ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
RADM CHESTER W. NIMITZ, JR., USN (RET.)
Interviewed by: EVELYN M. CHERPAK NAVAL WAR COLLEGE NEWPORT, RHODE ISLAND
Conducted in November 2001 As part of the Naval War College History of Naval Warfare Oral History Series
Reformatted and bound for distribution by the Naval Historical Foundation with permission of the Naval War College
2002
Introduction
In early January 2002, obituary sections in newspapers across the country reported the passing of Chester W. Nimitz, Jr. and his wife Joan. Frail and in failing health, they chose to end their lives together on 2 January at their retirement residence in Needham, Massachusetts.
For the board and staff at the Naval Historical Foundation, the news was particularly sad because Rear Admiral Nirnitz had been a life member and had requested that he be interviewed for an oral history. There was a feeling of another opportunity missed, when a call was taken from Evelyn Cherpak at the Naval War College. She had an opportunity to meet with Nimitz in November of 2001 to record the enclosed interview.
Of course being the son of a legendary naval figure had its advantages and disadvantages. Having retired as the Navy Captain, Nimitz was made a “Tombstone Admiral” in retirement due to his outstanding war record. He lamented the promotion because people began confusing his wife with his mother!
Famous father aside, Junior’s career is worthy of an oral history because of his own naval service that opened with a tour on the INDIANAPOLIS with President Roosevelt embarked. lie then transferred to the submarine service. lie was embarked on STURGEON en route to Manila. when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Consequently, he was among the first to take on the Japanese offensive juggernaut, lie conducted numerous war patrols, serving as Executive Officer of Bluefish and Commanding Officer of HADDO. However, his greatest contribution to the U.S. war effort may have been his work to resolve the problems that plagued torpedo warhead exploders. His discussions of the problem contained herein are insightful.
He also fought in the Korean War during the famous “Siege of Wonsan,” this time as skipper of the destroyer O’BRIEN. After tours at the Armed Forces Staff College and Navy staff duty in London, he concluded his naval career as Commanding Officer of the submarine tender ORION. That he chose to resign after reaching the twenty-year mark was a bitter pill for his father who was proud that his son was following his successful career. However, the younger Nimitz had three daughters approaching college age and his Navy salary could not cover the needed tuition. Subsequently, he had a very successful post-Navy career, first with Texas Instruments and then with Perkin-Elmer Corporation, where he was president until he retired in 1980.
Kudos to Evelyn Cherpak for capturing this oral history for the Naval War College Oral History Program and granting permission to the Naval Historical Foundation to reformat and distribute the transcript.
David F. Winkler, Ph.D. April 2002
REAR ADMIRAL CHESTER W. NIMITZ, JR., USN (Ret)
Chester William Nimitz, Jr., was born in Brooklyn, New York on 17 February 1915, son of Fleet Admiral Chester William Nimitz USN, and. Mrs. (Catherine Vance) Nimitz. He attended Tabor Academy, San Diego (California) High School, and Severn Preparatory School, Severna Park, Maryland, “before his appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy by President Herbert Hoover in 1932. He was graduated and commissioned Ensign on June 4, 1936, and through subsequent promotions, attaining the rank of Captain to on 1 September 1954. He was promoted to Rear Admiral after his retirement in recognition of his combat record during World War II.
After graduation in June 1936. he was assigned to the USS INDIANAPOLIS, and served aboard that cruiser until December 1938. He was then ordered to the Submarine Base, New London, Connecticut, and completing instruction in submarines, joined the USS STtJRGEON in June 1939. He was serving as Torpedo and Gunnery Officer of that submarine when the United States entered World War II on December 8, 1941, and later had duty as her Executive Officer. For outstanding service aboard the STURGEON, he was awarded the Silver Star Medal which was personally presented by his father, then Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet, at Pearl Harbor, Territory of hawaii, in January 1943. The citation follows in part:
“For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity as Torpedo and Gunnery Officer, and later as Executive Officer of the USS STURGEON during action against enemy forces since the commencement of hostilities. Largely through Lieutenant Nimitz’ capable efforts the Torpedo Armament of the STURGEON functioned with above average performance. This, together with the skillful operation of the Torpedo Data Computer contributed greatly to the success in the many actions of the STURGEON with the enemy, which resulted in the sinking or greatly damaging much enemy shipping. Further, during the Third War Patrol the STURGEONwas ordered to conduct a reconnaissance and rescue RAF personnel, from a small island off the entrance of Tgilatjap, Java, the waters thereto being under Japanese control (He) conducted this with two men in a small submarine power boat.. .and definitely determined that the personnel were not therc...at great risk to his own personal safety...”
1-Icwas later awarded a Gold Star in lieu of the Third Silver Star Medal for “conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action in the performance of his duties on the USS STURGEON during the Second War Patrol of that vessel in enemy controlled waters during the period 29 December 1941 to 13 February 1942...”
Returning to the United States, he reported, in February 1943 to the Electric Boat Company, Groton, Connecticut, for duty in connection with fitting out the USS BLUEFISH. He joined that submarine when she was commissioned on 24 May 1943 and served as her Executive Officer, Navigator and Assistant Approach Officer until 17 February 1944. He was awarded a Gold Star in lieu of the second Silver Star Medal, “For distinguishing himself by conspicuous heroism and performance of duty (in that assignment) during the first and second war patrols of the USS BLUEFISH...”
The citation states further: Navy remained command, Unit Commander Navy Letter the close damaging indispensable “Lieutenant Seas. that waters Commanding vessels damaged fleet-type enemy all “For April, aircraft transport of water...” the sea...” our “For turn escort off “For 1,500 1944. Commendation Cross: Unit the of attacks ship...” the bottom invasion vessel launching He distinguishing meritorious outstanding inshore Commendation: in tons His USS screens 1944...” Valiantly adjacent he anti-submarine West Commendation and during was command in to a Japanese was conduct 50,700 and damaged in third two HADDO Chief, a Commander the transferred Coast of in transport, enemy in Officer and awarded maneuvered a her bottom.. the destroyers to the actions Destroyer. bombing defiant awarded conduct heroism tons. Pacific the as launched torpedoes of of Philippines, Destroyers hazardous himself on controlled during Executive that of Luzon Philippine vessels to this thereby the His resulting .The to of the Nimitz’ in Fleet, USS raid submarine in the and command the Navy his by skill patrol. United the action In her action and with HADDO HADDO. enemy and on enemy’s a extraordinary further and HADDO: ship waters accounting the Fifth Officer and devastating patrol in Islands Mindoro services Cross/and in enemy deadly airplanes. in another navigation during USS He States expertly sinking also until of War the controlled attacks during out-maneuvered vessel displayed over contributed the The 1-IADDO of bases received performance accuracy as Patrol Submarine her 10 in for large Luzon USS a 38,929 attacks powering citations Assistant to heroism the October On with Letter the on Seventh enabled a and avoid waters total Philippines Armed of HADDO heavily one sound period a skillfully and another despite gallantly tons that to facsimile greatly of occasion all of HADDO in follow 1944. send of Approach strength Mindoro...he his War Commendation of and tactical vessel action of Escort 8 damage 17,100 escorted his the vessel August on the destroyer enemy two to Patrol out-fought pierced rescued from duties For in of, East 17 the fury from he against during on part: judgment Vessel, tons valuable February and heroic Officer from to high cooperated convoys to 8 shipping the in Indies of as operate the August 29 engaged of lying 5 a restricted Ribbon battle Commanding Seventh this the naval the October state the with February shipping and strongest services were freighters and in counterattacks enemy period crippled enemy 1944, he and seriously successfully to of Ribbon, and his aviator for, and with South sank 3 morale War enemy 1944. in decisions October sending in sunk and to the hostile just sank as at our that two and in 22 Patrol from Officer China every from Navy prior the and In waters of two a cargo to of the on the of to
I
Ii I
j] U
I I From 10 October to 31 October 1944, he served on the staff of Commander Submarines, Seventh Fleet, following his return to the United States, he reported on 8 December 1944 for duty as instructor at the Submarine School, Submarine Base, New London, Connecticut. For outstanding services as Head of the Torpedo Department of the Submarine School from December 1944 to September 1945 he received a Letter of Commendation from the Commander in Chief, Atlantic Fleet, with authorization to wear a bronze star on his Commendation Ribbon.
Following duty in connection with fitting out the USS SARDA (SS-488), he assumed command, of that submarine on her commissioning 19 April 1945. Completing that duty in June 1948, he reported two months later to the University of California, at Berkeley where he served until July 1950 as an instructor in the Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps Unit. After one month’s instruction at the Fleet Sonar School, with no former destroyer experience, he recommissioned and assumed command of the USS O’BRIEN (DD-725). “For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity as Commanding Officer of the USS O’BRIEN during engagements between naval light forces, particularly in the seizure of Wonsan, Korea, on 17 July 1951...” he was awarded the Bronze Star Medal with Combat “V.”
Detached from the O’BRIEN in December 1951, he. was designated Commander Submarine Division 32, and served in that assignment for a year. From February through Juno 1955 he was a student at the Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, Virginia, and in August reported to the Staff of Commander in Chief, Eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean, for duty in the Strategic Planning Section. In August 1956 he assumed duties as Commanding Officer of the USS ORION (AS-18).
Retiring from the Navy, Nimitz worked for Texas Instruments for four years and then moved to Connecticut to work for Perkin-Elmer Corp. After four years he became that company’s president, a title he held until his retirement in 1980.
In addition to the Navy Cross, Silver Star Medal with two Gold Stars, the Bronze Star Medal with Combat “V,” the Navy Unit Commendation Ribbon, and the Commendation Ribbon, with star and Combat “V,” Rear Admiral Nimitz has the Army Distinguished Unit Badge (for services in defense of the Philippines, 26 31 December 1941); the American Defense Service Medal, Fleet Clasp; Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal; American Campaign Medal; World War II Victory Medal; Korean Service Medal; United Nations Service Medal; National Defense Service Medal; and the Philippine Defense Ribbon.
Rear Admiral and Mrs. Nimitz, the former Joan Leona Labern of St. Holier, Jersey, Channel Islands, British Isles, have three daughters, Frances Mary, Elizabeth Joan, and Sarah Catherine.
Subjects Covered
Born in Brooklyn--Three sisters Sent to Severn Preparatory School--USNA pipeline Presidential appointment--Class of 1936 Tight budgets--Not all Midshipmen commissioned Quality of education--JV Crew--Spending money Summer cruises and Cape Cod vacations Discipline
First ship--INDIANAPOLIS--Assistant Navigator Roosevelt cruise to South America Crossing the line--FDR and four pollywogs Port visits--Social calls--Thoughts on FDR Captain Hewitt--CO of INDIANAPOLIS Jobs as Asst. Engineer and Deck Department Homeport Long Beach--His bride Joan the dentist
Decision to go into the Submarine service Motivated by early command--Submarine pay--Father’s service Submarine School New London--Comments on training
Assignment to STURGEON in San Diego Duties on a fleet submarine--description of the boat Living quarters--local operations--Deployed to Hawaii He and Joan living with Mr. Ikeda--Social life Topical hours November 1941--Evacuate the Families--Deployed to Manila “Executive War Plan Orange” message
War patrol to Formosa--Japanese air attacks Preparations for war--Admiral Fife Skipper Bull Wright--Depth charge attack Failed torpedoes--Redeployed to Fremantle Search and rescue mission near the Java Sea Small boat mission--Six patrols
Reassignment to BLUEFISH as XO Train trip to New London with Joan Assignment to Fremantle--two successful war patrols Awarded Silver Star by father
Assigned ashore to work the torpedo problem Admiral Ralph Christy--Torpedo analysis--modify the exploders U
Command of the HADDO B Attack on submarine tender--six prematures Threw magnetic exploders over the side “Back to drawing board” message Alterations to the contact exploders Torpedo production--Failure of T&E
Philippine rescue mission--South China Sea patrol Destroyer kills--Navy Unit Commendation and Navy Cross Ordered off--”Old Man worries”
Dinner with father and Admirals McMorris and Spruance Origins of “Where’sTF 34, The World Wonders” message Battle of Leyte Gulf
Reassignment to Sub School Torpedo and Gunnery Department Command of SARDA Thoughts on the end of the war
Homeported at Portsmouth--Sonar R&D Woods Hole--Maneuvering problems Discussion of crew
NROTC Berkeley as Assistant PNS Left-leaning student body Reassignment to Armed Forces Staff College I Called to command destroyer O’BRIEN Attempt to resign--Not accepted Return to San Diego--O’BRIEN--a Kamikaze victim Reservists as crew members Duty to Korea--Siege of Wonson Operating with Task Force 77--Winter off Korea
Reassigned in 1952 to be a Submarine Division Commander at San Diego Tour at Armed Forces Staff College and then to England I Strategic Plans section at CTNCNELM--1953-1956 Staff work--VIPs--Lord Mountbatten
Assignment to ORION--Gunfire incident Caribbean cruise
Low pay and three daughters of college age Decision to retire Tombstone Rear Admiral I I Invited to work for Texas Instruments Four years--Business training--Learning accounting
Switched to Perkin-Elmer--Optical equipment Was head for 16 years--Leadership philosophy Huge growth--Retired in 1980
Reflection on Navy Career--Enjoyment of submarines Reflection on father--Strong mother Thoughts on King, Spruance, Flalsey Guadalcanal visit with Vandergrift
Final comments on Navy pay a a a c a a c c w c; c;- C c n o = = 6 NOVEMBER 2001
CHERPAK: This is the first oral history interview with Rear Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Jr. It’s being conducted at his home at North Hill in Needham, Massachusetts. Today’s date is November 5, 2001. I am Evelyn Cherpak, the curator of the Naval Historical Collection at the Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island. Admiral Nimitz, I am very pleased that you could give us some time this morning to be interviewed for our Oral History Program on Naval Warfare. I’d like to begin the interview by asking you where and when you were born?
NIMITZ: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, on February 17, 1915.
CHERPAK: Did you have any brothers and sisters?
NIMITZ: I have three sisters, no brothers.
CHERPAK: Where did you spend your youth, since your father was in the Navy?
NIMITZ: We spent it traveling around, following my father in the Navy, you see, is exactly what we did.
CHERPAK: Where did you graduate from high school?
NIMITZ: I never really did.
CHERPAK: Oh.
NIMITZ: I went to San Diego Iugh School, I think, in what amounted to be, was supposed to he. the tenth grade. And then I ended up going to Severn School, a preparatory school for the Academy. And spent two thirds of the year there, and so I never really graduated from any schools. I left Severn before the end of the school year, being confident that I’dpass the competitive exam for the Naval Academy as a son of a naval officer with presidential appointments. And went to the Naval Academy.
CHERPAK: So the Severn School was a prep school basically?
