DeMane Davis Mon, 1/25 3:27PM 1:00:13
SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, life, production, film, script, sundance, person, talk, happening, ava, find, director, important, day, joy, direct, thought, business, navigate, feel
SPEAKERS
DeMane Davis, Carolina Groppa
Carolina Groppa 00:00
INTRO: Hey everyone and Happy New Year! As you may have seen on social media, Life with Caca got a bit of a makeover. As the show enters sophomore year, it was time for a change. So going forward, the show will be called Angle on Producers. It's still me and yes, we are still talking about all the caca. I've also started a monthly newsletter that will be an extension of the show. It will inform and inspire hopefully in equal parts. I'll add a link in the show notes so please sign up and stay in touch. Speaking of I would love to hear from you what producers Do you want to hear from hit me up? I am so excited to kick off this new year this new season of the show with my first episode alongside Women in Film. I am proud to be a member of an organization that focuses on supporting and advancing women filmmakers. They invited me to host an event this past weekend that was open to all and it was an absolute delight to chat with and learn from DeMane Davis. She wears many hats, but we focused on her producing and directing ones for this conversation. Her credits include Ava DuVernay is Queen Sugar on own now in its fifth season, the highly anticipated series Clarice that tells the personal story of FBI agent Clarice Sterling as she returned to the field in 1993. One year after the events of The Silence of the Lambs. She also produced and directed the four part Emmy nominated Netflix limited series self made inspired by the life of madam CJ Walker, starring Octavia Spencer, highly recommended if you have not checked it out, I left this hour filled with joy as her positive energy is absolutely infectious. She vibrates on a wavelength of gratitude and possibility. She believes in manifestation. And I for one can't wait for the day that I manifest getting to work with her. So let's tune in and hear from DeMane.
DeMane Davis Page 1 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Carolina Groppa 01:56
This is so exciting. I for those of you who are watching and listening, welcome to the show. I am so excited. I normally record these in a little vacuum just me and the guests, and then release them. So this is the first time I'm doing a live on air kicking off 2021 with a bang with Miss DeMane Davis and I'm so excited. And in doing all my research on you. I just was like should I even be talking to her like she's done? Like she's, she's like the real deal. I should be like, like, hire me. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I just I think it's so incredible when I bump into someone who I haven't personally had not really been too familiar with your career. And then when Ebony and women and film are like oh DeMane Davis, that's the girl. That's what we got to talk to. I was just blown away by how much you've done, and all the hats that you wear as very well proclaimed on your website. So I always like to start by kind of taking it to the beginning a little bit and how you discovered this business. And that just those early days soon take us there.
D DeMane Davis 03:01 Well, first, thanks so much for having me. And, and and I really appreciate it and don't look at the bags under my eyes from working. I want to begin by extending my condolences to anyone who has lost someone due to COVID. I feel like not our administration has not done that. And so I like to do that. And I would also like to express my sincere gratitude for our essential workers, doctors, nurses, the cleaning staffs, and all the hospitals, transit workers, grocery store clerks for doing what they do, so that we can do what we do. So thank you. And thanks, everybody, for making time to be here today. I really appreciate and I also want to congratulate you on Sylvie's Love. What a beautiful, beautiful film and I have a bunch of questions for you after or just during I'm just gonna drop them.
Carolina Groppa 04:03
Please do. It's a conversation
D DeMane Davis 04:06 Yeah, and I Miss Virginia. I watched Miss Virginia this morning. I love that.
Carolina Groppa 04:10
I love that.
DeMane Davis Page 2 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D DeMane Davis 04:12 So my start was really simple.Ava DuVernay slipped into my DMs and that's why I'm here. That's why I have the honor to do what I do. I'm really really grateful to get to do it every day. My background is writer I've always been a writer I have had a journal since I was 12 years old. I have probably I'm gonna say 75 of these at home in different shapes or forms not really on script station yet everybody loves script station. I feel like people are getting like like secret percentages Scriptation. Do you use scriptation?
Carolina Groppa 04:52
It's the first time I'm hearing about it.
D DeMane Davis 04:56 It allows you to load your script into your iPad. It only works with Apple products. That's another thing, I'm like, okay. And when the new versions of the scripts come out, as they always do, and television and film, it just transfers your notes automatically. Hmm. See you like it, you want it
Carolina Groppa 05:21
I thought it was gonna be something different. I thought it was gonna be some magical software where it took all of your ideas and thoughts and notes as a writer, and just put them all in one place because I i've always I'm also like a storyteller. And I think in movies like I was growing up before I knew what movies were, I would imagine myself like a third you know, bird's eye view camera was like following me and I'm like, okay, she gets out of the car, she closes the door, she walks she knocks this to somebody answered like, I was always like doing that in my head. So I've always dabbled in writing stuff. So but that's been my struggle is I have just everywhere I have like physical writing and notes. And it's just everywhere. So I was like, Is there one? Is there a way to just like, condense all of this, funnel it into one place? And then yeah, if this service, then also wrote the script. For me. It's gonna be
D DeMane Davis 06:10 That sounds awesome!
DeMane Davis Page 3 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Carolina Groppa 06:11
So, being a writer, you could have gotten many directions. At what point, were you aware that there are these people in the television, in the movie screen that do this for a living. They're not just showing up in real time and saying words like there are writers who write those words. There are people who put this together. Do you remember being aware of that?
