Wednesday Volume 523 9 February 2011 No. 115

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 9 February 2011

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Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): Further House of Commons to that answer, how long will the consultation period on the document be when it is released? Wednesday 9 February 2011 Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the Chairman of the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs for his The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock question. That has to be finally decided, but I would estimate that we should have a public consultation PRAYERS period of two to three months. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I associate myself [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] with the comments of the Secretary of State on Ranger Dalzell. Across the House we are all well aware of the BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS bravery and courage that all those young men show. We sympathise with his family at this time. NEW WRIT On VAT, shoppers from the Republic of Ireland Ordered, coming across to Northern Ireland contribute greatly to That the Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the the economy of Northern Ireland. The VAT increase Crown, to make out a new Writ for the electing of a Member to has impacted directly on Northern Ireland, leading to a serve in this present Parliament for the Borough Constituency of 10% reduction in sales and a 28% reduction in exports. Barnsley Central in the room of Eric Evlyn Illsley, who since his What will the Secretary of State do to address that? election for the said Borough Constituency has been appointed to the Office of Steward or Bailiff of Her Majesty’s Three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham in the County of Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Buckingham.—(Ms Rosie Winterton.) his comments on Ranger Dalzell. Cross-border taxation is an issue that we will consider as part of the paper. We are acutely aware of the ability of consumers to move their spending rapidly either way, Oral Answers to Questions depending on taxation. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Can the NORTHERN IRELAND Secretary of State put into context the changes in taxation? Basic rate taxpayers in Northern Ireland have The Secretary of State was asked— had their personal allowance increase, which has taken many of them out of the tax net. Value Added Tax Mr Paterson: We regard Northern Ireland as an 1. Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) integral part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland (Lab): What assessment he has made of the effect on taxpayers pay their tax and receive public spending in economic growth in Northern Ireland of the increase in return. the basic rate of value added tax. [38253] Mr Shaun Woodward (St Helens South and Whiston) The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen (Lab): I join the Secretary of State in his tribute to Paterson): Before answering, may I pay tribute to Ranger Ranger Dalzell and his family. David Dalzell of the 1st Battalion the Royal Irish Regiment? The Secretary of State has made it clear that he wants He came from Bangor, but he was also stationed with to be Northern Ireland’s man in the Cabinet. As he his regiment in my constituency at Tern Hill. I am sure knows, following the rise in VAT instituted by his the whole House will join me in offering our condolences Government, a litre of fuel in Northern Ireland is the to his family and friends, and thanking this brave young most expensive in any part of the UK. Can he tell the man for his service to his country after he was killed in House why it is more expensive in Belfast than in North Helmand this week. Shropshire, and what a litre of fuel costs in Belfast this The reckless years of debt and spending made the morning? VAT rise a necessary step for national economic recovery. Forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility Mr Paterson: Prices vary from 120p to 133p for petrol show that the Government’s plans will deliver sustainable or diesel, but the right hon. Gentleman should remember growth for each of the next five years, with employment that it was his Government who increased the rate of rising by 1.1 million by 2015, and the deficit falling. duty on fuel. He was in the bunker with the great incompetent for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), Bridget Phillipson: When will the Secretary of State who got the country into this mess in the first place. set out his paper on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy? That is particularly crucial at a time when the Mr Woodward: I am glad that the Secretary of State VAT rise is damaging local retailers. managed to find an answer in his folder. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister are asking him Mr Paterson: The hon. Lady is correct. We need to urgently for help in Northern Ireland now. He has been bring the paper forward as a team effort, working with in the job for nearly a year, but so far there has been no local Ministers. I will come to that in response to later real help on the economy, just a promised paper on the questions. We had a very satisfactory meeting with the economy that is still stuck in the printing press. Meanwhile, Exchequer Secretary earlier this week, and we hope to VAT is up, fuel prices are up and private sector business publish the paper as soon as possible. activity is reporting the biggest fall in 26 months. Hundreds 283 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 284 are losing their jobs at Belfast Metropolitan college, fought alongside his fellow Rangers in 1st Battalion the 4,000 more are due to lose their jobs in health and social Royal Irish Regiment with great courage, enthusiasm services and tens of thousands more jobs will go in the and pride, but sadly lost his life in a tragic accident in public sector. In Dublin, demand evaporates. Now we Afghanistan at the weekend. I thank all Members for learn that he is losing his battle with the Chancellor for their comments today. a future grab on end-of-year funding from the Executive. We can all see that it is hurting. When are people in Mr Swire: I associate myself with the hon. Lady’s Northern Ireland going to see it is working? comments. I can confirm that there are no plans to change the powers of stop and search for the military in Mr Paterson: I do not know how the right hon. Northern Ireland. Gentleman has the nerve. When he was sitting in the bunker in Downing street shoring up his former boss, Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): How can the Minister who overruled the right hon. Member for Edinburgh justify not changing the Army’s powers of stop and South West (Mr Darling) when he wanted to raise VAT, search in Northern Ireland, which exceed those granted the Belfast News Letter found out that I was in Northern to the police under the 2007 Act? They are not subject Ireland more than he was. We were in the danger zone to annual renewal by Parliament as emergency provisions, in May, but thanks to the measures that we have taken, as they were throughout the years of the troubles, and everyone in the UK, including in Northern Ireland and are now permanent and not subject to any of the Lancashire, are in a better place as we establish stability accountability checks that apply to police powers? in the public finances. We cannot go on spending £120 million a day on debt interest. Mr Swire: The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the rising terrorist threat in Northern Ireland, and he will Stop-and-search Powers recognise the part played by the military’s bomb disposal units and the need to go about their business, not least 2. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): What his in his own city of Londonderry, where unfortunately we policy is on the use of stop-and-search powers by had an incident recently. security forces in Northern Ireland. [38254] Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo When the police in Northern Ireland have used stop-and- Swire): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State search powers, they have used them when there is a updated the House this morning on plans to make reasonable suspicion of terrorist activity. Will the Minister amendments to powers of stop and search in Northern reassure the House that that will continue to be the Ireland. These powers are essential in Northern Ireland case? Dissident republican activity is on the rise, and for tackling the threat from terrorism. They have prevented those powers are required principally and forcibly by attacks, saved lives and led to arrests and convictions. the police to thwart that terrorist threat. The Police Service of Northern Ireland uses all available legislation to deal with the terrorist threat. Oversight Mr Swire: Look, we want to make those powers and accountability mechanisms are in place to ensure watertight; we do not wish to water them down. It is that powers are used properly. because the PSNI has used those powers proportionately that we are where we are with section 44, and the Home Grahame M. Morris: I thank the Minister for that Secretary was clear in saying that. She went to Northern response and for the statement that has been placed in Ireland and specifically said that the PSNI had been the Library. The use of section 44 powers has undoubtedly behaving properly, but we do not want anything we do saved lives in Northern Ireland, along with powers in Northern Ireland to be subject to a possible challenge. under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007. That is why we are taking that action, and why a code of What assurances can he give the House that the PSNI practice will be worked out in conjunction with the will in no way be hampered in its efforts to disrupt and PSNI—as I say, to make the powers that we have prevent terrorist activities? watertight, not to water them down. Mr Swire: That is an entirely legitimate question. The changes that we are making are to bring legislation in Police Service of Northern Ireland Northern Ireland into line with changes to section 44. The hon. Gentleman should be reassured, because, as 3. Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): What he would imagine, we have been discussing these matters arrangements he has made to ensure that the Police closely with the PSNI. It has a range of other powers at Service of Northern Ireland has the resources to meet its disposal, but I agree that it would be a retrograde threats from dissident activity. [38255] step to limit its powers at what is a difficult time in Northern Ireland. The proposed amendment will not do The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen that. Paterson): Funding for the PSNI is primarily a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive. However, this Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): Will the Minister Government are committed to ensuring that the Chief kindly confirm the precise details of the Army’s powers Constable has the necessary resources to counter the of stop and search if deployed in Northern Ireland? threat posed by terrorist groups. The Northern Ireland With your leave, Mr Speaker, I would like to take this Justice Minister has made a strong case to the Treasury opportunity to thank colleagues on both sides of the for access to additional resources, but discussions are House for their generous tributes to my young continuing at the highest level, and I am confident that constituent—only 20 years of age—David Dalzell, who we will have a satisfactory outcome soon. 285 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 286

Mr David: The Chief Constable of the PSNI has House that, in the event that dissident activity becomes requested an extra £200 million to deal with the perceived much stronger, resources may be made available from dissident threat in Northern Ireland. Yesterday the the UK Government? Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he was “interrogating the request”. Surely we should have had a proper response Mr Paterson: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. by now. We made it clear that a bid has been made by the Justice Minister, whom I met on Monday and talked to this Mr Paterson: The hon. Gentleman is quite right: the morning on the phone. We are raising this at the highest Chief Constable and the Justice Minister have made level of government and we are determined to stand by that request, and we are taking it extremely seriously. Northern Ireland and do the right thing. The bid is, of course, for money over four years, which is probably unprecedented for the reserve, and it is not Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): It would be an easy matter, given the national economic circumstances churlish of me to let this occasion pass without that we face. I remind the hon. Gentleman, however, of congratulating the right hon. Gentleman, the Minister the Chancellor’s words yesterday. He said: of State, on his elevation to the Privy Council, and I do “We will treat the request with due diligence, but I am clear so with pleasure. that security comes first. That will be my priority.” —[Official It would be negligent of me— Report, 8 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 148.] Mr Speaker: Order. Let me say to the hon. Gentleman Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): The Secretary of that there is real pressure on time, so let us get on with State will no doubt be as delighted as I am by the the question. proposed visit of the Queen down to Dublin, but he will have seen the news on republican websites that there is likely to be dissident activity. What assistance will be Stephen Pound: It would be negligent of me, Mr Speaker, given to the PSNI during that difficult period? not to remind the Secretary of State that the request for additional funding has been with the Treasury since last year—for months. The signal that we send to dissident Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend will know that no visit terrorists is the most important thing here. Will the has formally been confirmed, although everyone in the Secretary of State fight for Ulster, fight against the House would welcome one. I should like to confirm that dissidents and fight with the Treasury to get this money, we have the closest possible collaboration with the which the PSNI needs now? Garda Siochana out in Dublin. A couple of weeks ago I met the new commissioner, Martin Callinan, and I am delighted to say that he is absolutely as robust and as Mr Paterson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his determined to face down those terrorists as his predecessor, congratulations to my right hon. Friend. He is not quite [Interruption.] Fachtna Murphy. right about the request— No,heisnot right to say “months”. The Minister of Justice has negotiated within the Executive and got a significant Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): Given increase from his fellow Ministers, which we welcome. the continuing perceived threat from dissident activity, Having resolved where he stood with the Executive, he the disruption to normal human and economic activity then wrote to me with a request calling on the reserve. two weeks ago in Belfast, and the calculating callousness That letter came to me in January. of leaving a booby-trap device on a child’s bicycle, will the Secretary of State now take action to ensure that intelligence is transferred from MI5 to the Police Service Security of Northern Ireland, which has all the accountability mechanisms in place? 4. Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): What recent assessment he has made of the level of threat to Mr Paterson: I agree with the hon. Lady about the security in Northern Ireland posed by residual terrorist disgusting nature of those terrorists: booby-trapping a groups; and if he will make a statement. [38256] child’s bicycle is absolutely revolting. I know that her strong belief is that the regime should be changed, but 6. John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): at this moment it would be crazy to move the furniture What recent assessment he has made of the threat to around. Let me make it very clear that Lord Carlile, security in Northern Ireland from dissident groups. who conducted an independent review of the matter, [38259] said that MI5 and the Police Service of Northern Ireland are working very closely together, and that we could not 9. Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): What do more work, or do it more energetically, to deal with recent assessment he has made of the level of threat to what is a very difficult threat. I am afraid that we just security in Northern Ireland posed by residual terrorist have to disagree on this matter, but I do agree that we groups; and if he will make a statement. [38262] have to do everything that we can to bear down— The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Mr Speaker: Order. I am immensely grateful to the Swire): The threat level in Northern Ireland remains at Secretary of State, but we must move on. severe. So far this year there have been 15 arrests and three persons charged with terrorist-related offences. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Although PSNI This follows 210 arrests and 80 persons charged in 2010. funding is rightly the responsibility of the devolved The severity of the threat was highlighted by the recent Administration, will my right hon. Friend reassure the Antrim road incident, for which there have been three 287 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 288 arrests in the past 48 hours. This attack not only endangered allegiance to this new group. Can the Minister assure lives but also caused major disruption to local communities the House that any republican prisoner released under and businesses. the Belfast agreement who becomes a member of this group will immediately be returned to prison? Graham Evans: I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Does he agree that cross-border co-operation Mr Swire: I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that the between the north and the south is essential to address Secretary of State and I keep under constant review the the level of threat posed by terrorist groups? possibility of recalling those who have been released earlier. It is under constant review. Mr Swire: In a word, yes. My hon. Friend will have heard my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State say Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): I thank the that he has now met the new chief of the Garda Minister and the Secretary of State for the work they Siochana, Martin Callinan. We continue to work very have been doing with the Treasury to address the problems closely with the Garda, which has had some very lucky that are faced with dissident terrorist activity. Is the finds and some finds as a result of its hard work and Minister concerned that the current to-ing and fro-ing co-operation with the PSNI. We applaud the work— is giving succour to those dissident terrorists when what the Treasury needs to do is to stand by commitments Mr Speaker: Order. We are very grateful. made?

John Woodcock: The Minister has made it clear that Mr Swire: No, I do not believe that. I do believe, as I he is in negotiation with the Treasury over the extra said to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David), funds needed to tackle dissident groups. Can he say at that the PSNI has made a good case to the Treasury. We this stage whether he agrees with the assessment of the have worked on that with the PSNI and the Department Chief Constable that this money is required? of Justice. It is now up to the various bodies involved to negotiate an outcome. I can only repeat what the Chancellor Mr Swire: Clearly we do, because we have endorsed said yesterday in answer to the hon. Member for Ealing it. These things do not come out of the blue. We are North (Stephen Pound): working very closely with the PSNI. We continue to work with the Department of Justice and David Ford, “I am clear that security comes first.”—[Official Report, 8 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 148.] and we continue to work with the Treasury. The hon. Gentleman needs to think about the sums of money I have no reason to suppose that the Chancellor has that are involved in all these things. He would surely changed his mind in the intervening 24 hours. agree that it is only fit, right and proper that the Treasury looks at all applications for funding very Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): Will closely so that we do not find ourselves in the same hole the Minister comment on the assessments that have that we were in when we came into power in May been made of the intentions of dissident republicans last year. here on the mainland with regard to the preparations for the Olympics? What might that activity mean in Glyn Davies: The recent third annual report of the terms of future terrorist attacks here? independent reviewer of the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 states: Mr Swire: The right hon. Gentleman asks that question “So far as terrorism is concerned, the activities of the residual 15 years to the day since the Canary Wharf bombing, terrorist groups have been dangerous and disruptive.” which heralded the end of the IRA ceasefire. It is What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to help therefore a timely question on a date that we all remember. Northern Ireland to combat this threat? Of course, there is a threat here from Northern Ireland- related terrorism. That is why, for the first time ever, the Mr Swire: The threat in Northern Ireland is extremely Home Secretary raised the threat level. I assure hon. serious. The majority of people in Northern Ireland are Members that all services are working closely together against the residual terrorist groups, which have no to ensure that any attempt to disrupt the Olympics or support in the community and are disrupting businesses. any other occasion of national importance in the coming In the case of the Antrim road incident, they put about months or years— 100 people out of their houses on one of the coldest nights of the year. We continue to work extremely Mr Speaker: Order. We are grateful to the Minister. closely with the PSNI. The PSNI works with the Garda in the Republic of Ireland to bear down on these Economic Development terrorists. We are certain that we can do that and drive them out. They have no place in modern Northern Ireland— 5. Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with Ministers in the Mr Speaker: Order. I thank the Minister for his Northern Ireland Executive on economic development answer. in Northern Ireland. [38258]

Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Intelligence The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen agencies tell us that a republican group in County Paterson): The Minister of State and I met last week Tyrone is planning to announce its appearance with a with the Exchequer Secretary and Northern Ireland’s bombing wave in Northern Ireland. One hundred members First Minister, Deputy First Minister, Minister of Finance of the Provisional IRA have seemingly pledged their and Personnel, and Minister of Enterprise, Trade and 289 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 290

Finance to discuss the Government paper on rebalancing Chris Evans: Does the Secretary of State accept that the Northern Ireland economy and promoting investment the Northern Ireland economy needs to stimulate the and growth. private sector? How do the Government propose to do that? Greg Hands: Given the coming corporation tax cut, the national insurance contributions holiday for small Mr Paterson: The hon. Gentleman is right. According businesses and the avoidance of Labour’s national insurance to one report, Northern Ireland’s economy depends on tax increase next month, does the Secretary of State public spending for 77.6% of its gross domestic product. agree that this Government are restoring Northern That is wholly and totally unsustainable. I have been Ireland’s reputation as a destination for inward investment, visiting Northern Ireland for three and a half years now which was badly damaged by the previous Government? and visiting businesses, and we are considering a whole range of measures for rebalancing the economy and Mr Paterson: I endorse my hon. Friend’s comments. helping to promote the private sector, which will be We had an excellent meeting at Hillsborough only last published in our report. There are excellent private week with a number of major businesses, at which we businesses in Northern Ireland, just not enough. saw significant investment coming in from Denmark. I am pleased to say that our plans were endorsed by a Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The Secretary of coalition of significant business organisations last week. State will be aware that to travel from Aldergrove airport in Northern Ireland on a transatlantic flight, a passenger David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): Will the Secretary has to spend an additional £150 in tax. If he travelled of State outline his assessment of the potential impact from the south of Ireland, 90 miles away, as of 1 March on the Northern Ireland economy of the reduction in he would pay ¤3 in tax. What is the Secretary of State corporation tax, and of its cost? going to do about that to encourage people to travel on transatlantic flights from Northern Ireland? Mr Paterson: The coalition of businesses that I mentioned gave an estimate last week of 94,000 jobs, and the Mr Paterson: The hon. Gentleman raises an important Northern Ireland Economic Reform Group published a issue. I discussed it with Declan Kelly, the US envoy, report yesterday with an estimate of 90,000 jobs. On the 10 days ago, and it was also discussed at our meeting costs, the hon. Gentleman should consider the case of with local Ministers and the Exchequer Secretary earlier Canada, where corporation tax has been reduced over this week. My right hon. Friend the Minister of State is recent years and revenue has increased. He will have to working on it with colleagues in the Treasury. be patient and wait for the publication of our paper, which I hope will happen soon.

Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP): Does PRIME MINISTER the Secretary of State agree that Northern Ireland urgently needs meaningful action on creating economic opportunity? Has there been any discussion about how The Prime Minister was asked— we might create the authority for the Northern Ireland Executive to create bonds, thereby creating private funding to boost our construction industry and build the necessary Engagements schools and infrastructure that are missing? Q1. [39061] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) Mr Speaker: Order. There is far too much noise in the (LD): If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday Chamber. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear! Hear!”] Agreement 9 February. is one thing; abiding by it is another. Ministers cannot even hear what is being asked. A bit of order please. The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for to Ranger David Dalzell, from 1st Battalion the Royal his question. We will have a consultation period once Irish Regiment, who died on Friday, and Warrant Officer the paper is published. He made an interesting suggestion, Class 2 Colin Beckett, from 3rd Battalion the Parachute which the Chancellor will have heard. I hope that he Regiment, who died on Saturday. They were both highly will put it through formally in the consultation process. respected soldiers who served with the utmost dedication and pride. They will be hugely missed by their colleagues Economic Affairs and by all who knew them, and our deepest sympathy should be with their family and their friends. 7. Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): When the This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues Government expect to publish their proposals for and others, and in addition to my duties in the House, I rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. [38260] shall have further such meetings later today.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Roger Williams: I know that the whole House will Paterson): The Exchequer Secretary, the Minister of want to join the Prime Minister in his expression of State and I continue to work intensively with Northern sympathy for the recent loss of life in Afghanistan. Ireland Ministers on the Government’s consultation Training establishments in my constituency, such as the paper to set out measures aimed at rebalancing and Sennybridge ranges and the infantry battle school, have growing the Northern Ireland economy. We hope to built up very good relationships between the community complete our work and publish the paper soon. and the military, which are ongoing and strengthening. 291 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 292

UK universities have a worldwide reputation for teaching The Prime Minister: Obviously, I do not agree with and research. Many foreign students wish to attend those what Dame Elisabeth Hoodless has said, but I want to universities, and they are important not least because of work with all those involved in charities and voluntary the £5 billion that they contribute to the national economy. bodies to encourage them to play a strong part. We are Many universities are very concerned that Government putting £470 million into charities and voluntary bodies proposals— across this spending review. We are also establishing a £100 million transition fund to help charities that are Mr Speaker: Order. A short, sharp question, please. affected by cuts. I can today tell the right hon. Gentleman for the first time that because of our deal with the banks Roger Williams: Can the Prime Minister give an the big society bank—[Interruption.] Wait for it. The assurance to the universities that any proposals will not big society bank will be taking £200 million from Britain’s discourage the recruitment of genuine students? banks to put into the voluntary sector. Labour would have got nothing out of the banks, so I am sure that he The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman makes an will want to stand up and welcome that. extremely good point. Our universities in this country are world-class, and we want students from around the Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister does not mention world to come to those universities to study, not just for that he is cutting billions of pounds from voluntary the contribution that they bring financially but because sector organisations up and down this country. Let us of the links they will make between our country and take an example of where parents volunteer and of a their country in years to come. crucial part of local communities: Sure Start. Before the election, he promised to protect Sure Start, but in fact I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we are not currently he decided to cut funding by 9%, and the Daycare Trust looking at limits on tier 4 immigration visas, but I make says that 250 Sure Starts are expected to close. Can he this point to anybody who is concerned about the issue: tell us how that is helping the big society? I profoundly believe that we can have excellent universities, open to foreign students, and control immigration at The Prime Minister: First, let me just say this: Labour the same time. The reason I am so confident is that last put money into the banks; we are taking money out of year there were about 91,000 students who did not go to the banks and putting it into the big society. the trusted universities but went to other colleges—some The right hon. Gentleman asks specifically about 600 colleges. I am sure that the extent of the abuse is Sure Start and the Daycare Trust. I must say that, not very great, and if we crack down on that abuse we can for the first time, he has not done his homework, make sure that there are many students coming to our because the chief executive of the Daycare Trust, Anand excellent universities. Shukla, said: “The Government has allocated sufficient funding for the Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): I join the existing network of Sure Start Children’s Centres to be maintained”— Prime Minister in paying tribute to Ranger David Dalzell, [Interruption.] from 1st Battalion the Royal Irish Regiment, and Warrant Officer Class 2 Colin Beckett, from 3rd Battalion the Mr Speaker: Order. These exchanges are excessively Parachute Regiment. We should all remember both rowdy—[Interruption.] Order. Again, I must ask Members men for their heroism, their dedication and their sacrifice, on both sides to consider what the public think of this and our deep condolences go to their family and friends. sort of behaviour. The Prime Minister—[Interruption.] Can the Prime Minister tell us, how is his big society Order. Questions will be heard, and the answers from going? the Prime Minister will be heard.

The Prime Minister: I actually believe that almost The Prime Minister: I look forward to the answer to every single Member of this House of Commons backs this one. We have maintained the money for Sure Start what we are talking about. Let me just explain what it is. and the money for children’s centres, and the head of The idea of devolving power to local authorities, and the Daycare Trust backs our view rather than the right beyond to communities, was in his manifesto, in my hon. Gentleman’s. manifesto and indeed in the Liberal Democrat manifesto. I think we all support it. The idea of opening up public Edward Miliband: No, the Prime Minister has cut the services to more local involvement and control, again, funding and we will judge him on whether Sure Start was in all our manifestos, and we support it. I believe centres close over the coming months. that probably every single Member of the House spends The problem with the Prime Minister’s argument on time in their own constituency encouraging volunteering local government, and with the nonsense peddled by the and philanthropic giving, and wants people to play a local government Secretary, is that they say they can bigger part in a bigger society. I think the whole House make 28% cuts in local government funding and not is united on that. affect any front-line services. What does the Conservative head of the Local Government Association say about Edward Miliband: We all support thriving communities, that? She says that the local government Secretary is which is why there is such concern from charities up and “detached from reality”. down the country. Why does the Prime Minister not Let us ask about libraries. Four libraries are threatened listen to people who know a lot about volunteering, with closure in the Prime Minister’s own constituency, such as Dame Elisabeth Hoodless, the chief executive of and hundreds are threatened up and down the country. Community Service Volunteers, which is the largest Can he explain to people who are concerned about that volunteering charity in Britain, who says that his policies how he expects people to volunteer at the local library if are “destroying the volunteer army”? it is being shut down? 293 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 294

The Prime Minister: Let me just deal with the right The Prime Minister: The problem with everything hon. Gentleman’s question on Sure Start. I know he got that the right hon. Gentleman has said is that all that wrong—[Interruption.] We will come to libraries the cuts that we are having to make are because of the in a minute. On Sure Start, the budget is going from complete mess that he made of the economy. That is the £2.212 million to £2.297 million. That budget is going background for this whole debate. We now know what up. That is what is happening. they think of the inheritance that they left us, because The right hon. Gentleman gave a particular example, the shadow Chancellor has said: so let me put one to him—[Interruption.] We will come “I don’t think we had a structural deficit at all in that period”. to libraries. Let me take the case of one council: Liverpool The Institute for Fiscal Studies says: council. The cuts will mean that, by 2013, Liverpool “By the eve of the financial crisis…the UK” council will go back to the level of grant it received in had 2009, so what we are seeing is politically motivated moves by Labour councils. I remember the times when “one of the largest structural budget deficits in the developed world.” Labour leaders stood up to Labour councils that made those decisions. May I advise the right hon. Gentleman that the first stage of recovery is to recognise that you have a problem? On the issue of libraries, because we are taking The truth about the Opposition is that they doubled the council spending back generally to the level of the debt, let the banks rip and bankrupted the country, and grants in 2007, I see no reason why they should not their only message is, “Let us do it all over again”. continue with a very well funded network of libraries. We all know a truth about libraries, which is that those Q2. [39062] Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): My which will succeed are those that wake up to the world constituent, Rifleman Jack Otter, lost both his legs and of new technology, the internet and everything else, and an arm while serving in Afghanistan more than investment goes in. That is what needs to happen. 15 months ago. I am sure that the Prime Minister and Should councils look at community solutions for other the whole House understand the debt that we owe Jack libraries? I believe that they should. Instead of sniping and others like him who have served our country. With and jumping on every bandwagon, the right hon. the number of British soldiers losing limbs having Gentleman should get behind the big society. increased by 40% from 2009 to 2010, does the Prime Minister agree that it is important that we find access Edward Miliband: Only this Prime Minister could to new resources to ensure that patients and staff at blame the libraries for closing. He needs to understand Headley Court can continue their excellent standard of why his big society idea is in such trouble. It is because work, which is sadly coming under greater pressure? libraries, Sure Start centres, citizens advice bureaux, community centres—including in Hammersmith and The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an incredibly Fulham, his flagship council—which are at the heart of important point about what is happening in terms of our society, are threatened with closure up and down the number of people returning as single, double and the country. If it is going so well, why does his big sometimes treble amputees, and about what we as a society adviser, Paul Twivy, say that this idea society must do to support them. I have visited Headley “is increasingly loathed by the public.”? Court, and I know that many others have done so. It is an absolutely magnificent facility. A new ward opened The Prime Minister: We were all waiting for the right in September last year and it now has a capacity of hon. Gentleman’s big idea, and we have now got it. 111 trauma beds. Because of what Help for Heroes has Labour has published its fresh new ideas. The tree was done, there is a 25-metre swimming pool, a Battle of chopped down, but there is nothing in the book. We all Britain gym with a sprung sports floor and a centre for knew that we wanted a blank page, but no one thought mental and cognitive health. But we must go on ensuring that he would publish a whole book of them. What are that that magnificent facility is continually improved his plans? What are his great ideas? He has not got a and that we do everything for our brave returning single idea for making this country a better place. soldiers. Instead of sniping, why does he not join in and work out how we could build a bigger society in our country? Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): Just over a year ago the Prime Minister visited a maternity unit and found our midwives to be overworked. As a Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister should not get result, he promised that, with a Conservative Government, so angry: it will cloud his judgment. He is not the first he would bring about 3,000 more midwives. A year on, Prime Minister I have said that to—[HON.MEMBERS: could he tell us how he has gone about that? “Oh.”] Did not the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) get to the truth behind the The Prime Minister: The first thing that we have done Prime Minister’s motives? The right hon. Gentleman is ignored the advice from Labour and increased the said: NHS budget. We would not be making progress on any “If you talk about the small state, people think you’re Attila of these health issues if we had followed the advice of the Hun. If you talk about the big society, people think you’re the hon. Lady’s party and cut the NHS. We do need Mother Teresa.” more midwives and more resources; we are making sure After what the Prime Minister is doing to charities up that those are going in. and down this country, no one will think he is Mother Teresa. Is not the truth being exposed day by day—he is Q3. [39063] Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): cutting too far and too fast, and society is becoming Will the Prime Minister reflect on the decision taken in smaller and weaker, not bigger and stronger? the House of Lords on Monday, which was supported 295 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 296 by many senior Conservatives and Cross Benchers, to if the Liberal Democrats demand as the price for another enable Parliament to have a review in the event of fewer coalition the scrapping of Trident, he will refuse to pay than four in 10 people participating in the AVreferendum? that price? Will my right hon. Friend consider this compromise to be a reasonable one and to be consistent with the The Prime Minister: First of all, let me make this coalition agreement? Failing that, will he trust his own point. The replacement of Trident is going ahead. The Back Benchers in a free vote to make their own judgments? investment is going in; the initial gate will soon be passed. The reason for the delay is that we had a The Prime Minister: I have to say to my hon. Friend value-for-money study because we desperately need to that we have not had thresholds in previous referendums, save some money in the Ministry of Defence, so that we but I do not think that he should be so down on this. I can invest in front-line capability. That is the argument am sure—[Interruption.] there. In terms of the future, all I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that I am in favour of a full replacement Mr Speaker: Order. The Prime Minister’s answer for Trident, a continuous at-sea deterrent and making must be heard. All this noise is—[Interruption.] Order. sure that we keep our guard up. That is Conservative All this noise is damaging colleagues’ chance of getting in. policy; it will remain Conservative policy as long as I am the leader of this party. The Prime Minister: I am sure that my hon. Friend will work with me to get the turnout up, particularly for John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): the no vote. But with due respect, the Prime Minister chose to break his word on the education maintenance allowance and matters such as reorganising the NHS, so why will this Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Last week a pledge prove any different? cross-party Welsh Affairs Committee report criticised the Government’s proposal to close Newport passport The Prime Minister: I have visited the hon. Gentleman’s office, which will see the loss of 250 jobs, be devastating constituency and I know how important this issue is for for the economy of Newport and does not appear to be him. I profoundly believe that we should maintain our saving any money. Will the Prime Minister agree to independent nuclear deterrent. I have looked at all the meet me and my hon. Friend the Member for Newport alternatives over the years, and I am completely convinced West (Paul Flynn), so that we can put the case to him that we need a submarine-based alternative—a full personally? replacement for Trident—in order to guarantee the ultimate insurance policy for this country. That is my The Prime Minister: I am looking at this decision. It view, the view of my party and the view of most of the is an important decision, and I know that there is great people sitting opposite me. I believe that there is all-party work being done in reflecting on what jobs can be saved support for the move. in Newport and Liverpool, where the two competing offices are. I am very happy to arrange for the hon. Engagements Lady to meet my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration, because he is the one who will have to make the decision, so that he can hear from her and the hon. Member for Q5. [39065] Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Newport West (Paul Flynn) directly. Lord Carlile, the official reviewer of terrorism legislation, said last week that this country had become Nuclear Deterrent a “safe haven” for terrorists. Will my right hon. Friend give the House an assurance that this Government will do all that they possibly can to deport foreign nationals Q4. [39064] Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): who are suspected of involvement in terrorism? What assessment he has made of the effect of coalition politics on the future of the UK’s nuclear deterrent. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this point. I have been concerned for many The Prime Minister: We have made it clear that we are years that we have not been able to deport people we committed to maintaining a nuclear deterrent based on suspect of plotting against us in the way that we should Trident. That is why it was excluded from the strategic be able to. Lord Carlile has spoken and written about defence and security review, and why we commissioned this extremely clearly. We have negotiated return a separate value-for-money study. The replacement of agreements—so-called deportation with assurance Trident is going ahead, and initial gate will be passed agreements—with Algeria, Jordan, Ethiopia, Libya and soon. As set out in the coalition agreement, the Liberal Lebanon, but I want us to negotiate many, many more. Democrats will continue to make the case for alternatives. In the end, we must do whatever is necessary to ensure that we can keep this country safe. Dr Lewis: When the coalition was being formed, my right hon. Friend promised a meeting of all Conservative Q6. [39066] David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): MPs that the Liberal Democrats would support the Northern Ireland is still being held back by some dissident replacement of Trident. As we know, the key decision republican groups. To deal with this, the Chief Constable has been postponed until after the next election, and the has asked for up-front access to the reserve allocation Liberal Democrats, from their president downwards, over the next four years. Does the Prime Minister agree have been boasting that this was their achievement. Will that, if the threat is not dealt with, it will quickly spread the Prime Minister give a pledge to this House and to to the rest of the United Kingdom? Will he grant the the country that in the event of another hung Parliament, Chief Constable’s request? 297 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 298

The Prime Minister: I have met the Chief Constable until there has been at the very least consultation with on several occasions since becoming Prime Minister. He the local community and consideration of alternative came to the meeting of the National Security Council at ways to provide the service? which we discussed the security situation in Northern Ireland. We will do what is necessary to ensure that The Prime Minister: I understand the importance of security, the police and everything else are properly these facilities in rural communities. As I understand it, funded. I think that it is right, now that these issues are the chief executive of the Driving Standards Agency devolved, that there is greater decision making and has said that she will explore further how to continue to greater efforts to put money into the front line in offer facilities in these locations. I will ask the Under- Northern Ireland itself, but of course we always stand Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the ready to help where necessary. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), to contact the hon. Gentleman to discuss this important Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): The Prime issue with him. Minister might recall visiting the maternity department at Fairfield hospital in Bury when he was Leader of the Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Last week, there Opposition. Last week, despite our pledge to keep it was a memorial service in Gloucester cathedral for Tom open and despite the very useful new criteria issued by Walkinshaw, a constituent of the Prime Minister and a the Department of Health, the NHS in the north-west legend in my city for all he did to revive Gloucester decided to continue with the closure decision that was rugby. Does the Prime Minister agree that Tom, and taken by Labour. Will my right hon. Friend discuss with many others like him who have invested so much of the Secretary of State for Health the ways in which we their own money in our great sports, have done a lot to can keep our pledge on this matter? increase self-belief and pride in our cities?

The Prime Minister: I am very happy to discuss that The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend speaks very well issue with my hon. Friend and with the Secretary of of someone who lived in my constituency and invested State for Health. As he knows, we have introduced far not only in rugby, but in Formula 1, which has been an tougher steps before these decisions can be taken, to absolutely world-beating industry for our country. We ensure that local needs, and the views of patients and should celebrate that, particularly in my region, where local GPs, are respected. The whole point about the new so many people are employed in this incredibly high-tech system, which is GP-led, is that hospitals will thrive endeavour. when local people use and value them. Q9. [39069] Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) Q7. [39067] David Cairns (Inverclyde) (Lab): In the past few weeks, the Government have rebranded antisocial (Lab): Does not the Prime Minister’s plan to sell off the behaviour orders as criminal behaviour orders, renamed forests show once again that he knows the price of control orders as terrorism prevention and investigation everything but the value of nothing? measures, and rechristened curfews as overnight residence requirements. Does the Prime Minister not realise that The Prime Minister: Let me say to the hon. Lady and no amount of rebranding will disguise the fact that a to all hon. Members who I know are very interested in Government preparing to cut police numbers by 10,000 this subject that we are having a consultation; we are will be seen as nothing other than weak on antisocial listening to people’s views. Let me make a couple of behaviour, reckless on terrorism and soft on crime? things clear. First, we will not do what happened under the last Government, which was the sale of forests with The Prime Minister: I notice that the Labour party is absolutely no guarantees of access. [Interruption.] Yes, going a long way to rebranding new Labour as old and that is exactly what they did. We also have a good irresponsible Labour, and I have to say that the project opportunity to bust a few myths about this situation. is going very well. The idea that all Forestry Commission forests are open to the public and do not charge is simply not true. Many David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Does my right forests, such as the New Forest, are not owned by the hon. Friend believe that the quality of the debate on the Forestry Commission and have much better access, no future of Britain’s debt burden is enhanced by the parking charges and very good records on habitat. deficit denial on the Opposition Front Bench? While we are having this consultation, we should bust some of the myths that have been put around about this The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an extremely idea. good point. The Opposition were beginning to understand that they had left us with a debt burden, and beginning Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): The to own up to it, but now, with the new shadow Chancellor, latest US Department of Defence report to Congress they are in complete and utter deficit denial. They have states that the Taliban’s strength lies in the Afghan not even taken the first step to being a responsible people’s perception that the Taliban will ultimately be Opposition. victorious. Is it not now time for fresh thinking on Afghanistan, which must include getting the Americans Q8. [39068] Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Around the to open talks with the Taliban, because as we proved in country, driving test centres such as those at Arbroath Northern Ireland it is possible to talk and fight at the and Forfar in my constituency are being closed without same time? any consultation whatever with the local community or instructors. Surely that is the complete opposite of The Prime Minister: I would say two things to my localism. Will the Prime Minister lean over and instruct hon. Friend. First, of course there has to be a political his Transport Secretary to put a stop to such closures process; almost every insurgency in history has ended 299 Oral Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 300 through some combination of military might and a Q12. [39072] Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) political process. I accept that, but where I disagree with (Con): Last week the Government committed more my hon. Friend is that I think that this year the Taliban than £100 million of investment to the M6 Heysham will see that there is no meaningful removal of US Port road link, promising to bring much-needed new forces from Afghanistan. This will be another year in jobs and businesses to my part of Lancashire. Can the which the Taliban are going to be heavily defeated on Prime Minister reassure me that, despite our economic the battlefield, which will make a political solution difficulties, the Government will continue to invest in more rather than less likely. major capital schemes, particularly in northern areas such as mine, which were much neglected by the last Q10. [39070] Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) Labour Government? (Lab): Why is the Prime Minister cutting benefits and pensions for the armed forces? Does he intend to honour the agreement with our armed forces? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very good point. We have prioritised, in a difficult spending The Prime Minister: I do not accept what the hon. round, spending on capital infrastructure, including the Gentleman says. Indeed, the armed forces are excluded scheme that he mentions. It is important, as we go for from John Hutton’s report, which is looking at increasing growth in our country, that we put capital expenditure people’s contributions. Let me remind the hon. Gentleman into our roads and railways, and things that will help of what we have done for the armed forces. We said we our economy to grow. That is exactly what we are doing would double the operational allowance for people in my hon. Friend’s constituency, and in many other serving in Afghanistan, and we have done that. We said constituencies across the country. that we would introduce a pupil premium, for the first time, for soldiers’ children who go to our schools, and Q13. [39073] Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): The we have done that. We have said that leave for the armed Prime Minister insists that the financial crisis was caused forces should start when they land back in the UK, not by a lack of regulation, but even after the collapse of when they leave Afghanistan, and we are doing that. Northern Rock he complained that the last Government This Government are very pro our armed services and had subjected the banks to excessive bureaucracy and their families, and want to ensure that we give them a too much regulation. He promised to give them an good deal. easier ride, saying, Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): The whole House will “government needs to do less taxing and regulating”. regret the regular reports of tragic knife-crime incidents Is that why donors in the City have given the Tory party in this country. Does the Prime Minister agree that so much money? anyone who takes to the streets carrying a knife does so with the capability to commit grievous bodily harm or The Prime Minister: I remember a time when the hon. murder? What sort of punishment does he feel that Gentleman used to write the last Prime Minister’s questions. these people should receive? Given what he has said, I think that the last Prime The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an extremely Minister is writing his questions. The fact is that Labour important point. We must ensure that people who carry left us the most indebted households, the most bust knives know that the result of that is likely to be a banks, and a deficit—[Interruption.] prison sentence. We must get tougher on what happens in terms of knife crime. Under the last Government, Mr Speaker: Order. The Prime Minister’s answer will knife crime after knife crime was met with a caution be heard, and with some courtesy. That is what the rather than with proper punishment in courts. Labour public want to see. They are sick to death of this sort of Members can talk about knife crime as much as they behaviour. like, but they were as soft as anything on it. The Prime Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Let me Q11. [39071] Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): The provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill were not just make one point. The person who was the City costed before or after the election. Given the extension Minister when the City blew up is now your shadow of commercial providers, is it the case that the NHS is Chancellor. Great pick. not safe in the hands of the Government, but that the hands are in the safe of the NHS? Q14. [39074] Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Can the Prime Minister give an assurance that Parliament will have The Prime Minister: On the NHS, I can do no better the final say on whether prisoners will have the right to than quote the shadow Secretary of State for Health. vote? In view of the public’s disdain for the unelected This is what he said about our plans: bureaucrats in Strasbourg, will he defend our country “No-one in the House of Commons knows more about the from any further sanctions from Europe on the issue? NHS than Andrew Lansley… Andrew Lansley spent six years in Opposition as shadow health secretary. No-one has visited more of the NHS. No-one has talked to more people who work in the The Prime Minister: I think the hon. Lady knows that NHS than Andrew Lansley… these plans are consistent, coherent I have every sympathy with her view. I see no reason and comprehensive. I would expect nothing less from Andrew why prisoners should have the vote. This is not a situation Lansley.” that I want this country to be in. I am sure that you will That was said by Labour’s shadow Health Secretary. I all have a very lively debate on Thursday, when the could not have put it better myself. House of Commons will make its views known. 301 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Defence Allocations 302

Flood Defence Allocations Whatever the amount of funding available, we cannot expect the national taxpayer to completely fund all the Mr Speaker: Before I call the hon. Member for Wakefield costs of each and every scheme; that has been a long- (Mary Creagh), let me appeal to right hon. and hon. accepted understanding on both sides of the House. Members who are leaving the Chamber to do so both Difficult decisions must be made, and we must ensure quickly and quietly so that the question can proceed in that public investment delivers the most in terms of a reasonable atmosphere. I ask Members what they outcomes and benefits per pound spent. would want if they were asking or answering the urgent Under the new proposals for funding flood and coastal question. erosion risk management, local ambitions in terms of protection no longer need be constrained by what national 12.33 pm budgets can afford. We want to use every £1 wisely and make sure that as many people as possible have the Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): (Urgent Question): opportunity of benefiting from new or enhanced flood To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food defences. With the funding allocations announced today, and Rural Affairs if she will make a statement on the 112,000 properties will benefit from improved protection. Government’s flood defence allocations for 2011-12. Going forward, closer working with local communities and more opportunities for outside contributions will The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for mean that more people will ultimately be protected. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): The coalition Government are committed to protecting Mary Creagh: I am grateful to the Minister for that people and property from flooding and coastal erosion reply, but I am surprised that the Secretary of State, to where it is sustainable and affordable to do so. Today, whom this question was put, did not deem the House the Environment Agency is setting out detailed plans worthy of an answer in person from her. for proposed capital investment projects in the 2011-12 financial year. When completed, these schemes will We know that the Environment Agency board met provide better protection to over 112,000 homes in last Thursday to decide this year’s flood defence allocations, England. As already announced, a total of £521 million and that the press were invited to a briefing today at will be allocated by the Department for Environment, noon. We heard from journalists that DEFRA would Food and Rural Affairs to the Environment Agency issue a press release today at noon, but without this next year for flood and coastal erosion risk management urgent question—which you kindly granted, Mr Speaker— in England. That will be roughly half revenue funding Members would have read of the total nationwide flood and half capital investment. The capital funds will take allocations from the media this evening rather than forward 109 schemes which are already under construction, debating them fully in Parliament today. Can the Minister and in addition to these, a further 39 new flood and tell the House why a written ministerial statement on coastal defence projects will go ahead. Of these, 21 projects the flood allocations was not even laid in the Library or will provide better protection to 13,000 households at on the Order Paper today? risk. The remainder relates to repairs and safety Following the comprehensive spending review, Parliament enhancements to existing defences. has not had any chance to debate the flood budget for The list of new schemes includes a £5.7 million 2011-12, yet this is arguably the part of the DEFRA project to protect 182 households in Keswick from budget which most affects our constituents. The amount flooding of the river Derwent. In total, over the next was revealed in a written answer on 20 January this four years DEFRA intends to spend at least £2.1 billion year, which said that the capital funding for flood and increase protection for at least 145,000 homes. defences to protect our constituents’ homes has fallen from a baseline figure last year of £354 million to Inevitably, it has been necessary to find savings in all £259 million. Will the Minister confirm that this is a areas of Government expenditure, but we have protected 27% cash cut to the budget, and a 32% real-terms cut flood and coastal erosion risk management as much as when inflation is taken into account, and not the bizarre possible. The reduction is 8% compared with the previous 8% cut that he insists on briefing in the media? four-year period. We have protected front-line services such as forecasting, warnings and incident response, We know from the Environment Agency’s own figures and the maintenance of existing defences. that, As I have said previously, no schemes will have been “On average, every pound invested in improved flood cancelled. All defences already under construction—the protection…reduces the long term cost of flooding and coastal erosion by £8.” 109 projects I have mentioned— will be completed. It is the nature of flood and coastal defence investment that Has the Minister calculated that this £95 million cut to there are always more projects than national budgets flood defence spending this year will actually cost the can afford at any one time. Funding has always needed nation more than three quarters of a billion pounds— to be prioritised. Nevertheless, I understand the concerns £760 million—in lost future value? We know that certain of people and hon. Members who are worried that a schemes have been cancelled, because MPs in those particular scheme is not on the indicative list for funding. areas have been briefed. The Minister mentioned 39 new I should stress, however, that this does not amount to schemes going forward, but 59 flood defence projects the Government cancelling schemes or saying any particular are due to start over the next four years. How many of scheme cannot go ahead in the future. The method of those will be completed in the next four years, and what Government funding for schemes starting in 2012-13 steps is he taking to protect areas affected by these and beyond is currently under review. That follows reductions in flood defence spending? recommendations made by Sir Michael Pitt after the In the past, the Government allocated flood defence widespread flooding of 2007. Transparency and greater money for two or three years, as large construction local involvement are at the heart of the new proposals. projects take several years to plan and complete. We 303 Flood Defence Allocations9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Defence Allocations 304

[Mary Creagh] On capital spending, really, the hon. Lady has got to change her tack, because she is not comparing apples have heard from the Minister today about his plans for with apples; these are two very different circumstances. a flood levy. Again, this is the first time we have debated Rightly, the former Chancellor in the previous Government that on the Floor of the House, but the consultation is announced a 50% cut in capital spending. If the hon. on the DEFRA website. Can he reassure the House that Lady were sitting on the Government side of the House, any proposals for future flood defence funding are not she might—rightly, as we have—favour flood spending skewed away from areas of high need and towards areas and reduce the amount of saving accordingly, as we where people have deeper pockets? have done. But she cannot say that as if the spending Can the Minister say what conversations he has had last year and this year are the same, because they are with the insurance industry about its consternation at not; the economic situations are completely different. these funding cuts? Labour’s statement of principles She knows that and she really needs to change her tune. guaranteed universal flood insurance coverage for homes The hon. Lady asked about communities with a high in affected areas. It runs out in 2013 and was based deprivation index, where there is a need to protect people on the understanding, following the Pitt review, that on low incomes. I can assure her that the system will be Government should have skewed, as it is and always was, in favour of areas where “above inflation settlements for future spending rounds.” a large number of people are on low incomes; that will Is the Minister aware of the comments of Steve remain through the payment-for-outcomes scheme. Foulsham, technical service manager of the British On insurance, we are working closely with the Association Insurance Brokers Association, who said in Insurance of British Insurers. The statement of principles was Professional Magazine in January 2011, always going to end in 2013, and it is always going to “When the Statement of Principles comes to an end, it will be require important and careful negotiation to ensure devastating for consumers”? that we get a scheme that protects people and their Has the Minister had any contact with David Williams, homes and so that they can get insurance. A good managing director of claims at Axa Commercial Lines, working party has come out of a flood summit that we who says, held in September, which was attended by a number of “Now that spending has been reduced…all bets are off. The hon. Members. The ABI is optimistic that it can find a Government is in breach of its side of the bargain, so if insurers scheme that will offer the kind of protection that households wanted to stop providing cover, they would probably be able to”? will need in the future, and I hope that that will be What contact has the Minister had with the industry to the case. ensure that homes do not become uninsurable, or insurance premiums simply unaffordable? Does he agree with me Several hon. Members rose— that if insurance is too expensive, the Government Mr Speaker: Order. There is considerable interest in become the insurer of last resort for those who simply this subject, but there are two important statements, cannot afford it? and other demanding business, to follow. There is pressure Finally, may I ask that the Minister place a copy of on time, so short questions and short answers are his statement in the Library of the House, so that hon. essential. Members in all parts of the House can communicate first with their constituents, and not be trumped once Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): again by the newspapers? The House will not be taken in by the crocodile tears of the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh), whose Richard Benyon: I am grateful for those questions Government changed the points system in 2005, depriving and I am sure I can reassure the hon. Lady on a number many towns such as Thirsk of protection from floods. of them. First, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of Will the Minister give the House an assurance that any State has just returned from a meeting at Water UK. local levy he seeks to raise will not trigger the 2.5% increase This is an urgent question, she came to the House a that would lead to a local referendum? Will he work short time ago, and I have been available to prepare for with the insurance industry to see whether local resilience it. Secondly, we have a debate this afternoon in Westminster measures for houses could be extended to business Hall when we will have the opportunity to discuss these properties and whether a lower insurance premium matters in detail, and I look forward to that. Thirdly, on could then be attracted? the hon. Lady’s question about a written statement, there is nothing different in this method of announcing Richard Benyon: We very much want to gear things funding compared with previous years. Last year, there towards a system where the benefits can be understood was no written statement. These are indicative budgets by people. That is why the payment-for-outcomes scheme put forward by the Environment Agency. Where Ministers offers so much potential; it offers clarity, for the first were, rightly, held and continue to be held to account time, where the current system is opaque. It will allow was on the overall budget, which was announced in the communities such as my hon. Friend’s to see where they autumn. There are plenty of opportunities for the hon. are in the pecking order, why they are constantly overtaken Lady—Opposition day debates and other circumstances as our understanding of flood risk management gets —to raise this issue and hold Ministers to account. The better and where they are missing out. Thus, when Environment Agency is publishing its indicative list of people and businesses are benefiting, they may choose schemes that are due to go ahead in the coming year, to contribute and get their scheme above the line. This and that goes to regional flood defence committees for approach offers her and her constituents a great opportunity. approval. So we are at that stage of the process, and that is no different from previous years, and no written Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Can the Minister statement was made last year—I checked before I came please explain how the cuts that he is being forced to to the House. confirm to the House today are consistent with a very 305 Flood Defence Allocations9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Defence Allocations 306 clear assurance given by the Prime Minister to this in opposition and the Select Committee on Environment, House during Prime Minister’s questions on 17 November? Food and Rural Affairs supports it now. Can he give us He said that flood defence spending would be “protected” a time scale for the implementation of that statutory and would be “roughly the same” as under Labour. duty?

