2 "JIB Questions and Answers. [ASSE:fifBLY ..J Ques:ions and Answers. iGr!JiXihtttbr Au;;;.emhly. p::-evicus question by the hon. mem­ ber for Leichhardt, the capital in­ Wednesday> 0 November> 1938. debtedness to the State has been fixed at £800,000. The total capital expenditure exceeds £2,000,000. ( 4) Section 19 of Printed Questions 1 and Answers-Questions without Notice--Industrial Employees: Annual Holi­ the J.VIeat Industry Act gives certain . days-The Budget (Fifth Day's Debate). rights to the Sydney }feat Preserving Company Limited and Riverstone !feat Mr. SPEAKER took the chair. Company Proprietary Limited, and also to other premises within the county of The OJ?ening Prayer was read. Cumberland, but outside an approximate radius of 15 miles from the State abat­ PRINTED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. toir, which have been continuously oc­ cupied since 1st March, 1916. That sec­ HO:M:EBUSH ABATTOIR. tion of the Act was amended in 1934. Mr. :fifATTHEWS asked the J.VfrNis­ TER FOR HEALTH,-(1) Is it a fact that EXCHAXGE OF DIPROVE:\iENT at the present time all stock killed for LEASES l~OR FOREST LEASES. local sale and export within a radius Mr. DAVIDSON asked the SECRE­ of 15 miles from Flemington must be TARY FOR LA:-ms,-Is it a fact (1) That slaughtered at the Homebush Abattoir? improvement leases numbers 1842 to (2) Is it further a fact that all stock 1846, parish of Hermitage Plains, :so killed is rigidly inspected by duly county of Flinders, Nyngan land dis­ qualified meat inspectors and veterinary trict, formerly held by the Australian ·surgeons to safeguard the public against Estate and J.VIortgage Company have diseased meat being sold? (3) Is it a now expired? (2) That an effort is being fact that the Government has £1,350,000 made by interested pe-rsons to have these invested in the Homebush Abattoir? leases exchanged for forest leases? (3) ( 4) If the answers to the foregoing ques­ That there is no timber of commercial tions are in the affirmative will he con­ value on the land proposed to be ex­ .;hanged? ( 4) That the improvement sider the advisability of extending tbe eonditions of the leases have not been radius for compulsory killing at Homc­ fulfilled? (5) That, should the ex­ ~ush to embrace the whole of the county change be granted, there is a probabil­ vi Cumberland, to protect the consum­ ity that the proposed forest reserves will ·mg public by giving them disease-fre9 be leased by landholders in excess of a ~neat, and at the same time protect the living area? ( 6) That there are a num­ --revenues of the State, which are in­ ber of settlers in the vicinity of the ex­ ·volved in the capital invested in the pired leases who have less than a living cabattoir? area? (7) That the small landholders are anxious to obtain additionals to Answer,-(1) It is not a fact that all make up a living area? (8) That an stock killed for local sale and export effort is being made to prevent this mat­ within a radius of 15 miles from Flem­ ter being dealt with before the local ington must be slaughtered at the State land board? (9) vVill he prevent any Abattoir. The Sydney Meat Preserv­ exchange being granted before it is dealt ing Company's works are situated only with by the local land board? a few miles from Flemington, and there Answer,-(1) Yes. (2) One formal ;ne also a few other premises within the proposal has been made and there is Eome reason to expect others, to ex­ radius mentioned which are licensed to change privately held land for parts of slaughter. (2) All stock killed at the land formerly held under these licensed premises is inspected for the leases. (3) An inspection is now in purpose of safeguarding the public progress by an officer of this depart­ health. (3) As advised in reply to a ment and, pending receipt of his report, Questions and Answers. [9 Nov., 1938.] Questions and Answers. 2519

I am not in a position to say what tim­ in their rationed period to work three ber of commercial value is upon this and one-fifth hours, volunteered to work land. The Forestry Commission has, extra time so that the total time lost however, asked that part of the land of thirteen one-fifth hours would be com­ held under improvement lease 1842 pleted in the week. This is not a prac­ should be dedicated as a State forest. tice and was permitted on this occasion ( 4) The leases were inspected as to ful­ because of special circumstances. (3) filment of conditions on 31st August, No men were requested to start work 1937, and the position disclosed was re­ early or to work late. It is reported that garded as generally satisfactory. (5) a lunch hour meeting was held on 2nd If any of this land should be dedicated November and as far as the department .as a State forest the administration of is aware there was no resolution of pro­ leases over it would be a matter for the test. Forestry Commission. (6) Yes. (7) J\!any requests for this land to be made available for additional holdings have QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE. been received and will be given careful UNE~fPLOYED SINGLE MEN. consideration. (8) I am not aware. of anv such effort. (9) Any exchange propos;] Mr. BADDELEY: Can the Minis­ will, as a matter of course, be submittP'1 ter representing the 11:inister for to the land board for inquiry and report. Labour and Industry say whether it will be possible to give the unem­ ployed sing-le men of this State two WORKE\G CONDI'EIONS OF RELIEF wed;:s work before the Christmas holi­ WORKERS. days? JIIIr. HEFFRON asked the ~'[r~rSTER ~fr. .FOR \Vonr~s AXD LocAL GovER::-11IEXT,­ RICHARDSON: Statements (1) Has he given approval to relief wor­ have already been made by the leader kers being "·orked twelve hours a day of the Government and in this House to make up time lost through wet wea­ as to what the Government proposes to ther? (2) Is it a fact that men on do by way of Christmas assistaE.ce to the Drummoyne job were asked by the those who stand in need of it. I cannot ganger on 31st October to begin work carry the matter beyond that. at 5.30 a.m. and to continue till 6.15 p.m. with a break of forty-five minutes HOSPITALS: HOXORARY APPOINT­ for lunch? (3) Is it a fact that the MENTS. men agreed, through fear of victimisa­ tion if they refused; but that at a lunch­ JYir. SANDERS: Is the Minister for hour meeting on 1st November they Health vet able to inform the House unanimously carried a resolution pro­ with reg~rd to the position as affecting testing against the practice and asking the Royal North Shore Hospital man­ that it be stopped? agement and the appointment of present and past honorary medical officers, and Answer,-(1) No. (2) All men on can he say whether the report asked for this 1\ork lost thirteen and} one-fifth {rom the Crown Solicitor has been fur­ hours owing to wet weather in week nished? If so, can he state its nature? ended 27th October, 1938. During the following week it was necessary to carry Mr. FITZSIMONS: The report from out certain work because of favourable the Crown Solicitor was received by me tidal conditions prior to the usual com­ yesterday eYening at about 5 o'clock, and mencing time of 7.30 a.m. Ten men will now be considered by the Hospitals volunteered to start at 5.30 a.m. provided Commission which I have given instruc­ that they would be paid for the addi­ tions is to be called together for that pur­ tional time over and above their normal pose. After the Commission has given ·hours as an off-set against time lost consideration to the report, I will make during their first week. In addition, a statement to the House dealing with three men rather than return to wo:·k the whole position. 2520 Questions and Answers. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions and Answers.

GOULBURN HOSPITAL. CHRISTMAS PARCELS: PENSIONERS. Mr. TULLY: Can the Minister for Mr. W. DAVIES: Can the Minister Health say whether it is a fact that con­ for Social Services say whether it is a siderable delay has occurred in connec­ fact that in 1936, Christmas parcels were tion with the preparation of plans and sent out to dole recipients and old age specifications for additions to the Gaul­ and invalid pensioners, and were appre­ burn Hospital, and is he now in a posi­ ciated by them? Is it the intention of tion to state definitely when the con­ the Minister this Christmas to send out structional work can be put in hand? similar parcels? I£ not, will the 111:in­ I£ the matter is likely to be further ister approach the Federal Government held up, will he see that the appoint­ with a view to getting it to send out ment of extra draftsmen is made by tht: parcels to old age and invalid pen­ department so that delays may be ob­ sioners? viated? :Mr. RICHARDSON: It was the prac·­ Mr. FITZSIMONS: I know of no tice to supply the articles to which the Teason for further delay since I last com­ hon. member refers at a time when municated with the hon. membo· on this additional food relief was 'granted. subject. The hon. member will be aware That was at Christmas, but since that that there are no draftsmen, architects, time there haE, been an alteration in th<3 or technicians of any kind attached to system. Under the new system a cash the Department of Public Health. For payment is made, because it is con­ services we rely entirely on the Depart­ sidered better that the persons· concerned ment of Public \Vorks, which is con­ should receive the money to spend in trolled by my colleague. the way they desire. The other portior~ of the hon. member's question is a mat­ CHAIN DRUG STORES. ter for the Federal Government. Mr. TONKING: In Yiew of the re­ port of 1\Ir. Justice Browne, dealing ~fr. W. DAVIES: Will the Minister with chain drug stores, will the Pre­ approach the Federal Government on mier consider bringing down legislation the question ? to regulate the establishment of chem­ ~fr. RICHARDSON: I am not pre­ ists' shops and provide for their regis­ .pared, at this stage, to say what I can tration? Further, will the Government do. take precautions to protect the assets and businesses of established chemists, particularly in country centres, who will TRAFFIC CON'l'ROL: POINT DUTY. be subjected to severe competition as Mr. ARDILL: Can the Colonial Sec­ a result of the indiscriminate establish­ retary say whether it is a fact that this ment of chain drug stores. morning an inspector of police did point :Mr. STEVENS: Mr. Justice Browne's duty in Elizabeth-street at Eddy-avenue, report is only just available. Person­ near the Central Railway Station? If ally, I have not yet read it, and I do not it is a fact, does it indicate a shortage think my colleagues have. I am depend­ ent entirely upon this morning's press of police and, if so, will the Minister reports as to its contents. I will make see that the force is immediately aug­ the report available as soon as it can be mented~ printed in a form that will enable hon. Ur. GOLLAN: I am not aware of the members readily to understand it. I am matter to which the hon. member refers, fully alive to the importance of the but he and the public can rest assured issues with which it deals, and Cabinet that the police force, under the guidin:; will be only too .glad to give considera­ hand of Mr. Mackay, is capable of cop­ tion to nny o:f the questions that arise out of or deal with th0 report and, in ing with all requirements. I feel cer­ particlJlar, to tl1e r1uestion raised by the tain that he is able to police the State hon. me!1lbfl' for Orange. efficiently. Questions and Answers. [9 Nov., 1938.] Questions and Answers. 2521

LOT SPLITTING: WOOL AND STOCK. Tramways has been trying to get a better Captain DTJNN: Will the Premier quote from the people who supply the inform me whether it is, the intention signals. The installation of such sig­ of the Government to bring down legis­ nals at Newcastle is largely dependent lation to regulate lot splitting in con­ upon whether they can be obtained at a nection with the sale of wool and stock? reasonable price. The hon. member Does the Premier know that such legis­ will realise that if someone ''holds lation operates in Victoria very satis­ a gun at the head" of the Government factorily, and will he bring down similar by demanding an unreasonable price for legislation this session? a certain article the Government ought :Mr. STEVENS: Yes. The question not to accede without an effort at reduc­ has been considered by the Govern­ tion. The price asked, in the opinion ment, and it has, been decided to bring of the department, is out of all reason, down the necessary legislation, if pos­ and when we can get a better offer we sible, this session. shall hasten to make the installations.

CROWN h<\.ND DEBTORS: INTEREST THE "WATCHMAN'' NEWS REDUCTION. COMMENT A TOR. Captain CHAFFEY: Can the J\Gnis­ :Mr. WILSON: Will the Premier state ter for Lands say whether it is true, as whether it is a fact that a radio news reported in the press, that it is the commentator on the National Broadcast­ intention of the Government to continue ing network, known as "The Watch­ the 22;} per cent. reduction in the in­ man,'' has been obtruding his personal teres,t rate payable by landholders who views on current events in a manner that are Crown debtors? If so, to what sec­ is likely to subvert the interests of Aus­ tion of Crown debtors ·will the conces­ tralia and the Empire?' Is it also a fact sion apply? that this Western Australian gentleman is none other than the defeated member J\fr. SINCLAIR: It is the intention for Perth, Mr. A. :Mann? Will the of the GoYernment to re-enact the pro· E. Premier confer with the Federal vision giving a remission of 22! per cent. authorities with a view to ensuring that on tenants who are Crown land debtors. all wireless broadcast commentaries on The bill will be brought down in the national and international affairs shall course of a few days. be fair and unbiased?

ELECTR0~1ATIC TRAFFIC SIGNALS: Mr. STEVENS: I am not aware of the NEWCASTLE. general bias of the broadcast observations 1Ir. ARTHUR: Adverting to a ques­ by this anonymous commentator. I tion I asked some time ago relative to have heard his opinions on only one or the installation of electromatic traffic two occasions. I realise the importance control signals at N eiYCas,tle, is the of the hon. member's question and will :Minister for Transport in a position to have it brought to the notice of the say whether the metropolitan require­ Federal authorities for consideration. ments have yet been met? If so, will he indicate when the installations at New­ ABORIGINES PROTECTION BOARD. castle will be made Jl.fr. DAVIDSON: Will the Colonial Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: It is not a Secretary say whether it is the inten­ question of the needs of the metropoli­ tion of the Government to reorganise tan area being met before the installa-· the Aborigines Protection Board? If tions are made at Newcastle. The diffi­ so, does the Government intend to ap­ culty lies: in the cost of the electromatic point an aboriginal to the board as a signals, which are operated from a patl direct representative of his fellow abori­ on the street. The price asked is con­ gines? If not, can the Minster give any sidered to be very high, and the C01\1·· reason why such an appointment should missioner for Road Transport and not be made? 2522 Questions and Answers. [ASSE.M:BLY.] Questions and Answers.

Mr. GOLLAN: It is the intention of I am not sure whether the total amount the Government to appoint a new Abo­ of the concession can be dissected, but I rigines Protection Board. I am still con­ ·will make inquiries on the subject from sidering the number and type of repre­ the Commissioner. I can at least let the sentatives to be appointed to that body. bon. member know the nature of the concession. The purpose is to try to NEWCASTLE-SYDNEY INTER-CITY establish industrial centres in the State EXPRESS. at which young men and women may ob­ :Mr. BOOTH: Has the attention of the tain employment, so obviating the need Minister for Transport been dr-awn to for them to remain in the cities of .Syd­ appeals made by the Lake Jl.facquarie ney and Newcastle. Shire Council and the Toronto Urban Council to have the N ewcastle-·Sydney DUCK SEASON. Inter-City express stop at Fassifern? Is 'JI..fr. TOXGE: I ask the Colonial Sec­ it a fact that business men living at Fassifern or Toronto who desire to catch retary whether it is a fact that the Royal Zoological Society and also the Natural the Inter-City express have to leave their History Society of New South Wales homes at half-past aix. in the morning have protested to him against the early and proceed to Wyong by a slow train? opening of the duck season in the south­ In view of the inconvenience to which west part of the State? Is it also a these people are put, will the Minister consult the Commissioner for RailwayE, fact that this action on the part of the in an endeavour to have it arranged that Minister has resulted in newly-hatched ducklings being left to die of starvation? the express shall stop at Fassifern? I also ask the llfinister whether this is Lt.-Colonel BRUX~ER: I am aware an edifying example to the school­ of the time-table to which the Inter­ children who are encouraged by the City express runs and I have had repre­ Department of Education to protect sentations made to me urging that the birds and animals and whether his action train should stop at Fassifern. I have is not inhuman and unjustifiable? taken up the matter with the Commis­ sioner for Railways who has informed Mr. GOLLAN: I am not aware that me that if such a request were .granted, any representations have been made to it would slow down what is designed to the department other than those which be a fast inter-city connection. Conse­ appeared in the columns of the press quently, he cannot agree to having the yesterday. I will make a statement in train stop at Fassifern. the House with regard to the whole mat-­ ter to-morrow. RAILWAY FREIGHT CONCESSIONS: LEETON JAM MA~UFACTURERS. UNEMPLOYMENT: CHRISTMAS Mr. SANDERS: Can the Minister for RELIEF. Transport say whether a freight conces­ Mr. GORMAN: I ask the Minister sion is given by the Commissioner for for Social Services whether it is a fact Railways to a jam manufacturing co­ that a large number of persons regis· operative concern at Leeton? If so, can tered for relief work are not entitled to be state the amount of the concession food relief because of the operation of and the reason why it is granted? the permissible income regulations? If \Lt.-Colonel BRUX:NER: It is a fact so, will the :Minister extend the proposed that ever since the inception of the cash payment at Christmas time to all cannery on the Irrigation Area, which is persons who are registered for relief now a co-operative venture, certain work? freight concessions have been .granted Mr. RICHARDSON: What the hon. to enable the industry to establish itself member says in relation to registration and operate in proximity to the districts is correct. I think that an announce­ in which fruit and vegetables are grown. ment has already been made in this Questions and Answers. [D Kov., 1938.] Questions and Answers. 2523

House that the same Christmas conces­ POLICE COURTESY SQUAD. sions would be made this year as were Mr. MATTHEWS: I ask the Colonial made last year, and I cannot carry the Secretary whether it is a fact that the matter beyond that. duties of the Police Courtesy Squad, which was dealing with minor infringe­ RACECOURSES: SHILLING FLAT. ments of the traffic regulations, haYe :Mr. J. C. ROSS: Has the Colonial been suspended? If so, will the ~finis­ Secretary given consideration to the ter give serious consideration to the re­ establishment on all metropolitan race­ establishment of that body so that per­ courses of a ls. fiat? Can he sons who commit minor traffic breaches inform the House whether he has con­ may be dealt with as previously? ferred with the proprietors of the vari­ Ur. GOLLAN: Certain sections of the ous racing clubs in that connection, and Police Courtesy Squad have been tem­ if so, what is their attitude towards the porarily placed on other work, but dur­ proposal? ing the course of the next few days :Mr. GOLLAN: I have not conferred these men will resume their ordinary with the racing clubs in that connection, work. but I have conferred with them in con­ BOOIOIAKERS: FGNTER INSULTED. nection with other matters relating to :M:r. FRAXK BURKE: Has the racing generally. I will, at a later stage, attention of the Colonial Secretary been bring before the racing clubs the ques­ directed to a statement in the Suuday tion of the establishment of a ls. fiat press to the effect that bookmakers at as suggested by the hon. member. Rosehill last Saturday, particularly in one case, insulted a punter 0ccame he PROPORED TUNNEL: ELIZABETH wished to have a lOs. bet? Is it a fact AND FOVEAUX STREETS. that this newspaper said that a year Mr. SHA~·r~·TON: I ask the :Minister ago these bookmakers were gl:td to for Transport whether it is a fact that accept a 5s. bet? Will the Uiuister the Transport Department and the City make representations to the cotmr·ittee that goes into the credentials of these Council are prepared to place a subway bookmakers before they are 1ic0nsed, or tunnel at the intel'section of Eliza­ and ask it to watch caEes of this kind beth a1id Foveaux streets to cope with and deal drastically with those wl1o are the enormous pedestrian traffic that so uncouth on the racecourse? crosses that intersection at peak hours~ :M:r. GOLLAN: I am not >~ware of the Is it also a fact that the Commissioner facts the hon. member has placed bef0re for Railways will not agree to co-operate the .House, hut I will bring the matter -with these two bodies by allowing the under the notice of my colleague, tbe tunnel to enter the approach subway to Colonial Treasurer, who deuls \Yith the the electric trains? Is it further a fact licensing of bookmakers. that 99 per cent. of the pedestriano WHEAT: CONTRACT \YITH wish to enter the railway station? Will ROUMANIA. the Minister take this matter up with Mr. TULLY: Has the Premier noticed the Commissioner for Railways and ob­ a statement in this morning's press tain his co-operation with these other that Great Britain has undertaken te> two bodies in establishing this necessary purchase half the surplus wheat crop improvement? in Roumania? Is the Premier aware Lt.-Colonel BRUXNER: I am not of. the low price of wheat il'. Australia to-day and the difficulty of disposing of aware that any of the statements made Australia's surplus wheat? Is the l"'re­ by the hon. member are facts, hut .I will mier pTepared to make repr•'st:ntations inquire from the Commissioner for Hail­ to the Government of Great Brit[lin, ask­ ways with respect to the matter. ing that :>rderential trade vvithin the 2524; Questions and Answers. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions and Answers.

