FJ Bruce Larson -BL

Francis A. Johnson Narrator

Bruce Larson Interviewer

July 24, 1973

Francis A. Johnson -FJ Bruce Larson -BL

BL: First of all you mentioned that your father was born in Sweden. I'm just wondering what he may have told you about those years in Sweden. Do you remember anything in particular? FJ: Well, he often mentioned about his father, who was a sea captain on that large lake, Lake Vanern, largest lake in Sweden, and that he was gone for a month at a time. In other words, it took a month to make a trip, the trip that he made on the lake. Of course, his mother died when he was twelve, I believe, and his father died when he was seventeen. Then he went to work in the Liljedal Glassworks in that town... BL: Do you think his political thinking was influenced by his experiences in Sweden? Had he ever mentioned that? FJ: Well, not so much from his early life in Sweden, I think he was nineteen years old when he left there, but his life was molded mostly after he come to America. With cutting wood on the farm and hauling it twelve miles to the county seat to sell it to get money to live on, he used to organize the wood haulers to get a better price for their wood. And they would wait til late in the day to sell their wood, holding out for a better price. Then, of course, they'd have to unload it and go home whether they got a better price or not. That's how he got started really in politics. Then in 1914 his neighbors and friends elected him to the Minnesota legislature and reelected him in 1916 and elected him to the state senate in the state legislature in 1918. BL: And of course he was in sympathy with the old Nonpartisan League. FJ: Yes. Well, then of course [A. C.] Townley, he got acquainted with Townley and… BL: Did he know Townley well? FJ: Oh, yes. I even used to drive the car for Townley when he went through these towns. He was talking on the loudspeaker and I drove the car. He used to campaign with my father a lot. BL: Did Townley ever fly into here, do you remember? FJ: No, no, I don't ever remember of Townley flying. That was pretty much ahead of the airplane. Lindbergh and the boy, of course, that was coming in about that time, too, you know.

Then Dad was in the Minnesota state legislature. He fought for a lot of things that become a reality later on, but they were called radical in those days, you know. There were eight members of the Minnesota state senate they called the radicals. Dad, if I'm not badly mistaken, was the first man running for office statewide that had a plank in his platform calling for a bank guaranty law. Well, the bankers, Dad claimed there was only about a dozen bankers in all of Minnesota that voted for him because they didn't want the government telling them how to run their business and so on. And of course today we know the banks wouldn't be possible without having a bank guaranty law because all it would take would be a child going up the sidewalk in town and telling them everybody's drawing their money out of the bank. That's all it would take to close the bank unless they had a bank guaranty law. That was one of the things my father fought for. He also fought for law prohibiting use of oleomargarine in state institutions. Well, in those days that was called radicalism, anything of that kind. It wasn’t long before it was the law of the land. BL: Of course, he was a dairy farmer himself. FJ: Yeah, he was a dairy farmer himself. BL: How did he stand on cooperatives? FJ: Well, he helped organize the cooperatives all over this part of the United States. He traveled extensively in North Dakota and Minnesota and some in Wisconsin. He helped organize dozens of elevators and creameries and so forth. BL: You mentioned to me earlier when talking about Lindbergh a year or so ago, that your father was influenced you felt a little bit perhaps by old Lindbergh on banking. You felt he read some of his ideas... FJ: Oh, yes. Lindbergh and Dad were good friends. They were closely associated in politics, the two of them. BL: How would you compare your father and Townley, for example, as campaigners? You've mentioned you traveled with both of them. FJ: Well, they were together in politics. They thought pretty much the same. Of course, Townley was... talk about Dad being radical, Townley was much more radical. BL: Why do you say that? FJ: I claim Townley was one of these guys that thought about twenty years ahead of the average man during his lifetime. Townley and of course Lindbergh and George Loftus and several others, they thought pretty much the same in politics. BL: What issues particularly, when you say you thought Townley was more radical than your father, what were you thinking of? FJ: Well, Dad... they all... they thought that the farmers should have a fair price for his products, and Dad always fought in Congress, too, later on, that the price of something should be set, at least there should be a floor set so things couldn't go down too low. Well, they told him in

