Vol. 788 Monday No. 92 5 February 2018

PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDEROFBUSINESS

Questions Recycling: Chinese Import Ban ...... 1789 Data Protection and Privacy ...... 1791 Asylum Seekers: Legal Advice...... 1794 Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains...... 1796 Civil Service Impartiality Private Notice Question ...... 1798 Role of Women in Public Life Motion to Take Note...... 1801 Immigration White Paper Statement...... 1843 NHS Winter Crisis Statement...... 1847 Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials Statement...... 1850 Rail Update Statement...... 1854 Role of Women in Public Life Motion to Take Note (Continued)...... 1866 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2018-02-05

The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party

No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2018, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1789 Recycling: Chinese Import Ban[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Recycling: Chinese Import Ban 1790

House of Lords for instance, which creates methane, into landfill; it is far better that that goes for incineration, if necessary, Monday 5 February 2018 so that we can use it for energy.

2.30 pm Lord Teverson (LD): My Lords, the Government’s 25-year environmental plan promised a waste strategy Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans. later this year. Will they take advantage of that and bring forward the target of ending plastic waste by Recycling: Chinese Import Ban 2042 by a decade or so? Question Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, we are extremely 2.36 pm ambitious: as your Lordships know, we have some of the strongest arrangements on microbeads, certainly Asked by Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb in Europe, if not in the world. We want to go as fast as To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures we can, which is why the resources and waste strategy they are taking to ensure that materials collected will be important, and we want to reuse and recycle for recycling by local authorities are not incinerated more. as a result of the Chinese ban on taking plastic and other waste materials. Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB): My Lords, what studies have the Government commissioned into the TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department environmental hazards that may occur if we start to for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner burn large amounts of plastic waste, and what percentage of Kimble) (Con): My Lords, the Government are of plastic can be recycled according to the Government’s encouraging industry to access alternative markets own estimates? and are taking steps to reduce waste and recycle more. Where waste cannot yet be recycled, modern incineration Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, following facilities ensure that it can be used to produce energy considerable investment, there are now about 40 large and to reduce reliance on fossil fuels. These facilities municipal waste plants. They are highly regulated by divert waste from landfill and are tightly regulated by the Environment Agency precisely to ensure that we the Environment Agency. Our resources and waste recover energy and, importantly, they also operate strategy will set out further actions to increase recycling within all the emission tests. I do not have the precise and manage waste to incineration. figure for what is currently recyclable but I will write to the noble Lord. However, the whole essence of our Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP): My Lords, objective is to cut the amount of plastic in circulation we hear fine words from the Government, with lots of and to reduce the variety of plastic so that we can promises, reports, press releases from No. 10, and so recycle ever more. on. But recently, the UK declined to commit to the Lord Berkeley (Lab): In his original Answer to my EU-wide 65% recycling target by 2035. That target noble friend Lady Jones, the Minister mentioned that does not seem unreasonable. Why do the Government the Government were looking for alternative markets not put their promises into action? to replace the Chinese market as the current receptacle for much waste. Is it not immoral to say that we are Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, we certainly just going to look for another place in the world to need to consider this target carefully. The approach we dump the rubbish that we should be looking after want to take in future is to support our ambitions in ourselves? tackling avoidable waste and supporting a circular economy. However, we need to consider this further Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, there obviously because we do not want perverse incentives on heavy need to be alternatives and we are looking at them. waste when actually, we need to consider what the Nothing is exported in the way that the noble Lord most important waste is that we ought to be reusing describes—there are very strong and strict requirements. and recycling more. I agree with him about wanting to recycle more at home but a number of countries—Turkey, Taiwan, Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con): My Lords, has Vietnam and India—all have resources and are taking the Minister seen the suggestion in the press that we more waste. However, we certainly want to work more should bury all this at £86—I am not sure per what on recycling at home. measure, but think of what it would cost; it is expensive now even to suggest that—and then dig it all up again Baroness Redfern (Con): My Lords, embracing the to recycle it when our facilities are available? Surely Chinese ban and implementing further restrictions in the answer is for us to set up companies in this country the coming years could be an opportunity to overhaul that can carry out the recycling, which would be to our our current system and invest at home. What progress advantage in business and environmental terms. is being made in moving towards a joined-up waste and recycling policy that can respond positively? Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, there is certainly value in waste, and we want to ensure that we have Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, the resources reduced dramatically the amount of waste going to and waste strategy will be very important in that landfill—that is whythe landfill tax has been so successful. regard, and it is encouraging that industry is picking Interestingly, it is important that we do not put paper, this up. We have already had announcements from 1791 Recycling: Chinese Import Ban[LORDS] Data Protection and Privacy 1792

[LORD GARDINER OF KIMBLE] and obligations before new data protection laws come businesses about plastic-free brand products, and it is into effect. In addition to supporting the commissioner’s interesting that we are now recycling 60% of our work to update and publicise the guidance provided packaging. Therefore, although we need to seek further through the ICO website, the Government will deliver increases in recycling rates, we are now going in the an awareness-raising marketing campaign targeted at right direction. those organisations and sectors most in need of support.

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab): My Lords, is it Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con): My Lords, we are not time that the people at the top of the supply chain in the midst of the fourth industrial revolution: a started taking more responsibility for the materials revolution fuelled by data—our data. Does my noble they produce? Manufacturers are always very quick to friend agree that much good work has been done but blame recyclers for allowing a build-up of waste to that we need a public debate on a grand scale to enable occur but, rather than just relying on manufacturers to everyone to understand the potential, and indeed the take a voluntary approach, what are the Government pitfalls, when it comes to the use of their data? doing to hold them to account for the plastic pollution they produce? That is at the heart of the problem. Lord Ashton of Hyde: My Lords, I completely agree They need to produce alternatives to plastic but they with my noble friend. That is why we are establishing are not doing that in sufficient numbers. the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation, which will Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, we certainly advise on the measures we need to enable and support need research and co-operation from all to increase safe, ethical and ground-breaking innovation in artificial recycling rates. Business is beginning to make some intelligence and other data-related technologies. I remind important strides. The Co-op, Iceland, Unilever and noble Lords of this House’s Select Committee on the packaging industry have committed to implementing Artificial Intelligence, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord solutions to enable the sustainable recycling of all Clement-Jones. As for where we are with the centre, black plastic packaging by the end of this year. We the process of appointing a chair for the interim centre need to collaborate and work with business. We have is under way and expressions of interest for the role strong targets and we all have to change many of our are currently live. More information is available on attitudes. GOV.UK. Lord Cormack (Con): My Lords, what are we doing Lord Clement-Jones (LD): My Lords, I thank the to increase and enforce penalties on those who dump Minister for the earlier namecheck. Thanks to the household goods and other things in the countryside noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, there will now be a and, in the process, spoil some of the most beautiful statutory code of practice on age-appropriate website parts of Britain? design, which will set standards required of websites on privacy for children. Will the Government make Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, I agree with sure that young people and their parents are clearly my noble friend that fly-tipping is a terrible blight, and effectively told what these standards are at an whether in towns or the countryside. That is why we early date? That is especially important given that the have introduced stronger powers for local authorities ICO’s draft children and the GDPR guidance has and the Environment Agency—for example, to seize already been overtaken by this major amendment to and search vehicles involved in suspected crime. We the Data Protection Bill. have also introduced the power for local authorities to issue fixed-penalty notices and we have just published Lord Ashton of Hyde: The noble Lord is right to the waste crime consultation, which proposes providing mention the Kidron amendment—I think it is called local authorities with the option of issuing fixed-penalty that now,by universal approval—which the Government notices to those whose waste ends up being fly-tipped. are pleased to support. It is early days, to the extent that the Data Protection Bill has not even had its Data Protection and Privacy Second Reading in the other place. However, the ICO Question is aware of what it will be required to do if this amendment remains in place and is working on that. 2.44 pm In the meantime, it is concentrating on the GDPR Asked by Lord Holmes of Richmond coming into effect on 25 May, and the work that has to be done to get people up to speed before that date. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking, or plan to take, to ensure that people are aware of their rights and obligations in The Earl of Clancarty (CB): My Lords, following respect of data protection and privacy. the question of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, does the Minister believe that the best place to start is TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department in schools, with personal data taught as part of a for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of statutory PSHE course? Hyde) (Con): My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for the opportunity to highlight the fact that the Lord Ashton of Hyde: It is very important that all GDPR takes effect on 25 May this year. To that end, young people are aware of both the opportunities and the Government are working closely with the Information the dangers associated with the internet and data-driven Commissioner’s Office to ensure that individuals and technologies. To that extent, I agree with the noble organisations are increasingly aware of their rights Lord. 1793 Data Protection and Privacy[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Asylum Seekers: Legal Advice 1794

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab): Further to do. It could actually prevent health benefits occurring. the previous two questions about young people, does It is a classic example of an ethical dilemma that the the Minister accept that many children are being given centre will be able to look at. access to mobile devices well before their 13th birthday, which is the point at which most websites and providers Asylum Seekers: Legal Advice are supposed to limit the availability of certain kinds Question of content? While there is a certain amount that legislation can do about this, it is really an issue of 2.52 pm public information, particularly as many of these young people are being enabled by their own parents, who Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno need to understand the dangers.What are the Government To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they doing to further the public education that would help intend to ensure that every failed asylum seeker, that? and anyone facing removal from the United Kingdom for whatever reason, has access to adequate legal Lord Ashton of Hyde: The new general data protection advice. regulation specifies that children are a special case and have to be protected more than adults. I completely The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of agree with the noble Baroness that education is important, Elie) (Con): My Lords, legal aid is available for individuals and that is education for parents and not just for faced with deportation where they are claiming asylum young people. Across all age groups, a lot of people or challenging their detention. The Government have have things to learn about the dangers of the internet. commenced the post-implementation review of legal One thing that the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation aid, which will include the scope of legal aid for will do is show that it is not just Government who are immigration and asylum cases. involved in this but the industry, education, regulators and charities. All sectors in society have to come Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD): My Lords, the together to make sure that this tremendous opportunity Minister will be aware that many asylum seekers are is used safely by everyone. unable to access legal advice, for different reasons. Some are penniless and others just do not know the Baroness Browning (Con): Is my noble friend able to procedures. The result is that many of the decisions confirm that no government agencies now sell on or made by the Home Office are unsound and reversed disclose to third parties personal data without the on appeal. In 2005, 13,000 appeals were allowed. In explicit agreement of the individual concerned? 2010, 35,000 were allowed and, in 2015, 17,000 were allowed. Therefore, in 10 years 250,000 appeals were Lord Ashton of Hyde: I do not believe that that is allowed—a quarter of a million wrong decisions by the case although I cannot give an absolute guarantee the Home Office. Will the Minister please tell me what because I am not sure of my facts. One thing that the he is doing to remedy that situation so that we have a Digital Economy Bill did was to outline what procedure that is fair and equable? Governments can do with their own data. They can use it within government. The general data protection Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, all persons detained regulation makes the issue of consent much more in immigration removal centres now have access to a explicit. Consent has to be genuine consent. duty solicitor and therefore have access to legal advice.

Baroness Hayman (CB): My Lords, will the Minister Lord Beecham (Lab): My Lords, it should be axiomatic add the National Health Service to the list of organisations that legal assistance is available to people facing removal that need to be involved? Does he agree that within the and the Minister has made it clear that that should be National Health Service there is an enormous amount the case. However, surely the underlying problem is of data that could be of fantastic benefit to medical the shameful record of the Home Office in this area. research? It can be anonymised. It may be, for example, We read regularly that people who have been living in that in cohort studies people have already given their this country for decades, often working and having led consent to that data being used. I declare my interests, a successful life here, are now being ordered to depart. as set out in the register. Will he agree that there can Will the Government review the performance of the sometimes be a misunderstanding of the extent of Home Office and its policies in this very sensitive area? data protection, which could act as a real obstacle to the sort of research that we all want to see? Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, the period for which a person has remained illegally in this country should Lord Ashton of Hyde: That is the subject of the not be and is not a determinant of their right to amendment to the Data Protection Bill of the noble remain here. It is necessary to apply the relevant law Lord, Lord Mitchell. It gives a good example of the both to the issue of asylum seekers and those who sort of thing that the Centre for Data Ethics and arrive here unlawfully, not even seeking asylum. Innovation could consider.On the one hand, the National Health Service has an unparalleled amount of medical Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD): My Lords, a Bar information that could be used to advantage. On the Council report published last November found that at other hand, if it is monetised and sold on, which has any one time more than 3,000 people, mostly failed the superficial attraction of providing money for the asylum seekers, are held in administrative detention NHS, it could prevent researchers using that information without being convicted of a crime, at a cost of in the same way that pharmacological organisations £34,000 each. More than half are ultimately released 1795 Asylum Seekers: Legal Advice[LORDS] Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains 1796

[LORD THOMAS OF GRESFORD] breach of its international obligations and law, and if into the community when their appeals succeed. Last so what steps do the Government intend to take to put Friday, in the case of VC, an asylum seeker from this right? Nigeria with mental problems, the Court of Appeal slammed the Home Office for misinterpreting its own Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, we do not agree that policy and awarded damages. Will the Minister review we are in breach of our international law obligations, the means and merits test applied by the Legal Aid nor is it obvious that there is a connection between the Agency, which academic research shows operates to figures given by the noble Lord and the availability of exclude detainees from legal aid by, legal aid. “seizing upon the tiniest thing”, to declare their applications ineligible? Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains Question Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, the Legal Aid Agency is of course independent of Government for very 2.59 pm proper and good reasons.The application of LASPO—the Asked by Lord Harries of Pentregarth legal aid Act—is the subject of internal review at To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many present following an announcement by the then Lord British businesses have taken action and reported Chancellor in October last year. their efforts to prevent modern slavery in supply chains from India. The Lord Bishop of St Albans: My Lords, research by the Children’s Society shows that unaccompanied The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams and separated children are particularly vulnerable. of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, the UK is the first Only 12 grants for exceptional case funding were made country to require businesses to report on the steps in 2015-16, fewer than 1% of the expected number of that they have taken to tackle modern slavery.Thousands cases under the previous system. Hundreds of children of businesses have published transparency statements, are being left without a legal safety net. Can the with many examples of good practice emerging in Minister confirm that the situation of these children India across a range of industries, from textiles to will be specifically considered within the review of the landscaping materials. I encourage businesses to stay Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders vigilant and to work with local NGOs to understand Act? the risks in their supply chains.

Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, current figures show Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB): I thank the Minister that 103 children were put into detention in immigration- for her Answer.According to the Government’sestimates, related matters in 2016, of which 42 were under 12. between 9,000 and 11,000 businesses with a turnover Some of those may have been unaccompanied but, of more than £36 million a year are required to submit under the policy of the 2014 Act, unaccompanied these statements, but the Government have not been children should not actually go into immigration removal willing to set up a central register. Groups of NGOs centres; they should be held pending removal decisions. have set up two websites. According to them, less than With regard to exceptional case funding, the figures 4,000 businesses have so far set up statements. Only for the first two quarters of 2017 indicate that the 14% of these conform fully with the law. The NGOs success rate for immigration-related applications was further add that there is particular complacency among 73%. Some 652 applications were made during that certain high-risk industries, which might also point to period. high-risk groups such as the Dalits and Adivasis in India. If the Government are still not willing to set up Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con): My Lords, we a central register, what steps will they take to ensure should remember the United Nations convention, which that all businesses comply with the law and provide a originally set out the criterion for granting asylum: to statement? people in great need of protection. Does my noble and Baroness Williams of Trafford: The noble and right learned friend agree that it is terribly important for us reverend Lord gives a figure of 14%, but two independent to restate that, and to make sure that asylum is not NGOs have collated statements and found that between used as a vehicle for immigration rather than giving 32% and 50% of eligible companies have produced a the protection that the most extreme cases require? statement. Clearly there is further to go. The legislation is relatively new. On compiling a register, we have Lord Keen of Elie: My Lords, it is clearly in the considered in detail whether the Government could interests of genuine asylum seekers that the system for publish a list of businesses covered by the Modern seeking asylum as permitted under the UN convention Slavery Act. It is not easy to do so because it is not should not be abused and should not be seen to be currently possible to filter the databases of Companies abused. House by turnover size, but the Government are looking at this. Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab): My Lords, according to an Amnesty report published in 2017, over 2,000 Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB): My Lords, it is not easy young people seeking refuge in the UK were deported to find out whether the companies that are required to to Afghanistan between 2007 and 2015, the majority provide the annual report are complying. The companies of them since the legal aid cuts were introduced. Does we are concerned about operate right across the world, the Minister agree with Amnesty that the UK is in not just in India, although India is clearly very important. 1797 Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Civil Service Impartiality 1798

The Government really do need to take some action to and the information that they provide, but I reiterate ensure that there is pressure on these companies to that the legislation is relatively new and I expect that comply with the Modern Slavery Act. the whole system will see improvements.

Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, part of Lord Spicer (Con): My Lords— the pressure is from the public, because the public are more and more concerned that their clothes are produced Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB): My Lords— ethically—or whatever goods and services. The Home Secretary can apply for a court injunction requiring Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, because businesses to comply. If they still refuse, they will be two noble Lords were speaking I did not hear my liable to an unlimited fine for contempt of court. noble friend’s question.

Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab): My Lords, does Lord Spicer: My Lords, the person who has done the Minister realise how weak her answers sound? In more than anybody else to further this cause is response to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Mr Anthony Steen. Should not something be done to Harries, she said that it is for NGOs to keep a list; to recognise that fact? the noble and learned Baroness she said that the public have to put on pressure. There has to be a little Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, that decision bit more action from the Government. They have this is probably above my pay grade, but I congratulate requirement, so they have to get behind it to make sure anybody who is helping to make improvements in this it happens. We understand, as we heard earlier, that area. It is a major priority of this Government. the Government set their face against any statutory regulation in this regard, but will the Minister tell us Civil Service Impartiality what action the Government will now take to do their Private Notice Question utmost to ensure that these companies register and understand the risk in their supply chain, as has been 3.06 pm highlighted by the Corporate Responsibility Coalition, which recognises that many companies just are not Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath looking at this and taking it seriously? The Government To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps have to step up to the plate. they are taking to defend civil servants from unwarranted criticism regarding their objectivity Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, I did not and impartiality. absolve the Government of responsibility by saying that it is up to the NGOs to produce a list. I outlined Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab): My Lords, I beg the difficulties of producing a list, because of filtering leave to ask a Question of which I have given private by turnover size. The idea of public pressure is a notice. strong one. In addition, I outlined the remedies available to the Home Secretary, which include applying for a Lord Young of Cookham (Con): My Lords, the court injunction requiring businesses to comply. They Ministerial Code says: are liable to an unlimited fine for contempt of court if “Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil they do not. Service”. Our Civil Service is envied the world over and, as the Baroness Hamwee (LD): My Lords, I believe that Home Secretary said over the weekend, has the complete the Government have not yet taken the step, which I confidence of the Government. The Constitutional accept is something of a nuclear option, of applying Reform and Governance Act 2010 enshrines in legislation for an injunction. Is the Minister aware that the National the core principles and values of the Civil Service, Audit Office, in its report in December on modern which include impartiality, integrity and objectivity. slavery, commented on the fact that, These values are set out in the Civil Service Code, “the Home Office does not produce a list of businesses that are which states that civil servants, expected to comply with the legislation and cannot say how many “must not … knowingly mislead ministers, Parliament or others”. companies that should have produced a statement have done so”? I do not believe that they do. It also says: “The Home Office has acknowledged that to date the quality Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am grateful of statements has been variable. Statements therefore do not to the noble Lord for that Answer. Of course, he more provide equal levels of assurance to those scrutinising them”— than anyone has upheld the Ministerial Code during a that is, the NGOs and members of the public. Do the very long and distinguished ministerial career. However, Government have any ideas as to how to assist those in the last few days we have had assertions made, both who would wish to scrutinise them? by Ministers and by Members of Parliament, that officials are deliberately frustrating Brexit or fiddling Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, in terms the figures. Those civil servants cannot defend themselves of the Government, all government departments require in public. Does the noble Lord agree that officials their suppliers to tell them whether they are compliant must have confidence in being able to provide robust with the transparency requirement of the Modern and dispassionate advice without fear of intimidation? Slavery Act. I accept the noble Baroness’s point that Given that No. 10 Downing Street and the Prime some of the statements vary in terms of the quality Minister have failed to slap down those Ministers and 1799 Civil Service Impartiality [LORDS] Civil Service Impartiality 1800

[LORD HUNT OF KINGS HEATH] of the Exchequer at the time. Any criticism should be MPs in his own party who have made these disgraceful directed at the politicians who presented it. I think it slurs, is it too much to ask of the Prime Minister that was also endorsed at the time by the noble Lord, Lord she finally show some leadership? Darling. They are the ones who should be criticised, rather than the civil servants. Lord Young of Cookham: So far as Ministers are concerned—I answer for Ministers, not for Back-Bench Lord Watts (Lab): My Lords, the Minister says that Members of Parliament—the Minister concerned made the Minister concerned has already apologised but has a fulsome apology in another place on 2 February. He faced no sanction. Does that now mean that a civil said: servant can break the code and not face any sanction “I accept that I should have corrected or dismissed the premise of if he apologises later? my hon. Friend’s question. I have apologised to Mr Charles Grant, who is an honest and trustworthy man. As I have put on Lord Young of Cookham: That would be a matter record many times, I have the highest regard for our hard-working for the Civil Service Code. There are penalties levied civil servants. I am grateful for this opportunity to correct the against civil servants who break the code. Depending record and I apologise to the House”.—[Official Report, Commons, on the severity of the offence, they can lose their job, 2/2/18; col. 1095.] as has happened in some cases, or they can apologise. The noble Lord generously referred to my experience In this case, the Minister has apologised. He has as a Minister. I think I have done 20 years on and explained the circumstances. He had no reason to off—probably more than anyone else in this House—but believe that what was being said at the time was not with many discontinuities, and I have never had occasion true. When he discovered it was not true, at the first to question the impartiality or objectivity of civil opportunity he came to the House and apologised. I servants. They have spoken truth unto power. They think that was the correct thing to do. have quite often said things that I did not want to hear, but I would never accuse them of some of the things Lord O’Donnell (CB): My Lords, I had the pleasure that have recently been levied against them. I think we of working with the Minister in his many guises and, if should be proud of our Civil Service, and I reject the ever there was a Minister who lived by the code he has smears that have been made against it. just talked about, it is the noble Lord. Does he believe that those making allegations without supporting evidence Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): My Lords, the Minister against serving civil servants, who will not respond, will recognise that this is not just a British issue. The are undertaking a form of bullying that, to be honest, current attack by the President and his Administration actually diminishes those making the attacks but, on the FBI in the United States raises rather similar more importantly, damages our democracy? issues. Can the Minister assure us publicly that, when we say that civil servants are expected to be impartial, Lord Young of Cookham: Well, whether the accusations they are not expected to be impartial between evidence made in the House of Commons last week constitute and supposition, and that when Ministers prefer faith bullying, I am not quite so sure. I think they were or fantasy to evidence, civil servants have the right to ill-advised, given that the evidence did not stack up for point out that good governance depends on paying the accusations that were made. But I agree with what attention to the evidence, wherever one can find it? the noble Lord said in his final remarks that the people who come out of it worse are those who make Lord Young of Cookham: The noble Lord is absolutely the accusations, rather than those they are levied right. I quoted a moment ago the Civil Service Code, against. which includes objectivity. Objectivity is defined as, “basing your advice and decisions on rigorous analysis of the Lord Tugendhat (Con): Does my noble friend believe evidence”. that those MPs and Ministers who impugn the impartiality It is these standards for which our Civil Service is and good faith of our civil servants are behaving very renowned. much as President Trump does in the United States with regard to the FBI? Lord Blencathra (Con): My Lords, can I ask my noble friend’s honest opinion? He will be familiar with Lord Young of Cookham: I am not sure I want to this document: the Treasury analysis of May 2016 open up a fresh front from the Dispatch Box, but I forecasting a complete collapse of the British economy hope President Trump will read what my noble friend if we were to vote to leave. I have maintained that this has just said. document is propaganda from top to bottom, and it turns out to be utterly untrue in reality. My noble Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab): My Lords, is it not friend has praised the objectivity of those who produce the case that every sane business carries out an investment government statistics. If I continue to criticise the appraisal before it embarks on an investment, that mandarins and the Ministers who approved the statistics every sensible person will always produce a business and this document, does that make me a snake-oil plan before starting a business, that responsible and salesman or a 1930s German Nazi—or maybe a bit of sensible Governments must engage in cost-benefit analyses both? and policy analyses and that, if we gave up those habits, it would be deeply damaging to the future of Lord Young of Cookham: I think my noble friend the country? That is the logic that some of these should distinguish between criticisms of Ministers people are trying to drive us to: that we should not and criticisms of civil servants. The document that he have any experts, we should not have any studies and has in his hand was publicly presented by the Chancellor we should not have any analysis at all. 1801 Civil Service Impartiality [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1802

Lord Young of Cookham: I have not seen the documents The Representation of the People Act received that are the object of this exchange, but I understand Royal Assent on 6 February, exactly 100 years ago that they were looking at a number of post-Brexit tomorrow. The Act gave the vote to women over scenarios from an economic point of view. I also 30 with property for the first time and extended the understand that the Prime Minister subsequently said vote to all men over 21. It was a massive step in the that they were looking at off-the-shelf options, and right direction, but the fight for women’s participation she has made it clear that she is not looking at off-the-shelf goes back decades before 1918 to petitions, lobbying options. and debates throughout the 19th century and includes the first petition to Parliament in 1832, the first mass Lord Hennessy of Nympsfield (CB): My Lords, petition in 1866 and countless failed Bills in the following nearly every political generation experiences a reprise 50 years. The determined lobbying, and the persistent of this question. In the early post-war Treasury, Hugh production of thousands upon thousands of pamphlets Dalton was given some unpalatable advice and denounced alongside those petitions, are most associated in later his officials as “congenital snag-hunters”, but surely years with the suffragists—the National Union of that is what we pay them for. Does the Minister agree Women’s Suffrage Societies—led by Millicent Fawcett. that it would be pointless to hire ciphers for the beauty The suffragettes—a pejorative name given to the of their political opinions because that would be the more militant campaign—were centred on the Women’s road to a politicised Civil Service which would be Social and Political Union and the Pankhurst family. ruinous for this country? Tired of the lack of progress, this group changed its Lord Young of Cookham: I agree. It is the job of mode of campaigning to include protest, vandalism civil servants to bring to Ministers’ attention the and even arson. The suffragettes were also joined by consequences of their policies and to argue forcefully prominent figures such as Princess Sophia Duleep against them if they believe they are misguided but, Singh, who upset her neighbours in Hampton Court once the decision has been taken, to go out and deliver Palace, where she lived in a grace and favour apartment, them as best they can. My experience with civil servants by selling suffragette newspapers at the palace gates. is that that is exactly what they do, and I agree with the This fact demonstrates the nature of the campaign noble Lord. for women’s suffrage: it crossed social boundaries, cultural boundaries and international boundaries. It Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con): Does my noble brought together women from all walks of life in a friend agree that disparaging remarks were made in a common purpose, all determined to be heard and all debate 10 days ago in this House by a Member of the intent on making their case. Women wanted to be Opposition Front Bench who impugned the integrity truly represented in the laws and customs of our of the civil servants in our Library because she did not country; women demanded to take part in writing the agree with the brief that they produced? I went straight laws and customs of the UK. The voice of women to the Library, apologised on behalf of the House and deserved to be heard. The suffragettes and the suffragists said that no one would agree with her. may have used different tactics but they all saw them as a means to achieve the same end. Lord Young of Cookham: I hope my noble friend In 1910 Princess Sophia joined Emmeline Pankhurst will understand if I pass on that one, not having been and other women and attempted to meet the Prime privy to the accusations that were made or the evidence, Minister in Parliament. Many of them were forcibly but I am sure my noble friend did what he felt was removed. This was just one of numerous incidents right in defending the Library. when women entered Parliament only to be ejected by violent means. Many were gradually banned from the Role of Women in Public Life estate after they continued their acts of vandalism or Motion to Take Note chained themselves to railings and statues. Youcan see their work on damaged statues all around the Palace. 3.17 pm Their story and their relationship with this building Moved by Baroness Vere of Norbiton: are told by the stained glass window that nods to the Cat and Mouse Act. This Act released hunger-striking That this House takes note of the role of women women from prison until they regained their health, in public life and the progress made in increasing only to then promptly return them to their cells. their representation in Parliament 100 years after the Representation of the People Act 1918 received Being of a peaceful and non-law breaking nature, Royal Assent. had I been alive 100 years ago I would like to think I would have been a suffragist. I would like to tell the Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): My Lords, 100 years story of the procession organised by the suffragists in ago this House, our Parliament and every other Chamber the summer of 1913. They organised marches throughout across the UK looked very different. Every woman in Britain which culminated in a great rally in Hyde Park the country was unable to vote, stand for election or sit on 26 July. Volunteers led multiple routes to the rally. in your Lordships’ House. The year 1918 was a turning Over about six weeks, meetings were held along these point and, 100 years on, women and men gather to routes, bringing together women from all walks of life. celebrate and commemorate. It also marked the end of By the time the marches ended in Hyde Park, the a horrific and unimaginable war that changed our group of women was 50,000 strong. country for ever—and from the tragedies of that war There are very few occasions even now when you came an acknowledgement that our country needed to see women collect in numbers of that scale. That the change. suffragists collected in such great numbers, with such 1803 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1804

