EAST AFRICAN COMMUNITY ______

Official Report of the Proceedings of the East African Legislative Assembly

59TH SITTING - FIRST ASSEMBLY: SECOND MEETING – FIFTH SESSION

Tuesday, 7 March 2006

The East African Legislative Assembly met at 2.30 p.m. in the Chamber of the Assembly, Ngorongoro Wing, Sixth Floor, AICC Building, Arusha

PRAYER

[The Speaker, Hon. Abdulrahman Kinana, in the Chair]

The Assembly was called to Order ______

COMMUNICATION FROM THE to the Treaty. I now call upon the two CHAIR Members to take their oath.

The Speaker: Honourable Members, ADMINISTRATION OF OATH following the elections of the hon. Beatrice Shellukindo and the hon. Dr. The oath was administered to: Harrison Mwakyembe as Members of the National Assembly of Tanzania in Mrs Hulda Stanley Kibacha the last general elections held in Dr. Norman Adamson Sigalla December 2005, the two honourable Members ceased to be Members of this MOTION Assembly pursuant to the provisions of Article 51 (3) (c) of the Treaty for the For the approval of the Report of the Establishment of the East African General purpose Committee on the Community. I have been notified by the Functional Relations between the East National Assembly of the United African Legislative Assembly and the Republic of Tanzania in the by-elections National Assemblies that were held, two Members were elected and they are hon. Hulda Stanley The Speaker: Honourable Members, Kibacha and hon. Dr. Norman Sigalla. you will all recall that the chairperson of However, in accordance with the the General Purpose Committee tabled provisions of Rule 6 of the Rules of the relevant motion, which was also Procedure of this House, no Member seconded. I now call upon the may sit or vote in the Assembly before Chairperson to substantiate and taking oath or affirmation of allegiance

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deliberate before I allow the members to second meeting, also popularly referred debate. to as “Nanyuki Two” and the rapid assessment. The rapid assessment was Chairperson General Purpose carried out to ensure that the Committee (Mrs. Rose Waruhiu recommendations contained in these (Kenya): Thank you Mr. Speaker, the documents were practical, and taking motion before the House is that this into consideration what kind of reception Assembly, pursuant to the provisions of they were likely to get in the two houses. Article 49(2) and (3) of the Treaty and I would really commend Members to Rule 79(1) of the Rules of this House do familiarise themselves with that consider and adopt the report on the assessment, and time allowing, I shall go Functional Relations between the East into more details on that particular issue. African Legislative Assembly and the national assemblies, which was tabled in Before I do that, Mr Speaker, I want to this House on 27 September 2005. first all take this opportunity to record our thanks to the Members of this Mr. Speaker, Members will recall that Assembly. Looking back now at the kind we have been on this path for quite a of work that has been done, I think the while. It is almost 20 months since the Assembly should be proud of itself for first meeting was held in Nanyuki in taking this initiative, and at the same Kenya in July, 2004. Subsequently, the time gear itself up to follow up the second meeting was held in Entebbe in recommendations that the Assembly is January 2005. Following these two able to follow up within the remaining meetings, a decision was made that the months of the life of this Assembly. areas covered during these two meetings and the recommendations that had In the same way, I want to also ask the emerged were overlapping and also House to record the thanks of the repetitive in some cases. It was found Members of the various committees necessary, therefore, to combine them from the National Assemblies who and to put together the recommendations attended these meetings. The first that came out of those two meetings. meeting had committees from the three National Parliaments of Kenya, Uganda So, looking at this report, it is assumed and Tanzania. The second meeting had that you are familiar with the even a bigger attendance from the same background report that covers the committees and a wider representation. proceedings and discussions that arose So those were two occasions when this from those two meetings. Assembly was able to interact and to meet and deliberate with committees The only other item which is extra, from the national assemblies, which is besides merging the discussions and really the theme of this whole report. So, recommendations, you will find under a the experience we had in those two heading of what is called the “rapid meetings enabled us also to come out assessment” in chapter two of the report with recommendations that are you have with you. So this report acceptable and workable since the contains what came out of the first Members of the national parliaments meeting called “Nanyuki One” and the were active participants in the working

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groups that produced the action plans Lastly, Mr Speaker, I want also to and the recommendations that appear at mention that since this report was the beginning of this report. produced, there has been agreement by the Summit to appoint ministers I also want to remind Members, Mr responsible for East African Community Speaker, that during the tour of Kenya in affairs. This has also taken place since July 2005, the Assembly was able to our first meeting in July 2004, and we share this document with the National note that two countries have already Assembly of Kenya at a meeting taken a decision to appoint ministers organised in Mombasa to coincide with responsible for that function. Again, if the tour of the Assembly in Kenya. you look at the report, you will notice that the first meeting also expended a lot Just to show how this work has impacted of time on the issue of Ministers on other areas, I also want to mention responsible for East African Community that this document formed the basis of affairs. So, as I speak, Mr Speaker, it the memorandum that this Assembly looks like a lot has been done or has was able to prepare when we had the happened since we started deliberating privilege of having a session and a on these issues. meeting with His Excellency President Benjamin Mkapa as the Chairperson of Mr. Speaker, I would however like to the Summit during our visit to State say that I wanted to start on the good House in Dar es Salaam. Following on note so that I can get to the issue of what that, we have also, during the year, used this whole report is all about. Referring this document in preparation of the to the title of this report, which is the meeting that this Assembly was able to “Functional Relationships between the have with the Council of Ministers, a East African Legislative Assembly and meeting that was organised for the first the National Assemblies of the Partner time also during the year 2005. States”, Members will note, on reading the report, that there has been very little Since the production of this report, I also change in the area of communication want to mention that the Customs Union between the East African Legislative of course has since been signed and it Assembly and the national assemblies of has come into force. Secondly, we had a Partner States. very important decision which was made by the Summit to appoint a working I therefore implore Members that if this team on fast-tracking the federation. And in fact was a priority for this Assembly as Members will recall, this was one of during its life, that in debating this report the major discussions. The issue of and in thinking ahead on what other federation took a great deal of time action the House would like to take, we during our first meeting in Nanyuki. I can focus a great deal on this area. I say am mentioning this because, as you look so, Mr Speaker, because I will have at the recommendations, they now have occasion to refer to the actual paragraphs to be read bearing in mind what has in the Treaty for the Establishment of the changed since then. East African Community, if necessary, during my presentation.

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So, the first thing, Mr. Speaker, is that as East African Community. I humbly want we left Entebbe where we had to suggest that because we took the attendance of Members from the initiative, it behoves us, therefore, to national parliaments, we went away with keep working towards establishing these a very good feeling that we had reached relationships. a level of understanding, and that we had put across to a wider group of Members Now if I turn to the report itself, Mr. from the national parliaments the Speaker, this report was tabled here, and concerns about integration, the plans that tabling it means that the House adopts it, would benefit the people of East Africa so it becomes an official document of with deepened integration and the role this House. As I turn to it and look at the that the Assembly and the national various headings, I am sure Members parliaments as political leaders in the can concentrate on those areas that fall region, would play. So, looking back at within their mandate of interest, or those the contents of the recommendations that areas that they may have been able, came from Nanyuki Two, one will within their committees, to update notice where this sense of optimism themselves on, and we therefore can came from. look forward to a very fruitful debate.

