Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn

All Sunday-Resurrectionists Refuted

Wednesday and Friday Crossites Thrashed Shredded and Trashed Part Eight Simulacra Reg, Alex, Rubies etc.

27 01 15 2

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn All Sunday-Resurrectionists Refuted Wednesday and Friday Crossites Thrashed Shredded and Trashed Part Eight 27 01 15 [email protected] http://www.biblestudents.co.za http://thelordsday.wordpress.com/books/

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p180 5 First Night p181 17 Suffering Pascha p182 28 Last Supper Old and Leaven of Life p183 31 First day unleavened bread p184 48 Matthew 28:1 Scholars John 19:39 “First Night” p185 52 John 19:42 Joseph Work on sabbaths p186 66 ‘first sabbath’, ‘weeks’ p187 88 Prepare Preparation p188 96 Two days Six days Mark 14:1 Matthew 26:2 “The First Night” “High day” p189 110 Bone Day “came to him” Deut. 31 “day before IN” “Shabbath Shabbathon” p190 122 Meatless Meal Burial Day Grave John 20:1 p191 137 Bone-Day First Night John 19:39 Prepare passover p192 148 First Sheaf Fiftieth day on Sunday Crucifixion in John 19:31 p193 After Sabbath dawn on First Day Idiom Luke 24 p194 172 Mark 16:9 Matthew 28:1 First sightings Visits at tomb Same event All gospels p195 192 On fourteenth // on fifteenth Daniel 9 p196 200 Seventieth week p197 204 Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith Late on

Addendum 208 Religious Forums The Lost Passover

Conclusion 250

. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p180 Reg: The last supper was not a passover meal it was the night before passover Christ has to die before the passover the disciples won’t have the passover the next night on the 15th when Christ gave up his life after sunset He had to fulfil Ex 12 He would not give up His life until then He had that power I have several times explained the last supper but never comment the old covenant was to pass away the next day when Christ died and at the last he introduced the new covenant it was not a passover supper the bread represented His broken body for us the wine that night would never be unfermented represented his sinlessness and the washing of the feet represented humility which SDA,s still keep that we are all equals an represented his sinlessness and the washing of the feet represented humility which SDA,s still keep that we are all equals and should treat each other the same Read John 13 and 1 Cor 11:23-34 Christ spent that supper telling them that he was not going to be with them and how to remember Him till He comes again

Alex: Agreed but would be better said as “the Last Supper was not a Passover meal - it was the night before Feast of the Passover/ULB 24 hours before - Christ had to die in the afternoon on 14 Nisan before the Feast of Passover. The disciples, though disheartened with the death of their Messiah probably had the Passover the next night on the 15th - hours after Christ gave up his life before sunset - on the 14 Nisan.

Alright with a few questions for you, Alex, Don’t you mean, later, instead of before? Naturally the disciples were . One must take into account the disciples’ utter confusion and the chaos caused by the natural disasters of the “darkness”[1], “earthquake”[2], “rent veil”[2], “opened graves”[3], and fallen-in door-lintel of the portal into the sanctuary[4]. So the disciples could impossible have had their the day before. So the disciples rather even before Jesus had died, would have gone into hiding in the very room where two days after “when being evening regarding the First Day of the week, thronged- in-together-still behind closed doors for fear of the Jews”[10], Jesus found his disciples confused and in consternation, . Therefore instead of Jesus’ disciples should have buried Him, God designed Joseph and Nicodemus would come forward and without the help of his disciples and in their absence, would bury Him in faith and obedience to God’s Laws of the Passover of Yahweh.[11] [1] Mark 15:33 Matthew 27:45 Luke 23:44 [2] Matthew 27:51 [3] Matthew 27:52 [4] … [5] John 19:39 [6] Leviticus 23:6 [7] Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 [8] Mark 15:33,34 Matthew 27:45,46 Luke 23:44 [9] John 11:9 [10] John 20:19 7

[11] John 19:40 Exodus 12:10 Genesis 50:26 et al It was ONLY Joseph—who is the only one MENTIONED—, who dared to ask Pilate for Jesus’ body. And it was ONLY Nicodemus—who is the only one MENTIONED, who later on in “the first night” of ULB, “also came to him (Joseph) there”, where the two of them “treated the body of Jesus” and “prepared” it for the grave. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p197 Not one of the twelve disciples came to or were present “where” Pilate had the body “delivered” to, and Joseph “then treated” it. Joseph and Nicodemus undertook alone; they were only the two of them—these two members of the Sanhedrin. Of all Jesus’ followers they were the only who were members of the Sanhedrin; perhaps that was why John could record, “There came also Nicodemus to him (Joseph) who having met at the first night (of ulb)”–‘ehlthen de kai Nikodehmos ho elthohn pros auton nuktos to prohton’. Under normal circumstances as members of the Sanhedrin, Joseph and Nicodemus most likely would have met for their passover meal-together, and there and then must between the two of them have decided to ask Pilate for Jesus’ body as well as for permission to bury him according to the Jews’ Ethics to Bury their Passover. In fact, that is what the Text states, “There came also Nicodemus to him (Joseph) who HAVING MET AT THE FIRST NIGHT (of ULB)”–‘ehlthen de kai Nikodehmos ho ELTHOHN pros auton NUKTOS TO PROHTON’. And that may explain the relevance of the Preposition ‘pros’ and its syntactical accompanying Accusative in both the Pronoun ‘auton’ and the nomenclature ‘nuktos to prohton’— “for the First Night” or “at the First Night” or “on account of” or “pertaining to” or, “for the First Night”. As follows, “Nicodemus also came there ON ACCOUNT OF Joseph and they HAVING MET AT THE FIRST NIGHT”—of unleavened bread! 8

Thank God and praise His Name for the wonderful TRUTH in His Word! Which makes me think of yet another wonderful reality that struck me the other day while I was thinking about Jesus’ Crucifixion and Burial, that it is the SCRIPTURES that demand that it should happen over “two days”— “after two days the LORD will revive us; in the third day He will raise us up”—speaking of our God just like it is written of Him in Royal Plural at the creation already! Anyway, here is what struck me about the shear stupidity of the same-day crucifixion and burial heresy for making use of Deuteronomy 21:22,23—FALSELY of course. ‘They say’, Jesus HAD to be buried (“in haste” they always have to add FALSELY) on the same day He was crucified and died, “before sunset” because Deuteronomy 21 assumedly demanded it. Now IF that were so, then what about the Jews’ concern over the Law which prohibited them to partake in the passover meal in the night after the sacrifice of the lamb if they had touched the body of a dead human? These before sunset buried daft have no answer. But if after their passover meal ---or after their would-be passover meal at this the last of all passovers a Jew might have touched a dead, then there is no fear for getting unclean after, and Joseph and Nicodemus could at their own time, peacefully and meticulously, proceed “to the Ethics of the Jews” to “handle”, “prepare” and “treat” the body of “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God” “to…” in the end, “lay Him in the tomb”— the tomb itself even, as “in the Prophets concerning the Christ how He ought to have suffered” according to God’s fore-knowledge and predestination, “prepared and ready at hand”.

Alex: Seems ok - note original wording “the Last Supper was not a Passover meal - it was the night before Feast of the Passover/ULB 24 hours”. On that we agree. Not sure why you 9 wanted to further when you know I believe the Last Supper was 24 hours before Feast of the Passover/ULB.

Reg: 1 First evening beginning at twilight sun disappearing over horizon and stars visible first evening 2 midnight halfway between sunset and sunlight first half of 24hours 3 daylight morning twilight 4 morning approximately 5 hours to midday 12 o’clock 5 midday to sunset twilight is afternoon 5 day completed at days end or 12 hours at evening Beginning of twilight second evening the 14th day AT EVEN is the 2nd evening sun has set lamb killed between the two evenings 1 Luke 23:54 in Greek interlineal reads, and it was preparation and “a” sabbath was coming on NOT THE SABBATH 2 Mat 27:62 the next day that followed the day of preparation the chief Priest and Pharisees came together unto Pilot 3 Mark 15:42 now when evening had come because it WAS the preparation the day before sabbath 4 John 19:31 say that Sabbath was a high day Sabbath the Jews called all ceremonial Sabbaths high day Sabbath, go to the Synagogue and ask the Rabi 5 John 19:14 and it was the preparation of the passover 6 John 19:42 add the Jews Passover was at hand 7 John 11:55 same as John 19:42 and the Jews passover was at hand Now look at 3 other texts on prior 1. feast days John 2:13 and the Jews passover was at hand and Jesus went to Jerusalem 2. John 7:2 now the Jews feast of Tabernacles was at hand 3. John 11:55 and the Jews Passover was nigh at hand out of all these texts Sabbath is only mentioned 3 times 10

Mark 15:42 day before the Sabbath John 19:31 it was a high day Sabbath that is Luke 23”54 in Greek interlineal it is not 7th day Sabbath but ceremonial a small a Sabbath You only have one Sabbath mentioned against all of the other evidence John 12:1, 9th Nisan from Friday to Wednesday Preparation 14th Ex 12:3 10th day lamb was chosen killed on the first day of Passover Mark 14:12 between two evenings 15th at twilight 14th day AT even Evening of Thursday Mark 14:1,2-evening 1 Thursday-Day 1 Evening of Friday-evening 2 Friday-Day 2 Evening of Sabbath-evening 3 Sabbath-Day 3 Resurrection some time on Sabbath Mat 28:1 burial time probably 2 hours after sunset at the end of the 14th at twilight 15th Luke 23:50,54 Now you show me the 7th day Sabbath in the bible that has preparation day before it the 6 times it is used are all on the passover and that is Wednesday

GE: “On the Sixth Day they shall prepare.” Exodus 16:5. “The LORD hath given you the Sabbath; therefore He giveth you on the Sixth Day the bread of two days” or “bread to prepare for two days” or “bread to prepare for the Seventh Day….which is the Sabbath in which there shall be no bread given.” Exodus 16. <…preparation day before it the 6 times it is used are all on the passover> Yes and no… In Mark 15:42 the Sixth Day “The Preparation Day WHICH is the Fore-Sabbath had BEGUN.” It was the same day which had begun in John 19:31, “And since / 11 because The Preparation Day had begun and because that (same) day was great-day-sabbath (of the passover), the Jews asked Pilate….” The SAME day began ENDING, “by the time of the Jews’ preparations (for the Sabbath)” John 19:42, “when the women (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary) mid-afternoon the Sabbath approaching went home and prepared spices and afterwards rested the (Seventh Day) Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment.” Luke 23:54-56. “Now the morning (of the Seventh Day Sabbath) which is after the Day of the Preparation (on the Sixth Day of the week) the chief priests and Pharisees gathered before Pilate….” Matthew 27:62. Mark 15:42, John 19:31, John 19:42, Luke 23:54-56 and Matthew 27:62—five times the SAME day (‘Friday), happened to be BOTH the before , and, were --the passover day “the first day (of) seven days (of) ULB”. FIVE times ‘Friday’ is “The Preparation which is the Fore- Sabbath” as well as indeed the “great-day- sabbath-of (the passover)”. IN STARKEST CONTRAST John wrote in 19:14 that “It was The Preparation-OF-PASSOVER six o’clock in the morning” when Jesus was handed over to be crucified; and “it was The Preparation-OF-PASSOVER” STILL, its “ninth hour” (“being in the daylight mid-afternoon”), when Jesus had DIED. That is another story all together than yours, Reg.

Reg: you only have One 7th day Sabbath to place it in the Passover and that’s Luke 23:56 and it is not there You wanted to know where they are called Sabbaths Luke 23:54 and in Greek Interlineal it is called a Sabbath definitely not the Sabbath Mark 15:42 is after the end of 14th day AT even and this is Thursday and Sabbath is used for Thursday John 19:31 it is 12 called a High day Sabbath which I have explained as Ceremonial Gerhard you haven’t by any chance married Rubie she was on about no text calling ceremonial days Sabbath what’s the difference in Holy Convocation and Sabbath they both had the same restrictions the day of Atonement is called Sabbath show me where it is called Sabbath show me where it is any different to the other feast day Also Rubie says preparation means Friday look it up it means Eve of a special event preparing for Christmas is called Christmas Eve you can apply it before your birthday or the day before a journey Gerhard you have been fighting Ruby to long you are starting to talk like her the Sabbath is not Jewish but the ceremonial law is every one of those text and I have added other say the Jews preparation day are all ceremonial they were the ceremonial laws given to the Jews Ex 31 the 7th day Sabbath is not Jewish but the Sabbath of the Lord thy God given thousands of years before Abraham ceremonial Holy days are Jewish Luke 23:54 in Greek interlineal reads, and it was preparation and a sabbath was coming on NOT THE SABBATH

GE: Really, Amazing! Your interlinear has an ? From which word of the Text? O from 'nothing', in the Greek I see?! I thought your was 'literal'; now I hear I was mistaken; it gives an English word for a Greek word that isn't there. Funny. O no no no no sorry --- you mean, --- now I see! --- you mean the word IS there; it's the Greek word, 'sabbatohn' which YOUR interlinear, interprets with the word 'sabbath'. Now what is easier, I mean for a layman like myself, to read and understand honest to goodness what I see in the Greek, “that day was Preparation and _Sabbath_ was coming on” --- 13

THE ‘SABBATH’?!....the very 'Sabbath' in fact a few lines further on is said to be “THE SABBATH according to the Commandment” --– “THE SABBATH according to the Commandment” in the Fourth Commandment naturally. So by the buy, dear Reg, get yourself a STRAIGHT to draw your conclusions with, not such crooked ones like your interlineal's <“a” sabbath>. It may help. Or it won't I'm persuaded rather. Or read Rubies’ genuine critique on your ---she’s done a good job there.

Reg: The last supper was …. the night before passover

GE: The Last Supper was “night”— “this night”— “I will pass through the land of Egypt” John 13:30 Exodus 12:12. It was “the Passover of the LORD” before the passover of the Jews. What is easier to understand? What, more obvious?! was AS WELL AS “on the fourteenth day KILL the passover” AS on “the FEAST” of passover “on the fifteenth day ye shall EAT ULB”. But he who doesn’t WANT to hear SHALL not hear—GOD has made him deaf.

Alex: Agreed

Reg: Resurrection some time on Sabbath Mat 28:1 burial time probably 2 hours after sunset at the end of the 14th at twilight 15th Luke 23:50,54 I believe that the greatest part of all English Bibles were the work of the Holy Spirit through the interpreters and the decisions made were God breathed, but there are some that are 14 more resent that in some places lean on tradition and not Gods word. Greek is quoted to prove the English wrong by those who disagree with what is said your rendering is only one among the many men that wrote the translations who discuss all and come to an agreement on their translations I except that the Holy Spirit inspired them on what to agree on Now I am posting the 22 bibles on Mat 28:1 now can you show me all the ones that have a Sunday resurrection Matthew 28:1 1 Standard Versions “In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher. “— 2 Authorized Version. “Late on the Sabbath day.” A.R.V., R. V. 3 Catholic Version “In the end of the Sabbath.” Douay 4 . Historic English Translations 5 Wiclif, 1880 “But in the euentide of the Saboth.” 6 Tyndale, 1534.—”The Sabboth daye at even.” 7 Granmer, 1539.—”Vpon an euening of the Sabbothes.” 8 Geneva, 1557. “About the later ende of the Sabbath day.” 9 Rheims, 1582. “And in the euening of the Sabboth.” Independent Translations 10 “Late on the Sabbath day.” American Baptist Improved, Moulton. 11 “Late on the Sabbath.” Darby. 13 “After the sabbaths.*” Fenton. 14 “In the end of the Sabbath.” Newberry 15 “Late in the week.” Rotherham 16 “On the eve of the sabbaths.” Young. 17 “At the end of the Sabbath.” Centenary New Testament. 18 “It is the evening of the sabbaths.” Concordant. 19 “Late in the Sabbath.” Von Tischendorf. 20 “After the Sabbath.” Goodspeed. 21 Twentieth Century, Weymoutn. 15

22 “Late on Sabbath.” Interlinear Greek. 23 “At the close of the Sabbath.” Moffatt. 24 “In the close of the Sabbath.” Syriac.

GE: Reg, in Matthew 28:1 where it —EXACTLY! Now Reg, you deny it, !

Reg: how mwny of the Mar 28:1 texts are on Sunday morning i am going to continue to post them untill i get answers. there is only one way this this discussion is going to be 100% Gods word deletes errors one at a time so you choose which are Sabbath resurections and which are Sunday resurrections and we can have a definite answer to the problem, then i will post problem 2 and so on untill Gods truth on the passover has been sensibly debated and tradition is replaced with truth

GE: I only hope and pray you are going to stand by what you say!

Reg: John 12:1--,6 days before the passover John arived at bethany . this is friday which makes Wednesday the day the day before Passover Mark 14:1,2 is Tuesday and states after two days is passover Thuesday which fitts in perfectaly with John 12:1 by Ex 12:6,18 the lamb was killed after the 14th day on the eve of the 15th twilight Jesus had to be still alive at sunset Wednesday so night one begins at the going down of the sun on Wednesday the begining of Thursday eve of Thursday nignt 1 Thursday day 1 Eve of Friday night 2 friday day 2 16

Eve of Sabbath night 3 Sabbath reserection day 3 it is the only way it all fits together.

GE: Reg says and not , but “mid-afternoon-– “ / “late on the fourteenth”. And what makes <… this is Friday> … ? Nothing but your word which is a lying word all the way. For example, you say . That is not what is written; it says “Jesus came in Bethany where Lazarus stayed [‘Iehsous ehlthen eis Behthanian hopou ehn Ladzaros’]… where there was a meal (for Him served). —the day when “Jesus visited Lazarus in Bethany six days before the Days-of-Passover”—was not, , because John 19:31 says “The Preparation (‘Friday’) was great day sabbath”, “the first day” (Exodus 12:15) of the “Days” of the Feast of Eating the Passover “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”. “After (Sabbath Abib 9 came) six days” before Friday Abib 15. “After” ‘Sunday’ Abib 10 came five days before Friday Abib 15. “After” ‘Monday’ Abib 11 came four days before Friday Abib 15. “After” ‘Tuesday’Abib 12 came three days before Friday Abib 15. “After” ‘Wednesd’Abib 13 came two days before Friday Abib 15. “After” ‘Thursday’Abib 14 came one day before Friday Abib 15. 17

“After” ‘Friday’ Abib 15 came no day(s) before Friday Abib 15. Or put it this way… The “Days” of the passover feast of ULB started on Abib 15 “great day sabbath … since that day was The Preparation … which is the Fore-Sabbath”—‘Friday’. Therefore One day “before” ‘Friday’ was Thursday Abib 14; Two days “before” ‘Friday’ was Wednesday Abib 13; Three days “before” ‘Friday’ was Tuesday Abib 12; Four days “before” ‘Friday’ was Monday Abib 11; Five days “before” ‘Friday’ was Sunday Abib 10; “Six days before” ‘Friday’, was Sabbath Abib 9; The day of the week which won the day of Jesus' Resurrection won the Day of God's and of God's People's Sabbath Day of Worship-Rest. Jesus' Resurrection from the dead is what makes all the difference to the day of the week He rose from the dead on. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p181 Samie: What is called the Last Supper is the eating of Passover by our Lord with His disciples, on the night He was arrested. The question of the disciples: “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?” (NKJ Matt 26:17; Mark 14:12) The statements of our Lord: NKJ Luke 22:8 And He sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat.” NKJ Matt 26:18 ... “My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.” The Passover eaten by our Lord with His disciples on the night before He was arrested is what is termed the Last Supper.

GE: USE the actual, real, and true meaning of the word 'pathein' / 'to pascha’, while you read, “Where do you want us to prepare for you to eat your SUFFERING?” “And He sent Peter and 18

John, saying, Go and prepare My Suffering for us, that we may eat. My time is at hand; I will keep My Suffering at your house with My disciples.” The “SUFFERING”, “eaten” by our Lord with His disciples the night He was arrested on, is what is termed “The SUFFERING”— “the Passover-of-Yahweh”. What we, , ‘the Last Supper’ was the first “Lord’s Supper” as Paul it; and the “bread” and “wine” that Jesus’ disciples in that night ate and drank on Jesus’ Command, were “my body” and “my blood” respectively by Jesus Himself. As impossible the disciples literally or physically ate and drank Jesus’ flesh and blood, as impossible Jesus literally or physically ate and drank of the “bread” and “wine” that night —because, “The very first day above all thou shalt REMOVE LEAVEN”—THE LEAVEN OF CHRIST JESUS’ LIFE. Jesus the Prime-Obedient to the Law, “The very first day above all” WOULD NOT EAT, “BREAD”—leavened “bread”; NOR WOULD DRINK, “WINE”— fermented “wine”. He had a “Body Prepared for (Him)” of which “the LIFE was in the blood”, which LIFE “in this that night”, “He had to SUFFER”, “TO LAY IT DOWN” and “HAD TO SUFFER” it be, “REMOVED”.

Samie: Was it full moon when Jesus ate Passover that night He was arrested? Yes, the first full moon after the spring equinox. It was the night after sunset Tuesday, March 27, 31 AD. It was Nisan, the Passover month, in the calendar of the Jews. It was then Nisan 14. Christ was crucified Wednesday, March 28. 3 days and 3 nights later, He resurrected early Saturday morning, March 31.

GE: What is called the “PASSOVER” in those Scriptures -- which 19 the Lord Jesus “with great desire desired to eat with you before I suffer”, was “TO SUFFER”—‘pathein’: “to suffer” the PASSOVER-OF-YAHWEH SUFFERING OF DEATH. Jesus WILLED to “lay down (his) LIFE”. “The zeal of [for] Thine House has EATEN ME UP … DESTROY This Temple (of Jesus’ Life)… the Temple of his body… and in three days I will raise it up.… When therefore He was risen from the DEAD his disciples remembered that He had said this, to them (the zeal of / for Thine House has EATEN ME UP).” “With great desire I desired to eat with you before I suffer”—‘pro tou me pathein’—Infinitive of Noun Force; “With great desire I desired to EAT MY SUFFERING.” The Infinitive of Noun Force is the indubitable explanation for Jesus’ immediate negation of what He had just expressed as his most fervent “desire to eat This Passover…”— “the Passover of Yahweh”, “…for I say unto you I WILL NOT BY ANY MEANS EAT IT until it be fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.” Even this declaration of Jesus, rightly may, and in fact ought, to be read as prophecy of his last PASSOVER-SUFFERING OF DYING THE DEATH OF DEATH—, “… for I say unto you I will not by any means EAT THIS PASSOVER TILL I FULFILLED EATING IT in the Kingdom of God”— “fulfilled eating it IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD”— in the Kingdom of God “THIS NIGHT”, for “in this night”, “the Kingdom of God” was where, and what, Jesus had “entered into”. He entered “into the Kingdom of My Father”, “to eat this passover”. His Suffering, was Jesus’ Bread and Cup. He ate and drank the ‘Pascha-of-His-Suffering’. He, “suffering”, ate and drank. Jesus’, was a spiritual eating; an eating and drinking of the TRUE Passover of Yahweh. The disciples’, was mere eating and drinking of bread and wine in spirit as far away absent from Jesus or the Kingdom of God’s dear Son as the local pub from heaven. Like real drunks they noisily left the room and 20 cavilled over who’s the greatest big shot and like real drunkards they fell asleep while they ought to have “suffered- with” Jesus in HIS DARKEST HOUR IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. ‘Naturally’, it was full moon when Jesus ate Passover that night He was arrested; what’s your issue?! And yes, “to its season” it was the first full moon after the spring equinox. And exactly according to the passover Law, it was “night” after sunset. But who told you it was <31 AD>— ?! No one! Not God! Nor astrometrics, sir. Nonsense! It is you, Samie, who BEFORE decided it has to be the year <31 AD> and . It is you, as were you God, declaring, LIKE it is you, as were you the Scripture, writing further, <3 days and 3 nights later, He resurrected earlySaturday morning, March 31.>

Reg: it is Zondervan’s Parallel New Testament in Greek and English that translates “a Sabbath was coming on” Do you want me to answer as you answer me, you would have no problem getting a job as a clown in the circus but as a representative of Jesus Christ that I read about His life you would never make it Christ said let others see Him in you,

GE: …and I am supposed to see Christ in Reg in this ?!

Alex: Being a mid week crucifixionist - I guess that includes me. Golly. Remember salvation is not based on crossite theory. Matthew 26:17 – “Now on the first day of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, ‘Where wilt thou that we make ready for thee to eat the passover?’” Source: [Cut] As for leaven and sin [Cut] 21

GE: Forget your or my – it is for God to decide and I'm not the least interested in yours. A --- what's that?! Ridiculous! I know I know I know Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy .... Well you made it a… your, ‘YEARS’-prophecy already. Now you want your slice of bread buttered both sides, so you converted your 70th YEARS week into a seven DAYS 70th week prophecy. How absurd do you want to further get and convert your 7 days into a of day-HOURS, and even then no true middle, but a 9 hours off-centre and false of days and hours? Trash! EXTRA-BIBLICAL trash! It has nothing, based on the passover and it has nothing based on prophecy and it has nothing based on Scripture --- nor on algebra, or, on accurate numbers, or, on logic, or, word, or, letter or anything! The Gospels in unison and in perfect agreement state nothing on that day of Jesus’ death or crucifixion or suffering whatsoever. Therefore being a is the most absurd and un-Biblical thing I have ever heard of. The Gospels state in unison and in perfect agreement that Joseph buried Jesus’ body “That Day (which) was The Preparation … which is the Fore-Sabbath”—, “after (which) Preparation Day, the (Jews) the next morning came to Pilate … and / but LATE ON THE SABBATH THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE (when) the angel of the Lord descending from heaven CAST THE STONE FROM THE GRAVE…” WHEN “CHRIST ROSE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY”. The past week I saw it happen with my own ears having learned of this --- inevitable --- evil from bad to worse. Subtitle proposed for this discussion ... ‘Out of Legalism into Idolatry’ – “You superstitiously worship 22 days, months, seasons, years, I am afraid I have bestowed my labour on you in vain.” Galatians 4:10,11. . Reg: You and Alex also Rubie cannot put the passover week together LK 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.---is the burial of Jesus V54 is THE PASSOVER SABBATH John 19:14 the women spoken of here were with Joseph helping in the burial sun had already set when Joseph went to Pilot Mat 27:57, Mark 15:42

GE: as defined and identified and stipulated and proven, “mid-afternoon ending towards the Sabbath” which began as defined and identified and stipulated and proven in John 19:31 and parallels Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57—not, in at least 30 hours before, the previous morning “6 o’clock a.m. the Preparation- OF-THE-PASSOVER”!! Now you, quote directly, ! I tell in the Name of the Christ I am supposed to see in you, to QUOTE it!

Reg: LK 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for 23 the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. Mark 15:45-47 Now you three have a large problem Sabbath had begun LK 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.---Jesus already in the grave so to you this is Sabbath Did they have Gentile shops then that were open for business on Sabbath

GE: Why would they need shops? To “prepare spices” they already HAD? is not to me, . That’s you, lying about me. according to all four Gospels, particularly John 19:31, “was great day of sabbath THAT DAY” of the passover—, “which is The Fore-Sabbath … The Preparation” the Sixth Day of the week.

Reg: MK 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.---has your answer compare with--- LK 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.---Mark 16:1 when the sabbath was passed they bought the spices now that has to be Friday because… LK 23:56 that after they had prepared them they rested another Sabbath the 7th day V56 Friday was the day in between two sabbaths when they bought and prepared the ointments Also Mary Magdalene was with them if it had been after the 7th day Sabbath you can write of John 20:1-17 24 from just before sunset Sabbath Mt 28:1 when she found the tomb empty and meeting Jesus probable an hour after sunset because Mark 16:1 she was with the women who you claim prepared them before Sabbath Friday when it was after the passover Sabbath on Friday the ointments were bought and prepared then they rested the 7th day sabbath Luke 23:56 Gerard and whoever else it may concern if you reject Christ Law the 10C because it was Him at creation and Sinai you have written your name out of the book of life Call me a liar and I will post thus says the Lord on every one of your posts to prove you don’t believe the word of God the way you treat others is more than enough to do that how they see you there is a Hymn do others see Jesus in me how they see Jesus in you Why don’t you put in a post asking others it could give you eternal life Now show me were Luke 23:54 in my Zondervan’s Greek is not right it was Thursday a Sabbath not the 7th the 7th day Sabbath

GE: it is you, Reg, who make of Zondervan’s a lying witness because it’s you, saying Zondervan’s says ! Reg is the lying, false, witness! Concocted of lies upon lies upon lies the SDA pastor Reg declares, . No word of truth! That's it. For the umpteenth time I have done with Reg. But this time it's final. I have done with Reg as I have done with all SDAs and all Wednesday and Friday crossites. I cannot think of anything, more to say about this non-issue the WC theory is.

Reg: Gerhard you say John 12:1 is not Friday 6 days before Passover V2 says they made Him a supper in between was after Sabbath, Saturday night So Friday was the 9th Sabbath 25 the 10th Sunday evening after Sabbath the 11th and all that happens that night supper Mary Anointed Jesus Judas betrayal The next day Sunday He rode triumphantly into Jerusalem =Sunday 11th Now you have Him arriving at Jerusalem that day, so do the first 3 Gospels Then everything John wrote from John 10:22 to John 12:11 is a lie there is a lie there is a problem here Mathew, Mark, and Luke have the walk from Jericho to Jerusalem in the spring arriving on Sunday the 11th but John from--- JN 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.---John 12:1 is in the winter time making His walk from Jericho 3 months earlier and John wrote his Gospel 20 years later and filled in what the first 3 gospel writers left out Sunday 11 Jesus was in the temple at sun set beginning ot Monday Mark 11:11 Monday 12 first day in temple Tuesday 13 last day in temple Tuesday 13 on the Mount of Olives Tuesday---MK 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death. MK 14:2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people. Passover on 15th Thursday Ex 12:3 the 10th choosing the lamb Sabbath V6 14th day at evening is the 15th first day of Passover---MK 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?---between the 2 evenings 1st day of 7 from 15th to 21st Evening Thursday ---evening 1=15th Thursday------day evening Friday ------evening 2=16th Friday------day 26

Evening Sabbath -----evening 3=17th Sabbath ------day 3 Reservation Mat 28:1 The first evening is the 15th---DEUT 16:3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life. DEUT 16:4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning. 5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee: 6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. EX 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. 16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. EX 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. 19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. EX 13:6 Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. 7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened 27 bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. EX 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread:(thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:) DEUT 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. The passover lamb was killed after the beginning of the 15th when the sun went down this is almost 50 years after the Exodus This is Gods word you have a choice 1 to believe God of the OT or Gerhard and Alex who claim 8 days, your decision will tell who you worship the creator or the created Christ or Alex who has 8 days Christ was crucified on the 14th but died at twilight on the 15th between the 2 evenings at the going down of the sun

Alex: Reg - the Last Supper on 14 Nisan was on Day of Preparation / Lord's Passover, 24 hours before the Feast of ULB. In support of 8 days of ULB, with the Feast occurring on the 2nd of 8 days - Luke 22:7 “Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.” The question you must ask is - is this day the 14 Nisan or 15 Nisan? Was the Passover killed on 14th or 15th Nisan? If the 14th then it correlates perfectly with Exodus 12:18 and keeps the 7 days of Feast of ULB (once the sacrifice is killed) in Deuteronomy. A reminder that “at even” is after noon on 14 Nisan for time was needed to take the dead sacrifice and roast it for it to be eaten that evening on 15 Nisan at the Feast of ULB. The bread at the Last Supper would have been ULB for Christ 28 was without sin. 1 John 3:5 “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.” Can we please dispense with the unnecessary comments - “...to believe God of the OT or Gerhard and Alex who claim 8 days, your decision will tell who you worship the creator or the created Christ or Alex who has 8 days”. This type of wording is false as it reciprocally in your mind establishes that those who believe a strict 7 day ULB are of the devil and only you are of God. It therefore becomes an egotistical statement - something which I try to refrain from making to others. It certainly does not advance your argument in a sincere way. Fact is 14th “at even” to 21st “at even” is 8 days not 7. I want no one to worship me and certainly not on account of Scriptural interpretation on which many topics, including this one, sadly, are varied. Even if I and others are wrong on this particular interpretation, despite Luke 22:7 and other, including Gospel, verses not mentioned, salvation is by grace not by “theological discussions” or crossites theory. I like nutting things out but my local Pastor reminded me of the simplicity of salvation. Nevertheless you still have verses like Luke 22:7 to contend with. Christ was not alive in body at start 15 Nisan - that day being the first of three. Your statement of “The passover lamb was killed after the beginning of the 15th when the sun went down” cannot be true. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p182 Reg: these 3 texts have the cart before the horse Mat 26:20, precede Mat 26:17 the last supper Mark 14:17:18 precedes 14:12 the last supper Luke 22:14 precedes 22:7 last supper Last supper was on the beginning of 14th Wednesday preparation of passover The first day of ULB and passover is the 15th Mark 14:12 are all the 7 days of passover being killed on 14th day at even and not 29 the 14th day there IS NOT ONE TEXT with 8 days use Gods word for the passover Your word is worth nothing

GE: Smart Reg! The Last Supper was on the beginning of the 14thWednesday night Mark 14:17 Matthew 26:20 Luke 22:14 John 13:30 1Corinthians 11:23—, the beginning of the 14th “The Preparation of Passover” John 19:14, “the first day without leaven [‘adzumos’] when they always had to kill the passover” Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 John 13:1. >— exactly, Reg indeed, exactly as you said!

Alex: The Last Supper on 14 Nisan was on Day of Preparation / Lord's Passover, 24 hours before the Feast of ULB. In support of 8 days of ULB, with the Feast occurring on the 2nd of 8 days.

GE: Only one amendment, actually a correction, as follows, The Last Supper on 14 Nisan was on the day of “The- Preparation-of-the-Passover-of-Yahweh” John 19:14— CORRECT! Which was 24 hours before the Feast of ULB— CORRECT! Which is in support of an 8-days-of-passover, passover--CORRECT. But this <8 days of ULB> is NOT <8 days of ULB>, but 8- days-of-passover, consisting of “the first day of / for seven days ULB” PRECEDED by “the first, first day ye shall REMOVE LEAVEN” and “KILL the passover (sacrifice) on”— “the fourteenth day of the month”. The Feast of ULB occurred from on the 2nd of the 8 days of 30 the Passover-Feast(-Period), from “on the first day thou shalt not eat anything leavened… (for)… seven days thou shalt eat ULB”. Exodus 12:15. “The Preparation of the Passover” WAS passover; “Seven days ULB” of passover also were passover. Remember it is Josephus and not the Law who called the passover an eight days . The Law calls both the “seven days ULB” and “this day—the fourteenth day ye shall kill the passover … a memorial a FEAST to the LORD—a FEAST by Ordinance / Law / Ethics / Institution / Service”.

Alex: GE - exactly as I thought.

GE: …we shall see … I don’t have <8 days of ULB>. The Law in Deuteronomy speaks of the Feast of ULB in terms of “six” and “seven” days. The Feast of ULB is never spoken of in terms of “seven” and “eight”, days. Not even in Josephus; he speaks of the whole passover period as an eight-days 'Feast'.

Alex: The bread at the Last Supper would have been ULB for Christ was without sin.

GE: The SDA taught you that. History tells you the Last Supper because it was the last meal at the goings in of the day on which LEAVEN WAS REMOVED, was still leavened. 'Bedikat Gamets' is the Jewish equivalent at the beginning of the fourteenth day of Abib. The search for leaven only began after this meal and next morning was celebrated with a bonfire of the 'found' leaven.

Alex: 31

Christ was not alive in body at start 15 Nisan - that day being the first of three.

GE: Why do you conclude --- ?! I know… but Jesus was not , as the WCs say. It is not, what any Scripture says. Therefore, Why?! 15 Nisan being “the first (of) SEVEN days ulb” yes!—Exodus 12:15,19; 13:6,7; 23:15; 34:18 Leviticus 23:6 Numbers 28:17 Deuteronomy 16:3,4,8 three 10+1 times “seven days ulb”! Not eight days unleavened bread!

Alex: The bread at the Last Supper would have been ULB for Christ was without sin.

GE: The bread at the Last Supper had to be leavened because Christ was ALIVE still, and his body and blood symbolically would give LIFE when eaten in Faith in the Lord's Supper. “OLD leaven” --- the idea of sinfulness is contained in the word and concept of “old” and age or creeping death --- not in the concept or word, 'leaven'. 'Leaven' rather conveys the ideas of Spirit and LIFE in the Bible throughout! http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p183 Alex: GE - Matthew 26:17 – “Now on the first day of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, ‘Where wilt thou that we make ready for thee to eat the passover?’” Source: [Cut] [Cut] states— “the only way to prove from the Bible that the bread was unleavened is to verify that Jesus ate the Last Supper on the 14th of Nisan—the actual Passover.” 32

GE: Denied. On the contrary, Exodus 12:15 emphatically commands that “ye shall REMOVE leaven the very first day” which was “the fourteenth day of the First Month”. Now the ‘matstsah’–”leavened bread” eaten “on the fourteenth … that NIGHT” was eaten after the lamb had been slain so that “the flesh” was eaten “WITH ULB”, “in THAT NIGHT”—clearly a SUNRISE day is presupposed and spoken of. See also the days indicated during the ten plagues, they were all SUNRISE days. Because in Egypt the Land of Darkness they worshipped the UPCOMING SUN, days were reckoned from sunrise to sunrise. Which was the reason Exodus uses SUNRISE days and the “fourteenth day of the First Month” —in Egypt—, was no exception. The Egyptians also worshipped the first day of the new year in the middle of the winter. But God—at the exodus—, told HIS people, the Israelites, that “THIS month”– the first 30 days after spring equinox – TO YOU, shall be the FIRST Month”–‘Abib’. So, leaven was only “REMOVED” on the fourteenth. But it was EATEN after sunset on the fourteenth—in Egypt. And so, leaven had to be “removed” in the morning—, of the fourteenth—, in Egypt. When Israel had settled in the Promised Land and the passover had become institutionalised, Israel’s reckoning of days also changed from sunrise to SUNSET reckoning. That was where the “Removal-of-Leaven-Meal”, the ‘Bedikat Chametz’ originated at the start of the fourteenth IN ITS NIGHT. Now I do NOT say Jesus ate the ‘Bedikat-Chametz-Meal’; but that He in its “HOUR”—in its time-of-day—instituted what became called “The Lord’s Supper”--- ‘Supper’ of leavened – any ‘leavened’, “bread”— as long as it was ‘ordinary bread’ which is always, leavened, “bread” in the Hebrew as well as NT Greek— “artos”. It does not matter what the LXX does in Levticus 8:2. It has no authority in this instance. The Hebrew is “ULB”–‘matstsah’. And Mark 14:12 and Matthew 26:17 33 both have the same—, which is NO words ‘feast’, or, ‘bread’, but is just ‘a-dzumos’, an Adjectival Verbal Noun, “to become without leaven” or “to de-leaven”, as in Mark 14:12, “Then on the first day of un-leaven(ing) (or) de-leaven(ing) (or) WITHOUT LEAVEN WHEN THEY ALWAYS HAD TO KILL the passover”—, exactly like when they at first had left Egypt. This is the DEFINING part which was in the evening- start of the fourteenth: “on the first day WHEN THEY ALWAYS HAD TO KILL the passover …”, “late”– ‘ereb’, “mid-afternoon between the (third and) fourth watches of days on the fourteenth day of the First Month” – ‘behn-ha-arba- yim’.

Alex: As for leaven and sin [Cut]

Steve Shirley: Whenever leaven is mentioned in the Bible (22 times in the Old Testament and 17 times in the New Testament), it always (or almost always) represents sin or evil. The first instance in which this word is used is found in (Ex 12:15).” Because leaven is equated with sin throughout the Bible, the “unleavened bread” pictured bread (Jesus) without sin in it.

GE: Shirley starts from an unfounded assertion; then attempts to ‘prove’ his assertion with instances of no proof. His prooftext, Ex 12:15 in no way suggests sin. In fact, he contradicts the meaning of the text because Exodus 12:15 tells the PEOPLE to remove all leaven. It doesn’t tell them to remove all their sins. What would they need the passover sacrifice for if they could have removed their sins with removing leaven from their houses? Shirley starts from an unfounded assertion; then without any proof-case of relevance, claims he has proved <“unleavened bread” pictured bread (Jesus) without 34 sin in it”. The lamb for passover sacrifice had to be “without blemish” itself and typified Jesus without sin in Himself. Unleavened showed the death of the perfect lamb; leavened bread showed its LIFE. And so with Jesus the Lamb of God who is called the “Bread of LIFE”—the sinless LEAVENED Bread of Life.

Shirley: … a “blood sacrifice” … was not to be offered with leavened bread (Ex 23:18)(Ex 34:25)…

GE: … which is wrong, opposite what is actually written. Exodus 23:17,18, “Ye shall bring two loaves … baken WITH LEAVEN … and ye shall offer WITH THE (LEAVENED) BREAD seven lambs… an offering unto the LORD of SWEET SAVOUR.” Sin cannot be a sweet savour unto the LORD but leaven was.

Shirley: It is interesting to note, however, that for a peace offering (Lev 7:13) and wave offering (Lev 23:17) God commanded that leaven be used.

GE: Significantly, yes! Because Jesus’ LIFE brought on our peace. Again, it only confirms leaven in the Bible much rather signifies the SINLESS LIFE OF CHRIST TAKEN AWAY for an atonement for our sinful life.

Shirley: The key is that you only need to add a very small amount of fermented dough to make new dough rise.(Gal 5:9) describes this saying, “a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 35

GE: Yes; that’s the . It’s not sin which is the key. Rather, … the function of yeast or fermentation can be compared with the working of the Holy Spirit bringing the Light of Jesus into one’s life, Ephesians 5:8-10 “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord : walk as children of the light for the FRUIT OF LIGHT [SPIRIT] in all goodness and righteousness and truth proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.” A of Jesus’ Divine LIFE—like the yeast of life or the leaven of the Spirit—enlightens everything in all of God’s children. There is NO justification for Shirley’s illegitimate application, Carrying the similitude of the leaven out to the Life of the Lord is the real and positive meaning which is to assure true believers. It must be said of JESUS who is our Righteousness, that “a little leaven” of HIS LIFE will fill and let “grow with the growth of God, the whole Body of Christ’s Own.” Colossians 2:19.

Shirley: In the second instance, Jesus compared the false teaching (sin) of the Pharisees and Sadducees with leaven (Mt 16:6-12). In the third, Jesus warned of the leaven of Herod (he was evil and immoral: Mt 4:1-12, Mk 6:14-29, Lk 3:18-21, Lk 23:7-12) and again the Pharisees (Mk 8:15). In the fourth, Jesus said, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy” (sin)(Lk 12:1).

GE: Yes indeed when it is Jesus Himself who defines the leaven of the Pharisees as hypocrisy, who will protest?! But where it is God who Himself instructs his children on the meaning of the leaven of the Bread-of-Life, who is going to define it as the 36 leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy?!

Shirley: In (1 Cor 5:8), Paul also gives us a great contrast between leavened (sin) and unleavened (sin free) bread, comparing leaven with “malice and wickedness” and unleavened bread with “sincerity and truth.

GE: Shirley gives a faulty interpretation. The ‘key-word’, here, is not the word ‘leaven’, but the word “OLD, leaven—the leaven-OF-MALICE and wickedness” Why does Shirley not quote the text fully?! Because it is an old malady of expositors to rigidly sort words into categories of no exceptions, to bolster some of other extremist ideology. But let’s look closer at the words which Paul used. He ends verse 8 saying, “Let us feast … with REMOVING LEAVEN / UN-LEAVENING”—which ‘leaven’? “Let us feast in / with / by (the) removing of sincerity and truth” of the “OLD leaven” and “leaven-of-MALICE-and-wickedness.” “in / with / by (the) removing”—‘en’ Preposition plus DATIVE—Modal Dative / Dative of Means / Dative and Preposition of RELATION! So here Paul actually supplies a VIVID SPIRITUAL Christian application of the passover-feast specifically wherein is CELEBRATED THE REMOVAL OF OLD LEAVEN. Here only, Paul makes the feast one of the removing of the “OLD leaven” of the PEOPLE’S “malice and wickedness” AS WELL AS of Jesus’ NEW LIFE that He had obtained “in / with / by REMOVING” the leaven (Life) of his own and only sinless life.

Shirley: Jesus said, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is 37 hypocrisy” (sin)(Lk 12:1).”

GE: Yes indeed when it is Jesus Himself who defines the leaven of the Pharisees as hypocrisy, the leaven of the Pharisees is, hypocrisy—and sin. Hypocrisy is spiritual DEATH APPEARING to be Life. But Jesus’ leaven IS, Righteousness and IS, LIFE— “life more abundantly!” Jesus’ leaven makes the leaven-less dough of our own old lives, LIVE and swell and rise and overflow our plate and cup of joy and enjoyment in the Lord in the heat and heart of affliction, trial and temptation.

Reg: Jesus died at the end of the 9th Hour “Wednesday” which if the start of the eve of the 15th

GE: It means that you reckon the last three hours of daylight are both the end of the current day and the start of the oncoming day. Reg, that is, and also, is not the meaning of the old English words “eve” or “even” or even “evening”, unfortunately, because they have caused infinite confusion.

Reg: I base all my findings on the first passover, the last one has to come up to it Mat 27:57 Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:31 in reliable bibles are after sunset when Joseph went to Pilot the end of the 9th hour that puts Jesus death in line with Ex:6:18 The passover and the feast of unleavened bread were all in the same 24hour period

GE: This is indeed where all your ‘findings’ are going wrong. In all 38 reliable Bibles Joseph went to Pilate ‘after sunset’— CORRECT! But sunset isn't ! Jesus said a “day has twelve hours” so that sunset is at the end of the twelfth hour and begins the first hour of the night and its “evening” as well as the new 24-hour day. Joseph went to Pilate after the end of the 12th hour; that puts Jesus’ death in line with Exodus 12:6 and Leviticus 23:5—and, with Exodus 16:18 where the quails fell mid-afternoon three hours before sunset, and were eaten afterwards until who knows which hours of the following night. The sacrifice of the passover lamb was “on the fourteenth day” and the feast of unleavened bread was after the 12 hour period preceding—in Exodus preceding on, the fourteenth SUNRISE day; and in Leviticus the 12 hour period preceding the fifteenth SUNSET day.

