and banks every year. According Railways took over from the canals, canal companies to Her Majesty’s Treasury, out of the £330 million total went into liquidation or were run down by railway value of inland waterways managed and owned by owners and local authorities declined to pay for canal British Waterways, the amenity and recreational use upkeep. amounts to £230 million and the use for freight £700,000— but that £700,000 is not to be sniffed at, and it was with Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I great pleasure that we learned that Tesco has begun to understand the hon. Gentleman’s general point about move much of its wine stock by canal. railways taking over from canals, but does he accept Yet a revived canal network has also proved a highly that because the Glanusk estate refused to have the effective vehicle for some £10 billion-worth of urban dreaded railway across their land, the Mon and Brec regeneration. Whereas once we in this country sought canal persisted for a lot longer than most canals? to deny our industrial inland heritage, with buildings jutting up to the canal edge, offering no space for Tristram Hunt: I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. I waterside walks or civic space, canals are championed bow to his superior knowledge on the specificities of today as placemakers and urban signifiers. that point and I agree with it. However, there was a broad concern about the control railways had over Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): I am grateful to the canals in the late 19th century, which led to their being hon. Gentleman for bringing such a fascinating topic to run down and to a collapse in infrastructure. Tonnage the Floor of the House. I am delighted to listen to the levels fell, canal miles collapsed and locks crumbled. eloquent things that he says about the value that canals Eventually, the tide turned. The first stirrings of bring to our localities. In my case, the Kennet and Avon preservation can perhaps best be traced back to L. T. C. is the longest in-water canal in the country—if I may Rolt’s masterpiece, “Narrow Boat”, which described a make that proud boast—but I submit that its restoration journey taken in 1939 and expressed a terrible fear that had much to do with the volunteer activity of the Kennet and Avon Canal Trust, plus a hefty dose of “if the canals are left to the mercies of economists and scientific lottery money, delivered not coincidentally under the planners, before many years are past the last of them will become a weedy, stagnant ditch, and the bright boats will rot at the last Conservative Government. Of course, British wharves, to live only in old men’s”— Waterways had a part to play in that, but it is much and we should add women’s— more a reflection of the local love, enthusiasm and energy that the volunteers in my constituency feel for “memories”. such an important asset.

Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ Tristram Hunt: I am in full agreement with the hon. Co-op): My hon. Friend speaks eloquently about the Lady. The wonder of canals is the civil society, the history of canals. Does he not agree that the Olympic volunteering and the ethos around them. I was a trustee legacy in east London involves a future for our waterways of the Heritage Lottery Fund in a previous life and and that the future of British Waterways, among other followed with interest the Kennet and Avon’s progress. bodies, is therefore very important in ensuring that the We have seen in all sorts of communities along the renaissance of canals continues into the next century? Kennet and Avon the regeneration aspects brought by canals. Tristram Hunt: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and I do so as I shunt towards the future and get away Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab): I congratulate from the past. Having seen the Prescott sluice along the my hon. Friend on bringing this important issue before Lea valley, I know the wonders of the valley. the House. Does he agree that British Waterways has Unfortunately, in the mid-19th century, the Government had most success in promoting regeneration when it has failed to rise to the task of looking after the future of brought its own property, land and buildings to the the waterways. A cash-strapped British Transport table with partners and has led those partnerships, and Commission could not provide the investment needed that, if it were to lose control of that property and land to open up the waterways and still focused on freight and those buildings, it would be very much enfeebled in traffic, rather than on the leisure potential of the waterways. its ability to promote regeneration? Only with Barbara Castle’s great Transport Act 1968 was British Waterways given a specific mandate to focus Tristram Hunt: I am in full agreement with my hon. on exploiting the enjoyment potential of our rivers and Friend, who brings me to the dark spectre of Her canals. Since then, of course, the transformation has Majesty’s Treasury, which is where we fear that forces 497 British Waterways7 JULY 2010 British Waterways 498

[Tristram Hunt] Meg Hillier: Does my hon. Friend, like me, tremble at the thought of the alternative to the model that he are at work that want to access that property in not the proposes—that this asset is sold off and thereby, once most progressive manner. The capacity of British Waterways and for all, is out of public control and away from to use volunteering, to bring in all sorts of other funders where it should be, which is in the hearts of the public? and to have that property asset inspires regeneration. Tristram Hunt: I am in full agreement. We do not Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op): know what would happen were British Waterways to be I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the way in which he privatised in terms of fees, uses and common access, is introducing the debate. As a former waterways Minister, and that sense of heritage, of a past coming down to us. may I tell him that what is striking is the nature of the The worry is that the Minister has decided to take no cross-party consensus in respect not only of canals as a decisions until after the forthcoming comprehensive vital part of our heritage, which he has illustrated so spending review. My worry is that by the time we reach well, but of their importance to tourism, regeneration the CSR, his colleagues in the Treasury might have and the environment? Will he invite the Minister to decided that flogging off the property portfolio was too embrace the proposal made in the last Parliament to good an opportunity to miss. We might find ourselves create a national trust for canals, to secure their long-term in the awful position of watching the Chancellor stand future and viability, using the assets to which he refers at the Dispatch Box and sell our national heritage down for the benefit of the long-term future of the canal the proverbial Kent and Avon, in the classic Treasury network and therefore balancing the strengths of the manner of knowing the price of everything and the system with the resources to deal with the repair and value of nothing. maintenance requirements, without which the canals will not be much of a heritage for long? Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): In my constituency, I have a huge swathe of the Grand Union Tristram Hunt: I am in full agreement. First, I would canal, with fantastic marinas such as Braunston and a like to say what the Minister should not do, which is huge interest of the populace, who spend much of their listen to the Adam Smith Institute, which is keen to leisure time around the canals. Given the hon. Gentleman’s privatise British Waterways, and in the process hopes to analogy that the dark spectre of the Treasury is lurking realise £400 million—a rather low price, I think, for the all around, will he remember that in the dark days of centuries of heritage as well as the property assets. the last Labour Government, when European fines There is no doubt, however, that a change in governance were levied on the Government, money was moved is needed. Currently, the nation is underspending by away from the British Waterways’ budget into other around £30 million a year on its waterways, and, in the areas to cope with that funding black hole? I would like words of British Waterways’ chairman, to think that there is definitely cross-party agreement “without the required spend on canal maintenance and repairs on the idea of mutualisation in the future. the overall physical state of Britain’s waterways will once again go into decline.” Tristram Hunt: The hon. Gentleman confirms the As my right hon. Friend makes clear, the Labour party point that the traditional model of funding is really no fought the last general election on precisely that message longer credible, not least under this Government’s rather of reform. aggressive approach to the public finances. In December 2009, the then Government published I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we are in some details of its asset portfolio and promised form of agreement, and that is why we have come together this evening to support the Minister in his “to consider alternative models for the British Waterways business as a whole, such as mutual or third sector structures.” lonely pilgrim’s progress against the big beasts of Whitehall. He might call it the big society, we might call it the That is what my right hon. Friend has described as the co-operative spirit, but what we must seek to establish is National Trust model, whereby British Waterways’property a modern national trust for British Waterways, and a endowment will be placed in a charity-locked mechanism financially secure, democratic and sustainable future for to fund future maintenance. But this means more than the inland waterways that made our wealth and now just establishing an effective financial footing. It also help to shape our national identity. means mutualising the governance system by extending democratic control to waterway licence holders, employees, volunteers, partner organisations such as local charities 8pm and the lottery, as well as members of the general The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for public. That third sector model will give energy, activism Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): and public buy-in to the sector. We in the Labour I congratulate the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent movement call it the co-operative principle. Central (Tristram Hunt) on securing this debate. After So it was with great delight that I read in the coalition such a tense afternoon in the Chamber, it is nice to be agreement that the Government able to find a subject on which there is a large degree of “will support the creation and expansion of mutuals, co-operatives, agreement across the House. He is well known for charities and social enterprises, and enable these groups to have having a keen interest in the heritage and history of this much greater involvement in the running of public services.” country, and I also know that he combines this passion I was equally impressed by the Minister’s statement on with representing with pride the constituency that has 21 June where he highlighted the role of civil society in more miles of canals than any other in England. I take creating what the Government call the big society, and similar pride in the canal—the Kennet and Avon canal his commitment to look at a third sector model for the in west Berkshire—that runs in part through the future of the waterways. constituency I have the honour of representing. I am 499 British Waterways7 JULY 2010 British Waterways 500 old enough to remember when it was in large parts just I hope we can continue these debates. I hope that what I a ditch. It was restored with the hard work, love and am about to say will satisfy his concerns, if I have the what the Americans call emotional capital of local time. people, with the backing of British Waterways and I am well aware of the concerns of Members from all lottery money, as my hon. Friend the Member for parties about the future of British Waterways. I made a Devizes (Claire Perry) pointed out. That has created an statement to the House on 21 June in which I explained asset of unique value. our intention to move British Waterways to the civil The hon. Gentleman talked about the added value of society, subject to the outcome of the spending review. I the canals. We must not be concerned purely with again had the opportunity to set out the Government’s quality of life and recreational value; they are of course position to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central a financial asset because of what they provide through and others during oral questions two weeks ago, and I tourism and the local economy, particularly in rural welcome this further opportunity. areas such as mine. The hon. Member for Hackney I fully understand the important role that volunteering South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) attends debates on and the civil society have played over many years. these matters assiduously. She feels passionately about Volunteering on the waterways has a long tradition, and the Regent’s canal, just as so many of us feel passionately many enthusiasts give freely and generously of their about our local canals. I have learned from the canal in time to help re-create and restore our waterways. Without her part of London the ability of canals to unlock that, many historic canals would no longer be in operation regeneration, and to be a focal point for the local and the network that we have today would be much community in a way we cannot just ignore. poorer for it. I firmly believe that civil society has a Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I am sure that the valuable role to play in delivering public services, and as Minister agrees that the 23 canal reservoirs up and I recently announced, we will therefore continue to look down the country are also of enormous value to this in detail at such a model for British Waterways. As the country. Many of them provide excellent wildlife reserves hon. Gentleman pointed out, that is a good example of and, hence, recreation, and are assets for our tourist the big society we are trying to create. industry. I assure hon. Members that that would not be a privatisation of British Waterways. I hope the hon. Richard Benyon: My hon. Friend touches on a very Gentleman and others will get the message across to important point. Sir John Lawton is about to report on some of their colleagues on the Opposition Benches work commissioned by the last Government that this that that is not what we are about. We want a mutualised Government firmly supports. It examines the coherence product for the waterways, dependent on three clear between different natural sites around the country, and objectives. First, it must have a clear purpose and looks into corridors of biodiversity that can flow and robust governance arrangements that protect waterways allow species to increase in population in different parts assets and the public benefits that they bring, both now of the country. Canals are a vital link in our natural and in the future. Secondly, it must ensure that all users, environment, and I am keen during my tenure in this local communities and other stakeholders can hold the post—however long it lasts—to bang that drum as hard new body to account. Thirdly, it must ensure that the as I can. waterways are placed on a more sustainable footing for I do not care whether our modern canals structure is the longer term while reducing the ongoing cost to the based on the writings and teachings of Friedrich Engels taxpayer. and is considered part of the co-operative movement, or whether it can be considered the inheritance of Edmund Burke and his little platoons. What matters is Roger Williams: I am very encouraged by the positive that canals are properly managed and have a sustainable way in which the Minister is responding to the debate. I long-term future. can see how such a model can deliver sustainable maintenance of the waterways, but on the Monmouthshire I shall do my best to deal with many of the points and Brecon canal, for example, we had a breach that raised by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central cost £1 million to repair. How would such a model deal and others. However, I would caution him on his view with those emergency situations? of the Treasury. In my experience, it consists of cuddly souls, warm-hearted and full of understanding on these matters. I do not share his deep pessimism. Richard Benyon: I was shown a photograph of that breach by the chairman of British Waterways at my Alun Michael rose— meeting with him last week. It is expensive to maintain the waterways, and I hope that what I am about to say Richard Benyon: I am glad to give way to the chairman will show that we can provide the means to ensure that of the all-party group on waterways. whatever organisation emerges has access to funding— probably never enough, but at least enough to deal with Alun Michael: The Minister has an almost unique major problems such as that. experience of the Treasury. However, I encourage him to make the case that a model that engages the public and makes them feel a part of the ownership and Sir Peter Soulsby: I very much welcome what the running of the canals might make sense financially to Minister is saying about the future of British Waterways, the Treasury, too. but does he accept that if it is to have the sustainable future that he talks about, it is vital that it takes with it Richard Benyon: I am delighted that the right hon. its assets and its current property, and that they are not Gentleman is in the Chamber for the debate, as he is a ripped out by his friends in the Treasury before the notable chairman of the all-party group through which transfer takes place? 501 British Waterways7 JULY 2010 British Waterways 502

Richard Benyon: I am conscious that this will not careful to ensure that we receive the best advice and get work unless that happens. The scale of that asset transfer the correct model. I can assure her that officials in my is probably above my pay grade, but I am absolutely Department are working hard on the issue and are conscious that it has to be done in a way that enables the committed to it, although we shall have a difficult time organisation to operate just as any other organisation ahead with the comprehensive spending review, which I of the type I am about to describe could. That is shall talk about in a moment. absolutely vital and a given. We would have to have a completely new board or As part of that work, we are considering including council that would shape its own future. It would not be the Environment Agency’s navigations. I have an open British Waterways by another name, but a new structure, mind on that and want to understand the pros and cons, in different hands altogether. We do not aim to impose but my initial view is that it, too, might be suitable for a a particular model for a new civil society body, so we civil society rather than a Government body to run. will work up different options in partnership with That would help to ensure that we had a coherent vision stakeholders, through workshops, forums and other for the main inland waterways of England and Wales. engagement mechanisms. It is vital to understand the I know from meetings I have already had with waterways views of all interested parties if we are to reach a stakeholders that they have concerns, which they have successful conclusion to our work on an alternative expressed passionately, about two questions: what will model for the future management of our waterways. As happen to British Waterways’ property assets—the point part of that engagement, I am considering a suggestion just made by the hon. Member for Leicester South (Sir recently made to me to include representatives from Peter Soulsby)—and can they influence decisions on the waterways user groups on the current British Waterways governance model of any new body? It is clear that board. We need to be ready for the big change in culture British Waterways would need to retain its property involved in the possible move to civil society. assets for a viable civil society model. On the second As the House will be aware, very tough decisions issue, much work has yet to be done on the appropriate need to be made in the coming months that will affect governance structure. One model is for a national charitable public expenditure for the next four years. That will trust. I recently received a letter that was co-signed by a inevitably affect the resources available for inland waterways number of representative waterways bodies, including spend in British Waterways and the Environment Agency. the Inland Waterways Association and the Angling Finally, let me make it clear that I believe strongly Trust. The letter welcomed such a model, subject to that the inland waterways are a vibrant resource that decisions on governance arrangements and the level of can provide a wide range of benefits and opportunities ongoing Government support. for individuals and communities across the country. I know that there is some nervousness about the Although we may find ourselves in extremely challenging prospect of change and what it might mean for those times for public investment, in the longer term, the with particular interests in the waterways. potential of our waterways can and will be realised if we all embrace the possibilities at all levels. I believe that Meg Hillier: I do not wish to detain the Minister, but moving British Waterways out of Government control having been a Minister seeking advice on setting up to civil society has the potential to make a significant social enterprise mutuals and the like, I would caution and innovative contribution to the long-term sustainability him to be alert to any advice that he might receive from and resilience of the waterways, by providing additional within the civil service about setting up a mutual. I income and greater engagement of all users, volunteers would also ask him where else he might be seeking and local communities in waterways management. We advice from, because it is important that any model be will therefore be exploring all possibilities— properly drawn up. 8.13 pm Richard Benyon: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order is absolutely right. It is vital that we are extremely No. 9(7)). 69WH 7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 70WH

poverty. I should perhaps declare—although I was told Westminster Hall that it was not a declaration—that I am off the gas grid and reliant on oil for central heating in my rented Wednesday 7 July 2010 cottage in Westleton. I want to focus on people who live with no access to the gas mains, even though 20% of them live within a mile and a half of national gas [MR CLIVE BETTS in the Chair] connections, and I welcome some of the efforts made by the National Grid Company to start connecting more Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) households. All hon. Members share concerns about people who are reliant on oil, solid fuel and liquefied Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting petroleum gas, as that is where the problems lie. be now adjourned.—(Mr Goodwill.) In 2009, in a parliamentary question, the Government were asked what they were doing to tackle fuel poverty, 9.30 am and the answer was Warm Front. However, I am afraid Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): First, I that Warm Front is not working in areas that are thank Mr Speaker for granting what I hope will be an difficult to reach, and that is reflected in the evidence important exploratory debate. I welcome the number of gathered by various organisations. Time and again, contributions that we shall hear, and I am delighted that people in my constituency—or other hard-to-reach areas, after such a late sitting last night, so many people are such as the constituencies of some Members in the still interested in fuel poverty in rural Britain. Chamber today—are losing out in such schemes. There has been limited success, and I recognise that some Fuel poverty is defined as when someone spends energy companies have been kicked and told that they more than 10% of their net income on fuel. As we know, must start doing something about the situation, but the main contributory factors are a low income, the these are early days and we need to kick even harder. high price of energy, high energy consumption or houses with low energy efficiency. There have been plenty of Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) debates and petitions on the subject, but I felt that it (LD): I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing this was important to raise it again at the start of this subject before the House. She makes an important Parliament and in advance of the spending review, so point about the difficulties and challenges in rural areas. that Ministers understand the concerns of their constituents Is not one of the added challenges the fact that so far, in rural areas. schemes have tended to come up with the simplest way Yesterday, the Commission for Rural Communities of making a house more efficient? It is right to make published a report entitled, “The state of the countryside efficiency a priority because relying on prices proved a 2010”, which made specific reference to fuel poverty, mistake for the previous Government. However, in rural and noted that things are getting worse rather than areas, much of the housing stock is not constructed in better. Across the House, we must recognise that fuel such a way that it is easy to make it more efficient. Any poverty has continued to increase rather than decrease, scheme must be far more robust and long-term to and we need to look for radical solutions to change transform such houses into places where people can live that. Instead of an ambitious strategy of eliminating without fuel poverty. fuel poverty for vulnerable households by 2010, the number of households starting to enter fuel poverty has Dr Coffey: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The risen from about 2.5 million to about 5 million. extent of solid-wall housing is a particular issue that I recognise that this is a devolved matter, and that the cavity insulation fails to address. It is mainly prevalent Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government in rural areas, but also in London where the challenge is have their own schemes. It is important to learn from damp Victorian houses. Instead of national schemes, I some of the shared issues, and look at how different would like the Government to consider more local challenges are approached. schemes and ensure that any grants available address local needs. My constituents, and many others, would then be able to access help that is relevant for them, Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): The rather than being told either that they do not qualify for hon. Lady is right to say that some of the issues that we a scheme, or that a scheme is useless for them. Such will debate this morning are devolved. However, other local schemes would be welcomed by people who feel issues such as competition policy are not devolved and that they are on the fringes of society when it comes to are matters for Westminster. Government help on this issue. Dr Coffey: I recognise that there are issues such as Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): The hon. Lady is competition, and the impact made by Calor Gas was a making good progress on this matter. She mentioned successful change. The Office of Fair Trading is monitoring Warm Front, which was a national scheme, and the the situation to assess its effectiveness. At some point in need for a better, more tailored local delivery. Does she the near future, we should like a review to see whether agree that one of the biggest problems with Warm that change has worked, or whether people are still in Front—although it was set up with the best of intentions— what is effectively a false market. From speaking to was the usual difficulty that Governments face due to some of my constituents, I understand that the change the strange and highly centralised method of public has allowed them an element of choice, whereas before procurement, which means that they have to narrow they were handcuffed to one supplier. down and reduce the number of companies with which My constituency of Suffolk Coastal has 17% fuel they can contract? Therefore, the prices for much of the poverty, which is slightly lower than the national average work undertaken are astronomical and much higher where about one in four rural households face fuel than they would be if provided by a local small company. 71WH 7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 72WH

Dr Coffey: My hon. Friend is right. The issue is higher up-front cash advances, because if people have particularly prevalent in rural areas, where prices have an oil central heating system, they cannot switch suddenly meant that less work can be done with the available to photovoltaics and everything is fine. They have to rip grant. One of my constituents suggested that I promote out the entire heating system and put in a brand-new a private Member’s Bill on making sustainable energy one. more local, and I hope that the Government will address Such measures would help the people of Suffolk that point by absorbing elements of that idea in their Coastal because our climate is similar to that of Jerusalem. thinking on any future schemes. It may not be sunny every day, but there is plenty of sun Many hon. Members are present, so I will move on and little rain. We are missing out on marvellous resources and speak a little about the market. I recognise that all around us, because the amount of cash that we need Calor Gas and similar LPG suppliers provide an to spend up front to change our systems is just prohibitive. opportunity for people to heat their houses without Bold thinking, rebalancing in favour of rural communities having everything provided electrically. A premium is and tailoring solutions to allow local people to make paid for that because of the delivery method. However, the decisions that best suit them, rather than having I would like LPG suppliers to go further, to challenge top-down schemes, are some of the issues that I want to their efficiencies and work with particular groups to raise today in addressing fuel poverty in rural Britain. ensure that the people they serve receive the best value possible. Micro combined heat and power boilers are being developed, and I would like more investment in 9.41 am technology so that we can address those kinds of problem. Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): I congratulate the There are no social tariffs for oil or LPG, and it is hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) on initiating challenging to think about how they could be created this very important debate. It is also timely, given the for the relatively small group of people who access that election of a new Government. I have already been in type of fuel. I could argue that we should receive some correspondence with the Department of Energy and money from the mains gas and electricity companies to Climate Change and I shall come to that in a moment. redress the balance. I am pleased that people can now I want to start by pointing out that this issue is about hold a post office bank account or, if they do not have rural Britain—the periphery areas of Great Britain and access to that, can get a direct debit discount. Without Northern Ireland. The periphery area that I represent in straying too far from the subject, dare I say that the north-west Wales suffers from a double whammy: most number of post offices in my part of the world has of the household customers pay extra for their fuel, but reduced dramatically over the past 10 years? That presents they also pay extra fuel costs for their transport. We its own challenge. have had a number of debates on the issue in this I understand that at least one company, EDF Energy, Chamber, and I appreciate what the Chancellor of the offers dual fuel discounts to people who have access Exchequer said in the Budget about looking at rural only to electricity rather than electricity and gas, although areas and pilot schemes whereby transport costs and I do not know how much the company advertises the the price of petrol at the pump can be considered. Pilot discount. I will do my best in forthcoming weeks to schemes should also consider rural areas on the periphery advertise it to my constituents—I might take up the of the United Kingdom when it comes to energy prices offer myself. I was not aware of it until I spoke to and energy costs as well. That is what I believe the hon. somebody from EDF Energy yesterday. Lady was developing in her argument. There are things the market can do. I recognise, Periphery areas are a special case. I do not accept that though, that as the price of social tariffs or similar in the 21st century, areas on the periphery should have measures add costs to industry, they end up being paid to pay much more in fuel costs. I know from having for through increasing fuel prices. However, it is an the port that is the gateway to Ireland and Wales in important part of social responsibility to ensure that my constituency that Northern Ireland’s problem is people in rural areas are not freezing to death and being compounded by fuel smuggling from the Irish Republic. ignored. Fuel is smuggled in and out of the United Kingdom via In terms of the Government, I hope that we shall see the south of Ireland. There are huge problems that we a change in the balance of schemes. I have talked about need to grapple with. more local solutions. I want any possible future investment I have campaigned to reduce both the cost of petrol to be rebalanced in favour of rural schemes and—dare I at the pumps and the cost of energy supplies to homes. say it?—not just for people on benefits. A number of People living in periphery areas and rural areas are people just miss out here or there, but like everyone else, being ripped off. The hon. Lady says that she wants to they still need to heat their homes. The cost of oil goes give the companies a kicking. I will join her and I think up; the cost of LPG is going up. That is hurting more that all of us should, because mass profits have been and more people. We are trying to reach some of the made by many of the companies over a long time and communities that have never been on benefits and do the people who are paying for it predominantly live in not necessarily want to start now—it is an element of the rural areas of Britain. The market is letting people dignity for them. By the way, I want to correct a down badly in those areas. misconception. Although fuel poverty affects a number All that my constituents and those of the hon. Lady of pensioners, and two thirds of my constituents are, I and every other hon. Member in the Chamber are believe, over 60, it affects people of all ages, including asking for is a level playing field. Yes, they want reduced people with young families. We need to remember that. costs, but they want to pay the same as people in urban What else am I looking for? We are expecting £6,500 areas and other parts of the United Kingdom, and grants, which will be repaid through efficiency savings importantly they want choice. Quite often in isolated in fuel bills. I would like rural people to be able to access rural areas, people just have the choice of propane gas, 73WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 74WH coal or other things. Off-grid areas do not have access In my constituency—I am sure that other hon. Members to mains gas and are losing out. The market says that it have experience of this—many of the problems are not will provide choice to customers, but in rural areas they just with stone houses that are a century old or more, simply do not have that choice and they are penalised but with estates that were built in the 1960s and ’70s, for it through the price that they pay. That limited where the developers simply did not put gas mains in choice and paying more for fuel is a huge problem. and did not provide for up-to-date fuel, leaving people I said that I had already raised the matter in on the periphery of the gas mains area. I am sure that at correspondence with the Department, and I first did so that time people would happily have paid for access to at business questions, when I asked for a debate on the the gas mains from those properties, and it would have issue. A debate in Government time would be very been a selling point for the builders, who were very much welcome in addition to this important Adjournment short-sighted. debate. I have had, over many years, helpful responses When I talk about areas off the grid, I am not talking from Energy Ministers and progress has been made. about individual isolated properties but more often Warm Front is a good national project that has helped about small villages, towns and hamlets that are a short an awful lot, and good energy efficiency measures are distance from the mains. There are issues about getting available. I am certainly familiar with what has been the pressure to the level needed but, again, I am sure done by the Welsh Assembly and I know that other that in the 21st century that can be done relatively devolved Administrations are working on the issue, too. simply. This Parliament, local government and the Welsh Assembly can work together with the distribution network to Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Does the hon. Gentleman ensure that we get better services to people in these accept that there are two problems with that? First, areas. there are many rural areas where the gas main will In the very helpful reply that I received from the simply never go, because of practical difficulties. Secondly, Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate in an era of rising gas prices and a possible shortage of Change, the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), gas, does he believe that gas is really the way forward for he said that he recognised that more needed to be done. dealing with rural fuel poverty? One option that he came up with was a further roll-out of energy efficiency measures. I disagree with the Albert Owen: I welcome that intervention, but that is hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine not the point that I am making. I am saying that we (Sir Robert Smith), who said that we have been should have renewables as well. Areas close to the gas concentrating just on price. Huge amounts of money mains should be offered a choice. I have seen the price have been invested in energy efficiency measures. In my differential between the bills of people who are off the constituency, most of the houses have been done, and to gas mains grid and people who are on it, and it is simply a very high standard, but the price is the issue. wrong and unfair that some people are paying so much more. Sir Robert Smith: The hon. Gentleman is right to say Andrew George: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. He that the price is the issue. The problem was that in the will be aware that the level at which ground source heat early days of the previous Government, because of the pumps are sold does not ensure cost efficiency for way in which the market was working, prices for domestic homes. In fact, the payback period required is 25 to gas were falling so dramatically that people were coming 40 years, and we will only achieve anything by rolling out of fuel poverty and it seemed as if the job was being things out in larger numbers. However, given the hon. done. Then the price started to go up relentlessly and it Gentleman’s excellent record in arguing this case, does became clear that much greater work should have been he share my disappointment that the previous Government done in the good times to make the housing stock more failed to support—indeed talked out—the Fuel Poverty efficient, rather than responding after the fact. Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), whose private Member’s Albert Owen: I agree partly with what the hon. Gentleman Bill included many of the measures for which the hon. says. It is easy to be wise after the event. He will Gentleman is arguing? remember that at the time we were in the “dash for gas”, gas was relatively cheap across the whole United Kingdom Albert Owen: The hon. Gentleman knows me well and our eye was off the ball, because people were enough to know that I would not pander to the previous getting cheap fuel. Yes, more could and should have Labour Government when they were in office, and I will been done then, and it should have been done over the certainly not try to defend their record now when I past 13 years. I hope that more will be done over the think that it is wrong. The hon. Member for Somerton next few years to ensure that we alleviate fuel poverty in and Frome (Mr Heath) has an excellent record on this rural areas. issue, and now that he is in the Government I hope that The Minister told me he was involved in the option of he will able to use greater leverage on Ministers to promoting renewable heating, which is another important ensure that measures are introduced. As Deputy Leader way forward. Although I shall argue for the gas network of the House, he is in the privileged cross-governmental to be extended throughout the United Kingdom, we position of being able to bring everyone together to get need, particularly with the low-carbon economy that we things done as soon as possible, and he will get my are moving towards, to consider renewables. Geothermal 100% support in doing so. energy is important in many areas. It would be helpful if In his helpful letter to me, the Energy Minister said new estates and new housing, including affordable housing, that some schemes are working and that Ofgem has have such measures installed at the construction stage. made progress on connecting vulnerable households to 75WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 76WH

[Albert Owen] Those issues need to be looked at, which is why I want to move on to the excellent campaign by Which?, the gas networks by encouraging large gas distribution the consumer group, which is looking for greater networks to work with agencies to produce results. He transparency in energy prices. The old chestnut from said that about 20,000 households would be connected many of the suppliers and fuel companies is that the to the grid by 2013, but we simply do not have the retail price is linked to the wholesale price. When wholesale agencies or the local authority initiative in my area, so prices go up, the companies say that they are forced to there is no lead partner. I urge the Government to look put their retail prices up, but when wholesale prices at that, because we need a thrust from central Government, come down, companies say that the system is very and from regional and national Government in Wales complicated and sophisticated, and it does not necessarily and Scotland, to push the issue forward. I acknowledge follow that the retail price is linked to the wholesale that there are many excellent energy efficiency measures, price. We therefore need greater transparency. and I repeat that the Welsh Assembly Government have I am asking for a breakdown from suppliers to show an excellent record in this field and are taking fuel exactly the amount of bulk gas that they get at wholesale poverty and their part in dealing with it very seriously, prices and what they pay for it. Some of the electricity but we all need to work together. companies, and the companies that supply gas and The boiler scrappage scheme was useful in helping electricity, are now more open and transparent, and many people to replace equipment. That is a big issue, they are gaining from that—greater transparency is in and the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal is right that the interests of the suppliers, as well as the consumer. there are a lot of associated costs with changing to The Committee of Selection is meeting today, and as a another source of energy and not least to another member of the new Select Committee on Energy and supplier. People have to remove the gas storage equipment Climate Change, I will push for greater transparency so in their properties, which is costly, although some companies that we can see exactly the link between wholesale and will take over that cost because they will get the business retail prices. That is an important move forward, which in the future. However, when people apply, they are would benefit consumers, particularly in rural areas, hampered by additional costs, so the process is not easy. and I would welcome that. The Government should be People feel trapped with their supplier, which is putting encouraged to work with the consumer watchdog to an extra cost on them. bring about greater transparency. Dr Coffey: This is a genuine question. I was under the I know that a number of Members want to speak in impression that rules had gone out saying that universal the debate, and I do not want to detain them, but I have connectors now have to be supplied, so there is no issue concentrated on off-mains gas areas because they are about equipment staying. That is part of the new deal. being hit particularly hard, and we need to look again at extending the network; indeed, hon. Members in previous Albert Owen: Things certainly have improved, but the Parliaments raised the issue. The irony is that although change has not been advertised very openly. When my constituency is on the periphery, I am promoting the people have been approached in the past, it is clear that concept of an energy island because we have energy they have felt trapped. The customer needs clarity to generation in the area. We have a nuclear power station ensure that they can get a better deal from a different and wind farms, and we welcome both because they supplier. generate employment and contribute to the United The core of the problem remains the cost of domestic Kingdom’s energy security. We also have projects that fuel, particularly in rural areas and areas on the periphery, are looking at tidal energy, so we are well positioned to and that is why the debate is so important. A constituent provide the new renewable energy that the Energy Minister in her 80s who came to see me in late May was very told me was a way forward. However, although the grateful for the additional Government support that Wylfa power station in my constituency supplies more she received through the winter fuel allowance, which than 30% of energy in Wales, some people living in helped to alleviate some of the problems that she faced, close proximity to it pay some of the highest prices in but she was still paying huge amounts for her propane Wales for their energy because they do not have the gas. From 2008 to April 2010, her company supplied opportunity to use the gas network and they do not the her at a unit cost of between 45 and 51p per litre. That same choice as many people in non-rural and urban gave her an average quarterly bill of between £400 and areas of the United Kingdom. £700, which is an enormous amount for an elderly I welcome the response that I received from the person living on her own in an older property. The Energy Minister. He is a sincere man and he will work property and the dozen like it on the same small estate with the deputy Leader of the House and others to are not that old, but I was astonished to find that the ensure that we get a good deal for people in my constituency, properties that did not have access to mains gas were all in peripheral areas and in rural Britain. Once again, I paying different prices to the same supplier. The households congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal, had to go through something like an auction to get the because this is a hot subject. It needs dealing with now, basic unit cost down—they had to negotiate. and I hope that we can move forward. I raised the issue with the company. In addition to the unit cost, there was the cost of associated charges such as the standing charge and gas surcharges, which took Several hon. Members rose— the price up considerably. When the company replied to the correspondence I had sent on behalf of my constituent, Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. Five hon. Members it said that the variations were due to the geography, the are indicating that they want to speak, which means seasons and the type of agreement, but I am talking that they have about eight minutes each if we are to get about households in the same estate paying different the winding-up speeches in. I cannot insist on that, but prices. it would be helpful if hon. Members bore it in mind. 77WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 78WH

9.59 am which can be enormously beneficial to the wider country in tackling climate change and creating energy security, Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): It is a which has also been mentioned. However, there is also pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Betts. I an economic benefit to the struggling communities that pay tribute to the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal are served. (Dr Coffey) and congratulate her on securing the debate, which is incredibly important for a range of reasons, I want to get in a word for my county. Cumbria has many of which were set out by the hon. Member for the fastest-falling water in England but only six plugged-in Ynys Môn (Albert Owen). hydro schemes. That is scandalous, and I would like the Government to redress the situation quickly. Last week, One important reason to discuss the issue is the I met a team from Kentmere, the charitable trust running incorrect assumption made, I dare say, throughout the Kentmere Hydro project. The 350 kW scheme has Whitehall and other places that rural areas are affluent. the full backing of planners in the national park, which That is a staggeringly inaccurate assumption, but it is is staggering. It also has the backing of the community, understandable, based on the headline figures. My which is less staggering. The one thing that could hold constituency has the second lowest unemployment in the project up, of course, is finance. England—I probably should not say that out loud; we The trust is not looking for handouts, particularly at will be off the list for every grant going—and average this time, but I ask the Minister to make it clear that the house prices are £250,000. So far, so good, but the green investment bank announced by the Chancellor largest number of jobs available in my patch, which I will be able to provide loan finance for such charitable suspect also applies for many hon. Members present, is trusts, and that those trusts will be able to qualify in at the minimum wage. their bid for feed-in tariffs. That community project The average wage is about £18,000 a year, which could be replicated across rural Britain, as long as there means that the gap between house prices and average are clear signs of active, practical encouragement from incomes is the largest outside the south-east of England. the Government. The same applies to anaerobic digestion. We have only 3,500 council homes left, following the I hope that the Government will back anaerobic digester foolish and damaging sell-off of the 1980s, with a start-ups in rural communities as a way to generate waiting list of 5,000. All that means that although income and green energy from waste. benefit uptake is low in the south lakes, the incidence of I spoke last week to an older couple living in the Lake poverty, housing need and, especially, fuel poverty is district, whose income is just under £10,000. They spend extremely high—above 20%. In addition, the average £2,000 a year on council tax and just over £2,000 a year age is 10 years above the national average. Many people on fuel. They are very typical. Their plight is worsened who live in the communities that I represent are retired by the price of petrol. I urge the Minister to consider and do not, therefore, appear in unemployment figures, the impact of fuel duty on rural communities where but they live in real poverty. little or no public transport is available and there is no It is vital that the Government should understand choice for many people, however poor they may be, but that fuel poverty is more likely in rural communities to use the car. because of the age of the housing stock, which has been I am sure that other hon. Members know, as I do, explained by both hon. Members who have already many people who must make the appalling choice between spoken. I shall not go into further detail, except to say petrol in the car or food on the table. I welcome the that homes are harder to insulate the older they are, and Government’s investigation of rural exemptions on fuel if they have no cavity wall to fill. duty, and of course I call for Cumbria, the Lake district In addition, as we have heard, many homes in rural, and the dales to be included in any such pilot. sparsely populated areas are off the mains for gas, and They key factor behind all fuel poverty, as we all sometimes even for electricity, and are much harder and know, is the cost of fuel. That is why it is vital that there more expensive to heat. However, although villages should be further social tariffs covering all fuel systems—not such as Hawkshead, Coniston, Grasmere, the Langdales, just mains fuel systems—and moves to ensure that the Dent and other areas in my constituency are rural and cheapest unit costs are the ones that people pay for first. have an elderly housing stock, it is important to remember As things stand, an elderly couple in fuel poverty heating that many of the larger towns—larger, that is, by our their cottage in Grasmere could easily pay more per standards—such as Kendal, which is a huge metropolis unit for the energy they use than a City banker heating of 14,000 to 15,000 houses, have benefited hugely from his luxurious second home next door. If I had a fiver for Warm Front. It is important not to knock it too much. every time a politician said we are living in difficult It did the easy things quickly and tackled fuel poverty times, I could probably pay off the national debt, but among some of the poorest families. The areas they however fair the Government try to be in reducing the were living in might have been built-up, but they were deficit, these difficult times are bound to be most difficult not necessarily in urban areas. for those in the most marginal financial situations. That is why the Government must demonstrate that they will Those homes were built in a way that enabled Warm go out of their way to eliminate fuel poverty, especially Front to get at them quickly to insulate cavity walls and in rural Britain, and that they will take practical steps. so on. It is important to celebrate easy, quick wins. The Otherwise, a bad situation could get worse. Government need to get plenty of those, too, in their first few months in power. I want the Government to 10.6 am build on Warm Front, not sweep it away thinking it has Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): I am very pleased to done damage—it has not. take part in the debate and I congratulate the hon. There are great opportunities in rural communities—to Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) on obtaining build on something that the hon. Member for Ynys it. This is an important issue. I was interested in the Môn said—for the provision of renewable energy resources, concept of building a new Jerusalem in Suffolk Coastal. 79WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 80WH

[Mr Mike Weir] In Scotland, the situation may be slightly worse because of geography and the lack of a grid in the highland and I have raised the issue of fuel poverty many times in islands. The latest Scottish house conditions survey Parliament and the stock answer that I normally get states: from Ministers about off-grid gas is that they are taking “Households that use electricity, oil or other fuel types (such as action to ensure the extension of the gas grid. However, coal or peat) are around twice as likely as those who use gas to in reality, many of my constituents will never have access experience fuel poverty. Also, those who use... ‘other fuel types’ to the gas grid. It will never go to the glens of Angus, or (not gas or electricity) are more than twice as likely to experience to many other parts of rural Scotland, especially the extreme fuel poverty than gas users”. islands, however much it is extended. There is no option I understand that the number of off-grid customers in for those constituents but to rely on liquefied petroleum fuel poverty in Scotland is around 116,000—about 47% of gas, home fuel gas or some other alternative fuel. It has all who are off-grid. been estimated that some 4.3 million consumers—mostly, There are other problems than price. For example, in but importantly, not exclusively in rural areas—are not many areas customers have to make an up-front payment on the gas network. In some areas, although the gas to get a supply—and many suppliers demand a minimum network is technically available, the cost of connection supply quantity. That can be a substantial sum, and to it is prohibitive and people cannot do it. those on low incomes cannot afford to pay up front. Consumers who are off the gas network face particular That causes another problem—people may be forced to problems. A typical gas bill is now rising to around £1,000 go without as a result. a year, but it has been estimated that those who are off-grid Those who use gas or electricity will have pipes and face bills of about £1,700 a year. That is a significant so on coming to them, but those who use some of the difference. I refer hon. Members to the table in the alternative fuels find in bad weather that it is difficult to report on fuel poverty produced just before the general get a supply. It is interesting to note that in the recent election by the Select Committee on Energy and Climate harsh weather the Department for Transport had to Change. It relates only to England, but it shows the allow a derogation from the driving hours regulations extent of the problem of cost between different fuel sources. to enable deliveries to be made in many parts of Scotland and northern England. However, this is a long-running Sir Robert Smith: Does the hon. Gentleman think issue. that the differential could become a more serious problem? At the conclusion of consideration in Committee of Given the changing nature of the world market for natural the Energy Act 2008, the Energy Minister, the former gas, with shale gas and liquefied natural gas potentially Member for Stafford, arranged a meeting of representatives bringing the price down in Europe, and if we ensure of the various bodies concerned with the matter. There that the market works and those on the gas main get the seemed to be a willingness to consider things, but frankly benefit of a lower gas price feeding through, it will be the problem lies in difficulties caused by the nature of all the more important to tackle the situation for people the market, which has already been touched on. That who do not have mains gas, because fuels such as oil market is very different from that for domestic gas and and coal are not necessarily following the market down. electricity, and we need to find ways around the problem Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent because those consumers have fallen through the cracks. point, but there are other pressures, not least climate The domestic electricity and gas market is dominated change, against the extension of the use of gas. The by the six big energy companies, and it is easy to get Government are only now considering the decarbonisation social tariffs from them. The market for other fuels is of the gas supply and generation from gas. Many issues much more diffuse and difficult to regulate. However, in arise in connection with that. many areas I would question whether there is real There are many excellent schemes to help with insulation competition, as there is effectively only one supplier. and energy efficiency, and many homes in rural areas With recent amalgamations in Scotland, the situation is are hard to treat, which exacerbates the situation. The getting worse. We need radical solutions to tackle the Select Committee report noted that Ministers in the problem. previous Government said that they were very enthusiastic The Minister may remember that, during consideration about innovative technologies to tackle the problem, in Committee of the Energy Act 2010, I suggested how but we expressed disappointment at the slow pace of the matter might be dealt with. Section 10 of the Act implementation. I do not think that the Government allows the Secretary of State to introduce a reconciliation have yet responded to that report, and it will be interesting mechanism, such that if one company had more fuel-poor to hear what the new Minister has to say. customers than the others, it would not be particularly As has been mentioned, people who are off the grid badly hit. The burden would be spread among all do not have the same access to the social tariffs as mains companies and, as far as possible, each would meet an gas customers. I accept to some extent that they have equitable amount of the cost of meeting their obligations access to electricity tariffs, but many off-grid consumers under the social tariff. use home fuel oil or LPG as the main fuel for heating That principle is a good one, and it could be extended their homes and water, and that is likely to be the major to cover all fuel suppliers, allowing a general sharing of part of their energy spending. They do not get the full the cost of meeting the obligation to help the fuel poor. benefit that others do for those things. Because of the difficulties in that particular market, it The Department’s annual report on fuel poverty statistics would not be easy to introduce individual social tariffs, for 2009 states: but a general reconciliation mechanism would bring “The highest proportion of fuel poverty is amongst households suppliers within the ambit of the scheme. Allowing the without gas, where nearly 23 per cent of households are fuel poor, overall cost to be shared between all the energy suppliers compared to around 17 per cent of both standard credit and would enable us to make progress and extend the social pre-payment meter customers.” tariff concept to that disadvantaged group. 81WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 82WH

That is a radical way to deal with the problem. for the previous autumn and the summer, to the end of Otherwise, it will always be filed under the “too difficult” July. We will have those figures at the end of the month, heading and nothing will be done. Such a mechanism and I expect that we will be in for a further shock. would ensure that the cost were shared more widely—as However, the figures for 2008-09 were themselves shocking, the benefits would be. It would ensure that all energy being the highest for a decade. suppliers could operate equivalent social tariffs for all It is an interesting phenomenon that the further their customers, whether they used electricity, gas or south or west one is in Europe, the higher the excess— other forms of fuel. In what the hon. Member for between 5% and 30%—but we have a particular problem Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) said are troubled in this country. A study in the British Medical Journal times, Ministers might be attracted by the fact that it found that a prime reason was the inadequacy of housing; would have a revenue-neutral approach for the Treasury. it considered whether improving housing and heating It would not impose a greater burden on the taxpayer, would protect vulnerable people. Of course there were but I can already hear the howls of protest from the many other reasons, but I hope that the Minister will major energy companies. However, it would deal with consider why that problem is crucial. what has become a most intractable problem. As was suggested by the hon. Member for West Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith), the What the hon. Lady says about the inadequacy of problem will get worse. Whether we like it or not, the housing stock is important. Does she agree that in many price of fuel will continue to rise as we try to move to a regions of the UK the problem is not with housing low-carbon economy. We will effectively be subsidising associations or housing authorities, but with the private various renewables and possibly—and unfortunately— sector? Landlords are not always assertive in establishing nuclear power, which will have an impact on all electricity whatever Warm Front schemes are available to provide bills. I ask the Minister to consider the suggestion. better heated homes for the private-sector tenants. In another aside—I realise that this is strictly not Dr Wollaston: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that within the Minister’s brief—the Select Committee report comment. Unfortunately, the BMJ study did not comment suggested that we should consider how the winter fuel on that aspect, but it is an interesting point. payment is made. It is paid in the winter, the most In the south-west, 11.7% of households, or 259,000 expensive quarter. For many off-grid customers, winter people, live in fuel poverty,. It is a serious problem, and is not the best time to be given that money. If they were many Members have spoken about why that is the case to receive it earlier in the year, they could buy oil or in rural areas. Hard-to-treat housing stock with solid other fuels in bulk when they were cheaper. That would walls are a particular problem. The hon. Member for allow them to stockpile for the winter. Staggering the Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) spoke strongly payment for off-grid customers would allow them to about rural households being disadvantaged because take advantage of cheaper prices. Again, importantly, it fuel costs for transport are so high. There is an inadequate would be revenue-neutral for the Treasury. bus service, which means that people have to travel I am trying to be helpful to the Minister by not quite long distances by car, thus putting them at a simply calling for more spending; I am calling for us to double disadvantage. Moreover, they are hit again by consider things in a new way and to look at more the fact that their housing costs are high. In my constituency, radical solutions. If we do not, we shall continue to file we have some of the lowest wages in Britain, so we are the problem under the heading “too difficult”and nothing disadvantaged on all fronts. I hope that the Minister will happen to help those people. That would be a will address those points. wasted opportunity, and fuel poverty would continue to increase in rural areas throughout the United Kingdom. 10.19 am Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): It is pleasure Several hon. Members rose— to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. In the short time available to me, I will emphasise some of the Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. Before I call the points that have been made. First, let me pay tribute to next speaker, I should say that it would be really helpful the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for if Members limited themselves to eight minutes. introducing the debate. The hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) introduced a salutary note by speaking about why we are here. By stressing the need to avoid 10.16 am those winter deaths, she summed up the importance of Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): I congratulate this debate better than I can. my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) The 147 villages and hamlets across Ceredigion are on securing the debate. Many hon. Members have suggested subject to the monopolistic practices of the energy solutions to the problem, but I want to emphasise a suppliers. In too many of our communities, there is particular reason why the Minister and the House should simply no choice. Across Wales as a whole, 8% of all be concerned. It is the excess of winter deaths. The fact households are off the mains gas network. The Competition is that 36,700 more people died in the winter of 2008-09 Commission has examined the issues surrounding liquefied than expected. Even more worrying is the fact that, of petroleum gas, but we need a wholesale review into the the most vulnerable—those aged 75 and over—29,400 entire energy market, as it is clear that there are some more died. very real problems. We do not have figures for excess winter deaths last I am glad that we are debating rural areas so early on year, which is unfortunate as it was a very cold winter. in the Session. Rural constituencies face a package of The figures are calculated by taking the number of issues, including an ageing population, the lack of transport, deaths over the winter and comparing them with figures and an ageing housing stock, which are hard to remedy. 83WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 84WH

Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar Interim recommendations from the CRC report include (SNP): The hon. Gentleman mentioned the package of updating data to improve its scope and definitions so issues that face us. Some 53% of people in my constituency that we have a clearer view of where the problems lie; of Na h-Eileanan an Iar are in fuel poverty, which is the improving data sharing; and, critically, learning from highest proportion in Scotland and probably the UK. best-practice examples. As my friend, the hon. Member Heating and transport are very expensive, which is why for Ynys Môn, said, the coalition Government need to during the debate on the Finance Bill yesterday, some prioritise certain pilot areas. hon. Members might have heard me arguing for a rural Although it seems hard to believe now, but we had a fuel derogation. The issue today is about the winter fuel particularly cold winter last year and cold weather payments. My hon. Friend the Member for Angus payments were of great use to my constituents. However, (Mr Weir) made a good point about that, and I noticed I worry that the need for seven consecutive days of the Minister taking a note about the issue of earlier temperatures below zero may have distorted the payments. payments. When making such payments, wind-chill factors Despite experiencing very similar weather, towns and as well as fuel poverty should be taken into account. villages in the northern part of Ceredigion received Including wind chill would make a difference to my three triggers while in the south just one trigger has constituents. been reached. Will the Minister look into that—again, that relates to the point made by the hon. Member for Mr Williams: I am happy to endorse that point. Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil)—and say whether Although I represent a coastal constituency and live on he is confident that the level of cold weather payments a cliff top, my experience cannot be compared with that received truly reflects the problems people are experiencing of the hon. Gentleman or of his constituents, so I on the ground? commend his proposal to the Minister. I concur with Moreover, there are many people who were eligible what has been said about the differential between retail for cold weather payments but who missed out on them and wholesale unit prices, and the lack of social tariffs. all together because of a failure to claim pension credit—the We are all aware that the Government have fewer resources most recent figures show that between 1.1 million and to offer, but in commending what the hon. Member for 1.7 million eligible pensioners are not claiming pension Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said about some of the credit. I will stop now, but there is much more to be schemes that have been pursued in Wales, I suggest said. The Chamber is aware of the enormity of the that the Minister consult widely with the devolved problem. It is good to see not just the Celtic nations but Administrations to ensure that where there is good all the rural parts of this country represented in the practice in England-only schemes, the Assembly debate. The Minister has a huge job on his hands and Government can follow suit in a swift manner. After the we look forward to hear what he will say in a few announcement of the boiler scrappage scheme in England, moments’ time. a somewhat limited substandard scheme was launched in Wales very late in the day. In fact, the scheme was Several hon. Members rose— announced in April, when replacing boilers is perhaps the last thing on people’s minds. Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. Let me say to hon. Members that I intend to start the winding-up Albert Owen: In defence of the Welsh Assembly speeches no later than 10.40 am. Government, they tried to amend the scheme so that 10.26 am the elderly and the vulnerable could apply for it. I thought that what was why we were here today—to Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): It is protect the most vulnerable against fuel poverty. I thought a great privilege to take part in this important debate. I that it was an excellent idea to limit the scheme to senior congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal citizens and vulnerable people. (Dr Coffey) on securing it and I warmly welcome her to the gang. I am sure that her contributions will always be Mr Williams: I welcome that aspect, but I question its valued. Without prejudging the Minister’s response, timing, and that was the point I was trying to make. which will be very helpful, let me say that this is an issue Last December, a consultation on fuel poverty in to which we will return from time to time. rural areas was initiated by the Commission for Rural I shall concentrate on competition issues because Communities—I do not know what my English colleagues they are clearly the responsibility of the Minister and would say, but some of us regret the loss of that his colleagues at the Department for Business, Innovation commission because it has been an independent voice and Skills. When I was elected in 2001, I contacted the offering strong messages for those of us elsewhere. Its Office of Fair Trading and the Competition Commission interim report offered some key points to consider. because there were some uncompetitive practices in the Some 50% of the UK’s carbon emissions from housing LPG market. I built on the work of my predecessor, come from hard-to-treat homes—off-gas, solid and non- Lord Livsey, who was very active in the matter. We were traditional wall construction, high-rise or properties surprised when, in the end, the Competition Commission without a fillable loft or cavity. That is a huge proportion decided to take up the issue, because there was huge of the households that many of use represent. As we resistance from LPG suppliers. have heard, many of those hard-to-treat homes are in Some of those uncompetitive practices were quite rural areas, and there is a clear need to take action to clear. There were issues over the different types of reduce emissions, tackle climate change, and reduce connections and appliances and whether ownership of bills. In 2005, the figures got worse. Some 14.6% of the bulk tank could be transferred from one company households in villages and hamlets were living in fuel to another. Some regulations have been introduced to poverty compared with a national average of 7%. That ensure that there is more competition in the marketplace. is the background to the huge challenge facing the In fact, Calor Gas is to hold a reception in this place Minister. tonight. 85WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 86WH

Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): On a related point, we are all concerned about the Could we not do more to promote local group buying future of public houses in rural areas, yet it is not clear schemes to balance the uncompetitive market and get to me whether the regulations apply to small businesses, better pricing? such as public houses, as well as to residential properties. Perhaps that is another issue that the Minister might Roger Williams: The hon. Gentleman anticipates a enquire about. point that I was about to make. Let me repeat though I turn quickly to what I think is a solution to some of that a reception will be hosted tonight by Calor Gas, the fuel poverty issues. The solution is to take mains gas which is one of the major LPG suppliers. The Minister not to individual isolated properties but to communities may like to go along—he may even be speaking at that do not yet have that facility. I am thinking in it—and make some of the points that he has heard particular of communities such as the former mining during this debate. community in Abercrave in my constituency. One can One of the key issues about fuel poverty, which has understand why there was no huge impetus to connect already been referred to by my hon. Friend the Member communities such as Abercrave to mains gas, because for Ceredigion (Mr Williams), is the opportunity to buy so many people were in coal mining families and received in bulk. I visited some old-age pensioners’ bungalows free coal as part of the miners’ terms and conditions; owned by Powys county council in a little village called indeed, miners’ widows, if they survived, received free Garth, where pensioners switched off their LPG heating coal too. Of course, very few people receive free coal in the middle of winter and consequently had no heating now, and they are living in fuel poverty because they in their houses at all, because they just could not afford have to use either heating oil, which we have talked it. Nobody was responsible for ordering the LPG and about, or LPG. the local authority—the pensioners’ landlord at the That solution—connecting such communities to mains time—was taking no interest at all in the pricing mechanism gas—is very expensive and I am not in any way belittling for the tenants, and the tenants themselves were not the cost. But it is a long-term solution and not a sufficiently empowered to take hold of the situation. I short-term fix. Are there any facilities that could be contrast that with what happened in another village, brought into play to ensure that such communities Llanspyddid, where members of the community got enjoy the facility of mains gas? together and negotiated to buy in bulk for a little estate, In another village in my constituency, Llangynidr, the so they got a good reduction in price. problem is that the mains gas pipeline runs on the other However, the point that I want to make to the Minister side of the River Usk from the village. Making the is that many LPG users do not know their rights and pipeline cross the river would be the main cost involved powers under the new regulations. One of the things in ensuring that Llangynidr receives a mains gas supply. that the Government could do, which would not cost a Those are some of the issues that I want to put to the lot of money, is to publicise the new powers and Minister, particularly the points about competition and opportunities that exist under the new regulations. how we can ensure that the regulations, which are I bring it to the attention of the House that although already in place and doing a good thing for LPG users, there is a freer regulatory system in the LPG market, can be fine-tuned, so that everybody enjoys the benefits some suppliers still want customers to enter two-year that only a few people are enjoying at the moment. contracts, or even longer contracts in some places. That may be within the letter of the regulations, but I am not Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): I thank all hon. Members sure that it is within their spirit. for their co-operation in getting the timing right, so we A number of people on the lowest incomes, particularly have time for the winding-up speeches. I think that the retired people, live in park homes. The best one could two Front Benchers have about 12 minutes each. say about the position regarding competition for the supply of LPG to park homes is that it is unclear. I 10.35 am raised the issue in the all-party group on park homes the other evening. Representatives both of the owners Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) of park homes and of the estates where park homes are (Lab): May I begin, Mr Betts, by saying that it is a located confirmed that the position on competition is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first unclear. However, it is a difficult issue so given the short time? time available to me in this debate, I would be better off I congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal writing to the Minister about it. (Dr Coffey) on securing this debate. I listened to her Another issue is that the new free market applies only maiden speech in the Chamber with great interest and I to bulk LPG; it does not apply to small cylinders of concluded that, although it was highly unlikely that we LPG. Some of the poorest people in our communities would agree politically, she would undoubtedly serve use small cylinders of LPG. Buying those cylinders is her constituents well. Indeed, we now know those even more expensive than buying LPG in bulk, which constituents as the people of the new Jerusalem. I also itself is much more expensive than mains gas. Many of concluded that she was likely to be a formidable advocate the poorest people actually use mobile heaters, bringing for them, and frankly this place can never have enough them into their bedrooms late at night when they go to formidable women. bed; they put them on in the morning in the bedroom This debate is one of great importance. More than and then take them into the kitchen when they are one in four households in rural areas are in fuel poverty. making their breakfast. They take the heaters round the In sparsely inhabited English communities, every second house. However, those LPG cylinders are not covered at home has an energy efficiency rating of less than 30, all by the regulations, which is an issue the Minister which amounts to a significant health risk. Fuel poverty might want to familiarise himself with. is a knotty and difficult problem with which the Labour 87WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 88WH

[Emily Thornberry] of making grants available to the rural poor who cannot be connected to the grid, so they can install microgeneration Government struggled. Although we made progress, projects, such as ground source heat pumps? Will the much more needs to be done. Our concern is that the Government consider the findings of the Warm Front emerging political philosophy of the coalition Government pilots on air source heat pumps in areas off the gas may prove to be a significant handicap—that might be network for occupants in fuel poverty? putting it mildly. I encourage the Government to be proactive and The coalition agreement brags about the way in which confident; if we take action, we can get results. Labour the two governing parties were brought together by a achievements on fuel poverty include Warm Front assisting shared ideology which is antithetical to Government over 2 million households since 2000, which National intervention. It says that they Energy Action described as “an extremely successful “share a conviction that the days of big government are over”. programme”. Despite early problems with take-up of However, there are times when Government leadership the scheme, improvements were made and the number is necessary and there are times when the market will of grants increased in 2005-08. I listened with interest not solve a problem. Climate change, for example, is, in to the criticisms of the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal itself, the ultimate failure of the market economy. There of Warm Front, but saying that rural communities such are times when we need to intervene. Furthermore, the as hers lose out on schemes over and over again is effectiveness of Government intervention must be measured overstating the case. In the past five years, Warm Front and quantified, so that we can account to the public for has helped 2,000 households in her constituency. My the spending of their money. fifth question is: can the Minister give his assurance We have heard from the Secretary of State for Energy that Warm Front will be retained? and Climate Change that he did not have any Government Under the carbon emissions reduction target, major targets for the creation of green jobs and that he did not energy suppliers had an obligation to direct at least want to borrow our targets, for fear of seeming to copy 40% of carbon savings to priority group households, so, the Soviet Union’s Gosplan. However, that judgment is my sixth question is whether the super-priority group of wrong. I urge the ministerial team to reconsider their 15%, which was announced on 30 June, in addition to attitude to targets. In relation to fuel poverty, my first the 40% priority group can be contained within it. question to the Minister is this: will the coalition keep Seventhly, what will the Minister do to ensure that the our 2016 fuel poverty target? If it will not do so, how carbon emissions reduction target takes account of the many people do the Government intend to lift out of greater difficulty and cost of insulation in rural areas? fuel poverty by any of their schemes, in either rural or In the Energy Act 2010, Labour put a statutory obligation urban areas? on energy suppliers to offer social tariffs to those in fuel Throughout my contribution, I will put a number of poverty. Under Labour, Ofgem provided incentives for questions to the Minister. I asked some of them in a gas networks to connect deprived communities. Households debate last week and during the somewhat rushed wind-ups, assisted under the scheme qualified as being within the the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate 20% identified in the index of multiple deprivation. Change, the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), Albert Owen: My hon. Friend talks about incentives overlooked many of them; I am sure that he did so for gas networks to be extended and for the grid distributors unintentionally. Therefore I thought that it might be to take the lead, but is it not the case that we need an helpful if I numbered my questions today, for ease of agency, a local authority or even a community group to reference. do so? Does she agree that we should look at it in that My second question relates to access to the grid and way? We need to ensure that we have local champions in fuel poverty. The number of off-gas properties is much rural areas because, with the greatest of respect, Ofgem higher in rural areas than in urban areas. Those properties in central London does not understand small rural are dependent on solid fuels, heating oil and liquefied communities. Agencies must work with local government natural gas, but the prices of those fuels are higher and at a local level. they fluctuate more than gas prices. Households that are off the gas network face typical energy bills of Emily Thornberry: That is right, and, in fact, many of £1,700 per annum as opposed to £1,000 per annum for the characteristics to which my hon. Friend refers are households on mains gas. What steps will the Government part of the community energy saving programme, to take to increase the number of homes on the gas grid? which I will return in a moment. Another problem is that rural areas have lower average In the Suffolk Coastal constituency, 29,960 people wage levels than urban areas, and the take-up of receive winter fuel payments. Eighthly, given the fact Government assistance has been more difficult in rural that payments have benefited millions of people, will areas. It costs more for contractors to install energy the Minister guarantee that they will continue in the age efficiency measures in rural homes, and there is evidence of austerity? The Government recently announced the that consumers in rural areas are less aware than consumers dissolution of the Commission for Rural Communities, in urban areas of the availability of financial support which I agree is unfortunate, as many hon. Members exists, so my third question is: how does the Minister have said, particularly given that it did a great deal of intend to tackle that problem, especially in the light of the analysis on rural fuel poverty that led to significant recent budget cuts to the Energy Saving Trust? changes in energy efficiency policy to allow for better Another problem, as we heard from many contributors, targeting of fuel-poor rural households. Everyone knows is that there are fewer cavity walls in rural areas, and that Labour did not eliminate fuel poverty and that solid walls are harder to heat and more expensive to great challenges remain. Nevertheless, without Government insulate. My fourth question is: what consideration measures, there would have been 400,000 to 800,000 have the Government given to the arguments in favour more fuel poor households in England in 2008. 89WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 90WH

Ninthly, how are the pay-as-you-save pilots established poverty go beyond party boundaries. Although we come under the previous Government going? Will they run from different sides of the political argument, and may their course and inform the Government’s plans or not? have different priorities or apply different principles to Is the green deal just our pay-as-you-save scheme with a problems that lead to different solutions, there is much different name, as commentators have said? Tenthly, more common ground on this issue than is often the will the Minister clear up the confusion over whether case. I hope to have an open-door policy and will be there will be any form of Government subsidy for the open to new ideas from all parties. green deal? Will it impose any cost on the public purse? We have a radical programme on energy efficiency We have had contradictory statements from the Minister and we approach it with new vigour and ideas. I appreciate of State, Department for Communities and Local that the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury Government, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge (Emily Thornberry) is new to her job as well and Wells (Greg Clark), and the Minister of State, Department mustard keen to defend the record of the Labour of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Government, but we all have to wake up and smell the Wealden, this year. Eleventhly, will the amount available coffee. She asked if the Government would keep the per household be £6,500 or up to £6,500? Twelfthly, will 2016 target. Keeping targets is not difficult at all, but it be more for harder-to-heat homes? In the debate last meeting them is tough. Her Government, whom she week, the Minister in the Chamber today told us, with defends, were reversing at speed on fuel poverty despite characteristic enthusiasm, about the potential deal with their best efforts. Over 4 million more people—more companies such as Tesco, B&Q and Marks & Spencer like 5 million more—are in fuel poverty than in 2004. on the green deal. What will companies get out of this? That was question 13. How confident is he that the Despite good schemes—the hon. Lady rattled off a private sector will see it as a good proposition? number of them—the best efforts of Ministers and a Most important is my 14th question: how will the great deal of public spending, we are nowhere close to Minister ensure that all households that need to improve meeting the fuel poverty targets. We have to do some big their energy efficiency take advantage of the scheme? thinking, ask ourselves some serious questions and How will the poorest take advantage of it, and how will redeploy our resources more effectively to deliver for it work for those on low incomes and those with poor the fuel-poor, particularly for the rural fuel-poor. credit ratings? If poorer households do not take up the My hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal scheme, does he agree that it has failed? On 24 June, the addressed clearly what everyone in the Chamber feels: Minister’s new boss, the Secretary of State, said at the the rural fuel-poor get overlooked and are part of a UK energy summit organised by The Economist: forgotten population. Many of the schemes introduced “Some people—such as the fuel-poor, and those in hard-to-heat under the previous Government have treated people’s homes…—will need extra help because energy savings alone will homes in urban areas. However, the rural fuel-poor not be enough. We intend to provide that help by refocusing the often get a worse deal, particularly those who are off obligations on energy companies. Local authorities could also the gas network, because there is a lack of social tariffs join with energy companies to reach those who live in houses that for those who are off the grid. That issue has been a need it most. Insulation measures are often cheaper if implemented a street at a time. And we are planning to strengthen the Government’s reoccurring theme of the debate. My hon. Friend is powers to target energy insulation measures on the highest priority right to be concerned that metropolitan-centric, top-down cases.” schemes that are not embedded in their local communities Does that mean that CESP is saved? Perhaps the Minister do not always deliver. will give it another name; I always thought that it It is difficult to find many of the rural poor. The hon. sounded more like something that needed a strong dose Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) of antibiotics, but it is a good scheme and the Government spoke well and reminded us that it is often more difficult should look at it carefully. Will it continue? to find and treat fuel-poor homes that are in, or surrounded At the beginning of my speech, I referred to the by, areas of relative prosperity than those that are profound health problems associated with fuel poverty, concentrated in a metropolitan area. That is a challenge and those problems are urgent. If we hit another severe and it is why such homes have been harder to treat in the winter this year, there are likely to be tens of thousands past. However, it does not mean they are any less of excess deaths. The Government are under an obligation deserving of support and concern. to be proactive, and I hope that they will be. I cannot commit the Chancellor to anything, because 10.46 am doing so is way above my pay grade. However, I heard what the hon. Gentleman said about the potential for a The Minister of State, Department of Energy and green investment bank—the Green Investment Bank Climate Change (Gregory Barker): I, too, am glad to be Commission published its report last week—and I have serving under your chairmanship for the first time as a taken on board his suggestions. I encourage him to have Minister in Westminster Hall, Mr Betts. I congratulate a dialogue with Ministers to discuss such a function for my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) the GIB. I would welcome that opportunity. on her maiden Westminster Hall speech. She made a fine start in the main Chamber. The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger It has been a really terrific debate, and I have learnt a Williams) gave a very good speech. He focused on lot. It is the first time that I have listened to a fuel concerns about competition and ensuring that reforms poverty debate as a Minister, and it is striking how of competition in the market drive right across and much cumulative knowledge there is, not just in one reach target groups that have, so far, not been helped party, but on both sides of the House. In the coming sufficiently. months and years of coalition, I hope that we can be I was particularly interested in the ideas mentioned in inclusive, not only with our coalition partners, but with an intervention about supporting and enhancing local other parties, because it is clear that concerns about fuel group purchasing schemes. When I go back to the 91WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)7 JULY 2010 Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 92WH

[Gregory Barker] The hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) was right to point out that a minority of the population will always Department, I will ask my officials to consider what we be off-grid and that price is important. He made a can do in relation to that, because the measure does not crucial point about up-front payments and minimum necessarily involve a lot of spending. I will consider deliveries. I will consider his ideas on section 10 of the what we can do to try to support and encourage such Energy Act 2010. I cannot promise that we will act on schemes, because empowering communities is an aspiration them, but we will look at the matter with fresh eyes, that is shared right across the coalition. If one wants to because we are interested in radical steps forward and refer to an ideology, it would not be any of those listed new thinking. As I said, we cannot go on as we are. by the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury. We have a big plan of our own: the green deal. It does We believe in localism, the need to empower our not involve grants, loans or mortgages and it certainly communities far more and the fact that the solutions to does not involve the very modest proposals—pilot our nation’s problems are not locked in Departments in schemes—that the previous Government introduced. Whitehall. The green deal is a bold, unprecedented scheme that I say to the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) will not involve personal debt, as the pay-as-you-save that, of course, we are committed to consultation and model of the previous Government did. best practice, not just with devolved Governments, but with local government and communities. Learning best Mr MacNeil rose— practice is not a one-way street; there is a great deal Gregory Barker: I shall not take interventions, because more that we can learn from what is successful in I am very short on time. The green deal will bring in communities. Although I am not familiar with the new capital, new finance providers, new installers and triggers for cold weather payments, I know how important local providers. A constant complaint about Warm they are. I will look into the problems he mentioned and Front and its provisions is that it has not empowered write to him. local suppliers. The green deal will mean that as long as The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) a local provider can deliver the standards, they can do spoke at length and with great expertise about the extra the work. That will even apply to a village supplier if costs suffered by particularly far-flung areas—not just they get the accreditation, which should be simple and in his constituency, but in the whole of the British Isles. easy to do. I hope that we will see many community He focused on partnership-working with devolved enterprises and community partnerships working on Governments, local authorities and communities. I assure the green deal. him that we are committed to doing that. He also The green deal is fundamentally a pay-as-you-save wanted to know what the coalition had to say about model. We accept that many of those who live in rural off-grid support and protection. The coalition agreement homes and some of the most fuel-poor cannot make the is not a manifesto; it is a relatively tight document. savings to justify the significant investment in building However, he will see that it specifically mentions the infrastructure that is needed; for example, those who need to support and protect off-grid customers. We have solid wall houses often fall into that category. That want to do a lot more. is why we intend radically to reform the supplier obligation. Albert Owen: I hope the hon. Gentleman will not We have started doing that with our carbon emissions regret offering an open-door policy to Members such as reduction target extension, where we have increased the me. He is talking about the coalition and localism, with amount that we can direct is spent on insulation; if we which I agree. However, there must be more than warm take into account DIY, it is now 80%. We have stopped words. Although I agree with the devolution of powers, the lunacy of mailing or subsidising light bulbs. The which I have fought for in referendums for many years, green deal is focused on real insulation efforts. We have we do not simply need it to happen; we need resources. increased the super-priority group—made up of pensioners, That is the important thing. Dealing with the issue is people with children and those from low-income not just about passing powers from Whitehall to Cardiff, households—from 10% to 15%, so that it is larger than and to rural areas in Wales; it is about making sure that under the Labour consultation. That is really important, the resources follow those powers. but we want to go further. Gregory Barker: I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s Mr MacNeil: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? comments, but he will also appreciate that we are in a resource-constrained environment for reasons that we Gregory Barker: I am afraid that I do not have time. do not need to rehearse here. As well as resources, We want to go further to ensure that support is another factor that empowers communities is knowledge. available. The carbon emissions reduction target will He made a good point about the need for greater raise more than £1 billion, which is much greater than transparency about wholesale and retail prices. I agree under the Warm Front programme. Potentially there is with him about that, but we also need greater transparency a significant amount of revenue, but it needs to be much about billing, tariffs and the costs of switching to a more focused. different tariff or the best tariff, or paying by direct I welcome the thoughts of all hon. Members in the debit. Those are all important points. Chamber today about how we should focus on the My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) fuel-poor. We will be considering reforming the supplier brought her medical expertise to bear when she talked obligation, so that there is no hiatus beyond the CERT about the excessive number of winter deaths. She reminded extension in 2012. There is a new deal—a green deal—and us of the shocking figures that were published last year there will be a new supplier obligation. Real, substantial and of the impact that poor housing has on not just resources will be made available for the long term, and health outcomes, but life expectancy. That helped to we are absolutely certain that we need to continue to bring the debate into sharp focus. deliver for the fuel-poor. 93WH Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) 7 JULY 2010 94WH

However, fundamentally, we cannot keep chasing the Road Networks (Harlow) fuel price and subsidising fossil fuels. We need to spend the money we have on investment in building infrastructure to make homes not only warmer, but cheaper to heat in 11 am the long term. We must reduce people’s dependency— Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): On “The Andrew whether they are on-grid or off—on gas, coal and oil. Marr Show” on Sunday 4 July, the Secretary of State I again congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for for Transport was straight and honest about the state of Suffolk Coastal on initiating the debate. I am sorry that British finances. He quite rightly said: I have not been able to answer everyone’s questions, but “We will have to prioritise aggressively, and do the things that I am sure that this is the first of many Westminster Hall most promote economic growth.” debates on this vital issue. We know that there will be fewer major road projects and that our money must be targeted more effectively, which is why I strongly support his drive to obtain value for money.He said in the same interview that improvements to the strategic road network must focus “very specifically on bottlenecks”. First and foremost, the case for an extra junction on the M11 is about eliminating the bottleneck leading in and out of Harlow. Yes, it would bring much-needed regeneration to one of the most deprived towns in the east of England, and yes, it would transform the lives of tens of thousands of miserable commuters and businesses, but fundamentally it is about economic growth, higher tax receipts and more jobs. There are five key arguments in favour of an additional junction on the M11. Harlow is uniquely disadvantaged compared with other towns. As I mentioned in Transport questions on 17 June: “Harlow has just one entrance to a motorway, whereas similar towns, such as Welwyn Garden City, have two or three and Basildon has four”.—[Official Report, 17 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 1008.] That has been a regional problem for 30 years. I noted in my maiden speech: “Inexplicably, Harlow was built with just one entrance, with most of the industrial quarter being at the opposite end. As a result, traffic in Harlow has reached gridlock, with large lorries trundling along from one end of the town to another. If Harlow is to have a viable future, a bypass is not a luxury but a necessity.”— [Official Report, 2 June 2010; Vol. 510, c. 488.] Recent improvements have not solved the fundamental problem. Harlow is set to benefit from several small transport improvements, including a repaired train station, the dualling of the A414 and the introduction of bus lanes and cycle paths. However, a town of 80,000 people is like the human body; it needs circulation to live, and when its arteries become blocked, something must relieve the pressure. The fundamental problem has been, and will always be, access to the motorways for businesses and commuters. Everyone agrees with that analysis, which is why every public sector body and major private business from the region have come together to make the case for an extra junction on the M11. The recently formed Harlow-Stansted Gateway Transportation Board includes Essex county council, Hertfordshire county council, Harlow district council, East Hertfordshire district council, Epping Forest district council, the Highways Agency, the Department for Transport, the East of England Development Agency, Harlow Renaissance, and private sector interests such as BAA and National Express. All those public sector bodies and private businesses agreed jointly in the board’s annual report that over the next few years Harlow will become “a major economic hub, close to London and at a key strategic location in the M11 growth corridor.” 95WH Road Networks (Harlow)7 JULY 2010 Road Networks (Harlow) 96WH

[Robert Halfon] There is spare employment land in Harlow, so there is both the capacity and opportunity to deliver economic The recent improvements to Harlow’s roads are welcome, growth. The town already provides significant sub-regional but they are just that: improvements. They are a sticking employment—40,000 jobs—and can increase that plaster and, sadly, will not transform Harlow’s road significantly. The town has a brave and ambitious vision network. for its future, with an upgraded town centre now being Congestion has a huge economic cost. Pollution and developed. A better road network will help to retain noise aside, economic growth in the M11 corridor is existing businesses and attract new ones. In a region clogged by congestion. The Harlow-Stansted Gateway with considerable growth pressures, Harlow can not Transportation Board’s report states: only accommodate economic growth, but welcome it. The town is a true centre of excellence for the haulage “EEDA’s recent Transport Economic Evidence Study identified that the area of the London Arc containing Harlow was the most and distribution industry, which needs quick access to congested in the region, but also the area which could see the the M11 to thrive. highest level of economic return from transport investment.” The cost of an extra junction would be very modest, The proposed extra junction would be situated in a key given the investment available from local housing developers. growth area in Harlow, with the potential for about Essex county council has already committed more than 5,000 additional homes. If the proper infrastructure is £500,000 for a detailed study of an extra junction. That not built and access to the motorway is not provided, will be spent in two stages: £130,000 in phase 1, to build congestion will become significantly worse. The latest an outline business case; and £435,000 in phase 2, to survey on traffic from the Essex Federation of Small look at more specific issues, such as where pressures Businesses showed that its members lose on average would accrue on the road network. It is right that local seven hours per week per driver to congestion. A back- people should shoulder some of the up-front costs to of-the-envelope calculation shows that, with an average reduce the burden on the British taxpayer. Councillor hourly cost of £15, that equates to £105 per driver per Norman Hume, cabinet member for highways at Essex week, or £5,460 per driver per year. When one considers county council, is clear on just how important the that there are 40,000 jobs in Harlow, one starts to scheme is locally: realise that that means a loss in economic output of “A new junction on the M11 North of Harlow is now the about £218 million a year. Hours spent in traffic jams number one transport priority for the business community of and congestion are wasted; they are a drag on the Harlow, and Essex County Council. A new junction will relieve economy. existing congestion and promote the growth and much needed regeneration of Harlow. In order to promote and justify the case For people who work overtime there is also a direct for investment, we are developing a business case through Growth financial cost, as well as the indirect cost of potential Area Funding.” output that is not achieved. The Essex Federation of Phase 1 of the study will report in autumn 2010 and Small Businesses has stated that its members phase 2 will report in early 2011. Councillor Hume and “strongly support the need for a new junction linking Harlow to the highways officers at Essex county council are absolutely the M11 as the current junction cannot cope with the traffic. A pioneering in their approach to the road network in new junction which enabled traffic to flow easily into Harlow Harlow, as are the officers at Harlow district council. would soon cover its cost just in time saved by business people Their plans are in harmony with the new Government, currently caught in traffic queues.” with value for money and economic growth at the heart An extra junction would massively boost jobs and of what they hope to achieve. Harlow district council is private sector investment. I am glad to join my hon. equally supportive. Its leader, Councillor Andrew Johnson, Friend the Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) and said in a statement that a new junction is several other hon. Friends in reminding the House that “vital to achieving the town’s regeneration and creating a prime the M11 corridor is a dynamic growth economy. All the location for business. It is fundamental to unlocking the economic evidence suggests that when the Government invest in potential of the town.” the M11 corridor, the benefits hugely outweigh the Essex county council estimates that the total cost of costs. Harlow district council’s 2009 business survey the new junction on the M11 could be as little as showed that three quarters of companies regard Harlow’s £25 million. It would be located in a key Harlow growth location as the strongest reason to invest, which is a area of up to 5,000 homes. Much of the £25 million cost solid foundation on which to build. One in two respondents could be funded through section 106 agreements, making cited Harlow’s traffic congestion as a major barrier to this an opportunity for the taxpayer to get the full business growth—in fact, it was the second highest economic benefits but pay only part of the already barrier to growth overall, after the recession. Finally, modest costs. The Essex Federation of Small Businesses the survey showed that four out of five Harlow companies has studied the cost of congestion and believes that felt that a new motorway junction would be congestion in Harlow is reducing economic output in “the single most effective mechanism to improve congestion.” the region of £218 million a year. When that is set Therefore, the private sector is highly confident that against a cost of less than £25 million, the figures speak with the right road investment in Harlow, substantial for themselves. economic and social benefits will accrue to both the I am a realist, and I accept that Ministers’ first town and the wider M11 region. The Harlow area priority must be to reduce the public debt, which early provides a strong case for investment and has many this year ballooned to £900 billion. I also accept that a clear advantages. It has an unrivalled location, which is project of this scale would normally take 10 years to why the Health Protection Agency is seeking to move to deliver. The people of Harlow do not expect miracles the town. It is close to London, Stansted Airport, overnight—they have been waiting 20 years already—but Cambridge and the ports at Harwich and Felixstowe, I believe that the case is very strong. Harlow has only all regarded by businesses as strong attributes. one motorway entrance, unlike other major towns of its 97WH Road Networks (Harlow)7 JULY 2010 Road Networks (Harlow) 98WH size. Recent road improvements have not solved the Robert Halfon: Thank you, Mr Betts, for allowing me fundamental problems. Congestion results in a huge to respond. Having a close association with the area—a economic cost to Harlow and to the M11 corridor. An constituency in the east of England—and travelling on extra junction on the M11 would boost jobs and private the M11, my hon. Friend knows better than most the sector investment massively, and the cost would be very traffic problems that we have in Harlow. I am very modest, given the available investment from local housing grateful for his support, which will be noted by the developers and sector 106 agreements. people of Harlow and all the businesses and commuters I close with the point made on Sunday by the Secretary who use the M11 on a daily basis. of State: “We will have to prioritise aggressively, and do the things that 11.14 am most promote economic growth.” The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport An extra junction on the M11 would most promote (Norman Baker): I congratulate my hon. Friend the economic growth. Yes, of course, this is about transforming Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing this the lives of tens of thousands of commuters and businesses debate on traffic and the road network in Harlow, and in Harlow. Yes, it would bring much-needed regeneration on the strong presentation of his case this morning. to my constituency, which is one of the most deprived Although only recently elected to the House, he has towns in the east of England. Fundamentally, however, already asked questions about traffic and road issues in my argument for an extra junction on the M11 is about Harlow, and I am pleased to respond to his first economic growth, higher tax receipts and more jobs. Adjournment debate on a subject that is clearly of great importance to him and his constituents. Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con) rose— It might be helpful if I explain that within the Department for Transport the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Order. Has the hon. the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), Member cleared it with the Member introducing the has responsibilities for the motorway network and I debate and the Minister that he wants to speak? have responsibilities for other roads and for general traffic issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow Brandon Lewis: I must admit that I have not cleared it has concentrated solely on the M11, which is a matter with the Minister, but I spoke earlier to my hon. Friend that would normally fall to my colleague, but I will do the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon). I am at your my best to respond to the issues he has raised. However, mercy, Mr Betts. given the title of the debate, I will also refer to other issues that relate to traffic and transport in the Harlow Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): Okay. area. Before I turn specifically to Harlow issues, I need to Brandon Lewis: Thank you, Mr Betts, I appreciate make some general points. My hon. Friend will not be that. I will ensure that in future I speak to the Minister surprised if I make them on behalf of the Department—the as well. point he made himself. In particular, I must make it clear at the outset that the overriding need the coalition Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): I appreciate that the Government have identified is to tackle the national hon. Member is new to the House, so that is fine. deficit. That means that the decisions we take and the speed with which we are able to implement transport Brandon Lewis: I simply want to support my hon. improvements will need to be determined in the context Friend’s statement. I represent Great Yarmouth, and of the comprehensive spending review. The Department although the M11 is not there, or in Norfolk, it is the for Transport is playing a full part in that spending closest motorway to my constituency. It is a vital part of review, which will report in the autumn. the artery joining the A11 and the A47 that runs through We have already announced a range of measures to our outer harbour and to Norwich airport, so it is aimed at delivering reductions in spending. On 24 May hugely important to the economic development and the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Chief Secretary growth of Great Yarmouth, which has pockets of high to the Treasury gave details of £6.2 billion of savings in deprivation. Anything that we can do to alleviate the Government spending in 2010-11, and the Department traffic problems along that artery, which this junction for Transport is contributing by finding savings of could—and clearly will—do, is of benefit to Great £683 million this year. That has meant taking difficult Yarmouth. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is decisions on funding, and deferring decisions on some important for Harlow, but also for the wider business transport schemes until after the outcome of the spending community throughout East Anglia and the eastern review. On 10 June, the Department for Communities region. and Local Government published further details about local government savings, including £309 million in Robert Halfon: Should I respond? local transport funding. The Department and I understand that those reductions Mr Clive Betts (in the Chair): In terms of procedure, and deferrals are difficult for many places. Through normally the hon. Member initiating the debate would reductions in ring-fencing, we have maximised the flexibility speak, then the Minister would respond. The hon. for local authorities to reshape their budgets according Member would not come back. It would have helped if to local priorities, and to identify where efficiencies can the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis) be found. There is also an opportunity to rethink transport had intervened beforehand, but I will allow a brief plans and priorities, to ensure that proposals are response. environmentally as well as financially sustainable. However, 99WH Road Networks (Harlow)7 JULY 2010 Road Networks (Harlow) 100WH

