C mmittee Report REGULAR CALENDAR

April 26, 2018

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

REPORT OF COMMITTEE

The Committee on Commerce and Consumer Affairs to which was referred SB 316,

AN ACT relative to the regulation of online .

Having considered the same, report the same with the recommendation that the bill OUGHT TO PASS.

R p Michael Costable

FOR THE COMMITTEE

Original: House Clerk Cc: Committee Bill File

COMMITTEE REPORT

Committee: Commerce and Consumer Affairs Bill Numbei.:. Sl3 316 Title: relative to the regulation of online auctions. Date: April 26, 2018 Consent Calendar: REGULAR Recommendati9 OUGHT TO PASS

STATEMENT OF INTENT

This bill exempts internet auctions from the requirements of RSA 311-B, the Auctioneers' Practice Act. Under current law anyone that lists items online at popular web sites (like eBay) must obtain an auctioneer's license, unless they are selling their own personal property, however, personal property obtained for the purpose of re-selling also requires an auctioneer's license. Forty three states do not regulate online auctions and 23 states do not regulate auctioneers, including New York and California. To qualify in New Hampshire for an auctioneer's license one must either go to auctioneer's school or apprentice for a minimum of six months and the apprenticeship must include activities such as bid calling and running etc, then one must register for a $75 exam, pay a $200 fee for a two year license and be bonded for minimum of $25,000. The majority on the committee felt that this process is overly burdensome, unnecessary and unenforceable to any significant degree.

Vote 11-6.

Rep. Michael Costable FOR THE COMMITTEE

Original: House Clerk Cc: Committee Bill File REGULAR CALENDAR

Commerce and Consumer Affairs SB 316, relative to the regulation of online auctions. OUGHT TO PASS. Rep. Michael Costable for Commerce and Consumer Affairs. This bill exempts internet auctions from the requirements of RSA 311-B, the Auctioneers' Practice Act. Under current law anyone that lists items online at popular web sites (like eBay) must obtain an auctioneer's license, unless they are selling their own personal property, however, personal property obtained for the purpose of re- selling also requires an auctioneer's license. Forty three states do not regulate online auctions and 23 states do not regulate auctioneers, including New York and California. To qualify in New Hampshire for an auctioneer's license one must either go to auctioneer's school or apprentice for a minimum of six months and the apprenticeship must include activities such as bid calling and running etc, then one must register for a $75 exam, pay a $200 fee for a two year license and be bonded for minimum of $25,000. The majority on the committee felt that this process is overly burdensome, unnecessary and unenforceable to any significant degree. Vote 11-6.

Original: House Clerk Cc: Committee Bill File

Stapler, Carol

From: Costable, Michael Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:01 AM To: Hunt, John; Stapler, Carol Subject: Blurb 316 exempt auctions

SB316

This bill exempts internet auctions from the requirements of RSA 311-B. Under current law anyone that lists items online at popular websites (like ebay) must register for an auctioneer's license, unless it is their own personal property, however, personal property obtained for the purpose of re-selling also requiresicense. 43 states do not regulate online auctions and 23 states do not regulate Auctioneers, including New York and California. To qualify in New Hampshire for an auctioneers license one must either go to auctioneer's school or apprentice for a minimum of six months and the apprenticeship must include activities such as bid calling and running etc, then one must register for an exam with a cost of $75 per, pay a $200 fee for a two year license and be bonded for minimum of $25,000. The majority on the committee felt that this process is overly burdensome, unnecessary and unenforceable to any significant degree.

1 Voting Sheets HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

EXECUTIVE SESSION on SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions.

DATE: April 10, 2018

LOB ROOM: 302

MOTIONS: OUGHT TO PASS

Moved by Rep. Costable Seconded by Rep. Plumer Vote: 11-6

CONSENT CALENDAR: NO

Statement of Intent: Refer to Committee Report

Respectfully submitted,

Rep Valerie Fraser, Clerk HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

EXECUTIVE SESSION on SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions.

