RAJYA SABHA ______∗SYNOPSIS OF DEBATE ______(Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) ______Wednesday, March 23, 2011/ Chaitra 2, 1933 (Saka) ______

TRIBUTES TO MARTYRS BHAGAT SINGH, RAJ GURU AND SUKHDEV MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon'ble Members, as you are aware, on this day eighty years ago, legendary heroes of our Freedom Movement, Bhagat Singh, Raj Guru and Sukhdev attained martyrdom. Their patriotism, uncompromising devotion to the cause of their motherland and their selfless sacrifice have immortalized them for all times. Today, more than ever before, we need to be inspired by them and be led by their example in selfless love for our motherland. On this occasion, let us pledge ourselves to uphold the cherished values for which they had laid down their lives. (One minute's silence was observed as a mark of respect to the memory of the martyrs.) ______

______∗This Synopsis is not an authoritative record of the proceedings of the .

333 MATTERS RAISED WITH PERMISSION OF THE CHAIR I. Need to confer the Bharat Ratna on Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia and setting up of a memorial etc. to commemorate him SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: Today is an important day. On this day the socialist thinker and founder of socialism, Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia was born. This is his birth centenary year. He struggled for the upliftment of the people of backward classes of the society and dalits through socialism. An educational institute should be opened in his name, he should be conferred with the Bharat Ratna and his memorial should be established. All the members of the House should participate in a national level celebration being held today on this occasion. (Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav, Shri Mahendra Mohan, Shri Ali Anwar Ansari, Shri Parshottam Khodabhai Rupala, Shri Vinay Katiyar, Shri Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi and Shri Kalraj Mishra associated.) MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The entire House associated. II. Demand caused to Reang refugees in devastating fire at Naishingpara in North Tripura district SHRIMATI JHARNA DAS BAIDYA: Five thousand Reang refugees of Mizoram live in Naishingpara camp of Kanchanpur district of Tripura. Their camp was set on fire on the 20th of last month in which 16 people were killed including 6 women and 4 children, and 100 people were injured. These people are living in the Kanchanpur camp since 1977, but the Mizoram Government did not make any efforts for their return. Some of these people had returned to Mizoram in 1998, they were attacked again and as a result they came back to Tripura. The Central Government should ask the Mizoram Government to take them back. Compensation should be given to the people injured and killed in this accident. (Ms. Mabel Rebello associated.)

334 III. Attack by NATO forces on Libya SHRI P. RAJEEVE: I appeal to the House to condemn the aerial bombardment by aircraft and ship-based missiles on Libya by the NATO forces. Despite the rhetoric about protecting the Libyan people, this act of aggression is a gross violation of Libya's sovereignty and a calculated intervention in an internal conflict to bring about regime change. The West has no compunction in resorting to force to secure its interests in oil-rich Libya and the Middle-East. The Security Council Resolution on Libya has been utilized by the NATO forces for these attacks. Five Members of the Security Council, including , abstained on the Resolution. The Government should immediately demand a review of this UN Resolution to stop this aggression on Libya and come up with a Resolution to condemn the attack on Libya by NATO forces. (Shrimati Brinda Karat, Dr. Chandan Mitra, Shri Syed Azeez Pasha, Shri Pyarimohan Mohapatra, Shri Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav and Shri Ali Anwar Ansari associated.) IV. Burning /self-immolation of persons belonging to Scheduled Tribes, minority and women SHRI RAMDAS AGARWAL: Recently, 18 mothers of new borns were killed in a hospital in Jodhpur. A casual inquiry was conducted into the matter and it was closed. In a separate incident, a woman was killed because of the silver bangles she was wearing in her legs. She belonged to the Mali Community. When inquiry was not conducted in the matter, a boy of the area declared that he would commit suicide by jumping from the water tank if an inquiry is not going to be held in the matter. He remained standing on the water tank for several hours. When the police did not take any action in this regard, he committed suicide by jumping from the water tank. This incident spread a feeling of anger in the whole society. The SHO, present on the site, was burnt alive by the people. He was accompanied by a number of policemen, but they did not make any efforts to save the officer. When the DG (Police) visited his village to express condolences, stones were

