Alert: This Is a Formal Class on Principals Underlying the Torah As Found in the Classic s1

Alert: This is a formal class on principals underlying the Torah as found in the classic text, Derech Hashem. Questions should be related to the text - limit to 30 seconds each Class is each Wednesday nights at 9pm eastern. lnfo found at www.yashanet.com/derech Isibel: Shalom Yehoshua YehoshuaBA: shalom Isibel: Its actually part of tonights discussion

Isibel: Isibel: those ideas BlkPraiseAngel: really cool Isibel: 1 BlkPraiseAngel: 1 BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Yehoshua BlkPraiseAngel: good point BEHANU: why wasnt it murder would be the question? BEHANU: easy to say He didnt ... but there they are all dead at His hand BlkPraiseAngel: he implied God was sinning though BlkPraiseAngel: ty BEHANU: I guess the question is if the Torah shows us the image of G-d and says dont murder - how can G-d take out innocent children etc? BlkPraiseAngel: yes BlkPraiseAngel: low BlkPraiseAngel: 1 Taz_Aharon: right kennya_5: Is it murder if he ends a life Taz_Aharon: right isibel BlkPraiseAngel: but is it murder from HaShem perspective? BEHANU: It is only murder on the part of G-d if you create a god according to your personal philosophy BEHANU: I should say 'if you define G-d ..." BlkPraiseAngel: I personally don't think HaShem murders luminous_spirit: just peekin' in (missed y'all) BlkPraiseAngel: but it hard to explain when He says don't murder and yet many people were murdered in his name BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Luminous Taz_Aharon: right luminous_spirit: shalom Angel BEHANU: angel - do you mean instances in Torah where it says G-d took them out - or religious zealots through history? BlkPraiseAngel: in scriptures luminous_spirit: in the middle a somethin elsewhere, but will try to pop back in later BEHANU: ok BlkPraiseAngel: when Israel was coming into the land BEHANU: right luminous_spirit: shalom everyone, Isibel, Behanu kennya_5: is it murder when people are destroyed at the end in the lake of fire? Taz_Aharon: hashem is subject to nothing BEHANU: Yes it is hard to figure BlkPraiseAngel: yes BlkPraiseAngel: true BlkPraiseAngel: physical laws? BlkPraiseAngel: ty kennya_5: I thought the commandments were a emination of the essence of who HaShem is. Only a emination. Which is beyond us and yet arrests our hearts BEHANU: Torah is there for us to rectify our souls ... 613 ways G-d gave us to connect with us ... G-d not needing rectification thus cannot be on the recipient end of the Torah's benefits BlkPraiseAngel: shalom BCWoman BEHANU: (to connect with Him - correction) BCWoman61: just stopped in to let you all know I was switched to Levequin today and am totally exhausted, so can't stay for the study. BlkPraiseAngel: ok so Torah is for man BCWoman61: hey Angel Isibel: I have to figure out how to play music with my new headset BEHANU: my 2 cents - i am leaving it to the instructor to better explain! Isibel: LOL BlkPraiseAngel: lol Behanu BEHANU: hi BC Isibel: I dont know if that helped BCWoman61: hint Isibel, the headset doesn't play the music, the computer cpu does

BEHANU: haha Isibel: and please ask for me to clarify points that dont make sense Isibel: BC, oh TY Isibel: LOL Isibel: Yes

