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Monday Volume 675 27 April 2020 No. 50 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday 27 April 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 89 27 APRIL 2020 90 Robert Buckland: I thank my hon. Friend for that House of Commons question. Indeed, we continue to focus effort on ensuring that we have an adequate supply of personal protective Monday 27 April 2020 equipment in all its forms and reliable supply chains too. Our reporting shows that we have a sufficient level of supply to meet our current forecast demand position The House met at half-past Two o’clock on most items, including aprons, eye protection, gloves, masks and hand sanitiser. We have stock of most of those items in the tens of thousands, with further deliveries PRAYERS scheduled to allow us to meet forecast demand. We are currently running low, however, on coveralls, where [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] there is a shortfall in the low thousands. We have a large delivery on order, and it is expected this week or next. The House entered into hybrid scrutiny proceedings (Order, 22 April). Peter Aldous [V]: I am grateful to the Secretary of [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] State for that answer. The feedback that I am receiving from officers working in prisons in Suffolk and Norfolk is that social distancing guidelines are not being adhered Oral Answers to Questions to and that there is a limited amount of PPE, with a notable absence of face masks. Can he assure the House that he will work with prison officers and their representatives to address those understandable worries? JUSTICE Robert Buckland: My hon. Friend can be assured that my officials work closely with the Prison Officers The Secretary of State was asked— Association. The restricted regimes we have put in place mean that prisoners are spending more of their time in Covid-19: Prisons their cells, to support social distancing. When they are allowed out of their cells—for example, for exercise, Alan Mak (Havant) (Con): What steps his Department association or showering—it is on a rota basis, in small, is taking to tackle covid-19 on the prison estate. [901938] manageable groups supervised by officers, allowing for social distancing to be maintained. The message to stick Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What steps his to the guidance is being reinforced through gold command Department is taking to tackle covid-19 on the prison as part of the command and control structures that estate. [901947] now operate right across our prison estate, and we are reinforcing that message through a range of activity—for Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland example, via posters and prison radio. West) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the preparedness of prisons to respond to the covid-19 Mrs Hodgson [V]: While most prisons are taking outbreak. [901944] every precaution to prevent the spread of covid-19, union sources report that some rogue governors are Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): What assessment attempting to return to business-as-usual practices, such he has made of the preparedness of prisons to respond as unlocking large numbers of prisoners and restarting to the covid-19 outbreak. [901952] training courses. Does the Secretary of State condemn that reckless behaviour and agree that all governors The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should be following official guidance, without exception? (Robert Buckland): We have taken significant and unprecedented action during this very difficult period Robert Buckland: The hon. Lady is right to point out to save lives and to protect the NHS. We know that the danger of over-enthusiasm going ahead of the further progress is needed if we are to continue to strike guidance. It is clear that the work that has been done by a balance between limiting the spread of covid-19 and governors, staff and, indeed, the prisoners themselves protecting the public. We have restricted regimes in in our institutions has helped to minimise the sort of prisons and minimised inter-prison transfers to reduce explosive outbreak that we were quite rightly worried the spread of the virus, and we are implementing units about. My advice—my instruction—to everybody involved to protect the sick, to shield the vulnerable and to in this is to stick to the guidelines. We are not in a cohort new arrivals to reduce risk. There are positive position yet to change that regime. Please follow the signs that our carefully implemented approach is limiting guidelines that have been set out clearly by Her Majesty’s the impact of this initial phase of the pandemic. The Prison and Probation Service. number of cases and deaths is much lower than originally predicted, but we will continue to do everything possible Dan Jarvis [V]: Tomorrow the nation will mark to ensure that that remains the case. International Workers’ Memorial Day with a minute’s silence, to pay tribute to workers—including prison officers Alan Mak [V]: Prison officers, including those from —who have lost their lives while protecting us. Will the Havant, are working on the frontline to tackle covid-19 Secretary of State join me in recognising the dedication on the prison estate. Can my right hon. and learned and sacrifice of our prison staff and thank them for Friend assure me that they have the right protective performing a vital public service while putting their clothing and equipment to keep them safe? own health and safety at risk? 91 Oral Answers 27 APRIL 2020 Oral Answers 92 Robert Buckland: I am extremely grateful to the hon. have died as a result of the virus, and we have 15 confirmed Gentleman for reminding the House and the country of prisoner deaths. On the number of confirmed cases, the sacrifice made by many dedicated public workers, there are 321 among prisoners and 293 among prison including our incredible prison staff. I will be speaking staff. again to the Prison Officers Association later this afternoon On early release, progress has, I admit, been careful to extend my continued thanks to them and their members and slow, but we have reached a position now where, for their dedication. I pay tribute to those who are also taking into account the release of pregnant women, unwell and I remember those members of our prison a total of 33 prisoners have been released. The right and probation service who have sadly died because of hon. Gentleman will know that I did not embark upon covid-19. this scheme lightly. It is the result of a very careful risk Mr Speaker: I call the Chair of the Select Committee assessment to minimise the risk to the public, and of on Justice. course it is coupled with the increase in prison capacity of about 3,000, which to my judgment and that of those Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con) [V]: who advise me is already making a big difference in I know that all members of the Select Committee will creating the space we need to increase compartmentalisation wish to associate themselves with the Secretary of State’s and reduce the spread of the virus. tribute to prison staff and their work. Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that Mr Lammy: With just 33 released out of up to 4,000, although the rates of infection are mercifully much the Secretary of State will recognise that, under the lower than expected and anticipated—we are glad of restrictive regime he talked about, prisoners cannot be that—very great strain is none the less being placed kept in their cells for 23 hours a day, which puts prison particularly upon overcrowded, older and Victorian staff at risk, never mind potentially seriously breaching and local prisons, which are frequently carrying far important human rights. What is his exit strategy in more prisoners than they were intended for? Will he terms of tracing, upping testing and moving back to a confirm that the Government will use all measures, degree of order in our prisons, without which we could including, where appropriate, targeted early release, to see rising tensions across the country? meet our legal responsibilities in domestic and European law to protect the welfare of prisoners in the state’s custody and that of staff employed to carry out their Robert Buckland: The right hon. Gentleman will know duties in safeguarding those prisoners? that that is very much on my mind every day. I view the strategy as a long-term one. As conditions change in the Robert Buckland: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, community, the pressure will be on within the prison the Chair of the Select Committee, for pointing out the estate to do similar. I think that prisoners have so far vital importance of maintaining HMPPS’scurrent approach understood and been brought with us in terms of the of making sure we do not end up with explosive outbreaks need to isolate. Our policy of compartmentalisation— of covid-19 on the estate. He is right to point out the which, do not forget, is not yet fully complete across the early release scheme. It is but a part of a co-ordinated estate—will allow us the space and the room to strategy that has included the compartmentalisation of accommodate the needs of prisoners even more widely. prisoners to prevent the seeding and feeding of the That policy, together with the progressive reduction in infection, and that, together with the increased capacity the overall number of people in the male estate in we are developing at pace, plus a reduction in the particular, will have the cumulative effect that the right overall number of prisoners in the estate, has helped us hon.

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