Empire be carried out on th3 basis of BROKEN HILL: SALE OF LAND. preference to the Australinn harvest as Mr. HORSINGTON: Will the Min­ against the foreign commodity? ister for Lands say whether it is a fact J\fr. STEVENS: I did see some state­ that a large number of residential blocks ment in the press along the lines sug­ have been sold at auction by his depart­ gested by the hon. member's question. I ment at Broken Hill during the last do not think, from my knowledge of th~ few weeks? Is it also a fact that relationship of trade betwe3;: Great these purchasers have had to wait Britain and the Balkans that ally agree­ a considerable time and have had ment they may make for Ll~e purchase of great difficulty in securing a title tn the surplus output of any country in the land purchased? Can the Minister the Balkans is likely prejudicially to say why it takes so long for his depart­ affect the output and sale of A ustraiia's ment to give a title to blocks pur­ exportable surplus. I have seen an chased at auction, and will he see that analysis of the position which these delays are avoided in future? suggests the possibility that that J\fr. S'INCLAIH: It is a fact that type of trade and that type of contract considerable areas of land have been purchase may have a very beneficial made available in the locality to which effect on stabilising the marl,et as to the hon. member refers. That matter is pnce. Until such time as one knows continually under review by the depart­ exactly the price at which this lorg­ ment. As regards the delay that takes term purchase has been effectea one is place in issuing titles, the department is unable to say what· effect it is, likely to reviewing the system and every effort is have on the world's markets. I do know being made to expedite such issue. that the particular aspect of the queation referred to in the cable message ha3 been the subject of very close inve,;tigai i,m PURCHASE OF AEROPLANES. by the authorities, and the hon. mem­ Mr. LEE. Has the attention of the ber's question, which is welcome, is also Premier been drawn to a statement that timely. I can assure him, too, that it is . the Federal Government is proposing to one that is, receiving consideration from spend £1,250,000 on the purchase from those people who watch events from day America of Lockheed aeroplanes? If to day. that is so, will he make representations to the Federal Government with a view COUNTRY POLICE STATIO~S. to its negotiating with the Lockheed Mr. C. A. KELLY: Following an manufacturers for the establishment of answer given last week by the Coloniai their factory here so that the money will Secretary with regard to the closing not leave this country, employment down of certain police stations within will be created here, and contracts pos­ the Bathurst district, will the Minister, sibly made with New Zealand, if this before making any changes of a perma·· special type of plane can be produced nent nature, be prepared to receive depu­ here by our men with our money? tations from the shire councils con­ cerned? Mr. STEVENS: I have no objection J\fr. GOLLAN: I can assure the hon. to making representations to the Federal nnmber that I shall be prepared to con­ Government along the lines suggested by sider any representations, that the shire the hon. member. I would point out, or municipal councils concerned may however, that there is already established wish to place before me, but I do in Australia an aircraft corporation not think there is any necessity for a which is manufacturing planes for civil personal interview. If the hon. member purposes as well as for purposes of war, will place before me the information and that it is being definitely encour­ that he receives from the parties con­ aged by the Federal administration. I cerned I will giYe it every consideration understand from press comments that before coming to a final determination. the order for Lockheed aircmft from Questions and Answers. [9 Nov., 1938.] Questions ancl Answers. 2525

America is designed to meet an emer­ Mr. STEVENS: There is no intention gency and, from a statement made in the on the part of the Government, as such, :Federal House, that it is intended, so to establish an oil refinery at Parra· soon as the aircraft manufacturing in­ matta or, for that matter, anywhere else. dustry is established here, to extend its The Government is one of three parties ramifications. I believe that in the to an agreement under which the com· course of time this State, or one of the parry that operates in the Capertee other eastern States, will become the Valley is assisted in the production of centre of manufacture of aircraft not oil from shale, and it is under an obli· only for Australia, but for the near East gation to process the oil. I observed an and New Zealand. intimation that the company was con­ sidering the desira'bili ty of bringing the oil, in crude form, by gravitation from FIL~I PRODUCTION: SUBSIDY. Capertee to a place near Riverstone f.or Mr. HEFFRON: Can the Premier say the purpose of treatment there on the whether it is a fact that the Government ground that it was less expensive than proposes to subsidise the production of processing it on the local field and trans­ New South Wales films by the imposi­ porting it to Sydney. I have no official tion of a registration fee on films that knowledge of the proposal and so far as are produced in foreign countries? If I am aware the Government is not in­ that is the intention of the Government, volved in any determination as. to whe­ can he inform the House what sum it ther or not the proposal should be adop­ hopes to raise by the imposition of that ted. In view of the interest in the mat· fee? ter, however, I shall have inquiries made :Mr. STEVENS: It is a fact that re­ to ascertain the position and will indi· presentations have been made to the Gov­ cate the result to the hon. member. ernment by various interests for con­ sideration of the proposal mentioned Mr. KILP A TRICE:: Can the Pre· by the hon. member. Those representa­ mier supply the House with any infor· tions are embodied in a lengthy memo­ mation regarding the number of hands randum and have received some con­ employed at the present time on the sideration by Ministers. They, how­ shale proposition at Capertee in which ever, have not yet dealt with all the the :Federal Government, the Govern­ features of the proposal submitted, and ment of New South Wales and private until they have, I do not propose to make enterprise are interested? an announcement as to a decision in :Mr. STEVENS: I have no informa­ relation to part of them. To-morrow tion upon the matter at present, but I I will lay on the table the papers em­ understand that the production of crude bodying those suggestion,s, which arc oil is about to commence. At the very far reaching, so that hon. members moment only a few men are employed; on all sides may appreciate the nature but, just so soon as the plant has been and extent of the representations and completely erected and the processing inform their minds in the course of time is in full swing, which it is hoped as to their justification. will not be long delayed, I am in­ formed that several hundred men will NEWNES SHALE DEPOSITS: be employed on .the undertaking. REFINERY. Mr. SHANNON: :Following on the Mr. ELLIOTT: Can the Premier say question asked by and the answer given whether it is the intention of the Gov­ to the hon. member for Vv agga \Vagga, ernment to establish an oil refinery at can the Premier say whether any por­ Parramatta to process oil from N ewnes? tion of the sum of £166,000' that this If that is the intention of the Govern­ House voted to the National Oil Pro· . ment, will he consider the advisability of prietary Limited in connection with the having the refinery established west of production of oil from shale, has yet the Dividing Range? been paid to the company? 2526 Questions and Answers. LASSKMBLY.] Questions and Answers.

Mr. STEVENS: I do not think that \vhich the hon. member for Dulwich Hiil any money has yet been paid to the suggests should be placed before the~, company. J\fy recollection is that a sum they will find that those responsible for of £50,000 has been placed on this year's commencing the industry, and for its Estimates for the purpose, but payment conduct since then have travelled a long of the n~oney is contingent on the com­ distance, and have done a tremendous pletion of the works covered in the amount of detail work, all nec2ssary agreement by the contributions from the and all unavoidable, and will realise three parties. I will ask m:v colleague, that they have rendered a very great the Treasurer, to look up the relevant service to. the community. papers and supply the hon. member with Later- more exact information than I can give Mr. STE\TENS: Adverting to the re­ him offhand. ply I ga1e the hon. member for Phillip Jltfr. ARKINS: In view of the great with reference to payments to the public interest that is felt in this mat­ National Oil P1·oprietary Limited in ter, "·ill the Premier call for a full re­ connection with N ewnes, my staff has port of what has actually been done l:een good enough to remind me that with regard to the production of oil frcm no amount has yet been paid to these shale, especially in the N ewl!.es r.rea ? people. At- the same time, will the Premier ask for a full investigation of what lws been FREJ~ JIEDICAL ATTE:·JTIO~. done wit:1 re:;ard to the Baerami shale ::'lfr. LAMB: Can the Jll!inister for deposits? Social Senices say whether it is a fact Mr. STEVENS: It will be of interest to the House if I obtain t}le inf

:Mr. SINCLAIH: I will have a state­ alluvial fiats be exempted from the pro­ ment prepared and laid on the table of visions of the l\fining Act, and the posi­ the House in regard to the number of tion is that Cabinet has not yet had an mortgagees in possession and I will also opportunity of considering the matter, give consideration to the other part of but wiil do so at any early date. the hon. member's question. ASSAULTS ON CHILDREN. JYir. GOLLAN: With reference to the NORTH ANNANDALE PUBLIC qnestion asked by the hon. member for SCHOOL. Newtown on the 27th October, concern­ JYir. GORMAN: Can the l\Enister for ing the behaviour of some degenerate Education sav whether it is his inten­ persons at N ewto\vn, I wish to state tion to keep the five-year-old promise he that I have been furnished with reports made to me in connection with repairs in relation to this matter. These re­ to the North Annandale Public School? ports indicate that during the past two months seven cases of assaulting female Mr. DHUl\1J11:0ND: I may inform children or attempts to assault or molest the hon. member that it is always my female children have been reported to the intention, when I make promises, to N e\Ytown police. Of these cases, four give effect to them. have been cleared up by the arrest of the offenders. In one of the three re­ maining cases an indecent assault was CONTROL Ol!' AIR SERVICES. committed, but in the other instances no :Mr. STEVENS: Last sitting day, the allegations of assault were made by the hon. member for Willoughby asked me victims. I need hardly state that matters a que~,tion about a report said to have of this kind are regarded in a most seri­ been furnished by the Commissioner ous manner by the police and every for Railways with reference to air eff'Ort is being made to locate the of­ transportation, and I then gave him a fenders concerned in the three out­ reply which did not correctly set out standing cases. To this end police the facts. I desire now to inform the throughout the whole of the division House that my colleague, the Minister have been instructed to be on the alert for Transport advises me that the and special attention is being given to Commissioner, with whom he discussed all parks and playgrounds frequented the question, made a report to him and by children. that he, Lieut.-Colonel Bruxner, has submitted a report for Cabinet. I have APPRENTICES: EMPLOYMENT set this report down for discussion dur­ CONDITIONS. ing the Christmas recess. I make the l\1:r. HIOHARDSON: In reply to the statement for the information of hon. question asked by the hon. member for members. JYianly, on the 26th ultimo, relative to employment conditions of apprentices, I am now informed by my colleague, A:MEND~IENT OF MINING ACT. tlie J\1:inister for Labour and Industry, J\fr. STEVENS: On the 2nd Novem­ that power to regulate attendance of ap- ber, the hon. member for Cootamundra 1'prentices for technical instruction js asked me a question concerning the vested in the Apprenticeship Oo_uncil consideration by Cabinet of proposals operating under the Industrial Arbitra­ for the amendment of the }lining Act, tion Act. In some industries provision and I promised I would look into the has been made that attendance of ap­ matter and let him have a reply. I prentices for technical instruction shall find that, following upon representa­ be in the employer's time and it is tions made by the hon. member to my open to the parties to an award to make colleague, the Minister for :Mines, a application to the Apprenticeship Coun­ minute has been submitted to Cabinet cil for extemion of that provisio:::1 to in regard to the request made that rich other industries. Questions m:cl Ansu:ers. [9 Xov., 1933.] Questions and Answers. 2529

YOUTHS: DISi\IISSALS. been takt.:n by a large number of con­ :Mr. RICHAHDSON: On the 2·:-d in­ ciliation committees by providing that stant the hon. member for Canterbury male 'lvages shall be paid to persons en­ .addreesed a question to me in regard to gaged in certain employment, and in the alleged dismissals by employers of others t!1e employment of girls has been ,youths 18 and 19 years of age for the restricted ·lly the provision of a propor­ purpose of engaging cheaper labour. I tion clause in certain awards. In pur­ have conferred, as promised, with the suance of the powers given to him by :1\finister fur I.abour and Industry and the Factories and Shops Act, the Min­ have a~certr~in\Jd that the Industrial ister has prohibited the employment .of .. Arbitration Act enables the industrial women on all power presses used in fac­ tribunals to deal with this question by tories, and this has rcsultecl· in boys nxing the proportion of the employment and men being engaged exclusively in ()f juniors to seniors. The conciliation this class of work. In dealing with ap­ committees and the Industrial Commis­ plications for extension of overtime to sion established under that Act have, in be worked by women, the :Minister has :a great number of instances provided directed that approval will only be given for the limitation, or proportion, of the in those cases ·where it can he established -employment of juniors to seniors. The that bo:vs or men cannot be employed. awards provide a1so in a number of As to those youths who will be leaving instances for the limitation of the em­ school at the end of this year, the l>lin­ })loyri1ent of improvers or learners. In ister said it was expected that the major­ addition to the statutory provisions, the ity, if not all of them, i'l'ould secure 1finister has informed me that it has employment early next year. been the praCtice of the Department of Labour and Industry for some time past to eucourage wherever possible the em­ CO-OPERATIVE BLJII... DING SOCIETIES. })loyment of older boys. In this con- ::t.lr. J\f.AIR: On 28th ultimo, in my 11ection reference has been made to the absence from the House, the leader of Subsidised Apprenticeship scheme estab­ the Opposition addres~ed a question lished by the Government this year, without notice to the Deputy-Premier, under which young men from 19 to 25 relative to delayed applications for ad­ years of age learn a trade after a period vances from co-operative building socie­ of apprenticeship. In addition, the State ties. Apparently the hon. member refers labour exchanges have done a good deal to certain aplications for advances of of work in placing older lads in employ­ between eighty and ninety per ment, and wherever possible this policy cent. of the ~Calue of the se­ 'vill be adhered to. curity, and in respect of which applications li'ere made hv societies for YOUTHS LEAVIKG SCHOOL. indemnities in pursuance 'of section l7A Mr. RICHARDSON: On the 3rd in­ of the Co-operation Act. The recent stant, a question was addressed to me change in the office of Colonial Treasurer by the hon. member for Liverpool necessitated the re-engrossing of a large Plains, in regard to the avenues of em­ number of agreements. It was nccessar.y ployment for girls and boys, with a view to send the agreements to the societies to more employment for boys so that girls for execution and some little delay has might be made available for domestic thus occurred. A great many of the duties. I referred this matter to my col­ agreements have already been finalised league, the J\finister for Labour and In­ and action in the remaining cases should dustry, who informs me that the indus­ be completed in a week or two. I would trial tribunals established under the In­ add that the papers in regard to indem­ dustrial Arbitration Act have authority to determine wages and conditions of nity agreements are referred to the employment of persons under the State's Treasury by the Co-operative Building jurisdiction, and that action has already Advisory Committee for the purpose of 7x 2;530 Questions and A nsu:ers. [ASSEMBLY.] Industrial Emplcyecs.

obtaining the approval of the GoYernor­ INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYEES: ANNTfAT~ in-Council to the committee's recom­ HOLIDAYS. mendations and for subsequent execution J\£r. BADDELEY (Cessnock) [3.2:!] · of agreements by societies and myself. I move: The agreements are always regarded as That, in the opinion of this House,-(1) urgent, and action towards their finali­ Legislation :ohou!d be enacteu immediately. ~:ation is taken as promptly as possible. to provide for annual holidays on full pay I would add that I am fullv aware of to all workers in any industry in this Statr. (2) Such legislation d10uld commence aG the urgent necessity for getting these once and provide for one weelc's le:Jxe for agreements completed, and I can assure the first year of service and two eomecutiVc the hon. member that no further .delay weeks for each subsequent ycai's eervice. will occur. J\fy object in nwving the motion is to make it mandatory upon all employn:o IXCG:IfE TAX DEDuCTIONS. of labour in New South Wales to grant :Jfr. :irAIR: On 14th October the their employees annual blidays on full hon. member for Canterbury asked in a pay. In the first year of cmploym::1: t. question ·without notice that the income they should get one week's holiday and tax legis!ation be amended to provide from then on two weeks. I find, on in­ that wages tax and special income tax quiry, that about 10 pel' cent. o£ the be allowed as deductions for State taxa­ workers, because of private agreements, tion purposes. I now desire to inform or of awards, enjoy annual holida::s, but the others do not. I have ask