Richard Benyon: I hope that we will be able to prove Richard Benyon: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely at the end of this process that the spending is broadly right to raise this issue, which is the one area of the Pitt the same: an 8% cut compared with the previous four review about which we have qualms. I am happy to years, but with 15% efficiency savings that we think we discuss it because I know that he has a lot of contact can get out of the Environment Agency and a greater with members of the fire service. I am not sure that understanding of how we can deliver. The right hon. placing a statutory duty on fire and rescue services will Gentleman must agree that what really matters is the make any difference to the services I have seen. We are outcome: households protected from flooding. I am really going to be testing them through Exercise Watermark. really confident that at the end of this process we will be Some of them tell me that they would like a duty, but able to produce outcomes that are no worse than those quite a lot tell me that it would not make a blind bit of in the past and perhaps even better. difference to how they operate and how they integrate with other emergency services. However, I have an open Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Will the mind and I will listen to him. Environment Agency continue to work with local organisations and local people on small-scale engineering improvements, which have helped to protect for the Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I want to future areas such as Glendale and the Ingram valley in take this opportunity to thank the Minister for meeting Northumberland, as well as considering issues such as my constituents and because the schemes for Felixstowe those relating to Morpeth? and Thorpeness are on the national list. That has yet to be confirmed by the regional flood and coastal committee, Richard Benyon: I can guarantee that to my right but I am sure that it will do so. Will he tell us a little hon. Friend. I can also tell him that our understanding more about how the funding will help people who help and the software now available to guide on things such themselves and how it will protect those in vulnerable as surface water flooding mean that a small and relatively households and areas? low-cost building of defences can have an enormous effect in delivering precisely the amount of protection Richard Benyon: I have been impressed by innovative we want. I can assure him that the Environment Agency schemes in my hon. Friend’s constituency, which we are will continue to work with local people. using as a basis from which to take forward a number of ideas. I can confirm that the central Felixstowe beach Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): In the north-west management works will proceed under the next year’s London basin, 2,000 people have been subjected to budget. repeated flooding in the Mogden catchment area. That was to be addressed through the sustainable urban Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): drainage scheme and the investigations that were going What assessment has the Minister made of the impact on into that catchment area. Can the Minister assure that the cuts will have on my constituents in Hull who me that that scheme will go ahead? were badly flooded in 2007 and who still find the insurance market partly closed? Richard Benyon: I do not want to mislead the House or the hon. Gentleman. If he will meet me, I will be Richard Benyon: The statement of principles relates happy to give him exact and firm details about that only to properties built before 2009, so for a large scheme. number of households it already does not apply. That is a major concern. We have debated this issue in the Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): Parts of House, and the hon. Lady’s constituents who were my constituency were devastated by the floods in 2007. flooded in 2007, like mine, have a right to see the road May I thank the Minister, on behalf of the people of ahead on this issue. Not only are their premiums rising Alcester, for allowing the project there to go ahead? but their excess charges are rising too. Some of my May I also, on behalf of the people of Broom, come constituents, frankly, have no insurance because they and see him about an innovative idea that we have had, have excess charges of £10,000. She is absolutely right with the Environment Agency, for mitigating flooding to ask about this issue, which we will take forward in in Broom? our negotiations with the ABI. The most important Richard Benyon: I am all for innovation. The carpet thing is that we are talking. There is a lot of agreement in my office is wearing thin from colleagues on both and I believe we can find a way forward and find sides of the House coming to see me, but I will certainly solutions. The insurance industry is in a state of change meet my hon. Friend. I am keen to hear about new and we will see more specialist providers coming through plans and I am happy to involve the Environment this process. Agency, which perhaps has greater technical understanding than I do. Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): One of the lessons from the flooding in Cornwall before John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): The Christmas was that community flood plans and community Minister mentioned the Pitt review and that the Government flood wardens can make a real difference in protecting have protected instant response. One of the review’s people and property. Can the Minister assure me that recommendations was to place a statutory duty on fire there is money within the settlement to continue the and rescue authorities. The Government supported that establishment of such groups in vulnerable areas? 307 Flood Defence Allocations9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Defence Allocations 308

Richard Benyon: We really value those measures and the north and we cannot allow it to be knocked out by we are impressed with what has been happening in my flooding or to be prioritised below households. It is the hon. Friend’s constituency and elsewhere, so we will major economic centre of west Yorkshire. certainly encourage that. It is not just us doing that: there is also the work of Mary Dhonau and her Richard Benyon: I absolutely understand that. The organisation. They are trying to provide local flood hon. Gentleman can come to meet me if he wishes to forums with a toolkit they can pick up not only when a hear more details about this. The scheme will cost disaster happens, as with my hon. Friend’s constituents, £250,000 or thereabouts per household it protects. That but in areas that we know are at risk of flooding, which is an enormous amount of money and I do not deny its can be forewarned and better able to cope with flooding importance, particularly to the people of Leeds, but we in future. have to look at it from the perspective of the whole area. If it can unlock regeneration or benefits to that city Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): May I reiterate that there might be opportunities under the new payment- Morpeth is in my constituency? I made that point last for-outcomes scheme. week, but I think I need to re-emphasise it. Having listened to the Minister’s statement, can he reassure me Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): You that the Morpeth flood alleviation scheme, in its entirety, know, Mr Speaker, that I headed up flood risk management will still take place? for the Environment Agency Wales between 2005 and 2010, so I appreciate the relationship between climate Richard Benyon: The hon. Gentleman and I met change and flood risk, which we have seen in New yesterday and I explained to him the complexities of the Orleans. What has happened in Queensland, Australia scheme, which is not going ahead in the current proposals, and in England is not a laughing matter. Will Ministers but will, I am sure, in future. The scheme requires undertake to visit victims and communities who have further work and consideration about areas where it been devastated by flooding that could have been avoided can be provided and give better value for money. had the Minister not cut the revised budget for flood [Interruption.] Some hon. Members are chuntering, defences, which was made after the 2007 floods, and say but if we allow a scheme that does not stack up as well sorry to them? as others to go ahead, other hon. Members will quite rightly come to the House and try to hold me to Richard Benyon: We have visited places that have account by asking, “Why isn’t our scheme going ahead?” been flooded since we came into government. The hon. That has always been the case for Ministers standing Gentleman must understand that I have waded through here. It is important to understand that we have to give houses reeking of sewage and have looked into the eyes best value for money. The hon. Gentleman’s scheme is of families whose houses have been flooded. He does good and I hope that it will go ahead in time. not have to tell me about the misery that flooding Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Given causes those communities—2,500 households in my the constraints on the public finances, can my hon. constituency were flooded in 2007. We understand how Friend confirm that the criteria for judging the schemes important this issue is and he knows that we cannot before him include not only the risk but the costs of protect every house. There are 5.2 million houses at risk. flooding? In Leeds, which is the second-biggest financial centre in the country, those costs would be £500 million. Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Do the criteria also include the economic benefits of Will the Minister take this opportunity to correct the putting in the flood alleviation scheme? In Leeds, the record and confirm that my right hon. Friend the scheme is supported by all the Leeds MPs because it Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), when he was would attract more development to the city. the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, ring-fenced flood defences so that in the last Richard Benyon: I am well aware of the concerns of round of cuts there was no cut in the funding? That is the people of Leeds, which have been well articulated by why this year’s cut is a 27% cut. the Members who represent that city. That scheme is hugely expensive and I do not doubt that it will bring Richard Benyon: A 50% cut and ring-fenced funding benefits to the city. I am happy to meet Members on for the future could not have been defended. That is both sides of the House to discuss it. We want to work absolutely impossible. I honestly urge the hon. Gentleman with the local authority and other agencies to find parts to look at the realities of the situation. There is a of the scheme with which we might proceed sooner 50% capital cut. Whichever party had been in government than others. It will not go from conception to commissioning now would have had to take difficult decisions. We have in one year because it is such a massive scheme, but we protected the floods budget as best we can, and he want to bring it forward as quickly as we can. We have should recognise that. to make sure that we have value for taxpayers’ money at the heart of what we are doing so that we can protect as Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): Has the Environment many homes as possible across the country. Agency’s flood defence scheme for Water End and Leeman road in York, which defends more than 300 low Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): I am grateful income households, been cancelled? It was due to go for those words from the Minister, but is he aware that ahead this year and was funded to go ahead this year. If Leeds city centre came within centimetres of being it has not been cancelled, when will it go ahead? flooded in 2000, according to Environment Agency information, and that it had numerous near misses in Richard Benyon: The scheme has not been cancelled. 2004, 2007 and 2008? Will the Minister agree to meet It has been deferred. There are technical difficulties Leeds MPs to discuss this? Leeds is the largest city in with it. 309 Flood Defence Allocations 9 FEBRUARY 2011 310

Hugh Bayley: How long? Banking Richard Benyon: We will shortly debate the matter in Westminster Hall, when I will be happy to give the hon. 1pm Gentleman more details. I can assure him that the scheme has not been cancelled. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): The near-collapse of the British banking system more than two years ago still generates today deep feelings of anger and cries for retribution. I understand that, for the link between risk and reward that underpins our free market was completely broken. Bankers who had made the most catastrophic mistakes walked away with huge payouts and pensions. Those entrusted by us to regulate those bankers and run our economy washed their hands. Meanwhile the rest of the country is left paying every day for their failures. The new coalition Government must pick up the pieces. Let me set out how we will do that. First, we will make sure that this never happens again. We are replacing entirely the tripartite system of regulation that was introduced by a previous Chancellor and his advisers in 1997, and which completely failed. Next week we will publish the detailed proposals to give the Bank of England responsibility for prudential regulation, and to create a new consumer protection and markets authority that will protect the interests of bank customers. We will then undertake pre-legislative scrutiny, as requested by the House, before introducing the Bill. I hope it will command support from both sides. Later this year we will receive the interim and final reports of the Independent Banking Commission that this Government established, and which I asked Sir John Vickers to chair. Sir John and his fellow commissioners are asking the difficult questions that need to be asked about how we protect the British taxpayer from future bank failures so that never again is a bank too big to fail. We look forward to receiving their recommendations. I should make it very clear that nothing that I will say today about the settlement that we have reached with Britain’s banks, including references to a level playing field, in any way prejudges the outcome of the commission. That includes both the commission’s recommendations and the Government’s response. The second task facing the Government is to make sure that we get the maximum sustainable tax revenues from the financial sector. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs confirms that the one-off bank payroll tax introduced in the dying months of the previous Government raised £2.3 billion net, but as my predecessor—the Chancellor who introduced the tax—has pointed out, it could not be repeated without massive tax avoidance. I agree with him and we will not repeat the bank payroll tax. Instead, we have implemented a new and permanent bank levy, and that is why yesterday I announced an increase in that levy so that it raises £2.5 billion this year. This will bring the total raised by the new bank levy to £10 billion over the Parliament, and it means that in each and every year of this Government we will raise more in bank taxes than the previous Government raised in any single year. We have also required all the major banks operating in the UK to comply in spirit and by the letter with the code of practice on taxation. The code was announced with a fanfare by the previous 311 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 312

[Mr George Osborne] this year. That compares with five individuals in the United States of America and Hong Kong, and only Government, but I discovered that when they left office board executives in Germany and Japan. By disclosing only two banks had signed up to it. Today all the major individual pay levels the settlement goes further than banks have signed. the Walker report recommended, on which we are seeking The third task facing the new Government was to international agreement. reach a new settlement with the banks so that they We will consult on whether to make it a mandatory could contribute to Britain’s economic recovery. Some requirement from 2012 on all large UK banks to publish prominent people in the House were predicting just the pay of the board plus the eight highest paid senior 24 hours ago that my tax announcement meant that our executive officers. That would mean that Britain had discussions with the banks on lending were falling the toughest and most transparent pay regime of any apart. The House will be pleased to know that that major financial centre in the world. prediction was completely wrong. This morning the Let me provide an update on the situation at the heads of the major British banks—Barclays, RBS, Lloyds Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds. The previous and HSBC—reached a new settlement with the Government signed an agreement with RBS that explicitly Government. I want to thank John Varley, the former said that it would in 2010 chief executive of Barclays, for the huge amount of time and personal commitment that he has given to this “enable pay arrangements in line with the market”. project. Despite that constraint, which we inherited from the The essentials of the new settlement are exactly as I previous Government, United Kingdom Financial set out last month, and I am today publishing an Investments Ltd, the arm’s length body which manages exchange of letters between John Varley and myself. the Government’s stake in those two banks, has agreed The banks will lend more money, especially to small the following: for all staff at RBS and Lloyds, the business; pay more taxes; pay less bonuses; be more maximum up-front cash bonuses will be limited to a transparent about the bonuses that they do pay; and maximum of £2,000 this year; all executive directors, make a greater contribution to our regional economy including the chief executives, have agreed to receive and society. In return the Government commit to the this year’s bonuses entirely in the form of shares; and success of a strong, resilient, stable and globally competitive directors will have to wait until 2013 to convert these financial services sector in which UK banks can compete shares into cash. with the best banks in the world on a level playing field, As the Prime Minister made clear last month, the and in which London is a world centre for finance. That bonuses at RBS and Lloyds will in total be smaller than is good for jobs and growth in our country. they were last year under the previous Government and Let me go through each part in detail, starting with so, crucially, will the compensation ratios be. They will pay and bonuses. Most of us find the levels of pay in backmarkers in the industry, instead of the front runners financial services to be completely out of kilter with that they once were. what the rest of society would regard as fair or reasonable. Let me turn from pay to the additional support that We are determined to bring responsibility and constraint, the British banks have committed today to provide to and make sure that pay is properly taxed. Four years the regional economy. At the end of last year the ago, at the height of the banking boom, the City paid industry pledged £1.5 billion to a new business growth £11.5 billion in banking bonuses, most of which was in fund, which will invest in the kinds of expanding small cash, most of which could not be recovered when the businesses that hold the key to Britain’s more balanced banks collapsed, and too much of which went untaxed. economic future. Today they commit to make an additional The new remuneration code introduced last month and £1.2 billion contribution to society. The four major the tax avoidance measures that we are taking will banks commit to an additional £l billion for the fund change that. and an additional £200 million to capitalise the big Today I can tell the House that the four major British society bank. The business growth fund contribution banks have also agreed that total bonuses for their will be front-loaded over the next couple of years, so UK-based staff will be lower than last year and lower that more help can be given to businesses sooner. This than they would have been without today’s settlement. money will be in addition to the lending commitments The independent non-executive director who chairs each and additional to any funding already allocated from bank’s remuneration committee will have to confirm dormant bank accounts. personally in writing to the Financial Services Authority Finally, at the heart of today’s settlement is a commitment that their pay deal conforms with today’s commitments. from the four major banks, as well as Santander, to For the first time, the banks have agreed to seek explicit make much more money available for lending to small approval from their board’s remuneration committee and medium-sized business. Last year these banks lent for the pay of the 10 highest paid employees in each of £66 billion to such businesses. Today the banks commit their main business units. That did not happen in banks to lend £76 billion this year. That is £10 billion more such as the Royal Bank of Scotland before the crisis, gross new lending to small and medium-sized businesses, where the board was ignorant of what was going on. a massive 15% increase, materially higher than they had We have also insisted that the banks be far more been planning to lend this year and materially higher transparent about who and how they pay. From this than anyone who has followed these discussions would year onwards, the four major banks have committed to have expected. It comes alongside a very welcome disclose the pay details not just of their executive board commitment from the banks greatly to improve their members, but of the top five highest paid executives not customer service to small businesses, with a free mentoring on the board. This will mean that the salary details of at service, published lending principles, transparent appeals least seven executives at each bank will be published and improved access to trade finance. Overall, gross 313 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 314 new lending to all businesses, large and small, will has got wet. That is this Chancellor all over. This increase from £179 billion to £190 billion, and the negotiation has turned from Project Merlin into “The banks will make a commitment to lend even more if Wizard of Oz”: the curtain has been pulled back and demand materialises. there is nothing there. Of the leading players on the Absent this deal, the banks were actually expecting Government Front Bench, who is the one without courage, lending to fall this year. To ensure that progress against who is the one without a brain and who is the one these lending commitments can be monitored, the Bank without a heart? of England has agreed to collect the relevant data and Let us review what the Chancellor has achieved. On publish them quarterly. To help to ensure that today’s lending, he claims to have secured an agreement with agreement is honoured, for the first time the pay of the the banks to lend £190 billion this year, but financial chief executives of each bank, as well as of the relevant experts are clear that the deal he has announced is business area leaders, will be linked to their performance vague, toothless and unenforceable and not a proper against these SME lending targets. Of course, if the substitute for proper competition. How will he be able banks fail even then to live up to their promises, the to measure in detail whether the deal is delivered? Can Government reserve the right to return to the issue and he tell us the detail of how it will be enforced? Is there a take further measures, but I sincerely hope that will not sanction if the lending does not materialise? Was not a be necessary. senior banker right when he told the Daily Mail on The anger at the terrible mistakes of the banking Monday that this lending agreement is “meaningless”? industry and the failure of those who regulated it will Is not the Financial Times right to say today: long remain, and rightly so, but let us as a country “With much noisy showmanship, the Conservative-Liberal Democrat confront this hard truth: anger and retribution will not coalition is puffing demands that are little more than cosmetic”? bring one percentage point of economic growth or Is not that the truth? create one single new job. The anger will remain, and I On pay transparency, again we have a damp squib. understand that, and we must never make the same The Chancellor claims that we will now have the most mistakes again, but Britain needs to move from retribution open regime in the world, but what does it actually add to recovery. Today we get the banks to commit, with up to? The answer is transparency for pay and remuneration more lending—£10 billion more for small businesses—more of only the seven most senior bank executives, whose for our regional economies and society, £10 billion anonymity is still fully protected. The Government are more in bank taxes, lower bonuses and the most transparent demanding that local authorities publish the salaries of pay regime in the world. In return, let us build a banking anyone in local government earning more than £58,200, industry that creates jobs for hundreds of thousands of but he is allowing a taxpayer-owned bank and publically our citizens and that competes in the world. Above all, quoted companies in the financial sector to continue to let us ensure that the economic catastrophe that befell pay staff millions of pounds in pay and bonuses with no this country can never be repeated. That is how this new transparency at all. Government will clean up the mistakes of the previous Government. I commend this statement to the House. Why is the Chancellor not activating the legislation that we put on the statute book that would require the Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): Given publication of the remuneration of any individual paid that this statement was not on the Order Paper, I thank more than £1 million? It is there on the statute book the Chancellor for the eight minutes’ advance notice he and ready to go, so why not just sign the order and get gave me of it. Yesterday, he confirmed in his “Today” on with it? Why has he failed so abjectly to make any programme mini-Budget that he is cutting taxes for the progress in international negotiations with European banks this year, compared to last year. [Interruption.] and global Governments on transparency? There has Today we find out what the Chancellor has got in return been no progress because there is no sign that he has from the banks, after weeks and months of negotiations even tried. with the UK banking industry, culminating in the complete On bonuses, I am afraid that the country will conclude shambles of the past 24 hours, and the result is: precious that the Chancellor has thrown in the towel in the face little. From a Chancellor who talked so tough in opposition of extensive lobbying by people with whom he and his and who even yesterday continued to promise much, Conservative colleagues have just become too close and this is a pitiful outcome and an embarrassing climbdown. too cosy. Does he remember what the Prime Minister [Interruption.] said just two years ago—when Leader of the Opposition— when attacking the previous Government? He said: Mr Speaker: Order. Earlier I made it clear that heckling “Because of this dithering we could see bonuses paid out for a and abuse of the Prime Minister when he was answering second year to executives in taxpayer owned banks, which is questions should not take place and that his answers unacceptable.” would be heard. I say to hon. Members who are now After months of dithering from this Chancellor, what heckling the shadow Chancellor, stop it. It is a disgrace. will we see over the next fortnight? We will see exactly The public loathe it. Do not imagine for one moment that: bonuses running into millions of pounds, in cash that while screaming abuse you have the slightest prospect and shares, paid to executives in taxpayer-owned banks. of being invited to ask a question. Behave and get the What he should be doing today is announcing proper message. reform of corporate governance and taking up our proposal to repeat last year’s £3.5 billion bank bonus Ed Balls: Thank you, Mr Speaker. They tend to tax, in addition to his levy, and use the money to heckle when they are worried. support jobs and growth to kick-start his stalled recovery. A “damp squib”is defined in the dictionary as something I have told the Chancellor that I will support him on potentially explosive but that fails to perform because it long-term banking reform, enforceable lending agreements 315 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 316

[Ed Balls] right?—unless he has changed his mind on that. [Interruption.] He now supports it. Well, that is good and proper statutory action on transparency and pay. news. Our economy badly needs a reformed, transformed, Perhaps, then, the right hon. Gentleman will listen to vibrant and globally competitive financial services industry the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West for the future. He is right that hundreds of thousands of (Mr Darling). The right hon. Member for Morley and jobs depend upon it. However, this is not an agreement Outwood (Ed Balls) quoted quite a lot from the newspapers to secure the long-term future of our economy, but a in his reply. Well, this is from The Daily Telegraph: short-term and shabby political deal. There have been “Bankers’ bonus tax failed, admits Alistair Darling,” talks that dragged on for weeks, a mini-Budget on the who said: “Today” programme, crisis conference calls with the “I think it will be a one-off thing because, frankly, the very banks yesterday afternoon, a hasty compromise cooked people you are after here are very good at getting out of these up overnight and a Chancellor finally coming to the things and...will find all sorts of imaginative ways of avoiding it House with little to offer in return for his tax cuts for in the future.” the banks. That is from the then Chancellor who actually introduced I have to say that this is a Chancellor who, as the the tax on which the right hon. Gentleman now pins his former CBI head has said, puts politics before economics. entire economic prospects. He talked tough in opposition, but in government he Let me end by saying this: the right hon. Gentleman looks increasingly out of his depth and out of touch. calls for things that he simply did not do in government. We have rising VAT, rising fuel prices, rising unemployment On pay and bonuses, he says control them in the nationalised and deep spending cuts hitting living standards of families, banks; he did not do that last year when he was in the and yet his first priority is a tax cut for the banks. Cabinet, and he did not do it at all when he was in the Millions of families up and down the country will now Treasury. He calls for transparency; he did not introduce be asking, whose side is this Government on? it when he was in the Cabinet or in the Treasury. He talks about reforming the banking system; he is the Mr Osborne: Well, that has to be one of the feeblest person who designed the banking regulatory system replies to a statement that I have heard. The only person that failed, but he does not admit it. He talks about the who seems to be out of his depth at the moment, rather bank levy; he wrote 11 Budgets and never put one in. surprisingly, is the shadow Chancellor. There was one And on lending, he tried as a member of the Government thing missing from that rant: an apology. He was the to secure lending agreements throughout the banks, City Minister. I will move on to all the things that we and he completely failed. The truth is this that he is a need to do to regulate the City, but I will first remind man running away from his past, with no plan for the him that he stood at this Dispatch Box for two years as future. City Minister and could have done any of the things that were either in my statement or in his reply, but he Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): Anybody looking did not. The truth is that he is man with a past, and we reasonably at the settlement will have to agree that it is a will not let him forget it—even if he does. I took the welcome step in the right direction. In normal times, opportunity to look at his website on which he lists all Governments should not intervene to force banks to his achievements in politics, but he does not mention lend or to reveal commercial details of pay, and I very the fact that he was City Minister. He does not mention much hope the Chancellor will confirm that it is a the fact that he invented the system of City regulation one-off, with one exception. Does he not agree that, that failed so spectacularly. He might have forgotten without further transparency on bonuses, we will never what he did not do in government; we will not. know whether banks are fuelling risks and mistakes for Let me deal specifically with some of the right hon. which one day, as a result of the way they misallocate Gentleman’s questions. He asks how the lending targets risk, we may have to pay? Will he also support the will be monitored. I told him in the statement that the Treasury Committee’s initiative, outlined in a letter to Bank of England is going to monitor them. [Interruption.] the Financial Services Authority, and supported by “How are they going to be enforced?”, Opposition Sir David Walker, to secure that much higher level of Members cry. The chief executive’s pay will be linked to transparency? the targets, and I made it very clear in the statement that, of course, if the deal is not met we will return to Mr Osborne: I thank the Chair of the Treasury the issue. Committee for the welcome that he gives to the package. The right hon. Gentleman talks about transparency. Of course, in any normal times one would not want to In 13 years, the previous Government never implemented have to negotiate lending agreements with the banks or, transparency in the City of London. Some £11.5 billion indeed, be in a situation where half our banking sector of bonuses were paid in the year in which he was the was in part in the public’s hands, but that is the situation City Minister, but we are introducing the most transparent that we inherited as a Government and why I felt that regime of any major financial centre in the world. the agreement with the banks was necessary, as well as The right hon. Gentleman continues deliberately— the additional tax that we are levying on them. because I know he must know the numbers—to get the My hon. Friend specifically raises the issue of sums wrong on the bank payroll tax and bank levy. Her transparency and his proposals that I know he has put Majesty’s Revenue and Customs confirmed that there is to the FSA. As I said in my statement, we have a a £2.3 billion net receipt from the bank payroll tax, and voluntary agreement this year on disclosure, which already that is spelled out in the March 2010 Budget book, goes beyond those of other financial centres in the which the Labour Government published. We are raising world, but, having consulted, we will legislate in the £2.5 billion every year from a bank levy that he opposes— coming year, and his proposals will deserve close attention. 317 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 318

Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): increase. Alongside that—I did not have time to go into Will the Chancellor confirm that, as a result of his all the detail, but it is being published this afternoon—there Herculean efforts in this struggle with the banks, the will be a new code of practice for the banks to treat names of the traders who are still going to be awarded their customers much more fairly: for example, they the greatest bonuses will not be made public? should engage with small businesses a full year before an overdraft comes up for renewal. For me, dealing with Mr Osborne: The disclosure will be of those senior that crucial area of the economy—getting credit to executives not on the board, but in the Walker proposals small and medium-sized businesses—has been one of there was not even a proposal to identify individual the most important parts of the new settlement. salaries. So it is the senior executives who will be identified. Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab): We now have the Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): I welcome big society shrinking before our eyes, and voluntary what the Chancellor says about the levy, the extra organisations seeing their budgets cut left, right and lending, the transparency on bonuses and, in particular, centre. At the same time, we still have bankers’ bonuses the restraint shown by the two banks that are effectively well beyond most people’s dreams, and on top of that under state control. On the banks that are not under we learn today that the City and organisations in it, as our control, however, does he agree that, at a time when my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) families throughout the country face difficulties, some pointed out, have been stuffing money into the Tory banks seem to have lost their moral compass and really party’s coffers. Is this a series of coincidences, or should ought not to award themselves extravagant bonuses on the public be more suspicious? a level that families could only dream of?

Mr Osborne: I agree with my hon. Friend that the Mr Osborne: I just pointed out that a Lehman Brothers banks should show restraint and an appreciation of the executive was one of the biggest donors to the shadow society in which they operate, the challenges that we Chancellor’s campaign, and I think the hon. Member face with the economy and, indeed, the squeeze on for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) shouted at that point, “Well, families’ incomes, in part due to the high prices of I didn’t vote for him.” [Interruption.] He repeats it; in things such as oil and food. I make this observation: the fact, he probably did not vote for the Labour party bonuses this year will be lower than those in the last leader, because as far as I can tell virtually no Labour year of the Labour Government; and, as a result of this MP did. That brings me to this point: the key thing agreement, they will also be lower than they would have about the Labour party and its fundraising is that it gets been, a point that will be confirmed by the independent money from the trade unions and changes policy as a non-executive director of the individual bank. result.

Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Why should Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): On behalf of anybody believe that the Chancellor of the Exchequer the small businesses and voluntary sector in my constituency, has got the guts to take on the banks, when today it is may I thank the Chancellor for his announcements revealed that he and his friends in the Tory party—those about the business growth fund and the big society on millionaires’ row—have picked up £44 million from bank? Is not the reason why the shadow Chancellor’s those bankers in the City? Why should we believe all statement was so empty that the Opposition realise that this rubbish? they did nothing so constructive during their 13 years in government? Mr Osborne: I thought that the hon. Gentleman might ask a question like that, so I did a bit of research and discovered that one of the biggest donors to the Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend makes the very good shadow Chancellor’s party leadership campaign was a point that we need to see more support for small and Michael Sanzone, who started off at ABN Amro, moved medium-sized businesses in our constituencies and in to RBS and ended up at Lehman Brothers before our economy. The regional business fund that I talked supporting his campaign. They are probably the four about, to which the banks have today made a commitment most catastrophic decisions of recent years. of an additional £1 billion, is very important because it addresses one of the weaknesses in the British economy— Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): That gentleman was the absence of support, particularly equity support, for probably expecting a knighthood and a peerage, like so small, expanding businesses. I think that this will make many of them had in the past. Have we not moved on a significant contribution to that. from excessive bonuses to an emphasis on lending more money to small and medium-sized enterprises? Are we Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): I thank the not seeing £10 billion for SMEs and £2.5 billion in total Chancellor for his statement and for the early advance for the new growth fund? sight of it. I agree with what he said about the public’s response to the high levels of pay, which are not fair and Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. For reasonable and are not seen to be so. I welcome the very me, in these discussions the absolute key has been the low cash bonuses for RBS and Lloyds staff and the additional commitment to lend to small and medium-sized decision for executive bonuses to be paid in shares only. businesses. Over the past couple of years, all Members May I suggest that that should rolled out to every bank have had people in our constituencies come to us with every year as a matter of course? On the new bank very difficult stories about the failure of banks to lend lending, will he confirm that it will really be new, that it to such businesses, and we now have a commitment to will go to the businesses that need it most, and that we increase the lending available by 15%, which is a substantial will not be locked into excessive fees and charges? 319 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 320

Mr Osborne: I thank the hon. Gentleman for the they explicitly told RBS that from 2010 it should pay in support he has given to important parts of this package. line with the market rate. We have now got it to be at the I understand how important the banking industry is to back of the market, not the front. Scotland, where many thousands of people are employed in it, and the impact that the failure of RBS and HBOS Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): Like other had in Scotland. On his specific point about bonuses, Members, I welcome the move on lending to small the new code of practice that came in last month forces businesses. The Federation of Small Businesses, the all banks to pay a much greater proportion of their chambers of commerce and independent businesses bonuses in shares and in deferred packages. Of course, have been arguing for some time that good businesses none of this existed when Labour was regulating the that are viable but have cash-flow problems have been City. As I have said, I would urge the banks to show struggling as a result of the policy of the banks under restraint and reflect the fact that they are operating in a the previous Government. Given that this new move society with economic challenges brought about by the will allow those businesses to survive, and indeed grow, deepest recession and the biggest banking crisis of our to the benefit of the economy, does the Chancellor lifetimes. agree that it is somewhat surprising, if not disappointing, that the shadow Chancellor and Labour Members have Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Let me tell not welcomed it? the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) that my constituents and I can only dream of living in the Mr Osborne: It is surprising. I noticed that in the £1.6 million house that his party leader lives in. shadow Chancellor’s rather extraordinary response there I welcome the Chancellor’s statement on lending to was no mention of lending. Indeed, I am not even sure small businesses and curbing banking bonuses. However, what the Labour party’s plan is to get the banks to lend with Lloyds TSB closing its last remaining branch in more and whether Labour Members welcome this move Meltham and Barclays closing its branch in Milnsbridge, or not. I know for a fact that the previous Labour when he next meets the banking bosses will he please Government tried to negotiate a cross-bank agreement stress the importance of community banking and the on gross lending, and failed. One would have thought, fact that not all constituents have access to internet therefore, that they would welcome this, but they have banking? not done so. My hon. Friend makes the good point that the key is to get lending to small businesses going, Mr Osborne: When I next talk to the banking chiefs, I which is where the market failure has been over the past will certainly communicate to them, or my office will do couple of years. That is absolutely crucial to our economic so, the specific issues that my hon. Friend raises about recovery. the two banks in his constituency. One of the challenges we have at the moment is that RBS and Lloyds are Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): Now that the trying to de-lever because of the enormous mess they Chancellor is into transparency on salaries, can he, as got into under the previous Government. More generally, the largest shareholder in RBS, the bailed-out bank, tell he makes a very good point about the importance of the House whether it is true, as the Financial Times has community banking. The four banks that have reached suggested, that 100 bankers are earning more than £1 this settlement today are committed to extending that million? If not, how many are? and thereby, to a degree, rolling back what happened in recent years. There are also those who want to enter the Mr Osborne: The transparency arrangements are the banking sector. Of course, they have comply with the ones that I have set out, and the arrangements for FSA requirements, but I know that some of them are managing RBS are the ones put in place by the Government offering a return to the kind of community banking of whom he was a Whip. that he talked about. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): The Chancellor Many hard-working families and people in my constituency compares the funding given to the Labour party by will welcome today’s announcements. Does the Chancellor trade unionists with the 50% of donations to his party agree that the banks have a moral responsibility to from the City, but I remind him that it was the bankers invest in areas such as the west midlands and the black who caused this crisis, not millions of hard-working country, where we need the private sector jobs growth trade unionists. that is vital for the future? An FSA report found that RBS had 1.1 million customer complaints, more than 50% of which were not Mr Osborne: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. dealt with appropriately, resulting in a £2.8 million fine. There is a preponderance of small and medium-sized Does the Chancellor think it is right to reward failure manufacturing businesses in the west midlands and the with lavish bonuses, whether in cash or in shares? black country, as I know from my various visits there. These are precisely the sort of firms that we need to Mr Osborne: It was the last Labour Government who help and assist, and this agreement means that more were responsible for the economic mess that we got lending will be available to them. As I say, there is also a ourselves into, and the sooner Labour Members face up commitment to a regional business support fund that to that, the better. One example of that was the will provide equity investment to help those small and arrangements put in place regarding RBS, to which the medium-sized firms to become bigger firms, which is hon. Gentleman referred. That is the contract that we what the British economy needs so that we do not, as we inherited from Labour; this is what the then Ministers did in the past 10 years, depend on one sector, in one who now sit on the shadow Front Bench signed up to: corner of the country, for our economic growth. 321 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 322

John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): Is the Chancellor confident David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): I welcome the enough to predict that as a consequence of this package announcement on the increase in funding for the business there will be more small businesses on the high streets of growth fund and the new lending agreements. Does my Retford, Worksop and Harworth at the end of this right hon. Friend agree that those steps will help to year? establish a new generation of wealth creators, which is an urgent priority in regions such as the north-west, Mr Osborne: I am confident about saying that the where private sector growth has to be the focus? situation for small and medium-sized businesses in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and elsewhere will improve. Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is right, which is good The situation is not going to be transformed overnight— as he is my local MP. One of the weaknesses in the [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd British economy over recent years has been that small (Chris Ruane) and others seem to have complete amnesia and medium-sized businesses have not had access to about the fact that Labour presided over the biggest venture capital and other sources of funding, as they banking crisis and the deepest recession since the 1930s. have had in countries such as the United States and Labour Members got elected on the slogan crafted by Germany, so that they can become larger companies. the shadow Chancellor, “No more boom and bust”, The regional business growth fund that I have spoken and then gave us the biggest boom and the biggest bust, about will provide more access to such funding. I will and we are recovering the economy from the mess that also return to this issue in the Budget. they left. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I Several hon. Members rose— believe that I was the first MP to raise the issue of bankers’ bonuses in this House five years ago, and I was Mr Speaker: Order. There is clearly a great deal of critical of the previous Government. I say to the Chancellor interest. May I gently remind the House that Members directly that referring pay to remuneration committees, who came into the Chamber after the statement began which is a largely toothless and ineffective rubber-stamping should not expect to be called? The position on this is exercise, and allowing bankers at RBS to convert their very clear and long established, and it must be adhered shares into cash bonuses within two years will not to. assuage the anger of the British people.

Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): Thank Mr Osborne: First, I respect the hon. Gentleman’s you, Mr Speaker. consistency on this issue. Secondly, I said explicitly that “If the City is doing well, the country is doing well. When it I did not think that the anger would disappear any time prospers, we all prosper”. soon; memories will be long of what has gone wrong in They are not my words but those of the shadow Chancellor. recent years. It will help that bank boards will at least be Did my right hon. Friend take any advice from him? aware of the some of the salaries that are being paid in their organisations, which they simply were not under Mr Osborne: No, instead I learned from the example the previous regime. That is one thing that clearly went of all the things that went wrong when the shadow wrong at the Royal Bank of Scotland. Chancellor was City Minister. As one does on these occasions, I came into the Chamber armed with many Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): A man of his quotes about what a golden legacy he was leaving named Tom Bell set up a charity in my constituency to in the City, how bonuses were at the appropriate level, improve the quality of life for tens of thousands of and how he was going to resist all calls in Parliament to disabled and disadvantaged kids. He was awarded the toughen up regulation. It would take a couple of hours OBE for his efforts. In assessing the rewards given to to read them all out, but no doubt over the next few bankers, what does the Chancellor make of the five years we will have plenty of opportunities to remind peerages, eight knighthoods, seven CBEs, four OBEs him that he is a man with a past. and four MBEs that were given to bankers by the Labour Government? Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): I understand that the business growth fund will have a Mr Osborne: The statistics speak for themselves. Of network of regional offices throughout the UK. Will course, the shadow Chancellor used to be the chief there be such an office in Northern Ireland to work with economic adviser and, given that almost everything at the banking sector, the business community and the the Treasury was signed off by him, he presumably Northern Ireland Executive? signed off the knighthood for Sir Fred Goodwin. Perhaps in one of our future encounters we will hear the truth Mr Osborne: Yes, I will ensure that there will be a about that. presence in Northern Ireland. We are seeking to ensure that there is co-ordination between the business growth Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab): Some fund and the Government’s regional fund. As I have £125 billion was put into the banks by the last Labour said on many occasions to Members from Northern Government to bail them out in the crisis. Will the Ireland, we are acutely aware of the challenges in Northern Chancellor tell us when the taxpayer will get that money Ireland. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland back? has produced a paper on how we might revive the Northern Ireland economy, which is now with the devolved Mr Osborne: Unfortunately, if we sold those shares Government. I am taking a close personal interest in today, we would lose money as a country. Of course we that and I hope shortly to come forward, with my right want to return those banks to the private sector. That is hon. Friend, with some concrete proposals. clearly an objective of this Government, and I suspect 323 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 324

[Mr George Osborne] Mr Osborne: I assure my hon. Friend that that issue has been at the heart of the discussions. As I have said, that it will be an important issue in this Chamber that is why we have put such an emphasis on getting a during this Parliament. The hon. Gentleman makes a commitment to increased lending to small and medium- very good point: a huge sum of money was put in to sized businesses. There will be a new code for banks, bail out the banks and no conditions were attached. under which they will have to treat their customers With all the things that I have talked about today and much more fairly, be more reasonable and transparent all the things that the shadow Chancellor asked about, about the terms that they offer, and engage with customers such as pay and transparency, when the previous long before overdrafts and the like need to be renewed. Government had the leverage, they did not use it. Unfortunately, we have to deal with that inheritance. Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): I thank the Chancellor for the reassurance he gave to the hon. Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): Yesterday, Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie). As he knows, before the Public Accounts Committee, Treasury civil Northern Ireland has a very discrete banking sector, servants explained that the previous Government had which has been heavily affected by the Irish banking the opportunity to seek to put constraints on this year’s crisis, as well as by the UK banking crisis. Will he bonuses at the partly state-owned banks, but that they ensure that businesses and individuals in Northern Ireland chose not to. Is the Chancellor disappointed by that? benefit from the announcement he has made today with regard to both lending and regulation? Mr Osborne: I am not only disappointed by it; it has been a constraint in what we have been dealing with. It Mr Osborne: As I said to the hon. Lady’s colleague is very explicit—[Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor from Northern Ireland, I am paying particular attention says this is rubbish, but that was the agreement that he to the Northern Ireland economy, partly because of and his colleagues signed up to. That is the problem on what has happened in the Republic of Ireland. I am also this issue, and I think that that is beginning to dawn on paying particular attention to the Northern Ireland them. They have a past—they have a record. It is a banking system, because there is the potential for a record of letting the City get away with murder, and of knock-on effect from what has happened in southern the rest of us having to pick up the pieces. Ireland. As I said, I am working closely with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on what we can do to stimulate growth in Northern Ireland. Finally, despite Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Following their questions, I welcome the support I have received the statement on bankers’ bonuses, how would the from some Opposition parties in the House. That reflects Chancellor respond to the one in ten of my constituents on the fact that although the statement does not contain who are unemployed and looking for work; the many everything that people want, it is a positive step forward. low-paid workers who face real reductions in their It also shows how opportunistic the opposition of the living standards over the next few years; and the many former Labour Government is. public sector workers who face the possibility of redundancy? Please do not respond by saying, “We’re all in this together.” Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): Does the Chancellor welcome, as I do, the assessment of the Centre for Economics and Business Research that for Mr Osborne: To repeat what I said in my statement, I the first time ever, bankers will pay more in tax than completely understand the anger and resentment felt by they take home from their bonuses? the many people who have lost their job or faced their income being squeezed because of the mess that was Mr Osborne: I do welcome that research. We need to created in the British economy by the banking system ensure that we get the tax revenues up. We have introduced and those who were regulating it. That is the situation the permanent bank levy, which was opposed by the we are dealing with. My priority today has been to put Labour party. We have forced the banks to sign up to the economic recovery first and to ensure that we get the code of practice, which Labour announced in a banks to lend to small and medium-sized businesses, so fanfare from this Dispatch Box, but managed to get that they can take on the people the hon. Gentleman is only two banks to sign up to—we have got all the banks talking about. Small and medium-sized businesses are to sign up. We are looking at the tax avoidance measures the engine of job creation in the British economy and that have been used, such as disguised remuneration, they are crucial to our revival. It is also crucial that we which the previous Government had 13 years to address, rebalance the economy so that we are not as dependent but failed to do. as we were on the success of the financial services sector. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Not every worker in a bank is on a multi-million salary. Clerical, Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): I congratulate back office and counter staff frequently earn well under the Chancellor on securing the banks’ commitment to £20,000 a year. Is the Chancellor confident that these increased lending to small and medium-sized enterprises. measures will begin to reduce pay inequality in the However, the banks’ aggressive treatment of SMEs, banking sector, and will he have discussions with senior many of which are almost being bullied into accepting bankers about worker representation on remuneration new lending terms, fees and charges, is still an issue that committees? is damaging the potential for growth in our economy. Has the Chancellor discussed that issue with the banks Mr Osborne: I am certainly happy to raise the issue during this process, and what do the banks intend to do about representation that the hon. Lady mentions, but— about it? [Interruption.] These people seem to forget that they 325 Banking9 FEBRUARY 2011 Banking 326 were running the country for 13 years and had every Mr Osborne: I must say that it is a slightly depressing chance to do the things that they complain about now, thought that the appointment of the hon. Member for and they completely failed. Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) as shadow Parliamentary To return to what the hon. Lady said, I will raise the Private Secretary means that this will be a constant specific issue of the representation of workers within feature of the encounters in the House between me and the banks. As I have said, most people, including myself, the shadow Chancellor, but there we go. find some of the levels of pay in the financial services My hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Christopher sector extraordinary. We are seeking to start to constrain Pincher) makes a very good point. There are, of course, them, although we obviously have greater control over legions of quotes from former Labour Ministers including the semi-nationalised banks. I hope that we are also the shadow Chancellor about the light-touch regime, ensuring that we get the tax revenues required to help how they were resisting calls in Parliament to strengthen pay off the nation’s credit card, the budget deficit. it and all of that. Quite a few of them, of course, have gone off to work in the banking sector since leaving Parliament. Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): Like many hon. Members, I welcome the Chancellor’s getting greater Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Does the Chancellor lending from the banks for small businesses, but can he not accept that he may be overselling as transparency assure us that there is proper competition within the something that is really just temporary and limited banking sector, so that money is lent at competitive translucency on bonuses, credit and lending to business? rates? That is one of the problems that businesses in my What guarantees are there that the Bank of England constituency are having: they cannot get the money at will not just report on the aggregate of the money the proper rate. available but will examine the prices and conditions involved? Will he also guarantee that if businesses are Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is right that competition relieved by credit granted, they will not be floored by in the banking industry is very important. In the past tax demanded? two or three years we have seen a massive consolidation Mr Osborne: First, on transparency, at the moment of the banking industry, with many of the building we have a voluntary commitment by the largest British societies being folded into the larger banks. HBOS banks, and we are going to turn that into a legislative disappeared, for understandable reasons, Northern Rock requirement on all the major banks operating in the had to be nationalised and so on. One of the remits of UK. We will bring forward proposals over the coming the Vickers commission, the Independent Commission year to consult on that, as we have to do under the statutory on Banking, is to examine competition in the sector, procedures, but my intention has been made clear. and of course John Vickers himself has personal experience Bank charges and so on are properly not a responsibility of competition issues. That was one reason why I asked of the Bank of England at the moment. It is going to him to take up the post. The commission is examining focus on collecting the numbers. However, we are creating the specific issue that my hon. Friend raises. a strong consumer protection and markets authority—there will be legislation before the House on that, and a very Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): good chief executive-designate has been hired. He will On the Chancellor’s aspiration to have an extra £10 billion ensure that the customer gets a fair deal as well. lent by the banks to UK SMEs, may I ask him how that figure was arrived at? Is it what he considers is lacking Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Will the in the economy, or is it all he could prise from his Chancellor put a cap on the value of the shares that friends? Is it gross or net? bank executives give themselves as bonuses, or will shares now be seen as a Trojan horse for bankers to give themselves still greater bonuses in future? Mr Osborne: The number is gross, like the lending targets agreed by the previous Government for the Mr Osborne: As I have explained, bonuses are actually nationalised banks, but this is, of course, an agreement going to be lower this year than they were in the last across the banking sector. The number was part of the year of the Labour Government, who had an opportunity hard negotiations that we had in order to get the to do something about them. amount up. The banks were anticipating reducing lending Yes, bonuses will increasingly be paid in shares, and in the British economy over the coming year, and we for a very good reason—so that when the bank goes have reversed that and got a 15% increase in small and bust, people will not walk away with a huge payment. medium-sized business lending. We remember not just Fred Goodwin’s knighthood but the pension that the Labour party awarded him. It was Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): In the light completely unable to deal with the fact that the bankers of his statement and what he has heard from the Opposition in the banks that went bust walked away with their Front Bench, will my right hon. Friend give any further money. One of the reasons for paying bonuses in shares, consideration to the warning offered by a certain soi-disant and why we have introduced the code, is so that the financial journalist who said that nothing must be done bankers, too, will pay a price if the bank in which they to endanger a light-touch, risk-based regulatory regime? are involved fails. [Interruption.] Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): The education maintenance allowance costs £580 million a year, a Mr Speaker: Order. I must just say to the hon. Member fraction of the cash that the Chancellor could be raising for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) that I do not know from the banks. Why is he taking more money from what he has for breakfast, but I think I am going to young people’s EMA and other things affecting their avoid it. lives than he is taking from the banks? 327 Banking 9 FEBRUARY 2011 328

