The Mechanicville Zoning/Planning Board held a meeting at the Mechanicville Public Works Building, 4 Industrial Park Road, Mechanicville, New York on November 12, 2019. Frank Scirocco opened the meeting at 7:00 P.M. The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Robert Chase.
Roll Call: Frank Scirocco - present Robert Chase - present Richard Delaney - present Keith Johnson - present Ed Morcone - present Raymond Martin - absent Sam Carabis - present
Frank Scirocco: We have four (4) sets of minutes, has everyone had a chance to go over them? Satisfied? I am not going to go one by one, can I have a motion to accept all four, April, May, August, and September.
Motion By: Robert Chase Seconded By: Sam Carabis
Richard Delaney: I don’t know if this is the time but I had a question about the status of one of the meetings. Is this the time to ask that?
Frank Scirocco: You can ask. I don’t have a copy of them in front of me. Which month are we talking about?
Richard Delaney: The August meeting.
Frank Scirocco: We can abstain from the August meeting if you would like.
Richard Delaney: Ok, I just want to clarify a couple of things.
Bob Chase: I will make my motion for everything but the August meeting.
Frank Scirocco: The motion is to approve April, May and September.
Ayes: 6 Nays: 0
Frank Scirocco: We can do August at the next meeting. We will be reviewing a sketch plan for a site plan review for Steve Dumas, 2459 River Road, to build a
1 multi-family residence on Grove Street. Let me just say this is a sketch plan review and no action will be taken tonight, we are just here to get as much information as we can to move to the second phase. I just want to acknowledge it was published in the Daily Gazette, notice was given, and neighbors were all notified by mail. Was everyone satisfied with the letter that was sent? Here is a copy of all the notifications for you to see.
Bob Chase: We have that in our packets.
Frank Scirocco: Very nice. Steve Dumas, are you here?
Steve Dumas: Yes sir.
Frank Scirocco: Would you like to take the hot seat? We are in the fact finding stage of the site plan review. We need to know what you would like to do and then I am sure the board will have a lot of questions. Let me get your plan out. We know you want to put a four (4) family up correct?
Steve Dumas: Yes
Frank Scirocco: So tell us what is going on?
Steve Dumas: So what happened was me, John, and Nan DiSiena have come to an agreement on a price and went into a contract contingent on if I can do a three (3) or four (4) family. I would prefer to do a four (4) family; so what I did was I found some plans for smaller units. This is basically the facade and everything. It is 27 x 67, is the building itself, I think the setbacks are 15 feet or 10 feet I am not sure, I am looking for a 5 foot set off front to back then left to right I do the fifteen which would still leave room for some parking. On Grove Street I have two building over there that have off street parking but I know a lot of the houses have on street parking that cause an issue. I am thinking if mine is allowed I would have a parking lot where I could get six (6) or seven (7) spots in there. Like you said this is just a sketch, if you guys do decide to let us do that then I would have an architect come in and he would have the sizes and everything what is allowed and he can draw it up and meet whatever you guys want. That is pretty much it from my stand point.
Frank Scirocco: The second phase of this, according to our code, would require drawings, elevations, drainage, run-off, traffic, and things like that. We are not
2 saying you need to go out and get a traffic study done; you just need to tell us what is going on with the cars. We would need to see heights. What else?
Richard Delaney: Maybe a report from the fire department or at least to see what their views are for the access to the building.
Steve Dumas: From my understanding there was a two (2) family there one time that burnt down. I don’t think that will help my cause or anything, but I still need to do all that, this is sounding like it is getting real expensive and I don’t want to start laying out several thousands of dollars.
Richard Delaney: You are proposing a four (4) unit as opposed to a two (2) unit.
Steve Dumas: I understand I don’t want to start getting all of these tests.
Frank Scirocco: In the application, I am sure you read it, where the onsite sanitation water supply facilities, field survey, and boundary lines, we would need to see all of that when we get to that phase. The question now is, gentleman, whether it is a three (3) or four (4) family, you are going to need a special permit, and you will need an area variance (which is allowed). I am just going to try and figure out the best way to go about this and what is beneficial to the City as well as the applicant.
Steve Dumas: Is there a one stop shop where someone could do all of this.