D DeMane Davis 06:30 I don't know, when I became aware of that. I mean, I know for me, I only know that. So I entered the Sundance labs, episodic episodic labs, I didn't get in. And they'd say, like, why do you want to have your own television series. And I'm grateful to that, even though I didn't get him because it allowed me to realize that when I was little, I used to watch Mannix and Mannix was a private detective. And he had a black Secretary named Peggy. Gail Fisher, rest in peace Gail Fisher. And I was like, oh, okay, what's she doing? She's typing, she's falling over, then she got him lunch, I can do that. So that's how I became a secretary in the media department. And I worked my way up to be a copywriter. So for me, I'm like, I want to show other people doing other things. So that, you know, if there's another version of me out there, they can see it and be like, Oh, I think that I want to do that. As far as writing I didn't really, I mean, writing for me is always it's second nature. And I'm grateful to have it because I feel like if you write, you can teach yourself to do anything else you can, you know, so I was like, Oh, I write all the time in my journal. So yeah, I could write a script. You know, I could, you know, I could be a grant writer, you know, I could write a manual, I could do anything. And so that's what I love about writing. And I tell anyone who writes, you can teach yourself how to how to do anything. So yeah, yeah, but I didn't really, I didn't really give it a thought until, you know, I think, until I got Ava got in touch with me, we kept in touch for about a year. You know, I tried to, you know, wanted to email her all the time, but I was like, no, let me you know, not be that person. And then Paul Laurence called and invited me to direct on Queen Sugar.
Carolina Groppa 08:21
How many years ago was that when Ava slid in your DM?
D DeMane Davis 08:26 That was 2016.
DeMane Davis Page 4 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Carolina Groppa 08:29
Okay, so four years ago. And in those four years, like you, you've mentioned that her sliding into your dm and that opportunity really being a pivot for you and your career. So how has have these past four years gone for you? Is it what you imagined?
D DeMane Davis 08:45 Um, yeah, it's been, I would say, I don't really know what I imagined. But it's definitely exceeded that. I was like, Yeah, no, this is what I want to do. This is what I'm good at. This is like, I get this. I like it a lot. Okay, we're doing it again. In two weeks from the last time I did it. All right. Let's go.
Carolina Groppa 09:06
When you say "this" please specify since you wear so many hats.
D DeMane Davis 09:12 Thank you. That's that's a great question. I mean, directing and then being able asked me to be producing director on third season Queen Sugar, which was great for me, because all I wanted to do is just go back, you know, yeah, I consider them like my first family. Really, you know, not my birth family, but like my first family. And that's, that's such a great, incredible encouraging situation, because she only hires first time female directors, first time television directors. Yeah. So everybody, their cast and crew know that and they're dedicated to helping you make a beautiful episode. And so it's the best so all I do, my whole life is like that's what I try to recreate on every set that I'm on, whether I'm a director or I'm a producing director. And will
Carolina Groppa 10:00
Will you define for us what a producing director is? How is that different from a director or your more traditional producer? showrunner?
D DeMane Davis 10:09 Yeah, producing director. My definition of it is you shepherd the directors through the process, you let them know how it works on a show, every show is different. Every show will have its own its own Look, its own sort of traditional tenants of what they're trying to
DeMane Davis Page 5 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai do. You act as a liaison between the the writers and the directors, you make sure that the vision of the show was intact from episode to episode. And you also get to generally make comments on scripts, before they go to lens, you get to make comments on on the actual edits before they're finally you know, before they move up to studio and network. And what's most important to me is just get to be boots on the ground, like you get to be in it with the people making the show every day. And you have the opportunity to affect the culture of that show, you know, you have the opportunity to affect who gets hired, you have the opportunity to make sure that people are seen and heard. And that's really both as a director and a producer, I feel like that's ultimately, ultimately my goal. And if, if more people were seen and heard, I don't think we will be in the situation we're in today. And, and it just allows them to do their job at a level where they're comfortable. And I think when people are comfortable, they do their best work. Because they're not thinking about the different things in their heads or what I didn't, you know, it's like, so I will I go around, and I just talk to people, you know,
Carolina Groppa 11:37
It's so fascinating to me because there's this this idea, right, that we've heard about sets where there's yelling and throwing things, and just like really not a good vibe, right. And I've never understood that because the the creative process is so inherently emotional. And you can only operate at that level. Well, if you feel safe, right? To put it simply, if you feel like you're in a safe environment where people got your back. So it's always bizarre to me to read about, like different times in our industry where that wasn't the case. Because as someone who's come up in physical production on the ground, like being there to support everybody in front and behind the camera, I really believe and this may sound woowoo. But and I preach this, if you listen to my podcast, you'll hear me say this pretty much in every episode. But I really believe that the energy that you have behind the scenes gets imprinted into what you're doing. And whether or not it goes on to become whatever it is you thought or hoped we all have our thoughts and hopes, right for the best thing for the project. Ultimately, the only thing we can control is the journey of making that thing. So who are you going to be in that journey in that process? How are you going to show up? And I think it's important, I think a lot of people who are coming up, always ask for advice of what they can do. And to me, that's always, the biggest thing you can do is just be a person of integrity, I can't teach you that you got to find that on your own, you know, I can model it. But you got to make that decision for yourself, show up have a good attitude be helpful. No, your place. That's it. That's kind of it. And it sounds so simple. But it really is I think if you have that baseline, you can go anywhere from there and learn the craft, learn the sort of trade of it. But those those things, like it's just a choice, I think of how you're going to live your life as a human.
DeMane Davis Page 6 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D DeMane Davis 13:17 Yeah, I totally agree. It's really all about energy. And it's where you put that energy and where you put that time. And, you know, listen, if you this used to happen in restaurants, but now we're not restaurants anymore. I would I would walk into a restaurant, and I would hear the level of the people talking and I would hit the level of a music. And a lot of times they would turn up the music because the people were talking louder, or vice versa. You know, like it's like, okay, the music is loud. So now I have to talk louder, I have no interest in that. I am now yelling. And so it's the same thing on on a set. And so part of being a producing director apart being a producer, or any part of that set is to hear someone yell at someone else, I will go to that person. And this is what I've learned on Queen sugar is I used to kind of stand back from confrontation and avoid it. But now I go right there. And I walk right up to the person who's yelling, and I'll go, what's going on here? How can I help? What's happening? Because it's unacceptable to have somebody and yes, unless a unless there's a fire and you get on fire. And everybody's running, which also isn't kind of good because everybody's running.
