Fairfield Library Consultation Drop in 17/5/16

APPENDIX 2

Facilitators:-

Julie Nixon – Lead Review Officer

Reuben Kench – Head of Culture & Leisure

Mark Freeman – Libraries & Heritage Service Manager

Councillor Norma Wilburn - Cabinet Member for Arts, Leisure and Culture, Norton West Ward

RK outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money.

Main points raised

 Integration of the site, looking at local community spaces – Fairfield Boys Club, churches, schools, refurbish Portakabin/bus and place in the community

 Look at groups who need space in the community and make income from them using the site Utilise the space when it is closed.

 Parking around sites for people with disabilities

 Concerns around isolation of people in the community

 Volunteers underpinning library delivery

 Council tax increase to cover library costs

Details of the Council’s car mileage scheme were requested.

Questions/Statements ( red) and Answers/Comments (black)

Q: Which body took the decision to close Egglescliffe and Fairfield, and when?

A: Cabinet in 2012 – the policy was to concentrate on Town Centre libraries complemented by smaller libraries. Vulnerability was highlighted around the libraries at Fairfield and Egglescliffe.

Q: Why was Fairfield vulnerable?

A: Due to it not being a Town Centre site. Cabinet report in 2012 highlighted that we would look to maintain the full range of services within Town Centre settings, looking at co-located service facilities for those sites not co-located in the review of 2012.

Q: Do you realise how large the area is and the numbers of schools? It is more like a community centre/hub.

A: Yes we are aware of the size of the residential area that surrounds the library and the schools that are within the local area. We collate figures around the use of the facility. We do not look at the closure of the site lightly. Q: Why is it always about cuts - can’t it be about income?

Could we look at ways to raise money to keep the library open? Have you looked for commercial tenants to help run the library? I work in a local church and we are always being approached for space from businesses/services who will pay.

A: We have spoken to Elmwood and Grangefield – both places are full with no space available at either site. OnSite looked at Fairfield Library but they have advised that at the moment the Library does not fit in with their business plan, as they are busy bringing other sites forward.

Q: Why can’t you approach the groups looking for space within the community? Could groups use the library when the building is closed?

A: We will look at these groups and feed any details into the Cabinet report in relation to income being offset against budget savings. However, in order to make the required saving, income would need to be at a significant level.

Q: What will happen to the staff?

A: Staff will become part of the staffing restructure within the department which will see redundancies and people taking retirement. Where required, staff would be interviewed for positions within the service.

Q: Who are the decisions down to, as the consultation document sounds like management drivel? The main criteria for the decisions should be use of the site. We need to see statistics relating to visits, events and activities at the library. Fairfield Library has large numbers of users.

A: We have figures regarding the use of the site but the policy adopted by the Council sets out Town Centre Library provision with integrated areas of delivery for other sites. We co-located Thornaby and Roseworth at the last consultation. At this time there are no viable opportunities for co-location of Fairfield Library.

Q: Have you looked at integrating with schools?

A: We have one site integrated with a School at Ingleby – this is not without difficulty in relation to the freedom of access for users /staff to the area. We did have communication with Ian Ramsey in the past but we asked to replicate the space we have at Fairfield due to customer use statistics. Due to various reasons, this was not progressed.

Q: How much are we looking to save?

A: £130k.

Q: What are the car mileage rates paid? Who determines the rates? Can you provide figures outside of the meeting?

A: Rates are set in agreement with the union and approved at Cabinet. Yes, we will provide details of the rates.

Q: Consultation appears to be an afterthought with loaded questions as part of a process that we have never had the opportunity to be part of.

A: Since the initial decision regarding the Library model all decisions have been recorded and made public via e-genda/reports. It would have been disingenuous of us to state anything other than the real picture. Q: How much was spent on Stockton and Yarm Libraries?

A: In Stockton approximately £1.5million – this incorporated Customer Services and Cashiers within the same facility so was not just spent on the library refurbishment. Bringing these services together in the same building saved money for the Council overall (invest to save).

Q: Are we looking at volunteers?

A: At the last review we were advised that people value the staff highly and this is important to them to maintain dedicated trained staff. We accept that there is a level of interest but we are adamant that we want to keep a professional staffed service. Volunteers have a role to play supporting the service but sole delivery by volunteers is complex – we already use volunteers to help deliver events/activities and the hospital service. There are issues around volunteers in relation to data protection, confidentiality, training, insurance costs and legitimacy.

Q: What about the people who use the library – it is often their only social contact.

What about children with disabilities – it’s not always about hard cash. Its more than just books we need to realise the impact of withdrawing the library.

A: Lots of decisions are being taken around support to people within the community from a variety of services. There is recognition of the work that libraries do which is why they have been retained at the levels to date.

Q: Parking is an issue at Stockton Library. Stockton High Street is not access friendly – issues exist around visitors who have problems around vision and hearing. It is also not dementia friendly.

Q: Does the policy have to be the same for both libraries?

A: The consultation process will generate ideas/ thoughts/ comments. Cabinet will have to base their decision on the information they are presented with. If they decide to keep either library open, savings will have to be realised elsewhere within the library service.

We were/are still seeking co location opportunities but have been unsuccessful to date.

Q: What will happen to the building?

A: We cannot say at this stage.

Q: Does Cabinet meet in private? Can we attend? Could we ask questions?

A: Yes, it is an open meeting with people able to ask questions.

Q: When will the Library close? This year/next year? There is a good chance it will close so what is the point of consultation?

A: We are in the middle of consultation. When this ends, all the consultation comments will be pulled together and will form part of the Cabinet Report.

Q: What if people are prepared to pay more via their council tax for the library to remain open?