335 pelted on him. Why the State Government is not taking any action into all these incidents? It is a very serious matter. (Shri Vijay Kumar Rupani, Shri Kalraj Mishra, Shri V. P. Singh Badnore, Shri Parshottam Khodabhai Rupala, Shri Raghunandan Sharma and Shri Avinash Rai Khanna associated.) V. Brutal killing and assault on men and women in a village in Bastar MS. MABEL REBELLO: I would like to draw the attention of the entire House to Bastar. An year ago, in Dantewada, 74 CRPF personnel were killed. The same thing has been happening for the last 3-4 days. National Human Rights Commission had asked the local police to investigate into the cases they had registered in 2005 and go into the areas like Dantewada, Narayanpur and Bijapur. The 500 policemen went to the Morpalli village, 15 kilometers away from Chintalnar. When the Naxals got know about that, they immediately surrounded these policemen and also paramilitary forces. The policemen went up on a hill and took shelter there at night. Early morning, when the policemen were trying to return to Chintalnar, the Naxals attacked them and three police commanders were shot dead. The Government of India and the State Government should take decision whether they want the central India tribes to live or they want to kill them. Tribals have a right to live. They should be looked after by the Government. They don't have physical infrastructure. Something should be done for them. I want an assurance from the House. VI. An incident in Milan asking a Sikh coach to remove his turban SHRI S. S. AHLUWALIA: Amritinder Singhji, the coach of Jeev Milkha Singh has faced an incident in Italy twice in a week. The Prime Minister of our country wears turban. Several Generals, Governors and judges in our country are Sikh. But, till date, we could not make the Italians understand that the turban of a Sikh is his religious symbol. On the last Tuesday, Amritinder Singh was compelled to remove his turban during the security check at the Milan airport. He was asked to put his turban in the tray in which shoes are put. What can

336 be more shameful than that? On the 19th, the Ambassador of Italy expressed regret in Delhi that this should not have happened. But, on last Tuesday, when he was returning from there, he was again compelled to remove his turban at the same airport and by the same security officer. I am not asking to compromise with the security in this regard. But the turban is not required to be removed for the checking purpose. We can not tolerate the insult of our turban. The Minister of External Affairs should call the Ambassador of Italy and seek explanation. (Shri Shivanand Tiwari, Prof. Ram Gopal Yadav and Shri Avtar Singh Karimpuri associated.) VII. Killing of an MBA graduate from Hyderabad in London and rape and murder of a female student in New South Wales, Australia SHRI M. V. MYSURA REDDY: It was reported, two days back, that an MBA Graduate from Hyderabad who was working in a U.K. based Internet web hosting provider as Accounts Manager, was burnt to death. The house in which he was staying was set ablaze by the son of his landlord. There was a dispute between son and landlord. To settle the score, he burnt the house. It is unfortunate that even though the mishap occured in the first week of March, the Police informed his parents only two days back. In a separate incident, a 24- year Indian student was raped and murdered in Croydon suburb of New South Wales in Australia. These two incidents have brought to the fore, again, the security of Indians who are studying and working abroad. This shows the failure of our Embassies in protecting the Indians who are working or who are studying abroad. The Minister should instruct our Embassies to take steps for protecting the Indians and for also taking appropriate action against those who are involved in dereliction of duty. THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI S. M. KRISHNA): The welfare and the wellbeing of Indian students who have gone to various countries to pursue their studies, is of utmost

337 importance to the Government of India. Whenever incidents of this kind have been reported, we have immediately taken it up with all the seriousness that it deserves so that such incidents do not occur again. We always take up this issue with the Ambassadors and then our Ambassadors take it up with the respective Governments outside the country. I will certainly take up the serious issue with the Australian Government. The Government will also pay serious attention towards the issue pertaining to the Sikh community. The turban, that Sikhs wear in the country, shows the majesty of India. It is not a piece of cloth; but a symbol of the nation. So, we attach the greatest respect to the turban that our Sikh brethren wear. Whenever there is an insult to that, we take it as a national insult. (Shri M. Venkaiah Naidu associated.) VIII. Concern over issue of illegal experience certificate by Railway Planning Division to companies which have not executed any Railway works SHRI R.C. SINGH: It came to light yesterday that some officials in the Planning Division of the South Central Railway in collusion with private companies are issuing fake Experience Certificates. It is the responsibility of the Railway Engineering Division to supervise the execution of railway works by contractors. When the works are completed, they issue certificate to the contractor about the performance of his work. When the contractor submits tenders for the other contracts, this very experience certificate becomes the basic document for winning the tenders. The fake experience certificate came to light when a cement factory took permission from the Railways to construct a private railway line for its use in the vicinity of Jaggiahapeta-Mellacheruvu, and gave it to a private company. The Railway has nothing to do with the private railway line, except giving permission to take up the work. But, the higher officials in the Railway Planning Division of the South Central Railway issued fake experience certificate, in collusion with the contractor. The Railway Planning Division has no authority to issue such a certificate. The contractor, based on this certificate, got

