Tird Session, 41st Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday, October 22, 2018 Morning Sitting Issue No. 163

THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Third Session, 41st Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training...... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General...... Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Jinny Sims Minister of Education ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Afairs and Housing...... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture...... Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Claire Trevena

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Tird Party ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker...... Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Linda Reid Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...... Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Penticton Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford South ...... Hon. Darryl Plecas Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Abbotsford West ...... Michael de Jong, QC Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Begg, Garry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Guildford Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Anne Kang Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Burnaby North...... Janet Routledge Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey South Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Donna Barnett Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North ...... Coralee Oakes Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Chilliwack...... John Martin Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack-Kent...... Laurie Troness Chow, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Doug Clovechok Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Joan Isaacs Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Langley East Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Hon. Selina Robinson Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Courtenay-Comox ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Delta North ...... Ravi Kahlon de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta South...... Ian Paton Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Esquimalt-Metchosin...... Mitzi Dean D’Eith, Bob (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–North Tompson...... Peter Milobar Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kamloops–South Tompson ...... Todd Stone Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Kelowna–Lake Country...... Norm Letnick Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission...... Steve Tomson Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kelowna West...... Ben Stewart Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kootenay East ...... Tom Shypitka Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kootenay West ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Langford–Juan de Fuca...... Hon. John Horgan Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Langley...... Mary Polak Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Langley East ...... Rich Coleman Glumac, Rick (NDP)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Bob D’Eith Heyman, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Hon. Lisa Beare Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca Mid Island–Pacifc Rim ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Nanaimo ...... Leonard Eugene Krog Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Nechako Lakes ...... John Rustad Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Queensborough Nelson-Creston...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)...... Delta North New Westminster ...... Hon. Judy Darcy Kang, Anne (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ...... Nanaimo North Island ...... Hon. Claire Trevena Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Bowinn Ma Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Tornthwaite Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ...... Courtenay-Comox Parksville-Qualicum ...... Michelle Stilwell Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River North...... Dan Davies Ma, Bowinn (NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Peace River South...... Mike Bernier Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Penticton...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Tompson Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Rick Glumac Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Nicholas Simons Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Mike Morris Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount...... Shirley Bond Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond North Centre ...... Teresa Wat Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)...... Delta South Richmond-Queensborough ...... Jas Johal Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.)...... Abbotsford South Richmond South Centre...... Linda Reid Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston...... John Yap Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands...... Adam Olsen Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South...... Hon. Lana Popham Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond South Centre Skeena ...... Ellis Ross Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Stikine ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale...... Marvin Hunt Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)...... Skeena Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Jagrup Brar Routledge, Janet (NDP)...... Burnaby North Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Rachna Singh Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Guildford ...... Garry Begg Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Surrey-Panorama...... Hon. Jinny Sims Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey South...... Stephanie Cadieux Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Sims, Hon. Jinny (NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Surrey–White Rock...... Tracy Redies Singh, Rachna (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Fairview ...... Hon. George Heyman Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–False Creek...... Sam Sullivan Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. George Chow Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver-Hastings ...... Hon. Shane Simpson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kingsway ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Langara ...... Michael Lee Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Hon. Melanie Mark Tomson, Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Point Grey...... Hon. David Eby, QC Tornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Troness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Hon. Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Ralph Sultan Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Jordan Sturdy

Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS

Monday, October 22, 2018 Morning Sitting Page

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements...... 5731 Te benefts of modular housing M. Dean T. Stone Economic recovery plan for communities afected by wildfres and foods C. Oakes J. Rice Investing in cycling, walking and multi-user infrastructure D. Routley S. Gibson A legitimate pathway to electoral reform S. Sullivan N. Simons

Private Members’ Motions ...... 5739 Motion 28 — Electoral system J. Routledge M. Morris J. Brar P. Milobar B. Ma T. Shypitka R. Leonard D. Barnett S. Furstenau M. Lee B. D’Eith

5731

MONDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2018 might not have been the same as in downtown cores, of a vis- ible street population, the housing issue in West Shore res- Te House met at 10:04 a.m. ults in people living in the woods and of the trails. Families in West Shore are experiencing housing instabil- [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] ity, insecurity and poor conditions. Tere are so many ex- amples of overcrowding, couch-surfng, renovictions. Many Routine Business families are living paycheque to paycheque and are living precariously on the edge of having to reach out to a friend or Prayers. a family member for basic shelter. Tis is especially true for [10:05 a.m.] single women, who are especially vulnerable to their precari- ous situation being exploited. Orders of the Day In my community, I hear from bylaw ofcers that they encounter the homeless population, the marginalized, living Private Members’ Statements on the edges of the community. Tey’re camping away from the main drag, yet they come to the attention of these THE BENEFITS OF MODULAR HOUSING ofcers, who have to help them to fnd resources and appro- priate shelter. Because the issue of homelessness has been M. Dean: Today it’s my honour to talk about the benefts concentrated in downtown, resources to address this crisis of modular housing. Te most critical issue in my constitu- have been concentrated in that urban area. ency of Esquimalt-Metchosin is the housing crisis. Te hous- [10:10 a.m.] ing crisis was created by years and years of neglect, and However, we need more development of afordable hous- it’s going to take years of sustained action to bring housing ing and shelters on the West Shore. I want to say thank you to afordability back. all of the agencies and services who are doing what they can Our government is moving quickly to provide housing already in our community. For example, there are no shelters and support services for people who have been living in for youth, who might be thrown out of home by a struggling unsafe conditions on the streets for far too long. Te com- family or are unable to make the rent and are evicted by their munity response across the province to our new program landlords. I know from a youth advocate in our community has been remarkable. In less than a year, we reached our that we have a crisis in youth homelessness. She tells me of goal of confrming 2,000 modular homes throughout the the local areas, among the big-box stores, where groups of province, and 22 municipalities have partnered with us to homeless young people spend the night together. help people who are experiencing homelessness. At last, we are able to see a shif in support for the home- less. Our government has a comprehensive 30-point plan [L. Reid in the chair.] that will tackle the housing crisis. We will increase capacity, repair aging infrastructure, respond to immediate homeless- Still, housing is not available or afordable for many res- ness, enhance capacity for families as well as individuals and idents of Esquimalt-Metchosin. Greater Victoria is said to support youth who are homeless. have one of the least afordable housing markets in Canada. Of course, this is a complex matter, and it requires a com- Rents have been increasing considerably in recent years, and prehensive and bold plan. One aspect of this plan is to incomes, to meet these increasing costs of housing, have not provide modular housing. Tis can be done quickly, and the kept pace. modular units provided ofer privacy, storage, private bath- Te CRD has an overall vacancy rate of 0.7 percent, rooms and safe personal space. As part of the 2017 Budget including a vacancy rate of zero for three-bedroom units. Update, the province announced that it will invest $291 mil- According to the capital regional district’s draf housing lion to support the construction of 2,000 modular units for afordability strategy, about 6,200 afordable rental apart- people that are homeless. What’s important is that not only ment units are needed now in greater Victoria just to catch do modular units provide almost immediate relief from up with current demand. homelessness, but they also provide safe shelter, and our Wait-lists for social and supportive housing are extremely modular program ofers the services that are needed. Tis is long. In June 2018, there were 994 households on the B.C. such an important component. Housing wait-list in the capital region. Tere were 1,525 In my community, there’s a crisis in mental health and individuals across the capital region identifed as being addictions issues, and there are no services available. Due to homeless on the night of the 2018 point-in-time count. cuts in services and increases in population, members of my Tere was an overrepresentation of Indigenous people in this community who have mental health and addictions needs do count. It included youth and seniors, and 2.2 percent did not not have local services, and they ofen come to the attention identify with binary gender options. of RCMP or local bylaw ofcers. Youth in need have to wait Further west in my constituency, we’ve experienced an at least one year for service. ongoing issue of housing problems. While the housing crisis In contrast, modular housing brings with it stafng 24-7 5732 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

