Episode 14: Recruitment and Retention of Faculty of Color

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Doug: Welcome to Talkingstock, I'm your host Doug Harvey, director of the Institute for Faculty Development at Stockton University. Talkingstock is a space where colleagues can discuss teaching, scholarship and service. This week we’ll be returning to the topic of diversity in higher education. And specifically talking about the recruitment and retention of faculty of color. And here is today’s guest.

Allison: My name is Allison Sinanan and I'm associate professor of social work and I'm also the coordinator of the BSW Program.

Doug: Oh, great. Thanks for joining us. So we’re talking about the topic of diversity in higher education, so I wanted to ask you; what do you see as the factors that are influencing the underrepresentation of both students and faculty of color in higher ed?

Allison: So, I think when we have diversity in a diverse faculty body, staff, and students, it really helps with the richness of the education process for the student, as well as for the faculty. It influences the strength, productivity, intellectual personality of what the university can offer to the students. I think many times students live in a microcosm or as faculty does as well. And they truly, you know you hear the word diversity and we kind of have our own definition of it. And so teaching at a PWI, predominantly white institute, as a female of color it was a little culture shock to me coming from New York.

And I hear New York, New Jersey, no big difference, but many of the students were not as receptive to talk about diversity or having— And it’s really interesting the social program, we have a lot of nontraditional students. Right? With respect to their age, and so when I started here I was sometimes the same age. Even today I'm the same age as some of the students and how do they feel of me being female, with me being a woman of color, being the same age, I'm their professor. And then the coordinator. And what does that mean for them? And have they ever had to experience that? So in that respect, I think, I could’ve made the easy decision in teaching in New York, but I felt especially the courses that I teach with—I teach race, ethnicity, diversity.

I also teach social classes, I think sometimes they need to see the perspective from my lens. And it brings—I believe, it brings a different perspective; maybe I would like to think richness to it, as opposed to just lecturing straight from a textbook. I could say, “This is oppression, look at what I’ve experienced, and I'm sure you have too. Do you recognize that you have been a victim of oppression or discrimination or what have you?”

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Doug: That’s a very important point. I was speaking to some other faculty in another recording where we talked about women in academia. And some of the things that they face. And so you’re sort of dealing with more than just that. You’re also dealing with the—

Allison: - Minority, the—to coin a phrase.

Doug: Right. So how do we improve that then? How do we improve the diversity of those students and faculty, as well as I guess change the climate or the culture of an institution?

Allison: Yeah, so I think we’ve seen at Stockton that we will—you know we hire faculty of color, but it’s a concern of retention. And so how do we create an environment that truly understands the needs of faculty who have diversity and linking them with mentors? But also having administration and staff really understand what does that mean. So it’s interesting, I think we only have one assistant dean that is somebody of color. And some diversity issue, like physical ability you can’t see, so we don’t know. But visually what we’re seeing; it’s not there. And I can speak firsthand, like I said, the culture shock and so forth and it was not because of the informal mentoring that I received here. I don’t think I would’ve been so productive, and stayed or what have you. I can say that now that I have tenure.

But because it was a shock in terms of how things go. And as for students, sometimes, so it’s interesting presenting at a conference on Thursday for the National Council of Black Studies, talking about mentoring, informal, informal mentoring for African American male students. And how this helps tremendously with retention, because African American males have the highest dropout rate of college, of attending college. Right? The retention rates are really, really low. And so the idea here is if we have some type of mentorship, studies have shown it helps with them feeling comfortable. But this is a new environment, new atmosphere, right? So it’s a different language, academia and so forth. And so how do we create this inviting experience where they feel like they fit?

So it’s an inclusive experience, so that’s the key of how—you know and I know this is part of the IFD of how—and I'm now—it’s going to be the fellow for diversity. And so my goal is for staff, students—and I stress staff and administration, because I think faculty, I think, we’re very vocal and we kind of believe that. I don’t know all—we advocate and we’re big on that. So I want it to be that everyone is involved in the idea of having an inclusive campus, because I think that’s key. And you know we’ve seen—and you know I'm not trying to blame, but we’ve seen administration attend events and so forth and that’s really been supportive. But I don’t know if students feel that presence as much as they need to.