338 another contract in Punjab. But, the second successful bidder in this tender got doubt and lodged a complaint. Then, the Railway Vigilance Department and the CBI took action and found that the complaint was genuine. They seized the documents and found that the fake experience certificate had been issued to the contractor by the Chief Operations Manager, office of the Railway Planning Division. ______GOVERNMENT BILL- WITHDRAWN The Labour Laws (Exemption from Furnishing Returns and Maintaining Registers by Certain Establishments) Amendment and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill, 2005 ______GOVERNMENT BILLS -INTRODUCED I. The Labour Laws (Exemption from Furnishing Returns and Maintaining Registers by Certain Establishments) Amendment Bill, 2011 II. The Mines (Amendment) Bill, 2011 III. The Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Bill, 2011 ______The Repatriation of Prisoners (Amendment) Bill, 2011 THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P.CHIDAMBARAM), moving the motion for consideration of the Bill, said: The Repatriation of Prisoners Act, 2003, provides for the transfer of certain prisoners from India to a country or places outside India and from a country or a place outside India into India. The Act came into force on the 1st of January, 2004. Under Section 5, sub- section 2, clause 3 of the Act, the phrase ‘martial law’ was obviously inappropriate. The correct phrase is ‘military law’. This mistake crept in when the Bill was drafted and introduced and debated in

339 Parliament. We wish to replace the phrase ‘martial law’ by the words ‘military law’. SHRI AVINASH RAI KHANNA: The scope of the Bill is very wide because Indians are anxious when human rights are violated in the country. But, the Government is not anxious about the Indians who live in the foreign countries and whose human rights are being violated. Whenever a foreign prisoner is caught in India, we try our best to repatriate him at the earliest. But, in case of prisoners of , as they give their wrong names and addresses, it is difficult to repatriate them to their country. We should develop a mechanism by which we can repatriate such prisoners in custody to their countries expeditiously. When they are ultimately sent back to their countries, we have to pay them lakhs of rupees in the form of per day allowance. There should be a coordination between the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of External Affairs. Many innocent people of Punjab and Rajasthan are languishing in the Pakistani jails. There are so many incidents of wrong identification. Some children are sent there through illegal ways by the agents. When they reach Pakistan, they are arrested and punished after confession and a penalty of rupees 500-700 is imposed on them but these children have not been released so far inspite of completion of period of their conviction. The Government do not make any effort to bring them back in the country. Another point I would like to make about Prisoners of War. They are languishing in Pakistani jails. I want that a mechanism should be developed at international level so that if a person is found criminal, he should be put under trial, but if the people cross the border inadvertently, they should not be tortured. Apart from this, I would say that both the Ministries, the Ministry of External Affairs and the Ministry of Home Affairs, deal such cases and so the process should be simplified and there should be a coordination between them. I would also like to know about the report of the team comprising of retired Judges of India and Pakistan who made visits for these cases. A provision to bring back the remains, ashes etc. of those people who die, should also be made. Such cases should be dealt with on humanitarian grounds. I request

340 that a comprehensive Bill must be brought by making large amendments. PROF. SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ: There is a minor amendment in this Bill. We have lived with this mistake since January, 2004. I am grateful to the hon. Home Minister that he is, now, removing this mistake. The process of getting into agreements with other countries is very sluggish. The Hon. Home Minister knows fully well that the agreements with so many countries have come up, but many countries of Dubai have been left out. The agreements have been signed with UK, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, Cambodia, Egypt, France, , Korea, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Negotiations are going on with Canada, Israel, Hong Kong, Brazil and Italy. What about the UAE and other countries? 3095 prisoners from India were languishing in various jails, in Gulf. These prisoners come from the poorest of the poor strata of society. Therefore, we must look into this law from a humanitarian angle. It is for years that prisoners from Pakistan have been languishing in our jails. Likewise, so many Indians have been languishing in the jails of Pakistan. So, there could be an agreement with Pakistan. These innocent people become prisoners as they sometimes cross international border. There is a danger that these poor people may be used as pawns in the realm of diplomacy. Therefore, the Hon. Home Minister should come forward with a comprehensive system of reforms. First, the process of getting into agreements with other countries should be very quick. Secondly, we must treat it on humanitarian grounds, as a human problem and our response has to be totally positive. SHRI MOHAMMED AMIN: I would like to say that negotiation should be held in respect of those people of both sides viz. India and Pakistan, who are languishing in jails. The Government of India must take initiative by preparing a complete list of such people to ascertain their exact number. The workers who go to Pakistan for their livelihood have no protection. They are arrested there and put in the jails. Therefore, I hope that such cases can be dealt with on humanitarian grounds and with proper dialogue.