Mr Speaker, the decision was that we Mr Speaker, I intend not to go on for would deepen our channels of very long, but I want to say that there is communication, and that we would an executive summary, and it would provide copies of this report to the three have been easier to stick to the executive National Assemblies. And as I speak summary, which turns out as a foreword today, I am not yet aware that any of our to the report before the body of the main national assemblies have debated or report. But before I go to the main tabled this report in their national report, let me say again that the main parliaments. I would suggest that this headings remain the concerns. should be one of the issues that we should concern ourselves with as we Firstly, therefore, the first topic should come to our final recommendation. be the relationship between the East African Legislative Assembly and the Mr Speaker, it is obvious that we made national parliaments, and under that no provision on how we are going to heading there is reference to what the monitor what the national assemblies are Treaty provides, which is contained in doing, because we assumed that the the report. There is a great deal of time recommendations on interaction, regular spent also on how to improve this meetings, and the inclusion of Members relationship. of the Assembly in committees of the national parliaments would go on. But Thirdly, there is the role of the East we made a very specific African Legislative Assembly itself. recommendation, which was to suggest Firstly, within the Assembly, what is the to the national parliaments that among role of the East African Legislative the parliamentary committees in the Assembly? A great deal of time was national parliaments would be a spent on this, and secondly, what is the committee concerned with matters of the role of the East African Legislative

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Assembly in the Partner States in the Members, and they are contained under areas of outreach, in the areas of headings. reaching out to the public by making sure that the public is informed about the The first one refers to the knowledge of East African Community? The third area Community matters, and the finding is is the role of the Assembly in pushing that there is lack of adequate knowledge the East African agenda in economic of both Community issues and affairs of integration, in the area of development the Assembly, by both Members of and in the area of political federation. Parliament and senior members of staff within the national assemblies. Further The report also highlights areas of down, it says the business community concern in how the Assembly and the was said to be more knowledgeable political leadership within the region about the Community than any other will provide leadership at the level of the group of citizens in East Africa, maybe Summit, the Council and the Assembly, largely due to their desire to realise the including the reference, of course, to an benefits of an expanded market with a Assembly which should be popularly common external tariff. There is mention elected by the people directly if it is to of lack of knowledge, and even enjoy even stronger mandate. scepticism, which was expressed with regard to the East African federation, Now, to understand the report, I want to especially the decision by the Summit to refer you to page five, because that gives fast track it, following the report of the you an assessment of our Committee on Fast-Tracking the recommendations vis-à-vis the Federation. community or the public that we are trying to influence. I am also referring to Item number two is on the benefits of the this first because it is the one area which East African integration, and the finding has not been discussed at this level, was that there is no shared perception of whereas the other parts of the report are the benefits of the Community based on the meetings where all integration. A number of the people Members were present. interviewed were actually sceptical of the real benefits of the Community So, the assessment was created to integration. establish the status of a number of issues related to the two parliamentary Under item number three, “Reporting seminars on strengthening East African and Communication”, it is reported that integration generally. At that time, it was the flow of information from the a year since Nanyuki One and close to Assembly to the national assemblies and six months after Nanyuki Two. And vice versa had notable breakdowns. although, as I have already Some respondents, for example – these acknowledged, there had been some are Members of Parliament in the implementation of Nanyukis One and national assemblies – had not received Two resolutions by the national copies of these reports, and all the assemblies and other organs of the respondents said that the mode of Community, our findings through the reporting needed to be re-examined if rapid assessment should be of interest to national assemblies were to take the

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Community and the Assembly matters to other bodies, particularly within the more seriously. Commonwealth.

Number four is on the issue of the East There were even comments that the issue Africa Ministers. As I speak now, this of federation was being rushed. At about has been overtaken by events, and we the same time, it is instructive to note are looking forward to the appointment that Members of the Parliament of of a third minister. When this report was Tanzania, at a seminar in Dodoma in made, we were still waiting for the April 2005, were highly sceptical of the governments of the three Partner States Wako report. The Ugandan National to create ministries specifically for East Assembly was yet to discuss that report, African affairs, and we hoped that those while the Kenyan National Assembly ministers would be resident in Arusha, was the only one reported to have and we also hoped that the appointment adopted it. Overall, there were deep of these ministers would mean that they doubts about the current institutional would attend the Assembly sessions framework. meaningfully and more regularly. Mr. Speaker, I referred Members to item On item number five, which is on “the two because this is new information, and challenges to federation”, I will quote it is not necessarily my own words. I do from the report: “The issue of Tanzania not want to be accused of misquoting belonging to a different, stronger order researchers, so you will bear with me. and trading bloc was raised by some of What I am saying is not what I think; I the respondents. One respondent said am saying what researchers found from that while it was clear that Tanzania’s the respondents they talked to, and I continued membership of SADC (the have only got two more points to deal Southern African Development with. Cooperation) was hurting the Community, the country seemed more Item six has to do with the issue of interested in strengthening SADC resources. Those who were interviewed institutions even further at the expense of said the Community institutions, the Community institutions. Similar including the Assembly, were limited in sentiments were expressed with Kenya’s their achievements by resources, and a continued membership of COMESA (the number of respondents expressed the Common Market for East and Southern need for the respective governments of Africa).” the Partner States to put more resources in the Community institutions if they Other issues were raised, particularly the expect to transform it into a federation issue of the process of democratisation by 2010. and the way politics was organised in Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda. There was On the last item, which I have said is also said to be some contradiction in closest to the concerns of the House, the terms of fast-tracking, and the timetable relationship with the national for the admission of Rwanda and assemblies, despite what is slightly Burundi, and the implication this would apparent - including one respondent’s have on membership of the Community description of the relationship with the

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Assembly as cordial - one respondent recommendations - again there are said that members from the national twelve of them - refer to the issues assemblies are apparently uneasy with regarding the Customs Union. I will the Assembly Members. Apparently make brief comments just to highlight some national assembly Members of them and I will start with the Customs Parliament suspected some EALA Union. Members of being potential political rivals at the national level – (Laughter). The Customs Union, we have all been As I said, with the wisdom of hindsight - told, is the entry point or trade itself is you will forgive me for reading but I am the entry point to the integration, and as reading what was written - maybe some we debate this report, we will have had of these respondents had foresight, and the experience of a functioning Customs would want to know who is next. I Union. But Members should note that agree. the views of this House have been and remain that the collection of Customs The harmonisation of laws and policies revenue and its accounting should be a is proceeding too slowly in the opinion Community rather than a Partner States of one respondent. So, I did appeal to affair. The collection should be members of the House to be patient and organised and accounted for at the to look at the issues between pages 5 and Community level. Members will recall 7, because these are views from other that this came up a great deal, especially people who have been approached to in the trying moments that we have had give their views. in regard to alternative sources of money for the Community. If I take you back to the contents page, therefore, I would commend to you that On the issues that were raised on the you familiarise yourselves with the enactment of laws to enable the executive summary. The headings under Community Partner States to negotiate this are again important for our records as a bloc in the spirit of the directive of in the Hansard, and the first one is that the Summit in April 2002, again we have there are ten recommendations that make moved fast as an Assembly in this area. reference on how to improve the As you know, this is now a matter for a relationship between the Assembly and court case initiated by members of this the national parliaments. House, to counter or to address the matters of delays or the failure of the Members who wish to contribute to this Council to move in tandem with the debate have enough material as you can Assembly. So, if a matter is before the see. The initiative and work done by court, I am advised that the less said Members in these seminars is very about it, the better. commendable. On issues of immigration, I think in The second set of recommendations various other forums we have put across refers to the relationship with other the concern that as far as East Africans organs of the Community, which is on are concerned, there is no difference that (ii), and there are 13 recommendations they have noted. There is no meaning for in that area. The last group of them so long as they do not enjoy the

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privilege of being able to move freely details. The summary gives you the between our Partner States. So, again, recommendations, so if you read the this is an area of priority, and that is why recommendations, or even if I was to I am suggesting humbly, Mr Speaker, to tabulate the recommendations, it would Members that we cannot get tired of not be of much help if I am not able to picking these areas up because little has give you the background, and the changed despite the debates on the floor background is provided for the three of this House in the last four years. So, I main headings I have referred to on page will ask that Members to go through 14. these recommendations and bring them up for debate. So, on the relationship with national assemblies, I mentioned earlier that it is On issues of the relationship with other important that we refer to the Treaty. organs of the Community, some of the Besides Article 9 which establishes the positions we have taken here, again, as I Assembly, Articles 48 to 65 provide for have said, very little has changed. There other matters relating to the Assembly, was discussion about the ability of the Article 48 provides for the Membership Assembly to work together with other of the Assembly, while Article 49 organs to support the Community, to provides for its functions. It says, among publicise the Community and to work other things, in Article 49, that the much more closely, particularly with the Assembly shall liaise with the national Secretariat. assemblies of the Partner States on matters relating to the Community. On the issue of protocols, the Assembly has also taken a position many times to Article 50 provides that the national say that on the position of protocols vis- assemblies of the respective Partner à-vis legislation, the House favours the States shall elect nine Members of the use of legislation as opposed to Assembly. I think we know that that one protocols. went on and we have also noted that when necessary the national assemblies One major issue which, as politicians we can move fast. Article 51 provides for need to follow up, is the issue I raised how Members vacate their seats and earlier. How do we monitor what it is Article 52 obligates the national that we say? It is alright to take the floor assembly of each Partner State to notify of the House like this afternoon, these the Speaker of every decision made matters and our views appear in the regarding the validity of elections and so Hansard but we have not actually set the on. And there is great detail of how all method together of helping us to follow these shall be done. what we are doing. So, at the Nanyuki One and Two Finally, the issue of the relationship with seminars, it was very clear that all these the national assemblies: I think all issues that are provided for and this Members have addressed themselves on framework were not being utilised. In this issue regularly throughout the last the national assemblies it was very clear four years. I want to refer you, therefore, that Community matters, leave alone the now to page 14, which gives you the Assembly matters, were getting very

