TYNWALD COURT.

DOUGLAS, TUESDAY. APRIL 25, 1916.

Present: In the Council: His Excellency General's explanation of the alterations the Deputy-Governor (Mr Thomas Kneen), made, Deemster Callow, the Attorney-General, The Attorney-General: It so happens the Vicar-General, and the Archdeacon. that, since the House met to consider this In the Keys: The Speaker (Mr Dalrymple subject, sonic explanation is necessary to Maitland, J.P.), Messrs T. C. Kermode, bring the House face to face with the W, Quayle, W. F. Cowell, W. Christian, matter as it stands now. I shall be as 13. S. Corlett, A. Christian, J. W. Walton, little diffuse as possible; still I must E. J. Curphey, J. R. Kerruish, T. H. Cor- occupy sufficient time to enable me to put mode, W. T. Croton, It. Moughtin, R. it in an intelligible form before the Court. Clueas, J. Qualtrough, T. F. Quine, J. The,Bill, as originally passed, was a BPI Cunningham, J.! Garside, M. Curiae, and in relief of rates—the Local Authorities Col. Moore. Relief of Rates Bill. That Bill dealt exclusively with the question of loans, RELIEF OF RATES, enabling the local authorities to borrow money to relieve the rates -owing to the The Deputy-Governor: Since the last peculiar circumstances of the Island—the Tynwald Court the Committee appointed to urban districts of the Island. It will he deal with amendments suggested in the Bill, in the recollection of the House, that we called the War Emergency (Relief of Rates) passed a resolution voting £20,000 for the Bill have been in communication with the purpose of grants in relief of rates. So Imperial Government, and as a result there were two methods approved for certain amendments have been made in the giving the relief required; one was a power Bill which, 1 think. will meet with the for the local authorities to borrow money; unanimous approval of both branches of the other was grants to the local authori- the Legislature. I am taking advantage of ties for the same purpose. Well, now, the House of Keys meeting to-day to bring when the matter came before the Home the matter before the Court; because it is Office and the Treasury, they dealt with it one of great urgency, We are getting near as a whole. That was not a very un- 12th May, and maay'rating authorities are natural course to take; it seemed to be a uncertain what their action shall be with very convenient course. If the matters had regard to levying the rates for next year. been left entirely separate, we should, So, I propose now to ask the Attorney- carrying out the vote of Tynwald, have to General to explain at length to both appoint a committee to administer and branches of the Legislature the matters distribute the grants ; whilst relief would which wore in difference between this Tyn- would he given independently by the wald Court and the Imperial Government, method of borrowing by loans. As I say, and to explain how those differences have when the matter came before the Home been met. I feel sure, after the explan-. Office, they, not unnaturally, correspond- ation has been made, the House will unani- ing with the Government here, treated the mously agree to the alterations made, and matter as a whole. It was clear from the will have the Bill signed. With regard to two first letters which have already been, the particular form the matter should take, in substance, before the Court—that is the whether each Branch should wish to discuss letter from the Home Office on 7th March. the matter as a separate Bill, or whether 1916, enclosing a letter, of 28th February, we consider it to-day—that is a matter we from the Treasury to the Home Office. It can discuss later on; but, for the moment, was quite clear that the strong approval I think the most convenient course` forthe was for grants and not for loans. They House will be to have the' Attorney- felt a great difficulty about sanctioning Relief of Rates. 382 TYNWALD COURT, APRIL 25, 1r)1 G. loans, particularly because they did not matter was to treat it in one Bill; that want us to come upon available markets that was, in fact, the only practicable way that they might have to resort to them- of dealing with the subject. The two were selves. Unless I am asked I shall not so commingled, so inter-dependent—grants occupy time by quoting the letters in detail. and borrowing loans—that the only practi- I have them here, and can make reference cal way was to deal with the matter in one to them, if any member of the Court was really, in substance, the Bill which is desires it. But there they said strongly really, in substance—there were certain that if grants were made—if an effort were alterations made afterwards—but which made to collect the rates as far as possible, was really, in substance. the Bill which is and if grants were made—loans might now before this Court. We provided that possibly not be required at all, or the a Committee of Tynwald should be ap- amount required would be very much pointed to deal with the whole subject reduced. That :s the way they put it in matter of grants and of borrowing, and in the letters—I do not think any more defi- this way the two could be kept in their nitely than that—and they insisted that proper relations, and the views of the the loans should he raised exclusively in Departments in London could be met, and the Insular market. With regard to the the difficulties, which they foreshadowed, collection of the rates, remarks were made could be overcome. You will find, in look- in the Home Office letter and also that of ing at the Bill, that it is an attempt to the Treasury—I think it was in the first carry out—I hold it is a successful attempt letter that it was said—all means should be and a fair attempt to carry out that pur- exhausted before any borrowing was pose—and so far as we know, from the last resorted to, for collecting the rates ; whilst letter received from the Home Office, this the Treasury put it somewhat more mildly, Bill will meet their views, and will go and spoke of the rates being collected, or through without any further difficulty. I an attempt being made to collect theni may sat at once that one grave difficulty, without undue laxity. We had to make which was indicated by the House of Keys, the best of these expressions when dealing was the insistence that the consent of the with the Departments. Of course, if all Treasury should be obtained to each loan. means were to be exhausted to collect the rt was pointed out that, in the ordinary rates, that would have meant sueiag every- course of business, loans were raised in one, if they did not pay voluntarily, and this Island by the local authorities by vote selling them up—the very thing we wished of Tynwald, and we considered that the to avoid. We felt that would he the same powers should be given with regard effectual frustration of the very object we to the loans for the purposes of this Bill. had in view. All that was put as strongly It was pointed out most forcibly by his as it was possible for us to put it. Well, Excellency that he felt confident we would then, there were some other questions experience difficulty in carrying the Bill raised, such as about the special rate— through the branches of the Legislature if whether, where we were borrowing, that the Treasury insisted on that, and I am special rate should not be made payable by happy to be able to inform the Court that successive occupiers of the property whe.'2 the Treasury have given way. the arrears of rates accrued. We have Mr Crennell : Thank goodness for dealt with that. We have given way on something ! that point. Now this matter came before The Attorney-General: The loan is in a special committee—the same coin/nil:to.: the same position with regard to this appointed by this Court which has sat Aga .i, matter as the loans of local authorities at this morning. We had Mr Robertson, who other times with regard to other subjects. was representing the local authorities, If the members will turn to clause 7, they before us, and the matter was threshed out will see it provides a system for the ad- most fully. It was very difficult, indeed, ministration of the loans and grants. I to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, to think it will repay its to consider that a bring ourselves into conformity with the little in detail. The clause provides:— views entertained in London, and yet pro- A Committee shall' be appointed by the vide for the difficulty we were experiencing " Tynwald Court for the period until the here. The conclusion we came to was, " termination of the war, to hear and de- that the proper way to deal with the whole " tide upon applications from local