341 SHRI R. C. SINGH: I have two-three points to make in this aspect. I would like to know what agreement has been made to get those fishermen released who cross the water territory while going for fishing. Whether such agreements have been entered into with Pakistan also in respect of people of both sides who are in our jails and those who are in their jails? At last, I would ask about pirates of Somalia that whether any treaty is being taken up with Somalia. The Minister, replying to the debate, said: The scope of the Bill is extremely limited. This Bill only deals with repatriation of prisoners between countries where there is a treaty. The Bill became Act on the 1st of January, 2004 and it is only in the last 6-7 years that we have negotiated treaties with a number of countries. We have agreements so far only with 11 countries – the U.K., Mauritius, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Egypt, France, Bangladesh, Korea, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka and Iran. Negotiations have been concluded with five other countries, namely Canada, Israel, Hong Kong, Brazil and Italy but the agreements are yet to be signed. The Act applies only to a prisoner who has been convicted in the other country by a competent criminal court. The prisoners can apply for being taken back to the home country. The Act applies only when the prisoner applies it. We have repatriated so far five British prisoners to the U.K. and one more is under consideration. We have brought back twelve Indian prisoners from Mauritius. So, I think, we must give some more time for more agreements to be signed with more countries. As far as the other larger questions are concerned like the fishermen being taken into custody by neighbouring countries, these should be dealt with in a substantive discussion and we shall certainly reply. But, for the time being, my request is that this Bill be adopted by the House and the amendment made. The Motion for consideration of the Bill was adopted. The Clauses etc. were adopted. The Bill, was passed. ______

342

The State Bank of India (Subsidiary Banks) Amendment Bill, 2011 THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA), moving the motion for consideration of the Bill, said: In view of the recent developments in the international banking scenario and for better functioning, the State Bank of India had, with the sanction of the Central Government and in consultation with the Reserve Bank of India, entered into negotiations for acquiring the business, including the assets and liabilities, of the State Bank of Indore. After the acquisition of the State Bank of Indore by the State Bank of India, the State Bank of Indore ceases to exist and references to State Bank of Indore in the State Bank of India Subsidiary Banks Act, 1959 have become redundant. It is, therefore, proposed to amend the State Bank of India Subsidiary Banks Act, 1959 and any such references. The present Bill seeks to achieve these objectives. SHRI RAMDAS AGARWAL: This Bill has been brought only to change the name of Bank. This State Bank of Indore was already a subsidiary of State Bank of India. At the time of its merger, its turnover was 50 thousand crore rupees and it was functioning very well. The banks which are operating at State level are also doing commendable job. The State Bank of Jaipur and the Bank of Bikaner in Rajasthan were also merged with the State Bank of India, but names of these banks were not changed. But in case of merger of the State Bank of Indore with the State Bank of India, its name has been changed. It is the responsibility of the State Bank of India to play a very active role in the social service and come forward to provide loan to the poor and unemployed persons following the policies of Government. Whether the said bank has been established just to earn profit? I would like to state that there can be no solution to the banking business of the country just by setting up large banks by the Government. The State Bank of India should also discharge its social

343 responsibility. The smaller banks are providing better services. They are doing fair dealings. We have to strengthen our banking system to provide better facilities to our customers and discharging our social responsibilities. DR. E. M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN: The State Bank of India is one of the largest banks at the international level in terms of capital, human resources and also the number of branches. The large number of branches of the State Bank of India addresses the needs of local people, rural people and the people of semi-urban areas. In that way, it reflects the pan-Indian culture. When there is a merger like this, then we have to see that employees' interests are also protected. Now, the employees are exposed to transfer at the national level. But, there should be some leniency, at least, for some time. More so, nowadays, many of the South Indian employees in various banks, including the State Bank of India, are very often transferred to the North-Eastern States because many other employees are not willing to go there. But, South Indians are going there, and they could not come back to their own area when they are promoted. Many people come under the reservation category. That issue also has to be addressed. Similarly, the State Bank of Indore employees must be having this kind of problem. That aspect should also be considered. The State Bank of India is following every international disposition including BASEL-II norms. We are very proud of the State Bank of India for undertaking such ventures. SHRI TAPAN KUMAR SEN: As per the policy announcements of the Government, more and more people are to be covered by the banking services. It is not only with regard to the State Bank but in other nationalized banks also, a very active exercise for merger is afoot. The inevitable result of this so-called consolidation and merger process will be reduction in number of banks in the name of duplication, and, ultimately a major portion of the people will be going out. So, a space in the banking areas is being deliberately created by contracting the space occupied by the public sector banks, which are operating in the nation's interest. I request the Government to please consider, the experience of the global crisis. Our country