[BARONESS VERE OF NORBITON] activists and performers. It is not the mere presence of pride and despite the risks, is testament to the strength women such as them that rights the wrongs of past in their souls and the knowledge in their hearts that inequalities but the role that they play in giving voice they were right. The will and the determination of to their communities. They are providing scrutiny of those women, and the men who supported them, the laws of our country and acting to drive change by meant that not only could some women vote in 1918 contributing a diversity of opinion and experience. We but that they could also stand as parliamentary candidates. have always been comfortable with the diversity of But it would be another 40 years until women were political opinion that a partisan system brings, but welcome in your Lordships’ House. The year 2018 also only in this past century have we seen what diverse marks another key milestone: 60 years since the Life debate really means. Peerages Act, which allowed women and men to enter I am honoured to work alongside some extraordinary the House of Lords for the duration of their life. The women and to work with excellent men who all value Act marked a fundamental shift in the entire make-up the experience and knowledge that we bring. We must of the House of Lords. It meant that Parliament could also remember and celebrate the many men who have acknowledge and benefit from the vast pool of expertise supported the cause of gender equality, and indeed of both women and men to work alongside hereditary those who continue to advocate for women, for diversity Peers. In total, 294 female life Peers have been created. and for equality. The Acts that have given women At the current time there are 203 female life Peers in access to democracy and to Parliament were passed by your Lordships’ House, which means that 69%—or men. Gender equality is not a zero-sum game. I will over two-thirds—of all the female life Peers created make the same comment as last year; I would like to are still here. I find that an amazing statistic. But see a greater number of noble Lords of the male women still represent only 26% of the total. I hope variety contributing to debates such as these—and I that noble Lords will agree with me that there is still a thank those who have stepped up on this occasion. way to go. I pay tribute to all the extraordinary women and The women in your Lordships’ House today also brilliant men who have moved us this far, and to those reflect a broader change over the past 60 years. They who continue to strive for equality. There has been are drawn not just from political careers but from 100 years of progress. Let there be 100 years more. professional roles, from business, and from science and the arts, bringing a huge range of talent from across the full spectrum of society. This would have been 3.28 pm unthinkable 100 years ago: not only that women would Baroness Gale (Lab): My Lords, I thank the noble be recognised for their merit but that they have had the Baroness, Lady Williams, for securing this important opportunity to demonstrate their merit with careers. debate. I know she worked hard to get it on the agenda Women have made history in all sectors. In your today. Lordships’ House, the first two Lord Speakers were Over the last 100 years, women’s lives have seen women. I am particularly amused by the comment of great improvements. There are more women in political the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, who said that, and public life than ever before, although they are still “it gives me some quiet satisfaction that, should a man break a minority in Parliament. Since 1918, 489 women have through the glass ceiling to succeed me, he will be known as the been elected to the House of Commons but that first male Lord Speaker”. compares with 4,801 men. That is quite a minority, so I hope that the current Lord Speaker appreciates his it is not a great figure. Of those 489 women only role in history. The point remains that any man who 45 went on to become Cabinet Ministers, but there goes first is always the first person. I sincerely hope we have been two woman Prime Ministers in the last are on our way to a world where a woman can be 100 years. remarkable for achieving a feat rather than for doing The new institutions seem to work better for women. so despite the implied handicap of her gender. Devolution in 1999 meant that there were many more I shall mention some other brilliant women firsts women in political life, as we have seen in the National who followed Baroness Wootton as the first female life Assembly for Wales, the Scottish Parliament and the Peer. Baroness Swanborough became the first woman Northern Ireland Assembly. I give the example of to take her seat in your Lordships’ House in 1958, the Wales, where more women were elected in one day, right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester took 24 on 1 May 1999, than the total number of female her seat as the first female Lord spiritual in 2015 and Welsh MPs—19—in the last 100 years. Baroness Young became the first female Leader of New ideas were tried to ensure that women were this House. Outside the Chamber, the noble and learned elected, as Labour did in Wales by using twinning or Baroness, Lady Scotland, became the first woman to pairing of constituencies to ensure that we fielded an be appointed Attorney-General in 2007, the noble equal number of women and men candidates. By Baroness, Lady Hogg, was the first woman to be chief 2003, 30 women and 30 men were elected to the Welsh executive of a FTSE 100 company and the noble Assembly. That made it the first democratically elected Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, became the youngest woman institution in the world to have an equal number of to join this Chamber at the time when she took her men and women members. If we can do it in Wales, we seat, having already succeeded in the male-dominated can do it anywhere. technology sector. New institutions serve women better; a different The brilliant women of your Lordships’ House agenda is pursued because they are much more diverse have succeeded in every corner of society: in law, than the Houses of Parliament. One thing I know: football and cricket, as business owners, scientists, where there is a level playing field, women will come 1805 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1806 forward. There is no shortage of women wanting to is rife in the workplace and in schools. Women in all stand for public office and give service. All women walks of life are still underpaid in comparison to men. want is a chance to serve. Many women in public and political life are abused Women have made progress in other walks of life and harassed, especially on social media. since 1918, not just in political and public life. In the However, despite all this, we all recognise that life is past, many jobs had a married women’s bar which much better for women in many ways. Women’s charities meant that women had to give up work when they got such as Women’s Aid, the Fawcett Society and End married. In 1946, this bar was abolished in the Home Violence against Women, and organisations like the Office, but it took the Foreign Office until 1973. This Women’s Institute, Girlguiding and many more, have bar operated in many walks of life, and it must seem done great work and continue to support women and strange to women today that it could possibly happen. girls in many and different ways, although some of Thankfully, our laws now prevent it. these organisations have had their funding cut and are There are many ways in which the lives of women facing resulting difficulties. have been improved. The advent of oral contraceptives— Research has shown that austerity has hit women the pill—allowed women to control their own fertility much more than men. Analysis has found that 86% of for the first time. The Abortion Act 1967 meant women the savings to the Treasury through tax and benefit were able to seek safe, legal abortions and did away changes since 2010 have come from women, and that with the backstreet illegal abortionists, where, as we the previous Budget did nothing to change this. Women know, many women lost their lives. continue to bear the burden so much more than men. The founding of the National Health Service in Many organisations that support women have had 1948 meant that women—certainly working-class their funding cut, meaning that they cannot provide women—could now get free healthcare. In the past, a the services they have in the past. woman went without in order that her children could How can we now improve the lives of women for be treated; or, she just could not afford the cost as the future? There are certainly a number of ways to money was needed for other things, so she went without. ensure that more women come into political and public Despite some criticisms of the way the National Health life. A starting point would be the Women and Equalities Service works, it is still the best thing we have, but it Committee’s 2017 report and recommendations. One needs to be well taken care of and should get the suggested enacting Section 106 of the Equality resources it needs; otherwise, we are in danger of Act 2010—that all political parties publish their losing such a precious asset. parliamentary candidates’ diversity data for general The lives of women have been improved by the elections. Another recommendation was to extend the Government setting up new institutions such as the Equal Sex Discrimination (Election Candidates) Act 2002, Opportunities Commission, established by the Sex allowing all-women shortlists to be extended beyond Discrimination Act 1975, and the Equality and Human the current provision of 2030, and to extend its use to Rights Commission, established in 2006. The Equal police and crime commissioner elections and mayoral Pay Act was passed in 1970, and we remember the elections. Unfortunately, the Government rejected all Dagenham women who started off the debate by the recommendations; I do hope there will be a rethink. campaigning for equal pay in their workplace. Very few women hold positions of power in all Unfortunately, there is still a gender pay gap, about walks of life. Achieving equality for women is still which much has been heard in recent weeks. The something we are still waiting for and getting impatient Women’s National Commission was set up in 1969 and about. The more we strive for equality, the more we continued for 40 years until, unfortunately, the coalition will provide role models for girls to aspire to. This is Government of 2010 decided it was time to close it achievable but needs government action and working down. I served as the commissioner for Wales for with civil society,such as the Fawcett Society.Tomorrow, more than five years, and I can vouch for the great the 100th anniversary of the Representation of the work it did for women as a whole in the United People Act, the society will launch a campaign, Kingdom, as can my noble friends Lady Crawley and #OurTimeNow, which plans to break down the barriers Lady Prosser, who both served with great distinction to gender equality throughout 2018 and beyond. Let as chair of the WNC and will speak later in our us work together towards that aim so that future debate. generations of women will have a life with no barriers to overcome, and life will be better for all. The closure of the WNC was a great loss to women’s organisations. No doubt the Minister will say that it was taken in-house—into the Government Equalities 3.38 pm Office—but that does not do the work or have the Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD): My Lords, it is a engagement of the WNC. That was definitely a minus pleasure to follow the noble Baronesses, Lady Vere for women. and Lady Gale, this afternoon. Although women’s lives have improved, there is still For me, the story of women’s growing role in politics much more to be done. Women need to be able to live and other aspects of public life is a story of numbers, their lives without fear. Violence against women is still because what we do not measure, we cannot manage. with us. On average, two women a week are killed by So my first number is, of course, 100. It is 100 years their partners or former partners. Women are victims since women over 30, with certain property qualifications, of domestic violence,stalking and coercive and controlling got the right to vote. But it would be another 10 years behaviour. The conviction rate for rape is still low before women got equal voting rights with men, then compared to other crimes. Sexual abuse and harassment set at 21, and a further 30 years before non-hereditary 1807 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1808

[BARONESS BURT OF SOLIHULL] to today, it could be to take back to her colleagues the women were eligible to enter your Lordships’ House request and suggestion that Mary Wollstonecraft be with the Life Peerages Act 1958, when the first four acknowledged in a statue for her trail-blazing work, female life Peers took their seats, as the noble Baroness, A Vindication of the Rights of Women, published in Lady Vere, has already said. Today,women still comprise 1792. I hope that she will give us as favourable an only 26% of this place—a poor comparison to the indication as she can in her remarks later. Commons, where we have reached the dizzy heights Women are important in all aspects of public life. of 32%. We comprise 28% of judges, but only 9% of Supreme This improvement in representation was made possible, Court judges. We are 33% of councillors, but only at least in part, by the Sex Discrimination (Election 17% of council leaders. There is a deficit—a talent Candidates) Act 2002, which for the first time enabled deficit—and, in these challenging times, I would all-women shortlists to become a reality. This was respectfully suggest we need all the talent that we can conceived and introduced by the Labour Party, which get. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, what we does so much better than other parties, with 45% of do not measure we cannot manage. The EHRC is women in the Commons,as opposed to Liberal Democrats calling for Section 106 of the Equality Act 2010 to be on 33% and Conservatives on 32%. Others, like my enacted. That section requires political parties to publish own party, have struggled with the concept of all-women candidate diversity data. Bringing the facts into the shortlists, but the figures clearly speak for themselves. cold light of day has a wonderful effect on behaviour. The notion that it must be the quality of the individual The gender pay gap reporting rules come into force candidate which determines selection has dogged us, this year. As I speak, large companies are scurrying and I would that it were not so. The guilt engendered around looking at their gender pay gaps and trying to in so many women at the thought that they might be put in place systems to ensure that they do not get advantaged over men and, Lord forbid, be a token shown up in the same way again. The shaming effect woman, causes them to hold back. If I thought that of having one’sless-than-commendable statistics published deliberately choosing a quotient of women would for all to see would give political parties the incentive result in any deterioration of quality of representation, they need to revise and reform the way they choose I might agree. But when you look at some of the men their candidates. who represent us, who have no doubts about their My final number is 276. A postcard with that entitlement to rule—well, I rest my case. Noble Lords number printed on it arrived on my desk last year, and in this House this afternoon are of course exempted—not it took me a while to work out what it meant. It is my wishing to get lynched. number; my place in the history of women elected to Anyway, moving on—my next figure is 1979, which, the British Parliament. In 2005, when I was elected, of course, was the date when we got our first female only 275 women had preceded me. Today, progress has Prime Minister. Personally, I would feel more inclined speeded up but even so it will, apparently, take another to celebrate this milestone if she had encouraged other nine elections before we achieve parity with the men. I women to come forward, to use some of the talented want to see parity in my lifetime, but if I die before it women that she had at her disposal. But, sadly, she got happens I will jolly well come back and haunt these to the top and pulled the ladder up behind her, which corridors until we have fair and equal representation is a great shame, because the whole point of having of all the talents in this potentially great country of representation from all parts of society is to make for ours. better government. We know for a fact that companies with diverse boards thrive and prosper more than 3.46 pm boards comprising all men, of the same ethnicity and Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con): My Lords, the same class, from the same school and even belonging we celebrate the centenary of the Representation of to the same club. It is obvious that you get better the People Act tomorrow. I take this opportunity to decisions when you take more views into account, but reflect briefly on one element of how it all came about. when you look at one of our ruling political groups Much of the focus over the coming year will be on the today, you see that pattern. I am not saying that men suffragettes, the suffragists, the Pankhursts, the Fawcetts would deliberately discriminate against women, different and other brave women who courageously campaigned ethnic groups, disabled people, people from different in this cause. However, I should like to spare a moment backgrounds, and so on. They just do not think about to think about one group of people who may not get us. Out of sight, out of mind. That is why we need to the attention they deserve: the men who introduced be there, around the table, where the real decisions are the legislation and made it happen, and one man in made—and role models for us are few and far between. particular. Although there was a growing groundswell So my next number is 90%. That represents the of support for women’s suffrage before the First World percentage of statues in London depicting men. That War,the contentious issue of the parliamentary campaign is clearly unfair to all the female talent that we have to was not whether women should be able to vote, but inspire us, and I have my own suggestion for who the how many. All the political parties were anxious about next candidate for a plinth should be. I am sure many extending the franchise because of how it would affect of us have been approached by Bee Rowlatt, chair of them. the Mary on the Green campaign, to erect a statue on Willoughby Dickinson was a Liberal MP—later a the green outside Parliament of Mary Wollstonecraft, Labour Member of this House—who dedicated his who fought for women’s suffrage a full century before entire parliamentary career to winning women the Millicent Fawcett commended her as the “leader in the vote. According to the Vote 100 historian in Parliament, battle”. If there is one thing the Minister could agree he was the only MP with a perfect voting record on 1809 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1810 women’s suffrage. He introduced the first Bill of the many and, as the results became clear, I could hardly 1906 Parliament and reintroduced it every year until bear to crawl out from under the duvet. the outbreak of war. He called for equal pay for But here we are, and having picked ourselves up women in 1903, secured financial support for the and dusted ourselves down, we are ready to support masses of women who were left widowed by the war the next generation of talented women. I am today and protected the rights of women who were married delighted to welcome Women2Win’s new co-chair,Mark to foreign citizens imprisoned during the war. He was Harper, former Chief Whip in another place. For us in a crucial member of the Speaker’s Conference, chaired the Conservative Party our pipeline remains challenging, in 1916-17 by the grandfather of the noble Viscount, so if any of your Lordships know someone you think Lord Ullswater, the recommendations of which finally would make a good MP, please encourage her to step led to the Act which we celebrate tomorrow. up and start the journey. If she is a Conservative, Through his years of parliamentary campaigning, please send her our way.The #AskHerToStand campaign Dickinson had the franchise knowledge, the cross-party needs to be supported by all who care about diversity contacts and the experience of suffrage debates to of experience in Parliament. produce a solution to the deadlock. He emerged as I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to deal the conference’s deal breaker, winning a majority of with the issue of abuse, and I understand that she will one vote by suggesting that age be used as the spell out her plans in greater detail tomorrow. No one discriminatory barrier. Millicent Fawcett’s NUWSS standing for public office should be treated with anything wrote to him, saying: but respect. It is an honourable thing to aspire to “We all know that a very large part of the great triumph of represent one’s community, and women in particular this week was due to your personal efforts … we always felt that should be encouraged rather than bullied. We should you were our true champion in the House of Commons”. never allow our public discourse to become toxified, He wrote in his diary: and we should stand for decency and tolerance. I urge “The House of Commons passed the third reading of the the Labour Party to sign a similar behavioural pledge Representation of the People Act without one protest. The greatest to the one we are committed to. We also need to be measure of reform since 1832 ... It is ten and a half years since I aware of the barriers that women who want to work in first introduced my Women’s Suffrage Bill and now at last I see Parliament still face, including working between multiple something done. I feel as if I had not lived in vain”. locations, balancing caring responsibilities with long For him, this campaign was not merely matter of and demanding working hours, and ensuring their justice; he was also motivated by the fact that his financial stability while pursuing election. sister, an eminent doctor who worked behind the lines Even today people sometimes ask me, “Why does it in Serbia during the war, could not vote while he matter if there are more women in Parliament?”. could. How proud he must have been to see his daughter, Conservatives are, sadly, at 21%, Labour is at 45% and my grandmother, take her seat in 1937 as the 33rd ever Parliament at 32%. It matters because women are woman MP, and how proud I am of them both today. different. Their life experiences are not the same as I hope they would be pleased that I have taken on their men’s. They are neither superior, nor inferior, but fight, which today we still need to win. different, and that difference has to be better reflected Therefore, although we can celebrate the fact that here in Parliament. 489 women MPs have been elected since they were able to stand in 1918, compared, as the noble Baroness, 3.53 pm Lady Gale, said, to the 4,503 men over that same Baroness Prosser (Lab): My Lords, I am pleased to period, there is still much to be done. Today, one-third be part of this debate, in which across the Benches of of MPs are women—better, but by no means good the House we recall an historic event and remember enough. Noble Lords will be aware that, thanks to some of the brave and foresighted women who made all-women shortlists, the Labour Party has already change happen. reached 45% and is committed to a target of 50%. Opposition to women’s suffrage came, of course, When we went into the election in May last year from all quarters. The Labour and trade union movement with 70 Conservative women MPs—up from 17 in did not much like the idea because these women were 2005, when Theresa May and I founded Women2Win— upper class, posh, and most likely to side with the and with 30 candidates in good target seats, I felt Tories if they came into the House. Equally, the concept pretty confident. The polls showed us winning most, if of feminism was neither universally popular nor widely not all of those and, looking ahead to the election understood. Rebecca West is quoted as saying: beyond that, we were confident that a substantial “I myself have never been able to find out precisely what number of old, white men would pack it in and Feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever women candidates would be in a good position to get I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat”. selected for many of those retirement seats—job We have been there. Then there were those women done. I, too, could retire. But it was not to be. Not a who felt the whole argument had nothing much to do single one of those target seats was won by a woman, with them: women with no money, too many children and the additional challenge we were not expecting is and no independence. It is no wonder that people said the 30 ex-MPs who may be looking to return to at the time that the coming of electricity was a greater Parliament at the next election. In addition to not liberator than the suffrage. winning those target seats, many Conservative women However, the point of increased representation or candidates received disproportionately vicious abuse, participation in either Parliament or public life generally online and in the constituencies. Resilient they may be, was about more than the numbers; it was to bring but the whole experience had been far from joyous for about change and to bring a different perspective to 1811 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1812

[BARONESS PROSSER] I cannot conclude my remarks without quickly the debate, with different experiences being brought to mentioning all-women shortlists, which have already the table. That was the high intention but change was been referred to. These were another recognition that a long time coming. there comes a time when softly, softly is simply not In the 1940s, women in the Transport and General enough to bring about the change that is required. Workers’Union held a conference. The general secretary However, we will not be defeated. Let us remember the of the day, one Arthur Deakin, was asked why so few words of Charlotte Whitton, who was the first woman women were employed by the union to work as organisers. mayor of Ottawa. She said: He replied that every woman had the same opportunity “Whatever women do, they must do twice as well as men to be as every man to apply and to be brought forward for thought half as good”. interview. Over 40 years later, when I was appointed to Then she said: work as the national women’s secretary, the union had “Luckily, this is not difficult”. about 2 million members. There were 400 paid organisers, of whom four, including me, were women. So much 3.59 pm for the equal chance. That was an in-your-face example Baroness Benjamin (LD): My Lords, I rise to speak of wishful thinking going nowhere. in this important debate and declare an interest as a When Bill Morris—my noble friend Lord Morris of woman who, like other noble Baronesses speaking Handsworth—became deputy general-secretary, he and here today, has had a long journey to reach this I introduced a series of positive actions designed to get Chamber. Many of us, as we stand on the summit of more women involved in the work of the union and life’s mountain looking down at the valley of experience, instituted programmes which were important to women, think, “Who would have thought?”. such as the Full-Time Rights for Part-Time Workers In 1966 I started my journey as a lowly clerk in the campaign. Every region had to employ a women’s chief accountant’s office of Barclays Bank, a place organiser and run women-only education and training dominated by men in grey suits and bowler hats. At programmes. These programmes were intended to get that time it was my ambition to become the first black women on to the union ladder. After initial separation, woman bank manager in the country. Sadly, it did not they would then join the mixed programmes. “Separate take me long to realise that there is a difference between to integrate”, we said. ambition and fantasy. I did, however, cause uproar when I dared to go to work wearing a trouser suit That brings me to the situation today. As far as I instead of the obligatory skirt. Many of my female can tell, all and any pieces of legislation or policy colleagues soon copied me, much to the consternation designed to improve the position of women in society of our male counterparts. have been introduced by various Labour Governments. My noble friend Lady Gale has already mentioned In 1981, at the height of my career as a regular some areas of legislation, such as the Equal Pay Act presenter on BBC children’sprogrammes,getting pregnant and the Sex Discrimination Act, and the Social Chapter was considered a serious error of judgment. In those was also brought in. It was a wonderful basket of days it was almost certain that it would be the end of initiatives designed to enable women to participate your career,as you were expected to disappear gracefully, more fully in the world of work. with babe in arms, to a life of wifely domestic servitude. Pregnant women were certainly not to be seen below I cannot find any such initiatives which have been the waist on television when their pregnancy started to introduced by a Conservative Government, and therein become evident. Fortunately for me I had a visionary lies the rub, because just like the situation I have producer, Cynthia Felgate, who at one time was in the described from all those years ago in the T&G, women’s Guinness book of records for producing the most lives will not improve as compared to those of men television programmes in the world. She allowed me to unless positive action is taken. In fact, the coalition continue working and presenting until I was eight Government of 2010 actually did away with programmes months pregnant. This was unheard of and made which were going very well at the time. The Women national and international news. I was seen by millions and Work Sector Pathways Initiative was a programme of viewers fully pregnant, and once I even stopped designed to improve women’s employment skills and mid-dance to declare, “I can feel the baby kicking”—the was vigorously supported by employers, both financially children watching loved that moment. Other female and practically. It trained or retrained more than presenters were grateful for this pivotal moment, because 25,000 women, enabling them to move up the ladder they, too, could become pregnant and carry on working or move into work, but it was done away with in a onscreen throughout their pregnancy. swipe. It was around 1968, living through the civil rights That initiative came out of the Women and Work movement and the race riots here in Britain, when I Commission report, presented to the then Prime Minister started to become conscious that more women’s voices in February 2004. All 40 of its recommendations were were needed in politics. So I organised political meetings accepted by government and a general programme and events for fellow Caribbeans in London who felt proceeded, including, for example,looking with employers excluded from society—something that the legendary at ways in which better-quality part-time work could Claudia Jones had earlier fought against by establishing be provided, training programmes, as I have mentioned, the West Indian Gazette and the creation of what we and initiatives in schools to get more girls into STEM all know now as the Notting Hill Carnival. Because of subjects. I get slightly fed up with discussions on the these influences, over the years I began to speak out gender pay gap when there is a pretty clear and well- more and more: I wrote letters to political leaders and trodden area of debate as to how to help eliminate it. campaigned on issues such as seat belts on school 1813 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1814 buses, diversity in publishing and in the media, and, that recently two of our public service broadcasters for 20 years, for a Minister for Children—until we appointed female chief executives. I hope that they are finally got one. It is such a shame that that position paid equally to their male counterparts. has now been downgraded from a full ministerial post. Many women have banged on the doors of inequality I hope that the Government will reconsider this change and continually tried to break down barriers. We have and correct this short-sighted mistake. been told to shut up or we would never work again, to There have been many women who have been back off and know our place—but that has never motivational to others and acted as mentors. One in deterred us from fighting for equality and fairness. My particular for me was the late inspirational and visionary mother was a housewife and did not have the chance Marchioness of Lothian—Tony Lothian as she was to have a career in public life, but had she lived in affectionately known. She influenced thousands of today’s world she would have made it right to the top. women’s lives. She was a journalist, a writer,a benevolent She was a determined and remarkable woman. So we force for good and the founder of the Women of must never underestimate the value of women of her the Year lunch. She was awarded an OBE for services generation, who nurtured, guided and influenced their to women, which she treasured and considered her girl children to reach for the sky, and made huge greatest achievement. She believed in bringing women sacrifices in doing so. together from all over the world, from all creeds and We can all personally do our bit to inspire, motivate classes, and from all social, religious and financial and pave the way for future generations by encouraging backgrounds. She fought for liberty, peace, fairness young girls and women to experience environments and equality. such as Parliament by inviting them here to visit this She set up the Women of the Year lunch to highlight Chamber to see for themselves the differences being the efforts of women who were changing the world made by women in public and political life. We need to and making a difference and to recognise the contribution write books about our personal experiences—or at that they were making to public and political life. But least keep diaries so that future generations can measure in 1955, when she decided to celebrate professional progress. women’s achievements with a lunch that would raise One of the most extraordinary women of our times funds for the blind, she was told condescendingly that is Her Majesty the Queen, a woman dedicated to she would be lucky to find 50 women to attend. She duty who is a record breaker on several fronts. No found 500 and the lunch has continued to this day, other monarch, male or female, has achieved or will with thousands of women from all walks of life being ever achieve what she has—at least not in the next acknowledged. 100 years. I am an optimist, so I look forward to the Many occupations and professions that were closed day when matters such as the struggle for equality to women simply because of their gender are now and lack of diversity are looked on with a degree of annually celebrated. Among the guests are pilots, train bemused nostalgia, and when the contribution of drivers, engineers and of course Prime Ministers—a women in Parliament, business and public life in position women could only dream about back in 1955, general is regarded as entirely normal. That day is fast when women were not even elevated to the peerage approaching and, as I reach the age of 69, I am so here in this Chamber. Women leave the lunch feeling pleased, proud and privileged to have lived and worked that they want to inspire others and to press the reset through an era when huge changes have taken place in button for change. women’s rights. I hope that I survive long enough to see the day when sexism, misogyny, gender inequality, But it is sad to think that, 63 years on, an event sexual harassment and violence against women are such as the Women of the Year lunch is still necessary consigned to the dustbin of history where they truly because that resistant glass ceiling still exists, especially belong. for women of colour who, as they progress up the ladder of society, are often asked, “What are you 4.07 pm doing here?”—or they get “the look”. Women of colour know that look. It is the look that says it all. A Lord Lexden (Con): My Lords, I would like to few years ago, when I put myself forward for a board contribute a few historical reflections to a debate that position, I was told, “Who do you think you are, rising so clearly invites them, as my noble friend Lady Jenkin above your station?” of Kennington demonstrated so movingly, along with my noble friend Lady Vere, who introduced this debate Do not get me wrong: things have slowly changed so powerfully. over the last 100 years and we are gradually reaching a My starting point is that posterity is sometimes state of equality nirvana. It is great to see so many inclined to give undue credit for great advances in women now being propelled into high-level positions political and public affairs to those who campaigned in public and political life, at local level and here in for them in dramatic and memorable ways.The suffragettes Parliament. That includes women of colour, too—but live on vividly in the public mind, immortalised in not enough. literature and in film. The bravery and courage One of the many challenges that women sometimes they showed in the face of harsh treatment by the have to contend with when they reach new heights is authorities will always command widespread admiration. that they are so often judged differently from men and But their militant campaign in the years before the have to work harder to prove themselves. Opportunity First World War did not mark the vital turning point. is what we all need to make progress, to be all-embracing One of the objectives of all that is going to be done and not to be tribal, defensive and protective. I always this year to celebrate the centenary of a great get excited when I see real progress, so I was thrilled parliamentary reform, and the subsequent if incomplete 1815 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1816

[LORD LEXDEN] They proved especially successful in winning election progress that it made possible, should be to ensure to school boards and Poor Law boards. After 1907, all that this achievement is seen in a clearer historical local authorities were open to them. perspective. Furthermore, the Tory party itself had provided What happened 100 years ago represented above all significant roles for women since the 1880s. About 1 victory for the law-abiding suffragists, led by Millicent million of them worked with great commitment in the Fawcett, a woman who retained the respect of Gladstone Primrose League, the largest voluntary mass movement and his Liberal Party after parting from them over Britain had yet seen, often taking charge of a branch, Irish home rule and becoming a prominent Liberal of which there were some 2,300 in all. After 1918 the Unionist in alliance with the Tory party. She and her party swiftly created an elaborate organisation of its supporters,some 50,000 strong and thus far outnumbering own throughout the country. It provided many the suffragettes, waited a long time for their triumph. opportunities for women. I got to know well one of It was in 1897 that their effective advocacy of their the first women constituency agents as she approached cause first secured a Commons majority for the principle her 100th birthday, which was duly celebrated here in of women’s suffrage. Legislation did not pass because the Lords with Margaret Thatcher. She would have made successive Governments failed to give it priority.Winston a fine MP,but found fulfilment in another political sphere. Churchill and others opposed it tooth and nail, and Tory women in Parliament during those early years opinions differed as to the property and residence regarded themselves as part of a wider movement requirements which women should meet in order to within and beyond the party. Nancy Astor became a vote, as my noble friend Lady Jenkin of Kennington national celebrity with her exuberant feminist views. mentioned. “I married beneath me”, she declared, “All women When the suffragettes came on the scene, support do”. Katharine Atholl was admired for her diligence for women’s suffrage in the Commons slipped. It is as a junior Education Minister, later exhibiting great hard to argue that law-breaking assisted the cause. independence of spirit as a supporter of the republican Millicent Fawcett never wavered in her opposition to cause in Spain. Mavis Tate worked with women in violent methods. It is surely right that her memory other parties on campaigns for equal rights. They and should be honoured this year by a statue, the first of a others were all resourceful pioneers. woman to be erected in Parliament Square. I hope that Baldwin once said that Conservatives must be it will stimulate greater interest in her remarkable capable of, career, which spanned a period of more than 60 years “continuous adaptation to the ever-changing facts of social life”. and encompassed many other causes besides women’s But as Conservatives have adapted over the years they suffrage. have held firmly to the principle on which Margaret The Conservative Party was prominently associated Thatcher, the greatest of all Conservative women, with the 1918 Act. Its leading politicians dominated insisted: merit should determine the positions women Lloyd George’s coalition Government, who were occupy in public life, just as it should for men. responsible for the legislation. In marking its centenary, Tories today will be deeply conscious that this is also the 90th anniversary of the Equal Franchise Act 1928, 4.16 pm a more far-reaching measure which gave the vote to all Baroness Bakewell (Lab): My Lords, I am delighted women. It was made possible by the resolve of Stanley to join this already spirited and good-humoured debate— Baldwin, the first person to use the phrase “one nation”, how could it be otherwise, when we have so much in which has been incorrectly ascribed to Disraeli. Baldwin common and so much to celebrate? I will take a rather as Prime Minister in 1927-28 overcame the strong oblique look at the occasion. I will do so by virtue of opposition of his Chancellor, Winston Churchill, who the suffragette colours: violet, white and green. I see never really reconciled himself to the emergence of that the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, is in her person women in public life. In 1930 Baldwin, as a leading acknowledging those colours, which at one point were champion of the right of women to vote, unveiled the supposed to stand for,“Give women votes”, but apparently well-known statue of Mrs Pankhurst, who had been that is apocryphal. These three colours are still worn the Tory candidate for Whitechapel at the time of her in girls’ schools around the country on the occasion of death two years earlier. their founders’ days. My daughter went to Camden, For far too long, women MPs remained few in which was founded by Ms Beale, one of the great number. Some leading Tories were not content with suffragists. The suffragists set the tone for a policy that that state of affairs. They included Sir George Younger, would have to intensify with the suffragettes. the great-great-grandfather of my noble friend Lord There are still women marching in the streets of this Younger of Leckie. As chairman of the Conservative city wearing the suffragette colours. They are proud to Party in 1921, he explained that: do so. They use the suffragist methods. They are, of course, the WASPI women—the Women Against State “I have tried my very best to get certain constituencies to accept a lady candidate”, Pension Inequality. The occasion of their protest was a good one, because the whole idea was that equality adding that one constituency chairman, of pension age was overdue in fairness to men, which “wrote back saying I had given him the shock of his life”. is something, of course, that they acknowledge. But It is important to remember that by this point many the decision was a wrong one. It was implemented women were already involved in public life as members incorrectly. Steve Webb, the Minister of State at the of locally elected bodies. Women had been given the time, told us so. He said that, right to vote for and to serve on many of them in 1869. “we had to make a difficult decision”, 1817 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1818 and that, two months later, they realised that, by only this much at each election, we will not see “the implications of what we were doing … were very different equal representation in the other place until 2062—almost from what we thought … so that’s a decision that we got wrong”. another 50 years. That wrong decision affects 3.8 million women. Their failing was to be born in the early 1950s. I am proud of and commend the hard work of Women2Win, the Conservative Women’s Association WASPI’s campaigning reflects much of the suffragist and the #AskHerToStand campaign within my own movement. It has more than 140 local branches across party, seeking reform, encouraging and supporting the UK. It has a grant from the Rowntree Reform women candidates to put themselves forward, helping Trust to further political campaigning. It has the them along the bumpy road of politics. Each political support of UNISON. It delivers petitions. Last October, party needs to take responsibility to review, reform 100 MPs petitioned on its behalf, many of them, of and enact changes, but we must make sure that the course, women. It has had petitions signed around the system and the process as a whole are much more country. Some 193,000 people signed the last one. It welcoming. Women still shoulder the burden for most has had five debates in Parliament. It has had the of the caring responsibilities in the home, and thus the intervention of the ombudsman to speed up the demands of political and business life can impose an Government’s response to its requests. The most recent enormous strain on relationships. Research published Motion on this, moved by the SNP in November last in 2013 found that 45% of female MPs did not have year, passed in the Commons by 288 votes to zero. The children, compared with 28% of male MPs: there is DUP voted for the WASPI women, and five Tory clearly a motherhood gap in Parliament that needs to rebels voted for them too. This is not yesterday’s event, be considered as part of the gender gap. nor 100 years ago; it is a living campaign that has adopted and respects the methods of the suffragettes. Today, I believe it is the terrible abuse that women In the most recent debate, introduced by Ian Blackwood, are exposed to, both campaigning and online, that is it was said that these women are guilty of nothing; making them turn away. Just look at some of the they simply had the misfortune of being born female responses my noble friend Baroness Jenkin got for in the 1950s. This House knows that being born female speaking out the other day. Just look at the findings of is no answer to anything. The WASPI women are the Committee on Standards in Public Life’s report on today’s heirs of the suffragettes. intimidation in public life, which found that women, especially Conservative and BAME women, received 4.20 pm the greatest amount of abuse. Even in the 21st century, Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con): My Lords, I women seem intrinsically less confident than men and welcome this most timely debate in what I hope will be therefore need much more support and encouragement. a historic, transformational year in addressing the We need to keep looking at how our culture and barriers to women entering public life. I take great education systems continue to reinforce this lack of strength from the number of dedicated and inspirational confidence down the generations. noble Baronesses who are speaking today from all There is not enough public recognition that women’s sides of the House. I also thank the noble Lords who lives often have a different shape to men’s. Many take have stood up to be counted, for we need your help; we time out in the childrearing years, but this is sometimes will not win through alone but by getting men to misinterpreted as lack of dedication in the very male understand that parity of female representation will workplace. When they have children at home, many do create a better society for us all. Before I go further, I not wish to work the long hours demanded by City must declare my interests as honorary vice-president firms, which make their employees sign out of the EU of the Conservative Women’s Organisation, co-chair working directive. Thus they do not get promoted, or of the APPG on Women, Peace and Security and a choose to leave the industry. Some women choose to member of other organisations specialising in women’s return to the workplace when their children are older issues, as set out in the register. but often it is hard for them to get employed in a job We have already heard many statistics about women that matches their ability. in Parliament but some are worth repeating. A total of 489 women have been elected to the Commons since We know that having women involved in the policy 1918. At the general election last year, 208 women conversation and in decision-making positions makes MPs were elected: 32% of all MPs and a record high. a difference, as many issues impact differently on Prior to 1987 women had never made up more than women, who are, after all, about 50% of the population. 5% of MPs. Women were not allowed into the House I know from my experience of international women’s of Lords until 40 years after 1918, and as of last July issues in developing, conflict and post-conflict countries we make up only 26% of its Members. There can be no how important it is to have women around the doubt that progress has been made in the last 100 years, peace table and to have gender-focused humanitarian and not just in Parliament—look across our judiciary, relief, such as women and children safe spaces in the clergy, Armed Forces, police and many other areas—but Rohingya refugee camps in Bangladesh. In the business it is not enough. While 32% of MPs might be our world, female entrepreneurs and businesswomen support all-time high, this ranks us only 39th in the world for growth and stability through diversity. One need look women’s representation in Parliament: the Nordic only at the work of the 30% Club on getting women countries and Rwanda lead the pack. Last year’s general into boardrooms here in the UK or how female-led election broke the 200 barrier for the first time, but the microfinance and SMEs form the backbone of Fawcett Society highlights that this represents only a individuals’, families’ and communities’ paths out of 2% increase on the last election. If the UK improves poverty across the globe. 1819 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1820

