Tuesday September 2 2003, 2.00 Pm: PC Jonathan Martyn, Vanessa Hunt, David Bartlett, Barnabus Leith, Professor Hawton POLICE
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Tuesday September 2 2003, 2.00 pm: PC Jonathan Martyn, Vanessa Hunt, David Bartlett, Barnabus Leith, Professor Hawton POLICE CONSTABLE JONATHAN MARTYN SAWYER (recalled) Examined by MR KNOX (continued) LORD HUTTON: Yes Mr Knox. MR KNOX: My Lord, I propose to recall Mr Sawyer to briefly deal with one point. LORD HUTTON: Yes, come back please. MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer, you will recall that this morning you said that amongst Dr Kelly's things that had been found on the search of the premises was a photograph which I think you said might have aroused some interest. I wonder if you could tell us something about the photograph that was found. A. Certainly. It was found in the study of Dr Kelly at 11.45 by one of my searchers, PC Slyfield. It was seized because, at the time, it showed Dr Kelly and another person standing outside the Parliament building in Moscow. It was after the coup in Moscow and the Parliament building showed a certain amount of damage. The photograph was in fact dated 11th of the 8th 1993. PC Slyfield showed it to DC Burton who was the Special Branch officer with him and they both agreed the second person in the photograph bore a very striking resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. The photograph was then seized and produced as an exhibit. That is what I was referring to in my statement. Q. What have subsequent inquiries revealed about that photograph? A. Subsequent inquiries, I have spoken to PC Slyfield on the phone, and I have also spoken to a DS McGuire at the Long Hanborough incident room. PC Slyfield states that, in his opinion, the person has a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan. DS McGuire is of the opposite opinion, that it does not look like Andrew Gilligan; and, as a consequence, the photograph is being brought up tomorrow by ACC Page for the Inquiry to actually look at. Q. Your current understanding of the position is that it is or is not Mr Gilligan? A. On the -- I saw the photograph but very, very briefly. I can form no opinion either way. LORD HUTTON: So it was really seized by the police because it was thought it bore a resemblance to Andrew Gilligan, that is as far as it goes? A. Yes, and the date on the photograph being 1993 which is some 11 years ago when it was. LORD HUTTON: Yes. Very well. Thank you very much. MR KNOX: Mr Sawyer can I ask you this: as far as you are aware, what is the current view of the police force about this photograph? A. The current view of the police force is it has been retained as an exhibit to be produced before this Inquiry. As to the identity of the second person in the photograph, that is a matter for the Inquiry to make its mind up. I must say that DS McGuire has also said he has been unable to actually speak to Mr Gilligan to verify the veracity of the photograph in question up to this point. LORD HUTTON: Yes. Thank you very much Mr Sawyer. A. Thank you my Lord. MR DINGEMANS: Ms Hunt, please. MS VANESSA ELIZABETH HUNT (called) Examined by MR DINGEMANS Q. Can you tell his Lordship your full name? A. Vanessa Elizabeth Hunt. Q. What is your occupation? A. I am a paramedic. Q. Were you on duty on 18th July? A. Yes I was. Q. What time did you start work? A. 0700 hours. Q. And where were you based at the time? A. At Abingdon ambulance station. Q. Did you have any calls that morning? A. Yes, we did. Q. Did you have any call relating to Dr Kelly? A. Yes. Q. What time did you get that call? A. At 0940 hours to the ambulance station. Q. What were you asked to do? A. We were asked to mobilise towards Southmoor for a male patient but we were given no more details at that time. Q. So, did you set off? A. Yes, we did. Q. In an ambulance? A. In an ambulance with my colleague Dave Bartlett. Q. And you drove to Southmoor? A. Yes. Q. Did anyone meet you there? A. On the way we were given some more information on our data screens. Q. What did that say? A. It just said that we were attending the address -- Harrowdown Hill in Longworth for a male believed to be a kilo 1 which is actually deceased, and the Thames Valley Police were on the scene. Q. When you arrived on the scene was anyone there? A. Yes, there were a number of police officers. Q. Do you remember how many? A. Just lots and there was police vehicles there as well. Q. Did you drive off the public road? A. We parked up at the end of the public road, I do not know the name of the road. Q. And you proceeded on foot? A. Yes. Q. Who had met you? A. There was an officer in regulation clothing who directed us to two or three other officers in combat trousers and black polo shirts and we followed them along the track. Q. You followed them along the track? A. Yes. Q. And where did that lead to? A. To a wooded area that was on the left of the track. Q. And once you got to the wooded area did you stay on the outside of the wood? A. Initially there were three people on the track, what I now know to be detective constable, one was the search and rescue and there was another gentleman there. The police officers that we had followed stopped and spoke to them and then we followed the two chaps up into the wooded area. Q. And when you got into the wooded area, what did you see? A. There was a male on his back, feet towards us. Q. Yes. A. And no obvious signs of life. Q. Was there anything marking your route in to the body? A. As we walked into the wooded area the police officers were marking a route off with metal posts. We just walked behind them. Q. And can you describe what was being worn by the man? A. It was -- it looked like a wax type jacket, dark colour. Q. Yes. A. A shirt and I believe jeans, but I cannot be certain of the lower clothing. He also had a pair of boots or trainer cross type footwear on. Q. Could you see anything on the body itself? A. On his left arm, which was outstretched to the left of him, there was some dry blood. Q. Did you go towards the body? A. We stood behind the police officers while they took photographs. Then once they had taken the photographs I went to the right side of the body and my colleague went to the left side. Q. And what was done to check for signs of life? A. My colleague lifted the eyelids to check for pupil reaction, also felt the gentleman's neck for a carotid pulse and I initially placed the heart monitor paddles on to the chest over the top of his shirt. Q. Did you get any reading at all? A. There was some artefact reading I believed to be from myself as opposed to the body, so we said to the police officers would it be possible to place four sticky electrodes on to the chest, to verify that life was extinct. Q. What did the police say to you? A. Could they just take some more photographs before we undid the shirt, which they then did. My colleague unbuttoned the shirt and I placed the four electrodes on to the chest, two on the upper part of the chest and two underneath the rib cage area. Q. Did you connect those electrodes to anything? A. To the heart monitor. Q. What did that show? A. That showed asystole which is a flat line. Q. What does that mean? A. It means there is no cardiac output and life is extinct. Q. Did you declare life extinct? A. We pronounced we were unable to certify but we said, yes, that, you know ... Q. What did you do with the strips from the machine? A. Took three strips and handed them all to the police officer. Q. And what did the strips show? A. Just a flat line. Q. And having carried out those activities, what did you do then? A. I said would they like us to leave the electrodes in situ, they requested that we did, remove the leads from the chest and left the shirt unbuttoned. Q. Did you yourself move the body at all? A. The only part of the body we moved was Dr Kelly's right arm, which was over the chest, to facilitate us to place the fourth lead on to the chest. It was just lifted slightly from the body. Q. Right. And do you recall, now, what Dr Kelly was wearing? A. As I say, a dark coloured wax jacket, a shirt and I believe it to be jeans, but I am not certain. Q. Right. And anything on his feet? A. Trainers or cross trainer/boot type footwear. Q. Right. And did you see anything on the ground? A. There was a silver bladed knife, a wristwatch, which was off of the wrist. Q. Yes. A. And, oh, a water bottle, a small water bottle stood up to the left side of Dr Kelly's head.