Congress they said that price fixing would never work. That's just what they told him and it was out of the question to get price set on farm produce at the time that my father was there. But he was fighting for that then. Of course, a lot of that become reality later on. BL: What about campaign style? Now, you traveled with your dad. Can you describe, say, a typical campaign trip with your father and the kind of speaker he was and what you did on those campaigns? FJ: Well, I drove the car for him lots of times. Father was nearsighted and he didn't like to drive at night especially. So I drove the car for him. He was always held up, of course, after the meetings when we tried to go home, see. Well, the speeches that he made was his old farm speeches. He just spoke his mind, you know, about the issues that he thought was in the best interest of the people, and against big business. BL: Well, I'm wondering, too, and I think you told me once; he liked to inject humor occasionally. What sort of things might he refer to in addition to his basic issues? FJ: Well, when Dad was United States Senator, he was a moss-back farmer living ten miles from a railroad, in the sticks, you might say, and he went to United States Senate in 1923, elected at a special election so the time being was in the summer time and it was an extraordinary election for the United States Senate that was held in the summer time. No one else running. And as I understand it, it was the first time that it was ever broadcast over the radio, nationwide. And, as a matter of fact listening to the returns that night is the first time I ever did listen to a radio. We had to go to our county seat to listen. There was only two of them in the county seat town of Litchfield at that time. And then, of course, he got elected and went on to the United States Senate. He fought for the farmers' rights, for a square deal for the farmers. In those days the farmers were not getting a square deal. He was also invited to speak at the Gridiron Dinner, highest social event held in the nation, as I understand it. It happened so our President died a week after Dad was elected Senator and so Calvin Coolidge then being Vice President, automatically became President. And the new President was also invited to the Gridiron Dinner as speaker, as was my father. There were many other Senators there that could have been asked to speak but Dad, being a new Senator, and the second one ever elected on the Farmer-Labor auspices, was invited to speak. Dad told his old- time speech there. One phrase he used was "give the farmer a square deal", and what he meant by that was one rabbit and one horse in making baloney and so forth. Well, as it turned out, the new President, he was the last speaker, of course, and when he got up and he referred to Magnus Johnson in his speech. And that kind of got several of the other Senators jealous because the President speaking about the new Senator's talk and so forth. BL: Did he ever campaign in Swedish? Use the language? FJ: Oh, no, no. Well, he might have said a few sentences just for fun, you know. He used to tell about my oldest sister. She married a Pancake and it wasn't long before they had four little Pancakes. He used to get that off in speeches and so forth. He married an English girl when he come over here which turned out to be my mother, and we always talked English at home because Dad wanted to learn to talk English and Mother didn't care to learn to talk Swede so we talked English in the home.

BL: Actually your mother was his second wife, is that right? FJ: Yes. Mother was his second wife. His first wife was a Swede girl. She died soon afterward with her firstborn child, they died almost together. BL: And then there were three boys and three girls in your family? FJ: Yeah, three boys and three girls. BL: Just before he ran in 1923, again I am thinking of Lindbergh, you told me that Lindbergh had approached your father to stay out of that campaign, when [Knute] Nelson died? FJ: Well, yes. I heard my father one day talking about it. You see, Lindbergh had been Farmer- Labor candidate for Governor earlier. BL: Well, Nonpartisan League, really, 1918… FJ: Yeah, yeah, that was ahead of the Farmer-Labor party. BL: But it's the same group that… FJ: Yeah, that's what it was. The Nonpartisan League thought they could gain the power for the farmers and the laboring people, the common people in other words, by endorsing either the Democrat or the Republican. But it didn't work out so then they organized the Farmer-Labor party. I overheard my Dad saying one time that Lindbergh had said, “Well, I thought that I was to be candidate for Senator and you would become the candidate for Governor." Well, Dad, of course... BL: Assuming this is in '24, then? FJ: This is assuming when the special election was coming up. BL: Right. FJ: Dad had been the Farmer-Labor candidate for Governor, see, in '22 and he almost took it. The day after election he was leading in returns as they came in, but then he lost out by less than 15,000 votes, 14,000 - some votes. BL: Right. FJ: And then Lindbergh, thinking that Father come so close to being Governor, that Dad should have waited and run again, because the man who defeated him, being Governor Preus, he was running for his second term then and people thought that if he had not been running for his second term, why then Dad would have got elected. Some people thought that he was entitled to a second term and therefore voted for him. But then the next election, it were only a year hence, why Lindbergh thought Dad should have stayed out of the Senatorial fight and run for Governor because he'd have an awful good chance of being elected Governor. But I don't know what endorsement he got at that time, but anyway he filed for United States Senator, seeing the Preus