Doug: Yeah, I think it’s always a struggle, right, when you don’t have a diverse faculty, then how do you mentor diverse students?

Allison: So, what happens and we’ve talked about this, informally, myself, Donny, Daryl, other people, faculty of color. Where we have like a following of students of color that will take our class. So I teach social work, but I’ll have students that will take every social work class that they can, but they’re a chem major or a business major, what have you, because they feel that connection or feel comfortable. Can you be my preceptor? And so it’s—I did a study here, a qualitative study, I want to say six years ago, where again I took African American males and they talked about the experiences of when they approached certain professors. They felt they didn’t get—they weren’t as receptive as opposed to if it was a white student that was approaching them asking—you know was about like do you mind showing me this mathematical problem?

Or could you have office hours and so forth? And it was not just one student; I interviewed 20 and this was the theme that I saw. So again, hence the following happens.

Doug: I think you see it a lot in terms of students being reticent to approach certain professors. Just because, you know and again, it’s—and vice versa, right? Professors, I think, are sort of unsure what to do. Right? Because this is somebody other than what they’re used to. Right? So you sort of face that. And then in terms of hiring and the tenure process on these kinds of things, these—you can’t—it’s going to come up. Right? The question is how honest are we right, in dealing with it?

Allison: And I make the joke like, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the movie, Precious?

Doug: Yeah.

Allison: Okay. And so it was about sexual abuse, physical abuse and so forth, and it’s a movie we talk about in social work classes. And I say, you know in the way that they portrayed the social worker, it was Mariah Carry, one of the most glamorous females that exists, and they made her wear drab colors, gray, no makeup, wig and so forth. And the same thing how professors are portrayed in media, it’s typically a white male with the tweed jacket, with the elbow—so I don’t fit that. And so it’s interesting how, you know so I used to do this experiment when I was fairly new or just students never took me—it was a freshman class. I would sit on the sideline and then I would stand and I could see everybody’s face, like, “That’s the professor,” and so it was interesting.

“So why are you shocked that I'm your professor?” Let’s talk about the isms that exist. And it was like a great way to break the ice. Say, “Listen, I know they exist, let’s just talk about them, get them out there.”

Doug: Now do you use any other techniques in your classes to try to bring that out?

Allison: So many times it’s hard for students to understand racism because they haven’t been a victim of or to understand white privilege. So I talk about other instances that they could think about where they felt excluded. Whether it’s because of their weight, or how they looked, or lack of physical ability or sports, or what have you. And then how the one time they were included. And so they could see the difference how they may—how they felt. And there’s also a exercise by Peggy [McIntyre], which is great, where the students stand up. I say, “Okay sit down if you attended public school or if you had parents —or you knew somebody who was a drug addict or had to go to jail and so forth.”

And they saw the commonalities of, wow, this class is a bit diverse, but we all have these common presenting concerns in our life. And that helps to say we’re more alike than different. Yeah, but in my race class, I get very—you know I want to be real. And I'm not teaching it this semester. And I’m happy and I'm also upset, because I think about what’s going on in the country today, I would be like this every—and talk about immigration. And your president, as you say, not you per se, yeah. So I'm happy that I'm not teaching, but I feel like I hope everyone’s addressing it. Because oh my goodness, I have students that have parents from Mexico, or different immigration status and so forth and that’s a big concern. And I can’t imagine being a student, midterms is coming up and this is now, you know.

Doug: Well you found some things in the IFD to talk about. Talking about issues that are difficult right now. But again, we were talking more about the politics and not race. So—and I know that there are definitely professors that have asked about, how do I address these issues or race in my class? Right? So I think you’ve talked about a couple ways to do that where you break down that barrier, right of just not understanding the other. Right? And so these are good ideas.