Frank Scirocco: I can ask the Fire Inspector to be at the next meeting to give his opinion on what the situation would be. That is something he would have to do. Survey the boundary lines, naturally you would survey the property, you would have to show us that the drainage and water supply is sufficient. Because you are within five hundred (500) feet of a state highway, tonight Gina and I will send an application to the County and they will review and come back with whether or not it will have an impact on the County, which I can’t see that being the case, but because it is within five hundred (500) feet it has to go to them for their review. We can’t act on that until we have a report from them. When do they meet?
Gina Kenyon: I will need to get him to them tomorrow and they will be meeting the following week and that would be fine.
Frank Scirocco: We will have that report for the next meeting. Ed, go ahead.
3 Ed Morcone: How many parking will be required for a four (4) family?
Keith Johnson: It is 1 ½ per unit.
Richard Delaney: You said eight (8) on your application.
Steve Dumas: I believe so, if we get to that point I will have someone do that. I think they were saying something like eight (8) feet by eighteen (18) feet for a spot. I am not sure if that is possible, I am not sure how that works.
Sam Carabis: Nine (9) by eighteen (18) is required. Basically you did mention eight (8) cars and I think the size of the lot is inadequate for that so you may have to go by the 1 ½ per unit. You are going to need a site plan because even getting six (6) cars on the site plan is going to be a little tight there so you are going to have to lay them out and see if you can get them in there. The lot, one section is 34 feet the other section is 100 feet so is there actually two different lots there?
Steve Dumas: Yes, there are two lots and I will have them combined
Sam Carabis: Do you own both lots?
Steve Dumas: Yes, I am under contract for both of them and I am going to combine them to make one.
Sam Carabis: The big thing here is the setbacks, the five (5) feet. The thing is you have to get a sidewalk in there, you have to get an entrance in there and so forth, and that might present a little bit of a problem getting it all in there. As far as the parking lot there, you have to look at snow removal too. You have to have someplace to put the snow. Then there is garbage, you have to have garbage storage. The thing is too we don’t get too many four (4) units, this is one building lot here but you are extending it, I think you have 134 feet and a normal building lot is 50 x 100 which means what you have here is 40 x 100 so you are a little tight in there and I don’t know what you can do as far as the house goes. There is a sheet here for the final inspection of what you are going to need; I think if you get this you will address most of the questions if not all of them. That’s all for now I think Frank.
Frank Scirocco: Keith, welcome back.
Keith Johnson: Thank you. Is the building 27 x 67 or 30 x 80?
4 Steve Dumas: Originally I was planning on going that size but then I found these drawing that are 27 x 67.
Keith Johnson: It is a one (1) story four (4) unit?
Steve Dumas: It will be a two (2) stories each unit will be 800 square feet.
Keith Johnson: I see they will be four (4) wide.
Steve Dumas: They are about 800 square feet per unit.
Keith Johnson: I think you are going to have a tough time fitting the parking spots. I just did the math quick and you are going to have a tough time fitting that in.
Steve Dumas: To get six (6) in there?
Keith Johnson: 6 x 8 is 48 I have 57 by the time you put the sidewalk and stuff in, it will be tight, and it will be close. I was just wondering what size it was and he answered it.
Frank Scirocco: Robert?
Bob Chase: I am still looking at that parking area, even though there is proposed for four (4) and you are required to have 1 ½ spaces that is antiquity I think. You are going to need at least two (2) spaces per each apartment.
Keith Johnson: I think the rule is 1 ½.
Frank Scirocco: The code is 1 ½.
Bob Chase: What is he going to do with the other cars?
Sam Carabis: Park them on the street.
Keith Johnson: We can only hold them to 1 ½.
Bob Chase: Cypress Street is pretty narrow and so is Grove Street. Is this one (1) building or two (2) buildings?
5 Steve Dumas: One (1).
Frank Scirocco: It is one (1) building.
Bob Chase: What would the revised setbacks be?
Frank Scirocco: I think it is twenty-five (25) feet in front.
Gina Kenyon: The front is twenty (2) feet and the rear is fifteen (15) feet.
Keith Johnson: Is the front on Cypress?
Steve Dumas: Yes.
Frank Scirocco: Regardless what he puts there he would need an area variance. I am curious, are there buildings next to it.
Steve Dumas: There is one (1) big brick building on the lot to the left.
Bob Chase: How far away is it?
Steve Dumas: They have a driveway between that building and the lot that I would be purchasing.
Frank Scirocco: What about anything next door.