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little attention. This was despite the fact Members would also ask themselves that the Clerk of the Assembly sent these how they are going to be re-elected by reports to the national assemblies, national assemblies which do not know including this particular report which we what we do in Arusha or what the are discussing, which we had worked on benefits of this Community are, and why together. the Partner States should spend money sending you to Arusha. So, maybe you So, there are a number of weaknesses will take this issue now as a priority to which we are familiar with, but they enable Members to go back to the mostly relate to inadequate national assemblies. You are going to communication between the assemblies, the national assemblies to ask them to and we do not want to go into the details take action on an organ whose work they of saying “oh no, the document was put have very little understanding of, and in the pigeonhole!” I do not think that is have received very little information what was expected to be provided. But I about in the last four years. So, there are, was suggesting, Mr Speaker, very as I said before, ten recommendations on humbly, that we also have a duty, how to improve this. because if we have discussed this matter and nothing is moving, then we need to The second main concern, besides the rethink. lack of communication, was that structural linkages do not exists. I think Sensitization of national assemblies and those who wrote the Treaty local populations has also not been contemplated that the relationship effectively done. The East African between the East African Legislative Legislative Assembly itself has done its Assembly and the national assemblies best, but this aspect of popularising the would translate into effective linkages. Community through the national During our seminars we have discussed parliaments and through the population how committees that have similar has not been effectively done, and this is responsibilities or similar sectoral despite the production of the fast- responsibilities can work together, and tracking report, which also noted the how this can be operationalised. And as same concerns. But what was very you have seen in the action plan, there is shocking was to find out that Members a very detailed suggestion of how this of Parliament in the national assemblies could be done. are not sufficiently engaged and made aware of the Community integration The findings, both from the seminars process and its potential benefits to the and from the rapid assessment report, are people of East Africa. that these systems are not effective, but the most important concern is that all the So, if the integration is to be people three national parliaments seem to show centred as the Treaty suggests, then this reluctance. I do not know what else you issue requires to be given more attention can call it, but we have suggested that than it is apparent at the moment, and the national assemblies establish that is the background to all the watchdog committees to deal with the recommendations we have made. And if East African Community affairs, or the we were working today, I think issues affecting the development of

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deeper integration. And so far we have no information that any of the three So, if in fact we are going to benefit at Parliaments have agreed to set up these all from the creation of these new committees. ministries, then it means there should be better co-ordination so that the Ministers There is a very good comment on top of responsible for the East African page 18. You know, if you do not see Community Affairs arrive here with something then it does not exist. So what expert or inside information, and cannot it means is that as far as the national keep referring you back or telling you assemblies do not discuss any matter to we are waiting for this and that Ministry do with the East African Legislative to happen. So structurally, things need to Assembly, then in the eyes of the change. national assemblies what they do not see does not exist. I do not think it could Under paragraph 4, this is an issue which have been put more bluntly than that. Members are very familiar with, and I do not have to go back into it, and that There is one issue on which we are all refers to the relationship with other very uncomfortable when we discuss it, organs of the Community. We have and it is dealt with in the middle of page expressed ourselves on these issues very 18. That is the issue of nationalistic often, and some time last year it looked tendencies, which were also cited in the like these relationships with other fast-tracking report as some of the organs, particularly those in Arusha, was factors slowing down implementation of thawing to become friendlier. But the vision for East Africa. It is also recently, things seem to have gone back evident in the manner in which ministers – I do not want to call them thorny – approach their work in Arusha. (interjection) – but I like the word “thorny” because you know I bear the Different ministers come to Arusha for name “Rose” and roses are thorny, so different sectoral matters falling within that is why. But on a more serious note, their respective ministries but the natural we can talk about our relationships with expectation is that the Ministers each one. responsible for East African Affairs in the Partner States would co-ordinate this If we look at the Summit, we did interaction and improve on co- mention, and Members will recollect our ordination. And Members will know very successful interaction and visit to from the very practical experience at the the State House in Dar es Salaam where moment that the Bills that the Members we met President Mkapa and presented a of this Assembly discussed with the memorandum. Subsequently, we Council of Ministers during the retreat in understand there is more willingness for Ngurdoto have all been referred back to greater interaction between the Summit, different ministries. So if you had a Bill the Council and the Assembly, so that on trade, it has gone to the Ministry of the Assembly can get a clearer mandate Trade; if you had a Bill on education, it and direction from the political has gone to the Ministry of Education; if leadership. This remains our position, you had a Bill on Competition it has and it is really up to us to keep gone back to the Ministry of Trade. advancing it.

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want to suggest that we use this On the Co-ordination Committee and the document in preparation of our own plan sectoral committees, Members made as an Assembly, of how we see the very specific recommendations at every Assembly developing. You will recall, function possible, both in our from this report and other records, that memorandum to the Summit, in our the decision to set up an East African meeting with the Council of Ministers Legislative Assembly was made late and more recently at the retreat which after the decision had been made to set was held to chart the way forward for up these other organs. better relationships. But the participants from the seminar concluded at that time You will note, therefore, that the first that the Council of Ministers does not Strategic Plan mentions the East African act on the resolutions of the Assembly. Legislative Assembly in one sentence. I At that time the reasons were given that think one of my colleagues always those ministers were very busy and carries the strategic plan; he can refer to therefore they did not have the time to the specific page. It says “within the give proper attention to Community period 2001-2005, there shall be matters. But since this has changed, and established an East African Legislative with the backdrop now of the fast track Assembly”, and this Assembly was report, we are hoping that this inaugurated in November 2001, so it has relationship will be more strategic to had a life of four and half years almost. enable more efficient and effective And as I have said, by coincidence or by management of the affairs of the timeliness, this Assembly has the Community. Now with that background, opportunity, as the pioneer Assembly, to as I said before, there are now harness, from experience and from recommendations which follow, which information documented, from what we Members will have in front of them. have learnt from our tours and from our own ideas, because we established one Mr. Speaker, this work is not necessarily day that all of us came here of our own finished by the production of the report. free will. What the report does is to document, in a very useful way, the experience and the So, you have a duty to this Community suggestions that this Assembly would to help define what a Parliament or an like to make on the furthering of Assembly within this framework should integration within the Community. And do, not just to deal with the relationships whether by coincidence or what we call with the national assemblies, but as I timeliness, Members are aware that we said at the beginning of my presentation, have before us now the draft report on to provide leadership at the political the Strategic Plan for the EAC for the level to advance our Partner States to a period 2006-2010. So there are two federation, or to endorse efforts towards levels at which we can work. working for common goals.

