INDEX COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BOARD MEETING March 11, 1959 Page Official appointment of Mr. Frank Milenski to Colorado Water Conservation Board by Governor McNichols · 2 Report on proposed cooperative study by C. U. and C.S.U. by Dr. Garnsey 3 Report on same subject by Dr. Roberts 4 Discussion of budget for proposed study, Dr. Garnsey 10 Discussion on proposed study 14 Introduction of President Morgan, President of C.S.U. 20 Welcoming speech by President Morgan 21 Report of Water Investigation Commission b~ Mr. Barkley 23 Report by John Barnard, Sr. on filling of ~len Canyon 25 Report on hydraulic studies of Glen Canyon by Mr. Kuiper 29 Report by Mr. Millen on power studies of Glen Canyon 32 Report by Dr. Chamberlain on programs and facilities at C.S.U. 37 Report on Watershed Management Department at C. S.U. by Dr. Dils . 44 C~py of Proposed Study by C.S.U. and c.u.· Appendix A MINUTES OF COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BO.ARD MEETING March 11, 1959 Attendance Board Members Present Benjamin F. Stapleton, Jr. Vice-Chairman Denver Felix L. Sparks Director & Secretary Denver W. M. Williams Board Member Denver Frank Milenski Board Member La Junta Wm. H. Nelson Board Member Grd. Junction L. S. McCandless Board Member Craig John B. Barnard, Jr. (for Board Mero.be r Denver Duke Dunbar) Richard E. Conour Board Member Del Norte David Miller Board Member Greeley Clarence E. Burr Board Member Walden J.E. Whitten Board Member Denver Board Members Absent Gov. Stephen L. R. McNichols Chairman Denver F. M. Peterson Board Member Delta D. L. 'Lew' Williams Board Member Norwood Others Attending ' Raphael J. Moses Atty. for C.W.C.B. Alamosa L. R. Kuiper Supvr. Hyd.Engr.C.W.C.B. Denver Charles C. Fisk Denver Water Board Denver Robert E. Dils Watershed Mgmt.Unit C.S.U. Ft. Collins Peter E. Black Watershed Mgmt.Unit C.S.U. Ft. Collins John B. Barnard, Sr. Colo.Riv.Water Cons.Dist. Granby J. R. Barkley Colo.Water Inv. Com. Loveland Harold H. Christy Colo.Water Inv. Com.N.R.A. Pueblo J. Selby Young S.E.Colo.Water Cons.Dist. Colo.Springs C. L. Terrell c.s.u. Ft. Collins Carl A. Herzman c.s.u. Ft. Collins John H. Cuykendall Ground Water Commission Roggen W. E. Code Ft. Collins E. J. Fortenberry U.S. Forest Service Denver H. J. Stockwell Soil Cons. Service Ft. Collins Glenn G. Saunders Denver Water Board Denver Alvin Kezer Consultant Ft. Collins Lowell Watts c.s.u. Ft. Collins William E. Morgan c.s.u. Ft. Collins H. M. Sloan So.Platte Water Cons.Dist. Keenesburg C. Keith Millen Public Serv. Co. of Colo. Denver

-i- Others Attending {con't) Charles Boustead S.E.Colo.Water Cons.Dist. Pueblo Donald Hamburg Denver Water Board Denver J. Sid Nichols S.E.Colo.Water Cons.Dist. Colo.Springs R. E. Whiteman U. S. G. S. Grd.Junction Philip P. Smith Colo.River Water Cons.Dist. Glenwood Spgs. Ralph Sargent, Jr. Public Serv.Co. of Colo. .Denver J. H. Knights Bureau of Reclamation, Reg.7 Denver J.M. Barrett Bureau of Reclamation Pueblo Wm. S. Eakes S.W.Colo.Water Cons.Dist. Durango C. H. Jex S.W.Colo.Water Cons.Dist. Grd.Junction J. A. Hughes Tri-Co.Water Cons.Dist. Montrose W. D. Ray Fish· & Wildlife Serv. Denver R. P. Shaklee So.Platte Water Cons.Dist. Keenesburg R. M. Gildersleeve Chief Engr.C.W.C.B. Denver Morris E. Garnsey Univ. of Colorado Boulder Walter Orr Roberts Univ. of Colorado Boulder A. R. Chamberlain c.s.u. Ft. Collins Mark Bearwald Denver Post Denver Mort Bittinger c.s.u. Ft. Collins Lee Keating Admn.Secty. C.W.C.B. Denver

-ii- MINUTES OF COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BOARD MEETING STUDENT UNION BUILDING FT. COLLINS,COLORADO March 11, 1959

The meeting was called to order by the Vice-Chairman at 10:00 A. M. MR. STAPLETON: "Gentlemen if we can call the meeting to order, I have the distinct impression that every~ body here is about two blocks back. I don't see why we can't come a little closer. I am sure that it would facilitate the friendliness of the meet­ ing so l e t 's bring some of these chairs up closer if you don't mind. The fellows who have the deep seat cushions , you are out of order. Gentlemen and Mrs. Keating, we will call this meeting of the Colorado Water Conservation Board to order. On behalf of the members of the Board and our guests, we are delighted to be here at what I believe is the first meeting we have ever had at the Colorado State University. We are delighted, as I said, to be here and in a few minutes we will have a word of greeting from the President of the University, but we have a full agenda and we will go right on with the agenda. If any of you have some remarks to make, we'd appreciate it, so that we can get it on the record, if you will come up to the table where you can get within reasonable proximity of one of these micro­ phones which will help Mrs. Keating with the min­ utes. Those of you who have read the minutes con­ scientiously know what a great improvement this equipment has made in the accuracy of our minutes, the Durango meeting to the contrary notwithstand~ ing, and if you will do that, it will help us a great deal. I would like, first of all, to have approval of the minutes of the last meeting of the Water Conservation Board held in Denver. There have been some typographical corrections which have all been made. Are there any other additions or corrections which the Board has to note at this time? Hearing none I will ente:rta.in a motion that the minutes be approved as sub:. 1i tt~d."

-1- MR. MILLER: "I so move." MR. CONOUR: "I second it." MR. STAPLETON: "All those in favor of the minutes as cor­ rected will please say 'aye '; opposed - the min­ utes are approved. I have a communication from the Governor: EXECUTIVE ORDER COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BOARD ORDERED: That Mr. Frank Milenski, of La Junta, Colorado, be and he is hereby appointed a member of the COLORADO WATER CONSERVATION BOARD to fill the vacancy occasioned by the resignation of Mr. Christian Wunsch, of La Junta, Colorado, for a term expiring May 12, 1960. GIVEN under my hand and the Executive Seal of Colorado this fourteenth day of January, A. D. 1959 /sf STEVE McNICHOLS Governor Frank, we are delighted to have you with us and I would like you to stand up. I think you all know Frank. He has been one of the active members of the water groups in Colorado for many years and will be a valuable addition to our Board." MR. MI LENSKI: "Thank you." MR. STAPLETON: "For the members of the Board's information Mr. Sparks and I received a letter from the Gover­ nor concerning some investigation projects sug­ gested by Drs. Garnsey and Roberts of the Univer­ sity of Colorado at Boulder. I say that - the University of Colorado at Boulder - because I am not quite used to the Colorado State University and the University of Colorado, so this is Boulder. I was very anxious to hear a report from Drs. Garnsey and Roberts and I am sure you will be. Dr. Garnsey has done many research projects for the Governor in the last few years very success­ fully and he enjoys the confidence of the Governor{s

-2.- office and the Legislative branch of the State Government. Dr. Roberts, as you know, is head of the Climax Observatory at Climax and Boulder and one of the very distinguished scientists of the University of Colorado. We are delighted to have them here and we placed them first on the agenda so that we can hear their proposal and suggestions on a complete survey of our water resources on the Colorado River. So Dr. Garnsey, will you take over from here?" (See Appendix A for report from Drs. Garnsey, Roberts and Chamberlain sent to Board members prior to this meeting). DR. GARNSEY: "Mr. Chairman, Mr. Director and members of the Board, as far as I am personally concerned this is really an historic occasion. I have been in Colorado now for about twenty years and during all of that time I have had the privilege of work­ ing more or less closely with the Water Board on various matters. I greatly enjoyed years of asso­ ciation with Judge Stone and admired tremendously his activities and his devotion to this 'man-kill­ ing' job of looking ct the water resources of our State. It seems to me that as the twenty years have gone by, we have faced more and more serious problems of water development and conservation and, by and large, we have been rising to the challenge of these pretty well. The reason I feel that this is an historic occasion is because I feel that the proposal that we have made to the Board represents a sort of a scientific breakthrough in dealing with these problems and that the Board, by the mere act of hearing and considering this proposal, is rising to the challenge of new problems in an effective way. Second, I think it is favorable, possible to say, if I may use a slight pun, that the climate of public opinion is also in favor of radical and drastic research activities and new policies in the area of water conservation development; and then finally, I am very happy to say that we at the University are in a position now that we weren't twenty years ago to offer to the Board scientific services of high quality. May I add at this point that this project is not solely a project of the University of Colo­ rado but is a joint cooperative project between the Unive rsity of Colorado and Colorado State University and a very large and very important part of the project will be carried on here with the scientists and meteorologists at Colorado State University.