4 filed and Preus was the man that beat him for Governor, he was now running for United States Senate at this special election, and so Dad filed, too. BL: In the Farmer-Labor primary? FJ: Yeah, that didn't sit too good with Lindbergh, I imagine, so that's one reason why Lindbergh said what he did. But then there was also another man, you know, Mayor Fritsche of New Ulm, of German descent, he also filed and Father got excited. I know one morning he was milking the cows and he said, "By golly, two Swedes are now running against one German." So he was afraid he might not get the nomination due to the fact that the Swedes would be divided between him and Lindbergh, you know, Lindbergh being world famous, you might say, even then being a member of the United States Congress and then candidate for Governor at previous campaign, and so forth. So Dad left then, went out campaigning. But as it turned out Dad had more votes than the other two put together, as I understand. BL: Well, he beat them quite substantially. I don't think it was quite that many. FJ: Do you know? How did it turn out? BL: I've got the book somewhere. I've forgotten actually, though. FJ: I kind of think he did… if I'm not mistaken. I could be mistaken though. BL: I could tell you. I'll send that to you. Then your dad ran after that in 1924, having been elected to the Senate in '23, then he lost to Schall in '24, I guess. FJ: Well, yes, then, of course, he run for the regular term, which holds over for six years, and that would have meant a lot more money than he'd ever seen before. But then he got defeated and it cost him a lot in this campaign, too, because he spoke to forty different county fairs in that campaign. BL: What do you think defeated him in '24? FJ: Well, one reason why, this opponent, Tom Schall, had been in Congress and he was blind. He was blind so I think that probably was the reason. Nobody probably will ever know... that's what happened anyway. And then of course, then in '26, I think Dad run for Governor in '26. BL: That's correct, against [Theodore] Christianson. FJ: Yeah, against Christianson. Christianson and him entered the Minnesota legislature, the house of representatives, on the same day, as I understand it. And he was defeated by Christianson. And then it went on, of course, until '32. We lost a Congressman then in '32 and then it was a free-for-all over the state, you know, they run at-large. There was ninety-one persons filed for Congress and Father received the largest vote of any of them. The nine highest Farmer-Laborites, the nine highest Republicans and the nine highest Democrats being nominated in the primary ran in the fall general election of course, and Father also received the highest vote then.

BL: Did he support Franklin Roosevelt during that term in Congress in the thirties? FJ: Oh, yes, I'm sure he did. BL: That would be the early part of the New Deal. FJ: I don't recall any outstanding instances that might have happened but I'm sure that he did [support Roosevelt] because he was sick of Republicans. One reason why I think my father got defeated for reelection for the six year term as Senator, because it was the year, I'm quite sure that it was the year that La Follette ran as an independent for President and that had to split up the vote some way and so… BL: Did your father openly support La Follette? FJ: I remember my father speaking of that, that if La Follette hadn't been running that time that he might have got reelected. BL: Did he support La Follette for the Presidency? FJ: Oh, absolutely. La Follette and Father, they were fighting for the same things in the United States Senate. BL: Did he speak of his support for La Follette in the campaign? FJ: Oh, yes, you bet your life he did, yeah. Yeah, he thought the world of him. And he also thought the world of George Norris of Nebraska. Although George Norris was a Republican, but… BL: He was a Progressive, though. FJ: Yeah, but he… you might say was a progressive, that's right. BL: Did your dad use the term "progressive", think of himself as a progressive? FJ: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. He followed the others… Speaking on cooperatives and organizing cooperatives, Father was one of the prime movers of the Tennessee Valley Authority, which probably there'd never been if it hadn't been for Senator Norris. And he fought for that and then, of course, big business they didn't want the government being in business at all. The district that Father represented is the district that he was put in when he had to run for reelection to Congress, that was the St. Cloud district of Minnesota. And St. Cloud had the highest electric rate in the nation. They had some water power there, too, so it shouldn't ought a had to been that way. But if a poor farmer living over here some where’s wanted electricity in that district that Dad was put in after they did reapportion, why they had the highest electric rate. And if a farmer wanted electricity, he'd have to pay fifty dollars for every pole to get to his place. BL: They can't afford that.