Mr Speaker, I want to suggest that this There is inside this report a very detailed document be adopted and remain a action plan on page 8, which continues working document for this Assembly to page 14. This action plan is the result and for subsequent Assemblies. I also of the work of the Members of this

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Assembly. Since the merging of this National Assembly at Dodoma – report, you will note at the end column (Applause). that there is a reporting section, which gives you the update on each of the Mr. Speaker may I also congratulate our recommendations that we made when good friends who have just been elected we did the action plan. So, I would invite to join us in this House? I have known Members to address themselves on how hon. Kibacha for a long time. We shared we can continue to monitor the action the Floor of the National Assembly at plan at this level, how we can continue Dodoma – (interjections) - the Floor of to monitor the priority areas that the National Assembly in Dodoma – Members see emerging. (Laughter) - not the dance floor! I know her eloquence, I know her energy and I I have addressed myself to quite a few of know her resourcefulness. So I know them, but I am also suggesting that the that and she will contribute a lot towards Assembly has had the unique the strengthening of this House - opportunity of having been the pioneer (Applause). Assembly in what I call...I cannot call them untested waters; there was an Mr Speaker, sir, may I also congratulate Assembly before and it had its own Dr. Sigalla? Dr. Sigalla is bringing into history. This Assembly must also leave this House youth and academic its own history and its own experience excellence – (Applause). On the part of ready for use, because as we work youth, I think Tanzania may now start towards a political federation, it is very rivalling Uganda for bringing youth into clear, of course, that an Assembly of this Assembly – (Laughter). We are sure whatever form will be a main pillar in that sitting at the exact place where Dr. the development of our political Mwakyembe used to make very federation. important contributions to this House, he will also very much strengthen the I want to commend this report to House. Members and, Mr Speaker sir, I beg to move – (Applause). Mr. Speaker, sir, the efforts towards Nanyuki One and Two and the Mr. Mabere Marando (Tanzania): forthcoming Nanyuki Three were as a Mheshimiwa Spika, may I start first by result of the initiative of this House. It is congratulating our former colleagues, this House which decided deliberately to hon. Beatrice Shellukindo and hon. Dr. forge closer co-operation, in terms of the Harrison Mwakyembe – (Applause) - for Treaty, with our national assemblies. having been elected to the National Article 65 of the Treaty has been fully Assembly at Dodoma, and I have been reproduced in the report, and we are sure made to understand that hon. that history will bear us out as not only Mwakyembe has also been elected as the being pioneers in the particular work of Deputy Chairman of the Trade this Assembly, but also being pioneers in Committee. From the way I knew both recreating closer relationships in East of them, and the way they participated Africa. effectively in this House, we are sure that they will be our ambassadors in the

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Mr Speaker, sir, these meetings, the “The Council shall consist of the Nanyuki One and Two, were used to Ministers responsible for bring to the attention of the Members of regional co-operation of each our national assemblies matters which Partner State, and such other were sometimes deemed not to be going Ministers of the Partner States as well in this House. One of them was the each Partner State may necessity of the appointment of ministers determine.” (Applause) particularly concerned with the affairs of the Community. As a result of that, and I So, I wish to assure hon. Chenge, Mr am sure that as a result of the Speaker, that considering this provision intervention of the Members of our here, and taking into account two other national assemblies with whom we provisions, we look at the preamble at interacted in these meetings, Kenya page 3, which reads: responded very early in appointing a Minister for Regional Co-operation with “Convinced that co-operation at particular emphasis on East African the sub-regional and regional Community – (Applause). We did levels...” congratulate His Excellency President Kibaki for taking up the mantle. Now ‘sub-regional’ Mr Speaker, sir, means East Africa; regional means East Mr. Speaker, sir, the former Chairperson Africa including Djibouti, Seychelles, of the Council of Ministers, who is now Ethiopia and Somalia. But when you are His Excellency the President of the talking about ‘sub-regional’ here, you United Republic of Tanzania, who I also mean East Africa. take this opportunity to congratulate for having been elected in a fierce multi- Article 1 of the Treaty defines ‘co- party competition in Tanzania – operation’ to read: (Laughter) - to the high office of the President of our country, having been “Co-operation includes the here with us, he did hear the concerns of undertaking by the Partner States this Assembly, having participated with in common, jointly or in concert us in one of the consultations at of activities undertaken in Ngurdoto, he has now appointed, not one furtherance of the objectives of but two ministers - a minister and his the Community.” deputy - particularly for East African affairs – (Applause). So, it is my position, and the minister should rest assured that being a minister The last time we paid a courtesy call on concerned with the affairs of East Africa our new Minister, hon. Senior Counsel he is also a Minister for regional co- Andrew Chenge, he expressed doubt as operation in the context of East Africa – to whether being not a Minister for (Applause). So, he can very well be regional co-operation he would be sworn sworn in as a Member of this House – in as a Member of this House. We have (Interjection) - to participate fully and be revisited the Treaty; I have looked anew with us continuously as shall be at Article 13 of the Treaty which says: demanded by the work of the Assembly.

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There are no fees for such consultation - With those remarks, I support the (Laughter). Motion tabled by my very eminent colleague, Mama Rose Waruhiu as Mr. Speaker may I also take this Chairperson of our Committee, and we opportunity to take cognisance and commend that the report be adopted. recognition of the democratisation Asante sana. process that has just taken place in the Republic of Uganda? (Applause) I know Ms. Sheila Kawamara-Mishambi that I have my dear friends here who (Uganda): Thank you very much Mr. may not be satisfied with what has Speaker, sir. I would like also to add my happened, I may also not be fully voice to congratulate our three former satisfied with what has happened, but colleagues in this House: hon. Jakaya what we are saying…Mr Speaker, I Kikwete - His Excellency now. I think as remember the time I was in Uganda in a House we had already congratulated the year 2002 and I gave an interview on him in person, but I think he deserves a Radio One. big congratulation because his achievement is the achievement of this In that interview I emphasized that a House as well and actually it shows that Movement Political System is a single State House actually within close reach party system whatever you call it. Of to many Members of this House – course there were some people, who (Laughter). I would like to also differed with us, but history has taught congratulate hon. Dr. Harrison George us, and has taught Uganda and the Mwakyembe and hon. Beatrice leadership there, and they have now Shellukindo who are now our very good opened up; we now have a multi-party allies and ambassadors in the Tanzanian system in Uganda. Parliament, and we welcome hon. Kibacha and hon. Dr. Norman Sigalla The stakeholders have got to work into the Assembly. We believe that the harder in different directions and in Tanzanian Parliament has made the right different capacities to gain strength and choice and we believe that together we make others lose strength, but, Mr can fight for the interests of the people Speaker I take very special cognisance of East Africa. of what has happened in Uganda. At least we can now say that the whole of Mr. Speaker, sir, I think we should also East Africa is now a multiparty system – congratulate all East Africans, and (Applause). This is a step forward, particularly the Tanzanians and despite the shortcomings that may have Ugandans who have gone through the arisen during the electoral process – recent elections, because most people (Interjection). were watching East Africa and how we were going to perform in the elections. I Mr Speaker, sir, I do not take kindly to think we exhibited a lot of maturity. The people making comments from the floor Tanzanians chose wisely, and we believe and advising me on what to do, but I will the Ugandans also made a wise choice. congratulate others as and when I feel So we congratulate the two Excellencies, like doing so. Jakaya Kikwete and Yoweri Kaguta Museveni, who are now going to be part

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of the Summit. We are proud to also with what is happening internally than observe that we are now in true with what is happening at the East democracy, and Uganda will not be African Community level. And I think it singled out as being a one-party state. So is the responsibility of this august House I believe that that is the way to go, and to clearly come out to ensure that what we are in the right direction as East we discussed in both Nanyuki One and Africans. So, we should continue Nanyuki Two are made a reality, supporting those initiatives. because otherwise they will simply remain as good wishes on paper without We also congratulate all the Members any action from our national assemblies. who monitored both the Tanzanian and Ugandan Elections, and we hope that We would say that the Assembly…for this Assembly can receive the reports of example, on our relationship with the the two observer missions that were sent Secretariat, I do not know whether it has to Tanzania and Uganda, so that we improved or it is becoming worse. This know how to advise our constituents in Assembly has continued to be sidelined, the right direction so that we can build a and as a Member of the Assembly, when true democracy. I am asked to come to Arusha, I keep on asking myself, what are we going to Mr. Speaker, to add to my support for discuss this time? the Motion on the floor presented by hon. Rose Waruhiu on the functional The three seats of the ministers remain relationships between the East African glaringly empty. I was anxious to see the Legislative Assembly and the national Tanzanian Minister who was highly assemblies, it is quite unfortunate that publicised when appointed. So I thought almost two years down the road, as an that this afternoon we would have the Assembly, I do not think we have been Tanzanian Minister in charge of East able to achieve much. Our expectations African Community being sworn in. It is have remained rather in the balance, and about a year since the Ugandan Minister I feel more de-linked from our national was appointed but his seat has remained assemblies. vacant. We had hon. Koech who was very active; he is now missing in action. When we were sworn-in, in November So, Mr Speaker, I get a bit demoralised 2001, there were a lot of expectations and wonder what our purpose is. Where from the national assemblies, but my are we heading to? experience over the years shows that we are getting more and more de-linked. Towards the end of this year there are going to be elections for new Members The Members of the national of the Assembly, and I am wondering parliaments do not even seem to know or where we are heading as an Assembly; understand what we do in Arusha. They as a major organ of the East African seem not to even have the interest in Community! what is going on in the East African Community. We have seen that in the The issues that were raised in both past two or so years our national Nanyuki One and Nanyuki Two were governments have been more concerned very pertinent issues, and we were very

