KINDER KOMMUNISMUS A biographical interview with Huang Rui Ariane Müller

Huang Rui was pointed out to me as an members kept that quiet. Don’t touch artist who has played a very important the record player! But I was sixteen. I role in the last decades since he started played it to listen to Tchaikowski. I to become, very young at that time, an liked it, immediately. actor in China’s democracy movement So I decided to not go back to school. of the 1970ies, and a founder of the art To stay at home. Go about, see friends and poetry Stars Group closely con- and family, exchange records, listen to nected to the movement. He has since music, Beethoven. been affiliated with or just friend to AM: Nobody said you have to work? many actors in subsequent under- HR: My mother, she was so busy, ground art movements in Beijing, and always in a state of panic. She covered a founder of 798 art district, which was, up for me. She has a really wide heart. and actually partly still is, a community In the last year of school I should go to of non aligned artists within Beijing’s the countryside, 18 years old was the complex art system. He is, after spend- limit. I decided to go early, with 16. At ing some years in Japan in the Eighties, home everything was nervous. My also an internationally exhibited and mother had to take care of my sisters. collected gallery artist. I was explicitly My older sister was sick. So I was going asking him more about his biography to the countryside. than about his current work but shortly AM: Were you thinking of yourself as after we had had this conversation he an artist at that time? was off to Shanghai to open a show at HR: No, I don’t know. I learned, I was Danysz gallery. reading a lot of Russian literature, Having stayed in Beijing for three through Russian to French to English, months, different impressions of an which you got from friends. immense art market with its high pro- AM: Was there something like a youth duction value art, alongside the insis- culture at that time? tence that art still bears a political HR: A subculture (underground); of responsibility—which at first glance exchanging books, but only young kids becomes visible through a very could do that. They did not understand opposed usage of the city in Beijing’s the trouble so they had the courage. art villages—had left me with a lot of AM: Were you sent to Mongolia? questions which Huang Rui was so very HR: You could chose where to go. nice to answer. From Beijing they sent you to either Inner Mongolia or Shaanxi province. Huang Rui: The cultural revolution So I chose, and there was this opportu- started in 1966. At that time I was 13 nity of going to Inner Mongolia, so I years old. We were living near the For- thought it is maybe better. bidden City, in the center. My father AM: Was it better? was the owner of a furniture factory, HR: I don’t know. It was very hard. my mother was a housewife, but sinceAll photosAll photos except except p. 102: p. Stars 102: Stars 1979 ,1979 Exhibition, Exhibition at OCAT at OCAT Institute, Institute, Beijing Beijing There was nothing. It is a very hard life. 1956 the government was calling edu- AM: What were you doing? cated women to work, so my mother being a participant but just through used pastel to write out something, school I learned to make drawings and HR: I had no choice. At that time it HR: Mao was thinking that every- became a teacher in primary school. university he had been a part. I remem- copy some manga, to write on the floor. to copy portraits of Mao. This was the was good and bad. The good thing was, where you put food, you get food. In My father was a rich guy. Of course in ber when they took him to prison, AM: During the cultural revolution, only art. I could do it my way, not only as one of Inner Mongolia normally it is free the cultural revolution that stopped. where he was but only for half a year. what was the position of art? I had many opportunities to see Mao a group of students. The good thing nature, animal herding. Something The factory, the compound, was taken So my mother had to support all of us. HR: At that time in primary school before the cultural revolution, when I was I came back home. I remember one below farming. But this was a central away for socialism in 1956 to1957, and Six children. Not easy. I started to learn Chinese ink painting went