A: We are here to listen to your suggestions for the site and allow you to bring your ideas forward. The1964 Act states that “no charge shall be made by a library authority (otherwise than to another library authority) for library facilities made available by the authority.”

Q: Have Education providers been approached? A: Yes – we have spoken to Stockton Learning and Skills in relation to them being an anchor tenant for the building, but they are also facing budget cuts within their area.

Q: Do you know that the staff here provide access to ICT for older people and help children access the internet? What will happen to those people?

Q: What is the breakdown of costs - staff to building?

A: Staff make up the majority of the costs at the site.

We need to remember that despite the cuts that have been made previously, we are still delivering a high level of service across the borough.

Q: When will the staff be cut at the site – one person has worked 30 years? Will they lose their jobs as soon as the site closes?

A: Savings will be made immediately on closure and also at the point that staff leave the service. In relation to staffing we will be conducting a staff restructure which will see some taking redundancy, others retiring, some taking up vacant posts. An interview process could take place depending on the outcome of the staff restructure and number of people wishing to remain in service.

Q: Do you expect to increase the use of the Mobile Service and if so will you be buying a new one as you have said that the Mobile is well used. Mobile stock is limited.

A: A new Mobile will not be purchased, and yes it is well used, but if we have to utilise the Mobile in areas where libraries have closed, the routes will be re-assessed. Stock can be changed and circulated as required.

Q: My husband is an invalid – he can get to Fairfield but not to Stockton because of the issues with parking around the site.

A: We may need to look at parking provision at other sites as part of this.

Q: Have you looked at the opening hours at other sites – e.g. Stockton is open until 8pm with few people using it at this time?

A: We will be looking at opening times at other libraries later on in the process.

Q: Not everyone has the use of a car.

A: As part of the Impact assessment we will be looking at gathering travel data – this will form part of the report to Cabinet.

Councillor Wilburn closed the meeting and thanked people for attending.

Councillor Perry suggested looking at:

Fairfield Boys Club

Local churches and schools

Old Portakabins/buses which are refurbished and “placed in the community” Fairfield Library Consultation Drop in 1/6/16

Facilitators:-

JN outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money. Council has a financial plan up to 2020 with a £20 million gap. The savings will be challenging and we have to look at all services across the Council. Each service has been given a target of savings to make which will result in services and contracting changing. £130k of savings from Library budget and a £100k cut to the Book fund. In 2011members agreed the Library Strategy for Stockton this stated that there would be a network of Town Centre and co- located Libraries. Stockton has protected its libraries - since 2011 two libraries have integrated but not Egglescliffe and Fairfield. In February Cabinet took the decision to look at Egglescliffe and Fairfield again. Areas for co-location have been looked at. JN/MF spoken to OnSite but due to space restrictions and how busy the facility is the building isn’t suitable. Fairfield was investigated but OnSite decided not to proceed as it doesn’t fit in with the current business plan. We have also spoken to the Post Office and Newcastle Building Society to no avail.

Main points raised

 Could money be saved by revising the Council’s staff car mileage scheme?

 Savings if site closes?

 Accessibility of Stockton Library/Town Centre re parking and transportation for disabled

 Are there statistics on who uses the library?

 Alternative premises/library provision

 Income from bungalow at the back of site

 Concern regarding spending in other areas, i.e.Yarm, High Street, Globe

Questions/Comments /Answers

Q: What Savings are you looking at from Fairfield?

A: circa £77K

Q: What are the costs of the Mobile? How will you manage to put extra stops on? Are you buying a new one? Will it run on a night as I come after work?

A: The mobile currently visits daytime we will be reviewing their rotas, but we have evening cover across the whole of the Library Service.

Q: Stockton is not accessible to disabled people, the parking is not good. We have just found out today that there is a 56 day notice of the no 87 bus being withdrawn.

Why spend money on Yarm and then close Fairfield? It’s always libraries in affluent areas that suffer.

A: This goes back to the Library Strategy of 2011 and investment in Town Centre Libraries – Billingham, Ingleby, Thornaby, Stockton, Yarm and Norton.

Q: More people visit this library than Yarm – the point of libraries was the edification of the public. This is more than a library it is a Community Centre. This is tragic - it is the jewel in the crown.

Last meeting I suggested a way of saving the money and asked questions about car mileage payments. I haven’t had a reply yet.

A: We will chase it up.

Q: Staggered at the little amount of money to be saved.

A: We have to remember that the Library Service has to make £130k in cuts. If these budget reductions are not made, then the savings would have to be found elsewhere to bridge the budget gap. The money has to come from somewhere in the department.

Q: Is £130k a saving across the whole department?

A: Yes, we have already removed £100k from the Bookfund this year.

Q: Is Elmwood owned by the Council?

A: Elmwood was subject to a third sector organisation asset transfer to Onsite, which is a not for profit organisation.

Q: This is all about money do you realise what happens in this building – Funky Feet, Toddler, Rhymetime, Chair dance. It is a lifeline for people who cannot get to Stockton- people like me who need to use the library. I am disabled and can get to this site independently but I would need a carer to take me to Stockton. Money could have been spent here.

I have been outside collecting signatures for the petition, people are despondent and appalled. There is a lady who manages to get here by bus - she couldn’t go to Stockton.

What about people who cannot get the bus?

Are these closures taking place irrespective of the numbers of people who use them? No thought has gone into where people will use - Stockton or Yarm, but it’s a bus ride and we are losing the 87.

A: Cabinet will make the decision in September; we put the proposals through including views of yourselves and details of how people will access the service. We will look at the Mobile and Housebound services.

Q: Children won’t use the Mobile. What good are 3-weekly visits?

How much is in the contingency fund, who decides on the spends and investments, why can we not use that money? There is money somewhere – no one says where it is. Council has reserves it can use. Use that money on children and elderly. A: In the future funding will be more restricted – we have a gap in the budget (£20million) which has to be balanced. This is only one of many hard decisions being taken.