344 remain comparatively insulated only because the Indian banking system was not allowed to go in for that reckless speculation and swindling. Public sector character of bank is the guarantee of that. DR. YOGENDRA P. TRIVEDI: The State Bank of India should also become big and it can become big by taking over the smaller banks which are probably very vulnerable. Actually, the banks which have suffered and collapsed are normally the small banks, the cooperatives banks which have failed the depositors and the moneys have not come back. The larger banks have got more flexibility. I am not saying that the State Bank of India should shun away from its activity of social responsibilities, social obligations and rural credit. I think the size is important and they will be able to spread outside the country in a very big way and they will be able to help when the smaller banks are in necessity. SHRI SYED AZEEZ PASHA: The Government is talking about financial inclusion. I wanted to say nearly 60 crore of the population don't have any bank account. We are seeing that more than 3000 rural banks have been closed. What sort of financial inclusion are you talking about? The question is not of consolidation. The question is about not having more banking. Regarding subsidiary bank, I come to my own State where the State Bank of Hyderabad is having very good business. It is helping agriculture sector; it is helping in rural development; and it is helping in poverty alleviation. If you merge the State Bank of Hyderabad or the State Bank of Travencore, I think the respective States are going to lose the finances because the headquarters of the SBI is in Mumbai and all the benefits will go to other States instead of coming to our own State. This is another thing about which we have to think seriously. SHRI VIKRAM VERMA: The Government has already merged it and it has been moved here just to grant it a legislative status. The employees belonging to rural areas are working in it. They are neglected in such a huge set up. You are allowing foreign banks not only in the banking sector, but also in insurance and agricultural sectors. You are giving them complete freedom regarding looting

345 farmers of India. On the contrary, our regional banks like the State Bank of Indore, the State Bank of Bikaner and the State Bank of Jaipur were doing commendable jobs in their respective regions. But they are going to be captured by you. These banks used to pay income tax to us. How would you compensate the losses being suffered by us? The employees of the above banks had stated that their promotional avenues would be adversely affected in such a huge set up. They had also registered their protest against it. As you had already done merger of these banks, but you should consider these issues also and not allow hampering the interests of employees working there and also taking care of the interests of Madhya Pradesh. Ours is a tribal belt. The State Bank of India is not going to open its branches over there. The Minister, replying to the debate, said: Members have raised various concerns. I would like to tell that merger with a bigger bank is an on-going process. The current policy of the Government on consolidation is, leave the initiative for consolidation to come from the management of the banks themselves with Government playing a supportive role. The customers of State Bank of Indore will now have access to the entire network of the State Bank of India because of the technological advancement in Core Banking Services. All the stakeholders-shareholders, customers and employees will benefit from the proposed acquisition. Some Members also have the apprehension that there will be no branch expansion. I would like to inform that today, there are over 86000 branches in the entire country and the expansion is going on. On an average, 4500-5000 branches are being opened in the entire country. We want to connect all the population, those who are left out, with the banking facilities. By an ambitious projects namely the Swabhiman Abhiyan and we are going to achieve this goal. To safeguards the interests of employees of the erstwhile State Bank of Indore, suitable clauses have been incorporated. Similarly, officers or other employees who have retired shall also entitle to receive all the benefits from the transferee bank. The welfare of employees of all the banks is being looked after by the bank management and their

346 interests are fully protected. Our banks are all doing very well and they are all in profit. 67 per cent branches are in urban areas and only 33 per cent branches in rural areas. Our thrust is to open more and more branches in rural areas. The motion for consideration of the Bill was adopted. Clauses etc. were adopted. The Bill was passed. ______

SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION The issues arising out of statement made by Prime Minister on the newspaper report on payment of ‘Cash - for -Votes’ THE LEADER OF OPPOSITION (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY), initiating the discussion, said: This is an issue of political corruption. The lifeline of the Indian Parliamentary democracy is accountability. It has happened twice, therefore, this issue can neither be under-estimated nor under-stated. On both cases, Government of the day did not have a majority in the House. Therefore, bribes and inducements were offered to the MPs to cross floor. It was not only mere allegations, but extremely hard evidence which was sustainable in any court of law. Money was displayed in one of the Houses of Parliament. It was a sad day for the Indian democracy because moneys were being paid to MPs. The Prime Minister’s reaction in this regard has disappointed us. Is it on the Government’s priority that corruption should be uprooted from the system? Corruption does not spread at the grassroots. It starts from the top. If the top decides to correct itself, we can act as role models. Two-and-a-half years after this incident, to state and confess that what was happened was a gross impropriety. Unless we come to that conclusion, we will never be able to uproot this evil. The Hon’ble Prime Minister has said that the Cable is unverified and unverifiable.