Mr Osborne: First, we are taking £2.5 billion from Trade and Investment for Growth White the banks each year, which is more in each year than in Paper any of the Labour Government’s 13 years. Of course, the context of all this is the enormous budget deficit. It 1.57 pm is worth reminding Opposition Members that in eight The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and weeks’ time, the Darling plan would have started to take Skills (Vince Cable): Today I turn to one of the main effect—the halving of the budget deficit in four years, building blocks of economic recovery—achieving growth which they kept repeating in the election and which the through international trade and by attracting inward shadow Chancellor was apparently forced to sign up to. investment. Britain makes up just 4% of the global In eight weeks’ time the big cuts would have come, economy, and without aligning ourselves to faster growth which would have been £2 billion less than the cuts elsewhere, we cannot hope to prosper. But to do that, being undertaken by the coalition Government. We we have to do better than in the past. In the past few have eight weeks to hear Labour’s plan for where the decades, we have consumed too much and exported too cuts would fall. little. While our competitors were sending manufactures across the globe, we were building a property bubble. Now, with Germany exporting more than three times as much as the UK, it is vital to turn the situation round. We have done better in attracting inward investment. We are one of the top three recipients of foreign investment in the world, and we are home to more European headquarters of overseas companies than all other European countries put together. Inward investors provide not just jobs but 30% of our research and development, but there is no room for complacency in an environment that is increasingly competitive. The trade and investment for growth White Paper therefore sets out a strategy for creating opportunities, providing the conditions for the private sector growth through trade and investment that will help to rebalance our economy, and securing the benefits of trade and investment openness for the world’s poorest people. The Government want to focus on small and medium- sized enterprises, which are much less engaged in trade than bigger companies. They have told us that they want to take advantage of the opportunities that exist especially in emerging markets but cannot always access the trade credit insurance or finance needed to take the risk. They have also told us that since the economic crisis, they feel that it has become much harder to get cover from private credit insurers at reasonable rates. The Government will therefore create several new schemes and extend one existing scheme, which will be launched in the coming months. First, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills will launch an export enterprise finance guarantee scheme offering export finance valued at up to £1 million for SMEs. The Export Credits Guarantee Department will launch several schemes, including: an export working capital scheme for those who are ineligible for the EEFG scheme, offering export finance of more than £1 million; a bond support scheme under which the Government will share risk with lending banks on the issue of contract bonds; and a foreign exchange credit support scheme, which will support banks offering foreign exchange hedging contracts to SMEs by sharing credit risk. The ECGD will also extend its short-term credit insurance scheme to cover a broader range of exporters, including SMEs. In addition, UK Trade & Investment will increase its focus on emerging markets and on helping SMEs, and launch a new online service offering access to sales leads around the world. All Ministers have been asked to support our trade diplomacy. I have led, or supported the Prime Minister in, high-level delegations to Brazil, India, China and Russia with business representatives, promoting exports and seeking inward investment. We will be doing more of the same this year and beyond. 329 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 330 White Paper White Paper However, half our exports are to the EU, and although I hope he can give us a timetable for their consequently we have a strong interest in ensuring that implementation. I hope the Secretary of State acknowledges the EU grows. That makes the completion of the European that all those measures build on work done by the single market even more vital. Recent analysis suggests previous Labour Government. that trade between the UK and other EU member states could be as much as 45% below potential, largely because Like the previous Government, this Government are of significant non-tariff barriers. Completion of the committed to the completion of the Doha round of single market could translate into 7% additional income global free trade talks. Given the difficulties that those per head per UK household. We therefore strongly talks have had in the past, can the Secretary of State tell support efforts to remove barriers to trade, particularly the House what specific new initiatives he will take in for SMEs, in fields such as e-commerce and low carbon the coming year to ensure that talks are completed products, and in professional and business services, for successfully? His predecessor and my right hon. Friend which there are currently an estimated 3,000 regulatory the former Prime Minister played an active and engaged requirements. We will also press for energy and agriculture role in trying to move the WTO towards agreement. liberalisation. What personal role has the Secretary of State played and what commitment has he gained from the Prime At the international level, completing the Doha round Minister about his personal involvement in securing an is one of our top objectives. Finishing those trade agreement this year? negotiations could deliver a £110 billion boost per year to the global economy. We have spent 10 years negotiating Does the Secretary of State accept that the Doha and now need urgent action to agree the key elements of round must foster development, and will he respect and the Doha deal this year, so I am glad that momentum build on the work of his Department and the Department towards a deal seems to be building again. Britain will for International Development under the previous do its utmost to get the World Trade Organisation past Government to ensure that trade agreements support the finishing line this year. Doha is the top priority, but poorer, developing countries? we will also pursue an ambitious programme of EU free The White Paper recognises the potential benefits of trade agreements with our main trading partners, including completing European free trade agreements. What specific India, Canada, Singapore and the South American new initiatives will the Secretary of State take within the Mercosur countries and, I hope, with Japan following Council of Ministers to get things moving forward? the recent agreement with South Korea. Finally on Europe, what specific measures will he take Finally, the UK is committed to assisting poor countries to broaden and deepen the single market, as the White to take advantage of the opportunities presented by an Paper puts it? open global trading system. International trade is one of the most important tools in the fight against poverty There appear to be some significant problems underlying and research evidence shows that per capita incomes the White Paper. Can the Secretary of State assure me grow three times faster in countries without trade barriers that the cap of £25 million does not create a gap in than in other developing countries. We will therefore export support for mid-range companies? Will he confirm ensure that trade is a central theme across our bilateral that the UKTI budget will be cut by 19.5% in real aid programme, and promote regional integration, notably terms? Given the expansion of activities in the White in Africa through our Africa free trade initiative. Helping Paper, where and how will cuts be made without damaging the developing world in that way is the right thing to do support for exporters? What role will the science and on moral grounds, and it is in Britain’s economic national innovation network play in supporting the export strategy? interest. Does the Secretary of State recognise that a successful This White Paper sets out an ambitious direction for export drive depends fundamentally on having goods the UK and will guide the Government’s work on trade and services to sell, and on having the companies that and investment. We will implement it vigorously and can provide and sell those goods and services? Does he actively, and I urge British business to seize the opportunities therefore also recognise that the Government’s reckless that it will present. In that way, we will all benefit from approach to deficit reduction is damaging the prospects the vision it sets out: an open trading system and a for growth and jobs? Can he tell the House why the competitive British economy, driving jobs and growth. strategy for growth has still not been published when he promised it in October? Does he acknowledge that the Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): I new director-general of the CBI has now joined the thank the Secretary of State for sending me a copy of previous director-general in criticising the Government the White Paper earlier today and for notice of his for having no plan for growth? Without a clear vision statement. I welcome the broad thrust of the statement for the economy and a plan for growth, we will not have so far as it goes, but may I remind him that exports enough companies to export or the products to sell. alone will not deliver without a credible plan for growth Will the Secretary of State confirm that pharmaceuticals across our economy? Putting new tyres on the car will and the life sciences are one of the knowledge-based not make it perform better if the engine has not been fixed. industries by which we can hope to earn our way in the We welcome the importance given to exports and world? Last week, Pfizer announced the closure of its export support, and support the increased focus on the Sandwich plant. Is it not a chilling message that one of major emerging markets such as Brazil, China and India, the world’s leading pharmaceutical companies looked without neglecting our longer-established markets. We at its global activities and decided that it no longer also welcome the commitment to opposing protectionism needed to be in the UK, and that it could afford to the and promoting free trade. Subject to the detail, we will leave the UK outside its global research strategy? How support the particular measures that the Secretary of much more investment will we lose before this complacent State proposes to develop export support for SMEs, Government produce a credible plan for growth? 331 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 332 White Paper White Paper [Mr John Denham] The right hon. Gentleman asked specifically what I have been doing in relation to international trade initiatives. The White Paper says that the Government will invest In each of the major BRIC—Brazil, Russia, India and in UK infrastructure. Will the Secretary of State confirm China—countries that I have visited, I have engaged that the introduction of universal broadband has been with the Trade Ministers, especially the key ones in delayed by three years, and that there is no credible plan India and China, which are critical to the success of the for fast broadband? Does he accept that those failings Doha round, and tried to persuade them of the importance make the UK a less attractive place for investment by of making good offers. We have had useful discussions companies that support the digital economy? about that. I have had several meetings with Mr Barnier Does the Secretary of State recognise that a recent about how we can progress the single market, and only report by Experian and the National Endowment for a week ago I was in extensive discussions with my Science, Technology and the Arts concluded that there opposite number from India about the European Union are companies with the potential to grow and export in free trade agreement. These are works in progress, but every region of the country and in many different progress is undoubtedly being made. sectors of the economy? Does he recognise that regional The right hon. Gentleman asked about some of the development agencies often worked with UKTI to support concrete measures on trade promotion and resources. exporters? He has abolished RDAs, but can he explain He appreciates that export credit guarantees are why the White Paper contains only one passing mention underwriting bank lending—they are not a cash of regional support for exporters and support for exporters contribution and there is no resource implication. He in the regions? How will he ensure that potential exporters asked about timetables, and these schemes will be introduced get the right support in every part of the country? in the next two to three months on a pilot basis. They The White Paper praises higher education as a gross are, in fact, imminent. export earner of £5.3 billion, so why has the Secretary The right hon. Gentleman rightly mentioned the fact of State supported changes to student visa policies that that there is some reduction in the UKTI budget, but he will do real harm to the country’s seventh biggest export should recall that, under the RDA system that he extols, earner and undermine our long-term trade and development there was a ludicrous duplication of resources. We had interests? The White Paper speaks of investing in science, British trade ambassadors from each of the RDAs but does the Secretary of State recognise that with posted in overseas countries, competing with each other science investment cut in real terms and other countries and wasting resources. We will get more from less when increasing their science investment, we are in danger of it comes to trade promotion. losing world leadership in this area? On the wider issue of the state of the economy, we I welcome the recent performance of manufacturing earlier had an extraordinary display of amnesia from exports, which have taken advantage of a competitive the shadow Chancellor, who forgot his role in the last pound. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Government. The shadow Secretary of State now tells strength of the manufacturing sector has been supported us about the decline in manufacturing. He may have by the previous Government’s support for science, research forgotten the debate last week when we had to point out and development tax credits and capital allowances, to him that the decline in the manufacturing sector in and that—in the worst of the global recession—the the UK economy from 20% to 12% of GDP was far in scrappage scheme, time to pay and flexible tax credits excess of any other developed country, and that is the all helped manufacturers to retain more of their work rebalancing problem that we are now trying to address. force? Does he recognise that we now have a unique Of course, trade by itself will not solve the problem—it opportunity to use manufacturing exports to strengthen is 30% of GDP—but it is important, especially for some the supply chain companies and develop the next generation areas such as the north-east of England. Rebalancing is of world-beating export products? What is he doing to about manufacturing, exports and private sector investment. ensure that we take advantage of that opportunity? There is much common sense and continuity in the Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): Now White Paper and no need for artificial arguments about that the Secretary of State has been in situ for some it, but the Secretary of State must recognise that its time, does he recognise—as we on the Business, Innovation impact will be limited without a credible plan for growth. and Skills Committee recognise—that UKTI is a bureaucrat’s vision, not a business man’s vision, evaluates itself on process and not on outcomes, and has a Vince Cable: First, may I respond to the right hon. variable performance dependent on the quality of personnel Gentleman’s positive comments? He is right that, compared in post? Does he also recognise that not one trade with, say, the United States or France, there is a significant ambassador comes from the entertainment or music degree of consensus about trade policy. Probably one of industry, which are among the major earners for Britain the best statements on the relationship between trade in the world at large? Will he have a root and branch review and globalisation was set out by Clare Short, a few of UKTI, using business input, to ensure those outcomes? years ago when she was Secretary of State. There is a lot of common ground. Vince Cable: The business people whom I meet—and The right hon. Gentleman asked about Pfizer. As it I meet a great many—frequently make a positive assessment happens, I chaired the task force this morning, which—with of the support that UKTI gives them. There are some the leader of Kent county council and the Minister for criticisms, but not many. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s Universities and Science—is seeking actively to try to final point, he will know that Lord Green is now the save as many jobs as we can on that site and to mobilise Trade Minister. He has a business background and is other pharmaceutical companies. Its work is coming applying precisely the disciplines that the hon. Gentleman along well, but these are early days. feels—and I agree with him—are necessary. 333 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 334 White Paper White Paper Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Nothing which sets out how the single market can be deepened. is more important than creating jobs, in the part of There are key areas where Britain can do well—such as north Staffordshire that I represent. Because so many low-carbon products and services in general, where jobs are at risk because of public sector cuts in that there are enormous obstacles to trade—and we will area, the statement that the Secretary of State has just focus on those. made is perhaps the most important statement that we will receive from this Government. Will the right hon. Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): May I Gentleman work with us to ensure that that trade thank my right hon. Friend, on behalf of small and diplomacy that he mentioned will embrace making the medium-sized enterprises in Stratford-on-Avon, for the case for investment at every level, including in the new White Paper? His focus on exports and tackling some of environmental technologies, and the support needed for the problems with the ECGD is absolutely right. I SMEs? The chamber of commerce in north Staffordshire would like to bring to his attention the fact that export tells me that the business initiative does not have the finance through banks is under threat from gold-plating funding that it needs. by the Financial Services Authority and parts of Basel III. Such finance is a safe way of financing exports for our Vince Cable: The hon. Lady is right to say that trade SMEs, and indeed all our businesses. The failure rate is is crucial in her part of the country, and I have had 0.002%, yet it is in danger of being put in the same discussions with her and her neighbours about the bracket as long-term finance, which would act as a ceramics industry, which is clearly one of our success disincentive for banks to fund export finance. stories, and we should promote it. I also met the chairman of her local enterprise partnership, who was a good Vince Cable: As far as the ECGD is concerned, one deal more sanguine about its prospects than she is. of the things that we discovered when we investigated this matter is that Britain is far behind countries such as Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I warmly welcome this France—which has COFACE and other such agencies—in statement, particularly the measures for SMEs. The providing trade finance. That is the gap—the market previous Government were very good at helping with failure—that we are trying to fill. I hear my hon. Friend’s weapons and the aerospace industry, but this is one point about banks in general—a point that the Chancellor sector that really needed some help. What can my right dealt with a few moments ago. There is clearly an issue hon. Friend do to publicise the scheme to ensure that all about the extent to which the FSA has overreacted in its SMEs that are thinking of exporting can benefit fully interpretation of international rules. from the measures that we are taking today? Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): Vince Cable: I would not completely deprecate efforts I am sure that the whole House will welcome measures to promote the aerospace industry—I am doing the to help small and medium-sized businesses to export same—but my hon. Friend is right to say that the key more, but how are small businesses helped to export by message of the statement is about SMEs. Compared the abolition of the grants for business investment with countries such as Germany, the number of our scheme? The figures from the Secretary of State’s own small businesses that export is relatively small, and we Department show that this money produced £10 of have to publicise that help through bodies such as the private sector investment for every £1 of public money Federation of Small Businesses and the chambers of spent. The money was directed overwhelmingly at small commerce, as well as through our website. We will be and medium-sized businesses, and overwhelmingly at active in doing that. manufacturing companies, and it was available only in the assisted areas that the Government say they want to Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): help. Does not the abolition of the scheme show that As Chair of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, there is now a widening gulf between the rhetoric about I wish to make it clear that previous reports from the rebalancing the economy and the reality of the policies Committee are slightly less critical of UKTI than may that the Government are pursuing? have been suggested by a Member earlier. I broadly welcome the thrust of the White Paper, especially in Vince Cable: We want to help small businesses, but connection with export credit finance, which is obviously we intend to do so in a more cost-effective way, and in a of crucial importance. It is good that that is being seen more effective way overall. The support for trade finance to be addressed. The White Paper and the Secretary of that I have described is specifically directed at small State both refer to the potential for further trade with enterprises. As for the other schemes, such as mentoring, the EU, and the removal of non-tariff barriers will have which the right hon. Gentleman will know about through the potential to boost this country’s export income. Can my colleague the Minister of State, Lord Green, we are the Secretary of State be more specific about what putting in place a whole series of measures that are policies he will pursue in that area and give us assurances focused specifically on the SME community. that those will have the support of the European Scrutiny Committee? Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I congratulate the Secretary of State on extending the remit of the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Can we Export Credits Guarantee Department into small business have very short questions? There are many Members support, but will he review the department’s performance who wish to contribute, and I want to try to fit everyone in. and structure further? I refer in particular to the fact that 90% of the support that it provides goes to the Vince Cable: As far as the single market is concerned, aerospace industry. That shows a real imbalance, and I meet Mr Barnier regularly, and there is now a real there are other problems with the functioning of that momentum behind trying to implement the Monti report, department too. 335 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 336 White Paper White Paper Vince Cable: I accept the general argument. We accept talking to the Under-Secretary of State for Business, that the ECGD is an agency of Government that needs Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for reform. It has been heavily constrained in recent years Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), who is sitting by judicial reviews of some of its export activities. Of beside me now, about how we can take those positive course we have to respect the courts, but the ECGD elements forward. clearly needs to do more and perform a wider range of functions. What we are announcing today for small-scale Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): I commend the enterprises is a key step forward. Secretary of State for today’s statement on the White Paper. Last week I visited a company called Davin Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) Optronics in Watford, which employs about 50 people. (PC): The latest figures from Her Majesty’s Revenue The company is really keen to expand into exports, yet and Customs indicate that Welsh exports fell by 6.3% in it does not have the resources to fund a major campaign the previous four quarters. Considering that UKTI has abroad. Can he assure me, first, that the measures in the no presence in Wales, what is the Secretary of State White Paper for small businesses will assist them through doing to ensure that my country, traditionally an exporting UKTI, and secondly, that he, one of his colleagues or nation, is at the heart of this strategy? an official from UKTI will visit the company, help it, and get the publicity that this drive deserves? Vince Cable: I did not totally follow the hon. Gentleman’s point about the statistics. Just to go over what the most Vince Cable: I hear many stories of that kind; indeed, recent statistics from a couple of days ago tell us, I have small businesses in my constituency that are in exports actually grew by 6% in the last quarter of last exactly the same position. If I can meet the company I year, compared with the previous quarter. We should shall be happy to do so, and certainly one of my not read too much into that, because we are in abnormal colleagues will. With the additional support that we conditions, but exports, along with business investment have given, along with our additional competitiveness and manufacturing, are now growing. Wales, as a through the exchange rate, for example, my hon. Friend manufacturing and export centre, as he says, should be will find that large numbers of SMEs will move forward benefitting from that, and I hope that it will. over the next year, and he has identified one such company. Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): The Secretary of State’s statement was strong on specific measures for Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP): Is encouraging trade and exports. However, it was less the Secretary of State aware that SMEs and exports are detailed when it came to inward investment, which is the lifeblood of the Northern Ireland economy? Can he equally important when it comes to creating jobs and tell us whether he has had any discussions with the growth in the UK. What specific measures is he proposing devolved Governments and the regions? Will there be to boost inward investment into the UK? easy access for companies? We have had a particular difficulty in the past with exports from the food and Vince Cable: It is right to say that inward investment meat industries. There is also a need to deal with is enormously important. We start from a position of cross-border trade with the Irish Republic, which could strength, as a major host country for inward investment. be boosted considerably. Will he pay special attention to One of the specific actions that we are taking is giving those issues? the Trade Minister, Lord Green, personal responsibility for developing close relations with our major inward Vince Cable: My colleague the Trade Minister, Lord investors, in order to build up the flow of capital into Green, was in Northern Ireland only a few days ago, this country. meeting Bombardier and other key investors. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to stress the importance of Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) trade with the Irish Republic; somebody pointed out to (Lab): One way to make our businesses, both large and me recently that our trade with Ireland is worth more small, more internationally competitive is to ensure that than our trade with the BRIC countries—Brazil, Russia, we have the skilled work force that we need for growth. India and China—put together. Clearly we must not Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that a vital tool in forget that. that is using public procurement, at both local authority and Government level, to increase the number of Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): There are many apprenticeships available? That tool was widely used by SMEs, particularly manufacturers, in my constituency the Labour Government, and is successfully used by that are capable of taking on the export opportunities our European counterparts. Given that my Bill—the that my right hon. Friend mentions. Often they do not Apprenticeships and Skills (Public Procurement Contracts) readily receive the relevant information on how to take Bill, which is due to receive its Second Reading this up those opportunities. How will the information about Friday—is supported by the Federation of Small Businesses those opportunities be disseminated to grass-roots SMEs and the British Chambers of Commerce, will the Secretary in constituencies such as mine? of State now lend his support to it? Vince Cable: My colleague the Minister of State, Vince Cable: As it happens, I launched apprenticeship Lord Green, is developing a support package for SMEs week on Monday, and visited several parts of the country that involves a much more accessible website that I hope to promote apprenticeships and raise their status. Indeed, will give the information that such companies require. I Government support has increased, as the hon. Lady totally accept the basic point that, because of a lack of knows, with 75,000 new apprenticeships this year. There information, there is often a gap between what is available are good elements in her Bill, and I know that she is and what is accessed. 337 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 338 White Paper White Paper Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Does the Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Food Secretary of State share my concern—and, I am sure, and farming is now the UK’s largest manufacturing that of the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam sector, and enterprising companies such as Heygates (Mr Clegg)—at the letter that I received this week from flour in Downham Market are exporting their products the vice-chancellors of Sheffield university and Sheffield to the middle east. I am concerned about the level of Hallam university that said that the cut in permits for regulation, and about whether BIS sees food and farming foreign students will cost Sheffield £25 million in the as a mainstream industry. The industry is often caught next year? The Secretary of State has been involved in up in regulations both from Europe and from the international education; he is an internationalist; he is Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. intellectual. We are putting up the shutters to foreign I have worked in international business, selling overseas, students in Britain, which is slowing us down and will and I received a lot of support at that time from cost South Yorkshire a lot of money. Can he talk to the embassies and high commissions, under the auspices of monoculturalists in the Tory party and get some more the Foreign Office. What is BIS doing to link up with sense on this issue? those people who can provide valuable assistance on the ground to people wanting to sell into those markets? Vince Cable: I am certainly talking to my colleagues in the Home Office and making exactly the case that the Vince Cable: My colleague is right to emphasise the right hon. Gentleman has just made. [HON.MEMBERS: importance of that industry. Food and drink represents “Oh!”] This is a major export industry—worth over more than 10% of the manufacturing sector. On the £5 billion, quite apart from the other benefits that we various trade missions that I have been on, companies derive from having overseas students—and in the universities in the sector are often at the top of the list in pushing there is almost no problem. As he knows, there is an for better access. In the European Union there are many issue with some English language schools, but those obstacles to trade, both within the Union and across schools are also a feeder for students going to university borders. It has a very illiberal and unsatisfactory system here. It is important that we remain as open as possible, for dealing with agriculture, and we want to open it up. while dealing with the undoubted abuses that occur in some cases. Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Will the Secretary of State confirm press reports earlier this Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): In this week that his flagship policy of a national insurance transition year between regional development agencies holiday for new start-up businesses outside the south-east and local enterprise partnerships, will the Secretary of is failing? According to the figures only 1,500 businesses State ensure that the regions, especially Yorkshire, fully have come forward, yet the Government expect 400,000 benefit from this excellent White Paper? to do so over the next three years. Does he not consider that a flop? Vince Cable: Yes; my hon. Friend has raised the wider point about ensuring that the LEPs are as effective as Vince Cable: I do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s possible. As he will know, the Minister of State, Department numbers. I get a great deal of feedback, particularly for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the from small companies outside London, telling me that Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk) has they are benefiting from taking advantage of the national announced that most of Britain, including all our major insurance contribution relief. The Chancellor will announce conurbations, is now covered. I now expect them to get the progress of the scheme in the Budget, and tell the to work, and to address the kind of problems that my House how he is going to develop it. hon. Friend has brought to our attention. Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): May I add my Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ welcome for the focus on SMEs? The Secretary of State Co-op): Before the statement, I attended an event here is making absolutely the right judgment on this, because in the Commons organised by Heriot-Watt university they will be the engine of growth and jobs in the to highlight the university’s very successful international economy.Last Friday I visited Moog, a first-class company strategy. The principal pointed out in his speech, however, in my constituency that is involved in advanced that the biggest obstacle was the proposed changes in manufacturing and a strong exporter of components. student visas and work permits, which will affect Edinburgh As the Secretary of State knows, that is a very important university as well. Those universities, and others, hope sector. What more can he do to support advanced that the Secretary of State will be successful in the manufacturing and companies like that? battle that he is apparently having with the Home Office. This is not just a question of the effect that the Vince Cable: My diary would be seriously oversubscribed changes will have on universities here and now; it is also if I offered to visit all the companies that have been about the image that this country will have if it sends mentioned this afternoon, but I am happy to talk to my out an unwelcoming message, as well as the possibility hon. Friend about the specifics. Indeed, a key element of undermining of our export potential. I hope that the of the growth strategy that the Government are working Secretary of State will take all these points to the Home through relates specifically to the development of advanced Secretary when he has his discussions with her in Cabinet. manufacturing, and key support for that will be provided by the technology centres, for which we have obtained Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman makes the same additional funding, and which will be rolled out over point as his colleague the right hon. Member for Rotherham this year. (Mr MacShane), and I do not think that I need to reply again at length. I totally accept the importance of Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): On a having a liberal system for the admission of students— day when the Office for National Statistics has revealed subject to the need to deal with abuses. that the UK’s trade deficit widened in December to its 339 Trade and Investment for Growth 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Trade and Investment for Growth 340 White Paper White Paper [Mr William Bain] the green investment bank. As I explained then, the business plan will be available in May. We assume that highest level since August 2005, and the chief economist staff will be hired by the end of this year, and that loans of the British Chambers of Commerce has said that will be made next year. I set out the programme and the “Britain’s trading position is not improving”, road map when I was interrogated by the hon. Lady’s will the Secretary of State concede that it was a big colleagues. mistake to slash investment in capital allowances, which help manufacturing exporters? Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I certainly welcome this statement, but I would like to probe the Secretary Vince Cable: I do not think that the hon. Gentleman of State on the question of the European single market has studied the figures carefully. If he does, he will see in connection with the ability of small businesses to that the trade deficit narrowed slightly in the last quarter form alliances and joint ventures with other small businesses of last year, as against that quarter in previous years. in Europe. In addition, I would simply observe that The figures are not good, and they have not been good SMEs in my constituency have a more than passing for many years. We have had very poor trade performance; interest in capital allowances. that is what I said at the start of my statement. We have a massive legacy of underperformance in exports, and Vince Cable: I continue to hear strong representations particularly in manufactures, that we have to overcome, about the value of capital allowances from, among and the White Paper represents a clear step in the others, the Engineering Employers Federation. That is direction of remedying that problem. clearly one of the things that the Chancellor will be mulling over before the Budget. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. Does he agree that it is important for UKTI to develop co-ordinated Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): In relationships with the new local enterprise partnerships, Stoke-on-Trent we welcome the emphasis on small especially in the black country, in order to ensure that and medium-sized enterprises and manufacturing local businesses have proper access to export markets? exporters, but as my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) said, there Vince Cable: Yes, indeed, and that is the case. UKTI seems to be a dissonance between the rhetoric and the will continue to delegate people to work in the regional reality. Business Link has announced that it is no longer areas. In the past there has been an enormous amount funding two enterprise agencies in north Staffordshire, of duplication and waste, and those people will continue Business Initiative and Stafford Enterprise. The local to work in exactly the way that my hon. Friend describes, chamber of commerce is very worried about the effect but more effectively than in the past. that that will have on local start-ups and their ability to export. There does not seem to be very much joined-up Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): thinking here. We have just heard that the Secretary of State supports efforts to remove barriers to trade, particularly for Vince Cable: As many people on this side of the commodities such as low-carbon products. Will he therefore House who have run small businesses will know, the update us on when his Department plans to release problem with Business Link was that it was a very details of the green investment bank, and how much ineffective system of business support. It has now been money will be made available for it? replaced, and in future small businesses will have access, through mentoring, to other business people, rather Vince Cable: I gave evidence to the Environmental than to those who serviced Business Link, which was Audit Committee about 10 days ago on the timing of not a successful scheme. 341 9 FEBRUARY 2011 342

Point of Order Former Metal Mines Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order 2.38 pm No. 23) Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I seek your guidance 2.39 pm on what recourse is available when a ministerial answer Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East to a written question is not only incorrect but directly Cleveland) (Lab): I beg to move, contradicts the Government’s own impact assessment That leave be given to bring in a Bill to give the Coal Authority of the Health and Social Care Bill? When asked about responsibility for preventing adverse environmental impacts from the cost distortions involved in the private sector providing former metal mines; and for connected purposes. health care services, compared with an NHS provider, At present, 9% of rivers in England and Wales are the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. impacted by contaminated water discharging from orphan Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow) said in metal mines. These impacts represent one of the greatest his written answer: obstacles in achieving water framework directive objectives, “it has not been possible to determine, on balance, whether NHS along with the problem of gaining back the loss of bodies or private providers of NHS services are systematically amenity and areas of ecological value. Metal mines are advantaged or disadvantaged relative to the other.”—[Official excluded from the Coal Authority’s duty to remediate Report, 4 February 2011; Vol. 522, c. 1007W.] similar water pollution emanating from coal mines— And yet, Mr Deputy Speaker— a position established under the memorandum of understanding with the Environment Agency in 1999. I Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. That propose that orphan metal mines should come under is not a point of order, or a matter for me. I would the same supervised expertise of the Coal Authority. advise the hon. Gentleman that the Table Office is the At present there is no legal responsibility for any place to take this matter up, and I am sure that it will be party to maintain a disused orphan metal mine. This very helpful in trying to put it right. If he takes the state of affairs is largely down to historical timing, matter to the Table Office, I am sure that it can be because mining of iron ore largely stopped in the ’60s, sorted out quickly. as it did in other metal mines—yet coal mining persisted, in the main, into the early ’90s. Work in Wales, the south-west and Northumbria has identified more than 3,700 sites, although not all are causing serious pollution. No metal mines are still in use; the largest tin mine in Cornwall closed in 1998. Deep mines are still working, especially in my constituency at Boulby, where the tradition of mining is kept alive at the Cleveland Potash mine. I came into contact with the issue of abandoned metal mines through the Saltburn Gill action group. Saltburn Gill is a narrow wooded stream valley leading directly off Saltburn’s famous surfing beach to the historic pier, hydraulic cliff lift and other tourist attractions of that popular Victorian resort town. Much of the Gill is a nature reserve and is designated as a site of special scientific interest as a relic of post-glacial native woodland. It is a popular walking area, and local wildlife attractions include kingfishers and visiting otters. It is also situated near the 82 shafts that access the historic networks of iron ore. Mining in Teesside began in the 1850s, following the discovery by John Vaughan and John Marley of the main seam outcrop in Cleveland, thereby beginning a 150-year history of iron and steel making on Teesside. The iron ore from those hills, forged on the river Tees, was integral to the Victorian obsession with cast iron, the construction of the Tyne bridge and the building of Sydney harbour bridge. Unfortunately, both Saltburn Gill and Skelton Beck began to see significant impacts from ochreous mine water appearing overnight on 18 May 1999. That quickly turned this otherwise high-quality watercourse bright orange, devastating the downstream ecology. Saltburn Gill and Skelton Beck are perfect examples of how a local river or stream can be severely impacted by mine water discharging from disused orphaned ironstone mines. As a result, Saltburn Gill and Skelton Beck are classified as moderate and poor respectively under the water framework directive. Over 330 kg of iron ochre is deposited on the stream bed every day, contributing to 343 Former Metal Mines9 FEBRUARY 2011 Former Metal Mines 344

[Tom Blenkinsop] There are also heritage issues to be considered in the maintenance of abandoned metal mines. A great many 100 tonnes of iron hydroxide ochre delivered straight mines are protected as scheduled ancient monuments, into the North sea each year. The pollution reduces and some, such as the tin and copper mining areas of oxygen in the stream, stops sunlight and smothers the Cornwall and west Devon, have UNESCO world heritage bed, with a devastating effect on the ecology. A biological site status. Although protection of the heritage of certain impact survey of the stream showed that the pollution sites means some treatment methods are not suitable, it had reduced the quality of the beck from grade B, can be a driver for remediation. A good example is at which is good, to grade F, which is bad, in the 1.5 km Parys mountain, Anglesey, where remediation activities stretch from the discharge to the sea. are led as much by the local industrial heritage trust as Nationally, abandoned mines are the second biggest by the Environment Agency. Another good example is diffuse water pollutant, after agriculture. In 1992, one at the National Coal Mining Museum for England at of the UK’s biggest pollution incidents took place when Caphouse colliery near Wakefield. Rising mine water 45 million litres of heavily contaminated water burst posed a threat to the underground workings that were from the recently closed tin mine at Wheal Jane in open to visitors, as well as to the river Dearne. Through Cornwall. The mine water, loaded with cadmium, arsenic, work with the Coal Authority, the mine water was zinc and iron, flooded into the Carnon river, causing a controlled by pumping and treated at the surface. The vast plume of polluting orange water in Falmouth bay. treatment plant is now part of the visitor attraction, In the end, it was decided that a chemical treatment with hides for birdwatching built into wetlands. plant was needed to deal with the scale of the problem, Of course, the impact of climate change could make allow treated water to flow to the river and block the problem of abandoned mine pollution worse. Increased pollution. and heavier rainfall intensity will increase the erosion of That was all achieved by direct Government action at contaminated spoil heap material, and sediments and the time after a major incident—not via legislation deposition on agricultural land in downstream floodplains. giving powers to an agency to take preventive measures Legally, the Water Resources Act 1991 is the most to avoid such incidents occurring in the first place. For important piece of pollution legislation in England and Saltburn Gill action group, assistance was given by the Wales. It outlines the principal offence that a person Environment Agency, Teesside university, the local wildlife contravenes the Act if he or she trust, Saltburn, Marske and New Marske parish council “causes or knowingly permits any poisonous, noxious or polluting and others, to try to find a solution to the problem. matter or any solid waste matter to enter any controlled waters.” In 2009, in partnership with the Coal Authority and Until 31 December 1999, section 89(3) of the same Act with funding from the Department for Environment, contained a defence: Food and Rural Affairs, the Environment Agency “A person shall not be guilty under Section 85 by reason only undertook a number of investigations to establish the of his permitting water from an abandoned mine to enter into feasibility of building a treatment plant for the mine controlled waters.” water at Saltburn. Three boreholes were drilled into the Consequently, there has only ever been one successful workings and a pumping test was run for three months prosecution. Even for the Wheal Jane tin mine, and in to help the Environment Agency and Coal Authority to other high-profile cases, prosecutions were not brought, design a treatment plant. following legal advice that “causing” could not be proven One of the first things discovered was that the mine because of the long and complicated history. That water level was 10 metres higher than the discharge defence was removed in 1999, but the removal could not point. This has raised concerns that there is a risk of a be applied retrospectively. This presents difficulties, as significant outbreak. The pumping test also demonstrated the European mining waste directive will mean a new to the Environment Agency and the Coal Authority regulatory regime to control waste facilities at working that the recharge area for the mine was much larger mines and quarries. Crucially, it has implications for than expected. Laboratory and field-scale tests have abandoned mines. By 2012, member states have to shown that up to 99% of the iron could be removed in a “ensure that an inventory of closed waste facilities, including treatment plant. Furthermore, there are also industrial abandoned waste facilities...which cause serious negative environmental economic benefits to be gained from existing coal mine impacts or have the potential of becoming in the medium or short water treatment plants, which could be expanded if term a serious threat to human health or the environment is metal mines were adopted by the Coal Authority. drawn up and periodically updated.” About 50,000 tonnes of ochre are collected every For all these reasons—litigious, historical, ecological year from existing coal mine water treatment plants. and economic—I move that the Coal Authority be The vast majority of this ochre is transported for landfill, given the legal go-ahead to take over such abandoned despite the fact that it could be used for phosphate metal mines, so that rivers and streams like Saltburn removal in sewage treatment works, could provide a Gill, Saltburn Beck and Skelton Beck are returned to pigment in the dye and paint industry, and could be their former glory. used as a bulking agent and dye in the cement industry, Question put and agreed to. or as feedstock for the iron and steel industry. The UK Ordered, currently imports 250,000 tonnes of ochre from Australia, That Tom Blenkinsop, Ian Swales, Mr Iain Wright, while sending to landfill the vast bulk of the 50,000 Alex Cunningham, Ian Lavery and Mrs Jenny Chapman tonnes that it collects via the Coal Authority. Indeed, present the Bill. some mine waters contain significant quantities of valuable metals, and the potential for extracting them, and other Tom Blenkinsop accordingly presented the Bill. chemicals, both from the mine water and from the ochre Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on is a subject that requires further research. Friday 4 November 2011, and to be printed (Bill 145). 345 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 346

Police It has been said that the profile of the cuts is front-loaded so that forces must find the biggest savings at an early 2.48 pm stage. The profile reflects the need to make early progress on reducing the deficit, and it is set, but we must view The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick the grant reductions in context. The biggest cut does Herbert): I beg to move, not fall in the first year. The average cash reduction in That the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2011-12 grant is 4% in the first year, 5% in the second, 2% in the (House of Commons Paper No. 771), which was laid before this third, and 1% in the fourth. House on 31 January, be approved. It is also important to remember that a 20% reduction As well as seeking the House’s approval for the grant, in Government funding in real terms does not mean a I want to explain why this settlement for the police is 20% reduction in force spending power. Forces do not necessary, challenging but manageable, and how the receive all their funding from central Government; on Government are helping the service to meet the challenge. average they receive about a quarter of it from the On 13 December, I laid before the House the council tax component of precept, which is determined Government’s proposed allocations of grants to police locally. If police authorities and, thereafter, elected authorities in England and Wales. Following that, the police and crime commissioners choose to increase Government held a six-week consultation on the proposed precept at the level forecast by the Office for Budget allocation of funding, during which 34 representations Responsibility, the settlement represents a 14% real-terms were received from across 20 force areas. I would like to reduction in overall funding over four years. Of course I thank hon. Members, members of police forces, police recognise that the local contribution to police spending authorities and other policing organisations across the varies considerably between forces, and I shall deal with country for taking the time to share their views on the that aspect shortly. provisional settlement. Their comments have been considered carefully and fully. Having inherited the largest peacetime deficit in Britain’s Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): Why does the history, the Government had no option but to reduce Minister think that a force such as that in Cheshire public spending, and a police service that spends more should lose 200 front-line police officers while the than £13 billion a year cannot be exempt from a requirement Government are spending money on an unnecessary to save public money. The October spending review set switch to political police commissioners? My constituents the overall cut in funding at 20% in real terms over four would much prefer that money to be spent on putting years, and it set the profile of the reduction. I accept officers on the beat. that the settlement is challenging, but the Government believe that it is manageable, and that if savings are Nick Herbert: I have explained this to the House made in the right areas the service to the public can be before, but I am happy to do so again for the benefit of maintained and, indeed, improved. the hon. Lady. If she looks at the allocations that we have made, she will see that the additional cost of Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): holding an election for police and crime commissioners The Minister says that the settlement is challenging. will not come from force budgets, but has been provided Does he accept that it is more challenging for some separately by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. forces than for others, and that a force in Merseyside depends far more on central Government grant than a The argument that, because a cost is involved in the force in Surrey, which raises half its funds locally? Will holding of an election, that election should not take he consider, for the purpose of future years, looking place is a very foolish one, and a particularly odd one again at an issue that is causing great concern in my for an elected Member of Parliament to advance. When constituency? the Labour party proposed five different referendums in its manifesto, I did not notice its advancing the argument Nick Herbert: I absolutely understand the hon. that a cost would be involved. I should also point out Gentleman’s observation that different forces raise different that it is now Labour’s policy for police authority chairs amounts from local taxpayers, and I shall deal with it to be directly elected, and that the cost of holding those shortly. I remain open-minded about the issue, given elections would arise every four years. Perhaps the hon. that the report relates to allocations for the next two Lady should remonstrate with those on her party’s years. Front Bench if she considers that that is not money well spent. There is now agreement on both sides that there Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Is my right hon. should be direct elections, and a cost is involved in that Friend aware that over the past few years Essex police policy. If the Opposition did not believe that a cost was have made efficiency savings of 25%? Helicopter, payroll involved, they should not have advanced the policy and and legal services are now being shared, but Harlow voted for it, as they did in Committee just a few weeks police station remains open 24 hours a day, and our ago. front-line services have been protected. Let me return to the real effect of the funding reductions on forces. Humberside’s force raises the average 25% of Nick Herbert: I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments. its revenue through precept. If we assume that it chooses There are examples throughout the country—and I to adopt the freeze in council tax next year, its total intend to provide some—of police forces that are making funding will then fall by £5.5 million, or 2.9% of its significant efficiency savings, and working in a smarter total income of some £190 million. That is challenging, way that improves the service to the public even when but it is not unmanageable. As Opposition Members funds have been reduced. It is clearly possible to achieve have pointed out, the reductions in years three and four that. will be smaller. 347 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 348

[Nick Herbert] Nick Herbert: I said to the hon. Gentleman earlier that we must remain open-minded about the impact in Some forces, and some Members, have argued that future years, and we will. I think that this is the fairest the amount that each force raises in precept should be approach, and it is the approach that I am taking in taken into account in the determination of funding relation to the cut in central Government funding. reductions. I understand their argument, because forces Most of the funding that a force receives through the that raise very little from precept will face a larger cut grant will result from the application of a formula that than those that raise a great deal. After careful consideration, recognises local need. I know that this raises issues, but however, I decided that there would be a number of ultimately I decided that the right approach to the cut in objections to such an adjustment. First, it would be said central Government funding was to treat each force that we were penalising council tax payers in other areas fairly. That is why I decided to apply damping at the who already pay far more for their policing services, level of the average cut. and who have experienced a big increase in council tax in previous years. That would certainly be unfair. Secondly, Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): May I by subsidising forces in that way—including large forces remind the Minister that Northamptonshire police’s with greater capacity—we would be asking others to grant funding will decrease by 5.1% next year, when it take a larger cut in central grant than 20%, and that too should have decreased by only 0.9%? That is due to the would have been regarded as unfair. The fair solution, damping formula, under which Northamptonshire police and the one that was expected by forces and authorities, will lose £3.4 million in 2011-12 and a further £3.7 million was to treat all forces the same by making equal cuts in in 2012-13. They are subsidising forces throughout the grant. country. Will the Minister promise to look at this matter for next year’s grant? Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): The Minister appears to have borrowed that very doubtful concept of Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): May we spending power from his right hon. Friend the Secretary have shorter inventions too, please? Will the hon. Gentleman of State for Communities and Local Government, and I give me that promise for the future? am afraid that it is no more reputable in his hands than it was in those of his right hon. Friend. The truth is that Nick Herbert: I have met my hon. Friend and his there will be a 20% cut in grant, and the truth is that local chief constable. He knows that I consider this Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary has said matter very carefully, and he made his points very well that a cut of more than 12% will affect police availability. on behalf of his constituents. I will discuss damping in Why does the Minister disagree with HMIC—which a moment, but my hon. Friend’s comments reflect the has said that a cut of 12% is possible, but that anything fact that there will always be differences of view in this beyond that will cut into the front line—and with the House between Members whose police forces benefit chief constable of Greater Manchester, who has said from damping and who therefore do not wish to see any that there will be an effect on front-line policing? change in its application, and Members whose forces have, effectively, paid out under damping and who desperately wish there to be a change. It is therefore not Nick Herbert: There are two answers to that. First, possible for the Government to satisfy everybody. We forces on average receive a quarter of their funding have had to take decisions in the round, and in accordance from local taxpayers, so it does not make sense to with what we consider to be the best and fairest way to consider only the amount that they receive from central address the totality of policing in this country. Government. What matters to a force is its total spending power, and it is hardly disreputable to take that into As I have said, I decided to apply damping at the level account. Secondly, although I do not disagree with the of the average cut. As a result, each force will face an conclusions of the important report of the inspectorate equal percentage reduction in core Government funding of constabulary—with which I will deal shortly—I think in 2011-12 and 2012-13, thereby ensuring that no one it possible, as I will explain, to make savings that were force will face an unacceptably large reduction in its beyond the remit of its report. budget. This mirrors the approach we took in the in-year savings following the emergency Budget and, importantly, I am pleased that Opposition Members apparently it is what police forces were expecting and planning upon. agree with the policy of the inspectorate of constabulary that forces can save more than £1 billion a year without I appreciate that different forces have different views affecting the front line and while protecting visibility, on this decision, as do hon. Members, and I understand because that is very important. why forces such as the West Midlands and Dorset—and, indeed, Northamptonshire—are keen to see damping phased out or removed entirely, while others such as Stephen Twigg: I understand the Minister’s explanation, Cumbria and Cheshire welcome its retention. As I have which, in a sense, constitutes a fuller response to my said, in making decisions such as these I must, of earlier point, but may I urge him to reconsider in future course, think about policing as a whole. I also appreciate years? The main reason for the contrast between the the wider case against damping, and there is a strong sources of funding for forces in, say, Merseyside and argument for moving at the right time to a full application Surrey is the fact that Merseyside has a higher level of of the formula, recognising the policing needs of each social and economic deprivation. In recent years, council area, but doing so now would have created real difficulty. tax payers in my constituency have paid more for the I should also point out that the vast majority of funding police and have not experienced a freeze, but in practice that forces receive is allocated according to the formula. they will experience a much bigger cut than those in Therefore, force level allocations will remain as I announced Surrey. in December. 349 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 350

Historically, there have been a number of ring-fenced Nick Herbert: Well, I think it is important that up grants to police forces. The Government’s general approach until the Olympics the pledged sum remains in place in has been to remove ring-fencing and to roll funding into order to ensure security. Such decisions can be taken the main grant so that forces have greater local flexibility afterwards. in determining how resources are spent. That has been The Metropolitan police will continue to receive a the case for the rural policing fund. From 2006-07, it national, international and capital city grant, recognising had already been amalgamated with four other specific the unique duties they perform. It will be worth £200 million grants to create what is known as rule 2 grant, but we next year, although it will be reduced in subsequent are now rolling that into the police main grant. I want years on the same basis as the police main grant. to emphasise, especially to Members representing rural The Government’s absolute priority is to ensure that constituencies, that as result of my decision on damping the England and Wales police service retains and enhances levels the decision on rolling this grant into the main its ability to protect and serve the public. Understandably, grant means that no force will be worse off. there has been much focus on the impact of the settlement In some instances, I believe the case for ring-fencing on police numbers. Given the need to reduce public grants remains strong. Outside London, the neighbourhood spending, we cannot guarantee the number of police policing fund will be ring-fenced for the next two years and staff, which had reached record levels—almost to ensure the continuing funding of police community 250,000 people—and neither, of course, could the previous support officers, who play a valuable role in community Government. policing. When police and crime commissioners are introduced, it will be up to them to make decisions over Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): The Minister funding. In London, where the Mayor can already says that the number of police officers will be reduced. exercise this local determination, the ring fence is being Recently, he is supposed to have said that there is no lifted now, but the fund is being maintained at £340 million link between the commission of crime and the number next year and £338 million the following year. When of police. Does he still stand by that statement? some Members make their allegations about cuts in front-line policing, they might like to note that that Nick Herbert: I did not say that; I said there was no ring-fenced fund has been maintained. simple link, and there is not. The counter-terrorism specific grant has been relatively All parties agree with Her Majesty’s inspectorate of protected with a 10% cut in real terms over four years. constabulary that police forces can make savings of This is a cut of just 1% in cash terms, and must be seen over £1 billion a year while maintaining police availability. against a very rapid increase in resource and capital However, that will mean smaller police work forces in spending—some 49% in the last four years. The order to support the £1 billion a year of savings HMIC Government and the police service are confident that says can be made, which I do not think the Opposition there will be no reduction in police effectiveness in this have understood. That is why I regard it as so unacceptable crucial area, where savings can be made but where well that the Opposition should campaign on the issue of over £500 million will continue to be spent each year. police numbers when they are committed to cutting spending by over £1 billion a year, which will lead to a Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Minister has reduction in police numbers. rightly put the emphasis on the local areas, because it is their budget in the end. Does he not agree, however, that The challenge for the service is to improve efficiency, there is a responsibility on the Home Office to show drive out waste and increase productivity so that front-line leadership in respect of local forces? That is especially policing is prioritised and the service to the public is the case for procurement; the Home Office should maintained or improved. encourage local forces to collaborate and pool resources in order to procure. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I agree that the police can save money, and they might start to do so by addressing some of the equality and diversity politically Nick Herbert: I strongly agree with the right hon. correct drivel on which they waste millions of pounds Gentleman, who chairs the Select Committee on Home each year. If the Government were simply cutting the Affairs, and I will address that issue later, as I intend to police budget and savings could be found, that would be set out the savings that I believe can be made. The fine. However, the problem with the Government’s argument Home Office has a role to play in driving that, and in is that they are doing this against the backdrop of asking for the leadership of forces to share services and restricting the police’s ability to use the DNA database collaborate so that we can realise the considerable savings to catch criminals and trying to restrict further the use that are possible in procurement. of CCTV cameras which also help the police catch I was talking about funding to ensure national security. criminals, and they are releasing people from prison Similarly, funding for Olympic security has been prioritised. and having fewer criminals in prison. They cannot do Up to £600 million will remain available if required for all those things with fewer police. the safety and security programme, as originally pledged, although we expect that that should be delivered for Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): AsIhave rather less, at £475 million. already said, we must have much shorter interventions.

Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): If it Nick Herbert: I always know it is a mistake to take transpires that the Minister can pay for Olympic security interventions from my hon. Friend, but no doubt it is a at the lower figure as he hopes, what will he do with the mistake I will continue to make. I enjoy his interventions, extra money? Will it be reinvested to make up for some but I note that, although it seemed to me that Opposition of the police cuts? Front-Bench Members were giving lots of nods to what 351 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 352

[Nick Herbert] the more efficient forces, that could add another £350 million to the savings calculated in HMIC’s report. he said, they have still not understood the importance Pay, too, was outside the scope of the report. It of ensuring a proper balance between security and accounts for the bulk of total police spending—some liberty in this country. In spite of everything the new £11 billion last year. Any organisation in which the leader of their party has said, they have still not understood majority of the cost is pay, and which is facing tough that. times, has to look at its pay bill. The Government have There are also areas beyond the HMIC’s report—this announced a policy for a two-year pay freeze across the comes directly to the point made by the right hon. public sector. Subject to any recommendations from the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears)—where police negotiating board and agreement on staff pay, savings can be made by forces working together. There this might save some £350 million. We have asked Tom are 2,000 different IT systems across the 43 police Winsor to review the remuneration and conditions of forces, and some 5,000 staff. We estimate that savings of service of police officers and staff. The Government some £330 million could be found through joint have asked the review to make recommendations that procurement of goods, services and IT. The vast bulk of are fair to, and reasonable for, both the taxpayer and these savings —around a third of a billion pounds or police officers and staff. I want to emphasise the importance more—will be additional to the savings identified by of fairness to police officers, who cannot strike and who HMIC. often do a difficult and dangerous job on the public’s The time for just talking about IT convergence, collective behalf. Tom Winsor’s first report is due to be published procurement, collaboration, sharing and outsourcing in February, with the second part due in June. Taken services is over. We cannot afford not to do these things, together, we believe there are potential savings of some and we cannot afford to delay, so, where necessary, the £2.2 billion a year by 2014-15, which is greater than the Government will mandate the changes required. That is real reduction in central grant. why I am about to lay regulations before Parliament to These changes require a fundamental redesign of require the police service to buy certain IT vehicles, and policing, with far greater collaboration, shared services so on, through specified national framework arrangements. and the potential use of outsourcing. However, this does not mean a worse service to the public. Savings Keith Vaz: I am most grateful to the Minister for must be driven in the back and middle-offices of police giving way a second time. I welcome very much what he forces—areas where functions are important, even if has just said. This issue has been the subject of much invisible to the public, but could be done more efficiently. discussion in the Home Affairs Select Committee, driven These functions have grown disproportionately as the by its former member, the hon. Member for Cannock money rolled in and bureaucracy predominated. As Chase (Mr Burley). There is a need for central procurement: Peter Fahy, chief constable of Greater Manchester police, a list, a book, a catalogue—not quite like Argos, but told the Home Affairs Select Committee earlier this something that can be used as a template for various month, police forces to choose from. “some of our headquarters operations had got too big.”

Nick Herbert: I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does the support and I hope this approach will command support Minister not accept that there is a danger that if forces across the whole House, because it does make sense for cut back such staff—for instance, North Wales police is the 43 forces to procure together where that will make cutting one in four back-room staff—all that happens is savings; and the savings are quite considerable. that front-line officers have to be pulled off the beat to do that job? Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Pursuing that point, if there is some rationalisation among the Nick Herbert: No, I do not accept that at all. The 2,000 IT systems, would that not also lead to significantly challenge is to ensure that those functions are done more effective policing and a reduced risk, for instance, more efficiently; it is not simply a question of handing of systems being out of synch and data getting lost the function to someone else. No one is saying that back between different systems? and middle-office functions can or should be abolished, but they can become much leaner. Nick Herbert: I agree with my hon. Friend that Furthermore, protecting the front-line service does making these efficiencies and improvements in business not mean setting it in aspic. Productivity at the front processes is about not just saving money, but improving line can be improved, too, so that resources are better the quality of the service. Those two things are not deployed in order to maintain or improve the service to incompatible, and it is time we stopped talking as the public. For example, West Yorkshire police have though they were. significantly reduced the time taken to investigate a crime. Improving the standard of initial investigation, Robert Halfon: Will my right hon. Friend give way? they reduced the average time taken to investigate low-level crime by 85%. Wiltshire police have significantly reduced Nick Herbert: I want to make a little more progress, if the time neighbourhood and response officers spend in my hon. Friend will forgive me. custody centres, and off the streets, from an average of The inspectorate’s report focuses on reducing police 27 minutes to an average of 10 minutes. That is worth force costs to average levels, but why should forces not 3,000 extra hours of street policing. be able to go further by matching the performance of In Brighton, Sussex police have put in place a dedicated the best, rather than merely the average? If forces improve team for secondary investigations, reducing the amount productivity and adjust to the level of spend typical of of paperwork that response officers have to complete 353 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 354 and allowing them to return quickly to the streets after Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): I am glad that the answering a call. This saved nearly £1 million, improved Minister mentioned some of the collaboration taking response times and sped up the time it takes to complete place between the Sussex and Surrey forces, and the an investigation. better working with local authorities, which relates to Surrey police have changed their arrangements in an earlier point. He will know that from 1 April West order to co-locate some officers in council buildings, Sussex is to have one division, which is a way for police rather than their remaining in little-used police buildings, administration to be more efficient, and it also leads to thereby saving money. That has helped to fund the better front-line services. recruitment of additional constables. Nick Herbert: I strongly agree with my hon. Friend. I Hazel Blears: The Minister will be aware that the also gave the example of Surrey, where co-location has area-based grants that many deprived local authorities proved possible despite the funding reductions that have received to date have been used, as with my own have taken place. It shows that with innovation it is council in Salford, to tackle antisocial behaviour in possible to think afresh about how these services are exactly that way—by having co-located teams dealing delivered to the public. with the same families. That area-based grant has now The key to the changes that I have outlined is service been completely abolished—by his right hon. Friend improvement from the same or less resource. As Derbyshire’s the Secretary of State for Communities and Local chief constable said last month: Government. If there is any thought of joined-up “People won’t really see much difference in terms of neighbourhood government, clearly, this is not it. policing, emergency response and uniformed patrols—we’ll still have a huge amount of people in the front line.” Nick Herbert: I simply do not accept the right hon. We must also tackle the bureaucracy, which has tied up Lady’s contention that it is somehow not possible for police time. It is no use focusing only on police numbers services to work together because they are receiving less if too much police time is spent on inefficient or unnecessary money; that is a strong incentive for them to work tasks. Every hour of police time we save by cutting red together and to save resources. tape is an hour’s more potential time spent on front-line duties. Scrapping the stop form and reducing the stop Robert Halfon: I thank my right hon. Friend for and search form, which officers have to complete, could giving way to me for a second time. Given what I said save up to 800,000 hours of officer time. earlier about Essex police collaborating successfully I recognise the challenge facing policing. I also appreciate with police forces in the south-east, such as Kent, on that many in the police work force are worried about payroll services and on procuring helicopters and other their remuneration and indeed their jobs. I certainly do vehicles, and given what he said about passing regulation not belittle that concern, but my first priority must be to for those who do not collaborate, will he look favourably ensure that the best service is provided to the public on forces that are collaborating in future funding formulas? within the financial constraints that we all face. Every chief constable I have met has impressed upon me his or Nick Herbert: Of course we will continue to look at her determination to do everything possible to protect all these issues, and I welcome the collaboration that front-line services while dealing with the reduction in has taken place in my hon. Friend’s force. HMIC was funding. The Government are determined to work with clear that collaboration has to proceed at a faster pace, the police service to ensure that that is the case. and we will look at all the potential incentives to ensure that that is the case. 3.22 pm Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): My (Lab): Today the House is being asked to approve a right hon. Friend said something terribly important 20% cut in Government funding for the police force in about mandating collaboration, which I have long argued England and Wales. The deputy chief constable of for, particularly through the Policing and Crime Bill in Devon and Somerset, Shaun Sawyer, has said that these 2009. He talked about collaboration in the context of are procurement. What about mandated collaboration in the context of protective services? “the biggest…cuts for a generation”. The deputy chief constable of Cambridgeshire has said Nick Herbert: There is strong potential for forces to that the cuts are “unprecedented” and will have a collaborate on protective services, and again, we want “real impact on people’s lives and families.” to see such things happen. We have ensured in the Police The House is being asked to vote for 20% cuts, a Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, which is currently reduction of more than 10,000 police officers, and in Committee, that strong duties will be placed on substantial cuts to police community support officers police and crime commissioners to collaborate. It is and critical support staff. The choice for MPs today is very important that forces do that. Indeed, in a speech I whether to back those cuts to the police in their own gave a couple of weeks ago, I said that the age of police constituencies or to stand up, defend their communities fiefdoms is over. There is a need for police forces to and tell the Government to think again. work together more effectively. The Government do not believe in forced mergers of police forces, but we cannot Henry Smith rose— have 43 forces doing things all on their own when there are great savings and efficiencies to be made in exactly Yvette Cooper: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman the sort of area that my hon. Friend represents by if he will tell me whether he is prepared to support the working together. cuts to the police in his constituency. 355 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 356

Henry Smith: May I ask the right hon. Lady whether Yvette Cooper: I will come back to the point that the she supports the Darling deficit reduction plan, which I Minister raises about what Labour’s plans would be, understand the new shadow Chancellor also supports because that is important, but first let me address the and which would have seen £9 of every £10 of the issue about the front line. The Prime Minister promised Government’s proposed cuts to the police service going to protect the front line and he promised to carpet any ahead? Minister putting forward front-line cuts. The Home Secretary said that it is possible for the police to make Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman is simply wrong, significant reductions in their budgets “without affecting and I just say to him that he will be voting today to front-line policing.” But officers are being lost from the support 500 police officers being cut from the Sussex front line every single day—their number has reduced police force. I wonder whether he will put that on his by 2,000 since the election alone. London is losing leaflet when he campaigns at the next election—it will 300 sergeants from the safer neighbourhood teams, certainly be on ours. Birmingham has already lost police from its community Chief constables across the country are being put in teams, and the plans of the Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire an impossible position. Of course they are working forces have already troubled residents. Thanks to budget hard to reassure the public, to do everything they can to cuts, those forces have told gun owners that they will improve policing, to manage with the budgets that the not be doing home visits and people can renew their Minister has given them, and to deliver the best possible gun licence by phone. The police have said in response: service and keep reducing the level of crime, but they “Unfortunately in the current climate policing is having 20% are having the rug pulled from beneath them by the removed from its budgets we have to make the best use of that crazy scale and pace of these cuts. He can try all the money and we are adopting a risk based approach.” smoke and mirrors he wants—he talks about cash cuts Those police have been put in an impossible position. and hypothetical council tax increases—but the facts What is more front line than keeping neighbourhoods are very clear: there are to be more than 7% of real cuts safe or preventing gun crime? What is more front line in the police grant for next year and more than 8% the than 10,000 trained police officers? following year. The total cut is more than 20% in real We have asked the Government what they mean by terms, which is more than £2 billion, as the Minister has protecting the front line. In the other place in December, admitted. they were asked for their definition of the front-line What are the consequence of that? They are: 100 fewer policing that the Home Secretary said she would protect. police officers in Cumbria; 258 fewer police officers in It took more than two months for Baroness Neville-Jones Cheshire; 256 fewer police officers in South Wales; to reply: 114 fewer police officers in the Thames Valley; more “There is no formally agreed definition of frontline police than 1,000 fewer officers in the West Midlands; and services.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 8 February 2011; more than 1,000 fewer police officers in London. The Vol. 725, c. WA50.] result is more than 10,000 fewer police officers in England Now we know why they will not protect those services—they and Wales. They are not our figures, but the figures do not even know what they are. But crime victims and from the chief constables and police authorities across communities across the country know exactly what the country. This means 10,000 police officers gone, front-line services are and they can see that they are which is the equivalent of every police officer in Hampshire, under threat every day from this Government. Kent and Sussex put together, or every police officer in the entire east midlands. That is the reduction that these Nick Herbert rose— areas are having to face and that is just the start. Yvette Cooper: If the Minister can define them now, I will give way to him. Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con) rose— Nick Herbert: I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for Yvette Cooper: I will give way if the hon. Gentleman giving way. If she cannot define front-line services, how can say whether he will be putting the police cuts in his does she know that officers are going from the front area on his leaflet at the next election. line? Will she answer the question I asked? As she is committed to cutting police funding by more than a Mr Burley: The right hon. Lady cited a figure of £1 billion a year, will she admit that that would mean a 10,000 police officers, but can she tell the House how smaller police work force? many of them are front-line beat officers? Yvette Cooper: The Minister has tried to claim that Yvette Cooper: Perhaps I should ask the hon. Gentleman police officer jobs would go under Labour’s plans. Let what he means by the “front-line”. He may think that us be clear: our view is that we should be giving the trained police officers can just be got rid off without police enough money to protect police officers and that having any impact on the communities they serve, police community support officers across the country but that is not what his constituents think and it is not because we believe they are doing a good job. My right what the people of Staffordshire will think when 70 police hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West officers are cut as part of the planned cuts that his and Hessle (Alan Johnson), the former Home Secretary, Government are introducing. did indeed announce plans for just more than £1 billion to be made in efficiency savings over this Parliament Nick Herbert: The right hon. Lady is committed to and yes, we have made it clear that we would have cut cutting police funding by more than £1 billion a year. Is the police budget in line with those efficiency plans. He she saying that that can be done without reducing the set out measures through which that could be done, size of the work force? How many of the 10,000 police such as greater collaboration, procurement savings and officers that she has said are to go are front-line officers? better management of staff and shifts to save money on 357 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 358 overtime. We agree that the police service should continue Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): Is my to do more of what it has already been doing to improve right hon. Friend aware that more than 2,000 police efficiency. However, the Minister is cutting not £1 billion officers will go in the west midlands under the proposals? but £2 billion. Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary identified 12% of efficiency savings, not 20%, and it said: Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right: the West “A cut beyond 12% would almost certainly reduce police Midlands police are being heavily affected and are set to availability”. lose a large number of police officers. That is already having an effect on communities across the area, with Mr Burley: Will the right hon. Lady give way? some police officers reporting considerable difficulties as a result of the recruitment freeze that has had to be Yvette Cooper: I will give way if the hon. Gentleman implemented and the consequences that is having on will say whether those 70 officers will now be on his their ability to go to neighbourhood meetings and to leaflet. respond to concerns that are raised with them.