DATE:

LOB ROOM: 302

MOTION: (Please check one box)

OTP ❑ lTL 0 Retain (1st year) n Adoption of Amendment # 0 Interim Study (2nd year) (if offered)

Moved by Rep. Co Seconded by Rep. p rYv r Vote:

MOTION: (Please check one box)

❑ OTP 0 OTP/A E ITL 0 Retain (1" year) El Adoption of Amendment # [I Interim Study (2nd year) (if offered)

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. Vote:

MOTION: (Please check one box)

O OTP ❑ OTP/A ❑ ITL E Retain (1st year) El Adoption of Amendment # 0 Interim Study (2nd year) (if offered)

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. Vote:

MOTION: (Please check one box)

❑ OTP 0 OTP/A 0 ITL El Retain (1st year) LI Adoption of Amendment # 0 Interim Study (2nd year) (if offered)

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. Vote:

CONSENT CALENDAR: YES NO

Minority Report? Yes LNo If yes, author, Rep: Motion

Respectfully submitted: A 44"--4---- Rep-\? alerie Fraser, Clerk STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE 1/5/2018 10:27:29 AM • OFFICE OF THE HOUSE CLERK Roll Call Committee Registers Report 2018 SESSION

COMMERCE

Bill #: .26 . Title: 6-0;. eke

PH Date: Exec Session Date: T / Motion: v-179 Amendment #: MEMBER YEAS NAYS

Hunt, John B. Chariman . V/ Biggie, Barbara Vice Chairman Fraser, Valerie Clerk Fromuth, Bart — Sanborn, Laurie J. Ferreira, Elizabeth V Osborne Jason M. V/ Costable, Michael V/ Plumer, John R. V Schwaegler, Vicki \I Panasiti, Reed A. Butler, Edward A. 7- Gidge, Kenneth N. — . / Williams, Kermit R. ,/ Abel, Richard M. 1// Luneau, David k/ McBeath, Rebecca ____ Bartlett, Christy D. —17 Fontneau, Timothy — Van Houten, Connie li7 TOTAL VOTE:

VN\

Page: 1 of 1 Sub-Committee Minutes HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

SUBCOMMITTEE WORK SESSION on SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions.

DATE: April 3, 2018

Subcommittee Members: Reps. Sanborn, Ferreira, Costable, Plumer, Panasiti, Butler, Williams, Abel, Bartlett and Van Houten

Comments and Recommendations:

MOTIONS: OUGHT TO PASS Moved by Rep. Rep. Costable Seconded by Rep. Rep. Plumer Vote: 5-4

Respectfully submitted,

Rep. Laurie Sanborn Subcommittee Chairman HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

SUBCOMMITTEE WORK SESSION on SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions.

DATE:

Subcommittee Members: Reps. Hunt, Biggie, Fraser, Fromuth, Sanborn, F91-JLejx4., Osborne, Costable. Plumer, Schwaegler, Panasiti, Butler, Gidge, Williams, Abel, Luneau, McBeath, Bartlett, frontiTea7 and Van Houten

Comments and Recommendations:

MOTIONS: TP/A, ITL, Retained (1st Yr), Interim Study (2nd Yr) (Please circle one)

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. W'filline{: AM Vote: 5 —

Adoption of Amendment #

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. Vote:

Amendment Adopted Amendment Failed

MOTIONS: OTP, OTP/A, ITL, Retained (1st Yr), Interim Study (2nd Yr) (Please circle one)

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. AM Vote:

Adoption of Amendment #

Moved by Rep. Seconded by Rep. Vote:

Amendment Adopted Amendment Failed

Respectfully submitted,

Rep. Subcommittee Chairman/Clerk Hearing Minutes HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

PUBLIC HEARING ON SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions.

DATE: March 28, 2018

LOB ROOM: 302 Time Public Hearing Called to Order: 2:29 pm

Time Adjourned: 3:30 pm

mtratee Members: Reps un Fraser, Fromut sborne, Costabl i, Plumer, Schwae Je-r- asie utle Gidge, Williams McBeath, Bartlett, Fontneau and n Hou en

Bill Sponsors: Sen. French Sen. Reagan

TESTIMONY

* Use asterisk if written testimony and/or amendments are submitted. SB 316 Clerk's Notes Barbara Biggie

*Sen. Harold French, licensed auctioneer - The NH Auctioneers state how this bill would be dangerous to consumers. Consumer protections are in place. This organization believes it can regulate online sales at sites. 42 states don't regulate auctions. There are several avenues to sell you belongings, including online auctions. One complaint received last year. The regulatory board says using online methods, e.g. using eBay's "auction" choice, they should be an auctioneer. Currently can use online site, not have control of merchandise and money, it's permissable. Selling own goods online at auction: personal goods. 311-13:h any person who buys goods to sell online, have to be licensed. At my auction, buying and then selling later, need to be licensed.