and life-enhancing services to residents, such as mail pro- include reducing waste, reducing our carbon footprint and grams, life and employment skills training, health and well- reducing construction schedules. ness support services, opportunities for volunteer work. Modular construction has countless applications, includ- Everything is based on people’s assessed needs. Tey can ing new school construction or school additions. Tink of connect residents to community supports. Tey can ofer the value of being able to put up an elementary school in half case planning and needs assessment. Tey can ofer assist- the time it currently takes, and at a discounted price. ance to access income assistance, pension benefts, disability As an example, a new elementary school that’s needed in benefts. Tey can ofer no-cost laundry services either on the rapidly growing Kamloops community of Pineview Val- site or of site. ley could be ordered today, and it would be ready for occu- Te allocation of these units is a responsive move, a pancy in nine months or less, and certainly in time for the responsive program. It brings with it these wraparound ser- start of the next school year in September 2019. It would also vices that are needed so much, and the investment in local be built to the same standards of quality for less cost than a communities is responsive to local needs, strategic plans and school built via conventional construction methods. best-practice research. I also think of care for seniors. Of course, Canadians aren’t Tis is a great opportunity for me to say thank you to all getting any younger, as was reiterated in the latest census. of the non-profts who are partnering…. Seniors now outnumber children for the frst time in history, and the widely held view among the population experts is Deputy Speaker: Tank you, Member. that in less than eight years from now, our nation will require over 130,000 additional spaces for seniors, growing to T. Stone: I am pleased to rise on behalf of the ofcial 240,000 units by 2046. opposition and speak to the benefts of modular construc- An increasingly rapid response to meeting this demand tion — a powerful economic driver across our province, will be critical, and modular construction can get those including in my community of Kamloops. needed facilities open in half the time as traditional on-site Under the leadership of Horizon North CEO Rod Gra- construction — again, with zero reduction in quality. ham, Kamloops is now the home of an industry leader in I’m also proud to remind this House that Horizon North the modular construction industry. What Horizon North is making a huge diference when it comes to creating sup- proudly proclaims as its centre of excellence has developed portive housing to ensure that British Columbia’s most vul- into a technological and industrial marvel, operating like an nerable have safe and secure housing. Horizon North is cur- automotive manufacturing plant to deliver a wide array of rently involved in approximately two dozen afordable hous- modular projects. ing projects across the province. Among these ventures are At present, Rod Graham is directing a team of around 400 600 units in Vancouver, valued at $66 million, to provide a dedicated workers using sophisticated technology and lead- stepping stone from temporary to permanent housing. Tere ing design sofware. Teir Kamloops workforce is expected are also two separate projects in Kamloops to build 104 to increase by an additional 200 more jobs over the next units, valued at $11.4 million. couple of years. Te skilled team of construction workers in Now, Luke Harrison, CEO of the Vancouver Afordable Kamloops is producing modules of various sizes in a factory Housing Agency, says: “It’s not a solution for everything, but controlled environment. it’s a great tool that we have in our arsenal now to deal with I’ve had the privilege of touring this facility, as I know things like the homeless population that requires an urgent the Minister of Housing has as well, and I know that she and critical response that just doesn’t come as easily through will agree that the work being done here in this Kamloops traditional forms of conventional construction.” facility is absolutely incredible. Horizon North has trans- Modular construction stands poised to provide British formed modular construction far beyond work camp Columbians with tremendous benefts, meeting the needs accommodation, though I note that those particular mod- of our citizens, such as schools, senior centres, supportive ules are now homes away from home, designed with the all housing and more — delivering on the requirements of of the luxuries and comfort that one would desire in his or quality, sustainability and afordability, all the while her private residence. providing local communities like Kamloops with good- [10:15 a.m.] paying, skilled jobs. Imagine LEGO blocks being built in a controlled and To quote Horizon North’s CEO Rod Graham on the closed environment in a manufacturing facility, rather than excitement and the state of the readiness of B.C.’s modular at an outdoor construction environment, shipped to site and construction industry: “We’re just getting started.” assembled on site. Te technique uses the same materials as conventional construction and designs to the same codes M. Dean: Tank you so much to the member for Kam- and standards but saves 30 to 50 percent of the time. When loops–South Tompson. Yes, you’re right. It’s these new pro- done, the structure is indistinguishable from conventional vincial investments in modular housing that are also creating construction methods. Te benefts of modular construction thousands of jobs and boosting local economies throughout the province. Manufacturers, as mentioned, in Kamloops Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5733 and, also, Kelowna, Penticton, Cumberland and Westbank approach to address the changes in hydrology, watersheds are building these modular units, and that supports stability and debris management that is resulting in foods. Te same and the growth of local businesses. applies in the manner, or lack thereof, of assisting people Tere’s also fexibility in the modular technology, which afer they have been afected by wildfres and foods. means that a range of buildings are being developed My riding of Cariboo North is a perfect example of what throughout B.C. in ways that ft the housing and support the combined efects of wildfres, foods and landslides can needs of the communities that they will be put into. For have in altering people’s lives. We continue to have families example, repurposed temporary modular housing was used who were burned out in 2017 still waiting for a home, strug- to quickly address a critical need in Surrey, while permanent, gling with insurance companies, lack of contractors, dif- frm fve-storey buildings with elevators and other amenities culty in getting permits and overwhelmed by the prospect of are being constructed in Kamloops. spending another winter without a home. Let’s take the example from Surrey. A camp had estab- I’ve visited multiple times with these families. Te real- lished itself for many months, culminating with 160 people ity is they’re still facing the emotional devastation of losing living along 135A Street. Tey were ofered supportive hous- their home and possessions. Tey do not want to move as ing at the temporary buildings that were announced in Janu- they are still going through the burned-out rubble, look- ary or shelter beds at one of the local shelters. Te 160 units ing for possessions that are dear to them. Tere needs to of temporary housing included secure individual rooms with be better support with long-term rebuilding for families, private bathrooms and access to meal programs, counselling, support with accessing reliable contractors, working with medical ofces, skills programming and 24-7 stafng. insurance companies, prioritizing permits to assist people What was really signifcant about this project was that the to rebuild their lives. end result was that everyone chose to go to one of the shelter For the 200-plus residents in the Buckridge and Estella options that was ofered. None of the homeless population areas, two years of wildfres and then the devastating land- from 135A Street chose to remain on the street or move to slide of 2018 have lef their lives remarkably altered. Follow- an alternative homeless camp. ing the 2017 wildfre season, a post-hydrologic risk assess- [10:20 a.m.] ment of West Fraser Road and the Narcosli watershed In less than a year, our government has actually delivered impacted by the Plateau wildfre complex covering an area of 2,064 modular homes in 22 communities. We’re going to 521,012 hectares and stretching 130 kilometres from one end build on the success of this program and the interest that to the other…. Afer the fres, signifcant debris and changes we’ve heard from across B.C. communities. We’ve launched in hydrology have lef signifcant impacts in both fooding the supportive housing fund, and we’re going to deliver an and landslides. additional 2,500 new homes with 24-7 services. In the spring of 2018, West Fraser Road faced a signifcant We know this is only a start in tackling the homeless situ- landslide in six areas. Residents are now being told, when ation. Tat’s why work is underway across government to they meet with the Ministry of Transportation, it may be develop a homelessness action plan, and that will develop fxed by 2020, but it still needs to go through signifcant really long-term solutions. And I am committed to continue reviews, and it needs to go through treasury. to work with our municipalities, with our First Nations band Here is the reality for people who live in Buckridge and councils and with the local non-proft agencies in our com- Estella. Tey are now travelling on an altered road — narrow, munity to identify where and when we can bring these gravel, remote. For the 28 children who live in that area, they resources to our communities. are getting on a school bus at 6:30 in the morning, travel- ling two hours on this narrow gravel road, shared with the ECONOMIC RECOVERY PLAN FOR industry. Four hours a day children are travelling on these COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY remote gravel rural roads to attend school. WILDFIRES AND FLOODS [10:25 a.m.] Te community members are concerned that they’re not C. Oakes: I truly am pleased today to have the oppor- being heard. We have seen disaster fnancial assistance in tunity to present an economic recovery plan for communi- other parts of the province when landslides have happened, ties afected by wildfres and foods. Te 2017-2018 wildfre and the community members of Narcosli, Buckridge and season saw a combined total of over 2.55 million hectares Estella want to ensure that resources will be made available of forests burned, with each season setting a record of the for them as well. largest area burned in British Columbia history. Tens of For the communities living in Nazco and Kluskus, who thousands of people were forced to evacuate their homes, have been afected by two seasons of wildfres and fooding, and many sufered destruction of property and total loss of their challenge that we have is that insurance doesn’t cover homes or their inability to earn a living on the land. fooding. So families who have been afected by multiple If we’ve learned anything from the last two record seasons years are waiting to try and have their insurance challenges of wildfre seasons, it’s that our current approach to fghting addressed. More needs to be done to assist them. and preventing wildfres isn’t working. We need a diferent A little over a week ago, 100 workers in our community 5734 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 of Quesnel faced immediate layof from the Tolko Quest that. But it’s there, it’s available, and I’d be happy to help any- Wood lumber mill. We certainly understand, with the sig- one who needs help navigating that. nifcant amount of fbre that was burned during the wild- Te member mentioned that the current approach to fres, that we would see limited fbre and we would start to fghting fres or to dealing with our wildfres in British see changes in our community. I can tell you that this kind Columbia is not working. of news sends a chill through the hearts of families living [10:30 a.m.] in our communities. I think both sides of the House are in agreement that we We are one of the most forest-dependent communities have a lot of work to do when it comes to fghting fres and in British Columbia. When changes in our economy and preparing our communities for the impacts that we’re facing changes that we’ve seen resulted in wildfres, communities around climate change, whether that is fres, foods, land- are asking where the resources are to help people retrain, slides or whatever is next — hopefully, nothing. rebuild, reinvest and look at new opportunities to move on I wanted to say that that’s why we — at least the Ministry in the community in their lives. of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources alone — committed West Fraser Road serves as another example of how com- over $72 million over three years for wildfre recovery and to munities need to be working together. With signifcant loss help build communities’ resilience to wildfres. Of this $72 in areas of economy, we also need to look at how we can million, this includes $50 million over the next three years address impacts on other economies, such as the guide-out- under the new community resiliency investment program ftters. We’ve had challenges, as well, rebuilding, with the — which people are giving a horrible acronym of CRIP — trappers, signifcant areas afected by the Plateau fre. For to reduce wildfre risk around First Nations and local com- these types of economic-related individuals on the land base, munities. It also includes $22 million over the next three there needs to be a way for the government to work with years to assist land base recovery in the most heavily them to support them. impacted areas. A guide-outftter goes out to shows, many of them two or Tis $22 million is for looking at things like access man- three years out. Now, with the efects of two years of wildfre agement for fre access roads, to improve or recover water seasons, they have to refund all of that. Eighty percent of the storage facilities and dams, to rehabilitate range lands and territory is burnt out for guide-outftters and trappers, and reforestation. Tis $72 million builds on a whole bunch of they are asking the government where the resources are to other commitments that this government has already made. help them rebuild and look at alternatives. In 2017, $100 million was allocated to the Canadian Red Tere’s also, as I’ve mentioned, a signifcant loss of log Cross to assist people afected by wildfres. To date, as of this supply in our communities. Tere are opportunities to work spring, the Red Cross has provided support to over 22,000 with industry to make sure that we’re getting permits out households to return home and has made over 66,000 distri- much quicker. We’ve continued to raise concerns that we butions of fnancial assistance. Tey’ve held over 7,700 meet- have with the bug epidemics that we’ve seen with both the ings with individuals and families needing ongoing help to spruce bud beetle as well as the Douglas fr. Tere are signi- recover, made 1,200 referrals to external mental health and fcant concerns that by the time the studies have been com- support agencies and completed over 220 outreach visits to pleted, it will be a signifcant epidemic, as we’ve seen with the impacted communities. mountain pine beetle. As of this September, 27 community recovery managers I’ll continue in a moment. have been hired to oversee the implementation of com- munity recovery plans in 25 communities. Tat includes in J. Rice: As the member mentioned, it was indeed an the Cariboo and the areas that the member opposite has just unprecedented wildfre and food season both in 2017 and spoken about. 2018, with 1.2 million hectares burned in 2017 and 1.3 mil- Tere’s a long list here of recovery plans that have been lion hectares burned during this year’s wildfre season. submitted to the provincial government. I won’t get into all In 2017, too, we had over 65,000 people displaced. We of those — but basically to say that there’s a lot of work that’s had about one-third of that this year — displaced during the being done, even though there may still need to be more wildfre season and hundreds and hundreds of homes and work done. other structures lost. Tere are mental health and wellness working groups. Recovery eforts are focused in four key areas: people in Tey’re working on short-term and long-term supports. communities, economy and environment, infrastructure Funding has been approved for four community wellness and then reconstruction. A list of the 2017 recovery pro- managers in Ashcrof, 100 Mile House, Quesnel and Wil- grams and initiatives available to individuals, families, busi- liams Lake. Te Ministry of Health, First Nations Health nesses, the ag sector and First Nations are available on the Authority, Canadian Red Cross and many government B.C. government website. It’s gov.bc.ca/wildfrerecovery. ministries, Interior Health, community policing, not-for- Ten there’s the local authorities and First Nations recov- proft groups are all involved in delivery and supports for ery toolkit that is also published on line on the B.C. govern- this region. ment website. I won’t go on and talk about all the slashes and Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5735

