Thursday Volume 522 27 January 2011 No. 107
HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)
Thursday 27 January 2011
£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 423 27 JANUARY 2011 424
What steps is the Secretary of State taking with the House of Commons Department to encourage those firms? Would he like to visit the constituency? Thursday 27 January 2011 Mr Hammond: In fact, yesterday, I met a firm developing innovative battery technology in Aberdeen. We are always The House met at half-past Ten o’clock pleased to talk to companies that are developing low- emission vehicle technology in the UK. We have deliberately made the incentives technology-neutral so that people PRAYERS developing new and innovative systems can get the benefit of them. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): One of the quickest and cheapest ways in which to reduce vehicle emissions is through more economical driving habits, Oral Answers to Questions but I understand that the take-up by businesses of smarter driving training courses has been disappointing. Will the Secretary of State explore the strategies that are open to the Department to increase take-up of TRANSPORT those courses?
The Secretary of State was asked— Mr Hammond: The Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Low-emission Vehicles Baker) is looking precisely at how to increase take-up of the smarter driving training courses. 1. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): What steps he is taking to encourage the take-up of low-emission Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC): As the Secretary of State knows, the Department vehicles. [36293] turned down a joint private and public consortium bid, The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip including Cardiff and Bristol councils and the Energy Hammond): Eighty-four per cent. of journeys are Saving Trust, for a network of electric car-charging undertaken by car. Tackling car-produced carbon by points between both cities on the M4. Will he explain to fostering and supporting the decarbonisation of motoring the people of south Wales why he turned down that bid? is therefore one of the Government’s key transport priorities. The spending review announced provision of Mr Hammond: The number of bids exceeded the more than £400 million for measures to promote the available resources for the second wave of plugged-in uptake of ultra-low carbon vehicle technologies. Those places pilot schemes. All the bids were evaluated, and include support for consumer incentives, development those that represented the greatest value for money of recharging infrastructure and a programme of research were allowed to proceed. The promoters of the unsuccessful and development. bids have been debriefed by the team in the Department, so they will have a detailed understanding of why their Guy Opperman: My local pub, the Battlesteads inn, bid, on this occasion, failed. I hope that they will be which is award winning and excellent, has an electric encouraged to resubmit a bid in the next wave. car-charging point. It is one of the few in Northumberland. The problem is that the ability to recharge is dependent Rail Industry (Reform) on the north-east’s sole recharging point. When will the system be made nationwide? 2. Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): What Mr Hammond: As my hon. Friend knows, the north-east plans he has for reform of the rail industry; and if he is one of the areas that has been selected for support in will make a statement. [36294] the plugged-in places pilot, so there will be a roll-out of further charging infrastructure in the north-east. The 8. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): Government are currently considering the options for a What plans he has for reform of the rail industry; and national roll-out of charging infrastructure and how we if he will make a statement. [36301] mandate that. We will publish our decisions in due course. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Hammond): Sir Roy McNulty’s rail value for money Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): Is the study has identified areas where significant efficiencies Secretary of State aware of two interesting companies can be achieved. It is clear that the most pressing need is in my constituency? First, ITM Power produces and to align incentives across the industry to ensure closer develops hydrogen-powered cars, with the ability to working between Network Rail and the train operating produce hydrogen in domestic units at home. Secondly, companies. Our franchise reform programme is a key Magnatec attaches electric motors to diesel-powered strand in the strategy. Those reforms, together with vehicles, increasing efficiency by 30%. That system has Sir Roy’s final recommendations, will form the basis of been running on buses in Denver for more than 10 years, a long-term strategy for the industry. We are committed but British buses do not seem interested in taking it up. to publishing those proposals by November 2011. 425 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 426
Mr Buckland: Peak-time and season-ticket commuters punctuality, should play a much greater part in the from Swindon to London on the main line have had to award of future railway franchises, and in their retention face significant fare increases this month. Will the by train operating companies? Government’s new rail franchising reform programme put special emphasis on the need for greater capacity Mr Hammond: My right hon. Friend the Minister of and fairer rail fares? State has published a consultation on franchising reform, in which she referred specifically to considering passenger Mr Hammond: We are committed to fair rail fares. satisfaction as one of the metrics. My hon. Friend will Unfortunately, to support the rail investment programme, no doubt have been as delighted as I was to see the we have had to project faster-than-inflation increases in Passenger Focus survey this morning which shows that fares for the next three years. However, let us be clear: 84% of rail passengers are satisfied with the service that we have to get the cost of our railway down so that the they receive on the railway. burden on taxpayers and fare payers can be alleviated in future. Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s decision to continue the rail Harriett Baldwin: It takes 45 minutes longer to travel industry review that was started by the Labour Government. from London to Worcestershire along the Cotswold line When Sir Roy McNulty publishes his final report in now than it did in 1908. Will the Secretary of State April, the Opposition will support any sensible proposals agree to meet me and other representatives of the that take cost out of the industry without reducing the Cotswold line organisations to see how reform of the quality of service for passengers. However, does the rail industry could help improve the timing and frequency Transport Secretary agree with me—and with some of that service? Conservative Back Benchers, from what I heard in earlier exchanges—that as the cost to the Government Mr Hammond: I understand my hon. Friend’s concern. of running the railways comes down, the cost to the Of course, there are far more stops and services than public of travelling by train should come down as well? there were in 1908, but I am always delighted to meet her and other colleagues and would be happy to do so Mr Hammond: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her on this occasion. expression of support for Sir Roy McNulty’s review and I am happy to acknowledge that that process was set in Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): train by my predecessor. I look forward to taking the How will the Secretary of State secure better co-ordination, review forward on a consensual basis. Of course, the focusing on the interests of passengers rather than for objective of driving efficiency in the railway is to reduce ever dealing with the consequences of fragmentation? the burden on both the taxpayer and the fare payer. I am glad that she recognises that the only realistic way to Mr Hammond: The hon. Lady is hinting at the fact do that is to reduce the cost base. that, at the moment, far too much time and energy in the rail industry is spent on allocating blame for things Maria Eagle: In view of that, does the Secretary of that have happened rather than on working out how to State understand the anger felt by hard-pressed commuters prevent them from happening in future. We believe that up and down the country who are facing big fare aligning the financial interests of the train operators hikes—record fare rises of over 30%—over the next and the infrastructure operators, so that they both have three years and often worse overcrowding on services a stake in positive outcomes for passengers, is the that will not really improve over that period? The initial way forward. We will await Sir Roy McNulty’s final findings of Sir Roy’s review suggested that savings of recommendations and set out our proposals for the £1 billion could be found without cutting services, so reform of the industry on that basis. will the Secretary of State now commit to sharing the benefits of those savings with passengers, and rethink Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): In west Yorkshire, his plan to impose record fare rises? rail fares are set to go up by retail prices index plus 5% from next year, which is the biggest increase in the Mr Hammond: Sir Roy McNulty’s suggestion that country and 2% higher than in other areas. What will £1 billion a year could be found refers to 2017-18. It will the Secretary of State do to avert those crippling hikes take some time before we get to that level of achievement, for people in Leeds and the rest of the region? but it must remain our aspiration. In the meantime, the hon. Lady has answered her own question. Overcrowding Mr Hammond: I cannot avoid the increases in prices is a key issue, and if we are to address it we must to which the hon. Lady refers. They are partly driven by continue to invest in additional rolling stock and specific increases in rolling stock to alleviate overcrowding infrastructure on our railways, as we have committed to in the area. In the medium term, as I said in answer to do. I am afraid that means that the relief that passengers the previous question, we must drive efficiency in the seek will not come in the next couple of years, although rail industry, and ensure that the cost base of our it will come. railway becomes comparable with those of other European countries, so that the upward pressure on fares can be alleviated. Traffic Lights
Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I accept what 3. Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): If the Secretary of State has said about the cost of the rail he will consider the merits of authorising traffic signals network, but does he nevertheless agree that the quality to display only flashing amber aspects in the early of passenger experience, which goes far beyond mere hours of the morning to reduce journey times. [36295] 427 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 428
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport been approved to proceed, so there will be no more (Norman Baker): The Department is looking at various funding available during the funding review period. options for traffic signalling during quieter periods of However, that scheme is value for money and I expect it the day and the flashing amber signal is just one of the to go forward in a future spending review period. techniques being considered among many others. However, in the interests of safety, it is important to ensure that Congestion Charging (West London) any signalling technique provides a consistent and unambiguous message to all road users. 5. Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con): What assessment he has made of the effects of the Mr Baron: May I point out to the Minister that other ending of the west London extension of the congestion countries operate such a system, but in a written response charge zone. [36298] to me the Government stated, somewhat condescendingly: “The British motorist would find this system confusing.” The Minister of State, Department for Transport Will the Minister consider a pilot scheme for such a (Mrs Theresa Villiers): The removal of the western system, perhaps in my constituency, which would speed extension of the congestion charging zone is a devolved journeys and reduce emissions? matter for the Mayor of London.
Norman Baker: As I mentioned, we are having a Angie Bray: Does the Minister of State agree that one review of signs generally and that suggestion is being of the beneficial effects will be for those who live or try considered as part of that process. The difficulty is that to run small businesses around the perimeter of the the flashing amber signal already has a specific legal zone, for whom life was made very expensive? However, meaning in this country, where it is used to indicate perhaps the biggest benefit will be for City Hall in the legal precedence for pedestrians at pelican crossings. restoration of a reputation for proper democratic That means that we could not authorise a trial or the governance. use of the flashing amber signal for any other application without first changing the meaning of the signal in Mrs Villiers: My hon. Friend has a strong record in regulations. A dual meaning might not be a very good her former capacity as a London Assembly Member for idea. representing the views of residents on this issue, as she has in her current capacity as the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton. There are always pros and Road Schemes (East Yorkshire) cons to be considered in relation to the impact on business of congestion charging schemes. No doubt 4. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): when the Mayor made the decision on the western What assessment he has made of the effect of the outcome extension zone he will have taken on board her concerns of the comprehensive spending review on road improvement about the impact on small businesses on the periphery schemes in east Yorkshire. [36296] and boundary of that zone.
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Notwithstanding the Hammond): There were three road improvement schemes fact that this is a devolved matter, the Department in east Yorkshire under consideration at the time the provides a great deal of resources to the Mayor of spending review was announced. Of those schemes, the London for traffic issues. His removal of the western Beverley integrated transport scheme has been classified extension has cut £70 million annually from his revenue as in the development pool and the A164 Humber stream. Did the Department express any concerns at bridge to Beverley improvement scheme has been classified any time about the effect of that cut on funding for as in the pre-qualification pool. Both are currently future transport schemes in London? The rest of us are subject to the prioritisation process set out in the document paying higher charges and fares as a result of that hole that was made available to Members in this House on in the Mayor’s budget. 26 October. The Highways Agency scheme to improve the A63 Mrs Villiers: This is a devolved matter. The settlement Castle street in Hull has been identified as a scheme was established by the Labour Government, who made with a positive business case for potential construction it clear that congestion charging matters were rightly in future spending review periods. for the Mayor of London to decide and not for Ministers in Whitehall. Diana Johnson: As the Secretary of State has said, in the October announcement the upgrade of the A63 was Rail Franchising put back until at least 2015. Since then, we have had the announcement from Siemens that it will develop green 6. Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) energy industry along the Humber. In light of that (Con): What plans he has for the reform of rail announcement, will the Secretary of State think again? franchising; and if he will make a statement. [36299] The A63 upgrade would have a positive impact on the economic regeneration of east Yorkshire and local 11. Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): businesses are really pushing for it. What plans he has for reform of rail franchising; and if he will make a statement. [36304] Mr Hammond: I am aware of the relevance of the A63, having sat in a traffic queue on it not so long ago. The Minister of State, Department for Transport The Highways Agency budget for the current spending (Mrs Theresa Villiers): On 19 January, the Government review period has been allocated to schemes that have set out a new approach to franchising, taking account 429 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 430 of the consultation that took place last summer. We difficult to get a return on significant investments of expect the reforms to deliver a railway that is more that sort, made it difficult for the private sector to responsive to passenger needs and provides better value maximise its investment in the railways. The rail franchising for taxpayer investment. reform will therefore help to deliver the sort of improvements that the hon. Lady talks about. Andrew Jones: I thank the Minister for that answer. Last week, the east coast main line announced a new Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): As part of the direct service from London to Harrogate—the first for consultation on the inter-city west coast main line, will 20 years—after some excellent local work promoting the Minister consider the negative impacts of the use of the economic case for that service. As the new franchise power boxes and mechanical signalling on the ability of requirements for the east coast main line are developed, franchise holders servicing the north Wales coast to will that economic case see Harrogate-London links provide an enhanced level of service to my constituents? built into those requirements? Mrs Villiers: We do not seek to micro-manage Network Mrs Villiers: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Rail’s decisions on signalling—we take a technologically I have been impressed with the work done by him, the agnostic approach to that—but we encourage it to Harrogate chamber of commerce and Harrogate business deliver its renewals and upgrades in the most cost-effective interests to make the case for improved rail services way possible, and I am happy to pass on my hon. between Harrogate and London. I would encourage Friend’s points to Network Rail, so that it can take them to continue that input when the consultation takes them on board in its decisions. place on re-letting the east coast franchise. We will, of course, take those representations into account in our David Wright (Telford) (Lab): The demise of the decisions on Harrogate services. Wrexham-Shropshire service is particularly sad. Local people really valued it, not just because it provided the Eric Ollerenshaw: Given the announcement last week direct link to London, but because the staff provided a that the west coast main line franchise will be up for superb service. Would the Minister be willing to meet renewal, how soon does the Minister think we will see MPs from all parties with constituencies along the line the extra carriages and, perhaps, the extra trains that we to discuss how we can consider not just how open-access need to relieve the severe overcrowding on the line, services operate generally, but how we can put the line particularly for my constituents in Lancaster? through Shropshire and up to north Wales back into the west coast franchise? Mrs Villiers: The Government will be funding 106 extra carriages on the west coast main line, which are due to Mrs Villiers: I would be happy to have that meeting. I come into operation with the new franchise. Some of encourage the hon. Gentleman, as I did the right hon. those carriages will be available in a new train that will Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), to take part in the be available earlier, once its testing period has been west coast main line consultation under way. completed. At that point, it will be available for Virgin to sub-lease, if ordinary commercial terms can be agreed. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): How will the Minister’s franchising reforms facilitate much-needed Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Will the Minister investment, both trackside and on train, in smarter give an assurance that under the new franchise services signalling, such as in the world-class systems developed to north Wales, in particular, will not be reduced, especially by Invensys in my constituency, which I would be given the news this week that services from Wrexham to delighted to show her, if she would be so kind as to visit Marylebone will cease as of Friday? Chippenham?
Mrs Villiers: We are engaged in a consultation on the Mrs Villiers: I shall certainly try to fit a visit to level of services and the configuration that will go into Chippenham into my diary. As I said to the hon. the west coast main line. We fully appreciate the importance Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), I believe of the services in Wales, including north Wales, and I that longer franchises with more flexibility will encourage would encourage the right hon. Gentleman to take part private sector investment in the railways. Longer franchises in the consultation. Of course, we are very much aware in the past for Chiltern Railways have enabled the train of passengers’ disappointment at the closure of the operator to become involved in signalling work. However, Wrexham and Shropshire service, and we will take that we have to acknowledge that major infrastructure works on board in the decisions that we make on the west will need to continue to attract public funding, although coast line. there is no reason to believe that rail franchising reform could not assist private sector and train operator Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): Could the involvement in improving signalling. Minister say how the reform of rail franchising will support infrastructure investment, especially the necessary Uninsured Drivers electrification on the Wrexham to Bidston line, for example, which runs through my constituency? 7. Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): What steps he is taking to reduce the incidence of people driving while Mrs Villiers: I believe that longer franchises, which uninsured. [36300] are a key part of our reform, will provide stronger incentives for private sector investment in improving The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport stations, rolling stock and—potentially—infrastructure. (Norman Baker): I am pleased to confirm that a new The current short franchises, through which it was offence of keeping a vehicle with no insurance is being 431 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 432 introduced, and that supporting regulations were laid HGV drivers cannot—can she give some consideration before Parliament on 11 January 2011. Enforcement of as to how quickly this glaring anomaly can be cleared the offence is planned to commence in the spring. The up? scheme for continuous insurance enforcement identifies uninsured drivers by comparing the Driver and Vehicle Mrs Villiers: We will certainly be working hard to get Licensing Agency’s vehicles database with the motor the consultation document out as quickly as possible. insurance database. However, given that what is being contemplated is a relaxation of current road safety rules, I am sure that Gareth Johnson: I am grateful to the Minister for his my right hon. Friend will agree that this is not something reply. I am sure that he would agree that uninsured to be undertaken lightly. We must ensure that we take drivers are selfish in the extreme. Can he tell the House the time to consider all the relevant factors to ensure how much money will be saved for responsible drivers that it is safe to make the change. as a result of the changes, and will he also confirm that the police will retain the power to seize vehicles that are Coastguard Services uninsured?
Norman Baker: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s 10. Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): welcome for the steps that the Government are taking. I When he plans to publish his proposals for the can confirm that the police will continue to have the modernisation of Her Majesty’s coastguard. [36303] power to seize vehicles, and he may be interested to know that last year they seized 180,000 such vehicles. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Around 1.4 million vehicles are uninsured, which costs Hammond): The consultation on proposals to reconfigure responsible motorists around £30 extra in their premiums coastguard maritime rescue co-ordination centres was each year. We think that the measure will save about launched on 16 December and will run until 24 March £6 for each motorist. 2011. After that all responses received will be reviewed and analysed before we make a decision. At present Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Does there is no final timetable for the decision, as the time the Minister not recognise that insurance costs, particularly required for analysis will depend on the volume of for young drivers, are reaching ridiculous levels? The responses received. In our view, it is more important to AA premium index suggests that they could rise by make the right decision than to make a quick decision. 40% this year, which he is making worse with the rise in insurance premium tax. Given that fines are so low, will Gemma Doyle: I have been contacted by several that not mean that people will sometimes be incentivised constituents who are concerned about the proposal to to avoid paying their insurance? What on earth will he close Clyde maritime rescue co-ordination centre. They be doing about that? are worried that the loss of local knowledge will risk coastal safety in and around the waters of the Clyde. Norman Baker: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Will the Secretary of State give a commitment to listen point, and my Department is in discussions with the carefully to those concerns about the closure of coastguard Ministry of Justice about that specific matter. However, stations and, in particular, rethink the proposal to close I hope that he would also welcome the steps taken today Clyde MRCC? to clamp down on uninsured drivers, who are costing motorists more money. Mr Hammond: Of course we will give careful HGV Drivers (Diabetes) consideration to all the representations made in the consultation. I should emphasise to hon. Members that we are talking about search and rescue co-ordination 9. Mr Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) centres. They are not front-line delivery points; they are (LD): When his Department plans to publish its the centres that manage and co-ordinate the calls coming consultation on changing the law to allow UK nationals in, and task the front-line rescuers. The driver for the with diabetes to drive heavy goods vehicles in the UK. change is managing the work load and interlinking the [36302] centres across the country, so that they can best manage fluctuations in work load and provide a 24-hour competent The Minister of State, Department for Transport service. (Mrs Theresa Villiers): The Department for Transport plans to publish the consultation document very soon. We welcome views from anyone interested in the proposed Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): Have not the changes and will consider all representations before regional fire centre proposals, which were based on making our final decisions. pretty much the same principles, been abandoned? Was not consideration given, before the consultation paper Mr Kennedy: I thank the Minister for that reply. She was published, to where this could end? will be aware from correspondence that my question arises from a rather long-running constituency case, Mr Hammond: Indeed; I looked at precisely that which is not untypical of those of other hon. Members point. The difference is that fire and rescue services are across the Chamber. Given that the EU directive dates localised—there are different fire and rescue services back to August 2009 and that we have an utterly inconsistent around the country. Her Majesty’s Coastguard is a position in the UK—registered diabetic heavy goods national service, operating as such, and the reconfiguration vehicle drivers from elsewhere in the European Union will provide nationally networked co-ordination centres can drive on our roads, whereas UK-registered diabetic that will deliver across the whole country. 433 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 434
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Today’s On the wider question of rural buses, what assurance Liverpool Echo calls into question the genuineness of can my hon. Friend give to those living in rural areas the consultation on the coastguard service. If we take that we will have a more extensive service—or at least as into account the scrapping of Nimrod, the ending of good a service as we have at the moment? the emergency towing vessel contracts, the selling off of air-sea rescue, the prospective closure of coastguard Norman Baker: I share the condolences expressed by stations and the sacking of coastguards, what assurance my hon. Friend about that tragic accident. can the Secretary of State give to shipping, where there We are conscious of the importance of rural areas, which is real concern about the future of safety? Can he assure is why the issue was flagged up in the local transport us that there will be no compromising of maritime White Paper. I changed the guidance on concessionary safety? fares to ensure that the special position of rural and long-distance routes was specifically recognised in that Mr Hammond: It is a bit rich for the hon. Gentleman regard. We have been in touch with local authorities to to talk about the selling off of search and rescue, when look at innovative schemes, such as dial-a-ride and so the search and rescue private finance initiative project forth, to ensure that local services, which are essential to was initiated by the Government whom he served and rural areas, are maintained. had been running for at least three years before the general election. On the specific point about the Liverpool Roadside Inspection coastguard co-ordination centre, Ministers looked at the proposals put by officials in the Department and 13. Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): judged that the cases between Belfast and Liverpool How many commercial vehicles underwent Vehicle and and between Stornoway and Shetland were so close that Operator Services Agency roadside inspections in the consultation should go forward while making it December 2010. [36306] clear that there was a judgment call between those two pairs of stations. There was not a clear and definitive The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport business case, which I think is what has given rise to the (Norman Baker): Approximately 7,000 vehicles underwent story in the Liverpool Echo to which the hon. Gentleman Vehicle and Operator Services Agency roadside inspections has referred. in December 2010. That was a combination of trucks Bus Services and trailers, cars, buses and vans. That number comprised just over 17,000 checks of individual areas, such as 12. Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): What plans checks for mechanical defects or drivers’ hours offences. he has for the future of bus services. [36305] Andrew Bridgen: I thank the Minister for that answer. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport However, considering that the weather in much of (Norman Baker): My aim is to improve the entire bus December was so severe that it had a major impact on journey for passengers. That means better integration economic growth in this country and caused major between bus and rail services, better passenger information, disruption to the transport infrastructure, does he agree smarter and more integrated ticketing, greener buses that VOSA should have a much more flexible and and better accessibility for people with reduced mobility. business-friendly attitude to conducting roadside checks, That will be achieved through incentives for commercial when hauliers and transport operators are struggling to bus operators, funding local transport schemes through supply the economy during severe weather conditions? the local sustainable transport fund, but, above all, through operators and local transport authorities working Norman Baker: I sympathise with my hon. Friend’s together. point, and he may be happy to know that VOSA did take a pragmatic approach to enforcement during the Mr Wright: In my area, Stagecoach is blackmailing recent unusually difficult weather. In fact, in December Hartlepool borough council once again by claiming 2010 it carried out only 60% of the tests it carried out in that it cannot run an evening bus service without getting 2009. It has also taken account of a number of relaxations yet more public money. Stagecoach made £126 million that the Government have made to drivers’hours regulations profit from its bus operations last year, but seemingly because of the weather, and it has had regard to the cannot operate an evening service after 7 o’clock in inevitable delays that such weather can cause to journeys. Hartlepool. It is very clear that the current system is not However, we must ensure that all journeys on our roads working, so will the Minister bring forward proposals are safe. to re-regulate local bus services? Norman Baker: There is, in fact, a large range of Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): The Minister powers available to local authorities, not least through will be aware that there is real concern among staff who the Local Transport Act 2008, which enables quality work at VOSA that the testing transformation programme, partnerships, and even quality contracts, to be established, with the move towards private sector test stations and so if his local authority feels that it has an unsatisfactory the closure of the VOSA test station network, is privatisation relationship with the bus company in question, it is by the back door. Will he tell the House why there is open to it to look at the options available in legislation. such a push towards private sector test stations, and will he confirm that privatisation is not on the agenda? Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I hope the whole House will join me in extending condolences Norman Baker: I assure the hon. Lady that the objective to the parents, family and friends of the 12-year-old boy of the change is to make the arrangements more accessible. tragically killed while crossing the A64 to catch the That, not her rather lurid explanation, is driving the school bus. changes. 435 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 436
Topical Questions T2. [36314] Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Has the Department carried out a study of the likely effects of massive rail and bus fare increases on the T1. [36313] Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) number of people who are able to use such services in (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental the future? responsibilities. Mr Hammond: The Department did, of course, carry The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip out the usual equalities impact study that is required, Hammond): Since I last answered questions, I have before making the proposals. There is a hidden premise published details of our proposed route for high-speed behind the hon. Gentleman’s question. Nobody increased rail, launched the local transport White Paper, including rail fares ahead of inflation happily or gladly. The the bidding guidance for the £560 million local sustainable decision whether to protect the planned investment in transport fund, set out our proposals for reforms to the reducing overcrowding by delivering additional rolling rail franchising system, which will deliver better value stock, or to scrap that programme, was a difficult one. for money for taxpayers and better service to passengers, We decided to protect investment for the medium and and announced tough new measures to tackle uninsured long term, and unfortunately that means three years of driving. further above-inflation rail fare increases.
Mark Lancaster: Investment in the west coast main T4. [36316] Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): line is most welcome but mainly benefits long-distance Many of my constituents and those of other Members travellers, while short-distance travellers remain were severely disrupted by the effects of the weather on overcrowded. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel airports in London and elsewhere. Does the Minister for Milton Keynes commuters? agree that the Civil Aviation Authority needs more powers to assess the situation and hold airport operators to account? Mr Hammond: There are two separate lights at the [Interruption.] end of the tunnel— Neither of them is a Mrs Villiers: My hon. Friend has raised an important train coming the other way. First, as my right hon. issue. There was real concern about the way in which Friend the Minister of State said earlier, 106 additional Heathrow dealt with the severe weather. That is one of Pendolino carriages for the west coast main line have the reasons for our plans to reform airport regulation, been ordered and will come into service in 2012. Secondly, which include a new licensing system that will indeed as the proposed HS2 line, if approved, is built it will give the CAA more powers to ensure that airports are provide massive additional capacity on the London-west properly prepared for winter. midlands route, capacity and will be freed up for new high-speed, longer-distance commuter services from places Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) such as Milton Keynes to London. (SNP): The marine environment is dangerous, and we are fortunate to have Stornoway coastguard, which is John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): based in my constituency. However, I have been told Ministers have spent weeks creating confusion over fuel that the Government’s reorganisation proposals are not prices. Will the Secretary of State say what he plans to accompanied by any proper risk assessment. Is that do to help hard-pressed motorists? If he is so concerned true? now, will he say whether he thought it was fair to impose a VAT hike on fuel just three weeks ago? Mr Hammond: Of course the proposals have been risk-assessed. They have been around for more than two Mr Hammond: The hon. Gentleman is a spokesman years, since before the general election, and there is a for a Government who proposed the fuel price increases long slow-burning fuse behind them. They are now out that are now coming into effect, and who were planning for consultation, and the hon. Gentleman can and, I am to put VAT up, as we discovered from leaked documents sure, will make forcefully the case for retaining the before the general election. I am pleased to say that it is station in Stornoway. not my business to do anything about this, as it is a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. T5. [36317] Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): Can the Minister give us a likely date for the decision on electrification of the Great Western line to T3. [36315] David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) Swindon and beyond? (Con): Some 84% of rail users are currently satisfied with their service. Does my right hon. Friend agree that Mrs Villiers: My hon. Friend is a staunch campaigner that is welcome news, and will she elaborate on that for further electrification. We have already announced statement? electrification of the lines to Oxford, Newbury and Didcot, and we will shortly announce what further The Minister of State, Department for Transport electrification of the Great Western line can be achieved (Mrs Theresa Villiers): Obviously, we welcome the positive in co-ordination with the linked inter-city express response from the Passenger Focus survey. We are aware programme. that there is always a need to improve provision of services on the railways, and that is one of the main Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): reasons why we are supporting the work of the McNulty You will recall, Mr Speaker, the procedural exchange review to get costs down, to make it easier to deliver the that you and I had earlier this week about the failure of improvements that people want. the Department for Transport to answer questions about 437 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 438 river and port pilotage. The first question has now been car to the town. Can the relevant Minister confirm that answered inaccurately; as for the second, the Department under this Government local councils, communities refuses to publish the advice that it has received. This is and universities will continue to be able to implement a fundamental matter of safety. Will the Secretary of local solutions that suit the local needs of the town? State examine it personally and review the decision to refuse to publish the information, in order to give us The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport confidence that our pilots are properly trained? (Norman Baker): I am happy to give that assurance. The whole thrust of the Government is to free up councils, Mr Hammond: I am not aware of the written answer remove regulations and make it easier for councils to to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I will look it reach the correct arrangements in conjunction with up when I return to the Department, and I will write their communities. to him. Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): I heard what T6. [36318] Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): In my the Minister said about uninsured drivers, but what constituency, an average of 27 people a year are killed thought has he given to requiring drivers to put details or seriously injured in crashes involving young people. of their insurance on the car windscreen, which works That includes a tragic accident over the Christmas well in a number of other countries? period involving a friend of my son. Graduated driver licensing, enabling a new driver to proceed to a full Mr Hammond: The hon. Gentleman may know that licence over a period, has been shown in many the Department has introduced a programme of rolling countries to reduce the number of casualties in that monitoring of insurance, where anyone whose vehicle is vulnerable group. What discussions has the Secretary uninsured now has to make what is, in effect, a statutory of State had about introducing such an approach to off-road notice declaration. The police will have access improving road safety in this country? to the database and will be able to monitor, in real time, whether vehicles are insured or uninsured. That will give rise to a much more effective level of enforcement. Mr Hammond: My hon. Friend will know that the United Kingdom actually has an enviable record on T8. [36320] Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) road safety. Many of the countries that operate graduated (Con): I know that the Minister is aware that Fleetwood licensing suffer worse safety records than the UK. Our has a railway line that has been redundant since the policy is to avoid additional regulation whenever possible, 1960s but which has most of its infrastructure intact. and we would be very concerned about imposing any What hope can she offer my constituents that there may regulation that reduced the mobility of young people be a chance of reopening the line and providing much- who had acquired driving licences, because of the impact needed regeneration to the town? that it would have on their participation in the labour market and in further and higher education. Mrs Villiers: I know that my hon. Friend has championed this cause, and I enjoyed my visit to the disused rail line. Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Apropos Programmes such as he outlines can confer significant the disruption at Heathrow, the temperature has dropped local benefits, but it is primarily for the local authorities again today. Ministers need not go abroad to find to identify the funding to restore railway lines and, examples of the way in which airports can cope with importantly, to identify the funding for any ongoing snow. Aberdeen airport, which is also owned by BAA, subsidy that is needed. Local authorities may well wish managed to cope perfectly well with 2 feet of snow, to consider those options in order to enhance economic while Heathrow was closed for nearly two weeks because growth in their areas. of 2 inches of snow. What guarantee will the Government give passengers—not just those like me, but the many Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): What assessment people who travel through Heathrow, which is one of has been made of increasing fuel prices and the rising the major hubs—that such disruption will not occur costs of motoring in rural areas, particularly for lower- again? income households?
Mrs Villiers: We must be realistic. When the weather Mr Hammond: No specific assessment has been made is as severe as that which we witnessed before Christmas, by my Department, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman there is bound to be some disruption. I pay tribute to that independent assessments suggest that between 1997 airports such as Aberdeen, which worked very hard to and 2010 the real cost of motoring has declined by 7%. deal with it—as did Gatwick—but we must recognise that Heathrow airport faces special challenges that make it tougher to respond to such conditions. Heathrow is WOMEN AND EQUALITIES conducting a review, and the Department is carrying out an investigation through the South East Airports Taskforce. There may be lessons that we can learn from The Minister for Women and Equalities was asked— measures taken by other transport systems, such as the imposition of emergency timetables when severe weather Flexible Working seems likely to reduce capacity significantly. 1. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): What T7. [36319] Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Some of the residential areas in Loughborough face Business, Innovation and Skills on the effects on gender considerable pressure on parking as a result of having equality in the workplace of her proposals for flexible houses occupied by students, each of whom brings a working. [36321] 439 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 440
The Secretary of State for the Home Department and The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): Policy Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): responsibility for human trafficking rests with the Minister I have had several discussions with ministerial colleagues for Immigration. Combating human trafficking, including on these issues. Flexibility in the workplace is good for the sexual exploitation of women and girls, is a key all employees—men and women. On gender equality priority for the Government. We are committed to specifically, flexible working allows many women with tackling organised crime groups who profit from this caring responsibilities to continue in work. Evidence human misery, and to protecting victims. Tackling organised also shows that flexibility is good for business and good immigration crime, including trafficking, is a high priority for society. This Government are committed to extending for the Serious Organised Crime Agency, of which the the right to request flexible working to all employees, UK Human Trafficking Centre is now part. and we expect to begin consulting on the details shortly. Pamela Nash: I thank the Minister for her answer, Julian Smith: Does my right hon. Friend agree that as and I appreciate that this subject also falls under the we develop important policies in the area of equality we category of immigration. Given that the European Union must avoid adding to the regulatory burden on small directive on trafficking would ensure that the UK provided business? Will she listen carefully to the thousands of further protection and support for victims, does she very small businesses in Britain that are concerned by agree that we should enter into that commitment without some of these proposals? further delay? Mrs May: My hon. Friend is a great champion of small businesses and their concerns. I hope that he will Lynne Featherstone: We have said all along that we have seen from today’s announcement by the Department would look at what was happening in the European for Business, Innovation and Skills on the issue of directive. The wording was decided on the 13th, and the employment tribunals that the Government understand member states are now deciding whether to opt in or that there is a real difference between how small businesses not. When that has happened, we will take a look, and if can cope with regulation and that burden and how a there are further things that we think would be helpful, large business with a big human resources department we will make a decision then. can cope. We have already started discussions with the Federation of Small Businesses on flexible parental Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I welcome leave and flexible working, and we will be taking those the Government’s review of the policy on human trafficking. issues forward. We are concerned to ensure that anything Will the Minister tell us whether all non-governmental we do has the least possible administrative burden for organisations with an interest in this field, including the small businesses. all-party parliamentary group on human trafficking, are being consulted on the review? Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab): These measures on flexible working are welcome, but they will not be taken up if people are afraid that Lynne Featherstone: As far as I am aware, the NGOs their employer can still dismiss them without any are being consulted, although there is not a public consequences. Today, the Department for Business, consultation. Innovation and Skills is announcing measures to remove protection against unfair dismissal for people who have Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The Minister says been in jobs for less than two years. The right hon. Lady that her Government are making anti-trafficking a high will know that women are more likely than men to be in priority. Now that the directive has been completed, is jobs for less than two years and so, once again, they will she seriously saying that she is going to wait for other be harder hit by these proposals. There is no sign yet of states to make a decision before Britain does so? Should an equality impact assessment from BIS this morning. not we be in the lead on this issue? The directive has Can she tell me whether one has been done? Has BIS been supported by Members of the European Parliament examined the impact on equality? What is she doing to of all parties represented in this House. Is it not time for stand up for women across the Government? her to adopt the directive? If she is not planning to do so yet, will she tell us why not? Mrs May: I remind the right hon. Lady that the Business Department is today issuing proposals, on which it is consulting, on the future of employment Lynne Featherstone: We have to look at it and then tribunals. It is important that we take action on employment make our decision. On 14 October, during the anti-slavery tribunals, because I have discovered from my discussions day debate, the Minister for Immigration announced a with businesses that they are often wary of issues such new strategy to tackle human trafficking that involved as flexible working and the extension of flexible working, disrupting the practice in the country of origin and on precisely because of the tribunal costs that they could incur, the border, as well as supporting the victims. We will were those regulations to be put in place. The right hon. have to see what the EU directive adds or does not add, Lady asked what I was doing to stand up for women. and we will make our decision in due course. We are going to extend the right to request flexible working to all, which is more than her Government did. Corporate Boards (Women) Trafficking (Women and Girls)
2. Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): What 3. John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): What steps she plans steps she plans to take to address the trafficking of to take to increase the number of women on corporate women and girls. [36322] boards. [36324] 441 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 442
The Secretary of State for the Home Department and other place would permit ceremonies within religious Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): establishments. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that Lord Davies has been appointed by the Government to the Government do not intend to introduce compulsion look at how obstacles can be removed to allow more to religious organisations that do not want to have civil women to make it on to corporate boards. We look partnerships in their buildings? forward to his recommendations for a business-led strategy, and we will respond in due course. Measures that we are Mrs May: My hon. Friend raises an important point. taking, such as flexible working and shared parental This was a significant part of the debate when Lord leave, will also help to address some of the barriers to Alli’s amendment to the then Equality Bill went through progression that women face in the workplace. in the House of Lords before the general election. It is clear in his amendment that this is a permissive power, John Glen: A recent Crown Prosecution Service report and that is the basis on which the Government are by Dr Catherine Hakim found that women were more operating. We have no intention of introducing any likely to reach the top in business in countries such as element of compulsion. It will be for religious groups the United States, where there are relatively few female- and faith groups to decide whether they wish to take up specific employee rights, as opposed to Scandinavian this opportunity. countries, which have lots of parental leave and much more job segregation. Will the Government consider Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I do not think anybody putting much more emphasis on support in the workplace, wants a form of compulsion that forces churches to do rather than having a quota system, which many women anything they do not want to in this field. That is a bit find demeaning? of a red herring. The right hon. Lady has said that the Government are considering allowing the use of religious Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing rituals, ceremony and symbols at civil partnerships. If out that there is varied experience across the world with she is going to do that for civil partnerships, may I urge regard to what works in ensuring that women can get to her to do it for civil weddings? Many people do not the top. The Government have no intention of introducing want to get married in church but would none the less legislation on quotas in this area. We will listen to what like to have some religious readings or music. Lord Davies says, and I have been party to some of the round-table discussions that he has had. From what I Mrs May: In response to the hon. Gentleman’s first have seen so far, I am sure that he will come forward comment about no compulsion, I am grateful that he with some very practical ways in which we can help to supports Government policy on that issue. He is right unlock the barriers to women reaching their place on that extending the ability to have religious elements to a corporate boards. It is this Government’s firm determination civil partnership ceremony or to hold such partnership to do more to ensure that more women are on corporate ceremonies on religious premises raises an issue about boards. the equality with civil marriage. We are taking steps as regards the Lord Alli amendment and we will make Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Will the announcements in due course. Minister for Women and Equalities confirm that this great panjandrum Lord Davies, who is going to get Body Image (Media Representation) more women on to boards, is a man? 6. Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): What Mrs May: Yes. assessment she has made of the effect on the well-being of women and girls of body image representations in the media. [36327] Civil Partnership Ceremonies The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): I 4. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): What her would like to congratulate my hon. Friend on her policy is on the hosting of civil partnership ceremonies tireless commitment to this area of work. I, too, remain in religious establishments. [36325] deeply worried about this issue. I have met too many people, both male and female, whose lives have been The Secretary of State for the Home Department and affected by negative feelings about their body shape. Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): Recently I convened a group of experts to discuss our In June 2010, the Government published “Working for shared concerns and the evidence that they had assembled. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Equality”, which I am working with them and with relevant industries to made a commitment to talk to interested groups about identify non-legislative ways of tackling the issue. what the next step should be for civil partnerships, including on this issue. The Government have held a Jo Swinson: Girlguiding UK regularly surveys young number of meetings on the topic with various groups, women and girls in the country and consistently shows including those representing faith groups, lesbian, gay that girls are unhappy with the prevalence of heavily and bisexual people and the registration service. We will airbrushed images and the ultra-thin ideal in the media. announce the next steps in due course. The Committee of Advertising Practice, which sets the advertising rules, is either oblivious or complacent about Bob Blackman: I thank my right hon. Friend for this problem, however, recently stating in a letter that it that answer. Many religious groups are openly hostile has to the concept of civil partnerships because it offends “seen very few ads that are targeted at children which appear to their religious doctrine. Lord Alli’s amendment in the have been airbrushed”, 443 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 444 and that it does not think that this is “a widespread Mr Raab: I thank the Minister for that answer and practice”. Will the Minister reassure the House that she those clarifications. Does she agree that making maternity will not let the advertising industry get away with dismissing leave transferable will help to eliminate anti-male this issue? discrimination in the workplace and will give couples greater choice in addressing the career-family balance together? Lynne Featherstone: I can assure my hon. Friend that the advertising industry is more than well aware both of Mrs May: My hon. Friend raises the issue of work-life her work and of the Government’s intention to work balance and choices for families. The introduction of with interested partners on this issue. I am sure that flexible parental leave will do two important things. Members of all parties recognise that it is a real issue First, it will give families the choice to decide which for girls, women and young men in this country. parent stays at home to look after the child in the early stages, beyond a period that will be restricted for the State Pension Age mother only. Secondly, it means that, in future, employers will not know whether it will be the male or the female in front of them seeking employment who will take time 7. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): off to look after a baby. I think that is an important step What discussions she has had with the Secretary of in dealing with discrimination. We should try to get State for Work and Pensions on the effect on women of away from gender warfare and the politics of difference, changes to the state pension age. [36328] as my hon. Friend has said, but I suggest to him that labelling feminists as “obnoxious bigots” is not the way The Minister of State, Department for Work and forward. Pensions (Steve Webb): I wrote to and met the Equality and Human Rights Commission during the Government’s Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): review into the increase in state pension age to 66 to Last night’s television programme “Posh and Posher” ensure that equality issues were fully considered. A full observed that there are more male Cabinet members equality impact assessment was also published as part from one Oxford college than there are women of any of the Government’s White Paper, which sets out the background in the Cabinet. Given that, does the Minister effect on women of changes to the state pension age. for Women and Equalities agree with the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) that her work colleagues get a “raw deal” at work because of feminist “bigots” Luciana Berger: Will the Minister please update the being unreasonable on issues such as equal pay? House on the coalition agreement, which committed to make no change to the state pension age for women Mrs May: I think I caught the hon. Lady’s gist in before 2020? relation to membership of the Cabinet, and I simply point out that she should look at the balance in the Steve Webb: The hon. Lady is not accurately quoting previous Cabinet under the Labour Government. The the coalition agreement. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that he has Chancellor made it clear before the election that the a commitment to ensure that a third of ministerial pension age would not be 66 for men before 2016 or for places are taken up by women by the end of the Parliament. women before 2020, and we have kept to that. Custodial Sentences (Mothers) Employment Law (Gender Discrimination) 9. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for 8. Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): Justice on custodial sentences for women with children. What steps she is taking to eliminate discrimination in [36330] employment law on the grounds of gender. [36329] The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): No The Secretary of State for the Home Department and recent discussions have been held on this issue. Sentencing Minister for Women and Equalities (Mrs Theresa May): is entirely a matter for the courts, which take account of We are committed to tackling discrimination in the all the circumstances of the offender and the offence. workplace. The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to This will include consideration of whether or not the discriminate against men or women because—the answer offender is a primary carer. We have a continuing I have here says because of “sex at work”, but I think it programme of work under way to divert women away means on the basis of gender—or when providing an from custody for those who do not pose a risk to the employment service. We will shortly be launching a public. We must ensure that women who offend are consultation on the coalition commitment to encouraging successfully rehabilitated, whether they serve sentences shared parenting from the earliest stages of pregnancy, in custody or in the community. including through a system of flexible parental leave. We want to make changes to ensure that the law better David Mowat: I thank the Minister for that response. supports real families juggling work and family life and She will be aware that, according to the Corston report, helps businesses that employ them. Some interim measures one third of custodial sentences to women go to women are already in place. From April this year new parents who are lone parents. That has severe knock-on effects will be able to share a period of paid leave through the to their children. What further guidelines can the Minister introduction of additional paternity leave. issue in this area? 445 Oral Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 446
Lynne Featherstone: Yes, we have taken the Corston Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Can recommendations very seriously and we are developing the Minister say whether the Ministry of Justice is on a strategy to ensure that the women’s estate is fit for target to reduce the number of women in custody by purpose in both custodial and community settings. We 400, as has previously been agreed? are also following on with programmes to divert women away from custody: more than £10 million has been provided to deliver 44 community-based interventions for women to tackle the underlying causes of their Lynne Featherstone: I am not in a position to say, offending as part of robust community sentencing. because I have not had that discussion this morning. 447 27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 448
Business of the House when he received a letter from Mr Adams applying for the Chiltern hundreds or, if he received no such application, explain on what basis he appointed Mr Adams to the 11.34 am post previously mentioned, given that “Erskine May” Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): Will the Leader states that those offices are of the House give us the business for next week? “given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to any Member who applies for them”? The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Does the Leader of the House agree that it is time we Young): The business of the House for next week is as changed these ancient ways of enabling Members to follows: step down and moved to a simple system whereby a Member can write to you, Mr Speaker, to resign. MONDAY 31 JANUARY—Second Reading of the Health and Social Care Bill. Last week, the Leader of the House said in answer to a question that TUESDAY 1FEBRUARY—Conclusion of consideration in Committee of the European Union Bill (Day 5). “this Government did something that the previous Government refused to do—we set up the Backbench Business Committee”— WEDNESDAY 2FEBRUARY—Opposition Day [10th Allotted [Official Report, 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 1025.] Day]. There will be a debate on the performance of the I gently point out to him, in the interests of accuracy, Business, Innovation and Skills Department followed that the decision to set up that Committee was in fact by a debate on the future of the Public Forest Estate in taken by the House on 4 March 2010, when we were in England. Both debates will arise on an Opposition motion, government and Members agreed to a motion moved followed by a motion to approve European documents by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for relating to the Court of Auditors’ 2009 report. Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman). THURSDAY 3FEBRUARY—Motion relating to consumer Can we have a debate on the Government’s handling credit regulation and debt management, followed by a of the economy? Only a few weeks ago, the Chancellor general debate on reform of legal aid. The subjects for assured us that the recovery was on track. On Tuesday, both debates were nominated by the Backbench Business we discovered that growth has in fact stalled. The Committee. Chancellor blamed the snow. It is not the wrong kind of FRIDAY 4FEBRUARY—Private Members’ Bills. snow; it is the wrong kind of policies. That is why the The provisional business for the week commencing outgoing director general of the CBI, Sir Richard Lambert, 7 February will include: this week warned that the Government have no strategy for growth and criticised Ministers for being MONDAY 7FEBRUARY—Opposition Day [unallotted “careless of the damage they might do to business and to job day] [half day] [first part]. There will be a half-day creation” debate on a Scottish National party and Plaid Cymru motion. Yesterday, George Soros said that the cuts could not be implemented without pushing the economy into a recession. TUESDAY 8FEBRUARY—Second Reading of the Education Is it any wonder, therefore, that families up and down Bill. the country, who are worried about their jobs, rising WEDNESDAY 9FEBRUARY—Motions relating to the prices and falling incomes, are beginning to ask themselves police grant and local government finance reports. whether this lot know what they are doing? THURSDAY 10 FEBRUARY—Motion relating to voting Can we have a debate on the shambolic way in which by prisoners. The subject for this debate was nominated the counter-terrorism review has been conducted? Last by the Backbench Business Committee. Thursday, the Immigration Minister promised that the FRIDAY 11 FEBRUARY—Private Members’ Bills. draft emergency legislation on detention would be placed I should also like to inform the House that the in the Library of the House. It has still not appeared. business in Westminster Hall for 10 February will be: Will the Leader of the House tell his colleagues that when they promise to put something in the Library, THURSDAY 10 FEBRUARY—A debate on onshore wind Members expect it to be available soon? It is now all too energy. obvious that that legislation is not ready. In opposition, the Lib Dems criticised the Labour Hilary Benn: I am grateful to the Leader of the House Government’s approach to dealing with terrorism and for his statement. Will he clarify what the rest of the made another of those firm pledges—a firm pledge to business will be on 7 February, apart from the half-day scrap control orders. In the past few weeks there has Opposition debate he has just mentioned? been a lot of bravado briefing by the Deputy Prime Last Friday, the Member for Belfast West wrote to Minister, promising that the orders would go, yet what you, Mr Speaker, seeking to resign as a Member of was announced yesterday? Control orders by another Parliament, but as we know, such a letter has no effect, name—with curfews replaced by “overnight residence as the only way for a Member to resign is to apply for requirements”. Liberty is very unhappy this morning, the Chiltern hundreds. On Monday, the Treasury told saying that control orders have been “retained and the BBC that no such application had been received, rebranded”. Why has that happened? Because the and yet yesterday we were informed by the Prime Minister Government have rightly recognised that there is a that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had appointed threat to the public from which we need to be protected, Mr Adams as Baron of the Manor of Northstead. and the responsibility that comes from being in government The Chancellor’s power effectively to disqualify a has finally dawned even on the Deputy Prime Minister. Member must be exercised correctly. It does not seem Following the release of the extraordinary photographs that in this case that long-standing precedent was followed, showing the dismantling of the £4 billion fleet of Nimrod so can the Chancellor come to the House and tell us long-range reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft, which 449 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 450
[Hilary Benn] consistently raised the previous Government’s failure to enact the establishment of such a Committee, but my will then apparently be sliced up in an industrial shredder, predecessor as Leader of the House refused to bring can we have a statement from the Secretary of State for forward the relevant motions, so it was indeed this Defence on the letter that the six former defence chiefs Government who established the Backbench Business have sent today, describing the decision to destroy the Committee. I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman aircraft as “perverse” and warning that it will create ventures into that territory. “a massive gap in British security” On the economy, if only the right hon. Gentleman’s Finally, can we have a debate on the machinery of party had bequeathed to the coalition what we bequeathed government? Because it is pretty clear, from what has to Labour in 1997, we would not face the problems that been going on this week, that this Government are not we face today. We bequeathed a golden inheritance: fast actually very good at governing. growth, falling unemployment and decreasing inflation. Let us compare that with what Labour left behind: a Sir George Young: I am grateful to the right hon. trillion pounds of debt for the first time ever, the largest Gentleman for his points. The business for the week deficit in the G20 and in our peacetime history, and the after next is always provisional and changes are made, deepest and longest recession in the G20. He quoted so at this stage I cannot announce the business for the Richard Lambert, who also said that second half of that Monday, but it is unlikely to be “the tax and spending policies of the last Government created a Government legislation. substantial structural deficit…That’s what made substantial spending cuts inevitable, irrespective of who won the last election.” On the substantive issue the right hon. Gentleman He went on to say that raises about Gerry Adams, as the right hon. Gentleman said, Gerry Adams wrote on 20 January making it “public finances in the UK are in a mess, to a degree that threatens our long-term economic stability.” absolutely clear that he wanted to relinquish his seat and stand in the Irish general election. As Gerry Adams On counter-terrorism, the Home Secretary made a should have known, a Member of Parliament may not statement yesterday, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, resign; there are no means by which a Member may and answered some of the questions that he has raised. vacate his or her seat during the lifetime of a Parliament, The Government will subject draft emergency legislation other than by death, disqualification or expulsion. The on 28-day pre-charge detention to pre-legislative scrutiny. Chancellor of the Exchequer, therefore, in line with That is currently being drafted and will be deposited in long-standing precedent granted Mr Adams the office the Library of the House shortly. I was here when my of profit under the Crown of steward and bailiff of the hon. Friend, the Minister for Immigration made the Manor of Northstead, so we delivered Mr Gerry Adams statement last week. He did not give a specific time to the required destination, although he may have used when the draft legislation would go into the Library. We a vehicle and a route that was not of his choosing. will set out the suggested approach for the scrutiny when the draft Bill has been completed, although that Yesterday, Mr Speaker, you informed the House that, is, of course, a matter for the House. owing to that appointment, Gerry Adams was thereby disqualified from membership of the House by virtue of The decision to cancel the Nimrod project was not section 1 of the House of Commons Disqualification taken lightly by Ministers and service chiefs. It is a Act 1975. You also stated: consequence of the £38 billion deficit in the defence budget that we inherited from the outgoing Government. “The Chancellor of the Exchequer has exercised his responsibilities”; The project was nine years late and involved a cost increase of 300%. None of the nine aircraft was operational, and: only one was fully constructed and that one had not “He has done so in an entirely orderly way.”—[Official Report, passed its flight tests. The cancellation will save £2 billion 26 January 2011; Vol. 522, c. 405.] over 10 years. Since the Nimrod MR2 was taken out of During the subsequent exchanges, Members raised the service by the previous Government in March last year, hypothetical possibility of a future Chancellor appointing the impact has been mitigated by the use of other a Member without a firm application for a relevant post military assets, including Type 22 frigates, Merlin anti- from that Member. I find it inconceivable that such a submarine helicopters and Hercules C-130 aircraft, and situation would occur; it is a matter of constitutional by working with allies and partners where appropriate. principle that a Chancellor does not act without an unambiguous request from a Member to relinquish his Several hon. Members rose— or her seat. In this case, that request was a letter of resignation. In addition, there is a protection in the Mr Speaker: Order. A great many right hon. and hon. form of provision in the 1975 Act for a Member not Members are seeking to catch my eye, and I should like to accept any office that would lead to his or her to accommodate them all. Single, short supplementary disqualification. I have to say in response to the right questions and the characteristically pithy replies of the hon. Gentleman’s final point on the matter that this Leader of the House will be essential if I am to have a law on resignation from the House has served us well reasonable chance of doing so. for 260 years—and the Government have no plans to change it. Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): On the right hon. Gentleman’s next point, I am My constituents in Oxford West and Abingdon value amazed that he raises the issue of the Backbench Business their library services greatly, not just for lending, but for Committee. The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the the role that they play in their communities. I have Leader of the House of Commons, my hon. Friend the received hundreds of letters and e-mails about the proposals Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), and I to close the Summertown, Botley and Kennington libraries 451 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 452 in my constituency. The recent Westminster Hall debate Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s showed that there is interest in this subject from both strong feelings on the matter. The Public Bodies Bill is sides of the House. Will the Leader of the House currently in another place, and I hope it will reach this provide Government time for a debate not only on the House once the Lords have sorted themselves out. cultural and community value of libraries, but on how There will be an opportunity then for him to speak on we can continue to support them in the difficult economic that specific issue, but as I have just announced, there climate bequeathed to us by the previous Government’s will also be an Opposition day debate on it next Wednesday. irresponsible fiscal policies? I hope that he has read the written ministerial statement and seen that we are ensuring that public benefit is Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. written into the change. The Government have no plans There was a debate in Westminster Hall on library for a widespread disposal of assets in order to raise services on 25 January, and she might like to look at money. We want community trusts and local organisations that. I spent three years at Oxford and I am afraid that to take ownership of some of our valuable woods. I did not spend nearly as much time in the libraries as I should have. Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Instead of farcical exchanges about stewards and barons in relation Public libraries are a hugely valued service, which to resigning from the House, would it not be better, as allows free access to information and services. It is my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central important that her local authority has a strategy for any (Hilary Benn) has suggested, and as I did yesterday, if a reorganisation of its library service, which takes into simple letter of resignation were sufficient? Why should account the needs of local people and the views of the we keep a procedure simply because it has been in local Member of Parliament. As she may know, the existence for the number of years that the Leader of the Secretary of State has residual powers. She may wish to House mentioned? contact him if necessary. Sir George Young: For the last 13 years we had a Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): The Modernisation Committee and, to my knowledge, not Backbench Business Committee now meets on a Tuesday once did it consider the procedure for resignation, so it at 1 o’clock. As a result, far more Back Benchers come clearly did not think that it was a priority. The procedure to the Committee with ideas about what debates we has worked perfectly well for 260 years, and given all the should schedule. Another result is that more Back Benchers pressures on the House’s time, I wonder whether we are asking us why we continue to have to schedule should really give priority to this matter. debates on a Thursday. Of the 13 and a half days of debates that we have held in the Chamber, one has been Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): on a Monday, two and a half have been on Tuesdays—two In Crewe and Nantwich, many families lost significant of which were end-of-term debates—and 10 have been fees and deposits that they had paid to their children’s on Thursdays. Will the Leader of the House please nurseries, and had major disruption to their child care consider giving us days in different parts of the arrangements, when the company running them went parliamentary week? Will he also say when he will come bust recently. May we have a debate to discuss how up with an answer on how many additional days the parents can be better protected in such circumstances Backbench Business Committee will be given to allocate rather than being left exposed both financially and in to Members as a result of the extension of the parliamentary their home environment by finding themselves in a long timetable? queue of creditors?
Sir George Young: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for Sir George Young: I am very sorry to hear of the all the work that she is doing with her Committee, and I plight of those who have paid up front for child care or note her public service announcement about the new nursery places and then found that the provider has time for that Committee’s meeting. About one in three gone into liquidation. I shall raise the matter with of the days that we have allocated have not been Thursdays. ministerial colleagues at the Department for Business, We should not devalue Thursdays—they are important Innovation and Skills, who have responsibility for the days. However, I understand her request and I hope Insolvency Service, and I would point my hon. Friend’s shortly to be able to make some progress and to shift constituents to the local authority’s family information the centre of gravity a little away from Thursdays. On service, which may be able to help find alternative her final point, we will be having discussions, not only places for those who have been affected. on the allocation of Back-Bench business time, but on Opposition days and private Members’ days, to reflect Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): May we the likely extended length of the Session, subject to the have a debate on the prerogative powers of the Chancellor Fixed-term Parliaments Bill going through. of the Exchequer? Given that the Leader of the House informed us earlier that there is provision in legislation Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): I to refuse appointment to an office of profit under the have in my hand a piece of paper, which is the written Crown, will he confirm that since Gerry Adams—or statement on the future of the public forest estate in Baron Adams, as he is better known now—has now England. Does the Leader of the House share my been disqualified, it follows that he has indeed accepted disappointment, and that felt by all of us who are Crown office? committed to saving the public forests, that there was not an oral statement? Will he explain why there is not Sir George Young: The right hon. Gentleman is venturing to be a debate in Government time on the future of that into territory that is occupied by you, Mr Speaker, and valuable public asset? you made the announcement yesterday evening. Under 453 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 454
[Sir George Young] it is in order to split the Bill in Committee, so that part 3 could make its own way through both Chambers in that the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975, time. there is provision to refuse office. No refusal was received, so it was deemed to have been accepted. Sir George Young: I will put that proposition to my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, whose Bill it is. Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): The Leader of the House My hon. Friend will know that Westminster city council will be aware that yesterday afternoon, the Parliamentary is taking action, which I am sure he welcomes, to Assembly of the Council of Europe debated and voted remove the tents that are out there. I understand that on a report containing scathing criticism of the UK notices have been served, and I hope that follow-up for not granting thousands of prisoners their apparent action will be taken by the courts, and if necessary by right to vote, and recommending tougher sanctions the police. against the UK Government in respect of the implementation of decisions of the European Court of Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Human Rights. In view of that, will he explain what The Leader of the House is fully aware of the deep action the Government are taking to ensure that decisions angst on both sides of the House about yesterday’s concerning our judicial system will be made in Britain shambles over the resignation of the former Member by British law-makers? for Belfast West. Will he ask the Northern Ireland Office to confirm what role, if any, it played in persuading Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. the Chancellor to take the unprecedented steps that we As I announced a few moments ago, there will be an saw yesterday? opportunity for the House to debate the issue shortly in Backbench Business Committee time, and the relevant Sir George Young: I reject the assertion that what motion is now on the Order Paper. I have seen the happened yesterday was unprecedented. There are report to which she refers, and it actually sets the UK precedents for Members who write in to resign without apart from the other states mentioned. It calls on us to specifically asking for Crown office to then be appointed, implement the judgment of the ECHR on prisoner so what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor did was voting, and notes that the Government have announced perfectly correct in delivering the hon. Member’s wish that they will do so. We are bound by that judgment and to resign, and he followed precedent. take our legal obligations seriously, but as I have said, we will listen very carefully to the debate in a fortnight’s John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): In the coalition time. agreement, there is reference to giving Select Committees, the obvious example being the Treasury Committee, the power to approve senior appointments. There is also Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): The wasteful reference to constitutional change—in other words change destruction of the Nimrod fleet leaves a hole in national to the House of Lords. Given both those points, has not security and in the communities around RAF Kinloss, the time now come for the appointment of members of where it should be based. The Secretary of State for the Supreme Court to have parliamentary approval? Defence assured me personally that the review of military Will the Leader of the House agree to a debate on that bases would be concluded within weeks of all military important issue? recommendations being made at the end of February. We now learn, however, that it has been put back to the Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s summer. That will cause untold economic uncertainty interest in the matter, but I believe that that would run and damage to defence-dependent communities such as the risk of politicising judicial appointments. He may Moray, so may we have a full statement and a debate in have seen the Government’s response to the report of, I Government time on the delay and on what concrete believe, the Liaison Committee. We are perfectly prepared financial support the UK Government will provide to broaden the range of appointments that require immediately? pre-appointment approval by Select Committees, but my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor stated before Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s the Lords Constitution Committee on 19 January that deep concern. There will be Defence questions on Monday, he was against such an approach in the case of the at which he might have an opportunity to raise the Supreme Court because of the risk of politicising judicial matter. As he knows, we have concluded that RAF appointments. Kinloss and two other bases are not required by the RAF. The review to which he refers is now under way Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): This morning, the and will assess the overall needs of our armed forces, Yorkshire regional flood defence committee was told the long-term future that the bases may have and what that the budget for capital works for flood protection alternative military requirements they could meet. I would be reduced by 27%, as a result of which no new understand the urgency of an early decision, and I will flood protection schemes will go ahead in Yorkshire for pass that on to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of the foreseeable future. Both the Prime Minister and the State for Defence. Chancellor said that flood protection money would be protected, so may we have an urgent debate to discuss a David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): The mess in supplementary estimate to ensure that sufficient funding Parliament square is now the subject of part 3 of the is made available in Yorkshire and elsewhere? Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, but as that Bill cannot possibly become law before Easter, will Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman will have an my right hon. Friend consider asking for it to be split? opportunity to raise his concerns this time next week, at Having taken advice from the Clerks, I understand that Environment, Food and Rural Affairs questions. The 455 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 456
Government have had to make some difficult decisions surveillance, and renaming curfews “overnight residence on public expenditure because of the situation that we requirements”. Is it true that she is to rename electronic inherited. prisoner tags “involuntary pagers”? Frankly, we need some sort of cross-party conversation, otherwise known Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Since as a debate, about it. October, the people of Terrington St John have been forced to use a mobile surgery while a fully kitted-out Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman reiterates an GP surgery lies empty nearby. Will the Leader of the exchange that took place yesterday when his colleagues House ask for a statement from the Secretary of State raised those points, which the Home Secretary dealt for Health about how he will address the issue, which is with very adequately. She has rebalanced the competing creating distress, inconvenience and cost for local residents? demands of liberty and security in an intelligent way. There will be an opportunity to debate the Bill to which Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s she referred when it is introduced. The provisions may concerns, which I will share with the Secretary of State not be in the Freedom Bill. for Health. I understand that Norfolk primary care trust has reopened negotiations with the two GPs who Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): The people own the now disused St John surgery building with the of East Anglia and hon. Members of all parties were clear aim of reaching a settlement which would allow delighted when the Government decided to dual the the new GP practice to move in. remainder of the A11 in the spending review. This morning, there was a serious accident on the A11. Can Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Whatever happened the Leader of the House therefore find time for a debate to an oral statement on the wholesale privatisation of on when the improvements will begin? forests? Sure we could have expected an oral statement on that matter today. Will the Leader of the House Sir George Young: I am only sorry that my hon. answer the questions? Is it going to be a free-for-all? Friend was not in his place an hour ago, when we had Will the sleazy bankers be able to buy up large chunks? Transport questions. He might have been able to catch Shall we have a Fred-the-Shed Goodwin memorial park? Mr Speaker’s eye and ask the Secretary of State that Will the supermarkets be allowed to buy: Tesco—“Buy question. [HON.MEMBERS: “He was here.”] I regret his two forests, get one free”? failure to do so. I will draw to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport the Sir George Young: The short answer is no, no and no. concerns about road safety on the A11 and ask him to It sounds as though the hon. Gentleman has not read write to my hon. Friend. the consultative document. It is not a statement of Government policy. Under the previous regime, the Forestry Commission disposed of some 25,000 acres Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): We without the sort of precautions that we are including in have already heard that defence chiefs have said that the Public Bodies Bill. scrapping the RAF’s Nimrods leaves a massive gap in British security. I listened to the right hon. Gentleman’s Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): The Leader reply to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds of the House is to be congratulated on introducing the Central (Hilary Benn), but will he arrange an urgent motions to implement the Wright Committee reforms, debate in Government time to discuss the scrapping of such as setting up the Backbench Business Committee, planes that are vital to our national security and the which is widely agreed to be a success under the leadership consequences for our ability to defend our country? of the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel). Given that success, will the right hon. Gentleman Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Lady’s say what progress he is making on another Wright concerns. The decision was announced in the strategic reform—creating a House business committee, so that defence and security review in October. We then had a transparency and democracy can be brought to scheduling debate in Government time on precisely the issue that Government business? she has raised. The House has therefore had an opportunity to discuss our decision on Nimrod and other assets. Sir George Young: The House business committee Around £2 billion will be saved in the next 10 years by was another commitment to which the previous not bringing Nimrod into service. Against the background Government refused to commit themselves. We are of the challenging circumstances that the Government committed to it, and it will be introduced within three face, we had to make difficult decisions about the defence years of this Parliament. We want the current regime to budget. run for about a year, when we will review it and then have serious discussions about how we move to stage 2 Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con): Yesterday, my —the House business committee, which will merge my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) responsibilities with those of the Backbench Business raised the question of school funding in Worcestershire. Committee, so that one Committee will deal with the Although, like her, I welcome the impact of the pupil future business of the House. premium on our county, I am concerned that research from the campaign group F40 shows Worcestershire Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): May we have a still languishing near the bottom of the league tables for debate on the Government’s use of Orwellian language? per-pupil funding. Will the Leader of the House tell me We have had doublespeak and newspeak, and now we what opportunities the Government can provide to have Mayspeak in the Home Secretary’s renaming as debate the need for further reform of the national the “Freedom Bill” a measure to keep people under funding formula? 457 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 458
Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): In the light of the There will be a debate on the Education Bill, which shadow Chancellor’s assertions that we should have a could be an opportunity to raise the matter. I have also splurge of new borrowing and spending, may we have a announced that we will debate the police grant and debate on interest rates? Low interest rates keep my revenue support grant settlements, which may provide constituents in their homes and help small business another opportunity. However, I agree that the system keep ticking over. It is important for the House to of school funding is unfair and needs reform. We are explore whether interest rates would be raised by the currently considering the school funding formula to Opposition’s policies. develop a clear, transparent and fairer national funding formula based on pupils’ needs. Sir George Young: My hon. Friend raises an important issue. Our success in tackling the deficit means that the Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): interest rate regime will be lower than it otherwise Will the Leader of the House arrange for an urgent would be. If we listened to Opposition Members’ policies, statement on what is to replace the education maintenance there would be a real risk of interest rates increasing, allowance? Last week, the Education Secretary made and home ownership, investment—and, therefore, jobs— several commitments about transport costs and funding becoming more difficult. I would welcome such a debate. for looked-after children, students with learning difficulties and young carers. I understand that Library research, Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) which my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (PC): The Leader of the House will be aware of some (Andy Burnham) commissioned, suggests that fulfilling disquiet among Welsh farming unions and the Welsh all those promises could cost as much as £420 million—three Government about the UK Government’s position on quarters of the current budget and a great deal more CAP reform. Will he ask the Secretary of State for than the discretionary fund so far proposed. The Education Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to make a statement Secretary is raising expectations and causing great on progress on developing a negotiating position that confusion. Will the Leader of the House arrange for takes account of the devolved Governments’ views? him to come and explain himself?
Sir George Young: My right hon. Friend the Secretary Sir George Young: I will give my right hon. Friend the of State for Education will come and explain himself on Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Monday week, when he answers questions. We have just Affairs advance notice that, next Thursday, she is likely had a debate on the EMA, so it would not be realistic to to get a question from the hon. Gentleman on those expect the Government to find another opportunity, issues. I will see that she is well briefed. and I am not sure whether the right hon. Gentleman will be able to raise the issue that he has just mentioned Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): May we on Second Reading of the Education Bill. have a statement from the Defence Secretary on the possibility of preserving a proportion of the withdrawn Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): In the light Harrier jump jets on the basis that, over 10 years, some of the incredible assertion by the shadow Secretary of form of conflict might arise unexpectedly, in which the State for Education that the Government’s focus on versatility of those valuable aircraft would be needed? young people getting a good GCSE in English, maths, a science, a humanity and a foreign language is elitist, will Sir George Young: There will be an opportunity on my right hon. Friend assure me that the debate on the Monday to raise that matter with the Secretary of State Education Bill will give us the chance to discuss the for Defence. I understand that following the strategic incredible lack of faith in our young people? defence and security review, the Harrier aircraft were retired from service on 15 December, and that at the Sir George Young: My hon. Friend makes a powerful moment, there are no plans to retain them as a reserve point, which I hope that he will be able to make at or emergency capability. The decision to retire the fleet greater length and with even greater force when we was agreed collectively by the service chiefs. As I said, debate the Education Bill, if he is successful in catching my hon. Friend will have an opportunity on Monday to your eye, Mr Speaker. share his concerns with my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary. Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): The Leader of the House will recognise the good work that Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Will the the staff of Remploy do throughout the United Kingdom. Leader of the House arrange a statement on the Will the Government give time for a debate about what replacement for the financial inclusion fund, which they can do to help relations between staff and management, funds independent advice agencies to give debt advice, which are obviously in a bad way, and to find out why and which we have learned will close at the end of the staff have now been waiting nearly a year for last March? That means that the local citizens advice bureau year’s pay rise? in my borough of Trafford will be forced to reduce the number of cases that it can handle by 500. Please can Sir George Young: I understand the important issue we urgently be told what Ministers intend to do to that the hon. Gentleman raises. I do not know whether ensure that good quality debt advice can be continued? he is able to go to the Backbench Business Committee next Tuesday and submit a bid for a debate on that Sir George Young: The hon. Lady is quite right that important matter, or apply for an Adjournment debate the Government have decided that the fund to which or a debate in Westminster Hall. she refers will be wound up. We are in the process of 459 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 460 developing a free, national finance advice service, and I John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): May we should like to write to her, or to ask the Minister have a debate on the Business Secretary’s plans to make responsible to do so, with further details of that service. it easier to sack people and more difficult to retain the services of employment tribunals, which were announced Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Given the remarks this morning? That will profoundly affect a very high of George Soros yesterday and today on the failure of proportion of employees, particularly in constituencies the economic governance arrangements, will the Leader such as mine, where a number of people are already on of the House be good enough to arrange a debate on very insecure terms of work. the reasons for our low growth? They are connected with the failure of the EU and the failure to repatriate Sir George Young: There will be a debate on BIS next powers. Repealing EU social and employment legislation Wednesday. However, the current regime actually deters would enable our own small and medium-sized businesses potential employers from taking people on, because to grow. of the circumstances that surround their potential dismissal. I honestly believe it right to try to recalibrate Sir George Young: I say to my hon. Friend that I the balance of power between employer and employee, honestly think I have provided enough time for the in order to encourage employment and remove one of House to debate matters related to the EU. I see that a the barriers to it. high proportion of the time that we have made available has been occupied by him—[Laughter.] I mean no Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Will the discourtesy. The answer is that I will not provide at this Leader of the House allow a debate on the progress stage additional time to debate the matter he raises. made on rebalancing the economy? Some excellent manufacturing output data were published recently—they Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): showed strong growth over the last two quarters—and Liverpool city council workers have today been told the such a debate would give the House an opportunity to terrible news that 1,600 people are to made redundant reflect on them. as a result of the Government’s 22% cut to its funding—that is the hardest hit to any core city. The council has been praised by the Government for the action it has taken to Sir George Young: There have indeed been some very cut the pay of senior managers and reduce administrative encouraging manufacturing figures, to which my hon. costs, but it has so far been unable to secure the Friend refers, and some buoyant export orders, which Government’s agreement to spread the cuts over the I also welcome. Coupled with our proposals to cut spending period to protect front-line jobs. Instead, harsh, corporation tax and cancel the increase to employers’ front-loaded cuts are being imposed. May we please national insurance contributions, and other steps to have an emergency debate on the impact that the promote growth and prosperity, the background that he Government’s front-loaded spending cuts are having on outlines gives us reasons for optimism. employment and local economies? Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Lady’s Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): Scotland’s other national drink, concern, and when we debate the local government IRN-BRU, is headquartered and housed in Cumbernauld revenue support grant, she will have an opportunity to in my constituency. It provides hundreds of good local raise it. However, the plans of the previous Chancellor jobs, but the company tells me that it is being affected were for cuts only £2 billion lower than the coalition deleteriously by the substantial increase in the price of cuts next year, so the sort of challenges faced by her sugar over time. May we have a debate on the impact of local authority would have arisen whoever won the last rising commodity prices on British consumers and British election. industry more widely?
Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): On Tuesday this Sir George Young: My hon. Friend the Deputy Leader week, the Office for National Statistics released a devastating of the House advises me that that company has today economic figure—the revision of our national debt to announced record profits. I am delighted that it has £2.3 trillion, which at 155% of gross domestic product managed to overcome the rise in commodity prices. I do is higher than that of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and not know whether with a bit of ingenuity the hon. Spain and equal to that of Lebanon and Jamaica. Does Gentleman could develop his point at greater length in my right hon. Friend agree that that is the true economic the debate on the Scotland Bill later today. legacy of the Labour party, and may we have a debate on it? Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): In the light of the situations in Tunisia and Egypt and the Foreign Secretary’s Sir George Young: I would welcome such a debate. visit to Syria, would it be possible for the House to My hon. Friend may have seen in The Independent debate foreign policy for north Africa and the middle today that the public have no confidence in the Labour east? party to run our economy. The previous Government’s efforts to forecast growth over the past 13 years—they were out by, on average, £13 billion—are the reason why Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s we now have independent forecasts from the Office request. He may have heard the Foreign Secretary speak for Budget Responsibility. We lost confidence in their on precisely those issues on the “Today” programme. forecasts. We have no plans at the moment for such a debate. 461 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 462
[Sir George Young] Committee, leaving the Government with responsibility for the legislative programme. It is up to the right hon. Perhaps the Backbench Business Committee could see Gentleman and my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud whether, among all the bids it receives, there is a slot for (Neil Carmichael), who feel strongly about foreign affairs, a debate on foreign affairs in its future programme. The to go and make their pitch to the Backbench Business debate on Afghanistan in the autumn was greatly welcomed, Committee to try to secure time for such a debate. and I hope that the Committee can find a slot for a debate on north Africa and the middle east. My hon. Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): The previous Friend might like to go along next Tuesday and make a Labour-run local authority in Reading has left huge bid for such a debate. debts of several thousands of pounds for each of my constituents. May we therefore have a debate in Government Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): time to look at these irresponsible levels of local government Even during the recession, the UK film industry has debt? proved to be very successful. Most notably, “The King’s Speech” has 12 Oscar nominations and receipts to date Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear of the legacy of—I think—$108 million. May we have a debate on bequeathed to my hon. Friend’s constituents. As I whether the Government’s plans for the UK Film Council announced a few moments ago, there will be a debate are the very best way of nurturing this country’s film on the revenue support grant on Wednesday week and I industry in such a worldwide competitive market? hope that that will be an opportunity for him to raise those issues at greater length. Sir George Young: I will raise the hon. Lady’s concerns with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport and ask him to Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): In answer to write to her, but I commend the work of Colin Firth, a written question, the Minister of State, Department Tom Hooper and the others who made “The King’s for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member Speech”, and I wish them all the best in their bid for for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), confirmed Oscars in the near future. that the Government are likely to spend more than £100 million a year on redundancies and cancelling operating contracts made by the regional development James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): agencies. May we have an urgent debate on the impact Given the urgent need to rebalance the economy, especially of scrapping the RDAs in terms of cost to the taxpayer, in areas such as the west midlands, may we have an the impact on growth and the loss of support for urgent debate to discuss what the Government are functions such as regeneration, which will not be continued doing to support and develop manufacturing businesses by the LEPs? in the black country? Sir George Young: I believe that the replacement of Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s the RDAs by local economic partnerships will save concern. We have acted to improve the environment money and be more effective. I will ask my hon. Friend for manufacturers both nationally and in the midlands to write to the hon. Gentleman about the £100 million. through lower and simpler business taxes, investment in apprenticeships, creating wider access to finance, a Government-wide commitment to boosting exports, the Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I note £1.4 billion regional growth fund and other improvements. that the outrageous filibustering tactics of Labour Lords I hope he will intervene in the debate next Wednesday to in the other place have still not been brought under develop his arguments further. control by the Leader of the Opposition. Will the Leader of the House please let us know when we might have a chance to debate the amendments to the Parliamentary Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Last week, Voting System and Constituencies Bill? the Leader of the House rather brushed aside my request for a debate on Tunisia, but following on from the question asked by the hon. Member for Stroud (Neil Mr Speaker: Order. Before the Leader of the House Carmichael), the House must debate more frightening replies, I wish to say that I recognise that there are real revolutionary changes. A thousand people have been tensions between the two Chambers on this matter, but arrested in Egypt and others have been killed. The I remind the House—and this may be of particular world is changing fast and we are not debating it in the benefit to new Members—that we must preserve some House. The Government’s decision on the BBC World basic courtesies in the way in which we deal with the Service shows the shrinkage of Britain’s influence and other place, as we expect them to do with us. status around world. Do not put it off to the Backbench Business Committee or to Foreign Office questions next Sir George Young: I hope that the Leader of the week. Let us discuss seriously foreign policy in this Opposition will make contact with his supporters in the House of Commons. other place and ensure that that House is not brought into further disrepute by the tactics that are being Sir George Young: The right hon. Gentleman says, adopted. The Government very much want to make “Don’t put it off to the Backbench Business Committee,” progress with the legislation. That is our intention and I but in my view, the House took the right decision when hope that there will be reflection over the weekend. The it decided that the Government should no longer have second Chamber is a revising Chamber, and I know that an exclusive monopoly on what subjects were debated. it would want to think very carefully before it blocked a That is why at least 35 days a year are given to the Bill that had received the support of this House. 463 Business of the House27 JANUARY 2011 Business of the House 464
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Last Thursday evening Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): The renewable heat it was my pleasure to take part in the Gatwick Diamond incentive scheme has been delayed again. When will we young start-up talent event, which is a “Dragons’Den”-style have a decision on this and, more specifically, may we event for young people with entrepreneurial ideas. Can have a statement on the point? we find time for a debate, perhaps through the Backbench Business Committee, to discuss ways in which we can Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s better help young people with entrepreneurial ideas to concern. We are committed to a massive expansion in get ahead? renewable energy and supporting renewable heat is an integral part of that. We expect to be in a position to Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s announce shortly the details of the scheme, including concern, and I was delighted to hear about what happened. renewable heat incentive tariffs and technologies supported, We are putting more resources into apprenticeships and and for it to be open for business later in the year. the enterprise allowance scheme. We have made a change this week to the amount of time young people can Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): Two NHS trusts spend on work experience without losing access to in my constituency are considering merging. Their letter benefits and we are introducing the new work programme. notifying me of their actions so far reads like a script I hope that we can reduce the large number of young from “Yes, Prime Minister”. The “options appraisal” unemployed that we inherited from Labour and encourage leads on to “a Strategic Outline Case” to be followed by them to become entrepreneurs. the “Outline Business Case”, which will become “the Full Business Case”, which then may or may not lead to Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Will my right a consultation with the public. All that will entail enormous hon. Friend ask the Chancellor to make a statement on amounts of bureaucracy and consultants, which will deficit reduction, which would give the House an take money that should be spent on patient care. Can opportunity to hear what progress is being made? It my right hon. Friend facilitate a statement on doing would also give the shadow Chancellor an opportunity away with this bureaucratic nonsense and getting the to clarify his Bloomberg speech and state clearly whether money spent on the front line? he remains a deficit denier. Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will know that Sir George Young: It is very important that we establish there is a Health Bill before the House at the moment. It whether the shadow Chancellor is on the same wavelength is the intention of the coalition Government to do away as his leader on deficit reduction. On that point, I was with the bureaucracy that he mentions and put the interested to see that the former Chancellor under the resources into front-line care. He gives a graphic exposition last regime said that the key to getting growth in the of where economies can be found. long term is firstly to get the deficit down. That is not exactly what the Leader of the Opposition said yesterday. Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): Will the Leader of the House allow time for a debate on Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Yet another economic confidence, especially in light of this morning’s of the Government’s excellent moves to put Parliament ComRes poll, which clearly shows that my right hon. first is to allow Government Back Benchers free votes in Friends the Prime Minister and the Chancellor are far Committee. When the BlackBerrys go off now notifying more trusted on the economy than their shadows? a Division, we are not told how to vote. We are no longer lobby fodder. May we have a statement next week from the Chief Whip so that this policy can be Sir George Young: My hon. Friend draws attention to expounded further and he can get the congratulation the poll in today’s edition of The Independent. My own that he deserves? view is that until Opposition Members accept some responsibility for what went wrong, they will have no credibility with the general public. Sir George Young: I would not wish to raise my hon. Friend’s expectations by suggesting that my right hon. Friend the Chief Whip has any plans to come along. In Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con) any case, I do not think that my hon. Friend was ever rose— regarded as lobby fodder. Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman assures me that he David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): In 2004, the was present at the start of the business statement. I am Lyons report on property strategy, as updated last year grateful for that confirmation and I wish to hear him. by Smith, said that significant savings could be made by transferring up to 15,000 civil servants out of London Mr Stuart: I am grateful, Mr Speaker, although to the regions. May we have a statement from the disappointed that you did not notice me from the Minister for the Cabinet Office on the Government’s beginning. After a collapse in manufacturing employment property strategy and their progress on this issue? over the last 10 years or so, there are optimistic signs, not least in Hull, where Siemens is investing in a major Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s renewable energy plant that may employ 10,000 people concern. It is indeed our policy to continue to decentralise or more. Other companies are following. May we have a from London wherever feasible. I will ask my right hon. debate on the infrastructure to support that development? Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office to write to The Humber offers huge economic opportunity for my hon. Friend with details of how we are getting on this country and we need to ensure that we have the with our proposals. infrastructure in place to support it. 465 Business of the House 27 JANUARY 2011 466
Sir George Young: The regional growth fund is set up Points of Order precisely to support infrastructure in areas such as Hull, and there will be a debate in Opposition time next 12.28 pm Wednesday when my hon. Friend may have the opportunity to raise that point. It is worth reminding the House that Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): In an the Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast an answer by the Leader of the House about employment increase in employment of 1.3 million over the lifetime tribunals, he said that all would be revealed next week. I of this Parliament, which puts some of the debate on have asked questions of the Ministry of Justice to elicit the economy in a more glowing perspective. information about the number of people who have been unfairly dismissed with between one and two years’ service and have gone to a tribunal. I was told that the answer could not be given without disproportionate Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Leader of the House cost. Surely that is wrong if we are to debate that and to colleagues for their co-operation, as a result of subject? which, after the exchanges between the Front Benches, 47 Members were able to contribute in 42 minutes. I am Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for very grateful. his point of order, which of course requires a ministerial reply. I do not know whether he was seeking to elicit something from the Leader of the House, who is welcome to comment, but under no obligation to do so.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young): I will pursue this matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Justice, but it has always been the practice that where an answer would require disproportionate resources, an answer is not provided.
Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab) rose—
Mr Speaker: The morning would not be complete without a point of order from the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife.
Thomas Docherty: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Further to business questions earlier—obviously, we have not yet had a chance to see the official record—I think that I am right in saying that the Leader of the House appeared to indicate that you, Mr Speaker, had some discretion on whether the Member for Belfast West (Mr Adams) had resigned his seat by his new appointment. There clearly continues to be dissatisfaction with the whole process. What options are available to Members of the House to have a proper and thorough discussion of the whole sorry affair?
Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. All I want and need to say is that the notification of the disqualification of a Member appears on page 641 of yesterday’s Votes and Proceedings.Ihave nothing further to add to my ruling yesterday, and there are no procedural issues within my discretion on which I can rule. Doubtless, these matters will continue to be discussed, but there are no issues to be decided now.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Is there any way in which I can, within the rules of order, place on the record my appreciation of the fact that Gerry Adams might not have wanted to accept the authority of the Crown when entering Parliament, but evidently has had to accept its authority in order to leave Parliament?
Mr Speaker: The short answer is no, but the hon. Gentleman has done so anyway. 467 27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 468
Scotland Bill The Bill builds on the achievements of the 1998 Act and on the experience of devolution, and it further Second Reading strengthens Scotland’s place within the United Kingdom. Just six months after being elected, we introduced the Mr Speaker: I have to inform the House that I have Scotland Bill on St Andrew’s day. In doing so we made selected the amendment on the Order Paper. good the Government’s formal pledge, in our programme for government and the Queen’s Speech, to implement 12.32 pm the recommendations of the Commission on Scottish The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): Devolution—the Calman commission, as it is more I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. commonly known. However, this was not our commitment alone. The Labour party also pledged in its manifesto Over the past decade, the devolution of power and to implement the commission’s recommendations, and decision making from this Parliament to the Assemblies I welcome its ongoing support without seeking to of Wales and Northern Ireland and to the Parliament in compromise Labour Members’ important role in Scotland has transformed the constitutional arrangements scrutinising the detail of the Bill. Once again, however, of the United Kingdom. With this Bill, we begin a new measures brought to the House on a major piece of phase of devolution in Scotland—a phase that we enter Scottish constitutional legislation, are founded on support with cross-party support and the support of individuals from across the Chamber and within Scotland. and organisations across the country. The Scotland Bill is, of course, an important step in the coalition After the first decade of devolution, it was right to Government’s programme to modernise and reform the review the Scotland Act, to assess how devolution was United Kingdom’s constitution, but its origins lie in working, and to ensure that the Scottish Parliament had the Scottish Parliament itself and in the support given the right powers to deliver for people in Scotland. In by the previous Government, which I am happy to December 2007, the Commission on Scottish Devolution acknowledge. The Scotland Bill will further empower was established by a vote in the Scottish Parliament. the Scottish Parliament and make it more accountable Chaired by Professor Sir Kenneth Calman, the commission to those who elect it. In doing so, it will strengthen included Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat Scotland’s position within the United Kingdom. representatives, but it was independent of any political Let us reflect on how we got here. The late Donald party and embraced representatives from business, Dewar famously said, while quoting from the first line education, the wider public sector and across civic of the Scotland Act 1998: Scotland. It gathered evidence from a wide range of sources and engaged directly with people in Scotland “There shall be a Scottish Parliament…I like that”. and elsewhere in the United Kingdom, through detailed He was not alone. His sentiments were, and continue to consultation, public engagement events, oral evidence be, widely shared in this House and throughout Scotland. from a spectrum of interests in Scottish public and It is important to pay tribute to Donald Dewar for his business life and survey evidence. Let me record my historic role in shaping modern Scotland. He was a true thanks to Professor Sir Kenneth Calman and his statesman, serving both as Secretary of State for Scotland commissioners for their thorough, inclusive and well- and as Scotland’s original First Minister. In the creation evidenced work. I would also like to acknowledge the of the Scottish Parliament, he has a fine legacy. However, impressive and detailed work of Professor Anton Muscatelli he would have been the first to insist on recognising the and the independent expert group on finance, which countless others, across different parties, and, crucially, supported the commission. from many different backgrounds in Scotland, who patiently built the case for devolution over many years, The commission’s final report was submitted jointly indeed decades. Likewise, we should acknowledge those to the Scottish Parliament and the UK Government in in this place, the Scottish Parliament and beyond who June 2009, and was widely welcomed. Based firmly on supported the early years of the devolved institutions, the commission’s findings, the Scotland Bill seeks to building their capacity and establishing their credibility. implement its key recommendations. The commission’s Today, we build on that work. first and overarching conclusion was that devolution had been a real success; that it was here to stay; and that When taking the original Scotland Bill through this the balance between reserved and devolved policy powers place, Donald Dewar said that the creation of a Scottish and functions was, broadly, in the right place. However, Parliament was not just for Scotland. Nor was it just it also concluded that there was a shortcoming in how routine tinkering with the detail of our political system. the Parliament was funded, specifically in terms of Rather, it was a fundamental, radical reform of the accountability. At the centre of the commission’s report UK’s constitution. After more than a decade of devolution, and the Bill, therefore, are measures to improve the the Scottish Parliament is firmly established as part of financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament. the fabric of Scottish life. More than that, however, devolution—not just in Scotland, but right across the The Scottish Parliament can determine policy on a United Kingdom—is now part of our national life too. wide range of subjects and how and where money is The Parliament was established to bring power closer to spent, but at present it cannot be held effectively to the people of Scotland, to make government more account for raising the money it spends. The commission responsive to their needs, and to put their priorities at recognised this imbalance. The Bill addresses that imbalance the heart of Scottish governance. It has succeeded: by providing a package of taxation and borrowing decision making on education, health and the environment, powers that will see the Scottish Parliament become among many things, is closer to the people whom those accountable for more than a third of the money it decisions affect. The experience of Scottish devolution spends. In doing so, the Bill represents the largest has changed the terms of the debate. Few would seriously transfer of fiscal powers from central Government since now argue that there should be no Scottish Parliament. the creation of the United Kingdom. It is a radical but 469 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 470
[Michael Moore] of Commons and whose main home is in London, I want to be taxed in Scotland, but will the Bill allow responsible step. Most significantly, we will create a that? Scottish income tax. We will create that tax by cutting 10p off the basic, higher and 50p rates for Scottish Michael Moore: Unfortunately for the hon. Gentleman, taxpayers, adjusting the block grant in proportion and he will have to pay the Scottish rate of income tax. allowing the Scottish Parliament—indeed, obliging it—to Parliamentarians are obliged to pay it regardless of apply a Scottish income tax at a level of its choosing to where their main home might be. meet its spending plans. As I was saying, the new powers will give Scottish Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): Can Ministers and the Scottish Parliament a much more the Secretary of State tell me and those who have asked significant stake in the performance of the Scottish me to probe this point what will happen when companies economy. The level of the Scottish rate will be Scotland’s in my constituency or those across the whole of Scotland to decide, and those who set the rates will answer directly are paid from south of the border? How will that to those affected by them. Power will rest with the problem be overcome? Scottish people. In addition to income tax, the Scotland Bill will devolve to the Scottish Parliament responsibility Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman makes a very for stamp duty land tax and landfill tax. That will fair point. Let me reassure him, first, that we have given complement its policy responsibilities for housing, planning a lot of attention to the technical issues of implementation, and the environment. The Bill will also allow the Scottish both in a high-level implementation group and, now, Parliament to propose new devolved taxes, to sit alongside technical groups led by Her Majesty’s Revenue and the other powers. However, the fiscal powers are not Customs, which are looking at all the different issues. limited just to tax; they extend to borrowing powers, The good news is that the software systems that were too. The Bill will allow Scottish Ministers to borrow up created for employees paying the Scottish variable rate to £500 million for current spending when tax receipts under the original legislation were future-proofed and fall short of those forecast. can identify Scottish taxpayers on the payrolls, wherever the company’s head office is, ensuring that the identification Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): Will the Secretary of taxpayers is made as painless a process as possible of State confirm that the UK Government are currently and that the right amounts of tax are taken. negotiating with the Northern Irish Government about the devolution of corporation tax powers to Northern Mr Donohoe: But what happens—this is the question Ireland? Why would a UK Government consider that that has been asked of me—when the person is domiciled appropriate for Northern Ireland but not for Scotland? both in Scotland and in England? Michael Moore: I would not characterise those Michael Moore: They cannot be domiciled in both discussions as negotiations per se, but people have places. A person’s status as a Scottish taxpayer will be certainly been raising possibilities in connection with determined as set out in the Bill. If the hon. Gentleman what taxes might be suitable for other parts of the looks more closely at the detail, I hope that he will be United Kingdom. As I have said, our proposals in the reassured. Bill are founded on careful consideration, and on impressive and important academic research that made it clear that Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): if we wish to preserve the United Kingdom—I understand Before the Secretary of State moves on from this point, that the hon. Gentleman does not—we should ensure can he outline to the House what he expects the costs to that, in increasing accountability in Scotland, we focus the Scottish Government to be of the annual adjustment on income tax rather than corporation tax, and I am from HMRC? What will the cost of the variable tax rate satisfied with that. be to the Scottish process? Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The Secretary Michael Moore: I do not know whether the hon. of State says that all this is part of defending the Union. Gentleman is asking what the costs of running the Obviously his colleague Tavish Scott would share his system will be, but if he is, the draft regulatory impact view, but in his submissions to the Steel commission assessment—I do not know whether he has had a and then the Calman commission he suggested devolving chance to look at it yet—sets out our provisional estimates of the marginal costs of creating this functionality in “income tax; corporation tax; fuel duty…tobacco and alcohol duties; betting and gaming duties; air passenger duty; insurance the system. They are £45 million, with annually recurring premium tax; climate change levy and landfill tax; inheritance costs of around £4 million. However, I should say to tax; and stamp duties”. him—I am grateful for the chance to emphasise this—that a lot of that will depend on the detail that the Scottish Surely the Secretary of State does not disagree with his Government and other stakeholders wish to see on own colleague in the Scottish Parliament, does he? documentation such as P60s. That will influence where those costs fall. Michael Moore: What I absolutely agree with is the process that we went through as three different parties Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): Following that came together in the Calman commission, examining the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Central the options, scrutinising them and coming forward with Ayrshire (Mr Donohoe) made, I can see that there will a balanced set of proposals. We look forward to seeing be formulae for different categories of employees. As a fully costed proposals from the hon. Gentleman and his Member of Parliament who is based here in the House colleagues. They have had months to produce them— 471 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 472 indeed, years—but as yet we have seen nothing. That is Michael Moore: I had nearly got back to the point I something that the House will note and that will perhaps was at, but I shall give way. reduce the bluster on the part of some. John Robertson: On that point, I listened to the Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) Secretary of State on the “Today” programme this (SNP): To supplement the extensive list that my hon. morning, when he spoke eloquently about who would Friend the Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) foot the bill if borrowing went—shall we say?—awry. read out, may I add the power of the Crown Estate What is to prevent a Government in Scotland from being returned to the Scottish Parliament? Indeed, four borrowing £500 million just before they lost power, to or five years ago five Liberal highlands MPs supported ensure that the incoming Government were saddled that very proposal in a ten-minute rule Bill. Is that still with a bill they could not pay? the position of the Liberal party? If so, will the Liberals try to use the Scotland Bill to ensure that the Crown Michael Moore: I would hate to destroy the cross-party Estate is returned to Scotland? consensus by making any inappropriate reference to a £155,000 million deficit, so I will move swiftly on. On Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman is tempting me the technical point the hon. Gentleman raises, if he to get slightly ahead of myself. He will see the proposals looks again at the Command Paper, he will see that that we have set out in the Bill, taking account of the there are provisions to ensure that no Government will evidence that was supplied to the Calman commission. be able simply to borrow in order to stack up a capital reserve to spend in the future or to land a subsequent Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): Does the Secretary Administration in debt. of State agree that those Scottish National party Members who are getting animated on this issue could easily have Mr MacNeil: On a point of clarification, would the made a submission to the Calman commission if they right hon. Gentleman like to see power over the Crown so wished? Instead, they stood for self-interest, rather Estate devolved to the Scottish Parliament? than Scotland’s interest. Michael Moore: Those provisions are not in the Bill. Michael Moore: If I may say so, the hon. Gentleman That case has not been put forward in detail either by makes the point very neatly. Like him, I await the SNP’s the Government of Scotland, of whom his colleagues detailed proposals on either fiscal autonomy or the are members, or by others. If such proposals were to Crown Estate, so that they might be debated. I believe come forward some time in the future, there could be a that what we have in the Bill is the right balance, which public debate, but as far as the Scotland Bill is concerned, will give Scotland the powers and accountability that it it is consistent with the Calman commission and will should have. make sure, formally, that we have a Scottish commissioner. That will ensure that Scottish interests on the Crown John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) Estate are well represented in future. (LD): On taxation generally, is not the lesson that we As Secretary of State for Scotland, I am fully aware have learned, from the original Scotland Act 1998, of my role in ensuring that we keep the Crown Estate through many Standing Orders over two Parliaments, focused on its interests across the whole of the United that we are involved in an iterative process? What can be Kingdom. I have had two formal meetings so far and devolved should be devolved, but at a gentle pace, so another is planned. That is probably as good a record that we can assimilate what has happened. In that as most recent Secretaries of State. I assure the hon. regard, the agreement that the three parties have come Gentleman and others who are concerned about the to is the correct way to proceed at this time, but does not Crown Estate that we will continue to work to make it preclude further devolution when appropriate at a later more accountable, more transparent and more focused stage. on Scotland’s and the rest of the UK’s interests.
Michael Moore: I quite agree with my hon. Friend, Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): I who puts his point in such an elegant way. thank the Secretary of State, who is generous with his time. He keeps on saying that the provisions were in the Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): I hope Calman proposals, but only 35 out of the 63 proposals that my right hon. Friend is not accusing the Scottish are in the Bill. Issues such as immigration, benefits, National party of inconsistency. Its attitude towards aviation and aggregates are all out. Why is the right the Calman commission is entirely consistent with its hon. Gentleman so negative about so many of the attitude towards the Scottish Constitutional Convention, Calman proposals, and why did he not implement those which it also declined to join. important measures?
Michael Moore: Once again, my right hon. and learned Michael Moore: I understand that the hon. Gentleman Friend puts it very elegantly. will seek to catch your eye later, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sure that he has studied the Command Paper As I was saying before that brief diversion, the fiscal along with the Bill in great detail, in which case he powers included in the Bill are not limited to tax; they would have seen what we said about the aggregates levy extend to borrowing as well. and aviation duty. We made it clear that there is a difficulty with the aggregates levy because of issues John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): Will before the courts, so it would be inappropriate to bring the Secretary of State give way? forward proposals at this stage. However, we make clear 473 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 474
[Michael Moore] Education funding, had been allocated, but that the money had not been received. In the new approach to in the Command Paper our intention to devolve that these matters, will there be more accountability than area. Likewise on aviation duty, the Government are can be seen in that case? reviewing the position, and we still intend aspects of it to be devolved. It is the same with welfare. The Command Michael Moore: First, I pay tribute to the right hon. Paper talks about the major reforms we are introducing Gentleman’s distinguished career of campaigning on and the fact that they will fully take account of devolution these issues and to all the hard work and effort he has and reflect the spirit of what was in the Calman report. put into that over many years. The fundamentals of I hope that that goes some way towards reassuring the devolution since 1999 mean that the Scottish Parliament hon. Gentleman, although I suspect it will not. and then the Scottish Government are able to decide Beyond the power to borrow up to £500 million for how to spend all the revenue that comes to them, current spending, a Scottish cash reserve will be created whether it be directly through the grant or, to use a so that the Government will be able bank and save shorthand term, as a result of the Barnett consequentials. money where tax receipts exceed those expected. These The hon. Gentleman is, of course, entitled to draw a provisions will allow for effective financial management distinction between how the money is spent south of to deal with fluctuations in the new revenue stream of the border and how it is spent north of the border. On tax receipts. occasions, the advantage might be the other way round, but I am afraid that that is the essence of devolution—it We also set out in the Bill a brand new capital is for them to decide. The Bill enhances those principles borrowing power of up to £2.2 billion. This will provide rather than claws anything back. the Scottish Government with new means to invest in major infrastructure and other projects. It will be for Scottish Ministers and the Scottish Parliament to decide Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ whether to borrow and, if so, for what purpose—a new Co-op): The right hon. Gentleman is right that the Forth crossing, new hospitals, new schools or perhaps essence of devolution means that the Scottish Government even a railway—and it will be for them to account to the should not have their funding ring-fenced, as some have Scottish people for those choices. suggested it should be. However, the point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston As a consequence of increasing the financial freedom and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) related to accountability. I do and accountability of the Scottish Parliament to raise not think that he was suggesting that we should ring-fence its own revenues, there will be a reduction to the existing the funding transferred to the Scottish Parliament. It is block grant. The grant will continue to make up the a question of how there can be accountability to the remainder of the Scottish budget, however. That will UK Parliament. Perhaps there could be some way of ensure financial stability; it will ensure continuity of bringing to this Parliament the ability to question the public service provision; and it will maintain the economic way in which money is spent by the Scottish Parliament. union that is so central to our United Kingdom. I know Intergovernmental and inter-parliamentary co-operation that views differ—both in this House, and further afield—on should allow such questioning to be pursued and, although the broad issue of the block grant and, specifically, on my right hon. Friend has been trying to do that, he has the Barnett formula that underpins it. I do not expect not always been successful in getting the Scottish Parliament those differences to be resolved today; indeed, the funding to respond. formula is not part of the Bill. The Government have set out their position on the Michael Moore: I respect the hon. Gentleman’s interest Barnett formula in their programme for government. in these matters and I commend the way he has followed While recognising the need to review the arrangements devolution developments over the years. The primary in time, our overriding priority is to tackle the deficit, responsibility for accountability is to the Scottish Parliament. and we will not consider a review until the public Governments of different hues have gone before the finances are returned to good health. committee system and made statements in the Scottish Parliament; there are 129 Members of the Scottish Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) Parliament and that is their primary function. Ultimately, (Lab): I welcome the fact that the right hon. Gentleman as in this House, all are accountable to the electorate. is dealing with the Barnett formula. Will there be anything What we are trying to do with accountability in this Bill in the new proposals to prevent a Scottish Government is enhance the financial powers so that parliamentarians from receiving funding for one purpose and using it for in Scotland can be made accountable not just for the something completely different? spending decisions, but for the tax-raising decisions that precede them. Michael Moore: I am not entirely clear what the right Let me finish my point about the Barnett formula. hon. Gentleman has in mind, but it is the essence of We do not intend to alter it or review its arrangements devolution that the Scottish Parliament be free to spend at this time. Nothing in the Bill, however, prejudges the money it receives—either through the block grant future changes to the funding formula. Rather, the Bill’s or as a consequence of its tax-raising powers—on what effect will be to make the Scottish Parliament more it wants to spend it on. reliant on its own revenues and less reliant on the block grant to fund public spending in Scotland. Mr Clarke: The right hon. Gentleman might have had the opportunity to look at last week’s Sunday Stewart Hosie: In the Secretary of State’s comments Herald, which led on the issue of disabled children in on the Barnett formula—before the interventions—he Scotland and their families and carers. It pointed out said that he would not seek to change it until the that £34 million, arising from UK Department for economy has returned to rude health. I presume by that 475 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 476 he means that this Government’s priority is to tackle the Michael Moore: None whatever. deficit. I see him nodding on that. It worries me slightly, Implementing our new financial arrangements will then, that the additional capital borrowing powers require require detailed work by the United Kingdom Government, a consent per project, so will the right hon. Gentleman the Scottish Government and a range of other stakeholders. confirm that when a good, sensible, costed project We will approach the task in a carefully planned and comes up looking for additional capital consent, this phased way. The Bill provides the overall framework for Government will not use the excuse of the deficit in the new arrangements, but more than legislation alone order simply to say no? will be needed to give effect to the measures set out. Michael Moore: I respect the thoroughness with which the hon. Gentleman usually approaches such matters, Mr MacNeil: On fiscal autonomy, how is it that tiny and he has clearly spotted the bit in the Command places such as the Faroe Islands, with a population of Paper that says that, as of 2013, we will introduce the 48,000, and the Isle of Man, with 100,000, have infinitely new capital borrowing powers. In the first couple of more power than the Scottish Parliament, which represents years, there will be additional Treasury constraints in more than 5 million people? Does the Secretary of State relation to the feasibility and appropriateness of projects, not see an anomalous situation there? The Scottish as a precursor to those capital powers being fully available, Parliament could easily have fiscal autonomy and control in 2015, to the Scottish Parliament and the Government our fuel price, which in the Hebrides is £1.45 a litre, but formed from it. in the Faroe Islands is £1.10 and 94p for petrol and diesel respectively. Stewart Hosie: The Secretary of State has not quite given me the assurance I seek. The Command Paper Michael Moore: If the hon. Gentleman wishes to also says that the powers will be subject to Her Majesty’s make his case in that way, people may or may not pay Government limits and controls. Will he confirm that attention to him. What I am suggesting is based on the Government will not use their deficit consolidation Scotland’s size and where it is within the United Kingdom. plan as an excuse to say no to important new capital I respect the fact that he and I fundamentally disagree investment? about our vision for the future of Scotland. Those of us who are committed to the United Kingdom want a Michael Moore: I hoped that I had been clear, but I sustainable new financial basis on which Scotland is am happy to refer the hon. Gentleman back to the part of the Union. We believe that the Bill provides that Command Paper, which is crystal clear on the availability basis, unlike the proposals that his party advocates. of those powers from 2013, on the annualised basis set out. When the right projects are brought forward—as The Bill and the Command Paper are not just about he and I seem to agree on this occasion, such projects finance. The Calman commission examined the whole will be those that help growth—such consent will not of the devolution arrangements and found that the unreasonably be withheld. I hope that that reassures division of policy responsibilities in the original Scotland him. Act worked well. It did, however, make recommendations Aside from the Government’s proposals, another set to improve it further, which are reflected in the Bill. On of financial arguments has been put forward as an justice, we will give the Scottish Parliament the power to alternative to the measures in the Bill. In recent months, legislate on air weapons, and give Scottish Ministers the there has been some discussion in the Scottish Parliament power to set the drink-drive limit and a Scottish national and the Scottish press about other approaches to fiscal speed limit. On health, we will give Scottish Ministers devolution, and specifically about the idea of fiscal the power to decide which doctors in Scotland should autonomy. However, its proponents have failed to come be able to use drugs for the treatment of addiction. We up with any credible proposals, or indeed any detailed will give the Scottish Government a formal role in key proposals at all, while the economic arguments advanced appointments to the BBC Trust and the Crown Estate. in support of fiscal autonomy lack any firm evidence to support them. Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab): On the question of health, will Stewart Hosie: This is ludicrous. The Scottish the Secretary of State explain why the power to make Government have published the document, “Fiscal decisions on abortion in Scotland will not be devolved? Autonomy in Scotland: The case for change and options for reform”. Saying that no work has been done is neither helpful nor accurate. Michael Moore: If I may say so, that is a delicate subject, which was debated carefully in relation to the Michael Moore: The essence of debates in the House original Scotland Act. The decision of the House at the is that we are allowed to have opinions. I carefully used time was that the matter would not be included within the word “credible”, and credibility is lacking from the that Act, and there was no such proposal brought forward Scottish Government’s proposals. The desperate efforts by the Calman commission or in any representations to undermine the proposals in the Bill have now been that I have received subsequently. exposed for what they are. We will give the Scottish Parliament power to administer its own elections, processes and procedures. There are Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): Have the Scottish also some areas where, for good and practical reasons, Government given an indication of the share of the the Calman commission recommended re-reservation national debt, and the share of the underwriting of the of powers to Westminster. These, too, are included in bankrupt Scottish banks, that the Scottish Parliament our Bill: for example, the regulation of health care would be willing to undertake under fiscal autonomy? professions and corporate insolvency. 477 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 478
[Michael Moore] and I look forward to returning to discuss the provisions with the Bill Committee in the Scottish Parliament next Finally, we have taken the opportunity to address the week. question of the official title of the devolved Administration: Devolution breathed new life into Scottish politics “the Scottish Executive”, as it is currently styled. The and Scottish society. It brought government closer to term “Scottish Government” has now become broadly the Scottish people, and it shaped a more confident recognised. We propose to make that official. Scotland in a more secure United Kingdom. The Bill extends that settlement for the future. The first chapter Gordon Banks: On the Secretary of State’s comments of devolution began with the Scotland Act 1998; the about insolvency, the Bill seems to take responsibility second chapter opened on St Andrew’s day, when we for liquidations back to the UK Parliament, and I published this Bill. The Bill reflects the work of many support that, but why not do the same for receiverships? across this Chamber and in Holyrood: work that we have undertaken together with consensus, strengthening Michael Moore: The Bill reflects the balance of the Scotland’s future within the United Kingdom. I commend representations that we have seen and the different legal it to the House. basis on which matters have been approached in Scotland to date. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make the Jim McGovern: On a point of order, Madam Deputy broader case in Committee, we look forward to hearing Speaker. I raised this point earlier with the Secretary of that. State. Is the amendment competent, given that it refers to a Scottish Government who apparently do not exist at the moment? Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): On the Secretary of State’s point about the change to the Scotland Act to Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): The allow “the Scottish Executive” to become “the Scottish amendment is in order, otherwise Mr Speaker would Government”, that term has been quite commonplace not have selected it for debate. since the last Scottish general election. However, if there is no such thing as the Scottish Government in 1.11 pm legislation, does he believe that the amendment tabled by the six separatists in the House is competent, as it Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): refers to “the Scottish Government”? Now that we have resolved that little matter, I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “That” to the end of the Question and add: Michael Moore: Far be it from me to be drawn into That this House, while recognising the need to further enhance these matters. I can only assume that the amendment is the powers of the Scottish Parliament, nevertheless believes that competent, as it is on our Order Paper this afternoon. the measures the Scotland Bill seeks to devolve are inadequate to However, the common parlance is now “the Scottish meet the ambitions of the Scottish Government for the people of Government”. It will help if Government Departments Scotland; considers the measures relating to air weapons, road no longer feel that, legally, they must refer to the safety and drink driving to be incomplete; regrets that the Calman Scottish Executive, when nobody else does. Also, we Commission’s recommendations to devolve the aggregates levy will be able to refer to “the Scottish Government” in the and air passenger duty, and to devolve responsibility for the marine environment to match the Scottish Parliament’s responsibility House, rather than “the Scottish Executive”. for fisheries, as well as its proposal for a Scottish role in welfare The Bill does not set out every proposal from Calman. benefits, have all been abandoned; regards the proposals for the In some cases, legislation is not required. For example, Crown Estates Commission as inadequate; deplores the proposals the commission recommended much closer co-operation in the Bill to re-reserve already devolved responsibilities; concludes and communication between Administrations and between that the tax varying provisions would embed a long-term deflationary bias in Scotland’s budget and that the proposed borrowing powers Parliaments. Many of the proposals require change to remaining subject to HM Treasury controls and limits render working practices, to which the Government are committed. them insufficiently flexible; and therefore considers the Bill as a I know that Mr Speaker, the Lords Speaker and the whole to be unacceptable. Presiding Officer will determine the appropriate basis I welcome the Second Reading of this Conservative-led on which to develop relationships between our Parliaments. Government’s Scotland Bill, and, like my hon. Friends, In fulfilling our commitment to implement the Calman look forward to debating the further transfer of powers recommendations, there are some cases in which we and responsibilities to the Scottish Government. The have deviated from the precise recommendations because House will find the Scottish National party a willing the policy content at UK level has changed, for example and diligent partner in ensuring that the Bill is debated in relation to air passenger duty, which the Government properly. What we have seen today, however, is remarkable. are reviewing. In other cases, however, we have gone We have seen a Liberal Secretary of State for Scotland further than the commission, building on and strengthening lead, on behalf of a Conservative-led Government, a its recommendations. This is the first time since the debate on a Conservative-led Scotland Bill that was creation of devolution that a Government have brought initiated in the Scottish Parliament by a former leader forward legislation with such wide-ranging effect on the of the Scottish Labour party. This is cross-Unionist current settlement. Indeed, the Bill will fundamentally consensus in all its Conservative-led glory. I believe change the powers and responsibilities of the Scottish that, given the consequent lack of scrutiny that will be Parliament. For that reason, the Government will proceed offered by Her Majesty’s Opposition, along with the with the Bill only with the formal and explicit consent disappearance of what remains of independent thought of the Scottish Parliament. It is right and proper that on the Liberal Benches, the task of scrutinising the Bill the Scottish Parliament should examine the measures will be left to the Scottish National party. It is we who that we set out in the Scotland Bill. I welcome the will scrutinise the Bill in the interests of the Scottish thorough way in which it is going about its business, people, and we will do so most diligently and sincerely. 479 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 480
Malcolm Bruce: If that is the attitude of the Scottish Pete Wishart: I am grateful to the Secretary of State National party, why have its members taken no part in for that correction. He has conceded that it is possible the constitutional convention or the Calman commission that this could have happened. However, I heard him over the years, and then appeared at the last minute, in a say on the radio this morning that the figure was not grudging and curmudgeonly fashion, to take part in a £8 billion, but £700 million. That makes it all right, does debate that they have not entered into for 25 years? it? That is all that Scotland would have lost over the past 10 years. Pete Wishart: It is a matter of principle. I know that the right hon. Gentleman knows very little about principle Michael Moore: The hon. Gentleman is usually fair, in the context of the Liberal Democrats, but we happen and I should hate him to miss the opportunity to be fair to believe in independence. It may have escaped his on this occasion. [Interruption.] Okay, I am being attention, but that is what our party is all about. The generous. fact that a reference to independence was not included What I was doing was correcting the hon. Gentleman’s in—indeed, was intentionally excluded from—the wording colleague in the Scottish Parliament, who had suggested of the Calman report meant that if we were to retain that the figure could be £700 million. Again, it would our principled position, we could not participate. That depend on where the line in the sand was drawn. is what we call principle, and perhaps that is a little Conveniently, in this instance the line was drawn in lesson for the right hon. Gentleman. 2010-11. When we roll forward to 2014-15, we arrive at a £400 million surplus rather than the nonsense of the Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): The hon. £8 billion that the hon. Gentleman is talking about. Gentleman has criticised the Calman process, which involved three parties working together. We rarely agree Pete Wishart: And the Secretary of State accuses me on much, but we did agree on Scotland’s future. The of being selective! It is not possible to be more selective SNP, however, had the “national conversation”, which than he has just been. cost almost £1 million, asked only seven questions, We will never agree on these issues. What we have received a grand total of 222 responses, and has not seen as a result of the work of the Scottish Government resulted in a single new power for Scotland. It was is an £8 billion loss to the Scottish budget since devolution nothing more than a vanity project for the SNP. It was in 1999. The Secretary of State, making the same not a national conversation, but a national waste of assumption, said that £700 million would be lost to the money. Scottish people over the past 10 years. That is unacceptable to us, and we will have nothing to do with it. Pete Wishart: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Stewart Hosie: I think that the Secretary of State is confused. He has talked of basing the figure on a single Several hon. Members rose— year, which was the worst year, and has said that there would not be an £8 billion shortfall. Of course he is right, but no one has ever said that. We are talking Pete Wishart: I will take interventions in a minute, about the cumulative impact had the Bill been in operation but, if hon. Members do not mind, I will make a little between 1999 and 2011-12, not 2014-15. I am disappointed, progress first. because the Secretary of State is normally fair, but on As I was saying, scrutiny will be left to the Scottish this occasion he has failed even to understand the National party. Throughout the Bill’s passage, we will argument that has been advanced against him. support measures that will effectively transfer power from the House of Commons to the Scottish Parliament. Pete Wishart: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who We will offer solutions to the inconsistencies and problems knows about these issues and understands the difficulties that have been identified. We will strenuously oppose that the Bill would create. the parts of the Bill that suggest the re-reservation of certain matters such as the regulation of health professionals Why are we giving the Scottish Parliament new fiscal and insolvency. We will also strenuously oppose financial responsibilities that would damage it? That is one of the measures that would mean a cost to the Scottish people proposals that we will seek to correct during the Bill’s of £8 billion since devolution. passage. We will be making suggestions about how it could be dealt with. We are prepared to work with the Government, because we want to improve and strengthen Michael Moore: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the Bill. We want to make it a powerhouse Bill that will serve our nation and be a credit to the communities that Pete Wishart: I will certainly give way to the Secretary we serve. of State. As we have heard, the Bill has already been debated in the Scottish Parliament, and has been subject to what Michael Moore: I want to nail this nonsense about has been described as an independent Bill scrutiny the £8 billion. Of course it is possible to take one Committee. I certainly hope that the proceedings in the particular year, which happens to be the worst year in House of Commons will be a bit more useful and the middle of the worst recession since the war, and to relevant than what we have seen in the Scottish Bill make assumptions about a 20-year period on the back Committee thus far. We have seen a Labour convener of it, but that is complete and utter nonsense. It is not haranguing and harassing independent witnesses, as a the way the figure should be calculated. I refer the hon. result of which several have decided not to take part in Gentleman to the figures from the Scotland Office, the proceedings because of what they feel is an in-built which show a £400 million surplus. bias. The Scottish Bill Committee seems to be more 481 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 482
[Pete Wishart] Parliament. That shows the progress that we have made, and there will be areas of agreement as we go through interested in considering options that are not even in the Committee stage in this House. the Bill than in examining the dangerous tax plans that Although we agree on many things in the Bill, there it contains. I hope that we can do a bit better than that are many things with which we fundamentally disagree. down here, Madam Deputy Speaker. As you know, and as we are already observing, Scottish debates in the Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab) rose— House of Commons are always characterised by their good nature and conviviality. Pete Wishart: This is probably one of them.
Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): The hon. Margaret Curran: The hon. Gentleman’s contribution Gentleman cannot have it both ways. He cannot say seems to contain an inherent contradiction, because he that he wants rigorous scrutiny, and then say that we is saying that he welcomes the Government’s introduction were too hard on people who provided false information of this Bill, yet it is widely observed that they are doing in support of his case. this because of the work of the Calman commission and his party has criticised and refused to participate in Pete Wishart: I do not know what the hon. Lady is its work. The Calman commission has led to great referring to. I have never said anything about false progress for Scotland but, yet again, the Scottish National information. party has opposed the Calman commission and held it In a spirit of consensus and co-operation, let us start back. with the issues on which we all agree, for obviously there are such issues. We all agree with the Secretary of Pete Wishart: That was an unfortunate intervention, State and with our Labour colleagues that devolution is, because I give the hon. Lady more credit than that. I in the words of Donald Dewar, a process and not a was trying to think of issues on which we agreed and I one-off event, and that is important. We may disagree thought that we would hear a more helpful intervention. on the conclusion of that process—we believe in It was just the Labour party resorting to type and it was independence, and my Labour colleagues believe in unfortunate that we had to hear it. something else—but we all agree that devolution is a Although we agree on much, there are a few areas process, and that we will continue to see a transfer of where we disagree. powers from the House of Commons to the Scottish Parliament. Mr Donohoe: Then give us some. A point was made earlier about the reference to the Scottish Government in the amendment. When I first Pete Wishart: I will oblige the hon. Gentleman. The came to the House 10 years ago, Labour Members were Bill is a massive wasted opportunity for Scotland, because appalled at the prospect of a Scottish Government. The so much could have been included in it and we could Secretary of State probably remembers the debates in have done so much to improve the position of Scotland. which they expressed their view. They helpfully said, The Bill could have included measures to help our “They can call themselves ‘The White Heather Club’ if economic performance and increase growth. The Bill they want, but they will never be a Government.” We seems to contain a wee modest set of proposals that are a Government now, thank goodness, and the Labour lack any real ambition to propel Scotland forward; it dinosaurs, some of whom I see in their places, will never offers few solutions to provide Scotland with what it go back to having an Executive running Scotland. That needs to take our nation forward; and, as I have said, is a good thing too. it offers nothing in the way of a framework to increase An important new development is that we all agree economic growth in Scotland. now that some financial powers—fiscal powers—should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament. We never Anas Sarwar: Will the hon. Gentleman give a direct had that important source of agreement before. We answer to something? Why did the SNP not make a fundamentally disagree on the measures in the Bill, but submission to the Calman commission? we agree that financial responsibility should be a feature of the Scottish Parliament. I look forward to that, and Pete Wishart: The Calman commission was proposed that is another area of agreement. We will oppose by the three Unionist parties, and discussions have gone measures in the Bill, but it is good that we now all agree on all the time with the Scottish Government about that financial powers are required for the Scottish implementing the Calman proposals. Who put two of Parliament. the main Calman proposals—on airguns and speed The most important thing that everyone in this House limits—before the Scottish Parliament? We could have can agree on—this ran through everything to do with legislated on those last year. The SNP said that it was Calman—is that the Scottish Parliament has been an prepared to take forward the Calman proposals where overwhelming success. The Secretary of State is of course they were useful and helpful to the people of Scotland. right to say that there is no question—only people on Who refused to allow us to take those proposals forward? the fringes of politics in this House would even suggest It was the Labour party, so I will take no lessons about this—of ever going back to having no Scottish Parliament trying to ensure that the Calman proposals are taken again. What typifies that more than anything is the fact forward. that a Conservative-led Government are legislating for more powers and responsibilities to be given to the Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Does the Scottish Parliament, because only 12 short years ago hon. Gentlemen agree that had the SNP been more the Tories campaigned so energetically against the Scottish engaged with Calman and taken part in the coalition 483 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 484 building that was necessary to come forward with the Michael Moore: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Scotland Bill, it might have got more of its views The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire reflected in the Bill? By not taking part in that process, (Pete Wishart) cannot keep repeating this figure of those views were inevitably not considered. £700 million. I was pointing out how it was slightly unfortunate that his colleague in the Scottish Parliament, Pete Wishart: Why was independence excluded in the Fiona Hyslop, chose to use one figure and ignore the setting up the Calman commission? Why could we not £400 million surplus, which is the more relevant figure. have included everything? Had we done so, everyone would have taken part and put forward their own Pete Wishart: I am grateful to the Secretary of State proposals to move Scotland forward. But, with their for finally clearing that up. legendary cunning, the oh-so-clever Unionists said, “How I was talking about a measure that is actually a Tory do we trap the Nats when it comes to looking at how budget cut to the Scottish Parliament and, unfortunately, devolution continues?” They resorted to type, as they the nodding dogs of the Labour party are supporting did on the constitutional commission. These cunning the Conservative-led Government’s cuts and assault on Unionists sitting around the table said, “What we’ll do the Scottish budget. Why have they taken us into this is exclude independence from any discussion about the measure, which is to the great detriment of the Scottish future of Scotland”, and that is what they did. budget? The SNP will not accept a Tory cut of this magnitude. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell): May I ask the hon. Gentleman what Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): happened to his party’s cunning plan: the referendum May I try to bring the hon. Gentleman back to his on independence? amendment or even encourage him to start discussing it? Does he intend to vote against the Bill? After all, his amendment states that he Pete Wishart: The right hon. Gentleman asks a fair question, and he will find out the response in May, “considers the Bill as a whole to be unacceptable.” when a Conservative-led Government attempt to secure Is he going to support new powers for Scotland or rule and save their seats in Scotland. Then we will have a against them? debate about full powers for the Scottish Parliament and then we will see the result in his constituency and Pete Wishart: Hon. Members seems to want to hear area. so much about our amendment. It states that the Bill is I shall try to get back to what I was discussing. unacceptable; a cut of this magnitude to the Scottish Believe it or not, I was still talking about areas of budget is unacceptable. As I said, the SNP will scrutinise agreement, although I was moving on to areas of the Bill as it goes through Committee. I am not expecting disagreement. As I said, the Bill contains modest ambition any scrutiny of the Bill from Labour Members; I just for Scotland but it also contains a range of very dangerous expect them to sit there agreeing, complicit with the tax plans that could significantly hurt the Scottish Conservative-led Government. We have tabled a reasoned economy and short-change the Scottish people. As we amendment and, thankfully, Mr Speaker has accepted have seen in today’s exchanges, the tax plans are the it. However, we will allow the Bill to proceed to Committee most hotly contested, keenly debated and contentious and seek to improve it there. Right now, the Bill is a part of these proposals. As I have said to the Secretary broken Bill that needs to be fixed. There are serious of State, by way of figures that he keenly and hotly difficulties with it and we will try to improve it. The disputes, this approach would have cost the Scottish challenge for the Labour party is this: will it support us people some £8 billion since the establishment of Scottish in trying to improve the Bill? devolution in 1999. I heard him on the radio saying, “It would only have been £700 million”, but what we are Sir Menzies Campbell: In the interests of clarity, will starting with is devolving a series of measures— the hon. Gentleman tell the House whether he intends to divide the House on his amendment?
Michael Moore rose— Pete Wishart: We would not table a reasoned amendment if we did not intend to divide the House. Of course we Pete Wishart: I think we have been through all this are going to divide the House. The Bill is unacceptable, before, but he might want another shot. as we have said. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman wants to go home, he can do so, although I would Mr Donohoe: On a point of order, Madam Deputy suggest that he hangs around. Speaker. May I suggest, Madam Deputy Speaker, that you gently remind the hon. Gentleman that he should Anas Sarwar rose— speak to his amendment? He has been talking for some 15 minutes and I have not heard anything about the Pete Wishart: I am going to make a bit of progress amendment. because, to be fair, I have taken a number of interventions from the hon. Gentleman. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Iam grateful for your assistance in this matter, Mr Donohoe. Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): Will the I will decide whether the hon. Gentleman is in order. At hon. Gentleman give way? the moment he still is and he is taking interventions. I am listening to all the contributions keenly, and I believe Pete Wishart: No, I am going to try to make progress, that the Secretary of State was about to give a response. if the hon. Lady will allow me. 485 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 486
Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab) rose— This Bill is what happens when a cross-Unionist consensus gets put through the wringer by a Tory Pete Wishart: I will give way to the right hon. Lady Government in Westminster. It was a Labour Government later, but I now wish to get through my speech. who initiated the Calman proposals, and it will be a Parts of the Bill are unacceptable to us, but, in other Tory-led Government who will conclude them. In that ways, it is merely perplexing. We shall, thank goodness, process, the stuffing has been knocked out of some very finally get devolution on the regulation of airguns. I good Calman proposals. As I have said, only 35 of the have campaigned on that issue, as have colleagues in the 60 proposals have survived. Scottish Parliament. Airguns cause such a blight to so Mr Donohoe: The Calman report proposed that air many communities. passenger duty should be included in the provisions, but it has been excluded for very good reasons. Can the Anas Sarwar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? hon. Gentleman give an estimate of the amounts that would be raised through air passenger duty from Scottish Pete Wishart: I want to make some progress. airports? And, just as an aside, can he tell us what the Airguns blight so many communities in Scotland, but level of duty is at the moment for people travelling from it is perplexing that we shall get devolution on all Scotland to England? airguns except the most dangerous ones. I am sure that Pete Wishart: The Secretary of State said in response the less dangerous ones also have an impact on communities, to an intervention that air passenger duty could not be but surely, by definition, the most dangerous ones must considered because it is being considered by Europe cause most of the damage. Similarly, we are going to get just now, but it was being considered by Europe when devolution on speed limits. Calman was looking at these matters as well. There is no real difference between then and where we are now. David Mundell: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? I am not just talking about aviation duty. I am talking about the fact that only 35 of the 60 Calman proposals Pete Wishart: I am going to try to make a bit of have survived. This is a question not so much of Calman- progress, even though it is the Minister’s good self who plus, as the Secretary of State and the Liberals like to wishes to intervene. say, as of Calman-half. Useful Calman proposals such Thank goodness we are getting devolution on speed as those on the devolution of welfare measures—including limits, because we have long argued for that. Some of much-needed measures on immigration—on the marine my colleagues in the Scottish Parliament have campaigned environment and on taxes on aviation and aggregates hard for it. However, we find that we are not going to have been left out of the Bill. Other Calman proposals get control over freight, heavy goods vehicles or anything have been significantly watered down. They include the that is towing a caravan. The most perplexing thing of proposals on the administration of elections, which will all—you will like this one, Madam Deputy Speaker—is still effectively be reserved to this House, on appointees that the regulation of activities in Antarctica are to be to the BBC and on the Crown Estate, about which we reserved to this House. Just in case anyone was in any have growing concerns. doubt, Antarctica is now listed as being reserved to the We will be constructive in trying to get this Bill Westminster Parliament. Colonies of penguins are already through, but I really hope that the Tory-led Government pulling down the saltire and hoisting the Union Jack will take seriously our attempts to improve it. I do not in joyous celebration of that fact. Thank goodness for know whether Labour Members will continue to be the Scotland Bill for letting us know that fact about nodding dogs as the Bill goes through, or whether they Antarctica! will join us in trying to improve and strengthen the Bill to ensure that we get better legislation for the people of Mrs McGuire: Will the hon. Gentleman please explain Scotland. It most definitely needs improvement if it is what the Scottish Government would do in their relationship to meet the aspirations and ambitions of the Scottish with Antarctica if he had his way and the matter people. remained devolved to Scotland? Mrs Laing: The hon. Gentleman is making an important Pete Wishart: I know that it has been a feature of the point about the aspirations of the Scottish people. He Labour party in Scotland, particularly through its leader, also made an important point about the financial position. to upset and antagonise friendly nations around the Is he arguing that £800 million—or a similar figure, world. If you will excuse me, Madam Deputy Speaker, I whatever it might be—was spent in Scotland over the will refrain from making any more comments about past decade and that, had the provisions of the Bill Antarctica. already been in place, it would not have been spent in Scotland? If that is his argument, where did that money How has the Bill been met in Scotland? There has come from? been a curious sort of disappointment about it, and an “Is that it?” shrug of the shoulders. There has been no Angus Robertson: Scottish taxpayers. bunting hung out in the streets of Edinburgh, and no images of the Secretary of State emblazoned from the Pete Wishart: As my hon. Friend has just said, it flagpoles of the nation. There is a real sense of frustration came from Scottish taxpayers. I am grateful to the hon. that civic Scotland has effectively been excluded from Lady for asking that question, because that is exactly any proceedings on the Bill. We have heard many people what would have happened: we would have been deprived ask why they were not consulted on it and brought on of that budget if these proposals had been in place. board. There has been very little consultation on the That is why we are saying that they are so dangerous, Bill, and there is a great deal of frustration about that. and why they should be considered once again. 487 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 488
When the 1998 Scotland Bill went through, the then Anas Sarwar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Labour Government were prepared to accept only one amendment. It related to the devolution of the regulation Pete Wishart: I am about to conclude, if the hon. of stage hypnotists. I am sure that stage hypnotists were Gentleman will allow me. delighted that they were going to be regulated from This is clearly an insufficient Bill, a broken Bill, a Bill Scotland. As we take this Bill through the House, let us that does not serve the interests of the Scottish people. try to do a bit better than that. The fact that we are There are many things that we could do if we could having this debate at all shows that we are on a journey work together, but we have to hear from Labour Members down the road of constitutional reform. We will be that they accept that the proposed tax powers are having the debate in the run-up to May this year, and I dangerous and that we have to do something about know where I want it to conclude. We have the opportunity them. We cannot have this Tory-led Government bringing to strengthen the Bill. forward a budget cut in disguise. We need Labour’s support if we are to try to prevent that. Anas Sarwar: The hon. Gentleman has said repeatedly that he agrees with parts of the Bill, and he accepts that Anas Sarwar: On a point of order, Madam Deputy 35 new powers are being devolved to Scotland, but his Speaker. Before the hon. Gentleman concludes, may I amendment ends by proposing that the House point out that I do not feel he has spoken about the “considers the Bill as a whole to be unacceptable.” amendment? I wonder whether he will do that before he Will the hon. Gentleman, who believes in independence, concludes. be voting against new powers for Scotland? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Fortunately, Pete Wishart: Of course we will not be voting against it is not for the Chair to remind Members that they have new powers for Scotland. We will be raising, throughout not necessarily referred to every point in their amendments. the Committee stage of the Bill, the dangerous proposed Members of the House can draw their own conclusions. tax powers and the £8 billion that would have been lost to the Scottish people over the past 10 years had they Pete Wishart: Thank you very much, Madam Deputy been in place. Speaker. I am sure that the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) will get to make his own point in Mr MacNeil: Surely the big question for Labour his own forceful way if he catches your eye. Members is whether they want a strong Scottish Parliament I was about to conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, to protect Scotland from any cuts that will come and I shall conclude on the subject of the reasoned from the Tories and the Liberals. In the 1980s, we saw amendment. I want right hon. and hon. Members to the Conservatives preferring Margaret Thatcher to support our amendment. We want to try to improve this independence; this time, we see Labour preferring a Bill. It is a broken Bill; it is a Bill that does not serve the Tory Government to an independent Scotland. That is people of Scotland. The tax powers will be dangerous if the reality. they are implemented. I hope that hon. Members will support our approach as the Bill goes through. Let us Pete Wishart rose— strengthen it and make it a powerhouse Bill that serves the people of Scotland. As it stands, it is a broken Bill Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Perhaps we could that cannot serve the people of Scotland because of the now return to the amendment, Mr Wishart. financial powers in it. I urge everybody to support our reasoned amendment. Pete Wishart: Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend has made his point in his 1.40 pm typical and obligatory forthright manner. Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): It is always Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I am not sure a pleasure to speak after the hon. Member for Perth whether the hon. Gentleman understands the procedures and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart)—and sometimes of the House. Does he not realise that, if his amendment at the same time as him. I always admire his passion and were successful, these 35 new powers would not be his genuine belief that he is doing the best thing for transferred to the Scottish Parliament? He and his Scotland. I hope he does not mind me saying that his colleagues are trying to prevent the Scottish Parliament heart is in the right place, but unfortunately his head from getting the new powers. and his fiscal understanding are not. The hon. Gentleman made some important points, Pete Wishart: This is a reasoned amendment. We are particularly about tax-raising powers and the effect of inviting the House to look at the many difficulties in the this Bill. I was much perplexed by his response to my Bill and to consider how it might be improved. intervention a few moments ago. Whether the amount is £800 million or £600 million—or whatever the very Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab) rose— large sum is that he and his party argue was spent in Scotland over the past decade but would not have been Gordon Banks rose— if the Bill had been in place—his answer was that that money came from the Scottish taxpayer. That is not Pete Wishart: I will not give way because I am about correct: the money came from the UK taxpayer. to finish my speech. With equal passion, the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan We have the opportunity to strengthen the Bill, and I an Iar (Mr MacNeil), who has unfortunately just left want Labour colleagues to work with us to— the Chamber, begged a few moments ago that the 489 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 490
[Mrs Eleanor Laing] want to go on a different path from the rest of us on protecting and helping Scotland, and giving it the best people of Scotland should be protected from cuts. The chance for the future. people of Scotland cannot be protected any more than I want to pay tribute to Donald Dewar, who did a the people in the rest of the United Kingdom from the wonderful job in setting up the Scottish Parliament. effects of 13 years of bad financial management of our That was not what I said in 1997 and 1998 as we country’s economy by the Labour Government. debated the original Scotland Bill for hour after hour, day after day and week after week. It was strange that Mr Donohoe: Oh come on now, Eleanor. the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire said at the beginning of his speech that this Bill would not be Mrs Laing: The hon. Gentleman seeks to disagree properly scrutinised. I can assure him that those of us with me, in a mild way and from a sedentary position, who spent weeks and months scrutinising the Bill that but the facts speak for themselves. The country’s finances became the Scotland Act 1998 will find this nice little are in a mess. Yes, we all want to protect people in all Bill a piece of cake in comparison. Of course it will parts of the country, but there is no argument for receive proper scrutiny. protecting Scotland to a greater extent than the rest of Back in 1997 and 1998, we properly scrutinised the the United Kingdom. Scotland Bill. Many of us said over and over again that the devolution settlement that was being created would Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): Does my not work in the long term and would have to be amended hon. Friend agree that the operation of the Barnett and improved. I am very pleased to see this Bill make formula in its strictest sense will protect the Scottish the improvements that some of us have thought necessary budget at times of reduction in the overall UK level of for a long time. public spending? A population change is taken on the basis of a higher-than-average base line, so in times of Mrs McGuire: I am one of the campaign veterans public expenditure reductions, that will protect the Scottish from those long days and nights spent scrutinising the block. Scotland Act 1998. Will the hon. Lady remind us of the position of the Conservative party at that time? I am not sure whether it was so much about scrutiny as Mrs Laing: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend and I opposition. am grateful to him for making that point at this stage in the debate. I am glad to say that he is something of an expert on this subject, having been steeped in it for Mrs Laing: It was; the right hon. Lady is right. As I many years. He is absolutely right; it is also very important, said when I paid tribute to Donald Dewar a moment for the reasons he has just stated, that we keep the ago, that was not what I said in 1997 and 1998. The Barnett formula. That is the way to protect the people position of the Conservative party at that point was to of Scotland not from the effects of the Conservative-led oppose devolution. Of course it was; it is no secret. I for coalition but from the effects of 13 years of Labour one thought that that was the best settlement for Scotland. mismanagement of the economy. I appreciate, however, that the Scottish Parliament has grown in stature and become an important part of the lives of the people of Scotland. It is there, it performs Stewart Hosie: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who is an important duty and it defends the law of Scotland—the sadly wrong, as is her hon. Friend the Member for right hon. Lady will agree that I always defend that. The Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart). Barnett is of course Scottish Parliament performs an important function in a convergence formula and, far from protecting in the our new constitutional settlement in the United Kingdom. way that the hon. Gentleman suggests, it squeezes. Although I would originally have preferred to have More importantly, the hon. Lady was making the case seen an enormous amount of taxpayers’ money saved that we should not do things differently, but of course by our not setting up the Scottish Parliament, I now that is the nature of devolution. If the Scottish Government appreciate—I speak only for myself, not for my party—that had proper fiscal and economic control, they could well it performs an important duty. As I have said for more take steps different from those taken throughout the than 12 years, however, it is essential that the constitutional UK to protect and grow the economy. What would be settlement be improved. Donald Dewar, to whom I am so wrong with that? still in the middle of paying tribute, worked for decades to achieve the Parliament and I am sure that all hon. Mrs Laing: That is exactly why the provisions of this Members will agree how sad it is that he did not live to Bill, which give more accountability and power to the see the complete fruition of his labours. Had he done so Scottish Parliament, are absolutely right. The hon. and remained the First Minister for a longer term, I Gentleman makes a good argument in favour of the believe the standing and status of the Scottish Parliament Bill. would have grown more quickly. However, it is where it Until a few moments ago, I was going to say that it is is now. good to see such cross-party consensus on the Bill. Of course, we have cross-most-party consensus, but not Mr McCann: I might not agree with the hon. Lady’s consensus with those in the Scottish National party. We view of the economic situation, but does she share my understand that however much they seem to be stepping view that the difference between the parties in this back from their long-held belief that we ought to move House that back the Union and those on the nationalist towards an independent Scotland—I do not understand Benches is that we want to finesse the devolution settlement why they do not have the courage of their convictions to make it better, while they see this as a foot in the door and go ahead and ask the people of Scotland—they to move further towards independence? 491 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 492
Mrs Laing: I am very pleased to agree entirely with I welcome the better clarification of the balance the hon. Gentleman—this is an unusual debate. between devolved and reserved policy matters—those During the passage of the original Scotland Act, which ought to be taken at Holyrood and those which many of us argued that it would work in that form only ought to be taken in this House. If we do not have that if one made the assumption, as the then Government clarity, the whole constitutional settlement will lack the understandably wanted to, that there would always be a gravity I would like it to acquire, so the new clarity that Labour Government in Westminster and a Labour majority comes from the Bill is very welcome. in the Scottish Parliament. That is how the settlement I promise that when we scrutinise the Bill in Committee, was set up. Now that the situation has, happily, changed, it will, contrary to the assertions of the hon. Member it is important that the whole constitutional settlement for Perth and North Perthshire, be properly scrutinised, should be updated to take account of that. and I look forward to our scrutinising it in great detail. The best thing about the Bill and the changes it will Mrs McGuire: I respectfully suggest to the hon. Lady make to the constitutional settlement is that it strengthens that that was not how the settlement was established. I and entrenches Scotland’s position within the United do not think that any Labour or Liberal Democrat Kingdom, which most people in the House and, I Member at that time would have expected that, for ever fervently believe, in Scotland want to see entrenched, and a day, there would always be a convergence of the protected and encouraged. Although this is 27 January same political parties in both Westminster and Scotland. and not 25 January, I hope I will be forgiven for invoking I would have hoped that the hon. Lady would give us the bard, as this is the week that we celebrate our credit for having established a far more robust devolutionary national poet, Rabbie Burns. I shall not quote his settlement than that. I think the past few months have best-known works, which are often so badly misquoted vindicated the work that was done at that time. south of the border. Mr Donohoe: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Mrs Laing: It would be wrong to go back over Speaker. I must correct the hon. Lady. Rabbie Burns arguments that we had more than a decade ago, but I was never known as Rabbie Burns. Rabbie, in Ayrshire stick to my point: it is necessary to make updates parlance, is the village idiot: Robert was never known as because of assumptions that were made then. Rabbie.
Mr Donohoe: Will the hon. Lady explain why, if the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): We will Labour party was so self-centred at that time, we allowed take that as a point of clarification rather than a point proportional representation? of order.
Mrs Laing: I have never understood that and it is not Mrs Laing: I entirely take the hon. Gentleman’s point—I formetogivetheanswer. was being far too familiar and colloquial. Let me be more formal. This week, we celebrate the anniversary of the birth of our great Scottish national poet Mr Robert Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): The Burns, and one of his best poems makes the point that hon. Lady’s memory has been clouded through the he was a true Unionist. “The Dumfries Volunteers”says years because at no point was the Scotland Act set up clearly, at the end of its second verse: for a time when there would be solely Labour government at Westminster and Holyrood. “Be Britain still to Britain true, Amang oursels united; Mrs Laing: We are going back over old arguments For never but by British hands now. I merely make the point that we always said that Maun British wrangs be righted!” the devolution settlement would have to be improved Long may it continue, Madam Deputy Speaker. We and I strongly welcome the Bill, which does improve it. welcome the Scotland Bill because it totally strengthens The Calman commission is to be praised for the Scotland’s position within the United Kingdom. many years of work that were undertaken and for the careful and studied way in which its proposals were 1.58 pm brought forward. This has not been a rushed job; I pay tribute to the previous Labour Government for setting Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): It is now the commission up and to the current Government for more than 12 years since the then Labour Government taking its recommendations forward. It has produced guided the pioneering Scotland Act 1998 through this the right answers. By giving greater power to the Scottish House. I was proud to join thousands of fellow Scots of Parliament, the Bill also gives a greater say to the different political persuasions and of none in campaigning Scottish people about how our democracy works. That for its creation. It was undoubtedly one of Labour’s is the most important point. It is right that greater power most important achievements. It has strengthened our should require greater accountability and responsibility, democracy and brought government closer to the people as the Secretary of State has eloquently explained. If and it works well in practice. democracy is to work properly and if the people who However, we recognised the need to review the challenges vote and choose a Government are to be treated responsibly that the Scottish Parliament had faced in almost 10 years and have their opinions properly translated into action, in operation—first, in how it could meet people’s desire it is very important that a Parliament such as the to strengthen its functions, and secondly, in how to Scottish Parliament should not only be responsible for increase its financial accountability to the people of spending taxpayers’ money, but be held responsible, at Scotland. The resulting Calman commission report was least to some extent, for raising it. a serious, balanced and thorough analysis of Scotland’s 493 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 494
[Ann McKechin] Indeed, the SNP’s case for fiscal autonomy is so weak and unconvincing that its Ministers in Holyrood are constitutional arrangements. I would like to take this now accused of having had to resort to playing fast and opportunity to commend Sir Ken Calman and his loose with the facts of economic research to substantiate fellow commissioners for their work and the manner in any case at all. We are firmly of the view, based on which it was conducted. Despite the fact that the call for sound, independent evidence, that the economic union the establishment of the commission was initiated by a is Scotland’s greatest economic opportunity and that clear majority at Holyrood, it was rejected by the SNP together we are stronger. Government, who preferred instead to engage in a Let us be clear that the Scotland Bill was born of costly, unpopular and one-sided so-called “national consensus and consultation and is a model example that conversation” on a wholly independent Scotland. Government should always follow, whether here in Westminster or at Holyrood, before laying legislation Pete Wishart: Will the hon. Lady remind us how of such fundamental constitutional reform. While in much the Calman commission cost? government, we sought political consensus from the start. We initiated independent commissions and reports, Ann McKechin: The hon. Gentleman will no doubt embarked on a robust consultation with the public, remind us how much his national conversation cost, civic society and experts, and we listened carefully when which resulted in not one piece of legislation and no those people spoke. There is no such consensus and change for the betterment of Scotland, whereas the Bill, there was no such consultation prior to the Parliamentary we recognise, will strengthen our democracy and will be Voting System and Constituencies Bill or, indeed, the to the benefit of the people of Scotland. Fixed-term Parliaments Bill, and the result has been rushed and biased legislation, which insults our democracy. Pete Wishart: The Calman commission cost £614,000, The Tory-led Government have steamrolled those Bills which is an extraordinary amount of money. It is what through this House of Commons and into the House of David McLetchie called “unionists talking to unionists”. Lords, showing scant regard for proper scrutiny and completely disregarding the opportunity to engage with Ann McKechin: Sadly, the hon. Gentleman has not interested parties and experts or the electorate whom informed the House that his national conversation—the they serve. big blether with Alex—cost more than £1 million, and However, the Bill we are debating today is the antithesis we have not had one single benefit as a result. That is a of the Government’s other shoddy constitutional efforts. test that the very sensible people of Scotland will apply. On the whole, it reflects most of the Calman commission’s They deserve better. recommendations, and accordingly there is much that The Caiman commission agreed with our fundamental we agree on. As the official Opposition, however, we view, set out in our 2009 White Paper “Scotland’s will rigorously scrutinise the Bill to ensure that it represents Future in the United Kingdom”, that together the the best deal for the people of Scotland. There are some nations of the United Kingdom are stronger and that areas of concern and issues that will require further together we share resources and pool risks. Nowhere clarification and amendment as we continue into the was that more apparent than in 2008 with the vital Committee stage, although I can assure the Secretary of bail-out of our major banks by the Labour Government, State that we will not press the Antarctica clause to a which included two major Scottish institutions. The vote. I am astonished that the dogma of the SNP is such cash injected to salvage our Scottish banks was the that this one simple clause, which was clearly a mistake equivalent of £10,000 for every man, woman and child in the original legislation and has now, I understand, in Scotland. Without the Union and the intervention of been corrected, will enable one of our finest universities the UK Labour Government, Scotland would have to mount an expedition to Antarctica. Instead, the hon. been plunged into the depths of economic despair that Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) smaller countries such as Iceland and Ireland, the previous seems to be more concerned about where the First poster boys of independence for the SNP, are sadly still Minister might spend his summer holidays. suffering from. Pete Wishart: I am relieved that we will see no Labour Mr Frank Roy: Will my hon. Friend tell the House amendments on Antarctica. I am grateful that the hon. what would have happened had Scotland at that point Lady said that the Labour party will be engaged in been part of an “arc of prosperity”? scrutinising the Bill, which is good news. What sort of amendments can we expect to see tabled in Committee? Ann McKechin: SNP Members have made no mention today of an analysis of what would have happened Ann McKechin: Unlike the hon. Gentleman, who under fiscal independence during the period from 2007 wants to stop this process in its tracks this evening, I to 2009. In fact, the SNP has produced no governmental believe that the Bill requires a proper period of thorough analysis for that period. Recent estimates by experts examination. There will be amendments that we believe indicated that Scottish tax income would have dropped are appropriate on technical issues and on the substance by nearly £2.5 billion—and that includes a per capita of the Bill. share of North sea oil, before the Secretary of State and his colleagues on the Front Bench ask about that. The SNP Government have continually failed to produce Gordon Banks: Will my hon. Friend confirm that any detailed modelling of their case for separation. The amendments that we table in Committee will have more analysis has to be done not only in the good times but in bearing and substance than the amendment that has the bad times as well. been spoken about by SNP Members today? 495 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 496
Ann McKechin: I am happy to provide my hon. three centuries. The case for fiscal autonomy has Friend with that assurance. Unlike some other parties, disintegrated around the SNP, and its vision for Scotland we are already listening carefully to and speaking with is small, isolated and weak. Conversely, the Bill is people and bodies in Scotland, as we have done throughout designed to ensure that Scotland’s future in the United this process, which has already lasted three years. Kingdom is strong, enabling the Scottish Parliament to There has been much discussion, both in the Scotland flourish further and to carry on improving the lives of Bill Committee in Holyrood and beyond, of the effect people in Scotland. of the proposed devolution of the fiscal powers set out in the Bill to the Scottish Parliament. We urge the Mark Lazarowicz: A large number of charities are Secretary of State to set out and make transparent at headquartered in my constituency, and they regret the the earliest opportunity the precise plans that the fact that the opportunity has not been taken to deal Government intend to introduce to ensure operational with this anomaly. Does my hon. Friend agree that, to stability during the transition and the measures he allow the point to be dealt with, the Government could intends to put in place to control the costs incurred well consider tabling amendments in Committee? I myself during those changes. In particular, it is imperative that am a director of a Scottish charity, but it is a local one the Scotland Office, the Scottish Government and Her that is unlikely to be affected by the provisions. Majesty’s Revenue and Customs are in full and frank Ann McKechin: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. On consultation and that operational systems are put in that point, I agree that it would be helpful if the place to ensure that changes are fully effective so that Government reconsidered their response to that Scottish taxpayers do not see public moneys wasted recommendation by the Calman commission, because during a period of difficult financial constraint. What there is an additional burden on many very good charities discussions has the Secretary of State held with HMRC that operate not only in Scotland but in other parts of and the Scottish Government on the initial planning the UK. They face two licensing processes and two required to implement those substantial changes, and sets of regulatory burdens, and, for a Government who will he undertake to report regularly to the House on always lecture people on reducing the regulatory burden, progress during the preparation period leading up to this is a good opportunity, working with the consensus the next general election? among charities, to try to alleviate the amount of time We also seek clarity on the definition of “Scottish they have to spend on paperwork and to increase the taxpayer”, which experts have already highlighted could amount of time they have to spend on charitable purposes. lead to a series of what we suspect are unintended We will support the Bill’s Second Reading, not the anomalies. According to the Institute of Chartered Scottish National party’s amendment, if it is put to a Accountants of Scotland, a worker who spends 101 days vote. That does not mean we will not scrutinise the Bill in Scotland, 99 days in England and 165 days working carefully and closely, but, after almost three years of overseas, for example, will still be deemed to be a UK study and engagement with the Scottish public and with resident and a Scottish taxpayer, despite spending less experts, and given the express will of the Holyrood than half the calendar year in Scotland. A person who Parliament, whose Committees are currently considering lives in Scotland but works in England would derive all the matter in close detail, it is now important to get on their income from their activities in England but still be with business and to put the Calman commission into classified as a Scottish taxpayer because that is where legislation. they end their day. As the Secretary of State and his No. 2, the Under-Secretary of State, the right hon. 2.12 pm Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), both represent border constituencies, Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): I am very happy to that issue might be of direct relevance to their constituents. follow the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Ann We understand that HMRC currently has no intention McKechin), who made a fair analysis of the co-operation of introducing a concession to split the tax fiscal year to and consensus that have characterised the process over deal with the movement of workers across the border. None many years. She presented a constructive role for the of those consequences seems particularly sensible, so Opposition, as is right and proper, in scrutinising and we urge the Government to look carefully at the definition. trying to improve the legislation, and in addressing We are disappointed that the Government have not some of the issues. I certainly hope that matters are taken the opportunity to tackle the problems caused by proceeded with in that spirit. the different approaches to the definition of “charitable I am very happy also to welcome the Bill, as someone purposes” and “charity” in the Charities and Trustee who has been involved in the process since its very early Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 and the Charities Act days—indeed, for 25 or more years. Frankly, however, I 2006, which applies to England and Wales. They have see it as a further step along the way to home rule within failed to use this opportunity to introduce measures to the United Kingdom. I never thought, any more than reduce the regulatory burdens on UK charities that others did, that the Scotland Act 1998 was the end of operate in both Scotland and other parts of the UK the process; most of us recognise that the constitution is —particularly in difficult times when charities are already evolving. The first Act, which established the Scottish affected by the spending review cuts and bearing the Parliament, was seminal legislation, but it was always brunt of the economic downturn. The Bill is the ideal work in progress, and this Bill falls into the same place to address the issue, and to quote the Secretary of category. State’s right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, “If not I hope that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of now, then when?” State for Scotland does not find any discomfort in that, Let me conclude by reminding the House that the Bill but I completely understand that his role in government, is intended to preserve the political and economic union operating on an agreed cross-party consensus, is to put that has benefited both great countries over the past forward a Bill that commands the support of the House 497 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 498
[Malcolm Bruce] had not engaged. At the time, I challenged the SNP to take part, because I wanted it to be there, knowing that and the Government and does not prevent any of us it wanted independence but accepting that the party from arguing the case for further reform and development. probably would not get it. The SNP’s involvement, That puts the SNP in a difficult position, but that is however, might have helped us to gain more powers precisely where it wants to be. than we did. That is why I continually regard its all-or- For many of us who have been through this debate a nothing approach as damaging to Scotland and, ultimately, few times, my previous point might sound ponderous, to the party’s own interests. but we are making history because we are shaping the We got quite a lot of agreement, and that is relevant evolution of the United Kingdom’s constitution, and to this debate. Indeed, I think we got agreement in the this stage will be monitored for many years to come as convention on tax-raising powers, but they did not one of the stages along the route. It will represent the follow through into the original Scotland Bill. I remember foundation of a much more radical and decentralised that Donald Dewar even renewed his passport to travel United Kingdom over time. to Germany, and Jim Wallace, Ray Michie and I went to Spain to look at that country’s arrangements. On our Stewart Hosie: I respect the right hon. Gentleman’s return, we more or less agreed on the proposal to assign view that this is a process, and that he wants to reach half of all income tax revenues, and VAT and excise what he calls home rule within the UK. I suspect that duties, to the Scottish Parliament. The fact that those that probably means, in his mind and those of his proposals did not carry through into the first Scotland honourable colleagues, effectively a federal position Bill—I think; I suspect—owes a lot to the resistance of with full fiscal autonomy. I respect that position, but we the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath do not have that before us, so why is he prepared to (Mr Brown). The convention largely agreed to them, settle for a Bill that, while devolving speed limits for however, so I am particularly pleased that the Bill cars, will not allow the devolution of speed limits for before us moves in that direction and will allow them to cars drawing caravans? Why is he prepared to accept be introduced. something so weak? I also firmly believe—the Scottish National party ought to give thought to this—that those of us who Malcolm Bruce: If the hon. Gentleman will let me have brought forward and will take forward this legislation proceed with my speech, he will receive the answer, are working with the grain of majority opinion in precisely because I took part in the constitutional convention Scotland, in terms of wanting both more power and a when it was set up in the 1980s. At that time, we and the step-by-step approach. Those of my constituents who Labour party were in opposition, but the Conservative are sympathetic to the SNP cause are puzzled as to why party largely ignored the convention and the SNP boycotted it cannot work with other people and take a step-by-step it. Yet that constitutional convention carried out detailed approach. We could all decide at what point we wish to and thoughtful work that laid the foundations for get off, but that does not happen because the SNP the first Scotland Bill and, in my view, for this Bill and knows that the majority of people in Scotland would probably the next one. The difference between my party’s get off long before it did. approach and that of the SNP is that we, as a single party with an ambition, recognise that we cannot achieve Stewart Hosie: The right hon. Gentleman makes the on our own everything that we want; we have to work interesting assertion—it is only an assertion—that he with others who do not necessarily share all our views. believes he is working with the grain of Scottish public By working with them, however, we can progress towards opinion. I doubt that a single person has said to him, what we want to achieve; if we refuse to co-operate, we “That’s right Malcolm, we want 50% of the basic rate of cannot. income tax, 25% of the 40p rate and 20% of the 50p rate—that’s the grain in my street.” I do not think he is Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Will the right hon. right when he says that. Gentleman give way? Malcolm Bruce: No, but people have said to me, “I Malcolm Bruce: I shall make a little progress, if the want independence, as long as I can still be a British hon. Gentleman will allow me. citizen.” There is confusion in the minds of many At the time when the constitutional convention was people about what independence is. Two facts are clear: established, there was a minimalist position. Many people the majority of people vote for Unionist parties, and in the Labour party were prepared to consider an the majority of people say repeatedly that they want assembly. I accept that many were passionately in favour, more power, but that they want to take it in an orderly but others had reservations, and the minimalist position and measured fashion. It is up to the politicians, to involved an assembly, elected by first past the post, some extent, to work through what the priorities are funded by a block grant and operating with even fewer and how they should be worked up. That is precisely powers than the then Scotland Office. what this legislation does. The process—this is the real point that the SNP In the end, the SNP’s position is anti-democratic, should take on board—of the constitutional convention because it does not represent the majority. More to the meant that we finished up with a Parliament, with all point, it is unproductive. Frankly, it is downright lazy, the powers of the Scotland Office at that time, with a because many of us have done an awful lot of work to proportional voting system to make it much more nationally bring these proposals forward. Having done nothing to acceptable and, in fact, with non-defined reserved powers create the Scottish Parliament, the SNP is happy to use attached to the Parliament. That was a much more it and abuse it. It takes a similarly curmudgeonly approach radical outcome than the original agenda, and one that to this legislation. Of course it will not provide fiscal would not have been achieved if my party and others autonomy, which is, of course, a technical term for 499 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 500 separation from the UK, as was pointed out by the Steel years it will be down. However, the proposals provide commission, of which I was a member. There is no the potential for successful economic management to mandate for that. The proposals do not go as far as I provide genuine benefit. want them to go, but I have no hesitation in welcoming I would give more credibility to the SNP claims that them as a constructive step forward that will allow us to the measures are inadequate to grow the Scottish economy test how greater responsibility and accountability will if its record in government showed that it was using the work. In my view, as and when that does work, it will powers it currently has in ways that will grow the justify future extension. Scottish economy, but it has not done that. We have The Bill will give Scotland control over about 35% of seen a succession of populist consumer gimmicks; almost its budget, which I hope will increase over time. It will a complete collapse in public investment; and the slow ensure that Scotland has the capacity to demonstrate strangulation of local autonomy. Local councils have responsibility and accountability to justify more devolution. less and less control and more and more centralised In an ideal world, I would like each tier of government management through the freezing of council tax. There to have access to part of the taxes that broadly finance is effectively less flexibility across Scotland to gear its operations. In other words, each tier should be able responses to meet local needs. to get more or less all its revenue from its own tax base, subject to the recognition that the UK Government Margaret Curran: Will the right hon. Gentleman have fiscal transfer responsibilities. Perhaps on a smaller comment on the Scottish Futures Trust? Does he see scale, the Scottish Government should have some internal that as a model for using the levers appropriately to fiscal transfer responsibilities. That would be my ideal grow the Scottish economy? in the long run, but one has to take these things a step at a time and by negotiation. Malcolm Bruce: My next paragraph relates to my I want to pick up on the point on which the Secretary constituency, and I am sure the hon. Lady can predict of State has intervened two or three times. On a few the answer to that question. I did not have a problem occasions, I have heard the assertion—stated as a matter with the SNP saying that there were weaknesses in the of absolute fact—that had this arrangement already public-private partnership method of financing, and been in place, Scotland would have lost £8 billion. As that it wanted to look for a better method. I had a big has been pointed out, if that were true—which it is problem with it abandoning all those projects and failing not—it would be a clear demonstration of the benefit of to come up with a better method, leaving us in total being part of the United Kingdom, because that £8 limbo. That has been catastrophic for investment in billion would have been a transfer from the UK taxpayer Scotland—catastrophic, not just seriously bad. to Scotland. Of course, the assertion is perverse and a I am fortunate, privileged and honoured to represent nonsense. It is also retrospective, at a time when the the dynamic economy of the north-east of Scotland, balance is changing. It showed that, at a time of rising which is probably the most dynamic economy in the public spending, the Barnett formula delivered for Scotland whole of the United Kingdom at the moment. I and my at a faster rate than the rate at which incomes rose. Of hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and course, at a time of public spending constraint, the Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) represent the constituencies reverse will be the case—the income tax take will rise with the lowest unemployment rates in the United faster than the Barnett formula consequentials. Over time, Kingdom. I appreciate that other hon. Members face that can be averaged out—that is what the cash borrowing serious problems of unemployment in their constituencies, is for. That is the way that we should look at it. so I am not boasting about this; I am simply acknowledging The proposals give the Scottish Government the capacity it. The point is that Scotland has a region with the to benefit from economic success, which grows the tax capacity to deliver economic growth, yet the Scottish base and can potentially grow the revenue base. If they Government have conspicuously failed to deliver what use their powers well, they will benefit from the buoyancy they should have been doing to facilitate that growth. of the revenues. Of course, if they mismanage the There is no Aberdeen bypass. The Scottish Government economy, the reverse will be the case. The advantage of today announced the go-ahead for an upgrade of the the Bill is that the transitional arrangements and the A90 north of Aberdeen. I am glad about that, but all cash borrowing adjustments will provide a cushion to they have done is to announce, a year after the public minimise the extremes of that effect. However, they will inquiry, that they intend to go ahead with it. There is no not deny a bit of pain if it goes wrong and a bit of date, and it is dependent on the resolution of the benefit if it goes right. Over time, one hopes that that western peripheral route, which is still subject to legal will become a more substantial amount. argument. When the SNP loses office in May, not one stretch of tarmac will have been laid and not one ditch Stewart Hosie: The right hon. Gentleman is simply will have been dug—nothing will have happened on the wrong about this matter. Although the Scottish Government ground. will control 15% of the taxes raised in Scotland, if GDP rises and the tax take rises, the rise in the income tax Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): What take will be lower than the average. That will have a did the right hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in the previous deflationary effect on the Scottish budget and will not Scottish Administration do to progress the Aberdeen allow the Scottish Government to benefit in the way western peripheral route? When did they make a decision that he describes. to go ahead with it?