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serious when discussing those issues, but There is also, still, the question of at present I think three-quarters of the Rwanda coming on board. I remember former Members of Parliament in some time last year we were told that by Uganda are no longer Members of November 2005, Rwanda would be part Parliament. So, we are going to start of the East African Community. We afresh to politicise the new Members of have not got any report on how far the Parliament. The same applies to negotiations have gone, and whether we Tanzania. still expect Rwanda or Rwanda is out of the way, and Burundi’s coming into the We have lost a number of Members who Community is also still in question. were present in Nanyuki One and Nanyuki Two, and who had become So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to support solid allies to this Assembly. So, we are the adoption of this report, but on the losing out on Members. I am sure when condition that it is further taken to our it comes to Kenya next year we shall national assemblies rather than being lose maybe three-quarters of those we adopted in this Assembly and left here. had – (Interjection). So, really, I think we need to devise a strategy on how we With that I support the Motion – can reach out to the national assemblies, (Applause). for example, the new national Parliament of Uganda and the parliamentarians Mr. Ochieng-Mbeo (Kenya): Thank elected in the National Assembly of you Mr. Speaker. I would also like to Tanzania, so that we educate them on join our colleagues here who have what we discussed and the modalities welcomed hon. Dr. Sigalla and hon. they should put in place. Otherwise, they Kibacha to the Assembly. I would only will continue unknowingly or ignorantly like to quickly refer them to Article undermining the work of this Assembly. 51(1), which gives them...I would like to read aloud: Mr. Speaker, sir, I would also like to commend efforts that have been taken by “Subject to this Article, an the three Partner States on the issue of elected Member of the Assembly joint negotiations, but we still remain in shall hold office for five years a bit of...we are not so sure whether we and be eligible for re-election for can really come out with a law on joint a further term of five years” - negotiations. I think this is a process that (Applause). was hijacked. As Members of the East African Legislative Assembly, I think I would like to welcome you on board we should still push for joint for your next five-year tenure of office - negotiations and the ability to stand out (Laughter and interruption). as comrades in arms rather than just for friendly purposes. Right now I still look Mr. Med Kaggwa (Uganda): Mr at the East African Community just like Speaker on a point of order, is it in order a merry go round. We are happy together for the hon. Member holding the Floor to but then I do not know whether mislead this House by making an concretely we want to be together. interpretation of this important document in the way he feels?

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again disappeared from the radar. I do The Speaker: He is not in order, and I not know why, but every time I get up to request him to continue with the Motion speak, somehow they disappear! on the Floor of the House. (Laughter) I am trying to bring us home to yesterday. Mr. Ochieng-Mbeo: Mr. Speaker, I was referring to an Article in the Treaty, and Mr Speaker, I was rather shocked when I if I am misleading this House, then I am went to one of the officers of the soon bringing a Motion to interpret, or Secretariat to try and inquire about the rather take it to court myself for proper committee work which was supposed to interpretation, because I believe our be done today. To my amazement, this colleagues are here for the next five particular officer did not have any clue years - (Laughter). that they were required to report to any committee of the House today. I happen Mr. Speaker, I also would like to to have seen a letter from the Assembly congratulate the two presidents who are to the Secretary General, as he always now on board, joining the third one who wants us to treat the affairs between us has been around, and also join my and them, and somehow, up to colleagues in saying that there was a yesterday, no information had been semblance of a democratic process in relayed to any officers to sit in the Tanzania and in Uganda. In the same various committees with the Members. It vein, I would like it to be known that was rather shocking. Kenya has also gone through a process where we separated “bananas” from the Now it was fortunate, Mr Speaker, that “oranges” democratically. Unfortunately one of the Deputy Secretaries General it has brought in snakes in the mix – happened...and this is what Members do (Laughter). not know, that something happened yesterday to try and save this Mr. Speaker, a lot of work has been done embarrassing situation. That it took the and was done by our Members, and intervention of a Deputy Secretary more so by the Committee on General General to overrule his boss! Purpose, whose chairperson has (Interjections) Mr Speaker this is the presented this document which is very truth! A Deputy Secretary General well done. Unfortunately, you can see yesterday had to overrule his boss to that every time we try to make a move, allow officials of the Secretariat to come we are left behind by time. In as much as and brief the Members in the various there are good works and good Committees – (Shame, shame!). Up to intentions with the document, it would yesterday, there was no hope that we appear that a lot will have to be re-done were going to have them. So I am very to get to where we had reached earlier. I grateful to the Deputy Secretary General say this with due respect because I who intervened. believe that relationships should start from home. Now I am bringing this particular issue Mr Speaker, I am referring to the to indicate the fact that if we cannot, up relationship between the Secretariat and to this time, jell locally, you do not the Assembly. Unfortunately they have expect us to jell with the national

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parliaments if we also have some other debating it, even as a Private Members’ factors affecting this kind of Bill. relationship. The most important Bill - as far as we I do not want to say that I am glad that are concerned - which concerns the we are going into a new phase with a Members of this Assembly, the East new Secretary General – (Interjections) - African Community Immunities and which might help better the situation that Privileges Bill, we are told is still lying has been, but it has not been good, Mr somewhere waiting for the Council of Speaker, and there is nothing to hide that Ministers. It is no longer a Bill, it was the relationship between this Assembly turned back into a protocol; a protocol and the Secretariat through the outgoing which was drafted in the year 2002. No Secretary General – (Laughter) - has not change had been made on this protocol; been cordial, and it has affected some of it had never been signed, and that is why these decisions that would have been we were trying to turn it into a Bill. Now made. it is going back into a protocol, and we are told that it is not…I have been Mr. Speaker, I am now going to page 8 following this, Mr Speaker. I have been of the report. I believe that hon. Waruhiu told that this Bill is not even going to be has given us a complete synopsis of presented before the Council meeting what took place and what needs to take which will be held in early April, which place in the executive summary and means that we are not likely to see it in background. There is a chart here with a the life of this Parliament! It is a sad column which reads “Progress as at situation, Mr Speaker. June 2005”, if you start from the first to...the struggle goes on to page 14, it I am trying to show you that if we are reads like nothing is happening in this not linked together and if we are not place, Mr Speaker. Recommendations operating from our units, then we do not are there, but progress reads “none”, expect to even operate in our Partner “none”, “none”, and it continuous to be State parliaments. Why am I saying this, “none” even in places that needed to Mr Speaker? have some action. When we were in Kampala during Page 2, Mr Speaker, takes us back to Nanyuki Two, I was shocked that the what the Assembly has done, but Secretariat, with their Secretary General, whereas we are patting our backs for was headed to address Members of the passing seven Bills, there are four that national Parliament of Uganda, to brief are still pending up to now. them on the activities of the Community. I was told they had done the same in On the Inter-University Council of East Tanzania ...briefing members of the Africa Bill, the story is sad. In as much national Parliament and they actually as we have tried many times to bring the did. I do not know how many Members Bill as a Private Members’ Bill before they addressed, but it was shocking that this House, there has been deliberate they left us in Entebbe at a meeting and attempt to stop this Assembly from sneaked out to go and address our constituents! Mr Speaker, that is

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insubordination and it is happening right been going on for the last five years. here! Mbeo never asks things like these What happens? This week I am told they because if he does, he is an enemy to are somewhere in Berlin…the top many. But Mr Speaker, the time is now, leadership of the tourism industry. What because I believe that if we do not are they doing there? They have hired a straighten this, the next regime might kiosk – (Interjections). Mr Speaker, they just follow the Nyayo of the outgoing have hired a kiosk! And do you know Secretary General! what they are doing in this kiosk? The kiosk, Mr Speaker, is where Kenya, Hon. Members: What is Nyayo? Uganda and Tanzania’s senior members of the tourism industry are sitting to The Speaker: Order, honourable sell...each country is selling its Members, it a common word. destination, after having spent US$20,000 two and half weeks ago here Mr. Ochieng-Mbeo: Mr. Speaker, the in trying to bring a working paper, now East African Community Joint Trade is when they are trying to bring a Negotiations Bill: this was not just an working paper, and you know where idea that came to this Assembly; this they are trying it? In Berlin! Mr. was a ruling by the Summit! It was a Speaker, look at all this. In Berlin; that is directive and a ruling, which meant that where they are right now, discussing when it finally got drafted, we thought it East Africa as a single tourist destination was just going to sail through with very – (Interjection). But they are, and it is a little hindrance. But what happened? scramble!