to Tiananmen square. day when it became clear to me: I don’t project, we had to make agriculture my father was sent to the storage of the Ariane Müller: So you were in school. from my neighborhood. From my Just in that time in 1966—while going want to go to school again. Because in there. The people really fast became factory, to work there. In the beginning What did you want to become? Were you classmate’s father. The policy of the to Middle school—middle school edu- school you would just fucking read even poorer. The people used to have of the cultural revolution they forced thinking of becoming an artist? government was that this should be cation stopped. The students should Mao’s books. something in the family but that didn’t my father to write his biography and HR: Of course. The first time I made thrown away. So my teacher was sent start the revolution. I had a culture shock. Because at that last for long. Before we went there, they they found my father was a liar. He had a painting I was three years old. I still not to jail but to the countryside. He AM: How did you think about it, the time it was forbidden to listen to classi- could earn money, like one day more said he never was a member of the remember. Because my mother, going died in the countryside soon after- revolution? I mean it was about young cal music. Luckily I had a record player than one Yuan. First year after I arrived National party. But they found that not to school, brought back the pastels. I wards. We had no idea at that time. In people? in my family. But the whole family it went down to half a Yuan. The second

96 STARSHIP Nº 19 SPRING 2020 97 year it was only 0.3 Yuan, the third year Then I came back to Beijing. 0.2. One year later I went to a leather fac- I stayed there six years, very long. It tory. In 1975. I stayed there around became better in the end. I stayed in a three years. really small village. Our village was AM: How was that? maybe 150 or 140 people. We were four HR: Very boring. youths from Beijing. They were all com- AM: How long did you work every ing from good schools, older than me. day? We did something, though. The land is HR: I didn’t work every day. The so dry. You need water but the water workers helped me. They protected me. comes from the Yellow River. If you I only came in the afternoons. It is a pour water there it just vanishes. After government system. They give you the water was gone, nothing ever grew. work. You should make so and so many It is a really bad idea. It was impossible belts, the holes and the fixtures. They to have a harvest. So we changed and give you the job. In one day you have to decided we would not go for food, finish six-hundred belts. So I would go instead, maybe in the fourth year, we in the afternoon, make it really fast, had the idea to change to cultivate nat- and then was gone. ural medicine. Its named Gou qi or AM: You can make six hundred a Go-Yi. The English name is Wolf Berry. day? Go-Yi don’t care, it’s just ok there. With HR: Yes. Go-Yi we were really successful. So in AM: Wow! How was Beijing at that the second year in the village with Go-Yi, time? people liked it. One day you could earn HR: It was very broken. again something like one Yuan, then You know I am the friend of a very more than one Yuan, then more. famous poet. Bei Dao. AM: How were the people? Bei Dao, Gu Cheng, Mang Ke. They are HR: The people there were so nice. now very famous. Bei Dao is three Very pure. To some degree it was very years older than me, the others are free. So I could listen to classical music. younger. We exchanged books. It was a start to really learn art with books I brought from Beijing.

THE ANSWER I came into this world A new conjunction and glimmering So we had a group. Also I had a young was sent back to the factory. In our fac- western name. We called it Democracy By Bei Dao Bringing only paper, rope, a shadow, stars artist friend, a painter. tory are thousand workers so it had a Wall. We were meeting there at the To proclaim before the judgment Adorn the unobstructed sky now; AM: What about western music? detention room, inside of the factory, it Democracy Wall in Xidan street. The voice that has been judged: They are the pictographs from five HR: Later. Because China during all is not a real jail, but a sort of security cell Now it is just the corner of Xidan street