[Norman Baker] meet the regional spatial strategy—RSS—housing targets. With the revocation of the RSS—I am sure my hon. given the current financial constraints, it is essential to Friend will welcome the increased move towards ensure that any new infrastructure is affordable and devolution—there will no longer be a regional policy offers value for money. basis for that level of development. Obviously, we have Turning to Harlow-specific matters, it is first worth devolution coming forward in the decentralisation and reflecting on the history of Harlow’s development, as localism Bill that the Department for Communities and therein lie some of the answers as to why Harlow, a new Local Government will introduce and in the enterprise town, suffers the level of congestion experienced by my boards it proposes. We will see what comes from those hon. Friend’s constituents. When Sir Frederick Gibberd local economic partnerships. drew up the original master plan for Harlow, he did so The M11 junction feasibility study will consider the with the expectation that a new motorway would be transport needs of future development within Harlow’s built to the west and north of the urban area. He boundaries but, ultimately, it will be for Harlow, together therefore positioned the town’s industrial areas and with partner authorities, to agree on how best to develop town centre where they would have easy access to the beyond that. Such discussions will be based on what new motorway, probably with multiple access points. local communities want, and my Department will try to However, the M11 was subsequently built to the east, respond as positively as it can. giving rise to some of the problems that are now being experienced. Access to the town was via junction 7 and I acknowledge that congestion in Harlow is of particular the A414 from the south. As a result, as my hon. Friend importance locally. I am pleased that rapid progress is knows only too well, traffic in and out of Harlow has to being made by Essex county council to dual the A414 traverse a series of mainly single-lane carriageways to carriageway between junction 7 of the M11 and the reach key destinations such as the town centre and areas Southern Way junction. When that work is completed of employment. Frequent congestion is the result, and in early 2011, the scheme will significantly alleviate the the Department acknowledges that. I fully understand bottleneck. that congestion is seen as a barrier to achieving the However, I make it clear on behalf of the Department town’s regeneration and economic growth ambitions. that extra road capacity is not the only answer to My hon. Friend will be aware that, for some time, tackling congestion. Nor, indeed, depending on the many people have seen the solution as the provision of a circumstances, is it necessarily the best answer. In March, new junction—7A—on the M11 to the north of Harlow, Essex county council successfully completed the First along with realigning and extending the A414 to provide Avenue multi-modal corridor, which provides fast bus a northern bypass to Harlow. I am advised by officials access from the New Hall development to the town that the cost of the full scheme is estimated as in excess centre. It includes a shared cycleway and provision of of £250 million. However, the feasibility of such a real time information, and is an example of the kind of proposal has yet to be established. sustainable transport solution that the Government are I am aware that, on behalf of the Harlow-Stansted keen to bring forward. Obviously, if people can be Gateway Transportation Board, Essex county council is persuaded to transfer from cars to other modes of currently undertaking a feasibility study—to which my transport, it will free up existing road capacity for hon. Friend referred—of the options for a reduced motorists who are still on the network. scheme to include a new motorway junction and connection I understand that the feasibility of other ideas for to the existing local road network to the north-east of congestion-relieving projects has been investigated locally, the town. The study will give an indication of whether including the potential reopening of the Central line that is a potential solution. There may of course be from Epping to Ongar and an extension to Harlow. I effective, lower-cost solutions that emerge from that or shall be interested to see whether that washes its face other work that the county council or others undertake economically. locally, and I will follow developments closely, as will my colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Transport. We made clear in the coalition agreement our commitment to a modern, low-carbon transport Robert Halfon: I thank the Minister for what he has infrastructure as an essential element of a dynamic and said so far. I want to make it clear that, as he acknowledged, entrepreneurial economy. An effective and efficient low- I am just asking for the extra junction on the M11, carbon transport infrastructure can help to support because I recognise the huge cost of something that economic development and, at the same time, help to would happen in the distant future. I am asking just for tackle climate change and, indeed, congestion on the that, because it is much better value for money for the road network. Securing that objective in our current taxpayer. economic climate is, of course, a challenge, but I am confident that we can rise to it and foster a transport Norman Baker: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. As system that works for the economy, the environment we will undoubtedly have less money in the future, we and local communities. have to be much more careful about how we spend it, The Government are committed to making the best and to ensure that rigorous cost-benefit is applied to use of the rail network as part of their commitment to any scheme. I suggest that the cheaper a scheme comes creating a low-carbon economy and improving the travelling in, the more likely it is to proceed. experience for passengers. I am pleased to note that It is also worth pointing out that the context has National Express East Anglia’s refurbishment of Harlow changed, given that some of the justification for the Town station is near completion. That work was funded northern bypass came from the significant northern by £200,000 from my Department, matched by £200,000 expansion of Harlow that would have been needed to from Essex county council. In addition, the delivery of 101WH Road Networks (Harlow)7 JULY 2010 Road Networks (Harlow) 102WH new rolling stock will allow longer and more frequent funding from other than public sector sources. My hon. trains to run on services for Harlow Town and Harlow Friend was right to refer to section 106 agreements, Mill. which could indeed provide sources of funding for My hon. Friend will be aware that £8 million was transport infrastructure improvements. Frankly, at this earmarked for the Harlow public transport scheme in stage, it is clear that more money secured from the the regional funding allocation submission made to the private sector will not only improve the appraisal outcome Government in February 2009. Essex county council for individual schemes but also make it less likely that began developing proposals, but the matter is now on they are lost in the mix. In the current financial climate, hold while the comprehensive spending review takes I cannot offer assurance about the future time scale for place. I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that the schemes that have been identified, but reviewing the current review provides communities and the Government feasibility of options should mean that Harlow is well with an opportunity for wider reflection on possible placed to benefit from available investment when the alternative options for tackling congestion and addressing current financial position eases. other transport issues, and on how we assess the feasibility In conclusion, it is clear that we face a challenging of transport schemes big and small. situation. Tough decisions have already been necessary The coalition agreement includes a commitment to to tackle the UK’s budget deficit, which the Government make the transport sector greener and more sustainable, have identified as their most urgent priority, and transport including reforming how decisions are made on prioritising must play a full part in the process, as my hon. Friend transport projects so that the benefits of low-carbon recognises. Only when the Government’s spending review proposals are fully recognised. That work is ongoing in has been concluded will the Department be in a position parallel with the spending review, and it is clear that the to identify what investment can be made. In a period decisions taken after the spending review is completed when we face tight financial restraints, it is essential that will be influenced by work on the appraisal of transport we take a step back to consider what options are available, schemes. and which schemes should be prioritised. By doing that, we will place ourselves in a strong position to make best The coalition agreement refers to making the transport use of the funds available, and to establish a sound base sector greener. Building on that policy framework and for the future development of a transport system that on the success of the first round of the green bus fund, can contribute to a low-carbon economy. on Monday I announced a second round of the fund worth £15 million, which will support the procurement As I said, additional road capacity may not be the of another 150 low-carbon buses in England. All transport only answer to congestion. There are real opportunities authorities, including Essex county council, are encouraged for communities to reassess whether they can deal with to submit a bid. Perhaps my hon. Friend will take that congestion in their locality in ways that contribute to point back to the council, which may be able to get other ambitions such as reducing greenhouse gas emissions, some money for green buses for the area. improving the environment and encouraging healthier lifestyles. My hon. Friend has put on the record his The first round of the fund will support the 24 strong support for junction improvements to the M11. successful winners in purchasing about 350 new low-carbon His Adjournment debate is timely, in that this is a buses, the first of which will be in operation from this period of reflection and reconsideration for the Department summer. Low-carbon buses use at least 30% less fuel for Transport as to how it wants to proceed. I will than standard diesel buses with the same passenger ensure that his remarks are drawn to the attention of capacity and emit around one third less greenhouse gas the Secretary of State and my colleague the Under-Secretary emissions, yet they currently account for only 0.2% of of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Hemel the buses on the road in England. Hempstead, who has responsibility for motorway issues. In identifying their needs and priorities, Harlow council and Essex county council should consider the full range 11.26 am of options available and the potential for attracting Sitting suspended. 103WH 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 104WH Services Child and Adolescent Mental Health Children with autism are also less likely than other Services children to have strong social relationships. One Office for National Statistics study found that 42% of children with autism had no friends, compared to 1% of other children. Children with autism may act in unusual ways, [MR JOE BENTON in the Chair] or may try to fit in with their peers in socially inappropriate ways. Other children may ridicule or bully them as 2.30 pm a result. Difficulties at school and elsewhere may affect the Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): self-esteem of children with autism. An inability to I appreciate having been able to secure the debate. I express their feelings can lead to escalating emotions or thank the Minister and shadow Minister for their leave them unable to deal with experiences such as loss attendance, and am grateful to the other MPs present. or grief. A supportive educational setting that works for A lot of people watching the debate on the Parliament the child, in partnership with mental health services, website might not be aware that we all had a late night can be crucial to maintaining emotional well-being and last night, debating the finer points of the Finance Bill, preventing mental health problems from developing, so I am grateful to hon. Members for turning up. I also yet the NAS found that 34% of parents said that a delay thank the National Autistic Society for providing me in accessing the right support at school had had a with statistical information. I remind the Chamber that negative impact on their child’s mental health, and that I have declared an interest in the subject of the debate, half of children with autism are not in the kind of as the parent of a child with autism. school that their parents believe would best suit them. I want to discuss the experience of many families Awareness and consideration among the general public with autism; their feedback on the support provided by also play a part. Whether in shops and restaurants, on child and adolescent mental health services, or CAMHS; public transport or in the park, children with autism and and problems of communication, misdiagnosis and the their parents can face intolerance and lack of understanding training of CAMHS professionals. I will then make that can cause considerable stress and anxiety. the case for more specialist autism support and ask the It does not have to be like that. Most of those Minister a number of questions. difficulties can be overcome with the right support for Autism is a serious, lifelong, disabling condition that children with autism and their families. Children with affects how a person communicates with and relates to autism can live happy, healthy, fulfilled lives, do well at other people. It is a spectrum disorder that affects each school and reach their full potential. Everyone in society individual differently. Some people with autism can must take some responsibility for making that happen. lead independent and fulfilling lives with little support, I intend to concentrate on the support that children while others need specialist support throughout their with autism and their families receive when mental lives. health problems develop. According to Government- People with autism have said that, to them, the world commissioned research conducted by the university of is a mass of people, places and events of which they Durham, one child in every 10 who accesses child and struggle to make sense, and which can cause them adolescent mental health services has an autism spectrum considerable anxiety. In particular, understanding and disorder. That amounts to more than 10,000 children a relating to other people and taking part in everyday year. Such children are often extremely vulnerable and family and social life may be harder for them, while in dire need of support that works for them. Another other people appear to know intuitively how to ONS study for the Government found that 25% of children communicate and interact with each other. Approximately with autism either self-harm or have suicidal thoughts. one child in 100 has autism. Their families are desperate for skilled help that can improve their children’s mental health and quality of life. Autism is not a mental health problem, but a recent study by Professors Simonoff and Charman found that The NAS has been carrying out in-depth research on 71% of children with autism have a co-occurring mental the subject since last summer, as problems with CAMHS health problem, and 40% have two or more. Such problems were being mentioned consistently through its helpline include serious conditions such as depression, anxiety and regional offices. When NAS members were surveyed disorders and obsessive-compulsive disorder, which can on the organisation’s campaigning priorities, 99% rated be debilitating without the right support. Seven out of improving CAMHS as either important or very important. 10 children with autism develop such conditions, which The NAS held focus groups with parents and one-to-one is far too high a figure. However, with the right support interviews with children who had experienced CAMHS, from people who understand autism, such children can followed by a mass survey of parents. It also visited have mental health as good as any other child’s. several CAMHS sites and spoke to professionals and Unfortunately, that support is often unavailable in our clinical directors. society. Through its research, the NAS has found that, sadly, Children with autism find it difficult to understand most children with autism and mental health problems the world around them. They may not understand are not getting the service that they need from CAMHS. social cues and expectations or be able to identify According to the NAS survey, CAMHS fails to improve patterns and routines in their lives. Help with understanding the mental health of two thirds of children with autism. what to do in different situations or what happens next We must improve on that. in a sequence of events, or with coping with changes in One young woman said of her experiences as a nine- routine, can make a big difference, but without such year-old accessing CAMHS that support, children with autism can become anxious or “when I went in to the meeting I was miserable and depressed. frustrated. When I came out I was suicidal. I was trying to throw myself out 105WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 106WH Services Services of my windows and hang myself… It took me several years to the symptoms of mental health problems from autism- recover and I didn’t ever want anything to do with them.” related behaviours: if the CAMHS team focused on The NAS consistently heard from professionals, parents autism, mental health issues were ignored. Some parents and children that, despite the huge proportion of children said that the professionals they met considered conditions with autism in the system, understanding of autism such as anxiety disorders inevitable and unavoidable among professionals is generally poor. Only half of side-effects of autism, rather than as the separate, treatable parents feel that CAMHS staff have a good understanding conditions that they are. of autism, and fewer than half think that CAMHS staff Many of the professionals told the NAS that they know how to communicate properly with their child. wanted more opportunities for professional training To work successfully with a child with autism, a and development, so that they and their colleagues CAMHS professional must have a good understanding would be better able to work with children with autism of autism. Autism is a communication difficulty, so the and mental health problems. Many children with autism professional must generally adapt how they communicate, receive either inappropriate support or no support at all which requires a good understanding of autism. With because the right support simply does not exist in their respect to some children, that involves speaking more area. Some CAMHS professionals told the NAS that clearly and directly, while others have limited or no their waiting lists for children with autism were much verbal communication and may need visual cues to help longer than those for children without autism, and that, them to make sense of and communicate their feelings. because so few staff had autism training, the vast A child with autism is likely to take longer than other majority lacked the skills to treat children with autism, children to trust the professional and communicate so those children were left waiting for the handful of openly. staff with sufficient autism expertise. Professionals may also have to adapt their explanations to be less abstract or hypothetical and relate more Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con): As chair directly to the specifics of the child’s situation. For of the all-party group on autism, I congratulate the example, if a professional works with a child with hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on an immensely autism to deal with a certain situation in a classroom important subject. The NAS has done fantastic work setting, the child will usually struggle to generalise, raising these issues with colleagues. What training did applying the same techniques at home or on the school CAMHS staff receive under the previous Government bus. The professional will have to work through each and does he think it was adequate? If not, what situation in turn, which is not necessary for other children. improvements might be made? Children with autism can also struggle to explain difficulties that they are not currently experiencing. One Jonathan Reynolds: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for child said: her intervention, and I acknowledge her work and “They need to be there when things happen, because when I expertise in this field. I approach this subject primarily went to see the doctor at our local CAMHS I never felt bad and as a parent, so I am happy to say that more needs to be couldn’t talk about what had been hard because it wasn’t happening done. I am not making this a party political issue then”. between this Government and the previous one. I am When professionals are given the time and training to trying to highlight the issue and, I hope, move forward get to know the child and their family, understand the together, across the House. child’s autism and how they communicate best, and I wish to identify some good practice relating to the adapt their approach accordingly, outcomes are greatly hon. Lady’s question. Dudley primary care trust operates improved. However, a professional who does not understand an autism clinic that focuses on diagnosis and assessment, autism is unlikely to make such adjustments, leading to and has the specialist expertise to assess complex autism a breakdown in communication and making effective cases. The clinic takes a “broad apprenticeship” approach intervention extremely difficult. to training new staff, which gives them the opportunity When a child with autism also has a mental health to observe specialists and more experienced clinicians problem, it is crucial that the right support is provided assessing children from behind a one-way mirror. for the right diagnosis. If a child is wrongly assessed, the After new staff have watched several assessments, wrong support will inevitably follow. Practitioners who they progress to shadowing colleagues and then to do not have a good understanding of autism can taking the lead with children with autism, with support misdiagnose children as a result, leading to inappropriate from a specialist. Finally, they are able to work alone or unsuitable interventions. Without a sound working and train new starters themselves. They learn through knowledge of autism, some behaviours that are common practical experience, rather than theory. The clinic also in children with autism can easily be interpreted as shares its expertise more widely and trains external mental health problems. For example, autism-related agencies. For instance, it trained a group of specialist personal obsessions, rituals and routines can lead to a autism teachers and key workers to provide social skills false diagnosis of OCD. Peculiarities and fads about training to children, meaning that social skills training what a child eats can come across as an eating disorder. could continue once a child had left CAMHS, making it Sleeping difficulties or an aversion to human touch can far more effective than if it had been delivered once and wrongly lead to suspicions of abuse-related trauma. then discontinued. The NAS found that some children who had been There is clear evidence that a good understanding of diagnosed with autism were wrongly undiagnosed by a autism is vital to delivering an effective service to the professional who was convinced that their behaviour high number of children with autism in the CAMHS was symptomatic of a different condition. Other children’s system. All professionals working in CAMHS must mental health conditions were overshadowed by their have their training needs relating to autism recognised autism, when professionals were unable to distinguish and addressed. In “Fulfilling and rewarding lives”, the 107WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 108WH Services Services [Jonathan Reynolds] Gentleman asks about cannot be made. Each parent and professional would, in respect of the support that Government’s recently published strategy for adults they had, have to make the decision based on what was with autism, there is a commitment for best for that particular child. “all NHS practitioners” The professionals who spoke to the NAS stressed the to importance of specialist autism expertise when dealing “be able to identify potential signs of autism, so they can refer for with a child with autism and mental health problems. clinical diagnosis if necessary… but more importantly so they can They explained how in many cases a specific skill-set is understand how to adapt their behaviour, and particularly their required to treat these children and that without that communication, when a patient either has been diagnosed with specialist knowledge it can be very difficult to effect any autism or displays these signs.” real improvement. They felt that specialist expertise was The same strategy commits the Government to working often required to get a real understanding of how the with the General Medical Council and various professional child’s mental health problems related to their autism, bodies and how they would need to adapt the interventions “to improve the quality of autism awareness training in their they provided to take account of the child’s autism. curricula.” What action do the Government intend to take to Although basic autism knowledge will help a professional ensure that the NHS training objectives made in the to communicate better with the child and understand autism strategy, “Fulfilling and rewarding lives”, are better why the child displays certain behaviours or met, so that all CAMHS practitioners receive some symptoms, greater expertise is often needed to make a basic training in autism? positive difference to the child’s mental health. That is because many therapies and interventions rely on thought Dr John Pugh (Southport) (LD): The hon. Gentleman processes and communication techniques that do not has made two distinct points so far: that mental health make sense to children with autism, and only skilful problems can be masked by autism so that a person who adaptation from a specialist can make them relevant really has mental health problems may be seen only as and useful. Children with autism often will not gain any having autism, and that autistic behaviour can be benefit from treatment that is applied in the standard misdiagnosed as a mental health issue. Surely that is a way. Indeed, such treatment can make things worse. very tricky situation for any diagnostician to be in. Again, we should recognise good practice where it Jonathan Reynolds: Yes, it is difficult. To be clear, my exists. West Berkshire has a social communication team point is that the prevalence and frequency of co-occurring that provides home and community-based assessment mental health problems with autism require CAMHS and intervention for young people with complex diagnostic professionals to have specialist training. Without that issues or needs that cannot be met by local services. support, there can be misdiagnosis, which can lead to That team works with children with autism and a the situation that the hon. Gentleman referred to. co-occurring mental health disorder. It takes a Does the Minister agree that, given the high proportion multidisciplinary approach, incorporating speech and of children with autism who access CAMHS, all CAMHS language therapists, two clinical psychologists and a professionals should receive some autism training? psychiatrist. The team is also part of a wider I have explained how a basic knowledge of autism multidisciplinary group that provides services for children among all CAMHS staff is essential to ensuring that with autism in west Berkshire. The team recognises the appropriate interventions are delivered to children with need to adapt therapies to account for autism. Psychologists autism, but that alone is not enough. Providing mental divide their time between diagnosis and follow-up health support to a child with autism is a specialist skill. appointments, and provide behavioural and mental health Research has found that when an autism specialist has interventions. been involved in the support of a child, the outcomes and service satisfaction both improve dramatically. Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I have worked The NAS found that parents who reported that their in this area for many years, with many children and child had received support from a professional specialising CAMHS services. I have found across the country that in autism were twice as likely as those whose children there is massive inconsistency in the quality of CAMHS had not to agree that CAMHS had improved their services, but there is absolute consistency in the lack of child’s mental health. They were also four times as likely those services for children. Quality is variable throughout to say that a good understanding of autism by mental the country. Although the services that my hon. Friend health professionals had positively influenced their child’s is talking about are at the upper end of the scale, for mental health. However, only two in five parents say many children they simply do not exist. that their child has had such support. Jonathan Reynolds: I am tremendously grateful to my Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): I hon. Friend for her intervention. She has great expertise congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. in this and other matters, and in another capacity was As a parent of an autistic child, does he support the responsible for the education system that I went through. idea that children on the autistic spectrum should be I hope that I am not letting her down. educated in special schools, or are such children better off in mainstream schools? Following on from that, as so many children who access CAMHS have autism, what action will the Jonathan Reynolds: Speaking as a parent, we must Government take to ensure that specialist autism support recognise that this is a spectrum disorder. Therefore, is available to all children with autism and mental children with autism are in different situations and have health problems? To take up what my hon. Friend has different symptoms, and each requires a response particular said, I think we would all agree that one matter that to them. Generalisations of the kind that the hon. always arises when we talk to parents and campaigners 109WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 110WH Services Services is the inconsistency in service delivery across the country. 2.53 pm For every example of innovative or positive practice, Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): there are often many examples of children with autism I congratulate the hon. Member for Stalybridge and and mental health problems facing inadequate or non- Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) on securing this debate, and existent provision. providing comprehensive coverage of the vital issues. I Local commissioners are supposed to plan services also congratulate the National Autistic Society on its based on the needs of the local population, but it seems “You Need to Know” campaign, because we must make that in many instances commissioners are unaware of services work better for people with autism. An important either the number of children with autism and mental aspect of that is to make CAMHS services throughout health problems in their area, or that those children the country work effectively for children with autism. need specific support from people who understand autism, I have been contacted by constituents asking me to or both. When commissioners fail to recognise and support the campaign, and I want to begin my brief address the needs of children with autism and mental contribution by describing some of their experiences, health problems, those extremely vulnerable children because they illustrate all the general points that the and their families do not receive the support that they National Autistic Society makes. One constituent wrote: need. Commissioning is a local exercise, but there is no “I first realised there was something wrong with Jon’s development doubt that direction from the Government at national at the age of 2 but was told by my Health Visitor that I was level can make a huge difference to what is commissioned. comparing him to his older exceptionally bright brother and that Previous Government directives—for example, the he was fine. I continued over the next 2 years to say that ‘something national indicators, Care Quality Commission inspections wasn’t right’ until she eventually agreed to get his hearing checked—he and the national service framework for children—have wasn’t interacting with me, seemed in his own little world and wouldn’t even respond to his name. His hearing was fine so she instructed commissioners to prioritise specific areas of referred him to a speech therapist as he didn’t talk much but after CAMHS, such as age-appropriate in-patient wards for a few weeks of attending, he was discharged saying he was ok. It teenagers, early intervention services, and services for was only once he’d started school that he was referred”— children with a learning disability. Those directives drive to the local hospital— commissioning in those areas, and lead to greater availability “But the consultant…decided that Jon must have a form of of services and greater consistency across the country. epilepsy as he would ‘switch off’ in the playground and was The National Autistic Society has provided strong oblivious to his surroundings. He did months of tests but they evidence that CAMHS are failing children with autism, revealed nothing”. and that results for such children can be greatly improved Eventually, Asperger’s syndrome was diagnosed, and by improving autism understanding and specialisms my constituent went through years of seeking help. She within CAMHS. We know that only 10% of CAMHS continued: provide targeted support to children with autism. Surely, “I have no idea what or how to access services which may or there is a strong argument for the Government to may not be available to Jon especially CAMHS. He is 17, 14 stone prioritise the commissioning of services for children and 6ft 3, and can have tantrums likea2yearold—just as sudden with autism. and just as violent. I asked my GP if there was some kind of Anger Management course available to him or if he could see a Ten thousand children with autism access CAMHS psychologist that could help him. He said I would have to see each year. Given that the mental health of two thirds of Jon’s consultant”. children with autism is not improved by the support And so it went on. My constituent believes that training that they receive, that is a huge waste of NHS resources is needed across the board for GPs, nurses and psychologists, when we can ill afford such a waste. Furthermore, when as well as with direct CAMHS services. children with autism receive services that do not work for them, or receive no support because none is available, Another constituent who works with children and their problems escalate and become more complex. Not young people with autism said: only does that mean that it is much harder for families “I feel that many health professionals are unaware of the to cope; it means that, ultimately, those children are battles faced by those living with autism. I have often found those much more expensive for the NHS to treat. A relatively from outside agencies quite hostile towards our clients…not realising that they need to be treated differently from neurotypical short period of appropriate therapy from an autism people. Most of these students have diagnosis in other things such specialist at an early stage could prevent a child from as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, ADHD and Pathological needing a long stretch in an expensive in-patient unit. Demand Avoidance and attachment disorders.” If commissioners were given more guidance and direction They say that it is to help them to commission the right services for children “hard to find people with the right expertise to deal with these with autism in the first instance, we could stop wasting disorders as they usually have not dealt with people with autism money and stop wasting lives. What action will the before, leaving these other diagnoses untreated. Add this to the Government take at national level to ensure that the fact that the provision for all of these services usually drop away right services for children with autism are commissioned once a person with autism reaches 19 and are transferred into locally across the country? adult services and it seems we are failing those with a diagnosis” of autism. Several hon. Members rose— Another constituent said: “My experience with CAMHS for Sam has been quite negative. Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair): Order. The debate lasts We saw an ASD Nurse Specialist from CAMHS for about 6 months. only one and a half hours. Several hon. Members have He knew very little about autism, in fact he used to borrow books indicated that they would like to speak—I will do my on autism from parents”. best to call them all—so perhaps they will bear that Another constituent wrote: time limit in mind, and that I propose to start the “We are consistently told by professionals that they are severely winding-up speeches at 3.40 pm. overstretched which from personal experience and talking to 111WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 112WH Services Services [Annette Brooke] 3.2 pm Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- other parents leads to very few families receiving adequate support…Maybe if money was invested on these children as they op): I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member deserve…then they would be more likely to develop into functioning for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) on securing adults who are able to contribute to society in a positive way this important debate. Hon. Members who know that I rather than developing into adults with mental health issues who come from north of the border may wonder why I are totally reliant on the state.” choose to speak on a matter that essentially relates to Those four experiences sum up many of the issues that devolved issues in Scotland. However, in a number of we are debating. areas, we have to look across the UK, and the National Autism is not a mental health problem, which makes Autistic Society has a facility—Daldorch House—in it difficult for people to access appropriate services. As my constituency, which has become a centre of excellence we have heard from the hon. Gentleman, a large proportion in the local area and is looked to by a number of local of children with autism have mental health problems, authorities, not just in Scotland but across the UK, for which may develop because of the symptoms that they advice on how to approach work with young people express and subsequent interaction with other people. with disorders on the autistic spectrum. They may become more socially isolated at school I have taken an interest in this subject over many because of their characteristics. The problem snowballs years, and I first came across young people with disorders if the symptoms of autism are not identified early, and on the autistic spectrum 30 years ago as a young art the child’s journey does not include trained people who therapist. It is fair to say that there have been a number understand its complexities and varieties. of positive moves both in recognising the range of issues that people face, and in looking at different ways Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): The debate is of working with people and the different services required. rightly concentrating on the inadequacies of CAMHS, Despite all those improvements, all of us as elected but my hon. Friend knows of my interest in teacher Members of Parliament will come across people in our training and teachers’ awareness of identifying the constituencies who still have to battle, fight and almost characteristics of autism. There is understandable scream from the rooftops in order to get the services frustration among teachers at the lack of training facilities that they need for their children. and opportunities available to them. One difficulty that people often face—I certainly experienced this as the Minister responsible for education Annette Brooke: My hon. Friend and I, along with in Scotland when I tried to introduce a piece of legislation many others, have worked hard on education, and we that should have provided additional support for learning— are slowly making progress. Today’s debate takes us arises because parents are suspicious of any change, as further afield because we have to get the whole package they feel that it might lessen the rights of young people, right for children with autism. rather than give them increased rights to education and other support. Being mindful of the time, Mr Benton, I would like to touch on two issues. First, I would like to emphasise the This morning, I received in my e-mail inbox a piece of need for training for CAMHS professionals, which is correspondence from a constituent, which I think sums vital for all the communication issues mentioned by the up how much further we still have to go. The parents hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde. The issue is were writing about the needs of their teenage son, and not straightforward, which means that there must be the difficulties that they have encountered in finding training; there must be flexibility, patience, skill and appropriate educational placements. Their son is already understanding. The local CAMHS commissioning process in a school but, according to the parents, that school is designed to identify and address skills gaps in the does not have the necessary skills and experience to local work force. What steps will the Government take cope with him and does not want him there for reasons to ensure that such gaps are identified and addressed of health and safety. Another school has been identified with regard to autism? in the local authority area, and although it has the skills and expertise, it does not have enough support staff to I have been involved with the Every Disabled Child take the teenager on. The parents are extremely worried Matters campaign, and one area of concern that we about the impact of budget cuts that are already being have identified is the falling apart of services for disabled made in the local authority, with learning support children during the transition period. There is a lack of assistants—and others—being made redundant. forward planning for the transition, starting about age 14. That is particularly true for children and young As a result, those parents told me that they do not people with autism, because they are likely to require know whether any schooling will be available for their ongoing mental health support and to need a smooth son after the summer break. They have been advised by changeover between children’s services and those for both schools that they are unlikely to hear anything adults. One issue that I have with children’s trusts is that from the education authority until two days before the in some local authorities, there is a great dichotomy start of the new school term. All hon. Members who between children’s and adult’s services. The best local are aware of the issues surrounding education for young authorities manage the transition well, but there is the people with disorders on the autistic spectrum will potential for people to fall through the gap. How do the know that that is an unacceptable way to deal with Government intend to ensure that CAMHS and relevant young people who require support and preparation, adult services work together to plan appropriate ongoing and for their parents, who need to know what is going support for children with a mental health problem to happen. and an additional disability, such as autism, and for I am conscious of the time, but I want to say that we all young people who require ongoing mental health must work to identify who these young people are. support? Every local authority and health board has a responsibility 113WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 114WH Services Services to identify young people with disorders on the autistic Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette spectrum and put in place appropriate support packages. Brooke), resulted in their having to scream and shout I am concerned that we are not currently doing enough from the rooftops, bang on doors and adopt behaviour to recognise that those young people will grow into that they might never have contemplated at the beginning adults, and at some stage will require not only support of their journey. I simply ask the eternal question: why to enter further education or employment and all that does it have to be like this? Why on earth are we still in goes with that, but support with the ageing process. At this position in the second decade of the 21st century? some stage, there will be a significant number of people The National Autistic Society was founded nearly 50 years approaching their elderly years who are diagnosed as ago. Medical research into, and analysis of, the condition having a disorder on the autistic spectrum. We have not that we now know as autism began as long as 70 years done anything to look at that issue. ago. I appreciate that the calls on the public purse are It is important that parents receive support. Everyone immense, but progress on this issue is too slow, and that who has been the parent of a teenager knows that it is a is betraying an entire generation of children and young difficult time. I used to joke that my son disappeared people. into his bedroom aged 14, and came out a better person Provision for the transition from youth to adulthood aged 17. [HON.MEMBERS: “Too early!”] Perhaps I was is—I hesitate to say this, but I will press on none the lucky. For people who have teenagers with disorders on less—nothing short of scandalous. The excellent provision the autistic spectrum, it is a difficult enough period. The in the education and children’s services sector suddenly added pressures and the support that parents require vanishes when the young person reaches the magic, or has not been adequately recognised. should I say tragic, age of adulthood. Time and time We must pay attention to the number of people who again, I have met constituents who are crying out for end up in young offenders institutions and prison systems the help and support that they thoroughly deserve, but but who probably, had their condition been picked up at who are not getting it. They understand and are conscious an earlier stage, would have been diagnosed as being of the fact that they are increasingly a burden on our somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I have also raised society, but it should not be like that. They should not that issue in a Scottish context. When people are in a be a burden on the rest of us; they should be making a place such as a young offenders institution or prison, valuable and meaningful contribution to our society. we should be able to identify the problem, get them the We should not forget the talents, idiosyncrasies and appropriate help and support, and look specifically at amazing abilities of children and young people with how we can help them in the future. such lifelong conditions. I talked about the initially I am grateful for the opportunity to make a brief negative experience of learning and understanding that contribution to the debate. When the Minister responds, one’s child has autism. As I said at the beginning, perhaps she will say something about what the Government however, the positive aspect of such conditions must are planning to do about the transition from education not be forgotten. These children and young people are into employment, and about the specific issue of how not a burden; they add to the mosaic of human experience, we can provide support for people as they go through and we need to understand and embrace that as we the ageing process and inevitably require a degree of address the questions. support from the state. I know that we have touched on this point in the debate, but we should not forget the position of parents Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair): I call Roger Buckland. and carers of young people with autism. All of us with 3.8 pm experience and knowledge of the position of parents and carers will understand that the pressure on them is Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): Thank often intolerable. They often need support and access to you, Mr Benton, for giving me my father’s name. Robert mental health services themselves if we are to avoid Buckland is my true name. I am grateful for the opportunity some appalling scenarios. In one appalling case in south to speak in this debate, and I congratulate the hon. Wales recently—I will not go into it, because it is sub Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) judice—a parent was detained under the Mental Health on an excellent and comprehensive analysis of the report Act 1983, and a young child lost his life. In the second from the National Autistic Society, which many of us decade of the 21st century, that is unacceptable in any have read and found extremely useful. book. I declare an interest because, like the hon. Gentleman, Hon. Members have eloquently outlined the need for I am the parent of a child on the autistic spectrum. My training, and I need not repeat what they have said. experience, although initially negative, is something that Professionals who are outside this place, or who may be I have decided to try to be positive about, again like the present, will say that they are doing all they can with hon. Gentleman. Having had the honour of being limited resources to deal with the huge variety of problems elected to this place, I regard it as my duty to raise those they are presented with as paediatricians in the national experiences, talk about them and do whatever I can to health service or as mental health practitioners. I understand advance the cause of children, young people and adults that resources are tight, but as has been said—I make with autism, the autistic spectrum disorder and Asperger’s no apology for repeating it—there is huge potential for syndrome. saving money by intervening early and recognising problems. The “You Need to Know” campaign touches on an In these times, when finance is understandably the issue that all of us, whether Members of Parliament, Government’s paramount consideration, is that not a parents, professionals or members of the public, may strong and persuasive argument for supporting provision? have experienced in recent years, as the extent of the diagnosis of autism has dramatically increased. A group Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): of individuals and their families feel utterly isolated My hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde because their experiences have, in the words of the hon. (Jonathan Reynolds) mentioned west Berkshire. As a 115WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 116WH Services Services [Mr Russell Brown] which the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole posed, is whether there is proper integration with result of the pressure that I and others in my locality adult services. Therein lies the problem, and more work have put on our local health board, we now have an needs to be done. integrated ASD network, with speech and language I am grateful for being allowed to contribute to the therapists and a whole host of professionals. The hon. debate. I hope that this will be the first of many Gentleman has hit on the central point: early intervention, contributions that I make on the subject in the years with good, sound, solid professionals working together ahead. I thank you for allowing me to speak, Mr Benton. as a team, will make the difference. That can save money in the long term, but, more important, it can alter the quality of life for young people and their 3.19 pm families. Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge Mr Buckland: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) on securing this important important intervention, which leads to the point that I debate and on his well informed and persuasive speech. was about to make. We could spend hours in a chicken- It is encouraging that the debate is so well attended and and-egg argument about whether mental health conditions that it is informed by the personal experience of parents precede autism. Let us not forget that autism is often of children with autism. accompanied by physical disabilities and a range of Like other hon. Members I have received a number of other conditions, so it is a complex area. Similarly, representations from constituents in support of the mental health problems will accompany autism in some National Autistic Society “YouNeed to Know”campaign. families for hereditary or genetic reasons, so it is probably I applaud the work of the society and its supporters in not worth getting into the chicken-and-egg argument. raising the profile of the needs of children and young There is, however, no doubt that a number of young people with autism and of the importance of ensuring people who present themselves to CAMHS will have that there is proper diagnosis and support from CAMHS, had an imperfect or late diagnosis of their condition, GPs and other health professionals for the 70% of and I am afraid that my personal experience in that children with autism who also have mental health issues. respect has been rather negative. Experienced paediatricians, My hon. Friend set out both the range of difficulties whom I will not name, because they are distinguished in that young people face as they go through life and the their field—one in particular is very distinguished in the opportunities that are opened up by the right skilled medical-legal field—told me that diagnosis at two or help. I want to raise a couple of points that I think are three was not possible for autism and ASD. I was a important. The first is the interaction between autism mere layman in those days, and I had not made the and mental health and the number of young people journey that I have now, so I accepted what I was told at who are not in education, employment or training. An the time, but I learned later that it was not the case. If interesting Audit Commission report on re-engaging that attitude is still prevalent, we have a problem. I do young people—published today, coincidentally—includes not want to criticise health care professionals, who do a an analysis of the characteristics of young people in the wonderful job, but the point being made by the National NEET category, and shows for example that whereas Autistic Society is that we need more training, awareness young people with either learning difficulties and disabilities and understanding. That is all we ask for in this debate. or one or more special educational needs statements The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole comprise 10% of all young people, they comprise 23% of asked the proper question about transition provisions. young people who are not in education, employment or We now have the Autism Act 2009, and we await the training for six months or more. It does not give figures statutory guidance, which is all-important in fleshing specifically on those with autism, but the proportion out the bones of the Act. The guidance is key, and we will be significant—not counting, of course, those who need the Government to give a clear steer in it as to how have not been properly diagnosed. That is an important we manage the transition from childhood to adulthood. issue. That is a key time, but there is, as I have said, a One of the key recommendations of the Audit scandalous dislocation in provision, which needs to be Commission report is that local councils, especially dealt with properly. with the transfer of 16-19 funding, and all the existing As the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway and coming pressures on local budgets, need to understand (Mr Brown) so eloquently said, we need to look at key the nature of their local NEET population and to target intervention at the earliest stage. A lot of the mental their support appropriately. I urge that understanding health conditions that accompany autism can be avoided the extent of autism and mental health difficulties among through early intervention, which would mean that those young people should be a key part of the analysis there was less pressure on CAMHS and less of a crisis and of the supportive action that needs to be provided in the key early and mid-teen years. by health, education and training professionals. I know that other hon. Members want to contribute, Another point that I would like to stress follows from so I will finish on this point. We have seen some excellent the comments of the hon. Members for Mid Dorset and examples of provision, and west Berkshire has been North Poole (Annette Brooke) and for South Swindon cited. In authorities such as mine in Swindon, the PCT (Mr Buckland): it is the importance of improving and and children’s services are integrated and work very joining up support for young people with autism as they well. They are starting to do the outreach work in move into adulthood, which is understandably a particularly CAMHS in the primary sector that will help to identify stressful time for the individuals concerned and their problems and improve early intervention. However, parents. Certainly in my area in Oxford, although there although that integration is all very well, the question, is still some way to go, there have been welcome 117WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 118WH Services Services improvements in support for children and young people focus particularly on adolescent mental health provision, in education. Parents have praised to me the work done rather than childhood provision, and on waiting times. I by Oxford and Cherwell Valley further education college. accept the point that all the hon. Members who have However, as youngsters become adults it can be an spoken have made about the critical nature for families especially uncertain time, when the prospects for work, and, obviously, patients, of waiting times—the time other meaningful activity, further training, social between a suspicion that something is wrong and getting relationships and housing become problematic, and a diagnosis and treatment. Those are of course different their parents are getting older. There needs to be a things—one can get an early diagnosis but be slow in better joined-up approach between health, social services getting treatment. and housing providers so that there is a coherent system It is not surprising that that issue is crucial during of support. As the Audit Commission report recommends, adolescence, when huge hormonal, physiological, social there is a need for better co-ordination between Connexions and personality changes are happening. That is a stage and Jobcentre Plus, and better handover arrangements in life when, often, psychotic and other disturbances as people move forward and look to the possibilities of first become evident. One of the more depressing passages work. included in the Library debate pack deals with that fact. At a time when local council budgets face huge cuts, It states: it is all the more important that we should speak up for “Mental illnesses are the chronic diseases of young people.” the needs of those young people, which have so often It continues: been misunderstood and neglected in the past. They “It is a curious paradox that better physical health in young must not be marginalised in the battles for funding people has been accompanied by steadily worsening mental health.” ahead. One crucial point from the Audit Commission That is indeed what the national statistics show, and it is report is that early intervention and the right early why early intervention matters, because if it is successful support not only make a huge difference to people’s and efficacious it means someone does not have a life of quality of life, but, as the hon. Member for South ongoing suffering and disturbances. Swindon said, they can save big sums of public money in the long run. The report illustrates that fact by My inquiries of the various PCTs unsurprisingly contrasting the example of a young man with Asperger’s produced patchy results, in accordance with the well- who gets the right support and ends up with a life in documented contributions made by other hon. Members. work, and one who does not, and ends up with a life on There was a general variation in standards, which I benefits. think people might expect, and which has been vouched for today, but what disturbed me more was the lack of I should be grateful if the Minister would let us know clarity about who was responsible for the standards. My what guidance and support will be given to local councils, inquiries were passed from PCT to CAMHS and back. health authorities and others on relevant matters so People did not seem clear about who would carry the that young people with autism and their families can can if provision were less than adequate. The implication face the future with more confidence, and in particular is that for people using the services no one is ultimately what action the Government will take to ensure that responsible; that is the nagging feeling. CAMHS and adult mental health teams work together Another feature that cropped up in my research was so that there is the right continuing support. an apparent lack of dedicated facilities and expertise in many places, and a recognition that although in some 3.24 pm places there were adequate facilities for children, facilities Dr John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I want to add a few for adolescents were wholly inadequate. There is no footnotes to the excellent introduction to the debate by excuse for that state of affairs in relation to Asperger’s the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan syndrome and the autistic spectrum, because what is Reynolds), who set out the major issues carefully and required for progress is very clear. Certainly, early diagnosis meticulously. Mental health and autism cropped up is required, but the National Audit Office report that I emphatically in debates on the Mental Health Act 2007. have seen—which I think Baroness Browning did something We were then largely concerned with the treatment of to trigger—clearly stated that specialist autism teams young people, including making treatment specific to were the way forward, coupled with good integration, them, rather than putting young people into adult and so on. That is all known, but hon. Members have accommodation or the like, or giving them adult services reported that across the country none of it has been when juvenile services would be appropriate. While perfectly accomplished. recognising that that was not always possible, I pay May I make a personal constituency point? I increasingly tribute to the campaign by YoungMinds for adolescents receive complaints from parents of children who are to receive adequate, full treatment no matter what their mildly autistic but are now being excluded from services condition or mental health. because needs must—there are pressures on local authority I pay tribute to the work done on the 2007 Act by the resources, as the right hon. Member for Oxford East hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim (Mr Smith) illustrated. That is profoundly depressing, Loughton), who has gone on to greater things, and to because the result is that people who could progress to Baroness Browning, the former Member for Tiverton independence and, in later life, manage far better for and Honiton, who was a champion of autistic people in themselves and not become problems as adults are not this place and who pioneered the work that was taken making progress at the key point at which they could be on by other hands as the basis for the private Member’s making the progress necessary to become independent Bill that subsequently became the Autism Act 2009. Off of parents and institutions. the back of the 2007 Act, I carried out my own research My conclusion and, I think, the conclusion of the on provision for children and adolescents and wrote to whole debate is that we are confronted with a situation every PCT for which I could obtain a name. I wanted to in which there is a known complaint, a known solution, 119WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 120WH Services Services [Dr John Pugh] the knowledge that we have at the moment, but do not think that that knowledge is comprehensive, because it enormous support from the voluntary sector and clarity can be improved and then the lives of people with this about what is required, but on the statutory side there is condition will be improved as well. a somewhat ham-fisted response. Getting that ham-fisted response removed and replaced with something better is 3.35 pm the thrust of the debate. Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde 3.30 pm (Jonathan Reynolds) for securing the debate, which has Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): It is been excellent. I do not disagree with anything that I a great pleasure and privilege to contribute briefly to have heard, nor do I intend to repeat any of it. I shall the debate. I congratulate the hon. Members for Stalybridge concentrate on the areas that I have the most concerns and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) and for South Swindon about. (Mr Buckland) on making contributions based on their We have come a long way in recent years and there personal and family experience of this matter. Many of have been improvements, particularly in education, but us have not had that experience and our comments we must not be complacent and there is still a long way come from a different level of understanding. However, to go. The two areas that I have the greatest concern the message that I get from the debate is that given the about are transition, which I shall come on to, and level of understanding and competence that there is for diagnosis. This refers back to the issues of child and this condition, there should be much better training for adolescent mental health services. In my experience, far the professionals involved and much better working too many children still receive a diagnosis that is less together and co-ordination between those professionals— related to their symptoms and difficulties than to who between people in the medical profession, between people they are and where they live. I still see too many cases in in education and between people in social services. which clinicians go down the route of attention deficit Some of the things that I shall say may seem a little hyperactivity disorder or EBD—emotional and behavioural cold and uncaring, but although the diagnosis of autism difficulties—first, because of the family and where they and the triad of impairments—the three conditions live. That means that those children and their families that lead to a classical diagnosis of autism—have been do not gain access to the diagnosis, services and provision established, we have since realised that this is a spectrum that they need. That is one concern, and it relates to condition. Every child, every young person—and every what I said in an intervention about the quality and adult, for that matter—is an individual and their needs consistency of CAMHS across the country. If people are different. look at the issue geographically—on a map, as I have I first became aware of this issue a long time ago, done—they will see hot spots of certain diagnoses, and when I became a governor of a special school at about sometimes around certain clinicians. Those issues need the time that Baroness Warnock produced her report to be addressed. that changed our attitude to the education of children Everything that I have heard today about transition, with special needs. The idea was that every child should particularly transition in the early years, is absolutely have the support appropriate to them. We have moved correct. If we get that right and provide access to the on a long way: at that time, autism was hardly ever right services—good, well co-ordinated provision—the talked about, and I did not really have an understanding mental health of those children and their families will of it. Our knowledge has moved on a lot and improved, be much improved, outcomes will be much improved and professionals have a much better opportunity to and we will save money in the long run. Transition in use it. My point this afternoon is that we still need to do the early years is crucial and will save us money in a more fundamental research into the condition. What time of austerity. causes it? Is there a genetic element to it? Is there an The transition at the other end is also an issue. A lot environmental element? Is there a social element? At the of emphasis has been placed on that in recent years, but moment, we just do not have the necessary understanding in my experience that has been about the process—the of those issues, and unless we can understand them, the right forms filled in by the right people, and the right way we intervene will not be as effective as it should be. people being at the right meetings at the right time. For The other day, I was at the Hay festival, which is in the families, the process can be fabulous, but if there is my constituency—if anyone wants to attend, they will nothing to transition on to, it is a disaster for them. be very welcome—at an event with Simon Baron-Cohen, When I was in my former role in education, we who is a researcher at Cambridge university. He was recognised that there was almost a time bomb here. looking at personality disorders and then autism. Obviously, Children are going through the education services and autism is not a personality disorder, but the issue of coming up to the adult services, but those services are empathy is relevant. People with personality disorders not there for them. Will the Minister consider the issues are unable to relate to other people, and there is an of diagnosis and quality of provision across the country element within autism of finding it difficult to understand to ensure that a child’s diagnosis is right and not based the nature of a person’s response. The good news was on the family’s circumstances or socio-economic grouping? that that gentleman, doing his research, felt that there Will she also consider transition in relation to the were ways in which the research could be used to ensure quality of provision, not just the processes, forms and that interventions and the way in which autism is treated meetings? are more successfully dealt with and lead to great improvements in the quality of people’s lives. 3.38 pm My message to the Minister is therefore: please, in all Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I thank the this, do not forget the fundamental research that is hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) and essential if we are to make progress. Yes, make use of my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire 121WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 122WH Services Services (Roger Williams) for the speed with which they spoke. I Children with autism are particularly susceptible to intended to make a bigger contribution about some of developing mental health problems, and many Members the good precedents and good practice that we have mentioned the fact that there is a range of reasons for experienced in Wales, in the hope that the Minister that. Such children may experience social isolation, and might have a look at that, but I shall just highlight the 70% of children with autism struggle to make and keep launch on 28 June by the Welsh Assembly Government friends, compared to 10% of other children. Children of their new child and adolescent mental health strategy and young people with autism also find it challenging and the work commissioned by the Assembly Government or impossible to express how they are feeling. The from Professor Sue Leekam of the Wales Autism Research struggle to communicate causes frustration and anger, Centre. It is undertaking evaluation of the assessment which can lead to mental health problems. and diagnosis of children with disorders on the autistic With the right support given at the right time, many spectrum, which will analyse and strategically examine of those problems can be prevented. Given that one CAMHS provision and many of the inadequacies of child in 10 who accesses child and adolescent mental that, particularly in professional training, which we health services has autism, that should be a priority for have heard about from hon. Members. the professionals in that service. However, only just over I wish to highlight also the work being undertaken by half the parents surveyed by the National Autistic the Betsi Cadwaladr university health board, which Society thought that staff working in CAMHS had a operates in north Wales, to develop a register for children good understanding of autism. Many of the professionals and young people with autism. I applaud what the hon. to whom the society spoke felt strongly that there were Member for North West Durham said about the lottery not enough training opportunities—many hon. Members of service provision, but the strong message is that we touched on that point. Professionals need to develop must identify the extent of the challenges that face the their clinical expertise in order to work with children nation. The problem was not addressed by previous with autism and mental health problems. There is good Governments; I hope that it will be addressed by this one. experience of that happening up and down the country. I end with a brief anecdote. We have heard some The high number of children with autism, coupled powerful stories this afternoon. My earlier intervention with the lack of skilled professionals, leads to many about teacher training was deliberate. I spent 12 years in children being seen by professionals who are unable to the classroom and I always realised that, even as a meet their needs or simply being turned away. I have professional, I was sometimes failing the children in my some questions for the Minister; I may be repeating care. The problem of the little girl who used to wander some of them, but it will not hurt to do so. Will the around the playground with no friends should have Government ensure that all child and adolescent mental been addressed, but teachers are not often equipped to health professionals are provided at least with basic do so. The fact was that when we told her, “Don’t touch autism training, so that they can meet their duties to the hot boiler in the corner of the room,” we knew that make “reasonable adjustments” under the Disability she would probably end up touching it and burn herself. Discrimination Act 1995 and provide services that meet I should have been equipped to deal with the many children’s needs? How will the Government ensure that problems that that girl presented. specialist autism support is available within CAMHS? However, there are huge opportunities, which is a As we have heard, autism is a complex disability. point that was made strongly by the hon. Member for When mental health problems arise in children with Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) and others. autism, they are harder to recognise, evaluate and treat. If we create the right environment—a nurturing, caring Professionals need a good working knowledge of autism and enriching environment—in our classrooms and in to do those things. Providing mental health support to our health service provision, people on the autistic children with autism is a specialist skill, and research spectrum will be able to make a huge and valuable conducted by the National Autistic Society found that contribution to society. if an autism specialist is involved in the support of such I am sorry for speaking so quickly, Mr Benton, but children, outcomes and service satisfaction improve thank you for allowing me to contribute. dramatically. Indeed, those parents whose children had received support from a specialist in autism were twice 3.41 pm as likely as those whose children had not to agree that Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): It the child and adolescent mental health service had is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, improved their child’s mental health. Sadly, coverage is Mr Benton, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the not good, and only two in five parents say that their Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) child has had such support. on securing an important debate to which many hon. Specialist autism support is vital. We need to adapt Members have contributed. therapies and interventions so that they are effective. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and to those parents—we Skilful adaptations will obviously make them relevant heard about them again today, and our debate has been and useful to children with autism. Many Members enriched—who have campaigned for vital improvements spoke of the importance of early intervention. Autism to services. As of yesterday, 136 Members from all specialists can also help other professionals to develop parties, including my hon. Friend and, I expect, others their skills, and they should share their experience with here today, had signed early-day motion 160, which schools and social services. highlights the fact that 10,000 children with autism use The subject of commissioning was mentioned by a child and adolescent mental health services every year. number of Members. It is particularly important, given It also highlights a survey showing that using such the radical changes that the Government have indicated services will not improve the mental health of two that they wish to make to local commissioning. The way thirds of those children. As my hon. Friend said, the services are commissioned locally for children with children are not getting the support that they need. autism and mental health problems is clearly important. 123WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 124WH Services Services [Barbara Keeley] The autism inclusion development programme has helped to improve teacher training. The social and Commissioners obviously need to know how many emotional aspects of learning programme has helped children with autism live in their area, how many of pupils at school to gain emotional and social skills, and those children also have mental health problems and has helped them with self-awareness and managing how local services are working. They need expert advice their emotions. The early support programme has helped on what is needed to deliver the right mental health families of disabled children under the age of five to get services. They then need to use those data to plan the co-ordinated support and information early, so that right services for the children. If the commissioning problems do not escalate. changes that have been signalled are to be made, it is Hon. Members touched on the fact that Labour important to take those factors on board. initiatives, such as the Every Child Matters agenda, also Commissioning must also take account of CAMHS helped to ensure that agencies work together, which is waiting times, rates of return and family outcomes for important in providing support to our most vulnerable children with autism. Specific local pathways should be children. Parents at the Every Disabled Child Matters developed for the mental health support of children reception in the House yesterday wanted assurances with autism. Parents and children affected should be from the Minister that schools would continue with the involved in the commissioning process, together with initiative. They felt that they had created the initiative, front-line professionals. and that it was not just a Government thing. The Labour Government introduced a vital new duty, Government leadership over recent years has made a which came into force in April 2010. Children’s trusts significant difference to aspects of the mental health now have to plan to meet the needs of children with system for children. In today’s debate, we are asking for special needs and disabilities. That represents a significant similar action for this other group of children. We must step forward. What action will the Government take to continue to prioritise children and young people with build on Labour’s work, to ensure that services are autism because they are among some of the most planned and commissioned at the local level so that vulnerable people in our society. every child with autism and mental health problems starts to get the support they need? How will the The Minister with responsibility for care services, the Government ensure that parents and young people are hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr Burstow), involved in the development of services to ensure that spoke about the campaign to make good mental health they meet local needs? for children with autism a reality: We know that the number of children with learning “There is no doubt that these changes can happen, where there disabilities and of children with autism who use such is a will on the ground to make them happen.” services are similar. It is clear from improvements to I hope the Minister confirms that the Government have services for children with learning disabilities achieved that will, as many hon. Members from all parts of the under Labour that having the right measures in place House have shown that they have in the debate today. does make a difference, which was mentioned during the debate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge 3.51 pm and Hyde said, the Labour Government achieved improvements to services for children with learning The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health disabilities through the 2004 national service framework. (Anne Milton): I congratulate the hon. Member for That highlighted the importance of providing adequate Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) on securing child and adolescent mental health services for children both this debate and his seat. The subject is of huge and young people with learning disabilities. importance to him, and he brought with him his invaluable Specialist training, the adequate resourcing of learning personal experience, as indeed did the hon. Member for disability specialist support and access to specialist Manchester, Withington (Mr Leech) and my hon. Friend in-patient support were also recommended. As we heard, the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). Those a specific indicator was recommended for local authorities personal experiences are crucial to the debate, as are the to rate themselves on their provision. As a result, specialist contributions from those who are experienced in the support for children with learning disabilities more provision of services. This debate is vital, and I will than doubled between 2005 and 2007. In 2010, two ensure that all the representations that have been made thirds of primary care trusts rated themselves four out today are fed back into the policy process. Time is of four for their provision of CAMHS for children with short, but I will just say to the hon. Member for Worsley learning disabilities. Based on the improvements for and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who speaks for the children with learning disabilities made under Labour, I Opposition, that some of us were fortunate enough to urge the Government to commit themselves to achieving have listened to and participated in debates on the the same benefits in the coming months and years for Autism Act 2009, promoted by my right hon. Friend the children and young people with autism. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), as I shall speak briefly about early intervention. As was it made its passage through the previous Parliament. At said by my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and the time, there was an increasing dislike of and Galloway (Mr Brown) and my right hon. Friend the disillusionment with politicians, so I mention that measure Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith), putting support because it showed this place in its very best light. It was in place early makes a big difference in the long run. It about cross-party working and building a consensus. It can help to prevent difficulties from escalating into was a genuine attempt by Members from all parts of the mental health problems. Over recent years, there has House to work together to improve the lives of others—in been a strong focus on improving support for children this instance it was the lives of those with autism. I pay with autism and improving the emotional well-being of tribute to Angela Browning, the former Member for children with autism in schools. I hope that that continues. Tiverton and Honiton, who was sometimes a lone voice 125WH Child and Adolescent Mental Health 7 JULY 2010 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 126WH Services Services calling for services for people with autism. She, too, We must plan and build on the work that has been brought her own personal experiences to the debate done on integrating services so that local partnerships thereby helping to raise us to the next level. can work together to deliver what we want. It will I echo the comments made by the Minister of State, require incredible commitment from local NHS providers Department of Health, my hon. Friend the. Member to engage with the work force to resolve difficult issues for Sutton and Cheam (Mr Burstow), at the recent such as training and service design. Improving the reach National Autistic Society reception. He said that the and quality of child and adolescent mental health care standards of care highlighted by the society in its “You means looking carefully at the different services that Need to Know” report are unacceptable. He was grateful make up the whole picture. I am referring to universal to the society—as indeed we all are—for its tireless services that play a pivotal role in promotion for all campaigning, and was struck by the particular contribution children and young people; targeted services that provide of the young campaigners group. I am sure that he early interventions for vulnerable children and young would pay tribute to them were he able to be here today. people; and specialist services, which the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde mentioned, for young people The coalition’s programme for Government makes it with complex, severe or persistent needs. clear that we are committed to supporting the most vulnerable and to tackling health inequalities. There is strong consensus on what needs to be done to improve Dr Pugh rose— the emotional well-being and mental health of children and young people. More work is needed on prevention, Anne Milton: I am sorry, there is no time. I already early diagnosis and early intervention. Those are the have far too many questions to answer. If hon. Members key things that are needed by people with autism and feel that their questions have not be answered or addressed, mental health problems. We need better integrated working I urge them to write to me and I will make sure that we and more evidence-based approaches. The work force respond. must be developed, and, crucially, we must do more to tackle stigma for people not only with autism but with Barbara Keeley: When there have been a great number mental ill health. of questions, it is more usual for the Minister to agree to The National Advisory Council for Children’s Mental write to us rather than expect us to write to her. Health and Emotional Wellbeing report earlier this year reinforced the scale of that challenge. It called for Anne Milton: I am sorry for that error. I thought that action to strengthen leadership, build a confident and I said that I would write. I thank the hon. Lady for skilled work force, improve commissioning and ensure raising that. real participation by children and young people in service development. For me, commissioning is a vital I have only two minutes left. The hon. Member for part of that. It has never been done that well, but there Stalybridge and Hyde said that staff working in child is a general acceptance of the fact that if we improve and adolescent mental health services should have the commissioning, the services will then follow. As has necessary values, competences and skills. That is vital. been mentioned during this debate, there are examples The coalition document made it clear that we are committed of best practice, which we need to be able to transport to supporting the most vulnerable and to tackling health to other areas. We need to consider all those issues to inequalities, and we will make more announcements get the services that we want. about public health. Appropriate tier 4 child and adolescent The Government have also promised to deliver measures mental health services should be available to all children in “Fulfilling and rewarding lives: the strategy for adults who require them, including children with autism. There with autism in England”. There are many areas in are a number of other vital issues, including diagnosis which improvement in adult autism services will yield and transition. I am proud of my own field, which was benefits for children’s services, such as developing local highlighted by the previous Government, for some of autism teams, improving access to diagnosis, better the things that they achieved on transition. I should planning and better commissioning of services. As several also like to pay tribute to Sara Truman, who has done a hon. Members have said, raising awareness of the issue huge amount of work with the National Autistic Society. and improving skills in the work force should go much We have not touched on the health outcomes for wider than just those working in the autistic field, and people with autism and mental health problems, but if should include teachers and sports clubs and all those we look at them we will find that they are truly shocking. who are involved with young people. Parents and carers carry a huge burden. There are many Our focus must be on improving the quality of services issues that we have not covered, including respite and that we provide to all children. We must ensure that no research. We still do not understand why people get one suffers the indignities and difficulties that are sadly autism. We also need to look at those children who are all too common. I am referring to the frightened young not yet diagnosed. There are significant challenges that person who is restrained by police because crisis services will require real commitment and buy-in from the staff were not available; the child who feels isolated and who work hard in CAMHS across the country, but I am frustrated, only to find that health care staff are not greatly encouraged by the number of contributions here trained to help or able to understand them; the parents today and by the amount of expertise that is sitting who desperately want to see an improvement but feel let here. There is a role for Government to play. I hope that down by services which do not treat their children as hon. Members appreciate that we cannot provide all the people with individual needs; and parents who are answers— desperate, isolated and at the end of their tether. That is why it is so important to improve the standard of care Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair): Order. We must move across the board. on to the next debate. 127WH 7 JULY 2010 Court Closures (Yorkshire) 128WH