Relief of Rates, TYNWALD COURT APRIL 25, 1916. 393

"authorities for grants, or for leave to figure as they were in the year which is " borrow money for the purposes of this about to expire—that is, the year from "Act''—the dual control could deal with May, 1915, to May, 1916—the amount of the two—" in respect of any year not rate in the should remain the same. I " being earlier than the year corn- ought to say that, of course, originally " mencing the 12th day of May, 1916." re-valuation was prohibited by the Bill, as Now, Iwould just call attention to the passed. That was strongly objected to at fact there that no limit is placed on the headquarters: they insisted that people operation of the Bill to future years. I should be left in possession of their mean, the 13:11 is so drafted that if 'he natural right to seek a re-valuation if machinery in this Bill is extended in their property had gone down. The Com- future years, the machinery will he appli- mittee came to the conclusion themselves cable to those years, We have put. in quite independently that re-valuation was " not earlier than the year commencing inevitable—(hear, hear)—if justice was to 12th May, 1916." because there was a re- he done. T. know somebody said the other quisition from the Home Office that it day that we had all been guilty of a should be stated more specifically than it rate fora about that; in other words, was originally in the draft, which was the that we had turned upon our own opin- first, year to which the Bill would he ap- ions. Well, the man who cannot be plicable. " The following provisions shall guilty of a volts-fare, in circumstances " apply to any application to the Corn- such as we had to deal with, is not fit for "mittee for it grant" :— practical politics. The Committee had 117) A local authority before making applica- perfectly open minds; we hammered out tion to the Committee for a grant— the matter, considered it in every way, la) must estimate for their rate for the and, by whatever method of argument, next following financial year (herein- after called "the current year") at an we all arrived at the conclusion there was amount in Fite pourrd not less than nn practical way the matter could be that levied for the financial year from the 12111 day of :11a.y. 1915, to the dealt with, except by allowing re-valua- 12th day of :Way 1916 (such Year beim,. tion. We were borne out in that view hereinafter referred to :16 "a normal by the opinion which prevailed in the De- year"). land must procure from each • other rating titt.fliority which levies partments in London. To go back to rates in the district of such local clause 7, the local authorities must levy authority a like estimate with regard to tin) ratealde property in sueh di.3- the rate at the same rate per as in the trict, and by adding all such esti- normal year—that is the year 191546. amtes together, ascertain the total They must assume what that rate will amount of an rates in the aggregate to be levied for the current year come to in the year they are dealing muot then estimate the difference with, called the current year, and they between the total product of the rates must take the one figure from the other, for the normal year and the total and there they get at the deficiency. It product of the raters for the current year. will help, 1 think, to render the matter (21 The Committee. if satisfied with such cut i- clearer, if I refer to the illustration of mates, may make a grant to such local authority of ^ sum not greater in amount Douglas. We have estimated there that than two-thirds of such difference in aid the normal year would produce, at the old of rates for tho current year, and the Com- valuation, £52,000. At the reduced valu- mittee may also authorise such local authority to harrow, sante-et to the prm ation the amount would be £26,000. The visions of section of this Act, a sum of principle would apply to any district, money not, exceeding in amount one-th:rd of the difference before mentioned. which dealing with empty property, and the •,,.11 nu shall he applied in the same way as probability of there being more empty the grant made res aforesaid. property in the local authorities' districts Continuing, the Attorney-General said: in the current year than in former years. You see the principle upon which we You have got then, in the case of Dou- proceeded. We were obliged to create glas, a deficiency of £26,000 to deal with. machinery which would automatically The local authority has to produce this limit with regard to rates and estimate to the Committee, and say there grants and loans, so the principle is £26,000 to be raised. The Committee adopted by the Committee, which is consider the facts plated before them, worked out in technical language in the and if they are satisfied with the justice Bill, is that the rates of the local autho- of what is presented to them, they may rity should not be diminished in amount give a grant not exceeding two-thirds of —that they should remain at the same that amount; that comes, roughly, to