C. Oakes: First, I do want to thank the member for North issue that I really have nothing to do with — cycling infra- Coast for the work that both she and the ministry did over structure, walking and multi-use transportation invest- the last few years. We really do appreciate it. ments. I think these are very important investments. I I think it’s also ftting for me to take a moment to thank think everyone would be surprised that I would be sup- all of the incredible men and women who worked tirelessly portive of investments in cycling. But with my history…. over the last two years to keep our communities safe and I absolutely love bicycles. I’m going to talk about why to work diligently on both fres and foods. Te comments people might ride bicycles. that I make today are not a criticism. Tey’re just an ongoing My own history with a bicycle was through recovery. A conversation of gaps that we see evolving that we need to lot of people begin cycling through recovery from injuries. I address. took it on as a sport. I travelled around the world and rode Te Cariboo Fire Centre learned so much from 2017, and my bicycle all over Japan and built a business importing and they implemented those changes in 2018. To all the men and manufacturing bicycles. So they are a big part of my life. It’s women working in the Cariboo Fire Centre: I’m so incred- no surprise that I’m supportive. ibly thankful for the work that you do. But why would I ride a bicycle? I ride a bicycle for all the To our Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and reasons that people mention: for better health — physical Rural Development director, the regional men and women health but, even more importantly, mental health; for envir- working in our communities: you live in our communities. onmental integrity and responsibility, as I take away my You understand the needs that are required. You understand emissions and my footprint; to reduce congestion in our cit- the gaps. I think it’s ftting that we in the Legislature under- ies and confict on our roads. All of those things. But for me, stand what your needs are and try and fnd ways, with the the number one reason is that it’s fun to ride a bicycle. limited resources that we always have, to fll in those gaps. I have to say that I’ve ridden a long way. I estimate at least I would like to draw attention and hope that the member seven times around the equator. I’ve been hit seven times by and all members of this House will help assist us in raising cars. So I know full well the implications of not making these to the federal government the needs for disaster fnancial investments, and how they hold people back from experien- assistance for the communities afected by the West Fraser cing what I consider to be one of my favourite things about Road landslide. being a human being. It is, in fact, one of the most common [10:35 a.m.] experiences of human beings: learning to ride a bicycle. Please, if there’s anything…. Tese community members Last year there were 1.9 million people in British are being told it will be several years waiting for that road Columbia who rode their bicycles at least once. Te num- to be built, and their lives have been signifcantly altered. So, ber of bicycle trips to work and back has increased 64 per- please, if there’s anything you can do to assist them…. cent since 1996. I also want to draw attention to the post-wildfre hydraulic In Victoria here, we have a nation-leading 16.9 percent of risk assessment of the West Fraser Road and the Narcosli commuters either using bicycles, walking or other means of watersheds impacted by the Plateau wildfre complex. I’m active transportation. Tey have a plan here in Victoria to signifcantly concerned that if we do not address the hydro- build 32 kilometres of cycling infrastructure, including 5.4 logy challenges that we have, due to the wildfres we’ve seen, kilometres of protected bike lanes in the city here. Tat will we’re going to face signifcantly more challenges when it help a lot of people get on their bikes who are afraid of riding comes to spring freshet. in trafc, like I could be. Tere’s lots of attention on fres. We need to make sure I think that if we’re careful…. We have a much higher that resources and support for our regional FLNRORD degree of awareness from drivers now than we had before, teams are there for addressing the hydrological risks that we but there are still conficts. In the frst 14 months of Victoria’s face in our communities. I would ask the member to cham- cycling plan, there were 530,000 trips over these bike lanes. pion that as well, with some assistance. When completed, the 32 kilometres of cycling infrastructure Finally, for the employees and businesses afected by the should reduce 10,000 tonnes of carbon emissions. closure of Tolko…. I have met with the Minister of Forests, In Vancouver, more than 10 percent of people cycle to Lands and Natural Resources and ofered to work collabor- work. Tat’s No. 1 of all major North American cities. In atively together. I think there are some lessons we learned Victoria, they’re nation-leading in these numbers here in when we were in government with a cross-ministry strategic Canada. Fify percent of the commuting trips in Vancouver approach by bringing in everything from Ministry of Chil- are either by foot, by bike or by transit. Tis is an extraordin- dren and Families, Rural Development, to Forests, Lands ary number, and it’s a number that we must increase if we and Natural Resources. hope to reach our climate goals. [10:40 a.m.] INVESTING IN CYCLING, WALKING Tis July Vancouver broke ridership records on fve of AND MULTI-USER INFRASTRUCTURE their major bike routes through the city. On the Burrard Bridge bike lane alone, in July, there were 216,000 trips. On D. Routley: I rise today to speak to the House about an the Point Grey Road bike lane in July, there were 110,000 5736 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 trips. Te Mobi bike-lending service in Vancouver has development. But ofen these trails are on diferent routes in grown in a few short years from 250 bicycles and 23 stations areas that are more rural, and that, I think, is a beneft. Cyc- to more than 800 bicycles and 100 stations. ling also gets you of the main drag, as it were, and allows Clearly, if we build it, they will ride. If we build the infra- you to really see the community more from, I would say, a structure, the people will use it. recreational point of view. Whenever I talk to people, I ask them…. I ask cyclists: Now, I have had the privilege of running for 25 years. “Why do you ride your bike?” Almost invariably, they say: A friend of mine who was a police ofcer got me started. “For my health, my mental health.” Tere’s nothing better He got me started running. We used to run all of the trails afer a long frustrating day at work, or in question period, to around the community in my riding of Abbotsford-Mission, get on a bike and roll away, feel the wind, breathe the air and and what a great experience it was. Unfortunately, he had to think calm thoughts, because you’re in a bike lane protected stop running because of some physical challenges, but I kind from trafc. of kept going. It’s a very important investment that progressive cities [10:45 a.m.] are making all over the world. It counts for health. It We have Discovery Trail in Abbotsford. Some of you may counts for emissions. It also counts for the economy. have heard of that. It traverses much of our urban area. Every Retailers along bike paths in Vancouver have noticed a month thousands of people run across that. Tey walk across strong increase in their retail sales. Tis is a very import- it. Tey take their families along there, with their kids. Tey ant factor. We already know that bicycle tourism is a very push their kids in buggies. So it’s really building community, signifcant contributor to the economy and does increase as I said in my earlier remarks. It follows the power lines, as we make these investments. areas that couldn’t ofen be used for anything else. I’m standing here in support of further investments in Now, I’ve seen deer, and I saw a coyote one time. We cycling infrastructure. I hope all members in the House will have raccoons. Friends of mine who have taken these trails agree with me. have seen cougar and even bear along the Discovery Trail. Seniors walk their dogs, which is, of course, a great thing S. Gibson: I’m pleased to speak to this statement regard- for community. It’s an opportunity for a variety of demo- ing investing in cycling, walking and multi-use infrastruc- graphic groups. Running and cycling clubs, of course, use ture by the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan. I appre- these trails as well. ciate that. One thing the speaker, the member for Nanaimo–North I want to begin by saying that there’s a diference between Cowichan, did acknowledge earlier on was about alternat- living in community and living in a community. Te difer- ives to driving. Increasingly, in urban areas, you’re seeing ence is that when you live in a community, you care about where people are actually commuting, using the trails, walk- the people that you’re with — your citizens that you share the ing and cycling. Tere’s a trail here in Victoria. I think it’s the community with. wild goose trail. Is that the name of it? Now, community is about cooperative healthy lifestyle, the opportunity to build relationships, supporting family as An Hon. Member: Te Galloping Goose. the foundation in a secure society, and recreation and sport that’s organized. S. Gibson: Yeah, right. Some of you will know Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the I ran that the other day, and I bumped into quite a few pyramid. Well, at the very top was something called self- people who were actually commuting along there. It was actualization. When we get out and use these recreation- kind of neat. Tere’s an afrmation that it can happen even al trails that the member was talking about, I believe we here in our capital city, right here in Victoria, particularly in self-actualize more successfully because we get to know urban areas. our strengths — our recreational strengths and our phys- Investing in this kind of infrastructure is good for our ical capacities. Investing in these roadways, these trails, for health. It’s good for community. It builds social contact. I cycling and walking and other personal pursuits is a good want to acknowledge this motion from the member for thing and desirable. I want to agree with the member this Nanaimo–North Cowichan. morning. My experience as a long-distance cyclist afrms this. One D. Routley: I thank the member for his reply, and I’m very of the things I have appreciated is the people I’ve gotten to happy that he would agree that these are important invest- know along the way. You’ll be cycling. Somebody will come ments. I think everyone in the House would agree. I think it’s up beside you, and all of a sudden you’ve kind of made a new hard not to when you look at the outcomes, both in terms of friend, as it were. You cycle for many kilometres together and people’s health and in reducing impact on the environment then part ways. and making a community a more livable place. Te other beneft to these trails is that you see communit- I always want to encourage people to ride. You don’t want ies from a diferent perspective. If you’re always on the road- to tell them scary stories about being hit by cars or about ways, well, that’s what you see. You see all the commercial having bad experiences with drivers, but it is an important Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5737 