Mr Burley: The right hon. Lady mentioned Staffordshire Steve McCabe: Is not one of the problems that the police: perhaps I can explain to her what their front line West Midlands police suffer from the gearing effect? might be. Staffordshire police have committed to retaining Although the Minister has given the impression that the every police officer in their neighbourhood police teams, cuts were modest—I think he quoted £5 million in but they are still cutting 250 back-office staff. Will she Hull—the gearing effect in the West Midlands police join me in congratulating Staffordshire police on keeping means they are losing 17.2% of their total resources. all the front-line officers in their neighbourhood police That is nearly £100 million, and they cannot lose that teams? without cutting front-line staff. Yvette Cooper: Staffordshire police, like other police forces across the country, are having to work immensely Yvette Cooper: The situation in the west midlands is hard to keep the police working to do everything they clear. The number of police officers is being cut and possibly can to fight crime while they are faced with that is having an impact on the area. massive cuts. Staffordshire police are faced with a 7.5% cut The latest research on the links between police and in their budget next year alone, followed by an 8.7% cut crime from Civitas, which the Minister presumably the following year. Those steep cuts in the first year will regards as a bastion of left-wing profligacy—he shakes have consequences in relation to the 70 police officers his head to indicate that he disagrees with Civitas—shows being lost, specialist teams and the work being done that there is a across the police force. “strong relationship between the size of police forces and national The Government are cutting more from police budgets crime rates”. in two years than the former Home Secretary proposed That report states: over a Parliament. If the Home Secretary and the “A nation with a larger proportion of police officers is somewhat Minister think that can all be done through efficiency more likely to have a lower crime rate. A nation with fewer police savings, what do they have to say to the chief constables is more likely to have a higher crime rate.” across the country who are cutting officers? Are they all More importantly, perhaps, those on the Government wrong? Are they all profligate? Are they all inadequate Benches are ignoring the public. Today’s poll shows that in meeting efficiency challenges? Or is the truth that two thirds of people believe that crime will rise as a they are doing their best to manage in the face of very result of the Home Secretary’s cuts. People do not want difficult cuts? Is not the truth that the Home Secretary the cuts to the police that the Government are introducing. and the Minister have broken with more than a century of Tory tradition? They are not looking for efficiency The Minister often resorts to the claim that it is savings as an alternative to police officer cuts—they Labour’s red tape which is responsible for the fact that think that efficiency savings are the police officer cuts. only 11%—to quote the figure that he uses—of force They think that the best way to improve police productivity strength is visible and available. He fails to point out, in is to cut the number of police working across Britain. a misrepresentation of the HMIC analysis, that that figure for a 24 hours a day, seven days a week service Mark Tami: We could probably take the Government does not take account of the officers on late shift, night more seriously if the Minister had not, when in opposition, shift or rest day, or of the officers working on serious attacked Labour for not putting enough money into investigations, counter-terrorism, drugs, cyber crime or policing. child protection. The right hon. Gentleman should consider for a Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right about the moment what would happen if his own efficiency were huge difference between the claims that those on the measured in the same way. Let us imagine that the test Government side made before the election and the reality of Ministers’ efficiency was the amount of time in a of what they are doing now. 24/7 period that they spent speaking in the House of We now have the first Home Secretary and Policing Commons. The amount of time that the Policing Minister Minister in Tory party history to want fewer police spends sleeping, eating and working on knife crime, working to fight crime across Britain. The Minister is counter-terrorism or long-term planning would not be the first Policing Minister in Tory party history to counted, as the Government do not count comparable believe there is no link between the number of police time for the police. and the level of crime, ignoring the evidence of recent On the basis of the Minister’s week in the Chamber history—the 43% drop in crime in the Labour years for debate and in the Bill Committee—he has been busy alongside the 17,000 extra police and the 16,000 PCSOs. —he gets to an average visibility 24/7 of not 11%, which 359 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 360

[Yvette Cooper] The Government are taking a gamble with crime and policing, just as they are taking a gamble with the the police manage, but 3.27%, and that includes the economy. radio time that he was forced to do on Sunday. His visibility is not as good as that of the police, but I am Nick Herbert: The right hon. Lady is being generous sure he has some efficiency plans to share his red boxes in giving way, which I thank her for. Will she please across Departments. His boss, the Home Secretary, is at answer my question, which I will now ask a third time? 0%. Where, by the way, is the Home Secretary? Will she admit that the cuts of more than £1 billion in policing to which she has committed could only be Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I commend my right achieved by making the police work force smaller? hon. Friend for her great interest in what the Minister has been doing. It is a fascinating study. I know that she Yvette Cooper: We have said very clearly that we is making a powerful point, but perhaps she could be a believe that the police should have the money to protect little charitable to the Minister. It may be that the Home the number of police officers and police community Office did not envisage the kind of cuts that she has support officers. Those are the numbers of staff that we been talking about. Does she agree that Ministers should believe ought to be protected across the country, in go back to the Treasury to explain that the effects of the contrast to the cut of 10,000 in police officers. We think cuts are very severe indeed, and that an additional that we should have 10,000 more than the number the special grant ought to be given to the Home Office to Minister is now pursuing right across the country. It is deal with that? wrong for Britain and wrong for communities, and the public know it. No matter how many games he plays Yvette Cooper: My right hon. Friend makes an important with smoke and mirrors, the public know it and want point. It may well be that Ministers believed the figures the extra police officers. they were given by the Treasury and believed that We will support those extra 10,000 police officers and front-line services would not be hit. However, the pace would provide the funding to support them, because we and the scale of the cuts are indeed hitting front-line think that that is the right thing to do. The Government services. They are having an impact on police forces are taking a gamble with crime and policing, just as across the country. Ministers ought to go back to the they taking a gamble with the economy. They are cutting Treasury to discuss that again. too far and too fast. They are risking economic growth Hazel Blears: As my right hon. Friend knows, a and jobs and now are risking public safety and the fight consultation was launched this week on tackling antisocial against crime. Their Back Benchers should think again. behaviour. Whatever the Government do to rename the The Liberal Democrats are voting for a cut of 10,000 orders and introduce some kind of cosmetic change, is police officers, instead of the increase of 3,000 that they it not the truth that in order to reduce antisocial behaviour, promised, and the Conservatives are ripping up hundreds we need PCSOs and police officers on the front line in of years of supporting the police in order to cut the our communities, where it matters? front line. I say to Members of both parties that if they vote for these cuts today, they are badly out of touch Yvette Cooper: My right hon. Friend is exactly right. with what their constituents want and are turning their She worked to tackle antisocial behaviour over many backs on the fight against crime. Britain was not broken, years and initiated some extremely important work. She but the Government are doing their best to break it is right that all the powers in the world will make no now. Those Members should join us in telling the difference if we do not have the police in place to work Government to go back, think again and come back closely with communities in local areas to implement with a better plan. those powers in practice. 3.42 pm Mark Tami: What is my right hon. Friend’s view of the idea that five people should have to phone the police? Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I have That sounds a bit like red tape to me. It sounds like a sense of déjà vu in this debate, partly because we had bureaucracy that we do not need. How much will that cost? a dry run of it a few weeks ago, and partly because I heard an excellent opening speech from the Minister Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend raises an interesting during that debate. I am afraid that mine will suffer point. If four people ring up and then one rings a because other Members may have the same sense of second time, does that person count as a fifth person? déjà vu when they hear some of my points. Presumably the Home Office will set out guidance and My starting point for the debate is the same as the red tape for local communities and police to follow. Minister’s, which is that there are some inconvenient Where is the Home Secretary today? That is an facts: we have the worst deficit in the G20 and the important question, because I understand that she has largest peacetime deficit since the second world war, been sighted in the building. I know that such debates and we are spending £120 million a day on the interest are normally attended by Ministers of State, but normally alone on our debt. Those are inconvenient facts, but Home Secretaries do not cut the police grant by 20%. The they are givens, or known knowns, as Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government might say. is coming here to defend his cuts, so why will she not defend hers? Could it be because she knows that she got Mark Tami: I seem to remember that the Lib Dem stitched up in the spending review and so will not manifesto promised 3,000 extra police officers on the defend it? She left the Minister out on his own—a very streets, so the cut equates to 13,000 fewer than they thin blue line—and will not join the police cuts front promised. Does that indicate how we should treat Lib line. Dem manifestos? 361 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 362

Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his rather identifies that there was no commonly held belief that predictable intervention, but immediately before it I was those officers needed a detailed understanding of how explaining—he clearly was not listening—why the to ensure that the efficiency savings—the mergers—took Government are having to take these decisions. He and place effectively. The Government, HMIC or others the former Ministers on the Opposition Front Bench might be able to assist with training to ensure that must accept responsibility for that. officers are equipped to take such tough decisions, I listened carefully to the right hon. Member for because there are real differences between forces’ proposals. Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), Some forces are coming forward with a headline because we expect the Opposition to come forward with figure for the number of officers they are going to cut, some solutions, but during her speech I detected only while others are coming forward with a range of options— one sentence in which she referred to the £1 billion of particularly on back-office and procurement—that could cuts that they would make and said that they would do identify significant savings without the need to cut staff something about back-office functions and procurement. numbers, which some forces seem to have gone for as So that is the Opposition’s solution. That is the one the first rather than the last resort. sentence that the Opposition’s spokesperson provided, I want to raise some specific Met issues. The Minister stating how they, if in government, would have resolved will be aware that the force has not yet taken a decision the problems that we face. to cut sergeant numbers by 300; it is considering the idea, but it says it Stephen Twigg: Will the hon. Gentleman not acknowledge that, in that one sentence—I think it was “will be directed by final analysis and must reflect operational more than one sentence—of my right hon. Friend’s delivery.” speech, she referred specifically to the report of Her I urge the Met to maintain those officer numbers, but if Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary? The figure is that is not possible, to look at some of the proposals not one that we have plucked off the top of our heads; it that I mentioned, particularly on sharing back-office is based on the HMIC’s view of the savings that can be functions, joint custody suites and the like to ensure that made without damaging front-line services. the number of police officers in the safer neighbourhood teams is maintained at the level at which it is currently set. Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that Equally, as I said earlier, safer neighbourhood teams intervention. Of course he is right, and the Government may be undertaking tasks that are not their responsibility. have based their measures on the HMIC report as well, I mentioned the example of drive-outs from petrol but people who read and listen to this debate will want stations, which are taking up an inordinate amount of to hear exactly what impact HMIC’s recommendations, time in the case of at least one of my safer neighbourhood if implemented, will have on, for example, staff numbers, teams. After I raised that case, the local force have asked a point to which the official Opposition’s spokesperson to meet me to discuss it as a wider issue, so it clearly did not respond. She ducked and dived on that point. affects not just one safer neighbourhood team but The Opposition can pretend that the £40 billion of several in the borough. If a large proportion of their cuts that they intended making, including 20% cuts time is spent trying to deal with a problem that the throughout Departments, would have gone unnoticed, petrol companies should be able to resolve technologically, would have had no impact on front-line services and we should look at the issue carefully to try to free up would have left police forces throughout the country officer time to concentrate on things that really do need unscathed, but we know, they know and people outside police intervention. know that that is completely untrue. There is no point disguising the fact that the settlement Mr Burley: If we want to help the police with their is tough. That is true, and it impacts on police budgets. finances, does the hon. Gentleman agree that perhaps As the Minister said, in 2011-12 there is a 4% reduction now is the time for premiership football clubs to start in cash terms. In 2012-13, there is a 5% reduction, but, thinking about making a greater contribution to the thanks to the HMIC report and the measures that costs of policing their football matches instead of all police forces are already taking throughout the country, those police being deployed purely at taxpayers’ expense? much of the reduction can be made through greater efficiency. Tom Brake: I entirely agree. Given the stringent financial Police forces are already delivering many examples of circumstances in which the Government are operating, such efficiency. In one local example, Sutton and Merton that is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be considered. police forces are looking at sharing a custody suite, and The Minister referred to the review of staffing and if successful in those two force areas, the idea might be overtime arrangements. Although I agree that very high rolled out across the whole Met police force area and in levels of overtime are costly, and that needs to be others further afield. That is exactly the sort of measure looked at, such overtime often allows the police to that police forces and police authorities should pursue. undertake special tasks that they could not do otherwise The Minister quite rightly identified what is possible and can do without the need to grow the number of through IT systems savings and, as I said in an intervention, full-time police officers. This requires some flexibility. we can derive not only cash savings from that source, Simply saying “No more overtime”would severely constrain but great improvements in efficiency and the likelihood some of the activities that the police are undertaking of resolving cases, as the communications problems and that people clearly welcome and want to happen. between different systems are addressed. There are clearly many measures that the police can One issue that I raised in the previous debate, and on take to cut back to ensure that they are making the right which I hope the Minister has had time to do some level of efficiency savings. If the police undertake such work, is training for senior officers. The HMIC report actions, which are documented in the HMIC report, 363 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 364

[Tom Brake] Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) talked about chief constables making every effort to and if they look at the best practice that exists in police ensure that losing police officer posts is a last resort. forces around the country, they can make the savings I think I wrote down correctly that he said that some that they are being required to make without an impact chief constables were treating it as their first resort. on front-line services. I very much doubt that that is the case in any authority. I can say with certainty that it is not the case in 3.53 pm Merseyside, where the chief constable, whom I and other Liverpool MPs met in the House a couple of Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): weeks ago, has made every effort to maximise efficiencies I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this and minimise the direct impact on local people through debate. the loss of police officers. No Labour Member would argue with the contention that there is always scope for efficiency in public services, Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): The including the police service. My right hon. Friend the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford Brake) spoke about inconvenient facts. Last year, the (Yvette Cooper) spoke about the HMIC report, as did Liberal Democrats in Greater Manchester, and no doubt the Minister. Our opposition to what the Government in Merseyside, went into the election knowing about the are planning is based on the sheer scale of the cuts to deficit and promising more, not fewer, police. Does my the police service that are set out. My additional argument, hon. Friend agree that the Liberal Democrats have a on which I will elaborate and on which I intervened on duty to apologise to our constituents for giving a false the Minister, is that there is unfairness in the allocation impression of what they would do in office? of those cuts as between different police forces around the country. Stephen Twigg: Absolutely; I concur with my hon. I should like to comment on the work that Merseyside Friend. Of course, that is not the only promise that the police are doing. As in the case, I imagine, of most, if Liberal Democrats made to the British people last May not all hon. Members on both sides of the House, crime that they have broken. They made that promise knowing, and antisocial behaviour are consistently the biggest as my hon. Friend said, what the Budget position was. issues that my constituents raise with me on the doorstep, It was a deeply irresponsible pledge to make. in surveys, in correspondence and at surgeries. In recent Tom Brake: Does the hon. Gentleman not also agree years, Merseyside police have faced some very serious that it would have been appropriate for the Labour challenges. Merseyside is No. 1 of any police force in Government to announce that the structural deficit was the country in terms of the number of drug offences. I £12 billion higher than they led the public to believe? am therefore very concerned about the impact of cuts that are being made to the UK Border Agency, as well Stephen Twigg: The figures were very much in the as cuts to local government and voluntary sector services public domain. To be fair to the Conservative party, it for those with drug addiction. did say that it would prioritise cuts. There is a specific In other areas, Merseyside has made truly remarkable issue about the Liberal Democrats having said one progress in recent years. In 2005-06, it was the third thing in opposition and saying the complete opposite highest police force in the country for violent crime, now that they are part of the coalition Government. with a rate of 25.6 offences per 1,000 population. Thanks to the hard work of the police, including their work Mark Tami: With the Liberal Democrats, the issue is with the local community, that rate has halved over the not just about the police. I remember many Opposition past five years to 13 per 1,000, putting us 22nd in days on which the Liberal Democrats argued that we England, which puts it in the lower half of police forces. were not spending enough money in a host of areas. That is truly remarkable progress. Every indication that I have is that Merseyside police are determined to Stephen Twigg: My hon. Friend makes his point continue that progress, even in the context of the cuts powerfully. I will not focus the rest of my speech on that we are discussing. Liberal Democrat broken promises, but the case has Almost four years ago in what is now my constituency, been very well made. there was the tragic murder of Rhys Jones. His death I intervened on the Minister to raise the question of provided the context for a greater focus on crime, including the fairness of the distribution of the cuts. He set out violent crime, in Liverpool and across Merseyside. In the consultation process in some detail, and entirely considering the way forward for Merseyside and the understandably set out the forces and authorities that fairness, or rather unfairness, of the proposed cuts, would lose out if there were some attempt to protect everyone in my constituency is concerned to ensure that those that were more reliant on central Government never again do we see the tragedy of what happened to funding and they had lobbied against that. I appreciate young Rhys. The police responded brilliantly and with what he said about the nature of the formula and the great professionalism in that case, which resulted in difficulty of changing it, and clearly the cuts relate to serious convictions by the courts for those who murdered the original formula. Unfortunately, I am not suggesting Rhys Jones. that that can be changed quickly, but I repeat what I Already in 2010-11, 200 police officer jobs and 80 police said in my intervention: I hope that the Government staff jobs are being lost in Merseyside. There is a will consider the matter as we move forward. moratorium on further recruitment, which will continue Looking at the estimated police budget figures that into next year. The police have estimated that by March the Library has produced, we see that in the forthcoming 2012—in just over a year’s time—we will have lost almost financial year, 2011-12, Merseyside’s estimated police 10% of police officer posts in Merseyside. The hon. budget, taking into account local revenue raising as well 365 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 366 as central Government funding, will be cut by 5.8% whereas Mike Cunningham and the chairman of the police Surrey’s cut will be 3.7%. There is every indication that authority, David Pearsall, have stated that Staffordshire that gap will apply again in the following year and police have made no final decision to close any particular therefore have a cumulative effect. station in the county. Crucially, they have also said that In Merseyside, there have consistently been increases they will close no stations unless and until alternative in the police authority precept over recent years. The bases have been found within the localities concerned. local police authority has not thought, “We’re getting That reassessment of resources is doubtless owing in all this money from central Government, so we can let part to the Minister’s announcement, and it is worth our council tax payers off and freeze the precept or have Government Members remembering that these are not only a modest increase.” There have been significant cuts of choice, but cuts to correct overspending by increases in the amount contributed by council tax Labour in the boom years, which has left this country payers in Merseyside to the funding of the police. The with one of the biggest deficits in the world. I did not basic reality is that on average, people in Merseyside are come into politics to cut police numbers, having worked poorer than people in Surrey.The reason why Merseyside’s with the police for many years before becoming a Member local police depend more on central Government funding of Parliament, but the reality is that when we are than others is primarily to do with deprivation. That spending £120 million every day just to service the point applies also to other authorities, and when there interest on our debt, something has to give. are cuts on the scale that we are seeing, it is a cause for great concern. To his credit, the Minister undertook It is also worth remembering that during the election earlier to consider the matter again in future. Perhaps I campaign, the then Home Secretary declined to guarantee might ask that he meet Merseyside MPs at his early police numbers or individual police stations. When the convenience to discuss those concerns. right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) was shadow Home Secretary, he agreed with Her Majesty’s Nick Herbert indicated assent. inspectorate of constabulary—an independent body—that £1 billion efficiency savings could be made without Stephen Twigg: The Minister nods, so I am delighted hitting the front line. However, I wonder whether he to accept that we can have that meeting. knew how that would have come about. When he came Clearly, the cuts will have an impact on forces right before the Select Committee on Home Affairs, I asked across the country, but that impact will differ. When him whether he thought it would be better if the police there are spending cuts on such a scale, it is incumbent spent more time on patrol than they spend on paperwork. on the Government to consider the unfairness of those He responded: different impacts. There is clearly a need for savings in “I think that is a too simplistic question for me to give a public expenditure on the police, and HMIC has considered sensible answer”. the matter in great detail and come up with the quoted Perhaps in her winding-up speech the new shadow Home figure of 12%. My contention today is, first, that by Secretary will give us a sensible answer to that short, going so significantly above that figure, the Government simple question, which her husband failed to answer. will inevitably damage the police service across the country; secondly, that the effects are not fair or consistent The changes in police stations in Staffordshire are not but differ for the reasons that I have given; and thirdly, just about saving money; they are also about changing that those effects are compounded by the impact of shift patterns. Proposals for briefing response teams at other cuts in public spending, particularly local government fewer locations from April 2011 are currently being cuts. considered. That is an independent operational matter Merseyside police receives direct funding from Liverpool designed to improve the briefing process of sergeants, and other local authorities for aspects of its work on and to improve communications and intelligence sharing. antisocial behaviour. I hope that the councils will be It follows from that operational decision that some of able to protect that funding, but I am not confident that the nine stations under review may become underused. they will be fully able to do so. On top of the cuts that Even if that happens, it would not automatically mean we are discussing today, Liverpool’s police force and that any of those stations would close. others around the country will therefore lose further However, it could mean Staffordshire police beginning funding for some of the important partnership work to share buildings with partner agencies such as schools, that they do on tackling antisocial behaviour. church halls, libraries and shops. In fact, the police I urge the Government to think again, and I urge already share a base in Stafford with a Territorial Army Home Office Ministers to press the Treasury to give recruiting base. I have opened an office in a former shop policing and law and order the priority that the Government in Cannock town centre with a no-appointments-necessary have given schools and the national health service. culture. People can drop into the “MP help zone”, as it Voters—our constituents—would expect us to give the is known locally, any time from 9 to 5, Monday to police service that priority, and I hope that in the light Friday, to get help with their problems. Most of my of today’s debate, the Government will do so. staff—three of the four people whom I employ—work in the help zone rather than down here in Westminster, 4.4 pm helping local people who come through the door with Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): A big their problems. I should like to take this opportunity to meeting is happening in my constituency today. The pay tribute to their important work. Staffordshire police authority is meeting to discuss the Other people also use the help zone, including local proposals for the future of nine police stations across charities, voluntary groups, schools and—guess what?—the the force area. In “plain speak”, at some point in the police. The police use it for surgeries with local people, future, some of those stations could close, including one to organise neighbourhood watches and as a general in Rugeley in the heart of my constituency.Chief Constable base. Is that not the model for the future, with police in 367 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 368

[Mr Aidan Burley] heavily reliant on funding from central Government, and I shall reiterate some of the important points that existing locations in the community such as shops, he made. supermarkets, MPs’ offices, libraries and schools, rather Some 82% of the force’s budget comes from the than in underused old police buildings, which are formula grant. Only the City of London, Northumbria increasingly expensive to run? and West Midlands forces are more reliant on formula The nine stations under review cost £1 million a year grant funding. Can the Minister explain to the people to run. How could that money be better spent on the of Liverpool why the real-terms percentage cut facing front line—on officers on patrol, or on specialist officers Merseyside in the 2011-12 financial year is 5.8%, while to deal with domestic violence and child protection, Surrey— which receives only 51% of its funding from rather than simply on bricks and mortar? Why not look central Government—is receiving a cut of just 3.7% in to use cheaper, more front-line locations for use by the real terms? police as a front-desk base and a home for neighbourhood The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice said officers, and release the money for more police on our to the Liverpool Echo on October 15 last year: streets? “The priority is...helping police officers working on the front I pay tribute to Staffordshire police force, which is line.” one of the most forward-looking forces in this country. Merseyside police chief constable, Jon Murphy, has As I said earlier, it has committed to retaining all police said that his force is doing, and will do, everything it can officers in neighbourhood teams and front-line staff, to maintain frontline policing. In fact, since 2004 Merseyside rather than wedding itself to a public service housing police have made maximising police numbers on the estate. The aim of this Government is to cut bureaucracy, streets a priority. As a result of rigorous efficiency and to enable the police to be crime fighters, not form savings, which have been recognised nationally by the writers. It is not the size of the work force that counts, Department, and reinvestment in frontline policing, but how it is deployed. It is not the number of police Merseyside police have increased police numbers by stations in Staffordshire that matters, but keeping police hundreds of officers. But we are very concerned that the embedded in the community, visible and accessible, Government have made no allowances for the extensive with bases that do not cost more than they need to. efficiency savings already made, before cutting the formula Without more effective deployment, modernisation of grant so harshly. It will now be impossible to maintain shift patterns and improved productivity, the number of front-line police levels when Merseyside police will see local police officers engaged in local policing can still real-terms funding cuts of 7% in 2011-12 and 8.8% in increase, despite cuts overall. 2012-13. Labour has the brass neck to criticise the police grant Merseyside police are having to cut 200 police officers settlement announced today, but it was its mishandling and 80 police staff by March of this year. In addition, a of the economy that brought this country to the brink moratorium on police recruitment is continuing until of bankruptcy, so that we are paying £120 million a day 2012, and this will result in roughly another 200 police to service the interest on our debt. That money is going officers going in that financial year. That means that to foreign investment bankers to pay for their own Merseyside police will lose close to 10% of its police police services, rather than ours. But we have brought officers by March 2012. Tough choices have already had this country back from the brink. If the exam question to be made, including the closure of the dedicated today is “How do we maintain a visible police presence antisocial behaviour unit. even while we have to cut police spending?” the answer To substantiate those savage cuts, the Policing Minster is that, with barely one 10th of the police available on has said that there is no simple link between police the streets at any one time, we know that there is room numbers and crime levels. However, I would like to to make them more visible, more available and more bring to his attention a number of studies that contradict effective as crime fighters. that. A study of crime rates and police numbers across The years of top-down bureaucratic accountability Europe published on 7 January by the think-tank Civitas—I have broken the relationship between the police and the mention Civitas because it is a think-tank that the public. The police are not responsive enough to the Government are normally inclined to listen to—suggests public, and the public do not trust enough in the police. that there is indeed a clear link. Using the most recent That is not the police’s fault; it is the truth of Labour’s data from the “European Sourcebook of Crime and legacy. I want to take this opportunity to thank every Criminal Justice Statistics”, Civitas compared the number officer in Staffordshire for everything that they do to of police officers per 100,000 of the population and keep us safe, day in and day out. This Government recorded offences per 100,000 of the population. Civitas supports them, despite the dreadful economic legacy. said that the data suggest With our reforms and their hard work and bravery, we “an association between police officers per head of population will not let Labour’s mishandling of the economy put and crimes per head. A nation with a larger proportion of police our communities in danger. officers is somewhat more likely to have a lower crime rate. A nation with fewer police is more likely to have a higher crime rate.” 4.11 pm However, that is not the only study to suggest such a Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): link. I am grateful to be called to speak in this important debate, especially as cuts in policing will impact so Tom Brake: Is it not also true, however, that the greatly on my constituents. We heard earlier from my Civitas report says: hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby “police numbers and resources are far from the only contributor (Stephen Twigg) about how Merseyside police force is to police effectiveness”? 369 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 370

Luciana Berger: Having spent a lot of time meeting I should like to place on record what the Suffolk the Merseyside police authority, I know that the vast police authority is receiving this year, compared with proportion of its funding is taken up by staffing costs, previous years. The Home Office principal formula which are a massive element. I accept that other factors police grant in 2008-09 was £40.2 million. In 2009-10, it can contribute to efficiency savings, but when such a was £41.5 million. The figure for 2010-11 is £42.8 million, high proportion of the funding goes on staffing, there and for 2011-12, the first year of this grant settlement, it are only so many efficiency savings that can be made. is £45.9 million. It is forecast to fall in 2012-13 to Indeed, a number of other studies have confirmed the £42.8 million for the county of Suffolk. The total formula link. A study published in The British Journal of Criminology grant, which includes moneys from the Department for in 1999, a 2005 study by the university of Cambridge Communities and Local Government settlement, was and, more recently, a study last year by the university of £69.2 million in 2008-09, rising to £71 million in 2009-10, Birmingham all evidenced the link between higher to £72.7 million in 2010-11 and to £73.2 million in policing levels and lower crime rates. Civitas concluded 2011-12. The total formula grant for policing in the by saying: county of Suffolk will fall to £68.3 million in 2012-13. “Members of the public are at greater risk of crime in the I will meet the Chief Constable of Suffolk, Simon coming year.” Ash, shortly to discuss how those numbers will impact I know that it is not just academics who are deeply on policing on the ground. Here, today, we need to ask concerned about the effect that the cuts will have, because ourselves what Ministers are going to be able to do to my constituents have told me that they are, too. I recently ensure that these funding constraints do not undermine conducted a survey in my constituency, and was astounded crime prevention and detection. In short, how will by the number of responses that I received—more than law-abiding citizens be kept safe from crime and from 800. Some 77% of those respondents told me that they the fear of crime? The answer must be that the police were concerned about the effect that a reduction in will have to more with less, and there should be scope police numbers would have on the policing of their for that. neighbourhoods. The Minister might not see a simple Again, I pay tribute to the previous Labour Government link between the cuts and people’s safety in their to the extent that they managed to increase the number communities, but I do, and most importantly, so do my of police posts to 147,000—a record in this country’s constituents. It is time the Minister came clean and history. Sadly, however, they did not ensure that those admitted what we all know: that these reckless cuts will officers spent more time on patrol. I will not repeat the take police off our streets and make our communities statistic from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary less safe. I urge him to think again. that the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford used earlier. Instead, I will use one that the hon. Member for Gedling gave me when 4.17 pm I was shadowing him. He told me that patrol officers Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): It is themselves—not all police officers, and not CID—spent worth reminding ourselves and the right hon. Member an average of 14% of their time on patrol. That was the for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette statistic at the time of the last general election. Most of Cooper)—after her, if I may say so, commendably feisty my constituents would find that not only utterly unbelievable speech—that public spending constraint in this country but utterly unacceptable. is inevitable, because of record debt and record peacetime I am not going to lay the blame for that on the borrowing. The police services of this country cannot previous Labour Administration. The problem of police be exempt from the tough decisions that the Government bureaucracy has been going on for a lot longer than make. Frankly, a Government who did not make those that. This bureaucratic mindset is certainly not the fault decisions would not be worthy of the name. of police officers, who, in my experience, especially of The police grant report before us shows that central Suffolk constabulary, are professionals dedicated to Government funding for policing will fall by 20% in real protecting the public from harm. It is the fault of the terms by 2014-15. If the precept rises that are forecast in many-headed hydra of bureaucracy, with its so-called the Office for Budget Responsibility report to 2014-15 police “doctrine”, paperwork, process and systems, that take effect—we have no reason to think that they will has been building up over decades. It embeds a risk-averse not—the real-terms cut will be 14%. In considering culture, and it stifles any can-do approach in policing. those stark figures, we should also have regard to two Bureaucracy is wasting police time. I contend that, if statistics. The first is that there was a 5% increase in we are to ask the police to do more with less, we have to police numbers between 2004 and 2009. In 2004, when take an axe to the bureaucracy and mean it. Unfortunately, there were 5% fewer police officers, I do not recall the under successive Governments of both political stripes, world or the ceiling caving in. Ministers have too often reached for the political rhetoric We also know that police services in this country of “a bonfire of regulations” and so forth. Rarely has since 1997 have been incredibly well resourced. I must that rhetoric been followed up with tough ministerial pay a debt of honour to the hon. Member for Gedling action to repeal unnecessary secondary legislation and (Vernon Coaker), who was my opposite number when I unnecessary primary legislation to allow the police to was the shadow policing Minister. He was part of a get on with the job. Labour Home Office that invested in the police service If we are to ask the police to do more with less, it over the years, and from 1997 there was a 20% real-terms seems incumbent on the Government of the day to increase in policing. I do not recall our ever voting reduce the burden on ordinary, hard-working police against those measures on police grants. So let us recall constables—an issue that has implications for the police that a huge amount of money has been put into the officer numbers debate. Commenting recently on the police service in recent times. spending reductions that were in prospect under the previous 371 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 372

[Mr David Ruffley] It is a thorny issue. We can see the logic behind the introduction of statutory charging—it was intended to Government as much as they are under the present one, reduce the number of cracked trials and discontinuances, Chief Superintendent Steve Hartley of the Bolton force which were extremely expensive for the Courts Service in Lancashire said: and for Government generally—but there is a definite “We have got to be clear—success isn’t just founded on numbers. sense that it has reduced the rapidity with which charging It’s how we use people. This is not just about cuts. It’s about how sergeants in custody suites can charge someone who is we get our officers in the right places at the right time for the right pretty likely to plead guilty, having been caught red-handed. reasons.” We do not need sergeants in custody suites hanging around waiting for the CPS. All too few police stations As my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase have a CPS lawyer on site to give a quick and simple (Mr Burley) suggested, counting the number of police instruction or approval to the sergeant in question; officers in uniform is not a realistic measure, in the most do not benefit from that luxury. current climate, of what constitutes good and effective law and order, or good and effective policing. Surely, as The second suggestion by Jan Berry’s team that struck a matter of logic—I have a great deal of respect for the me, because I have some experience of it as well, was right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and that we should remove the requirement to complete Castleford, who is an extremely bright parliamentarian disclosure schedules—which must be written out laboriously and understands numbers—it is not beyond the wit of by uniformed officers because that is what is provided man or all of us in the House to understand that what by the relevant primary legislation, although we all counts is the number of visible police hours delivered by know that they must be checked by the CPS eventually a constabulary, not just the uniformed officers it has. If in any case—prior to first hearing in the magistrates one hour out of every seven of a patrol officer’s time is court. It was also suggested that we should consider spent on patrol, surely we can agree that, in principle, shifting the trigger point for more serious offences in that one hour could be increased to two, three or even the Crown court to the point at which a not guilty plea four hours if we cut the bureaucracy on the police. is entered. The role of Ministers comes into play here. That Another hardy annual is, of course, the Regulation of bureaucracy cannot be cut by the Police Federation or Investigatory Powers Act 2000— “the grim RIPA”, as it by the Association of Chief Police Officers, and it is sometimes called—and the way in which it is applied certainly cannot be cut by the police constable on the to relatively routine direct surveillance operations. For street. It has to come from the top. Bureaucracy reduction instance, a police constable may wish to carry out must come, in the first instance, from policing Ministers. surveillance of a supermarket car park because he has reasonable grounds for believing that a great deal of Since the general election, I have heard that 800,000 breaking and entering is taking place. Some police police hours have been saved by the current Government forces, amazingly—although not all—interpret the RIPA as a result of the abolition of the stop and account form guidance and the statutory codes as meaning that a and the streamlining of stop-and-search procedures. constable must obtain a RIPA written authorisation That is a paltry amount if we realise that there are more from his superiors, which can be extremely time-consuming, than 147,000 police officers—we have got to do better before he can go to the car park and hide behind a wall than that. I would be grateful if the Minister for Policing to see whether any villains are going to start breaking and Criminal Justice set my mind at rest on this point in into cars. We must do something about that kind of his concluding speech. ridiculous approach to applying RIPA and observing Two reports by Jan Berry were commissioned by the the statutory codes. One option would be to rewrite the previous Labour Government—quite sensibly, as she is codes. The hon. Member for Gedling said that he was a well-respected and intelligent former chair of the interested in that option. I hope that my right hon. Police Federation, which had representation on her working Friend the Minister can confirm that action is being body, as did ACPO, members of the public, clever civil taken in regard to RIPA and similar procedures. servants and others. The task was to produce a list of Let us talk about this. Let us tell the police officers on measures to reduce bureaucracy and red tape on our the ground what we are doing for them: what the House hard-working, front-line police officers. I would like to of Commons is doing to cut the nonsensical amount of rattle through some of the bigger ticket items that bureaucracy under which they labour. They have had struck me as important, on which I believe we should enough, the public have had enough, I have had enough, take action. I am citing from the list of conclusions in and I am sure that the Minister has had enough—not of the final report produced by her reducing bureaucracy what I am saying, but of the ridiculous, endless use of taskforce, which said: rhetoric and the absence of action. Let us see the Home “Consider evaluation of the Modernising Charging Pilots with Office get a grip. a view to rolling out improved arrangements where charging The next issue that I want to raise has been discussed decisions are taken by the appropriate person according to the with me by the esteemed Chair of the Home Affairs complexity and seriousness of offence.” Committee, the right hon. Member for Leicester East My right hon. Friend the Minister has done some (Keith Vaz). At the beginning of 2009, there were four work on that, as indeed have I. The idea was that we pilot schemes in Leicestershire, the west midlands, should look again at the statutory charging regime that Staffordshire and Surrey. I do not want to be too the previous Government introduced in 2004, and establish “anoraky” about the subject, but the gist of the objective whether a charging sergeant could charge people with was to slim down the crime and incident recording part more offences in the “triable either way” category without of the duty of a police officer who arrests someone for, the need for an automatic reference to the Crown say, shoplifting in a store. Could not the information Prosecution Service beforehand. simply be written on a side of A4, or the equivalent on a 373 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 374 hand-held device? It would be useful to know whether My final and most important plea is this: if we are to those pilots have been rolled out to every single police be taken seriously as a Government who are keen to force in the country; and, if not, what powers does the achieve our goals, for public interest reasons and because Minister have to ensure that that is done? On many we want the police to spend more time on patrol and occasions, I have been wearily told that this is a matter less time behind their desks, we have to show that we are for chief constables. The time has come for a bit of serious about tackling bureaucracy. Will the Minister centralisation that works, in order to ensure that police undertake to produce an annual report to Parliament forces adopt sensible common-sense procedures to reduce setting out the procedures, forms and processes he has bureaucracy. abolished with an estimate by each item of the number of police hours saved as a result of those cuts in One key element of reducing bureaucracy and saving bureaucracy? I hope that my right hon. Friend will take police time—so that officers can spend more time on the opportunity to use mandated collaboration and patrol, apart from anything else—is getting rid of the attach penalties to it, and to make a report to Parliament double or treble keying of information. That is the telling us how many police hours he has saved each year phenomenon by which sometimes a single piece of he has been the Minister, and I hope he is the Minister information, such as a suspect’s address, name or date for a very long time. of birth, has to be keyed into different forms even if they are online because of the incompatibility of certain IT systems. It is all very easy to say, “Well, let’s just get 4.40 pm better IT,” but the fact is that this is a very difficult and complicated issue. There are also huge resource implications Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): It is always a pleasure in junking legacy systems, and although having one to follow the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds national computer system might speed things up in (Mr Ruffley), and given the risk of having the hon. theory, it is not really an idea of this world. I would be Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) make throat- grateful if the Minister gave a short answer to the cutting signs at me, as well, I will try to be as brief as question of what we are doing about having a national possible. We started off talking about police cuts, but I set of police forms available on one IT platform. think we will soon have cuts to this debate. We have heard excellent speeches and I am sure that the House, Reducing bureaucracy is the most important thing eager to get on to the next business, will not want me to this House and Government can do to ensure the detain it for too long on this subject. money set out in this grant goes further and is spent in a This is a very important subject, however, and I want smarter way. But there is another area that should also to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds, be addressed: the general efficiency agenda, which my who made a thoughtful and eloquent speech. It was right hon. Friend the Minister spoke about so compellingly right for him to praise the work of the previous and, I know, from a deep well of knowledge. I just want Government, in particular my hon. Friend the Member to strike a note of caution. Having worked in the for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), and the fact that there Treasury under my right hon. and learned Friend the was such investment in the police service. He was right Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) and having also to praise them for the amount of money they spent, done the policing job as a shadow Minister in the which has resulted, of course, as he then told us, in the previous Parliament, I got rather tired of the alphabet economic problem that is affecting the country, and the soup of consultants from PWC, KPMG and Deloitte need, in this Government’s view, to try to cut that who would regularly—and for huge sums of money, so expenditure. far as I could work out—pile into a constabulary, do a report stating the mind-numbingly obvious about how What was important about the speech of the hon. the police could speed things up, and then promptly Member for Bury St Edmunds is that he concentrated decamp. The police might follow the recommended on the bread-and-butter issues that sometimes elude us procedures for a year or two, but the lessons they had when we discuss these matters in the House. Front-Benchers been taught by these highly paid consultants were often are rightly concerned about numbers; indeed, the police forgotten, and even if not forgotten were not able to grant debate is getting very much like a debate on deliver the serious efficiency gains of the magnitude my immigration, in which Front-Benchers rightly concentrate right hon. Friend the Minister is talking about in the on numbers. However, to the public, the real issue is, context of this settlement. We need smarter procurement, how does this affect them in their constituencies? How shared back-office services and, most importantly, mandated does it affect the local police force? Are they going to collaboration. get less of a service than they had before the suggested changes? In concluding, I want to ask the Minister two final questions that are key to those of us who want this The hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley), police grant to represent value for money so we get the whom we in the Home Affairs Select Committee greatly most bang for our buck. First, I echo a point made by miss, has his own version of dealing with these cuts. He my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) has set up a help zone, so if anyone needs a policeman, about police authorities and chief constables needing to they do not necessarily have to go to the local police do the right thing by getting on with collaborating to station; they can visit the hon. Gentleman’s staff. I am save money and to squeeze efficiencies out of their glad he paid tribute to his staff, because the number of budgets. In my experience—and history tells us this, calls they get will probably increase as a result of his too—the likelihood is that they are not going to do that contribution today. if left to do so on an ad hoc basis. Therefore, when the Chief constables have rightly taken up the challenge Minister starts mandating, will he also consider imposing set by this Government, and their tone has changed financial penalties on police authorities that do not enormously since the proposals were announced. Certainly, mandate and do not deliver police efficiencies? the tone of the chief constable of Manchester, in his 375 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 376

[Keith Vaz] One of the real questions for the previous Government is why we had 13 years of record expenditure but latest press release of 9 February, is quite different from perhaps not the challenges that ought to have been the one he adopted before, when he lamented the number made by Ministers about how the money was spent—that of police officers who would be taken off his payroll. is not a criticism of my hon. Friend the Member for Now he is saying that he welcomes the need for Gedling. I am not saying that the money was misspent, collaboration; indeed, I think he said in the final sentence but it is important to examine what happened to that of his press release that he was “upbeat” about the cuts. expenditure. Of course, that contrasts with what he has said before, The hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds discussed and certainly contrasts with the quotes given to this bureaucracy. I think that he will find agreement on that House by my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford issue across the whole House but, as he said, we tend to and Eccles (Hazel Blears), who has quoted other chief talk about these things but what really matters is constables who are very concerned. I am not sure whether implementation. That brings me to my third and it is because one chief constable is starting off their penultimate point, which relates to the new landscape career and another is ending theirs; but the fact is that of policing. I say to the Minister that we do not yet have they are in a very difficult position. a narrative on crime and crime reduction from this The Minister is going to have to accept that, during Government. We have had some ambitious plans. The his term as Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice—the Select Committee has never worked so hard to keep up Select Committee has always found him extremely helpful with the number of changes that the Government are and courteous in providing us with information—there envisaging, first with the police and crime commissioners, are going to be fewer police officers. It is difficult for then with changes on police financing and then on the him to say that, and certainly difficult for someone like new landscape of policing. However, we needed to have me, who, in debates such as this in 23 years in this some kind of a template before we embarked on those House, has always expected Conservative Ministers and major changes. shadow Ministers—and, indeed, Liberal Democrats—to We know that the Government want to abolish the ask for more police officers, rather than fewer. However, Serious Organised Crime Agency and that the National fewer officers is the inevitable consequence, and whether Policing Improvement Agency is going to go, but it the figure is the 10,000 talked about by my right hon. should have been up to the NPIA to give leadership to Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and local police forces on procurement. What is going to Castleford (Yvette Cooper), the smaller figure mentioned happen now? It seems that individual forces will be by the Government—we do not have a precise figure charged for access to the databases of the new national from them—or the 20,000 referred to by the Police crime agency. What worries me about the budget is that Federation, the fact is there will be fewer police officers. that has not been factored in. It is vital that we know This is, therefore, a big challenge, which is why I what extra charges will fall on local police forces as a welcome what the Minister said about procurement. result of the creation of the national crime agency. My final point is that whatever budgets a local police Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab): Will my right authority puts in place, a police and crime commissioner hon. Friend give way? will be elected. As the House knows, the previous Government changed their position on the election of Keith Vaz: Of course. Unless it is to tell me that I have members of police authorities. Now that the Government to stop, I will certainly give way to my hon. Friend. have decided that this is what they want to do, people should allow police and crime commissioners the Mr Campbell: As if I would. My right hon. Friend opportunity to manage the local police force. However, talks about the work of his Committee. The Minister they will be inheriting a budget that has been set by a said that although the damping mechanism was applied previous police authority, and the demands from the this time, it may not be in the future, at a cost of a newly elected police and crime commissioners for more further £30 million of cuts to Northumbria police in the police officers will be much more important to the future. Will my right hon. Friend undertake to seek to Government than even the demands from Labour work very closely with the Government should those Members. changes to that formula and mechanism ever come to So there is still much work to be done on the landscape fruition? of policing and I do not think we can accept the current situation as being the end. Many right hon. and hon. Keith Vaz: The Select Committee is always keen to Members, including some from Liverpool and Staffordshire, work with the Government. I do not wish to prejudge and the hon. Members for Carshalton and Wallington the report on police finances that we will be publishing (Tom Brake) and for Bury St Edmunds, have pointed in a fortnight’s time. The Minister gave good evidence out that there will be fewer officers, and that does mean to the Committee, providing some interesting figures, a reduction in service. How local police forces deal with and the House will have to wait for that report to see that depends on the leadership of Ministers, which I what members of the Committee have had to say. hope will be forthcoming. The Minister is right to focus on procurement. He is also right to say that 80% of the budget relates to 4.49 pm staffing, but that does not mean that we should not examine the issue of procurement. The hon. Member Nick Herbert: With the leave of the House, I shall for Harlow (Robert Halfon), who is not in his place, respond briefly to the points that hon. Members have talked about this issue, and Essex and Kent police, made. First, I have listened to the points made by the along with other police authorities, are working together. hon. Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) 377 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 378 and for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) and I Yvette Cooper: On that point, will the Minister look understand the implications for forces that raise less again at the answer he gave to my hon. Friend the money from local council tax payers. I have explained Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), in which he said why the decision we took was fair, I have said that we the figure was because of Labour’s red tape, and will he will continue to discuss these issues and the impacts on withdraw it? forces, and I am happy to have a meeting. I always pay attention to the views of the right hon. Nick Herbert: It is, in part, because of Labour’s red Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who chairs the tape that visibility is too low. The right hon. Lady Select Committee on Home Affairs. I believe we have should understand that and should not dismiss the set out in clear terms how the police landscape must inspectorate’s report. The situation could be improved change, but his remarks will no doubt move me to make by dealing with all these issues. a further speech on the issue, a copy of which I will of The Opposition are in an untenable position, because course send to him, to clarify the position. I draw his they would cut police funding and they know that that and the House’s attention to the speech I gave to the would mean a smaller police work force. City Forum two weeks ago when I set out in terms how Question put, the savings that we need to achieve could be made. The House divided: Ayes 302, Noes 216. I commend the speeches of my hon. Friends, particularly Division No. 197] [4.54 pm that of my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Mr Ruffley), who admonished the House about the AYES drive to reduce bureaucracy. I took every word he said Adams, Nigel Campbell, rh Sir Menzies seriously. The Government will say more about this and Afriyie, Adam Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair we are driving this issue, as is the leadership of the Aldous, Peter Carswell, Mr Douglas police service. We have made progress but there is more Alexander, rh Danny Cash, Mr William to do. I shall write to my hon. Friend regarding his Amess, Mr David Chishti, Rehman additional points about how we should secure the very Andrew, Stuart Chope, Mr Christopher important reductions in the bureaucratic burden on Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Clappison, Mr James the police. Bacon, Mr Richard Clark, rh Greg I particularly welcomed the speeches of my hon. Bagshawe, Ms Louise Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Baker, Norman Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Friends the Members for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley) Baldry, Tony Coffey, Dr Thérèse and for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake), who Baldwin, Harriett Collins, Damian has had to leave the Chamber. They focused on how Barclay, Stephen Colvile, Oliver resources are deployed rather than just on the amount Barker, Gregory Cox, Mr Geoffrey of money. Baron, Mr John Crabb, Stephen Both sides, including the Opposition, admit that police Barwell, Gavin Crockart, Mike funding has to be cut, so both sides must recognise that Bebb, Guto Crouch, Tracey that must mean the overall police work force will fall. Beith, rh Sir Alan Davey, Mr Edward What is totally disreputable about the Opposition’s Bellingham, Mr Henry Davies, David T. C. attack is that they would cut funding and they know Benyon, Richard (Monmouth) that that would mean a smaller work force, but they still Berry, Jake Davies, Glyn Bingham, Andrew Davis, rh Mr David mounted that political attack. The public will see through Binley, Mr Brian de Bois, Nick it. In dismissing the finding in the HMIC report that Birtwistle, Gordon Dinenage, Caroline police availability and visibility is too low, the right hon. Blackman, Bob Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford Blackwood, Nicola Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen (Yvette Cooper) shows that she is new to the job and Blunt, Mr Crispin Dorries, Nadine has homework to do. The report says: Boles, Nick Doyle-Price, Jackie “The fact is that general availability, in which we include Bone, Mr Peter Drax, Richard neighbourhood policing and response, is relatively low.” Bottomley, Sir Peter Duddridge, James She should pay attention to the inspectorate’s Bradley, Karen Dunne, Mr Philip recommendations rather than dismissing them so lightly Brady, Mr Graham Ellis, Michael after just a few weeks in her job. Brake, Tom Ellwood, Mr Tobias Bray, Angie Elphicke, Charlie Yvette Cooper: Will the Minister withdraw his claim Bridgen, Andrew Eustice, George that the 11% figure was entirely due to Labour’s red tape, Brine, Mr Steve Evans, Graham Brokenshire, James Evans, Jonathan as opposed to the fact that some police officers are on Brooke, Annette Evennett, Mr David night shift or late shift and that some of them are doing Bruce, Fiona Fabricant, Michael work on the drugs force, organised crime and a whole Bruce, rh Malcolm Fallon, Michael series of other things that are not included in that 11%? Buckland, Mr Robert Farron, Tim Burley, Mr Aidan Featherstone, Lynne Nick Herbert: The right hon. Lady should start quoting Burns, Conor Field, Mr Mark people accurately. I made no such claim. Let me read Burns, Mr Simon Foster, rh Mr Don the second part of what the inspectorate said in the Burrowes, Mr David Fox,rhDrLiam same paragraph: Burstow, Paul Freeman, George “Several factors have combined to produce this ‘thin blue line’ Burt, Alistair Freer, Mike of which shift patterns, risk management, bureaucracy and Burt, Lorely Fullbrook, Lorraine specialisation are the most significant.” Byles, Dan Gale, Mr Roger Visibility and availability are too low, they can be improved Cable, rh Vince Garnier, Mr Edward and she is foolish to dismiss that report. Cairns, Alun Garnier, Mark 379 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 380