The :Minister may argue that our legis­ anomalous position in some industries, latiYe industrial machinery is sufficient including the mining. industry. Those to enable the employees to obtain all engaged at State mines in New South that they are entitled to, but it is not Wales, Queensland or Victoria are sufficient for me. In some cases mem­ granted annual recreation leave, but men bers of the more progressive industria\ engaged by private mining companie3 unions have been successful in bargain­ enjoy no such privilege, though all are ing with their employers for annual holi­ hewing coal. This year the British days, but the members of the weaker Parliament passed legislation which pro­ unions get no consideration. If. hon. vided for a fortnight's annual recreation members will agree to the motion leave for 3,000,000 workers. It is esti­ it will be an incentive to employers mated that there are 18,000,00,0 workers to grant fourteen days' annual holi­ in Great Britain, of whom' 7,000,000 days on full pay to their employees. were previously enjoying annual recrea­ Especially do women and girls re­ tion leave. Of the remaining 10,000,000 quire annual holidays on full pay. 3,000,000 are now provided for and In my opinion it should be man­ boards have been set up throughout the datory on all employers of female country with instructions to investigate labour to grant holidays to women and the cases of others, Parliament having girls. The introduction into factories virtually given a direction that holidays of machinery has made hardm· the lot on pay should be granted to them. L of the female worker. J\icdical opinion was revealed at the main inquiry into bears out that statement, and it is tim:) the matter that there can be no ques­ that New South Wales followe:l tho tion that the person who enjoys annual practice in other parts of the 1vorld o£ recreation leave is physically and men­ granting annual holidays. In 1938 in tally better able to do his job than is forty-two countries annual holidays were the man who is denied a break from allowed on full pay to employees. At his drudgery. Many workers in New last the Geneva conference that was rati­ South Wales are unable to take time fied. .Amongst those who do not receiYe off at their own expemP. to spend a holi­ annual holidays in this State are the day because they knew tl:at on their re­ coal-miners, numbering about 20,000. turn they would be unable to meet the Ron. members know that the miner's bills that had accumulated. My ple:1 work is very strenuous, and although, is not only on behalf of the worker. T in the past, the coal-mining industry of have in mind also the need of a holiday New South \Vales flourished, it is not in for his wife who has worked strenu­ the same happy position to-day. In Great ously throughout the year providing foT Britain the coal-miners enjoy an annual the needs of her husband and children. holiday of fourteen days on full pa;v. She should enjoy a break away from the There is no provision for annual re­ scene of her activities. It is economi­ creation leave for sheet metal workers, cally sound for an industry to make galvanised ironworkers, engineers, buil­ provision for its employees to have an­ ders and labourers, persons in casual nual holidays on full pay. If an hon. occ:u,pations, waterside wo~·kers, part member becomes run down he is able time railway hands, temporary workers to take a holiday and he receives his and pieceworkers. Yet the concession is allowan~e during the time he is away enjoyed by every employee in the Fed­ from parliamentary duties. I do not eral and State public services. I sub­ say tht,t members do not earn what thev mit that workers in industry are just are paid; indeed my contention is th~t as important to the State as are those their allowances are inadequate. The employed in Government services, whe­ point is they should provide for others ther they be State instrumentalities ol' a privilege that is enjoyed by them. New not. All local government associations South Wales has slipped sadly from the grant their employees a fortnight's holi­ proud position it used to occupy in the day annually on full pay. There is an vanguard of industrial reform. Recently 2532 Industrial Employees: [ASSEMBLY.] Annual II alidays.

such countries as the Argentina. Brazil The Government recognised the difficul­ Columbia, Cuba, Chili, Esthonia: ties facing the Industrial ·Commission Roumania, Sp1in, Russi!\, Switzerland, and some time· ago appointed an addi: Poland, Luxembourg and others have tional judge. I believe it is now proposed legislated to provide for annual recrea­ to appoint another judge. · tion leave on full pay for employees. Mr. HlCHAimsox: \Vhen was that pro­ That was also done by Belgium on the posal made? 8th July of this year and I believe it llfr. BADDELEY: Quite recently. In has been provided in China. addition the Government appointed 1fr. Mr. S.nDERS: Does the hon. member Kavanagh to assist the Commission. De­ mean leaYe for the soldiers in that coun- spite that assistance, there is still con­ try! . gestion before the Commission and the :Mr. BADDELEY: I r.m talking about unions cannot haYe their claims dealt the workers in industry and am treating with. I have with me a report of a the subject seriouslJ·. J\fy plea is for committee which was set up bv the the wage earners and if the hon. mem­ Rouse of Commons to inquire into the ber does not mpport the motion let question of granting annual holidays him vote against it. to industrial y;-crkers. That committee, }Ir. S.L'IDERS: I shall tell the House "·hich was representatiTe of ail shades of that many workers are giYen a perman­ political opinion, found that in some ent holiday because industr;y cannot cases the cost to industry of granting afford to employ them! annual holida:ys would 'be only 2 per Mr. BADDEJJ~Y: I ~hall be glad to cent. listen to the hon. member. I do not 1\Ir. S.\XDERS: Two per cent. of whaH know of any industry which cannot af­ ford to provide a fortnight's holiday on Mr. BADDELEY: Two per cent. of full pay to its employees e\ery ;year. If the wages bill. The committee found there is such a one it must be poorly that the cost would be not less than 2 per administen:d. I can understand the hon. cent. and not more than 5 per cent. I member's argument if he happens to be a belieYe that in the coal-mining industry director of a 'business. For vears con­ of this State the cost of granting a fort­ servatiYe people like the h01~. member night's annual holiday to the workers for Willoughby opposed the introduction would ce less than 3d. a ton. If that is of legislation to provide for workmen's the case, 'l':hy all this quibble about eX­ compensation, family endowment, and pense? There were sixteen representa­ widows' pensions, on the ground that tives on the committee to which I have the granting of such benefits would referred and the terms of reference \\ere cripple industry, but despite their oppo­ to imestigate the extent to which holi­ sition that legislation is on the statute­ days \l"ith pay are given to employed book. To-day the hon. member would work-people, the possibility of extending not dare to suggest the abolition of fam­ the provision of such holidays by statu­ ily endowment and other social services tory enactment or otherwise; and to and I venture to sav that if this motior~ make recommendations. The committee -were agreed to and ;nnual holidavs were recommended that a fortnight's annual granted to industrial workers, ti~e hon. holiday should be granted to all workers member would, in a few ;years' time, in industry. On page 14 of its report it admit that after all it wlls a necessary stated: innovation. The employees in the rub­ The application of the legislation ranges ber works of this State recei\e no <:mnual from the provision of holidavs with pay to holidays. The unions are pressing for all classes of workers, ma~ual and ~on­ annual holiday2 for all employees in in­ manual, to provision for only one specified class of workers, such as shop assistants. dustry, but owing- to the congestion of In bYenty-three countries and two cantons work before the Industrial Commission, of Switzerl~nd the legislation applies to many of the claims, although listed for manual and non-manual workers in indus­ ::wo yeare, have not yet been dealt·with. try and coJmnerce, and in some of these Industrial Employees: [9 Nov., 1938.] Annuxl Hclida;ys. · \ 2533

countrie3 to other classes of workers in if lYe cannot treat the workers as they addition, such as agricultural woTkcrs, do­ are being treated in otheT parts of the mestic- servants, etc. world. In Sew Zealand very beneficial In this State no provision is made for social legislation haE• been passed dming ·the granting of annual bo~idays to do­ the regime of the Labour G-overmnent. mestic servants. Some of them may have Holidays are granted theTe on full pay, a day o:lf by arrangement with their em­ and that was brought about by Act of ployers, but if they dared to ask for a Parliament. There is no necessity to week's holiday they would be immedi­ refer the matter to some industTial ately dismissed. I know that some em­ commission. As faT as manual workers ployers grant annual holidays to their are concerned in the United States of domestic sta:lf, but others unfortunately America, the actual application of this do not. I am asking the House to ac­ provision is now known, and the workeTs cept my motion so that domestic ser­ there appeaT to be protected in every vants shall receive annual holidays, as sem,:o;. TheTe is a reference in this re· is the practice in other parts of the port to the number of people enjoying ·world. The report of the committee con­ holidays throughout Great Britain. The tinues: report says: In Germany holidays with pay are EC­ cuTed by administrative order. On the basis of the reasoning described in In Belgium, France and Germany special appendix 1, the conclusion emerges that arrangements exist for workers in industry the annual consecutive days of holiday with in "-hich employment is normally inter­ pay in some fom1 at the end of March, 1938, mittent. are pTovided for some 7,750,000 work people as interpreted above out of the total of If such a suggestion were made in this 18,500,000 work people in the employment State the employers would view it with field, a proportion of a little over 40 per horror,- and rather - than agree to it cent. would dismiss all their employees. The I suggest to the House that if we report continues: give a direction in the terms of this The cost of the holidays is appoTtiouecl motion >'>e will be doing the right thing. among employers either by means of holiday I do not mind if hon. members desire stamps affixed to holiday card8, or by con­ to amend the motion. Some of them tributions to a central fund called a "Com­ may wish to substitute a week for a pensation Fund," to which employers aTe Tequired to affiliate. The pTincipal oversea foTtnight. All I am concerned about is countries in ·which a collective agreement the securing of holidays for the men pTovides the only title to a holiday with nav nnd women in industry. I know that a for certain cbsses of workers or to whicl1 lot of them will be looking for a holi­ legislation in force is supplemented oT im· plemented by collective agreement, are Den­ day at Christmas. We in New mark, Italy, The Xetherlands, N"onva;~;, South \Vales ask people to come here to Rumania, S1veden and the cnion of South see our wonderful rivers, lal;;:es, and Africa. mountains. Jl,fany of our own people Only recently in the l¥ nited States of have not seen them, because they nave AmeTica, President Roosevelt brought not been able to take a holiday, and down legislation, which passed both they are the people who should be con­ Houses of OongTess, granting to all sideTed. It would mean that more industrial employees a fortnight's an­ money would be in circulation, and nual holiday on full pay. I suggest that much of that would revert to the cap­ theTe is no need for the emplo,vers to be tains of industry. Figmes which have afraid of competition in this connec­ been published show that insurance tion. It may be said that industry can­ i:Jusiness in New South Wales has made not afford the gTanting of annual holi­ great progTestS in recent months. In days on full pay, but if such a benefit fact, the premiums paid last year is granted in China and Japan, surely was a recoTd. A press cutting we, with our White Australia policy, states that the premium receipts for t:hould be able to grant it here. There general insurance business m New must be something wrong in industry South Wales for 1937-38 were the 2534 Industrial Employees: [ASSEMBLY.] Annual Holidays.

largest on record, and aggregated Moreover, a considerable extension of £6,587,000, as compared with £5,945,000 private arrangements made by individual firms for the provision of holidays with. for the previous year. These figures were pay, while the committee has been sitting, supplied by Mr. R. S. Carver, the State has been brought to our notice by witnesses Statis,tician. Another press cutting and by reports received. These increases showed a big improvement in the prices have probably been helped by the promin­ ence given to the question during .the last of commodities, notably metals and year when, it is satisfactory to note, the wool, good rains in country areas, the number of wage-earners provided with holi­ settlement of the coal strike, and a days· with pay by collective agreement was strong advance in industrial share increased by about 60 per cent. prices. Many New South liVales com­ The final conclusion reached was that panies paid higher dividends during the holidays should be granted by Act of last financial year. I have a liot and Parliament. The report stated: there is nothing less than 8 per cent. During the parliamentary session of while some of them are higher than ] 940-1, legislation should be passed making they have been for many years. provision for holidays with pay in industry Since this Government has been in of­ generally. fice it has protected these industries. They I have a copy of the Annual Holiday have flourished and gone ahead by leaps Bill before me. At the second-reading and bounds. Surely the Government stage the :Minister :Cor Labour and Indus­ will allow hon. members on the Govern­ try said that the bill affected potentially ment side of the House to vote as they about 2,000,000 >vorkers. He stated: think fit on this motion. The people The Amulree Committee estimated that who help to create thos,e dividends are by :March, 1938, annual consecutive days .entitled to some consideration. I refer of holiday with pay in some form or an­ particularly to the women and girls other were provided for about 7,7.50,000 p~ople--some 40 per cent. out of a total of who are working in our factories. The 18,500,000 work-people in the employment Daily Telegraph, on 24th October, re­ field. On the basis of this estimate there ported great business gains in industries must be over 8,000,000 work-people getting in New South Wales, the United States holidays with pay, out of 18,500,000. That margin of 10,000,000 shows the field which of America, and New Zealand. During the there is to be covered. These figures show next twelve months the reports will be that Yery remarkable progress has been made even better than those of the past year. towards what everv member of the House l look to the future with optimism. I desires. • do not share the view of some people Members on all sides of the House of that there is to be another depresRion Commons supported the measure. On the within the next twelve months. I am Labour side, :M:r. Olynes pointed out that of opinion that everything during the the committee had reported as follows: :next twelve months will be on the upward Employment was in many instances more trend. These industries should be able exacting than previously owing to ration­ to allow their employees an annual holi­ alisation, speeding up, mechanisation and _,day. The report concludes: the growth of dull repetitive work, and industry was changing at a greater rate Before concluding this report, reference than ever before, thus imposing on the ·,should be made to the de>elopmcnt of the work-people the strain of constant re-adjust­ provision of paid holidays which has taken ment. Nervous strain was accordingly hav­ place while the committee has been sitting. ing an increasing influence on the personnel As was pointed out in anoth~r paragraph, of modern industry, and the approved socie­ ties of the trade unions were reporting at the time the committee was set up be­ more cases of nervous breakdown than tween 1,500,000 and 1,750,000 manual wage­ previously. earners were affected by general or district agreements giving holidays with pay. While That matter was also referred to by Mr. the committee was sitting a number of Hicks, who sat on that committee and additional agreements were made, and it represented Great Britain at the Geneva is estimated that the total number of wage­ Conference. He pointed out that at earners affected by collective agreemer:ts is that conference there were delegates

~1ow about 3,0001000, from thirty-eight countries that granted Industrial Employees: [9 Nov., 1938.] Annual II olidays. 2535 annual holidays, including France and prepared, showing the profits of insur­ Norway, which granted fifteen days. ance companies in Sydney. .I under­ Surely, he said, it was alw possible for stand that the amount of profit earned Great Britain to do so too. Another by these companies is approximately Conservative member said that he had £6,000,000. No one denies that they have Dbtained better results from his em­ made profits, and I accept the statement ployees since he had granted them four­ that they have made colossal profits, but teen days' annual leave, and he too, the hon. member for Cessnock must re­ supported the Bill. Medical practi­ member that their employees receive a:!1 tioners also supported it. Another Con­ annual holiday on full pay. The hon. servative member, Sir Henry lVL Jones, member also said that dividends have a manufacturer, said that holidays re­ been made by numbers of firms listed on sulted in a contented staff free from ncr­ the Stock Exchange, and he mentioned yous strain. one or two firms of which I have had :Mr. SPEAEER: Order! The hon. mem­ experience. For the last y(!ar they ber has exhausted his time! have shown a good profit, some of them Mr. SANDEHS (Willoughby) [ 4.13] : are paying dividends of up to 8 per I was pleased to hear the remarks made cent. by the hon: member in support of his Ur. \V. DAVIES: Some of them are

express the opinion that for the Jl.fr. SANDEHS :Jt must be authentic. next twelve months industry would The hon. member for Cessnock said that continue to prosper. Dividends mean if ld. a ton were added to the cost of that profits have been made by· a coal it would be possible for miners to firm, which means that the price ob­ receive two week's holiday on full pay. tained for goods has shown a margin It is difficult to average the cost of t'YO over the cost of production. The hon. weeks holiday on full pay. member said that commodities had in­ Jl.fr. BADDELEY: Most of them are on creased in price but that he did not intend shift work! to refer to that matter at this juncture. Jl.fr. DAVIDSON: How is it done at: Hon. members will agree that the Broken Hill ? higher the dividend the higher the price Mr. SANDERS: The hon. member for of a commodity. All costs, irrespective Cessnock made reference to another of their price, must be added to the secondary industr,y. I have no desire to commodity until it reaches the con­ mention names. In respect of one of sumer. The hon. member for Cessnock, the companies the hon. member was per­ in his motion, obviously has in mind the fectly correct. It has not granted holi­ interests of the miners. I clo not think day pay to its employees, but I remind he has a thorough knowledge of in­ him that in the financial year ended dustry in general. I ask the hon. mem­ 31st December last, it recorded its fir.3t ber for .Cessnock and the hou. member profit for nine years. While some pro­ for Illawarra ·whether the miners are tected industries, by combining to fix entitled to a fortnight's holiday on full pay. prices, may make such profits as would. enable them to afford to grant a holiday 1Ir. W. DAUES: Yes, definitely! on full pay to their employees, man~­ lfr. SANDERS: I have a knowledge others are unable to give the co11cession of the miners' conditions. They earn because their businesses could nnt cal'l',f sufficient money to enable them to take it. IVhen the hon. member for Cessnock a holiday and to pay for it. was sp2aking I asked him by interjec:tion }.fr. W. DAVIES: The hon. member has ·whether he preferred employees to be been misled ! granted two weeks holiday on full pay J\Ir. SANDERS : No; I know many and during the ensuing twelve montb to miners have earned from £20 to £35 be on full-time holiday without pay. a pay. Government supporters desire to keep as many men as possible in employ­ lfr. SPEAI\ER: Order! \Yill the Gov­ ernment IVhip enter the Chamber in the ment. IVe cherish that ideal. Conse­ proper manner ! quently we consider that the House should take no action to imperil the posi­ :l\Ir. SAXDERS: I gained that in­ tion of thousands of men and women who formation during train journeys on the now have constant employment and who South Coast. at the end of each week take home a Jl.1:r. IV. DAnEs: Is that the monthly full pay envelope. pay? To expect the primary industries to Jl.fr. SANDERS: I believe it is fort­ grant the concession to employees is out nightly. of the ouestion. The hon. mAmber for Jl.fr. IV. Dxrms: It is necessary to aver­ Cessnock touched so briefly on this as­ age the earnings over the whole year! pect that he virtually made no reference to it beyond stating that the agrieul­ Jl.fr. SANDERS: Hon. members who tural and pastoral industries should possess a knowledge of the mining in­ also grant employees a fortnight's holi­ dustry and of the income earned by Cla:v on full pay. If that were miners should giYe the information to done, the price of butter would prob­ the House. ably be increased by 3d. a pounq and Ivfr. W. DAnEt>: It can be obtained ld. would be added to the cost o£ eYery without difficulty! pint of milk. As the hon. member did Industrial Employees: [9 Nov., 1938.] Annual Holidays.