Malcolm Bruce: On the models that I have seen, the Malcolm Bruce: They published the line of route for reverse is the case, particularly at a time of public both that and for the A90. It took the SNP four years to spending constraint. The point is that it will depend on make no progress at all. It has not indicated how it will changes over time—some years it will be up and some find the money or when the scheme will ever start. 501 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 502
[Malcolm Bruce] a massive financial problem, and Scotland has a disproportionate share of that problem in its needs, its I do not know what it is about the SNP, but it has a share of the national debt and its share in the underwriting total hostility to railways. It either scraps, delays or fails of the banks, which has brought us to this pass. The to take forward every rail project. Part of the transport reality is that Scotland’s future lies absolutely within the needs of Aberdeen, and part of the proposal for our UK, but it is important that we have the power to take bypass, was a commuter rail service to restrict the appropriate decisions, accountable to the people of growth of road traffic and give people choices. Progress Scotland, in ways that can help us make our own was being made with that, but not even the provision of contribution to solving those problems in our own way. one additional station has progressed under the SNP in As one or two Members have mentioned—it was spite of cross-party support from all other quarters. We alluded to by Calman—the transfer of benefits policy have had an SNP Government for four years, and they to Scotland has been suggested. That might happen in have had the powers to do things to grow the Scottish the longer term, but most people would acknowledge economy—limited those powers may be, but they have that the administration of certain aspects of benefits had them—and they have not done so. They should could be devolved or shared. At the moment, however, prove that they can do that before they demand more Scotland’s benefits bill is disproportionate, so the matter powers that they do not appear competent to use. is much better shared across the UK, especially during these particularly difficult times. Mr Weir: The right hon. Gentleman has just made an We have embarked on a fundamental and radical outrageous attack on the subject of rail. He should ask welfare reform, which, leaving aside any controversial the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine aspects, many people recognise has merit if it can (Sir Robert Smith) about the reopening of Laurencekirk deliver responsive benefits, value for work and so on. In station, for example. What about the Bathgate rail line? the longer term it might be possible for Scotland to take What about the Alloa-Stirling line stations? All those a role in administering welfare, but now would hardly things happened under the SNP Government. What he be the right moment to do so, as we are in the middle of said is simply incorrect. a major funding deficit and a major reform programme. We must make common-sense decisions, taking on board Stewart Hosie: Withdraw! Yousaid “no new stations”. what can practically be done now and acknowledging Withdraw now! that further transfers could happen in the short term, when we are good and ready. Consideration at a later Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. date can take us further forward. Mr Hosie, I think that is my business, not yours, and I should like clarification on two questions that have I would be very grateful if you did not shout across the been raised with me. One relates to the progressive Chamber. commitment that the coalition Government have made on the threshold level of tax. As a former Treasury Malcolm Bruce: I acknowledge that some of those spokesman for my party, our commitment to raising the things have happened, but the SNP has been very good level at which people pay tax to £10,000, starting with at cutting the ribbons on projects that were announced, £1,000 in the current year and progressing during this organised and set in motion by previous local or national Parliament, is dear to my heart. I wonder whether the Administrations. Under-Secretary in his reply can explain how that will be accommodated in calculating the tax revenues that Gordon Banks: The hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) would accrue to Scotland, or compensated for so that mentioned the Sterling-Alloa railway line. The right it does not create a disadvantage out of a good and hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) is exactly progressive reform. right—the SNP came and cut the ribbon, but the hard My second question relates to some aspects of charity work was done under the previous Administration, not law, which are not just peculiar to Scotland. When the current one. public authorities are looking to charities and the voluntary sector to take on more responsibilities for delivering Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Many speakers have public services, it raises questions about their status, gone very wide of the subject in illustrating the points and particularly their VAT liabilities. If a local authority that they wish to make. Mr Bruce, I would be grateful if or a health board provides services, there is no VAT, you came back to the subject of the Bill in responding whereas if such services are provided by a voluntary to the intervention. organisation, there may be VAT liabilities. That may inhibit the transfer arrangements, which might otherwise Malcolm Bruce: I will of course observe your strictures, be welcome. I acknowledge that that probably involves Madam Deputy Speaker, but when we are talking about the Treasury and the Scotland Office, but I would powers, it is important that we also discuss our capacity appreciate some clarification if possible. to use those powers effectively. My contention is that In the past 20 years, we have embarked on a process the points I have made show why we need to take a of restructuring the UK in a radical and decentralised step-by-step approach and demonstrate how well we way. As has been said in the past, devolution is a can use our powers, and then hopefully take more of process, not an end product. No piece of legislation them. ends it. The Scottish National party wants the end to be Those who want to go faster have to acknowledge independence. That is a perfectly respectable position, that Scotland’s capacity to take on the full responsibility but for that, it has to win the support of the people of for its own financial affairs is beyond credibility in the Scotland, which it is conspicuously failing to do. In the present circumstances. The UK is struggling to tackle meantime, for those of us who want a stronger Scotland, 503 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 504 with more control over its affairs and playing its full who have visited the Scottish Parliament, and to inform part in the United Kingdom, the Bill represents a major those who have not, that the Donald Dewar room at and significant step forward. It will, in my view, strengthen Holyrood carries this quote from John P. Mackintosh: the United Kingdom, strengthen Scotland’s role and “People in Scotland want a degree of government for themselves. accountability, and perhaps enable the people of Scotland It is not beyond the wit of man to devise the institutions to meet to look to their destiny and say, “We cannot always these demands.” blame London and other people, we have to use the instruments that we have to help ourselves, and co-operate Labour finally devised the institution to meet those with others to ensure that we tackle the bigger problems demands and delivered on Keir Hardie’s original aim of together.” That is what the United Kingdom is about, home rule. Another of my predecessors, John Hume and also what the devolution home rule settlement is Robertson, not only believed in home rule, but lived about. They are not incompatible; both are essential. and breathed it as he served East Lothian in both the The Bill is a positive step forward, and will be beneficial House of Commons and the Scottish Parliament. to Scotland and the United Kingdom. Constitutional reform should rise above party politics. The SNP has shown throughout today’s debate not only 2.37 pm that its politics are separatist, but that its approach to politics—the way it does politics—is separatist. The Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): I pay tribute Labour way is to work with other parties to achieve to the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) consensus, which is what it has done through the Scottish for an illuminating and useful contribution to today’s Constitutional Convention and the Calman commission. debate. I am afraid that mine will not be as lengthy, but SNP representatives were absent from both, which must I humbly hope that it will also illuminate the debate. make theirs the longest political huff in history. They I am sorry that the love of Scotland of the hon. are less outside the tent than squatting on a different Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) could not hold campsite altogether. Indeed, they have not been happy her in the Chamber longer because she expressed campers, although there have been an unusual number disappointment that today’s debate is not taking place of references to caravans. on the birthday of Mr Robert Burns. However, I can We today take Scotland forward to a new era. It is confirm that it takes place on my birthday, and I can right and it is time that the Scottish Parliament takes think of no better way to celebrate than to speak in greater responsibility for its expenditure and matches support of the Scotland Bill. that with accountability. Of course, the Bill goes further than that in giving substantial borrowing powers to John Robertson: How sad! Scotland. I hope that we can now move away from a time when the SNP Government used every capital Fiona O’Donnell: I expect that it is a reflection of building programme as an opportunity to fight at what has happened to my life since coming to this place. Westminster, rather than as an opportunity to fight for I begin, rather unusually, by apologising to the hon. Scotland. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) SNP Members have still to tell us whether they will for my rather bad-tempered intervention. It makes me vote for the Bill or seek to wreck it today. They have an angry when I hear the SNP, given its record, complaining opportunity to see Scotland move forward, but they about the process that has brought us here today, and appear to be unwilling even now to rise to give us clarity the Calman commission. It also makes me angry when on that question—[Interruption.] the hon. Gentleman questions whether the Bill will receive due scrutiny. I hope that, now he has heard the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Pete Wishart: I just got bored listening to this. I’ve North (Ann McKechin), he realises that Labour will heard it all before. give the Bill due scrutiny, and that he will also welcome the inquiry by the Scottish Affairs Committee, on which the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) Fiona O’Donnell: If the hon. Gentleman is bored, he serves. That will give us further opportunities to examine could make the debate more interesting by intervening the Bill. to answer that question, but he remains silent. I remind the hon. Member for Perth and North The SNP has argued for full fiscal autonomy for Perthshire that the Calman commission consulted the Scotland, but that is not what Scotland needs. Scotland public, experts and interested groups at 12 local engagement needs the security that is offered by remaining part of events all over Scotland. It received 300 written submissions, the Union, which is what the Bill gives it. and held 50 public and 27 private evidence sessions. That compares more than favourably with the national What would the SNP have done with the banks in an conversation. The hon. Gentleman asked my hon. Friend independent Scotland? [Interruption.] Yes. I am afraid the Member for Glasgow North how much it had cost. that it is all fantasy and Brigadoon on the SNP side. I A conversation among Unionists is a far bigger conversation urge SNP Members to think again—in the words of than one just among nationalists. another Scottish poet—and to consider giving their support to the Bill. I also I urge them not press to a I am particularly pleased to be speaking in today’s Division an amendment that seeks to deprive Scotland debate because I follow in the footsteps of John P. of an opportunity to move forward. Mackintosh. His approach was one of integrity and commitment, and he wanted genuine constitutional I thank the House for the short time that it has reform and the flourishing of the democratic expression indulged me, and urge hon. Members to support the of the Scottish people. I should like to remind Members Bill. 505 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 506
2.44 pm improve the financial accountability of the Scottish John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): I am grateful for the Parliament and to continue to secure the position of opportunity to participate in this debate. My contribution Scotland in the UK. It is in terms of those three key will be modest, given that I am not versed in the points that we must consider the Bill. intricacies of the politics of Scotland, although I am As Calman said, the devolution settlement is a “real learning quite a lot this afternoon. As a Scot who has success” and “works well in practice”. In many respects, family in Scotland, I have a great interest in what that outcome is supported by the Bill, which does not happens there and I would like to see Scotland succeed. dramatically rewrite the devolution settlement, but fine-tunes I am also interested in the continuing relationship between and adds to it. As hon. Members have said, the key the devolved Government and the national Government. aspect of the Bill is the changes on tax, but it also Most importantly, I represent a constituency on the includes drink-driving limits, speed limits and other border, so I want to be aware of the implications of the measures. I suspect the drink-driving limits and speed Bill for my constituents. limits will be of more interest to those of my constituents I appreciate that the Bill is primarily relevant to who travel over the border. Scotland, but it does have a potential impact in England, One omission from the Bill is welfare and social and that impact will be most pronounced in the border security. It will be interesting to see how the Government area, affecting seats such as Berwick-upon-Tweed, Hexham, approach that in due course, but I appreciate that a Penrith and the Border, Workington and, of course, national debate on that subject is going on. The reforms Carlisle. Indeed, in my part of the country, we have an that the Government are proposing nationally must unusual relationship with Scotland in that we were not have priority. part of the Domesday book because we were part of Income tax is the obvious area that could have an Scotland at the time. Subsequently, we had the “Debatable impact on cross-border relationships. There are people Lands”, the reivers, and the movement of the border to who live in Scotland and work in England and vice Hadrian’s wall and so on. Indeed, that continues to this versa. However, I believe that there is nothing wrong in very day with the invasion of Carlisle every Saturday having different tax rates between different places—we by people coming over the border to shop and for see it at local government level with domestic rates—and entertainment. I therefore have a slightly different perspective allowing the Scottish Parliament to be able to set its on this debate to many hon. Members north of the own income tax rate creates accountability, responsibility border. and transparency. There will no doubt be some concern in my area about the Bill and the impact, in particular, of the The tax that I am probably most interested in, and tax-raising powers. In reality, many of the issues already the one that gives Scotland a real opportunity to be exist: there are separate laws on housing, inheritance innovative, relates to old-fashioned stamp duty land tax and planning. In some ways, the planning laws have and how it could be applied to commercial and residential been beneficial to parts of Scotland, with Gretna being property. If the Scottish Parliament is innovative, that an example. Traditionally, licensing laws were different. will give it the opportunity to gain a commercial advantage, I remember when I moved to Chester from Scotland, I which could be beneficial to the local economy. However, got a shock when the pub closed at 10.30 rather than 12, the Bill is not just about transferring powers; it is also but England has since progressed. Scotland was also about providing the tools for Scotland to improve itself. ahead of the curve on the smoking ban, to its credit. At The really exciting part of the Bill is that the Scottish times, Scotland can be more progressive and innovative. Government and Parliament will receive incentives and Indeed, those who live on the border are often more control over their own economic destiny. aware of the differences between the two countries and In my view, the Scottish economy needs to have a the various laws that affect them. smaller public sector and a much larger private sector. I welcome the Bill and its proposals. They are very Scotland needs to grow its private sector, and by doing much in line with the recommendations of the Calman that it needs to increase its population, build more report, which has broad support in this Chamber. It is houses and create more businesses. It will now have also in line with my own philosophical viewpoint and some of the tools to achieve that, via business rates, that of the Conservative party—and of the Liberal SDLT and income tax. This is a real opportunity for Democrats—including a belief in localism, decentralisation Scotland. If it can grow its tax base, it can reap the and financial accountability.Devolution is now an accepted benefits. So I welcome the Bill. It achieves the key part of our political culture and is generally accepted by objectives of the Calman commission. It gives Scotland most people. Therefore, the issues that we now have to a greater opportunity to do things differently and, debate are the workings of devolution, how to make it perhaps, better, and interestingly enough, the 2015 election better, how to achieve the right balance and the powers will give the political parties an opportunity to offer that we give to the devolved Assembly. Giving powers different visions of a future Scotland. That is healthy away is very much in line with the localism agenda, for Scottish democracy and the Scottish Parliament, including the need for responsibility and the link between and will help to strengthen the Union. spending and taxation. Indeed, in many respects, that link has been missing in the English local government Anas Sarwar: I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s comments debate as well as in the Scottish one, but I am delighted and am pleased that he supports the Bill. I just want to that the Government are starting to address that issue highlight the irony of a Tory Back Bencher supporting for English councils just as they are for Scotland in this more powers for Scotland, but the Scottish National Bill. party voting against it. The aim of the Calman commission was to recommend changes to the present constitutional arrangements in John Stevenson: There is certainly a degree of irony in three ways—to serve the people of Scotland better, to that. I welcome the Bill. 507 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 508
2.52 pm Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman is wrong. Any country will see its tax revenues fall or rise with the Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab): I congratulate economic cycle—the one that the right hon. Member my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Fiona for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) said he O’Donnell) on her excellent and entertaining contribution. had ended. The difficulty with the proposals in the Bill I would also like to congratulate her—on behalf of the is not that tax revenues may go up or down, but that whole House, I am sure—on it being her birthday. She they embed a deflationary bias in the Scottish budget. tells me that she is 21. That is 21 plus VAT at a rate of 30%—do the math! [Interruption.] She is the same age as me—well, slightly younger. Graeme Morrice: I am obviously aware of the objection to the Bill from the SNP—it is an objection that we I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this often hear—which is that it would mean less money for debate. There can be no matter of greater importance to the Scottish Parliament. Indeed, the First Minister claims Scotland than the question of how we strengthen the that the Scottish budget would have been considerably devolution that has helped to improve the lives of our worse under Calman, compared with the current regime, constituents over the past 11 years. Nor should we yet Alex Salmond refuses to publish the numbers setting forget that it was a Labour Government who brought out what his plans for fiscal autonomy would have devolution to Scotland, through the creation of a Scottish meant for the Scottish budget in the last 10 years. Parliament with a significant and comprehensive range of statutory powers. Now, after more than a decade of Pete Wishart: It is not just the First Minister who has devolution, the time is right to take the next steps in said that there is a fiscal drag with the current plans— developing Scotland’s democracy and its relationship £7 billion is what we argue—but the Secretary of State, with the other nations of the United Kingdom. who said that the figure would be £700 million, so we That opportunity was provided, of course, only through are in pretty good company. If that was the loss to the the establishment by the previous Labour Government Scottish budget, would the hon. Gentleman object to of the Calman commission. The proposals in the Bill, these tax proposals? which are rooted in Calman’s cross-party work, reflect the overwhelming desire of the Scottish people to anchor Graeme Morrice: The reality is that Government Scotland’s future firmly in the United Kingdom. On expenditure in Scotland is considerably greater than the that basis, I support the principles in the Bill. There are sums raised in taxes. In fact, in 2008-09, the last year for differences of detail, of course, between Labour’s approach which figures are available, total public sector revenue and the plans in the Bill. For instance, the aggregates in Scotland was £43.5 billion, whereas total public levy, food labelling and charity registration have been sector expenditure was £56.5 billion. Under the separation omitted from the Bill. Matters of considerable detail that Mr Salmond wants, that would lead to a fiscal will need to be thrashed out, but the principles are the deficit of £13 billion. Let us turn to the fallacy peddled right ones. Greater magnitude of fiscal autonomy and by the SNP that only under a system of full fiscal improved accountability and transparency will ensure autonomy would Scotland’s economy be able to generate that Scotland’s stability and her place in the United growth. There is little evidence to suggest that this is Kingdom remain strong. the case. Professor Lars Feld, one of the world’s leading authorities on decentralisation, has concluded: There are those who say that the Bill is part of the slippery slope to independence. There are those who “We do not find any robust significant effect of decentralisation said the same thing about creating a Scottish Parliament, on economic growth”. but 10 years on, support for independence is at an Professor Anton Muscatelli of Glasgow university has all-time low. Strengthening devolution does not undermine said that the United Kingdom; it makes it stronger. The importance “there is absolutely no statistical relationship between fiscal autonomy of that strength could not have been demonstrated and growth, nor can there be.” more acutely than by the economic events of the past three years, yet the SNP still preaches separation. Rescuing The Scottish Parliament’s competencies are already the Scottish banks could never have transpired under substantial, but we need to do more to increase independence, and the turmoil in the Irish economy accountability. Unlike the funding of most devolved demonstrates how vulnerable independence would have regions by national Governments around the world, left the Scottish people. Scotland’s block grant is unconditional and can be spent in whichever way chosen. Voters in Scotland and The question of devolution is settled; how we make it Members of the Scottish Parliament are therefore not work better for Scotland is the challenge that the vast exposed to the choice between public expenditure and majority of Scottish people want us to address. It is additional taxation. The Bill ensures that those choices perverse that the SNP, which stands on a platform of are made. More shared taxes; new devolved taxes; greater autonomy, has refused to engage with the Calman borrowing; greater transparency; a fair balance of shared commission to create and shape new powers for Scotland. risk across the United Kingdom—that is a fair balance There is an incredible irony at the heart of the SNP of new powers to create the accountability that the position. It rejects the Calman commission because it Scottish Parliament needs. The Scottish Parliament will exposes Scotland to falling tax receipts. The SNP talks be answerable to the Scottish people for the money that about full fiscal autonomy as an answer to Calman, but it raises and spends. That is what the vast majority of exposure to falling tax receipts would apply to Scotland’s Scottish people want. They do not want separation, but budget whatever the degree of financial powers it acquired. they do want a Scottish Parliament that is responsible Far from improving, the position under independence for the decisions that it takes, and that is why I am would be considerably worse. supporting this Bill. 509 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 510
2.59 pm and the United Kingdom. The point is nevertheless an important one, because if that concern is left unchecked, Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I welcome the Union will suffer. If people in England think that the opportunity to speak in this debate. Although I Scotland is getting an unfair advantage from the financial represent a seat south of the border, I have a long-standing arrangements, the Union will suffer. As a Unionist, I interest in devolution matters. I not only spent my make no apology for saying that; as a Unionist, I say formative years in Hamilton, but when the original that the Union suffering is the last thing I want to see. If Scotland Bill passed through the House in 1998, I acted Scotland wants to increase spending in a particular as an adviser to the then shadow Front-Bench team, area, or introduce free care, tuition fees or whatever, the which included my hon. Friend the Member for Epping Scottish Parliament will now have to find more of that Forest (Mrs Laing). I have thus gained a probably money, and that is an important point for strengthening unhealthy level of detailed knowledge of the Scotland the Union. Act 1998, and I hope to draw on it a little in my contribution. Mr Weir: I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman. I trust that the House will not object if I draw on a He talks about the financial responsibility of the Scottish book on the Barnett formula and fiscal autonomy, Parliament, but why does he feel that that should be which I co-authored in 2003 with the eminent Scottish confined to income tax? Does he not agree with Lord lawyer, Professor Ross Harper. For the avoidance of Forsyth, a former Tory Secretary of State for Scotland, doubt, let me say that I am not seeking to advertise the who said: book: it is no longer for sale and I received no royalties for it at the time. Let me just say that it was not “The SNP quite rightly argues that you can’t just limit it to income tax and stamp duty if you want to manage the economy. troubling “Harry Potter” for the No. 1 spot on the You can’t play golf with just one club”? best-seller list. Nevertheless, I hope that the research we did for the book will help our deliberations today. The point is that if the Scottish Parliament is to have responsibility, it must have responsibility not just for I want to put on record the fact that I was sceptical varying income tax, but for managing the economy. about devolution at the time of the referendum in 1997. I campaigned and voted against the devolution measures. I am happy to say that many of the doubts I had at that Iain Stewart: I beg the hon. Gentleman’s patience, as time have not been borne out by events. I believe that I will turn to those points in a moment. the Scottish Parliament reflects the settled will of the Scottish people and that, on the whole, it has been a David Mowat: My hon. Friend makes a powerful success. Our job today is to improve and strengthen it, point about the threat to the Union posed by a perception thereby strengthening the Union. The Scottish Parliament of unfairness in relative funding, and giving Scotland is not perfect, however, as there are some deficiencies, control over its tax revenue raising will partially address but I believe that the Bill goes a long way towards that. However, it is widely accepted that the baseline, improving them. under the Barnett allocation, is 15% to 20% higher than I want to focus, as much of the debate has, on the it would be in equivalent places in England, and that is transfer of fiscal powers. It is right that the Scottish an issue for the Union. Parliament is more accountable for the money it spends—a flip of the old adage, “No taxation without representation”. Iain Stewart: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am It is right for the Scottish Parliament to be held accountable not sure whether his birthday is coming up, but I will to its electors for its own spending decisions. Going happily send him a copy of my book, which goes into back to the 1997 referendum, I was intrigued by the the matter in some detail. The baseline funding for option that did not get much coverage at the time, when Scotland is an important point, but whether to have a the debate centred on the “yes/yes” or the “no/no” needs-based assessment is not part of the Bill, although campaign. Some people believed in the “no/yes”option— the Bill opens up the possibility that that will be reviewed they did not want a Scottish Parliament, but thought in future. that if there was to be one, it should have proper fiscal powers and be held accountable. Malcolm Bruce: No one can deny that these are I hope that the Bill will improve participation in legitimate issues for debate, but does my hon. Friend Scottish Parliament elections. Although the turnout is not acknowledge that when we look at the matter detail higher than for local government, it is lower than for by detail—my right hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil elections to this place, in which turnout is in no way at a (Mr Laws), when he was adviser to my party, did some particularly high level. Part of the reason for that lower work on this—we see that a high proportion of the turnout is that Members of the Scottish Parliament can spending differential is justified by remoteness, the different make spending decisions without being directly accountable balances, benefits and so forth? A part of it is not to their taxpayers and electors for them. I strongly accounted for, but the gap is nothing like as big as my support the Bill’s principles in addressing that point. hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Speaking as an English Member, I want to put on Mowat) suggests. record the fact that I often hear representations from constituents about why Scotland has free tuition, free Iain Stewart: My right hon. Friend makes an important prescriptions and so forth, which people do not have in point. The whole subject is difficult and complex, given England. I explain that the financial relationship between the shorthand of Barnett and the vast difference between Scotland and England is much more complicated than public spending in Scotland and England. In some the Barnett formula, which people often use as a shorthand areas, however, for the reasons that he has set out, there to explain the whole fiscal relationship between Scotland is a big difference, and those reasons will also be found 511 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 512 in England. For instance, in remote parts of Cumbria plans which attract the adding back on of basic or or Devon, spending per head will be higher than in higher-rate tax contributions should be treated. If in the central London or Manchester. past contributions have been made at the United Kingdom rate and added back on, a different Scottish rate will Pete Wishart: If the hon. Gentleman looks at the create potential anomalies when it comes to how that study by Oxford Economics, he will find that London income is treated. I suspect that a fairly small amount is secures more public spending than any region or nation involved overall, but it is an important detail that ought in the UK. If he and the hon. Member for Warrington to be clarified before the Bill is implemented. South (David Mowat) are concerned about grant formula I welcome the move to devolve some taxes, and I and Scotland’s spending relative to England’s, I have hope that more can be devolved in time. I hope that, for good news for them: they can vote to change that in the instance, the issues surrounding the aggregates levy and next few weeks and allow Scotland to have full fiscal air passenger duty issues will be resolved. I do not responsibility. That would allow all the Barnett issues to believe that this is the end of the story; I trust that those disappear. If we were allowed to have the economic two taxes will eventually be devolved, and that the levers to grow our economy, we would be self-reliant on Scottish Parliament will be given greater fiscal autonomy. taxation. I referred earlier to the book that I co-authored. Part of our research involved international comparisons. Iain Stewart: As I said to the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir), if the hon. Gentleman allows me to make a Mrs Laing: I hesitate to interrupt my hon. Friend, but little progress, I will come to the issue of full fiscal he has just demonstrated that he is one of the few autonomy in a moment. people who understand, and have carried out an in-depth Clearly, the existing Scotland Act contains some fiscal study of, the relationship between United Kingdom and powers for the Scottish Parliament: principally, the Scottish finance. He is being modest about his book, ability to vary the basic rate of income tax by 3p higher but I need not be modest on his behalf. It is an excellent or lower than the UK rate. That has never been used, publication, which I have consulted on many occasions. partly because the SNP Administration in Edinburgh May I ask him to show the House his book and tell us has allowed the levy required each year for the mechanism its title, so that every Member in the Chamber— to stay in place not to be paid. There is a more fundamental [Interruption.] I do not think he will make any money point, however: the administrative and set-up costs for from it. However, some Members might be better educated making that small change in the income tax rate are in future if they knew more about it. I believe that it is disproportionate to the revenue that would be raised. called “It’s Our Money! Who Spends It?” When the House was considering the Bill that became the Scotland Act 1998, it was calculated that it would Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. That was a very long raise, at the most, an additional £450 million. Given a intervention. I think that the hon. Lady has given the total Scottish Office budget of over £22 billion, it was a hon. Gentleman his advertisement; perhaps we can now tiny measure and would involve considerable start-up return to the debate. and administrative costs and not generate enough revenue. I can understand why it has not been introduced so far. Iain Stewart: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I sense a rising demand for my book. Next Christmas is a Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman talks of the little way off, but I have a couple of boxes of back amount that might be raised if the tax rate were put up. copies which I will happily distribute. There is, however, a built-in perverse disincentive to As I was saying, part of our research involved examining lower the tax rate. If the income tax rate, for example, the way in which other countries—Australia, Germany were lowered and that stimulated economic growth, and and Canada—operated financial relationships between if the benefit were paid from higher corporation tax state Governments and federal Governments, or provincial receipts, the Scottish Parliament would take the hit Governments, or whatever the term was in those countries. of reduced income tax, while the United Kingdom What struck us was that each of those countries has a Government would gain the advantage of enhanced system that comes close to what the Scotland Bill is corporation tax. proposing to introduce. Certain taxes are levied at the federal level. The example in each country varies, but Iain Stewart: I am explaining why I do not think the some taxes are levied at the provincial level—the state provisions in the current Scotland Act are sufficient, level—and sometimes the state level has the power to and why I welcome the measures to increase substantially introduce specific taxes of its own. That is balanced by the power of the Scottish Parliament to raise a significant a form of fiscal transfers between the federal level and chunk of its own revenue. There are still concerns about the state level. There are perpetual arguments in all how they will be implemented, and I raised that point those countries about what the right level of spending, during Scottish questions yesterday. I have been reassured taxes, transfers and so on is—we will never get away that proper consultation is taking place with members from those—but on the whole the arrangements are of the business community in Scotland, who will have stable. We can draw some comfort from the fact that the to administer many of the new arrangements, but I urge lessons from abroad point to the sort of system that the my colleagues on the Front Bench to keep a close watch Bill is trying to introduce. on the increased regulatory burden on businesses at a Conversely, there are few examples of a federal or time when they can ill afford much additional bureaucracy. devolved system of government where the lower level I think the HMRC bodies should consider the possibility has full fiscal autonomy. Our research encountered only of certain unintended consequences. There is, for instance, one example that came quite close to such an arrangement, the question of how payments into personal pension which was in the Basque part of Spain. Since we did our 513 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 514
[Iain Stewart] disagree with the assumptions made, but they could not analyse particularly and exactly what the Scottish revenues work Catalonia has also adopted such an arrangement, were. but it is still fraught with difficulties. I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence from abroad to warrant Stewart Hosie rose— the type of policy that the Scottish nationalists wish to introduce. Iain Stewart: Before the hon. Gentleman intervenes, I wish to illustrate that point by discussing two SNP Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman says that the publications that examined the period between 1979 approach of the Basque country and others may be and 1997. In one document, published in October 1996, fraught with difficulties, but that country’s gross domestic the SNP estimated that Scotland had contributed product growth is now 30% higher than that of Spain as £91 billion to the UK over that period. Three months a whole and its credit rating is stronger than that of later, however, it published a separate report covering Spain as a whole. Although that sort of model may the same period which calculated that the figure had need to overcome obstacles, it clearly has had some been £27 billion. Well, what is £60 billion between success. friends? The point is that anyone wanting to analyse this has to do it on the basis of assumptions, not hard facts. Iain Stewart: The hon. Gentleman has a more detailed knowledge of the current state of the Basque economy Stewart Hosie: I certainly agree that the Government than I do, but our research showed that there were Expenditure and Revenue Scotland—GERS—survey is specific problems there. I shall discuss them in a moment, based on certain assumptions and calculations. Most of as they are directly relevant to the example in Scotland. the documents, certainly over the past decade, have effectively taken the GERS assumptions and, if they Malcolm Bruce: Does my hon. Friend acknowledge have differed from them, have always explained why. that joining the inland revenue contribution club is not Those differences tended to be marginal. The key question a popular sport in Spain? The Spanish have found that here is not SNP figures versus those of another party; devolving this responsibility results in the tax collection it is the work done by organisations such as Oxford rate increasing substantially. No comparison can be Economics or, about a year ago, Reform Scotland, made with the situation in this country, because one which calculated a broadly balanced budget of about cannot escape the Inland Revenue. £50 billion out and £50 billion in. Those seem to be generally accepted pre-recession figures.
Iain Stewart: My right hon. Friend makes a powerful Iain Stewart: But surely the point is that, if we want point. to set up new fiscal arrangements between the constituent parts of the United Kingdom, we should not do it on Mark Lazarowicz: Perhaps I should add that the the basis of assumptions. We should do it on the basis Basque country and Catalonia have always had higher of hard facts, and one of the conclusions of the book is gross national product rates than the rest of Spain, so I that we need to do more hard research and assign do not think that the point made by the hon. Member revenues and spending on a territorial basis. Such proposals for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) has much weight. are not in the Bill, but I hope that the Government will take those matters forward. Iain Stewart: I am grateful for that intervention. I I shall give the House an example to illustrate why think it is unhelpful to make an exact analogy with a there would be a huge debate about the revenue. Let us particular model. Spain has a very curious multi-speed take Standard Life, which is headquartered in Edinburgh. system of devolution between its different constituent If corporation tax were devolved, the company would parts. be domiciled as Scottish, yet it trades throughout the United Kingdom and has many policyholders in England I promised to discuss why I do not believe, certainly who contribute to its profits. How would we determine at this point, that fiscal autonomy is feasible or desirable which profits were Scottish and which were English? for the Scottish Parliament. There are huge unknowns These are huge issues and they would have to be resolved in the fiscal relationship between Scotland and England, before a full system of fiscal autonomy could be introduced. for the simple reason that we have never assigned tax revenues or allocated public spending on a straight Mr Weir: Surely that is a problem that affects all territorial basis—that just has not happened. As part of companies that operate across national borders, of which, our research for the book, I spent many hours enjoying in this globalised world, there are many thousands. Why and analysing the various forecasts and documents that would that present a particular difficulty for Scotland? the Scottish National party had published over the years giving its view on what Scotland’s net contribution Iain Stewart: I believe that it would be a difficulty, to or net borrowing from the United Kingdom had and I have seen no evidence from the Scottish National been. party that properly costs this or assesses what the split Part of the SNP’s criticism was that the official would be. Government figures, as published in the annual Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland survey, were based Mark Lazarowicz: Are not the economies of England, on assumptions about what Scotland’s share of corporation Scotland and the rest of the UK so closely integrated tax or income tax should be. However, the SNP’s own and dependent on each other that the consequences figures are based on assumptions and projections. They would not be the same as might be the case for, say, 515 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 516
Germany and France? On the hon. Gentleman’s point In conclusion, I welcome the Bill. It is a huge step about Standard Life, I am not normally someone who forward, even for people like me who were devolution tries to air scare tactics about what might happen to the sceptics to begin with. It will do an enormous amount financial services sector under independence, but would to strengthen the Scottish Parliament and the Union. I there not be a danger that some companies, faced with look forward to supporting it in the Lobby tonight. the choices and difficulties that he has outlined, might choose to move their headquarters out of Scotland precisely because of the consequences of a differential 3.27 pm in corporation tax rates? Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Milton Keynes Iain Stewart: That is exactly the point. The relationship South (Iain Stewart). I listened carefully to his analysis between Scotland and England is so interwoven that to and, 13 years on, I now realise why the hon. Member start to unpick it now would be hugely complicated and for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) was so well briefed in difficult. On the point about pensions, I have mentioned some of the intricacies of the Barnett formula. The the potential difficulties under the current proposals hon. Gentleman has posed some fascinating and interesting that would need to be clarified. If there were full fiscal questions this afternoon. autonomy, those problems would be magnified many I made my maiden speech in 1997 on the Referendums times over. People might have made national insurance (Scotland and Wales) Bill, which paved the way for the contributions all through their lives. How would all Scottish Parliament. It is fair to say that both the hon. that be untangled to sort out the different rights and Gentleman and the hon. Lady recognised that, collectively, contributions? The process would be enormously we have travelled a long way in this House—at least, complicated. I am not saying that it would be impossible, most of us have. I shall come on to those who are still but I do not believe that it is practical at this point in stuck at the station a wee bit later. time. I hope that my right hon. Friends on the Front We have travelled a long way and in many ways the Bench will take up my point that we should move Members who are participating in today’s debate reflect towards assigning revenues and spending on a straight that. We have a former Member of the Scottish Parliament, territorial basis, so that in time we might be able to who, as the Under-Secretary, will be helping to drive move to a system involving much greater devolution of this Bill through along with most of us. Of course, we fiscal power down to the Scottish Parliament. have two current Members of the Scottish Parliament, my hon. Friends the Members for Kilmarnock and Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman’s speech is throwing Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) and for Glasgow East up practical issues that would have to be resolved in any (Margaret Curran), both of whom have extensive experience circumstances. On his first concern, would the broad not only of the workings of the Scottish Parliament but principle not be accepted that the tax liability would of the workings of government in Scotland, as they are follow the economic activity? On his second concern both former Ministers. about corporation tax rising, I would prefer to see Collectively, in the Chamber today we have a unique corporation tax falling. Is it not odd that we have a opportunity to discuss the importance of the Scotland party that is very keen on tax competition until it comes Bill. I recognise its importance and identify with the to Scotland’s competing? Is that not slightly contradictory? statement made by Donald Dewar—devolution was “a process and not an event”. Iain Stewart: It is not a contradictory at all and I am We are all part of that process. In my opinion, there is not saying that I rule out that possibility. My book does no doubt that the relationship between the UK and not rule it out. All I am saying is that at this point in Scotland and their governmental institutions has matured time it would be an enormous leap in the dark that to a point where there is widespread recognition that would throw up so many unintended consequences that the devolved approach has strengthened the United it would be a foolhardy move. I welcome the sensible Kingdom and its four nations, working together. There incremental step that the Bill is taking. are still some cynics among us—the ultra-Unionists, I have probably been indulged by the House rather who perhaps do not see this as a way forward for the longer than I intended. I want to move briefly to one United Kingdom, and their uneasy bedfellows, the other point before I resume my seat. It concerns another nationalists, who have a fundamental view. I fully accept part of the Bill about which I have a specific concern, their right to hold that view. I do not have any problem and that is the proposal to devolve down to the Scottish with their ultimate aim of independence; I just thank Parliament the power to set the drink-driving limit. I God every day for the sanity of the Scottish people, am a member of the Select Committee on Transport who have never accepted that analysis, but that analysis and we have just concluded an investigation into the is obviously still there. The majority of people in Scotland drink-driving limit. Part of the evidence we received want good government that brings decisions closer to was a strong representation from the police that we them, so I welcome the principle of the Bill. I particularly should not have a different drink-driving limit in different welcome the strengthening of the Scottish Parliament’s parts of the United Kingdom. I am not against the fiscal powers. power’s being devolved, but want to put it on the record that I would not wish the consequence of that devolution Anas Sarwar: Is it not alarming, given the Scottish of power to be a marked difference in the Scottish and National party’s amendment, that those Members will English drink-driving limits. That might cause some be voting against the new powers for Scotland? Does practical problems in border constituencies such as that that not show that they are now the conservatives in represented by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle Scotland, supporting the status quo over new powers (John Stevenson), who is no longer in his place. for the Scottish Parliament? 517 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 518
Mrs McGuire: I do not wish to interpret the SNP’s power to create new taxes, subject to the approval of tactics, but it is certainly bizarre that their amendment both the Scottish and UK Parliaments, which I think is says that the “Bill as a whole” is “unacceptable”, given a responsible way forward. The assessment of those that the mover of the amendment, the hon. Member for new taxes, however, must be open and transparent so Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), tried to that it does not feed into the arguments of the conspiracy appear consensual on some of the areas on which there theorists who will interpret anything less as an attempt is agreement. I do not know which part of the brain was to undermine Scotland. However, the Scottish Parliament not working when the amendment was tabled, but it should recognise, as I am sure it will, that any proposed definitely calls on the House to vote against something new tax must be assessed according to its potential that SNP Members agree with in some way. That is a impact on economic incentives in Scotland. question for them to answer, but I am delighted that I want to raise one area of concern on the new my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central Scottish rate proposals. The implementation and impact (Anas Sarwar) has raised it. of that power must be thoroughly tested and developed, The Bill, like the Scotland Act 1998, was developed and not only with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, as a result of consensus, as the right hon. Member for important though that is. I know that the qualification Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) has highlighted. The engagement for liability of the Scottish rate will be the same as or of civic society, communities and individuals, as well as similar to those already set out in the Scotland Act of political parties, is the hallmark of the legislation—as 1998. Although we can easily see the implications for it was of its 1998 predecessor. In terms of political the basic and higher rate taxes, people in Scotland must party consensus, there have been positive developments also have clear information on the impact on their tax over the years. As the hon. Member for Epping Forest liability of pension contributions, to which the hon. has clearly shown, the Conservative party in Scotland Member for Milton Keynes South referred, and any and across the UK boycotted the Scottish Constitutional unearned income, such as dividend receipts and bank Convention in the early 1990s, campaigned for a no interest. That sounds as though it concerns only a small vote in the 1997 referendum and voted against the first group of people, but many people in Scotland earn Bill when it came through Parliament. However, it is interest through bank accounts and from dividends. I now working in partnership with other political parties ask the Minister, both today and throughout the Bill’s that see the strength of the Union as key to the future of scrutiny, to consider how the current regime of tax our country. I always welcome the sinners that repenteth. credits on dividends, for example, will be managed if Some things never change, though. The SNP stood there are different tax rates in different parts of the UK. apart from the consensus-building up to 1998 and boycotted What discussions have there been about the implications the Calman commission for reasons that I cannot of variable tax? What will happen if someone uses an understand and have not heard properly explained. I address for their unearned income, such as a bank think the SNP amendment is somewhat churlish and based in London, Cardiff, Halifax or wherever, that is flies in the face of all the views that have been expressed different from that used for their individual taxation by the Scottish people through elections and consensus. north of the border? I know that those problems are not If the SNP wants an independent Scotland, its first aim insurmountable. There might be issues of detail, but must be to prove its case to the Scottish people. frankly, we want the system to be robust and watertight from the beginning, otherwise the Bill will be nothing Fiona O’Donnell: As the SNP has fallen silent, will other than a job creation scheme for accountants—having my right hon. Friend tell us why she thinks the party been married to an accountant for 39 years, I have no bottled it when offered the chance of a referendum by problem with that in principle. The Secretary of State, Labour in Holyrood? given his previous career as an accountant, will have some knowledge of how accountants can take a piece of legislation, dissect it and then work their way around it. Mrs McGuire: I gave up many years ago trying to get I hope that those issues can be solved properly so that into the political mind of the SNP and I do not know if we can ensure a robust system. I want to revisit some of those early nightmares I had in trying to understand it. The Bill certainly has some common-sense adjustments to the devolution settlement, such as the licensing of I want to concentrate on the additional fiscal powers. controlled substances and appointments to the BBC Some of us in the House are old enough to remember Trust, and there are other changes that are welcome in the 1978 proposals of the then Labour Government, principle. However, greater discussion and clarification one weakness of which was that they contained no will be needed as the Bill goes through the House. For taxation powers—no variation to what was then called example, the power to set drink-driving limits, which the Scottish Assembly was to be allowed. To an extent, has been mentioned by several hon. Members, should that lesson was learned when the 1998 legislation was be considered. Different limits north and south of the introduced. The plus or minus 3% provision was intended border could cause confusion. Again, that is an issue to deal with the flaw in the earlier legislation, which of not of principle, but of clarity. If we are to devolve course failed the somewhat artificial 40% referendum power on the licensing system for air weapons, we will test. The discussion around Calman recognised that the undoubtedly need a clearer definition of what constitutes time was right to build on the 1998 Act and devolve an air weapon than that currently specified in the Firearms more responsibility for revenue raising to the Scottish Act 1968. I assume that the Secretary of State will be Parliament. having discussions with ministerial colleagues in the In addition, the Bill gives us a package of other Home Office to ensure that the power that is being changes that will enhance the Scottish Parliament’s handed over will take account of how technology has fiscal responsibility, including new borrowing powers, a changed in the intervening years in the manufacture of stamp duty land tax, a landfill tax and, of course, the air weapons. 519 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 520
Let me deal briefly with some of the attacks that have money. The important issue, which is not directly in the been made on the Bill, which are crystallised in the SNP Bill but an unintended consequence of it, however, is amendment. It has been criticised for not giving meaningful the baseline for that allocation, the current Barnett economic powers, and yet the Scottish Parliament will settlement. The Barnett formula is not a subject for now be able to raise significantly more income as a today’s debate, but others have spoken about it, and I result. In addition, there will be additional borrowing shall put in my tuppence-worth. powers of up to £3 billion. When there is a cyclical fall The formula has been going for 35 years, and the in tax receipts, which we might see during a recession, most recent review of it was last year by the Lords there are powers to manage that problem. Barnett Formula Committee, which produced an excellent I know that the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart report that received a poor response from the then Hosie) is, or appears to be, an expert on all things fiscal, Government. People accept that the formula no longer but, although he might be able to identify some of the represents a needs basis for the allocation of moneys. problems, his analysis and conclusions are sometimes The Calman report accepted that point, too, but the questionable. I advise him that not all of us agree with reason why we persevere with the formula is inertia. In his suggested outcomes. Of course, we know that all the response to the Lords Committee, it was accepted that is code for fiscal autonomy, which in turn is camouflage that the formula was straightforward, but there are two for independence. I have no problem engaging with that reasons why it provides the wrong result. First, there argument, but we have to be realistic and admit that has been no attempt to make any changes based on that is what the debate is all about: it is a debate for relative population movement over the past 35 years those who want to see the United Kingdom broken up between the three countries in the Union which are and those of us who want to see it strengthened through most affected, Wales, England and Scotland. The result, the greater devolution of powers. as Holtham stated, is that the settlement for Scotland is I am delighted to support the Bill, and I resent the about £4 billion more than it would be if it was worked almost trivialisation of some of its elements. The Scotland out on a needs basis. Act 1998 was one of the most complicated pieces of How does that relate to the Bill? The baseline will use legislation ever to go through this House. It had to that higher amount to set income tax, and to flex it up unpick legislation dating back over 300 years, since the and down. In consequence, it will be harder to change union of Parliaments, so it was not straightforward. the Barnett formula in future, because it will be linked Stage hypnotists might not have been at the top of the directly to the level of income tax in Scotland in a way political agenda, but legislation on stage hypnotists had that it is not at the moment. From a political point of to be dealt with as part of the Act. Indeed, given the view, it would be hard for people to accept that the UK number of hours we spent on it, I wonder how we did Government, while making a fairer allocation, were not realise that we had given Scotland power over forcing up income tax in Scotland. Antarctica. I do not quite know how that slipped through in all those hours, but we should not trivialise the A second unintended consequence of the current detailed work that had to be done to present that Act baseline is that Scotland will for ever have a larger and to deliver a Scottish Parliament, or suggest that it public sector in its economy than in England. I say to somehow undermines the Scottish people’s right to colleagues on the Government Benches, of whom there autonomy through devolution. are not many, that it is wrong for us to go on about Scotland having to rebalance its economy towards the Issues of detail and clarification will undoubtedly private sector and away from the public sector if we need to be debated in the Chamber over the next few approve a formula that makes it arithmetically impossible weeks, but the Bill is a natural progression along the for that to happen. road that we set down in 1998, and if Donald is up there on his cloud, he will definitely see that it is part of the process, and that 1998 was not just an event. Mrs Laing: Does my hon. Friend accept the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) that the Barnett formula works in 3.42 pm the way it does not just because Scotland is Scotland, David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Before I get but because Scotland has certain features, such as into my remarks, may I apologise to the House for three areas of deprivation in its inner cities and very rural things? First, it is not my birthday; secondly, I have areas where transport costs are enormous, that mean not written a book; and thirdly, I think I am the first that it deserves greater spending in certain areas? Such speaker in the debate not to have a Scottish accent. I do areas are also found in certain parts of England and have a Scottish name, however, so I shall do my best Wales. with that. I really have only one point to make about the Bill to David Mowat: I thank my hon. Friend for that those on the Government Front Bench. Overall, however, intervention. She made two points, the first of which it is a good Bill that takes what Calman recommended was about sparsity. Scotland is more spread out than and implements it sensibly. Indeed, a whole set of the rest of the UK. Page 18 of the Holtham report takes well-made recommendations will be introduced. The that sparsity into account. The Scottish national health principal part of the Bill, as others have said, relates to service has to take sparsity into account in the allocation fiscal autonomy, the change in the level of the block of money. Parts of Scotland are very spread out, such grant and the compensatory change to income tax. The as the highlands and islands, Orkney and the Hebrides. theory behind it is absolutely spot on, because it is right The Scottish NHS adjustment in respect of that, which that Scotland is given an incentive to nurture its own tax was validated by the Holtham formula, was 1.5%. We base and to become accountable for how it spends that are dealing with a figure of 20%. 521 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 522
[David Mowat] about changing the baseline. I believe that the Government have opened up the possibility of that in future, but we The second point that my hon. Friend made was must be careful to point out that the Barnett formula about deprivation. There are areas of deprivation all deals only with year-on-year changes. over the country. That is why it is so important that the formula is based on need. There can be no argument David Mowat: I thank my hon. Friend, but I have two about that. points in response. First, the Government have said that they will not review the formula in the lifetime of this Anas Sarwar: When discussing the rights and wrongs Parliament. Secondly, the outcome allocation that is of the Barnett formula, would it not be sensible to consequent on what we call the Barnett formula takes compare the averages for Scotland and Wales to different into account two things—the spending brought forward regions of England, because the north of England and the Barnett consequentials. The first of those is not receives almost the same amount per head as Scotland? adjusted for population, and the second is. Since I have nearly got to the end of my remarks, I David Mowat: Paradoxically, the part of England will not take any more interventions on this subject, that receives the most per head is London. but—
Pete Wishart: The hon. Gentleman said that London Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op) secures the most identified public spending—that is rose— before we get into unidentified public spending. I am grateful to him because he has been very consistent in David Mowat: Maybe one more. his view, which is a valid view held by Conservative Back Benchers, that Scotland’s budget should just be Gemma Doyle: I am very grateful. Is the hon. Gentleman cut. Those on the Government Front Bench, with Labour aware that the proposals to which he refers, which he support, want to cut Scotland’s budget through the seems to support, could actually lead to a £4.5 billion financial measures in the Bill. The hon. Gentleman and cut in the amount of money spent on Scotland? Is that I can surely agree that the way to resolve this is to give what he proposes, and does he want to see it happen? Scotland full financial autonomy on these issues—he would benefit and I would benefit. Surely that is the David Mowat: What I propose is that the allocation is right way forward. done on a needs basis that is fair to the constituents that I represent as well as to hers. David Mowat: What I think we would agree about—I think this has been the consensus—is that we should David Mundell: I very much respect what my hon. have a needs-based formula. What possible objection Friend says. He took part in a Westminster Hall debate could anybody have to a formula based on need? Members on the issue, and I am sure the Chancellor and other have mentioned adjustment for deprivation, and fine, colleagues are listening to him. We need to be clear, let us go with that, but the difficulty that we have got though, about whether he is arguing for a needs-based into is that we have never adjusted the Barnett formula assessment across the whole UK. The hon. Member for for population change. Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) drew attention to the fact that there are significant differentials within England. Iain Stewart: I must correct my hon. Friend. The The difference between the highest and lowest per capita Barnett formula has been adjusted in the past to take public spending in England is £2,537, which is much account of population changes. He is quite correct to greater than the difference between the Scottish and suggest that it was not adjusted for the first 15 or English average. We need to be clear about whether my 16 years, which led to a more generous settlement year hon. Friend and those who make the same argument on year than a strict population count would have want a change in spending within England, or just allowed, but I believe that it was Michael Portillo, when between the constituent parts of the UK. he was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who introduced a mechanism by which the percentage by which Barnett David Mowat: The difference that we are really talking changes each year would be directly related to Scotland’s about today is the one between the constituent parts of share of the UK population. the UK, but I have no difficulty with also applying that to the constituent parts of England. As I said, a needs-based David Mowat: My hon. Friend is right to say that the formula is fair. Barnett consequentials each year take the correct, current If my constituency of Warrington South, which has relative population into account. However, the formula areas of great deprivation and some better-off areas, does not do that to the body of spending that is adjusted were in Scotland, the average constituent would receive by those consequentials. He will find that very clearly in £900 more. That is not fair—I get a considerable postbag the reports of the House of Lords Select Committee about it. Today’s debate is not on the Barnett formula, and the Holtham commission. but unless we address the matter at some point, it will become a tension in the Union from the other direction. Iain Stewart: One of my bugbears in this debate is We need to be cognisant of that, and we need to be that when we talk about the Barnett formula, we forget careful. that Barnett does not change the baseline lock, it aggregates the annual changes in UK Departments’ spending and Ann McKechin: The hon. Gentleman mentions basing then adds on a population share percentage and a the determination on needs. In last Wednesday’s relevance factor percentage. My hon. Friend’s point is Adjournment debate, to which the Under-Secretary 523 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 524 referred, there was some discussion about the system in We still have to grow up when it comes to Scottish Australia. It is based on needs, and there is a commission politics, as can be seen by some of the bunfights between that makes a judgment. There is frequent argument the party that will remain nameless—I know that its between the federal states about the definition of needs, Members count the number of the times that it is and some commentators are now saying that they want named—and Labour. It should not be a bunfight; we to move back to a per capita formula, just like the should think of the people of Scotland and try to do Barnett formula. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that what is best for the nation. stability might be a better prize? The Bill goes a way along that road. Everything in it is not necessarily right, and some things that are not in David Mowat: I do not agree that stability is a better it should be. Let me concentrate on those for a moment. prize if it is based on something that is wrong. I agree The voting system for the Scottish Parliament is wrong. that it is difficult to compute need, but that is no reason I particularly dislike the top-up of Members, and the not to try. We have let the matter drift. One of the votes of the people of Glasgow, part of which I have the determinants is relative population movement—I repeat honour of representing, are not proportionately counted. that, notwithstanding the comments of my hon. Friend There was a great deal of talk in debates on other the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart); I Bills—they were not consulted on, just like this Bill was guess we can discuss that later in the bar. not consulted on—about how one person’s vote in one I ask the Under-Secretary to table a simple amendment constituency is worth more than someone else’s vote in to the Bill to provide for revising the block grant allocation another. However, the second votes of 45,000 people in to take account of relative need, in the way that the Glasgow area do not count for the top-up list. Not one House of Lords Committee on the Barnett formula and Member is elected by those 45,000 votes, which I believe the Holtham commission recommended last year and is inherently wrong. It is not right to conduct a in previous years. parliamentary election on first past the post and then, just because a party is so successful in gaining seats, for 45,000 votes to be discounted. I expect that 45,000 to be 3.56 pm a lot more come the next election. John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Warrington Pete Wishart: The hon. Gentleman is the epitome of South (David Mowat). I also enjoyed the contribution reason, and his speech differs greatly from some of the of the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain incoherent rants from his colleagues—we are likely to Stewart). I have not read his book and, having listened hear more such rants from the next few speakers. Is to his speech, I do not think that I will buy it. [HON. he really suggesting that we get rid of proportional MEMBERS: “Oh!”] Let us face it, anyone who campaigned representation for the Scottish Parliament? Surely we on a no/yes vote in the referendum for a Scottish cannot go back to the old days of Glasgow council, Parliament meant, “I don’t want a Scottish Parliament, when Labour members gained majorities on vast minorities but give us the money anyway.” I have some problems of support. with the economics of that position and wonder what the hon. Gentleman was thinking of at the time. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Before I am a unionist—with a small “u”. I am also a the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (John member of the Labour party. In the past 10 years, the Robertson) resumes his speech, I should say that he is Labour party has been the Unionist party in the House. now going through things that are not in the Bill. If he We have supported the United Kingdom more than goes on at length on those matters, he is clearly going to other party. Around 2005 to 2010, the then Opposition, make a lengthy speech before he even gets on to measures who now lead the coalition, had an anti-Scottish slant. I that are in the Bill. Will he now direct his comments found it sad that we were treated in such a manner, but towards what is in the Bill? I have noticed that, since they came to power, we do not seem to have the same anti-Scottishness from them. I John Robertson: Thank you for your guidance, am pleased about that, if nothing else. Mr Deputy Speaker; I am hoping to speak to amendments Many hon. Members know that I followed Donald in Committee that might deal with those matters, and to Dewar into the House. I had the pleasure of being his develop that argument and discussion in greater detail. election agent in the 1997 and 1999 elections and of To answer the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire representing him in his constituency while he was away (Pete Wishart), I have never been spoken to so nicely. campaigning in 1998. Those of us who fought hard for He called me reasonable. I have always thought I am a a Scottish Parliament and an excellent vote, particularly reasonable, but sometimes people say that I rant. in Donald Dewar’s constituency, had the reward of It is important for people to have representation. I do getting the Parliament. That is not to say that I agree not believe that voting for a loser to represent me is with everything that has happened. I do not agree with right. I want to vote for a winner, and I believe the hon. Members who said that this is the first time that we person who wins the vote should look after me. That is have revisited the Scotland Act 1998, because we have how I was elected. I like to think that I have done a good done that a couple of times. Yet Donald Dewar said to job. Admittedly, when someone gets over 50% of the me that the Act was not to be played about with. vote, they would say that, but they might not if things Devolution might be a process and a project that will were a bit closer. I still believe that people would like to develop, but the Act should not have been tweaked as vote for a winner and not a loser to be their elected often as it has. I hope that, if we tweak it this time, we representative; sometimes even somebody who comes in will leave it to settle in properly. Ten years is not a long third place will be elected. I hope to put set out that time for a political institution. position in Committee. 525 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 526
[John Robertson] Another aspect of the Bill that needs amendment is the provisions on energy. It is a reserved matter, but if Consensus is important. The SNP has tabled a reasoned we wished to build a nuclear power station in Scotland, amendment, but at the end of the day, SNP Members the present Administration say that they would use the want the same thing that I want: the best for the people planning rules to stop it. By the middle of this decade, whom they represent. However, you have to listen to the we might be short of electricity, so we have to make other side. The right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm decisions now. In fact, we should have decided years Bruce) made a very good point when he said that the ago—my party must take much of the responsibility for fact of the matter is that the Scottish people do not failing to do so—what we should do in relation to agree with the SNP. If 70% or 80% of the Scottish energy, and we cannot have a devolved Administration people do not agree with you, you might be wrong. You with the power to stop developments that are happening should actually listen to that 80% and find out why they everywhere else. Each power station that is built is the disagree with you. You might want to persuade them in result of billions of pounds of investment in jobs and the years to come, but we are not at that stage. To go future jobs after the station has been built. Some 9,000 back to my initial point, we are developing and broadening jobs are created when a new nuclear power station is out what the Scottish Parliament does and trying to built. We should consider having legislation to make make it better. That will not be achieved in one go. such planning issues a reserved matter, with the Secretary of State having the power to put forward reasons why Stewart Hosie: The hon. Gentleman is being such issues should go ahead. unreasonably reasonable. The amendment is not only reasoned, but reasonable, and it specifically fails to seek Dr Whiteford: I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman’s to decline to give the Bill a Second Reading. If he reads constituents would like a nuclear power station in their the amendment carefully, he will quickly appreciate that backyard. we seek to improve those areas in the Bill that we believe are weak, and that we are criticising the exclusion of recommendations by the Calman commission, which John Robertson: The hon. Lady has obviously not was the genesis of the Bill. consulted people in areas where nuclear power stations have been built. They want new stations built, because of the investment that that brings for local infrastructure. John Robertson: The hon. Gentleman sounds very If the lights were about to go out, people in Anniesland reasonable, but I do not believe he is being reasonable, probably would want a new power station. They would [Interruption.] and I shall explain why— Let me explain like any power station allowing us to keep the lights on. why you are not being reasonable. You have put forward We are digressing on to a subject that has nothing to do an amendment that— with the Bill, and I know that you would stop me talking about it if I continued, Mr Deputy Speaker. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I have However, I hope that the hon. Lady gets my point. not put forward any amendment to the Bill. The hon. Gentleman has used the word “you” several times and I Overall, I welcome the Bill. It has some good points. would be grateful if he could speak through the Chair. Fiscal powers have always been a wee bit of a problem. Why is that? Let us have a look: in the mid-1990s, the John Robertson: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Conservative party did away with the two-tier system The “you” is, of course, a Scottish phrase that you have north of the border—we had local government in local misunderstood—[Laughter.] and regional areas. Cities such as Glasgow did very well under the old Strathclyde regional council, but once we The hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) did away with it, the money started to drift away from has put forward an argument that is wrong, because it the centre of where the work was being done. Under the would wreck what we are trying to do today. It would be present incumbent north of the border, business rates much better to table amendments to improve the Bill. I for Glasgow were taken into a central pool and spread hope that the amendment will not be accepted so that over the rest of Scotland, so that, in effect, the business we can carry on—and that is probably what will happen. rates in a city that created wealth and employment for The amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Perth people living outside Glasgow did not pay for anything. and North Perthshire is ill conceived. It is a mistake and Those people came into Glasgow and used all the he should not have tabled it. facilities, roads and everything else that the city council now had to pay for. I cannot remember the exact figures Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): My hon. Friend for now, but of £180 million collected in business rates, is making a powerful argument about the amendment Glasgow used to get back £100 million. tabled by the Scottish nationalists. The amendment concludes that the Bill is considered In effect, Glasgow—the biggest area for employment— was taking £80 million out of its city centre and giving “as a whole to be unacceptable.” it to the rest of Scotland. I believe that that was done The amendment therefore suggests that the Scottish out of political expediency. It was agreed before the last nationalists do not want the Bill to go forward. election that the money would be returned to Glasgow, but we have since seen even more attacks on the city John Robertson: My hon. Friend makes my point. from the Scottish Government. If we are to go down the That is why the amendment was a mistake, and I think fiscal road, we have to consider very carefully the political that the Scottish nationalists did not really mean to go stance, the areas where the money should go and the down that road. If they put that in deliberately, I am areas of high deprivation. For deprivation, Glasgow wrong and will admit as much. We have to fight them rates higher than any other city in the United Kingdom. on that point. Six of Glasgow’s constituencies—in those days, it had 527 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 528 nine—used to be among the top 10 worst in the UK, (Mr Murphy), along with those Members from other and certainly plenty of its now seven constituencies are parties who took part in the Calman process and the still among them. leaders of the parties in Scotland. A great deal of Yes, we do need help, and we do need money. What thanks for the impetus behind the Bill, as for the original we do not need is money disappearing. The fiscal powers Scotland Bill, should go to Wendy Alexander. It is must be used very carefully to ensure that the money important that we should thank her from the Labour taken in goes to the areas that need it. The hon. Member Benches in this debate for her great efforts on devolution. for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) talked about The key principle of the constitutional reforms that how we could do that. If the Scottish Government are were adopted by the previous Government was cross-party to have such powers, however, I want to be able to know support. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow where the money is going. Why am I saying this? There North stated, there is a real contrast between the great has to be an audit trail if the UK Government are to cross-party consensus that has been achieved in the give to the Scottish Parliament money and the means to preparation and discussion of this Bill, and some of the collect taxes. For example, if this Parliament is to give frankly gerrymandered changes that we have seen in the Scottish Parliament Barnett formula increases—my the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston Bill and the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. I hope that and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) mentioned this earlier—of right hon. and hon. Members on the Government Benches about £34 million for disabled children, but that money will recognise that when they bring forward further does not go there, I want the ability to ask where it constitutional legislation in this Session, such as the went. If I were told, “It just went into the budget, and House of Lords Reform Bill. we do not know exactly how it was spent,” that would This Bill is good for Scotland, and that is why Labour be fine, as I could use it for political purposes. However, Members will support it. As paragraph 2.34 of the I want to know where the money is, and I want the Calman report states: House to be able to audit every penny that comes from the UK taxpayer. “the Scottish Parliament controls 60% of identifiable public spending in Scotland,” Mr Weir: Is the hon. Gentleman seriously suggesting but is directly responsible for that the Scottish Government can only spend money “only 10% of the taxation levied in Scotland.” coming from the block grant on whatever this place If the Bill is passed, thankfully that will change. The Bill determines? In effect, does he want to export changes in will increase the level of taxes levied in Scotland to 35%, this place, for example in the NHS, into the Scottish which is comparable to the level in devolved legislatures system? That is ridiculous. in Belgium, Italy, Spain and Australia. Added to that, the Bill provides for welcome revenue and capital borrowing John Robertson: What I think is ridiculous is £34 million powers, which will extend borrowing from £500 million not going to disabled children. a year, under the Scotland Act 1998, to £2.2 billion. That will release proceeds for much needed capital Mr Weir: It did. projects in Scotland, such as a Glasgow airport rail link—a matter on which I have spoken a great deal in John Robertson: Well, I think that the money went to the past and on which I will continue to speak—and trying to support a Scottish Parliament and a Scottish will raise the opportunity for investment in high-speed Government who were trying to keep council payments rail track between the major cities of Scotland and the down, and that people were getting bought off with it. I Scottish border. That will be a helpful economic lever do not believe that one thought was given about a for Scotland. Added to that, the detail of the tax powers disabled child going short or a home not getting the will see a variation of plus or minus 10% from 2016, and money it needs. I take that view, and I am entitled to my the welcome devolution of stamp duty land tax and opinion. I believe that we have to go ahead with this. landfill tax. I have ranted on long enough. I support the Bill. I believe that scrutiny has to happen, and that there are I welcome the fact that income tax is the principal areas where we can make it better. I also believe that lever being used to give the Scottish Parliament extra there are probably areas where we are thinking about fiscal powers. Giving evidence to the Scottish Parliament making things better where we may have to reign in, but on 18 January, Sir Kenneth Calman set out an important the most important thing is that the Bill proceeds and principle for where our economy should be going: that the Committee looks at it even more closely. “If you change the financial levers, that in itself will not change anything; what you…need is to have in place the right policies.” 4.15 pm That is right. Speaking about those levers, Professor Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): It is a François Vaillancourt of Montreal university, also giving pleasure to follow my near parliamentary neighbour, evidence on 18 January, said: my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North West “I believe that the instrument that has been chosen, personal (John Robertson). Before I address the substance of the income tax, is the best one for the purpose. Corporate income tax Bill, let me place on record my thanks for the great work is difficult to administer at a personal level, because of tax done by the previous Government. In particular, I shifting between various jurisdictions…Personal income tax allows thank my hon. Friends the Members for Rutherglen people to see a relationship between what they pay and what they and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex)—I thank him in get, and it is linked to the responsibilities of the Scottish Parliament, the capacity in which he assisted that Government— such as education, social services, health, long-term care and so and for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin), and my forth. It is, therefore, an appropriate tool.” right hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire I agree. 529 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 530
[Mr William Bain] hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), I have current responsibilities as a What we have also seen in the last two weeks is a real Member of the Scottish Parliament. We are still trying weakening of the argument for fiscal independence as to juggle some of those responsibilities, so I hope I can propounded by some Scottish National party Members. be forgiven by my colleagues, friends and opponents on Professor Muscatelli, whom I believe my hon. Friend these Benches. I obviously do not have to apologise to the Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) has already too many of my hon. Friends—we have only a valiant referred to, makes it clear that the Bill does not seek to crowd left. adopt some of the more volatile taxes, such as corporation I am in a privileged position as I have the honour of tax and other taxes that would inject more risk into the representing the people of Glasgow East in this august Parliament’s revenues. He expressed the view at Holyrood institution that has such great traditions, but I can also on 18 January: participate in this debate with the benefit of my experience “Income tax has less impact in terms of tax spillover or tax as a Member of the Scottish Parliament for 12 years, competition, so it is the obvious place to start.” since its inception. This is a significant debate, on which Again, this is someone who speaks with real expertise, we will all look back in years to come, as we are at a key so the House would do well to take note of his views. stage in the devolutionary process. The Scottish Parliament Some issues will have to be scrutinised closely as the is firmly established in the governance of Scotland and Bill progresses, particularly if it receives Second Reading has addressed the fundamental democratic deficit that and proceeds into Committee. It will be important to generations of Scots felt. Many of us campaigned long probe the precise detail of the definition of “a Scottish and hard for the establishment of a Scottish Parliament, taxpayer” and to deal with some issues that my hon. and are proud of many of its achievements, as it empowered Friends and Government Members raised earlier. us to address problems and galvanise responses to meet It is important to emphasise the issue of having challenges, within the framework and partnership of proper economic forecasting in Scotland. Given the the United Kingdom. Perhaps we are in a position frankly lamentable performance we have seen from the where we get the best of both worlds. Scottish Government and their ill-starred cast of economic My experience is that the Scottish Parliament has, as advisers put together by the First Minister, we need a the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) proper and robust system for forecasting growth and said, acted within the mainstream of Scottish opinion. the impact of increases or reductions in income tax that The Scottish people have strongly supported the Scottish the Bill, if enacted, will permit. I was impressed by the Parliament, which has kept their faith as it has developed. idea set out by the Scottish Council for Development In some ways, its operation is in the character of Scotland. and Industry when I went to meet it in central Glasgow We criticise the Parliament and keep it on its toes, and last week. It recommended the establishment of a Scottish many of its Members have faced criticism, but the office for budget responsibility—a devolved office that Scottish people would never tolerate its abolition and would examine the effect of devolved Government policies would wish to protect it. on growth and would be able properly to forecast and The Scottish Parliament has not been without its stress test the impact of varying income tax, up or controversies and weaknesses, which we hope to address down, which I think is an idea with many attractions. I through the Bill, but it has had notable successes. I am hope the House will be able to explore it further in pleased that this august Chamber has also learned from Committee. the Scottish Parliament, which led the way on the As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North smoking ban and on free public transport. Scotland has West mentioned, it is important for the Scottish Parliament what is called the most progressive legislation on to make the most of the totality of powers it has from homelessness. With the housing stock transfer, in which the Scotland Act 1998, which it will still have if the Bill I was particularly involved, we managed to develop the is passed. That must mean a real emphasis on growth. means to have perhaps the highest level of housing It is true that the income tax-varying power in itself investment, in the needier parts of Scotland, that has will not necessarily produce additional growth, but it ever been achieved. That speaks to one of the great will be a tool, allied with investment in capital projects successes of the Parliament, which is the focus on the and skills and with diversifying the Scottish economy experience of Scottish people: to be hard-nosed and by providing more manufacturing and more help for hard-edged; to focus always on the Scottish people’s construction, which the stamp duty tax might afford. interests; not to allow ourselves to be diverted into All these are important if we are to avoid seeing the gap eccentric political debate; and always to keep the mainstream in employment and growth in Scotland widen in comparison of Scottish interests at the forefront of our minds. I with the UK as a whole over the last couple of years. hope that the Scotland Bill will allow that to continue. This is a good Bill, but by no means a perfect Bill. We I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for shall scrutinise it closely if it reaches Committee, but it Kilmarnock and Loudoun, who shares my privileged has the support of my constituents and it will have the position, has also often been asked to draw parallels support of all the key political parties that are in favour between the experience at Westminster and in the Scottish of a decent and decentralised system of government Parliament. Although I would not want to digress, I within the United Kingdom. make two comments about that. In the early days of the Scottish Parliament, the worst thing that we could do, 4.24 pm and that we would be chastised for—I am sure that the Under-Secretary, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab): I apologise Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), would agree— for not being able to stay to hear the concluding remarks was to emulate Westminster. If we behaved in any way today. This is explained by the fact that, along with my that was comparable to Westminster, we were criticised 531 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 532 enormously. We saw ourselves as a more consensual, Scotland. She met the Morton family, and worked transparent and accessible Parliament. I would argue closely with them to see what could be done. We appreciate that the high number of women in the Parliament that there is no easy solution, and that simply banning helped to establish that, although I am less on the ban something does not mean that the problem will go consensual end of the spectrum than some others, such away. I do not necessarily want to cause difficulties to as perhaps my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock any sporting communities in Scotland, and I realise that and Loudoun. we must test the legislation as we go through it in order I am struck by my experience in this place, however, to ensure that it is proportionate. However, I plead with and I think that the Scottish Parliament now does need the Minister to bear in mind the experience of the Morton to learn from Westminster’s much more sophisticated family, to bear in mind the fact that 11,000 people mechanisms for ensuring that Government, as opposed signed the petition they delivered, and to understand to Parliament, are held to account. The Bill begins to the basic, essential, human emotion involved. address that. This Parliament’s treatment of its authority That airgun was not the most dangerous kind available, and reach is also much more thorough than that of the and it was a kind that is easily available. However, Scottish Parliament. That might be explained to some although it was not particularly dangerous in itself, in extent by the Scottish Parliament’s youth, but the time the wrong hands it caused terrible tragedy. We must do is right to consider those big issues. The Scotland Bill all that we can to protect people from the worst excesses allows us to do some of that. caused by the use of such guns. According to international research and assessment, The other key aspect of the Mortons’ experience was one of the strongest features of the Scottish Parliament that they saw the Scottish Parliament as the place to go is its Committee system. That system allows people to protect their family. That was right and understandable, to be interrogated about legislation and research to be because at the time crime and justice were the subject of consulted. It is based on the principles of evidence, a huge debate in Scotland, led by my hon. Friend the engagement and analysis, and serves as a model in that Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun. I think that we regard. The Calman commission could be said to have too should have that debate, and I plead with the copied that system, and to have done so very effectively. Minister to allow it to take place. Evidence-led policy development must be centre stage. In conclusion, the Bill is a key stage in the development Like others, I thank and congratulate those who of devolution in Scotland, and I believe that it speaks to served on the commission. They devoted time to taking the majority view of Scottish opinion. We perhaps need stock of where we are in Scotland, and to outline an to test some of the powers more thoroughly to ensure agenda for taking Scotland forward. I hope that, as we that they properly address the economic interests of examine their conclusions and the extent to which they Scotland, but I emphasise again that on some of the have been incorporated in the Bill, we will learn from a more significant human experiences we have within our process that managed to bring the broader body politic grasp the powers to act to address things that matter into the detail of some of the commission’s discussions, fundamentally to Scots. I hope that we take the opportunity because I think it can enhance democracy considerably. to do so. One of the principles of such a process is that it is cross-party. As those who are familiar with Scottish 4.35 pm debate will know, that is not easy to achieve in Scotland, as the current operations of the Scottish Parliament Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- illustrate. The Scottish Government rarely command a op): I am particularly pleased to have the opportunity majority vote in the Parliament: education motions, for to speak in this debate. As the hon. Member for Epping example, are regularly defeated, and the Government Forest (Mrs Laing) said, this is Burns week, which is a pay no attention. I think that that is very serious, but it week when people across the world celebrate their Scottish contrasts starkly with the majority support for Calman’s roots. I always enjoy this time of year because people work, which is highly significant. are asking me for advice on how to pronounce particular I recognise the work that the Government have done Scots words, rather than gently—or perhaps not so in the Bill in relation to borrowing powers and financial gently—mocking my native Ayrshire accent. Some of accountability, which will advance the Scotland debate my Scottish Parliament staff have found the transition significantly. However, I want to draw attention to a to Westminster slightly more difficult. At one point, my very important issue that is particularly relevant to my diary secretary had to explain what was meant by the constituency. As many Members will know, it was the fact that my diary was “stappit” and I was therefore death of a very young child that triggered—if the unable to make a particular event. For the benefit of the House will forgive the expression—the debate in Scotland Hansard reporters and any translators, I should say that about the use of airguns. A young boy, Andrew Morton, “stappit” simply means very full. who was only two years old, was shot dead in my In the past week, the new Burns museum opened in constituency with an airgun. I pay tribute to the Morton Alloway, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the family, who have campaigned for many years. They Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne), have lived with terrible tragedy, but ,with great dignity, and that superb new venue hosted the Burns humanitarian have managed to pull themselves together and argue the award ceremony, with Linda Norgrove being a very case for the banning of airguns. worthy posthumous winner. With due deference to my I have listened carefully to what many people have hon. Friends the Members for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock said about the difficulties of legislating on such matters. and for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown), we Mauchline Let me take this opportunity to thank my hon. Friend residents are fond of saying that although Robert Burns the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, who at the was born in Alloway and died in Dumfries, he lived in time of that terrible death was Minister for Justice in our village. It was therefore a pleasure to join the 533 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 534