Gauke, Mr David Lewis, Dr Julian Sharma, Alok Vaizey, Mr Edward Gibb, Mr Nick Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Shelbrooke, Alec Vickers, Martin Gilbert, Stephen Lilley, rh Mr Peter Shepherd, Mr Richard Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Goldsmith, Zac Lloyd, Stephen Simmonds, Mark Walker, Mr Charles Goodwill, Mr Robert Lopresti, Jack Skidmore, Chris Walker, Mr Robin Gove, rh Michael Lord, Jonathan Smith, Miss Chloe Wallace, Mr Ben Graham, Richard Loughton, Tim Smith, Henry Walter, Mr Robert Grant, Mrs Helen Lumley, Karen Smith, Julian Ward, Mr David Gray, Mr James Macleod, Mary Soames, Nicholas Watkinson, Angela Grayling, rh Chris Main, Mrs Anne Spencer, Mr Mark Weatherley, Mike Green, Damian May, rh Mrs Theresa Stanley, rh Sir John Webb, Steve Greening, Justine McCartney, Jason Stevenson, John Wharton, James Griffiths, Andrew McCartney, Karl Stewart, Iain Wheeler, Heather Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne Stewart, Rory White, Chris Gyimah, Mr Sam McPartland, Stephen Streeter, Mr Gary Whittaker, Craig Halfon, Robert McVey, Esther Stride, Mel Whittingdale, Mr John Hames, Duncan Menzies, Mark Stuart, Mr Graham Willetts, rh Mr David Hammond, Stephen Mercer, Patrick Stunell, Andrew Williams, Mr Mark Hancock, Matthew Metcalfe, Stephen Swales, Ian Williams, Roger Hancock, Mr Mike Miller, Maria Swinson, Jo Williams, Stephen Hands, Greg Mills, Nigel Syms, Mr Robert Williamson, Gavin Harper, Mr Mark Moore, rh Michael Tapsell, Sir Peter Willott, Jenny Harrington, Richard Morgan, Nicky Thurso, John Wilson, Mr Rob Harris, Rebecca Morris, Anne Marie Timpson, Mr Edward Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hart, Simon Morris, James Tomlinson, Justin Wright, Simon Harvey, Nick Mosley, Stephen Tredinnick, David Young, rh Sir George Hayes, Mr John Mowat, David Truss, Elizabeth Zahawi, Nadhim Heald, Mr Oliver Mulholland, Greg Turner, Mr Andrew Tellers for the Ayes: Heath, Mr David Munt, Tessa Tyrie, Mr Andrew Mark Hunter and Heaton-Harris, Chris Murray, Sheryll Uppal, Paul Mr Shailesh Vara Hemming, John Murrison, Dr Andrew Henderson, Gordon Neill, Robert Hendry, Charles Newmark, Mr Brooks NOES Herbert, rh Nick Newton, Sarah Abbott, Ms Diane Clwyd, rh Ann Hinds, Damian Nokes, Caroline Abrahams, Debbie Coaker, Vernon Hoban, Mr Mark Norman, Jesse Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Coffey, Ann Hollingbery, George Nuttall, Mr David Alexander, Heidi Connarty, Michael Hollobone, Mr Philip O’Brien, Mr Stephen Ali, Rushanara Cooper, Rosie Holloway, Mr Adam Offord, Mr Matthew Anderson, Mr David Cooper, rh Yvette Hopkins, Kris Ollerenshaw, Eric Austin, Ian Corbyn, Jeremy Horwood, Martin Opperman, Guy Bailey, Mr Adrian Crausby, Mr David Howarth, Mr Gerald Ottaway, Richard Bain, Mr William Creagh, Mary Howell, John Parish, Neil Balls, rh Ed Creasy, Stella Huhne, rh Chris Patel, Priti Banks, Gordon Cryer, John Huppert, Dr Julian Pawsey, Mark Barron, rh Mr Kevin Cunningham, Alex Hurd, Mr Nick Penrose, John Bayley, Hugh Cunningham, Mr Jim Jackson, Mr Stewart Perry, Claire Beckett, rh Margaret Cunningham, Tony Javid, Sajid Phillips, Stephen Begg, Dame Anne Dakin, Nic Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pickles, rh Mr Eric Bell, Sir Stuart Danczuk, Simon Johnson, Gareth Pincher, Christopher Benn, rh Hilary Darling, rh Mr Alistair Johnson, Joseph Prisk, Mr Mark Benton, Mr Joe David, Mr Wayne Jones, Andrew Pritchard, Mark Berger, Luciana Davidson, Mr Ian Jones, Mr David Pugh, John Betts, Mr Clive Davies, Geraint Jones, Mr Marcus Randall, rh Mr John Blackman-Woods, Roberta Davies, Philip Kawczynski, Daniel Redwood, rh Mr John Blears, rh Hazel De Piero, Gloria Kelly, Chris Rees-Mogg, Jacob Blenkinsop, Tom Denham, rh Mr John Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Reevell, Simon Blomfield, Paul Dobbin, Jim Kirby, Simon Reid, Mr Alan Blunkett, rh Mr David Dobson, rh Frank Knight, rh Mr Greg Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Docherty, Thomas Laing, Mrs Eleanor Robertson, Hugh Brennan, Kevin Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Lamb, Norman Robertson, Mr Laurence Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Doran, Mr Frank Lancaster, Mark Rogerson, Dan Bryant, Chris Dowd, Jim Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rosindell, Andrew Buck, Ms Karen Doyle, Gemma Latham, Pauline Rudd, Amber Burden, Richard Dromey, Jack Laws, rh Mr David Ruffley, Mr David Burnham, rh Andy Durkan, Mark Leadsom, Andrea Russell, Bob Byrne, rh Mr Liam Eagle, Ms Angela Lee, Jessica Rutley, David Cairns, David Eagle, Maria Lee, Dr Phillip Sanders, Mr Adrian Campbell, Mr Alan Edwards, Jonathan Lefroy, Jeremy Sandys, Laura Campbell, Mr Ronnie Efford, Clive Leigh, Mr Edward Scott, Mr Lee Chapman, Mrs Jenny Elliott, Julie Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Selous, Andrew Clark, Katy Engel, Natascha Lewis, Brandon Shapps, rh Grant Clarke, rh Mr Tom Evans, Chris 381 Police9 FEBRUARY 2011 Police 382

Farrelly, Paul Kendall, Liz Munn, Meg Smith, rh Mr Andrew Field, rh Mr Frank Khan, rh Sadiq Murphy, rh Paul Smith, Angela Fitzpatrick, Jim Lammy, rh Mr David Murray, Ian Smith, Nick Flello, Robert Lavery, Ian Nandy, Lisa Smith, Owen Flint, rh Caroline Lazarowicz, Mark Nash, Pamela Spellar, rh Mr John Fovargue, Yvonne Leslie, Chris O’Donnell, Fiona Stringer, Graham Francis, Dr Hywel Lewis, Mr Ivan Onwurah, Chi Stuart, Ms Gisela Gapes, Mike Lloyd, Tony Owen, Albert Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Gardiner, Barry Long, Naomi Pearce, Teresa Tami, Mark Gilmore, Sheila Love, Mr Andrew Phillipson, Bridget Thomas, Mr Gareth Glindon, Mrs Mary Lucas, Ian Pound, Stephen Thornberry, Emily Goggins, rh Paul MacShane, rh Mr Denis Qureshi, Yasmin Timms, rh Stephen Green, Kate Mactaggart, Fiona Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Trickett, Jon Griffith, Nia Mahmood, Mr Khalid Reeves, Rachel Turner, Karl Gwynne, Andrew Mahmood, Shabana Reynolds, Emma Twigg, Stephen Hain, rh Mr Peter Mann, John Reynolds, Jonathan Umunna, Mr Chuka Hamilton, Mr David Marsden, Mr Gordon Riordan, Mrs Linda Vaz, Valerie Hamilton, Fabian McCabe, Steve Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Walley, Joan Hanson, rh Mr David McCann, Mr Michael Rotheram, Steve Watts, Mr Dave Harman, rh Ms Harriet McCarthy, Kerry Roy, Mr Frank Whitehead, Dr Alan Healey, rh John McClymont, Gregg Roy, Lindsay Wicks, rh Malcolm Hepburn, Mr Stephen McDonagh, Siobhain Ruane, Chris Williamson, Chris Hermon, Lady McDonnell, John Sarwar, Anas Winnick, Mr David Hillier, Meg McFadden, rh Mr Pat Seabeck, Alison Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hodge, rh Margaret McGovern, Alison Shannon, Jim Wood, Mike Hodgson, Mrs Sharon McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Sharma, Mr Virendra Woodcock, John Hoey, Kate McKechin, Ann Sheerman, Mr Barry Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Hood, Mr Jim McKinnell, Catherine Sheridan, Jim Wright, David Hunt, Tristram Meacher, rh Mr Michael Simpson, David Wright, Mr Iain Irranca-Davies, Huw Meale, Mr Alan Singh, Mr Marsha Tellers for the Noes: Jackson, Glenda Mearns, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Phil Wilson and Johnson, rh Alan Michael, rh Alun Slaughter, Mr Andy Mark Hendrick Johnson, Diana Miliband, rh David Jones, Graham Miller, Andrew Jones, Helen Mitchell, Austin Question accordingly agreed to. Jones, Susan Elan Morden, Jessica Resolved, Jowell, rh Tessa Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) That the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2011-12 Joyce, Eric Morris, Grahame M. (House of Commons Paper No. 771), which was laid before this Keeley, Barbara (Easington) House on 31 January, be approved . 383 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 384

Local Government Finance Mr Pickles: Last time we discussed this, the hon. Gentleman made some interesting suggestions about the level of the business rate with regard to the surplus. 5.8 pm I am happy to confirm to him what I said last time: that The Secretary of State for Communities and Local the process of distribution from the Government is Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I beg to move, based largely on the uniform business rate, and any surplus—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman needs to That the Local Government Finance Report (England) 2011-12 understand that the settlement is made within a defined (House of Commons Paper No. 748), which was laid before this House on 31 January, be approved. period and that business rate income goes up and down. The Treasury puts money in and takes money out according to the buoyancy of the business rate. The hon. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): With this we Gentleman is a distinguished Member of the House shall discuss the following motion: who is very familiar with these matters, and he should That the Limitation of Council Tax and Precepts (Alternative know these things. Notional Amounts) Report (England) 2011-12 (House of Commons Paper No. 774), which was laid before this House on 31 January, Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): He is right honourable, be approved. and he knows a lot more about it than you.

Mr Pickles: Over recent weeks, my coalition colleagues Mr Pickles: The hon. Gentleman is quite right to and I have had many conversations with local government. correct me; I beg the right hon. Gentleman’s pardon. We have spoken to individual authorities, the Local He is indeed a very distinguished gentleman, and of Government Association, London Councils and other course he knows a lot more than a lot of people in representatives, and let me say how much I respect the this House, including, I suspect, the hon. Gentleman. mature and responsible attitude that all have taken [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear!”] It is obvious from my throughout those discussions. They know that we are hon. Friends’ reaction that I do not need to put that to sailing in choppy economic waters, and that cutting a vote. Labour’s massive budget deficit is the responsible and Ian Austin rose— the right thing to do—and many have planned ahead. Only the most blinkered could have failed to see Mr Pickles: I will give way in a few moments. tough times coming. The House will recall that the right The phasing of the settlement will be challenging. hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) Councils can choose how they respond. Some have said in March 2010 that if Labour were to remain in chosen to wring their hands and say that it is all too power we would see spending cuts “deeper and tougher” hard, or to play politics with front-line services. Others than those of the 1980s—I suppose that that is one have chosen to step up and to protect vital local services, Labour pledge we are able to deliver—so let us not reducing every trace of waste, protecting the most vulnerable pretend that anyone thought that we could spend, spend, and reforming services to deliver better results for less. spend indefinitely. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con) rose— Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): Even if the Secretary of State sets the context in terms of a cuts Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab) rose— agenda for local government, why have this Government chosen to hit most harshly local authorities such as my Ian Austin: Will the Secretary of State give way? own, the fourth most deprived in the country, while not inflicting the same level of cuts on authorities that are Mr Pickles: The hon. Gentleman must pay more politically from a coalition background and socially in attention. When I say that I will give way in a few a much more advantaged position? moments, that is exactly what I mean, but there is a queue, and he is a little way behind. Hammersmith and Fulham, Kensington and Chelsea Mr Pickles: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I and Westminster councils are merging their back offices will come to that point in a moment. If I do not satisfy to save £35 million. West Norfolk is freezing council tax him, I will happily give way to him again. and car park charges, as well as councillors’ allowances. Thanks to Labour, the nation’s credit card is maxed Reading borough council has decided not to cut but to out. The longer we leave it before we start to pay it off, increase funding for voluntary groups. We have heard the worse it will be and the more we will have to pay. today that Ribble Valley borough council has also decided Unless we tackle Labour’s borrowing, interest—just the to protect voluntary groups and not to cut front-line interest—on its toxic legacy of debt will hit £70 billion a services. year by 2014-15. That is more than we currently raise I am grateful that many councils have brought the from council tax, business tax, stamp duty and inheritance same constructive attitude to discussions about the funding tax combined. settlement. They have helped us to put the finishing touches to a settlement that is sustainable, fair and Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and progressive. We have focused resources on the most Hillsborough) (Lab): The Secretary of State mentions vulnerable communities. We have given more importance the business rate. Could he tell the House how much, in to the levels of need within each council. We have billions, the Treasury contribution will be in the coming grouped councils in four bands. The most dependent on year over and above the yield from the business rate, Government funding are seeing proportionately lower which has to be redistributed to local government in falls in grant. The more deprived places will receive far any case? more funding per head than the better-off places. For 385 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 386 example, Hackney will receive £1,043 per head and those that we are presenting. I think that is probably Wokingham will receive just £125 per head. These changes true, but the challenge facing local government means have made the system fairer and more progressive than that just a couple of million quid would not make all ever. the difference. There are very challenging circumstances.

Hazel Blears: The Secretary of State knows that I Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Will the have raised the issue of business rates in this House on a Secretary of State give way? number of occasions. To pursue the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside Mr Pickles: In a moment—I need to respond to the and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), the Office for Budget hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) first. Responsibility has forecast that the business rate take will be £24.9 billion for 2010-11 and £26 billion for Let us consider a number of local authorities. Some 2011-12. The Secretary of State has distributed £3.5 billion have been talking about thousands of redundancies. I less in 2010-11 and will distribute £7 billion less in do not want to appear partisan, but Sheffield is talking 2011-12. Is he saying that the OBR forecasts are out of about 250. Sunderland, a Labour council, is not planning sync by £3.5 billion and £7 billion? Surely the rising percentage cuts in its Supporting People provision. trend in business rates means that there is more money Walsall is not planning to make an overall cut in its in the pot. If he distributed more money, we would not voluntary sector funding. It is possible to deal with the have to have the cuts that we face. situation. Mr Pickles: I am most grateful to the right hon. Lady. Joan Walley: Will the Secretary of State give way? What she needs to understand is that two figures have been suggested—one by the Office for Budget Responsibility. Mr Pickles: In a moment. Following those figures, we decided to move some things The hon. Member for Dudley North has to understand from ring-fenced grants into the general grant. That that these are local decisions. We have ensured that accounts for the difference between the two sizes. With there are sufficient funds to protect the vulnerable, but regard to the level of potential surplus, there is a possible ultimately local councils have to make local decisions. notional surplus in 2013 and 2014. As I explained to the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), what happens is that within Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Does the Secretary the total sum available for grant, if there is a surplus, all of State agree that we are hearing a confused argument is redistributed. However, as happened under the right from the Opposition, but that it seems to involve a hon. Lady’s Government and under previous Governments, spending commitment of about £7 billion? That money the amount in the revenue support grant is reduced on a would surely have to be made up through about 2p on compensatory basis, because the level of the total settlement income tax, would it not? is fixed. There is no difference; it is just a different way of calculating. Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend is of course perfectly right. The Opposition seem to think that it is magic money, Ian Austin rose— but it would actually come out of people’s pockets through business rates or income tax. The reason why Mr Pickles: How can I turn down the hon. Gentleman? we are in this position is that the guilty people on the He has been up and down like Tigger. Labour Benches allowed things to get out of hand. Ian Austin: I am very grateful to the Secretary of State. Nobody disputes that savings have to be made by Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) local authorities. [Interruption.] Well, nobody does. (Con): Will my right hon. Friend go into some detail for The Government cannot have it both ways. On the one the benefit of the House about his commitment to the hand, they say that we were planning cuts slightly vulnerable through the transition grant allocations? I smaller than those that they are imposing, and on the have had a cursory look at them, and they seem reasonably other they say that we were not planning any cuts at all. generous and seem to take account of the need to look I am not sure what their argument is. after some of the most vulnerable parts of the country. On the sorts of cuts that local authorities are making, is the Secretary of State aware that the axe hangs over Mr Pickles: We have done three significant things. Dudley’s benefits shop, which is helping people who First, we moved the relative needs threshold to 83% from have been made redundant during the recession and 73%, which makes a considerable difference and is far hard-pressed home owners who face the risk of repossession more than the Labour Government ever offered poorer to sort out their finances? It seems an utterly ludicrous communities. We then divided up authorities based on decision when it costs £300,000 a year to run and brings their level of funding, from the most dependent on £2 million into the local economy, of which £1.5 million grant to the least dependent, and ensured that the most is spent on supporting local businesses. In the light of dependent received smaller cuts. Then we managed to what he said about local authorities making inappropriate find an additional transitional amount to ensure that cuts that target the most vulnerable, will he join me in no authority loses more than 8.9%. I will have a further pleading with Dudley council not to close the benefits announcement to make about that. advice shop? Joan Walley: My constituents do not want the House Mr Pickles: I feel a certain degree of camaraderie and to make politics of what is happening. Everybody fraternal friendship with the hon. Gentleman, because understands the situation that we are in respect of the unlike his party’s Front Benchers, he has said that cuts as a whole, but in areas such as Stoke-on-Trent, Labour’s cuts would have been just slightly less than where we have deprivation and people out of work, we 387 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 388

[Joan Walley] Mr Pickles: Of course the settlement is very disappointing, but the Government would not do what have made representations to the Secretary of State and we are doing had we not found the nation’s finances in his Ministers to say that we want time: we want time to chaos and with a record budget deficit. The only reason plan how we can keep what is most important. This that we are doing this is that the right hon. Lady failed finance settlement gives us no encouragement whatever to control her party. that this is anything other than the Government blaming local councils for what is happening. Mr Betts rose—

Mr Pickles: The hon. Lady and her councils were Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD) rose— given quite a lot of time. The former Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West, made it Mr Pickles: I would give way to my right hon. Friend, clear that changes were going to be made, and a number but I feel like I have been persecuting the Chairman of of the most vulnerable areas were hit by the fact that it the Communities and Local Government Committee. was made clear that the working neighbourhoods fund Mr Betts: The Secretary of State said that this is a was going to end in March this year. It seems to me that matter for local decision, and that there is no need for a number of councils did not make any provision for any council to make cuts to front-line services. Can he that and blithely assumed that the money would continue, name one single council in the country that has so far despite the fact that the Labour Chancellor made it managed to reach a budget decision without any cuts to perfectly clear that it was ending. Ladies and gentlemen front-line services? on the Labour Benches who cheered his Budget announcement did not raise any objection at the time. Mr Pickles: Yes, I can—Reading and Ribble Valley have done so. We have a list, but the hon. Gentleman is Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) rose— ascribing words to me that I did not say. I said that before authorities touch front-line services, they should Mr Pickles: I will give way in a few moments, but I look at sharing back offices, chief executives and top shall make a little progress, if the Chairman of the offices, move back services and improve procurement. Communities and Local Government Committee will That is what I said. There is a very big difference—right forgive me. across the country—between councils that have attempted The changes make the system fairer and more progressive those things and those that have decided to cut deep than it has ever been. The second thing that we did is try into public services. to marry the need to tackle the deficit with the need to help councils to adapt, as I told my hon. Friend the Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con) rose— Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field). In December, I said that no council would face more Sir Alan Beith rose— than an 8.9% reduction in spending power and that we would provide a grant to cushion councils that would Mr Pickles: I will give way to my right hon. Friend, otherwise have had a sharper fall. Today, we are going but then in a few moments I will of course do so for my further by increasing the transition grant to councils hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey). from £85 million to £96 million next year, which means that the average reduction in spending power is just Sir Alan Beith: Does the Secretary of State accept 4.4% and that no council will see a reduction of more that it was almost impossible to introduce the required than 8.8%. degree of fairness to areas of low council tax income given the historical settlement that many local authorities, Let us look at one of the problems that we faced. such as Northumberland, have suffered over the years Concessionary bus travel is a classic example of how the and the financial crisis that faced the country? Do we previous Government did things—they made a grand not need to approach fairness again in a more fundamental promise without any clue about how it would be funded. review of local government finance? Administration of concessionary bus travel under Labour was a shambles. I do not think that councils should have Mr Pickles: My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct. to pay for the misjudgment of the Labour Government, I certainly hope that this year’s settlement and next so I am topping-up the formula grant by a further year’s are the last ones to be put together on the current £10 million next year to compensate shire districts. corrupt, useless and incomprehensible system. It is the Thirdly, we are committed to protecting local taxpayers. Government’s intention fundamentally to review the Council tax bills more than doubled under Labour, local government financial system, and I hope to bring while front-line services such as bin collections halved. proposals to the House later in the year. It is only right that we give hard-working families a helping hand. Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): The Secretary of State has praised some local authorities Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): Does the Secretary for planning ahead for cuts, but he did not mention of State agree with the sentiments of his colleague, the Manchester, which was planning to make cuts of Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local £50 million. However, because he singled out one of the Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew neediest cities in this country for one of the worst Stunell), who in writing to Liberal Democrat councillors settlements, the council is now having to save £110 million about the final settlement, says: next year and £170 million over two years. When a “This final settlement certainly does not solve all problems, council has to lop off £39 million from adult services nor does it add significantly more money into the pot. I know it and £45 million from children’s services, how can he say will still be very disappointing for many councillors.” that he is protecting the most vulnerable? 389 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 390

Mr Pickles: There does seem to be a big difference largely an academic exercise, because I believe that between how Sheffield and other large authorities are every local authority will freeze council tax in this going about this, and how Manchester is going about it. difficult period. The reduction purely in grant is some 15% over the The public will be helped in that process by increased period, but the council is choosing to cut 25%—above transparency. I am pleased to announce to the House and beyond the reduction in grant. But those figures that every council in the country has now agreed to only really stack up if we completely ignore the level of publish every amount over £500, so that their council council tax revenue. That is why we are able to say that tax payers can judge whether cuts in services or decisions no authority is receiving a reduction in their spending about those services are just. I say “every council in the power of more than 8.8%. That remains an absolute country”, but I mean “every council in the country with fact, on a measurement that those on the Labour Front the exception of Nottingham”. The Labour deputy Bench urged us to use. The Local Government Association leader in Nottingham says that the council has also suggested that measurement, and it is a very sensible “no intention of publishing the data unless it is forced to do so by way of doing things. law.” He says: Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): My constituency has “We have said that we will publish accounts over £500 if it some of the most deprived areas anywhere in the region, becomes a legal requirement to do so,” but for the last eight years we have received among the lowest local government settlements there have been. before adding, rather peculiarly: My local authority has been preparing for the even “We are happy for information to be” tougher times we face because of the economic crisis transparent. Well, information cannot be transparent that we were bequeathed. Why does the Secretary of unless it is published. How come every council tax State think that other areas of the country have not? payer in England can look on their council’s website and see how it is spending their money except for those Mr Pickles: It appears that there are two kinds of in Nottingham? Is there something peculiar about people authority. There are Conservative and Liberal Democrat in Nottingham that means that they cannot be trusted authorities that seem to be making a genuine attempt to with that information? protect the front line, as are a significant number of Labour authorities, but there are several that are simply Mr Blunkett: Will the Secretary of State give way? grandstanding. They have perhaps made one or two financial mistakes in the past and are seeking to hide Mr Pickles: I shall give way in a moment, once I have them by claiming that the financial settlement is the made this point. The right hon. Gentleman is a senior problem. Member of the House, but I would be grateful if he extended me the courtesy of allowing me to make a few Mark Pawsey: My right hon. Friend spoke about the points. need for councils to control executive salaries. Does he The deputy leader of Nottingham city council is a have some words of comfort for Rugby borough council, gentleman called Graham Chapman, which is obviously which has chosen to save £100,000 by not replacing its the same name as the late and long-missed member of chief executive and devolving the responsibilities to “Monty Python’s Flying Circus”. It seems to me that deputies and the elected leader of the council? the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) should get on the phone to that gentleman and tell him, Mr Pickles: Hammersmith and Fulham is obviously as his namesake’s mother did in “Life of Brian”, that he the apple of my eye in London, but the decision taken might be the deputy leader of Nottingham city council, by my hon. Friend’s council is a very sensible one. I am but he is a very naughty boy. If it is necessary for me to delighted that chief executives have taken a cut in use the powers that I have to force Nottingham, I will, salary, and I am even more delighted that the salaries but why should this process be held back by one obdurate advertised for chief executives have gone down considerably. council that simply wants to play politics with transparency? It is only right for hard-working families to be given a Hazel Blears: Let me take the Secretary of State back helping hand. We are providing an extra £650 million so to his assertion that no council will lose more than that local authorities can freeze council tax for a year 8.9% of its grant. Is he not completely ignoring the fact from April without local services losing out. We give that the poorest authorities get area-based grant? Some each council that freezes or reduces council tax the 11% of my council’s budget in Salford is ABG, because equivalent of a 2.5% increase instead. More than we are deprived and poor, and we need extra help. 130 councils have already said that they will take this Slashing the area-based grant means that our cuts next offer and more will follow as they finalise their budgets. year will be 15%, which is a massive amount in the first No council should think that it can get away with year. squeezing its residents. In the long term, local people should have the power Mr Pickles: I can bring better news to the right hon. to veto excessive council tax rises, but for the time being Lady, because the figure will not be 8.9%, but 8.8%, which the Government will use their capping powers to protect I hope she finds helpful. She arrives at those figures them. Today I have laid before the House a written only if she completely ignores the figures for council statement explaining the principles that we are using to tax, which are such that we can give her a guarantee define what excessive council tax means. An authority that her council’s spending power will not be reduced by will be liable to be capped if it couples an increase in more than 8.8%. Because I have enormous respect for council tax of more than 3.5% with a reduction in its her, I shall make just one further point. I thought about budget requirement of less than 7.5%. However, for this issue seriously, in a situation where money was most council tax payers, I very much expect this to be clearly being reduced, and I came to the conclusion that 391 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 392

[Mr Pickles] Today the Secretary of State has tried to pull a fast one, but he has not convinced our own Labour councillors, if I increased relative need, the best way to help authorities or even many Tory or Liberal Democrat councillors. In such as hers in taking the money down would be to put fact, I do not think that he has convinced anyone at all. it into the block grant. That is because the block grant Once again, he has come up with a whole host of has such a distributive effect. I accept that there is a reasons why this finance settlement—which, by common degree of swings and roundabouts involved, but her agreement, is the worst funding settlement for local authority came out of that process better than it might government in living memory—is not as bad as it otherwise have done. sounds, but he is not fooling anyone. Mr Blunkett: This issue of transparency is absolutely Over the past few months the Secretary of State and crucial. Is it not a fact that the 8.9% and the distribution his team have given us reasons why local authorities of grant took place after the area-based grant—and should not have to tackle difficult decisions about front-line therefore the specific funding for specific deprivation—had services in their communities. They have told us that already been taken out? there are other ways in which local authorities can make savings. We have heard that councils are sitting on piggy Mr Pickles: The right hon. Gentleman will forgive me banks with £10 billion-worth of reserves, yet 70% of for correcting him: it is not 8.9%; it is 8.8%. We have put that money is already reserved for specific projects, so some additional sums into the process—[HON.MEMBERS: the figure is nowhere near as high as £10 billion. “Answer!”] I am sorry that he perhaps did not hear the answer that I gave to the right hon. Member for Salford More to the point, the cuts to local councils go so and Eccles (Hazel Blears). I took a view, which I think deep and fall so heavily that three quarters of single-tier was correct, that his authority, Sheffield, would have and county councils have less in their reserves than the lost out more had we not put those sums into the block cuts to this year’s funding. Even if they took up the grant. He seems to forget that we have moved relative Secretary of State’s suggestion and spent all their reserves need to 83%. trying to mitigate the damage the Government’s cuts Thanks to the constructive approach of many councils, have caused, it would still not be enough. And when we have arrived at a funding settlement for the next two next year came councils would face an even worse years that is progressive, fair and sustainable. It is funding crisis—but this time with no reserves to call on. important to see this settlement in context. This coalition That, Madam Deputy Speaker, is Government are committed to an historic shift of power “the economics of the madhouse”. and influence. We are seeking to restore real responsibility and authority to councils. We are ending the regional Those are not my words; they come from a letter spatial strategies, comprehensive area assessments and from the Conservative leader of Derbyshire county local area agreements, and we have made a bonfire of council, Andrew Lewer, who chastised the Secretary of the three-letter acronyms. State for peddling “misleading” myths about council The general power of competence in the Localism reserves. We all know that the right hon. Gentleman Bill will give councils confidence to get on with the job. likes to talk about bins, but when even his own colleagues We have already ended grant ring-fencing, with a few tell him that he is talking rubbish, perhaps he should sit exceptions, so that councils can decide for themselves up and listen. If he will not listen to them, he should at how to spend their money. I am determined that we will least take note of his Front-Bench colleagues. However continue to push back the tide of bureaucracy, end once loyally the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and for all the micro-management from Whitehall, and and Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel give councils the space to show the ingenuity, ambition Grove (Andrew Stunell) nods his head in agreement this and leadership that local people expect. The settlement afternoon, we know what he really thinks from a private shows that this coalition Government will not shy away letter he sent to Liberal Democrat councillors. He freely from the tough decisions needed to tackle Labour’s admits that in some cases the figures quoted by the public sector deficit, and we will continue to do everything Department for Communities and Local Government possible to support local councils as they protect and were rejected as inaccurate. As I mentioned earlier, improve front-line services over the years to come. another quote from the letter reveals the Under-Secretary’s disappointment that so little has been put into the pot, 5.42 pm despite the representations of his Liberal Democrat colleagues. Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): We have heard it all this afternoon. We have heard every possible excuse Another area Ministers have looked at is how to plug and cop-out, but we have not heard a single word of the gap by dealing with executive pay. Councils were apology to the thousands of councillors up and down told that if they could not use their reserves, they could the country who give up their evenings and weekends, cut executive pay. If they did that, they were told, it and much else besides, to make their community a would be enough to protect jobs and services. I have better place to live and who are now being forced to made it clear time and time again that local councils implement the Secretary of State’s cuts. We have heard have a duty to find the best deal for council tax payers—and no apology for the fact that this Government have that includes ensuring that council executives are not chosen to impose huge front-loaded cuts on local councils paid over the odds and cutting down the size of the length and breadth of the country. Those cuts will management teams at the top of councils. In fact, we be deeper and faster than those made by almost any have gone further than the Secretary of State’s proposals other Whitehall Department, and they will fall hardest on pay and transparency in the Localism Bill, and I on the poorest places. They will cost jobs and threaten urge him again to include consultants and contractors vital front-line services. hired by local authorities when pay details are published. 393 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 394

The suggestion, however, that simply trimming executive Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. salaries by a few thousand pounds here and there is The hon. Gentleman must resume his seat. enough to plug a funding gap of £6.5 billion is just fanciful. If every chief executive of every local authority Chris Heaton-Harris: Even if it is over three years, it took an immediate 50% pay cut, it would yield less than still amounts to 7% or 8% of the total savings required. 0.5% of the savings that need to be found. Even if the Does the right hon. Lady regard that as insubstantial? entire senior management team of every council in England reduced salaries by 25% overnight, 97% of the Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman cuts would still need to be made. must resume his seat.

Charlie Elphicke: Does the right hon. Lady agree that Chris Heaton-Harris: I am sorry, Madam Deputy it is not simply a question of excessive pay, but of Speaker. excessive pay-offs? Nottingham council was mentioned, and a brief piece of research shows that Sallyanne Madam Deputy Speaker: I know that the hon. Gentleman Johnson received a £250,000 pay-off, Michael Frater heard me earlier; he clearly saw me. Interventions must £230,000, Adrienne Roberts £500,000, and Tim Render be short. £200,000—all in recent times. Will she condemn the administration of Nottingham council for wasting that Caroline Flint: I do not know how to follow the hon. money? Gentleman’s intervention, because it is a good example of the grandstanding that has been going on. I should Caroline Flint: We can all trade examples, so let me love the hon. Gentleman to send me the figures from provide the hon. Gentleman with one from Hammersmith Hampshire county council. Seven million pounds a and Fulham council—one of the Secretary of State’s year? I should very much like to see those figures, favourites. Is it acceptable to hire for £1,000 a day a because I am not sure that they relate only to senior consultant who has already been retired, on a £50,000-a-year executive pay. pension, on grounds of ill health from another council? I have made it clear that I am not standing up for Value for money and accountability for senior pay those who pay over the odds. [Interruption.] Ihave are important, which is why we supported those elements made that very clear, as the Minister for Housing and in the Localism Bill—but we are going further than the Local Government will see if he consults Hansard. Government suggested, and we hope to gain support What I am saying is that it is a distraction to suggest for that. However, the reality is that for all the grandstanding that the sort of cuts in executive pay that I have described, on this issue, it does not make a dent in the amount that whether they involve 50% of chief executives or 25% of councils have to find to deal with the front-loaded cuts the senior management team, can make a significant that the Government have chosen to impose on them. dent in the savings that councils are having to find. We are often told that if councils cannot use their Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): reserves and if cuts in executive pay are not enough, My right hon. Friend mentioned the letter sent by the they can make their savings by sharing services or Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local merging back-room functions. Let us leave aside the Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew fact that more than 200 councils are already sharing Stunell) to Lib Dem councillors on Stockport council; services or facilities, or are planning to do that. If she will be aware that his postage bill will go down creative service redesign could protect services and stop quickly, as Lib Dems are leaving the Lib Dem group unnecessary job losses we would support it, as would because they know the truth about this settlement. our local Labour colleagues, but by front-loading the Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Secretary of cuts as the Secretary of State has chosen to do, the State is talking nonsense when he speaks about giving Government have given councils no choice other than power to local authorities and being fair, because local to find immediate savings, which will actually mean cuts democracy is, in fact, taking a much bigger cut than his in services and jobs. own central Government Department? We have heard a great deal today about Westminster, Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend has made a very good Kensington and Chelsea, and Hammersmith and Fulham, point about the unfairness of the cuts. The Government but as ever, the devil is in the detail. When we go beyond are passporting the blame on to local councils, and that the headlines, we find that although those councils will is not fair. My hon. Friend, like other Labour Members, lose more than £50 million in funding this year, savings has long experience of local government that can inform for this year amount to only £5 million. We can only our debate. We are in touch with local government, conclude either that the Secretary of State is so detached which is one of the big differences between us and those from the real world that he does not understand that, or on the Government Benches. that this is a deliberate tactical attempt to distract attention from the problems created by the Tory-led Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): The right Government. In either event, councils and the communities hon. Lady suggests that cuts in executive pay constitute that they serve deserve better. a mere pinprick in the savings required. Yet according to a press release from Hampshire county council that I James Morris: Is not one of the remarkable aspects received yesterday, the council expects to save some of the settlement the fact that, in these difficult times, £7 million in executive pay in the current year. That is the Supporting People grant has been relatively protected just shy of 20%—[Interruption.] Opposition Members by the Secretary of State? He has done precisely what I suggest, in sedentary interventions, that £7 million in a think the right hon. Lady wants to do, which is to single year may be an unlikely figure, and that may be ensure the protection of the most vulnerable. Should so, but even if it is over three years—[Interruption.] not the right hon. Lady be celebrating that? 395 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 396

Caroline Flint: I am not sure that there is anything to look set to close by the end of this year, and despite all celebrate. Whether we are talking about the Supporting the Secretary of State’s exhortations, because of the People grant or Sure Start, one thing is certain: neither cuts he has imposed half a million British home owners has not been ring-fenced, and therein lies danger. have had their weekly bin collections scrapped. As for Manchester city council, for instance, faces a 35% cut in housing, his cuts in the housing budget mean that, for its Supporting People grant. all the current Government’s criticism of the last Government’s record, once the homes that Labour started Mr Pickles: I am sure that the right hon. Lady would building are completed no new social homes at all will not want to put an incorrect statement on the record. be built for the duration of this Parliament. Will she confirm that the Supporting People fund was When 70p out of every pound councils spend goes on not ring-fenced under the Labour Government? staff, it is madness to believe that people will not lose their jobs. The only advice we have from the Government Caroline Flint: Unlike the Secretary of State’s hon. comes from their big society guru, Lord Wei, who this Friends, we put money into the Supporting People grant week told council workers to cut their hours and their to support local initiatives. Now councils face cuts in pay and spend more time volunteering. That will be of their Supporting People funding, and have no alternatives little comfort to the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands to the decisions that they are having to make. of people who lose their jobs this year. According to Unison, 100,000 people in council, health, police, fire Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): I will talk and education services have already been warned their about the myths of Hammersmith and Fulham later if I jobs are at risk. The GMB has kept a running tally of have the opportunity, but for now may I correct my the number of workers who have been told their jobs right hon. Friend by pointing out that £2.9 million is the are under threat, and, as of last week, it suggests more saving for the three boroughs next year—£500,000 from than 155,000 posts are at risk. Hammersmith and Fulham—out of £27 million in total savings? The sum the Secretary of State said the three Let us talk about the organisation that has actually councils would save when he launched the initiative last conducted some research in this area: the Local Government October was £100 million. That is the sort of voodoo Association. It believes that 140,000 council workers economics we are dealing with here. will lose their jobs this year. I saw the Minister for Housing and Local Government on TV only last night attempting to argue otherwise, but the LGA’s figures Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend always enlightens us are based on evidence—on research covering 202 councils as to the true nature of what is happening in Hammersmith employing 1.85 million people. The Minister’s arguments and Fulham. Only in the last week we have heard about are based on the hope that, “If we say something a building that houses some 30 charities, from which enough times, eventually people will start to believe us.” many of the charities are being evicted. I heard only the other day that Hammersmith and Fulham council is so in touch with the big society that refugees from Afghanistan Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): Why is Liberal who were seeking support were directed to an Afghan Democrat-controlled Sheffield city council making only society that happened to be an Afghan hound society. 250 people redundant, yet the figures for Labour-controlled That shows how in touch those people are with the Manchester city council and Liverpool city council are concerns of their residents, and the extent of their 2,000 and 1,500 respectively? Could it be that the Labour knowledge of the charitable and voluntary sector. councils are not interested in making proper savings, whereas the Liberal Democrat and Tory councils are? Mr Betts: In the last Parliament the Communities and Local Government Committee conducted a report Caroline Flint: Well, so far as Sheffield is concerned, on Supporting People. It accepted the removal of the part of the problem is that the Liberal Democrats are ring fence, but said that spending on Supporting People running scared. They have deferred the decisions because should be monitored. Perhaps as a result of that, the they think they can pull the wool over the eyes of the day after the Secretary of State appeared before the people of Sheffield, but I have to say to the hon. Select Committee in December, Westminster city council Gentleman that that is not going to work. announced a £1 million cut in its Supporting People I want to say something about back-room staff in services. local government. Efficient administration: yes, of course we need that, but every organisation needs people in Caroline Flint: I always bow to the experience and the back-room as well—even the Secretary of State’s knowledge of my hon. Friend. This will all come to Department. It is a pretence to believe that administrative light in the weeks and months ahead as the budgets are jobs are not necessary. Worst of all is the unfairness. set, and I think we will see that no Members on the The communities who rely the most on the services that Government Benches will stand up for Supporting People. their council provides will be hardest hit. Every time the We know that the losses on the ground are affecting Government hit the airwaves we are told how progressive people, and the services they have relied on for so long. this settlement is—but I am afraid that they do not As all the excuses have fallen away, and as the reality know the meaning of the word. What is fair about the of the pace and depth of the Government’s cuts hits most deprived communities facing cuts four times as home, so Ministers’ accusations and attacks on local deep as those in the most prosperous areas? What is government have become more desperate and outlandish. progressive about a finance settlement in which every The real impact of these cuts is becoming clearer day by resident in Hackney loses £180, while people in the day. Some 450 libraries around the country are under Prime Minister’s constituency lose only a fiver? Even threat of closure, including four in the Prime Minister’s Liberal Democrat and Conservative councillors know constituency, 250 Sure Start centres serving 60,000 families that that is neither fair nor progressive. 397 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 398

The Tory leader of Blackpool council, Peter Callow, Flush with cash from their chums in the City, this told the BBC that this Government had “let down Government may be laughing all the way to the bank, poorer areas”. Perhaps that is why David Faulkner, the but local councils and the communities they serve are Liberal Democrat leader of Newcastle council—the crying out for more help and more time. In every part of Liberal Democrats’ flagship council in the north-east— the country and in all communities, people are rallying agreed that the Secretary of State is together, standing side by side, shoulder to shoulder, “the worst Secretary of State we have had”. against this Government’s reckless cuts. They are the Perhaps that is why, in a private e-mail sent to Liberal real big society, and they are telling this Government Democrat councillors from the Local Government that they are going too far, too fast. The teaching Association just last week, we learnt that—[Interruption.] assistants, social workers and street cleaners marching I know that the Secretary of State does not want to for their jobs: they are telling this Government that they listen to this. We learnt that are going too far, too fast. The pensioners occupying “concerns about the weakness of the Secretary of State have been their local libraries and clearing the shelves of books: raised within all three of the main political groups at the LGA they are telling this Government that they are going too and the message has been heard loud and clear by leading figures far, too fast. The families going door to door with in the Government. The situation has been likened to having a petitions to save their local Sure Start centre: they are republican in charge of the monarchy.” telling this Government that they are going too far, too As for the big society, with every day that passes it fast. looks more and more like a big sham. We have heard The Government are not listening but we are, and from VolunteeringEngland, which accused the Government that is why, today, Labour will vote against a local of undermining charities. Last week Liverpool City government settlement that reflects none of the concerns council had to pull out of the big society pilot because it of councillors and communities about going too far, saw how ridiculous it was for the Government to laud too fast. I urge all Members to stand up for their the virtues of the voluntary sector on the one hand, communities and the services they hold dear, and join while pulling the rug from underneath it on the other. us in the Lobby tonight. Just this Monday, Dame Elisabeth Hoodless of Community Service Volunteers warned that the “draconian” cuts to Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Ihaveto local government were “destroying volunteering”. But announce the results of the Divisions deferred from as the Prime Minister said earlier this afternoon, what previous days. In the Division on the question relating does she know? She is only the mother of the big society, to the financial stabilisation mechanism, the Ayes were the executive director of Britain’s largest volunteering 297 and the Noes were 45, so the Ayes have it. On the charity. question relating to police, the Ayes were 501 and the Up and down the country, as a direct result of the Noes were 18, so the Ayes have it. On the question choices of this Government, councils are being forced relating to taxation of the financial sector, the Ayes to cut back funding to community groups and voluntary were 295 and the Noes were 223, so the Ayes have it. organisations. If they cannot pick up the reins, who will [The Division lists are published at the end of today’s take responsibility for providing the services that this debates.] Government have dismantled? However, Ministers’ most insidious claim is that councils Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): On a point of order, that have built up good services to help poor, elderly or Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the vulnerable people will deliberately cut those services, House, but this is on a matter highly relevant to this rather than bureaucracy, in order to cause suffering for debate. At Prime Minister’s questions earlier today, the political gain. That is an outrageous slur, and it is Prime Minister gave an inaccurate picture about Sure beneath the dignity of Ministers to level the claim. It is Start funding to this House. He said: a sure sign of how empty the Government’s arguments “On Sure Start, the budget is going from £2.212 million to are that they drag out that myth in order to slander the £2.297 million. That budget is going up. That is what is happening.” reputations of decent councillors. There are two problems with that statement. First, The blame for all this lies solely and squarely with those figures do not refer to the Sure Start budget; they this Tory-led Government, because the biggest myth of refer to the early intervention grant, which pays for all is that there is no alternative. Madam Deputy Speaker, 21 separate programmes in addition to Sure Start. there is an alternative. We do not deny that there is a Secondly, the budget is not going up. The Prime Minister’s deficit and that it needs tackling, but the Government’s figures compared 2011-12 with 2012-13. If he had compared decision to eliminate the deficit over this Parliament is a this year’s budget of £2,483 million with that in 2012-13, choice, not a necessity. Labour’s plan was to halve the he would have found that there is a cash cut of £186 million. deficit over four years. That would have meant local government cuts, but not cuts as deep as this. The Councils are making some very difficult decisions on Government’s decision to front-load the cuts, so that these matters right now, and it is only fair to them to put the heaviest reductions fall in the first year, is a choice, the correct figures on the record and in the public not a necessity. We would have spread the cuts more domain. I wonder whether you might ask the Prime evenly over four years, giving councils time to plan Minister to set the record straight, Madam Deputy where savings could be found. The Government’s decision Speaker. to skew the funding system so that the poorest councils are hardest hit is a choice, not a necessity. We would Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): That is have shared the cuts much more fairly, ensuring that not a point of order for the Chair. The right hon. those with the broadest shoulders bore the greatest Gentleman is very experienced, and I am sure that he burden. The Government have made their choice, and will find other ways to pursue those particular points they must take responsibility for the consequences. about statements that have been made in this House. He 399 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 400

[Madam Deputy Speaker] whether my constituents are losing out because of the way in which the figures have been calculated. I hope is right to say that this is a very important debate on the that the Minister can assure me that if there is any question of local government funding. Perhaps other doubt about that he will enter into further dialogue hon. Members might wish to reflect on what he has with the council so that the effects can be addressed as said, but we will move on and continue that debate. soon as possible.

6.7 pm 6.12 pm Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): I shall keep Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): The my comments relatively brief, Madam Deputy Speaker. Secretary of State has obviously listened to many I wish to start by thanking the Under-Secretary of State representations in the past few weeks, but the question for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend is whether he has actually heard what people have been the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) saying and whether he is prepared to act. Today, we for receiving a pre-Christmas delegation from Isle of have found out that, presumably after prostrating himself Wight council. During the meeting, the council accepted on the floor before the Chancellor, he has come away that it must play its part in tackling the massive structural with a further £10 million. deficit left by the Labour party. It also accepted the vast majority of the figures and calculations in the draft Mr Pickles: No, it is entirely from the Department’s local government settlement. The council queried only budget. one point in it with him. The argument was solely about the baseline figure used for local transport and concessionary Mr Betts: Local authorities are going to get a further fares. The council contends that a miscalculation has £10 million on top of the settlement they were previously denied it additional grant of almost £900,000, which promised. Even if that £10 million was given to one obviously has an effect on the council’s overall spending authority, such as Salford, instead of its reduction in power. The Government say that in 2011-12 Isle of total spend being cut from 8.9% to 8.8%, there would Wight council will have £6 million less to spend than in hardly be dancing in the streets. Authorities such as the current year, whereas the council suggests a figure of mine in Sheffield are getting nothing extra out of that £7.5 million. small amount of additional money: they will still get a The Government’s spending power figure covers all cut of more than 8%. the council’s income available for it to spend. That is clearly the best way of presenting the figures: looking at Mr Pickles: The figure is £10 million extra to district the picture as a whole, rather than taking any single authorities. That is why the cut for authorities is no figure in isolation. The council has given me details of longer 8.9% but 8.8%. Extra money has gone in—not a the notional figure, the effect of damping, schedule D, lot, but we have been able to drop the cut a little. the transfer of functions between authorities and the baseline figure that it believes is wrong. Mr Betts: The Secretary of State’s words are very I do not, however, intend to go over all that again. apposite—it is not a lot of money, but there are an Doubtless the council’s view on all those points was put awful lot of reductions up and down the country that very eloquently during its meeting with the Minister. local government is having to deal with. Figures can be presented in many ways, and they certainly My first point, which I made in a Westminster Hall have been, both on the island and nationally, but I am debate but still have not received an adequate response, speaking today because I see the very real distress is that the overall cuts in Government expenditure over caused to my constituents at proposals that will affect the four-year period are 19%, whereas the cuts for local services they value and the fabric of our life on the government are 26%. Why is local government experiencing island. Among other things, island communities might higher cuts than the overall average cuts to Government lose libraries and public lavatories unless, in some cases, spending? We know that the services delivered by local those services are taken over by town and parish councils, government are important to our constituents. Some of thus putting up the local precept—the town and parish those services go to those in most need—social services rates. The changes should have been made separately provision for aids and adaptations and for looked-after from the Budget, preferably in the period between last children. Some of them concern quality of life—for June and December. After all, we won the election in example, libraries, parks, playing fields and sports centres— May and there was time to do it then rather than and others are essential, such as refuse collection, street making these changes in a last-minute rush. However, repairs and street lighting. we are where we are, as they say. Most local authorities are doing all they can to I understand that the arguments about the draft protect their social services provision and to protect settlement report have been considered and that decisions looked-after children and children with particular have been made, but the council says that the baseline disadvantages, so it should come as no surprise that figure that it says has been miscalculated will affect the even when they have looked at back-room services and settlement for future years. We all know that the complete sharing services with other authorities, councils throughout financial mess the coalition Government inherited from the country of all political persuasions are cutting the Labour party is the real problem and that neither services such as libraries and bus services and changing councils nor the Government can go on as they have in their methods of refuse collection. the past, but I urge the Minister to consider the technical arguments that Isle of Wight council put to him. He Henry Smith: Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge and the Secretary of State should consider whether the billions of pounds added to social care budgets in those arguments have merit and, most importantly, the comprehensive spending review? 401 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 402

Mr Betts: There were ear-marked allocations, including the big society is the front-end loading of the cuts, some transferred money from NHS funding, but even which is making it impossible for us to deal with them so local authorities are facing severe reductions. Westminster, in a planned and organised way.” a flagship Conservative authority, is cutting £1 million That is a Conservative authority, and the Local from its Supporting People budget. Hammersmith and Government Association is saying exactly the same. Fulham was named for cutting eight community centres, The front-end loading is forcing the cuts up front, I understand. Gloucester and Somerset councils are which makes it harder to reorganise and to provide cutting libraries and closing them. Those are cuts in services in a different way. It means more money being front-line services. Even authorities that are sharing spent on compulsory redundancies. It is a major problem, services and cutting management costs still have to cut and nobody will explain why the cuts must be front-end front-line services. Why has local government been singled loaded. Why? out for bigger cuts than the rest of central Government combined? Charlie Elphicke rose—

Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): Does the Mr Betts: Is an answer coming? hon. Gentleman acknowledge that local authorities across the country, such as my own in Great Yarmouth—we Charlie Elphicke: Do not many local authorities have are a deprived area that has been hit with cuts—have substantial reserves? The reason for having reserves is said that they can deal with the changes without affecting to provide a cushion. Manchester, I believe, is cutting front-line services? They are looking to do that through 2,000 staff, yet it is sitting on £100 million of reserves. back-office savings and cross-working with other authorities. How can that be justified?