-3- Now I am not going to expound on the project myself but merely make this introduction and ask Dr. Roberts to tell us about it. It is, of course, in the person of Dr. Roberts and the work that he has been doing at the University within the last ten years that we at the University are primarily in a position to make a contribution of this magni­ tude. So Mr. Chairman I would now like to turn the microphone over to Dr. Roberts for the detail of this program." DR. ROBERTS: "Mr. Chairman, Director and members of the Board, I am very pleased to have an opportunity to come to present to you for my own organization and for my colleagues, a proposal to conduct, as Mr. Garnsey has said, some basic research dealing with what to me is by far and away the most important problem effecting the economic future of our nation. It has been utterly incredible to me that so little has really been known, and so little has really been done, to investigate the problem of the long term trend in available water resources in differ­ ent river basins of the nation. What we are pro­ posirtg to do here is to· undertake, in a very straightforward fashion, some of what are really elementary and preliminary steps of the basic re­ search nature to try to find out something about how these water resources change from year to year, of what kind of expectation we can have in future periods based on the history of the past periods for which there are available records, and also what kind of changes can be looked for that are completely outside the realm of factual experience of water flow within the particular area that we are interested in. Now the proposal that we are placing before you is a proposal for a two year research program to be conducted in three parts. These three parts involve the following activities: In the first part of this proposal, and it is well summarized in Mr. Garnsey's first page summary here, t .he first part of this proposal in­ volves what you might call a study of the kinds of variations that exist in the river flow from his­ torical records, to see how often, for example, from the available actual river flow data, how often, or how probable it is, that a drought, for example, of given duration will occur in the river flow. Now this is looking at past history as

.., 4.., simply an example of what future history is likely to bring. If ohe looks at this problem from the standpoint of the knowledge that we have of long term trends in weather over the nation at large, one sees that this may not be a safe assumption; but it is the assumption that one must make as the first starting point in going into a program of examination like this. Without this information, one is moving very blindly in trying to forecast what the trend of· river flow is likely to be in the specific, say, twenty, thirty, fifty year period ahead of us. So that the first part will be to look at stream flow data to see, for exam­ ple, how often a drought of one, two, three or four years' duration is likely to occur, using this information, how abundant or how probable it is that there will be from this information, periods of considerable abundance. What is the probability that the river will flow ahead of a given schedule or how probable is it that it will flow behind that given schedule? So that part one deals with speci­ fic stream flow data, going into a study of all the scientifically observable information that can be derived from the river flow itself and from using this to present in the optimum fashion the information as a prediction based on the expecta­ tion that the future will be like the past, the prediction of the flow for the river basin. The second part of this study has the objec­ tive of looking into the much broader body of weather data that have been taken in the history of Colorado. Weather data of actual precipita­ tion, of temperatures, of wind flow, and the nor­ mal kinds of phenomena that are recorded at a weather bureau station. You might say that it is perfectly obvious that when there is heavy rain­ fall, there will be a large amount of water flow­ ing in the streams. But actually the relationship is not a simple one . If the water falls, for example, in a large number of relatively small storms and the storms are separated by very dry periods, then the amount of available water that turns up as stream flow is very different from that if the water is made available in concen­ trated periods when the storms are rather sub­ stantial in extent. Also it makes a great deal of difference what season of the year the peaks in precipitation occur, and it also makes a great deal of difference what the strength of the wind is following period of precipitation - how much

-5- of this water is lost in evaporation in the atmos­ phere and so on. So that the second portion of the study which will be done principally here at C. S. U., the ob­ jective of this will be to study the long period of historic records for the great number of sta­ tions that are available to try to relate these well observed and well known meteorological measure­ mehts to stream flow. It is certain that this. will allow us to carry our period of observation beyond the period for which there are accurate stream flow data themselves and it will also per­ mit us to relate the flow of water in the particu­ lar basin that we are talking about, to relate that to the broader trends of weather over United States at large. Just to give you an example of how drastic some of these trends can be, I had Mr. McDonald of our staff prepare a couple of things. I didn't realize there were going to be so many of you here, it may be hard for you to see these, but I had him prepare two graphs showing, for two periods, the extreme differences that are known to occur in tempe rature over United States at large. These are average temperatures for the month of January and the one in my left hand deals with the period 1947, '48 and '49. In the red part of the graph is a region where the temperatures are warmer than normal so that you see in the eastern part of the United States, for those three years, temperatures were generally ranging about three· degrees warmer than normal; whereas in the west, over here centered in Utah, the temperatures were running about two degrees cooler than normal. Now this is related to a certain regime, if you will, a certain trend in upper atmosphere physics and it will show up in terms of changes of tempera- ture at the surface of the earth. This, on the other hand, is a graph for the period 1954, '55, '56 and '57. It is also temper­ atures for January and you see that the thing is quite opposite. Over here, where in the other period it was colder than normal, it is actually warmer than normal, the average temperature is four degrees warmer, whereas on the east coast the temperatures run about one to two degrees colder than normal. Now these represent very drastic changes in the general weather regime. The causes of these changes today are almost com­ pletely unknown but the second phase of the study

-6- and the first phase of the study will allow us to know how trends in surface data like tempera­ ture and pressure are related to the trends in the river flow. The third part of the study, which will be undertaken by the High Altitude Observatory at the University of Colorado, will be a basic re­ search effort to attempt to relate these trends to trends in a very, very high atmosphere. This becomes a speculative portion of the research, if you will. We are attempting in this part of the study, not to relate historical r e cords to stream flows, but to try to figure out what is the pro­ bability that the future history of stream flow will be completely different from anything that lies within our actual experience - anything that lies within the experience of any given weather station in the area. The weather stations, if I remembe r right, go back about seventy years, seventy years in the extreme. This will perhaps allow us to tell whether the coming seventy years or fifty years, will have values that are far more extreme than anything that has occurred in the past fifty years, based on the study of the very, very high atmosphere at the jet stream level. Now you all are familiar, I think, with this jet stream and with some of its variations. As we were driving over this morning, we saw what appears to be a strong jet stream developing over here right at the present time. When this jet stream develops sudden bends and goes far, far to the south, this produces a completely dif­ ferent weather regime from the weathe r regime that we have when this jet stream moves to the north. If the jet stream were to change its average position in the corning fifty years so it receded five hundred miles to the north, it would produce a drought the likes of which has never been seen over Colorado. Now we don't, at the present time, know just exactly why this jet stream bends to the south at certain times and why on the average, for ex­ ample last year, the jet stream was about three hundred miles south of the position it had in the 1954 period . We don't know why that was true. This portion of the research would attempt to investigate the r e lationship of the bends of this jet stream on the one hand, the relationship

-7- of this to the precipitation data in the second part of the study and the stream flow data in the first part of the study. It would also try to relate these things back to phenomena outside the earth. Now it is a very striking thing that the activity of the sun, for example, has changed in the past fifty years very markedly. At the turn of the century there were many fewer sun­ spots than there have been as we come past the middle of the century, on the average. The eruptions that occur on the face of the sun, like this one of which I brought a photograph along, this sudden outbreak here, these have been far more abundant in recent years than they were at the turn of the century, and the occur­ rence of enormous clouds of gas, some of you have seen the movie s that we make of these at Climax. The occurrence of these enormous promi­ nences, as we call them, shooting out from the sun have become much more frequent in recent years. It is also true that in recent years we have seen a change, an apparent change, in the regime of weather that has r esulted in an overall change in the temperature pattern of the United States of a very marked amount. As a matter of fact, this temperature change is going at such a rapid rate, has been going at such a rapid rate, in these fifty years, that if it were to continue it would alter the ice age conditions far more rapidly than is necessary to produce actually the normal advance or recession of an ice age. An ice age comes on when the temperature on the earth changes something like a tenth of a degree in a hundred, or maybe even a thousand, years on the average. But the temperature change now, in fifty years, has been almost three degrees. So you can see if that were to continue we would gallop far away from the present ice age that we are living in. Actually we are living in an ice age at the present time. We are living in a period about thirty per­ cent of the way from a true ice free period to a full period of the maximum advance of an ice age and if we were to recede farther from the ice age conditions, it would have a drastic effect on the climate of Colorado. What I am pointing out now is that our rate of change in this short term

-8- change of weather trend is far, far more rapid than the rate occurs actually, of progress toward the long term ice age, and this suggests that the future course may be very different from the past course viewed in the fifty year perspective. The sun's activity, as I said, is very high now, but we expect the sun's activities to de­ cline markedly in the years ahead. If we are right about this and if, in addition, we are right - some of us who suspect these things are related to changes of weather - then there is a very great possibility that in the period around 1975 we shall see in Colorado a drought greater than anything that has occurred in this century and possibly greater than anything that has oc­ curred in the past two or three hundred years. We may have a period of as much as six years in which the re will not be greater rainfall falling in the Denver area than something like six or seven inches. You can imagine what this will do to agriculture, to available water resources, and so on. Now I don't mean to say that at this moment we know this to be true. All I am saying is that basic research suggests that this is a possibility, and the third aspect of our research program here will be directed in part toward try­ ing to pin down the reality and likelihood of this possibility. I would like to point out that in this part of the research as in the others, and I think particularly in this, a great deal of support, far, far beyond the support that we are talking to you folks about here today, is already being received for the support of this research. In fact the High Altitude Observatory has been con­ ducting a program of research in which we have been spending about 75 or 100 thousand dollars a year investigating these trends alone but we have concentrated our efforts on areas east of Colorado . By undertaking this portion of the research we are offering to divert a portion of our efforts to solving the problems that are most important to us right he re close at home but the effort and the experience and the know­ ledge that we have gained in the related research in other parts of the country will all be immed­ iately available for support of this particular part of the r esearch. I think that we face the opportunity to do something that we have never attempted to do before, to study in an honest

-9- scientific way the most important resource in the State of Colorado - the flow of our streams. Thank you." MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you, Dr. Roberts." DR. GARNSEY: "We both would be glad to attempt to answer any questions that the members of the Board may have about our presentation or about our written proposal and I suggest that Dr. Roberts stand here by me near the microphone. Did you have a question, Mr. Sparks?"

MR. SPARKS: "No, I was just going to suggest that you be here to answer any que stions." MR. STAPLETON: "I would like to have you discuss the budget. Money is somewhat of a problem to everyone and I'd like to know about the budget and if there are any possibilities of contributions from Fed­ eral sources, etc. and what do you think our net result would be in terms of the outline." DR. GARNSEY: "First of all let me say that the cos~of this project, as best as we can estimate them at this time, is $106,957. Now of that amount the Univer­ sity of Colorado and Colorado State University will make substantial contributions by carrying the indirect and overhead costs of this research project from their own budget so that the sum of money we are asking from the Water Board ·is $79,228. Now from our point of view, the important thing to do is to get started on this project and carry it through, of course. So before we start we certainly would like to have all the money in sight. We have broken down the budget by time periods so that from the point of view of fiscal year budgets of the Water Conservation Board you can see that a part of the money would be expended in the current fiscal year and then two other large fractions of it in the next two fiscal years beginning July 1 of 1959, so that the total cost of $79,000 would be spread over three fiscal year periods. In addition., I feel that this project could very well attract support from other sources than the Water Board itself and what's more, if the contract is signed and under way, then it is a