not refer extensi ,·ely to this subject, ,vas astonished at his remarks. HP however, I shall not dwell up01i it. But endeavoured to give the Stevens Govern­ I do criticise his statement that every ment credit for the improved position of secondary industry should allow its em­ industry. ployees a fortnight's holiday pay. The 11r. SANDERS: Tl1e hon. member for hon. gentleman had authority in 1925- Ces.snock gave the Government credit for 27 and 1930-31 to introduce legislation the improvement! to give effect to his present proposal. His Mr. W. DAVIES: The improvement failure to do so indicates that in ap­ has been world-wide. For the hon. mem­ plying his principle to secondary indus­ ber for Willoughby to declare that the tries generally he is not sincere. With present Government has been responsible respect to mining, I admit that he may for the upward trend is absurd. If his be sincere, because many mining inter­ statement were correct, who has been ests make large profits. But to attempt to responsible for similar improvement apply his scheme to all secondary in­ in Great Britain, Germany and other dustries would be most foolish. For countries, because the Premier of New many years emplo;5 C'es engaged in any South IV ales cannot claim that credit? industry have had the right to approach What happens is that after some years, an industrial tribunal for the nurpose .,-f supply overtakes and passes demand and seeking an improvement in their work­ naturally a slump ensues. ing conditions. If the Industrial Com­ }.Ir. ARDILL: Does the hon. member mission decides that the arduous nature believe in the law of supply and de­ of the work and the health of the em­ mand? ployees necessitate an impro"">ement in :Mr. W. DAVIES: We shall never be their conditions, it will make the re­ able to get away from that law until quisite award. What more can the hon. industry .is properly organised. In no member desire? I appeal to him not to other circumstances can the old eco­ attempt to apply his proposal to secon­ nomic law of supply a11d demand be dary industries generally, because to do avoided. so would be most unwise and would re­ :Mr. ARDILL: That is not so! coil on his own head. For these reasons I am not disposed to alter existing con­ :Mr. W. DAVIES: The proper organi­ ditions namely, the right gi"">en to em­ sation of industry is the solution, and it ployees in any industry to approach the is being adopted in a few countries. Industrial Commi

employees. The Government has assisted these men. Last week this State cele­ a number of industries by reducing tax­ brated Health Vleek, and, in my opinion, ation, abolishing family endowment and we should have health weeks more making the special income and wages often, because the nation needs ph;ysic­ tax fund pay for social services. There­ ally fit human beings. But how can fore it has really shifted the burden men be physically fit if they do not from the wealthy section on to the shoul­ get a chance to recuperate? The ders of the workers, and industry is now organisers of Health Week should go progressing at the expense of the work­ beyond getting a number of boys and ing class. The hon. member declared that girls to give physical culture displays in the course of a year miners earn suffi­ in :Th'Iartin Place; they should see that cient to enable them to finance a fort­ something is done to prevent industry night's holiday. ·from taking too much from individuals. :Mr. SAKDERS: That is so! vVe must remember, also, that the miners have to pay towards the holidays Mr. W. DA YIES: The min2r is em­ that others get. :i'.iiners pay, through ployed on piecework. He may make taxation, for member$: of the public ser­ good wages during one fortnight and vic:; to receive three weeks' annual his income may be very small for the holiday on full pay. I am in favour of next fortnight. His earnings greatly public servants getting holidays, but I depend upon the place he cavils for the Dm pointing out that the miner has to quarter. I would remind the hon. mem­ help pay for them. By means of taxa­ ber for Willoughby also that, taken over tion the miner has to pay for men en­ tl:c twelve months, a miner's earnings gaged on the railways to obtain a fprt­ are not high. His work is intermittent, night's annual holiday on full pay. It and is subject to the amount of trade is absolutely unfair that one man should his employer gets. If the employer does have to contribute towards paying for not get the trade, the miner is told he the holidays of others when he does is not ·wanted. He goes to work and not get holidays himself. when he gets there is told there is noth­ J\'Ir. S.-\XDE:ls: If the miner gets only ing for him to do, because there is no the tas,ic wage, what tax does he pay? trade. I have seen men going back home three and four days in a week. J'l1:r. W. DAVIES: If the hon. member So when the hon. member speaks of the has no knowledge of indirect taxation mineT earning sufficient during his \York­ his knowledge is very limited. ing days to pay for his holidays he is Mr. J. 0. Ross: It is the greatest form abwlutely wrong. of taxation! Jiir. W. DAVIES: Yes, and it is the i\Ir. S,\KDERS: What would be his1 form of taxation from which the Federal average yearly earnings? Government obtains its revenue, and out l\Ir. W. DAVIES: I suppose the aver­ of >vhich it proposes to pay for the great age yearly earnings of a miner on the armament expenditure. Half of our in­ South Coast would be 110t more than dustrial awards make provision for a the basic wage. This is because of the fortnight's holiday on full pay. The intermittency of employment. The other day I was s.peaking to a business hon. wember is wrong in saying that man, who told me that in his shop he the miner should provide for his holi­ was working under fifteen separate in· days out of the ·wages he receives. dustrial awards, and that in every one Miners would be better able to earn of t.ho~~e a:\vards provision ·Was made their living if they were allowed holi­ for a fortnight's holiday on full pay. days on full pay, We put our horses out He said, "If my employees are entitled for a spell, and the grass is there for to a fortnight's holiday on full pay, them to eat. If the miner gets a spell he surely the miner who works in the is not paid for it, and has to go short. l:owels of the earth, and works much Something should be done by way of harder than the men work in my bus.i.­ legislation to provide for holidays for ness, are entitled to holidays." That is Industrial Employe.es: : [9 Kov., 1938.] Annual II olidays. 2539

what we say. The time has arrived the weaker organisations are unable to when a fortnight's holiday on full pay obtain, with the result that there are should be provided for all persons who continual strikes. If provision for holi­ are not receiving it at the persent time. days was made by legislation it would In my electorate there are thousands of minimise very greatly the number of steel workers, galvanised iron makers, strikes that take place. and so on, who do not receive annual In England a large number of col­ .holidays on full pay. They get what is lective agreements provide for holidays, termed a week'E, sick leave every year; on full pay. There is no express the employer watches them and if a man legislation giving empioyees holidays, is idle for a day or two he sends the but they get it by means of agreement. doctor to him to :find out whether he is This ;year, miners in England had their really sick or not, with the result that holidays on full pay, and thousands of very often men go to work when they miners were able to take their families ought to be in bed, because they are to the seaside for the first time, because afraid of being victimised and losing of this provision. Other countries have their jobs. That 'is not fair. A man provided in that way. I have a list is entitled to a spell. J\'Ien working at published by the International Labour the steelworks are being asked if they Office, dealing with the Irish Free State, are prepared to work during the Christ­ where holidays on full pay are provided mas holidays. In a large number of by t"he Conditions of Employment Act, caEes when a man works on a public holi­ which came into force in 1936. The Irish day he is asked to take time off on an Trade Union Qongress has informed ordinary day. He is supposed to receive us that they have no knowledge of any double time for working on a holiday, difficulties having arisen in regard to the but the employers get him to work on the application of the Act to time workers, holiday and then get him to take time piece ·workers, casual workers or seasonal off in order to make up for it. That workers. was not the intention of the award. The The hon. member for Willoughby said employers are flouting awards every day it would be difficult to :find out of the week and something should be what holiday pay to give to men done to protect men engaged in industry. engaged on piece work. It would At Port Kembla the men work as be only necessary to find out what hard as men work anywhere, yet they were their average earnings and pay on have not received these privileges. They the ayerage. This would get over the ought to get them. A fortnight's holi­ difficulty. In France an Act providing day on full pay should be provided for for annual holidays, with pay, was pro­ all those people working down there. mulgated and came into operation in It will be argued that industry would be June, 1936. Several decrees and admin­ unable to carry the extra burden. Let us istrative circulars have since been issued take the Rroken Hill Proprietary Com­ containing regulations relating to the pany, which is the company I was refer­ general operation of the Act, and its ring to when I spoke about men not get­ application to special categories or work­ ting a holiday. That company made people such as agricultural workers and £1,250,000 profit last year. Surely the those not normally employed in the company can afford to provide a little same establishment continuously l}oliday for the men who earn that pro:fit! throup-hout the years. The Act covers That is one of the reasons why we say every manual worker, non-manual wor­ industry should be prepared to give this ker, or apprentice, employed in industry, facility to employees. ~trong unions commerce, or the liberal professions, or have been able to get the concession by in a co-operative society, and every collective agreement. There arc a num­ journeyman and apprentice employed in ber of industries in which there are a handicraft undertaking. It provides strong workmen's organisations, and that every person covered by the Act these are able to get concessions which shall have the right, after one yca;·'s 2540 Industrial Emp~oyees: [ASSEMBLY.] Annual Holidays.

continuous service in the undertaking, days. In Russia, the right of holidays, to fifteen days' continuous holiday, in­ with pay, is based on the labour code of cluding at least twelve working days 1922. In the Union of Soviet and Social­ with pay. If, when the regular holiday ist· Republics all employees are entitled period in the establishment occurs, a to annual holidays on full-pay. Persons person has been employed in that estab­ employed for .as long as fi-ve and a half lishment for at Ieast six months, he is mo11ths receive holidays with pay. In entitled to six days' continual holiday Germany, also, employees .are allowed a 1yith pay. The provisons are without fortnight's holiday on full pay. There prejudice to the granting of longer they have the card system, and each holidays in accordance with established employer, for each week he works, must custom or collective agreement. By an place a stamp on his card of the value of Act passed in 1936, and by subsequent two per cent. of his wages. The holiday royal d.ecrees, holidays with pay are card is cashed at the post office, and the granted in Belgium generally to all em­ 'holiday must be taken within six' days ployed persons, except those employed in following the surrender of the cards. small establishments. In Italy .the royal decree of 6th May, Mr. ARim\S: It is not universal! 1928, requires the trade as;:;ociations to Mr. W. DAVIES: No. But in Bel­ include definite provision on the subject gium even in the building trades the of annual ·holidays, -with pay, due to work-people enjoy holidays. Under the workers in undertakings working con­ arrangements the industry is required tinuously throughout the year. In that to set up a central fund, to which em­ country the holiday is a minimum of ployers contribute, by the purchase of one week for one year's continuous ser­ holiday stamps to be affixed each month vice. In South Africa there are two to books issued to workers. After the collective agreements applying to the stamps have been affixed, the -employee iron and steel workers under which each gets his money and is able to go away employee is entiteld to eighteen days on his holidays. The stamps show holiday with pay, the qualification for where he has been employed, and which is 294 shifts, exclusive of over­ although his employment may have been time actually worked on a six-day work­ intermittent he gets his holidays. In ing week basis, or forty-nine calendar Norway, under the Labour Protection \Yeeks of employment in the case of an Act, passed in 1936, 500,000 work-people employee working on a fi1e-day-week enjoy nine days' annual holiday, with basis. No employee is allowed to engage pa;>, after 0'1e year's continuoue service, in any employment for gain during the and proportionately shorter holidays for period of his holiday, and if an em­ shorter service. In Sweden, work-people ployee does not take his holiday within have enjoyed annual holidays since 1931. a period of four m-onths after it be­ !h. ARKIXS: Are the holidays univer­ ccmes due, he forfeits the money. sal there? The difficulties mentioned by the hon. }fr. W. DAVIES: No. In Denmark, member for "\Villoughby have been ov~r­ as a result of industrial negotiations, come, and there is no reason why the holidays in certain occupations of from intermittent worker should not get an three to si." days a year are allowed. In annual holiday. Nor is there any rea­ the cement, match, and flour-milling in­ son why the pieceworker should not dustries the workers were granted. holi­ enjoy such a holiday. I hope hon. mem­ days for the first time in 1934. Accord­ bers will agree to the motion, and I look ing to the Yea1· Bool.:, 1935c1936, the forward to seeing the :ll1:inister bring­ trade unions' statistics for holidays, down a measure providing for annu~l with pay, relating to eighty-five unions, holidays with full pay for all employees. comprising over 400,000 members, show :Nir. J. 0. ROSS (Kogarah) [4.48]: that the total number of paid holidays I see nothing radical in the motion, but granted amounted to 1,254,862. The it is not long since a motion of average holiday for each worker -was six this kind would have been considered Industrial Employees: [9 ~ ov., 1938.] Annu:zl Holidays. 254L idealistic and impossible of fulfilment. it is recognised that a man is not to The motion should, in my opinion, be be regarded merely as a beast of burden, determined upon the basis of equity. doomed to work everlastingly for a pit­ The hon. member for Cessnock pertin­ tance. Our workers eilrn scarcely ently stated that about 50 per cent. of the enough to keep them sup1~lied with the workers enjoyed annual holidays at the bare necessities of life and have no expense of the other section which did chance of accumulating a fund .on which. not enjoy holidays. I sometimea won­ to retire when they reach the winter of der whether hon. members realise the their lives. The public servants of New problem of an annual holiday, which, South Wales, railway and tramway em·­ year in and year out, faces the indus­ ployees, bank employees, chop employees,. trial employee. I suppose most people warehouse workers, members of the do not appreciate his feeling of hope­ police force and many others enjoy the lessness. He does not enjoy even security privilege of annual holidays on full pay of employment. The most he can look and it should be our task to see that forward to is an occasional break from it is made universal. the monotonous routine when public This is not a matter to be brushed holidays occur. He realises that he is aside with a curt statement that it should never in a position to pack his belong­ be referred to the State Industrial Com­ ings and take his family to the seaside mission. From their inception in this to enjoy uature's bounteous sunshine and other countries arbitration tribunals nnd in tho.t way restore his health and have looked to Parliament for guidance fit himself for another yem·1s drudgery. when determining rates of nay and con­ To at least 50 per cent. of the community ditions of employment. Has any hon. that blessing is denied. It should be member the temerity to say that it is brought within their grasp. This Par­ wrong that public senants and the other liament \Yould be doing a humane action employees I have mentioned should re­ if it intimated to the State Industrial ceive annual recreation leave? None Commission that it was Parliament's would suggest such a thing. There is desire that annual holidays on full pay general agreement that the policy is should be provided for all workers in right and no hon. member would vote industry. to take away one clay's holiday from any As a result of years of association employee. So, if the State Industrial with \\Orkmg men on the lowest rung Commission has done the right thing in of the social ladder I know that the granting the privilege, and Parliament greatest boon which could be conferred has done the right thing in making such upon them is security of employment. a thing possible, hon. members, to be From the time that such men marry consistent, must admit that Parliament and assume family responsibilities until and the State Industrial Commission are the clay they die they are plagued with not doing the right thing when they the nightmare of unemployment. The fail to provide that all employees shall majority of them have no guarantee of enjoy the privilege. continuity of employment and are de­ The average person fully appreciates nied many simple comforts that are the economic insecurity of the man on enjoyed by the remainder of the com­ the lowest rung of the social ladder .. Just munity. how these people live I do not know. Mr. W. DAVIES: Their position is even Certainly I should not like to have t•) more insecure than ours, and that is exist under such conditions. Even when a significant admission! they enjoy good health and are not beset l.fr. J. 0. ROSS: That is so. The unduly with finoncial worries their out­ hon. member for Illawarra mentioned look is a gloomy one. The time has other countries that have recognised the arrived when Parliament should not wait right of a man to enjoy annual reC1·ea­ for these rights to be dragged from tion leave with an assured pay envelope employers. A good deal of talk had been during that time. In those countries indulged in about. lack of leadership. 25U Industrial Employees: [ASSEMBLY.) Annual II olidays.

I agree with much of it and believe that the committee made an apology for the now is the time that Parliament should fact that after an investigation of eight­ take action to give effect to some of the een months it could not supply the in­ practical modern and humane sugges­ formation that had been asked by Par- tions submitted to it. It is not right that . liament, and stated that it was impos­ Parliament shoultl try to suppress every sible for it to determine just how much move made to benefit the masses. Dur­ the people of Australia were taxed in­ ing the best years of his life the average directly as the result of the operation of worker labours to give satisfaction to his the tariff. Every worker who buys a employer and his only break from toil. loaf of bread or a pound of sugar contri­ is at. the week-ends and on public holi­ butes indirectly to the revenue of the days. It is only right and just that Commonwealth and the State. Work­ every working man in the community er~ should not be regarded as so many should be able to take his family away cattle to be given the bare necessari·es of for a peaceful fortnight's holiday each life as a full recompense for their ardu­ year without the worry and distress that ous labour. The working man is not come from the knowledge that while he called upon to use a great amount of is out of employment no money is being mental power. . He is not trained for earned to meet family requirements. that, neither is he asked to do it. But There is nothing radical in this proposal, what he does give is his very heart's and it is not right for us to wash our blood to the industry in which he is en­ hands of it and to say that it should be gaged, and in giving service to the in­ dealt with not by Parliament 'but by the dustry he gives service to the State. I Arbitn,tion Court. Parliament must . hope that the motion mo;red by the hon. protect the rights of the people and en· member for Cessnock will be agreed to sure that just and equitable treatment unanimously and will be given effect at is meted out to all sections of the com­ the earliest moment. munity. Mr. SWEE~EY (Bulli) [5.7]: The The hon. member for Willoughby by deputy-leader of the Opposition is to be interjection asked whether a man on the commended for introducing this motion, basic wage paid any taxation. I cer­ which is really long overdue. There was tainly wish that the only form of a time when this State was supposed to taxation in this State were direct lead other nations in respect of indus­ taxation. It is impossible for any trial reform, but it now appears that we body of men to compute the degree arc lagging far 'behind some countries, of indirect taxation that is paid particularly in regard to the granting of by the people of this State. In a fortnight'.s annual holiday on "full pay 1927, an economic committee was set up to all industrial workers. In many by the Bruce-Page Government to inves­ countries the workers enjoy a fort­ tigate the cost of the tariff ti:J the people night's holiday on full pay, but of the Commonwealth. The committee that privilege is denied many of was composed of leading economists, the workers in this State. I admit and they were asked to furnish their that in some of our industries report at the end of six months. When the workers do enjoy this privilege, and that period had elapsed, the committee that of course is a source of grave dis­ communicated. with the Government and satisfaction among the workers who are said it had met on several occasions but denied it, particularly as they have to had found it impossible to come to a contribute, by way of taxation, to the decision within the period set out, and cost of granting the concession to other therefore asked for an extension. The workers. If this concession were uni­ committee was given an extension of versal we should have a contented body twelve months, and at the end of eight­ of workers throughout the State. It een months it submitted its report, which would certainly improve the health con· is the only one of its kind in Australia. ditions of the working-class, and indus­ In the opening paragraph of the report try itself would benefit by the renewed Industrial Emp!cyces: [9 Xov., 1938.] A.nnu:Ll Ilolidays. 2543. energy which the workers would be able some impetus in Great Britain in recent to ap]Jiy to it after their return from a years. .It has been pointed out by hon. fortnight's holiday. The a'I.lsence of any members that an annual holiday is en­ prevision for annual holidays in industry joyed by an enormous number of workers has a very cruel effect. It frequently and in quite a number of countries it happens in industrial centres that medi­ is allowed by law. Of course, the whole cal men advise a male or female worker, matter would have to be reviewed, be­ or even a member of the family, that it cause we do not really understand the is necessary for health reasons that he conditions that operate in those coun­ or she, as the case might be, should spend tries. France and Belgium have been two or three weeks' holiday at the sea­ cited as examples. On my reading of side or in the country. In how many the matter, the annual holiday is not cases is it possible for a- man or a woman universal in Belgium. \Ve could almost to take advantage of that advice? Gene­ say that its application in Belgium is rally, people my to the doctor, ''How not as wide as in the State of New South am I to take a holiday?" The doc­ Wales, where it can be obtained through tor says, "I do not lmmv, but it is neces­ the ordinary court. The application of sary for your health. "Cnless you do take this holiday principle is wider in France a holiday there is no hope of recovery than in Belgium and in recent months and my treatment is absolutely useless." there has been a very decided movement I was not in any way impressed by the towards making it universal in Great fears that were expressed by the hon. Britain. · That movement has not been member for Willoughby when he said he confined to trade union circles, because did not think industry could stand such in Great Britain a number of conserva­ a strain. The same tale was preached tive members of the House of Com­ many years ago in Great Britain when mons and some of the radical members a movement was initiated to take the who are knuwn as Liberals believe that women and children out of the coal­ an annual holiday should be made uni­ mines. It was stated then that if that versal. V'vT e should endeavour to be quite were done the coalmines would have to fair in this matter. If it is right that close down, but they went on just the for the great civil service and for the same. The same objection is raised on various big undertakings and financial every occasion, but the fact remains that institutions, it should apply generally, the industries not only go on, but they not only to New South Wales, but to flourish. It has also been stated that it the whole of the Commonwealth. 111e should be left to the Arbitration Court lot of mankind has been improved in to grant these holidays and that it has recent years, but there is still room for already granted them in a number of improvement. vVe are only here for what cases. That is one reason why the matter may be described as ''a short period" and should be taken out of the hands of the we should try to make this world as Arbitration Court, and the Government happy as possible for the people who should take the lead and say definitely are living in it. There is no other con­ that these holidays should be given. If sideration on which legislation could be the Government had the courage to sup­ based. If by legislation the men and port this motion, it would be doing some­ women of this country were to be given thing to "put itself on the map." It an annual holiday, it would be in the would be doing something in the in­ best interests of the nation. There is terests of the workers and of humanity another aspect. It is sure to be stated generally. I sincerely hope that the that it will be impossible for industry motion will be agreed to. · to finance this almost revolutionary idea. Mr. ARKINS (Dulwich Hill) [5.13]: There are quite a number of industries I have been particularly interested in the that are giving this holiday at the pre­ debate and I regard it as the culmination sent time and some of them are in a of an interest that I have taken in this flourishing condition. That is one of movement, which, apparently bas gained the great contradictions. It is argued .2544 Industrial Employees: [ASSEllfBLY.] Annual Holidays.