Reg: Luke 24 Luke 24:1,2 Mar 28:5-10 Mark 16:2 are after daylight and are the last of the 4 to see Jesus Mark 16:9-14 are the first 3 Mark 16:9 Mary John 20:17 before Jesus went to the Father Rev5

GE: Rev5 is irrelevant.

Reg: Luke 24 Luke 24:1,2 Mar 28:5-10 Mark 16:2 are after daylight and are the last of the 4 to see Jesus Mark 16:9-14 are the first 3 Mark 16:9 Mary John 20:17 before Jesus went to the Father Rev5 2 two on the road to Emmaus after His return from the Father 3 11 in the upper room including the 2 on the road from Emmaus John 20:19 4 the women at daylight Mat 28:5-10 They held Him something He would not let Mary do because He had not then been to see the Father in Heaven John 20:17 39

GE: Again, why say it? Jesus needed not to go to the Father; his Father raised Him from the dead. Christ was “raised up from the dead by the GLORY OF THE FATHER” Romans 6:4— right there in his grave “In the fullness of the Sabbath’s daylight mid-inclining towards the First Day of the week.” Right where the Shekinah the Presence of God / overshadowed the body and flesh of the Son in death that it should “not see corruption”! But Reg denies it! Why? That Jesus had to go to heaven to receive the Father’s approval is SDA blasphemy and Mrs E.G. White’s SUPREME FALSE PROPHECY. If the Father had not approved Jesus’ sacrifice He would not have raised Him from the dead in the first place —what blasphemous thought—God forbid!

Reg: It was still Sabbath towards evening not yet reached its destination sun had not set Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:55 and first half of verse 56 are Friday Jesus had been in the tomb 24hr then they bought the spices this is Friday and prepared them and when the sun set they kept the Sabbath--- LK 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. This is the Sabbath of Mat 28:1, not Mark 16:1 Thursday is the first of 3 Sabbaths 1st 15th 2nd 7th day sabbath 3rd 21st You still haven’t given us the text He rose on Sunday

GE: It was not . “The Sabbath HAD GONE THROUGH”—it was, “after the Sabbath” in Mark 16:1. And yes, , but not —it had not been Sabbath YET! Why? Because YET! ‘epephohsken sabbaton’— “daylight was mid-inclining that day The Preparation towards the Sabbath”: ‘sabbaton’ either Accusative or Nominative. Mark 16:1 came 27 hours after Luke 23:55; Luke 23:54 was three hours before the Sabbath and Mark 16:1 was after sunset after the Sabbath. Therefore Jesus’ body had been in the tomb 24 hours from Luke 23:54 until “Sabbath” the same time “on the Sabbath daylight mid-inclining towards the First Day of the week then there was a great earthquake” Matthew 28:1. The women “bought spices after the Sabbath”. That was “On the First Day of the week”(Mark 16:2). The THREE women in Mark 16:1 “bought spices …” and of course would have ‘prepared them’, “… so that…” in Luke 24:1-2, “…when they would go they might anoint Him but they found not the body”. “So very early…” in Mark 16:2, “… before sunrise on the First Day of the week they came ON PURPOSE TO [‘erchontai EPI’] the tomb and AGAIN inspected the stone, and said among themselves, It is unbelievable for us WHO MOVED THE STONE, it is so BIG?!” Mark 16:2 Therefore Reg, for you to patch together two texts which don’t deal with the same things or with the same time or with the same day, is astonishingly dishonest and stupid. Like here again, UNBELIEVABLE! But you go on unabashed, you hypocrite, as if Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:54-56 are the same, ! Yes, “This…> Luke 23:56b, “…they began to rest the Sabbath Day according to the Commandment”, <…is the Sabbath of Mat 28:1>. Luke 23:56b is the Sabbath HAVING STARTED. But Mark 16:1, is NOT “…the Sabbath Day according to the Commandment”! It is “…the Sabbath Day 41 according to the Commandment”, “…having GONE THROUGH / having PASSED / having been OVER / having been PAST and…”, , “…on the First Day of the week” in Mark 16:2! . Anon: I completely and safely reject the Greek, why? Because I have the word of God in my own language. Prove me wrong! The division of chapters does not indicate a beginning or end of a subject or thought. The Jews especially those priest that asked for a watch would not set the watch on the sabbath day, they would wait for it to be ended. Hence “in the end of the Sabbath” fits perfectly in mt 27 and causes confusion in 28:1 having the Mary's visit the grave at a time when Mark has them at the market getting spices and ointments. Again one more time you have conflicting times on the same events

GE: The man who has but rejects it …‘PROVEN WRONG’ by himself in his own language!

Rubies: I could chronologically tabulate and cross-reference all the mentions of Mary Magdalene which prove how she first arrived at the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING at DAWN, to find to her astonishment, that Jesus was no longer in it. Etc etc

GE: Well, you already have more trouble than you can handle in only this last example of your abilities. To start with, —Give me just one! There is not one! 42

Next: — Give me just one! There is not one! The ONLY mention of “they found not the body”, is that in Luke 24:1-2, where SEVERAL women, mentioned in verse 10, discovered . And they did not make their discovery , but “deepest morning of night”–‘orthrou batheohs’ just after midnight on the First Day of the week. Next and most important: — Give me just one! There is not one! On the contrary, John tells that Mary “had had stood after next to the grave” which implies that she stayed behind after a previous visit at the tomb of more women than just herself. So the story that Mary had arrived at the tomb all by herself before anyone else, is an old wives’ tale.

Reg: we all have to come to the truth to the formation of a 24hr day as used in the bible Gods version the truth rests on it To understand the events times and what part of the day is being presented I will begin in---GEN 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Here it says the evening and the morning in the first day that is 24 hours and we all have watches or clocks that prove that is how long the world takes to complete a full revelation Now befors God split the darkness to give us light there was total darkness so we have to start the day at darkness when the only thing visible from earth were the stars So 24hrs starts when the stars became visible and we have a test--JOB 3:9 Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:- 43

Day begins at sunrise and continues for 12hr and comes back to starting point Now the different sections of night and day are governed by the sun and both night and day divided into 4 watches of 3 hour periods periods start when stars become visible EVENING 1st watch 6 to 12 pm in our time 2nd watch 9 pm to midnight 3rd watch Midnight to midmorning 3am 4th watch midmorning to daylight 6am ------DAY------1st watch 6am to 9am 2nd watch 9am to noon or midday 3rd watch noon to 3pm 4th 3 pm to 6pm EVENING sun disappears over the horizon 14th day at even 24hrs finished even had come; afternoon is only once mentioned in the Bible and in John 19:8 so Quails fell between the 2 evenings--- EX 16:8 And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full; for that the LORD heareth your murmurings which ye murmur against him: and what are we? your murmurings are not against us, but against the LORD.---twilight Twilight would be the leven was put out of the house they could have carried out in there heads they were making beer and had it in skins These are the rest of Gen 1 which state the evening being beginning of each day Gen 1:8,13,19,23,31,and Jesus said in---JN 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

GE: Fine, but for a few typos 'n stuff; but in principle, fine. Summarised: Bible days end and start sunset. 44

Is that correct, Reg? Now if it is correct, Reg old chap, ABIDE BY YOUR OWN RULES! Key TURNING-POINT for days ending as well as days beginning --- here is Reg of TopixSDA's definition: <6pm EVENING sun disappears over the horizon> ------with the stress on disappears, viz., 6 pm EVENING sun has SET over the horizon. 100%! Love you!GE: Let me tell you again; it seems no one comprehends! NEVER HAS LUKE 24:21 BEEN READ IN WHOLE CONTEXT! The concrete SCRIPTURAL TRUTH I want you to see obviates itself from the following extracts from Luke 24 “On the First Day of the week … … the day far spent toward evening … … two of them told Jesus … … besides today (having been) the third day since they had delivered Him to be crucified … … certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that He was alive.” “Today the third day since they crucified Him” … Which day was it? … it was the day AFTER … … “the third day Christ rose from the dead”. … “today the third day since they crucified Him certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that he was alive … … two of them told Jesus … … on the First Day of the week … … the day far spent toward evening.” Jesus had already resurrected; Jesus had not yet appeared. Therefore ... “RISEN, He early on the First Day APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first.” Luke 24 and Mark 16:9 45

Check their truth against John 19:1 and 11-17. My aim was to let the Scripture tell the truth, only the truth and the whole truth ITSELF. Without any explanation Luke 24 unequivocally and unambiguously declares: “On the First Day of the week -- the third day since they crucified Him, day far spent toward evening -- two of them told Jesus, Today certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that he was alive …” He “was RISEN”! He did not then, rise! He then “WAS, risen”! He THEN: “deepest morning”, “WAS, RISEN”! But only when a “gardener” would come to his “garden” -- “early on the First Day of the week --, APPEARED He first to Mary Magdalene AS THE RISEN ONE”--– “THIS Jesus whom God raised from the dead CHRIST AND LORD” --- “ON THE SABBATH BEFORE”— “the Sabbath before the First Day of the week” Matthew 28:1-4. ... or does no one care?! God help us

Reg: You agreed John 12:1 is 6 days before the passover

GE: That’s what John 12:1 says, isn’t it? Not exactly. John 12:1 says exactly that it was “six days before DAYS”– Plural – of passover, viz., it was six days before the FEAST– “days”, i.e., “six days before”, “the first day (of) seven days ULB you shall eat”. In other words, John 12:1 says it was six days before Abib 15—six days before the first day ULB was eaten. On that I , yes. I never that —, passover “the first day they KILLED the passover”— passover “on the fourteenth day of the month”. Six days before the fourteenth would mean Jesus travelled on a Thursday to Bethany and on Friday “visited Lazarus at home in Bethany where they prepared a meal for Him” and “the next day” John 12:12—on the Sabbath—, would have entered into Jerusalem—something He undoubtedly would not do! Also … Referred “before passover” to six days before the fourteenth, not one of the other indicators as to the days of the passion week would fall into place. So it is impossible I , or, to . I also … never

The Last of All Passovers— A condensed chronology as abbreviated as precise… “Because that day was great-day-sabbath-of(-passover ) and since it was The Preparation”, “the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath and already evening” John 19:31 Mark 15:42, “six days before the Days” of the passover Feast beginning on Abib 15, was on the Sabbath the 9th day of the First Month. That’s what I said. Sunday was “the next day” John 12:12—the 10th of the month when the Lamb was separated—, five days before the first day of the feast “Days”. “And the next day” Mark 11:12, was Monday the 11th day of the month four days before the Feast Days, on which Jesus cursed the fig tree. Jesus on Tuesday on the 12th day of the month three days “before the Feast” (John 13:1), told his disciples that He “after two days” would be “betrayed” and “crucified” Matthew 26:2. He would be “betrayed” and “crucified”, “on the fourteenth day of the month”, “when they killed the passover”— on Abib 14. The Jews on Wednesday Abib 13 “two days after was the 47

Feast” Abib 15 on Friday, connived to kill Jesus, but “not on the Feast” Mark 14:1,2. Two days before Abib 15 the first of the seven Feast Days of ULB was Wednesday the 13th day of the month. Next day on Thursday Abib 14 “on the first day (of the passover) they removed leaven when always they had to kill the passover”, the Jews “not on the Feast” Abib 15 but on the day “before the Feast” John 13:1 on Abib 14, crucified Jesus and He died, “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God”. “It was The Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER” John 19:14 “the Preparation Day of the Passover” for the Feast DAYS of the Passover “from the fifteenth until the one and twentieth day of the First Month” of ULB eaten Exodus 12:18b. On the morning of the day of the Crucifixion, Abib 14, “before the Feast”—Abib 15, the Jews because they did not want to defile themselves did not want to enter Pilate’s house so that they still could eat their passover meal “the first night” following of ULB Feast—John 19:39. That first Festive Night “to be solemnly observed “had begun, evening already having come, since it was The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath” the Sixth Day of the week —‘Thursday night’ before ‘Friday’ morning and day, in Mark 15:42, Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50 “when there arrived this man called Joseph”. Here, “had begun … that day great day of sabbath” of the passover, “the first night” of ULB THWARTED BY THE DEATH OF CHRIST—NO MORE seders for Israel and Judah forever.

Michael: Albert Barnes Well known Scholar of the Bible on Matthew 28:1… “In the end of the sabbath - The word “end” here means the same as “after” the Sabbath - that is, after the Sabbath was fully completed or finished, and may be expressed in this manner: “In the night following the Sabbath, for the Sabbath closed at sunset, as it began to dawn,” etc. 48

As it began to dawn toward the first day of the week - The word “dawn” is not of necessity in the original. The word there properly means as the first day “approached” or drew on, without specifying the precise time. Mark says Mar_16:1-2 that it was after “the sabbath was past, and very early in the morning, at the rising of the sun”- that is, not that the sun “was risen”, but that it was about to rise, or at the early break of day. Luke says Luk_24:1 that it was “very early in the morning;” in the Greek text, “deep twilight”, or when there was scarcely any light. John Joh_20:1 says it was “very early, while it was yet dark”- that is, it was not yet full daylight, or the sun had not yet risen. The time when they came, therefore, was at the break of day, when the sun was about to rise, but while it was yet so dark as to render objects obscure, or not distinctly visible. The first day of the week - The day which is observed by Christians as the Sabbath. The Jews observed the seventh day of the week, or our Saturday. During that day our Saviour was in the grave. As he rose on the morning of the first day, that day has always been observed in commemoration of so glorious an event.”

GE: Barnes has been refuted by his fellow Sunday Resurrection believers like A.T. Robertson. In fact, Barnes is a dishonest looser lying to save face for his bad scholarship. Nevertheless he does not say what the WCs say he does! They—like you, Michael—, misinterpret Barnes! http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p184 Michael: Give me source of back up for conclusions, just one Scholar of the Bible that supports your theory that Jesus rose on the Sabbath or was Crucified on Wednesday... here is another scholar Mathew Henry on Mat_28:1. 49

“Observe, 1. When they came; in the END of the SABBATH, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, This fixes the time of Christ's resurrection. (1.) He arose the third day after his death; that was the time which he had often prefixed, and he kept within it. He was buried in the evening of the SIXTH DAY of the week, and arose in the morning of the FIRST Day of the following week, He arose the THIRD Day,”

GE: What is easier to assert? Matthew Henry or not, he cannot change the Greek. More important, he cannot change Jesus’ fulfilling of all the Law and Prophets and Psalms. He cannot change the fact Jesus is Our Passover Lamb of God. The Greek only tells what God foretold and let happen in Christ. Therefore the Greek is irrefutable and unchangeable historic FACT and prophetic Truth revealed in itself all about the RESURRECTED from the dead and grave Son of God Jesus Christ. Matthew Henry BELIES every word he wrote just before where he lies, saying, . That is nowhere written in Barnes’ quoted Scriptures or OWN statements, To hell with mighty scholars and scholarship that unknowingly and knowingly serve and worship esteem and gain like nouveau riche beggars.

Alex: Interesting - pretty much the conclusion I arrived at. Wednesday 14 Nisan 30 AD. I am satisfied.

GE: 50

I'll show you WHO and WHAT it is to BOAST on this forum: Here it is, post 3869 above …

Alex: It wasnt a BOAST and I don't put people down. Have grace towards others GE. . GE: Alright then, Alex. If you feel I owe you an apology. Scripture is everybody's judge. That I am wrong and behave wrong is more likely than not and I won't deny. I apologise because I would not boast that I would not or do not put people down, or don't try to put people down.

Rubies: I have arrived at the conclusion that you have absolutely no discernment, Alex. Sorry about that, Alex. You certainly have the smarts to come to better conclusions, but you do keep running after all the lunatics and heretics under the sun, just because they happen to believe in a Wednesday Cross. Yet THEY are ALL SABBATARIANS!! And THEY think YOU are not saved because you are a Sunday-go-to-meetin' commandment breaking sinner!

GE: IGNORANCE PREVENTS YOU FROM ENTERING INTO SCRIPTURE. NO! None of you nor the bunch of you are worth two words intelligibly exchanged. You do not have to do with me, GE. You do not have to do with God or with Christ. CHRIST said, HE judges no one -- THE SCRIPTURES DO! And the Scriptures judged you all with all your satanic confusion. WC more than Sunday-resurrection of Jesus Christ is BY FAR the biggest SCAM AND FRAUD the world and history has ever witnessed. It originated from Seventh-day Adventism and bears the wicked fruit of Seventh- 51 day Adventism THOUSAND-FOLD. Christ said the Scriptures ALREADY have judged you ! Here is, ‘The Evolution of the Species Wednesdanus Crossitus Crossitus’: Experiment Control: The Darwinian scientific observation of 8 years old Saartjie, <‘How the Bird Got its Brain’… Find out how the bird got its Clever brain!!! Long long ago before birds had brains they couldn’t think. They had wings, a beak, claws and feathers. One little bird lived on the ground. He was very dumb. He had no friends because he was very dumb. His name was Goggle! Then one day Goggle went to find something to eat in the jungle. He found worms to eat. He ate the worms but he didn’t chew them. Finally he ate so many worms that the worms filled up in his head and made a brain shape. Because he ate those clever worms he had a brain. From that day on birds were born with brains.> The WCs found SDA worms to eat; first they ate worms until their hearts overflowed with worms and worms forced up worms until their skull cavity was filled with SDA worms— not “Clever worms”, but STUPID worms! From that day on SDAs and WCs contest whose brain is most vermicular and stupid.

Alex: GE - what a rant! Calm yourself. Did you forget that: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8,9

GE: Alex, your assumption is wrong. Read Exodus 12:8. 52

Alex: [That] no meat was eaten on 14 Nisan is not incorrect as Exodus 12:8 clearly states it was eaten that night meaning 15 Nisan 1st day of weekly feasts of unleavened bread. I am unsure why this needs going over again or why a verse was supplied with the aim of correction of a particular point when it in fact supports the authors original position - that no meat was eaten on 14 Nisan.

GE: Exodus 12:8 clearly does not state meat - “flesh” was eaten that night on 15 Nisan or meaning on 15 Nisan; it states, and means, “on the fourteenth day”. Because days were sunrise days in Egypt and therefore also before and at the passover in Egypt were sunrise days. So “on the fourteenth day” its “night” was its second halve; not its beginning halve.

Alex: GE, by the time after the Exodus, meaning to include the tabernacle, the First and Second Temple periods including the time of Christ do you agree that no meat was consumed on the evening just past 6 PM on 14 Nisan being the Lord's Passover and also the timing of the Last Supper?

GE: <… on the evening just past 6 PM on 14 Nisan being> the evening after sunset after 13 Nisan, my answer is, Yes! http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p185 Alex: Your claim that by John 19 verse 42 that Joseph didn't have permission nor the body is incorrect as the preceding verses in verse 38 and 40 clearly state Joseph had permission from 53

Pilate and that both men had taken the body down in readiness for burial that same day 14 Nisan.

GE: I’m afraid you perception of my supposed claim … that , is incorrect. Joseph asked for the body and Pilate had it delivered to him; and “Nicodemus also (later) that first night” of ULB, came to help Joseph and the two of them prepared the body further to get it ready to be finally interred next day the same day AND FINISHED TO DO SO … “by the time of the Jews’ preparations to begin … mid-afternoon on the Preparation towards the approaching Sabbath”. John 19:42 Luke 23:54.

Alex: No! John 19:40 does not advocate burials to take place on high day Sabbaths and would not do so as it was against Jewish custom to perform burials on a sabbath or a day holy convocation. You know this so I am unsure why you made this statement.

GE: O, I know you think so. But I know you are wrong on this and that the fifteenth day of the First Month the “great day” and “sabbath” of the passover was EXACTLY DESIGNED for to “burn with fire that which remained” of the passover sacrifice and that which in “that night solemnly to be observed” had to be EATEN as in a way “TO THE ETHICAL LAW” OF THE PASSOVER “TO BURY”. At the first passover “the flesh” was eaten “with UB”, “on the fourteenth”.

Alex: Bollocks. Assuming the Passover laws can be applied to Jewish customs of burial - if nothing remained then there was nothing to bury! Regardless NO burials are permitted on the 54 annual high sabbaths, in this case Nisan 15 nor weekly sabbaths. NO burial allowed on sabbaths or holy days of convocation. Source [Cut]…

GE: …[Cut] Instead bring the Scriptures ! It’s the only Source God, might be interested in. . Alex: Furthermore since Christ was hung on the cross the day before on the Day of Preparation Nisan 14 we find…

GE: We find Christ was hanged on the cross on “the Preparation of the Passover”—Nisan 14, John 19:14; not on “The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath” Mark 15:42, “since it was The Preparation on the sabbath THAT DAY great / high- day-of-sabbath” of the passover, Nisan 15, John 19:31, and the bodies still hanging on the crosses, that the Jews asked Pilate to get the bodies and crosses down and removed out of sight.

Alex: We find furthermore since Christ was hung on the cross the day before on the Day of Preparation Nisan 14 we find that Torah Law was also kept in the eyes of the Jews - “If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him ON THE SAME DAY, for he who is hanged is the curse of God, so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23; cf. Joshua 8:29, 10:26- 27).” Christ was promptly buried by sun down late Nisan 14.

GE: 55

If that were so Christ was buried directly contrary the very verse you quoted!

Alex: Please direct me to where the meat of the Passover Lamb as sacrificed on 14 Nisan was eaten with the unleavened bread on 14 Nisan the Lord's Passover day. . GE: Exodus 12:6,8,14,27,42. Remember that day occurred in Egypt before the exodus; it was the first of three sunrise days of three days first and three days’ nights, last— “three days THICK DARKNESS” no light from the sun distinguishable days or nights, but one night of the Passover of Yahweh.

Alex: GE wrote, “whereas Mark 15:42 in so many words says that The Preparation Day evening had already begin”. No. We have already covered that. I gave you a link for a Greek Interlinear translation which clearly shows “even had come” as “between the evenings” meaning 3 PM. Did you not read that? For I don’t recall any specific comment re Greek translation.

GE: You don’t need give me , Alex. Just Scripture is better than anything else. is no . It is illegitimate, dishonest, unchristian, Sunday-indoctrination. Did you read the thing’s DATE, Alex?! “between the evenings” in the Hebrew text - ‘behn ha arba yim’, has nothing to do with the Greek in Mark 15:42, ‘opsias genomenehs’- “evening had come” after, after 6 PM. 56

Alex: Lets recap John 19:31 “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day,(for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.” How can a Day of Preparation for the Sabbath and the High Day Sabbath be on the same Jewish day? Really? Please do explain.

GE: Why not? There is nothing except, Why can the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath and the High Day Sabbath of the passover NOT be on the same day of the week?

Alex: Also no it is not written in John 19:31 as you claimed it was written “the day of Preparation being the high day Sabbath”. What translation are you using?

GE: ‘epei paraskeueh ehn’ … ‘eimi’ hence ‘ehn’=“being” / “because was” = ‘EPEI ehn’=“because was” / “because became” / “being” etc. – “because having been / because having become / because it was the Preparation…”– ‘… ehn gar megaleh heh hehmera ekeinou tou sabbatou’ – “… being / because was / because having become / because that day was high day sabbath” That is what the Greek says and, means. Is it Alex or is it Rubies who claims, … nonsense! Just the other way round; A ‘sabbath’ was called a ‘high sabbath’ because it was the ‘feast sabbath’ not because it was the Seventh Day Sabbath which fell during the feast’s “season”. Any ‘high sabbath’— “great day sabbath”, ‘first day 57 of month sabbath’, ‘yearly sabbath’—any ceremonial, ‘sabbath’—exactly because of the ceremonies that belonged to it and which made the difference between ceremonial sabbaths and the weekly Sabbaths was, a ‘ceremonial sabbath’. People called them ‘ceremonial sabbaths’ because of the ceremonies that belonged to, on, and with them. A ceremonial sabbath on which no work was allowed never existed. And no Bible says there are NO ceremonial Sabbaths. That’s Rubies’ or Alex’s (com si com sa) spinning. On the weekly Sabbath no ordinary work was permitted. On feast sabbaths some work was not only permitted; specific work was prescribed. Thus the Jews were obliged to “prepare for the passover” if it was for the weekly sabbath or not. To “prepare for passover”, meant to slaughter the lamb the day before; and to ‘prepare the passover’ meant to prepare it to be eaten and or buried “according to the ethics of the passover” : ON passover “ON the sabbath that day of great day sabbath” of passover. John 19:31. To “prepare for passover” feast, meant to prepare for “to bury”, as well as to bury “that which remained” of the passover. That which remained of the Passover of Yahweh Sacrifice was Jesus’ body. For Joseph, Nicodemus and the two Marys it was mandatory to “prepare” whatever was to be prepared and “according to the ethics of the Jews to bury” on the Passover-Bone-Day, was mandatory to be buried. You are confused, Alex, because of your belief in a convoluted theory that has no basis in the Scriptures, viz., your WC theory as confused and convoluted as Rubies’ fractious Friday crucifixion fabrication.

Anon: There was only one Sabbath were no work is allowed; and the ceremonial sabbath servile work is allowed.

GE: 58

Mio, HA and Ant said the same thing. Rubies said basically the same thing. Said Guy: <3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. The Passover and Unleavened Bread 4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.> Wrote Ant: Samie holds the same view. I answered him, This is sheer shrewdness, Samie, of yours! Your reasoning is not FROM Scripture-detail on the days of the week of Jesus' Last Passover, TO, the days of the week; but your reasoning STARTS FROM your presumed, YEAR --- on the basis of astrometrics --- TO, arbitrary days and dates which have nothing to do with the Scriptures. You decided the year; then you decided a WC; then you decided Abib 14 must with both. And for all these, you most , needed a LAW that never, existed! If one willed, one DOES ALSO find a full moon which fell on a THURSDAY round about 30 years after Jesus' birth but it 59

BEFOREHAND won't do for you because you have BEFOREHAND decided it must be the year 31 and you have BEFOREHAND decided it must be a Wednesday. Your method and philosophy of method are FALSE. And the ONLY 'reason' which you or any WCite has EVER thought you had, is the FALSE notion AFTER ALL WCites could never have thought of ANY thing else why Jesus could not be BURIED ON THE PASSOVER- SABBATH which fell on the Sixth Day of the week. THIS is the whole premeditated FRAUD of the Wednesday Crucifixion SCAM. NOTHING else; NOTHING more; NOTHING better and NOTHING less fraudulent. Truth is, Jesus was BURIED on “The Preparation WHICH IS : THE FORE-SABBATH” ---'FRIDAY'! This Friday-BURIAL day of Jesus is the DEATH KNELL to both the WC and FC heresies. The first passover lasted “THREE DAYS THICK DARKNESS”, resulting on Rest Day OF THE LORD GOD : “the third day” and in “seven - literal - SABBATHS” equalling “seven - literal- WEEKS” following, up to, and on, Pentecost. The last passover --- the Passover of Yahweh --- exactly the same. But with your days of the week identified, you must have seven THURSDAYS up to and on Pentecost. As absurd as ‘Pente-Thursday’, as absurd is ‘Wednesday Crucifixion’. But the passover-story in Exodus is the best. It shows how the Israelites had to work with all their might to go out of Egypt the day directly after they had killed the passover. That they had to “burn with fire” whatever remained of the passover sacrifice. They were forced by the occasion to carry heavy burdens like their dough and tents and the gold and riches the Egyptians loaded upon them on their way out of Egypt on the fifteenth day of the First Month. They had to kindle fire to 60 bake unleavened cakes and pitch their tents only on the same day still to dismantle them again at Succot and had to move on until caught between the Red Sea and the place of the god-of- wind-storms and they thought they were going to die … all on the fifteenth day of the month the holy convocation and sabbath day of the passover. The New Testament shows which things were “ethical” and “customary” in the time of Christ —in other words—shows what things then, were LEGAL and mandatory for the Jews ON the “great day sabbath (of the passover)”. The Gospels themselves specifically mention that whatever was needed for a burial, was obligatory to be sold to the undertaker of a burial on the passover sabbath, like the “clean linen” which Joseph went to buy in the heart of night. The Gospels tell how Joseph and Nicodemus with great care and trouble obtained and prepared Jesus’ body for the grave IN “THAT FIRST NIGHT” of the passover-season in which unleavened bread had to be eaten for “the first” of seven nights. Nothing happened that OUGHT not to have happened. Behind everything which was done was God in his Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ. “How the Christ ought to have suffered (‘pascha’), “according to the Law and Moses”, “the Whole- Day-Bone-Day” of his Burial on the Feast and “great day sabbath” of the Passover of Yahweh”. “Ye shall observe THIS THING for an ordinance to thee”—not !

Dave: Hi Reg I'm not sure why you think Alex said the 7th day weekly Sabbath was the 15th - in fact his timeline as was made available in post 2065 clearly has 14th as Wed till 6PM, 15th as Thurs etc making what you said as the Sabbath before the Passover as 10 as was listed in timeline as Shabbat Hagadol. You two appear to be in agreement as to the days but differ 61 that Jesus was buried after the evening had pass i.e. on 15th which was the High Sabbath. This would be contrary to Jewish customs. I too prefer the Greek text of “between the evenings” not the modern translations of “evening had come” to be mid afternoon around 3PM when second sacrifice was killed.

GE: Yes Dave, all three of you agree on a WC. What you mean with and what the Law says it had to be, are worlds apart. According to the Torah the Law the sacrifice had to be eaten, quote, Now to eat the sacrifice is to BURY it in the eater’s body so that it can be assimilated with the eater’s mortality and corruptibility. And to “burn with fire that which remained” of the sacrifice afterwards, was to show the return to the dust of the earth as when a dead body is buried—‘interred’. Which two same things—the eating of the body and the burying / burning of it —was minutely done and “the next day” after the morning respectively. So to say it , is to contradict yourself and according to the Scriptures! That is why you find it possible to, quote, --- because THERE IS NO ! But say your preference is correct and , on the same day that He died, then He had to have 62 been BURIED the same moment as He DIED that day, <“between the evenings” …mid afternoon around 3PM when second sacrifice was killed>. That is what comes of substituting the Greek text in Mark 15:42 and John 19:31, , with your own ! And that is only what Alex has been arguing with his learned

Reg: Jesus had to fulfil the FIRST PASSOVER the change that came in Passover was no accident God had been behind it so that Christ could die on time after the sun had disappeared over the horizon on the first day of unleavened bread Mark 14:12

GE: Yes, this is how EVERY WC&B and EVERY FC&B and EVERY TC&B rape and abuse the Word of God in Mark 14:12 and 15:42 and Matthew 26:17 and 27:57 and Luke 22:7 and 23:50. It is not the senile completely deranged Reg only, but everyone of them all over the world. Note, WC&B stands for Wednesday Crucified AND Buried lunatic(s), and FC&B stands for Friday Crucified AND Buried lunatic(s), and TC&B stands for Thursday Crucified AND Buried lunatic(s). Note, That means that all three classes of these jerks whether they deny or admit it or not stand for Sunday Resurrection. Note, That means the whole lot of them are the castigating maimers of God’s Written Word. 63

Note, … who shall give reckoning in the day of judgment, very soon.

Reg: John 19:31 Newberry = the Jews because it “was” preparation is imperfect tense continuous in the past “was doing” the sun had set and Sabbath began Christ had the ability to give up His life and He waited until the sun had disappeared over the horizon then He died

GE: No! This is above Newberry. This is “above what is written”

Rubies: Gerhard wrote : “All translations, Alex, are only the work of humans like you and me. I trust no one or all together of them or us. I believe the TEXT. The Text says “six days before the DAYS of passover” the meaning of which expression is irrefutably the first day of the Passover’s “seven days Unleavened Bread”, FEAST—NOT of the “Passover” per se “the first day they KILLED the passover”. You claim that you “only trust the text.” WHICH “text”, I wonder? You insist that John 12:1 says “6 days before Passover's DAYS,” and use this subterfuge to date your chronology. Please divulge the source of all these anomalous interpretations you keep giving.

GE: I do not give ; consistency of the Text is what I present. Substantiate your false anomalous charges yourself!

Rubies: 64

The Greek according to Interlinear Scripture Analyzer says, John 12:1 “Iesous pro hex hemeron tou PASCHA elthen eis bethanian.” No “Passover's DAYS” in sight. I believe you rely heavily on a faulty memory and delusions of your own infallibility when you use reams of unreferenced pseudo-scriptures. Here, you may be confusing the singular word PASCHA for “Passover” with the Greek plural word AZUMON, translated “day of Unleavened Bread” in Matt 26:17, Mark 14:12 & Luke 22:7. Of course this literally means “UNLEAVENEDS” and the word “DAY” is not in the original Greek here.

GE: WHAAAT? ?! YOU are saying what I supposedly said—which I did NOT say! That is what is called FRAUD! In any case, it is ‘a-dzumos’ from ‘a’–”without” and ‘dzumeh’–”leaven”. It is not in Mark 14:12 Matt 26:17, Mark 14:12 Luke 22:7, where ‘adzumos’ strictly speaking functions Adjectively, “the first day without leaven(ed bread)” or paraphrased, “the first day leaven was removed”. And I wrote, “six days before the DAYS of passover”— “DAYS” stressed! You should know the Greek word for ‘days’-plural is not or ‘adzumos’, but ‘hehmerohn’– Genitive Plural of ‘hehmera’ the Greek word for ‘day’ Singular. That now—, ‘hehmerohn’, IS, where YOU, certainly confuses the Greek word ‘adzumos’ Singular, for the first “DAY” of seven for eating ULB which , you—in your confusion and ignorance—have not even noticed in fact IS, in <(t)he Greek according to Interlinear Scripture Analyzer … John 12:1.> Must we really buy your faked Rubies, dear Rubies? 65

Rubies: In that climate, speed was of the essence in burial.

GE: was overruled by Roman law and Divine intervention. “Because it was not possible …(for) the Holy One of Thee to see corruption … his soul was not left in hell [while living, He suffered death] neither saw his flesh corruption [in dying the death of death or in death]”.

Reg: Hello Gerard and all you others that believe evening begins at 3pm there are 4 time periods in the Passover that have to be accounted foe they are 1) John 12:1--- 6 days 2) 2) Ex 12:3----6 days 3) 3) Mat 12:40 ----3 days 4) Mark 14:1,1---- 2 days 5) These texts cover every day from John 12:1 to Mat 28:1 more then all your post you have posted from page 1 with your renderings from the same time period text only you only have 9 days to account for …… Friday He arrived at Bethany and Mark 14:1,2 was Thursday

GE: Ag ja … Yes, and was not NEAR at when on Therefore “six days before the Days (of ULB) of Passover” John 12:1, He “visited Lazarus where he stayed in Bethany” on the Sabbath. But Mark 14:1,2 “after two days was the FEAST of the passover” on the next Friday the fifteenth day of the First Month, worked out that two days before it was Wednesday. Wednesday and Thursday are two days before Friday the Feast. 66

Reg: Now read the next post Tuesday making Thursday Passover …… Sabbath is 10th 14th day at even is the 15th.14 .13. 12 . 11 10. The day after preparation = Passover is 15th Thursday. Mark 14:1,2 is Tuesday making Thursday also Passover 3) MT 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.—begins eve of 15th at the death of the lamb Jesus died after sunset Wednesday Jesus died after sunset Wednesday

GE: Reg, and now, ! You are wasting everybody’s time and you are taking advantage of everybody's civility. And STOP contradicting Jesus and STOP saying ! He died three hours before, sunset “the ninth hour” of the “twelve hours a day has”. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p186 Alex: the same Jewish God Creator of Heaven and Earth is G-d overall but may not necessarily be the god of the Talmud.

GE: According to WCs God the Creator of Heaven and Earth is a , false god. But G-d according to WCs is the Creator of Heaven and Earth. Now what makes G-d the true God and what makes God a false god other than a hyphen? The hyphen makes God G-d and therefore the true god…

Alex: 67

The God of the OT is not the god of the Talmud. God the Creator of Heaven and Earth is not a false ‘god’ but is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Settling on a day of crucifixion does not change that fact.

GE: Amen! Alleluia! Away with all this G-d stuff! Imagine we should all speak like that, 'G-d','L-rd','-lm-ght-',' l--m'... If ever there was hypocrisy this is it! And it exclusively is a WC thing!---WC graffiti! Abominable! Even more unbelievable, these WCs and 'Name'- daft, it seems, cannot take exception or be insulted -- so holy are they in their own estimation!

Rubies: SABBATON : In the Greek, this word is not, as many suppose, actually the plural form of “Sabbath”. W. E. Vine M.A. says in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, SABBATH: 1. SABBATON or SABBATA : The latter, the plural form, was transliterated from the Aramaic word, which was mistaken for a plural; hence, the SINGULAR, SABBATON, was formed from it.. “In the Epistles the only direct mentions are in Col 2:16, “a Sabbath day,” R.V.(which rightly has the singular SABBATON, see paragraph 1 above), where it is listed among things that were “a shadow of the things to come”(i.e. of the age introduced at Pentecost), and in Heb 4:4-11, where the perpetual SABBATISMOS is appointed for believers (see REST); inferential references are in Rom 14:5 and Gal 4:9-11. For the first 3 centuries of the Christian era the first day of the week was never confounded with the Sabbath; the confusion of the Jewish and Christian institutions was due to declension from apostolic teaching. “NOTES: (1) In Matt 12:1 & 11, where the PLURAL {SABBASIN} is used, the A.V.(as the R.V.) rightly has the singular, “the 68

Sabbath day;” in Matt 12:5 the AV has the plural (see above). “Where the singular is used the RV omits the word “day,” Matt 12:2; 24:20; Mark 6:2; Luke 6:1 (“on a Sabbath”); Mark 14:3; John 9:14 (“It was a Sabbath on the day when ...”). “As to the use or omission of the article, the omission does not always require rendering “A” Sabbath; it is absent, e.g. in Matt 12:2.” So Mr Vine shows that the word SABBATON is truly the singular, NOT the plural for Sabbath. The plural word is SABBATA or SABBASIN.

GE: Most glaring blunder is your own self-contradictory statement, . Now your quoting Vine, Vine says . Vine says , actually is a Singular. Is the poor man mentis corpus? Rubies parrots more or less, no, . Ironically Rubies is the one correct and her authority is a Master of Arts, M.A. in deception. Rubies is correct, ‘sabbata’ is Plural—Accusative Plural from ‘sabbatoi’ Nominative Plural from Nominative Singular ‘sabbatos’. But both Rubies and M.A. Vine are LYING. Here you both, LIE, Rubies! . You are LYING because in Colossians 2:16 the word used is the Plural Genitive, ‘sabbatohn’ — “of Sabbaths” which CANNOT be 69

anything or be mistranslated with the non- existent word in Colossians. ‘Sabbatohn’ in Colossians is unmistakably the Plural Genitive “OF SABBATHS’ Feast”— “Feast” Singular—the . You are LYING because the Greek word ‘sabbatismos’ occurs only once in the NT in Hebrews 4:9. ‘Sabbatismos’ comes from ‘sabbatos’ from the Hebrew word for the Sabbath, ‘shabbath’, which the Greek suffix, ‘–ismos’ was added onto to express the idea of “a Sabbath-ism” or “a keeping-of-the- Sabbath Day”. You are both LYING claiming . ‘sabbatismos’ does not occur even in Colossians. And you are both LYING because the reference is not to the “Sabbatism”—‘sabbatismos’, but to “The Seventh Day God [from the creation] thus concerning spoke: And God the day The Seventh Day from all his works, rested.” And you are both LYING because it is said in verse 8b of THIS “The Seventh Day” that “God will not speak of another day [‘hehmera’]” or another ‘sabbath’ or another day of SALVATION than the one in which “JESUS gave them (the People of God) REST”—God’s eternal “REST”—the ‘katapausis’ of GOD’S SALVATION IN AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. “Let us therefore labour to enter into THAT REST”—‘eis ekeinehn tehn katapausin’—the Rest of God in Christ. It does NOT say, ‘Let us labour to enter the Sabbath’, OR, ‘Let us labour to enter into a keeping of the Sabbath Day’—‘sabbatismos’. NO! But BEWARE “lest any man fall after the same EXAMPLE OF UNBELIEF”! The “example” can be and usually is the example of “the People of God’s”, “unbelief” in GOD (1); and “unbelief” in the REST of God (2); and UNBELIEF in and transgression of “the Seventh Day … Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD’S”, “REST”! (3). 70

God does not swop his Sabbath Day for another, ever; God is unchangeable; so is “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”. After the ten thousandth time I have had to make observations like this one about the sanctity and validity of the Sabbath Jesus The Son of Man is the Lord of, my soul is crying out in bitterness and frustration because of the UNBELIEF of people who assume they are The People of God – today’s so called Christians who actually worship their day they chose above the Lord’s Day.

. Rubies: All NT mentions : SABBATA :{Plural} Acts 17:2. “Paul reasoned on 3 Sabbaths.” SABBASIN :{Plural} Matt 12:1, 5, 10, 11, 12 Mark 1:21; 2:23, 24; 3:2, 4 Luke 4:31; 6:2, 9; 13:10. SABBATO :{Singular} Matt 12:2; 24:20 Luke 6:1, 6, 7; 13:14, 15; 14:1, 3 John 5:16; 7:22; 23 x 2; 19:31 Acts 13:44 SABBATOU :{Singular} Matt 12:8 Mark 2:28; 6:2; 16:1, 9 Luke 6:5; 13:14, 16; 14:5; 18:12 John 19:31 Acts 1:12 SABBATON:{Singular} Matt 12:5 Mark 2:27x2 Luke 23:54, 56 John 5:9, 10, 18; 9:14, 16 Acts 13:27, 42; 15:21; 18:4 TON SABBATON; “of the Week;” “of Sabbath” Matt 28:1 Mark 16:2 1 Cor 16:2 Col 2:16 PROSABBATON :{Singular} Mark 15:42 SABBATON = Week : Matt 28:1 Mar 16:2, 9 Luke 18:12; 24:1 John 20:1, 19 Acts 20:7 1 Cor 16:2

GE: So? ‘Judged’ correctly. Not ‘funny’; ‘nuts’! Just look at this, < SABBATON = Week : Matt 28:1 Mar 16:2, 9 Luke 18:12; 24:1 John 20:1, 19 Acts 20:7 1 Cor 16:2> Matthew 28:1 is Genitive Plural— Greek IDIOM of / for 71

“Sabbath (Day of the week)”. Mark 16:9 is Genitive Singular; Luke 24:1 John 20:1 Acts 20:7 are Genitive Plural— CHRISTIAN Greek IDIOM of / for “the First Day of the week”. Luke 18:12 Genitive Singular—world-wide IDIOM of / for “week”. Look at Mark 15:42, it has “The Preparation which is The Fore-Sabbath”—it does not even have, SABBATA, SABBATON whatever NONSENSE! It has ‘prosabbaton’ Nominative Singular of ‘prosabbaton’—not of ‘sabbaton’! What a WASTE OF TIME AND ENERGY—God-given energy wasted on egocentric SHOWING-OFF!

Rubies As Jesus was our Firstfruits, His resurrection must have occurred on the Day of Firstfruits; that is, on SUNDAY, the day AFTER the Sabbath, as scripture clearly states. That is the only possible way that the Lord's arithmetic –”50 days from the Sabbath during ULB to the day following the 7th Sabbath”… can possibly be computed! It is clear that the Wave-sheaf comes AFTER Passover. COGs, I find, demean the Resurrection and glorify the DEATH of the Messiah. This is tragic! It is the resurrection which is the victory of Jesus over sin and death, and the crowning glory of our faith! 1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been RAISED FROM THE DEAD, the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep. So Jesus was resurrected on the Day of Barley Firstfruits, which is the day FOLLOWING the Sabbath during ULB. Lev 23:11 He shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, so that you may be accepted. On the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it.

GE: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p195 You say the truth, then lie directly against it. You said, You said, which was the “sabbath … to its SEASON”— “season” of Feast— “passover” : … “the sabbath to its SEASON” … “the sabbath” of … “the sabbath” of the Feast … “the sabbath” of “passover”! It is “the day after the sabbath”— ; It is “the day after the sabbath”— “to its SEASON”; It is “the day after the sabbath”– “first day seven days eat ulb”; It is “the day after the sabbath”— “Feast / Days of ULB”; It is “the day after the sabbath”— “passover”. From every angle First Sheaf is Waved “the day after the sabbath”— SEASON OF PASSOVER and not “The Sabbath”— “Rest Day-of-the-week”: ‘sabbatohn’. Rubies said it. Rubies belies her own words which were “as words of God”; now are words of a lying self-willed obstinate hypocrite. From Rubies’ false stance, the impression is created that the First Sheaf was always waved on the same day of the week, the First Day of the week, “the day after the (Seventh Day) Sabbath”—according to her. As if was the Seventh Day Sabbath! As if the Seventh Day Sabbath was always the second day of passover and first day of ulb! As if the Seventh Day Sabbath always and not only coincidentally happened to fall on ; As if the passover and First-Sheaf’s “rest-day / sabbath” was identically the Seventh Day Sabbath; But the Seventh Day Sabbath was not fixed “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”; it was not . was fixed “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”; ALWAYS 73

—regardless on which day of the week it fell—, fell “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”. “On the day after the sabbath” of the passover , “the priest shall wave the first sheaf” --- regardless on which day of the week.

Rubies: His resurrection must have occurred on the Day of Firstfruits; that is, on SUNDAY, the day AFTER the Sabbath, as scripture clearly states. That is the only possible way that the Lord's arithmetic –”50 days from the Sabbath during ULB to the day following the 7th Sabbath”… can possibly be computed!

GE: Ja, it’s after you have made it the only possible way with your SCREAMING LIE, ! But you cover over with the debris from your life- long trash-accumulation where the same ‘floating sabbath’ “to its season” in its usual setting and order is described with “seven sevens (of days)” and the “count” is started “on the day the sickle is put to the corn”—any day of the week it always would be— on the day after “the day after the sabbath” of the passover— on any day of the week which “YE”– the Jews –”proclaimed”—not God! “The day after the sabbath” of the passover of course was the day upon which the First Sheaf was waved before the LORD, on the 16th day of the month; and “the day the sickle is put to the corn” formally starting the harvest was the day AFTER “the day after the sabbath” OF THE PASSOVER. In other words, full-time harvesting began on the 17th day of the First Month. Deuteronomy 16 and Leviticus 23 do not differ; they are different because they refer to different days of passover period. Leviticus refers to and explains and uses for example, the EXODUS-passover. At the exodus passover the day they killed the passover was the fourteenth day of the First Month. 74

Now --- exactly because it was the ONLY EVER, FIRST, Passover of Yahweh and the third day after was “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath REST Day OF THE LORD GOD” which for that very reason was written into the Fourth Commandment --- for seven weeks after “the day after the sabbath” of the passover happened to be “the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”. That is why Leviticus uses the words, “seven SABBATHS are counted from the day after the (great day) sabbath” of the passover— beginning to count with and on the historic first Seventh Day Sabbath “the day after the sabbath” of the passover as later instituted “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”. Rubies do not only pervert the language of the passover Scriptures; she perverts every aspect of the historic truth of the event of the first --- and, subsequent --- passovers until the last ever and last Passover of Jesus Christ on earth.