aspect of what happens out there. I can say that, just very tra- fragile? Are they inclusive or exclusive? Are they efcient or gically, last night on Marine Drive a pedestrian was killed. I bureaucratic? Tis afects our quality of life and the culture believe it was an accident, and the outcome of the accident that we live within. was that a pedestrian was killed. It re-emphasizes the It’s important to recognize, frst of all, that electoral reform importance of having separations for trafc. When you’ve is complicated. Te diferent forms of government require got multiple thousand-pound vehicles travelling at high expertise, and they require time. It takes a long time to get speed around very sof vehicles called human bodies com- up to speed. Tere aren’t a lot of experts in the world who bined with tiny light vehicles called bicycles, the outcomes know all there is to know about diferent forms of electoral can be terribly tragic. systems. It is important to get that expertise and to take the Yesterday I was chased by a driver on my bicycle. I was time to understand it, because it will have a profound impact chased, and the driver intentionally tried to hit me multiple on our quality of life and the way we govern ourselves. times — and swore, cursed and jumped out of his van. I It’s important to keep an open mind about the opportun- rarely do this, but I wrote all this down, and today I’m going ities that are available from diferent systems and also to rec- to be making a complaint to the police. Tis kind of thing is ognize the things we may not always appreciate about the something that I used to experience routinely on a bicycle. system we have. You know, we’re so accustomed to it that we Now it’s much more rare, but it happens. It’s one of the reas- ofen don’t realize how much it means to us and what it does ons that we need to support these kinds of investments. I’m for our culture. an extremely experienced cyclist. I have bright, fashing LED It’s important, when creating a new electoral reform sys- lights on my body and my bicycle when I’m riding. I am very tem, to have a set of values. We must develop these values, visible, very responsible, yet I can still wind up in a confict against which systems would be measured. Creating a really like that. comprehensive set of values is critical. It requires impartial- When we look at that aspect of our lives, in Toronto, afer ity, and politicians, unfortunately, are hopelessly conficted they made signifcant cycling investments, conficts on the in this issue. Tey are likely to be biased — and, possibly, road, from car driver to car driver, decreased 71 percent — unconsciously biased. It goes without saying that because let alone the conficts between cyclists and car drivers. So it’s their own success or failure is linked with the electoral sys- very important. As we experience congestion, there are the tem, this has to be the case. obvious psychological reactions to that, and some people, Even if they’re not biased, there will be a perception of unfortunately, react in a less than positive way. I think it bias. It’s not only important to have an impartially decided would be a lot easier just to separate that trafc than to system but that these systems be perceived to be unbiased. If evolve and elevate those people to a place where they would the citizens suspect that the oferings are related to extern- respect the other people on the road. al power issues, there will be a question of legitimacy, and When I think of my kids, when I think of parents send- by removing many of the decisions and the processes from ing their kids to walk to school, they’re afraid for their people who are likely to be conficted, this will increase the lives. When you think of your parents or elderly people legitimacy of whatever is the result. walking on the side of the road, you’re afraid for their lives. It’s important, also, to understand the idea, the concept Tat shouldn’t be the case. All over the world, we have of representation. What does that mean, “representation”? examples of best practice. We should do it here; we should Tere are two diferent aspects of that. continue to invest. [10:55 a.m.] [10:50 a.m.] One is the perspective of what voters see. How do they see their own world in the area that they live? Diferent A LEGITIMATE PATHWAY voters see the same thing diferently. I can’t help but notice TO ELECTORAL REFORM — in talking to people, some from diferent visible minority groups — that when I go down a street of my city, I’m actu- S. Sullivan: My statement today is on the legitimate path ally in a diferent city than they are because of the social to electoral reform. Tis is a very serious issue. Parliament, environment. of course, is engaged in the exercise of power, and we have to Representation is not a mathematical issue. It’s not an take utmost care when considering electoral reform. abstract thing. It actually is highly related to the perspective When I look around the world — I look at the diferent of voters and citizens. I note that there are some pretty well- countries and the quality of life of people — it strikes me that established international best practices. Te United King- people really are the same everywhere. We have the same dom has a very well-developed system. Tese systems are desires; we have the same motivations. What makes us dif- not ensconced in our political system here now. Te ferent are our institutions and ofen the culture that’s derived European Union has done a lot of work on developing best from those institutions. Te structure of our institutions dir- practices for how to come to new electoral systems. ectly infuences our national character, and it infuences our Probably the greatest resource is right here in British quality of life and the way that we engage with each oth- Columbia. It’s called the citizens’ assembly. Tere were 160 er, our citizenship. Are our government systems resilient or citizens chosen from diferent ridings — male, female, two 5738 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 people from each riding. Tey spent 11 months looking at make decisions based on whether they believe minorities the issues of values, the issues of diferent electoral systems. should have a voice. I think that can be, on the face of it, Tey actually ran computer models of these various diferent seen as an illegitimate question. When you put power against systems, and they were able to identify real faws within those who are disempowered by a simple vote of majority, I some of them, because of the incredible work they did. Tey think we have a problem. are an incredible resource, and that expertise exists right When it’s an issue for opinions to be sought, there are here among us. fair questions around process. Tose are expected in this place. Te discussions around diferent styles and diferent N. Simons: Tank you to my friend, my colleague from forms of ascertaining public opinion are legitimate discus- False Creek, for his comments on this important issue. I sions. Whether you come to a conclusion that you believe is appreciate the thought he puts into these kinds of issues — right or wrong, it can’t be questioned as to whether it’s legit- sometimes seen as dry issues that are, maybe, beyond the imate or not. daily conversations of our fellow citizens but that, nonethe- I really appreciate the opportunity to have this brief dis- less, require some thought, especially on important issues cussion with my friend, and I look forward to his concluding such as how we are represented in a democracy, how the comments. choices of individuals are represented in the place where decisions are made. S. Sullivan: Tank you to the hon. member for his com- Te member stated that everybody sees things slightly dif- ments. I certainly don’t want him to be under the misap- ferently. I think that’s a fair comment. I think even the defn- prehension that this statement has anything to do with any ition of “legitimacy” is sometimes subjective and needs to be issues that might be ongoing at this time. It’s completely discussed at a deeper level than we ofen get a chance to do independent. in this chamber. I understand, also…. Tere’s sort of a veiled comment [R. Chouhan in the chair.] about a process we’re currently engaged in. I think it’s important to point out that when we ask the public for their It is very important that citizens, when they are asked a opinion in the form of a referendum or any other sort of question, have a real question that can be answered, that public opinion measurement, it’s important to consider all of there is good information, that these are fully canvassed the factors related to that particular decision that the pub- and that the citizens really know what they’re voting on lic has to make. At a certain point, there’s an assumption when they do vote. I’ll note again that the idea of repres- that people will have an understanding of the question that entation is not mathematical. It’s not just abstract. Tere they’re being given. Based on that understanding, whether are diferent ways that we perceive the community that we it’s an in-depth understanding or a superfcial understand- live in, and any electoral system, any governance system, ing, there’s a sense to what question they’re being asked. has to take that into account. I think when we talk about legitimacy — or the opposite, Te international best practices that have been devel- illegitimacy — we’re getting into a little bit of brinksmanship. oped around the world…. Te United Kingdom has a very I think what we’re dealing with here is that we have levels of formulaic way of approaching things that I think is worth integrity, levels of measurement that may not simply ft into looking at. Te European Union, as well, has done some legitimate or not legitimate. I believe that when you ask the very in-depth research on how to truly determine the will public for an opinion on an issue, you can measure it. It’s of the people. measurable. It’s a measurement of those who spend the time Of course, the citizens’ assembly model is the model that I to express their opinion. think…. Tere may be other, equally legitimate models, but We’ve heard comments from the opposition about the it certainly has set a very high bar, a very good standard. legitimacy of government under this system that we use With the 160 people that are currently here in British here, though the party that manages to gain the confdence Columbia that stand ready and waiting to be consulted, I of the Legislature is a legitimate government. Despite that, think that we have a huge opportunity to use their resources, we hear members of the opposition calling government ille- their knowledge, to help us in any way we move forward in gitimate. electoral reform. [11:00 a.m.] I think last week there was mention of the legitimacy of Hon. C. James: I call Motion 28, from the member for the municipal elections that occurred just this past weekend Burnaby North, for consideration. and whether or not the results of that election, wherever they were held, were legitimate or not. In fact, the question is a bit Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, unanimous consent of of an undermining question when it’s stated in that way. In the House is required to proceed with Motion 28 without fact, legitimacy can be adherence to rules, adherence to the disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the accepted practice that we undertake here. order paper. What isn’t legitimate is, I believe, asking a majority to Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5739