FJ: And then here come REA (Rural Electrification Administration), which was sponsored by LaFollette and my father was one of the prime movers in that. Of course then he got defeated before it was really put through. BL: Um hum. FJ: But our home county was the first county in the state to be so organized under REA, if not in the nation. I think that it's the first loan for REA purposes in this nation, if I'm not badly mistaken. And I know it was the first one in Minnesota. BL: Um hum. FJ: In Meeker County. They built the first half of the county in oh, was it '36? It was just about the time my father died, and the next half the next year. And the first county so organized in Minnesota, if not in the nation. BL: You mentioned La Follette, Lindbergh and so on. With whom in the Farmer-Labor party was your father close? In other words, what was his relationship with people like Olson and Benson? FJ: Well, Olson came forth during them years. Olson, of course, was elected Governor three times on the Farmer-Labor banner. I'm safe in saying my father done more - he didn't furnish no money - but he done more, spoke more words to make Floyd Olson the first Farmer-Labor Governor of the nation than any other man. I'm safe in saying that. Because he spoke far and wide. [Tape recorder temporarily turned off] One of those legislative sessions in the Minnesota legislature, you can ask some of the old timers, but my dad was one of the most active and the most fightingest members. He used to get in a lot of debates with Representative [A. F.] Teigen from Chippewa County. One day they got in such a heated argument that ol’ Teigen he says, "I'm a better citizen than Magnus Johnson anyway," he says. "I was born in this country." Well, then when Dad got the floor he says, "Yes, Mr. Teigen, you could be a better citizen than I am, being born here, but I want you to know that I've come to this country by choice, Mr. Teigen, and you carne here by compulsion." [Laughter] And people said them golden horses on the Capitol just rang. That's what they said. And there was many other instances at that time, too, that Dad got himself famous for. That's one of the reasons why when later on there were almost ninety-one persons, most prominent persons, you might say, in the state filed for Congress, Dad got the biggest vote of any of them. BL: Did he work well with Shipstead at all? They were both in the Senate at the same time. FJ: Yeah, he worked well with Shipstead at first. As a matter of fact, Shipstead got himself elected to the. Minnesota legislature from Polk County, Glenwood being the county seat, and he was pulling teeth in Glenwood and father and some more of the Farmer-Labor members had a meeting in the (Twin) Cities somewhere late, but Shipstead wasn't there. And they decided that they were going to run Shipstead for Governor. So Dad was headed for North Dakota so he took the Soo Line up there and he called up Shipstead and told Shipstead to come up to the train. You

7 see, the train is up on the hill there at Glenwood and the town is down in the hole. And he told Shipstead to come up to the train. The train stopped there for provisions I understand. Anyway, he told him to come up to the train, that he had some news for him. And. when the train stopped there Shipstead come on the train and Dad told him that they were going to run him for Governor. I heard my father say that is the first time that Shipstead ever heard of such a thing, and that's what they did. They run him for Governor. Of course he got defeated and then, of course, Olson come later on after the land become more fertile for Farmer-Laborites and then he got elected. But Shipstead then of course got elected United States Senator in 1922, at the same time that my father was the Farmer-Labor candidate for Governor. He got beat by 14,000 and Shipstead got elected on the same ticket as United States Senator. But my father used to speak of the difference was that father had a Norwegian to run against and Minnesota was predominantly Scandinavian and Shipstead had Frank B. Kellogg as his opponent, Kellogg being a... of another nationality. Of course, Kellogg was also running for his second term as far as that goes. But anyway Shipstead defeated Kellogg for United States Senator the same election that Dad got defeated for Governor. BL: What was your dad's relationship with people like Knud Wefald and Ole Kvale? They were Farmer-Laborites. Did he know them well, do you know? FJ: Oh yes, oh yeah, Kvale was right along with... as a matter of fact when the Central Committee for the Seventh Congressional district - I think it was the seventh, yes; no, it could have been the sixth then; anyway that was changed - they met to endorse a candidate on the Farmer-Labor ticket for Congressman from that district, and when the balloting got done it was a tie vote. It was a tie vote with my father and Mr. Kvale. That was the old Reverend gentlemen, Mr. Kvale. I think I'm right now. It couldn't be the young ... his son later on. BL: Ole. FJ: Kvale, yeah. Senior Kvale. Yeah. [End side one of cassette; beginning of side two] BL: Can you recall your dad… FJ: Yeah, I might mention that when the Central Committee or some committee, two members from each county or how it was, voted to endorse a Farmer-Labor candidate to run for Congress in that district, the vote come out even between my father and Kvale. And then Dad said, "Give it to Kvale. Let him have it." Because I'm quite sure that Dad had two years more to serve as state senator at that time. And he wanted to fulfill the term which the people had elected him to do. So then Kvale got the endorsement and then he got elected. I know my father used to kid him about that. He said, "That was Andy Hamm that elected you." Mr. Kvale being a Reverend and probably never had a drink in his life, being dry, and of course that particular district had to be dry because that was A.J. Volstead's old district, you know, and he was the father of the prohibition. And Kvale beat him. BL: How did your father stand on prohibition?