Q: Rep. Richard Able - Would you like to eliminate licensing requirement all together? A: Yes, this bill would be a good start. Don't regulate online commerce. Anyone from Maine or Vermont can come to NH and take back to sell online.

Eric Forcier & Adrian LaRochelle, Secv of State's Office - supports the bill Checked neighboring states. ME specific; MA doesn't regulate: Vt hasn't answered yet. Business friendly. Not far from exemption in existing law. Bill would allow possession of items.

Q: Rep. Ed Butler exception B:13-5 ? A. yes, section 4 selling own goods

*Aile Byers, NH Auctioneers, President & Bob Best, NH Auctioneers Assoc. NHAA Atty Sullowav - Opposes. Looked at consignment shops complaints presented. Q: Rep. Abel - Absent licensure there's no protection 'or the consumer? What does the owner of the goods do? A: Contact NH Board of Auctioneers' board to make a finding. The auctioneer is bonded and can deal with that. And, consumer protection division at the Attorneys General office. On consignment shops, etc. Lawsuits, also. Q: To what degree of goods being sold are stolen goods, would you get a complaint of that as well? A: If the seller signs an auctioneer's contract and if breech of contract, go to attorney office. Would be difficult to find stolen items

Q: Chairman Hunt - How would you know about these situations? A: Through complaints and reported by consumer, aware of an auction taking place that may be unlicensed auction. Q: You're relying on these methods. A: Members of assoc. look around.

Q: Rep. Michael Costable - Is eBay a licensed auctioneer? A: No, it's a platform, business entity, online business. An auctioneer is a person licensed. A person.

Q: Chairman Hunt - If you don't take possession of the product, how do you ship to buyer? A: If people taking possession, they should be licensed. eBay itself doesn't deal with possession and is not an auctioneer. Q: Your concern that the bonded auctioneer, if an item disappears, I can go after that auctioneer. A: Also, secret bidders etc. are know to auctioneer assoc. The board would look at other methods of fraud, etc. Q: This gets down to buyer beware and do you due diligence. How many NH residents know this law exists? A: There's over 100 NH licensees. Some business only do online auctioneers that market they only do auctions online. Q: In hospitality business, may have huge amount of deposits, and the business isn't bonded. May walk away with the money. A: The auctioneer should be asked if bonded, other information, any regulations pertain. Q: Since so may doing Internet auction and that you feel customer safety important and you advertise as NH auctioneers are licensed and have a bond? A: Wonderful marketing tools. We auction coins. Anything not sold at auction, why can I go home and use without a license? A: Nobody trying to keep from selling, easy to get a license. Q: Do you have an auction license, online? A: No Why take 7 year law something that's working just fine. Why change it now? Q: Received compromise then but auctioneers always wanted online auctions require license.

*Paul Morrissette, owner auction business in Franklin - Supports business This is needed legislation has to face reality of current climate of online sales, over state borders transactions, etc. I sell at my auctions and my buyers sell on online auctions. How will the board keep track of the many items sold on eBay, who's selling under 18 years old Explained being an auctioneer apprentice compared to an online auction. Many tasks not needed for online transactions. There are 23 states not requiring licensing. This is a disappearing business in NH. If I'm doing online auctions through a few services, they do most of the process. It makes my items under auction accessible nationally.

Steve Schofield, North Conway, self - Opposes. I expect my competition to play the same way I'm obligated to. Sometimes I'm working to auction a life's worth of items. Why have different standards for in person vs. online?

Q: Rep. Abel - If this is defeated, how will you deal with competitors outside the state? A: NH can't control out of state jurisdictions.

Q: Rep. David Luneau - What's the license fee? A: 2 level process NH licenses are less than non-NH residents. Q: Minimum age of auctioneer: do see this could be changed given ? A: have to be 18 to sign a contract.

Q: Rep. Elizabeth Ferriera - What are the fees? A: May be same resident, nonresident about $100 for 2-year license. Q: How many in NH A. 209 NH individuals, 400 out of state (as of Jan 2018 licensing)

Deirdre Byers, North Conway, self - Opposes. The intention of this bill that those in NH take others products to auction online need to be licensed. Most auctioneers around the country also do online auctions. The RSA doesn't preclude other than public outcry. On eBay, must be 18 or older. The business is changing; we all have to advertise. May not tag, but we have to take pictures selling online.