[BARONESS HODGSON OF ABINGER] Bristol, from 1976. She was coy about her age, but she I welcome this debate. It is an excellent forum to was in her 80s and she was one of the last surviving discuss and exchange ideas, as there is still much suffragettes. Her name was Jessie Stephen. She was a further to go. I ask my noble friend the Minister: what Scot, the eldest of 11 children. Her father was a tailor. action do the Government plan to take this year to She left school at 14 and went into domestic service. further the cause? We talk smugly about how the UK She realised in no time that it was drudgery from dawn is leading on gender equality across the world, yet we to dusk and it was isolating. She had a half-day off have never nominated a woman to serve on the UN every week. She said to me, “During my afternoons Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against off, I would go around Glasgow putting incendiary Women. Doing this would demonstrate that the UK is devices into post boxes”. She was a suffragette. Although serious about gender and wishes to highlight the work I note what the noble Baroness, Lady Vere, said from of this important body.Through support to UN Women, the Government Front Bench, the suffragettes needed the UK could work with it to help evaluate the effectiveness the suffragists and the suffragists needed the suffragettes, of the UN Commission on the Status of Women. It is, and I do not make a distinction. after all, the second biggest annual meeting at the UN, At the age of 17, Jessie founded the Scottish Domestic yet we hear nothing about it. Surely this is a missed Workers’ Union and was its general secretary well into opportunity. As the Fawcett Society has asked, when the 1920s. She saw in me, she said, a reawakening on will Section 106 of the Equality Act, requiring political some of the things on which she had fought in her life, parties to collect and report monitoring data, commence? issues which she thought had become dormant in the At a time when trust in public figures is low, surely 1950s and 1960s—the issues that we were concerned it is a no-brainer that removing barriers to enable about then included access to jobs, abortion, rape, more women to enter Parliament and participate in childcare—and it pleased her no end. She used to public life will benefit our country and, critically, help reminisce with me on the fight for women’s suffrage. us achieve goal 5 of the UN sustainable development She talked about the Cat and Mouse Acts and about goals. After all, we should never forget Mrs Thatcher’s helping to organise suffragette meetings. I loved to famous words: hear, more than once, about how she helped to carry a “If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something big wicker laundry basket into meetings during the done, ask a woman”. time of the Cat and Mouse Acts. The police on the door would say “What’s in that basket?”, and the 4.27 pm organisers would carry it as if it contained what they Baroness Corston (Lab): My Lords, it is a pleasure said it contained—bunting—but it actually contained to take part in this debate, to commemorate the fact Mrs Pankhurst. They would take her to the back of that 100 years ago tomorrow certain women in the the hall and find a room. When the meeting opened, United Kingdom were enabled to vote: women over Mrs Pankhurst would appear and the police would try 30 who either owned property or were married to men to rush the platform, but there was a phalanx of who owned property—so no woman on either side of women like Jessie on the front of the platform whom my family would have been able to vote; they had to they had to negotiate while Mrs Pankhurst was spirited wait another 10 years. Indeed, seeing my noble friend away out the back. Lady Gale at the Dispatch Box today reminded me Jessie joined the Labour Party and stood for the that, in 1978, she and I were at a reception in 10 Downing council in Bermondsey in 1919, as shown in the Daily Street where we commemorated the 50th anniversary Express of 30 October of that year which recorded of universal female suffrage. As my late right honourable how many serving women were delighted to find that friend Tony Benn used to say, when you reach the age one of them was standing for election. She became of 50 you realise that a century is not a very long time. celebrated on the lecture circuit of the United States As the 168th woman elected to the House of and Canada, and when she had to dash back for an Commons, in 1992, I am conscious of the fact that in election the Liverpool Echo recorded that she had those days there were more men called John in the come back from a lecture tour. She was a woman House of Commons than women MPs. In the very whom people knew. When she was in Portsmouth, she first vote of that Parliament, we voted for the Speaker stood as a Labour candidate and reduced the Conservative and I voted for my noble friend Lady Boothroyd. In majority from 18,000 to 5,000. Although there were the Division Lobby, I saw the noble Baroness, Lady other speakers on the platform, when she finished Jowell. She and I were friends. We saw each other and speaking most of the audience would leave with her I said, “Tessa!”, and she said, “Jean!”, and we gave for her next meeting. She became the first woman each other a hug. We were overlooked by two gentlemen president of the Bristol Trades Council in 100 years, whom the Conservatives used to refer to as knights of which was no mean feat in a city characterised by the shires—they used to call them the Sir Bufton industrial workers and dockers. Tuftons—and one nudged the other and said, “Look Jessie also turned her hand to journalism. The title at this: the place is filling up with women!”. I also of one her articles particularly amused me. It is: “After want to say how fortunate I was to have Barbara the Wedding: Why Should Wives not Continue to Wootton as a friend—the first woman to sit on that Work?”. It was written in 1920. The 4 October 1919 Woolsack and the first woman life Peer. She was edition of John Bull put her down as one of the world’s absolutely a model for us all. most powerful women. I want to spend most of my speech on a woman Jessie was a parliamentary candidate three times—of whom I knew when I was the women’s organiser for course, she stood in seats that were not usually winnable. the Labour Party in the south-west region, based in I understand that because, when I was a women’s 1821 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1822 organiser in 1979, I persuaded some women to stand Some senior Liberals did, however, publicly advocate for election in the south-west of England. None of votes for women. Notable among them was Sir John them could have won, but one of my male colleagues Simon, who was at the time Liberal MP for my home in another region—who is now departed from us—said, area of the Spen Valley in Yorkshire. Eventually, the “Who’s that woman in Bristol persuading women to pressure from the many mainly women’s groups for stand for Parliament”, as if it was an offence when the vote, combined with the catastrophe that was the nobody complained about him conducting shortlists First World War, broke down the barriers, and the that were all men. coalition Government under the Liberal Lloyd George This was the wellspring of reminiscence and experience in 1918 passed the Act giving, as we have heard, only in that little house in Bedminster, Bristol, which so some women over 30 the vote. impressed me, and I am pleased to say that Bristol I now turn to the achievements of Liberal women City Council has recognised Jessie’s worth and there is in the last century in local government and some in a plaque on the wall of her house in Chessel Street, central government—first, local government, where Bedminster, recording when she lived there. She wrote things can really be changed. The renowned Elizabeth her autobiography and bequeathed her papers to me, Garrett Anderson had a trio of firsts in public life, as as she thought of me as a kind of daughter, but the first woman to sit on a school board, the first because of a misunderstanding her sister burnt them woman to be qualified as a doctor and the first woman the day after the funeral. Noble Lords can imagine the to become a mayor of a local council—a true trail-blazer distress I felt about that. But I discovered that her for women. trade union had a copy of her autobiography and some of her papers, photographs and press cuttings, Another woman I want to draw the attention of and I have deposited them in the Bristol reference your Lordships’ House to is somebody who is not library. really well known, Gertrude Elsie Taylor. She was In June 1979, the National Conference of Labour elected to Batley Borough Council in 1927. Many of Women was in Felixstowe, and I was told that Jessie your Lordships will not know Batley, but it is a male was ill and had gone to hospital. She died on 4 June, preserve. It is a woollen mill town—actually, a heavy and it is recorded that her last words were, “You’ll woollen mill town—and not the sort of place where a have to change my tablets; I am going to a women’s woman would easily succeed in public life, but Gertrude conference”. The point of all this is that we stand on Taylor did. She became the mayor of Batley in 1932. the shoulders of women like Jessie: women who nobody These women across the country laid the foundations has ever heard of but who mean so much to us. I for all of us who have been elected to local councils, wanted to record here and now that, without people and the Liberal women who were elected to Parliament such as Jessie Stephen, we would have waited even in those early years are equally to be recognised. longer for some of the privileges that we rely on today. Margaret Wintringham, who in 1924 became only the second woman MP,was elected to Louth in Lincolnshire 4.35 pm despite advocating many feminist causes. Margaret Ashton fought every election as a Liberal from 1918 to Baroness Pinnock (LD): My Lords, women’s 1935 as well as by-elections in 1937 and 1944, in an era involvement in public life and particularly in government when standing as a Liberal and standing as a woman did not begin 100 years ago. Women had some limited were not particularly to be acknowledged. She gets a franchise prior to the great leap forward achieved by special mention for flying the Liberal flag in an era the Act of 1918. Women were allowed to stand for when that was not easy to do so. election to the newly created school boards in 1870, to district and parish councils in 1893 and finally to Despite this early success and 100 years of the county councils in 1907. acceptance in principle that women could and should This gradual progress of enabling women to take be able to vote and hold high office, there is much that on responsible roles was, as can be seen, in areas where needs to change. Men still dominate both government women were deemed to have some practical knowledge. and local government. Women are often still rarely Women could contribute to social reform—and they elected to leadership roles of councils or, indeed, as did. That perspective came to define women’sinvolvement metro mayors. For instance, the noble Baroness, Lady in government at all levels for a hundred years. The Eaton, and I were the first women to be leaders of our generally accepted view, though, was that women did respective Yorkshire councils. The sad fact is that the not have the experience or, indeed, even the brain same cultural fault-line runs through our society as power for the big issues of government: taxation, 100 years ago, be it in business or government, wherever defence, foreign affairs. I think it is questionable as to major decisions are being taken. how far society has rid itself of that prejudice. Despite the best endeavours of many people and Women in the Liberal Party had long been advocates the clear progress that has been made, women are still of women’ssuffrage. By the beginning of the 20th century, not involved on an equal basis with men when it the Women’sLiberal Federation was formally committed comes to significant decision-making. Women need to to equal pay, to equality in divorce laws and in access be fully engaged in the discussions prior to the formal to all areas of employment, and of course to women’s decision-making. In my experience, that is often not right to vote on an equal basis to men. Sadly, some of the case. Until there is equal representation from all the most senior men holding power in the Liberal parts of society at the early stage of decision-making, Party opposed women’ssuffrage. The male tribal preserve in business, in government or in any other part of was to be protected. public life, then inequality will persist. 1823 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1824

[BARONESS PINNOCK] It was that weekend that subsequently led me to So let us celebrate the tremendous achievement of stand for Parliament in Oldham in the 1992 general those campaigning women over 100 years ago. Laurels election, and to meet someone else who encouraged we must grant in abundance to the many women who me to persevere. I have never subscribed to the view campaigned for the right to vote, but we women that unless you share the same politics, you cannot today should remember that laurels are not there to be share friendship. So it was that I met and came to like rested on. my opponent in that election, Bryan Davies, now the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham. He was so kind 4.42 pm to me at the count, where I inevitably lost. In his speech, he thanked me for a good campaign and said Baroness Morris of Bolton (Con): My Lords, I that he hoped that I would get to Parliament, just not thank the Government for giving time to this historic in Oldham. If only all politics was like that. debate and to my noble friend Lady Vere for opening it so eloquently. If my mother had still been alive, she The advances made by women over the past 100 years would have been 102 years old today. She was born in would never have happened without the help of 1916 into a world where women were not allowed to enlightened men, as we heard from my noble friend vote, and born to a mother who, although she was Lady Jenkin of Kennington. I am sure her great- poor and worked in a cotton mill, was highly political. grandfather would have been very proud of everything It would be 1928 before my grandmother and all other she does today. I know that my work as vice-chairman women over the age of 21 had the vote, but she for candidates would have been that much harder celebrated, as do we, the vote given to some 6 million without the wise counsel of my noble friend Lord eligible women after many years of struggle and sacrifice. Taylor of Holbeach, who was dedicated to getting We should not forget that the Representation of the more women into Parliament. After all, we had no People Act 1918 also widened the franchise for men, shortage of young men beating a path to our door and it had in it proposals for proportional representation. looking to fill in that awkward gap between leaving As the Manchester Guardian headline on 7 February university and becoming Prime Minister. I am delighted 1918 read: “Reform Bill Passed: Women’s Vote Won that my honourable friend Kemi Badenoch now has … Alternative Vote Definitely Rejected”. the role of vice-chairman for candidates. I know she My grandmother may not have got the vote in 1918 will do it brilliantly and I wish her well. but that did not stop her keen interest in politics. Over History will rightly praise David Cameron for the the years, due to deaths and remarriage, she ended up way he changed the face of the Conservative Party, the mother and stepmother to 14 children. By any but if it had not been for the drive and determination measure she lived in poverty but she and her family of my right honourable friend Iain Duncan Smith, had a wealth of love and generosity, and no matter with his resolve that the party must look and sound how many mouths my granny had to feed there was more like the country it wished to represent, and always something left for someone else in the street attract more women and ethnic-minority candidates, who might not be well or had lost a loved one. People all the exciting progress my party has made would came to her for advice and help with their children have been that much harder to achieve. The progress and even with the birth of their children. She was we have made from 2005 to today is in large part down simply a one-woman welfare state—and she was a to the wonderful Women2Win, which I had the pleasure staunch Tory. of co-chairing for a short time. It was formed after the I mention this to highlight the countless women 2005 election when, although we had far more talented over the years who, had their circumstances been women on our candidates list, many of whom are now different, would have made a significant contribution in the Commons or your Lordships’ House, serving as to public and national life, and I join the noble Baroness, Ministers and members of the Cabinet—some of them Lady Benjamin, in paying tribute to them. That is why are sitting not far away from me now—we had not those of us who have been lucky to play our part have made the electoral breakthrough that we needed to a responsibility to do all we can to motivate and make a significant difference. support women to take the opportunities afforded to I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, them. who is not in her place, that she is plain wrong when it I doubt there is one woman in your Lordships’ comes to the Prime Minister’s support of women. The House today who would be here without the founders of Women2Win—my right honourable friend championship of other women. As the noble Baroness, the Prime Minister and my noble friend Lady Jenkin Lady Corston, said, we stand on shoulders. I know of Kennington—both knew that it would not be easy, that I would not be here without my noble friend Lady but they threw everything into searching for new talent Seccombe—like many women in the Conservative Party, and then training and nurturing that talent, and our I owe a huge debt of gratitude to her—although I party and Parliament are much the richer for their efforts. might not have had the benefit of her support without Of course, it started before 2005 for the Prime Barbara Porter. Barbara was chairman of the Bolton Minister, who in her previous position as the first West Conservative Association, and she sent me off woman chairman of the Conservative Party pioneered on a cold and foggy November weekend—with great a number of radical initiatives to shake up the selection reluctance on my part, it has to be said—to a training process for candidates. That included the first-ever session for women in West Bromwich, which turned open primary, in Warrington South in November 2003, out to be the catalyst for all that followed. I owe her which resulted in a woman candidate for the Conservatives. heartfelt thanks for pushing me out of my comfort She never shied away from facing down complacency zone. and prejudice, and I am therefore not at all surprised 1825 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1826 that the Prime Minister will use this historic centenary, and the first Labour women MPs were elected in the when we celebrate the bravery of those who fought so 1923 general election—Margaret Bondfield, Dorothy hard for the extension of women’s rights, to highlight Jewson and Susan Lawrence. the pressure and abuse facing women—and many The first time women and men had equal voting men—today as they exercise their freedom to express rights came in 1928, with the Representation of the their political views, which some would seek to deny People (Equal Franchise) Act. We are the beneficiaries them. of the Life Peerages Act 1958, referred to by the noble In 2002, I was interviewed by Simon Mayo on Baroness, Lady Vere, in her spirited introduction. It Radio 5 Live about how the Conservative Party was saw the creation of peerages for women for the first going to attract more women. I was asked the inevitable time. By the end of 1958 there were 884 male Peers question about all-women shortlists, and I was just and four women Peers. We have come a long way—but about to give my stock Conservative answer when I not far enough. decided to say something different: “Whatever your As we know, Margaret Thatcher became the first views on all-women shortlists, you cannot deny the woman Prime Minister in 1979, nearly 40 years ago. impact they made”—and, they did. The numbers could Baroness Young became the first female Leader of the no longer be ignored and it meant that the rest of us, House of Lords in 1981—a popular practice now on in our own way, had to step up our game. We have both sides of the House. Betty Boothroyd was our first come a long way since 2005, but in the words of the woman Speaker of the House of Commons in 1992. trailer on Channel 4 for its all-girls special of “The The noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, is very much an Secret Life of 5 Year Olds” to mark 100 years of active Member of your Lordships’ House and was on women’s suffrage: “A lot has changed, but we are not her feet yet again last week, making a powerful there yet”. intervention on the EU (Withdrawal) Bill. Of course, another very important first for us was my noble 4.51 pm friend Lady Hayman becoming the first woman Lord Baroness Crawley (Lab): My Lords, it is a pleasure Speaker in 2006. to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Bolton, To tack back a bit, by 1945 the total number of who has always worked hard to promote women in her female MPs elected since 1918 had increased to 77. party, and it is a delight to take part in this unique Here in the Lords in 1963 there was legislation to debate. I am much encouraged by the many activities enable the first woman hereditary Peer to take her and events that Parliament and the Government have seat—and so Baroness Strange, who I had the pleasure so far planned for this exciting anniversary year. of knowing, and who was a great campaigner for I can remember talking to my grandmother, Sarah widows’ pension rights, became the first to take her Ryan, about how proud she was of her first chance, in seat. Of course, the noble Countess, Lady Mar, remains 1918, to vote and how she got quite irritated with my a very active Peer today. No female hereditary Peer in grandfather, who thought she might not know how to, her own right has ever been admitted to the House and tried to come in with her to show her. The through the hereditary by-elections—another reason Representation of the People Act 1918, it could be to see the back of them. argued, was the most significant piece of legislation In graph 1, available to us in the House of Lords for women in the history of our country, as it opened Library’s excellent briefing for this debate, we see that the door to our democratic participation. After so the pivotal year for a significant increase in women’s many years of reasoned debate and persuasion falling numbers in Parliament was 1997, when Labour won on deaf male ears,the civil disobedience and imprisonment the general election and increased hugely the number of the suffragettes and then the war years when the of women elected—the result of all-women shortlists, banners were swapped for spanners in the arms factories as noble Lords have said, and other promotional of the First World War, in 1918 women started—I activities within the Labour Party to see more women realise it was only a start—pushing open the door in Parliament. That is a very good reason to keep towards full parliamentary participation. all-women shortlists going beyond their sell-by date of The Representation of the People Act, of course, as 2030, as called for by my noble friend Lady Gale in her my noble friend Lady Corston said, was only for excellent introduction. women who had access to or owned property, and The 1997 election saw 13 Conservative women elected, only for women over the age of 30. How patronising. 101 Labour women elected and three Lib Dem women But it was thrilling anyway for millions of women such elected. That was the year when the force of scale as my grandmother. So, along with the Parliament really mattered for the first time in women’s influence (Qualification of Women) Act 1918, which gave women in the Commons—although, of course, there had been the right to stand for election to the House of Commons many very important individual women’s contributions for the first time, the long lists of firsts began. Countess up to that point. I remember very clearly and worked Markievicz of Sinn Fein was the first woman to be with the redoubtable Baroness Barbara Castle, for elected to Parliament—but refused, in that Sinn Fein instance. At the moment, I am writing a piece about a tradition, to take her seat. Nancy Astor was the first terrific Birmingham MP of the 1970s called Doris woman to take her seat, as the result of her husband’s Fisher. So, yes, in all parties there were many significant by-election in Plymouth Sutton in 1919. Plymouth is a individuals, but I believe that 1997 marked a turning city I love and grew up in, and I can remember my point in the influence and political heft as far as mother saying how she had met Nancy Astor, and women were concerned—and so began another round how she had been “quite a character”. In 1921 Margaret of firsts. Margaret Beckett was the first woman Foreign Wintringham became the first Liberal woman MP, Secretary in 2006. The first female Home Secretary, 1827 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1828

[BARONESS CRAWLEY] for both Houses of Parliament. In bodies where that is Jacqui Smith, was appointed in 2007, and the first used, more women are elected. As the noble Baroness, female Attorney-General, my noble and learned friend Lady Gale, said, in the National Assembly for Wales, Lady Scotland—and here in your Lordships’ House in just over two-fifths—42%—of Members are women. 2015 the first female Bishop, the right reverend Prelate In the Scottish Parliament, just over one-third—35%—of the Bishop of Gloucester. Of course, we look forward Members are women. In the Northern Ireland Assembly, to welcoming our first female Black Rod, Sarah Clarke, 30% of Members are women. Following the 2014 very shortly. European Parliament elections, women account for So we have come a long way, here in the mother of 41% of UK MEPs. An elected second Chamber using Parliaments, but we must not forget the many hundreds a system of fair votes would transform this House, of women councillors, referred to by the noble Baroness, where only a quarter of the Peers are women. We keep Lady Pinnock, and MEPs, who represent people so talking of the figure of 489 women who have been well locally and internationally—although, unfortunately, elected to the other place so far,but we should remember our MEPs will soon be gone. Although we have come that they would still not fill all the available seats. We a long way, the place of women in the modern body are still hugely unrepresented. The Green Party politic is a complex one. We share the general lack of parliamentarians are 100% women, but there are only trust and disillusion meted out to most politicians, but two of us. we are picked out for particularly vicious abuse and Whatever your take on the results of the European vitriol on social media and elsewhere. At its most Union referendum, where every single vote counted, extreme, we witnessed the terrible death of Jo Cox MP. wherever it was cast, it showed that if you give people We have seen women MPs standing up for other a say and give them a vote that means something. women, in the recent #MeToo and #TimesUp campaigns, They can be very political indeed, as citizens who feel and that must continue. that they can be genuine agents for change or not. The legislation that women MPs have worked on Here in the UK, we no longer have agents of the state down the decades on equal pay, access to justice and arresting women and torturing them by force-feeding. maternity leave, and against violence against women, However, we have undercover police invading the lives has without doubt helped improve women and girls’ of innocent women and using them in a systematic lives in this country—but the pace of change and of attempt to get information about campaigners. Those cultural change has often been glacial. But that, as women were lied to and there were even children born we know, is no reason to give up. In education we of those liaisons. The “spy cops” case is once again in must continue to be vigilant to guard against any the High Court. At 9 am today, I stood outside the cultural or religious restrictions placed on girls’ lives. High Court protesting about the case in which the Met On pay, we have only to look at the current fight to is blocking every move it possibly can to hide the close the pay gap at the BBC to realise that there is so identities of the police officers involved. The Met still much more to do. My own bugbear is the effect of refuses to see the illegality of its position and its Brexit on women’s rights—and so the fight goes on. actions. There is much to celebrate in this anniversary year, but We also have example after example of online trolls much to make us all even more determined than ever hounding and abusing women—and it seems mostly not to give up the fight. As Barbara Castle would say, to happen to women. Anonymous rape and death “Keep the faith”. threats are not pleasant and must be taken very seriously. In America, the #MeToo campaign has highlighted 5 pm the systematic abuse of women by powerful men, including their President, condemned by his own boastful Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP): My Lords, words. this debate has been a pleasure and it has been entertaining. One cannot often say that about debates Here in the UK, we had the Presidents Club fiasco in your Lordships’ House. It is a pleasure to follow the last month, showing that the #MeToo and #TimesUp noble Baroness, Lady Crawley,who outlined the progress campaigns are vital for us here as well. Over the that has been made, but also said that progress has weekend, there were reports of the Freemasons here in been glacial. I do not want to bring the mood down Parliament: journalists, parliamentarians and staff—a too far but would like to outline some of the problems male bastion of privilege and cosy, women-excluding that society still has in this regard. creepiness that I cannot imagine. Freemasonry records show New Welcome Lodge, set up for MPs, Peers and I am sure all your Lordships know that society is parliamentary staff, and Gallery Lodge, for the political still extremely unequal as regards women’s place in it. press corps. Both remain active, according to the Therefore, we still have a long way to go. I wish to Guardian. Apparently, New Welcome Lodge has about make some suggestions about how we can speed up 30 to 40 members, of whom only around four are that process. A lot of noble Lords have quoted people. understood to be MPs, while none is a Peer. Well done, I should like to quote Theresa May, who said: gentlemen. “There are women who gave up their lives to have the right to vote in this country and people who yearn, across the world, to The WASPI women are another classic case of have this freedom and so we should use it”. inequality and injustice that we ought to be discussing That is absolutely true. We are incredibly lucky that we more. have got as far as we have here. However, if we really In 1913, Emmeline Pankhurst said that the vote valued the vote, we would make sure that elections would create equality for women. We know now that were fair and not stitched up by an archaic voting that is not the case, but it opened up the possibility of system. Weneed a system of proportional representation equality, if women choose to make their self-interest a 1829 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1830 priority on issues such as pay and childcare. It says a acknowledged when the Act was going through the lot about the society that we live in that it still has to be Commons. There was no real opposition to letting mostly women who speak out on those issues. women stand at the age of 21. The reason the franchise When we talk about women’s equality, there is was restricted to women aged 30 and over was to always the Thatcher and May question: is it not great ensure that women remained in a minority in the to see women in positions of power? Strong women electorate in the immediate post-war period. That have emerged in recent years and they have had to reasoning, of course, was irrelevant to the qualifying struggle against the odds in their parties, though not age for election to the House of Commons. in the Green Party, obviously. Having Arlene Foster as Thus, we should be acknowledging in the Motion leader of the DUP, however, does not make it a force the Parliament (Qualification of Women) Act 1918. for liberal politics and feminism. It is not a bad thing That was the measure that enabled women to enter the to have different types of people, but I would like House of Commons. As we know—it has already young women to be inspired by different role models, been touched on—it did not exactly open the floodgates such as, for example, Caroline Lucas—who would be a to women being elected as MPs. This brings me to my much better Prime Minister than Theresa May—Nicola second point. There may not have been quantity in Sturgeon in Scotland, or Leanne Wood of Plaid Cymru. numbers but there was quality. Some of the women There are 10 male Peers speaking in this debate and I elected to Parliament in the inter-war years made a congratulate them on standing up today. I shall listen significant contribution to the nation’s politics. The carefully to what they have to say. It is obvious that we House of Commons may not have seemed a conducive women cannot do it all on our own; it is incredibly environment for the few women MPs elected in this important that we have the support of men. period. Some, though, did take to it, and with effect. I close with a last word from the Local Government Nancy Astor was obviously high-profile and capable Association, whose Be a Councillor campaign, of giving as good as she got. However, she did not “works with councils, political parties, individuals and talent-spotters achieve as much as some other women MPs. to encourage more people to stand as local councillors. It is Three years ago, I gave the Speaker’s Lecture on important that local government reflects the communities it represents”— Eleanor Rathbone,the independent MP for the Combined I cannot emphasise that enough— English Universities from 1929 until her untimely death in 1946. She was the first woman to be elected as “and the Be A Councillor campaign includes a focus on encouraging woman and under-represented groups to engage with and enter an independent and remains the only woman to have politics”. served as an independent MP throughout her However far we have come, we still have a long way to parliamentary career. She knew how to use Parliament go. Things such as this debate will enable us to see a to get what she wanted, and she enjoyed it. When the more equal society. House got a little unruly, she confessed to Mary Stocks that she, 5.08 pm “rather liked the House when it is in this rollicking mood, though Lord Norton of Louth (Con): My Lords, I decided I suppose it would shock a serious critic of Parliament”. to speak in this debate because it is important for She knew how to use procedure and how to pursue some males to contribute. I have one or two things to Ministers, not just in the Chamber but in the Corridor. say and, as has been referred to, the second woman to As Harold Nicolson recalled, she would stalk through take her seat in the House of Commons was returned the corridors, weighed down with her papers, to waylay for Louth, in a by-election in 1921, following the death Ministers, who in time became to view her approaching of her husband, Tom. figure with some trepidation. As Susan Pedersen wrote The first of my two points is to draw attention to of her: the somewhat anomalous wording of the Motion. The “She was, simply, implacable; and, since she was well-placed, Representation of the People Act was enacted in 1918. impossible to shut up, and immune from party discipline, officials Women have been able to stand for election to the and ministers had no alternative but to deal with her. But when House of Commons since 1918. However, they have they did so, they often found, to their surprise, that she was not been able to stand for election by virtue of that neither fanatical nor impractical, but flexible, imaginative and Act. The qualifying age for election to public office is terrifyingly good on the details”. dealt with in separate legislation from that governing Her achievements were remarkable. She is credited the franchise, and the Representation of the People with getting family allowances introduced—the Family Act left unchanged the ineligibility of women to stand Allowances Act was enacted shortly before she died—but for election to the House of Commons. It was eight she did much else beside. She was amazingly prescient months after the Act received Royal Assent that the in recognising the dangers posed by Nazi Germany. House of Commons approved, by 274 votes to 25, the Six weeks after Hitler became German Chancellor, Motion: she was on her feet in the House, warning of the “That, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that a Bill be dangers. She fought hard for refugees: with three other passed forthwith making women eligible as Members of MPs, she set up a Parliamentary Committee on Refugees. Parliament”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/10/1918; col. 785.] She fought to improve the condition of women in The Bill to give effect to this wish had one clause and India. She became a champion for the creation of received Royal Assent the following month, on what became the State of Israel. She demonstrated 21 November. As there was no reference to age in the real stamina in pursuing her goals—all the more measure, the minimum qualifying age was deemed the remarkable for the fact that she was first elected to the same as that for men: 21. The omission appears not to House of Commons at the age of 57. According to have been an oversight, as the implication was one of her biographers, she was the most significant 1831 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1832