FJ: My father thought that if a man wanted a drink, he was entitled to it. That's the way he looked at it. He wasn't strong for prohibition. No. He always loved his beer himself. BL: Then you mentioned Wefald, too, briefly. FJ: Oh, yeah, Congressman Wefald was in the same camp. BL: Congressman. FJ: Congressman, yeah. Wefald got elected out of them nine Farmer- Laborites. He got elected to Congress out of them nine in '32. BL: The old ninth. FJ: But he got elected that time, also. I'm quite sure he did. BL: That I don't know. FJ: I'm quite sure he… BL: He was I think on the Railroad and Warehouse Commission in the Olson administration, Wefald, in the '30s. FJ: Yes, yeah, I think he got defeated for Congress later on and then he got elected Railroad and Warehouse Commissioner. Yeah, that's right. BL: Did you say you had met Jon Wefald, the present commissioner (of agriculture)? FJ: Oh yes, yeah, I've met Jon. When they had that big meeting up here oh, I seen him during the campaign. I had a sign "Elect Wefald to state auditor." I had a sign to put on my ball out here even for young Jon. BL: Great, great. FJ: I know young Jon. He was master of ceremonies at that big meeting they had up here at Morris this spring, you know, concerning that government shut-off of payments to farmers, you know? And I was up there. I met him that time, too. I've met him several times. BL: What about Hjalmar Petersen? Do you know if your father knew him? FJ: Oh yes, yeah. I've slept in Hjalmar's house. We used to stop there when Dad was out campaigning. When Father would hit Pine County, why, of course, Hjalmar was always there. Father knew the political setup in practically every county in Minnesota. You wouldn't believe it. When we'd stop in Pine County, well... Senator Madigan, he wasn't in the same camp but he had to come up in the hotel and see Dad as soon as he found out Dad was staying overnight in Sandstone. I remember that well. I was with him. BL: And people would stop here at your place, too? FJ: Oh, yeah, they always made a beeline and hit for our place when they'd come close by, some politician. Yeah, we had politics with every meal there for twenty-five years. [laughter]

BL: You mentioned Lindbergh liked your mother's apple pie as well as the politics. FJ: Oh, yeah, him and the boy drove up one day when we was patching sacks in the granary and mother was baking apple pie. I remember well. And Lindbergh come to the house and mother had two apple pies set out there ready to put in the oven but she didn’t have the top crust on them yet. But she had the apples cut up and had sugar put them and he come and he stuck his fingers up and he had a hold of the piece of apple. “May I have one?” he said. BL: He was already in there. FJ: Yeah, well, that part I remember. Then I and young Lindbergh, we'd play out there. Throwed each other's caps up on the highest - that was the first big, high, closed-in car that I ever seen was when Lindbergh drove up here. Big one. I'd seen Fords before that but he had a bigger car and it was higher than a Ford. We throwed each other's caps up there and had to go and get a stick to get them. BL: Now, you drove the car for your father in what? Like the '23 campaign? Or some of the Governor campaigns? FJ: Well, not too much that early. Let's see, we got a Model T, I think it was in '21. No, we had a Model T before. The first time I ever drove a car alone out on the road was when I and Dad went to Litchfield for him to file his expense account at the time he was elected State Senator. I remember that day well because it had been raining. The road was muddy and Dad let me drive until we come to the suburbs of Litchfield. I was fourteen years old then and that turned out to be Armistice Day. The eleventh day of November, 1918. The flags was all out in Litchfield before we left. We didn't know exactly why it was at first. Before we left town, why, we found out that the Armistice had been signed and the (First World) War was over. BL: Well, speaking of the War, was there much hard feeling against the Nonpartisan League in this area? FJ: Oh, yes, during the legislative sessions there was considerable well, like I said, they called Dad "radical" and some of those other old Senators they called radical and especially A. C. Welch. He was another one of those fighters for the same principles my father was fighting for and they even made a survey in the legislature concerning patriotism and so forth of all these so- called radicals, especially. And when they ran on to old A. C. Welch of Glencoe, he was right along the camp in the lower legislature, well, he was in the legislature longer than Dad but then Dad was in the Senate, and when they were taking this survey they ran onto old Welch and here he had four sons fighting in Germany so then they stopped that. They stopped that. He had four sons in the service. Now, I shouldn't say they were near Germany, but they were in the active service and some of them were in Germany. Four sons in the service, old A. C. Welch. Their home was right on the corner of Glencoe there. They're building a great big beautiful garage in there right along side of that farm; the old buildings are still there. BL: Well… that's the sort of thing Lindbergh ran into, of course, in that period. FJ: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, they throwed eggs at him and everything else. BL: Your father was never refused the right to speak or anything that you are aware?