Court Closures (Yorkshire) link in place, and the court building itself is situated right next to the police station, with adjoining access to modern and recently refurbished cells. 4pm The utilisation rate in the two courts at Goole would Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): Thank you, be at 80% but for the fact that a number of meetings Mr Benton, for allowing me my first Westminster Hall and other hearings are held in court two. That utilisation debate on an issue that is of particular importance to rate compares with what we are told in the consultation my constituents in Goole. document is a relatively low utilisation rate of the Before I go any further, I just want to say that I courts at Beverley. I would like an assurance from the understand many of the pressures on Her Majesty’s Minister that the court at Goole is not being closed Courts Service, particularly given the fact that in the simply to solve that under-utilisation problem. last three years of the previous Government, magistrates Of course, there is also a huge issue relating to services received a 7.5% funding cut in the—[Interruption.] localism. As a coalition, we are committed to a localism agenda and I am increasingly concerned that, if we Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair): Order. Would Members should lose the court in Goole along with the magistrates leave Westminster Hall quietly, please? court in Selby, we will effectively be left with a justice “black hole” in our part of the country. Our court in Andrew Percy: As I was saying, Mr Benton, there was Goole deals with a number of family matters, which are a 7.5% cut in magistrates budgets, which occurred for best dealt with locally. As I said a few moments ago, the each of the three years before the general election. courthouse in Goole is situated next to the local police There is also a massive backlog in refurbishment and station, which itself was recently renovated at a cost of capital projects, which built up in HMCS in the previous £2 million. The cells at the police station were also few years. In Goole, that backlog stands at £80,000. I recently refurbished, at a substantial cost to the local could make some comments about the fact that it was a police authority. shame that in the run-up to the general election, when A review was undertaken of the court services in the Labour Ministers were heading to my constituency with East Riding of Yorkshire about 10 years ago. At that all sorts of blank cheques, they did not offer a blank time, our county lost the magistrates courts at Howden, cheque on court services. Pocklington, Brough, Driffield and Withernsea. We I want to confine most of my comments this afternoon were left with the court in Beverley—anyone who knows to the proposal to deal with the court at Goole. As I the geography of the East Riding of Yorkshire, as I have made clear to the Speaker’s Office, my hon. Friend hope hon. Members do, will know that Beverley is the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) will, roughly in the centre of the East Riding—and courts at with your permission, Mr Benton, take some of my the two extremes of the East Riding. One is in the east allotted time to speak about the closures in Selby. There at Bridlington and the other is in Goole, in the western is a proposal to close the county court in Goole and to part of the East Riding. Of course, we also have the merge the local justice areas, but that proposal is less magistrates court in the large city of Hull. controversial, and indeed it is something that the magistrates Little has changed in Goole or indeed in much of the in the Goole area do not oppose. East Riding since that review was undertaken, except There are a number of reasons why the magistrates that we have had an influx of immigration from eastern service in Goole should continue. Those reasons relate Europe, which—I must be careful with my wording—has to the efficiency of the court, which was shown by a presented the courts with certain issues. I would suggest review just 10 years ago, and to the cost implications for that that actually strengthens the case in favour of my constituents in the Goole area if the court should retaining our court in Goole. After the review 10 years close. The Goole magistrates court is administered within ago, the rural parts of the East Riding were left with the Humber and South Yorkshire region, which consists courts at Beverley, Bridlington and Goole. The arguments of the courts in the East Riding of Yorkshire, northern that are being used to close the court at Goole now are Lincolnshire and south Yorkshire. There is evidence exactly the same arguments that could be used in relation that the throughput of work at Goole is the second to the court at Bridlington, although there are no most efficient in the Humber and South Yorkshire proposals to change what is happening there—and I am grouping of magistrates courts. There is a very low not suggesting that we should save the court at Goole ineffective trial rate at Goole, and trials at Goole are and sacrifice the court at Bridlington. There is a strong listed much more quickly than in larger courts. The case to keep both courts. proposal is to move the work from Goole to a much The consultation document makes it very clear that larger court at Beverley. Breaches of court orders can be the court in Goole is administered from Beverley and dealt with very quickly at Goole. My own personal that legal advisers travel from Beverley to attend the view—and what I hoped was the view of the new court in Goole. The same administrative unit also covers Government—is that bigger is not always better when it the magistrates courts in Beverley and Bridlington. We comes to the delivery of services. in the Goole area are therefore a little confused as to The courts building at Goole is fully compliant with why the area is being treated differently from Bridlington, the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, which is made which is 22.5 miles away from Beverley, compared to clear in the consultation document about the proposed Goole, which is 28 miles away from Beverley. closure. There is a peppercorn rent for the facilities in If the closure of the court at Goole goes ahead, there Goole, and there is a 125-year lease for the building that will be massive cost issues. Goole is one of the most will not expire until 2130, so there will be no problems deprived areas in the East Riding, and on certain measures in relation to those running costs in the next few years. it is among the 10 most deprived areas in England. A There is also a modern prison and vulnerable witness high proportion of our residents are on low incomes or 129WH Court Closures (Yorkshire)7 JULY 2010 Court Closures (Yorkshire) 130WH in receipt of benefits, so I have a huge concern about the Although I understand that the consultation is ongoing, transport costs involved in getting to Goole from Beverley I would like to use this opportunity to put forward a if the closure goes ahead. There are not just the costs of case for retaining Selby magistrates court. witnesses to consider, but the costs of family members Both Selby and Goole magistrates courts are in vital who may wish to go and support people in court. positions, and the closure of either or both presents a There are no direct buses to Beverley from Goole. To real risk of what my hon. Friend referred to as a justice get to Beverley from Goole, someone would have to black hole in our local area. If Selby magistrates court take a public bus to Hull, in the process almost going is closed, the nearest courthouse for my constituents is past the magistrates court in Hull, before changing bus York, which will involve defendants and witnesses leaving to continue the journey up to Beverley. That journey the constituency to travel there. For my constituents in would be close to 40 miles in total, so the distance of the southern district of Selby and Ainsty, that is a 28 miles that was quoted in the consultation document particularly long journey. It is incredibly inconvenient only applies to those who have access to a vehicle. There to get to York using public transport, and it would be is a train service from Goole to Beverley but, equally almost impossible to arrive on time for an early morning bizarrely, the train service, too, passes through Hull hearing. From the south of my constituency—below before going on to Beverley. The cost of a return train the M62—there is no direct access to buses or trains to journey is £11.90 and travelling by bus from Goole to York and constituents would instead have to go via Beverley would take a minimum of 1 hour and 25 minutes, Selby or Leeds to travel to York magistrates court. involving the change in Hull that I have just mentioned, The Magistrates Association has specified that everyone so there would be huge costs for anybody who wants to should be able to reach their local magistrates court travel to Beverley from Goole via public transport. within an hour. For people in the south of my constituency, Furthermore, Beverley has some of the highest parking that will not be possible if the court in Selby is closed. I charges in the East Riding for anybody who wished to have been informed by the area director of Her Majesty’s drive there. Courts Service in north and west Yorkshire that no We must also consider the historical value of the HMCS staff are currently based at Selby magistrates court building at Goole. We are trying to build up court, and that it is now seen as a satellite court. awareness of the history and heritage of the town. The However, it would be preferable for court staff to travel court building is a late Victorian building, and one of from York to work, rather than to expect, hope and the oldest buildings in Goole. Although its historical assume that witnesses and defendants, particularly those value may not be much of an argument in the rationalisation from the south of my constituency, will make the extra of HMCS, its closure would have a huge impact on the journey to York magistrates court. regeneration of Goole. The building is particularly beautiful, The rolling monthly average percentage of courtroom and we are concerned about what would happen to it utilisation in Selby magistrates court was 60.6% in the should we lose the court. financial year 2009-10, which is just below the national I would like the Minister tell us if we can have a full average of 64%. Courtroom utilisation is defined as the breakdown of the running costs in 2009-10 of the court time a courtroom is used, against the hours that it is at Goole. Some broad figures are given in the consultation available for use. Given that the usage of Selby magistrates document, none of which tell us a great deal. I want to court is aligned with the national average, it does not know how those running costs were quantified and how make much sense that it is closed instead of other they compare with the running costs of the court at magistrates courts, such as those in Blandford, Bridlington. Cab the Minister also give us an assessment Bournemouth, Poole, Weymouth and Wimborne in Dorset. of the likely costs for justices of the peace and witnesses The overall reduction in work load in those courts led to travel to Beverley, and say what consideration has to a utilisation rate in Dorset in 2009-10 of just 38.8%, been given to diversifying work at Goole? I am not in which is almost half that of Selby. The situation is favour of someone being against something unless they similar in Lincolnshire; there are courts in Boston, have other solutions. Has any work been undertaken on Grantham, Lincoln, Skegness, and Spalding and courtroom bringing other services into the court at Goole, such as utilisation is just 37.2%. the tribunal service? Over the past 18 months, Selby magistrates court has The new coalition Government have made a commitment actually transferred certain motoring and trading standards to localism. I hope that in the 10 minutes in which I cases to, among other places, Northallerton magistrates have spoken, I have made a strong case for why we in court. Those courts were under threat of closure because the Goole area, on the edge of the East Riding, deserve of lack of work. Selby came under the threat of closure to be treated a little differently in the closure programme. in 2003, but—as is the case now—the proposal came up The East Riding is the biggest unitary authority in the against strong opposition from the Selby bench, and a country and the decisions made 10 years ago were made casting vote at the North Yorkshire magistrates court for very sensible reasons: to maintain one service in the committee decided the matter. centre and two on the extremes either side of the East Riding. With your permission, Mr Benton, I shall hand Is the Minister aware that after securing the future of over to my hon. Friend and colleague the Member for Selby magistrates court in 2003, substantial improvement Selby and Ainsty, who will no doubt wish to speak and remedial work was carried out on the courthouse, about the issues affecting Selby. which cost the taxpayer around £821,000? It was reopened in 2008 following that refurbishment. The overhaul included facilities for the disabled, which are not provided 4.10 pm in York. Selby is therefore the designated court for Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): I am grateful York’s disabled population. We also have vulnerable to my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole witness capabilities at Selby, such as a specialist court (Andrew Percy) for securing this Westminster Hall debate. for hearing domestic violence cases, and the technology 131WH Court Closures (Yorkshire)7 JULY 2010 Court Closures (Yorkshire) 132WH

[Nigel Adams] further in less time if they need to. More can be done to access justice online and via the telephone, which reduces to view CCTV evidence and to use video links for the circumstances in which a visit to court would be vulnerable witnesses. None of those facilities is provided necessary. at York magistrates court. We need some fresh thinking about the wider issue of By bringing York’s services up to the same standard access to local justice. We need to consider whether past as those in Selby the Minister would be creating more ideas about needing a court in every town are relevant expense for the taxpayer. It is estimated that an investment today or whether—as with almost every other aspect of of £170,000 would be needed to provide the facilities modern life—things can be done differently, and innovation required under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, and technology can be embraced to meet the needs of and which are currently available at Selby. The dock in modern society and ensure better access to justice. court two at York would also need refurbishment if the We are already doing a lot to improve the service decision to close Selby goes ahead. experienced by witnesses, defendants and other court There is a case for retaining Selby magistrates court users. We have increased access to online and telephone in light of the £821,000 recently spent and the special services. Currently 70% of money claims, and the vast facilities it offers. I fully appreciate the dire financial majority of possession actions are issued centrally via legacy that the previous Government have left behind electronic channels. People can pay fines online for and the need to make cost savings, but I would find it driving infringements, or for not paying their TV licence difficult to justify closure of a service that has recently on time. They can also pay off debts or court fees online cost the taxpayer almost £1 million. Selling off the using a wide variety of methods. We are improving the whole building would not realise anywhere near that availability of information provided on the web and sum. I urge the Minister to take those points into over the telephone from dedicated information centres. account during his consultation. That will allow front-line staff to focus on people who need to see a judge. We are increasing the use of video 4.16 pm link technology between prisons and courts, and piloting video links between police stations and courts. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Whenever possible, we need to support people to (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): I thank my hon. Friends the explore a variety of dispute resolution routes for family Members for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) and for and civil cases. Such routes are better for those involved Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) for contributing to the in cases that can be mediated, as they can avoid unpleasant debate. I compliment them on the quality and sincerity prolonged and expensive litigation. Such a situation is of their defence of their local courts. also better for the courts because it should reduce court I shall set out the Government’s position on the court time and overall costs. reform proposals, and provide some details about the We are exploring how local communities can support courts that currently sit in Goole and Selby. I shall also those charged with a minor offence before their criminality explain the reasoning behind the inclusion of those escalates. We are working closely with local support courts on the list of possible closures. agencies and networks to ensure that appropriate help is In my new role, I have taken the opportunity to visit available for people with multiple underlying problems courts and meet the staff, professional judiciary and that drive their offending behaviour. magistrates who work hard to deliver justice in communities The court reform consultation seeks views on the throughout England and Wales. I have been very impressed proposed closure of 103 magistrates courts and 54 county by all that I have seen so far. It is evident that courts are courts that are underused and have inadequate facilities. run by a dedicated partnership of Her Majesty’s Courts It began on 23 June and will run until 15 September. All Service staff and judiciary, and I am personally committed responses will be fully considered before decisions are to continuing to support their contribution to justice. made. The consultation will set out a sustainable What has also been clear in my first few weeks in arrangement of court services across England and Wales office is the country’s economic position, and the immediate to meet the needs of local communities and will allow need to take action to address the structural deficit. us to deliver services in the most efficient way. The Following the emergency Budget, my right hon. and proposals would achieve savings of £15.3 million a year learned Friend the Lord Chancellor outlined our plans in running costs and enable us to avoid a maintenance to consult on the closure of a number of courts, as well backlog costing £21.5 million. A further assessment will as to seek wider views on how court services could be be necessary of the savings that could be achieved and modernised. That is one strand of the Ministry of the value that could be released from disposal of the Justice’s plans to look critically and holistically at how properties. However, I appreciate that those are generalities. we deliver justice, and to think about how we continue My hon. Friends asked about the two magistrates to deliver those critical services in the future. We have courts in their constituencies. I have listened to what also announced plans to consider sentencing and legal they have said and will continue to listen to what they aid. and others say during the consultation. The Lord The decision to consult on the closure of courts was Chancellor’s decision on whether to close Goole and not taken lightly or in isolation. We know we cannot Selby magistrates courts will not be easy; nor will his deliver the quality of facilities the public rightly expect decisions on the other courts listed in the consultation. and deserve, because we are working out of too many Each decision is balanced against several factors, including courts. Our low utilisation rate—only 65% across England utilisation, maintenance costs and proximity to other and Wales—shows that we do not need the number of courts. My hon. Friends’ points are valid, but we have courts we currently have. Recent improvements in transport to look at each court’s work load in the context of local and communication links mean that people can travel justice across each area. 133WH Court Closures (Yorkshire)7 JULY 2010 Court Closures (Yorkshire) 134WH

Goole magistrates court has a low utilisation rate, as that people in the south of his constituency did not have it sits for less than a third of the available time. It sits in such good access. I encourage him to make that point in a local criminal justice board area whose overall utilisation the consultation. I was aware of the refurbishment of rate is low, which we consider does not deliver value for the Selby magistrates court, but I believe that there is money to taxpayers. Given that we know that there is so currently a backlog of maintenance work to the value little demand for a magistrates court in Goole, I find the of about £100,000. argument for investing considerable public spending Selby and York local justice areas already have joint there on backlog maintenance work of around £80,000 panels, so merging the two would simply formalise that difficult to make, especially as Beverley, where the work arrangement and reap the administrative benefits. I would move, is only 28 miles away and has ample understand that the closure of courts in several communities capacity to take on the additional work. will concern hon. Members and some of their constituents. With regard to the point my hon. Friend the Member I welcome views on the proposal, and they will be taken for Brigg and Goole made about distance, we consider a into account before decisions are made. However, I one-hour journey by public transport acceptable for want to make it clear that I believe that operating out of travel to court. Not many people are frequent users of around 530 court houses is unsustainable and does not magistrates courts. I assure him that we do not propose offer the taxpayer value for money. I reiterate the point closing the court in Goole only because of the performance that we need to think more widely than bricks and of the court in Beverley, but we must look at utilisation mortar when considering access to justice; we need to over the whole area. embrace in the justice sector many of the technological My hon. Friend asked why we do not close Bridlington advances that we take for granted in our work and magistrates court. The decision was taken by local social lives. management and took into account a range of aspects Another point I will address in the time remaining is to ensure sufficient capacity in the area, based on the the impact the proposals will have on local justice. That total number of courtrooms in each court. important point was picked up in different ways by Andrew Percy: On the point about people being within both my hon. Friends. My answer is that there absolutely an hour’s journey of the court, the figures I mentioned will not be an impact on local justice. The Government indicate that it would take at least an hour and 25 minutes remain committed to a system in which justice is done to travel by bus from Goole to Beverley, including a and seen to be done in the communities affected by change in Hull because there is no direct bus. Incidentally, crime. The quality of justice matters equally. It is not there is a direct bus service between Bridlington and assured simply by having a court building in each small Beverley, although I do not suggest the closure of town, as populations are more mobile and use more Bridlington. The figure of one hour and 25 minutes is a sophisticated communications than ever before. The minimum, and the journey time is more likely to be one speed with which cases are decided, the facilities we hour and 39 minutes. provide to meet the needs of all court users and the respect for the quality of our justice system must be as Mr Djanogly: My hon. Friend makes a fair and important, if not more important, than locality. The relevant point, which he should submit for consideration involvement of communities in the justice system is in the consultation. The original reason for the location absolutely key to that, both as magistrates and assistants. of many courts is that they were intended to be half an With more than 95% of criminal cases heard by magistrates, hour’s horse ride away from population centres. We there is no doubt about the scale of community involvement thought that a one-hour journey by public transport in justice. I will continue to support magistrates as the was probably more in tune with modern thinking. I bedrock of our justice system. I have held meetings with assure him that we will do our best to provide him with magistrates’ associations and individual magistrates, and information on running costs and the other statistics he will continue to do so to prove the Government’s support requested. Again, he should advise us in his response to for the magistracy. the consultation of any statistics he has. HMCS provided £21,000 of funding in 2009-10 for As Goole is the only magistrates court in the local magistrates in the community scheme run by the Magistrates justice area of Goole and Howdenshire, we propose Association. On community engagement, HMCS works that the three LJAs should merge to create a single with magistrates and other justice agencies to host entity for east Yorkshire, covering the whole of the east regular open days that provide local communities with riding. Relatively few magistrates sit at the three benches insight on how justice agencies work together to serve we propose to combine—only 95 in total. Combining the community, staging mock trials to encourage the three will provide a pool large enough to facilitate a understanding of the justice system. more efficient listing of work and reduce the amount of administrative work involved. There will also be advantages We want people to resolve civil disputes more quickly for magistrates, allowing them more flexibility in sittings and effectively. County courts, of course, are involved in and a wider variety of work. the proposals as well. Justice does not take place only in Although Selby magistrates court has good facilities, court; uncontested money and property disputes can be as my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty resolved through our online services, Money Claims said, it too is underused, sitting only around 60% of the Online and Property Claims Online. We are exploring time available. Like Goole, it sits in a local criminal ways of increasing the use of alternative dispute resolution justice board area that has a low overall utilisation rate. when it can provide more effective and satisfactory Selby benefits from being located only 15 miles from solutions than a day in court. York, which is capable of absorbing the work from The time is right to take a fresh look at the provision Selby and has good transport links to all parts of west of court services to meet the challenging and changing and north Yorkshire, although I believe my hon. Friend needs of the justice agencies and society. Work loads are questioned that in his earlier remarks. His point was falling in the magistrates courts and court time has been 135WH Court Closures (Yorkshire) 7 JULY 2010 136WH

[Mr Djanogly] Paediatric Cardiac Surgery saved by magistrates and court staff working together 4.30 pm with increased efficiency. An example is the success of Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to “Criminal justice: simple, speedy, summary”, which serve under your chairmanship, Mr Benton, and to speeds up the time from charge to disposal and drastically have secured this debate on the Government’s review of reduces the need for adjournment. We are developing children’s heart surgery. better ways of delivering justice and will continue to I am sure that Members on both sides of the House improve them. agree that children who need heart surgery should have the best-quality care. Outstanding treatment is provided in many parts of the country, including at the congenital heart centre at Glenfield hospital in my constituency. My first visit as the new Member of Parliament for Leicester West was to the centre. I met staff in the paediatric intensive care unit, which is the seventh busiest such unit in the country, and staff on the children’s ward and from the cardiac nurse liaison team, seeing for myself the excellent professional and high-quality care that they provide. I also talked to parents about their experiences, and they spoke about their shock at discovering that their child had a congenital heart problem, their fears about the operation and other procedures, and whether their child would survive. They talked about how they were coping with having a very sick child at the same time as holding down a job and looking after other children, particularly if they lived a long way from the hospital, as many of the parents do. Above all, however, they talked about the excellent care that they receive at Glenfield and about how the help and support from the doctors, nurses and other staff is second to none. I am proud to have Glenfield’s congenital heart centre in my constituency, and I express my gratitude to all the staff for their excellent work. Although excellent care is already available in many parts of the country, experts in children’s heart surgery have for some while argued that change is necessary, to ensure that all children get the highest-quality care. Those experts include the Royal College of Surgeons, the Society for Cardiothoracic Surgery, the national clinical director for children, young people and maternity services, and the NHS medical director. Children’s heart surgery is complex, and is becoming ever more sophisticated. Technological advances mean that care is becoming increasingly specialised, capable of saving more lives and improving outcomes for very sick children. Many clinicians, however, argue that services have grown up in an ad hoc manner and now need to be better planned to ensure that all care is safe and sustainable, and that surgeons need to treat sufficient children and have sufficient variety in their case load to be skilled and experienced enough to deliver care of the highest quality. They further argue that that is likely to require fewer and larger specialist centres. I have always believed that when changes in hospital services are necessary to improve patient care, we should have the courage to make them happen. I therefore welcome the review, which was initiated by the previous Government. However, we need to ensure that the right principles and criteria drive the review, the right balance is struck, the right weight is given to the different criteria and principles, and the views of parents and families are properly heard. The Government document “Children’s Heart Surgery: The Need for Change” sets out four key principles to guide the review: “High standards. All children in England who need heart surgery must receive the very highest standards of NHS care, 137WH Paediatric Cardiac Surgery7 JULY 2010 Paediatric Cardiac Surgery 138WH regardless of where they live… Personal service. The care that Another issue that the review must fully consider is every centre provides must be based around the needs of each access to care. “The Need for Change” says that most child and family… Local where possible. Other than surgery and parents would travel long distances to ensure that their interventional procedures all relevant treatment should be provided children got the best possible care. That is true. Parents as close as possible to where each family lives… Quality. Standards are being developed and must be met to ensure that services would travel to the ends of the earth if they had to. deliver the best care.” Many parents whose children need heart surgery are, I want to say more about those principles. My first however, already travelling very long distances. Glenfield’s point is about the number of surgeons and of patients centre serves the entire east midlands, with outreach required in each centre to ensure that all children receive clinics in Nottingham, Derby, Mansfield, Peterborough, the best possible care. “The Need for Change” stresses Boston, Grantham, Lincoln and Kettering. that each unit needs enough surgeons to provide care 24/7 and to avoid surgeon burn-out in this complex and Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): I congratulate demanding field. It questions whether units with two or my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I know that the fewer surgeons can achieve that goal, and states that time available is limited, but I wish to underline the four surgeons is “the magic number.” importance of the point that she has just made in relation to our own heart centre in Oxford. It is critically The document also emphasises that surgeons need to important that there is close liaison and consultation treat enough patients and have a sufficient variety of with the parents whose babies are affected and who are cases to get the skills and experience they need, and to campaigning to save the centres. ensure that junior doctors have the best training. I fully accept the review’s concerns about units with two or Liz Kendall: I agree absolutely with my right hon. fewer surgeons, but from talking to clinicians I understand Friend. Many parents and staff are rightly concerned that the clinical evidence on the optimum number of about the implications of travelling longer distances, surgeons and the precise number of patients a centre particularly in emergencies. should treat a year is the subject of some discussion, both in this country and internationally. I am a former director of the Ambulance Service Network, and I know that paramedics are highly trained The centre at Glenfield hospital provides care 24 hours professionals—increasingly to degree level—who can a day, seven days a week. It has three surgeons, treating provide lifesaving treatment for patients while taking about 300 cases a year. The staff in the centre are them to specialist centres further away, but that is not determined to continue to improve the quality of care always possible, and the review must thoroughly consider that they provide, and are planning to appoint a fourth the implications of further travel for the lives that could surgeon in the next few months and increase the number and will be saved. of operations to more than 400 a year. Nevertheless, Glenfield hospital and my local primary care trust are High-quality care is not just about standards of surgery, very clear about the fact that the centre already delivers the links with other specialisms or the ability to access high-quality, safe and sustainable care. planned and emergency care. A recent event organised to discuss children’s heart surgery in Leicester was Wider clinical issues also need to be considered by attended by more than 800 parents and former patients, the review. Many children who need heart surgery often and those present felt that many more people would have other complex conditions, so the review needs to have attended if the event had not been held mid-week consider the range of surgical and other specialties and during working hours. available in hospitals with children’s heart surgery units, and look at how they all link together. Glenfield deals The families said that the help and support that they with congenital heart defects in babies, and follows get from the nurses, doctors and other staff at Glenfield them through childhood and into adult life. Staff and are outstanding, and the key point that came up time patients say that that continuity of care is a crucial and again was the excellent communication and support factor in delivering high-quality, personalised services, provided by the centre. Parents spoke about how staff and it will become increasingly important as survival go the extra mile to explain diagnoses and procedures rates improve. simply and clearly, often at a frightening and worrying Glenfield is also the busiest of four ECMO centres time. Every child gets a diary that explains in a way the in the UK. ECMO—extra corporeal membrane whole family can understand what care they have received. oxygenation—allows blood that has been drained out It provides something for the children to look back at of a patient’s body to have the carbon dioxide removed when they are older. and oxygen added before being returned to the body, Parents said that the staff were like members of their thereby allowing the heart and lungs to rest and recover. own family; they could ring them day or night if they Because of its ECMO facility, Glenfield can provide had any concerns. That familiarity with individual patients complex thoracic, or chest, surgery in children, especially and families is crucial. All the studies by groups such as for those who also have cardiac problems, as well as the Picker Institute of patients’ experience of care prove cardiac surgery for children who have reduced heart or that individual, personalised care and communication lung function and who otherwise might not be able to are vital. One young man said that the staff knew him have heart surgery, or recover. as a person, not as just another case, and that he was Glenfield is the only centre in the country that provides worried that that would be lost in a larger unit or if his ECMO for patients of all ages, from newborns to care were split between outreach clinics and other centres. adults. It treated 180 patients last year, including 50 swine Families also spoke about the fantastic help they get flu patients. ECMO is provided by the same staff who from the Heartlink charity at Glenfield, which has work in the congenital heart centre, so if the centre raised money to provide accommodation so that parents closed, Glenfield would lose its ECMO service too—a can stay overnight with their children, a play area so service used by patients across the country. that brothers and sisters can play while families are 139WH Paediatric Cardiac Surgery7 JULY 2010 Paediatric Cardiac Surgery 140WH

[Liz Kendall] 4.44 pm The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon visiting the child, and day trips for the patients as they Burns): I congratulate the hon. Member for Leicester get older. Those wider aspects of care are vital to West (Liz Kendall) on securing this important debate parents and patients, but are barely mentioned in “The on the national review of paediatric cardiac surgery. I Need for Change”. I urge the Minister to ensure that pay tribute to the dedicated national health service staff the review has fully considered those issues when it who work in paediatric cardiac care. It goes without makes its recommendations. saying—hon. Friends will agree—that during the course The final factor that the review of children’s heart of their working day they do tremendous and fantastic surgery needs to take into account is affordability. It work looking after critically ill and vulnerable children. must be driven by the need to improve quality, not to As the hon. Lady said, this is a complex and cut costs, and, in these financially constrained times, it understandably emotional area. In 2008, the NHS must acknowledge that there will be costs associated management board asked the national specialised with changing children’s heart surgery in England. commissioning group to explore whether a reconfiguration of paediatric cardiac surgery services in England could Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): Like the hon. improve levels of safety and sustainability. There had Lady, I have visited the Glenfield centre, which is close not been a problem at a particular centre, but surgeons, to my constituency. As the parent of a healthy child, I other clinicians, parent groups and the media had raised felt humbled by the care that I saw there. The point that concerns over the risks posed by the unsustainable she is making about cost is important, because we nature of smaller surgical centres. appear to be achieving neither safer care—there has The national review aims to ensure that paediatric always been safe care—nor more efficient care. I understand cardiac services deliver the highest standard of care, that the reconfiguration would be very expensive, and regardless of where patients live or which hospital provides she speaks rightly about straitened economic circumstances their care. All 11 centres in England that currently at this time. provide paediatric cardiac surgery, including Glenfield Liz Kendall: I agree absolutely with the hon. Lady. hospital in Leicester, are being assessed as part of the The costs associated with changing children’s heart review. The objective of the review is not to close surgery centres include not just physically expanding a paediatric cardiac centres—I assure the hon. Lady that centre’s buildings, beds and equipment, but retraining this is not a cost-cutting exercise. staff. When I went to Glenfield, I was told that many of Surgery may cease at some centres, but they would the staff would not move if the centre were changed. It continue to provide specialist, non-surgical paediatric takes time and money to train new staff, particularly in cardiology services for their local population. The review such a specialised area, and the review must take that seeks to ensure that as much non-surgical care as possible into account when it makes its recommendations. is delivered as close as possible to the child’s home through the development of local paediatric cardiology Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab): I, too, networks. I emphasise that no recommendations have congratulate my hon. Friend on obtaining this timely yet been made about which centres should continue to debate and on how she is expressing her concerns. She undertake surgery. obviously has considerable understanding and experience Recommendations on future services will be published of and expertise in these matters. Will she join me in for the three-month consultation in the autumn this asking the Minister to give an assurance that cost will year. The trend in paediatric cardiac care is towards not be the overwhelming issue that drives the decisions, increasingly complex surgery, which requires large surgical and that the concerns, fears and wishes of parents and teams that provide sufficient capacity to train and mentor practitioners will be foremost in his consideration? the next generation of surgeons. The focus of the review is to develop services that are clinically appropriate, Liz Kendall: I very much agree with my hon. Friend. sustainable and safe. The review must not be driven by a desire to cut costs, As I said earlier, paediatric cardiac services are complex, and it must acknowledge that increased costs are likely and it has taken time to set up a transparent review with any change to services. structure that takes into account the views of patient I welcome the Government’s review of children’s and parent groups, and relevant professional societies. heart surgery and their objective of ensuring that all As part of the review, the commissioning group has children get the best quality care, but I urge the Minister held 10 stakeholder events. The invaluable contributions to ensure that the full range of clinical factors—not just from parents and NHS staff will inform future stages of the ratio of surgeons to patients—is taken into account the review process. as part of the review, in particular implications for The commissioning group has set a series of service accessing care, including in emergencies, and the knock-on standards, developed by experts, that take into account effects for other specialisms. I urge him to ensure that the contributions of parents and professionals. The other aspects of care that are critical to parents and standards cover the whole of paediatric cardiac services families, such as the quality of communication, and the and emphasise the need for networks of providers to wider facilities and support, are properly considered. ensure a coherent service for children and their families. I urge the Minister not to conduct the review on the The current centres have been asked to assess themselves basis of cutting costs—there will be costs associated against those standards, and an expert panel chaired by with any changes—and to ensure that the views of Professor Sir Ian Kennedy has visited and independently parents, other family members and former patients are assessed each centre. The standards will be subject to fully taken into account before recommendations are public consultation this autumn together with the made in the autumn. I look forward to his response. recommendations for change. 141WH Paediatric Cardiac Surgery7 JULY 2010 Paediatric Cardiac Surgery 142WH

I shall now deal with the standard for the numbers of The available research evidence suggests that larger procedures and of surgeons to which the hon. Lady surgical centres deliver better clinical outcomes. As referred. Questions have been raised about the evidence cardiac expertise is available round the clock, they can that underpins the standards for the minimum number perform a wider range of complex procedures, meaning of paediatric cardiac surgical procedures per year, and fewer transfers between centres. Larger centres can still for minimum staffing levels. The recommended level of provide a personalised service. The service standards activity—between 400 and 500 procedures a year—is make it clear that tailoring services to the needs of each based on the level needed to provide good quality care child is critical. That is an extremely important factor around the clock while enabling ongoing training and that I know the hon. Member for Leicester West mentoring of new surgeons. The professional consensus understands and accepts fully. is that having four surgeons in each centre should I also assure the hon. Lady that any changes to local enable services to avoid the risk of surgeons performing health services will not be driven from the top down. only a small number of some of the more complex The review has strong support from external organisations. procedures, which may not be enough to maintain their It has been instigated at the request of parent and skills. Transforming a service from adequate to optimal patient groups, clinicians working in the service and requires sufficient volume, expertise and experience to professional associations, including the Children’s Heart develop what Sir Bruce Keogh calls “accomplished Federation, the Royal College of Surgeons, the Royal teams”. College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of Nursing, the British Congenital Cardiac Liz Kendall: Will the Minister provide the source for Association and the Society for Cardiothoracic Surgery the recommendation of four surgeons and 400 to in Great Britain and Ireland. It is important to understand 500 patients a year? Which peer-reviewed journal provides that any recommendations on the future number and the clinical evidence for that? location of surgical centres will be made not by any central body but by the 10 specialised commissioning Mr Burns: As I said a minute ago, that recommendation groups working with local NHS commissioners. The is the consensus within the professional bodies. However, review will consider access to services for the whole I am more than happy to give the hon. Lady a commitment country. that I will write to her after this debate to elaborate, providing as much extra detail as I can, if she believes The national specialised commissioning group was that will be helpful. asked to lead the review because of its co-ordinating role across the 10 specialised commissioning groups. I Turning to the other criteria, the review will also take am sure that the hon. Lady will agree that that was the account of surgical centres’ physical location relative to most sensible approach to take when the review was others and the impact of reconfiguration on other devised and set up just over two years ago in 2008. The important services, including the highly regarded ECMO group was ideally positioned to engage with commissioners or total life support service at Glenfield hospital in the and clinicians from across the country. hon. Lady’s constituency, which she described with such eloquence in her remarks. The final part of the I reiterate that the review is being undertaken in review will involve centres’ ability to attract key clinical response to the concerns of parents and professionals staff and their families. I hope I can reassure the hon. about the future capacity and capability of paediatric Lady that transportation options and travel distances cardiac services. It will be an open process; I assure the will be evaluated, including travel times specifically. The hon. Lady that the outcomes are not predetermined. It Paediatric Intensive Care Society has advised on the is a genuine review seeking genuine answers in order to issue, and we continue to investigate and seek advice. I maintain the highest standards of quality in a specialised appreciate fully the importance of the issue and the and difficult area of patient care. The national specialised concern that it causes many families. commissioning group will set up a consultation process on its recommendations and standards this autumn. We Nicky Morgan: Will the review also consider the must wait and see what the review says and then go impact on other services? For example, at Glenfield, through the consultation process, during which anyone there are two intensive care units for children in the city, will be able to input their thoughts, recommendations, and I understand that one team covers both. If the comments, criticisms or praises of the review’s findings, centre were to be closed—this might also apply to other before any final decisions are taken. centres—it might destabilise other services within the I thank our external partners and their patients for hospital. their input to the review so far. I find it encouraging that the review has broad support across the board. As Mr Burns: The short answer is that I cannot make the hon. Lady will accept, children deserve the best that commitment myself. As my hon. Friend will appreciate, possible care. The Government are determined to provide the review is independent and will be carried out at the best paediatric cardiac care possible after the review arm’s length from the Department of Health and Ministers. and consultation processes have been concluded and I do not have a role, and it would not be correct for me the final decisions reached. to seek to interfere in the process. However, having said Question put and agreed to. that, I am confident that my hon. Friend’s point will be considered as part of the review, because it will be comprehensive and across the board, considering all aspects of this highly specialised and important health 4.57 pm care provision. I hope that reassures her. Sitting adjourned.

11WS Written Ministerial Statements7 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS

The coalition agreement sets out this Government’s Written Ministerial intention to give heads and teachers the powers they need to ensure discipline in the classroom and promote Statements good behaviour. It also sets out the Government’s intention to give anonymity to teachers accused by pupils and to take other measures to protect against false accusations. Wednesday 7 July 2010 Teachers should feel confident in exercising their authority, and pupils should not have to suffer disruption to their education caused by the poor behaviour of others. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Further to my reply in Education questions on 7 June, I can confirm that we will take steps to strengthen teachers’ powers to search pupils. We intend to introduce Ordnance Survey (Performance Targets) regulations to add personal electronic devices (mobile phones, iPods and personal music players); pornography; fireworks; cigarettes and other tobacco; and “legal highs” The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for to the list of items for which teachers can search. Our Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): My intention is for these regulations to come into effect hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, from this autumn. In the next education Bill, we intend Baroness Hanham CBE, has made the following written to give teachers a more general search power covering ministerial statement: any item which may cause disorder or pose a threat to Ordnance Survey will report externally against a set of agency safety. performance monitors as required of all Executive agencies in Government: We will also take steps to reduce the bureaucratic burden on schools when giving pupils detentions. We To achieve an operating profit before exceptional items, interest and dividends of £11.8 million for the financial year intend to repeal the legislation that requires schools to 1 April 2010 to 31 March 2011. give parents 24 hours written notice of detentions outside Some 99.6% of significant real-world features greater than school hours. Schools will be free to determine and six months old are represented in the database. publicise their own rules on notice for detentions. As a To achieve a free cash flow before exceptional items of result, teachers should be able to deal with misbehaviour £19.6 million for the financial year 1 April 2010 to 31 March on the day it occurs. 2011. We will issue much shorter and clearer guidance To continue to reduce the underlying cost base of the business which explicitly states that teachers can physically remove by on average 5% per annum measured against a baseline of disruptive children from class and prevent them from 2008-09 costs. leaving a room in situations where this is necessary to To achieve a customer index score of at least 80%. maintain order. We will seek to ensure that prosecutors, These targets reflect Ordnance Survey’s continuing commitment those exercising disciplinary powers and those determining to customers, to implementing the business strategy announced in complaints against teachers are aware of the new guidance. April 2009, to maintaining and delivering intelligent geographic We are determined that teachers should have the protection information to all users, and to offering improved value for money for all, as well as a commitment to Government policies. they need and we will take all necessary steps, legislating further if necessary, to ensure this happens. Finally, we will give teachers the strongest possible EDUCATION protection from false accusations. We will give anonymity to teachers facing accusations from pupils. This Government want to put an end to rumours and malicious gossip Behaviour and Discipline in Schools about innocent teachers which can ruin careers and even lives. We will be announcing further measures in due course, The Minister of State, Department for Education including measures to tackle bullying, head teachers’ (Mr Nick Gibb): I would like to announce to the House powers to exclude children and the reform of alternative new measures to be introduced to tackle behaviour and provision. discipline in schools. All pupils should show respect and courtesy towards teachers, towards other staff and towards The changes announced today are the first step in a each other. Head teachers help to create that culture of programme of reform. We will be consulting with teachers respect by supporting their staff’s authority to discipline about taking forward these measures and the case for pupils. The role of the Government is to give schools further reform. We will take the necessary action to the freedom they need to provide a safe and structured ensure that schools can bring order and discipline to environment in which teachers can teach and children every classroom so that all children are able to achieve can learn. to the best of their ability.

3P Petitions7 JULY 2010 Petitions 4P

delays to necessary medical procedures; further declares Petition that the number of intensive care beds available was insufficient to meet the needs of the patients and to Wednesday 7 July 2010 allow the necessary time for rehabilitation; and further declares that the training given to nurses caring for patients was inadequate. PRESENTED PETITION The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Petition presented to the House on Tuesday 6 July but Commons urges the Secretary of State for Health to not read on the Floor take steps to increase the number of intensive care beds Intensive Care (West Sussex) available; to ensure that care for patients is available 24 hours a day and 7 days a week; and to improve the The Petition of Mrs J Puttick and residents of the training offered to nurses who care for multiple organ Bognor Regis and Littlehampton constituency and others, failure patients who have been transferred from intensive Declares that the Petitioners believe that care received care units. by Mr Ken Puttick at Worthing Hospital, West Sussex, And the Petitioners remain, etc. was appalling and inadequate; further declares that consultants were not available at weekends, leading to [P000843]

251W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 252W

Written Answers to Level 1 and 2 Level 3 and 4 Repair Repair (Minor (Extensive Service and repair and Storage Questions Vehicle repair) overhaul) (Reserve)

Trojan 9 0 0 Wednesday 7 July 2010 Viking1 54211 1 The figures for Viking are at 5 July 2010 The numbers of vehicles in level 1 and 2 repair will HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION vary significantly from day to day. Most vehicles in this category will normally be back in service in 24 to 1 Parliament Street: Air Conditioning 48 hours. Army Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, answering for the House of Commons Commission what steps the House authorities (a) have recently Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence taken and (b) plan to take to improve the air conditioning what estimate his Department has made of the cost of within 1 Parliament street; and if he will make a statement. adding an additional brigade to the army. [4553] [6230] Nick Harvey: At this time no estimate has been made Sir Stuart Bell: The Parliamentary Estates Directorate within the Department of adding an additional brigade (PED) has recently upgraded the building management to the Army. To provide an indicative costing would be system at 1 Parliament street, allowing improved monitoring unrealistic since it would depend on what role any such and control of the air conditioning plant and equipment brigade was designed for. There are significant differences serving the building. PED also routinely carries out in the composition of a Heavy Brigade as opposed to maintenance of the building’s ventilation and cooling a Light Brigade or an Airborne Brigade in terms of systems. manpower, training, equipment and accommodation. PED has commissioned a feasibility study into all of For this reason it is not possible to give an indicative the mechanical and electrical services in the block of figure. buildings fronting onto Parliament street. The feasibility The Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) study will include options for improving the ventilation will bring defence policy, plans, commitments and resources and cooling systems within 1 Parliament street and will into balance, and produce over time a transformative be linked to works to alter the windows, in order to change to British defence. improve energy efficiency and provide improved blast At the heart of Defence contribution to the SDSR protection. The associated report is due for completion will be a thorough examination of our force structure, in the autumn of 2010. looking at the overall shape, size and role of armed forces personnel and MOD civil servants, including the reserve forces. Depending on the outcome of the SDSR, some capabilities may be reduced in order to enhance DEFENCE others and provide the most effective suite of measures Armoured Fighting Vehicles for defending the UK’s interests. This will not be a salami-slicing review but one which David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for provides coherent long-term policy direction and takes Defence how many armoured vehicles are (a) deployed the tough choices required to produce the armed forces in theatre, (b) under repair and (c) held in reserve. and wider defence capabilities the country will need in [5863] the decades ahead. Nick Harvey: I am withholding information on the Departmental Official Cars number of vehicles deployed in Afghanistan for operational security reasons. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence The number of armoured vehicles under repair, not which Ministers in his Department have used an allocated including those in Afghanistan, and held in reserve as at ministerial car to travel between the Department and 27 June are shown in the following table: the House of Commons on each day since 21 May 2010. [5542] Level1and2 Level 3 and 4 Repair Repair Mr Robathan: None. (Minor (Extensive Service and repair and Storage Departmental Responsibilities Vehicle repair) overhaul) (Reserve) AS90 25 9 48 Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Challenger 2 40 19 191 (1) what the roles and responsibilities are of the Minister CRAARV 15 14 14 for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans; [5772] Warrior 50 165 193 (2) on what matters (a) within and (b) outside his Bulldog 43 52 290 listed ministerial responsibilities the Minister for Defence CVR(T) 83 151 281 Personnel, Welfare and Veterans answers questions for Titan 8 0 0 written answer. [6357] 253W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 254W

Mr Robathan: The roles and responsibilities of my Number of sorties post are similar to those fulfilled by the hon. Member when he was a Defence Minister. I have responsibility 2005 28 for service personnel, civil servants and the wider service 2006 28 family including reservists, cadets, ex-service personnel 2007 17 and families. This includes pay, allowances, entitlements 2008 25 and welfare. 2009 11 I am also responsible for: estates matters; climate 2010 (until 31 March) 3 change and environmental issues; and, commemorative issues and medals. I am withholding the number of sorties the Nimrod MR2 has flown in support of counter-narcotics operations In addition, I am responsible for the following agencies: as its disclosure would, or would be likely to, prejudice The Service Personnel and Veterans Agency; the Pay, the capability, effectiveness or security of our armed People and Pensions Agency; the Ministry of Defence forces. I am also withholding information on anti-submarine Police and Guarding Agency; the Defence Vetting Agency; warfare operations for reasons of national security. the Hydrographic Office; and the Meteorological Office. I respond to written parliamentary questions (WPQs) RAF St Athan on all of these issues. When the appropriate Minister is unavailable, however, the Ministry of Defence makes Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State arrangements for another available Minister to approve for Defence what estimate he has made of the cost of and sign off WPQs to ensure that they are answered the proposed private finance initiative project for the promptly. Engineering Training School at RAF St Athan over the next 30 years. [5375] HMS Sultan Nick Harvey [holding answer 5 July 2010]: The current estimate of the cost of Defence Training Rationalisation Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for Package 1 project is £14 billion. This represents the cost Defence if he will commission an assessment of the for the provision of the construction of new facilities at social and economic effects on Gosport of the proposed St Athan and the whole operating costs for the entire transfer of HMS Sultan to South Wales. [5359] 30 year life of the project. These operating costs include staff, catering and maintenance costs, the majority of Nick Harvey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer which we already carry today. given to her on 15 June 2010, Official Report, column 350W, by my hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology (Peter Luff). It is too early to consider commissioning an assessment. ATTORNEY-GENERAL Corruption Military Bases: Aviation Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Attorney-General Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for whether the Serious Fraud Office plans to increase the Defence if he will review the role of military airfields in resources it uses to investigate and prosecute international defending the UK. [5848] corruption; and if he will make a statement. [5606]

Nick Harvey: The Strategic Defence and Security The Solicitor-General: The SFO recognises the Review is looking at a wide range of options to ensure importance of this work and continues to investigate that the Department has the right balance of resources and prosecute serious and complex international corruption to meet its commitments, and that the Defence Budget on a case by case basis. Resources will continue to be is spent as efficiently, effectively and economically as allocated according to business needs. possible. Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Attorney-General Nimrod Aircraft how many reports of UK involvement in foreign bribery have been reported by each UK overseas post to the Serious Fraud Office. [5610] Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many sorties the Nimrod MR2 has flown The Attorney-General: The Serious Fraud Office regularly in support of (a) counter-narcotics, (b) search and receives reports from other Government Departments research and (c) anti-submarine warfare operations as part of its investigations, and records indicate that 14 from RAF bases in the UK in each year since 2001. reports were received from the Foreign and Commonwealth [6305] Office since 2005.

Nick Harvey: The Nimrod MR2 was based at RAF Departmental Official Cars Kinloss until it went out of service in April this year. The number of search and rescue sorties flown by MR2 Mr Bain: To ask the Attorney-General which Ministers aircraft from RAF Kinloss in each year since 2005 is in the Law Officers’ Departments have used an allocated provided in the following table. Information prior to ministerial car to travel between the Departments and 2005 is not held centrally and could be provided only at the House of Commons on each day since 21 May disproportionate cost. 2010. [5538] 255W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 256W

The Solicitor-General: Exact records are not maintained Financial year Total on day to day usage of ministerial cars; however, every effort is made to minimise their use. Whenever possible 2003-04 18,385 the Law Officers walk between the Department and the 2004-05 18,142 House of Commons. The car is only used when there is 2005-06 31,452 a clear business need; normally for timing or security 2006-07 23,005 reasons. 2007-08 42,210 2008-09 41,362 Law Officers 2009-10 36,968

Graham Evans: To ask the Attorney-General how The National Fraud Authority (NFA): much the Law Officers’ Departments spent on catering Since its launch in 2008 the NFA has spent £4,000 in each year from 1997 to 2009. [4859] and £4,916.37 on catering in 2008-09 and 2009-10 The Solicitor-General: The amount spent on catering respectively. by the Law Officers’ Departments from 1997 to 2009 is The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS): outlined as follows. The CPS does not hold full central records of spending Treasury Solicitors Department (Tsol): on catering throughout the service for all the years in question. The information sought could be obtained Spending by Tsol on catering for the financial years only at disproportionate cost. However, it is possible to from 1998-2010 is detailed in the following table. The provide a breakdown of CPS HQ costs relating to the data also covers the Attorney-General’s Office and canteen subsidy as far back as 2003-04. In addition, HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate for whom central records of catering expenditure are held for the Tsol has financial responsibility. Revenue and Customs Prosecution Office (RCPO), who The increase in expenditure in the year ending 31 March merged with the CPS in January 2010, since 2005-06. 2006 and onwards is accounted for by the creation of in-house facilities when Tsol relocated in August 2005. CPS HQ catering costs—canteen subsidy The expenditure from that date includes an operating Canteen subsidy (£) subsidy paid to support the staff cafeteria and the cost 2003-04 117,274 of refreshments provided at training events, which had 2004-05 130,206 previously been accounted for as training costs. Since 2005-06 123,488 May 2006 the service has been shared with other building 2006-07 94,321 users who meet their share of the costs. 2007-08 127,234 It is not possible to provide the information for 2008-09 130,074 earlier years without incurring a disproportionate cost. RCPO catering costs £ Expenditure (£)

1998-99 7,221.54 2005-06 5,956 1999-2000 9,809.84 2006-07 8,460 2000-01 10,847.66 2007-08 6,420 2001-02 11,814.39 2008-09 14,550 2002-03 18,368.24 2003-04 18,673.70 2004-05 37,383.31 SCOTLAND 2005-06 123,768.07 2006-07 146,452.81 Departmental Training 2007-08 147,435.10 2008-09 110,800.33 Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland 2009-10 108,053.37 what training has been provided for Ministers in his Department since the formation of the present administration; and at what cost. [6456] The Serious Fraud Office (SFO): The Serious Fraud Office does not provide in house David Mundell: I attended an induction workshop for catering services, but does on occasion provide hospitality new Ministers, organised by the National School for for external meetings, and refreshments for internal Government. There was no charge to the Scotland meetings where external visitors are present. The amount Office for the workshop. spent on this is detailed in the following table. Departmental Travel

Financial year Total David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for 1997-98 16,326 Scotland what the cost to the public purse was of first 1998-99 14,650 and business class travel paid for by his Department in 1999-2000 13,869 2009-10. [6104] 2000-01 12,126 2001-02 18,984 Michael Moore: The Scotland Office does not separately 2002-03 20,287 record information and expenditure on first class travel. It is Scotland Office policy not to use first class travel 257W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 258W for officials. All ministerial travel is undertaken by the Infrastructure Planning Commission most efficient and cost effective way, in accordance with the Ministerial Code, a copy of which is available in the Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Library of the House. Communities and Local Government pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 29 June 2010, Official Report, columns 35-6WS, on planning reform, what mechanisms he plans to put in place to ensure that no COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT application lodged with the Infrastructure Planning Commission will take longer to consider under the (a) Departmental Conferences transition and (b) new arrangements than under the current system. [5994] Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate Greg Clark: During the transitional period before he has made of expenditure by his Department and new legislation can be brought into effect, the existing its predecessors on (a) organisation of and (b) provisions of the Planning Act 2008 which set the attendance at conferences in each year since 1997. timetable for the examination, recommendations and [6116] decision making functions, will continue to apply. Robert Neill: The Department’s expenditure on We intend that the new arrangements will also include conference (a) organisation and (b) attendance for the a statutory timetable for these functions, which allows last four financial years is as follows: no longer than is currently permitted for them to be carried out. £ In addition, by requiring National Planning Statements Conference Conference to be ratified by Parliament, the scope for judicial organisation attendance Totals review of planning decisions for major infrastructure projects will be reduced. 2006-07 1,450,377 574,723 2,025,100 2007-08 1,836,863 909,582 2,746,444 2008-09 1,513,585 623,727 2,137,312 Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 2009-10 1,292,495 673,348 1,965,843 written ministerial statement of 29 June 2010, Official Totals 6,093,320 2,781,379 8,874,699 Report, columns 35-36WS, on planning reform, what Figures for earlier years could be supplied only at timetable he has set for abolition of the Infrastructure disproportionate cost. Planning Commission. [6000]

Fire Services: Pensions Greg Clark: We anticipate that primary legislation to abolish the Infrastructure Planning Commission will be Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for brought forward in the current Session of Parliament Communities and Local Government what recent and abolition of this body will be put into effect as soon representations he has received on potential changes to as it is possible to do so following the passage of the fire service pensions. [6238] legislation.