[Cathy Jamieson] enough to be part of that day will forever feel that we were part of the history of Scotland. So quick and Mauchline Burns club to lay a wreath at the Burns seamless were the transfer of powers and their incorporation national memorial in Mauchline on Burns day this into Scottish life that the enormity of the development week. and the significance of the change in a relatively short I reassure you that I am not about to continue a time might not always be acknowledged in the manner treatise on Robert Burns, Mr Deputy Speaker, as there that it should be. will be other opportunities for that. However, the references Notwithstanding the controversy over the Parliament to him are relevant, because Burns was intensely concerned building, my right hon. Friend the Under-Secretary—I about Scotland and the Scottish people and, despite will call him my right hon. Friend in recognition of the what some SNP Members might claim, not from a days that we spent in the Scottish Parliament—will narrow nationalist perspective. Burns was an internationalist recall that some of the other debates in those early days who looked beyond geographical boundaries and got to were passionate and had a real energy and enthusiasm the heart of humanity, and that is very much the spirit for the change that was taking place. That was due in no of Scotland today. We are all proud to be Scots and we small part to the work of the Scottish Constitutional will be passionately patriotic at football and on the full Convention over almost two decades, as was acknowledged range of other areas, but we all know that Scots have by the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce). made a much wider contribution to the world than The convention was established in 1989 and consisted simply looking after our own backyard. The vast majority of representatives of civic Scotland and of most of the of working-class Scots certainly know that we have political parties. It drew up a detailed blueprint for more in common with our neighbours who live south of devolution and outlined the proposals for the directly the border in similar communities than divides us. elected Scottish Parliament, crucially with the legislative So when we take forward the debate on the Scotland powers that were finally achieved. That also formed the Bill we must focus on what we can deliver for people in basis for the further proposals that were introduced by Scotland; this cannot simply be an academic exercise the UK Government in 1997. that bears no relation to the lives of the people who I am proud to associate myself with the achievements send us here to represent their views. I am proud to have of the Scottish Parliament over the past decade. As a represented the Scottish Parliament constituency of Parliament, we set out to change Scotland for the Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley for more than better. A substantial body of work was undertaken, 10 years, and I will continue to represent it for the next starting with the abolition of a millennium of feudal 54 days as I count them down. I hope that, rather than tenure, with communities being given the right to buy that simply being a matter for the public record, it and manage the land on which they lived and worked. might help to offer a distinct perspective to the matter This was symbolic as well as practical. We also ensured in hand, as was the case with my hon. Friend the that our elderly people could live with dignity and Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran). respect by introducing free personal care. We led on As a number of hon. Members have said, the Bill is public well-being in the UK by introducing the smoking broadly based on the Calman commission report, and I, ban in public places, which represented a step change in too, wish to put on record my appreciation for what was the way we dealt with health issues in Scotland. a thorough and robust process involving a broad section The Scottish Parliament also introduced an of Scottish civil society. Sir Kenneth Calman has produced unprecedented programme of school and hospital building, a significant body of work in which all those associated ensuring that our children no longer had to be taught in with it can take pride. I am in broad agreement with the substandard buildings and that our sick would no longer aims of the Bill—perhaps people will say that that is no be abandoned to Victorian conditions in hospitals. We surprise—and I will be supporting it. However, as I abolished up-front tuition fees and introduced bursaries shall set out, I believe that some aspects of it should for the less well-off students, which resulted in more be thoroughly and robustly examined, not least by the young people going on to further education in Scotland Select Committee on Scottish Affairs, and scrutinised in than ever before. We also introduced a ban on fox this Chamber. hunting. I was particularly pleased with the establishment In the foreword to the White Paper on devolution, of a Children’s Commissioner for Scotland, for which I Donald Dewar wrote: had campaigned for about 10 years before I even thought “The Government’s aim is a fair and just settlement for Scotland of becoming a full-time politician. The repeal of section 28 within the framework of the United Kingdom—a settlement was controversial at the time, but now it is completely which will be good both for Scotland and the United Kingdom. accepted as having been the right thing to do in the The Scottish Parliament will strengthen democratic control and pursuit of equality. It was a Parliament that challenged make government more accountable to the people of Scotland.” Scotland to think about its future. It tried to engage That was the basis of the Bill that fundamentally altered every Scot in the challenges that we faced, and it led the structure of power in the United Kingdom. public debate in civil society. It is a Parliament that On 11 September 1997, just over five months after continues to ensure that there is a focus on protecting Labour came to power, 74% of Scots voted in favour of the most vulnerable, and it has made a real difference to the establishment of a Scottish Parliament. On 1 July the lives of everyone in Scotland. 1999, the Scottish Parliament was officially convened. The Calman commission came along at the right That date marked the transfer of powers and devolved time, however. It published its findings after just a matters to Scottish Ministers, and it was a time of decade of the devolution settlement, and that seems an immense pride for the vast majority of the Scottish appropriate length of time after which to offer an initial people. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow assessment of how the Parliament has worked, as well East has observed, those of us who were fortunate as how we need to move on. Since 1999, the devolution 535 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 536 settlement has remained relatively static, but I think have heard criticisms of that today as well as some that that was right at the time, as it allowed things to attempted reassurances. A critical point that we must bed in and allowed the Parliament to take shape. Some reach in Committee will involve ensuring that we receive minor changes were made. The Scottish Parliament reassurances about how that will work as well as assurances (Constituencies) Act 2004 retained the current level of that it will not cause further problems or lead to unintended representation at 129 MSPs. That was done in recognition consequences, as has been suggested in Scotland. of the youth of the Parliament as well as the range of Borrowing powers will also be introduced, another work that it was undertaking at the time. We have heard move that I broadly support. We have heard that from other examples of minor tweaks, not least the Railways 2015, Ministers will be allowed to borrow up to 10% of Act 2005—perhaps not so minor a tweak—which allowed the Scottish budget in any one year subject to an overall Scottish Ministers to prepare a strategy for carrying out limit on capital borrowing of £2.2 billion. In principle, their functions in relation to railways and railway services. that will be a positive step that should allow key That was another practical and sensible change. infrastructure projects to proceed as and when the It is now time, of course, to consider the future. The Parliament believes they are necessary. The Bill also task that the Calman commission was set was: provides, however, that the Scottish Parliament will be “To review the provisions of the Scotland Act 1998 in the light able to borrow £500 million through new revenue borrowing of experience and to recommend any changes to the present powers when tax receipts fall short of those anticipated. constitutional arrangements that would enable the Scottish Parliament At first glance, that offers limited flexibility and would to serve the people of Scotland better”— mean that Scotland could be under pressure to make for me, that is the critical point—as well as to spending cuts should a significant shortfall arise. I am sure that that will be considered further as the Bill “improve the financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament”. makes progress. That is what I want to talk about now. As scrutiny takes place, we must ensure that we The Calman analysis of the current settlement, consider the financial calculations and the financial notwithstanding some of the criticisms we have heard implications of Calman in light of our present economic in the Chamber today, is persuasive. England and Scotland circumstances. That is the right and responsible approach have been part of the Union for three centuries but as we continue to scrutinise the Bill. It is not enough Scotland maintains its own identity and now has its simply to say, as SNP Members appear to be saying, own devolved political institutions. Overall, people would that the Bill does not go far enough, so they are going to say the devolution settlement has been shown to work vote against the extra powers it will give. That is a rather pretty well. It has not led to the convoluted or confused odd stance for them to take. I might have misunderstood relationship with other partners in the United Kingdom them, and no doubt they will correct that misapprehension that some people thought it might; nor has it led down a if I have, but it certainly sounded like that to me. one-way street towards independence, as others feared. I hope that one option we will consider during our There are changes that we can and must make in order scrutiny of the Bill is whether the proposal regarding to take forward this work in the future. the Scottish Parliament’s borrowing powers can be brought There is cross-party understanding that the financial forward slightly quicker than the Bill proposes. That is arrangements lack the financial accountability we will up for debate and would be useful to allow the planning want to see as the Parliament progresses. By depending of key infrastructure. It would also have the benefit of wholly on the Westminster grant, the budget bears no assisting what is currently a pretty beleaguered construction relation to economic performance in Scotland. As we sector in Scotland. have seen in recent years with differing strands of opinion Several issues have not been mentioned and I shall in power at Holyrood and Westminster, that can result mention them briefly before concluding. The measures in friction between Governments. The premise of the on licensing the prescription of controlled substances to Calman commission was that election to the Scottish deal with certain addiction problems make sense and I Parliament should be accompanied not just by being am sure we will want to consider that issue in more there to divide up the block grant but by having fiscal detail in Committee. accountability, too. Under the proposed arrangements, As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East has Scotland will become more dependent on and more highlighted, the devolution of the competency over air accountable for the tax revenue it raises. weapons to the Scottish Parliament will potentially As we have heard, the Bill replaces the Scottish allow the introduction of a different approach and variable rate of income tax with a new Scottish rate of licensing system there. She mentioned my time as Scotland’s income tax that will be decided by the Scottish Parliament Justice Minister. In that role, I had discussions with annually and applied consistently to the basic, higher different Home Secretaries—four at the last count—to and additional rates of income tax. The grant from the decide how best to ensure that people in Scotland UK Government will automatically be reduced by 10p were protected from those who would use air weapons in the pound and the Scottish rate will be added to it. In irresponsibly. We agreed that our approach should not principle, I support the proposed measures, but we must be taken forward in an ad hoc way and should not ensure that there is proper and thorough scrutiny of simply be a soundbite solution that would please a few what they will mean as the Bill goes through Parliament. people but would not actually deliver. That is why I am Under the proposals, the UK will retain control of pleased that we will have the opportunity to scrutinise exemptions and reliefs and Scottish tax revenues will be that issue properly and come up with a workable solution. subject to Westminster control. One concern that has As I have said, the financial relationship between the been raised is that when the UK takes decisions such as Scottish Parliament, the people of Scotland and the rest increasing the personal allowance to £9,000 or eliminating of the UK is vital. Let me respond to some of the the 50% top rate, that will affect Scottish revenues. We comments from SNP Members about our scrutiny of 537 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 538
[Cathy Jamieson] Stewart Hosie: It is rather obvious that we are seeking to make the Bill better. In its current form it will not the Bill. I do not recall being given much quarter by work, and I will explain why in a moment. I do not Labour Back Benchers when I was a Labour Minister believe that it will meet even the honourable objectives in the Scottish Government—I have no problem calling that the Government have set out. it that although it is technically called the Scottish Executive—and I am sure that during our debates on David Mundell: I think that the House deserves some this Bill, Labour Members will properly seek to scrutinise clarification from the hon. Gentleman. If the amendment every clause and line of the Bill to ensure that we are that he is promoting does not prevail and the Bill doing the right thing. progresses in essentially the same form, perhaps with We should keep at the forefront of our minds the only some minor amendments, is he saying that his reason why we are doing all this. It is not a dry, party will not accept it? academic exercise only for text books and discussion in learned tomes. It is about making a difference for the Stewart Hosie: I now see what the Minister is asking. people of Scotland whom we represent. We must make I have every confidence that, when we coalesce in the Bill relevant to people because nothing will drive Committee, the common sense of Members from all them away faster from engaging in the process than if parties will lead to a number of successful amendments they believe it is not a Bill for them—that it is only for that will improve the Bill, perhaps by addressing the politicians and will not affect their lives. If that happened, weaknesses in the financial powers, for example, to we would lose a considerable amount because we would which the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun be moving away from the intention of the late Donald alluded. We will wait until the subsequent stages before Dewar, which was to make the Government more deciding on the Bill, which might have been changed accountable to the people of Scotland. substantially by then. There is plenty of public opinion and evidence in Scotland that people want a stronger form of devolution than at present, and they look to us to find the way Cathy Jamieson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? forward. They might not know exactly the chapter and verse—where they want the t’s crossed and the i’s dotted Stewart Hosie: I will take one more intervention in the legislation—but they look to us to take forward before starting line 1 of my speech. the principles and spirit of devolution and to come up with solutions. We have a unique opportunity in this Cathy Jamieson: My understanding was that the hon. Parliament to reshape how devolution works with a Gentleman indicated earlier that he would divide the more comprehensive approach, so I welcome the Bill House on the amendment, the last line of which states and look forward to our continued scrutiny of it as it that the House goes through Parliament. “considers the Bill as a whole to be unacceptable.” 4.54 pm Given the spirit of consensus that appears to be breaking out, will he now consider withdrawing the amendment Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): It is a genuine so that we can move forward on the basis of consensus? pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), who said a number of Stewart Hosie: The arguments in favour of the reasoned things with which I agree entirely. Twice she said that amendment will be made and they will explain, I hope this should not be a dry, academic exercise, the first time with some support, why there are flaws in the Bill. stating that it was not about the powers, but the policies that they are used for. The Bill contains two fundamental fiscal measures: On the Bill’s proposals for enhanced financial powers, first, the reduction in the basic higher and additional with which we agree, I wish to set out in a little detail rates of income tax by 10p, and the setting of a Scottish precisely what we would do with them and why we back rate to compensate for that; and secondly, the availability them. I would also like to clear up a slight misunderstanding: of limited revenue and capital borrowing powers. Revenue we will absolutely not stand in the way of the Bill. The borrowing will fill a part of the gap left when revenue SNP will never stand in the way of additional powers decreases and a limited increase in capital borrowing coming to Scotland. The reason for the reasoned will enhance direct capital investment. amendment, and for the amendments that we will table However, the income tax powers are inadequate and in Committee and beyond, is to strengthen the Bill by include an in-built, long-term deflationary bias in the ironing out some of the flaws and making it better. That Scottish budget. The borrowing powers, particularly is what we should all be doing. Notwithstanding the the revenue powers, are so tightly controlled that they fact that we are only 100 days away from the Scottish are unlikely to be effective in delivering the sensible election, at heart we all want the Bill to be as good as it outcomes that many of us want. It is also worth noting can be. that even the devolution of the income tax, the small stamp duty land tax and the landfill tax means that the David Mundell: I am afraid that I do not understand Scottish Parliament will still have direct control of only the logic of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, because his 15% of the taxes raised in Scotland, with the remaining so-called reasoned amendment suggests that the Bill 85% accruing directly to London. I do not intend to is “unacceptable”. The logic of his argument is that if talk about full fiscal autonomy, which there has been he does not succeed in making the amendment—and he some talk of, but as a comparator we can look to the must accept that he is unlikely to do so—he will be Basque country, which has been mentioned. It controls unable to support the Bill in an unamended form. around 86% of its revenue. 539 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 540
I want to concentrate on the specific problems with more downsides than upsides, because the range of income tax provisions. Receipts are sensitive to changes devolved taxes is limited and, in cash terms, involve in economic circumstances and might fall dramatically almost exclusively income tax. in a downturn, as I will explain later. That presents an The other problem is that the provisions fall foul of instability to the budget in Scotland, because we are not being fully devolved. Income tax rates do not stand talking mainly about income tax and the shortfall that on their own; they must be looked at alongside allowances would not be matched by the Bill’s provision of very and thresholds, neither of which is being devolved. So limited borrowing powers. Growth in income tax revenue the consequence of a significant change, in particular is low when compared with that of total tax revenue, the UK Government’s plan to increase personal allowances and that is obviously deflationary, because only the to £10,000, which in principle is a very good policy, modest growth in income tax will accrue to the Scottish could mean a reduction in funding to Scotland of Parliament, with the higher growth in total tax accruing between £800 million and £1 billion a year. still to London. The figures between 2004-05 and 2008-09, for example, Iain Stewart: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? show that total tax revenue increased by £13.7 billion, but under the proposed plan the Scottish Government, Stewart Hosie: One second. although they control 15% of the tax, will receive only I am sure that such a change will not be allowed to 9% of the increase. That automatically begins to squeeze happen, but UK Governments have announced 17 changes the Scottish budget. Even within income tax, the most to income tax since 2007, and they would have affected significant growth comes from the higher rates, and the proportion of income tax revenue or receipts assigned most of that growth will not be available to Scotland. to the Scottish Government. Those changes included Historically, higher rate taxpayers account for a larger not only the big headline splash on the £10,000 threshold, share of the growth in tax receipts, and therefore the but 16 others, each of which would have affected the majority of the growth in income tax receipts will assignation of receipts to Scotland. accrue directly to Westminster, not to Scotland. We Even if the provisions did not result in a real-terms might, in fact, receive a declining share of Scotland’s cut to the Scottish budget, which I believe they do, and income tax yields, because we are assigned half the even if they did not create an in-built deflationary bias, basic rate, one quarter of the 40% rate and only 20% of which I believe they do, they would still provide an the 50% rate. The impact of that deflationary bias can unstable platform for the Scottish Government, precisely best be demonstrated by assuming that the powers had because of the volatility of income tax receipts in been in place since 1999-2000. Since then, the impact of difficult times. At no time was that clearer than between the shortfall against forecast departmental expenditure 2007-08 and 2009-10, when income tax receipts fell by limits would have represented an accumulative cut of 7.3%. Over those two years, that would have led to a about £8 billion. drop in Scottish revenue in excess of £1 billion, and that is presumably the point at which the revenue-borrowing David Mowat: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s powers are meant to kick in and help. I shall take the point about a deflationary bias vis-à-vis the total tax hon. Gentleman’s intervention now, because the next take, but, in comparing the proposal before us with the part of my speech is complicated. status quo, what is relevant is the increase in income tax versus the increase in public spending. That is the basis Iain Stewart: I want to return to the hon. Gentleman’s on which the current Barnett allocation works, and on point about changes to income tax allowances and that basis Scotland is likely to do better in the short other changes to the UK rates of income tax that would term. have a consequential effect. If I have read the Command Paper correctly, there will be a no-detriment rule. Therefore, Stewart Hosie: That is not necessarily true, and we need if a change in the allowance structure has a consequential to look at both these measures: the growth in income effect, the block grant will be adjusted appropriately. tax versus the growth in total tax, and the percentage of the share of growth that we receive from income tax Stewart Hosie: That is what the Command Paper alone, owing to how it will be assigned to Scotland, with says, but because the Barnett rules have the effect of most of the higher parts being accrued still by the UK, squeezing income, we will have to see precisely how where growth is likely to be higher. the no-detriment clause works. Will it be an up-front no-detriment clause that pays against forecasts, or will Anas Sarwar: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, it be retrospective that pays should the estimate be under the arrangement imposed by the Bill, we would lower than the forecast? None of that is at all clear yet. share not only the potential benefits, but the potential That is precisely the kind of issue that we want to probe risks? with more detailed amendments in Committee. The limited borrowing powers are slightly poorly Stewart Hosie: Notwithstanding the deflationary bias, designed and would constrain the Scottish Government, there might be growth in some elements of income tax rather than assist them. Fundamentally, the borrowings revenue, but in terms of sharing risks the downsides for can be made not against forecast reductions in revenue, Scotland are much greater. In an intervention, I said but against reconciled outturn receipts 12 months after that, if a future Scottish Government chose, for example, the end of the financial year. That means that revenue to reduce income tax to stimulate economic growth and borrowing cannot even act as an automatic stabiliser to it worked, they would take the hit in reduced income tax fill the tax gap during a downturn—something that revenue, but the UK Government would benefit from every party accepts is necessary and supports. In short, the additional corporation tax yield. There are probably the powers will expose the Scottish Government to 541 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 542
[Stewart Hosie] needs. The proposal is that access will commence from 2013, subject, as we heard earlier, to Treasury approval the full negative impact of the economic cycle, rather on a per-project basis. In the face of the budget cuts and than present them with the ability to mitigate those the urgent need to invest in infrastructure, that is not problems. soon enough. Secondly, revenue borrowing will be capped at The remaining tax proposals in the Bill are limited, £200 million in a single year and at £500 million in total. although welcome. I have to say, however, that the Therefore, even if the timing of the borrowings could Conservatives appear to have U-turned on some of the have been sorted out, the limits would have been inadequate taxes that Calman said should be devolved. As I said, to close the revenue gaps in 2008-09 and 2009-10, when this is not a dry, academic exercise, and we would like the calculated budget shortfalls were £400 million and stamp duty to be incremental, so that people do not £800 million respectively. That might be what the hon. pay the full whack for hitting the threshold. I am glad Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun meant when she that responsibility for that is being devolved. It was referred to the economic parts of the Bill. worth £593 million in Scotland in 2008-09, but that was Thirdly, the repayment of borrowings within four only 1.4% of all the non-North sea revenue raised in years almost certainly means that repayments will have Scotland. to be made at precisely the wrong point in the economic cycle. To make that point more solid, the proposals Fiona O’Donnell: The hon. Gentleman has been very would have required the revenue borrowing needed to reasonable in acknowledging the parts of the Bill of cover the shortfalls between 2008-09 and 2009-10 to be which he approves. Would his amendment not therefore repaid in the current comprehensive spending review have been more reasonable if it had said “on the whole” period, when the Scottish block grant is already under rather than “as a whole”? pressure from proposed cuts of more than £3 billion. Borrowing and repayment should be possible over the Stewart Hosie: There are forms of words that can be entire economic cycle and should not have arbitrary accepted, tabled and selected and forms of words that timelines attached to them. Cyclical borrowing can cannot. I stand by the amendment, because it is important mitigate volatility, but the proposals will generate additional to challenge the Bill in areas in which we do not believe volatility in future budgets. it comes up to scratch, and it would appear that many The highly limited revenue borrowing powers that are of our concerns are shared among the parties. To have a proposed will be further constrained because the first dry, sterile debate about the words in the amendment 0.5% of any shortfall—about £127 million in 2014-15—will rather than its substantive nature does the Labour party have to be found from cuts in the cash reserve before no good. That is the only time I have been partisan in retrospective revenue borrowings can even be found. my entire speech, and I will stick to that. The second borrowing power in the Bill is for capital expenditure. It is welcome, but could be improved. The Ian Murray rose— cumulative borrowing total that is set out is £2.2 billion. That is quite low compared with recent Scottish Anas Sarwar rose— Government investment of more than £3 billion a year. Borrowing in any year will be limited to 10% of the capital DEL—approximately £230 million by 2014-15—not Stewart Hosie: I am going to go on with my speech. the total budget. For example, a replacement Forth We would like the landfill tax to be used to support crossing costing between £1.7 billion and £2.2 billion waste separation at source, recycling, waste minimisation would use up the entire additional capital borrowing, if and packaging reduction, so we welcome its being devolved. we were able to secure it under the constrained limits set However, at £85 million, it represents only 0.2% of out by the Treasury. The only way to increase the limit Scotland’s non-North sea revenues. We welcome parts to allow additional borrowing would be for the UK of the Bill, but there are significant weaknesses and Parliament to agree to a legislative amendment. I am flaws in it, and I believe that I have explained the not sure that that is the best approach for securing potential deflationary bias in its main economic powers. long-term sustainable capital investment. I have said that there are bits of the Bill that we like The borrowing powers in the Bill will limit the Scottish and bits that we need to change, and it is hugely Government to certain types of borrowing. They will be disappointing that some of the Calman tax proposals able to use loans, rather than bonds or other instruments have been excluded. The Government have decided not that would provide greater flexibility. Transport for to devolve air passenger duty or aggregates duty. They London, which is a local authority in respect of its argue that since aggregates duty is subject to challenges borrowing powers, is currently issuing commercial paper at EU level it cannot be devolved, but had it been worth £7 billion for Crossrail and other projects. devolved, the Scottish Government would have been Birmingham city council issued paper to the tune of required to take exactly the same cognisance of an EU £250 million in 2006, and it seems passing strange that decision as the UK Government. The same applies to what should be seriously enhanced powers for the Scottish other taxes. The Government argue that air passenger Parliament would not even put it on a par with TFL or duty is under review and cannot be devolved, but the Birmingham city council in its ability to raise cash whole purpose of devolving responsibility is to allow through commercial paper for important national the system to be different if it is sensible or necessary. infrastructure works. They should devolve the matter first and then have the We are also concerned, like the hon. Member for review in England. If the Scottish Government decided Kilmarnock and Loudoun, that the Bill might not that they needed to have a review, they could do so in provide access to capital quickly enough to meet Scotland’s their own good time. 543 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 544
I am further disappointed that, as the right hon. cross-party calls in the Scottish Parliament. The exception Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) said, the Calman was, of course, the Scottish National party, which refused proposal on revenue from savings and dividend income to have anything to do with those much-needed discussions. was not included in the Bill. That would have been Calman made several recommendations, including extremely important because of the link with income on tax-raising powers and responsibilities for capital tax, and because of the complexity of the rates about borrowing. The Scottish Government have been accountable which she spoke. for spending taxpayers’ money for the past 12 years, We will not stand in the way of the Bill, although we and it is now appropriate that they are accountable for have set out a series of issues in our reasoned amendment. how it is raised. The powers will increase the proportion of revenue that the Scottish Parliament raises from Anas Sarwar: The hon. Gentleman has been very around 15% to 35% and give the Parliament the ability generous in giving way. He says that he will not stand in to borrow nearly £3 million in capital and revenue the way of the Bill, but the amendment clearly states expenditure. Greater powers over taxation will give that the SNP Members of the Scottish Parliament a significant ability “therefore considers the Bill as a whole to be unacceptable.” to stimulate sectors of the Scottish economy. That means that if the amendment is not accepted, he will vote against the Bill and against new powers for the Pete Wishart: I am sure that the hon. Lady listened Scottish Parliament. Is that the wording in the amendment carefully to my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee wrong, or is it just the wrong politics from the SNP? East (Stewart Hosie) when he explained his problems with the Bill. He described a deflationary bias that is Stewart Hosie: We are 10 years into devolution. We built into the heart of its financial provisions. Why does have a Scottish Parliament, of which everyone speaks the hon. Lady not think that there is a deflationary highly. The Bill purports to devolve some significant bias? How is there no deflationary bias in the proposals powers and give additional responsibility, which is good. as they stand? However, those powers are not good enough. If all Labour can do is snipe, “They didnae do that, they Gemma Doyle: If the hon. Member for Dundee East didnae do this”, rather than consider the substantive (Stewart Hosie) would like to discuss that with me, I issues—[Interruption.] I shall tell hon. Members what would be happy to do so when he is in the Chamber or we will do: we will press our reasoned and reasonable on another occasion. amendment to a vote, but we will not oppose the In addition to new powers on funding, Calman also measure. I hope that, when we deal with the matter recommended devolving powers to regulate air weapons, seriously, through amendments on issues that we have set the drink drive limit and determine national speed identified in common, we will have less Second Reading, limits. The inclusion of the transfer of those powers in pre-election banter and make the Bill much better. the Bill is welcome. However, some points of concern obviously remain, such as the aggregates levy, food labelling and charity registration. We would welcome 5.15 pm an update from the Under-Secretary on those matters. Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): On the whole, the Bill is the right approach to strengthening The hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) devolution and preserving the Union. mentioned banter, and before I deal with the substance In addition, the vast majority of Scots want that of the debate, I wish my hon. Friend the Member for approach. Polls show that most want more powers for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) a very happy birthday. their Parliament while remaining within the UK. Indeed, She made an excellent speech, despite the rather churlish some might say that Scottish people know that they sedentary comments of another hon. Member. It was have the best of both worlds: an effective Parliament not quite as good a speech as she made last night—but that enables them to find Scottish solutions to Scottish for those who missed that particular speech, I am afraid problems while being part of the fifth largest economy that it is not in Hansard, which is probably just as well. in the world. I welcome the opportunity to speak about the Bill, which As the nationalists encourage us to engage in flag will strengthen devolution and increase the accountability waving and sentimentalism, we should keep sight of the of the Scottish Parliament to the people of Scotland. It vital importance of our economic and cultural partnership will build on the historic work of the Labour Government in the UK. As I have already mentioned, Calman was in establishing the Scottish Parliament. established as a consequence of cross-party support, I campaigned for a Scottish Parliament as a teenager but it did not receive unanimous backing. Far from in 1997, even though I was not old enough to vote in the seeking to strengthen devolution within the Union, it is referendum. In the past decade, devolution has proved the ultimate goal of the SNP to break up Britain and to to be the right form of governance for Scotland. The break the historic, cultural and economic ties that bring Parliament has delivered free personal care for the strength to Scotland and breadth to Britain. elderly, guaranteed a nursery place for every three and Rather than engage in the process of making the four-year-old and led the way for the rest of the UK, as Parliament stronger, the SNP chose to indulge in its my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (Margaret own national conversation, as my hon. Friend the Member Curran) said, by introducing the smoking ban, among for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) mentioned. By its other measures. own admission, it spent nearly £2 million on a conversation The Scottish Parliament has been a great success, but with itself on the terms of a referendum on full after a decade of devolution, it was time to review how independence, which would have cost £9 million but it works in practice. That is why the Labour Government was later abandoned anyway. That was a complete established the Calman commission in response to the waste of money. 545 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 546
[Gemma Doyle] repeating the mistakes of the Thatcher years by cutting key economic budgets, and by cutting teachers and So obsessed is the SNP with its separatist agenda that NHS staff by thousands. it refused to accept that most Scots do not want independence. The SNP does not understand that the Mr MacNeil: Will the hon. Lady give way? priorities of ordinary Scots are protecting and creating jobs, better schools and hospitals, and making our communities safer. That is why Scots are not listening Gemma Doyle: I have already given way to the hon. to the SNP any more. Gentleman, so may I make some progress please? One reason why Scots voted for devolution in ’97 was Ian Murray: My hon. Friend mentioned the SNP that they lived through a Tory Government in the ’80s obsession with independence. Does she agree that it is a who did not care about us, and who indeed used Scotland sad indictment of the SNP that it was so desperate for as a testing ground for their most reviled policy—the a Conservative Government—against the wishes of the hated poll tax. The establishment of the Scottish Parliament Scottish people—further to advance its independence should mean that we in Scotland have some defence agenda? against the worst excesses of any Tory Government, but that will not happen now that we have an SNP Government Gemma Doyle: That is very worrying. Before the in Scotland. general election last year, Alex Salmond in fact said that People in my constituency have been hit by an SNP he would prop up a Tory Government if necessary, and double whammy. An SNP-run council is mounting an as such I agree with my hon. Friend. When I talk to attack on the most vulnerable by imposing unfair charges people in my constituency in West Dunbartonshire— on the elderly and disabled, and an SNP Government are making cuts to local services that are deeper in my Mr MacNeil: Will the hon. Lady give way? area than across the rest of Scotland. The figures bear that out. The SNP in government has seriously failed the people of Scotland and Scots continue to reject Gemma Doyle: Not at the moment. separation in massive numbers. As the SNP continues People in my constituency tell me that their biggest to pursue its obsession with separation, it becomes concerns are about jobs. There are reports that there more and more out of touch by the day. That was could be 1,700 local redundancies—[Interruption.] That highlighted by the hon. Member for Perth and North illustrates the difference between Labour and SNP Perthshire (Pete Wishart) when he spent his time failing Members. I am talking about jobs in my constituency to speak to his amendment, but talking about Antarctica and not about independence, which is why I am not and caravans. giving way at the moment. My constituents are concerned that there could be 1,700 local redundancies in my Pete Wishart: It is really sad that we are back to constituency alone as a result of the actions of this incoherent ranting in interchangeable speeches from Tory-led Government. They are concerned about the Labour Members. Will the hon. Lady talk about the impact of the VAT increase, spiralling fuel price increases, Bill? What amendments would she like to see to improve and the effects of cuts to tax credits and child benefits the Bill? Where can we achieve cross-party consensus to on their families. They fear the impact on local hospitals achieve a powerhouse Bill? What valuable contribution and their children’s schools of the SNP’s cuts to teachers will she make in Committee to improve the Bill? and NHS staff. Gemma Doyle: Just before I gave way, I mentioned Mr MacNeil: Would the hon. Lady prefer that powers the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, which I think was over aspects of Scottish life that are important for very generous of me, given that he did not speak to it keeping jobs in her constituency and my constituency at all. were controlled in the Scottish Parliament, or would she prefer them to be controlled by the Tory-Liberal The Calman commission concluded that the real way Government here in London? Does she prefer the Scottish to strengthen devolution to make a real difference to the Parliament or the Tory-Liberal Government? everyday lives of Scots is to give the Scottish Parliament some specific additional powers and some more responsibility for tax raising. The test of this Bill is Gemma Doyle: At the moment, I am afraid that I am whether it delivers those things effectively. I remain not too keen on either, but we must work in both concerned about a few particular aspects of the Bill, but Parliaments. I hope that detailed scrutiny will make it stronger. On People in my constituency do not share the SNP’s the whole, I believe that it will consolidate devolution obsession with the constitution, which is another reason and build on the transformation of the governance of why Scots do not listen to the SNP anymore. Who can Scotland delivered by Labour in 1999, and I look forward blame them, given its record in government? Before the to supporting its progress through Parliament. Scottish election in 2007, the SNP promised the earth to the people of Scotland, but it has broken promise after Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) promise. It broke promises on schools and promises to (LD): On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Could scrap the council tax. Its promise to write off student you clarify the procedural consequences if the House debt and many others were also broken. were to vote in favour of the SNP amendment? Would it People are furious that the SNP Government are mean no Second Reading for the Bill and, therefore, no doing the Tories’ job for them in Scotland. They are Committee stage? 547 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 548
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): If the amendment I would like to touch on a few of the points made were passed, the Bill could go forward—[Interruption.] during the debate. The hon. Member for Carlisle (John I know what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but we Stevenson) spoke from the perspective of a Scot who would still go on to the main motion. He is talking represents an English constituency. As an Englishman about hypothetical situations. Let us see whether the with a Scottish family and a Scottish constituency, I amendment is pressed to a Division and what then share his view that differences arising from devolution happens. are not to be scoffed at, and in fact provide an opportunity for jurisdictions in different parts of the United Kingdom 5.27 pm to learn from each other. He mentioned the cross-border issues that will particularly affect his constituents, and Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ I know that they will affect the constituents of both Co-op): It is a pleasure to be able to make some remarks Scotland Office Ministers as well. In particular, he following this interesting and wide-ranging debate, which mentioned drink-driving and speed limits. I am concerned has been sometimes informed and often lively. I am sure that the largely thorough evidence brought to Calman that the Minister will wish to respond to specific points might not have been as comprehensive in that area as raised by hon. Members, so I shall endeavour to be concise. in others. I am sure that we will need to consider in In the opening speech, the Secretary of State set out Committee the lack of evidence in those areas from key the background to this Bill and the Calman commission organisations and get some reassurances from Ministers, that preceded it. Some hon. Members, in various capacities, particularly on how the practical arrangements for cross- have had some familiarity with the Calman commission border issues will work. over recent years, including the motion in the Scottish The right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) Parliament to establish the commission; its interim report; and my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Graeme the report of the expert group on finance led by Anton Morrice) made the important point that there is not Muscatelli; the final report by the commission; the currently—and nor has there ever been—any appetite White Paper before the general election; and the Bill in Scotland for separating from the rest of the United published late last year. I pay tribute to the contribution Kingdom. The Scottish National party might think that made by the Secretary of State’s officials in the Scotland there is, but as yet it has failed in every electoral test Office and the often complex work that they have done to convince the public to follow that course. From that to get to where we are today. perspective, it is therefore important that we use this As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North opportunity to strengthen the Scottish Parliament as a (Ann McKechin) made clear, the Labour party here and part of the United Kingdom. That is in the interests of in the Scottish Parliament supports and welcomes the our constituents and accords with their views every work of the Calman commission which underpins this time it has been tested. Bill. That process was, by and large, an extensive exercise My hon. Friends the Members for Edinburgh North in basing recommendations on evidence, something and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) and for Glasgow North that is not always apparent in debates on this issue, referred to the omission of the Calman commission which understandably arouse passionate views. recommendation on charity regulation. I understand In his usual lively and energetic—albeit lengthy—manner, that the Command Paper makes it clear that a review of the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete charity law is being undertaken, but that recommendation Wishart) spoke of his concerns about the level of scrutiny was present in the White Paper and is another point of the Bill. I hope that he was reassured by contributions that we will wish to consider in Committee. My hon. from many other Members. The fact that we have made Friend the Member for Livingston also referred to the clear our broad support for the Bill does not mean that omission of the Calman recommendation on food there are not issues that we wish to press further in standards. As I am sure that Ministers are aware, the Committee and reflect upon. That is a much more Scottish Retail Consortium has expressed its disappointment mature approach at this stage than a blanket dismissal on that point. Again, we will look at the outcome of the of the Bill. Points have been made by Members representing scrutiny of both the Holyrood committee and the Scottish all parties that we will look to test in Committee over Affairs Committee to see how that can be rectified in the next few weeks. due course. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North My right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling West (John Robertson) mentioned similar points, and (Mrs McGuire) and my hon. Friend the Member for the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) reminded Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) highlighted the concerns us of her memories of the scrutiny of the Scotland Act that remain about the lack of detail in the definition of 1998 as it progressed through the House. I am sure that firearms. That will also require further work; again, I the Government Front-Bench team will look forward to hope that we will obtain assurances from Ministers in her continued involvement in Committee over the next Committee. few weeks. Importantly, we will also reflect on the The hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain scrutiny work being carried out by the Scottish Parliament Stewart), who has spent some time in my constituency—he committee and the report of the Select Committee on stood there unsuccessfully in the Scottish Parliament Scottish Affairs on the Scotland Bill. My hon. Friends elections in 1999—rightly highlighted an important point the Members for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) and about how the Barnett formula is used as shorthand for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) are for other issues. I am sure that he will spend some time members of that Committee, as is the hon. Member for speaking to his hon. Friend the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), and no doubt they Warrington South (David Mowat) about that. Importantly, will provide robust scrutiny of the views and opinions those issues arise from a concern about the lack of of some of those whose work is prayed in aid by those accountability for the Scottish Parliament, an issue that who are against aspects of the Bill. the Bill seeks to address. 549 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 550
[Tom Greatrex] Today’s debate is a testament to the significance of the Scotland Bill for the future of Scotland and the My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East United Kingdom. Although the opening of the Scottish (Mr Bain) referred to the detailed examination that Parliament in 1999 was quite rightly greeted with much underpins the financial propositions in the Bill. He was fanfare—I was pleased to play my part in that day, along right to do so, and I would recommend that those with the hon. Members for Kilmarnock and Loudoun Members who are interested look at the detailed work (Cathy Jamieson) and for Glasgow East (Margaret of the finance group on that issue. Importantly, my Curran)—there was, as has been said, a recognition at hon. Friend also drew the distinction between this that time of the view, which was personified by the then constitutional Bill, which has been the subject of lengthy First Minister, Donald Dewar, that devolution was a cross-party discussion and a process that translated process rather than an event. across from one Government to another, and some of Equally, it must be recognised that this Bill is part of the other constitutional measures that this Government a process within that process of devolution. It is part of have introduced. I hope that the Government will reflect the Calman process. The Calman process is one that I on that in all seriousness, because the best way of have been involved in from the very beginning. It began looking at detailed constitutional issues is to seek to back in 2007, when I joined the then Scottish Secretary, take people along, rather than rushing things through now Lord Browne of Ladyton and the Government quickly and then finding oneself in difficulty elsewhere. deputy Chief Whip, and the three parties’ leaders at My hon. Friends the Members for Kilmarnock and Holyrood, Wendy Alexander, Annabel Goldie and Nicol Loudoun and for Glasgow East spoke reflectively and Stephen—I pay tribute to them, as did the hon. Member knowledgeably from their perspective as sitting Members for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain)—in seeking to of the Scottish Parliament and former Ministers in establish an independent review of Scottish devolution, previous Administrations in Scotland. They also reflected 10 years on. I want to put on record the Government’s on the important issue—an issue that, although not in thanks not just to them, but to the right hon. Member the Bill, is reflected in the Command Paper—of the for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) and all those who relationships between the UK Government and the worked with him, to Iain Gray MSP and Tavish Scott devolved Administration, and between the Parliaments. MSP, who joined us over subsequent months in the Those are important issues for us all to reflect on and cross-party steering group to lay the groundwork on get right, because at various points in the past there how to implement the recommendations that emerged have been some perhaps rather more political interventions from the review. in those relationships and how they have worked, which It gives me great personal satisfaction to be part of a have not always been to the good of the people of new coalition Government who are seeing Calman through. Scotland. My hon. Friends also both spoke about issues I know that the Opposition remain behind the process, of key importance to their constituencies, on the basis too, and I was pleased to learn that on his visit to the of a great deal of experience. Scottish Parliament on 30 June last year, the current The Labour party in Scotland believes in a strong Labour leader said that Scottish Parliament and a strong Scotland. I hope that “we also recognise the need for Scotland to have an ability to vary we will have the opportunity in a few short weeks to its tax rates on the basis of the Calman commission proposals.” elect a strong Scottish Administration, but to do so as I am glad there is at least one thing on the blank sheet of part of the United Kingdom, sharing risks and resources, paper. as others have said, and because that reflects the views of the vast majority of the people of Scotland. As my I welcome the considered remarks of the hon. Members right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling and my hon. for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin) and for Rutherglen Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun rightly and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex). It was clear not pointed out, that is what the people of Scotland have just from their remarks but from many Back-Bench confirmed at every electoral test, including and since contributions from both sides of the House that this the referendum. Bill will indeed receive due scrutiny in this House. Any suggestion to the contrary would be quite wrong. We will support the Bill on Second Reading. We support the process that underpins it and the degree of Let me pick up on one or two of the points about involvement that led to that, but there are also issues taxation that the hon. Member for Glasgow North that we wish to test. There are issues that we will wish to raised. I emphasise particularly that the Government, reflect on following the scrutiny of the Holyrood committee the Scottish Government and Her Majesty’s Revenue and the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs. We will and Customs are working together through the high-level look to test those in Committee, perhaps by way of implementation group and other forums to ensure that amendments, but we will do so in a serious, reflective the tax system works in a way that minimises administration and responsible way. We come to this measure as a for business and makes it is as easy as possible for party that believes in a Scottish Parliament as part of Scottish taxpayers to operate. the United Kingdom, seeking not to undermine devolution, Our clear view is that the system that allows people but to support and develop it. We look forward to the resident in Scotland for tax purposes to have a distinct opportunity of doing so in the weeks to come. Scottish tax code will deal with many of the issues that have been reported. For example, the notion that everyone 5.38 pm in Scotland will be required to fill in an income tax The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland return when they do not do so currently is without (David Mundell): I begin by thanking all right hon. and foundation. I am sure that we will be able to return to hon. Members for their contributions to the debate. I these issues when we get into detailed examination of shall try to deal with the detail raised in individual the Bill and debate the precise definition of “a Scottish contributions as time allows. taxpayer”. I am sure that hon. Gentlemen and, indeed, 551 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 552 my hon. Friends, will come forward with the many and form, is unacceptable, yet when Scottish National party varied occupations that could provide a basis for challenging Members are asked whether they support the Bill, and the definition of being resident in Scotland. I was not whether they will support it if it emerges from the expecting to hear a reference to stage hypnotists today, parliamentary process in broadly the same terms, they but this shows the variety of issues in respect of which are unable to give an answer. I am afraid that the we can debate whether they should be devolved or not. amendment strikes me as no more than a stunt—an opportunity to say, “We opposed it,” while agreeing Pete Wishart: Antarctica! with it. It is absolutely ludicrous that a party, which has some worthy people in it—the worthiness of the views David Mundell: Of course, Antarctica is another issue—it of many members of the SNP has been acknowledged— became of interest to the Scottish National party only should come to the House and say, when additional when it discovered that it might no longer be devolved. powers for the Scottish Parliament are proposed, “No, As became clear in the debate, SNP policy on it is not we don’t want them. Because we can’t have our own exactly clear. way, we’re not going to support the Bill.” The Calman process provides a great example of different political parties working together in the national Stewart Hosie: The Minister has not listened to the interest, and I am sure that Opposition Members will in debate. We made it extremely clear that we will not due course come to see the coalition Government in a stand in the way of any powers being devolved to similar light. If the Bill benefits from being cross-party, Scotland. As the Bill stands, however, it has huge flaws it also benefits from being cross-Parliament. I have no and needs to be improved. That is a rather sensible doubt that the Bill, and support for it, will be enhanced thing to say, one would have thought, on Second Reading. through being tested by the unique tricameral scrutiny to which it is subject—in this House, in the other place and in the Scottish Parliament. David Mundell: In that regard, the hon. Gentleman’s I was extremely disappointed by the way in which comments are as incoherent as his comments in relation Scottish National party Members derided the Scottish to the financial provisions. The SNP stands against the Parliament process of scrutiny, about which the hon. Bill, and will divide the House on the basis that the Bill Member for Glasgow East spoke eloquently, and which is unacceptable. If the motion is carried, that, as Mr Deputy is accepted as one of the great assets of the Scottish Speaker has indicated, would be the basis on which the Parliament. As ever with the Scottish National party, Bill went forward. The position set out by the SNP is however, the issue is not the level of scrutiny but whether incoherent not just financially but constitutionally. the scrutineers agree with it. Let me now deal with some other, more sensible contributions. We heard from a number of old hands—old Stewart Hosie: The Minister is wrong: there was no in terms of the devolution process, although not, of criticism of the process of Scottish Parliament Committee course, in terms of years. We heard from my hon. scrutiny, which is a model, an exemplar, a fantastic Friend the Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing), system. The difficulty was the shameful way in which who described her experience of the scrutiny of the certain witnesses and potential witnesses were treated. I original Scotland Act. We also heard from the hon. am happy to defend them against the Committee involved, Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donohoe), who is no which treated some of them appallingly. longer in the Chamber, but who is a great supporter of devolution whenever the opportunity arises. David Mundell: Anybody who reads the transcripts The right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), will realise that it was the way in which the evidence was who has campaigned on these issues for a long time and given, and its quality, that was the issue in the sessions with some success, made a thoughtful speech. I can concerned. I look forward to the evidence of Scotland’s inform him that the United Kingdom Government as a Finance Secretary when he is recalled to that Committee. whole will review charity law, and that, as we have made Given some of the comments of the hon. Member for clear in the Command Paper, we felt that it would be Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), we will not better to enact the spirit of the Calman recommendations take too many lessons from his party on respect within once that review had been completed in the rest of the context of a debate. the UK. The commission’s initial task was to review A number of Members raised the question of changes “the provisions of the Scotland Act 1998 in the light of experience and to recommend any changes to the present constitutional in the income tax threshold. The Command Paper arrangements that would enable the Scottish Parliament to serve makes it clear that the Government would proceed on the people of Scotland better, that would improve the financial the basis of no detriment, and that any such changes accountability of the Scottish Parliament and that would continue would be accommodated in the block grant settlement. to secure the position of Scotland within the United Kingdom.” I congratulate the hon. Member for East Lothian As we have heard today, there is an overwhelming (Fiona O’Donnell) on the fact that she is celebrating consensus in the House and in Scotland that the Bill her birthday, although I am slightly concerned that she lives up to that vision. It builds on the success of the should enjoy doing so in combat with some members of first 11 years of the Scottish Parliament, and addresses the SNP.During the course of the debate, I realised that Holyrood’s one critical flaw: the lack of revenue-raising there was an obvious gift for her: the book by my hon. power to match its spending power. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain On the amendment, I defer to the House and the Stewart). As he revealed that he had a large number of Speaker, who selected it, but I am not sure how to copies, not only the hon. Lady but most of her constituents respond. It clearly states that the Bill, in its present would be able to receive one. 553 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 554
[David Mundell] However, although she is one of the younger Members of this House, it appeared that she was somewhat stuck My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John in the 1980s. Stevenson) made some important points about cross-border My final remarks are for those people who have relations. As both the Secretary of State and I are well opposed this process, who have sat on the sidelines aware, people living in the border regions have long every time they have had an opportunity to contribute been able to cope with the differences on either side of to this process and who are only able to come forward at the border. For instance, the well-established difference the last minute with carping complaints. What I say to in the licensing laws that used to prevail did not cause them is— any particular difficulties. The existing devolution settlement does not cause any difficulties, and the revised settlement Mr MacNeil rose— will not cause any either. The hon. Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) David Mundell: I have no time to give way. made the important point that strengthening devolution I ask those people to reflect, in the few minutes left, does not undermine the United Kingdom, but strengthens on the fact that if they support this process and if their it. As well as giving us a précis of his book, my hon. party supports more powers for the Scottish Parliament, Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South raised they should not press their amendment to a Division. significant points about, for instance, pension plan Interestingly, we heard a lot of quotes about academics payments. I can reassure him that the high-level who support the Calman process but, as Scottish Members implementation group involving HMRC is examining will have noted, certain academics were very absent those issues at this moment. from today’s debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South I want to finish on a specific financial point. It is (David Mowat) intervened on my hon. Friend the Member absolutely essential that we scotch the idea of an £8 billion for Milton Keynes South on the subject of the Barnett deflationary bias that been mentioned repeatedly but formula, and was subsequently involved in a discussion has no factual basis. There is no deflationary bias about of the subject. I accept that concern has been expressed the financing mechanism that is at the heart of the about the system of devolution funding, but tackling Scotland Bill. The Scottish Government’s assertions are the deficit is the Government’s top priority, and any based on a period when public spending rose faster than changes would await stabilisation of the public finances. tax receipts—the very activity that resulted in record The current funding arrangements—in essence, the Barnett levels of borrowing and debt. That is unsustainable, and formula—are set out in an administrative agreement it is simply incorrect to infer that the result from that rather than in statute, but the financing mechanism period equates to a deflationary bias. If implemented in the Bill would apply equally well to another way of now, the means of financing would in fact benefit calculating the block grant. The Bill does not fix the Scotland during the fiscal consolidation. I urge hon. Barnett formula in stone for the future. It neither rules Members to support the Bill. in nor rules out reform of the Barnett formula in the Question put, That the amendment be made. future; indeed, it is designed to be flexible in relation to alternative approaches to funding. The House divided: Ayes 5, Noes 252. The right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), a Division No. 184] [5.59 pm seasoned campaigner on these issues, made a number of important points. I can reassure her that the Government AYES are not devolving taxation in relation to savings and Hosie, Stewart Tellers for the Ayes: unearned income, so most of the things about which Robertson, Angus Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil she expressed concern will not come to pass. The hon. Weir, Mr Mike and Member for Glasgow North West (John Robertson), Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Jonathan Edwards who is no longer in his place, has always been a staunch Wishart, Pete supporter of the nuclear industry, and he is to be commended for that. However, he will be aware that, NOES after due consideration, the Calman commission concluded Afriyie, Adam Berry, Jake that there should be no change to the arrangements on Aldous, Peter Betts, Mr Clive new nuclear power stations in Scotland. Andrew, Stuart Bingham, Andrew The hon. Member for Glasgow North East made an Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Blackman, Bob Bacon, Mr Richard Blunt, Mr Crispin interesting point about a Scottish office for budget Bailey, Mr Adrian Boles, Nick responsibility, and I look forward to hearing more Bain, Mr William Bone, Mr Peter about that in the next stage of the debate. As I have said Baker, Norman Bradley, Karen on previous occasions, I very much welcome the hon. Baker, Steve Brady, Mr Graham Members for Glasgow East and for Kilmarnock and Baldwin, Harriett Brake, Tom Loudoun to this House, because they bring a great Banks, Gordon Bray, Angie depth of experience of the Scottish Parliament and of Barclay, Stephen Brazier, Mr Julian being in government in Scotland—in coalition with the Barker, Gregory Bridgen, Andrew Liberal Democrats, of course. I reassure the hon. Member Baron, Mr John Brokenshire, James for Glasgow East, in her absence, that the Government Barwell, Gavin Brown, Lyn are committed to the Bill’s proposals on airguns and Bellingham, Mr Henry Brown, rh Mr Nicholas that I listened to the powerful case she made in that Benyon, Richard Browne, Mr Jeremy regard. Finally, I did welcome the contribution of the Beresford, Sir Paul Bruce, rh Malcolm hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle). Berger, Luciana Buckland, Mr Robert 555 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 556
Burley, Mr Aidan Healey, rh John Paice, rh Mr James Stewart, Iain Burns, Mr Simon Heath, Mr David Parish, Neil Stewart, Rory Burstow, Paul Heaton-Harris, Chris Patel, Priti Stride, Mel Burt, Alistair Hepburn, Mr Stephen Penning, Mike Stunell, Andrew Byles, Dan Herbert, rh Nick Penrose, John Swales, Ian Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hinds, Damian Percy, Andrew Swayne, Mr Desmond Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hoban, Mr Mark Phillips, Stephen Swinson, Jo Carmichael, Neil Hollingbery, George Pickles, rh Mr Eric Swire, rh Mr Hugo Carswell, Mr Douglas Hollobone, Mr Philip Pincher, Christopher Teather, Sarah Cash, Mr William Hopkins, Kris Poulter, Dr Daniel Thurso, John Clappison, Mr James Howarth, Mr Gerald Prisk, Mr Mark Tomlinson, Justin Clark, rh Greg Howell, John Pugh, John Tredinnick, David Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hughes, rh Simon Raab, Mr Dominic Tyrie, Mr Andrew Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Randall, rh Mr John Uppal, Paul Collins, Damian Hurd, Mr Nick Redwood, rh Mr John Vaizey, Mr Edward Cox, Mr Geoffrey Jamieson, Cathy Rees-Mogg, Jacob Vara, Mr Shailesh Crabb, Stephen Javid, Sajid Reid, Mr Alan Vaz, Valerie Crockart, Mike Jenkin, Mr Bernard Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Vickers, Martin Crouch, Tracey Johnson, Joseph Robertson, Mr Laurence Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Davey, Mr Edward Jones, Andrew Roy, Lindsay Walker, Mr Charles David, Mr Wayne Jones, Mr David Ruffley, Mr David Walker, Mr Robin Davies, David T. C. Jones, Mr Marcus Rutley, David Watkinson, Angela (Monmouth) Kawczynski, Daniel Sarwar, Anas Watson, Mr Tom Davies, Glyn Kelly, Chris Selous, Andrew Weatherley, Mike Davies, Philip Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Sharma, Alok Wharton, James Denham, rh Mr John Kirby, Simon Shelbrooke, Alec White, Chris Dinenage, Caroline Kwarteng, Kwasi Simmonds, Mark Whittingdale, Mr John Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Laing, Mrs Eleanor Skidmore, Chris Wiggin, Bill Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Lee, Dr Phillip Skinner, Mr Dennis Willetts, rh Mr David Doyle, Gemma Leech, Mr John Smith, Henry Williamson, Gavin Doyle-Price, Jackie Leslie, Charlotte Smith, Julian Willott, Jenny Duddridge, James Lewis, Brandon Smith, Sir Robert Wilson, Mr Rob Duncan, rh Mr Alan Lewis, Dr Julian Soubry, Anna Wollaston, Dr Sarah Dunne, Mr Philip Lidington, rh Mr David Spellar, rh Mr John Zahawi, Nadhim Ellis, Michael Lilley, rh Mr Peter Stanley, rh Sir John Tellers for the Noes: Elphicke, Charlie Lopresti, Jack Stevenson, John Miss Chloe Smith and Eustice, George Loughton, Tim Stewart, Bob Norman Lamb Evans, Jonathan Luff, Peter Evennett, Mr David Macleod, Mary Fabricant, Michael McClymont, Gregg Question accordingly negatived. Fallon, Michael McDonnell, John Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 62(2)), Featherstone, Lynne McGovern, Jim That the Bill be now read a Second time. Field, Mr Mark McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Question agreed to. Foster, rh Mr Don McKechin, Ann Francois, rh Mr Mark McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Bill accordingly read a Second time. Freeman, George McPartland, Stephen Freer, Mike Menzies, Mark Fullbrook, Lorraine Mercer, Patrick SCOTLAND BILL (PROGRAMME) Gardiner, Barry Metcalfe, Stephen Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Gauke, Mr David Michael, rh Alun Order No. 83A(7)), Gilbert, Stephen Mills, Nigel That the following provisions shall apply to the Scotland Bill: Glen, John Milton, Anne Committal Graham, Richard Moore, rh Michael 1. The Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole Gray, Mr James Mordaunt, Penny House. Grayling, rh Chris Morgan, Nicky Greatrex, Tom Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Proceedings in Committee Green, Damian Morris, Anne Marie 2. Proceedings in Committee of the whole House shall be Greening, Justine Morris, David completed in three days. Greenwood, Lilian Morris, James 3. The proceedings shall be taken on the days shown in the first Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Mosley, Stephen column of the following Table and in the order so shown. Griffiths, Andrew Mowat, David 4. The proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) Gummer, Ben Mundell, rh David be brought to a conclusion at the times specified in the second Gyimah, Mr Sam Munt, Tessa column of the Table. Hames, Duncan Murray, Ian TABLE Hamilton, Mr David Murrison, Dr Andrew Hammond, rh Mr Philip Neill, Robert Time for conclusion of Hammond, Stephen Newmark, Mr Brooks Proceedings proceedings Hancock, Matthew Nokes, Caroline First day Hands, Greg Norman, Jesse Clauses 1 to 9, Schedule 1, The moment of interruption Harris, Rebecca Nuttall, Mr David Clauses 10 to 12, Schedule 2, on the first day. Hayes, Mr John O’Donnell, Fiona Clauses 13 to 23. Heald, Mr Oliver Ottaway, Richard 557 Scotland Bill27 JANUARY 2011 Scotland Bill 558
(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable Time for conclusion of under the Scotland Act 1998 out of the National Loans Fund.— Proceedings proceedings (Mr Vara.) Second and third days Question agreed to. Clauses 24 to 26, Schedule 3, The moment of interruption Clauses 27 to 29, Schedule 4, on the third day. SCOTLAND BILL (WAYS AND MEANS) Clauses 30 and 31, Schedule 5, Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Clauses 32 to 39, new Clauses, new Schedules, remaining Order No. 52(1)(a)), proceedings on the Bill. That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Scotland Bill, it is expedient to authorise— 5. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to the proceedings on the Bill in Committee of the (1) the imposition by virtue of a rate-setting resolution of the whole House. Scottish Parliament of charges to income tax in relation to the income of Scottish ratepayers, Consideration and Third Reading (2) the making of provision, by Act of the Scottish Parliament, 6. Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously for imposing a tax to be charged on— concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings (a) the acquisition of an estate, interest, right or power in or are commenced. over land in Scotland, or 7. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously (b) the acquisition of the benefit of an obligation, restriction concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption or condition affecting the value of any such estate, interest, right on the day on which those proceedings are commenced, or one or power, hour after they are commenced, whichever is the earlier. (3) the making of provision, by Act of the Scottish Parliament, 8. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall for imposing a tax to be charged on disposals to landfill made in not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading. Scotland, Other proceedings (4) the amendment of the Scotland Act 1998 by Order in Council so as to— 9. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages (a) specify, as an additional tax about which provision may be from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Mr Vara.) made by Act of the Scottish Parliament, a tax of any description, or Question agreed to. (b) make any other modifications of the provisions relating to such taxes which Her Majesty considers necessary or expedient, and SCOTLAND BILL (MONEY) (5) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund or the Queen’s recommendation signified. National Loans Fund. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing In the Resolution, ‘rate-setting resolution’ means a resolution providing for a number which is to be added to the rate which Order No. 52(1)(a)), would otherwise be paid by Scottish taxpayers, after the deduction That, for the purpose of any Act resulting from the Scotland of ten percentage points, to calculate the basic rate, higher rate or Bill, it is expedient to authorise— additional rate payable by those taxpayers for any tax year on (1) the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any income other than savings income and which is either a whole increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any number or half a whole number.—(Mr Vara.) other Act out of money so provided, and Question agreed to. 559 27 JANUARY 2011 Western Sahara 560
Western Sahara him unacceptable to Polisario. Even if we agreed hypothetically with the principle of independence, we Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House must consider whether it is practical or achievable. It do now adjourn.—(Mr Vara.) would mean a country the size of Britain with a population smaller than that of Bristol. How could its Government 6.14 pm guarantee internal and external security in a highly Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): I challenging environment without relying indefinitely on must first declare my interests, which are entered in the benign or malign foreign agencies? Wouldwe be comfortable overseas visits section of the Register of Members’ with such an entity becoming the client state of the Financial Interests. I am also chair of the all-party People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria, which many group on Morocco and the parliamentary link for the human rights campaigners see as militaristic, closed British Moroccan Association. I have been in touch and repressive? We must be careful about supporting with Western Sahara Campaign UK and Polisario and the creation of states that are inherently unstable. We am grateful for their insights. I should make plain at the must also be cautious because of the security threat outset my admiration for Morocco, its history and highlighted by the terrorism and insurgency centre run people, and I am proud to represent the largest Moroccan by Jane’s. Although it ranks Morocco’s counter-terrorism expatriate community outside London. measures as “moderately effective”, it remains concerned I will spare the House the history and background of about frontier security and unregulated migration. the Western Sahara dispute, which should be taken as In Europe, we are not disinterested bystanders. We read. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for have a stake in getting this right. Since the UK’s treaty Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) and the hon. Member obligations have rendered our borders porous, for practical for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) wish to speak in purposes the southern Mediterranean coastline is our the debate, and my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon frontier. The recent trouble in Tunis and Algeria does (Mr Offord) would have liked to contribute, as he not read across directly to Morocco, but in the Maghreb attended the recent visit to Morocco and Western Sahara, and in Egypt we have seen significant civil unrest in but unfortunately he is unwell. recent days, which is a reminder of the fragility of countries It seems to me that there are broadly three options for with young populations, high youth unemployment and Western Sahara: the status quo, which has been described poor living standards. as “untenable”by the current UN special envoy, Christopher The third option is autonomy. In April 2007, Morocco Ross; independence, which is unrealistic, according to unveiled its autonomy plan for Western Sahara. In part, Peter Van Walsum, the previous UN special envoy; and it represented a compromise and, in part, it reflected autonomy, which is the option we are left with. I will go wider governance changes involving the greater devolution through those options one by one. of powers within Morocco itself. The UN Security I agree with Christopher Ross that the status quo is Council, in its resolution of 30 April 2010, noted the not an option. It is not an option for the inhabitants proposal and commended the of the Tindouf camps or of the wider Maghreb, who “serious and credible Moroccan efforts to move the process continue to pay the price economically and socially. forward towards resolution.” Violence in and around Laayoune in November, apparently In 2009, that was backed by the majority of US whipped up by grievances over Sahrawi social conditions, Congressmen and, in 2010, by the majority of the left 11 officials and two civilians dead. We are told that Senate. the fingerprints of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb are America, which prides itself on being Morocco’s not on that, just as there is no confirmed evidence of its oldest ally, has been understandably supportive. It knows complicity in the unrest in Tunisia and Algeria. Nevertheless, very well the benefits of a federal model and has in its the status quo in Western Sahara offers an opportunity history incorporated, annexed and otherwise acquired for fundamentalist terror groups to move out of their territory on a grand scale. The plan that remains on the operating bases in the vast, barely-governed spaces of table would establish a Sahara autonomous region within Mali, Niger and southern Algeria. the Kingdom of Morocco. It would have considerable There is no firm evidence of links between the Polisario autonomy and certainly move in the direction of the and AQIM. Indeed, it seems unlikely that Algeria would UN’s support for what it calls be keen to support an organisation with formal links to “self-determination of the people of the Western Sahara.” AQIM. Nevertheless, the potential for fundamentalist Some have even said that the powers over matters terrorists to feed off poverty and grievance is clear. We excluding foreign affairs, defence and the national judiciary simply cannot be complacent. In December, an arms exceed those devolved to Scotland and Wales. My hon. cache attributed to AQIM was discovered by the Moroccan Friend the Member for Monmouth might wish to comment authorities in Western Sahara. It is vital that we shrink on that in due course. the space available to insurgents. We must always be vigilant for the sorts of opportunities that have been There are, however, problems. Enumerating the Sahrawis, offered elsewhere. the Sahrawi diaspora and the resident Moroccan population I agree with Peter Van Walsum that independence is is a challenge that seems almost overwhelming. It failed no option at all. We understand that the American and completely in 2000, but the job has to be done under French Governments are at least sympathetic to Van both the independence and autonomy options. The Walsum’s position, and the UK considers Western Sahara’s only way we get out of it is if we are prepared to accept status to be undetermined and disputed and has lined the status quo. up behind the official UN position. Van Walsum was The Moroccan Government have said that they will apparently replaced as UN special envoy because he not entertain a referendum with independence as an said that independence was not realistic, which rendered option, but unless we exclude those people who have 561 Western Sahara27 JANUARY 2011 Western Sahara 562
[Dr Andrew Murrison] So far, the UN special envoy process has presided over the status quo. Christopher Ross convened a meeting migrated since 1975, with the presumption that if we do in December in New York and another last weekend, so they will not enjoy the citizenship of any Western the outcome of which was another fixture for Geneva in Saharan state, it seems unlikely that such a referendum February. We understand that that will focus on how will result in support for independence. That suggests family visits from the camps can more readily be achieved. that for Morocco the question of independence as an What is the Minister’s view on monitoring in the camps? option is one mainly of principle, rather than avoidance. How can the UK help to facilitate the safe passage of Another sticking point is the extension of the UN refugees who wish to visit family members in Western mandate to include human rights. I think my Moroccan Sahara? constituents would concur with the sentiments of two What have Baroness Ashton and her EU External enjoinders in that respect, one secular, the other divine: Action Service been doing to move matters on? If we “be sure you’ve sorted the beam in your own eye before have to have it, it might as well do something useful. the mote in your brother’s”; and “don’t make the perfect Given that Morocco counts as Europe’s near abroad the enemy of the good.” and that it has an association agreement with the EU, There was outrage here when the US tried to suggest what progress has been made on security, migration and that there should be UN human rights monitoring in welfare? Northern Ireland, so we can begin to see how Morocco, Given that MINURSO’s mandate is up for reaffirmation a proud country, should also resist, particularly when it in April, what discussions have the UK Government perceives that its eastern neighbour with a more questionable had with the permanent members of the UN Security record is left alone. The major human rights movements Council on the Moroccan Government’s autonomy plan? have a presence in Western Sahara, and both Malcolm What is the Minister’s attitude to that plan? I hope that Smart of Amnesty and Eric Goldstein of Human Rights the UK Government can join France and the US in Watch say that they have not been restricted in investigating being sympathetic. the November violence. Morocco has come a long way, but perhaps the time has come in the interests of facilitating 6.26 pm a lasting settlement for it to swallow hard and allow human rights monitors, thus defusing the claims of its Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I thank the opponents. hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) Morocco has earned much respect for its autonomy for allowing me three minutes to speak, given that this is plan, and Rabat might do well to accept an extension of a time-limited Adjournment debate. the mandate of the United Nations Mission for the I am the chair of the all-party parliamentary group Referendum in Western Sahara, or MINURSO, but it on Western Sahara. I first raised what I believe to be the would be ludicrous if that happened without including plight of the Sahrawi refugees in the House in 1984, and the Tindouf camps in southern Algeria, where light have raised the matter consistently ever since. This is desperately needs to be shone on darkness. The UK has possibly one of the longest-running sores in the world, a money interest, as it has contributed to the ¤165 million although the Palestine situation is even longer running. in humanitarian aid through the European Community For a moment, we should spare a thought for the humanitarian aid office, with the promise of more to people who have been living in refugee camps in Algeria come. We should worry, in the context of reported for this whole time—we are now on the third or fourth hardship in the camps, about aid money that might not generation of such families. We must recognise that end up where it is supposed to, because aid falls into they have a functioning elected Government in exile, disrepute when that happens—whether it is bilateral or a functioning parliamentary system, and effective through the fingers of Brussels. representatives in this country and around the world We have a duty to ensure that we know much more through their political party, Polisario. Indeed, Lamine about the camps, and who and how many people are in Baali is a very effective representative of the Polisario in them, if that money is to continue to be spent safely and this country. effectively. The King of Morocco has issued reassurances When I last raised this matter in the House, I sought to the refugees of the camps and undertaken to treat a meeting with the Minister. I am grateful to him for them well, and we understand that there has been a replying. I received a letter from him today in which he significant trickle back to Western Sahara, a process made one or two important points that I will refer to that is likely to develop as confidence is built up on quickly. First, he said that MINURSO needs to continue. all sides. I think I am right in saying that that is the only Can the Minister say what actions the UK has taken remaining UN-mandated organisation that does not to ensure the safety of the high-ranking Polisario official, have a human rights requirement. I think that it must Mustapha Salma? We have only unconfirmed reports have a human rights agenda that it observes, so that the that he has taken refuge in Mauritania, and his family issues of human rights abuse, at least, can be dealt with. are allegedly unable to be united with him, as they are Secondly, the Minister visited Morocco recently and I confined to Tindouf. What are we doing to clarify the believe that he is due to go there again—I am sure he position with Algeria? Whatever our position on the will tell me if I am wrong about that. What is his autonomy plan, we must recognise that Mustapha Salma’s perception and that of our ambassador on the current bravery, in defying Mohammed Abdel Aziz in order to position in el-Aaiun, where unfortunately there was a support proposals that he believes are in the interests of great deal of violence last year? I understand that a his people, is admirable. His witness is a substantial number of parliamentarians from Europe and elsewhere contribution to what I believe to be gathering support were refused access to the city, as were a number of for the autonomy plan. media people. I sought and obtained a meeting with the 563 Western Sahara27 JANUARY 2011 Western Sahara 564
Moroccan ambassador to discuss those issues, and I (Dr Murrison) on securing the debate and on allowing was assured that in future, parliamentarians would not the contributions of the hon. Member for Islington be prevented from visiting el-Aaiun. North (Jeremy Corbyn) and my hon. Friend the Member Thirdly, the EU fisheries agreement with Morocco for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies). All three contributions expires on 27 January. I do not have a problem with the indicated the seriousness with which the issue is taken EU having a fisheries agreement with Morocco; I do on both sides of the House and the long-standing have a problem with the idea that fish in the waters of commitment to it of a number of Members. As the hon. Western Sahara should be taken by international fishing Member for Islington North said, the problem is long vessels, with the money being paid to Morocco and running and difficult, and it exercises us all. I appreciate none of the benefits going to the Sahrawi people. That the way in which the House is dealing with it tonight. is an untenable position, which is of very questionable The disputed territory of Western Sahara seems, in legality. I hope that this time, Britain will be prepared to many ways, an intractable problem. However, the fact block the EU fisheries agreement until it is recognised that it is difficult does not mean that we should not try that without a resolution to the Western Sahara issue, to make progress. I share the concern of my hon. Friend the international community should not be making the Member for South West Wiltshire about the unresolved arrangements to take away the natural resources of status of Western Sahara, because the absence of a Western Sahara any more than Morocco should be settlement prevents regional integration and co-operation encouraging international companies to take away the on a range of important issues. The Government are mineral-rich resources in Western Sahara. committed to the United Nations Security Council This is a post-colonial issue. It is the last remaining position, calling for a just, lasting and mutually acceptable unresolved issue in Africa. The Government of Western political solution that provides for the self-determination Sahara are supported by Western Sahara Campaign of the people of Western Sahara. UK and the African Union. By law, there has to be a Sovereignty over Western Sahara has been contested resolution of the conflict in agreement with the wishes between Morocco and the Polisario Front, the Sahrawi of the people of Western Sahara. There have been movement for independence, since 1975. The UN brokered delays, obstructions and obfuscation about getting a a ceasefire in 1991 and set up MINURSO, the United referendum of the people of Western Sahara to bring Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara, about a solution, and I hope that the Minister will say as a peacekeeping operation with the intention of facilitating that Britain is going to stand up for the rights of those a public vote on the future of the territory within six people so that there can be a resolution based on months. Some 20 years later, that referendum is yet to international law, respect for the rights of the Sahrawi be held and MINURSO’s mandate continues to be people and a free-standing referendum. renewed on an annual basis by the UN Security Council. The UK fully supports the right of the Sahrawi 6.30 pm people to exercise their right to self-determination and David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): I will, of course, applauds the efforts of the UN Secretary-General’s be extremely brief, because I know that the Minister special envoy, Ambassador Christopher Ross, to encourage wants to respond. the parties to enter dialogue without preconditions. I I should like to declare that I was in Laayoune about have followed closely the progress of the negotiations two weeks ago as a guest of the Moroccan Government, convened by Ambassador Ross and am heartened that along with several other parliamentarians. There were the atmosphere between the parties is one of cordiality no problems at all with getting access and moving and respect. However, the fact remains that as yet, around, and in our discussions with MINURSO, it neither party is prepared to countenance the proposal made it clear that at no time had it had any problems in of the other as the single basis for any future negotiations. that regard. It made it pretty clear to us that it felt the For Morocco, the solution is autonomy; for the Polisario, Moroccan Government had behaved well on human it is a referendum with independence as a possible rights issues in the area. That came from a completely outcome. independent body, and we should take it seriously. Where Ambassador Ross has succeeded is in delivering The dispute is long running, and it is important for results in the important area of confidence-building all of us that it is settled. I may not be an expert on measures. We are pleased that on 7 January, the programme north Africa, but I know a thing or two about devolution of family visits by air between Moroccan-administered and the need to compromise sometimes. That is why it is Western Sahara and the Polisario-controlled refugee important that we look very favourably at the autonomy camps in Western Sahara was able to resume after a agreement, which would provide far more autonomy 10-month hiatus. than has been granted to Wales or Scotland. In fact, I I would also like to congratulate the parties on their would definitely have opposed it had it been offered in agreement to meet officials from the office of the high Wales or Scotland, because it is a big step on the route commissioner for human rights in Geneva from 9 to to independence. If that is what is required to settle the 10 February to discuss further confidence-building problems of the region, and to allow the Sahrawi people measures, such as the construction of a land bridge to the access to human rights and growing wealth that we facilitate visits by road. We wish these talks, which have have seen around the rest of Morocco, we should view it the potential significantly to improve the lives of ordinary favourably. Sahrawis, every success. However, those meetings alone are not sufficient to 6.31 pm address the myriad voices that are gravely concerned The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign about the accusations of human rights abuses made by and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): I congratulate both sides. The United Kingdom Government support my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire the idea of independent verification of the human 565 Western Sahara27 JANUARY 2011 Western Sahara 566
[Alistair Burt] access to the territory to several international observers. However, we were encouraged to learn that a confidence- rights situation. The UN currently has no role on the building meeting between all parties, which was due to ground in monitoring human rights, nor is human be held shortly afterwards in New York, went ahead, rights monitoring built into the MINURSO mandate. despite the difficulties. Without an independent monitor, it is rarely possible to It is our hope that the regrettable event—the incident follow up allegations of human rights violations. at Laayoune—will underline to the international community While remaining neutral on the political outcome of the importance of taking a proactive approach to this the disputed territory, the UK has played an active role year’s Security Council negotiations on the renewal of in bringing the humanitarian aspects of the conflict to MINURSO’s mandate. Neither party must assume that the forefront of the debate. To that end, we have considered the mandate will roll over as a matter of course. The a range of monitoring options, which we have circulated UK has been active in calling for greater transparency, to the parties and the members of the Group of Friends, and we will continue to pursue this approach. with the full support of Ambassador Christopher Ross. In answer to a question by my hon. Friend the We have also held detailed talks with other members of Member for South West Wiltshire about our activity in the Group of Friends and Morocco on the substance of relation to that, we used our November presidency of those proposals. I shall briefly summarise the components, the UN Security Council to chair a Council meeting to which, we believe, a human rights monitoring mechanism gather evidence about the events in Western Sahara requires to operate effectively and credibly. I note the from Ambassador Ross and the assistant secretary-general remarks that my hon. Friend the Member for South for peacekeeping operations. We were disappointed to West Wiltshire was good enough to make about the learn that, in the immediate aftermath, Morocco denied human rights mechanism. access to a number of international observers, including It is essential that any human rights monitoring should journalists, parliamentarians and NGOs, on security apply in equal measure to the Moroccan-administered grounds. However, having visited Morocco shortly territory of Western Sahara and the Polisario-controlled afterwards, I understand why the Moroccans felt that refugee camps in Tindouf, Algeria. The mechanism some elements of the international press markedly must be, and be seen to be, independent. Its aims and misrepresented the facts of the situation. objectives should be clearly set out and measurable to Our understanding now is that there are no restrictions ensure that monitoring activities are effective and on access to Western Sahara, and that members of civil accountable. It would also be strongly preferable for the society and international observers have been able to monitoring body to report to a body able to act on its visit. An official from the British embassy in Rabat findings. That is closely linked to the issue of the visited the territory in December 2010 and met a range mandate, since MINURSO, Ambassador Ross, or the of Moroccan officials, international bodies, UN agencies Security Council would be well placed to respond. and local non-governmental organisations. I understand We are aware that the human rights situation cannot that the all-party parliamentary group was granted a be discussed in isolation from the political sensitivities similar level of access on its recent visit. of the conflict, and I am genuinely grateful to Morocco As hon. Members are rightly aware, I too have had for the spirit of engagement in which it has responded the opportunity to travel to the region. During my visit to the non-paper, which circulated the proposals. I am to Morocco in December, I made clear to my interlocutors particularly grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for the benefits of a monitoring presence on the ground as South West Wiltshire for his comments. It is sometimes the best way to ensure a balanced picture of events. I difficult to accept an independent human rights monitoring appreciate the serious, proper and open manner of our aspect to any national state’s work, but it can make a conversation, and that there was much concern about significant difference in confidence building, particularly recent events. I also raised the matter during my visit to in an area of disputed territory. The United Kingdom Algeria in November, where I communicated the UK’s will continue to ensure that human rights and the interest in a secure and prosperous region working well human dimension of the conflict remain at the forefront together. Again, I appreciated the Algerian Minister’s of the debate, including during discussions on the response and understanding of the seriousness of the MINURSO resolution at the UN in April. situation. As the world is showing us, such long-standing That is all the more pressing in the light of recent disputes have a habit of popping up at the least expected developments in the disputed territory. As I am sure times, and it as well to continue to pay serious attention hon. Members know—it has already been mentioned—in to them and try to get things moving. early October, a large number of Sahrawis set up a Until the question of Western Sahara can be resolved, protest camp just outside Laayoune. Their mass protests there is little chance of a significant improvement in appear to have focused on socio-economic problems Morocco-Algeria relations. The Maghreb is an emerging rather than on the question of Western Sahara’s status. market and of growing strategic importance to the UK. On 8 November, following failed negotiations and warnings We are also interested in encouraging greater political to the protestors to disperse, the Moroccan royal openness throughout the region, but perhaps that is gendarmerie and auxiliary forces carried out an operation happening of its own accord. to dismantle the camps. That resulted in the deaths of On the worrying hypothesis put forward by my hon. 12 security personnel at the camps and two civilians in Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire, he rightly the subsequent unrest in Laayoune. conjects that Western Sahara is potentially vulnerable We were deeply saddened to hear of those violent to exploitation from extremists. The discovery earlier events and regret the loss of life. As the hon. Member this month of a significant al-Qaeda in the Maghreb for Islington North pointed out, we were also concerned arms cache at Amghaha, 220 km from Laayoune, is of to learn that, following those events, Morocco restricted particular concern. We share the Moroccan Government’s 567 Western Sahara27 JANUARY 2011 Western Sahara 568 concerns that AQIM is increasingly becoming involved partnership with Morocco is based on a commitment in criminal activity throughout the region, although we by the latter to uphold our common values. Respect for must stress, as my hon. Friend said, that we have no democratic principles, human rights and fundamental evidence to suggest a link between AQIM and the freedoms form the cornerstone of relations between the Polisario. We are carefully monitoring the activities of EU and Morocco. The consequences of the Western AQIM and its links with other organisations. As in Sahara situation are discussed at all meetings between the case of other terrorist groups, the issue of Western the two. The EU has emphasised to Morocco the Sahara continues to prevent meaningful co-operation importance that we attach to improving the human across the Maghreb on combating the shared threat rights situation in the territory of Western Sahara. The from extremist groups. matter was discussed at the latest meeting of the The hon. Member for Islington North referred to the EU-Moroccan association committee in Rabat in October fishing agreement. We believe that the EU-Morocco 2010, and Baroness Ashton is well sighted on it. fisheries partnership agreement is consistent with My hon. Friend referred to Mr Mustapha Salma. international law, but we are aware of concerns about Officials from the British embassy in Rabat have met his how the agreement is implemented, particularly in relation family, and officials in London raised his case with the to its impact on the people of Western Sahara. The FPA Polisario representative to the UK, so we are sighted on is due to expire in February 2011, and we expect the the issue. This matter will run— negotiations on a new agreement to take into account any changes in the situation since it was first agreed. 6.44 pm My hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order mentioned the EU External Action Service. The EU’s No. 9(7)).
147WH 27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 148WH
I will try to refer to those issues as I go through my Westminster Hall speech. Finally, the report said: “The decent homes programme in the private sector, meanwhile, Thursday 27 January 2011 has been much less effective.” Again, I will make comments about that.