Steve Dumas: Behind it there is a building.
Frank Scirocco: Does anyone up there have 20 feet frontage?
Steve Dumas: It is Cypress; I don’t know why they call it 11-13 Grove. There is a little bit on Grove but the rest of the lot goes right up Cypress.
Keith Johnson: There is a white house behind you right?
Steve Dumas: I don’t know if that is a two (2) or four (4) unit.
Frank Scirocco: My question is how many houses on that street or on that block have a 20 foot setback?
6 Steve Dumas: I don’t think any of them but I am not sure I didn’t tape measure but that brick one is right to the sidewalk and even that white one behind it is pretty close to the sidewalk.
Frank Scirocco: In the past, I know the zoning board and this board have approved equal distance to the houses that are nearby next door to keep the streamline.
Steve Dumas: The parking lot would be where that house is on Grove and the building would be towards that brick unit.
Richard Delaney: The brick unit on Cypress?
Steve Dumas: Yes.
Richard Delaney: It is like three (3) stories or two (2)?
Bob Chase: I am still trying to figure out you get 134 feet from that existing building to Grove Street. There has got to be a building to the left where it says 1 Cypress Street.
Steve Dumas: That is the brick building.
Bob Chase: That is the brick building and it is 140 feet from there to Grove Street.
Steve Dumas: It is deceiving, I got that from John and then went over and measured it.
Keith Johnson: You didn’t find any pins or anything right?
Steve Dumas: No, I didn’t go crazy because it is so overgrown. I will have it surveyed.
Bob Chase: We will need to see a survey before we can take any action.
Frank Scirocco: We are not taking any action tonight.
Bob Chase: I know I am just saying.
7 Frank Scirocco: That is part of the application.
Sam Carabis: I have a question.
Frank Scirocco: I am going to let Richard because he hasn’t had a chance but you will get to ask yours.
Richard Delaney: So your lot is 134 feet by 40 feet which is 5360 square feet. Now for new construction, I looked at the code for a single family unit is requires 5000 square feet, for a four (4) family dwelling it is 5000 square feet required plus 2500 square feet for each additional dwelling which brings the total up to 12,500 feet. That would be without a variance, the code calls for a lot of space there. For open space you would need, again the code calls for, 750 square feet of open space so I guess the question I would have would be, and the open space is for informal recreation or play area for children?
Steve Dumas: Yes
Richard Delaney: Not just green space but open space. Where did you intend to have your open space?
Steve Dumas: That is why I am here to see if this is feasible, the lot is not very big and I am trying to maximize what I can get out of the lot.
Richard Delaney: So you have a parking area. How many feet would you have between the building and your parking area? Would you have any open space there between that?
Steve Dumas: We could maybe do a little bit but I am trying to make as much parking area as possible.
Richard Delaney: Would you have a barrier or something, some kind of, I assume you will have a paved lot there and so would you have a grassy area between the building and the lot?
Steve Dumas: There might be, I would think behind the unit we would have some possibly.
Richard Delaney: Behind the unit you five (5) feet and again for a multi-family building the minimum frontage is twenty (20) feet, the rear is actually fifteen (15)
8 feet for a multi-family building not five (5) and the sides would be the sum of the two (2) sides is fourteen (14) feet.
Steve Dumas: So seven (7) feet on the sides, I can slide it further to the left and have a little more parking.
Richard Delaney: What did you say the height of the building is?
Steve Dumas: It would be two (2) stories.
Richard Delaney: You would have the five (5) feet from the rear of the building to the end of the lot. What were your ideas for your rear exits, I assume you have rear exits from the house.
Steve Dumas: Just a regular back door.
Richard Delaney: Were you thinking a barrier between the lot and the adjacent lot on Grove Street is there a fence?
Steve Dumas: I don’t think there is a fence there.
Richard Delaney: It is just a big overgrown lot there now.
Steve Dumas: Everything is just overgrown there now.
Richard Delaney: So it is hard to tell what it will look like.
Steve Dumas: Right.
Richard Delaney: Between your proposed building and 1 Cypress Street is ten (10) feet. So you are abutting the property at 1 Cypress Street.
Steve Dumas: Yes.
Richard Delaney: So your parking area would be what square feet?
Steve Dumas: It would probably two-hundred (200) square feet depending how far I could push the building to the left.