[LORD NORTON OF LOUTH] of Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters Christabel woman in British politics in the first half of the and Sylvia drop off the tongues of anyone remotely 20th century. As I said in my lecture, one can identify a interested in such history, but I want to concentrate on “look at me” politician, driven by ego, and an “I want someone who I think deserves similar recognition but to get things done” politician, driven by values. The gets infinitely less. Her name is Annie Kenney. She was two types are not mutually exclusive, but Eleanor brought up in Oldham, the town which I had the Rathbone was a pristine example of the latter. privilege to represent in the Commons some time ago. Rathbone was thus distinctive, though she was not She started off as a mill girl in one of over 400 mills unique in being a female MP who made a mark in the which Oldham—the cotton king of England—boasted inter-war years. She worked with the Conservative of at that time. Annie always bore the scars of that MP, the Duchess of Atholl, to evacuate some work. Just as miners often have the tips of fingers 4,000 children from Spain during the civil war. The chopped off through the dangers of their work, women duchess resigned her seat in 1938 to fight a by-election mill workers lost fingers through controlling the bobbins in opposition to the Government’spolicy on appeasement. on looms in the factories, and Annie suffered from On the Labour side, there were politicians such as that handicap. It is about the only handicap that she “Red” Ellen Wilkinson and, of course, Margaret ever recognised because, my goodness, she was a woman Bondfield, who was the first woman to serve in the of considerable spirit. Cabinet. There is presently a proposal to erect a statue of They all deserve credit for demonstrating that women Annie in Parliament Square in Oldham. It is a very could do just as good a job as men in the House of fine square. On one side of it is Oldham’s war memorial, Commons, if not better. Rathbone has been described quite a wonderful piece of sculpture and deservedly as an early Margaret Thatcher. It would probably be so, because Oldham lost its sons at the Battle of Loos more accurate to describe Margaret Thatcher as a in 1916. In those terrible times, the young men of a latter-day Eleanor Rathbone. They were very different whole ward could be wiped out by the carnage on the in many ways, although both were products of Somerville Western Front. On the other side of the square is a College, Oxford, and both demonstrated what women magnificent example of 19th-century civic architecture: could achieve in the House of Commons. the town hall, complete with the requisite Doric columns. As has been emphasised, the return of women MPs It also has a blue plaque, which states that Winston has been slow—indeed, for decades glacial—but one Churchill addressed the people of Oldham there on should not lose sight of what the few who were returned his election—his first election—as a Member of in those early years contributed to public life and in a Parliament. It is a prestigious location, and I will now not necessarily congenial institutional setting. This is give the reasons why I think Annie Kenney should be a great opportunity to draw attention to all that they did. commemorated there. Annie listened to Sylvia Pankhurst at a meeting of 5.15 pm the Oldham Clarion in 1905, and immediately struck up a political relationship with Sylvia. There was no Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab): My Lords, I thank doubt at all that Annie was born of very strong stuff the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Bolton, for her indeed. She was certainly a militant suffragette; the very kind remarks about our election contest. When I noble Lord, Lord Lexden, paid tribute to them, while expressed the hope that we would meet in the Chamber disavowing their effectiveness in the long run. She was in due course, I had assumed that it would be at the alongside Sylvia when the first political meeting was other end. Never once, when we met in discussion over disrupted by the suffragettes. Sir Edward Grey was the political position of the nation, did I conceive that one of the speakers, and Winston Churchill another, either she or I would be present in this Chamber. so it was a fairly star cast to upset, but the suffragettes I too want to concentrate my remarks mainly on had no inhibitions about that. As a result, Annie spent one woman. When I first entered the Commons in three days in jail. Subsequent to that, following further 1974, there were three women in the Cabinet: Barbara disruptions carried out by the militants, she suffered Castle, Judith Hart—the Minister for Overseas force-feeding in prison after being arrested and was a Development—and Shirley Williams. Although it might victim of that outrageous cat and mouse Act, whereby be going a little far to say that they were household women were released until they were fit enough to be names, certainly for anyone with the remotest interest returned to prison, where they were treated just as in politics those women made a big impact. Many of cruelly as they had been in the past. my male colleagues rejoice in that but we recognise The militant suffragette campaign was suspended that we have an awfully long way to go to produce in 1914, and of course Annie was a patriot: not for her anything like fairness towards women. Undoubtedly any question of reservation about participating in the the big step forward was having all-women shortlists war. It was the job of men to go to war and it was the in the 1997 election. I have met enough men who have job of women to fill the places that the men had objected to those shortlists; nevertheless, their efficacy vacated and play their full part in sustaining the war is undoubted. If we are to make significant progress effort, which Annie did as ably as she could. At the towards anything like equality of representation of end of the war, Asquith was long gone, and Lloyd the sexes in the House of Commons, other parties also George had been convinced, partly through the militancy have to think along those progressive lines. of the suffragette movement before the war, that the This debate commemorates the achievement of the vote had to be granted to women. So although I vote for women in 1918 and we all salute the contributors accept that of course wartime changed a great deal in to that cause. Some names are very well known. Those British politics, and although I accept that the militant 1833 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1834 aspect of the suffragette movement will always arouse fundraising for charity or some working men’s clubs, some degree of controversy, there is no doubt that it or the appalling sight of scantily dressed women having played its part. By far the most important part was the to publicise a boxing tournament or Formula 1 race, is war effort and the fact that women were able to not acceptable any more. It is heartening that the demonstrate that they were the equal of men in sustaining public are universally clamouring for this change. production at home. But it was inevitably the element It is through education that the esteem and self-esteem of challenge laid down by women—a determination of women must be started. In primary and secondary that they would be satisfied—that helped to convince schools we need to ensure that there is parity of the political establishment of the time, all of whom opportunity for men and women and that stereotypes were male, of course. are challenged. That must continue into apprenticeships, I hope and expect that a statue will be constructed further education and higher education to ensure that over this next year. I hope that Annie Kenney will be we have strong role models. It is a pity that our school recognised for the outstanding Oldhamer, subject and curriculum and GCSE and A-level syllabuses are so woman that she was. Tremendous courage was needed strongly weighted towards men. to sustain these activities over many years, and we I want to talk about two important women, one of should do nothing else but give due praise to the whom has already been mentioned by the noble Lord, women who did so. Lord Norton. However, you do not always have to be famous to make a change to your community and 5.24 pm society. I start with Eleanor Rathbone, the Liverpool Lord Storey (LD): My Lords, I am humbled to take campaigner and independent MP for Combined English part in this important debate on the role of women in Universities. One of her first speeches in this Parliament public life and their increase in representation in was on preventing female genital mutilation. She joined Parliament, both in this Chamber and in the other the British Non-Sectarian Anti-Nazi Council to support place. We have already heard how hard-won the battle human rights and was, as we have heard, outspoken was for all women in the United Kingdom to be on appeasement. She co-founded the Liverpool Women’s allowed to vote and to play their part in electing the Citizen Association to promote women’s involvement Government, and about their selfless struggle to gain in political affairs and was president of the National equality.I wonder how those women would have viewed Union of Societies for Equal Citizenship—the renamed the progress that has been achieved in the past 100 years. National Union of Women’s Suffrage Societies. On the ballot paper, a woman’s vote is still worth In Liverpool, Eleanor Rathbone formed the 1918 Club exactly the same as that of a man, but there is still a for women, reputedly the oldest women’s club still significant underrepresentation, as we have heard, of meeting, which of course celebrates its 100th anniversary women in Parliament. In this Chamber, the percentage this year. Our Lord Speaker has kindly agreed to host of women Members seems to be stuck fairly stubbornly a reception for its members in her honour. It is important at 25%. Although there is a higher percentage of that we remember and celebrate the thousands of women on these Benches than there is on the Benches remarkable women like Eleanor Rathbone. of the other major parties, I do not think that 33% is As I said at the beginning of my remarks, women yet good enough. Of course, as we have heard, in the from all walks of life have brought about change. I other place, only 32% of Members are women. think of my mother. She was German and a refugee If we look at the position of women in the rest of fleeing from the invading Russians. She ended up in our society we see that there is no equality. There are Liverpool, the city that was the most heavily bombed whole swathes of society where women are barely place in the UK outside London. She did not speak a represented. According to Fortune magazine, there is a word of English and was 24 years old. That woman greater chance of being a CEO of a FTSE 100 company managed to survive, to run a business, to bring up a if you are called David or Stephen than if you are a family and to live happily ever after. When my father woman. I guess being called Mike means that I would suggested that my mother might like to return to never have made it big in the world of business. Germany, she said, “No, my home is in Liverpool Perhaps I should have called my daughter David or now”. There are millions of women like that who do Stephen. remarkable things every single day. The representation of women on the boards of We recognise the contribution that women have major companies is pitiful. The Women in Sport survey made. Currently there is an excellent exhibition in found that half of the 68 bodies funded by Sport Portcullis House, a raft of events planned in Parliament England and UK Sport have fewer than 30% of women for this year, and a celebration in the year-long Women as non-executive directors—a percentage that is now a and Power project organised by the National Trust. Of precondition for receiving public funding. The small course we must remember that before 1918 it was not number of women is reflected in the tiny coverage of only women who did not have the vote, it was also women’s sport in our national newspapers, although non-householders. They included men living with their both the BBC and Sky deserve praise for increasing parents, working as servants, serving as soldiers and the coverage of women’s sport. the homeless. Without the women’s suffrage movement Just as 100 years ago the tectonic plates of history I wonder whether universal suffrage would have been were finally shifted by those remarkable campaigning extended to men as well. women, the plates are now shifting again. The row We must all take responsibility for challenging the over the gender pay gap at the BBC is now moving underrepresentation of women wherever we come across into other areas of public life. The denigration of it. We must use the correct term to describe occupations women, whether at a rich men’s dinner cloaked in because language is important. It is not acceptable to 1835 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1836

[LORD STOREY] we should learn from that as a way of doing things talk about “firemen” and so on. I know that some that deliver. We all have something to offer and no one people will say, “What’s in a name?”, but actually it is has a monopoly over all knowledge and virtues. important for us and for our children growing up. I have really enjoyed hearing about the inspirations Parliament should become a beacon of women’s rights that other Members and women have referred to in and opportunities, not just in the Chambers but in the their lives, and I particularly liked the description by number of female officers, staff, researchers and interns my noble friend Lady Morris of her mother and we employ.It is about equal pay and equal opportunities. grandmother. I was fortunate in that both my mother Two weeks ago I met a group of women who are and grandmother ran their own businesses, which was campaigning for more women to be employed in the absolutely unheard of in their generation. Moreover, construction industry. As a result of that meeting I put the Primrose League, which has been mentioned, featured down a Question for Written Answer, and yesterday I large in my family history. But I must say something received a reply from the Minister telling me that positive about how the encouragement and inspiration practical steps are being developed, including the Be to do things in political life came from the male in my Fair framework. As I walked to the Chamber earlier, I life—my father. He died in 2001, aged 96. He had looked at all the scaffolding around Parliament, and I always been very encouraging of women. He had only wondered how many women we employ from the brothers and no sons, just me. He was determined that construction industry on our own building. I would whatever I wanted to do, I should be encouraged in bet that actually there are none, but we could be a that. He encouraged me to take a deep interest in beacon and ensure that women in the construction politics, and he employed women on occasions when industry are employed here in Parliament itself. many others would not have done. He gave them In conclusion, I should say that I was very nervous responsibilities and always regarded them as intellectual about speaking in this debate, but I am glad that I equals. I am very lucky in that, and I thank the male have. Without being patronising, I have been genuinely Members of the House who have taken part in this inspired by Members’ contributions, and I thank them debate because we appreciate that not all men have for that. As I have said, much needs to be done to negative views about the rights and role of women. reach the nirvana talked about by my noble friend Long may we encourage them to play their part in Lady Benjamin, but with women like her and others in bringing forward even more opportunities for women. this Chamber, it will be achieved. This centenary celebration must not only be a time for looking backwards; we must look forwards and 5.33 pm find practical ways of encouraging more women to Baroness Eaton (Con): Although much of the focus serve their communities as local councillors. The lack of this debate is on the representation of women in of parental leave and pension contributions can act as Parliament, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady barriers to standing as a councillor, and in particular Pinnock, that we should reflect on the role of women to taking on the responsibilities of a cabinet member in local politics, both in the suffrage campaign and in and needing to give up full-time employment. The the present day. In this centenary year, it is worth intimidation of people in public life, which affects remembering that local government led the way for both men and women, is also a barrier to standing for women’s rights. Women could vote in local elections public office. nearly 50 years before they won the right to vote in The Committee on Standards in Public Life recently parliamentary elections. They stood for election as published a report on intimidation. It recommended local councillors and Poor Law guardians, and used that the Government should bring forward legislation their positions to fight for better conditions for their abolishing the requirement that those standing to become local communities. The Women’s Local Government local councillors should publish their home addresses Society and the LGA have worked to identify 100 suffrage on ballot papers. This is a recommendation that I pioneers who were active in the campaign for votes would encourage the Government to look at closely, and went on to use the extended rights to citizenship having personally suffered harassment in the past and in a positive way locally.The suffrage pioneer campaign unwelcome intrusions into my family’s lives when I will be launched tomorrow, on 6 February. was the first woman leader of Bradford Metropolitan My home city of Bradford was at the heart of the Council. I know that some men suffer intimidation, women’s suffrage campaign. A rally held in 1908 at but I doubt that male leaders both before and after me Shipley Glen, close to where I live, was attended by in Bradford council were on the receiving end of so crowds of 100,000 people. The noble Baroness, Lady much unwarranted treatment. Pinnock, mentioned Margaret Wintringham in her list As the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, mentioned, the of able women. She was born in Keighley, which is Be a Councillor campaign is a very helpful way of part of Bradford, and she took her seat in 1921. She getting underrepresented groups to engage with and was the third woman, rather than the second, to be enter politics. It has recently formed a network of elected as a Member of Parliament. The noble Baroness, women councillors, which can help and advise those Lady Crawley, told us that Lady Astor was the first who are thinking about standing for election. I encourage female Member of Parliament to take her seat. We all noble Lords to support it. In closing, I ask whether note that she was a Conservative. The second was the Minister could update us on any further plans to Countess Markievicz, who represented Sinn Fein and increase women’s representation nationally and locally never took her seat, while Margaret Wintringham was in political and public office, given the work that both a Liberal. That shows us that the suffragette movement central and local government are doing to invest in the encompassed women of all political persuasions, and Be a Councillor campaign. 1837 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1838

5.40 pm We have tried to do it the nice way. We have tried to make nice. We have listened to our elders who used to Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab): My Lords, I tell us not to rock the boat. I heard it said to me so am so glad that we have this opportunity to celebrate many times. Happily, many of us in this House did not the huge breakthrough that took place in 1918 when listen, but we made a mistake in believing what we women first got the vote. It was a really great leap for were told—that by asking for equal pay, equality, womankind and another victory in the struggle for equal treatment and just laws somehow equality would equality, but it is important to remember that none of automatically follow.Wepackaged our demands according it happened because the powers that be gladly decided to the male template. We adjusted our demands to the to share power. It had to be extracted from them, like male norm. Unfortunately, we followed the stories pulling teeth. Power is never given away readily. It was about the law’s neutrality and blindness to gender and the product of monumental struggle—a visceral, gut- that we get there on merit. We have to ask ourselves: wrenching struggle. who is deciding what is meritorious? Who decides the The demands for suffrage had started long before values that will be attributed to the roles that should 1918. As someone mentioned, they probably started be available to women as well as men? Treating as when Mary Wollstonecraft started arguing about the equal those who are not equal does not create equality. rights of women at the end of the 18th century, but We have to look at the deeper structures of our during the 19th century there was that great struggle society, which I regret to say are still coded male. That by women fighting for property rights. The Married is why we have to change the structural engineering of Women’s Property Act created a seismic shift in the our society if we want real change. It is why it has to status of women, albeit middle-class women. Having go beyond the numbers game that we are talking your own money and your own property is a liberation about today.We have to look at the economic structures for women, as we now know so well and as women that keep women in low-paid jobs and caring jobs, have realised. which are so undervalued and never get the resources they deserve. Women are supposed still to have almost Women did not want to be seen as the property of exclusive responsibility for children or elderly parents their fathers or their husbands. They were demanding and to look after the home. That is still going on all access to education, the universities, medical schools too often. and the legal profession, just like their brothers. They brought cases to court—I say this as a lawyer, because I have played my part. I have been an activist in the it is a piece of history that really is shocking. The law. I have written on the law’s failings for more than women argued that the law was neutral. It said that 40 years. In fact, I have devised many of the reforms “any person” suitably qualified could enter university, that have been introduced by women parliamentarians become a city councillor, study to be a doctor or enter into the legal sphere. Women in Parliament have the Inns of Court, so why not them, if they were collaborated with women practitioners such as me. We suitably qualified? But the judges, intellectually honest have tweaked and amended the law, and passed new to a man, said that the word “person” did not apply to Acts of Parliament. But I ask noble Lords these women. Male exclusivity won the day. It was only by questions: have the changes delivered justice in rape persistent pursuit of cases through the courts and cases? Are we seeing domestic violence ending? Did challenges to the ruling bodies and institutions that our changes to the law stop Jimmy Savile or any of the rules were eventually changed. those others? Did it prevent the church scandals, the Rotherham scandal or scandals in any other cities, or The rights to higher education, to enter the professions have we continued to see the normalisation of violence and to vote were achieved only after a traumatic and towards women? Do women get equal pay? We have painful set of battles in which women were vilified, just had the BBC matter, but we know, when we look humiliated, battered, beaten, imprisoned and force-fed, right down the line to the low-paid jobs, the ordinary and in which they lost their lives. So when women factory jobs, the secretarial jobs and the jobs inside today are trolled, abused online, stalked and humiliated, our companies, that there is not equal pay. Have we or sexually violated and hurt, it is not new and we are removed sexual harassment from the workplace? right to ask: have we come far enough? It is shameful What does #MeToo tell us? How can it be that prominent that after 100 years we have not yet achieved real businessmen still feel able to hold men-only sleazy equality. events? The whole issue is about the position of women. So why do women suffer so much misogyny on the Many wonderful women—we have heard tributes paid internet and social media—trolling, stalking and revenge to so many remarkable women—took part in struggles. porn? I am afraid it means we have to look at the It should be a source of pride to us that we have had so attitudes that underpin the way our society works. many wonderful women in Parliament. Some noble Women who have succeeded have often had to play the Baronesses here now were women in the Commons. game by male rules. That method has delivered for They have held high office. We have had wonderful some with great success, but not for most. Sometimes women in the senior judiciary and in all our institutions. those confident older women who have enjoyed success Although we have had all those good women who are very hard on women coming up behind them. It have enriched our society, improved it, brought their takes a lot of courage for young women who are being gifts into the public arena and defied scorn to fight for exploited, harassed or abused at work to speak out equality and a better society, there is still a huge about what is taking place. Older women should be “BUT”, which has to be written in capital letters and supporting younger women, not disparaging them, spoken very loudly: we still have a long journey ahead. when they take their confidence into their hands. 1839 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1840

[BARONESS KENNEDY OF THE SHAWS] Is it the issue of work/life balance? Is it the awful abuse We do not have equality. Young women are saying, we see meted out? Is it parity of pay stopping women “Enough: everyday sexism has to stop”. They want achieving these aims? Is it lack of interest? Is it all of equality and I am on their side, as I know most people these things and more? Do we know the answer to in this House are. I want quotas and all-women shortlists these questions? It is only by knowing what is stopping because I have lost patience. I thought that the world women getting into politics that we can seek to address would have changed by the time I got to the great age the problem. that I now am. It has been too long a-coming. I say to Just as the UN has the HeForShe campaign, we too you all: we tried doing it the nice way and now we are can encourage more men to get on board with the going to have to kick down the barn doors. idea, so that it is not a fight for gender equality but a Yes, let us celebrate the wondrous women who went collaboration, a working together so that we can achieve before. We do walk in their shoes. Let us chalk up it. We heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that every gain, victory and position that is taken. But now there are only 10 men participating in today’s debate I say to you men: you have to make this your business and three times more noble Baronesses. It should not too. be like that; we should be at least equal. The UN has also asked everyone to “step it up” with its “Planet 5.48 pm 50-50 by 2030: Step It Up for Gender Equality”campaign. Lord Loomba (CB): My Lords,women’sempowerment But how can we possibly help women to achieve in and gender equality are all at the heart of my work other walks of life if we do not have enough women in and what I strive to achieve as an advocate for women Parliament too? We should be stepping it up, but and girls’ rights across the globe. These rights that we ahead of 2030, and making it a challenge for the next are celebrating today have been hard won and are still general election. being hard won the world over as progress continues to move at a snail’s pace. Indeed, Mary Wollstonecraft wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Woman in 1792 5.54 pm and is acknowledged as the leader in the battle for Baroness Seccombe (Con): My Lords, I have found votes. Here in this House, female participation, through it very interesting to hear how families have been life Peerages, took a further 40 years after the 1918 Act behind many of us here today. I pay tribute to my to achieve. mother, who was behind me every step. She loved Globally, the latest figures from the UN show that elections and came canvassing with me even when she only 11 women are serving as head of state and 12 as was 92, in the year she died. I also pay tribute to the head of government. The figures also show that, globally, manyhusbands,because I feel that for a certain generation, there are 38 states in which women account for less one had to have your husband behind you and they than 10% of parliamentarians in single or lower Houses, did wonderful work in supporting us. including four Chambers with no women at all. One Today I feel like a parent in 1918 reading her son’s country that particularly stands out is Rwanda, where school report: “A little progress, but could do so much women have won 63.8% of seats in the lower House, better”. 1918 was indeed a milestone, when all men thehighestnumberof womenparliamentariansworldwide. over 21 and some women were enfranchised. These Figures from the IPU show that globally the UK is were privileged women who owned property: had I ranked 39th for female participation in Parliament. been about at that time, I should have been livid if I While we are not that far in front of Afghanistan, in had not qualified. This was at a time when women had 55th place, we are faring much better than the USA, in been not only keeping the home fires burning but 99th place; but our closer neighbour, Germany, is in a keeping the country going—running businesses and similar position, in 45th place. France has bucked the farms, nursing sick and broken men returning from trend and recently achieved over 40% of female Members the front, as well as upholding their family responsibilities in its last elections. and keeping life on as even a keel as possible. What can be seen from all these statistics is that the I understand from the House of Lords Library that mainly slow, grinding process of increasing women’s the number of men who qualified at that time was participation in political life is not achieving a lot; as 12,913,000, while 8,417,000 women became eligible to Helen Lewis said in a recent article: vote. As the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, said, “It is embarrassing that it took 98 years”, the age qualification for women was to ensure that until 2016, for the total number of women ever elected they did not form the majority of the electorate. How to our Parliament—to date, 455—to reach the same disgraceful. I must not be curmudgeonly and grumpy, number as male MPs sitting at present. It is something but I feel for those women who did not qualify. They that we, as a developed nation, should be leading the had been struggling for four long years and were way on. We should be setting an example on the world rejected in this savage way. stage that we truly believe in equality in political life. I find it strange that in 1918, although women were Women make up nearly half of the world’spopulation, not allowed to vote, they were allowed to stand as yet very few are actively involved in the decisions that candidates. Dame Christabel Pankhurst, as she became, affect their lives. Each country is different, with different the daughter of Emmeline Pankhurst, stood in the needs and different priorities, but what is not so different rough, tough area of Smethwick in the West Midlands. is the lack of women in political life. If Rwanda can Elections were fought in large gatherings in those increase women’s participation, so can we. We must days, and she was subjected to oranges laced with seriously look at what it is that prevents women partaking razor blades being thrown at her. You had to be brave in politics in this country and do something about it. and courageous to be a candidate then. 1841 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1842

Throughout my life, I have always felt that we It is difficult, if not impossible, to make any direct needed more women in every sphere of public life, not links between enfranchisement and prosperity or equality. only to balance the numbers or for equality reasons That is not to diminish the importance of the vote. In but because I feel that the country is missing out on so my trade union days, I visited Pinochet’s Chile, the much talent. My role as a vice-chairman of the former South West Africa—now Namibia—and apartheid Conservative Party was to find women and encourage South Africa to support trade unions and visit political them to take the plunge, to promote them whenever prisoners. People died for democracy in those countries, and wherever I could. I think we can say that we made just as they did here. I know how important it is to be modest gains, but I congratulate my noble friend Lady able peacefully to vote a Government out of office. Jenkin and other colleagues who, with the wholehearted When I first joined the campaign trail for equal rights support of the Prime Minister, are succeeding in so for women in the 1960s we had the Ford women many ways. Women bring a different perspective to workers as our inspiration. I thought we would have issues, and now many who were given the chance are made more progress, as the noble Baroness, Lady thriving. Today it is much more normal for the best Kennedy, said, in achieving equal pay and pension applicant to be appointed, male or female, and long rights, better representation for women, and protection may it be so. However, we must not forget that there is against sexual harassment and domestic violence. Of always more to do. course I was idealistic. In some areas the absence of I pay tribute to those courageous women who, real progress is appalling: an estimated 54,000 maternity at huge cost to themselves, blazed the trail. Therefore, sackings; two women killed every week in domestic there is every reason to celebrate the enormous violence incidents; and women still dependent on men, change that has taken place and I do so enthusiastically, in England at least, for the payment of their benefits. but I hope that in 2028, in 10 years’ time, there will We had a debate quite recently, as has already been be a remarkable celebration for the day that all mentioned, about the WASPI women: women who women became entitled to vote. I will not be here, but I lost out on their expectations of a state pension because hope that those who will be will have a very good they were too young for one system and too old for the party. new one, after also being discriminated against in occupational pensions all their working lives. They 5.59 pm call themselves Women Against State Pension Inequality. Now we learn that thousands of military spouses are Baroness Donaghy (Lab): My Lords, what a great also losing out on their state pension if they reached pleasure it is to follow the noble Baroness, Lady pension age before 6 April 2016, whereas those reaching Seccombe. In her quiet and undemonstrative way— retirement age after that date will be able to claim although she was not all that quiet just then—she is a credits equivalent to a year’s national insurance for real champion for the role of women in society and I any year they were abroad since 1975. Those who pay public tribute to her. It is right that we pay tribute reached pension age before 6 April 2016 will be entitled to the women—and men—who campaigned for votes to only 60% of their husband’s pension. As one military which we too often take for granted. wife has said, it was frowned on for wives to work: When you look at the serried ranks of the establishment at the time, those campaigners faced formidable “Even throughout the 1980s, women had to live on the base. I barriers. No one has mentioned Lord Curzon yet—the had to look after the 100 or so families on the base”. noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, is nodding. He She was expected to be hostess and welfare adviser, all was co-president of the National League for Opposing unpaid. She cannot claim credit for her six years Woman Suffrage immediately before the Act. In 1914 abroad serving her country in an unpaid capacity and he warned this House that suffrage would, she will now receive a reduced state pension. I believe “unquestionably weaken our prestige and influence throughout this is a betrayal of some of the military wives in the the world”, same way as WASPI women were betrayed. and that women lacked the “balance of mind” to use Anniversaries such as this give us the opportunity the vote. Even a social reformer such as Octavia Hill, to reflect on whether we have made a contribution to who helped establish social housing in Britain and was society—what inspired us about the suffrage movement— one of the founders of the National Trust, believing in but also how far we still have to go. I was the seventh the right to clean air and open spaces, was anti-suffrage. woman president of the TUC in the 132 years of its She thought that there would be, history. My noble friend Lady Prosser was the sixth. “a serious loss to our country … if women entered … political She was a role model for many of us. Margaret Bondfield, life”. who has already been mentioned, would have been the Those who campaigned against such odds are a role first president of the TUC in 1923 but she left to take a model and an inspiration. post in government. It was left for Anne Loughlin of I suspect that I would have had to wait a further the Tailors and Garment Workers’ Union to become decade before being enfranchised, as the noble Baroness, the first woman TUC president in 1943—75 years Lady Seccombe, said, because only those with property after its founding. However, since 2000 there have qualifications benefited in 1918. The majority of the been eight women TUC presidents, including my noble working classes were excluded. It may sound cynical, friend Lady Drake—three in the past three years—and but I suspect the vote was granted to women only a woman general secretary, Frances O’Grady, for the because ex-servicemen over 19 and other men over first time. We made a slow start but we are now 21 were given it, and leaving women out would have catching up. I represented low-paid workers, mainly been seen as unnecessarily provocative. women, in my trade union and was extremely proud to 1843 Role of Women in Public Life [LORDS] Immigration White Paper 1844

[BARONESS DONAGHY] As to the longer term, as the House will know, the be appointed to the first Low Pay Commission in Government have commissioned the independent 1997. So far I am the only woman to have been chair Migration Advisory Committee to advise on the economic of ACAS. aspects of the UK’s exit. The MAC has been asked to I learned from the women campaigners before me report by September 2018, although it has been invited that you need determination, patience, a great deal of to consider whether it could also produce interim gritting of teeth and an understanding that there are reports. Let me be clear: given that we expect to have different ways of working. My noble friend Lady an implementation period of around two years after Prosser put part-time workers centre-stage in the trade we leave, there will be plenty of time to take account of union movement and I was privileged to move acceptance the MAC’srecommendations in designing the longer-term of the part-time workers directive in the European immigration system for the UK. TUC, which at the time quietly believed that only We are clear that the Government will make a full-time work was respectable. As an aside, a Canadian- success of Brexit. We will end free movement and style deal with the EU after Brexit will end up with build an immigration system that works in the national ILO minimum standards and the current protections interest and we will, as we have done thus far, ensure for part-time workers, paid annual holidays, parental that Parliament is kept informed and up to date”. leave, and the protection of working conditions if your company is taken over by another will not be 6.11 pm there. I promise that anyone who tries to remove those Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op): My Lords, protections will have quite a job on their hands. I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the In conclusion, the campaigns are still needed, whether Question given in the other place by the Immigration it is on the gender pay gap or protecting workers’ Minister. Her problem is the Government’s lack of rights—people’s rights—after exiting the EU. There is any credibility on this. We have Boris Johnson and still much to do. Michael Gove charging round seeking to undermine the Prime Minister, and they were recently joined by Immigration White Paper Jacob Rees-Mogg. The Government’saction, particularly Statement on immigration, is making us an international laughing stock. Will the Minister explain to the House why 6.08 pm publication has again been postponed? Is there anything Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con): My Lords, with in the department, even in draft, or are there just the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form sheets of blank white paper sitting in the Home Office? of a Statement the Answer given by my right honourable What assurance can she give the House that we will friend the Immigration Minister to an Urgent Question not be sitting here again in a few months’ time with in the other place. The Statement is as follows: another postponement? The Minister was not specific on when she will come back to us. We would like to “Mr Speaker, it is a great pleasure to come to the know that we will not be here again in a few months House today to answer the Question from the right with another postponement. honourable Member for Pontefract and Castleford. In doing so, I should point out that Ministers have made Baroness Vere of Norbiton: I thank the noble Lord great efforts to keep the House informed of the state for his question. On the timing, it is clear that we are of play relating to the UK’s exit from the European considering a range of options for the future immigration Union, bearing in mind that we are in an ongoing system. This is incredibly important. We will set out negotiation and we cannot give a running commentary. initial plans in the coming months. We have to make Since June 2016, there have been numerous ministerial sure that all decisions we make for the future immigration Statements. system are based on evidence and engagement. I encourage This Question, however, relates specifically to all noble Lords and those they talk to to consult the immigration so let me remind the House where we Government about what they would like a future have got to. Our first priority in negotiations was to system to look like. We are already in consultation reach a deal on citizens’ rights—the position of the with a wide range of representatives from business, 3 million EU citizens currently in the UK and, just as universities and various countries and when we are importantly, the 1 million UK citizens who reside in satisfied that we have the evidence and have completed other EU member states. An agreement was successfully the consultation, we will make our decision. concluded on that last December, meaning that all those people were guaranteed continuing rights to live Lord Paddick (LD): My Lords, presumably the and work as they do now. Of course, we updated Minister will have seen the political coverage over the Parliament fully at the time. weekend about the damage caused by the uncertainty Our next priority is to agree the arrangements over Brexit, not least to the National Health Service, during the implementation period—the period which EU nationals are leaving because of the uncertainty. immediately following the UK’s exit next March. From a situation where they felt they had some certainty, Negotiations are shortly to begin with the EU. My we now learn that there is no certainty during or after right honourable friend the Prime Minister set out the the implementation period. The Minister talks about UK’s broad objectives in the speech she gave in Florence there being plenty of time, but the longer the delay, the last year. We will publish a White Paper in the coming more people will leave. What further damage does the months, when the time is right, and of course we will Minister believe this delay and the publication of this consider how we can update the House as negotiations White Paper will cause to an already understaffed and progress. underresourced National Health Service? 1845 Immigration White Paper [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Immigration White Paper 1846

