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AG3368-F26-001-Jpeg.Pdf Adrian Friedman Constitutional Court Oral History Project 18th January 2012 Int This is an interview with Adrian Friedman and it’s the 18th of January, 2012. Adrian, thank you so much for agreeing to participate in the Constitutional Court Oral History Project. AF My pleasure. Int I wondered if you could talk about early childhood in terms of family and intellectual development, as well as a sense of key events that may have formulated your interest in the legal trajectory as well as issues around social justice? AF Okay. I grew up in Johannesburg, I went to a government primary school, just near where we lived, and then a Jewish day school for high school. Then I took a year off after that and studied in Cape Town for a while and then I did my law degree in Johannesburg. I guess from a social justice…as far as your question about social justice is concerned, my father is a political analyst, and when I was growing up was a journalist, and he is very interested in, and has always had a strong sense of social justice which he passed onto all of his children. My mother is a trained attorney, who now acts in the human rights and public interest law sector. So she also has had a long history of being involved in the law and also in social justice issues. So I just think…I don’t think either of them went out of their way to indoctrinate me in that sense or to try and persuade me to go in one or other direction. I think it’s just more a case of both of them had a strong sense of social justice, and I think at least part of it rubbed off on me to an extent. I wouldn’t say that my mother’s being an attorney made me be keen to be a lawyer. It’s really one of those things where I just got sort of taken in that direction. It wasn’t like I grew up dying to be a lawyer. It really just…I just got almost dragged in that direction after school really, and then I developed a passion for it while I was studying. Int I’m also curious, growing up in South Africa at the stage that you did, how much of sort of racial disparity and social injustice and an apartheid narrative were you privy to growing up? AF Well…so my school was a government school, so it was all white, until standard five, now called grade seven, when there was actually a referendum of parents about opening the school. The majority voted yes, and then there were a few black children admitted when I was in standard five, but very few. So until then I had no access to black people…well, black children as peers. I was very…well, I was conscientised about apartheid to a great degree by my parents. My father in particular was very…it was a constant… theme that we just picked up on. He was very obviously politically active…I wouldn’t say 1 active, because he was never an activist or an ANC member or any of that, but he was very active in political issues, which just rubbed off on us, so I myself had a great interest in politics as much as a child can, but because of him. And we were close and so I was very interested in those sort of issues. So knowledge of apartheid and its injustice was an on-going thing for me because of my parents. Int And I’m also curious, in terms of the year that the school opened up, the referendum, was it towards the unbanning or was it previously? AF Ja, so I was in standard five in ’91, so it was after Mandela was released and…but it was before the national referendum on whether to proceed with negotiations, which was in ’92, if I recall. So I’m not quite sure the exact legal basis for the referendum, but that’s just my weakness on history at the moment. But I mean, I’m sure…you know, it was part of the…it was certainly after Mandela was released. Int And I also wondered, in terms of a legal trajectory, did that happen instantaneously or did you have to find your way before you came to study law? AF Well, I was a little bit of a sort of lost soul in the sense of I didn’t really know what I wanted to do after school, and I was lucky, I suppose, in a way, to be surrounded by…to have a group of friends, one of whom in particular was very influential on me, who was very driven, and very motivated, just to succeed. In fact, in his case, financially. But, you know, he, for example, started his own business and then gave the business up in order to study a BCom and sort of made it his goal to get distinctions in every subject and things like that, and he and I just spoke a lot and he recommended to me to try law out. And at that stage I really didn’t have much of a passion for it or anything like that, I just wanted to do a degree which would be a serious professional degree. And then I started…and because of his approach, I too started with the intention of doing as well possibly academically as I could, and then as soon as I started doing that, when you’re applying yourself in that way to your subjects, you obviously…it’s very hard to do it unless you start developing an interest for it. And so it came in that way, the interest then came from that. And then as my degree progressed I developed a very strong interest in it, which then led to coming here…well, coming to clerk at the Court and then later on working in a human rights NGO. So it was really a flip…you know, it wasn’t like some people who start out with a passion for social justice issues and decide, well, the way to achieve it might be as a lawyer, or whatever. It was the other way around. I sort of started doing it and then developed the passion. 2 Int I’m also curious… you mentioned that you had gone to Cape Town to study, was that at UCT (University of Cape Town)? Did you start your law degree there? AF No…well, yes and no. It was yes, it was at UCT (University of Cape Town), but not a law degree. I took a year off completely after matric and worked for my friend’s business, and inconsequential jobs, bookstore and things like that, and then I decided to do a BA (Bachelor of Arts) at UCT. So I went and did the BA at UCT but I came back to Johannesburg to do the LLB. And in fact I didn’t even complete my BA at UCT. So after two years I abandoned the BA at UCT, came to Johannesburg, and because I was a bit older than a lot of people, I decided to do the straight four-year LLB (rather than doing another degree first) just to save time. Int And you were at the University of the Witwatersrand? AF Ja. Int And I wondered whether you could talk about the legalistic bent at the university at the time in terms of the law school? Was there an element of human rights, constitutionalism, public interest law? AF There was…there was some…there still are, to an extent, but much more then, some leading public law academics. So people like Cora Hoexter, who is a leader in administrative law, is still there and was there when I was there. Iain Currie, Jonathan Klaaren, so there were some big names from a constitutional law point of view. I wouldn’t say that constitutionalism and human rights issues was necessarily sort of deeply…you know, a huge focus or a noteworthy focus. There was, and still is, a Law Clinic, which was run and is run by a man called Peter Jordi, who is extremely effective and very, very, very committed to social justice issues. In his own way. He’s quite an eccentric guy, but…and so in final year when I was in the Law Clinic that came through very strongly. But before that it was more really a case of just, if you had an interest in it there were good people to teach you, but, you know, I wouldn’t say there was anything necessarily particularly overt to try and encourage people to move into that sphere. But if you were interested in it of your own accord there were certainly great people to encourage you and to help develop an interest in it. Int I understand that you spent some time at the Legal Resources Centre, and I wondered whether that interest in the Legal Resources Centre and public interest law developed there at Wits, at the Law Clinic? 3 AF No, I would say more through my time as a clerk at the Court actually. The Law Clinic was a good opportunity to see work which is not dissimilar to what the LRC (Legal Resources Centre) did; the method is different but the way one would consult, the way one would take instructions, etc, was very similar, but I wouldn’t say I went to the Law Clinic and then suddenly decided I wanted to go to the Legal Resources Centre.
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