9 Richard Delaney: Again you would have to show us run-off, drainage, and we would have to have a complete site plan and include everything that is included in the application. You said they are two (2) bedroom houses.
Steve Dumas: Yes the second page of that has the layout but yes they are two (2) bedrooms each.
Richard Delaney: And the square footage of each is?
Steve Dumas: They are around eight hundred square feet for each apartment.
Richard Delaney: I guess for now that is all I have.
Frank Scirocco: This application will require a special permit and an area variance. The area variance, the board is charged with looking at a couple of things. Whether the variance is substantial and this four (4) unit looks like it might be substantial. In granting the board has to grant the minimum variance necessary to complete the project and still protect and preserve the character of the neighborhood; that is what the code/ the law says. So I have to look at that with the four (4) family. This is a complicated application because it is a site plan review and it is a special permit because it is a multi-family, anything over two (2) needs a special permit, but the special permit needs an area variance because the area is so small. We have to look at any adverse effects that this particular drawing might have on the neighborhood.
Sam Carabis: Is the brick house next door three (3) stories?
Steve Dumas: Yes.
Sam Carabis: Do you know how many families?
Six.
Richard Delaney: I notice there is a multi-family on the other side of Grove Street, do you know how many units are in that house.
Steve Dumas: Maybe four (4)?
Frank Scirocco: Any more questions?
10 Ed Morcone: If you are chopping thirteen (13) feet off the building you have a little play for parking.
Steve Dumas: Yes and I didn’t realize it has to be seven (7) feet. I know I am asking a lot and it is hinging on me buying that lot.
Keith Johnson: On the back you have five (5) feet from the border and by the time you put a deck, I believe you have to have a deck I don’t believe you can step onto stairs so you will lose your five (5) feet there.
Steve Dumas: It won’t be too high it will be a normal foot or foot and a half from the ground.
Keith Johnson: I mean from the border. I believe you have to walk out onto a deck not onto a stair. So what I am saying is by the time you put a deck or whatever.
Richard Delaney: I don’t think you need a deck do you?
Keith Johnson: I just thought you couldn’t walk out onto a top stair. I could be wrong on that.
Jim Herkel: You are allowed one (1) step down and it has to be the width of the door when it swings open.
Richard Delaney: I was thinking of the house that is across from the dutch gap on Main Street, yours would be similar, I don’t know when that was approved.
Bob Chase: That would have been in 1982.
Sam Carabis: Is it going to look like this.
Steve Dumas: That is the plan I am going for.
Sam Carabis: It doesn’t look too bad.
Frank Scirocco: It doesn’t look too bad it is just a question of it will fit. If it is too big for the lot and what kind of affect it is going to have on the neighborhood.
11 Keith Johnson: You said you were thinking between a three (3) and a four (4) if it was a three (3) what were the dimensions on the three (3).
Steve Dumas: It would be the same thing I would probably just take one apartment off the end so that would shorten everything up.
Keith Johnson: It would still be the five (5).
Bob Chase: You are back to the 27 x67.
Steve Dumas: But we took one apartment off that would gain a parking area.
Keith Johnson: Then you would need less spots too.
Bob Chase: Could you get a nice return on your investment on a two (2) family house.
Steve Dumas: What are the rules of a two (2) family house? Is it still the same setbacks for a two (2) as opposed to a four (4)?
Frank Scirocco: You would need an area variance for a two (2) family and still requires a site plan but it doesn’t need a special use permit or County approval. That is something you might want to think about.
Keith Johnson: What is the County approval three (3) and above?
Frank Scirocco: Yes, single and two (2) family are not subject to County review. Let’s close this part of the meeting and hear from the neighbors and see how they feel. If anyone has anything they would to say we would like to know who you are, where you live, whether it is in favor or not in favor.