by some people that if this annual holi­ often: the case. I cannot agree to the day is given, industry will stagnate and motion r.s it appears on the business things will go back. Take the case of paper. the Uni.ted States of America. :Xearly :Mr. LAxo: Wh,y? all the big undertakings there have Jl.fr. ARKINS : There was no maturity instituted a minimum wage, and pre­ of ideas in the arguments adduced in scribed the maximum number of hours. favour of the Annual Holiday Bill in Instead of those companies going back Great Britain, quoted by the hon. mem­ they are to-day among some of the ber for Oessnock, that holiday benefits richest in the United States. should be introduced immediately. The Jl.fr. W. DAnES: They have improved :-ear 1941 was mentioned, showing that the organisation! Great Britain favoured moving slowly. 11-fr. ARKIXS: Yes, and I believe that Jl.fr. RrcnAHDSOX: It would require will happen here, and it will happen legislation ! €Verywhere with the advance of technical 1\h. AHKINS: Yes. In dealing with knowledge that must go on under mod­ a matter like this, we must bear in mind €1'll scientific deYelopment. It would be its implication in regard to other States. ()nly a fair thing to gi>e an annual holi­ The Federal Parliament could afford to day to the workers. s:n~8 quite ['. num­ take a risk because the effect of its legis­ ber of the workers haY<' been enjoying lation would be spread over the whole an annual holiday and have been able Oommon\vealth. to go away to tourist resorts, the Kat­ ()omba-Leur a district may be regarded Jl.fr. ToxGE: The hon. member knows as almost a city. Those towns depend that the Federal Parliament cannot for their existence on the tourist. traffic, legislate in regard to industry! and when the workers get their holidays Mr. ARKINS: To some extent, it is they go there with their wives and fami­ tied. If it were shown that all the S'tates lies. There is a fringe of coastline in desired this legislation, I believe it could Australia where the l)Opulation virtually be implemented by a Commonwealth uepends for its existence on holiday statute. There is not only the internal makers. There was a time when the position. to consider. It would be unwise workers had practically no holidays and to impose fUCh a burden solely on this worked almost round the clock. State's industries. If a thousand em­ JI.Ir. L!XG: There was a time when ployees were granted two weeks' annual they were working eighteen hours a day holiday, wa,ys and means would have to with no holidays and no sleeping time! be discovered to provide 2,000 weeks unearned wages. \Vhen men are paid JI.Ir. ARKINS: They would have to from £4 to £8 a \Yeek the total amount have time in which to sleep. involved is very great. There should be Jl.fr. FRAXR BuRKE: They had very a full investigation. I am not prepared little! to say that the Government has been tM:r. ARIUNS: That may be so. negligent in this matter. Hon. mem­ 'Social life was entirely different then bers will recollect that I asked in the from what it is now. House recently whether the Govern­ Mr. FRAXK BuRKE: I can speak of my ment would inquire into what was being ·Dwn time and of my own experience ! done in other parts of the world with respect to universal annual holidays. I Jl.fr. ARKINS: I quite believe that. understand the Government has made When the hon. member for Newtown some inquiries and that the department was a boy the conditions were anything under which this matter comes has been but good. There was a revolt against actively interested. Even i{ i11y amend­ 'Conditions and that was followed by im­ ment were accepted, it would not neces­ provements which benefited not only the sarily mean an end to this class of legis­ worker but the master in industry, as is· lation. A marked step towards social Industrial Employees: [9 Nov., 1938.] Annual Holidays. 25!5

betterment was taken by the Federal Government of New Zealand or by other House when it passed its n:ational in­ Labour Governments in the Common­ surance legislation. wealth. It is all very well to demand Mr. CARLTON: A very doubtful privi­ legislation to provide for a revolutionary lege! scheme. Mr. ARKINS': These matters should Mr. ToNGE: The other States would be weighed carefully. After lea=ing then follow New South Wales! of the developments that have taken J\IIr. ARKINS: I am not prepared to place in about forty other countries, I say that. The Labour Government did am sure hon. members will agree that it not adopt that proposal. If I were to is the proper time to start a national advocate the adoption of a proposal to scheme here. In dealing with this pro­ improve the social structure and demand blem, we must not overlook the primaTy that legislation should be enacted imme­ industries. Our primary industries are diately I would not expect the hon. mem­ in quite a different position to those of ber to vote for it. Great Britain. Her exports of primary Mr. ToNGE: If it were a good proposal products are small. I suppose she hardly I probably would vote for it! exports a bushel of wheat, a pound of butter or a side of bacon. Most of her Mr. ARKINS: I would not expect the requirements in primary products, are hon. member to move that his Govern­ imported, while the primary industries ment should take immediate action. If of Australia depend for their existence he moved for an immediate investigation almost wholly on exports. It would be I would support him and would expect unwise to accept the motion as it stands. other hon. members do so. A demand If the- proposal can be placed on an has been made that a universal holiday economic l:asis the time is ripe for a should be adopted without investigation universal annual holiday, but it should and it is alleged that the Government not be introduced without proper inves­ has been neglectful. tigation. The enormous increase in the Mr. ToxaE: The hon. member said he tourist traffic has been responsible for believed in a universal holiday! extensive employment. In these days 1Yir. ARKINS: I believe in the broad when a huge metropolis is being built principle, although I do not support the up and the public are faced with a com­ proposal that legislation should be plex civilisation social amelioration must brought in immediately to provide for go parallel with industrial life. If man­ a universal holiday on full pay for e-very kind creates a complex civilisation it worker in New South Wales. It should should be so built as to give the greatest not be done without investigation. It possible benefits to mankind. For that might be possible to determine such a reason I think it would be unwise to principle with respect to the rural indus­ agree to the motion. tries, but it might be found that the dairy Mr. ToNGE: Why? industry would be greatly penalise~ Mr. ARKINS: Because it is a direct if such a law were passed. There might demand on the Government that it be such a heavy penalty imposed upon should immediately do something. As the dairy industry that it would be a Government supporter I am not pre­ unable to carry on, but if it can be pared to say the Government has been shown to me that it would have no neglectful in that respect. For years prejudicial effect upon that industry I there has been a demand foT different would raise no objection to its adoption. social reforms. Mr. ToNGE: The argument that it Mr. ToNGE: l!fust New South Wales might affect interstate trade was used always lag behind? against the forty-four hours working Mr. ARKINS : No. Can the hon. week and every other reform! member show me where a universal holi­ Mr. ARIUNS: The Queensland Gov­ day has been granted by any other State? ernment has repeatedly referred to the It has not been adop~ed by the Labour effect upon the industries in that Stat~ 7Y 2146 Indwtrial Employees.: [ASSEMBLY.] Annttal Holidays.

if certain legislation were enacted. If of big institutions and thos.e genera,)],}r.,! the Government investigated the pro­ engaged in "white-collar" jobs to re­ posal for a universal holiday and found ceive a fortnight's holiday with pay that it was in operation in Great every year, it should be gDod enough to Britain, France, Belgi,lm, and other extend the privilege to every other sec:- ~ countries, and that no diti

for years seen :fit to award to _various ~ec­ There can _be no ::~rgument against the tions. Hecently Chief .Judge Dethridge, worker receiving a holiday at the end in the Commom\r.ealth Arbitration Court, of the year; all the hon. member say:S made it abundantly clear that unions is that there has not been an ade­ ·desiring to secure annual leave for their quate inquiry into the matter. I dif­ members had only to make the nccessar~· fer from him and say there have been application to the court in order to re­ ample inquiries, and it is now only a ceive t1te privilege. If that ne the posi­ matter for this House to say by a unani­ tion, it would appear that all the in­ mous vote that what has been done by quiry, investigation and probing sug­ the Industrial Arbitration .Court and gested by the hon. member has been what we have done with our own State . done. At least it has been carried out to employees should become the law of the the satisfaction of the industrial tribu­ land with respect to those engaged in·_ nals. I have no doubt that the hon. industry generally. Judge Dr:>.ke-Brock-­ member will contend that the concession man indicated that the court woulil ·cannot be made applicable to all indus­ favourably consider all applications for tries-; but that is so much splitting of the inclusion of a paid annual holliday straws; The Industrial Commission has in awards. There are many awards to­ granted annual leave with pay to em: day in which this operates. With em­ ployees in the textile trade. In the cir­ ployees of insurance -companies, journal­ cumstances, why should a thorough in­ ists, and the like, to a very great ex_teiit. vestigation be necessary before making awards have been made by consent, but . ·a similar award in respect of the cloth­ the court has now broken new ground ing trades? The whole subject has been and is delivering awards containing th·a.t so thoroughly probed that no necessity ·very provision. · · .exists for further prolonging the inquir,v. When Mr. Ernest Bevin, of t-he. Eng~ The principle that a worker has an un­ lish Trade Union Conference, was in deniable right to receive annual leave New South Wales recently I discussed with pay is almost universally accepted. with him the question of annual holi­ The position to-day is that a worker days as applied in the Old Country. in receipt of the basic wage who is not ~fr. A. E. REID: How could it apply granted annual leave incurs heavier ex­ in the case of farm labourers! penses at Christmas than normally dur­ Mr. HEFFRON: In England the· ing the year, just at the time when he trade union conference held a very ex­ should 'be given a little extra to tide him haustive inquiry into the matter and,. over the festive season. To this clasa as a result of its investigations, was ·annual holidays without pay are more satisfied that the farm labourers could a curse than a blessing. Ron. members be provided for. Laj;er, Lord Amulree may contend that as the worker is in was commissioned by the Minister for employment he should be able to save Labour to hold a similar inquiry, and in sufficient to enable him to afford an an­ the report of that investigation it was m1al holiday. It is all very wen to say indicated that there were certain rather that; but in point of fact, about 70 per serious difficulties in the way of pro­ cent. of Australian workers are not able viding for farm labourers and such like to save from week to week, and some workers, but they were so impressed, as are actually in debt. After bills have a result of the investigations that were been paid very little remains to provide made, that it was felt the annual holida~' for an annual vacation. A holiday can would be justified, and _they recom7 scarcely be regarded as such if the in­ mended accordingly.. - - dividual has to worry alnut his inability Mr. A. E. REID: I want. to suppQrt th~ 'j;o meet· bills at the end of every week. · proposal, but I should like to know in The hon, . member did not dispute that: what way it can be- done1 · · - ·' 2548 I ndust1'ial Employees: [ASSEMBI.Y.] Annual Holidays.

Mr. HEFFRON: At the moment I practice in England. He summarised cannot say specifically how it could be the findings of the Trades Union Con­ applied to farm labourers, but I might ference in this way: he said that the clear up the hon. member's difficulty by granting of annual holidays was a mea­ saying that the commission of inquiry sure of social justice and contributed in England was faced with the problem of dealing with seasonal and casual wor­ to the fairer distribution of employment kers and made a recommendation that and leisure. Holidays were a social right the holiday should be brought about hy belonging to the workers and should be means of a card system. As the worker a charge on industry, prior even to in­ went from one employer to another, each terest on capital. He said that annual employer would sign a card and indicate holidays have proved in practice to bs the amount of work the employee harl good business because they reduce done, and at the end of the year it could absenteeism, improve efficiency and tend be ascertained just exactly what amount to harmonious industrial relationships. of work he had performed and for whon1 he .had worked. T realise that when we The hon. member for Cessnock was come to deal with a matter of this kind modest in his claim when he asked far there will be quite a number of difficul­ seven days holiday in the first year. I ties,. but if the Legislature has the will thought he could easily have asked for to pass the necessary legislation, I am fourteen days. I mentiop. it simply sure those difficulties can be surmounted. because I feel that right is so much on Mr. A. E. REm: But farm labourers the side of the worker in industry all work at one particular time of the that we should not be afraid to ask for .Year! at least two weeks leisure when the wor­ JYir. HEFFRON: The seasonal wor­ ker has performed a year's service .. The ·ker on a farm gravitates in due time International Labour Office at Geneva to some other employment. He may go to has from time to time held inquiries the city and work as a builder's labourer. into this matter. In 1936, as a result of We have to. give a matter of this kind very extensive investigation, it brought the widest possible application, and down a recommendation for a six although there may be difficulties about days holiday per year with pay for adult which we could argue for hours, if in workers, and for those under the age of the more settled industries those engaged sixteen years, two weeks' holiday in each in the manufacture of textiles can be year. One sees throughout the report an given an annual holiday, there is no rea­ admission that the holiday cannot be son why the same thing should not apply argued against because the right is ob­ . also to persons engaged in the manufac­ vious to everyone. We recognise it with ture of boots, iron, steel, or any other our own Crown employees; the Federal commodit;y. Arbitration Court recognises it by grant­ I was saying that when Mr. Ernest ing it to those who come along for · Bevin was here I discussed with him awards to be made including it. For very fully the question of the applica · these reasons I ask the House to support tion of annual leave in the Old Country the motion moved by the hon. member arid he told me a great deal about the for Cessnock, and I hope it will be investigations of the Trades Union Con­ agreed to unanimously. ference. He said that despite the dif­ Debate adjourned. ficulties which have been raised by hon. [Government b1tsiness called on pursuant members, they had the utmost confid­ to eessional order.] ence that within the next year or two the . [Mr. Speake1' left the chai1· at 6 p.m. annual holiday would be the recognised The House 1'e8umed at. 7.30 p.m.] The Budget. [9 Nov., 1938.] The Budget. 2549

THE BUDGET. which they have to pay their tram and FIFTH DAY'S DEEATE. train fares to and from work. Benefits to City Workers-Meat Industry-Defence An RoN. ME~mEn: Most of them live Organisation-Land for Housing-Lot Splitting -Completion of City Hailway-Rent of Govern­ at home with their parents! ment Offices-Traffic Control-Public Works: Constructing Authorities-Macquarie-street: He­ Mr. CARTER: I grant, that many of building Encroachmet:ts on Parks-Inci~ence them do. But something should be done of Taxation-Extent of Unemployment Rehel­ Pilat • Steamer Employees-Traffic: Hight of to enable young· married women who Wav-Holidavs for Industrial Employees­ have children to obtain domestic assist­ Allocation o( Special Income and 'Vages Tax­ Tourist Ro,ds-Stock Diseases-Additions to ance. They are entitled to reasonable Countrv Hospitals--Railway Level Crossings­ Closer· Settlemc·nt-Priccs of Flour and Bread help, and are willing to pay a fair wage -Conntrv School Buildings-'l;_ec·hnical Educa­ for it. Further, these married women tion-Fol·est Hescrves: Noxious Plants. have comfortable homes to offer domestic IN CO:MMI'ITEE OF WAYS AND MEANS. helps. One serious thing from which the Debate resumed (from 4th November, State is suffering is the cost of the dis­ page 2501), on motion by Mr. vide tribution of primary products. There is a Stevens: very great difference between the price 'That towards making good the supply which the producer receives for his pro­ granted to his Majesty for the services of the financial year 1938-39, there be granted duce and the price which the consumer out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund the has to pay for it. That is the result sum of £1,428 as supplement to the schedules of ill-considered awards and condi­ to the Constitution Act for the year tiom: of employment. The driver of a 1938-39. milk cart, no matter what his age, must 1fr. CARTER (Liverpool Plains) be paid adult wages, when a youth could [7.30] : When the debate was adjourned well do the work for less money. An I was endeavouring to show what a sub­ award demands that an adult wage must stantial benefit the Budget confers be paid to' many men whose work could upon city workers and how it confers no be efficiently performed by youths. Be­ such benefit on country workers. cause of that, the consumer has to pay Mr. SHAKNOK: There are more workers more for what he buys. The price that in the citv than in the country! the dairy farmer receives for his milk is Mr. CARTER: I admit that, but the doubled before it reaches the consumer. Budget confers greater benefits on the The grazier receives from 3d. to 5d. a worken of the city. I wae, interested in lb. for meat, and for this the con­ what the hon. member for 1£udgee said sumer pays from 10d. to 15d. a lb. regarding the wages of women workers. The fact is that some men en­ I admit that many women workers may gaged in handling foodstuffs in the be underpaid, but many women workers city earn as much in a day as the are doing work that ought to be done farmer does in a week. It is necessary by boys and men. In that lies our great that there should be some levelling up, economic difficulty. Many girls and so that the producer can get a better young women, in accepting employ­ re~lEn for his labour and the consumer ment, take work from boys and young cheaper foodstuffs. men, and there are not sufficient girls To·wards, the end of last year a select and young women to fill domestic posi­ committee of this House was appointed tions, especially in the country. Young to inquire into the meat industry. That married women with children find it committee spent considerable time in most difficult to obtain domestic help, examining witnesses and investigated rnd are compelled to do their own the subject fairly thoroughly. It sat on laundry and housework, which frEi­ twenty-three days, examined thirty-two quently reEults in injury to their health. witnesses, and 5,461 questions were asked Although these young married women and ans,wered. The committee took evi­ have good homes to offer domestics they dence in Victoria and South Australia, cannot get them. Yet in the junior as well as in New South \Vales, and had ranks of employment there are girls it continued its inquiry, conditions in earning from 18s. to £1 a week, out of the meat industry would prob3bly be 255() The Budget. (ASSEMBLY.]