-10- going concern and in a much better position to attract these funds than if it is entirely in the proposal stage. This is why we are asking the Water Board to take the initiative and first step to get the project under way. One very optimistic possibility for support comes from the Federal Government, from a bill introduced into the Congress recently by Senator Engel of California, by Senators Carroll and Allott and other Senators of the western states (perhaps they are all Democrats, I am not sure, I mentioned Senator Allott. He may not be a sponsor of this bill) and then by Congressmen from the Colorado River Basin. This bill pro­ vides for a research project on the supply of water in the Colorado River for a period of ten years with a budget of a million dollars a year. Personally I f eel that it is very important, not only to this project, but to the welfare of the State and the Board, that we have this proj­ ect well under way before this bill is passed and the money appropriated because then we would be in a highly strategic position to command a part of these funds for research and for this project rather than seeing the money diverted to the University of California or the Bureau of Recla­ mation or whatever, alone. The Bureau of Reclamation is another source of possible support and here again, once the project is definitely underway, I feel sure that the Bureau will have a very strong interest in it and would be willing to finance it. Finally, if you will look at the budget in detail you will see on the very last page, I'm sorry, not the last page, on the summary page - no, on the first page of the budget, the summary, we have broken down the budget amount by the three groups participating in the project and then we have added 550 station years of meteorological data for the other states in the upper basin which adds forty percent of the cost of the meteorologi­ cal analysis to the project. We have, in Colo­ rado, about 1450 station. years of data which can be analysed and about 550 station years of data in Utah, Wyoming and New Mexico where the stations are in the drainage of the Colorado River. It seems to me quite likely that the

-11- Upper Colorado River Basin Commission ought to pick up, or be interested in picking up, the tab for the analysis of the stations outside the boundaries of this State, or indeed it would appear to me a possibility that the Commission might carry the whole cost of the total project under the leadership of the Colorado Water Con­ servation Board. Have I answered your question?" MR. MOSES: "For the record, the bill that Dr. Garnsey refers to is H. R. 3704. I don't know what the number is in the Senate." DR. GARNSEY: "Which member of Congress introduced that one? Can you tell me ?" MR. MOSES: "Mr. Aspinall." DR. GARNSEY: "Mr. Aspinall. Mr. Byron Johnson has also introduced a companion bill in the House. It has a different number because of the House regu­ lations and then as I said, in the Senate, the Senate bill was introduced by Senator Engel and was sponsored jointly by other members of the Senate delegation from the western states." MR. STAPLETON: "I understand that Roger Chamberlain signed this report too. Is he in with you?" DR. GARNSEY: "Dr. Chamberlain is present." MR. STAPLETON: "Do you wish to have him say anything?" DR. GARNSEY: "Dr. Chamberlain, wouldn't you come to the microphone and be introduced? Dr. Chamberlain is engineer and acting director and chief of the Colorado State University Research Founda­ tion and he is going to be in charge of the meteorological analysis here on this campus, working with Dr. Schleusener the meteorologist in his division. Mr. Chamberlain." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "I would like to add to the comments of Dr. Robe rts and Dr. Garnsey that I personally also feel the extreme importance of this project to Colorado. However, I will not belabor that. I will simply give you a summary of what we are already doing in this ara:tso that you can gather that what we propose here jointly with C. U. is simply an extension of an existing capability.

-12- At the present time we have under way con­ tracts with the Soil Conservation Service and the U.S. Weather Bureau to put onto punch cards and analyse in a comparable manner to what is proposed here, certain aspects of it anyway, 15 stations for the eastern part of Colorado. This job has been pretty well done. So what we want to do now is to project our experience over onto the western side of Colorado with the ultimate objective of having available here on this campus all of the climatological data for every station of Colorado as it now exists and as it will be accumulated . With this stock of information in hand then any time we have the necessity for run­ ning any type of climatological analysis, we have all of the basic data already available on punch cards, IBM punch cards, which are of a permanent nature. So that indicates to you our experience in the field and our long term objective for the State of Colorado. If I can answer any othe r questions on our aspect of it I would be glad to do so." DR. GARNSEY: "I might make just one remark here about finances . When data are put on punch cards for a weather station which has not yet been analysed, then there is an exchange agreement among various scientific groups and we get from them punch cards for stations that have been analysed by a simple exchange of a copy of a set of the punch cards that we have. Perhaps Dr. Chamberlain could enl arge on that j ust a bit, but this means that we can get a lot of analysis of some sta­ tions without paying anything for it except the cost of running off a set of duplicate cards." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "To give you an idea of what we have here for such an arrangement, we have put on punch cards approximately two hundred thousand station days ; in other words we have two hundred thousand punch cards available and in return for providing these, the U.S. Weather Bureau provides us with an equal number of cards for stations in Colorado or wherever we ask, for years subsequent to 1948. In other words, we punch years prior to '48 and in return we get a copy of cards for data subse­ quent t o '48 free of charge. This works very nicely in our benefit."

-13- DR. GARNSEY: "Dr. Roberts did you have a remark about the budget?" DR. ROBERTS: "Yes. I was glad that Chamberlain mentioned the existing capability of C. S. U. in this and I think perhaps I failed to mention that the work also that would be undertaken at the High Alti­ tude Observatory extends an existing program in capability. We have just completed a four year study - in fact it will be completed in December of this year - a four year study supported by the American Oil Industry, by the Natural Gas Industry and by the Air Transport Operators (American Airlines, United Airlines, TWA and Continental) which has been a basic study of the relationship of upper atmosphe re wind to solar activity and things outside the earth. In this sense, we too are carrying on an existing capability with existing staff, exist­ ing data,and a great deal of the materials pre­ pared in this preceding work will be immediately available for this work at no additional cost. · In fact, I feel that the amount of money re­ quired to do this work would be more than doubled, and possibly even tripled, if it were not for the exist ence of the information and experience de­ rived from the previous studies. " MR. STAPLE1DN : "I would like to have questions from the Board." MR. MILLER: "I would like to ask this question. First of all on the first section of this proposal, what information would this study bring us that has not already been gathered by the Bureau of Reclamation or other Federal agencies?" DR. GARNSEY: "To my knowledge there is no Federal study of probability of flow of the Colorado River in existence. I have discussed this with the Bureau both this year and last year when I was on leave doing research at Harvard University. There is a study of probabil ity flow of the Colorado River which was done by Mr . Luna Leopold and this study was put before the court in Arizona v& California when Mr. Leopold testified as an expert called by California in this case . Since this t e stimony, of which we wer e able to receive a copy, he has published a U.S. G. S . bulletin extending the data on probability a slight distance but we feel

-14- that the study is incomplete and we will have to go beyond what he has done in probability. In order to explain this I would have to go pretty far into technical language that I don't know I could do myself without having a written analysis of the problem he r e before us. The Bureau hasn't done anything on this I am sure - virtually sure." MR. MILLER: "In the second section, Dr. Garnsey, is there any type of information available from the Weather Bureau or other sources that you propose using?" DR. GARNSEY: "Mr. Chamberlain I guess you bette r try to answer that." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "The re are other sources of information available from the Weather Bureau. For example, Arizona has a complete set of climatological data cards for their state and we have already set up our plans from other funding sources to determine exactly what Montana and Utah have available. We, of course, have complete access and do receive copies of all of the Weather Bureau's publica­ tions and their meteorological summaries, climato­ logical summaries, and so on." DR. ROBERTS: "Excuse me. I think: your question intended to ask whether the re were data on stream flow available from the Weather Bureau sources." MR. MILLER: "Perhaps I ought to explain my approach here. I think that as members of the Board, we ought not to pay for something that we can get some where else without paying money. What I want to be sure of here is that if this program is adopt­ ed, that we are not duplicating efforts that have been made by other agencies and getting informa­ tion that is already related." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "I think you can re st assured that one of the objectives of the personnel associated with this project, before they actually stick their necks out on new endeavors, is to make sure that the y have at their hands all available data. A good deal of this they are already ac­ quainted with and I don't think they'd miss too many places just on the basis of what they al­ ready know because these people are working in

-15- these three a.r eas that we ar e interested in here every day. This is their life's blood, to work on research in these particular problems and so as a consequence of that, they have to be right up to date on what's available and certainly they, just by their training, are well prepared to make use of all the free data that can be obtained." MR. STAPLETON: "I might ask anothe r question. I don't want to foreclose any other questions from the Board but if we came up with a r eport it would be one that would have to be accepted by everyone in Colorado as an unbiased impartial report. 'What would be your suggestion as to how you would report periodically to the Board and other in­ terested water users as to the progress, the problems, and so forth, that you ran into?" DR. GARNSEY: "We are prepared to report to the Board as often as it wishes. Probably in six months periods. Parts of this study, particularly the probability analysis, will be r eady, or parts of it will be r eady, quite early and we could report on this as it is related, say, t o the problem of filling Glen Canyon Dam well in advance of the ultimate need of that information for the fill­ ing program. The final r eport obviously would have to come at the end of this two years, but any data which were forthcoming from the analysis of some of the stations could, of course, be made avail­ able as it is brought together. I am correct in saying, am I not, Dr. Roberts, that the final analysis requires the integration of all three types of data and that final results would wait on the completion of the last part of the study." DR. ROBERTS: "Yes, particularly the part that we would be dealing with at the High Altitude Observatory which relates to the long term trends into the higher atmosphere. Some of the results of the first two portions of the study are necessary befor e the material can be compar ed with high atmospheric wind data and so I would presume that in that basic research portion of the material we would only be able to r eport what progress we were making, but we would not be able to report r esults until close to the end of the two year period."

-16- DR . GARNSEY: "Another thing I would like to say is that it is our hope that we can work very closely with the Director and the technical staff of the Water Board right along from the beginning. We don' t want to do this study in a way that we come in some day with a document and say well, here it is; we ' ve been up in our ivory towe r until now, and come out with it. On the contrary we wish to work ve ry closely with the engineering staff and the Director of the Board." MR . STAPLETON: "Are there any other questions from the mem­ bers of the Board? Mr. Nelson . " MR . NELSON : " I am not quite clear on what the other states have been doing and how this would f it into what they might be doing. Is there any i nfor mation on that?" DR . CHAMBERLAIN : " Ac t ually Arizona is the only one that has really progressed in their analysis, climatologi­ cal analysis . Montara.is doing some work under the r egional funds of the experiment station, the State Experiment Station that is up there. Utah has in mind, through the support of their State Highway Department, to do a little bit of work on the flood frequency and magnitude of small watersheds in Utah, but insofar as we have been able to determine so far, they are not now doing a significant amount of research that would contribute significantly to this project . " MR . NELSON : "We would then be doing something that they could use and we are paying the bill for it." DR . CHAMBERLAIN: "Actually we have the greater stake in this just by the distribution of the water for the uppe r basin. However, as Dr. Garnsey pointed out , we hope to get other agencies, such as the Bureau of Reclamation, the Upper Colorado River Basin and perhaps the forthcoming funds that have been r eferred to in this weathe r modifica­ tion act, which, by the way for the record, is Senate Bill No . 943, to paralle l the House bill . " DR. ROBERTS: " I think it' s only fair to say that we would be doing r esearch that could be used by other states, and in fact , by the entire nation, but in turn we would be building that r esearch on the basis of things that have been done else­ where whose benefits we would be incorporating

-17- into our work. I think, at least from my side, it would be dishonest to say that the things that we obtain here would not be immediately applicable in other areas. That's just part of the basic nature of scientific research. If you do something and publish it, it becomes of benefit to anybody who chooses to pick it up." MR. STAPLETON: "Are there any other questions from the mem­ bers of the Board? How about our guests at the meeting today - does anyone have any questions they would like to address to these gentlemen? Larry, do you have some comments you would like to make?" MR. SPARKS: "Possibly the one thing I think Mr. Miller mentioned about the studies of the Bureau of Reclamation. All the studie-s that either the Bureau does or that our staff does in connec­ tion with water supply, future water supply for any project, is based upon past stream flow. Now we all realize that that method is com­ pletely inadequate because we have not the faintest idea that the stream flow, we'll say, for the past twenty years is going to equal the stream flow for the next twenty. We are merely taking past history and assuming that that con­ dition will repeat itself within the next period of years that the past history concerned. That, to date,is the only method we have of projecting water supply availability for projects which we are now constructing or which we will construct in the future. As I stated, that is an extremely poor method. It is really not based upon scientific evidence of any type. It is merely based upon what has happened, and there is not too much probability that condi­ tions which existed within the past twenty years will r epeat themselves within the next twenty. So basically, the determination of future water availability for any project that we now have under contemplation or under construction is not based upon any real evidence as to the availability of that supply. It is merely a guess based upon past history."