Relief of Rates,

384 TYNWALD COURT, APRIL 25, 1916.

£17,000 in Douglas.- Then, to make the There are certain other matters about other one-third, so as to provide for the which we had controversy with the Depart_ whole deficiency, they may borrow the ineuts, and which have now been cleared sum, which comes, roughly, to A8,000 odd, up. For instance, they objected to the and that is borrowed as a loan upon the succeeding occupier being rendered liable security of the town rates and property for the special rate. Well, we don't think generally. In that way, the whole defi- it is a matter of any practical importance ciency is provided for apparently. But whatever, as to who, as between the land- then, provision lies to be made for failure lord and. ienant, is to pay the rate, because, to collect some of the rates, even at the after all. this, under the present condition reduced valuation. There may be more of circumstances, is a matter which must vacant property, unoccupied property, be the subject of bargaining between land- than is estimated for in dealing with the lord and tenant. However, we have given half, £26,000, and there may be others way entirely, and the special rate will be who are not able to pay their rates on payable by the landlord alone.—It will be occupied property and who wish to make in respect of a charge which has been placed the rate a charge upon their property. upon the property, and that charge can In order to meet that, if the local autho- only be placed on the property at the rity approves, they are to get permission instance of the owner, and with the con- from the Committee, if the Committee sent of the local authorities. So I think thinks it advisable to do so, to raise by it will work out quite equitably. There is way of loan a sum equal to the first one, another question that was raised with the that is to say, another £8,000, and in London authorities—they seemed to- be order to repay that loan a special rate is under the impression that the same rule as plac'ed upon the property in relation to to assessing prevailed here as in England, which the rates have not been paid and and that the local authorities were the upon which -acharge has been left of the assessors. I suppose it was thought.that it amount. To that way, that deals with would never do for the local authorities to the whole subject matter. The Conunittee make their own assessment, and then for then, before allowing the second loan to be the grant out of the revenue to be regu- raised—which is called the "further loan" lated by the amount of the deficiency in the Bill, 13y way of distinguishing it— caused by the re-valuation. But they were the Committee would have to be satisfied assured by telegram on this matter, and, that reasonable efforts had hoop made to judging from the last letter from the Home collect the rates. The passage in the Bill Ofice, they seemed to be satisfied with the which deals with that matter runs as explanation, and to recognise that we have follows:— a. central board of assessment appointed by The Committee shall take into consideradon the Government, acting independently of how far the local authority and other rating authorities have, with due regard to the circum- the local authorities, and they seem to be stances and general financial condition of the satisfied with that arrangement. Then, distr:et, and of the ratepayers thereof. nettd, without. undue laxity, all retw,onattle meat,. for with regard to the famous question of the the coAection of the rates levied for the current method of raising the loan, we were quite year: and, upon consideration or the matters eroresaid. the Committee Rhall determine what in agreement, in substance, that the loan amount Cif any), as such further loan. the local should! be raised in the Isle of Man. We authority shall, subject to the provisions con- tained in section 3 of this Act, he authorised to intimated to the London authorities that borrow. we were substantially in agreement with Continuing, the Attorney-General added: them, and we asked them to suggest words Therefore, we have adopted as nearly as that would meet the case, seeing that they possible, at any rate in a modified way, the considered the original words not strong language of the Home Office and the enough. They have suggested some fur- Treasury letter. And, so far as we know, ther words, namely:— Loans raised under the authority of this Act. that will satisfy the London departments. shall be borrowed only from the Insular Govern- It is only with regard to this loan that any ment, or from persons resident in the Isle of question. arises as to the use of due diligence Man, or from persons or corporations whose hu ' heart is carried an exclusively i n the jele in the collection of the rates, because, the c f first loan is raised in order to meet the esti- We have agreed to those words, because mated deficiency created by the re-valu- they really carry out, perhaps more ex- ation. I hope I have made that clear. plicitly than the words which we put in, the That, really, is the whole pith of the Bill. ideas which were held in common by us and