If you look at the current Strategic Plan Now I am looking at all these things and of 2006 to 2010, they begin talking as if saying look, if we are so disorganised in they are just going to start the process of our Community, how do you expect us, negotiating as a bloc! Would you believe even if you break through, to talk to our that it is going to begin from 2006, in the national assemblies when the signals next Strategic Plan? they are reading elsewhere are different from what we are tying to put on the In other words, what you have done, table? nobody recognises, and that is the main reason why you are seeing there is The East African Community Budget resistance to bring this on board. People Bill, Mr Speaker, a very important are creating work; they are creating time document, already even drafted by this for per diems at the East African Assembly, what happened? It is back to Community in Arusha. This is what is the Council to be mutilated, which happening, Mr Speaker! Something that means nothing is ever going to happen in is already on the cards, presented and terms of growth in this Community! ready to move, what happens? It is on a What we are looking for at the end of the Strategic Plan. I do not know what we day is to have some control and some are planning! systems of financing and having To add insult to injury, Mr Speaker, knowledge that the money that is there is this East Africa as a single brought into the Community is not tourist destination programme that has

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wasted the way it is now, where they Mr Speaker, when I tried through spend all the money on travel. Kenya...we wrote here trying to find out what had happened, and I think I gave Mr Speaker, some of these things affect you, Mr Speaker, a copy of that letter. us because we are watchdogs, but how But what it did do? It opened a can of are we going to handle situations that worms; all the members of the end up being...If you were in Kenya I Secretariat went on a tour for ten days! would have taken you to the Kenya (Interjections and Laughter) Mr Anti-Corruption Commission. You know Speaker, they went out, and you know we have Mr. Ringera there. Mr. Ringera what they went to do? To enquire why is the person who is now controlling and the lake is receding! (Laughter) From fighting corruption in Kenya. We could the Secretary General, all the way down, bring one here in the East African they toured East Africa! (Interjections) Community because it is beginning to show that the reason you find frustrated Mr Speaker, up to now that letter has not looks through the Members of this been answered. I went for an answer Assembly when you look left, right and yesterday and I was told that they are centre is because there is graft! (Toboa) organising a seminar – (Interjection) – listen to this: they are organising a I might be using very harsh words, Mr seminar to answer this! (Interjections) Speaker, but I think if I do not say this here, I might have nowhere else to say Now, I have asked an honest question so them, because maybe we only meet once that when I speak, I speak with in a year. This might be the only time we authority. I have not got that answer up will ever meet to discuss this before we to now. I am a leader in my own right, go through the Budget. But we must say busy handling matters for East Africans, some of these things. They affect the and Lake Victoria is one of them. It will relationships between us and our always be, Mr Speaker; there is fish in it. national assemblies! But what happens? They are organising a seminar somewhere in Kenya, and they Mr. Speaker, right now we have a will ask the National Assembly of problem in Lake Victoria; there is a Kenya, through the Speaker to pay problem in Lake Victoria, Mr Speaker. allowances to the Members of We are being told that water is receding, Parliament to go to their workshop and and it is now about 2.5 to 3 metres that there seminar. Members of this we have lost. We are very concerned as Assembly would like to be told what is an Assembly, and these are some of the going on! Do you know we will not hear things that if you do not talk about, when it anywhere else unless we go to that we are in our Partner States, everybody seminar? So, we need to prepare is looking around and asking you, what ourselves with some funds, because we have you done in Arusha about this must know exactly what is going on water that is receding? We have no about Lake Victoria. And when this words; we have no answers, because seminar is being held, we should be near nobody gives us answers. I have nobody our counterparts in the Kenya National to ask! Assembly to be told why the water is receding from Lake Victoria.

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An advertisement was put for one of the Mr. Speaker, when you talk about these positions for a job which had apparently things, they sound like maybe somebody not been sanctioned by the Council of is witch-hunting. I have learnt never to Ministers. But there was a recruitment witch-hunt. I have learnt over the years exercise which had gone on: there was a that as a politician, always have no short-listing and people had been called permanent friends but have friends, do in for interviews, but all of a sudden the not have permanent enemies but have interviews were cancelled. enemies. So, in this instance, I will have enemies and my enemies, though not One of my constituents came to me permanent, will be in the Secretariat. because one of his constituents had been short-listed for the job, but the job If we do not jell here, Mr Speaker, we interview had now been cancelled and he cannot jell with our counter parts, and I only received a little e-mail from a am beginning to wonder what happens junior clerk from the Secretariat telling behind our backs when they are talking him that this thing was cancelled until to the Members of our national further notice. By the way, this was parliaments when we are not there! No again a subject of a letter to the Editor in wonder our constituents now look back the East African Standard in Kenya! and think we…Mr Speaker, these are the main reasons. This is why if we do not I could not help my constituent; I could speak with one tongue, and if we do not not answer why a job that had been duly do things together and support each advertised and people short-listed and other like I have seen this Assembly called to come for interviews was all of a supporting the Secretariat on the sudden cancelled! Now, after digging a Budget...the Assembly has stood very little bit further, as I normally do, Mr firmly to support the Secretariat in terms Speaker, is when I discovered that this of hiring staff, getting the right staff - job vacancy advertisement was not even and they have quite a few - but when it sanctioned! Somebody here went ahead comes to the Assembly, they say we and started the recruitment process have got what we want so why should without authority from the Council of we worry about the others! This is what Ministers! we get from the grapevines. As a Member, I would like to support Just the other day…there is something and protect my Secretariat, but you see, that is happening, and because we are if you do not know, you do not support. part and parcel of the Community, You see somebody burning but then you sometimes our constituents, the do not know how to handle it. All I am Members of our national parliaments, saying, Mr Speaker, is that there has got come to us with their problems. So a to be cordial relationships between the constituent come to me, Mr Speaker, few Members here and the few members about something that happened here at there. That where we have come from the Secretariat, which maybe slipped my and where we are going now is going to mind. be more tedious than where we have come from. At least we were only having teething problems, now the game

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is changing. The game is changing national parliaments, debate it and their because some of us might never see resolutions together with ours brought in inside this House again, because I have for further consideration in Nanyuki nothing to show my constituents! Three in Zanzibar – (Interjection). (Interjection and Laughter) Well I do not have to be in the House Mr. Speaker, as much we have tried so Business Committee to know this, but I desperately to produce work, so that I think it is a known fact that we had can at least improve my curriculum vitae agreed that we are going to Zanzibar. to be able to come back to this House, it Whatever the date, that is not my is gone to naught! And that makes me business. My business is to note that we become like hon. Michuki in Kenya; to agreed that we are going to Zanzibar, become like a snake because I know that and I am only giving recommendations is my life at stake! (Laughter) If my life that when we do go to Zanzibar in a not- is at stake, and I find somebody rattling, too-far future, because we do not have I bite. long to be here, Mr Speaker – (Laughter) - and so that when we leave our two So, I am saying that we need to work colleagues to continue – (Laughter) - the together from within to be able to go war we started with the new ones that without. If we are going to be dealing are coming in and some of us who might with the last blank column, “progress as be able to come back, that we will find a at 2005”, these things here, somebody is softer landing ground, and that there will directly responsible for getting us these be good working relationship from answers to make sure that they do not within, and better interpretation of the come “none”. I do not expect that to Treaty so that we also include the fact come from the Clerk alone; I expect that we now have ministers and assistant some team work. ministers, and that even though they are assistant ministers, they should be Mr. Speaker, the documents that our allowed to sit in this Assembly as soon parliaments claim that they have not as possible. Otherwise there is no point received, as much as we can confirm that in bringing them in. some are received, I have yet to see reciprocal activity going on, on our side. With those few remarks, I support the I have yet to read anything from the Motion – (Applause). Tanzanian Parliament; I have yet to read something from the Ugandan Mrs. Sarah Bagalaaliwo (Uganda): Parliament. Maybe they are in our Thank you, Mr. Speaker, sir. Allow me “library”, Mr Speaker. Maybe when the to add my voice to those of my “library” is opened, we will be able to colleagues in congratulating His read activities of the other Parliaments. Excellency Jakaya Kikwete on having been elected as the President of the Mr. Speaker, with these very, very few Republic of Tanzania, and His words, I would like to say that I support Excellency Yoweri Kaguta Museveni on this document, and I would like the his re-election as the President of the Members of our national assemblies to Republic of Uganda. I wish also in the be able to have it tabled within their same vein to offer my congratulations to