-18- DR. ROBERTS: "May I supplement that remark? I would like to emphasize that because I think that ' s a t e rribly important point. If I were asked at this moment to make a guess as to what the future course of available water resources and the temperature and the strength of westerly winds (the drought producing winds that are so bad on the eastern plains), if I were asked to make a guess as to what the future thirty or forty year trend for the State of Colorado were to be , I would say that it would most likely be a r egime entirely different from the r egime of the first fifty years of the Twentieth Century, with a very great in­ crease in westerly flow and an increase probabil­ ity of dr ought. Howe ver, that's a guess . What we propose t o do he r e is to try to put some fi rmer scientific underpinning t o this kind of guessing." MR. STAPLETON: "Gentlemen, I thank you for your presentation. I would like to leave it this way for you, Dr. Garnsey. I am going t o ask the Director to con­ sult with his staff and make a report to the Board at his earliest moment . I know of the Governor' s deep interest in this project. We are anxiou s to get all the available sci entific data that we can. We want to go along on a basis t hat we can afford to pay that works in with our budget and meets with our r esponsibil­ ities to the Legislature and t he people of Colo­ rado . We will be reporti ng to you shortly. In the meantime we appreciate your presentation, the inte r est you have shown in what we think is Colorado ' s great problem and we do appreciate your coming ." DR. GARNSEY: "Thank you very much." MR. W.M.WILLIAMS: " Mr . Chairman, would you expect to give him an answer within thirty days? I notice that there was a schedule he r e to start on Ap ril 1st." MR. STAPLETON : "Our thought, La rry, would be to get some r ecommendation within that pe riod of time . Wouldn't that be correct?" MR. SPARKS : "The staff has already given it some thought and we will prepare and send a r ecommendation to the Board within the next t en days."

-19- DR. GARNSEY: "We would, of course, be glad to discuss with Mr. Sparks and the staff any aspect of this pro­ posal in any detail. To discuss the budget and possible revisions or modifications of the budget at their convenience. We are at their disposal for that purpose." MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you, Dr. Garnsey. What I want the Director to do is make sure that we coordinate all the efforts of every group in Colorado to the point that when we come through with the reports it will not be a duplication and will be accepted by all of us as a great advancement in this very great problem." DR. GARNSEY: "Thank you very much." MR. BARNARD, JR.: "Mr. Chairman." MR. STAPLETON: "Mr. Barnard." MR. BARNARD, JR.: "This is perhaps presuming on what will hap- pen when the recommendation is made. I would like to comment very briefly that while we have started to get funds for necessary immediate engineering and legal studies on particular emergency problems, I think personally that one of the most serious defects· in our past programs has been the lack of basic research. While I would hate to see any interference with programs that are of an immediate urgency and of an ex­ treme practical nature, I urge very strongly that we make every effort to bring about the institu­ tion of this program of basic research." MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you Mr. Barnard. I am sure that the speakers know of our genuine interest and we just want to coordinate this along proper lines. This introduction should have been first and I apologize that we got into the meeting a little early but I would like at this time to introduce Mr. Terre ll who is Secretary of the Colorado Watershed Association and to have him introduce to us his boss and our host for the day, the President of the Colorado State Uni­ versity." MR. TERRELL: "Thank you Mr. Stapleton. It is a pleasure to introduce to you President Morgan, President of Colorado State Unive rsity. He was delayed by

-20- reason of a long distance t elephone call and couldn't get here sooner. Is this the balance of your prepared program?" MR. STAPLETON: "No. We have a Water Investigation Com­ mission report, then we will go into the "Water­ hole" but I thought maybe at this time, the President is probably a busy man, we would like to just hear a few words of greeting from him." MR. TERRELL: "Fine. Then it is with a great deal of pleasure that I introduce to you President Mor­ gan, President of Colorado State Univerity."

PRES • MORGAN : " Mr. Chairman, members of the Board and visitors, I feel obliged to say something that is worth recording and I'm afraid I don't just have it in me at this sudden notice. Mr. Terrell explained to you the reason for my not being here to greet you when you arrived at t en o ' clock. I was sorry about that but I am sure that the same thing happens to you when you have been held up by telephone calls . If you haven' t learned about it, there is a Legislature in session at the moment. You have been talking money matters this morning so I think you can put those two comments together and r ealize what I was discus­ sing on the telephone . For sometime we he r e at this institution have been anxious to have the Board hold one of its meetings on this campus in the hope that it would become a habit and that at least once a year you would schedule one of your regular meet­ ings here. Why? Because we are an institution that has a very great stake in your program and we are an institution engaged in training people who will do things that are determined by your program; and finally, we are an institution with the capability for conducting some of the type of research that you have heard explained in this project here in the last half hour. I think with respect to the latter I will just l e t Mr. Barnard make my speech. If you would just r epeat at this place in your record­ ing what he had to say a moment ago about the importance of developing basic information some ­ times before you see the immediate need for using basic information because you never can just turn the crank and get it in a hurry when you need it in a hurry. Some of these things need to be done

- 21 - we ll in advance of their need and bodies like this need to under take some of these projects as much on faith as they do on the basis of immed­ iate need. Our research at this institution involves principally the kind of research that is aimed at solving or answering some immediate que s t ions and always, I would say weekly, we struggle with the p r oblems introduced by our not having gather ed back in the days when it might have been gat hered, infor mation that is needed now; or not having conducted back in the days when it might ·have been conducted, resear ch that helps explain the basic issues involved in some of these problems. So i t is our hope that your Boar d and that other public agencies of similar character will, from time to time, leave Denver (I know how conven- ient it is to meet down there, especial ly for a group whose membership is drawn from all over the State) and will make it a point to meet on the campuses of these institutions which collectively for m the underpinning of , if you please, the future of this State . It is in that vein that I extend to you a most cor dial welcome to our campus today and ex­ press to you my thanks for your willingness to come up here and to devote a good deal of your time to just the matter of l ooking at some facil­ ities i n a particular area and determining for yourselves how those facilities might fit into the research part of the program that you people must administer. I understand that you are going to devote fully half your time to that project and we are just awfully happy that you are going to do it. If you haven ' t already done it on the campus of the University of Colorado, I woul d hope that you would do it there next . Thank you ve ry much for coming. It is a joy to have you here . " MR . STAPLETON : " Thank you ve ry much, President Morgan. On behalf of the members of the Board, I can tell you how pleased we are to be here and if you have seen our meeting rooms down in Denver, I can tell you we may accept a monthly invitation to come up here. " MR . NELSON : " Are we going to continue our agenda?"

-22- MR. STAPLETON: "Yes we are. The next item on the agenda is the report of the Water Investigation Com­ mission and Larry, who will make that report?" MR. SPARKS: "I believe Bob Barkley." MR. BARKLEY: "Mr. Chairman, members of the Board. I can't resist making one remark at the outset. Some months ago, in fact a year or more ago, the Water Congress suggested to the Colorado Water Conser­ vation Board the thought that it might well hold meetings of this Board in various areas throughout the State merely to let the people of this State know how important the work of this Board is and they commenced that by meeting in Durango last summer. Personally I want to, certainly not be­ cause of being an alumnus of this institution, Doctor, but I think it is real nice they are meeting up here and I hope they'll continue their efforts to meet in various places over the State along that line. Gentlemen you recall at your December meet­ ing, I believe it was, when the Investigation Com­ mission suggested the item which was brought to your attention, of the official comments of the Water Conservation Board on the codification and revision of national reclamation laws, we felt at that time that that was a matter of immediate urgency. It now turns out it is not quite, in terms of time, as urgent as it then appeared. We had the opportunity, in the last week of January, of discussing with the Under Secretary of the Interior and the Solicitor of the Bureau of Recla­ mation the matter of giving some aid to this Board in shortening the time necessary to review that rather voluminous mass of material that it takes for codification and revision of the entire body of reclamation law. It turns out that most of the leg work for that codification committee of the National Reclamation Association has been very largely done by the Solicitor of the Bureau of Reclamation, one Mr. Edward Fisher. Periodically it is necessary for Mr. Fisher to come to Denver any way and both the Under · Secretary and Mr. Fisher, himself, indicated that he would be very happy, at a time convenient to him when he will be in Denver within the next month or two, to take a day or two and spend it with the attorneys whom we recommended that this

-23- Board employ for a few days' time to go through that body of material and prepare, in your behalf, the official comments of the State of Colorado. I understand from him that that is a matter that he can cover with those four gentlemen, (you will recall that we suggested Hatfield Chilson, Jack Hughes, Jack Clayton and Charles Beise) all because those four are very familiar at the outset with some of the work involved in that particular item and I think you can anticipate that it can be done at far less cost in the manner suggested. We are very appreciative of the fact that the Interior Department will give you that much of their time and aid in getting the job done. The second item the Investigation Commission has to refer to - you will recall at your last meeting that you had distributed to you a copy of a preliminary document which was prepared by your special legal committee which you employed at the instance of the Investigation Commission, in re­ viewing the Colorado River Compact, the Boulder Canyon Project Act, the Boulder Canyon Project Adjustment Act and the power contracts at Hoover Dam. That work had progressed to the point where, at your last meeting, the preliminary document was made available to you. We suggested at that time that you authorize your Director to utilize the services of Mr. McClellan as the consultant to carry the study one step further in the analy­ sis of the power contracts and particularly as those might relate to the position which has been taken by California in reference to the reduction of power through the construction of Glen Canyon Dam on the Colorado River. The stage of that has now reached this point. The final copies have not yet been distributed to the Investigation Commission so that the Commis­ sion as a whole has had opportunity to go through the document in full. Your committee has contin­ ued its work. Mr. McClellan, the staff of your own Board on the hydrology, together with Mr. Millen from the Public Service Company of Colo­ rado, have pressed on with the analysis of those power elements that were involved in the question and have arrived at the stage now where,at least in terms of our own discussion and prior to the opportunity for you gentlemen to have a look at the report itself, I think I can safely make this