Rubies: Now, the Lord tells us to count “7 complete sabbaths” or “7 full weeks” from THIS day!

GE: Not so! The Torah tells us in Leviticus 23, to BEGIN count “7 complete SABBATHS”-weeks, from the first “day after the sabbath” of the passover—which HAPPENED to be the Seventh Day Sabbath AT THE EXODUS in Exodus 10 to 15. But the Torah tells us in Deuteronomy 16 to BEGIN count <7 full WEEKS>-of “seven(day)s”, “from the day ye put the sickle to the corn”—not as you claim in Leviticus 23 the Seventh Day Sabbath! Therefore –<50 days from the (Seventh Day) Sabbath during ULB to the day following the 7th Sabbath>, is Rubies’ --not . 75

Rubies: That is – 50 DAYS from the Sabbath, the day before the wave-sheaf. The day following a series of 7 Sabbaths can ONLY be Sunday! Therefore, 7 full weeks = 49 days before this – the Day of Firstfruits – the day of Christ's Resurrection – can ONLY be Sunday! This double count of 49 weeks + 1 day from a Sabbath = 50 days which is the day after a Sabbath, is absolute proof that both Feasts of Firstfruits – both Barley and Wheat – were invariably on SUNDAYS. No matter what the Pharisees or COGs or Gerhard say. Lev 23:15 “You shall count 7 full weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering. 16 You shall count 50 days to the day after the 7th Sabbath. Then you shall present a grain offering of new grain to the LORD.” We must necessarily arrive at a SUNDAY for Pentecost, being the day following the 7th Sabbath : Using Huie's dates : 17th Nisan = SABBATH during ULB.

GE: There is no logic, no system, no , no consistency —no sense in your spinning. The first passover at the exodus from Egypt forms the background for the Leviticus statutory provisions and institutionalisation of this first of all formal feasts observed during the history of “The Children of Israel” within the land of Canaan. The much later Deuteronomy 16 record of the passover, again, depends on the long-established and accustomed Leviticus- institution with its integrated feast of weeks up to Pentecost. But the Deuteronomy institution is purely agricultural and does not “count” or culminate to the religious climax at Pentecost which Leviticus focused on at the time of the giving of the Law. In Deuteronomy the harvest is the feast “counted” and culminated with the feast of tabernacles, “seven days, after thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine”. 76

Deuteronomy brings the winter and summer harvests together in three annual feasts of … 1) the Incarnation of the Son of God “in the feast of tabernacles… rejoice in thy feast… seven days”; 2) the Suffering of Christ “in the feast of unleavened bread” the Passover of Yahweh; 3) the Resurrection of Christ “in the feast of weeks” culminating in the Jubilee and Supper of “LEAVENED LOAVES” OF “BREAD OF LIFE”, “NEW IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD”. All three these feasts converged in Jesus Christ—and all three respectively converged in Christ on the same day of “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”, “God THUS CONCERNING, spake.” The last “meal prepared for Him”—Jesus, was on the Sabbath “six days before the Feast Days’”, “first day of seven days ulb.” John 12:1,12; “Christ rose from the dead the third day…”, “on the Sabbath”. Matthew 27:64; 28:1. A basic mistake which expositors of the Pentecost-Scriptures like Rubies, make, is to begin to count the ‘seven weeks’ with the last day of each “seven-days-week” instead of with its first day. They use multiplication where the Scriptures say, “count”—from the first day to the last of the 49— Deuteronomy, or, 50 days--Leviticus. Another basic mistake on the expositors’ account is that they never distinguish between Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy 16, but instead, identify them. Leviticus 23 stipulates “seven weeks-of-sabbaths” by beginning each “sabbath’s-week” with the Seventh Day of the week Sabbath. In Leviticus 23:16 “seven weeks-of-Sabbaths” (7x7 Sabbaths) to “the day after the seventh of seven weeks-of-Sabbaths fifty days” were counted, BEGINNING on and with the first “Sabbath”---seven times. In Leviticus therefore, the Sabbath 77

Seventh Day of the week was “the day after the sabbath”, “to its season”, and was “counted”, ‘day 1’. Leviticus 23 indicates the “seven weeks-of-sabbaths” with the “Sabbath” Seventh Day of the week. Deuteronomy 16 though, indicates “seven sevens” or ‘seven weeks’, or “seven sevens”-of-days—of WORKING days! Each “seven of seven (days)” BEGAN with a working or ‘week-day’, unlike in Leviticus where each “week-of-seven(- days)” was a “Sabbath’s-week-of-seven(-days)”, having historically at the exodus been the Seventh Day of the week “Sabbath”. At and after the exodus (in Exodus and Leviticus), was “the sabbath to its season”— its passover– “season” and “the day after the sabbath” was— historically—the “Sabbath of the LORD”. Leviticus 23:3,38. No longer was the Seventh Day Sabbath the marker and beginner of each of the “seven Sabbaths of weeks” or “seven weeks of Sabbaths” in Deuteronomy! Now “the DAY after the sabbath … to its season” of the passover, was any day of the week which BEGAN each of the “seven sevens(-of-weeks)” or “seven weeks” –of-any-days. Deuteronomy generalises the “weeks”, simply calling the first day of every “sevens(-of- days)”, “the day you shall put the sickle to the corn” and begin the harvest for 7x7=49 days. “Pentecost fully come” was on the Sabbath at Sinai : “fifty days counted from the (SABBATH) DAY after the rest-day- sabbath / burial-day-sabbath” of the First Sheaf which was 1) “cut… on the day that you reap(ed) the corners of your field… (and was) lifted high… and was carried up… and was brought to… the Priest… on the BONE-DAY… the fourteenth day of the First Month”; and Leviticus 23:21,22; 8,10,11. 2) “On the fifteenth day of the First Month”, on “the sabbath- rest-day … to its season” of the First Sheaf [Jesus’ Burial day], the First Sheaf [Jesus] was lying in state in the sanctuary under the watchful eye of the priest. 3) “On the sixteenth day of the First Month they FINISHED to 78 cleanse the House of the LORD” and the First Sheaf was brought in, and was “WAVED BEFORE THE LORD”, “in the Most Holy Place of the LORD.” 2Chronicles 29:17. “On the eighth day of the month they came to the porch of the LORD [Jesus arrives in Bethany]. So they sanctified the House of the LORD in eight days. “—[Jesus’ Last Week-of- Pascha-Suffering.] “And in the sixteenth day of the First Month they MADE AN END. Then they went to Hezekiah THE KING [“before the LORD”], and said, We have CLEANSED ALL THE HOUSE OF THE LORD” …Jesus Christ Resurrected from the dead. The expositors also do not treat “the week” in the OT any different from the ‘week’ in the NT and in contemporary thinking. The world today think of the week as the seven days from Sunday to Saturday; and in the New Testament the week was, “the First”, the Second, until the “Sabbath Day” or “Seventh Day”. But in the Torah and until the Christian era, a ‘hebdomas-week’ in fact was simply any seven days in succession and was mainly used, specifically for ‘ceremonial’, ‘holy days’.

Rubies: 18th Nisan = Wave-sheaf on SUNDAY = 1 day 1st Sabbath AFTER WAVE-SHEAF = 24th Nisan = 7 days 2nd Sabbath = 1st Iyyar = 14 days 3rd Sabbath = 8th Iyyar = 21 days 4th Sabbath = 15th Iyyar = 28 days 5th Sabbath = 22nd Iyyar = 35 days 6th Sabbath = 29th Iyyar = 42 days 7th Sabbath = 7th Sivan = 49 days The day AFTER the 7th Sabbath = 8th Sivan = 50 days from the Sabbath during ULB. SHAVUOT = the day AFTER the 7th Sabbath Feast of Weeks (Pentecost)= Sunday 8th SIVAN. Sabbath 17 Nisan + 50 days = 8 SIVAN. 79

But Huie's “7 Sabbaths” comes to 1 SIVAN. That is only 43 days! This proves his theory false. His interpretation of “DEUTEROPROTOS” is therefore wrong. His interpretation of “the first day of the week” (in Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19) as “one of the 7 sabbaths” is false. The traditional view was correct all along – which is, that Jesus rose as our Wave-sheaf, presented before the Lord so that we may be accepted, on the day after the Sabbath, “on the first day of the week.” NOT as Huie has it, “On the first weekly Sabbath between Passover and Pentecost.” . GE: Again, you are your LYING SELF! It is NOT --- , a seventh Day Sabbath! It is “from the DAY after the sabbath”--- of the passover --- WHICHEVER day ‘of the week’, because it was the passover’s “sabbath TO ITS SEASON”: “on the fifteenth day of the First MONTH”! It was “the day after the sabbath” of “the MONTH of Abib”: “Observe the MONTH of Abib”, observe its “days”, “proclaimed” to be “observed”—MONTH’S “days” DATED, “new moon” the first day of the First Month; its “tenth day”, “the fourteenth day”, “the fifteenth day”, “the sixteenth day”, “the one and twentieth day”. “The day after the sabbath DAY” OF the passover IN the MONTH of the passover “TO ITS SEASON” in the year— “begin count the day after the sabbath”—‘annual sabbath’. If it so happened “the day after the sabbath” was the Sabbath of the LORD, then the Sabbath of the LORD was day 1 of 7 times 7 days-weeks counted. 7 times 7 days-weeks never were counted, as you have it, , but “from the day after the sabbath”—the “sabbath” of passover the day before the wave-sheaf! It always was: “Count from the DAY 80 after the sabbath”— “the sabbath” during which the First Sheaf was kept inside before the priest brought it out and waved it before the LORD. The passover’s “sabbath” was Jesus our Passover’s “sabbath-rest” in the grave. Jesus’ passover– “sabbath-rest” in the grave is pictured by Isaiah as Jesus’ death’s FAST in chapter 57 from which God on His Holy Day “RESTED HIM UP AGAIN HIS NAME BEING THE MOST HOLY PLACE”: “on the heights of the earth” BEFORE THE LORD in chapter 58. No one has noticed that the Law was not given fifty days after the passover’s ‘sabbath” on the fifteenth day of the First Month. Everybody has always been blind to the actual events of the fiftieth day after “the fifteenth day of the First Month- sabbath”. On the fiftieth day after “the fifteenth day of the First Month- sabbath” of passover God revealed Himself as the HOLY SPIRIT and only three days after ‘Pentecost’, did He give his Law-in-stones. IT WAS THE FIRST passover which Jesus Christ was the perfect anti-type of. It was followed by “seven weeks-of-SABBATHS” so that “the day after the seventh of (the) Sabbath-weeks” again fell on the real Sabbath on the Seventh Day of the week. God once again revealed Himself as the HOLY SPIRIT on ‘Pentecost-SABBATH’. Not Huie or whoever or Rubies took this into account. Not Huie or Rubies or Huiever can get it right therefore.

Rubies: Huie writes, “There was an annual date just after Passover at the time of Yeshua known as the “First Sabbath”; this was the first weekly Sabbath after the Passover high Sabbath. “One of the Sabbaths,” mentioned by all of the Gospel writers (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19), refers to this very “First Sabbath”! When English translators render the Greek text as “first day of the week,” they do so because of tradition. The most logical translation would be the most literal: 'One of 81 the Sabbaths.' “... Furthermore, it's likely that the “first day of the week,” Sunday, is NEVER even mentioned in the Greek New Testament. “May God help us to put away the traditions of men and obey His Torah!” So here, Huie is mistaken, and the traditional view is correct. He has misrepresented the Greek translations to support his case, and has been caught out by the simple fact that 7 weeks + 1 day = 50 days between the Sabbath during ULB and Pentecost on Sunday, whereas his scheme has only 42 days from Wave-sheaf to Pentecost. In fact, it is the COG doctrine which is the “traditions of men” that we need to “put away”! And in what way does he think he is obeying the Torah? The Jews know that without a Temple and a priesthood, much of the Torah (the full 5 books of Moses) is in abeyance. They also know that the Torah was given only to ethnic Israelites and circumcised proselytes to the Mosaic Covenant, to be observed in their own land.

GE: Yes, Huie is mistaken; but so are you, Rubies. If there was , this must have been : IN JOHN 19:31! SO BY MY KOOL! What a brilliant ruby discovered! I just hope it’s genuine! Huie is wrong with his references to . But John 19:31 is the perfect fit. Because “that day great day of sabbath” in John 19:31 “was the Preparation”—in fact, “the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath” or “Preparation of the Jews” in Mark 15:42 John 19:42 which was BOTH “when they KILLED the passover”, AND, was on which Joseph the day before the 82 weekly Sabbath, had the body of Jesus buried. Luke 23:54 John 19:42. Yippee! My day has been made! Wish I knew more about this . Huie is mistaken—I can nevertheless say—in that he presupposes ONE DAY IN BETWEEN that and .

Kevin: Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. What day is the morrow after the sabbath? Lev. 23 is plain, seven "shabbaths" shall be complete. A "shabbath" can not be from Tuesday to Tuesday, it can only be from Sabbath to Sabbath. So Lev. 23:16 does indeed say that the fiftieth day is always on the day after the Sabbath. It does not fall on any day of the week as the Jews count.

GE: This is Leviticus based on Exodus 12-14.

Kevin: You keep insisting here that the hebrew word "shabbath" means weeks, it does not. A shabbath can not be from Tuesday to Tuesday or from Friday to Friday. Shabbath either means the Sabbath or theseven day period from one Sabbath to another. It never means Tuesday to Tuesday. So the seven sabbaths - weeks must be counted from the weekly sabbath for the 50th day to fall after the seventh "shabbath".

GE: This is Kevin PRESUPPOSING Leviticus / Exodus STILL. 83

Kevin, please go read Deuteronomy 16 where it presupposes “sevens-weeks” which fell on any 7 days in succession of the “Sabbath-week” as presupposed in Leviticus. I made it plain more than once. Levitus / Exodus presupposed reaches from the RELIGIOUS observance of passover to the RELIGIOUS observance of Shavuot. It is THEREFORE, based on the HISTORIC religious event of the exodus when Israel finished the third of the “three days darkness” ON THE SABBATH, “the day after the sabbath” (as instituted when Israel was settled in Canaan) : and the Sabbath Seventh Day of the week was “the day after the sabbath” of the passover-exodus and the day the count of seven “Sabbaths-weeks” had to be started WITH. But Deuteronomy 16 presupposes nothing historical or religious, and only deals with agricultural dates and days of harvest—hence the “ANY-seven-days-of-the-week” demarcation to just 49 days, and not to the additional (religious) day after as in Leviticus. So, I do not deny the “weeks” in Deuteronomy <>. And I DO NOT CALL them <> as you claim I do.

Kevin: Deut. must agree with Leviticus, and it is Leviticus that calls the seven "shabbaths", not you. So I don't care if Deut. says seven sevens, it must agree with Leviticus which says seven shabbaths. Seven shabbaths are seven sevens, but seven Tuesdays to Tuesdays are not seven shabbaths. Your and the Jews starting the 50 day count with the first day of Unleavened bread, the 15th of abib is unbiblical whether you like it or not.

GE: Are you claiming Deuteronomy contradicts Leviticus? 84

I do not. And you are mistaken totally, claiming, <<… the Jews starting the 50 day count with the first day of Unleavened bread, the 15th of abib>>— They don’t; the Jews start the 50 day count “the day AFTER” <> WHICH IS “the sabbath” Leviticus 23:11,15,16 mention. It’s hard to kick against the pricks of the facts, hey, buddy? It takes humbleness, courage and character, to admit mistake --- very precious and scares commodities indeed… Re: <…the Jews starting the 50 day count> is an incorrect statement. They did not count <50 days>; they counted “seven sevens (of days/weeks)’—‘seven hebdomas’. And when as usual when they harvested, they counted “seven sevens”, they counted just that and no day more after. Israel according to passover Law, Torah, ALWAYS started to count the “seven weeks-of-seven days” of harvesting—to harvest was “SERVILE work”—, NOT “from (on) the day after the sabbath” of the passover as in Leviticus / Exodus, BUT, “FROM THE DAY…” they actually and full time for the servile work of harvesting every day for the next seven weeks, “…PUT THE SICKLE TO THE CORN”! Now of course when “the sabbath” of the passover (Abib 15) —AS to the analogy of the exodus found in Leviticus—, happened to fall on a Sixth Day of the week, then, “the day after the sabbath” (of Abib 15 the ‘passover-sabbath’), would be the Seventh Day Sabbath (Abib 16). In such cases, “the sickle (was) put to the corn” on the First Day on Abib 17 for the first full day of harvesting. Otherwise (normally), harvesting as well as the count of the “seven weeks” would begin no matter which day of the week, on Abib 16 “the day after the sabbath” of the passover Abib 15, again, regardless the day of the week. For that “first day” [*Deuteronomy 16:4] and for the next “seven weeks” or 49 days, the harvest would go on. Theoretically therefore, the last day of harvesting could 85 be a Seventh Day Sabbath; but because no servile work was allowed on it, the harvest had had to be completed on the Sixth Day before the Seventh Day Sabbath—AS happened in Leviticus to the analogy of the exodus. “The day after the seven weeks” of harvest thus “counted”, then also happened to be a Seventh Day Sabbath. But Pentecost, like all passover days and dates, eventually also occurred “according to its season” on any day of the week.

Kevin: You are confused about the counting of fifty days. The Jews count from the morrow after the annual sabbath of Unleavened Bread but the problem with that method of counting is that it does not always bring you 50 days later to a morrow after a sabbath. It does not say the morrow after the seventh week, it says that Pentecost is to be the morrow after the sabbath.

GE: In Leviticus “seven sabbaths’-weeks” = 7 x 7 days-weeks determined by its first day counted which was the Seventh Day Sabbath for which reason Leviticus uses “Sabbaths” to describe the 7 groups of 7 days each of which BEGAN with a 7th day “Sabbath”—in Leviticus, where the 7 x “sabbaths'- weeks” must be counted “FROM the day after the sabbath” OF THE PASSOVER, whichever day of the week it might have fallen upon. In Leviticus which mirrors the exodus passover, “the day after the sabbath” HAPPENED TO BE the Sabbath commanded to be kept for reason that it was the day on which God had brought Israel “in into the land which (He) sware”. Now Leviticus 23:16 declared, “including the day after the- seventh sabbaths'-week, you shall count fifty days.” It does NOT say, the fiftieth day--Pentecost . You are wrong, Kenneth. Leviticus specifies the last unit of seven days which was a “Sabbath-Day-unit-of- 86 seven-days”. Thus it is WRITTEN. Sorry. But that is God’s Written Word.

Kevin: It does not say the morrow after the seventh week, it says that Pentecost is to be the morrow after the sabbath.

GE: Where does it say that?! It does not. READ Leviticus 23:16. In Hebrew “after the SEVENTH-shabbath”—‘shebii-shabbath’.

Kevin: The prophecy says that he will cause the sacrifice and oblations to cease, which Jesus' death did. That does not mean he can't reinstate them at some point in the future. So my argument does not collapse. I have no idea why he would reinstate them, but as you say Ezekiel prophecies seem to say he does.

GE: If any sacrifice will have to be “reinstated” it will have to be Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. WHICH MEANS YOU NEGATE THAT CHRIST “OFFERED HIMSELF A SACRIFICE ONCE FOREVER”. You CANNOT understand Ezekiel correct if that is what you understand him to say. Why not just admit you do not and or cannot understand Ezekiel? It most definitely is not going to cost you your salvation.

Larry: In the case of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:7, Num 28:18) and the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev 23:35), the first day and the seventh day of the ceremony were to be sacred. As these two ceremonies were held on a specific day of the month, the day of the week on which they were held would change from year to year. See the following links for 87 the current years on which these ceremonies will be held. These texts have no bearing on the question of which day of the week is to be kept sacred. These were/are ceremonial sabbaths as opposed to the weekly sabbath. On the first day of the ceremony, a convocation was held and on the last day of the ceremony, a convocation was held, at the beginning and the end.

GE: Those days are not said to be <>. And only “the fifteenth day of the First Month” is called “the sabbath” of the passover in only Leviticus 23:11,25,16; and only in the NT in John 19:31 is called “That Day … great day sabbath” --- of the passover. Did you know that “That Day” had “the, very, special”, “NAME” : “the_NAME_of_the_day”, of, “the SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY” in which “THE BLOODY CITY … in the same day they defiled My Sanctuary” crucified and killed Jesus Christ at the last passover? Ezekiel 24:2; 23:38! Did you know “That Day” is found specifically demarcated and indicated in the Gospels as the day Joseph BURIED the body of Jesus on? Here… From Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38, Luke 23:50 to John 19:42 “by the time of the Jews’ preparation” (for the Sabbath of the LORD) and Luke 23:54, “mid-afternoon the Sabbath (according to the (Fourth) Commandment) nearing”. Did you know these things? Well let me tell you something you also have not known before you came on to this forum discussion: EVERYBODY HERE, HATES THESE TRUTHS WITH ALL THEIR BEING.

Rubies: Huie writes : “The Good Friday/Easter Sunday proponents' 88 contention that “the Preparation Day” ONLY refers to Friday is clearly unsupportable.

GE: The assumption that … ONLY , is of course absolute nonsense! Friday Crossites have NEVER resorted to this preposterousness before the WCs started with it --- ALSO just about the beginning of this, the 21st century AD. … but now that I think of it ---isn’t this exactly what Rubies has been advocating at the hand of her ‘hetoimadzia’-philosophy?! IT IS!

. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p187 Huie: As the Wednesday burial/Sabbath morning resurrection chronology above shows, this “Preparation Day of the Passover” (John 19:14) would have been Wednesday, Nisan 14 (see the Jewish calendar for 30 CE to verify this date).

Rubies: There is nothing “clearly insupportable” about the fact that PARASKEUE is the Greek name for FRIDAY.

GE: Yes, ‘paraskeueh’ ; every person in his right mind knows that. But every person in his right mind will also know that ‘paraskeueh’ in the right CONTEXT. Because any person in his right mind will not just use the passages where ‘paraskeueh’ is used for OTHER things and days than the Sixth Day “Preparation of the Jews” for the Sabbath as in John 19:42 and Luke 23:54, to wrap his sandwiches in and throw them away afterwards. Because any person in his right mind 89 can SEE that “the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath” is Friday, but “the Preparation OF THE Passover” more than 24 hours before on the day before at least 12 hours before “it had become evening already the Preparation which is the Fore- Sabbath” in Mark 15:42, IS THE “Preparation of the passover” the Fifth Day of the week the day BEFORE Friday.

Rubies: There is nothing “clearly insupportable” about the fact that …. if 14 Nisan was called “the Preparation Day of the Passover,” then it would be called “HETOIMASIA,” as all 9 references to the Passover being PREPARED, use the word HETOIMAZO, not paraskeue.

GE: Now what are you saying?! Are you saying ? Or are you saying ? THEN WHY IS “the Preparation Day of the Passover” NOT , but “the Preparation Day of the Passover”, ?! And why is—according to faked Rubies— to say the least! More … Truth is, as I showed months ago, is not in one single in the whole of the New Testament used as a Substantive or Nomen as in the Name of a day (of the week). NOT ONCE! In fact, ‘hehtoimadzoh’—‘to prepare’, is only used in Verb-form or in Verbal-function --- ten different declensions or inflections, call it what you like, but it never a Noun— supposed to be! “Tell them which are bidden, I have PREPARED my dinner; my oxen and my fatlings are KILLED and all things MADE READY.” Matthew 22:4 90

---‘hehtoimaka’; ‘hehtoimasa’. [Shhht … don’t let her hear, but how she manufactured this faked ruby of hers, , only she could tell.]

Rubies: Another major flaw in Huie's paper is that he fails to deal with the fact that the disciples PREPARED THE PASSOVER on the DAY OF ULB ON WHICH THE LAMBS MUST BE KILLED.

GE: Yes, is, the disciples But as I have many times over several months and years now before shown, the disciples did not prepare the passover. Just recently I again have showed it, http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-d... #1588 in answer to Reg. All that the Greek says in Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 and Luke 22:7 is that it was “on the first day ‘adzumos’—(of passover, the fourteenth day of the First Month)—WITHOUT LEAVEN // leaven (was) REMOVED” Exodus 12:15a— which is the same thing as “when they KILLED the passover” on the same day.

Rubies: The thing that everyone misses is this : If 14 Nisan was actually called “Preparation day for the Passover,” whatever day of the week it was ... then WHAT WERE THE DISCIPLES DOING, PREPARING THE PASSOVER THE PREVIOUS DAY??? That makes no sense.

GE: Indeed that makes no sense what you ask. The text actually makes perfect sense. First you first TWISTED the text in order to suit your faked genuine fraud. The text is not, ! The text is, “it was The Preparation OF the Passover”—‘ehn Paraskeueh TOU Pascha’ which in the Torah is clearly DEFINED as the day on which Israel had to PREPARE the passover TO BE EATEN by … 1) “first of all (to) REMOVE leaven”, “in this that day to be observed solemnly”; then in the morning following “in this that day to be solemnly observed … the selfsame bone-day …(to) … 2) “REAP the corners of your field”; then to 3) “BRING the sheaf” (“that day” before the “third hour”); then

Rubies: The disciples did as they were commanded and PREPARED THE PASSOVER LAMB.

GE: Verbose bombastic false accuser of Jesus and the disciples and the Gospel writers of LYING! You, are doing the LYING!

Rubies: Another major flaw in Huie's paper is that he fails to deal with the fact that the disciples PREPARED THE PASSOVER on the DAY OF ULB ON WHICH THE LAMBS MUST BE KILLED. Nor that Jesus ATE the Passover after sunset that night! Luk 22:7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which THE PASSOVER LAMB HAD TO BE SACRIFICED. 8 So 92

Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and PREPARE THE PASSOVER FOR US, THAT WE MAY EAT IT.” . GE: So what you are saying is that Jesus and his disciples sat down to eat the lamb that was sacrificed already and roasted the lot ready to be eaten on the table at which they sat down to eat. So what you say comes down to saying, Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which THE PASSOVER LAMB HAD TO BE … EATEN!—NOT sacrificed— “KILLED”, but eaten! Expose yourself! Reveal your shame before everyone!

Rubies: If 14 Nisan was actually called “Preparation day for the Passover,” whatever day of the week it was ... then WHAT WERE THE DISCIPLES DOING, PREPARING THE PASSOVER THE PREVIOUS DAY???

GE: In practice 14 Nisan was actually the Preparation Day FOR, the Passover—for the Passover of Yahweh to be EATEN. But John actually called it “The Preparation OF Passover” IN THE GOSPEL—not, ? If you haven’t LIED so much, you would have understood and known. But now you again LIE, hypocritically ‘asking’ —meaning they did not, “prepare” but actually ate, No! But take your own words without the false cloak of your own intention, and you actually have uncovered the truth, that the disciples

PASSOVER LAMB>— OF GOD, YES! But the disciples were not . They prepared the passover or for the passover of JESUS, “ON the first day leaven (was) removed, (the day) when they always had to kill the passover (sacrifice).” Exodus 12:15. That was the Last Supper WAS FOR and WHY.

Rubies: So far, there is nothing in Huie's paper which is correct. How about his dating of the Passover 14 Nisan?

GE: So far, there is nothing in Rubies’ extensive papers which is correct. How about her dating of the Passover 14 Nisan with reference to the SDAs’ dating of it? There is nothing of concern about it here or anywhere as far as I, GE, am concerned. It’s a lot of humbug from any side considering … in any case.

Rubies: So far, there is nothing in Huie's paper which is correct. How about his dating of the Passover 14 Nisan?

GE: So further, all we get is what Rubies, further, LIES … <… Jesus and the disciples ate the passover _LAMB_> <“Friday” in Greek> [Sic.] , viz., before Friday. 94

<… it MUST have been the second Sabbath of Nisan> I just cannot understand why Rubies every time she puts her lips to paper has to LIE to make this so complicated! She stops at nothing, inventing all kinds of fanciful ploys to avoid the simple Bible truth, just because she wants to sell her selfish idolatrous Sunday doctrine.

Rubies: This of course means that Barley Firstfruits which is 49 days or 7 complete Sabbaths (that is, 7 full weeks) previous to Wheat Firstfrutis, also necessarily falls on the first day of the week every year. As the first day of the week floats through the DATES, neither of these feasts is ever dated in scripture.

GE: How do you TWIST the Scriptures! It is not ; it is as the incidental dated, human- “proclaimed”, ‘sabbaths’ through Israel’s history, at the metre of “The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”, floated through the since the creation existing and Divine- “ordained”, WEEK. You saying is the most stupid and most flagrant LIE I ever have come across!

Reg: These texts have a different time in the Spring arriving on Sunday from Jericho the Sunday triumphant entry into Jerusalem These texts Gerard especially John 12:1 to John 12:11 because Jesus had not yet reached Jerusalem until John 12:12 ---JN 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he 95 raised from the dead. it was the feast of dedication which was on the 25th of the 9th month Chislev our December what follows are Jesus last 3 months on Earth JN 10:30 I and my Father are one.---Jesus tells the Jews He and the Father are one, and they begin JN 11:7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again. These verses tells of a letter from Martha to Jesus that Lazarus was sick and would He come verses 6 and 7 now Gerard says was 3 months before winter and quotes John 11:7 as his proof John 10:22 to 12:1 is an accurate account of Christs last 3 months yet he says this is before John 10:22 So by Gerard’s reckoning Lazarus was taken ill 3 months before winter in the Fall no text evidence only John 11:7 which is after John 19:22 the feast of Dedication was in the 9th month on 25th to Lazarus JN 11:54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples. Read the whole story from John 10:22 to 12:1 This is Jesus last 3 months Gerard wrote Jesus arrived at Bethany the day before the day implied in John 21 in other words John 12:1 was not Friday but Sabbath The reason why it doesn’t fit HIS interpretation the bible says---John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.--- this is Friday to Wednesday = 6 days EX 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:---Sabbath 14th day at Even 6To Thursday = 6 days Mark 14:1,2 is Tuesday to Thursday 2 days Mathew 12:40 Thursday, Friday, Sabbath Mat 28:1 96

GE: I hear you, Reg. But I think you don’t hear me. You see, may be . Fine. So these last three months ended where He arrived in Bethany and “six days before Days of ULB visited Lazarus where he stayed in Bethany and they prepared for Him a meal”… lunch I would say. Now the Feast “Days” the first one Abib 15 having been “The Preparation (which is the Fore-Sabbath) and because THAT DAY was sabbath of great day (of the passover”, ‘FRIDAY’—‘Thursday’ night and ‘Friday’ day—, “six days” before was the Sabbath (Seventh Day) and “the next day”— five days before Abib 15 the first day of ULB, would be the Sunday when Jesus entered Jerusalem on the donkey. You and I part ways where you—as I understand you—, say that Jesus “six days before passover Feast Days” travelled the last leg to Jerusalem and, arrived in Bethany, on FRIDAY (“six days before passover Feast Days”). But I am sure John said that, having travelled the last leg to Jerusalem, and, having arrived in Bethany (on Friday), “Jesus, six days before the Feast Days (would begin on Abib 15), came = visited = went in at Lazarus where Lazarus was = stayed in Bethany”, on the SABBATH : “six days before passover Feast Days”. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p188 GE: That's why tradition has always had 'PALM SUNDAY', right --- it has always placed Jesus' BURIAL ON FRIDAY and has always dated Friday, Abib 15. Where tradition has gone wrong, was where it did not recognise “THE WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY” the exclusive day that Jesus had to be BURIED on the Sixth Day of the week, but has also placed Jesus’ Crucifixion and Death on it. 97

Reg: Gerard what bible do you use--- John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. Does NOT say 6 days before the feast of UNLEAVENED BREAD no wonder you are wrong you put your own interpretation in to suit what you believe were Gods word doesn’t agree John 12:1 says 6 days before the passover that . GE: Reg, I have the whole church who use the KJV ‘on my side’ despite its poor translation with ‘passover’, where the text has “DAYS of passover”—‘hehmerohn tou pascha’. Those “days of passover” of course were the “seven days of ULB”. The passover had only one other “day”— “the first day they KILLED the passover”— “on the fourteenth”. Therefore mentioning “days”—plural— “of passover”, it MUST be the “(seven) days Unleavened Bread shall be Eaten” which AFTER the exodus began “on the fifteenth day”.

Reg: You have been quoting from John 10:22 to John 12:1 and you have Jesus arriving in Jerusalem on Sunday

GE: I have Jesus arrive in Bethany on the Sixth Day, the Sixth Day having been his last day He travelled on to Jerusalem. John has “six days before the DAYS OF (:ULB) (when) Jesus visited Lazarus where he stayed in Bethany” six days before the Sixth Day (‘Friday’) so that Jesus visited Lazarus in Bethany on the Sabbath—“six days before the Days-of-ULB”. You got me wrong, Reg, I don’t say ; I say, arrived in Bethany on ‘Friday’ JUST LIKE YOU—BUT : arrived in Bethany on Friday SEVEN days before “Days-of-Passover- 98

Feast” the first day of seven DAYS ULB was eaten on the fifteenth of the month.

Reg: LOOK AT WHAT Mark 14:2 says AFTER 2 days IS the feast of the passover and didn’t want to kill Him that day--- MK 14:2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people. Mat 26:2 is the same--- MT 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.---we all have to face Judgment if I were you I would spend a lot of time in prayer asking Christ if what you are posting is His word . GE: Reg HERE is where you lost track… again…! Mark 14: and Matthew 26:2 are NOT ! Mark 14:1 is the JEWS conniving two days before the feast “DAYS” would begin with Abib 15 the “first day (of) seven ULB EATEN” Exodus 12:15B = Leviticus 23:6 = Exodus 12:7,8,18; Matthew 26:2 is JESUS telling his disciples that He would be “CRUCIFIED after two days”: on Abib 14 “the first, first day” Exodus 12:15A =“the first day they KILLED the passover” Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 (John 13:1 to 19:14 to 30) = Exodus 12:6 = Leviticus 23:5. Mark 14: and Matthew 26:2 are NOT the same! Reg HERE is where you lost track! But you have come nearer to the full truth than ANYONE ELSE! Matthew 26:2 “You know that after two days the SUFFERING occurs indeed the Son of Man delivered and CRUCIFIED!”—‘oidate hote meta duo hehmeras to pascha ginetai kai ho Uios tou Anthrohpou paradidotai eis to staurohthehnai’. 99

Matthew 26:3, “THEN afterwards (the following day the JEWS) the high priests and the elders connived …”— = Mark 14:1 “The passover and THE DAYS-of-unleavened bread were after two days and the chief priests and scribes connived how they might kill Him”—‘ehn de to pascha kai TA adzuma meta dua hehmeras’— = Matthew 26:14, “(w)hen Judas went to them and they pact with him” = Mark 14:10 “Judas went to the chief priests to betray Him.” Therefore Matthew 26:2 is first in time—two days before Jesus would be crucified on Abib 14; And Mark 14:1 was the next day when the Jews—two days before the Feast (on Abib 15), connived to kill Jesus. “BUT they said, NOT ON THE FEAST!” In other words, they only had the next day, the day “before the Feast” John 13:1, to kill Jesus on. So they crucified Jesus 9 o’clock the next day on the day “before the Feast”— three hours after Pilate that same day had delivered Him over to the Jews to be crucified “six o’clock in the morning and it was The Preparation-of-the Passover.” John 19:14. Matthew 26:2 stands on its own. But Mark 14:1,2 and Matthew 26:3—the Jews’ “consulting”, ; and Mark 14:10 and Matthew 26:14—Judas’ complotting with the Jews, and happened on the same day, “two days before the Feast”.

GE: The story or record of the day Jesus’ body was buried on, starts in John 19:31, “EVENING HAVING BEGUN ALREADY” in Mark 15:42 and Matthew 27:57, then later on JOSEPH BEGAN TO UNDERTAKE John 19:38 by first of all to get permission and the body itself MUCH LATER “removed”, and “delivered”, and “prostrated” in the proper 100 place for such exercises, etc etc. “This first night Nicodemus came to him (Joseph)” where they “to the law-of-Ethics of the Jews to bury” the Torah in Exodus 12,13, IN ORDER TO the following “mid-afternoon the Sabbath drawing near (because) that day was the Preparation”, lay Him down in the tomb.

Rubies: Another of your misconceptions … to buttress your ludicrous “BONE-DAY” theory, is of this verse: Joh 19:39 Nicodemus also, who EARLIER had come to Jesus BY NIGHT, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about 75 pounds in weight. You shamelessly dislocate and pervert the simple Bible text in pursuit of your Impossible Dream of “BONE-DAY”.

GE: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p197 Halt! It is Rubies who shamelessly dislocates and perverts the simple Bible text in pursuit of her Impossible Dream of Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection by adding her own word alongside her predecessor fraudster’s arbitrary inserted word, . does not contain either words! But “that first night” was “Bone-Day” and passover’s “first day (of) seven days ulb eaten” which, due to Jesus’ Passover Meal-of-Suffering, was never eaten by any Jews including Joseph and Nicodemus. It was the “evening”-beginning of Abib 15—does Rubies now suddenly want to deny it?

Rubies: The text does NOT say as you claim : “this first night Nicodemus came to him (Joseph)”.

GE: 101

O not!? What is this, ‘éhlthen de kai Nikódehmos ho elthóhn pros autón (Iohséhph) nuktós to próhton’?

Rubies: The text DOES identify NICODEMUS as that same man who, EARLIER, HAD COME to JESUS BY NIGHT.

GE: : Indicative?! Rubbish! ‘elthohn’ Adverbial _Punctiliar_ Participle, “Nicodemus _when_ coming to Joseph bearing a mixture”—‘éhlthen elthóhn phérohn mígma’—not years ago before, but punctiliar that: “at the (very) first night (of ulb)”—‘nuktós to próhton’. And just watch Rubies with ! Never! The simple Bible text, is, “Therefore indeed came Nicodemus who joined (Joseph) the First Night (of ulb), bringing a mixture of hundred pounds of myrrh and aloe.” That is :- word for word: ‘éhlthen’— “came”; ‘de kai’— “indeed”; ‘Nikódemos ho’— “Nicodemus who”; ‘elthóhn pros autón’— “came to him” / “joined him” / “having met him”; ‘nuktós to próhton’— “The First Night (of ulb Abib 15)”; ‘phérohn mígma smúrnehs kai alóehs hohs lítras hekatón’— “a mixture of hundred pounds myrrh and aloes.”

Rubies: Nicodemus did NOT “come to JOSEPH by night” as you imagine!!! We are intended to recall the story of Nicodemus, the Pharisee ruler who was too cowardly to be seen with Jesus in the daylight, but sneakily came by cover of darkness : Joh 3:1 102

GE: Denied! read, “Nicodemus coming to him (Joseph) the first night (of ulb)”—‘nuktos to prohton’.

Rubies: Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. Joh 3:2 THIS MAN CAME TO JESUS BY NIGHT and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God.

GE: We are not reading John 3; but John 19. We don’t read “by night” simply; we read that, “The _First_ Night”. We don’t read Nicodemus’ story; we are reading the story of Jesus’ BURIAL “The First Night (of ulb)”— ‘nuktos to prohton’, when “Nicodemus came to Joseph and THEY took the body of Jesus and wound it in linen.” Verse 40.

Rubies: It was either at or shortly after the FIRST PASSOVER of Jesus' ministry that Nicodemus “CAME BY NIGHT.” But you Gerhard, misconstrue this as being the night after Jesus was crucified.

GE: I object! Speak for yourself; it’s YOU who misconstrue the story of Jesus’ Burial as being And thanks for admitting and stating yourself the TRUTH ---- an interesting development I see --- Rubies conceded to a NIGHT undertaking by Joseph and Nicodemus to bury the body of Jesus --- quite revolutionary and ALARMING! 103

Rubies: WOE to those who put good for evil and evil for good. What a very pertinent proof you have given us, of your most appalling comprehension! I never wrote any such thing! I wrote that YOU use this falsehood to prop up your gimpy “BONE-DAY” heresy. WHAT I WROTE was this ... that NIcodemus was the man who FIRST CAME TO JESUS BY NIGHT, after teh FIRST PASSOVER of His ministry ... and that JOSEPH & NICODEMUS BURIED JESUS between 3pm & 6pm on FRIDAY. This is what I have ALWAYS maintained in crystal clear black & white. A LIAR is someone who deliberately tells falsehoods. This simply does not apply to me. If at any time you imagine that I have told a lie, then you are within your rights to respectfully query what I have said, but any accusation that I am a LIAR, is purely a vindictive fabrication on your part. Gerhard, for a theologian, you make a passable plumber. Any chance of checking out my septic tank? You may be qualified to do that, but where scriptural comprehension is concerned, your brain is in the sewer. Your appalling comprehension of both Bible text and believers' comments has led you astray multitudinous times, and this gross error is most definitely an example of that.

Reg: The last passover does not match up with the first in the time the lamb was slain OT beginning of 15th NT 3pm on 14th God allowed that change some 200 years before from evening sacrifices 15th to 3pm on the 14th so that the events of the last passover would bring about Christs death just after sunset on 15th Joseph went to Pilot AFTER sunset to beg thebody of Christ Mat 27:57, Luke 23:50-54, Mark 15:42, John 19:31

GE: 104

At last you recognised that , Reg! In fact it was God who CAUSED the change through the passover of Yahweh in Egypt and exodus from Egypt and subsequent passovers in the promised land. And I think it was a bit longer than <200 years before … the last passover would bring about Christs death>. Now the Last Passover DOES . In both the New AND Old Testaments the lamb was slain <3pm on 14th>—NEVER in the OT was the lamb slain —NEVER; it was ALWAYS in the OT <3pm on 14th> always! The same in the New Testament, because <3pm on 14th> is exactly the same as the . You have it WRONG, Reg, that were . They were not; they were , the OLD English for “late, in the afternoon”—<3pm on 14th>! Just the meaning you give to the word ‘evening’, Reg, that it meant ---there’s your problem! ‘Evening’ can and does mean different things in the Old Testament, Reg; it can mean ‘late afternoon’/‘mid-afternoon’, or it can mean from until dark night; in other words, ‘dusk’. And the word ‘eve’ in the old English of the KJ Old Testament, will most probable every time mean the same as ‘evening’ meaning ‘late afternoon’ / ‘mid-afternoon’ IN PROSPECT OF THE ONCOMING DAY. Therefore the which and Himself worked through the redemption of his People out of the Land of Darkness, was the CHANGE IN DATING DAYS FROM SUNSET TO SUNSET instead of the old way, from sunrise to sunrise. That change made many centuries before Christ at the exodus, did not change the SACRIFICE from <3pm on 14th> to , but changed the EATING of the sacrifice in the night after its sacrifice “on the FOURTEENTH”—Exodus 12:5,8,18, to the EATING of the sacrifice in the night after its sacrifice “on the FIFTEENTH”, 105

Exodus 12:46,51 = Leviticus 23:6 = Numbers 28:17; 33:3. Therefore my dear Reg, Christ’s death was NOT but “the ninth hour” <3pm on 14th> So that <>

Reg: the whole story from John 10:22 – John 21:1 this is Jesus last 3 months Gospel Gerard with what you believe you cannot use one word of these texts John 10:22- 12:1 because you believe the first 3 Gospel accounts which have that wrong in the spring from Jerica to Jerusalem arriving on Sunday and the triumphant enter when the same walk took place in the winter how could Christ come with a large crowd like the first 3 Gospels have it and John having Jesus under threat of death sneaking into Bethany on the Friday before

GE: Reg, you amaze me! Are you really prepared to summarily reach verdict THREE of the four Gospels , that Jesus ? Is it not possible that REG has it wrong?! It does not matter which history—a winter or a spring history—any Gospel places the day when Jesus visited Lazarus where he stayed in Bethany, in literal context before six days before the Feast Days of the passover would start. Because from here on the last days of Jesus’ life and beyond, reveal themselves one day at a time until and including the day of his first appearance to Mary Magdalene. This topic and discussion has consistently been about nothing else. I have never given thought to these prior issues which you are assuming here. And I can just wonder why not? Because they do not actually exist I would say. Because they 106 are not relevant from the very nature of the issues under discussion most definitely! So why worry any further or rather in retrogression? Let the dead bury their own dead; from John 12:1,12 Mark 11:1,11 Luke 19:22-44 on, it is all and every day just about Jesus’ Last Passover Suffering.

Rubies: I stand corrected - you ALMOST apologised for your false statement that the Sabbath was never called “SHABBATH SHABBATHON : “Gerhard wrote :#2220 “On the contrary, show where once the Seventh Day Sabbath is being described ‘shabbath shabbathon’! There is nothing of the sort”, is a serious and unpardonable ERROR OF GERHARD which I herewith acknowledge, admit, apologise for and RETRACT. I wish I never made this error PROVOKED by the MULTIPLE ERRORS of the FAKE Rubies.” Oh too bad, there you go again! This was shaping up to be a passable attempt at a rare apology, before you blamed someone else for YOUR mistake, & also lied about imaginary “errors”! Then of course there is your brutally honest post #2305: “All right Pioneer, love your neighbour as yourself...if you can. I CANNOT. “I CAN, ONLY HATE. THAT IS MY NATURE.” We have all seen how true this admission is! Your carnal nature is apparent to all. You demonstrate nothing of the spiritual nature of Christ. There is something that is painfully obvious to evangelical members on this forum, and similar sabbatarian forums everywhere. The legalistic doctrine of SABBATH-KEEPING makes people CONCEITED, MEAN- MINDED, NASTY, SANCTIMONIOUS, PROFANE, ANGRY, UNFORGIVING, ACCUSATORY, JUDGEMENTAL, SUPERCILIOUS, PROUD, VENGEFUL, IRRATIONAL, UNLOVING, DISHONEST, SELF- RIGHTEOUS, HYPOCRITICAL, COMPLACENT, SMUG, 107

SPITEFUL.

GE: Yes, and then there is something that is painfully obvious to everyone whosoever, at similar forums wherever whichever, the Sundayists’ counter apologetics against the Sabbath which make them

Rubies: Most certainly it is not the sabbatarians who are “persecuted” though they are certainly rebuked as the Bible commands. They never risk their lives on the front line for Jesus.