Carolina Groppa 14:26
Right?
D DeMane Davis 14:27 There's no, there's just there's no need for that. And what you're doing is you're showing everybody else Oh, I'm supposed to Yeah, that's how I get things done. That's how I get attention. And it's not. And that's a fallacy.
Carolina Groppa 14:39
If you as the person in a position of leadership allows that behavior, right, actually making more room for it, right? You're sort of saying by being silent, you're saying yeah, this is acceptable. Like I'm not gonna step in, or worse, I think like the reprimanding of that in private. It's kind of like that abuser relationship where it's like in public, it's one way but then behind the scenes, we're apologizing, I don't think you need to make an example out of somebody. But I think it's very important for transparency for everybody to see like, you're going to go there, and you're going to very patiently talk to that person just to understand what's going on, right? Because if someone's acting that way, it's they're being triggered by something else, right? That's not really what's happening here. In this moment, it can be an issue in the house, it can be all of that, which is why so much of what we do is playing therapists and psychologists to everybody.
DeMane Davis Page 7 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai D DeMane Davis 15:28 Yeah, I mean, that's like that, that becomes I'm sure it's the same thing for you. Right? That's, that's part of your day. Like, you go look around and you talk to people, they then know that you've seen them. I mean, I genuinely loves people love people, and I care about them. If you've come to work to work on a thing that I'm working on, I'm grateful. So that it's nothing to me to talk to you because I love people. And I love that you showed up to do this. So talk to me about you know, I had a crew member on a thing that I directed in their, their, their daughter was in an exchange program and the family that they were with was mean to her. And so she was staying in the room, and she wasn't eating and they wanted her to fly back. But I know that because I talked to him. And I listened to him. I didn't talk to him, I listen to him. And so every morning, I would show up and go, How's she doing? And you could just see his shoulders were relaxed, because he could talk Yeah, but because it's all this running through his mind, you know. And then the day that like it turned and worked out with the family, and she decided to stay It was like, I was like she stayed. That's great. That's awesome. You know what I mean? And we need more of that, all the time, everywhere.
Carolina Groppa 16:35
Compassion and kindness. Like I always say, you're dealing with hundreds and sometimes 1000s of humans who are human beings who are emotional creatures, who are in different wavelengths at all at all times, based on stuff that's happening in their lives. It's very real. And then, you know, when production was normal production days, they're spending 1214 hours with you, you know, they're spending all their time with you. So it's it's it's not realistic like that that's not going to eventually come up for someone but navigating that and helping someone feel supported through that. I think that's the ticket. You know, I don't think most people are inherently assholes, or mean, I think you catch them in those moments where they, they have that thing we all have been there. Right. So but how you how you navigate that, like I said, that's what defines your character, your integrity and understanding. We've all been there at some point. So I don't know. I think it's, it's very important. I'm on a mission to like to speak this everywhere I can and teach people, especially new people coming up underneath that, that it doesn't have to be in a certain way it can be in if you see others acting this way. And you're new don't think that that's the way you have to be to get where they're going. Because I think more and more that is, let's call it management style is is not is no longer in vogue.
D DeMane Davis 17:48 Yeah, no, exactly. Like, just like I saw Gail Fisher playing Peggy being secretary. And I
DeMane Davis Page 8 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai thought I can do that. You know, don't think if you see a director yelling, if you see any crew member yelling at anyone else, don't think that that's acceptable. And that's the way to do it. And that's the way to get things done. I love I love how you described it as as imprinting. I think that's really beautiful.
Carolina Groppa 18:10
I really believe that. And I know, for me, like, I've been a part of projects where on paper, it's like very fancy, very impressive, famous people, all the things, but I almost left the business, you know, because of the experience of making it robbed my soul so much that I thought, wow, if this is like, who I have to become, or who I have to be around, or if these are my bosses, and this is how they think it's appropriate to navigate these circumstances and I don't have the power to speak up, then. I'm not really interested, you know, and I had one particular project, of course, that I won't name that I, it took me like six months, like from my soul energetically to bounce back and be like, okay, there are good people in this business. Not everybody is like this. And it was it is a breath of fresh air when you find those people because I would say majority of those experiences are like that. And you know, I don't negate the the value of having a negative experience, because I think that's what shapes you and defines you. Right? Who are you going? I said that all the time? Like, who are you going to be like, I could have chosen to become a bitter cynical person as a result of that experience. But I said No, fuck that. I'm, I'm going to I'm going to go higher, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to find a way to still show up and and not let this consume me in a way and so I was curious because I haven't directed I've mostly produced and as I mentioned, I came up in physical production. So it's a grind you know, it's very much a grind you're on the ground it's your I feel like it's like I describe it like the matrix once you're plugged in. I do a lot of features. It's like six months of your life like you don't have weekends you sleep your dream about it. You have nightmares about it anxiety about it like it's because you have to care so much and the independent filmmaking side, right. But, but as a producer, there is a spiritual cost I find. And so I'm curious if for you, there is a similar parallel to that. If you find maybe that when you are wearing your directing hat versus your producing hat is one a little easier to navigate from your, like, energetically, you know, of having to deal with, with the people and the things because, and I'll wrap it up with my long winded way to ask this question. But I like to ask often, how do you feel your own? Well, you know, because when you are in a position, a position of leadership, you have to show up and be so many things for so many people. And most producers, I know when I'm like, Okay, and what do you do for you? And what's your self care? Like? How do you make sure you're showing up to set like the best version of you so you can hand all of this out? Because it, it requires so much we're not, you know, we're not robots are magicians like we are also human beings who also have emotional needs. And so I always like to pose those questions. And so I know I've I kind of looked at things in one
DeMane Davis Page 9 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai but I'm just curious to your general thoughts to that.
