Flip Chart from the Bruce Sanguin Web-Workshop

“Flip Chart” from the Bruce Sanguin Web-workshop Session One – January 31 2012

St. Paul's Orillia: Hello everyone this is Karen Hilfman MIllson and a small group at St Paul's in Orillia.... so good to join all of you!

Barry King: How about playing a little Coldplay....lol margaret watson: margaret watson is here in Cumberland BC

Julianne Kasmer: I can't hear anything right now, is that ok? Julianne

Lynne Dimma: Barry, you don't like classical Spanish guitar?

Christine MacLeod: its mute here

Eileen: Eileen from Victoria BC here - I think every e-course I have been on has offered this same music :)

Julianne Kasmer: how do we get our sound back?

Barry King: sure just prefer some new stuff....top 10.....how about Paradise by Coldplay

Barry King: by the way I am hearing no music at this point

Eileen: I vote for new music too !

Sharon Buttrey: Hi Julianne - we're just testing audio settings, you won't hear any audio through the computer at the moment. Thanks!

Barry King: ok john lochead: John Lochead I am now on line.

Leslie Clark: hi all

Kevin Cox: Kevin Cox is online after returning from the skating oval in Halifax.

Julianne Kasmer: sounds like fun, Kevin - no skating here

David Forbes: Kevin you are making me homesick! kathryn: kathryn McIntosh here near Bathurst New Brunswick

Julianne Kasmer: ok should we close our window and reconnect ok great suzanne edgar: clear in Saskatchewan Leslie Clark: guess i shld have said i'm in Winnipeg!

Eileen: seems good here in Victoria margaret watson: margaret watson here I am again

Paul Rodey: Paul Rodey in Leamington Ont. on line

Kevin Cox: Kevin Cox is back in Halifax

Lynne Dimma: here again

Fort McMurray First United Church: we're here from fort mcmurray\

Barry King: Barry King back in again from Oakville Ontario...Glen Abbey United

John Lochead: John Lochead in Waterloo,Ontario

Barry King: now lets get some Coldplay tunes on here to warm us up

Julianne Kasmer: yup a-ok

Barry King: how about Paradise.....my fav

Julianne Kasmer: oh, yes, are we supposed to have sound on our computers now?

Karen Verveda: I'm here ... suzanne edgar: Suzanne from Saskatchewan is back!

Jennifer Witzel: Jennifer Witzel from Kitchener Ont

David Forbes: Dave Forbes back from Caledon Village ON

Joan Smith: Joan smith in south river - hi julianne

Joan Hawkes: Visions United is here. Joan Hawkes from Moncton

Leslie Clark: hey Joan Smith...where is south river? barbara Bitzer: Barbara Bitzer here again from Kitchener

Christine MacLeod: hi joan!

Joan Smith: Joan smith between north bay and huntsville ontario

Sharon Wood 2: Sharon Wood from Regina Leslie Clark: ahhhhh, ty Joan S! margaret watson: hi joan, remember me from knox parksville?

Brian Colbourne: Brian Colbourne, Carbonear NL

Julianne Kasmer: hi Joan - good to 'see' you I'm in Cumberland (comox valley ) now

Joan Smith: Joan smith - I do MArgaret hi! barbara Bitzer: Barbara Hi jennifer which church in Kitchener? margaret watson: good to connect joan!

Jennifer Witzel: Calvary Memorial< Kitchener suzanne edgar: Hi Sharon Wood in Regina; I'm in Indian Head henriette: Nice to see familiar names: Karen Verveda - don't know if you remember me - we took courses together at St Stephen's...

Christine MacLeod: Great turn out from all across Canada folks1

Karen Verveda: i do ... hi there!

Joan Hawkes: Are you here Pam?

Julianne Kasmer: can others hear Bruce? it is just garbled here

Julianne Kasmer: yes

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: clear here

Nancy Marshall: Nancy Marshall from Kitchener

Cindy Johnston: Cindy Johnston, Caledon ON

Julianne Kasmer: good

Leslie Clark: hey i can hear Bruce just fine

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: nice and clear

Cindy Johnston: good

Joan Hawkes: Great here in Moncton Brian Tucker: fine margaret watson: perfect!