GE: Aitsa!

Rubies: Gerhard, you mock me for saying that Topix frequently deletes many of my posts.(YOUR POST #2246.) You call me a liar (YOUR POST #2246 and many others) and you falsely claim that I have never posted certain things.

GE: Rubies, please take the trouble to go have a look where I called you a liar and WILL call you a liar every time there, where, I have called you a liar, were it thousand times, times thousand. There is, method, in my madness. Don't you worry!

Rubies: You falsely claim that I have never posted certain things. You falsely accuse me of having contradicted myself or changed my mind. Well ponder on this. Just as a typical f'r'instance, 108 you can check the post numbers on page 110 for yourself to verify my honesty and integrity, and contrast it with your bellowing scorn and false accusations. Posts # 2286, 2287, 2297 & 2299 are now MISSING from page 110 of Topix. (As of 28.4.14. For all I know, many more have disappeared since then.) That is : 4 posts out of 20 on that page VANISHED. 20% of posts on this page alone, DELETED. And every one of them was MINE. These were all MY responses requested by other posters in ongoing discussions, part of a coherent and logical progression of my carefully-considered replies to Alex and Gerhard. How is anyone supposed to conduct a rational discussion when Topix applies such senseless, arbitrary censorship? Countless numbers of my diligently-composed posts have vanished in this way, with no reason ever supplied. I am one of the most honest, polite, well-educated, coherent, logical, circumspect and considerate posters on this site. Also INTERESTING, which is one of Topix's requirements.

GE: Dear poor unfortunate bereaved Rubies, did I not tell you to use PATIENCE with Topix SDA? I did, but you must have thought it’s just my peace-offering cup of poisoned coffee …. Wiete gegooi die sjeef innie koffie? Koffie Anaanbrood? YOU HAVE TO _WAIT_ BETWEEN POSTS! Or you will LOOSE posts --- like I have many times. JUST RE-POST them! Why can’t you re-post them?! Shucks one would swear _I_ let _your_ posts disappear, are you silly or not?!

Rubies: The significance of this is in the unique Torah readings required for that day of the year, according to the Haftorah cycle during which specific portions of scripture must be read in the synagogues so that the whole scriptures are completed regularly. 109

Once, the sacrifices for an Appointed Feast would have had to be added to the Sabbath sacrifices, when they also fell on the 7th day. The Greek phrase translated “high sabbath” in English, is actually “great the day of-that the Sabbath.” This would be “Shabbat Hagadol”, THE Great Sabbath, in Hebrew. How appropriate that this annual day, when millions of Jews had gathered in Jerusalem listening to prescribed portions of scripture read in the synagogues, should fall on the day when the Messiah was “in the heart of the earth,” our Passover Lamb. Appropriately, the portion read specifically every year on Shabbat Hagadol, the Sabbath during which Jesus' body lay in the tomb, is Malachi chapters 3 & 4. So millions of Jews on that auspicious day heard this messianic prophecy …”the Messenger of the Covenant in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the LORD of hosts. But who can endure the day of His coming, and who can stand when He appears?” etc. Read the full passage to see how pertinent this day, this Shabbat Hagadol, this “high sabbath” is to the Crucifixion narrative. Whatever our own personal opinion, it is a fact that Shabbat Hagadol was recorded in John 19:31, and it fell on the day AFTER the crucifixion,…

GE: Yes, it is a fact that Shabbat Hagadol was recorded in John 19:31, and it fell on the day AFTER the crucifixion— Yes, and don’t you forget it! Why when Gerhard Ebersohn says it, do you DENY it is a fact that Shabbat Hagadol is recorded in John 19:31, and that it fell on the day AFTER the crucifixion?! Go READ John 19:31, “because it was / had become The Preparation … the bodies on the crosses on the sabbath … because THAT DAY of sabbath was the great day”—epei Paraskeueh ehn en tohi sabbatohi ehn gar megaleh 110 heh hehmera ekeinou tou sabbatou’! Why do people say the crosses and bodies had to be removed BEFORE the Sabbath while they say it WAS the Sabbath and the crosses and bodies had yet to be removed? Because they don’t understand or know what they are talking --- just like you, faked Rubies! says Rubies says Rubies says Rubies says Rubies, was … … says Rubies, says Rubies. Comment superfluous …. I think you ought to be relieved and thankful, Rubies, that not all your posts got placed. Saves you some face come to think of it. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p189 Rubies: Whatever our own personal opinion, it is a fact that Shabbat Hagadol was recorded in John 19:31, and it fell on the day AFTER the crucifixion, which pinpoints the year of the Cross as one in which 14 Nisan was also the 2nd Sabbath of the religious year. There are not 2 days –”High Sabbath” & “Shabbat Hagadol.” They are one &the same! And this day inevitably falls on Saturday, the 2nd Sabbath of the year. Only in a proportion of years does the 2nd Sabbath happen to land on 14 Nisan, obviously. But John 19:31 is unequivocal evidence for the year and the day of the crucifixion.

GE: Again yes! Now come to terms with what you are saying 111 yourself. But it has nothing to do with or with a Just the bare count of the days OF THE WEEK wherein Abib 14 occurred shows the feast-sabbath of Abib 15 on the Sixth Day of the week, shows it, the feast-sabbath of Abib 15 was the FOURTH Note, says Rubies, ! Abib 1 the Sixth Day on the new moon sabbath (x1); Abib 2 on the Seventh Day Sabbath (x2); Abib 9 on the Seventh Day Sabbath (x3); Abib 15 on the Sixth Day passover-sabbath (x4). The next day, Abib 16, was the THIRD Sabbath of the religious year on the Seventh Day Sabbath. It also was the FIFTH ‘sabbath’ in the new . So Abib 15 was the 2nd : “to its season”.

Rubies: There is NO other day designated “Sabbath”(Shabbath H7676) in scripture, except the Day of Atonement.

GE: More apt ineptness cannot be imagined. It’s the same nonsense you try with the passover-“Bone-Day”—uninformed denial.

Rubies: Sabbath and the Day of Atonement are also designated a Miqra Qodesh and a Shabbath Shabbathon. But the reverse does not apply. Just because Trumpets, Tabernacles and Solemn Assembly are designated both a “shabbathon” and a “miqra qodesh,” does not mean they are a SABBATH.

GE: You mean “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath 112

OF THE LORD GOD” and you have it right --- this time. I say this time because every time elsewhere you violate this what you teach yourself in this place. How? You say “sabbath” in Leviticus 23:11,15,16 , is — “The Seventh Day Sabbath”. Then you say, <15 & 21 Nisan, and Shavuot, are all a “miqra qodesh” but they are neither a “shabbathon” nor a “shabbath” (the Seventh Day). But Abib 15 was a “sabbath”appointed> to its while the Seventh Day Sabbath was not. “In the fourteenth day is the LORD’S passover (killed), but on the fifteenth day is the feast UNTO THE LORD --- seven days ye must eat ulb; in the first day ulb ye shall do NO SERVILE WORK”— that is, the first day ulb shall be a “REST-DAY / SABBATH an holy convocation observed and devoted unto the LORD”. After Abib 14 “when they KILLED the passover”, came Abib 15 when they “ATE”—, ‘downed’ / ‘rested’ / “buried” their passover. Besides for their origin and chronological order, two things mainly AS SABBATH days, distinguished both “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD” and the “sabbath” of the passover: 1) On the religious or appointed “sabbath” of the “great day” of the passover Abib 15, “no SERVILE (or ‘every day work’) was allowed, while the religious or appointed works commanded on “that day”, “the sabbath of that day the great day”(John 19:31) of the passover Abib 15, were mandatory. Its most important work was to KINDLE FIRE and—strictly forbidden on the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD—to “BURN WITH FIRE—return to dust—inter—, that which remained” of the passover sacrifice, “the body of Jesus”. 2) On the “Sabbath of the LORD GOD” however, no work whatsoever was allowed except the religious or appointed works that belonged to it, which were: 113

A) to have “holy convocation in all your houses” on it and B) to “REMEMBER the Sabbath” for all the great works “OF THE LORD GOD” which “God, having ENTERED INTO his own rest as God-in-his-own”, “on the Seventh Day finished” (Hebrews 4:4,10) through Jesus Christ in Resurrection from the dead. How “the DAY” of the passover “after the sabbath” in Leviticus 23:4-37 could not be “the day after the SABBATH” of the passover, is above me. “The day after the sabbath” in the passover-Scriptures Leviticus 23:4-37, was “the day after the sabbath” of the PASSOVER! I do not -- to the disappointment of any who might disagree with me -- aim at or desire that they will agree with me. This post was meant for those who think they are funny when they litter Topix' pages with peanuts and cigarette stumps because they cannot disagree but like mentally disturbed.

Rubies: There is NO other day designated “Sabbath” (Shabbath H7676) in scripture, except the Day of Atonement. There is NO day designated “high sabbath” in the OT.

GE: Ja. If your vision stops above your rolled up eyes against their sockets under your own high brow. But in the Old Testament exactly “the fifteenth day of the First Month”— “the sabbath” of the passover of Yahweh—is --- to the eye of faith --- unequivocally designated “high sabbath” with the equivalent words “great (‘gadol’) day” being employed instead. Jeremiah 30:6-10 Joel 2:11 “Because there are NO GRAVES in the land of Egypt” the bodies of the dead were “BURNED WITH FIRE”, “wherefore thou (Moses for the LORD) hast thus dealt with us to carry us forth out of Egypt that WE, should DIE—but Moses (for the LORD) said, Fear ye not, stand still, and SEE THE 114

SALVATION OF THE LORD which He will show you TODAY.” “THIS DAY came ye out in the month Abib.” Exodus 14:11-13; 4. “By STRENGTH-OF-HAND—Jesus Christ—the LORD brought us out. God surely will visit you [“My soul was not left in hell nor my flesh in death would see corruption.”] God led the People ABOUT THE WAY OF THE WILDERNESS [raised them up from the grave] of the Red Sea … And ye shall carry up my BONES away hence with you --- to go by day-and-night”… out of the land of the living dead. Now read here, about “THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY”! Said Rubies, Alright, YOU showed me, . I acknowledge and I say many thanks! Now I can quote Deuteronomy 31:21, (‘hay- yom’—Young’s)— “When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD GOD … that they may hear and fear the LORD GOD and observe to do all the words of this LAW.” Read the remarkable, virtually identical, parallel of Moses’ DAY OF DEATH AND BURIAL and Israel’s DAY OF GOINGS OUT, OUT of Egypt.” [The FIRE of] My Anger shall be KINDLED against them in THAT DAY … and I will surely HIDE [‘bury’] My Face [Jesus Christ] in THAT DAY (for all the evils – sins – which they [as type of us ourselves] shall have wrought).… For it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed [as type of “One, The Seed”]… when I shall HAVE brought [had finished to bring] them INTO the land which I swore unto their fathers.” Now read carefully, “THIS SONG”—Exodus 15!— “shall testify against them as a witness”— as a witness to the True and Faithful Witness. “This Song”, “the Song of Moses and of the Lamb”, “a Song for the Sabbath Day”, “the Song of their Salvation”, is raised “as a witness against them for I know their imagination which 115 they go about”--- that it “is always, only evil”, because “they imagine evil against the LORD and against His Anointed”. “For … This Song … even THIS DAY TODAY”— “HA'YOM” [Rubies]—‘hay-y om’ [Young’s]— [Rubies]— “IN-THE-BONE-OF-DAY” Exodus 12:17 --- “this Song…” IT IS WRITTEN in Deuteronomy 31:21 “…the day BEFORE I have brought them INTO the Land which I sware.” The LORD had brought Israel INTO the Land of the Salvation He had sworn unto them on the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD, wherefore the LORD COMMANDED Israel to “REMEMBER the Sabbath to keep it sacred unto HIM” AND HIS SALVATION --- JESUS CHRIST. The LORD had brought Israel INTO the Land of His Salvation and “THAT DAY THE LORD HID HIS FACE”, was, quote: “the day BEFORE I have brought them in”. “The Selfsame Whole-Day Bone-Day”— ‘etsem yom’, was “the day BEFORE” …the Sabbath! “That day of sabbath great day… was The Preparation… which is the Fore-Sabbath” John 19:31 Mark 15:42. Thank you very much, dear Rubies. You helped me discover one of the sweetest and most pure of rubies I have ever found. Thank you very much!

Rubies: There is only one time in the English translation of the NT where the term “high day” is found.

GE: Yes, if you look too ‘high’ into the back of your own “head” and cannot see there are ‘head-days’, ‘higher’ than the other days in their particular categories. Like in Exodus 12:15, “EVEN THE FIRST”—‘rishon’— “BEGINNING / foremost / chief / HEAD, day”. Yea, ‘ak…rishon…yom’ Abib 14— 116

“even the first, first day”: “ye shall REMOVE LEAVEN” on and “KILL the passover”— Exodus 12:6A Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 John 13:1-19:30— Abib 14; Yea, as well as, ‘ak…rishon…yom’ Abib 15, “the one and only outstanding beginning and HIGH day: (of) “seven days NO LEAVEN shall be EATEN”— of “seven days UNLEAVENED BREAD shall be EATEN”— Adjectival Nomenclature for NONE other than the “original / authentic / authoritative FIRST (and) HIGH DAY” in Exodus 12:15B— Abib 15 in both Old and New Testaments! . Rubies: There is only one time in the English translation of the NT where the term “high day” is found. The word “DAY” is not in the Greek, but was added by the KJV. All versions seem to translate the Greek word MEGALE here as “high” when in all the 70 or more other mentions, it is correctly translated “GREAT.” “That Sabbath day was a high day” is a false and misleading translation. John 19:31 ought to read, “For THAT DAY was THE GREAT SABBATH.” This would have prevented much confusion and heresy. When the Jews refer to “special Sabbaths,” they mean a 7th day Sabbath on which another Appointed Feast Day also happens to fall in that year.

GE: I fail to see any that results from a proper, literal translation in John 19:31, “Because it was The Preparation … for (in passover season) THAT day was sabbath-of-HIGH- day” of the passover. That ‘high day sabbath’ or ‘high sabbath’ historically “was The Preparation”, which for any unprejudiced and unbiased mind to understand perfectly orderly is simple enough. “That day, (the) high sabbath (of 117 passover), was The Preparation”— “The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath”— the Sixth Day of the week. It was it, not only by its seasonal coincidence, but actually it was it because God FORE-ORDAINED “That Day…” [‘Bone-Day’ – ‘etsem yom’] “…high day sabbath” of passover, to fall on the Sixth Day of the week at Jesus’ Last Passover. There is no about it, the Seventh Day Sabbath according to God’s Eternal Purpose had to follow on the Sixth Day of the week, “the Preparation”— read Matthew 27:62! I can without effort think of three … nay, four, five … times in the OT Scriptures where “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake” when He was speaking of also the Sixth Day of the week “The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath”: 1) At the exodus; 2) At the giving of the Law; 3) At the giving of the manna; 4) At the institution of the passover in the Promised Land--- viz., in Deuteronomy 31. (post above) In the year of our Lord’s Last Passover the “HIGH day sabbath” and “Selfsame BONE-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh, was ON THE SIXTH DAY OF THE WEEK on the fifteenth day of the First Month. For “God” concerning it, “thus spake”— like He “concerning the Seventh Day spake”, no matter the heresy and much confusion caused by Christians who parrot the Jews who, when they refer to . DUH!

Rubies: Appointed Feasts are NOT “Special sabbaths” unless they fall ON the 7th day. The significance of this is in the unique Torah readings required for that day of the year, according to the Haftorah cycle during which specific portions of scripture must be read in the synagogues so that the whole scriptures are completed regularly. 118

GE: Rubies is the best example of the heresy and confusion she accuses the KJV supposedly causes through its translation in John 19:31 with “that day was HIGH day sabbath”. Here she illustrates her own heresy and confusion… Says Rubies, So which is it, readings from the Torah (Law, Scripture)? Or is it ? These of course has no influence on or and understood. Also the fact they is meaningless and has no influence on how they must be read in the synagogues. That now for you is objectivity, not heresy or confusion, but uniquely and methodically can guarantee that and are learned and understood to the in the . Have it all to yourself, dear Rubies; but it’s not for me, thanks.

Rubies: The sacrifices for an Appointed Feast would have had to be added to the Sabbath sacrifices, when they also fell on the 7th day. The Greek phrase translated “high sabbath” in English, is actually “great the day of-that the Sabbath.” This would be “Shabbat Hagadol”, THE Great Sabbath, in Hebrew. How appropriate that this annual day, when millions of Jews had gathered in Jerusalem listening to prescribed portions of scripture read in the synagogues, should fall on the day when the Messiah was “in the heart of the earth,” our Passover Lamb. 119

GE: It is Rubies herself, again, declaring the very ‘sabbath’ SHE alleges Seventh Day of the week, and . But let GE say it and it is his of Scripture. Jesus was “in the heart of the earth” in LIFE suffering dying the death of death “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God” from that “My HOUR is come”, “at the table”, “and it was night”, “and HE WENT OUT”, and descended into the midst of the Sea of Dark Waters (Kedron), and walked into the Olive Press (Gethsemane) where He let fall to the ground great drops of LIFE’S blood and “the LORD fought for (Him)” --- then came there his betrayer and contrabands like the claws of death took hold on Him and led Him into the chambers of satanic sadism “in the heart of the earth”. And Jesus’ eternal night under suffering the death of sin never ended while they crucified Him until God-forsaken, “GOD LOOSED THE PAINS OF DEATH” BY THE “POWER OVER DEATH”. Jesus had to both “lay down MY LIFE” and “TAKE UP AGAIN MY LIFE”. Then began to END Jesus’ being “in the heart of the earth” ALIVE— “on the first day when they KILLED the Passover”. “When evening had come since The Preparation had begun which is the Fore-Sabbath, there came Joseph … and in that first night also came to him, Nicodemus … and they PREPARED the body of Jesus to be buried according to the principles of the Jews’ ETHICS”—, the Passover of Yahweh Scriptures and Law of Moses, “to BURY”. “There laid they the body of Jesus because the grave was ready by the time of the Jews’ preparations to begin”, “mid-afternoon against the Sabbath”. How ‘appropriate’ on this annual day! Then began to END Jesus’ second day of having been “taken with and carried out forth”, “in the heart of the earth” out of the land of the living 120 dead, “on the first (of) seven days ye shall eat (assimilate / unify with) unleavened bread”—bread of death. “In the heart of the earth” IN THE GRAVE IN THE EARTH ROCK, “the third day”—HOW APPROPRIATE!— “God …”, “IN SABBATH DAY’S FULLNESS in the mid-inclining afternoon daylight against the First Day of the week”, “… RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD!”

Rubies: There are not 2 days –”High Sabbath” & “Shabbat Hagadol.” They are one &the same!

GE: Correct. Why do you mention? Because you speak from both corners of your mouth. High Sabbath = Shabbat Hagadol = “great day of sabbath” = “sabbath of great day”… no diffs —the passover’s was Abib 15 and at Jesus’ last passover Abib 15 was on Friday. That this day inevitably falls on ‘Saturday’ is nonsense! That this day if possible is even more ridiculous. But that is not funny; it is plain haughty groundless arrogance.

Alex: Note erev pesach - Lord's Passover / no meat eaten and pesach 1st day of unleavened bread. “

Rubies: I note you have mentioned this before, the idea that that there was no lamb eaten at the last Passover. I wonder where you get this idea? Surely not from scripture, for Matthew, Mark & Luke all tell us that on the day the Passover must be sacrificed, the disciples “prepared the Passover,” which necessarily 121 means, they sacrificed their own Passover lamb.

GE: That’s what she, says. She is wrong. Not from Scripture, Matthew, Mark or Luke.

Rubies: Of course, there is no lamb eaten at Passover NOW, since 70 AD, but in Jesus' day, it was obligatory for all Israelites to eat the lamb. If they were unclean or absent on the first Passover in Nisan, then they were obliged to attend the second Passover in Iyyar. There was no provision for squeamish vegetarians! If you wanted the angel of death to pass over your house, you must kill the lamb by sunset on 14th Nisan and eat the lamb after sunset on the night of 15th Nisan. Failing to eat the Passover lamb was a sin for which you would be cut off from Israel (Numbers 9:13). I have also seen others claim that at the time of the Cross, there was only a single token lamb killed at Passover for the entire nation. Then you have Reg's wacky idea that the priests spent several days prior to the Passover, slaughtering all the lambs for the feast themselves, when he writes, “Those lambs would have been dead for days.” This of course is in direct denial of the Lord's command that the Passover lambs must ALL be sacrificed late afternoon on 14 Nisan, eaten on the night of 15 Nisan, and that NONE of the sacrifice was to be allowed to remain to the morning after it was killed. There is also Gerhard's absurd theory that the Israelites hung about for an entire day to bury the remains of the lamb on the afternoon of the 15th. See the strange heresies and private interpretations that proliferate when the simple meaning of the scripture is confused and disordered? 122

GE: You mentioned Reg’s post. You do not mention my post. Now give my post or and quote it! YOU CANNOT BECAUSE YOU’RE A LIAR. My theory is not that the Israelites hung about for an entire day to bury the remains of the lamb on the afternoon of the 15th. The SCRIPTURES state that the Israelites after they the night before, before midnight, had eaten the first “unleavened bread with the flesh”, “next morning burned with fire that which remained” of the sacrifice. Exodus 12:8,9. Then, “THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY”, the Israelites “with all their might” moved from Rameses to Succot where they before sunset “baked unleavened cakes” THEN MOVED ON and “brought (it) forth out of Egypt … because they were THRUST OUT of Egypt”—by God! Exodus 12:37,39. Nothing of which is the faked Rubies’ grotesque LIE not against me, but against God’s truth of Jesus’ Christ’s DAY OF BURIAL ON “BONE-DAY” the 15th. Exodus 12:51. Shameless brainwashed parrot Rubies! My parrot has been taught by myself to swear and fight; YOU, have been taught TO LIE AND LIE DOWN like a lame pretending parrot.

Alex: The Lords Passover Day was on the 14th and the celebration of the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Passover night. Christ was alive for the first on the 14th hence the Last Supper but was buried by the time of the Feast on the 15th. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p190 Rubies: Exo 12:6 “You shall keep it until the 14th day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel 123 shall kill their lambs at twilight.… 8 They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.… 10 And you shall LET NONE OF IT REMAIN UNTIL THE MORNING; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. “ Exo 34:25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning. “ Is this “meatless Passover” some COG doctrine? Josephus is our best source of info, and he tells us that at one of the final Passovers before the Temple was destroyed (which of course the Cross Passover was NOT), there were 256,500 lambs slaughtered to feed about 3 million Jews who had gathered in Jerusalem from all the countries to which they had been scattered.(Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book 6 Chapter 9:3.) This was the means by which the Romans were able to kill so many of them, a ghastly irony indeed. Having rejected the Passover Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Jews were shut up in a siege of Jerusalem on the day the Passover was sacrificed, 14 Nisan, and about 1,300,000 of them subsequently perished.

GE: Josephus may be YOUR best source of info. I prefer not to consult him.

Rubies: Everything was completed on the same day of death, within the space of less than 3 hours. [Acts 5:6,7.] In that stony land they could not dig a hole 6 feet deep, then put a coffin into it and cover it over as we do. They first washed the body, then wrapped it up in a linen shroud [Matt 27:59], A separate cloth was placed over the head and face [John 20:7]. All was covered in many pounds of fragrant spices, then bound up in linen. [Luke 24:12; John 11:44; 20:5,6.] The body was laid on 124 a stone bench inside the tomb. [Mark 16:5; Luke 23:55; John 20:12.] All tombs had numerous shelves that could hold many bodies while they were decaying. [Luke 23:53; John 19:41; John 20:12.] The entrance to the tomb was sealed up with a stone to prevent anything getting in or out. [Mark 15:46.] Each body was left there for about a year until the soft tissues had decomposed. Then the dry bones were removed, and placed in a small stone or wooden box. [Exodus 13:9.] This was a way of saving precious land.

GE: Joseph buried Jesus’ body is his new sepulchre hewn out of solid rock wherein no one was buried before. . Rubies: Unoccupied tombs were whitewashed every year before the Feasts, to let travellers know that they were available for sleeping in on their journey to Jerusalem. [Matthew 23:27.]

GE: If the graves had no dead bodies or bones in them, Jesus did not make a very relevant reference to the white washed graves.

Rubies Budget motels. So Jesus being “wrapped in cloth” and spices and laid on the bench in the tomb, WAS the complete burial. The women intended to bring extra spices to cover Him after the Sabbath – in addition to the 75 or 100 lbs that Nicodemus had already supplied. This was their offering to the Lord, much as we might place flowers on a grave today. But Jesus HAD been “properly buried” and nobody intended to remove His body and put it in a hole in the ground.

GE: 125

Yes, Everything was completed on the same day from that Joseph appeared on the scene—the same day that as soon as it had started Joseph started to initiate undertaking to bury the body of Jesus until he three hours before the Sabbath, had closed the grave. All within the confines of the single “Selfsame day BONE-Day”-of-BURIAL! Not but all on the one day after death. Then you shade your story as if the was inside the sepulchre! Which you attempt to do to support the false impression which you wish to create about the true events of “that day” the fifteenth day of the First Month. You ascribe the Law’s prescriptions for the fifteenth to the fourteenth; you see yourself doing it; yet you will not acknowledge it. And that is how the whole falsity of a one day crucifixion, death AND burial, is concocted and maintained and has been popularised and promoted to worship status. Man's burial is the utmost depth of his deserved humiliation. Christ’s Burial was the utmost depth of his deserved Exaltation. The first planes to the height of His Exaltation at the right hand of God in heavenly Glory of His Majesty scaled, were Christ’s Burial and Interment. God not after Jesus died, forsook Him nor in death or grave, ceased vigil over his body. As Jesus was victorious in suffering of our death, so was God victorious in suffering of Jesus’ death. “For David speaketh concerning Him, I foresaw the LORD always before my face, for He is on my right hand, that I shall not be moved: …” Exodus 24:10 KJV: “They saw the God of Israel and under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven NAS: as clear as the sky itself. לְבבַננה תת ת :INT: paved of sapphire itself as the sky clear HEB הה תסהתפְבי יר וְכֶעעםֶצצ ֥ הה צםֶצם תשיַ֖ממה תי ֖יְבם ליַ֖מטהההה תר׃ Revelation 15:2-4; 21:18,19. Isaiah 54:9-11. “So also is the Resurrection of The Dead … RAISED IN GLORY … 126

RAISED IN POWER … Sown a natural / terrestrial body the Last Man was made / raised a Spiritual Body … a quickening Spirit … the Lord from heaven. … then (was) brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in Victory.” Cf. 2Corinthians 3:17,18 “… from (the) glory [of his Grave] to (the) glory…” of His Resurrection. Jesus foresaw He would not suffer the fate of the dead as Rubies described above that the flesh of the dead would corrupt away in their graves and that in time their bones would be disturbed and moved away. Jesus foresaw it would not happen with his body of flesh and bone. Jesus’ day of burial would be the day his bones would be moved with his body— “his head with his legs—no bone of his broken or severed—with the purtenance thereof”, “once for all”, “without blemish”, “without spot or wrinkle”, to await his Resurrection from the dead and mortality and the corruptible. Foresaw Christ, “I shall not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice … also my FLESH shall rest in hope because Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer Thine Holy One to see CORRUPTION. “

Rubies: I think you will find, trying to decipher GE's tangled posts, that he advocates a Thursday Cross, that they all went home leaving Jesus hanging on the cross all night, then came back the next day and conducted a full-blown procession and day- long fuenral. Seems it was quite some party. Surprising that there is nothing about it in the Bible, really.

GE: Quoting Rubies, ! God not only hears; He also reads! It’s not surprising that there is nothing about it in the Bible, really. Shows the sad state of your knowledge of both the Bible and my posts both of which 127 clearly you have not read—no one can have read both and lie that much about both. If you have read my posts it would be as good as having read the Scriptures brcause my posts virtually always, contain virtually nothing than what is in the Bible, really.

Rubies: The idea that that there was no lamb eaten at the last Passover. I wonder where you get this idea? Surely not from scripture, for Matthew, Mark & Luke all tell us that on the day the Passover must be sacrificed, the disciples “prepared the Passover,” which necessarily means, they sacrificed their own Passover lamb.

. GE: What do you mean by the last Passover? All post-Egypt passovers had TWO meals, the first, in the night first halve of the fourteenth day of the First Month a LEAVENED meal; and the second in the night first halve on the fifteenth day of the First Month an UNLEAVENED meal. Source of information? None other than God’s Written Word The New Testament Gospel Story of Our Passover, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. No good for faked Rubies. If you mean by the last Passover the ‘Last Supper’, ‘The Last Supper’ was the first passover meal—JESUS’ New Testament new, Christian, institution of “The Lord’s Supper”— as you Rubies know but pretend was the first passover’s only meal. Here you are the best of Roman Catholics arguing for two passover’s sacrifices, the first on the thirteenth day of the First Month and the next one on the fourteenth day of the First Month. ANATHEMA! So you openly LIE again, telling us Matthew, Mark & Luke all tell us that on the day the Passover must be sacrificed, the 128 disciples “prepared the Passover”, which necessarily means, they sacrificed their own Passover lamb. RUBBISH! Matthew, just like Mark just like Luke all tell us that on the day the Passover would like always had to be sacrificed— Imperative in Luke and Imperfect in Mark and Matthew, the disciples “prepared”, “SO THAT”—Subjunctive or Future Subjunctively— the passover could be eaten BY THE JEWS, after sunset that day. Which did not happen because 1) NO ONE COULD MOVE so thick was the darkness exactly the time of day everybody would have been busy with their passover drills under normal circumstances on the day they KILLED the passover. And which did not happen because 2) of all the Supernatural, Predestined, Divine upsetting of all official temple and sacrificial services on That Day. The Jews did not eat the passover in that first night of ULB because 3) Jesus was THE END OF THE LAW and the Fulfilment of all Types and Prophecies “concerning the Christ” IN HIMSELF. The last passover of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God Our Passover was the Passover of Yahweh. Jesus had departed on his long journey to another Kingdom, “The Kingdom of God”–”The Kingdom of My Father”, “To prepare a place for you”—from which He would after a short while “IN THREE DAYS”, “ON THE SABBATH”, come back again, and his disciples would be where He would be: “in the Kingdom of God’s Dear Son”, “The Kingdom of LIGHT.” And they, and Jesus would “in the Kingdom of God again with you eat of the Bread, and again with you, drink of the Wine that He “GAVE THEM AND SAID, EAT, THIS IS MY BODY; AND DRINK, THIS IS MY BLOOD”. IN THIS Jesus fulfilled the Whole-Day BONE-DAY of the Passover of Yahweh, IN THAT He fulfilled BOTH the fourteenth day of the First Month and the fifteenth day of the First Month, IN ONE DAY—, IN “THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD”—, yea, indeed in that He fulfilled “THE 129

GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD”: “IN THREE DAYS”—, the “three days” of “three days and three nights” in their God-given and therefore eschatological IMPERATIVE WHOLE AND WHOLENESS [Lohmeyer] fulfilled in the “APPOINTED”, “GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD”.

Rubies: Luk 24:34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” Luk 24:36 As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” John tells us that this day was still the same day, the THIRD DAY, SUNDAY, in the evening (which is NOT “after sunset”): Joh 20:18 MARY MAGDALENE went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”—and that he had said these things to her. 19 ON THE EVENING {opsios} of THAT DAY, the FIRST DAY of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

GE: The too clever faked Rubies again! Hahaha you think everything you LIE will pass for truth! As I said before, God does not only listen and hear you speak lies; He READS and pays ATTENTION to your lies. THIS lie of yours could not elude me; how do you think it is going to get past God? You act like a fearless unbeliever and atheist would. Now I can see why John wrote in Revelation 22:18, “For I testify unto every man that heareth the Words of the Prophecy of this book [concerning “the Everlasting Gospel” of Jesus Christ]: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that were written in this book : And if any man shall take away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of 130

Life.” I have always wondered why. Now I can see why: It is because God is not a God of confusion. That is why God shall take people’s names out of the Book of Life if they will take away or add to his written Word. Just read the faked Rubies, If this were what John tells us, why did he not write it to his own generation?! Why did John not write anything near? Because he did not tell, or write, anything near, to anyone near or far. Rubies is blatantly taunting God as He most definitely did, make it clear what will happen to anyone who added to or took away from his Word! Meantime all this brazen confusion is hailed for worship of God; but in reality it is open worship of Sunday.

LomaLindaProf: Jou ou Ka..r poephol! Rubies and Greg know what they are talking about, but Gehard is a sore loooooser! Very un- Christlike like the bush-dwellers of South Africa who killed morecthan 3000 farmers. Sies !

Reg: Hello Gerard by your post you are saying you only believe parts of the bible that John 10:22-12:11 is out numbered 3 to 1 with the first 3 gospels when you can tell me you accept God’s 10C of how we are to live in harmony with God and our fellow man you will know the truth and it will set you free to know it then you will be able to discuss truth and you will be led by the Holy Spirit your comments to others give you away Jesus NEVER SPOKE LIKE YOU brother if your aiming at eternal life read MT 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 131

GE: A little Greek erudition may be appropriate … Quoting Rubies: In Rubies’ English we see a Dative Noun with Article rendering one ‘Greek’, ‘word’, <{opsios}>. is a Greek word; but not a Noun—not EVENING, not THE EVENING, not ON THE EVENING, not a DATIVE. Because is not a Noun, but an Adverb. From comes the Adjective ‘ópsimos’, in James 5:7 “until he receives the early and the late rain”—‘héohs lábehi próïmon kai ópsimon (huetós)—Singular Masculine Accusative. Therefore, If John tells us that this day was still the same day, the THIRD DAY, SUNDAY,… THAT DAY, the FIRST DAY of the week—, six times!, the would have been, A) an Adjective not an Adverb, ; and it would have been, B) Feminine not Masculine ; and it would have been, C) Dative not Nominative . It would have been --- NOT Rubies’ contraption, ! So Rubies again shows and proves she does not know what she is talking, never mind all the other irrelevancies she depends on and all the contradictions she creates through her anachronistic failed attempt at synchronising Luke 24 and John 20.

Rubies: OPSIOS means, “afternoon (early evening) or nightfall (later evening).” That is from Strong's dictionary, which YOU say is correct. NOT “after midnight” as you would have it by this time, Reg. Your crank theory Reg, says that Mary Magdalene met the risen Jesus after sunset on Satuirday night. But the Word of God tells you that is a LIE. 132

GE: You both lie. Rubies and Reg. And you lie, Rubies, that in Strong's dictionary! First quote Strong’s verbatim, letter for letter here—‘copied & pasted’—, that we all can read Strong’s and not Rubies’ faked rubies. This mess of yours is purposely so messed up that it should be unanswerable. You disqualified yourself as qualified for this conversation. But there it stands written in John itself, the ONLY authority in this matter. And it does not stand written <{OPSIOS}> like you - lying Rubies - typed it here. John 19:20 wrote, “Being then / therefore ‘o-p-s-i-a-s’—with an ‘-a-‘, not an o. O yes, it makes a big difference! It makes the difference between ‘afternoon’(or ‘nightfall’)—‘opsi-o- s’—‘late’ in the day, and “the evening”—‘opsi-a-s’ in John 19:20—, which is the same difference between “it BEING EVENING with reference to that day the First Day of the week” in John 20:19, and “it being TOWARD evening the day far spent (on the First Day of the week)” in Luke 24:29.

Rubies: Reg, you tell us that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus AFTER sunset on Saturday night, BEFORE the men walked to Emmaus. But the men travelling to Emmaus said the women had discovered the tomb empty and Jesus risen, EARLY THAT SAME MORNING, which according to you ought to be SATURDAY MORNING.

GE: Where does it say in Luke 24 that ? You both are tempting God. Expert theologians and you still cannot understand the simplest biblical concepts, yet you imagine that you alone, of all the billions who ever lived, understand the chronology of Jesus’ 133

Last Passover correctly. What is more, you both believe that your mess of lies is the saving Gospel. That means you are preaching “A DIFFERENT GOSPEL” —the traditions and commandments of men and inspiring devils.

Rubies: Joh 20:1 Now ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK MARY MAGDALENE came to the tomb early, {proi} while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2 So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” “While it was STILL dark” means, as it was dawning after the night. NOT “as it was getting darker after daylight.” The word “early” is PROI, which means, “early in the morning; dawn; the daybreak watch.” Put that in your Newberry KJV and smoke it.

GE: Rubies’ first lie, here, Joh 20:1 <>. The truth, here, John 20:1, “Now on the First Day of the week Mary Magdalene comes EARLY OF DARK STILL BEING —‘prohï skotias eti ousehs’—to the tomb”--- not just early, <{proi}>. It is no truth if it is not the WHOLE truth. Rubies’ second lie, here, Truth is, here, “on the First Day being early of dark still”— not , but “dark / darkness / night BEING EARLY STILL”. Rubies’ third lie, here, . Truth here, again is, “on the First Day being early dark still”— before, the rest of the night … as it was dusk before—IN 134

FACT, as it was getting darker, after, daylight! Rubies’ fourth lie, here, is, . Truth here, again, is, “on the First Day being still EARLY dark”— “STILL (the) early OF dark”. Rubies’ fifth lie, here, . Truth here, again is, “on the First Day being still EARLY dark”— “being still (the) EARLY, OF, dark”— “being still (the) early (evening) of the NIGHT / dark / darkness”. Rubies’ sixth lie, here, is, The truth here, is, it is NOT the WORD here; it is the PHRASE or CLAUSE, ‘prohï skotias eti ousehs’— “(the) early of dark still being”… which means just what it literally spells –, no twisting or cutting out or adding to just what it says—which does NOT mean early in the morning; dawn; the daybreak watch. Put that in your smoked Rubies’ brains and don’t fake it!

Rubies: Reg, you tell us that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus AFTER sunset on Saturday night, BEFORE the men walked to Emmaus. But the men travelling to Emmaus said the women had discovered the tomb empty and Jesus risen, EARLY THAT SAME MORNING, which according to you ought to be SATURDAY MORNING.

GE: Thus do true chums in fraud stick together in their lying—their lying never is the same; the one’s lying always gives away the lies and lying of the other and his own. VERY EFFECTIVE spying and double-crossing Crossites’ lies! Rubies ALSO maintains that John 20:1 tell(s) us that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus—, only not AFTER sunset on Saturday night, but 135

BEFORE sunrise SATURDAY MORNING. It’s like the two thieves who shared their bottle of stolen sherry. Said the one to the other, You choose first which halve you want. I want the top halve, said his mate. That’s fine with me, said the one, But now it’s my turn to choose, and I choose to drink first. Reg chose Mary saw Jesus the first halve of night while Rubies chose she saw Him the last halve of night. But John chose Mary not at all saw Jesus the whole of night! Because John tells us that Mary saw the STONE cast away from the tomb “while still being early of dark (that night)”; not that she saw Jesus at all! Then John again tells us that Mary saw Jesus while thinking she saw the gardener in the garden— which Mark tells us, was—, “early on the First Day of the week” at sunrise AFTER the whole of that night.

Rubies: I SHOWED YOU that the exact phrase which you imagine refers exclusively to “Bone Day,” is either “ETSEM HA'YOM HA'ZEH” or “ETSEM YOM,” and it is used EIGHTEEN TIMES, for many different days of the year, none of which is “Bone Day.”

GE: I, told you – and everybody everywhere else IN THE WHOLE WORLD at any time ever else, that “ETSEM YOM” is used EIGHTEEN TIMES. You informed me, on NOTHING concerning the “bone-day” in the Scriptures, EVER, you empty headed Queen posing King of Toads hypocrite! Now what is it after all that you SHOWED me, if you showed me exactly what I showed you, that “ETSEM HA'YOM HA'ZEH” or “ETSEM YOM” is used EIGHTEEN TIMES?! Vanity! Vanity which you showed me FALSELY claiming it 136

While YOU, write, <<“ETSEM YOM,” and it is used EIGHTEEN TIMES>> … — <“Bone Day”> — ‘ETSEM’— Bone : ‘YOM’— Day!?

Rubies: Alex, as you requested. I agree with you about the misleading translation “on the first day of unleavened bread, which technically should read, “before unleavened bread.” But also let us remember that in the vernacular, “Pesach” and “Azumon” had both come to be interchangeable terms referring to the entire 8 days from 14 – 21 Nisan.

GE: The misleading about the , is not that it . That is sheer faked Rubies’ nonsense. The misleading about the misleading translation “on the first day of unleavened bread”, is that there are no words ‘day’, ‘bread’, or, ‘feast’, as found in the KJV in Mark 14:12 and Matthew 26:17—, Like I have explained in this discussion more than once before. The correct translation translates only what is written in these texts, and that is, that it was “on the first day when they REMOVED LEAVEN AND KILLED the passover”. Which things were on and were one, and the same day the fourteenth day of the First Month when “they kept passover” which was “on the fourteenth day” per se Exodus 12:5 Leviticus 23:6 et al, AS WELL AS “on the fourteenth UNTIL the one and twentieth day of the (First) month”. Exodus 12:18 et al---viz., ‘passover’ per se Abib 14 PLUS passover “seven days ULB” on Abib 15 until 21. Exodus 12:15,19 et al. There is therefore no indication of, or reference to, or connection with, or provocation for, that Mark 14:12 and Matthew 26:17 . 137

But HISTORICALLY, it is unambiguous and undeniable that these texts, Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 IN PASSOVER SEQUENCE fell “on the day BEFORE the Feast” John 13:1, “in the same night in which He was betrayed (and in which) He took bread”, 1Corinthians 11:23. Because these texts Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 John 13:1 1Corinthians 11:23, strictly—i.e., —i.e., stripped of bias, historically and numerically were the day , and referred to it. In this sense, You Rubies, are dead right—but DEAD, right!

. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p191 GE: My post 4011 above, http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-d... herewith cancelled and replaced! Basic arithmetic the Rubies way, yea. As follows : <…the day when … the new year's … Wave-sheaf was reaped … was … SUNDAY. The DAY AFTER THE SABBATH.> But the SABBATH the Sabbath of the week which not at all except by unconditional coincidence occurred on the SAME DAY as the new year's [day when the] new year's Wave-sheaf was reaped.” The Wave sheaf was reaped, Leviticus 23:21,22 tells, when “Ye shall proclaim on the BONE-DAY … WHEN YE REAP (that) thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field”. “Ye shall REAP the harvest, THEN ye shall BRING a sheaf of the firstfruits to the priest.” “On that day on which you REAP the sheaf, on that day you shall BRING the sheaf.” 138

“And / then on the day after the sabbath”—Leviticus 23:10,11 — “after the sabbath” after you shall have reaped and after you shall have brought the wave sheaf / first sheaf on:— “the priest shall wave it (the first sheaf / the wave sheaf) before the LORD”. Now what day came before the passover-sabbath? The day the first sheaf was REAPED AND BROUGHT on! Was that not the day they killed the sacrifice? It was!

Rubies: IT WAS NOT!!! THERE IS NO 'BONE-DAY'!!! You cannot read or understand or write plain English, and you have no idea what you are talking about. The Wave-sheaf was reaped on the first day of the week, the day following the Sabbath which fell during the week of Unleavened Bread ... whether that Sabbath fell on the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th or 21st.

Alex: GE I have to agree with Rubies here - there is no BONE DAY - selfsame means “in that very day”

GE: If there is no “BONE-DAY” in the Scriptures, then you, go and DELETE them where they are WRITTEN: 'etsem yom'—“bone-day”, at least 20 times at least 12 of which the EXCLUSIVE “WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY THAT SELFSAME DAY” OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH. Just keep in mind my friend, you, are going to have to SCRATCH THEM TROUGH and erase them out of THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH. Alright now, go ahead, and make note of which WORDS OF GOD you, got rid of! Which day did they kill the passover / offering / sacrifice on? “On the fourteenth day of the First Month”! What was the fourteenth 139 day of the First Month’s, passover- name? “The BONE DAY ye have brought an offering / made a sacrifice / kept the passover unto your God.” Leviticus 23:14. What day came before the day Abib 16 that the priest waved the first sheaf on?... “…the sabbath”— “that day great day of sabbath” of the passover Abib15. And before it:— :21 “YE, shall… “ye shall PROCLAIM” it on the “BONE-DAY”… :22 “…Bone-Day WHEN YE REAP”… :14 “the selfsame BONE DAY… (that) it may be an holy convocation to you and (that) ye shall “do no servile work therein—a “STATUTE throughout your generations.” BOTH 14 and 15 Abib were “the selfsame BONE-DAY” in Exodus 12 and in Leviticus are separated and DATED respectively Abib 14 and 15. God “carried (them) out on everlasting arms”; “Thou in Thy Mercy has led forth the people … Thy Right Hand, O LORD, is become Glorious in Power”; Exodus 12:13,6. His “Right Hand”— “Mighty Hand” Deuteronomy 5:15 et al brought God’s People out. So “the sabbath” on which the first sheaf for one day rested over for to be waved on the day after it, was ALSO DATED “TO ITS SEASON” in Leviticus the same as “the selfsame BONE-DAY” in Exodus 12— “the very day” on which Israel the typical first sheaf of “JOSEPH”—was “BROUGHT FORTH OUT [and rested from slave labour] on the fifteenth day of the First Month”. “Thus saith the LORD” in his WORD the Holy Scriptures of true and universal Christiandom:— “three days”:— 1) “the very first day removed leaven and killed the passover” Abib 14; 140

2) “the next day”— “the first day seven days unleavened bread … the sabbath”, “that day sabbath great day” of the passover Abib 15 the first sheaf rested over for to be waved the next day; 3) “And on the day after the sabbath”- after “great day” of passover, the priest shall wave the first sheaf:— on Abib 16 which “TO ITS SEASON, YE, shall PROCLAIM”. Israel / Joseph was not “brought forth out” on the Sabbath Day of the creation week, but on the day before the Sabbath Day of the creation week—the same day that Joseph buried the body of Jesus on— not on “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”! Not after “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD” on SUNDAY! But Israel was “brought FORTH OUT”, ON “the sabbath”—“the sabbath BEFORE “the day after the sabbath”. And verily in the same manner Our Passover came out of Egypt’s living hell of slavery on the cross, on “that day great day sabbath of” the passover and was BURIED on it—, “the sabbath BEFORE “the day AFTER the sabbath”. As our “First Sheaf Before the LORD” on “That Day Bone-Day” of his Burial, Our Passover was “laid” in the tomb and like the bones of Joseph in a “coffin”, ‘rested over’ in anticipation of his Resurrection “on the day after the sabbath” of the passover, “because God thus concerning the Seventh Day had always spoken.”