Leave granted. And only 44 percent of young voters went to the polls at all. In other words, the majority of people who have to live the Private Members’ Motions longest with the consequences of political decisions are not participating in the making of those decisions. MOTION 28 — ELECTORAL SYSTEM I’ll tell you where voter turnout isn’t in crisis, and that’s in countries that elect their governments through a system J. Routledge: I move the following motion: of proportional representation. For example: Iceland, 89 per- [Be it resolved that this House support an electoral system where cent; New Zealand, 88 percent; Denmark, 87 percent. Tese every vote counts and where the percentage of seats in the legislature are countries that score higher than Canada on the human refects the percentage of popular vote.] development index and where citizens tend to be happier We’ve been hearing a lot of arguments about the virtues and feel more secure. of frst-past-the-post, and I must say most of them seem Tose who oppose proportional representation say that specious to me. I take issue with the assertions from across our current winner-takes-all electoral system is working. But the aisle that every vote counts now under the current sys- working for whom — for the 3 percent of British Columbi- tem because they help every constituent who comes to them ans who have 56 percent of the wealth? It doesn’t work for without even asking who they voted for. Te opposition the growing number of working poor or for the 20 percent seems to think of themselves as legislative shop stewards, of the B.C. kids living in poverty. and they’re missing the point. One fnal point, Mr. Speaker. Defenders of the status quo [11:05 a.m.] have argued that proportional representation will legitimize I grew up in Ontario, and I have voted in every election right-wing extremism. Well, it’s already on the rise, even here since I was old enough to do so. But it wasn’t until I was in in British Columbia. It’s a symptom of deep and chronic my 30s that I got to vote for someone who actually won. Tat social divisions, it’s an angry response to the fear of losing was the year I moved to B.C. one’s place in the pecking order, and it is nowhere more My parents lived their entire lives in Ontario. Sometimes prevalent and dangerous than in the largest, most powerful, they took turns voting. Because one was a Liberal and the winner-takes-all democracy in the world. other was a Tory, they fgured that if they both voted, they Proportional representation does not create right-wing would cancel out each other’s ballot. extremism, but it could help to contain it. I submit that In those days, the values of the two main parties were so democracy is not a spectator sport. Pro rep can bring citizens similar, it didn’t really make a diference to your family’s for- down out of the bleachers and onto the playing feld. If we tunes which one formed government. You rooted for your invite citizens to be part of the game, they’re more likely to party the way you rooted for your hockey team. I fnally did feel like they have a stake in the outcome. With pro rep, we manage to convince my mother to vote for my party, and can all be winners. she had a good laugh when her neighbours were wondering aloud who that one NDP vote was in our poll. M. Morris: I have news for the member. Under our cur- So don’t try to tell me that everyone’s vote counts under rent system, every vote is counted by Elections B.C. — every frst-past-the-post. It’s not about case work. It’s not about single vote — unless the ballot is incorrectly flled out. whether or not your MLA will help you when you get into Over the years since 1982, when our Charter of Rights and trouble, even if you didn’t vote for them. It’s about whether Freedoms was entrenched into the Constitution Act, 1982, or not your MLA shares your understanding of why you got there have been many challenges against the electoral pro- into trouble in the frst place and whether or not they will cess in Canada. It frst started in British Columbia, here, fght to change the systemic conditions so it doesn’t happen against section 3. to you or anyone else ever again. [11:10 a.m.] Today we live in diferent times. In fact, we live in deeply I want to quote an observation by the Supreme Court in a troubled times. We see the evidence of it every time we turn case from 2003, where the court said: “In each election, a sig- on the news. In the most powerful and infuential nation nifcant number of citizens vote for candidates nominated by in the world, politics has turned into a Roman circus. Fear registered parties in full awareness that the candidate has no and alienation are becoming defning features of our society, realistic chance of winning a seat in Parliament, or that the and it’s taking its toll on voter turnout. Any politician who party of which she or he is a member has no realistic chance hasn’t been hearing voter apathy on the doorstep hasn’t been of winning a majority of seats in the House of Commons. paying attention. In fact, in established democracies, voter Just as these votes are not ‘wasted votes,’ votes for a politic- turnout has been in gradual decline since the 1960s. Tis al party that has not satisfed the thresholds are not wasted should worry us. votes either.” Look at New Brunswick, where voters went to the polls Te Supreme Court has recognized the fact that votes recently. Twenty-two thousand more people voted Liberal aren’t wasted, that every vote is counted. What the member’s than Conservative, yet the Conservatives won more seats. motion refers to is support for a system that changes the res- 5740 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 ults of an election, the outcome of the elections, afer the J. Brar: It’s always a real honour for me to stand up in this votes have been cast. House and to support the motion introduced by the member We have 87 ridings in the province. Who knows how for Burnaby North. many we’ll have if and when proportional representation [11:15 a.m.] takes place. Votes are cast. Ten they come up with a system Te motion reads: “Be it resolved that this House support of mathematics to try and change the outcome of the vote by an electoral system where every vote counts and where the eliminating the regional votes that we have here. It’s a system percentage of seats in the legislature refects the percentage that ofends the basic democratic rights of citizens to vote for of popular vote.” Tat’s the key for our democracy. a member of the Legislature. When I was a young student at the school in my village…. All proposed PR models that this government is putting At that time, I grew up believing that democracy means forward speak about political parties appointing a member majority rules. Even if you ask a lot of people out there today, of the Legislature, not the citizens voting. It’s a system that there will be a lot of people who tell you that democracy destroys the equality of voting power guaranteed by section means majority rules. But the reality is opposite. A majority 3 of our Charter. Our Charter states that every citizen has of the time, it’s a minority rule, and that’s a problem. Tat is the right to vote for a member of the House of Commons not working for the people. or of a Legislative Assembly and to be qualifed for member- Tat’s why it’s about time for a new way of voting that ship therein. It doesn’t say anything about a political party works for the people. For too long, the outdated voting sys- appointing a member to the House. tem has put too much power in the hands of too few when I want to quote another case from the Supreme Court of the majority of the people are lef out. Te current voting Canada. It says: “Section 3 should be understood with ref- system is not good for the people. erence to the right of each citizen to play a meaningful role Te Quebec election, for example, on October 1, saw the in the electoral process, rather than the election of a particu- conservative coalition receive only 37 percent of the popular lar form of government. It’s found in the fact that the rights vote but 59 percent of the total seats. Quebec’s results are of section 3 are participatory in nature. Section 3 does not similar to what happened in Ontario last June, when Doug advert to the composition of Parliament subsequent to an Ford’s Conservative party took 61 percent of the seats with election, but only to the right of each citizen to a certain level only 40 percent of the popular vote. of participation in the electoral process itself.” Tese are just two of the latest examples of our outdated Te member and many of the members have alluded to electoral system. In these two recent elections, each party the fact that the person that they voted for didn’t get elected. won 100 percent of the power with less than 50 percent of Tat is the consequence of a voting system that refects the the vote. Te problem with this picture is that the percent- will of the people. Efective and meaningful representation is age of seats in the legislatures of Quebec and Ontario does aforded to all British Columbians in the ability to particip- not refect the percentage of popular vote each party got, and ate in the electoral process. that is wrong. Te outcome of the electoral process refects the will of the We saw something very similar happen here in this people. Fringe parties or parties that may receive a propor- province under the B.C. Liberals. Election afer election, they tion of the popular vote in only a fraction of the electoral would get less than half of the votes and grab 100 percent districts have, in reality, received insufcient public support of the power, and it was hard-working people of British provincially. Proportional representation would ofend the Columbia who paid the price. Te B.C. Liberals made every- basic rights of efective and meaningful representation by one pay more for everything, while cutting important ser- converting regional results through a mathematical formula. vices like health care and education. Again, on that note, I want to quote another quote from On the other hand, they gave huge tax cuts, the very frst the Supreme Court of Canada: “Respect for the inherent dig- day when they came into power, to the top 2 percent of rich nity of a human person, commitment to social justice and people in the province. Tat’s why the B.C. Liberals and their equality, respect for cultural and group identity and faith in wealthy friends are desperate. Tey are completely desperate social and political institutions which enhance the particip- to keep the old way of voting, because it works for the B.C. ation of individuals in society are better met by an elector- Liberals, and it works for the top 2 percent of rich people in al system that focuses on efective representation rather than the province. one that focuses on mathematical parity.” Tat was from a Clearly, the outdated voting system is not working for Supreme Court case back in 1991 that dealt with electoral the people. Too many people feel that their vote doesn’t boundaries. count, that it is wasted, and that’s why people would like to Another quote. Tis one dates back to 1989, but it’s been change this voting system with the new proportional rep- used as a foundational piece of jurisprudence in every resentation system. Supreme Court case that’s looked at electoral reform. “Te Proportional representation is a system used by countries process of adjusting for factors other than population is not around the world to ensure that everyone’s vote counts. A capable of precise mathematical defnition.” party that gets 25 percent of the vote gets 25 percent of the seats in the Legislature. Tat’s very simple. Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5741