FJ: No, I don't think so. I don't recall that he was. Well, another instance in the legislature when Father was fighting for cooperation and so forth and organizing more classes and so forth, why old Teigen he got so hot one day he said, "Oh, I wonder if Magnus Johnson has ever helped organize a creamery, a cooperative creamery." So that was when they were fighting about the oleomargarine business and Dad when he got the floor he mentioned, he answered and said, "Yes, Mr. Teigen, I organized lots of creameries." And he said, "There are three cooperative creameries in my home township of Kingston and there's no incorporated village. That probably never happened no where’s else in this state that there's three cooperative creameries within a six square miles out in the country where there-is no incorporated village." Now Kingston Township is a township and a half. But these three cooperative creameries within the original six miles square that are the township, which should have been Kingston township, but it run close to the line to Stearns County so there was half another township up, so Kingston was a township and a half. But then three cooperative creameries within the original six mile square township of Kingston. No incorporated village. You know, if it had been a big city it wouldn't mean nothing unusual about that. BL: Do you think he was influenced by Scandinavian background on the cooperative or not? FJ: Oh, I don't think the Scandinavian part of it had anything to do with that because that was to help organize any farmers, to buy grain cooperatively. He was vice president of the Equity Cooperative Exchange, you know. BL: With Loftus. FJ: Yeah, along with Loftus and J.M. Anderson was one of the officers and they were organized a lot of free elevators. But later on, big business put the screws under them and put them out of business. Yeah, that’s the way it goes. BL: I'm looking at these, you know, other individuals in the Farmer-Labor movement, (and we'll end here in a minute), what about Elmer Benson? Was he close to your dad at all or...? FJ: Well, Elmer Benson was - I'll tell you that's one ... what happened in the Farmer-Labor party, Benson was elected to the legislature, I think, yeah, and he was affiliated with the Farmer- Labor party but he never fought for principles like Father did, but that is neither here nor there. But there got to be an element in the Farmer-Labor party that catered to him and well, they were grooming him, of course, to run for governor. Olson's third term was running out and everybody knew that he was to be the Farmer-Labor candidate for United States Senator and… BL: In '36. FJ: …in '36 and my father announced in '35 for Governor in '36. He was going to try to get the Farmer-Labor nomination. But, of course, that was the year that he got hit with an automobile in the fall, or in the winter. He announced on the Fourth of July in '35 that he was going to run for Governor. At a big meeting in Mankato, Minnesota, he announced that he was a candidate, going to be a candidate for the Farmer-Labor nomination for Governor once again. That was the Fourth of July, if I'm not mistaken. It was July in '35. Father thought he was entitled to it, having been so closely elected at one time and then being defeated and defeated and defeated. And, of course, Olson had been elected three times and a good man under Farmer-Labor would be elected again.