Blue Sheet: Pro, 2; Con, 2

Respectfully Submitted:

Barbara Biggie, Acting lerk HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

PUBLIC HEARING ON SB 316

BILL TITLE: relative to the regulation of online auctions. DATE: 3 t

ROOM: 302 Time Public Hearing Called to Order:C:

Time Adjourned:3

(please circle if present)

mi tee Members: Reps ser, Fromuth,, a, Osborne, Costabl , Plumer, Schwaegle Gidge, William McBeath, t,.Fontneau aq--rail-TriOute

Bill Sponsors: Sen. French Sen. Reagan

TESTIMONY

* Use asterisk if written testimony and/or amendments are submitted. SB 316 Clerk's Notes Barbara Biggie

1)* Sen. Harold French District 7

Licensed auctioneer The NH Auctioneers state how this bill would be dangerous to consumers. Consumer protections are in place. This organization believes it can regulate online sales at auction sites. 42 states don't regulate auctions. There are several avenues to sell you belongings, including online auctions. One complaint received last year. The regulatory board says using online methods, e.g. using eBay's "auction" choice, they should be an auctioneer. Currently can use online site, not have control of merchandise and money, it's permissable. Selling own goods online at auction: personal goods. 311-B:h any person who buys goods to sell online, have to be licensed. At my auction, buying and then selling later, need to be licensed.

Rep. Able: Would you like to eliminate licensing requirement all together? A. Yes, this bill would be a good start. Don't regulate online commerce. Anyone from Maine or Vermont can come to NH and take back to sell online.

2) Eric Forcier Adrian LaRochelle, Secy of State's office supports the bill

Checked neighboring states. ME specific; MA doesn't regulate: Vt hasn't anwered yet. Business friendly. Not far from exemption in existing law. Bill would allow possession of items.

Rep. Butler: exception B:13-5 ? A. yes, section 4 selling own goods

*3)Aile Byers NH Auctioneers, President Opposes bill

And Bob Best, NH Auctioneers Ass NHAA Atty Sulloway... opposes the bill

Looked at consignment shops complaints presented.

Rep. Abel: Absent licensure there's no protection for the consumer? What does the owner of the goods do? A. contact NH Board of Auctioneers' board to make a finding. The auctioneer is bonded and can deal with that. And, consumer protection division at the Attorneys General office. On consignment shops, etc. Lawsuits, also. Q. To what degree of goods being sold are stolen goods, would you get a complaint of that as well? A. If the seller signs an auctioneer's contract and if breech of contract, go to attorney office. Would be difficult to find stolen items Chairman Hunt: how would you know about these situations? A. Through complaints and reported by consumer, aware of an auction taking place that may be unlicensed auction. Chmn: youre relying on these methods. A. members of assoc. look around.

Rep. Costable: Is eBay a licensed auctioneer. A. No, it's a platform, business entity, online business. An auctioneer is a person licensed. A person

Chairman Hunt: If you don't take possession of the product, how do you ship to buyer? A. If people taking possession, they should be licensed. eBay itself doesn't deal with possession and is not an auctioneer. Chmn: your concern that the bonded auctioneer, if an item disappears, I can go after that auctioneer. A. Also, secret bidders etc. are know to auctioneer assoc. The board would look at other methods of fraud, etc. Q. this gets down to buyer beware and do you due diligence. How many NH residents know this law exists? A. There's over 100 NH licensees. Some business only do online auctioneers that market they only do auctions online. Q. In hospitality business, may have huge amount of deposits, and the business isn't bonded. May walk away with the money. A. The auctioneer should be asked if bonded, other information, any regulations pertain. Q. Since so may doing Internet auction and that you feel customer safety important and you advertise as NH auctioneers are licensed and have a bond? A. wonderful marketing tools. We auction coins. Anything not sold at auction, why can I go home and use online auction without a license? A. nobody trying to keep from selling, easy to get a license. Q. Do you have an auction license, online? A. no Why take 7 year law something that's working just fine. Why change it now? Chairman: received compromise then but auctioneers always wanted online auctions require license.

*5) Paul Morrissette owns an auction business in Franklin supports business

This is needed legislation has to face reality of current climate of online sales, over state borders transactions, etc. I sell at my auctions and my buyers sell on online auctions. How will the board keep track of the many items sold on eBay, who's selling under 18 years old Explained being an auctioneer apprentice compared to an online auction. Many tasks not needed for online transactions. There are 23 states not requiring licensing. This is a disappearing business in NH. If I'm doing online auctions through a few services, they do most of the process. It makes my items under auction accessible nationally.