Robert Neill: No recent representations have been Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for received. Communities and Local Government pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 29 June 2010, Official Housing and Planning Delivery Grant: Tower Hamlets Report, columns 35-36WS, on planning reform, what legislative proposals he plans to bring forward to Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for establish the Major Infrastructure Planning Unit. Communities and Local Government how much [6001] Housing and Planning Delivery Grant the London borough of Tower Hamlets has received from the Greg Clark: As the written ministerial statement of Government in each year since its inception; and how 29 June 2010, Official Report, columns 35-36WS, makes much will be made available in 2010-11. [5838] clear, we intend to establish a major infrastructure planning unit as part of the Planning Inspectorate. Robert Neill: Housing and Planning Delivery Grant Because it will be established in an existing agency of commenced in 2008-09 and London borough of Tower Communities and Local Government, its establishment Hamlets received the following awards: will be effected through administrative rather than statutory processes. HPDG Award (£) The Government will bring forward primary legislation to effect the abolition of the Infrastructure Planning 2008-09 1,683,359 Commission in the current Session of Parliament, paving 2009-10 2,326,542 the way for the major infrastructure planning unit to be There will be no Housing and Planning Delivery established. Grant allocations in 2010-11 as detailed in the announcement on the £1.166 billion Local Government Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for contributed to the £6.2 billion cross government savings Communities and Local Government pursuant to the in 2010-11. written ministerial statement of 29 June 2010, Official 259W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 260W

Report, columns 35-6WS, on planning reform, what This figure is published in Table 6.2a (Page 129) of estimate he has made of the cost of abolishing the the Local Government Financial Statistics England Infrastructure Planning Commission. [6002] No.20 2010, a copy of which is available in the Library of the House or on Communities and Local Government Greg Clark: We expect the abolition of the Infrastructure website at: Planning Commission to save taxpayers’ money as the http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/ IPC has not had time to build up significant liabilities. statistics/financialstatistics202010 I have asked the chief executive of the IPC and the Planning Inspectorate to work together to ensure that these savings are realised. NORTHERN IRELAND Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of the costs incurred as a result of the Departmental Conferences abolition of the Infrastructure Planning Commission. [6132] Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what estimate he has made of his Robert Neill: We expect the abolition of the Infrastructure Department’s expenditure on (a) organisation of and Planning Commission to save taxpayers’ money as the (b) attendance at conferences in each year since 1997. IPC has not had time to build up significant liabilities. [6110] I have asked the chief executive of the IPC and the Planning Inspectorate to work together to ensure that Mr Paterson: On 12 April 2010 the Northern Ireland these savings are realised. Office (NIO) transferred responsibility for Policing and Justice to the Northern Ireland Assembly. Comparable Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for figures for the Department as it is now configured are Communities and Local Government when he plans to not available. Since 12 April the Department has incurred bring forward legislative proposals to abolish the no expenditure in this area. Infrastructure Planning Commission. [6134]

Greg Clark: The Government will bring forward Departmental Equality primary legislation to effect the abolition of the Infrastructure Planning Commission in the current session Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for of Parliament. Northern Ireland how much his Department has spent (a) in total and (b) on staff costs on promoting Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for equality and diversity in each of the last three years for Communities and Local Government what plans he which figures are available; and how many people are has to establish the Major Infrastructure Planning employed by his Department for this purpose. [5913] Unit; what its (a) proposed annual budget and (b) location will be; and how many staff it will employ. Mr Paterson: On 12 April 2010 the Northern Ireland [6135] Office (NIO) transferred responsibility for Policing and Justice to the NI Assembly. Comparable figures from Greg Clark: The Major Infrastructure Planning Unit previous years for the Department as now configured will be established to operate as a unit within the are not available. Planning Inspectorate. (a) As part of the contribution towards the efficiency drive The Northern Ireland Office, as now configured, has across Government Departments and their arm’s length bodies one member of staff who spends approximately 25% and agencies, running cost for the period 2010-11 has been of her time on promoting diversity and monitoring reduced by 10.5% to £6,265 million. Budgets for future years have performance at an estimated annual cost of £10,000. not been agreed. (b) The Major Infrastructure Planning Unit will be based in Departmental finance Bristol as part of the Planning Inspectorate. (c) The number of staff in the Major Infrastructure Planning Unit will vary according to number of planning applications it is Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern considering. Ireland which Northern Ireland Executive departments will have their levels of funding under the block grant Local Government: Manpower protected. [5338]

Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. Communities and Local Government what percentage The Government announced in the June 2010 Budget of local government expenditure in England was for that they are committed to protecting health and overseas staffing costs in the latest period for which figures are aid in the Spending Review. Health is a devolved programme available. [6513] so the Northern Ireland Executive will benefit from health being protected in England through the operation Robert Neill: The percentage of local government of Barnett formula consequentials in the spending review. total service expenditure in England which was attributable However it is for the Northern Ireland Executive to to employee costs was 49%, in 2008-09, which are the make its own decisions on how to allocate its block latest figures available. budget in Northern Ireland. 261W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 262W

Departmental Lost Property Departmental Manpower

Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Northern Ireland what property has been recorded as Olympics, Media and Sport how much his Department (a) lost and (b) stolen from the Department in the last has spent on human resources in each year since 1997. 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the [5109] cost of the replacement of that property. [5975] Mr Jeremy Hunt: The cost of the Human Resource Mr Paterson: There have been no items recorded as Team in DCMS for the last two years can be seen in the lost or stolen in the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) in following table: the last 12 months. Departmental Training £ Description 2008-09 Spend 2009-10 Spend

Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Staff Costs 851,315.39 755,714.25 Ireland what training has been provided for Ministers in Non-Staff Costs 90,989.86 51,778.87 his Department since the formation of the present Annual Total 942,305.25 807,493.12 administration; and at what cost. [6458] Prior to 2008-09, the Human Resources Team were Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend the Minister of State part of a larger team including staff supporting the attended a ministerial induction workshop on 27 May Department’s IT system and estate management. arranged by the National School for Government on behalf of No. 10 and the Cabinet Office. There was no Costs relating to the Human Resources Team could charge for this course. be identified only at disproportionate cost. Olympic Games 2012

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the contribution Departmental Lost Property of the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport of 24 June 2010, Official Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Report, column 150WH, on local media, what definition Olympics, Media and Sport what property has been of the term multi-platform, multi-media ecosystem recorded as (a) lost and (b) stolen from the Department he uses. [6342] in the last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost of the replacement of that property. [5978] Mr Vaizey: A “thriving, multi-platform local media ecosystem” is defined as local media businesses, operating John Penrose: I refer the hon. Member to the answer on a commercially sustainable basis, continuing to innovate given by the hon. Member for Bradford South (Mr to produce local content across a range of platforms Sutcliffe) to the then Member for Glasgow East (John (such as the internet, television, radio and print), and Mason) on 17 March 2010, Official Report, column 889W. potentially syndicating the delivery of this content. Additionally, during the last 12 months the following items were recorded as lost or stolen. Public Libraries: Information Services

Estimated cost Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for of replacement Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) what steps he Item Date Lost/Stolen (£) is taking to encourage community libraries to provide Memory Stick September Lost 41 access to and information on local authority services; 2009 [4759] Mobile Phone May 10 Stolen 150 (2) if he will encourage libraries located in town Blackberry May 10 Stolen 200 centres to match their opening times to those of peak Blackberry May 10 Stolen 164 shopping times. [4762] Mobile Phone June 10 Lost 150 Mr Vaizey: People’s expectations of their library In the last 12 months the following work of art has services have changed and local authorities need to be also been reported missing from the Government Art responsive to the needs and wants of their customers. Collection and is as yet un-located. Responsibility and accountability for day to day management of individual library services, including Estimated cost of replacement opening hours and providing local authority information, Item Date Status (£) is devolved to local authorities and their communities. However, DCMS is committed to helping local government Henry Powle April 10 Not found at 100 find solutions to the problems it faces. A new support (1630-1692) inventory Speaker of the check at Royal programme led by the Museums, Libraries and Archives House of Courts of Council and Local Government Association Group will Commons and Justice support councils, especially those who want to work in Master of the partnership with each other, to drive efficiencies and Rolls, engraving deliver an effective service. The learning and experience after Godfrey Kneller from that programme will be shared widely across the sector. 263W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 264W

TRANSPORT Leamside Railway Line Airport Economic Regulation Bill Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has for the future of John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for the Leamside Line in County Durham and Tyne and Transport how many of his Department’s officials are Wear; and if he will make a statement. [6512] working on preparations for the Airport Economic Regulation Bill. [5027] Mrs Villiers: There are no plans at present to re-open the Leamside Line. However, there are no plans to Mrs Villiers: There are currently around 16 Department dispose of the land occupied by the line. The possibility for Transport officials whose work includes contributing for re-opening in the long term remains open, if running to aspects of preparing the Airport Economic Regulation trains on this route is shown to be the best way of Bill. This includes policy advisers, lawyers and economists. meeting regional and local transport needs. Aviation: Passengers Merchant Shipping: Registration Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his Department’s latest projections are of air David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of the likely passenger numbers over the next 30 years. [4988] effects on the number of merchant naval ships registered Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport regularly in the UK on the requirement to pay wages to non-British publishes forecasts of the number of air passengers sailors at the level of the national minimum wage. [6034] using UK airports. It did so most recently in “UK Air Mike Penning: The previous Government commissioned Passenger Demand and CO2 Forecasts”, published in January 2009. The Department keeps its forecasts under a review into the practice of differential pay for seafarers review and will publish updated forecasts as appropriate. recruited abroad. I wish to look afresh at the issues and evidence presented before taking further steps. Crossrail: Pay Network Rail: Pay Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what (a) salary and (b) bonus was paid to Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport each (i) executive and (ii) non-executive director of what statutory powers he has in relation to arrangements Crossrail Limited in 2009-10. [6127] for executive pay at Network Rail. [4970]

Mrs Villiers: Crossrail Limited is a 100% subsidiary Mrs Villiers: The Secretary of State for Transport of the Transport for London Group. As such the salary currently has no statutory powers in relation to executive and bonuses paid to the executive and non-executive pay at Network Rail. directors are a matter for the Mayor of London. Railways Departmental Responsibilities Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the rail improvement schemes (a) between Liverpool what the roles and responsibilities are of the Parliamentary and Leeds and (b) around Sheffield are for which Under-Secretary of State for Transport. [5755] funding was announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Budget Statement of 22 June 2010; how much Norman Baker: The responsibilities, which are published each such scheme will cost; and if he will make a on the Department’s website, are as follows: statement. [4439] Norman Baker Regional and Local Transport Mrs Villiers: The improvement scheme between Liverpool and Leeds via Manchester consists of various network Buses and Taxis— including concessionary fares improvements to reduce journey times between these Walking and Cycling cities. The scheme relating to Sheffield consists of line Accessibility and Equalities speed improvements on the Midland Main Line between Alternatives to travel London, Nottingham and Sheffield via Derby. Both Light rail and trams these schemes are under development by Network Rail. Natural environment The cost of each scheme will be finally determined once Parking the development work has been completed. Traffic management Railways: Cycling Corporate issues Mike Penning Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Strategic Roads and Highways Agency what plans he has for the budget allocated by his Motoring agencies Department for improving cycling facilities at rail stations. Road Safety and Standards [3913] Freight and Logistics—including lorry road user charging Maritime and Dangerous Goods—(including Maritime and Mrs Villiers: £4 million has been made available Coastguard Agency) through Cycling England for four flagship Bike ‘n’ Ride Better regulation. train operating companies. Over the two years 2009-11, 265W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 266W

Virgin Trains, Merseyrail, Northern Rail and South Franchise Order date Type Vehicles West Trains will be improving cycle facilities at stations across their network. Chiltern Railway January 2008 DMU 8 Future budgets will depend on decisions to be made Southern March 2008 EMU 44 in the comprehensive spending review. Virgin West Coast September EMU 106 2008 Railways: Fares Thameslink Railway Line Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what plans he has for future levels of regulated rail fares; [3910] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the answer of 28 June 2010, Official Report, (2) whether he plans to retain the formula for column 366W, on the Thameslink railway line, when a regulated rail fare increases of RPI inflation plus 1%. decision will be made on the way in which Wimbledon [4046] loop services will operate after the completion of the Thameslink programme. [6362] Mrs Villiers: The Government are committed to fairness on rail fares. We hope to be able to keep the current Mrs Villiers: I anticipate that a decision on this formula for the cap on regulated fares, but we will need matter will be taken some two years before the date of to wait until further work has been done on the spending the timetable change, in line with normal railway industry settlement before making a final decision on the fare planning timescales. formula for next year. Railways: Freight Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to the answer of 28 June 2010, Official Report, Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport column 366W, on the Thameslink railway line, whether what his policy is on the use of rail freight; and what the public will be consulted on the way in which Wimbledon support he plans to provide to freight companies and loop services will operate after the completion of the hauliers which transport goods using rail. [4977] Thameslink programme. [6363]

Mrs Villiers: The Government currently support the Mrs Villiers: It is a requirement of their franchise transfer of freight from road to rail, where it is practical agreements that train operating companies must carry and economically and environmentally sustainable to out public consultation on timetable changes. do so. While I recognise the benefits that grant funding to Transport for London: Finance encourage modal shift from road to rail freight can bring, the current financial climate means that we will Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport have to make difficult spending decisions across what recent discussions he has had with the Mayor of Government. Decisions on the future of freight grant London on the budget of Transport for London. [3914] schemes will therefore be reached as part of the Spending Review. Mrs Villiers: The Secretary of State has regular Railways: Repairs and Maintenance discussions with the Mayor on a variety of London transport issues, including funding. Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his policy is on funding local railway improvements; Written Questions: Government Responses and if he will make a statement. [4424] Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Mrs Villiers: Local authorities have the power to on what matters (a) within and (b) outside his listed fund railway improvements and can use locally determined Ministerial responsibilities the Parliamentary Under- budgets for this purpose. Government funding for local Secretary of State for Transport answers questions for transport will be considered as part of the Spending written answer. [6358] Review. Rolling stock Norman Baker: The details of my ministerial responsibilities, which are published on the Department for Transport’s website, are as follows: Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what new rolling stock orders have been placed for each Regional and Local Transport rail franchise since 2007. [4042] Buses and Taxis—including concessionary fares Walking and Cycling Mrs Villiers: Rolling stock orders for franchised operators Accessibility and Equalities since 2007 are as shown in the following table. Alternatives to travel Light rail and trams Franchise Order date Type Vehicles Natural environment Southern May 2007 EMU 48 Parking London Midland August 2007 EMU 148 Traffic management London Midland December 2007 DMU 69 Corporate issues 267W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 268W

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Departmental NDPBs

Aid Expenditure: Legislation Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what the address is of the 14. Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State head office of each non-departmental public body for for International Development whether he plans to which his Department is responsible. [5714] bring forward legislative proposals to meet the 0.7 per cent. aid target before the UN Millennium Development Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International Goals summit in September 2010. [6274] Development (DFID) is responsible for one non- departmental public body, the Commonwealth Scholarship Mr Andrew Mitchell: This Government are fully Commission (CSC). committed to our target of spending 0.7% of national The head office of CSC is at Woburn House, 20-24 income on development assistance from 2013. We will Tavistock Square, London, WC1H 9HF. enshrine this commitment in law as swiftly as the parliamentary timetable allows. Overseas Aid

Centre for Progressive Health Financing Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what the overseas development 15. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State budget is for 2010-11. [5486] for International Development what recent representations he has received on the work of the Centre for Progressive Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International Health Financing. [6275] Development’s (DFID’s) budget for 2010-11 remains at £7.8 billion. Projections for the overall level of official Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International development assistance for 2010-11 will be set out in the Development (DFID) has received representations from Spending Review later this year. country governments including Liberia and Sierra Leone, both of which currently receive DFID support for health financing, and from a group of UK-based NGOs represented by Save the Children (UK). INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY I have recently initiated a review of DFID’s aid STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE programmes to determine how we can achieve better value for money for the taxpayer and accelerate progress Manpower towards the millennium development goals. The way in which we will take forward our support for health John Mann: To ask The hon. Member for Broxbourne, financing will be determined as part of this review. representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority how many staff Afghanistan: Overseas Aid IPSA employs; and how many it will employ in October 2010. [6849] Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether all of the Mr Charles Walker: The Independent Parliamentary £200 million of additional aid money he announced on Standards Authority (IPSA) has informed me that as 10 June 2010 will be programmed under the authority of 7 July 2010, it employs 81 staff (80.5 FTE), of whom of the Secretary of State for International 27 are permanent and 54 are temporary. Development alone. [5413] The staffing levels in October 2010 will be dependent on the outcome of the organisational review. IPSA’s Mr Andrew Mitchell: I confirm that all of the £200 million intention is to reduce these numbers to approximately of additional aid money for Afghanistan announced on 55 as it reaches a steady state. 10 June 2010 will be programmed under my authority. As with all aid spending the £200 million will be in line with the OECD DAC definition. LEADER OF THE HOUSE Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development from which of his Departmental Conferences Department’s budget lines the additional £200 million of additional aid money for Afghanistan announced on 10 June 2010 will be taken. [5414] Robert Halfon: To ask the Leader of the House what estimate he has made of his Office’s expenditure on (a) Mr Andrew Mitchell: I have commissioned a review organisation of and (b) attendance at conferences in of the Department for International Development’s each year since 1997. [6125] (DFID’s) aid programmes, which will inform the allocation of aid for the next Spending Review period (2011-12 to Sir George Young: The Office of the Leader of the 2014-15). Most of the £200 million will be allocated as House joined the Cabinet Office in 2007. Information part of this review, with any allocation during 2010-11 prior to 2007 can therefore be provided only at coming from unallocated contingency funds, including disproportionate cost. savings from low priority programmes and from waste Since 2007, the Office has incurred no costs for the and inefficiency under the last Government. organisation of conferences. 269W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 270W

Information about the attendance of Leaders’ Office Mr Gibb [holding answer 8 June 2010]: Total Office staff at conferences is not held centrally and can therefore of Government Commerce audited cash savings from be provided only at disproportionate cost. Becta’s procurement frameworks for ICT equipment for schools and colleges from 1 April 2003 to 31 March Departmental Lost Property 2010 total £248 million. Pete Wishart: To ask the Leader of the House what Education Maintenance Allowance property has been recorded as (a) lost and (b) stolen from his Office in the last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost of the replacement of that Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education property. [5964] what plans he has to increase the efficiency of the education maintenance allowance system in order to Sir George Young: The Office of the Leader of the reduce costs. [4079] House of Commons is part of the Cabinet Office. I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer given by the Mr Gibb: We have identified and made a saving of Cabinet Office today. £10 million from the administration of the education maintenance allowance. This saving arises from the development of a more efficient system for processing EMA applications. EDUCATION Academies Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether education maintenance allowance (EMA) will Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education continue to be paid in full in (a) the current academic whether there will be a standard Academy Arrangement year and (b) subsequent academic years; what his which will be used between new Academy Schools and Department’s policy is on the long-term retention of his Department. [4075] EMA; and if he will make a statement. [4084]

Mr Gibb: We intend to publish a model funding Mr Gibb: I can confirm that the Education Maintenance agreement shortly to be used between new Academy Allowance (EMA) will be paid in full in the 2010/11 schools and the Department. academic year. The budget for EMA for 2010-11 is Academies: Cheshire £564 million. Longer term plans for financial support for students aged between 16 and 19 will be considered in the context of the Comprehensive Spending Review Mr Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education in the autumn. how many schools in the Cheshire East local authority area have expressed an interest in becoming academies. [4843] Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Education for how long he plans to suspend the payment Mr Gibb [holding answer 29 June 2010]: The lists of of bonuses under the Education Maintenance Allowance schools that have expressed an interest in converting to scheme. [4160] academy status is published on the Department of Education’s website, at: Mr Gibb: We have no plans to reverse the decision http://www.education.gov.uk/academies made by the previous Government to stop paying bonuses The lists will be updated frequently. on top of weekly Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) payments. Academies: Nutrition Education: Finance Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether proposed Academy Arrangements will require academies to comply with nutritional standards for Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education school meals. [4074] what savings he plans to make from the budget for learner support in the next 12 months. [4080] Mr Gibb: Some existing academies are required to comply with these standards through their funding Mr Gibb: In addition to the £10 million savings in the agreements. However, new academies will not be required administration of the Education Maintenance Allowance to comply with nutritional standards for school meals: (EMA) for 2010-11, a further £5 million has been saved they will be free to promote healthy eating and good from several other learner support schemes through nutrition as they see fit. efficiencies in administration and some lower take-up. British Educational Communications and Technology Agency Education: VAT

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education for Education what estimate he has made of the total what estimate he has made of the change in the level of amount saved in school and college budgets attributable valued added tax local education authorities will be to the intervention of Becta in the procurement of IT required to pay in financial year (a) 2010-11 and (b) equipment since 2003. [1412] 2011-12. [4574] 271W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 272W

Tim Loughton [holding answer 28 June 2010]: The London and the London borough of Brent. There are Department has not yet assessed the implications of the no current plans to review area cost uplifts for post-16 recent Budget changes around VAT. It will form part of education and training. our considerations for the spending review which is now in hand. History: Curriculum

Education: Worcestershire Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education when he plans to publish the new history Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for curriculum for secondary schools in England. [3920] Education if he will take steps to increase the funding which Worcestershire local education authority receives Mr Gibb: The Government intend to review the National from his Department; and if he will make a statement. Curriculum. We will announce more detailed plans in [3972] due course.

Mr Gibb: We have made public our intention to hold Pupils: Disadvantaged a spending review this autumn, to conclude on 20 October. We expect to launch a consultation on school funding Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for in the summer. Education when he plans to finalise the formula for distribution of the pupil premium; and if he will make a Financial Services: Education statement. [4153]

Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gibb: The Government are committed to the Education if he will take steps to include the provision introduction of the pupil premium for disadvantaged of financial education within the National Curriculum. children. We will announce more details of our proposals [4767] in due course.

Mr Gibb: The Government announced on 7 June our Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for intention to make changes to the National Curriculum. Education whether he plans to allocate funding to the We will announce more detailed plans in due course. proposed pupil premium from the budgets currently Free School Meals: Streatham allocated to schools. [4157] Mr Gibb: The Government are committed to the Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for introduction of the pupil premium for disadvantaged Education what estimate he has made of the number of children. This will be funded from savings found outside pupils resident in Streatham constituency who would the schools budget. have been entitled to free school meals had the plan to extend provision been implemented. [4517] Pupils: Per Capita Costs

Mr Gibb: The Department does not hold information Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for about eligibility for free school meals by constituency. Education what the per (a) capita and (b) pupil Free Schools: Cheshire funding (i) in each local education authority area and (ii) from each local education authority was in the (A) Mr Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for primary and (B) secondary sector in each of the last Education how many expressions of interest there have four years. [1140] been in the free schools scheme in the Cheshire East Mr Gibb: School funding is allocated based upon local authority area. [4847] pupil numbers, not population numbers, and so the Mr Gibb [holding answer 29 June 2010]: The Department Department for Education does not have funding figures for Education has not received any formal proposals for on a per capita basis. free schools in the Cheshire East local authority area. The Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) is distributed Anyone who is interested in setting up a free school but by the Department through a single guaranteed unit of is not yet ready to submit a formal proposal has been funding per pupil for each local authority, so a primary/ asked to contact the new schools network in the first secondary split on a central to local government basis is instance. not available. Per pupil funding figures for 2006-07 to 2009-10 for Further Education: Greater London all local authorities in England are provided in the following table. These include the DSG and other grants, Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for are for all funded pupils aged three to 19 and are in real Education if he will review the level of London area terms: cost uplifts for post-16 education and training in (a) Local authority revenue funding per pupil Greater London and (b) the London borough of £ Brent. [4811] 2006—07 2007—08 2008—09 2009—10

Mr Gibb: All area costs for post-16 education were Barking and 4,960 5,240 5,270 5,390 reviewed by the then Learning and Skills Council (LSC) Dagenham in 2006. The outcome of that review was to retain the Barnet 4,990 5,130 5,200 5,340 area cost uplifts as they were then, including for Greater Barnsley 4,300 4,480 4,480 4,650 273W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 274W

Local authority revenue funding per pupil Local authority revenue funding per pupil £ £ 2006—07 2007—08 2008—09 2009—10 2006—07 2007—08 2008—09 2009—10

Bath and North 4,240 4,370 4,430 4,570 Hillingdon 4,800 4,940 4,990 5,120 East Somerset Hounslow 5,180 5,340 5,380 5,490 Bedfordshire 4,210 4,350 4,410 — Isle of Wight 4,520 4,680 4,660 4,810 Bedford — — — 4,680 Islington 6,430 6,710 6,660 6,810 Borough Kensington and 6,490 6,610 6,530 6,700 Central — — — 4,470 Chelsea Bedfordshire Kent 4,310 4,460 4,520 4,650 Bexley 4,510 4,670 4,720 4,820 Kingston Upon 4,650 4,820 4,870 5,020 Birmingham 5,000 5,180 5,240 5,370 Hull, City of Blackburn with 4,860 5,020 5,040 5,180 Kingston upon 4,670 4,790 4,850 4,960 Darwen Thames Blackpool 4,430 4,590 4,620 4,760 Kirklees 4,380 4,550 4,650 4,800 Bolton 4,410 4,590 4,600 4,710 Knowsley 4,800 5,040 5,080 5,310 Bournemouth 4,150 4,290 4,300 4,450 Lambeth 6,400 6,620 6,780 7,020 Bracknell Forest 4,310 4,470 4,500 4,650 Lancashire 4,320 4,480 4,520 4,660 Bradford 4,640 4,830 4,870 5,010 Leeds 4,410 4,560 4,610 4,730 Brent 5,350 5,590 5,700 5,830 Leicester 4,660 4,870 4,860 5,040 Brighton and 4,480 4,640 4,660 4,780 Leicestershire 3,920 4,050 4,150 4,270 Hove Lewisham 6,140 6,310 6,330 6,480 Bristol, City of 4,890 5,050 5,050 5,130 Lincolnshire 4,230 4,380 4,410 4,530 Bromley 4,350 4,510 4,590 4,730 Liverpool 4,880 5,080 5,140 5,340 Buckinghamshire 4,310 4,450 4,510 4,640 Luton 4,740 4,920 4,960 5,120 Bury 4,240 4,390 4,430 4,560 Manchester 5,150 5,410 5,430 5,570 Calderdale 4,380 4,530 4,570 4,700 Medway 4,420 4,560 4,600 4,710 Cambridgeshire 4,080 4,210 4,280 4,410 Merton 4,820 4,970 5,010 5,130 Camden 6,700 6,900 6,910 7,070 Middlesbrough 4,850 5,040 4,960 5,150 Cheshire 4,200 4,350 4,430 — Milton Keynes 4,480 4,630 4,710 4,850 Cheshire East — — — 4,450 Newcastle upon 4,620 4,800 4,840 4,950 Cheshire West — — — 4,660 Tyne and Chester Newham 5,650 5,870 5,970 6,140 Cornwall 4,120 4,280 4,340 4,500 Norfolk 4,210 4,360 4,410 4,540 Coventry 4,620 4,790 4,790 4,920 North East 4,560 4,780 4,850 5,050 Croydon 4,660 4,860 4,910 5,050 Lincolnshire Cumbria 4,290 4,430 4,430 4,570 North 4,240 4,390 4,420 4,540 Darlington 4,360 4,540 4,550 4,680 Lincolnshire Derby 4,440 4,610 4,660 4,790 North Somerset 4,120 4,260 4,310 4,450 Derbyshire 4,170 4,320 4,450 4,590 North Tyneside 4,360 4,490 4,520 4,660 Devon 4,070 4,220 4,280 4,400 North Yorkshire 4,230 4,370 4,440 4,580 Doncaster 4,450 4,600 4,630 4,750 Northamptonshire 4,130 4,280 4,360 4,460 Dorset 4,160 4,310 4,350 4,480 Northumberland 4,230 4,380 4,400 4,510 Dudley 4,290 4,460 4,510 4,640 Nottingham 5,110 5,330 5,330 5,430 Durham 4,480 4,640 4,730 4,900 Nottinghamshire 4,150 4,330 4,390 4,500 Ealing 5,350 5,540 5,620 5,790 Oldham 4,610 4,790 4,820 4,970 East Riding of 4,060 4,210 4,270 4,410 Oxfordshire 4,220 4,370 4,410 4,520 Yorkshire Peterborough 4,550 4,700 4,790 4,920 East Sussex 4,330 4,530 4,560 4,700 Plymouth 4,350 4,510 4,540 4,670 Enfield 4,910 5,080 5,100 5,210 Poole 4,090 4,230 4,250 4,370 Essex 4,250 4,400 4,450 4,560 Portsmouth 4,430 4,600 4,650 4,800 Gateshead 4,570 4,720 4,740 4,880 Reading 4,720 4,920 4,870 5,030 Gloucestershire 4,110 4,260 4,370 4,480 Redbridge 4,580 4,770 4,820 4,960 Greenwich 5,930 6,130 6,260 6,430 Redcar and 4,510 4,670 4,750 4,930 Hackney 6,920 7,070 7,250 7,470 Cleveland Halton 4,780 4,960 4,960 5,070 Richmond upon 4,560 4,690 4,750 4,880 Hammersmith 6,330 6,550 6,490 6,630 Thames and Fulham Rochdale 4,680 4,860 4,900 5,050 Hampshire 4,070 4,220 4,320 4,430 Rotherham 4,530 4,700 4,730 4,860 Haringey 5,640 5,850 5,940 6,020 Rutland 4,310 4,440 4,400 4,530 Harrow 4,800 4,970 5,170 5,200 Salford 4,860 5,060 5,050 5,220 Hartlepool 4,600 4,780 4,830 4,910 Sandwell 4,710 4,900 4,890 4,980 Havering 4,460 4,600 4,670 4,800 Sefton 4,420 4,570 4,590 4,740 Herefordshire 4,100 4,270 4,320 4,450 Sheffield 4,390 4,570 4,650 4,780 Hertfordshire 4,250 4,400 4,500 4,620 Shropshire 4,070 4,220 4,240 4,370 275W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 276W

Local authority revenue funding per pupil Mr Gibb: Since 2006-07, the Dedicated Schools Grant £ (DSG) has been the main source of school funding. As 2006—07 2007—08 2008—09 2009—10 the DSG is distributed through a single guaranteed unit of funding per pupil and is distributed from central Slough 4,900 5,070 5,130 5,270 Government to local government, a primary/secondary Solihull 4,100 4,210 4,270 4,420 split on a central to local government basis is not Somerset 4,080 4,230 4,350 4,480 available. South 3,970 4,110 4,150 4,230 Gloucestershire Average per pupil unit of funding figures for 2005-06 South Tyneside 4,640 4,820 4,910 5,090 to 2009-10 for England are provided in the table. The Southampton 4,530 4,700 4,750 4,850 figures are for all funded pupils aged three to 19 and are Southend-on-Sea 4,460 4,590 4,640 4,800 in real terms: Southwark 6,440 6,640 6,650 6,770 Revenue funding per pupil St Helens 4,440 4,630 4,640 4,810 England average Staffordshire 4,080 4,230 4,290 4,420 2005-06 (baseline) 4,340 Stockport 4,180 4,320 4,410 4,560 2006-07 4,480 Stockton-on- 4,470 4,640 4,620 4,760 2007-08 4,640 Tees 2008-09 4,690 Stoke-on-Trent 4,620 4,770 4,800 4,930 2009-10 4,830 Suffolk 4,100 4,260 4,320 4,470 Notes: Sunderland 4,470 4,630 4,680 4,820 1. This covers funding through the Dedicated Schools Grant, School Surrey 4,240 4,370 4,450 4,580 Standards Grant, School Standards Grant (Personalisation) and Standards Sutton 4,590 4,740 4,810 4,950 Fund as well as funding from the Learning and Skills Council; it Swindon 4,110 4,250 4,310 4,430 excludes grants which are not allocated at LA level. 2. Price Base: real term figures using 31 March 2010 GDP Deflators Tameside 4,360 4,520 4,560 4,660 at 2008-09 prices. Telford and 4,300 4,510 4,510 4,650 3. These figures are for all funded pupils aged three to 19. Wrekin 4. Rounding: per pupil figures are rounded to the nearest £10. Thurrock 4,500 4,670 4,700 4,860 Torbay 4,280 4,440 4,460 4,580 Schools: Management Tower Hamlets 7,020 7,280 7,350 7,540 Trafford 4,200 4,340 4,410 4,560 Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Wakefield 4,350 4,510 4,550 4,630 whether free schools would be required to give priority Walsall 4,510 4,690 4,700 4,810 in admissions to (a) children with special educational Waltham Forest 5,180 5,340 5,330 5,490 needs and (b) looked-after children under his proposals Wandsworth 5,650 5,880 5,980 6,190 for such schools. [4535] Warrington 4,090 4,250 4,320 4,450 Mr Gibb [holding answer 28 June 2010]: Free schools Warwickshire 4,130 4,270 4,320 4,450 will be bound by the same school admissions code that West Berkshire 4,390 4,530 4,570 4,700 governs all publicly funded schools. This requires that West Sussex 4,170 4,310 4,370 4,470 the highest priority for admission is given to looked-after Westminster 6,040 6,310 6,260 6,370 children. They are also required by the code to ensure Wigan 4,300 4,470 4,510 4,640 their arrangements do not ‘unfairly disadvantage a Wiltshire 4,060 4,200 4,250 4,390 child with a disability or special educational needs’. Windsor and 4,420 4,580 4,630 4,770 Maidenhead Local authorities will also be able name free schools Wirral 4,420 4,610 4,630 4,770 in statements of special educational needs (SEN), in the Wokingham 4,160 4,320 4,360 4,520 same way as they are currently able to do for academies. Wolverhampton 4,670 4,860 4,940 5,100 Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Worcestershire 4,080 4,210 4,300 4,430 whether a free school would be required to admit a York 4,120 4,260 4,360 4,500 pupil with a statement of special educational needs if Notes: 1. This covers funding through the Dedicated Schools Grant, School the school is named in such a statement under his Standards Grant, School Standards Grant (Personalisation) and proposals for such schools. [4537] Standards Fund as well as funding from the Learning and Skills Council; it excludes grants which are not allocated at LA level. Mr Gibb [holding answer 28 June 2010]: Afree 2. Price Base: Real term figures using 31 March 2010 GDP Deflators school will be required to admit a pupil with a statement at 2008-09 prices. 3. These figures are for all funded pupils aged three to 19. of special educational needs if the school is named in a 4. Rounding: Per pupil figures are rounded to the nearest £10. statement. Free schools, like academies, are bound by 5. Figures exclude Isles of Scilly and City of London. the same school admissions code that governs all publicly 6. From 2009-10 due to Local Government re-organisation, funded schools. Bedfordshire split to become Bedford Borough and Central Bedfordshire and Cheshire became Cheshire East and Cheshire West Schools: Transport and Chester.

Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what proportion of 16 to 19 year-olds in (a) Education what the per pupil funding was for (a) full-time education and (b) unwaged training are primary and (b) secondary pupils in England in each eligible for (i) free and (ii) subsidised transport between of the last five years. [4864] their home and their place of education. [4021] 277W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 278W

Mr Gibb: The information requested is not available ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS centrally as it is for local authorities and Passenger Agriculture: Regulation Transport Executives to determine locally what arrangements and support might be made available to young people in their area. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which regulations affecting farming she has abolished since her appointment. Sixth Form Education [4715] Mr Paice: I have not abolished any regulations relating Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for to farming since I came to office. However, the Government Education which local authorities have no secondary are committed to bear down on the costs and number of schools with sixth forms. [4022] regulations and I intend to review all planned and existing regulations. As part of that commitment the Mr Gibb: Local authorities which have no secondary Task Force on Farming Regulations, to be chaired by schools with sixth forms are as follows: Richard Macdonald, is being formed to identify ways Bury to reduce the regulatory burden through a review of City of London relevant regulations and their implementation. It will advise on how to achieve a risk-based system of regulation Isles of Scilly in the future and is due to produce its initial views in Middlesbrough early 2011. Portsmouth All new regulations, including those affecting farming, Richmond Upon Thames will also be challenged by a new Reducing Regulation Rutland Committee. Stockport. Source: Mr Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she EduBase 2 has to reduce the administrative burden placed upon farmers by regulations on nitrate vulnerable zones. [4802] Special Educational Needs Mr Paice: The Nitrates Directive requires each member Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for state to review its Nitrate Vulnerable Zone (NVZ) Education how many applications for statements on designation and Nitrates Action Programme every four special educational need have been made in each local years. authority area in each year since 1997. [5708] DEFRA will be working closely with the farming industry, other interested parties and the European Sarah Teather: Parents and schools can ask local Commission over the next two years to consider the authorities to carry out statutory assessments of children’s ways in which the Nitrates Action Programme could be special educational needs (SEN) with a view to the amended, with a view to implementing any changes children being given statements. Information on these from January 2013. requests is not collected centrally. Information on the In addition, the Task Force on Farming Regulations, number of children whose assessments resulted in to be chaired by Richard Macdonald, is being formed statements each year is published in Tables 2 and 3A of to identify ways to reduce regulatory burden through a the Statistical First Release “Special Educational Needs review of relevant regulations and their implementation. in England: January 2010”. This can be accessed at: It will advise on how to achieve a risk-based system of http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000939/ regulation in the future and produce its initial views in index.shtml early 2011. Agriculture: Subsidies Special Educational Needs: Finance Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many individuals Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for have been paid £200,000 or more under the single Education whether he plans to allocate funding for payment scheme in 2009; and how much was paid to children with additional educational needs to schools each such recipient under that scheme. [4927] from 2010-11. [4158] Mr Paice [holding answer 30 June 2010]: The overall Mr Gibb: School funding for 2010-11 was the final Single Payment Scheme (SPS) payments made to individuals year of a three year settlement agreed under the previous who received £200,000 or more in 2009 and total amounts Government, and we have already stated we will not are reflected in the following table. The details for each make changes to allocations that have already been recipient will be placed in the House Library. made for 2010-11. Beyond 2010-11, this Government are committed to changes to the funding system through Total amount paid the introduction of a pupil premium for disadvantaged Individuals (£) children. We will bring forward our proposals in due 2009 502 158,891,590.03 course. 279W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 280W

This reflects the 2009 claim payments made to date. Mr Paice: A set of conclusions were adopted by the Payments made to individuals in Euro have been converted Environment Council on 11 June to confirm the EU’s to Sterling at 0.9093, the SPS 2009 scheme rate. The overall priorities for the Cartagena Protocol meeting in Rural Payments Agency continues to work on a small October. The conclusions are published on the Council number of applications that are not yet validated for website at: full payment. www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/ en/envir/115093.pdf Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what administration Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control costs were incurred in respect of processing claims made under the single payment scheme in each of the Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for last five years. [4930] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to page 18 of the Coalition Agreement, what estimate she Mr Paice [holding answer 30 June 2010]: The Rural has made of the cost of conducting the science-led Payments Agency uses a new model developed by policy of badger control measures in areas with high PricewaterhouseCoopers for calculating administration and persistent levels of bovine tuberculosis. [5774] costs in respect of processing claims made under the single payments scheme. The earliest available data Mr Paice: The coalition has committed that, as part using this model is from the year 2007-08. of a package of measures, we will introduce a carefully The 2005-06 and 2006-07 costs were calculated using managed and science-led policy of badger control in previous methodology, and as such the costs for each of areas with high and persistent levels of bovine TB. the last five years are not directly comparable. We need to consider all the issues carefully, including Costs are as follows: the scientific evidence, to work out the detail of the package to ensure we get it right. We will be looking at £ vaccine and culling options as part of that package. We will set out our proposals in due course, including 1 2005-06 750 the estimated costs. 2006-07 713 2007-08 1,317 Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, 2008-09 1,286 Food and Rural Affairs (1) what percentage of bovine 2009-10 21,043 tuberculosis tests produced false positive results in (a) 1 The DEFRA review of RPA conducted by David Hunter reported in each of the last 10 years and (b) the latest period for March 2007 an average of £750 per claim processed for the 2005 which figures are available; [6020] scheme. 2 Provisional until 2009-10 accounts are audited (2) what steps her Department has taken to implement Bees the recommendation made in the 2006 report on the review of tuberculosis testing procedures that tuberculosis testing audit and assurance procedures should be enhanced; Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for [6021] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent (3) what percentage of cattle slaughtered following assessment she has made of the effect of neo-nicotinoids positive bovine tuberculosis tests are found to be free of on bees. [5652] tuberculosis when tested after slaughter; [6022] Mr Paice [holding answer 5 July 2010]: The UK (4) how many cattle herds were tested for bovine pesticides regulatory body (the Health and Safety tuberculosis in the last 12 months for which figures are Executive’s Chemicals Regulation Directorate (CRD)) available; and in what percentage of those herds at least has liaised with other EU regulatory authorities that one cow tested positive. [6023] have imposed restrictions on the use of these pesticides. It also reviews developments on how risks to bee health Mr Paice [holding answer 5 July 2010]: An effective from the use of pesticides are assessed and monitored. TB testing audit process has already been drawn up and CRD scientists attended the 10th International Symposium used to audit Animal Health staff engaged in TB testing. of the International Commission for Plant-Bee Consideration is currently being given as to how best to Relationships (ICPBR) on Hazards of Pesticides to extend the audit process to all TB testers on an ongoing Bees, in October 2008; no new scientific evidence was basis. presented at this meeting, or more recently, to suggest a The tuberculin skin test has a specificity of 99.9%, need for action on current UK pesticide authorisations. which means that when applied to cattle without TB in CRD would act on any substantive evidence should Great Britain, there is a one in 1,000 chance that a incidents occur in the UK and will continue to monitor non-infected animal will be wrongly classified as a research and developments in other EU member states reactor. The probability of false positives is therefore and elsewhere to see if they are relevant to the UK. 0.1%. A failure to detect lesions of TB through post-mortem Biosafety Protocol inspections or to culture M.bovis (the causative organism of the disease) in the laboratory does not imply that a Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for test reactor was not infected with bovine TB. In the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what position early stages of the disease it is not always possible to the EU plans to take at the Meeting of the Parties to observe lesions during post-mortem examination and, the Caragena Protocol on Biosafety in October 2010. due to the fastidious nature of this organism it is very [4626] difficult to isolate it from tissue samples without lesions. 281W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 282W

The primary purpose of post mortem inspections and Richard Benyon: We have no specific relocation plans culture is not to establish the presence or absence of within the Department although we are always looking disease, but rather to identify the severity and strain of to maximise the most efficient use of our estate. We will infection. It is therefore not possible to say what percentage bear Bassetlaw in mind in any such decisions. of cattle slaughtered following positive bovine tuberculosis tests are found to be free of tuberculosis when tested Dogs after slaughter. During the last 12 months 42,262 cattle herds that Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for were not under movement restrictions were tested for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her bovine Tuberculosis in England. Of these herds 7.9% Department plans to take to promote responsible dog had at least one animal test positive. ownership; and if she will make a statement. [5491] Notes: Data from Vetnet is produced three months in arrears and the Mr Paice: On 1 June a wide ranging public consultation latest report available is for March 2010. Therefore data cannot on changes to the dangerous dog laws and the promotion be provided for the last three months. of responsible dog ownership closed. Options presented Data from Vetnet is provisional and subject to change as more in the consultation included the introduction of dog data becomes available. control notices and compulsory microchipping, among Source: others. The consultation received 4,250 responses, which Vetnet—Animal Health Database will need to be analysed before any action relating to dangerous dog legislation is considered. Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many lay EU Grants and Loans: Northern Ireland vaccinators the Food and Environment Research Agency has trained for the Badger Vaccine Deployment Project. Ian Paisley: To ask the Secretary of State for [6398] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the answer to Question 978, what the outcome was of the Mr Paice: The Food and Environment Research Agency discussions with (a) the UK Permanent Representative has not yet trained lay vaccinators as part of the Badger and (b) the European Commission on (i) disallowance Vaccine Deployment Project. Training is due to commence and (ii) the £60 million financial correction levied on this summer. the Department for Agriculture and Rural Development Northern Ireland. [4306] Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what budget and Mr Paice: The European Commission has confirmed how many staff the Food and Environment Research financial corrections in respect of the Department for Agency (a) had in 2009-10 and (b) has for (i) 2010-11 Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) Northern and (ii) 2011-12 to train lay vaccinators for the Badger Ireland of £13,123,106.40 and ¤18,600,258.71. These Vaccine Deployment Project. [6399] sums mostly relate to payments made by DARD and funded by the Commission during EU financial years Mr Paice: No training for lay vaccinators was carried 2005-07 (i.e. 16 October 2004 to 15 October 2007) that out in 2009-10. concerned the Extensification Premium Scheme (Scheme Training will draw on a pool of 15 Food and Year 2004) and the Single Payment Scheme (Scheme Environment Research Agency (Fera) staff, all of whom Years 2005 and 2006). The UK formally recorded its will be accredited as trainers. All of these staff will also continued concerns with the Commission that these be working on a range of other Fera projects. financial corrections are wholly disproportionate to any Practical training of lay vaccinators will take place actual risk to the Fund and that the Northern Ireland alongside the trapping and vaccinating of badgers in Authorities are therefore actively considering referring the Stroud area. The total budget for this work in the case to the European Court of Justice. Discussions 2010-11 is£614,000 and in 2011-12 is £418,000. with the Commission on proposed financial corrections covering later financial years remain ongoing. Departmental Official Photographs Flood Control Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Department has spent on official photographs of Ministers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for how many since the formation of the present administration. homes the Environment Agency plans to improve flood [6431] protection in 2010-11. [6400]

Richard Benyon: The Department has spent £176.25 Richard Benyon: In 2010-11, the Environment Agency on official photographs of the new ministerial team plans to improve flood protection for 79,000 households since their appointment on 11 May 2010. in England.

