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Vol. 791 Monday No. 154 18 June 2018 PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDEROFBUSINESS Questions Hospices: Impact of NHS Pay Increases......................................................................1843 Home Office: Immigration ...........................................................................................1846 Private Burial Grounds.................................................................................................1848 Oil and Gas: UK Continental Shelf .............................................................................1850 European Union (Withdrawal) Bill Commons Reasons and Amendments ............................................................................1852 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2018-06-18 The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2018, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1843 Hospices: Impact of NHS Pay Increases[18 JUNE 2018] Hospices: Impact of NHS Pay Increases 1844 House of Lords Lord O’Shaughnessy: My noble friend gives a compelling reason. It is salutary to note that while Monday 18 June 2018 around half of deaths occur in hospital, most people— about 70% to 80%—would prefer to die at home or in 2.30 pm a hospice, which means that we need to have a thriving hospice sector. That is why it is important to make Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Lincoln. sure that it can compete on a level playing field for staff. Hospices: Impact of NHS Pay Increases Question Lord Blair of Boughton (CB): My Lords, I declare an interest as the chair of Helen & Douglas House, the first ever hospice in the world for children. When I last 2.36 pm spoke about this subject, the Minister invited me for a Asked by Lord Goddard of Stockport meeting. I am afraid that that meeting has never been proffered since, but I am delighted to tell the House ToaskHerMajesty’sGovernmentwhatrepresentations that the threat of a meeting with a Minister was they have received from the hospice movement about enough to get the clinical commissioning group to the impact of the proposed increases in NHS pay; start paying towards our hospice. However, I echo the and whether voluntary hospices will also be able to point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howard: that a access any additional funding being set aside to hospice that is struggling for staff, which is then presented fund the proposed NHS pay increases. with a pay deal only for the NHS, will struggle more. Can the Minister really consider the effect of this on TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department hospices? of Health and Social Care (Lord O’Shaughnessy) (Con): My Lords, the Government received a number of Lord O’Shaughnessy: I am sorry that that meeting written representations from hospices regarding NHS has not taken place, and of course I am always glad to pay. The majority of NHS trade union members have meet the noble Lord to discuss this issue. I am glad now voted in favour of the Agenda for Change pay that the threat of a meeting has had the desired result, deal. This is welcome news that will help the NHS to and clearly, I agree with him that we have to make sure reward, recruit and retain the staff it needs. We are that hospices are equally attractive places to work as is nowconsideringtheimpactof theagreementonnon-NHS the NHS more broadly. organisations such as hospices, and will consider carefully the NHS Pay Review Body’s report before making any final decisions. Lord Judd (Lab): My Lords, I declare an interest as a vice-president of Hospice at Home in west Cumbria, where I live. This Question is very important. Does the Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD): I thank the Minister Minister not agree that hospices work best when they for his reply. Would he agree that, if the Government work very closely with the health service? That is provided direct ring-fenced funding to improve the certainly the case in west Cumbria. We have become pay and the terms and conditions of support workers part of the co-operative provision of services and care and all who deliver for the NHS, that would help to the community as a whole, but raising the necessary employers to address the significant recruitment and funds is a tremendous task. I hope that the Government retention problems and, ultimately, deliver a better will look very seriously at how hospices can be supported service, not putting at risk the vital hospice beds that in ensuring that the nurses working for them with so would be at risk in the voluntary and charity sector? much devotion are able to enjoy any improvements in the remuneration of nurses across the country. Lord O’Shaughnessy: The noble Lord is quite right; the Agenda for Change pay deal obviously applies to NHS staff who are on the Agenda for Change contract. Lord O’Shaughnessy: I can reassure the noble Lord The deal was agreed and happily has been approved that we are looking at that. Hospices work closely with by the unions, precisely to reward NHS staff for the local CCGs, which provide around 30% of their funding. fantastic work they do, and to make sure that we can We estimate that around 9,000 nurses work in hospices, recruit and retain more. Clearly, as we go forward, for and clearly we want to make sure that that number not non-NHS providers, be they in social care or hospices, only stays level but increases so that we can start to it is important that we do not cannibalise one workforce deliver the choice that we have committed to in palliative for the other. That is why we will look carefully at the care for people. conclusion of the pay review body’s report with regard to hospices. Lord Dobbs (Con): My Lords, the hospice movement helps over 200,000 patients every year, and they help Lord Howard of Lympne (Con): My Lords, I declare not only the patients who are at that point in their lives my interest as chair of Hospice UK. Would my noble but their relatives, leaving them with fantastic and friend agree that the greater the extent to which hospices positive experiences rather than the alternative which can discharge their functions, the greater the extent to is available. The hospice movement is largely funded which the pressure on NHS beds will be relieved? Is by the private sector— that not therefore a compelling reason for ensuring that a pay increase is met with regard to hospices? Noble Lords: Question! 1845 Hospices: Impact of NHS Pay Increases[LORDS] Home Office: Immigration 1846 Lord Dobbs: I will quickly get to that—I have a very Lord O’Shaughnessy: This is indeed an important important question. The hospice movement is largely day in the history of the NHS, and I am delighted that funded by the private sector—by public subscription, it is a Conservative Government who are making this not by central government. Can my noble friend use financial commitment. I look forward to having an his great skills, of which we are all admirers, to make opportunity to repeat my right honourable friend’s sure that nothing that the Government do undermines Statement tomorrow, when we will have more time to the hospice sector and that we find ever more imaginative discuss its benefits. and successful ways to support such a vital role? Home Office: Immigration Lord O’Shaughnessy: I will certainly do everything Question that I can. I agree that hospices are a fantastic example of the kind of mixed economy that this country does so well, with philanthropic and public contributions, 2.45 pm and we must make sure that both those continue. Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps Baroness Thornton (Lab): My Lords, I am sure that they are taking to improve performance on immigration the Minister will be aware that this affects not just matters by the Home Office. hospices, which of course are an integral and very important part of the health service, but the pay of those who work in all the charities and social enterprises The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams which contract with the NHS. I would like to broaden of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, the Home Secretary has the Question slightly from hospices and ask what the publicly stated that he is committed to a fair and Minister’s reaction is to the Royal College of Nursing, humane immigration system. Although the latest which has called on the Secretary of State to establish published data shows that the immigration system is a non-NHS national staff council to facilitate a more meeting published service standards on the majority integrated way of looking at the pay of all nurses and of high-volume routes and at the border,we are continually healthcare staff in health and social care settings seeking to improve our performance.