[MR PETER BONE in the Chair] Let us consider the overall situation. Back in 2001, there was the challenge of a £17 billion backlog of disrepair and neglect in social housing in this country. Decent Homes That is a salient lesson that we must always hold at the [Relevant documents: Fourth Report from the Communities forefront of our minds. It is a stark reminder of what and Local Government Committee, Session 2009-10, HC 60, can happen if we put off dealing with maintenance and the Government response, Session 2010-11, HC 746.] projects and maintenance necessities for too long. A Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting backlog of disrepair builds up and must at some point be now adjourned.—(Mr Goodwill.) be addressed. The longer we leave it, the worse the problems are and the more money we have to spend on 2.30 pm them. Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): It is a The reality in 2001 was that, of the just over 4 million pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for what I homes in the social rented sector, nearly half were not think is the first time, Mr Bone. I will address my up to the decent standard. By 2010, that figure—there comments, as the title of the debate suggests, to the are slight variations on it, depending on the calculations report by the Select Committee on Communities and that are done—was down to about 10% of the total. It Local Government in the previous Parliament called is probably slightly more—perhaps 12%—but it is “Beyond Decent Homes”. The report built on a previous somewhere in that region. As the Committee’s report report by the Committee—its proper title at the time identified, there were problems with counting. To some was the Select Committee on the Office of the Deputy extent, counting was done by individual authorities, Prime Minister—back in 2004. That report examined and they had slightly different methods. Sometimes the the decent homes programme, which was then in the definition of a decent home varied from authority to fairly early stages of development. authority. For example, authorities sometimes counted as decent those properties whose tenants had refused to Obviously, the report was written at a certain time, have the work done. The programme passed them by but its analysis of what had happened and its conclusions and the property was then counted as decent because are relevant today. That said, I do accept—it is a pretty no work was immediately able to be done on it. That obvious fact—that the political and governmental climate was clearly nonsense, and I hope that it was eventually has changed since then, and I shall refer at one or two corrected. points to circumstances that have changed since then to bring matters up to date. Another issue that comes up is that the standard may be fixed, but homes can fall in and out of decency. They It will be appropriate to begin by quoting one or two can come into decency through improvement works, extracts from the conclusion, because it was a Committee but fall out of decency over time. The age requirements report and I want to reflect fairly what the Committee of the decency standard come into effect as a property as a whole believed to be important, rather than what I gets older, and then work is required that was not as a member at the time and now Chair believed to be required a year before. As the programme is postponed important. The conclusion began by saying: and work is put off further, more houses can fall within “By any standards, the Decent Homes programme can be its scope. counted as a very significant public policy success. A substantial backlog of repairs and maintenance in social housing existed About £40 billion of public money—about £12 billion thirteen years ago and a significant percentage of council rented from Government and about £28 billion from local properties were of unacceptably poor quality: whilst it has yet to authorities’ own resources—has been spent bringing be completely eliminated, huge progress has been made, improving properties up to a decent standard. If we look at the the lives of millions of tenants…The main means by which standards, we can see a number of key factors. Incidentally, Government can ensure that standards of decency in social housing are maintained in future will be the regulatory framework I still get great delight from going into the homes of designed and implemented by the Tenant Services Authority. tenants, because in the end these are people’s homes. We That framework sets some important national standards but is can talk about thousands of houses and billions of not over-prescriptive”. pounds, but to the individual, it is their new bathroom That sets the context of a very successful programme. It or new kitchen. They have a sense of pride when they has not been fully implemented—it is not absolutely open the door and say, “Mr Betts, come and see my new complete—but it has improved the lives of millions of home. Isn’t it wonderful?” We get that sense of pride people. and a dream fulfilled with many people as a result of the works being carried out. The report went on to make comments about future regulation, which are probably redundant now, in the The standards for kitchens and bathrooms have been light of changes that the present Government have widely welcomed and well implemented. The repair made with regard to the Tenant Services Authority. standards, too, seem to have been well implemented. In However, the report also said: the middle of the programme, there was a change from “We have recommended another important extension to the the old fitness standards to the new housing health and existing decent homes criteria: the addition of a specific minimum safety rating system. That is a bit more complicated and standard for energy efficiency…Setting standards is of course no perhaps a bit more difficult to understand. I think that good, however, unless the means are available to achieve them.” there are problems for private landlords in understanding 149WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 150WH
[Mr Clive Betts] about the issue of energy. From the beginning, there was a feeling that the standards in the decent homes it. It is not as simple as the old system. For social programme were set rather low. All right, they are landlords, it should not be as difficult, and I do not minimum standards and could be added to, but we think that there has been a real problem with implementing really need to move on and address those minimum it in the social housing sector. It has been pretty well standards. integrated into the decent homes programme. The previous Government promised, through the When the Select Committee examined the standards household energy management strategy, to deal with in 2004, quite a lot of suggestions were made—such that. They promised that, by 2020, 7 million homes that suggestions were made again in our more recent report— did not have adequate loft or cavity wall insulation about what additional things might be included in the would get it. Effectively, there would be a warm homes decent homes programme. Noise insulation, particularly standard in the social sector that would almost be a in flats, was one. That has never been included, although decent homes-plus standard. We understand from the we can see reasons why it might be. There is always a current Government’s response—it would be helpful if temptation to go on and on trying to add things to the Minister could say a bit more about this—that those programmes. To have a pretty certain standard from the various initiatives have now been subsumed in the idea beginning, in 2001, and continue with it was probably of the green deal. It is not quite clear at this stage what the right thing to do. that will mean for social housing and private sector tenants and owner-occupiers in terms of bringing their Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Lack of noise homes up to a standard where they can feel comfortable insulation is an enormous problem, particularly in London, in them and can afford to heat them—bearing in mind where there are large numbers of council properties in the current and future increase in energy costs—and for converted Victorian houses. Often, the conversions were us as a nation in meeting the challenge of climate done to a less than acceptable standard, with a total change. lack of insulation between the properties, and it is very When the National Housing Federation did an estimate expensive to put in noise insulation at a later stage. Is of what it would need to do to get the emissions in its there any way in which we can ensure that future homes down to 20% of their current levels and to meet conversions include a very high standard of noise and the challenge of bringing down emissions by 80% by energy insulation from the beginning? 2050, it said that it would need to spend £25,000 on average on each housing association property in the Mr Betts: I am sure that there are ways to do that. country. It is a long-term challenge, and we need some The Committee concluded that, given that the decent indication from the Government that they have a strategy homes programme was running to a certain standard for national standards and for targets to be hit. I know from 2001, it was probably not the right thing to do to that the Government do not like targets very much, but try to add things halfway through the process. As the we have overall climate change targets. Perhaps we Government said at the time, they were basic standards should find a way forward by improving our energy but there was no reason why authorities should not add efficiency standards. to them. Indeed, for kitchens and bathrooms, my city When the Committee considered that, we felt that had the Sheffield standard, which went beyond the energy efficiency standards were the right way to go. national standard. Perhaps the other way in which the Certainly fuel poverty is a real problem, but once we try problem can be tackled—I may be corrected—is through to link the issue of fuel poverty with the standards in a building regulations. Perhaps there could be a legal building, real complications emerge. For example, we requirement to deal with the issue, rather than adding could get properties moving in and out of an appropriate something to the decent homes programme at this standard depending on the incomes of the people who stage, rather late in the day. live in the property, and that is an issue of which we Other issues that we considered were the environment, must be aware. the appearance of an estate as opposed to an individual As for the methods of achievement so far in the home, and communal areas, which have caused difficulties decent homes programme, stock transfer clearly dealt under the programme. By and large, where stock transfers with a lot of properties. Tenants voted to move to took place, housing associations could raise more private housing associations because the associations could finance and were able to cope with those issues. Where raise the money on the private markets and deliver the work was done within the authority, through the arm’s decent homes programmes that were required. Many length management organisations, often, on the other tenants resisted the idea of their homes moving environment, they were limited to 5% additional funding out of council ownership. The Government at the time in the programme, so all the environmental works and refused to give funding directly to councils for the communal area works that were needed were not necessarily decent homes programme; that was a matter of contention tackled. That perhaps needs to be addressed in the and I personally did not agree with that policy at the future, although in this case it is very difficult to be time. None the less, many tenants agreed to go with a prescriptive about national standards. transfer of management, but not ownership, to an arm’s An issue that we considered in some detail in both length management organisation. reports was energy standards. This is not merely a Social housing in this country has undergone a revolution. question of comfort for the individual living in their There has been an improvement not only in the home. It is a question of a national requirement, a public management of council housing and the delivery of need requirement, because of the need for the country major programmes, but in the management and delivery as a whole to meet the climate change challenges of performance of housing associations. I know that this is which we are all acutely aware. I shall say a few words sometimes an uncomfortable point for housing associations 151WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 152WH to address, but the report, on page 45, sets out clearly the answer; the answer would have been to put the that, when an assessment was done of the overall money directly into the estates that really needed it. performance of ALMOs, 75% had a good or excellent Lambeth has some desperately bad estates. They need rating. For housing associations, the figure was around the money and I am not sure that spending money just 35%. As for major works contributions and oversight, on ALMOs made any difference. 70% of ALMOs got a good or excellent rating and just over 50% of housing associations did so. ALMOs did Mr Betts: The evidence suggests that it probably did, very well indeed and some of the best ALMOs are but successes in general do not mean successes in every clearly some of the best performing housing organisations particular case. Clearly, there are some bad examples, in the country. and my hon. Friend has highlighted one from her constituency. Tenants should be free to choose their Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): Lewisham landlord, taking into account their own circumstances. Homes, which is the ALMO in my constituency, received If they want to revert back to council management, I a promise of £153 million from the Labour Government see no reason why they cannot do that. The Minister for decent homes work if it could reach the two-star may say a bit more about the funding possibilities. My rating. It achieved that rating in July, but now, under the understanding is that Government are now prepared to Tory-led Government, that money has been withdrawn put money directly into councils for the decent homes and the tenants of Lewisham Homes are extremely programme. To be even-handed and balanced, I would angry, frustrated and miserable that they cannot enjoy suggest that to say that there should be funding irrespective the same benefits of decent homes that other tenants in of who manages the houses is a helpful move. Where we Lewisham have. would disagree is over the amount of funding; there probably is not enough of it. At least Lambeth tenants Mr Betts: I thank my right hon. Friend for her now have the option to move back, if that is what they remarks. Clearly, a number of issues are intertwined in want. that problem. Under the Labour Government’s policy, Some authorities have seen ALMOs as a method of if an ALMO reached two stars or better, it would getting in the money, making the homes decent and automatically have access to the funding necessary to then having the properties transferred back to them. In bring its homes up to a decent standard. In the the end, what matters is not what the landlord or comprehensive spending review, the money available for councillors think but what the tenants think. The decent homes was cut by about 50%. Authorities that Government’s attitude so far is that when an authority have not completed their programmes are entitled to wants to bring back the management in-house, it should bid for funding, although if they have fewer than 10% of go through the same process that tenants went through their homes that are not decent at present, they are not to create the ALMO in the first place. However, I would likely to get any funding. If up to 20% of their homes welcome something a bit stronger. The management of are deemed not to be decent, they are likely to get only people’s homes is almost as important as the ownership, half the funding that they previously might have been so we should have a ballot to ensure that the proper will entitled to. of tenants is carried out into practice. As I understand it, as Lewisham Homes has not I have Sheffield Homes in my constituency, so I see a started its decent homes programme, it will still be different perspective. It is the only ALMO in the country entitled to bid for the total amount, but as the total is which has had three stars three times running. It has 50% less than it was, how much it will get is still open to improved the management and maintenance, reduced question. Perhaps the Minister will be able to address the costs and got tenants involved. There are still challenges that issue in his summing up. to be faced, such as moving on to a more co-operative To be fair to the Government—this is an interesting style of development in future. Sheffield Homes has matter of debate— they have relaxed the rule that only been successful; it can be built on for the future and not two-star ALMOs can get funding. That means that the reversed away from. At the end of the day, however, it is previous situation in which a tenant could be penalised a matter for the tenants. I would like to think that, if and not have the work done on their home because their there were any possibility of the council changing the landlord was not performing properly will be removed. management arrangements or the ownership arrangements, On the other hand, the requirement to have two stars as it would ballot the tenants, so that it will be the tenants’ a basic to obtain the funding has driven up housing views that are taken into account; that is what matters management standards as a whole, and therefore has at the end of the day. achieved considerable success. I have mentioned the reductions in capital funding as a result of the CSR. Work worth some £3.5 billion is Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): I would not want hon. still to be done to bring all social housing up to a decent Members to think that all ALMOs have been wonderful standard, and there will be about £1.6 billion in the successes. The ALMO in Lambeth, Lambeth Living, programme for the next four years. which narrowly got voted through by a tiny majority In other words, we are probably talking about 10 years after the council spent £1 million on it, has been pretty before all homes are brought up to a decent standard. much of a disaster. The chief executive is leaving this The Minister will, of course, say that councils can use weekend and the deputy left just before Christmas. The their own resources, and indeed Sheffield Homes and tenants in Lambeth are in a ridiculous situation. Their Sheffield city council are planning to do just that. The ALMO was going to get them a two-star rating. That real problem, however, is that if Sheffield Homes and did not happen, and the tenants are now left with huge Sheffield city council use all the funding they currently amounts of very bad housing with no one wanting to have to bring the remaining homes up to a decent do anything about it. The ALMO, therefore, was not standard by 2013-14, without additional Government 153WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 154WH
[Mr Betts] problem was that the new fitness standards in the private sector, which came in in the middle of the funding they will still be about 7% of homes short, programme, immediately added about 10% of private though by and large those will be properties on which sector homes to the number of non-decent homes. The people have not wanted the work done and others that analysis showed that 3 million private homes with vulnerable have become non-decent since 2010 because of their households were non-decent when the programme began: age. With every bit of Sheffield city council and Sheffield 40% were homes with private tenants, and 65% were Homes’ capital expenditure being used for that, there homes with owner-occupiers who were considered will be an end to all heating replacement programmes in vulnerable because of the benefits they received. Those other properties that are crying out to have their heating numbers are staggering. There was no general requirement replaced for energy efficiency and other reasons. Therefore, to get all those homes up to a decent standard—only to even when other money can be found, it will be at the do something to improve the numbers. While there expense of other important programmes. This is a probably has been some improvement in numbers, there three-star ALMO that has managed its money very well has not been the same drive and the same co-ordinated indeed. programme as there has been with social housing tenants. Other problems come from many owner-occupiers of On the decent homes standard, there has been a these homes not being able to afford the necessary challenge and, as the report clearly spells out, there is repairs. They are potentially asset rich but income poor, also a challenge for the future. There is no point in and that is a real challenge for them. bodies getting up to the standard if they then fall away from it. Another thing that we identified was the reform of the housing revenue account. I welcome, in principle, Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): the Government’s proposals to reform that account, to My hon. Friend rightly draws attention to the fact that give a say and control back to local authorities. The there is a housing standards problem in the private reform will give some certainty for the future, and is sector as well as in the public sector. based, with one or two changes, on the proposals that I wish him to reflect on the situation facing the previous Minister for Housing, my right hon. Friend Wolverhampton Homes, which is an ALMO that is a the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), little more than halfway through its decent homes introduced under the Labour Government. One of those programme. It was expecting, according to the expenditure changes is that councils will now not be allowed to keep trajectory, some £100 million over the next two years. It 100% of their right-to-buy receipts. There will also be has been estimated that if that were to fall by 40%, extra borrowing controls, which are slightly worrying in 5,000 non-decent homes would be left in the city in the that they will constraint councils’ ability to expand their public sector, let alone in the private sector, and there resources to maintain homes to a decent standard. On would have to be hundreds of redundancies. What kind the other hand, the removal of the need for rents to of economic or social sense can that make, halfway converge might provide a bit more flexibility in rent through a programme in a city with one of the highest increases. I am not talking about the rents necessarily unemployment rates in the country? increasing to 80% of market rents, but councils that have put in a new heating system or insulation measures Mr Betts: To my mind, it makes no sense at all, and it that reduce tenants’ heating bills, could put a bit extra means asking people to remain in non-decent properties on the rent. The tenants would contribute to the cost, for a long time. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. but would probably pay less overall under the joint In many ways it is the tenants who have been waiting arrangement between landlord and tenant. That bit of the longest for the work who will now have to wait even flexibility might be welcome. longer: people at the back of the queue will find the We have taken expert advice, which has indicated that head of the queue disappearing, and that is very worrying. under the Labour Government’s proposals the major At the rate of spending currently proposed by the repairs allowance in the housing revenue account was Government, it could be 2020 before the backlog is due to rise by about 25%. We understand that this cleared, remembering, of course, that the backlog will Government also propose that, but we have not yet seen be added to because in the meantime more homes will the precise figures. To maintain homes at a decent fall into the non-decent category, through age or increasing standard, and in particular to keep repairs up to a disrepair. Unless we get increased public spending, the proper standard and replace the sanitary and kitchen problem will be compounded rather than improved. fittings that were included under the decent homes Another issue that we need to consider is the very programme but would have worn out, the figures show worrying decline in construction activity in the last that a 40% to 60% increase in the major repairs allowance quarter of last year—the weather might have had a bit is needed, not the 25% proposed. It is worrying that to do with it. Cutting back on the decent homes programme, there is an inbuilt disrepair element in both the previous which is more labour intensive than building new homes Government’s proposal and that of this Government, is, because pro rata more labour than materials goes and that sufficient funding might not be available to into refurbishment than into construction, means even maintain the standards. Any future Government will more job losses for every £1 million that is cut from the have to address that challenge. programme. Other Members want to speak, so I shall conclude with some remarks on the private sector. The private Jeremy Corbyn: On the private sector, 30% of my sector was added to the decent homes programme as an constituents live in private rented accommodation. I afterthought, and it is often forgotten that it exists at cannot give the figure for properties that do not meet all. It was not there at the beginning, in 2001, and decent homes standards, but I suspect that it is a adding it in has not been a great success. One fundamental considerable number. I expect that many landlords are 155WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 156WH loth to do necessary repairs and maintenance, so the of energy efficiency, it is also about doing something to condition of the properties rapidly deteriorates. They improve standards. There is still a long way to go in the know that there will be a market out there in the future. private sector, because the decent homes programme Does the Select Committee see any way in which we can really has not had a major impact there. bring in better regulation to ensure both fair rents and To conclude, the Committee said, “We congratulate decent standards in the private sector? the Government”—the last Government, I should add— “on its achievements so far in the decent homes programme. Mr Betts: There are ways, and some of them have Notwithstanding the difficulties of the current public sector been rejected by the Government, but I do not think spending climate and the importance of continuing to make that the decent homes standard is necessarily one of progress towards eliminating the remaining backlog, however, them because it was not enforceable. That is probably now is the time to build on those achievements, not to sit back on one reason why it did not really succeed. The new them. The Government needs to look beyond the existing decent fitness standards are an improvement, and are tougher, homes programme and plan for a future in which social tenants, private tenants and owner-occupiers all have the opportunity of but the problem is that many authorities do not put the living in a warm, well-maintained and reasonably well-equipped resources into the private sector to ensure that the home.” standards are implemented in a co-ordinated way. There I think that is a reasonable point on which to finish. should be a strategy for private housing in every local authority area, but many local authorities do not have one, and co-ordinated enforcement action is rarely taken 3.1 pm in many parts of the country. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Thank The Rugg report into the private sector proposed that you very much, Mr Bone, for calling me to speak in this we should have a register of all private sector landlords, important debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for but the Government have said that they are not going to Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), who opened the debate. go ahead with that. There were also proposals to have He is very knowledgeable on this subject, which he has licensing of managing and letting agents, but the spoken on for many years, and he is clearly a fount of Government have said that they are not going to go substantial knowledge. ahead with that either. The possibility of regulation is, The hon. Gentleman rightly drew attention to a therefore, probably disappearing. The previous number of matters, such as the respective performance Government’s proposal for the household energy of ALMOS and housing associations. There is an issue management strategy, which was going to cover all for housing associations regarding their performance. sectors, has been taken away and replaced by the green Originally, the idea was that local authorities were not deal. particularly responsive, because they were large and The Government have said that there will be proposals managed large numbers of properties. Therefore, people that reasonable tenant requests for energy efficiency thought that housing associations should take on local improvements should not be refused, and proposals for authorities’ role as they would be more responsive. minimum benchmarks for energy efficiency in properties, Many Members may now feel that many of the problems but there were caveats about them being subject to the that were associated with local authorities are associated availability of funding. I do not know how far the with housing associations, given their size and the Government are prepared to go on that but, along with geographic extent of the areas they cover. The hon. the repair requirements, it is a starting point for putting Gentleman was right to highlight that. He was also some basic energy efficiency requirements into private right to highlight the importance of tackling issues in sector homes, which could be done separately. the private sector, where the housing stock is often By and large, we concluded in our report that it unacceptable. would be difficult simply to take decent homes from the Before I focus on what is happening in relation to social sector and transfer them to the private sector, but Sutton and the Sutton Housing Partnership, I want to under the new homeless provisions, landlords will be make one political point. Opposition Members need a able to discharge their obligations to homeless families reality check, and they should acknowledge that the by allocating not social housing but a property in the situation the coalition Government are in is very similar private rented sector. If homeless families can be allocated to the one they would have been in had they been such properties by local authorities, are the Government elected. It is not, therefore, good enough simply to say prepared to do something about the standards of those that the coalition Government’s proposals for reducing properties? They should not allow any council to put a budgets are unacceptable; there must be an alternative family in a private rented property unless it meets very proposal. The Labour party would have been in the high standards indeed. Some form of regulation would same place and it would have had to work within the be another way we could seek to drive up standards. same boundaries—they would perhaps not have been I have spoken for a while and taken interventions. As exactly the same—as the coalition Government. It would I have explained, the report was generally congratulatory have faced the same challenges, so simply bemoaning as regards the success of the decent homes programme, the fact that budget reductions have to happen is not but we recognised that this is also about individual good enough. In seeking to position themselves as a tenants. For the many thousands who are satisfied, a future Government, the Opposition owe it to everyone substantial number are still waiting for work to be who reads the report of this debate to come forward carried out, as my hon. Friends have indicated, and they with some solutions, rather than simply bemoaning the are now likely to have to wait even longer. position we are in. There are challenges, and we need to ensure that Mr McFadden: It is a matter not just of the total standards are maintained—it is a question not just of amount of spending, but of the profile of the spending achieving standards, but of maintaining them. In terms that is being cut. My local ALMO, Wolverhampton 157WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 158WH
[Mr McFadden] onwards. However, there was no guarantee about what would happen to the remainder of the £112 million that Homes, fears that the cuts will be front-loaded and that Sutton Housing Partnership was seeking under the it will be in the ludicrous position of having to lay off decent homes programme. She is right that limited hundreds of people when it might be looking to hire funding was made available after heavy lobbying, but more in a couple of years’ time. It will not be able to do that was all that was on offer to Sutton Housing Partnership. things in a balanced way. That would not have happened under a Labour Government; we would have supported I like to think that I am reasonably fair in these a programme that is providing important employment debates, and I do not want to give Opposition Members in my city, as well as improving the homes for tenants, the impression that everything will now proceed apace who, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South under the coalition Government. Clearly, we face many East (Mr Betts) said, have been waiting far too long. of the same funding challenges as the previous Government. Yes, this is a matter of public spending levels, but it is Sutton Housing Partnership has had to adjust its bid also a matter of the profile of the cuts, which is adding downwards to £84 million. As the hon. Member for to the difficulties of ALMOs that are trying to carry out Sheffield South East said, it is a two-star ALMO, and it the decent homes programme. worked hard with tenants, councillors and Members of Parliament to achieve two-star status. It made the necessary Tom Brake: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that investment, thereby demonstrating that it has the capacity intervention, but he has simply restated the Opposition’s to deliver its programme. It is now bidding with ALMOs stance that the profiling is different. That does not that do not have two-star status, and its tenants and I really help to define in what way his party would have feel uncomfortable about that, given that it put so much tackled the issue if it had been in power. Simply saying effort in over so many years to achieve two-star status. that this is to do with profiles does not actually help residents in his area to have some clarity. The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Joan Ruddock: Obviously, the hon. Gentleman’s ALMO Shapps): Is my hon. Friend aware that there is no and mine are in a similar position. Mine has just put in profiling or front-loading in respect of the decent homes a bid for £128 million. However, is he aware that, funding in this spending period? although the national pot of money is £1.6 billion—the Minister may wish to confirm that—London alone Tom Brake: I thank the Minister for that intervention, needs £2.5 billion? What hope does the hon. Gentleman’s and the right hon. Gentleman may want to consider ALMO or mine have in the present situation? He is that point. wrong to say that the Labour Government would have I want now to focus on the position in the London done the same thing. We said we wanted to halve the borough of Sutton and to run briefly through some of deficit in the period in which the coalition want to the history. Sutton’s ALMO, the Sutton Housing clear it. Partnership, was one of the ALMOs that achieved two-star status only very late in the day under the previous Government. It had achieved one-star status and was on track to achieve two-star status when the Tom Brake: I know that the right hon. Lady’s previous Prime Minister announced that his Government Government would apparently have halved the deficit were going to build 20,000 new homes. As Members in the same time frame in which we are getting rid of it. may recall, it then emerged that that would be achieved That, of course, would have had interesting consequences by reallocating funds from ALMOs that were about to in relation to the level of interest that the nation would receive funding for the decent homes programme. When continue to pay in the second Parliament, beyond 2015. Sutton Housing Partnership achieved two-star status To return to the issue of Sutton Housing Partnership, under the previous Government, it found that it would I agree that our ALMOs are in the same position, which not get decent homes funding because of the previous is a difficult one. I hope that the Minister will this Prime Minister’s announcement. Let us not say, therefore, afternoon deal with some of the issues that the ALMO that everything that is happening now is wrong, while faces. First, there is the question of getting everyone everything that happened before was acceptable, because together, reforming the ALMO and getting the buy-in it was not. Under the previous Government, some of tenants to achieve that two-star status, and then ALMOs did not receive the funding that they had been finding that they are competing with everyone else for offered. the available funding. Also important in Sutton is negative Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): A number subsidy. We have always argued—and I welcome the of London ALMOs were in the same situation as reform of the housing revenue account—that if Sutton’s Sutton, including one I know in Redbridge. It is my tenants were allowed simply to have the money that understanding—I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman they pay in rents reinvested in the housing stock, there accepts this—that certain funds were forthcoming from would not be a need for Government funding. With the the previous Government. They may not have been the £10 million of tenants’ money that is exported to other amounts, or provided as quickly as, the hon. Gentleman parts of the country, if I may put it that way, resulting, would have liked, but funds nevertheless actually made as my ALMO would say, in a situation in which the their way to Sutton’s ALMO. nearly poor subsidise the really poor, and the money that could be borrowed against that revenue stream, the Tom Brake: Indeed. I thank the hon. Lady for her ALMO could address the issues about decent homes intervention, and that was going to be my next sentence. with its own resources, without falling back on Government I was going to say that £5 million—a limited amount funding. I hope that that will happen and that tenants of funding—was to be made available from April 2010 will be able to benefit—and that they will not be penalised 159WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 160WH in a different way, by having to pick up a proportion of and kitchen replaced. He was clearly delighted, especially the debt, which would mean that even if they kept the as his wife is disabled, and he showed us the special revenue they would still not benefit from it. walk-in shower that had been provided. Sutton Housing Partnership is looking to adjust its Prior to the general election I conducted extensive programme to try to maximise the chance of getting surveys asking my constituents for their views on access to the funding. One specific issue that affects a the modernisations and improvements carried out to large number of homes— something like 750—is the their homes, including bathrooms and kitchens. The box bathrooms on the St. Helier estate. The estate was overwhelming majority were happy with the improvements. built in the 1930s and box bathrooms were subsequently They also welcomed being given a choice of fittings and built on to the back of the properties. Many are now design. That is a far cry from my days as a councillor in completely inadequate. They contain asbestos and they the early ‘80s as a member of the housing committee on are falling away from the properties, so that gaps are Stockport metropolitan borough council. I well remember developing between the property and the box bathrooms. a long discussion in one committee about the policy on They are poorly insulated and need to be replaced. In pot sinks. It appeared that tenants had been deliberately many cases, given that the houses are terraced, they can damaging the sinks in order to get modern stainless be replaced only by using a large crane to move the old steel replacements. The council’s view was that that bad box bathrooms out over the properties and new ones to behaviour should not be rewarded, and damaged sinks the back of them. Sutton Housing Partnership is trying should be replaced with pot sinks to discourage such to split off that matter so that it can get access to the behaviour, albeit at greater expense. Things are very decent homes funding for the other works and perhaps different now from those days. find a separate way to fund the box bathrooms. In its comments to me about the Select Committee’s We would all accept that our housing stock is in need report, Stockport Homes has drawn attention to the of substantial investment. It is fair to say that all importance of improving communal areas. It has done Governments have neglected that in recent decades. We a lot to improve communal areas around its properties, need collectively to find a way to raise the required on top of the decent homes standard. The work has investment. In 2011 everyone should be able to live in a included hard and soft landscaping schemes, fencing property of a decent standard. I should like to think and seating, installing CCTVs, painting, floor covering that at the end of this Parliament, and the end of the and lighting in communal areas and replacing lifts. first term of the coalition Government, that will be Those programmes of work, which fell outside the achievable for us. minimum standard, were in response to consultations with local people. I agree with the local people and Stockport Homes that the improvement of the communal 3.14 pm areas, whether that is landscaping, car parking, security measures or creating community meeting places around Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve people’s homes, is very important in creating a feel-good under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I welcome the factor for people about where they live. It is also important, report of the Select Committee on Communities and of course, to keep local people and tenants groups Local Government, “Beyond Decent Homes”, which engaged, so that the tenants can feel that such improvements was published in March 2010 under the chairmanship are delivered in the agreed time scale and there is good of Dr Phyllis Starkey. communication between tenants groups and Stockport Homes. There is no doubt that the decent homes programme introduced under the Labour Government in 2002 was In Stockport we used to have an estate called Gorsey successful in bringing many improvements to the homes Bank, which failed and has since been bulldozed in spite of social tenants. Stockport Homes, my local ALMO, of an extensive modernisation programme. The reason has been one of the trailblazers in delivering the decent for the failure was the lack of provision of a supportive homes programme. Indeed, members of the Select environment, such as good landscaping, adequate security Committee visited properties managed by Stockport and, especially, community space to deliver services to Homes in my constituency as part of their inquiry. They disadvantaged families, as well as local provision to deal also held an evidence session in Stockport town hall. with antisocial behaviour. In the 1990s, Lancashire Hill, Stockport Homes was chosen for a visit because Dr Starkey which is now in my constituency, was extensively modernised said it was and at that time there was a huge improvement for tenants in their living conditions. However, inadequate “a successful, high performing ALMO pioneering a range of communal space was provided as part of that modernisation innovative strategies to upgrade their social housing stock”. and it is now difficult to provide support to families on In my constituency at the time of the 2001 census, the estate for activities that would make a difference to which is somewhat out of date, 21% of households were children’s lives. The experiences on those two estates in housing with social landlords. Social housing is therefore underline the importance of communal improvements an important provision for my constituents. Stockport in any decent homes programme. Homes currently manages 11,478 properties for Stockport I also want to draw the attention of the House to the council and has now reached the decent homes standard Stockport Homes family intervention project. [Interruption.] on 100% of its homes. In fact, it has consistently gone further than the basic decent homes standards. It has Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): Order. I am sorry to included showers as a standard bathroom improvement, interrupt the hon. Lady. The danger with electronic floor and wall tiling, full redecoration, smoke alarms, devices in the Chamber is that they interfere with the double glazed windows and extra electrical sockets. I microphones. Perhaps right hon. and hon. Members visited one of my constituents, Mr Alfred Heathcote could make sure they do not have an electronic device from Brinnington, last year after he had his bathroom too near the microphone. 161WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 162WH
Ann Coffey: That project is for families with complex I am sure that we all agree that the decent homes needs who risk being evicted for antisocial behaviour or programme has improved the quality of life of many other reasons. Often, a family evicted from one property families in this country. I am keen for it to be maintained simply moves to a property in another area, usually and strengthened by ongoing funding. People on low taking their problems with them and disturbing another incomes have little choice in their housing, so it is community. important that the homes that they are offered are of a decent standard, have sustainable energy costs and are Since the project started, it has had 34 referrals, 15 of situated in a decent environment. Sadly, Stockport has which have met the criteria and been taken on. Eight a shortage of social housing, particularly family housing; families have signed up to a full contract, a behaviour 7,626 people are on the waiting list. It also has a support agreement signed by the agencies and each shortage of affordable homes to buy, creating more family member. The Stockport Homes intervention project reliance on privately rented accommodation. Such housing works with other agencies to provide families with is overwhelmingly provided by landlords who own a few support such as parenting classes, help finding training properties. Indeed, in my constituency, some of those or work, drugs and alcohol help, domestic violence properties are former council houses bought under the help, social care referral and support for teenage parents. right to buy scheme and then sold on. The project has successfully closed two contracts after achieving excellent results: reduced antisocial behaviour, I understand that we do not want to increase costs to better integration into the community, better parenting private landlords, due to concerns that if regulations skills, reduced domestic violence and increased school make rented property too expensive for landlords to attendance. For families needing a fresh start away from provide at a reasonable profit, such accommodation the area, the project can set up a family intervention will dry up. However, there must be a proper balance tenancy somewhere else. It provides intense support, between decent standards and profits. It cannot be right including daily visits for the first month and strict rules that, due to a lack of social housing and affordable about complying with advice and assistance. The overall homes to buy, families should be forced to live in rented results include quieter, safer communities and a new homes in the private sector, some of which do not reach chance for families to thrive in a different area. decent standards. I welcome the Minister’s comments on that. I draw the project to the House’s attention because it Where we live is important to us all. Some of us have is an example of an innovative approach to housing more choice in deciding than others. It is only right that management that recognises that dealing with the behaviour we should support the efforts of ALMOs such as Stockport of a minority of tenants and the consequences for the Homes to provide the best possible environments for wider community will be effective only if the underlying those who have little or no choice in their housing. I causes of that behaviour are addressed. Housing look forward to such a commitment from the Minister. management can never involve merely repairing properties and collecting rent. Achieving decent living standards for tenants and the wider community goes much further. Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): Before I call the next speaker, it might be helpful for me to tell Members that In its comments on the Select Committee report, I will call them in the order in which they notified the Stockport Homes said: Chair that they wish to speak. Members who have not notified the Chair will be called at the end. It is normal “Although we acknowledge the conclusion of the report that practice to notify the Chair in advance. there was a need to keep the Decent Homes standard narrow, it could be argued that the emphasis on the fabric of the housing stock and internal components is too narrow. The lack of a 3.25 pm standard for communal areas, estate improvements and energy efficiency measures could be seen as missed opportunities which Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): I now need to be addressed.” want to speak primarily from my experiences as a new I agree totally, and welcome the Minister’s comments MP for Wolverhampton. I dare say that some of my on the importance of communal areas and energy efficiency sentiments may be echoed by the right hon. Member for measures to the decent homes standard. Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), who mentioned the Wolverhampton arm’s length management I also agree with the Select Committee report about organisation that we both know. Right hon. and hon. the importance of the green agenda and the call for the Members will be pleased to know that I intend to make decent homes standard for energy efficiency to be updated. my speech brief, as I am sure that others have contributions The Government’s carbon emissions reduction targets to make. mean that the entire UK housing stock must be made One of our primary goals as a Government is to more energy efficient. The decent homes standards have move power away from Whitehall, out across the country an important part to play and should be updated to to individual councils and cities and to the people who enable that. know what is best for their own communities. That is Stockport Homes has been proactive in its green why it is so hard to speak about widespread national agenda. As a result of substantial investment in energy programmes such as decent homes. Different local efficiency measures, the ALMO is in the top 1% of the factors—local economies, local councils and local needs— standard assessment procedure ratings, which calculate always play a part. I cannot comment on the programme the energy performance of individual dwellings. That is as a whole, but I know that Wolverhampton needs especially important for social housing, as most tenants decent homes. are on low incomes, meaning that their heating bills The decent homes programme in Wolverhampton is form a large proportion of their income. They also face carried out by Wolverhampton Homes, an ALMO doing increases in their energy bills. good work in our community. I have had the opportunity 163WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 164WH to meet its representatives and see some of its programmes and Quadrant, and Affinity Sutton, and thousands at first hand. Removing the ALMO’s ability to complete more are benefiting from improvement works being the job that it has started would create a great deal of carried out by Phoenix, a new community-led housing difficulty for Wolverhampton. Not only is Wolverhampton association. Homes updating houses in need of repair, it is providing However, many of my constituents, particularly those jobs in a city with a high unemployment rate. It has also who have remained local authority tenants, are still started an apprenticeship programme that has been waiting in the hope that, at some point, it will be their training more than 60 apprentices a year. turn to see their flats, houses and estates turned into One of the main factors driving me to contribute to places where they feel proud to live, and where decades this debate is that I have met many of those apprentices of under-investment can be put right. I want to focus on and had conversations with them. Since the new year, how we can achieve a decent place to live for those who many young people have told me their personal stories are still waiting, not just in my constituency, but in the of being involved in apprenticeships. I have been deeply borough of Lewisham as a whole and in London more touched by those experiences; they are similar to my generally. own. It is often that first spark that sets somebody on a path by encouraging them and giving them the opportunity Having a decent home is something that many of us to pursue a career. Whatever way they take, that first take for granted. It was rightly the ambition of the step is the most difficult and important. previous Government to ensure that everyone had a decent home and that those organisations delivering huge Wolverhampton Homes has also given the tenants housing investment programmes were fit for purpose— that it is helping a way to be involved with the decisions efficient, well-run and well-managed organisations that that will affect them. Several of the tenants of affected could cope with the complexities of multi-million pound homes serve on the board of Wolverhampton Homes. capital projects. Wolverhampton has undeniably been through tough times, and it is struggling. We appreciate that that is not When I first became a councillor in 2004, Lewisham’s specific to Wolverhampton; the country as a whole is housing service, as it was then, could not be described in facing a financial problem. However, will the Minister that way. I represented a ward in which 70% of the think carefully? Having met the apprentices and seen population rented their homes from either the council the good work being done by Wolverhampton Homes, I or a housing association, and day in, day out, I came ask him to take time to look at the issue holistically. As across an attitude that can only be described as, “The a Conservative Government in coalition, we want people computer says no.” I sat in evening after evening of to have dignity and pride in their communities and tenant and resident association meetings, being told by work together to make that happen and make the people that they were ashamed to invite friends around nation a better place to live. What better place to begin to their flat, not because they did not have a reasonably than in their own homes? modern kitchen or bathroom, but because they were embarrassed to ask their friends to walk up eight flights of foul-smelling stairs when the lift had broken down. 3.29 pm They were embarrassed by the broken communal doorways, Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): I am pleased the peeling paint in the corridor, the broken windows to follow the thoughtful speech of the hon. Member for and the leaking roof. Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal). It is probably Although Lewisham’s new ALMO has got to grips one of the most thoughtful contributions that I have with the culture of the old housing services and, indeed, heard from a Government Member in my time here. I with some of the housing management challenges, I am congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield ashamed to say that some of the conditions on estates South East (Mr Betts) on his thoughtful and knowledgeable in my constituency resemble what I have just described. opening remarks. I have the pleasure of serving under It is not right that people in the 21st century have to live his chairmanship on the Communities and Local this way. Sometimes, a new kitchen, a new bathroom or Government Committee, and I am pleased to be able to new windows are not going to make the sort of changes make a contribution to the debate on “Beyond Decent that are needed. Heathside and Lethbridge is a ’60s Homes”, which was published before I joined the estate of nearly 600 properties on the edge of Lewisham Committee. town centre, and the only real answer is to knock it I am also pleased to be taking part in today’s debate down and start again. However, Government cuts to the because, precisely eight months ago today, when I spoke Homes and Communities Agency budget put the future for the first time in the House of Commons as the newly phases of that redevelopment in doubt. The council has elected MP for Lewisham East, I pressed the Government been working hard with its development partner to get on when we would have the chance to debate the future the regeneration programme started, and the new funding of the decent homes programme. I did not Government must step up to the plate and find the think that it would take eight months to get to this funds to ensure that future phases can be built out. If stage, but I hope that it will be worth the wait. they do not, they will condemn hundreds of residents to For many of my constituents, having a decent place a life in completely substandard accommodation. The to call home is still more of an aspiration than a reality. situation is the same with Milford Towers and Excalibur, Many people in my constituency—in places such as which are smaller estates in my constituency, but whose Catford, Downham, Grove Park and Blackheath—live needs are no less pressing or complicated. in homes that do not meet the decent homes standard. Although regeneration funding is incredibly important Thanks to the previous Labour Government, thousands for many areas of Lewisham, so too is the amount of of properties in my constituency are in the process of money that the Government will make available to local being upgraded by housing associations, such as London authority landlords to carry out decent homes works. 165WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 166WH
[Heidi Alexander] Heidi Alexander: I do appreciate the hon. Lady’s well-made point. The ability of organisations to deliver That was an issue that my right hon. Friend the Member complex capital projects is an issue. Although the assessment for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) raised earlier, process for two stars may not be perfect and although and it is the issue to which I will now turn. the hon. Lady’s ALMO may be completely capable of I have already touched on the transformation that delivering such a programme, we have to be careful has taken place in our local ALMO. It has been a long, about where money goes. I appreciate that times are hard slog for the board, and I pay tribute to the resident difficult for her tenants and that she would like to see chair, Julia Cotton, and the chief executive, Andrew investment in their homes as much as I would like to see Potter, for bringing about that change. However, as a it in those of my constituents. result of the Government’s announcement in the comprehensive spending review, Lewisham Homes finds Kate Hoey: On the question of cost and complex itself facing increasing uncertainty about the amount of projects, one of the things that residents on many of our money that it will receive to carry out desperately estates continually comment upon when they see the needed works. Of the ALMO’s 13,000 tenanted homes, capital projects is the number of hugely expensive 7,300 do not meet the decency standard. consultants that seem to be employed on ridiculous salaries. On the cost of doing some of these quite small In March 2010, the previous Government indicated projects on small estates, does my hon. Friend think that £154 million would be made available to Lewisham that the new coalition Government should look at new Homes to carry out the decent homes programme if it ways of getting the money to get the windows on an met the two-star rating, which, I should say, it achieved estate done in a way that does not involve these grotesque last summer. However, last October, as part of the CSR, salaries that seem to go to everyone? this Government insisted that local authority landlords would have to fund 10% of all outstanding improvement Heidi Alexander: I completely share my hon. Friend’s works themselves. Lewisham’s bid has therefore been concerns about that and I press the Government to look reduced to £126 million, to be spread over four years at new ways of making sure that public money is used in from April this year. Like many other ALMOs and the best way possible. My experience on Lewisham local authorities throughout the country, we are waiting council—indeed, I was also a member of the Lewisham to hear the outcome of our bid. Homes board for a year—showed me that the right My biggest fear—my right hon. Friend touched upon skills need to be in place to make sure that programmes this—is that Lewisham Homes will not get anywhere are delivered effectively and efficiently. I am not saying near the amount of money that it needs. In the CSR, that things cannot change in that respect and that the Government announced £1.6 billion to meet the money cannot be saved, but clearly people need to have outstanding decent homes requirements of local authority the right clienting skills to get the most out of the landlords. London local authorities alone estimate that contract. their outstanding investment need is £2.5 billion. London has 46% of the 150,000 homes identified by the Government Jeremy Corbyn: I understand the point that my hon. last year as eligible for that funding. Therefore, even if Friend is making, and I pay tribute to those ALMOs London gets 46% of the overall sum, £736 million is a and councils that are well run, deliver good programmes, long way off £2.5 billion. I must therefore question have got their two-star rating and are obviously improving whether Lewisham will get £126 million of that money. things. The point made by the hon. Member for Lewisham Homes has also received scant recognition Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) is, nevertheless, important: for its work in achieving a two-star rating from the by restricting ourselves to investing where there is a Audit Commission. As the hon. Member for Carshalton two-star rating, we are actually punishing the tenants and Wallington (Tom Brake) has said, the Government’s and the residents. There needs to be some thought current approach does not seem to take account of all about how one can still deliver a programme either by the hard work put in by ALMOs that have achieved the some other means or by forcing the authorities to be two-star status. I think that that says to those people, more efficiently run and so on. I am not advocating “Tough luck—you’re now lumped back into the mix, throwing money away or bad management; I am advocating just like everyone else.” recognising that our duty as public servants is to the tenants and to the residents. We need to ensure that Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): I understand public money is invested in them and think carefully what the hon. Lady is saying about the two-star rating about the matter. and, listening to this debate, I can see both sides of the argument on the two stars. However, I represent part of Heidi Alexander: My hon. Friend makes some good the borough of Charnwood, in which Charnwood points, and I am sure that he will appreciate my role as a Neighbourhood Housing is the ALMO. It has struggled representative of Lewisham. I know what effort has for a long time to get to its two-star rating. Under the been put in by my local residents, by the members of the previous Labour-controlled local administration, it had board and by the staff who have worked incredibly no stars. We are now up to one star, and are trying very hard. They feel very disappointed by the fact that hard to get to two. The difficulty with the hon. Lady’s although they have put in a huge amount of effort, that argument is that the tenants, through no fault of their will not necessarily give them a greater chance of accessing own—the problems with management are not their funds. fault—have lost out on any investment over the past If I can move on, I shall say something about the 13 years in relation to decent homes. Now they are in particular situation that we face in London. In the round six and still face receiving less money. Does she capital, we have the potential problem of higher unit appreciate that point? costs—by that, I mean that it would perhaps cost more 167WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 168WH to bring an individual property up to standard in London but somebody living in the equivalent in Lewisham than it would elsewhere in the country. That is because probably will not have done. Why not? It is simply of the cost of construction labour in the capital and the unfair. The Labour Government put the money in for fact that a number of homes are of a non-standard both those tenants to achieve the necessary standard. construction type. Anyone who looks at the skyline in We need to think about that. London will see a large number of high-rises. Such buildings can cost a lot of money to bring up to the Having said that, the Government should think carefully decent homes standard. I am hoping that the Minister about the long-term implications of the comprehensive appreciates those regional subtleties and that he will spending review, the cuts that have been imposed and give me some assurance that such issues will be taken the problems that that will build up for future. I was a into account when the applications are considered. councillor in Haringey before I became a Member of Parliament. During the 1980s, we started the process Before I finish, I shall touch on the importance of the of a post-1948 programme and improved properties proposed reform of the housing revenue account annual considerably in both Haringey and Islington, where I subsidy system. The way in which historic debt is allocated became the MP. Gradually, central government money to local authorities is very important and must be dried up, and the repairs and capital improvements addressed as part of the reform. The ability of ALMOs budgets were cut back and back. We reached a situation and councils to meet the decent homes standard and to where the only repairs being done were in cases where continue to meet those standards as some homes fall the tenant threatened legal action or took the council to out of decency—as mentioned earlier—will be determined court to require repairs to be done. It was essentially a by how we allocate that debt and resolve the issue of solicitor’s process. If someone could convince a court or HRA reform. I do not claim to be an expert on the a solicitor somewhere that their case was strong enough, matter and I can only begin to imagine how incredibly the repairs would be done. It was a ludicrous way of complex it must be to try to reform it but, for areas such doing things. By the mid-1990s, the repair backlog was as mine that have significant investment needs and a absolutely massive, as my hon. Friend the Member for large amount of housing stock, it is too important to Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) pointed out in introducing get wrong. the report. I could say much more on the matter—not least about standards in the private rented sector, which now The decent homes standard is, by and large, a very accounts for a third of all households, as it does in the big success story in that it has meant that millions of constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Islington people have now got decent kitchens and bathrooms, North (Jeremy Corbyn)—but I am conscious of the roofs that do not leak, new windows that are energy time and the fact that other hon. Members want to efficient and often new heating systems and many other speak. In conclusion, I urge Ministers to reconsider the things. Again, on the point that my hon. Friend the amount of money that has been allocated to the future Member for Lewisham East made, the specific inclusion programme. I ask them not to forget the importance of of communal areas and common parts in the decent comprehensive estate regeneration schemes—new kitchens homes standard programme has meant that whole estates and bathrooms are all well and good, but sometimes the have improved a great deal. The Andover estate in my problems of an area cannot be solved by such things constituency was not terribly well designed in the first alone. Finally, in moving beyond decent homes, my plea place—as, indeed, many estates all around the country is this: do not walk on by areas such as mine, where were not—but with intelligence and sympathetic ideas significant need so blatantly exists and where investment and investment in the common areas, that estate is can really change people’s lives. now far better than it ever was. It has a decent open square area in the middle, better play facilities and good quality security. In return, levels of vandalism and 3.44 pm socially divisive issues are much reduced. Investment Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I thank the does pay off. Select Committee for the report and pay tribute to Dr Phyllis Starkey, who unfortunately is no longer a If a huge backlog of repairs will be building up Member of the House, for the work she put into chairing during the next five years or so, I dread to think what the Select Committee in the last Parliament, the quality that will do to the self-perception of people living in of the report and the information in it. those areas or, indeed, to the condition of the flats they are living in. Cutting housing repairs and housing capital Hon. Members will have heard what I said about the improvement budgets is a self-defeating prospect. At way in which the decent homes standard was brought in the lowest level, if one does not clean out the gutters, under conditionality of local authorities. We need to eventually the roof gets rotten, starts to leak and so it think about that process a bit more for the future goes on. Money spent on maintenance and repairs is because it seems grossly unfair that those authorities, money well spent. such as Camden, that did not agree to establishing an ALMO or to stop transfers were punished as a result, I obviously represent an inner urban area. The make-up with the necessary resources coming in much later. I of my constituency is the mirror opposite to that of absolutely endorse what my hon. Friend the Member most of the rest of the country—the same would apply for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) has said about to the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for how Lewisham appears to have been punished because Lewisham East—in that about 40% of the stock is it essentially achieved the right stars on the wrong date. council or housing association, about 30% is private The process is as arbitrary as that. The issue of the date rented and about 30% is owner-occupied. The fastest and so on does not make a blind bit of difference. The fall is in owner occupations and the fastest rise is in reality is that somebody living in Islington in a two-bedroom private rented. Within the private-rented sector, there high-rise flat will have achieved decent homes standard, are the most incredible levels of demand. 169WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 170WH
[Jeremy Corbyn] The Select Committee report says quite a lot about the private-rented sector. The history of that sector in There are also issues with leaseholders, from both this country is a particularly chequered one. The Labour housing associations and local authorities—I take the Governments of the ’60s and ’70s sought registration, point that my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall rent control and a degree of national standards in the (Kate Hoey) was making—who sometimes feel quite private-rented sector. The tenor of the Conservative justified in their grievance that the amount of money Government of 1979 was against any kind of intervention spent on capital works on a block seems wholly in anything. The results included a property boom, disproportionate to the benefit achieved from it. I never privatisation, the sale of a lot of council properties and expected to become such an expert on the cost of landlords’ freedom to charge whatever they wished. renting cherry pickers, scaffolding and skips, and on the Now, in order to adhere to national law on housing cost of sink units, windows and all that kind of thing. I homeless families, local authorities have absolutely no do not mind that I am; I am quite happy to develop a choice but to place those families in the private rented knowledge and expertise in that area, but an awful lot of sector. They have a legal obligation to house people. No leaseholders have an incredibly close knowledge of such London council still puts people in bed and breakfasts—as matters and they feel that they are being ripped off. far as I know, anyway. Instead, they put them in the There are all kinds of appeal procedures that cost private rented sector, which is expensive, often inadequate everyone a great deal of money. Sometimes there needs and sometimes nowhere near the community from which to be much tighter monitoring of these contracts to those families come. The bill is usually paid by housing ensure that everyone is getting value for money—both benefit. the tenants who will not necessarily be intimately aware of the intricate costs and the leaseholders who clearly The Government’s solution is to cap housing benefit, are aware of the costs because they have a direct interest which will mean in turn the removal of large numbers in them. of people from central London. That is not a solution. The solution must be to support housing benefit, but it Tom Brake: I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to must also involve considering the impact and costs of the fact that there are many organisations that contract the private rented sector on our society. Paragraph 162 in that way and that should be put under a degree of of the report points out how many private rented properties scrutiny. For example, the Peabody Trust is in a protracted the UK had in 2007. The number has increased a great argument with the residents of BedZED, which it manages. deal since then, and I observe that it is increasing even The residents, who are a mix of owners, social tenants faster at present. and part-rent, part-buy tenants and key workers, have Paragraph 173 is interesting. The Committee took obtained a quote for redecorating the residential block evidence from Professor Tony Crook, professor of housing that is a fraction of the amount that Peabody is proposing studies at the university of Sheffield, who discussed the to pay its contractors, which it will of course pass on to influx of small-scale landlords, the number of buy-to-let its residents. mortgages that were granted and the resulting boom in the private rented sector. Shelter wants good-quality Jeremy Corbyn: That sounds like a depressingly familiar conditions in the private sector and is chary of introducing story. Indeed I have had similar relationships with a rent controls, as it thinks that that might reduce the number of housing associations, including the Peabody number of places available. Trust, in my own area. There needs to be a Select Committee investigation into the governance, accountability I can see Shelter’s point, but it seems to me that we in and democracy of housing associations. That would be this country have built in an enormous problem for a very good area to discuss. Having said that, I pay ourselves. People in my constituency who live in the tribute to Islington council for setting up a well-run private rented sector, unless they receive housing benefit, ALMO and for its attempts to co-ordinate the work of spend the highest proportion of their disposable income housing associations, the council, building programmes on housing—far more than any mortgage payer or and the community to ensure that we get family-sized social tenant—for the worst conditions and, generally housing, which is in the greatest demand. speaking, the worst services and repair levels. The issue We also need to consider the standards of management is not going to go away, and if my constituency is and, where possible, amalgamate the management of anything to go by, private tenants will increasingly start housing associations and the council in particular areas. to come together and be much more vocal about it. There can be six or eight housing associations operating I support close examination and inspection and the on one estate, which is not a sensible way in which to use of building control and legal proceedings to ensure run things. Tenants will have six or eight caretakers, six decent homes, decent repairs and decent quality, but we or eight managers and six or eight cleaning contracts. cannot escape considering rent levels in the private How about just having one? Clearly, there is a need for sector. It is done to some extent in the United States and us to investigate that area as well. to a great extent in Germany and many European I also want to thank the people who working in countries. I do not see why we should not start considering housing in my own borough—the caretakers, the cleaners, a similar process in this country. With the best will in the repair people and so on. They are not often thanked; the world, even if a Labour Government were spending they are usually criticised and blamed. The majority of billions of pounds of capital investment on new housing people who work in the public sector do so because they at present, there would still be a housing problem in five want to. They want to do a good job and to co-ordinate or 10 years’ time, particularly in London. It is an issue well with the tenants and the local communities. I want whose time has more than come, and a serious examination to praise them for what they do and the way in which of it is needed. I hope that the Select Committee is they try to respond to people’s needs. prepared to undertake it. 171WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 172WH
The Shelter document that I obtained in advance of that as a whole. My ambition is to see far more council today’s debate made this point: housing built, purchased and managed, with the good “More than £4 billion of taxpayers’ money is spent annually quality that is possible within it, and to see a degree of on housing benefit for private renters and this is set to rise to regulation in the private sector that will give people the nearly £6.7 billion by 2010/11.” security of tenure that is so desperately needed. Otherwise, We do not yet know what the effect of the cap will be, we are just failing in our duty. but that is what we are paying at present. It goes on to I compliment the Select Committee on the report make a good point: that it produced and the debate that it has encouraged “The sector doesn’t function well enough. Too many tenants today.I urge it to do further investigation work, particularly live in terrible conditions…Too many responsible landlords and on the role of the private sector in housing supply in professional property managers are undercut in the market by this country. slum landlords”. I understand that point. There are good landlords out Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): Order. Before I call the there who try to manage things properly, charge reasonable next speaker, it might be helpful for hon. Members to rents and be reasonable people, but then a cut-throat know that I intend to start the winding-up speeches at 5 arrives next door and undercuts them or gets rid of o’clock. It is just after 4 o’clock now and there are four them by other means. It is not a nice business in some speakers to go. I call Nicky Morgan. areas. “Too many landlords are confused about, or are unaware of, what 4.3 pm their obligations are.” Taxpayers lose a great deal of money every year as a Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): Thank you result, so tackling rogue landlords is very important for allowing me to make a contribution, Mr Bone. My and another issue to which I hope that the Government maths is not great, but I have just worked out how long I and the Select Committee will pay attention. have to speak, and I assure hon. Members that I will not take up all that time. I want to speak briefly about In areas such as mine, housing is the absolute, No. 1, Charnwood Neighbourhood Housing, which is the top-of-the-list, key issue. If someone is a council tenant, ALMO in my part of the borough—my Loughborough they have security of tenure—unless the Government’s constituency is part of the borough of Charnwood. new proposals under the Localism Bill come in and that security of tenure is under threat. I entirely agree with the comments of the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) about the work done by the staff in these organisations. I recognised the Grant Shapps: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that “Computer says no” attitude, which sometimes prevails there is no proposal whatever to remove security of when I ask for help with a query, but overall the housing tenure from any existing tenant? staff at Charnwood borough council offices and at Charnwood Neighbourhood Housing have always been Jeremy Corbyn: That was a very good use of words helpful and responsive in doing whatever they can to by the Minister, and I compliment him on it—Sir assist tenants and respond to my queries, which I have Humphrey would be proud. But, for new tenants, there raised both before and since my election to the House. is a proposal whereby it will be permissible for local Charnwood borough council has a retained housing authorities to limit the term of tenure or to review it. stock of just less than 6,000 units. The council bid for Given the divisive nature of the plan, if we take that funding in round 6 of the ALMO programme and was five, 10, 15 or 20 years down the road, the public sector awarded a minimum of £36 million to invest in stock will mirror the private sector as it is today. A tiny improvements, subject to receiving a two-star rating proportion of private sector tenants have the 1960s and from the Audit Commission. At the last inspection in 1970s rent protection—there are just a few left. I want February 2010, Charnwood achieved a one-star rating— security of tenure for all council and all housing association previously it was a zero-star organisation—with uncertain tenants, with no time limit placed on it. prospects for improvement, despite an awful lot of The need for investment in good-quality housing work having been done. Clearly, something was not could never be greater. Children growing up in overcrowded working and the management was not as it should have accommodation under-achieve in school and suffer more been. It has carried on working hard on the improvement illness. Families break up. It costs us all a lot of money. programme, and a new chief executive is in place. I have There are an awful lot of broken lives and broken met her, and she is working extremely hard. ambitions because of people living in poor-quality, I have heard both sides of the debate this afternoon, overcrowded accommodation, some of which is in the and I am sure that lots of lessons can be learned from public sector. People living in private rented accommodation organisations that have two stars. I entirely agree with may be forced to move every few months because the the Minister’s statement in November, in which he said landlord decides that they can get more money from that where organisations do not have a two-star rating, someone else, or decides to sell the property and move it is the tenants who lose out, because although they on, or whatever else. People have to cope with disruption have little control over the star rating of their landlord, to schooling and endless moves around the place. A their not getting decent homes is a result of that. The tenant on housing benefit in the private rented sector two-star rating is not in itself a guarantee of ability to has no negotiating power vis-à-vis a private sector landlord. run a capital programme or to offer good value for It is up to us and the public sector as a whole to money. There are no easy answers, but what I hear from ensure protection, regulation and security, so that children both sides of the Chamber this afternoon is that we all know where they are going to stay, families know where believe in the importance of housing, in terms of what they are going to stay and the communities benefit from it means for quality of life, and that, if at all possible, 173WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 174WH
[Nicky Morgan] 4.10 pm people cannot be allowed to continue to live in non-decent Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow houses. In April last year, 34.7% of Charnwood’s stock the hon. Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan). was non-decent and, as has already been said, the This debate has demonstrated how much every speaker longer the debate goes on the more housing slips back cares about housing in their own area and on how much into non-decency. we agree, although we will always disagree about how much money is spent by whichever Government are in The report is extremely valuable. I want to bring to power. Many Labour Members were cross during the the Minister’s attention two issues that were raised with first four years of the Labour Government, way back in me by my ALMO. These issues have not been mentioned 1997, when we felt that housing was being given the so far, although I might be wrong and not have been least priority. That changed, but if we had given housing concentrating properly. Additional investment might be a great deal more priority from day one, we would be in required in particular types of stock. For example, a much better position today. Charnwood has non-traditional, precast reinforced concrete housing, which requires greater investment levels, and a I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield large number of sheltered housing schemes which are South East (Mr Betts), who introduced this debate, on no longer fit for purpose but which house some of our his commitment to housing over a long period. He has most vulnerable tenants. always ensured that the matter is raised in Parliament. I say to the Minister that his job is probably one of the Charnwood is also a rural community. Having been a most difficult in the Government, because housing affects candidate in Islington South and Finsbury back in the every MP from the inner city to rural areas, as my hon. 2001 general election, I know the problems of London, Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) although I now represent a semi-rural constituency. We has said. It is the most important issue that I encounter have a growing elderly population and demand for at my constituency surgeries. For many of us, it is there adaptations is consistently high. That might not fall all the time, and we get more and more frustrated and within decent homes funding, but it still needs to be depressed, because we know that we can do little to help paid for, particularly if we are asking people to live in people who are desperately overcrowded and want to their houses for longer and to remain independent for move or who are homeless. as long as possible. As has been said, funding does not appear to be available for state upgrades or environmental On cost, there is no point arguing about how another improvements, which would create opportunities for Government would have spent more or done things designing out crime and supporting reductions in antisocial differently. Undoubtedly, cuts would have had to come. behaviour. We all want to support the Minister in arguing his case with the Treasury in terms of the cost-benefit analysis In the borough council and the ALMO’s joint response of spending and investment in housing. My hon. Friend to the backlog funding proposals, the spending review the Member for Islington North has discussed the cost and the difficulty with public finances are noted, and of people living in bad housing. The cost to our national both chief executives say that they health service of the people affected by bad housing “will respond positively to any changes that are thought necessary conditions and overcrowding is huge, as it is more likely by central government to assist in the recovery of the economy.” that they will need treatment, which costs money.Although They say that they appreciate the impact that less money we have our differences in terms of specific party politics, being available will have on local authorities, but they we must do everything that we can collectively to say to want to rise to the challenge in a “constructive and Governments of all parties that investment in housing creative way”, and I pay tribute to them for that saves money in the long term. entrepreneurial spirit. The chief executives believe that I will make one or two quick points. The reason why I they can still deliver a decent homes investment programme did not put in my name, Mr Bone, is that I was not sure that achieves value for money. how long the introduction to a new report on a ban on We have all discussed the importance of decent homes Heathrow night flights would take. It did not take as and of funding, and we need money to improve the long as I thought it would, so I am able to be here. quality of life for tenants across the borough of Charnwood and to assist the Government in delivering their strategic Many of the Adjournment debates that I have secured and financial objectives in doing that. I welcome the concerned housing in Lambeth. Lambeth is one of Government’s commitment to funding and to addressing those boroughs in which politics change, council leadership the backlog of homes that have not yet reached the changes and coalitions form—we have had it all during decent standard and those organisations that have not my time as a Member of Parliament—but one thing reached two-star status yet. I understand that it is that does not seem to change is the culture and how it is important that we end up with organisations that have run, particularly in terms of housing. I opposed the sustainable, self-financing business plans. I shall make ALMO in Lambeth, as I thought that it would end up the same point in my conclusion as I made in my simply as a change of function from the local authority, intervention: because of having to wait for two-star and that the same kind of people would run the ALMO. status, my ALMO has not been able to submit a bid. We I have been proved more or less right. The ALMO was are now in round 6, and less money is available due to approved by a tiny majority—3,518 to 3,362—so I the state of the economy and public finances that we appreciate that it did not start with a mountain of were left. I know that the ALMO would appreciate a support. Some good people have been involved, and decision sooner rather than later, so that it can get on some have worked hard. with raising standards for tenants in the borough of I add my thanks to the people at the bottom of the Charnwood. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s structure—those who do the cleaning on the estates, response. particularly those who are in-house. Despite all the 175WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 176WH changes at the top, in which they never seem to be them off now because we cannot afford to make them involved, and despite all the factors against them, they good.” It is absolutely scandalous, and I hope that the try to deliver good services, where they can. They are at Minister will say that he will encourage such a route. the sharp end where the cuts will come, which will not affect the people on £250,000 a year—the directors and Mr Betts: Where councils let a property which is not assistant directors of which we seem to have so many, decent and the tenant moves in, there is a guarantee who get huge amounts of money that never seems to be that once they have been in for a short period of time, it cut. I would love the Select Committee to investigate the will be brought up to a decent standard, which is a costs of how we deliver services. Any tenant or resident condition of the letting being accepted. In such a case, leader who has been involved in their tenants or residents the money might be taken away and the council might association for a long time could simply come in and not honour its promise, which would be a real problem say how much things could be changed and made for a tenant who had moved in under such circumstances. different. We did not get a two-star rating in my constituency. Kate Hoey: I want to go further. If a person is handy When the ALMO was set up, most people moved to it. and can do a bit of plumbing, why can we not let them We got a few changes, but we are no nearer to getting a move in and fix things up themselves? For the first six two-star rating now than we were when we started. The months, they could live rent-free or pay a reduced rent, tenants and I have always said, “What happens when which is what the GLC used to do. If the flats are used, there is a change of Government? Is there a plan B? Will more rent comes into the borough thereby giving councils ALMOs still be supported? Will a two-star rating mean more money. If we leave the homes empty, no one is anything?” I am quite pleased that we have got rid of paying rent. I feel strongly about that. this whole two-star thing, because in the end, it is not Finally, housing associations have become more and the tenants’ fault that the ALMO does not have a more like the old style, one-size-fits-all council, which two-star rating. The tenants worked so hard to make it we have tried to get away from. I was very supportive of happen. Now we are in a situation in which we do not the tenants who wanted Hyde Housing to take over a have a two-star rating, and we have a huge amount of great deal of the housing stock in Stockwell, but we homes that are not up to the decent homes standard. have recently experienced the most appalling problems We have put in a bid for £217 million, but we are with that organisation. When it finally realised that unlikely to get it, and we should be coming to the things were going wrong, representatives came down Minister now with our priorities. and were responsive to the tenants. The chief executive has now gone, which may be why things have changed. One or two estates are real priorities. I could take hon. Members to an estate, which is a 10-minute walk Jeremy Corbyn: Does my hon. Friend not think that from the House of Commons, where the windows are there is an issue surrounding the governance, accountability falling out, which is something that people have been and democracy of housing associations? They started living with for a long time. I cannot understand why we out as smallish local, social organisations, but they have do not have a system where we look at the estate and become very large housing companies that often seem assess how much it would cost to get the windows in. more interested in private development than in their We will spend more money—just like we spent more primary function. than £1 million on getting an ALMO—on preparing the costs and the analyses, and companies will come back time after time. It is usually the same old companies Kate Hoey: I agree. There have been so many mergers that get the jobs anyway. All those people go around that I give up on the names and what they call themselves tendering against each other and operating cosy little now. They have definitely moved away from being small cartels. It often ends up with someone getting a lot of and really local—they try to close their local housing money, and sometimes the standard of the work is not offices as soon as possible once they have taken over. adequate. On my hon. Friend’s point about leaseholder charges, some people have been being ripped off for years by Decent homes standards cover more than just the housing associations. In the case of Hyde Housing, it home itself. Some of my older residents do not want a was only because a group of residents got together and new kitchen and like their sinks or whatever. In fact, spent hours and hours looking at the issue in detail in some of the sinks that were taken out were sold to rich order to prove their case that it accepted that case, people who wanted to install an old-fashioned sink. A apologised and will pay the money back. In my area, decent homes standard is different for everybody. the most success, in terms of the management and the It upsets me that we have many empty flats and residents’ enjoyment of it, has come from successful, homes in Lambeth. When a tenant moves out or dies, small TMOs. They have really worked. They have been their home is empty. Suddenly, that home cannot be let, given the power and more control. One of them, Holland because it is not up to decent homes standards, even Rise and Whitebeam Close, has taken over the concierge though someone was living there two or three weeks system and is running it brilliantly. The staff like being ago, which is absolutely ridiculous. We should be able to there now—they feel that they are involved in the estate allow people with a bit of nous who are on the housing and know the residents. In the past, Lambeth council waiting list to go in and do their work, like the old ran the concierge system for all the blocks, and the Greater London Council used to do. As long as the TMO had to put up with its management and style. electrics and the health and safety are right, I do not see I will probably get into trouble with my councillors why anyone should not be allowed to go in and take the for what I have said, but some good things are happening flat. Instead, we have flats sitting empty for months and in Lambeth. The issue is about investment and money, even years. Then the council says, “We had better sell but it is also about more than that. I support the 177WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 178WH
[Kate Hoey] In carrying out that work, our ALMO is already achieving good value for money and efficiency savings. Government’s proposed changes in relation to rents and For example, £7 million of savings were achieved by councils being able to control that money. However, we using innovative e-auction tenders and £8.4 million was must make sure that there is a mechanism that ensures saved by adopting a streaming rather than a whole that that money is spent properly. Local is best, but house approach—in other words, a specialist contractor local councils do not always do the right thing with the completes all the windows required on a street-by-street money. basis and then a separate contractor undertakes work on boilers, insulation and so on. Although that might 4.22 pm seem to be disruptive to tenants, it has been a much Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I apologise, more popular and efficient way of doing things. Mr Bone, for not writing to you beforehand to indicate Tenants tell me that they feel safer, warmer and, that I wished to speak in today’s debate. indeed, happier as a result of the works undertaken and The Communities and Local Government Committee’s investment in their homes. They often mention the report begins its key conclusions with the statement: reduction in damp and condensation, the benefit of having lower heating bills and, importantly, the feeling “The decent homes programme has had a dramatic, positive effect on the living conditions of almost all social housing tenants of pride they have in the improved look of not just their by putting very significant resources into tangible improvements home, but the neighbourhood. In going out to talk to to social housing.” tenants, I also talk to the people who live next door who There is no doubt that the Committee’s report is are owner-occupiers or other social tenants. They say comprehensive and far-reaching, and I congratulate the same thing: they really appreciate the difference that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East the decent homes programme has made to our city. (Mr Betts) on his chairmanship of the Committee. I am The view that the decent homes programme has had unsure, however, that such an analysis can ever adequately benefits is based not only on tenants’ comments—vital express the importance and impact that such schemes though those are—but on hard evidence. Nottingham have on local communities and local people. That is why City Homes is undertaking research projects in partnership I would like to share Nottingham’s experience of the with Nottingham Trent university to measure the wider decent homes programme as implemented by our ALMO, social impact of the decent homes programme in Nottingham City Homes. I also want to take this Nottingham. The first research project was based on opportunity to raise concerns about the future, particularly areas where the secure work to install new windows has since funding for the completion of the programme has been carried out. The report is quite substantial, but been cut by 40%. We in Nottingham are only part way one of the statistics I picked out from it indicates that through the scheduled works to bring all council housing there has been a 41% reduction in burglaries in areas up to the required standard. where the secure work has been completed in homes, In Nottingham, the Government have decided to compared with a 21% reduction in burglaries across withdraw £200 million of funding for a major private Nottingham. That demonstrates the real difference to finance initiative project for the regeneration of the the lives of local people that just one element of the Meadows neighbourhood in my constituency. As a result, programme has had. council homes that would have been demolished and One of the other most valuable impacts has been the rebuilt or substantially improved under the PFI scheme, creation of more than 600 new jobs in the city and 80 and that were therefore not included in the city’s decent new apprenticeships as a result of the award-winning homes programme, are now in need of substantial “One in a Million” scheme, under which the contractors improvements to bring them up to standard. agree to take on a new apprentice for every million Nottingham’s decent homes programme is known pounds of expenditure. However, much of the work is locally as Secure Warm Modern, which reflects the still to be completed under the remaining programme priorities set by tenants, for whom security was and is a and is planned for completion by 2013. Nottingham key concern. Nottingham City Homes had to work very City Homes was due to receive a further £91 million of hard to reach the two-star rating required to access funding from the Department for Communities and capital funding and, having done so, expected to bring Local Government for the remaining programme in the all its housing up to and beyond the national standard coming two years. As a result of the re-allocations by 2013. I was interested in the comments of a number process, Nottingham City Homes has bid for £67 million of hon. Members on the two-star rating and, while I to bring 90%—the maximum allowed—of the stock agree that tenants should not be penalised for the to decency by 2013. It has made an additional bid for failings of the management company, I think it would £26 million between 2011 to 2015 to cover exceptional be hard on an ALMO that has worked very hard to stock. The bid now includes an additional £9.7 million reach that standard to be penalised. for the Meadows estate, after the announcement that The programme is mid-way through and in a period the planned regeneration project had been cut from the of intense activity. I understand from Nottingham City private finance initiative programme. That is a disastrous Homes that a new window or door is fitted every two decision for my constituents and for the achievement of minutes, a new heating system is installed every 20 minutes, good-quality housing in the Meadows. I am grateful and an internal package—a kitchen, bathroom or both—is that the Minister has agreed to meet me to discuss that completed every 20 minutes. By April 2011, Nottingham decision and the impact it is having. City Homes will have upgraded windows in 13,700 The properties covered by the proposed PFI project properties, replaced 3,300 doors, upgraded 10,600 heating in the Meadows were previously excluded from the systems, and replaced 7,300 kitchens and 6,000 bathrooms. decent homes programme because they were going to That is a total investment of £74 million. be rebuilt and refurbished. Local residents are extremely 179WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 180WH disappointed that the transformation of their estate will remains an absolutely central political issue today. I not go ahead. It would be deeply unfair and a real kick know that the Minister knows that, because for a brief in the teeth for them if they also missed out on the period he had political aspirations in Southwark, which improvements that other tenants across the city have I was able to redirect elsewhere. I am sincerely grateful enjoyed. Let me give hon. Members an idea of the scale for his interest in and robust engagement with housing of the situation. A further 1,240 properties require issues, and for his willingness not just to listen, but to decent homes work, including 820 windows, 620 doors, try to work with colleagues imaginatively to find solutions 1,000 heating upgrades, 840 kitchens, 920 bathrooms, in difficult financial times. plus electrical rewires and insulation upgrades. There is I had the last Adjournment debate in Westminster a substantial impact on demand. Hall in the last Parliament. It was on housing in Southwark. The exceptional stock part of the bid also includes Barbara Follett replied on behalf of the then Government five high-rise blocks in Lenton in my constituency, and was positive, constructive and helpful. The debate which require additional funds to fit external structural was on general issues in relation to housing in Southwark, wall insulation to bring the properties to the required but it allowed me to say then, as I shall say now, that I standard for thermal comfort. Nottingham City Homes come to the debate as the person who is privileged to be has bid for the majority of funding in 2011 to 2013, in the Member of Parliament in England with the largest line with original plans and contractual agreements to proportion of constituents who live in local authority complete the programme by 2013. It tells me that any housing. That has been the case ever since I was first delay or change to the contracts will result in increased elected. I am privileged to be the Member of Parliament costs, as the favourable terms will not be achievable at a for the borough with the largest local authority social lower volume or with a delay to the contract, and housing stock in London and, I think, the third largest additional costs will be incurred as a result of the in England. We are absolutely clear that council homes re-procurement process. The results of the bidding process make a hugely important contribution to social cohesion will be announced next month. This is clearly a period in Britain. In the old borough of Bermondsey, we had of great anxiety for both the ALMO and, more importantly, the first council homes ever in England. That was the tenants. result of a far-sighted, progressive Labour council in Tenants are rightly angry that the promised the 1920s. We have retained that real commitment to refurbishments might not go ahead. There has been decent homes in public ownership, as well as decent huge support for the Nott Decent campaign that they homes in any other form of social ownership. launched to raise their concerns with Government. I It is notable—this was part of the evidence given by was proud to welcome local tenants’ representatives my friend, Councillor Stanton—that whenever Southwark, Jean England, Alison Thorpe and Ennis Peck when under whatever colour of political leadership, has discussed they came to Westminster last year to present a petition what should happen, we have taken a different view to No. 10 on behalf of all those local people who are from the one taken in Lambeth and have retained local waiting for their homes to be improved. If the bid is not authority housing in direct ownership and management. fully funded, that will severely damage Nottingham’s In my judgment, we have taken the right view on that. I programme, with less value for money, higher costs, think that it is important. It provides accountability and hundreds of job losses at a difficult time and, worst of is the best solution. I was very glad that at the end of a all, thousands of tenants who are expecting their homes long struggle with the Labour Government, we were to be improved being let down. able to win the argument that we should not be penalised. My friends the hon. Members for Vauxhall and for I welcome the recommendations in the report by the Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) will remember that, Select Committee and its wish both to learn from all the time, the Labour Government were trying to the decent homes programme and to establish priorities incentivise people to become ALMOs and so on, saying for the years ahead, but it seems to me that the priority that that would provide a better deal. That should be a must be to deliver what was first promised—a decent local decision. home for all. The really good news about the Minister’s announcements in November is that, in finding some 4.31 pm money for the decent homes programme to continue, which is very welcome, he made the right decision in Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) saying that we are not going to go back to using the (LD): Thank you for accommodating me, Mr Bone. I old-style rating method. The council’s ability to deliver apologise to you, to the Chairman of the Select Committee, would have been reflected on to the tenants, who would the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), have paid the price. The tenants would have been penalised. and to my right hon. Friend the Minister for not being I am very grateful that councils are basically starting present at the start of the debate. I was chairing a from a blank sheet, have been able to put in their bids meeting elsewhere in the House on education matters of and are awaiting the outcome. general interest, which overran. I came here as quickly I also think that it was a wise move, although obviously as I could and am pleased to be here. slightly more controversial, to say that in general, and I am very grateful for the Select Committee’s report. normally, if less than 10% of the stock were still to be I note that the Committee had the benefit of the brought up to decent homes standards, we would not contribution from my friend and colleague, Councillor expect the Government to be able to assist, but that Nick Stanton, who was then leader of Southwark council. exceptional cases would be looked at. That seems sensible. He came and gave evidence, together with Councillor I also want to pick up on the point wisely and readily Kim Humphreys. That shows that in Southwark, as in made by my colleague the hon. Member for Islington Lambeth, Islington and elsewhere, as my friend the North, who, like me, has been in debates on housing in hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) said, housing this place pretty much for half his life. 181WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 182WH
Jeremy Corbyn: Longer than you think. place at the end of the Rotherhithe peninsula. That was fine in practice, and all the housing associations were Simon Hughes: Not that much. very interested, but when it came to delivering the Colleagues will not be surprised by the figures in the management of that bit of the borough, it was hopeless written answer on 12 January 2011 to a question about because problems arose over the common parts and the the percentage of homes of different tenure in England public roads. In the end, the housing associations had that are decent homes. The figures are, however, worth to agree that one of them would take over the management putting on the record. Of all private sector homes, just of all the areas owned by the other five. fewer than two thirds—65.6%—are regarded as decent My friend, the hon. Member for Vauxhall, argued homes. Of all social property, the figure is higher at strongly in favour of tenant-management organisations, 72.8%. That makes the first absolutely fundamental and which I support and which are often small, bottom-up obvious point: the social sector—council housing organisations. Ways must be found of allowing such predominantly, and more latterly housing association organisations to retain that degree of autonomy, but property—has been much better than the private sector within a federation of local housing associations. That at providing decent homes. may be the way in which we can bring together the small Breaking down those figures, it is absolutely not specific housing associations without being draconian surprising, but absolutely worth putting on the record, and say that they must pass a specific threshold. that 67.7% of owner-occupied homes are decent homes It was good that the Labour Government set up the compared with only 56% of private rented homes. In all decent homes programme in 2000. For the record, it our constituencies, the sector with the lowest-quality was sad that they fell short. I understand all the constraints accommodation is that of privately rented homes, as that existed, but in the end the programme did not the Chairman of the Select Committee well knows. deliver on its aspiration. It was a judgment call. The That is not as directly the responsibility of the public result was that the new build of housing under Labour service as other sectors are, but it is indirectly related, was dreadful—in fact it was more dreadful than under a and I remind the Minister to keep that on his agenda. A previous Tory Government. Labour will have to defend perfectly good relationship can be built up between that judgment call. The present Government are right central Government, local government and the private in saying—the Minister and I were talking about this sector, which is not over-demanding or over-regulatory, only recently—that they have to encourage both new but ensures, to put it bluntly, that landlords and owners build and the renovation of existing stock. We must do are not allowed to get away with letting out rubbish both in parallel; we cannot put all our eggs in one housing. We need to ensure that people are not penalised basket. by being left in such accommodation. All local authorities that have social housing—apart Lastly—again, this is obviously not surprising—in from areas in the north-west, such as Burnley, where recent years housing associations have gone past councils there is a surplus of housing and where the issues are in the percentage of their stock that is decent housing. entirely different—need both new build and renovation. The figures are 77.2% of housing association property I am talking about all the London boroughs and most conforming to the decent housing standard, and 68.5% of of the rest of the country, both rural and urban. local authority property. There also needs to be flexibility in the decent homes Linked to that point, I support the call by the hon. standard. As Nick Stanton says, there are different Member for Islington North to have an inquiry, if the criteria for someone on the seventh floor of Lupin Select Committee can find the time, into the housing Point in my constituency in Bermondsey and for someone association sector’s accountability to its residents. Housing in a cottage in a tin-mining village in Cornwall, which associations are of very variable quality. There are may still be local authority-owned. There needs to be many in my constituency and although they always the flexibility for that to be defined locally. engage well with me, they do not always deliver. The When my colleagues were leading the administration other day I spent the day with Peabody, which is based in Southwark, they always said that they wanted to in my constituency. It has improved again; it was very apply their own standards rather than the off-the-shelf good and then slipped. Other associations also go up Government standards. There is also a very different and down, but the problem is that there is no democratic view from the residents. I visited the famous prefab system, whereas at least with local authorities, managers estate in Lewisham—I do not know whether it is in the can be thrown out, or housing can be made the big issue constituency of the hon. Member for Lewisham East of the election campaign. That is an issue with which I (Heidi Alexander)—which is a wonderful place to go. I hope the Government are willing to engage. have not followed every twist and turn of the saga, but I think that I am right in saying that the council has Jeremy Corbyn: I absolutely endorse what the right decided to have it demolished. I regret that because, hon. Gentleman is saying. Does he agree that there is bizarrely, prefabs that have existed since the war were huge inefficiency where there are small housing associations very popular homes for the people who lived in them. running a few properties over a large and scattered area, They will not conform to all the decent homes standards, or on an estate where there are five or six associations? but they were warm and had gardens. Therefore, we That is an enormous waste of resources, and there should be careful about not being over- prescriptive ought to be some rationalisation and greater efficiency. from the centre.