Baroness Vere of Norbiton: I thank the noble Lord policy being evidence-based. Is it not absolutely clear for his observations, but I do not feel he is quite that at the moment, as the NHS scours the rest of the correct. Let us be clear: we have already reached a very EU for doctors and nurses to keep our health service important milestone. We have reached an agreement—a going, any restrictions on free movement in that citizens’ rights deal—with the EU. That covers EU implementation and transition period would have a citizens who already live in the UK, so if you are a devastating effect? The Government should make clear nurse from the EU living in the UK, you are covered. that they will not impose conditions on their rights of You need to register with the Home Office. You will residence in the United Kingdom. then be able to obtain settled status and can remain in the United Kingdom and have the same rights as you Baroness Vere of Norbiton: The noble Lord will would have had prior to our leaving the EU. What will know, as I am sure many noble Lords know, that happen during the post-exit implementation period is immigration numbers have already started to fall. It is subject to negotiation, and it would be foolish for us to our ambition to achieve a sustainable level of immigration reveal exactly what we want because the quickest way after we exit the European Union and after the post-exit not to get what you want is to reveal it. implementation period has completed. The noble Lord asked what our objectives are for the post-exit Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB): Would the Minister implementation period. It is instructive to look forward notice, or agree, that the timing for the White Paper to the period beyond implementation because that is that she has given is about as vague as anything I have the period for which we have to establish a stable and heard, and I have heard plenty of vague promises from robust immigration system that works for every region government about the timing of White Papers? Can and every sector of our economy. So in terms of where she say that the White Paper—when it comes, if it we are now and where we will be in, say, 2021, the comes, whenever it comes—will cover the aberrant objective for the implementation period and the practice of treating international students as economic immigration system for that period is a smooth transition. migrants and will finally address that issue in terms It is to ensure that there is no cliff edge and that we are that stop that practice? able to have the people and skills we need in our country. Baroness Vere of Norbiton: I think I can assure the noble Lord that it will come, so “if” is not required in Lord Hylton (CB): My Lords, it has been well his question. I think I have been very clear that it will known for a long time that there have been acute be with us in the coming months as the situation shortages of high-skilled and low-skilled workers. The progresses. The noble Lord raises including students Answer makes no reference to them. What are the in the net migration figure, and I am well aware that it Government thinking and what will they do? is an issue about which he feels very strongly, but we are no different from Australia, Canada, New Zealand Baroness Vere of Norbiton: My Lords, we are well and the US in including international students in our aware that there are shortages in certain areas and net migration calculations. I am afraid I cannot make there may be overstaffing in other areas. As for what any promises to him about what will be in the White the Government are doing, they are listening. The Paper. most important thing that we can do at the moment is to listen to businesses, to universities and to our colleagues Baroness Redfern (Con): I thank the Minister for across the European Union. The Government have a repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question. Will number of user groups, which have been set up with there be a regional dimension to our future immigration representatives from all sorts of different organisations. policy? The most important thing we can do is listen, and if we feel that there will be shortages in certain areas— Baroness Vere of Norbiton: I thank my noble friend whether regions or sectors—that is what our future for her question. We have to take into account the immigration policy must address. labour requirements in regions and in different sectors of our economy. This is why we have commissioned the independent Migration Advisory Committee to Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con): My Lords— advise on the economic and social impact of the UK’s exit from the EU and on how the UK’s immigration Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab): My Lords— system should be aligned with the Government’s modern industrial strategy, which was published recently. The Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen (Con): My Lords, Migration Advisory Committee will report in September order. This side. 2018, so there is sufficient time to do the work that needs to be done. We are considering a range of Baroness Neville-Rolfe: I believe the Government options for a future immigration system, and I am have made a mistake in recent years in understating sure we are not ruling anything out at this stage. the scale of immigration and forecast immigration in their planning for health, housing, schools and Lord Liddle (Lab): Will the Minister please be a infrastructure. What annual estimates of immigration little more open with the House about the Government’s are the Government making for the next three to five objectives for their immigration policy in the transition years—ranges if need be—beyond the implementation period, or the implementation period, as the Government period, and how are they planning for the consequences call it? Is the objective to reduce numbers coming to for public services and infrastructure? Will this feature this country or is it not? The Minister talked about in the White Paper? 1847 Immigration White Paper [LORDS] NHS Winter Crisis 1848

Baroness Vere of Norbiton: I thank my noble friend Over 95% of hospital beds were full last week, for her question. I am afraid I am not able to answer leaving just one bed in 20 available. We saw the highest the questions that she has raised about the numbers number of accident and emergency diverts for any we are looking at and the forecast for our public week this winter, with 43 incidents across England. I services. I can say, however, that we are working very pay tribute to our NHS staff, who have gone the extra hard to improve the quality of the data we use for mile in very challenging circumstances. We know that immigration forecasting. We are working very closely 50,000 elective operations were planned to be cancelled, with the ONS and other parts of government to but it would seem that some urgent operations have improve the quality and use of administrative data. been cancelled, too. Will the Minister explain to the We need a better understanding of how many migrants House why those operations have been cancelled, despite are in the UK, how long they stay for and what they NHS England’s advice to the contrary? are currently doing. The ONS will be reporting back It would also now seem that the accident and within a year, and we look forward to its report. emergency targets that are enshrined in legislation and the constitution have been abandoned until March—that Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords— is, March 2019. Will the Government bring forward Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: My Lords, we have legislation to amend the constitution? Finally, will the had 10 minutes. We are now moving on to the next Minister accept that the winter plans that have been Question. outlined are now being compromised in the light of the fact that at least 23 trusts are now on black alert, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords— which means that they are under severe pressure? Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen: Order. Lord O’Shaughnessy. Lord O’Shaughnessy: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her questions. I agree with her that we are all proud of our NHS, on all sides of this House, and I NHS Winter Crisis am sure that we all have great pleasure in stating that Statement through whatever means we are required to. I also join 6.23 pm with her in paying tribute to the staff, who do such a fantastic job, often in challenging circumstances. TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department She asked first about urgent operations. It is clear of Health and Social Care (Lord O’Shaughnessy) (Con): in the guidance that they should not be cancelled when My Lords, with the leave of the House I will repeat as a it would negatively affect patients’ outcomes. If that Statement the response to an Urgent Question given has happened, NHS England is investigating and by my honourable friend the Minister of State for reinstating those operations. The guidance is quite Health in the other place. The Statement is as follows: clear and NHS England has followed that up. “Winter is challenging for health services worldwide. With a high number of flu cases this year, we have seen As for A&E targets, we know that they have not an increase of around 35% in A&E attendances from been achieved recently. It is important and instructive flu—triple what it was last year—with around to look at the extraordinary increase, not just in winter 3,000 hospital beds occupied as a result of flu, and a but overall, in the number of episodes that are happening. further 700 because of norovirus. The NHS saw They really are increasing at a very high rate. Demand 1,200 more patients a day in A&E compared to this is very high—higher than I think could have been time last year. The guidance issued by the national anticipated—and it is a credit to the NHS that it has emergency preparedness panel sought to free up capacity produced the performance that it has. The aim now, for emergencies given the high number of flu cases, with funding given at the Budget, is to get us back to including two dominant strains of flu co-circulating the four-hour target that we all agree ought to happen. this year. That is what will be happening over the coming year. It is important to remind the House that the deferment of operations referred to in that guidance applied to Baroness Jolly (LD): My Lords, this morning I around 13% of hospital beds dealing with elective visited a suburban hospital in London, with an almost patients, of which around half were protected within brand new A&E unit and a well-managed winter the guidance in respect of cancer and other urgent crisis. But despite all that, it has still had to face a bed elective treatments. That guidance was updated on occupancy rate of 97% on several days, which is 26 January to confirm that further deferment of hospital stretching its ability to make this work. Money was operations was no longer needed. In terms of the clearly an issue—the hospital was quite anxious about impact that the guidance has had on operations, we what its end of year accounts might look like. Today, will not know this until mid-March, when that data the Liberal Democrats launched a report looking again will be published and placed in the Library for the at a different way of funding the NHS through the benefit of both sides of the House”. creation of an office of budget responsibility for health and care, long-term health and care funding, and a 6.24 pm ring-fenced tax to replace national insurance. Also, Baroness Thornton (Lab): My Lords, I thank the there is a clear need for some sort of short-term fix, Minister for that Statement. Before I ask my questions, and we have suggested that £2 billion should be raised I also thank the Secretary of State and the Prime by adding a penny to our income tax. Has the Minister Minister for their responses to the United States President’s looked at this report and will he agree to meet with me bizarre attack on our NHS. to discuss it? 1849 NHS Winter Crisis[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials 1850

Lord O’Shaughnessy: I thank the noble Baroness Lord O’Shaughnessy: This is a really important for her questions. I am glad she had a positive experience point about nursing numbers. I think the particular this morning at the hospital she mentioned. She is accusation was about the Francis report and the follow-up quite right that bed occupancy is very high at the to it. Of course, a lot of that was about nurses in NHS moment. A good job was done in getting it down hospitals and indeed on wards. The latest figures from below 85% across the system in the run-up to Christmas, October 2017 show that, when compared to May 2010, but of course it has filled up subsequently.An important there has been an increase of more than 14,000 in part of dealing with this is the social care side, as we acute, general and elderly. At the same time, that has know, and the extra funding that has gone in is having meant that some other areas of nursing have been some impact on these so-called DToCs—delayed transfers impacted; we have talked about mental health before of care—and freeing up a number of beds. as well as district nursing. I say to the noble Baroness The noble Baroness is right of course that money is that the big increases in nurse training places ought to important, particularly as we have the demands of a mean that there are more nurses going through not growing and ageing population. More money was of just into acute, general and elderly but into mental course announced in the November Budget for the health and community nursing as well. short term. As for the long term, there is obviously a very informed and lively discussion going on not just Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab): My Lords, despite among the Liberal Democrats but across the system the increase in population over the last 30 years, the and across politics about what is the right long-term number of beds in the National Health Service is half solution. Obviously, as I have said before, issues of what it was 30 years ago. Germany has eight health taxation are for the Chancellor and not for me, but I service beds per 1,000 and in France the figure is six, would be delighted to meet her to discuss those plans. but in the UK it is two and a half. Is it not about time What I can say, on behalf of the Secretary of State, is that we revisited the whole question of the number of that we understand that there needs to be sustainable, beds available in our National Health Service? long-term increases in NHS funding. We have to find Lord O’Shaughnessy: The noble Lord raises a very the right way to do that. interesting issue. As he rightly points out, that number has been dropping over a long time. It has plateaued in Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB): Do the Government recent years, but it has been falling. This is a difficult recognise the concern of the Royal College of Emergency situation. Weall agree that more care should be delivered Medicine that the revised way of collecting data by in the community, but we also understand that at NHS England does not allow meaningful comparisons certain times of year you do need beds in hospitals. I because it includes walk-in and minor injury units, will point to two things: first, making sure that bed some of which are off site from the level 1 major capacity is more efficient so that people can stay safely emergency departments? Its concern is that this may for less time and can spend more time being treated in be giving an overoptimistic impression of throughput their homes—which often is where they want to be, and and does not reflect the huge pressures on level 1 units. that is why the extra funding for social care is important; Will the Minister undertake to meet the president of and, secondly, the reconfiguration test that has been the Royal College of Emergency Medicine with me to introduced by NHS England, which is about stopping discuss some of its concerns? reductions in bed numbers—which, as the noble Lord said, has happened under successive Governments—where Lord O’Shaughnessy: This is an afternoon of agreeing it cannot be proven that any reduction is for the to meetings—but, yes, I would be delighted to do so. I benefit of patients in terms of their overall care. am not knowledgeable enough about the issue that the Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB): My Lords, I declare noble Baroness mentioned but, while of course there an interest as president of the Spinal Injuries Association. is a huge difference in the kinds of workloads of those Is the Minister aware that at Stoke Mandeville’s national different types of A&E, the target incorporates all of spinal centre, a ward that is absolutely necessary has them. They all have the obligation to reach the four-hour been taken away from the spinal unit and used for waiting time standard and we want to make sure that, general patients? There are waiting lists in the seven whatever the situation and whatever the venue, we can spinal units all over the country, affecting seriously ill do that. patients who need specialised treatment. Will the Minister look into the situation? Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB): My Lords, will the Minister explain how, five years after the Lord O’Shaughnessy: I was not aware of that but I Francis inquiry, there is a lack of investment in the shall certainly investigate and write to the noble Baroness. health and care nursing workforce in England, as outlined in the RCN report published today? That Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials report, Left to Chance, shows that even if we had more Statement beds we would not be able to staff them. In comparison, Wales has invested heavily in new nurses and continued 6.34 pm professional development, and is doubling the number The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of district nurses that it intends to train this year. In of Housing, Communities and Local Government and England we currently have 4,400 qualified district Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con): My nurses, but in 2010 we had 7,500. How can we resolve Lords, with the leave of the House I will repeat a this quickly and ensure that we have more district Statement made by the Housing Minister in the other nurses in training by this September? place earlier today: 1851 Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials[LORDS] Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials 1852

[LORD BOURNE OF ABERYSTWYTH] itself. Meanwhile, officials are working with the “Mr Speaker, I wish to comment on the decision by manufacturer on what has happened, and we will look the Building Research Establishment to withdraw a to learn lessons from this. I will write to noble Lords building cladding safety test from its website. BRE to give more details of that as they become apparent, was contacted by Celotex after it identified anomalies but I want to underline that this is no reflection at all between the specification for a cladding system that it on the testing system, or on what has happened in had submitted for testing and the actual system tested. relation to Grenfell. It was alerted to this issue last week. As a result, BRE has withdrawn the classification report relating to that Lord Shipley (LD): My Lords, like the noble Lord, test, which was carried out in 2014. That is the right Lord Kennedy, I remind the House that I am a vice- thing to do. president of the Local Government Association. The cladding system in question included a fibre There are 10 points in the Government’s response. cement board rainscreen and Celotex RS5000 insulation. Paragraph 2 says that the Building Research Establishment It is important to underline that this was not a test of was contacted by Celotex last week. However, the the aluminium composite material cladding system reply does not say why this problem occurred in the understood to have been present at Grenfell Tower. first place. Why was the testing inadequate? We understand that Celotex is contacting customers With regard to paragraph 5, the Minister has made who have used this material. We have published a clear that this was not a test of the aluminium composite range of advice for building owners on the fire safety material cladding system that was understood to have of cladding and insulation materials, including this been present at Grenfell Tower. However, weekend type of insulation. media reports said that Celotex RS5000 insulation That advice still stands. As it makes clear, building was on Grenfell Tower. Was that the case? owners should take their own professional advice on Thirdly, on paragraph 8, the Minister says that the any further action, reflecting their building’s particular advice currently given to owners of high-rise blocks circumstances. We continue to expect building owners and public buildings still stands, but I suggest to him to progress necessary remediation work and, where that it is not enough. As of 10 January 2018, there are necessary, to implement the interim fire safety measures 312 residential buildings over 18 metres high in England, to ensure that residents and their buildings are safe”. and public buildings are part of that total. All those 6.36 pm have aluminium composite material cladding but, of the 312, 299 have aluminium composite material cladding Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op): My Lords, that the MHCLG’s expert panel advises is unlikely to I thank the Minister for repeating the answer to the meet current building regulations guidance, and therefore Urgent Question given in another place. I remind the presents fire hazards on buildings higher than 18 metres. House of my declarations of interest as a councillor in Does the Minister feel that that situation is acceptable, the London Borough of Lewisham and a vice-president and does he understand the frustration of building of the Local Government Association. owners that the Government are not being sufficiently The answer is disappointing and highlights for me clear on fire safety measures that are essential, nor on that the testing system is in chaos.More than seven months exactly where the finance for essential works will come on from the disaster at Grenfell Tower, only three of from? the 300 tower blocks have had their unsafe cladding replaced, leaving thousands of people living in homes that are not safe. How many residents are living in Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth: My Lords, the noble tower blocks with insulation that now has invalid Lord raises various material points which I shall try to approval? What action are the Government taking to deal with. First, I restate that nothing in the system of ensure that any other similar tests are also not flawed? testing done in relation to Grenfell is faulty. The Grenfell testing is not in question from the Celotex Some in the industry now suggest that the test. government-commissioned cladding tests used different standards from those in official guidance, with cavity The noble Lord raises an issue about the 299 tests barriers three times as fire resistant. Can the Minister that failed. He is absolutely right about that figure; it is confirm today that that is the case? What does he say the ministry figure. These are failed tests following the to insurers or landlords who say that the Government’s Grenfell fire in June last year, and we are in the process tests are not sufficient to show that they breach building of ensuring that all are remedied. Some are on local regulations so they will pay no removal and replacement authority buildings, some are public buildings, some costs for leaseholders, leaving them liable to foot the are student residences, some of them are in private bill? hands, but on all of them either interim measures have been taken or the process has been completed. That Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth: My Lords, the test process was put in place post Grenfell and, as I said, system is not in chaos. I made it quite clear that the there is no question but that appropriate action is now Celotex issue does not have a bearing on the advice being taken in relation to those 299 failures of the that we have given in relation to the Grenfell testing. 312 tests undertaken. The system tests were designed in line with the British Standard and were scrutinised and witnessed by Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab): My Lords, is not the independent observers. This is a discrepancy between simple truth that there are many tenants in private, what Celotex thought it had submitted and what was publicly owned and social-housing blocks of flats actually tested; it was not a reflection on the testing nationally who are completely unaware whether their 1853 Grenfell Tower: Insulation Materials [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Rail Update 1854 flats or the blocks that they live in are a fire risk? With material point; I apologise for not seeing it earlier. I that in mind, would it not be wise to introduce a will make sure that that is put in front and drawn to simple and cheap initiative? That would be for all the attention of the Hackitt review. freehold landlords of all blocks in the United Kingdom, whether they be social landlord, private or whatever, to place in a public place in the entrance to those Rail Update blocks a sign on the wall which specified the cladding Statement of that particular block. That information in the hands of tenants would be a powerful weapon for them to 6.46 pm use when they sought improvements to the standards TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department of insulation of their block. for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con): My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall repeat a Statement made Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth: The noble Lord is by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State right that many different blocks have been tested and for Transport in the other place. The statement is as found wanting in this process. I just referred to the follows: 299 that have failed and I have the breakdown here: “On 10 January, I informed the House that my 45 in local authority hands, 115 housing association, department was preparing contingency plans for running 13 public buildings, 95 private residential and 31 student train services on the east coast main line in the event of residences. They are going through the process of the existing franchise failing. Despite delivering significant ensuring that appropriate measures are put in place. returns to the taxpayer and having some of the highest Meanwhile, the Hackitt review is looking at the passenger satisfaction scores in the country, the lead area much more widely. In response to the disaster operator of the franchise, Stagecoach, has been incurring that we had at Grenfell, it was felt appropriate to have significant losses. In that debate, I promised to return a thoroughgoing review of fire safety measures; I to the House to provide an update Statement on the agree. We are already acting on the interim report. We situation, and I am doing so today. are now awaiting the final report, which will come up Since 2015 the franchise has met all its financial with recommendations which we will pursue once they commitments to the taxpayer,returning nearly £1 billion are made. That is expected in the late spring. There is to the public purse, but this has come at a substantial also a public inquiry. cost of nearly £200 million to Stagecoach. I already There are many aspects to this, but in relation informed the House that the franchise will in due specifically to the Grenfell-type of cladding, we put in course run out of money and will not last until 2020. process a system of testing that goes across all sectors, It has now been confirmed the situation is much more public and private, and I do not think we could really urgent. It is now clear that this franchise will be able to be expected to do more. continue in its current form for only a matter of months, and no more. Last week, following detailed Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB): My Lords, can analysis, my department issued the franchisee with the Minister inform us whether the documentation of notification that the franchise had breached a key the type of cladding includes the way it is attached to financial covenant. the building? If it is adherent to the surface, there will It is important to be clear with the House—and, not be an updraught on both sides of it. The problem, indeed, the public—that this will not impact on the as soon as anything starts to burn, is updraught, railway’sday-to-day operations.The business will continue which brings more air and oxygen in and fuels the to operate as usual with no impact on services or staff inflammability of whatever material is there. on the east coast. But it does mean that I will need to put in place in the very near future a successor Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth: My Lords, the noble arrangement to operate this railway and to end the Baroness has a degree of expertise which I do not current contract. Given the imminent financial pressure profess. If I may, I will pick up her specific question, that the existing franchise is under, I am taking action but I think it is appropriate to say that it was the now to protect passengers who depend on these train system that was tested, not just the cladding. I will services and ensure continued value for money for write more fully to her and ensure that my letter is taxpayers. Given the urgency of the situation, I would copied to other noble Lords who have participated. like to take this opportunity to update the House on my plans. Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, the noble Lord It is worth remembering that our franchising system did not answer my question. I am interested in the as a whole has delivered great benefits to passengers. position of the tenants. The tenants do not realise There has been new private investment totalling £6.4 billion what is happening. I suggest empowering the tenants over the past 11 years, and passenger journeys on the by giving them the knowledge so that they can put rail network have more than doubled. The private pressure on the landlord, whoever it is. Will the Minister sector is paying for new trains across the country. answer my specific question, which is about the rights There are those who want this stopped because of a of tenants? dogma that the state could run the railways better, but we see the fruits of private investment all round the Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth: My Lords, I take the network. specific point that the noble Lord makes. It is not so There has been much misinformation about this much that something is happening; it is ensuring that franchise, so it is worth stressing again at the outset that is percolated down, as it were. It is a fair and that, because payments to the Government have been 1855 Rail Update [LORDS] Rail Update 1856

[BARONESS SUGG] consider this option only on the basis that the franchise subsidised by Stagecoach, the taxpayer has continued will be operated on a short-term, not-for-profit basis. to profit financially from this franchise. Passenger The only potential financial reward for Stagecoach satisfaction is high and preparations are well under would be received at the end of the contract and only way to deliver state-of-the-art new trains on this railway. in return for clearly specified passenger benefits and The problem is very straightforward. Stagecoach improvements being delivered. got its numbers wrong. It overbid and is now paying a The second alternative is that the east coast franchise price. would be directly operated by the Department for Contrary to widespread speculation and rumour, Transport through an operator of last resort. My no deal has been done on this railway and I have not department will subject this option to the same rigorous yet made a decision on the successor operator to run assessment to establish whether it will deliver value for the east coast line until the longer-term plans for the money for taxpayers and protect the interests of integration of track and train can begin in 2020. There passengers. This option is very much on the table and is no question of anyone receiving a bailout. Stagecoach will be selected if the assessment I have set out determines will be held to all its contractual obligations in full. As that it offers a better deal for passengers and taxpayers the Brown review said five years ago, this is what you than the alternative. would expect in a competitive franchise system—private businesses risk substantial amounts of their own capital, In either scenario, the east coast main line is expected and if they fail to live up to their stretching targets to deliver substantial revenue to the taxpayer. The line they lose out, not the taxpayer. will also continue to deliver premium payments to the To anyone who thinks that the nearly £200 million Government once the east coast partnership is in place that Stagecoach will lose is insignificant, let me put it from 2020. Let me be absolutely clear: the east coast into some context. The combined profit of every single franchise will deliver a healthy operating profit for train operator in the country was only £271 million taxpayers. It has over the course of this franchise so last year. The loss equates to over 20% of Stagecoach’s far, and it will in the future. total market value. So it is a significant amount of There will be those who claim that because Stagecoach money by any measure, and it should also act as a overbid, it should be excluded from bidding for future stark warning to any company tempted to overbid in franchises. The legal advice on this is clear. As Stagecoach future. Moreover, the franchising system has been is meeting its contractual obligations to support the adjusted to further deter over-optimism when bidding. franchise, including with the full parent company support, The priority now is to ensure the continued smooth and because it has operated the services on the east running of the east coast franchise for its passengers. I coast successfully, the department has concluded that have therefore asked my officials to conduct a full there are no adequate legal grounds to restrict it from appraisal of the options available to the Government bidding on current and future franchise competitions to ensure continuity of service until we implement the on this basis. It will be understood that it is my duty to east coast partnership on the route from 2020. My follow that legal advice, and I will therefore do so. But decision on which option to choose will be made in let me be clear: we will keep its eligibility for current accordance with the key principles set out in the and future bids under close scrutiny and constant Statement on how I use my rail franchising powers. review. This includes: protecting the interests of passengers; preserving the interests of taxpayers by ensuring value It is not just me who has encountered this restriction. for money; and supporting investment and improvement Following the failure of National Express in 2009, the in the railway, including the deployment of the new NAO report on the issue made it clear that the then intercity express trains on the east coast. Government and Secretary of State agreed that the In order to inform this decision, the department company would not be precluded from bidding for will assess the extent to which each option performs future franchises. Indeed, it went on to win the against these principles. Our value-for-money assessment c2c franchise in subsequent years. It is vital that we will be based on a number of criteria, including which continue to focus our attention on delivering benefits option returns most money to the taxpayer, the risks for passengers across the network and secure the benefits attached to each, and the value of any improvements of privatisation. in passenger services. I will also have regard to the So, in addition to the transparent, rigorous process effect of my decision on other franchises. This decision I have set out for the east coast, I am making some will be taken in a transparent way. The department’s additional franchising announcements that will deliver assessment of the options will be published and be benefits to passengers on the west coast and east properly validated. Midlands routes. In December 2016, we set out our At this stage, one of the options is to consider the plans to award the West Coast Partnership—the franchise possibility of Stagecoach continuing to operate services that will deliver the first passenger services on HS2. In on the east coast under a very strictly designed and that announcement, we made clear our intentions to short-term arrangement. The current management has agree a short, direct award with the incumbent to a strong record of customer service and to rule out its allow us the time necessary to design the West Coast involvement now would go against the principles that Partnership. These negotiations have been completed I have outlined above. However, given the circumstances and we have agreed a direct award with the existing in which the Government are having to step in to operator,Virgin Trains West Coast. As set out 14 months protect passengers on this line, I am prepared to ago, this is a sensible bridge between the existing 1857 Rail Update [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Rail Update 1858 contract and the West Coast Partnership, and once benefit from an ever-improving railway into the future. that partnership is ready, this direct award will cease to We have challenges to meet, but we will meet them. I exist. commend the Statement to the House”. Let me be clear, the east coast and west coast franchises should not be confused. The west coast 6.58 pm franchise has a completely different corporate structure, Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op): I thank where Virgin Trains is the majority shareholder, and is the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement made meeting all its contractual obligations. Virgin has in the other place earlier today.Railways were privatised transformed the west coast from a poorly performing in 1994. Whatever we think of privatisation—there service requiring a subsidy of over £75 million a year was lots going on at that time—it is fair to say that it to the franchise with one of the highest passenger has not gone well over the last few years. There were satisfaction rates, at 91%, and returning over £200 million problems with Railtrack, Network Rail and various per year to the taxpayer. This has included introducing companies, and here we are again with another problem trains every 20 minutes between London and Manchester with the railways. and London and Birmingham, hourly services between London and Scotland, installing wi-fi on all trains, Today’s announcement by the Secretary of State, lengthening Pendolinos to 11 carriages to accommodate repeated by the noble Baroness, is just another growing passenger numbers, and introducing a free, monumental misjudgment, and adds to a growing list at-seat entertainment service. of miscalculations by the Secretary of State. I do not think that taxpayers or rail passengers are at the heart My decision is also in keeping with the three key of this, or the rail industry itself. The culture in the principles I set out earlier in protecting passengers, Department for Transport is not serving the taxpayer ensuring value for money and supporting investment. or the travelling public well. I regularly use the railways I look forward to the release of the invitation to tender in and around London as well as to and from the for the West Coast Partnership in due course, and I am Midlands and the north of Scotland. With all the confident we will see strong competition for this exciting times that I have been detrained at Doncaster and new franchise, which will help transform rail travel in elsewhere, and the problems and frustrations on the this country through the delivery of the first HS2 east coast line, it is really just not good enough. services. It is frustrating to hear in the Statement what the We are also transforming the east Midlands franchise Minister said about the new tender, that of course we in the coming years, with the biggest investment in the cannot prevent the provider from actually tendering, Midland main line since it was completed in 1870. because legally we are not allowed to do that. That is Passengers will benefit from more seats, new trains fair enough, but I recall the public sector being prevented and dramatically reduced journey times from Nottingham from tendering for this contract; it was running it very and Sheffield to London. Once complete, there will be well but was not even allowed to tender, which is very almost twice as many seats into London St Pancras in frustrating. If we want to get the best value for taxpayers, the peak compared with today. The next operator will you want to get the best service possible. be required to deliver many of these improvements, so I am today setting out the next step of the competition I just do not believe that making direct awards to that will award this contract. Abellio, Arriva, Stagecoach Virgin/Stagecoach on the west coast or east coast and a joint venture between First and Trenitalia have represents good value for money at all. I am really not all been shortlisted to run the east Midlands franchise convinced by that one little bit. We now have a number that will deliver these improved services. As I said, the of train companies getting contracts without competition; Government have no adequate legal grounds to restrict many of our routes are now run that way—west coast, Stagecoach from bidding. The competition will be run Great Western, east Midlands, CrossCountry and now on a fair, transparent basis, including new safeguards east coast. That is because the Secretary of State is against overbidding. Ultimately, the winner will be the ideologically opposed to the public sector running firm that offers the best service to passengers and best railways; that is the political dogma that we have here value to the taxpayer. today in front of us. In a competitive market, franchises will sometimes The Statement from the Minister is lengthy, and I fail. When that happens my duty is to protect passengers have a couple of questions. The Statement said that and taxpayers and ensure continued investment in the the problem was that Stagecoach got the numbers railway. Stagecoach has paid the price for failure, as wrong, that it overbid and is now paying the price. stipulated in its contract. Passengers on the east coast Maybe the Minister can explain to the House whether, main line can be assured that services will continue as when the bid was submitted—I assume that it was normal. This Government will undertake a transparent analysed and looked at—anybody anywhere thought, appraisal of the options available to ensure that passengers “Oh, maybe they’ve got their figures wrong here”. At and taxpayers are protected. We remain committed to the end of the day, of course you want to get a lot of the success of a private railway. It is vital we remember money for your contract but, if it was actually not the benefits that privatisation has brought to our going to work, why did nobody spot that? Were any railway over the past 20 years. Passenger numbers questions raised anywhere, when that contract came have doubled. We have one of the safest railways in in? I would be very interested to hear what happened Europe. Passenger satisfaction is high across the network, with that contract. Also, with regard to contracts in and other countries are now adopting Britain’s model future, what is going to happen there? for running the railways. The plans I have set out The Statement talks about ensuring the, today will allow the British public to continue to “smooth running of the east coast franchise for its passengers”. 1859 Rail Update [LORDS] Rail Update 1860

[LORD KENNEDY OF SOUTHWARK] public/private partnership and public sector bodies? Can the Minister say a bit more about that? How will Maybe mutual models,which involve staff and passengers, the Government ensure that it will be a smooth operation could be allowed to bid as well. with no problems for passengers? I like the idea of this I also want to ask about the knock-on effect on short-term, not-for-profit basis for a railway. That is other franchises. It is known that other franchisees are the policy of the Co-operative Party. I have been a having a tough time. We need only a small hint of member of that party for many years, and we have a further problems in the economy and those franchisees policy for a people’s railway, with the whole railway could say, “The Government stepped in this time—why run on a not-for-profit basis. So I am delighted to can they not step in and help us?”. see that, even if it is only in one small part of the Finally, how is it that there is no adequate legal policy, the Government have actually taken that point ground to exclude Stagecoach from further bids at this on board. point? Surely the DfT should be writing the franchises Can the Minister say a bit more about the operator more tightly than this. of last resort? Who would that operator actually be? How would it actually be done? On the legal advice, Baroness Sugg: My Lords, as the Statement set out, the Minister said that they could not actually exclude our priority is to ensure the continued smooth running Stagecoach or anyone who failed. Would it not be wise of the east coast main line for the passengers who use to draw up the contract in such a way that, if an the service. As the Statement said, it has a 90% passenger operator fails to deliver on it, they cannot come straight satisfaction score, and we are looking at the future back in and have that contract again? They may need options for either direct operation through the DfT or to look at that as well because, if they cannot get the Stagecoach continuing to operate. We will look at each bid right, what is the point of having people running it of those options and work out the best solution to match who cannot get it done properly? the three principles set out. As the Statement says, it is I shall leave it there and look forward to the Minister’s a profitable line and we want that to continue in future. response on the issues that I have raised. On the franchising system and privatisation, the franchises will maintain an element of risk because Baroness Randerson (LD): I start from a rather they are run by private companies, and the success of different position, as I do not believe that the answer the franchise is down to how they run the service. I lies in renationalisation—but I am sure that the Minister think that the benefits of privatisation have been made will accept that things are not going well. We have had clear in the Statement. I could add that, back in the the fiasco of Southern and we have had Carillion mid-1990s, taxpayers paid out £1.8 billion in subsidies being given more and more contracts, despite the to the operators, and now the operators invest in the profit warnings. We have had HS2 and the unauthorised railways and pay premiums to the taxpayer—of payments, and now we have the east coast. The DfT £763 million last year. We have also seen investment of seems to be presiding over a tale of muddle and huge more than £6 billion from private investment over the commercial misjudgment. last 11 years. The Secretary of State in his Statement says that Weare continuing to improve and refine the franchising Stagecoach/Virgin overbid. We all knew that it had model. Obviously there was an overbidding in this done so; there was commentary in the commercial case, and we look at the performances of all franchises press at the time by other operators that this was a closely. In recent franchises, we have looked to take a hugely overoptimistic bid. Why did the DfT allow that different approach to the risks and are now moving bid to go ahead if it was unrealistic? more clearly towards the offer which will provide the The Statement says that, highest-quality service for passengers and away from “the franchise had breached a key financial covenant”. the highest bidder. The noble Baroness was absolutely Can the Minister please explain to us what that is, and right that passengers should be put first. why they are stepping in now as opposed to at any To address some of the lessons that we have learned other point? from previous franchise evaluations, we have introduced Much is made in the Statement of the £1 billion new measures to deter overbidding as well as improving return to the public purse, but does the Minister on our financial modelling and stress testing. With accept that the railways are run as a service to passengers this added testing, the department will be able to and that maybe the DfT is expecting far too great a forecast bids that are likely to default and exclude return to the public purse, and the whole concept on them in future. We have engaged with the market which this is based is unrealistic? The Government are about those changes and continue to highlight to slowly reducing the percentage subsidy to our railways prospective bidders the more rigorous testing that bids at a time when the railways are expanding and the will be subject to on the upcoming franchise competitions. number of passengers is generally increasing. Does On the operator of last resort, there will be a team the Minister accept that this is actually unrealistic as a within the Department for Transport, supported by way forward? specialist advisers, to maintain continuity of passenger I am glad that the Statement includes options for services. As I say, the changes in the rail strategy last the future and that among them it has the DfT as the year are designed to ensure that we get the best of operator of last resort. When that happened before, both public and private sector worlds, and the new rather a good job was done by the state stepping in, model will keep the benefits of privatisation while and I urge the Government to do that in the case of maintaining vital infrastructure in public hands. We Southern. Does the Minister consider that the concept have already begun this process of evolving how we of a franchisee needs to be expanded so that it includes run the railway. 1861 Rail Update [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Rail Update 1862