Debasement is the password of the Let me tell you, world, thousand years. of the 60s and 70s had no exchange and two or three months I was there. and Chang’an Street. In this democ- base, I—do—not—believe! They are the watchful eyes of future with the west. The poets could maybe AM: But you were not scared? racy movement at the Democracy Wall Nobility the epitaph of the noble. If a thousand challengers lie beneath generations. do some exchange, and I would go to HR: I was not scared. were over a hundred people. We made See how the gilded sky is covered your feet, poets salons, in Bei Dao’s house. But I was lucky. My factory was a sector of this literature magazine which was With the drifting twisted shadows of Count me as number thousand and 1973 later his father said this was quite dan- the communist party. The director of called Jintian—Today. the dead. one. Translated by Bonnie S. McDougall gerous and he stopped it. the factory loved Zhou Enlai, so he had It was published illegally, we were sell- I don’t believe the sky is blue; AM: Did you also have the impression the strong conviction of not passing me ing it at the Democracy Wall. It was The Ice Age is over now, I don’t believe in thunder’s echoes; it was too dangerous? to the police. quite popular. Normally we produced Why is there ice everywhere? I don’t believe that dreams are false; HR: I never cared about it. AM: So you were in that small group 300 copies. We used stencil print The Cape of Good Hope has been I don’t believe that death has no In 1976 I wrote a poem, I copied it and of poets and artists. Were there women, machines. There is a limit to it how discovered, revenge. put my poem on the Monument to the artists? many you could make. It depends on Why do a thousand sails contest the people’s heroes in Tiananmen square. HR: Of course. the paper, sometimes the ink does not Dead Sea? If the sea is destined to breach the dikes When Zhou Enlai died, people would be AM: And you were thinking of your- work. Let all the brackish water pour into my going to Tiananmen square to put flow- self as an artist? AM: Was the magazine about politics? heart; ers and some messages on the statue. So HR: At that time I had made the HR: It was not so much about poli- If the land is destined to rise I put this poem. But after a few days, the decision to be an artist already. tics, it was poetry, modern poetry. Bei Let humanity choose a peak for police came to our factory and took me This was the movement the people Dao was like a French poet. The old existence again. away. Then after just one day in prison I called The Beijing Spring. Which is a people were reading classical poetry,

98 STARSHIP Nº 19 SPRING 2020 99 AM: You started the artist group In that time China was changing a lot, Stars. they opened again. Until 1989 when HR: Originally it is a Chinese name they closed again. Until Tiananmen The Xing Xing 1. This is not like a movie square. star or some singer star. We said: Stars I knew about Tiananmen square in the sky. During the cultural revolu- because I was watching TV in Japan, I tion Mao took care of the media and it wanted to support the students, so I was said that people living in socialist collected money from some friends, countries—this was maybe similar in who supported me and I took 3000 East Germany—since they are much Dollars to give to the students. Origi- better than capitalist countries, live nally I only wanted to stay for five days. always in bright daylight. So capitalist Then it happened. countries live in the dark. Stars are in But the real situation was not feeling the night. So it is the night when we live. good. I went to support them. On the Stars were young artists, it brought the day I arrived in Beijing, I changed avant-garde artists together. We were money and went to Tiananmen square 23 people who made the first exhibition, to pass my money to students. I was outside of the National Art Museum. walking around to see how to give it to This first exhibition was mainly paint- them, but I was not feeling good. I had ing, poetry and sculpture. For only two already been living in Japan for five days. On the third day the police years and it is a very clean country. stopped it and seized all of the works. Meanwhile everything was so dirty AM: So what did you think of public there, I forgot at that time, but the space, all of it was