6) Steve Schofield opposes the bill

I expect my competition to play the same way I'm obligated to. Sometimes I'm working to auction a life's worth of items. Why have different standards for in person vs. online?

Rep. Abel: if this is defeated, how will you deal with competitors outside the state? A. NH can't control out of state jurisdictions.

Rep. Luneau: What's the license fee? A. 2 level process NH licenses are less than non-NH residents. Q. minimum age of auctioneer: do see this could be changed given ? A. have to be 18 to sign a contract.

Rep. Ferriera: What are the fees? A. May be same resident, nonresident about $100 for 2-year license. Q. How many in NH A. 209 NH individuals, 400 out of state (as of Jan 2018 licensing)

7) Deirdre Byers opposes the bill

The intention of this bill that those in NH take others products to auction online need to be licensed. Most auctioneers around the country also do online auctions. The RSA doesn't preclude other than public outcry. On eBay, must be 18 or older. The business is changing; we all have to advertise. May not tag, but we have to take pictures selling online.

Blue Sheet SIGN UP SHEET

To Register Opinion If Not Speaking

Bill # Date CJ ---0? '—/.29 Committee

** Please Print All Information **

(check one) Name Address Phone Representing Pro Con

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Testi pony You may have heard from the NH Board of Auctioneers and NH Auctioneers Association that SB 316 (The regulating of on-line auctions) will be of the utmost danger to the consumers of this state. That this legislation will take away all consumer protections. The fact is, that is not the case, consumer protections are enforced by the Attorney Generals' office through the consumer protection division. They always have been and they will remain.

What you may not have heard is that I went to the board and inquired if they regulated the internet auctions, because in 2017, they sent out (2) Cease and Desist orders for on-line auctions. I was concerned for the liability for the State if they were not working within the legislative scope of their duties. I was informed that they felt they did have the right to regulate. Having discussed this with the Secretary of State I learned that he did not feel this was the necessarily the case.

The Cease and Desist orders went out to FedEx and Redeployed Materials of Milton Mills NH.

In both of these cases these cease and desist orders were sent for perceived infractions to on line auction laws. Fed Ex for advertising they would send your items to a company who would place it on Ebay for you for a price and Redeployed Materials for holding an on-line auction of other people's equipment without being licensed. These both were done within accordance of the statute of the State.

There are 21 states that do not even have licensing of auctioneers, including NY and California, two of the most regulated states in the country. There are 42 states that do not regulate internet auctions. Yet with all this, we have a board that contends they do. Therefore I have proposed this legislation, SB 316 in order to codify what should have been the practice.

You might hear that there are dangers in not regulating on-line auctions. Unscrupulous people are lurking in the background just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting consumers and that only the long arm of government regulation and oversight will prevent your grandmother from getting cheated on a tea set.

This is not true. At the present time you have several avenues for liquidating personal assets. They include, you can sell them yourself, consign them to a consignment shop, consign them with an antique dealer, have a group come to your home and hold a tag sale or consign them with an auctioneer or many other ways. The only one of these that need to have oversight by a regulatory licensing board are the auctioneers. There has not been a large outcry from the public with complaints of consignment shops or tag sale operators cheating your Nana. In fact, having checked with the consumer protection division of the AG office I found there wereA complaints filed.

These are the same people who want to place your items for you on one of the many on-line auction sites. The board states they are able to do so using what is construed as a buy it now/ fixed price format. That is where there is a stated price and a buyer can either buy it or make a lesser offer. These people can take possession of your items, offer them for sale, sell them, collect the money, pay you and charge you a commission. BUT..... the auction board further states if you take the same items and place them on the same sites under an auction format where people might maximize the amount they will realize on the sale, you have to be licensed and under the purview of the board of auctioneers. Not only must you be licensed but you must carry a $25,000 bond.

But wait they say, we have a law that says these people can do it without being licensed!

The board will state that you can now sell items for others on-line. They don't say that you can only do this if you don't take possession of the item nor touch the money directly. How is a business person to sell your item if they can't take it to photograph, hand it or ship it to the seller or collect or pay the money except through an online transmitter?