Mr Betts: All I can say is that the hon. Gentleman’s Mr Betts: I cannot identify the reserves of each authority must have had a much more favourable settlement authority, but the total figures provided by the Government than many others that are making those cuts. That is include items such as school reserves— not happening on a party political basis. Conservative and Lib Dem authorities are making cuts as well. I am Mr Pickles: No. more than happy to receive a list from the Secretary of State of all the authorities that are managing the process without any cuts in front-line services. It will not include Mr Betts: —over which authorities do not have discretion. many Conservative and Lib Dem authorities, which are The figures include the housing revenue account and presumably making cuts not to spite the Government, working capital that is needed to manage the cash flow but because of the position that they have been put in of an authority, and they probably include identified by the Government. sums in the authority’s capital accounts for major projects. All those things tend to get lumped together. The Secretary of State says that is not true. If he produced a list of Brandon Lewis rose— figures for each local authority that extracts all those sums, that would be very interesting to see. I look Mr Betts: I am sorry, but I must make progress. Other forward to a copy of that being placed in the Library. Members want to speak in the debate. My next point is one made by the Local Government Paul Goggins: My hon. Friend might like to comment Association on a cross-party basis. Why are the cuts on the claim made by the hon. Member for Dover front-end loaded? Will someone explain? Even if the (Charlie Elphicke), because Manchester city council Government feel that they have to make the cuts over will have to spend £60 million of its reserves simply the four-year period, why are they front-end loaded? making people redundant as a result of the cuts.

Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con) rose— Mr Betts: The Secretary of State has had an exchange of letters with the Conservative chair of the Local Mr Betts: There is an answer coming. Government Association, who has complained bitterly that if more than £200 million is required nationally in Simon Kirby: Does the hon. Gentleman think it is capitalisation to pay for redundancy costs, that will right that this country is paying £120 million per day to result in a further cut in the grant to pay for it. service the interest on the debt that his Government I will move on to the spread of the cuts. It is undoubtedly ran up? true that local authorities in the most deprived areas are getting the biggest cuts. Government Members will say Mr Betts: That is not the intervention that I was that those authorities have the biggest grants, which by expecting. I thought that as those on the Front Bench and large is true, but that is because they have the could not help me, the Back Benchers would. biggest needs and the most deprivation. The reality is Why are the cuts front-end loaded? Why do nearly that my local authority is getting more than an 8% reduction half the cuts come in the first year? I was in Croydon in its spending powers and Dorset county council is council on a Select Committee visit on Tuesday. Croydon getting an increase. That is simply not fair. council is a flagship Tory authority. It has participated in Total Place, it has community budgeting, it is part of Brandon Lewis: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the big society project and it is enthusiastic about it. The leader of the council sat across the table and said to Mr Betts: I have already given way to the hon. me, “The thing that is really affecting us and may stop Gentleman and think that that is reasonably fair. The us delivering on projects like community budgeting and spread of the cuts is simply not fair. I accept that the 403 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 404

[Mr Betts] On the question of putting salaries above £58,000 into the public domain, the point made by my right Government have provided an element of transitional hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline grant to help those authorities with most deprivation, Flint) ought to be pursued. If the Secretary of State is but they simply have not gone far enough to protect right, and he encourages local authorities to put more those with the most needs and the most deprivation. and more services out to the private sector, to the That is why those areas now face the biggest cuts in voluntary sector and to social enterprise, he will find services. that fewer people on those salaries are employed in the local authority sector. Somebody with responsibility for Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): Does the hon. a service might be “TUPE’d” outwith that service to the Gentleman think that it is right that only months before private sector or to a social enterprise, in which case his announcing these job loses, Manchester city council transparency will therefore decline. So, when services spent £150,000 on a statue, which could have funded are contracted out, could the requirement for transparency nine junior posts for a year? about salaries of more than £58,000 be transferred as Mr Betts: Manchester city council has to make its well, and applied to contractors across the piece? That own local decisions, and I am not here to support or would be a way forward for the Secretary of State, and defend every action of every local authority. I thought his Cabinet colleagues might like to look at it as a good that leaving such matters to local councils was what example of transparency in practice. localism was all about. We must not put them in the The figures on Sheffield are misleading. The figures position where they have to make cuts in front-line that have been quoted are for those redundancies that services, as Somerset, Gloucester and other authorities have been announced so far. Many vacancies in Sheffield are having to do. are being held unfilled, and they are going to affect I support what the Government are doing on ring- services. We know of several hundred posts that will not fencing. I believe, as I have been saying for many years, be filled by one means or other, and we also suspect that that abolishing ring-fencing as far as possible is the the Lib-Dem administration there is trying to delay and right thing to do so that local authorities have more avoid decisions, waiting to pass them on to the new discretion in how they spend the money available to Labour administration that will take office in May. The them. On the question of business rates, I followed up budget has not yet been finalised, however, so no one with the LGA the issues I raised with the Minister for can quote a figure of 250. Several hundred jobs are Housing and Local Government in my Westminster likely to be lost as a result of the budget—many times Hall debate. It has received legal advice on the matter the figure given today. from Bevan Brittan solicitors, which states that in this There are real problems with the settlement, but the instance the Secretary of State has not set the distributable fundamental question that comes across from local amount as a sum equal to the difference, but has chosen councils and the Local Government Association is, to budget for a surplus and set the distributable amount “Why are the cuts front-loaded?” Can the Government some £100 million lower at £19,000 million. That is please provide an explanation? That fundamental problem simply unlawful, and that is the legal opinion the LGA is causing chaos in local authorities and massive cuts to has received—[Interruption.] I am raising the issue services throughout the country. with the Secretary of State and giving the advice that the LGA has given me. If it is inaccurate, will he publish a precise assessment on whether he intends to budget 6.26 pm for a surplus on the business rates and whether he believes to do so is lawful so that Members have the full Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): We meet today and proper picture? to review the local government settlement, and no doubt councils throughout the country are looking at their Mr Pickles: The hon. Gentleman occupies a senior budgets, examining how much they are going to spend position and so should know that all business rates have and making local decisions. We have at last started to to be redistributed to councils by law. It is not possible hear from Opposition Front Benchers the recognition to do what he is suggesting we are doing, because that reductions in public expenditure would have nothing can be done with a surplus other than giving it happened regardless of which party won the last general back to local authorities. He does not seem to appreciate election. It has been a long time coming. We have been that total public expenditure is within an envelope, but waiting for that view to creep forward, and slowly but revenues from business rates go up and down, so councils surely the recognition is dawning that reductions would have are compensated by central Government. had to be made regardless of who won the election. Mr Betts: I understand that revenues from business We have inherited a legacy: local government council rates go up and down, so when they go up more should tax has doubled, but services have not really improved be distributed to local authorities as a result. [Interruption.] at all. Under the Labour Government, there was a Rather than engaging in further debate on this, I am transfer of responsibility to local government but a happy to pass on to the Secretary of State the legal transfer of funding to the council tax, and that forced advice that the LGA has given me and ask him, if he local people to pay for those services, which were not believes that it is wrong, to issue a detailed correction. really delivered. That seems an appropriate way to proceed. Authorities were also inspected and monitored to the Mr Pickles: Send me the letter. absolute maximum, and part and parcel of the settlement before us is a reduction in that monitoring and inspection, Mr Betts: I will of course send the letter to the all of which can be translated directly into savings that Secretary of State, and I look forward to his response. local authorities can make. 405 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 406

Charlie Elphicke: Does my hon. Friend agree that, Bob Blackman: Indeed; my hon. Friend makes a fair extraordinarily, all that monitoring and inspection never point. We have heard the starting point of the apology seemed to include the over-inflated salaries of chief and a little about what Labour would have done, but we executives or the ridiculous pay-offs that occurred? do not know the detail. If the result of the election had been somewhat different, we would probably be arguing Bob Blackman: I thank my hon. Friend for that about money around the margins as regards the expenditure intervention, which refers to another thing that took reductions. place under the Labour Government. In all those I ask Front Benchers to consider the area cost adjustment. organisations, pay is determined from the top, so as That is quite a serious issue for London and areas of chief executive pay has rocketed, so has senior pay, deprivation, where higher costs are incurred. It appears while the large numbers of people who work for local that the area cost adjustment has not been dealt with authorities and do a brilliant job are paid relatively reasonably in this settlement, and that needs to be small amounts of money. There is no doubt, however, looked at again. There are parts of the country where that the pay of middle management and senior management higher costs apply, and that is particularly true in London. exploded, and I applaud the Secretary of State’s decision Capitalisation is just putting off paying today until to publish the figures so that the public can see what tomorrow and doing it on a deferred basis. It means type of jobs are involved. having to borrow or spend money on capital that could We also saw an explosion in the creation of non-jobs, otherwise be employed. It is a wasted opportunity and each of which required administrative support, departments the wrong way of dealing with redundancies. If councils and offices, all of which are costs to the taxpayer, wish to make redundancies, they should recognise that specifically the council tax payer. We had a multitude of they will make savings on their revenue budget and they different grant regimes and ring-fencing so that if local should use that budget to pay for the costs of those authorities wanted to take decisions, they could not. I redundancies, not defer them through the capital therefore welcome the merger of the different grant programmes. regimes and the removal of ring-fencing, which allows I applaud this Government for introducing the pupil for local decision making at the right sort of level. premium. However, it will be equally applied across the What Labour did was not all bad. The decision to tell country, and there are higher costs in London. Surely it local authorities what level of funding they were getting must be right that in high-cost areas we increase the for three years was a good thing because it allowed premium per pupil to recognise that fact. I ask Front them to plan ahead. I hope that in future times the Benchers to consider that. settlement from the Front Bench will be offered not just We need to look at the data that are used to formulate for three years but for four or five years so that there is the grant settlements. Certainly in London, those data certainty for local government in planning ahead. are hopelessly out of date and inaccurate and therefore money is transferred in an unfair way. That has been Henry Smith: Does my hon. Friend think that as well true for many years, and I hope that we can put it right. as certainty in terms of the amounts received by local I will talk about two local authorities that I know authorities, it is also important that there is transparency well. The first is the London borough of Harrow, which as regards the formula for the way that those settlements has at last received a reasonable settlement from central are decided? Government. It is the third best in London and the 23rd best in the country. The Labour council that came Bob Blackman: My hon. Friend anticipates a matter in after the election inherited a transformation programme that I was going to come to later. The outdated Barnett that reduces costs and safeguards services. We await its formula, which has transferred money to all parts of budget decisions. It should be satisfied with the settlement, the country with no transparency whatsoever, must go after years of poor settlements from a Labour Government. and be replaced with a formula that delivers money on a In London, 27 of the 32 boroughs were on the floor fair and transparent basis that we can all see and under the Labour Government, receiving below inflation understand. Even Lord Barnett himself cannot believe increases year after year. London has had to put up that his formula, which has existed for some 40 years, with draconian settlements before, and it knows how to was not removed or transformed under 13 years of deal with them. Labour Government, but they did not do it. That is one The second is the London borough of Brent, where of the things that has to go. the Labour council inherited a transformation programme We should deal with issues relating to the front-loading that would have saved £100 million over four years. of reductions in expenditure. The reality is that the Instead, it has decided to close six libraries and all the Government are having to deal with a deficit inherited day care centres, to slash the voluntary sector programme, from the Labour Government. We get maximum benefit and to decimate services for the weak and vulnerable. from making public expenditure reductions early because That is a political decision. I suspect that that is precisely we get four or five years-worth of reductions as a result. what is going on all over the country. Certain people are That is precisely the reason for doing it. making decisions to close libraries, day care centres and other centres that affect the weak and vulnerable in James Morris: As the right hon. Member for Don advance of the Localism Bill, which will give local Valley (Caroline Flint) said, Labour was committed to communities the opportunity to take them over and run reducing the structural deficit in four years, which implied them. that 20% cuts in public expenditure would have been applied to local government. However, we did not hear Brandon Lewis: My hon. Friend is talking about a single thing from the Opposition about what they London, but does he agree that what he describes is would have cut. mirrored outside London? The hon. Member for Sheffield 407 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 408

[Brandon Lewis] I also urge Ministers to continue the process of helping councils to freeze council tax not just for one or South East (Mr Betts) spoke about areas that are deprived two years but on a continuous basis, so that hard-pressed and hard-hit. Great Yarmouth, which is one of the tax payers do not suffer any penalty as a result of the most deprived areas in the country and is the hardest hit actions of the councils that operate their services. We by these cuts, has said that it can deal with this situation can all applaud our Front-Bench team for the work that without it affecting front-line services. It is doing so they are doing. through shared services, thereby proving that this work can be done by councils that are prepared to be positive 6.41 pm and think outside the box. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): When I Bob Blackman: My hon. Friend makes a good point. spoke on local government funding in December, The reality is that the councils that planned ahead, Government Members accused me of pre-empting the knowing that reductions would take place, however final settlement and of scaremongering. They superciliously draconian, are coping best. The councils that put their lauded my passion but suggested that I await the heads in the sand and said that it would never happen Government’s definitive announcements before jumping are being caught out. They are now being called to to conclusions regarding how Liverpool would fare. account. If councils have not planned ahead, they will Well, I have done that. suffer. The formula has been decided, the figures have been published, the maths has been done, and I repeat Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): Like the vociferously now what I said back then. Not only will hon. Gentleman, I represent a London constituency. the scale, pace and nature of these draconian measures My local authority faces cuts of £87 million over the imposed in the name of fiscal restraint have a devastating next four years, out of a budget of £271 million. It is impact on Liverpool, but in the wider scheme of things, finding that difficult, having decided to protect care for the cuts will prove an utterly false economy. the elderly and child protection, which amount to I stated in December that Liverpool would be £109 million of the budget. It is a disgrace for him to disproportionately hit, and I repeat that claim today. I suggest that it is a political choice for councils to look at should declare at this point that I am still a sitting other front-line services. Does he not agree that the Liverpool city councillor, at least until May. At Prime scope for finding savings is limited, should councils Minister’s questions earlier, a Tory Member had the choose to protect essential services for the vulnerable? temerity to say “Shame on Labour councillors” when Bob Blackman: I thank the hon. Lady for that the Prime Minister tried to blame Liverpool for his big intervention. It leads me on to my menu of what councils society failures in the city. It did not take long for the should do. Have they eliminated unnecessary monitoring? malevolent Tories to revert to type and put the boot in Have they eliminated duplication and multiple handling to Liverpool, did it? of applications for grants and other such services? Have That comment shows the Conservatives’ lack of they reviewed senior officer pay? Have they co-operated understanding, because it is not just Labour in Liverpool with other local authorities to reduce costs by combining that is saying that the Tory cuts will savage our services. back-office services? Have they cut their communications The whole council—Labour, Green and Liberal and budgets, or have they chosen to send out publications to even the Liberal Democrats, who used to run the council—is the community on a regular basis? Have they removed up in arms. The books are there for all to see, so I am vacant posts that are unnecessary? Have they rationalised happy to invite the Secretary of State to come and have their office space and found office space that is no a look at them to see the dilemma that he alone has longer required? Have they taken their efficiency savings created. We in Liverpool now know that we will have to seriously and delivered them year after year, or have save a budget-busting £92 million in the financial year they continued on the same basis as before? Have they ahead, and the council has very little, if any, room for got into smarter procurement and come together with manoeuvre. For all its valiant efforts to balance the other local authorities to use their buying power to books, both jobs and front-line services are to go. As we reduce their costs? Have they considered a long-term have heard, some 1,500 redundancies are predicted over plan anticipating all the reductions? If authorities have the next two years. done all those things and still have problems, then it is Before hon. Members shout me down, I fully right that they approach the Secretary of State for help acknowledge that Liverpool is not alone. Local authorities and advice on how to construct their budget at local up and down the country are facing crippling cuts, but I level, but not until then. shall explain what is particularly galling about the situation This Government and our Front-Bench team have in which Liverpool city council finds itself. In December, produced a set of figures and budget proposals that can the Minister for Housing and Local Government was be supported and that will be recognised in the years to reported as pontificating: come as a dramatic step forward in ensuring that people “If councils share back office services, join forces to procure, get proper value for money in the local services that are cut out the crazy non-jobs and root out the wild over-spends then delivered to them. I ask that we consider how more they can protect frontline services.” money can be raised locally through the transitional The implication was clear: profligate and irresponsible business rates and in other such ways, and I ask that we local authorities needed to get their act together. The consider how to deal with deprivation in future. It is a Minister was preaching to the converted in Liverpool. disgrace that has gone on for far too long that the Having long been tightening its purse strings, it has deprived areas of the country have consumed more and achieved a total of £70.4 million of savings in the last more money, yet continued to be the deprived areas. three years, about £40 million of which was saved in the That cannot be right, and we have to put it right. current financial year under a Labour-controlled council. 409 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 410

How Liverpool managed that might be of interest to us earlier that the average spending power reduction is the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman). around 4.4% nationally. Okay. I will state now—without, Liverpool did it by making proven efficiency savings in by the way, the authority of my local council—that we management, administration and back office services, will accept the national average cut. We will take that and through economies of scale achieved by sharing, now. If we are all in this together, we will take our fair outsourcing and collaboration. Simultaneously, the share of the pain, but Liverpool is faced with a maximum authority has managed to reduce and stabilise council spending cut of almost 9%, even after receipt of the tax. In fact, our approach was commended in this very transition grant moneys. House by the Secretary of State. It is absurd that while the most deprived community Liverpool has been there and done all that, and is in the country faces the maximum level of spending both able and willing to continue in the same vein, but it reduction, the least deprived, Wokingham, faces a cut cannot perform miracles. That is why the Prime Minister of just 0.63%. The Government can bandy around per was wrong today, and why Liverpool city council was capita figures until they are blue in the face, but the absolutely right last week to refuse any longer to prop bottom line is that the areas facing the biggest spending up the Government’s sham, big society agenda, which squeezes—Liverpool, Manchester and Knowsley—are was always a cover for a cynical exploitation of community the poorest. So much for protecting the vulnerable. And and voluntary tradition to obtain public services on the so much for facts—not only did the Secretary of State cheap. have the audacity to claim on television recently that What is most objectionable is the way in which Ministers spending power in Liverpool would not be affected any have banged on about protecting the most vulnerable more adversely than anywhere else, but he said that communities, believing, it seems, as my right hon. Friend funding for supported people would be “entirely protected”. the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) says, that if That simply is not the case. Liverpool city council has they say something often enough, people will eventually advised that its supporting people funding has been believe it to be true. Well, not in Liverpool they won’t. slashed by 30%. But why let facts get in the way of an Our city is a city transformed. We are a great city do a unsound policy and a soundbite? business in, and once again I make the offer to the Despite all this, Liverpool city council has sought to Tories to hold their party conference in Liverpool so work with Ministers in a bid to comply with Government that they can see what a great city it is first hand, just as diktat. In a spirit of collaboration and compromise— the Lib Dems did last year and the Labour party will do allegedly so de rigueur with the Tory-led Government—the this year. council has requested flexibility on two specific fronts. First, we are asking the Government to grant us Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): capitalisation permission to help to meet the estimated The hon. Gentleman has told the House of his scepticism redundancy costs of £45 million. The council does not in respect of the future of the big society. However, does hold out much hope, however. As we heard earlier, he believe that the previous Government’s policy of big capitalisation permissions have been capped at £200 million government has served either the people of Liverpool for the whole of England, and a recent letter circulated or this country very well, considering the devastating to local authority leaders held out little promise of a economic landscape and legacy that they left for the relaxation in that limit. That leaves Liverpool city council coalition Government? in the invidious position of being unable to afford to keep employees on or to let them go. Believe me, it is Steve Rotheram: Dear me. It’s the same old mantra, with a heavy heart that we are making these proposed isn’t it? We have had the debate on the deficit and the redundancies—it is not a political game. argument about whose responsibility it was. The hon. Secondly, the council asked Ministers to rethink and Gentleman will say one thing—I think Government recalibrate the front-loaded spending cuts, allowing it Members get brownie points if they stand up and to spread them less abruptly and less painfully over the mention £120 million, and the Whips must be going, four-year spending review period. The Government are “That’s a good girl, that’s a good lad. They’ll go far in not prepared to budge on this, apparently. Instead, they the Government”—but I am not going to rehearse the will magnanimously reduce the maximum spending power same argument today. That is why I confined my argument cut from 8.9% to 8.8%. Thanks for the crumbs. This is a and contribution specifically to what is happening in parlous state of affairs. Those who challenge the severity my city. The Government cannot keep cutting without of local government cuts are the ones who are deficit social consequences. My contention is that the formula deceivers. The so-called localism agenda is looking less that is being used is unfair to Liverpool, and the cumulative and less like an experiment in local autonomy and more effect will be devastating. and more like a monumental exercise in fiscal buck I have explained the transformation of our city, and I passing—a wily move, but transparent. hate to acknowledge this, but it is common knowledge: Liverpool is the most deprived local authority in England. It is becoming increasingly apparent that, for all the I wish it was not. Seventy per cent. of its areas are slick rhetoric, this is not a reconstructed Tory party, but classed as falling within the most deprived 10% nationally the same old nasty Tories with a Lib Dem human in terms of health and disability, and 57% of the population shield. This Government do not give two hoots about has been assessed as “employment deprived”. poverty, disadvantage or inequality. What is more, the city relies disproportionately heavily on the now-threatened public sector. If that does not 6.52 pm make Liverpool extremely vulnerable in these difficult times, I do not know what does, yet the Government Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): I shall try to keep my persist in hiding behind averages. The Government told remarks brief. 411 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 412

[Charlie Elphicke] circumstances. Many of them are elderly, and many are poor. Stopping council tax rises benefits them massively, The Secretary of State has set out our position in particularly those on fixed incomes. Therefore, on the relation to debt and the public finances. We all know one hand, we have a set of tough decisions aimed at that we have a structural deficit of £109 billion, and we ensuring that we make those efficiencies, and on the all know how much interest per day is being paid— other, we have managed to stop council tax rising, £120 million. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton which is important. (Steve Rotheram) made an impassioned plea on behalf I totally agree with the Secretary of State when he of his city and said that we had had the discussion says that we need smarter procurement. We are doing about the deficit and we should now move on. But that that in Kent, with the Kent Buying Consortium. He has is the problem: we have had the discussion about the said that we need better asset management, too. Many deficit and now we are seeing the consequence of years people are more than aware of the position in Newham, of overspending. We cannot get away from it. I wish we where there is a new, flashy building that has cost an could. I did not stand for election and get sent to this awful lot of money. We have to be much more cute House to be part of the difficult decisions that we have about using asset management. We have the streamlining made. All of us as politicians love to hand out lollipops, and merging of operations, and in Dover and Shepway kiss babies, cut the ribbon at the fête and do the nice we increasingly have shared services, so that there will things, but the sad reality is that we also have to take the be a shared chief executive and shared back office. That difficult decisions when the nation is in the most difficult agenda has been embraced in Kent, which is important. position it has been in for years. It is also important to consider how best to deliver Mr Speaker, you will recall that some years ago you services. Suffolk county council has at times been a bit sat on Lambeth council when it was under Labour over the top with its chief officers, but it has led the way control. At that time, you were a powerful advocate for on how services can be run, with care homes operating the Conservative party. After your period in office, I as social enterprises. In my constituency, I am promoting was elected when it was a hung council. You were not the case for a care home in Deal to be transferred to a able to influence events dramatically in Lambeth as you community interest company when the local authority were in a minority under a majority Labour administration. feels unable to continue running it. In a hung situation, things were much more discursive— That is the right way forward. I do not think that this is a debate in which we should necessarily be partisan or Mr Speaker: Order. May I say very gently to the hon. throw rocks at each other, because we know the financial Gentleman that although I am sure his advertisement of position. I could quote the figures showing that Labour my curriculum vitae is well intentioned, it is on the was going to cut the budget by £5 billion—that was in whole undesirable for right hon. or hon. Members to Labour’s pre-Budget report—and all the rest of it, but invoke the past positions or experience of the Chair in would that help matters? No, because we know the support of their own arguments. I feel sure that he is position of the nation’s finances. dextrous enough to advance his own argument without any assistance from me. Andrew Bridgen: Does my hon. Friend agree that the fact that my local council in North West Leicestershire Charlie Elphicke: I meant no discourtesy, Mr Speaker. is facing budget cuts of 10% somewhat undermines the Moving quickly to my own history, when I was complaints made by the previous speaker, the hon. elected in 1994 we had a hung council. We had a mess to Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram), about sort out. All three parties worked positively together to Liverpool’s budget being cut by 9%? Does that not do that and, frankly, to look at how to un-bankrupt a prove that we are indeed all in this together? We all council that by then had £1 billion of debt. Difficult know who put us in it, and we should not let them decisions were made. The emphasis was very much on forget it for one moment. ensuring better front-line services. My experience was that although we made difficult rebalancing decisions, Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend makes a fair point. we were able not only to protect front-line services but Just as when all parties in Lambeth worked together to improve them quite dramatically.People on the doorstep positively in the local authority’s interest, it would be were saying that they were now getting front-line services, best if we all worked together in the national interest to as opposed to excessive bureaucracy and—I regret to ensure that all councillors, from all parties, did not try say in the case of Lambeth in those times—in some to score political points, which we have seen far too cases corruption, so positive changes can be made when much of lately, but instead worked positively, thinking difficult decisions are taken and things are reworked. not about advancement, aggrandisement or the headlines One thing that I particularly welcome is the council that they might be able to get, but about their constituents. tax position. Council tax has been increased in the last At the end of the day, we were all sent here by our decade or so—I believe that it has doubled—to the constituents—whether in Liverpool, which is seeking a current level of £1,439. That is an awful lot of money bit of attention, or anywhere else, it does not matter. All and a massive increase. We know that, because of the local authority leaders have a responsibility to give their deficit, it is not possible to increase local government constituents the best possible services and assistance in spending on the grant settlement side of things. We also these extraordinarily difficult conditions. know that people have been flayed alive for over a decade, given the amount of council tax that they have 7pm been asked to pay. I therefore particularly welcome the Government’s decision to work positively with local Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): I shall keep authorities to freeze council tax. That is important to my remarks brief, because I know that many Members constituents such as mine who live in deprived want the debate to wind up. I shall have the opportunity 413 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 414 tomorrow afternoon to meet the Minister for Housing I want to make just a few observations about the and Local Government together with my hon. Friends position that Salford is in. The Chancellor of the Exchequer the Members for Manchester Central (Tony Lloyd) and said, “We will not balance the books on the backs of for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer). I can the poor.”However, Salford is one of the poorest authorities. tell the Minister that I am looking forward enormously We are in a consultation process with our community, to looking him in the eye as I make my points on behalf and I spoke to my leader this afternoon. We are looking of my community, which I feel incredibly strongly about. at the possibility of having to close libraries and one of Today, I have a terrible feeling of déjà-vu. When I our sports centres, as well as taking £1 million out of came into the House 13 years ago, it was at the end of our youth service and £500,000 out of adult social care. almost 20 years of Conservative Government. Before Unlike many local authorities, ours has said that it still that, I was a local councillor in my community for eight wants to provide services to elderly people who have years. I had spent every one of those eight years as a moderate, as well as critical, needs. That has always councillor under a Tory Government cutting budgets been a priority for Salford, but we are still going to have year on year. When I came here, our public services to take £500,000 out of that service. We will also have to were on their knees. Two of my inner-city wards had make a 42% cut in the Connexions service. I want my 50% male unemployment, and we had 70% youth youngsters to get the skills and to have the ambition to unemployment. My local council had been absolutely get those jobs in Media City, but how can they aspire to decimated. That was the reality of being in local government that kind of future if they do not have a proper careers under a Tory Government, and I am sorry to say that it guidance service? feels as though history might be about to repeat itself. We are having to cut the citizens advice bureaux by All the progress that we have made over the past 10 to 15%—it is the minimum we can do, but we know that 15 years is in the process of being unravelled; we are people will be out of work, as we are looking at losing going to go backwards instead of forwards. 450 jobs in the city. People will have debts and will need Recently, I had a meeting with my chief constable, advice, so what do we have to do? We have to cut the Peter Fahy, to talk about the police cuts, which we CAB and the 60-odd independent financial advisers discussed here earlier today. I have a huge amount of that we funded through the financial inclusion fund, time for him; he is an extremely good officer. He told which is about to be slashed. The amount of advice left me that what worried him most was that we would go available will be absolutely minimal. Our voluntary backwards and undo all the progress that had been organisations will have to be cut perhaps by 10% to made. He was particularly worried that the advances 15%. Again, Salford council is really trying to make that we have made for young people would be undone, sure that it protects those voluntary organisations, but because young people are the foundations for the future. they cannot be immune from the cuts that the rest of I put it to the Secretary of State that the cuts that he the service has to take. is imposing are unfair. They are unfairly targeted at the I mentioned area-based grants. I feel strongly about poorest communities, and they will undermine the them because area-based grants were specifically directed at foundations that we have built for the future. The education poor and deprived areas that had extra needs. The results in my city are now immeasurably improved, slashing of area-based grants has disproportionately crime has gone down dramatically, and housing and affected those living in the poorest parts of our community. regeneration have gone forward apace. We have Media In Salford, it was 11% of our total budget, and much of City at Salford Quays, and we have the opportunity to that money was used to tackle crime and antisocial build a fantastic future. This year, however, we are behaviour, to provide youth services and diversion schemes facing £47 million of cuts in Salford. Next year, it will and to keep young people off the streets and make the be £48 million, and the year after, it will be £55 million. community safer. All that is about to disappear. Those are not political choices. I do not know how the I genuinely feel that these cuts are unfair, despite the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) can Secretary of State’s smoke and mirrors about spending stand up in the Chamber and make the outrageous power, his new definitions and all his obfuscation of the claim that councillors who are doing their best to protect real situation. The cuts in spending power in his area their communities are making deliberate, unnecessary are of less than 1% next year, yet we are looking at political choices to cut services. That is an insult not 15% cuts in Salford. For the area of the Leader of the only to Labour councillors but to Conservative and House, the cuts are less than 1%; for the Home Secretary’s Liberal Democrat councillors. I have been a councillor, area, less than 1%; for the Culture Secretary’s, the and I know how hard it is to make the kind of choices Transport Secretary’s and the Education Secretary’s that are having to be made now. areas, less than 1%. These are some of the most affluent Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Does parts of the country. I believe that if cuts have to be my right hon. Friend agree that some of these grant made, which they do, they must be fair—but they are choices are not simply about fairness? For example, simply not fair. some of the settlements for the fire and rescue authorities I say to the Secretary of State that I have a huge amount could be very dangerous. In Nottinghamshire, the number of respect for the people of this country: they are not of fire tender appliances is apparently going to be stupid; they understand that hard decisions have to be reduced from 36 to 30. These funding decisions are made, but they also have a well-developed sense of justice creating really serious risks. and fairness. They will see right through what the Secretary Hazel Blears: My hon. Friend is absolutely right; we of State is doing. Transparency will come for the Tory share the same concerns. The Greater Manchester fire party’s actions; people will see right through them. and rescue authority has had to make even further cuts I commend the campaign launched in the Manchester because the figures changed halfway through its budget Evening News. It is a massive campaign against the cuts, process. urging local people to sign a petition. The Manchester 415 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 416

[Hazel Blears] the community, devolving power and introducing more plurality to the provision of public services. However, as Evening News is not a partisan paper; it represents has been pointed out by Dame Elisabeth Hoodless of people right across the conurbation. They, too, can see the Community Service Volunteers, Thomas Hughes- the unfairness. Nine of our 10 boroughs in Greater Hallett, chief executive of Marie Curie Cancer Care, Sir Manchester have cuts higher than the national average. Stuart Etherington of the National Council for Voluntary The only borough that does not is in the constituency of Organisations, and Sir Stephen Bubb of the Association the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations—none Local Government, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove of whom are partisan people—while the Government (Andrew Stunell); that has a below-average amount of talk of the need to empower voluntary organisations cuts. People across Greater Manchester—people in and local communities, they are making massive, deep, Rochdale, in Oldham and in places right across the draconian cuts in the voluntary sector. That simply area—know that these cuts are deeply unfair. I have no does not add up. It is totally contradictory, and it is doubt that action will be taken at the ballot box in May. increasing the sense of cynicism and disempowerment My final point is about what else could be done. We that exists in our communities. heard a lot from the Secretary of State about community If the Government have any genuine commitment to budgets. As he well knows, I started off my time in the giving people the power to change their own lives, they Department with Total Place, which meant bringing must recognise the total incoherence and inconsistency together and pooling budgets, co-location, integrated that lies at the heart of their so-called big society. This is services, systems engineering, and service redesign—all not community action; it is do-it-yourself. The Government those things that Government Members have talked are telling people, “You are on your own, with no about. However, for major service redesign, time for back-up and no ability to take on roles of this kind.” I planning is necessary—it cannot be done at the drop of know that some Members genuinely support these a hat, because different skills and competences are principles, but I fear that, given the cuts that we are involved and people might have to be made redundant. seeing, they are going absolutely nowhere except into We have heard about the lack of capitalisation for that the sand. sort of project; it cannot be done all at once. I echo the My final plea to the Government relates to community points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield budgeting. For goodness sake, let us get on with it more South East (Mr Betts), the Chairman of the Select quickly. We will be able to ameliorate some of the pain Committee. Why are these cuts front loaded, which that our communities will feel only if we can re-engineer makes it so much more difficult to do the systems our services, pool the budgets, achieve the necessary redesign that could result in efficiencies without the co-location, and start to address many of our current need for front-line cuts? problems. At present that programme is minimalist. I The Secretary of State will tell me otherwise, but I think we have been told that four areas in the country genuinely believe that the reason for having the cuts might adopt community budgeting. We know what early on is that more freedom to manoeuvre—and to be happened with the four big society areas. I ask the more generous—will be possible in the two years leading Secretary of State to enable us to support many more up to the next general election. The Government will areas, so that they can provide services in a new and, I hope to reap the rewards from that. I hope that it is not believe, more integrated way that could lead to a the Secretary of State’s intention to make a partisan transformation in the provision of local government political budget in this way. I would like some reassurance services. that he is trying to be fair rather than to seek political advantage. When we reach the two years before the election and we will have had these massively front-loaded 7.12 pm cuts in the first two years, I will be amazed if we do not Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I do not wish to rehearse see the Secretary of State seeking some room for manoeuvre arguments that have been presented by Members on for electoral advantage. both sides of the House. Instead, I shall focus on the case of Somerset county council. Mr Pickles: I am grateful to the right hon. Lady who, as always, is giving a thoughtful speech. I can assure her Before any funding announcements had been made, absolutely that that it not the intention, and I can assure Somerset county council’s leader announced to local her absolutely that that is why we have put in extra people that he wished to make cuts amounting to protection for the most vulnerable. £43 million. Then, in early January, he announced that he wished to make a further tranche of cuts amounting Hazel Blears: I think that if the Secretary of State to £20 million. He said that he would close some libraries, came to Salford—as the Minister for Housing and cut bus subsidies, cut the community safety budget by Local Government did recently—and said that he had 100%—which would mean the loss of our wonderful given extra protection to the most vulnerable members police community support officers—cut funds for the of our community, he would receive the sort of typically Duke of Edinburgh award and the youth clubs by robust Salford reply that I could not possibly use in the nearly 100%, and cut arts funding and the voluntary House. sector by 100%. He also said that he would sell the Over the last couple of weeks, we have heard a great county farms, which seemed ludicrous to me given that deal about the big society. Apparently Lord Wei is they provide a return of some 6% or 7%—more than unable to do quite as much as he used to because he no could be obtained from any bank. longer has time to volunteer, which I thought was a The leader of Somerset county council seems obsessed wonderful irony. As the Secretary of State will know, I with the idea of clearing debt. He does not seem to strongly support the underlying principles of involving understand that for most businesses it is quite all right 417 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 418 to have a mortgage or a loan. They know what the on Wednesday, I will ask the Secretary of State to give repayments will be, and they schedule them. There is me an appointment so I can come along with the leader nothing extraordinary about that. I do not think that I of Somerset county council to ask that gentleman to know a farmer or small business man who has saved up explain himself and his actions. all his money before buying stock. Such people go to the bank and take out a loan. They know how long it 7.18 pm will take them to repay the loan, and it is scheduled. Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): They increase their assets, and tuck the money back Hammersmith and Fulham council is closing nine of its into the business. That is what has happened over many 15 children centres this year, and by doing so it will years in Somerset under the Liberal Democrats. generate about £2 million in savings. That is part of the The leader of Somerset county council has said that £6 million savings in children’s services, which in turn he wishes to make his cuts over three years rather than are part of the £13 million savings in social services, four, which strikes many people as a frantic attempt to which in turn are part of the £27 million that the clear debt. It is a bit like people paying off their mortgage council aims to save in the coming financial year. The or their car or fridge loan and realising that actually total over the three years is £65 million, or about a third they do not have any money and they cannot buy food of its budget. because they are so obsessed with clearing their debt. Because of the policies the Secretary of State is pursuing, many councils are having to make unimaginable Chris Leslie: The hon. Lady is making an important cuts of this kind. I want to focus on two points in point about how politicians who are obsessed with debt respect of Hammersmith and Fulham council. First, in reduction at the cost of everything else may well find making those very difficult decisions it has chosen to themselves in jeopardy. Does that not remind her of the target the most vulnerable people, and the services that Chancellor of the Exchequer’s attitude, who I think she all parties represented in this House say that they wish is supporting? to be preserved. Secondly, it maintains a charade, with which the Secretary of State has colluded and continues Tessa Munt: I disagree, because the situation here is collude, that it is doing this in a new way—that these are that the county council has £29 million in reserves, new cuts that will not affect front-line services. excluding the money attached to schools, yet we have a In particular—this picks up the point just made by man who wishes to put aside £15 million for redundancies, the hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt)—the council which is going to decimate the council staff, and to says that it will pay off debt, and in that way generate make cuts over three years instead of four. If he was to revenue income. It says that it will merge back-office reschedule his debt over four years, it would be a lot less services and in that way avoid affecting front-line services. difficult for people in Somerset. Happily, as a result of I will break the spell immediately by saying that even if campaigning by local people, three libraries have been those two ideas—the merger and the disposals to pay saved: Shepton Mallet, Glastonbury and Cheddar. However, off debt—are both successful, which is by no means the library in Highbridge, an area that probably needs a certain, the total amount of money generated would be library more than any other because there are so few about £1 million, or 4% of the total cuts. That is what facilities in that town, is still under threat. we are being led to believe is the new way of making I approached one of the Secretary of State’s Ministers cuts. because I wanted to understand. There is so much Before I came to this debate, I had two meetings this confusion among local people about what is actually afternoon about Sure Start. The first was of an all-party involved, because there is one grant and another grant, group, to which the Minister with responsibility for and little bits of money get thrown back and forth in children came to speak. He is an honourable man, as conversation, and nobody really understands what is well as being an hon. Gentleman, and I believed what happening. I asked the Minister in question to explain he said, which is what I have heard all the Education to me in simple terms the situation facing Somerset. In Ministers repeat. They believe that there is sufficient simple terms, this year—the year ending on 31 March— money to maintain the network of children’s centres Somerset has £368 million to spend, and next year, and that there is no need to attack their budgets, particularly starting on 1 April, it has £360 million. That is a the phase 1 centres that serve the most vulnerable difference of only £8 million in spending money, which groups. amounts to 2%. Somerset has had a fantastic deal That appears to be Government policy, but this is therefore, so I do not understand the obsession that this what is happening in Hammersmith and Fulham. First, gentleman has. Moreover, the Government have been the closure of the nine centres was announced between generous in granting £42 million in capital grants. That Christmas and new year—on page 34 of a report called means we can fix the roads, which are in a shocking “Family Support”. Secondly, when that report came up state, and do something about school buildings. As far for decision—by that time, thanks to the Daily Mirror as I can see, the county is £20 million better off than it and other great organs of state, a lot of the local ever has been, and, as I understand it, the capital grant population had been alerted to the situation—the council is cash, and that £42 million is about £41 million more said, “You’ve misunderstood what we’re doing. We’re than anyone ever expected to have. not closing any children’s centres,” but it then proceeded As far as I can see therefore, Somerset has an increase to vote through, on 10 January, the 50% budget cut that in funding from central Government, and that funding meant that those centres had to close. Having made is relatively generous in the current economic circumstances. that decision, it then began a consultation process—but I therefore do not understand why the county council that process identifies phase 1 children’s centres, the leader is going to announce a series of cuts next Wednesday. budget for which is to go down from £473,000 to If those cuts proceed and he makes those announcements £19,000. Threats were made to the staff, who were not 419 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 420

[Mr Andy Slaughter] Three other community centres all came up with viable business plans that would have allowed them to informed before the closure of their centres was announced continue operating from their community centres and in the press. Heads of centres were told that they could pay a commercial rent, which would have meant that not talk to me, or even to the Government, about what over a period of two or three years, the council would was happening. not have lost money. Without listening any further to those ideas the council voted through the proposal, and To her credit, the Minister of State, Department for all these buildings will be sold off to produce an income Education, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah of about £500,000 a year. The opportunity cost for the Teather), did say during a Westminster Hall debate that tens of thousands of people who will no longer have she was concerned about, and was monitoring, what those facilities available to them, including the elderly was happening in Hammersmith and Fulham. If the people and the 750 kids from deprived backgrounds Government want to hold their line on Sure Start, they who go to dancing classes at one of these places, is need to address the situation in Hammersmith and unimaginable. But this is what the council is proud of. Fulham. It is not just Sure Start centres; youth clubs are closing too. I received a deputation representing 1,000 young The other thing that the council is proud of is the people who use a youth club just outside my constituency merger with Westminster city council and Kensington that is closing, and I am told that all but one of the and Chelsea borough council, which was announced youth centres will close. Council estates are being yesterday. I alluded in an earlier intervention to the demolished. Secretary of State’s claim last October—he associated himself with this claim—that the move would save I went to a meeting at an old people’s home last £100 million. When the report was published yesterday, Friday where, in order to raise £250,000, the air rights it said that in the dim and distant future—no detail was over the car park are being sold to a private school next provided—this would save about £34 million between door, so that no light will reach the old people’s home. the three councils. That is already only a third of the Some of those old people spend 100% of their time in sum that was claimed some two to three months ago. that home. This is what is happening in a Conservative- The actual quantified savings for next year, between the controlled council in London at the moment. This is the three councils, was less than £3 million, and the actual reality of the “painless” cuts. sum for Hammersmith and Fulham council was £500,000. That is the big new idea. [Interruption.] I hear the hon. Those are the things that we do not hear about in Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray) Hammersmith and Fulham. What about the things we making a sedentary comment. She represents my previous do hear about? What about the paying off of debt—that seat, and I always give her credence. She is absolutely prudent way of reducing debt? That happened on Monday, right that £500,000 of genuine saving of back-office when, at a meeting of the council’s cabinet—I believe cost is well worth having, but it is not £27 million, that the Chairman of the Select Committee, my hon. £10 million or £100 million. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), referred to this earlier—the disposal of nine community That sum is worth having, save for the fact that what buildings was agreed to. Those buildings include four those merger proposals envisage is not what hon. Members community centres used by more than 100 voluntary would like to hear—which is that the savings would groups, all of which will be made homeless, and alternative come from economies of scale, procurement, and other provision will not be made for them. Those buildings such administrative matters. We would all support that, include Palingswick house, an imposing building in but instead the proposals are about creating a new central Hammersmith in which 22 voluntary groups entity that is not Hammersmith and Fulham, not occupy space. My right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary Kensington and Chelsea, and not Westminster. It will of State alluded to one of those earlier: the Afghan be entirely unaccountable to the citizens of any of those refugee group. boroughs, and it absolutely flies in the face of devolution and localism. No proper risk assessment has been done Because councils have to produce equality impact of the proposal, and £20 million of the notional £35 million assessments when they are booting voluntary organisations will come from cuts in social services. I hate to think out on to the street, Hammersmith and Fulham did about the number of baby Ps that there will be, and the that. It produced one for the Iranian Association, which number of elderly people who will be put at risk as a caters mainly for refugees from the oppressive regime in result of these crazy, ill-thought-out and half-baked Tehran: the Iranian Association was told that the alternative proposals. provision was to go to the Iranian embassy. The Kurdish Association for Refugees is also based in the building, There is no accountability in the arrangement. Two and runs not only a cultural advice centre but a museum— of the authorities have traditionally been Conservative one promoted by Boris Johnson on his tourist trail of and one has traditionally been Labour. The clear intention London. It was told that the alternative to being booted is to bind the hands of that authority, so that when it out on to the street was to go to an organisation for the returns to Labour control, as it will doubtless do in south Asian population based somewhere in east London. three years’ time, it will no longer have jurisdiction over The Afghan refugee association was told that there its own spending, because that will be centred in a were two alternative sources of provision for Afghan holding company over which none of the individual refugees in London, one was an Afghan restaurant and councillors has control. Is that really the future of the other—as my right hon. Friend the Member for localism in this country? That is the brave new world Don Valley (Caroline Flint) has already said—was the that the Secretary of State’s favourite council has in southern Afghan club, for the promotion of Afghan store for us. hounds. That is how my local community in Hammersmith is being treated by a Conservative council. Mr Pickles indicated dissent. 421 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 422

Mr Slaughter: The Secretary of State may shake his make his point. [Interruption.] He indicates that he will head, but he is very welcome to intervene. He has called reply when he winds up. No doubt that will allow him to the council the apple of his eye, but it is a rotten apple of peddle his ridiculous fantasies again. his misty eye. He needs to have a closer look and clear his vision a little. The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant The next time people hear about Hammersmith and Shapps): Is the hon. Gentleman saying that an advert Fulham council they should think not about the white for a new media expert for £38,000 was not placed by heat of efficient local government, but about those Sure the council? Start buildings that now stand empty, and the community buildings being sold to property developers or used for Tony Lloyd: I have checked and there is a communications pet Government schemes such as Toby Young’s free officer, whom, the House might be interested to know, school. They should think, as my right hon. Friend the was asked to have competence in new technologies such Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) has said, about as Twitter and is equivalent to a number of people in the old mate of the chief executive being paid a total of the Minister’s Department who have the same role, the £700,000 over three years to manage an arm’s length same salary band and the same competences. His Twitter management organisation at the council. They should tsars massively outgun Manchester’s ability to communicate. think of the six chief officers who are paid more than He should think very carefully, because trading insults £150,000 a year and the £250,000 they wasted because at this level does nothing for the people who are going they could not be bothered to turn off the lights at the to lose adult social services. [Interruption.] Does the town hall for five years. Secretary of State want to intervene? That is the reality of Tory local government. They do Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con): Will not care when they waste money, and they take pride in the hon. Gentleman give way? cutting services such as the nine Sure Start centres. The second meeting I went to this afternoon was with the Tony Lloyd: I will give way to the Secretary of State. I heads of those Sure Start organisations, who met here hope the hon. Gentleman will forgive me. to campaign to keep open one of the Labour Government’s great achievements. The Conservatives say they are Mr Pickles: Some of the problems that the hon. committed to Sure Start, but the reality of Tory local Gentleman is talking about relate to the working government on the ground means that those services neighbourhoods fund, which was cut by the Labour will be shut down before we can draw breath. party. Where was he then? Why was he not lecturing the Labour party about those cuts? He criticises us but he 7.31 pm was silent on his constituents’ behalf then. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): I have spent almost my whole political life not wanting to personalise Tony Lloyd: I invite the Secretary of State to come to politics, but I must say to the Secretary of State that he my constituency any day of his choosing. We will walk should be ashamed of himself for losing the battle in around and talk to local people, and we will ask them about the Cabinet and the spending review so that local the record of local government under a Labour Government government has become the victim of his incompetence. and under previous Conservative Governments. As my He should be ashamed of himself because the settlement right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles is divisive within the local government family. It will said, when the Labour Government came into power in inflict damage on vulnerable authorities while, as we 1997, Manchester had seen services consistently destroyed. have heard from my hon. Friend the Member for They were fragile and vulnerable. Under a Labour Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) and the hon. Member Government there was an improvement in standards in for Wells (Tessa Munt), some local authorities are feather- education, health—a much more difficult task—housing bedded and treated with kid gloves. This political decision and crime and disorder. All those improvements of his is an outrage because in cities such as mine it will strengthened our communities and put the cement back be the most vulnerable people who suffer, as my right into our society. hon. Friends the Members for Wythenshawe and That Secretary of State, who chunters away to his Sale East (Paul Goggins) and for Salford and Eccles friends, is putting all that at risk and he is doing so (Hazel Blears) and my hon. Friend the Member for deliberately. There was choice. There was choice in the Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) have pointed out. Budget process that he lost with his friends in Cabinet. [Interruption.] There was choice when he decided to put money into The Secretary of State chunters from a sedentary local authorities such as Somerset, and not to put position. The reality is that, like previous Tory Secretaries money into local authorities such as Manchester. That of State for local government, he has no compassion or is a particularly cruel cycle of choice and a cruel deception. consideration for those who will lose their home help or The Prime Minister stood at the Dispatch Box earlier for the children who will lose the life chances that today and told the House that he was guaranteeing that people in his constituency will take for granted. What Sure Start centres would continue to operate. Let us we have had from him and his Ministers is a campaign talk about the reality in a city such as Manchester, of ridiculous disinformation such as the nonsense that which is having to cut children’s services by some 25%. It has been repeated by Tory Members today about £150,000 has had to say that it will give up control of those Sure going on statues in Manchester or about the Twitter Start centres, and it hopes that the running of them will tsar who was an invention of the Minister for Housing be taken over by the voluntary sector or possibly schools. and Local Government. [Interruption.] The Minister There is no guarantee for the young people in Manchester says something from a sedentary position that I cannot that the Sure Start centres, which are praised by everyone hear, but I am happy to give way to him if he wants to on the Government Benches, will continue to operate. 423 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 424