D DeMane Davis 20:54 Yeah, no, that's a that's a I appreciate that question. And I think we all need to fill our well during these times because it's, it's incredibly depleting what's happening. I take baths when I can, Epsom salts are amazing. Epsom salts are are phenomenal. Epsom salts are magnesium, but don't ingest Epsom salts. You I also take magnesium, but it was a little sensitive to it. So sometimes because I was taking it to practice lucid dreaming. And so when I take it during the week, yeah, cuz I'm trying to work out stuff in my dreams just trying to maximize, but take it to a conversation for a different damage or whatever. Yeah, this is crap. The kuko will have a little Oh, please. She's teasing everybody with was a gift. Is that? Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So, magnesium is good, but I take it on the weekends. Because otherwise, I feel like I'm still in the dream, which is kind of freaky. Like the first couple hours of the day. For me on magnesium. I'll be like, I'll poke people like when you could touch them because that real and vitamins are big. Zinc is huge. Zinc is great for your immune system, Vitamin C, of course. And then I like to just like, not talk to anybody. Like not people who and friends are important as well. I have a very, very close friends. I think it's good to have friends who are your close friends who know you. And then it's great to have friends who are who know you but who also know production. Because there's a there's a difference, right? So like I had, I had my best friend. I tried to call a recent MC burger in New York and I couldn't get her so I called my other girl. Jenna, but she doesn't know production as well. And she was like, you just tell them no. Yeah, no, I, you you gotta you've got to get good at telling people. No, you have them. We'll have a conversation later about how I can't tell them. No, and if I do is your second bedroom available? Because that's where I'll be living. You don't tell them? No, you give them options as a producer you give them option? Yes. You want this then I get through this but this that's this what's happening you know and and also sidebar I went to save No, for when it's really no, cuz it's usually there's not a no, usually you can't figure something out. It's just time and money. So when you want to spend your time and money on just like as a director, I'm trying to figure out what do I want to spend time and money on? So it's very similar. Meditation, I'm trying but honestly, sometimes I'm so busy that if I meditate, I'll fall asleep. So Yoga is also good. I remember on Queen Sugar, I brought my mat, I put it down, and I stick yoga. And then the phone started ringing and I was like what? Yeah, we're waiting for you downstairs. So I can't really do that. Like, you know, during hard during. It's hard. It's hard during but I like the I like the new york times seven minute seven minute workout. I started doing that. And that's pretty good. Right? Like 30 seconds of this, 30 seconds of rest.
DeMane Davis Page 10 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Carolina Groppa 24:06
Sounds like it's it's like resting your body and then moving your body. Time to go within. That's how you recharge.
D DeMane Davis 24:11 Yeah, and then just not talking. Yeah, because you talk so much. It's like, so now I'm just like, I love not talking to anyone and just having like music on and just, you know, what do you do?
Carolina Groppa 24:11
Yeah, I'll be in production and then my parents want to call very close to my parents or my friends want to call and catch up. And I'm like, I just don't want to talk to you. Like I don't have the bandwidth to tell you about my day. Because it's just, I need to be in silence. You know, it's like, hard for me to even watch television. Like any input is really hard. I just need to like have silence I drive home. I drive without the radio on. I'm just super quiet. But I think it really is. Like you said, finding times to slow down and also I think it's important like during set during production. I really make it Point to get to know the people that I know on the day are not going to be drinking enough water are not going to be making time to, you know, treat themselves to like an iced latte like small things that just really give someone a boost of like, Oh, you you care, you're paying attention. And so I like to find what those things are for my fellow producers in my production team and, and be like, okay, she's cranky, she needs a snack. Let's go get her some gluten free crackers. This is what's going on here. And just like repeating them to her because I think sometimes we just get so into what we're doing. We don't properly eat lunch, you know, it gets cold, like go into any production office, there's like 18 unfinished drinks, because you can never get through one thing. And it's it's especially when you're on set right? Oftentimes you have your your production trailer on in an independent films, your production office sometimes is also on set. And so it's actually really hard to get anything done because you're there in the middle of a task and someone walks in asking for a timecard. And you're like, You think I'm just hanging out on my laptop like scrolling social, like, I'm actually in the middle of a thing. I you know what I'm saying? So you're, it's, I say that because it's important that you're constantly being interrupted in the things that you're doing. So it's very important to take time to go for a five minute walk, especially if you're on location somewhere beautiful, yes, go outside. If you're at the Disney ranch and go, take 10 minutes, get lost, it's fine, like come back, be responsible, but go fill your soul in these little ways. And I think the other thing for me that is just stopping and being present, right? Like, I had this moment on silvius love. And that was a really challenging production. It was a big one of
DeMane Davis Page 11 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai the largest productions I've ever been a part of. But we were sitting at Disney Ranch, and I was just looking at like, all the contours and all the lights. And I was just like, Whoa, so yeah, I'm like, This is crazy. Like, we did this, like, we put all this shit here. Like someone wrote some words, years ago, they dream this up. And now like, we're here, we're doing it. Wow. Like, you know, I still find it so important to have these moments where you can still be mesmerized by the fact that we get to do this for a living, we get to be in these magical spaces with incredible people getting to tell stories that shape perspectives that change our worlds that support people in whatever ways they need that support. And I think it's I don't know, it's such a privilege. You know, I think one of the things that 2020 taught me and one of my takeaways for as challenging as it was for all of us is, is that, you know, like what we get to do as storytellers getting to be a woman in this business right now. Like, there's never been a better time, you know, and so, what a privilege What an honor, that we get to do this. And so yeah, I want to show up and be great. Yeah, I want to be an example to other people. Yeah, I really want to show that it is possible to find success to get where you're going with kindness, with mindfulness with integrity, and and it builds a better industry. And so that's very much my mo I don't know how I got on that soapbox. This happens a lot. So I apologize. But yeah, that's, that's awesome. That's how I feel about it. You know, and I think I've had so many wonderful nudges from the universe along the way, when I've had these these down slumps, which I the downward slumps of this industry of this business, which I want to ask you about that. There's always been this little voice, you know, like, keep going, like you're on the right path.