Joan Smith: loud and clear

Eileen: good here

Christine MacLeod: One voice is clear but one is a little darth vadarish

John Lochead: OK

Jennifer Witzel: it's clear here

Lynne Dimma: clear in Atikokan

Christine MacLeod: it is Steve! NO poblem. henriette: i can hear you well - have no video images, though -perhaps we are not using those?

Christine MacLeod: that is very good suzanne edgar: SK - perfect

Barry King: I am clear hear for sound hearing you.....where is the mike on the computer suzanne edgar: no

Barry King: that was here by the way

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: Here from Trinity, Kitchener

Joan Smith: hi steve

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: echoey suddenly

Joan Smith: hi bruce

Pam Harrison: greeting to one and all.

Merry Shaver: are you on the phone as well?

Sharon Buttrey: Hi Merry - we'll be using the computer for plenary sessions, and the phone for breakout / small group sessions.

Julianne Kasmer: do we leave our phones on now?

Sharon Buttrey: Julianne - you can stay on the phone, but you won't hear any audio through it for now.

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: no sound through phone

Karen Verveda: me either

Sharon Buttrey: Thanks Jack - the phone won't have audio for right now.

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: ok

David Forbes: Got it

St. Paul's Orillia: we are getting a lot of freezing

Julianne Kasmer: yes

Karen Verveda: yep

Barry King: now you are working steve

John Lochead: OK suzanne edgar: I'm not hearing anything from the phone - now yes

Greg Wooley: loud and clear here in Calgary!

Christine MacLeod: I can hear you now but there is a delay on the computer

Sharon Buttrey: If you're hearing it twice, feel free to just listen through the computer or the phone, instead of through both phone and computer.

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: sound from two sources out of sync

St. Paul's Orillia: Sharon this is pausing fairly often

Sharon Buttrey: St. Paul's - there's often a lag over the computer when it's pulling through the audio and video. If it gets really bad, you can try logging out and back in again.

Jennifer Witzel: bruce doesn't seem to be on phone line.

Steve Fetter: that's true ... bruce is just on the room audio

Karen Verveda: i can't hear bruce either

Steve Fetter: sorry ... next week we'll be able to connect both together

Sharon Buttrey: Audio for Bruce is coming in only through the computer, not through the phone audio. You'll need to have your computer speakers on for the plenary sessions today. Steve Fetter: ======

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: need hope;vision

John Lochead: We all have similar if not identical problems

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: FreshExpression.ca

Julianne Kasmer: interesting conversation around regional church ideas, sharing resouces without losing identity\

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: feel sad about the bad news - not sure what to do

Paul Rodey: We've been talking about regional churches closing the old buildings that we have and walk into something more efficient on a level playing field

GSU Book Study Group: big problems are big opportunities shelleystickelmiles: I have a sadness about my generation not having an influence in the direction of the church worship steve: do we not believe in resurrection --- somebody said dont worry henriette: it is inspiring to hear the stories of churches who do well - we do share these at presbytery.

Linda Pike: we have to move from survival mode to hope

Brian Tucker: It's OK to say focus on transformation rather than numbers, but how do you measure transformation?

Karen Verveda: experimenting with 'regionalization' (Langley) ... steve: amen

Christine MacLeod: Our group spoke to the importance of living with purpose and enthusiam in our churches

David Forbes: as much as we want to change, we fear what change will bring

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: Called to be faithful, not seek "results"

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: when the numbers were so high ... was it because of social pressure?? d

Barry King: personally I am not overly worried as I believe we will just evolve into something profoundly different that will be even better than what we have known Fort McMurray First United Church 2: that people were forced to go and expected to go ... steve: we have to walk into something different because we have become experts at what we are doing now, and given davids numbers it does not seem to be working

Joan Hawkes: we have amalgamated 2 churches and are worshipping on Sat. at 4 p.m. in a Nazarene sanctuary. leaving both churches.

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: so maybe where we are now is a new shape of committed disciples... smaller but stronger suzanne edgar: The UCC is the church which proclaims grace, but now that people aren't afraid of hell, here has to be real community.

