Tuesday Volume 508 23 March 2010 No. 62 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 23 March 2010 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2010 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 111 23 MARCH 2010 112 prison at all”? It would be remedied far better by House of Commons looking at the reoffending rate for those with long sentences, which is much lower, and by ensuring that Tuesday 23 March 2010 people are kept in prison long enough to address their problems with alcoholism, drugs and lack of education. The House met at half-past Two o’clock Mr. Straw: The Government are the last people to suggest that people should not be sent to prison when PRAYERS the courts require it. One of the main drivers of the 25,000 increase in the prison population since 1997 has been that the courts, quite correctly, have been sending [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] more people to prison and for longer. As for getting the prison population down, the hon. Gentleman should direct his remarks to those on his own Front Bench. It BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS was, after all, the shadow Justice Secretary who said that if he could get back to the prison numbers that KENT COUNTY COUNCIL (FILMING ON HIGHWAYS) existed in 1993—44,000 rather than 84,000—he would BILL [LORDS] have succeeded, and that he would be very happy to Bill read a Second time. have that engraved on his tombstone. I think that it would be rather more of a political tombstone were he to try that. The people in prison need to be there, and what we must do is make more effective use of short Oral Answers to Questions sentences. Mr. Carswell: Many of those given short custodial JUSTICE sentences often have drug addiction issues. Would it not help to reduce reoffending if non-statutory organisations, charities and non-state players were given a greater role The Secretary of State was asked— in helping to tackle drug addiction, both inside prison and when prisoners come out? Short Custodial Sentences Mr. Straw: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. 1. David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): What As has been brought out by the excellent Public Accounts recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of short Committee report that came out recently, most of those custodial sentences in reducing reoffending. [323384] persistent offenders have drug and alcohol abuse problems. We have increased by 15 times the amount of money 10. Mr. Douglas Carswell (Harwich) (Con): What spent on drug abuse and better education about drugs recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of short in prison, and as the hon. Gentleman might know, we custodial sentences in reducing reoffending. [323393] are making much more use of voluntary organisations. Obviously, they have to enter into proper contracts with The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor the state. (Mr. Jack Straw): Overall, the reoffending rate for all adult offenders went down by 15.9 per cent. between Ms Dari Taylor (Stockton, South) (Lab): My right 2000 and 2008, and by a greater margin in respect of hon. Friend mentioned that the Government are pursuing juvenile offenders. However, there is a problem, which I intensive alternatives to custody. Will he tell the House readily acknowledge, in respect of short-sentence prisoners, what effect that approach is having in reducing reoffending? among whom the reoffending rate increased in the same period by 3.9 per cent. Those persistent offenders tend Mr. Straw: The emerging evidence from the evaluations to be the most intractable to deal with, having failed on in the six areas where intensive alternatives to custody community punishments and failed to deal with their are being piloted suggests that they are significantly alcohol and drug abuse. The courts, police and National reducing reoffending. I have seen one of them in operation Offender Management Service are putting great effort in Derby. There is no doubt that if they are properly into directing more of these offenders from crime, including planned and executed they can effectively force offenders through intensive alternatives to custody, “through the to face up to the reasons why they are offending, and gate” supervision and better management of offenders, can establish strong discipline on them in the community. which is being piloted in the integrated offender If that works, it is all to the good. management projects. Those measures are all helping to shape an improved strategy for short-sentence prisoners. Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): The Justice In addition, last week I announced a very important Secretary failed to point out that the goal to which I initiative with the organisation Social Finance in respect aspire on prison numbers is matched by the goal of of Peterborough prison, where social investors are to be reducing crime. paid by results to get reoffending down. Statistics published last week show that the reoffending rate among those subject to drug rehabilitation requirements David T. C. Davies: I thank the Minister for that is even higher than that among those who serve short comprehensive reply. Does he agree that the ineffectiveness prison sentences—although those two groups are often of short custodial sentences, which we both agree about, the same people. Does the Secretary of State accept that is not remedied by saying, “Let’s not send people to maintaining offenders on methadone is a counsel of 113 Oral Answers23 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 114 failure, and will he give courts the power to impose Claire Ward: It would be very interesting to see how abstinence-based drug rehabilitation orders to help the Conservatives would do better, given that they want offenders—with short sentences and long—to give up to tie the hands of the police and crime enforcement drugs once and for all? officers in relation to many of the measures that we are using effectively, such as those involving DNA and Mr. Straw: The hon. and learned Gentleman highlights CCTV.Perhaps the hon. Lady should talk to her Front- the fact that the group consisting of short-sentence Bench team and her party leader about changing their prisoners is the most intractable to deal with. That is policy if they really have a strong message on crime. accepted in the round, and a great deal of work is going on to get them away from crime. Some of the “through Miss McIntosh: That was a highly inappropriate answer, the gates” work being done in London with the St. Giles Mr. Speaker, and I should like to withdraw, and beg Trust and the Metropolitan police has been excellent. leave to introduce an Adjournment debate on this issue. Key challenges include ensuring that people are not Mr. Speaker: Order. I am grateful to the hon. Lady, offending—not when they are in prison, where, on the but in any event I am intending to move on to the next whole they cannot, but from the moment they leave question. prison—and dealing with their incredibly chaotic lives. He is really talking about the same thing. The prescription Reoffending of methadone has to be a medical matter. Simply taking 4. Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): What recent people off any kind of drug on which they are dependent representations he has received on policies to reduce when they are not ready for that will not resolve anything. levels of reoffending. [323387] However, we do have drug abstinence programmes in place. The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Maria Eagle): The Government receive a wide range of Mr. Grieve: But is it not small wonder that prisoners representations on policies to reduce reoffending, ranging coming off short sentences are more likely than not to from regular meetings with front-line staff, sentencers reoffend, given that, despite the “through the gates” and third sector organisations to the detailed consideration programmes, the delays in assessing prisoners mean of more formal reports from parliamentary Committees that most do not even undertake rehabilitation work or external bodies such as the National Audit Office. until halfway through their sentence—and there is then wasteful duplication of assessments—and also given Sandra Gidley: The NAO’s report of two weeks ago that up to half of prisoners spend almost all day in their revealed that reoffending by people released from short-term cells? prison sentences is costing £10 billion a year. We seem to be supporting colleges of crime. Is it not time for Mr. Straw: The hon. and learned Gentleman draws some serious research into what works to reduce attention to the findings of a National Audit Office reoffending, perhaps through something analogous to report to which I have already referred, which shows the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence—a that there are some excellent practices and some less NICE for the Ministry of Justice? than excellent practices in prisons. We are committed to Maria Eagle: It is always difficult to get the balance responding very quickly to such issues—a response that right between researching into problems and spending includes improving the time that it takes to assess money on actually dealing with them. We prefer to prisoners, as he suggests. spend money on dealing with problems, and that is working. Reoffending has gone down: since 2000 the Retail Crime reoffending rate has reduced by 15.9 per cent., crime is down by 36 per cent.