[Tony Lloyd] Tony Lloyd: The only thing I disagree with is that my right hon. Friend’s words are too mild, because what My hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith says the Secretary of State is doing is the result of political the political choice of the Tory council is to cut the Sure malice. It is political malice because the simple reality is Start centres. In Manchester, a Labour council has to that he chose not to exercise the options that were put those Sure Start centres at risk because of the available to him. He chose to make a local government actions of the Secretary of State and his friends. settlement that puts at risk not only money—if it was only money perhaps we would move on—but the resources Charlie Elphicke: The hon. Gentleman talks of political on which people depend for living their lives. It puts at choices. Yes, we can talk about statues, Twitter tsars, risk those things that saw crime and disorder diminish creative directors and the junket in the south of France, in Manchester and that began to give young children in but the key political choice in Manchester is to axe inner-city areas like mine opportunities in life that he 2,000 jobs while there is £100 million in reserves. How would take for granted—the Secretary of State smiles. can the hon. Gentleman justify that? He is smiling while I talk about children being denied the opportunity to get on in life, because that does not Tony Lloyd: I think the hon. Gentleman is either a matter to a Conservative Government, or to their Liberal little hard of hearing or not too fast at understanding. Democrat friends and supporters. It does matter My right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe enormously, because they are brutalising our society. and Sale East made the point earlier. Those balances that the Secretary of State and his Ministers have Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): Earlier, traded and which they said are there as some luxury the Secretary of State mentioned extra resources for the cushion are, in the case of Manchester, allocated money. concessionary fares for shire district councils, yet two weeks ago the Conservative and Liberal Democrat-led Grant Shapps: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise Greater Manchester transport authority scrapped the that there is £108 million of non-schools money held by young people’s concession and the peak-time pensioners’ his local authority? Earmarked does not mean the same concessionary fare. That is the reality on the ground, as allocated. and is it not another example of the unfairness? Tony Lloyd: The £64 million that will now be allocated will be for the redundancies that the Government are Tony Lloyd: My hon. Friend makes an important forcing the council to make. That is the answer to the point, because all of this is about political choice, and hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke). It is a we have to face that squarely. The Secretary of State disgrace that Manchester must spend such a huge amount knows that it is about political choice, because he has of money making good local government workers form in local government. I remember when he was a redundant. That is the responsibility of the Secretary of national figure in local government; he is now a national State. As a result, the things that the Housing Minister figure in national government, but sadly the rhetoric described as being merely earmarked will now not go and the reality have not changed. I believe that local ahead, so Manchester will lose provision and facilities government is fundamentally important to the lives that because of the Government’s decision. my constituents live. I believe that things such as swimming pools and leisure centres really do matter as part of the Charlie Elphicke: The hon. Gentleman speaks of the process of making our society more decent and more £64 million earmarked for redundancies. What we did liveable and of properly giving our young people some in Lambeth, what happens in most authorities, and stake in that society and some opportunity for the what the Government are doing, is to examine the future. Frankly, he does not share the view that local possibility of natural wastage and introduce a slower government is the answer to our nation’s problems; he programme of voluntary redundancies, which would regards it as part of those problems. not mean as great a shock as the hon. Gentleman is I must admit that I genuinely like the Housing talking about. Minister—I am sorry if I damage his future by saying so—because he is a nice man. He said that he was going Tony Lloyd: Let me try to bring the hon. Gentleman to Manchester next week, so I hope that he will come forward a little in his thinking. Manchester would love and talk seriously with the people in my town hall, and to have done that. Manchester has not made compulsory perhaps in the other local authorities around Greater redundancies—possibly it is true to say—in my lifetime. Manchester, because he needs to recognise that the Manchester is now having to do that because the pace Government have simply got it wrong. If he wants to of the cuts that his Secretary of State is making is so stand at the Dispatch Box, as he will in a moment, and rapid that it has no choice. For an authority such as tell me that the cuts are not the result of brutal, cynical, Manchester, 25% of the budget cannot be taken out of malicious and political choices, he can offer to come to the pot without that resulting in compulsory redundancies. my city and talk through the finances. If I am right and he is wrong, and Manchester cannot possibly manage Paul Goggins: Does my hon. Friend agree that without making serious cuts in public services, perhaps the comments, remarks and challenges coming from he will have the good grace to admit that the Government Government Members reveal a complete lack of must change their minds. I hope that that will happen, understanding of the nature of a city like Manchester? but I fear that it will not. Manchester is a world leading city. It is founded on two things—first, a strong partnership with the private sector and secondly, over recent years, having the money to 7.43 pm invest in the communities that need it. Does my hon. The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Friend share my concern that their ignorance and arrogance Shapps): It must have been an incredible experience to mean that the progress that we made is put at risk? stand at this Dispatch Box for the local government 425 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 426 finance settlement in any of the past few years and Having accepted that there should be some reductions, announce on a whim yet more money being piled up it was not as if the right hon. Member for Don Valley and sent around the country in various directions. (Caroline Flint), who shadows the Department, was Unfortunately, we do not live in that kind of world able to agree with any of the methods that might be today, and the sad thing is that we did not live in that used to make reductions without harming front-line kind of world even then. The previous Government services. In fact, she went so far as to ridicule my hon. thought that they had money to spend, but the truth Friend the Member for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) was that it had long since been spent. A year ago, all because he mentioned in an intervention that Hampshire they were doing was standing here and spending money council has just announced that it will cut £7 million that had never been raised, that was not available and next year by cutting the senior management salaries that would actually have to come from the children of and work force. That was pooh-poohed as impossible. every Member of the House and of all our constituents Well, for the sake of clarity, I have managed to get hold for many years to come. of a copy of that detailed information, and my hon. At the election, people had a choice, and their decision Friend was wrong: it is not £7 million that will be saved was to elect a Government who were primarily going to by cutting senior management; in fact, it is £7.9 million. get on with cutting the deficit. Today, however, there The idea that money cannot be saved or that leadership has been not a word of apology from the Opposition for cannot be shown by example when senior people take a getting us into that enormous financial mess that meant cut, as Ministers in this Government have with a five-year that this country had the highest deficit of any country pay freeze, or that that does not have an impact further in the western world—of any OECD top 20 country. down the line on the rest of senior and middle management, Do they recognise that as a fact? Do they understand has been blown apart. The authorities that have taken where things went wrong? Are they here today to apologise such steps have found it much easier to sell to the rest of and to show that they are going to set a new path? the authority the difficult decisions that have had to be Absolutely not, because as we saw at lunchtime the made. policy vacuum on the Opposition Benches is quite Nor is the right hon. Lady correct when she talks literally a booklet with empty blank pages inside. about the £10 billion of reserves. There are £10 billion There has been no response and no sense of where of reserves for local authorities, as has already been those cuts would fall. The Opposition do say that there pointed out in an intervention, but the right hon. Lady would be some cuts; it is just that we are not allowed to says that 70% of it has been earmarked, and, in that, she know where they would fall. The Opposition accept makes a fundamental mistake, which I am surprised that local government spends a quarter of all government about, because she was in this Department when in money, but it seems that none of those cuts would be in government. The reality is that “earmarked” is not the any way painful under their budget, which, they say, same as “spent” or “allocated”. “Earmarked” does not would halve the deficit over this Parliament. mean that the money cannot be used in the intervening Halving the deficit, however, is not enough. I believe period to ensure that front-loaded reductions, which we there is a fundamental misunderstanding of how this have heard a lot about, can be handled in a much better country’s accounts work. Indeed, perhaps that was the way. problem over 13 years: the previous Government did My hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight not understand that, if we only halve the deficit, we will (Mr Turner) raised a serious technical issue that he had still pile up debt. The figure of £44 billion, which we are already come to ask us to look at again. We did do that, currently spending at record interest rates just on repaying but we could not find in favour of his local authority. the interest alone, would have gone up to £70 billion However, I say to him and to all other hon. Members and more, yet the Opposition have not a single answer—not that we thought that the concessionary fares mess that a single penny—to offer up to this debate. Therefore, had been left by the previous Government required their contribution has been all but pointless. some assistance to sort out between the two tiers of Mr Betts: The right hon. Gentleman refers to past government. I hope that that is helpful. debates. Can he point to any occasion over the years The Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. when the Opposition Front-Bench spokesperson said Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), referred that the Government were providing too much money particularly to front-loading. As I said to the right hon. to local councils? Can he provide one example of a Member for Don Valley, it is possible to use earmarked Conservative MP saying, “My council’s getting too funds that are in the reserves. I invite the hon. Gentleman’s much money in this settlement”? Committee to look at this again, as there seems to be Grant Shapps: The Chairman of the Communities some misunderstanding. I welcome the fact that he and Local Government Committee is absolutely right: welcomes the end of ring-fencing, which had been my colleagues and I have been reflecting over the past called for very widely across government and the Local few weeks, when the representatives of many local Government Association. Ring-fencing has been un-ring- authorities throughout the country have been to see us, fenced by some £7 billion, and that has given local on what it must have been like to have been in a authorities a lot more flexibility. We have taken 90 separate previous Administration, when one could believe that budgets and combined them into just 10, meaning that money was no object—that one could simply get this local authorities that are savvy and understand that the thing from the money tree and spend it as one wished situation has changed are able to move much more by giving higher and higher settlements to every authority quickly. that came to visit. How wonderful it must have been, The issue of business rates was raised by the hon. but I am afraid that the truth, the reality, has come Member for Sheffield South East and others. There is a home to roost, and once again we are left to sort out the suggestion out there, which is gaining some credibility, mess that Labour has left us with. that if business rates were collected at a higher level 427 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 428

[Grant Shapps] Steve Rotheram: If I can prove that it is 30%, will the Minister give us back the other 29% so that we suffer than the entire local government finance settlement, only a 1% cut, which is the national average? then the difference could be redistributed somewhere down the line. People need to understand that if business Grant Shapps: As the hon. Gentleman knows, the rate collection goes up or down, the amount that goes grant formula—[Interruption.] Members would do well to local authorities is identical; it makes no difference. to listen to this point because it affects many constituencies. The amount that goes to local authorities is set out in The simple fact is that Supporting People is paid for the spending review envelope; it is insured by the Treasury, through the formula grant. Given that we know for a as it were. I hope that that clarifies the situation. fact that there is not a reduction in spending power of more than 8.8% in his constituency, it cannot be the Caroline Flint: There is huge concern up and down case that the Supporting People budget has fallen by the the country that there will be a future Tory policy to claimed 30%, so I take him up on his challenge. localise business rates, which would not deal with the inequalities in terms of opportunities to raise funds My hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie through businesses. Can the right hon. Gentleman assure Elphicke) made the worthwhile point that local authorities me that that will not be a policy of this Government? have been protected from having to raise council tax by the £650 million from central Government. Grant Shapps: I am pleased to be able to provide the The hour is late and I do not want to detain the right hon. Lady with the reassurance that she needs. A House. There is a clear division between authorities that redistributive approach will have to remain in whatever have taken the necessary steps and those such as Manchester system is put in place. I will return to that in a few city council, which yesterday claimed that it has to moments. make a 25% reduction. My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) made several good, intelligent points. He Caroline Flint: Will the right hon. Gentleman give called for a settlement that is more predictable because way? it is provided for more years in a row. As the House knows, we have made a settlement for this year and for Grant Shapps: I was going to conclude, but I will give next year, after which time we intend entirely to reform way on this point. the system to do what everyone has called for, which is to dump the failed redistributive formula grant system Caroline Flint: I am aware of the time and I appreciate in which, as the Chairman of the Select Committee the right hon. Gentleman giving way. The person who pointed out, everybody, even in the good years, complains stated that 25% of the net budget of Manchester city that it has been poor for them. council will go over the next two years was its treasurer—a My hon. Friend provided a very useful list of different statutory officer of Manchester city council. I suggest things that local authorities could do before they start that when the right hon. Gentleman is up there, he savagely cutting the front line, as in the case of some speaks to that gentleman, because I believe that that authorities in the past couple of days. Members will do gentleman is right and that the right hon. Gentleman is well to refer back to that list in Hansard to see all those wrong. different methods. Until an authority has run through each one of the ideas that he presented, it has no right Grant Shapps: Here is a simple fact for the right hon. to be cutting the services of the most vulnerable in Lady: the reduction in spending power over the next society. two years is 15.5%. Yesterday, Manchester city council The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve called a press conference to say what it will not do over Rotheram) made a very impassioned speech. I have seen the next two years. It says that it is going to cut the some of the things that his local authority has done; the budget by 25% over that period, when the reduction is £4.5 million that it saved by cutting some of the senior only 15.5%. management is of course the right way forward. However, To conclude, it is that side of the House and those he says that his council is still incredibly badly off. Let authorities that are failing to protect the most vulnerable me make this simple point to him: while Liverpool is in society. Thank goodness for the coalition Government. experiencing a reduction in its funding formula of 11.3%, my Hertfordshire council is experiencing a reduction of Question put. 16.1%. This Government have gone out of their way to The House divided: Ayes 292, Noes 197. try to protect the most vulnerable, and it is about time it Division No. 198] [7.57 pm was recognised that the spending formula was designed to do that. AYES The hon. Gentleman made another claim that was extraordinary and, as much as he may not realise it, Adams, Nigel Barclay, Stephen untrue—inadvertently, I am sure. He said that his local Afriyie, Adam Barker, Gregory Aldous, Peter Baron, Mr John authority is cutting Supporting People by 30%. If that Alexander, rh Danny Beith, rh Sir Alan is true, his local authority is getting it wrong. Supporting Amess, Mr David Bellingham, Mr Henry People is one of the budgets that we have protected way Andrew, Stuart Benyon, Richard more than the general picture. There is a reduction of Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Berry, Jake less than 1% in cash terms on average in the Supporting Bacon, Mr Richard Bingham, Andrew People budget over the next four years. I will give way to Bagshawe, Ms Louise Binley, Mr Brian the hon. Gentleman so that he can put pressure on his Baker, Norman Birtwistle, Gordon local authority not to slash it, given that the Supporting Baldry, Tony Blackman, Bob People budget is largely protected at national level. Baldwin, Harriett Blackwood, Nicola 429 Local Government Finance9 FEBRUARY 2011 Local Government Finance 430

Blunt, Mr Crispin Gauke, Mr David Lilley, rh Mr Peter Russell, Bob Boles, Nick Gibb, Mr Nick Lloyd, Stephen Rutley, David Bone, Mr Peter Gilbert, Stephen Lopresti, Jack Sanders, Mr Adrian Bottomley, Sir Peter Goldsmith, Zac Lord, Jonathan Sandys, Laura Bradley, Karen Goodwill, Mr Robert Loughton, Tim Scott, Mr Lee Brady, Mr Graham Gove, rh Michael Lumley, Karen Selous, Andrew Bray, Angie Graham, Richard Macleod, Mary Shapps, rh Grant Bridgen, Andrew Grant, Mrs Helen Main, Mrs Anne Sharma, Alok Brine, Mr Steve Gray, Mr James McCartney, Jason Shepherd, Mr Richard Brokenshire, James Grayling, rh Chris McCartney, Karl Simmonds, Mark Brooke, Annette Green, Damian McIntosh, Miss Anne Simpson, Mr Keith Browne, Mr Jeremy Greening, Justine McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Skidmore, Chris Bruce, Fiona Griffiths, Andrew McPartland, Stephen Smith, Miss Chloe Bruce, rh Malcolm Gummer, Ben McVey, Esther Smith, Henry Buckland, Mr Robert Gyimah, Mr Sam Menzies, Mark Smith, Julian Burley, Mr Aidan Halfon, Robert Mercer, Patrick Soubry, Anna Burns, Mr Simon Hames, Duncan Metcalfe, Stephen Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Burstow, Paul Hammond, Stephen Miller, Maria Spencer, Mr Mark Burt, Alistair Hancock, Matthew Mills, Nigel Stanley, rh Sir John Burt, Lorely Hancock, Mr Mike Milton, Anne Stevenson, John Byles, Dan Hands, Greg Moore, rh Michael Stewart, Iain Cable, rh Vince Harper, Mr Mark Morgan, Nicky Stewart, Rory Cairns, Alun Harrington, Richard Morris, Anne Marie Streeter, Mr Gary Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harris, Rebecca Morris, David Stride, Mel Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hart, Simon Morris, James Stuart, Mr Graham Carmichael, Neil Harvey, Nick Mosley, Stephen Stunell, Andrew Chishti, Rehman Hayes, Mr John Mowat, David Swales, Ian Chope, Mr Christopher Heald, Mr Oliver Munt, Tessa Swinson, Jo Clappison, Mr James Heath, Mr David Murray, Sheryll Swire, rh Mr Hugo Clark, rh Greg Heaton-Harris, Chris Murrison, Dr Andrew Syms, Mr Robert Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hemming, John Neill, Robert Tapsell, Sir Peter Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Henderson, Gordon Newmark, Mr Brooks Thurso, John Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hendry, Charles Newton, Sarah Timpson, Mr Edward Collins, Damian Herbert, rh Nick Nokes, Caroline Tomlinson, Justin Colvile, Oliver Hinds, Damian Norman, Jesse Tredinnick, David Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hoban, Mr Mark Nuttall, Mr David Truss, Elizabeth Crabb, Stephen Hollingbery, George O’Brien, Mr Stephen Turner, Mr Andrew Crockart, Mike Hollobone, Mr Philip Offord, Mr Matthew Uppal, Paul Crouch, Tracey Hopkins, Kris Ollerenshaw, Eric Vaizey, Mr Edward Davey, Mr Edward Horwood, Martin Opperman, Guy Vickers, Martin Davies, David T. C. Howell, John Ottaway, Richard Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa (Monmouth) Huhne, rh Chris Parish, Neil Walker, Mr Charles Davies, Glyn Hunter, Mark Patel, Priti Davies, Philip Huppert, Dr Julian Pawsey, Mark Wallace, Mr Ben de Bois, Nick Hurd, Mr Nick Penrose, John Walter, Mr Robert Dinenage, Caroline Jackson, Mr Stewart Percy, Andrew Watkinson, Angela Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot Perry, Claire Weatherley, Mike Dorries, Nadine Javid, Sajid Phillips, Stephen Webb, Steve Doyle-Price, Jackie Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pickles, rh Mr Eric Wharton, James Drax, Richard Johnson, Gareth Pincher, Christopher Wheeler, Heather Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Prisk, Mr Mark White, Chris Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, Mr David Pritchard, Mark Whittaker, Craig Ellis, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus Randall, rh Mr John Whittingdale, Mr John Ellison, Jane Kawczynski, Daniel Reckless, Mark Williams, Mr Mark Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kelly, Chris Redwood, rh Mr John Williams, Stephen Elphicke, Charlie Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Rees-Mogg, Jacob Williamson, Gavin Eustice, George Kirby, Simon Reevell, Simon Wilson, Mr Rob Evans, Graham Knight, rh Mr Greg Reid, Mr Alan Wollaston, Dr Sarah Evans, Jonathan Lancaster, Mark Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Wright, Simon Evennett, Mr David Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Yeo, Mr Tim Fabricant, Michael Latham, Pauline Robertson, Hugh Young, rh Sir George Farron, Tim Leadsom, Andrea Robertson, Mr Laurence Featherstone, Lynne Lee, Jessica Rosindell, Andrew Tellers for the Ayes: Field, Mr Mark Lee, Dr Phillip Rudd, Amber Mr Shailesh Vara and Foster, rh Mr Don Lefroy, Jeremy Ruffley, Mr David Norman Lamb Fox,rhDrLiam Leigh, Mr Edward Freeman, George Leslie, Charlotte NOES Freer, Mike Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Abbott, Ms Diane Ali, Rushanara Fullbrook, Lorraine Lewis, Brandon Abrahams, Debbie Anderson, Mr David Gale, Mr Roger Lewis, Dr Julian Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Austin, Ian Garnier, Mr Edward Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Garnier, Mark Lidington, rh Mr David Alexander, Heidi Bailey, Mr Adrian 431 Local Government Finance 9 FEBRUARY 2011 432

Bain, Mr William Goodman, Helen Phillipson, Bridget Stringer, Graham Balls, rh Ed Green, Kate Pound, Stephen Stuart, Ms Gisela Banks, Gordon Griffith, Nia Qureshi, Yasmin Thomas, Mr Gareth Barron, rh Mr Kevin Gwynne, Andrew Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Trickett, Jon Bayley, Hugh Hain, rh Mr Peter Reeves, Rachel Turner, Karl Beckett, rh Margaret Hamilton, Mr David Reynolds, Emma Twigg, Stephen Begg, Dame Anne Hamilton, Fabian Reynolds, Jonathan Umunna, Mr Chuka Benn, rh Hilary Hanson, rh Mr David Riordan, Mrs Linda Vaz, Valerie Benton, Mr Joe Harman, rh Ms Harriet Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Walley, Joan Berger, Luciana Healey, rh John Rotheram, Steve Watts, Mr Dave Betts, Mr Clive Hendrick, Mark Roy, Lindsay Whitehead, Dr Alan Blackman-Woods, Roberta Heyes, David Ruane, Chris Wicks, rh Malcolm Blears, rh Hazel Hillier, Meg Seabeck, Alison Williams, Hywel Blenkinsop, Tom Hodge, rh Margaret Shannon, Jim Williamson, Chris Blomfield, Paul Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Sharma, Mr Virendra Wilson, Phil Blunkett, rh Mr David Hoey, Kate Sheerman, Mr Barry Winnick, Mr David Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hood, Mr Jim Sheridan, Jim Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hunt, Tristram Simpson, David Wood, Mike Brown, Mr Russell Irranca-Davies, Huw Skinner, Mr Dennis Woodcock, John Bryant, Chris Jackson, Glenda Slaughter, Mr Andy Wright, David Buck, Ms Karen Johnson, Diana Smith, rh Mr Andrew Wright, Mr Iain Burden, Richard Jones, Graham Smith, Nick Burnham, rh Andy Jones, Mr Kevan Smith, Owen Tellers for the Noes: Cairns, David Jones, Susan Elan Soulsby, Sir Peter Mark Tami and Campbell, Mr Alan Jowell, rh Tessa Spellar, rh Mr John Angela Smith Chapman, Mrs Jenny Joyce, Eric Clark, Katy Keeley, Barbara Question accordingly agreed to. Clarke, rh Mr Tom Kendall, Liz Coaker, Vernon Khan, rh Sadiq Resolved, Connarty, Michael Lammy, rh Mr David That the Local Government Finance Report (England) 2011-12 Cooper, Rosie Lavery, Ian (House of Commons Paper No. 748), which was laid before this Cooper, rh Yvette Lazarowicz, Mark House on 31 January, be approved. Corbyn, Jeremy Leslie, Chris Crausby, Mr David Lewis, Mr Ivan Creagh, Mary Lloyd, Tony LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE Creasy, Stella Long, Naomi Resolved, Cryer, John Love, Mr Andrew That the Limitation of Council Tax and Precepts (Alternative Cunningham, Alex Lucas, Ian Notional Amounts) Report (England) 2011-12 (House of Commons Cunningham, Mr Jim MacShane, rh Mr Denis Paper No. 774), which was laid before this House on 31 January, Cunningham, Tony Mactaggart, Fiona be approved.—(Mr Dunne.) Dakin, Nic Mahmood, Shabana Danczuk, Simon Mann, John David, Mr Wayne Marsden, Mr Gordon Business without Debate Davidson, Mr Ian McCabe, Steve Davies, Geraint McCann, Mr Michael De Piero, Gloria McCarthy, Kerry DELEGATED LEGISLATION Denham, rh Mr John McClymont, Gregg Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Dobbin, Jim McCrea, Dr William Order No. 118(6)), Dobson, rh Frank McDonnell, John Docherty, Thomas McFadden, rh Mr Pat IMMIGRATION Dodds, rh Mr Nigel McGovern, Alison Dowd, Jim McKechin, Ann That the draft Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Order 2011, Doyle, Gemma McKinnell, Catherine which was laid before this House on 24 January, be approved.— (Mr Dunne.) Dromey, Jack Meacher, rh Mr Michael Eagle, Ms Angela Meale, Mr Alan Madam Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of Eagle, Maria Mearns, Ian the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred Efford, Clive Michael, rh Alun until Wednesday 16 February (Standing Order No. 41A). Elliott, Julie Miliband, rh David Engel, Natascha Mitchell, Austin Evans, Chris Morden, Jessica EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Field, rh Mr Frank Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Fitzpatrick, Jim Morris, Grahame M. Order No. 119(11)), Flello, Robert (Easington) Flint, rh Caroline Munn, Meg TERRORIST FINANCE TRACKING PROGRAM Fovargue, Yvonne Murphy, rh Mr Jim Francis, Dr Hywel Murphy, rh Paul That this House takes note of European Union Documents No. 11048/10, relating to a draft agreement, No. 11173/10, relating Gapes, Mike Murray, Ian to a draft Council Decision on the signature of the agreement, Gardiner, Barry Nandy, Lisa and No. 11172/10, relating to a draft Council Decision on the Gilmore, Sheila Nash, Pamela conclusion of the agreement between the European Union and Glass, Pat Onwurah, Chi the United States of America on the processing and transfer of Glindon, Mrs Mary Owen, Albert financial messaging data from the European Union to the United Goggins, rh Paul Pearce, Teresa States for the purposes of the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program; 433 Business without Debate 9 FEBRUARY 2011 434 agrees that the programme is an extremely important tool in the Domestic Heating Oil global counter-terrorism effort, providing valuable contributions to numerous high profile cases; and notes that the programme has Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House achieved an appropriate balance between counter-terrorism and do now adjourn.—(Mr Dunne.) data protection.—(Mr Dunne.) Madam Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of 8.12 pm the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): Mine is a until Wednesday 16 February (Standing Order No. 41A). large constituency. I have urban areas to the north-east of my constituency and a very large rural area running PETITION right up to the Cumbrian border. It includes two areas of outstanding natural beauty and many areas of special Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance scientific interest. Very many of my constituents are “off gas” and rely on heating oil and bottled gas, and some of these would be classified as the rural poor or 8.10 pm living in fuel poverty. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I wish to present I have been made aware in recent months that there a petition opposing the proposed withdrawal of the are issues in the domestic oil fuel market—rising prices mobility component of disability living allowance from and a lack of regulation and competition—but it has those living in state-funded care homes. The petition is become clear from the level of constituency contact and signed by 135 members of Chippenham Gateway club from the level of desperation expressed that a crisis has in my constituency, a volunteer-run social club for those been building up since summer last year. with long-term learning difficulties or mental health problems. Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Does my The petition states: hon. Friend agree that in a constituency such as mine, The Petition of members, volunteers and supporters of the which is a rural constituency next door to hers, many Chippenham Gateway Club, people do not have a choice about whether to use oil, Declares that the Petitioners are opposed to the Government’s because there is no access to gas or another alternative proposal to stop paying the Mobility Component of the Disability fuel? Living Allowance for disabled adults in residential care; and notes their concern that this proposal would have a devastating impact Pat Glass: I agree, and that is true in many constituencies. on the Chippenham Gateway Club and similar clubs for members When I contacted the office of the Secretary of State with learning difficulties/mental health issues throughout the for Energy and Climate Change on this issue in early UK. December, I was told that it did not believe that there The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons was a problem and that it did not intend to do anything urges the Government not to stop paying the Mobility Component about it. This contrasts sharply with the experience of of the Disability Living Allowance for disabled adults in residential my constituents. Mr Kimber, who contacted me on care. 6 December, told me that the price of heating oil back And the Petitioners remain, etc. in early October was 44p a litre. He said: [P000884] “Yesterday I obtained a quote online and was shocked to see the price had risen to 65 pence per litre. Today I obtained another quote from the same company and the price has gone up to 79 pence a litre today. How can this be now that the roads are free of snow and passable in nearly all areas locally?”

Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): My constituency is similar to my hon. Friend’s and also has a rural part to it. People have told me not only that the price has gone up, but that an extra transport cost is loaded on if people want delivery within a short period of time. Pat Glass: Absolutely. Indeed, another constituent, Mrs Green, told me: “The cost of heating oil is now nearly 100% higher than just two months ago yet oil prices have increased by just 10%. How can this be justified?” The answer is that it simply cannot be justified. Indeed, when I and other Members started to ask questions about this issue, I was contacted by a number of people working in the heating oil industry who told me that their employers were telling them to refuse to accept orders of less than 1,000 litres. That meant that members of the public were being refused deliveries unless they were prepared to pay £800, plus the cost of delivery, and let us remember that this was just before Christmas.

Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. Does she agree that that also applies in rural Somerset? We even have oil co-operatives 435 Domestic Heating Oil9 FEBRUARY 2011 Domestic Heating Oil 436

[Tessa Munt] Pat Glass: I am happy that the Minister will be able to speak for himself when the time comes. No doubt he in rural Somerset, members of which were running out will give us his wisdom on that. of heating fuel as the winter months came on and the Customers are in the worst possible situation; it is a weather got bad, yet they were being charged the same perfect storm. The market is completely unregulated. excessively high prices when they were taking the trouble Added to that is a lack of competition in the market, to drive on snowy roads to collect the oil, in containers where many suppliers are owned by just one or two that they had to purchase for £6 or £7 a piece. Therefore, companies, and suppliers are prepared to charge exorbitant even people who were not paying delivery charges were prices simply because they can. On top of all that is the paying the equivalent sum, which did not include delivery. fact that we have just had the coldest winter in living memory. Pat Glass: Absolutely. The biggest supplier is DCC Energy, an Irish company Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD):. I also that says it supplies a quarter of this country’s domestic congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate and market. It owns 41 heating and oil distribution companies on reiterating how important it is to rural areas. The and five price comparison websites. The websites of problem that she described, where oil companies deliver those 41 wholly DCC-owned companies state that they much larger quantities, was compounded by the fact are independent, and none discloses the extent of DCC’s that a lot of them were not telling the customers that hold on the British market. DCC has recently been on a they were doing so until the invoice arrived. People who spending spree, buying up regional companies. It owns were expecting bills of £200, which is bad enough, were five price comparison websites, including BoilerJuice. then hit with bills of £800. When I and others first raised this issue in the House, The Sunday Times carried out an investigation. It found Pat Glass: Absolutely, and I am happy to give way to that BoilerJuice, which is owned by DCC, only compared hon. Members from across the House, because this prices between DCC-owned companies, and that its debate is about an issue that affects all our constituencies. so-called best deals were up to 65% higher than those of When I first started to investigate the domestic heating genuine independents. If that is not a deliberate intention oil industry, it became clear to me that it operates in a to mislead customers, I am not sure what is. Since The completely unregulated market, where suppliers can do Sunday Times outed BoilerJuice, prices have dropped exactly what they choose. A number of takeovers and by as much as 63%, which DCC has said was due to mergers in recent years have led to the supply industry “fluctuating market prices”, but neither The Sunday being owned by two or three companies. All that has Times nor I could find anything fluctuating in the happened quietly, without reference to the Office of market other than DCC’s panic. Fair Trading or the Competition Commission. Prices Energy experts have advised me that DCC might are being driven up not by world shortages or global actually control up to 50% of this country’s domestic increases in the price of oil, although there is some of heating oil market. GB Oils, another big company that that. Rather, prices in this country have gone up by is seemingly independent, is in fact a subsidiary of DCC 100% in a very short space of time largely because Energy. NWF Fuels is another big player. It markets suppliers have been clearly taking advantage of people 14 different brands, including Pace, Fuelcare and WCF in desperate need during the coldest winter in a generation. Fuels. On the surface, this looks like a market in which Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I am there are many suppliers and in which competition will grateful to the hon. Lady not only for allowing me to work to keep down prices, but it is quite the opposite. intervene, but for bringing this issue to the House. Does she agree that one of the fundamental issues in this Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The hon. Lady has debate is the fact that people in rural areas often do not been very generous in giving way to Members on both have a choice? The problem with the market is that sides of the Chamber. She said that she wanted to get people do not have a choice over either the oil that they input from right across the House and across the United use or the suppliers available to them. Kingdom, and I should like to give her an example from Northern Ireland. Oil comes through the port of Belfast Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con) rose— and is then farmed out to all the different areas across the Province. It is the same oil, yet the price fluctuates Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. between £20 and £30 per 800 litres. Does she agree that The hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) that is another example of why regulation is much should get a word in edgeways before she gives way to needed? another Member, if only to help me remember whose Adjournment debate this actually is. Pat Glass: I certainly do. Pat Glass: I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady, and I want to give way to as many Members as possible. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): The whole House will be concerned by the points that Sarah Newton: I appreciate the hon. Lady’s generosity my hon. Friend is making, not only about prices and in giving way to so many of us, because this debate is the way in which these companies operate, but about clearly about a huge problem across the country. I the fact that they seem not to have been considered at represent a part of Cornwall where, just as the hon. all by the Competition Commission? Does she intend to Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) said, refer the matter to the commission? there is no choice for people who are off gas. There is no choice of distributors, given what has been happening Pat Glass: I want to hear what the Minister has to in the market. say. Then I will make a decision on that. 437 Domestic Heating Oil9 FEBRUARY 2011 Domestic Heating Oil 438

In its recent investigation, The Sunday Times found Tessa Munt: I would like to draw attention to some of that, on any given day, those price comparison sites my constituents who took the trouble to join an oil quoted exactly the same price, right down to two decimal co-operative in a rural area, but still got hit by this points. DCC and the other companies that control large problem. I was contacted, and I would like the Minister parts of the market deny that they are exploiting their to look at the letter that I forwarded to his office. It was market share unfairly to raise prices, or that a cartel is from a couple of pensioners who wrote to point out operating to fix prices, but I suggest that the Minister that they would have had to spend between three and look at the evidence. If he does, he will be able to draw three and half months’-worth of their pension money his own conclusions, as I did. on fuel over the year. That makes a mockery of what is As a new Member, I have been really pleased that we happening in this market. can come to the House and raise issues such as these, Charles Hendry: I will certainly look into those matters, when we see a clear injustice in the market, and that and I hope that the hon. Lady has also referred them to they are taken up by the press. These debates are a really the Office of Fair Trading, because that would provide powerful tool. Once I and other hon. Members started exactly the sort of evidence that it is looking for to to raise this issue and the press picked up on it, I was contribute to its investigation of this market. contacted by many people from all across the country. Their interest is echoed by the interest shown here I have been extremely concerned about the many tonight. People were contacting me from places as far representations that I have received from hon. Members apart as south Kent and Northern Ireland. This is not on both sides of the House over the past few weeks, just about my constituency; it is about all our constituencies. which clearly showed me that that the market was not working as we would expect it to do. People who could I am grateful that the Government have finally agreed not afford to pay those bills simply had to make a that there is a problem with this market. They have choice about whether to go without heating or without reluctantly and, I have to say, tardily referred these matters something else at a very difficult time of the year. to the Office of Fair Trading. There are several questions that I would like the Minister to answer today. When I Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab) rose— and others contacted the Department in early December to ask what it intended to do about this, why were we told Charles Hendry: I will give way now, but not again, as that the Department did not believe there was a problem I am keen to address the points raised in the debate. and that it did not intend to do anything about it? Why did it take a crisis and investigation by the press before Alex Cunningham: I am grateful to the Minister. the Minister was prepared to refer this to the Office of Millions of people have been taken out of fuel poverty Fair Trading? Will he ensure that I and other hon. over the last decade or so, with the help of a massive Members who have raised these issues are able to feed investment, but it strikes me that with the demise of the into the OFT investigation? When does he intend to Warm Front scheme in particular, the Government are regulate this market either by extending the role of now doing less about fuel poverty. I hope that the Ofgem or by creating a regulator for the domestic oil Minister will reassure us that more will be done in and gas industry? Finally, what messages can I give to future. the many people who have contacted me and other MPs Charles Hendry: I am sorry that that introduces a about the actions that the Government intend to take political note into a debate that has been non-partisan now and in the future to ensure that they are exploited thus far. The Labour Government were committed by no further? law to remove all vulnerable households from fuel poverty by 2010—and their record was one of dismal failure. In 8.25 pm fact, the number was up by 3 million on the previous The Minister of State, Department of Energy and year. That is not exactly a record on the basis of which Climate Change (Charles Hendry): I congratulate the the hon. Gentleman should be preaching to us. hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) on Underlying many of the complaints are concerns securing this debate and on the persistence that she has about the challenges of supplying energy to rural shown in raising this matter over a number of weeks, both communities, and about whether the current market before Christmas and subsequently. I thank her for the structure provides the reassurance that consumers can correspondence I have received from her. She is absolutely get fuels for heating at a price they can afford. There is a right that this matter affects not just one part but every specific commitment in the coalition programme to part of the United Kingdom—very much including help those in remote rural areas with their fuel costs, as Northern Ireland, because of the number of off-gas well as to extend protection and support to off-grid grid customers who live there. Every part of the country energy consumers. is affected, which is why we take the issue so seriously. As a shadow Minister last year, I raised many of the Speaking as a Member with a heavily rural constituency, issues that the hon. Lady has raised now, and I was told I am sure that the hon. Lady will understand that I am that this was how the market had always worked. I am sympathetic to the plight of many off-grid energy pleased that as a Minister, I have now been able to act consumers—many living in rural areas, but not exclusively on some of those concerns. so—who were hit hard by high domestic heating prices As I noted in the fuel poverty debate in January, a and serious supply problems during the severe weather significant amount of concern has been expressed by this Christmas. Many of them are fuel-poor, as the hon. the public, as well as by this House, about the domestic Lady says, and as the hon. Member for Banff and heating oil market. That is clear from the numerous Buchan (Dr Whiteford) said, many have no choice but parliamentary questions on the subject, and the issue to be off the gas grid because the gas grid simply does has featured prominently in my postbag both as a not exist where they live. Minister and as a constituency Member of Parliament. 439 Domestic Heating Oil9 FEBRUARY 2011 Domestic Heating Oil 440

[Charles Hendry] of the OFT, on 19 January asking him to bring forward its competition and consumer study of off-grid energy. As we all know, the price of heating oil is influenced The issues involved became particularly acute during by a range of factors. They include refinery capacity, the immediate run-up to Christmas. When I tried to stock levels, distribution costs, retail margins and exchange order oil for my own home in early December the price rates. Crude oil prices—which increased by 24% between was 40p a litre. Three weeks later it was 70p a litre. The the end of September the end of January—and seasonal severe weather compounded the problems, making a factors also play a role. There were additional costs this difficult situation potentially catastrophic. We owe a winter because of the extra overtime that resulted from debt of gratitude to the delivery companies and their our relaxation of drivers’ hours. drivers, who worked long hours, often in difficult conditions, The United Kingdom has traditionally operated an to try to ensure that they reached every home that was open and competitive market for oil and petroleum running out of oil before Christmas. They did not quite products, which we believe provides the best long-term reach everyone, but they improved the position massively. guarantee of competitive prices for the consumer. In the I also suggested to John Fingleton that the study light of that, the Government cannot and should not should explore longer-term consumer issues such as seek to control or influence oil prices, but safeguards exist lifetime payback, consumer standards, and labelling for through the Office of Fair Trading and the Competition alternative energy sources or supplies. Such a study Commission to ensure that competition is fair. would provide an independent assessment of the off-grid As an independent and professional organisation, the market, and would be immensely helpful in establishing OFT plays the leading role in promoting and protecting what further action might be necessary to ensure that it consumer interests throughout the United Kingdom, worked properly. ensuring that businesses are fair and competitive. Its Following my letter and other discussions with my tools to carry out that work are the powers granted to it Department, I was pleased when the OFT announced under consumer and competition legislation. It has a on 25 January that it had brought forward its study to wide range of enforcement tools at its disposal. For allow time to consider any recommendations before the instance, under the Competition Act 1998 it can impose next winter, and in the light of increasing public concerns heavy financial penalties on companies guilty of breaching about aspects of the market. There will be a market competition law, and can refer them to the Competition study under powers granted by the Enterprise Act 2002 Commission for closer examination. I urge Members to to examine all issues concerning energy supply to off-grid raise their concerns and those of their constituents customers. The OFT is now consulting on the precise directly with the OFT if they have evidence of market terms and scope of its study before the investigation abuse. I know that many Members have already done itself formally begins in March. so. They should note that the OFT never confirms or The OFT proposes that the study should cover the denies the existence of investigations of specific companies, whole of the UK, and has suggested a number of so that it can do its work as independently as possible. themes including the following: how well competition provides choice for consumers at a local and regional On 21 January I made a written ministerial statement level, in respect of which the monopolistic issues to on the off-grid energy market. I noted that the OFT had which the hon. Lady referred are clearly relevant; whether been consulting on its annual plan to help to determine the terms and conditions of supply provide consumers its work programme for 2011-12. That included proposals with clear information, competitive prices and fair terms to prioritise markets affected by high, rising and and conditions, which should include addressing the volatile commodity prices. The off-gas grid energy market issues the hon. Lady raised in relation to websites which is clearly one such affected market. I am keen for the the public would assume are independent; and the reasons for the high prices and supply issues affecting experience of customers. The OFT proposes to survey domestic consumers to be investigated thoroughly by an the views of off-grid energy users around the UK. In independent professional authority such as the OFT. addition to the Department of Energy and Climate The recent winter also raised various questions about Change, the Scottish Government, the Welsh Assembly the minimum volume for heating oil orders. I thank the Government, the Northern Ireland Executive, the hon. Lady for the attention that she has given to that Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the issue. Bulk supply by tanker is the most economic form Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs of delivery for heating oil. According to the Federation and trading standards departments will be involved in of Petroleum Suppliers, the meters fitted to most road this work, to ensure that the full range of concerns are tankers used to deliver heating oil have a minimum taken properly into account. delivery volume of 500 litres, and below that volume the The OFT will work closely with Ofgem where issues meters are not sufficiently accurate to meet regulation overlap with those within Ofgem’s jurisdiction. While on weights and measures. A while ago, the hon. Lady the study’s focus is not specifically on access to, or use expressed concern to me about a requirement to take of, the gas and electricity networks, the OFT will be 1,000 litres. That should undoubtedly be investigated, working closely with Ofgem to assess the interaction because it does not appear to be borne out by our between access to networks and the development of the technical investigations. Pre-packaged smaller volumes off-grid renewables market. The OFT proposes that the of heating oil in containers are available, although the market study should consider the supply of off-grid price per litre is often significantly higher than tanker energy, to cover a wide range of domestic energy sources delivery prices, owing to the additional packaging, storage including heating oil, liquefied petroleum gas and renewable and distribution costs. energy from a range of sources. As I said in my written ministerial statement, in As the Competition Commission completed an in-depth response to the OFT’s consultation on its annual work investigation of the LPG market in 2006, with market programme I wrote to John Fingleton, the chief executive orders from 2009 to enable switching between suppliers, 441 Domestic Heating Oil9 FEBRUARY 2011 Domestic Heating Oil 442 the OFT also proposes to focus on the effect of those study is distinct from an investigation. A market study orders so far. The OFT retains an ongoing statutory is not about any particular company or business, but duty to consider from time to time whether the orders instead considers the overall market structure. Investigations are being complied with. Market studies by the OFT involve into specific companies will be prompted by direct an analysis of a particular market with the aim of evidence of market abuse, and be undertaken separately. identifying and addressing any aspects of market failure, I therefore encourage hon. Members on both sides of from competition issues to consumer detriment, and the House to participate actively in the investigation, the effect of Government regulations. This can result in and to raise their constituents’ concerns directly with a range of different outcomes. There can be enforcement the OFT. We have listened to the concerns expressed action by the OFT. There can be a reference to the from every part of this country, from every political Competition Commission. There can be recommendations party and from all types of different communities, and for changes in laws and regulations. There can be we have decided that a full investigation into the way recommendations to regulators, self-regulatory bodies this market is working is now appropriate. and others to consider changes to their rules. There can I am very pleased that the OFT is going to take be recommendations to specific businesses. There can forward that work formally. I believe that it will enable be campaigns to promote consumer education and us to ensure that we can learn from the problems awareness. Alternatively, a clean bill of health can be experienced this winter and go forward into next winter issued. It is at this point that we will need to decide with a market that is more fit for purpose, so that all our whether additional regulatory powers are necessary. constituents can benefit as we would wish them to do. The consultation by the OFT closes on 28 February. Question put and agreed to. The OFT has asked to receive representations from interested parties on the planning scope and issues for the study before formally carrying out its investigation 8.39 pm of the off-grid energy market. I re-iterate that a market House adjourned. 443 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 444

Deferred Divisions Gilbert, Stephen Lumley, Karen Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Macleod, Mary Glen, John MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan FINANCIAL STABILISATION MECHANISM Goodwill, Mr Robert Mahmood, Mr Khalid That this House takes note of European Union Documents Graham, Richard May, rh Mrs Theresa No. 9606/10, relating to a Council Regulation establishing a Grant, Mrs Helen McIntosh, Miss Anne European financial stabilisation mechanism, No. 12119/10, relating Grayling, rh Chris McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick to a draft amending budget No. 7 to the General Budget 2010— Green, Damian McPartland, Stephen Statement of expenditure by Section—Section III—Commission, Greening, Justine McVey, Esther and No. 17361/10, Commission Communication on the European Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Menzies, Mark Financial Stabilisation Mechanism; supports the Government’s Griffiths, Andrew Mercer, Patrick view that whilst it is in the interests of all Member States to Gyimah, Mr Sam Metcalfe, Stephen support a stable and fully functioning euro area, financial assistance for euro area Member States should primarily be provided by Halfon, Robert Miller, Maria other euro area Member States; and supports the Government’s Hames, Duncan Mills, Nigel position that the United Kingdom should not be required to Hammond, rh Mr Philip Milton, Anne contribute to the European Stability Mechanism that will permanently Hammond, Stephen Moore, rh Michael replace both the European Financial Stability Mechanism and Hancock, Matthew Morgan, Nicky the European Financial Stability Facility. Hancock, Mr Mike Morris, Anne Marie The House divided: Ayes 297, Noes 45. Hands, Greg Morris, James Harper, Mr Mark Mosley, Stephen Division No. 194] Harrington, Richard Mowat, David Harris, Rebecca Mulholland, Greg AYES Hart, Simon Munt, Tessa Adams, Nigel Cable, rh Vince Harvey, Nick Murray, Sheryll Afriyie, Adam Cairns, Alun Heald, Mr Oliver Murrison, Dr Andrew Aldous, Peter Cameron, rh Mr David Heath, Mr David Neill, Robert Alexander, rh Danny Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Heaton-Harris, Chris Newmark, Mr Brooks Amess, Mr David Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hemming, John Newton, Sarah Andrew, Stuart Carmichael, Neil Henderson, Gordon Nokes, Caroline Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Chishti, Rehman Hendry, Charles Norman, Jesse Bacon, Mr Richard Clark, rh Greg Herbert, rh Nick O’Brien, Mr Stephen Bagshawe, Ms Louise Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hermon, Lady Offord, Mr Matthew Baker, Norman Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hinds, Damian Ollerenshaw, Eric Baldry, Tony Collins, Damian Hoban, Mr Mark Opperman, Guy Baldwin, Harriett Colvile, Oliver Hollingbery, George Osborne, rh Mr George Barclay, Stephen Cox, Mr Geoffrey Horwood, Martin Ottaway, Richard Barker, Gregory Crabb, Stephen Hosie, Stewart Parish, Neil Barwell, Gavin Crouch, Tracey Howarth, Mr Gerald Paterson, rh Mr Owen Bebb, Guto Davey, Mr Edward Howell, John Pawsey, Mark Beith, rh Sir Alan Davidson, Mr Ian Hughes, rh Simon Penrose, John Bellingham, Mr Henry Davies, David T. C. Huhne, rh Chris Percy, Andrew Benyon, Richard (Monmouth) Hunter, Mark Perry, Claire Beresford, Sir Paul Davies, Glyn Huppert, Dr Julian Phillips, Stephen Berry, Jake de Bois, Nick Hurd, Mr Nick Pickles, rh Mr Eric Bingham, Andrew Dinenage, Caroline Jackson, Mr Stewart Pincher, Christopher Binley, Mr Brian Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot Prisk, Mr Mark Birtwistle, Gordon Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Johnson, Gareth Pugh, John Blackman, Bob Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Joseph Randall, rh Mr John Blackwood, Nicola Doyle-Price, Jackie Jones, Andrew Rees-Mogg, Jacob Blunt, Mr Crispin Duddridge, James Jones, Mr David Reevell, Simon Boles, Nick Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, Mr Marcus Reid, Mr Alan Bottomley, Sir Peter Edwards, Jonathan Kawczynski, Daniel Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Bradley, Karen Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Brake, Tom Ellwood, Mr Tobias Laing, Mrs Eleanor Robertson, Angus Bray, Angie Elphicke, Charlie Lamb, Norman Robertson, Hugh Brazier, Mr Julian Evans, Graham Lancaster, Mark Robertson, Mr Laurence Bridgen, Andrew Evans, Jonathan Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rogerson, Dan Brine, Mr Steve Evennett, Mr David Latham, Pauline Rosindell, Andrew Brokenshire, James Fabricant, Michael Laws, rh Mr David Rudd, Amber Brooke, Annette Fallon, Michael Leadsom, Andrea Russell, Bob Browne, Mr Jeremy Farron, Tim Lee, Jessica Rutley, David Bruce, Fiona Featherstone, Lynne Lee, Dr Phillip Sanders, Mr Adrian Bruce, rh Malcolm Field, Mr Mark Lefroy, Jeremy Sandys, Laura Buckland, Mr Robert Foster, rh Mr Don Lewis, Brandon Scott, Mr Lee Burley, Mr Aidan Fox,rhDrLiam Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Selous, Andrew Burns, Conor Freeman, George Lidington, rh Mr David Shapps, rh Grant Burns, Mr Simon Fullbrook, Lorraine Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Sharma, Alok Burrowes, Mr David Garnier, Mr Edward Long, Naomi Shelbrooke, Alec Burstow, Paul Garnier, Mark Lopresti, Jack Simmonds, Mark Burt, Alistair Gauke, Mr David Lord, Jonathan Simpson, Mr Keith Burt, Lorely George, Andrew Loughton, Tim Skidmore, Chris Byles, Dan Gibb, Mr Nick Lucas, Caroline Smith, Miss Chloe 445 Deferred Divisions9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 446

Smith, Henry Vickers, Martin Andrew, Stuart Cable, rh Vince Smith, Julian Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Cairns, Alun Soubry, Anna Walker, Mr Robin Austin, Ian Cairns, David Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Wallace, Mr Ben Bacon, Mr Richard Cameron, rh Mr David Spencer, Mr Mark Walter, Mr Robert Bagshawe, Ms Louise Campbell, Mr Alan Stanley, rh Sir John Ward, Mr David Bailey, Mr Adrian Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Stevenson, John Watkinson, Angela Bain, Mr William Campbell, Mr Ronnie Stewart, Bob Weatherley, Mike Baker, Norman Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Stewart, Iain Webb, Steve Baldry, Tony Carmichael, Neil Stewart, Rory Weir, Mr Mike Baldwin, Harriett Carswell, Mr Douglas Streeter, Mr Gary Wharton, James Balls, rh Ed Cash, Mr William Stride, Mel Wheeler, Heather Banks, Gordon Chapman, Mrs Jenny Stuart, Mr Graham White, Chris Barclay, Stephen Chishti, Rehman Swales, Ian Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Barker, Gregory Chope, Mr Christopher Swinson, Jo Whittingdale, Mr John Baron, Mr John Clappison, Mr James Swire, rh Mr Hugo Willetts, rh Mr David Barron, rh Mr Kevin Clark, rh Greg Syms, Mr Robert Williams, Hywel Barwell, Gavin Clark, Katy Tapsell, Sir Peter Williams, Mr Mark Bayley, Hugh Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Thurso, John Williams, Roger Bebb, Guto Clarke, rh Mr Tom Timpson, Mr Edward Williams, Stephen Beckett, rh Margaret Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Tomlinson, Justin Williamson, Gavin Begg, Dame Anne Clwyd, rh Ann Tredinnick, David Wilson, Mr Rob Beith, rh Sir Alan Coaker, Vernon Truss, Elizabeth Wishart, Pete Bell, Sir Stuart Coffey, Ann Turner, Mr Andrew Wright, Jeremy Bellingham, Mr Henry Coffey, Dr Thérèse Tyrie, Mr Andrew Wright, Simon Benn, rh Hilary Collins, Damian Uppal, Paul Yeo, Mr Tim Benton, Mr Joe Colvile, Oliver Vaizey, Mr Edward Young, rh Sir George Benyon, Richard Cooper, Rosie Vara, Mr Shailesh Zahawi, Nadhim Beresford, Sir Paul Cooper, rh Yvette Berger, Luciana Cox, Mr Geoffrey NOES Berry, Jake Crabb, Stephen Betts, Mr Clive Crausby, Mr David Baron, Mr John Mann, John Bingham, Andrew Creagh, Mary Bone, Mr Peter McCabe, Steve Binley, Mr Brian Creasy, Stella Brady, Mr Graham McCartney, Jason Birtwistle, Gordon Crouch, Tracey Buck, Ms Karen McCartney, Karl Blackman, Bob Cruddas, Jon Campbell, Mr Ronnie McCrea, Dr William Blackman-Woods, Roberta Cryer, John Carswell, Mr Douglas McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Blackwood, Nicola Cunningham, Alex Cash, Mr William Mitchell, Austin Blenkinsop, Tom Cunningham, Mr Jim Chope, Mr Christopher Nuttall, Mr David Blomfield, Paul Cunningham, Tony Clappison, Mr James Owen, Albert Blunt, Mr Crispin Dakin, Nic Corbyn, Jeremy Paisley, Ian Boles, Nick Danczuk, Simon Cunningham, Tony Pritchard, Mark Bone, Mr Peter Darling, rh Mr Alistair Davies, Philip Ritchie, Ms Margaret Bottomley, Sir Peter Davey, Mr Edward Davis, rh Mr David Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Bradley, Karen David, Mr Wayne Denham, rh Mr John Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Davidson, Mr Ian Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Shannon, Jim Shepherd, Mr Richard Brady, Mr Graham Davies, David T. C. Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Brake, Tom (Monmouth) Skinner, Mr Dennis Durkan, Mark Bray, Angie Davies, Glyn Stuart, Ms Gisela Field, rh Mr Frank Brazier, Mr Julian Davies, Philip Tami, Mark Freer, Mike Brennan, Kevin Davis, rh Mr David Vaz, rh Keith Hoey, Kate Bridgen, Andrew de Bois, Nick Hollobone, Mr Philip Walker, Mr Charles Brine, Mr Steve De Piero, Gloria Jenkin, Mr Bernard Walley, Joan Brokenshire, James Denham, rh Mr John Main, Mrs Anne Whitehead, Dr Alan Brooke, Annette Dinenage, Caroline Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Question accordingly agreed to. Brown, Mr Russell Dobbin, Jim Browne, Mr Jeremy Docherty, Thomas POLICE Bruce, Fiona Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Bruce, rh Malcolm Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. That the draft Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes Bryant, Chris Donohoe, Mr Brian H. of Practice) (Revision of Codes A, B and D) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on 17 November, be approved. Buck, Ms Karen Doran, Mr Frank The House divided: Ayes 501, Noes 18. Buckland, Mr Robert Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Burden, Richard Dorries, Nadine Division No. 195] Burley, Mr Aidan Dowd, Jim Burnham, rh Andy Doyle, Gemma AYES Burns, Conor Doyle-Price, Jackie Abbott, Ms Diane Alexander, rh Danny Burns, Mr Simon Drax, Richard Abrahams, Debbie Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Burrowes, Mr David Duddridge, James Adams, Nigel Alexander, Heidi Burstow, Paul Dunne, Mr Philip Afriyie, Adam Ali, Rushanara Burt, Alistair Eagle, Ms Angela Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Amess, Mr David Burt, Lorely Eagle, Maria Aldous, Peter Anderson, Mr David Byles, Dan Efford, Clive 447 Deferred Divisions9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 448