Relief of Rates. TYNWALD COURT. APRIL 26, 1916. by them. These words, "Whose business is Mr Kermode: From the speech of the carried on exclusively in the Isle of Man," Attorney-General, it would appear that really are to be construed as meaning that these loans and grants will be made in the business must be controlled in the Isle respect of next year's rates. What is to of Man. It would not mean that a farmer, become of the balance of rates unpaid from for instance, who has sold his hay or crop to last year P be carried away into England, and who The Deputy-Governor: This Bill does not receives his money for the crop from Eng- deal with last year's rates. land, should be a person who could not lend Mr Kermode: No, that is what I was money, because he was carrying on business wondering at. elsewhere than in the Isle of Man. It simply means that a man must not have the The Deputy-Governor: Such people can executive part of his business outside the avail themselves of the E26,000 scheme for Isle of Man. Then, there is the question loans. of the extension of the Act. It must be Mr Kermode : Then that is their only remembered that this Act does not, as an resource. I had thought that this Bill Act, expire upon the termination of the would deal with last year's rates. war. It is impossible that it should, be- The Deputy-Governor : It was not sug- cause there are provisions with regard to gested by the local authorities that we the loans, and the special rate, which must need deal with that. last beyond that period. We have given Mr Kermode : It will put the local way on the question of the period of the authorities in a difficult position if last loan. We originally suggested 20 years, year's rates are not paid. but they thought that period too long. We The Deputy-Governor : We cannot go suggested 15 years, as a matter of compro- back upon that. mise, and they seem to have accepted that, The Attorney-General: This Bill as and there will be no further demur with originally drafted only dealt with future regard to that. There are certain nrovi- rates. sione in the Bill expressly made applicable only for the period of the war—for Mr Kermode : Do I understand that instance. clause 3, which begins. "Until the the balance of rates unpaid will be a lien termination of the war a local authority and a charge on the property for next may apply to Tynwald," ate.—but the Bill year ? itself cannot be allowed to expire. In the The Deputy-Governor : That is so under draft, we inserted power for the Tynwald statute. Court to extend the provisions of the Bill, Mr Kermode : Very well. Then I take They objected to that, and suggested that it that the balance of this year's rates, to- if this was clone by resolution of the Tyn- gether with next year's rates, will make weld Court, it should be subject to the up the money covered by the loan and the Royal assent. or else left for a new Bill. We grant? This balance will be brought for- thought the more convenient course would ward in the Commissioners' accounts, be to provide, as we have done now in the and will be dealt with as arrears in next Bill to be submitted to-day, that no such year's rates, and will be collectable from resolution of the Tynwald Court should the property in some form. come into operation until the approval of The Deputy-Governor : If the occupiers his Majesty in Council has been obtained don't choose to borrow the money under thereto. I think I have now covered the the loan. whole ground. If there is anything I have Mr Kermode : Then it will have to be left unexplained, I shall be very happy to borrowed this year by the defaulting ten- explain it to the best of my ability. An to ant's landlord? the. course we shall take, that is another The Deputy-Governor : The tenant matter, and can he dealt with afterwards. could borrow, if he chooses to do so. But I congratulate the House upon the suc- Mr Kerrnode : If the tenant is bank- cessful conclusion to which the negotiations rupt, the responsibility will have to be have been brought. No time has been lost, dealt with by the owners of the property. so far as we who have been working on this Col. Moore : Is the re-valuation of pro- aide of the Channel are concerned, because perty to he a temporary measure, and will all the suggestions which came from head- it come back to the old valuation after quarters were dealt with almost immedi- the war? ately. Relief of Rates. 386 TYNWALD COURT, APRIL, 25, 1916.