347 If the Government of India wants to verify, these are verifiable because some of the contents of this and the evidence emanating out of this is a very strong corroborative evidence in a criminal case between a bribe-giver and a bribe-taker. It is on the strength of agreements with several countries that can and ask foreign States to make this evidence available to us. There is a case pending against a senior leader of a political party. In July, 2008, the approach of the CBI changes, the affidavit of the CBI changes and because of it they decided support this Government. The hard reality is that this shortage is covered up by a retail purchase of parliamentarians. It is absolutely clear that you used the inducement of money. Why did a political party support you for a limited purpose? The efforts are being made to cover up the whole incident by arguing that there was a tainted operation made by the three MPs. In fact, they acted as whistle blowers and exposed it. What is the material? One representative goes to these three MPs, makes an offer of cross voting, recorded on camera. The first question will be: who is this man who has come to deliver the money? Check up his credentials. There are signed documents by both the persons on whose behalf he came and also the courier who came with their signature giving their identities and relationships. There are phone calls of conversations, letters of introduction. These are almost like documentary evidences. This was a whistle blowing operation. The MPs were being approached. They informed the party and the media. What is wrong in that? The offence of bribery has taken place outside the House and you have been attempting to cover up this. Criminality is ordinarily determined by investigators and courts and not determined by parliamentary majorities. Parliament can only investigate what happens within the precincts of the House and in relations to its members. Therefore, the investigating Committee should never have been in this kind of case divided. As far as the Wikileaks is concerned, a cable per se may not be evidence but then there is a diplomat. We have to see the content of what he writes, and there are enough provisions in our law and in our legal assistance treaties with the United States where this is good

348 evidence. Those conspirators confessed to him when the conspiracy was on. Therefore, this should be treated as corroborative evidence to this larger conspiracy. This is the case which must be taken to its logical conclusion. The second link is the Prime Minister's statement which is a very important link when he said, 'how did the people respond to such allegations'? It is very serious question of public morality. The question is, does electability or populism condone criminality? If people had rejected him, would the offences stand proved without going through due process? Truth not only has the power, but also has a tenacity that it keeps knocking till such time that it vindicates itself. What happened in 2008 was a fraud on India's democracy. THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM), intervening in the discussion, said: The Prime Minister said that in an open vote taken on the floor of the House, Government won the confidence of the Lok Sabha by 275 votes for and 256 votes against. The allegations of bribery were investigated by a Committee constituted by the 14th Lok Sabha and it had concluded that there were insufficient evidence to draw any conclusion of bribery. One can disagree with this conclusion, but that doesn't mean that the statement was economical with the truth. The Committee has taken ample care to follow the basic principles of jurisprudence and none questioned the procedure followed by the Committee. The conclusion are set out from paragraph 74 onwards. The Committee names Shri Ahmed Patel and concludes that there is practically no case against him. In respect of Shri Rewati Raman Singh, the Committee concluded that there is no conclusive evidence that he offered money to vote or to abstain. Regarding Shri Sanjeev Saxena, the Committee said that the role and involvement of Shri Sanjeev Saxena in the matter needs to be furthered investigated. With regard to Shri Amar Singh, the Committee said that it is not possible to come to any conclusion. The Committee, relating to the roles of Shri Sanjeev Saxena, Shri Suhail Hindustani and Shri Sudheendra Kulkarni, recommended that this matter may be probed further by an appropriate investigating agency.

349 There were dissenting Members who said that the matter must be further investigated. On the main conclusion of the Committee that the matter requires further investigation, there is no dissent. The dissent is as to who should do the further investigation. All seven Members agreed that the matter must be further investigated. In this background, what is wrong when the Prime Minister says that the Committee did not reach any final or definitive conclusion? This is an absolutely correct statement. This Committee did not reach any definitive conclusion of bribe giving or bribe taking. They said that there is insufficient evidence and the matter must be investigated. We are investigating the matter. An FIR has been registered and legal opinion has been taken. Several journalists of CNN-IBN have been examined. Further investigation will be done by asking Shri Mahavir Singh Bhagora and Shri Faggan Singh Kulaste to join the investigation. CNN-IBN has also been requested to facilitate recording of statement of Shri Siddhartha Gautam. I am simply reporting to you what the police has stated. What I have to authenticate my notes for? We will request the Speaker, Lok Sabha, to concur an examination of sitting MPs. The CFSL report will also be taken into account. The matter is being investigated thoroughly, and it will be taken to its logical conclusion. Election results do not wash out crimes. The issue is: did the Government enjoy the trust of the Lok Sabha or not? Revelations made today show that we were always in a majority. We proved the majority in the Lok Sabha. We enjoy the trust of the people. The Prime Minister was talking about trust. We enjoyed the confidence in the Lok Sabha as well as the confidence of the people outside. I can’t say revelation are right or wrong. The allegation is what was done in July, 2008 was not an independent journalistic exercise, but a deliberate exercise. There are allegations that a deliberate operation was conducted in collaboration with a political party. There are allegations in the public domain. I am not quoting from any newspaper or any document. There are allegations that another party was identifying buyers to buy their MPs and this was a deliberate