So then Father announced, like I said, in Mankato in July, '35, he was a candidate for Governor. Well, that made a lot of Farmer-Laborites of the newer class anyway ... you take like old Farmer- Laborites like Wefald - I don't know if Wefald was living yet, the old man - but the younger generation was, and Trovaten in the legislature, had become Commissioner of Agriculture, practically all the old bonafide Farmer-Laborites stuck with Dad. They figured that he was entitled to it, because Olson had been Governor for six years. The state employees, he had a contingent of them, they were afraid they would lose their jobs if Father would become the Farmer-Labor nominee instead of Benson, because they were grooming Benson to be the United States Senator. Well, there got to be some ill feeling there and of course Benson's crew took over the newspaper, the Farmer-Labor Leader, [Abe] Harris being the editor and Jacobs, of course, he was a Jewish gentleman from Minneapolis or someplace and he seemed to have a lot to say about politics and the Farmer-Labor party. He was of the newer generation and he come out with a dirty story about Dad and being on a free love case and so on. They had a law suit over that and they never proved nothing though so… Anyway, then before the general election come along, why Olson died. Death overtook Olson. BL: Yeah, that's right. FJ: Yeah, but previous to this, previous to this, the year before or so, the man that defeated my father for United States Senator, Thomas D. Schall, a blind man, he died. BL: I think that's right, yeah. FJ: And due to the fact that years ago when the guy from up at Alexandria… BL: Nelson? FJ: Nelson, when Knute Nelson died, that's the time they didn't have no law giving the Governor power to appoint him. That was the reason why they had the special election. Well, now they had such a law, see, when Tom Schall died. Now, Tom Schall was the guy that defeated my father for United States Senate and before his term was over, he died. And Governor Olson was then Governor. And like I said before, my father done more to make Floyd Olson the first Farmer- Labor Governor in the nation. He was Governor. BL: And he had a good rapport with Olson and...? FJ: And he had the power with the stroke of a pen to name my father to take the place of Tom Schall, to fill out that unexpired term. Father, due to his pride, he didn't ask him because he figured, sure with everything in the newspapers and everything that he should have appointed Dad. But what happened, there was a big snow storm. Anyway, the appointment was in the air, see, of who he was to appoint, and there was a big snow storm and Dad couldn't get from our farm ten miles from a railroad out of Kingston, Minnesota, he couldn't get to town, see. And when he did, he went up to the Capitol to see Olson the first thing. And what had happened in the meantime was that Olson told this to my father and Father told me, that's as far as it's hearsay and I know it's the God's truth. When Father got up to the Capitol to see Olson about this, why Olson said,

"You know, Magnus, what happened?" He says, "I come to the office the other morning" (or this morning or the other morning or whatever it was). He says, "There laid the copy of the Minnesota Leader on my desk.” And he unfolded it and there was letters that was about four inches high saying "Benson appointed Senator". BL: Elmer Benson. . . FJ: And Olson said to my father, "So help me God," he said, "I had not appointed him. I had not appointed him." But see in the next election Olson was to be candidate for the United States Senate and Father I know would have relinquished, if he could have only stepped back and fill out the unexpired term of Tom Schall why he would have been willing to let Olson be the Farmer-Labor for all the people in Minnesota. You couldn't defeat Olson for whatever he run here. But here he appointed Benson so that Benson would get the publicity to help get him elected… BL: …governor? FJ: To help get him elected governor. Yeah, he was elected governor, but he was only elected governor once. And then he got defeated. I helped to defeat him, too, do not forget that. BL: In '38? FJ: Then the next summer Father announced that he was going to run for Governor, see, and of course as the campaign was getting hot and long in the fall of the year, then his death cut him down. Olson never become United States Senator. Death took him. That man, I think, would have went on to be United States... would have been President because he fought for what he thought was right. But he had troubles and, of course, he died of cancer, I understand. And then Benson went on and got elected BL: Do you think your father might have beat Benson had he lived? Your father died in '36, too. FJ: Well, that… that's to be... we'll never know. BL: He would have gone all the way against Benson like in '36? FJ: Oh, yeah, yeah, he would have went all the way. If he hadn't gotten hurt. But then that is neither here nor there but that crowd, you know, they smeared him. Father done more to put Farmer-Labor party in power, in this state than anybody. He traveled more miles, and spoke more words anyway. Then the Farmer-Labor leaders, they come out after Pa announced for Governor, like I said, they come - well, then... Harris was editor, so he come out with a big article and says, "The sluice hat of Magnus Johnson in the race for Governor" and so forth. BL: I want to ask you just a couple of more things here. Did your father rely on anybody for political advice; do you feel during all of these various periods, either the twenties or the thirties? I mean either someone in office like Olson or someone, you know, some private friend? FJ: To name them, I would say George Loftus and A. C. Townley, and. well, he was in cahoots with Lynn Frazier of North Dakota and George (Gerald) P. Nye and old William Langer of