Q: I am a guide dog owner and concerned for the future as we will have an increase of people with sight loss and other disabilities as people are living longer. I am lucky I can get around as my partner drives me, but others are not as lucky. Buses are not available and problems of access will only increase in coming years.

Q: About sponsorship - Andrew Carnegie. Why can you not get a sponsor - open it up to commercial enterprises/supermarket sponsorship?

A: We will consider this, but if this was a viable option I am sure 1 of 151 authorities would have done this. Large supermarkets sponsor Summer Reading Challenge – short term projects, but none have come forward to run libraries.

Q: What about volunteers?

A: We use volunteers to compliment the service, not to run the sites

Q: Have you thought about the school?

A: We have a partnership in a school. Being on a school site presents issues around safeguarding and positioning at the library. We had discussions several years ago regarding Ian Ramsey but this did not come to anything.

Q: Reduce the hours at the site, only open on an afternoon - that would be ok. Regarding the reduction of hours – how are these decisions made? Have you made the decision about Fairfield because you know that we will travel to other sites whereas people from Roseworth would just stop going to the library?

We all read and we pay our council tax, so why us? Why can’t you close Stockton for a day?

A: It is a large Town Centre site and would go against the strategy.

Q: It’s harder to use Stockton - there is no parking, the library is not friendly, it’s hard to find books, and you cannot just sit in there. If you close a library like this it affects the mental health of the community. I thought that health and wellbeing was something that was important to Stockton; this decision goes against that.

The wording of the consultation is bad.

A: The reason we ask the questions we do is to plan the future use of the service, i.e. if a lot of people say they will use the Mobile we need to look at their operational hours.

Q: It appears that the decision has been made and that this site will close. What will you do with the site?

A: We are here to listen to your views - the decision to close has not yet been taken. You need to express your comments on the consultation documents. There is an asset team within the Council who will look after the building until it is disposed of – if this is the decision.

Q: Eaglescliffe and Fairfield are prime retail sites - if you don’t know the answers, someone does. Who is it?

A: Use of the site does not affect the review. Q: If this site closes the majority of people use bus passes - does SBC know the extra costs of this travel?

You haven’t got a clue what will happen when it closes have you?

A: No decisions have been taken yet - this is why we are consulting.

Q: There are 9 schools in this catchment area – what have the headteachers at these schools said? They may put budgets towards the library.

Q: This is my local library - my family visits, my mum can manage to carry her books here, my dad has Alzheimer’s but he can get to this library. I realise that it is about money, but something must be done.

Why can’t you charge for the service/membership?

A: We are not legally able to charge for library services.

Q: What about the bungalow at the back – where is that income?

Councillor Wilburn informed the meeting that officers are looking at options and promised that all issues will be considered before they are taken to Cabinet. She reiterated that Stockton has an excellent library service that has been subject to ongoing investment by the Council.

Q: Why is the Cabinet opposed to volunteers?

A: The Council is not opposed to volunteers, but we wish to retain qualified paid staff.

Q: If money is made selling this site, then why can you not build an area at Elmwood?

Where is the rent from the flat – I am looking at getting people to use the building on days when the site is closed. I have already got a lady interested in pilates.

Have you looked at Grangefield Community Centre or Fairfield Boys Club?

You are looking at these two sites closing. If they don’t, is there another alternative?

A: This isn’t a done deal - we have looked at OnSite but there are other suggestions to look at. We have to put proposals together which will form the basis of the savings.

Q: SBC borrows £17million to build a hotel – no one comes to Stockton, it’s a dead end street.

Take out staffing elsewhere.

A: Staff will be part of the overall staffing review – if we retain Fairfield, savings will need to be made elsewhere. Staff here will not lose their jobs due to the site closing - they will be required to apply for vacancies within the service. We currently have vacancies.

The meeting closed and the dates of future consultation events were reiterated.

Paper to Cabinet at the beginning of September. Fairfield Library Consultation Drop in 7/6/16

Facilitators:-

JN outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money including details of the discussions with OnSite, and that we had also approached NBS and the Post Office. We are now consulting on the proposed closure of Fairfield and Egglescliffe Libraries. Opened the floor up to those people who had not attended previously and wanted to ask questions

Main points to take forward

 Use of the site

 SBC spend on Yarm and Ingleby libraries

 Stockton Library access issues

 OnSite discussions/re location

 Land covenant – to look into?

 Library budget cuts

Q: Why build a Leisure Centre including a library – could that investment not be shared?

A: Clarification of budget pots – library service has to cut day to day running costs.

Q: Could the Council look around to save the money from other things. It’s not a lot of money that needs saving.

This library is closing because people in this area have money. People need the ICT to look for jobs. What about the early learning - you are taking access to books away from the school. There are materials here for all ages- it’s a personal library not like Stockton. It’s open to all and it’s friendly – an asset.

Have you done a study of people the site caters for - its value for money? How many people use this site compared to the Mobile Library? How many people use the Library at Norton? This library is the busiest in the borough. A: This site issues close to the same number of books as Norton Library – we acknowledge that this library is busy but we have to make cuts to the library budgets. The Mobile serves schools, care homes and outlying areas - we deliver the library service to communities in many different ways, delivering reminiscence sessions, the public health library supports dementia community etc.

Q: The mobile visits now and again - it isn’t like a static site.

I could go to Stockton but I am not interested - the girls here know what customers are looking for and they know the people who come through the doors.

A: Stockton Library is used in a different way to this site - it is the main central library which holds the larger areas of staff and stock to support the other sites. It holds our specialist departments.

Q: Users here struggle with transport; Stockton is not good re access for parking.