Alex: The Lords Passover Day was on the 14th and the celebration of the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Passover night. Christ was alive for the first on the 14th hence the Last Supper but was buried by the time of the Feast on the 15th.

GE: First part, right! Second part, wrong, and, AGAINST SCRIPTURE. Christ was dead, by the time of the Feast on the 15th was to 141 start or in fact “when evening had come already … and since it was the Preparation and because that day was great day of sabbath (of the passover), the Jews asked Pilate to get the bodies removed on (that) sabbath (of the passover).” Mark 15:42 and John 19:31. Christ was finished buried, John 19:42, “by the time of the Jews’ preparations to start”—‘dia tehn paraskeuehn tou Ioudaiohn’; “mid-afternoon (on the 15th) the (prospective) Sabbath … according to the (Fourth) Commandment … nearing”. Luke 23:54. Alex, the evening came in between after Jesus had died and everybody had fled away and left Him forlorn on the cross until Joseph arrived after the Jews had asked Pilate to have the crosses and bodies removed and Joseph at last “IN THE FIRST NIGHT” of ulb could BEGIN his undertaking to bury Jesus. Joseph finished to bury according to the Law and closed the grave “mid-afternoon on that day”—‘Friday’, and the TWO Marys could go home to prepare their spices and for the Sabbath on which they “began to rest according to the Law”, “from evening”. Alex, no Gospel tells anything different than the others, and what the Gospels all four of them without any discrepancies between the four of them tell, is what you see here quoted. Jesus’ Passover of Yahweh must be your point of view into the past; not v.v.. But you can use the first passover as point of view on Jesus’ Last Passover; it will make NO DIFFERENCE. It’s all the same. He was NOT killed and buried the same day. I know the Scriptures you may try to use to contradict the fact. Bring them here, so we may search them as we are instructed to do as CHRISTIANS. YOU, will see yourself, they teach 1)”BURIED THE NEXT DAY” and 2) “STAY THE NIGHT on the tree (but) NOT ALL NIGHT”, and 3) “REMOVE BEFORE DAYLIGHT”—not remove before sunset as alleged without ANY grounds! 142

Alex: I don't see a problem.

GE: I am sure GOD sees a BIG problem here. Friday crossites and Wednesday crossites compete who can be the most holy haughtiest omniscient, right here.

Rubies: Nicodemus was the man who “first came to JESUS by night”

GE: … Rubies herself again the lying deceiver with deliberate falsehoods in mind, part quoting John 19:39 while insidiously fraudulently coupling John 19:39 to John 7:50! Proof!: It stands written in John 19:39, “Nicodemus who came to him the first night”--- NOT IN John 7:50! Does it say in John 7:50, “Nicodemus who came to him THE FIRST NIGHT”? No! Was Nicodemus the first man who came to Jesus by night? What about the three wise men who came to Jesus by night the night He was born---in fact ‘the first night’ in his life? So why say Nicodemus was the man who first came to Jesus by night?! It is not Nicodemus the first; it is “the NIGHT the first”! The word ‘Jesus’ is absent in the best and oldest and, in most, manuscripts. Remember Erasmus was a Roman Catholic who naturally would prefer any exceptional manuscript that gives Mary ---‘Mary the mother of God’--- pre-eminence regardless its age or quality or genuineness. The word ‘Jesus’ is absent in original and authentic Greek. That’s the fact. You can kick your heels mushy against the pricks --- just like you do against Jesus’ passover Bone Day --- it won’t help you or change the truth of the Scriptures. It was Joseph of Arimathea to whom 143

“the first night” of seven no leavened bread was to be eaten, “Nicodemus also, came”.

Rubies: Gerhard wrote: “Dear poor unfortunate bereaved Rubies, did I not tell you to use PATIENCE with Topix SDA? I did, but you must have thought it’s just my peace-offering cup of poisoned coffee …. Wiete gegooi die sjeef innie koffie … Koffie A-Naanbrood? YOU HAVE TO _WAIT_ BETWEEN POSTS! Or you will LOOSE posts --- like I have many times. JUST RE-POST them! Why can’t you re-post them?! Shucks one would swear _I_ let _your_ posts disappear, are you silly or not?! I have explained to you many times, with documented evidence, that MANY of the posts I have made have been DELETED BY TOPIX. I always copy and save the webpages with my completed, #numbered posts published thereon. However, next time I come to town, those #NUMBERS have been deleted. There are MISSING #NUMBERS on the Topix pages, which keep getting condensed due to so many deletions. I have also told you that I will then re-post those same articles, which will be published an #numbered, and saved those pages. But next visit, THEY ARE ALSO GONE again. This has happened in numerous instances, 3 or 4 times over for the same post #s. I have pointed out that Topix has also done this to YOUR POSTS GERHARD, which is often a blessing, as they are so frequently peppered with foul language and homicidal threats against other posters. However, I do have a file named “TOPIX DELETED THESE POSTS” which contains not only MY deleted posts, but YOURS as well. 144

Kindly READ AND UNDERSTAND what people write. Quit going off half-cocked and making a blaspheming idiot of yourself! At your perilously advanced age, you ought to remember the motto, “Never lose your dignity.”

GE: At my perilous advanced age, I have learned man has no dignity, what dignity to loose! I am so glad I am not a born and bred Englishman or American or Anglo-Saxon or whatever sort of Soutie but a BOER who can write 'proper English' only well enough to frustrate and anger and cause havoc and desperation among all SUNDAY CRUCIFIXIONIST FRIDAY CROSSITE FREAKS ! Madam, In Christ Jesus the Saviour of his own, I AM PERFECT and have ALL DIVINE DIGNITY, having been forgiven through God's grace every and all my inherited as well as cultivated INDIGNITY IN MYSELF. Proud am I to say like Paul: I, am the chief of sinners. So forget to try to improve me, please?

Rubies: Jesus being “wrapped in cloth” and spices and laid on the bench in the tomb, WAS the complete burial. The women intended to bring extra spices to cover Him after the Sabbath – in addition to the 75 or 100 lbs that Nicodemus had already supplied. This was their offering to the Lord, much as we might place flowers on a grave today. But Jesus HAD been “properly buried” and nobody intended to remove His body and put it in a hole in the ground.

GE: Yes, Jesus “laid in the tomb”, was, the COMPLETE, burial. It was the complete Burial WHEN Joseph “had the stone rolled before the grave’s opening”, and, “had left” and also the two Marys had “left and returned home and prepared spices and 145 ointments”. Not before! Then, was it the end of the burial— exactly the SAME time of day when Jesus on the day BEFORE, breathed his last breath and died “the ninth hour” = “mid-afternoon” = ‘3 p.m.’, and the approaching day of the Crucifixion 3 hours later sunset 6 p.m., would begin. Then, was it the END of the burial, not it’s beginning but the latter opposite of its beginning. When and where began the day on which Joseph had to bury the body of Jesus? Here: “After these things” John 19:38. Which ‘things’? The “things” which happened from John 19:31 to verse 37— excluding of course John’s usual parentheses like in verse 24, the casting of lots for Jesus’ garment the morning already when He was still alive and before they had even nailed Him to the cross. Which “things” therefore? The fact “evening already had come” Mark 15:42 — the fact of the Jews’ consternation “since it had become the Preparation and that day was great day sabbath” John 19:31 — of their most sacred national feast and the crosses were still standing in open sight of both the Jewish faithful and their oppressors! Therefore wrote John, “After THESE things…”. Only “after these things” (of the Jews’ request to REMOVE THE ROMAN CROSSES), was Joseph able to ask Pilate for Jesus’ body in order “to bury” Him according to the “ethical law” of the Passover of Yahweh, the Torah the following prospective night and day. Because the Law demanded the interment of “that which remained” of the Passover Sacrifice, that it should be “burned with fire” and returned to the dust of the earth “the next day” after He had been “killed on the fourteenth”. Thus real was the death of the Son of God that He HAD to be BURIED “IN THE FLESH”. “Mid-afternoon the Sabbath approaching” Luke 23:54 “by the 146 time of the Jews’ preparations (for the “approaching Sabbath”)” to begin, which preparations would go on until sunset which meant three more hours for “preparation” before sunset “that day (which) was The Preparation” RUNNING OUT before “the (weekly) Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment”, Joseph had FINISHED with Jesus’ Burial “the Selfsame Whole Day Bone Day” of Abib 15. Jesus had to be properly buried; He was, properly buried “as was the customary ethics of the Jews to bury”, “according to the Law and Prophets … it behoved the Christ to suffer pascha.”

Rubies: “Last Supper” is an invented term. It is not found in scripture's accounts of Jesus' final meal. However, “PASSOVER” is used of this final meal, in Luke 22:15. The disciples “prepared the Passover,” as Matthew, Mark and Luke teach us. This preparation could only be done on 14 Nisan. The room for the Passover feast had, after all, ALREADY been prepared (Mark 14:15). All that remained to do was kill and roast the lamb. Also make some unleavened bread. Takes just a few minutes; I do it all the time. “Preparing the Passover” means, killing the lamb and roasting it on the afternoon of 14 Nisan.

GE: Thank you. If Rubies told us means, , we can take for granted at least part of what she tells us is true. The part we may believe in this case, is, “Preparing the Passover” means, . True! 147

But you should better not believe, . You should also not believe what Rubies avers, So take care not to believe anything Rubies says! Never! Like where she claims, that. No; that is not Matthew Mark or Luke or John for that matter; that is just Rubie’s in bad taste joking lie. Don’t believe anything the faked Rubies openly lies. NOTHING of what she says, is true; EVERYTHING is a covert lie of some sort in some obscure way. Like 1) It was not That’s simply an open opportunist lie! 3) That is a very dumb lie; Make ulb with leavened dow? At the beginning of the day on which leaven still had to be removed? That is silly! So at last the faked Rubies openly comes to the fore with her faked religion, It Whether the Rubies means only the it takes her to roast her unleavened bread or also her — it makes no difference, it is a totally FAKED religion! But the Scriptures say in Exodus 12:8, e.g., “They shall eat the flesh in that night, ROAST WITH FIRE”. That means they ate it off the fire. They ate it as it were, “with fire” AND “WITH THE FLESH”. Where is your lamb’s flesh Rubies!? They ate it “as is without anything”. Idiom for that was, “bitter”; they ate it “with bitter” or with bitterness—the FLESH! You want to roast Reg because he claims the lamb was slaughtered after sunset, but you do the same?! 148

In this short extract from one of your posts, Rubies, you have used the word(s) prepare, 4 times or 6 if you count the three Gospels which you mentioned. And you CONCLUDED with stating this, <> Now why did you say <<“PREPARE the PASSOVER”= HETOIMAZO>>? How could you say, to <<“PREPARE” the Passover is a different word, unrelated to PARASKEUE>>!? How could you say, <>!?

. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p192 Rubies: It was forbidden to kill it on one day and eat it at any other time than the evening immediately following sunset of that day.

GE: Untrue! You directly contradict the truth which required – ordered - to kill the passover on one day and eat it in the evening immediately following sunset—after—and not <… of>, .

Rubies: It was forbidden to kill it on one day and eat it at any other time than the evening immediately following sunset of that day.

GE: 149

No. The passover in Egypt was eaten “late” in the night BEFORE “midnight”, AFTER sunset, AFTER the daylight first half of day, but “on the Selfsame Bone-Day … on the fourteenth day of the month” in which the sacrifice was slaughtered “midafternoon” BEFORE its sunset.

Rubies: It was forbidden to kill it on one day and eat it at any other time than the evening immediately following sunset of that day. Therefore the meal that Jesus ate with His disciples, MUST have been the Passover lamb. Indeed, the descriptions of the meal confirm that they followed the traditional procedure for eating the Passover lamb, gathered in a company of at least 10 people, drinking the 4 cups of wine, dipping the unleavened bread into the dish and sharing it, saying prayers and singing psalms etc. Alfred Edersheim and Joseph S. C. F. Frey both wrote comprehensively about this. Also, “before the feast of the Passover” takes us right up to the time on the night of 15 Nisan as everyone was about to eat the Passover lamb, doesn't it? It was at this meal that Jesus, according to the other gospels, humbled Himself to the status of a servant and washed the disciples' feet – which is surely as loving a thing as could be imagined on such an occasion. So John, the disciple who above all others, taught us of the loving heart of Jesus, does not contradict the synoptics here at all.

GE: There are so many discrepancies in this one post of Rubies they can fill books when exposed. It’s wormwood from the first to the last words. <… kill it on one day … eat it … the evening … of that day>?! <… that day…>, Abib 14 or Abib 15?! No. 150

Kill on Abib 14; eat it on Abib 15. Kill 3 p.m. “mid-afternoon” on Abib 14’ But: Eat in the “evening”/”night” on Abib 15. Eat “the hour”, “when having become evening already” on Abib 15, Luke 22:7,14 Mark 14:12,17. Therefore Kill 3 p.m. “on the first day the REMOVED leaven and killed the passover” on Abib 14. Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 1Corinthian 11:23. But, “eat … evening already having come” on Abib 15. Luke 23:50 Mark 15:42 Matthew27:57 John 19:31,38,39. Before “the Lord’s Supper”— before “the meal”— “before the Feast” John 12:23,27; 13:1, Jesus said to them, “My, hour is come”; “Now, is my soul troubled.” And after the Lord’s Supper Jesus said to them, “This is your, hour”, and Luke said, “their day came”. So: At the first and last passovers “on the first day seven days ulb shall be eaten : WITH THE FLESH”: “the first night”: “this that BONE DAY : NIGHT”: “evening already having come” on Abib 15, “there came to him (Joseph) Nicodemus”. Therefore: At the first and last passovers on Abib 14 “on the first DAY ye, first, shall remove leaven” Exodus 12:15b. At the first and last passovers on Abib 14, 3 p.m.: “Ye shall KILL the passover”. Numbers 28:16. “Ye shall kill it late”—‘ereb’ Exodus 12:6,15a “Ye shall kill it mid-afternoon”—‘behn-ha-arba-y im’ Leviticus 23:5 At the first and last passovers on Abib 14, 3 p.m., “on the first day they had removed leaven and killed ‘Our’ Passover”, “late”, “mid-afternoon”, “the ninth hour”—Mark 14:12; 15:34 Matthew 26:17; 27:46 Luke 22:7; 23:44 John 13:1; 19:30 1Corinthian 15:3. At the first passover “this day—the FOURTEENTH day— 151 shall be to you a FEAST” Exodus 12:14 —EAT unleavened bread LATE” [‘ereb’] Exodus 12:18. But on all passovers thereafter, “On the FIFTEENTH day of the month is the FEAST seven days ye must EAT unleavened bread the first day.” Numbers 28:17a. So from “the first day unleavened bread on the FIFTEENTH” in Leviticus 23:6,7, until “the one and twentieth day” in Exodus 12:18b are “seven days unleavened bread”, was eaten. It was eaten “late”—‘ereb’ in the OT Numbers 28:17b = “evening”—‘opsia’ in the NT. At in between passovers on Abib 14, 3 p.m., they KILLED the passover, “late”—‘ereb’ Deuteronomy 16:6 Numbers 9:3,5. But AFTER the exodus: “ye shall EAT late…” And after the exodus: “…EAT it on Abib 15 “the hour” “when having become evening already”. Rubies therefore speaks against her own better knowing and conscience, having posted <>

Rubies: It was forbidden to kill the passover on one day and eat it at any other time than the evening immediately following sunset of that day. Therefore the meal that Jesus ate with His disciples, MUST have been the Passover lamb.

GE: To eat is to assimilate corruptible with corruptible—to bury. Therefore “the evening immediately following sunset of that day” “they killed the passover on”, was the day they buried the passover sacrifice which remained over on, in this case, “the body of Jesus” in full substance of flesh and “no bone of Him broken or severed”.

Rubies: The descriptions of the meal confirm that they followed the 152 traditional procedure for eating the Passover lamb, gathered in a company of at least 10 people, drinking the 4 cups of wine, dipping the unleavened bread into the dish and sharing it, saying prayers and singing psalms etc. Alfred Edersheim and Joseph S. C. F. Frey both wrote comprehensively about this.

GE: Many other misapprehending and misinformed did.

Rubies: Also, “before the feast of the Passover” takes us right up to the time on the night of 15 Nisan as everyone was about to eat the Passover lamb, doesn't it?

GE: It sure does! Which makes your claim that the passover lamb was eaten at its beginning in the “evening” of the fourteenth day, null and void. Cant’ you see —right from, the night of the fourteenth!

Rubies: It was at this meal that Jesus, according to the other gospels, humbled Himself to the status of a servant and washed the disciples' feet – which is surely as loving a thing as could be imagined on such an occasion. So John, the disciple who above all others, taught us of the loving heart of Jesus, does not contradict the synoptics here at all.

GE: Yes, “on the first day they killed the passover … when it was already evening and the Preparation Day” that Jesus according to the Gospel of John, . 10 11 14 Gloria in excelsis Deo et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis. 153

Rubies: Wheat Firstfruits must necessarily have fallen on SUNDAY, as it was the day following the series of 7 full weeks or 7 complete SABBATHS. That is – 49 days after the day following the SABBATH, is the day following the SEVENTH SABBATH. 50 days prior to the SUNDAY of the Wheat Firstfruits is the SABBATH (SATURDAY) during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The next day, Wave-sheaf, is “the faday after the Sabbath,” and it is also 7 complete Sabbaths = 49 days before Feast of Weeks. There is simply no other way to add up the 7 full weeks (7 complete Sabbaths) and come to the day after the 7th Sabbath, which = 50 days from the Sabbath during ULB, unless both days of Firstfruits fall on the FIRST DAY of the WEEK. NO DATES are ever given for these 2 Appointed Feasts. The only way to determine them, according to the Lord, is by COUNTING from the SABBATH. First count ONE DAY from the SABBATH, then add on ANOTHER 7 SABBATHS = 49 DAYS = 50 DAYS from the Sabbath = the DAY AFTER the 7th SABBATH.

GE: the fiftieth day, was, “first”, “counting from”, “the day after the sabbath (to its season) … the sabbath YOU must appoint to its SEASON”— “the fifteenth Day of the First Month”. Therefore “first” “counting from” and including the sixteenth day of the month. HOW must be counted? “Seven Sabbaths-weeks complete, and, the day after the seventh Sabbath-week the fiftieth day.” Leviticus 23:15,16. That is, first counting the seven weeks 154 then add one day after them, the fiftieth day. It is not ; it was “count from the day after the sabbath” of the passover. It is not <50 DAYS from the Sabbath = the DAY AFTER the 7th SABBATH>. It is not or the First Day of the week, . In Leviticus as during the exodus itself, God predestined “the day after the sabbath”—“after the sabbath … to its season”, that historically, it would be and, was, the Seventh Day Sabbath. Therefore in Leviticus the “seven sabbaths-weeks” began on and with the Seventh Day Sabbath so that the fiftieth day after “the sabbath to its season” of Abib 15, would again be and again was, the Seventh Day Sabbath and the fiftieth of the fifty days of the “seven Sabbaths-weeks and the day after the seventh Sabbaths-week”. Leviticus speaks about literal “seven Sabbaths’-weeks” every one ending with and on the Sixth Day of each literal “Sabbaths’-week”. Changed in later times after the exodus, it became “weeks-of- sevens”-‘hebdomas’ referenced in Deuteronomy 16 instead of “Sabbaths’-week” referenced in Leviticus. Why? Only because “the sabbath to its season”, Abib 15, through the years occurred on any day of the “Sabbaths’-week”. That is also why Deuteronomy speaks of the first day the harvest actually began full-day as the beginning-day of “seven of seven (day)s- weeks”—forty nine days—, and does not like Leviticus, take into account that “the day after the seventh Sabbaths’-week”, was “fifty days”.

Rubies: NO DATES are ever given for these 2 Appointed Feasts.

GE: That is not the case. And Rosends claims it is all about 155

! Now whom shall be believed? Neither! In fact there are no or, by the phrase, “the day after the sabbath”, but the DAY —“BONE-DAY”, by its NAME as the only “Bone-Day” in the Scriptures— the one and only “Bone-Day” “to its season”, of the passover. In any case, , are, their just the same as they are their sacrifices. The separation between the days their dates and there sacrifices is as artificial as the religion demanding it.

Rubies: The KARAITES (successors of the SADDUCEES) correctly observe both Feasts of Firstfruits on the first days of the week, following the scriptural admonition. They also begin the year as God commanded, after the first Aviv barley has been found at the end of the 12th or 13th month Adar. Exo 9:31 The flax and the barley were struck down, for the BARLEY was ABIB and the flax was in bud. 32 But the wheat and the emmer were not struck down, for they are late in coming up. Exo 12:1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, 2 “THIS MONTH shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you.” The ESSENES also invariably observed both days of Firstfruits on SUNDAYS, and referred to the Pharisees as, “The Wicked Priest who went wrong in their calendar and kept the Lord's Feasts on the wrong days.” However, they began their Omer count from the Sabbath following the full week of ULB. They began every year with 1 Nisan on Wednesday. Their Feasts fell on the same days of the week each year, with 14 Nisan always being on Tuesday. So the Essene Wave-sheaf was always on Sunday 26th Nisan, and their Feast of Weeks was always on Sunday 15th Sivan. 156

GE: …says Rubies … says Rubies having heard something about Karaites and Essenes neither who believed in Christ the Substance.

Rubies: The PHARISEES (now RABBINS) are the odd men out here.

GE: No choice between the three groups of non-Christian unbelieving anti-Christs has been mandated the Christian.

Rubies: The Pharisees arbitrarily place Wave-sheaf on 16 Nisan and Feast of Weeks on 6th Sivan, whichever day of the week these dates may fall on, even though there is NO scriptural authority for this.

GE: In this matter, it is vice versa what Rubies claims. In this matter—believing Rubies about them—it is the Saducees and Karaites and Essenes who on own authority act arbitrarily and the Pharisees who act on . Because the Scriptures place Abib 15 “the sabbath … ye shall proclaim … to its season”! It cannot be simpler or more unambiguous. Because God talks straight and single-minded; not like man with forked tongue from divided heart.

Rubies: ... the weekly Sabbath (that is … the ONLY SABBATH EVER mentioned in the N.T.= the WEEKLY Sabbath)...,

GE: Yes, Luke 23:54 states “mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing”— 157

“the WEEKLY Sabbath”— “the Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment” Luke 23:56. That is true. But it is not true . John 19:31 defines “it was The Preparation and that day was great day sabbath”— of the passover naturally. Mark 15:42 defines “that day The Preparation”: “which is the Fore-Sabbath”— “Fore-Sabbath” definitely and definitively before the weekly Sabbath. So the New Testament also mentions “sabbath-of-great-day” of the passover. Luke also in Acts 13 referred to the “in- between-sabbath” of “Bone Day-Sabbath” at the Yom Kippur. Luke also mentioned the “week” using just the Genitive word ‘of-the-sabbath’ for it.

Rubies: There was only 3 hours left before the weekly Sabbath (that is … the ONLY SABBATH EVER mentioned in the N.T.= the WEEKLY Sabbath) began, ANOTHER 3 HOURS LATER. SUNRISE + 3 HOURS = 3rd HOUR. 3rd HOUR + 3 HOURS = 6th HOUR. 6th HOUR + 3 HOURS = 9th HOUR. 9th HOUR + 3 HOURS = 12th HOUR = SUNSET. SUNRISE + 12 HOURS = SUNSET. But you Reg, say SUNRISE + 9 HOURS = SUNSET! Even Peter the fisherman could count to 12 every day. REG!! Study these scriptures and correct your mind so it is in line with God's rather than with your delusions. Mark 15:42 : Since it was ALREADY EVENING (this is the correct translation of “EDE OPSIAS”)(OPSIAS : STRONG'S = afternoon; early evening; THAYER = between 3 p.m. & 6 p.m.) John 19:42 : on FRIDAY, which was still PARASKEUE, the Preparation = PROSABBATON, the day before Sabbath, John 19:38,39 : Joseph and Nicodemus took Jesus' body down and laid it in a new tomb close by. 158

Jesus DIED AT the NINTH HOUR of the day, Mark 15:34-37 (the HOUR of PRAYER, Acts 3:1) which is 3 p.m. at the equinox, 3 hours before sunset, on the day called Paraskeue, John 19:31 (this is the Greek name for FRIDAY),

GE: Wait!

Rubies: Mark 15:42 : Since it was already evening (this is the correct translation of “ede opsias”)(opsias : Strong's = afternoon; early evening; THAYER = between 3 p.m. & 6 p.m.) John 19:42 : on FRIDAY, which was still PARASKEUE, the Preparation = PROSABBATON, the day before Sabbath, John 19:38,39 : Joseph and Nicodemus took Jesus' body down and laid it in a new tomb close by. Jesus DIED AT the NINTH HOUR of the day, Mark 15:34-37 (the HOUR of PRAYER, Acts 3:1) which is 3 p.m. at the equinox, 3 hours before sunset, on the day called PARASKEUE, John 19:31 (this is the Greek name for FRIDAY),

GE: You cannot have Mark 15:42, then John 19:42, then John 19:38,39, then Mark 15:34-37! You cannot have “it was already evening” Mark 15:42, then suddenly be “on FRIDAY”— “before Sabbath”, “mid- afternoon” Luke 23:54 “by the time of the Jews’ preparation to begin” John 19:42 --- then go back to “Joseph … took Jesus' body down” John 19:38, when “it was already evening” Mark 15:42, “and Nicodemus also came to him that first night” John 19:39, then jump forward again to when “Joseph and Nicodemus took Jesus' body … and laid it in a new tomb”— “by the time 159 of the Jews’ preparation to begin”, “mid-afternoon” “before Sabbath” John 19:41,42 Luke 23:54’ then again go back to “Jesus DIED AT the NINTH HOUR of the day, Mark 15:34-37” The Gospels have in sequence of time as well as text—in sequence of context as well as content, Mark 15:34-37, then Mark 15:42, then John 19:38,39, and last, John 19:42 and Luke 23:54 ! The Gospels have in sequence of time as well as text, and in sequence of context as well as content, ; “and everybody forsook Him and left” Luke 23:48,49; “It was already evening” Mark 15:42, “and since the Preparation had begun the Jews asked Pilate” John 19:31; “And after these things Joseph … asked Pilate” John 19:38; Then “Joseph … took Jesus' body down” John 19:38; “and Nicodemus also came to him that first night” John 19:39; “and they prepared the body of Jesus to bury (him)” John 19:40; And at last, <3 p.m. at the equinox, 3 hours before sunset, on the day called PARASKEUE… this is the Greek name for FRIDAY… Joseph and Nicodemus took Jesus' body… and laid it in a new tomb>. But—to mention but one example—, Rubies fraudulently smuggled in . God is watching you, Rubies!

Rubies: Jesus DIED AT the NINTH HOUR of the day, Mark 15:34-37 (the HOUR of PRAYER, Acts 3:1) which is 3 p.m. at the equinox, 3 hours before sunset, on the day called PARASKEUE, John 19:31 160

(this is the Greek name for FRIDAY), also known as PROSABBATON (the Greek word which means, “The DAY BEFORE the WEEKLY SABBATH,” Mark 15:42) which must necessarily be FRIDAY, and “THE SABBATH WAS BEGINNING,” Luke 23:54 which also proves this was FRIDAY. Therefore HE HAD TO BE BURIED BY SUNSET, Joshua 8:29 in the 3 HOURS remaining before the 12th hour, that same day as He was hung on the tree, Deut 21:22,23 FRIDAY, BEFORE SUNSET. By commandment of the Lord.

GE: Rubies’ big, lie in a word: < John 19:31>: … — “The Preparation … that day of sabbath great day” of passover. Jesus did not die then, or, in John 19:31. It is Rubies’ big, lie. Yes, this is Rubies’ big lie—Rbies stating, This is Rubies’ big lie because Mark 15:34-37 was the day BEFORE—the day BEFORE, . This is Rubies’ big lie because she makes She also lies because she says that while it was ‘Friday’ the Preparation which was ending or rather was 161 beginning to end, “the Sabbath approaching mid-afternoon that day”—of Friday! And yes, . But what does Rubies mean with ? That’s her trick; her lie! Because Rubies says ——, ! And yes, . But that is not what is about or says. And that is not in , or, the . Because none of all these faked rubies were on , or, on the Sixth Day from after sunset and evening, or, , but by the wickedly lying mouth of one incognito faked Rubies on TopixSDA. To the God of Truth only, glory and majesty through Christ raised from the dead “ In Sabbath’s-time before the First Day of the week”.

Rubies: The Wednesday cross heresy only came about through false prophets such as Herbert W. Armstrong who defied the simple scriptural teaching and invented their own aberrant doctrines. Was HWA, “Elijah the prophet”? No? Obviously not! But he said he was! This proves him a liar and a deceiver. Everything he taught must therefore be discarded. You cannot pick and choose amongst the doctrines of false prophets. They must be stoned to death, kit & caboodle, to “purge the evil from your midst.” As for the US Navy – they are beastly careless about the date of the Cross. Their impartial astronomical data is quoted and misapplied by heretics to befuddle others not clever enough to check these facts out for themselves. You cannot blame the USNO for other peoples' false doctrines. They are not responsible for what anyone else does with their accurate information. 162

The “New Moon” data given by the USNO is for CONJUNCTION, not for the first visible crescent of the moon. Therefore those using this info will be out by either 1 or 2 days in their dates for Jewish months. Thus 14 Nisan in 30 AD was FRIDAY 7th April. In 31 AD, it was TUESDAY 27th March, using the correct method of first visibility of the moon. Also you fail to take into account that “opse” means “AFTER; LONG AFTER.” And “epiphosko” means “GETTING LIGHTER; DAWN.”

GE: , is not true. For many centuries Bible translators never gave this idea a thought and never allowed it to enter into their renderings of Mathew 28:1. Reg has with every right posted and reposted all the English Bibles from the first one by Tyndale until the last translated in the nineteenth century and they like one, correctly translated ‘opse’ with “late” / “late in” / “late on”. Then it is a fact of history and etymology as unmovable as the rock of Gibraltar that ‘opse’ has in all—yes ALL—the existence of the Greek language never been used in the way and in the sense that Rubies here arrogates falsely—NOT EVEN IN MODERN translations in Greek of Matthew 28:1. Here is the perfect illustration of absolutely NO comprehension or knowledge of the Greek language—not only by Rubies, but by the quasi translators who since the twentieth century have been attempting to create a case for SUNDAY WORSHIP BY STEALING JESUS’ RESURRECTION FOR IT. And what could be easier than to pretend ‘opse’ in Matthew 28:1 truly means what they ABUSE THEIR HOLY DUTY AS TRANSLATORS OF GOD’S WORD TO MAKE IT LOOK! They LIE in worship, and adoration and superstitious veneration and divining of their great idol and FALSE GOD, the lord Sun and his Day of worship. And they shall commit 163 murder and atrocities unthinkable of Christians, for their god and its glorification. They shall even—they at present ARE— robbing Christ of the truth of his “Sabbath’s”-Resurrection from the dead to honour the god of all ages among pagans and heathens, ‘The Day of the Lord Sun’.

Rubies: And “epiphosko” means “GETTING LIGHTER; DAWN.”

GE: This is Rubies’ same lie and same abuse of truth and same show of incompetence in Greek or Bible.

Rubies: … “3 days and 3 nights” is a Jewish idiom rather than a precise count of the number of hours.

GE: Rubies does not know what an ‘idiom’ is. Which is clear as daylight JUST by her reference here to the <“3 days and 3 nights”> as . The <“3 days and 3 nights”> occurs ONCE in the New Testament. But an ‘idiom’ to be an ‘idiom’ is so often occurring in every day use of a language that it defies set rules of grammar, syntax and semantics. For example, the word “week” in the New Testament from the New Testament IDIOMATIC Hebraism, ‘sabbatou’ Singular or ‘sabbatohn’ Plural “… of the week”— “First Day of the week”, or, “the Sabbath (of the week)” --- no difference it means and says the same thing. So, the plain PHRASE, <3 days and 3 nights”> is no but a literal phrase of literal MEANING. It only and ONLY means what it says in the writing, which is “three days and three nights”. 164

Rubies: <3 days and 3 nights> is a Jewish idiom rather than a precise count of the number of hours.

GE: Sure! That the phrase <3 days and 3 nights> is not , is so. If it were a precise count of hours that is expressed with saying <3 days and 3 nights> (instead), then it might have been given second thoughts for going through for an . But now <3 days and 3 nights> do not as conceived and does not as an refer to something else than what it spells in so many words, but simply is what it is: WORDS meaning what they say.

Rubies: JOSEPHUS (A Levitical Priest) Antiquities of the Jews, Book 14:4 “3. And any one may hence learn how very great piety we exercise towards God, and the observance of his laws, since the priests were not at all hindered from their sacred ministrations by their fear during this siege, but did still TWICE A DAY, IN THE MORNING and ABOUT the NINTH HOUR, OFFER THEIR SACRIFICES on the altar.” Antiquities, Book 3:10 “Concerning the festivals; and how each day of such festival is to be observed. “1. the law requires, that out of the public expenses a lamb of the first year be killed EVERY DAY, at the BEGINNING and at the ENDING of the DAY.” “5. In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, ON the 14th DAY of the LUNAR MONTH, when the sun is in Aries,(for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the passover; and so we do celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what 165 we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the 15th day of the month, and continues 7 days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs.”

GE: New Testament Truth does not rely on traitor Jews or loyal Jews.

Rubies: MARY MAGDALENE was one of the many women who came to the tomb very early on Sunday morning to anoint Jesus' body, according to ALL the concordant accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

GE: Denied! Mary Magdalene was one of the women mentioned in Luke 24:10 who came to the tomb very early “deepest of morning”—‘orthrou batheohs’ on Sunday morning to anoint Jesus' body, according to ONE account—that of Luke in 24:1,2.

Rubies: This was the FIRST time she had come to the tomb, obviously, as she had brought that alabaster flask of pure nard

GE: Denied! account in Luke 24:1,2, was the first time “THEY”, had come to the tomb as “they, had brought their, spices prepared and ready with them,…”

Rubies: This was the FIRST time she had come to the tomb, obviously, as she had brought that alabaster flask of pure nard, 166 which Jesus had told the disciples she must be allowed to use to anoint Him after He died. John 12:7 Jesus said, “Leave her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of my burial.”

GE: Why must you always add a twist to the text?! Jesus did not say, He said just what the KJV says, “Let her alone: AGAINST (that is, “before” and “for”) the day of my Burying (Burial) she kept (or “did”) this (which she had done).” Therefore no; Mary Magdalene “brought / carried with” her to the grave, the “spices and sweet ointments” which she and “the other Mary” on the Friday after “mid-afternoon” after “they had left” and “had gone home” after Joseph had closed the grave, “prepared”. Luke 23:54-56a. They on Friday prepared their spices and “after the Sabbath” on ‘Saturday evening’, “bought” some more “spices, so that, when they (together with Salome) would go, they could / might anoint Him.” Mark 16:1. Which according to Luke, they did, “just after midnight [‘orthrou batheohs’] on the First Day of the week”. Luke 24:1,2. “They… and other women with them came to the tomb.” At this visit, “they (the women) saw the stone [as Mary Magdalene must have told them] but on entering into the grave, they found not the body”. Therefore Luke 24:1,2 and 22,23 make mention of the first visit at and inside the tomb. The two men told these women at this first visit by them all: “that He was alive” [‘dzehn’]. “But Him they saw not”, the women themselves witnessed. Luke 24:23,24. So why has Rubies said, ? Not for no reason at all but on the contrary to CREATE THE IMPRESSION Mary Magdalene was one of the many women who came to the tomb very early on Sunday morning to anoint 167

Jesus' body, and according to all the concordant accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John witnessed Jesus’ resurrection occurring. False Rubies!

Rubies: Reg, YOU claim that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus on SATURDAY NIGHT. But LUKE says that she first saw the empty tomb on SUNDAY MORNING AT DAYBREAK. THEN Mary Magdalene told the disciples. THEN Peter ran to the tomb and found it empty. {Luke here omits the sightings of Jesus.} THEN the 2 men met Jesus on the road to Emmaus, DURING the DAY, AFTER the morning when Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty, ON THE VERY SAME DAY, BEFORE THE AFTERNOON. BEFORE THE EVENING, of the FIRST DAY off the WEEK, on which JESUS ROSE from the dead. . GE: False Rubies, <… the FIRST DAY off the WEEK, on which JESUS ROSE from the dead>!

Rubies: Reg, YOU claim that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus on SATURDAY NIGHT. But LUKE says that she first saw the empty tomb on SUNDAY MORNING AT DAYBREAK. THEN Mary Magdalene told the disciples. THEN Peter ran to the tomb and found it empty. {Luke here omits the sightings of Jesus.} THEN the 2 men met Jesus on the road to Emmaus, DURING the DAY, AFTER the morning when Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty, ON THE VERY SAME DAY, BEFORE THE AFTERNOON. BEFORE THE EVENING, of the FIRST DAY off the WEEK, on which JESUS ROSE from the dead. 168

GE: False Rubies, <… LUKE says that she first saw the empty tomb on SUNDAY MORNING AT DAYBREAK>!

Rubies: THEN the 2 men walked another 2 hours back to Jerusalem, where it was almost sunset, and the disciples were all gathered together for their evening meal : Luk 24:33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, Luk 24:34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and has APPEARED TO SIMON!” Get yourself a pen and paper Reg, and draw up a diagram of how these things all fit together. But make sure you leave out your crank theory that “EPIPHOSKOUSE eis mian Sabbaton” (BECOMING LIGHT; DAWNING on the first day of the week, Matt 28:1) means “getting darker after sunset on Sabbath.”

GE: As little as means , as little—in fact as nothing—, does it mean . Must I rewrite the whole Grammar Book on this? Go read http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%202... (from p 63). First get it right, it is not . There is nothing right in this, ; everything in it is ignominious ignoramus stupidensis. It is ‘tehi’—Dative Article, “in the” ‘epiphohskousehi’—Dative Noun, “while / being in mid / height daylight inclining (over)”. In fact, this, is more wrong than meets the eye wrong in . Because it is not , but it is “SABBATH’S”—‘SABBATOHN tehi epiphohskousehi eis mian sabbatohn’— “SABBATH’S- time while being in the mid height daylight inclining (over)”. In fact it is more than just “SABBATH’S-time while / being in mid / height daylight inclining”, because it indeed is, “IN FULLNESS of Sabbath’s-time while being in the mid height daylight of the Sabbath inclining”— “IN FULLNESS”—‘OPSE sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi’! In fact it is more than just “In fullness of Sabbath’s-time while being in mid height daylight of the Sabbath inclining”, because it actually was “… BUT, in the fullness of the Sabbath Day while being in mid height daylight of the Sabbath inclining”—‘opse DE, sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi’. It was IN SPITE OF the fact a few hours earlier on “in the morning”—‘tehi epaurion’— on that Sabbath Day “after the Jews’ Preparation Day”, the Jewish and Roman bosses have tried their best to make it impossible for Jesus’ body to get out of the tomb. “They made the sepulchre SURE, sealing the stone and setting a watch.” “But despite”—‘de’— “In the fullness of the SABBATH being in mid height daylight of the Sabbath inclining towards the First Day of the week, THERE WAS GREAT EARTHQUAKE … and the angel of the Lord CAST THE STONE AWAY from the door” and Christ rose from the dead “IN SABBATH’S FULLNESS BEING IN THE HEIGHT OF INCLINING DAYLIGHT over towards the First Day of the week.” It was then that “the angel of the Lord cast the stone away from the door and sat on it” and Jesus rose from the dead. Matthew 28:1,2. Although the CONTEXT in Matthew 28:1,2 implicates that “late-OPSE-on the Sabbath” was “toward the First Day of the week”, is not the literal or semantic meaning of the word 'opse' as such. ... Come to think of it ... I retract this 'notion' of mine! The idea that definitely does not work in Matthew 28:1 because it would not mean “IN the Sabbath” or “ON the Sabbath” the true meaning in 170

Matthew 28:1. Instead it would mean “time late on the Sixth Day before the Sabbath” like in Luke 23:54 ‘epephosken sabbaton’ means “time late on the Sixth Day before the Sabbath”. So no, is an absolute MESS, and I RETRACT and declare null and void that I ever wrote such NONSENSE as this post, #4072 http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-d...! 'Opse' = “late on the Sabbath” in Matthew 28:1!

Rubies: A VERSE for EVERY DAY for 11 DAYS, Part 2. Previously posted as #941 then as #1126. FIRST DAY of the WEEK Saturday night – SUNDAY Some women bought spices as soon as Sabbath had ended, on SATURDAY NIGHT. Mark 16:1. Jesus rose very early at dawn {PROI} on SUNDAY MORNING. Mark 16:9. Mary Magdalene & other women went to the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING : on the first day of the week {TE DE MIA TON SABBATON} Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1;

GE: Never has any single person managed to fit such a fylfot of fumbling lies together, as in this contraption, . Rubies at her very truest self! Matthew 28:1 … “Mary Magdalene” and one, other woman— “the other Mary”— “set out to (go have a) LOOK at the tomb ON THE SABBATH”. They never arrived at the tomb 171 because they “set out to go have a look at the tomb WHEN SUDDENLY THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE” which must have prevented them to do what they “set out TO” do. To do what? “TO see the grave” Intentional Infinitive — “when there was a great earthquake” that was not — “BUT, LATE ON THE SABBATH”! How many lies so far has Rubies taken the pains to compose? 1) ; 2) ; 3) ; 4) ; and the crowning lie, 5) . Rubies never tires of her lying! Unbelievable! So Rubies elaborates on her ‘consistent’ lying and sommer places on par as one and the same in every aspect and respect, — which exponentially multiplies all her lies which we have so far identified. Try work it out, they very quickly become MILLIONS of ACTUAL, FACTUAL, PRACTICAL, LIES! Have you in your life come across a rotten carcass in the vast open plains of nowhere? Have you seen how innumerable are the maggots and flies in that carcass? And have you smelled how it STINKS miles off?! Worse, have you felt how those swarms of most beautiful green and purple and blue insects can afflict and scourge you?! Well, if you have, then you have now seen the religious replica of it.

Rubies: Jesus rose very early at dawn {PROI} on SUNDAY MORNING. Mark 16:9. Mary Magdalene & other women went to the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING : on the first day of the week {TE DE MIA TON SABBATON} 172

Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; after the Sabbath / after that week {OPSE SABBATON}, Matt 28:1; as dawn was breaking {EPIPHOSKOUSE}, Matt 28:1; very early at daybreak {LIAN PROI} Mark 16:2; at the rising of the sun {ANATEILANTOS TOU HELIOU} Mark 16:2; very early at sunrise {ORTHROU BATHEOS} Luke 24:1; at first dawn / very early in the morning {ORTHRIAI} Luke 24:22; very early in the morning at dawn {PROI} John 20:1; while it was still dark {SKOTIAS ETI OUSES} John 20:1.

GE: Everything is a corruption— everything a lie! First corruption: Jesus did not – Indicative Verb – <…on SUNDAY MORNING. Mark 16:9>. “He, risen [Adjectival and Adverbial Participle], early on the First Day, APPEARED [Indicative Verb]—, ‘anastas de prohï prohtehi sabbatou ephaneh’. KJV word order adapted, “Now when Jesus was risen (he) early on the First Day, appeared”; Or, KJV punctuation adapted, “Now when Jesus was risen(,) early on the First Day, he appeared”. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p194 GE: “Jesus rose” not ! He rose “when there came a great earthquake in the end of the Sabbath as it began to dawn 173 towards the First Day mid-afternoon of the Sabbath”—‘opse de sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi eis mian sabbatohn’.

Rubies: Jesus rose very early at dawn {proi} on Sunday morning. Mark 16:9. Mary Magdalene & other women went to the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING : on the first day of the week {TE DE MIA TON SABBATON} Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; after the Sabbath / after that week {opse sabbaton}, Matt 28:1; as dawn was breaking {EPIPHOSKOUSE}, Matt 28:1; very early at daybreak {LIAN PROI} Mark 16:2; at the rising of the sun {anateilantos tou heliou} Mark 16:2; very early at sunrise {ORTHROU BATHEOS} Luke 24:1; at first dawn / very early in the morning {orthriai} Luke 24:22; very early in the morning at dawn {PROI} John 20:1; while it was still dark {SKOTIAS ETI OUSES} John 20:1.

GE: Rubies’ second corruption: Sequence: True sequence: Matt 28:1-4 “Late on Sabbath mid-afternoon earthquake” John 20:1 “Mary on First Day being early dark still sees stone” Luke 24:1 “Women after-midnight morning found not the body” Mark 16:2 “They came very early before sunrise… inspected stone… afraid… fled… told no one” Mark 16:9 = John 19:11 “ Risen, Jesus early on the First day appeared to Mary Magdalene first” Matthew 28:5,6 “Explained the angel to the (other) women: 174

He was raised—late on the Sabbath (verse 1) as He said (verse 6) the third day”(27:64)

Rubies: Jesus rose very early at dawn {PROI} on SUNDAY MORNING. Mark 16:9. Mary Magdalene & other women went to the tomb on SUNDAY MORNING : on the first day of the week {TE DE MIA TON SABBATON} Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; after the Sabbath / after that week {opse sabbaton}, Matt 28:1; as dawn was breaking {EPIPHOSKOUSE}, Matt 28:1; very early at daybreak {LIAN PROI} Mark 16:2; at the rising of the sun {anateilantos tou heliou} Mark 16:2; very early at sunrise {ORTHROU BATHEOS} Luke 24:1; at first dawn / very early in the morning {ORTHRIAI} Luke 24:22; very early in the morning at dawn {PROI} John 20:1; while it was still dark {SKOTIAS ETI OUSES} John 20:1.