Simon Hughes: That is a real issue. When the London Heidi Alexander: Given that the right hon. Gentleman Docklands Development Corporation was developing raised the subject of the Excalibur estate, I cannot resist Rotherhithe and Surrey docks, it contracted with a making a comment. He is right to say that the council consortium of six housing associations to develop the has decided to demolish and rebuild the estate, but it 183WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 184WH made that decision after conducting a ballot of all becomes empty, the council rips out perfectly good, tenants on the estate. The ballot was incredibly close, serviceable fixtures due to an obsession with uniformity. with more than 50% voting for the demolition and just If a previous tenant who was good at home improvement under 50% voting against it. The costs of renovating the did some nice work in the place, the next tenant might properties and bringing them up to a decent standard like to keep it and should be given the choice. Instead, were considered. Indeed that was something that many the council rips it all out, wasting time, money and families who live on that estate very dearly wanted. resources to undo what is probably good quality work. None the less, the difficult decision has been taken. Simon Hughes: A fantastic unity is developing: I see Simon Hughes: I appreciate how difficult the decision the Minister nodding; the hon. Member for Islington was. Prefab homes are often really popular—they were North, who is not regarded as a right-wing socialist, is in Southwark—and there are not many left. That prefab making the point; and I agree with the hon. Member for estate was the iconic last redoubt of the post-war London Islington North, so we are all in it together. That is prefab. absolutely the point. Many people improve their council I make a plea to the Minister and, through him and properties and make them really nice. If they move, his colleagues, to local councils. The decent homes there is absolutely no reason why the new tenants programme must always be re-evaluated on the basis of should not be offered the option to keep the property as an up-to-date stock condition survey, but other flexibilities it is. It might need a bit of a tweak, but the tenants are needed as well. The first is the flexibility to which should be offered the chance to find somebody to help my friend the hon. Member for Vauxhall referred; I them make whatever small changes they need before heard the exchange between her and the Chair of the they move in. Let us be intelligent about such things Select Committee. It is nonsense that Lambeth has rather than monolithic, prescriptive and centralised. 600 empty council properties—that is the figure that I That approach is frustrating; it wastes time and money; was given—because they are allegedly not decent homes, and it keeps people out of housing at a time when we so after tenants leave, the council cannot put another are desperately short of it. tenant in. There must be a non-bureaucratic, non- I want to finish in good time—we might even finish municipalist way to engage people from the voluntary the debate early. I have argued for a flexible decent sector and community groups to make those homes homes standard that is agreed locally, and it should be liveable. There are always people willing to do so. We for local authorities to negotiate that. Possibly such a cannot allow only builders and plumbers in; there are standard would need Government clearance, but I am lots of people. I can think of a mate of mine who has relaxed about that. If the local authority is happy, just retired—he worked in the bus garage in Catford, as provided that the minimum health and safety standards it happens—who is a really good handyman. He is are met, that is fine. looking for things to do in his early retirement, and he I know that the Under-Secretary of State for has fantastic construction skills. Lots of people are Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend willing to do it. We must engage the community and the Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell), has ensure that homes do not sit empty just because they made this point, and I, too, am keen to have a modern, are not in the council’s programme for 2011. green homes standards. If we refurbish, let us make the The other thing that is needed is decent common homes energy-efficient at the same time and save on spaces such as entrance halls, lift lobbies and landings. bills, as well as just making them look nice with new It makes all the difference. Like my colleagues, whether windows and so on. Let us try to minimise the short in Nottingham or London, I can go to two tower blocks turnaround. in the same borough of identical build and identical This is not special pleading, because I have a reason height, one of which is clean and pleasant, smells nice, for making this plea. When money is being allocated to looks nice and has had a touch of paint, the other of local authorities, sometimes there are high expenditure which, of the same age, is dreadful and unkempt with issues that should be factored in so that councils are not peeling paint. We must ensure that councils understand disadvantaged as a result. We had a huge fire in Camberwell. that they should be able to get on with the quick and It was not in my constituency but in the neighbouring easy bits of work that can improve people’s quality of constituency of the right hon. and learned Member for life hugely for five years without massive spend: it is not Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman). It was just a about putting in new lifts or redoing the whole building; couple of years ago and there were six fatalities. It was it is not about having scaffolding up to the 20th floor for in Lakanal house on the Sceaux Gardens estate. half a year; it is about little things. We had a fire in my constituency two weeks ago. It Much more inventiveness is needed to make homes in was in a tower block—Brawne house—on the Brandon the public and socially rented sector the same quality as estate. Mercifully, there were no fatalities and no serious we would want our places to be. For me, the test is injuries. I visited the 12th floor with the local councillor always, “Would I want to live here and invite my family and secretary of the local tenants and residents association. to come into this flat?” If the flat is great but getting Sometimes there are unexpected bills, because a terrible there is like going through a sewer, to be blunt, that is event has occurred, and I hope that councils will not be not acceptable. not penalised when such disasters strike, because they need to ensure that the properties are put back into Jeremy Corbyn: On one side of the question of the decent nick. The matter concerns not only the homes waste of resources is the ridiculous situation in Lambeth affected but the block, and the council might need to in which homes are kept empty. On the other are places repaint or deal with fire damage or whatever. It is not where the council has the money for the decent homes right to tell a local authority that there are no circumstances standard but where, when somebody dies or the flat in which it cannot be regarded as a special case for extra 185WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 186WH
[Simon Hughes] Obviously, when we change Government, or when we have a new CSR, we will have to reassess what the help. I am not suggesting that there should be a differential public finances can afford. I have not met a single formula for special help, but occasionally there has to person in England who does not understand that we be special help for those who have such problems. have to tighten our belts collectively—Government, Decent homes work is a fantastic opportunity for local government and everybody else. Nobody fails to enhancing local apprenticeships and skills in the local understand that point. The question is how we continue community. There should not be any local authority or the programme that the Minister has announced and local housing association-owned property where decent deliver it fairly. As councils make decisions about what homes work is going on that does not engage people they will do, I hope that they will seek to have fairness in from the local community in apprenticeships, skills their community, so that everybody feels part of the enhancement and training. I hope that that can be improvement programme not only for their own home, encouraged and that the experience is positive. I know but for that community as a whole. that Southwark does it, and we could do more of it. Colleagues have made the point that leaseholders 4.55 pm have a huge interest in what is being done. We need a Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): It is a great better system for consulting about works. I have twice pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first tried to get a Bill through to improve the rights of time, Mr Bone. I congratulate my hon. Friend the leaseholders, otherwise the leaseholders get ridiculously Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) on his high bills. Pensioners with no savings can get a bill for excellent opening speech, which set the scene for today’s £27,000 for works that they never assented to. The work excellent debate. may include replacing windows after people have already replaced them themselves, which is nonsense. I am not The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington aiming that point at one particular council. The City of (Tom Brake) referred to ALMOs, almost as a default London corporation owns estates in my constituency position, as being better than local authorities. That is and has been guilty of that in the past, when I had to slightly unfair—probably very unfair—on the many struggle to get the bills down. local authorities that do an excellent job. We need to ensure that there is fairness across communities and estates as part of the decent homes Tom Brake: For the record, I made a comparison programme. That is a matter for the local authority to between ALMOs and housing associations, and not lead. Nothing is more frustrating for tenants who have between ALMOs and local authorities. been on an estate for 30 years than seeing that blocks one, two, three and four have had all the work done and Chris Williamson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for look like new builds, and then somebody says, “You that clarification, which I welcome, and I apologise can’t have anything in block five for the next five years.” for misunderstanding him. I was making the point that Those are all matters for local management. There many local authorities do an excellent job and do not needs to be sensitivity about how we roll out the decent necessarily need an ALMO to improve the housing homes programme. We are at the beginning of a new stock for which they are responsible. Government and the decent homes programme will The hon. Gentleman also pointed out that successive continue for the next four years, which is welcome. Governments have neglected council housing. That was probably true of the previous Administration during Mr Betts: The right hon. Gentleman is right that their first four years, but the biggest problems built up these are matters for local decisions, but they are also a over the 18 years of the previous Conservative matter for central Government if the first group of Administration, and the decent homes programme went houses—blocks or individual houses—have been done a long way towards addressing the backlog of dilapidation under the first part of the programme, and suddenly that was created by the under-investment from 1979 to central Government funding is cut, as some of my 1997. He was hopeful that all the homes that are not colleagues discussed earlier, perhaps before the right currently decent will be brought up to standard by the hon. Gentleman came in. Therefore, half the houses in end of this Parliament. I share his hope, but it is the ALMO have been done, and the other half remain unlikely to be fulfilled. to be done, but then money is cut off as a result of the My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Ann CSR, so it is surely a central Government rather than Coffey) stressed the importance of good housing local government decision whether the programme management. From my own experience of representing continues. Derby North and as a councillor on Derby city council, I know that that is key to ensuring that people enjoy a Simon Hughes: I hope that we can finish the debate good quality of life on their housing estate. Poor housing without me and the hon. Gentleman falling out on management can lead to a whole range of problems, fairly obvious political ground. The reality is that and I am sure that there is cross-party agreement on Governments allocate money for periods of years—years that issue. My hon. Friend’s concern that the shortage rather than one year—which is a good thing, because it of housing should be a key priority, if not the top gives certainty. The Government have chosen, as they priority, is again one that I share. However, the decision were entitled to do, to have a four-year plan, but it has made by the Government to remove housing targets by been broken down into two periods of two years each, getting rid of the regional spatial strategies will make it which is the right sort of balance. I hope that Ministers a more significant problem in years to come. Forcing will be able to show flexibility at the end of two years. people into the private sector is not a good way of That is my wish, but it will be their call. proceeding, as my hon. Friend pointed out. 187WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 188WH
The hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West on health, education and general quality of life. He (Paul Uppal) referred to apprenticeships and to how it referred to the need for greater protection, regulation is a good thing to use the decent homes programme to and security for people living in the rented sector. build up jobs by offering training and opportunities The hon. Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) through apprenticeships for people to take advantage of referred to the danger—she repeated the point that the investment in construction. That is another important other hon. Members have made—of the housing stock angle, but to some extent it will be undermined by the deteriorating if we do not invest appropriately. She is cuts made to the decent homes programme. right to worry, and she is right to be more worried by My hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East the cuts being pushed through, ironically enough, by (Heidi Alexander) said that too many people still live in her own Government. Interestingly, she made the point substandard accommodation. She spoke eloquently about about the need for adaptations as well. That is another the impact that that has on people’s lives, and she area for disabled people that is extremely important. referred to the embarrassment and shame that people More people are living longer now, and there is a feel, because they live in substandard accommodation. greater need for disabled facilities grants. It is another It is not their fault, and we have an obligation to people area where local authorities will struggle to meet the to ensure that they can enjoy their home. Nobody demand. They are already struggling, but the problem should be forced to endure that feeling of embarrassment will become even more acute, because of the cuts that and shame, because of inadequate investment by their are being pushed through. local authority and central Government. I share her My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Kate belief that, in certain circumstances, demolition is the Hoey) referred to the first four years of the Labour only option. In numerous examples around the country, Government—I have already touched on this point—where we have seen that selective demolition has had a significant housing was not given sufficient priority. She said that impact and improved the overall standard of the housing housing is the most important issue in her constituency, estate, where it has taken place. She concluded by and she also repeated the impact of poor housing on discussing the uncertainty about whether Lewisham health. She also stressed the importance of insuring will be able to deliver its decent homes standard. that in any investment programme we secure value for money. She said that if we are not careful, there is a The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old danger of cartels being created and the public sector Southwark (Simon Hughes) referred to authorities having not getting good value for money. We could actually get to have a two-star rating. In a letter to the Chair of the more bang for our buck, as it were, if we were to bear Communities and Local Government Committee, the down more severely on that. My hon. Friend also made Minister said: a good point about the use of empty homes and being “To improve fairness in allocating local authority decent homes more flexible, and she referred to the GLC. That is a funding, we will no longer require ALMOs to have passed a good example to cite, and I am interested in the Minister’s housing inspection with a 2* rating”. remarks about it. Hopefully the Minister will confirm that that is the case My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South and that consequently Lewisham will be able to access (Lilian Greenwood) referred to the withdrawal of a the funding that it needs and deserves. huge PFI scheme that would have dealt with the problems in the Meadows estate. I know that area well, given My hon. Friend the Member for Islington North that it is close to my constituency. Indeed, I had a job (Jeremy Corbyn) made a number of important points with Henry Boot plc as a bricklayer on the Meadows and referred to the cuts building up problems for the estate when it was being built, but I must say that I future. I share my hon. Friend’s concern that it is am not responsible for it, as I took a job on another short-sighted to make deep cuts now, because, in the building site. long term, everyone pays a bigger price, both in human My hon. Friend eloquently outlined the impact of and financial terms. My hon. Friend also congratulated—I the decent homes programme on her constituents. She want to share in offering those congratulations—people discussed not only bricks and mortar, important though such as caretakers, street cleaners and other public they are, but how such matters impact on the lives of sector workers on doing an excellent job. They are all ordinary people and improve the quality of their life. too often castigated, and they are not celebrated enough. Indeed, she said that 80 apprenticeships have been I welcome his comments in that regard. created, and as a result of the cuts to the programme in My hon. Friend also made an important point about Nottingham, fewer apprenticeships will be taken on high rents in the private sector, people being forced into now than would have otherwise been the case. the private sector and the problems associated with the The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old quality of private-rented accommodation, because of Southwark said that the largest proportion of council inadequate regulation. The decision of the Government tenants is located in his constituency. He also had the to impose restrictions on housing benefit is a blunt good grace to refer to the legacy of previous, progressive instrument, which penalises people who have, through Labour councils going back as far as the 1920s. Those no fault of their own, been forced to live in the private-rented councils set an excellent standard. I share his view sector. A better route may have been to restrict the level about ALMOs being down to a local decision. When of rents that landlords can charge, as well as looking at that is appropriate and tenants want it, that is fine, but restricting housing benefit. Perhaps the Minister will it should not be forced on them. He, too, made the comment on that. It is wrong to penalise people because point about the private rented sector and the fact that they are poor. This impacts not only on poorer people, most of the overall housing stock in the country that is but on people on middle incomes as well. He rightly not up to a decent standard is in the private-rented pointed out the impact that poor quality housing has sector. Only 56% of privately rented accommodation 189WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 190WH
[Chris Williamson] He also stated: “Councils need the freedom to make the best long term decision comes up to the decent homes threshold. That matter for their housing, and it is critical that reform is able to deliver needs urgent attention, and I hope that the Minister will that.” deal with it in his concluding remarks. Of course, that has been done in the context of unprecedented cuts in funding for local authorities. I Simon Hughes: I wonder whether the Minister will at would be interested to hear from the Minister how he least lodge the Select Committee’s recommendation, thinks councils will be able to deliver the ambition that which the previous Government did not pick up—it he set out in his letter, when he is responsible for might not be possible to do so immediately—that VAT imposing huge cuts. In the letter, he also referred to the changes to allow renovation and new build should be green deal. Although the green deal is welcome, it is treated similarly. That could be a Government policy, inadequate for addressing the need for energy efficiency because it would address the renovation backlog, including in people’s homes. that in the private sector. In a second letter, the Minister stated: Chris Williamson: The right hon. Gentleman makes a “Throughout the spending review the Government has been pertinent point with which I entirely concur. Earlier, he guided by a commitment to fairness, protecting the most vulnerable people in our society and as far as possible protecting frontline reiterated comments made by other hon. Members services.” about the important of flexibility to deal with empty homes. It is important that we put on the record what a However, the reality is that the cuts are impacting wonderful scheme the decent homes project was and disproportionately on the poorest people in society. note the £40 billion investment. The decent homes Local authorities with the greatest needs are bearing the programme has delivered more than 700,000 new kitchens biggest cuts, so I wonder how the Minister can square and 525,000 new bathrooms for tenants throughout the that statement with the reality of their funding decisions. country. One million people have received new central I am running short of time, so I will conclude by heating systems and 750,000 people have had their simply saying that if we compare the policies being homes rewired. It has certainly gone a long way to pursued by the present Government with those of my address the legacy of dilapidation that the Labour right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne Government inherited from the previous Conservative (John Healey), when he was the Minister with responsibility Administration, which was in power from 1979 to 1997, for housing, hon. Members will see that he published a and 92% of the country’s social housing stock meets the paper that would have enabled the decent homes programme decent homes standard. It has helped to regenerate to have been completed. His proposal would have ensured local areas, and it has particularly helped to address the that local authorities could keep 100% of the capital problem of low demand. receipts and would have seen an expectation that at least The Chartered Institute of Housing has said: 75% of those receipts were reinvested in housing. That would have been a boost not only for the people living “The setting of the standard, the ten-year target, the allocation of the resources and the near achievement of the target can be in those areas, but for the construction sector and jobs. regarded as a major success story”. It would have helped to deliver the Government’s stated The National Housing Federation has said that the intention of a private sector-led recovery. There are programme has many questions that the Minister needs to answer in relation to this whole agenda because, if the ambition “undoubtedly helped to raise the quality of homes benefiting of a private sector-led recovery is to be realised and if millions of tenants.” the interests of tenants are to be met, the Government However, as hon. Members have said today and, indeed, need to consider a significant change in direction. as the recommendations from the Committee’s report point out, there is still more to do. The standard should include a minimum energy efficiency rating, which is 5.14 pm clearly important. The backlog needs to be cleared, and The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant there should be funding to deliver both new homes and Shapps): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship the maintenance of and improvements to existing stock. this afternoon, Mr Bone. I congratulate the hon. Member The think-tank for London Councils has pointed out for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) on securing the that London Councils remains concerned about the debate—or, rather, the Backbench Committee on funding shortfall to deliver the decent homes programme. nominating it and the Chairman of the Select Committee As my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, on securing it. It has been a high-quality debate and, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) pointed out, London alone after listening to it for the past three hours, I know why. needs £2.5 billion to complete the programme, and It started with a political back and forth in the opening about 10% of London’s stock is below the standard, few minutes, but it then settled down to be a most which represents 46% of the national total. That is a intelligent and well argued debate, with people who are major issue that clearly needs to be addressed. passionate about social housing. It has been very good. In a series of letters to the Chair of the Committee, In that spirit, I will follow the same path. the Minister stated that Let us get the politics out of the way. We know that “the Government is constrained in its ability to commit to specific the money had run out and that it was no longer housing policies, including the way forward for tackling poor possible to continue borrowing money we did not have housing and energy efficiency.” to build a greater deficit that our children and their kids He went on to state in that letter, which he sent in July: would carry on paying for the rest of their lives. Something “The Government’s key priority is to devolve power from had to change. When the hon. Member for Sheffield Whitehall to people, neighbourhoods, communities and…institutions”. South East spoke about “our cuts,” I had to resist 191WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 192WH shouting back, “But they are not ‘our’ cuts!”; they are stage, is to do precisely what he says. It is an excellent the cuts that the previous Administration were not idea and one of the very good suggestions that have prepared to make. been made. I am delighted that that is out of the way, because I My hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and can now start to address, in as much detail as possible, Wallington (Tom Brake) raised the issue—perhaps he the excellent comments that have been made this afternoon. did this inadvertently, but it also came up in a later I shall preface my comments by saying that, despite the exchange—of the value of ALMOs versus housing economic environment in which we find ourselves, the associations versus local authorities. I do not particularly decent homes programme has not been cut by anywhere want to enter into this debate, other than to say that, near as much as the Chair of the Select Committee from a Government perspective, I have a completely suggested. I want to pick him up on his twice-repeated neutral view on whether an ALMO is better than a local claim that there has been a 50% reduction to the programme. authority or a housing association. Indeed, there have That is untrue. A reduction was made to the programme been some very interesting exchanges throughout the under the previous Administration. My predecessor, afternoon, and they have all been argued from the the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne individual perspectives of constituency MPs. We know (John Healey), raided the programme for £150 million that, at certain times, an ALMO can be very good or in—I speak from memory—July 2009 to pay something very bad, and the same can be said about a local towards the so-called housing pledge, which is the new authority or a housing association. build programme. That was the first cut to the decent There are even arguments about the size of housing homes programme. associations, from vast conglomerates—I have a great I think I am right in saying that some £319 million deal of sympathy with some of the comments about the was indicatively signalled to have been spent on the distances sometimes involved—to some small ones. In programme, but, despite these economic times and some my experience, having travelled around the country a tough decisions, we are still spending just over £2 billion lot, looking at different types of housing, there is no on decent homes, which, thinking back to the spending single prescription for the right size or shape of organisation review, is more than most commentators thought likely. to run housing. It is divided into about £1.6 billion to local authorities The hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) made and £500 million to help some of the organisations that a number of interesting points. I was impressed in are in transition having left local authorities. I just particular by her comments on the quality of the wanted to put that on record. It could be argued that environment and on how important design is to the way the reduction is 15% or 20%, but not 50%. people feel, which was picked up again by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark Mr Betts: I have a note based on information from (Simon Hughes), when he talked about walking into a the scrutiny unit of the House, which indicated that the block of flats and how the entranceway can make all the reduction was from £2.6 billion over three years to difference. £2 billion over four. It said that that was a cut of The hon. Member for Stockport also made the point 42% without taking account of inflation, so I think that about walking into the home of someone who has had my figure of a 50% cut is about right. the decent homes work done—the delighted tenant—and sharing in that delight. I am sure that, as constituency MPs, we have all been in that position. I put it on record Grant Shapps: We could knock these figures back that, in the previous Parliament, I was the Conservative and forth, but I reject the idea that the cut is about 50%. Opposition Member who represented the most council I accept, however, that more money needs to be spent tenants in the country—I have not checked for this on decent homes. Parliament. On many occasions, however, I have walked into a kitchen or bathroom and been greeted by the Chris Williamson: Will the Minister give way? delighted tenant. It is an absolute pleasure. I also put it on record that I believe in the decent Grant Shapps: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will homes programme. It was an achievement of the previous not mind my making a little progress. Others have Government. I accept the comments of the hon. Member spoken for a lot longer than I will get to respond to the for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) and others, including the many points that have been raised. hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson), that it probably started four years too late, but it did a We are putting in £2.1 billion, but I would estimate lot of good work. I also accept the arguments of the that we need about £3.5 billion to truly finish the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) and programme. I expect that, by April, about 210,000 others, that it sometimes carries on doing work where it homes will still be in need of decent homes funding, and is not quite required to do so, or doing it in a uniform or the programme throughout this Parliament may cover almost machine-like fashion, at times unnecessarily ripping about 150,000 of them. out perfectly good accommodation or facilities, as The Chair of the Select Committee also asked for mentioned by other Members. greater flexibility for local authorities to, for example, My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton put in a boiler but charge 0.5% more rent. That is a very South West (Paul Uppal) talked about the importance sensible suggestion and it requires no intervention from of apprenticeships. I absolutely agree with what I thought me. Local authorities are absolutely within their rights was a thoughtful contribution from him. We have a to do that. The guideline rents that we currently provide great opportunity, with today’s economic backdrop, to mean that they already have flexibility, and the direction ensure that local skills are being used or upgraded of policy in the Localism Bill, which is at Committee to provide improvements for people’s homes. It is the 193WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 194WH
[Grant Shapps] right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne. One upshot of that will be an ability to plan for the renovation, perfect mix and combination, given the opportunity of repair and renewal of local authority stock for the next the £2 billion-plus to ensure that it happens in the 30 years. I am very keen, as the hon. Member for future. Lewisham East pointed out, to get that provision through, and I look forward to support from right across the The hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) House in securing the progress of that part of the Bill. I made a number of interesting points about estates still do say to the hon. Lady that Lewisham’s chief executive requiring regeneration. I offer to engage with the hon. could perhaps make a personal contribution by reducing Lady to listen to the problems and to be of as much his £192,000 salary. Times are tough, and I would have assistance as possible. It is not easy, the money does not thought, as other Members have pointed out, that that exist and we have had to make difficult decisions, as she would be a very good place to start. and everyone else appreciates. However, I wanted to correct one point in the hon. The hon. Member for Islington North raised the Lady’s speech, when she seemed to suggest she believed point about two-star ALMOs. I have talked about how that the local authority would have to contribute the system was unfair, and I am pleased to sweep it 10% towards the costs of decent homes. That is not aside. In addition, I really do not mind if local authorities what the Government said. I said that if more than 10% want to continue to manage their stock for ever. That is of repairs were needed in order to reach decent homes entirely their business, and this Government will cease standard—if there were more than 10% non-decent the tricks of pushing local authority stocks into different stock, in other words, which I believe would be the case forms of management. I sense from this debate that in Lewisham—authorities can apply for decent homes there is cross-party agreement on that matter, on the funding. It is not that they are then expected to pitch in part of many MPs. The hon. Gentleman also mentioned 10%, although in fact it might be a good idea for them the subject of ending lifetime tenure, and affordable to do so. I just wanted to ensure that that got on the rent, which he and I have discussed previously. The record. most important thing that we can do is to provide more homes and upgrade the homes that we have.
Tom Brake: The Minister mentioned estates that still I have judged that, given that the previous Government need renovation. Can he confirm that it would be put £17 billion into building more homes, after 13 years strange if ALMOs with two stars, which put a programme they ended up with a net loss of 45,000 homes. Yes, to Government that demonstrated their capacity to there was the right to buy and yes, pathfinder knocked deliver and carry out that estate renovation, were not down homes, but if we tried to use that maths again, we given some priority in the bids? would discover that we needed £50 billion to £100 billion from the Treasury simply to build more homes in that way. In other words, something was not working, and Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is right to point out we needed to find a different solution. Affordable rent is that what should count is the quality of the organisation, my version of that solution. We can now use the additional its ability to deliver and the need on the ground. I feel money, in the way that the Chairman of the Select strongly that it is wrong to penalise tenants for whom it Committee suggested we do for renovation, for building is almost impossible to do anything about the lousy more homes, and that will be a sensible step forward. management of their property, because they happen to have a useless landlord, and then penalise them again My hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky for that very fact. Morgan) made a number of important points, about the additional amounts of money sometimes required My hon. Friend’s wish will come through in the work for homes built in different types of fabric—I know that will be done by the Homes and Communities that the Homes and Communities Agency will take that Agency in assessing those bids, which will be taken issue on board—and, in common with several other further next month. It seems natural that those organisations Members, about round 6 bidding. Round 6 was never that are well run and have a good plan will be more approved, so no one on the ground should have ever successful within the limited resources. If they are good, thought it was definitely going ahead. I will be meeting they are good. I do not think that two stars necessarily the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian means that an organisation is good; it can all too often Greenwood), and I make the same offer to my hon. mean that it is good at ticking the right boxes, and Friend and to Members across the House, to meet to employing too many consultants on too high a salary to talk about the issues and the possible ways forward. jump through hoops, which is irrelevant to the lives of people on the ground. I am sure, however, that there will I thought that one of the best speeches of the afternoon be a correlation. was made by the hon. Member for Vauxhall, who rightly pointed out so many of the common-sense realities In response to the hon. Member for Lewisham East, of housing, and whose speech was devoid of any political and to the many Members who raised this issue, the back and forth. Many of the same issues were raised by revenue account will be a vital part of the reform other Members, but I thought that hers was a great package. We have established that in our view the country contribution. does not have the money to completely finish the decent homes programmes—to make significant further progress In response to the hon. Member for Nottingham during this Parliament—but we can carry out housing South, I can say that I have visited Nottingham City revenue account reform, and we are legislating for that Homes and have even had its chief executive, Chris right now in the Localism Bill, building on the work Langstaff, to my office here in Parliament. I know the undertaken in the consultation by my predecessor, the great work that the organisation does, and I know 195WH Decent Homes27 JANUARY 2011 Decent Homes 196WH that that work will be able to continue. With the flexibility My right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey that we are now providing through localism, with and Old Southwark made a great contribution. He and money going locally rather than through larger regional I have discussed housing on many occasions. organisations, and through the housing revenue account reform, organisations such as Nottingham City Homes 5.30 pm will be able to continue to upgrade homes, albeit at Sitting adjourned without Question put (Standing Order perhaps a slightly different pace. No. 10(11)).
15WS Written Ministerial Statements27 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS
Communication from the Commission: towards a Single Written Ministerial Market Act The Council held an exchange of views on the Single Statements Market Act which was published on 27 October 2010 and is out for consultation until 28 February 2011. Ministers had a positive discussion and agreed that it Thursday 27 January 2011 would be important for ECOFIN to continue to engage on those issues that are led by Finance Ministers. The Government support the single market and believe that future reforms should be strongly focused on measures BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS that encourage growth. The Council agreed to re-examine the issue in due course. Follow-up to the December European Council meeting Workplace Disputes Reforms The Council took note of the presidency’s plans for the follow-up to the European Council’s meeting on 16 and 17 December which called for work on legislative The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and proposals aimed at strengthening EU economic governance Skills (Vince Cable): Today the Government have to be accelerated, so that they can be adopted by June announced the next steps in our comprehensive review this year. of employment laws. We have launched a consultation on proposals to improve the way workplace disputes are Annual Growth Survey resolved and published an “Employer’s Charter” to give The Council held an exchange of views on a presentation employers more confidence to take on workers and by the Commission, which covered the main elements support growth. of its annual growth survey published on 12 January. The adoption by the European Commission of the annual In the consultation we are seeking views on measures growth survey will mark the beginning of the first cycle to achieve more early resolution of workplace disputes of the European semester. The Government are content so that parties can resolve their own problems, in a way with the Commission’s focus on growth, in line with that is fair and equitable for both sides, without having objectives for the single market. ECOFIN will agree to go to an employment tribunal; ensure that, where Council conclusions on this in February. parties do need to come to an employment tribunal, the process is as swift, user friendly and effective as possible; Review of draft National Reform Programmes (NRPs) and help business feel more confident about hiring Ministers discussed a review of member states’ draft people (by increasing the qualifying period for employees national reform programmes (NRPs) which set out to be able to bring a claim for unfair dismissal from one member states’reform priorities and plans. The Government to two years). are content with the Commission’s positive assessment of the UK draft NRPs and believe that the focus of all The Employer’s Charter tackles the myth that member states NRPs should be on tackling bottlenecks employment protections are all one-way—towards the to growth. In March the spring European Council will employee. It clearly sets out the most important rights provide guidance to member states for finalisation of that employers already have in the workplace. their stability and convergence programmes (budgetary The consultation will close after 12 weeks on 20 April policies) and national reform programmes (structural 2011. During the consultation period we will seek views reforms). Full NRPs are due in April. from a range of interested parties. Following consideration Implementation of the Stability and Growth Pact of the responses to the consultation, we will publish a The Council concluded that action by Malta to reduce Government response, setting out what we intend to its excessive deficit represented adequate progress. take forward. Introduction of the euro in Estonia: Practical experience Copies of the consultation document have been placed The presidency noted that the introduction of the in the Libraries of both Houses. euro in Estonia had gone very smoothly, and warm congratulations were extended.
TREASURY ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Public Forest Estate ECOFIN The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): I have today The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): published a public consultation on the future of the The Economic and Financial Affairs Council was held public forest estate in England. A copy of the consultation in Brussels on 18 January 2011. The following items document is available through the DEFRA website were discussed: (www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/index.htm) and the Presentation of the Presidency Work Programme Forestry Commission website (www.forestry.gov.uk/ Hungarian Finance Minister Matolcsy presented the england-pfe-consultation) and I have placed copies in presidency work programme for ECOFIN for the first the Libraries of both Houses. half of 2011. He identified his main priorities as the The public forest estate in England is around 258,000 European semester, economic governance, financial services hectares of Government-owned land managed by the and the creation of the European stability mechanism. Forestry Commission. It represents less than one fifth 17WS Written Ministerial Statements27 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS of the woodlands of England, with the majority of the strengthen the protection of public benefits through the remainder in private and voluntary sector ownership. withdrawal from sale of woodlands with significant The estate was started at a time of national crisis after areas of unrestored plantations on ancient woodland the first world war, with severe shortages of timber and sites. a woodland resource depleted to less than 5% of the land area in Great Britain. In line with the Government’s broad policy to effect a FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE shift from big Government to big society, the consultation sets out the rationale for reducing state ownership and management of forest resources. The status quo is not General Affairs Council/Foreign Affairs Council an option. There is a fundamental conflict of interest in the Forestry Commission’s role. It is the largest player in the commercial forestry sector, a sector it also regulates. The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): The The Government’s approach to looking at new models Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council of ownership and management of the public forest will meet in Brussels on 31 January. My Right hon. estate in England will be underpinned by a set of key Friend the Foreign Secretary will attend the Foreign principles that are designed to protect public access and Affairs Council. I will attend the General Affairs Council. other public benefits that so many enjoy.The Government’s GENERAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL (GAC) proposals, on which the consultation seeks views, are Hungarian Presidency for a mixed approach which includes: The Hungarian Foreign Minister will formally introduce recognising that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to the Hungary’s presidency priorities (see link below). Hungary different types of woodland and forestry; intends to focus on three economic issues: the need to inviting new or existing charitable organisations to take on conclude discussions regarding the design of the new ownership or management of the heritage forests in order to “European Stability Mechanism”; the need to reach a secure their public benefits future generations to enjoy; general approach on the economic governance package; creating opportunities for community and civil society groups and to reach final agreement on EU 2020. Other topics to buy or lease forests that they wish to own or manage; and expected to be highlighted include pushing for a issuing long-term leases on the large-scale commercially Commission strategy on Roma; beginning discussions valuable forests. By leasing rather than selling, it will be on the Danube strategy; working towards entry into possible to ensure that the public can continue to enjoy their Schengen by Bulgaria and Romania; enlargement; and benefits. creating concrete projects to promote the eastern The Government are committed to the ongoing provision partnership. and protection of the public benefits provided by the http://www.eu2011.hu/priorities-hungarian-presidency public forest estate. The policy we are consulting on shows how we intend to achieve this. We will ensure that Follow-up to the December European Council and the powers in the Public Bodies Bill reflect our policy preparations for the February European Council objectives, so that the powers and duties within it are The presidency has invited the President of the Council, strengthened to safeguard the natural and social capital Herman Van Rompuy, to discuss preparations for the our forests provide now and for future generations. This European Council of 4 February. The February European would apply to the powers of sale, lease and management Council agenda covers energy and innovation. Discussions of the public forest estate. The consultation proposes should focus on the “Energy 2020” strategy (further that conditions will be attached to leases so that access detail below) and how to increase levels of innovation and other public benefits are protected. We will consider: in the private sector. There may also be some discussion introducing a general duty on the Government to have of economic governance and the European stabilisation regard to the maintenance of public benefits when exercising mechanism, although they are not officially on the the powers under the Bill; February European Council agenda. exempting the most iconic heritage forests from the full More information on this meeting, and other EU range of options so that for example, the Forest of Dean or meetings this month, can be found at: the New Forest could only be transferred to a charitable http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ organisation or remain in public ownership, in line with the policy as set out in the consultation. docs/pressdata/en/fc/118910.pdf The Forestry Commission will play an important role Details about the “Energy 2020” strategy can be in supporting the wider forestry sector—through its found at: regulatory, grant-giving, research and expert advisory http://ec.europa.eu/energy/publications/doc/ roles—to provide a wide range of public benefits. 2011_energy2020_en.pdf The consultation relates to 85% of the public forest European Semester: Annual Growth Survey estate. The remaining 15% is covered by the spending Ministers will consider the European semester. The review settlement, announced in October 2010. European semester will put EU and member state I am today publishing tightened criteria for those discussions of economic priorities and structural reforms sales under the Forestry Commission’s programme to on a common timetable. There will also be a presentation deliver £100 million in gross receipts during 2011-15. by the presidency of the Annual Growth Survey (AGS) During 2010, the Forestry Commission’s asset disposal which covers key economic themes for the EU and programme continued under criteria established by the national action over 2011, and identifies priorities to previous Administration. At the end of 2010, pending tackle. There will not be conclusions on the AGS, as the review of the sales criteria, Ministers withdrew some main work will be carried out by other Council formations: sites from sale. The new criteria have been amended to namely ECOFIN and EPSCO. We broadly support the 19WS Written Ministerial Statements27 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS focus on growth. Alongside fiscal consolidation and a strategy in principle; a comprehensive EU approach on more competitive financial sector, a comprehensive security and development strands in the Sahel is worthwhile, structural reform programme will be essential to improving as underlined by the kidnap and murder of two French competitiveness. nationals in Niamey on 7/8 January. However, any UK Roma final support would depend on a detailed analysis of the strategy—which we have not yet seen in full—and The presidency is expected to initiate a procedural its resource implications. discussion on future work on the Roma ahead of an April Commission presentation of a framework strategy Freedom of Religion on Roma inclusion. The Government support this In response to the recent attacks against religious discussion and work in the EU to share best practice communities in a number of countries, we expect and assist member states in promoting Roma inclusion. conclusions to be adopted on the issue of “Intolerance, However, we are also clear that primary responsibility discrimination and violence on the basis of religion or for the Roma lies with member states and that there belief”. We believe these conclusions should send a cannot be a one-size-fits-all approach. strong statement of the Council’s condemnation of Danube Region Strategy these events and its commitment to upholding the right The Danube region strategy is a complex sustainable to freedom of religion or belief. We also believe that the development strategy for the regions in the catchment conclusions should signal the European Union’s area of the Danube river. It covers: transport/economic/ determination to promote freedom of religious belief industrial issues; environmental/food supply; and cultural/ through a clear commitment to undertake further practical heritage/education. The UK broadly welcomes the strategy, measures in this area. although a full evaluation of the projects is needed. Belarus FOREIGN AFFAIRS COUNCIL (FAC) We expect conclusions to: reiterate EU statements to Sudan date on the flawed December elections; to announce the FAC’s decision to impose travel restrictions and asset We expect conclusions welcoming the timely, credible freezes on those responsible for the fraudulent elections and peaceful conduct of the southern Sudan referendum and for the subsequent violent crackdown on the as a crucial step in implementing the Comprehensive opposition, civil society and representatives of the Peace Agreement (CPA). The conclusions should also independent media; and to set out the EU’s intention to look forward to the publication of the results of the support the Belarusian people and civil society. The referendum, and emphasise the need for resolution of Government’s aim is to focus the discussion on the need the remaining CPA issues. to develop a coherent, long-term strategy for Belarus. On Darfur. we believe that the conclusions should Baroness Ashton made a statement on Belarus to the express concern about the increasing violence and poor European Parliament on 19 January: security situation in Darfur, and the need for genuine engagement by all parties in the peace process. We http://europa.eu/rapid/ support proposals for a Darfur-based political process pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/11/ when the conditions are right, and which complement 34&format=HTML&aged=0&language=en&guiLanguage=en the ongoing Doha process. Strategic Partners Lebanon Baroness Ashton is expected to provide a short debrief Ministers will discuss latest developments in Lebanon on her presentation to the December European Council following the collapse of the Lebanese Government. on the EU’s relations with its strategic partners, setting The EU’s support for the special tribunal in Lebanon out next steps in this work programme. was most recently expressed in the November 2010 Russia conclusions (see link below). At this stage, new conclusions are not expected, though the position could change We expect Ministers to discuss the formation of a depending on events on the ground. more balanced partnership between the EU and Russia; one which promotes and strengthens mutual prosperity http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ and is underpinned by a legally-binding, ambitious new docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/117948.pdf EU-Russia agreement. It is likely that frozen conflicts in Côte d’Ivoire the former Soviet Union will be discussed, including the We expect conclusions expressing concern over the need for pressure on Russia to deliver on Transnistria. situation in Côte d’Ivoire. We would like the conclusions Climate change and energy, and rule of law and to call for the peaceful and swift transfer of power from modernisation in Russia are also likely to be raised. the former President Gbagbo to the elected President Ministers will address the human rights situation in Ouattara and to reiterate our support for the robust Russia, following a number of recent, well-publicised stance taken by ECOWAS (the Economic Community cases of concern. There will also be discussion of how of West African States) and the African Union in to deliver progress on the EU-Russia agreement, improve upholding democracy in the region and throughout the the architecture of EU-Russia co-operation, and improve continent. Ministers may also discuss EU support to internal EU working methods on Russia policies. UNOCI (United Nations Operation in Côte d’Ivoire) Additionally, Ministers may reflect on the shocking and African initiatives to facilitate reconciliation. act of terrorism at Moscow’s Domodedovo airport on Sahel 24 January. The Foreign Secretary’s statement on this The EU Sahel strategy is currently being developed can be seen at the link below. by the European External Action Service in conjunction http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/ with the EU Commission. We are supportive of this ?view=News&id=539155782 21WS Written Ministerial Statements27 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS
Iran Justice and Home Affairs Council Baroness Ashton is likely to provide an update on the E3 plus 3 talks with Iran in Istanbul on 21-22 January. Due to Iran’s insistence on unacceptable pre-conditions, The Secretary of State for the Home Department no further talks are scheduled. Following the talks in (Mrs Theresa May): My right hon. and learned Friend Istanbul, Baroness Ashton released a statement on behalf the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice of the E3 plus 3 on 21 January: and I attended the informal Justice and Home Affairs http://www.consilium.europa.eu./uedocs/cms_Data/ Council on 20 and 21 January in Gödöllo. docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/118915.pdf Discussions on the Interior day centred on two themes: We are also hope there will be a discussion of proposed “Internal Security: combining efforts in combating EU measures to tackle Iran’s poor human rights record. organised crime” and “comprehensive security through integrated border management”. Tunisia The Commission opened the item on organised crime Ministers will discuss EU support for Tunisia following by highlighting cybercrime and asset recovery; they felt recent events. We expect conclusions to be adopted there was a need to focus on the exchange of best which call for a stable and inclusive transition to elections practice. The Chair of the European Parliament LIBE as soon as practicable, and restate the EU’s support for Committee suggested that proving the effectiveness of political and economic reform in Tunisia. The Government the EU in the security field was one of the biggest consider that free and fair elections, as promised by challenges for the EU. The Europol director gave a Tunisia’s interim Government, are essential for Tunisia’s preview of their organised crime threat assessment noting stability; and we firmly support EU assistance in this an increasing risk in particular in relation to the infiltration area. of the legal economy and facilitation of illegal activity Middle East Peace Process by the internet. There was an increasing use of aircraft Baroness Ashton will report back from her recent and helicopters for smuggling of goods, use of minors trip to the middle east (see link), and outline preparations for petty crime and sexual exploitation, an upsurge in for the 5 February Quartet meeting in Munich. We also counterfeiting and a largely unnoticed trade in endangered expect her to update Ministers on progress for proposals species. Interpol highlighted the ability of organised to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza that crime to destabilise whole countries and gave the example were agreed at the FAC in December 2010. of cocaine trafficking via West Africa. http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ The UK said that it recognised organised crime as a docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/118717.pdf real threat alongside counter-terrorism and would be developing a new strategy. In particular the UK acknowledged cybercrime as requiring particular attention, although it was often old crimes committed by new HOME DEPARTMENT methods. The UK welcomed practical co-operation, rather than legislation, and agreed with the presidency that we needed to look imaginatively at ways of tackling Forensic Science Research and Development crime, including seizure of assets. Most member states thought further work on asset-freezing, confiscation and sharing was a priority and welcomed the Commission’s The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the commitment to bring forward a report on the issues in Home Department (James Brokenshire): I am today the second half of 2011. announcing a review, led by the Home Office chief scientific adviser, Professor Bernard Silverman, of research The Commission opened the second session by and development in forensic science. highlighting action they were taking. They would forward a border package over the next year, including looking Research and development in forensic science is essential at an EU electronic system for travel authorisation to ensure the continued availability of a high-quality, (ESTA) and a proposal on a European border surveillance efficient, forensic science capability for the criminal system (EUROSUR). They also saw a need to finalise justice system. discussion on the new Frontex regulation and to reform The purpose of the review is to consider the current the Schengen evaluation mechanism. Frontex, the EU’s and likely future status of research and development External Borders Agency, felt that priorities were better relevant to forensic services for the criminal justice inter-agency co-operation, situational awareness and system within England and Wales. The scope will include, targeted co-operation at the border. Frontex also needed but not be limited to, fingerprints, DNA profiling, to be able to do more on capacity building and returns digital forensics (e-forensics) and more specialist aspects with third countries. of forensic science. The UK stated that it was correct to focus on integrated The review will consult widely with forensic service management of the border and supported the Greek providers and related organisations in the public and action plan, which was critical to the EU’s collective private sectors, academia and research funders, as well success. For the UK modern technologies were a key as issuing an open call for submissions of evidence. The part of a 21st century response to maintain border review will also work closely with the National Policing security while facilitating legitimate travel. For that Improvement Agency and police service customers. It is reason the UK supported the philosophy behind EU expected that the review will conclude in April 2011. proposals for registered travellers and an entry-exit The full terms of reference for the review will be scheme and, given our experience, the introduction of published on the Home Office website today and a copy biometric visas. We were concerned about the UK’s will be placed in the Library. exclusion from the proposal for the Schengen evaluation 23WS Written Ministerial Statements27 JANUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS mechanism. The e-borders system allowed the UK to of judicial training and the Commission has committed focus resources and evidence suggested that intra-EU to producing a communication on training of legal flights were important and hoped that would be covered practitioners in September 2011. The majority of member by the new EU passenger name records measure. In states, including the UK, did not favour creation of a subsequent discussion many member states highlighted new training institution, preferring to build on existing the use of technology as important and in particular structures including the European Judicial Training interoperability of technologies. Many welcomed the Network. The UK welcomed the intention of improving Commission proposals for amendment to the Schengen judges’ knowledge of EU law and each others’ systems evaluation mechanism and thought that greater use and particularly the Commission’s recognition that it needed to be made of Frontex. would have to accommodate very different systems. The Justice day began with a discussion on a Communication published by the Commission entitled “EU Citizenship: how to dismantle the obstacles to EU JUSTICE citizens’ rights?” This sets out what the Commission considers to be the obstacles EU citizens face when trying to exercise their rights across national borders Data Protection Legislative Framework and suggests actions to tackle them. Among other things, the presidency invited discussion about whether the Justice and Home Affairs Council should adopt an The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice oversight role over the actions suggested in the report, (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): My right hon. Friend the but this gained little support. The UK welcomed the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice, Lord McNally, overview the Commission report provided and highlighted has made the following written ministerial statement: criminal justice as an area where we needed absolute Tomorrow, I will publish the Government’s response to the confidence in others’ systems. The UK suggested that Call for Evidence on current data protection law which was held the Commission should also focus on making it easier between July and October 2010. for individuals and businesses to enforce civil debts The Call for Evidence sought evidence about areas of the across borders. European Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC and the Data Protection Act 1998 that may be out of date or could be improved, Ministers were also asked what they considered to be and also those areas that are working well and should be retained. the key elements of the proposal on Succession and Over 160 responses were received from across the public, private Wills in simplifying citizens’ rights. This gave rise to a and third sectors, consumer groups and members of the public. substantial debate. The UK reiterated its concerns with The evidence received will help to inform the UK’s position for this proposal. the forthcoming negotiations on a new comprehensive EU instrument for data protection. A proposal for this instrument is expected Over lunch, the presidency held a discussion on the from the European Commission in mid-2011. role of the Council in ensuring the effective implementation At the same time as publishing this response, the Government of the charter of fundamental rights in the legislative will publish a post-implementation review impact assessment of process. Their paper raised the question whether there the Data Protection Act 1998, having received comments on the was a need for further Council processes to verify provisional document published alongside the Call for Evidence. member states’ compliance with the charter. The UK, The post-implementation review primarily aimed to assess the together with a number of other member states, questioned costs and benefits the Act has generated, but findings from the whether there was sufficient support for the presidency’s review will also contribute to the UK’s evidence base for negotiations on a revised EU legal instrument. proposal to be taken forward. Copies of the response to the Call for Evidence paper and the Next, there was a discussion on “Judicial training: post-implementation review impact assessment will be placed in how to improve training of legal professionals in the the Libraries of both Houses and on the Department’s website at: EU”. The Stockholm programme stressed the importance www.justice.gov.uk.
395W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 396W
We encourage staff to talk to a counsellor on a Written Answers to routine basis every six months to ensure they continue to cope in the environment and when they leave Questions Afghanistan, we have routine debriefing procedures to ensure they have the support they need to cope with returning from a difficult environment. Thursday 27 January 2011 The policies apply to all staff regardless of rank and pay grade. DFID does not publicise staff numbers for its overseas offices and does not hold a record of expenditure solely INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT associated with decompression.
Bangladesh: Poverty Departmental Procurement
Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for International Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Development what recent discussions he has had with International Development what single tender contracts the government of Bangladesh on its plans to reduce his Department has awarded since his appointment; poverty; and if he will make a statement. [36173] and what the monetary value is of each contract above the EU public procurement threshold. [36189] Mr Duncan: Her Excellency Sheikh Hasina, Prime Minister of Bangladesh, is visiting London this week Mr Duncan: The Department for International and has had discussions with our Prime Minister, Deputy Development (DFID) has not issued any single tender Prime Minister and ministerial colleagues. I met her contracts for a value above the EU public procurement and the Bangladeshi Foreign Minister, Dr Dipu Moni, threshold since the Secretary of State’s appointment. yesterday. We had a good discussion about the future DFID has delegated procurement below the EU public scale and scope of UK aid to Bangladesh. UK aid will procurement threshold to its global offices. Details of be directed at helping Bangladesh achieve its poverty any single tenders issued are not centrally recorded and reduction goals, including better services in education cannot be provided without disproportionate cost. and health for the poorest, especially women. We agreed Developing Countries: Females on the importance of transparency and a strong focus on results. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Conditions of Employment International Development what proportion of his Department’s budget for overseas projects was spent on projects aiming to assist women and girls in the last Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for three years for which figures are available. [36240] International Development (1) how much his Department spent on decompression of employees in each year from Mr O’Brien: Achieving results for women and girls is 2005 to 2010; [36499] one of the Department for International Development’s (2) how many of his Department’s employees were (DFID’s) six strategic priorities. DFID aims to assist subject to decompression schemes in each year from women and girls throughout its project portfolio and 2005 to 2010; [36500] also supports projects targeting specific issues related to (3) how much his Department spent on women and girls and gender equality. Due to the cross decompression of employees who had been stationed cutting nature of gender policy is not possible to in Afghanistan in each year from 2005 to 2010; [36501] disaggregate a precise figure for total expenditure on (4) how many of his Department’s employees who projects aiming to assist women and girls. had been stationed in Afghanistan were subject to Developing Countries: Microfinance decompression schemes in each year from 2005 to 2010; [36502] Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for (5) what his Department’s policy is on International Development what proportion of his decompression of employees who have been stationed Department’s budget for overseas projects was spent on in Afghanistan; and whether there is a variation in microfinance projects for (a) both men and women and policy according to rank or pay grade. [36503] (b) women only in the last three years for which figures are available. [36237] Mr Duncan: The Department for International Development’s (DFID) decompression policies and Mr O’Brien: The requested information cannot be procedures support our employees who live and work in provided without incurring disproportionate cost. The conflict zones. This allows them to have regular time Department for International Development (DFID) away from the conflict zone and the opportunity to does not hold consolidated data on expenditure on access support services. microfinance programmes as a proportion of the total DFID’s policy on decompression of employees in overseas aid budget. Nor does DFID hold consolidated Afghanistan is that employees spend six weeks in country data on expenditure on microfinance projects by gender. and two weeks out of country. They also have the option of three weeks in country and one week out of Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for country, provided that the total cost and time away do International Development what recent assessment he not exceed the costs for the six weeks/two weeks policy. has made of the effectiveness of microfinance projects 397W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 398W in contributing to progress towards Millennium Overseas Aid: Gift Aid Development Goal Three: to promote gender equality and empower women. [36239] Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what estimate he has made Mr O’Brien: Financial inclusion programmes supported of the aid classified as official development assistance by the Department for International Development (DFID) (ODA) provided by UK non-governmental organisations demonstrate the positive impact that microfinance can funded through Gift Aid contributions in each year have on women’s empowerment. For example, DFID since 2007-08; and what method he used to estimate the supports the Kashf Foundation in Pakistan, which proportion of UK ODA attributable to gift aided provides financial services to women from low income contributions. [34635] communities. An assessment of the programme found that: 60% of clients took out loans to start new businesses; Mr Duncan: The level of official development assistance 34% of long-term clients experienced improvement in provided by UK non-governmental organisations funded their economic situation; two-thirds increased their savings; through Gift Aid is published in the Department for and women’s increased ability to contribute to the family International Development’s (DFID) annual publication income improved their status within the household. “Statistics on International Development”which is available We cannot assume, however, that women’s empowerment on the DFID website and in the Library of the House. is an automatic outcome of microfinance programmes. The relevant figures for 2007-08 to 2009-10 are shown DFID is producing a toolkit to strengthen the design, in the following table. These figures are estimated using implementation and measurement of programmes to returns provided by relevant organisations to DFID’s empower women through improved financial inclusion. Voluntary Agency Survey, conducted annually. The toolkit will be launched in spring 2011. Financial year £000 Equality: Females 2007-08 43,672 2008-09 43,857 Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps he plans to take 2009-10 43,891 to support women and girls and reduce gender inequality after the expiry of his Department’s Gender Equality Action Plan in March 2011. [36353] ATTORNEY-GENERAL Departmental Procurement Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) business plan sets out how we Jon Trickett: To ask the Attorney-General what will lead international action to improve the lives of single tender contracts the Law Officers’ Departments girls and women in the period 2011-15 including by: have awarded since his appointment; and what the improving maternal health and access to family planning; monetary value is of each contract above the EU increasing the number of girls completing primary and secondary public procurement threshold. [36176] education; promoting their economic empowerment through jobs and The Attorney-General: The CPS has only awarded access to financial services; and two single tender contracts since May 2010, the details tackling violence against women and girls. of which are as follows: DFID’s business plan is available on the No. 10 A contract for the services of a Management Receiver was website and in the Library of the House. awarded to a firm in December 2010. At the time of the award specific details of the case were confidential, and an open tender Overseas Aid: Fraud may have jeopardised an ongoing criminal investigation. The firm was selected from a short-list of companies who were successfully appointed to a framework contract for Management Receivers in Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010. The firm chosen to complete the work was selected based International Development how many projects funded on their experience of similar work. The value of the contract is through UK official development aid were halted due dependant on the final value of the assets confiscated. to misuse of such funds by the recipients in each year A contract for legal advisory services was awarded in September since 2007-08. [34503] 2010. The timeframe and complex nature of the work meant that it was appropriate to award a single tender contract. The value of Mr Andrew Mitchell: Since April 2007, the Department the contract is estimated at £24,000. for International Development (DFID) has stopped or The Treasury Solicitor’s Department (Tsol) internal withdrawn funds from a total of seven projects or threshold for applying a competitive process to the programmes due to fraud or other abuse: one in 2008-09, purchase of goods and services is £3,000. Purchases two in 2009-10, and four to date during 2010-11. The with a value below this figure are subject to a single total value withheld or withdrawn was £23 million. quotation/tender and value for money check, however it DFID has rigorous systems and procedures to ensure is not possible to identify most of the individual contracts effective oversight of its funding and to ensure that UK which fall into this category without incurring a aid achieves maximum value for money—reaching and disproportionate cost. delivering results for its intended recipients. As I have The majority, by value, of purchases made by Tsol previously stated, this Government have a zero tolerance are for legal services. Tsol uses the Attorney-General’s approach to fraud, corruption and other misuse. DFID Panel Counsel (barristers) and the Litigation Catalogue takes the strongest action where any such abuse of (solicitor agents and litigation support services) to call-off taxpayers’ funds is proven, including disciplinary, civil services—both of these have been subject to competition or criminal action as appropriate against those responsible. and are managed by the Department. 399W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 400W
Where legal services could not be commissioned from Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office these two panels the work may have been awarded (FCO) aims to be as clear as possible in all its subject to comparable quotations. However, where the communication. Ministers and the FCO Board launched legal timetable or specific nature of the matter made it a diplomatic excellence initiative in November 2010 unrealistic, or significantly more costly, to seek more which will ensure there is a sharper focus on the use of than one quotation the services will have been secured precise, accurate English and avoiding jargon. under a single tender arrangement. Legal services are classified as Part B services under the EU Procurement Departmental Official Cars Rules which largely exempts them from the competition obligations under the EU Public Service Contracts Regulations. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Tsol awarded a contract for the supply of additional Department has spent on services supplied by the office furniture under a single tender process in December Government Car Service since May 2010. [34660] 2010 to Herman Miller for office furniture with a value of up to £30,000 over the next three years, this fell under Alistair Burt: Foreign and Commonwealth Office the EU public procurement threshold. No other single expenditure on all car services provided by the Government awards have been made. Car and Despatch Agency covering use by officials and The remaining Law Officers’ Departments have not Ministers during the period 1 May 2010 to date is awarded any single tender contracts during this period. £121,000.
Departmental Public Appointments NORTHERN IRELAND Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Procurement Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) women and (b) men have been appointed to public duties by his Department since May 2010. [35407] Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what single tender contracts his Department Alistair Burt: Four public appointments have been has awarded since his appointment; and what the monetary made since May 2010, to three men and one woman. value is of each contract above the EU public procurement These roles were four new Commissioners to the Marshall threshold. [36191] Aid Commemoration Commission (MACC).
Mr Paterson: A single tender contract was awarded Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for in October 2010 by the Independent Commission for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what public the Location of Victims Remains as part of the successful appointments he has made since his appointment; and search for the remains of Peter Wilson, one of the to what payments each person so appointed is entitled. disappeared. My Department considered this to be [35429] appropriate due to the specialised demands of the work and the security risks associated with an open tender Alistair Burt: The Foreign Secretary has appointed process. The contract was below the EU public procurement four new Commissioners to the Marshall Aid threshold. Commemoration Commission (MACC). The MACC is a non-departmental public body of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. These positions are all unpaid. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Departmental Responsibilities Canada: Animal Cruelty Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what new (a) and Commonwealth Affairs if he will meet his units and (b) teams have been established in his Canadian counterpart to discuss animal cruelty in the Department since May 2010; and what the (i) name, (ii) operation of rodeos; and if he will make a statement. purpose, (iii) staffing level and (iv) budget for the first [36651] 12 months of operation is in each case. [34681]
Alistair Burt: Ministers currently have no plans to Alistair Burt: As required, we readjust the size, staffing raise this issue with their Canadian counterparts. Foreign and structure of teams within the Foreign and and Commonwealth Office officials have made their Commonwealth Office to meet our operational needs. Canadian counterparts aware of public concern in the We do not keep central records of each adjustment, and UK about the practice of calf-roping at rodeos. the information sought could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Departmental Communication Departmental Wines Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for taken to reduce jargon and promote plain English in Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Departmental communications. [35785] Department has spent on wine since May 2010. [34652] 401W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 402W
Mr Bellingham: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I WOMEN AND EQUALITIES gave to the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) on 29 November 2010, Official Report, Departmental Public Appointments column 552W. Since then, Government Hospitality has spent £15,039 on replenishing stocks of English and Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for Women French white wines. and Equalities what public appointments she has made since her appointment; and to what payments each Diplomatic Service: Recruitment person so appointed is entitled. [35425] Lynne Featherstone: The Minister for Women and Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Equalities has made no public appointments since the and Commonwealth Affairs if he will take steps to coalition Government took office. increase the proportion of British ambassadorial posts However, the Government Equalities Office (GEO) recruited through open competition. [35975] will shortly begin a campaign to recruit a new Commissioner to the Equality and Human Rights Commission. The Alistair Burt: It is the normal practice for senior remuneration for this post will be £500 per day for 20 to ambassadorial appointments to be made through 30 days per year. competition open to members of all Government Government have set themselves the aspiration that Departments. A recruitment process is currently under by the end of the Parliament at least 50% of all appointees way for the position of consul general New York which being made to the boards of public bodies will be is also open to applicants from outside the civil service. women. Appointments will continue to be made on While there is a recruitment freeze for the civil service, merit and Government will step up their efforts to jobs may only be opened to external recruitment in attract qualified women to public positions and ensure exceptional cases. that working practices and conditions are family-friendly. GEO and Cabinet Office are developing an action plan Senior Civil Servants to support Departments to achieve more diverse appointments which will be published shortly. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for Small Businesses: Pay Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the (a) name and (b) salary is of each senior civil servant who Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Minister for Women has (i) moved posts within and (ii) left his Department and Equalities whether she has made an assessment of since May 2010. [34679] the effects on small businesses of a requirement to publish the salaries of male and female employees. [36402] Alistair Burt: Under the Data Protection Principles in the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), it is not possible Lynne Featherstone: The Government are working to disclose the names or positions of each individual with a range of key partners to develop a voluntary staff member. It would breach the fair processing principle: approach to equality reporting, including pay. Its purpose that the individual to whom the personal data relates is to help employers recognise how to make the most of has a reasonable expectation that the Department will the talent available and to help individuals make the hold that information in confidence. most of their skills and experience. The Government Providing data on the salaries of the senior civil Equalities Office has no plans to require small businesses servants who have moved posts within the Foreign and to publish the salaries of their employees and therefore Commonwealth Office since May 2010 would be possible has not made such an assessment. only at disproportionate cost. 28 senior civil servants UN Commission on the Status of Women have left the Department since May 2010. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for Women Sri Lanka: Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation and Equalities who will assume the responsibilities formerly Commission carried out by the Women’s National Commission representative at the forthcoming meeting of the UN Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Commission on the Status of Women in February 2011. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent [36161] representations he has received on the access afforded by the Sri Lankan authorities to the BBC to report on Lynne Featherstone: We remain committed to continuing the proceedings of the Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation the strong, productive and fully engaged relationship Commission in that country. [36430] with UK non-governmental organisations (NGOs) attending the 55th Session of the UN Commission on Alistair Burt: Our high commission in Colombo regularly the Status of Women (CSW). raises issues of concern relating to freedom of expression The upcoming CSW session provides a timely with the Sri Lankan Government, including on the opportunity to set in motion our plans for a more direct issue of media access to the conflict-affected areas. Our mechanism for engaging with women across the UK high commission in Colombo is in regular contact with under a new model, including revitalising communication the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) correspondent on international matters. A pre-CSW briefing meeting in Sri Lanka. However, we have not received any with Government officials and NGO representatives representation from the BBC asking for our assistance attending the CSW took place on 19 January. Building on this issue. on that, the Government Equalities Office will continue 403W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 404W to keep NGOs updated on UN developments and NGO Drug treatment and testing orders (DTTOs)/drug rehabilitation co-ordination arrangements in the following weeks. requirements (DRRs) commencements Moving forward, we will be consulting on the new Number model shortly and look forward to welcoming the views 2000-011 1,256 from the women’s sector on how we might effectively 2001-02 4,854 engage with them on international priorities more widely. 2002-03 6,145 2003-04 8,519 2004-05 10,323 JUSTICE 2005-06 14,001 Courts: Closures 2006-07 15,798 2007-08 16,607 Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 17,642 Justice what information his Department holds on the 2009-10 15,762 number of (a) people, (b) people of pensionable age 1 Six months only (October 2000-March 2001). and (c) disabled people in the area served by each court proposed for closure who live further than one These figures have been drawn from administrative hour’s travel by public transport from the proposed data systems which may be amended at any time. Although receiving court. [36937] care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent Mr Djanogly: The consultation response documents in any large scale recording system. detail the percentage of the population in each area estimated to be within a 60 minute public transport commute of receiving courts. Due to the size and complexity Enforcement: Fees and Charges of the data it would be necessary to analyse in order to estimate the number of people within each area who are of pensionable age or who are disabled and who live Michael Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for further than one hour’s travel from a receiving court, Justice what plans he has to reform the fee structure for such estimates have not been made. enforcement agents in the UK. [36505] The Equality Impact Assessments (EIAs) that Mr Djanogly: The Government have given a commitment accompany each of the 16 HMCS area consultation to provide more protection against aggressive bailiffs. responses papers identify the potential impacts of the We are preparing a consultation paper focusing on court estate reform programme on different communities powers of entry, better regulation and costs of and groups of people. enforcement-related services. Courts: Translation Services
Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Secretary of State for Members: Correspondence Justice what steps he is taking to minimise the cost of interpretation in the court system. [35598] Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Blunt: The Government propose making changes when he plans to reply to the letter from the hon. to the provision of interpretation and translation services Member for Basildon and Billericay of (a) 17 November across the justice sector, including the courts. We are and (b) 14 December 2010 regarding a constituent, currently engaging with the market to explore how Mr Allison. [35774] interpretation and translation can be delivered more efficiently without compromising quality. The exercise Mr Kenneth Clarke: I will reply to the hon. Member is a “competitive dialogue” process which allows us to as soon as possible. explore with potential providers the best way for them Substantive answer from Kenneth Clarke to John Baron: to meet our requirements. The written ministerial statement The settlement of the Guantanamo civil damages I issued on 15 September 2010, Official Report, cases and correspondence on the subject is a matter for column 46WS, provides more details. Cabinet Office. Cabinet Office will therefore respond to Drug Testing Treatment Orders these letters. Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people have been subject to drug Offenders testing treatment orders since their inception; and how many people were subject to such an order in the latest Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for period for which figures are available. [36580] Justice how much his Department spent on doctor’s Mr Blunt: The drug treatment and testing order notes for offenders on community sentences in each of (DTTO) was rolled-out to courts across England and the last three years. [36207] Wales from October 2000. From April 2005, the drug rehabilitation requirement (DRR) gradually replaced Paul Burstow: I have been asked to reply. the DTTO as the primary means for adult offenders to It is not clear what is meant by the term ‘doctor’s address their drug misuse as part of a community order notes’. If the question refers to sickness certificates then or suspended sentence order. this information is not collected centrally. Also, the The number of DTTOs and DRRs made in each year general practitioner would not necessarily know that since October 2000 is shown in the following table. their patient was an offender on community service. 405W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 406W
Prison Accommodation The number of visitors to each prison establishment is not recorded or centrally collated. Information is held Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice at individual prisons in varying formats and the total (1) what his Department’s policy on target searching number could be supplied only at disproportionate within the prison estate (a) is and (b) wasinMay cost. 2010; [36253] These figures have been drawn from administrative (2) how many target searches there were on the IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording prison estate in (a) November 2009 and (b) November system, are subject to possible errors with data entry 2010. [36254] and processing. Prison population, England and Wales, as at 30 June, by establishment Mr Blunt: Prisons have always been required to examine and year specific security risks in their establishments and to set Establishments 2008 2009 2010 out a local strategy for dealing with those risks. Intelligence- led, targeted searches of specific prisoners or prison Acklington 909 940 930 1 areas is one important and productive aspect of this Albany 558 554 n/a strategy that has always been encouraged in prisons. Altcourse 1,265 1,314 1,261 Ashfield 397 338 275 Since May 2010 the National Offender Management Service has removed the requirement for prisons outside Ashwell 546 200 214 of the High Security Estate to conduct routine searches Askham Grange 104 122 121 in certain areas of the prison. By doing this, in appropriate Aylesbury 437 433 433 circumstances, prisons are able to set more effective Bedford 500 461 487 local searching strategies by moving away from routine Belmarsh 914 897 833 searching, which can be predictable and unproductive, Birmingham 1,439 1,444 1,475 and instead concentrate resources on more targeted Blantyre House 118 118 121 searches driven by intelligence or other local need. Blundeston 526 514 522 Prisons are required to carry out a local risk assessment Brinsford 525 521 565 to determine if a programme of routine cell searching is Bristol 612 607 607 required and if so the extent of this. Local searching Brixton 798 792 751 strategies are documented by each prison and agreed Bronzefield 457 439 479 with the regional manager. Buckley Hall 379 377 380 Data on targeted searches are not available centrally Bullingdon 996 1,081 1,097 and to provide this information would require every Bullwood Hall 213 229 224 establishment in England and Wales to collate this Bure2 n/a n/a 520 information which could be done only at disproportionate Camp Hill1 589 566 n/a cost. Canterbury 302 295 295 Cardiff 755 819 794 Prison Accommodation: Television Castington 398 371 191 Channings Wood 726 722 709 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Chelmsford 695 692 656 Justice what estimate he has made of the (a) total cost Coldingley 385 506 505 and (b) average cost per set to the prison service of Cookham Wood 34 86 112 providing television sets in prison cells in the latest Dartmoor 646 620 585 [36338] period for which figures are available. Deerbolt 443 431 478 Doncaster 1,141 1,103 1,071 Mr Blunt: The cost of providing television sets in Dorchester 228 226 220 prison cells is met from the revenue generated by the weekly charge paid by prisoners for the rental of television Dovegate 840 848 1,127 sets from the prison service. There is therefore no cost to Dover 304 310 311 the prison service. Downview 353 340 326 Drake Hall 262 261 302 Prisoners Durham 925 958 916 East Sutton Park 89 88 82 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Eastwood Park 316 317 318 Justice how many prisoners there were in each prison in Edmunds Hill 365 369 376 each of the last three years; and how many visitors Elmley3 991 954 n/a there were to each prison in that period. [36209] Erlestoke 465 468 464 Everthorpe 678 674 664 Mr Blunt: The prison population by establishment as Exeter 507 531 530 on 30 June of each year from 2008-10 is provided in the Featherstone 684 682 643 following table. Feltham 629 680 664 The prison population figures provided in the reply Ford 532 529 539 are published by the Ministry of Justice and can be Forest Bank 1,152 1,144 1,344 found free of charge at the Department’s website via the Foston Hall 259 217 245 following: Frankland 729 734 821 http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ Full Sutton 580 577 589 populationincustody.htm Garth 807 817 835 407W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 408W
Prison population, England and Wales, as at 30 June, by establishment Prison population, England and Wales, as at 30 June, by establishment and year and year Establishments 2008 2009 2010 Establishments 2008 2009 2010
Gartree 576 678 671 Sheppey Cluster n/a n/a 1,134 Glen Parva 811 793 720 (Elmley)3 Gloucester 298 287 289 Sheppey Cluster n/a n/a 444 (Standford Hill)3 Grendon (Spring 504 516 550 Hill) Sheppey Cluster n/a n/a 1,105 (Swaleside)3 Guys Marsh 575 575 552 Shepton Mallet 185 188 189 Haslar 144 151 116 Shrewsbury 323 290 313 Haverigg 634 629 625 Stafford 679 735 730 Hewell4 1,421 1,344 1,374 Standford Hill3 442 450 n/a High Down 1,109 1,073 1,047 Stocken 796 807 833 Highpoint 807 930 939 Stoke Heath 619 580 595 Hindley 494 289 331 Styal 440 450 441 Hollesley Bay 337 334 354 (Warren Hill) Sudbury 563 570 578 Holme House 979 948 1,046 Swaleside3 767 826 n/a Holloway 490 428 416 Swansea 423 398 421 Hull 1,036 1,018 1,000 Swinfen Hall 614 616 611 Huntercombe 347 260 65 The Mount 763 763 769 Isle of Wight1 n/a n/a 1,640 The Verne 591 589 579 Kennet 336 336 341 The Wolds 371 388 380 Kingston 198 175 198 Thorn Cross 233 301 288 (Portsmouth) Usk (Prescoed) 416 426 423 Kirkham 589 568 589 Wakefield 735 735 733 Kirklevington 279 270 271 Wandsworth 1,645 1,675 1,569 Grange Warren Hill 214 188 180 Lancaster Castle 234 228 237 Wayland 966 1,000 1,001 Lancaster Farms 521 493 502 Wealstun 524 517 613 Latchmere House 204 193 191 Wellingborough 641 628 540 Leeds 984 1,157 1,114 Wellington 137 130 126 Leicester 363 357 345 Wetherby 310 360 318 Lewes 682 664 469 Wharton 820 840 794 Leyhill 497 492 520 Whitemoor 414 444 449 Lincoln 706 670 573 Winchester 554 689 680 Lindholme 1,069 1,114 1,102 Woodhill 822 809 757 Littlehey 717 711 1,031 Wormwood scrubs 1,270 1,293 1,273 Liverpool 1,371 1,337 1,245 Wymott 1,073 1,127 1,141 Long Lartin 438 537 612 Total 83,194 83,454 85,022 Lowdham Grange 679 685 880 Police cells n/a n/a n/a Low Newton 297 311 243 Establishment and 83,194 83,454 85,022 Maidstone 479 590 586 police cell total Manchester 1,196 1,226 1,206 n/a = Not applicable. 1 Moorland 1,018 1,012 1,018 HMP Albany is now part of the organisational amalgamation of the former HMPs Camp Hill and Parkhurst. They now form HMP Morton Hall 370 328 284 The Isle of Wight from 1 April 2009. New Hall 427 370 375 2 HMP Bure opened in November 2009. North Sea Camp 312 303 309 3 HMP Elmley forms part of The Sheppey Cluster, an amalgamation Northallerton 241 232 230 of HMP Standford Hill and HMP Swaleside. 4 HMP Hewell was created by an amalgamation of the three former Norwich 542 502 749 prisons, Brockhill and Hewell Grange on 25 June 2008. Nottingham 550 545 898 Onley 638 692 692 Prisons: Drugs Parc 1,179 1,175 1,085 1 Parkhurst 494 491 n/a Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Pentonville 1,148 1,105 1,198 in which Prison Service region the most (a) class A Peterborough 994 950 948 and (b) class B drugs were detected in prisons in Portland 614 553 468 2009-10. [36272] Preston 727 746 753 Ranby 1,072 1,054 1,062 Mr Blunt: The best measure of drug misuse in prisons Reading 240 242 257 is the random mandatory drug testing (rMDT) programme, Risley 1,077 1,080 1,085 which detects drug misuse among prisoners. The following Rochester 388 647 723 table gives the class A and B results from the rMDT Rye Hill 635 654 611 programme in 2009-10, broken down by prison region Send 275 278 273 and type of drug identified. 409W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 410W
Random mandatory drug testing: 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 Number of tests positive by class A and B drug groups Number of tests Region conducted Cannabis Opiates1 Cocaine Methadone Amphetamines Barbiturates LSD
East Midlands 7,075 170 166 5 11 0 0 0 Eastern 5,687 126 149 5 16 0 2 0 High Security 3,612 57 116 2 3 0 0 0 London 3,912 287 132 6 24 1 2 0 North East 3,117 94 65 10 23 2 0 0 North West 7,844 292 256 9 12 0 0 0 South East 9,629 279 262 10 21 6 2 0 South West 4,766 133 148 4 28 0 0 0 Wales 1,904 69 52 2 1 2 0 0 West Midlands 5,442 116 130 2 25 0 2 0 Yorkshire and 5,441 131 142 4 23 0 0 0 Humber Total 58,429 1,754 1,618 59 187 11 8 0 1 Includes some positives for dihydrocodiene and codeine which, for these purposes, are exempt from the Misuse of Drugs Act.
Prisons also record the number of seizures of drugs. provided for a similar question answered on 24 January The following table gives the number and type of class 2011, Official Report, column 44W. The difference is A and B seizures in 2009-10, broken down by region. attributable to the live nature of the data systems Many seizures are similar in appearance and where not interrogated to obtain the data, and the complexity of attributable are not categorically identified by scientific that interrogation. analysis. These data differ slightly to those recently
Class A and B drug finds in prisons in England and Wales: 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 Finds by drug group Region Total number of finds Amphetamines Barbiturates Cannabis Cocaine Heroin LSD
East Midlands 239 5 0 158 7 68 1 Eastern 205 1 1 133 7 62 1 High Security Estate 59 8 0 22 7 21 1 London 142 0 0 106 10 26 0 North East 169 27 3 87 27 24 1 North West 694 11 1 444 62 176 0 South East 233 7 0 162 6 58 0 South West 206 6 1 90 9 99 1 Wales 83 6 0 45 2 30 0 West Midlands 129 2 0 68 5 54 0 Yorkshire and Humber 169 15 0 109 4 41 0 Total 2,328 88 6 1,424 146 659 5
The prisoner population, number and type of prisons Tribunals: Colchester vary in each prison region and so regional figures are not directly comparable. Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice All figures in this answer have been drawn from live pursuant to the answer of 19 January 2011, Official administrative data systems which may be amended at Report, column 822W, on tribunals: Colchester, how any time. Although care is taken when processing and many tribunals were held in Colchester under the analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to chairmanship of Mrs M.A. Hampshire in the last the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording 12 months; and how many appeals were (a) upheld system. The data are not subject to audit. and (b) dismissed under her chairmanship. [36134]
Prisons: Visits Mr Djanogly: It is not possible to provide the hon. Member with the information sought because it is derived from court records and its disclosure could prejudice Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the administration of justice. how many visitors to prisons in England and Wales were found to be in possession of mobile telephones in areas where visitors are not permitted to carry such telephones in 2009-10. [36273] EDUCATION
Mr Blunt: In order to provide the information requested, Children’s Workforce Development Council we would need to contact all Prison Service establishments, ask them to check their local records and to submit this Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for information to headquarters. This would incur Education what plans he has for the future of the disproportionate cost. Children’s Workforce Development Council. [30938] 411W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 412W
Mr Gibb: The Department for Education will cease ensure that the funds we have are targeted on those to fund work force development activity through the young people who most need support to enable them to Children’s Workforce Development Council (CWDC), continue in education. and will bring its ongoing core activities into the Department. The transfer of work is expected to be IGCSE completed within the next 18 months, when CWDC’s status as a non-departmental public body will cease. CWDC as a company and employer-led body will be Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Education free to seek alternative funding. if he will take steps to remove the distinction in nomenclature between (a) the IGCSE and (b) the Departmental Redundancy Certificate Level 1/2. [29342]
Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Mr Gibb: The rules pertaining to the naming of what estimate he has made of the redundancy bill for qualifications are a matter for Ofqual, the independent his Department in each of the next five financial years. exams regulator. Dennis Opposs, Director of Standards [35378] at Ofqual, has written to my hon. Friend and a copy of his reply has been placed in the House Libraries. Tim Loughton [holding answer 21 January 2011]: As Letter from Dennis Opposs, dated 22 December 2010: the Department is still in the process of working through Further to your Parliamentary Question seeking the removal the details on the level of work force needed to deliver of the distinction between the IGCSE and the Level 1/2 Certificate the coalition Government’s education agenda in future I am writing to clarify the position of Ofqual on this issue. Our years, the likely costs attached to the early release of position is essentially based on clarity and expectations. staff has yet to be finalised. Under the ‘Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act (2009)’ Ofqual will accredit qualifications that meet the relevant Discretionary Learner Support Fund: Poplar published criteria. There are currently no criteria for qualifications titled ’IGCSE’. Use of this title could create unfounded expectations amongst users (learners, employers, schools and colleges) of the Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for consistency with GCSE requirements. For example, users might Education if he will make an assessment of the likely expect that a qualification in French would include ail four of the effects on young people in Poplar and Limehouse skill areas: speaking, listening, reading and writing. This inclusion constituency of his proposed replacement scheme for is a requirement at GCSE but not a feature of all IGCSE education maintenance allowance. [31852] qualifications. Such differences may be confusing to users. On this basis, Ofqual and the regulators for Wales and Northern Ireland Mr Gibb [holding answer 20 December 2010]: We are have decided that the title ‘IGCSE’ will not be accepted for accreditation purposes at this time. committed to making sure that young people from low income households can continue in education and training I can confirm that the awarding organisation Cambridge International Examinations has a number of qualifications accredited post-16. We are considering the replacement for the by the regulators as Level 1/2 Certificates and markets them education maintenance allowance and want to ensure under the title ‘IGCSE’. Some of these qualifications are approved that the funds we have are targeted on those young for use in maintained schools and colleges in England through people who most need support to enable them to continue inclusion in the Section 96 list maintained by the Department for in education. Education. Likewise the awarding organisation Edexcel has submitted to us for accreditation some Level 1/2 Certificates derived from Education Maintenance Allowance their unregulated ‘IGCSE’ qualifications offered in other countries. Level 1/2 Certificates may not cover the requirements of the Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Programmes of Study in subjects where they exist but in carrying what recent estimate his Department has made of the out the accreditation review of these qualifications we focus on the need for equivalence in demand of the teaching, learning and effects on the level of (a) attendance and (b) attainment assessment requirements in comparison to the national GCSE of students of receiving education maintenance allowance. qualification suite. [32000] I trust that this clarifies the current situation and the stance taken by Ofqual to ensure clarity for users and consistency of Mr Gibb: We have looked at the extensive evaluation demand across qualifications. Should you require any further evidence relating to the education maintenance allowance information about this or the workings of Ofqual, please do not (EMA) pilots, which indicated that the scheme would hesitate to get in touch. increase participation of 16-year-olds by 3.8 percentage points and of 17-year-olds by 4.1 percentage points Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education nationally. The pilot evaluation also indicated an increase in overall attainment at level 2 and level 3 by around 2.5 Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for Education percentage points for females and 2 percentage points whether compliance with the recommendations on financial for males. education as part of Personal, Social and Health Education While these outcomes are very welcome, other research for Key Stages 1 to 4 is mandatory for schools. [34144] commissioned by the previous Administration suggest that around 90% of the young people who receive EMA Mr Gibb [holding answer 17 January 2011]: We want would still have participated in education if the scheme all schools to provide high-quality financial management was not available. education as part of Personal, Social, Health and Economic We are committed to making sure that young people (PSHE) education. The key processes on financial capability from low income households can continue in education as set out in the PSHE economic well-being and financial and training post-16. We are considering the replacement capability programmes of study at key stages 3 and for the education maintenance allowance and want to 4 are non-statutory. 413W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 414W
Schools: Absenteeism Ofsted, as part of their inspection criteria, will also look at trends in a school’s absence data when considering Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for school inspections. Education (1) if he will take steps to discourage Schools: Sports extended unauthorised absences from school; [31679] (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for extension of family leave on school attainment figures; Education how many school sports hall facilities were and whether his Department takes into account family (a) built and (b) refurbished in (i) England, (ii) the leave absences when assessing school performance; West Midlands and (iii) Dudley borough in each of the [31680] last 10 years. [32099] (3) what analysis he has made of the effect on the level of unauthorised absence from schools of the Mr Gibb [holding answer 20 December 2010]: The extension of family leave from 14 to 21 days. [31681] Department does not hold information on the number of school sports hall facilities built or refurbished over each of the past 10 years. Mr Gibb: Good discipline and regular attendance at school is essential to ensure that all pupils can benefit from the opportunities provided by education. It is this ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Government’s intention to restore the authority of teachers and head teachers so they can establish a culture of Departmental Communication excellence in their school. School should be a place where there is good behaviour in the classroom, where Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for pupils feel safe, give respect and are respected in turn, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what measures and want to come to school to learn. she has undertaken to reduce jargon and promote plain There has been no change to the regulations that English in departmental communications. [35791] govern the amount of family leave that can be granted. The Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations Richard Benyon: As a Department that deals with 2006 state that a pupil may be granted leave of absence technical and scientific issues, some use of acronyms from school to enable them to go away on holiday but and abbreviations is inevitable. Nevertheless, DEFRA that, save for exceptional circumstances, they should is committed to the use of clear English in all its not be granted more than 10 school days leave of external and internal communications. There are pages absence in any school year. dedicated to the use of clear English on the DEFRA intranet which all staff are encouraged to read. Head teachers and local councils already have powers to issue penalty notices (fines of £50 to £100) to parents DEFRA staff who specialise in external communications who fail to ensure their children’s regular school attendance, receive additional guidance or training on the importance which includes taking them on holiday during term of clear English. time without the school’s permission. Alternatively, Fishing Catches: North Sea local councils can prosecute parents under section 444 of the Education Act 1996. If parents are found guilty Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for of the offence the Act provides for heavier sanctions Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will where the parent condoned their children’s absence estimate the tonnage of fish discarded in respect of from school, as in the case of taking them out of school each of the five most common fish species discarded by on an extended family holiday without permission. The trawlers operating in the North Sea registered (a) in court can fine parents up to £2,500 and or give a prison the UK and (b) in other EU member states; and if she sentence of up to three months. The parent will also get will make a statement. [36226] a criminal record. Prosecutions should be used as a last resort by local councils as in most cases a penalty notice Richard Benyon: The Scientific, Technical and Economic will be a sufficient sanction to deter parents. Committee for Fisheries (STECF) of the European The Department publishes absence and attainment Commission compiles data on landings and discards of data for schools as part of the annual Schools Performance the main commercial species by fishing gear type. The Tables. The recently published Primary School (Key following estimates of landings and discards by trawlers Stage 2) Performance Tables included schools overall are based on the STECF data. The estimates cover the absence, persistent absence and unauthorised absence three most recent years for which data have been published. data. The Secondary Schools (Key Stage 4) Performance Estimates for the two main types of trawl gear (demersal Tables are due for publication in January 2011. trawls and beam trawls) are given separately.