-24- promise. We feel that you will have available to you a document which covers historically the things that have gone into the makeup of the Colo­ rado River Compact and the various documents to which I have referred, that gives to this Board an historical treatise which lets you know what the position of Colorado should be. I think there is no question that it supports the resolution which the Board suggested to the Colorado Commissioner for presentation to the Upper Basin Commission. I feel there is a good possibility that the Board will want to consider the publication and wide distribution of that report since it is put together pretty largely in laymen's language so that people of the State of Colorado will have a document from its official State agency related to water policy in reference to the Colorado River and one in which I think you will be able to take a great deal of pride and most certainly you will no longer be in the position which John, Jr. has frowned on several different times in comment by saying that at one meeting or another where repre­ sentatives of the Board, the Attorney General's office or even the Governor has had to say 'We haven't got the information at hand. We have got to analyze further to have something available'. It will give to you a document, I think, on which you will be perfectly willing to stand. With those comments, I think there are per­ haps some details that have gone into the amend­ ments of the document you received at your December meeting and some comments regarding the power analy­ sis that have been done since that time, that can better be made directly from your legal committee represented by John Barnard, Sr. and perhaps by Mr. Keith Millen in reference to the power angles of the problem. John do you want to take it from there?"

MR. BARNARD, SR.·: "Mr. Chairman and members of the Board as Mr. Barkley has reminded you, at a previous meeting, I think the last meeting of the Board, you were provided with what was t e rmed a preliminary report relative to the criteria to be adopted to govern the impounding of water in Glen Canyon Reservoir during its filling period and which also estab­ lished what we feel to be the proper criteria for the operation of Glen Canyon Reservoir when filled.

-25- At that meeting, as Mr. Barkley has said, after it was called to your attehtion, the fact that the report lacked detailed technical data concerning the hydrology phase of the situation on the generation of power at both Glen Canyon and Hoover Dam, you directed that Mr. McClellan be made available for the purpose of participat­ ing in those further studies. I want to emphasize the fact that the pre­ liminary, as is stated in it repeatedly, was a preliminary report and it was gotten up and sub­ mitted at that time for the reason ·that we antici­ pated that certain conferences and meetings would be held before this time which would require that our representatives have at least some basic in­ formation on the subject. That has not developed and I don't know why. However, since that meet­ ing, the staff of the Board, Mr. McClellan whom this Board made available and Mr. Keith Millen and Mr. L. R. Patterson of the Public Service Company whom that company voluntarily made avail­ able, have, I think I can safely say, completed these technical studies. The situation now is at a point where we are in process of submitting to the Board, or prepar­ ing for submission to the Board, of what, perhaps, for want of a better title, I'll call a final re­ port. Now it may not come out with that sort of title. I think perhaps Larry Sparks should have some voice in saying what the title of that thing should ultimately be. It is, in effect, a treatise on the subject which covers, so far as we can ascer­ tain, all of its phases and again in connection with the preliminary report and this one which will shortly be forthcoming, I should like to impose on your time to read the closing paragraph of the letter from me which accompanied the report. I said 'It is believed that this preliminary report will support in every essential detail the present policy of the State of Colorado relative to the impounding of water in the holdover storage reser­ voirs during both the filling period and the subse­ quent long range operation thereof, as such policy is given expression in the resolution of the Board adopted September 17, 1958, and by Edwin C. John­ son, Upper Colorado River Commissioner for Colo­ rado, submitted to the Upper Colorado River Commis­ sion at Santa Fe, New Mexico on September 24, 1958. It is not at all probable that subsequent study,

-26- research and investigation will develop any facts or data which will lead to a different conclusion', artd I want to say now that that subsequent investi­ gation has not led to a different conclusion but has thoroughly solidified the conclusion we reached and that is that the r~solution of this Board, adopted in September of 1958, in advance of the information which the Board should then have had, exactly states an accurate position upon which Colorado can stand, upon which we believe it must stand, and which, we believe, is supported by all of the studies that have been made. Now another little preliminary comment. The studies in connection with the Colorado River, and particularly the Glen Canyon filling, were not the end objective of the setting up of the Investiga­ tion Commission. It was a task which was felt by everyone should be tackled at once, in view of the fact that at the present time it is the criti­ cal problem for the State of Colorado. Until this time we had assumed, and I think we are safe in assuming, that we will have controversies with other states involving conferences among their officials, hearings before the appropriate com­ mittees of Congress and, perhaps, in the Supreme Court of the United States, and it was in an ef­ fort to prepare for those eventualities that we have attempted to hurry up this work and to ar­ rive at our conclusions. Therefore, the plan that we have in mind at this time is this. Mr. Kuiper and Mr. Gilder­ sleeve and the other members of the staff of the Water Conservation Board have had in hand the hydrological studies and I want to take this occa­ sion to say that they have done a mighty good job in their analysis. As stated before, Mr. McClellan, Mr. Millen and Mr. Patterson have had in their charge the electrical studies and they have done an equally good job. Their reports are now not complete, but in a form to be made complete if you understand what I mean. We propose now to submit a final report to the Board consisting of two parts: first is what I will term the text of the report; and second are the appendices. The text, as has been stated by Mr. Barkley, will be couched in language which, for example, as far as engineers are concerned we laymen can understand and so far as engineers are concerned, as to the legal aspects, they, as laymen, will understand,

-27- and those who are not trained in either field will be able to follow. The appendices will con­ tain the detailed technical data. For example, I wouldn't like for this report from Mr. McClellan consisting of several pages to find its way into the text and have to be waded through in reaching your final conclusion. So far as the first part of the report is concerned, the historical analysis and the factual background, there will be little, if any, change from the preliminary report. Possibly some few additions. Governor Johnson has suggested some changing in wording which he thinks strengthens it and that will be incorporated in it. Possibly some other observations may be included. That will be decided ias we dictate it. For example, in digressing a little, I bec~me interested to know why the State of Colorado, through its Water Con­ servation Boardi ~o strongly supported the Boulder Canyon Project Adjustmeht Act . Now apparently California's contention is somewhat based upon the conclusion that the Boulder Canyon Project Adjust­ ment Act required some broadening of the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to enter into these power contracts. So I r ead the proceedings before the Insular and Interior Affairs Committee in 1939, at which proceedings Judge Stone appeared and testified, as did also representatives of the other basin states and there was unanimity of agreement among them. Colorado, incidentally, supported it largely because the Project Act set up a river development fund to come .into existence only after Hoover Dam cost was entirely paid off, which might be fifty or seventy-five years hence, and we didn't want to wait that long to find out what could be more valuable for Colorado. The Adjustment Act provided that that fund be set up immediately and be paid out of power r evenues. In the course of the discussion some very pertinent questions were asked on cross-examina­ tion. I think by the Congressman from Utah, as I recall it, of a Mr . Scattergood who represented the power interests of southern California and of Judge Stone who represented this Board and that question was 'Under the Adjustment Act, how will the commitment of the upper basin to deliver water at Lee Ferry be effected? Will it be increased?' And Mr . Scattergood and Judge Stone and all of the other witnesses agreed that under the Adjustment

-28- Act, that the Adjustment Act comprehended only the by-passing at Lee Ferry of the amount of water re­ quired by the compact to be by-passed, and not more . California agreed to that proposition to secure the passage of the Adjustment Act which was very much to its benefit. So the work of the committee is not ended, you understand, with this report . We must con­ tinue to build up support for the propositions that are made in the report . But that's inci- dental more or less. Now I said a moment ago that this report will support the position taken by the State of Colo­ rado in the Water Board' s resolution of September, 1958, and in bringing that out a little more strongly and in explaining to you a little more fully what we propose as to the ' get up'of this final report, I want to ask Mr . Kuiper briefly to relate what he and the staff have ascertained so far as the hydrological aspects of this filling period are concerned. Then I will ask Mr. Millen to give you a synopsis of the results of the power studies. Then I want to conclude by asking the Board to give us certain instructions. " MR. KUIPER: "To prepare this hydrologic report in deter­ mining the resulting electrical energy that could be produced at Hoover Dam during the filling period, I want to emphasize that this is not a period which completely fills Glen Canyon but is only the period required to accumulate 17,000, 000 acre feet total storage in Glen Canyon which is the full power head at Glen Canyon. From there on out the operation becomes something else. In order to do that, certain assumed criteria had to be established both for the operation of Glen Can­ yon and for the operation at Hoover Dam. The criteria that was used for Glen Canyon was first to meet Article III (d) of the Colorado River Com­ pact which we assumed to be the release of 75,000,000 acre feet over any consecutive ten year period. Then we would produce power at Glen Can­ yon to meet the amortization requirement contained in the financial and economic analysis published by the Bureau of Reclamation in 1958 . In that analysis, if you will remember, they indicated the total power that must be produced by the Upper Colorado River Storage Project. The amount of power that had to be produced by Glen Canyon then was arrived at by a ratio of the power at Glen

-29- Canyon to the other power units within the project and from that we came out with an annual require­ ment for power to be produced at Glen Canyon to meet the amortization schedule established for it in that document. Then we assumed that after the storage at Glen Canyon reaches 7.2 million acre feet which is the dead storage, that no releases below 7.2 million acre feet would be made under any circum­ stances after it had reached that point. Of course, after that's closed, why then it would not be possible to make releases below that. After stor­ age at Glen Canyon reaches 17 million acre feet, we assumed that we would not draw below 17 million except to meet Article III (d) of the Compact, whatever that might be for any particular year. These were conducted under one hydrologic cycle, 1922-1957, then we equated within that cycle 1922-1962 as a period when the flows were good initially; 1930-1962 was a period when the initial flows were poor; 1942-1962 was a period when the initial flows were what we consider to be average, whatever that may be. We come up with all kinds of averages in the flows of the Colorado River at any point along it. Now under those assumptions in those criteria, then we passed the water on through Glen Canyon to see what power could be produced and to see if we could meet the amortization schedule. In the 1930 equals 1962 period, we do find that it would be necessary to make some changes in the defini­ tion of firm and secondary power at Glen Canyon in order to meet the amortization schedule. For some reason, in other documents that have been published by the Bureau, in the later years there is a considerable amount of secondary power that is produced at Glen Canyon and of course that is sold at a considerably lesser price than the firm power is sold. That power in later years can be produced at a steady rate and it would seem · to me that it would be certainly no insurmountable problem to get that definition changed as to what is firm power at Glen Canyon and what is secondary in order to meet the amortization schedule under the provisions of the compact. As you go to 1942 equals '62, that differen­ tial decreases and when you get to '22 equals '62