Carolina Groppa 28:21
I had my very own Ava DuVernay experience where she did not slide into my DMs but I definitely slid into her. This is back before dming was the thing on her Twitter and emailed her. We ended up meeting in person at the LA Film Fest once and I had this incredible experience where in 2010, I went to my first Sundance, I forget what year it was. And I was I decided to volunteer because I was like, Well, I don't I heard that you shouldn't go to Sundance if you don't have a movie. So I'm gonna volunteer. And I was working as an usher opening night to I forget what film it was. But it was the year that like Dear White People came out. It was like just epic, epic year. I think it may have been Dear White People. That was the opening night movie, but I remember I was being an usher. And then Ava came in and they were like, Oh, you need to help this woman gets out. And I was like, but that's a different era to talk. And I was just like, oh my god, oh my god. Oh my god. You know, I was like, so nervous. And I've met and worked with a lot of people, but she just represents so much to me. And so I was like, helping her to her seat. I was like, "Hi Ava. I'm so sorry. This is like the worst time very inappropriate. But like, I'm Carolina. " And she's like, Carolina Groppa? And I was like, I was like, I'm sorry. You know my last name? She's like, yeah, oh, my God, girl, so nice to meet you. And she like hugged me. And I was just
DeMane Davis Page 12 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai like, like that experience at Sundance to be seen and recognized. Right. And this is before Selma. This is before the Ava she's become now but this has always been she's been and it was just like, wow, like she really is the real deal. You know, and, yeah, it was a really wonderful experience. But to bring it back to you, because I've been yapping here for a while. I often like to talk about the realities, right? have what it takes to do this kind of work. I think we do these panels and we see your social media and my social media. And it's like, wow, these women and they're so impressive and, and all of this, but, but a lot of people don't see the hardships. And that's okay. Like it's not, it's our journey, right? We're on the inside of it. But I'm curious, when you have experienced these hardships in your career, the ups and downs, maybe the undulations of success? How have you navigated that? And when you've been in these downward slumps, how have you gotten out of it, and continued the path?
D DeMane Davis 30:33 Yeah, I don't really look at them as slumps, or hardships, or I don't use the word failure. Because I'm learning something, I'm learning from it. So if I'm learning from it, then it's not a hardship. It's not a failure, it's not a and listen, there are real hardships. Like there are real people who are really going through some real fucking shit. That is not my hardship I am, I'm fortunate not to have that. And I am, you know, I am in support of those people who are going through things. And I know that part of why I'm here on this earth is to serve. And so my intention is to try to serve people through story through my job, you know, if I can support some organization, help them throw them some money, or make sure that people know about them. Because I want everybody to be okay. I want everybody to be able to, you know, to do what they are here to do. So, yeah, I don't really I don't really look at it as that. And also I have the, the ability to write, so I'll write about it. And I'll get it out of me and onto a page and then I'll think, oh, maybe that'll turn into this, or that'll turn into that. But either way, it's it's on me. So I wrote about it. And then the other thing is, I know that there's something that I'm supposed to learn. So that's why this when a project doesn't happen a job, I don't get a job. I'm like oh, I'm supposed to learn something here. And I think a lot of people, you can make the mistake of future planning. Absolutely. And think about it and talk about it. But what's what you said earlier, be present, like you have to be here. I can't think about tomorrow to the point that I'm not here with you having this conversation, having this wonderful connection, and listening to the things that you're suggesting, you know, I can't think about Okay, tomorrow, that's supposed to be 11 hour day, but you have to be where you are in that moment. Because there's something for you there. There are messages everywhere. I'm a firm believer in that, as well as a firm believer and thoughts become things, which is another reason why I don't say failure. I don't say hardship. That's right. Oh, and you know, I think in hindsight later, you could look at something and be like, Oh, yeah, that was, uh, but I might say,
DeMane Davis Page 13 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, but I learned. Yeah, that might have been a tough time. But guess what, I still had a clothing, I still had an apartment. You know what I'm saying? Like, I still like, That was a tough time. But I got through it. And here's what I learned from that time. And here's what I'm learning from that time to hear. So that I'm always grounded.
Carolina Groppa 33:01
Have you always been this way and this wise and mature? Or like, do you just come out the gate like this? Or like, what, what did you you know, I'm saying, because I think everything you're saying is like, absolutely. But in my own journey, after being in this business for 14 years, it took me a while to get there emotionally, right, my ways of responding to the business, responding to not getting a job responding to periods of no work, especially as a freelancer and not taking that personally, and having that not be a reflection of your own identity in this business in whatever you're trying to do. And like I said, it took me a while it took yoga and meditation and therapy to sort of realize that, like I said, if you're going to show up as your authentic self, then that also means you're exposing your authentic self, and that you're going to have to like be a little protective of that. And I think in my youth, I may have gone a little too deep with the heart chakra there and needed to like reel it back a bit and understand how to navigate that so that I don't feel depleted by certain people, or by certain experiences that aren't failures. But there are a lot of energy vampires in our business, you know, so. So, so many and so like, being able to go, okay, you're one of these people, and that's okay, and you're not a reflection of me. It's awesome. But like I said, it took me a long time to understand that lesson and how to have better tools for myself to not get caught up in that noise. So I can show up and do the work because that's all that really matters at the end of the day.