NIMITZ: Entirely. At that time it was entirely a prep school for the Naval Academy.
CHERPAK: You finished, I assume, tenth grade there, did you?
NIMITZ: No, I finished the tenth grade in San Diego High School.
CHERPAK: Oh, okay. LI
[I NIMITZ: And then went to Severn.
CHERPAK: Severn School. Why did you decide to enter the Naval Academy? 11
NIMITZ: I frequently say, facetiously, that I had graduated from the Academy before I understood there were other educational institutions I could have gone to. It was the only one ever talked about in the family. And I don’tknow that my father--I don’tknow that he could have ever afforded to send me to college, quite frankly. I ultimately ended up getting out of the Navy because I couldn’t afford to send my girls to college and stay in the Navy.
CHERPAK: Did your father influence your selection, and did the Navy life have an impact on you, do you think in your choice?
NIMITZ: Well, yes, the Navy life appealed to me. I certainly was attracted to it. [] CHERPAK: So the moving, the constant moving around didn’t really affect you negatively.
NIMITZ: No, no. Not until I’ddone it for twenty-one more years out of the Academy.
CHERPAK: From whom did you receive your appointment to the Academy? U NIMITZ: The president. The president gave fifteen appointments a year to the sons of Army, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard officers. And you took a competitive exam for them. Navy, U CHERPAK: Oh, that’s great. Well, when did you enter the Naval Academy, what year?
NlM1TZ: Nineteen thirty-two. June 4th, 1932 or June 9th, at the depth of the Depression. And my class, entering in 1932, my class graduated in 1936. And it was the smallest Naval Academy class for years, before or ever since. Theyjust didn’thave the money.
CHERPAK: It was because of the depression, I guess.
NIMITZ: Yes.
CIIERPAK: Even an education that was free was difficult.
NIMITZ: Yes, as a matter of fact, of interest, the class that graduated first after I got to the Naval Academy, the class of 1933,they couldn’teven afford to commission all of the people from the Naval Academy. And so thirty-three filtered back into the Navy, one year, two years, and three years later as Roosevelt gradually built up the Navy.
2 CHERPAK: Interesting. Can you comment on the education you received there?
NIMITZ: Yes, well, yes. I think it was simply marvelous. The reason I say that is that as a Navy junior, many years later I got out of the Navy, and knowing nothing and in a very competitive world, found the Navy experience and the Naval Academy education served me very well.
CHERPAK: Good. Did you get involved in athletics at all at the Academy?
NIMITZ: Yes, to some extent. I rowed on the plebe crew. My father had been a crewman. And I guess I rode on a JV crew in my second year. But then I didn’t;from then on I was not in varsity athletics.
CHERPAK: I suppose social life and vacation time was very limited?
NTMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: During your four years there.
NIMITZ: Yes, it was. But my grandchildren can’tbelieve what it was like when I tell them that, “Well,our first year at the Naval Academy we got two dollars spending money a month, the next year four dollars, the next year seven fifty and the last year ten dollars.”
CHERPAK: Well, things were much cheaper then, too. Where did you spend your summers on cruises when you were there?
NIMITZ: Well, summers, vacations, I spent generally up on Cape Cod. Vacation month, I think, was pretty much September.
CHERPAK: Oh, did your parents own a place on Cape Cod then?
MMITZ: No, no. I had an aunt, my mother’sfather and mother had retired there. But the rest of the time we were either on cruises or on a second class summer, pretty well occupied.
CHERPAK: Right. They kept you busy and it was kind of a year-round situation at the Academy. Did you feel that your education, your technical education, at the Academy prepared you for the future Navy duties you were to assume?
NIMITZ: Yes, I think it was remarkably good. I’mconstantly bemused by the continuing search for money from its graduates by the Naval Academy Alumni Association so that the Academy can do this or do that, put up a new field house or some such thing as that. And, to the best of my knowledge, I never heard of anybody giving the Naval Academy money at any time while I was at the Naval Academy. And, furthermore, I keep pointing out to the Alumni Association that the
3 U people who graduated from the Academy while I was there were really the people who ran World U War II. And it seemed to me the Academy did a pretty damn goodjob when you consider how much it had to be diluted with reserves and so forth to fill it out. And, therefore, I am always allergic to saying--so that the Naval Academy can fulfill its full mission. I think its mission was filled very well with taxpayer money.
CHERPAK: All right. Are you a member of the Academy Alumni Association?
NI1flTZ: Yes, just by definition. U CIIERPAK: Right, oh, very good. Did you enjoy your years in Annapolis? Your four years - there? [j NIMITZ: Yes. I certainly never felt abused or unduly confined. Ijust had never known any kind of different sort of existence. I was prepared for that kind of existence and.... [] CHERPAK: And that kind of discipline-
NIMITZ: Yes, yes.
CHERPAK: --that you have there. Well, you graduated in 1936. This is before the war El began. What was your first ship assignment, and your first job on the ship?
NIMITZ: My first ship was the iNDIANAPOLIS, a simply 10,000-ton, so called Treaty class [] heavy cruiser. She was also flagship for the scouting force. And my firstjob was as assistant to the navigator. Itjust couldn’thave been a more heavenlyjob for a young officer right out of the Naval Academy, because Ijoined the iNDIANAPOLIS in Brooklyn where she was being fitted out to take President Roosevelt to Buenos Aires and Rio de Janeiro. And I was aboard when we took him down there. And it was just simply a marvelous cruise. And being assistant navigator, I was always up on the bridge, I knew exactly where we were and what we were doing and so forth. And the president and his son-
CHERPAK: James?
NIMITZ: James and I and another person out of my class, we were the only four polliwogs on board. So that when we crossed the line, the INDIANAPOLIShad just been crossing the line many times during some maneuvers before they picked up Roosevelt. So they made a real ceremony of crossing the line. And the president would get the four of us together and give us scurrilousjobs to do. CHERPAK: Oh, really. What did you have to do for example? Do you remember? I I
I
twin
much
NIMITZ:
NIIVIITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: long- to
NIMITZ:
on
CHERPAK:
English
Banner”
NIMITZ:
lovely
making
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
your
Roosevelt outlet
NIMITZ:
“You
take
the
daughters
for
bunks.”
get
Unknown
in
sort
part
had
very
in
the
each
up
Oh,
No
was
of
--fete,
English.
Yes,
Right.
in
Yes.
Yes,
Well,
been
four
at
park-like
And
But
Did
interesting
social
Party?
of
Great.
our I
Oh,
Oh,
Oh.
these
they
eleven-thirty
didn’t.
I
he
Soldier the,
days,
yes.
taught
went
for
Well,
I
age.
you
so
how
right,
was
imagine
I
fined
activities
parties
on
can
forth
instance--
And
with
And
meet
to
embarcadero,
yes
a
to interesting.
each
of
hardly
Montevideo
right.
stops
him
great
and
you sing
Montevideo,
were
he
a
very
the and
you
side
family
while
a
just
was
went
smoker
it
Yes,
along
dollar
remember So
president
at
interesting.
put
had
in
of
the heckle
four-thirty
he
we
English
that
Well,
the
sure.
on
to there
parties
to
the
cigar
had
owner
of
were
Montevideo
by
quarterdeck
decked
lay--as
had
cigars.
way.
them.
“Nimitz,
were
you
the
of
prominent
to
for
in
In
in
two
Argentina
of
with
buy
and
words
honor
Buenos
were
Rio,
each
5
a
massed
out
a
And
twin
representative
great
pass
one
Naval
you’ll--”
in
in
member
which
and
on
of let
so
civilians
daughters,
full
Buenos
for
words
Aires,
number
the
school
all
alone,
a
then?
Rio,
officers?
very,
dress
each
of
president. is
There’s
of
not
like,
the
as
too,
Aires.
and
and
children
of
the
very
member
of
and
the
a
used
ill
the
the “All
Dutch these
I
so
crew.
a
will
ship
so
gather?
And
important
general
It
forth.
railroad
President--to
when
forth.
you
was
singing
fell
children
pulled
of
family,
it
sheilbacks
I
the
was really
you’re
on
We
spent
announcing
routes
us.
along
“The
crew?
simply
cruise
who
were
who
remarkable.
The
my under
lay
in
Star
side
had
didn’t
pull
all
time,
a
penalty
Argentina
just and
eath
way.
system
required
Spangled
two
this
out
one
pretty
speak
of for
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: that
because
NIMITZ:
senior naval
time
MMITZ:
CHERPAK:
in
there CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
de third time
CHERPAK:
him. NIMITZ: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: son NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
outside.
and
time.
Janeiro
somebody
James?
very,
I
passes
You
place
officers
and
was
ensign
I
was
very
couldn’t
Montevideo,
on
Yes.
in
Oh,
Yes.
Well,
Actually,
Oh,
Yes,
as
and
on
our
it.
during
always
She
Can
Okay,
Right.
being
Congenial?
Wonderful
Oh,
took
wealthy.
marvelous,
I
as
Captains,
INI)TANAPOLIS,
it
thought
Buenos
hierarchy
help
lives
was.
history
you
you
care
World
feted
I
delighted
because
Well,
don’t
it;
had
give
in
We
too.
of
they
Aires
he
executive
fades
Middletown,
at
marvelous. experience.
the
of
War
did
know
spent
a
me
just
Well,
all
ex-Presidents.
were
wonderful
I
daughters
to
was
you
know
into
your
of
II.
had
take
time
anybody
you
one
these
And
fine.
the
officers
have
the
the
impressions
Roosevelt
care
The
both
of
What
were
only
background
Captain
Rhode They
of
most
parties.
my
experience.
the
INDIANAPOLIS
of
that
senior
at
and
place
under
jobs
Floride
same was
were
their
remarkable
ever
Island.
6
department
Hewitt
made
Were
we
officers
was
your
of
houses
fine,
kind
the
really
that
myself.
him? stayed
to
a
had
you
charge
opinion
yes.
he’s,
be
of
speech
personality.
on
met
in
experiences
a
heads,
sure
that
part
had
Actually.
Buenos
board.
I
daughter,
and
think
of
just
that of
length
in
of
Captain
knew
they
Franklin
Rio,
And
the
even
wonderful
any
Aires
And,
Floride
of
all
social
and
in
Roosevelt
it
ship
now,
time.
became
was
and
Montevideo
you
Hewitt
he
D.
social
scene?
Hewitt.
really
in
a
know,
officers
was
Roosevelt
wonderful
the
very
who
at
functions,
entertained
jockeying
country
that
I’m
And,
prominent
all
didn’t
and
sure
point
the
and
task,
as
Rio
like
as
the
for
his
[I
[]
n
11
1]
U
I I
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMJTZ:
CHERPAK:
University that
overhauling,
NIMITZ:
in
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
Beach, NIMITZ:
the
tough
CHERPAK:
the
everybody
department.
half
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
assistant NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
So
London.
it
ship,
she
ship
years,
was
gang
while
should
go
the
navigator
of
a
Yes.
Yes.
maybe
And
would
‘Thirty-eight,
It
At
on
Yes,
Oh,
back
happy
a And
part
California
the
went
So
Oh,
short ‘Thirty-eight.
Was
And
the
the
Oh,
get
Now
had
yes.
we
she’s
ship
of
my
to?
have
a
Mare
for
ship.
orthodontic
back
right,
ship
that you
overhaul,
hair
the
practiced
were
she’s
Just
was
last
was
heaven’s
a
to
ship
in
to
were
Island
more.
in
you
dentist?
‘38.
job
simply
over
kill rotated
right.
still
in
San
the
‘37
that
Long
And
was
might
themselves
on
as
head
Pacific
training
Francisco,
And
there
Navy
after
or
sake.
And
wonderful.
a
gets
the
fairly
in
‘38?
locum
where
Beach.
I
of
charge say?
INDIANAPOLIS
the
with
Yard.
had
dirty
there’s
base
Isn’t
that?
after.
rapidly.
two-year
jobs
for
working
did
which
her
on
in
She
of
that
It
six
Now
And
Long a
you
Friday
the
killed
in
husband
And
had new
7
months
interesting? is
the
Third
so
meet
after
for
a
time
Beach.
graduated
engineering
dental I
me
book
she
afternoon
stayed
inspection
in
your
your
Division,
frame?
when
and
Captain
came
Mare
about
And
school,
decided
on
wife,
cruise
from it
to
as
Island.
I
the
was
department
the
the
that
got
we’d
Taylor.
which
and
may
INDIANAPOLIS
Dental,
next
to torpedoed.
United
that
married
incident.
steam
I
South
I
met
was
that
day.
ask?
I
Royal
see
States,
and
her
the
in
at
experience
America,
So
them
that
fast.
So
while
after
in
we
Dental
your
to
the
time
And
had
for
occasionally.
the
division
we
deck
where
job
told
two
the
in
College,
were
Long
real
as
her
and
of did
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
people.
powerful
Anyway,
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: appeal
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
given
NIMITZ:
decided CHERPAK: the
and
CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CIJERPAK:
NIMITZ:
in
CRERPAK:
CIIERPAK:
orthodontistry
telephone
children,
the
of
to
so
ship
an
physical,
Pay
Oh,
go
First
Yes,
She Well,
Yes.
Other
submarines
independent
come
fairly
if
Oh,
Oh,
It
Very,
into That’s
Siblings Do
Right,
Oh,
and
it
has
things
place,
it’s
must
as
was
yes,
than
you
because
really?
very
the
did
to
a
two.
regularly.
wonderful.
well.
very
quarter.
great. and
so the
she
have
that
worked
have
I
submarine
she
there?
few
offered
couldn’t
she
rigorous
command
But
Cape
still
interesting.
that’s
six
ever
of
people
been
any
has
then
And
the
has.
months
right.
almost
a
one
pass practice?
connections
a
chance
they
rigorous.
type
we
that
problem,
service,
could
that
sister
So
the
got
had
Well, as
every
sister
of
also
it
for
physical
a
pass
married
had
service
there
to
locum,
and
command
could
summer.
you
has
change
right.
with
an
it.
that’s
I
8
a
appeal
left
wonder
you
for
and
no.
couple
do
England
Oh,
it,
the
aviation.
a
alive,
They’re
But
were
began
at
or
great
and how
a
INDIANAPOLIS
of
they’d
why
she
much
a
entering.
it
children,
this
deal
still?
interesting.
younger
very
also did
Matter
you
never
younger
moving
of
graduate.
close
had
made
damage.
one
of
sister,
gotten
extra
to
fact,
business.
age.
So
of
that
our
She
in
whom,
and
pay
she’s
I
any
when
And
mean
children.
1938
choice?
did
for she
aviators.