As a Librarian who was responsible for delivering disabled services I know that books are very heavy especially when you have to use a bus. Stockton is out of reach to many elderly users who want to take more than two books out.

Fairfield Library has community benefits – this is lost in Stockton. The things that add benefits to people’s lives are lost there.

A: Elmwood Community Centre has a lot of activities happening at the site so there is no capacity for a library to be situated here. We have looked at the building (Fairfield) with OnSite and they have advised us that currently they are not in a position to take the building on.

Q: Where did you get the idea from for the model of Stockton Library?

A: Thornaby Central Library was the first in 2008. Since then we have been updating all of the library sites making them access friendly.

Q: Where does the finance come from?

A: Funding explained regarding Capital and Revenue.

Q: It’s impossible to use public transport with books and shopping – you are talking of saving money but what about the extra costs regarding bus travel to the Council?

My grandson comes here after school. Where will he go in future?

If it closes down what will happen?

A: Staff outlined process regarding the building closure.

The library service is like all library services in that they have to take cuts to budgets. We have received excellent investment from the council and we make sure that all people have access to the library in some way, but we have to take a cut in the overall budget. We have done as much as we can prior to this – removing small parts of the budget over the last few years, but we now have to look at larger savings. Egglescliffe and Fairfield proposals are part of these savings.

Q: I work with Brownies/Rainbows and I cannot believe that we are looking to remove this library where the children come along to learn. Summer Reading Challenge is one of the most oversubscribed at the site. Children 5-10 years cannot go to Stockton to do the SRC. A: We will have to look at this. We have children take part in the SRC via the Mobile.

Q: Surely you are trying to get people to come to libraries and away from the TV and IT - this is the next generation we are talking about.

Why not look at sponsorship – I have mentioned it before.

A: We said that we would look at this, and I have spoken to colleagues around the region – Google are running an event in Newcastle currently and they have advised that you would need to employ a Business Manager to deal with this, so it would not save money.

Q: You have to make cutbacks – why aren’t councillors and cabinet members taking cuts?

It’s difficult to understand why a purpose built library is being closed.

A: We have to focus on the Library Strategy agreed by Cabinet.

Q: Should we have complained about this when it was planned? We were not given the opportunity.

A: There was an opportunity last time we were out to consultation - we held a meeting at the site then.

Q: 4-5 years ago you integrated two sites – Roseworth was discontinued.

A: Roseworth moved into the Children’s Centre at the end of the shops and is open Monday to Friday.

Q: When is the Mobile in the area – once a week is no good and the stock isn’t suitable.

How many people use the site? Can the community support the site? Can we pay a subscription?

A: No statistics with us today, but we do have user figures for the site.

Explanation of not being able to pay subscriptions to fund library services.

Q: This library is busier than Stockton Library.

A: It is not as busy as Stockton but we do accept that the site is well used. We cannot make a comparison with Stockton Library as the libraries are different. Stockton is the main Central Library and houses specialist departments, and retains the larger support areas for the service.

Q: Does Fairfield Library generate income – you should charge for the reservations and book loans. Do you switch energy providers?

A: Explanation of procurement of providers regarding energy and street lighting initiative. Fairfield Library is old and costly to maintain.

Q: Do we need a firework display?

Has any consideration been given to the increase in housing in the area – what are the thoughts around the increased infrastructure?

This is not about footfall or use of ICT, this is about people having opportunities and access to services within areas. Do you have any weighting figures in relation to this measure? A: This is a difficult area to measure - as you come by choice, It is hard to work out what happens at each individual visit. We have tried this previously. An impact assessment will be produced for the report regarding demographics in the area and the impact of proposals plus plans to mitigate the impact.

Q: Do you take demographics into account? Can you guarantee the decision has not been made?

Councillor Hall:-

I hope the message gets through that the impact of closing this site is clear. I would not have taught if it wasn’t for this library. We have 1000 signatures and looking to get 2000. Council will have to decide we have pinned our flags to the mast, we know who visits and we know that on some days footfall here is busier than Stockton.

Are you willing to lose one of the best used sites in the borough? People have offered to be volunteers – Cabinet ruled this out. This site hasn’t been marketed - I have a yoga and pilates teacher waiting to come into the site to generate income. With 2000 signatures you will have to think again. This is the jewel in the crown. Don’t close a safe environment. Big open plan libraries don’t work. I hope Councillor Wilburn will listen - we know the difference between Capital and Revenue.

Friends of Fairfield Library will meet at the pub to launch the next phase of saving the library.

There are people who use Stockton, who only use that site/ space for the same reasons people use here.

Q: Will you increase the buses to Stockton?

Volunteers need training, they need a lot of time .I know the work that goes into this - I managed 120 volunteers and it’s a 24-hour job. You cannot use volunteers to run a frontline service.

A: We do use volunteers – SRC, hospital, events and activities. We do not use volunteers on their own to deliver services.

Q: What are the running costs for the library/ labour costs?

A: Information provided regarding costs of sites and current staffing.

Q: I worked in libraries in Wales which were integrated in schools - has there been any consideration re this?

A: Explanation of Ingleby Library facility.

Q: The third sector places value on volunteers - SBC works with Catalyst re up-skilling people. I cannot believe that in this day and age Cabinet does not value the work volunteers do.

A: We do value our volunteers, but there is a lot of work co-ordinating them.

Q: If you use the Mobile how will you notify/extend it?

A: Length of stops depends on the numbers using it. Depending on the decision, we will need to look at the Mobile timetable. We review its use yearly re capacity and stops.

Q: Has anyone looked at the impact on local schools – do all of the schools have libraries? A: School provision is patchy/varied. We take the Mobile into schools; we will look at who we serve on this side of the borough.

Q: 18,000 issues – can the Mobile cope with that?