-30- it disappears so that we made these three studies, none of us will even allege that any one of these periods will occur after Glen Canyon is filled. They are simply presented as an indication of what will happen if they occur. That is all we can say for it. Now at Hoover, the assumptions we made were that we would produce, or rather first we would make releases to satisfy the downstream require­ ments below Hoover Dam, all of the downstream re­ quirements and those were assumed to be 8 million acre feet. After that criteria is satisfied, we would produce contract firm energy when the water was available but if Hoover was ever drawn down to 22 million acre feet total storage, then from there on out, releases would only be made in the amount of 8 million acre f eet to satisfy the down­ stream consumptive use requirements and, of course, that produced the quantities of water annually that could be passed through the power plant at Hoover and those figures were given to Mr. McClellan to analyze them on what the effect this reduction in energy that would be generated at Hoover would have on the amortization schedule that is set up for the amortization of Hoover Dam and also on the power contract. There is no point - as under these criteria and only filling of 17 million acre feet - of try­ ing to kid ourselves that there is going to be any benefits accrue to Hoover Dam by withholding 17 million acre feet in Glen Canyon. That is simply 17 million acre feet that will not go through the generators at Hoover and I don't see how you can say that would do Hoover any good so that we must admit that the re is no benefit to Hoover from that standpoint and not necessarily any benefit to the nation as a whol e except as they will reflect in later operations at Glen Canyon. Of course, later operations when Glen Canyon is full, then every drop of water that goes through the generators at Glen Canyon will also go through the generators at Hoover Dam and will naturally result in a greater production of relatively low cost el ectri­ cal energy for the· area and the r e will be some national benefits there. Over a long range period and assuming that the flows may be such as they have been in the past, there can be some benefits accrue to Hoover

-31- Dam over the long haul . There will be some reduc­ tion in the sediment load deposited at Hoover Dam and f r om the re, of course, at any time when the flow in a series of successive years would be such that spill would have to be effected at Hoover from it, that water could be impounded i n Glen Canyon and the additional rive r r egulation would accrue as a benefit to Hoover Dam as well as to the upper basin." MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you, Mr. Kuiper." MR • BARNARD, SR . : "I want to make this comment befor e we ask Mr . Mi llen to tell you what they have discovered briefly and that is that ce rtain questions, or we sought answer s to certain que stions in making these studies; first for our own information as to the benefits to be derived to us from the filling of Glen Canyon and se cond, to meet certain contentions which have been made by the lower basin states with regard to the disastrous effects on those states of the withhol ding of water at Gl en Canyon and among them is the contention we ' ve heard that, as a r esult of withholding water at Glen Canyon, we woul d r educe the power which could be generated at Ho over to such a point that the ir amortization schedul e could not be met and second, that it would result in an increase in rates, power rates, at Hoover which would put it beyond what you might t erm a competitive basis. In othe r words, it would price the Hoover power out of the market . We , I think, have found the answers to that and I would l ike to have Mr . Millen tell you in general what those results are . " MR. MILLEN : " John I hesitate t o discuss at any l ength the e l ectri c aspect of this study for the reason that Mr. McClellan and I have not had a final oppor­ tunity to nail down some of the precise figures as they are r elated to laying down thermal stations in southern California to determine break even costs. I had hoped to talk with him yesterday but unfortunately had to l eave a little early and didn' t have a chance to talk this out. Ours has been a very minor role in contribut­ ing to this study, I want to say that, but it has been mo st interesting for us and we are pleased to offer this assistance . I will not attempt to dwell at any l ength on this very thorough study that Mr . McClellan has made . I will say, however, that as a r esult of Len' s hydrol ogy studies they have formu­ lated what we may have t o do in the way of increas­ ing ener gy rates a t Hoover which we know can be

-32- done by the Project Adjustment Act of '41 in order to meet pay out schedules and the answer we sought was was this feasible, could we stay within the framework of economic rate structures at Hoover and still meet their payout schedule with curtail­ ment. As I say, I hesitate to quote precise figures because we have made some slight changes in the cost of thermal stations laid down in southern Califor­ nia which effect its break even cost but if I may, I will refer to just one paragraph in Mr. McClellan's study which is more or less the meat of this thing in which he states that the analysis of cost of substitute fuels producing energy in southern Cali­ fornia steam stations indicates that the cost of firm energy from Boulder Canyon Project after the the rates for firm energy have been adjusted to compensate for curtailment of energy generated due to withholding water to fill Glen Canyon Reservoir would still be from - and the figures here are sub­ ject to a slight adjustment - I think perhaps we can say that they will still be within a margin of break even of six tenths of a mill to 1.8 mills per kilowatt hour below the cost of substitute energy generated in the southern California steam electric stations. This is the answer that we hoped to achieve; that we can still show feasi­ bility for adjusting rates at Hoover and not come up above anything that might be feasible for them to pay. It appears now perhaps we can still up the rates, meet pay out schedules with whatever cur­ tailment we must effect to fill Glen and still have their rates from .6 to 1.8 mills per kilowatt hour below the cost of laying down substitute sta­ tions in southern California. I would like to de­ f e r, just with that statement, this morning." MR. BARNARD, SR.: "I was anxious for the Board to have that gen- eral result - that the contention of California to the effect that they can't increase these rates sufficiently and· stay within competitive limits is just plain hooey, if you will pardon the expression. Now with that information, i t is hoped, and again referring to the possibilities that in the near future, before another meeting of this Board, there will be occasion for our representatives, the Governor or the Director of this Board, or others,

- 33 - to participate in discussions and conferences and perhaps hearings before Congress, the Investigation Commission feels that we should get this thing finalized as promptly as possible and our program is something along this line, that Mr. McClellan, Mr. Kuiper and I, at least, and perhaps the others if they can find the time, will dictate the text which will be substituted for the text that is found in your preliminary report. These gentlemen will go over their data, possibly amend it, at least check it, verify it and within the next two weeks we will be ready for this thing to be repro­ duced. It is proposed, as I say, to have the text, eliminating as much technical language as we can from the text, then to attach three appendices. I still would like to see our map of the early Cochella and Imperial Valleys appended to this final report because it gives us information we didn't have before. That will be one appendix, the second appendix will be Mr. Kuiper's analysis of the hydrological matter and the third will be the electrical studies. Those will be ready for reproduction within or by the middle of week after next, I would say. Now the question which I think the Board should pass on, first is whether or not you have any criticisms or suggestions of that proposed program. I can see no point in again submitting it to the Board before it is finalized and we · could lose valuable time in doing it. Second, how do you want this reproduced - do you want it printed, do you want it mimeographed, how widely do you want it disseminated and questions of that sort. I just want to add this comment, Mr. Chair­ man. As I envision it, this report should merely be one - the first one - in a series of comparable studies. For example, we need, I think, a similar study, or conducted along similar lines, of the Rio Grande situation. I'll not be satisfied until there is a complete study of that thing down in the San Juan Basin with the Indian rights pretty much in the foreground. There are important things to be considered in that study so we would like to be directed now by the Board how to proceed and when and why."

-~ 34 - MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you, John and Bob, for your repqrts. First of all I would say as far as the Board is concerned, we are delighted and very appreciative of the work your conunittee has done so far. Are there any criticisms? That's what Mr. Barnard asked for, he hasn't asked for our accolade which he always knows we are giving to him and the members of the committee. Are there any comments anybody has to make at this time? · May I suggest, unless Larry has a different idea, that the report be mimeographed in its initial phase with the idea in mind that perhaps it should be printed later and distributed fur­ ther. I would think, as far as I was concerned, that we ought to take a look at it in its mimeo­ graphed form before it is widely disseminated. Would you agree to that, Larry?" MR. SPARKS: "I think that would be fine, Ben, because actually, unless we get into a thousand copies or so, we can do about as good a job mimeographing as we can printing and at a much cheaper expense." MR. STAPLETON: "John, what is going on in the abstract of the Arizona vs. California case? I may have missed that in your r eport. That was one of your objec­ tives." MR. BARNARD, SR.: "We have been a little too busy, Ben, with this thing to tackle that as yet. That is some­ thing I want to talk to Mr. Sparks about during · this week when I am down in Denver. I might add, also, that the abstract of the proceedings of the Colorado River Conunission is now in a position to be completed and duplicated. We have all the work done on it but that also was put aside in an ef­ fort to get this report out." MR. STAPLETON: "Thank you· John. I would just like to report for the record, that Mr. Peterson asked the esti­ mated cost of carrying the report on further so that money can be appropriated by this Board. I refer to page 17 of our las t minutes. Mr. Sparks informs me that this work has been and will be carried out with the appropriation that has al­ ready been made. Gentlemen, time is of the essence as we engi­ neers say, and we have a premiere performance of a motion picture entitled the "Last Waterhole"

- 35 - produced by Colorado State University. This will take twenty minutes and we will be almost on time for an adjournment at noon. What would be the plan after lunch? We would meet whe re?" MR. SPARKS: "We will r econvene here at 1 : 30 ." MR. STAPLETON : "We will reconvene her e at 1:30 . The members of the Board have been i nvited to lunch by the President of the University. We are delighted to be here and accept, so the members, immediately after· the film, the luncheon is down on the first floor, in the southeast corner of this building. Are we all set now? Maybe some of you would like to r earrange your chairs so that you can see this film better." Af t er the showing of the film, the meeting r ecessed until 1:30 P. M. MR. STAPLETON: " Gentlemen, we will come to order now. I might ask if there are any visitors here who have not put their name on our list, we would appreciate it if you would do so before we leave. In just a minute now we are going to turn the r est of the day over to the Colorado State Univer­ sity for a tour of their facilities and I would like to ask the Board first of a ll if they have anything they would like to bring up at this meeting?"