British?
they
our
get
with
submarine
a
talks
and
very
class
her
had
his
you
to
degree
the
her
wife
was
on
Ii U
Ii
[]
1
j]
L]
U
I fJ I
you
this
he
CHERPAK: train.
chalk
MMITZ:
electrical
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
armed
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CIIERPAK:
myriad you
operate and they’re
NIMITZ:
constantly
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
didn’t
book.
shipped
then
will,
They
when
forces
going
jobs--the
it.”
know
having
engineering,
of
And
impressed
may
And
And
Training,
The
I I
Well,
Yes.
a Precise,
fell did.
out?
have
to
Women. Nimitz
No,
Right.
Training?
What
So
So
much
that’s
not planning need
women,
people
the
asleep.
armed
he’d
he
that
so
literally
know
Navy--then
very
not
electricity
supported
training,
you
to
kind
Class
by
I
been
appealed
say,
remember,
do,
services
And
all
the
absolutely.
and
precise
got
how
changed
of
carrier,
the
bad.
a
“Well,
fact
I
submariner.
forethought
training
good
training.
got
to
American
either,
saying
do
that
that.
training
to
do
to
used
that’s
finished
training
them
the
you.
And
it
know
if
Did
but
scientifically.
did
to
anybody
circumstances
to--had
training,
What
it’s
constantly.
for
the
that Armed
So
he
you
that
him
with
because
at
being
was
Navy,
that
had
attend
sub
very
did
consist
hit
in
9
all
Forces
probably
damn
not
to
the
a
me
your
school.
of
“Here’s
For
well
the go
submarine
education.”
of
world
sub
its
in
of?
sure
into
understand
armed
instance,
blacks,
the father
intricacies,
later
school influenced
your
How
getting
going
knows
forehead
in
forces
officer.
for
think
ship.
submarine.
long
You
my
in
go
people
instance. how
that
pulled New
prof
be
me,
know
Get
can
several
was
of
And
perfectly.
to
sure
that?
London, too.
some
say
at
the
competent
teach
up
how
just
But
the
I
times
what
alongside
knew
training
people
Naval
as
he
to
people
And
an
teach,
you
also
with Connecticut?
what
to
aside,
just
Academy
to
want.
before
to
knew
do
a
a
run
how
was
piece
dock
do
think,
all
I’m
it
The
what
that
the
in
to
arid
of
in if
CIIERPAK: Friday
MMITZ:
CIIERPAK: It
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: NIMITZ:
there
CHERPAK:
conditioned NIMITZ: was
skipper.
someplace
been
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: probably
mess,
MMITZ:
STURGEON,
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: MMITZ:
was
extremely
was
to
a
afternoons.
treasurer,
very
the
But
was
no
When
The
around
Mind
Well,
Yes.
Well,
Yes.
Six
Fall
and
they
nice
hot
And
Oh,
the
That’s
Right.
I
Everything
I’d
And
So
electrical
claustrophobic
months.
just
the
beautiful,
bunking
River
And
you,
were
the
we
life.
first
done
as
that
number
really?
where
ship
what
ajunior
wanted
were
so-called
most
then
the
lieutenant,
comfortable,
was
everything.
Battleship
service
machinery.
or
air
were
did
big,
operational,
one
I
that
unusual.
long
anything went
officer,
conditioning--
your
you
fleet
comfortable.
sixty
your
and
a
officer,
enough.
and
to
junior
go?
observation
Cove
submarines
and
the
on,
they
But almost
duties
like
I
we
don’t
How
STURGEON
all
STURGEON
we
and
it
officer
always
that.
would
later
those
had
We
remember. there?
tin-canny.
far
been
that
10 on
became
a
all
out
would
included
crummy
go
nice
life
had
in
I’d
out
did
in
a
was
wardroom.
say
in
our
But
World
on do.
obvious
San
you
a
the
little
one
they
Monday
two-bunk
pre-Worid
obviously
Diego,
go?
commissary
eighty
jobs
War
were
that
The
that
mornings
a
II
it those
seven.
staterooms
brand
by
crew
made
submarine,
War
had
the
officer,
from
had
new
to
She
time
the
II
and
get
submarine.
their
one--I
life
was
fleet
except
I
the
come
done.
left
and
worth
own
air
wardroom,
submarine.
don’t
the
for
back
to
And
bunks;
living.
me
the
I’ve
know
I
it
U
U
[] I [1
[] p U L
I I U -
and
from
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
corporation,
cottages
NIMITZ:
Fair,
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
the
CITERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
routine
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
they’d
CHERPAK:
had
it
in
NIMITZ:
San
was
San
year
so
the
Diego
us.
a
forth.
big
really....
ask,
Diego
And
duty,
before
on
on
department
Yes,
Yes.
Joan
Oh,
his
so
“What
Yes.
You
the
Yes.
Well,
and
And
Joan
I
Before
similar,
Old
that
Oh,
Did
Oh,
Well,
Quite
estate,
had
the
yes.
STURGEON,
well,
and
he
must
I
so
was
I
and
do
we
Hawaii.
you
I
war
yes,
to
was
owned
It
I
bet.
I
maybe
elegant,
you
knocked
I
the
way
work
have
lived
could
was and
store
on
I
remember
in
move
I
would
based
must
the
tourists
want
Honolulu.
had
up
absolutely
a
seen
on
in
on
shoot
hotel
the
STURGEON.
on your
Honolulu.
in
quite
different
at the
walk
my
and
have;
for
an
ship
Pacific
San
the
there
down
came.
torpedoes
estate
notebook.
supper?”
family
S
the
by,
nice,
door
Diego.
Class.
a
it
that
halcyon
was
five-day
operating
had
and
Heights.
in
of
He
yes.
one
I
the
out?
a
a
She
we
saw
We
very,
also
We
and
man
But
beautiful
day
Waikiki
period.
used
11
subsequently could
would
was
cruises
that
owned
It
Joan
areas.
named
and
very
was
to
sort
of
asked
order
would
place
area,
envy
go,
just
tight
And
a
a
out.
Ikeda,
of
Japanese-American
different-
oh,
the
stuff.
lobsters
very
about,
if
it,
we’d
quarters.
come
was
I
to
a
loveliest
a
could
beautiful
wealthy.
operating
Japanese
And
come
moved
oh,
out
or
put
there
a
to
steaks,
Anyway
in
living
half
to
the
a
And
tennis
Friday
man,
areas,
net
Honolulu,
were
mile
ship
investment
or
you
he
up.
who
court
that
anything
afternoon.
as
lots
for
up had
I
could
far
asked
the
owned
supper,
was
of
a
but
so
enough
couple
other
heights
imagine.
we
your else.
no
if
When
The
I
spent
and
net
ships
of
off
So I went to NIMJTZ: NIMITZ: CIIERPAK: MMITZ: CHERPAK: beaches NIMITZ: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: And said, CHERPAK: could go back invited to no, speak Manila spear that to I No, Yes. So -our If The And A would to us the I we missionary. fishing And Okay. Sounds Oh, Yes. we’d Oh, An Oh, Great. could the to to no. Lords workday she States. weren’t use augment American? owner, how really. a guess then have was not. missionary and the Anointed great, I wonderful. came out one these sold was But about court swimming and So the at of a that when our from the Asiatic long, December sea- and real probably, those they from car there owner seven use you paradise. long and called in original Fleet. the it would less were escorted whatnot. afternoons, for until about 7, U.S. them. then And 1941. parties. five. in be one. November 12 Oh, Hawaii an a for me It Were net hour, was And how our and back up just families you we’d in it within in interesting. to 15th, was 1940-- the lovely. where in spend just.... morning. my Hawaii a to week; this get submarine them out elderly then? she’d But out of we Hawaii. on put division lady these were it up was, So gone. remote herself. got and Joan orders And
she
U
U
I]
U
U
U
I I U
I [1
Pearl NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CIJERPAK:
CHERPAK:
the
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
under
up
duty
we
end duty,
we
and
southern
came
got
of
Harbor.
that
any
attack.”
Luzon
decode
to
night.
in
shore
Manila
They
No,
Taiwan.
What’s
No,
It
Oh,
Well,
on
end
And
was
Yes,
Taiwan?
Oh,
Subic
and
Olongapo?
Adjacent?
--the
And
Oh,
no,
a
the the
yes.
And
had
leave,
of
message,
it
up
we
in
the
around
Quemoy
of
no,
night
southern
and
the-
so
was
Philippines?
a
a
Bay?
about
off,
were
course,
huge
island
week.
we
that
was
off
of
I
were
the
was
which
sent night.
maybe
December
base
of-
and
end
that
the
We
Taiwan.
other
trying
at
to
of
at
first
Matsu? got
the
They
said,
war.
patrol
eleven-thirty
the
the-
side,
Japanese, there
to
patrol
the
southern
“Executed
We
then
think
off
because
7th,
about
left
that.
got
outside
last
their
that
that
that
13
us
end
December
And
they
War
night
under
the
very
date
night,
of
of
we
anticipated
Plan
southwestern Chinese
of
the-
next
because
way
were
the I
1st.
Orange.
got
day
and
name
being
want
a
And
they’re
decoded
on
Japanese
made
of
The
patrol,
we
end
depth-charged and
the
us
didn’t
a
Japanese
of
they-
day
message.
port,
scout
ships
Taiwan,
on
ahead,
even
our
huge
around
and
put
first
get
two
They
like
and
naval
so
Pearl
patrol.
any
forth.
days the
their
I
had
had
base
shore
Harbor
northern
later.
to
And
the
at get [1
CIJERPAK: Oh, sure.
NIMITZ: So war started very rapidly. fl CHERPAK: Yes, of course, if you were in that area. Well, what was your reaction, your own personal reaction, to December 7th? U MMITZ: Well, uh.
CHERPAK: Shocked? Surprised?
NIMITZ: No particular alarm. U CIIERPAK: Did you see it coming?
NI1VEITZ:Yes, more or less. Because even in Manila that night, when we came back from this route around, the search around, the island we weren’tallowed to nest with each other. We had to anchor independently out. I’vealways been bemused by the fact that the Navy in Manila fully expected an attack at any moment. In contrast to what seemed to have been the position at Pearl Harbor.
CHERPAK: Right, complacent.
NIMITZ: I never could quite understood this either. But the Navy, Admiral Hart’sNavy, was fully [1 prepared. And that very next morning, December the 8th, we were in an anchorage where when we flooded,just let the submarine sink, we’ddrop to the bottom and we’dhave-- The water covered us, but we could use our periscopes and watch. And I remember standing on the bridge of the STURGEON watching these bombers coming over and bombing the Philippines and Cavite Naval Base. And then I actually saw the bombs, and said this is it for us. Down we went. Incidentally, that made submarines seem pretty damn good to me.
CHERPAK: You could dive down and escape, so to speak. Well, the war had started and you were now with the Asiatic Fleet in Manila.
NIMITZ: Right. And we were on patrol that night from Manila. We got our patrol orders from Admiral Fife, Commodore--Admiral Fife, who was in a motor whale boat rocking back and forth off of Mariveles Harbor. And it was really quite a rough evening off Corregidor, beyond Corregidor. And he handed us our patrol orders, and we were gone. I remember him yelling at my skipper, “Haveyou got everything you need?” And Bull would never admit to that, ever. So Bull U would yell, “No, we’reshort of toilet paper.” And Admiral Fife yelled back, “Use your files.” Anyway.... []
14 1 I I
CHERPAK:
running
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: mechanisms
deeper
they
magnetic
anything
NIMITZ:
terribly
CHERPAK: problem.
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: apparent
two
was thinking
control there.”
charges
destroyer. NIMITZ:
on
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
this
periscopes
might
going
than
And
enormous
room.
down
went
effective.
else,
Jesus
that
exploders.
And
just
to
So
Yes.
They
sonar. He
Bull No,
Skipper,
were
fall
apparently
off
there
Oh,
it
Yes,
if
I
Right,
Well,
Christ!
Oh,
Oh,
That
have
was
that
about
was
would
this
you
Anyway,
Wright.
corrected
on
in.
allowing
fleet
so
deeper
Bull
well,
around
the
was--
the
But,
that
well
And
is
set
that’s was
all
missing?
right,
that
This
Admiral
have
coming
skipper,
torpedo
it
he
their
Wright,
side
who
in
two
not
Halsey.
as
at time
Thinking,
that
fifty than
them
did
good.
is
addition
well
done
forty
I
been
of
depth
more
such
recollect
was--?
I
is out
very
Fife.
feet.
us.
Class
officer
could
the-
to
you
say,
no
another
feet
running
a
of
run
depth
I
charges
rapidly,
well,
to
short
And
good.
could
were
this
“Down
for of’25.
hear
the
backwards,
at
as
some
the
it charges
base
I
much
war.
skipper.
magnetic
at
The
hear
mustn’t
lucky
the
was
were
much
Anyway
all.
time
periscope,
at
exec
Hanging
carrier
goddamned
the
just-
15
as
They
Davao,
relatively
that
went
at
more
had
twelve
look
screws
say,
exploder
my
two
so were
they
we
off
nervous.
rapidly
brace
onto
torpedo
“For
and
you
mornings
and
had
on
go
ineffective
torpedoes
did
set
I
the
can
being
this
Christ’s
right
thirteen
for
could
a
to
than
miss,
perfect
data
cables
And
get
run
depth
side.
over
somewhat
later
we hear
underneath
computer.
under
and
were
sake,
wondering
and
at
And
that
charge.”
set-up
corrected
head.
the
we
the
they
fourteen
running
Skipper,
the
then
supported
time.
were
screws
I
unreliable,
on
weren’t was
ships
And
But
it,
it
whether
a
our
making
became
it carrier
feet
so
down
look
of
two
I
with
was
torpedo
remember
deep
one
the
deep,
that
depth
over
the
really
the
approach
in
these
or
of
that
the
depth
the roof NIMITZ: Yes, it was awful.
CHERPAK: Not being very effective in doing the job that was necessary. Well, you were in the STURGEON, I believe, through 1943. Is that correct?
MMITZ: Yes, I guess.
CHERPAK: ‘Thirty-nine through ‘43?
NIMITZ: I made six patrols on her.
CHERPAK: And were these all out of it Manila?
NIMITZ: No, no. U CHERPAK: Where? Did you move?
NIMITZ: Sweetie, the first one was out of Manila.
CHERPAK: Right, right, exactly.
NIMITZ: And then they.-
CHERPAK: Where did you go?
NIMITZ: And then we ended up in Fremantle.
CHERPAK: Oh, Australia.
NIMITZ: Fremantle. And there we made, I don’tknow, anyway some patrols out of Fremantle. And then at the time of Guadalcanal, we went around the southern end of Australia and operated out of Brisbane in the Guadalcanal-Shortland area. And then finally back to Perth.
CHERPAK: So you were based in Australia.
NIMITZ: Yes.
CIIERPAK: Now were these missions successful?