in the public space? whole situation was very ugly (maybe Were there exhibition spaces? like in Hong Kong now). HR: The government had artists AM: So you were estranged to them? associations. They had space. HR: You don’t understand that from AM: Were these artist associations television. There you only saw the friends? good parts. They were students but HR: The chairman was really they had no idea, and they were violent. friendly to me, in personal communica- I think because at that time I had a dif- tion, but they thought our group was ferent experience with our critical too radical. movement, and this had been so differ- AM: What was the main argument? ent. Some people in Tiananmen square That it was against the government? may have been intellectuals but mostly HR: No, we chose artwork as they were not. anti-government policy. We wanted In that time the prime minister (Zhao artistic freedom, meanwhile all the Ziyang) on one day in May went to people working in the association had Tiananmen square to shake hands and the same themes. We wanted more talk to students. He said: You should freedom for us, more experimenta- leave Tiananmen square, because it is tions, new styles from the west. not important to stay here. Listen to me. DEDICATIONS: 1972–1973 For a Girl For a Friend Majakowski, to Apollinaire, Baudelaire, AM: Was there performance, music? You play with your life, but you have a by Mang Ke time cannot comprehend humanity these powerless hands Lorca, Neruda. HR: At that time not. It was a paint- future, just leave here. On that same but in a hurried encounter become forceful fists AM: How did the police react? ing project. Painting, poetry, and sculp- day he lost his job. There was a meeting she gave me something like warmth HR: At that time the police and the ture. There was a party meeting and Deng For Life For Winter party were not in control, there was Then after two years China came back. Xiaoping stopped Ziyang’s efforts. sometimes I go shout in the valley For the Night life chaos. Hua Guofeng was very shortly They closed it. Zhao Ziyang wanted to change China, and when the valley sends me my no woman can make a man giddy lights like a match in power, just two years. AM: So what did you think? he wanted to protect the students. But voice and no man can make a woman to give warmth AM: Was this a movement in other HR: We thought, ah, this is China, the chairmen lost their face. Yet, he my voice pregnant to burn cities as well? China again … said: Ok, I try a last time. shocks my heart and to be burnt HR: This movement happened only So everyone went back to themselves, AM: The next day the military came? For Ping’s 18th Year in Beijing, because Beijing was full of we kept in touch with each other, we HR: The military had already come. For Baiyangdian in the wide eyes of the sickly child For my 23rd Birthday that kind of people, full of clever, brave did parties together but it was impos- But they were outside. Then they went oh great land go learn about beauty handsome and brilliant people, passionate about sible to show work. inside Tiananmen square. you arouse my passions in health avant-garde. I think this was until 1985. In 1985 two I left Beijing on that day. But I saw them. For Poetry full of thought AM: Were you feeling free at that time? very open plenaries came with Deng It was too much. The soldiers killed For the Sun the cold but great imagination HR: At that time, yes. But it lasted Xiaoping until 1989. But I moved to citizens, citizens killed soldiers. Only once more you’re awoken is you transforming only before the end of 1979. Then it Japan in 1984 because I married a young kids killed each other. So young, hair gone salt and pepper the desolation of our lives was forbidden, Deng Xiaoping decided Japanese girl. they didn’t understand, they had no to demolish the wall. He was super AM: How did you experience Japan? sense. I was really close. We should not For a Poet For Someone clever. You could have posters inside in HR: At this time China and Japan go there, so I stayed in the Hutong, you are an eagle flying toward the only the world is enough one space, but you had to go inside of had good relationships, during all of where it was safe. Some soldier was graveyard some park. Where nobody would go. the 70s and 80s Japan supported China. running into there, with no direction.