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our colleagues, hon. Beatrice in themselves have been a continuous Shellukindo and hon. Dr. Mwakyembe, public evaluation of what we have so far hon. Kibacha and Sigalla on their been able to achieve, what have been our respective elections – (Applause). impediments and the way forward that we have continued to make out to Mr. Speaker, sir, I wish to request that whoever is concerned as to how best the this House applauds and extends our organs and institutions of the East gratitude to His Excellency Jakaya African Community should operate. Kikwete on the appointment of a full Minister for the East African Mr. Speaker, sir, I think that it is the Community – (Applause). As will you duty of this House to continue with the recall, it has been one of the outcries of initiative it has set before the whole this Assembly for the past four years that constituent of the East African we lack policy direction in this House Community in showing responsibility as and also at the Secretariat. I think His to what we mean by regional integration. Excellency Kikwete should be And I would request my colleagues that congratulated on having heard the in Nanyuki Three we should also set an House. initiative in prioritising the agenda for the integration of the East African On the issue of the debate as to whether Community. By this I mean that we need the Minister, if he is not in charge of to set as a priority the economic issue for regional affairs should be a Member of the whole of East Africa to realise what this House, I wish to remind the House the benefits for the ordinary East African to read Article 8(1) (c) of the general in this regional integration are. undertaking as to the implementation of the Treaty. It reads that: We need also to use this opportunity to set an agenda for a mechanism to “The Partner States shall abstain strengthen our negotiation capacity and from any measures likely to influence. All those who are saying that jeopardise the achievement of we should continue to deliberate singly those objectives for the should realise that we stand to fall into implementation of the provisions the problem of weakening ourselves. of this Treaty.” Also, I would like this House to consider Nanyuki Three as a priority for a I think this provision in itself absolves mechanism of survival in the global whoever is appointed as a full Minister village. of the East African Community to be sitting here with us. We hope that this Mr. Speaker, sir, I just want to end my will be followed by the appointment of few remarks by cautioning the Members resident Ministers in charge of the East that in setting out our agenda, in African Community. prioritising the issues, we should be mindful of what will be achievable in the Mr. Speaker, sir, I wish also to commend time ahead of us before this House our colleague, hon. Waruhiu, on her closes its tenure. I thank you, Mr articulate consolidation and analysis of Speaker - (Applause). the two Nanyuki reports. These reports

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Mr. Maxwell Shamala (Kenya): Thank where we have reached, I think we have you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to add done very well in a short spell of time. I my voice to that of my colleagues who say so because in 1984, when the have congratulated hon. Beatrice mediation agreement was being signed Shellukindo and hon. Dr. Mwakyembe to divide the assets and liabilities of the for winning seats in their National then Community, there was only one Assembly, and for Dr. Sigalla and hon. line left there that maybe there should be Kibacha for contesting successfully to future co-operation, and that line was join the Assembly of the East African exploited in 1991 in Harare when the Community. three presidents met there and started discussions about co-operation of the Tanzania has achieved two things at one three Partner States. go. We have created ambassadors for the East African Legislative Assembly in the Starting in 1991 to the year 2006, I find National Assembly of Tanzania, and that we have done very well: We have a they have brought in two people here Customs Union that is working...it may who will carry on the institutional not be working very well; it has teething memory that is required of this House. problems, but I think as an entry point that we set ourselves to begin with, we I wish also to congratulate His are doing reasonably well. Excellency Kikwete for winning elections in Tanzania, and His Now one would like to ask a question: Excellency Yoweri Kaguta Museveni for the Customs Union is in place, why is winning elections in Uganda. I am an the Community not visible? I think the East African, and I would like to see answer lies in a number of things, democracy prosper in our region. The including publicity. We have never elections may not have been perfect, but budgeted for publicity of the never the less I think we are on the right Community. Unless you market your track to perfect them in the near future. product, it will always remain on your shelf. If you do not market this We are here discussing a document that I Kilimanjaro water – (referring to a think is very important to East Africa. It bottle of mineral water) - day in day out, is important in the sense that at least the someone else will sell their product of Assembly is saying this is what we have the same quality. Because you are not done, this is what we are recommending talking about your product, your product for the future and if these matters are will remain on the shelf. I think taken into consideration by our national something ought to be done in our assemblies, the Secretariat or the organs respective countries to market the of the Community, I think it is for the Community. good of us all. I would like to say that all is not lost. There are certain things that are being done but the people cannot see them. When you look at the three Partner There is nothing tangible being seen in States of East Africa, and you look at the road networks; there is nothing being them at the time of divorce in 1977 when seen practically in the railway systems; we were calling each other names, and there is nothing being seen in the

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airways and there is nothing being seen The role of the Summit: Has the Summit in the water ways. Now if we performed to its expectations? I am implemented the road networks, suspicious that not all is well with the something to be seen by the people of Summit. They do not meet as regularly East Africa, the Community would be as they ought to for a young Community visible. But these things are left with the like ours. It does not have to take days; it bureaucrats. They are talking about them should be a matter of hours. in offices and in meetings; you see an article on an item once in a long while; The Council of Ministers: Has the the Community will not be visible. Council of Ministers worked? The answer is no! If the Council of Ministers We shall still find it very difficult to talk is not working at its best, and the about the Community while the road Summit is not working at its best, you do networks are not working, while the not expect the Community to be visible, railway systems that used to function are because then there is suspicion in not functioning, while in the waterways peoples minds. These are the most you cannot get a reliable boat to move important organs of this Community, but you from one point in the Lake to the are they committed? In public other, yet we hear that the French have utterances, yes, they are very committed, given some money for safety but in practice, are they? arrangements in the Lake. We read them in the papers but nothing tangible as far In our first year here, we noticed quickly as I am concerned is in place. that we needed to have the Council of Ministers meeting here regularly or to We have talked at length about free have resident ministers here, but did it movement of people, and these things have to take two years or three years for are in the document here. If the people someone to appoint a minister to this of East Africa were free to move, you place? That is why I question the would not need to have to talk about the honesty of the Summit. The Summit Community because they themselves must be listening to someone, maybe, would tell you this is what is happening who is telling it that you do not need a in Nairobi, this is what is happening in Council of Ministers resident in Arusha Mwanza, this is the business you can do because there is no work! Why has the in Gulu, Mtwara and so on. But we are Assembly not made the East African still restricting people and yet we want Community visible? them to do trade. There is a notion, a perception which The question is; where does the back continues in our capitals that the stop? Does it stop with the Assembly, Assembly has no job, yet we have does it stop with the Summit, and does it generated here Bills from this House for stop with the Secretariat? Where does it debate; that is work! The Executive has stop? I think we have to answer that come and taken those Bills away from us question. There is an organ that is and they say you have no work! It does probably not functioning well. not add up.