Cod Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2006 Landings (t) 260 2,999 7,556 6,852 Discards (t) 30 729 2,265 7,514
2007 Landings (t) 180 2,593 7,424 6,349 Discards (t) 9 210 6,785 13,586 415W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 416W
Cod Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2008 Landings (t) 104 2,852 7,896 6,421 Discards (t) 35 1,115 12,454 7,857
Haddock Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2006 Landings (t) 5 92 32,014 3,355 Discards (t) 0 5 14,425 2,408
2007 Landings (t) 5 128 26,137 3,453 Discards (t) 0 2 25,819 4,726
2008 Landings (t) 1 73 26,823 2,797 Discards (t) 0 9 11,897 1,876
Plaice Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2006 Landings (t) 9,800 33,752 2,722 13,615 Discards (t) 2,788 25,800 1,616 10,982
2007 Landings (t) 9,085 30,986 2,547 11,505 Discards (t) 4,280 20,863 920 4,165
2008 Landings (t) 6,943 27,700 4,618 14,647 Discards (t) 3,301 19,853 1,433 4,538
Saithe Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2006 Landings (t) 0 12 9,193 38,119 Discards (t) 0 0 2,928 9,676
2007 Landings (t) 1 10 9,406 32,699 Discards (t) 0 0 8,639 24,051
2008 Landings (t) 0 4 11,802 38,276 Discards (t) 0 2 3,856 20,207
Whiting Beam trawl Demersal trawl UK Other member states UK Other member states
2006 Landings (t) 58 162 10,773 5,791 Discards (t) 40 160 5,971 10,234
2007 Landings (t) 25 112 11,230 5,956 Discards (t) 86 450 3,893 5,387
2008 Landings (t) 8 144 10,071 5,651 Discards (t) 25 701 5,879 7,538
Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) whether she is considering any proposals to allow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what steps the landing of by-catch that would otherwise be she is taking to reduce the number of non-target fish discarded; and if she will make a statement. [36225] species discarded in the North Sea by trawlers registered in the UK and other EU member states; and Richard Benyon: Discards are a clear waste of natural if she will make a statement; [36120] resources. To minimise discards by all types of vessels 417W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 418W throughout UK seas we are working at a European level (b) The environmental impacts on the ecosystem of to radically reform the common fisheries policy (CFP). discarding fish include the direct effects of discard However the UK is not awaiting the results of this mortality on fish stocks and the effects of population reform to take action. There have been a number of growth in species that utilise these discards. initiatives aimed at reducing discards, including trialling The direct ecological effects of fish mortality through an alternative “catch quota” management system which being caught and discarded are inextricably linked to is based on managing and monitoring what is caught—not overall fishing mortality. In the North sea, excessive just what is landed. This trial had positive results; fishing mortality has been shown to: reducing discards, increasing selectivity and allowing Reduce potential yield from the stocks; fishermen to land more and will provide useful evidence for the reform of the CFP. Reduce species diversity; Change predator-prey interactions; and While landing by-catch that would otherwise be discarded would reduce the problem of discards it would not Change the relative abundance of species. avoid by-catch in the first instance. Our preference has A wide range of scavengers, including seabirds and always been to make fishing more selective, thus tackling fishes, are known to feed on discards. In the North sea, the root of this wasteful practice and reducing mortality discarding is estimated to account for up to 10% of the of non-target fish. Project 50%, a collaborative project overall annual food consumption of scavengers. This between fishermen in the south-west and Government, level of contribution is probably sufficient to allow has led to improved selectivity of fishing gear and less larger populations of these scavenging species to exist by-catch. than would otherwise be possible. For instance, seabirds are estimated to consume 50% of discarded material; enough potentially to support over six million birds. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Several seabed dwelling species also utilise discards Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment but evidence for expansion of these populations, as a she has made of the (a) economic and (b) environmental response to discards, is weak. In general, the full impacts effects on (i) the fishing fleet in the North East and (ii) of discarding on marine communities are not well the North Sea of the practice of discarding fish in the understood, and neither are the consequences of reducing North Sea; and if she will make a statement. [36258] the amount of discarded material. However, it is recognised that removing non-marketable marine organisms from the ecosystem will reduce its health, and is therefore not Richard Benyon: The information requested is as consistent with good ecosystem management. follows: (a) The total discard estimate in 2009 (the latest Fishing Catches: South East period for which figures are available for those fisheries sampled in UK) is 51,179 tonnes. There are many reasons explaining these discards; however, the current Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for system for recording catch and discard data does not Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion allow us to differentiate (year on year) why each fish is of fish caught off the (a) Sussex and (b) South East discarded. Despite this, CEFAS analysis, conducted in coast was discarded under the provisions of the EU 2010 on the 2008 English and Welsh discard data, Common Fisheries Policy in the latest period for which estimated that: figures are available. [36072] 54% (13,230 tonnes) of total discards were discarded for Richard Benyon: During 2010, CEFAS scientists joined reasons relating to weak/absent markets (i.e. non-quota species). 12 commercial fishing trips sailing from ports on the Quota constraints were estimated to account for 22% (5,390 south-east coast between Lymington and Ramsgate in tonnes) of discards (i.e. quota species above the legal minimum order to estimate the quantities of fish discarded during landing size). these trips. Eight of these trips were aboard vessels 24% (5,880 tonnes) of total discards were quota species below based in the Sussex ports of Rye and Shoreham. Overall, the legal minimum landing size (MLS) and were too small to 67% by number of the fish caught were discarded, with land. the corresponding figure from the Sussex trips being 63%. During these trips, 62 different species of fish were High grading is another type of discarding where caught. fishermen try to optimise the value of their catches by keeping the good value fish and discarding the poorer Many of these were discarded because there is no value ones. This creates a financial profit for fishermen market for the species. Only four of the 62 species but is still a waste of fish. A European high grading ban caught (cod, plaice, Dover sole and whiting) were subject is in place in waters around the UK to prevent this to legal minimum landing sizes and quota restrictions. behaviour. Other types of discarding, such as unmarketable Discards of these species involved individuals both species, over quota and under MLS may represent a loss below and above the minimum landing sizes. of value to the fishermen and from the fishery. Estimates of the financial impacts of discards for the Forests: Crown Lands and Estates British fleet in specific areas are unreliable. To simply use the average market value of all fish species as a Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for multiplier would give an inaccurate estimate of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what land in financial impact of discards. We do, however, have a each constituency the Crown Estate has transferred to more robust study under way looking at the economic the Forestry Commission in each of the last 30 years. impact of discarding fish. [36377] 419W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 420W
Mr Paice: In the last 30 years no land in England has Rodents: North East been transferred to the Forestry Commission from the Crown Estates. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Natural Gas: Drinking Water Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate her Department has made of the size of the rat population in (a) Hartlepool and (b) the North East Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for of England; and what assessment she has made of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment recent rat population trends. [36416] she has made of the extent of risk to drinking water supplies posed by shale gas drilling. [36476] Richard Benyon: DEFRA does not hold data on the Richard Benyon: The drinking water regulations were size of the UK rat population or on the rat population changed at the end of 2007 to require water companies in UK regions and towns. to risk assess every drinking water supply and monitor Data on rodent presence in domestic dwellings are each raw water source on a continual basis. Companies obtained from the English House Condition Survey have a duty to take steps to mitigate any potential risks (EHCS). The EHCS data only provide estimates of the to human health and must notify the Drinking Water proportions of dwellings with rats present inside or outside. Inspectorate of such circumstances. The Chief Inspector It does not provide definitive data on numbers of rats. of Drinking Water can by notice require further mitigation In May 2010, DEFRA published an interim analysis steps to be taken, or, exceptionally, require that a supply of rodent presence in domestic properties from the is shut down. EHCS data for 2005, 2006 and 2007. This reported that No risk to human health has been identified by the the occurrences of rats inside and outside in these years water company responsible for the one drinking water were not significantly different from those observed supply, out of a total of 857 in England and Wales, in 2003. where shale gas drilling is a feature of the water catchment. Water companies are kept informed by the Environment Agency of changes in activities within drinking water WORK AND PENSIONS catchments, including shale gas drilling. Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission: Rats Correspondence
Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she has and Pensions how many items of correspondence were made an assessment of the relationship between the referred to the Child Maintenance and Enforcement size and growth of the rat population in an area and Commission by each hon. Member in 2009-10, listed in the frequency of rubbish collections; and if she will descending order of magnitude. [35212] make a statement. [36417] Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Richard Benyon: There is no evidence of additional Commission is responsible for the child maintenance vermin problems associated with well designed alternate system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner weekly collection services. to write to the hon. Member with the information Recycling requested and I have seen the response. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance she has made of the relative merits of (a) deposit Commissioner. refund schemes and (b) doorstep recycling schemes in You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how increasing recycling rates of beverage containers. many items of correspondence were referred to the Child Maintenance [36241] and Enforcement Commission by each hon. Member in 2009-10, listed in descending order of magnitude. [35212] Richard Benyon: The relative merits of both methods Correspondence figures broken down by parliamentary are being considered as part of the review of waste constituency are only available at disproportionate costs. However, policy, in the context of increasing the recycling rates of the total received in 2009/10 was 16,530. ail packaging, not just beverage containers. I am sorry I am unable to be more helpful. Retail Trade: Packaging Child Support Agency
Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Work and Pensions what timetable he has set for the discussions she has had with businesses on the reduction publication of the client fund accounts of the Child of the amount of packaging used to distribute and Support Agency. [36406] retail goods. [35846] Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Richard Benyon: As part of the review of waste Commission is responsible for the child maintenance policy, DEFRA has met with a number of retailers and system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner manufacturers recently to discuss a broad range of to write to the hon. Member with the information waste issues, including the issue of excess packaging. requested and I have seen the response. 421W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 422W
Letter from Stephen Geraghty: This is an important but complicated area, and we In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the are aware that the current arrangements can be improved Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive to better reflect the financial needs of customers, local reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child authorities and housing providers. We are aiming to Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance make change from April 2012, and we will seek a and Enforcement Commission. solution which balances the needs of all these groups. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what 1 ‘Exempt’ and supported accommodation: timetable he has set for the publication of the client fund accounts of the Child Support Agency. [36406] http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2009-2010/ rrep714.pdf Following the transfer of the Child Support Agency’s functions to the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Housing Benefit: East Lothian Commission undertook an extensive programme of work around client funds to enable the publication of the accounts for 2008/09 Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for and 2009/10. The Commission is confident that this work provides a more accurate picture of maintenance arrears and a more Work and Pensions what the average amount of robust view of the arrears that are likely to be collected. While housing benefit paid by tenure in East Lothian this work has taken longer than expected, the Commission is now constituency was in the latest period for which figures working with the National Audit Office to finalise both accounts, are available; what the average amount of local housing and aims to publish them before the end of the financial year. allowance paid by tenure in East Lothian constituency was in the latest period for which figures are available; Disability Living Allowance: Mental Illness and what proportion of (a) housing benefit and (b) local housing allowance recipients in (i) local authority, Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for (ii) housing association and (iii) private sector housing Work and Pensions how many people (a) in Leeds and in East Lothian constituency were also in receipt of (A) (b) nationally applied for disability living allowance jobseeker’s allowance and (B) employment and support citing schizophrenia or a psychosis as their disability in allowance in the latest period for which figures are each of the last five years; and how many such available. [35865] applications were refused in each such year. [34506] Steve Webb: The information is not available. Maria Miller: We are unable to say how many people Mortgage Interest Scheme (a) in Leeds and (b) nationally applied for disability living allowance citing schizophrenia or a psychosis as their disability in each of the last five years; and how Karl Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Work many such applications were refused in each such year. and Pensions what recent progress his Department has This because our management information systems do made in negotiations with mortgage lenders on not provide us with our customer’s main disabling condition averaging out mortgage rates under the Support for when they apply for disability living allowance or when Mortgage Interest scheme. [35838] they have their application refused. Steve Webb: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer Housing Benefit given to the hon. Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders) on 17 January 2011, Official Report, column 519W. Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Personal Income: East Lothian Work and Pensions what progress his Department has made on updating the regulations in respect of exempt Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for accommodation for housing benefit; and what Work and Pensions what the medium household timescale he has set for the completion of this work. income was of a family in (a) social rented sector, (b) [36438] private rented sector and (c) owner-occupied accommodation in East Lothian constituency (i) before Steve Webb: We are undertaking an extensive review and (ii) after housing costs in the latest period for of this policy which has involved commissioning which figures are available. [35866] independent research and discussions with stakeholders. We set up a working group which included local authorities, Steve Webb: We use Households Below Average Income housing providers, welfare groups, the Department of data to provide estimates of median incomes. However, Health and the Department for Communities and Local the sample size of this survey is not sufficient to provide Government to inform the review. The research was estimates for low-level geographies such as those requested. published in December1, and we hope to publish a The following table shows the median equivalised consultation document on the principles of our proposed disposable household income by tenure for Scotland, way forward in February. before and after housing costs.
Table 1: Median equivalised disposable household income, for families, by tenure for Scotland, three year average 2006-07 to 2008-09, before and after housing costs
Median equivalised weekly disposable household income for families
Tenure type Before housing costs After housing costs
Owners 467 424
Social Renters 291 235 423W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 424W
Table 1: Median equivalised disposable household income, for families, by tenure for Scotland, three year average 2006-07 to 2008-09, before and after housing costs Median equivalised weekly disposable household income for families Tenure type Before housing costs After housing costs
Private Renters 346 253 Notes 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income (HBAI) data sourced from the Family Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation factors for household size and composition, as an income measure as a proxy for standard of living. 2. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to uncertainty. Small differences should be treated with caution as these will be affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. 3. The reference period for HBAI figures is single financial years. For countries and regions within the UK, three survey years have been combined as single year estimates are subject to volatility. 4. Weekly incomes are presented in 2008-09 prices and have been rounded to the nearest pound sterling. 5. Families are defined as a single adult or couple living as married and any dependent children, including same sex couples (civil partnerships and cohabitees) from January 2006. A household is made up of one of more families and is defined as a single person or group of people living at the same address as their only or main residence, who either share one meal a day together or share the living accommodation (i.e. a living room). In line with the wording of the question, analysis has been carried out at the family level. Source: Households Below Average Income (HBAI) 2006-07 to 2008-09
Pregnant Women: Grants Referrals initially sent for investigation by the Fraud Investigation Service might subsequently be referred to Customer Compliance for continued action at any time Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work if it is clear that a criminal sanction would not be and Pensions how many Sure Start maternity grants appropriate. were made to mothers for their second or subsequent child in West Lancashire constituency in 2009-10. [5632] Social Security Benefits: Teenage Pregnancy
Steve Webb: I apologise for the delay in replying Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Work which is due to an administrative error. and Pensions how much his Department paid in A total of 274,000 Sure Start maternity grants were benefits to pregnant teenagers in the latest period for awarded in Great Britain in 2009-10. The exact number which figures are available. [36206] of awards for a second or subsequent maternity is not available, but is estimated to be 52% of all awards, Maria Miller: In 2009-10, the Department paid £26 around 143,000. million in benefits to pregnant teenagers on income The number of awards made in 2009-10 is available support. This is an estimate based on a sample of the by Government office region or Jobcentre Plus social Department’s administrative records, and relates to Great fund budget area only, not by constituency. Britain. Note: Similar expenditure statistics for other benefits are Both numbers have been rounded to the nearest 1,000. not available. Source: State Retirement Pensions: Uprating Department for Work and Pensions Social Fund Policy, Budget and Management Information System. Gordon Birtwistle: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security Benefits: Fraud Work and Pensions (1) if he will commission research into a system for linking increases in pensions for those aged over 80 years to the rate of inflation; [36159] Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 4 November (2) if he will assess the merits of changing the level of 2010, Official Report, columns 936-37W, how many of increase to pensions for those aged over 80 years to the calls received by the National Benefit Fraud Hotline create an even rate of pension increase from retirement. in each of the last five years were examined by the [36160] Department and passed to (a) the Fraud Investigation Service or (b) the customer compliance teams in Jobcentre Steve Webb: We have no plans to commission such Plus (i) within 0 to 4 weeks, (ii) within one to two research. However, the 25p weekly age addition payable months, (iii) within two to four months, (iv) within four with the state pension for those who have reached 80 to six months, (v) within six to eight months, (vi) within needs to be considered alongside the range of other eight to 10 months, (vii) within 10 to 12 months, (viii) measures and benefits that are available to pensioners. after more than a year, (ix) after more than 15 months These include the free television licence scheme for and (x) after more than two years. [36630] those over 75. The age-related personal income tax allowance for the over 75s is higher than the standard Chris Grayling: Every call to the National Benefit rate. For the tax year starting on 6 April 2011, pensioners Fraud Hotline is examined by the Department. The aged 75 or over will not pay tax on incomes under information received is entered immediately on to the £10,000. The standard winter fuel payment for households IT system and then automatically submitted to either with someone aged 80 or over is £300 and £200 for the Fraud Investigation Service or Customer Compliance. households with someone aged 60 to 79. 425W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 426W
We have met our commitment to restore the earnings In the previous two financial years the Department link for the basic state pension from April 2011 by spent the following: introducing the necessary legislation. We have also given a “triple guarantee” that the basic state pension is £ increased by the highest of the average growth in earnings, price increases or 2.5%. 2009-10 673,636 2008-09 737,821 Universal Credit Departmental Recruitment Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how housing costs will be assessed David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for when determining eligibility for universal credit. [36656] Communities and Local Government how much his Department spent on recruitment advertising in each Steve Webb: While we are still developing our plans, national newspaper in the last 12 months for which our aim is to simplify the provision of housing support figures are available. [33274] in universal credit as much as possible. As announced in the Budget last year, we will set the Robert Neill: Departmental records show £7,567 (inc. amount we pay to support private-rented sector tenants VAT) as having been spent on recruitment advertising at a level that will generally make the lowest third of in national newspapers in January 2010 which was market rents affordable. For social-rented sector tenants, related to recruitment for lay members of the Residential we will build on the support provided by the current Property Tribunal Service. housing benefit system. We are currently considering whether changes are needed to the existing approach in Expenditure on recruitment advertising in national calculating help with mortgage costs. newspaper by third parties (eg recruitment agencies) could be identified only at disproportionate cost.
Departmental Redundancy Pay COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Pay Communities and Local Government how much his Department has spent on redundancy costs since May Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010. [34922] Communities and Local Government what information his Department holds on the number of sub-contracted Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and staff servicing his Department who were not paid at a Local Government have made no redundancies since rate equivalent to or above the London living wage in May 2010. the latest period for which figures are available. [34824]
Robert Neill: The Department does not hold this Housing: Standards information. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for for Communities and Local Government if he will Communities and Local Government how many assess the merits of encouraging local authorities to employees of his Department who have been appointed carry out housing condition surveys to protect tenants since 10 May 2010 have annual salaries greater than from irresponsible landlords; and if he will make a (a) £100,000, (b) £134,565 and (c) £142,500. [34884] statement. [36381]
Robert Neill: The Department has appointed one Andrew Stunell: Local authorities have powers, under employee since 10 May 2010 with an annual salary the Housing Act 2004, to assess the risks and hazards in greater than £100,000, that is, the Permanent Secretary, residential properties using the Housing Health and whose salary is greater than £142,500. Safety Rating System. If a property is found to contain Since May we have also published salary details for serious (category 1) hazards, the local authority has a all existing staff at director level and above. duty to take the most appropriate action. This could range from trying to deal with the problems informally Departmental Public Expenditure at first to prohibiting the use of the whole or part of the dwelling. This system provides an important safety net, Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for ensuring that homes are safe and decent. This Government Communities and Local Government how much his are satisfied that the current legislation achieves the Department spent on the Government Car Service right balance between the rights and obligations of since May 2010. [34525] landlords and tenants and have no plans to introduce further regulation in this area. Robert Neill: Departmental records show that £307,080 It is in a local authority’s interest to collect information has been spent with the Government Car and Dispatch across all housing tenures through housing condition Agency since May 2010. surveys. The Government do not stipulate the precise This amount includes expenditure for some services detail of local housing condition surveys. It is for local provided before the election. authorities to decide the best approach for their area. 427W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 428W
Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State lists and (b) new homes to be built in the next four for Communities and Local Government if he will years. [36515] assess the level of transparency of local authorities in respect of enforcing standards in the private rented Andrew Stunell: Information on social housing waiting housing market; and if he will make a statement. lists is collected in terms of the number of households [36382] (rather than people). The number of households registered on social housing waiting lists in England as at 1 April Andrew Stunell: As part of the Housing Strategy 2010 was 1.75 million having risen from 1.02 million in Statistical Appendix return local authorities report to 1997. Where local authorities and housing associations my Department the number of private sector (non-registered operate a common housing register, households registered provider) dwellings with category 1 hazards under the with the housing association will be included in this Housing Health and Safety Rating System made free figure. However, housing associations are independent from those hazards as a direct result of local authority bodies and can keep their own waiting lists. No further action. This information is readily available from the information on housing association waiting lists is collected Department for Communities and Local Government centrally. website at section B via the following link: The Department for Communities and Local http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ Government does not make estimates of the number of housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/localauthorityhousing/ new homes that will be built in future years. dataforms/hssa0910/hssadata200910/ Transparency is an important Government policy, supporting the decentralisation and localism agendas. Information should be made easily accessible to the HOME DEPARTMENT public. Animal Experiments Landlord and Tenant Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether she plans to improve the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State welfare standards of animals used in tests for household for Communities and Local Government what recent cleaning products and their ingredients. [35854] estimate he has made of the number of households which rent their home from a private landlord; and if Lynne Featherstone: The Animals (Scientific Procedures) he will make a statement. [36379] Act 1986 requires high standards of welfare for all animals used in regulated procedures for all of the Andrew Stunell: The most recent estimate, based on purposes listed in Section 5(3) of the Act, including the data from the English Housing Survey, is that there testing of any product or ingredient to prevent disease, were 3.1 million households in England renting from ill-health or abnormalities in man, animals or plants. private landlords in 2008-09. Unless a specific exemption is granted, the animals Tenure estimates for 2009-10 are due to be published must be housed and cared for in accordance with the in the English Housing Survey headline report 2009-10 standards which are laid down in the published Guidance in late February 2011. on the Operation of the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 and two Codes of Practice for the housing and Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State care of animals used in scientific procedures. for Communities and Local Government what support As regards, the testing of household products on his Department provides to low-income tenants in animals, the coalition government has pledged to end disputes with irresponsible landlords; and if he will such testing and we are currently finalising the practical make a statement. [36380] arrangements for its implementation. I expect to announce these arrangements shortly. Andrew Stunell: The existing legislative framework for private renting provides safeguards to ensure both Asylum: Children landlords and tenants take their responsibilities seriously. Where a private tenant has legitimate concerns, they Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for can obtain help and advice from local authorities who the Home Department how many children were also have extensive powers to tackle poor quality stock detained in (a) 2007, (b) 2008 and (c) 2009 prior to a or poor management standards in the private rented final determination on a family asylum claim. [36396] sector. Tenants can also seek advice from a range of free independent advice organisations—most notably the Damian Green: The information requested is not citizen’s advice bureaux, many of which receive funding centrally recorded and could be obtained by examination from local authorities. My Department supports these of individual case records only at a disproportionate sources of help through the funding it provides to local cost. authorities. Asylum: Housing Social Rented Housing: Waiting Lists Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Home Department pursuant to the answer of 13 January Communities and Local Government what his most 2011, Official Report, columns 398-9W, on asylum: recent estimate is of the number of (a) people on (i) housing, what the (a) minimum and (b) maximum council housing and (ii) housing association waiting number of people seeking asylum was that each local 429W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 430W authority or local authority consortium has been required Border Security Agents: Paris to house under contracts with the UK Border Agency in each of the last five years. [36276] Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many border security agents Damian Green: The contractual minimum and maximum were stationed in Paris on the most recent date for volumes for each local authority/consortia are shown in which figures are available. [36243] the following table. The figures have not changed for the duration of the contracts awarded in 2006. Damian Green: The UK Border Agency currently employs 53 officers at Gare du Nord train station in Minimum Maximum Paris. This information was locally collated in December 2010. Glasgow CC 2,000 2,200 NECCASS 1,250 2,882 Criminal Records: Vetting Y&H Consortium 3,345 3,885 NW Consortium 500 2,245 Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Liverpool City 185 725 the Home Department what the average time taken to Council complete a Criminal Record Bureau check was in the West Midlands 1,300 1,800 latest period for which figures are available. [36458] Consortium Cardiff City Council 400 1320 Lynne Featherstone: In December 2010, the last period Swansea City Council 200 275 for which figures are available, the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) took an average of 24.4 days to complete Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the an enhanced check. Home Department pursuant to the answer of 13 January Departmental Redundancy 2011, Official Report, columns 398-99W, on asylum: housing, what estimate she has made of the (a) minimum and (b) maximum number of people seeking asylum Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State that each local authority or local authority consortium for the Home Department how many staff in her will be required to house under contracts with the UK Department have been made redundant since May 2010. [36639] Border Agency in each of the next five years. [36277] Damian Green: The Home Office has not made any Damian Green: New contracts for the provision of staff redundant since May 2010. accommodation for eligible asylum seekers are due to be awarded in 2012. Invitations to tender for these DNA: Databases contracts will be released in spring this year and we are currently formulating a strategy to deliver best value for Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for the the tax-payer. It will be open to local authority consortia Home Department what software the Forensic Science to submit tenders under this procurement exercise. We Service uses to analyse DNA raw data samples. [36625] cannot provide estimates of projected minimum and maximum numbers of asylum seekers to be housed by James Brokenshire: The Forensic Science Service (FSS) local authority under contract as we cannot pre-empt uses a combination of internally developed software the outcome of the procurement. and software provided by Applied Biosystems.
Border Agency: Manpower Entry Clearances: Carers
Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Home Department what discretion is available to the the Home Department what assessment she has made UK Border Agency to allow adults with special needs of the likely effects on UK Border Agency services of to remain in the UK while an application is made for the proposed reduction in its staff numbers by 2015. residence, where the main carer of the applicant is a [36244] UK citizen with right of residence. [36378]
Damian Green: The priority of the agency remains to Damian Green: All applicants who submit a valid secure the border and to control migration while we application to the UK Border Agency for permission to play our part in reducing the public deficit. We are remain in the UK before their previous permission committed to programmes such as e-Borders and the expires are permitted to remain in the UK pending the Immigration Case Working system that will help to outcome of that application. Where appropriate, a right reduce the threat of terrorism, crime and immigration of appeal will be given if the application is refused. abuse and replace costly and outmoded paper work, When an application is made after the expiry of an respectively. These programmes will help improve our individual’s permission to remain in the UK, the application productivity and efficiency and will mean that we can is made out of time and the applicant is an over-stayer. target our resources on those people likely to cause The UK Border Agency will also consider applications most harm to the UK. As a result the UK Border from those whose stay here has lapsed but in the event Agency will be able to deliver its objectives while reducing that the application is refused, there will not be a right the budget by up to 20% in real terms over the next four of appeal and the person will be considered for removal years. if they fail to leave voluntarily. 431W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 432W
Football: Poland and Ukraine number of cold case reviews the Forensic Science Services is likely to have on-going at the point at which John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the it is wound down. [36479] Home Department what assessment she has made of the threat from far-right activists to British fans James Brokenshire: It is not possible to provide an attending the European Football Championships in accurate projection of how many cold case reviews the 2012. [35724] Forensic Science Service (FSS) is likely to have on-going at the point at which it is wound down. However, as part James Brokenshire: Home Office is in close liaison of the managed wind-down, the Home Office is working with the authorities in Poland and Ukraine assessing with partners across the Criminal Justice System (CJS) the full range of risks to British fans. No specific to agree a suitable process for the handling and retention assessment has been made of the threat from far-right of FSS records so that historical data remains available activists. The safety and security preparations will include to the CJS. a range of assessment to minimise the risk to British fans and police, including any risk from far-right activists. Human Trafficking
Forensic Science Service: Criminal Investigation Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what contribution she has made to the Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the review of Government strategy on human trafficking. Home Department what assessment has she made of [36581] the likely effects of the closure of the Forensic Science Service on police forces’ ability to conclude cold case Damian Green: I am leading the development of the reviews. [36477] Government’s strategy on human trafficking, in close collaboration with my ministerial colleagues, including James Brokenshire: As part of the managed wind-down my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary in her capacity we will ensure steps are taken to safeguard Forensic as the Minister for Women and Equalities. Science Service (FSS) records so that they can continue to be accessed by police investigating re-opened cases Illegal Immigrants (or ‘cold cases’), and to prevent a break in continuity when the company ceases trading. Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many illegal immigrants (a) Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the were removed from and (b) voluntarily departed the Home Department how many cold case reviews the UK between July and September 2010. [36459] Forensic Science Service has ongoing. [36478]
James Brokenshire: The Forensic Science Service (FSS) Damian Green: The table shows the number of removals advises that currently there are approximately 600 cold and voluntary departures between July and September case reviews in the system. This takes into account new 2010. cases for review of forensic potential; those being progressed The Home Office publishes statistics on the number via new techniques in the laboratory, and those coming of persons removed or departed voluntarily from the to court. UK on a quarterly and annual basis, which are available from the Home Office’s Research, Development and Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Statistics website at: Home Department what estimate she has made of the www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum-stats.html
Removals and voluntary departures1,2, from the United Kingdom, by type, July to September 2010 Number of departures3 Enforced removals and voluntary departures Enforced Non-asylum cases removals and refused entry at notified Assisted Other port and voluntary voluntary voluntary subsequently departures4 returns5 departures6 Total removed7 Grand total
July 1,700 430 1,245 3,380 1,555 4,935 August 1,690 430 1,250 3,370 1,600 4,975 September 1,730 390 1,145 3,265 1,520 4,785 July to September 5,125 1,250 3,640 10,015 4,675 14,690 1 Figures are rounded to the nearest 5 and may not sum to the totals shown because of independent rounding. 2 Provisional figures. Figures will under record due to data cleansing and data matching exercises that take place after the extracts are taken. 3 Removals and voluntary departures recorded on the system as at the dates on which the data extracts were taken. 4 Includes persons leaving under Facilitated Return Schemes. 5 Persons leaving under Assisted Voluntary Return Programmes run by the International Organization for Migration. May include some on-entry cases and some cases where enforcement action has been initiated. 6 Persons who it has been established left the UK without informing the immigration authorities. 7 Includes removals performed by Immigration Officers at ports using enforcement powers and cases dealt with at juxtaposed controls. 433W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 434W
Immigration The first allocation under the fund to the Scottish Government was £2.973 million in 2009-10 and a further Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for the £1.18 million was allocated in 2010-11 making a total of Home Department what steps she is taking to monitor £4.153 million. the number of people leaving the UK. [34776] The fund was not in existence for the year 2008-09 and has since been terminated. Damian Green: Our programme for Government sets UK Border Agency: Correspondence out our clear commitment to re-introduce exit checks, which we will do by March 2015, and our clear commitment to e-Borders. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 16 September Through the e-Borders system, we currently check 2010, Official Report, columns 1214-5W,on immigration, electronically in excess of 55% of all arrivals into and if she will make arrangements for the collection of departures from the UK, enabling the law enforcement statistics by the UK Border Agency on the volume of agencies to mount an appropriate response, while supporting correspondence received from hon. Members. [35210] the UK Border Agency’s ability to monitor passenger movement numbers. Damian Green: The UK Border Agency collects statistics We have announced our intention to review by April on the number of inquiries made by hon. Members and 2011 the extent to which e-Borders provides a solution these are published yearly by the Cabinet Office. to the re-introduction of exit checks. In the year 2009 the UK Border Agency received Immigration Control 66,320 inquiries by letter or email, and 25,322 inquiries by telephone, a total of 91,642 inquires from Members Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the of Parliament. Home Department if she will assess the merits of increasing Young Offenders: Arrests the fees for the processing of visa applications for economic migrants and visitors to the UK for the Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the purposes of reducing the level of job losses at the UK Home Department what the juvenile violent crime Border Agency. [36664] arrest rate was in each (a) local authority area and (b) constituency in each year for which figures are Damian Green: The UK Border Agency continues to available. [35712] monitor the visa, immigration and nationality fees paid by migrants and visitors to ensure they make an appropriate James Brokenshire: Data on the number of persons contribution to the costs of running the system which aged 10-17 arrested for violent offences per 1,000 population the taxpayer continues to support. are provided in the table from 2000-01 to 2008-09. Data Migration Impacts Fund: Scotland broken down by (a) local authority area and (b) constituency are not reported to the Home Office, so data broken down by police force area has been provided Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for the in lieu. Home Department how much funding was allocated to the Scottish Government from the migration impact The arrests collection began in 1999-2000, however fund in each of the last three years. [36374] figures have not been provided for that year as reliable breakdowns of the data by age group are not available. Damian Green: Migration impact funding is allocated Data on arrests for 2009-10 are due to be published to the Scottish Government under the Barnett formula. on 15 April 2011.
Number of persons aged 10-17 arrested for ‘violent offences’1 per 1,000 population by police force area, England and Wales 2000-01 to 2008-09 Police force area 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09
Avon and Somerset 75781113161615 Bedfordshire 9 7 11 15 20 22 21 17 15 Cambridgeshire 10 6 7 8 12 19 18 16 14 Cheshire 86871218161211 Cleveland 14 12 13 15 n/a 19 18 19 17 Cumbria 10 9 11 11 17 19 18 15 20 Derbyshire 13814162122202219 Devon and Cornwall 9 8 11 11 12 13 13 13 9 Dorset 9 10 6 8 12 15 16 15 13 Durham n/a n/a n/a 12 18 26 27 27 24 Essex 128 9121315121715 Gloucestershire 66791016211916 Greater London 17 9 15 17 19 23 28 25 23 Greater Manchester 14 8 14 17 21 26 28 24 21 Hampshire 14813171919252319 Hertfordshire 9 6 8 11 16 16 17 15 14 Humberside 11 8 11 12 13 14 15 13 12 Kent 11611121314131314 435W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 436W
Number of persons aged 10-17 arrested for ‘violent offences’1 per 1,000 population by police force area, England and Wales 2000-01 to 2008-09 Police force area 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09
Lancashire 19 12 16 24 32 32 31 26 21 Leicestershire 97991014141310 Lincolnshire n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 5 16 12 10 Merseyside 18 11 20 24 21 20 23 24 22 Norfolk 11 9 9 10 12 14 12 9 10 Northamptonshire 9 7 9 10 11 16 17 13 10 Northumbria 18 12 20 23 31 35 42 33 29 North Yorkshire 15 11 17 22 n/a 22 17 19 11 Nottinghamshire 22 13 18 21 22 27 22 21 17 South Yorkshire 15 10 15 16 21 23 23 24 20 Staffordshire n/a n/a n/a 16 19 17 19 19 15 Suffolk 9 6 9 12 14 14 17 10 10 Surrey 8 71012141516128 Sussex 8 6 8 13 17 18 19 17 13 Thames Valley 11 7 12 13 17 18 18 14 14 Warwickshire77681013161412 West Mercia 10 7 9 12 15 17 19 12 13 West Midlands n/a n/a 17 19 17 18 17 15 14 WestYorkshire151019202330322821 Wiltshire 979879678
Dyfed-Powys 11 9 11 14 12 15 20 15 15 Gwent n/an/a1012182023189 North Wales 10 7 11 16 19 21 27 28 27 South Wales 13 13 13 14 15 17 21 18 15 n/a = Data not available. 1 Violent offences are made up from violence against person offences, sexual offences and robbery.
ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE In addition, information on the gender of those serving on the boards of public bodies is published Departmental Carbon Emissions annually on DECC’s website. Information for the 2010-11 period will be published in due course. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Electricity Generation: Wind Power Energy and Climate Change what recent steps his Department has taken to reduce its carbon emissions Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy to meet the target of reducing central Government and Climate Change how many applications for carbon emissions by 10 per cent. by June 2011. [36598] offshore wind generation under (a) section 36 of the Electricity Act 1989, (b) the Transport and Works Act Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the 1992 and (c) the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford were (i) granted and (ii) not granted consent in (A) (Jeremy Lefroy) on 18 October 2010, Official Report, each year from 2005 to 2010 and (B) 2011 to the latest column 478. date for which information is available; and what the Since then we have installed additional LED lighting reasons for not granting consent were in each case. and delivered our lowest ever monthly office emissions [36360] in December 2010 thanks in part to an effort to consolidate the use of space over the low-occupancy week between Charles Hendry: Section 36 offshore wind farm Christmas and new year. Current figures suggest we applications that were granted consent for the period in have already saved in excess of 100 tonnes compared to question are as follows: our target of 132 tonnes. 2005: 0 2006: 2 Departmental Public Appointments 2007: 4 2008: 6 Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009: 0 Energy and Climate Change how many (a) women and 2010: 0 (b) men have been appointed to public duties by his 2011 (to date): 0 Department since May 2010. [35399] No applications were refused consent in this period. Gregory Barker: Information on key public appointments No offshore wind farm projects were granted consent made since May 2010 is published in individual press and none were refused under the Transport and Works releases. Press releases are available at: Act 1992 during the period in question. http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/news/categories/releases/ The Town and Country Planning Act 1990 does not releases.aspx apply offshore. 437W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 438W
Energy: Prices Charles Hendry: We have not estimated a date on which global production of crude oil will peak. However, Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy we do look at a variety of sources that assess oil and Climate Change what steps his Department has demand and oil depletion including the IEA, industry taken to raise awareness of social tariffs among and other research organisations. In 2010, DECC’s low-income households in each of the last four chief scientist sent out a call for evidence on the prospects financial years. [35685] for future oil supply to a range of experts. A number of responses received argue that a supply ‘crunch’ (a tightness Gregory Barker: Following an announcement in the in the oil market), if not a peak in oil production, is very 2008 Budget the big six energy suppliers voluntarily likely before 2020. We are very grateful for the excellent agreed to increase their collective expenditure on their responses and will use the results to help ensure that our voluntary social programmes to at least £100 million in analysis is informed by all relevant factors and further 2008-09, £125 million in 2009-10, rising to £150 million develop energy policies that reduce the risks inherent in by 2011. a resource constrained future. Suppliers agreed in 2008 to provide greater visibility Liquefied Petroleum Gas of their social tariff offers. Following this Ofgem has worked with the suppliers to ensure that information Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for about their social tariffs and programmes and a contact Energy and Climate Change what account he plans to phone number for consumers to check their eligibility take of the (a) availability and (b) costs of liquid are available on all the suppliers’ websites. petroleum gas in his consideration of steps to assist Expenditure on suppliers’ social assistance as part of rural areas to respond to the effects of rising oil prices. the voluntary agreement is monitored by Ofgem and in [36658] their latest report they estimated that over 1.6 million customer accounts are benefitting from a supplier’s Charles Hendry: Many off-grid energy consumers social or discounted tariff, as at the end of March 2010. have been hit hard by high prices and supply issues this A copy of Ofgem’s report is available online at: winter. I am keen the reasons for this are thoroughly http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/SocAction/Suppliers/ investigated by an independent authority. This is why I CSR/Documents1/Monitoring%20Suppliers%20Social%20 asked the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) to bring forward Spend%202009-10.pdf its competition and consumer study into off-grid energy, The Voluntary Agreement comes to an end in March and asked the OFT if the study could explore the longer 2011 and will be replaced by the Warm Home Discount. term consumer issues such as lifetime payback, consumer Over the four years to 2015, suppliers will be required to standards and labelling for alternative energy sources or spend up to £1.1 billion to help fuel-poor and vulnerable supplies. Such a study would provide an independent consumers under this scheme. It is projected to help assessment of the off-grid market and establish what around two million households per year. further action may be necessary to ensure it works properly. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for I very much welcome the OFT’s decision to bring Energy and Climate Change when he last met forward their work which will look at the effectiveness representatives of (a) Ofgem and (b) energy suppliers of the off-grid energy market so we can assess what to discuss consumer energy prices. [36255] steps may need to be taken well ahead of next winter. Charles Hendry: DECC Ministers and officials meet Radioactive Waste with Ofgem and the energy suppliers on a regular basis to discuss market issues. Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy It is important that consumers have the lowest possible and Climate Change what his policy is on developing a energy bills, consistent with the need to invest to reduce deep earth repository for all radioactive waste; and carbon emissions from energy and ensure security of what the role of the Committee on Radioactive Waste supply. Management is in the design and siting of such a Ofgem therefore, monitors the market closely and facility. [36488] reports quarterly on retail prices. Their latest report shows large increases in estimated supplier margins for Charles Hendry: Government are undertaking a staged the year ahead, largely due to recent price increases. We process for implementing geological disposal of higher are disappointed on behalf of consumers by this activity radioactive waste, as set out in the 2008 White development and welcome the announcement of Ofgem’s Paper ‘Managing Radioactive Waste Safely: A framework review of the retail market. Ofgem will report on this for Implementing Geological Disposal’. This process is review in March of this year. This announcement is based on voluntarism and partnership with local available online at: communities with the first stage being local communities ‘expressing an interest’ in entering discussions with http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Media/PressRel/Documents1/ Retail%20Market%2026%20November.pdf Government about the geological disposal facility siting process. Fuel Oil To date, three ‘expressions of interest’ have been received (Copeland borough council, Cumbria county John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for council and Allerdale borough council) for the areas of Energy and Climate Change whether he has estimated Copeland and Allerdale. The authorities and local a date on which global production of crude oil will stakeholders are working together in partnership to peak; and if he will make a statement. [36644] consider whether to move to the next stage of the 439W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 440W process. The option to express an interest remains open Mr Philip Hammond: The Maritime and Coastguard and DECC officials are available to answer questions or Agency has been considering options for the reconfiguration advise any community who wishes to seek further of HM Coastguard Maritime Rescue Co-ordination information. Centres for sometime. I should emphasise that it is the Government, along with the Nuclear Decommissioning Rescue Co-ordination Centres, not the front line rescue Authority (NDA), are responsible for implementing services that are being reconfigured. geological disposal. The Committee on Radioactive The consideration has concentrated on development Waste Management’s (CoRWM’s) primary task is to of the most efficient and reliable nationally networked provide independent scrutiny and advice on the structure. This led to the proposal put to Ministers and Government’s and NDA’s proposals, plans and subsequently published on 16 December last year. The programmes to deliver geological disposal, together consultation runs until 24 March 2011. I encourage all with robust interim storage. Further information on the those with an interest to contribute. work of CoRWM is available on their website at: Rail Franchising http://corwm.decc.gov.uk
Warm Front Scheme: Finance 15. Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has for reform of rail franchising; and if he will make a statement. [36308] Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the budget for the Mrs Villiers: On 19 January, the Government set out Warm Front scheme will be in 2011-12. [37028] a new approach to franchising, taking account of the consultation which took place last summer. We expect Gregory Barker: As part of the spending review 2010, these reforms to deliver a railway which is more responsive the Government announced that we will continue to to passenger needs and provides better value for taxpayer fund a smaller targeted Warm Front programme for the investment. next two years, with £110 million available in 2011-12 and £100 million for 2012-13. Speed Cameras
Weather 16. Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps he is taking to make speed Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy camera data more accessible to the public. [36310] and Climate Change what representations his Department received on winter weather forecasts from Mrs Villiers: In December the Minister for Road the Met Office between October and December 2010. Safety, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead [36509] (Mike Penning), announced that by April 2011 more data on speed cameras would be made available to the Gregory Barker: The Met Office provided written public by local councils and the police. forecasts to the Cabinet Office towards the end of each A working group including representatives from the month: October, November and December; for the Home Office, the police and the Highways Agency is following three months. These were shared with the considering the best way to deliver this information. Department. The forecast in October for November to January Motoring Costs: Rural Areas stated that early to mid-winter in northern Europe was likely to be colder and drier than the 1971-2000 average, 17. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of with an increased risk of a cold and wintry start. State for Transport what assessment he has made of The update issued in November, for December to the effect of trends in the cost of motoring on people February, stated that the most likely scenario was for on low incomes living in rural areas. [36311] northern Europe to be colder and drier than the 1971-2000 average, with the cold bias likely to be stronger during Mr Philip Hammond: I have not made any specific the first half of the winter. assessment of the effect of trends in motoring costs on low income groups in rural areas. The update issued in December, for January to March, stated that again the most likely scenario was for northern However, independent studies suggest that between Europe to be colder and drier than the 1971-2000 1997 and 2010 motoring costs (including purchase costs) average. decreased by 7% in real terms. Crossrail Line
Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for TRANSPORT Transport what timetable he has set for operation of the first Crossrail trains; when he expects the whole line Coastguard Services service to be operational; and when he plans to publish the tender for the first trains. [35084] 14. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether his Department considered alternative Mrs Villiers: We expect that phased introduction of proposals for the modernisation of the structure of Crossrail services will commence from 2018. The detailed coastguard services prior to the publication of its timetable for the phased introduction of Crossrail services consultation paper. [36307] across the whole line will be announced in due course, 441W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 442W following the additional work I outlined to the House west midlands following the recent severe weather. It is on 14 December 2010, Official Report, columns 96-97WS. for each local highways authority to set its winter The invitation to tender for Crossrail rolling stock is service strategy and to ensure resources are in place to planned to be published in late 2011. deliver that strategy. Driving Standards Agency: Cardiff
Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for WALES Transport whether he plans to publish the (a) findings Referendum of the review and (b) subsequent report prepared in advance of the announcement of the closure of the Driving Standards Agency office in Cardiff. [34975] Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what progress she has made on arrangements for the Mike Penning: The report, incorporating the findings referendum on further powers for the National of the review of the proposal to close the Driving Assembly for Wales; and if she will make a statement. Standards Agency’s Cardiff office, was published on [37067] the agency’s corporate website at: Mrs Gillan: I can confirm that this Government have http://www.dft.gov.uk/dsa/category.asp?cat=779 delivered on our commitment to hold a referendum on on 18 January 2011. A copy of the report has been whether the National Assembly for Wales should have placed in the Libraries of the House. primary legislative powers over those areas that are Large Goods Vehicles: EU Action already devolved, which will take place on 3 March 2011. The legal instruments setting out the arrangements Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport for the referendum to take place were approved by Her what recent progress he has made on discussions with Majesty the Queen in Privy Council on 15 December his counterparts on proposed EU restrictions on the 2010. The Orders were previously approved by the height of commercial vehicles. [34829] National Assembly for Wales and both Houses of Parliament. It is now for the people of Wales to have Mike Penning [holding answer 20 January 2011]: their say in the referendum. Department for Transport officials have discussed this issue with the European Commission on several occasions including, most recently, at a meeting on 17 January. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT As I stated in my Westminster Hall debate on 18 January 2011, Official Report, columns 229-35WH, with Honours my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham), which the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, South also spoke at, the Government position is strongly Olympics, Media and Sport how many nominations for opposing this measure and we are working with other official honours for persons undertaking activities in member states and industry to ensure that the status areas within his Department’s remit his Department quo is maintained. The Commission is now reconsidering examined in each of the last three years; and how many its draft proposal. such honours were granted. [36695]
Railways: North West John Penrose: The Department for Culture, Media and Sport does not consider any nominations for official Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for honour for persons undertaking activities outside of its Transport what recent discussions his Department has remit. had with Network Rail on the planned electrification of rail lines between Manchester, Liverpool, Preston News Corporation and Blackpool; and if he will make a statement. [36312] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what correspondence Mrs Villiers: In November 2010 the Government he has had with Rupert Murdoch on News Corporation’s confirmed their support for the electrification of rail proposed takeover of BSkyB. [35561] lines between Manchester, Liverpool, Preston and Blackpool. Network Rail updates the Department every Mr Jeremy Hunt: All relevant correspondence up month on the progress of the electrification project until 24 January 2011 has been published in the written where specific programme issues are raised. statement of 25 January 2011, Official Report, columns 3-4WS. Any correspondence after this date will be Snow and Ice: West Midlands published at the time I reach my decision.
Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for Tourism Transport what assessment his Department has made of the adequacy of local transport infrastructure in the Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for West Midlands during the recent severe weather. [36297] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much funding his Department provided to promote tourism Norman Baker: No specific assessment has been made in each region in the latest period for which figures are of the adequacy of local transport infrastructure in the available. [36497] 443W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 444W
John Penrose: The regional development agencies Mr Gauke: Child benefit will be withdrawn from have had strategic responsibility for tourism in the families containing a higher rate taxpayer. Affected regions since 2003, including regional tourism investment. families are within the top 20% of the income distribution The Department for Culture, Media and Sport provides of all families (including those without children). Families funding to VisitBritain and VisitEngland. They are with no higher rate taxpayer who receive child benefit, responsible for promoting Britain abroad and England which is around 80% of all families claiming child in the UK and certain overseas markets. They endeavour benefit, will be unaffected by this policy. to ensure that their campaigns offer a fair spread of At the June Budget and the spending review, this coverage to destinations across the country. Government have taken the unprecedented step of However, up to 2007-08, DCMS contributed £3.6 publishing detailed distributional analysis of the impacts million a year to the eight non-London RDAs, in support of their decisions for the first time. For instance, charts of their regional role. This was reduced to £3.5 million B.4 and B.5 in Annex B of the “Spending Review 2010” and £3.4 million for 2008-09 and 2009-10. This money document show the overall impact of spending review was not ring-fenced for tourism—along with the and Budget measures by income decile in 2012-13. The contributions from other Government Departments it impact of the change to child benefit from its introduction was absorbed into the total Single Budget, which was in January 2013 to the end of the financial year is then allocated between the RDAs. It has been up to therefore captured in the analysis. each RDA to decide on how much it wishes to invest in tourism from its overall allocation from the Single Departmental Procurement Budget. Jon Trickett: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what single tender contracts his Department has awarded since his appointment; and what the monetary TREASURY value is of each contract above the EU public procurement threshold. [36184] Aggregates Levy Justine Greening: Between May-December 2010 HM John Mann: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Treasury awarded 10 contracts using single tender action. what plans he has for the future of the aggregates levy. One of those contracts (Support and Maintenance Services’ [34959] for the COINS spending data system) exceeded the EU public procurement threshold at a value of £1.4 million Justine Greening: The Government are fully committed (excluding VAT) for the period September 2010-July to reinstating the aggregates levy credit scheme in Northern 2013. Ireland and have submitted evidence to the European Commission to support a new decision to approve it as Enterprise Investment Scheme a state aid for environmental purposes. The Chancellor will make any other decisions on the aggregates levy at Mr Gyimah: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Budget when all taxes can be taken into consideration whether he plans to review the rules on the (a) as part of an overall fiscal judgment. connected persons and (b) the types of businesses classified as performing a qualifying trade in respect of Banks: Northern Ireland the Enterprise Investment scheme. [36359]
Lady Hermon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Gauke: The Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS) what meetings he has had with representatives of the plays a valuable role in incentivising investment into banking sector in Northern Ireland in the last 12 months. small companies. As with all areas of tax policy, the [36026] Government will keep the EIS under review to ensure that it is effectively meeting its policy objectives. Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide range of organisations and individuals Equality Impact Assessments in the public and private sectors as part of the process of policy development and delivery. As was the case John McDonnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s with reference to his Department’s paper Overview of practice to provide details of all such meetings. However, the Impact of Spending Review 2010 on Equalities, if a list of meetings with external stakeholders is published he will place in the Library a copy of the (a) questions on the Treasury website. This list can be found at: and (b) outcomes data from the screening process http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minister_hospitality.htm referred to in paragraph 1.8. [29198]
Child Benefit Justine Greening: At the spending review, the Treasury conducted a screening exercise to assess whether changes Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the areas of tax, welfare and public service pensions what estimate he has made of the effects on income of would have a particular impact on women or men, families with (a) one child and (b) two or more people of different ethnic origin or people with disabilities. children in each income decile of his proposed changes The results of these screening exercises can be found to the administration of child benefit (i) in cash terms in the publication “Overview of the Impact of the and (ii) as a proportion of income in each of the four Spending Review on Equalities” which was published financial years from April 2012. [34803] alongside the spending review announcement. As these 445W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 446W documents relate to ongoing policy development, it and, for qualifying charities, goods for use by disabled would not be appropriate to place copies in the Library people. All zero rates are derogations from the normal at this stage. EU VAT rules, and represent benefits not enjoyed by Full impact assessments will be considered and published charities elsewhere in Europe. by the relevant departments as the full details of these Charities carrying out non-taxable activities may incur policies are finalised. irrecoverable VAT on their purchases, but information is not available to assess accurately the amount or the Institute for Fiscal Studies effect of the increase in the standard rate of VAT.
Robert Halfon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 22 November 2010, Official Report, column 86W, on the Institute for Fiscal Studies SCOTLAND (IFS), which contracts his Department had with the IFS between 2002-03 and 2010-11; what the monetary Blood: Contamination value was of each such contract; and what tender process was undertaken in each case. [28824] Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with (a) Justine Greening: The majority of the Department’s Ministerial colleagues and (b) the Scottish Executive spending with the Institute for Fiscal Studies was for on the implementation in Scotland of compensation the Department’s membership of the Retirement Savings scheme for those infected by hepatitis C as a result of Consortium, at a cost of £12,500 per annum in 2008-09, receiving contaminated blood products during the when the last payment was made under the contract. 1970s and 1980s. [36496] The Department’s membership of the consortium pre-dates the Department’s contract details database and information David Mundell: The Secretary of State and I are in on any tender process that may have been undertaken is contact with ministerial colleagues and the Scottish not available. Government on a number of issues. This particular Public Expenditure matter has been dealt with by Ministers and officials from the Department of Health and the Scottish Government. Mr Godsiff: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer which central Government departments he expects to Devolution: Consultants have an underspend in 2010-11; and by what amount in each case. [33606] Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Danny Alexander: In line with usual practice, provisional Scotland what payments his Department has made to outturn for departmental expenditure against departmental consultants for work relating to devolution since 1997. expenditure limits (DELs) will be reported in forthcoming [36453] “Public Expenditure Outturn White Paper (PEOWP)”. David Mundell: The Scotland Office was established Stewardship of the Manor of Northstead on 1 July 1999. Since that date, one payment of £6,100 was made in financial year 2002-03 for a report on Thomas Docherty: To ask the Chancellor of the devolution within Europe. Exchequer for what reasons he appointed the Member elected to represent the Belfast West constituency at the Students: Visas May 2010 general election to be Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead. [37282] Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with the Mr George Osborne: I have nothing to add to the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the comments made in the House on 26 January 2011, effect on universities in Scotland of changes to student Official Report, columns 404-05. My appointment of visas. [36489] the former Member to the Stewardship of the Manor of Northstead was consistent with long-standing procedure, David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland as set out in Erskine May. and I are in regular discussion with ministerial colleagues in the Home Office, including on how changes to the VAT: Third Sector immigration system impact on Scotland.
Stuart Andrew: To ask the Chancellor of the Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Exchequer what estimate he has made of the average Scotland if he will publish each communication he has cost of the recent increase in the rate of value added received on the Home Office consultation by the Home tax to voluntary services and charities in each of the Office on changes to student visas. [36490] next three years. [33820] David Mundell: The Government’s consultation on Mr Gauke: Charities benefit from a range of tax student immigration is currently under way and closes reliefs which for 2009-10 the Government estimate are on 31 January. As was the case with previous worth approximately £3 billion per annum. These include Administrations, it is not standard practice to publish reliefs from VAT, for example: VAT zero-rating on the communications between Ministers on the development sale of donated goods, medical and scientific equipment of Government policy. 447W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 448W
Taxation 1. Who is expected to meet the costs of criminal records bureau checks for those recruited to work on the 2011 Census (35705) Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of 2. Whether people wishing to work for the 2011 Census campaign State for Scotland how much was (a) collected in will be required to pay for their own Criminal Records Bureau taxation and (b) spent on public services in Scotland in check (35744) each of the last five years. [36004] No one employed to work on the 2011 Census is subject to Criminal Records Bureau checks. However, in accordance with David Mundell: The UK Government do not publish Cabinet Office guidelines all staff are subject to checks for unspent figures for total taxes collected in Scotland. However, convictions through Disclosure Scotland. Either the Office for figures on identifiable public spending in Scotland are National Statistics (ONS) or its contractors meet the costs of published in HM Treasury’s Public Expenditure Statistical checks for unspent convictions. In some instances, applicants are Analyses. The Scottish Government do publish such asked to pay the fee required to carry out a check but this fee is estimates of tax receipts and total Government expenditure subsequently reimbursed by ONS. in their annual publication “Government Expenditure Charitable Donations and Revenue in Scotland”, available in the House of Commons Library and at: Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/06/22160331/0 Office what assessment he has made of long-term The most recent edition estimates that the net fiscal trends in altruism in the UK. [35805] balance in Scotland was a deficit of £14.7 billion for 2008-09. Once implemented, the financial provisions of Mr Hurd: For the Giving Green Paper published in the Scotland Bill would result in around 35% of the December 2010, long-term trends in volunteering and Scottish Parliament’s current budget being derived directly donating were assessed. This assessment provided part from taxes determined and raised in Scotland, replacing of the evidence base for the policy proposals to increase a substantial proportion of the existing block grant giving highlighted in the Green Paper. The assessment from the UK Government. found that levels of regular formal and informal volunteering have been stable since 2000. Over the last 30 years, average weekly household charity donations CABINET OFFICE have risen largely in line with GDP growth. 10 Downing Street: Operating Costs Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment he has made of giving levels as Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet a proportion of income for each socio-economic Office what estimate he has made of (a) the running grouping. [35807] costs of the Prime Minister’s living accommodation at Downing Street, including (i) utility charges, (ii) Mr Hurd: For the Giving Green Paper published in council tax, (iii) telephone costs, (iv) cleaning, (v) December 2010, donation patterns among different socio- insurance and (vi) maintenance and (b) the cost of any economic groups were assessed. This assessment provided changes made to the living accommodation since the part of the evidence base for the policy proposals to 2010 general election. [33786] increase giving highlighted in the Green Paper. The assessment found that people with high incomes are Mr Maude: As has been the practice under successive more likely to donate, but that donors on below average Administrations the Cabinet Office does not hold a incomes contribute the most as a proportion of their separate estimate for the running costs of the Prime income. Minister’s living accommodation, which form part of I will place a copy of the Giving Green Paper in the the overall Downing street estate. Libraries of the House. The Government self-insure their premises, so no premium is payable for insurance. Departmental Conferences My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister pays his own council tax for this accommodation. Robert Halfon: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what his Department’s annual budget for conferences Census: Vetting was on (a) 7 May 2010 and (b) 7 December 2010. [29963] Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) whether people recruited to work on Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office’s annual budget for the 2011 Census campaign will be required to pay for conferences on 7 May 2010 was £180,793. their own criminal record check; [35705] The Cabinet Office’s annual budget for conferences (2) who he expects to meet the costs of criminal on 7 December 2010 was £179,243 record checks for those recruited to work on the 2011 These figures represent the total amount budgeted Census. [35744] for conferences by those Cabinet Office management units who were able to identify this budget from the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Department’s accounting system and in the main reflects responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have the budget for conferences either organised or hosted asked the authority to reply. by the Cabinet Office. Some management units have Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: been unable to separately identify their budget for organised As Director General for the Office for National Statistics conferences as it has been subsumed within generic (ONS) I have been asked to reply to your recent questions asking: budget headings. 449W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 450W
The annual budget for attendance at conferences by NDPBs: Finance staff is not centrally held and is therefore available only at disproportionate cost. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what estimate he has made of the potential Former Prime Ministers: Allowances savings to the public purse arising from the review of non-departmental public bodies in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15. [36015] Pete Wishart: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) whether the Government plans to review the limit of public duty costs allowance for former Prime Mr Maude: I refer my hon. Friend to my response on 19 January 2011, Official Report, column 827. Ministers; [34219] (2) if he will consider the merits of making public individual claims by former Prime Ministers from the Non-departmental Public Bodies public duty costs allowance. [34220] Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Mr Maude: The public duty costs allowance for former if he will include a value for money test in future Prime Ministers is kept under review. reviews of non-departmental public bodies. [35149] Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office will publish draft Government Departments: Flexible Working guidance on the new review process shortly.
Paul Maynard: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Public Bodies: Consultants Office what plans he has to encourage Government Departments to adopt flexible working practices which Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet would allow disabled staff to work from home. [34755] Office (1) if he will review his Department’s guidance on expenditure by public bodies on public affairs Mr Maude: Departments have a responsibility to consultancies; [35465] make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled (2) what guidance his Department issues to public employees are not put at a substantial disadvantage by bodies on expenditure on public affairs consultancies. their environment, the way things are done or any [35495] physical feature of the workplace. In addition, the Government are committed to offering Mr Maude: Guidance on the use by public bodies of flexible working to their employees, including those public relations and similar consultancies is set out in with a disability. The coalition agreement outlines a Chapter 8 of the Cabinet Office publication, “Public commitment to extend the right to request flexible Bodies: A Guide for Departments”. This guidance is working to all employees which is being taken forward available at: by the Minister for Employment Relations, Consumer http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/public-bodies-and- and Postal Services, my hon. Friend the Member for appointments Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), and has my support. and copies are available in the Library of the House. The Public Administration Select committee has Government Departments: Security recommended that Government review this guidance. We will respond formally to the Committee’s Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet recommendations in due course. Office what arrangements are in place to determine the grant of passes to those not directly employed by Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Government departments authorising access to buildings Office how many public bodies within his Department’s occupied by such departments; what rules govern the area of responsibility have made payments to public issue of such passes to such individuals; which authority affairs consultancies in the last 12 months. [35516] is responsible for vetting applications for such passes; and how many such passes were issued in the latest Mr Maude: The information is available only at period for which figures are available. [36050] disproportionate cost. In May 2010 the Government announced a freeze on Mr Maude [holding answer 25 January 2011]: Passes new consultancy expenditure. Any exception to this may be issued to those who are required to make freeze (where the estimated value is over £20,000) must frequent visits to specific Government sites, subject to be approved by the relevant Minister. In the case of the the usual security checks. Individual Departments are Cabinet Office, the Minister for the Cabinet Office responsible for managing access to their sites, though approves any exception to the consultancy freeze. departmental arrangements must comply with the policy Expenditure on consultancy is only allowed if the principles set out in the HMG Security Policy Framework, consultancy is deemed to be operationally necessary, or available on the Cabinet Office website. For security the work cannot be done by in-house staff. All consultancy reasons it would not be appropriate to provide detailed contracts are subject to a review every three months, for information about specific measures implemented by a maximum of nine months. Where contracts go beyond Departments. The Cabinet Office does not collect nine months, they must be submitted for approval to the information about the number of such passes issued Efficiency and Reform Group for consideration by the across Government. Chief Secretary and the Minister for the Cabinet Office. 451W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 452W
Public Bodies: Lobbying The Cabinet Office has also published a civil service health and wellbeing framework which is available to all Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Departments and can be viewed via the civil service what plans he has to establish monitoring and website: enforcement procedures to ensure that public bodies do http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/improvinq/health/ not hire public relations and lobbying organisations. resources.aspx [35151] Race Online 2012 Mr Maude: The Public Administration Select Committee has recommended that Government review its monitoring Simon Kirby: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and enforcement procedures on the use by public bodies Office what steps he is taking to encourage other of PR consultants. We will respond formally to the Government Departments to engage with Race Online Committee’s recommendations in due course. 2012; and if he will make a statement. [34242] Public Sector: Sick Leave Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is responsible for encouraging all Departments to engage with Race Online Mr Amess: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office and support its valuable work. Many are already doing (1) what steps he has taken to reduce sickness (a) rates so for example Jobcentre Plus having recently become a and (b) absence in the public sector; and if he will Race Online partner and appointed a “digital champion” make a statement; [33092] in every Job centre to encourage jobseekers to develop (2) whether his Department has established pilot their online skills. projects to reduce absenteeism in public sector I recently announced the Government’s commitment agencies. [33101] to delivering services digitally by default, and as part of this, emphasised that we will work with Race Online to Mr Maude: The individual organisations that make encourage millions more people to go online, ensuring up the public sector have responsibility for ensuring that no one is excluded from the benefits of better, more that sickness absence is managed effectively. Cabinet efficient online services. Office hosts a forum for employers which span the civil service, public sector, private and voluntary sectors. This forum tackles cross cutting issues affecting the Suicide: Hartlepool work force, and shares best practice to address work force issues such as staff sickness absence. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Across the public sector, the Department of Health is Office how many suicides there were of people (a) of working with NHS Employers to improve support for each sex and (b) in each age group in Hartlepool NHS staff health and well-being and reduce sickness constituency in each of the last 10 years. [36441] absence rates in the NHS. Between April and June 2010 the average sickness absence rate for the NHS in England Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the was 3.89% falling from 4.05% for the same period in responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have 2009. asked the authority to reply. Many NHS organisations have developed unique Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: approaches to reducing staff absenteeism and have been As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I running local pilots tailored to the needs of their workforce. have been asked to reply to your recent question asking how many For example, an NHS Plus initiative improving delivery suicides there were of people (a) of each sex and (b) in each age of workplace and occupational health at York Hospitals group in Hartlepool constituency in each of the last 10 years. (36441) NHS Foundation Trust has reduced long term sickness absence rates by 40% since it was launched in 2008. The tables attached provide the number of deaths, where suicide was the underlying cause of death, for (a) each sex In response to Dame Carol Black’s Review of Health (Table 1) and (b) each age group (Table 2), in Hartlepool parliamentary of the UK, a UK wide programme jointly sponsored by constituency, for 2000 to 2009 (the latest year available). Department for Work and Pensions and Department of Suicide figures for persons aged 15 years and over in England Health is running 11 pilots to address long term sickness and Wales from 1991 onwards are available on the National absence across all sectors. The pilots combine a personalised Statistics website at: service tailored to the needs of the individual with www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=13618 employment support to address long-term sickness absence. Table 1: Number of deaths where suicide was the underlying cause of These will run and be evaluated until at least 2011. death, by sex, Hartlepool parliamentary constituency, 2000-20091,2,3,4 More information can be found by accessing the DWP Deaths website: Year Males Females http://www.dwp.gov.uk/health-work-and-well-being/our- work/fit-for-work-services/ 2000 10 1 The level of staff absence across the civil service as a 2001 7 1 whole is at its lowest since 1999. 41% of all staff had no 2002 10 4 sickness absence in the year up to 31 March 2010 and 2003 9 2 the average number of working days lost is currently 2004 4 3 8.7. Information about staff sickness absence in the civil 2005 5 2 service can be viewed at: 2006 3 1 http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/improving/health/ 2007 5 2 sickness-absence.aspx 2008 1 0 453W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 454W
Table 1: Number of deaths where suicide was the underlying cause of years, it would be unrealistic to accurately put a figure death, by sex, Hartlepool parliamentary constituency, 2000-20091,2,3,4 on what these might look like at this early stage. Deaths Year Males Females Voluntary Work: Young People 2009 7 2 1 Suicide was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Mr Offord: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes E950-E959 and E980-E989 (excluding Office what progress his Department is making on the E988.8) for the year 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes X60-X84 implementation of National Citizen Service pilots. and Y10-Y34 (excluding Y33.9 where the Coroner’s verdict was [37034] pending) for 2001 onwards. From 2007, deaths which were previously coded to Y33.9 are coded to U50.9. 2 Suicide and undetermined intent deaths have not been included for Mr Hurd: 12 providers have been appointed to run children under the age of 15 years. National Citizen Service (NCS) pilots for 16-year-olds 3 Based on boundaries as of 2010. in summer 2011. Over 11,000 NCS places will be available 4 Figures are based on deaths registered in each calendar year. in a wide range of locations in England, and those Table 2: Number of deaths where suicide was the underlying cause of organisations are now in the process of attracting young death, by age group, Hartlepool parliamentary constituency, people to join their pilot schemes. My Department, in 2000-20091,2,3,4 conjunction with the Department for Education and Deaths (persons) the Department for Communities and Local Government, Year 15-44 45-74 75 and over continues to work closely with our 2011 pilot providers and to plan for the second year of NCS pilots in 2012. 2000 4 6 1 2001 4 2 2 Weather 2002 8 5 1 2003 4 7 0 2004 3 4 0 Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what written long range winter weather forecast 2005 4 3 0 his Department received from the Met Office in 2006 2 2 0 October 2010. [35462] 2007 6 1 0 2008 0 1 0 Mr Maude: The Met Office provide the Government 2009 4 4 1 with regular updates throughout the year to inform 1 Suicide was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, short, medium and longer term planning. In late October, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) codes E950-E959 and E980-E989 (excluding E988.8) for the year 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes X60-X84 the Met Office provided a seasonal outlook for the UK and Y10-Y34 (excluding Y33.9 where the Coroner’s verdict was Government which advised that there was a 60% chance pending) for 2001 onwards. From 2007, deaths which were previously that temperatures would be average or warmer and a coded to Y33.9 are coded to U50.9. 70% chance that the would be average or colder. 2 Suicide and undetermined intent deaths have not been included for children under the age of 15 years. 3 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 4 Figures are based on deaths registered in each calendar year. HEALTH Voluntary Work Arthritis Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office if he will estimate (a) the number of people Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Health engaged in volunteering activity in England and (b) whether his Department plans to include rheumatoid the projected change to this number in the next three arthritis in future iterations of the Quality and years as a result of the Big Society initiative. [35974] Outcomes Framework; and if he will make a statement. [36690] Mr Hurd: The information is as follows: (a) As part of the Giving Green Paper published in Paul Burstow: The prioritisation of potential indicators December 2010, long-term trends in volunteering were for inclusion in the Quality and Outcomes Framework assessed. The assessment found that levels of regular is the responsibility of the National Institute for Health formal and informal volunteering have been fairly stable and Clinical Excellence. since 2000. The most recent data for England and Wales, suggests that around 29 million adults volunteered Blood: Contamination in 2010, of which, almost 18.5 million do so on a regular basis. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) Growing a big society will put people at the heart Health what discussions he has had with the devolved of their community. It will enable them to take greater administrations on the implementation of compensation responsibility for helping others and themselves to solve schemes for those infected by hepatitis C as a result of problems through social action, including volunteering, receiving contaminated blood products during the 1970s and to grasp opportunities to shape their neighbourhoods. and 1980s. [36493] The Giving Green Paper set out some innovative ideas for helping people fit volunteering around their everyday Anne Milton: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I lives, and we will expand on this in the White Paper to gave the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale be published early this year. Although we do anticipate East (Paul Goggins) on 17 January 2011, Official Report, increases in levels of volunteering over the next three column 543W. 455W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 456W
Cancer: Drugs posed by rarity and whether guidance should be issued on prioritising the fund application process, for example Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for to rarer cancers. Health how long on average he expects a patient to wait Decisions on the implementation of the Cancer Drugs for a response to a funding request to the Cancer Fund will be taken once the responses to the consultation Drugs Fund. [36088] have been considered.
Mr Simon Burns: The Cancer Drugs Fund will be Cancer: Health Services launched in April 2011. As an interim measure, we have made an additional Joseph Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for £50 million available to the national health service to Health what estimate he has made of the effect on support improved access to cancer drugs in this financial survival rates of implementation of his Department’s year. In July 2010 the NHS medical director issued cancer strategy. [36363] guidance to strategic health authorities which makes clear that arrangements for the distribution of this Paul Burstow: “Improving Outcomes: A Strategy for funding should support timely decision-making, bearing Cancer”, published on 12 January, sets out actions to in mind the 31 day cancer treatment standard. A copy tackle preventable cancer incidence, to achieve earlier of the guidance has been placed in the Library. diagnosis of cancer and to improve the quality and efficiency of cancer services. The impact assessment for Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for the strategy estimates that through the plans for earlier Health (1) what guidance he plans to issue to (a) diagnosis of symptomatic patients, screening developments strategic health authorities and (b) clinical panels on and expansion of radiotherapy services we can save at funding treatments from Cancer Drugs Fund least an additional 5,000 lives every year by 2014-15. allocations for patients with extremely rare cancers; [36089] Cannabis: Misuse (2) what mechanism he plans to put in place to ensure that proposed funding policies by clinical panels Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for for the Cancer Drugs Fund do not discriminate against Health how many people (a) under the age of 18, (b) applications by patients with rare cancers. [36090] between 18 and 24, (c) between 24 and 30 and (d) 30 and above were admitted to hospital for mental Mr Simon Burns: The public consultation on our illnesses attributable to the use of cannabis or skunk proposals for the Cancer Drugs Fund closed on 19 January. cannabis in each of the last 10 years. [36224] We have had almost 200 responses from the national health service, clinicians, pharmaceutical companies, Paul Burstow: The following table represents the count patients, charities, patient groups, members of the public, of finished admissions by required age groups for patients professional organisations and others. admitted to hospital with a primary diagnosis of mental The consultation asked for views on what advice we and behavioural disorders due to use of Cannabinoids can give the clinically-led panels on the specific challenge (ICD10 code F12).