I am Michelle Duell I live on 18 Grove Street and I am one of the only single family in that block over there, I am surrounded by multi-family homes. I took pictures the other morning of what parking is on Cypress and Grove, that is at six o’clock (6:00) in the morning. You can’t get a firetruck down through there, it won’t happen. During the day there is a business on the corner of Cypress and Central Avenue, they bring tractor trailers down to load their cars, they are up on my sidewalk to make the turn, people have to move their cars if they are home because their cars are being hit. Ambulances as they come down to rescue somebody have side swiped peoples cars, there is no space here. I am sorry I
12 don’t push you away, it is a horrible lot right now, it is wooded, it looks like hell but you know what my quality of life being the only single-family home there has been disrupted in the past twenty (20) years. When we first bought in our neighborhood, it was mainly owner occupied apartment, two (2) families, over the year that has changed. Especially down on the other side of Grove Street, people are speeding up and down the road, there is a nice aroma of marijuana when you leave, and we have had a murder at the end of our street because there was pot and drugs. It is not just Grove Street and Cypress Street, behind me on Greenwood Street is nothing but two (2) family homes, three (3) family homes, four (4) family homes. I am surrounded and there is constantly people moving in and out, parties, yelling and screaming, and police. So, it will impact my life and my family’s lives and the value of my home as well. When they did the reassessment back in 2016 I was informed my home was worth more because it was a single family, the two (2) family and multi-family homes are not worth as much. That drags the value of our neighborhood and especially for me. They just sold a single family home on Grove Street and it went for like $50,000 that is less that what I bought my house for it is a huge impact. I am not for a four (4) family home. I am not; I figured I would just voice my opinion.
Frank Scirocco: Anyone else.
I am Ed Burgoyne and I live at 21 Grove I oppose a four (4) family house on that unit, there is not enough room. Cypress Street hardly even gets plowed in the winter time; we don’t need extra cars and all kinds of other congestion in that area.
I am Jackie Burgoyne 19 Grove I am on the other side of Cypress on the corner. People are now parking on my sidewalk almost on my grass because there is nowhere to park. The City does not take care of Cypress Street in the winter, they barely plow us. Cars are all over, I leave and if I try to come back somebody is in my spot. A car and a half I mean be serious, everybody has at least two (2) cars, husbands and wives and if they come with a child now you have three (3) cars. Where is he going to park, four (4) units, and now three (3) cars? He could say he is getting six (6) in there, where are the rest of the cars going to go. Like Michelle said if we have an emergency on Grove Street you can barely make it. A fire truck cannot make it on Cypress, they try to park on both sides of Cypress, I do have a driveway, my sister tries to get out, and there are cars right behind her. Sometimes they are like all the way up the street and then they are all the way on my sidewalk, I come home at night and if I don’t hit anything I make it through here. If we get four (4) more families on this street there is just no way. We have the church there and they constantly have things going on, there is all kinds of traffic. We are just a
13 little street and even that repossessing cars, they are on my sidewalk, they almost knocked down the stop sign on the corner. I don’t know what they are going to do on Cypress if we have four (4) more families there. Obviously you know I am against a multi-unit on that corner.
Frank Scirocco: Anyone else.
Joe Gagliardi, I live on 20 Grove Street, I have been here sixty-two (62) years, it is the same thing everyone is saying there is no parking. I have been in the fire department, Bob knows, there is no way a fire truck can come up that street or on any side street, I drove firetrucks. It just can’t happen to have a multi-family house go in there because they bring guest in. Now you are talking three (3) or four (4) cars per unit. I couldn’t get a fourteen (14) foot box truck for my business down my street sometimes. The car dealer that hauls cars, brand new sidewalk, City wanted brand new sidewalks, you have tractor trailers coming on our sidewalks, is the City going to come pay to replace them. No they are not, right, we are responsible for them. What do we do? Nothing against you personally, you put more cars in there how are you going to get around now. The big problem is parking, everyone has two (2) cars, I don’t care where you look in the City everyone has two (2) cars at least minimum if not three (3). Where are you going to put them that is the issue? I would of bought it and put a parking lot and charged everybody on Grove Street.
The white building behind that, they have got to have a least six (6) cars for two (2) units and they are parked all through Grove Street from Cypress to Saratoga Avenue is just all full of cars.
Frank Scirocco: Anyone else.