A: The Mobile carries around 6-7000 books and replenishes the stocks after each route from a store.

Q: This is an issue of bad management by the council you have ignored advice to increase Council charges. It is political.

A: There are limits to how much we can increase council tax. Cash from the government is decreasing. Services cost more, with less money available from the government. SBC has not had responsibility for these for a long time, although we do try to influence the bus operators’ decisions regarding routes etc.

Q: How long has the budget reduction process been happening?

A: Since 2000 - easy wins were delivered first.

Q: Reviews haven’t worked- we are losing here and you are looking for more money. Have all of the other libraries taken cuts?

A: £100k was taken from the Bookfund in March 2016

£100k of income has been set against Libraries/Learning and Skills

£130k is to come from the remainder of the library budget

To make these savings we are looking at the whole staff structure and library buildings. Changes will be made to the management structure. We take the opportunities where we can – our Senior ICT Manager retires this year and the work will be shared out to other managers.

Q: Will these cuts be shared across all libraries?

This building was built with money from the sale of the Elmwood site – did that money buy the land? Is it freehold? Is there a covenant which says only a library can be here? Can you build anything else on the land?

Why do you need a Central Library – no one lives there, no one goes in there. This is a community, Scouts and Beavers come here and kids come after school.

A: Thousands of people go into the Central Library site for books and other services - you need a Central Site to back up the other sites.

Q: This is a community and this Council needs to recognise that.

You are still buying newspapers and magazines?

A: some people come into the site to read these and books?

Q: This whole process is predictable. Austerity is a lie just to save money for the government. We pay our taxes and we want our money’s worth. We are not a poor developing country. You should be saying “give us our money we deserve our services”.

SBC should spend the money – they waste money on the Hilton Hotel. Q: If other people took more responsibility regarding spending, people of Fairfield and Hartburn wouldn’t be here.

Why are you refurbishing Yarm Library?

A: The site needs to be brought up to standard – we have to think of the future.

Q: There was an exercise in the reduction of the hours last time – you did what you/Cabinet wanted to do, not what we wanted.

A: Explanation of Library Strategy. This is due to government cuts - we have to think about who we cater for. Government cuts affect services. All hubs are protected; Fairfield is not a hub. This decision was made several years ago. That’s why Thornaby and Roseworth were moved to Children Centres.

Q: Why does Thornaby Library have two libraries?

A: Thornaby has been reduced; it now has two staff as opposed to four. It is open Monday to Friday with one person working. Thornaby Central is open 6 days and is a Town Centre Library.

Q: If the library is demolished what plans are there to use the land?

A: This will be decided after the review.

Q: Can’t we pay a fee – in times of austerity can we not pay for use of ICT?

A: This consultation is looking to save £130k which sees us looking to close two libraries.

Q: You have had three years to market this library – it needs marketing.

A: All forms and views will be taken into account at Cabinet. The Consultation finishes on the 1/7/16 and at the end of this we will pull the report together. Staff consultation will follow after the Cabinet decision. We are currently holding vacant posts open to try and ensure that effects on staff are lessened.

Q: If the site closes will there be discussions around the closure process with us?

Is there a cost regarding redundancy?

A: Yes this is a legal requirement

Q: How many Cabinet members meet on 1/9/16?

Q: How many Fairfield Councillors are there on the Cabinet?

A: None.

Main meeting finished. Egglescliffe Library Consultation Drop in 31/5/16

Facilitators:-

Reuben Kench outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money.

In relation to Egglescliffe Library the proposal is to close the site and for us to take views as to how the library service will be accessed in the future by those living in the Eaglescliffe area.

A report will be put before Cabinet in September based on the findings of the consultation and other comments received. From here Cabinet will make decisions based on the report and information contained therein.

Main points to note

 Spending and refurbishment of Yarm Library

 Any consideration given to the new houses being built in the area and increase in council tax/increase of traffic

 Dates of Cabinet

 Access issues at Yarm due to parking, disabled/elderly struggle with cobbles, bus service not good. Traffic problems in relation to access/egress from Yarm

 Use of volunteers

 Use of site after closure

Q: How do we voice opposition?

A: Complete the consultation form. Q: How are you going to measure the opposition if we all have something to say that isn’t covered in the questions? How is that going to be analysed?

A: We will look at all of the forms received including registering the comments, looking at the % of forms, recording the narrative expressed in relation to x and y, taking critical views into account. We can aggregate the results on the views expressed. The last time that we underwent review we had to record all of the comments received, with everything being written down as it is received. We have already received a considerable number of comments.

Q: Have we knocked the possibility of a shared area on the head?

A: We have explored this since the last review but to no avail. The principal reason for the closure of the site is that it is 0.9 of a mile from Yarm Library.

Q: What happens if you do not have a car? What will disabled people do, as the parking at Yarm is not good and there are problems with the parking?

It is heaving here after school - have you seen it?

Why are you spending so much money on Yarm when there are so many issues with the parking?

Why are we having this meeting if the decision was made in 2011? Yarm will not satisfy our needs.

Q: What are we consulting on? Officers have taken the decision in 2011 to close the service.

A: Cabinet took the decision in relation to the shaping of the service in 2011 - this was to have a network of Town Centre sites supported by integrated libraries. However we were left with two sites that did not integrate – Fairfield and Egglescliffe. We have been looking for areas where this could take place but have been unsuccessful. We do not want to mislead - it is what it is. We said in the 2011 report that we would concentrate the majority of services in our larger sites, but Egglescliffe is the smallest site that we have. We have to recommend how we can make the savings but in doing so we can shape the service if you know how you want to use it. We can use the information provided in the consultation to influence the use of the Mobile and also to consider opening hours locally.

Q: What is the benefit of this to the people of Eaglescliffe? You have already made the decision.