Section 311-B:13

V. Any individual may, without being licensed, sell the personal property of another individual utilizing a service that assists such individual in accessing an online Internet marketplace, who does not take physical or legal possession of goods being sold, and who does not collect or transmit payment for transactions except by a secure money transmitter or other online payment transaction method. Such an individual may accept an associated fee, provided that such individual does not:

"The board states that statute exempts people who sell their own goods by auction (including online), but they fail to mention the following auction rule. Line (h) of 311-B:13 states that although you can sell your personal property at auction without being licensed, if you buy items to sell at auction you need to be licensed." Auc 501.02 Standards of Conduct

311-B:13 Exceptions. — IV. Any individual may, without being licensed, sell his or her own personal property through competitive , using any electronic or non-electronic means.

(h) Any person attempting to subvert the purpose of RSA 311-B by buying property for auction so as not to be literally selling for another shall be required to comply with the licensing provisions of RSA 311-B:4. Any advertisement of such unlicensed auction shall be prohibited pursuant to RSA 358-G:2(l)

Our Governor, in his state of the state address, spoke of how we were trying to get rid of regulations. 1 did not hear him speak of how we had to create more regulatory hoops for small businesses to jump through.

I think you will find that those who are opposed to this legislation tend to be those who are licensed auctioneers and are frightened of losing a portion of their over regulated business. We do not legislate in order to protect profits for a few.

For these reasons, among others, I ask for your support of SB 316 and your support of the small businesses of NH. ?-:)My name is Paul Morrissette and I own Regal Auction Services in Franklin, NH. My company has been in business for over 30 years and has consigners and buyers from all over the US and abroad. I have held Auction Licenses not only in NH but in Florida and Texas and have Bid Called in over 20 states. We conduct live auctions as well as use out of state Online Auction Service providers such as Invaluable and Live Auctioneers (who alone Services over 4500 auctioneers from all over the world).

I am here to speak briefly in favor of this bill. It would be easy for me to take a protectionist attitude with many of my colleague Licensed NH Auctioneers or the NH Auctioneers Board but that ignores the facts. The NH legislature has been speaking for years about reducing rules and regulations on our businesses in order to make doing business in NH a better experience for us all. This Bill is needed legislation to promote continued success within the rapidly changing auction industry. The auction business, like any other brick and mortar retail business, is having to face the reality of the internet, that among other other issues, is erasing or at the very least blurring state borders and testing the authority of State Auctioneers boards who have no jurisdiction outside of their own states. e the 10

When this Bill was in the Senate Judiciary the NH Auctioneers Board testified that they do not require EBay sellers to be licensed. I disagree. assume they mean RSA 311-B:3-4 which reads:

311-B:13 Exceptions. — IV. Any individual may, without being licensed, sell his or her own personal property through competitive bidding, using any electronic or non-electronic means.

The original intent of this was to allow an individual to sell his estate and his own "PERSONAL" estate possessions without having to pay an auctioneer. It was never intended to allow individuals to have a business and to buy merchandise with the intent to resell it on online auctions(which literally didn't exist when this rule was considered) to make a commission or to sell goods you bought for a profit at Internet auction. Just like eBay sellers Auctioneers like myself don't just make money on consignments but often buy large volumes of items (which would therefore technically be owned personally) to resell for profit at their auctions. Unlicensed car dealers today sell cars at auction on eBay they own. They are buying cars and auctioning them for profit. Thousands do in every category. The board neither has the authority or resources to Police the Internet. We should never create laws we cannot enforce. This Bill codifies the intent left vague by this rule.

Another problem is if the Board were to require NH Auctioneer's Licenses for online auctions such as Ebay, Invaluable or Live Auctioneers to name a few, my NH dealer buyers who buy at my Live auctions and sell online would be at a great disadvantage to any out of state competitors who can come to NH auctions and buy without the burden and oversight of having to have a NH Auctioneer's License to sell at any online auctions. It is illogical and counterproductive to create NH Laws that restrict and burden in state businesses while at the same time giving advantages to out of state businesses for the purchase and sales of the exact same goods bought at NH Auctions.

At our auctions I sell to hundreds of NH residents who make a good living buying at local live auctions and selling on internet auctions. If the board were to regulate online auctions their authority would only extend to those residing or working in our state. Out of state competitors would not have that same restriction.

I am very happy to see this legislation that will protect NH citizens and clearly delineate that online auctions are not the same as live sales. Also, I have a couple of very logical questions I would like the State or the Auctioneers Board to consider in the event we choose to potentially license all online auctions and online sellers:

1. Where is NH going to get the resources to provide oversight and actions against the countless thousands of items auctioned online weekly from thousands of NH online sellers? The actual items sold weekly by NH Licensed Auctioneers in Live Auctions is Paltry by comparison. Without equal oversight of everyone licensed in NH (which online is virtual impossibility) then fair and equitable treatment and application of the law to all licensed auctioneers is a pipe dream.