Allison: Also just one thing; I think I'm really big on helping students realize that race is a social construct. And that it’s crazy that we have seven billion people in the world and we put them into five or six, wow, categories. And so when they think about it in that perspective. And I explain that there’s some families that one may identify one way, and another way and a lot of its visual. And it’s interesting, I take myself, you know and this is on radio, but I'm brown- skinned. And I ask the students, “Well if you had to put me in a category of white or black, which one would you put?” And it’s really interesting of

where they put and that the students are do—because a lot of times you can’t tell visually where I'm from and I use that to my advantage.

And say, “Well why are you so curious? Do you want to fit me in a box? Because if I told you I'm from here, you’d say, oh so you eat this. Or oh you do this or you do that.” I say, “Why is that so important for you to put somebody in a box?”

Doug: Good question.

Allison: And so this is how I really address and—yeah.

Doug: - And what do they usually answer?

Allison: It’s interesting, half—and you know some students will say white. And they say because of the texture of my hair. And they say your skin color too. And some students will say black, because of your skin color. So it’s really interesting the class—when I'm done it’s like divided, it’s really—

Doug: - It’s where you’re coming from.

Allison: Yes, it’s really interesting how they divide it, yeah.

Doug: So what other advice would you give to the colleagues who are teaching content-related to diversities or anything that you’d say, this is a good idea to start with?

Allison: Yeah, so like I said, thinking about race is a social construct in letting the students. Again, I think it’s hard for students to realize, or recognize or admit to white privilege, and it’s hard. I remember I had one student said, “You know I feel guilty being white,” and so obviously I don’t know how that feels. But to explore with them, what that means and then how they have the power to—the fact that you can address or recognize institutional racism. So you—I said the thing about this, I said, “The wonderful thing about racism is that it’s taught. And so you—it’s a process that you can unlearn or work actively.” Right? I said “So when kids go on the playground,” and I use my daughter a lot, I said, “Kids don’t care who they’re playing with, it’s if I pull my daughter or give my daughter a certain look.”

But they just care who has the cookies or who has—who’s on the monkey bars or what have you, it’s what they learn. I say, “You know it’s really interesting when people say, oh my dog is racist.” I said, “Your dog is not racist, it’s the emotion that you—the dog is feeding off of you that will—they know to attack to this or that.” To bark at or what have you, so I use those—I try to use day to day, every day examples, so people can relate to—or students can relate to it.

Doug: That’s process, I think, it takes a long time to break down some of those barriers and it’s usually experience that does that. Right? I mean, you know it’s when you actually—I mean I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood in Philadelphia and I grew up hearing different things about different races that were definitely not true. And it was when I went to school downtown and got out of my neighborhood and realized, oh I'm around students of other races and they’re smarter than me. So this idea that they’re all dumb, that I’ve been told since I was a kid, right, doesn’t apply anymore. Because I'm going, well it’s just not happening in my experience. And that makes me question, right, and then that’s—but that’s not—it doesn’t end there, you know what I mean.

It’s kind of engrained in you over a very long time and it’s hard to break out of that. And you still find yourself at times, going, oh why did I react like that? Well it’s because I'm still falling back on—I mean I’m 50 years old and I'm still falling back on stuff I did when—I learned when I was 10. Right? So and then I think that’s what’s hard, as students, you know to be given those opportunities, but then when you have an institution where maybe you don’t see as many students of different races. Now you’re not really getting the experience. So how do you get those?

Allison: Blatantly when I see people of color, they’re mostly cleaning. Right? There our custodial staff or they’re in the lunch area and so forth. Nothing— obviously there’s nothing wrong with that, but the fact that this is solely what they see and so who were their role models.

Doug: - So without faculty, without administration, that are of these other—that look different than me, then I'm always going to assume that, right, what I’ve been told or what I’ve learned is true.