If this site closes what are the savings? Why are you refurbishing Yarm? Why not close Yarm and keep Egglescliffe open?

A: The reason behind the Town Centre approach is that they are better served by transport and parking.

Q: What are the statistics for the use of this site?

A: We don’t have those details with us.

Q: What is the cost of Yarm Library?

A: Yarm is being refurbished due to its proximity to population –more people visit the centre of Yarm and it serves a bigger percentage of people. Not going to get into discussions around the costs of Yarm - we are not recommending the closure of this building to keep Yarm open. The refurbishment has been ongoing prior to this. Q: You get a lot of council tax from this area, especially when the new houses are built - the £40k savings can come from this. Let the council tax collected in Egglescliffe be spent in this area - we have nothing to show for the money the Council takes from us.

You said at the last consultation that Sunday opening at Stockton Library was valid due to the numbers of single parents using the site – that was rubbish.

A: You may have noticed Stockton is no longer open on a Sunday, but it is important that we are open at times that people want to visit, and people visit for a variety of reasons.

Q: This library is used by young and old – why do you need the Mobile Service?

A: The Mobile Library is used to deliver books to villages and care homes. The Public Library Act states that all people should have access to a library service. The Housebound Service is used to deliver books to people who cannot use a library service due to mobility.

Q: Do you not think that smaller areas are just as important as large sites?

A: Our duty is to try to improve and protect the service to the best of our capabilities.

Q: What is the date of the Cabinet? Can we go?

A: Cabinet is in early September – it is open to the public.

Q There has been a lot of money spent on Stockton yet you are withdrawing £40k from Egglescliffe which isn’t a lot of money in the scheme of spends.

Is it worth people putting their objections on these forms? Look at the growth in the area that isn’t being considered.

A: All of the views put forward will be considered. We need to make sure that you express these views and they go to Cabinet. Your views are reasonable in relation to the growth in the area.

We have to make a balance in relation to protecting library services and the staff. Currently we work across ten sites. Within these we have to ensure we keep balanced collections of stock, maintain digital services and deliver events/activities, but we have to make cuts and we need your views to inform decisions that Cabinet make.

Q: I represent the mums and school children that use this library. We will not visit Yarm Library – we won’t get in the car after school to sit in traffic and drive to Yarm to try and park to visit the library. Do you know what the traffic is like going to Yarm at school time? The staff here are wonderful - they know everyone by name and are very helpful.

This is a community – we get nothing for our money, and the Council has sent officers to do councillors jobs. It’s a disgrace. If you had been in the library this afternoon you would have seen children getting books - it was heaving. This is heart-breaking. If we were in an area like Roseworth that is considered as being disadvantaged you wouldn’t be doing this - it would be different if we were on benefits.

A: We will be keeping the vast majority of a comprehensive service – the closure of this site is due to size.

Q: Why is the library at Roseworth being protected when Eaglescliffe is growing as an estate?

A: Roseworth was integrated into a children’s centre as a result of the last review and, as such, the costs are reduced. Q: How much is this a sincere process? I suspect it is a cynical exercise.

A: The recommendation goes along with the strategy from 2011 as previously stated.

Q: The document doesn’t address the use of computers in this site – they are used every day. Not everyone has a PC.

How many books are on the Mobile? This is just one way traffic – you getting money from Eaglescliffe, we get nothing in return.

Scrap the firework display - you have wasted money on the high street, a duck and now a hotel.

This is a mini community centre - old and young come in here to meet. The staff are very good. Have you an understanding of the community of the area? There are issues with the transport into Yarm and access. How are we expected to carry books back?

How can we change the view and keep Egglescliffe open?

A: Respond to the consultation. You have come here tonight to express your views - record these.

Q: Where are the Cabinet? How many are in the Cabinet? Can we go?

A: Anyone can go along to the Cabinet. We also have Council members here who you can speak to.

Q: What will happen to the site?

A: Our colleagues in the Asset Team will consider options for the building if the decision is taken by Cabinet to close the library.

Q: Transport – there is one bus per hour.

Can you not use volunteers?

A: Volunteers are used to support the service – we do not use them to deliver the service. Egglescliffe Library Consultation Drop in 1/6/16

Facilitators:-

JN outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money. Council has a financial plan up to 2020 with a £20 million gap. The savings will be challenging and we have to look at all services across the council. Each service has been given a target of savings to make which will see service changes and them doing things differently. £130k of savings from Library budget and a £100k cut to the Book fund, but it is important to maintain the Book fund. Bulk of the money in the service is paid on staffing.

In relation to Egglescliffe Library the proposal is to close the site and for us to take views as to how the Library Service will be accessed in the future by those living in the Eaglescliffe area.

Main points to consider

 Use of volunteers

 Yarm Library refurbishment

 Yarm High Street Access issues for elderly and disabled

 Traffic congestion

 When is Cabinet?  What support are you putting into the area if we lose the library?

Q: Will the building be turned into flats?

You should close Yarm and keep this site open.

Staff are valued here - they are marvellous.

Why can you not keep the building open using volunteers?

A: We use volunteers to support services and complement the work of paid staff. Volunteers would still need support and training.

Q: Why do you need to buy new books? I see good books being taken out of this library with only a page loose - you could bind the books. You buy too many paperbacks - they don’t last very long.

A: We buy paperbacks as they are cheaper and more cost effective. It is actually cheaper than binding books.

Q: Co- location is just a word for closure. Why don’t you close Stockton Library for a day to save money?

A: Last time we went through a review we invested in Town Centre Libraries and co located sites.

There has been a lot of investment in libraries by this authority – Billingham, Thornaby, we have retained the Mobile and the Housebound and we are investing in Yarm and Ingleby.