Departmental Reorganisation Oak Processionary Moth

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she steps to relocate officials working in her Department plans to take to eradicate the oak processionary moth. from central London to Bassetlaw. [6561] [6004] 283W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 284W

Mr Paice: The Forestry Commission has put in place composting investigation into Tunneltech initiated by an emergency programme to deal with this pest and is her Department through the Health Protection Agency working with officials from the affected London boroughs, and the local primary care trust. [6627] the Food and Environment Research Agency, the Health Protection Agency and others to try to prevent its Mr Paice: The following medical experts were involved spread and to eradicate it. in the preparation of the report referred to in the oral A team of dedicated surveyors carries out inspections question from the hon. Member on 24 June 2010, of sites where oak trees are present. Where the pest is Official Report, column 415, the Director of Public found, owners are required either to have affected trees Health for Bassetlaw and Nottinghamshire County Primary sprayed with insecticide to kill off the moth’s larvae, or Care Trust; consultants in public health at the Primary to have nests removed and destroyed before a new Care Trust; consultants in health protection at the generation of adults emerges to breed. Health Protection Agency; the Health Protection Agency’s Composting Working Group; and at least three general The moth is thought to have been introduced into the practitioner practices in the area around the Tunneltech area on infected oak trees used for landscaping work. plant. Temporary import restrictions have therefore been put in place and a request has been made to have the pest listed in the EU plant health directive so that these restrictions may be made permanent. HOME DEPARTMENT Rural Payments Agency ACPO Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service and National Wildlife Crime Unit Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) on what dates Mr Alan Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for she has met the chief executive of the Rural Payments the Home Department what plans she has for the future Agency since her appointment; and what issues were funding of (a) the ACPO Vehicle Crime Intelligence discussed at each such meeting; [5012] Service and (b) the National Wildlife Crime Unit. [5497] (2) on what date she expects completion of the work on the Rural Payments Agency’s computer system; and James Brokenshire: As the Chancellor of the Exchequer what her most recent estimate is of the costs of announced in his emergency Budget on 22 June, the completing such work; [5013] Government are currently conducting a spending review. The review, to be published on 20 October, will set final (3) what discussions she has had with the chief executive departmental settlements. I will make decisions about of the Rural Payments Agency on the completion of future funding of individual areas of Home Office single payment (a) part-payments for 2008 and (b) business in light of the outcome of the spending review. part and full payments for 2009; what steps the Agency is taking to ensure such payments are made promptly; Alcoholic Drinks: Retail Trade and if she will make a statement. [5014] John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Paice: An independent review of the Rural Payments Home Department in respect of cases where proceedings Agency, commissioned by DEFRA, concluded recently. have been completed, which five retailers were prosecuted My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I are the most times for offences involving the illegal sale of studying the recommendations, which cover IT as well alcohol in 2009; and how many prosecutions were brought as a range of other issues, and will publish them shortly against each. [6620] along with the Government’s response to the review. In the meantime, the agency is taking all steps possible to James Brokenshire: Statistics for 2009 are planned for make either full or part payments in respect of outstanding publication in October 2010. single payment scheme claims. I intend to meet the RPA to discuss the handling of payments in considerable Alcoholic Drinks: Young People detail. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the Rural Payments Agency: Standards Home Department how many convictions there were for the offence of selling alcohol to juveniles in 2009; Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for and how many of those convicted had their alcohol Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent licence revoked. [6621] assessment she has made of the performance of the Rural Payments Agency. [5262] James Brokenshire: Statistics for 2009 are planned for publication in October 2010. Mr Paice: An independent Review of the Rural Payments Agency, commissioned by DEFRA, concluded recently. Asylum: Legal Aid and Assistance The Government will publish the recommendations of the Review and our response to it shortly. Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will postpone decisions Tunnel Tech on applications for asylum in all cases where the applicants were receiving legal aid and assistance from Refugee John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for and Migrant Justice until arrangements have been made Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what medical for alternative legal aid and assistance to be provided to experts have been asked to give evidence in the mushroom them; and if she will make a statement. [5086] 285W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 286W

Damian Green: While the UK Border Agency will against individuals and households in 2003-04 was estimated take every care to ensure that former Refugee and to have resulted in criminal justice system costs of Migrant Justice clients are not unreasonably affected £7,096 million and health service costs of £2,356 million. and will treat individual cases sensitively, we are unable It was also estimated to have cost £4,253 million in lost to give a blanket assurance that no adverse immigration output due to time off work, and some of this is likely decisions will be taken on their former clients until a to have been borne by the public sector. Financial new legal representative has been appointed. transfers are not included in these estimates, so they do not include compensation paid to victims of crime British Nationality: War Crimes through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme. Costs to the public purse due to crime committed Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for the against businesses and the public sector itself, as well as Home Department with reference to the answer to the a result of anti-social behaviour, are also not included hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire of 24 March in these estimates. 2010, Official Report, columns 351-52W, on the UK Border Agency’s War Crimes Unit, how many people Departmental Equality were refused citizenship, denied leave to enter/remain, or excluded from the Refugee convention in each year Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for the since 2004. [4827] Home Department how much her Department has spent (a) in total and (b) on staff costs on activities to Damian Green: The UKBA does not collate statistics promote equality and diversity in each of the last three on the outcomes of all recommendations made by its years for which figures are available; and how many specialist research team. Decisions to exclude someone people her Department employs for that purpose. from refugee protection under article 1F (a) of the [5525] Refugee Convention have been recorded separately since October 2007. As at the end of May 2010, UKBA has Lynne Featherstone: The Department has statutory recorded that 31 decisions to exclude have been responsibilities set out in equality legislation, both as an implemented. This figure is not provided under National employer and provider of services. Statistics protocols. It is therefore provisional and subject In discharging these responsibilities, the Home to change. Department under the last Government spent the following: Corruption 2007-08: £1,725,000, of which £837,000 were staff costs. 2008-09: £1,683,000, of which £1,071,000 were staff costs. Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State 2009-10: £1,518,000, of which £1,026,000 were staff costs. for the Home Department on how many occasions visa The number of people employed specifically on equality bans have been used to prevent people from each and diversity is 20. country of origin considered to be involved in corruption from travelling to the UK in each of the last DNA: Databases five years. [5608] David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: In the last five years, a total of seven Home Department how many records on the national people have been excluded from the UK by the Secretary DNA database she expects to be destroyed in the next of State because of involvement in corruption (six in 12 months. [6032] 2007 and one in 2008). Six of the individuals were Kenyan and one was Zimbabwean. Any application for James Brokenshire: At present, a DNA profile will be entry clearance or leave to enter from a person who has retained indefinitely unless the relevant Chief Officer of been excluded from the UK by the Secretary of State Police as data owner decides to authorise its deletion will be refused under Paragraph 320(6) of the Immigration from the National DNA Database. Rules. The Government are committed to a policy on retention This information is based on management information of DNA profiles that provides the protections of the and as such has not been quality assured. It is provisional Scottish model, under which the profiles from those and subject to change. arrested but not convicted are only retained in serious cases and for a limited period. We will bring forward Crime shortly detailed proposals for legislative change to give effect to our policy. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what her most recent estimate is of Entry Clearances: Overseas Students the annual cost to the public purse of crime. [6085] Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: The information required to answer Home Department what research her Department has this question is not collected routinely. The latest Home (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on a link between Office estimates of the costs of crime were published in competence in the English language and the likelihood Home Office Online Report 30/05. They relate to crimes of overstaying following the issue of a student visa. committed against individuals and households in the [6235] year 2003-04, and are broken down into a range of cost categories, some of which cover public sector expenditure Damian Green: The Government will be reviewing or the use of public sector resources. Table 4.1 of Home the non-economic immigration routes with a view to Office Online Report 30/05 indicates that crime committed bringing forward proposals in due course, and this will 287W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 288W include detailed consideration of the student routes. 3. Certificate of approval: The UK Border Agency has analysed information on Financial Year 2009-10: 86 calendar days levels of abuse based on nationality, and on students not enrolling on courses or discontinuing study as part April 2010 to May 2010: 99 calendar days of tier four review undertaken earlier this year. As tier 4. Leave to remain (LTR): four of the points-based system was only launched just LTR cases by category in calendar days over a year ago, on 31 March 2009, many of the visas Financial year April 2010 to May issued under the new student route have not yet expired 2009-10 2010 and consequently no specific research has yet been commissioned or evaluated on the links between overstaying Employment 37 30 and competence in the English language. Family Route 191 100 I have asked for a thorough evaluation of the student Protection 403 252 system to be undertaken in the coming months. The aim Study 78 68 of that work will be to ensure that the right balance is Visiting the UK 121 83 struck between providing a user-friendly route for bona Total LTR 86 64 fide students and education providers and keeping out Notes: those who would seek to abuse the student system. 1. The figures quoted are not provided under National Statistics protocols and have been derived from local management information and are therefore provisional and subject to change. Foreign Workers 2. All data extracts measure applications despatched between two dates. Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for the 3. Average Processing Time calculated from application raised date Home Department (1) how many work permits have and date despatched. 4. Post-study work visas defined by the following case types: Tier one been issued to non-EU workers in each occupation in (T1) Highly Skilled (HS)—UK Graduate Worker (Post Study)—Extension, each year since 1997; [5289] T1 HS—Post Study—International (Int.), T1 HS—(Revised) Post (2) how many work permit intracompany transfers Study—Int. were granted in respect of workers of each (a) 5. Indefinite leave to remain (based on long-term residency) defined by the following two case types: Long Residency (10 Year)—ILR, nationality and (b) occupation for each year since Long Residency (14 Year)—ILR. 1997; [5301] 6. Certificate of Approval defined by the following case types: Certificate (3) how many intracompany transfer work permits of Approval (Civil Partnership), Certificate of Approval (Marriage). were granted to each of the three companies with the largest number of such grants in the last year for which Passports: Intelligence Services figures are available. [5302]

Damian Green: The number of work permit intra David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for the company transfers granted to each of the three companies Home Department what steps her Department is with the largest number of grants in 2008, which is the taking to ensure that British passports are not used by last year for which figures are available, are: 4,470; foreign intelligence services. [6026] 3,065; and 2,385. The other information requested is detailed in Annexes A, B, and C: Annex A: Number of work permits issued to non-EU workers Damian Green: The UK passport is one of the most in each occupation in each year since 1997. secure documents of its kind, fully meeting rigorous Annex B: Number of work permit intra company transfers international standards. This security is delivered through granted by nationality in each year since 1997. a combination of physical and electronic security features. Annex C: Number of work permit intra company transfers Since 2006 individuals have been biometrically linked to granted by occupation in each year since 1997. their passports through their photograph contained in These Annexes have been placed in the Libraries of the an electronic chip embedded in the document. The chip House. cannot be altered without Border Control officers becoming aware that the passport has been tampered with. UK Immigration: Applications passports also have a range of physical security measures designed to prevent forgery and tampering. A new Tony Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the design of UK passport will be issued from 5 October Home Department what the average time taken to 2010. It will contain new security printing features to process applications for (a) post-study work visas, (b) combat fraud. indefinite leave to remain based on long-term residency, The Identity and Passport Service also has a range of (c) certificate of approval for marriage and (d) leave to measures in place to detect and deter passport fraud remain was in the latest period for which figures are which led to the IPS preventing around 17,000 fraudulent available. [5479] applications in the last two years. These include: Damian Green: The average processing times are as checking biographical information to ensure that the identity follows: claimed on the application form is real, living, and can be linked to the customer through checks against a range of 1. Post-study work visas: public and private sector databases; Financial year 2009-10: 37 calendar days the development of facial recognition systems to check applicant April 2010 to May 2010: 23 calendar days images against a database of images of suspected fraudsters; 2. Indefinite leave to remain based on long-term residency: checking applicants against increasingly sophisticated internal Financial year 2009-10: 465 calendar days watch files including databases of infant deaths and passports April 2010 to May 2010: 240 calendar days reported lost or stolen; 289W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 290W

strengthening its business processes for identity authentication, TREASURY and training and support for passport examiners and specialist fraud units; and Budget June 2010 interviews for all first-time adult customers. These measures are continuously assessed and attempted Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the frauds and forgeries analysed to ensure security is Exchequer if he will publish (a) the slides in his maintained and to identify opportunities for further Department’s presentation on its assumptions of the strengthening of the passport and passport issuing processes. effects of the measures in the 2010 Budget and (b) the Police: Manpower analysis supporting the presentation. [5944]

Paul Goggins: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Gauke: The Government published the impact of Home Department how many (a) police community measures in the 2010 Budget in the Budget document support officers and (b) police officers there were in http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/junebudget_easyread.htm each police authority area on 1 July 2010. [6372] and the Office for Budget Responsibility has published the Budget forecast and supporting assumptions. Nick Herbert: Figures on numbers of police community support officers and police officers for each police force area are collected by the Home Office twice a year, Capital Gains Tax covering 30 March and 30 September. The most recently published figures relate to Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 30 September 2009, and were published in the Home (1) what economic modelling his Department undertook Office statistical bulletin ’Police Service Strength England to determine the proposed level at which (a) capital and Wales 30 September 2009’—available on-line at: gains tax, (b) entrepreneurs’ relief and (c) the annual [6325] www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosbo0310.pdf exempt amount would be set; Figures for 30 March 2010 will be published on (2) what (a) research and (b) impact assessments he 22 July. undertook in deciding on his proposal for capital gains tax in the June 2010 Budget; [6384] Police: Retirement (3) what estimate his Department has made of the revenue which would accrue to the Exchequer from Paul Goggins: To ask the Secretary of State for the capital gains tax if the income tax rate for those with Home Department (1) what estimate she has made of an income above the higher rate threshold were (a) 18, the (a) minimum and (b) average early retirement (b) 19, (c) 20, (d) 25, (e) 30, (f) 35 and (g) 40 per costs for a police officer whose services are no longer cent. [6478] required; [6369] (2) what estimate she has made of the average early Mr Gauke: The policy costings document published retirement cost in respect of a police officer with (a) alongside the 2010 Emergency Budget Book sets out 20, (b) 15, (c) 10 and (d) five or fewer years of service the methodology for arriving at such estimates and the whose service is no longer required. [6373] likely effects on revenue: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_costings.pdf Nick Herbert: No such estimates have been made. There is no provision in the police pension schemes for Impact assessments are not required for changes early retirement of a police officer whose services are no which only impact on individuals. longer required. There is separate provision for the early retirement of chief officers in certain circumstances, Child Benefit : Camden which is detailed in Police Negotiating Board Joint Circular five of 2004 as amended by Circular three Glenda Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the of 2010. Exchequer how many people are in receipt of child benefit in (a) Hampstead and Kilburn constituency Yvonne Fletcher and (b) the London borough of (i) Camden and (ii) Brent. [6581] Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will discuss with the Mr Gauke: The latest information on the number of Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth families receiving child benefit, by each parliamentary Affairs the matter of assistance for the Metropolitan constituency, local authority and region is available in police to gain access to Libya for the purposes of its the HMRC snapshot publication “Child Benefit Statistics investigation into the murder of PC Yvonne Fletcher. Geographical Analysis. August 2009”. This can be found [5955] at: Nick Herbert: The murder of WPC Fletcher was a http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- aug09.pdf terrible crime and her family deserve to know the truth. The investigation into her murder is continuing and remains an operational matter for the police. The Foreign Child Trust Fund : Tower Hamlets and Commonwealth Office is in regular contact with the Metropolitan Police Service and continues to press Rushanara Ali: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the Libyan Government to allow them to return. On how many children in (a) Bethnal Green and Bow and 31 May, the Foreign Secretary raised the WPC Fletcher (b) Tower Hamlets have received payments from the case with the Libyan Foreign Minister, Musa Kusa. Child Trust Fund in each year since its inception. [6659] 291W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 292W

Mr Hoban: Each Child Trust Fund account that is The Parliamentary Ombudsman did not make any opened currently receives a payment of £250 from the recommendations on the amount of compensation, but Government with an additional payment of £250 being noted that: made in the case of children in lower income families. “it would be appropriate to consider the potential impact on the Statistics showing the level of Child Trust Fund opening public purse” in each parliamentary constituency and local authority of any payment. area can be viewed on HM Revenue and Customs’ website at: EU Budget http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/stats.htm Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the net contribution has been of the Credit Unions UK to the EU for (a) 2006, (b) 2007 and (c) 2008; and what he expects that contribution to be in (i) 2009, Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (ii) 2010 and (iii) 2011. [6129] if he will take steps to facilitate the use of EU funds to support credit unions in England. [5926] Justine Greening: Table 2.9 of the supplementary material to the emergency Budget 2010, available at Mr Hoban [holding answer 5 July 2010]: There are www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_complete.pdf no general EU funds to support credit unions, although provides the latest projections for the UK’s net contribution some regions of the UK are eligible for Structural Fund to the EU budget for the fiscal years 2008-09 (outturn) money and may make available part of such funds to to 2015-16 (forecasts). The following table contains credit unions. The Coalition Government has pledged historical figures not covered in table 2.9. to bring forward detailed proposals to foster diversity, promote mutuals and create a more competitive banking 2005-06 2006-08 2007-08 industry. Net payments to EU 3.7 2.9 3.5 institutions Departmental Mobile Phones Net contribution to 4.4 3.5 4.2 EU budget Notes: Mr Khalid Mahmood: To ask the Chancellor of the 1. The “Net contribution to EU Budget” is the GNI, VAT and TOR Exchequer pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member contributions (gross contribution) less abatement less receipts. for West Bromwich East of 10 June 2010, Official 2. The “Net payments to EU institutions” is equivalent to the net Report, column 202W, on departmental mobile phones, contribution to EU budget less that part of the UK’s contribution to what the (a) purchase cost of the handset, (b) network the EC budget that is attributed to the external aid programme provider, (c) type of tariff and (d) name of the (DFID/FCO DEL). supplier was of each BlackBerry issued to Ministers in The Government are concerned about the UK’s increasing contributions to the EU budget. The EU his Department. [4004] budget for the period 2007-13 was agreed by the previous Government in 2005, meaning the UK’s contributions Justine Greening [holding answer 24 June 2010]: Mobile cannot easily be reduced. But at a time of painful fiscal phones and Blackberry devices issued for official use consolidation across many EU member states, it is only are provided under a pan-government framework. fair that the EU budget play its part. As the Chancellor Blackberry handset costs are fixed at £125 when supplied told a recent meeting of EU Finance Ministers, a freeze as an upgrade or £235 for a new provision. According in EU spending should be considered. And looking to central records all Treasury ministers were provided ahead to the negotiation of the EU budget for the with new handsets as an upgrade on existing mobile period 2014-20, the Government will strongly defend accounts. All departmental mobile phone devices are the UK’s national interests, and ensure the EU budget is provided by Vodafone and are supplied under the focused on those areas where the EU adds value. Teamwork/Teamwork and Blackberry tariff. The costs provided are excluding VAT. EU Law: Fines Treasury Blackberrys are configured in line with government security standards to enable them to be Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Chancellor of the used for secure email communication. Exchequer (1) on how many occasions the Government has been fined by the European Commission since the rules pertaining to fining states for non-implementation Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation of EU regulations were instituted; and what (a) initial financial correction was set and (b) end financial correction Miss McIntosh: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer was paid after negotiations and appeal in each case; whether he plans to implement in full the recommendations [6299] of the Parliamentary Ombudsman on Equitable Life, (2) on how many occasions the Government has been with particular reference to the recommendations on found in persistent breach of obligations under EU the amount of compensation. [6130] regulations since 2001; what fines were levied in each case; and if he will make a statement. [6300] Mr Hoban: We have committed to implement the Parliamentary and Health Ombudsman’s recommendation Justine Greening: The United Kingdom has never to make fair and transparent payments to Equitable incurred a financial penalty under article 260 of the Life policyholders, through an independent payment treaty on the functioning of the European Union (or scheme, for their relative loss as a consequence of regulatory under the former article 228 (ex article 171) of the failure. treaty establishing the European Community). 293W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 294W

Pregnant Women: Grants Danny Alexander: The June 2010 Budget will promote economic growth in all countries and regions of the UK Jon Trickett: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer including Wales and Bridgend. how many people in Hemsworth constituency have received the health in pregnancy grant since its introduction. Public Finance [6666]

Heidi Alexander: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Lisa Nandy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many health in pregnancy grants were made in whether his policy of transparency on public spending applies to the review of capital expenditure approvals Lewisham East constituency in 2009-10. [6583] since 1 January 2010; and which projects are under Mr Gauke: This information is available only at review in each parliamentary constituency. [5210] disproportionate cost. Danny Alexander: On 17 June I announced the outcome Public Expenditure of a review of 217 projects that had been submitted to the Treasury for re-approval. These projects included Mr Laws: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer both capital and resource expenditure. 12 projects were what estimate he has made of gross public expenditure cancelled as they did not demonstrate value for money, in 2008-09 prices (a) spent in each year since 1990-91 were unaffordable or did not reflect the Government’s and (b) planned in each year to 2015-16; and if he will priorities, and a further 12 projects were suspended as make a statement. [6165] more detailed work is needed as part of the spending review process. As set out in the following lists, some of Danny Alexander: Total Managed Expenditure (TME) these decisions will affect specific constituencies while in 2008-09 prices since 1990-91 was as follows:- others relate to programmes that apply nationally: 1. List of projects cancelled Real TME (2008-09 prices) £billion Project Constituency

1990-91 370 Stonehenge Visitor Centre1 Salisbury 1991-92 390 1992-93 408 Local Authority Leader Boards National Programme 1993-94 415 Sheffield Forgemasters International Sheffield South East 1994-95 427 Limited 1995-96 431 Rollout of the Future Jobs Fund2 National Programme 1996-97 422 Six month offer recruitment subsidies National Programme 1997-98 419 1998-99 422 Extension of Young Person’s National Programme 1999-2000 429 Guarantee to 2011-12 2000-01 449 Two-year Jobseeker’s Guarantee National Programme 2001-02 470 Active Challenge Routes - Walk National Programme 2002-03 493 England 2003-04 518 2004-05 545 County Sports Partnerships National Programme 2005-06 569 North Tees and Hartlepool hospital Stockton North; Hartlepool 2006-07 580 Local Authority Business Growth National Programme 2007-08 597 Initiative (LABGI) 2008-09 630 2009-10 657 Outukumpu Sheffield South East Note: 2. List of projects suspended The 2009-10 figure is the estimated outturn. Project Constituency TME in 2008-09 prices planned to 2015-16 is as follows: Libraries Modernisation Programme National Programme Sheffield Retail Quarter Sheffield Central 2010-11 664 Kent Thameside Strategic Transport Gravesham and Dartford 2011-12 655 Programme 2012-13 650 University Enterprise Capital Fund National Programme 2013-14 644 Newton Scholarships National Programme 2014-15 640 Health Research Support Initiative National Programme 2015-16 640 Leeds Holt Park Well-being Centre Leeds North West Birmingham Magistrates Court Birmingham Ladywood Public Expenditure: Wales Successor Deterrent Extension to To be decided Concept Phase Long Lead Items3 Search and Rescue Helicopters—joint Manufactured in United Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the procurement between DFT and MOD States Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect A14 Road Cambridge North West, of the proposals in Budget 2010 on economic growth in South and South East; (a) Wales and (b) Bridgend County borough council Huntingdon; Bedfordshire area in each of the next five years. [6102] North East 295W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 296W

1 Government funding for this programme has been withdrawn. If applied in the old year which is a normal part of the non-government funding is identified approval to proceed could be PAYE process. HMRC continues to correct codes, where given. 2 Includes efficiency savings from tighter management of under necessary, as part of its day to day work. performing Future Jobs Fund providers. HMRC has provided advice on its website about 3 Successor Deterrent Extension to Concept Phase Long Lead Items these issues and continues to be in regular contact with will be reviewed as part of the broader Trident value for money employers, pension providers and their representative review, which will report in the coming weeks. Any necessary long lead items would subsequently be procured from various suppliers in bodies to ensure they are kept properly informed. the US and UK. Overall the introduction of the national insurance I also laid in the Libraries of both Houses of Parliament and pay as you earn service computer system (NPS) and a full list of projects that were not cancelled or suspended work HMRC has conducted this year will ensure more as part of this exercise: accurate tax coding than ever before. http://www.parliament.uk/deposits/depositedpapers/2010/ DEP2010-1327.doc Savings Gateway For these projects the Treasury does not hold a complete and detailed list by constituency. Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the take-up rate was in the Savings Gateway pilots. Public Sector: Pay [5743]

John McDonnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Hoban: Two pilots of the Saving Gateway were what savings he estimates will be made as a result of the conducted between 2002 and 2007. 1,500 accounts were two-year public sector pay freeze in each year from opened in the first pilot, and 22,000 in the second. The 2010-11 to 2014-15. [5380] reports on both pilots which detail their sampling approaches are available via the HM Treasury website Danny Alexander: This policy will save £3.3 billion a archive. year by 2014-15. The freeze will also apply in health The emergency Budget announced that the Saving workforces, but savings will be recycled within the NHS. Gateway will not be introduced in July 2010, given the need to reduce the UK’s budget deficit. Regional Growth Fund Tax Allowances: Renewable Energy Dr Whitehead: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with reference to the 2010 Budget, what estimate he has David Morris: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer made of the size of the regional growth fund to fund whether he plans to bring forward proposals to offer tax regional capital projects in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13. reductions to house builders who integrate renewable [5644] energy into new developments. [5874]

Danny Alexander: The Deputy Prime Minister Justine Greening: The feed-in tariff (FIT) scheme announced on 29 June 2010 that the regional growth exists to incentivise investment in small-scale renewable fund for 2011-12 and 2012-13 would total £1 billion. energy, including renewable generation installed by A White Paper setting out further details will published developers. The Chancellor takes decisions regarding in the autumn. tax policy as part of the usual Budget process. Revenue and Customs: Standards Tax Credit

Richard Fuller: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Heidi Alexander: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent steps HM Revenue and Customs has taken how many households in receipt of tax credits have an to improve levels of accuracy in the processing of tax annual income of over £30,000 in Lewisham East codes. [4616] constituency; [6596]

Mr Gauke: Following the issue of tax codes for Gloria De Piero: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2010-11 in January 2010 HMRC identified several situations how many households in receipt of tax credits have an where, due to a mismatch between data held on HMRC’s income of over £30,000 in (a) Ashfield, (b) Argyll and systems, and data supplied by employers and pensions Bute and (c) Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency; [6637] providers individuals may have received an incorrect coding for 2010-11. Glenda Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Before the start of the new tax year, HMRC worked (1) how many households in Hampstead and Kilburn to identify and review cases where incorrect coding constituency with an annual income over £30,000 are in notices could have been issued. They corrected where receipt of tax credits; [6579] necessary the underlying records through a mix of (2) how many households in the London borough of automated repairs and clerical reviews. They ensured (a) Camden and (b) Brent in receipt of tax credits that no codes were issued to employers or pension have an annual income over £30,000. [6580] providers until they had conducted these reviews in order to prevent incorrect codes leading to incorrect tax Mr Gauke: Analysis of the number of households deductions. with incomes over £30,000 in the a fore mentioned HMRC completed reviewing the bulk of the cases in constituencies is shown in Table 1 as follow.This information time for the start of 2010-11. Where no new code was is based on provisional information of families receiving issued employers continued to operate the code that tax credits as at April 2010. 297W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 298W

the context of the Budget as a whole. Annex A provides Number of households with Constituency/London borough Income over £30,000 an analysis of the distributional impact of the Budget: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexa.pdf Argyll and Bute 2,290 In particular, paragraph C.58 sets out the Office for Ashfield 3,225 Budget Responsibility’s (OBR) views on the incidence Brent 4,310 of VAT. Paragraph C.54 and Table C8 describe the Brent East 1,040 OBR’s view of the effect on GDP over time of Budget Brent South 1,555 measures, including VAT. G.39 and C.64 describe the Camden 1,200 OBR’s projections of tax receipts, including VAT. Hampstead and Highgate 515 Lewisham East 1,445 VAT: NHS and Local Government Na h-Eileanan an lar 780 Dr Whiteford: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Further details about the snapshot data used for this what the cost will be in each year from 2010-11 onwards analysis can be found in the HMRC snapshot publication for which information is available to (a) each NHS “Child and Working Tax Credits. Geographical Analysis, board and (b) each local authority of the decision to April 2010”. This is available at: increase the rate of value added tax. [5905] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- stats.htm Mr Gauke: This information is not available. Public bodies are funded inclusive of tax costs. There Taxation: Banks are schemes that allow local authorities to recover VAT in respect of their non business activities and NHS Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Trusts to recover VAT in respect of certain contracted Exchequer if he will publish the minutes of each meeting out services. But the amount of VAT that such bodies in his Department at which his proposed bank levy was do not recover is not routinely recorded. discussed. [5942] Welfare Tax Credits Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have discussions with a wide variety of organisations in the Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer public and private sectors as part of the process of how many households in Makerfield constituency in policy development and delivery. As was the case with receipt of tax credits have an income of over £30,000. previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s [6197] practice to provide details of all such discussions. Kate Green: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the how many households in receipt of tax credits in Exchequer what factors he took into account in Stretford and Urmston constituency have an income of determining the level of his proposed bank levy. [5943] over £30,000. [5846]

Mr Hoban: The proposed rate reflects the risks posed Barbara Keeley: To ask the Chancellor of the by the banking sector to the financial system and wider Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax economy, while taking account of current economic credits have an income of over £30,000 in Worsley and circumstances and the UK’s competitive position. Eccles South constituency. [6080]

VAT Ann McKechin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax credits in (a) Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Glasgow North and (b) Ealing Central and Acton what assessment he has made of the likely effects of the constituency have an income of over £30,000. [6185] proposed increase in the standard rate of value added tax on (a) charities, (b) road fuel prices, (c) construction Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Chancellor of the work for which value added tax is payable, (d) the retail Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax industry, (e) low income pensioner households and (f) credits in (a) Slough, (b) Salisbury and (c) Scarborough the prospects for the economic situation. [6323] and Whitby constituency have an income of over £30,000. [6006] Mr Gauke: The Budget’s VAT rate increase was driven by the need to address the deficit, which will benefit Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the everyone. The effects of the rate change are set out in Exchequer how many households in receipt of tax Budget 2010: credits have an income of over £30,000 in Houghton and Sunderland South constituency. [5896] http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_complete.pdf The associated impact assessment, which describes Diana R. Johnson: To ask the Chancellor of the the compliance costs for business, was published alongside Exchequer how many households in Kingston upon the Budget: Hull North constituency in receipt of tax credits have http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/ an annual income over £30,000. [6520] junebudget_impact_assessments.pdf The impact of the VAT increase depends on expenditure, Mr Gauke: The number of households receiving tax which varies considerably even among households of credits with an income over £30,000 in the aforementioned similar composition. It also needs to be considered in constituencies are shown in Table 1 as follows: 299W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 300W

The Department for Transport and its Government Car Number of households with Constituency income over £30,000 and Despatch Agency are working with Departments to effect the transition to the new arrangements. Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bush 975 The Ministerial Code is available on the Cabinet Eccles 2,455 Office website. Glasgow Maryhill 775 Kingston-upon-Hull North 1,815 Immigration: Asylum Makerfield 2,920 Salisbury 3,220 Scarborough and Whitby 2,065 Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Slough 3,045 how many claims for asylum for which legal aid has been granted and for whom the charity Refugee Migrant Stretford and Urmston 2,800 Justice has been retained as legal representation have Sunderland South 2,010 been made but not yet completed. [6543] Worsley 2,580 These estimates are based on provisional information Mr Djanogly: The Legal Services Commission is working on families receiving tax credits as at April 2010. Further with the administrators of RMJ to establish how many details about this data can be found in the HMRC active files they have but this information is not currently snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax Credits. available. I will write to the hon. Member when the Geographical Analysis, April 2010”. This is available at: number is obtained. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- stats.htm Prison Accommodation

Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for JUSTICE Justice what estimate he has made of prison capacity in each of the next three years. [6601] Courts: Video Conferencing Mr Blunt: The Government believe that we need Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice enough prison places for those whom the courts judge if he will extend the virtual courts pilot to Bradford should receive a custodial sentence. The Core Capacity magistrates court. [6329] programme will increase capacity to 94,000 places by Mr Djanogly: There are no plans at present to extend the end of 2012. the virtual courts pilot to Bradford magistrates court. We are carrying out a full review of rehabilitation Virtual courts have been piloted in London, at and sentencing and will explore ways of increasing Camberwell Green magistrates court and in Kent, at private and voluntary sector involvement in the justice Medway magistrates court. The virtual court focussed system. We are working on the details underlying those on testing whether first hearings in the magistrates objectives, including economic analysis to look at various courts could be undertaken through the use of technology options. by connecting police stations to magistrates courts via Long-term decisions on prison capacity programmes video link. The pilot is currently being independently will be taken in the light of these initiatives. evaluated. Departmental Official Cars Prison Sentences: Reoffenders

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice which Ministers in his Department have used an allocated how many prisoners who had served a sentence of six ministerial car to travel between his Department and months or less re-offended within 12 months of discharge the House of Commons on each day since 21 May in (a) 2006, (b) 2007 and (c) 2008. [6105] 2010. [5552] Mr Blunt: The available data on reoffending following Mr Blunt: The Secretary of State, the Minister of a custodial sentence of six months or less is provided State for Justice and the two Parliamentary Under- the following table—please note that this breakdown is Secretaries of State at the Ministry of Justice currently based on custodial sentences awarded by the court. have use of an allocated ministerial car during the week. This may include journeys between the Department Number and proportion of adult offenders reoffending after release from custody in the first quarter of 2006, 2007 and 2008 having been and the Palace of Westminster. awarded a sentence of six months or less The Home Office provides the arrangements in relation Number of to the Minister of State for Policing and Criminal offenders Justice, who also has ministerial responsibilities at the discharged from Number of Percentage of Ministry of Justice. sentences of six offenders offenders months or less reoffending reoffending The new Ministerial Code, published on 21 May (January to within within 2010, contains changes that affect ministerial entitlement March) 12 months 12 months to travel by Government car. It states that 2006 7,533 4,722 62.7 “the number of Ministers with allocated cars and drivers will be kept to a minimum, taking into account security and other 2007 6,516 4,200 64.5 relevant considerations. Other Ministers will be entitled to use 2008 8,410 5,493 65.3 cars from the Government Car Service Pool as needed.” 301W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 302W

Further information on adult reoffending is available Full-time equivalent staff in post by establishment at: Establishment FTE as at 31 March 2010 http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ Gartree 425 reoffendingofadults.htm Glen Parva 444 Gloucester 203 Prison Service: Manpower Grendon 307 Guys Marsh 269 Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Haslar 96 how many prison service staff are working in (a) frontline Haverigg 312 delivery and (b) elsewhere in each establishment on the Hewell 610 prison estate in England and Wales. [5661] High Down 490 Highpoint 439 Mr Blunt: All staff working within Prison Service Hindley 418 establishments deliver frontline services. Information Hollesley Bay 141 on the number of directly employed staff within each Holloway 476 establishment on 31 March 2010 is provided in the Holme House 500 following table. Hull 500 Full-time equivalent staff in post by establishment Huntercombe 272 Establishment FTE as at 31 March 2010 Isis 56 Isle of Wight 858 Public Sector Kennet 276 Acklington 448 Kingston 124 Ashwell 267 Kirkham 224 Askham Grange 74 Kirklevington Grange 129 Aylesbury 288 Lancaster 162 Bedford 241 Lancaster Farms 369 Belmarsh 891 Latchmere House 79 Birmingham 735 Leeds 555 Blantyre House 65 Leicester 226 Blundeston 282 Lewes 342 Brinsford 386 Leyhill 191 Bristol 330 Lincoln 368 Brixton 333 Lindholme 476 Buckley Hall 197 Littlehey 499 Bullingdon 464 Liverpool 608 Bullwood Hall 146 Long Lartin 683 Bure 281 Low Newton 278 Canterbury 178 Maidstone 280 Cardiff 417 Manchester 845 Castington 364 Moorland 479 Channings Wood 334 Morton Hall 209 Chelmsford 381 New Hall 366 Coldingley 258 North Sea Camp 133 Cookham Wood 211 Northallerton 128 Dartmoor 310 Norwich 363 Deerbolt 329 Nottingham 508 Dorchester 172 Onley 400 Dover 244 Pentonville 588 Downview 208 Portland 363 Drake Hall 173 Preston 436 Durham 542 Ranby 517 East Sutton Park 58 Reading 177 Eastwood Park 259 Risley 476 Edmunds Hill 214 Rochester 444 Erlestoke 230 Send 173 Everthorpe 300 Exeter 288 Sheppey Cluster 1,224 Featherstone 353 Shepton Mallet 130 Feltham 709 Shrewsbury 202 Ford 156 Stafford 378 Foston Hall 283 Stocken 360 Frankland 961 Stoke Heath 418 Full Sutton 735 Styal 322 Garth 481 Sudbury 190 303W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 304W

Full-time equivalent staff in post by establishment The following tables show the number of (a) non Establishment FTE as at 31 March 2010 UK and (b) non EU nationals of each country in all prison establishments in England and Wales, from the Swansea 220 most recent available data at the end of March 2010. Swinfen Hall 364 The Mount 329 These figures have been drawn from administrative The Verne 248 IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Thorn Cross 186 system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Usk/Prescoed 162 and processing. Wakefield 715 Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex, England and Wandsworth 688 Wales—31 March 2010 Warren Hill 226 Nationality Male Female Total Wayland 391 All nationalities 80,894 4,290 85,184 Wealstun 355 British nationals 67,655 3,357 71,012 Wellingborough 292 Foreign nationals 10,556 811 11,367 Werrington 170 Nationality not 2,683 122 2,805 Wetherby 357 recorded Whatton 428 Whitemoor 738 Total Africa 2,576 222 2,798 Winchester 339 Algeria 172 0 172 Woodhill 734 Angola 74 5 79 Wormwood Scrubs 536 Benin 1 0 1 Wymott 510 Botswana 3 1 4 Public sector total 45,079 Burundi 9 0 9 Cameroon 32 2 34 Private Sector Central African 22 1 23 Altcourse 614 Republic Ashfield 449 Congo 124 8 132 Bronzefield 389 Congo, Democratic 404 Doncaster 549 Republic of the Dovegate 544 Egypt 13 0 13 Forest Bank 558 Equatorial Guinea 1 0 1 Lowdham Grange 436 Ethiopia 63 5 68 Parc 604 Gabon 1 0 1 Peterborough 562 Gambia 65 3 68 Rye Hill 248 Ghana 138 14 152 Wolds 217 Guinea 12 0 12 Private sector total 5,170 Guinea-Bissau 1 0 1 Ivory Coast 36 0 36 Kenya 56 7 63 Prisoners Abroad Liberia 20 4 24 Libyan Arab 20 0 20 Jamahiriya Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Malawi 14 1 15 Justice (1) how many non-UK nationals from (a) EU Mali 1 0 1 member states and (b) non-EU member states are Mauritania 2 1 3 detained in prison (i) on remand and (ii) serving sentences; Mauritius 10 0 10 [6198] Morocco 48 0 48 (2) how many non-UK nationals of each country of Mozambique 3 0 3 citizenship are in prison. [6202] Namibia 3 0 3 Niger 11 2 13 Mr Blunt: From the most recent available data, March Nigeria 645 89 734 2010, there are 880 non-UK nationals from EU member Rwanda 16 0 16 states in prison on remand and a further 2,400 serving Senegal 9 0 9 sentences. There were 1,500 non-EU nationals in prison Sierra Leone 63 5 68 on remand and a further 5,400 serving sentences. Somalia 442 10 452 These figures have been rounded—numbers from 1,000 South Africa 109 23 132 to 99,999 are rounded to the nearest 100 and numbers Sudan 43 2 45 from 10 to 999 are rounded to the nearest 10. Tanzania 23 2 25 The number of foreign national prisoners held in all Togo 505 prison establishments in England and Wales by nationality Tunisia 18 0 18 is published quarterly in the population in custody Uganda 63 10 73 bulletin, found under the following link: Zambia 14 3 17 http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ Zimbabwe 167 24 191 populationincustody.htm 305W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 306W

Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex, England and Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex, England and Wales—31 March 2010 Wales—31 March 2010 Nationality Male Female Total Nationality Male Female Total

Total Asia 2,204 147 2,351 Czech Republic 80 12 92 Afghanistan 123 1 124 Denmark 16 1 17 Bangladesh 188 7 195 Estonia 26 0 26 Cambodia 1 0 1 Finland 4 0 4 China 385 42 427 France 142 12 154 India 328 11 339 Georgia 8 0 8 Indonesia 1 0 1 Germany 841195 Japan 303Gibraltar 4 0 4 Korea, DPR (North 123Greece 13 0 13 Korea) Hungary 26 6 32 Korea, Republic of 5 0 5 Iceland 0 3 3 Malaysia 37 5 42 Irish Republic 657 25 682 Mongolia 3 1 4 Italy 80 2 82 Myanmar 3 0 3 Kazakhstan 2 0 2 Nepal 10 1 11 Kyrgyzstan 1 1 2 Pakistan 413 8 421 Latvia 140 9 149 Philippines 18 8 26 Liechtenstein 1 0 1 Singapore 2 2 4 Lithuania 338 10 348 Sri Lanka 147 0 147 Macedonia 4 0 4 Taiwan (Nationalist 213Malta 3 0 3 Chinese) Moldova 15 1 16 Thailand 2 5 7 Netherlands 99 15 114 Vietnam 532 53 585 Norway 7 0 7 Poland 657 13 670 Total Central and 252 45 297 Portugal 212 13 225 South America Romania 358 47 405 Argentina 5 3 8 Russian Federation 112 12 124 Belize 0 1 1 San Marino 1 0 1 Bolivia 7 1 8 Serbia and 38 0 38 Brazil 66 14 80 Montenegro Chile 8 0 8 Slovakia 54 6 60 Colombia 71 5 76 Slovenia 3 0 3 Costa Rica 2 0 2 Spain 65 10 75 Ecuador 9 0 9 Sweden 17 4 21 French Guiana 2 2 4 Switzerland 6 1 7 Guatemala 4 1 5 Turkey 170 1 171 Guyana 29 4 33 Turkmenistan 1 0 1 Mexico 20 11 31 Uzbekistan 8 0 8 Nicaragua 3 0 3 Panama 1 0 1 Total Middle East 562 12 574 Paraguay202 Iran 205 8 213 Peru 3 1 4 Iraq 240 1 241 Suriname 3 0 3 Israel 35 2 37 Uruguay 1 0 1 Jordan 707 Venezuela 16 2 18 Kuwait 12 1 13 Lebanon 16 0 16 Total North America 106 22 128 Oman 2 0 2 Canada 26 6 32 Qatar 1 0 1 United States 80 16 96 Saudi Arabia 16 0 16 Syrian Arab Republic 12 0 12 Total Europe1 3,746 252 3,998 United Arab Emirates 4 0 4 Albania 163 4 167 Yemen, Republic of 12 0 12 Armenia 9 0 9 Austria 12 2 14 Total Oceania 39 3 42 Azerbaijan 3 0 3 Australia 24 3 27 Belgium 30 3 33 Fiji 7 0 7 Bosnia and 10 4 14 Kiribati 1 0 1 Herzegovina New Zealand 5 0 5 Bulgaria 28 24 52 Papua New Guinea 1 0 1 Croatia 9 0 9 Samoa 1 0 1 Cyprus 30 0 30 307W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 308W

Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex, England and Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex England and Wales—31 March 2010 Wales—31 March 2010 Nationality Male Female Total Nationality Male Female Total

Total West Indies 1,069 108 1,177 Niger 11 2 13 Anguilla 1 0 1 Nigeria 645 89 734 Aruba 1 0 1 Rwanda 16 0 16 Bahamas 2 0 2 Senegal 9 0 9 Barbados 31 8 39 Sierra Leone 63 5 68 Bermuda 2 1 3 Somalia 442 10 452 Cuba 3 0 3 South Africa 109 23 132 Dominica 14 1 15 Sudan 43 2 45 Dominican Republic 1 0 1 Tanzania 23 2 25 Grenada 18 1 19 Togo 5 0 5 Jamaica 895 65 960 Tunisia 18 0 18 Montserrat 13 0 13 Uganda 63 10 73 Netherlands Antilles 6 3 9 Zambia 14 3 17 St Kitts and Nevis 5 0 5 Zimbabwe 167 24 191 St Lucia 20 11 31 St Vincent and the 15 2 17 Total Asia 2,204 147 2,351 Grenadines Afghanistan 123 1 124 Trinidad and Tobago 41 16 57 Bangladesh 188 7 195 Virgin Islands 1 0 1 Cambodia 1 0 1 China 385 42 427 Total Other 202India 328 11 339 1 Excluding UK nationals Indonesia 1 0 1 Data Sources and Quality Japan 3 0 3 These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems. Care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, but the detail Korea, DPR (North 12 3 collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale Korea) recording system, and so although shown to the last individual, the Korea, Republic of 5 0 5 figure may not be accurate to that level. Malaysia 37 5 42 Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex England and Mongolia 3 1 4 Wales—31 March 2010 Myanmar 3 0 3 Nationality Male Female Total Nepal 10 1 11 Total Africa 2,576 222 2,798 Pakistan 413 8 421 Algeria 172 0 172 Philippines 18 8 26 Angola 74 5 79 Singapore 2 2 4 Benin 1 0 1 Sri Lanka 147 0 147 Botswana 3 1 4 Taiwan (Nationalist 21 3 Burundi 9 0 9 Chinese) Cameroon 32 2 34 Thailand 2 5 7 Central African 22 1 23 Vietnam 532 53 585 Republic Congo 124 8 132 Total Central and 252 45 297 Congo, Democratic 40 4South America Republic of the Argentina 5 3 8 Egypt 13 0 13 Belize 0 1 1 Equatorial Guinea 1 0 1 Bolivia 7 1 8 Ethiopia 63 5 68 Brazil 66 14 80 Gabon 1 0 1 Chile 8 0 8 Gambia 65 3 68 Colombia 71 5 76 Ghana 138 14 152 Costa Rica 2 0 2 Guinea 12 0 12 Ecuador 9 0 9 Guinea-Bissau 1 0 1 French Guiana 2 2 4 Ivory Coast 36 0 36 Guatemala 4 1 5 Kenya 56 7 63 Guyana 29 4 33 Liberia 20 4 24 Mexico 20 11 31 Libyan Arab 20 0 20 Nicaragua 3 0 3 Jamahiriya Panama 1 0 1 Malawi 14 1 15 Paraguay 2 0 2 Mali 1 0 1 Mauritania 2 1 3 Peru 3 1 4 Mauritius 10 0 10 Suriname 3 0 3 Morocco 48 0 48 Uruguay 1 0 1 Mozambique 3 0 3 Venezuela 16 2 18 Namibia 3 0 3 309W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 310W

Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex England and Table 1: Population in prison by nationality and sex England and Wales—31 March 2010 Wales—31 March 2010 Nationality Male Female Total Nationality Male Female Total

Total North America 106 22 128 Jamaica 895 65 960 Canada 26 6 32 Montserrat 13 0 13 United States 80 16 96 Netherlands Antilles 6 3 9 St Kitts and Nevis 5 0 5 Total Europe1 572 27 599 St Lucia 20 11 31 Albania 163 4 167 St Vincent and the 15 2 17 Armenia 9 0 9 Grenadines Azerbaijan 3 0 3 Trinidad and Tobago 41 16 57 Bosnia and 10 4 14 Virgin Islands 1 0 1 Herzegovina Croatia 9 0 9 Total Other 20 2 Georgia 8 0 8 1 Excluding UK and EU nationals Gibraltar 4 0 4 Data Sources and Quality These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems. Care Iceland 0 3 3 is taken when processing and analysing the returns, but the detail Kazakhstan 2 0 2 collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale Kyrgyzstan 1 1 2 recording system, and so although shown to the last individual, the Liechtenstein 1 0 1 figure may not be accurate to that level. Macedonia 4 0 4 Prisoners’ Transfers: Rehabilitation Moldova 15 1 16 Norway 7 0 7 Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Russian Federation 112 12 124 Justice (1) how many prisoners were transferred between San Marino 1 0 1 prisons to undertake rehabilitation as part of their Serbia and 38 0 38 parole conditions in the latest period for which figures Montenegro are available; [5810] Switzerland 6 1 7 (2) if he will take steps to enable all prisoners to Turkey 170 1 171 undertake rehabilitation as part of their parole Turkmenistan 1 0 1 conditions without having to transfer between prisons. Uzbekistan 8 0 8 [5811]

Total Middle East 562 12 574 Mr Blunt: Information on the number of prisoners Iran 205 8 213 transferred to undertake rehabilitation as part of their Iraq 240 1 241 parole conditions is not centrally recorded, and could Israel 35 2 37 only be obtained at disproportionate cost by checking Jordan 7 0 7 the files of all prisoners at each establishment who may Kuwait 12 1 13 have been transferred. Lebanon 16 0 16 Prisoners often present a broad range of risks and Oman 2 0 2 needs which potentially need to be addressed to reduce Qatar 1 0 1 their risk of re-offending on release. Every prison provides Saudi Arabia 16 0 16 a variety of services, but significant resources would be Syrian Arab Republic 12 0 12 required if each prison were capable of holding every United Arab Emirates 4 0 4 category of prisoner and to deliver all the required Yemen, Republic of 12 0 12 services to prevent prisoners being transferred. Prisoners are transferred for a variety of reasons including, for example, to access particular activities or specialised Total Oceania 39 3 42 services, promote family ties, to provide an opportunity Australia 24 3 27 to demonstrate reduced risk in a lower category Fiji 7 0 7 establishment, or to maintain good order and control. Kiribati 1 0 1 It is however recognised that transfers should be kept to New Zealand 5 0 5 a minimum where practicable to support continuity of Papua New Guinea 1 0 1 care. The National Offender Management Service continues Samoa 1 0 1 to routinely review the provision of services across the estate in order to provide the most effective use of Total West Indies 1,069 108 1,177 resources. Anguilla 1 0 1 Aruba 1 0 1 Bahamas 2 0 2 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Barbados 31 8 39 Bermuda 2 1 3 Abdelbasit Ali Mohmed al Megrahi Cuba 3 0 3 Dominica 14 1 15 Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Dominican Republic 1 0 1 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss Grenada 18 1 19 with the First Minister the question of whether to hold 311W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 312W a public inquiry into the decision to release Mr Al-Megrahi Counter-terrorism: Finance on compassionate grounds, in light of Mr Al-Megrahi still being alive. [5683] Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much is Alistair Burt: Our thoughts remain with the families planned to be spent on his Department’s Counter- of the victims of Lockerbie. My right hon. Friend, the Terrorism and Radicalisation Programme in 2010-11. Foreign Secretary, made clear his view at the time, that [5696] Mr Al-Megrahi’s compassionate release by Scottish Ministers was a mistake. However, the question of Alistair Burt: As my right hon. Friend the Secretary whether it was appropriate, including any public inquiry, of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs announced is for the Scottish authorities. I note the Scottish Parliament’s in his written statement to Parliament on 29 June 2010, Justice Committee published a report on 5 February Official Report, column 38WS, following his review of 2010 examining the process followed by the Cabinet the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s programme Secretary for Justice, Kenny MacAskill MSP, in making spend the budget allocation for the Counter Terrorism the decision that led to Mr Al-Megrahi’s release. and Radicalisation Programme for the current financial year (2010-2011) will be maintained at £38 million.