GE: Rubies’ third corruption: Translations: Mark 16:9, Rubies’ ‘translation’, in Matthew 28:1! There besides, is no in Matthew 28:1. “Jesus, risen, early [‘prohï’] on the First Day APPEARED.” Matthew 28:1, Rubies’‘translation’, (Rearrangement here of Rubies’ confused concoction above, is mine. GE) God’s Word recorded … “6 Jesus was raised as He said… 5 explained the angel to the women… 1 late ON THE SABBATH in the mid- afternoon before the First Day of the week when Mary Magdalene and the other Mary set out to go see the tomb and there came a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descending from heaven, cast the stone away from the grave.” Mark 16:2, Rubies’ ‘translation’, There is no in Mark 16:2; there is not even in Mark 16:2. There is just “women (who) deliberately came on, to the tomb”—‘erchontai epi, to mnehma’. Luke 24:1, Rubies’ ‘translation’, There is no in Luke 24:1; there is not even in Luke 24:1. There is just “women (who) came to the tomb and found the stone was away from the sepulchre, entered in, but did not find the body”, confirmed negative in 24:23. John 20:1, Rubies’ ‘translation’, There is no in John 20:1. There is not even in John 20:1; There is no in John 20:1; There is no , just “ being still early of dark on the First Day”— “being still dusk = early dark” before, “dark”. 176

There is no or before light in John 20:1; but “early of dark”—‘prohï skotias’ before the dark of total night; There is no grave seen in John 20:1, but the stone away from it. There is no entering into the grave in John 20:1; There is no finding out that the body was gone in the end! Just doubt and perplexity left in the mind of ONE women. The rest did not believe her, or her suspicions or her conjectures.

Rubies: Reg, YOU claim that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus on SATURDAY NIGHT. But LUKE says that she first saw the empty tomb on SUNDAY MORNING AT DAYBREAK. THEN Mary Magdalene told the disciples. THEN Peter ran to the tomb and found it empty.{Luke here omits the sightings of Jesus.} THEN the 2 men met Jesus on the road to Emmaus, DURING the DAY, AFTER the morning when Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty, ON THE VERY SAME DAY, BEFORE THE AFTERNOON. BEFORE THE EVENING, of the FIRST DAY off the WEEK, on which JESUS ROSE from the dead. THEN the 2 men walked another 2 hours back to Jerusalem, where it was almost sunset, and the disciples were all gathered together for their evening meal : Luk 24:33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, Luk 24:34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and has APPEARED TO SIMON!” Get yourself a pen and paper Reg, and draw up a diagram of how these things all fit together. But make sure you leave out your crank theory that “EPIPHOSKOUSE eis mian Sabbaton” (BECOMING LIGHT; DAWNING on the first day of the week, Matt 28:1) means “getting darker after sunset on 177

Sabbath.”

GE: Rubies the eternal fraudstres, “Luk 24:34 saying, “The Lord has risen”. “When therefore He was risen from the dead his disciples remembered that He had said to them, (The zeal of / for Thine House has eaten me up).” Luke 24:34 ? Impossible nonsensical English! Now just so, Rubies, is your, Jesus “has risen” here! Only much more corrupt and scandalous! How shameless can you be? ine Rubies; you have taken us through the whole of Saturday night and the day of Sunday. First you denied what Reg Fine, I agree with you, John did not write that and that did not happen. Then you led us through all the events afterwards (your version), and ended with saying, Which implies that you – correctly – understand that the Resurrection occurred in Matthew 28:1, <“epiphoskouse eis mian Sabbaton>… Fine! But let us wait a bit with your ‘translation’, <…BECOMING LIGHT; DAWNING on the first day of the week> for a while so that we can test it if it not also like Reg’s, is only . You have taken us through Saturday night. Like this: Now get yourself a pen and paper Rubies, and draw up a diagram of how these things all fit together according to yourself, Rubies, will you? Make sure WHERE <“EPIPHOSKOUSE eis mian Sabbaton” (BECOMING LIGHT; DAWNING on the first day of the week> fits in! Remember, the / ! I’ll draw up a diagram making use of only what you gave me to work with… Sorry, denied! Luke does not say —that is Rubies saying … rather, lying. But let Rubies explain herself further here; it is just fair. Rubies: <“very early at sunrise {ORTHROU BATHEOS} Luke 24:1; at first dawn / very early in the morning {ORTHRIAI} Luke 24:22> Maybe took for Mary ? Even so, then Mary ! Rubies explains on, We ask Rubies now to please explain the time of day and day of the week referred to in Luke 24:34 saying, “The Lord has 179 risen indeed, and has APPEARED TO SIMON!”? Does not Luke 24:34 tell about events of that past day on the First Day of the week “late, the day far spent”? Of course, yes! So, WHEN did Jesus appear to Simon—before or after He appeared to Mary Magdalene, “first”? Rubies LIES therefore stating for fact — aka appearances to Simon (and others) BEFORE HE APPEARED TO MARY MAGDALENE! But this has been only the beginning. Rubies stated She confirmed above, <“EPIPHOSKOUSE eis mian Sabbaton” (BECOMING LIGHT; DAWNING on the first day of the week”>. That is when Rubies has claimed, Jesus rose from his grave. Therefore, according to Rubies, Jesus rose from the dead, after that He had had appeared, to Simon and some other people . is in any case an incorrect interpretation of “orthrou batheohs” in Luke 24:1 and 22 because is LONG BEFORE ,‘orthros’ or / and ‘batheohs’ having been used throughout Greek history for the ‘after-midnight DEEPEST’ quarter or watch of night. As Rubies pointed out herself, Luke recorded the women’s first and earliest visit at the tomb, . It is just logical that Luke’s visit was the earliest in the “deepest of night morning” long before, … when supposedly according to Rubies and the whole world, there came a great earthquake and Jesus rose from the dead. 180

It therefore is just logical that the women’s visit was the earliest in the “deepest of night morning on the First Day of the week” Luke 24:1, long AFTER, “Sabbath mid-afternoon in the bright daylight inclining towards the First Day of the week”, Matthew 28:1 when according to God’s Eternal Purpose, “there came a great earthquake” and Jesus rose from the dead “on the Sabbath Day”— “and God from all his works RESTED”. As Rubies pointed out herself, Luke recorded the women’s first and earliest visit at the tomb, . WOULD SHE HAVE COME IF JESUS ALREADY HAD APPEARED TO HER?! No; Jesus only could have appeared to Mary much later --- when it is claimed He rose from the dead! Jesus long BEFORE already had raised from his grave nobody having seen Him rise or just conscious of the fact He HAD RAISED ALREADY:— “In Sabbath Day’s fullness in the daylight mid-inclining towards the First Day of the week”.

Rubies: JOHN'S ACCOUNT of the SAME EVENT [as Luke 24:1 to 34 #2672]: Joh 20:1 Now ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK MARY MAGDALENE came to the tomb EARLY, {PROI means, “AT DAWN;” “DAYBREAK WATCH;” “EARLY IN THE MORNING”} while it was STILL dark, {NOT, “getting darker”} and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. MARY MAGDALENE (and JOANNA and the other MARY and the OTHER WOMEN, Luke 24:10) ran to tell the disciples that the tomb was empty. THEN Peter and John ran back to the tomb. MARY MAGDALENE also returned to the tomb. THIS was when she first met Jesus, early on SUNDAY MORNING, the only time that gardeners might possibly be 181

“supposed” to begin their week's work : Joh 20:10 Then the disciples went back to their homes. 11 But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. 13 They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.” NOW she sees Jesus for the first time, early on Sunday morning : Joh 20:14 Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARDENER, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I HAVE SEEN THE LORD”—and that he had said these things to her. So this was the second time Mary Magdalene went to tell the disciples. Still early on Sunday morning.

GE: Rubies:#2672, Rubies:#2673,

“JOHN'S ACCOUNT of the SAME EVENT : Joh 20:1 Now ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK MARY MAGDALENE came to the tomb> So Mary “came” once, but “went” twice? No; because Rubies tells us as in Luke 24:1,23 . Still, Mary ‘came’ once because it was the , but ‘went’ twice because she , twice!? In fact, Rubies got it right and also not right! In fact Mary ‘went to tell’ before the Lord appeared to her; and, she ‘went to tell’ after the Lord had appeared to her. And that means, Rubies is wrong in that she identifies Luke 24 and John 20 and calls them . They were not . In fact, they were THREE ‘events’, John 20:1,2; then Luke 24:1,2(,23); then John 20:11-18! Which explains the ‘coming once’ but ‘going twice’ of Mary Magdalene to be incorrect, because she ‘came’ MORE THAN ONCE! And: it explains how Mary ‘went’ ONE TIME LESS than she ‘came’! So,Get yourself a pen and paper, and draw up a diagram of how these things all fit together…

Visits at the tomb “on the First Day” 1)”Mary sees the stone removed”, “while being early darkness still”, dusk. Then Peter and John go to the tomb to see what Mary has told them.(Jn20:1-10) 2)”Earliest morning- darkness”, just after midnight, “the two women”(variant – the two Marys), “and certain others with them”, for the first time, “came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices they had prepared”.(Lk24:1)”They returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. “(“Then Peter stood up and ran to the tomb; and bending low over, he saw the linen clothes. He went back, wandering by himself about that what had happened. “(Lk24:9-12) Cf. John's account in 20:1-10. I can't say Luke talks of another 183 visit by Peter, but it seems true because Luke doesn't mention John.) 3) These women to make sure, a second time came to the tomb “very early before sunrise”.(Mk16:2) 4) Mary from after the others had fled in fear (Mk16:8)”had had stood without at the grave”(Jn20:11). At the time a gardener should begin work, about sunrise, Jesus “early … first appeared to Mary”.(Mk16:9) 5) Soon after – after they a third time have visited the tomb and “the angel explained” to them what had happened during the Resurrection – Jesus appears to the other women “as they went to tell his disciples”.(Mt28:5, 9) Mary went to the tomb, three times, Jn20:1, Lk24:1, Mk16:2, and Mk16:9 when she “had remained standing behind” until, Jn20:11, Jesus appeared to her, “first”, Mk16:9, and alone, “at the grave”, Jn20:16. The other women also went to the tomb, three times, Lk24:1, Mk16:2, and Mt28:5 when “the angel explained” to them what had happened during the Resurrection, and Jesus, as “they went to tell his disciples”, appeared to them.(Mt28:5, 9) The answer to the ‘Easter enigma’(John Wenham) is simple: Each Gospel contributed to the whole with one of several sources; each added a personal part that, put together, will bring the whole story of the Resurrection into proper perspective. Tradition – that is, the Sunday-resurrection approach – make of these several stories of several visits, the one and simultaneous occasion of Jesus’ resurrection. Contradictions, discrepancies and total confusion are the inevitable result! It was bad enough that this ‘solution’ to a self-created ‘riddle’ was ever offered just to protect Sunday’s presumed status of being the day of the Resurrection. It became a comedy of tragic proportions when Sunday-protagonists began to defend their presumptuousness through unlawful improvements on the Scriptures. 184

So Mary ‘saw’ in John 20:1, “then ran” “in the dusk” in verse 2; but in John 20:11, “Mary HAD HAD STOOD / STAYED AFTER at the sepulchre” since her visit in Mark 16:2-8 some 3 hours earlier after she some 9 hours before had seen “the stone away from the grave” in John 20:1.

Whitehare: No question about it, this time Gerhard is CORRECT all the way, and Rubies is WRONG! Take that to the bank.

Rubies: JOHN'S ACCOUNT of the SAME EVENT :

GE: You also posted, Rubies, That is the basic underlying principle of all as yet attempted explanations for the ‘Easter enigma’ (as Wigram referred to them). The FAILED principle—the failed principle which has not solved a single ‘discrepancy’ or ‘enigma’ as yet, but so far has increased many times the myriads of existing ones. All, supposed or imagined or assumed ‘contradictions’ or ‘irreconcilabilities’ or whatever ‘impossibilities’ based on and derived from and caused by THIS VERY underlying principle seen here for example in your own futile undertaking to explain them—right here now quoted from you. The solution? John's account is NOT in any of the other Gospels and no Gospel’s account is the same event in John’s or any other Gospel’s account. Each Gospel’s account is its own account, different from but not differing with any other Gospel or Gospels’, accounts. It is not one and recorded in all the Gospels. 185

Yes, the larger picture is that of the same WHOLE; but the larger picture is made up of the individual Gospel’s smaller pictures, PUT TOGETHER. Therefore, in chapter 20, is NOT found in Luke in chapter 24 or in Matthew in chapter 28 or in Mark in chapter 16. And therefore, WHY is it so taken for granted that ? It is silly actually, to phrase this statement like it is phrased. Why call then if they are ? It requires DIFFERENT and MORE than the one same event to make up ; it is discordant accounts which give discordant accounts of the same event. Again, the Gospels are different but not differing, stories of different events that make up the one flawless account of Jesus’ Resurrection in all four Gospels. But to get back to my question, WHY is it so taken for granted that ? Because it is so TOTALLY taken for granted that all four Gospels are ‘eye-witness events’ of , the Resurrection of Jesus! Which is DENIED: First, because the Gospels are NOT ‘eye-witness accounts’ OF Jesus’ Resurrection. They are Inspired Witness—SCRIPTURE —TO, Jesus’ Resurrection. Next, NO human being,‘witnessed’ with sight, the event of Jesus’ Resurrection; nobody saw Jesus rise from his grave or inside his grave, Three, No Gospel recorded the Divine Act of Christ’s Resurrection as such. Four, Only Matthew recorded the CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVENTS AT THE TIME AND PLACE of Jesus’ Resurrection: “FROM the dead” viz., 1) “in the SEPULCHRE”; 186

2) “when there was a great EARTHQUAKE”; 3) “and the ANGEL of the Lord descended”; and 4) “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary SET OUT TO GO SEE the sepulchre”; 5) “and late ON THE SABBATH in the mid-afternoon before the approaching First Day of the week”.

Rubies: Mar 16:9 Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene. The KJV frequently [ADDED words] to the scriptures, such as here. What this verse ought to say, is : Mark 16:9 “Rising early in the morning of the first of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene.” There is no “WAS risen” as you think, in the past tense. The verse clearly states that JESUS ROSE EARLY ON SUNDAY MORNING. . GE: Rubies the Greek Authority. Eish! KJV, Mark 16:9, “Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene.”

Rubies: The KJV frequently [ADDED words] to the scriptures, such as here.

GE: Although it is an improvable translation the KJV no . You don’tknow what you’re talking!

Rubies: What this verse ought to say, is : Mark 16:9 “Rising early in 187 the morning of the first of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene.”

GE: “Rising” would require a Present Participle; Mark 16:9 uses the Aorist Participle that for nothing in your life will be rendered with the Indicative Present Continuous, . . Rubies: There is no “WAS risen” as you think, in the past tense.

GE: I knew that but you do not know that. Because you do not know the difference between a “Tense” in English and a ‘Mood’ in Greek or the difference between a Verb in English and a Participle in Greek. The King James is correct, but it could have chosen better words, like “Risen, he appeared” instead of “When he was risen he appeared”— “when he was risen”—, ONE WORD IN GREEK, ‘anastas’, Adjectival Adverbial Aorist2 Participle Nominative Singular Masculine, of ‘anistehmi’—‘to raise into existence’, therefore, “raised up again, Jesus first appeared to Mary”, Adverbial: “He APPEARED (as) The-Risen to Mary Magdalene first, early on the First Day of the week.” Or, Adjectival: “(As) The-RESURRECTED, He appeared to Mary Magdalene first, early on the First Day of the week.”

Rubies: The verse clearly states that JESUS ROSE EARLY ON SUNDAY MORNING.

GE: Blatant blunder. The verse clearly does not state that Jesus 188 rose early on Sunday morning. If you knew anything about Greek you would have known.

Rubies: YOU twist the antiquated KJV scripture here, and refuse to read a modern, accurate translation such as the ESV, which clearly says : Mar 16:9 Now WHEN HE ROSE EARLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, . GE: Yes, Rubies likes a modern, biased adaptation such as the ESV, which clearly corrupts the Text, “Risen he appeared” in Mark 16:9, into an inaccurate quasi translation, “Now WHEN HE ROSE EARLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK”.

Rubies: Read a modern, accurate translation such as the ESV, which clearly says : Mar 16:9 Now WHEN HE ROSE EARLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, HE APPEARED FIRST TO MARY MAGDALENE ...10 She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept. It dos not matter where you put the comma! You do not even need a comma. It is blindingly obvious to all but the wilfully blind, that JESUS ROSE EARLY ON SUNDAY MORNING, that MARY MAGDALENE was the FIRST to see Him on Sunday morning, and that MARY MAGDALENE told the disciples this, EARLY ON SUNDAY MORNING.

GE: Nobody is for the truths here, except you, that Mary Magdalene was the first to see Him “early” : , and that Mary Magdalene told the disciples this, later, . But it is you who are — no, who PRETEND, blind for your own, 189 covered up subtle sly and immoral perversion . And it is useless to repeat your yelling lie.

Rubies: Day of Passover Sacrifice: Nisan 14, two dailies at 9AM and second at 3PM”– except in years when dates are disordered by Nisan 14 falling on the Sabbath.

GE: Joshua and Israel marched around Jericho for 7 days. What makes a day a holy day is what GOD does on that day; not what man is ordered to do or not allowed to do on it. couldn’t be by GOD’S own acts and orders!

Rubies: Apparently you think that the “two dailies” were applicable only to the 14th Nisan! But the fact is that these sacrifices – the oloth ha'tamid (regular burnt offering) and the Passover – are two separate things! The Passover was sacrificed on just one day of the year (or two days if you count the second Passover in Iyyar for all who were unable to observe the first in Nisan). But the regular burnt offering consisting of the morning and evening sacrifices, was offered every single day of the year! This is for instance, the “regular burnt offering” found in Daniel 8:11, 12, 13; 11:31; 12:11. There, it refers to the coming desecrations by the Antichrist before Jesus returns to destroy him. Also in Ezekiel 46:15, which teaches us that this regular sacrifice will continue throughout the future millennial reign of the Messiah on earth. So I will correct my answer here. On 14th Nisan, the “two dailies” were offered as on every day of the year. 190

Num 28:3 “This is the food offering that you shall offer to the LORD: two male lambs a year old without blemish, DAY BY DAY, as a REGULAR OFFERING. 4 The one lamb you shall offer in the MORNING, and the other lamb you shall offer at TWILIGHT ... 6 It is a REGULAR BURNT OFFERING, which was ordained at Mount Sinai for a pleasing aroma, a food offering to the LORD. However, the “evening sacrifice” was necessarily moved forward an hour or so on 14 Nisan, to accommodate the Passover sacrifice which must be made at about 3 pm, before sunset.

GE: Nothing of which rigmarole applied to or happened on the first and the last ever passovers—the two Passover-Sufferings of Yahweh; the first, first passover at the goings-out of “the Kingdom of Darkness” and “The First and The Last” and “Alpha and Omega” of passovers—, “Our Passover”, “Out of the Kingdom of Darkness Into the Kingdom and Light of God’s Dear Son. —Nothing of your stuff could happen in That Day, on Jesus’ last passover : because The Lamb of God Jesus Christ so fully filled and so verily fulfilled the ‘God-given and therefore eschatological Imperative Whole and Wholeness’* of the Passover of Yahweh “in Three Days Thick Darkness” the “Whole Day Bone-Day” of the “Plague Upon Him”, “three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH”. “The Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in his wings.…Behold …the GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD.” [* Lohmeyer’s expression borrowed.]

Rubies: “Ceremonial sabbath” is a furphy that must be discarded in light of scripture. It is special pleading engaged in by the SDAs for the sole purpose of discrediting this verse : 191

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to FESTIVAL {ANNUAL observation} or NEW MOON {MONTHLY observation} or SABBATH.{WEEKLY observation.} The SDA and COG foundation and very reason for existence crumbles, of course, if this verse refers to the weekly Sabbath. Which it clearly does. Taking their aversion to extremes, many sabbatarians these days hate the truth of this verse so vehemently, that they pronounce Paul an apostate and delete his all words from their bibles. Hence the many decades of denial and subterfuge engaged in, creating other “ceremonial sabbaths” which were all supposedly “nailed to the Cross.” This conspicuous ploy spectacularly fails when SDAs next insist that the “DAY of Atonement” was NOT nailed to the Cross with all the other Appointed Feasts, but began in 1844 and is still continuing today, 170 YEARS later, with no end in sight. Therefore, PROSABBATON which means “before Sabbath” can only be FRIDAY. And since PARASKEUE = PROSABBATON, then PARASKEUE explicitly, and invariably, means FRIDAY.… All 4 Gospels unequivocally, emphatically and unanimously state that Jesus was crucified, He died and was buried on FRIDAY.

GE: Even were every word, true, it does not, , nor does it indicate or elude to, nor does it prove, . Your post has been useless ‘information’ of no value even for anything else in life. You have said, nothing in fact. And you need not have mentioned these things, are you trying to show with them that they mean that . Rather keep quiet and 192 save face. Because the day Jesus was BURIED on, started where the Gospels say “the evening had come already” in four ‘parallel Scriptures’—which “evening” in all four ‘parallel Scriptures’, ”had already come” AFTER the previous and past day on which Jesus had been Crucified and had Died. Bring the Manuscript(s) which have Mark 15:42 “The evening had come and because it already was The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath Joseph went in before Pilate”, BEFORE 15:24,37 Jesus’ Crucifixion and death! Bring them, quote them! Then you may say what you are trying to say with “evening” in every sense and manner occurring, AFTER 15:24,37 Jesus’ Crucifixion and Death! And bring it in every one of , or admit their truth and your, fraud! Bring the Manuscript(s) which have Matthew 27:57 “When the even was come, there came Joseph”, before 27:35,50 Jesus’ Crucifixion and death! Bring the Manuscript(s) which have Luke 23:50,52 “Behold, Joseph went unto Pilate”, before 23:33,46 Jesus’ Crucifixion and death! Bring the Manuscript(s) which have John 19:31,38 “the Jews because the Preparation had begun, asked Pilate” and “his side (was) pierced” and “after (them) Joseph asked Pilate”, before 19:23,30 Jesus’ Crucifixion and death! Bring, quote, ! THEN Rubies, shall I listen to you; not before!

Rubies: Hundreds of years of written testimony of Church Fathers corroborates the truth of this. Any other interpretation is unscriptural specious argument from those with a spurious gospel to support. QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM : All 4 Gospels unequivocally, emphatically and unanimously state that Jesus was crucified, He died and was buried on FRIDAY.

GE: http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p197 Quote? You have , Rubies; not me. You—ironically or not ironic whatsoever—are the one in 193 collaboration with the Seventh-day Adventists, not me. You are the party here, who acts the Seventh-day Adventist, the Roman Catholic and the sect and the cult; not me. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p195 GE: WCs and Friday freaks have much in common; they all believe the lie of the same-day-Crucifixion Death and Burial.

Alex: Exodus 12:13 has no indication of “ALREADY, AND, “ON THE FOURTEENTH”. The eating and the shodding of feet were both “in that night” on the 15th. They would have remained in their houses with painted lintels and jambs for protection until the Lord passed over at midnight on the 15th and started out at daybreak.

GE: “in that night” is a reference to the fourteenth—the only date found in the whole of Exodus. It is “on the 15th”—your addition and edition—which there is in Exodus 12:13. Fact no. 1, in Exodus 12 Israel departed on the fourteenth; Fact no. 2, in Numbers 33:3 they departed on the fifteenth. The LORD passed over on the fourteenth in Exodus 12. The date of the fourteenth is given twice, in the text before they departed and in the text after they had departed. Exodus 12:6 and 18. Do not by yourself decide this must be a discrepancy; it is not; it is Divine Dispensation. The explanation is not in human alternatives and elaborations but in Divine fulfilment by Jesus Christ Our Passover. In the Land of Darkness days were sunrise days. In the Kingdom of God days became sunset 194 days. There’s your WHOLE explanation: Christ’s “WHOLE- DAY Bone-Day”. Accept it or reject God’s Truth.

Reg: when Joseph came to Pilot for the body of Jesus my study bible is a Newberry KJV arranged in paragraphs with signs pointing out the perfection beauty and treasures, of the Hebrew and Greek originals published in 1832. MT 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: Was in this text is Aorist participle having done sun had set MK 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, the first WAS is the same as in Mathew the second WAS is imperfect or continuous the past “was doing” LK 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. Is imperfect or continuous in the past Drew is the same, the Sabbath was in motion

GE: Your ship was better ‘Piloted’ here. Nevertheless you boarded the wrong ship. In Luke 23:54 “the Sabbath drew on” is Imperfect or Continuous in the past --- Complex sentence in subordinate relation (‘sabbaton’ Accusative): Principle clause, “That Day (‘heh hehmera’ Nominative Subject) of the Preparation (‘Paraskeuehs’) was in motion/ending (‘ehn’ Imperfect) and…” Subordinate Predicative clause, “…and was shining towards (‘epephohsken’) the Sabbath (‘sabbaton’ Accusative). Or … Complex sentence in coordinate relation (‘sabbaton’ Nominative): 195

First clause, “That Day (‘heh hehmera’ Nominative Subject) of the Preparation (‘Paraskeuehs’) was in motion/ending (‘ehn’ Imperfect) and…” Coordinate clause, “…and the Sabbath (‘sabbaton’ Nominative) was coming shining near (‘epephohsken’).” WHAT ABOUT YOU TWO GET RID OF ALL THESE REMOTE AND DISTANCED AND IRRELEVANT high- sounding scholarship and for a change pay attention to the SIMPLE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD?!

Alex: Judge not lest you be judged. I have quoted Scripture thank you very much. I am not obliged to use it every time!...especially amongst esteemed company! GE why dont we deal with ONE topic at a time. Saves trying to deal with various threads! I propose we deal with Rubies Artaxerxes/Darius dilemma. We work out which edict and which person in respect to Daniel's 70 weeks then move forward to Crucifixion week. Rubies - it is a pity that Mr Pratt has not responded to your letter. There is a lot to take in here. I don't mind the depth but it is a matter of time which binds and limits most. Can you provide a fitting chronology for the 70 weeks (consecutive or non-consecutive) from 583 BC for any presumed or real Messiah to fulfill Daniel 9:24-27?

Rubies: Yes, I must prompt Mr Pratt again. I would appreciate an astronomer's opinion on some of those points. It is true that I have been blessed (?!?) with more free time than most, and that has enabled me to study this subject painstakingly for many years now. Still all is not crystal clear. But certain things are concrete, such as the fact that Ezra& Nehemiah (also 196

Mordecai) returned to Jerusalem with Zerubbabel & Jeshua, in Year 1 Cyrus. This invalidates the SDA Church from day dot, and shoots their entire chronology down in nuclear flames. Not one of them will make the effort to study these facts. Even most SDAs who leave the cult, fail to get their facts right here. They make up other scenarios to explain Daniel's prophecies, still based on the false basis of “Longimanus” and his fabled, fictitious “Decrees to rebuild Jerusalem.” Doomed to failure. One thing I have discovered, having done a study I called “CHRONOLOGY of ALL DATED EVENTS in the BOOKS of EZRA, NEHEMIAH, ESTHER, DANIEL, HAGGAI, ZECHARIAH”, is that all those events occurred within FORTY NINE YEARS from Year 1 Cyrus. That is ... 7 WEEKS of 7 years each, from the date that Cyrus gave his decree to rebuild both Jerusalem and the Temple. At the end of that time, in Year 32/33 Darius Hystaspes, the City & Jerusalem had been rebuilt - fulfilling the first 7 Weeks of the prophecy. * Either Year 1 Cyrus was 488 BC (if the 7 & 62 Weeks were contiguous) * or there was a gap of some unknown aetiology from Year 32 Darius until the 62-Week count re-commenced in 439 BC. Significance of that possibility has not yet jumped out at me. The Cross was prophesied to occur “AFTER the 62 Weeks.” NOT “at the end of the 69th Week.” Note subtle but critical differences between scriptural expression and common delusion. After this, was prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which as we know, was in 70 AD. THEN, as the denouement of the Abomination of Desolation was prophesied by both Daniel and Jesus to occur immediately before the Second Coming, the final 7 Years (70th Week) FOR THE JEWS, must terminate at Jesus' return. This document is a 3-page Chart, therefore much easier to study than the other docs which nevertheless I hope you have 197 saved for future reference in this ongoing discussion? So we are at least all au fait with the issues at stake. [Cut] I've had the theory “explained” to me more than a soul can stand. It simply is not true. If you believe this, then you are denying the Word of God, which says that ONLY the 7th day, the Day of Atonement, and the 7th Year, are a SHABBATH or sabbath. Anything else is a Day of Solemn Assembly (shabbathon) or a “Holy Convocation” or an “Appointed Feast” (moed) or a Solemn Assembly (atsereth).

GE: There you have your explanation, Alex. My donkeys all have a history behind their names. This donkey of mine, I called Brander. I called him Brander because I wanted to call him Brander; so I called him Brander. [With apologies to someone else than Brander or me.]

Useless: Jesus had to present his blood ....it says quite plainly in Hebrews 9:12 “but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.” So regardless … it is stated he entered the Most Holy Place...in Heaven...

GE: Christ “entered the Most Holy Place --- THE MOST HOLY SANCTUARY OF HIS GRAVE --- once for all by his own blood, thus having obtained eternal redemption.” Now read Romans 5:10,11! ... it is SELF-EXPLANATORY. Seventh- day Adventism like all Sunday-resurrectionisms are DOOMED and SUDDEN DEATH is fast creeping in upon them all.

Rubies: ONLY the 7th day, the Day of Atonement, and the 7th Year, 198 are a SHABBATH or sabbath. Anything else is a Day of Solemn Assembly (shabbathon) or a “Holy Convocation” or an “Appointed Feast” (moed) or a Solemn Assembly (atsereth).

Kevin: So, a shabbathon is not a shabbath huh? This is probably one of the most ignorant statements that I've seen on this forum. It is correct that only the weekly sabbath and the day of atonement are called “shabbath shabbathon”, but to claim that a shabbathon is not a shabbath if the word shabbath is not used is ridiculous. That's like if someone said “The wind sure is windy today.” and someone else said “It sure is windy.” That the second person wasn't talking about the wind since the word wind wasn't used. Rubies, you make no sense. Maybe you haven't studied the subject of the two sabbaths during the crucifixion week enough. What does Matt. 28:1 say? It says, transliterated from the Greek to English: At the end (or after) the sabbaton, as it began to dawn towards the first sabbaton. The King James incorrectly says this: Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, What it really says is, “after the sabbaths, as it began to dawn towards the first of the sabbaths. After what Sabbaths? The first day of unleavened bread which fell on a Thursday and the weekly Sabbath. Which would mean Jesus died on a Wednesday, and “three days and three nights” later would bring us to the wave sheaf day which was not Sunday which starts at midnight but just after sunset after the weekly sabbath. What is the first of the sabbaths? This was the first day of the seven sabbaths count to Pentecost. 199

Your convoluted argument about the 15th day of Abib not being a shabbath because it is called a shabbathon is pathetic! 1695

GE: My own finding has been that the first day of the Seventh Month was also called a sabbath, as well as the fifteenth day of the First Month, “the sabbath” of the passover—also called the “great day of sabbath” in John 19:31. But your silliness, Kevin, reaches its zenith where you claim the KJV is incorrect. Besides the linguistics which cannot be discussed with you seeing you know as little as I do about it, just have a look at your miserable attempt at plain logic, having stated, … but you talk of ONE supposed ?! And then you say this one and only “first” day, “fell on a Thursday and the weekly Sabbath.”— on TWO days, three days apart!? But that’s not the worst, in your own estimation superior insight into the Greek language and analytical thought, you add or subtract or divide or whatever you thought you were doing, faulty, thus, What comes after, according to you? The first?! And the first, what comes after?! Then you cannot even “transliterated from the Greek to English” correctly. Why, because, as I said, you know nothing about Greek (and, it seems, about your own tongue, English) because you cannot distinguish between a Singular and a Plural. But the following is deliriously lekker, because it is you, laaitietjie, contradicting yourself, laaitietjie, with stating, “This 200 was the first day of the seven sabbaths count to Pentecost”, because in just your previous post, you denied that the first day of the “seven sabbaths” count to Pentecost, was a Sabbath Day! Eish!

Steenberg: Old poephollerjie are you alweer lekket mal ? You must stop belitteling these ouks. IShame on you ! Studie about opsie. I will be in Pretoria in January. Where can I come and worship with you?

GE: You want to worship the Holy God on his Holy Sabbath Day with an insane, old crater of a man? He does not desire to worship with you; he is too great a sinner for the company of hypocrites like yourself. In any case, we are the “Sabbaths' Feast of CHRIST, _Home_ Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith' none of which you, are. We are happy and thankful to be few in numbers and stay few in numbers because with the growth in numbers, people like you, sneak into CHRIST'S Sabbaths' HOME Assemblies. Offer declined. Let me go and wash my mouth and printing fingers. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p196 Seventieth week Kevin: I'm sure it's not scripture that you would accept, but this scripture does prophecy that Jesus would bring an end to sacrifice and offerings in the midst of the week. His death ended the necessity for animal sacriices. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading 201 of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. As I said I'm sure you'll reject that this prophecy is about Jesus but your rejection does not make it not so.

GE: Giving this prophecy the meaning you are speaking about, does not make it a prophecy about Jesus. No sir; as wrong as you are about the prophecy, so wrong are you about my thoughts about it. But I want to close with this thread as far as I am concerned. You created an opportunity to herewith close on a positive note. Daniel’s prophecies are about the Christ. That does not make the Book understandable to me. I admit I do not understand Daniel’s prophecies. Except that I know if one does not find Christ in them, one has not found anything of worth in them. My main objection to the WCs’ and SDAs’ abuse of the 70 weeks prophecy is that they have ALREADY given the 70 weeks its meaning in that they say it means 70x7=490 YEARS. Now they create their OWN prophecy, and turn the 490 YEARS, back into seven-days WEEKS … and even days! That is plain arbitrariness; it is not God-fearing searching CHRIST in the prophecy, BUT THEIR OWN SCHEMING in their abuse of the prophecy! Then there also is the dry as gravel in Gilboa’s desert of dividing their phantom of the 70th week-of-YEARS, into two halves of a week’s DAYS. Now if you want to go so far in your literalness then you should go ALL THE WAY IN LITERALNESS and divide the week precisely, and you will end up with a 6 a.m., crucifixion and not a late afternoon crucifixion-death. The whole affair is not funny; it’s sacrilegious and very stupid. But that is a minor compared to prefer such nonsense to the abundance of plain Scriptures with direct and literal relevance 202 to the day of the week and of the passover, and to its hour, when Jesus was crucified ---which to me is MOST offensive and an insult to my and anybody else’s Christian Faith and intellect. So I’ll again try to end this debate on a positive note and say that Jesus Christ should be the ESSENCE AND SUBSTANCE of one’s understanding of Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy. At the same time I shall again confess I have not found the meaning of Daniel’s prophecies and don’t think I ever shall. I’ll be honest about it—which will be the positive I herewith want to end with.

Kevin: Daniel 9 doesn't have a double meaning, it has a triple application/meaning. 1. That he would die in the midst of the last seven years of the 490 year prophecy. 2. That he would die in the literal midst of the week, Wednesday, the fourth day of the seven day week. 3. That he would die in the midst of the seven thousand year week. He died at the end of the fourth thousandth year. Have you ever wondered why God waited almost 4,000 years to send Jesus? This is why. Those who fully grasp the meaning of "this" will be blown away.

GE: Daniel 9 is IRRELEVANT. Anybody believing Daniel 9 has anything to do with the day of the week Jesus Died on, is mad as were his brains with a buckshot.

Kevin: 1. That he would die in the midst of the last seven years of the 490 year prophecy. 203

GE: There is no such thing anywhere in the Bible as a <<490 year prophecy>>.

Kevin: He would die in the literal midst of the week, Wednesday, the fourth day of the seven day week.

GE: That Christ <> does not exist anywhere in the Scriptures. <<…the literal midst of the … seven day … week…>> Work that out for us, — that is, EXACTLY! Do your arithmetic on this page, let’s see it! You can’t even divide 7 by 2, What reckon Christ’s moment of death from 490 garbled years!

Kevin: 1. That he would die in the midst of the last seven years … 2. That he would die in the literal midst of the week… 3. That he would die in the midst of the seven thousand year week.

GE: WHICH was it, <>; or, <>; or, <>? And from WHERE?! From Daniel 9?! Does Daniel write of <>?—No! Does Daniel write of <>?—No, say YOU! 204

Does Daniel write of <>?—No, Daniel says No!

Kevin: He died at the end of the fourth thousandth year.

GE: Christ died at the end of no year; He died on the fourteenth day of the First Month of the first calendar year the Jews ever had. And it is written that “THAT DAY BONE-DAY … they had to kill the passover”, occurred “at the end of 430 years”—not <>. Which <>?! It’s not even funny; it’s killingly boring, so silly are your ‘prophetic insights’.

Kevin: Have you ever wondered why God waited almost 4,000 years to send Jesus? This is why…

GE: Uncontrollable madness! Who would ever wonder about such nonsense and lying but an insane fool? http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day- adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p197 Steenberg: What a funny name for a fellowship! And you do not want to grow or mix with sinners! Are only you and your wife the “members”? I will see you and bring my whole family with. You have a few questions to answer to....going back a while.

GE: 'Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Home Assemblies' the name, consists each word and phrase, of PURE SCRIPTURE -- 205

Scripture of course being something you obviously find ridiculous. 'Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Home Assemblies' have NO members, everyone of us being a member of “THE BODY OF CHRIST” and “of Christ's Own”. Let never one word in pride come over our lips. But may we boast in the LORD Jesus Christ “THE SUBSTANCE ... and NOURISHMENT ministered ... holding to HIM THE HEAD, the Body growing with the growth of God” ... until the Lord Jesus comes again, o God, my home, my wife, my son, my daughters and my grand children. It is obvious from the word go, what the greatest temptation for the Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Home Assemblies, is -- already is, and always, will be.

Kevin: What it really says is, “after the sabbaths, as it began to dawn towards the first of the sabbaths.

GE: No! What it really says is 'opse' -- “LATE” -- “late ON Sabbath” -- 'opse sabbatOHN' -- “Sabbath'S-time'. Cf LXX: Genesis 24:11, ‘Kai ekoimate tas kamehlous eksoh tehs poleohs para to phrear tou hudatos to pros OPSE hehnika ekporeuontai hoi hudreuomenai.’ “The servant of Abraham rested his camels without the city by the water well towards evening / late afternoon when the young women go to draw water.” Exodus 30:8, ‘Hotan eksaptehi Aarohn tous luchnous _opse_, thumiasei ep’ autou’. “When Aaron kindles the lamps late in day / towards evening, he shall offer upon it”. Isaiah 5:11, ‘Ouai hoi egeiromenoi toprohï kai to sikera diohkontes, hoi menontes te _opse_, ho gar oinos autous sunkaúsei.’ “Woe to the early risers to drink strong drink, to the late cravers for wine to inflame them.” 206

Jeremiah 2:23, ‘Ide tas hodous sou en tohi _poluandrioh_ kai gnohthi ti epoiehsan: _opse_ phohneh autehs ohlolukse tas hodous autehs eplatunen eph- hudata erehmou.’ “Behold thy ways in death’s valley and know what thou hast done—her voice howled broadcasting late abroad her adultery.”

Bird: Wednesday Crucifixion is a False belief that Satan has deceived people to believe.

GE: You have never read anything. Yet it is true what you say. Nevertheless you just refer to the rear end of the porcupine on the attack. On the attack the porcupine's front end is its sharp end. And the first Christian politician knew that very well. So he let slip the loop of his lasso pole from the rear end to the sharp end over the porcupine 's spines and strangled him at the throat. You know what I mean? No? Well Justin Martyr started the present universally accepted corruption in Matthew 28:1---the sharp end of our present thorny issue. Said he before anybody else, Jesus was Crucified the day before the day of Saturn and was Raised on the Day after the day of Saturn on the day of the Sun.

Steenberg: Satan worked through the Catholics, not only to teach you about a false TRINITY, but also to convince you that the resurrection occurred on Sunday morning so you can celebrate :the Lord's day” and forget about the Sabbath! Catch? Google Fred Coulter for the most accurate, moment by moment countdown to the WEDNESDAY late afternoon crucifixion and get the settled in you mind once for all! Do that even before you attack the turkey. Happy Thanksgiving!

GE: 207

Please say something out of your own?! Something other than about turkeys.

Rubies: You still mashing your gums to yourself Gerhard? Nobody's interested any more.

GE: ... says she who does not know a thing ... It is not for a lack of interest or disinterest; it is a matter of lack of knowledge and humbleness to admit the substance of the Day-of-Substance in Jesus’ Last Passover. It is a matter with people like you, Rubies, of pride hurt and disdain for purity and simplicity of Biblical truth. Because it touches upon your Holy Sunday. My book about you is taking on shape. For substance though, I had to bring in others in other places to the discussion. What stands out so far, is the only defence deniers of Jesus' Burial Day has : their sheer denial of and refusal to declare ignorance in the issue. Seeing they pretend blind --- it is YOUR 'argument', sissie, yours…: <...it does not exist...">. Nothing ‘new’ yet because nothing ‘new’ will ever come out of empty denial. But the whole world is TAKING NOTICE already ... you - faked Rubies - just don't know, once again. Let’s PLEASE call it a day!? 208

Addendum Bone-Day Religious Forums

The Lost Passover Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Genesis …

Genesis 7 “11 In THE SAME DAY [HADZEH YOM] all the fountains of the great deep were broken up … 13 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] entered Noah … into the ark.” “…in the selfsame whole day bone day… [etsem 209 yom] …as when in the days of Noah an ark was being prepared the longsuffering of God waited wherein souls through watery [grave] were saved … by the Resurrection of Christ… For Christ has once suffered for [our] sins that He might bring us to God, He being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit.” 1Peter 3:20,21,18.

Genesis 17 “23 Abraham circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] as God had said unto him …7 I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy Seed [Christ]… 26 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] (stricken in age) Abraham was circumcised… And the LORD appeared unto him… pass not away from thy servant… wash your feet and rest yourself under the tree… Abraham fetched a calf… a young man hasted to dress it… And [the LORD] stood by them and they did eat. And [the LORD] said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and lo, (waxed old) Sarah thy wife shall have a son… at the appointed time I shall return.” . Genesis 50 “20 God meant to bring to pass as it is THIS DAY to save much people alive. 21 Now fear ye not : I will nourish you and your little ones. And he comforted them and spake kindly to them. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I DIE : and God will surely visit you and bring you out of this land unto the land which He sware unto Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up from hence my BONES—26 SO JOSEPH DIED being an hundred and ten years old : and [having been buried in a grave] they embalmed him, and he was PUT IN A COFFIN in Egypt…” 210

The Book of Genesis ended with Joseph’s burial day and future care of his bones—fulfilled in the Book of Exodus.

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Exodus …

Exodus 12 “17 Ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread for in THIS SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe THIS DAY… by an ordinance for ever 18 in the fourteenth day of the (First) Month (6 Israel shall kill the passover)... strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood and none of you shall go out of his house… 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite [with the plague] the Egyptians… The LORD will pass over and will not suffer the destroyer to come unto your houses to smite you.”

Exodus 12 “41 Even THIS SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] it came to pass that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt—42 it is a NIGHT to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt : THIS IS THAT NIGHT of the LORD… 43 THIS IS THE ORDINANCE OF THE PASSOVER… 46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye BREAK / SEVER A BONE thereof. 8 they shall EAT the flesh in THAT NIGHT roast with FIRE… not raw nor cooked with water but roast with FIRE; head with legs and with the purtenance thereof… 10 and that which remain the next day ye shall BURN WITH FIRE … 12 I will pass through THIS NIGHT … the PLAGUE shall not be upon you.” 211

Exodus 12 “51 It came to pass THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] that the lord did bring the children of Israel out… 13 God led the people about through the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea… and Moses took the BONES of Joseph with him for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my BONES away hence with you.” The Book of Genesis ended with Joseph’s burial day and future care of his bones—fulfilled in the Book of Exodus. Now Exodus ends with an apocalyptic vision of Christ’s bones and day of burial…

Exodus 24:10 They saw the God of Israel: and under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone [having been] THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] as it were the body of heaven in his clearness … Exodus 14:5,4 THIS DAY [of ‘etsem yom’] came ye out in the month Abib… by Strength of Hand the LORD brought you out from this place (of death) where no Bread of Life shall be eaten. The Book of Genesis as fulfilled in the passover in Exodus is seen further expanded upon and added to in Leviticus …

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Leviticus …

Leviticus 23: “21 Ye shall proclaim on THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] … as ye shall REAP … the corners of thy field… 10 When ye shall reap … ye shall BRING a sheaf of the firstfruits unto the priest and on the day after the sabbath [it rested over] the priest shall wave the sheaf before 212 the LORD to be accepted for you 14 …the very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day [ad hadzeh etsem yom] that ye have brought an offering [of the passover lamb]. “14 The very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day” [ad hadzeh etsem yom] encompassed… “9 The LORD spake unto Moses… “5 In the fourteenth day is the LORD’S passover First addition: “sabbath rest day” “6 and on the FIFTEENTH DAY of the month is the FEAST… “Seven days unleavened bread ye shall eat… “7 In the first day is holy convocation… “no servile work shall ye do. “10 In it (is) a sabbath rest day [of the first sheaf]… Second addition: “first sheaf of firstfruits” “11 On the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it—the first sheaf.” “Three days thick darkness” encompassed “the very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day” [ad hadzeh etsem yom]” of the First Sheaf. The First Sheaf rested over in the darkness of death and grave “on the sabbath that day great day sabbath”, “the fifteenth day of the First Month” and “sabbath in between” of the passover, the day between “the fourteenth day the very Bone-Day that ye brought an offering (of sacrifice) and reaped and brought your sheaf, and “the day after the sabbath” when “the Priest wave(d) the First Sheaf”— “on the sixteenth day of the First Month (when) they finished to cleanse the sanctuary”. Third addition: “fifty days” “From… the day after the sabbath”—“the sabbath day” after “the selfsame bone-day” that the first sheaf was “reaped from the corners of thy field” and was “brought to the priest” to rest over “the sabbath day” before it would be “wave(d) on the day 213 after the sabbath” … “from the day after the sabbath begin count” FIFTY DAYS to Shavuot / Pentecost! “The LORD spake to Moses… 11 On the day after the sabbath the Priest shall wave the First Sheaf”— “on the sixteenth day of the First Month they finished to cleanse the sanctuary.” “15 Ye shall count from the day…” on which the LORD vanquished the darkness of the plague. The LORD of the “three days thick darkness” of the plague, “on the third day”, “finished”. “From the day after the (passover) sabbath, begin count!” It does not say begin count after the day after the sabbath; and it does not say begin count from the sabbath. The LORD commanded “count from / with / on the day after the sabbath.” Fourth addition ‘Yom Kippur’ to “THIS THAT VERY SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom]” : Yom Kippur Day of Atonement Day of Judgment—mid-year’s Little Passover. “46 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths [for forty years after the passover of Yahweh] when I brought them out of the land of Egypt”… “27 …on the tenth day of the Seventh Month “28 …ye shall do no work in “THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] “29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be AFFLICTED IN THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom], he shall be cut off from among his people “30 and whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom], the same soul I will destroy.” “THREE DAYS thick darkness” which in Exodus coincided on and converged in and merged with “THIS THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom]”, “great day sabbath” of the passover of Yahweh and the “goings out” of Israel out of Egypt, in Leviticus coincided on 214 and converged in and merged with “this the…” three times: “selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” on the one day and “shabbath shabbathon … Day of Affliction and Atonement”, of Yahweh who dwells “among his People”, the children of Israel who now “tabernacled”, “in, the land the LORD had sworn”— so “that your generations may know that I-AM-THE-LORD your God and that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths WHEN I BROUGHT THEM OUT of the land of Egypt.” Noteworthy is it that the fifteenth day of the First Month and the tenth day of the Seventh Month were both on the Sixth Day of the week, and that in both feasts “the day after the sabbath” of the feast, was “the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”. In neither case “the day after the sabbath” of the feast, was on the First Day of the week. Therefore, by counting the single-day pertaining to the tenth day of the Seventh Month thrice called “the selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” as incidences relating to the matter at hand, the Passover of Yahweh which was the first and main and original feast of Israel and the LORD of Israel from which all subsequent feasts evolved, the number of incidences of the use of the phrase ‘etsem yom’ applicable to the passover, stands at 9 out of 12, or, 75%. But taking into account the 3, 4, proleptic, anticipating and prospective instances of ‘etsem yom’ in Genesis 7, 17 and 50, the number of incidence of its use for “the selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” of the PASSOVER, is 12, 13 out of 12, 13 or 100%. Nevertheless it , and, and that . So; let us go on …

Later and Institutionalised instances of the use of ‘etsem yom’ …in Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua … …in Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua … 215

Numbers… The words “bone” – ‘etsem’ and “day” – ‘yom’ do not occur in a closed phrase in Numbers. The most significant incidence in chapter 9:12 (Exodus 12:46) of ‘etsem’, “break / sever no bone of it” (John 19:36), bears upon a fourteenth day of the First Month though, postponed to the fourteenth day of the Second Month, but nevertheless “(kept) according to ALL the ordinances of the passover … on THAT DAY…”, “…THE DAY THAT the tabernacle (‘mishkan’ - place / rest-bed) —the tent (‘ohel’ - ‘covering’)— was reared over the ark (‘aron’ - “coffin”) of the testimony.” 9:9,12; 7:89. “Thou broughtest up this people IN THY MIGHT from among the Egyptians!” It was “the Whole-Day the Selfsame BONE- DAY” of the passover, that the tabernacle was first reared over the mercy seat over the ark of the testimony and the Cloud of the Presence of the LORD was upon and “as the appearance of FIRE” covered withal, verse 15.