7.09 pm Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD): My Lords, there is a Lord Adonis (Lab): My Lords, there is a huge conflict in the Statement between what it is stated in amount of waffle in the Statement that the noble paragraph 7: Baroness has just repeated. But I shall cut through it: “The business will continue to operate … with no impact on Chris Grayling, the Secretary of State, is undertaking services or staff on the East Coast”, another unjustified bailout of Virgin and Stagecoach and what is stated in paragraph 18: at the expense of taxpayers. I would like to ask the “I have … asked my officials to conduct a full appraisal of the noble Baroness a few questions about this bailout. options available to the Government to ensure continuity of service”, First, will she confirm that Virgin has been awarded its until the fresh start in 2020. new contract for the west coast main line without any The noble Baroness may well recall that I tabled a competition whatever? Secondly, will she confirm that Written Question last week, which she kindly answered Stagecoach is being allowed to bid for the next three on 1 February. I had had a look at the press release franchises despite walking away from the east coast that was put out by Stagecoach when it got the main line? Thirdly, will she confirm that Mr Grayling franchise in the first place. It said that it would give appears, astonishingly,to be prepared to allow Stagecoach us direct services from Middlesbrough to London, to continue operating the east coast line despite walking two-hourly direct weekday services between Bradford, away from it, and that he has not ruled this out, Harrogate, Lincoln and London, and a new direct although he is putting in place legal procedures that peak-time service between Huddersfield and London, look to me to be the prelude to re-awarding it the to be established by May 2019. The noble Baroness contract? Fourthly—this affects my tenure in the office answered that the Government: of Secretary of State personally—will she confirm “expect to provide additional services between Lincoln, Harrogate, that it is quite wrong to say that National Express was Bradford and London from May 2019. It remains our intention not banned by me from bidding for future contracts in to deliver additional services to Middlesbrough and Huddersfield”. 2009? It was banned. The incoming Conservative She does not say when. She continued: Government in 2010 lifted that ban, which is a “Virgin Trains East Coast has contingent rights to run services fundamentally different point. I believe that that was a from London to Middlesbrough from May 2020 and firm rights from May 2021”. mistake and that it has prepared the way for the I do not know how strong they will be now. I do not problems that we face today. know when all this brewed up, but does she still stand Finally, will the noble Baroness confirm that the by these services commencing in May 2019 that she reason for these disgraceful bailouts which we have signed off on 1 February? seen from Mr Grayling is because he simply is not prepared to contemplate putting his duty above ideology Baroness Sugg: I thank the noble Lord for his and substituting for failing private companies a state question. On the issue of making sure that we get the company? This is not a matter of being left-wing or decision right for passengers, as the Statement said, right-wing; it is a matter of him performing his duties protecting the interests of passengers is the first principle as Secretary of State for Transport, which he is declining which we look at and we will be looking at the comparison to do because, as we heard in the Statement, he wants between the two on that basis. I have a copy of the to make a whole set of cheap points about “private reply to the noble Lord’s Question as I thought that he good, public bad”, which I think demean his office might bring it up; he helpfully read it out. We absolutely and are costing the taxpayer very dearly indeed. expect to meet those commitments. Whatever decision the Secretary of State makes on the running of the Baroness Sugg: I will attempt to answer the questions franchise up to 2019, whoever gets it will inherit those. the noble Lord raises. If I do not manage to answer all Again, with the new partnership in 2020, they will be of them, I will certainly follow up in writing. expected to deliver that. I am afraid that we do not recognise the bailout accusation. As I said, Stagecoach will be held to all its Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con): I for contractual obligations in full. It has returned nearly one am rather relieved and reassured that the Government £1 billion to the taxpayer and resulted in a nearly are stepping in before the situation adversely affects £200 million loss to the parent company. On the west passengers. This is not a bailout if Stagecoach is losing coast line, it was a direct award and no other bidder £200 million. However, I am delighted to hear that this was involved. As we stated in December 2016, we set line makes a net contribution to taxpayers. It is a line out the plans to award the West Coast Partnership well known to many in your Lordships’House. However, with that direct award. It is a short-term award and I would be most grateful if my noble friend the Minister there was no other bidder involved. It was put in place could give further details on how the Government will before the new West Coast Partnership was awarded. maintain the current high levels of customer satisfaction On whether Stagecoach was allowed to bid for continued on this line. franchises, as we said, it will bid for the new east Midlands franchise. We are keeping the legal advice on that under Baroness Sugg: As I pointed out, there is a high review, and we will see what happens in the coming level of passenger satisfaction on this line and we aim months, but as things stand Stagecoach is bidding for to continue to keep that. I reassure noble Lords that future franchises. The Secretary of State quoted the there will be no impact on the running of the trains 2009 NAO report. I will send the noble Lord a copy. and the services will continue. Tickets are valid as normal. The Secretary of State has today set out the Lord Adonis: It is not correct for the noble Baroness options being considered for the future. We are working to say that National Express was not banned from to ensure that passengers continue to receive the service bidding. It was banned from bidding. they expect. 1863 Rail Update [LORDS] Rail Update 1864

Lord Berkeley (Lab): My Lords, I detect a certain Lord Snape (Lab): Does the Minister accept that, amount of ducking and diving in this very long Statement. contrary to what my noble friend said earlier, she did I congratulate the Minister on keeping a straight face not keep a straight face while reading the Statement on some of it. However, the role of Network Rail is and grinned on a couple of occasions? This was entirely not mentioned at all. My understanding from several to her credit because she must know, in her heart, that sources is that Stagecoach’s contract was based the Statement is absolutely preposterous. This House on Network Rail undertaking a large number of is being asked to believe that the franchising system on enhancements on the east coast main line so that the east and west coast has been perfect, yet a Statement Stagecoach could run more trains, and, presumably, is being made that both are being scrapped. The get more revenue. This has not happened because, Minister said that there are no other bidders for the apparently, Network Rail has run out of money. Surely west coast, but no one has been asked to bid for it. If the answer is to give Network Rail the money to do the late Brian Rix were still alive, he could have a that and not blame Stagecoach for everything that Whitehall farce about the whole franchising business. has gone wrong, as I think that most of the blame Does the Minister accept that the Government have lies within the department and its own infrastructure not come out of this business with any credit, either manager, Network Rail. Perhaps the Minister would on the east or on the west coast? Can she confirm that like to comment. whoever bids for the Midland main line will not be running electric trains to the great cities of Leicester, Baroness Sugg: My Lords, I agree that there is no Nottingham and Derby but to the town of Corby, simple reason why the franchise has failed; there are a which until recently was not even on the railway map? number of reasons. The east coast has not performed That is not a railway project; it is lunacy. as expected. It can be attributed to external factors which were not predicted. For example, the decrease in Baroness Sugg: My Lords, I apologise if I did not petrol prices resulted in increased competition. On the keep a straight face throughout the Statement. I was a enhancements, from the start of this franchise to date little distracted by the noise from the Benches on the all the infrastructure upgrades planned for the east other side. On bidders for the west coast and east coast have been delivered. Further upgrades for the coast, the noble Lord is absolutely right that there was route are planned but were not due to be completed by a direct award for the west coast and we are considering this stage. It is clear that Network Rail’s overall the options for the east coast. Those are both short-term performance has not been satisfactory in recent years plans and in 2020 we will be opening them up to and we need a change within the business to deliver a further bids. We look forward to receiving them to more customer-focused policy. Network Rail has deliver what the passengers need. committed to transformation and an efficiency programme of change. That will see it judged on the performance Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con): My Lords, it seems to it delivers for passengers in partnership with train me that there is the past and there is the future, and I operators. We continue to push Network Rail to devolve know that there has been a lot of agonising in the to ensure that there is one route managing director department on the future of franchising. Will my directly accountable to passengers. noble friend summarise the improvements to the Lord Beith (LD): My Lords, the noble Baroness franchising process that the Government are planning, says that on a franchising system such as this operators including Network Rail’s role, to avoid the kind of will sometimes fail; I think those were her words. This problems that have been identified in relation to National is three times on the same route. I fancy that if GNER Express, Stagecoach and so on? Can we look forward? had been allowed to exit its contract on a basis as favourable as Stagecoach has been allowed to, with the Baroness Sugg: My Lords, I would absolutely love possibility of rebidding, it might not have left the line to look forward. As I set out, we are making improvements in the first place, which would have been helpful as it within the department. There was, obviously, a problem; was probably the best of the operators that we have the franchises failed and we are learning those lessons. had. But each time we are told, “Oh, the department is We are introducing measures to deter overbidding and refining its system. It is all going to be better next looking at our financial modelling and stress testing. time”. Given the three failures, is there really a system We hope that, with this added testing, we will be able in place which can judge bids at all? to forecast and exclude bids which are likely to default. We are continuously improving our risk-assessment Baroness Sugg: My Lords, on the failure of franchises, process to reduce the likelihood of overbidding in the the Statement quoted the Brown review, which identified future. As I said, we are working with Network Rail to that it is neither sensible nor realistic to design franchise ensure that it devolves its services and performs better structures that seek to completely eliminate the risk of in future. default. At the time, the department carried out an assessment to ensure that the bid was realistic and in Lord Judd (Lab): My Lords, I declare an interest as the best interests of taxpayers and passengers. However, a regular passenger on Virgin west coast, a not infrequent Stagecoach rightly took a degree of risk with its user of east coast and someone who, from time to assumptions. I do not recognise the noble Lord’s view time, has to make use of the services from St Pancras. that this has been a favourable exit for Stagecoach. As What has been sadly lacking in these exchanges is a I said, we are holding it to its obligations, and this has tribute to the staff: the train drivers, train staff, platform cost it dearly. It has lost almost £200 million running staff, clerks and people operating the signal system, the service—a big sum for a company which is worth without whom the railways simply would not operate. less than £1 billion. We are blessed with an incredibly committed and, on 1865 Rail Update [5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1866 the whole, cheerful staff who make sure the railways Baroness Sugg: My Lords, if Stagecoach continues are a success. Do all these shenanigans, uncertainty to run the service and it is decided that this would be and financial confusion give them the kind of support the best option for taxpayers and passengers, then that and structure they deserve? They are about serving the would be on a not-for-profit basis. By operating a nation, not making profits. In that sense, will the not-for-profit service, VTEC would only receive a Minister please accept that we have heard enough performance-related payment at the end of the contract, about the private sector being the right way to deliver assuming that it met the stretch target set out by the public services? Look at the prisons, the probation department. That would ensure that VTEC would be service, and now the railways. Where is the practical, wholly focused and incentivised to achieve excellent pragmatic evidence that what the Government claim is performance and would, consequently, provide a better true, as distinct from ideological fulfilment? experience for passengers over the life of a contract, but would not receive any moneys unless those targets Baroness Sugg: I am pleased that the noble Lord’s were reached. experience of staff on the trains is positive. He is absolutely right to say that they are committed. When Role of Women in Public Life we are making decisions about future franchises, we Motion to Take Note (Continued) are also trying to provide consistency and structure for them, so that they have the security of knowing that 7.29 pm the services will continue. I am afraid that I do not Baroness Janke (LD): My Lords, it is a great privilege agree with the noble Lord on privatisation. I have to join colleagues today in a debate commemorating spoken before about the amount of investment it has 100 years since women were first enabled to vote. I pay brought in. Passenger numbers have doubled; we have tribute to all those women who campaigned, struggled one of the highest satisfaction levels and safest networks and suffered, whether physically or mentally, but who in Europe. New trains would not have been delivered refused to give up the fight for votes for women. I without private investment from rail franchising. Some thank them for their courage, fortitude and determination 7,000 new carriages will be introduced to the rail to achieve a basic and fundamental right for women. I network between now and 2021. also thank all Members who highlighted the contributions and records of particular women throughout this long Lord Liddle (Lab): My Lords, I share the interests and important campaign. of my noble friend Lord Judd as a regular traveller on Although 100 years is a long time, attitudes and Virgin trains and agree with his kind remarks about mindsets have been very slow to change, as other the staff. I seek a point of clarification from the noble Lords have said. The battles that the suffragettes Minister about what she said in the Statement and in and campaigners fought were to counter beliefs that answer to questions. Is she saying that the Secretary of women were intellectually inferior, incapable of State has no legal power to ban Stagecoach from understanding such things as politics, and downright seeking to operate this franchise in future? Is it being dangerous if allowed to vote. Yet these same arguments seriously suggested that if Stagecoach tried to take the are used today in discussions about extending the vote Government to court, because it was not allowed to to 16 and 17 year-olds. I believe that they are as untrue bid, a judge would uphold its right, given the way it today as they were then. Young people are not only has let down the taxpayer in this instance? capable of understanding and evaluating arguments but have to do so much more than perhaps their Baroness Sugg: My Lords, as Stagecoach is meeting parents and grandparents did. As school curriculums its contractual obligations to support the franchise, have changed and learning has been transformed, including full parent-company support, and because it both in method and substance, it is essential that has operated the services on the east coast, there are proper education be provided so that our young people indeed no adequate legal grounds to restrict it from are enabled to be active, interested and sceptical citizens bidding in future franchise competitions. That is the of the 21st century. current situation: we will continue to look at it as the Education in citizenship in this country is patchy months progress and we look at future franchises. and variable in quality.How can such important subjects as how we are governed, our democratic rights and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab): My Lords, the how we exercise these rights be considered optional? Minister in the other place set out some admirable There has been much discussion on the failure of principles that should be observed: protecting the democracy and disenchantment among young people, interests of passengers; preserving the interests of yet they are the future and should have the chance to taxpayers by ensuring value for money; and supporting participate in an active way, to be consulted and to investment and improvement. Looking to the future, deliver their verdict through the ballot box. On the the Minister has indicated a possibility that the current 100th anniversary of the granting of women’s franchise east coast franchise may stay with Stagecoach, under a it seems timely to be considering extending democratic very strictly designed and short-term arrangement. rights, including full education on government and Will she spell out with more clarity what that involves? citizenship, to 16 and 17 year-olds. I hope that the Unless there is some easement on the money side, the Government will be listening and will at least soon three principles which the Minister has set out cannot enable a consultation and public debate on the subject. be met and there must be some give on at least one of Coming back to women’s rights, there have been them. What is likely to happen if we do go down that significant achievements. Many of us here today will avenue? have real-life experience of times when low status and 1867 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1868

[BARONESS JANKE] and this evening? I hope that next year we can get even lower expectations were the norm for women. I closer to parity—so I shall be enlisting the help and can remember when I was growing up that the view support of my noble friend Lady Jenkin in this cause. was held by some that educating girls in anything This debate is about the long fight for women to other than basic skills and domestic tasks was a waste play their full part in the public life of our country. It of time. Girls had to demonstrate much higher levels is about the long battle against the deeply entrenched of ability to study science subjects and to be considered prejudice that there are jobs that women cannot do, capable of higher education. Indeed, I knew many should not do, or cannot do as well as men. The battle who did not challenge this and left school at 15 to go has gone on for a century—and it still goes on. Many to work. My own mother, who was a widow, understood noble Lords have of course mentioned the Act passed that sometimes, as happened to her, women had to in 1918, which gave women—although only some—the manage alone and bring up their children without the vote and which allowed them to stand for the House support of a man, and that earning sufficient money of Commons. But a long road still lay ahead. It took was possible only with an education. another 40 years before women could become Peers However, in 2016, 59% of all undergraduates were and Members of the House of Lords. women and now they lead the way in high achievement. We have the Equal Pay Act and other rights for Fast forward to 1957, when Harold Macmillan’s women, including maternity leave and pension entitlement. Conservative Government brought in the Life Peerages But after 100 years of progress, as other noble Lords Bill. The Bill was broadly welcomed, but there was have said, only 34% of MPs and 26% of Lords are opposition to one provision: the admission of female women. It seems scarcely believable that only since Peers. I will give your Lordships an indication of the 1958 have women been Members of this House. Equally, kind of prejudice that the campaigners were up against, 60% of FTSE companies have failed to meet the even as recently as the 1950s. I will read to your 25% target for female representatives on their boards— Lordships what one Peer said in that debate: and, despite the Equal Pay Act, the gender pay gap is “Frankly, I find women in politics highly distasteful … I still widening: it was 18.1% in 2016 and 18.4% in 2017. believe that there are certain duties and certain responsibilities Unsurprisingly, the historic gender pay gap results which nature and custom have decreed men are more fitted to take on … It is generally accepted … that a man’s judgment is in a pension pay gap across every occupation. A report generally more logical and less tempestuous than that of a woman. published in January 2018 from Aegon demonstrates Why then should we encourage women to eat their way, like acid that the pension pay gap gets worse as women get into metal, into positions of trust and responsibility which previously older. At 50, the average female pension is worth men have held? … If we allow women into this House, where will £56,116, and the average male pension is worth £112,789. this emancipation end?”. A woman would have to find a contribution of £360 a He ended his speech by saying that, month to gain equality with a man. “we like women: we admire them; sometimes we even grow fond A recent IFS report says that for every £1 a man of them; but we do not like them here”.—[Official Report, 3/12/1957; receives, a woman receives £32. Nearly a quarter of cols. 710-11.] single female pensioners live in poverty. Women suffer Fortunately, the House of Lords overruled him. To as a result of the gender pay gap; they are not treated give that Peer credit, 25 years later he happily and equally, so pension contributions are also unequal. loyally served in the Government of Margaret Thatcher Women suffer even at the end of their lives for having and disowned his remarks. taken breaks in their career to have and bring up children. They are often in low-paid jobs with little However, progress elsewhere was still slow. I was pension, and are more likely to be part-time workers amazed to realise that it was not until the 1960s that with limited entitlement. The OECD reports that the we had the first female judge, and we had to wait until UK has the lowest state pension of any developed the 1970s before women were admitted as members of country as a percentage of earnings. There is also a the London Stock Exchange. Then there was a big high dependence on private pensions, where women breakthrough in 1975 with the election of a woman to receive much less than men. So I hope that, as part of lead the Conservative Party. At the time, many people the legacy of 100 years of women’s franchise, a revisiting thought that a woman leader, whom they caricatured of women’s pension rights—including the 1950s WASPI as shrill and shallow, would be an electoral disaster for women, as described by the noble Baronesses, Lady the Conservatives. I am told that on the evening that Bakewell and Lady Donaghy—will pave the way for Mrs Thatcher was elected leader, Denis Healey went fair treatment of women and will provide all women round the House of Commons poking Conservative with a pension they can live on. MPs in the ribs and saying, “Out for a generation. Out The sacrifice made by so many campaigners places for a generation”. Of course, Mrs Thatcher became a responsibility on us all. We must step up the fight for the longest-serving Prime Minister of the century. equality of representation, reinvigorate our democracy Whatever one thinks of her politics, she showed the and extend participation, and battle as the suffragettes world and a new generation of women that a woman did to end the injustice still suffered by so many can do a man’s job. Indeed, so much so that when in women throughout their lives. 1990 John Major became Prime Minister,my 11 year-old niece was shocked to find a man doing the job. She 7.36 pm thought that, with the Queen as sovereign and Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con): First, can I say Mrs Thatcher as Prime Minister, women running the how proud I am to be part of the 25% of speakers—in country in a kind of matriarchy was the norm and that other words, men—who are speaking this afternoon a male Prime Minister was rather strange. 1869 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1870

But still the battle had to go on—and it carries not be a woman Prime Minister for another 20 years. on today, well into the 21st century. I refer of course So sometimes time speeds up and sometimes it is very to the BBC. The BBC apparently committed to slow. transparency—but in name only, because for years it We have heard lots of very good speeches, especially hid the gender pay gap, which at last has been exposed. reminiscences and examples of people who are not in I saw Carrie Gracie give evidence to the House of the public eye. I want to make a suggestion which has Commons Select Committee last week. I heard her not been made so far. I think that we need a museum say, as people will have read, how the BBC had tried to for the women’s franchise and their struggle for the vote. justify her unequal pay by telling her that for the first I have recently been associated with another museum three years as the BBC’s China editor she had been “in which my wife has set up, the theme of which is the development”. Those in the BBC responsible for that partition of India and Pakistan. Memories are still alive should be ashamed of themselves. Christina Lamb, there—they have been recorded. We can still record the highly distinguished journalist who has worked for people’s memories about their mothers and other people the Financial Times and the Sunday Times, was on they knew. Those memories of women who were local “Desert Island Discs” a couple of weeks ago. She said councillors, mayors and so on need to be preserved for that in 30 years she had never had a female foreign or posterity. If we do not do so, they will be lost. It would news editor. involve a lot of work and a lot of money, which I am So prejudice persists and, sadly, it still does in some sure could be raised from private donations. I urge not areas of politics.Seven years ago,in 2010, John McDonnell necessarily the Government but people here to make a MP said that he wished he could go back in time and concerted effort to set up a museum to pay tribute to assassinate Margaret Thatcher. Then in 2014 he repeated women’s progress in our society. Of course, there has remarks which had been made by somebody else about not been enough progress, as we all know. lynching Esther McVey. I played it back last night. Far In this debate there has been talk about suffragettes from condemning the remarks, he quoted them versus suffragists, but I do not think you can have one approvingly—and they were followed by laughter from without the other. The suffragists, starting in the 1890s, the audience. I know that he has now tried to disown patiently burrowed away at Parliament but eventually those remarks—and rightly so, because surely, following it was the suffragettes who made progress. They may the murder of Jo Cox, people should realise how have publicly lost the support of the Commons but inflammatory and dangerous such casual language I can tell your Lordships that the Members of the can be. Therefore, I welcome the prospect of legislation Commons were frightened out of their wits. The from this Government to protect parliamentary candidates suffragette movement was perhaps the most violent from abuse and intimidation. political movement in the British Isles—even more This is a hugely important debate and I have only violent than many trade union movements had previously one regret—I wish that more men were taking part been. However, something like that had to be done to in it. wake people up to the fact that there was a burning desire on the part of women to get some sort of 7.44 pm equality. Of course, the First World War helped as Lord Desai (Lab): My Lords, it is a pleasure to well. It was not just the suffragettes and suffragists; follow the noble Lord, and perhaps I may match him Rosie the Riveter helped too. Had women not worked story for story. In 1834, when this building was burned as a vital part of the wartime economy, men would not down, the House of Commons had to meet in the old have realised that women could do more than just sit House of Lords, which had somehow miraculously at home and cook. Therefore, those three things—the survived. In 1835 there was a proposal that galleries suffragettes, the suffragists and the First World War— should be added to the Chamber so that women could together were very helpful in building the case for come to watch the proceedings. The House of Commons, women’s suffrage. to a man, was shocked at the idea that women should Many noble Lords have mentioned that, yes, there be allowed to watch them. As one Member said, if has been equal suffrage, but there has not been equality. women were there, it would cramp their style—I have One has to say that getting the vote is a very small part put that into modern parlance—and therefore it would of the struggle for equality. There is no equality among be a bad thing. Luckily, they were overruled and men, there is no equality among women and there is women were able to watch politicians in Parliament. no equality between men and women. Political action So progress has been made, although it has been and political democracy are a very small part of what rather slow. generates the day-to-day inequalities in income and I have another story. In about 1974—I think it was wealth. We could talk about all sorts of disadvantages before Mrs Thatcher was elected as leader—I was that we find very hard to remove, and there are parts babysitting my young daughter, who was about two or of the world that still have gender selection of children. three years old, and I took her to the LSE. It was a Women suffer disadvantages from birth onwards. Very glorious summer’s day and we were standing outside a often, even well-to-do families will send their boys to pub. Robert McKenzie, my colleague at the LSE, was private school but their girls to the local state school. there and I said, “What do you think of Shirley The advantages for the male child are built in from the Williams’s future? How soon do you think she could early years onwards. Those things add up. be Prime Minister?”. Robert McKenzie looked at my Substantial equality between men and women and daughter and said, “It will be lucky if we have a between all people is a distant goal that we will be able woman Prime Minister by the time your daughter to achieve, but political action is one thing that we can attains maturity”. In 1974 he thought that there would do now collectively. That is why it is important that we 1871 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1872

[LORD DESAI] appointed to the boards of public bodies demonstrated go on, through the legislative process, trying to remove that quotas in isolation had previously failed to work. the many disadvantages that women suffer. We must They failed to address the real barriers and obstacles hope that, in the future, other people will follow our that women faced. A key point was that the insistence path and achieve equality. So I welcome this debate on track record and proven experience meant that the and I look forward to the debate in 10 years’ time, same candidates were constantly being recycled from when we will celebrate the centenary of universal one board to another and did not allow for new adult franchise. That is when the country became a participants. By replacing such a requirement with an real democracy. emphasis on talent and ability, we managed to expand Let me add one more thing. The impact of 1918 the field of female candidates. We made other small and 1928 was even more profound on the Commonwealth. changes, such as the requirement that job advertisements All the countries that became independent from the should be written in intelligible English, and we held Commonwealth had, at the outset, universal adult events to persuade and encourage women to apply. It franchise. India had universal franchise for men and was not rocket science, but the difference was quite women in 1950, upon its birth. That would not have clear: over 45% of appointments to public bodies in happened without 1918. That is a tribute to what was 2016-17 were to women, which continued an upward achieved. trend from five years ago when the figure stood at 34%. Weapplied a similar practical approach when tackling 7.52 pm gender diversity in the Civil Service. We commissioned Baroness Finn (Con): My Lords, I thank my noble a report from the Hay Group, which was given a remit friend Lady Vere of Norbiton for moving this Motion to be brutally honest, identify real problems and barriers, to mark 100 years of women winning the right to vote. and make practical recommendations. Its Women in It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Desai, Whitehall report was an eye-opener. Despite policy with whom I agreed on quite a lot. being broadly in line with best practice, and in some It is always good to stand and reflect on how far we cases being described as “leading edge”, the culture have come and how much more there is to achieve. It is and leadership climate was identified as preventing right to pay tribute to the extraordinary—and the women progressing into senior roles. Line manager ordinary—women who put their lives on the line for practice was variable, so experiences of leadership and equality,and to those who have tirelessly and passionately talent were something of a lottery. Many women advanced the cause, a number of whom are sitting in simply did not believe that the rhetoric on policy and the Chamber this evening. But we should remember promotions matched the reality on skills and behaviours. the motto adopted by Emmeline Pankhurst and her I do not have time to go into all the detailed daughters when they founded the WSPU: “Deeds not findings, and I am sure noble Lords are grateful for words”. It is easy to talk about equality and to impose that, but I will highlight some of the more revealing. arbitrary quotas. It is far harder to ensure that all One man described the contrast between the stated talent flourishes and to show the courage, honesty and way that promotions are made—on competence—and relentless determination needed to tackle the real problems. the way that they are really made, which was on The increase in the number of female Conservative personal recommendation and cronyism. A woman MPs owes a huge debt to a force of Baronesses—my described how she applied for a promotion but failed noble friend Lord Sherbourne assured me earlier that to get an interview because, “force” was the correct collective noun. The combined “I would have performed better than the preferred candidate—it force of my noble friends Lady Seccombe, Lady Morris was his turn for promotion”. and Lady Jenkin has certainly helped to support and The leaders of the Civil Service were described as promote many female MPs and candidates. I know simply “not leading” and the culture as “cut-throat that when my noble friend Lord Maude, as party and underhand”. It was all quite shocking, and we chairman, made it his mission that the Conservative commissioned further reports on LGBT, BME and Party’s MPs should be more representative of modern those with disabilities, which in turn informed the Britain, many were sceptical about whether we could Talent Action Plan, published in March 2015. succeed without all-women shortlists. I have heard the I mention this plan because I fear that what has persuasive arguments in the Chamber, but I still believe subsequently happened highlights the ongoing gap that quotas and targets are rarely the answer by themselves. between words and deeds. The Talent Action Plan was Persuasion and merit work far better. a two-year plan with key deliverables and specific and While the battle is well under way, it is far from measurable objectives. In March 2016, the Cabinet won. The moral and business cases for promoting Office published a detailed progress report, highlighting women are beyond question, so we need to ask ourselves an increase in unconscious bias training and that all why more women do not rise to the top tiers of public Permanent Secretaries now had diversity objectives. life. While organisations mostly acknowledge the need However, it is relatively easy to increase training and to be more inclusive and policy intentions are clear, to write objectives; it is far harder to address underlying their implementation is often inconsistent, unco-ordinated problems of culture and the various application of and lacking in real drive and commitment. “Deeds not policies across departments. The two-year progress words” must remain the maxim. report on the implementation of the Talent Action The narrow focus on targets and quotas has failed Plan was due last March. It has not been published. to change the culture, and indeed can sometimes harm The Minister for BEIS at the time wrote after a debate the cause. Our successful experience during the coalition in April to say that the, Government of increasing the number of women “Civil Service has implemented the majority of actions”. 1873 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1874

The plan has now been superseded by the diversity The debate is to celebrate what we have achieved in and inclusion strategy, which tells us: the past and where we wish to be. Moving forward, “We have made good progress but we know that we need to go after the next general election, I think that we are further”. agreed across the political divide that we would like to There is no granular and transparent evidence to show see a larger proportion of women in Parliament and in what practical advances were made, what remedies the elected Assemblies. We should be striving for 50%. worked and what practical issues remain. This was the To achieve that, political parties must agree to having original commitment. I worry that without such focus all-women shortlists for the next three elections. It is the diversity and inclusion strategy will be yet another possible under the Equality Act. We should take a lead grand strategy, full of bland and worthy platitudes, from my party, which did this with the help of the but which, like so many, fails to implement itself. trade unions and the leadership of Harriet Harman and Prime Minister Blair. That made the change for The commitment to women’s progress in public life our party. Unfortunately, we did not continue in that is hard work and we need to get it right. It requires way with all-women shortlists and there were other strong leadership and concerted action. I applaud, difficulties around the electorate. We should try together admire and pay tribute to those who fight, and who to push for that because that will really make the have fought, long and hard, but the battle is not over. change. It will not be over until the old joke—“That’s a very good point, Miss Smith, perhaps a man would like to Women are often discouraged from standing because make it”—becomes unrecognisable and part of history. of the violence and verbal harassment against other I fear that we are still some way off that time. women politicians that they have seen in the media and in the way that they have been stalked. We need to 7.59 pm see legislation tougher and quicker in these situations. Baroness Goudie (Lab): It is a great pleasure to We must look for a way to make the pipeline easier follow my colleague, the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, for women to become interested in politics—not just who has been working on the issues that I and turning up, as we all know, to the dreadful branch others have been working on and will talk about meetings that are all right for the very committed. this evening. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, They will come later. Let us really encourage women; for arranging this historic debate today to celebrate then they can see some of the more boring sides of life, 100 years of the Representation of the People which are also important because we cannot get policy Act 1918 receiving Royal Assent and the continuing change without meeting with the electorate. role of women in public life. What would have happened With Britain’s influence, we can persuade other without the passion and commitment of our ancestors, countries to have better representation of women. We those old and young and from all work walks of life know in countries that are war-torn, part of the peace who were bound together to pursue, demonstrate and process is to have a 50:50 Parliament. On that issue, we lobby politicians until it was accepted that women must also ensure that Britain takes a firm stand about should have the vote? They went down many difficult women at the peace table. Local women are there. roads. They make the decisions, as I have told this House In 1918, the vote gave women from the age of many times. War is over when women say that enough 30 with property the right to vote in parliamentary is enough. They have every right to be at the peace elections for the first time. The key development of table, as they fought for in Northern Ireland. We need women having the right to stand for election to the to have more women who are trained, as they are House of Commons quickly followed. In 1928, women being trained at the LSE and in Georgetown, to be had equal voting rights to men. In our House, it took part of that peace process with other women some time and we saw the creation of women life Peers parliamentarians. When women are in Parliament and in 1958. I thank the late Baroness Bea Serota, who was at the peace table, the peace lasts; when it is only men, a great mentor to me. When I was a local councillor, it lasts five minutes. It is an important issue for us and she was in Camden while I was in Brent. When I came for this House. Women bear the brunt of all of this. to this House, she was wonderful to me right up until I ask noble Lords to think about the women in the she died. FTSE 100 and in the 250. Where are the women I would like to think that, in Great Britain, we are CEOs? The disproportionate number of women is leading the world on women in public life. To an staggering. In 2010, the 30% Club was launched in the extent we are, compared with a lot of other places, United Kingdom by me and my colleague Dame including America, which I have to say is going backwards. Helena Morrissey and it is now in many major countries We were brought up years ago to think that America around the world. The goal is to reach a percentage of was the future, but it is no longer and they are having 30% of women executives in the boardroom and on to fight today to keep the rights that none of us executive committees by 2020. The 30% Club has thought would be taken away from women. We must developed what has become an international business-led also look today to ensure that the rights that we have approach for developing a pipeline of senior executive can never be taken from us. talent. The 30% Club does not believe in quotas. We Great Britain has women in public life. We have believe in a voluntary, business-led approach to realise more women qualified as lawyers, doctors, engineers meaningful and sustainable change. and accountants and in the STEM subjects. But where Our plan works in conjunction with senior business are they at the top? They are not getting the opportunity leaders, government, men and women working together to move further up, and we have to fight for that. to achieve measurable change. Our strategies complement 1875 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1876