Afghanistan: Religious Freedom Departmental Public Expenditure

Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs if he will hold discussions Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much was with his Afghan counterpart on the treatment of Afghan spent on (a) refreshments and (b) furnishings in his Christian converts. [6846] private office in each year from 2005 to 2010. [5622]

Alistair Burt: We are aware of reports of the Deputy Alistair Burt: Expenditure on refreshments cannot be Secretary of the Afghan Lower House of Parliament’s fully disaggregated from total spending on meetings remarks regarding the execution of Christian converts and events. The majority of the furniture was replaced from Islam. The remarks were made during a debate in 2007-08 as it either did not meet current health and over a recent series of television reports, which showed safety regulations or was in a bad state of repair. The video footage of Afghans converting to Christianity. cost was £42,517 in 2007-08 and £598 in 2008-09, and Under Afghan law, proselytising is illegal and conversion nil other years. from Islam is a capital offence. The Government strongly support the right to freedom Departmental Training of religion or belief. We are working to support all individuals who face discrimination and persecution on Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign the basis of religion, including Christians, wherever and Commonwealth Affairs what training has been they are in the world. Article 2 of the Afghan constitution provided for Ministers in his Department since the provides for freedom of religion, and we expect the formation of the present administration; and at what Afghan Government to fully implement this. We have a cost. [6454] regular dialogue with the Afghan Government on human rights, including on the need to ensure the security of all Alistair Burt: Foreign and Commonwealth Office Afghans, regardless of religion. In addition, we will Ministers attended the Ministerial Induction course run raise particular cases of concern with the Afghan by the National School of Government at no cost to the Government. We have not received any confirmed reports office. Ministers will carefully consider the opportunity of Afghan Christian converts being prosecuted or put for constructive and cost effective training in the future. on trial. Exports

Bosnia and Herzegovina: Politics and Government David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what services his Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Department provides to small and medium-sized enterprises Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent wishing to export their products. [5875] representations he has received on the future of the Office of the High Representative in Bosnia and Mr Prisk: I have been asked to reply. Herzegovina; and if he will make a statement. [6164] Government delivers services for exporters through UK Trade and Investment. UKTI organises its trade Mr Lidington: The Peace Implementation Council services under two headings: ‘Developing your international met in Sarajevo on 29-30 June. Officials discussed progress trade potential’ for new and inexperienced exporters towards the objectives and conditions necessary for taking their first steps in international business; and closure of the Office of the High Representative. As ‘Accessing foreign markets’ for experienced exporters these have not been completed, no decision on closure who are seeking to expand into new markets. Full was taken. details of these services can be found on UKTI’s website: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk encouraged Bosnian leaders urgently to address the In 2009-10 UKTI’s trade services helped 23,600 outstanding conditions. companies to export and compete in global markets. 313W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 314W

Members: Correspondence Alistair Burt: It is the longstanding policy of successive Governments not to comment on security and intelligence Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for matters. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects to reply to the letter dated 20 May 2010 from the right Turkey: Politics and Government hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Ghulam Sarwar. [6338] Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent steps Alistair Burt: We did not receive an original copy of he has taken to seek to reduce the incidence of extremism the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton’s letter in Turkey. [3988] of 20 May 2010. After speaking with the right hon. Member’s office we have now received a copy and will Mr Lidington: Turkey is a key partner on tackling reply as soon as possible. counter terrorism and extremism. The UK discusses these issues with Turkey on a regular basis. Most recently Sri Lanka the Turkish Interior Minister Atalay discussed counter terrorism with the Home Secretary during his visit to the UK on 28-29 June 2010. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when officials from his Department last visited the Jaffna Peninsula. [6616] DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Alistair Burt: Our acting high commissioner and other members of staff from our high commission in Colombo visited the Jaffna Peninsula on 28 and 29 June Constituencies 2010. They met key government, military, political and religious figures, as well as businesses and humanitarian Chris Evans: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether organisations. They assessed the security situation, he has estimated the number of seats held by an hon. humanitarian requirements and opportunities for Member from (a) the Labour party, (b) the Conservative investment and economic development. party and (c) the Liberal Democrat party which would be lost under his plans to equalise the number of Sri Lanka: Human Rights registered voters in each constituency. [5266] Mr Harper: As my right hon. Friend the Deputy John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Prime Minister announced on 5 July 2010, Official and Commonwealth Affairs when he last discussed Report, column 24W a Bill will be introduced before the human rights issues in Sri Lanka with his Sri Lankan summer recess to implement the coalition agreement counterpart. [6617] commitment to make provision for the creation of fewer and more equal sized constituencies. Parliament Alistair Burt: I spoke with the Sri Lankan Minister of will have the opportunity to debate its provisions. The External Affairs,GLPeiris, on 16 June, when I raised independent Boundary Commissions will carry out their the issue of human rights and in particular the role of task, as always, in a fair and thorough way. the recently established “Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission”. Dissolution

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what and Commonwealth Affairs what his latest assessment plans he has to hold a consultation on proposals for a is of the human rights situation in Sri Lanka. [6619] 55 per cent. threshold for the dissolution of a five-year fixed-term Parliament; and if he will publish all Alistair Burt: Despite some improvement in the human representations he has received on the proposals. [5063] rights situation in Sri Lanka, we are concerned about the situation of journalists and human rights defenders, Mr Harper: As my right hon. Friend the Deputy the lack of adequate investigations of alleged violations Prime Minister announced in the House of Commons of human rights concerning abductions and enforced on 5 July 2010, Official Report, column 23-25. The disappearances, arbitrary detentions and extra-judicial Government have listened carefully to what has been killings. We continue to raise these concerns both bilaterally said on both sides of the House about its proposals for with the Government of Sri Lanka and through the fixed-term Parliaments, and has decided that a majority EU. We repeatedly call upon the Government of Sri of two-thirds will be needed to pass a dissolution motion, Lanka to investigate reports of human rights abuses as opposed to the 55% first suggested. wherever they occur. Electoral Reform: Referendums Tracey Lee Ann Foley Helen Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign he plans to introduce restrictions on the publication of and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Secret promotional material by (a) central and (b) local Intelligence Service holds information on Tracey Lee government in the period ahead of a referendum on Ann Foley. [5822] electoral reform. [5471] 315W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 316W

Mr Harper: Section 125 of the Political Parties, Elections Chris Evans: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister when and Referendums Act 2000 imposes a restriction on the he proposes to bring forward proposals for elections for publication of promotional material related to a referendum the House of Lords. [5264] by either central or local government in the 28 days prior to the poll. Mr Harper: A committee chaired by the Deputy Prime Minister is charged with producing a draft Bill Helen Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what on House of Lords Reform by no later than the end of plans he has to publish information on different voting this year. The draft Bill will then be subject to pre-legislative systems in advance of his proposed referendum on scrutiny. The Government hope that this will be by a electoral reform. [5473] Joint Committee of both Houses. It will then be for the Government to take a decision Mr Harper: It is clearly important that voters understand on introducing legislation. the voting systems that will be the subject of the referendum Parliamentary Reform Bill on electoral reform, in order to enable them to make an informed choice. The Government will consider the best means of ensuring that this is the case. John Healey: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how many Cabinet Office officials are working on preparations for the Parliamentary Reform Bill. [5116] Electoral Register Mr Harper: The Government have an ambitious political Mr Straw: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what and constitutional reform agenda. As the Deputy Prime estimate he has made of the costs of implementing his Minister set out in his statement in the House of Commons policy of individual voter registration. [6351] on 5 July 2010, Official Report, column 23, the Government will shortly introduce legislation for fixed parliamentary Mr Harper: The Government are considering different terms and for a referendum on the Alternative Vote approaches to speeding up the implementation of individual system and for a review of constituency boundaries. voter registration. We will set out our plans in due Final decisions have yet to been taken on the content, course. titles or timing of many of the Bills which will deliver the Government’s parliamentary reform agenda. I am therefore unable to provide a precise figure for the House of Lords number of staff who will work on the legislation. However, the work on the legislation will form some Chris Evans: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what of that undertaken by the officials transferred as the plans the Government has to recommend the Cabinet Office’s new Constitution Group from the Ministry nomination of new members of the House of Lords of Justice, in the machinery of government change during this Parliament. [5267] announced by the Prime Minister on 2 June 2010, Official Report, column 22WS. They are supported by Mr Harper: The Deputy Prime Minister is chairing legal advisers from the Constitutional Law team in the the cross-party committee which will bring forward Ministry of Justice. proposals for a wholly or mainly elected upper Chamber. The committee will come forward with a draft Bill by Primary Elections the end of the year. Until such time appointments to the House of Lords will continue in the usual way. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister pursuant to his answer of 15 June 2010, Official Report, column House of Lords: Reform 321W, on primary elections, (1) what his estimate is of the cost of funding 200 all-postal primaries in this Parliament; [5237] Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what assessment has been made of the merits of the (a) open (2) whether the funding for all-postal primaries will list and (b) partially open list system of proportional be available for primaries other than open primaries in representation for use in electing a reformed second which every elector can vote; [5238] chamber of Parliament. [4968] (3) what discussions he has had with the political parties on take up of state funding for all-postal Mr Harper: The Committee on House of Lords primaries. [5239] reform, chaired by the Deputy Prime Minister, will consider the options for a proportional voting system Mr Harper: The Government have not made a detailed for a wholly or mainly elected second chamber. The assessment of the cost of funding the 200 all-postal Committee will publish its proposals in a draft Bill by primaries, and no decisions have yet been taken on what the end of the year. conditions might attach to the funding. I have not held discussions with political parties on this issue. Further details will be announced in due course. Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what representations he has received on the role of the Lords Royal Prerogative Spiritual in a reformed second chamber of Parliament. [4969] Mr Bain: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he will bring forward proposals to involve the House of Mr Harper: The Government have received a number Commons in the exercise of the prerogative powers of of representations on the role of the Lords Spiritual appointing a Prime Minister and other Ministers of the within a reformed second chamber. Crown. [4967] 317W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 318W

Mr Harper: There are no plans to bring forward improving corporate accountability and transparency. proposals in this area. We intend to consult on this issue this summer with a view to publishing our proposals by the end of the year. Connexions Service BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Animal Experiments Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what timetable he has Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for set for replacing the Connexions service with an all-age Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for careers service; and if he will make a statement. [3989] the future of the National Centre for the Replacement, Refinement and Reduction of Animals in Research. Mr Gibb: I have been asked to reply. [4991] The Government are currently considering how to make sure that all young people have access to high Mr Willetts: The NC3Rs is mainly funded by the quality careers education and information, advice and Medical and Biotechnology and Biological Sciences guidance that helps them to make choices about learning Research Councils. It also receives some funding from options and future careers. the Home Office, and the charitable and private sectors. The Government recognise the valuable contribution Departmental Lost Property the NC3RS has made in advancing the 3Rs as detailed in a recent five-year review of the Centre. The results of Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, the review will be used by the Research Councils to help Innovation and Skills what property has been recorded decide on future funding levels for the Centre in the as (a) lost and (b) stolen from the Department in the light of competing priorities for spending. last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost of the replacement of that property. [5966] Business: Regulation Mr Davey: During the period 1 June 2009 to 31 May Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, 2010, 115 items were reported as missing on this Innovation and Skills whether his policy to remove one Department’s central London estate with an estimated regulation when a new regulation is introduced applies replacement value of £28,500. Of these, 14 items were to regulations in UK law deriving from EU obligations. subsequently found with an estimated replacement value [6280] of £3,650. The Department records items as missing, as it is not Mr Prisk: Officials are currently assessing the most always possible to prove theft as the reason for the loss effective method for applying the One-in, One-out rule and some items reported are subsequently found. to those European regulations and directives which affect businesses and the third sector in the UK. The figure includes small, low value personal items as well as items of electrical equipment, such as ICT Business: West Midlands equipment, mobile phones and accessories (some of which may have been personal items) and multi media Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State equipment. for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions he has had with representatives of small and medium-sized Departmental Official Photographs enterprises located in Coventry on access to credit. [6160] Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much his Department has Mr Prisk [holding answer 6 July 2010]: The Secretary spent on official photographs of Ministers since the of State has had no recent discussions with representatives formation of the present administration. [6445] of small and medium-sized enterprises located in Coventry on access to credit. However, Ministers are considering Mr Davey: The Department has spent £800.00 plus options for the best ways to engage key representative VAT on initial photographs of six Business, Innovation bodies and banks to discuss access to credit issues. and Skills Ministers shortly after they were appointed. The Budget announced that a Green Paper will be Higher Education published before the summer recess to consider the broad range of finance options for businesses of different Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, sizes. Innovation and Skills whether he plans to allow private Company Finance for-profit higher education institutions to access Higher Education Funding Council for England funding. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for [5691] Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to ensure that FTSE-listed companies’ directors’ social Mr Willetts: I believe private for profit higher education and environmental duties are adequately covered in institutions have a role to play in the high education company reporting. [6066] landscape of this country. Any consideration of whether there is scope for giving such institutions access to Mr Davey: The Government’s commitment is to reinstate HEFCE funding should wait until after we have had the an Operating and Financial Review to ensure that directors’ chance to see and reflect on the outcome of the Independent social and environmental duties have to be covered in Review of Higher Education Funding and Student company reporting, and investigate further ways of Finance led by Lord Browne. 319W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 320W

Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Higher Education: Finance Innovation and Skills what representations he has received on allowing private higher education institutions access Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, to the student loans system. [5692] Innovation and Skills from which budgets the £200 million in savings from the higher education budget Mr Willetts: No representations have been received announced by his Department on 24 May 2010 will be on allowing private Higher Education Institutions access made. [4592] to the student loans system. As in the past, higher education courses provided by private institutions may Mr Willetts: The savings in the Higher Education be specifically designated to attract student support on Funding Council for England’s budget for 2010-11 are an individual basis and students attending these courses made up of a reduction in the university modernisation can access student loans. fund of £118 million and further efficiency savings of £82 million to be split between the teaching grant and Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, capital budgets. However, compared to the Grant letter Innovation and Skills whether he plans to change the issued in December 2009, HEFCE’s revised overall criteria a higher education institution must meet in budget will rise by £70 million for 2010-11. order to be classified as a university. [5693] Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Willetts: There are no immediate plans to make Innovation and Skills if he will estimate the effects on changes to the criteria. This an area we will keep under expenditure by the higher education sector of the review but changes would only be made after consultation Government’s proposal to increase the normal rate of with interested parties. value added tax to 20 per cent. [4595]

Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Willetts: The Department has not made an estimate Innovation and Skills whether he plans to review the of the additional costs to the higher education sector of role of private higher education institutions in the higher the increase in the rate of VAT. Separately, we have education system. [5694] introduced the £20 million shared services element of the university modernisation fund. It will support projects Mr Willetts: The private sector has an important role to increase collaboration in the sector. This will encourage to play in higher education and I would like to see the behaviour which can go some way to mitigate the opportunity for this type of provision to grow in this increase in VAT. country. The Independent Review of Higher Education Funding and Student Finance led by Lord Browne may Postcomm: Public Appointments also review the role of the private sector. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Higher Education: Admissions Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of the extent to which the appointment of Jenny Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Block as Postcomm’s legal director complies with Innovation and Skills what consideration he has given Article 22 of the Postal Services Directive on the to the findings of the recent report by the Higher independence of national regulatory authorities from Education Funding Council of England on student postal operators; and if he will make a statement. ethnicity: profile and progression of entrants to full-time, [6314] first degree study and the achievement gap between white and ethnic minority students. [4895] Mr Davey: Postcomm was established under the Postal Services Act 2000 as the independent regulator of the Mr Willetts: I have noted with interest HEFCE’s postal sector. publication “Student ethnicity: Profile and progression All of Postcomm’s directors have declared and published of entrants to full-time, first degree study”. Although their interests on its website: much of the content of the report was already in the http://www.psc.gov.uk/about-postcomm/commissioners-and- public domain through a range of research reports, it is directors/directors-declaration-of-interest.html helpful to draw together outcomes that include participation, Where there is a possible conflict of interest associated progression and attainment. with any appointments made by Postcomm, appropriate The sector has acted on previous research evidence procedures are put in place to deal with the potential concerning degree attainment gaps between minority conflict. ethnic and white students. The work of the higher As a non-ministerial Department (NMD), Postcomm education academy and the equality challenge unit continues has direct responsibility for its administration and staffing. to contribute towards institutions better understanding I have therefore asked the chief executive of Postcomm, the complex factors underpinning the gaps and developing Tim Brown, to provide a fuller reply to the hon. Member. initiatives to address them. A copy of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of the The need to attract more students from disadvantaged House. backgrounds into higher education and to increase social mobility is written into the coalition agreement. Sector Skills Council for Construction The coalition agreement is clear that future activity in these areas needs to be judged against the findings from Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Lord Browne’s independent review of higher education Business, Innovation and Skills what progress has been funding and student finance. made on the Sector Skills Council for Construction’s 321W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 322W review of Qualifying the Workforce; whether its terms Letter from Stephen Geraghty: of reference include competence card schemes; and if In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the he will make a statement. [6626] Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Mr Hayes: The Sector Skills Council for Construction Commissioner. is currently reviewing progress being made towards You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what qualifying the work force in the construction industry. the cost to the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission This includes the contribution made by competence-based is for each £1 of child maintenance arrears collected. [4774] card schemes. Construction Skills is also contributing The latest published information shows that costs for the to a review being carried out by the Health and Safety statutory maintenance scheme for 2009/10 were £499.0m. In the Executive. The governing body of the SSC will consider same period, £1,141m was collected and arranged in child maintenance. This gives an average cost of 44p for each £1 of the outcome of these pieces of work later in the year. child maintenance collected and arranged. Summertime It is not possible to assign a separate cost to the collection of arrears as activity to collect regular maintenance and arrears is undertaken simultaneously on a case by case basis. Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what representations his Department Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for has received since May 2010 on the introduction of Work and Pensions how many applications to the Child daylight saving time throughout the year; and what Support Agency for a departure or variation were by consideration the Government are giving to its introduction (a) a non-resident parent and (b) parents with care in on a permanent basis. [5892] the last three years; and how many such applications were (i) granted and (ii) rejected. [4775] Mr Davey: The Department has received a number of representations on this subject since May, including written correspondence and a number of parliamentary Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement questions. We are also aware of the 10:10 Lighter Later Commission is responsible for the child maintenance campaign and the recent petition that has been put system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner forward. The Government continues to listen to all such to write to the hon. Member with the information representatives, but does not have any current plans to requested and I have seen the response. change the existing arrangements. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Termination of Employment Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has and Enforcement Commission. made of the merits of simplifying legislation on You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how terminating the contracts of employees. [6534] many applications to the Child Support Agency for a departure or variation were by (a) a non-resident parent and (b) parents with care in the last three years; and how many such applications Mr Davey: Under current employment legislation, were (i) granted and (ii) rejected. there are five potentially valid reasons for dismissal. Unfortunately there is no management information is available These are capability, conduct, redundancy, retirement, on the number of variation applications. Management information and that continued employment would breach a statutory on new applications for a departure cannot be broken down by requirement. The legislation also provides for ‘some non-resident parent and parent with care. The table below therefore other substantial reason’, where an employer has a includes information on the total number of new applications for good reason for dismissing an employee which is not a departure, the number of applications granted and the number one of these five. of applications refused. We have no current plans to change the law in this New applications/clearances for a departure area, but if my hon. Friend wishes to write to me setting Departures 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 out his concerns, I will consider whether to include it in Total application intake 6,560 4,020 3,300 our review of employment law. NRP applications granted 1,440 1,330 1,200 PWC applications granted 1,400 1,100 1,080 Other clearances 2,830 750 100 WORK AND PENSIONS Total applications refused 990 1,190 1,140 Notes: Children: Maintenance 1. Figures rounded to nearest 10. 2. The application intake may include more than one application or Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for variation on the same case. 3. Other clearances include applications that are withdrawn as well Work and Pensions what the cost to the Child Maintenance as those under ‘preliminary consideration’. and Enforcement Commission was for each £1 of child 4. Applications granted, applications refused and other clearances maintenance arrears collected in the latest period for are based on the actual granted, refusal or clearance date. which figures are available. [4774] Applications granted, refused or cleared in one year may have been from a previous year’s intake. Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child maintenance Departmental Conferences system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the information Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for requested and I have seen the response. Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of 323W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 324W expenditure by his Department and its predecessors on diversity outside the central team is not held centrally (a) organising and (b) attending conferences in each and could only be obtained at disproportionate cost. year since 1997. [5938] Figures for the central team Total (£ Staff costs Headcount Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions million) (£ million) (FTE) was formed in June 2001 from the Department of 1 Social Security (DSS), the Employment Service (ES) 2009-10 1.321 1.065 23.33 and some parts of the Department for Education and 2008-09 1.731 1.150 228.16 Employment (DFEE) and no information is available 2007-08 1.628 1.120 322.13 before that time. 1 March 2010 2 March 2009 The Department does not hold a central record of 3 March 2008 the total cost of organising and attending conferences. However, identifiable expenditure for management Departmental Training conferences and external meetings are provided in the following table: Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what training has been provided for Ministers £ million in his Department since the formation of the present 2001-02 6.705 administration; and at what cost. [6442] 2002-03 19.729 2003-04 12.284 Chris Grayling: Since the formation of the new coalition Government no training has been provided to DWP 2004-05 10.738 Ministers. 2005-06 10.640 2006-07 11.533 Disability Living Allowance 2007-08 11.532 2008-09 16.273 2009-101 15.636 Mr Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1 The accounts for 2009-10 have not been finalised therefore are and Pensions what plans his Department has to consult subject to change. with businesses on the implementation of the Pensions Act 2008. [6073] These figures do not include expenditure incurred by the non-departmental public bodies: Steve Webb: The Government are committed to Health and Safety Executive; or introducing automatic enrolment as an effective means Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, since its of increasing pension saving. inception in 2008-09 The Making Automatic Enrolment Work review, announced on 24 June will consider whether the approach Departmental Equality inherited from the previous Administration strikes the right balance between cost, benefits and risks for individuals, Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work employers, and the tax-payer. The Review Team will and Pensions how much his Department has spent (a) contact relevant stakeholders to let them know how in total and (b) on staff costs on promoting equality they can participate in and contribute to the review. and diversity in each of the last three years for which The terms of reference for the review can be found on figures are available; and how many people are the DWP website: employed by his Department for this purpose. [5915] http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/making-automatic-enrolment- work-tor.pdf Chris Grayling: The Department is fully committed to equality of opportunity for all staff and to ensuring Funeral Payments that equality is built into the services it provides to the public. The Department therefore has in place a central Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for diversity and equality team to ensure that it complies Work and Pensions if he will increase the (a) component with all equality legislation. This team actively promotes to cover the cost of funeral directors’ expenses and (b) equality and diversity in the development of policies, level of the funeral benefit payment; and if he will make services, and in the treatment of staff. a statement. [6343] Other staff throughout the Department are also responsible for promoting equality and diversity as part Steve Webb: I refer the hon. Member to the written of their wider responsibilities. Staff across the Department answer I gave the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr have the opportunity to be involved in seven national Wright) on 24 June 2010, Official Report, column 307W. staff networks which promote diversity awareness. Information on the number of staff in the central Future Jobs Fund team and how much has been spent in total and on staff costs by the central team in each of the last three years Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work is in the following table. Information on the number of and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 21 June 2010, other staff in the Department working on equality and Official Report, column 75W, on the Future Jobs Fund, diversity cannot be disaggregated from their wider duties what categories of information his Department holds and could only be obtained at disproportionate cost. on the Future Jobs Fund; and what data he has used to Information on the costs of promoting equality and assess its effectiveness. [5130] 325W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 326W

Chris Grayling: The Department holds information produce the July 2010 LHA rates in Scotland. These are on the number of Future Jobs Fund placements available, available on the Scottish Government website at: the number of customers who started a Future Jobs www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/ Fund job and financial information on payments made, PrivateRenting/rent-registration-service/setting-lha/Figures/ along with some demographical and geographical LHAJULY2010 information. Information that has been quality assured This will be updated each month until LHA rates are under the UK Statistics Authority’s code of practice is set at the 30th percentile from October 2011. released as official statistics. Indicative LHA rates at the 30th percentile for broad We have agreed to fund over 100,000 jobs. The rental market areas in Wales are not as yet published Department is committed to implementing programmes but are given in the following table. that deliver value for money and deliver sustainable th outcomes. At up to £6,500 per person the Future Jobs 30 Percentile calculation—Wales Fund is five times more expensive than some other £ elements of the Young Person’s Guarantee. The Fund Broad rental Shared does not ensure sustainable employment for young people: market 1 1 2 3 4 it creates short term jobs, and the grants do not include area bedroom bedroom bedroom bedroom bedroom any incentives to move people into permanent posts. Reducing the scope of the programme will save £290 Blaenau 45.00 64.62 76.92 86.54 107.31 million and this will help the Government tackle the Brecon 50.00 65.00 87.00 103.85 115.38 unprecedented £156 billion deficit. and Radnor The Government are committed to supporting young Bridgend 49.00 77.31 98.08 105.00 150.00 people. The 50,000 new apprenticeships announced in Caerphilly 54.00 71.54 92.31 100.00 138.46 May and the forthcoming Work Programme will help Cardiff 54.23 98.08 126.92 144.23 184.62 move young people into sustainable employment. Carmarthen 51.00 70.00 87.69 99.23 115.38 Ceredigion 63.50 80.77 98.08 110.00 126.92 Housing Benefit Flint 55.00 75.00 103.85 121.15 155.77 Merthyr 45.00 65.00 80.00 87.69 110.00 Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Cynon and Pensions what plans he has to review the local Monmouth 56.54 86.54 114.23 132.69 173.08 housing allowance system. [5293] Newport 50.00 76.15 103.85 115.38 150.00 North 60.00 75.00 97.00 115.38 148.85 Steve Webb: The Department has been carrying out a Clwyd review of the local housing allowance (LHA) scheme North 50.00 60.00 80.77 92.31 126.92 over a two-year period from the commencement of its Powys North 50.00 6.5.00 85.38 98.08 121.15 roll-out in April 2008. The aim of the review is to West monitor the impact of the LHA at a national level, Wales against the original LHA policy objectives set out by NPT 54.00 75.00 87.69 98.08 114.23 the previous Government. We aim to publish a report Pembroke 54.00 77.54 92.31 115.38 150.00 later in the year. South 50.00 60.00 73.85 83.08 80.00 Gwynedd Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Swansea 51.92 85.00 103.85 110.00 155.77 Work and Pensions what estimate has been made of the Taff 45.00 62.00 84.23 90.00 126.92 proportion of landlords with properties for rent at Rhondda below the 30th percentile of the market who let to Torfaen 60.00 80.77 92.31 110.77 132.69 housing benefit claimants. [5697] Vale of 51.92 93.75 115.38 126.92 173.08 Glamorgan Steve Webb: The information is not available. Wrexham 55.00 69.23 98.08 115.38 150.00 Note: Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for The rates are based on July 2010 data. Source: Work and Pensions what the level is of local housing Rent Officers Wales allowance in each of the broad market rental areas; at what levels they will be set in each area when rates are Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for set at the 30th percentile of local rents; and if he will Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of make a statement. [5702] the likely effects of the proposed cap on local housing allowance in relation to the housing benefit subsidy to Steve Webb: Local housing allowance (LHA) rates local authorities on homeless households placed in for all broad rental market areas in England, Scotland temporary accommodation. [5841] and Wales are published by the Valuation Office Agency (VOA) on their website at: Steve Webb: Housing benefit subsidy for people in www.voa.gov.uk temporary accommodation is considered separately to The VOA has also published on their website indicative mainstream local housing allowance rates and reviewed LHA rates at the 30th percentile based on data used to annually. produce the June 2010 rates in England. The proposed changes to local housing allowance The Scottish Government have published indicative rates from next year, including the introduction of upper LHA rates at the 30th percentile based on data used to cap limits in April 2011, would not affect housing 327W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 328W benefit subsidy levels for private sector leased temporary Jobseekers Allowance accommodation before April 2012. This is because, under existing legislation, housing benefit subsidy levels Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for this type of temporary accommodation are based and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of (a) on a formula that uses local housing allowance rates for individuals and (b) lone parents in Wakefield constituency the January preceding each relevant financial year. Therefore who will have been on jobseeker’s allowance for over subsidy levels until April 2012 would be based on local 12 months in 2013; [6772] housing allowance rates before the proposed changes take effect. Ann Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Subsidy levels from April 2012, including the method and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of (a) used to calculate them, have not yet been decided. individuals and (b) lone parents in Cynon Valley constituency who will have been on jobseeker’s John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work allowance for over 12 months in 2013; [6778] and Pensions what assessment his Department has made of the likely effects on (a) levels of homelessness and (b) demand for affordable housing of implementation Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of the proposed changes to the payment of housing and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have been on benefit in each of the next five years. [6473] jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in Birmingham, Erdington constituency in 2013. [6945] Steve Webb: The Department for Work and Pensions undertakes rigorous assessments of all new policies and will fully consider the effects of changes to housing Chris Grayling: The information is not available. benefit on homelessness and the demand for affordable housing alongside the detailed policy design of these Lone Parents: Lancashire measures. The Department will work with Communities and Local Government, the Welsh Assembly Government Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and the Scottish Government to assess the wider housing and Pensions how many lone parents there are in West implications of these policies. Information will be published Lancashire constituency. [5631] in due course. Maria Miller: In 2008, there were estimated to be Housing Benefit: Tower Hamlets 1,600 lone parents in West Lancashire. This figure has been rounded to the nearest 100. The estimate is based Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for on the Household Annual Population survey (HAPS). Work and Pensions how much funding for discretionary The latest available wave for the HAPS is 2008. It is housing payments has been made available to the London important to note that as with any sample survey, borough of Tower Hamlets in each year since 1997. estimates from the HAPS are subject to a margin of [5842] uncertainty as different samples give different results. At the constituency level the group in question is very Steve Webb: The Discretionary Housing Payments specific and the estimate is based on very small sample (DHP) scheme was introduced in July 2001. The sizes. Therefore, the margin of uncertainty is very large Government makes a contribution to each local authority’s for this estimate and the figure is deemed unreliable and expenditure on DHP. The local authority is allowed to would not be used by the Department for Work and add to this contribution, as long as the total expenditure Pensions for practical purposes. does not exceed 2.5 times the Government’s contribution for that year. Mortgages: Government Assistance The available information is in the following table. Government DHP contribution to the London borough of Tower Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Hamlets since 2001, and Tower Hamlets’ reported expenditure Work and Pensions whether he plans to change the £ system of payment of mortgage interest for those who Government claim jobseeker’s allowance. [5812] contribution Total expenditure

2001-02 95,889 54,651 Chris Grayling: A two year time limit for jobseeker’s 2002-03 140,734 110,672 allowance customers was introduced in January 2009. 2003-04 140,734 112,552 There are no current plans to make further changes, but 2004-05 150,300 141,624 the Government are in the early stages of considering 2005-06 144,769 156,675 future policy on support for mortgage interest. 2006-07 156,025 92,995 2007-08 157,141 127,903 Pension Credit: Richmond Park 2008-09 126,213 146,898 2009-10 140,934 152,128 Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11 132,770 1— Work and Pensions how many people in Richmond 1 Not yet known. Park constituency claim pension credit. [6930] Source: Department for Work and Pensions allocations and Local Authority returns Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. 329W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 330W

Pension credit Notes: Parliamentary individual Pension credit 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. constituency beneficiaries household recipients 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic Richmond Park 3,170 2,760 state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or Notes: graduated retirement benefit only. 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 2. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim parliamentary constituencies. pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in 3. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. May 2010. 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament Source: of May 2010. DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study Source: 100% data as at November 2009 DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100% data as at November 2009

Pensioners Pensioners: Ashton-in-Makerfield Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many pensioners in (a) Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for Slough, (b) Salisbury and (c) Scarborough and Work and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) Whitby constituency receive (i) the basic state pension the basic state pension and (b) pension credit in Makerfield and (ii) pension credit. [6009] constituency. [6051]

Steve Webb: The information available is in the following Steve Webb: The information available is in the following table. table. Parliamentary constituency: Makerfield Pension credit Pension credit Number Parliamentary State pension individual household constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients State pension recipients 18,680 Slough 13,440 5,280 4,330 Pension credit individual 6,210 beneficiaries Salisbury 20,250 3,770 3,150 Pension credit household 4,870 Scarborough 24,330 7,430 6,000 recipients and Whitby Notes: Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 parliamentary constituencies. parliamentary constituencies. 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of of May 2010. May 2010. Source: Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study Study 100% data as at November 2009 100% data as at November 2009

Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Pensioners: Bishop Auckland Work and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) the basic state pension and (b) pension credit in (i) Glasgow North and (ii) Ealing Central and Acton Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for constituency. [6149] Work and Pensions how many pensioners in (a) Bishop Auckland and (b) Blackpool North and Cleveleys constituency receive (i) the basic state pension and (ii) Steve Webb: The information available is in the following pension credit. [5092] table.

Pension credit Pension credit Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Parliamentary State pension individual household constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients State Pension credit Pension credit Parliamentary pension individual household Glasgow 8,940 4,580 3,990 constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients North Ealing 13,160 4,540 3,930 Bishop Auckland 19,030 7,460 5,940 Central and Blackpool North 20,950 7,250 5,880 Acton and Cleveleys 331W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 332W

Notes: Notes: 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 parliamentary constituencies. parliamentary constituencies. 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament May 2010. of May 2010. Source: Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal 100% data as at November 2009. Study 100% data as at November 2009.

Pensioners: Enfield Pensioners: Houghton-le-Spring Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many pensioners resident in (a) the London borough of Enfield and (b) Enfield North Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for constituency are in receipt of (i) the basic state pension Work and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) and (ii) pension credit. [5591] the basic state pension and (b) pension credit in Houghton and Sunderland South constituency. [5900] Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Pension Pension Houghton and Sunderland South parliamentary constituency State credit credit Number pension individual household Area recipients beneficiaries recipients State pension recipients 18,740 Enfield local 42,700 14,750 11,860 Pension credit individual 8,130 authority beneficiaries Enfield North 14,050 4,550 3,730 Pension credit household 6,470 parliamentary recipients constituency Notes: Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total State Pension caseload. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 parliamentary constituencies. parliamentary constituencies. 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of May 2010. of May 2010. Source: Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100% data as at November 2009. Study 100 per cent data as at November 2009

Pensioners: Greater Manchester Pensioners: Hull

Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people receive (a) the basic Diana R. Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for state pension and (b) pension credit in Stretford and Work and Pensions how many pensioners in Kingston Urmston constituency. [5844] upon Hull North constituency receive (a) the basic state pension and (b) pension credit. [6521] Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Pension Pension credit credit Pension credit Pension credit Parliamentary State pension individual household Parliamentary State pension individual household constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients

Stretford and 16,850 5,380 4,490 Kingston 12,860 6,570 5,190 Urmston upon Hull 333W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 334W

Motherwell and Wishaw parliamentary constituency Notes: Number 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. State pension recipients 16,280 Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or Pension credit individual 7,770 graduated retirement benefit only. beneficiaries 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 Pension credit household 6,420 parliamentary constituencies. recipients 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim Notes: pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or May 2010. graduated retirement benefit only. Source: 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study parliamentary constituencies. 100% data as at November 2009 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a Pensioners: Lancashire partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of May 2010. and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) the Source: basic state pension and (b) pension credit in West DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Lancashire constituency. [5625] Study 100% data as at November 2009

Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. Pensioners: Worsley

Pension credit Pension credit Barbara Keeley: To ask the Secretary of State for Parliamentary State pension individual household Work and Pensions how many pensioners receive (a) constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients the basic state pension and (b) pension credit in West 18,680 6,240 4,990 Worsley and Eccles South constituency. [6092] Lancashire Notes: Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State Pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. State Pension credit Pension credit Around 1% of. state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic Parliamentary pension individual household state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or constituency recipients beneficiaries recipients graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 Worsley and 17,630 6,590 5,380 parliamentary constituencies. Eccles South 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim Notes: pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or May 2010. graduated retirement benefit only. Source: 3. Basic state pension only figures are not available by current 2010 DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study parliamentary constituencies. 100 per cent data as at November 2009 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim Pensioners: Ministerial Policy Advisers pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are claiming. Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of and Pensions if he will extend the terms of reference of May 2010. his Department’s review into public sector pensions to Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study include the pension arrangements of Government 100% data as at November 2009 special advisers. [5760] Pensions Act 2008 Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. Special advisers working for the Government are Mr Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work members of the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme, and Pensions whether his Department has made an and this scheme falls within the scope of the Independent assessment of the suitability of August as the month Public Service Pensions Commission. during which the implementation date for the Pensions Act 2008 falls. [6075] Pensioners: Motherwell Steve Webb: The Pensions Act 2008 will be implemented Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for from October 2012, with employers being brought under Work and Pensions how many people in Motherwell the duties gradually, over a four year period. Employers and Wishaw constituency are in receipt of (a) the basic are due to be brought within the scope of the employer state pension and (b) pension credit. [6531] duties in a series of monthly stages, starting with the largest firms, with the majority of the smallest companies Steve Webb: The information available is in the table. being brought in from August 2014. 335W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 336W

Staging is essential to ensure the reforms are implemented Employment support allowance claimants, incapacity benefit/severe safely and fairly. Following extensive work with our disablement allowance, and disability living allowance: November 2009 delivery partners, we have determined that staging in Parliamentary multiple tranches over four years strikes the right balance constituency ESA IB/SDA DLA between managing operational risks and getting people Lewisham East 780 3,800 5,000 into saving quickly. Notes: We consulted widely on our implementation approach 1. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. and have discussed whether to avoid staging during 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, some additional disclosure certain times of year, to reduce burdens on businesses. has been applied. Based on advice from stakeholders, we have ensured 3. Caseload for DLA show the number of people in receipt of an that employers will not be staged in during December. allowance, and exclude people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. In addition, to provide maximum flexibility, employers 4. Constituencies used are for the Westminster Parliament of May scheduled for the month of August will be free to bring 2010. their date forward to an alternative month, provided 5. IB/SDA ‘Claimants’ include people in receipt of benefit and also this is not before October 2012. those who fail the contributions conditions but receive a national insurance credit, i.e. ‘credits only cases’. Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study Social Security Benefits 100% data. Unemployment: Older Workers Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what assessment his Department has made of the distributional effects of the proposed changes in Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work welfare benefits by income decile of the population in and Pensions what steps his Department is taking to (a) the UK, (b) Scotland, (c) Northern Ireland, (d) tackle unemployment among those over 50 years old; Wales, (e) England and (f) each English region in each and if he will make a statement. [5420] year from 2010-11 to 2015-16; and if he will make a statement. [4971] Chris Grayling: We have announced plans for radical reforms of the welfare to work system and the implementation of the Work Programme. The Work Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. Programme will be an integrated package of support This Government have published for the first time providing personalised help for people who find themselves estimates of the distributional impact of announced tax out of work regardless of the benefit they claim. This is and benefit measures. being designed to meet the needs of jobseekers of all Estimates of the distributional impact of tax credit ages including people aged over 50. and benefits changes implemented in 2012-13 at the UK We aim to have the new Work Programme in place level are set out in annex A of the Budget document: nationally by the summer of 2011. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexa.pdf Alongside the core Work Programme we will introduce “Budget 2010: Data sources” provides a full list of a series of support measures such as, help for business modelled measures: start ups, Work Clubs, and specialised pre-employment http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/ training and work placements. junebudget_data_sources.pdf Recognising the particular issues some older jobseekers Estimates for 2010-11 are not available as the tax face, we have produced good practice and support credit and benefit measures that we are able to model materials to help advisers and providers working with have an impact from 2011-12 onward. customers aged over 50 who are seeking work. Looking at the impact of welfare benefits changes in 2011-12 would only show a partial effect as it is only in 2012-13 that tax credit changes will be fully implemented. Estimates post 2012-13 are not available due to greater ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE uncertainty surrounding longer term economic forecasts underpinning the modelling. Climate Change: International Cooperation Estimates of changes in welfare benefits by income decile are only available at UK level as lower geographical Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State disaggregations do not provide sufficiently robust results. for Energy and Climate Change what steps he is taking to secure a legally binding international treaty on climate change. [6507] Social Security Benefits: Lewisham Gregory Barker: The Government are committed to seeking an ambitious global deal to tackle climate change. Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government are playing their full part in the Work and Pensions how many people are in receipt of international negotiations under the UN Framework (a) disability living allowance, (b) incapacity benefit Convention on Climate Change. and (c) employment and support allowance in By the time of the Climate Change Conference in Lewisham East constituency. [6582] Cancun in November this year, we aim to make substantial progress towards agreement on the key elements of a Chris Grayling: The information requested is as follows: legally binding international agreement. 337W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 338W

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Gregory Barker: The most recently available sub-regional for Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions split of fuel poverty relates to 2006, and shows that he has had with his international counterparts on proposals there were 3,300 households in the Richmond Park for a legally binding international treaty on climate constituency that were classified as living in fuel poverty. change. [6508] This is equivalent to 6.9% of all households in the Richmond Park constituency. Gregory Barker: The Government are committed to reaching an international deal to reduce emissions and Green Investment Bank we are committed to working with other Governments and international interlocutors to achieve this. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has for Energy and Climate Change what representations already had a number of meetings and made telephone he has received on the creation of a green investment calls to a number of countries. Most recently he met bank. [6510] with counterparts in the margins of the Major Economies Forum in Rome (30 June-1 July). Gregory Barker: The Government will put forward Departmental Buildings detailed proposals on the creation of a green investment bank following the spending review. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy A wide range of options for the scope and structure and Climate Change how many buildings his Department of the green investment bank are being considered. The Government have received a number of representations occupies in (a) London and (b) the UK. [6855] in this respect, including the findings and recommendations Gregory Barker: The Department fully occupies one of the review undertaken by Bob Wigley and his panel, building in London (3 Whitehall Place) and part-occupies which was published last month. one building in Aberdeen (Atholl House, Guild Street). Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change Departmental Carbon Emissions Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Energy and Climate Change if the Inter-Governmental for Energy and Climate Change what plans he has to Panel on Climate Change planning session in October reduce the level of his Department’s carbon emissions 2010 will be conducted under the terms of the Aarhus by 10% in the next 12 months. [6511] Convention. [5381]

Gregory Barker: On 14 May 2010, my right hon. Gregory Barker: The Intergovernmental Panel on Friend the Prime Minister announced, during a visit to Climate Change (IPCC) conducts its meetings in accordance DECC’s London headquarters, a commitment to reduce with its own rules of procedure which are available on central Government emissions by 10% in the next its website. Not all of the IPCC member states are party 12 months. DECC will play its full part by reducing its to the convention and we cannot comment on whether emissions from electricity and gas use on its estate by at the IPCC’s planning session will be conducted under least 10% over this period, on top of the 20% CO2 the terms of the Aarhus Convention, although all papers reduction secured in the 2009-10 financial year. from the meeting will be made available on the IPCC The measures the Department intends to take include website. However, the UK is a party to the convention changes to lighting, heating and cooling systems and a and we will continue encouraging the IPCC to continue staff engagement programme to encourage behaviour to be as open in terms of its processes and procedures as change to reduce energy use further. The Department possible. regularly reports progress on energy efficiency on its website, where a real-time energy monitor is also available Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for that provides live information updated every five seconds Energy and Climate Change what proposed changes in on electricity and gas use. the conduct of the Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) assessments and procedures he Departmental Official Photographs plans to support at the IPCC plenary session in October 2010. [5382] Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how much his Department has Gregory Barker: We have been asked to comment on spent on official photographs of Ministers since the the current rules of procedure for election of the IPCC formation of the present administration. [6441] bureau and any task force bureau and this will be discussed at plenary in October. Apart from this, we Gregory Barker: The total spent by DECC on official currently have no plans to propose changes to the IPCC photographs of Ministers since the formation of the at the meeting. The October meeting will consider the Government is £39. outcomes of the IAC review and we will consider what implications this has for the IPCC within that meeting. Fuel Poverty: Richmond Park Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the name is of each Energy and Climate Change how many and what representative of the Government who will attend the proportion of households in Richmond Park constituency plenary session of the Inter-Governmental Panel on are in fuel poverty. [6932] Climate Change in October 2010. [5383] 339W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 340W

Gregory Barker: The UK delegation to the IPCC Gregory Barker: A generation tariff rate of 41.3p/kWh plenary session in October has not yet been selected. is paid for solar photovoltaic installations of 4 kW or less in capacity. This would equate to a typical domestic Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs sized installation which would also benefit from the additional export tariff rate of 3p/kWh. Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for The table of tariffs, available from our website at: Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to www.decc.gov.uk/fits increase the feed-in tariff to a rate of 41p per kilowatt and reproduced as follows, details the rates, banded by in relation to photovoltaic panels. [5023] scale, for eligible technologies.

Table of tariffs up to 2013 Tariff level for new installations in period (p/kWh)1 Year 1: 1 April Year 2: 1 April Year 3: 1 April 2010-31 March 2011-31 March 2012-31 March Tariff lifetime Technology Scale 2011 2012 2013 (years)

Anaerobic digestion =500 kW 11.5 11.5 11.5 20 Anaerobic digestion >500 kW 9.0 9.0 9.0 20 Hydro =15 kW 19.9 19.9 19.9 20 Hydro >15-100 kW 17.8 17.8 17.8 20 Hydro >100 kW-2 MW 11.0 11.0 11.0 20 Hydro >2 MW-5 MW 4.5 4.5 4.5 20 MicroCHP pilot <2 kW 10 10 10 10 PV =4 kW (new build) 36.1 36.1 33.0 25 PV =4 kW (retrofit) 41.3 41.3 37.8 25 PV >4-10 kW 36.1 36.1 33.0 25 PV >10-100 kW 31.4 31.4 28.7 25 PV >100 kW-5 MW 29.3 29.3 26.8 25 PV Stand alone system 29.3 29.3 26.8 25 Wind =1.5 kW 34.5 34.5 32.6 20 Wind >1.5-15 kW 26.7 26.7 25.5 20 Wind >15-100 kW 24.1 24.1 23.0 20 Wind >100-500 kW 18.8 18.8 18.8 20 Wind >500 kW-1.5MW 9.4 9.4 9.4 20 Wind >1.5 MW-5 MW 4.5 4.5 4.5 20 Existing microgenerators transferred from the RO 9 9.0 9.0 to 2027 1 Tariffs will be inflated annually.

Taxation: Carbon Emissions the investment, exports and jobs we need to bring back economic prosperity, and the UK is already a world Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy leader in offshore wind. and Climate Change what assessment he has made of We also want communities and individuals to benefit the effect of the measures in the June 2010 Budget on from the increase in renewable energy, including wind funding for transition to a low-carbon future. [6498] power, and to own a stake in our collective low carbon Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. future. This is why we committed in the Coalition programme for Government to encouraging more The June Budget set the overall spending envelope community-owned renewable energy and allowing for Government; consistent with reducing the deficit, communities that host renewable energy projects to and meeting the fiscal mandate of achieving cyclically keep the additional business rates they generate. adjusted current balance by the end of the rolling, five year forecast period. The allocation of this spending across Government’s priorities will be decided in the Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for course of the Spending Review, to be concluded on 20 Energy and Climate Change what recent assessment he October. has made of the effects of wind turbines on the health of nearby residents. [6215] Wind Power Charles Hendry: The planning process requires developers Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for and planners to evaluate the likely impact of issues such Energy and Climate Change what his policy is on wind as noise and shadow flicker from wind turbines on local farms. [5849] residents and those working in the vicinity. Planning Charles Hendry: The Government are committed to authorities can and do refuse planning permission for the development of wind energy in the UK. As an proposed wind farms where there are likely to be significant island nation we have outstanding wind resources and impacts which cannot be acceptably mitigated. wind energy is an indigenous source of energy which is A study was commissioned in 2007 into a noise needed to meet our renewable energy and climate change phenomenon known as aerodynamic modulation (AM), goals. The wind industry can be a key player in creating which it is was thought could be a cause of noise 341W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 342W disturbance for nearby residents. The study found that Benzodiazepine prescription items classified as sedative and analgesic the incidence of AM resulting from wind farms in the peri-operative drugs in section 15.1.4 of the British National UK is low. Out of the 133 wind farms in operation at Formulary (BNF) and dispensed in the community in England in 2009 the time, there were four cases where AM appeared to BNF chemical name Prescription items (Thousand) be a factor. Complaints have subsided for three out of Midazolam 68.9 these four sites. Source: Prescription Cost Analysis Antidepressant prescription items classified in section 4.3 of the British National Formulary (BNF) and dispensed in the community in HEALTH England 2009 BNF chemical name Prescription items (Thousand) Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse Agomelatine 5.2 Amitriptyline Hydrochloride 7,901.5 Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Amoxapine 1— Health what plans he has to reduce the incidence of Citalopram Hydrobromide 10,445.9 alcohol abuse. [5868] Citalopram Hydrochloride 65.1 Anne Milton: Alcohol is a major public health issue. Clomipramine Hydrochloride 360.0 We are determined to ensure effective commissioning of Dosulepin Hydrochloride 1,832.0 national health service services, with a focus on prevention Doxepin 46.8 and good outcomes from treatment, including treatment Duloxetine Hydrochloride 462.7 for alcohol abuse. Escitalopram 1,250.8 We are committed to banning the sale of alcohol Fluoxetine Hydrochloride 5,220.01 below cost, to reviewing alcohol taxation and pricing to Flupentixol Hydrochloride 185.5 ensure it tackles binge drinking without unfairly penalising Fluvoxamine Maleate 28.8 responsible drinkers, pubs and important local industries. Imipramine Hydrochloride 196.8 We are committed to introducing a tougher licensing Isocarboxazid 2.9 regime. Lofepramine Hydrochloride 361.0 1 We will set out our plans in more detail through Maprotiline Hydrochloride — announcements in the coming months. Mianserin Hydrochloride 9.8 Mirtazapine 2,854.5 Benzodiazepines and Antidepressants Moclobemide 24.6 Nefazodone Hydrochloride 0.5 Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Nortriptyline 264.3 Health how many prescriptions of (a) individual Paroxetine Hydrochloride 1,637.7 benzodiazepine drugs and (b) antidepressants were Phenelzine Sulphate 22.7 dispensed in the community in 2009. [5531] Reboxetine 53.51 Sertraline Hydrochloride 2,395.4 Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is shown Tranylcypromine Sulphate 11.7 in the following tables. Trazodone Hydrochloride 849.1 Benzodiazepine prescription items classified as hypnotics and Trimipramine Maleate 130.3 anxiolytics in sections 4.1.1 and 4.1.2 of the British National Tryptophan 12.4 Formulary (BNF) and dispensed in the community in England in 2009 Venlafaxine 2,509.0 BNF chemical name Prescription items (Thousand) 1 Less than 50 prescription items dispensed Source: 1 Alprazolam — Prescription Cost Analysis Chlordiazepoxide Hydrochloride 239.6 Diazepam 5,014.0 Departmental Official Cars Flurazepam Hydrochloride 1— Loprazolam Mesilate 96.3 Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Lorazepam 930.7 which Ministers in his Department have used an allocated Lormetazepam 72.3 ministerial car to travel between his Department and Nitrazepam 1,100.5 the House of Commons on each day since 21 May Oxazepam 171.5 2010. [5549] Temazepam 2,969.0 1 Less than 50 prescription items dispensed Mr Simon Burns: This information is not recorded by Source: the Department. However, Ministers based at Richmond Prescription Cost Analysis house regularly walk to the House. Benzodiazepine prescription items classified as antiepileptic drugs in sections 4.8.1 and 4.8.2 of the British National Formulary (BNF) and dispensed in the community in England in 2009 Departmental Property BNF chemical name Prescription items (Thousand)

Clonazepam 574.6 Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Clobazam 173.5 what property has been recorded as (a) lost and (b) Midazolam 25.6 stolen from the Department in the last 12 months; and Source: what estimate has been made of the cost of the replacement Prescription Cost Analysis of that property. [5969] 343W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 344W

Mr Simon Burns: The following table outlines information IT Equipment Losses 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 technology (IT) losses for financial year 2009-10 and is Total items lost or the latest information held. No losses of other departmental stolen during the Total Monetary loss property have been reported. No distinction is made Items year for the year (£) between items lost or stolen. Total Losses 104 37,338.19 IT Equipment Losses 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 Total items lost or Departmental Public Expenditure stolen during the Total Monetary loss Items year for the year (£) Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Mobile Telephones 15 1,080.15 Health how much was spent on (a) refreshments and Laptops 22 22,088.35 (b) furnishings in his private office in each year from Psions, PalmPilots, 46 10,778.09 2005 to 2010. [5620] Ipaqs, BlackBerries Projectors 1 934.12 Mr Simon Burns: Departmental records show that Storage devices 2 15.00 (memory sticks etc) expenditure on refreshments and furnishings in the Secretary of State’s office in the years requested is in the Other IT equipment 18 2,442.48 following table.