350 attempt to destabilize a sitting Government. We can debate allegations. I am sure these allegations will also be inquired into to see what the truth is. The Prime Minister’s Statement categorically says that no one from the Congress Party or the Government indulged in any unlawful act during the trust vote in July, 2008. The forensic report is being examined by the Delhi police. The police will file a chargesheet before the magistrate. It would not come to me. SHRI SATISH CHANDRA MISRA: It appeared as if we were hearing arguments inside a court. The entire issue arose in view of the trust motion which came in respect of the nuclear deal. Our party, the BSP, did vote against it. Corruption or criminalization in democracy will end the democracy. This doubt, which has been created should be removed now. Why is this investigation not being completed in a speedier manner? There is doubt now with respect to investigation also. The guilty should be punished. We feel that in order to get the truth out, it should, be handed over for judicial inquiry, which should be an independent and fair inquiry. SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: The context of the exposures of the Wikileaks is completely gone which I want to bring back to focus. Our point is very clean that the Government was reduced to a minority, when we withdrew support on Nuclear Deal. This deal was not in the interest of India. Voting did not take place under normal circumstances. Suddenly wads of currency notes is seen in the Lok Sabha. I want to draw attention to this illustration that the manner in which this vote finally gave a majority to the Government raised a lot of doubts. That majority was important not only for the survival of the UPA-I Government but majority was crucial for carrying forward this strategic understanding with United States of America. That is the interesting why US diplomats were visiting houses of Congress leaders. It was because the concern there was that if this vote was not won, then this entire process of strategic relationship with the United States will be jeopardizes. Three years later we are debating this issue in the House because of the WikiLeaks expose. In the WikiLeaks

351 reports there have been references to the individuals who are not Members of this House. But one of them is a very senior Member of the House. There are Members of the BJP who have been mentioned in it. This is the material contained in the cable. The Indian parliamentary democracy cannot continue to live with that stigma or such mention unless that is clear. Now for that clearing you require and investigation that needs to be done. The Prime Minister has said and now the Home Minister is saying that the Committee has not proven that there is any corruption. The Committee has said ‘further investigation’. But why do they need further investigation? It is because you have not conclusively proved that there is no corruption. The point is that the Committee recommended further investigation to arrive at that conclusion. The Terms of Reference of the probe that you are talking about is not just in respect of the three individuals concern. Hon. Home Minister himself has now brought out further allegations from available sources. The point that I am trying to make is that the scope is much beyond the further investigation to three individuals. The entire circumstances under which all this was happened needs to be properly investigated. The fact of the matter is, many parties had to take action against their own Members of Parliament for violating the Whip or for not voting. Therefore, in this present stage, just merely an investigation by the Delhi Crime Branch or Police is not sufficient. The WikiLeaks information about how they were keeping in touch and their eagerness to ensure that the Government wins the Vote of Confidence so that the Nuclear Deal and strategic relationship goes forward. It is something that impinges upon my country’s sovereignty. As far as I am concerned, that the contents of these cables are verified. That further investigation cannot be limited only to the individuals mentioned but the entire circumstances must be gone into in the light of the WikiLeaks exposures. The second one is on the question the entire argument of crime and elections. You had the majority. But, the point is, how that majority was acquired. Therefore, I think, we should also settle it for once and for all. Let us not link the criminality aspect with that of the victory in elections. That context is the exposure that has come through the cables, sent by the US diplomats. That only confirms my

352 position and our party’s position that this vote was crucial not only for the Indo-US Nuclear Deal, but also to carry forward the Indo-US strategic relationship. This probe should go to a proper investigative agency that will examine all these aspects. SHRI SHIVANAND TIWARI: It is not clear in the debate till now that how Vote of Confidence was managed to get after withdrawing support by Left Front. Congress is the oldest political party of the country. Sitaram ji has very rightly said that what WikiLeaks is exposing about the democracy is a matter of concern. Election is won by purchasing votes. Here question is that how the Vote of Confidence was acquired by the then Government. The US Ambassador did not deny the exposures made by WikiLeaks. This shows that even after 63 years of independence, mentality of ruling class is same as it was 63 years before. WikiLeaks is an example that our country is governed by Whites. Congress has made an impact on the politics of the country. All the political parties are influenced by Congress. Dr. Lohia had said that conduct of the Congress Party will have a impact on the politics of the country. Therefore, Congress is responsible for all what is happening in the country. Exposures made by WikiLeaks are need to be investigated properly. SHRI SYED AZEEZ PASHA: The whole episode shows that exposures of WikiLeaks are not surprising. The country knows that what is happening behind the doors. Though three members committee had suggested for further prober into the matter. Government had handed over the investigation to Crime Branch of Delhi Police. This reflects the casual approach of the Government which is regrettable. The country knows the strategies adopted by the then ruling party. Despite all the facts, Government is trying to hide the entire facts. This is very regrettable. SHRI AMAR SINGH: I was a principal player. I was asked to do so by my political party at that time. I want to bring a court case to the notice of this esteemed House. At that time, the proceedings of the court case was completed by the Hon’ble Supreme Court and it

