Transcript of Oral History Interview with Elroy
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Oral history interviews of the Vietnam Era Oral History Project Copyright Notice: © 2019 Minnesota Historical Society Researchers are liable for any infringement. For more information, visit www.mnhs.org/copyright. Version 3 August 20, 2018 Elroy Schwirtz Narrator Douglas Bekke Interviewer May 25, 2018 Arlington, Minnesota Douglas Bekke -DB Elroy “Blackie” Schwirtz -ES DB: Minnesota Historical Society Vietnam Oral History Project. Interview with Elroy “Blackie” Schwirtz in Arlington, MN on 25 May 2018. Mr. Schwirtz can you please say and spell your name. ES: First name— Elroy E-l-r-o-y and Schwirtz S-c-h-w-i-r-t-z. The “Blackie” comes from the ethnic part of our community here — which is a German community and— the word— they mispronounce the name Schwirtz to Schwartz. And that of course is the color black in German. My Dad had the nickname and so did I. DB: And the date and place of birth? ES: Green Isle Township DB: I’m sorry what township? ES: Green Isle. DB: Green Isle? ES: Green Isle Township. And — August the seventeenth, 1929. DB: Okay. And what do you know about your ancestry? ES: Well, very little outside of my grandfather. Oh, about both grandfathers I have a little history of. My — my mother’s father came from Germany and during the course of his last years he fell of a hay wagon and broke his back and died in the family farm. The family had to move off — the mother couldn’t support their children she had. You know my mother. DB: This is — you’re alive at this point? ES: Pardon me? 34 DB: You’ve been born at this point? ES: No. DB: Oh, you haven’t. ES: No before that. But— DB: Okay. ES: I was born just shortly after that. My father’s dad was a heavy— into the banking and farming. Sort of a prosperous gentleman that didn’t follow my father-in-law very well but uh — so my childhood was kind of— what can I say— poor. It’s about the best word to say it so. DB: Did you— did you grow up on a farm or a small town? ES: No. The— my folks moved off of the farm when I was one year old and moved into the city— into the community here. DB: In Arlington? ES: In Arlington. DB: So, you grew up in Arlington? ES: I did. Yeah. DB: Okay. And— do you know anything about how your parents met? Any of their— little more of their background? ES: Oh boy, I guess I don’t— I know a smattering about it. They —when my mother’s father died, she moved into a little house across the local crick from the farm that my grandfather had and of course my father was doing farm work out there and jumping across the crick was just a matter of neighborliness and helping with farms and chores and so forth. So that’s how they met. Course a few years later I was born (laughs) quite a few years later I was born. DB: And did you say your dad’s side of the family was German too? ES: Yes. DB: Yes. And did they have any stories about the First World War? Had they— had anybody in the family served in the First World War? ES: Yes— my mother’s brother was a — was a sergeant in WWI. He brought home many souvenirs, like the old rifles and so forth and some German NCOsabers. And bits and pieces of 35 the old uniform— his entire uniform which was later destroyed somehow or another. We never did keep it as a family heirloom right. DB: Was this primarily a German community? ES: Yes. DB: Arlington? Any stories about prejudice against Germans during World War I? Discrimination? ES: Not that I would recall. But it did— my uncle— my mother’s brother very well because he could speak fluent German. I think that’s how he made his rank when he was over in Germany. DB: How about influenza? Did influenza affect your family? Or this community very much? After the first war? ES: Not that I recall. My— I had had a brother that died of a combination of pneumonia and measles. He was only twelve years old and they had no way of curing either one I guess at that time so. DB: That was probably in the thirties? ES: Well let’s see. I was one year old when he died, so — 1929 — I suppose 1930. Yeah. DB: Yeah right in there, okay. And how did the Depression affect your family and this community growing up? ES: It was a combination of factors. My father had a severe case of asthma and course he was on the farm and stood it for as many years as he could. And then finally during the Depression it was kind of hopeless out on the farm. We did moved to town and— DB: And they lost the farm, or they sold the farm? ES: They lost the farm. And like I say when we moved to town I don’t remember much until you know I was about four or five years old I suppose. But all I remember that what we had was what we had. There was no — no — big money to be spent or anything like that so. DB: And what did your dad do then to earn money? ES: He worked in the local canning factory. We had a little— a little five acres plot south of town which he kind of used as a small little farm. We raised a couple pigs and milked some cows. Made a little bit of hay on a few acres we had. But most of the money came from the local canning factory. My mother worked in a produce plant in town here that — that bought and sold chickens. Provided chickens for the army during World War II. And eggs and that sort of thing. 36 She was one of them that would pick the feathers off of the chickens as they went by on a conveyor. I think for 15 cents an hour I think or something like that so. DB: The small plot of land that your father farmed wasn’t just a hobby farm? It provided for your family too. ES: It did provide, yeah. My mother had a large garden which she did a lot of canning in. She canned chicken and canned beef and that sort of thing — yeah — for our survival, which we — I guess we never missed any of the can goods that ordinarily people would. DB: You had plenty to eat. ES: Plenty to eat. DB: Thanks to your parent’s hard work. ES: Yes. DB: And how many siblings did you have? ES: I had three sisters and one brother. DB: And the brother is the one that passed away when he was twelve? ES: Yes. And the other one passed — my final sister, last sister passed away here just this last winter. She was ninety — ninety-four years old when she passed away. DB: Were you the baby of the family? ES: Yes. DB: Okay— okay. And — you’re five years old — it’s about the time I think you moved into town? And you’re going to school here? Do you remember much about the school? ES: Sure. DB: Grade School. ES: Sure, I remember there was a religious parochial school. DB: Lutheran? ES: Lutheran. Yeah, we prayed in the morning when we — came to school. Prayed at noon to go home and eat. Prayed at coming home from noon meal, and then we prayed again at the end of the day. So I had plenty of religion for eight years of that — eight years of Lutheran parochial school. 37 DB: And who were the teachers? ES: Mr. Tim, as I remember. And a Mr. Zarling. I don’t remember their first names anymore. The old professor's, what they called a professor, his name was Gerlach. He was very stern German type, disciplinarian. He did get the belt and we all hoped that his pants would fall down when he took his belt off to beat somebody else. DB: (Laughs) Did they? ES: (Laughs) No. DB: No. (Both Laugh) So there were men and women there that were teachers? ES: Yes. DB: And, the curriculum— was it fairly rigorous? ES: Boy I don’t recall that. I know we — we course learned the ABC’s and multiplications and all that. I did really well in parochial school. A’s and just a few B’s. I was kind of proud of that. DB: Mr. Gerlach, did he have to take his belt off for you? ES: No, no, no. DB: Okay. ES: I think he gave me a couple stern looks at one time or another, but that was— DB: That was enough to keep you in line? ES: Oh my goodness, yeah. But my folks would never forgive me if I got a whipping at school because they’d certainly give one at home. DB: So— so if you got in trouble at school that was just the beginning of your problems? ES: Yeah, that was just the beginning of the problems— DB: Okay. Your parents were pretty strict too? ES: Yeah— my mother was very religious. She — yeah she went by the Bible here quite often. So she was really the disciplinary. My dad didn’t do as much as she did.