Isibel: Isibel: yvw Isibel: Shalom Sherry BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Sherryr BlkPraiseAngel: wb Kennya BCWoman61: ok, so take care all, I will dream of you while I rest. Think up good questions for Isibel. Teachers need to stretch too Isibel: LOL Isibel: Shalom BC sherryr: Shalom BPA and all kennya_5: Is torah truth or is God truth? YehoshuaBA: yes kenya Isibel: sound? YehoshuaBA: no Isibel: ok kennya_5: no sherryr: 2 Isibel: I even got new music for tonight too BlkPraiseAngel: no one on mic BEHANU: Remember the old 'technical difficulties' screen that would come up on TV? LOL Isibel: and now I cant play it BlkPraiseAngel: lol kennya_5: LOL BEHANU: When WAS the last time you saw that screen on TV anyhow? kennya_5: 2 Isibel: I will have to figue it out Isibel: why BEHANU: 1 sec - we be fixin this kennya_5: I been going in and out of the room thinking I was having trouble. BEHANU: we're messin with ya kennya BlkPraiseAngel: wb Kennya BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Ms Janice Isibel: No I usually play music kennya_5: I know I know Isibel: but I cant get my computer to play music with my ne headset kennya_5: I am calling 911 right now Isibel: new Isibel: LOL janice64: ((blkpraiseangel)) janice64: is there sound YehoshuaBA: no BEHANU: 1 sec BEHANU: we fixin janice64: ok Isibel: Its so close to the room starting I will skip that kennya_5: shur hanu you are fixin janice64: while we wait i have a question kennya_5: LOL Isibel: Please Isibel: ga janice64: does idolatry elevate the ego resulting in racisim sherryr: 1 BlkPraiseAngel: catholics? Alert: An admin joined the room: David_42 kennya_5: janice64 if a person thinks he is better than another he idolizes himself and is racist depite color of skin tstudy84: shalom tstudy84: everybody LevEchad: Shalom Strider_100: shalom guys janice64: treating people like they are trash i.e. calling people deragatory slurs for poor illiterates janice64: i am wondering wot causes people to be so mean BlkPraiseAngel: shalom LevEchad day of remenbrance12: is their a link BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Strider kennya_5: self rightness Janice BlkPraiseAngel: shalom 4AllTruth BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Home Row home row: Shalom BP BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Day of remenbrance12 day of remenbrance12: shalom room janice64: thanks isibel all A D A M_3: sorry im late...... page please A D A M_3: ty A D A M_3: so the objects in the temple service must have had a very high level? A D A M_3: what is the meaning of the word...... theurgy? janice64: sound?? A D A M_3: good sound sherryr: 1 janice64: theugy = miracle A D A M_3: Divine or supernatural intervention in human affairs. 2. The performance of miracles with supernatural assistance. 3 kennya_5: good night got to go A D A M_3: right focus? sparkle_zzirf: goodnight kenya

A D A M_3: we are waiting for bruce to come back so he can ask the questions tstudy84: lol janice64: no question but this explains alot from genesis Strider_100: gtg ...up in a few hours Strider_100: tks for the room janice64: necromancy A D A M_3: this seems like one of those sectons.....that need much more time to understand.... janice64: miracles can result by sorcery BEHANU: id say that is magicc janice A D A M_3: have a question...... A D A M_3: hand up over there...... Isibel: 1 sherryr: 1 Isibel: yes day of remenbrance12: balam is the greatest..prophet of the gentiles janice64: wot ever moses did the and the sorcerers of pharoh did the same things A D A M_3: he did sacerfices...... understood methods. tstudy84: Ramban says sorcery is done by destructive angels and demons Taz_Aharon: day, id say abraham was Taz_Aharon: in the end he blesses A D A M_3: well...... id say the results of balaams intent has prevailed over the hebrews...... for ages and ages mikael_239: exuse me mikael_239: i just heard that when the temple is rebuilt there will be a reinstitution of tanimal sacrifices ? i s that true i very upset Alert: mikael_239 reddotted by: BEHANU A D A M_3: mikael.... this is a study tstudy84: whats so bad about the sacrifices janice64: Deuteronomy 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; janice64: Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your janice64: even if a prophet gives a sign that happens but want you to worship idols G-d says not to listen David_42: mikael: study Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48. It's God's word. Isibel: Impure suorces Isibel: sources anninmiss: hello and shalom BlkPraiseAngel: shalom Annnnnnnnnn anninmiss: blkpraiseangel tstudy84: he tells them to rebel against Torah A D A M_3: adulity with other gods. janice64: it seems seduction is always a tool used to lead someone into sin janice64: omg