NIMITZ: Well, the patrols--
16
knew
So
the
illuminated boat.
and the
extricate they
quite
town
remember
and night
NIMITZ:
stop
where
CHERPAK: commander
rescue
NIMITZ: Lockwood?
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
learn CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
sank
CHERPAK:
But
anyway,
damnedest
super
so
every
could--
in
And
a
on
that something
before
not
anyway,
I
the
way
various
mission
met
the
them.
structure.
to
if
a
other
whether
STURGEON
Yes,
we Oh,
on
up. Set
Yes.
gunner’s
Yes,
we
pay
south
We
him. of
Surabaja
You
thing
a Or
Right.
Oh,
Or
because
the
There
Dutch
got
And them
stopped
damned yes.
near
any
had
stage.
this
all
We
the
I
coast
set
the
submarines
to
met
it
They
that’s
were
the
because
in
Yes,
attention
patrols
mate
a
is
could
at
was
the
were the
East
fell. them
boat.
patrols,
a
shortly,
time.
him
zero
we
this
called
thing,
went
bay
asked
river,
Java
also
he
going
good.
and
The
Indies
mine
could have
a
That
10
were
goddamned
was
and
it
off
couple
to
up
involved
I
Tjilatjap,
was and
in
next
we degrees
Sea.
ultimately,
I
us
took
on
that
the
That’s
done
let
fields
should
out
to
fleet
go
the
ports
all
to
went
took
patrol
constant
near
them
morning
depth
Can
through
deemed
river
there
see
of
it
Pacific
much
class
about
and
and
times
higher.
what
in
them
up
where
engine, the
if
say.
you
run.
or
there
settings.
for
after
sort
we
went
the
so
happened
edge better
coming
lightning
at
the
it
seven
successful.
down in
comment
I
a
forth.
could
river,
we the
was
wondered.
of
were
we
while,
Did
Pearl
17
it mine
to
of
a
wouldn’t
picked with
Old
see left
or
in
to
search
the
And
back,
you
go
and
a
to
and
passing
eight
Jap
field,
Fremantle.
it
group
if
Man’s
Manila,
up
better
mine
on
have
seems
We
we
ever
we
the
up,
hands.
thunder,
they
this
that?
miles
and
start
the
found
could
got
STURGEON
of
field
I
headquarters.
boats,
torpedoes.
back
have
river
don’t
ordered to
all
mines
RAF
abortive,
a
again.
And
deep
me,
And
Combat
of
and
find
constant,
this
through
a
which
diesel
know,
us
aviators’
chance
before
we
were
on
then
off
It
bay
the
these
tried
Nonetheless,
was
went
our
I
the
boats,
led Star.
was
STURGEON
lots
on
way
But
there.
we
guess,
you
he
people.
to,
a
to
next
entrance
camp
the
to
around
hoisted
very
in
of
I
became
In
below
you
meet
felt
Tjilatjap,
that
can’t
people,
Surabaja
eastern
patrol, other
search
balky
and
know,
like
And
sat
Admiral
we
remember
Surabaja
us,
to
out
words
try
up
you
to
this
I
side began
nurses
it
thing.
and and
so
this
don’t
the
we’d
see
to
was
under
were
it
river
of
we
we
if
was
to
to
it, a
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
submarine.
CIIERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
out,
CIIERPAK: all
cable
that
submarine
and finally
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: doing?”
thundering
than
CHERPAK: still the
kinds
malaria water,
this
western
the
trip
it
couldn’t
shooting
would
would
of
damn
but
time
lifting
to
or
remains,
we
me,
and
been
The
I
But
Right
I
And
and
I
side
guess. be
was
have
near see
was
The
And
There
it
didn’t
Oh,
gear.
Oh,
Oh,
Oh.
was
lowered
there
pushed
BLUEFISH.
lightning.
into
overrun.
a
the
of
right
at
just
ran
but
voice,
easily
BLUEFISH.
heavens!
for
so
you’re
it,
that
And
the
want
STURGEON
the
it
it
into
no
you
a
pulling
at
was.
heaven’s
down
was,
submarine.
it
little
we
air,
just
killed
lo
bodies,
the
Then
into
to
The
them.
were
still
and
then
I
stop
right. boat.
cove.
like
through just
itself
the
timing
I
one
in
behold,
hoisted
got
Anyway, right
no
sake
it
right
cradle
shot
the
anywhere,
And
So
or No,
so
out.
nothing.
back
run
a
both
Pacific
that
and
nearby?
you
it
up
hole,
the
but
And the
the
and
so
in
out.
there,
the
I
you
finished
of
hook
you
it
gunner’s
boat could
the
And
unhooked
had
and
I
went
us.
great
and
Hoping.
tell
couldn’t
boat,
see
said,
18
out
fell
that
then
they,
jump
you
you,
SSSHHH
thing
they
that
mate
and
off
and
thing “Chester,
it’s
When
are
it
the
it
off.
the
could
see
swung
about
mission.
turned
was
we
spread
would
hook
about
done
And
cable.
it.
came
right
I
so
hear
figured
that, for
it
out,
that
that
out
stonny.
run
this
to
in
Well,
You
into
Christ’s
out.
my
the
and
had
be
over
the
held
when
camp
I’d
the
screws
And
know,
transferred
really
boat
it’s
a
all
I
gone
its
this
took
bolt
water.
sake,
the
was
ultimately
the
late
cradle
around
big amazing
the
as
boat
and
as
a
there,
timing,
what
‘42,
flare
I
far
way
circular
came
stuff
on
was
to
in
as
I
obviously
are
and
the
died
they
guess,
thing
another
the
it
I
halfway
put
out.
ought
you
was
iron
rather
shallow
made
of
in.
about
We
‘43?
still
ring
And
to,
all
a
I
n
U
El
El
I fl
I
I I -
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: made
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
grandfather’s
NIMITZ:
somebody,
CHERPAK: wonderful
NIMITZ: CHERPAK: MMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
called
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
two
it
then.
patrols
train
Fremantle.
And
as
A
It
EB,
Probably.
I
I
Yes.
or
was
was
was
compartment
soon
Oh,
Where
It
After,
Right.
Old
Electric
Oh,
At
And
something,
ride.
Electric
then
wasn’t
on
still the
a
what
Fremantle.
EB.
as
still
surely
where
her
the
My
yes,
exec.
we
And
were
a
General
Boat?
lieutenant.
a
rank
as
Boat
BLUEFISH
God,
arrived
service
lieutenant.
routine
it
exec,
was
so
as
you
was
Company.
were
big
we
those
Dynamics
that
home
two
in
being
in
had
thing.
as
you
New
the
were
this
went being
or
an
ported
built
three.
now,
Pacific.
Joan
on
London,
automobile.
the
then.
back
outfitted
the
in
days
and
may
I
in
New
don’t
train,
to
19
Australia
I
turned
Australia.
of
I
went
London.
ask?
remember.
and
decent
And
I
swear.
across
a
what
Were
anyway
car
on
trains.
And
General
And
over
the
country
part
you
it
it
it
BLUEFISH?
to
was
was
had
did
promoted?
us,
Dynamics,
by
very
us
you
a
some
train.
real
and
successful,
play
vacation
friend
one
It
whatever
was
in
child.
its
of
the
for
my
I
outfitting?
guess,
And
most
we
me. 1
patrols. we
CIIERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CRERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
get
there.
How
No,
Yes.
Because
Yes,
Oh,
Yes,
Both
Oh,
Yes.
Yes.
long
Oh,
Was
Oh,
Oh, Did
And Did
Did
Were And
I
no
yes,
he
I
And
saw
patrols
think
okay,
later.
so your
I
you you
were
pinned
that
when
you
I
very.
see.
these
him
was
then
you
sink
get
I
were
the made
father
you
when
probably
at
on
were
stopped
I
a
patrols
any
was
another
only
Silver
any
my
on
very
a
we
award
these
commendations
taken
the
couple
way
ships?
time
got
successful.
get
Star
successful?
at
really
BLUEFISH?
back
Pearl awarded?
a
off.
there.
you
any
on
Silver
of
fateful
me
to
patrols
saw
of
Harbor.
the
We’re
them?
for
Star
20
him
Were
BLUEFISH,
for
evening
the
you
for
on
during
this
trip
each
they
said
the
personally
into
later
BLUEFISH
of
on
the
awarded
passing
Tjilatjap.
them.
in
that
war?
the
as
war.
and
through
at
exec.
now
the
as
I’ll
a
tell
time
and
Pearl.
ship?
you
or
you
about
later?
made
it
when
your
fl I
great
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: they
business.
NIMITZ:
course
every
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CITERPAK:
NIMITZ:
studied
to
stubborn.
CHERPAK:
instrumental
Ralph
fixed Lockwood,
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
torpedo NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
change.
premature
unknown
torpedo
the
they
Christy,
this.
problem.
This
depth
But
My
And
They
Yes,
Sure,
Yes,
ran
I
But
Well,
because
have
in
shot
Right.
I
is But
Should
Well,
And
Oh,
mysteries. father
Okay.
or
a
on,
can’t
the thing
we
they
yes.
before
and
never
submariner.
somebody
didn’t
I
to
that
they
ba,
can’t
design
okay.
finally
an
they
couldn’t a
stand
took
point
said,
in
phobiac.
have
ba,
did.
had
egomaniac.
the
they the
didn’t.
really
simply
We
me
ba,
of
decided
somebody out
“You
days
been
No,
Asiatic
should
overridden
and
the
And
off
finally
whether
somebody
that
remember,
Anyway,
it
of
know
fired--and
abandoned
exploder
the
so
was
Ralph
the
that
computers--to
Fleet
have.
forth
BLUEFISH
decided
who
just
they
torpedo
I
this
can
his
under
Christy
Christy
and
override
somehow
and
the
is
we
were
is
the
stand
decision.
dumb
on
just--it
so
most
all
could--by
problem
MacArthur,
magnetic
21
a
on.
they
was
just
to
other
run
modification
anybody
and
him?
awful
put
And
that’s
would
hung
an
all
at
aspects
stubborn.”
me
had
high
ordnance
this
both
so
exploder.
thing.
a
onto
who’s
with
as
little
remain
we been
data.
and
forces
was
of
of really--
these
Anyway,
this
bit
solved
low
dumb.
torpedo
the PG
our
with
And
vague.
ordnance
(Pacific
speed,
things.
circuit
officer
area.
That
I
me in
they
this can
design
the
Our
forever
was
what
that
and
who
So,
had
stand
guy
PG
Pacific
commander
the
as
would
and
Atlantic).
discovered
range,
had
to
and
I
anybody
as
most
try
say,
wasn’t
Fleet
been
I
one
make analyzed
to
and
we
terrible
solve
of
What
very
under
about
who’s
was
did
and
the
them the II less sensitive. It turned out they were very sensitive on east- west courses--would make them less U sensitive so they should not premature. And, simultaneously, in order to, with our tongue in our cheek, so to speak, take care of in case they did. Heretofore, the torpedoes armed mechanically at 400 yards. So that if they prematured, they were only 400 yards ahead, and that’sawful close. And they would wreck your torpedo room doors and so forth. And so we fixed it so they could not arm until they had been 800 yards, so we did both things. Now Admiral Christy had twenty-six torpedoes fixed, actually fifty-two torpedoes fixed the way we asked him.
CHERPAK: Yes. [I NIMITZ: And he put me in command of my first command, the only command I had, the HADDO. U CHERPAK: That you had of a sub.
MMITZ: And he put another very experienced submariner, skipper, in command who already was in command; he gave him the other twenty-six. And, incidentally, Christy himself went to sea with that guy to see-- [] CIIERPAK: If they worked.
NIMITZ: Yes. Well, I was very ambitious to make a name for myself. So on my first patrol we passed through Lombok Strait into the Flores Sea; and there was, in the early morning, was a huge submarine tender with four destroyers.
CHERPAK: Let me just turn it over. [Change to Side B of Tapel
NIMITZ: And there was this big submarine tender with four destroyers and aircraft coming in from the east headed toward Surabaja. And I determined we were going to get that ship. We surfaced and ran away from it so that we could get out far enough so that the aircraft wouldn’tdrive us crazy, and, ultimately, got ahead of it, and it was zigzagging. And I finally got myself in a position 2500 yards on its port bow for a perfect setup. And as the destroyer on its port bow passed overhead without detecting us, put up the scope, and I said, “We’llsaw this boat off at the water line.” And I fired six torpedoes so that it couldn’tpossibly fail; and we had six prematures, 400 yards off our bows, just nearly killed us.
CHERPAK: Right. That’s what wasn’t supposed to happen.
MMITZ: And couldn’tmechanically happen. Well, I’vealwaysjust come to the conclusion that I the vacuum tubes were just breaking in some way and short-circuiting. But anyway....
CILERPAK: So those were the ones you had analyzed and fixed.
22 1 I I
CHERPAK:
go.
absolute
everything torpedo
on rods,
that the
torpedoes
said,
simply
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
of
the
forth. board,
escorts,
said,
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
impact
them
water.
so
side.
“Set
and
“That’s
And
bad
corrected
I
hit
lap
at we
have
it
I
all
would through
And
else
was
the was
a
was
They
it
Oh,
Never
Well,
fit.
Yes.
spent
Yes,
tanker,
the
the
turned
Oh.
destroyed
And
But
side
So
Oh,
that’s
about
so
Supposedly,
the
So
held
sure.
depths
upset
the
end
have
So
those
so
you
the
outraged!
used
nets,
that
you
exploder
of
wow.
how
and
out
we
settings
we
the
locked
of
these
rest
a
a
never
and
if
were
it
on
and
did
ship,
that.”
spent
contact
that
never
my
way,
they
did
they
again.
of
zero.”
release
goddamned
lire
that
by
magnetic
And
mechanisms--not
the
that
the
yes.
on
they
just
the
used
and
the
I
didn’t
did
a
took
exploder.
the
torpedoes
other
determined
ones
spring-loaded
firing
day
I
That
kept
rest
they
work
solve
this,
sent
it
depth
go
them
again?
removing
we
of
exploders.”
boat
meant
going
worked
pins
right torpedoes,
a
and
that,
out? that
message.
analyzed
setter.
Well,
over
had
again?
the
that
they
then,
off.
day,
and
they
just
fine
ring, to
similar
firing
the
23
by
rode
But
were
that
the
after
And
the were
they
and
My
the
that
magnetic
from
a
then
on
pins
side.
was
thing
big
magnetic--the
running
message
experiences.
didn’t
fixed.
we’d
rode
time
running
a
then
we
ring.
little
would
the
I
would
took
gotten
on
we
exploders
ever
set
on.
end
ten
But
chassis
these
simply
probably
in
them
them
go
And
want
of
to
reset
the
away
that
It
up
the
contact
rods
twelve
fired
for
Southwest
they
topside,
that
said,
from
to
and
spring-loaded
itself
magnetic
from
two
zero
see
going
something
went
found
go
feet
“Back
exploder the
and
one
or
these
depth
up.
just
up torpedoes
three
deep.
up
Pacific
then
out,
again.
exploder.