Numbers 9 contains an absolute incidence of the Bone-Day of the passover, therefore. And so we have 14 out of 14 incidences of “Bone-Day” being the passover’s day of the Dead being Buried—100%!

In Numbers 19 there is the clear connection with the word ‘etsem’ - “BONE… One SLAIN…”, and “GRAVE”, verse 18. In Numbers 24:8, “God brought Israel forth out of Egypt… He shall break the BONES of his enemies and PIERCE them through with his arrows.” “Bones” and passover are together once again, even the day that they pierced the side of Jesus but broke no bone of his! Virtually every incidence of ‘etsem’ - “bone”, and the dark day(s) of Israel when the LORD brought them out of Egypt, are of the essence, so much so that the final days in which 216

Israel passed over out of the wilderness into the land the LORD had sworn to bring them into, are identical in

Deuteronomy 32:48 and Joshua 5:11. “The LORD spake unto Moses THE SELFSAME BONE- DAY (#15), saying, Get thee up into this mountain… and behold the land of Canaan… and DIE in the mount and be gathered unto thy people [that is, be BURIED]… So Moses died there and the LORD BURIED HIM. “The LORD spake unto Joshua, My servant. Moses, is DEAD. Now therefore arise, GO OVER this Jordan… Then Joshua commanded… PREPARE, for WITHIN THREE DAYS ye shall pass over this Jordan to GO IN to POSSESS the land… On THAT DAY, the LORD magnified Joshua… the Selfsame BONE-DAY (#16) (they) did eat unleavened cakes”. Joshua 5:11,12. The people came up out of Jordan on the TENTH day of the First Month… and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the (First) Month… and in the selfsame BONE-DAY on the day after the passover did eat unleavened cakes.” Now the prophet Ezekiel calls “the tenth day of the First Month”, “the SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY”— “In the beginning of the year in the tenth day of the (First) Month… in the SELFSAME BONE-DAY (#17) the hand of the LORD was upon me.” Ezekiel 40:1. The passover therefore had four days which were “BONE- DAY”, but most important was “the fourteenth day” as seen in the examples above. And in Joshua “after the passover on the fourteenth day of the (First) Month, the fifteenth day of the First Month—without saying—, was “the Selfsame BONE- DAY (they) did eat unleavened cakes”. Joshua 5:11,12. So all “three days thick darkness” of the ninth and tenth plagues, plus “the tenth day of the First Month”, were “the Selfsame BONE-DAY” : BECAUSE OF BEING DAYS OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH—17 out of 17 times. 217

So far in the Pentateuch all occurrences of the Hebrew phrase, ‘etsem-yom’—“Bone-Day”, were PASSOVER BURIAL DAY occurrences. Yet the learned say it does not exist. It does not exist?! It exists! It exists, 100% as the BURIAL-DAY of the passover of Yahweh, the fourteenth and fifteenth day(s) of the First Month most pertinently.

Ben Masada: Jesus missed the Passover that year.

Sword: Wrong Ben, that year, Jesus was the Paschal Lamb who was slaughtered on the day of Preparation to that Passover.

GE: 'Bone-Day' --- Hebrew, ‘etsem-yom’, 18 incidences, at least 13 of with regard to the exodus passover --- has never been translated. The Septuagint rendered the phrase with a Relative Pronoun, ‘hehmera ekeineh’ – ‘that day’. Jerome translated ‘that day’ of the LXX into the Vulgate. Wycliffe translated ‘that day’ of the Vulgate into his translation; and Tyndale translated “that day” of the Textus Receptus, into his translation. The KJV used “the selfsame day” for ‘that day’ of Tyndale. Noteworthy, the KJV does not use “the selfsame day” for the feasts in the Seventh Month, but “that same day” --- three times.

Were believers through 23 centuries the poorer for translations’ loss at translating the Hebrew ‘etsem-yom’, properly? It is my opinion that they were.

JAY: 218

Not all opinions are created equal.

Fay: Can you cite the verse please?

Rabbi: One gets the impression that you haven't read the entire thread.

Fay: Again, Could you cite the verse? One, is not impressed. I still cannot find this occurrence "etsem-yom" in any verse, so anyone that could point me specifically to these occurrences of "etsem-yom", it would be appreciated. I can find cognates, however, but nothing specifically of "etsem-yom", being compounded in such a way.

Sword: You are correct in assuming that the gospel according to the written words of John the beloved disciple who was the only one of the four authors of the gospels to have walked and talked with Jesus is the only account that is correct. And according to John, the last supper was simply that, the last supper, that Jesus had with his closest friends, before the day of Preparation to the Passover, the day on which the Paschal lambs of which Jesus was the reality, were slaughtered.

GE: You may safely believe no Gospels differ and no Gospel is incorrect. According to all four Gospels, the Last Supper was the first “Lord’s Supper” 1Corinthians 11:23 – “before the Feast” John 13:1 “day of Preparation to the Passover”, John 19:14 219

“the first day (of passover) on which the Paschal lambs were slaughtered” Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 1Corinthians 11:23 – “of which Jesus was the reality” (Colossians 2:17). Thus Jesus instituted the Holy Communion before He died BECAUSE: correct, S-word, AS YOU SAY, <…that year, Jesus was the Paschal Lamb who was slaughtered on the day of Preparation to that Passover>. ... BUT, was BURIED, “the day of Preparation…”---‘Preparation’ though: “…WHICH (wa)s The Fore-Sabbath that day great day sabbath…” of the passover. Mark 15:42 John 19:31. Make your own conclusions, I bet they will amount to Thursday Crucified; Friday Buried, Sabbath Resurrected. Because? Because Burial was "the selfsame WHOLE DAY BONE- DAY" of the passover, Abib 15, "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" -- 'Friday' all day the whole day.

Disciple: strange..

Rosends: The word etzem means "the essence of a thing" so it refers to bones of a person and the essential timing or aspect of a moment or idea.

GE: I would rather say the word ‘etzem’, means “bone(s)”, so it refers to ‘the essence of thing(s)’ <>!

Rosends: It is used in conjunction with the word "hayom" (THE day) in the form of etzem once in the 5 books of Moses (Lev 23:14), in the form of b'etzem (with the b- prefix indicating in/on/at) 220

11 times. The first is Gen 7:13 referring to the specific day on which Noah and his family entered the ark. It is never simply written as "etzem yom." The word's meaning is dependent on the context and object, so its use changes and meaning when referring to "day" is different from "sky" (cf Ex 24:10 where it means "appearance") and from "strength" (Job 21:23). Assuming it means "bone" in relation to day is inaccurate as it operates as an adjective, not a noun.

Disciple: So, by not writing 'bone day', is it an omission that this was not a universally practiced custom?

Rosends: I don't know what "geh-tzem" is. There is no gimel in etsem.

GE: And I don’t know what a is—, a ‘g’? But as far I am in my ignorance able to distinguish, <"gehtzem">—the way Wigram’s enters it—simply is a matter of transliteration of <‘etsem’>—the way Young’s enters it … ‘it’— the Hebrew NOUN for “BONE(S)”.

Rosends: I don't know what your English concordances do what you claim they do. Why aren't you using a Hebrew one? There is no such thing as "bone-day". The phrasal construct in Hebrew has a word which, when used as a noun refers to "bone" but which means "essence, specific" when used as an adjective. You can't read a book by a "light beer" even though "light" when used as a noun, is something which illuminates. As an adjective, it means something else.

Disciple: 221

'Light beer' is referring to beer, that's not a very good analogy. Also, just because something can have two 'meanings' doesn't mean one is exclusive over the other. 'Light beer' is not a good description for a strong ale. Since there are two meanings, at least, your reasoning seems a tad subjective to me.

GE: <…when used as a noun refers to "bone"…>—a Noun; <… but which means "essence, specific">—both Nouns: <…when used as an adjective>?!?! ) means something else> than --- like what?! Like which or what ?! No wonder Rosends, you admit you !

Rosends: Light beer is the "light" adjective referring to beer. It is not the noun "light" connected to beer. It is more than just having 2 meanings -- it is having a different meaning when used as a different part of speech. I could make the same point with word "flat" -- a flat is noun meaning (among other things) an apartment, but when used in front of the word "tire" (as an adjective) it means something else. parts of speech matter in translating. You can pat me on the back, but my order does not have a back when there is a back order. And by the way, light beer.

Levite: Seriously?! "Bone day?!"

Rosends: has several different meanings, of which .ע.צ.מ The root "bone" is only one. When used in the adjective form בעצם construction with a following noun, such as in the phrase always has the significance of ,בעצם תמו or ,בעצם השמים or ,היום 222

this" ,בעצם היום הזה the very thing" or "the thing itself," as in" in" ,בעצם תמו the very heavens," or" ,בעצם השמים very day," or his very innocence." If there were going to be such a ridiculous construction as יום ,bone day," it would take a different form altogether" yom ha-atzamot, "day of the bones." That construction ,העצמות is pretty much universal in standard phrases like "such and such day."

Brick: That had me going. Got me.

GE: Substantiate! And substantiate with Bible Text! ‘ghee-tzem yom’ in Exodus 12 17 ‘gheetzem ha-yom hezeg’: “in-the-bone-of” ‘gheetzem’; “the day” ‘ha-yom’; “this the same” ‘heezeg’ 41 ‘gheetzem ha-yom hazeg’: “in-the-bone-of” ‘gheetzem’; “the-day” ‘ha-yom’; “the same” ‘hazeg’ 42 ‘layiel’ “night of”; ‘hu-ha-layiel huha’ “it the night exact / selfsame the” 51 ‘gheetzem ha-yom hahu’: “in-the-bone-of” ‘gheetzem’; “the day” ‘ha-yom’; “the selfsame / exact” ‘hahu’ ..meaning exactly the opposite of ... meaning exactly exclusively "the Whole-Day" = "The Selfsame Day" = the PASSOVER'S—“ESSENTIAL- Day”—"Bone-Day" "the fourteenth day of the First Month" (in Exodus) = "the fifteenth day of the First Month" (in all subsequent Scriptures). Without exception 'etsem-yom' has bearing on a, in some sense or another, BURIAL day. 223

The concept and use of the phraseology have survived its extinct translation in the Scriptures in e.g., 'Obituary' or "Boneday"; 'Cemetery' / 'Graveyard' or "Bone-yard"; Chillian deadly potent 'Bone-Day' brew. Exodus 12:14 "this day ye shall keep a feast" is "the Selfsame"--"BONE-Day" in Leviticus 23: "that ye have brought an offering (of sacrifice)": "the fourteenth day of the First Month" Exodus 12:6 Leviticus 23:5. Which is "the Essential Same Day WHOLE-Day when ye REAP the harvest of your land the corners of your field", "and BRING a (First) Sheaf to the priest" which the priest "accept(ed) and the day after the sabbath (of the passover feast, Abib 15) shall wave".

Shalom: Thanks for sharing

GE: Exodus 12:14 does not have 'etsem' at all --- correct. Exodus 12:14 being "the fourteenth day of the First Month" Exodus 12:6, 18 Numbers 9:3,5;28:16 Joshua 5:10, and Leviticus 23:5 being "the fourteenth day of the First Month", both Scriptures speak of "The Selfsame -- Essentially-the- WHOLE-Day-Bone-Day" of passover. I therefore mean Ex 12:17 and Lev 23:14 point… to a specific day on the calendar… ‘etzem’ meaning "that very", it is “The Selfsame -- Essentially-the-WHOLE-Day-Bone-Day" OF PASSOVER, “the fourteenth day of the First Month” … --- Correct. Now verse 42, not having the word ‘etsem’ at all, but referring to “that night” of the fourteenth in Exodus 12:8,29,31,42, it is “this that NIGHT”, OF, "The Selfsame -- Essentially-the- WHOLE-Day-Bone-Day" of passover. Exodus 12:17,51. The LXX in fact has “that very NIGHT” in verse 41 for the Hebrew, “etsem YOM” – “Bone-DAY”. 224

Rosends: So you see that etzem means "that very" but still insert "bone" into your reading which means that the word has to mean 2 different things and operate as two different parts of speech, simultaneously?

GE: No; and, Yes. No—, "that very" being indicated with OTHER words than ; and Yes, "that very" being indicated with - “bone”, AS WELL! Exactly, just like you were doing in your remark I am now replying to. With this difference, that I am not any word or words like you do but aver I do, but use this simple principle, that if a equals b and b equals c, then a = c. Exodus 12:51, “ON THE BONE THE DAY THIS (VERY DAY) Yahweh BROUGHT Israel OUT”---“THAT DAY” and NO, other day! Therefore the day received its NAME: “Bone-Day”—which is not the name of any day other than the day the LORD redeemed his People in. So are verses 41 and 42 speaking of "the selfsame day BONE- Day" : "night" AND, "day”— “the-selfsame-day-WHOLE- Day-of-Essence-and-BONE-the-SAME- Day”—“ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES”— ‘the God- given and therefore eschatological imperative WHOLE AND WHOLENESS’[*Lohmeyer] of it which historically was "THICK DARKNESS" indistinguishable "three days" of the two last plagues within and upon the Land-of-Darkness, Egypt, IN ONE: “The Great Day of the LORD” and “Passover of Yahweh” IN WHICH HE BROUGHT ISRAEL OUT. Exodus chapter 15!

Levite: 225

Are you joking? Do you not actually understand how language works? There is no "bone day." The idea is beyond ludicrous. When the root is expressed as a noun it means "bone." When it is expressed as an adjective, it means "the very thing," or "the thing itself." Just because the same letters make up the root does not mean that "that very day" means "bone day," any more than, say, the prophet Ezekiel had a vision of reanimating dry "thing-itselfs." You cannot just decide, because you think it would be neat, or have some sort of cool and mysterious significance, that words actually mean whatever you think they ought to mean based on your speculations over some open concordances. You have now had a few people who actually have functional facility with Hebrew tell you that you are wrong. If it helps, I actually have advanced degrees in Jewish Studies and Rabbinic Literature, and I can promise you, there is no such thing as "bone day." It's just painfully, cringe-worthily, incorrect.

Avi: This may be a first, Gerhard...... but I am actually going to have to agree with Levite on this...... why are you giving us line and verse repeatedly from Exodus and Leviticus to prove that Passover is...."Bone Day"...?...my G-d...who would care anyway ??? Can we step back....for a moment....and you tell us what you are up to??....are you trying to disprove Torah scripture ??...if so...it seems like an illogical approach....it would be a strawman strategy....is that your game Gerhard ???....on the other hand... with a name like "Gerhard"....are you a "True Scotsman", Gerhard ??

GE: Denied! The root ‘gehtzem’ / ‘etsem’ is one noun which means "bone" and a NOUN EACH time it occurs in the phrase ‘etsem-yom’ that as the NAME of the day refers to and means, “Bone-Day”. In most cases the two ‘roots’ or independent words, ‘etsem’ – “bone” and ‘yom’ – “day” concur with OTHER adjectival words like Articles or Pronouns or Prepositions which may but are not, or . “Bone-Day” or “the” : “Bone-Day” : or “the selfsame” : “Bone-Day” or whatever, the two viz., the two words —two Substantives—are, ‘etsem’ – “bone”, and, ‘yom’ – “day”—two NOUNS. They cannot be confused for anything else and are not themselves also those other words-prefixes and or words-suffixes which in the incedences of their occurrence are applied before or and after them. They ought to be understood for what they mean in and by themselves—not for what 2300 years of neglect and oblivion have reduced their single, combined, meaning to --- which reduction has reached meaninglessness. In other words, the Hebrew expression ‘etsem-yom’ for the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh must be RESTORED to its first-ever, passover-meaning, and be redeemed from its nonsensical ‘dynamic-equivalent’ – that is – its only for modern society known and understandable meaning. Mere parts of speech --- Nouns, Verbs, Adjectives etc. --- are not what constitute language; they are only the bricks the house of language are built with. In the foundations and floors as well as in the walls of bricks, there are reinforcements of steel --- the Syntax and Idiom of any language. Syntax and Idiom include words and phrases. Such as "bone" plus "day" are not just isolated words, one a Noun, the other also a Noun. As much and as good as 'bone' can be considered 227 the Adjective, as much and as good can 'day' be considered the Adjective IN THE NOMENCLATURE-PHRASE; "Bone- Day". One learns about Nouns and Adjectives before grade three at school; one learns about LIVING LANGUAGE for the rest of one's life be one a plumber [like myself] or a Professor in Learning [like my best friend is]. And my best friend will be the first to tell you [long before I would] he is every day of his life learning more about things he never could have dreamed existed or were possible. I am the person here who READ Torah Scripture, and QUOTE Torah Scripture and THINK Torah Scripture and INTERPRET Torah Scripture --- but am seen as applying and as if that is my . I am not playing games; I take GOD’S WORD seriously; I’m taking it literally; and I’m studying it as a LIVING REALITY, not as a dead letter or dead letters constituting mere separated dead words or mixed up dead bones, but alive, word-groupings and sensible sentences of “BONE” and “SUBSTANCE” like Ezekiel’s dead bones resurrected to life again. I do NOT boast having . I depend totally on actual great scholars who do have unbiased and unprejudiced and objective and pertinent, who tell me just what I am quoting from them who just are quoting from the Torah and nothing else. So, whether you or not, this sewer theologian and back-bush rhetorician as I am being called, am telling you, you LIKE ALL your colleagues of the past 2300 years or so, tell that BECAUSE YOU DO NOT CONSULT THE TORAH, but its translations of the past 2300 years or so. what you do and what you conclude on strength of what you do or rather do NOT do --- CONSULT AND USE, THE TORAH.

Avi: Psst....hey Gerhard....I detect a wee bit of anger in them.....bone days...... what's up with that ???....are we cool having this dialectical debate ???.. Anyways....why not switch gears a little here....Gerhard...is that a German or Austrian name ?? And, if you don't mind my asking...where do you live Gerhard ?

Levite: This isn't an unusual usage or a highly debatable meaning. This is extremely well-known, and it is so because the meaning is quite plain from the form, construction, and typical usage structure of the verses it is found in. What is more, it should be all the less debatable considering that the OP's proposed meaning is ludicrous. It would make no sense in Biblical Hebrew, or in the thought and styles of the Biblical era-- for that matter, it would make no sense in Rabbinic, Medieval, or Modern Hebrew, either. This is simply a case of there being a word or root that has two separate meanings, used differently, but each entirely consistently with itself and its contexts. At best, you might be able to stretch to make a case for the meaning of "the very thing" or "the thing itself" as being originally an idiomatic usage, in the sense of the essence of something being the bones of the matter. But even that is speculation of the highest order: much more likely that it is simply a word form that has different meanings-- something that often occurs in many languages. Especially since if there were a relationship between the meanings, it is likely that there would be a pun made using the two meanings somewhere in the Tanach-- the 229

Tanach being extremely fond of punning and other word play-- and there is not.

GE: The particular and specific, and exceptional use for 100% some figurative or real Burial day say 80 % of which is particularly and specifically for the real and historic and exceptional and unique day of and for the interment of the passover sacrifice, de-categorises "etsem yom" as or or hyperbole or pleonasm or expression. "Bone-Day" is a Name for "that great day of the LORD" in which "healing" was in its wings “THE WHOLE DAY”. The phraseology “Bone-Day” in the Scriptures it occurs in, is not — obviously not. It is specific and totally un-known in the . Quite correct and certain! Because the phraseology “Bone- Day” in the Scriptures as recent as 2011 only, has been uncovered and made known, and in the three years since has obtained already. The phraseology “Bone-Day” in the Scriptures it occurs in, not in the least has been : or specimen would have abounded everywhere in and outside the Scriptures. The meaning of “Bone-Day” is quite plain from the form, construction, and exceptional and SPECIFIC usage and structure of the verses it is found in, IN THE SCRIPTURES. NOT IN ‘translations’ though— where either its meaning or form, construction, or exceptional and SPECIFIC usage or / and structure, in any case, is NEVER found. But wherever used in the Scriptures in whichever combination or phrasing in whichever order, ‘etsem-yom’ always has something—directly or indirectly but inseparable—to do with the passover. 230

Rosends: The meaning of "b'etzem hayom" is plain from the form, construction and specific usage. The addition of the notion of "bone" is pure invention on your part.

GE: I thought you would say ‘my’, notion of "bone-day", because has every objection not been against of “Bone- Day”? I have never maintained anything else!? But please help me, and transliterate for me <"b'etzem hayom"> with English words? Please don’t use translation? The , and Relative Pronoun, ‘that’, ‘day’ as found in all translations, is what is since it says absolutely nothing of the “BONE” OR SUBSTANCE or ESSENCE or REAL MATTER of “the day” that is “the DAY the BONE-DAY” of the Text, of the Context, and, of the Content which in every of the relevant Scriptures is the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh--- which “Christ, (was) the SUBSTANCE” of. (Colossians 2:17) OF COURSE “that day” should be all the less debatable considering it definitively makes no sense in the Biblical Hebrew in the context of the Passover of Yahweh, or in the historical thought and worldview of the children of Israel whom the LORD brought out of Egypt and planted in the land He swore He would, in the “BONE-DAY” of their being “brought out”. . Rosends: No, it is less debatable because it makes perfect sense. Because God is pointing to a specific date (in Hebrew that makes gramma-tical and logical sense -- though you wouldn't know because you don't know Hebrew) he uses the words for "specific date." . GE: 231

Nobody needs to in order to see and understand that . That is unmistakably clear from the context and the data given, “the fourteenth day of the First Month”. But you are o so absolutely right, nobody will know, if he did not , that WHICH WAS THE PASSOVER’S , “BONE-DAY”! And nobody ever has cared before translations began the perversion in the NEW Testament Scriptures with the clear intention to DESTROY its existence and influence, THERE! Here you have NOW laid bare the root-cause of the discovery of the 2300 years long BURIED and forgotten “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh, namely, its denial and frantic escape from, in the CHRISTIAN Scriptures used among Christians, the New Testament Scriptures. So— vogue and styles of for that matter, are of no consequence whatsoever for finding the “Bone-Day’s” original and New Testament single, selfsame, old as well as new, MEANING. Your every objection to the OP's proposed specific religious as well as literal—single— meaning of it, is what is .

Rosends: Actually, the translations and understandings which have been going strong for 2300+ years are persuasive and the attempt to ignore the rules of language and invent this "bone day" thing is what is ludicrous.

GE: If a case of simply there being a word or root that has different meanings, used differently, but each entirely consistent with itself and its context, the case of the two words or roots, “Bone” and “Day” in their PECULIAR OWN construct in the phrase “Bone-Day” and in their PECULIAR OWN context of the Passover of Yahweh, is the perfect example of such a word 232 or root or phrase that has , unique, and exclusively OWN, meaning. The two words in the combination(s) they are found in, in the Scriptures, have literal as well as figurative / religious meaning and significance ! Meaning and significance namely, not only of <"the very thing" or "the thing itself">; nor of “that day” merely; but “Bone-Day” in the sense of the ESSENCE of it— “bones” of it quite literally being of with regard to the “day” and the “date” of it being of --- the “bones” namely of The Killed and The Dead : the “bones” of the body of Jesus Christ “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God” … which not in the least, is , but the and “BONE” and SUBSTANCE and ESSENCE of FAITH --- of Christian Faith— which indeed is THE of much more than simply a word form or and word-combination that has different meanings and often occurs in many languages. It does not have in any other language than the meaning it has in only the Hebrew of the Torah and Prophets only in the Context and of the Passover of Yahweh.

Rosends: If one wanted to, one could make an exegetical reading using the clear adjective as a hidden reference to another sense of the word, the noun. But this would not make the phrase "bone- day". It would make the pshat "that very day" with an occluded reference to something else because of the shared .Ein mikra yotzeh midei pshuto .עצמ letters

GE: I just don’t see

I THINK this, is the same as what I see in what you view and circumscribe in scholarly terms as the 'pun'. In fact if I am not mistaken because I am not versed in Hebrew. But I would not view it as a pun, but as the actual direct definite and unmistakable "Feast" : "Day" of Abib 15 on which the "flesh" of the sacrifice was eaten "in this that night to be solemnly observed unto the LORD”. The question remains after all and above all, WHY no ‘ordinary’ Relative Pronoun or and Article(s) or and Preposition(s) or combination(s) of Relative Pronoun(s) or and Article(s) or and Preposition(s) are applied in the 18 specific Passover-Scriptures, 1) singly, specifically by itself, e.g., “that day” in hundreds of incidences elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures;[*] or, 2) in any combination with others specifically by themselves in hundreds more of incidences elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures, e.g. (like you have referred to) “this that very day”?[*] But instead the case is that such Articles, Relative Pronouns and or Prepositions and combinations withal, without exception always, in every occurrence of them, are applied in closest possible nexus with the unequivocal Substantival or NOUN-

Rosends: What is amazing is that you believe that no one has gotten this fairly simple pun right for 2300 years, based in scholarship and exposure to the text in its original, and you, without benefit of reading the original, have come up with a reading which is the correct one.

Jay: Exactly: a marriage of arrogance and ignorance begetting drivel.

GE: prerequisites fairly often usage of the pun. Illustrate it with the pun! Can you come up with ONE example from the Scriptures? --- ONE pun? ONE case of the "bone-day" even in secular literature? Then please show me? You are ?

Rosends: The word play in the Bible surrounding the naming of each of Jacob's children (and the names in the generations before) plus Esau's punning on Jacob's name in invoking the similarly 235 rooted "e-k-v" root meaning "deceit". How about the understanding of the word "chesed" as a reference to righteousness and a stork? How about the understanding of l'olam as l'aleim in the statement "zeh shmi l'olam" in Ex 3:15? The text is rife with such double word meanings.

GE: I am sorry I did not say specifically the pun with the words ‘etsem’ and or ‘yom’.

Rosends: The sacrifice was not interred. It was eaten. At best, the connection to the word "bone" is as a pun and that is being charitable. What is amazing is that you believe that no one has gotten this fairly simple pun right for 2300 years, based in scholarship and exposure to the text in its original, and you, without benefit of reading the original, have come up with a reading which is the correct one.

GE: --- Correct, the sacrifice was not interred, it was eaten! It was buried in corruptibility, and assimilated with mortality. And “that which remained”, “the next day”, far into the sand desert at the “Grotto in the Rock”, “Succoth”, was “burned with fire”. The sacrifice was burned—it was buried, “in dishonour”, “dust to dust; earth to earth”. It was Raised in honour! “And Moses carried the bones of Joseph out with him” (like a sheaf on his shoulders)— with honour “that selfsame day the Bone- Day” of the future First and Head Sheaf before Whom would bow and stoop all the sheaves of the children of Israel.

Rosends: So you now have to reinterpret the word "inter" to justify your 236 statement that the day is a day of interment? That's bizarre. The sacrifice is not buried. Saying it is "buried in corruptibility" has no linguistic or logical value. . GE: All you have said, Rosends, amounts to saying, I, , and to deny its very incidence right where it is written 18 times, at least 16 of which are in the singular context of the passover’s “Bone-Day”—“Day-Essential”— which provided the opportunity for Israel to leave the plagued land.

Rosends: It is, at best, a pun, an example of word play trying to make an extended point IN ADDITION to the regular meaning in order to expand and give ANOTHER level or dimension of meaning. Your claim that it rises to a level beyond that is absolutely mistaken.

GE: Collins English Dictionary, ‘pun’, the use of words or phrases to exploit ambiguities and innuendos in their meaning, usually for humorous effect; a play on words. That is what Rosends say, 18 instances of the mention of “Bone-Day”—“great day sabbath … to its season … when they always had to KILL the passover”, is supposed to mean --- God at his most serious, playing with words and , and .

Disciple: 'Bone day' would signify bone as a noun, not an interred sacrifice. I don't think that really makes sense.

GE: Rosends argued 'bone' is an Adjective rather than a Noun; now 237 you turn it around. Whatever, it is the COMBINED words making up the Nomenclature 'etsem yom' -- "Bone-Day" which is Nomen-NOUN-Clature-Collection/Phrase for nothing else than THIS, DAY, the “Bone-Day” of the passover. Defining "Bone-Day" a makes it an eaten . But its true meaning being the DAY upon which the sacrifice was killed and eaten – “the fourteenth DAY of the First Month" – puts an end to such ridiculing ‘explanations’.

Rosends: The word play in the Bible surrounding the naming of each of Jacob's children (and the names in the generations before) plus Esau's punning on Jacob's name in invoking the similarly rooted "e-k-v" root meaning "deceit". How about the understanding of the word "chesed" as a reference to righteousness and a stork? How about the understanding of l'olam as l'aleim in the statement "zeh shmi l'olam" in Ex 3:15? The text is rife with such double word meanings.

GE: Something sounded familiar to me about the Jacob instance. But admitted, this is above me. Thanks in any case; I accept what you say. You have not provided one ‘pun’, ‘playing’ with the words either ‘yom’ or ‘etsem’. Quite understandable why not! I still cannot see the bearing your examples have on the 18 instances of 'etsem yom' for the passover's "Bone-DAY", or that your examples can make any difference to its meaning. “etsem” and “yom” don’t have any of the or similar sounding and or instantaneous / accidental similar or like the examples you supplied reveal. I could see ‘similarity’ in sound and letters in and without knowing meaning or incidences of use. 238

But (having consulted three of the best Hebrew concordances / lexicons and having perused the Hebrew in Exodus letter for letter) I was able to find no or similar sounding letters or similar or instantaneous and accidental in the case of any of the occurrences of ‘etsem- yom’.

Rosends: The Hebrew hasn't changed. It was the same before and after 2011. The meaning was established a long time ago. As has been stated repeatedly, the phrase "etzem yom" never happens. B'etzem happens. hayom happens. But "etzem yom" simply never happens.

GE: Sorry, I don't get it. "Bone-Day" 'gehtzem-yom', 'b'ehtsem- hayom' whatever, . Being mentioned 18, 20 times as some kind of Burial-Day, and in Exodus having been "observed" a "Feast" in which "ye shall Kill the passover" and "THIS THAT NIGHT", "shall eat the flesh" and "the next daylight shall burn that which remained" --- being DATED, "the FOURTEENTH day of the First Month", 'b'etzem', 'b'etzemhayom' whatever, HAPPENED! Yes, the Hebrew hasn't changed. It was the same before and after 2011. The meaning was established a long time ago even before the Torah was written. But the meaning of the Hebrew ‘etsem- yom’ got lost through translation into Greek 300 years BC.

Rosends: The translation is not highly debatable. The reason it includes nothing of "bone" is because the word has no place there. That's like saying that the phrase should read "bone ocean" because yom has the same letters as yam, ocean and the fact that it isn't there makes every other translation of "day" highly 239 debatable. The context is a specific day on the calendar so it is called "that day." Trying to read in Jesus strains everything.

GE: Now you say <"b'etzem hayom">, ; then you carry on over , which <…has the same letters as yam, ocean>; and concludes, <…the fact that it [ - <"day">] isn't there makes every other translation of "day" highly debatable.> Then you contradict yourself, directly, making nonsense of the nonsense you have just said, with stating, Exactly! The context is a specific day on the calendar GIVEN IN THE CONTEXT IN THE TEXT: “the fourteenth day of the First Month”; so it is called—not merely <"that day">— that, is not true! It is called THERE in the context in the text, written: “that selfsame BONE-DAY-WHOLE-DAY-DAY- OF-SUBSTANCE” from the distinctive words ‘etsem’ – “Bone” and ‘yom’ – “Day” employed in the Adjectival Phrase in full with Articles et al, or abstracted to the bone, ‘etsem- yom’. It’s only PRETENDING that it does not exist; IT EXISTS! It exerts its word-power by its presence to give its Substantive Noun-word meaning: ‘etsem’, which is, ‘Bone”. The phraseology “Bone-Day” in the Scriptures it occurs in, is not — obviously not. It is specific and totally un-known in the . Quite correct and certain! Because the phraseology “Bone- Day” in the Scriptures as recent as 2011 only, has been uncovered and made known, and in the three years since has obtained and debated, < meaning>, already. Jews and Judaism has never seen, what understood, the passover’s “Bone-Day”. It is a pil they won’t even try to swallow, but will spew out, most definitely. 240

Nevertheless, scholars who are uninterested in any issue about the meaning of and have never thought of it, despite, present it in its literal morphology and syntactical construct as collectively and contextually meaning just what the separate words “bone (and) day”, spell. These scholars with no ‘pun’ to excuse or innuendos to make, present this literal phrase with both its word-parts ‘etsem’, and, ‘yom’, for “bone-day”, and while not realising it themselves, state every occurrence of ‘etsem-yom’ as an autonomous and self-explanatory expression of the reality of the “Bone-Day” of Israel’s exodus. Neither words “bone” or “day” if separated or isolated or on their own or independent, or omitted altogether, would have carried over the “Substance-and-BONE”-of Israel’s Salvation on “Bone-Day”. Which was exactly what happened when the LXX, the most basic of which is to render the literal words with the same literal words of the language translated into, before, starting any interpretation through ‘translation’, and rendered the Hebrew ‘etsem yom’ as if it does not exist, and supplied their own invention instead [‘hehmera ekeineh’]—, the mere Relative Pronoun, , for “that BONE-day”..

Rosends: Of course, all of this is predicated on there being an extant construct "etzem-yom" which never actually occurs.

GE: <… there being an extant construct "etzem-yom" which never actually occurs>?! A casual matter to you; to me—a total stranger to the Hebrew language—, an insurmountable obstacle to the same complacent aplomb. I just cannot understand how you can make a statement like this. You must learn to reach laymen on their level, sir. You are far too high for mortals like 241 me to understand. <… there being an extant construct "etzem- yom" which never actually occurs>?! The does although it from the first has not been in translations. But it occurs in the Hebrew text which I have, the Kregel edition of the OT Genesis and Exodus, and is referred to in the Concordance I use, Wigram’s "The Englishman's Concordance” (book, not website); as well as in Davidson’s ‘Lexicon’ also in my possession no better than, exists. It says in 'Englishman's', "The chief object proposed by this work ... In the present state of lexicography it seemed in a peculiar way desirable to lead each student to deduce his “meaning and definition of words” … from the use made of them by the Holy Ghost.” May God grant me the grace

Rosends: Let me make a list for you and show you why you are wrong. You won't want to hear it. I understand. It isn't easy, but here we go. Note, it helps if you read Hebrew. You don't. Therefore this will be wasted breath. But anyway Gen 7:11 בה תיום הה תזהה 7:13 בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה The specific day of getting on the ark 17:23, 26 (the specific day of circumcision) בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה Gen 50:20 (Joseph reassuring his brothers about how he felt and what God had make happen on that day) כה תיום הה תזהה Ex 12:17 (establishing the 14th at night as Passover) בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 12:41 – connecting the date of the exodus to Passover בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 12:46 – the bone not being broken in the sacrifice (prefix 242

“and”, the only time) וַנעהצהם 12:8, 12 on that night בהתלה תיַנליַ֖מההה תזהה 12:51 the specific date of the exodus בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 24:10 – of the sky (no “day” at all) וכַנעהצהם הה תשיַ֖ממהתיְבם Lev 23:21 – establishing the specific date of Shavu’ot , בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 23:14 – until that Shavu’ot date you improperly transliterate as "ad hadzeh) עה תד-עהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה etsem yom") 23:28, 29, 30 establishing the specific date of yom kippur בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה So unless you are saying that Passover, Yom Kippur, the day of a circumcision and the day Noah got on the ark are all "bone days" you have a problem. And unless you can show the as a noun (one way עהצהם grammatical use of the adjective would be to show it with the conjunction before it as conjunctions can introduce nouns) and explain why the use of it an adjective means a noun, you have no legs (not one, not two and certainly not three) to stand on. And remember -- none of these constructions (none of them -- I'll say that again, "none of them") has the construction you insist on "etzem yom." It just doesn't happen. .has no D sound in it הה תיום הה תזהה By the way, the Hebrew of

GE: Much appreciated! Thank you very much. Yes, I am saying that Passover, Yom Kippur, the day of Abraham’s circumcision and the day Noah went into the ark are all "bone days"! Thanks that you saw that! What I shall do now, DV, is, 243

First, to ask you why a Concordance like ‘The Englishman’s’ uses “geh-tzem” in immediate contextual sequence with “yom”; and why do Young’s Analytical do the same (transcribed ‘etsem’ and ‘yom’ respectively); and why Davidson’s Lexicon contain the same Hebrew in the same Scriptures? Next, is to ask you, Why, please, do you not transliterate the Hebrew for me? Third. I shall now, DV, take this post of yours to Professor Combrink dean of the faculty Hebrew at the University of Stellenbosch, for his comments.

Rosends: Thanks. Tell him Rabbi Rosen says hi.

GE: But before I do any of this, I herewith do tell you in your face, בַנעהצהםהה תיום “—THIS: is YOUR rejectable fabrication, Quote הה, תזהה 23:14 – until that Shavu’ot date” End Quote And I will also tell you I am no longer fooled with this specific, Quote—“Lev בַנעהצהםהה תיום establishing the specific date of Shavu’ot – 23:21 End Quote הה”, תזהה

Rosends: I don't know what there is to fooled by. The text is pretty clear. And you shall designate on this very day a holy occasion it shall be for you; you shall not perform any work of labor. [This is] an eternal statute in all your dwelling places כא.וקַנריַ֖מ אתהם בַנעהצהם | ההתיום ההתזהה מְבקַנריַ֖מ א .throughout your generations קהדהשיְבהַניהה ליַ֖מכהם כיַ֖מל מַנלהאכהתעשבהדיַ֖מה לא תהתעששו חקקהתת עוליַ֖מם בַנכיַ֖מל מושַנבהתייכהם :לַנדהרהתייכהם

GE: 244

Shavuot nowhere features in this place, at this time. “God’s sacrifice” was the passover sacrifice and “this very Bone-Day” was “the fourteenth day of the First Month” in verse 5 as in Exodus 12:6 and 17,18. “…an eternal statute throughout your generations” i.e., Exodus 12:27; 41,42. …we shall see what a real scholar has to say : Professor Combrink. Just wait, God willing.

Rosends: That sounds exciting -- don't forget to ask him about definite article prefixes and whether they introduce nouns or adjectives. I'll bet he says "nouns."

GE: Further: The whole of Leviticus -- as Exodus, as Genesis -- is a Chiasm of smaller Chiasms. Without taking the distribution of the rhythmic return of ideas in these chiasms into account, one is prone to attribute wrong verses to the wrong ideas and wrong ideas to the wrong verses. That is why Leviticus 23:21 does not give the fiftieth day in verse 20 the name of “Bone- Day”, but the day “When ye reap the harvest” and “the corners” for the “first sheaf of firstfruits” in verse 22!

Rosends: You seem to be referring to 23:22 which makes no reference to a specific day or holiday. It speaks of "and when you harvest" which is not a single day at all. When you reap the harvest of your Land, you shall not completely remove the corner of your field during your harvesting, and you shall not gather up the gleanings of your harvest. [Rather,] you shall leave these for the poor person and כב. ובַנקקצַנרַנ כהם אהתקַנצְביר .for the stranger. I am the Lord, your God ארַנצַנכהםלאתַנכהתלהה פַנאת שיַ֖מדַנך בַנקקצַנרה ך וַנלהקהט ךקַנצְבירַנ לא תַנלה תקיט להעיַ֖מנְבי וַנלה תגירתה תעשזהב :אהתיַ֖מם אשנְבייַנההויַ֖מה אללהייכהם 245

GE: Yes, 23:21 "selfsame day" and 22, "when you reap" go together; not 23:20 “wave the first loaves of firstfruits” and 21 "the selfsame day Bone-Day". “The first, first day ye shall remove leaven” Exodus 12:15, was “the very Self-Same-Bone-Day ye shall eat neither bread nor parched corn nor green ears”—A DAY OF FASTING —“the fourteenth day of the First Month when they KILLED the passover” and “remove(d) leaven from your houses”. Only the corners of the field of harvest was “reaped” for only the first sheaf which had to be brought to the priest on the “Bone-Day” for to be “waved before the LORD on the day after the sabbath” which was the day after the day the first sheaf was cut. The first sheaf could not be reaped on any other day than “the day they always KILLED the passover”— the cutting of it just like the removing of leaven and leavened food, was one of the main elements in PREPARATION for the Feast Day and sabbath of the passover the next day. “The very Self-Same-Bone-Day ye shall eat neither bread nor parched corn nor green ears” … “Is not THIS the FAST that I have chosen, to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens and let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is not THIS the FAST that I have chosen to deal thy bread to the hungry and that thou bring the poor that are cast out of thy house? When thou seest the naked, that thou cover him and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning and thy health shall spring forth speedily: and THY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL GO BEFORE THEE: THE GLORY OF THE LORD SHALL BE THY REWARD! Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I AM, when thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger and speaking vanity [Colossians 2:13,14]; when thou draw out thy soul to the hungry and satisfy the afflicted soul. Then shall thy light rise in obscurity 246 and thy darkness be as the noonday. The LORD shall guide Thee continually and satisfied thy soul in drought, and make fat thy BONES. Then Thou shalt be like a watered garden [Luke 23:43] and like a spring of water whose waters fail not.” [John 4:14] Isaiah 58:6-11.

Rosends: Gerhard Ebersoehn said: Why, please, do you not transliterate the Hebrew for me? OK: Gen 7:11 בה תיום הה תזהה bayom hazeh -- 7:13 בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה b'etzem hayon hazeh The specific day of getting on the ark 17:23, 26 (the specific day of circumcision) b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה Gen 50:20 (Joseph reassuring his brothers about how he felt and what God had make happen on that day) kayom [Sic.] hazeh כה תיום הה תזהה Ex 12:17 (establishing the 14th at night as Passover) b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 12:41 – connecting the date of the exodus to Passover b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 12:46 – the bone not being broken in the sacrifice (prefix “and”, the only time) וַנעהצהם v'etzem 12:8, 12 on that night baliyla hazeh בהתלה תיַנליַ֖מההה תזהה 12:51 the specific date of the exodus b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 24:10 – of the sky (no “day” at all) u'ch'etzem hashamayim וכַנעהצהם הה תשיַ֖ממהתיְבם Lev 23:21 – establishing the specific date of Shavu’ot ,b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה 247

23:14 – until that Shavu’ot date you improperly transliterate as "ad hadzeh) עה תד-עהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה etsem yom") - od-etzem hayom hazeh 23:28, 29, 30 establishing the specific date of yom kippur b'etzem hayom hazeh בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה

GE: Again, Thank you very much. This helps me a lot! For now .... I don't see how the NAME of the day can be seen as used (by me) as an Adjective. Yes, an Adjectival NOUN; that I understand, but it seems you do not understand.