British Columbia has an opportunity to change our voting To suggest that under PR you will now be guaranteed that system so that everyone’s vote can count. Te referendum your vote will result in someone locally representing your to change the voting system by mail-in ballot will run from views as a political party in this House, is, frankly, totally October 22 to November 30, 2018. wrong and totally misleading. If we want to look at the sys- Proportional representation can fx this. With pro rep, tem and the situation we have under this current House, everyone’s vote will count. Pro rep will strengthen the voice we’re currently sitting in opposition with the most amount of of people from every region of the province. Parties will have elected seats. Tere has been a deal struck, and that’s totally to work together to get things done for the people. Te gov- within the rules of the game. ernments are more stable. People have a greater sense of sat- Let’s look at what happens when you have three party isfaction in their democracies. members able to control the government and keep a gov- We have a chance to put power back in the hands of the ernment in power. It doesn’t relate to their 18 percent of the regular people and elect government that works for every- vote; it’s closer to about 4 percent of the vote, for the num- one, not for the top 2 percent of rich people. We have a ber of seats they’re currently holding. Let’s look and see what chance to fnally put people at the centre of politics, and they’ve been able to drive as a deal. Under PR, that’s what that’s why I support the motion that this House support an it’s about. It’s all about deal-making. It’s all about following electoral system where every vote counts and where the per- through for your party base on what your platform was and centage of the seats in the Legislature refects the percentage getting those deals negotiated. of the popular vote. Let’s look at what deals have been negotiated so far. Of the 18 percent of the people that voted Green last time — the P. Milobar: It gives me pleasure to rise to speak to this three seats that control this Legislature — so far all they have motion today. seen are deals that are completely self-serving for the three [11:20 a.m.] Green Party members that are in this House. Te 18 percent I have to say that I haven’t been in this House for that long of the vote has not wound up with any legislation. Zero legis- now — it’s about a year and a half — but I think this has to be lation has been passed in this House that is not self-serving one of the more, frankly, ridiculous conversations we’re hav- for the Green Party. ing right now, given that we’re in the middle of a referendum In fact, it’s down to the point that the only thing within — a time when we have been told, by Elections B.C., that we that CASA agreement that’s actually been acted upon, of any cannot even spend the money to photocopy, let alone boost consequence, is to be given ofcial party status so that the a Facebook post. Yet we’re seeing the government bring for- three, instead of four, become an ofcial party. Tis results in ward motion afer motion to try to discuss, across govern- pay increases for the three members, but it doesn’t result in ment-funded airwaves, which will undoubtedly result in any actual policy being adopted by the government. government-funded press releases, post motions, on these Now, when we want to talk about “every vote counts,” types of issues. when we want to talk about making sure that people are held I fnd it completely ridiculous. Hopefully, the Premier will accountable, just because you vote for 18 percent under PR, be willing to actually set a date so that we could have a prop- it does not guarantee you 18 percent of the legislation being erly televised debate between the party leaders, to make sure passed in this House. What it guarantees you is that you get that people can understand why it is, perhaps, the Premier 18 percent of the seats. Just like with the three seats right is hiding something. I know that’s what I hear in my riding now, you would still control the balance of power. quite a bit, and certainly that would go a long way to maybe What we’re really saying is that under PR, we would prefer allaying fears that there isn’t something being hidden, when that a 5 percent threshold start to control every single legis- we all know that there are a lot of things that need to be lation period moving forward from that next election. Five worked out. percent would actually start to control the balance of power In terms of the motion, we keep hearing: “Every vote will in this House. Tat doesn’t sound like every vote counts. count.” Every vote does currently count. Te fact that we Tat sounds like, actually, 5 percent starts to control, with hear members opposite go on about it, saying, “I’ve never self-serving negotiations. voted for somebody that got into power before or got elected Tat does nothing to advance their own party’s actual before,” doesn’t mean their vote doesn’t count. What it really promises they make to their party members. I don’t remem- means is that they didn’t vote for the person who got the ber the Green Party advocating for Site C, yet we have it most votes in their riding that particular time. going ahead. I don’t remember the Green Party advocating Under proportional representation, there’s no guarantee for LNG, but I see that’s going ahead. I don’t remember the that your vote results in somebody in your riding represent- Green Party advocating for Kinder Morgan, yet now we have ing you. Otherwise, there’d be no need to have an election. it nationalized. We would just self-appoint one person from every party. Tat is what actually happens under PR. We’re seeing it We’d triple the number of MLAs in this House, and we’d call in real time. Te negotiations that happened are nothing it a day. Ten everyone would feel like they have someone but self-serving, self-fulflling projects that they want to see representing them in this House. 5742 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 move forward and that help themselves but don’t help their to refuse to collaborate is what puts the balance of power into base that actually voted for those policies in their platform. the hands of the B.C. Green caucus. Tey have absolutely no In fact, I believe the Leader of the now Tird Party in this one to blame for that but themselves. House actually said afer the election: “Oh, that was during I look forward to throwing out the old, divisive way we do the election. Platforms are irrelevant moving forward.” Well, politics here, bolstered by an antiquated frst-past-the-post what makes anyone think the platforms wouldn’t be irrelev- system that tends towards keeping two dominant parties at ant moving forward under PR? each other’s throats day in and day out. I am tired of the hyper-partisanship that dominates politics here. I am tired Interjections. of an electoral system that encourages political leaders to be more concerned with the health of their party than the Deputy Speaker: Members. health of the public, obsessed with who did what when, whose ideas were better or worse, and majority governments P. Milobar: Tey absolutely would. Tat is why this is a reversing direction on the governments before them just to ridiculous motion. make a political point. [11:25 a.m.] I don’t care who comes up with a good policy idea. I just want it to be implemented, and implemented right, for the Deputy Speaker: Members, just out of courtesy, when one beneft of the public. If it takes two or more parties collabor- member speaks, others please listen. Ten you stand up, state ating, sofening the edges of our distinct political ideologies your point of view. Ten you get your turn. to get things done together, I consider that a good thing and a vast improvement on the status quo. B. Ma: In the coming weeks, people across British No system of democracy is perfect, because humans are Columbia will be receiving ballots for the upcoming elector- terribly imperfect and, Lord knows, our elected ofcials are al reform referendum, collectively making one of the most not infallible. But I do believe that we can do great things important decisions that we can, about the future of demo- together if we set ourselves up to succeed by emphasizing cracy in this great province. When my ballot comes, I will be cooperation over divisiveness, if we build our democracy voting to move away from our old and tired frst-past-the- around a system that values constructive conversations and post system towards a proportional representation system. rewards politicians and political parties that know how to I’m voting for proportional representation because I play well in the sandbox together, rather than parties and believe in the process of democracy, that our governments politicians who deploy the best partisan attacks. are elected to carry out the complex and diverse will of the [11:30 a.m.] public and that our voice into our government is through Tis fall I’m voting for proportional representation our vote. I believe that in a proper democracy, all people are because I believe in democracy. Te question you all have to equal and that all voices matter. So all votes should count ask yourselves is whether you do too. towards the end result of an election. I look forward to B.C. joining democracies like Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, New T. Shypitka: Proportional representation, or PR, has Zealand, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, Ireland. many catchphrases to dumb down the conversation. Perhaps Te list goes on to nearly 90 countries around the world a catchphrase that is most misrepresentative and insulting to that have embraced proportional representation as the way voter intelligence is “every vote counts.” to allow our parliaments to be truly representative of the All around the world, in countries and jurisdictions that diversity of political opinion and the diversity of being that have democratic governments in place, whether or not the truly exists in this province, where 40 percent of the vote representatives got there by a form of PR or by a form of means 40 percent of the seats — not 55 or 60 percent of the plurality such as frst-past-the-post, there is always a gov- seats, like what commonly happens under our current frst- ernment and always an opposition. Simply stated, there are past-the-post system, leading to the creation of false majorit- those that get to run their platforms and those that do not. ies. It has happened in nearly every single election in the his- Te only diference is that when a government is put in place tory of British Columbia. It has allowed a plurality of voters, by a form of PR, the platforms don’t resemble in any way not a majority of voters, to decide, for the entire province, what they were promised to at frst to their constituents. what values and principles their government should apply. Tat’s because with minority governments, to form a I also believe in collaboration, in constructive dialogue, majority of 51 percent, the parties must horse-trade and in compromise for the betterment of the whole. B.C. Liberal deal-make behind close doors. Some call this collaboration. members are fond of lamenting about the B.C. Green caucus But to be a realist, it is an ofering of sweet deals and cabinet holding the balance of power in our Legislature, but if the positions to put one party in place to be government that the B.C. Liberals had just been willing to work with us, we, general public knows nothing about. today, could have a cooperative government representing 80 Te result is a platform that nobody recognizes. Credibil- percent of the popular vote instead of 60 percent. Tey are so ity is shot because promises aren’t kept, and constituents are busy fghting the future that they don’t see that their decision lef scratching their heads, wondering who is accountable for Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5743 the mess. So 49 percent are not getting their voices heard as tainly don’t ask for people’s voting cards when they come being in opposition, and the other 51 percent are confused through the door. Tey help everyone. Here’s a short list: about who they voted for. Tis is a far cry from 100 percent workers compensation claims; senior care advocacy; Med- of the voices being heard. ical Services Plan help; water licences; road, bridge and When we look at every vote counting in a PR world, we infrastructure; wildlife management issues; land access have to look at all those fringe parties that will be given life, issues. I could go on. with the prospect that they could possibly join us here in As a matter of fact, the only time every vote doesn’t the Legislature as long as they can run candidates across the count in my riding is when I’m forbidden to talk to region- province and come in ffh or sixth place — enough just to al staf by orders from headquarters on that side of the get themselves in. room. I take pride in representing my constituents, each Tere are 26 registered parties in B.C. I would dare say and every one of them. I would certainly hope those on the that you would have many of them running in a PR envir- other side do as well. onment when they are tantalized by the thought that every [11:35 a.m.] vote counts. In Kootenay East, every person may not exactly get what For example, there are many that would love to see the they want. No one ever will. But I can assure you that every Vancouver Island Party run, for the Island of Vancouver to vote counts. I will quickly add that this debate is more than be independent. Tat’s an actual party. More perhaps to see fve minutes, and a publicly televised debate is necessary the Communist Party of B.C. get a few seats. Tat’s an actual between the Premier and the opposition leader. registered party. I’m sure the Work Less Party of B.C. would Come on, Premier. What are you afraid of? get some votes, because who doesn’t want to work less? Tat’s an actual registered party. Marijuana is high in the news R. Leonard: It is a great privilege for me to stand here cycle these days — pun intended — so the Marijuana Party today to speak to the member for Burnaby North’s resolution of B.C. is bound to spark some interest here and there across that this House support an electoral system where every vote the province. counts and where the percentage of seats in the Legislature Maybe some new parties would come into play, like the refects the percentage of popular vote. anti-immigration parties. Tese far-right parties are gaining I grew up believing in the fairness of democracy. We exer- a lot of strength across the globe. cise democracy when we vote. Te result of that vote should All these parties will give voters across the province more make a diference, or why would we bother? Te fact is voter choice and allow their voice to count. But not all will make turnout is on the decline. On that point alone, we should be the 5 percent threshold that is in place to verify their legitim- concerned in this House. acy to sit here in the Legislature. What about all these votes Te voting system in place today doesn’t ensure a govern- that are cast aside and not recognized? What about their ment that will have an ear to the concerns of the people of voice? Do their voices count? Nope. Too bad. Teir voices the province. Te result of a citizens vote may make a difer- are tossed into the trash bin. Tis could technically be 10 ence, but maybe not. In fact, in every election but one in the percent or more of the electorate voices wasted. last 90 years, the majority of voters did not have a govern- When you give oxygen to one-issue parties and more ment that refected their values and perspectives. choice, be careful what you ask for. Tere are many examples “Every vote counts” doesn’t simply mean that every vote is happening right now across the world: in Germany, as the counted on election night. It means that every voter’s choice member opposite said; Sweden; New Zealand; Northern Ire- at the ballot box translates into a voice in this Legislature — land; and Italy, where choice and a fctitious promise that a voice that is expressing their values and their perspectives every vote counts not only is untrue but is hollowing out the on government and the laws of British Columbia. centre of our political spectrum and giving to the extreme During the fall session of the Legislature, our new govern- sides of lef and right. ment took the frst of two steps to grow the integrity of our When I think of frst-past-the-post and hear the catcalls democracy. We started by banning big money from politics from those that oppose it and say my voice doesn’t count so that the voice of the people will be the voice of govern- because my party never gets in, I say that is simply not true. ment, not drowned out by the power and infuence of big I’m not sure what the MLAs on the other side of the foor business and organizations. are doing. When I’ve talked to my fellow comrades over here, In a second step, the people of British Columbia deserve they ensure me they have a constituency ofce that works to have every person’s vote count and have the diversity of for the people of their region, no matter what their political B.C. refected in the decisions of government. Government stripe. We all have constituency assistants in the Legislature that is powered by the people has so much potential to create this week. Is the other side of the House telling this House a better world for all. that our assistants are not doing their job properly? Democracy is not a static thing. It responds