Q: Yet you have proposed the closure of Fairfield and Egglescliffe.

A: Egglescliffe is proposed for closure as it is a small library and is close to Yarm Library. Regarding Fairfield, we have been looking for co-location opportunities but nothing has been identified so far.

Q: How do we access a library if the site is not here?

A: We are looking at the Mobile parking in the area.

Q: The Mobile doesn’t get you out. You can meet people in here. I come in three times a week and see around 40 people. I can watch the children.

What have you done re public relations about the site?

A: We have produced posters and leaflets, press releases and social media.

Q: We think this is a political decision and it doesn’t matter what we say. We have Tory councillors. If this had been Roseworth/Hardwick it wouldn’t have happened. What has Egglescliffe got now? Look at the houses being built – it’s ridiculous. Housing always gets rubber-stamped, no questions.

A: We are here in a non-political context and would not comment.

Q: I spent a day making posters to go up at the site and they couldn’t go up. A: We have to be politically neutral. We are interested in making the best from the budget we have left and keeping the best of the service. One third of the Bookfund has been taken as savings already.

Q: Are cuts across all budgets?

A: Yes other services are looking at between 20/25% of savings?

Q: What I don’t understand is the rates keep going up and we get nothing – where is the money going?

A: Central Government grants to the Council have been cut, SBC have increased the rates as far as they could, but it doesn’t cover the gap in funding. To cover the whole gap there would need to be a referendum.

Q: Yarm is not a quality library – you have sold space to NBS and closed this library to develop Yarm which is not accessible. It offers a very poor return. The cobbles on the high street make it inaccessible for disabled people.

If this library was open all week it would be buzzing.

Why can’t you close Stockton and make those users travel to other sites?

A: We have to maintain one large library that backs up the other sites regarding stock, staffing and services.

This site was never as busy as Yarm. There is a requirement to save money across libraries with £130k coming from the budget, if not here, somewhere else. We need a balanced budget.

Q: Who makes the decisions? What will happen to the staff?

A: Decisions will be up to the elected members on Cabinet. Regarding the staffing - we will be looking at a full staff restructure including senior staff and managers. Looking at how we accommodate staff, we are retaining vacancies to minimise the impact on staff and to reduce the need for redundancies.

Q: I run two reading groups - one at Yarm and one at Egglescliffe, but having done what you have to Yarm Library, why doesn’t it have space for the reading group to come back to the site?

A: We designed the site to be flexible. Ladies from the knitting and reading group attended the preview event and were advised that they are welcome to return to the site. We can reposition the shelving and are looking at purchasing lightweight tables to use.

Q: What will happen to the building?

A: The building will be handed over to the Asset Team of the Council and they will consider future options.

Q: What made the service parcel the meeting room off to Newcastle Building Society?

A: It will bring a different audience into the site. We want people to use the service. The income which comes into the service will go towards the savings. This will help staff to keep jobs.

Q: Have you looked at the high quality assets in the community? What support will be put into these community assets? A: We are looking at putting the Mobile into the area - this will have 5,000 books.

Q: Villagers use this library and use the Mobile, but using the Mobile isn’t the same as coming to a library. Schools and parents bring their children to the library - they don’t go to Yarm. What good is a 20 minute stop?

A: If the Mobile is used, the stops will be longer than 20 minutes.

Q: Who makes the decision?

A: The lead officer will write the report, including all of the consultation comments. It will include recommendations, and the Cabinet will make the decision based on:

 Any identified options

 Consultation results

 Community Impact Assessment

Q: What about the ICT facilities, as people have to do things online?

A: We are looking at providing adequate resources at Yarm Library. There is a queue for the computers when the library opens and concern has been raised that there are no computers on the Mobile, so people will have to travel to Yarm Library.

Q: Is there information on running costs for this site?

A: Staff £20k and building £17/20k.

Q: The consultation document doesn’t include the running costs which someone would need if they were looking to save the site.

A: The information could be found on the asset register the Council holds.

Q: How many people live in Egglescliffe? What are the projected population numbers? If everyone paid £1 on their Council tax we could keep the site going.

A: We cannot charge for the Library service.

Q: To you this is about losing a library but to us it is losing a community. You spend on the Globe, Yarm and the High Street. This is public money spent unnecessarily. It should be spent on keeping buildings and staff.

A: The money comes from two separate areas (Capital and Revenue explained). Yarm is a capital project.

Stockton Library has a good network of libraries. We cannot take £20 million out of the budget without impact on services.

The Cabinet Member reiterated that we are here to listen to people, and encouraged individuals to complete the consultation forms. Egglescliffe Library Consultation Drop in 22/6/16

Facilitators:-

JN outlined the review and reasons for the requirements to save money, including the Library Strategy. Currently there are proposals to close Egglescliffe and Fairfield Libraries unless a co- location opportunity can be found for Fairfield Library. There is a £20 million shortfall in Council budgets due to cuts in funding from Government - reviews are taking place across all departments within the Council and over the next two years you will start to see a lot of changes to the way the Council delivers its services.

This is your opportunity to relay your opinions to us and for us to clarify the situation for you. There are two ways to do this – complete a survey document either online or in paper format and to attend the meetings we have arranged. We are still retaining the main structure of the service including the Mobile and online services; we need to know from you where you will access library services- that information will help us plan for the future. The consultation finishes on 1/7/16 and we have received a lot of completed surveys to date. Details of the consultation will be included in the final report as appendices alongside all other comments received. Cabinet will meet to consider the report and will base their decisions on the report presented. This will include Impact Assessments which contain ward information for the area.