BEHANU: other than the golden calf A D A M_3: its in the battle that we can get stronger...... ? A D A M_3: faced his brother A D A M_3: is there any significences of earlymorning prayer? janice64: ty isibel Isibel: your welcome ty A D A M_3: is this praying ourloud? A D A M_3: out* A D A M_3: you said to keep the body busy as the spirit connect...... ? anninmiss: shalom janice64: is this unity with G-d sparkle_zzirf: Is that a commandment to keep your body busy while we connect in spirit? A D A M_3: i understand that unity can only come with striving to be like...... take on HIS ways....etc... sparkle_zzirf: thank you - finding all this so new for me A D A M_3: isibel...... how do you think we can connect with GOD? sparkle_zzirf: I'd like to hear the answer to that BEHANU: aam at 300 baud

A D A M_3: I hhave time...... sparkle_zzirf: I do not understand how you can misuse an object. A D A M_3: <<< pushes behanu back in the drawer...... lockes it too. BEHANU: toss the key too A D A M_3: yeap.... good idea A D A M_3: she spoke earlier...... to understand the spiritual significences of objects...... other living things.... to know what their purposes is...... sparkle_zzirf: how can the physical effect the spiritual - spiritual rules, no? sparkle_zzirf: like what? A D A M_3: i believe our spiritual is effected by our choices...... sparkle_zzirf: I like bacon janice64: moses made a serpent the purpose was to heal those who looked at it...some misused it and worshipped it sparkle_zzirf: do you bring animal sacrifices Isibel? BEHANU: her cats live in fear tstudy84: lol sherryr: lolol Behanu sparkle_zzirf: I thought it was all spiritual not physical - I was not kidding, I want to know A D A M_3: according to HIS purposes for them...... is what HE gives them.....? janice64: i thought the goal of torah was messiah tstudy84: ty Isibel BEHANU: what does that mean janice? home row: the 'goal' of Torah is show us how to live with each other janice64: following the commands would bring us to messiah BEHANU: if mashiach is the ultimate tzadik which is someone living in the (torah) image of G-d, then yes the goal of Torah is to be like that BEHANU: "bring us to messiah" = ? paudan: JUst out of curiosity.....whay this jewish room is placed within the cristian rooms? paudan: I mean in Pal BEHANU: It is Bible study paudan: ok BEHANU: Lots of christians looking to get more out of their spiritual life paudan: ok janice64: Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. BEHANU: It would fit quite well in the jewish section too paudan: ok, thanks sparkle_zzirf: So what is a Jewish christian? janice64: not sure wot you mean behanu BEHANU: an oxymoron? BEHANU: janice i asked what that means sparkle_zzirf: I don't know what oxymoron means paudan: there is no such a thing as a jewish christian... sparkle_zzirf: oh janice64: i know sparkle sparkle_zzirf: a Hebrew Christian? BEHANU: citing the NT is just reading words - what does it mean according to torah? janice64: i think obey torahs lead us to messiah paudan: THere might be an Israeli christian, but not a jewish christian BEHANU: leads us to be like him? janice64: you want a tanak reference sparkle_zzirf: Are people here Hebrew Christians or messianic jews? BEHANU: people here are whatever they are BEHANU: no requirements sparkle_zzirf: You put it in the Christian Rooms janice64: Deuteronomy 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, tstudy84: I'm a Torah searcher, sparkle sherryr: I'm a Torah observant believer in Messiah Yeshua BEHANU: tstudy - well said sparkle_zzirf: I didn't know you could do both without contradiction till this group BEHANU: seeking to learn torah in its historical religious context sparkle_zzirf: Most Jews I know reject Christ paudan: Sparkle, it is a contradiction sparkle_zzirf: it is a contradiction? well I thought this room did both janice64: debrim 30 says when all the things in the torah happen then they would return and obey G-d..isn't that where israel is at BEHANU: this room is about torah David_42: Christ is just a Greek word for Messiah paudan: Jews dont reject Christ.... as a person...BUt they do not beleive that he is the Messiah janice64: arent we waiting for the return of messiah paudan: We are wyting for the FIRST arrival of the Messiah BEHANU: we are learning fundamentals of torah ... something totally lacking for the most part paudan: not for th ereturn sparkle_zzirf: Torah is same as Old Testament anyway paudan: Firts and Last, when the messiah come, is said in the torah that the world will end A D A M_3: isibel...... your doing great... sparkle_zzirf: thanks but I guess I am confused BEHANU: "torah" involves more than just the words we read in the 'old test' - it has an understanding and deeper meanings to it paudan: Isibel, I agree, you are very learned BEHANU: sparkle -- do you have the derech hashem book? sparkle_zzirf: It always had had a deeper meaning David_42: The Roman Catholic Church made Yeshua (Jesus) into something that the New Testament rejects. sparkle_zzirf: that is not new BEHANU: would be a good start to get that book sparkle_zzirf: I have been looking for it online with not too much postage sparkle_zzirf: Well lyes the Roman Catholic church did paudan: The little I know about Rabbi Moshe Haim Luzzato, he never deviated from the believe that the Messiah still did not come BEHANU: correct paudan BEHANU: he is 'orthodox' sherryr: (Rev 14:12) Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,1 here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yeshua .<< not a contradiction paudan: As we still do BEHANU: To know mashiach is to know torah which is what ramchal does BEHANU: Gives me an idea for a bumper sticker ... paudan: Sheery you are cutoing from the New Testament, its not coneted to Torah paudan: connected BEHANU: "Know Ramchal, Know Mashiach - No Ramchal, No Mashiach" LOL sherryr: In your opinion paudan

