The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project GARY B. CROCKER Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: March 27, 2012 Copyright 2015 ADST Q: Today is the 27th of March, 2012, with Gary B. Crocker and this is being done on behalf of the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training and I’m Charles Stuart Kennedy. And Gary, let’s start at the beginning: when and where were you born? CROCKER: I was born in Spokane, Washington, and lived there and in nearby Kellogg, Idaho, until third grade. Q: When were you born? CROCKER: 1940. Q: Nineteen-forty. Let’s talk about the Crockers- on your father’s side first; what’s the background there? CROCKER: My father's grandfather came from Minnesota to Seattle in a covered wagon after he fought in the Civil war. Seattle was founded in 1850, so he was there as a pioneer. His son was born in Seattle as was my dad. Dad's mother came in a covered wagon as a young girl and played an interesting role in the development of Seattle. Q: What were the Crockers in Minnesota? Farmers? CROCKER: Great Grandfather Crocker was a farmer and Indian agent in Minnesota. Q: Lumber by any chance? CROCKER: Grandmother Crocker's father came out and logged off the University of Washington and he was in lumber and logging in Minnesota, He was a Rogers. And so Grandma came out and they link with the Dennys, which are the people who founded Seattle from the sea. So we have a very long history in that town. My father was one of six children. He grew up in Seattle and went to the University of Washington, where I did, and went in the Navy during the war. So when I say I was born in 1940 my first five years was all about war.. 1 Q: Okay, let’s say when you got into Seattle what was your father up to? CROCKER: My father was influenced by his grandfather Rueben Crocker because his father left the family and moved to Spokane. Reuben was the oldest Civil War veteran in Seattle and I still have his flag and history of the Crockers back to the Revolutionary War. Q: What did he do in the Civil War? CROCKER: He was with an artillery unit, the Minnesota Irregulars, and he was down there fighting in Atlanta where my wife is from.. So he did that and he finally moves out to Seattle, was kind of a well known citizen of Seattle and a real character and I’ve spent a lot of time studying him, Q: Well let’s talk a little about this to give a flavor for his life in Seattle? CROCKER: Now when he moved to Seattle he did a number of things. He was involved in community politics. Also, let’s see, he was a farmer and they homesteaded. My grandmother and my great-grandpa got parcels of land from the government. But he also did some construction and other kinds of work too because I know of some of his trips up to Canada and some of the things that he did. My grandmother, the one that came out in a covered wagon, eventually was the secretary to the mayor, which was a woman, which was extremely unusual in this country. Q: Oh boy. CROCKER: That the mayor was a woman, especially if you knew anything about the history of Seattle. The whole history of Seattle’s in a book called “Sons of Prophet,” about the Dennys and the Eslers and all these people who formed it and it’s mainly all about prostitution houses and all kinds of wild things and money going to Washington to bribe to get the railroad to go to Seattle. You know, all kinds. So my family goes back into that history of development of the town. My dad’s father, Reuben’s son, he came out, made a lot of money and was the state land assessor for Washington State, and he was a great one to talk to. I learned a lot from my grandparents. Q: Now your father, was he was born in Seattle? CROCKER: Born in Seattle. Q: What did he do? CROCKER: Well he moved to Spokane where his father lived and he and his brother mined gold in northern Idaho. Later my dad built log lodges and cabins on by grandfather's property on Lake Coeur d’Alene in Idaho, my favorite place as a child and my family has seen the remaining cabin in recent years. My father was an interesting guy, 2 born out of his time, basically, but mainly was a salesman, cars, appliances, furniture, that sort of thing, looking for different jobs. But he went into the Navy for World War II. I don’t know if this will interest you, but when my daughter had her national board meeting in Spokane (she runs a foundation to promote rural telecommunications), I got to go back to the Davenport Hotel, which is one of these beautiful, old wealthy hotels. When I walked in I had this déjà vu because in 1945, the end of the war, I was in that hotel. My dad was in his sailor uniform with all his sailor buddies and my grandpa was there and they all had these monstrous cigars and there was confetti in the streets and parades. This was an important, early childhood impression I remember vividly, even at five. Q: It just came right back. CROCKER: Yes, I could smell the leather-chairs and the cigar smoke. So that was a lot of fun to go back. After the war, we moved to Kellogg, Idaho, then to the Tri- Cities in Washington, and finally to Seattle. Our first house was near where Seattle was founded. Dad was a salesman, mostly furniture and appliances, and I worked in the stores with him until after college. Q: Let’s talk a bit about Spokane. What sort of a role does Spokane play when you were a kid? I mean, in Washington. CROCKER: Well, it was a great town. It’s kind of a provincial town, you know. It was wheat farmers and all and it’s a little more developed now but it was a great place to live. My Uncle Tony was there, my Aunt Grace and all these relatives from my mother’s side. My mother was born in Illinois, but grew up in Spokane where we had these great family gatherings in the park. That was really great fun; it was nice. And another thing, whether it gets you or not but we used to ride on a Ferris wheel. When I went back, this was just last year when I went to Spokane and I had my two year old grandson, we go down to the park where the World Fair site was. They had renovated the Ferris wheel and there was my horse, my black horse, and I got to sit on the horse with my grandson. Q: Well now, I always think of Washington, the state of Washington, as sort of being divided between Seattle, a coastal city and a sort of a broader outlook and Spokane, being the inland, old fashion city. One was sort of a west coast place, the other was sort of a Midwestern place. CROCKER: Two different worlds. It’s like Midwestern with plateaus and rock outcroppings and pine trees but they’re only like 15- 20 minutes from the Rocky Mountains. And Kellogg, Idaho, where I lived is about 45 minutes east, is a little old mining town up in the mountains. Q: What about, let’s take your mother’s side. Where do they come from and what do you know about them? 3 CROCKER: Spokane. Q: Before that? CROCKER: Illinois, Clark Clifford was her cousin. Remember, Secretary of Defense. Her family were Scottish, McAdams clan. Her mother and father were not wealthy, but sophisticated and beautifully dressed. Her two brothers served in the Army in World War II. A very good American family. My dad’s is quite different in contrast. You know, his brother was a mining expert, a brilliant man. He had four sisters; they’re all kind of very boisterous and brilliant, well educated, but I think very different from my mom’s family. Q: What about on your father’s side then your mother’s side, education? CROCKER: Okay. My mother didn’t go to college. It turns out in the end she was very, very smart and very bright. I mean, she remembered all her Latin. She ended up working in a hospital and we always said we realized a little too late in life how smart she was. Q: Yes. CROCKER: But she never got to college, while her brothers did. Q: Well this was very much the pattern. CROCKER: Yes. And her brother became the office manager at Weyerhaeuser timber company. The other brother moved to New York after the war. Mom never drove a car, just like her mom. Both were always involved in the Methodist church. I had three brothers. Our life was always fun. I mean, we didn’t have a lot of money most of the time but we had great fun, adventures, a lot of adventures. Q: What did your father do during World War II? CROCKER: He was in the Navy. He was a seaman first class. Mainly worked on airplanes. He went all the way out to Florida, which he hated, and then got shipped all the way back to Spokane and worked, I don’t know, a half hour or so from our house but he couldn’t come home all the time.