[BARONESS GOUDIE] How do we get there? The noble Baroness, Lady individual company approaches and networking. With Morris, who is also a friend, said that we should work the help of the Davies commission and now Hampton- across the parties and learn from each other. That is Alexander, we hope to be able to take things further because we seem to agree on the target. There are forward. different ways to move forward and different pressures, Statistics show that companies with more diverse but unless we start to learn from each other, we are not boards perform better. One reason is that diverse actually going to achieve the target. The cultures and boards often better mirror customer and client bases. political stresses in the parties will fight against each Having a diverse board can help better understand other and slow things down unless we can establish a purchasing and consumption decisions, particularly degree of consensus. The great virtue of this House is because women drive 70% to 80% of all purchasing. that we can probably start to get some consensus a Listening to and including the viewpoints of a diverse little more easily than you can down the Corridor, and board brings a new perspective and new ideas. Above that is a fact. We are dealing with a practical question, all, it helps the organisation to succeed. and unless we work together, we will not get there as I ask noble Lords today not only to acknowledge quickly, easily and sustainably as we might otherwise. and celebrate the changes that have taken place for The other thing that attracted me to this debate was women in the past 100 years but to realise that, deep the fact that gender balance in representation is another within, these changes took strength, grit and perseverance example of how, if you want to change society, you to come to fruition. I ask all of us in this Room to have to be incredibly persistent. Most of the activities capture a sense of that strength and courage in order I have taken on in this House have been in the area of to continue to take action for true equality for women. disability, where you hear similar types of arguments It was not easy 100 years ago for our forefathers who in different packages: “Oh, you can’t do that because”, started the momentum. It is our job and our duty to or, “I know we can make the change, but really we continue to look for a robust pipeline for the future haven’t done it before”, or, “What do you mean I have leaders of this country. got to change the way I behave?”. That last is the worst 8.06 pm one, and if anyone who has worked in this field has Lord Addington (LD): My Lords, I am a representative not come across it, I will buy them many beers. It is of the minority 25%. Indeed, it is slightly worse than something that we have to address, so taking the that, because I am a hereditary Peer with an older sister. messages from this area of social change is very valuable because, let us face it, it is the one which has the most Noble Lords: Oh! experience and the most form. You also have potentially the biggest lobby, and it might set good examples to Lord Addington: Yes. I thought that my spiritual help you carry on. But unless there is a coherent gum-shield might be required today. attitude of persistence by saying that certain changes If we accept that we have a society comprised of must be made, all of these areas will struggle. more than 50% of one group, that group should probably be represented in roughly that number among We hear things like, “It doesn’t concern me and it’s those who make the decisions about it. You will okay because no one’s complained”. That is the best understand it better and have a better way in and so one. “We have never asked the question, we have never forth. You will be able to understand the pressures and considered it, it has never arisen, so there is no problem things going on. That is a reasonable assumption to and let’s move on”. You might hear, “We’ve passed a make. But it is one that has the weight of history bit of legislation, so for the politicians the job is against it. It also has a great track record of people done”. We only get dragged back to look at an issue trying to change that. That is what drew me to this when the campaigners say, “It hasn’t worked”, or, “It debate. Why has it not happened? hasn’t worked properly”. We must take this example into all areas of social change so that we go back, A hundred years ago, women arrived as voters, and re-examine and make sure that what we are doing is very closely after that they arrived as representatives. right. Ultimately, time has to be spent on readdressing Then there was a very staggered process through. The issues. amazing thing, looking at the guidance provided by the Library, was that in 1964 we had 29 female MPs. What we do not do, and this is a problem across We did not exceed that number until 1987—six general Parliament as a whole, is say, “Okay, we have passed elections in a row there were fewer. That suggests that the law, so now let’s see how it works in practice”. If positive action is required. Then we should discuss we had done that in the areas I have talked about and what type of action. in the areas other noble Lords could talk about it—if We have heard two primary schools of thought passing a law were enough—there would not be a here—either to change the structure or to drive change problem. “We have the Equality Act. Hey, job done through by action out there with shortlists. I suspect and problem solved. Go away”. But it does not happen that we will have to work from both to achieve change like that, because you have to go in and back it up. We if we are not to wait another 100 years to get close. But have two models in this area: affirmative action and if we achieve change only by affirmative action, we culture change. Unless we learn to bring them together, have also failed. You have achieved balance when we are going to come back and applaud ourselves for getting 50% is not a big deal and is not a surprise. You making small changes, not for the big ones. I hope that have it when you get to the point where you can say, we can make progress and take the examples set in this “This time it was 52% and then it was 48%”. That is area into other parts of our society that desperately what happens when you achieve true equality. need them. 1877 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1878

8.13 pm First, deeply ingrained gender stereotyping starts early on. When my daughter was barely four years-old Baroness Bertin (Con): My Lords, I agree with so she bounced in to the kitchen saying, “Mummy, I much of what the noble Lord, Lord Addington, has want to be a nurse”. I was delighted, until she followed just said. Women are now leading and shaping this up by saying, “I would quite like to be a doctor, but country like never before, but while it is right to only boys can be doctors”. This was last year. I have recognise progress, it would be wrong to become no idea where she gets this into her head—in fact I do, complacent. I am afraid that once you scratch the it is “Peppa Pig”, but moving on—but it serves to surface, it is clear that there is still significant inequality highlight my point that it starts early and is very of power between men and women in this country. subtle. It can still subconsciously drive women and The quality of women in Parliament does go some men down different paths. way to making up for the lack of quantity, and we on the Conservative Benches owe my noble friends Lady Secondly, we should be open and cognisant of the Jenkin, Lady Seccombe and Lady Morris a great deal female tendency to be a bit more cautious. I have done on this front. So although the situation is much improved, it myself and I have witnessed it time and again in female levels of representation are still a long way both my professional and my personal life—passing from being good enough. We, like the other place, off opportunities or perhaps not speaking out in that need to be more representative of society generally, crowded meeting because I did not feel 100% qualified. and if not, we surely risk being irrelevant and some of We need to engender girls from an early age with a the rocks that are thrown at us are sometimes justified. strong and resilient self-belief. We also need to keep that ambition going throughout their lives. We all know why women are not running into I also thank my mother, who is watching this debate. politics in their droves. Spectacles like PMQs, with all She gave up her career to look after us, so I owe her a its braying and shouting, are big turn-offs, as is the great deal. To borrow a phrase from others this evening, combative,aggressive default position of many politicians. I do indeed stand on her shoulders. We need to show each other more respect in politics. We all want the same thing after all, which is to make I have been unbelievably fortunate in my career. I the country a better place, but we sometimes disagree have had several brilliant bosses—all male, I might on the route to get there. More signs of working add—who never put any limitations on what they felt I together to get the right outcome and less division could achieve. I drew enormous confidence and strength would make political life more appealing to many from their belief in me. I do not think it can be people, and not just women. We also need to practise underestimated how powerful mentoring and coaching what we preach in Westminster. There would be outrage can be. It frustrates me that it is very often still only if business tried to ape some of our loose employment the preserve of senior executives. It should be encouraged structures. Harriet Harman made this point well last right from the get go, starting in education and continuing week. If we want more women to seriously consider throughout a career. politics as a career, which no one disputes we do, then Finally, on children and jobs, we should be honest we have to find ways to make ourselves more appealing about how challenging this can be, if and when children and more modern. come along. All the talk of superwomen having it all is The media also have a part to play in this. I do not not very helpful to most women in this country.“Leaning suggest that they should stop holding politicians to in” is all very well if you are a highly paid executive account by going soft, but I do think the relentless with wraparound childcare, but less so if you are a aggression sometimes shown to reasonable politicians single parent or if both of you work very long hours simply setting out their stall must surely eat away at and there is a hard stop for nursery pick-up. It also the numbers of women wanting to sign up to life as an should not be a crime against your career to want to MP. Technology is supposed to be a great leveller, but see your children awake during the week. with the easy availability of hardcore porn often degrading Organisations that show little or no flexibility will women and the seemingly endless pressure to be body lose good people, but particularly women. Women do beautiful, social media need to make sure they do not not want special treatment, but we do deserve a level play an unintended part in holding women back. playing field. If a woman takes time out to have a Moreover, the persistent trolling and intimidation of child then companies must try to ensure that the MPs, or indeed anyone, on Twitter for standing up for broken service does not serve to level off her opportunities. their views is a sickening and unattractive development They must also try to help her maintain the same level of public life. of ambition. This debate is about recognising the progress that Laws and legislation are not the only answer, but has been made in increasing our numbers in Parliament, the Government should be rightly praised for the but we have a duty to represent those who are nowhere proactive role they have played. Shared parental leave near public life, and I want to broaden my speech out and gender pay reporting are arguably the biggest with that in mind. All of us recognise that there is no thunderclap moments for this agenda in many years. easy switch that can simply be flicked to solve the Legislation makes organisations and companies look stubborn issue of gender inequality. The subject is at themselves in the mirror and ask painful questions, complex and tied up with long-standing cultural forcing them to interrogate internally.“Could we change attitudes that both men and women still hold. While I the culture at the top to promote fairness? Are we do not pretend to have all the answers, a good place to creating an environment where the juggle is sustainable? start is being more honest and open about the potential Is there flexibility? Is there an option of a meaningful barriers. job share, weekend travel bans and”—most importantly 1879 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1880

[BARONESS BERTIN] Manchester was,of course,where Emmeline Pankhurst in my mind—“a stamping out of a macho culture that held the first meeting of the Women’s Social and sniggers behind its hand at shared parental leave or Political Union in 1903. It may not be generally known dads playing a bigger role?”. Equality at home is the that Pankhurst was voted the greatest northerner in ultimate game-changer for equality in the workplace. history in a recent poll. A statue to her will be unveiled Nothing in isolation offers an overnight panacea, in Manchester in 2019. I was born and brought up but I hope they all add up and over time help to shift close to Manchester and I am proud of the northern attitudes even further. The signs are good: the intellectual suffragettes; not all upper-class ladies but also women argument has been won. Nobody could argue that who worked in mills and in domestic service. In passing, society is not far healthier if it is balanced and fair, but I say that while we celebrate women in public life we we must march on and keep the pressure up to make should also celebrate the women who may never be in sure a debate such as this at the bicentenary would be public life, nationally or internationally, but who work long obsolete. hard and diligently to bring up children, to care for members of their family, to do volunteer work, work in the professions and toil in the lower ranks of 8.21 pm politics—we all know what that is like. Here’s to them. Baroness Massey of Darwen (Lab): My Lords, I so welcome this debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Just after the women’s march, I read in an American Vere, for introducing it with such vigour. Speeches magazine comments on the #MeToo movement. It from men and women in such debates are always reminded me that women attain professional goals, enjoyable and powerful. It is always wonderful to hear or sometimes simply do a job, under duress and how so many amazing women are being celebrated. discrimination. This means that courage and drive Womenmaynotbecontent,rightly,withunderrepresentation play a part. I quote from that article: in Parliament or in top jobs, with unequal pay and “Women in positions of power know one thing for sure: other gender discrimination, and with unacceptable they’re leaving the world a much better place than they found it”. harassment and abuse, but women have much to be proud of and to rejoice in. Studies have shown that female participation in the I am proud that last week, in the Second Reading of labour market improves the strength of economies. the withdrawal Bill in your Lordships’ House, 48 women From working on boards and in Parliament, I believe spoke confidently and incisively on divisive issues. that women’s contributions improve the depth and From these Benches, I was proud of the scintillating quality of decision-making. There is much more to be performances of my noble friends Lady Smith and done in persuading women into and retaining them in Lady Hayter,a team who have worked tirelessly,endlessly public life. It is true that powerful women will leave a and patiently to present so effectively the complexities legacy, but not without tapping the shoulders of the facing us regarding Brexit. The debate was relatively next generation to continue the fight. respectful and good humoured on all sides, from men Speaking of tapping the shoulder, Millicent Fawcett and women. It was an example of knowledgeable and acknowledged Mary Wollstonecraft as the “leader in analytical presentation, enhanced, I believe, by the the battle” for votes. One was born in 1759, the other presence of women, just as I believe that today’s debate in 1847. Fawcett will shortly have a statue in Parliament is enhanced by the participation of 10 men—most of Square. Wollstonecraft, for some inexplicable reason, them are not here, but there were 10 altogether. I am has no memorial except her novels, histories, the great proud that women are moved to protest against put-downs, treatise “A Vindication of the Rights of Women” and, insults and affronts to their bodies. On 20 January, of course, as the mother of Mary Shelley. Surely it is women in the United States marched in cities to protest time that she received some visible accolade as a leader against the Trump concept of their place in society. in the feminist movement. My daughter, an American, was there and sent me a picture of a placard saying: “We are the granddaughters I move on to more recent events, with two women of the witches you never burned”. Anyone from of contrasting backgrounds that I want to mention Lancashire or Massachusetts will appreciate that remark again. Nancy Astor became the first woman MP to and celebrate women’s resilience and determination. take her seat in the House of Commons. In her maiden It is a good sign that one daily newspaper last week speech she spoke these words: had a huge spread on the history of women’s suffrage. It is wonderful that cities around the UK will be “I am simply trying to speak for hundreds of women and children throughout the country who cannot speak for celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Representation themselves”.—[Official Report, Commons, 24/2/20; col. 1631.] of the People Act in dynamic ways in the coming months. I know there are problems with grass-roots It is a familiar theme in our Parliament. Margaret funding for projects and I regret that, but today in my Bondfield, a working-class girl from Somerset, became local tourist office in Lewes, Sussex, I saw a wonderful the first female Cabinet member in 1929, in a Labour window display on women and the vote, together with Government. She witnessed first-hand the drudgery of comments from young people expressing their women and the lack of prospects for women shop disappointment that they are not able to vote at 16. I workers, and became an active union member,determined agree with them. I look forward to the Museum of to improve equality for women. I cite but two examples London’s “Votes for Women” exhibition, our own of women politicians down the years who have striven parliamentary “Voice and Vote” in Westminster Hall mightily for justice and democracy. There have so been and the Pankhurst Centre in Manchester’s year-long many and I am delighted that today we acknowledge celebration of the suffragette movement. and celebrate them. 1881 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1882

8.29 pm I will always remember reading as a teenager about Lord Shinkwin (Con): My Lords, I thank my noble someone I do not think has been mentioned so far: friend Lady Vere of Norbiton for moving the Motion Emily Davison, a suffragette who tragically lost—many marking such a monumental milestone in the life of say gave—her life when she ran in front of the King’s our democracy and, indeed, civilisation. Although it horse at the Epsom Derby 105 years ago in 1913. I ask was long overdue, it is hard to believe that a whole that while we reflect on her sacrifice for the right to century has passed since women over 30 were allowed vote, we also reflect on all those human beings diagnosed to vote in parliamentary elections for the first time, so as female and disabled before birth, whose equal right significant have the achievements been since then. to exist, to become women, to vote and to contribute Who could possibly have conceived that only 51 years to public life has been denied on account not of their after the 1928 Act which gave women the right to vote sex but of their disability.Their potential contribution— on the same terms as men, we would have our first perhaps one of them could have been our first disabled woman Prime Minister and now, 90 years later, our woman Prime Minister—has been lost for ever because second? What a tribute that simple fact is to women, the diagnosis of disability before birth denied them to have overcome such prejudice in the public service the most basic right of all, the equal right to exist. of our country and its people, and how much richer That is our tragic loss as a Parliament and as a people. we are as a society for that, in so many ways. Yet it is I close with this question for the Minister: would it worth reflecting that until relatively recently all of this not be wonderful to have as a clear goal the election of was a pipe dream. As the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, many more disabled women to show by their example, said, who would have thought it possible? as their non-disabled counterparts have done, that I will not repeat the key developments about which being born with a disability need not prevent a woman— we have already heard from my noble friend and other or, for that matter, a man—making a significant noble Lords. I am sure they fill us all both with pride contribution to public life in the service of our great in the progress that has been made to date and, as country? What better way to build on the progress of other noble Lords, such as the noble Baronesses, Lady the suffragettes and since, and thereby disprove enduring Gale and Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, have argued, discriminatory attitudes that so devalue disabled human an impatience for the further progress that still needs beings, male and female alike, before they are even born? to be made to ensure that women realise their potential in public life. I say that not just because I acknowledge 8.37 pm their right to realise their potential but because it is Baroness Barker (LD): My Lords, like many other something that society has a direct stake in—as my speakers in today’s debate, I took inspiration from a noble friend Lady Seccombe told us, it is society as a couple of women I know of. The first was my great- whole that benefits and has benefited so much over the grandmother, who got up before dawn to make sure past 100 years as women have contributed more and that she was the first woman who voted in her mining more to our parliamentary democracy and other fields. village in Scotland. The second was called Elizabeth Marking this centenary is of course a cause for Downie. In 1948, I understand, she proposed the celebration, and yet it is more than that. The remarkable resolution to the NALGO conference to get rid of the progress achieved by women in public life, particularly married women’s work bar. Within her family, she was when one considers for how long their exclusion had known as “Red Betty”. Some years later, when I been normalised, is also a cause for hope, not just for started to go out with her daughter, who is now my other women but for me personally and other disabled wife, I am not sure what alarmed her more: the fact people who still face discrimination, as I appreciate that her daughter had taken up with a woman or the some women do—although, I would suggest, to a fact that I was a Liberal Democrat. lesser extent, at least here in the UK. The noble Lord, The theme I want to explore this evening is hidden Lord Addington, mentioned disability. We are light history. I was inspired in part by going to a lecture at years behind the progress made by women. Disability the LSE library last week. It was about Sapphic discrimination is still embedded in our culture. Nowhere suffragettes. It is possible that they were not all straight. is it more normalised—more institutionalised—than It is a bit more difficult to assert that some of them in the way that a human being diagnosed before birth were lesbians, but there is a fairly reasonable case to be with a disability such as mine is devalued on account made that they could have been, and there is a very of their disability, to the extent that they are regarded good case to go back and take away some of the myths not just as worth less than a non-disabled human that have grown up around the suffragettes, particularly being but as worthless, disposable right up to birth, about the First World War being the reason legislative specifically for being diagnosed with a disability. change came around. There is a case to be made that So why do I, as a severely disabled person, draw these women were so well organised and so strategic in hope from this centenary? I do so because it reminds what they did that it became apparent to people such us of a simple but fundamentally important lesson as Lloyd George that they absolutely were responsible which the experience of the past 100 years teaches us, enough to vote. which is that, as my noble friend Lady Jenkin of But I want to talk about these hidden giants on Kennington and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of whose shoulders we are standing. The noble Baroness, The Shaws, highlighted, attitudes change; that how we Lady Kennedy, was absolutely right that it did not all look at each other and how we value each other can start in 1918: this was the culmination of something change so radically as to be revolutionary; and that that had been going on for a long time. Noble Lords progress which once seemed inconceivable can be achieved and noble Baronesses will have walked through and enduring cultural change can follow. Westminster Hall and seen that wonderful artwork 1883 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1884

[BARONESS BARKER] I was really pleased during the last election to take “New Dawn”, which marks John Stuart Mill’s part in the “register her to vote” campaign that was presentation of the first petition for women’s franchise. happening on Twitter, to get young women registered What your Lordships probably do not know is that he to vote. I hope the Government will support that and was heavily influenced by a wonderful woman called other initiatives. A terrifying statistic is that in 2015, 9 Harriet Taylor, whom he ultimately married. It was million women who could have voted did not. A she who campaigned away against the prison that number of noble Baronesses will, like me, have stood marriage was back in the Victorian era and against the on doorsteps over the years listening to young women harm that happened to women because they had to be saying, “I really don’t see why I should vote”. Fortunately, economically dependent on men and were treated as it has been a long time since I heard, “I don’t know no better than chattels. how we’re voting; my husband hasn’t told us”. It is Another person I doubt very many of your Lordships really important that we inspire young women to vote. will have heard about, but who ought to be an inspiration, I hope Peers will go out and actively support the work is Viscountess Rhondda, an amazing woman from of organisations such as the Patchwork Foundation, south Wales. She inherited her father’s business and, which seeks to demonstrate through role models to during her lifetime, was a director of more than young people from disadvantaged communities that 33 companies. Extraordinarily, she and her father they too have a place in public life and a valuable survived the sinking of the “Lusitania”. After inheriting contribution to make. his business, she went on to set up Time and Tide, the I have been inspired to go back and read history famous progressive women’s magazine. She campaigned and learn the lessons from wonderful women such as tirelessly for women to inherit their titles and sit in this Eleanor Roosevelt. She inspired me to look again at Chamber. She tried to argue this on the 1918 legislation, that very dry subject of human rights and to ensure which talks about women not being barred from any that in all that comes before our Parliament—especially public office, but she did not succeed. We heard the in everything that will come before us in the next few quote from Earl Ferrers earlier, about the admission months—we never lose sight of women’s rights and of women in the 1950s. My other favourite quote from human rights, and that we never assume that they have that same debate—the clincher that the men put forward been won and are safe. We have to continue to work to keep women out—was that to admit women would for them. We have to recruit and inspire new generations play havoc with the plumbing. In light of restoration of young men and women to come and join us in the and renewal, maybe they were right. Sadly,Lady Rhondda battle. died moments before that legislation came in. But she was a brilliant woman and, what is more, a lesbian. 8.46 pm There are all these people who have parts of their lives Baroness Byford (Con): My Lords, as one of the last and inspirations to what they do that have been hidden Back-Bench speakers speaking today, I thank my noble for a very long time. We quite often miss the diversity friend Lady Vere for introducing this important debate. of women’s experiences, inside and outside Parliament, We have heard some deeply moving speeches, reflecting in this fight. the contribution that women have made over the past There are so many women who have been truly 100 years. inspirational. This place is one of immense privilege, I will begin with Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, already but none beats being a colleague of Shirley Williams. mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. Not She was an absolute inspiration to me when I was a only was she the first female mayor in England but she kid and has worked tirelessly to inspire women to established a new hospital for women in London in come forward, to get their elbows out with the men in 1872 that was staffed only by women. It was an the room and to argue for equality. all-women organisation. She had struggled to qualify We have some considerable way to go. We are as a doctor because she was not accepted as she was extraordinarily lucky to be women who live in this not a man. Instead, she became a nursing student, country. I know, as a woman from my community, later going on to train in Paris and eventually gaining that I am extraordinarily lucky to be who I am at this her Society of Apothecaries certificate to become a point in time, when I can be open about being a part of doctor. my community and can bring that to discussions in Elizabeth had a very clear vision of what she wanted your Lordships’ House. We are not fully there in terms to achieve—as did Alice Hawkins from Leicester, whose of diversity yet. I hope that before too long, somewhere seven-foot statue was unveiled yesterday in the new in Parliament, we will have representatives of the trans market square. Alice left school at 13 and became a community. I hope they will be elected in another shoe machinist. She was actively involved in the Equity place. Would that not be a slap in the face to that Shoes trade union, fighting for the rights of women. woman on the Times who is giving that community a She attended the Women’s Social and Political Union real battering at the moment? They really do need rally in Hyde Park, which has already been mentioned, some support. and over the following seven years she was arrested I will end with a couple of points. Many have talked seven times and jailed five—the last time in Holloway, about statues today. I understand why your Lordships when they thought they had managed to persuade her want to do that and why it is important to increase the otherwise. visibility of women. But I am much more interested in My noble friend Lord Lexden spoke of Millicent our passing on a different legacy to the next generation, Fawcett and the work done by the Fawcett Society and and that we inspire them to be involved and to follow its members. Indeed, I believe that it is a combination us and tear down some of the walls in this building. of the approaches of both women, and their 1885 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1886 determination, that has led to the changes that we are Voluntary Service and continued with other organisations celebrating today. It is true that both Elizabeth and and charities. However, I pay great tribute to my noble Alice understood the inequalities of life at that time friend Lady Seccombe, who was at the helm when I and fought long and hard to change attitudes—although became involved with the Conservative Women’s I suspect that others will have come to the fore in very Organisation. My noble friend is a good example of different ways. encouraging others to achieve their goals, and looking One such woman was Rosa Parks, born in America around her this evening she must reflect on the many 105 years ago yesterday. She is probably among the hours she spent promoting and helping some of us top 100 women recognised worldwide. I do not know women who are lucky enough to sit in this House. In where she got the confidence to do as she did and the same way, my noble friend Lady Jenkin continues withstand the consequences, but she was the girl who, to help and inspire women to become parliamentary aged 15, refused to give up her seat and get off the bus. candidates. In her book, Standing up for Freedom, she said: I cannot let this occasion pass without mentioning “You must never be fearful about what you are doing when it the late Baroness Thatcher. Her total commitment, is right”. courage and belief inspired women of all parties, and Last week was the bicentenary of the Institute of some of none, to have confidence to take up the Civil Engineers. I wondered whether even one of those challenge and achieve their personal goal. founding fathers envisaged a future where the person Finally, we continue to have the experience of women directly responsible for the infrastructure of the 2012 who are leaders in their sectors. I think of Stella London Olympics would be a woman. Louise Hardy Rimington, Anita Roddick, Ellen MacArthur, Rosalind was just that woman. She masterminded the installation Franklin and Marie Stopes, to name but a few. Their of the roads, cables, telephone wires, broadband, water, contribution to society should be recognised. Ellen sewage disposal, heating and everything else that went MacArthur broke the record for the fastest solo with it to make it the mammoth achievement that it circumnavigation of the globe back in 2005. She was became. not just the best woman, but the best. Her achievements I have also chosen to talk about women in public helped squash prejudices about women’s inferiority in life outside Parliament—those working in business sport, and her trust helps young people with serious and others serving in their communities, both locally illnesses. and nationally. In the business world progress is being Listening to the contributions today, one cannot made—although it is slow, as others have indicated. In fail to be moved by the achievements over these past 2016 women occupied 35% of all managerial and 100 years—but, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy senior positions, but in 2015, a year earlier, 25% of of The Shaws, said, there is so much more to do. For directors of FTSE 100 companies were women, which me, equal opportunity is not equal unless everyone was an improvement, and I know that the target is receives the encouragement that make seizing the task now to increase this to 33% by 2020. In many small possible. and medium-sized companies, women are taking the challenge to start their own businesses and become 8.55 pm entrepreneurs in their own right. However, it is in Baroness Thornton (Lab): My Lords, may I say how bigger companies that women still struggle to reach much I welcome the debate in your Lordships’ House the top. today, and compliment the noble Baroness, Lady Vere, I have been intrigued by Sheryl Sandberg’s book, and my noble friend and sister Lady Gale on their Lean In, already referred to by my noble friend. Sheryl wonderful opening contributions? About the only partisan is chief operating officer at Facebook. She describes thing I intend to say is to the noble Baroness, Lady the inbuilt barriers to success. It is a fascinating read Finn, and the other women on the Conservative and and I recommend it. She acknowledges that women in Liberal Democrat Benches—and it is not the first time the developed world are better off than ever, but I have said this in this House. It is possible that the reflects that until women have supportive employers Labour Party at the next general election will achieve and colleagues, as well as partners who share family a 50:50 gender balance in its representation. Frankly, responsibilities, they do not really have that chance. if the women and sisters in your parties do not do I turn to the City of London. I must admit that I something other than the encouragement that the was surprised that the name of Lady Donaldson was noble Baroness, Lady Finn, talked about, it will be a not included in the very good list of firsts for women long time before we get gender balance overall in our in public life, as Lady Donaldson was the first woman Parliament. We in the Labour Party will not be able to Lord Mayor of the City of London back in 1983. She do it all on our own. was followed by Dame Fiona Woolf in 2013. They are It is said that history belongs to the victors, and the only two women to hold this post. The role of that is true of who won the vote for women, as in Lord Mayor is not simply one of great occasions and everything else. As noble Lords have said, the smaller grandeur but is much more about promoting UK voices get drowned out. The history of how women business abroad: during their year the Lord Mayor won the vote tends to belong to the famous, the better will probably visit 50 countries, giving more than educated, the most well-off families and leaders of the 900 speeches. suffragette movement. Like my noble friends Lady I have spoken about the contribution that women Corston and Lady Massey, the noble Baronesses, Lady make to local government and the many hours they Pinnock, and Lady Byford, and others, I want to give to their communities. All of us here started reflect on and pay tribute to the women who were less somewhere. I began my public life with the Women’s well known, less well off, and particularly those from 1887 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1888