North Dakota. They used to travel in our old model car, and they had to stop and get water from the ditch in St. Cloud one time. I remember old Bill Langer and Dad and so forth. They were the ones that helped mold him and Dad fighting for the wood haulers to get a better price. That was one of the starting elements in his career. BL: Anything you'd like to add about your own family in terms of the history of the family? FJ: Well, no, we weren't politicians. None of us ever run for office. I don't know it seemed like we had enough at home without running. [laughter] BL: One thing I was wondering, Mr. Johnson, is the original home farm where you grew up and your dad now was in Kingston Township? FJ: Right. BL: Was that 200 acres or…? FJ: No, the original farm was 140 acres only. I bought a forty adjoining it when I was just a kid. Dad had to sign for me, yeah. So it consisted of 180 acres. Well, my brother bought another twenty before I got the forty, so we farmed together there. We had 200 acres. BL: Is that east of the highway there now or…? FJ: It's west of Kingston. It's west of [highway] 15, a mile and three quarters, and it's about the same distance from 24 on the north side of the river. And it's a tar road. It's called - oh, gosh, I forget now the number, the county number. That's been put on since I moved away. BL: And how large a dairy herd did your father usually keep during all of those years? FJ: Well, we milked over twenty cows for over twenty years. That we done. And the most I think would be possibly under thirty. BL: And I was wondering Francis, on your hobby here, do you care to comment on that at all? What are your main interests in your collection of antiques and farm machinery? FJ: Well, I got interested in pencils when I was just a kid. I always hated to sharpen a new pencil. I wanted to keep it. That's probably why I never learned very much. [Laughter] But I've kept pencils and pens and I've whittled these little pliers like this. I worked for the state eleven years and I used to trade these for pens from the waitresses and so on all over the country - Minnesota, I mean. But I have been in every state in the union with my car, but that's years later. We used to bale twine for the neighbors on the farm home, it used to snarl up and then we had a lot of dairy cows and fed a lot of bales at home and I started rolling up twine, you know, so I made the biggest ball of twine in the world. And pictures has gone out all over the world and nobody has come forth with a bigger one. I had it over television, New York City, fifteen years ago, and no one had a bigger ball at that time. Had it on television screen. BL: What would you estimate your collection of farm machinery amounts to? You've got a lot of plows... FJ: Oh, them old things, they're going up in price most every day. I wouldn't have no idea.

BL: But I mean how many pieces of machinery do you suppose you've got here in your collection? FJ: Pieces of machinery? Well, I've got seventeen different kinds of plows. I don't know. Pieces of farm machinery? I've got a lot of different machines that come from butcher's shops and bake shops and such as that, and old pumps and stuff, many different kinds of old pumps and like I said, I've got over 260 different kinds of hammers and 1700 aprons from every state in the union except Hawaii, and I've got over sixty different kinds of old jacks, not counting any hydraulic jacks. And I've got several old meat cutters and so forth, I don't know how many, and 5,000 pens and pencils. BL: You've been collecting all your life, would you say? Or is this more recent? FJ: Well, I never throwed away nothing. My mother taught me to take care of everything that I got of any value. I never throwed away anything of value. BL: And you farmed this place, too, then, quite a few years ago? FJ: No, well, this... BL: Or do you just live there? FJ: I just live here. This is less than two acres. It's mostly wooded, you know, goes down into the lake. There's some meander land down there. BL: What did you do for the state, Mr. Johnson? FJ: I worked for the egg and poultry division. But that was during the war, and the war came along and took us over and we done mostly grading for federal government purposes. You know car lots of eggs that went to the camps and went into storage and a lot of it was sold direct to the government. We put a certificate on a carload, mostly carload lots. BL: And your other brothers and sisters? FJ: My other two brothers, they farmed all their lives. They are both retired now. My younger brother just became 65, but he's been crippled for many years. BL: Is there anything else that you remember of campaigning with your father that stands out in your memory? Incidents or towns or platforms or anything? FJ: Well, I was in a lot of towns all right and I remember one time in particular that... I remember Shoemaker, he was in the Farmer-Labor ranks, too, and during those years when the farmers were trying to get a better price by cutting down production - you hear a lot about that nowadays - but even then, why, they were going to plan on cutting down production to get a better price, so that particular issue isn't new. But Shoemaker used to say his solution was to put roller-skates on the bulls. [laughter] BL: That's one solution. FJ: Hadn't you ever heard that?

BL: No, I never... FJ: And then he used to say that you couldn't borrow money from a bank unless you could prove you didn't need it. Yeah, Dad had very few bankers that was his friends. There was no banker in Meeker County that voted for him, Dad used to say. His greatest banker friend was Old Tom Meagan from Preston, Minnesota. That man gave more money to the Farmer-Labor party than anybody else. That man furnished more money to make Floyd Olson the first Farmer-Labor governor in the nation than any other man. And I claim my dad traveled more miles and spoke more words to that effect.