£ 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 20101

Refreshments 9214.21 22,492.56 11,934.56 4,013.58 2,393.62 485.17 Furnishings 0 0 0 4,710.00 0 0 1 To the present.

Fats: Health Hazards the West Midlands were below the national average. A copy of the profile has been placed in the Library and is Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for available at: Health what recent representations he has received on www.apho.org.uk/default.aspx?QN=HP_REGIONS_2009 proposals to ban industrially-produced trans fatty acids. [5933] Food: Advertising

Anne Milton: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for State has received a number of representations from Health what his policy is on restrictions on the scheduling members of the public and also a wide-ranging report of television advertising of food and drink with high on the prevention of cardiovascular disease at a population levels of fat, salt or sugar. [5925] level from the National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence. Anne Milton: The television regulator Ofcom has Fluoride: Drinking Water placed scheduling restrictions on the broadcast advertising of foods high in fat, salt and sugar during children’s Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for programmes and programmes of particular appeal to Health what statistical information his Department children up to the age of 16. holds on the effect on levels of health inequality of the We will consider this issue further as we develop our addition of fluoride to the water supply since the public health proposals. commencement of the Water Act 2003. [6062] Food: Labelling Anne Milton: There have been no new fluoridation schemes since 2003. However, the potential that fluoridation Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health offers for reducing inequalities in oral health is well what recent discussions (a) Ministers and (b) officials illustrated by data from nationally coordinated surveys in his Department have had with representatives of the of child dental health, a copy of which has been placed food industry on the effects of the provision of food in the Library and is available at: label information on the (i) salt, (ii) sugar and (iii) fat www.bascd.org/annual_survey_results.php content of foods on the ability of people to manage By way of example, a survey conducted in 2007-08 their (A) diabetes, (B) heart disease, (C) stroke, (D) shows five-year-old children in Sandwell, in the fluoridated obesity and (E) other chronic medical conditions; what West Midlands, have on average 1.1 decayed, missing or recent representations he has received on those matters; filled tooth compared with an average of 2.4 in Blackburn, what recent discussions he has had with Ministerial an area of a similar socio-economic profile in the North colleagues on those matters; and if he will make a West where the water is not fluoridated. Equally significant statement. [5462] is information from the 2009 health profile for the West Midlands, which covered a wide range of indices including Anne Milton: Ministers have not had any recent life expectancy, infant deaths, violent crime and drug discussions with the food industry or representations on misuse. The profile shows that, of all the indices, only the provision of nutritional information on food labels. those for tooth decay and road injuries and deaths in The Government are considering a number of schemes 345W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 346W at the moment. It is important that people have nutritional Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust information on the pack of food they buy, so that they can make good choices about what they eat. Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health We will be having discussions with Ministers across what recent discussions he has had with Maidstone and Government as we develop our public health proposals. Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust on the case of Mrs Rose Officials regularly meet with food manufacturers, Gibb. [5408] retailers and trade organisations to discuss a range of public health issues. This includes discussion about Mr Simon Burns: My right hon. Friend the Secretary nutritional labelling. of State has not had any recent discussions with Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust on the case of Mrs Rose Gibb. Health Visitors: Waltham Forest Mental Health Services Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the likely effects on the Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health health of residents of the London Borough of Waltham what plans he has to prevent people developing mental Forest of implementing his proposed increase in the health problems. [6677] number of health visitors; and when he expects to allocate funding to support such an increase. [6544] Mr Burstow: We have already pledged £70 million in the current financial year to support the expansion of Anne Milton: Growing numbers of health visitors psychological therapies and are actively considering will mean extra support for children and families, especially how best to make further progress. The focus will in at the start of life. The Coalition Agreement has made a particular be on services that, when delivered early, can commitment to increasing the number of health visitors. help to minimise the severity of mental illness and help people move to recovery. Hospitals: Consultants More generally, the national health service will be backed with increased real resources, although we recognise Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health that there are still efficiencies to be made. However, we what his policy is on ending the system of merit awards intend to make sure front-line services in the NHS as a to NHS consultants; and if he will make a statement. whole are protected from cuts. [6421] We also recognise the importance of promoting good public health and preventing ill-health. Mental illness is Mr Simon Burns: From 2004, clinical excellence awards common, often debilitating, and closely linked to physical were made as a replacement for distinction awards. We illness. Understanding and addressing the causes of are looking at these payments in the context of the mental ill-health will be central to our plans for public Government’s approach to public sector pay. health.

Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health NHS: ICT how much the NHS paid in merit awards to consultants in the last 12 months. [6422] Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what his most recent estimate is of the cost of Mr Simon Burns: From 2004, clinical excellence awards the Connecting for Health programme. [6108] were made as a replacement for distinction awards. Mr Simon Burns: The National Programme for For the financial year 2009-10, the national health Information Technology (NPfIT) is currently forecast service paid £202.2 million to consultants for national to cost some £12.052 billion to 2015-16. This figure clinical excellence awards and distinction awards. derives from a 2008 National Audit Office estimate We are looking at this type of payment in the context based on the then existing contracted costs and forecast of the Government’s approach to public sector pay. central costs, at 2004-05 prices, adjusted to take account Notes: of £600 million of savings announced by the previous 1. The information above does not include information on local Government. clinical excellence awards (employer based awards) which are We will be revisiting NPfIT expenditure plans in the paid by trusts. context of the forthcoming spending review. 2. The information above does not include national clinical excellence awards that are paid from central funds to consultants NHS: Social Responsibility holding a NHS contract and employed in the Department or arms length bodies. Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much and what proportion of the current Hospitals: Food NHS corporate social responsibility settlement has been transferred to social care. [5957]

Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Burstow: We understand the hon. Member is whether he plans to ban the sale of (a) tea and coffee referring to the Comprehensive Spending Review settlement. with sugar and (b) cheddar cheese sandwiches in As set out in our latest Departmental Report (table hospitals. [5340] A.2), transfers between the national health service and Personal Social Services within the 2007 Comprehensive Anne Milton: No. Spending Review settlement are: £167 million in 2008-09, 347W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 348W

£272 million in 2009-10, and £250 million in 2010-11. death associated with overweight and obesity; what This represents 0.18%, 0.28% and 0.24% of the overall recent discussions (a) Ministers and (b) officials in his current NHS net revenue settlement. Department have had with Ministerial colleagues on that matter; and if he will make a statement. [5400] NHS: Standards Anne Milton: In 2007, the Foresight team which is Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Health part of the Government Office for Science published pursuant to the answer of 29 June 2010, Official Report, ‘Tackling Obesities: Future Choices’. The Foresight column 699, on NHS targets, if he will publish the team estimated the cost of obesity and overweight to representations on NHS targets he has received in the the national health service to be £4.2 billion per year. last seven weeks. [5830] The cost to the economy was estimated to be £16 billion per year. Mr Simon Burns: The Department has received correspondence from hon. Members and the public Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health about national health service targets and waiting times. what his most recent estimate is of the rate of (a) The Department does not routinely publish individual obesity and (b) smoking among (i) males and (ii) responses to correspondence as these may contain personal females in each age group (A) in Southend, (B) in each details, publication of which could lead to distress to borough in Essex, (C) in the Metropolitan Police area the individuals concerned. of London and (D) nationally. [5401]

Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Anne Milton: Information is not available in the how his Department will publish information on whether format requested. the quality measures for stroke, dementia and blood Information on the percentage of obese adults aged clots are met. [6292] 16 and over in England is available in the ‘Health Mr Simon Burns: Quality Standards are advice from Survey for England—2008 trend tables’, Adult trend the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence tables, Table 4. Information is provided for adults (Men on high quality care. The first three quality standards and Women) aged 16 and over in England for the years for dementia, stroke and the prevention of venous 1993 to 2008. This publication has already been placed thromboembolism were published on 30 June. Quality in the Library. standards set out the structures and processes that the The proportion of adults aged 16 and over recorded evidence suggests are most likely to deliver high quality as obese by strategic health authority area for 2008 is care. The measures that accompany each of the statements available in Table 7.3 on page 194 of the ‘Health Survey within a quality standard support local monitoring, for for England—2008: physical activity and fitness’. This example by commissioners. publication has been placed in the Library. Although some of the data underpinning the measures Information on prevalence of cigarette smoking by may be published as part of national data collections, sex, country, and Government Office Region of England our focus as a Government is on measuring the outcomes is contained within Table 1.11 of the General Lifestyle of the treatment and care provided to patients rather Survey ‘Smoking and Drinking among adults, 2008’, than processes involved. We intend to set out our vision published by the Office for National Statistics. This for an outcomes framework for the national health publication has been placed in the Library. service shortly. Obesity: Children NHS: Temporary Employment

Mr Redwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many temporary staff are employed by (a) his what estimate he has made in the number of children in each age group who were classified as (a) overweight Department and (b) the NHS. [5488] and (b) obese (i) in Southend, (ii) in each borough in Mr Simon Burns: In the last full year, an average of (A) Essex and (B) Kent, (iii) the Metropolitan Police 58.3 full-time equivalent temporary civil servants and area of London and (iv) nationally in each of the last an average of 865.8 full-time equivalent temporary workers five years. [5463] (agency staff and contractors) worked in the Department. For the national health service: the workforce census Anne Milton: Information is not available in the does not distinguish staff by type of contract. However format requested. numbers of bank nursing staff can be shown. The bank Information on the percentage of overweight and staff figures exclude doctors and all other non-medical obese children in England is available in the “Health staff. Survey for England—2008 trend tables”, child trend The total bank nursing, midwifery and health visiting tables, table 4. Information is provided for children aged staff in England NHS hospital and community health two to 15 in England for the years 1995 to 2008. This services as at 30 September 2009 was 66,693. publication has already been placed in the Library. Information on the proportion of children aged two Obesity to 15 recorded as overweight and obese by strategic health authority area is available for 2008 in table 13.3 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (P327) of the “Health Survey for England—2008: Physical whether he has made a recent estimate of the cost to the activity and Fitness report”. This publication has already economy of illness, economic inactivity and premature been placed in the Library. 349W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 350W

Further information on the proportion of children On 23 June 2010, NICE published public health who are overweight and obese in England is collected guidance titled ‘How to stop smoking in pregnancy and through the National Child Measurement Programme following childbirth’. For partners and others in the (NCMP). Table A and table B of the following reports— household who smoke, the guidance recommends not “National Child Measurement Programme: England, smoking around the pregnant woman, mother or baby. 2008/09 School Year”; “National Child Measurement This includes not smoking in the house or car Programme 2007/08 School Year, Headline Results”; (recommendation 7). The NICE publication is available and “National Child Measurement Programme: 2006/07 on the internet at: School Year, Headline Results” show the prevalence of http://guidance.nice.org.uk/PH26 overweight and obese children aged four to five years and 10 to 11 years by primary care trust, and strategic Smoking: Young People health authority area. Copies of the publications have already been placed in the Library. Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what research into the causes of smoking in young Smoking people his Department has evaluated; and if he will make a statement. [5492] Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Anne Milton: Smoking by young people is a serious (1) whether his Department has made an assessment of public health problem, and the Department keeps published whether the introduction of the smoking ban in July research in this area under review. 2007 affected the incidence of smoking in homes in the presence of children; [5466] In 2009, the Public Health Research Consortium (PHRC) published “A Review of Young People and (2) what assessment he has made of the effects of the Smoking in England”. The PHRC reported that becoming smoking ban on public houses and private members’ a smoker is influenced by a range of factors at an clubs; [5467] individual, family, social, community and societal level. (3) what plans he has to review the smoking ban; and Young people are most at risk of becoming smokers if what public consultation will be held as part of that they grow up and move in social networks where smoking review. [5468] is accepted and perceived to have positive value within social relationships. Anne Milton: From July 2007 the implementation of The PHRC report is available on the internet at: smokefree legislation, there has been consistently high rates of compliance and public support. Opinion surveys www.york.ac.uk/phrc/papers.htm suggest that over eight in 10 people are in support of the We are currently considering how best to tackle this law. issue in the context of our focus on public health, and our priorities given the challenges facing public sector According to the Office for National Statistics publication finances. ‘Smoking-related Behaviours and Attitudes’ in 2008-09, 69% of people said that smoking was not allowed at all Social Services: Manpower in their home, since 2006 when 61% of people said this. A copy of this publication has already been placed in the Library. Research evidence from England and Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary of internationally also demonstrates that smokefree legislation State for Health what estimate he has made of the is effective in reducing exposure to second hand smoke likely number of social workers that will be employed (SHS) in adults and in children, and that there is no in the UK in 2010. [6514] significant evidence that introducing smokefree legislation for public places displaces smoking into the home. Mr Burstow: It is estimated that there are 79,000 social workers employed in England currently. The Research evidence has shown that bar workers’ exposure Department does not estimate the likely number of to SHS has reduced substantially and that the health of social workers that will be employed in the United these workers has improved. (Semple, S. et al. (2010). Kingdom. It is for local social care employers to determine ‘UK smokefree legislation: changes in PM 2.5 the number of social workers they need to employ in concentrations in bars in Scotland, England and Wales’ order to deliver the appropriate services in their community. in Ann.Occup.Hyg., 54, 3, pp.272-280). The Government currently have no plans to review Treatment Centres the legislation. Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the effects of Health what recent discussions he has had with (a) the independent sector treatment centres’ exclusion criteria National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence on NHS teaching hospitals within the same or a (NICE) and (b) public health organisations on the neighbourhood NHS trust. [6030] NICE recommendation that smoking in (i) cars and (ii) public areas used by children and young people under Mr Simon Burns: There has been no formal assessment the age of 18 be prohibited. [5924] of the effects of independent sector treatment centres’ (ISTC) exclusion criteria on national health service Anne Milton: The National Institute for Health and teaching hospitals within the same or a neighbouring Clinical Excellence (NICE) has not made a recommendation NHS trust. that smoking be prohibited in these circumstances. Trainee clinical professionals are able to undertake Therefore, no discussions have taken place. training at ISTCs as part of their training placement 351W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 352W circuit. Independent sector organisations hosting training CABINET OFFICE are subject to the same audit by relevant bodies as other Business NHS organisations. Under Wave One of the ISTC programme, junior Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet doctor training was only required where the case mix Office what the five-year survival rate of small businesses involved transferred activity. Under phase two of the was in (a) Great Yarmouth constituency, (b) the East ISTC programme, ISTCs provide new training opportunities of England and (c) the UK in the latest period for across the entire clinical pathway, as appropriate to the which figures are available. [6170] case mix, for all clinical staff including junior doctors. Training is assessed and agreed with ISTC providers Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the by the relevant Deanery and educational institutions. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Deaneries ensure that ISTC providers meet all of the asked the authority to reply. accreditation requirements of the Post-graduate Medical Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: Education Training Board (PMETB) and non-medical professional regulatory bodies. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Once a Deanery has approved an ISTC for educational concerning what the five year survival rate of small businesses placements, they enter into a training agreement with was in (a) Great Yarmouth constituency, (b) the East of England the respective provider. ISTCs are also represented on and (c) the UK in the latest period for which figures are available. local education steering groups, run by their respective [6170] Deanery. These are mandatory requirements for all Annual statistics on business births, deaths and survival are phase two ISTC contracts. available from the ONS release on Business Demography at www.statistics.gov.uk Tuberculosis The table below contains the latest statistics available on small enterprise five year survival in Great Yarmouth parliamentary constituency, East of England and the United Kingdom. Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The count of births in 2003 and the count and percentage of five-year what steps he plans to take to improve awareness of survival for enterprises with less than 50 employment tuberculosis among (a) health professionals and (b) Five-year Five-year those most at risk. [5457] Geography 2003 births survival percentage

United 266,525 124,160 46.6 Anne Milton: Increasing awareness of tuberculosis Kingdom (TB) among health care professionals and groups most East of England 26,105 12,815 49.1 at risk of infection and providing accessible services are Great 350 160 45.2 key factors in improving early diagnosis and treatment. Yarmouth The Department is funding TB Alert (a United Kingdom A small business is defined as an enterprise with less than 50 charity) to work with groups most vulnerable to TB, employment. and with primary care health professionals to help to build the capacity of local national health service Business: Great Yarmouth organisations, the wider public sector and third sector organisations to run local awareness-raising programmes. Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet In addition, the Department is currently supporting a Office how many businesses (a) started up and (b) Find and Treat service in London to identify and treat ceased in Great Yarmouth constituency in each of the cases of TB among people who are homeless or have last five years. [6083] other complex social needs. This service includes peer educators who raise awareness of TB among these Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the groups and encourage them to get tested. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority to reply. WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 7 July 2010: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for concerning how many businesses (a) started up and (b) ceased in Health what his policy is on the amendment of Articles Great Yarmouth constituency in each of the last five years. [6083] 9 and 10 of the framework convention on tobacco Annual statistics on business births, deaths and survival are control at the forthcoming conference of the parties to available from the ONS release on Business Demography at that convention; and if he will make a statement. www.statistics.gov.uk. The table below contains the latest statistics [5365] available on enterprise births and deaths in Great Yarmouth parliamentary constituency, the past five years. Anne Milton: Parties to the Framework Convention Enterprise births and deaths, 2004-08, Great Yarmouth parliamentary on Tobacco Control (FCTC) have undertaken to implement constituency a range of effective and evidence-based tobacco control Births Deaths measures set out in the treaty, as well as to protect 2004 425 360 public health policy from tobacco industry influence. 2005 375 330 The articles of the FCTC, including articles 9 and 10 on 2006 365 310 the regulation of the contents of tobacco products and 2007 345 300 the regulation of tobacco product disclosures, are not 2008 295 295 being amended. 353W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 354W

Business: Witham carefully. Although this is not the first time we have decided not to identify a charity we have investigated, I should emphasise just how exceptional it is for us to take this step. Priti Patel: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office I hope this helps to explain our position. If you would like to how many small businesses in Witham constituency discuss this further our Director of Legal Services and Compliance, generated a turnover of (a) between £70,000 to Kenneth Dibble, would be happy to do so. Do contact my office £100,000 and (b) over £100,000 in the latest period for to make arrangements. which figures are available. [6725] I hope this is helpful.

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Civil Servants: Great Yarmouth responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: Office if he will make an assessment of the merits of As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I relocating central Government jobs to Great have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Yarmouth. [4717] concerning how many small businesses in Witham constituency generated a turnover of (a) between £70,000 to £ 100,000 and (b) over £100,000 in the latest period for which figures are available. Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply. [6725] No such assessment has been made. Annual statistics on business counts are available from the The location of public sector activity and plans for ONS release UK Business: Activity, Size and Location at the Government’s estate will be considered alongside www.statistics.gov.uk other public spending issues over the course of the Data are for enterprises with less than 50 employment and for the spending review. ward areas that cover the new constituency of Witham for the year 2009. Civil Servants: Networking Count of VAT and/or PAYE based enterprises with less than 50 employment for the area that covers the new constituency of Witham Lisa Nandy: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Turnover Number of enterprises what his policy is on the attendance of civil servants at £70,000 to £99,000 610 (a) the Chemistry Club, (b) the Climate Change Forum £100,000+ 2,180 and (c) other networking events provided by private sector companies. [5217]

Charities: Disability Mr Maude: Civil servant’s attendance at events is governed by the requirements of the Civil Service Code. Philip Davies: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the name is of the charity which was the Deaths: Nutrition subject of the report of the Charity Commission inquiry published on 10 June 2010 entitled Inquiry into a Charity Mr Amess: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office which supports disabled people; what the name is of how many deaths (a) in Southend, (b) in Essex and (a) its chief executive and (b) each of its trustees; and (c) nationally were attributed to an individual being which two councils made a complaint against the charity. (i) overweight and (ii) underweight in each of the last [5036] five years. [5402]

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Charity Commission. I have asked responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have the Commission to reply. asked the authority to reply. Letter from Andrew Hind, dated 30 June 2010: Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2010: As the Chief Executive of the Charity Commission, I have As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I been asked to respond to your written Parliamentary Question on have been asked to reply to your recent question asking how many the inquiry report we published on 10 June 2010, in which we did deaths (a) in Southend, (b) in Essex and (c) nationally were not disclose the name of the charity involved or its chief executive, attributed to an individual being (i) overweight and (ii) underweight trustees or the complainants. in each of the last five years. (5402) As you may know, the Charity Commission has powers to The terms ‘overweight’ and ‘underweight’ are not normally open a statutory inquiry under Section 8 of the Charities Act used in the registration of deaths. Consequently, figures can only 1993. We only use these powers in the most serious of cases, be provided for deaths recorded using the medically recognised instead dealing with most complaints and concerns through terms ‘obesity’ and ‘malnutrition’ or ‘effects of hunger’. The working with charity trustees to rectify problems and put charities number of deaths so recorded is unlikely to be a complete or back on the right track. For reasons of transparency and accurate reflection of the actual numbers of deaths which result, accountability, and in order to disseminate ″lessons learnt″ to the directly or indirectly, from being overweight or underweight. wider sector, it is our usual and established policy to publish a The tables attached provide the number of deaths where (i) report at the conclusion of a statutory inquiry. obesity was the underlying cause of death (Table 1) or was In the case in question, the legal advice was clear that, as a mentioned on the death certificate, either as the underlying cause public body, the Commission’s obligations under the Human or as a contributory factor (Table 2), and where (ii) malnutrition Rights Act 1998 and the principles of the Data Protection Act was the underlying cause of death (Table 3) or malnutrition and 1998 prevent us from being able to disclose the identity of the effects of hunger were mentioned on the death certificate, either charity or those connected to it. Regretfully, I cannot, therefore, as the underlying cause or as a contributory factor (Table 4), for answer your question directly. The decision not to name the (a) Southend-on-Sea unitary authority, (b) Essex county and (c) charity is not in any way to absolve the trustees of any responsibility England and Wales, for the years 2005 to 2009 (the latest year and, as you would expect, we continue to monitor the situation available). 355W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 356W

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales each Table 4. Number of deaths where malnutrition and effects of hunger year by sex, age and cause are published annually on the National were mentioned on the death certificate, Southend-on-Sea unitary Statistics website at: authority, Essex county, and England and Wales, 2005 to 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 Deaths (persons) http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15096 England and Table 1. Number of deaths where obesity was the underlying cause of Southend-on-Sea Essex Wales death, Southend-on-Sea unitary authority, Essex county, and England and Wales, 2005 to 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 2009 2 6 375 1 Deaths (persons) Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes E40-E46 (malnutrition) and England and T73.0 (effects of hunger). Deaths were included where these causes Southend-on-Sea Essex Wales were mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, either as the underlying cause or as a contributory factor. Effects of hunger is only 2005 0 7 232 ever recorded as a contributory factor. Figures in Table 3 are therefore 2006 0 4 261 included in the figures in Table 4. 2007 0 6 262 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 2008 0 13 337 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 2009 0 10 324 5 Figures for deaths registered in 2009 are provisional. 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code E66 (obesity). Departmental Directors 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Mr Carswell: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 5 Figures for deaths registered in 2009 are provisional. Office (1) how many candidates for the role of lead Table 2. Number of deaths where obesity was mentioned on the death non-executive director his Department considered; and certificate, Southend-on-Sea unitary authority, Essex county, and whether the role was (a) open to competition and (b) England and Wales, 2005 to 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 advertised; [6410] Deaths (persons) England and (2) if he will publish the advice he received from the Southend-on-Sea Essex Wales Cabinet Secretary on the process of appointment of the Government’s lead non-executive director; [6411] 2005 2 22 993 2006 0 23 1,150 (3) what the (a) statutory and (b) prerogative basis is (i) for its appointment of a lead non-executive director 2007 1 38 1,203 for Government and (ii) the provision of advice to 2008 0 54 1,479 Ministers on the appointment of such directors to 2009 2 38 1,672 enhance boards of Government Departments; [6495] 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code E66 (obesity). Deaths were (4) what criteria his Department used to determine included where this cause was mentioned anywhere on the death the (a) qualities and (b) competencies required of the certificate, either as the underlying cause or as a contributory factor. Government’s lead non-executive director. [6499] Figures in Table 1 are therefore included in the figures in Table 2. 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. Mr Maude: The appointment of Lord Browne is a 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. personal, non-statutory ministerial appointment made 5 Figures for deaths registered in 2009 are provisional. by the Minister for the Cabinet Office following interview Table 3. Number of deaths where malnutrition was the underlying by the Cabinet Secretary and Minister for the Cabinet cause of death, Southend-on-Sea unitary authority, Essex county, and England and Wales, 2005 to 20001, 2, 3, 4, 5 Office. Lord Browne has been appointed on the basis of his long standing business experience. The appointment Deaths (persons) is unpaid and was not subject to open competition. . England and Southend-on-Sea Essex Wales Departmental Internet 2005 0 0 61 2006 0 1 75 2007 0 3 79 Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2008 0 1 67 Office if he will place in the Library a copy of the tender 2009 0 1 82 document in respect of the Your Freedom website; how 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of many companies tendered to build the website; and if Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes E40-E46 (malnutrition). he will make a statement. [6540] 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. The Deputy Prime Minister [holding answer 6 July 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. 5 Figures for deaths registered in 2009 are provisional. 2010]: I have been asked to reply Table 4. Number of deaths where malnutrition and effects of hunger The Your Freedom web project was commissioned were mentioned on the death certificate, Southend-on-Sea unitary through a single tender action using the COI framework. authority, Essex county, and England and Wales, 2005 to 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 This was because of the tight deadlines involved. There Deaths (persons) is no requirement to produce tender documentation for England and a single tender procurement. Southend-on-Sea Essex Wales 2005 0 1 280 Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2006 0 7 344 Office how many staff in his Department have been 2007 0 12 353 allocated to work on the Your Freedom project; and on 2008 0 7 382 what date he expects the project to be completed. [6541] 357W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 358W

The Deputy Prime Minister [holding answer 6 July Name of NDPB Address of Head Office 2010]: I have been asked to reply. 10 staff from the strategic communications, press office, digital and policy teams have worked on the Your Senior Salaries Review Office of Manpower Economics, 6th Freedom project. None of these staff worked on the Body (SSRB) Floor, Kingsgate House, 66-74 project full-time and no new staff have been recruited. Victoria Street, London SW1E 6SW The project is on-going. Boundary Commission for 2nd Floor, Steel House 11 Tothill Departmental Lost Property England Street London SW1H 9LJ

Pete Wishart: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Boundary Commission for Caradog House 1-6 St Andrews Place Office what property has been recorded as (a) lost and Wales Cardiff CF10 3BE (b) stolen from the Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate has been made of the cost of the Employment: Great Yarmouth replacement of that property. [5979] Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office has recorded one Office how many people in Great Yarmouth constituency BlackBerry and one mobile phone reported as either are employed in the (a) public and (b) private sector. lost or stolen in the last 12 months. The estimated cost of their replacement is £475. [5936]

Departmental NDPBs Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority to reply. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the address is of the head office of each Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: non-departmental public body for which his As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Department is responsible. [5725] have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many people in Great Yarmouth constituency are employed in (a) public and (b) private sector. (5936) Mr Maude: As at 30 June 2010, the Cabinet Office is responsible for 11 small advisory non-departmental The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles employment statistics for local areas from the Annual Population Survey public bodies and two executive bodies. (APS) following International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. The Head Office addresses for the Non-Departmental Individuals are classified to the public or private sector according Public Bodies are as shown in the following table: to their responses to the APS. Consequently, the classification of an individual’s sector may differ from how they would be classified Name of NDPB Address of Head Office in the National Accounts. As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject Executive NDPBs to a margin of uncertainty. For the twelve month period January Capacitybuilders 77 Paradise Circus, Queensway, to December 2009 it is estimated there were 33,000 people employed Commission for the Birmingham B1 2DT in the private sector in Great Yarmouth parliamentary constituency, Compact however estimates for the number of people employed in the public sector are not considered reliable for statistical purposes. Advisory NDPBs National and local area estimates for many labour market Advisory Committee on 3rd Floor, 35 Great Smith Street, statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant Business Appointments London SW1P 3BQ count are available on the NOMIS website at (ACOBA) http://www.nomisweb.co.uk

Civil Service Appeal Room G32, 22 Whitehall London Jobseeker’s Allowance: Great Yarmouth Board (CSAB) SW1H 2WH Brandon Lewis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Committee on Standards 35 Great Smith Street, London SW1P in Public Life (CSPL) 3BQ Office what the claimant count in Great Yarmouth constituency was on the most recent date for which House of Lords Appointments figures are available. [6208] Commission (HOLAC) Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Main Honours Advisory Honours and Appointments responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Committee Secretariat, Cabinet Office, Admiralty asked the authority to reply. Arch (South Side) London SW1A Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: 2WH As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking nd Office for the Civil Society Office for Civil Society 2 Floor what the claimant count in Great Yarmouth constituency was on Advisory Body Admiralty Arch (South Side) London the most recent date for which figures are available. (6208). SW1A 2WH The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre Security Commission Room 2.42, Ripley Building, 26 Plus administrative system. Security Vetting Appeals Whitehall, London SW1A 2WH Panel There were 3,112 people resident in the Great Yarmouth constituency claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance in May 2010. 359W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 360W

National and local area estimates for many labour market (a) Slough - boundaries unchanged since 2008, statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant (b) Salisbury - this contained 27 electoral wards in 2008, six count are available on the NOMIS website at more than the current parliamentary constituency for Salisbury. http://www.nomisweb.co.uk The breakdown of the data available is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether the newly constituted parliamentary constituency Lone Parents contains the lone parent families, and (c) Scarborough and Whitby - boundaries unchanged since 2008. Ann McKechin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many lone parents there are in (a) Glasgow Number of lone parent families-with North and (b) Ealing Central and Acton constituency. Geographical area at least one child under 16 (thousands) [5997] Slough constituency 3 (current) Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Salisbury constituency n/a responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have (current) asked the Authority to reply. Salisbury constituency 2 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 7 July 2010: (2008) As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Scarborough and Whitby 2 have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question constituency (current) asking how many lone parents there are in (a) Glasgow North n/a = not available. and (b) Ealing Central and Acton constituencies. (5997) Source: APS January to December 2008 The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided for lone parent families which include at least one child aged under 16. Lone Parents: Ashton-in-Makerfield The table below shows the latest available figures which are for 2008 on the 2008 parliamentary constituency boundaries. Data Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet are provided for: Office how many lone parents there are in Makerfield (a) Glasgow North - boundaries unchanged since 2008, and constituency. [6200] (b) Ealing, Acton and Shepherds Bush - this contained 12 electoral wards in 2008, four more than the current parliamentary Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the constituency for Ealing Central and Acton. The breakdown of responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have the data available is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether asked the authority to reply. the newly constituted parliamentary constituency contains the lone parent families. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, 1 Number of lone parent families-with have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question at least one child under 16 asking how many lone parents there arc in Makerfield constituency. Geographical area (thousands) (6200) Glasgow North constituency 2 The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated (current) using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided Haling, Acton and Shepherds 5 for lone parent families which include at least one child aged Bush constituency (2008) under 16. Ealing Central and Acton n/a The table below shows the latest available figures which are for constituency (current) 2008 on the 2008 parliamentary constituency boundaries. Makerfield n/a = not available. as constituted in 2008 comprised 13 electoral wards, five more Source: than the current constituency. The breakdown of the data available APS January to December 2008 is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether the newly constituted parliamentary constituency contains the lone parent families. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many lone parents there are in (a) Slough, Number of lone parent families with at least one child under 16 (b) Salisbury and (c) Scarborough and Whitby Geographical area (thousand) constituency. [6012] Makerfield constituency (current) n/a Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Makerfield constituency (2008) 2 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have n/a = not available asked the Authority to reply. Source: APS January to December 2008 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 7 July 2010: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Lone Parents: Worsley asking how many lone parents there are in (a) Slough, (b) Salisbury and (c) Scarborough and Whitby constituencies. (6012) Barbara Keeley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated Office how many lone parents there are in Worsley and using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided [6139] for lone parent families which include at least one child aged Eccles South constituency. under 16. The table below shows the latest available figures which are for Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the 2008 on the 2008 parliamentary constituency boundaries. Data responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have are provided for: asked the authority to reply. 361W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 362W

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: Table 1: Population change due to net migration and other changes, UK, mid-1990 to mid-2009 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Year Net migration and other changes asking how many lone parents there are in Worsley and Eccles 2001-02 143,300 South constituency. (6139) 2002-03 156,500 The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated 2003-04 185,700 using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided for lone parent families which include at least one child aged 2004-05 266,800 under 16. The table below shows the latest available figures which are for 2005-06 190,100 2008 on the 2008 parliamentary constituency boundaries. Data 2006-07 214,400 are provided for the two separate parliamentary constituencies 2007-08 192,100 (’Worsley’ and ’Eccles’) as constituted in 2008. These two combined 2008-09 177,200 are substantially larger than the current parliamentary constituency (‘Worsley and Eccles South’). The breakdown of the data available Note: is not sufficiently detailed to determine whether the newly constituted ‘Other changes’ includes changes in the population due to changes in parliamentary constituency contains the lone parent families. the number of armed forces (both foreign and home) and their dependents resident in the UK. Sources: Number of lone parent families- Office for National Statistics, General Register Office for Scotland with at least one child under 16 and Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency Geographical area (thousand) National Citizen Service Worsley and Eccles South n/a constituency (current) Worsley constituency (2008) 3 Stephen Mosley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Eccles constituency (2008) 4 Office what the planned implementation date is of the pilot of the National Citizen Service for 16 year-olds. n/a = not available Source: [5883] APS January to December 2008 Mr Hurd: Full details of this programme will be Migration announced by the Cabinet Office later this year, with a launch expected in 2011. Mr Clappison: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what estimate his Department has made of the New Businesses volume of population growth (a) directly and (b) indirectly attributable to migration in each year since Graham Evans: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 1990. [5300] Office how many new businesses have been started in (a) Weaver Vale constituency, (b) West Cheshire and Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Chester unitary authority, (c) Halton borough council, responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have (d) the North West and (e) the UK in each year since asked the authority to reply. 1997. [6281] Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2010: Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your question asking what estimate he information requested falls within the responsibility has been made of the volume of population growth (a) directly of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority and (b) indirectly attributable to migration in each year since 1990 to reply. (5300). Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated 7 July 2010: (a) Table 1 shows the volume of UK population growth As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I directly attributable to migration in each year since mid-1990. have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question (b) ONS does not have the necessary information to provide an concerning how many new businesses have been started in (a) estimate of the volume of population growth indirectly attributable Weaver Vale constituency, (b) West Cheshire and Chester Unitary to migration. Authority, (c) Halton Borough Council, (d) the North West and Table 1: Population change due to net migration and other changes, (e) the UK in each year since 1997. [6281] UK, mid-1990 to mid-2009 Annual statistics on business births, deaths and survival are Year Net migration and other changes available from the ONS release on Business Demography at www.statistics.gov.uk from 2002 onwards. The table below contains 1990-91 47,800 the latest statistics available on enterprise births in a) Weaver Vale 1991-92 -11,400 constituency, (b) West Cheshire and Chester Unitary Authority, 1992-93 500 (c) Halton Borough Council, (d) the North West and (e) the UK in each year since 2002. 1993-94 36,000 1994-95 55,800 Enterprise births from 2002-08 West Weaver Cheshire 1995-96 62,200 Vale and Chester Halton North United 1996-97 47,000 constituency UA UA West Kingdom 1997-98 60,300 2002 285 1,200 290 24,625 242,540 1998-99 132,800 2003 330 1.355 345 27,225 267,000 1999-2000 139,300 2004 325 1,300 360 28,845 280,080 2005 375 1,490 400 29,220 274,855 2000-01 153,200 363W Written Answers7 JULY 2010 Written Answers 364W

Enterprise births from 2002-08 The count of enterprise births from 2005-08 in Enfield North West parliamentary constituency, the London borough of Enfield and Weaver Cheshire London Vale and Chester Halton North United 2005 2006 2007 2008 constituency UA UA West Kingdom Enfield 405 410 360 485 2006 330 1,425 380 27,265 255,530 North 2007 375 1,650 445 30,190 280,730 Enfield 1,380 1,385 1,285 1,440 2008 375 1,600 425 27,650 270,215 London 51,285 47,890 53,120 59,100

New Businesses: Greater London Public Bodies Bill

Nick de Bois: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet John Healey: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many new businesses have been started in Office how many officials of his Department are working (a) London, (b) the London Borough of Enfield and on preparations for the Public Bodies Bill. [5112] (c) Enfield North constituency in each year since 2005. [5592] Mr Maude: Within the Cabinet Office, 3.5 whole-time equivalent officials are involved in preparations for the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Public Bodies Bill. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Well-being Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2010: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Jo Swinson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Office if he will take steps to (a) promote and (b) concerning how many new businesses have been started in (a) measure general well-being during the current Parliament; London, (b) the London Borough of Enfield and (c) Enfield and if he will make a statement. [6676] North constituency in each year since 2005. [5592] Annual statistics on business births, deaths and survival are Mr Maude: Within the civil service health and well-being available from the ONS release on Business Demography at is one of our corporate priorities. The Cabinet Office is www.statistics.gov.uk. working with other Government Departments to promote The table below contains the latest statistics available on enterprise health and well-being at work and has published a cross births in Enfield North parliamentary constituency, the London Civil Service Health and Wellbeing Framework that is Borough of Enfield and London over the past four years. available to all Departments via the Civil Pages.

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 351 INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued 1GOAL Summit ...... 353 Millennium Development Goals Summit...... 357 Aid Expenditure (Legislation)...... 356 Pakistan ...... 351 Aid Expenditure (Transparency)...... 352 Poverty and Hunger Eradication...... 360 Caribbean Countries...... 355 Tackling Climate Change...... 358 Colombia ...... 355 Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act ...... 359 PRIME MINISTER ...... 361 Education ...... 360 Decent Homes Programme ...... 370 Funding Decisions ...... 359 Engagements...... 361 Media High Council (Rwanda) ...... 353 Engagements...... 371 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 11WS EDUCATION...... 11WS Ordnance Survey (Performance Targets)...... 11WS Behaviour and Discipline in Schools ...... 11WS PETITION

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. PRESENTED PETITION Intensive Care (West Sussex) ...... 3P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 254W CABINET OFFICE—continued Corruption...... 254W Departmental Internet ...... 356W Departmental Official Cars...... 254W Departmental Lost Property...... 357W Law Officers...... 255W Departmental NDPBs ...... 357W Employment: Great Yarmouth ...... 358W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 317W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Great Yarmouth ...... 358W Animal Experiments ...... 317W Lone Parents...... 359W Business: Regulation...... 317W Lone Parents: Ashton-in-Makerfield ...... 360W Business: West Midlands ...... 317W Lone Parents: Worsley...... 360W Company Finance...... 317W Migration...... 361W Connexions Service...... 318W National Citizen Service ...... 362W Departmental Lost Property...... 318W New Businesses...... 362W Departmental Official Photographs...... 318W New Businesses: Greater London...... 363W Higher Education ...... 318W Public Bodies Bill...... 364W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 319W Well-being...... 364W Higher Education: Finance...... 320W Postcomm: Public Appointments...... 320W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 257W Sector Skills Council for Construction ...... 320W Departmental Conferences...... 257W Summertime...... 321W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 257W Termination of Employment ...... 321W Housing and Planning Delivery Grant: Tower Hamlets ...... 257W CABINET OFFICE...... 352W Infrastructure Planning Commission ...... 258W Business ...... 352W Local Government: Manpower...... 259W Business: Great Yarmouth...... 352W Business: Witham ...... 353W Charities: Disability ...... 353W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 261W Civil Servants: Great Yarmouth ...... 354W Departmental Lost Property ...... 261W Civil Servants: Networking...... 354W Departmental Manpower...... 262W Deaths: Nutrition ...... 354W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 262W Departmental Directors...... 356W Public Libraries: Information Services ...... 262W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 251W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 251W continued Army...... 252W Tunnel Tech ...... 283W Departmental Official Cars...... 252W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 252W HMS Sultan...... 253W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 310W Military Bases: Aviation...... 253W Abdelbasit Ali Mohmed al Megrahi...... 310W Nimrod Aircraft...... 253W Afghanistan: Religious Freedom ...... 311W RAF St Athan ...... 254W Bosnia and Herzegovina: Politics and Government...... 311W Counter-terrorism: Finance ...... 312W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 314W Departmental Public Expenditure ...... 312W Constituencies...... 314W Departmental Training ...... 312W Dissolution ...... 314W Exports ...... 312W Electoral Reform: Referendums...... 314W Members: Correspondence ...... 313W Electoral Register...... 315W Sri Lanka...... 313W House of Lords ...... 315W Sri Lanka: Human Rights ...... 313W House of Lords: Reform ...... 315W Tracey Lee Ann Foley...... 313W Parliamentary Reform Bill...... 316W Turkey: Politics and Government ...... 314W Primary Elections ...... 316W Royal Prerogative...... 316W HEALTH...... 341W EDUCATION...... 269W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse ...... 341W Academies...... 269W Benzodiazepines and Antidepressants ...... 341W Academies: Cheshire...... 269W Departmental Official Cars ...... 342W Academies: Nutrition...... 269W Departmental Property...... 342W British Educational Communications and Departmental Public Expenditure ...... 344W Technology Agency...... 269W Fats: Health Hazards...... 343W Education: Finance...... 270W Fluoride: Drinking Water ...... 343W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 270W Food: Advertising ...... 344W Education: VAT ...... 270W Food: Labelling...... 344W Education: Worcestershire...... 271W Health Visitors: Waltham Forest ...... 345W Financial Services: Education ...... 271W Hospitals: Consultants...... 345W Free School Meals: Streatham...... 271W Hospitals: Food ...... 345W Free Schools: Cheshire...... 271W Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust ...... 346W Further Education: Greater London...... 271W Mental Health Services...... 346W History: Curriculum ...... 272W NHS: ICT...... 346W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 272W NHS: Social Responsibility ...... 346W Pupils: Per Capita Costs...... 272W NHS: Standards...... 347W Schools: Management...... 276W NHS: Temporary Employment...... 347W Schools: Transport ...... 276W Obesity...... 347W Sixth Form Education...... 277W Obesity: Children...... 348W Special Educational Needs...... 277W Smoking...... 349W Special Educational Needs: Finance ...... 277W Smoking: Young People...... 350W Social Services: Manpower ...... 350W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 336W Treatment Centres...... 350W Climate Change: International Cooperation...... 336W Tuberculosis...... 351W Departmental Buildings...... 337W WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Departmental Carbon Emissions...... 337W Control ...... 351W Departmental Official Photographs...... 337W Fuel Poverty: Richmond Park ...... 337W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 284W Green Investment Bank ...... 338W ACPO Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service and Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change...... 338W National Wildlife Crime Unit ...... 284W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs ...... 339W Alcoholic Drinks: Retail Trade ...... 284W Taxation: Carbon Emissions...... 339W Alcoholic Drinks: Young People ...... 284W Wind Power ...... 339W Asylum: Legal Aid and Assistance...... 284W British Nationality: War Crimes...... 285W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Corruption...... 285W AFFAIRS...... 278W Crime...... 285W Agriculture: Regulation...... 278W Departmental Equality ...... 286W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 278W DNA: Databases...... 286W Bees...... 279W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 286W Biosafety Protocol...... 279W Foreign Workers...... 287W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 280W Immigration: Applications ...... 287W Departmental Official Photographs ...... 281W Passports: Intelligence Services ...... 288W Departmental Reorganisation...... 281W Police: Manpower ...... 289W Dogs ...... 282W Police: Retirement ...... 289W EU Grants and Loans: Northern Ireland...... 282W Yvonne Fletcher...... 289W Flood Control...... 282W Oak Processionary Moth ...... 282W Rural Payments Agency ...... 283W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION ...... 251W Rural Payments Agency: Standards ...... 283W 1 Parliament Street: Air Conditioning...... 251W Col. No. Col. No. INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY TREASURY ...... 290W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 268W Budget June 2010 ...... 290W Manpower...... 268W Capital Gains Tax ...... 290W Child Benefit : Camden...... 290W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 267W Child Trust Fund : Tower Hamlets...... 290W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 267W Credit Unions ...... 291W Aid Expenditure: Legislation ...... 267W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 291W Centre for Progressive Health Financing...... 267W Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation .. 291W Departmental NDPBs...... 268W EU Budget ...... 292W Overseas Aid...... 268W EU Law: Fines ...... 292W Pregnant Women: Grants...... 293W JUSTICE...... 299W Public Expenditure...... 293W Courts: Video Conferencing...... 299W Public Expenditure: Wales ...... 293W Departmental Official Cars...... 299W Public Finance ...... 294W Immigration: Asylum...... 300W Public Sector: Pay ...... 295W Prison Accommodation ...... 300W Regional Growth Fund ...... 295W Prison Sentences: Reoffenders...... 300W Revenue and Customs: Standards ...... 295W Prison Service: Manpower ...... 301W Savings Gateway ...... 296W Prisoners Abroad ...... 303W Tax Allowances: Renewable Energy ...... 296W Prisoners’ Transfers: Rehabilitation...... 310W Tax Credit...... 296W Taxation: Banks ...... 297W VAT ...... 297W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 268W VAT: NHS and Local Government ...... 298W Departmental Conferences...... 268W Welfare Tax Credits...... 298W Departmental Lost Property ...... 269W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 321W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 260W Children: Maintenance ...... 321W Departmental Conferences...... 260W Departmental Conferences ...... 322W Departmental Equality ...... 260W Departmental Equality ...... 323W Departmental finance ...... 260W Departmental Training ...... 324W Departmental Lost Property ...... 261W Disability Living Allowance...... 324W Departmental Training ...... 261W Funeral Payments ...... 324W Future Jobs Fund ...... 324W SCOTLAND...... 256W Housing Benefit...... 325W Departmental Training ...... 256W Housing Benefit: Tower Hamlets...... 327W Departmental Travel ...... 256W Jobseekers Allowance...... 328W Lone Parents: Lancashire ...... 328W TRANSPORT ...... 263W Mortgages: Government Assistance ...... 328W Airport Economic Regulation Bill ...... 263W Pension Credit: Richmond Park ...... 328W Aviation: Passengers...... 263W Pensioners...... 329W Crossrail: Pay...... 263W Pensioners: Ashton-in-Makerfield ...... 330W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 263W Pensioners: Bishop Auckland ...... 330W Leamside Railway Line ...... 264W Pensioners: Enfield ...... 331W Merchant Shipping: Registration ...... 264W Pensioners: Greater Manchester ...... 331W Network Rail: Pay...... 264W Pensioners: Houghton-le-Spring ...... 332W Railways...... 264W Pensioners: Hull...... 332W Railways: Cycling...... 264W Pensioners: Lancashire...... 333W Railways: Fares ...... 265W Pensioners: Ministerial Policy Advisers ...... 333W Railways: Freight ...... 265W Pensioners: Motherwell...... 333W Railways: Repairs and Maintenance ...... 265W Pensioners: Worsley ...... 334W Rolling stock...... 265W Pensions Act 2008...... 334W Thameslink Railway Line...... 266W Social Security Benefits ...... 335W Transport for London: Finance...... 266W Social Security Benefits: Lewisham ...... 335W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 266W Unemployment: Older Workers ...... 336W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Wednesday 7 July 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 351] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for International Development Prime Minister

Afghanistan [Col. 373] Statement—(Dr Fox)

Opposition Day [3rd allotted day] Jobs and the Unemployed [Col. 390] Motion—(Yvette Cooper)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Chris Grayling)—agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to

Schools Funding [Col. 484] Statement—(Michael Gove)

Petition [Col. 493]

British Waterways [Col. 494] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain) [Col. 69WH] Road Networks (Harlow) [Col. 94WH] Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services [Col. 103WH] Court Closures (Yorkshire) [Col. 127WH] Paediatric Cardiac Surgery [Col. 136WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 11WS]

Petition [Col. 3P]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 251W] [see index inside back page]