Allison: Right. So I even do a exercise, I take somebody that is considered good looking in Hollywood, so like a Brad Pitt who’s white. And then I take someone who is not your traditional Eurocentric look, like a rapper or whomever. So like Future, I don’t know if you know, so I’ll take those two and I say, “Well why do you believe—who’s more handsome? And why do you believe this? And this is how you’ve been socialized with media; to believe this one person is better looking because they have the Eurocentric features.” Or even when we see black actresses or whomever. In media typically they then still have those Eurocentric features that we find, that’s beautiful, what have not. I also ask them, I say, “Without your parents coming to get at me, do you date outside your race? And why or why not?

Why are you voting the way you do? Is that you’ve been told this way? Or do you understand what love is and are you opening yourself to these experiences?” I tell them, “This is college, this is where you should live and

learn and just don’t stick with your—make some friends. But do you have friends of diversity, not only with race, but ability or religion? Or ideological differences or what have you to really expose yourself to say, I think this way. I’ve been exposed to X amount and I think this way because I’ve made a conscious decision to think this or believe this. And as soon as you see the— you see the wheels turning and like whoa, I never thought I’d only date— And I say, let me break it down. I say, “It’s not that you’re Italian, you’re dating somebody who’s Irish, even broaden your perspective.

So—because in our mind it’s still Caucasian, or white. Because now there’s a big thing with using the word Caucasian. I don’t know if you read about [unintelligible 00:16:19]. Yeah it’s like this thing going on in social work that it’s fairly new. Like what is Caucasian mean; is this a proper term to continue to use? So I have to now—so what does it mean that if you’re dating somebody white, but—or somebody outside your race, specifically not ethnicity? So we talk about—I mean I get really real in my classes. Because I think that students listen as opposed to just straight lecturing, like this is what happened 300 years this or this slavery or not, you know that’s important, as well. But they want to connect it to their day to day, what’s going on to make it relevant.

And they see—yeah and I make the joke, I said, “Listen, if I'm looking for certain students, I know where to find you in the cafeteria, downstairs in the specific booth. Why is that?” I said, “But you—I can’t blame you guys, because you’ll see faculty members also grouping either by discipline, or by race or gender.” So we do the same thing as well and then they kind of now are more open with their eyes when they see—

Doug: Now, let’s say a faculty member was looking to look into this more and start exploring the topic for themselves. Where would you start them out?

Allison: Peggy [McIntyre] is amazing and she has a lot of work that’s about—talking about diversity. There’s abundance of research that looks about teaching about diversity, especially if you’re not of diverse population. And how do you address topics that can be taboo? Like typically you talk about it within your group, but if it’s between groups; how do you feel about that? I have the reverse of me being a woman of color talking to a majority of white students. And how do they feel? And how do I address that? But I see that as an advantage, I don’t see that as a disadvantage. The only time I feel a little is when we talk about white privilege, because I want them to understand it’s not me stating this, it’s the advantages of the United States and history.

So that’s the little tricky part, I think it’s different coming from a white professor as opposed to coming from me. But that they could look at my research I do. And there’s a lot of faculty members here that publish about race and teaching at a predominantly white institution. And what does that

mean when you’re talking about diversity? It’s different; it’s easier to talk about race in New York, for me, right, because we see it, we feel it, there’s demonstrations going on in—right in front of the universities. Right? So it’s like in our face; we see the police officers, we will see it’s a little bit—hits home a little bit more. I'm not saying racism exists everywhere, it’s just that it’s, I think, more out there in our face. And there’s more political action, like Al Sharpton, you’ll see him in the train next to you, so it’s a little bit different.

Doug: Okay. Well thanks a lot for your—spending time with me today and talking about this topic. If people want to reach you is there a way to get ahold of you?

Allison: They could just feel free to email me [email protected].

Doug: Allison, thank you very much.

Allison: Thank you for having me, appreciate it.

Doug: Talkingstock is a podcast produced by me, Doug Harvey, for the Institute for Faculty Development at Stockton University. Visit our website, www.stockton.edu/ifd or you could find a link to show notes and transcripts for every episode. The music for talkingstock is provided by the Organic Music Library, www.organicmusiclibrary.com. Thank you for listening.