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: that’s also the case in slave lake

Paul Rodey: I was part of that congregation at Eden at one time 20 years ago.

Jennifer Witzel: our buildings may be what are holding us back

Barry King: in every dimensional way possible we will evolve into something radically different that many of us will not even recognize

Kevin Cox: Is it enough to be the church? steve: it certainly doesn’t attract people - fear

John Lochead: Resistance to change is a huge barrier.

Paul Rodey: The buildings are what I believe is holding us back. kathryn: our churchs suffer from an 'Edifice Complex'

Leslie Clark: i think we need to stop being afraid to spend money!

Gwen Nadeau: HOW DO YOUHELP PEOPLE GET EXCITED ABOUT THEIR FAITH/ margaret watson: Our doors are open for Saturday meditation. The community is responding. There is no emphasis on denomination we are focusing our gifts rather than our problems

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: as long as you are keeping your faith and sharing it .. is that enough??

Leslie Clark: no more hanging onto reserves and funds steve: Joan Chittister once said Get rid of the buildings give the money to the poor and get on with the work of the church suzanne edgar: The buildings are also a focal point for hundreds who don't come, but are part of the community

Joan Hawkes: We are hoping to never need a building and spend our resources on out reach steve: But there faith was not exciting

Paul Rodey: Renting space sounds great, if the roof leaks the landlord has to fix it. LOL

Leslie Clark: lol Stever, right on!

Linda Pike: there is a mindset that we must have youth - they are the future - this excludes them from the present and does not honour those attending today

Neill McRae: small elderly congregation - developer offered $4,000,00 and the y are frozen in their seats

David Forbes: Seeing lots of small worship groups meeting in homes etc

Leslie Clark: SPEND SPEND SPEND!!!

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: it used to be so much attention was on getting the best building ,..,, the most unique building...

Kevin Cox: The buildings we have are locked too often steve: re invest it at 2percent henriette: "real estate is a huge thing for rural churches - 10-15 people pew Sunday cannot support a congregation in a building shelleystickelmiles: I feel like the United church has given us a lot of freedom to worship in new ways - that is a gift

Rose Ann Vita: My daughter doesn't feel it is her church, it is the church of her Sunday School Teachers. She feels she needs to find her own church. (Hamilton) steve: what will grace do with all the money when the churches are all sold

Christine MacLeod: I Agree Kevin - what kind of message does it send to be locked out of a church?

Larry Kelly: Jesus says little about buildings and lots about sharing, helping, feeding,...

Brian Colbourne: why hold so much money in special savings waiting for a rainy day? The rain is falling! steve: bruce i hear the grumbles when i use your prayers

Christine MacLeod: Leaving buildings is leading us to stretch our imagings into creative networking wityhin the larger community

Rose Ann Vita: Too simple a answer . . . sell the buildings. steve: not from the under 30s suzanne edgar: People in my church love them

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: we need to be open and unlocked to lket the spirit in!!! shelleystickelmiles: That is what our conference is worried about - how to sell buildings steve: thanks

Larry Kelly: or transform our buildings into something transforming for society steve: how though is the building used as mission to the community

Julianne Kasmer: our members hope our church building will be vital to the community suzanne edgar: my church is in a community where the ucc is a beacon of grace

Steve Fetter: ======

Pam Harrison: sorry I must eave at 10:30

Karen Verveda: me too

John Lochead: We talked about small group ministry and faith sharing. We wondered about how you bring that about. steve: we moved out of meetings to ministry also shrinking the board to 8, and of course someone quoted the manual "you shall ..." so look to gce 2015 when there will be a remit. barbara Bitzer: barbara we were looking out moving out of meetings and how much resistance there is. I liked the comment that we focus on move into ministry rather than moving OUT of meetings.