D DeMane Davis 34:32 No, I mean, I totally hear you. It took me a long time as well. Look, I used to be a pessimist. Like I used to think that if I'm, it's not going to work out, and so therefore if it doesn't work out, I'm already low, so I just have to go that much lower. It's not that far before. All right, not realizing that that's just negative energy that I'm putting out on myself doesn't cost anything for you to think optimistically, but it took me years to go through it. You know, I've had a therapist, I had clinical depression, I, you know, did a lot of yoga, a lot of thinking about what I what I really wanted, I decided to be here and then I'm like, Okay, now I'm gonna flip it, and it takes some, it takes a while to train your brain. But once you do that, once you start to, however, whatever it takes to do that, you know, sometimes I'll think negative, and I'll be like, Okay, that's it. You're not saying anymore. That's it. Then the next time I think, and I'm like, No, you gave that gave that space, like two hours ago or yesterday, no more. No more time. There's nothing positive to be said about that. When
DeMane Davis Page 14 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai people started going around saying there's going to be a civil war. I'm like, I'm never using that word. I don't want to use it. I can't I don't want to bring that to this experience. I don't other people can bring it. I'm not going to say I'm going to talk about what we're going to gain. But what can we what can we get? And I'll tell you, when Ava initially reached out to me, she asked me if I had any television scripts, because she was opening the Queen sugar room. Right. So so then actually, you're right. That's, that's when I first did think about writers I really thought Oh, yeah, that's right, right. Right. Now, I had submitted two scripts at that point to the Sundance episodic labs, they didn't get in. I was, I was bummed out. But I had those two scripts, everything for a reason, right? Like, oh, I wouldn't have had those scripts, if I didn't, so it doesn't matter. So I sent them to her. And obviously, I didn't, it didn't work out. I didn't get into the room. But a year later, I get called to direct the show. Also, the other thing that I did, that day that she reached out to me is I said, Oh, Queen sugar, okay, I better go to the library and get that book because I'm going to be working on Queen sugar. And then I went to the library on Friday, I got that book, I read it from cover, I started making notes on it. And every time I thought about it, every time I thought about the book, every time I thought about the show, I said I'm gonna I'm gonna be working on that. So this is good that I've read the book, and I can think about these characters. It costs you nothing. And it's a great book. So what did you do? You spent some time reading a book, that's awesome. You know what I mean? So yeah, flip it like that you can make gains, and there's not a negative, but believe me, it takes time. And now that I am in this more positive, optimistic realm, I do find that vampires like even more, so I just like I gotta center myself, I gotta protect myself, I do gold meditation, you know, gold meditation, where you you imagine my acupuncturist that I used to see, you imagine from the ends of your hair, right to the tips of your toes, that you're turning gold. So you just take some time to see it and to feel it. And monks use it to protect themselves. So anything that bounces towards you bounces right off your gold, stay gold. So I use it before I go into big meetings, or if I go into any situation where I'm like, this gonna be the end just gonna be a little dicey. Sometimes presentations, depending on who's there. You know, it's good to do if you fall asleep. It's great to do while you're falling asleep. It's It's great.
Carolina Groppa 38:07
Amazing. I want to bring it back to one of the things that in your story I find really fascinating for a moment, which is that you were working in advertising for a minute, you had a career as a copywriter at some point. And I want to dig into this because it I couldn't find it more information. But the line is that you know, you were able to direct to features right, while you were holding down that job. Is that true? Yeah. This is pre 2016. This is like when you were like I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go I'm just gonna go wear all
DeMane Davis Page 15 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai these hats and figure this out. So how did you find the space in your life to do all of that? And when one of those features was the one that Kerry Washington was in, Lift, right?
D DeMane Davis 38:50 Yep, Lift.
Carolina Groppa 38:53
Yeah, talk a little bit about like that time in your life. Yeah,
D DeMane Davis 38:57 Thank you. So, I come from a line of people who know how to hustle, a mama hustle. She went to night school, she had two jobs, and raising four kids, single mom, single mom, respect to all single mothers out there. Um, I saw that and I'm like, okay, for me, knowing that this was something that I really, I really loved. You know, I really love advertising, being a copywriter. And I really love the idea of making these films and my first film was black and white rollover, which I think is pretty much only available on VHS. Somewhere, and, and so. And the idea from that came from visiting my niece, she wasn't there. She had photos on her wall, but she also had these funeral programs. In the course of a year and a half. She had lost four friends to violence. And I was overwhelmed. We were very close, but she was 16. She had never expressed this to me what she was going through. So I'm like, What can I do? I'll make a film. So I had not gone to film school but I had a Spike Lee's books and then I had Robert Rodriguez book Rebel Without a crew and read that and because I had made commercials with people, different vendors as a copywriter, I knew what happens on on a set. It's the same set. It's just longer. And once I decided literally I just said, I set my intent, which I didn't even realize until years later that that's what I was doing. I was like I'm making a movie. Everyone was like What are you doing? I'm like I'm making a movie and I just and people joined in different people who are like what you're making will help editor who's now edited both of my films very close friend of mine, Peter bar systems at a bar in Boston. My partner at the time was Carrie Streeter, my art director partner, he was involved Terry McCoy got him involved, Mark Hankey. And now what was in pitcher Park him evolved and just did ads for the camera company to get a camera package. And just put it together. So yeah, if you if you love it, it doesn't really matter, right. And for me, I'm like, I gotta save some lives here. That's that was my bigger goal. I'm doing this trying to save some people. So I need to get this message out there. That got into Sundance. And then went on had a really rich, rich festival life. And then we got into the, into the labs, the Sundance labs, with Lift. So with the first film, the agency