MR. NELSON: " I would like to ask Mr . Spar ks if he knows if there is anything to the rumors of the adminis­ tration cutting back the inve stigation budget be­ l ow that announced in January?" MR. SPARKS: "We have had no word to that effect, Mr . Nel- son." MR. NELSON·: " There are rumors in at least two branches of Government service that that is being done and I wondered if it was going to effect our program." MR. SPARKS : "We , of course, have heard those rumors but it has been difficult t o pinpoint them. If the investigation funds are cut back for the Colorado River Storage project program, it means that the State of Colorado, in order to keep the present pace going, is going to have t o put up some money. "

- 36 - MR. NELSON: "The amount that I heard was being cut back is more than we can afford to put up."

MR. SPAR."KS: "Well, that's very true and in all probability we are going to have to establish a priority on certain projects to support to the extent of our available funds. I think it is a little early to say at this time, because all indications I can get from Congress on the sentiment of Congress is that the r e is not going to be any cut back as far as they are concerned." MR. STAPLETON: "Any further matters that the Board would like to t ake up? Ar e there any things that any of our guests would like to bring up? Mr . Knights, do you have anything you would like to say at this time?" MR. KNIGHTS: " No , I believe not, Ben . Thank you." MR. STAPLETON: "If not, I would like to then turn the rest of the day and the r est of our program over to -­ Dr. Chamberlain wi ll you be handling this?" DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "I will be in charge of the tour, yes. " MR. STAPLETON : " This is the focal point of our me eting today and I would like then to turn the meeting over to Dr. Chamberlain and we will now follow the direc­ tions of our hosts for the r est of the day." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: " I don't know whether I want this to go on tape or not . What we will do from here i s that first of all I will give you a summary of the program that we have under way in civil engineer­ ing, particularly as it relates to wate r, then Dr. Dils will give you a summary of the program for which he is responsible and with which he is asso­ ciated, particul arly the Rocky Mountain Forest and Range Experiment Station, and so on. Those programs in civil engineering and re­ search are organized under two programs, the experiment station and our CSURF . The delinea­ tion between these two structures is simply this: that under the experiment station we receive money partially from the State and partially f r om the Federal Government. Under the CSURF aspect of it~ the Colorado State University Research Foundation, we administer all of our work that is done for outside agencies on contract or grant basis . In other words, for the moneys that we have available

- 37 - for research under CSURF, we get out and sell our capability in the way that you say this morn­ ing, for example. Under this operation we have a series of programs that I will touch on in passing and then come back and give you brief detail. I'll give you the location of the support for the programs, where we get our money in other words, some back­ ground on the staff that we have available and engaged in this work and then some closing re­ marks. Coming back to the programs that we are engaged in, they can be divided up as follows: 1. Alluvial Channel Hydraulics. This program is concerned primarily with hydraulic aspects of all types of channels where the bed or bound­ aries of the channel can be expected to move or erode, due to the action of rain drops, the stream flows, run off, etc. Then we have another program under our cate­ gory of General Hydraulics. Under General Hydrau­ lics we include such things as the work we are doing on the Titan Missile, the pyrogenics field. We also include the work we are doing on dredge pumps, the transport of gilsonite, such things as this.

We have a program in forest media and fluid mechanics. Under this one we include drainage, the relation of surface and subsurface problems, petroleum technology, multiphase flow in your petroleum reservoirs, and so on, meteorology and climatology, and this is where the program that we discussed this morning fits in. Then a program in micrometerology which is largely wind tunnel type of thing and you will see the wind tunnel this afternoon as part of your tour and then one in Naval hydrodynamics. This one is one which you might say is completely unrelated to what we are doing in our other areas. However, as you will see the thing and as I will explain it later, it is quite closely related. In backing up now on these specific programs that I have mentioned, the first of them Alluvial Channel Hydraulics . In this program we are en­ gaged in research on stable channels. In other

- 38 - words, how can you design canals and other hydrau­ lic conveyance systems so that they stand up over the test of time? Civilizations are, or at least some historians say that they are, inclined to rise and fall depending upon what happens to their irrigation systems. Erosion control, the develop­ ment of structures that will control erosion, the development of cropping practices that will con­ trol erosion and various other aspects of it. Also a major program on highway hydraulics for this interstate highway system. We have been working on this for a little over five years now. The scour and so on, that takes place when you have an alluvial channel that frequently causes these multimillion dollar bridges to fall. And then another program that, unfortunately perhaps, is of direct benefit to California as much or more as it ic to Colorado, is a program on the use of sediments ~o line canals in order to prevent seepage, bentonite lining projects. This program is much more a~tive in Wyomi ng and California than it i s in Colorado at the present time. In General Hydraulics we have something over a quarter of a million tied up under con­ tract with the Titan Missile, liquid oxygen, liquid nitrogen, and so on. Dredge pumps. We are serving Colorado and Nebraska industry in r esearch associated with the motion or transport of solid materials . This is· important in that it i s directly r elated to, say, using the hydraulic method of construction of earth filled dams, for example. Flow measuring devices is a major program here. We have,at the present time, r esearch going on on six different types of flow metering devices. Model studies are a very large segment of our program. These are, to a large extent, ap­ plied research. However, ~,ri th eve:ry applied re­ search project, we tie in a certain amount of fundamental research that will be of benefit to the profession a::; a wl:0::..2. The model study pro­ gram is largely for interest outside of the con­ tinental boundaries of the United States; however at the present time 'tr:e do have one, a spillway

-39- for the second stage of the Dillon Dam for the Denver Water Board that is of local interest. Then we have a computer and certain programs associated with it. One of them is just getting under way and that is the development of program­ ming technique for the design of arched dams, such as, say, Glen Canyon and Hoover by computer tech­ nique. Forest media, fluid mechanics, drainage, we have three problems under way, projects. Mort Bittinger, who is sitting back here, and I believe he has worked quite closely with Mr. Gildersleeve of your Board, is engaged in a program down here near Ft. Lupton. He has also been working over in the Bijou area, the relationship be tween surface flows and ground water and the associated economics which our Economic Department is working on. Also we have· a considerable program, indus­ trially supported, in fluid mechanics of petroleum reservoirs. This is associated with the economic development of the State. We have to have water for the support of this petroleum industry. We are attempting to uncover a good deal of the funda­ mental information that is necessary in order that petroleum be recovered in larger volume within the boundaries of the State. Of course, this has direct application to other areas too. The meteorology and climatology programs I discussed to a certain extent this morning. How­ ever, there are two that I did not mention. One on flood frequency and magnitude of small water­ sheds in the immediate proximity of the front range. This one is being supported by the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads and you will not see any experimental apparatus this afternoon associated with it. It is largely a computer and office type of program. Another program that we are attempting to get off the ground and there are representatives here from the National Science Foundation today discussing it with us, is an evaluation of a hail suppression program for eastern Colorado. This, if it goes through, will be about a five year pro­ gram of fundamental research that will be of direct benefit to Colorado and tied in with it, we will associate r esearch on precipitation and runoffs.

-40- Micrometerology. This is largely wind tun­ nel research. I will, when we get over to the wind tunnel, give you a larger run down on that. I won't dwell on it much here. In Sanitary Engineering, we are attempting to simply initiate the program. We do not have much going on at the present time. However, there is a project that is of direct application to san­ itary interested peoples in this State on the disposal of radio active waste in surface streams. This is a project supported by the Geological Survey as far as money is concerned. It's a con­ tract project and it is of great importance, in our opinion at least, to the mining interests on the Western Slope and, of course, to public health officials of the State as a whole. We want to expand this program into water purification and related areas. Naval Hydrodynamics. Our interest here is uncovering information of direct benefit to our national defense efforts on submarines, hydro- foil seaplanes and large ships, particularly air­ craft carriers and particularly, in fields asso­ ciated with warfare making use of missiles and in the mine counter measures field. From there on it's largely of a classified nature . The reason this is of value to Colorado is as follows: (1) Up until recently we were quite impregnable to having our facilities destroyed by the enemy com­ pared to the other two facilities, one on the West Coast and one on the East Coast. We still feel, to a certain extent, we have this favorable loca­ tion; and (2) boating is becoming an every increas­ ingly important recreation in Colorado and the scientific information we are uncovering in this defense oriented program is certainly directly supporting the boating industry as it will develop in this State. I won't go into a long winded story on how this all works in. Support of the program. The magnitude of the program has doubled in the last three years. Now let me explain to you how it has doubled. Our sources of support three years ago was distributed as follows: we received around $17 , 000 from the State of Colorado - State monies. We received $14,000 from Federal sources through the experiment station. We received at that time under our CSURF or contract research program, $110, 000 . This year

-41- we received $19,000 from the State as compared to $17,000 three years ago, $16,000 from Federal as compared to $14,000 three years ago but our con­ tract and grant research has jumped from $110,000 to $320,000. All right, how was this distributed? In general it means that our research program in civil engineering is supported 5% from the State of Colorado, approximately 5% from Federal support through the Station, and 90% on contracts and grants. You could expect, in general, that this same distribution would apply in terms of total money that .would go into the program, to the one that we presented to you this morning, as to this total program. Another interesting point on this, we re­ ceived this year $17,500 from the States of Ala­ bama and Mississippi. Okay . Now where does the rest of our money come from? Here are a typical group of sponsors, the National Science Foundation, the Air Force Research and Development Command, the National Institute of Health, the U.S. Geological Survey, the U.S. Bureau of Public Roads, all of these are current supporter~ not just people who have come and gone. Most of these have been giving us sup­ port year after year and the volume is increasing annually. Industrial, and under here we have a fairly small program actually. The Association of Amer­ ican Railroads, the Office of Naval Research, Alabama and Mississippi I mentioned, the Army Corps of Engineers, the Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, Bureau of Aeronautics, Bureau of Ships, and so on . Quite a long list actually. What is this money spent for and who does it? All right. Here we have some comments with respect to the staff engaged in research. Ob­ viously this staff is working primarily for in­ terests outside of Colorado and primarily for the Federal Government . We have on our payroll during a normal month, about 70 men. This is in simply our fluid mechanics or hydraulics work. When we break this down it is equivalent to about forty full time equivalent research men. Nearly every man is on a split appointment where part of his