The Attorney-General: All valuations rate by id in the £, but the total' rates are only temporary. levied by them are 1id leSS:than last 'year. Col. Moore: The learned Attorney- If they cannot get the relief proposed by General has informed us that this Act the Act, they will suffer enormously, be- does not expire at the end of the war. cause the effect, of re-valuation upon then] The Attorney-General: The Bill does will be just the same. not deal with re-valuations; it leaves the The Vicar-General: If they dont't levy law as it was. the rate, they won't need the relief. Mr Crennell: One or two points have Mr Crennell: That would be all right occurred to me while just glancing if it only meant that the Higher Educa- through the Bill, and while listening to tion rate, as a separate rate. were not to the Attorney-General, who has I think I be levied. But this rate is levied by the may say, put. the matter before the Court School Board and collected by them. with the utmost clearness—(hear, hear)— Again, it may he that. some of the local so that I think we all have a thorough authorities have, by strict economy, grasp of the situation. The first point levied a smaller rate than last year. I arises on clause 7, which provides that the helieve it was the intention of the Ramsey local authority must, levy a rate of at Town Commissioners to levy a smaller rate. least as much as in the normal year, They have had no lighting, practically, When the matter was beforo the Commit- and have economised in other ways. But, tee of this Court, too, I remember that knowing the possibility of this provision that was made a condition. T don't being put in this Bill, they levied the know what is the position of all the local same rate as last year. But I don't know authorities in the Isle of Man. Most, if that all authorities in the same position not all, will have struck their rate for have done the same thing. That is one next year, and I don't know whether point T wish to. raise, and. perhaps it may, they have all maintained the same rate as be convenient to have this point answered last year. (Mr Kermode: Some of them before I ask the other questions I have in have levied more.) During last year, my mind. local authorities have, in a number of Mr Cowell: I understand that the ways, saved money—lighting, possibly Onchan Village Commissioners have de- cleaning, and so on. It is quite possible creased their rate from Is to 6d. that some of the local authorities may The Attorney-General: Unless the rate have struck their rate at a lower amount is the same as in the normal year, you than Iast year. If so. they would at cannot get at what the deficiency is The onoe cut themselves adrift from the bene- whole machinery goes. That is the way fits of this Bill. although they may be of ascertaining the difference. tremendously hit by the re-valuation, Mr Crennell: Oh, you can always de- just as if they bed maintained the rate. fine 'the difference. You assume that a The Attorney-General: Could not they rate of is in the £, for example, would make another rate? bring in so much on the old valuation, Mr Crennell: Can they levy a. supple- and then you find out how much the valu- mentary rate? ation has been affected by the re-valua- The Attorney-General: Oh, yes; that is tion, and so you find out what the differ- provided for in section 13. ence is. Well, if you find out the pro- Mr Crennell: That only deals with duct of a 6d rate on a new valuation, you cases where the local authority has not as can equally find the difference. There vet levied a rate at all. I have one parti- would be no difficulty at all. cular case in my mind; I don't know whe- The Attorney-General: The information ther there are others. (Mr Kerruish: that was given us was that the 'local Onchan.) In the Northern District, it authorities were all in communication has been the custom to levy the Higher with each other on the subject, and we Education rate of 2d in the £ two years were advised that this method would out of three. The Ramsey School Board exactly work it out. is one of the rating authorities which The Deputy-Governor : All they have to levies the Higher Education rate, and do is to estimate for the rate on the old that rate has net been levied this year. figure; they needn't levy it. If these On the other hand, the Ramsey School local authorities have made their rate so Board have raised their ordinary school much lower, they lose the relief, in one