353 had reserved its decision. Therefore, question of deal does not arise. Every individual has its own level of ethics. WikiLeaks has mentioned about a close relative of a ex-Prime Minister. A close aide of Secretary of State of America had also been mentioned while that person had never visited India during that period. WikiLeaks had also mentioned that a BJP leader was saying that our oppose to Nuclear deal is symbolic. I don’t agree to that. Another member of parliament of my party was also mentioned in the exposures of WikiLeaks. When this case was going in Committee, it was said that Shri Amar Singh is very smart. We are scared of him. He is not entrapped in these things. Kalam Sahab said that nuclear pact should be done. I saved PMs seat by getting nuclear deal done. China and Pakistan did not want that this deal should be done. This is not such a matter for which I should be ashamed of. We should not think that house - trading was taking place form one side. Chief Editor of a big channel did string operation but why that string operation was not telecast? Statements should not be changed from time to time. All Members involved in cross voting should be brought in ambit of investigation. DR. MANOHAR JOSHI: This issue started with the news in Wikileaks about the voting on No Confidence Motion in the Lok Sabha. The issue is very important and Wikileaks gave in detail. The debate has the same content, allegations, which were made during the time of voting and after the time of voting, was discussed during the time and also are being discussed. After the news appeared in newspapers. The issue was whether the corruption was done. Fortunately, the hon. Prime Minister came to the House and made the statement, today, a discussion is taking place on that statement. When the Prime Minister said that he took the entire responsibility for the appointment of the CVC, I was expecting from the Prime Minister that he would also take the responsibility in this particular case. The hon. Prime Minister said that the Government of India could not confirm the veracity, contents or even existence of such communication between weikleaks and Government of America.

354 This statement was not expected from a person like Dr. Manmohan Singh. The Committee had concluded that there was insufficient evidence to draw any conclusion of bribery. It is very difficult to say whether the bribery was taken or it was not done at all. I personally feel that some sort of bribery was taken. I am sure, that the Committee did their best to come to a conclusion. The Prime Minister, after reading the report, made a statement that there was no bribery. He said that in that General Election, the Opposition parties repeated their allegations of briery in the trust vote. This type of arguments are not expected from the hon. Prime Minister. The political turn was given to the entire issue The entire country is worried about corruption. It was entirely the responsibility of the Government to book these types of people. It is very unfortunate that only because of corruption, not only in the country, but even outside the country also, people have started saying that our country is the most corrupt country in the world. If the Government does not take the responsibility, what will happen? Everybody feels that the corruption has damaged the name of our country. The best remedy is to find out an authority which can investigate this matter and come to a decision quickly. This issue must be settled within a few months. Otherwise, the people will lose faith in democracy. SHRI RAJNITI PRASAD: Events which took place in 2008 are being discussed here, that some transaction took place during vote of confidence. This news was published in Wiekileaks and Parliament was disrupted for two days by this news. After this news, a Committee was set up and this Committee gave a verdict. America, Wiekileaks or Tahalka people want that our democracy should not exist. On Wiekileaks report, Prime Minister should not have said any thing. Who, when and how voted, whole episode should be investigated. Then only we will solve this problem. There is propriety of Parliament and it should be adhered to. THE PRIME MINISTER (DR. MANMOHAN SINGH), replying to the discussion, said: Several Members had raised

355 allegation based on reports in a newspaper about purported cables from the US Embassy in New Delhi to their authorities in Washington. I reiterate that it is not possible for the Government of India to confirm the veracity of the contents of such communications. In my statement of 18th March 2011, I had also stated that many of the persons referred to in those communications have strongly denied their veracity. Apart from rejecting the allegations, I have also drawn the attention of this august House to the fact that the allegations were investigated by a Committee constituted by the Fourteenth Lok Sabha and the Committee had concluded that there was insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion of bribery. None from the Congress Party or the Government indulged in any such unlawful act during the trust vote in 2008. We have not been involved in any such transactions.

V. K. AGNIHOTRI, Secretary-General. [email protected]

356