100 STARSHIP Nº 19 SPRING 2020 101 The young kids killed him. Used stones, But when I came back to Beijing I only Beijing is more violent in front, they used bricks, killed him. I had a return had one idea, to use an old factory demolish all art districts outside the ticket. space and to make it my studio. I had fifth ring road. AM: Were you thinking you would been traveling around the world, to Our leaders don’t like contemporary art. stay in Japan all of your life? Soho, to Germany, to Amsterdam, and I saw it so many times, they so often HR: I stayed in Japan, I was working. I had seen how it was done there. have a promotion of a new cultural pol- I became a gallery artist. Quite good gal- At that time, I rented a space really icy. They keep on pushing traditional leries. One is a Tokyo gallery (Ueda gal- close by, alone for half a year, but so fast, art. But they totally don’t understand lery). In the 80s I could live from my art. a friend came, then other artists came. what traditional culture is. They have In the 90s they had an economic crisis. At that time it was very cheap. Before I no culture. They say they support tradi- They closed a lot of museums. The pri- found this here, which is now 798, I saw tional culture but traditional culture vate museums closed. I was lucky to spaces with no heating, no light, but links to contemporary art. Contempo- show in Ueda gallery, it was a top gallery. here it was possible. Then, I invited the rary art is standing in traditional cul- But in the 90s it was very difficult. You owner of the Tokyo gallery to look at ture. I am working in contemporary art chose to uphold a nut, an individual the space and he opened a gallery in but I am standing in traditional culture. decision, to make art for yourself. 2002. Then Long March Gallery came They don’t understand. In 2001 I went back to Beijing. During only months later, then White Space China is always in time cycles. Open up, all of the 90s I wanted to come back opened a gallery. go back, demonstrations and contribu- and participate in the underground art AM: Then the government stepped in tions, Mao said, who cares, let’s just movement. And I did try but the gov- and made it an official art village? demolish that—they demolished all ernment took my stamp at the end of HR: Here should be a part of a city, heritage of Tang dynasty, Ming and 1994 and I was not allowed to come for the inside of what they would call Xing dynasty—but Mao said: “without five years. I tried to come back two “Electricity City.” We made the move in destruction there can be no construc- times, but the computer finds you. order to preserve the original factory. tion.” AM: So what was this underground At that time the factory was part of an He also said, China is poor and blank, movement doing? urban plan and it was going to be just like a piece of white paper, on HR: East village they call it. I was destroyed. I told you I have a lot of which beautiful pictures are drawn, very good friends with them. experience in how to make these things, and he said: what happened? The peo- There were ten artists living there. you can check that in the internet but ple are still working! They were very poor. They made per- we met many people. And Chinese people are really working formances, some made photos. Living AM: Many people say it is totally gen- hard. together, sleeping together. trified by now. How do you think about AM: So it can always change? AM: Were there galleries? all the shops? HR: In shortest time, but I have no HR: There was still the mainstream HR: It is good for here, otherwise it idea. to make system–conforming art. They wouldn’t survive. The party controls it were outside. and they just ask you about numbers, AM: I heard that until today there are about either propaganda numbers or 1 the „Xingxing Huahui“ (星星画会) is the people who are state artists and people business numbers. Chinese name of the Stars Group. (Xingxing in outside. But what does it mean? I mean AM: How many artists are still work- Chinese means literally „stars stars“). you have a gallery. ing here? HR: You need to have a gallery, an HR: Around ten. In the beginning international gallery. For people who we were seventy including me. The want to be in the system. The system change came with the Olympics. The has more opportunities. The official Beijing Olympics liked the artists, it system. Outside it is very difficult, we was a good opportunity for them to have a really small percentage of artists make a „new“ Beijing, a new culture that can survive unofficially. during the Olympic Games. But it was If you look at 798. I discovered the the Factory management who didn’t place and made the concept to pre- like the artists. They kicked out some serve 798. When I came back, I could and cut my contract. We lost our com- not stay in my mothers house in the munity and so many people chose to Hutong. It is very tiny. leave. AM: Does it still exist? AM: And are the artists really leaving, HR: They tore it down, very recently. or just going outside of Beijing? Top: Huang Rui in his office, Bejing 2019. Bottom: Huang Rui giving a speech at the Xidan Democracy Wall before the protest Half a year ago. For me I wanted to Normally people don’t like to leave march on 1 October 1979 have a space in bigger Beijing, I live Beijing. They chose to go to the outside quite far outside. But for my mother? of Beijing. Gu Cheng She lived there for more than seventy If you want a challenge, you should stay years. It was a shock. I had to lie to my in Beijing. mother. I said, today there’s nice AM: How much do you still think The dark night gave me black eyes, weather, let’s go outside. Then I took about social responsibilities? But I use them to seek the light. her with the car to the new apartment HR: Shanghai makes it very clever. 黑夜给了我黑色的眼睛 and had to say: You can not come back. They deeply cover censorship in propa- 我却用它寻找光明 She is 94. ganda.

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