better to-day. Had the inquiry been pled. That is not right, and the prac­ extended, I do not say that the commit­ tice should be looked into. Those in tee could have remedied the evil alto­ charge of the yard should use their re­ gether, but it could have done a great sponsibility and ensure that these deal of good for the industry. The things are not permitted to continue. hon. member who is now the Colonial About twelve months ago the butchers Treasurer was deputed by the Premier claimed double rates for killing daggy to take up the question, and he did it or fly-blown sheep. Although this Cham­ well. I am glad to know that the Pre­ ber disallowed the regulation something mier proposes to shortly bri11g down a else has cropped up and butchers now measure to deal with "lot splitting" in refuse. to do that for which they pre­ connection with the sale of wool and viously claimed double rates. Therefore s:tock. Although the Colonial Trea­ the position of the producer is worse surer has smoothed things over, and, to than it was before. Recently it was a certain extent, afforded relief, the found necessary to impose a quota upon position in the trade is still unsatisfac­ each butcher killing at the abattoir, the tory. I refer to no particular section excuse being that there was not sufficient of the trade, and I do not blame the freezing space for the number of sheep workers, the butchers, nor the adminis­ and lambs coming in. This year a good tration, but I do say that the producers season is being experienced in the north are suffering an injustice. At the and north-west, but in the west and south Flemington saleyards, butchers refuse to they have had the driest period experi­ take delivery of daggy or flyblown sheep. enced for years, and we have coming · Travelling sheep frequently eat certain in only about two-thirds the number of weeds on the road and become scoured, fat sheep that may be expected in a uni­ and when they reach Flemington are versally good year. If there is insuffi­ offensive. A man with a pair of shears cient freezing space in a year when the . could remedy that condition in a few peak period is but moderate, what is to minutes, but that is not done. The happen when we have a universally master butchers refuse to take delivery good season? In the past a good of such sheep, which are sent away for deal of money has been spent at boiling down, the owner receiving about the abattoir, not always judicious,ly, half the value of the animal. Recently and it is essential that before next I saw a lamb sold for l!:h ;vhich was season the Government should pro­ put back into the yard, and I was in­ vide more adequate accommodation for formed that the owner would· receive freezing lambs. We are told that there only 9s. for it. When a sheep or a lamb is provi&ion for hanging 20,000 car­ breaks a toe or bruises a hoof cases at one time. There is unlimited it is called a cripple and the' space for frozen mutton. What is needed butchers will not take delivery, and the is hanging space. It ta·kes about two animal is sent away for boiling down. days for a carcase to become chilled and ·'That sort of thing tends to keep up the frozen. After that it may be packed ·price of meat, and to rob the producer away in cold storage without difficulty. of the small profit to which he is en­ In the interests of the producers I :titled. It would not be difficult and ask the Minister to use his influence to ··would not cost much to arrange for ensure that the freezing accommodation ~.such sheep to be transported to the is increased before we experience our next .abattoir by motor lorry. But no peak season, to prevent losses occurring such provision is made. The in the event of a glut, and to obviate the producer, away in the country, knows need of imposing a quota upon butch­ nothing about it. He receiws an ac­ ers. It was estimated about three weeks count sales showing the sheep as crip­ ago that a fall of nearly two shillings a pled but he does not know how they head had taken place, simply because are crippled. In that instance fly-blown butchers could not kill all the sheep and lambs were accounted for as being. crip- lambs producers desired to have killed·. · The Budget. [9 Nov., 1938.] The Budget. : 2551

1Ir. 1\fAm: It happened for only two accommodation at the abattoir is in­ .or three days ! creased, and that some of the troubles . Mr. CARTER: I admit that, but still to which I have referred are obliterated. · it happened, and if it takes place in a Brigadier-Gen. LLOYD (Mosman) _year such as this, when supplies are [7.47]: I appreciate the courtesy of the moderate, what is going to be the posi­ Treasurer and the leader of the Opposi­ tion in a really good season ? tion in allowing me to interpose at this Mr. MAIR: It was because of the dry juncture. I desire to bring before Par­ period that so much stock was brought liament a matter that appears to me to to Sydney! be of vital importance. In no sense is Mr. CARTER: Tl1ere is always a peak it political. As a matter of fact in the ]leriod some time in September, October :Federal sphere at the present time the · .()r November. This year it occurred Labour party is rather taking a lead in later than in some other years. People ideas concerning defence. Obviously, in the north-west usually get their fat when Federation was established, it was lGmbs to market in September and those impossible to foresee everything. When -in the south in ::'\ovember. This year the post office, customs and defence activi­ peak at Flemington occurred towards the ties were handed over to the Federal

l!fr. D. CLYNE (King) [8.1]: In his interest. That, coupled with a reduc­ speech the hon. member for Liverpool tion in the fares in the outer suburbs Plains returned to the country versus would be a very valuable contribution

but they have allowed it to go on. Why been disorganised. Stagnation and de­ has it been allowed to go on? It has cay abound everywhere. If they would been allowed to go on because the Com­ then turn their attention to the eastern monwealth and State do not appear to end they would see an arch bearing the have the courage and capacity to deal inscription "City Railway, 1918," as a with· the position. monument of ineptitude, neglect and :Thir. CARTER: It will not go on much twenty years' blundering and incapacity. Tonge~! A considerable sum of money has been :liir. D. CLYNE: I hope it will not. I expended on this incomplete section and happen to know something about it by about £50,000 a year goes in interest. reason of my association with the trade The Government welcomes the com­ a few years ago. Ever since I have plaints and appoints committees to in­ been in this House I have advocated its quire into them. That has happened year· abolition. after year. On the unopened section of Another matter to which I desire to the Circular Quay railway £912,222 has direct the attention of the HouE,e is already been expended on construction. the. most extraordinary way in which Resumptions have cost £.351,880, making the' underground city railway has been a total of £1,264,102, including con­ held up during the last ten years. The struction work and land resumptions. tragic circumstances at Circular Q'uay The cost of the completed sections from are astounding. There has been a Central Station to St. James, and from spoilation of business and land values Central Station to \Vynyard, includ­ in . the district have suffered. The ing resumptions, was £7,500,000. Those equities in the property have been de­ sections are now revenue producing and stroyed, and there has been a very are supplying a great service to the com­ substantial loss in Citv Goum:il munity, but they cannot be put to their rates. Ferry and tram se;vices have full use because there is a dead-end at been disorganised. In my place in St. James and another at 'iVyn:vard. On Parliament I have asked the Premier the small incomplete Circular Quay sec­ and . the :Thfinister for Transport tion, £1,264,000 has been expended, on questions in regard to this matter, which the interest is £50,000 a year. but I have never received a frank or There are millions of pounds worth of full reply. The reply from time to time resumed land lying idle and unproduc­ js that the matter is under considera­ tive on Observatory Hill on which in­ tion a:t;J.d that authority has been given terest must be paid by the unfortunate for the work to be under way in a few taxpayer. The City Council is a heavy days. I tell the House that . there is loser through loss of rates on property scarcely a man employed on that work that would otherwise be rate-producing. to-day. The beautiful Sydney Cove It must maintain the streets, the road­ looks as though it had been shelled by ways !)nd other social services in a dis­ enemy guns. It has been shelled, trict from which it is not receiving any­ but it has been by the Stevens-Bruxner thing like the rates that it should. Ob­ Government. They have been shelling it S'ervatory Hill is one of the best resi­ for ten years. I do not know why this dential sites in the older portion of Syd­ work has not been proceeded with. The ney. It overlooks the harbour and has a locatiQn of the city railway across Cir­ magnificent view. Being adjacent to the cular Quay. was determined long ago, waterfront and to the business centre .and large sums of money have been of the town, it would make an ideal expended on the construction of that residential area, and for a long time I work. A huge sum of money is being have advocated that it should be paid by way of interest each year. If declared such. Because of the labour hon.. members will take a stroll down to which is necessary to work the port of Circular Quay they will see for them­ Sydney, it is absolutely necessary that selves its dilapidated condition, and the a large number of maritime workers way in which the transport services have should be housed close to the waterfr011t. 255-3 The Budget. [ASSEMBLY.] The Budget.

lAlst year the Port of Sydney handled offices, which it could do for much less about 2-J,OOO,OOO gross tO!lS of cargo. than it is now paying for obsolete and The waterside worker must be ready for unsuitable premises? I estimate that a call at any hour of the day or night. the expenditure of £1,500,000, which Shipping masters are obliged to get their could comfortably be obtained at 4 per boats away and it frequently happens cent. interest, would provide a block of that the men have to work into the small Government offices that would give hours, \vhen the ordinary transport sys­ greatez accommodation than that for tem no longer operates. Consequently which the Government is now paying they are unable to get transport home. £60,000 a year for in rent alone without I£ this land were utilised to provide including Government activities outside suitable accommodation for the mari­ the jurisdiction of the Public Service time workers all would be well. A por­ Board. Hon. members are told that tion could be set aside for residentials the Government has a sound business and accommodation houses. Govern­ outlook If that is so it should ment offices are now scattered in various examine this sound business proposi­ parts of the city. Those on the old tion. Why is a huge sum of money Mint site are not fit to house plague rats, being spent each year -in the rental of ,yet public servants are housed in them. obsolete buildings and why does not the On wet days tubs and buckets are neces­ Government avail itself of the opportun­ sary to catch the water. We pay fancy ity to build a block of Government prices for floor space. This is an oppor­ offices and establish a sinking fund for tunity to build a substantial block of the payment of interest? I venture Government offices close to Parliament to say that in a very brief period it at, a great saving. The existing would be in possession of the buildings. offices are uneconomic because of their With regard to the sabotaging of the location. They are old, obsolete, badly Underground City Railway year after ventilated and badly lighted, and year, I fail to understand why the Gov­ do not contain necessary facilities. The ernment continues to hold up the com­ Government is now renting 186,944 pletion of this work. It uneconomica1lv square feet of space for which it pays uses the railway systems on either side 4s. ld. per square foot, plus cleaning, of Circular Quay and continues to pay lighting and heating charges. In addi­ £50,000 interest on frozen capital each tion to that it rents 97,395 square feet year instead of completing that work in the old Savings Bank building and allowing it to oocome revenue pro­ from the Commonwealth Bank, for which ducing. It should be linked up with it pays 5s. 6d. a square foot, including the railway transport services. The only cleaning and heating charges. reason I can adduce is that it is delib­ Mr. SANDERS: Is that the charge per erately left in an uncompleted state. annum? During the debate the hon. member for Mr. D. CLYNE: Yes. That is only Liverpool Plains introduced the question hal£ the story, because the figures that I · of country versus city. The Country have quoted do not include a number of party has a dominating influence in tl1e Government boards and semi-Govern­ Cabinet and is delaying the construction ment bodies that do not come under of the railway. The Minister for Trans­ the jurisdiction of the Public Service port has more influence with the Pre­ Board. They apply only to the buildings mier with regard to this matter than that come under the jurisdiction of the any other hon. member and he continues board. Why does not the Government to hold up the work Whenever the· avail itself of the opportunity of utilis­ Premier receives a deputation and pro­ ing the excellent land that is now avail­ mises that the work will bf' facilitated nble m1·ing to the reconstruction of the there is an agitation for the suspenfalues haYe slumped considerably, courage and the capacity to complete fl.nd many property owners, both small the last link of the city raihvay. It and large, have been ruined. Equitie8 has the experience of its own enginee;s would be restored to some extent. The and experts; it has the plans and speci­ City Council which is responsible for :fications prepared years ago by Dr carrying out the social services of the Bradfield; but the work has not bee~1 city would benefit considerably as the carried out. It should have been com­ result of the completion of this work pleted long ago, but vested interests because a great deal of idle land that is repeatedly intervene. A meeting is calk·'' not revenue-producing would become and a deputation subsequently waits ratable and would benefit the exchequer upon the Minister for Transport. The of the City Council. It would also sub­ association objects to the plan and speci­ stantially improve the control of traffic. fications and the Government welcomes Traffic control is another serious prob­ this as an opportunity b aprroint an­ lem.· I have taken a great deal of in­ other commission. It appoints Sir John terest in it, both in the city and country Butters or someone else and the work during the last few years, and I have is sabot2.ged for another twelve months, observed a very substantial improve­ while a report is prepared. "When the ment. Police officers are much more report is presented to the Government efficient and courteous than in the past. there is a further delay. It is a Govern­ Pedestrians are more subject to discip­ ment responsibility and in the intere3ts line and are more anxious to help the of the people not only of the metro­ police who are controlling traffic, as well politan area, but of taxpayers of thr. as the motorist. I have noticed a decided State generally the work should be com­ improvement in the conduct of the aver­ pleted. The Government has no right to age motorist. A little while ago if police continue to pay a huge interest bill were not in control at a busy section year after year on frozen capital or to motorists would invariably pass through hold up the underground railway sv"­ the crossings without slackening sneed; tem by leaving two dead-ends. The but to-day they are more hesitm;t -at work is protracted because the Govern­ street crcssings and I have seen ment iR not capable of reaching a de­ them beckon pedestrians to cross the CISIOn. The Country party is pulling streets. There should be additional one way and the United Australia party the other and the people are being cruci­ avenues of escape from the city. N ar­ fied between the two. · row, poky streets minimise the flow of Mr. DICKSON: What will it cost to traffic to the main arteries which be­ complete the railway? come congested. Many western sub­ Mr. D. CLYNE: Approximately a urbs motorists now proceed through couple of millions. Chalmers-street, City-road and Cleve­ Mr. Drm;:sox: Not very much, is it? land-street, instead of using Parramatta­ Mr. D. CLYNE: It might not cost road. Others, proceeding to the eastern that sum. I am not in a position to say. suburbs, avoid the traffic jams which I am not quite sure whether it is ap­ occur in Oxford and William-streets by proximately £1,000,000 or £2,000,000. Until a final Echeme is adopted it is deviating through the streets of East impossible to say. The comr:letion of Sydney and Woolloomooloo and through the Quay section of the City Rdway the Domain. 2558 The Budget. [.t\_SSEMBLY.J The Budget.

Plans for the underground city rail­ involved in work of this kind. Although way · also pr.ovide for a superimposed the Commissioner for Railways is sup­ overhead roadway to convey vehicular posed to bB the principal constructor of traffic from the eastern side across the the underground city railway, the De­ railway system to the Bradfield High­ partment of Road Transport and Tram­ way; · and the' Butters scheme pro­ ways plays a very important part, beca)lse vides for the route to pass under­ it attends to that portion of the service neath the Bradfield Highway, pro­ required for tramcars. The Department ceed in a circular manner and of Public Works also enters into the pick up with the flow of traffic again. matter; so also do the City Council, the The scheme seems to be excellent and Department of Main Roads, the Metroc I am anxious to see i.t put into opera­ politan \Vater, Sewerage, and Drainage tion. Why is the Government not per­ Board and the Australian Gas Light severing with it? I think I have put Company. my finger on the weak point. The G-ov­ Mr. CARLTON: 'What about the recon­ ernment is not able to make up its mind struction of the wharves? what it wants. It has responsible and capable officers, but instead of getting ~fr. D. CLYNE: The reorganisation down to bedrock, examining the position and reconstruction of the wharves will very thoroughly, making up its mind be carried out by the Department of and authorising the constructing authori­ Public Works under the supervision of ties to go ahead, it welcomes every oppor­ the ~faritime Services Board. The Gov" tunity to stay proceedings. Whenever ernment should co·ordinate the whole anybody questions the suitability of the of the constructing authorities. For sake scheme, whether it be the City Council, of argument, I suggest that complete an organisation of property owners, a authority in regard to this matter should municipality on the north side or any be vested in the Department of Public pther body, the Governmelll.t welcomes Works because it appears to be the most the opportunity to suspend operations, appropriate department to control the appoint a committee of inquiry and sabo­ work. If the responsibility were thrust tage the proposal. This delay has gone upon that department, I venture to say on long enough; the work must be com­ pleted sooner or later, and the Govern­ that it would proceed expeditiously witb ment should avail itself of the present the job. At present the Commissioner opportunity to finish it. When the for Railways is tied up because the underground railway system is function­ Department of Public Works, through ing as it should and traffic from the east the :Maritime Services Board, has not' side is conveyed along the superimposed advanced its portion of the construc'tion roadway, the proper reconstruction of sufficiently to enable the Commissioner that area will be undertaken. Its battle­ foT Railways to proceed. The Depart! scarred ·appearance will vanish and little ment of Road Transport and Tramways beauty spots and garden plots will appear has to make a deviation here or there; here and there. If the great block of Government offices to which I have re­ it completed Dne a little while ago. The ferred is built, it should be designed Government. offices also stand in the WU:J~ architecturally so as to add to the beauty of progress. I :r:efer specifically to the of the whole district. The Government Maritime Services Board offices and the should also declare The Rocks to be a fire station at Circular Quay. Both of residential area. Combined, these im~ these Government buildings are, as it provements would be tD the advanta~e were, right in the line of fire. Although not only of the district but also of the State. Governments have been aware of this While dealing with this proposal I position for at least ten years, the desire to direct attention to the number buildings still stand there and no provi~ of conflicting constructing authorities sion has been made to transfer the fire The Budget. [9 Nov., 1938.] The Budget.· 2559 station and the offices of the Maritime long time. Although it has appointed Services Board to a more suitable certain committees, and plans and speci­ locality. fications have been drawn up and recom-. Mr. SANDERS: The Government has mended to it, the Government appears aC!juired the premises! to be unable to ·make up its mind what to do. Nobody knows exactly what is .M:r. D. CLYNE: Yes, but it has made going to .happellj in l\iacquarie-street. no provision to transfer the offices or to house·them elsewhere. Consequently, the Whether it will be reconstructed> buildings cannot be pulled down and whether the Law Courts will be built on the old Mint site and whether the hospi­ they are impeding progress. tal will be pushed back, as it were, int() Mr. SANDERS: First of all, Goldsbrough the Domain or elsewhere, nobody seem~ Mort1s building has to be converted! to know. I protest against this delay and Mr. D. CLYNE: When I asked a ques­ uncertainty. If the Government is not tion respecting the Goldsbrough Mort prepared to go ·on with the work it proposal, the Government denied that it would be fair and reasonable for it t(} had any intention of putting the offices declare that having thoroughly examined there. At the same time a proposal has the matter, it had determined upon a been made to put them in a more suitable certain plan but was unable to put it locality. On 2nd May, 1938, the Premier into oreration this year and proposed t() promised a deputation to provide money proceed with it next year; or on the and t6 request the Commissioner for other hand it could announce that it Railways to proceed with the work. He proposed to do nothing at all in regard has neither found the money nor di­ to the matter. The business and com­ rected the Commissioner for Railways mercial community, together with the to proceed. If he has found the money, professional men of Macquarie-street, it has mysteriously disappeared; and if want to know what the Government is he did instruct the Commissioner for doing about the matter. There has been Railways to proceed with the work, all ·a great deal of publicity in the news­ I can say is that a few men were em­ papers from tim€ to time; we have seen ployed to carry out certain preliminary a summarised version of the reports re­ work. Because the Government did not ceived from Sir John Butters and others, adopt a complete plan; be-cause various together with pictures of the proposed constructing authorities, including the law courts and the reconditioned Sydney }l{aritime Services B0ard, were behind Hospital. So far as I am concerned­ with their share of the work, because and it is the only logical attitude for the Government, through its bungling any public-spirited man to adopt-I incapacity, has not removed the 1\f:ari­ object to the filching of the people's · time Services Board and the fire station; parks. I am no~ ~oing to stand for one 1 and for various other reasons for whi" l foot of the public Domain being taken jt is responsible, the Commissioner for for any purpose, and I have adopted that Railways has not proceeded and is un­ attitude ever since I have been in this able to proceed with the work. That is House. WhBn it was prop0sed to take my reply to the Premier's promise. There a part of the University Park at Parra­ has been no constructive plann:ng or matta-road; when a piece of the park statesmanship in regard to this matter. in CoHege-street was filched; when part The Government has displayed no or­ of Hyde Park was taken upon which to­ ganised planning and has not adopted erect the Anzac 1\femorial, I protested any long-range view. It is time that it and voted against the proposals. I pro­ woke up and completed the work. tested against the encroachment by the The uncertainty existing with respect Commonwealth authorities en Observa-­ to the reconstruction of l\facquarie-street tory Hill, and I submitted that the sta­ is a matter of great importance to my tion should have been removed to constituents. Here again, the Govern­ 1faroubra, French's Forest, or some other ment has been dilly-dallying for :1 place. It is ·seriously suggested that m 2b6J The Budget. LASSE:MBLY.] The Budget. the reconstruction of }facquarie-street and saw ships tied up and thr wharf the Government intends to place the law labourers developing a "go-slow" policy, courts at the head of Martin Place; that while the "coalies" were doing the~r the front portion of the Sydney Hospital work in such a manner that women lle converted into law courts, and the in Jamaica could do it six times a9 hospital be pushed back into the Domain. fast. If that is the intention of the Govern­ The leader of the Opposition, when ment, I am opposed to it. I would addressing the House the other night, welcome an announcement from the Gov­ adversely criticised the Government's ernment as to what it intends to do Budget figures. I tried to follow him .a bout the reconstruction of :Macquarie­ during his speech but it was rather street. The people are entitled to know difficult. 'Since then I have tried and the sooner the Government is able to check up his statements with the to make up its mind about the matter actual position but have not been able the better it will be for. all concerned. to do so. Perhaps it is due to the lack Mr. SANDERS (Willoughby) [8.42]: of ability on my part, or it may be that I desire to compliment the Government the· leader of the Opposition strayed a upon the Budget which has been placed little from the correct path. The leader before hon. members, and I think I have of the Opposition made his speech and every justification· for doing so. castigated the Government very sewrely Mr. ToxoE: Of course the hon. mem­ because this year it is collecting ber would think that! £18,766,000 from taxation. The leader Mr. SANDERS: May I invite the of the Opposition drew a compari;;on hon. member to look at the last Budget with the 1929 period, which he said ~as Papers that were brought down by the the previous peak period, and used the Government to which he belonged. If Auditor-General's report, because that he is proud of them, let him come and was the last year prior to this in which see me later. I am positive that if a there had been a surplus. Labour Government had been in power Mr. TuLLY: Mr. Stevens said it was to-dav and cou!d have produced such the last ;year in which there was a a statement of receipts and expenditure surplus! :us is presented in the voluminous docu­ Mr. SANDERS: There was a S\uplus ment which is now before hon. members, then, and the leade1: of the Opposition there would have been keen competition gave the figures as being £11,841,000, en the part of hon. members opposite which was the total amount that was to get up and extol the Government paid into consolidated revenue. So that that could bring down such a Budget. between 1929 and 1938 there is a dif­ Mr. ToNGE: The hon. member should ference of about £7,000,000. remember that there has been a general The leader of the Opposition said that recoverv in other places besides New in this year of good times the Govern­ :South Wales! ment has received £7,000,000 more than llfr. SANDERS: There has been a it did in the year 1929. Comparing this recovery in all parts of the world, but year's figures with the figures for 1929 thank goodness not many Labour Gov­ I do not think there is any justification ernments are in power. for the criticism of the leader of the Mr. ToNGE: Labour is m power in Opposition. The 1929 figures showed a New Zealand! revenue of £11,000,000 as against the J\fr. SANDERS: Certainly, they have present-day revenue of £18,000,000. This not had a bad time in· New Zealand. is accounted for quite simply because The Labour pai·ty has not had time to in the 1929 figures there was no wages kill the goose that lays the golden egg. and special income tax receipts, which, To-dav strikes are going on there just in this year's figures, amount to as m~~h as they were two and a hal£ £7,000,000. There 1s the explanation years ago when I was in New Zealand of the difference. The Budget. [D NoY., 1938.] The Budget. 2561