Main points to consider

 General view is it is a foregone conclusion

 Access issues re Yarm due to traffic and parking for disabled and young families

 Public transport is an issue – 1 bus an hour

 Loss of a community facility

 Infrastructure of the area due to new housing

 Council spends – duck, hotel, high street etc

Q: This seems to be a foregone conclusion, a done deal. This meeting is just a ratification of the decision. What about people in wheelchairs? You cannot push people up and down the hill. There is no real bus service. Also what about ladies with prams?

A: Part of the Impact assessment will look at this and what we do to try and meet the needs of everyone. The Mobile Library has a lift which will aid people with access requirements. There is also a Housebound Service.

Q: That is not the same as visiting a library – we want to keep visiting a library. Since Katherine came here to work this library has come to life. You have old and young accessing the site. We can see the children picking books and drawing in the junior library - it’s a pleasure to be in.

Egglescliffe is growing – there will be a lot of new houses, lots of families with children. It will be a huge issue. People cannot trek into Yarm, the traffic will be horrendous. There are three schools locally. This site has good parking.

A: These are unprecedented times - we are trying to ensure that the service can cater for as many people as possible.

Q: There are no buses to take us into Yarm – one an hour.

A: We have to stretch the budget as far as we can to meet community needs.

Q: There are lots of houses being built – can you not go to the builders for money?

A: It would be one off money – this as about saving money from the budget that the library spends year on year.

Q: What are the annual costs?

A: Between £30k and £40k.

Q: That’s a drop in the ocean; surely the council could save that money somewhere else. What will happen to the site? You will have to pay to keep the site maintained until it is sold.

A: If the decision is taken to close the site it will not close immediately - we will have to empty it. Once we are out of the site the building will be handed over to Land and Property and consideration will be given to future use options. These monies are only part of the savings - we have reduced the Bookfund by £100k and will be making additional staffing reductions.

Q: If the council is so strapped why would you spend £6k on a duck?

Council has money to spend on building a hotel – there should be no public money spent on a hotel.

Is this a done deal? Do you take into account the people in this room or is it just a tick box exercise? So many people feel strongly about this. Yarm is a nightmare for people with buggies and wheelchairs. People come to the shops here when they visit the library and vice- versa. We feel strongly about this. You need to be upfront.

A: This is not a done deal – the Council needs to decide. As officers we have to look at how we reduce the budget and how to make required savings.

Q: A lot people here are mostly older people as most of the younger people are at school. This represents only one section of the community.

A: We have held other sessions prior to this.

Q: Has anyone seen the loneliness programme that James Martin is delivering? This library has all of the things that people talk about in that programme- people come to chat, different ages mix, people like to come here and just be in the library speaking to each other. This isn’t about the library, this is about community.

It’s good to hear you will be doing an impact assessment. Yarm is not accessible for older people or young families. Hopefully you will get all of the details re the area in terms of impact as this is not just about books - it’s about community. Visiting the library is the only social interaction that a lot of people get around here. There is a wider impact to Social Care budgets if this library closes.

When I first came to live here people on the estate could see the Cleveland Hills and now there is building everywhere. I am nearly 90 and I love coming here. I can get the car out and know I can get parked when I get here. I love coming to this library. I can get my large print here and the staff are marvellous. The council are making us get a bus which runs once an hour. There will be more traffic going into Yarm. It would be a disaster to close this site.

You are wasting money on other things. I have paid my council tax for all of these years. I walked to the schools. I have good friends. This is hopeless. There will be a terrible accident in Yarm due to traffic.

Why are you building a multi-million pound library in Yarm?

A: Yarm is not costing a million pounds, and we are refurbishing it in line with the library strategy.

Q: Could you not have more libraries open less hours and spread the cost?

A: It is better to concentrate more services in one place. Cost effective.

Q: There is an estimated £.5million in extra council tax coming into this area and we would hope the money would be spent here.

One of the justifications in relation to closing this site is the proximity to Yarm Library. There are lots of houses in the Egglescliffe area that are more than a mile away from the Library and this will increase with the new builds - has this been considered? A: This is one of the reasons we have the Mobile Library so that we can deliver the library to areas that are not close the static libraries. It plugs the gaps in service.

Q: Stockton Council is spending £2million on the Globe - it’s outrageous.

A: Taking money from one area into another doesn’t solve the problem. We have to look at ways of saving money from the library budget. All other service areas are looking at making savings.

Q: Are you looking at spreading the impact across all libraries or just here?

A: Explanation of the Library Strategy. Advised we are looking at staffing as most of the costs are here. £100k has been removed from the book fund.

Q: Where will staff go?

A: Staff will undergo a restructure after Cabinet decision. We have frozen recruitment to posts at the moment which will allow staff to apply for vacant positions depending on the restructure. Staff review will cover all posts including Senior Managers and Librarians.

Q: Couldn’t you look at volunteers working with staff?

A: Volunteers complement our services, but people don’t want to work 37 hours - this will end up with more people running the site. A good example of this is Great Ayton. A volunteer manager would need to be employed.

Q: Are you in a position to look at where the Council places its reserves?

A: I think you are getting confused between Capital, Revenue and Reserves.

Q: Have you thought about raising income from the site – a tea room?

A: There would need to be a viable business proposition.

Q: Great Ayton do this – you could take the building on yourself.

What happens when the building is empty?

A: If the decision is taken to close the building, it won’t close overnight, it will take a while. The Assets Department within the council will look at options for the site.

Q: When is the building closing?

A: Not known - no decision yet.

Petitions are always considered by members - the details will be included in the report.

JN explained the pulling together of the report.

Q: There are 8 schools within this area and one representative of one of them. I come every day and sit, I listen to the children. They return piles of books and are allowed to stamp their own book and get stickers. The staff here interact with the children. I have had my life and enjoyed libraries immensely and its company for me. A bus is no good – I can drive. I have access problems but I can walk in to here but not to Yarm.

This is a wonderful library to close.