Relief of Rates. TYNWALD COURT, APRIL 26, 1916. B87 sense, but then they won't require the delayed. My strong advice is to take the money. Bill as it stands, and deal with these Mr Crennell: Quite so. But they re- other problems by a further grant, if any- quire the full product on the old valua- body is being treated unjustly. tion, and the valuation will be reduced. The Attorney-General: The hon. member The Deputy-Governor : All they have to for Ramsey is a greater adept at hair- do is to estimate the product of the old splitting than most lawyers, and that is rate. saying a great deal. If these authori- Mr Crennell: When the Act says that ties levy a lesser rate, they don't need the local authority must estimate the relief by way of grant, that is all. The amount required to be levied by rate, it. object of this provision is to see that they means, I take it, that the rate which they don't get to much. levy must be based on the estimate. Mr Crennell I was going by what was Mr Kermode: In any case, if they re- placed before the Committee when they duce the rate, they reduce the sum re- considered this matter. The feeling was quired as grant. that we were not going to let plac which The Deputy-Governor : And then there could carry on with a reduced rate, get is the further question mentioned by the grants from the Government. (Hear, Attorney-General, as to whether or not hear.) That was why the minimum rate they can increase their rate at any time. was fixed at the rate levied last year. They could cancel the levy, and, under The Deputy-Governor: It was more a this Act, they could make another rate at means of arriving at a basis by which the a later date. There cannot be many of deficiency could he ascertained. the local authorities in such a position, Mr Crennell: I think the feeling was and this is a very small matter as com- that such places should not get a grant pared with the whole question. If there at all, as they did not need it. is any injustice we could make it up by Mr Cormode: Would it not be simple a grant of some sort. Don't let us get to to insert a. proviso giving the Committee talking about farthings in a matter that a discretionary power in such cases? involves £20,000. Mr Crennell: It is suggested that the Mr Crennell: What I am concerned object of a local authority's levying the about is that the lowering of the rate by same rate as last year, even though it id in the may sweep away the whole had economised in expenditure, was to right of a local authority to the grant. prevent the necessity of borrowing the The Deputy-Governor: I am not ex- third of the deficiency on the valuation pressing a decided opinion on the matter. which they could not get from the Gov- (After perusing the Bill.) Perhaps it is ernment. On the old valuation, they rather contradictory. would not need the old rate; but it is Mr Garside: I agree with the hon. suggested that on the re-valuation they member for Ramsey that certain words in would only get the two-thirds shortage the clause, which speak about "the from the Government, and the other amount to be levied," might, in the case third would be provided by the excess of local authorities which have already rate they had levied, and they would not levied their rate at a lower figure than need to borrow. If they do not lose the that of last year, cut them out from the whole right to a grant at all, but only lose benefit of the grant. Could they re- pro rata through having levied a smaller estimate, and re-levy? rate, then, of course, I should be satis- Mr Cormode: I don't quite know the fied. position. Are we in a position to amend Mr Garside: Is it not clear that they the Bill before us? If we are, I think we would not have, reduced the rate if they can easily remedy the matter complained had known that the right of re-valuation of. would be restored? Under the re-valua- The Deputy-Governor: I was very tion, they may lose a good deal on their anxious to get the Bill signed to-day, so estimate. that the rating authorities may be in a The Deputy-Governor: It is suggested position to levy their rates before the 12th that they could put in a fresh estimate, May. This opens up other questions, and levy again. Leaving this point for a which may lead to the whole matter being moment, will it be necessary under the