Mr. TcLLY: The hon. member com­ :Mr. ToxoE: Does nL•t the hou. mem· mented on the fact that the Government ber think that the whole of the wages has £7,000,000 extra revenue to p!ny and special income tax revenue should with! he used exclusively for providing employ­ :Mr. SANDEHS: Quite right, and the menU Government has spent £7.000,000 extra. :Mr. SANDEHS: I might say "yes"; This is where the difference of £7,000,000 but how is the money to be spent? It has been spent: Food relief, on present is all wry \'lell to say that every man figures, £1,360,000; unemplo:ynwnt reliei, who is out of work should he given a £3,698,000; family endowment £1370- job. How is the work to be provided? OO?; deserted wives widO\vs' 'pen~ion~, l\Ir. TuLLY: It should be provided. ~h1ld welfare, and hospital subsidies, Do not be ridiculous! £977,000. In 192\J, subsidies to hospitals :amounted to £537,000. J\Ir. SANDERS: It is not so easy to Another thing we are apt to forget start works as hon. members of the Oppo­ sition may think. It is all very well for is the po;;ition in 1929 with reo·ard to interest payments. To-day we have to the hon. member for Goulburn to say that in his electorate there is a :fine job pay 25 per cent. or more upon exchange. The extra money paid out on that item waiting to be done which would absorb 1,000 men. Similarly the hon. member in the period 1938-i19 amounts to for Canterbury might say that work a1i £1,620,000. In the 1929 Budget none of that cost had to be borne. Surely Shea's Creek would absorb a lar"'e num­ there is an explanation. An addi­ ber of unemployed. I might sa; that if work were con1menced on the construc­ tional £7,000,000 has been collected tion of a canal from Botany to Black· from the people. Does the leadsr of the Opposition believe that the money wattle Bay many men could be given employment. The fact is, it is not easy should not be paid as it has been. I to place men in suitable work. First of am sure he does not. It is necessarv all, supervision is necessary and material that the money should be collected and has to be provided. It is also necessary paid. The leader of the Opposition rdso to ensure that the money spent is not drew attention to the sum colkctnd from wasted on unnecessary or unsuitable ordinary income tax which in 1938 work. The policy of the Government, amounted to £6,367,000. F~r the cur~ subject to a little improvement, is good. rent year the amount is £6,9fl0,000. or a •The Government is having good work difference of about £500,000. Money done by good workmen, and the present collected from special income tax arrangement is a satisfactory one. I amounts to £3,529,000. The special in­ should not like to see hordes of men come tax, together with wages tax, standing about on a job waiting for amounting to an addition £3 500 000 work and unable to get it because there totals approximately £7,000,000. 'Th~ was no room for them all. The Gov­ special income tax is not collected from ernment is doing a good job and is giY­ those whom the leader of the Opposition ing satisfaction to thousands of men chooses to term "the workers." The who for years were unable to obtain special income tax is paid by property employment. Frankly, I should like to owners, salary earners, and, incidentally, see more men given work. by members of Parliament. We pav the special income tax which is diff~rent :Mr. ELLIOTT: Would the hon. member from wages tax. The workers will be like to see an increase in the amount paid £3,500,000. That money is to pro­ provided for child welfare? vide work or sustenance, and the state­ :M:r. SANDERS: Since 1929 an in­ ment of the leader of the Opposition that creased amount has been provided. That £7,000,000 has been taken from the has been possible because more revenue pockets of the workers is not correct. has been collected. In 1929 the Govern­ One-half the amount was obtained from ment collected £11,841,000, and this year the pockets of others. it has budgeted for £18,776,000, or, 7z 2562 The Budget. lASSElo.IBLY.] The Budget.

roughly, £7,000,000 more. That money Mr. ·BADDELEY: Read the Auditor­ has been collected fr')m special income General's latest report and see how he tax and wages tax, and is being honestly criticises the Government's expenditure! spent. Does any hon. member on the The Auditor-General referred to mis­ Opposition benches suggest that the appropriation of funds! money has not been spent wisely and Mr. SANDERS: It will be a sorry day well? for Parliament and the country if ever the Mr. TULLY: Certainly. we do! time comes when the figures in the Bud­ get papers cannot be taken as correct. :Mr. SANDERS: Surely the hon. If that ever happens, the public of New member would not suggest that the South Wales should take the matter into money has been spent dishonestly. I their own hands and have it remedied say it is being spent honestly and well, at once. I suggest that the leader of and in saying that I desire to also say the Opposition has not quoted the posi­ that I am not a subservient follower tion correctly. Possibly the Auditor­ of the Government. General will make a suitable reply at a 111:r. 13.\DDELEY: Read the Auditor­ later date. General's comments on the Government's As a member of the select committee expenditure! inquiring into the working conditions Mr. SANDERS: The statements or of employees of the Board of Fire Com­ the leader of the Opposition on the finan­ missioners, no doubt in common with cial position are not correct. He did other hon. members I have received a not give us the correct figures. I have communication from representatives of inquired into quite a number of state­ the employees of the pilot steamer at ments made by the leader of the Oppo­ \Vatson's Bay. These men have set out sition, and hardly in one case are his a case for the consideration of members figures correct. He said it was esti­ ofParliament, particularly as to the hours mated that the revenue from special that they work. If they state the facts, income taxation this year would be the position is a down-right disgrace, and £200,000 less than for the proceeding as there are two Ministers in the Cham­ ;year. I have looked that up in the offi­ ber, I shall mention the details and ask cial papers and find that from special that they be investigated. The men state income tax £3,529,000 was collected this that employees on the pilot steamer year, and that in 1938 £3,559,000 was col-· Captain Coole work 168 hours each fort­ lected. So that instead of £200,000 the night, ninety-six hours in one week and correct figure is £30,000. In quoting seventy-two hours in the next. Thev ven­ figures the leader of the OppositioE ture the opinion that as they m~e but d10uld be careful to see that they are few in number, they are as "the voice correct. I was pleased to listen to l1is of one cr~ring in the wilderness." I speech but am sorrv he made several say they are not, that, no matter how mis-statements. His figures, as recorded few in number aggrieved persons may in Hansard, are not in agreement with be, it is the duty of members of Parlia­ the figures as printed in the Budget ment to see that any injustice under papers. Of course, the figures that he ·which they suffer is removed. },fy infor­ quoted may have been prepared for him mant states that on 5th October, men on by some official, but the hon. member the Captain Coole worked from 5 a.m. before he quotes them, should be sur~ to 10.15 p.m., and on 6th October, they they are correct. worked from 2 a.m. till 10.45 p.m. This is a Government instrumentalitv and I 111:r. HoRSI:-

any of it should be paid into consoli­ from Tallong out towards the Shoal­ dated revenue. When this taxation was haven River. Not :fifty people will use :first imposed it was called the unem­ it in a year, yet it cost £9,000 or £10,000. ployment relief tax. It was introduced JI.Ir. n{O::.IAS: Is there any scenery by lvrr. Stevens, as Treasurer in the there? Bavin Government, and it ~was laid down by statute that the whole of the ~fr. TULLY: There is good scenery, money should be spent on unemploy­ but few people went to the district te­ ment and social relief. That continued fore, and few will go there now. during the regime of the Labour Gov­ I come now to tb.e Budget and the ernment, but six months afterwards, Estimates for this financial year, and in 1vhen this Government came into power, dealing with them, it is necessary to re­ the Act i\·as amended to allow part of view the last :financial year, and to refer the money to be paid into consolidated to the Auditor-General's comments revenue. That is the history of the which, in many respects, rebtlli::: the unemployment relief tax, which is now Government, although not to the mme lmo11n as the special income and wages extent as in recent years. During 193"7- tax. The hon. member for Willoughby 38 the Government received many wind­ was asked whether the time had not falls, including £442,230 from the dosing ~arrived when the whole of the money down and sale of the Monier Pipe \Yorks, s.hould to spent on the relief of unem­ the State Brickworks, .and the :Metal ployment, and he replied that it would Quarries, an increase of £256,159 from -be impossible to provide sufficient works stamp and probate duties, £77,803 from throughout the State to absorb the whole the transfer to revenue of the profit• ~ of the money, and that, in any case, a of the Building Construction Indus­ number of people would still refuse to trial Undertaking, and £530,000 being \YOrk. It is a pity that the hon. member a contribution to consolidated revenue does not visit some . of the industrial from the railways, and not previ.ousl;y . suburbs lib Paddington, Glebe, Alexan­ received. Notwithstanding those wind­ ~. dria, Botany, and Waterloo, where the falls,, last year's finances, when contri­ number of people on food relief averages butions to the sinking fund are taken 900, the majority of whom could, if into account, showed a deficit instead given the opportunity, be engaged on of the surplus predicted by the Premier. reproductiYe 1vork. That also applies to The Auditor-General, in his report, many country centres, where unemploy­ states:- ment is rampant. The bon. member Excluding sinking fund transaction~ the knows that the great majority of men Consolidated Revenue Fund showed a sur­ on relief work to-day are on half-time plus of receipts over payments of £178,?70. This was insufficient to meet the net smk­ employment. So-called tourist roads ing fund charge of £597,226 . and the have been constructed. One com,tructed ac~ount current of the fund, page 7, shows in my electorate cost between £8,000 a deficiency of £418,555 for the year. The Consolidated Revenue Account last showed and £9,000, and yet it will not be used a surplue in 1928-29. by fifty people throughout the :year. It has been argued by Government There are, in the vicinity, parallel shire supporters that last year there was a Toads v;hich can hardly be used becmwe surplus. Yet the Auditor-General of the dangerous state of the surface. The clearly states that no surplus has, been time has arrived when the Government shown since 1928-29. He also states should pay a proportion of the money that had the Government paid its usual collected from the special income and contribution to the sinking fund there would have been no surplus at all. It wages tax to the shires and· municipal is, therefore, evident that, had the Gov­ councils to enable them to put their ernment stood up to its obligations and roads in good condition. A tourist road met the sinking fund charge, there has recently been constructed icading would have been a defiGit for the year. The Budr;el. [9 Nov., 1938.] The Budget.

2.Ir. SAXDERs: There is nothing wrong neYer called upon to do. If we take the about that, becam.e the Governme:1t de­ case of a man with a salary of between cided not to make the contribution to £400 and £500 a year, a few years ago the sinking fund! that man if he desired to give his child­ :Mr. TGLLY: This vcr..1·'s t!l-'i:ation ren a good education, he paid for that has reached a record. 'It amounts to education and did not place the respon­ £17,891,991, and represents 64.75 per sibility on the shoulders of the State, cent. of the total receipts of the State. but he was allowed a liberal exemption The taxation receipts now exceed the in his taxation assessment. During the average collection for the ten years last few years that exemption has been prior to the depression-from 1920 to taken away and no man to-day who 1929-by over £8',000,000 per annum. spends say £100 or £2{10 a :year Uost of that £8,000,000 has been taken on education out of his £40D 01· from the pockets of the wa<>'e earner £500 a year is entitled to that the small business man and tl;e primar; exemption which up to a few years ago, producer, while the big business inter­ he was allowed. Taxation on the small ests and powerful monopolies have in­ business man has been increased on two creased their profits, and enjoy relatively occasions, and since 1936 he has bPen lower rates of taxation than before the taxed at the same rate as the largest years of depression. companies and the monopolies. That is Mr. SAKDERS: The basic wage earner an unjust and unfair policy. Some years does not pay any tax either! ago the taxation on small businesses-· 1Ir. TULLY: I ha-ve not much time I am relying on my memory-was 1s.. to waste, but the hon. member for Wil­ 3d. or 1s. 6d. in the £ and the taxation loughby knows as well as anyone else that on large companies with tens or hun-· apart altogether from any indirect taxa­ dreds of thousands of capital was within. tion that the basic wage earner has to the vicinity of 3s. or even more. But pay, and the amount of indirect taxation to-day, ·whether a company has a capital is Yery hard to assess, he has also to J)ay of onl;r £2,000 or £3,000, or whether it wages tax and he has had to pay it for is the Broken Hill Proprietary Limited a considerable time. If we take th8 or the Colonial Sugar Refining Com­ case of a wage earner or small farmer pany whose capital is some millions, who, in 1932, was in receipt of a basic they all have to pay the same rate wage of £4 2s. 6d.-I am taking th" of taxation. All have been brought case of a man with four children under down to the same level as the result of fourteen years of age-in addition tn a bill introduced a little o•er twelve the basic wage of £4 2s. 6d. he received months ago by the l\Gnister for Public 15s. a week or £39 per annum as family vYorks and Local Government. Regard­ endowment. During the last six years ing the 1vealthy section of the commun­ he has had to live on a greatly-decreased ity and the powerful companies and basic wage because he has onlv received monopolies income tax on incomes of £3 16s. or £3 18s. a week, ac~ording to £5,500 a year was reduced 10 per cent. the locality in which he lives. In addi­ Rates of taxation on Luge companies tion to that the cost of living has greatly· have been reduced twice. I say with all increased, particularly rents and food. sincerity that there are companies in In recent years he has been deprived this State that are showing a profit of largely of family endowment, although 20 per cent. on the money invested. he has had to pay to finance that family There was one mentioned in the House endowment, which he never had to do the other da:v-Taubman's. That com­ during the time the Labour Govel·nment pany paid 22 per cent. on the monev was in office. Hon. membe,.~ know th'lt invested, yet we find that during the lasvt the basic wage enrner contributes to the fortnight the price of paint luts risen by wages tax; he is forced to do that. Auto­ 5 per cent. matically he belps to finance family Dr. \Vr:Bn: Is Taubman's a proprietary endowment which prior to 1932, he was company? 2566 The Budget. [ASSEMBLY.] The Budget.

