Interview with Joe Klein of the New Yorker in New York City July 5, 2000

Administration of William J. Clinton, 2000 / Oct. 10 Interview With Joe Klein of the New Yorker in New York City July 5, 2000 President’s Historical Perspective Mr. Klein. This happened too slowly for—— Mr. Klein. Do you essentially agree with my The President. But it happened over a long sense that you had—that the big issue has been period of time. Then, there was the trans- moving from the industrial age to the informa- formation from the—you know, it happened tion age, and that—I mean, the toughest over a long period of time as we slowly became thing—— a balanced society. But then, when we burst The President. Yes. The short answer to that onto the world scene as a major national indus- is yes. trial power, that process was basically defined Mr. Klein. ——to explain to people is, you by Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. take something like—how can being in favor And I sort of saw this period in parallel with of affirmative action and being in favor of wel- that. fare reform be part of the same vision? How The rest of the 20th century was mostly about can being in favor of free trade and being in dealing with the rise of—first, the Great De- favor of universal health insurance be part of pression; then the war and the need to defeat the same vision? There are people on the right totalitarian systems, which was part of the war or the left who would say, ‘‘You can’t do that.’’ and the cold war; and dealing with the specific And yet, I think that they are part of the same challenges at home, principally civil rights, the vision. But my first question is, how would you women’s movement, and the growth of environ- describe that vision? mental movement in America. The President. I think my view—I saw my So here, we are moving into, basically, from Presidency as a transformational period, and ba- an industrial society—an industrial economy to sically, America has gone through two before. an information economy, and at the same time Maybe it could start if we did it in historical moving into an ever more globalized economy, times. There were basically—I look at American which also is more and more of a global society history in the following—we had the creation— in that we share common challenges and com- how we got started and sort of filling out the mon interests that go beyond economics. And elements of the National Government and defin- the globalization of the media has accelerated ing what it meant. And that basically went from that. the Declaration of Independence to the Con- So I saw my challenges trying to, first of all, stitution, Washington’s Presidency, and the ap- maximize America’s presence in the information pointment of John Marshall as Chief Justice— economy; second, to try to maximize our influ- which is a very important thing—and then, iron- ence in the welfare of our country and like- ically, through Jefferson’s Presidency, with the minded people around the world in a globalized purchase of Louisiana and the Lewis and Clark society. And then, the other—and I’ll get to expedition, and then the next big challenge was, your questions—and then the third big thing how would we adapt that to our growing indus- for me was trying to make people have a broad- trialization? And how did we get rid of slavery, er and deeper vision of the American commu- which was inconsistent with our principles? So nity and how to handle diversity and how we obviously, that’s what Lincoln and the Civil War would finally get a chance to see, in ways we and the constitutional amendments—and every- never had before, what it meant to make one thing that happened on civil rights after that out of many, what our national motto meant. was about slavery. But there was no single Presi- And I think the—and you ask me, well, how dent that managed the process, if you will, or can you reconcile those things? It seems to me laid out a framework from the agricultural soci- that the two operational strategies we had to ety to an industrial society. But that’s part of pursue those three great goals were, one, the what the railroads, the canals was all about, and Third Way political and social philosophy. If you it’s part of what—and Lincoln was a part of believe in opportunity and responsibility and that with the Morrill Land Grant Act, with the community, then it’s perfectly clear why you colleges. would be for affirmative action and a global 2079 Oct. 10 / Administration of William J. Clinton, 2000 trading system, you know, why you would be ophy, one; and second is sort of a relentless for health care for everybody and whatever else focus on the future, making people always— you said—what was the other thing? trying to force people to always think about not Mr. Klein. Free trade. No, I said that. only what we’re doing, how does it affect today, The President. Welfare reform. but what’s it going to be like 5 years from now, Mr. Klein. Welfare reform. 10 years from now, 20 years from now? And The President. Welfare reform, because first I think that is often—that hasn’t often been of all, work is the best social program. Secondly, the business of the Government. it is imperative to have a basic work ethic if But if you go back to Roosevelt’s focus on you believe in individual responsibility and you conservation or Wilson’s struggle of—failed at- believe it gives meaning and direction to life, tempt at the League of Nations, I think what and I do. But if you do, you also recognize made them both great Presidents for the trans- that there is no society—no society has suc- formational period America was in is that they ceeded in providing access to health care to were not only successful in the moment, by everybody without some governmental action. and large, but they had this focus on the future; Mr. Klein. But there have been people all they kept trying to spark the public imagination along, as you know—I mean, you and I had with the future. And that’s—I hope very much this same conversation in 1991. People all along that the announcement of this genome project, said, ‘‘This is just an electoral strategy. It isn’t although I think it fills people with foreboding a Government strategy.’’ as well as hope, will tend to spark future ori- The President. It was never just an electoral entation on the part of the voters, so the issues strategy to me. that are plainly before us, but won’t be felt Mr. Klein. Well, me, neither, as you know. for a few years will have more effect on the And the question—I guess my question is, do debate and also on people’s voting rights. you feel that you were ever able to really com- municate the depth and breadth of this to the Trade public? Mr. Klein. But it’s a difficult thing. Charlene The President. Yes, but only—probably only Barshefsky said to me that there are times that at the State of the Union Addresses, because you’ve really been concerned, that the expres- it’s probably the only time I ever got to say sion you used was that you hadn’t found your it unfiltered. If I made an error in those, even voice on trade, which is the equivalent of—— though they always received very high public The President. Well, one of the things—she, approval ratings, they said it always took me of course, has to deal with it. But the two things so much time to explain my specific ideas in in trade that have frustrated me most, although education or whatever, I’m not sure I ever took I think we’ve got a great record—and you can full advantage of the opportunity to lay the co- go from NAFTA to the WTO, to the Africa/ herent philosophy out—because I do think at CBI, to launching the free trade of the Americas those points, that people got it. to—China. But what I was going to tell you, if I could Mr. Klein. The reason I raised it was because go back—I think we had the transformation what you just said about the genome reminded from the industrial economy to the information me—I just read your remarks about NAFTA economy, from the idea of a national society in October ’93, and it was very similar, too. to an idea of a more global society in which The President. Yes. And then, of course, nation-states matter. I think the nation-state will China, and then in between we had 270-odd matter more in some ways in the 21st century. agreements, and we had the Mexican financial We can talk about that some. crisis and the Asian financial crisis. But the thing And thirdly, the whole idea of defining Amer- that bothered me about trade—the two things ica where our diversity was something to be that have bothered me about trade, I think, cherished and celebrated because—because our are: One, I have so far not created a consensus common humanity and common values were within my own party, at least among the elected more important.

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