Relief of .Rates. 388 :TYNWALD COURT, APRIL 25, 1916.

Standing Orders that each branch should at all, would have to pay very much mor& meet separately? That would give the heavily than they should do. I don't know Council an opportunity of submitting a whether there is any way of dealing with clause to meet the difficulty which has that question. just been suggested, and to make it clear The Attorney-General: It is hopeless. II that places which have already levied the may be a very good thing, but you could rate may substitute another rate. not get it through. You might. bring in a Mr Crennell : Will that make it clear? separate Bill, but, really, it cannot go int q The Deputy-Governor: Except for hair- this Bill. If you re-open this Bill, tN splitting, what is the further difficulty? matter becomes hopeless. Mr Crennell: There is the difficulty in The Deputy-Governor : The compan,y the case of the Northern Higher Education might make that right in the followin rate. If the Higher Education rate is year. considered as a separate rate, it is all Mr Kermode : Are not they limited to 4: right. But it is collected by the School certain percentage? Board, and it may be that it is legally part Mr Curphey : How would you treat MI of the School Board rate. If it is obliga- butcher, then? The waterworks compan, tory for a local authority to level up its are purveying for the public, and th rate to last year's figure before it can oh- butcher is doing the same. Would yo tain relief, they would have to levy this bring in a Bill to meet the deficiency in hi Higher Education rate, even though they ease? (Laughter.) don't need it. Again. the School Board is Mr Crennell: But he does not supply an one of the rating authorities of the district, quantity of meat, and then charge on thi and their failure to levy as large a rate as rateable valuat&M, does he? (Laughter. in last year might mean that the total There is another point—the question o rates on the whole rating district might be giving notice of re-valuation. I think rd smaller than last year, and not only the valuation should be made universal. Per School Board, but all the rating authorities Sons may overlook the fact that they bar+ of the district, would be cut out of the to give notice of applieaeon. benefits of this Bill. The Deputy-Governor : Cannot that be The Deputy-Governer: Don't you thin] amended to show that this is the estimate, that a person that is so indifferent to till value of his property as not to make appli and not the actual levying of the rate cation within a month, or two months, i Mr Crennell : Then that matter is dis- you like, should be debarred ? posed of for the time being. There is another matter that I would like to raise. Mr Crennell : I don't think it is a ques tion of being indifferent, but they migh This cla-use.provides relief for all rating authorities—Aocal government authorities, not know that they had to apply. It is as the school authorities, and poor relief tonishing how little the public does know authorities. There is another class of have discovered that on the Tribunals public service which will not come under (Laughter.) it, I think. The ease was brought to my The Deputy-Governor! Some of us dis notice the other day. The water com- covered that long ago. (Laughter.) panies of the Island derive their revenues Mr Crennell (continuing): How little th entirely from a rate based on the rateable war, even, seems to affect some people. Bu valuation. In the case of Douglas, the I do think it would be unfortunate if pei water belongs to the Corporation, and, pre- sons were deprived of the right of re-valus sumably, any shortage in the rate will come Non simply because they had not applik in under this Bill the same as any other I think re-valuation should be universal. rate. But in the other districts of the The Vicar-General: So it has been. Island, the water belongs to private com- Mr Crennell: That is not panies. One of two things is bound to provided for. happen with these companies. Either, as a The Vicar-General: It has been so i public utility service, they come in for part fact. of the grant, and will still lose one-third of The Deputy-Governor : If we stem the difference on the valuation, or they amending like this, we shall not get the Bi will have, in some cases, enormously to in- through by the 12th May. These al crease their rate. And that would mean really very detailed questions. that properties, especially these properties Mr Crennell: There will be no questie that have not benefitted by the re-valuation about this, surely.