to the pres- I love and appreciate my CAs. Tey have a grueling job sures and circumstances of the day. Early Canada was ruled of tackling complaints, concerns and communications all by the family compact, an elite and empowered group of day long. Tey are in constant damage control. Tey cer- businessmen and leaders who focused on their business 5744 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 interests and not on things that mattered to the vast majority proportional representation, Metro Vancouver’s population of citizens — things like roads and schools. of 2.5 million would dominate the remaining people Te desire for a more representative government grew. In scattered throughout the province. In efect, Canada’s third- the 1830s, democratic reform was sought through revolu- largest metropolitan city, confned in an area of just 2,700 tion. Although it was defeated, the people had their way. Te square kilometres, would dictate to a province bigger than family compact was undone. the United Kingdom, Ireland, Belgium, Luxembourg and Even with the family compact gone, Canada’s electoral northern half of France combined. All provincial resources system continued to be restrictive. Only landowners had would go towards servicing the Lower Mainland, simply the vote. Voters had to be able to read English. Te vast because that’s where the largest percentage of votes are. number of new Canadians who laboured for small wages I know this will ofend hard-core supporters who claim and didn’t own property pushed for a voice. Ten the suf- that proportional representation will signal an end to fragette movement that we talked about last week brought poverty and public dissatisfaction with government and the vote for women. cease the threat of a major earthquake striking the west Embarrassingly, until 1960, Indigenous people were not coast. Naturally, none of these things will come to pass, but allowed to vote without giving up their treaty rights or status. those calling for a major overhaul of the way we choose gov- Our democracy, obviously, has not been static. Looking ernment want you to take a leap of faith. back, it’s easy to see that it needed to change, and it did I fnd this rather ironic, because critics of our current elec- change for the better. toral system are the very same ones who formed a minority Te original frst-past-the-post system was built on two government afer the last election. It was, in fact, our current parties. In our 2017 provincial election, I counted 19 parties system that allowed two parties to combine their percentage in B.C. vying for our vote. I hear there are more. It is this cir- of the popular vote in order to form a coalition. cumstance that results in frst-past-the-post serving up 100 Proportional representation will change all that. No percent of the power to governments that have, for all but longer will a citizen choose the best candidate to serve as one since 1928, represented less than 50 percent of the will their local representative. Political parties will instead of the voters. choose who gets elected based on party lists. Local represen- Today’s government does represent a majority with more tatives will cease to exist. Individual citizens have the most than 57 percent of voters having the balance of power. Tat’s to lose, and political parties have the most to gain. because in this minority situation, two parties formally Before I rufe too many feathers on the substance of pro- agreed on how to work together, and that’s what people are portional representation, I should convey the concerns of longing for. Just like a good marriage, you can disagree, but many of my constituents who wonder why this referendum you work it out. was not held in conjunction with local elections last Sat- Speaking of minority governments, I think it is also worth urday. It would have made a lot of sense and perhaps encour- shining a light on the fact that good things do happen when aged more people to participate and have dialogue. there is not a power imbalance in government. It was a If you look at the confdence and supply agreement signed minority government that produced our proud legacy pro- by the NDP and the Green Party, it actually called for the grams medicare and the Canada Pension Plan — world- referendum to be held in conjunction with the 2018 civic renowned programs that truly defne Canada. elections. Instead, two parties that pride themselves as being [11:40 a.m.] very modern and on the leading edge of technology chose to Democracy should fairly express our values, and those use snail mail. values should shape the democratic electoral system in B.C., Why is that? And why is there no minimum threshold for where the percentage of seats in the Legislature refects participation? I thought supporters of proportional repres- everyone’s vote. Tat’s fair, and it works to make every vote entation were pro-democracy and would welcome the par- truly count. ticipation of more voters. Only 57 percent of eligible voters turned out for the last provincial election, and given the fact D. Barnett: I am glad to participate in this debate, because that the vast majority of B.C. voters are unaware that we are constituents in my riding of Cariboo-Chilcotin have the already several months into the referendum campaign peri- most to lose under proportional representation. My riding od, the prospect of high voter turnout for a mail-in ballot is would be one of the current rural and northern constituen- actually low. cies that would be lumped together into a few giant ridings Te current Premier almost promised a yes-or-no referen- that would be dominated by the majority of the population dum. Tis way, voters would be able to express a clear choice. concentrated in the Lower Mainland. Te referendum question is so complicated most people If anyone doubts this is going to happen, just look at the won’t be able to discern the diference between dual-member wording of the motion we have before us: “that this House proportional, mixed-member proportional and whatever the support an electoral system…where the percentage of seats heck rural-urban proportional is. in the legislature refects the percentage of popular vote.” When will the Premier stand up and have a debate with You don’t need a Droop formula to fgure out that under Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5745 the Leader of the Ofcial Opposition? Many people may just I want to speak just briefy…. We met with a group of elect not to participate, and that would be a shame. teachers last week. Tere was a panel of us from all three [11:45 a.m.] parties. Tese teachers echoed the comments that we hear all the time about what happens in this chamber, particularly S. Furstenau: I’m happy to stand up to speak in favour of during question period — that they walked away feeling very the motion today on proportional representation. We in B.C. cynical about the politics and governance in B.C. because right now have the opportunity to join over 90 democracies they saw shouting and yelling. around the world, including 85 percent of OECD countries I think that what we want to foster is a healthier, kinder that operate under a proportional representation system. culture of politics. Proportional representation that brings us I think it’s best to start on the problems to be solved. We’ve to a place where political parties need to work across party heard a lot about votes counting and being counted. Let’s get lines certainly fosters a better culture of politics. into that. At the riding level, because there are ofen four, fve, six [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] people on a ballot, the person elected to be MLA can be elected with as little as 35, 33, 32 percent of the vote, which Finally, what does proportional representation ofer us in means that, say, at 35 percent, 65 percent of people in the rid- terms of a long-term view of how governance and policies ing did not vote for that MLA. So yes, on election night, their happen in this province? Well, under frst-past-the-post, votes are counted. But afer election night, they don’t count what tends to happen is too much focus on swing ridings towards anything in terms of what happens in the Legis- and swing votes and not enough focus on long-term policies. lature. Te 35 percent of voters who voted for the MLA who In the world today, right now, in the wake of the IPCC gets elected — their votes count towards what happens in the report on what is going to be happening in our world over Legislature. Te 65 percent of voters who didn’t vote for that the next 20, 50, 100 years — devastating impacts from cli- person — their votes don’t count. mate change that have failed to be met, particularly by coun- Next, at a provincial level, how does this translate? Tose tries that are operating under frst-past-the-post and not 35 percent, sometimes 40 percent, thresholds at the riding representing what the will of the people want in Canada and level translate to 39 to 40 percent of the popular vote that in B.C. — the majority of people want to see action on cli- will deliver to one party 100 percent of power, a majority of mate change. Tey have not seen that under frst-past-the- seats and a four-year mandate, during which they can push post government, and we’re seeing an increasing number of through any legislation, any policy. It won’t matter what the provincial leaders across this country who are saying that cli- opposition has to say because they don’t need their votes in mate change action actually is not a priority for them. Once the House. they get elected in with a majority, they will be able to under- One of the members spoke earlier about the fact that mine and undo that action. frst-past-the-post always delivers an opposition. In fact, We need change. We need it now in B.C. I look forward to in 2001, 58 percent of the popular vote delivered 77 of 79 this referendum, and I look forward to us modernizing our seats to the B.C. Liberal Party and no ofcial opposition in democracy. this province for four years, which is bad for democracy. [11:50 a.m.] It’s bad for the people of B.C. It, in fact, demonstrates that frst-past-the-post does not always deliver an opposition. M. Lee: I wish to rise to speak to this motion. Like many It does almost always deliver distorted results based on other British Columbians, my parents came here to Canada outcomes that mean that the minority of voters give 100 as immigrants. Tey wanted to build a bright future in this percent of power to one party. province. Tis fundamental question that’s being raised here, What else about the system isn’t working? Costly policy for the past year, on the basis of power — how did we come lurches. One government comes in, undoes all the policies of to this? It was not about electoral reform. It was about what the previous government and costs us an enormous amount issue would bring together the current government with the of money. We’re seeing that play out very much right now support of the three Green Party members. Tis hasn’t been in Ontario, where, literally, the contracts that are being can- the sort of comprehensive approach to electoral reform that celled are going to cost in the billions for the taxpayers of you would expect for British Columbia. Ontario. Under our current frst-past-the-post system, across We hear about the idea of deal-making, which I think this province, we have the opportunity to form strong can be a pretty cynical interpretation of what can happen majority governments, majority governments that win the under minority governments when parties and elected majority of support from British Columbians. We need to people come together, fnd their common ground, recog- fnd more balance in this House. But the parties that do nize that they have shared values and put forward policies that are the ones that are able to provide to voters in this and legislation that actually represent the desire and will province the broadest set of policies, that fnd the right of the majority of people that they represent. Tis is much balance among all the issues that we talk about in this better for democracy. House every day: environmental, health, education, eco- 5746 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018 nomic, mental health, our relationship with Indigenous in our House and, therefore, 100 percent of the power? How peoples, to name a number. Tese are all issues that we is this democracy? have to deal with as political parties. Look at the recent elections in Ontario and Quebec. Doug To form that consensus, to forge that plan for the province Ford’s Conservative Party became government with 40 per- for the next four years, to win that mandate — that comes cent of the vote. In Quebec, the Coalition Avenir Québec apart when we start to divide this House more by single- won a majority of seats in the National Assembly with 37.5 issue parties under proportional representation. Tis is what percent of the vote. In both cases, around 60 percent of the is at stake here. Tis is why we need to ensure that British voters did not vote for those parties, yet they govern, and Columbians understand the convoluted electoral reform ref- they can govern with impunity, with majorities. erendum that they’re being presented with here. In fact, in B.C., since 1928, there’s only been one majority Tere are so many details to be lef afer the vote, details government that had over 50 percent of the vote — one. that the Premier should be standing up and debating with Surely, that is not fair or right. the Leader of the Opposition in public at this time. Ballots Proportional representation allows the Legislature to be are being received in mailboxes by all British Columbians balanced by the popular vote. It’s as simple as that — to rep- now, this week, yet the Premier has not set and agreed to resent the actual percentage of voting, where 40 percent of a date with the Leader of the Opposition, when that debate the votes mean 40 percent of the power. should be happening now. Of course, I can understand why members on the other Our province has more pressing issues than this. We need side are afraid of this. I can understand why they’re terrifed, to deal with the issues that are facing this province now in fact. It’s because they know that they cannot hold power for the medium term and the long term. Having propor- with a minority of voters if pro rep is selected. tional representation only introduces the possibility of those Now, the opposition hates the fact that the B.C. NDP single-issue parties — parties that resonate with certain parts and the B.C. Greens have found a way to work together. It’s of our province. meant that our government has had to work harder for legis- I appreciate that British Columbians are very passionate lation. It means that we’ve had to take other points of view about issues around the environment. I am too. Issues into account with creating policy. I know we’ve got under around regional issues, whether it’s the Vancouver Island their skin on this because, like pro rep, it’s simply about Party or the Rural B.C. Party; issues around religion; issues cooperation, and it’s better for democracy. around ethnicity and anti-immigration — we want to be Tis is how it’s worked in New Zealand for decades. Suc- addressing those considerations as political parties. We need cessive, stable governments that have not experienced the political parties that are able to form government if elected. same wild policy lurch of frst-past-the-post governments. Last election, in 2017, voters did not vote for this current Parliaments with more women, more Aboriginal and more combination government that they have today. In terms of visible minority members elected to parliament. Higher policy lurch, we have, clearly, examples of where the previous voter turnout, especially with youth, which you guys would government’s vision for this province — around LNG and really hate. Governments with parties that have to work Site C, for example — is continuing. We need to ensure that together and listen, where the diversity of voices is heard. even with a minimum 5 percent threshold, we don’t open the But the no side cries: “But rural and remote areas won’t be door — as we’ve seen in Sweden, Germany, Italy, New Zea- represented.”What they really mean is that with pro rep, rur- land — to more fringe elements holding a disproportionate al folks won’t be represented primarily by B.C. Liberals. Te balance of power in our Legislative Assembly. reality is that rural B.C. voters, just like the rest of B.C., hold We also need to ensure that we have the direct account- diverse political beliefs. ability between voters and members of this House and not Tis was so evident in my recent travels with the Select leave it to political parties to determine who represents Standing Committee on Finance. No matter where I went in voters under mixed-member proportional, rural-urban pro- B.C., people had a variety of opinions. Pro rep would mean portional and dual-urban. We need to ensure that voters more B.C. Liberal representation in urban areas and more have that direct level of accountability so they can hold to B.C. NDP and Green representation in the Interior and the account the government they elect and the members of this north. Tis would mean that the rural voices, in fact, would House who represent them in their communities. be more accurately represented than they are now. [11:55 a.m.] We need to continue to fnd the balance of priorities in Interjections. this province, and to do that, we need to keep our current frst-past-the-post voting system. Mr. Speaker: Members.