I don’t live directly in that neighborhood, excuse me Marylou Anatriello, Gilbert Street, but I live around the corner, it has been my neighborhood for my whole life, I am not going to give you my age. I support these people 100% we are the people who have chosen to live in Mechanicville to perhaps in the homes that our parents owned, we have been here since the beginning of time. We abide by the rules of the community, we try and keep our properties nice, but with the influx of all of these rental units and some absentee landlords what we have had to swallow hard and accept hasn’t been very pleasant. That lot, or those two (2) lots, I believe at least the first one is a Grove Street address, that was Mrs. Riggerio’s home, Joe Riggerio ran Modern Lumber, it was his mother’s home and that house faced this way. I was there in the neighborhood that night that house burnt down
14 and you could hardly get a firetruck or ambulance in there and I remember the fire chief talking to me, because my husband was one of the fireman then, about the danger of all the wires overheard with them trying to get the vehicle in with the ladders going up and the wires falling down on the firemen perhaps. It was a very precarious situation to fight that fire. Then, I also remember, living with that building burned on that corner with no code being forced, no action being taken by the City, how many years Michelle were we able to just look at that and enjoy and the smell of the burned out building as you walked around the neighborhood. Eventually they did take the building down and then all of a sudden it became a rainforest or whatever it was turned into. These people have legitimate concerns, if somebody said they want to buy the lot and I am building a house that I am going to live in, it is going to be a one (1) family house and I am going to park my car on the side of it I would have no problems with it. But for somebody have a goal to put in four (4) units in this little tiny area, backed up against all these other buildings, and incidentally if you think about it, that brick building, that 1 Cypress Building has the number one because that was the first house that was on Cypress. It didn’t begin over here, that house went that way and that apartment that was referenced on South Main Street and Underwood Avenue that changed the structure and the appearance of the neighborhood. I don’t know how that got by because the house is facing onto Underwood Avenue when all the houses in the neighborhood, and there are some pretty darn nice looking houses, all of those houses face this way and that was something that did not conform to the codes. I have been before the planning board and the zoning board and the boards before citing that I invested in Mechanicville, these people did, chose to stay here because it is our home, and then for somebody to have a whim that they are going to, and I don’t mean you sir in particular, or you solely, it seems that it is the trend in our community, I am going to buy that lot, property is cheap in Mechanicville, I am going to build X number of apartments, and I am going to rent them out and I might never see those people until they just pay me the rent. I have that going on my street.
Frank Scirocco: Marylou, thank you.
Marylou Anatriello: I do support them, is there a time limit?
Frank Scirocco: Three (3) minutes, but I let you go over.
Marylou Anatriello: I would just like to be made aware of it because I am not just speaking just to take up time I am just making it heartfelt.
15 Frank Scirocco: I understand.
Marylou Anatriello: This is a major problem in our community, major
Frank Scirocco: Yes sir.
My name is Greg Borowiec and I own 1 Cypress Street, just like people are saying there are a lot of cars on Cypress, and Grove Street is getting worse. I have done a lot of work to that building to make it nicer. My concern is that this property being so close to mine, it is going to be right up against it, it will decrease my value and the tenants won’t want to live there as much because it is so close. My tenant actually used to take care of that rainforest, he moved out now it is just gone to whatever, it is horrible to look at. Obviously if something was there it would be better but four (4) family that is a lot.
Frank Scirocco: Thank you, anyone else
David Hicks of 241 First Avenue : Problem is horse and carriage streets and they are parking cars on it. The city was originally designed for horse and carriages, narrow streets, no problem, but now with the multiple cars.
Frank Scirocco: Got it. Anyone else? I will close that part of the hearing, what I will say is the board and I am going to read this verbatim. When granting a variance article C says “ the board shall grant the minimum variance that it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time, (and this is where it is important) preserve and protect the character of the neighborhood and the health, safety, and welfare of the community” With that being said, I might be out of line, but, maybe you should consider a two (2) unit if a single family not feasible, two (2) unit is allowed without a special permit. That is just my own opinion. I don’t see how I could personally move forward with a four (4) unit.
Steve Dumas: No, after hearing all of this, I get it. I don’t want to be the bad guy on the block.
Frank Scirocco: No, you are not a bad guy.
Steve Dumas: So, a two (2) family, would I still have to meet all the setbacks?
Frank Scirocco: The only thing you wouldn’t have to do is we wouldn’t have to submit it to the County, but you still have to go through site plan review, same
16 thing but we are not looking at such a large structure and a large area variance. Where this one would be really substantial. I can’t speak for the rest of the board, only for myself that would be my recommendation.
Steve Dumas: I guess I will have to go back to the drawing board a little bit here.
Richard Delaney: I think a two (2) family unit might be more feasible, I would want to see a complete plan though and I would want to hear from the neighbors too.
Frank Scirocco: A two (2) family is something that is allowed by code.
Sam Carabis: If you were to go to a two (2) family, would you still buy that additional thirty-five (35) feet.