But
to
threw
in
on
goddamned
anyway.
the
a
ring
when
feet
like
you
it
like
So
two
lap
couldn’t
And
had
drawing
them
we
under
know,
would
eighteen
we
all
fit,
smooth
the
fired
so
I
had.
an just
over I MMITZ: MMITZ: CIIERPAK: done out NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: CIIERPAK: made when of then would NIMITZ: And station. CHERPAK: able finally, different procurement. them regular cemented ever it. so to they’d--Well, they had by And against the a they take provide we torpedo, intervals the his way war gave it it, Not were And got And No, Yes, When And, a operating was head and 21-inch a Now, in began, Right, No, Well, So Oh, Oh, some cliff the by enough they the not just that, we an painted to built presumably, they the chopped job first the not wow. oh, be air way or and by did never they big brains we that’s or right. exercise forces. torpedoes--ninety goddamned sure anything to flask by didn’t there the off torpedoes; practice I a we yellow really sloppy Westinghouse. think did slightly the fired off they’re the they’d in licked carries is to do engineers. practice there, head like reason knew that a is them loose so runs; remove practice difference. just let larger still we’re torpedo that you Christy 3,000 that had and the we against no to but insanity. working. could with was torpedo reached just to ingot this going Westinghouse they ingot any lap pounds they runs the should station. we fits. them weren’t day stresses find a were of of dozen. to didn’t war took with This experience, the 24 people steel, steel They need of the have--has before, convinced, shot. end air those going have or having them? thing. But age, torpedoes and worked just pressure strains. want of They everything warheads, parts to didn’t bore for its bought Listen, while permeated all have to run, ten you never fine Anyhow out these it test and like they, out years, it it know, enough sheet the from of their was would fired it’s they was they weapons, to the torpedo armed somewhere? tremendous make twelve when then steel, never nuclear you’re had bad exploder, a are torpedoes. then war going on. about exerciser this forces the and punished, situation never years not shot blow weapons But war air rolled machined going out that pressure. in in in having The flask. now the came, peacetime. heads. a of a was totally it nobody water torpedo way to style. at all up, And be fired so and, this They them they bad out is
I
[1
o
U
0
u
[1
I
I
I
here,
and
anyway
washed
nothing
beautiful
their
waters,
NIMITZ:
China
CHERPAK:
wasn’t
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
sink
CHERPAK:
days,
So
were,
people
and
guess
NIMITZ:
all?
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
something
we
I’d
way
it
in
these
Sea.
obviously,
it
anything.
says
know
weren’t
almost
the in
and
on
the
was,
weather.
through
the
the
They
Oh,
last
I
Well,
patrol
we
IIADDO
let
Oh,
First
Well,
don’t
we
may
Philippines.
You
went
radar.
Do
Yes,
the forgotten
The
using
The
sank
patrol,
Right,
yes,
yes.
began
sank
patrol
had
not
them.
We craft
you
remember.
anyhow
have
crew
were
something
IIADDO,
haywire.
we
HADDO?
17,000 I
There
the
many.
been
with
five
was
never
which
right,
remember
never
to
were
of
been
come
So
it.
dangerous
just
wonder
And
the
destroyers
looking
that
made
But
was
the
we
some-odd
That
saw
out yes,
was, that
left
I
out
1-LADDO.
topside
right.
went
don’t
HADDO? was
I’ve
anyway,
did
nothing
in
a
known
the
first
first
definitely.
scouting,
if
I
if
thing.
at
the
got
noticed
go
ground, my
the
into
remember.
you
area
Did
during
some
and
patrol....
patrol,
tons.
haywire.
south,
all
experience
Japanese,
around;
whatever
to
them
I
got
you
right
they’d
the
used
the
papers
the
That
these
I
that.
We
any
we
which
guess.
details
engage
ourselves.
enemy,
at
other
to
25
My
there
Do
swim
were
doesn’t
have
That’s
the
stars
miles
who
flood
it
the
on
second
was,
you
is
day
beach
of
was
other
the....
ordered in
because,
known
in
knew
to
for
and
it
what’s
the
mean
know
any
And,
reading
the the
test.
because
nobody
that?
patrol
where
ship
day.
miles
pre-arranged
a
superstructure.
rescue
as
to
anything.
lot
the God,
how
while
down
I
the
try
it,
more
was
see
and
we
in
who
key.
I’ve
to
it
dangerous
many
missions
a
as
we
were
miles
was
in
so separate
effect
could
than
got
part
A
an
sat
that
signals
just
destroyer
Japanese
to
the
area
It
of
we
and
of
the
surprise
the
pick
was
on
reefs,
the
part
ground
patrol
a
did
where
rescue
watched
patrol
decks
and
the
just
most
these
about of
is
and
ships
HADDO
report
precautions
us.
the
2,000
awful,
in
there
report,
of
were
lovely,
people
wending
Well,
the
for
those
report
some
you
right
just
tons
South three
I
at
up. did U CHERPAK: Right.
NIMITZ: Well, and we got a Navy unit commendation for that patrol. And I guess that’show I got U a Navy Cross for that patrol. And I think, I’vealways had the feeling, that as soon as-- Well, I noticed when I came back in from that patrol, it seemed to be-- I was immediately relieved of the 1-IADDO.And I sensed that Admiral Christy had always, and maybe the Navy Department had always sort of planned, that when I’dhad a really bang-up patrol, then they’dtake me off, and ease my Old Man’sworries. I never did know. But, in any case, I was ordered--this was late 1944--Iwas ordered back to submarine school.
CHERPAK: Oh, okay. Well, you mentioned that you did have a fateful meeting with your father during the war. [1
NTMITZ: Oh, yes, yes.
CHERPAK: And I want you to comment on that. Is it around this time frame?
NIlflTZ: Yes, yes. Because when I was taken off the HADDO, I was sent back. And I went back through Pearl, and it was the only night I ever spent there. I think I did once earlier when I came off the STURGEON, I’dbeen through there. But at dinner that night, I noticed Admiral McMorris, Admiral Spruance, and my father and the doctor--I can’tremember, Doctor Anderson, I think his name was. But anyway they were all nervous as cats at supper. And I finally said, “What’s everybodyagitated about?” It turned out that they wondered where, they were sitting there, wondering where Task Force 34 was. Now, Task Force 34 was all of the heavy battleships that were assigned to Admiral Halsey in the Third Fleet. And Admiral Halsey was supposed to be supporting the landings at Leyte Gulf and losing no opportunity to destroy major enemy forces. The reason I know these is because, finally, I said, “Gee, Admiral, what’severybody so upset about?” Well, it turned out, where is Task Force 34? I thought to myself, Jesus Christ! I was in a wolf pack on my last thing, and we’dno more do something without letting our boss know....
CHERPAK: Oh, right.
NIMITZ: And to me, I said, “Well, Jesus Christ! Don’twe have a radio?”
CHERPAK: Communications, right.
NIMITZ: Why don’twe ask them? And their attitude was they hated to interfere with the forces underway because they felt that they didn’twant the people to think people were looking over their shoulder. But anyway....
CIIERPAK: The Japanese might they have been listening to radio intercepts?
26 1 I I
CHERPAK:
hadn’t-
realized
message, pad
was
Force
them
NIMITZ:
had
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
having
hundred
CIIERPAK: never
immediately NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
of
Halsey through
was
Gulf. Plan,
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
errors,
it
so fled
to
to
out.
34?”
make
He
S-H-O,
short,
heard
come
guard
that away
north
transports
San
he
had
I
And
But,
Task
Why can
They
Because
took
Oh,
it
he What?
the
attacked
Bernardino
about
out
from
Turned
no
had
San
and
Thirty-four.
with
Right,
Oh,
Right.
just
it
Would
tell
and
sure,
Force
communications wasn’t
was,
carriers,
his
expected
of
a
whatnot.
Bernardino
San
you.
loaded
I
pulled Task
the
Japan
suicidal
have
Kurita
cap
see.
but
right.
by
“All
back.
34
two
the
Bernardino
Halsey
off,
Force-
aircraft.
Straits,
you
just
who
along
the
with
with
him
the
Japanese
carriers
was
He
plan
and
seen
greatest big--two
Straits?
cares,
world
supporting
finally
to
two
men
with
supposed
and
threw
where
And
be
officer
them,
Straits
pulling
of
and
down
who
lost.
wants
the
have
boner
turned
he
Well,
our
stupendous
it
Admiral
so
rest
put
it’s
thought,
on
But,
cares.
to
so
the
carriers.
to
been
out
to
forth,
the
been
anyway,
that
be
some
that
of
away.
Leyte
know.”
landings
well,
from
a
27
us,
The
deck
listening
had
Kurita
suicide
Kurita
so
written
Christ,
dummy
None
Japanese
and
He
Gulf
he
you
Japan,
Japanese
ever
they
and
And
got
at could
he
was
could
could
to
mission.
of
jumped up
all
Leyte
been
finally
to
didn’t
it
into
words
off
destroy
them
to
many
the
ships,
says
radio
have
had
go
of
see
come
pulled.
the
Gulf?
carriers
need
sent
had
that
Luzon,
on
on
at
a,
times.
the
gone
plus
Sea
the intercepts?
the
I
down.
it.
up
any
a
those.
when
think
In
risks
And
attacking
of
message,
But
others.
beginning
into
from
of
the
But off
aircraft.
Samar
Halsey
Now
he were
anyhow
they
Halsey
meantime,
Why
Leyte
of
because
Tawi
must
And
Northern
called
forces
and
terrible.
that
“Where
didn’t
But
and
are
Gulf
got
Tawi,
Admiral
have
if
was
was
the
here,
Kurita
to
the
this
it
Halsey,
at
he
and
lure
Luzon,
their
is
suddenly
message
and
Leyte
a
end
leave
and
Task
comedy
sunk
Ozawa
come
to
Sho
I’ll a NIMITZ:
NIMJ.TZ: CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK: happened.
from CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ: CIIERPAK: there?
NIMITZ:
fire CHERPAK:
control
the
HADDO?
Turned
--to
So,
Yes.
No. Oh,
I
Yes, Yes.
I
and
suspect
was
How
Disasters,
Oh,
So
He
Interfere
Well,
And
Oh,
I
one
no,
approach
was
actually
assigned
do
didn’t
back
that
no,
okay. of
close.
you
you you Admiral there Or
the
no.
was,
it
said
do
with
yes.
really.
1945,
had think
And greatest
tactics
would
that
as
you
yes,
you
the
Christy
Navy
enough
night.
were
I
your
think--
guess
and
have
head
very
were
naval
policy
you
that
father just
been.
wartime
of
I
fateful,
sent
disasters.
got
the
assigned
sort
did.
in
there.
Just
had,
to
Torpedo
of
that
gosh.
the
service.
stuff
think
28
do
regard.
to
sub
you
Well,
teach?
and
and
of
school
that,
think
Gunnery
prospective
just
how
in
he
luck
New
interceded close
Department.
on
commanding
London
his
we
part came-
to
in
We
that
remove
1944,
officers
taught
nothing
back
you
torpedo
how
to
fl
[.1
I [1 []
think,
their
NIMITZ:
that
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
situation,
CHERPAK:
Hillary
here,
too,
blockade,
the
that
NIMJTZ:
celebrate
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
MMITZ:
war?
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
submarine,
very
were
make
SARDA
Japanese
had
they
up.
shipping
I
as best
wonderful
So
know
torpedo
climbed
many
Do
them
had
and
you
being
we’d
there
that,
You
And
I
Yes.
Right.
you
Yes.
in
why
don’t
couldn’t
to
we’re
couldn’t
Right,
cold. were
It’s
warships
VJ
that
And
Oh, attacks.
Oh,
have
bet.
were
or
built
end
Mt.
its
think
at
the
there, remember
Day.
did
overpowering
she
the
going
okay.
I’m was
at
You the
Everest. it
starved
in
on,
right.
atomic
move
by
provide
the
you?
the
school.
had
And
sure
Portsmouth,
What
as
war
this
bet.
who
right.
using
to
Well,
the
sub
sub
a
And
around
I
my
live
them
bomb
Because
ended
after
huge
having
The
had
were
rest
it.
was
A
school
the
service
father
can
with
They I
lot
desire
all
Japanese
out.
of
conning
was
the
atomic
got
your
those
the
on
New
any of
I
absolutely
the
that
it’s
just
felt in
It
war?
can’t
used.
best
August fun.
contributed
going
to
was
particular
Navy
reaction
‘45.
there;
islands.
Hampshire.
for
the
bomb.
see
ask
tower
were
And
torpedo
provide
It
just
the
to
same
what
did.
got
you
they
15,
brilliant
29
ask
then
really
rest
too
Because
The
and
to
used
reaction.
1945.
a
way:
it
data
that
had
to
you
the
bad.
of
couple
I
special
did.
submarines
And
running
the
went
for
time.
young
stuff
it.
computer
end
That
that
And
in
But
winning
she
the
I
from
the
of
fire
do
of
by
question.
we
anyway
I
officers
was
same
out
questions
the
know,
first
know
air.
control
could
had
that
operators
of
sort
war,
of
And
reason
place,
everything
job
absolutely,
that’s that
just
the
under
of
have,
I’m
and
the
and
to
toward
an
war
I
as
it
that
just
was
command
glad
and
submarines
sonar
was me.
experimental
within
sure
how
greatly?
Sir
the
and very
so
and
They
you
apparent
as
the
equipment.
did
Edmund
forth.
tragedy
a
that’s
I’m
now
disappointed
brought
year,
end
just
of
you
sank,
sitting
the
And
aircraft,
‘cause
to
of
took
with
of
USS
me
the
I
they
the
the a NIMITZ: CHERPAK: priority And NIMITZ: CHERPAK: MMITZ: CHERPAK: successful CIIERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ: little NIMITZ: CHERPAK: CITERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: SARDA, CHERPAK: underwater CHERPAK: Oceanographic that’s sooner. targets. a why against But When Oh, Yes, Yes, That Portsmouth, It Yes. submarine. sound But operated Well, Oh, Well, Oh, Did Yes. Well, And And we for yes, Institute you it was as I laboratory, might went I you that they had merchant where were long sure see. that’s despite couldn’t the terrible. out last the have were after yes. to And war we as have you of do great. did HADDO patrol the all the New any even them. was ended which destroyed, experiments. the and ended it atomic got misfired patrol reaction I CO that escort London. navy was so And is and on the use of bomb in being told, that during war they shipping. there. it? New it’s the to torpedoes to We And last having a “No, was 1946 got DE’s. ouffitted the little London. did those patrol, we 30 so being death sir, and some sooner him. they spent and no two you we in so And of couldn’t longer. real all an Portsmouth, much had years? Roosevelt had said they awful the hairy always we-- Destroyers put you problems, get were lot things It on escorts. were in might of had being it, New April time with I tankers in don’t are we have used Hampshire? command doing of it. our were know. ‘45? But by ended as primary work our Woods still I’m the of first now very for the target.” war Hole the a a
11
fl
I
I
[1
U
I)
I
U I retired trustee of Woods Hole.