Relief of Rates, TYNWALD COURT, Ai'R.H, 25, 1916. foki

The Attorney-General: The whole thing that the Board purpose making a universal would be re-opened. re-valuation- Mr Crennell: Have the Treasury seen The Vicar-General: They have done it. this Bill in detail? It has been done. The Deputy-Governor No, but it is in Mr Quine: Can the Attorney-General tell_ such a stage that we know the Treasury will us the legal meaning of the words "undue consent to it. If the Bill is not signed to- laxity" in the clause relating to the special day, we won't be able to send it up and rate? have it back in time to prevent a state of The Attorney-General: Oh, that is chaos on the 12th May. another question for lawyers to unravel, I Mr Crennell: I don't see that. We could suppose. (Laughter.) There is a copy of meet to-morrow, or the day after. the New Century Dictionary in the Town Hall. (Loud laughter.) The Attorney-General: As a matter of fact, the subject lies been in detail haw, The Deputy-Governor: It is suggested the Treasury. that the matter should be considered separ- ately by the Council at 2-30, and perhaps The Vicar-General : The matter is of no the House of Keys will meet half-an-hour practical importance, because all the towns later to consider the Bill in their chamber, are absolutely being re-valued. and the Court can meet again and get the Mr Crennell Has the AssessMent Board Bill signed. that power? - The Attorney-General: Don't think The Vicar-General : Certainly, or V IC about the Bill' again until you meet here. should not do it. (Laughter.) Mr Crennell: If we have an undertaking The Court adjourned.

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,•Iief of Hates TYNWALD COURT.

DOUGLAS, TUESDAY. APRIL 25, 1916.

Present: In the Council: His Excellency dent for it, and we shall have to make one, the Deputy-Governor (Mr Thomas Kneen), I remember the old Vicar-General, when he Deemster Callow, the Attorney-General, was told there was no precedent, said, "I the Vicar-General, and the Archdeacon. will make one." (Laughter.) I beg to In the Keys: The Speaker (Mr Dalrymple move that that Bill be not forwarded for Maitland, J.P.), Messrs T. C. Kermode, the Royal assent, but that the same be W .Quayle, W: F. Cowell, W. Christian. cancelled. R.. S. Corlett. A. Christian, J. W. 'Walton, Mr Crennell: I second that, E. J. Ourphey, J. It. Kerruish, T. 11. Cor- mode, W. T. Crennell, R. Moughtin, Mr Cormode: I would like to suggest, as Clucas, J. Qualtrough, T. F. Quine, J. an amendment, that we hand it to the Cunningham, J. Garside, M. Carine, and custodian of the Manx museum. (Laughter.) Gel_ Moore. Motion carried. The House met the Council in Tynwald The Deputy-Governor: A memorandum at 4-30 p.m. will be put on the foot of the Bill and signed by the Governor and the Speaker, that that RELIEF OF RATES. has been done. The Deputy-Governor laid before the Court for signature the War Emergency MUER EY'S SCHOLARSHIP BILL. (Relief of Rates) Act, 1916. The Deputy-Governor laid before the The Attorney-General: As a matter of Court for signature a Bill entitled " The form, it seems to be necessary to get rid Murrey's Scholarship Act, 1916." . of the Bill which we passed before and Mr Cormode: Will it be necessary to signed on the lath day of March, and called promulgate this Bill before it becomes law? The War Emergency Local Authority Does your Excellency intend to have a Loans Act, 1916." The new Bill we have special promulgation P passed now is called "The Relief of Rates Act," so it is quite distinct. Now, it will The Deputy-Governor: The Promulgation be remembered that when the former Bill Act has not come down from London; it was signed, we wished to avoid calling the has not yet received the Royal assent. Court together again to merely sign it, but LORD'S RENT PURCHASE. it was the wish of the Court that the Bill The Lord's Rent Purchase Amendment should be retained in the hands of his Act, 1916, was also signed. Excellency and not be forwarded for the Royal assent. It is necessary now to get The Tynwald Court being completed the rid of it in some way. There is no prece- Council retired.

Relief of Rates.—Murrey's Scholarship,—Lord's Rent Purchase.