Steve Dumas: Yes, I want it all. I need another project. A two (2) family might work. Would I have to send the letters out again and everything.
Bob Chase: I want to see the plans for a two (2) family house, I would be in favor of that but not a four (4) family.
Sam Carabis: I would go for a two (2) family also.
Frank Scirocco: Well we have heard everyone and we have taken everything into… we see where think a four (4) family might not be the way to go, or even a three (3). If you would like to come back for the second phase with drawings for a two (2) we would definitely listen to it.
Steve Dumas: Now does that need all the drainage stuff and a set of drawings
Frank Scirocco: We would need all that stuff.
Steve Dumas: How long do I have to get for the next meeting.
Gina Kenyon: The next meeting is December 10th.
Steve Dumas: How long before hand do you need to know.
Gina Kenyon: Ten (10) days.
17 Steve Dumas: Ten (10) days, ok.
Gina Kenyon: Now would he have to send notifications all the neighbors again?
Frank Scirocco: Yes, within five hundred (500) feet.
Gina Kenyon: Yes, there was a lot of them, there was twenty-five (25).
Frank Scirocco: The neighbors would have to be notified.
Keith Johnson: He doesn’t have to come to the meeting on the tenth (10th) there isn’t a certain time he has to get it done by.
Frank Scirocco: No.
Bob Chase: He can come in January, February.
Frank Scirocco: Yes the meeting is the second (2nd ) Tuesday of every month if we have an application. So if you wanted to wait till then to have all your stuff together, that is fine. I think it is the board’s recommendation that it is either a single or a two (2).
Steve Dumas: Yeah a four (4) is not going to happen.
Richard Delaney: I would want to see a site plan that included everything that was needed; open space, green space, landscaping, everything.
Frank Scirocco: The application is pretty specific for site plan; you have a copy of it.
Steve Dumas: Yeah.
Frank Scirocco: As long as, we don’t need ten (10) copies of drawings.
Gina Kenyon: Yes we do.
Richard Delaney: We each need one, each of us need them.
Frank Scirocco: There are only seven (7) of us; we don’t need ten (10).
18 Gina Kenyon: There are seven (7) of you, I need one (1), the building inspector needs one (1), and the attorney needs one (1).
Frank Scirocco: There are some things we would be able to wave.
Richard Delaney: I would want to see all of the dimensions, the parking dimensions.
Gina Kenyon: I just have a question for my clarification, I thought if we did a sketch plan on a meeting and we decided we were going to come back with drawings, they didn‘t need to notify the neighbors again because it is the next phase. So if he is telling you he is going to come back to the December meeting.
Frank Scirocco: But, it is a new application, this application was for a four (4) family.
Gina Kenyon: So we will just do a whole new application, it needs a whole new site plan and area variance application.
Sam Carabis: The application, I think you sent out notifying twenty-five (25) neighbors that is quite a lot.
Joe Gagliardi: Can I ask a question, does the land owners or the tenants.
Frank Scirocco: Land owners.
Joe Gagliardi: The think is there is a lot of absentee owners.
Frank Scirocco: Yes, that is the law, we don’t make the laws.
Joe Gagliardi: I know, that is kinda, I live there, I own my own property and there are other people that live there that don’t own the property that have two (2) cars a piece. That is the issue, the parking, and fire and ambulance rescue.
Frank Scirocco: That is why it is posted in the newspaper also.
Joe Gagliardi: Are they able to come and speak also that is the question.
Keith Johnson: Anyone can.
19 Frank Scirocco: It is a public hearing.
Joe Gagliardi: This is the first time I have been here and it is right there on my corner.
Frank Scirocco: Anyone can come and speak; this is the most people we have had at a meeting since Fred the butcher.
Joe Gagliardi: I was just curious because I have never been to one, so I was curious. The tenants are the ones that are there the landlords could be in Chicago.
Frank Scirocco: By law they only have to notify the owners of the property. State legislature can change that, they can change the one and a half (1 ½) car parking but they haven’t done that.
Joe Gagliardi: That is crazy too now a days.
Frank Scirocco: We have to follow the laws, we can’t impose something more than the State requires.
Greg Borowiec: If you were decided to move forward with a four (4) unit, and we would be notified, is there an agenda that comes out for the meeting so we know. It this is going to continue going forward we will be notified or are we squashing it now.