CHERPAK: Oh, you are? When you say you did some hairy things with it, like what, experimental?
NIMITZ: Well, this guy would say, “Now, listen, Chester, I’dlike to circle another submarine, staying exactly 200 yards away from him submerged.”
CHERPAK: Oh.
NIMITZ: Well, let me tell you that’squite a maneuvering problem. Because as you start to turn back toward him, he’scoming toward you very rapidly. And you’reboth at the same depth, and it’s real hairy. But we did that for days on end, that kind of stuff.
CHERPAK: Oh, and what was that really supposed to prove? That you could maneuver well?
NIMITZ: No, no. We were testing various underwater telephone and acoustic devices.
CHERPAK: Oh, I see.
NIMJTZ: He was using, wanted to be at various ranges from it and so forth. They were just testing underwater propagation properties and so forth.
CIIERPAK: Oh, I see.
NIMITZ: But the SARDA still won a battle efficiencypennant as being the most battle-ready submarine in the submarine force.
CHERPAK: Well, that’s quite an honor.
NIMITZ: It was wonderful. I was very experienced, and we had a very experienced crew.
CHERPAK: Oh, that’s good.
MMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: So your crews were excellent throughout?
NIMITZ: Absolutely.
CHERPAK: And how many usually were on a wartime sub or on the SARDA?
31 determines NIMITZ: area, NIMITZ: going C11ERPAK: NIMITZ: and MMITZ: CHERPAK: CHERPAK: frame? NIMITZ: were undertook. couple CHERPAK: NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: was CHERPAK: NIMJTZ: original CHERPAK: for so I the-- officers, really the we you that of Other executive NROTC have years doing way acted how I We Yes, No, Yes. The And Well, could six to Right. Baker Oh, Almost To So Yes, and than have no. University many as or that with have after at campuses; I you California, officer make well, a was seven. build I Cal he professor to these you went or I three the people were eighty was got have ordered Berkeley? whatever? that’s a up only of SARDA. from watch patrols there, of people there. the out the my three you California, people have at of a there the crew. naval of father at Berkeley? sizable quarter naval need. people Right. to and the one the SARDA, Did steer, as on And ROTC had submarine end science testing of And what anything and a number, yes. for and submarine. then been one of you sonar, statcon unit I they the so think, acoustic for eveiy there’s there. 32 say, forth. first on call else most service we bill that to- eight now year, as some outstanding have So We of devices for an campus. you all temporarily the hours. ended my you associate to people, right, next three were professor right with up Berkeley year. we’re happen people like out with now professor the at the And of of underway maneuvers a and that New was for naval crew chief during it say radioing. of was point. one London of cook. science naval that’s in seventy-two a of that terrible that the And the what science. You time died. patrol for seven you what keep time a And I
U
[1 u
fl
[1
I
I 11 CHERPAK: For the Navy?
NIMITZ: For the military on campuses. The campuses--this one, in particular, we used to call it the “LittleRed Schoolhouse.”It was the University of California. It had a marvelous president, Robert Gordon Sproull; there was nothing communist about him. But the students really were terrible.
CHERPAK: Oh, very left wing?
NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: And this is right after the war?
NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: More or less?
NIMITZ: Yes. But our naval unit was wonderful. We ended up with president of, or head of or captain of most of the teams and fraternities and so forth. And that did us a great service.
CHERPAK: Did you enjoy this teaching at ROTC?
NIMITZ: Yes, mind you I couldn’thave stood it for more than one session. I couldn’tteach the same subject again for another course. But, yes, everything was different, and it was something different, compared to anything I’ddone before.
CHERPAK: Oh, really, yes, exactly.
NIMITZ: And the University was having a loyalty oath controversy, where professors were being told they either took a loyalty oath or they were out. And, oh, it was the damnedest agitation.
CIIERPAK: It must have caused-
NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: —quite a stir for doing that. But anyway, so—
NIMITZ: From there I went to-
CHERPAK: You went to destroyers, I believe.
33 NIMITZ:
Staff
NIMITZ: CHERPAK: Armed
summer. me York,
you’re
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
makeup. Coast, so,
down
because
College
to
on
Forces
that’s
stay
We
vacation?
in
And
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
And
Back.
Because
I’m Bronxville
Yes.
I
we’d
bought
with or
it,
know
In
Staff Was
Okay.
Back
Why
I Oh,
So,
Out
trying some well,
this but
submitted I
‘50,
Norfolk,
had
come
close
it
I Go
this College
the what
to
moving
a
yes. you they did
wasn’t
see.
from
such
just
horse to
San
back
saying,
Korean
friends
from
1950
they think.
go. I
Yes. needed
sold
I
was
a there thing.
Diego.
didn’t think.
for
resignation
from to
your
the
yet?
make
The
a trying “Jesus
San
of
War,
the
I
house
University
skippers.
went
pillar
ours,
start
choice.
stay Navy Diego
you
and,
to
Christ!
till
in
to
and
to
in
to think
switch
was
Coronado, the incidentally,
It
and
post
Welifleet.
late
the
party,
of
was
Why East
of
Navy.
kind
recommission
September
California.
had
to
I
an
34
and
Coast
said
don’t
destroyers?
finally
of
assignment?
so
Joan
so
in
we
we’d
anyway.
you
where
forth.
a
or
I and
were
gotten
downturn
know,
sold
say something.
the
I
And
I
finished went
where
was destroyer
to a
while
house
be
then
down going
at
over
you’re
So with
we
the
that
in
O’BRIEN.”
to
to we
sensitized
Coronado. were
Navy
California,
going
point. Bronxville,
go
had
to
back
caught
this
Armed
to
in
be
on
That
long,
and
my
when
up the New
Forces
wasn’t
with the
long
East
U 0 ii
LI
L
I r U []
U I I
CIIERPAK:
hits
you
was
as
MMITZ:
have
CHERPAK:
surrounded Korea.
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
to
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
beautiful
CHERPAK: kamikazes;
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: back
honored
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
we
come
because
felt
wonderful.
to
to
went
Oh,
get
you
San
back
to
ship.
And
underway
around.
Well,
we
Yes.
by Oh,
Oh,
know
Yes,
were
Yes.
you
she
Diego.
Yes,
either.
Oh,
And
Oh,
360
So,
Oh,
had
And
But Oh,
You’d
it yes.
was
we
were
I
And
right
we
was
that
was.
it
I
degrees
you
I’ll
lots
I badly
gosh.
would
you
how
So
you
see.
And
wasn’t a
used
It
got
every
turning
I
see
I’m
wreck.
a
say. on
was
I
of
And
got
oversaw
happy
did,
did
were
the
long
my
damaged
So
them,
guns
to
the
action.
execute
this
in
really
So
few
a it
that.
ship
go
they
back
crew
their
first
so
did
very
was
going
you
ship,
poking
goddamned
up
minutes,
and
fast
all
underway
And
something.
had
that
regular
were
and in
“war
a
territory.
at
were
happy
but
then
the
real,
going
to
Nomandy,
‘50.
we
to
out
man
take,
be
it
dance,” all
repairs
under
every
rapid
job
do
spent You
was
officer
of
CO
ship?
around.
ex-reservists
finally,
dispatch
the
a
do
holes
too.
a
lot
were
fire
of
few
director
two
35
lire?
as you
real
then?
whose
badly
She’d
the
of
they
six
in
But
and
hours.
different
workout.
repair? back just
remember?
the
USS
guns.
it
I
damaged
called
been
myself,
resignation
recalled
was
was
cliffs,
tired
saying
And
O’BRIEN,
And
badly,
tours
the
exciting.
God.
it.
of
they
and
because
And
against
division
I’d
in
by
moving
in
the
I’d
you’d badly
they
be
fire
that
Wonsan
we’d
never
the
pleased
Philippines,
at
I
their
will
time
flagship,
could
fire
damaged,
around.
you.
try
destroyer?
worked
not
will.
you
one
to
Harbor
to
We
see
suppress
accept.
know
gun
haven’t
They
and
were
so
hit
and
so
where
of
well
by
we
hard.
and
she’s
didn’t
Get
six
got
their
went
and
you
until
myself
any
a
want
fire
big
it to NIMITZ: Oh, yes. And several of the ships got hit. We never got hit.
CHERPAK: Oh, that’s good.
NIMITZ: We never got any damage, yes.
CHERPAK: How long were you out there?
NIMITZ: Over a year. And Task Force 77 was the carrier task force that was doing all the bombing. And you were either in Task Force 77 or you were in Wonsan harbor in a destroyer.
CHERPAK: Oh, I see.
NIMITZ: So one was just as bad as the other. Wonsan was more dangerous, but the carrier task force was a strain. It was cold and-
CHERPAK: Winter, yes.
NIMITZ: Yes, I had a great Navy overcoat lined with red squirrel fur, beautiful, some friend had given me. You know, I wondered the other day where the hell that was.
CHERPAK: Yes, but you needed it out there because the Korean winters are horrible.
NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: How long were you out there? When did you return to the U.S.?
MMITZ: We came back--I would guess that we came back around early in ‘52.And I then went to a submarine division in San Diego.
CHERPAK: Oh, back to submarines again?
NIMITZ: Yes, and that was just a sort of routinejob.
CHERPAK: Were you CO? [1
NIMITZ: I was commander of the division.
CHERPAK: Of the division. And how many subs were in the division?
NIMITZ: Six.
36
MMITZ:
College? NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
wanted
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
pay.
was
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: time?
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
a
And
Class
to
Were
so
go,
I
Yes.
So
I’d
No.
Yes,
No.
And
No,
of’36,
think
I
made
I
Now
Oh,
Right.
made
Stick
I
Well,
When It
Oh,
Yes.
chose
you
could
you
and
you
was
so,
could I
I
what
up
And
could
a
it supervised
up
then
you
conducted
sec.
a
to
yes.
you
at
captain
out.
my
local
my
go
least
I did
finally
was
to
were
resign,
mind
just
to
mind
England.
assignment.
you
retire.
a
your
at
staff
double
the
their
CO
we
were
then
that
I
patrol
could
training
would
rank
And
in
at
readiness
Oh,
that
point?
sent
London,
the
back
Did
at
outside
retire,
at
you
there’s
stay
submarine
the
to
of
this
anything
a
the
the
see
inspections
Armed
little
in
at
CINCNELM
37
time
no
of
the
other
the
Armed
having
San
use
bit?
Navy.
end
when
outstanding
Forces
division
submarines.
fighting
Diego?
tried
of’56
Forces
and
you
staff.
Staff
to
evaluated
32?
after
that
were
resign
Staff
happen
College
problem,
twenty
at
College.
once.
the
the
during
when
years,
skippers.
Armed
inasmuch
that
asked
and
Forces
period
with
where
as
since
retired
of
Staff
I I NIMITZ: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: CITERPAK: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: CHERPAK: was really knew then NIMITZ: colonel. NIMITZ: CHERPAK: career-wise? CHERPAK: CHERPAK: NIMITZ: was NIMITZ: decently, Washington, CHERPAK: CHERPAK: a $904 we what very lot went And you and a necessary, Yes. Yes, Yes. happened For Well, Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. month. just DC, had to whatnot, And Now Okay, And Well, So Good. Right. So duty yes. England. When and a you to the because marvelous was And what the with learn. that’s so to too, I pay felt thought so.... I By Armed him. you it I retired on did had was because a the of that thc six-month a bad Norton, a that three joint joint guy. myriad still focus they time in Forces been August prepare the And staff daughters rather Armed did I now his had services of promoted course? Staff a I’m or name officers, very also of at low a you sure Forces joint 1957, the College, just gotten good lingos was in for? 38 he War the and getting operations up my became Jack Staff job. a the are Navy? we was College, pay terrible Norton, I different College line. ready didn’t was as that a with general a assigned bias skipper for jointness-- have in and was Air and Norfolk college. against he enough officer Force career everything of an was a office wanting very, big at or of an money enhancing, this Army. some submarine army mate; very else. time? to to kind. officer, And do much And live I wish duty or tender And it there was a useful so. I in
U
U
U
I [] LI I I I NIMITZ: We simply couldn’tslay. The man who headed General Electric, Cordner, Ralph Cordner, was heading a commission. They came and stayed on my tender to question me about why I wanted to get out of the Navy.
CHERPAK: Oh, interesting.
NIMITZ: Because when we came back from England, the staff guys, I got command of this tender which made me stay one more year in the Navy. And I had put in my request for retirement.
CHERPAK: Well, you mentioned you were sent abroad to a CINCNELM staff in London, I presume.
NJMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: And what was your position there?
NIMITZ: I was in the Strategic Plan section. What we did was, Admiral would call down and say, “What do we do if Israeljumps the Suez Canal?” “Make a plan.” And we’dmake a plan. So you got to be pretty familiar with most of the situations there.
CHERPAK: In Europe and the Middle East.
NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: Yes. This was 1953.
NIMITZ: Yes, ‘53to ‘56we were there.
CHERPAK: Oh, you were there for a good three years?
NJMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: Oh, did you enjoy this assignment?
NIMITZ: Oh, you bet. We lived outside of London on the Wentworth Golf Course at Virginia Water, which is a beautiful place. I see it all the time on TV, golf TV. Yes, and you know, we visited Joan’smother who lives on the Isle of Jersey. And, yes, we did a lot of traveling around England and Scotland.
CHERPAK: Oh, I bet that would be perfect.
39 NIMITZ: Yes.
CHERPAK: Perfect for traveling. And was your position there solely making these plans? Was that what you were assigned to do?
NIMITZ: Yes, yes. JIllnever forget one day a marine came down in his colorful uniform, and handed me a slip of paper which was from Admiral-
CHERPAK: Was Conolly there then? Admiral Conolly?
NIMITZ: No, I don’tthink so. Anyway this is from the chief of staff who’sa red-bearded, Peary, Admiral Peary, Rear Admiral Peary. And he said, What do we do if such and so and such and so? And I promptly sat down, and there was nobody around and pounded out on a typewriter about a page and a half And handed it to the marine. And he came back less than--like he’dbeen fired out of a gun. And written across the page in blue, big blue pencil was, “I’mallergic to horseshit; send me one short sentence.”
CIIERPAK: Oh, oh. No long papers. I was trying to think, I don’t remember who the head of CINCNELM was at that point.
MMITZ: Damn it! I do. Because you see we lived down in Virginia Water and CINCNELM had quarters there.