Pam Harrison: love this way to meet

Gwen Nadeau: it feels good to be able to encourage others suzanne edgar: I can stay til 9 (central time

GSU Book Study Group: a first step is to present these ideas to our congregational annual meeting end of Feb. steve: we meet therefore we are and thus in a time of fear we schedule more meetings barbara Bitzer: Barbara that's helpful Bruce

Karen Verveda: my resistance as s minister to letting go of '

Julianne Kasmer: here we have not had many meetings, there is resistance from our very busy council (and we have no other committees) to having as many as we do - that is one a month

Karen Verveda: chaplaincy is fear of losing deep connection with people

Gail McCooeye: we also need to move from maintenance (especially of our buildings) to mission.

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: we have to be more creative/flexible on the time issue ...

Joan Hawkes: we are planning to meet monthly but every second one would be for visioning

Kevin Cox: There is resistance to training leaders in some cases- it looks to some people like we're trying to dump responsibilities, not share opportunities. shelleystickelmiles: A shift in the manual requirements for specific meetings is important - though not to let it impede us. suzanne edgar: my annual meeting isn't til March 4, and I haven't written my report yet - I can put some of this stuff in there steve: being freed to do ministry instead of attend meetings has had a liberating experience for a number of lay people in the congregation I serve

Julianne Kasmer: I have always gravitated toward discipleship groups that take on particular tasks - now to find what is really needed and find people's passions for their ministries kathryn: we do a self-nominating process ... asking people where they feel God is calling them to serve ..and then commit for one year ... makes room for change and new people becoming involved

Kevin Cox: Maybe we should train some people specifically in chaplaincy and let others do the training of leaders.

Jillian Jackson: Doing ministry for the people there rather than to get more numbers. Doing the church flowers is doing ministry.

Barry King: I just want to echo strong support for what Bruce has shared as I was able to be part of leading a congregation down the same path in Mississauga....it was the high point in my entire 27 years of ministry....first time perhaps that I felt like I was finally freed up to do what I was meant to do in ministry suzanne edgar: it's insane!

Neill McRae: The Manual was written for 18th century rural Scotland - has to be rethought in its entirety

Christine MacLeod: excellently said steve: When I introduced this as an opportunity I was amazed by how many people offered to become a lay pastoral visitor provided i initiated some training for them

Julianne Kasmer: yes, Neil, I think it is in the works...and Hi

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: it sounds like a lot of this is about trust - shelleystickelmiles: Re certain works an older congregation has limitations - a big shift in expectations required

Jack Paleczny - Kitchener: we can't be afraid of chaos

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: trusting that a loving community will meet needs

Rose Ann Vita: Bruce, is your style best fitted for a particular lifestyle --- business versus rural, professional versus blue collar?

Jane Shutty: Commitment for one year is healthy. Volunteering should not be considered a life sentence! steve: sometimes we have to get out of the way suzanne edgar: my congregation has "visiting elders" who call around to inform people of events; wonder if I could invite them to be chaplains?

David Forbes: The younger and newer people also don't realize that they are supposed to sit at the back of the church

Julianne Kasmer: I think Presbyteries have some responsibility to help us develop leadership programs for our congregations - we don’t know it all steve: and they can easily go somewhere else - the average "seeker" visits 8 churches in six months

Steve Fetter: ======

Steve Fetter: final comments

Pam Harrison: This was so wonderful I could not leave. suzanne edgar: thanks for the hope, Bruce!

Christine MacLeod: Pam and Joan we will have to talk and talk and talk!!!

Jim MacDonald: Thanks for the great experience this evening

Neill McRae: Many thanks - looking forward to next week.

Leslie Clark: thanks Bruce! shelleystickelmiles: Thanks and blessings

Lynne Dimma 2: Great, thanks steve: THANK YOU AND I WILL KEEP USING THE PRAYERS REGARDLESS

David Forbes: Blessings till next week

Christine MacLeod: Thanks Bruce and Steve - a wonderful infusion of real hope

Jay Whistlecraft: Wonderful way to spend an evening

Joan Smith: Thanks everyone see you next week

Larry Kelly: Bruce - thx for the gift of tonight. I look forward to being back at CMUC in June when we visit family again. barbara Bitzer: Barbara Thanks Bruce and Steve and to my small group.

Fort McMurray First United Church 2: thanks we really enjoyed this!!!

John Lochead: A great evening. thanks to all. Technology used to great advantage and inspiration