-42- responsibility is for research and part for resi­ dent instruction or the classroom work. This staff is made up of quite a large nUihber of graduate stu­ dents also. We have forty graduate students in our Department, thirty-eight I think to be exact, twelve of them working for the PhD degree, the rest of them Masters. We train these men as part of our research program and one of the prime reasons for having the r esearch program in the first place is so that we can train more men to supply the t echnical need of both our State and our Nation. On the staff· itself we have ten PhD's in Civil Engineering, and as far as I can find out, there is only one Civil Engineering Department in the Nation that has that many on its staff. You say well, what difference does it make whether you;ve got ten PhD's or a hundred? Only this, that normally your PhD's are your more productive or higher level basic r esearch scientists and I might add in passing, that within the profession itself, our staff is considered as being within one of the top five in the nation. The facilities that these people make use of. Supported and maintained primarily by contract work. The facilities are concentrated in three areas - the Hydraulics Lab that you will see, the Wave Basin that will be pointed out to you in pass­ ing and the Wind Tunnel Facility on the other side of the campus. However, a good many of the staff are housed at least part time in the new Engineer­ ing Building that we will pass through on the way to the Hydraulics Lab and I will give you a brief­ ing on the personnel in there, and so on, when we get there. In total the r esearch staff has available around 35,000 square feet of space. At the same time , while this seems like considerable space, you will see that we have projects stacked on top of projects, particularly in our Hydraulics Labora­ tory. As far as our plans are concerned, we propose to expand our scientific endeavors largely in two areas, in the sanitary engineering field and in the me t eorology field. Our reasons f or this are largely opportunistic and that our major endeavor is in fluid mechanics in its broadest ramification. Meteorology or atmospheric r esearch is simply

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another aspect of fltlid mechanics, at least much of it is. Sanitary engineering is the same way and because of this and the current national interest in public health, in other words the National Institutes of Health, and in atmospheric physics research, we will seek our support from these areas because they have the most money avail­ able. In closing, in terms of facilities and staff, we are rated nationally amo ng one of the best and these facilities are available to the people of Colorado if Colorado wants them to work for Colo­ rado and, of course, associated with that, we will do everything that we can to assist you as leaders in Colorado's water resource problems, to make it possible for us to help you. Mr . Dils would you like to cover your aspect and then after that we will break up, I believe: so that you may make the tour." DR. DILS: "For a few of you at any rate this will be a little bit of repetition. We talked yesterday to the Water Congress and President Morgan indicated some of the activities of a new Watershed Management Unit to the Board at the luncheon today. Forestry has today become a many-faceted field. No longer is the forester essentially a timber producer. He is, in reality, a resource manager. His charge is the husbandry of all the resources of our wild land which includes wild­ life, range , recreation and water as well as the timber resource. The infant among these many phases of re­ source management, at l east in terms of profes­ sional training, is that of wate r or watershed management. Already in many areas, and particu­ larly in the west, the importance of the water resource far over shadows that of the other re­ sources of the wild lands. Although a course in Forest Influences was first offered in 1932, our schools have been s low in responding to the need for specialized training. It is just within the last ten to twelve years that many of the schools have introduced professional work in watershed management. Colorado State University was among the first of these in offering such course work and it started in 1947 he r e under the direction

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of Dr. H. G. Wilm, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to have been in that first class. In recognition of the need for more adequate training of specialists in the water field, in watershed management, the Charles Lathrop Pack Forestry Foundation just last year made grants to three institutions for furthering education in watershed management. The University of Arizona received approximately $200,000; the University of New Mexico received an amount of $100,000 and in two separate grants, actually, Colorado State Uni­ versity received $75,000. Although we are low on the totem pole there, we certainly do appreciate the help from the Pack Foundation in making our program possible. The University of Arizona has established a Department of Watershed Management in their College of Agriculture and in addition to Watershed Management, will give training in range management and forestry. Forestry particu­ larly will be new to that institution. The Uni­ versity of New Mexico will use their grant of $100,000 to further adult education in conserva­ tion, including watershed management. Here at Colorado State University we have established a cooperative watershed management unit where we will offer professional training at both the undergraduate and the graduate level. Our first efforts were directed toward the construction of an undergraduate curriculum. This curriculum has recently been approved and I have copies here for any of you who might be interested. You can pick them up on your way out if you have an interest in taking a look at what we have in­ cluded in this curriculum. The curriculum follows very closely that which was recommended by a special committee on training needs of foresters and hydrol­ ogists for the Society of American Foresters. It actually stresses very heavily the basic sciences in the mathematics, gives a lot less forestry than you would find in most forestry curriculums· and it has added more work in mathematics, geology, soil science and engineering. We've cut out on the forestry and we've added some professional course work specifically in watershed management. The Pack Foundation indicated particularly an interest in furthering education at the graduate level. In response to this interest, we now offer . - .

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a Master of Forestry degree and a Master of Science degree with a major in Watershed Manage­ ment. We hope to be equipped within the next year to offer a Doctor's degree in Watershed Management and we have had numerous inquiries from potential graduate students at the doctorate level. In further recognition of the need for more ~dequate training and again at the g r aduate level, the Rocky Mountain Forest and Range· Experiment Station, through the headquarters of the Forest Service, Forest Service Research recently approved the appointment of a research specialist to coop­ erate with us; Mr. Bert Goodell, whom many of you know, has been assigned to this post. In addi­ tion to carrying on independent research for the Forest Service, his duties will consist of giving guidance and assistance to our graduate students in the conduct of their research for a Master's thesis or for doctoral dissertation type of re­ search. Professional course work in Watershed Manage­ ment· includes first a course in what we call, or term, the principles of watershed management . There the students will get an exposure to the fundamentals of forest influences, how the forest influences water in its various forms and an ele­ mentary introduction, really, to hydrology. Their real courses in hydrology they get in their senior year from the Department of Civil Engineering, in the Engineering School. We'll have a follow up of this with a course which carries the title 'Watershed Management' in which we will spend as much time as we can in the field visiting the experimental forests at Fraser and at Manitou, the work of the regional office of the Forest Service at Trout Creek, the work of the Agricultural Research Service and the Soil Conser­ vation Service, trying to give some practical as­ pects to the program as well as the basic or funda­ mental work . We also will give a course in Wate rshed Pro­ grams Administration and Policy where we will re­ view the various responsibilities as far as water resources are concerned with Federal, State, pri­ vate, and such organizations as we have right here, and although we are not equipped to get into a specific course in water law, which is a problem

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unto itself, we hope that we will be able to give an introduction to the principles of water law. At the graduate l evel we will have a course in Watershed Analysis in which each student will be expected to make a survey and a complete analy­ sis of a local watershed including recommended remedial measures where indicated. We will have two special seminars and research problems courses. We feel that we are ideally located for a water center here in Colorado and at Colorado State Unive rsity. Within 30 miles of our campus we have access to five major life zones represented in the United States ranging from the Great Plalns to the Arctic tundra and the Alpine snowfields. Four major rive rs, as has already been indicated, originate here in our mountains, the Platte, the Arkansas, the Rio Grande and the Colorado. Out­ standing researchers and scientists in soil and water conservation and in watershed management itself, in Forest Service, Agricultural Research Service and Soil Conservation Service are located either on our campus or have offices here in Fort Collins. The facilities of the Fraser and Manitou Experimental Forests, as well as the facilities of the Rocky Mountain Stations e ntire region including South Dakota, Wyoming, New Mexico and Arizona, are available to us as well. In addition, students have access t o summer employment, where practical, with the National Forest and with the Experiment Station which gives them experience as well as research opportunity. Nearby Denver is headquarters for the Central Rocky Mountain Region of Forest Service, and west­ e rn area or regional headquarters for the Bureau of Reclamation, the Geological Survey, Bureau of Land Management, as well as numerous Stat e agen­ cies vitally concerned with the administration and management of our water resources. We have strong supporting departments and we will lean on them heavily in civil engineering, in irrigation engi­ neering work, in geology, in botany, soil science, as well as well as natural resources management including fore stry, range management, wi l dlife management. Training and research, as Dr. Chamberlain has indicated, in water resources is certainly not new to Colorado. The Hydraulics Laboratory and its

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work in the irrigation engineering field are well known throughout the world. The new program in watershed management, we hope, will add support to the program already established and to the Univer­ sity's leadership in a water resources field. Such facilities as the new wind tunnel, the hydraulics laboratory, some of our new greenhouses with environ­ ment-controlled growth chambers will be available for specialized research to graduate students. Interest expr essed in our program has been more than encouraging both from the United States and from several foreign countries . Although we've been in existence for less than a year« we now have ten undergraduate students and four graduate stu­ dents. We anticipate being able to handle possi­ bly four additional graduat e students this fall. We have had in the range of forty to fifty appli­ cants and we are fortunate in a way in being able to cream off the best of these but it looks as though we will have to start turning away students in the very near future because we won't be able to handle them. Increasing emphasis upon the multiple-use management of our wildlands I'm sure is inevitable. The second major objective of our program is to bring to as many r esource managers and those in related fields an exposure to watershed management. We hope that we will have some of the civil engi­ neering students e lecting a few of our courses, some of the people from geology and soil science, as well. In addition, all of our foresters, our range managers, our wildlife managers will be re­ quired to get some exposure in watershed management at our forestry summer camp. Interest then, location and cooperation I think, are ideal from the standpoint of developing a water resource center at Colorado State Univer­ sity in cooperation with the program which Dr. Chamberlain has already indicated. Needless to say we would be very happy and I am sure Dr. Cham­ berlain would to, to accept any contributions which you collectively or individually might want to make for scholarships, assistantships or fellow­ ships which are necessary in this day and age to support a graduate program. I would like to call to your attention too the new wood utilization laboratory which we now

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have on campus. Forest survey statistics indicate that for Colorado our forest growth exceeds the cut or harvest. Research by the Fore st Service in other parts of the country has indicated that, at least in some places, we may be able to increase water yields or stream flows through the harvest­ ing or partial harvesting of the forest. Where we have overstocked or stagnated stands or overmature timber, we can possibly improve water yield condi­ tions he re in Colorado. The new wood utilization laboratory will help us find new ways and means of utilizing this timbe r. After you l eave the tour of the wind tunnel which is near the new wood utilization laboratory we would like t o invite you to step in and look around. Thank you." DR. CHAMBERLAIN: "From here, if everyone would like to collect their coats, because you'll need them as you are outside going over to the hyd raulics lab and you will be outside in going to the wind tunnel over he r e , I think it would be advisable. I would like to extend an invitation to all of the gue sts of the Water Board here to participate in this t our. We have adequate guides to take care of everyone and then I think three of us at l east, who are he r e , Mort Bittinger over here and myself and Mr. Dils, will be going over to the engineer­ ing building and you can follow us over there in groups or individually, anyway you want. Mr. Chairman I think it is up to you whethe r you want them to r e turn he r e ." MR. STAPLETON: "I think we will all return here ." The business part of the meeting was adjourned, by unanimous consent, at 2:45 P. M.

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