[BARONESS THORNTON] movement. She was the Yorkshire organiser, known Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield and other places in for being disruptive in public meetings. In Pudsey, she Yorkshire. It is said in my family that one of the and fellow speakers were pelted with rotten oranges, women in our family was an active suffragette, and I eggs and peas. In 1908, as the noble Baroness, Lady would not be at all surprised. We are not known for Eaton, said, she was the one who organised the Shipley our modesty and our quietness in my family, but I Glen rally, attracting 100,000 people. Christabel have no proof. In a way, that makes my point. Pankhurst’s contemporary account says: I am indebted to Jill Liddington, senior research “For weeks past all Bradford has been talking about the fellow at Leeds University, to the women’s history Yorkshire Suffrage Sunday held in Shipley Glen on May 31st … The vast audience of orderly and attentive persons prevented any project, and the contemporary articles from Bradford’s effective disturbance, and at 5 o’clock a resolution calling upon Telegraph and Argus. The noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, the Government to enfranchise the women of this country … was is quite right. In November 1881, St George’s Hall in carried with practical unanimity. The Prime Minister expects us Bradford was the location of a huge meeting—3,000 to show a popular demand for votes for women. We offer to him strong—at which Bradford’sprovisional women’ssuffrage the demand of the people of Bradford, which has already spoken committee was established. It presented the first petition officially through its City Council when it adopted some months to Parliament demanding the vote in 1882. As my ago a resolution similar to the one carried at the great open-air meeting on the Suffrage Sunday”. noble friend Lady Kennedy put it, for almost 20 years, Several other militant actions caught my attention. women and the men supporting them—I think of Keir In 1910, when Winston Churchill came to a meeting at Hardie, for example—more or less politely asked for the same St George’s Hall, his visit ended in chaos, the vote. In October 1903, Emmeline Pankhurst gathered thanks to a handful of suffragettes, who secreted a group of women in Manchester to form a new themselves under the platform and leapt out, apparently, franchise campaign, the Women’s Social and Political Union, marking the end of what might be called the “thirsty, dishevelled and unwashed, but with hearts on fire for their cause”, Victorian campaign. The next 10 years were to be very as the Telegraph and Argus said. The women waited different, and sprinkled with the names of women until the hall filled up, then launched into their protest whose part in the struggle gave them an indelible and before being swiftly thrown out. honoured place in our history. In 1913, the Bradford suffragettes dug up and scorched We all know that in 1913 the suffragette martyr, the second and 12th green at Bradford Moor golf Emily Davison was killed beneath the King’s horse at club, replacing the flags with purple, green and white the Derby.Less famous was Dora Thewlis, a 16 year-old flags, and then went on to leave a trail of burning Yorkshire mill worker who, in 1913, despite her letter boxes across the district. Also in 1913, the reservoir impoverished upbringing, was moved to join a suffragette at Chellow Dene turned a rich shade of purple, having mission to break into the Houses of Parliament. She been discoloured by wool dyes. It was believed to be was thrown into prison and catapulted on to the front the work of suffragettes, but it was never proved. page of the Daily Mirror, which said, “Suffragettes Millions of gallons of water had to be drained. I am storm the House”. The reporters and paparazzi christened pleased to report that they had fun, too, turning up to her the “Baby Suffragette”. Indeed, in her clogs and see Ellen Terry at the Bradford Alhambra in full mill dress she secured vital publicity for the cause. suffragette costume and getting a standing ovation. I Again in February 1913, an elegant woman entered pay tribute to these brave women. Indeed, we stand on the Jewel House at the Tower of London. She removed their shoulders. an iron bar from her coat and threw it at the glass showcase containing insignia of the Order of Merit. 9.01 pm Wrapped around the bar was a statement: “This is my protest against the Government’s treachery to the Baroness Morris of Bolton (Con): With the leave of working women of Great Britain”. That was Leonora the House, I am grateful to the Front Benches for Cohen, a seamstress from Leeds. giving me just a moment before their closing speeches to apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt of It is only relatively recently that research has uncovered Solihull. During my contribution earlier, I took her to how Thewlis and other poor,often self-taught, Yorkshire task about remarks that I thought she had made women are among the forgotten heroines of the long regarding my right honourable friend the Prime Minister struggle for the vote. They include Lilian Lenton; and her so-called lack of support for other women, Edith Key, a mill worker born out of wedlock and and was rather incensed. I now realise that, of course, given awayby her mother; Lavena Saltonstall, a self-taught she was talking about our other Prime Minister. Of journalist; Elizabeth Pinnace, a rug weaver; and indeed, course, it is rather confusing when you have had two Leonora Cohen. Miss Newton—I do not know her women Prime Ministers—although, as the noble Baroness Christian name—was distributing leaflets when a mob will have heard from my noble friend Lady Byford, of boys picked her up, carried her round the town Margaret Thatcher was also a great supporter of centre and dumped her on the town hall steps. It must women. But I apologise to the noble Baroness for have been terrifying. The local paper reports that she taking her to task for comments that she had not made. did not let go of her leaflets. These women fought despite minimal schooling 9.02 pm and the risk of censure and ridicule. During this time Baroness Brinton (LD): My Lords, I declare my of the fight in Yorkshire, the organiser was none other interest as a director of the Joseph Rowntree Reform than the youngest and least well known Pankhurst—Adela Trust, which has given grants to, among others, WASPI, Pankhurst—who ended up in Australia in 1914, a Make Votes Matter, and other organisations that have casualty perhaps of the early splits in the suffragette been mentioned already during the debate, as well as 1889 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1890 to many other political reform campaigns. I congratulate these colours, because she was not allowed to become the noble Baronesses, Lady Williams and Lady Vere, a suffragette. She and many others would have been for introducing this debate. We have had the most utterly shunned by their families if they had done so. extraordinarily unified views about the success over Therefore, I wear these colours in her memory and the last 100 years, but also recognise that there are that of many women who wanted to do more. many problems. Lest noble Lords think that Mary felt stifled by I want to move back well over 100 years ago to John being a suffragist, I should tell them that she did not. Stuart Mill. My favourite quotation from him is: She had many friends who were suffragettes and she “The most important thing women have to do is to stir up the acted as a link between them. In her chapter on votes zeal of women themselves”. for women, she talks about how both the suffragettes He said that in a letter to Alexander Bain in 1869. A and the suffragists understood that both sides were lot of the rest of his political life was spent helping absolutely vital to winning the argument, as the noble women to be able to do that. Lord, Lord Desai, referred to earlier. The suffragists The woman who stirred up my own zeal was Baroness had the ears of politicians. They were perhaps too Stocks of Kensington and Chelsea, who started life as patient, especially in the face of Lord Asquith’sopposition. a Brinton and was referred to by the noble Lord, Lord I am glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, Norton. She had an extraordinary life. I did not know is not in her place when I refer to her great-grandfather, that—I knew a doughty old lady who came to lunch but it is true that Lord Asquith was the major block to on Sundays. She was principal of Westfield College, suffrage happening earlier. just around the corner from where I lived. My Other noble Lords referred to those who 100 years Conservative father, though not an MP at that time, ago led the way. As others have said, the failure of the won every argument at the dinner table, except when Liberal Government was moved on when David Lloyd Mary was there. She taught me, by my watching the George ousted Asquith and attitudes changed. The way in which she debated and engaged, that it was noble Baroness, Lady Barker, was right when she perfectly possible for women to do what they wanted. talked about the strategic positioning of both the I can remember her saying to me on one occasion in suffragists and the suffragettes. All the right conversations the late 1960s, when I was still just at secondary school had been had in the background. It is also interesting and so a bit behind the revolution that was going on that the suffragettes’militant action stopped the moment around me, “You know, you can do exactly what you the war started and all women put their shoulders to want to do. You just have to set your mind to it”. This whatever task they were asked to do to demonstrate woman did set her mind to it. She did an extraordinary that they were worthy of changing those men’s minds. range of things, as did many of the other women who Many noble Lords did not want women’s suffrage. were suffragists and suffragettes. They took that into On observing the debate in the Lords that night, Mary other parts of their lives. But her passion and deeds Stocks said: started early. In 1907, aged 16, she was on the Mud “The course of the debate made it clear that a majority of its March, one of the first big marches of the suffragist members regarded even a limited measure of women’s suffrage movements. I quote her voice at that time from her with distaste, amounting to horror. But in view of the movement autobiography, My Commonplace Book: of public opinion outside, as demonstrated by an overwhelming vote in the House of Commons, the House of Lords was not “I carried a banner in the 1907 ‘mud march’ at the head of prepared to flout democratically expressed public opinion. The which walked Mrs Fawcett, Lady Strachey, Lady Frances Balfour, anti-suffrage peers abstained from voting in sufficient numbers, and that indomitable liberty boy, Keir Hardie. As we moved off thus enabling the vital clause to go through. In fact the Upper through the arch of Hyde Park Corner we met a barrage of House was not in 1918 prepared to frustrate the clearly expressed ridicule from hostile male onlookers. ‘Go home and do the will of the people. Nor should it be so prepared”. washing,’ ‘Go home and mind the baby’ were the most frequent taunts flung at us. As we proceeded along Piccadilly it was That has relevance to the debates that we are observed by some of the marchers that the balcony of the Ladies’ undertaking at the moment on the European Union Lyceum Club was crowded with members looking down from (Withdrawal) Bill and I have been encouraged by their safe vantage. Some of the marchers looked up and shouted: listening to the debate we had last week. Despite the ‘Come down and join us.’ I do not know whether any of them did. fact that this House recognised that it has the opportunity It was a great adventure for a sixteen-year-old; and on returning and right—nay, the duty—to challenge and scrutinise, to school on the following Monday I was uncertain how my public exploit would be regarded by authority. I need not have we also recognised that there is a will elsewhere. It worried. All the mistresses were suffragists, as indeed were all does not stop any noble Lords whose political views salary-earning professional women”. are that they want to remain continuing to fight for She went on in this autobiography to include some that, but I have not heard that view changed. I am of the pictures from her journal at the time. There is a encouraged, though, that even the men who opposed glorious cartoon dated 1913 of three versions of herself. suffrage were prepared to abstain to allow the voice of The first is of a glorious young Edwardian lady in the the people to go through. full panoply, hat and social get-up of the upper middle The quote from the noble Lord, Lord Sherbourne, class in London. Underneath, it says, “What Mary’s from 50 years later was also interesting. Mary Stocks mother would like Mary to wear”. The next picture is became a Peer in the mid-1960s. She was somewhat of a young utilitarian girl about town—at this point scathing about coming into the House but she also she was an undergraduate at the LSE—and underneath loved it. She reckoned that she was brought in as a it says, “What Mary’s mother thinks Mary wants to broadcaster. For many years, she was the token woman wear”. But the next picture is the most poignant. It is on “Any Questions”, “The Brains Trust”, and the of a woman prisoner and underneath it says, “What predecessors of “Prayer for the Day” and “Thought Mary would really like to wear”. That is why I wear for the Day”. She was also an excellent interviewer. 1891 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1892

[BARONESS BRINTON] will take off as soon as organisations start asking The interview to which the noble Lord, Lord Norton, young men what they are going to be doing when their referred is really engaging and the parliamentary archives baby is born. still have it. Mary Stocks, who was not a Conservative, The other fun person who I just wanted to raise interviewed Nancy Astor,who was definitely not Labour. briefly in the last couple of minutes—I think she has If any noble Lord gets the chance to see it, it is been mentioned in passing—is Marie Stopes. It is not fascinating; it certainly was on Parliament TV some fashionable to recognise her as a heroine but she was. I time ago. think her true recognition came in the 1960s, when her There have been other notable women in the Lords. contribution was finally recognised for what it was. I am reminded of Nancy Seear, the first Liberal leader Mary Stocks wrote—I do not have enough time to in this House, who was an indomitable woman. If you quote her—that Marie Stopes did not just want ever met her, you would never forget it. Shirley Williams contraception, she clearly changed women’s views about was my mentor; many other women in my party and sex. One woman, speaking to Marie Stopes, said: the Labour Party had her support. She guided me for “He’s a good husband, he only troubles me once a week”. 10 years when I was standing for Parliament and In the 1920s, that was the common view. We talk trying to decide what to do, and when I came into your about the outside and external achievements, but we Lordships’ House. I also note some of my current must remember that the suffragists and suffragettes heroes. My noble friend Lady Thornhill was the first who went on to run birth control clinics also changed woman elected mayor in this country and is about to the lives of women around us—the entire world. stand down after 16 years’ service in Watford. My noble friend Lady Benjamin is a role model, and not I must correct the view from some noble Lords on just in broadcasting. Since she took her place in your the Labour Benches that the Liberal Democrats have Lordships’ House she has become an absolute advocate not introduced all-women shortlists. We have. Some for the safety of children and we listen to her with 58% of our target seats in 2015 and just over 50% in great care and attention. I was amused by her stories 2017 had women in them. Unfortunately, when you about the BBC. She and I worked together on “Play lose seats, the chance of moving forward in other areas School” when I was a floor manager. At the same time is somewhat difficult. We remain committed to that as she was being put under pressure for expecting her for exactly the same reasons as the Labour Party, first child, I got engaged. I was hauled in to see the because we know that it will improve diversity in other personnel officer who asked, “So when are you leaving ways. It will improve the representation of disabled, us?”, because married women did not work. I had a BME and LGBT women in Parliament. colleague who did work after she got married. She In conclusion, we have talked a lot this evening came back from maternity leave, having made about deeds, not words. I ask every one of your arrangements for her very small baby. The first thing Lordships to make your own deeds about what you the floor management team did was send her to Thailand will take out of this debate today. Write yourself a for six months to work on “Tenko”. She resigned. postcard with your top three actions, give it to your An experience of my own of being a woman in that Whips Office and ask them to post it back to you in field was filming in a men’s club. I was the only woman three months’ time to see what you have done. I will on the team; the actors in the show and the other tell your Lordships why.I spoke about my granddaughters; people there were all men. I was urinated on as I was they will be two this summer. At the current, glacial, trying to cue actors in the corner. My story is personal rate of change they will be in their ninth decade before to me and shaped the way I view things, but every we have parity in the House of Commons. That is not other woman in this House has experienced similar good enough. things. 9.17 pm Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws: Me too. Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab): My Lords, it is a Baroness Brinton: I am glad that there are others privilege to be able to participate in this historic debate who are prepared to affirm it. and an honour to close on behalf of the Labour Party, On business, I am delighted that the noble Baroness, which has done much over more than 100 years to Lady Finn, talked about the need for deeds not words. promote and advance the cause of women’s rights in She referred to the work of the coalition Government, many areas. and I particularly want to highlight the work of my I pay tribute to the noble Baronesses opposite for honourable friend Jo Swinson, who steered through achieving this debate—it is of course entirely appropriate parental leave. This is important, and it is not just that they should—and to all those people, as well as about maternity leave. My son and daughter-in-law organisations, who are recognising the significance of have two very small, premature babies. He works for 100 years of votes for women by organising or taking L’Oreal, to which he moved just as the babies were part in such a wide range of events, some of which born. He was told that there were no meetings after were mentioned by my noble friend Lady Massey. Our 4.30 pm because all young parents should have the Parliament is well to the fore with its Vote 100 programme chance to be at home to put their babies to bed. With of events, and there are special exhibitions at the examples like that, we have the pipeline that other People’s History Museum in Manchester and at the noble Lords have been talking about. The responsibility Museum of London, where the shadow Cabinet will for helping women move on entails an understanding meet tomorrow to mark the centenary. Noble Lords that all parents, regardless of their gender, have a role may also be aware of Beyond the Ballot, a free online in helping to bring up their children. Parental leave course which begins today, tracing women’s rights and 1893 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1894 suffrage from 1866 to the present. It has been produced do so in 1958. That was when women were first by the Royal Holloway University of London and the admitted under the Life Peerages Act and, as many Open University’sFutureLearn digital education platform, noble Lords have pointed out, a total of only 294 women and I highly recommend it. Peers have been created since—that is less than five a From this distance it seems barely credible that in year. the early years of the 20th century women felt driven In the debate, noble Lords from all sides have to acts of violence simply to achieve the basic human welcomed the all-women shortlists introduced by the right of casting their vote for the Government that Labour Party. I think that generally there has been a would pass laws affecting their everyday lives. Violence great deal of agreement on that across the House. I can never be condoned, but in the circumstances I can would say that all-women shortlists are a means to an understand why it was resorted to as a tactic. Let us end, not an end in themselves, and I saw them operate not forget that the violence was by no means one way. effectively in the Scottish Parliament. So perhaps, as The shameful events of Black Friday in 1910, when my noble friend Lady Kennedy said in her typically women campaigners were brutally assaulted by police forthright contribution, the time has come to consider and then imprisoned, where they were force-fed—an quotas to lift the number of women Peers to 50%. act, it should be said, that today we call torture—is Such a move could not be regarded in any way as not mentioned often enough when the suffragettes are ground-breaking in your Lordships’ House. After all, recalled. for the first 600 years of its existence it operated a Noble Lords mentioned many of the most prominent quota—of 100%. Of course, as many noble Lords women whose campaigning culminated in the 1918 have said, 100 years ago it was not just in terms of the Act. I planned to mention two, but my noble friend right to vote that women were held back. In many Lord Davies has left me with nothing to add to his spheres of life—not least in terms of improving excellent tribute to the remarkable Annie Kenney, one themselves—quite artificial barriers were placed in of many working-class women who fought for the their way. right to vote. My noble friend Lady Thornton reeled off an impressive list of other working-class women, This year also marks the 150th anniversary of women together with some beguiling and very interesting being admitted to higher education. That was at the anecdotes. University of London and they were able to sit only for “certificates of proficiency”rather than being awarded I thought I would be the only person to mention degrees. It was a further 10 years before that threshold Margaret Mackworth, the 2nd Viscountess Rhondda— was crossed, although that still left women far apart but the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, stole my thunder. from men, and it was not until the 1919 Act to which I However, I will say one or two things about her, referred a few moments ago that women were allowed because she seems to have been a remarkable woman to enter the professions. in many ways. She was involved in militant action with the Pankhursts—activities which saw her thrown into In the years since, opportunities for girls and women jail, and she was released only after going on hunger have advanced considerably, but young women continue strike. to experience gender stereotypes which prevent them Neither the 1918 Act nor the one that followed it a reaching their full potential, as the noble Baroness, year later satisfied Margaret Mackworth. The Sex Lady Bertin, said. It runs a bit further than Peppa Pig; Disqualification (Removal) Act 1919 ended most of none the less, those are influential children’s television the existing common law restrictions on women, with programmes, as the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, marriage no longer legally considered a bar to the will know. Only one in three girls who take maths and ability to work in the professions. But Mackworth science at GCSE progresses to take a STEM subject at realised that much more remained to be done, and A-level or equivalent, compared to eight out of 10 boys. you can understand why when I quote from the Times of Many schools still restrict the educational achievement 1920. I dare say that the Times regarded itself then, as of girls through gendered subjects at school and in it does now, as the newspaper of record, but it issued apprenticeships. The Royal Society reported two months grave warnings about the dangers of extending voting ago that only 20% of GCSE uptake in computer rights to women under 30. Mature females might science in England is by girls; at A-level the figure is finally be allowed to engage with politics but the, 9%. That is an essential tool for our economic future, “scantily clad, jazzing flapper to whom a dance, a new hat or a yet so many females are excluded. man with a car is of more importance than the fate of nations”, Even when they do well in attainment in education, must never be entrusted with a vote. So in 1921 it does not necessarily transfer to the workplace. There Margaret Mackworth founded the Six Point Group, a is a major shortfall in the number of women in senior feminist campaign group focusing on equality between positions, while, as we know only too well, gender-specific men and women and the rights of the child. It was roles at work and the glass ceiling persist widely. instrumental in winning support for the change to all According to the House of Commons Library, in women getting the vote in 1928. 2016-17 54% of apprenticeship starts were by women After her father’s death, as the noble Baroness, and 46% by men, and more women than men have Lady Barker, mentioned, Lady Rhondda tried to take started apprenticeships each year since 2010. But the his seat in your Lordships’ House, citing the 1919 Act, Fawcett Society analysis of BEIS data on apprenticeship which, in theory, allowed women to exercise “any starts and achievements reveals that men continue to public office”. The Committee of Privileges voted dominate those with the best earnings potential. In against her plea and she never did enter this Chamber, 2014-15 nearly 17,000 men started engineering although she very nearly lived to see the first women apprenticeships, while only 600 women did so. 1895 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1896

[LORD WATSON OF INVERGOWRIE] House of Commons, which simply is not good enough. The divided labour market is a key cause of the Only in 2016 was a landmark of sorts reached, when major issue in the working environment—the gender the total number of women MPs ever elected reached pay gap. This is a national scandal, and we knew that 455—the same as the number of men then sitting as long before the BBC forced it into the spotlight. I have MPs. Were the suffragettes and suffragists able to had an interest in this issue for a considerable time. express an opinion on events since 1918, I suspect they Indeed, my university thesis in 1974 was on the would be disappointed that the advances they achieved implementation of the Labour Government’s Equal have not spurred more extensive gains bringing greater Pay Act. Of course, although that Act got on to the equality to the lives of women—and, as many noble statute book in 1970, there was a five-year lead-in Lords have said, a greater presence of women in senior period for employers to make the changes necessary to posts in the law, business and the media, to name but accommodate the legislation. That was always an three sectors. optimistic aim but, almost 50 years later, more than a My noble friend Lady Kennedy was undoubtedly quarter of the gender pay gap remains to be filled. right when she said that the game can no longer be In 1975, women earned 36% less than median male played by men’s rules. We men must make it our duty, hourly earnings. The latest available figure issued in too, to change attitudes. As the noble Lord, Lord April last year in the Office for National Statistics Addington, said, there must be a culture change. It is Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings is 9.1%. That surely the collective duty of all of us, men and women, represents the comparison between full-time workers to ensure that the progress achieved thus far is extended and excludes overtime earnings, but of course more until its natural and only acceptable conclusion of men than women work overtime and more women true equality is solidly embedded in all aspects of life. than men work part time, so the 9.1% figure gives a distorted view of the gap in actual take-home pay between men and women. Taking all employees into 9.28 pm account, the gender pay gap in 2017 was 18.4%. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams That brings me to the BBC. Various noble Lords, of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, I begin by thanking all not least my noble friend Lady Crawley and the noble noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. It has Lord, Lord Sherbourne, highlighted the recent events. been not only very good humoured but humorous, I am one of the organisation’s biggest supporters and and so varied in the number of absolutely fascinating have defended it often from attacks by Governments and informative stories that we have heard. of left and right, as well as by the right-wing tabloids. I am very proud of the history that has allowed me But I have to say—and I would do so were the noble the opportunity to stand here and speak. The campaign Lord, Lord Hall, in his place today—that the BBC has for women’s franchise started a chain of events that got it very wrong on pay. As an organisation it has did not stop at the vote and enabled women to take been slow, even reluctant, to take meaningful action their seats in this House. Before I respond to the for far too long. Who could have listened to the brave particular points raised today,I want first to acknowledge and hugely impressive testimony of Carrie Gracie to those who made it possible for me to be here, some of MPs last week without experiencing anger? That anger whom are in the Chamber today. My noble friends was not assuaged by the frankly risible conclusions of Lady Morris of Bolton and Lady Jenkin, and in the the PWC report on pay that there was, other place the right honourable Lady the Prime Minister, “no evidence of systemic gender discrimination”. and David Cameron before her, have all been pivotal Really? That message would have been no more credible in my journey here today. had it been tattooed on the body of a pig flying past In a wider sense, I have heard so much about the Broadcasting House. history of brilliant women that I did not know before Of course, we know what we know only because the and I want to go home and read about them all. To BBC is publicly funded and has a duty of transparency. name a few, Jessie Stephen sounds fascinating and What about private companies in the media, as well as feisty, as does my noble friend Lady Jenkin’s granny other sectors of employment? Anybody who does not and my noble friend Lady Seccombe’s mother, and believe that systemic gender discrimination in pay who could forget Annie Kenney? Some of the women exists widely needs to get out more, probably from the came from quite ordinary circumstances and went on comfort of their men-only club. to do extraordinary things. Those are the most powerful The Labour Party is proud to have a gender-balanced messages that we can deliver in this centenary year. shadow Cabinet and to have more women MPs than We must never forget that those women made all other parties put together, but we acknowledge that remarkable sacrifices so that the sight of women here there is no room for complacency. We have yet to see would be unremarkable. They faced criticism, abuse the first female Labour Party leader elected at national and defamation—one noble Lord told a story about level, although there is at least the fine example of oranges with razor blades in them. Their opponents Labour in your Lordships’ House, where we now have rebuked them for stepping outside of their domestic our fifth woman leader. environment. Little did those opponents know that it Women’s right to vote was achieved by determined was in just those spaces from which women ran their and committed groups of politically motivated women households and raised their children that they also who sacrificed much for their struggle. A record built their campaigns. It was in a Manchester parlour 208 women were elected to Parliament last year. But in 1903 that Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters 100 years after the law was changed to allow women to established the Women’s Social and Political Union. become MPs, they still account for just 32% of the The noble Lord, Lord Desai, might like to know that 1897 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1898 there is a small room in Manchester underneath the apprenticeships to challenge the notion that there are Women’s Aid building where you can find the Pankhurst men’s jobs and women’s jobs. We want women to have Centre. We also have the People’s History Museum in equal access to higher-paying sectors and careers. We Manchester, which tells much about women’s suffrage. are investing £5 million in returners schemes so that As so many noble Lords said today, it took many people who take time out for caring responsibilities decades—you could say hundreds of years—of meetings, can return to work in jobs that match their skills and petitions and debate to achieve women’s suffrage, led experience. We are also determined to address the ably by Millicent Fawcett and the National Union of gender pay gap through new regulations on businesses Women’s Suffrage Societies, which relied on the with more than 250 employees to report the differences volunteering and tireless campaigning of women up in median earnings between women and men. The and down the UK. noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, talked about that. These actions are helping to level the playing I have also listened to the challenges that women field so that women are free to make choices about continue to face to enter Parliament, have a fulfilling their lives and their aspirations, including politics, career and survive the daily aggressions and harassment while ensuring their financial security. that can restrict women’s freedom and right to safety. As my noble friend Lady Jenkin said, the UK has The noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady made great progress, but there is so much more to do. Donaghy, talked about the WASPI ladies. We should All young women should be able to see Parliament as recognise the skills, talents and experience that older a place that they actively want to come to and make a women bring to the workforce by equalising the state real difference to people’s lives. pension age and eliminating gender inequalities in To answer a point raised by my noble friend Lady social security.However, the Government did introduce Eaton, we are commissioning evidence of what works a concession that is worth £1.1 billion which means from evaluated programmes in the UK and internationally. that no one should be made to work more than an We know that there are many barriers to participation, additional 18 months as compared with the previous but it is vital to understand what is effective and timetable to retire as a result of the change in the state whether it is effective for only some women. Our aim is pension age. to offer political parties a range of options that they My noble friend Lord Sherbourne and the noble can draw on and adopt depending on their own needs. Lord, Lord Watson, talked about the BBC in relation Many noble Lords talked about legislating to to its pay issues which have been so prominent in the commence Section 106 of the Equality Act. Wewelcome press recently. We welcome the publication of the all actions by political parties to demonstrate their BBC’s review into on-air pay and the plans to establish commitment to diversity, but we do not believe that a new transparent pay policy for presenters and journalists. further legislation and regulation is the best way forward. That is long overdue. The BBC must ensure that its We have heard about what political parties are doing, pay arrangements are rooted in fairness and equality, and we believe that they are responsible for their and we expect it to act quickly to resolve any outstanding candidate selection and should lead the way in improving issues. It remains a matter for the Equality and Human the representation of women. Rights Commission to consider whether to investigate pay at the BBC as the regulatory body for enforcing When Nancy Astor took her seat in the other place equal pay. We understand that the EHRC has already in 1919, she represented the women who protested, approached the BBC following the concerns raised by picketed, fought and died in a long campaign to be Carrie Gracie, the former China editor. heard. Once elected, she received up to 2,000 letters a week from women all over the UK who trusted her to I have also heard very clearly how women are held take their concerns seriously. Too often, many belittle back by outdated beliefs that they are unsuited to the inequalities that continue to affect women and taking on positions of authority. I am proud that girls as “women’s issues” instead of society’s issues. enough people challenge those norms so that we now These injustices should continue to shock and prompt have our second female Prime Minister, the first of action. course being Mrs Thatcher, but recent events and revelations remind us that we still have a long way We have heard particularly about the barriers that to go. women face to enter Parliament. Some of these are about the practicalities of life working in Westminster— The noble Baroness, Lady Gale, asked about the working between multiple locations, balancing caring closure of the Women’s National Commission. I had responsibilities with long working days or ensuring not heard of the Women’s National Commission and financial stability while pursuing election. I would like am pleased to be educated about it. The Government to commend Parliament, particularly the work of the Equalities Office continues to work closely with the Commons Reference Group on Representation and women’s sector following the move to bring the work Inclusion, for its work to make this a more family-friendly of the Women’s National Commission into government. working environment, through practical solutions such In preparing the UK’s eighth periodic report to the as childcare facilities and changes to the parliamentary CEDAW committee, the Government Equalities Office schedule. conducted a targeted engagement exercise with a cross- The Government are also acting to ensure that section of women’s organisations and we intend to women can play an equal part in the economy by build on that. giving them valuable skills and opportunities, encouraging My noble friend Lady Hodgson made the point girls into STEM subjects, introducing coding lessons that no women have been appointed to the United from the age of seven, and delivering high-quality Nations.A range of factors are explored when considering 1899 Role of Women in Public Life[LORDS] Role of Women in Public Life 1900

[BARONESS WILLIAMS OF TRAFFORD] women’s suffrage. Through it we aim to celebrate, the nomination of a candidate for an election to a educate and encourage more women to participate so body such as the CEDAW committee, and a decision that they have an equal voice. With the fund, we have on whether to nominate a UK candidate for the next developed an exciting national programme that includes CEDAW committee membership will be made by education projects, a £1.5 million grant scheme for 7 March. local communities and organisations that are supporting The Prime Minister has updated the Ministerial women’s representation, and the commemoration of Code to state that, as well as maintaining the highest two important figures of the suffrage movement so standards of personal conduct, Ministers must, that a new generation can be inspired by their story. I “be professional … and treat all those with whom they come into have had several suggestions for several statues in contact with consideration and respect”. several parts of the country. It will keep the DDCMS This Parliament often sets an example to the world busy for quite some time to come. with ground-breaking legislation and open debate on The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, made a point the pressing issues of the day, but clearly it also reflects about lowering the voting age. We set out a manifesto the obstacles facing all of society. The Government commitment to maintain the voting age at 18. We acknowledge that a gender-balanced Parliament is have every intention of doing so. It is widely long overdue and we share the aspirations of those on recognised as the age at which one becomes an adult. all sides to make it happen. Parliament should be a Full citizenship rights, from drinking, to betting, to place any person can aspire to work in. voting, should be gained at adulthood. It is important My noble friend Lady Eaton talked about local that children and young people feel engaged in the councils. Women make up 33% of local councillors in decision-making process. We do this in many different England, but only 17% of council leaders. I recall ways, from the Youth Parliament to gaining the views that when I became a council leader I was the only female of children and young people on specific areas of leader in Greater Manchester—in fact, the only Tory legislation. leader in Greater Manchester. That is an interesting We are funding the statue of Millicent Fawcett in form of 100% representation. Government and other Parliament Square, the first woman to be honoured in administrations should reflect the constituencies they this way. Manchester, as one of seven centenary cities serve and gender parity is long overdue at all levels and towns in England with a strong suffrage history, is of governance. In December, the Department for receiving a portion of £1.2 million for projects that Communities and Local Government held a round extend the legacy of their story. As someone who has table with local government representatives, women’s spent all my adult life there, I am delighted that organisations and others to identify barriers to women Manchester is using funds to honour the work and life and to understand what support the Government can of Emmeline Pankhurst with a statue. The noble provide. Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, requested a statue of The noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, who I cannot Mary Wollstonecraft; she was mentioned by several believe is 69 years of age—I have some major repair noble Lords. I know there are lots of calls for statues work to do to myself—talked about greater discrimination and campaigns such as Mary on the Green are actively against women of colour. I am proud, as I am sure she campaigning and fundraising for memorials to mark is, to be part of the most diverse Parliament in history, the achievements of British women. but we welcome all moves by political parties to remove barriers that limit anybody’s ability to participate in it. The presence of women in Parliament has, without The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, and my noble friend question, altered social policy and legislation, and Lord Shinkwin made the same points regarding having focused Parliament’s attention on gender equality.What more trans and LGBT candidates, and indeed elected is more, I believe we can benefit only from a Parliament, and appointed representatives in Parliament. My noble from business and from laws that represent the beliefs friend Lord Shinkwin talked about having not only and make-up of the UK in its entirety. the first female Prime Minister, but maybe the first Before I conclude, I pay tribute to the Fawcett female disabled Prime Minister. That time may well Society, to Helen Pankhurst and her family, and to the come. countless organisations that continue to advocate for As I have said, we do not think that legislation and women in the UK and internationally and press for an regulation is the way to make this happen. We believe end to inequality. I encourage noble Lords to take part that political parties have the primary responsibility in this year’s celebrations to mark the suffrage centenary for doing this. Different parties take different approaches. and to celebrate the many women who have made The histories of political parties also mean that some their mark on Parliament and this House. The of their internal structures differ enormously.Therefore, Representation of the People Act will be on display in there is no one-size-fits-all solution. As time goes on, Central Lobby from tomorrow so that any noble Lords the public will dictate that both the elected and unelected who would like to see it can do so. Houses will look far more representative. That is why I shall end on someone I have not mentioned but the Government Equalities Office is commissioning who was very influential on me: Mrs Thatcher. I know the review that I talked about. Its aim is to provide she commands a wide range of views. She became political parties with a range of possible solutions that Prime Minister when I was 11 years old and showed they might want to draw on. what women could achieve. Women might not agree There is other positive activity happening to move with her, people might not agree with her, but everyone the debate forward. In March 2017, the Chancellor was always clear about Margaret Thatcher; she knew announced a £5 million fund to mark the centenary of exactly what she wanted and she went out and got it in 1901 Role of Women in Public Life[5 FEBRUARY 2018] Role of Women in Public Life 1902 what was a very male world at the time. No, she did Mrs Thatcher given by my noble friend Lady Hodgson: not promote many women to her Cabinet because “If you want something said, ask a man; if you want there were not many women in Parliament in those something done, ask a woman”. days, in 1979, but she paved the way for women to Motion agreed. know that they could get there—it was possible. I shall end with a quotation from House adjourned at 9.48 pm.