2. Since Minors(under 18 years of age) won't be allowed to hold NH Auctioneers Licences but do sell on eBay (I know one who sells baseball cards and comic books) then how will the Auctioneers Board be able to identify which eBay sellers are minors and how are they going to then stop them from selling in online auctions and somehow penalize them? Good Luck!

3. How is the NH Auctioneers Board going to License National concerns like Goodwill and Sears (who both sell on eBay) who have locations in NH but sell unlicensed in online auctions? Recently Sears alone was offering over 117,000 items on eBay. My understanding according to Senate testimony by Board Member Russ Abbot, if hypothetically a seller seller (Sears for example) has Goods that they are offering for online auctions and if even one item is physically located in NH then they will have to have a NH Auctioneers license. It shows how convoluted and tone deaf we have become.

4. Pil=w5i*aae the 9 responsibilities that are required by an auctioneers apprentice that they shall participate in, in order to even be able to TITLE XXX OCCUPATIONS AND PROFESSIONS CHAPTER 311-B AUCTIONEERS Section 311-B:13 311-B:13 Exceptions. — I. This chapter shall not apply to any auctions held by order or judgment of any court of the state or the United States or by any officer of a municipality, county, state of United States, sales by mortgagees, lienholders, or holders of any other kinds of security interests in real, personal, or mixed property or to sales conducted or made by sheriffs, deputy sheriffs, constables, collectors of taxes, executors, administrators, guardians, conservators, receivers, assignees under voluntary assignments for the benefit of creditors or insurers, or by any other person required by law to sell real, personal, or mixed property, or as permitted under any other state or federal law.

Churches, charities, II. Any resident member of a charitable, educational, religious or other nonprofit organization within the state may conduct a & non-profits, charity auction without a license for that organization, so long as the individual is not a member of the organization solely for including political the purpose of conducting the charity auction, and so long as the individual receives no compensation or other consideration parties for conducting the auction.

III. [Repealed.]

Selling your own IV. Any individual may, without being licensed, sell his or her own personal property through competitive bidding, using any property. electronic or non-electronic means.

e-bay Helpers that V. Any individual may, without being licensed, sell the personal property of another individual utilizing a service that assists do not take such individual in accessing an online Internet marketplace, who does not take physical or legal possession of goods being possession of the sold, and who does not collect or transmit payment for transactions except by a secure money transmitter or other online item, nor the payment transaction method. Such an individual may accept an associated fee, provided that such individual does not: money. (a) Represent by any verbal statement, sign, letterhead, card, or any other way that he or she is an auctioneer or able to perform auctioneering services; or

(b) Use or otherwise assume in conjunction with the personal name, or advertise any title or description tending to convey the impression that such person is an auctioneer licensed under this chapter.

Source. 1969, 469:1. 1987, 274:8. 2010, 291:12, eff. Jan. 1, 2011. ROBERT L. BEST Sulloway D (603)223-2812 O (603)224-2341 F (603)223-2912 Hollis „„ E [email protected] COUNSELORS AT LAW

www.sulloway.com 9 Capitol Street, Concord, New Hampshire 03301

March 28, 2018

Hon. John Hunt, Chairman And Members of the House Commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee New Hampshire House Legislative Office Building, Room 302 107 North Main Street Concord, NH 03301

Re: Oppose SB 316 (exempting Internet auctions)

Dear Chairman Hunt, and Honorable Members of the Committee,

I write on behalf of the New Hampshire Auctioneers Association ("NHAA") to express NHAA's opposition to SB 316, which would establish that all online auctions are exempt from RSA 311-B, and therefore all state oversight. The NHAA opposes this bill because it eliminates critical consumer protection for online auctions.

Our understanding is that supporters of SB 316 have indicated that the bill simply codifies existing state law, or, alternatively, that it is an important pro-business bill that will somehow help auctioneers do business in New Hampshire. The bill does neither of those things, however it does upset a carefully crafted balance struck by the legislature in 2010, when the current law (RSA 311-B) was adopted. Back then, the idea of exempting online auctions from state regulation was considered and rejected. The New Hampshire legislature recognized in 2010 the dangers of not regulating online auctions when it debated and passed RSA ch. 311-B. Those dangers have not disappeared in the few years since the legislature has examined this issue.