}.fr. TULLY: I do not know. I have grain, crude oil, hay, chaff and almost not gone into that question, but I do every line of primary production, More­ know that it is paying over 20 per cent. over we find that this party is standing on the capital invested. behind the Government which allowed Jl.ir. JliiAm: I do not wish to interfere workers' compensation premiums to. be with the hon. member's speech, but he .increased by over 100 per cent. In many must realise that when the dividends are cases compensation premiums in the distributed into the hands of the tax­ country have been doubled whilst em­ payer he has to pay additional taxation ployees find it harder and harder to prove according to his income. their cases, owing to the powerful influ­ Jl.ir. TUJJLY: I know that, but it does ence of the private insurance companies, not alter the position. unless they engage a barrister or a soli­ Jl.ir. JliiAIR: It runs into a very sub­ citor. During the last six ;years stantial amount. the Government has taken from }\fr. TULLY: I understand that, but the people £89,000,000 in taxation and increased the national debt, through it is unfair that a company th~t is manufacturing commodities for the pub­ loans, by over £51,000,000. Many of the public do not realise that. Origin­ lic should show a profit of over 20 per -cent.· It is altogether too great a profit. ally the special income and wages tax The time h1s come when the tariff on was spent wholly on the unemployed and those cornmodities that show these on social relief, but during recent ;years profits should be reduced. This should the greater part has been used as ordi­ particularly interest country members. nary revenue. The time has arrived \Vhether a man owns his home or rents when the whole of that tax, which this a property he has to carry a heavy bur­ vear is estimated to return £6,800,000, den by reason of the rise in prices. ~hould be devoted entirely to unemploy­ ment relief and social services. Jl.ir. 1fAm: Does the hon. member sug­ If there were less tax dodging a great gest that to meet that position the pro­ section of the public would not be called ·tective tariff should be reduced? upon to pay the present high rate of !fr. TULLY: If they are making an tax. I am not here solely to criticiE,e, unreasonable profit I would say, yes. but to make suggestions to the Govern­ Jl.ir. SINCLAIR: Can we differentiate ment. Several years ago eight addi­ between companies according to their tional inspectors were appointed by the refficiency? Taxation Department to · investigate Jl.ir. TGLLY: I suppose we can alleged cases of tax evasion. They suc­ generally speuking in the case of com­ ceeded in collecting at least £5,000,000 panies showing over 20 per cent. pro­ from those who had not previously paid. fit. They are getting an altogether un­ The Government should, therefore, fair advantage and the tariff should be appoint additional inspectors to investi­ revised. gate the operations of companieE,, par­ 1fr. ELLIOTT: And let the foreign ticularly those making large profits, as ;.'

had, in the Department of Public way, £2'23,000; rolling stock, £89,000; Works, a capable engineer, ]'}1:r. Carter, rolling stock maintenance and renewal, who made exhaustive investigations in~ £176,000; coaching stock, £80,000; and to the possibilities of electricity supply goods stock, £61,000. AE, all these re­ from the Shoalhaven and Snowy rivers. ductions will very largely affect the He was a most promising public servant, country districts, it is remarkable that but, as he was not paid an adc::;ctate they should be sanctioned by a Country salary, he left the Government ser­ Party :Minister. · vice and obtained vmrk in a private capa­ Coming to the Department of Agri­ city in which he earned four times his culture, I find that £850 was set aside previous salar,y. If there were men of last year to meet expenses in· connec­ that type in the public service a few tion with sheep blowfly experiments, but ~·ears ago there must be others to­ this year the amount has been reduced day. There is no need for the Govern­ to £400. Hon. members on the Govern­ ment to spend large sums of money ment side will concur that there has to obtain advice from overseas experts been a great increase in the blowfly when there are practical men in the menace in the districts that have had 1mblic service. A sum of £5,080 has good rainfall, and where the growth has been paid to the same firm of engineers come on quickly. Blowflies are now a to investigate and report on defects in gl·cater pcE,t than they have been fol' the construction of Burrinjuck Dam. I a long time. It is bad practice for the understand they recommended that a ]finister for Agriculture who is a mem­ considerable quantity of water should be ber of the Country party, to sanction a run off and, as a rcs,ult, people on the reduction in this expenditure. The allo­ irrigation areas are now suffering a cation should be increased, because there "lvater shortage and the electricity supply is scope for extending the investigations is endangered. in regard to this menace. I refer the The Hoyal Commission on starting­ Government to an article in the Sydney price bctti11g has cost more than lif orning H emlcl this morning, which £20,000, and it has not yet concluded its emphasises the difficulty landowners are. work. The Labour party advocated a experiencing because of the increase in select committee, which would .have cost the blowfly pest. The article emphasises less than £1,000, and would have done the fact that experiments should be the job just as capably as a Roy;al increased rather than restricted during Uommis~,ion, but unfortunately the the present year. Government would not entertain that Jlifr. SIX CLAm: Experiments arc always 11roposal. taking place under the control of the The estimated amount to be spent on Council for Scientific and Industrial railway rolling stock shows a decrease of Hesearch! £618,981, as compared with 1935-36. ]'}ir. TULLY: A certain sum was allo­ That is a retrograde step. \Vhilc cated in the Estimates last year, but only £64,718' is to be spent on the Suthcrland­ half that amount is being made available Cronu11a railway, which was not in­ this year. The amount should have been <}Uired into by the Public Works Com­ increased. I stress the necessity of mak­ mittee, and on which the anticipated ing more money available for investiga­ annual loss is £22,000 without taking tions and experiments in connection into account the cost of resump­ "lvith stoc;k diseases and the course in tions, only £59,489 is to be spent veterinary science and scientific agri­ on the Bungcndore-Captain's Flat rail­ culture. It is absolutely necessary way, which will be a reproductive that students should serve at least work. Unwarranted economy i3 be­ ·twelve months on mixed properties in ing shown in the Railway Depart­ Yarious parts of the State. The course ment. The estimated reductions m in vderinary science and scientific agri­ lleccssary expenditure this year arc: eultme covers a period of about }\faintcnancc and renewal of permanent four years at the 'Gniversity of Sydney. 2568 . The Budget. [ASSEMBLY.] The Budget.

It is largely theoretical, but the students Extraordinarily lax administration has. get a certain amount of practical ex­ taken place in connection with the pre­ perience. vVhen these young men have paration of plans and specifications for completed their course they should not additions to various country hospitals. receive a certificate until they have These delays are a disgrace to the admin­ completed a twelve months course of istration. The only comment which the practical work in various parts of the :Minister for Health makes is that there State; a few months in the north, a few are insufficient architects and draftsmen months in the west, a few months in to carry out the work. When I asked the southern district to obtain a sound the Minister for Health a question to­ knowledge and practical experience, par­ day he informed me that the Depart­ ticularly of the small landowner on a ment of Health did not employ home maintenance area. They will thus draftsmen. I know that. The work be able to advise landowners from a scien­ is carried out by the Department of tific as well as a practical standpoint. Public Works, but the delays have been To-day the advisers ·On stock diseas2s unfair and unreasonable. The commit­ are allotted to areas that are too exten­ tee of the Goulburn District Hospital, sive to supervise. At Goulburn the area which gives its time voluntarily, at per­ supervised by Mr. Black has been in­ sonal inconvenience, is disheartened at creased by 50 per cent. It is impos­ the delay which has arisen in connec­ sible for a man to give satisfaction to tion with the completion of necessary the landowners throughout the district work at that hospital. The Government when such an enormous area hl!s to be has wasted a great deal of capital in covered. other respects, but it would not be a During recent years the Common­ waste of money if it advertised for prac­ wealth Government has manufactured tical men and employed them in the serum for the inoculation of sheep Department of Public vVorks, so that im­ suffering from black diseases. The portant works might be put in hand. experiments carried out haYe con­ There is no more necessary work than siderably reduced the cost to the thf!t which affects the health of the com­ primary producer and probably a bet­ munity. Although our country hospitals ter type of serum is being- manu­ fire overcrowded, they have to wait years: factured. The Government should also for additional accommodation to be pro­ Yided. exercise strict supervision over drenche~ for stock. Before they :ne 1:lac"'rl Dr. \.Vmm: The contracts frequently in the market they sbould he go to another State! examined by the Stock Brnnt'h of th

Temam. I can quote two specific in­ possession of certain settlement pur­ stances just outside North Goulburn. chases. Under the Act they are en­ The Hume Highway which leads fTom titled to be mortgagees in pos:::ession for Sydney· to Canberra is very much two years after which they may obtain patronised, and at the- six-hour an extension at the discretion of the day week-end, five or six peo­ Minister. When they have been mort­ ple were admitted to Goulburn gagees in possession for :more than two Hospital because of accidents which oc­ years of settlement purchases, which curred at these bridges. The local carry restrictive titles, the Minister authorities have approached the Depart­ should take steps to see that the settle­ ment of Main Roads and Transport and ment purchases are either sold at pub­ the Railway Commissioner, they have lic auction or put up for tender so as also written to the Minister, but there is to make them available to capable set­ no co-ordination between the two depart­ tlers. If he investigates the position he ments. I hope the Government will take will find that a very large number of the responsibility of straightening out these settlement purchases are held by those points on the highway or erect new financial institutions that have been bridges over the railway line. As such mortgagees in possession for as long as large numbers of tourists are using this six years. Their hands should be forced important roadway when travelling to by the department; in some cases they Canberra, the Minister for Transport are leasing the land to men who hold should summon representatives of both considerably more than a home mainten­ departments and instruct them to carry ance are~. That constitutes a breach out these urgent works without delay and of the intentions of closer settlement. apportion the expense between both de­ and of restrictive titles. It is unfair partments. The local public and the' to have these mortgagees in poi3session municipality are disheartened because who aTe, in many cases, administeTing they have continually brought this mat­ various estates which should belong to ter under the notice of the Department the Lands Department. of Jl.fain Roads and the Railway Depart­ When twitted in regard to its laxity ment, but are unable to obtain any satis­ in resuming estates or making land avail­ faction. able for settlement, the Premier has Mr. U..1rn: To what two bTidges does always said that the Government is con­ the hon. member refer? cerned more with rehabilitating the man Mr. TULLY: I refer to two bridges now on the land than with making land on the Hume Rig·hway near North Gaul­ available for new settlement. While the burn. One passes over the Great Southern Labour party accepted that statement, railway, the other over the Crookwell to-day we find that many groups of line. Accidents occurred on these settlers are still complaining that the bridges on the last public holiday. Government has not done the fair thing During the last six years not more than by them. In the Sydney liforr1ing fifty settlers have been placed on closer Herald of 7th November last there settlement areas. Although the Govern­ appeared an account of a meeting held ment has purchased a few estates, gene­ at Ungarie. It states: rally from persons desi.rous of selling, it Delegates from Monia Gap, Melbergeb, should seriously consider, even if it has Gubbfltta, Weethalle, Mud Hut, The Peak, to pay a higher price, the advisabilty of Erigolia, and Rankin STJrings, attended a securing land in well-tried and safe areas. meeting of farmers at Rankin Springs, at wltieh the Go>ernment was condemned for We cannot risk establishing settlers in haYing allegedly failed to honour its pro­ doubtful areas. The Government has mises for the rehabilitation of the south­ every opportunity even before pur­ west. chasing estates, of obtaining land if Speakers said that the PremieT in Vic­ it oares force the hand of cer­ toria, Mr. Dunstan, hac1 toured the distressed to rural areas in Victoria. but the New South tain persons. Jl.fany banks and fin­ Wales Government appeared indifferent to ancial institutions are mortgagees in the difficulties and hardships of the settlers. 2570 The Budget. ! ASSEMBLY.] The Budget.

'fhe c?airman, Mr. Raggart, of Monia given an opportunity to pay a reasonable Gap, sa1d that there would be no real rental and that they should not be de­ prosperity in the country until the farmers were established on a sound footing. prived of any increase in the basic wage ,by.. ever-increasing rises in the ·cost of These are men whose position, the Gov­ nvmg. ernment declared, it would rehabilitate and improve. The Government havinO' Mr . .J. T. REID (Casino) [10.0]: The ?een in power for six and a half year;, Budget, which was delivered to the 1t should now not be in a position of House a few weeks ago, has certainly having to accept criticism from settlers. shown the returning confidence of the For this state of affairs I do not blame people of the State and of all its citi­ the present Minister for Lands because zens in the administration of the he has held office for a comparatively Ste>ens-Bruxner Government. \Ve can­ short time. riot have a return to financial prosperity until the people have engendered in l\1r. SrxcLAIR: Both the Treasurer and them confidence in the Government and I have toured that area! in the admini£,tration of those who are Mr. TULLY: Apparently the settlers in charge of public affairs. The Budget are not satisfied. The Government will that was presented by the Colonial Trea­ be obliged not only to rehabilitate the surer a few weeks ago reflected that position of some settlers, but also guar­ confidence -rery materially. antee prices to primary producers gener­ ally throughout the State. There are one or two matters upon which I desire to address the House I hoped to deal with the subject of the b~ie:fly, one of which concerns the ques­ Homebush abattoir, in regard to which tion of education. Education is the a notice of motion standing in my name basis of all our progress and unless we has appeared on the business paper for a take effective steps to implement our considerable time, but up to date I have :clucation policy, and to bring it with­ not had an opportunity to move it. I m the reach of all, we cannot do the have almost exhausted my time but, fair thing by the whole of our people. before concluding, I desire to point The Department of Education, during out that the Government should the last few years, has made wonde.rful investigate housing, rents and the progress, not only in methods of educa­ ccst of food, because the ever-increasin"' • • 1 .::::1 tion, but in its expenditure upon the r1se m t11e cost of living is a buildings in which our children are problem that must be tackled. I· agree being educated, but there are at present with the hon. member for King that· a number of school buildinO's particu­ the best housing policy in operation in larly in the country, that ar; i~ need of the State was that administered bv the renovation and additiom. This refers homes department of the Rural Bank. more particularly to our intermediate Unfortunately, its activities have been and higher-grade schools, into which largely restricted during the last eigh­ children are being concentrated from teen months. It is an extraordinarv thing that, taking only one line of nece~­ outside centres. While the Govern­ sary commodities, the price of flour ment has done everything pos-sible, hav­ should be £7 15s. a ton while the price ing in view the fact that its finances Df bread is 6d. a loaf in the suburbs m1d were limited during the earlier years of in most parts of the country. The Gov­ its udministration, the problem, as it ernment must give serious consideration stands to-day, can, in my opinion, only to that problem. The constitution of the be met by the raising of a special loan, United Australia party lays down the from the proceeds of which we can over­ principle of a Fair Rents Court. In come the shortages in building. K o tackling the problem of ever-increasing­ rents, the Government should see that Eingle 1\finister is to blame for this. people who cannot afford a deposit on The position has been allowed to drift the purchase of a property should be for the last thirty years, and it is only The Budget. [9 Nov., 1938.] The Budget. 2571 since the present Government took libraries. In a few of our schools libra­ office that the need for making up the ries have already been established, and leeway has become so apparent. the children have taken full advantage of them. Last year the Department of I have stated, not only in this Education paid small subsidies towards the maintenance of these libraries. New House, but outside, that I consider our South Wales is still a long way behind technical education should be given other countries in the provision of greater prominence. In addition to school libraries, but it is good to know using the funds of the State Govern­ that the department is alive to the sub­ ments we should receive assistance from ject, and that it is doing something in the Commonwealth Government in this that respect. regard. Ministers for Education in the For a long time. I have been of the variouE, States have met in conference opinion that our forest areas should be from time to time and discussed this divided into compartmenth, and that each compartment, with Government as­ subject, but so far they have not had sistance, should be responsible for re­ any success in obtaining a grant from afforestation in its own area. Such a the Commonwealth Government. In scheme has worked well in other coun­ times of emergency it is the highly­ tries, and I do not see why it should trained technical man who will be called not work well in New South Wales. upon in the first instance by the Federal Teamsters and millers who cut timber G'overnment to render assistance, there­ from forest areas should get assistance fore, it is only fair that the Common­ from the Government to rc-afforest the wealth Government should contribute cut-out areas, and they should be com­ pelled to undertake that work. The something towards the coE•t of his edu­ noxious weeds legislation should be ap­ cation and training. Anything that plied to all our forest areas including this House can do towards bringing the Crown Janel. In the coastal and semi­ matter forcibly under the notice of the tropical parts of the State noxious weeds Commonwealth Government will be a grow rather prolifically, and under the step in the right direction. There is law the landholder is compelled to keep great need for making up the leeway his land clear of such weeds. Many hold. in technical education, -and to bring it ings adjoin Crown lands on which in the into line with technical education as it coastal districts there is a considerable is imparted in other countries. There grmvth of lantana and other noxious were other avenues into which our edu­ plants, and as tbe landholder is com­ cational facilities were directed dur­ pelled to keep his property free of noxi­ ing the last thirty-five or forty ous weeds so should the Government keep years, but we have now come to the Crown lands free of such weeds, for time ·when there is great need for an some distance at least, inside its own acceleration in the pace of _technical boundary. I believe the :Minister for education, not only in this State, but Forests is alive to the position, and am throughout the Commonwealth, and the sure he will sec that something in that Commonwealth Government should respect is done. render assistance along tho<·e lines. That brings me to the matter of closer On the Estimates three sums tota11ing settlement, which has been given a ·good £90,000 are provided for the Department deal of prominence during the Budget of Education. Of that amount, I am debate. I am aware that, in this and pleased to E.ce, £64,000 is to be devoted to previous sessions, the Government ha11 technical education, while £3-2,000 is to made provision for the acquisition of be spent for the provision of school a r.umber 0£ la~ge estates for closer 2572 The BL1clget. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions and Answers.

settlement purposes and that each pro­ posal has been closely scrutinised and freely debated. The confidence engen­ Thursday, 10 November, 1938. dered in the community by this Government's handling of the public Questions without Notice--Special Adjournment--The :finances and its liberal treatment of all Budget (Sixth Day's Debate). sections of the community has led to a good deal of private subdivision of land, of which many know little. That l\fr. SPEAKER took the chair. is equally as much closer settlement as is the acquisition of large estates by the The opening Prayer was read. Government and it is going on con­ stantly and will increase as the prices of our primary products become stabi­ QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE. lised. Unfortunately, there has been a CHILDREN'S SHELTER: SURRY reduction in the price of some of our HILLS. principal primary products and this will Mr. SHANNON: Has the attention be reflected in the prosperity of certain of the Minister for Education been secondary industries, as well as in the directed to adverse criticism during the national income and the spending pow(;r last few days of the children's shelter of the community. The matter of Gov­ at Surry Hills, especially with respect ernment assistance through the rural to the playing area and dormitory ac­ bank to owners of small holdings who commodation? Can he say what atti­ desire to subdivide has been discussed tude his department intends to take with on several occasions. While I <;!Onsider regard to providing a suitable playing that the funds of the rural bank should area and dormitory accommodation at be devoted as much as possible to the that shelter? acquisition of the maximum number of Mr. DRUMMOKD: Conditions at the large estates it should be practicable to children's shelter mentioned by the hon. devise a means of assisting small lan<'l­ member are no better nor worse than owners who \Yish to subdivide their hold­ they have been for many years under ings. That is a problem for solution many Governments. The question of hv the Treasurer in collaboration with providing additional accommodation has the Lands Department. been under consideration in connection \Vhen members of the Opposition and with the construction of the new courts, others S'1eak of subdividing propertir:R and in the meantime the position is be­ in the \Vestern Division it is obvio'm ing explored with a view to seeing that they do not understand the problem whetl:er ·any alternative can be found as it presents itself to those who knov-' to that of associating the children's other areas. In the Western Division shelter with the courts. it takes 15 to 20 acres to carry one sheep whereas in areas of which I know a per­ CO"GNTRY RAILWAY SIDINGS: son can make a reasonable living off WEIGHBRIDGES. from 200 to 500 acres. Mr. LEE: On behalf of the hon. mem­ :Mr. TuLLY: There are parts of th