CHERPAK: Had quarters there, yes, yes.
NIMITZ: And we use to act as host and hostess a lot of times for him and her when they didn’t-
CHERPAK: Did you meet any important dignitaries during this time period?
NIMITZ: Yes, I met several times Lord Mountbatten, because I used to go down and help run submarines in NATO exercises in the Mediterranean. And he was the NATO Commander of them then. And I used to go to his place to shoot in England.
CHERPAK: Oh, Broadlands?
NIMITZ: Yes.
CIIERPAK: Oh, for heaven’s sakes.
NIMITZ: Through a mutual friend. And he was most well known.
CHERPAK: Oh, yes, yes. Were you ever invited to any of the garden parties?
40
destroy
used
battery when
organized.
N1MITZ:
CRERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
MMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK: MMITZ:
And
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
doing
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
Wylie
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
it.
what
I
joined
some
should
was
I
an
actually
LST,
And
Norfolk.
was
Well,
Yes.
Submarine
The
Yes.
This
No.
No,
there
logistics
her.
work And
And
A
And
Well,
Right,
No,
No.
she
an that?
command
not
was
tender.
fired
the
at
So
old
I
Yes,
what
was
where
what
and
that
that
guess
you
ORION,
‘53
we
work.
right,
her
LST
tender.
a
whatnot.
I
I
to
went
did finished
great
time.
kind
know
guess
gun
of
were
not.
‘56.
with
yes,
So
the
you
it
battery to
ship.
of
this
of.
so
sometimes
you
a
ORION.
Guantanamo
at
And
a
do
target
that
happened,
that
ship
was
Having
located
during
at
I
in
think
a
point
titan
was
kind
tanker.
1956,
the
been
this
at
we
was that?
torpedo.
for
of
in
41 Navy
that
and
were
I a
time.
last
a just
what
was
great
destroyer
point?
came
year
were.
finishing
the
And
in
they
I
know
assignment.
charge
first
back
prior
the
called
I
skipper,
can’t
submarine
submarine
Eccies
a
to
of
refit
to
a
the
an
remember
retirement?
working
I
or
exercise was
understood
U.S.
a
tender
had
Navy
there
for
up.
fired
where
whether
your
yard
that
And
a
how
little
the
ever
overhaul
we
we last
torpedo,
a
earlier
Admiral
really
gun
going
really
duty.
got to went over the horizon, came to this goddamned tanker, heading right through the area going to be hell. And she made more noise then the LST. I signaled it with lights and flags; it didn’tmake any difference. So I finally went to battle stations and fired salvos across her bow, and she turned and disappeared.
CHERPAK: Oh.
NIMITZ: But I felt good about that, because the ship was well organized. Anyway, we tended a squadron, six submarines, and we also were the squadron flagship for a friend of mine. St. Clair was the squadron commander.
CHERPAK: Oh, yes, yes. That’s a familiar name. Li NIMITZ: Yes, it was.
CHERPAK: Did you cruise anywhere other than Guantanamo?
NIMITZ: Yes, yes, we did. Well, we went to Jamaica. We cruised down to Fort Lauderdale for Fourth of July once. We did much more active cruising then I ever anticipated for a tender.
CHERPAK: That was your last assignment. U NIMITZ: Yes, yes.
CHERPAK: In the Navy. And when did you retire?
NIMITZ: August 1, 1957. 1 CI{ERPAK: ‘Fifty-seven. Can you comment on any medals that you received for your service?
NIMITZ: No.
CHERPAK: Anything outstanding?
MMITZ: No, the Navy Commendation Unit gave me a unit commendation for the Seventh Patrol. Well deserved it. They’djust given the skipper of the HARDER, Sam Dealey, a Medal of Honor for sinking five destroyers on his previous patrol. And he was my wolf pack commander on my last patrol. And he was lost on it. But I felt quite sure we’dsunk five destroyers ourselves that patrol, plus other things. And what was nostalgic about it was that I heard later from Admiral Christy that they had determined--they had decided--that the HARDER must be gone. When I left the HARDER, I was out of torpedoes. I went back to an advanced base and got some more torpedoes. 42 I
U I
And
after
CIIERPAK:
NIMITZ:
father.
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
sent
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
the
CHERPAK: that
ship.
disdain,
anyway HARDER.
this
Craft
And
Japanese
had destroyer,
me.
Navy
you
during
102,
And
And
that
or
been
retired?
pay
came
And
Because
Captain.
something
Yes,
people And
And
And
the
Patrol
the
re-commissioned
wrecked
Yes,
So,
But
That’s
Oh,
Wasn’t
Oh.
whose
was
that time
I
yes. they next
according
out
have
and
would
you
isn’t
and
Craft
of
rather
really
of
I
commissioned
morning,
brow
amazing.
to
was
that the
that
and
quite
that
did
not
that
that
102,
say
silver
was
gone,
to
rolled
low
get
thing,
had
impacted,
something.
the
a
something.
effect,
to
Christy,
it
diary
just
nothing
it,
the
at
one. been
turns
Mrs.
Oh,
stars
F1ARDER
put
over
out
that
Rear
after
of
for
the
what
Well,
Nimitz,
blown
the
out,
or
of
they
of and
it
but
point.
them,
STEWART
the
that
I
that
Admiral’s
two
course,
left,
was
was
dry
you
a sent
Navy
was
off,
nuisance
little
somebody,
forward
that
Did “Are
the
the
docked
your
said
a
43
had
trying
message
on
Cross.
depression
next
they
old
you
you
rank
been
that
as
your
rank
to USS
stacks
in
to
morning
sank
work
Patrol
Admiral
by
me
you Surabaja.
approach
towed;
after
retirement. saying
when
just STEWART
it.
because
together
in
in
Craft
had
And
the
that? the
a
retirement?
Nimitz’s
you
it
that
patrol
put
And
actually
this
most
coast,
they
102.
it
so
retired?
this
your confused
cove
that
after
craft,
it
did.
amazing
wife?”
and
ship
looked
sank
forced
twenty-one
above
It
lying
Did
called
contacted
showing
was
me
in
more
you
circumstances,
there
four
just there.
Manila
with
Japanese
get
like
terrible.
stack
up
the
for
years
my
a
must
where
a
job
a
Jap
DD,
year,
Patrol
in. But U
NIMITZ: I did. fl
CHERPAK: And where did you work as a civilian?
NIMITZ: As a matter of fact, I can answer that question in a rather interesting fashion. I didn’t know anything about outside the Navy and being a Navy Junior. And this company called me and this company sent me a first-class ticket.
CHERPAK: Oh, how fantastic. What company was that? fl NIMITZ: Texas Instruments. And I’dnever heard of them.
CIIERPAK: Oh, good.
NIMITZ: Didn’tknow what kind of instruments they made. U CHERPAK: Yes, yes.
NIMITZ: Pianos or what.
CIIERPAK: In Texas? U NIMITZ: Yes. And I went down, and they then sent me more first- class tickets, and told me to bring my wife down, which I did. And she wept for a couple of weeks. We didn’twant to live in [] Dallas. CHERPAK: Oh, Dallas, yes. I MMITZ: Anyhow we went, because it was so patently the right thing to do. This companyjust - says you don’tknow nothing; you don’tknow what you want to do; don’task; don’tanswer if somebody asks you, because you don’t.But if you come to us, we’lleducate you for two years in a
manner you couldn’tget done at business school. And then if you aren’tany value to us we’rethe 1 ones who took the risk.
CHERPAK: Oh, okay so.
NIMITZ: So I did.
CHERPAK: You took the risk.
NIMITZ: And I stayed with TI for four years. 1]
U I I
dramatically
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
years?
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: overhead
NIMITZ:
with.
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: Navy.
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
went was
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
night
auditing NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
dead
But
to
school
And
Fifteen
Perkin-Elmer.
for
surveillance
they
right,
So
Yes.
Oh,
It’s
Yes, In
then
Accounting,
Oh,
four
for
different
Connecticut.
Oh.
In
we
And
You make
Oh,
Oh,
Oh,
in Oh,
Oh.
listen,
“We’re
I
or
you’ll
and the
years.
Norwalk,
Connecticut.
nearly
were
that’s
sixteen
really?
Connecticut?
so
what
were
two
electro-
I
craft
they you
stayed
be
really--
going
in
killed
yes.
years
mentioning
of
do
fantastic!
were
some
make
that
years?
headquarters.
And
enormous
optical
they
the I
to
did
at
myself.
Listen,
we
how
get
became
doing
head
Dallas.
ways?
all
make
everything,
used
you
things.
kinds--analytical
That
did
of
They
that
I
use
auditing
have
so
over
I
exactly?
the
it
this
had
was
to
for
that
They
you
gave
head
to us.”
Russia.
because
to
sixteen
differ
down
your
go
45
were
take
or
made
me
of
And
get
accounting
that
confidence
one
from
in
correspondence
instruments
years.
president
they
a
anyway,
the
Greenwich,
flu
after
difficult
space
your
wanted
shot.
four
Ijust
level
rather?
telescope.
of
naval
[End
is
job
years
me--Pat
Perkin-Elmer
what
isn’t
didn’t
rises
courses
after
of
service?
there.
Tape
I
it,
to
was
another.
want
They
Haggerty
around
the
in
#1]
involved
accounting
way
to
Was
made
for
stay
I
had
that
it
said,
it
much
sixteen
was
at
in
to
area?
TI,
and
to
through
go
in
of
begin
so
the
to
he
the I NIMITZ:
the ROTC rank
completely
of was soon
government accounting. radar
that to about the
really in looking
NIMITZ: CHERPAK:
MMITZ: CHERPAK:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK: Perkin-Elmer more Elmer
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
the
do
looking
language,
chief
I
you’re
of
as
equipment
from
it,
people
it.
about work
Unit
knew. the
It’s
I
over fine.
Because
did--and
electrician’s
just
over No.
going
academic
nothing
different
Trusting
Yes,
at Yes, And
under No,
equipment
running
there their
And
namely
And
Berkeley
or
Trusting
Exactly.
Absolutely.
Oh, a Okay.
As
other
no,
and
we question
and
well,
to anyplace
what
it
those
I
shoulder.
Texas
it
spent
to
I
always determine
no.
only
were
than
them a took
so
senate
you’re
see,
accounting
peoples
mate
do
company
it
you
division,
forth. was
circumstances
was,
them
their
with
took
Instruments
anything
so
making me
of
to
else
can
learned
really
relying
and
nothing
you
learning
do
four
I’ll
shoulders
lives
any
me
to
to
was.
do
their everything
from
of
tell and get weren’t,
do
need
bids about
of
years, and
else.
that
evading
on all
I
like their the
you,
their
job.
everything
enough
had what went
them things, so
to
to when
you
And
if six
goddamned
but
running
the
forth.
have
it
correctly
businesses,
you job.
you
to
I
different.
months was
can’t being
to
learned
in
as
they
government
of
Perkin-Elmer,
at
don’t
do
weren’t is
four
Texas
And
the
46
duck to the
do
an
a
their know
responsible.
do
ship,
deduced,
to
language
years
know end
innate everything
job
don’t at
Doing
soup.
and Instruments
with
realize
job.
Texas
brought
you’re
of
done.
totally
of
I
worry
they
any
sense a
became finance,
Once
millions
and
strategic
year.
you
so
Instruments
at
better
If
relying You
made
yourself.
different.
Texas
that
about
I
you
in
of
know,
I’d
immediately
And
deduced,
the
as know
initiative
I
you
than
caught
have
me
would and
planning
on
the
Instruments
it.
head
I’d
running
I controller
can
And millions Under
them
they
it
than
had can’t
to head?
was
on
as
be
of
kick think
and
so
only do.
soon
anybody
to
useful. realized and in
it.
do
just
the
the
there’s
responsibility
that,
London
somebody
And of
the
correctly
that
of
you’re
a
rules
Naval
as
crazy.
dollars
year
the
things
And
going
I
people
the
I
at
no
learned
knew
and
was not of
Perkin
bulk
Here point
so
for
else
to that
as
1]
D
U
I
I
El
I I G
MMITZ:
CHERPAK:
from
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
the proceed.”
back
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
thought
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
were
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CIIERPAK:
Navy.
and
a
a
billion
paid
that
say,
Had
Yes.
Yes.
And
No,
Incidentally,
In
Well,
1980.
But....
employment
you
“You
How
So
Right.
sales,
Something
I
Yes,
and
And
Wow.
I
Is
I
had
guess
they
didn’t.
you
it
when
had
a
would
a
know
about
when
my
so.
half
offered
large
Oh,
left
they
worked
t
experience
I
a
took
applied
I
civilian
so
did
in
twenty-one
at
year.
you
just
company?
were
me
the
defense.
that
you
over
sum
know
at
ajob
Raytheon
mistaken.
to
time.
Raytheon.
employment
leave
we
at
Raytheon
up
I
Texas
as
years
were
don’t
your
the
Perkin-Elmer?
offer
something
Instruments, head
know
ago,
naval
for
47
in
was
of
ajob
yes.
enough
1980,
career
a
big
immediately
Somebody
like
because
and
I
program.
to
wouldn’t
and
sixty
do
I
guess
its
it
that.
million
was-
in
significance
And
after
have
Newport
I
retired
have
I
a
thought
your
remember
year.
no
permanently
said
retirement idea
for
When
twice
you?
how
that
had
I
about
left
to
to
they
What
from
write
we it. did
NIMITZ: me the
And going understood,
what your
puzzle And necessary.
NIMITZ: CHERPAK:
CHERPAK: any NIMITZ:
NIMITZ: CHERPAK: nuclear
submarine commander if commanded
CHERPAK: NIMITZ: that the
on galley these.... I and
got
I
Navy, for
it
patrol
ever
tiniest
until
that
I
mind,
we’d I
constitutes
mean
to
up
also
really
what
and
is
navy,
be
had
and
stood
still you
one
been
and
never
Well,
little make
then
as in
Yes.
If
[Pause)
really
to
went Yes,
got
says--and
to
by went
there’s
the
have in of
well
just there
Oh,
Oh,
you? It’s
Well,
working
go
out
everything
noise me,
so the a
the
had
I’ll
compliment. it
communications next.
real understood
to as
into
a
as that’s what
work.
I
unmasked
was
among
locked-shut tell things
which
could
tough
one
ajob
that’s war
I
I
and
profit,
was
he
could.