Rosends: you) עה תד-עהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה until that Shavu’ot date – 23:14 improperly transliterate as "ad hadzeh etsem yom") - od-etzem hayom hazeh>

GE: Thanks for correcting me. And thanks for correcting me so courteously. [Cut] To this day Jews eat the last supper of the old year in the evening of the fourteenth day of the First Month. They with it introduce the feast of the removal of leaven, 'Bedikat Chametz'. This was a serious matter from the first. If leaven was found in one's house after the next morning of the fourteenth, he had to be killed. Exodus 12:15c. The fourteenth and fifteenth days of the First Month was dated "the selfsame day" of the fourteenth before and at the time Israel was brought out of Egypt. In fact, it says "THREE DAYS thick darkness" ONE "day of the LORD" "day, or, night" indistinguishable, Exodus 12:12x14; 13:21,22. 248

"In THAT DAY... I came forth out of Egypt … THIS IS THAT NIGHT to be solemnly observed”. 13:8,41,42. The LXX even uses “night” in verse 41 for “the selfsame day”. “It came to pass in the selfsame day…” of first “night”, then “day” “…that the LORD did bring the children of Israel OUT. Exodus 12:51. There is only one explanation for the fact Israel had to “EAT the FLESH (of the passover sacrifice) in that night—[of] the FOURTEENTH day of the month—and that which remained in the morning—[of] the FOURTEENTH day of the month— had to burn with fire” 12:6,8,10. The explanation is obvious: In Egypt days were from sunrise to sunrise. But when Israel had entered into the land God had sworn to them, God’s way for ‘observing’ days was adopted and days became sunset days. Now the passover was killed and leaven was removed on the fourteenth in its day-time; and the lamb was roasted and eaten after sunset in the night of the fifteenth day of the First Month. “In the night in which our Lord was betrayed”—the night of the fourteenth—He told his disciples to “PREPARE, so that I might eat the passover”. Now as Fisherman said, And He Himself, ATE the Passover of Yahweh by “SUFFERING the pascha” : ‘pascha’ = ‘to SUFFER’. Jesus WAS the Passover of Yahweh BY AND IN ACT-OF- SUFFERING for the sins of many. It never is written in the Indicative that Jesus ‘ate the passover’; because He WAS it and He ATE it by HIS, SUFFERING of, it. Christ was the Bread which the disciples ate; He was the Passover Himself which laid down his own life by the very same power with which He would take up his life again “the third day”.

Voice: 249

So much for 'As Jonah was.... 3 days and 3 nights..." Jesus did rest on the Sabbath, even in death, but He did not rest in the grave for just a little over 24 hours. 3 days, 3 nights. . GE: At last some sensible reading! Jesus did rest … even in death. But God “loosed the pains of death”—that is, God stopped Jesus’ conscious experiencing and feeling of the suffering of death the painful wages of sin, with death: with death as Jesus “gave the ghost … the ninth hour”. Then Jesus had entered into his ‘rest’ or ‘sleep’ in death. Twenty four hours later on the next day the same hour of the day “mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing”, Joseph had closed the stone on Jesus’ grave and sleep in the ‘rest’ of his grave where He ‘slept in rest’ another 24 hours while God Himself kept vigil over his body so that his “flesh saw no corruption in death” until He would RISE FROM THE DEAD “IN THE SABBATH’S FULNESS OF FULFILMENT IN HIM, and “God all his works finishing: RESTED” in Jesus’ Resurrection from the grave and from the dead and the state of the dead and “entered into his own rest AS GOD IN HIS OWN” --- having been “in the HEART, of the earth, three days and three nights” OF “THE PLAGUE THAT WAS UPON HIM”—the plague of the Passover of Yahweh “the WHOLE-DAY-BONE-DAY-OF-PASCHA- SUFFERING OF THE DEATH OF DEATH IN THE DEATH OF CHRIST. Christ’s Resurrection was his ultimate Rest. Christ’s Burial was his pen-ultimate rest in the sweet sleep of The Righteous. Christ’s Death was his initial entering into his Glory in Victory. Christ’s bodily suffering was Christ in triumphant suffering under the hand of wicked men and the power of darkness; 250

Christ’s anxiety in spirit even unto death “IN THIS THAT NIGHT” IN THE OLIVE PRESS IN THE VALLEY OF BLOOD, was conquering life wrested from the grip of satan in the “smoky darkness of yellowish and orange fire of Jasper and bright blue flames of Sapphire under the foundations of the mountains in the depths of hell.

Conclusion:

Rule One… <>

What is wrong with ‘Rule One’… It is no more than an assumption --- and a wrong assumption at that ---, that ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’, is <>, <>. In actual fact all the above supplied incidences, are each, cases of the grammatical use of the NOUN: ‘etsem’ as an Adjective— without exception. And ‘Rule One’ as here quoted minutely, will illustrate and confirm… 251

So, How will the actual incidences illustrate and prove that ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’, is a Noun used as Adjectival-Noun in the Nomenclatural Phrase, ‘etsem-yom’? . Rule Two … <<…one way would be to show it with the conjunction before it as conjunctions can introduce nouns>>. Bingo! Incidences, examples, exhibits of <> … Genesis 7:11…13, ~ba-yom-ha-dzeh…b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ “on-this-day…in-the bone-the-day-this(-very-day)”, and ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’, being the Preposition “IN(-the)-bone … on- the-same-day” ---<>. Genesis 17:23,26, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ “in-bone-the- day-this”, and ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’, being the Preposition “…IN(-the)- bone”, viz., “the-day-the-same-IN-(the-)bone(-day)” ---<>. Now, note the similarity, indeed the uniformity in… Exodus 12:17, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ ---<>; Exodus 12:41, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ ---<>; Exodus 12:51, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ ---<>; Leviticus 23:21, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ ---<> of passover; Leviticus 23:28,29,30, ~b’-etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ ---<> And similarly… Leviticus 23:14, ~‘ad-etsem-ha-yom-ha-zeh~ and ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’, ‘ad’ - “until” ---<> of passover. 252

…thus… Exodus 12:8,12, ~ba-la-yil-hadzeh~ “this night” ---<> of ~b’etsem-ha-yom-hadzeh~ “this selfsame Bone- Day I have brought your armies out” verses 17,41,51— and ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’ being the Preposition “…IN(-the)-bone”, viz., “the- day-the-same-IN-(the)-bone(-day)”.

Re: <<>> So exactly because passover, Yom Kippur, the day of Abraham’s circumcision and the day Noah got on the ark, are, all, "bone days", I do not <> at all … and therefore do not have to <> the use of ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’—a Noun—, means an Adjectival Noun in the Nomenclatural phrase the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh specifically its “Day-of-Burial-the-Whole-Day- BONE-Day”. The objector is the one who has no ‘leg’—no SUBSTANCE— no BONE—no CERTAINTY, <>. And remember – every one and all of these <> have the construction and ‘etsem’ - ‘bone’ being the Article or and some Preposition like “in-the-” or “with-the-” or “until- the-” : “-bone”, viz., “the-day-of-substance / the-day-in-its- wholeness / the-central-day / the-day-filling-in in-between combining / holding together / containing in whole : BONE - ‘etsem’ : DAY - ‘yom’. It just happens to be written thus without exception --- as “BONE” - ‘etsem’ : “DAY” - ‘yom’ as the WHOLE day, “day and night” (Matthew 12:40 Jonas 1:17 Exodus 10:13,19 “all that day and all that night … THIS DEATH!”) 253

‘Etsem-yom’ - “Bone-day” occurring in wider context…

Genesis 50:20, ~ka-yom hadzeh~ “like(-the)-day-the-same(- day)” with regard to the “bones” of Joseph. his burial and grave (typical of Christ) ---<>.

Exodus 12:46, “And (no) bone of Him shall be broken” ---without saying “in that day”.

Exodus 24:10, “they saw God… and as sapphire and like the bone / substance (of) heaven for clearness (the grave)”, ~ha sappir ho-ch’-etsem~.

Exodus 12:42, ~h’-o-a-ha-la-yil-ha-dzeh-le-Yah-weh~- “it-is- the-night-this-to-Yahweh” without saying of the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh.

Compare Deuteronomy 32:48 and Joshua 5:11 and 4:13 — the “WHOLENESS” reached in the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh.

Summary: Because of all these specifics, what rabbi Rosends avers, <>, is mere opportunism. Which goes to show there are several or and other than the conjunctive, —viz., the Article, “the”; Pronouns, “this”, “that”; Prepositions, “in”, “on”, “at”; Adverbs “until”; and Adjectives, “same” / “very”, 254

—even Nouns, which, in <> or , <> or and , <> or and , <> like ‘etsem’ - “bone”— which Noun — as an Adjectival NOUN-prefix /-conjunctive, again / the noun after it, the word “day” in the or (or, simply, in the phrase) of the Nomenclature, ‘Etsem-Yom’—“Bone-Day”. If you can have a ‘Yom Kippur’, why not an ‘Etsem-Yom’? Why not an ‘Etsem-Yom-Kippur’ Leviticus 23:28,29,30? Why not an ‘Etsem-Yom-Pascha’?

Recapitulation

<<>>… It is not one word, <<<"hayom">>>; it is two words “the” - ‘ha’ and “day” - ‘yom’— <<(THE day)>.

<<>>…

‘hayom’ is “the day” in the form of ‘hayom’ - “the day”.

<<>> = <<>>

That is one case of and underlined by yourself. 255

<<>> = <<<וַנעהצהם prefix “and”, the only time) v'etzem) – the bone not being broken in the sacrifice (prefix “and”, the only time) “the-‘etsem’”>>>

This is case two of > or <>— it is the same principle of you said occurred < once>, but has occurred twice now. For all I know there probably will be more such cases of <> the meaning of a Preposition or Article or a Conjunctive, directly before <<>>, either <> or in Joshua or in Ezekiel. Who would know? The witness of two witnesses must be accepted according to the books of Moses.

O yes; and then there of course is the ‘usual’ usage like in <<>> “on-the-Bone-THE בַנעהצהםהה תיום הה תזהה Day-the-THIS(-day)” …which makes it seem to me there is NO instance of <<>> WITHOUT immediately attached in front of it! <<>>

<<>>…

WHAT IS <>? It ALWAYS is the Passover of Yahweh!

<<>> 256

No one has denied it. But what is your which <>? <<>> . It is the Noun which <>! : ‘etsem’, is the Noun which <>. - ‘etsem’, is the Noun which only is the Part-of-speech that takes a attached before it like no Adjective does!

Saying, <<>>, is saying there is, . Saying, <<>>, is hopeless illogic. The , ‘b’etsem-yom’ has a word—‘etsem’, a Noun, which refers to "bone"-meaning-"bone”, , and in the context of the full , ‘b’etsem yom’, means, “on the day-essential of” / “on the specific day of” the passover, namely “on The Bone-Day of” the passover.

Then you people moan about my, English! You don’t know the first principle of language in any language.

‘Etsem’ is Noun used as an Adjective in the <>, ‘b’etsem yom’, which in the context of the passover, means “on the Bone-Day (of the passover)”. 257

‘Etsem’ is NOT an Adjective used as a Noun in the <>, ‘b’etsem yom’ meaning no ‘day’, but who knows what nonsensical non-existent <>.

Who does not know it? Who argues about it?

<<>>. It may; it may not, and take the precise same <>— that Noun being “day” – ‘yom’. It does not HAVE to <>. Fact is that in the context of the passover and other ‘days-like- burial-days’, the <> EXCLUSIVELY is the wherein the Noun ‘etsem’ is followed by the noun ‘yom’ - “day” directly and in some exceptional cases farther away, e.g., in Genesis 50.

Final finding: This is the crux—nay, the crater, the vacuum, the self- sucking-in into oblivion FLAW, of the learned and with most decorated Jewish rabbis not the worst ignorant Christian have landed in, THIS: <<<…unless you can show the grammatical use of the as a noun (one way would be to show it with the עהצהם adjective conjunction before it as conjunctions can introduce nouns) 258 and explain why the use of it an adjective means a noun, you have no legs (not one, not two and certainly not three) to stand on.>>> … THIS: Rosends: <<>>

26 01 15 http://www.edenics.org/explore/articles/the-bones-of-the-day/ The Bones of the Day You may ask, what does Passover have to do with China or the Chinese language? I know that you are a Root & Branch reader, so you are used to thinking globally and spiritually. Pay attention! Perhaps the most difficult passage in the entire Passover story of Scripture occurs in Exodus 12:17. Here, the Israelites, that tiny band of universal metaphors, are set to leave their oppressive site of slavery and degradation “b’eZTeM haYom haZeH”, in — literally translated — “the BONE of the day”. The word “eTZeM” means bone, from the first time that Adam uses the word in Genesis 2:23, and this Edenic term is the ultimate source for OSTEOMA (the bone tissue tumor) or the Greek bone, OSTEON. Most bible translations have a bone to pick with this difficult term, so they simply render it “on that selfsame day” or “very day” — either way their translations are absurd. Biblical scholars try gymnastics to compare the word to related terms that do mean “itself” (ATZMo) or OMeTZ, “strength.” [bold GE] They sorely need a prooftext in an actual language before they could understand this term, and other long ossified Semitic languages, like Akkadian, are no help. To the rescue comes the venerable language of Chinese, Earth’s number one spoken language, which replaced some 259 consonants with rising and falling accents but otherwise changed little since it was refracted from the Edenic gem at Babel and spread with the most prolific son of Japeth. Chinese, like Biblical Hebrew, has large two-letter roots whose meanings form a theme when noting the many three- letter roots or like-sounding words that poured forth from the same source over the millennia. The Chinese root “zhong,” a reasonable match for the Tzadik- Mem Hebrew bone of contention above, has several relevant meanings. Among these are Middle Finger, Backbone, Center, Core, Noon and Midday. Yes, there is nothing wrong with translating Exodus 12:17 as “the bone of the day”, once we have the Chinese to teach us that the “bone” (eTZeM) is the middle and strong core (oMeTZ). Now we can understand that the Israelite slaves were meant to leave in the backbone or middle of the day. This high drama was set for high noon, lest someone think the slaves sneaked out on their own at dawn or twilight. This historic highlight was well lit for all the world to see, for all time. (This short essay was originally published by the Root & Branch Association’s information service, headquartered in Jerusalem, Israel. Check ‘em out at http://www.rb.co.il)

To close with, I repeat … This is the crux—nay, the crater, the vacuum, the self- sucking-in into oblivion FLAW, of the learned and with most decorated Jewish rabbis not the worst ignorant Christian have landed in, THIS: <<<…unless you can show the grammatical use of the as a noun (one way would be to show it with the עהצהם adjective conjunction before it as conjunctions can introduce nouns) and explain why the use of it an adjective means a noun, you have no legs (not one, not two and certainly not three) to stand on.>>> … THIS: Rosends: <<>>

GE: Is there a, ‘Bone-Day’ in the Holy Scriptures of Christiandom? John Gill commentary on John 19:36 Our Library Commentaries John Gill's Exposition of the Bible John John 19 36 For these things were done The not breaking his bones and piercing his side, and that not by chance, and without design; but, that the Scripture should be fulfilled, a bone of him shall not be broken; referring either to ( Psalms 34:20 ) he keepeth all his bones, not one of them is broken; which if to be understood of the righteous in general, had a very particular and remarkable accomplishment in Christ; though a certain single person seems to be designed; nor is it true in fact of every righteous man, some of whom have had their bones broken; and such a sense would lead to despair in case of broken bones; for whereas such a calamity befalls them, as well as wicked men, under such an affliction, they might be greatly distressed, and from hence be ready to conclude, that they are not righteous persons, and are not under the care and protection of God, or otherwise this promise would be made good: nor have the words any respect to the resurrection of the dead, as if the sense of it was, that none of the bones of the righteous shall be finally broken; and though they may be broken by men, and in their sight, yet the Lord will raise them again, and restore them whole and perfect at the general resurrection; for this will be true of the wicked, as well as of the righteous: and much less is the meaning of the words, one of his bones shall not be broken, namely, the bone "luz", the Jews speak of; which, they say F9, remains uncorrupted in the grave, and is so hard that it cannot be softened by water, nor burnt in the fire, nor ground in the mill, 261 nor broke with an hammer; by and from which God will raise the whole body at the last day: but the words are to be understood of Christ, he is the poor man that is particularly pointed at in (Psalms 34:6 ) who, was poor in his state of humiliation, and who cried unto the Lord, and he heard him, and saved him; and he is the righteous one, whose afflictions were many, and out of which the Lord delivered him, ( Psalms 34:19 ) whose providential care of him was very particular and remarkable; he kept his bones from being broken, when others were; and by this incident this passage had its literal fulfilment in him: or else it may refer to the passover lamb, a type of Christ, (1 Corinthians 5:7 ) a bone of which was not to be broken, ( Exodus 12:46 ) ( Numbers 9:12 ) . The former of these passages is a command, in the second person, to the Israelites, concerning the paschal lamb, "neither shall ye break a bone thereof"; and the latter is delivered in the third person, "nor shall they break any bone of it"; which may be rendered impersonally, "a bone of it, or of him, shall not be broken; or a bone shall not be broken in him"; and so the Syriac and Persic versions read the words here; and in some copies it is, "a bone shall not be broken from him"; and so read the Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions; and he that violated this precept, according to the traditions of the Jews, was to be beaten. Maimonides F11 says, ``he that breaks a bone in a pure passover, lo, he is to be beaten, as it is said, "and a bone ye shall not break in it": and so it is said of the second passover, "and a bone ye shall not break in it"; but a passover which comes with uncleanness, if a man breaks a bone in it, he is not to be beaten: from the literal sense it may be learned, that a bone is not to be broken, whether in a pure or defiled passover: one that breaks a bone on the night of the fifteenth, or that breaks a bone in it within the day, or that breaks one after many days, lo, he is to be beaten; wherefore they burn the bones of the passover in general, with what is left of its flesh, that they may not come 262 to damage: none are guilty but for the breaking of a bone on which there is flesh of the quantity of an olive, or in which there is marrow; but a bone in which there is no marrow, and on which there is no flesh of the quantity of an olive, a man is not guilty for breaking it; and if there is flesh upon it of such a quantity, and he breaks the bone in the place where there is no flesh, he is guilty, although the place which he breaks is quite bare of its flesh: he that breaks after (another) has broken, is to be beaten.'' And with these rules agree the following canons F12, ``the bones and sinews, and what is left, they burn on the sixteenth day, but if that falls on the sabbath, they burn them on the seventeenth, because these do not drive away the sabbath or a feast day.'' And so it fell out this year in which Christ suffered, for the sixteenth was the sabbath day: again, ``he that breaks a bone in a pure passover, lo, he is to be beaten with forty stripes; but he that leaves anything in a pure one, and breaks in an impure one, is not to be beaten with forty stripes;'' yea, they say F13, though ``it was a little kid and tender, and whose bones are tender, they may not eat them; for this is breaking of the bone, and if he eats he is to be beaten, for it is the same thing whether a hard or a tender bone be broken.'' Now in this as in many other respects the paschal lamb was a type of Christ, whose bones were none of them to be broken, to show that his life was not taken away by men, but was laid down freely by himself; and also the unbroken strength of Christ under the weight of sin, the curse of the law, and wrath of God, and conflict with Satan, when he obtained eternal redemption for us: and also this was on account of his resurrection from the dead, which was to be in a few days; though had his bones been broken he could easily have restored them, but it was the will of God it should be otherwise. Moreover, as none of the bones of his natural body 263 were to be broken, so none that are members of him in a spiritual sense, who are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, shall ever be lost. F9 Bereshit Rabba, sect. 28. fol. 23. 3. Vajikra Rabba, sect. 18. fol. 159. 3. Zohar in Gen. fol. 51. 1. & 82. 1. F11 Hilchot Korban Pesach. c. 10. sect. 1, 2, 3, 4. F12 Misn. Pesachim, c. 7. sect. 10, 11. F13 Maimon. Korban Pesach. c. 10. sect. 9.

Mitch: What is it with you and this obsession with bone day?

GE: You are obsessed with knowing your ignorance. I have the answer; you do not have one. I have peace in this knowledge; you are plagued with unrest in your lack of this knowledge --- my dear man. You do not know what you are missing. That's a pity.

OR: Why not post all that Gill wrote. It certainly makes more sense than the excerpt:

GE: Thanks, Ol' Regular. You will agree many more expositors will tell you the same. But never say or ask more than what they say. Specifically, Don't even think about THE DAY of this prophetic fulfillment. For 2300 years the question has never been asked— where do you [that's me] come from to think you have the answer?! THE BEST rebuttal I have received so far has been : <> But I don't fear these mighty men of learning and integrity; not in their hordes do I fear any men! Because it was in closest nexus of his Suffering of the 264

Passover of Yahweh, that Jesus Christ EVERY MOMENT STEP BY STEP "ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES" FULFILLED HIS "Bone-Day" : "THIS THAT VERY BONE- DAY WHOLE-DAY" 1) of his suffering in dying the death of death; 2) of his “passover” / “Gilgal” - “Roll-over” under the CLOUD of God’s PRESENCE in death’s sleep of peace and rest; 3) of his TRIUMPH “RAISED BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER”. This is Jesus’ “Bone-Day”; this is what is denied with mocking and ridicule. This is the irrefutable TRUTH of the core reality of the Gospel of Jesus Christ “the SIGN of the prophet(s)”— the Suffering Servant of the Lord in Triumphal Procession from the Table to the Tabernacle of his Tomb “and His Name when being RESTED UP AGAIN: The Most Holy Place”. Isaiah 57:15.

Walter: So, I'm guessing that your point is that Christ's sacrifice would have taken place on a different day (Thursday?) rather than what Christians have been observing (Good Friday) for 2,000 years? What you call 'Bone-Day'? The Passover lamb was to be a "male without defect," which is the same description given to Jesus. In addition, when the lamb was roasted and eaten, none of its bones were to be broken. But, what I have gathered from reading the articles on your website is that you don't believe Christ died on Friday and that you assemble on Saturday (Sabbath) to observe the Lord's Supper (paschal feast)? I'm asking because I am having trouble following the articles. However, in one of your articles the discussion that followed centered around Acts 2:42 'They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer'. In the discussion I noticed nobody questioned that the 'breaking of 265 bread' was the Lord's Supper but the debate was over 'when' this should occur. I'm asking because I don't want to misrepresent your position.

Tony: I just did a Google search for "Bone-Day" and "Bone-Day Christianity" and the only hits I got were from Gerhard posting on this forum and on another forum in June of 2014. Neither place posits any real scripture detailing this "bone- day" nor what it means for us.

GE: I shall do my best to go slow. Therefore let us begin at the beginning ... IN THE SCRIPTURES!

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Genesis …

Genesis 7 “11 In THE SAME DAY [HADZEH YOM] all the fountains of the great deep were broken up … 13 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] entered Noah … into the ark.” “…in the selfsame whole day bone day… [etsem yom] …as when in the days of Noah an ark was being prepared the longsuffering of God waited wherein souls through watery [grave] were saved … by the Resurrection of Christ… For Christ has once suffered for [our] sins that He might bring us to God, He being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit.” 1Peter 3:20,21,18.

Genesis 17 “23 Abraham circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] as God 266 had said unto him …7 I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy Seed [Christ]… 26 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] (stricken in age) Abraham was circumcised… And the LORD appeared unto him… pass not away from thy servant… wash your feet and rest yourself under the tree… Abraham fetched a calf… a young man hasted to dress it… And [the LORD] stood by them and they did eat. And [the LORD] said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and lo, (waxed old) Sarah thy wife shall have a son… at the appointed time I shall return.”

Genesis 50 “20 God meant to bring to pass as it is THIS DAY to save much people alive. 21 Now fear ye not : I will nourish you and your little ones. And he comforted them and spake kindly to them. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I DIE : and God will surely visit you and bring you out of this land unto the land which He sware unto Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up from hence my BONES—26 SO JOSEPH DIED being an hundred and ten years old : and [having been buried in a grave] they embalmed him, and he was PUT IN A COFFIN in Egypt…”

The Book of Genesis ended with Joseph’s burial day and future care of his bones—fulfilled in the Book of Exodus.

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Exodus …

Exodus 12 “17 Ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread for in THIS SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore 267 shall ye observe THIS DAY… by an ordinance for ever

18 in the fourteenth day of the (First) Month (6 Israel shall kill the passover)... strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood and none of you shall go out of his house… 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite [with the plague] the Egyptians… The LORD will pass over and will not suffer the destroyer to come unto your houses to smite you.”

Exodus 12 “41 Even THIS SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] it came to pass that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt— 42 it is a NIGHT to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt : THIS IS THAT NIGHT of the LORD… 43 THIS IS THE ORDINANCE OF THE PASSOVER… 46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye BREAK / SEVER A BONE thereof.

8 they shall EAT the flesh in THAT NIGHT roast with FIRE… not raw nor cooked with water but roast with FIRE; head with legs and with the purtenance thereof… 10 and that which remain the next day ye shall BURN WITH FIRE … 12 I will pass through THIS NIGHT … the PLAGUE shall not be upon you.”

Exodus 12 “51 It came to pass THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out… 13 God led the people about through the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea… and Moses took the BONES of Joseph with 268 him for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my BONES away hence with you.”

The Book of Genesis ended with Joseph’s burial day and future care of his bones—fulfilled in the Book of Exodus.

Now Exodus ends with an apocalyptic vision of Christ’s bones and day of burial… Exodus 24: 10 They saw the God of Israel: and under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone [having been] THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] as it were the body of heaven in his clearness … Exodus 14:5,4 THIS DAY [of ‘etsem yom’] came ye out in the month Abib… by Strength of Hand the LORD brought you out from this place (of death) where no Bread of Life shall be eaten.

The Book of Genesis as fulfilled in the passover in Exodus is seen further expanded upon and added to in Leviticus …

Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences …in Leviticus …

Leviticus 23: “21 Ye shall proclaim on THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] … as ye shall REAP … the corners of thy field… 10 When ye shall reap … ye shall BRING a sheaf of the firstfruits unto the priest and on the day after the sabbath [it rested over] the priest shall wave the sheaf before the LORD to be accepted for you 14 …the very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day [ad hadzeh etsem yom] that ye have brought an offering [of the passover lamb]. 269

“14 The very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day” [ad hadzeh etsem yom] encompassed… “9 The LORD spake unto Moses… “5 In the fourteenth day is the LORD’S passover

First addition: “sabbath rest day” “6 and on the FIFTEENTH DAY of the month is the FEAST… “Seven days unleavened bread ye shall eat… “7 In the first day is holy convocation… “no servile work shall ye do. “10 In it (is) a sabbath rest day [of the first sheaf]…

Second addition: “first sheaf of firstfruits” “11 On the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it—the first sheaf.” “Three days thick darkness” encompassed “the very selfsame Whole Day Bone Day” [ad hadzeh etsem yom]” of the First Sheaf. The First Sheaf rested over in the darkness of death and grave “on the sabbath that day great day sabbath”, “the fifteenth day of the First Month” and “sabbath in between” of the passover, the day between “the fourteenth day the very Bone-Day that ye brought an offering (of sacrifice) and reaped and brought your sheaf, and “the day after the sabbath” when “the Priest wave(d) the First Sheaf”— “on the sixteenth day of the First Month (when) they finished to cleanse the sanctuary”.

Third addition: “fifty days” “From… the day after the sabbath”—“the sabbath day” after “the selfsame bone-day” that the first sheaf was “reaped from the corners of thy field” and was “brought to the priest” to rest over “the sabbath day” before it would be “wave(d) on the day after the sabbath” … “from the day after the sabbath begin 270 count” FIFTY DAYS to Shavuot / Pentecost! “The LORD spake to Moses… 11 On the day after the sabbath the Priest shall wave the First Sheaf”— “on the sixteenth day of the First Month they finished to cleanse the sanctuary.” “15 Ye shall count from the day…” on which the LORD vanquished the darkness of the plague. The LORD of the “three days thick darkness” of the plague, “on the third day”, “finished”. “From the day after the (passover) sabbath, begin count!” It does not say begin count after the day after the sabbath; and it does not say begin count from the sabbath. The LORD commanded “count from / with / on the day after the sabbath.”

Fourth addition ‘Yom Kippur’ to “THIS THAT VERY SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom]” : Yom Kippur Day of Atonement Day of Judgment—mid-year’s Little Passover. “46 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths [for forty years after the passover of Yahweh] when I brought them out of the land of Egypt”… “27 …on the tenth day of the Seventh Month “28 …ye shall do no work in “THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] “29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be AFFLICTED IN THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom], he shall be cut off from among his people “30 and whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in THAT SAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom], the same soul I will destroy.” “THREE DAYS thick darkness” which in Exodus coincided on and converged in and merged with “THIS THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom]”, “great day sabbath” of the passover of Yahweh and the 271

“goings out” of Israel out of Egypt, in Leviticus coincided on and converged in and merged with “this the…” three times: “selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” on the one day and “shabbath shabbathon … Day of Affliction and Atonement”, of Yahweh who dwells “among his People”, the children of iasrael who now “tabernacled”, “in, the land the LORD had sworn”— so “that your generations may know that I-AM-THE-LORD your God and that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths WHEN I BROUGHT THEM OUT of the land of Egypt.” Noteworthy is it that the fifteenth day of the First Month and the tenth day of the Seventh Month were both on the Sixth Day of the week, and that in both feasts “the day after the sabbath” of the feast, was “the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”. In neither case “the day after the sabbath” of the feast, was on the First Day of the week. Therefore, by counting the single-day pertaining to the tenth day of the Seventh Month thrice called “the selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” as incidences relating to the matter at hand, the Passover of Yahweh which was the first and main and original feast of Israel and the LORD of Israel from which all subsequent feasts evolved, the number of incidences of the use of the phrase ‘etsem yom’ applicable to the passover, stands at 9 out of 12, or, 75%. But taking into account the 3, 4, proleptic, anticipating and prospective instances of ‘etsem yom’ in Genesis 7, 17 and 50, the number of incidence of its use for “the selfsame whole day BONE DAY [etsem yom]” of the PASSOVER, is 12, 13 out of 12, 13 or 100%. Nevertheless it , and, and that .

So; let us go on … 272

Later and Institutionalised instances of the use of ‘etsem yom’ …in Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua …

…in Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua …

Numbers… The words “bone” – ‘etsem’ and “day” – ‘yom’ do not occur in a closed phrase in Numbers. The most significant incidence in chapter 9:12 (Exodus 12:46) of ‘etsem’, “break / sever no bone of it” (John 19:36), bears upon a fourteenth day of the First Month though, postponed to the fourteenth day of the Second Month, but nevertheless “(kept) according to ALL the ordinances of the passover … on THAT DAY…”, “…THE DAY THAT the tabernacle (‘mishkan’ - place / rest-bed) —the tent (‘ohel’ - ‘covering’) —, was reared over the ark (‘aron’ - “coffin”) of the testimony.” 9:9,12; 7:89. “Thou broughtest up this people IN THY MIGHT from among the Egyptians!” It was “the Whole-Day the Selfsame BONE- DAY” of the passover, that the tabernacle was first reared over the mercy seat over the ark of the testimony and the Cloud of the Presence of the LORD was upon and “as the appearance of FIRE” covered withal, verse 15. Numbers 9 contains an absolute incidence of the Bone-Day of the passover, therefore. And so we have 14 out of 14 incidences of “Bone-Day” being the passover’s day of the Dead being Buried—100%! In Numbers 19 there is the clear connection with the word ‘etsem’ - “BONE… One SLAIN…”, and “GRAVE”, verse 18. In Numbers 24:8, “God brought Israel forth out of Egypt… He shall break the BONES of his enemies and PIERCE them through with his arrows.” “Bones” and passover are together once again, even the day that they pierced the side of Jesus but broke no bone of his! 273

Virtually every incidence of ‘etsem’ - “bone”, and the dark day(s) of Israel when the LORD brought them out of Egypt, are of the essence, so much so that the final days in which Israel passed over out of the wilderness into the land the LORD had sworn to bring them into, are identical in Deuteronomy 32:48 and Joshua 5:11. “The LORD spake unto Moses THE SELFSAME BONE- DAY (#15), saying, Get thee up into this mountain… and behold the land of Canaan… and DIE in the mount and be gathered unto thy people [that is, be BURIED]… So Moses died there and the LORD BURIED HIM. “The LORD spake unto Joshua, My servant. Moses, is DEAD. Now therefore arise, GO OVER this Jordan… Then Joshua commanded… PREPARE, for WITHIN THREE DAYS ye shall pass over this Jordan to GO IN to POSSESS the land… On THAT DAY, the LORD magnified Joshua… the Selfsame BONE-DAY (#16) (they) did eat unleavened cakes”. Joshua 5:11,12. The people came up out of Jordan on the TENTH day of the First Month… and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the (First) Month… and in the selfsame BONE-DAY on the day after the passover did eat unleavened cakes.” Now the prophet Ezekiel calls “the tenth day of the First Month”, “the SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE-DAY”— “In the beginning of the year in the tenth day of the (First) Month… in the SELFSAME BONE-DAY (#17) the hand of the LORD was upon me.” Ezekiel 40:1. The passover therefore had four days which were “BONE- DAY”, but most important was “the fourteenth day” as seen in the examples above. And in Joshua “after the passover on the fourteenth day of the (First) Month, the fifteenth day of the First Month—without saying—, was “the Selfsame BONE- DAY (they) did eat unleavened cakes”. Joshua 5:11,12. So all “three days thick darkness” of the ninth and tenth 274 plagues, plus “the tenth day of the First Month”, were “the Selfsame BONE-DAY” : BECAUSE OF BEING DAYS OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH—17 out of 17 times. So far in the Pentateuch all occurrences of the Hebrew phrase, ‘etsem-yom’—“Bone-Day”, were PASSOVER BURIAL DAY occurrences. Yet the learned say it does not exist. It does not exist?! It exists! It exists, 100% as the BURIAL-DAY of the passover of Yahweh, the fourteenth and fifteenth day(s) of the First Month most pertinently.

... and Jesus Christ never had anything to do with any of all this; and all this never had anything to do with Jesus Christ ... if we must believe those who say there is no such thing as Jesus' Bone-Day.

Tony: You keep saying that this phrase is there, yet you haven't really explained what it is supposed to mean and how it is supposed to be relevant to us today. On the other web forum where you posted this, you made a fairly grand statement that rediscovering the Hebrew text will open up new understanding of the scripture: QuoteGE:It's back to basics - back to the Hebrew for the first time in history. That will put you on the way to the future, because the translation of the Gospel will NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN FOR YOU after you have grasped the meaning of Jesus' Bone Day YOURSELF.QE No offense intended, but that statement seems to carry some sort of mysticism, almost like a Bible Code type intention. I'm pretty sure people have been going back to the Hebrew for a long time. This isn't the first time in history anyone has looked at the Hebrew text. And you say the translation of the gospel will never be the same once you understand the meaning of Jesus's Bone Day. 275

Yet you haven't explained it. You've merely shown it's occurrences in the Old Testament.

GE: You touched upon many aspects. It cannot all be explained in one short sentence or paragraph or even book. But before anything else, not for the first time in this very short discussion, come on, be honest and live up to Christian principle of trust and objectivity, and kindly let it be the last time that I must react to this kind of thing, <<<…that statement seems to carry some sort of mysticism, almost like a Bible Code type intention.>>> I HAD NO IDEA that anything like the “Bone-Day” of the Passover of Yahweh existed or lurked somewhere hidden in the Scriptures. Not the faintest suspicion! Now for the shock: while all along it was lying open and dry on the surface like the bones in Ezekiel’s vision, WAITING for the Voice of God to come together and resurrect with sinews and flesh and body visible and real. The “SUBSTANCE” of the “Bone-Day” is there in the Scriptures very much alive. What I have above quoted FROM THE WORD OF GOD, is what it IS: solidly is proving, namely, proving ITSELF! Jesus’ Bone-Day is none of my or anyone in history’s dreams, wishes or imagination or arrogation. It is most substantial essence of God’s Truth you will find in the SCRIPTURES CONCERNING THE CHRIST HOW HE OUGHT TO SUFFER AND RESURRECT for the salvation of you and me! Take Jesus’ Bone-Day out of the Old Testament, and remove the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the Old and, New Testaments. Which tells you it HAS BEEN OF THE ESSENCE OF THE GOSPEL in the Scriptures all along and despite its mysterious hiddenness ever since the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. 276

When I was a youngster, I knew of two Violin Concertos of Nicolo Paganini. In the ‘World of Music’ published in 1957, these two concertos are listed. I still have one of—if not the— best ever performances of those two concertos (by Rigiero Rici). Even he had no idea four more concertos of Paganini lay hidden in obscurity waiting to be discovered. Was it some dreamer or mystic who exposed their existence? No, it was a sober detective so to speak. A detective is a person who picks up ‘leads’ and ‘traces’ like a bloodhound, smell. But he has to be awake, that bloodhound. Or he has to be AWAKENED. He must be awakened to a peculiar smell by that smell HELD TO HIS NOSE, to follow it to its SOURCE. So then, credit to the TRANSLATORS of the Scriptures who put me on the trail after the BONE of the “Bone-Day” of Jesus Christ “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God” in type “killed on the fourteenth day of the First Month”, returned to dust “the following day…on the fifteenth”, and “carried through” the Red Sea “into the Land the LORD sware to give” Him --- “the Kingdom of his dear Son”. That was how you and I, received entrance into the Kingdom of God—through Jesus of Nazareth on Bone-Day in his grave “HEWN IN ROCK” in the “Bone-Day” of his Burial. You know of another way? Of some trick to fool God with and bypass Jesus’ GRAVE “on Bone-Day”? You know of some ecstasy, some dope or potion to offer Him on a reed to intoxicate his senses and we under the influence of the same ourselves, could slip in unawares? Well, I don’t.

Woody: Is this making any sense to anyone else?

Con: No 277

GE: Says who? He who does not understand, of course. And more probably has no desire to understand...

Con: I have no clue what you {GE}'re conveying, but I'm gonna put a "whoa there" on you with this post... GEQ... and Jesus Christ never had anything to do with any of all this; and all this never had anything to do with Jesus Christ ... if we must believe those who say there is no such thing as Jesus' Bone-Day.QE Jesus stated, Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me; All scripture, Old and New Testament, has to do with Christ and Christ has to do with it. This bible we cherish is Jesus' autobiography penned by holy men of God who wrote it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit....every word of it, in some way, points to Christ...

Tony: ... you say the translation of the gospel will never be the same once you understand the meaning of Jesus's Bone Day. Yet you haven't explained it. You've merely shown it's occurrences in the Old Testament.

GE: The passover’s Bone-Day explains itself which was why <>!! The translation of the Gospel is what proves it never will be same again! EXACTLY! Here is some information for you which every Christian in the world has had in his possession for about a century long already. Anybody with help of the internet can test the truth of what I 278 am telling you now, for himself. You can prove it with only your own language, English! Notice the changes made in the TRANSLATION of the New Testament since the end of the nineteenth century and start of the twentieth century. Now those changes are more obvious if the ‘old’ English translations are compared with translations of other languages of the twentieth century. For example, the first African language the Bible was translated in, was ‘Tswana’, and the Translator was Moffat, an Englishman missionary. He translated the King James Version. He did not translate the Greek. Changes or differences between the KJV and Tswana were insignificant. Suddenly mid-twentieth century, changes became substantial and meaningful, and—above all—UNIVERSAL. The changes in the new English translation became very much the same than in Turkish for example. Or in Afrikaans, my tongue. Or in Dutch from which Afrikaans developed. And so in any language one can think of around the world. That proves all new translations came from an orchestrated and CENTRALIZED effort. In fact in those days the ‘dynamic equivalent method’ to translate the Bible started to get momentum. I was on the school benches then; had no desire to know about Bible translation then. The market for new translations got bullish again in the seventies and eighties. And I was a ‘middle aged’. Now I have seen the New International Version by that time while the new Afrikaans translation was prepared for publication. This translation was way back in the fifties actually made a beginning with. So I warned specifically pertaining Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57, that the New International Version’s PERVERSION should not be followed, and that “when the even was come”, should not be made “as evening approached”—NIV, or, “late noon”—the New Afrikaans 279

Translation of the fifties, ‘Die Blye Boodskap’! But what happened? The translators in reaction against their better knowledge and in agreement with the popular, universal trend, WENT AHEAD with copying the New International Version! ‘Die Bybel, Nuwe Afrikaanse Vertaling’ was published with Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 saying, “laat die middag”—‘late noon’ instead of “when evening had come”. What was or is the significance? The significance was that “ALL THIS…” WHICH WENT BEFORE “…happened the day before the Sabbath” (Living Bible), instead of all this which HAPPENED AFTER or which CAME AFTER Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50. What did or does it mean? It means that where Jesus’ crucifixion and death had happened before the evening had come, his burial now also had happened before the evening had come. It means that everything which would and which eventually did happen after sunset (—that Joseph obtained the body of Jesus and in the closing of “that day” closed the grave—), now happened while it was “late noon” and ”evening was approaching”. It means—AS THEY SAY—, that Jesus was ‘buried on Friday before sunset and the start of the Sabbath’. It means Jesus was crucified and died and was buried THE SELFSAME DAY—‘Friday’. So that the Church observes Good Friday, Still Saturday and Easter Sunday—‘Resurrection Sunday’. That is what you get when you CORRUPT the SCRIPTURES that say Jesus’ “WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY” of the Passover- of-Yahweh was “the following day ye shall burn with fire that which REMAINED” of the Sacrifice and return the body to the earth, and inter and bury Him. 280

Tony: I'm pretty sure people have been going back to the Hebrew for a long time. This isn't the first time in history anyone has looked at the Hebrew text. .... you haven't explained it. You've merely shown it's occurrences in the Old Testament.

GE: <<<...sure people have been going back to the Hebrew for a long time.>>> And when they could not make progress, they resorted to the Greek of the 70 JEWS --- who also were clueless and at a loss to the TRUE meaning of the Hebrew. Moses needed Christ to be understood; those Jews were clueless about Jesus Christ as well. Ezekiel's bones in the valley of bones ... Was it you who wrote <>? No? Well I'm you were in agreement with ... However, I can assure you this is, <> from the perspective of the Bone-Day itself!

Tony: GEQ However, I can assure you this is, <> from the perspective of the Bone-Day itself!QE I bolded a statement of yours above, because I'm curious. Just as a side bar, who exactly are the 70 Jews you are referencing here?

GE: 281

The ('famous') ‘seventy (‘LXX’) men’ referred to by one Aristeas who called himself a ‘writer’ in a [fictitious?] letter, who in 72 days finished to translate “the Jewish Law” [which description for the OT Scriptures I doubt they would have used]. Anyway the LXX were actually 72— six ‘Jews’ out of each tribe of the children of Israel. Usually the ‘LXX’ or ‘Septuagint’ is claimed to be “the earliest version of the Old Testament Scriptures which is extant”. There are presumably a number of extant fragments of other copies of other translations by other translators who knows?

Tony: Okay, so just so that I'm clear on this: You, a native speaker of Afrikaans, have discovered something in the Hebrew text that not even 72 men who lived in the 3rd century BC and who actively spoke Hebrew alongside Koine Greek were able to determine? Seeing as biblical Hebrew was a relatively in-use language up until the Roman conquest of AD 70, then these men would've known what they were talking about.

GE: Correct; they did not know what they were talking about. There are several reasons for stating this. One. As you can see the story about the origin of the LXX is a bit of a fairy tale. Finished in 72 days? Without Google?! 70 gentlemen, six out of each of twelve tribes? Twelve tribes? By +-250 BC? Were there not by then 11 or just 1 tribe left? My history is bad. Were there 66 books comprising the Law of Moses? My maths is worse than my history. Nevertheless, states the foreword to my edition, "We have now to speak of the labours of Origen in connection with the text of the Septuagint. This learned and enterprising scholar, having acquired a knowledge of Hebrew, found that 282 in many respects the copies of the Septuagint differed from the Hebrew text. It seems to be uncertain whether he regarded such differences as having arisen from mistakes on the part of copyists, or from errors of the ORIGINAL TRANSLATORS THEMSELVES." [emphasis GE] I think that will be enough for now. Anyhow there is more. But you know what puzzles me most? The fact the LXX translates the Hebrew Relative Pronouns which are used in conjunction with the Adverbial ‘etsem yom’, literally correct, with “THAT day” - ‘EKEINEH hehmera’ [[I’ll, DV., shall show you that later.]] But they literally REFRAIN from translating or trying to translate the ‘etsem yom’ ‘etsem’ and ‘yom’ - “bone and “day”, IN ANY WAY. That means much more than meets the eye. That means exactly what does not meet the eye, so that exactly what the 70 thought they had COVERED up, THEY THEMSELVES would in the last analysis (and ‘last times’) have EXPOSED— which was, that they DID NOT KNOW what the , ‘etsem yom’, mean! Therefore do not say I say I discovered the Bone-Day. Here you see who discovered it. THE TRANSLATORS! The identical thing which happened with me and the TRANSLATION FRAUD that went on with “THE SELFSAME WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY of Our Passover in the Gospels. If somebody must be blamed for it, blame the translators. If someone might be thanked for it, you must rather thank God and his Providence than me.

Tony: Well, the trick is you are basing this theory off a Hebrew construct, "etsem yom," that simply does not occur in the Hebrew, unless you begin disassociating the individual Hebrew. There are occurrences of "hayom" and occurrences of 283

"b'etsem", sometimes in close conjunction, but never as simply "etsem yom," as you are arguing. Didn't take much Google searching to find that one out.

. GE: Hehehehe parrot! You'd be a worse 'copyist' than those Origen had in mind. If you were a GOOD ‘copyist’ though, you would have had to COPY 18—that’s right, 18!—, REAL occurrences of the 'etsem-yom' --- to transliterate the phrase the way Dr Robert Young did in his ‘Analytical Concordance’. Or like Wigram transliterates it in his ‘Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament', <"geh'- tzem>-inseparable-continued-after-by- in closed sequence of context! I see those 'Jewish scholars' whom you are parroting here, have trained you well in their wayward ways. Maybe you are they! Surely thou art one of them for thy speech betrayeth thee. Ahhh! Therefore I shall wait and give you more rope to hang yourself with ---the very selfsame rope they, hanged themselves, with! So give us here on BB what they say next ---they at whose candle thou lit thine own mighty sun.

Tony: Sooooo...doing a search on Google means I'm now a "parrot?" Well, trying to have an actual debate and discussion over this just went out the window. Keep thinking you have discovered something no one else has ever seen in scriptures that men have been studying for thousands of years. I'm out.

GE: 284

Very graceful exit! Before you close the door behind you, just one thing that may give you some solace in your loneliness hereafter, Consider the simple truth the thing discovered has been something no one else has ever taken the pains to see in the HEBREW Scriptures and has been studied for thousands of years FROM THE GREEK LXX. Please man. Then leave in peace, please man.

. Mitch: Do you not see that he is a troll?

Tony: I see it, Rev. I don't mind playing with the trolls from time to time, because I find it interesting the things they can throw out. Like GE's obsession with this unfounded "bone-day" or SBM's obsession with misquoting and misappropriating the scripture in 2 Cor 4:3-4. Doesn't mean I'm buying into it.

GE: What glorious image of the Gospel of Christ and God is smiling upon me now. Ja.

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn All Sunday-Resurrectionists Refuted Wednesday and Friday Crossites Thrashed Shredded and Trashed Part Eight 27 01 15 [email protected] 285 http://www.biblestudents.co.za http://thelordsday.wordpress.com/books/