BEHANU: this is not a nt debate room - why many like it paudan: Sherry, is very simple... It is written, that when Messiah comes, the world will end, the dead will raise...Nothing like that happened as of yet sparkle_zzirf: Ok - I well I guess that is why I am here - the only problem I have is what to do with Yeshua Ben Joseph sherryr: ok Behanu

BEHANU: sparkle - get the book BEHANU: its a good start tstudy84: Actually some people, Behanu, say: Know Torah, Know Yeshua; No Torah, No Yeshua sparkle_zzirf: I think that would be a very good thing for me to do too BEHANU: I was making a play on that t sparkle_zzirf: I was lead to this room janice64: sparkle do you think jesus is messiah ben yosef sparkle_zzirf: I did, then I didn't, then I did kabbalah and forgot, what is next? paudan: Isabel, I reaally like your topics, and you seem to know a lot BEHANU: We try to keep this room on Tanakh as foundational A D A M_3: and NO PERSONAL QUESTIONS...... please sparkle_zzirf: that is true Isibel and wise janice64: behanu, i think devarim 30 assures the jewish people that even though they are in exile one day they will repent and be gathered to israel..messiah is the expectation of every believing jew today janice64: why wouldn't messiah be the goal of torah BEHANU: i believe with perfect faith in mashiach - and though he tarry ... etc BEHANU: article 12 of the 13 points of faith via rambam Isibel: I would ask what does that mean? The goal of Torah is ultimatly to connect to our Creator Isibel: The Moshiach has the same purpose janice64: behanu what was G-ds goal when he gave the torah BEHANU: exactly - the fundaments first ... it's about Hashem Isibel: to connect humainity to its Creator i sparkle_zzirf: I am not trying to be hard to get along with - my intentions are to ask questions for understanding where you are coming from, not to cause dissent BEHANU: janice - isibel just iterated that Isibel: I wasnt adressing you my apologies BEHANU: Hashem gave us 613 ways to connect with him -- 613 little gifts

BEHANU: i posted that about an hour ago janice64: and messiah is how G-d bridges the gap paudan: Janice, you are distorting it a little...actually one of the conditions for the MEssiah to cam, is for all the jews to return to israel... THere is nothing to repent about...and Jews are not in exile..They acn go to live to Israel whenwver they choose too sparkle_zzirf: thanks for passing on the names of good books BEHANU: it is still considered the final exile by rabbis Isibel: I have a great quote about Torah I am trying to find janice64: really paudan janice64: we don't have world peacae janice64: peace* BEHANU: my reading list ... http://www.yashanet.com/reading.htm janice64: all israel hasn't been restored paudan: Yes , some Rabbis that do not recognize Israel, you can see them on CNN arm to arm with the Iranian president sparkle_zzirf: you can say that again BEHANU: I did not mean that paudan BEHANU: I meant traditional sources consider the current situation extention of roman exile paudan: what did u mean Beahanu? BEHANU: go to chabad, aish, etc paudan: could you name some of those sources?