B. D’Eith: Quite simply, democracy is defned as gov- B. D’Eith: Te criticism by the no side that rural voters ernment by the people, the rule of the majority. How is it will not have a local representative under PR is simply not that the present frst-past-the-post system allows parties that true. All three pro rep systems that are proposed will contin- receive 38 to 40 percent of the vote to get a majority of seats ue to have local representation in rural areas. Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5747

Te no side is simply resorting to fearmongering and mis- Interjections. leading statements to confuse voters. Tis fearmongering by the B.C. Liberals comes up again with fringe parties. You’d Mr. Speaker: Members. fgure there’s a Nazi under every seat, under every desk here. But there’s a minimum threshold of 5 percent, and it’s very B. D’Eith: …is that pro rep will make democracy stronger difcult to meet that. by increasing voter turnout; by ensuring that the popular Just look at the last election. Te Conservative Party, a vote is represented in this House; by increasing the number mainstream party, received less than 1 percent of the vote. of women, Aboriginals and visible minorities; by making Tere are 13 other parties, and they received less than 1 per- parties work together to create better, more refective policy. cent of the vote. It’s very hard to get a threshold of 5 percent. I am actually excited that B.C. will have the chance to vote If people aren’t happy with the change, they have a chance on pro rep over the coming weeks. Tis is an opportunity for to confrm pro rep and go back to frst-past-the-post with a B.C. to show true leadership on electoral reform. We’ve got second referendum, and that second referendum will be no big money out of politics. Now let’s take the next step. Put later than 13 years. people in the centre of politics, and vote yes for pro rep.

Interjection. B. D’Eith moved adjournment of debate.

B. D’Eith: Once again, the B.C. Liberals are saying 12 Motion approved. years. In fact, that’s not true. Te second referendum will be no more than fve years afer the frst pro rep election. Again, Hon. C. James moved adjournment of the House. they’re misleading the voters. Tey said the system is com- plicated, but it’s simple. Motion approved. Voters are still going to go to their church or their school, and they’re going to put an X on a box. Te diference is that Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until 1:30 this their vote will count towards balancing the Legislature. No afernoon. matter what they do, their vote will count. Tat puts power back in the hands of the electorate, and that’s something that Te House adjourned at 12 noon. the B.C. Liberals do not want to see. Te truth…

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