Background first. RSA 311-B requires licensure for individuals (not companies or websites) who act as auctioneers in New Hampshire. Auctioneers, for a fee, conduct an auction sale of property belonging to others. An Auction by definition is a sale where the sale price increases by competitive bid. Most sales are not auctions, and most sellers are not auctioneers. The existing statute exempts people who sell their own goods by auction (including online), as well as online services that assist sellers, but do not take possession of the item, nor handle the payment directly. Fixed price sales are not auctions, even when they occur on e-bay. Private parties selling their own items by online auction are not required to be licensed auctioneers, even if the private party is a giant retailer like Amazon or Sears. Some examples that are already exempt from regulation under RSA 311-B include an individual selling his baseball cards (or other property) by auction on e-bay, or a retail business that regularly sells it goods online in an auction format, even if the business purchases goods specifically for auction. Charitable and

A./-5635, ,,Serving Clients and Communities fir more than 160 Years NEW HAMPSHIRE I MASSACHUSETTS I RHODE ISLAND I MAINE I VERMONT Individual attorneys not licensed in all states March 28, 2018 Page 2 non-profit groups (including political parties) are already permitted to hold benefit auctions conducted by members, without a license. That law is already codified in RSA 311-B, and is not advanced by SB 316.

The online auction and auctioneer that remains subject to New Hampshire regulation today is the auctioneer that accepts consignment of the consumer's goods and auctions them online. That auctioneer often has possession of the consumer's property. That auctioneer often receives payment for the item and is entrusted to turn the money over to the consumer. A licensed NH Auctioneer has to have a fidelity bond in place to guarantee payment to the consumer. Unlicensed auctioneers who are not subject to such requirements can cause harm, if SB316 is adopted. That auctioneer should be licensed in order to protect the consumer, but SB 316 would do away with licensure and consumer protection. 513316 isn't codifying current law, it is radically changing it.

What SB 316 does is broadly sweep away licensure requirements for a giant swath of the auction industry based solely on the fact that an auction takes place online. That is not business friendly; it is giving half the industry an advantage over the live, in person licensed New Hampshire auctioneer. Recall that RSA 311-B regulates auctioneers in order to prevent scams, frauds, and thefts by dubious auctioneers. Clearly there is nothing about the internet venue that reduces fraud, theft, and scams or otherwise justifies deregulation of online auctions. One might argue that online auctions are ripe for increased regulation, rather than deregulation. Although we don't advocate for increased regulation of the online auction, we certainly cannot see the justification for punishing the New Hampshire business person who conducts live auctions by regulating the live auctioneer and turning his or her online competition free without regulation or consumer protection.

It's true that a wide array of auctions and auctioneers are beyond the reach of New Hampshire's regulatory control. Some bad actors are located in other states or countries, and some are regulated under loose requirements by jurisdictions that do not take consumer protection as seriously as does New Hampshire. We can't change that, however, we can control what happens in our state. Our existing regulatory scheme is working for New Hampshire, and we have a thriving auction industry in this state. Because we have a robust regulatory framework, we also very rarely have an auctioneer engage in wrongful acts that would result in discipline. Regulation is working.

For these reasons, the New Hampshire Auctioneers Association urges you to vote against SB 316. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Robert L. Best

[C1756551.1 ) Bill Introduced SB 316 - AS AMENDED BY THE SENATE 02/15/2018 0507s 2018 SESSION 18-2873 05/01

SENATE BILL 316

AN ACT relative to the regulation of online auctions.

SPONSORS: Sen. French, Dist 7; Sen. Reagan, Dist 17

COMMITTEE: Commerce

AMENDED ANALYSIS

This bill exempts auctions conducted over the Internet from the requirements of RSA 311-B.

Explanation: Matter added to current law appears in bold italics. Matter removed from current law appears [ Matter which is either (a) all new or (b) repealed and reenacted appears in regular type. SB 316 - AS AMENDED BY THE SENATE 02/15/2018 0507s 18-2873 05/01

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Eighteen AN ACT relative to the regulation of online auctions.

Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:

1 1 New Paragraph; Auctioneers; Exceptions; Internet Auctions. Amend RSA 311-B:13 by 2 inserting after paragraph V the following new paragraph: 3 VI. Any auction conducted over the Internet shall be exempt from the requirements of this 4 chapter. 5 2 Effective Date. This act shall take effect 60 days after its passage.