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In my opinion the Assembly would have best way but in an haphazard manner done a lot better than what we have done because of one or two things, it took too if we had the support of the Council of long to negotiate and then the passing of Ministers. We talked about remuneration the Bill and so on, we did not inform and someone said “all that those people people but never the less, the Customs talk about is nothing but salaries!” We Union is working; that there are these abandoned the exercise a century ago - problems here, the schedules are going (Laughter) – still no work has been to come out next month and Uganda has brought! agreed on this, Kenya has agreed on this and Tanzania has agreed on this, and, There are pending decisions in the therefore, in February next year, we Secretariat here because the Council has intend to be here; or that on the Common not met for a long time. Even when they Market aspect of the integration process, meet and make decisions, there is no we have started on this and we intend to follow up to find out whether Nairobi be here at this time and so on, these has implemented those decisions or not. things would be carried by the media! There is no follow up in Dar-es-Salaam There would be stories about the or in Kampala. All this is left to the Community, and we would be forging goodwill of the Co-ordination ahead, and then we from here could now Committee or the other sectoral say...of course they would have committees that work under the Co- informed us in advance and we would ordination Committee. This is exactly then tell the people yes, this is what we not how to run a Community. Decisions are doing and we would carry on with must be taken on a timely basis, and radio talk shows or television shows or those decisions must be implemented whatever! when they are due. And if they are not implemented, someone must be We can only do that after the Executive reprimanded for it, or an explanation has led the way. The Assembly is not an must be given as to why a certain implementing organ; it only passes decision has not been taken. This is legislation. So we cannot go out and tell exactly what is not happening. So, for people this is what we are going to do in me, the Community will remain terms of execution of projects. It invisible, and in the political world- behoves the Council of Ministers to because the Community is political - really do these things. unless you are visible, you are not there. These suggestions have been made in If the Council of Ministers, for example, this document, and I think if the met in Nairobi and said this is where the document is implemented, the Community is in terms of economic Community will blossom. The roses will indicators and so on, and we are aiming be there when the time comes. to be somewhere else with the strategic plan, and we intend to be at this point With this, I wish to support the Motion. come the year 2010, or if they came and pronounced themselves on the Mr. Yonasani Kanyomozi (Uganda): Customs Union, that the Customs Union Mr. Speaker, sir, let me also take this was started, though not exactly in the opportunity first to congratulate His

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Excellency Jakaya Kikwete on being them. Equally, on the section on elected as the President of the Republic resources, they have virtually none, and of Tanzania, and also take this this is an area of concern to all of us in opportunity to congratulate our this region. It is an area of concern colleagues, Dr. Mwakyembe and Madam especially given that this Assembly, in Beatrice for being elected to the forwarding this programme and in Parliament of Tanzania, and also take bringing up Members of our National the opportunity to welcome our two Assemblies to participate, we were colleagues, Madam Kibacha and Dr. looking at East Africa as a region, as an Sigalla for joining us in this august entity which has common problems. House. Similarly, let me take the And, Mr Speaker, you do not need to go opportunity to thank you all for your very far. prayers and participation – especially your prayers - in ensuring that at least If you look at the structure of our Uganda is on the path to having a multi- economies and at the interaction in trade, party system – (Applause). you will realise that we need each other, and we must, in the global village, try to Mr. Speaker, I am saying this because I survive in this competitive world. have been on this battle for the last 20 years, and I had always been telling I have been looking at the figures, and to people that Uganda was a single party my surprise, even those economies state but they did not believe it until God which are better placed, like the Kenyan - I hear - enlightened those in economy, are completely dependent on responsible positions and they also the existence of Uganda and Tanzania. realised it and allowed us to have multi- Without those two being there, the party elections. Flawed as it may have Kenyan economy would have a lot of been, but we have had it and the problems because, as you know, more opposition as a whole actually than 25 per cent of the Kenyan trade is constitutes more than 40 per cent of the dependent on one single country called electorate in that country, and it is Uganda. growing. If you look at the structure of the poor Mr. Speaker, sir, I am standing here to and the rich and the income distribution support the Motion, having been part of in this region, we are nearly at the same the Committee that this House chose to level. You will find that in all the three compile this report. I am looking at this countries, about 10 per cent of our report with mixed feelings; one is one of poorest poor only consume less than 3 lamentation, especially when you look at per cent of our GDP and it is completely the matrix from page 8 to page 14. the same everywhere. Therefore, we Issues which are raised there have a really need to work towards unity; timeframe and they have a section on towards being one and towards looking resources. at the world as a single unit instead of being divided. If you look at the timeframe, most of Further more, I am concerned about the these things may not be implemented in nationalistic feelings which are coming the time that we set ourselves to do in now instead of developing regional

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ones. I am looking at issues of, for be Members of this Assembly!” I have example, employment and employment been looking at the Treaty...I am not a opportunities. You know very well that - lawyer, Mr Speaker, as you know, but I and we have already said it before – the have been looking at the Treaty. The Ugandan pilots cannot work in Kenya designation of a minister for regional co- Airways despite the fact that Kenya operation, which is in Article 13, is: “the Airways is the only airline that we have minister responsible for regional co- in the region more or less. Equally, for operation” - that title can change, and it people in the hospitality sector, that is can be anybody. It need not...for hotels and tourism sectors, Kenyans may example, I hear that in Tanzania now the not be allowed to easily access Minister responsible for Tanzanian and Ugandan markets, and Communications and other things is these are problems that we need to called “the Minister for Infrastructure” is address, and they are all areas of concern that not so? (Interjection) Yes, it can which we need to tackle very quickly. change; there are no hard rules! The President has the ability to say this Mr. Speaker, let me look at our Minister who is responsible for this is relationships with the national the one going to be responsible for the parliaments. The national parliaments, in Community, and it is finished! Article most cases, much as they voted for us, 8(3) (a) of the Treaty provides that: do not seem to have internalised the Treaty. Even when we send information, “Each Partner State shall they do not seem to look at the designate a ministry with which information we send. the Secretary General may communicate in connection with In Uganda we produce reports to the matters arising out of the national assembly through our implementation and application Committee. They have never been of the Treaty, and shall notify the debated. I do not know whether my Secretary General of that colleagues from Tanzania and Kenya designation” have had opportunity to get the reports they send to the parliamentary Even that is an escape clause, which can committees responsible for us debated. enable us to have these ministers who They table them and forget them. In have been appointed to come and some cases they do not even table them. become Members of this House with I do not know what we need to do to ease. I am saying this because there is bring these people to realise that we this area of concern that we have got to need to work together on these matters. wait for a Minister responsible for Regional Co-operation to be a Member Mr. Speaker, sir, there is this feeling that of the Council. To me, in my layman’s even after electing...we are grateful that understanding, that is not the issue; the the presidents of our Partner States are issue is to have a minister who is taking steps to nominate or appoint designated by the President to be ministers responsible for the responsible for the Community, and so it Community. Others are saying “oh look, will be. Whether he is called Regional even if they are appointed they can not Co-operation or Foreign Affairs or any

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other name that the presidents so wish, it saw them – (Interjections) - we hope will be done. And I think we should whoever comes will help us to push this encourage, Mr Speaker, the presidents to programme forward, and that the look at this part of the Treaty and enable relationship between the Assembly and us to have ministers who have been the Secretary General will improve so appointed to be Members of this House. that we start on a better foundation.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to touch on a Mr. Speaker, with those few words, I simple matter, which is an area of commend the report to the House and concern in this report; and that is the hope it will be approved, and that the time left. To me, when we come back we suggestions I have made will be will be coming for the Budget, maybe. implemented. After the Budget, maybe we will come once. I expect that by October, elections ADJOURNMENT will be held to choose new Members to come and replace, or some of us will be The Speaker: Honourable Members, I re-elected, and I hope some of us will be intend to adjourn the House, and I will re-elected to come back. The timing is ask hon. Med Kaggwa that he will be the very crucial. I do not know what we first one to speak on Thursday afternoon. should do to make part of these I wish to also announce that we will recommendations implementable. meet tomorrow as the whole House at 10.00 O’clock. I would like us now to sit back, reflect on the contents of this report, select I now, adjourn the House until Thursday those which we can achieve, and make at 2.30.p.m. sure they are achieved before October. (The House rose at 5.00 p.m. and Why am I saying that, Mr Speaker? I am adjourned until Thursday, 9 March 2006 saying that because the perception is at 2.30 p.m.) very crucial. We should be seen to have achieved something out of this report before this House closes. I am appealing to my colleagues to identify those areas which we can implement and really work towards implementing those. If we do so, we will have helped ourselves in sending the right message to the electorate. We will also have helped the House and the Community to have a record which will say when they were there, this and that were done. I am sure it can be done. I hear that the Secretary General’s term is ending, the new Secretary General who is going to come, I do not know who it will be, and there were speculations in the papers and I

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