As
the
you,
on a
was thing
And
interesting.
in
was
time
sounds
soon in
be
crew’s
is
going is is
one. it.
the
a
a
my
the
you just there’s
a
your
compliment. lying
I
accounting, submarine
them,
But
a So the
I
when
mean
wonderful
others
as
very
know
position
naval
Navy
to
can’t
I
galley
trying
and
Navy
they
I
business,
did
most
in
could
sleep
they
a
experienced
I
Ijust
my
lot
so
in
knew
really that enjoy career
as
didn’t
taught
to and
the
again, forth.
interesting
can so
of
bunk
thinking,
being
and
compliment. learn
knew
fit
I
that places
the
there
world, didn’t surely
submarining, think
snow
fix
definitely,
the
making
me
It
and
I
language,
communicators
48 soniething
they
it. that.
would just
circumstances
submariner--says
was
to
correctly.
feel where
you
it
It’s Son tell
and
and do can’t was.
becomes.
I’ve
a
nobody
instinctive.
just I
under.
only I
of
profit,
that and
couldn’t
still
the
your
and
got
We’d open
a but
what’s
you
bitch!
in
all
want
But
language
think
a
incidentally
Which
only
in
and
a
favorite I
fitness
the
it
had have you’re
enjoyed
really
remember
once have
the
with
to
going
It’s
I’ll
how
that
this because time.
trouble
Navy
go
more
is
bet
like
you
done
report
faced
is remarkable the
the
is
the
to
to
Navy
on
Every everything.
doing
that
true,
part
war hydraulic in make
get
that
damn
only
going
same
in with I
with
with
the
had in
vent
that
that job?
with
of
forgetting
could
job
which
most
thing
a
government,
fewer
it
way odd
your so
to
into
profit,
straight
way,
boat,
in
during
is
Was
one
bed
much
manifold.
If
the operate
of
different. language.
until I
that
my
body
you’re people,
can
just fitted
all?
one
there crew’s and
the
the
duty
of
in
I
say
all
from
night
it
a
day,
in
So
if
is
U
0
U 1 I
American
CHER1AK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
was
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
easily
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
in
CHERPAK: Kimmel.
over he
communicate man
NIMITZ:
about NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
sounds
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
CHERPAK:
you
understands
really
of
backwards,
anything.
ruffled.
and
goodwill,
of
All
raised
Neptune,
his
the
Yes,
Well,
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
Yes.
Mechanisms,
of
I’m
that
Right,
How
Yes,
Right.
reliance
Can
Right
Mechanisms.
ship.
truly
a
And
sure,
right.
and
he
to
by
he
sudden
and
sure
to
that’s
get
was you
was
my
was
that
I’d
oh,
what
a
he
right.
that’s
yes.
90
subordinate
on
the
you’re
mother
had
of
describe
like
he
years
alright,
was
percent
daylight
yes.
you.
great.
it
job
extremely,
as
And
amazing.
great
is
to
his
a
that
done.
aware
ago,
because
ask
father?
I
So
your
of
great
his
faith
suppose.
broke
is
so
you
the
about
he
Like
wanted
character
clearly
extremely
of
Now
mother
leadership
in
was
people
he
a
on
the
his
when
few
that
was
Actually
that
your
a
article
that
of fellow
soft-spoken,
questions
are
49
was
away
young
him.
he
staff,
and
even
ear
they,
quality:
of
went
a
that man.
Pve
And
personality
goodwill,
most
was
and
strong
temperament,
Navy
again,
to
often
was
about
It
they
that
he’s
really
of
Pearl
even-tempered
was
Wife, influence
the
they’d
written
he
admitted
allowed
realized
will
your
an
and
tuned,
time.
conveyed
to
absolute
Catherine
do
just
very
us?
kept
father,
about
to
his
they
then
several
fine-tuned,
kill
difficult
do
the
utmost
to
person
weren’t
tenet
themselves,
it.
on
her
too.
staff
you
Nimitz.
And
times,
you?
in
of
to to
his
of
who
The
lepers.
he
his
do to
get
Admiral
confidence
I’m
could
the
his
that
excited
wasn’t
fall
sure
best
any
all
I if NIMITZ: Well, I don’t remember the article. But she definitely was the force in our lives as far as I’m concerned.
CHERPAK: Right, did she have strong faith?
NIMITZ: Strong?
CHERPAK: Faith. Religious faith?
NIMITZ: No, I don’t think so. I think she and my father were both great believers in “God helps he who helps himself.”
CHERPAK: Did you meet any wartime leaders during the war or after that you can comment on? Ernest King, the CNO during the war?
NIMITZ: No, no. Did you read that biography?
CHERPAK: Tom Buell’s?
NIMITZ: Somebody wrote a biography. I don’tknow what it was about. I guess it was Roosevelt and His Commanders.
CHERPAK: Oh, right, right.
NIMITZ: In which his daughters said it was the most ridiculous thing, people saying that he had an irascible disposition, that he was even-tempered all the time in a towering rage.
CHERPAK: So did you ever meet him?
NIMITZ: No.
CHERPAK: No, you never met him. Did you ever meet Spruance. I think you mentioned that.
NIMITZ: Oh, yes, several times.
CHERPAK: And what was your impression of him?
NIM1TZ: Oh, wonderful, calm, dispassionate, careful person. His son, his son.
CHERPAK: Oh, Edward.
50
NIM1TZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
was
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: about
CHEF NIM1IZ:
he
CHEF. assigned
NIMITZ:
staff.
had
CHERPAK: would
NIMITZ:
whenever-
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
should
when
a
The
to
poor
say
PAK:
AK:
fall
to
things
have
he
anything
No,
No
staff.”
Where
Well,
Oh,
I
Oh,
the
Yes,
Ed
again,
don’t
went
Right,
Did
Yes,
Right.
Excuses.
Oh,
I Right,
Oh.
Junior.
I
Fifth
had.
he
he
don’t
didn’t.
that
yes.
but
think
I’m
you
down
loved
sure
and
he
They’re
sure.
critical,
Halsey
Fleet.
had
that’s
or
His
think
right.
sure
did.
Ed,
ever oh,
I
did.
Admiral
Do
so,
know
and him.
to
son
his
it
Halsey
The
all
so.
I
was you
get
And
like
meet
both
Did
was
replaced
don’t
died
He
right.
son,
Apparently
my
flamboyant
done,
know
me,
you
Third
I
awful.
spent
Mitscher?
deceased
Admiral
guess
endeared
in
think
Old
relieved
You
Dad
an
ever
failure
the
what
Fleet;
Man
most
automobile
And
so.
everybody
need
would
guy
he
have
stuff,
Turner,
me
I
now,
himself
was
your
for
of
Halsey don’t
Spruance,
was
in
flamboyant
51
on
his
which a
the
say,
also
Third
both
an
chance
father my
think
life
who
accident,
to
Southwest
Richmond
turned
irascible
“Nothing
terribly
turret
my
would
trying
his
Fleet.
the
knew
so.
thought
people. to
Old
son
Fifth
it
My
three
meet
fond
I
to
right
be
man.
him
the think.
Man
and
Pacific
father
get
Kelly
disastrous,
Fleet.
job
matter
Halsey?
of of
did.
around.
daughter.
Spruance
and
General
Spruance?
on
loved
Turner?
when
Same
But
most
the
with
Task
every
were
iNDIANAPOLIS.
Admiral
Guadalcanal
ships,
the
Vandergrift. everybody
Halsey.
five
Force
always
time
different
Halsey
stars
He
anybody
38?
else
was just
which and CHERPAK: Oh.
NIMITZ: And a couple of stories. After they had seized the airfield on Guadalcanal, Dad, in a fit of something or other, decided to go and pay a visit to Vandergrift to thank him.
CHERPAK: Oh. o NIMITZ: And so he arranged for an Army bomber to take him to Guadalcanal and land on this woven metal-
CHERPAK: Tarmac of some sort?
NIMITZ: Tarmac, yes. And Dad was sitting up in the bombardier’s place watching, looking at the islands going by and so forth. And he had in his hand a page out of the National Geographic that his aide had given him, showing pictures of the islands. And he said his confidence in the whole thing was shaken badly when there was a tap on his shoulder, and it was the navigator fl saying, “Admiral, could we borrow that map?”
CIIERPAK: Right. Not quite sure where you are.
NIMITZ: And imagine. So they used this National Geographic thing where they found Guadalcanal. And they landed on the tarmac, but ran off it, and it packed the bombardier’s thing 9 with mud like potted shrimp. And Dad was in there, and he says it was really something.
CHERPAK: I bet.
NIMITZ: Anyhow that night Vandergrift had a meeting, a dinner, in his mess tent with Dad and the colonels, who reported to him on the island, all tough as nails. And the dinner was C rations I and K rations. But the chef had made a salad out of hearts of palm, of which they had tons. -
CHERPAK: Oh, yes.
NIMITZ: And Dad said to Vandergrift, “Jeez, I didn’tthink of it, but here in this wild [] Godforsaken place, we have one of the world’s ritzy salads.” And Vandergrift said, “Chester, why don’tyou--would you say a few words to my mess sergeant? He’sbeen with me for many years.” And Dad said, “Sure.” And Vandergrift sent for this guy. And Dad says this great hairy, sweaty thing came in in a dirty apron.
CHERPAK: Oh, yes, dirty apron.
NIMITZ: And shifting from foot to foot, and Dad makes his flowery little speech about his salad and so forth. And Vandergrift-- The guyjust stands there, going back and forth. Vandergrift 52 I
ci I
CHERPA And
ridiculous.
Dad
to
appealed
brought
things
NIMITZ:
the
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
CHERPAK: greatly NIMITZ:
after?
CHERPAK: NIMITZ:
nods
Admiral,”
CHERPAK:
go
Army
said,
Dad
forward
at
that
Because,
offset
face
him
to
said
while
‘Well,
a:
impressed
Go
and
Well, No,
Because
No,
Yes.
Eisenhower,
I
Yes,
as
to
don’t
with
by
he
Oh,
Right.
Oh,
He
forward And,
Is
Yes.
Oh,
fled.
though
face
I’ve
I
Dad
what
my
was--they
such
of
never
not there
was
that
know.
his
yes.
what
course,
Do
met
with
he
And
oh,
father
was
much.
him
Oh,
a
did
unit,
to
in
with
was
met
anybody
was
you
towering
Eisenhower.
George
and
it
everybody
CNO.
a
I say,
Europe.
you
what
about
really
recognized
the
were
riot.
was
in
him.
your
He
your
know
the
Eisenhower
“For
do?” the
way
obviously
was
courtmartialed
end
Eisenhower
Did
talking
Marshall?
don’t,
unit,
else
ego
father
same
what
Christ’s
Army
Eisenhower
burst
your
of
you
you
of
and
his
so
that.
mess
about
importance your
was
got
ever
out
couldn’t--and
people is
I
military
impression
we’ll
sake
can’t
a
was--and
the
as
CNO
laughing.
very
father’s
this
meet
53
and
forget
my
said,
say
say
guy
are.
abilities.
over
able
sentenced
after
Old
something.”
MacArthur,
I
in
that
“Take
But
did.
I
it.”
of
opinion
and,
he
guy.
lunch
think
Man
Eisenhower? the
apparently
And
we’ve
put
But
him
you
Dad
war
was
it’s
to
in
that
the
of
he
out
the
be
know,
And
missed
most
once
when
General
for
him
guy
ahead
felt,
shot.
mess
and
some
he
two
Navy
told
says,
was?
I’m
said,
he
shoot
during
says,
And
of
at
years.
boy,
was
MacArthur?
me
sure,
everything.
the
people
no,
“Look,
the
“B-B-Bullshit,
him.”
that
chief
who
Pentagon,
he
the
that
family
wouldn’t.
one
aren’t
this
war
had
of
they
of
staff
is
refused
or
were
the
and of El
0 NIMITZ: Yes. So I always feel that of all the services the Navy has the least sort of-
CHERPAK: Backsliders? LI
NIMITZ: No, has the least face-to-face with blood and death all the time. The Air Force has it constantly. When you realize the number of bombers they lost in the Eighth Air Force and the Fifteenth Air Force in Europe, it was just appalling. Complete thirty-five missions, if you can. And very few did. [] CHERPAK: Right.
NIMITZ: Awful. And now the Navy Air. I know it seems ridiculous to me to think that Navy H Air carriers are being involved in this Afghanistan thing. In fact, they are involved more than any other air force. [] CHERPAK: Yes, they are. Absolutely. They’re the ones that are doing this. Do you have any Navy connections today?
NIMITZ: i-ny Navy connections? No, zero, absolutely zero.
CHERPAI: Do you have anything else to add to the interview? Is there anything we’ve missed, any event or personality?
NIMITZ: Well, I’lltell you an unusual thing--no use recording. But it’sjust of interest, an illustrated degree to which we were poor when I got out of the Navy. I went to Texas Instruments as a, mind ou, I worked in the shops for the first six months just learning, getting oriented. And then I workad in all kinds of goddamned places. But I left Texas Instruments four years, exactly, later. And Iliad during those four years, I paid in income taxes, in cash, more money than the Navy had paid me as a midshipman for four years or as an officer for twenty-one years.
CHERPAK: Oh, for heaven sakes.
NIMITZ: I mean I really felt: Take it! I’mfinished with you!
CHERPAI: Vow.
NIMITZ: And you may know my father lived a very humble life financially. If he hadn’t been chosen by ice United Nations to run a Kashmir plebiscite, which never came off but he was hired by the uN for two years. Those two years gave Mother some seventy thousand dollars she’d never had. id she was very clever, and she invested it. But otherwise he’d still be living on fifteen thou tad dollars a year when he died.
U
I
NIMITZ:
can
CHERPM.:
NIMITZ:
career, CHERPAI”
NIMITZ:
CHERPAk
NIMITZ:
CHERPAI:
NIMITZ:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAI
NIMITZ:
CHERPAK:
NIMITZ:
CHERPAI”:
NIMITZ:
CHERPA
NIMITZ:
CHERPAl:
CHERPAI
do
edits
Ad
tod.
H
Oh.
Yes,
No,
ay,
‘‘s, It
‘‘,
hat’s
u
h.
elI,
So
is.
Right,
Yes.
And
That’s
Yes,
Oh,
Not
ii
It’s
Pension.
too.
yes.
you
I’Ll
that’s
we Nimitz,
I
good.
I
the
suppose
got
improved
tell
really. greatly,
sent
but
I
bet,
will
right.
only
will
rare.
very
out
you
you
them
unless
get
and
send
way
of
it
few
I
I
but....
did
would
this the
has.
want
over
of
to
we
he
you
and
educate
Navy
your
college.
transcribed,
had
did.
to
the
really
far
a
thank
copy
father
to
an
years.
between.
do
and
outside
oppose
for
it.
you
and
bring
55
and
your
very
income.
any
World
I’ll
up
comments
of
much
do
the
my
War
But
some
three
daughters
for
that’s-
II.
and
editing
your
daughters?
editing.
marrying
reminiscences
and
listening,
a
military
of
and
your
person. you CHERPAK: ‘[hank you. [End of Tape #21 [End of Interviewl
56