Data years 2000-01 to 2009-10 Age group Under 18 18 to under 24 24 to under 30 30 and above Age not known Total
2000-01 69 192 126 194 — 581 2001-02 117 205 134 217 1 674 2002-03 86 245 142 231 — 704 2003-04 140 294 175 281 — 890 2004-05 116 283 210 259 — 868 2005-06 129 300 224 293 — 946 2006-07 92 218 175 251 14 750 2007-08 93 235 131 276 — 735 2008-09 71 197 163 219 1 651 2009-10 93 237 155 225 3 713 Notes: 1. Count of finished admission episodes with a primary diagnosis of mental and behavioural disorders due to use of Cannabinoids (ICD10 code F12). 2. Activity in English national health service hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care
Carers: Public Expenditure million was being made available for carers breaks over the next four years (2011-12 to 2014-15). This funding Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for will be made available in primary care trust (PCT) Health if he will introduce a mechanism to monitor the allocations (pending the introduction of general practitioner amount of his Department’s expenditure which is (GP) consortia). allocated to carers in each age group. [36251] It is this Government’s policy to enhance freedom for Paul Burstow: “Recognised, valued and supported: local government and PCTs as much as possible by next steps for the Carers’ Strategy” identified that £400 reducing the ring-fencing of monies, freeing up resources 457W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 458W to concentrate on local priorities and the delivery of statistics. Table 7 attached provides the number of deaths separately essential frontline services. It is for PCTs, and after for each cause where (a) accidents, (b) homicide or (c) suicide was them GP consortia, to manage their budgets and make the underlying cause of death, for persons aged 15 to 19 years, in decisions about how best to meet the health needs of England and Wales, for 2009. their local population. However, we are looking at how It is ONS practice not to calculate mortality rates where there we can make decision making more transparent. are fewer than three deaths in an area, as rates based on such low This includes using: numbers are susceptible to inaccurate interpretation. As this affects a large number of areas within each table, the number of the NHS Operating Framework, which sets out the priorities deaths in each area has been provided. for the national health service for the year ahead; the NHS Outcomes Framework, which sets out the outcomes To take the size of each area into account, Tables 8 to 11 provide and indicators that will be used to hold the NHS Commissioning the mid-year population estimates for (a) children aged one to Board to account for the outcomes it delivers through 14 and (b) persons aged 15 to 19, for each (i) local authority commissioning health services from 2012-13; and (Tables 8 and 9) and (ii) primary care organisation and local health board (Tables 10 and 11), in England and Wales, for 2009 the outcomes framework for adult social care, which is about (the latest year available). Mid-year population estimates for how we measure quality and outcomes in adult social care. parliamentary constituencies for 2009 will be available on 23 February Individual PCT recurrent revenue allocations are not 2011. broken down by service or policy area. It is for PCTs to Table 7. Number of deaths where accidents, homicide or suicide was commission services to meet the healthcare needs of the underlying cause of death, persons aged 15 to 19 years, England their local populations, taking account of local and and Wales, 20091,2,3 national priorities. There is not a weighted capitation Persons formula specific to ‘care’ that would allow needs to be Cause of death Deaths accurately identified at the local level. For these reasons, PCTs have not been advised of individual sums for Accidents 365 breaks. Homicide 80 Suicide 132 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Children: Death Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes V01-X59 (accidents), X85-Y09, U50.9 (homicide) and X60-X84, Y10-Y34 (suicide). Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2 Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. 3 (1) what the rate of mortality for children aged one to Figures are for deaths registered in 2009. 14 years was in each (a) local authority area, (b) health authority area and (c) constituency in the latest year for which figures are available; [35839] (2)what the rate of death of young people aged 15 to Departmental Contracts 19 years was by (a) accident, (b) homicide and (c) suicide in each (i) local authority area, (ii) health authority area and (iii) constituency in the latest year Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for which figures are available. [35840] what single tender contracts his Department has awarded since his appointment; and what the monetary Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. value is of each contract above the EU public The information requested falls within the responsibility procurement threshold. [36186] of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: Mr Simon Burns: This information is contained in the As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I following two tables beneath the heading ‘Department have been asked to reply to your recent questions asking: of Health—single tender contracts awarded since 12 1. What the rate of mortality for children aged one to 14 years May 2010’ (this is the date the Secretary of State for was in each (a) local authority area, (b) health authority area and Health was appointed). The first table contains information (c) constituency in the latest year for which figures are available. on the aggregate number and value of single tender (35839) contracts below the European Union threshold for public 2. What the rate of death of young people aged 15 to 19 years procurement. The second table contains details on each by (a) accident, (b) homicide and (c) suicide was in each (i) local such contract awarded above the threshold: the date the authority area, (ii) health authority area and (iii) constituency in contract was awarded (‘Purchase Order date’); the type the latest year for which figures are available. (35840) of services delivered and the supplying company; and Tables 1 to 3 provide the number of deaths of children aged finally the value of each contract. one to 14 years in each (a) local authority (Table 1), (b) primary care organisation and local health board (Table 2) and (c) Since 1 January 2010 the EU public procurement parliamentary constituency (Table 3), in England and Wales, for threshold for Central Government Departments has 2009 (the latest year available). been set at £101,323 for supplies and services contracts, Tables 4 to 6 provide the number of deaths where either (a) which applies to all those in the document. accidents, (b) homicide or (c) suicide was the underlying cause of death, for persons aged 15 to 19 years, in each (i) local authority Department of Health—single tender contracts awarded since 12 May (Table 4), (ii) primary care organisation and local health board 2010 (Table 5) and (iii) parliamentary constituency (Table 6), in England Table 1: Below OJEU threshold and Wales, for 2009 (the latest year available). Purchase order volume Purchase order amount exc VAT Figures for accidents, homicide and suicide in Tables 4 to 6 have been combined to protect confidentiality, in line with the 190 8,669,374.00 ONS policy on protecting confidentiality within birth and death 459W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 460W
Table 2: Above OJEU threshold Purchase order amount Purchase order date Vendor type Category Supplier name exc VAT
9 November 2010 Professional Bodies Prof Serv—Other Learning The Society of Apothecaries 105,000.00 and Develop 8 November 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Hays Specialist Recruitment Ltd 111,755.00 14 July 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Ernst and Young LLP 120,000.00 28 May 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Oxford Healthcare Associates Ltd 125,000.00 21 January 2011 Commercial Supplier Professional Services PA Consulting Group Ltd 126,000.00 22 June 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Ernst and Young LLP 128,000.00 7 December 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Peters and Peters Solicitors LLP 146,530.00 14 January 2011 Academic Institution Professional Services Manchester University of 149,404.00 2 July 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Jonathan Watts TA Bowe Watts Clargo 179,523.75 19 May 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Capita SHG Resourcing 195,300.00 28 May 2010 Commercial Supplier Miscellaneous Costs Exercise Movement and Dance Partnership Ltd 200,000.00 10 August 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Spring Technology 234,520.00 12 January 2011 Commercial Supplier Professional Services PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP 282,000.00 20 August 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Peters and Peters solicitors LLP 291,530.00 27 May 2010 Commercial Supplier Professional Services PA consulting group Ltd 429,360.00 17 January 2011 Commercial Supplier Professional Services Phoenix consultancy 450,000.00
Drugs: Rehabilitation Health and Social Care Bill
Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health pursuant to the answer of 4 November 2010, what equality impact assessment his Department Official Report, column 883W, on drugs: rehabilitation, undertook on the Health and Social Care Bill. [36633] what progress the Institute of Psychiatry’s National Addiction Centre has made on exploration of the Mr Simon Burns: A full equality impact assessment outcomes of the randomised injectible opiate treatment was published alongside the Bill on 19 January. A copy trials; when it will conclude its work; and what plans he has already been placed in the Library and is available has to publish its conclusions. [36512] on the Department’s website at: www.dh.gov.uk/healthandsocialcarebill Anne Milton: The randomised injectible opiate treatment In carrying out the equality impact assessment of the trial, conducted by the Institute of Psychiatry’s National Health and Social Care Bill, the Department considered Addiction Centre (NAC) concluded in 2009, and findings all the relevant protected characteristics covered by the were published in the Lancet in May 2010. It would be a Equality Act 2010 in accordance with good practice decision for NAC whether to publish any further reports guidance from the Equality and Human Rights of that research. Commission. The Drugs Strategy (published in December 2010) Health Visitors “Reducing demand, restricting supply, building recovery: Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for supporting people to live a drug free life”, sets out the Health what his policy is on the maximum number of coalition Government’s commitment to continue to examine children under five years who may be part of the the potential role of diamorphine prescribing for the caseload of a full-time health visitor. [36020] small number who may benefit. We will set out our plans in due course. Anne Milton: The Department does not collect data regarding case loads and decisions of this nature will be locally determined. General Practitioners: North Yorkshire Our objective is to ensure that certain services, such as those prescribed by the Healthy Child Programme, are available to every family with a young child and that Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for extra help is there for those who need it. By growing the Health what recent representations he has received on work force by 4,200 health visitors, we want existing practice-based commissioning in North Yorkshire; and and new health visitors to be able to build on their role if he will make a statement. [35973] and skills and provide an important bridge to the wider community, developing local community resources to Mr Simon Burns: Departmental records show that, support families and children and local health issues. since May 2010, it has received 10 representations about We will shortly publish an implementation plan, which practice-based commissioning in North Yorkshire, will illustrate how families will benefit from a bigger comprising one parliamentary question and nine pieces work force and set out high-level plans for delivery, of correspondence. including work to: Four of the pieces of correspondence were sent by conduct a demographic and geographical analysis to establish Members of Parliament on behalf of the North Yorkshire location and population need and match with trainees and Local Involvement Network about their feedback on training places; and the White Paper “Equity and excellence: Liberating the ensure positive correlation between work force growth and NHS” which was published on 12 July 2010. population need. 461W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 462W
Heroin Anne Milton: The Department of Health has been taking action to reduce undiagnosed and late diagnosis Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for of HIV. We invested £750,000 in eight pilot projects in Health what recent assessment his Department has high prevalence areas looking at new approaches to made of the relative effectiveness in treatment of HIV testing in primary care, non-specialist hospital prescribing (a) heroin and (b) methadone. [36491] settings and community social settings. On 1 December, the Health Protection Agency published Anne Milton: In 2003 the National Treatment Agency an interim report “Time to test for HIV: Expanded for substance misuse published “Injectable heroin (and healthcare and community HIV testing in England” on injectable methadone)—Potential roles in drug treatment”, their review of these pilots. A copy of the report has which was a review of the both international and United already placed in the Library.Findings show that expanding Kingdom studies on injectable heroin and methadone HIV testing in hospital/general practitioner/community treatment in the management of addiction. settings is feasible, and acceptable to patients and staff. www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/ These findings from these pilots will add to our evidence nta_injectable_heroin_and_methadone_2003_summary.pdf base on increasing HIV testing especially in high prevalence The findings of this guidance were subsequently areas. A full report will be produced early 2011. incorporated and referred to in the Department’s 2007 The Department has also funded the Medical Foundation “Drug misuse and dependence—UK guidelines on clinical for AIDS and Sexual Health to produce the training management”. resource for non-specialist staff, “Tackling HIV Testing— www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/clinical_guidelines_2007.pdf increasing detection and diagnosis”. More recently, the results of the randomised injectable opiate treatment trial were reported in The Lancet on 28 May 2010. The report’s conclusions included, that in HIV Infection: Brighton this group of entrenched users who had not responded to other forms of treatment, Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for “treatment with supervised injectable heroin leads to significantly Health how many people in Brighton, Kemptown lower use of street heroin than does supervised injectable methadone or optimised oral methadone”. constituency were diagnosed with HIV in each of the last three years. [36576] Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many individuals have received Anne Milton: The available information for Brighton prescriptions for (a) heroin and (b) methadone in and Hove Primary Care Trust (PCT) which covers each year since 2002. [36492] Brighton Pavilion, Brighton Kemptown and Hove, is shown in the following table: Mr Simon Burns: Diamorphine (heroin) is indicated Number of new HIV diagnoses in Brighton and Hove PCT: 2007-09 for cough suppression, acute pain, chronic pain, myocardial New HIV diagnoses Number infarction and acute pulmonary oedema, as well as in the treatment of opioid dependency. 2007 143 Methadone is indicated for cough suppression, severe 2008 132 pain and for the treatment of opioid dependency. 2009 111 Prescribing data do not record the number of patients Notes: 1. Data are new HIV diagnoses reported to the end of June 2010. receiving diamorphine and methadone. However, the 2. New diagnosis data do not necessarily reflect recently acquired number of prescriptions dispensed for these drugs is as infections, as patients may live for many years without diagnosis. follows. 3. Data represents place of diagnosis, not place of residence. There is evidence that a substantial proportion of individuals are diagnosed Items (thousand) outside of their PCT of residence. 4. Complete data from 2010 will be available from August 2011. Diamorphine/heroin Methadone Source: 2002 96.0 1,428.4 Health Protection Agency 2003 98.6 1,614.2 2004 102.9 1,810.0 Hospitals: Food 2005 60.8 2,044.0 2006 65.6 2,277.1 2007 83.2 2,491.9 Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2008 97.8 2,738.0 what recent discussions he has had on applying 2009 109.2 2,968.0 Government Buying Standards to the food served in Note: hospitals and other NHS facilities; and if he will make PCA data—Prescription information is taken from the Prescription a statement. [36087] Cost Analysis (PCA) system, supplied by the Prescription Services Division of the NHS Business Services Authority (BSA), and is based on a full analysis of all prescriptions. Anne Milton: We have no plans to make a statement nor have we had any discussions on the application of HIV Infection the Government Buying Standards (GBS) for food in hospitals or the national health service estate. NHS Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for organisations are encouraged to take up the GBS for Health what steps he is taking to reduce levels of food on a voluntary basis in the recently published undiagnosed HIV. [35991] “NHS Operating Framework 2011/12”. 463W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 464W
In Vitro Fertilisation Numbers and rates, based on three-year aggregated data, for infant mortality by local authority and strategic health authority are available on the ONS website at: Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/ for Health with reference to the letter from his LeadHome.do Department of 11 January 2011, what steps he is taking Data are published for 1998-2000 through to 2006-08. to support primary care trusts in implementing his Department’s strategies on commissioning of IVF Low Birthweight Babies services; and if he will make a statement. [36373] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Anne Milton: Primary care trusts are well aware of what proportion of births involved low birth weight their statutory commissioning responsibilities and the infants in each (a) local authority area, (b) health need to base commissioning decisions on clinical evidence authority area and (c) constituency in each year for and discussions with local general practitioner which figures are available. [35749] commissioners, secondary care clinicians and providers. The NHS deputy chief executive, David Flory, wrote Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. to primary care trust commissioners on 11 January The information requested falls within the responsibility 2011 to highlight the importance that those involved in of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority commissioning fertility services have regard to the National to reply. Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence fertility guidelines, including the recommendation that up to Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: three cycles of in vitro fertilisation are offered to eligible As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I couples where the woman is aged between 23 and 39. have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what proportion of births involved low birth weight infants in each (a) A copy of this communication has already been local authority area, (b) health authority area and (c) constituency placed in the Library and is available at: in each year for which figures are available. [35749]. www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ Table 1 provides the percentages of live births in England and documents/digitalasset/dh_123405.pdf Wales with low birthweight (less than 2,500 grams) in each (a) local authority, (b) primary care organisation and (c) parliamentary Additionally, the Department has published a constituency, for 2005-09, the most recent years for which figures commissioning aid setting out best practice for are available. commissioners, supports Infertility Network UK A copy of the tables has been placed in the House of Commons (INUK)—a leading patient support organisation—to library. develop and promote standardised access criteria, and Information on births is routinely published by different to work in partnership with commissioners to encourage characteristics, including birthweight, and at various geographies. good practice in the provision of fertility services. The information is available at: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=14408 Infant Mortality Mental Health Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the infant mortality rate was in each (a) local Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for authority area, (b) health authority area and (c) Health what assessment he has made of potential links constituency in each year in which figures are available. between economic downturns, levels of worklessness [35616] and the incidence of mental health disorders; and if he will make a statement. [36387] Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. Paul Burstow: There is good evidence that in times of The information requested falls within the responsibility recession and high unemployment, rates of mental illness of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority does tend to rise. We will soon be publishing a new to reply. cross-Government mental health strategy that has the Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: twin aims of promoting and sustaining good mental As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I health and well-being in the wider population, and have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what the improving the quality of existing services for people infant mortality rate was in each (a) local authority area, (b) across the full range of mental health problems. It looks health authority area and (c) constituency in each year in which at prevalence of problems and effective approaches at figures are available. [35616]. different stages in life, stressing the importance of prevention Table 1 provides the infant mortality rate in each (a) local and early intervention. authority and (b) primary care organisation in England and The Health settlement in the spending review included Wales. Figures are for 2007-09, the most recent period for which figures are available. The data are presented as three year aggregates funding to expand access to talking therapies. The in order to smooth the annual fluctuations in deaths and provide money will complete the roll out of the nationwide large enough numbers to ensure that the figures are sufficiently training programme and services which began in 2008 robust. and begin to extend the benefits of talking therapies to A copy of the tables has been placed in the House of Commons the young, the elderly, those with serious mental illness library. and those who have anxiety disorders or depression Due to the sensitive nature of infant deaths and the risk of alongside long-term physical health conditions like diabetes, identifying individuals, ONS does not publish infant mortality heart or lung disease. By March 2011, the roll out will figures for smaller areas. Consequently, rates by (c) parliamentary achieve 60% geographical coverage of England. The constituency are not provided. spending review settlement will complete this by 2014-15. 465W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 466W
For individuals on benefits, there is support available Mental Health: Armed Forces from all of the Department of Work and Pensions’ employment programmes through both mainstream and Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for specialist services. They provide personalised support Health (1) what components will be included in the to help individuals overcome their challenges to work, health for heroes scheme; how many family doctors will including job broking, health-related support and receive training under the scheme; and how many signposting to relevant services. In each Jobcentre Plus therapists will be attached to hospitals for the purposes district, there is a mental health co-ordinator function, of identifying post-traumatic stress disorders; [36367] which develops practical links between mental health and employment services and provides intelligence to (2) what timetable he has set for the implementation advisers. Jobcentre Plus advisers also have access to of the health for heroes scheme; when he plans to make disability employment advisers and work psychologists, an announcement on the details of the scheme; when who provide support and advice in relation to claimants he plans to introduce training for family doctors under and employees who have the most complex work-related the scheme; and when he plans to implement the support needs. attachment of therapists into hospitals for the purposes of identifying post-traumatic stress disorders; [36368] Mental Health Services: Nurses (3) which Departments will provide funding for the health for heroes scheme in each year to 2014-15; and how much funding each Department will provide; Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for [36369] Health (1) at what (a) pay grade and (b) rank the 30 (4) how much funding he plans to provide for the additional mental health nurses in mental health trusts health for heroes scheme in each year to 2014-15. announced in the Strategic Defence and Security [36370] Review will be employed when they begin work; and how many he expects to be (i) existing and (ii) newly Mr Simon Burns: The Department of Health is working recruited staff; [36507] with the national health service, Ministry of Defence (2) in which mental health trusts the 30 additional (MOD) and service charities to deliver in England the mental health nurses announced in the Strategic recommendations put forward by my hon. Friend the Defence and Security Review will be stationed; when he Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) in his expects them to begin work; and whether they are to report to the Prime Minister, ‘Fighting Fit’, that was receive any additional or specialist training. [36508] published in October 2010. The specification for delivery of 30 additional mental health nurses is currently being Mr Simon Burns: The Department of Health is working developed through the armed forces networks that are with the national health service, Ministry of Defence led by strategic health authorities. Commissioning for and service charities to deliver the recommendations the service will commence in April 2011. There will be put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for South flexibility within the specification to ensure that additional West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) in his report to the Prime resources are placed where they will have the most Minister, ‘Fighting Fit’, that was published in October impact for veterans with mental health problems. This 2010. The specification for the employment of 30 additional specification will ensure that those employed will have mental health nurses is currently being developed through the right competencies to deliver this service. Wider the armed forces networks that are led by the strategic training on veterans’ issues will also be provided. health authorities. Commissioning for the service will The Department of Health is working with the Royal commence in April 2011. There will be flexibility within College of General Practitioners (GPs), MOD and the specification to ensure that the additional resources service charities to develop an e-learning package to are placed where they are likely to make the most provide GPs with specific information about the needs impact for veterans with mental health problems. This and requirements of veterans. The e-learning package specification will ensure that those employed will have will complement GP’s formal undergraduate and the right competencies to deliver this service. Wider postgraduate education and training and will build on training on veterans’ issues will also be provided. other initiatives to raise awareness among GPs of the health care needs of veterans and the services available Mental Health Services: Prisons to them. The aim is to have the e-learning package available to GPs by the summer. This educational support will provide GPs with the necessary knowledge and Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for skills to: Health what proportion of offenders with diagnosed mental health disorders were receiving treatment in Understand the key health issues affecting veterans; each of the last five years for which figures are Respond to the common barriers that prevent veterans from available. [36227] accessing health care; Recognise how mental health problems commonly present in Paul Burstow: The information requested is not collected veterans; and centrally. Currently offenders are screened on arrival at Ensure that veterans get the best possible treatment. prison and referred for a mental health assessment and The Department of Health will allocate up to £7.2 million treatment, if appropriate. The Department is working over the spending review period, around £1.8 million with the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office to roll per year to deliver the recommendations put forward by out a national diversion service at police stations and my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire courts, for offenders with mental health problems, by (Dr Murrison). Within the MOD, work on assessing 2014. any future costs and resource requirements for implementing 467W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 468W the recommendations is currently under way and will be research to determine the scale, causes and cost of assessed as part of the MOD’s planning process, but it waste medicines in England. The report, “Evaluation of is not possible to give any financial data at this time. the Scale Causes and Cost of Waste Medicines”, was published by the researchers on 23 November 2010. It Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for found that the gross cost of unused NHS prescription Health (1) what training his Department plans to give medicines was an estimated £300 million a year in to family doctors as part of the proposed health for England for 2009, of which the researchers estimated heroes scheme; when the training will (a) commence that £150 million was avoidable waste. The report also and (b) be completed; and by what date he expects the concluded that there was potential for greater financial doctors to be practising; [36516] and health gains through people taking their medicines (2) how many therapists he proposes to engage in as intended. hospitals to identify post-traumatic stress disorder in While we are concerned about wastage from unused servicemen as part of the proposed health for heroes medicines, we cannot promote the reuse of returned scheme; what training and qualifications such medicines from patients on grounds of hygiene and safety. therapists will be required to have; and from what date he expects such therapists to be deployed. [36517] NHS: Fertility
Mr Simon Burns: The Department of Health is working Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State with the Royal College of General Practitioners (GPs), for Health whether commissioning of NHS infertility the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and service charities to services will come within the remit of the proposed develop an e-learning package to provide GPs with NHS Commissioning Board; and if he will make a specific information about the needs and requirements statement. [36372] of veterans. The e-learning package will complement GP’s formal undergraduate and postgraduate education Anne Milton: Responsibility for the commissioning and training and will build on other initiatives to raise of national health service infertility services has not yet awareness among GPs of the health care needs of been agreed. veterans and the services available to them. The aim is to have the e-learning package available to GPs by the NHS: Training summer. This educational support will provide GPs with the necessary knowledge and skills to: Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Understand the key health issues affecting veterans; State for Health what estimate he has made of the cost Respond to the common barriers that prevent veterans from to the NHS of the Stonewall NHS Leadership accessing health care; programme at Ashridge Business School in March 2011; and if he will make a statement. [36136] Recognise how mental health problems commonly present in veterans; and Paul Burstow: The Stonewall NHS Leadership Ensure that veterans get the best possible treatment. Programme is being delivered by Stonewall at no cost to The Department of Health is working with the national the national health service. The Department is funding health service, MOD and service charities to deliver in the programme at a cost of £36,000 with the aim of England on the recommendations put forward by my providing targeted leadership support to lesbian, gay hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr and bisexual staff within the NHS. The programme will Murrison) in his report to the Prime Minister, ‘Fighting contribute towards the Government Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual Fit’, that was published in October 2010. The specification and Transgender Action Plan to be launched in February for the employment of 30 additional mental health 2011. nurses is currently being developed through the armed forces networks that are led by the strategic health North East Offender Health Commissioning Unit authorities, and bring together primary care trusts with local representatives of the armed forces community, Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State service charities and others. Commissioning for the for Health what assessment he made of the merits of service will commence in April 2011. This specification each application to the North East Offender Health will ensure that those employed will have the right Commissioning Unit for the award of a contract to competencies to deliver this service. Wider training on provide NHS primary care services in respect of (a) veterans’ issues will also be provided. quality, (b) delivery, (c) risk and (d) price. [36483]
NHS: Drugs Paul Burstow: Responsibility for commissioning health services in publicly run prisons in England has been Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for fully devolved to national health service primary care Health what estimate he has made of the annual cost to trusts since 2006. the NHS of unused medicines which were subsequently This is a local issue for North East Offender Health destroyed in the latest year for which figures are available; Commissioning Unit to comment on their own procurement and for what reason such drugs returned to the NHS process. are not reissued to patients requiring prescriptions. [34504] Prescriptions: Fees and Charges
Mr Simon Burns: The Department commissioned the Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for York Health Economics Consortium and the School of Health what estimate his Department has made of the Pharmacy at the University of London to carry out number of people who used a pre-payment certificate 469W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 470W for prescriptions in the latest period for which figures be responsible for resolving primary care trust legacy are available; and how many people purchased a debt that arose prior to 2011-12. pre-payment certificate in each of the last five years. The detailed financial regime for the new health [36038] system is still being developed and part of that development will include the treatment of existing liabilities within Mr Simon Burns: Information is not collected on the the Statement of Financial Position of Primary Care number of people using a prescription prepayment Trusts for the future. certificate (PPC). Information on the number of PPCs valid on 20 January 2011 is shown in the following table. Sexually Transmitted Diseases PPCs active1 on 20 January 2011, England2 Certificate duration Number Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for 3 months 161,961 Health what steps he is taking to increase the 12 months 673,498 availability of community-based testing for sexually Total 835,459 transmitted infections. [35990] 1 The PPC expiry date was on or after 20 January 2011. 2 PPCs can have a start date one month prior to or one month after Anne Milton: On 21 December 2010, we published the date the application is received by NHS HwHC . Therefore the “Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Consultation on the number of active PPCs on 20 January may increase if backdated funding and commissioning routes for public health”, a PPCs are issued. Source: copy of which has already been placed in the Library. NHS Help with Health Costs (HwHC) PPC database. The aim of this consultation, which closes on 31 March, The number of PPCs issued or purchased since 2005-06 is to ensure the Department gets details of the new is shown in the following table. public health system right while also delivering significant improvements to the health of the population. PPCs issued or purchased, England The Department proposes that local authorities will Duration of certificates be responsible for commissioning comprehensive open 3 month 4 month 12 month Total access sexual health services, using funds from the ring- 2005-06 — 638,413 524,232 1,162,645 fenced public health budget. This includes commissioning 2006-07 — 650,782 520,449 1,171,231 testing and treatment of sexually transmitted infections 2007-081 474,570 176,503 593,507 1,244,580 (STIs) including opportunistic Chlamydia testing in the 2008-09 730,592 — 652,870 1,383,462 community, high quality partner notification activity 2009-10 714,594 — 662,588 1,377,182 and working with general practitioner practices to encourage 2010-112 540,604 — 504,166 1,044,770 testing and treatment of STIs in primary care. 1 3 Month PPCs were introduced in July 2007. 2 2010-11 covers 1 April to 20 January 2011. Smoking: Health Services Source: NHS Help with Health Costs (HwHC) PPC database. Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many people accessed the NHS Smoke Health pursuant to the answer of 25 October 2010, Free website in each quarter since 1 April 2009. [35980] Official Report, column 126W, on prescriptions: fees and charges, when he and his Ministerial colleagues Anne Milton: The following table shows the number plan to look at options for creating a new system of of people who visited the national health service Smoke prescription charges and exemptions in England; and Free website in each quarter since 1 April 2009. by what date he expects to have agreed a set of options. [36046] Number Q1 April to June 2009 337,134 Mr Simon Burns: We are continuing to explore options Q2 July to September 2009 501,589 for reforming the current prescription charging arrangements, taking into account the financial context. Q3 October to December 2009 567,853 In particular, we are examining the implications of the Q4 January to March 2010 915,259 introduction of universal credit in relation to those current benefits that entitle the recipient of that benefit Q1 April to June 2010 234,569 to free prescriptions. We are also looking at the implications Q2 July to September 2010 162,938 of state pension age changes. We will make announcements Q3 October to December 2010 248,873 about how these changes will be implemented in due course. The figures above are based on unique visitors to the website, not on the total number of visits. Primary Care Trusts: Debts Social Services Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent discussions he has had on future Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for liabilities for sums owed by primary care trusts. [36138] Health what estimate he has made of the minimum annual number of site visits to social care providers Mr Simon Burns: The “2011/12 NHS Operating under the new inspection methodology and staffing Framework” states that general practitioner consortia complement proposed for the Care Quality Commission; will have their own budgets from 2013-14. They will not and if he will make a statement. [36021] 471W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 472W
Paul Burstow: The new registration system for private Mr Simon Burns: The NHS Commissioning Board and voluntary healthcare and adult social care providers will have a vital role in providing national leadership for was set out in the Health and Social Care Act 2008 (the driving up the quality of care across health commissioning, 2008 Act). It came into effect from 1 October 2010. including stroke services. The Board will do this by The 2008 Act does not set minimum inspection supporting general practitioner consortiums in a number frequencies for services. Instead, it enables the Care of ways including: Quality Commission (CQC) to adopt a proportionate publishing evidence based commissioning guidance and model approach to inspection. Discussions about when to care pathways building on the national stroke strategy and the inspect are based on ongoing intelligence gathering and recently published National Institute for Health and Clinical an assessment of risk. This means CQC targets its Excellence quality standard for stroke as appropriate; and resources on providers where the risk is highest, while designing the Commissioning Outcomes Framework and the reducing the regulatory burden on providers where the new quality premium. risk is low. It will be for the Board to determine the details of its CQC implements its approach to inspections in two work programme and the content of commissioning ways. CQC carries out planned and responsive reviews guidance. of a provider’s compliance with the registration requirements. A planned review of compliance is a Suicide scheduled check of compliance with all of the 16 key essential safety and quality requirements. A responsive Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health review of compliance is carried out when information, if he will assess long-term trends in rates of suicide or a gap in information, raises concerns about people among those aged (a) 15 to 19, (b) 20 to 24 and (c) 65 not experiencing the outcomes they should. Unlike a years and over. [35798] planned review of compliance, a responsive review is not a full check of compliance with all 16 key essential Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. requirements; it targets the area(s) and outcomes that the specific concerns or gaps relate to. The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority In terms of staffing, CQC is an independent body to reply. and it is therefore for CQC to determine the appropriate staffing complement in order to carry out its functions Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated January 2011: efficiently and effectively. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking about Strokes long-term trends in rates of suicide among those aged (a) 15 to 19, (b) 20 to 24 and (c) 65 years and over. (35798) Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The table provides age-specific mortality rates, where suicide if he will take steps to ensure co-ordination between GP was the underlying cause of death, for persons aged (a) 15 to 19, (b) 20 to 24 and (c) 65 years and over, in England and Wales, for consortia in order to provide quality stroke care. [36628] 1991 to 2009 (the latest year available). Suicide figures for persons aged 15 years and over in England Mr Simon Burns: General practitioner (GP) consortia and Wales from 1991 onwards are available on the National working with other health and care professionals will Statistics website at: commission the great majority of NHS services for www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=13618 their patients, including stroke care services. They will not be directly responsible for commissioning services that GPs themselves provide, nor will they be responsible Sunbeds for commissioning the other family health services. These will be the responsibility of the NHS Commissioning Stephen Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Board, as will national and regional specialised Health (1) what steps he plans to take to publicise the commissioning. implementation of the Sunbeds (Regulation) Act 2010 The NHS Commissioning Board will support GP in England; [35989] consortia in their commissioning decisions. The board (2) what recent estimate he has made of the number will provide leadership for quality improvement through of persons in England (a) under 18 and (b) aged 18 commissioning. This will include setting commissioning and 19 years using sunbeds. [36158] guidelines on the basis of clinically approved quality standards developed with advice from the National Anne Milton: The Department does not routinely Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence and in the collect information on the number and age of persons case of stroke, the national stroke strategy, in a way that using sunbeds in England. However, information promotes joint working across health, public health and summarising sunbed usage in different age groups is social care. available from a number of sources including: Furthermore, the Health and Social Care Bill provides Cancer Research UK for consortia to work collaboratively on commissioning, http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/skin/ for example, by entering into lead commissioner and sunbeds pooled budgetary arrangements. The Committee on Medical Aspects of Radiation in the Environment Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether his proposed National Commissioning Board www.comare.org.uk/documents/COMARE13thReport.pdf will include quality markers from the national stroke The South West Public Health Observatory strategy in its commissioning guidance. [36629] www.swpho.nhs.uk/resource/item.aspx?RID=68377 473W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 474W
We are working with stakeholders to provide appropriate These data are based on information derived from a information relating to the Sunbeds (Regulation) Act number of sources and can only be an estimate, not 2010. least because of the difficulties in ensuring a consistent interpretation of the basis for collating statistics in a Tobacco: Retail Trade complex fast-moving multinational operational environment. It is modified over time as more information Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Health becomes available. what assessment his Department has made of the potential effects on public health of removing tobacco Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for point of sale displays from retail outlets. [36663] Defence how many Territorial Army personnel of each rank based in Northern Ireland were deployed on Anne Milton: The impact assessment for the Health operations in Afghanistan in each of the last three Act 2009 sets out the Department’s assessment of the years for which figures are available. [36023] likely public health benefits of removing tobacco displays in shops. The impact assessment has already been placed Nick Harvey: The numbers currently available for in the Library. Territorial Army personnel of each rank based in Northern Ireland who were deployed in Afghanistan over the last three years, are shown in the following table: DEFENCE Rank 2008 2009 2010 Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations LtCol 0 0 0 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Maj 10 0 0 Defence how many improvised explosive device attacks Capt 20 10 0 there have been on UK forces in Afghanistan in each Lt/2Lt 10 0 0 month since April 2009. [35527] WO1000 Dr Fox [holding answer 24 January 2011]: Records of WO2 10 0 0 incidents for the whole of Afghanistan are not held SSgt 10 10 0 centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate Sgt201010 cost. Cpl 20 10 10 Data are more readily available for attacks within the LCpl 20 20 10 Task Force Helmand area of operations in Helmand Pte504030 province, which includes the majority of UK forces Total 160 100 60 deployed to Afghanistan. This area of responsibility Notes: 1. Data excludes all special forces personnel. Due to ongoing validation has not stayed constant during the period in question. of the Joint Personnel Administration system, all data provided is The figures refer to an explosion that has subsequently provisional and subject to review. been reported by units operating within the Task Force 2. Numbers may include repeat tours, although each individual is Helmand area of responsibility. This includes both only recorded once in each year. Total numbers deployed will not ‘laid’ Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) and suicide equal the sum of the individual years. 3. All figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Entries marked ‘0’ are (both vehicle and person-borne) devices. These figures zero or rounded to zero. do not include IED finds with no detonation or IED false alarms. Armed Forces: Deployment
Month IED attacks Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many troops are deployed at each April 2009 21 overseas location on operations. [35893] May 2009 46 June 2009 81 Nick Harvey: The following table shows the number July 2009 107 of troops deployed on operations at overseas locations: August 2009 83 September 2009 76 Endorsed number (as at October 2009 63 Location 21 January 2011)1 November 2009 67 Afghanistan 9,500 December 2009 69 At sea 21,300 January 2010 79 Bahrain 150 February 2010 79 Cyprus 30 March 2010 71 Iraq 100 April 2010 45 Oman 450 May 2010 75 Qatar 150 June 2010 79 South Atlantic 1,500 July 2010 89 UAE 50 August 2010 76 Other 3<50 September 2010 67 1 Rounded to the nearest 50 personnel. October 2010 35 2 Numbers at sea in support of operations in the Red Sea, the Arabian November 2010 48 Gulf and the Indian Ocean. 3 December 2010 61 Small scale deployments in support of EU and UN missions, headquarters liaison officers and capacity building activities. 475W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 476W
The precise number of personnel in each theatre Vehicle Total number in service fluctuates on a daily basis for a variety of reasons, including mid-tour rest and recuperation, temporary Viking 161 absence for training, evacuation for medical reasons, Wolfhound 73 the roulement of forces, visits and a range of other Husky 236 factors. We do not, therefore, publish actual figures for personnel deployed in theatre. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Vehicles Defence how many armoured vehicles will be retired as a result of decisions taken in the Strategic Defence and Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Security Review. [36082] Defence how many military vehicles of each type were reported stolen in the UK in each year since 2009. Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence will reduce its [36085] holdings of Challenger 2, AS-90, MLRS, Warrior, CVR(T) and FV430 in light of operational priorities and revised Mr Robathan: The following table shows the number planning assumptions as laid down in the Strategic of military vehicles reported to the Ministry of Defence Defence and Security Review. Exact numbers are the Police as stolen during the years 2009 and 2010. subject of the ongoing Defence planning round and are yet to be finalised. Vehicle type Number reported stolen 2009 AWE Aldermaston Car 4 Van 1 Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Landrover 2 Defence what estimate he has made of his Department’s Roadsweeper 1 expenditure on the re-kit programmes for (a) the A45 Inflatable dinghy 1 and (b) the A90 facilities at the Atomic Weapons Establishment, Aldermaston over the lifetime of the 2010 programmes. [35884] Pick up truck 1 Bedford truck 1 Peter Luff: The estimated Ministry of Defence Landrover 7 expenditure on the re-kit programmes for the A45 and Inflatable dinghy and trailer 1 A90 facilities at the Atomic Weapons Establishment, Aldermaston over the lifetime of the programmes is in Armoured Fighting Vehicles the order of £32 million and £272 million respectively at outturn prices. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many armoured vehicles of each type in AWE Aldermaston: Fires each armed service were (a) in service and (b) available for operations on the latest date for which figures are available. [35891] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 22 November 2010, Official Peter Luff: I am withholding information on the Report, column 37W, on the Atomic Weapons numbers of vehicles available as its disclosure would, or Establishment, by what date he expects to place in the would be likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness Library the post-redaction reports from the Astral or security of the armed forces. Bend 10 nuclear weapons emergency exercise. [35817] The number of armoured vehicles of each type in service is shown in the following table: Peter Luff: Further to the answer I gave the hon. Member on 12 November 2010, Official Report, column Vehicle Total number in service 503W,work continues on the review of these documents and a copy should be placed in the Library of the AS90 166 House prior to the Easter recess. Challenger 2 345 CRARRV 81 CVR(T) 1,179 Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Fuchs 11 pursuant to the answer of 12 November 2010, Official FV430 (Mk 2 and Bulldog) 900 Report, column 503, on AWE Aldermaston: fires, by Saxon 0 what date he expects to place in the Library a copy of the Atomic Weapons Establishment emergency plan Titan 33 for dealing with incidents in the AWE Aldermaston Trojan 33 conventional explosives area. [35818] Warrior 785 Mastiff 304 Panther 412 Peter Luff: Further to the answer I gave the hon. Ridgback 155 Member on 22 November 2010, Official Report, column Snatch (all variants) 574 37W, work continues on assessing the content of the Emergency Plan. I anticipate that a copy will be placed Vector 179 in the Library of the House prior to the Easter recess. 477W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 478W
AWE Aldermaston: Radioactive Waste Defence: Procurement
Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what representations his Department has Defence what estimate he has made of the cost to the received from the Atomic Weapons Establishment public purse of procurement of (a) aircraft carriers, (AWE) on the desirability of storing radioactive waste (b) the Joint Strike Fighter, (c) the Trident replacement from decommissioned submarines at AWE sites. [35885] programme, (d) Type 45 destroyers, (e) the Future Rapid Effects System, (f) Astute Class submarines and Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has not (g) Typhoons in the next 12 months. [36086] received any representations from either AWE Management Limited or AWE plc on the desirability of storing Peter Luff: Expenditure on individual projects in the radioactive waste from ex-Royal Navy nuclear submarines coming year is still being finalised as part of the Ministry at Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE) sites. of Defence’s planning process. However, we do not Briefings have been provided to AWE plc senior routinely publish figures for anticipated annual project management on the Submarine Dismantling Project expenditure, as its disclosure would prejudice commercial (SDP), to ensure that the company is aware of SDP interests. activities that may be relevant to the sites it operates on behalf of the MOD. This is because the SDP Proposed Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Site Criteria and Screening Paper identified MOD-owned Defence pursuant to the answer of 23 November 2010, sites with existing nuclear licences as one of three Official Report, columns 221-2W,on defence: procurement, generic categories of sites that should be the subject of what assessment he has made of the compliance of each more detailed analysis. Two AWE sites fall into this project history document with his Department’s guidance generic category. set out in Maintaining a Project History, v.4.0, August The SDP Proposed Site Criteria and Screening Paper 2007. [36578] is available on the following website: www.submarinedismantling.co.uk/assets/downloads/sdp/ Peter Luff: Project histories are not subject to compliance sdp_proposed_site_criteria_screening_paper.pdf review. Departmental good practice guidance on A copy of the paper has been placed in the Library of maintaining project histories allows scope for project the House. team leaders to interpret it to best meet the needs of their project depending on its size, complexity and Challenger Tanks nature. This ensures that the main elements of the guidance are considered. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has to maintain the Challenger Departmental Public Appointments Two Main Battle Tank beyond 2020; and if he will estimate the cost to the public purse of such maintenance. [36081] Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how many (a) women and (b) men have Peter Luff: The cost of in-service support for Challenger been appointed to public duties by his Department 2 in this financial year was approximately £35 million. since May 2010; [35402] Future support costs will depend upon the number of (2) what public appointments he has made since his platforms in service, activity levels and operational usage. appointment; and to what payments each person so These factors are subject to our ongoing planning round appointed is entitled. [35424] following publication of the strategic defence and security review. The planned out of service date for Challenger 2 Mr Robathan: Information on key public appointments is 2035. made since May 2010 is published in individual press releases. These should include information on remuneration. Defence Vetting Agency Press releases are available at http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/ Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence PressCentre/PressReleases what assessment the Chief Executive of the Defence There have been 173 public appointments made to Vetting Agency has made of possible reductions in the Ministry of Defence non-departmental public bodies (a) budget and (b) staffing levels of her agency; and since May 2010. Of those appointed, 36 are women and what level of reductions are under assessment. [35823] 137 are men. 163 of the appointments are voluntary members of the Veterans Advisory and Pensions Mr Robathan: In line with other areas of the Ministry Committees, who represent the interests of war disablement of Defence (MOD), the Defence Vetting Agency (DVA) pensioners and war widow(er)s. They are unpaid and is currently examining what reductions can sensibly be receive only reasonable out of pocket expenses. The made as a result of the strategic defence and security Central Advisory Committee on Pensions and review and the spending review. The outcomes of the Compensation appointed one unpaid member. There both of these are being developed through the MOD’s were five appointments to the National Army Museum annual planning round. This is expected to conclude in Council. Council members are unpaid but receive reasonable spring 2011. The final decisions on funding for the DVA expenses. There were four appointments to the Defence will ensure that the MOD can continue to provide an Scientific Advisory Council. The chairman and council effective level of security vetting for its staff and contractors. members are paid a fee for each day worked, plus 479W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 480W reasonable travel and subsistence costs. The exact amounts Department’s budget was spent on (a) pay, (b) pensions depend on the number of days they are required to and (c) equipment in 2009-10. [36074] work each year. Departmental Public Expenditure Nick Harvey: The information available for 2009-10 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for is provided in the following table. Defence how much and what proportion of his
Pay Pensions Equipment Financial year £ billion Percentage £ billion Percentage £ billion1 Percentage
2009-10 10.2 20.4 3.0 6.0 13.2 26.3 1 The figure quoted comprises capital expenditure on equipment, equipment support and research and development costs. Source: Departmental Resource Accounts 2009-10 and UKDS 2010, Table 1.4.
In addition, payments made under the separately Peter Luff: The Strategic Defence and Security Review funded Armed Forces Pensions Scheme for 2009-10 announcement on 19 October 2010 stated that we plan were £3.5 billion. to deliver the carrier strike capability from around 2020 with the carrier variant of the Joint Strike Fighter and a Harrier Aircraft Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier fitted with catapults and arrestor gear to enhance the effectiveness of UK Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for carrier strike. Defence (1) what plans he has for GR9 Harrier aircraft In conjunction with industry and our international to be retained in reserve after their withdrawal from partners we are investigating how best to deliver this service; and if he will make a statement; [34898] outcome, including which vessel or vessels will be converted (2) what techniques exist for the maintenance in and at what point in their build schedule. No decisions long-term storage of aircraft which have been have yet been taken. Construction work is due to begin withdrawn from service; [34899] on HMS Prince of Wales in May 2011. (3) if he will make it his policy to prevent any dismantling of Harrier aircraft withdrawn from service; and if he will make a statement; [34901] Military Aircraft (4) what estimate he has made of the cost of mothballing (a) each and (b) all of the Harrier aircraft after they Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for have been withdrawn from service. [34902] Defence how many aircraft of each type were in service with the Royal Air Force on the most recent date for Peter Luff: The Harrier aircraft retired from service which figures are available. [36083] with the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force on 15 December 2010. There are no plans to retain these aircraft as a Nick Harvey: The number of aircraft in-service with reserve capability. the RAF as at 21 January 2011 is provided in the The Harrier fleet is currently in storage and is receiving following table. minimum maintenance including anti-deterioration measures to keep the aircraft in an airworthy condition Aircraft type In-service fleet (Number) for possible sale. It is too early to say what the final BAE 146 2 disposal arrangements will be and any associated storage BAE 125 6 costs will be considered as part of that process. C-17 7 Dominie1 9 Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Hawk T1 129 Defence what discussions he has had with officers of Hawk T2 17 the (a) RoyalNavyand(b) Royal Air Force on the potential of Harrier aircraft which have been mothballed Hercules CI30K 11 Hercules CI30J 24 to be utilised in the event of an emergency. [34900] King Air 4 Peter Luff: Following the Strategic Defence and Security Nimrod R1 2 Review, the Harrier aircraft retired from service on Sentinel 5 15 December 2010. There are no plans to retain these Sentry 6 aircraft as a reserve or emergency capability. The National Tornado F3 15 Security Council decision to retire the Harrier fleet was Tornado GR4 137 agreed collectively by the Service Chiefs. TriStar 9 Tucano 93 HMS Prince of Wales Typhoon 70 VC10 13 Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for Vigilant 65 Defence what plans he has for the future of HMS Viking 82 Prince of Wales. [36249] 1 Dominie was withdrawn from service on 21 January. 481W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 482W
Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Newport West of 12 November 2010, Official Report, Defence how many cannibalisations of each type of column 503W, on nuclear weapons, what (a) findings, Royal Air Force aircraft there have been in each year (b) safety improvement notices and (c) immediate since 2009. [36084] safety requirements were issued by the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator in the period 2005 to 2010. [35886] Peter Luff: Cannibalisation is where one aircraft benefits from the removal of serviceable parts from another. It is Peter Luff: No immediate safety requirements were a routine and temporary measure to ensure that the issued by the Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator (DNSR) required number of aircraft is available for front line during the period 2005 to 2010. duty. A total of four safety improvement notices have been The number of cannibalisations for 2009 and 2010 issued during this period as follows: for fixed wing aircraft is provided in the following table: Subject Aircraft 2009 2010 2005 Radiation Emergency Preparedness and Public Information Regulations (REPPIR) Submission. Harrier (all types)1 885 647 2006 Air Transport Emergency Arrangements. Tornado GR4 720 709 2010 Babcock Event No 19720: Failure to Reinstate Primary Safety Systems. Tornado F3 48 32 2010 Nuclear Propulsion Project Team, Organisation for Delivery of Nuclear Typhoon 712 1,005 Safety by the Approval Authority role. Nimrod MR22 334 67 Nimrod R1 143 103 In respect of the findings, I will write to the hon. TriStar 81 167 Member. VC-10 122 83 Nuclear Weapons: Decommissioning Hercules C130K 45 30 Hercules C130J 405 469 Sentinel R1 69 92 Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Sentry 156 307 what progress his Department has made on producing BAE 125 36 51 a decommissioning and disposal strategy for the BAE 146 9 2 defence nuclear programme; and when he expects such [35747] C17 43 58 a strategy document to be published. Dominie 12 6 Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) team Hawk T1 359 184 responsible for producing the decommissioning and Hawk T2 13 43 disposal strategy for the defence nuclear programme is Tucano 18 5 part way through the drafting process, with oversight Vigilant 14 4 from the Defence Nuclear Executive Board. This work Viking 3— 3— is being carried out in liaison with the Department of 1 Harrier was withdrawn from service on 15 December 2010 2 Nimrod MR2 was withdrawn from service on 31 March 2010 Energy and Climate Change and the Nuclear 3 Combined with Vigilant Decommissioning Authority (NDA), in recognition of Military Bases: Northern Ireland the need to align the MOD’s strategy with the NDA’s strategy for the civil nuclear sector. Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Good progress is being made and, on the basis that Defence when he expects to have made an assessment this continues, we hope to publish the document by this of the effects of the outcome of the strategic defence summer in line with the NDA’s publication of its strategy. and security review on the defence estate in Northern Reserve Forces: Recruitment Ireland. [36024] Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robathan: An impact assessment of the effects of Defence how many (a) officer and (b) non-officer the outcome of the strategic defence and security review recruits joined the (i) Territorial Army, (ii) Royal Naval will be made once decisions regarding future basing Reserve and (iii) Royal Auxiliary Air Force in each have been taken. defence region in each of the last six years. [36025] Nuclear Weapons Mr Robathan: The information is not held in the format requested. The services collect and collate this Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for information differently. The information that is available Defence pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for is presented in the following tables:
Naval Services Financial year 2003-04 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10
Scotland and Northern Ireland
Officers 362236 Ratings 25 40 26 24 28 67
North of England
Officers 184211 483W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 484W
Naval Services Financial year 2003-04 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10
Ratings 34 19 36 23 24 30
Wales and West of England Officers 16 33 5 20 9 4 Ratings 51 42 44 49 37 54
East of England Officers 18 41 7 15 15 13 Ratings 45 77 42 25 23 60
Location unknown Officers 202314 Ratings 0 4 0 b 0 0
Army Mr Willetts: A number of steps have been taken to Financial address extremism on campus over the past three years: year 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Each university has a designated police officer with whom the Territorial university management team can discuss issues relating to extremism, Army radicalisation and recruitment by terrorist organisations; Officer 46 71 29 Guidance was given to all institutions on how to manage the Other Rank 4,670 6,514 6,089 risk of violent extremism occurring and how to promote campus cohesion; Royal Air Force The National Union of Students work closely with their student Financial year Number societies to help them understand the risks associated with invitation 2004-05 258 to extreme speakers. 2005-06 244 Universities are now more aware of the risks and how 2006-07 315 to manage them but we recognise that more needs to be 2007-08 338 done. As part of the review of the Prevent strategy 2008-09 444 currently under way, we will be considering what additional 2009-10 411 activity we need to undertake with the university sector to increase their resilience to extremism and to enable Trident Submarines them to give more effective and earlier support to students who may be vulnerable to the effects of extremist activity on campus. This review, which is being led by Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence the Home Office, is expected to be completed by the what his Department’s estimate is of the cost of middle of February, with a new Prevent strategy published purchasing long-lead items required for the Vanguard before Easter 2011. submarine replacement programme assessment phase ahead of the Main Gate decision. [35746] Arts Peter Luff: The programme to replace the Vanguard Class of submarines has yet to enter the assessment Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for phase. During this phase a number of long lead items Business, Innovation and Skills when UK Trade and will be ordered so they will be available to use, as Investment plans to announce its strategy for the needed, after the main gate decision point planned for creative industries sector. [36362] 2016. Not to do so would lengthen construction time and potentially impact the plan to deliver the first boat in around 2028. Final decisions on exactly what long Mr Prisk: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) is planning lead items will be required and when, will not be taken to launch its new four year strategy towards the end of until after initial gate. this financial year. UKTI will continue to support the creative industries and a business programme will be The value of long lead items will be dependent on the made available soon in the new financial year. work programme to be approved at initial gate. Asbestos: Canada
BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Simon Danczuk: To ask the Secretary of State for Academic Freedom Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has discussed with Ministers in the government of (a) Canada and Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, (b) Quebec the investment of each in the mining of Innovation and Skills what steps his Department is asbestos for export to developing countries. [35607] taking to address extremism on university campuses. [36666] Mr Prisk: No. 485W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 486W
Banks: Northern Ireland the research councils will also work with the Technology Strategy Board to help deliver technology and innovation Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for centres. Business, Innovation and Skills what meetings he has It should also be noted that the Technology Strategy had with representatives of the banking sector in Board will be the subject of a formal five-yearly review Northern Ireland in the last 12 months. [36027] in 2012 which will assess its performance among other issues. Mr Davey: The Secretary of State has held no meetings Devolved Administrations with representatives of the banking sector in Northern Ireland in the last 12 months. Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has Business: Higher Education had with the devolved administrations on activities to promote competitiveness. [36681]
Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what actions the State has visited Scotland and held discussions on a Technology Strategy Board undertook in each of the wide range of issues facing the UK economy. He intends last five years to improve the relationship between to visit Wales and Northern Ireland in the near future business and higher education institutions; and if he to hold similar discussions. My right hon. Friend the will make a statement; [36634] Secretary of State remains committed to dialogue with (2) what his assessment is of the effectiveness of the the devolved administrations to ensure that the whole Technology Strategy Board’s work to improve the of the UK remains a competitive place to do business. relationship between business and higher education institutions; and if he will make a statement. [36635] Export: Burma
Mr Willetts: The Technology Strategy Board supports Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for technology innovation by UK businesses in those areas Business, Innovation and Skills what the monetary which offer the greatest scope for boosting UK growth value of exports to Burma was in each of the last three and productivity on the basis of business and academic years; and what were the main products so exported. strength. To deliver this goal it works with partners [36470] across Government including, importantly, the research councils, as this ensures that investments in research are Mr Prisk: Recorded UK exports of goods to Burma more closely informed by business, and that businesses were worth just under £4 million in each of 2007, 2008 will more readily adopt innovations that stem from and 2009. The main exports were beverages and medicinal excellent research. products in all three years, and power generating equipment Since its establishment in July 2007, the partnership in 2007. with the research councils has become stronger and The Office for National Statistics estimated UK exports more diverse, evolving from traditional areas (e.g. aerospace) of services to Burma were worth £4 million in each of to addressing key challenges (e.g. sustainable agriculture 2008 and 2009; consistent estimates for 2007 are not and food and stratified medicine) and growing sectors available. of the economy that are important to the UK (e.g. The Government discourage trade and investment creative industries). with Burma and UK Trade and Investment offers no The scale of research council activity aligned with the commercial services to companies wishing to trade or Technology Strategy Board (announced and projected) invest there. EU sanctions are in place against Burma. now totals £189 million, and has exceeded the original target of £120 million over the current Spending Review Exports: China period. Furthermore, over two thirds of the 900 current collaborative R and D projects, which account for a Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for majority of the Technology Strategy Board’s direct Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department funding, have at least one university partner collaborating is taking to reduce administrative burdens on the issuing with business, and its knowledge transfer networks and of export licences for small and medium-sized businesses knowledge transfer partnerships, enable business and wishing to trade with China. [36584] academia to collaborate to improve competitiveness and productivity through better use of knowledge, Mr Prisk: All export licence applications, including technology and skills. Networks bring together key those for export to China, are considered on a case by individuals with a shared interest in areas aligned with case basis against the Consolidated EU and National Technology Strategy Board priorities, and partnerships Arms Export Licensing Criteria and the associated EU allow the placement of skilled individuals into business Code of Conduct. injecting vital know-how to enable the strategic development We have taken steps in recent years to reduce of the business. administrative burdens on the issuing of export licences Moving forward, the research councils and the in general. In September 2007 we moved to a fully Technology Strategy Board have identified a number of electronic web based processing system, known as SPIRE. strategic priority areas within the broad themes of This replaced the previous system of paper licences and high-value manufacturing; health care; digital; low carbon; provides a complete end-to-end e-business service. This energy and resource efficiency, for collaboration, and change benefited all exporters. 487W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 488W
The Government publishes licence processing target Financial years Number times. For standard individual export licences, the target is to process 70% of these within 20 working days; 2010 to 30 September 53,679 although if extra information is requested and not Total 379,004 supplied, this will inevitably delay resolution of the case. Additionally, sensitive destinations, such as China The Debt Advice in Prisons project run by the Legal which is subject to an EU arms embargo, sometimes Service Commission is also funded from FIF, but this take longer to process due to the need to apply greater Department does not have total figures for the number scrutiny. Furthermore, the Government’s performance of clients advised under that project. against these targets for each destination country is published in the Annual and Quarterly Reports on Further Education: Ashfield Strategic Export Controls.
Financial Inclusion Fund Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many young people resident in Ashfield constituency participated in Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for further education (a) in the academic year 2009-10 and Business, Innovation and Skills how many debt (b) in each of the three years prior to the introduction advisers have been funded through the Financial of the education maintenance allowance. [31077] Inclusion Fund in (a) England, (b) the West Midlands and (c) each borough in the West Midlands in each of Mr Gibb: I have been asked to reply. the last five years. [36841] Estimates of participation in education and training Mr Davey: There are around 500 debt advisers funded for young people in each local authority (LA) in England via the Financial Inclusion Fund’s Face-to-Face (F2F) are published by the Department in a Statistical First Debt Advice project, of which around 60 F2F debt Release (SFR) each June. The full SFR can be found on advisers were employed in the West Midlands area. The the Department’s website: funds which we provided aimed to maintain this level of http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000938/ advice support over the five years. index.shtml The number of debt advisers covering the West Midlands Figures are not available at parliamentary constituency by area is as follows: level, so LA figures for Nottinghamshire are provided in this response. The latest figures relate to the end of Area Number 2008, part way through the 2008/09 academic year.
Birmingham 11 The latest figures show that in Nottinghamshire LA Coventry 4 an estimated 8,800 young people of academic age 16 Dudley 3 (usually those in their first year after compulsory education) Herefordshire 1 were in some form of education or work based learning (WBL) at the end of 2008. This represented 86% of the Sandwell 5 resident population. Shropshire 1.5 Solihull 1 Education maintenance allowance (EMA) was Staffordshire 6.5 introduced nationally from September 2004. The following Stoke-on-Trent 6 time-series shows the number and proportion of 16-year- Telford 2 olds in education or WBL in Nottinghamshire for the three years prior to its introduction, and for every year Walsall 4 subsequently for which data are available: Warwickshire 4 Wolverhampton 6.5 Participation in education and work based learning (WBL) of academic age 16 years1 Worcestershire 7 Nottinghamshire England Total 62.5 End of year: Number Percentage Number Percentage
Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001 7,700 82 523,500 83 Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has 2002 8,100 85 527,500 84 made of the number of people who have received debt 2003 8,200 82 539,700 83 advice funded through the Financial Inclusion Fund in 2004 8,300 81 562,300 85 each of the last five years. [36934] 2005 8,200 83 563,500 86 2006 8,400 82 579,800 87 Mr Davey: In each of the last five years, the number 2007 8,700 84 590,900 88 of individuals receiving debt advice from the Face-to-Face 2008 8,800 86 602,900 91 Debt Advice project funded via the Financial Inclusion 1 Numbers rounded to the nearest 100, and proportions to the nearest Fund (FIF) is as follows. percentage point. We are committed to making sure that young people Financial years Number from low income households can continue in education 2006/07 26,567 and training post-16. We are considering the replacement 2007/08 92,635 for the education maintenance allowance and want to 2008/09 100,968 ensure that the funds we have are targeted on those 2009/10 105,155 young people who most need support to enable them to participate in learning. 489W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 490W
Higher Education: Finance Mr Prisk: Local enterprise partnerships are locally driven. A proposal which covered the Bournemouth Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Poole and Dorset was received in response to the joint Innovation and Skills whether funding for higher education letter from the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation institutions in London to take account of additional and Skills and the Secretary of State for Communities costs in London will be additional to teaching funding and Local Government, dated 29 June. This proposal in the Comprehensive Spending Review period. [36646] did not meet all the Government’s expectations as set out in the Local Growth White Paper. Officials have Mr Willetts: We will set out our priorities for the been working with partners in the area as they develop remaining teaching grant in the forthcoming Higher a revised proposal. Education White Paper. This will include consideration of the additional costs for certain groups of institutions, London Post Office Railway subjects and students. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Higher Education: Sanctions Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the merits of selling the London Post Office Railway Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for separate to other changes to the ownership structure of Business, Innovation and Skills what sanctions will be Royal Mail Holdings plc proposed in the Postal imposed on higher education institutions which do not Services Bill. [36886] comply with an access agreement made with the Officer of Fair Access to Higher Education. [36464] Mr Davey: No decision has been take on the form or method of sale of Royal Mail. We are taking a staged Mr Willetts: The Director of Fair Access has a range approach—our first priority is passing the Postal Services of sanctions available to use against any institution that Bill to allow the framework for action. The Government is not meeting the terms of its access agreement. will then bring into force the new regulatory regime and The major sanction available is not to approve or take decisions on private sector investment. renew an access agreement. This would remove the Our decision will depend on market conditions, getting institution’s right to charge its students above the basic best value for the taxpayer and securing a sustainable level. The Director of Fair Access may also impose a future for Royal Mail. fine (via the Higher Education Funding Council for England) of up to £500,000, or require restitution if Microfinance students have been disadvantaged or commitments have not been honoured. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for On 7 December I published draft guidance to the Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of his Director of Fair Access setting out my expectations and Department’s project budget has been spent on suggestions as to how the Director might approach the microfinance projects in the last three years for which approval and monitoring of institutions’ access agreements. figures are available. [36236] Final guidance will be published shortly. The basic and higher levels of graduate contribution Mr Prisk: Direct funding for community development are changing from 1 September 2012. Much more public finance institutions CDFIs (who often provide funding will be reaching universities via students, supported microfinance) has been provided by regional development by up-front loans from the public purse. These changes agencies. RDAs report around £11 million per year was are significant, and we want to monitor their effects provided to CDFIs over the last three years. A large carefully. The draft guidance to the Director of Fair proportion on this will have supported microfinance Access therefore asks him to review access agreements activity. Microfinance and larger loans are also supported annually, rather than every five years as at present. by the Enterprise Finance Guarantee (and previously We will be publishing a White Paper on higher education Small Firms Loan Guarantee). However, no information reforms during the early part of this year. As part of is available about the breakdown between microfinance that we will consider if changes are needed to strengthen and larger loans for these schemes. For this reason I the role of the Director of Fair Access further. cannot provide information on the proportion of the Department’s budget which supports microfinance. Livingston and Riccarton Government also support microfinance through the Community Investment Tax Relief Scheme which Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for encourages investment enterprises in disadvantaged Business, Innovation and Skills if he will meet (a) communities and groups through CDFIs. management and (b) employees of Aptuit to discuss Office for Fair Access: Manpower that company’s proposal to close its sites at Livingston and Riccarton. [36674] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: This is a matter for the Scottish Executive. Business, Innovation and Skills how many staff he expects to be employed by the Office of Fair Access in Local Enterprise Partnerships: Bournemouth each of the next three years; and if he will make a statement. [36638] Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for Mr Willetts: We will be publishing a White Paper on local enterprise partnerships in the Bournemouth area; higher education reforms during the early part of this and if he will make a statement. [36418] year. As part of that we will consider if changes are 491W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 492W needed in respect of the Office of Fair Access. We are Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for working with its director to determine what level of Business, Innovation and Skills what the total value is resource will be required, including staffing, in future of the bids received for the first round of the regional years. growth fund. [36619]
Postal Services: Livingston Mr Prisk: The fund has received over 450 bids with a value worth over £2 billion; the information contained on each bid is currently being processed, after which we Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for will have the final figure. This information will be Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the available during the week commencing 31 January 2011 potential effects on the universal service obligation in and placed on the BIS website. Livingston constituency of implementation of his proposals to privatise Royal Mail. [36879] Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many bids his Department Mr Davey: The Government’s policy, as set out in the has received for the first round of the regional growth Postal Services Bill, is that the minimum requirements fund in each Government office region. [36620] for the universal postal service must include at least one delivery of letters to addresses or other identified points Mr Prisk: The fund has received over 450 bids; the every Monday to Saturday. information contained on each bid is currently being Our overarching objective is to secure the future of processed. The requested information will be available the universal postal service and the Bill ensures that this during the week commencing 31 January 2011 and will be Ofcom’s primary duty in respect of mail. The placed on the BIS website. nature of the ownership of the universal service provider will not change this. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether unsuccessful Postal Services: Standards bids for the first round of the regional growth fund will be considered for inclusion in future rounds. [36621] Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make representations to Mr Prisk: Unsuccessful applicants will be given feedback the Royal Mail on recent delays to the delivery of letters on their bids, they will not automatically be considered and parcels; and if he will estimate the number of letters for future rounds, but they will be able to re-submit and parcels held in postal delivery sorting offices for their bid in future rounds. (a) longer than one month and (b) longer than three months in the latest period for which figures are available. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for [36772] Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of bids received for the first round of the regional growth Mr Davey: Mail delivery is an operational matter for fund were submitted by local enterprise partnerships the Royal Mail. I have therefore asked the chief executive solely. [36622] of Royal Mail, Moya Greene, to respond directly to the hon. Member and a copy of her reply will be placed in Mr Prisk: The fund has received over 450 bids; the the House Libraries. information contained on each bid is currently being processed. The requested information will be available during the week commencing 31 January 2011 and Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for placed on the BIS website. Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the Royal Mail postal delivery backlogs affecting (a) Regulatory Regime for Debt Recovery Companies domestic and (b) international post and their effects on small businesses. [36773] Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether his Department Mr Davey: Mail delivery is an operational matter for plans to review the regulatory regime for debt recovery the Royal Mail. I have therefore asked the chief executive companies. [36484] of Royal Mail, Moya Greene, to respond directly to the honourable Member and a copy of her reply will be Mr Davey: The last Government consulted on this placed in the Libraries of the House. issue in 2009, and found that there were mixed views. There was a strong feeling that regulation of debt Regional Growth Fund recovery companies should be looked at in the context of the personal insolvency regime as a whole. Our call Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, for evidence “Managing Borrowing and Dealing with Innovation and Skills whether his Department plans to Debt” (published October 2010) invited comments on publish a shortlist of regional growth fund projects for the personal insolvency framework, including debt consideration by the Independent Advisory Panel for management aspects. We have received a large number each Government office region. [36618] of responses which are currently being analysed and will be published in due course. Mr Prisk: All bids will go before the independent All who provide debt management services are required Advisory Panel, there are no plans to publish a list of to be licensed under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. projects; however, the Department will publish data on Last year the Office of Fair Trading reviewed compliance the breakdown of bids to the Fund. with its Debt Management Guidance and published a 493W Written Answers27 JANUARY 2011 Written Answers 494W report on 28 September 2010. Subsequently they issued UN Special Representative on Business: Human Rights warnings to 129 debt management firms about non- compliant business practices. Of the 129 firms, 35 have Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, indicated that they will surrender their licences, 79 have Innovation and Skills what recent meetings (a) he, (b) produced audited evidence confirming action taken to Ministers and (c) officials in his Department have had address areas of non-compliance and the OFT have with the UN Special Representative on business and initiated revocation action against a number of traders. human rights. [36545]
Mr Davey: I met Professor John Ruggie, UN Special Students: Debts Representative on Business and Human Rights, on 10 January 2011 together with officials from within the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Department. There have been no separate meetings Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has between Professor John Ruggie and other BIS Ministers. had with the Council of Mortgage Lenders about the Unfair Dismissal effects of student debt on likely levels of mortgage lending to graduates; and if he will make a statement. Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for [36636] Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has for the future length of a period of continuous employment Mr Willetts: The Council for Mortgage Lenders have which qualifies entitlement to unfair dismissal rights. advised that a student loan is very unlikely to materially [36631] impact on an individual’s ability to get a mortgage. However the reduction in net income may result in a Mr Davey: We are looking at a number of ways of commensurate reduction in the amount a mortgage helping businesses and protecting employees as part of lender is willing to lend. our ongoing employment law review. As part of that Our proposal to increase the repayment threshold review, the Government are considering changes to the from £15,000 to £21,000 will reduce the amount borrowers length of a period of continuous employment which need to repay each month, and therefore increase the qualifies entitlement to unfair dismissal. We will make amount of net income available to them which could be any announcements following on from that review in helpful to them when applying for a mortgage. due course. 3MC Ministerial Corrections27 JANUARY 2011 Ministerial Corrections 4MC
Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Since Bolsover Ministerial Corrections district council has managed to hold its council tax steady for a few years, and since none of its executives Thursday 27 January 2011 get the kind of sums that have been referred to, will the Minister repay the compliment by allowing it to deal with the 108 prefabricated buildings that have been there since the end of the second world war? The BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS council needs to replace them and pensioners need new accommodation, so will he get the show on the road? News International [Official Report, 17 January 2011, Vol. 521, c. 531.] Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Letter of correction from Mr Grant Shapps: Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer An error has been identified in the oral response of 14 October 2010, Official Report, column 367W, given to the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) on on News International, whether (a) he and (b) the 17 January 2011. The answer referred to an incorrect Minister for Culture, Communications and Creative funding programme. Industries discussed with (i) James Murdoch and The full answer given was as follows: (ii) Rebekah Brooks (A) the Metropolitan Police’s investigation on telephone hacking and blagging and Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman knows, because (B) News Corporation’s bid for BSkyB; and if he will he has raised this issue with me before in the House, make a statement. [21844] that the decent homes programme continues, and last [Official Report, 16 November 2010, Vol. 518, c. 747W.] week’s settlement, on top of the spending review, Letter of correction from Mr Edward Vaizey: makes it very clear that £2.2 billion is available for An error has been identified in the written answer decent homes—which, I understand, subsequent to our given to the hon. Member for West Bromwich East previous exchange in the House, his council is in line (Mr Watson) on 16 November 2010. The short introductory for. telephone conversation with Mr James Murdoch took The correct answer should have been: place on 15 June, not 15 July as stated in the reply. The full answer given was as follows: Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman knows, because he has raised this issue with me before in the House, Mr Vaizey [holding answer 4 November 2010]: The that the affordable housing programme continues, and Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills that £4.5 billion is available for new affordable housing had a short introductory telephone conversation with provision—from which, I understand, subsequent to James Murdoch on 15 July during which the News our previous exchange in the House, his council is in Corporation bid for BSkyB was raised. They did not line for funding. discuss the Metropolitan police’s investigation on Anti-Semitism telephone hacking. In my role as a joint BIS/DCMS Minister, I met The following is an extract from the closing speech by Rebekah Brooks on 12 July. During this meeting neither the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local News Corporation’s bid for BSkyB, nor the Metropolitan Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew police’s investigation on telephone hacking were discussed. Stunell), in the Adjournment Debate on Anti-Semitism The correct answer should have been: secured by the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) on 20 January 2011. Mr Vaizey [holding answer 4 November 2010]: The Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills Andrew Stunell: …I know from my previous visits to had a short introductory telephone conversation with the area that the security required there is a shock to all James Murdoch on 15 June during which the News non-Jewish visitors, who expect a primary school to be Corporation bid for BSkyB was raised. They did not a primary school, perhaps not with open access, but discuss the Metropolitan police’s investigation on certainly with friendly, welcoming access rather than telephone hacking. high fences and armed guards. In my role as a joint BIS/DCMS Minister, I met [Official Report, 20 January 2011, Vol. 521, c. 365WH.] Rebekah Brooks on 12 July. During this meeting neither Letter of correction from Mr Andrew Stunell: News Corporation’s bid for BSkyB, nor the Metropolitan An error has been identified in my closing speech in police’s investigation on telephone hacking were discussed. the Adjournment Debate on Anti-Semitism on 20 January 2011. The revision is required to avoid the impression that there are armed guards at Jewish Faith Schools. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT The correct answer should have been: Council Tax The following is an extract of the exchange between the Andrew Stunell: …I know from my previous visits to Minister for Housing and Local Government, the right the area that the security required there is a shock to all hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) and non-Jewish visitors, who expect a primary school to be the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) during a primary school, perhaps not with open access, but Communities and Local Government Question Time on certainly with friendly, welcoming access rather than 17 January 2011. high fences and armed by guards.
ORAL ANSWERS
Thursday 27 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 423 TRANSPORT—continued Bus Services ...... 433 Uninsured Drivers ...... 430 Coastguard Services...... 432 Congestion Charging (West London)...... 428 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 438 HGV Drivers (Diabetes) ...... 431 Body Image (Media Representation)...... 442 Low-emission Vehicles ...... 423 Civil Partnership Ceremonies...... 441 Rail Franchising...... 428 Corporate Boards (Women)...... 440 Rail Industry (Reform) ...... 424 Custodial Sentences (Mothers) ...... 444 Road Schemes (East Yorkshire) ...... 427 Employment Law (Gender Discrimination) ...... 443 Roadside Inspection...... 434 Flexible Working...... 438 Topical Questions ...... 435 State Pension Age ...... 443 Traffic Lights ...... 426 Trafficking (Women and Girls) ...... 439 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
Thursday 27 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 15WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 21WS Workplace Disputes Reforms...... 15WS Forensic Science Research and Development ...... 21WS Justice and Home Affairs Council...... 22WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 16WS JUSTICE...... 24WS Public Forest Estate ...... 16WS Data Protection Legislative Framework...... 24WS
FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 18WS TREASURY ...... 15WS General Affairs Council/Foreign Affairs Council... 18WS ECOFIN...... 15WS WRITTEN ANSWERS
Thursday 27 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 398W CABINET OFFICE...... 447W Departmental Procurement...... 398W 10 Downing Street: Operating Costs ...... 447W Census: Vetting ...... 447W Charitable Donations...... 448W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 483W Departmental Conferences...... 448W Academic Freedom ...... 483W Former Prime Ministers: Allowances ...... 449W Arts...... 484W Government Departments: Flexible Working...... 449W Asbestos: Canada ...... 484W Government Departments: Security...... 449W Banks: Northern Ireland...... 485W NDPBs: Finance...... 450W Business: Higher Education ...... 485W Non-departmental Public Bodies ...... 450W Devolved Administrations ...... 486W Public Bodies: Consultants ...... 450W Export: Burma...... 486W Public Bodies: Lobbying ...... 451W Exports: China...... 486W Public Sector: Sick Leave ...... 451W Financial Inclusion Fund...... 487W Race Online 2012 ...... 452W Further Education: Ashfield ...... 488W Suicide: Hartlepool ...... 452W Higher Education: Finance ...... 489W Voluntary Work ...... 453W Higher Education: Sanctions ...... 489W Voluntary Work: Young People...... 454W Livingston and Riccarton ...... 489W Weather...... 454W Local Enterprise Partnerships: Bournemouth ...... 489W London Post Office Railway ...... 490W Microfinance...... 490W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 425W Office for Fair Access: Manpower...... 490W Departmental Pay ...... 425W Postal Services: Livingston...... 491W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 425W Postal Services: Standards...... 491W Departmental Recruitment ...... 426W Regional Growth Fund ...... 491W Departmental Redundancy Pay ...... 426W Regulatory Regime for Debt Recovery Housing: Standards ...... 426W Companies...... 492W Landlord and Tenant ...... 427W Students: Debts...... 493W Social Rented Housing: Waiting Lists ...... 427W UN Special Representative on Business: Human Rights ...... 494W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 442W Unfair Dismissal ...... 494W Honours...... 442W Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued HEALTH...... 454W News Corporation ...... 442W Arthritis ...... 454W Tourism...... 442W Blood: Contamination ...... 454W Cancer: Drugs...... 455W DEFENCE...... 473W Cancer: Health Services ...... 456W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 473W Cannabis: Misuse...... 456W Armed Forces: Deployment ...... 474W Carers: Public Expenditure ...... 455W Armed Forces: Vehicles...... 475W Children: Death ...... 457W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 475W Departmental Contracts ...... 458W AWE Aldermaston...... 476W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 459W AWE Aldermaston: Fires...... 476W General Practitioners: North Yorkshire ...... 459W AWE Aldermaston: Radioactive Waste...... 477W Health and Social Care Bill...... 460W Challenger Tanks ...... 477W Health Visitors...... 460W Defence: Procurement...... 478W Heroin...... 461W Defence Vetting Agency...... 477W HIV Infection ...... 461W Departmental Public Appointments...... 478W HIV Infection: Brighton ...... 462W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 479W Hospitals: Food ...... 462W Harrier Aircraft ...... 479W In Vitro Fertilisation ...... 463W HMS Prince of Wales ...... 479W Infant Mortality...... 463W Military Aircraft ...... 480W Low Birthweight Babies ...... 464W Military Bases: Northern Ireland...... 481W Mental Health...... 464W Nuclear Weapons...... 481W Mental Health: Armed Forces ...... 466W Nuclear Weapons: Decommissioning...... 482W Mental Health Services: Nurses ...... 465W Reserve Forces: Recruitment...... 482W Mental Health Services: Prisons...... 465W Trident Submarines...... 483W NHS: Drugs...... 467W NHS: Fertility...... 468W EDUCATION...... 410W NHS: Training ...... 468W Children’s Workforce Development Council ...... 410W North East Offender Health Commissioning Unit. 468W Departmental Redundancy ...... 411W Prescriptions: Fees and Charges...... 468W Discretionary Learner Support Fund: Poplar ...... 411W Primary Care Trusts: Debts...... 469W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 411W Sexually Transmitted Diseases ...... 470W IGCSE ...... 412W Smoking: Health Services ...... 470W Personal, Social, Health and Economic Social Services...... 470W Education ...... 412W Strokes ...... 471W Schools: Absenteeism...... 413W Suicide ...... 472W Schools: Sports ...... 414W Sunbeds ...... 472W Tobacco: Retail Trade ...... 473W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 435W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 435W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 428W Departmental Public Appointments...... 435W Animal Experiments ...... 428W Electricity Generation: Wind Power...... 436W Asylum: Children...... 428W Energy: Prices ...... 437W Asylum: Housing ...... 428W Fuel Oil...... 437W Border Agency: Manpower...... 429W Liquefied Petroleum Gas ...... 438W Border Security Agents: Paris ...... 430W Radioactive Waste...... 438W Criminal Records: Vetting...... 430W Warm Front Scheme: Finance...... 439W Departmental Redundancy ...... 430W Weather...... 439W DNA: Databases...... 430W Entry Clearances: Carers ...... 430W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Football: Poland and Ukraine...... 431W AFFAIRS...... 414W Forensic Science Service: Criminal Investigation.... 431W Departmental Communication ...... 414W Human Trafficking ...... 432W Fishing Catches: North Sea...... 414W Illegal Immigrants...... 432W Fishing Catches: South East ...... 418W Immigration...... 433W Forests: Crown Lands and Estates ...... 418W Immigration Control...... 433W Natural Gas: Drinking Water...... 419W Migration Impacts Fund: Scotland...... 433W Rats...... 419W UK Border Agency: Correspondence...... 434W Recycling ...... 419W Young Offenders: Arrests...... 434W Retail Trade: Packaging ...... 419W Rodents: North East ...... 420W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 395W Bangladesh: Poverty...... 395W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 399W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 395W Canada: Animal Cruelty...... 399W Departmental Procurement...... 396W Departmental Communication ...... 399W Developing Countries: Females...... 396W Departmental Official Cars...... 400W Developing Countries: Microfinance ...... 396W Departmental Public Appointments...... 400W Equality: Females ...... 397W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 400W Overseas Aid: Fraud ...... 397W Departmental Wines ...... 400W Overseas Aid: Gift Aid...... 398W Diplomatic Service: Recruitment ...... 401W Senior Civil Servants...... 401W JUSTICE...... 403W Sri Lanka: Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Courts: Closures ...... 403W Commission...... 401W Courts: Translation Services...... 403W Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE—continued TREASURY—continued Drug Testing Treatment Orders ...... 403W Banks: Northern Ireland...... 443W Enforcement: Fees and Charges ...... 404W Child Benefit...... 443W Members: Correspondence ...... 404W Departmental Procurement...... 444W Offenders ...... 404W Enterprise Investment Scheme ...... 444W Prison Accommodation ...... 405W Equality Impact Assessments...... 444W Prison Accommodation: Television...... 405W Institute for Fiscal Studies ...... 445W Prisoners ...... 405W Public Expenditure...... 445W Prisons: Drugs ...... 408W Stewardship of the Manor of Northstead...... 445W Prisons: Visits...... 409W VAT: Third Sector...... 445W Tribunals: Colchester ...... 410W WALES...... 442W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 399W Referendum ...... 442W Departmental Procurement...... 399W
SCOTLAND...... 446W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 402W Blood: Contamination ...... 446W Departmental Public Appointments...... 402W Devolution: Consultants ...... 446W Small Businesses: Pay...... 402W Students: Visas...... 446W UN Commission on the Status of Women ...... 402W Taxation...... 447W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 420W TRANSPORT ...... 439W Child Maintenance and Enforcement Coastguard Services...... 439W Commission: Correspondence ...... 420W Crossrail Line...... 440W Child Support Agency ...... 420W Driving Standards Agency: Cardiff...... 441W Disability Living Allowance: Mental Illness...... 421W Large Goods Vehicles: EU Action ...... 441W Housing Benefit ...... 421W Motoring Costs: Rural Areas...... 440W Housing Benefit: East Lothian...... 422W Rail Franchising...... 440W Mortgage Interest Scheme ...... 422W Railways: North West ...... 441W Personal Income: East Lothian...... 422W Snow and Ice: West Midlands ...... 441W Pregnant Women: Grants...... 423W Speed Cameras...... 440W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 423W Social Security Benefits: Teenage Pregnancy...... 424W TREASURY ...... 443W State Retirement Pensions: Uprating...... 424W Aggregates Levy ...... 443W Universal Credit...... 425W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS
Thursday 27 January 2011
Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 3MC COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— News International ...... 3MC continued Council Tax ...... 3MC COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 3MC Anti-Semitism...... 4MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,
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CONTENTS
Thursday 27 January 2011
Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 423] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Transport Minister for Women and Equality
Business of the House [Col. 447] Statement—(Sir George Young)
Scotland Bill [Col. 467] Motion for Second Reading—(Michael Moore) Amendment—(Pete Wishart)—on a Division, negatived Motion agreed to Read a Second time
Western Sahara [Col. 559] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Westminster Hall Decent Homes [Col. 147WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 15WS]
Written Answers to Questions [Col. 395W] [see index inside back page]
Ministerial Corrections [Col. 3MC]