DeMane Davis Page 16 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai where I was working very small agency here, Easton. They said, we will give you time off to make your film. And I was like, that was incredible. So they gave us the 18 days off. It doesn't mean we didn't work on other stuff. We took calls, we worked at night on other things sometimes. And as soon as we started editing, we were back, you know, making it. But that's what you have to do. You know, it doesn't, you know, I'm grateful that my friends and my family know my job. And so I didn't get pressure from them to you know, you miss so and so's birthday. It's like, I'm doing what I'm here to do. I'm doing what I love, and I have this message I need to get across. So I have very forgiving friends and family who understand understood that early on, because even working in advertising. I think it's one job one weekend advertising, I work 80 hours. So
42:23
yeah, it's the
D DeMane Davis 42:24 same thing. And I actually say to anyone in advertising advertising preps before working in film, like I think there's a lot of similarities there. And then lift came and it was it was the same thing, but a little a little different than I had my own my own agency had a couple of small agencies and shut that down to do lift. But was still if anything else is coming up. It's it's you know, it's coming up like, yeah, so take those calls and take those meetings. And, you know, yeah,
Carolina Groppa 42:53
I think it's important when we talk about the hustle like, you know, basically creating space right for yourself and asking for the things that you want, I think is often really hard for a lot of people, there's a tactfulness that has to come with putting yourself out there. And I think you've sort of learned by doing because not most of you can have the hustle. But there's always fear involved, right? Like, I don't know about you, but there's still the fear of like, Oh, my God, I'm going to message this person, they may reject me, but I still feel those feelings. I just say, maybe I don't know. But I rather find out then wonder what is very spiritual with these conversations. Because I think we know we get the one life as far as we know. And I, as an immigrant to this country, my parents came here when I was nine, I'm from Brazil, and like, I spent six months of my life not speaking this language, and like not knowing what was going on around me. But something about that trauma instilled in me that no matter what I gotta, I gotta make something happen. Like, I gotta be a person who does something because I understand the value of what my parents who
DeMane Davis Page 17 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai left everything behind me three small children at my age, I can't even imagine that, you know, to try a life in a new country to try something new. So it's not lost on me the gratitude and the blessings that I have to get to do this to get to be where I am. And so, to your point, you only connect the dots when you're looking backwards. You never know. Right? And so I think it's so cool that you are you literally like live by these things, no matter how you got there. And it's so inspiring. So thank you, thank you for sharing that.
D DeMane Davis 44:27 Yeah. And the two things I want to say after that, like I want to be clear, like there's it's, it's tough and it's long hours, but what you said before is it's true. Like I have the honor of doing something that I really love to do and every day I go to set, I am excited like I'm thrilled to be there making this thing with all these people coming off of Queen Sugar. My first experience after Queen Sugar was on 'For the People' which is Shondaland, and Tom Varikof and sitting across from Tom, and he's like, "Listen, Okay, I gotta go to New York and I got to film this thing. But um, you could just if you want to go walk the sets by yourself, you can." And I was like, What? And he's like, yeah, and, and I tried to like, I try to not show him how fucking excited I was. Because that's magic. Like the fact that you walk into the space and there's a house in there. And it's shit opens and the fridge works. And on the day, I shoot, they plug in the sink and the steps really go, y'all made this. Like, it's Yeah, amazing. And I was like, he does not know he does not want me I went into sets that I should not have gone in, I went into more than four people sets. I was like, sneaking around corners lurking, taking photos and shit. Like, I never told him that. But, um, but it's it but it's like, it's ridiculous that that we we get to play. It is play. All day. You know, we get to do it with a family of people together. Everyone gets to have an idea for me, best idea always wins, and then we have this thing afterwards that we all worked on. There's nothing more exhilarating or exciting than that. And the other thing that I'll say is my friend Risa Mickenberg said something to me so astute. She's a screenwriter, playwright, musician. She said, Just do it with joy. If you do it with joy, you'll never regret it. And I went, "oh!" And so now even the task that is the most mundane, or the most dirty, or the most negative, there's joy in there, and I'm gonna fucking find it. Then I find it and then I just try to magnify it as much as possible. And then there's no failure, then there's no that was super negative. And there's no, you know, that was awful time. It's like, no, I learned something. No, I found joy in that thing. Like I figured it out.
Carolina Groppa 47:21
Perspective is everything. You get to choose every day how you want to where you want to play, where the angle is gonna be angles on producers. But seriously, like you get to you get to choose, you get to magnify whatever is happening, and then how you're gonna let
DeMane Davis Page 18 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai that impact your your a day in your life. And I think that's wonderful. And it's such a great reminder, to me and to everybody listening, hopefully about it is such a simple shift. Not easy to do sometimes. But if you can try to find it, you know, like the Four Agreements, if you can go to bed knowing you did your best every day, like, that's all we can do. You know? Yeah, no, tomorrow. So my dad likes to say, if you can steal a smile, or a laugh from someone every day, do it because it's the bad thing. And it costs you nothing. But he came here with, didn't speak English and can walk into any room and like, just light up anybody and make anybody laugh and get on the same wavelength as anybody. And it's such a wonderful skill that he has that I know cost him things as well. But like he, it's the joy that it brings him is is paramount. And so that's how he lives his life. And I remember when I first saw that in action at a grocery store checkout and how he made it a point to make the woman at the checkout laugh. And I was like, oh, like, Oh, yeah, that's a human like, I can interact with this person. This isn't just transactional, it doesn't cost them nothing. And she was just saying goodbye to and be like, Alright, y'all have a good day. And I was just like, it gave her that boost of joy. And I don't know, it just, it's, it's I live my life by those principles. I don't always succeed. Like I said, some days you aren't having a day and that's just where you're at. And you got to honor that too. But I think to your point, if you can always bring it back to the joy then I think then it's a life worth living.