Steve Dumas: I think we are pretty squashed.
Frank Scirocco: It is going to be a new application. What happens is, he will file a new application for whatever, I mean I can’t tell you what he is going to file for, whether it is two (2) family or single family, or three (3) family. A notice will go back out and I don’t know how you heard about it, if you are not the owners of the property but however you heard is how you will hear, we are meeting here December 10th and then again, it is the second Tuesday of every month if we have an application. So, if you don’t see anything in the paper you can call the building department and see if there is a hearing scheduled that night and what’s going to be on it, Gina will be happy to tell you.
Gina Kenyon: There is an application for December 10th so it will be in the paper what is going to be heard at that meeting.
20 Keith Johnson: Is it on the website?
Gina Kenyon: Yes and I think Kim puts it on hers.
Kim Dunn: I put it on my facebook, I put a sign on the door, it goes in The Express.
Frank Scirocco: You can always email me for dates and whether or not there is an application or not. Gina has my email. We don’t generally field all of these questions once the public hearing is closed but we are a small town.
Marylou Anatriello: For this meeting, what is the person required to come in with?
Frank Scirocco: It is a sketch review, just something what he wants to do.
Marylou Anatriello: Does he fill out an application?
Frank Scirocco: He has to fill out all of the applications for what he is looking for. In this case it was special permit, site plan, and area variance.
Marylou Anatriello: Plans for the building aren’t required until when?
Frank Scirocco: The second hearing if he gets that far. Then they have to come in , the application is specific on what it requires. If the board finds it doesn’t have enough information you have to come back for the third meeting until you have enough. And when the board feels that they have enough information, that you have provided everything that can be provided they can take action at that meeting. It could be at the next hearing whether it be December or January, they can take action at that hearing, you don’t have to wait any further. I went through a process in the City of Saratoga which is probable the strictest anywhere, we built a four million dollar ($4,000,000) building and we went through planning in one (1) night. Our engineers had everything and that is the first time that has happened in that City, but they were well prepared. They presented everything that the board needed to see and we got our approvals in one (1) night. That is rare. Twice is not rare, if you have everything you need the board can take action. A third meeting is not always required, I know the application says third and final site plan review, that is up to the board.
21 Richard Delaney: It would be good if you had professionally drawn plans, is that something you could do.
Steve Dumas: That is what I was going to do but I just wanted to see how this was going to go. I didn’t want to start spending two (2) or three (3) thousand dollars on real plans and then I come in here and not get approved.
Frank Scirocco: Aren’t you glad you came for the sketch plan?
Steve Dumas: Yes and I don’t want to get anyone upset, I just wanted to see what it was all about. I was looking for a new project but maybe this isn’t the one for me. Maybe I will go build a shed.
Ed Morcone: This meeting does not force him not to come back to us with a modified building plan.
Frank Scirocco: He has to file a new application.
Ed Morcone: Right, but if he still had it in his head to do a four (4) and maybe make it smaller or something.
Keith Johnson: He wouldn’t need a new application if he came back with a four (4) would he?
Frank Scirocco: No.
Ed Morcone: That gentleman was asking how we would know if he is coming in with four (4)? He might come in with four (4) and say I am going to make seven hundred (700) square feet instead of eight hundred (800) square feet, the building is going to be smaller, the setbacks are going to be fine, I got parking. Your problem is width not length, I mean just so.
Frank Scirocco: I don’t know how small he could squeeze it, or have the building with the same parking problem.
Ed Morcone: I am just playing devil’s advocate because if he did that I don’t want anyone come in a scream that something went on behind somebodies back. Keep abreast of what is going on.
22 Frank Scirocco: Like I said the meetings are always posted and you can always call, or email me, we like to keep everybody informed and we always have.
Greg Borowiec: You guys stopped posting the meeting minutes online?
Gina Kenyon: The reason these haven’t been posted is because they have not been approved. We just approved three (3) of them so then the three (3) that got approved tonight I could post tomorrow. But, we can’t do it until they are approved.
Frank Scirocco: So, if there is nothing else we can adjourn this until we have a new application. Is there a motion to approve?
Meeting adjourned @ 7:57 p.m. by: Sam Carabis Seconded by: Robert Chase
All in favor: Ayes: 6 Nays: 0
Frank Scirocco: Meeting Adjourned.
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