D DeMane Davis 49:09 It's not just every day, that's a new chance to do that. It's every minute. You don't have to be like, tomorrow will be better. You can decide, okay, it's three o'clock at four o'clock, I decide it's fucking better. You decide you have the power to decide, literally, you know, So figure out what it is it's going to get you there with a blast and Biggie Smalls, you know, whatever, whatever it is decide that and then put it on and do it if you need to run some wind sprints real quick. If you need to spend some time talk to you know, zoom with someone, someone's kids.
Carolina Groppa 49:47
I like feeling like I can take something that's not possible and make it possible for someone even if it's a small thing, like I just need this person's email. I got you. You know, it just it gives me like joy to be able to help someone Do the thing. I have one final question for you before I wrap it up. What's the legacy that you hope to leave behind?
D DeMane Davis 50:11 Oh, god, what? You know, I have lots of things that I'm that I'm going to do. And I don't say
DeMane Davis Page 19 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai that, I say that they are going to happen. In my bathroom mirror, it says in brown lipstick, which tells you how old it is because people barely wear brown lipstick anymore, but it says "Not if, When." And so I always say when. And I'm going to make, you know, I mean, I'm going to have three to four television series on at the same time and also direct a feature film every other year, I'm going to have an internship program for people that pairs, young people, old people, whatever with a crew member, so that they can shadow them so that they can learn that skill, because we need more people who look like us, we need more women, we need more. Everything on those crews. Ava's crew was the most To this day, the most diverse, who I've ever seen before in my life. First, first time and I I do not want it to be the last that I've ever worked with a black female grip. Yeah, so, um, you know, yeah, so I guess that's in that way, if I can provide for others, because every opportunity is you have you could provide for for others and make make space for people who want that sense of belonging, you know, as well, you know, when I, when I buy a gift for someone, I go to Google Maps, I look, there's not Google, Google commercial, but I go to Google Maps, and I look them up, and then I look nearby. And then I try to find those businesses that are black and brown owned, I try to find those female owned businesses and be like, I know, I'm gonna find this female owned flower shop here. And get that you know, what I mean, and support and especially now to support those small businesses. And yeah, you know, I'm so I like to, I'd like to shop local very often. So yeah, I guess, I guess that would be it. Legacy, such a big word.
Carolina Groppa 52:42
It is a big word but we can impact in small ways.
D DeMane Davis 52:47 Small ways. Right every day.
Carolina Groppa 52:51
Exactly. And I think oftentimes, the biggest impact is the one we have on our local community, what a life worth living that, hopefully, you mean, we can be remembered, not just for the work that we create, before, the way that we did the work and the quality and the things that we, you know, work towards changing for the better that hopefully, 2040 you know, 100 years from now is just like the new, the new normal, and we've been a part of this wave of change that is much needed. You know, we're at the beginning of like, yeah, we recognize this as an issue. We've been talking about it and now let's like actually do something about it. Everywhere, everybody, not just Ava. On Miss Virginia, we went out
DeMane Davis Page 20 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai of our way to find female department heads to find people of color department heads, we still gave the best person the job, you know, we still wanted to reward that. But when my, you know, a cinematographer comes to me and is like oh, but I don't know, any female ACS. So, I'm like let me introduce you.
Carolina Groppa 53:52
And now you have, like, so many that, you know, because I can't fault for someone, especially as like, we all have our teams, we have our people, we have our shorthand, I get that. And society, you know, we sort of tend to hang out with people who look like us. That's like a sort of psychological thing. So I can't fault someone for not really, having ever looked or tried. But once I've given you the resources, then it's on you. And you got to go, like, I'm making you aware that this is like something you should think about and not you got to go and do that.
D DeMane Davis 54:19 And that's what Ava does all the time. People say I can't find those people. She goes look harder. And look, she achieved gender parity on Cherish The Day. That's like, you know, 50% feel like come on. Like, it's possible.
Carolina Groppa 54:34
Possible. Exactly. And it shouldn't be just Ava doing this heavy lifting.
D DeMane Davis 54:38 No. It has to be it has to be all of us. And I think you know, when I learned about Queen Sugar and what they were doing, I realized I had never worked with a female director of photography perform. And I was doing a commercial and I said to my, to my line and producer, I was like I want to work with a female dp and they went Oh, and then That's all they said. And so then Shas Bennett, who is an incredible filmmaker and director and writer, I said, she has I need a female dp, and she gave me a bunch of websites. So you just you take it upon yourself. And I found one. And I found Karen Anderson, and I work with her and she was phenomenal. You know, like, it's you have to, you can find them. We all know them. Other people say that they're not. It's like, it's exactly what you said, let me introduce you. Yep.
DeMane Davis Page 21 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai Carolina Groppa 55:30
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, you're just lovely. And I want to just chat with you forever. But I do want to be mindful that we have other lovely people who have questions for you. So before I turn it over to them, I just want to thank you for doing this podcast, this conversation for sharing a little bit of your insights and your journey with me and the listeners and the viewers. I feel so blessed that I get to do the work that I do, but also that I get to do the show, and I get to share it with people. So that, you know, reminds us that we're not really alone in this journey. And that it's, it's all there for the taking, and that it's all possible. So thank you.
D DeMane Davis 56:09 Thank you so much. And thank you for your work for what you do. Thank you for Sylvia's love, which was just gorgeous. And for Miss Virginia, which is just like instructional, we all need to be doing that. And I know you must have a film script that you're writing about how you came to America and your dad and I can't wait. I can't wait to work with you.
Carolina Groppa 56:34
Yeah, likewise!
DeMane Davis Page 22 of 22 Transcribed by https://otter.ai