Elliott, Julie Heaton-Harris, Chris Main, Mrs Anne Perry, Claire Ellis, Michael Hemming, John Marsden, Mr Gordon Phillips, Stephen Ellwood, Mr Tobias Henderson, Gordon May, rh Mrs Theresa Phillipson, Bridget Elphicke, Charlie Hendrick, Mark McCabe, Steve Pickles, rh Mr Eric Engel, Natascha Hendry, Charles McCarthy, Kerry Pincher, Christopher Eustice, George Hepburn, Mr Stephen McCartney, Jason Pound, Stephen Evans, Chris Herbert, rh Nick McCartney, Karl Prisk, Mr Mark Evans, Graham Heyes, David McCrea, Dr William Pritchard, Mark Evans, Jonathan Hillier, Meg McDonagh, Siobhain Pugh, John Evennett, Mr David Hinds, Damian McFadden, rh Mr Pat Randall, rh Mr John Fabricant, Michael Hoban, Mr Mark McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Fallon, Michael Hodge, rh Margaret McIntosh, Miss Anne Redwood, rh Mr John Farrelly, Paul Hodgson, Mrs Sharon McKechin, Ann Reed, Mr Jamie Farron, Tim Hoey, Kate McKinnell, Catherine Rees-Mogg, Jacob Featherstone, Lynne Hollingbery, George McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Reevell, Simon Field, Mr Mark Hollobone, Mr Philip McPartland, Stephen Reeves, Rachel Fitzpatrick, Jim Horwood, Martin McVey, Esther Reid, Mr Alan Flello, Robert Howarth, Mr Gerald Meale, Mr Alan Reynolds, Emma Flint, rh Caroline Howell, John Menzies, Mark Reynolds, Jonathan Foster, rh Mr Don Hughes, rh Simon Mercer, Patrick Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Fovargue, Yvonne Huhne, rh Chris Metcalfe, Stephen Riordan, Mrs Linda Fox,rhDrLiam Hunt, Tristram Michael, rh Alun Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Francis, Dr Hywel Hunter, Mark Miliband, rh David Robertson, Hugh Freeman, George Huppert, Dr Julian Miliband, rh Edward Robertson, Mr Laurence Freer, Mike Hurd, Mr Nick Miller, Andrew Rogerson, Dan Fullbrook, Lorraine Jackson, Mr Stewart Miller, Maria Rosindell, Andrew Gapes, Mike James, Margot Mills, Nigel Rotheram, Steve Garnier, Mr Edward Jenkin, Mr Bernard Milton, Anne Roy, Mr Frank Garnier, Mark Johnson, rh Alan Mitchell, Austin Roy, Lindsay Gauke, Mr David Johnson, Diana Moon, Mrs Madeleine Ruane, Chris George, Andrew Johnson, Gareth Moore, rh Michael Rudd, Amber Gibb, Mr Nick Johnson, Joseph Morden, Jessica Russell, Bob Gilbert, Stephen Jones, Andrew Morgan, Nicky Rutley, David Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Jones, Mr David Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Sanders, Mr Adrian Gilmore, Sheila Jones, Graham Morris, Anne Marie Sandys, Laura Glen, John Jones, Helen Morris, Grahame M. Sarwar, Anas Glindon, Mrs Mary Jones, Mr Kevan (Easington) Scott, Mr Lee Goggins, rh Paul Jones, Mr Marcus Morris, James Selous, Andrew Goodman, Helen Jones, Susan Elan Mosley, Stephen Shannon, Jim Goodwill, Mr Robert Jowell, rh Tessa Mowat, David Shapps, rh Grant Graham, Richard Kawczynski, Daniel Mudie, Mr George Sharma, Alok Grant, Mrs Helen Keeley, Barbara Mulholland, Greg Sharma, Mr Virendra Gray, Mr James Kelly, Chris Munn, Meg Sheerman, Mr Barry Grayling, rh Chris Kendall, Liz Munt, Tessa Shelbrooke, Alec Green, Damian Kirby, Simon Murphy, rh Paul Shepherd, Mr Richard Green, Kate Laing, Mrs Eleanor Murray, Ian Sheridan, Jim Greening, Justine Lamb, Norman Murray, Sheryll Simmonds, Mark Greenwood, Lilian Lancaster, Mark Murrison, Dr Andrew Simpson, Mr Keith Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Nash, Pamela Skidmore, Chris Griffith, Nia Latham, Pauline Neill, Robert Slaughter, Mr Andy Griffiths, Andrew Laws, rh Mr David Newmark, Mr Brooks Smith, rh Mr Andrew Gwynne, Andrew Lazarowicz, Mark Newton, Sarah Smith, Angela Gyimah, Mr Sam Leadsom, Andrea Nokes, Caroline Smith, Miss Chloe Hain, rh Mr Peter Lee, Jessica Norman, Jesse Smith, Henry Halfon, Robert Lee, Dr Phillip Nuttall, Mr David Smith, Julian Hames, Duncan Lefroy, Jeremy O’Brien, Mr Stephen Smith, Owen Hamilton, Mr David Leslie, Chris O’Donnell, Fiona Soubry, Anna Hamilton, Fabian Lewis, Brandon Offord, Mr Matthew Soulsby, Sir Peter Hammond, rh Mr Philip Lewis, Mr Ivan Ollerenshaw, Eric Spellar, rh Mr John Hammond, Stephen Lewis, Dr Julian Onwurah, Chi Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Hancock, Matthew Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Opperman, Guy Spencer, Mr Mark Hancock, Mr Mike Lidington, rh Mr David Osborne, rh Mr George Stanley, rh Sir John Hands, Greg Lloyd, Tony Ottaway, Richard Stevenson, John Hanson, rh Mr David Lopresti, Jack Owen, Albert Stewart, Bob Harper, Mr Mark Lord, Jonathan Paisley, Ian Stewart, Iain Harrington, Richard Loughton, Tim Parish, Neil Stewart, Rory Harris, Rebecca Love, Mr Andrew Patel, Priti Straw, rh Mr Jack Hart, Simon Lucas, Ian Paterson, rh Mr Owen Streeter, Mr Gary Harvey, Nick Lumley, Karen Pawsey, Mark Stride, Mel Heald, Mr Oliver Macleod, Mary Pearce, Teresa Stringer, Graham Healey, rh John MacShane, rh Mr Denis Penrose, John Stuart, Ms Gisela Heath, Mr David Mactaggart, Fiona Percy, Andrew Stuart, Mr Graham 449 Deferred Divisions9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 450

Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Ward, Mr David Bellingham, Mr Henry Field, rh Mr Frank Swales, Ian Watkinson, Angela Benyon, Richard Field, Mr Mark Swinson, Jo Watts, Mr Dave Beresford, Sir Paul Foster, rh Mr Don Swire, rh Mr Hugo Weatherley, Mike Berry, Jake Fox,rhDrLiam Syms, Mr Robert Webb, Steve Bingham, Andrew Freeman, George Tami, Mark Wharton, James Binley, Mr Brian Freer, Mike Tapsell, Sir Peter Wheeler, Heather Birtwistle, Gordon Fullbrook, Lorraine Thomas, Mr Gareth White, Chris Blackman, Bob Garnier, Mr Edward Thurso, John Whittingdale, Mr John Blackwood, Nicola Garnier, Mark Timms, rh Stephen Wicks, rh Malcolm Blunt, Mr Crispin Gauke, Mr David Timpson, Mr Edward Willetts, rh Mr David Boles, Nick George, Andrew Tomlinson, Justin Williams, Mr Mark Bottomley, Sir Peter Gibb, Mr Nick Tredinnick, David Williams, Roger Bradley, Karen Gilbert, Stephen Trickett, Jon Williams, Stephen Brake, Tom Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Truss, Elizabeth Williamson, Chris Bray, Angie Glen, John Turner, Mr Andrew Williamson, Gavin Brazier, Mr Julian Goodwill, Mr Robert Bridgen, Andrew Graham, Richard Turner, Karl Wilson, Phil Twigg, Stephen Brine, Mr Steve Grant, Mrs Helen Wilson, Mr Rob Tyrie, Mr Andrew Brokenshire, James Grayling, rh Chris Winnick, Mr David Umunna, Mr Chuka Brooke, Annette Green, Damian Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Uppal, Paul Browne, Mr Jeremy Greening, Justine Woodcock, John Vaizey, Mr Edward Bruce, Fiona Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Vara, Mr Shailesh Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Bruce, rh Malcolm Griffiths, Andrew Vaz, Valerie Wright, David Buckland, Mr Robert Gyimah, Mr Sam Vickers, Martin Wright, Mr Iain Burley, Mr Aidan Halfon, Robert Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Wright, Jeremy Burns, Conor Hames, Duncan Walker, Mr Charles Wright, Simon Burns, Mr Simon Hammond, rh Mr Philip Walker, Mr Robin Yeo, Mr Tim Burrowes, Mr David Hammond, Stephen Wallace, Mr Ben Young, rh Sir George Burstow, Paul Hancock, Matthew Walter, Mr Robert Zahawi, Nadhim Burt, Alistair Hancock, Mr Mike Burt, Lorely Hands, Greg NOES Byles, Dan Harper, Mr Mark Cable, rh Vince Harrington, Richard Durkan, Mark Qureshi, Yasmin Cairns, Alun Harris, Rebecca Edwards, Jonathan Ritchie, Ms Margaret Cameron, rh Mr David Hart, Simon Hermon, Lady Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harvey, Nick Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Skinner, Mr Dennis Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Heald, Mr Oliver Long, Naomi Thornberry, Emily Carmichael, Neil Heath, Mr David Lucas, Caroline Vaz, rh Keith Chishti, Rehman Heaton-Harris, Chris Mahmood, Mr Khalid Walley, Joan Clappison, Mr James Hemming, John Mann, John Whitehead, Dr Alan Clark, rh Greg Henderson, Gordon McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Williams, Hywel Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hendry, Charles Coffey, Dr Thérèse Herbert, rh Nick Question accordingly agreed to. Collins, Damian Hermon, Lady Colvile, Oliver Hinds, Damian Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hoban, Mr Mark TAXATION OF THE FINANCIAL SECTOR Crabb, Stephen Hollingbery, George That this House takes note of European Union Document Crouch, Tracey Horwood, Martin No. 15282/10 and Addendum, relating to financial sector taxation; recognises that decisions regarding direct taxes are primarily a Davey, Mr Edward Howarth, Mr Gerald matter for sovereign governments; supports the timely action the Davies, David T. C. Howell, John Government has already taken to introduce a permanent levy on (Monmouth) Hughes, rh Simon bank balance sheets to ensure that banks make a full and fair Davies, Glyn Huhne, rh Chris contribution in respect of the potential risks they pose to the Davies, Philip Hunter, Mark wider economy; notes that the Government continues to explore de Bois, Nick Huppert, Dr Julian the costs and benefits of financial activities taxes and will work Dinenage, Caroline Hurd, Mr Nick with international partners to secure agreement; and further Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Jackson, Mr Stewart supports the Government’s position that an EU-wide financial Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen James, Margot transaction tax could lead to the relocation of financial services Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Gareth outside the EU. Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Joseph The House divided: Ayes 295, Noes 223. Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Division No. 196] Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, Mr David Ellis, Michael Jones, Mr Marcus AYES Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kawczynski, Daniel Elphicke, Charlie Kelly, Chris Adams, Nigel Baker, Norman Afriyie, Adam Baldry, Tony Eustice, George Kirby, Simon Aldous, Peter Baldwin, Harriett Evans, Graham Laing, Mrs Eleanor Alexander, rh Danny Barclay, Stephen Evans, Jonathan Lamb, Norman Amess, Mr David Barker, Gregory Evennett, Mr David Lancaster, Mark Andrew, Stuart Baron, Mr John Fabricant, Michael Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Barwell, Gavin Fallon, Michael Latham, Pauline Bacon, Mr Richard Bebb, Guto Farron, Tim Laws, rh Mr David Bagshawe, Ms Louise Beith, rh Sir Alan Featherstone, Lynne Leadsom, Andrea 451 Deferred Divisions9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 452

Lee, Jessica Rosindell, Andrew Alexander, Heidi Efford, Clive Lee, Dr Phillip Rudd, Amber Ali, Rushanara Elliott, Julie Lefroy, Jeremy Russell, Bob Anderson, Mr David Engel, Natascha Lewis, Brandon Rutley, David Austin, Ian Evans, Chris Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Sanders, Mr Adrian Bailey, Mr Adrian Farrelly, Paul Lidington, rh Mr David Sandys, Laura Bain, Mr William Fitzpatrick, Jim Long, Naomi Scott, Mr Lee Balls, rh Ed Flello, Robert Lopresti, Jack Selous, Andrew Banks, Gordon Flint, rh Caroline Lord, Jonathan Shapps, rh Grant Barron, rh Mr Kevin Fovargue, Yvonne Loughton, Tim Sharma, Alok Bayley, Hugh Francis, Dr Hywel Lumley, Karen Shelbrooke, Alec Beckett, rh Margaret Gapes, Mike Macleod, Mary Simmonds, Mark Begg, Dame Anne Gilmore, Sheila May, rh Mrs Theresa Simpson, Mr Keith Bell, Sir Stuart Glindon, Mrs Mary McCartney, Jason Skidmore, Chris Benn, rh Hilary Goggins, rh Paul McCartney, Karl Smith, Miss Chloe Benton, Mr Joe Goodman, Helen McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Henry Berger, Luciana Green, Kate McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Julian Betts, Mr Clive Greenwood, Lilian McPartland, Stephen Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Blackman-Woods, Roberta Griffith, Nia McVey, Esther Spencer, Mr Mark Blenkinsop, Tom Gwynne, Andrew Menzies, Mark Stanley, rh Sir John Blomfield, Paul Hain, rh Mr Peter Mercer, Patrick Stevenson, John Bone, Mr Peter Hamilton, Mr David Metcalfe, Stephen Stewart, Bob Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hamilton, Fabian Miller, Maria Stewart, Iain Brennan, Kevin Hanson, rh Mr David Mills, Nigel Stewart, Rory Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Healey, rh John Milton, Anne Streeter, Mr Gary Brown, Mr Russell Hendrick, Mark Moore, rh Michael Stride, Mel Bryant, Chris Hepburn, Mr Stephen Morgan, Nicky Stuart, Mr Graham Buck, Ms Karen Heyes, David Morris, Anne Marie Swales, Ian Burden, Richard Hillier, Meg Morris, James Swinson, Jo Burnham, rh Andy Hodge, rh Margaret Mosley, Stephen Swire, rh Mr Hugo Cairns, David Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Mowat, David Syms, Mr Robert Campbell, Mr Alan Hollobone, Mr Philip Mulholland, Greg Tapsell, Sir Peter Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hosie, Stewart Munt, Tessa Thornberry, Emily Carswell, Mr Douglas Hunt, Tristram Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John Cash, Mr William Jenkin, Mr Bernard Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Chapman, Mrs Jenny Johnson, rh Alan Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin Chope, Mr Christopher Johnson, Diana Newmark, Mr Brooks Tredinnick, David Clark, Katy Jones, Graham Newton, Sarah Truss, Elizabeth Clarke, rh Mr Tom Jones, Helen Nokes, Caroline Tyrie, Mr Andrew Clwyd, rh Ann Jones, Mr Kevan Norman, Jesse Uppal, Paul Coaker, Vernon Jones, Susan Elan O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vaizey, Mr Edward Coffey, Ann Jowell, rh Tessa Offord, Mr Matthew Vara, Mr Shailesh Cooper, Rosie Keeley, Barbara Ollerenshaw, Eric Vickers, Martin Cooper, rh Yvette Kendall, Liz Opperman, Guy Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Corbyn, Jeremy Lammy, rh Mr David Osborne, rh Mr George Walker, Mr Robin Crausby, Mr David Lazarowicz, Mark Ottaway, Richard Wallace, Mr Ben Creagh, Mary Leslie, Chris Parish, Neil Walter, Mr Robert Creasy, Stella Lewis, Mr Ivan Paterson, rh Mr Owen Ward, Mr David Cruddas, Jon Lloyd, Tony Pawsey, Mark Watkinson, Angela Cryer, John Llwyd, Mr Elfyn Penrose, John Weatherley, Mike Cunningham, Alex Love, Mr Andrew Percy, Andrew Webb, Steve Cunningham, Mr Jim Lucas, Caroline Perry, Claire Wharton, James Cunningham, Tony Lucas, Ian Phillips, Stephen Wheeler, Heather Dakin, Nic MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Pickles, rh Mr Eric White, Chris Danczuk, Simon MacShane, rh Mr Denis Pincher, Christopher Whittingdale, Mr John Darling, rh Mr Alistair Mactaggart, Fiona Prisk, Mr Mark Willetts, rh Mr David David, Mr Wayne Mahmood, Mr Khalid Pritchard, Mark Williams, Hywel Davidson, Mr Ian Main, Mrs Anne Pugh, John Williams, Mr Mark Davis, rh Mr David Mann, John Randall, rh Mr John Williams, Roger De Piero, Gloria Marsden, Mr Gordon Rees-Mogg, Jacob Williams, Stephen Denham, rh Mr John McCabe, Steve Reevell, Simon Williamson, Gavin Dobbin, Jim McCarthy, Kerry Reid, Mr Alan Wilson, Mr Rob Docherty, Thomas McCrea, Dr William Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Wright, Jeremy Dodds, rh Mr Nigel McDonagh, Siobhain Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Wright, Simon Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Robertson, Hugh Yeo, Mr Tim Donohoe, Mr Brian H. McDonnell, John Robertson, Mr Laurence Young, rh Sir George Doran, Mr Frank McFadden, rh Mr Pat Rogerson, Dan Zahawi, Nadhim Dowd, Jim McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Doyle, Gemma McKechin, Ann NOES Durkan, Mark McKinnell, Catherine Abbott, Ms Diane Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Eagle, Ms Angela Meale, Mr Alan Abrahams, Debbie Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Eagle, Maria Michael, rh Alun Edwards, Jonathan Miliband, rh David 453 Deferred Divisions9 FEBRUARY 2011 Deferred Divisions 454

Miliband, rh Edward Qureshi, Yasmin Slaughter, Mr Andy Vaz, rh Keith Miller, Andrew Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Smith, rh Mr Andrew Vaz, Valerie Mitchell, Austin Reed, Mr Jamie Smith, Angela Walley, Joan Moon, Mrs Madeleine Reeves, Rachel Smith, Owen Watts, Mr Dave Morden, Jessica Reynolds, Emma Soulsby, Sir Peter Weir, Mr Mike Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Reynolds, Jonathan Spellar, rh Mr Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Morris, Grahame M. Riordan, Mrs Linda John Whitehead, Dr Alan (Easington) Ritchie, Ms Margaret Straw, rh Mr Jack Wicks, rh Malcolm Mudie, Mr George Robertson, Angus Stuart, Ms Gisela Williamson, Chris Munn, Meg Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Wilson, Phil Murphy, rh Paul Rotheram, Steve Tami, Mark Winnick, Mr David Murray, Ian Roy, Mr Frank Thomas, Mr Gareth Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Nash, Pamela Roy, Lindsay Timms, rh Stephen Wishart, Pete Nuttall, Mr David Ruane, Chris Trickett, Jon O’Donnell, Fiona Sarwar, Anas Turner, Mr Andrew Woodcock, John Onwurah, Chi Shannon, Jim Turner, Karl Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Owen, Albert Sharma, Mr Virendra Twigg, Stephen Wright, David Paisley, Ian Sheerman, Mr Barry Umunna, Mr Chuka Wright, Mr Iain Pearce, Teresa Shepherd, Mr Richard Phillipson, Bridget Sheridan, Jim Question accordingly agreed to. Pound, Stephen Skinner, Mr Dennis

77WH 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 78WH

head teacher allowing a child to go into school with a Westminster Hall bag full of goods to sell for cash in these politically correct times. Coincidentally, my head teacher lived next door to my cousin, Stephen Payne, and at school Wednesday 9 February 2011 fairs he used every opportunity to raise money for muscular dystrophy. [PHILIP DAVIES in the Chair] My uncle continued to campaign to raise money and awareness. People in wheelchairs were often not allowed Neuromuscular Care (North-West) access to places such as airports and museums, which led to considerable arguments. My uncle rightly felt that Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting people with disabilities should be allowed in. I am glad be now adjourned.—(Paul Burstow.) to say that in the 21st century, things are a lot different. Stephen was a bright and articulate individual, and 9.30 am he was always forthright in his opinions. He was a Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): I thank Mr Speaker Manchester City fan, while I was a Manchester United for allocating time for this important subject. I pay fan. When Manchester United got relegated in 1973, he tribute to the excellent Muscular Dystrophy Campaign, certainly let it be known how pleased he was about that. which does such brilliant work in this field and has Stephen died in California when he was 21. His peers assisted me in preparing for the debate. This morning, I died when they were in their very early teens, which just will bring to the attention of the Minister the significant goes to show that palliative care and hydrotherapy can gaps in specialist neuromuscular care services in the extend the lives of people with Duchenne. north-west region that many people living with muscular The Muscular Dystrophy Campaign is the leading dystrophy and related neuromuscular conditions currently UK charity and focuses on all neuromuscular conditions. experience. Vital review work undertaken by the NHS It is dedicated to improving the lives of all people with North West specialised commissioning group in the such conditions. Founded in 1959, the Muscular Dystrophy past six months is encouraging, but families need to see Campaign funds vital research, provides and supports it translated into real improvements to services. It also care services and gives information, advice and direct provides an opportunity to improve patient outcomes help to individuals living with neuromuscular conditions. and to reduce the amount of money spent on unplanned I am honoured to be a member of the all-party emergency admissions to hospital for people in the parliamentary group for muscular dystrophy, which has north-west with neuromuscular conditions. highlighted shocking gaps in service across the UK and Let me briefly outline my personal connection to continues to call for improvements in access to specialist muscular dystrophy. I am 47 years old, and I had a neuromuscular care to follow up recommendations in cousin, Stephen Payne, who, if he was still alive today, the Walton report. would be of the same age. He was diagnosed with There are more than 60 types of muscular dystrophy Duchenne muscular dystrophy at the age of six, and I and related neuromuscular conditions. It is estimated remember the devastating effects that it had on our that more than 1,000 children and adults in every family. This was in the late 1960s, when not a lot was million of the population are affected by muscle-wasting known about the condition. I remember my uncle, neuromuscular diseases—in the north-west around Mr Barrie Payne, taking his son to Harley street for a 8,000 people in total. Such disorders can be genetic or diagnosis. I am afraid to say that it was not good. None acquired. A number of conditions, such as Duchenne the less, Mr Barrie Payne is a fighter and a campaigner muscular dystrophy, are particularly aggressive. They and he threw all his energies into fundraising to see if a cause progressive muscle wasting, weakness, orthopaedic cure could be found for Duchenne. deformity and cardiac and respiratory compromise, and My very earliest memories, therefore, are of a family result in premature death. Many young boys in the UK fighting and campaigning for a cure for that dreadful with Duchenne muscular dystrophy are dying before disease. I also have very early memories of politicians they get beyond their teens; that is unacceptable. getting involved in this vital subject. I pay tribute to Specialist multidisciplinary care has been developed Lord Alf Morris of Manchester, who, at the time, was by leading clinicians as the best model for delivering the MP for Wythenshawe. Coincidentally, Lord Morris’s effective care for such complex multi-system diseases. sister lived on my council estate, and I remember him The provision of expert orthopaedics and early cardiac driving to our estate in his Wolseley car. At the time, monitoring and intervention has been shown to improve those cars were for very special people. He came to see muscle function and maintain independent mobility. my family when he visited his sister and I remember People with neuromuscular conditions, therefore, need thinking at the time what a special man he was. In those specialist multidisciplinary care, support and intervention days, in the ’60s and ’70s, it was thought that politicians from a range of professionals and specialists. That was could help ordinary people from working-class backgrounds recognised as part of the specialised services national such as mine. I remember so well the work that my definitions set. Leading neuromuscular clinicians fought family and Mr Morris did to get a change in legislation. hard to get those services recognised as specialist by the I am pleased to say that Alf Morris was behind the Department of Health. Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, which Specialised services are defined in law as services with was the first Act in the world to give rights to people a planning population of more than 1 million people, with disabilities. which means that a specialised service is not provided I did my best to raise money for the muscular dystrophy by every hospital in England. The SSNDS describes the charity. I used to sell pens, pencils, rulers and pencil services in more detail. The definitions provide a helpful cases in my school yard at primary school. Imagine a basis for service reviews and strategic planning, which 79WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 80WH

[Graham Evans] National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence for these neuromuscular conditions, which presents real enables commissioners to make comparisons of activity difficulties when trying to set standards of care across levels and spend. They help with the identification the country. of activity that should be regarded as specialised and That situation has been a contributing factor to the therefore subject to collaborative commissioning postcode lottery that has arisen, and which was highlighted arrangements. The 10 specialised commissioning groups, in the all-party group on muscular dystrophy’s Walton acting on behalf of the members of primary care trusts, report, published in August 2009. That followed reports are responsible for the commissioning arrangements for by the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign, as part of the specialised services. charity’s “Building on the Foundations”campaign, which Neuromuscular conditions come under the auspices revealed the shocking lack of specialist care in many of a number of specialities; they are genetic conditions, parts of the country. The lack of knowledge, training so geneticists sometimes deal with patients. The conditions and skills in the sector is a significant concern. For sometimes affect children, so paediatricians are involved. example, there is no specific training or curriculum for A number of the adult forms come under the heading neuromuscular services in the neurological field. of neurology. Some of the conditions require respiratory I am sure that hon. Members will share my concerns care, which is provided by a respiratory practitioner, and the frustrations of people living with neuromuscular and some are metabolic conditions such as Pompe, conditions in the north-west, as expressed in the and patients are treated by specialists for metabolic Muscular Dystrophy Campaign’s patient survey in disorders. Therefore, health care for people is quite 2010. Deborah Hurst from Liverpool is affected fragmented, and that clouds professional responsibility. by facioscapulohumeral—FSH—muscular dystrophy. “Neuromuscular” must be recognised as a speciality However, she was not diagnosed with it until she was in along with neurology. her late thirties. She is now 47. Her two daughters were Dr Ros Quinlivan, a leading consultant in paediatrics born before she was correctly diagnosed and one of and neuromuscular disorders, has outlined the effects of them, who is now aged 25, has inherited the condition. neuromuscular conditions and how they need to be Deborah says: managed: “I have two daughters and I knew one was affected, but the “Neuromuscular conditions are rare and include: Muscular doctor told me I was fussing and silly. When I finally got them dystrophies, metabolic myopathies, congenital myopathies, tested, he congratulated me on my actions, which I was very mad inflammatory myopathies, Spinal Muscular Atrophies. Many of about as my daughter took her diagnosis very badly at the time these conditions affect only skeletal muscle and thus cannot be and ‘congratulations’ was not what we wanted to hear.” considered to be neurological disorders, in fact skeletal muscle Mrs H from Lancashire has a son affected by a can be considered to be the largest organ in the body. Most neuromuscular condition. She says that in her experience, neuromuscular disorders are genetic in origin and affect families, but the inflammatory myopathies are acquired and require specific GPs do not understand such conditions: treatment. Affected patients range from newborn infants to elderly “My GP is very good but says, ‘We have about two hours of people. The effect of many of these conditions is on the skeleton tutorial on muscular dystrophy in the whole medical training.’ So causing skeletal deformities due to muscle contractures and on therefore they have no in-depth knowledge.” the heart and lungs causing respiratory or cardiac failure which Elaine Sands from Stockport is also affected by FSH can significantly limit life expectancy. muscular dystrophy. She does not receive any specialist The physical management of these disorders is quite distinct care, but she would value the support of a neuromuscular compared with conditions affecting either the nervous system or care adviser. She says: the musculo-skeletal system (bone and joints). Proximal and axial muscle weakness caused specific functional difficulties not seen in “As I am housebound, it would be nice to have someone give patients attending clinics in other specialist areas. The progressive me physiotherapy and also some kind of visitor who knows about nature of these conditions means that a multi-disciplinary approach my condition, as I live alone and I would appreciate being able to to care, with experienced clinicians specialising in neuromuscular talk to someone who understands the disease.” disorders, is essential to achieve the best outcomes.” However, the situation is different for Joanne Ashton. It is now felt by the clinical community that it is time She has a five-year-old son, Liam, who has Duchenne to make a neuromuscular curriculum part of the medical muscular dystrophy.Through the specialist neuromuscular career, to establish the neuromuscular field in its own service at Alder Hey hospital, Joanne and her family right. The conditions have a lot in common, so it makes have access to a specialist consultant, Dr Stefan Spinty, sense that they are treated by the same person. For and to a full multidisciplinary service, including a example, some forms of limb-girdle muscular dystrophy neuromuscular care adviser. Joanne says: exhibit similar symptoms to some forms of spinal muscular “Shirley, our Care advisor, is fantastic. We only have to ask atrophy, but one is a muscle disease and the other more and she’s there. Liam had his wish granted, through the “Make A a neurological disease. They are long-term rare conditions, Wish Foundation”, because he was nominated by Shirley. So we which makes them quite different from neurological are all impressed with the care advisors.” diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. The Muscular Dystrophy Campaign’s clinician-led Neuromuscular services need to be commissioned on report, “Building on the Foundations in the North a regional basis. Currently they are commissioned by West”, which was published in June 2009, made a the 10 regional NHS specialised commissioning groups, number of findings about neuromuscular services in the with top-slicing of PCTs. That method of commissioning north-west. services for these rare and very rare conditions has been endorsed by a new body of experts, the British Myology Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I Society. It makes no sense for one PCT to commission thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and I congratulate specialised services. Unlike conditions such as Parkinson’s him on securing this debate. He has rightly referred to or multiple sclerosis, there are no guidelines from the the issue of care advisers. Obviously I understand that 81WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 82WH the north-west of England is his particular concern, but so that we get off on the right foot when the changes does he agree that if more emphasis were put on having come in. However the GP-led consortia really need to excellent care advisers right across the UK, like the understand and appreciate what is required. It is about adviser who he has just referred to, that would help having a holistic approach. Shortly I will discuss an those who suffer from this condition immensely in excellent neuromuscular centre in Cheshire, which makes trying to come to terms with it? a huge difference to patients. It encompasses physiotherapy and the other aspects of care that make life so much Graham Evans: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that more comfortable for those people who have muscular intervention. I wholeheartedly agree. When someone is dystrophy. suffering from a condition, there is nothing quite like having people trying to help who understand what they John Pugh: I apologise to the hon. Gentleman and to are going through, both physically and mentally. So I you, Mr Davies, because I will not be able to stay for the wholeheartedly agree. duration of the debate. Consequently, I will not find the As I was saying, the “Building on the Foundations in answer to the problem that I have just referred to. the North West” report found that three out of four neuromuscular patients and their families have no access to a key worker or a care co-ordinator. About 6.5 regional Graham Evans: Okay. I thank the hon. Gentleman. care advisers are needed to serve the estimated 8,000 people —which is up from an earlier estimate of 6,500 people—in George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): I apologise the north-west area who have a neuromuscular condition. to my hon. Friend for intervening immediately after Many of those people are simply not known to providers another intervention. He has just raised an interesting of health services. point about the transition from paediatric services to The report also found that neuromuscular patients adult services. In my own area of the south-central have very limited access to treatment, in particular to region, which is clearly outside the geographical area ongoing physiotherapy. Specialist physiotherapists are that is the focus of this debate, we have recently managed required to support outreach clinics and to provide to secure at least an advertisement for a new care training and professional development for community adviser in the area. However, I understand that that physiotherapists. In the north-west, two fifths of care adviser will not be able to advise on paediatric neuromuscular patients said that they do not receive conditions but only on transition and adult services. Is enough physiotherapy. it not the case that we need a full range of services for Another finding of the report was that there is no all sufferers of this disease and a proper range of advice dedicated physiological service for neuromuscular patients, across all ages? despite the importance of such a service as part of multidisciplinary care for that patient group, who have Graham Evans: My hon. Friend makes a very good rare and very progressive conditions. Those conditions point and I totally agree. A holistic approach is needed are often genetic, there are no known cures and there and there should be a seamless transition from being a are only limited treatments available. Greater support at young person and receiving paediatric services to receiving the transition from paediatric services to adult services adult services. However, this point does not just apply is needed, given the evidence that services are removed to muscular dystrophy. For example, lots of mental or greatly reduced when patients leave paediatric services, health care services suffer from similar problems. even though their needs may well increase given the Nevertheless, my hon. Friend is quite right. There should progressive nature of many of these conditions. be a seamless transition from one service to another. John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I thank the hon. Gentleman Greater support at transition from paediatric to adult for giving way and I congratulate him on raising an services is necessary to provide evidence of services important subject. In fact, he highlights a very significant being removed or greatly reduced when patients leave problem. If I understand him correctly, he is saying that paediatric services, even though, as I have said, their we need an adequate clinical network for the rare disease needs may well increase given the progressive nature of that he is speaking about and a range of providers need many of these neuromuscular conditions. There is a to be joined seamlessly, as it were, in some way for the three-monthly transitional clinic in Manchester and a good of the patient. Normally, we expect the strategic monthly transitional clinic that alternates between Alder health authority to identify the failures to provide such Hey children’s hospital and the Walton centre, which a seamless service and to somehow levy the PCTs to are both in Liverpool. Both those services—in Manchester deliver it, which the patients expect and deserve. Is he and Liverpool—are extremely vulnerable and entirely saying that the central problem is how such a service dependent on the availability of their respective consultants. will progress under the new arrangements, when PCTs, A transitional clinic at Preston is evolving, but it is not SHAs and other such organisations, which are mandated formally funded and is based on the good will of the to resolve these problems, no longer exist? clinicians. The transitional clinic at Alder Hey children’s hospital is the only one that is attended by the required multidisciplinary team. None of the transitional services Graham Evans: I thank my hon. Friend for that in the region is funded or appropriately staffed. intervention. He makes a very good point. The new arrangements are a threat, but they are also an opportunity, The Walton report, published in August 2009, expressed because services are currently provided by the PCTs but the concerns that the all-party group on muscular dystrophy not all of them understand these neuromuscular conditions. developed as a result of its inquiry into access to The new arrangements are a real opportunity for the specialist neuromuscular care. Martyn Blenkharn, chair Muscular Dystrophy Campaign to get its point across, of the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign’s North West 83WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 84WH

[Graham Evans] As a result of lobbying by the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign, a review of services was set up in the NHS Muscle Group, expressed in written evidence to the South West specialised commissioning group in February all-party group his frustrations about attempts to access 2008. In February 2009, local primary care trusts approved NHS physiotherapy: a new £1 million neuromuscular strategy to reduce the “No hydrotherapy available in the area - private arrangements £6.9 million spent in the region on unplanned emergency can be made, but no assistance from NHS physiotherapists can be admissions to hospital for people with neuromuscular obtained. Compared with the previous PCT area (North Cumbria) conditions. which covered the area where I used to live, the service in my current PCT area (North Lancashire) is totally unsatisfactory - I am fully aware, as are several hon. Friends, of the the quality of care from those who treat me directly is fantastic, excellent work by the NeuroMuscular Centre in Winsford, but their hands are tied to provide what is really needed.” Cheshire, which is in the constituency of my hon. Friend The all-party group concluded in its regional summary the Member for Eddisbury (Mr O’Brien). That centre about the NHS North West region: provides ongoing specialist physiotherapy, which reduces “We heard from clinicians in the North West region about the the number of falls among people with neuromuscular problems facing the multi-disciplinary North West Neuromuscular conditions, and it also offers social enterprise opportunities. Network - founded and chaired by Dr Stefan Spinty, Consultant However, although the physiotherapy provision is regarded Paediatric Neurologist and lead neuromuscular clinician at Alder as excellent by those who go to the centre, difficulties Hey Children’s Hospital, Liverpool. Dr Spinty is currently managing this vital network single-handedly without any funding. We believe are encountered with PCTs and funding, as reported in that the Network should at least be supported by a Network the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign’s patient survey Coordinator. Greater support at transition from paediatric to 2010. Mr A from Cheshire has Charcot-Marie-Tooth adult services is also needed, given the evidence of services being disease and travels to the centre for specialist physiotherapy removed or greatly reduced when people leave paediatric services. and hydrotherapy, but his local PCT is unwilling to pay, Existing transition services are extremely vulnerable and we were despite not offering him any alternative physiotherapy concerned to learn from clinicians that none of the transitional or hydrotherapy provision. Following concerted pressure services in the region are funded nor appropriately staffed. Having by the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign, the North West met with commissioners from the North West Specialised Commissioning Group to discuss these concerns, local clinicians Muscle Group and the all-party group, Jon Develing, and representatives from the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign chief officer of the NHS North West specialised were disappointed to be told that there are competing priorities in commissioning team, made a personal commitment to the region, and that PCT budgets were under strain. We urge the the all-party group in January to recommend that the North West SCG and the local PCTs to undertake a service NHS North West specialised commissioning group review to address the weaknesses highlighted by clinicians, patients undertake a review of neuromuscular services. and the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign.” The NHS North West specialised commissioning group The review was set up by the commissioning group in has taken significant steps forward since those findings, May 2010, and the steering group set up an effective and I will outline them shortly. model for the NHS working with the Muscular Dystrophy The North West Muscle Group raises awareness of Campaign, patients and expert clinicians from the region. neuromuscular conditions and provides a forum for To further involve people living with neuromuscular people living with the condition to share experiences conditions, a stakeholder day was held in September and advice about access to local and regional services. 2010, which represented a vital opportunity for people Since its launch in June 2009, the group has been to have their say about the services that are crucial for actively campaigning to improve access to neuromuscular an acceptable standard of specialist neuromuscular care services in the region, engaging with MPs and with the in the region. That led to a gap analysis and a report NHS North West specialised commissioning group. with recommendations for service improvements— the Pressure from the North West Muscle Group, alongside first time ever that neuromuscular services have been the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign and the all-party looked at in this way, across the whole region. group, was instrumental in ensuring that the NHS North West specialised commissioning group conducted The recommendations are currently being put to a thorough review of neuromuscular services. local primary care trusts to approve new investment for a neuromuscular strategy. The proposed minimal required Joanne Ashton, a member of the North West Muscle investment to reduce the £13.6 million spent on unplanned Group, commented: emergency admissions to hospital for neuromuscular “I’m glad I joined the Muscle Group. It means I’ve got all this conditions and to sustain neuromuscular services across information early on and I won’t come up against a brick wall the north-west includes 2.5 new fully NHS-funded care later - I feel I’ve been pre-armed. It’s nice to know I’m not on my own and it’s good to meet other people at different stages. Every advisers, 2.5 specialist consultants, two to three specialist day I imagine how bad things could get, but at the Muscle Group physiotherapists and one specialist neuromuscular nurse. I met young lads with Duchenne muscular dystrophy who are in wheelchairs and they’re fantastic, they’re doing so well. Everything Will the Minister agree to write to the specialised had a real positive spin on it too, and I realised that it’s not all commissioning group and to PCTs, endorsing the doom and gloom.” recommendations as necessary steps to save money and The campaign in the north-west was further spurred on reduce unplanned emergency admissions? Will he ensure by a comment made by Mike Farrar, NHS North West’s that a named individual in the NHS in the north-west chief executive, to Lord Walton of Detchant at an event will take the work forward once the specialised in Parliament in November 2009. Having referred to the commissioning groups disappear? The neuromuscular review of neuromuscular services in the south-west, network approach is hugely important to ensure the which Sir Ian Carruthers, NHS South West’s chief co-ordination of neuromuscular services in specialist executive pushed through, Mike Farrar commented: multidisciplinary teams, as demonstrated in the south-west “Anything Sir Ian Carruthers can do, we can do better”. of England and by the Scottish Muscle Network, and 85WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 86WH to ensure links to the primary and secondary care that to hijack this debate. I want to give positive support to plays a crucial part in the management of neuromuscular the articulate efforts of the hon. Member for Weaver conditions. Vale, who spoke compellingly about what muscular Dr Stefan Spinty, consultant paediatric neurologist at dystrophy can mean for the individuals affected and Alder Hey children’s hospital, who played a leading role their families. in the north-west neuromuscular service review, said: Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I do not have a relative “In order to improve patient outcomes and help to reduce who suffers from muscular dystrophy, but I remember unnecessary and costly hospital admissions, it is important that being particularly impressed by a young constituent of the recommendations from the North West Specialised Commissioning mine and his family. My constituent, who unfortunately Group report, which is due to be published soon, are implemented. died a couple of years ago, was named Donovan McKeever. All neuromuscular clinicians who have been involved in the When his parents, Brendan and Teresa, heard Donovan’s North West neuromuscular service review are committed to support diagnosis, they were confounded by the degree to which the implementation process to further improve and secure service provision for individuals affected by neuromuscular conditions in nobody knew what to say to them or what they were the future.” talking about, asking about or looking for. Donovan’s father Brendan wrote a small book about his experience, Christine Ogden, a campaigner and fundraiser from titled “It Shouldn’t Have to Be Like This”. Bolton, whose grandson has Duchenne muscular dystrophy, said: Unfortunately, when a child is diagnosed with muscular “It is vital, that essential increase in care, support and advice dystrophy—this also happens with many other conditions, for families outlined in the North West Specialised Commissioning such as autism—parents often have to navigate systems Group’s report recommendations, which will make a real difference and negotiate between services as though they were the for families living with muscle disease. It is also so important that first to find themselves in that situation. The hon. information for health professionals about neuromuscular conditions Gentleman’s speech reflected such frustrations. Because is significantly developed.” people know the good work of the Muscular Dystrophy Beryl Swords from Liverpool, whose son John has Campaign and know that it is a recognised disease, they FSH muscular dystrophy, has commented on the provision assume that care services are in place and that the of physiotherapy for adults with neuromuscular conditions: system kicks in and knows what to do, how to pass “I feel strongly that physiotherapy for adults with muscular people on and how to connect services. They assume dystrophy is totally inadequate. If improvements were made to that key workers exist to ensure that needs are met, North West neuromuscular services, then perhaps this area of whether that involves a disabled facilities grant for care could be more freely available, keeping people with the adapting housing, or assistance deciding which school condition mobile for longer.” environment will be most conducive or accessible. Families The urgency of improving neuromuscular services in need support, and they expect the system to provide it. the north-west is encapsulated in the following comments For people with muscular dystrophy—Donovan had by Nicci Geraghty, a north-west campaigner and fundraiser: Duchenne muscular dystrophy—that does not always “I have two nephews with Duchenne muscular dystrophy. This happen. is not only a cruel condition for my nephews to suffer from, but The hon. Gentleman mentioned the importance of also very harrowing at times for us as a family to watch each stage care advisers, as did the hon. Member for East Londonderry of progression knowing that the postcode lottery already exists in his intervention. Northern Ireland has a muscular throughout the country. This has a huge impact on survival rates and I don’t wish to see my nephews robbed of any chance they dystrophy care adviser, but unfortunately the funding have to lead the best quality of life possible.” for that care adviser is committed only until the end of March, and no long-term funding is in place. Not only The evidence provided makes a compelling case for are things not as they should be, but the existing service the urgent necessity of developing and improving and the commitments that have been made may well neuromuscular services in the north-west in order to disappear in the context of budget squeezes and other save money. Will the Minister write to NICE stressing changes. the importance of a NICE quality standard for Duchenne muscular dystrophy, as well as one on home ventilation We should use this occasion to call for better services, and respiratory support? Will he attend the next meeting planning and support, not just in the interest of individuals of the all-party group on muscular dystrophy on Wednesday with such conditions and their families but in the interest 9 March to update the group on progress, and will he of providing well-managed public services and savings. agree to meet clinicians who have been developing a The hon. Member for Weaver Vale mentioned unplanned neuromuscular curriculum with the Association of British emergency admissions. Some 2,000 people in Northern Neurologists? Thank you for calling me, Mr Davies. Ireland suffer from muscular disease, and their unplanned emergency admissions cost at least £2.25 million a year. Better and more appropriate and available services would 10 am lead to savings. Making people present themselves in a Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): It is a pleasure to less appropriate context puts pressure on other services serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I congratulate and adds to costs, which is not efficient. Cutting corners the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) on in such areas in the name of efficiency savings is wrong, securing this debate, which is important to many people. and some of the cuts and squeezes taking place are Although the title of the debate refers to neuromuscular counter-efficient. services in the north-west, my constituency neighbour I know that the Minister is particularly concerned the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) about the health services that the hon. Gentleman and I and I come from the north-west of a different island. have mentioned. The issues on which patients need to This is not revenge for the map-reading errors that engage the public policy system are not confined to many of us would have heard excuses for over the years clinical presentations. In the context of some other in border areas in Northern Ireland, nor is it an attempt changes that the Government are introducing, such as 87WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 88WH

[Mark Durkan] doing badly; to discuss the serious issues that we are not doing enough about; and to constantly agree, as public changes to disability living allowance and medical representatives, that more should be done and that assessments, I would hope that the Minister acts as an there should be better laws, better services and better advocate for patients with muscular dystrophy to ensure funding. If we cannot do enough of that in relation to that they are not overburdened by medical assessments. our own individual pressures, perhaps the British-Irish They find it difficult enough to navigate the system and Council and the Joint Ministerial Committee can together get the services that they expect; it should not be made ask some of the fundamental questions, at the heart of harder for them to get support such as disability living government, that were raised by the hon. Member for allowance and the mobility component. Weaver Vale. On the intended removal of the mobility component of DLA from people in residential care, many young adults with muscular dystrophy choose to live in a 10.11 am residential care setting because of their situation. Their John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I have the temerity to parents may have passed on, and other family members believe, Mr Davies, that this debate might finish early, may have moved on. It is nonsense for people who have so I will make a brief contribution. I congratulate the made that choice to lose the mobility component, with hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) on all the social support, access, personal outlets and socialising introducing the topic. His preamble was very touching—I that it allows. I hope that this debate is not purely about have a vision of him as an enormously public-spirited the important issue of clinical and medical services for child, raising money for charity. He has clearly carried those with muscular dystrophy; I hope that we will take that public-spiritedness into later life and into politics. I a holistic approach to people’s particular needs. disagree with him, however, about the poshness of The hon. Member for Weaver Vale mentioned specialist Wolseley cars—there were certainly some fairly ordinary multidisciplinary care. If we break the issue down to Wolseley cars in my day. our different locations, whether we are talking about I want to elaborate on my intervention on the hon. the new single commissioner for Northern Ireland, the Gentleman. He explicitly said in his articulate presentation Health and Social Care Board— that he has some concerns about the abolition of the specialist commissioning bodies that were set up by the Philip Davies (in the Chair): Order. I do not wish to strategic health authorities. Such concerns have been interrupt the hon. Gentleman’s flow, but I hope that he generally well recorded by a number of people with an appreciates that the terms of the debate relate specifically interest in a variety of rare diseases, not just those of a to the north-west. Although his comments on Northern muscular kind. Although renal problems are not particularly Ireland are interesting, I hope that he will tie them in to rare, the SHA in my constituency has dealt with the the situation in the north-west, as that is the title of the huge problem of elderly people needing renal services debate. by saying that those services need to be in Southport where the demand is. A facility has been produced that is beyond the cost limits of the primary care trust: in Mark Durkan: I fully accept your admonition, Mr Davies. fact, it is a regional facility and has been established on I made that point at the start. the basis of a regional strategy. If we consider specialist multidisciplinary care in The case has been well made across the piece that we relation only to different localities—whether primary need specialist commissioning groups. They have been care trusts and GP-led commissioning in the north-west necessary to deal with rare diseases and to construct the of England or purely within the devolved regions of necessary clinical networks. Often, people need not a Scotland or Northern Ireland—we might miss a point. specialist secondary care facility, but adequate facilities In the case of rarer diseases and conditions, a bigger and therapies in the primary care setting. Moreover, commitment and wider consideration at a UK level those facilities need to somehow integrate, talk to one provides a better context of scale. As we have heard, another and form a clinical network. individual GPs sometimes are not good at responding What will happen when the SHAs and, presumably, to particular needs or realising the importance of a the commissioning units that they set up go? I hope that condition because they do not see enough instances of the Minister will solve that problem. There are two it. That problem applies not only to GPs but, more possible answers to the question. The first is that we do broadly, to other services and public management bodies. not know. The other answer—the Minister may wish to I hope that, during the Minister’s tenure, the Joint enlarge upon this—is that we will get outposts of the Ministerial Committee, which brings together Ministers national commissioning board that will do very much from the devolved entities as well as those from Whitehall, the same job as the SHAs. If we have regional commissioning and the British-Irish Council will undertake initiatives groups, which are generally aware of what is required in to examine whether we can learn lessons from one the region, we replicate the existing solution, which may another. When I was a Minister in the Northern Ireland be perfected and improved in the process. Few would Assembly, I was privileged to attend the council’s very have problems with that. Some would question the first meeting. I remember the late Donald Dewar saying necessity to deconstruct then reconstruct everything, that one of the most undervalued art forms was plagiarism but such a solution is acceptable to many who are and that we needed a vehicle to bring together public concerned about a range of rare diseases, including policy planners and overseers, such as Ministers, from those that the hon. Gentleman has spoken about. Therefore, different parts of these islands. We need that not just in my single, simple contribution to this debate is to pose order to see who is doing well at what and to copy them, the Minister a question: is that the solution to the but in order to be honest and admit what we are all problem and, if not, what is? 89WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 90WH

10.14 am John Pugh: The hon. Lady’s point seems slightly tangential. If her argument is that what is wrong with Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) the arrangements is the current ignorance of GPs about (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, referral pathways, that situation has pre-existed these Mr Davies. It is also a pleasure to take part in Westminster arrangements and may succeed them. It is an independent Hall debates, which I usually find to be of much higher issue, is it not? It is not about structures. quality than those in the main Chamber. It is a shame that so few people attend these debates, because they Emily Thornberry: As the structures currently stand, can be outstanding. it is understood by GPs that they can receive back-up, I found today’s contribution by the hon. Member for through the specialised services national definition set, Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) profoundly moving, and I from the various networks that have already been established. am grateful to have had the opportunity to listen to If the national health service is to be grabbed by the him. The image of him selling rulers in the playground ankles, turned upside down and shaken hard, the problem will stay with me, and those with muscular dystrophy is that in the ensuing chaos, GPs will be distracted and, are lucky to have such a passionate and committed in the short term, people with muscular dystrophy might campaigner on their side and in their corner. I too shall not get the services that they deserve. That is a legitimate always remember to plagiarise Donald Dewar, but in a concern, which it is only right to lay at the Minister’s much less generous way than the hon. Member for door, because it is this Government who will be putting Foyle (Mark Durkan). He attributed to Donald Dewar the national health service through that process. the phrase that plagiarism was undervalued, but I fear As I have already asked, will the Minister confirm that I will simply use it as my own from now on. that specialist neuromuscular services will fall under the Joking aside, this is a serious issue. I was not aware remit of the national commissioning board? How will that there are 60 types of muscular dystrophy and that the board work with other services, such as community 1,000 children and adults in every 1 million of the nursing, speech and language therapy, and continuing population are affected by the disease. It is hugely care and physiotherapy, which I understand will be important to learn such things in my job. It is unfortunate commissioned by GPs? How will that work, and how that so few people know about them and that I have to will people with muscular dystrophy not fall between be in this position to learn about them. It is also of great the gaps? Will the Minister provide more information interest that 8,000 people are affected by the condition about regional commissioning—already mentioned during in the north-west region. We have heard how aggressive the debate—which might arise under the national Duchenne muscular dystrophy is, and the effect that it commissioning board? It would be reassuring for many has on young boys is a great worry. I have also learned to learn that the national commissioning board might about the stupendous work of Stefan Spinty; it is important have regional hubs, but we have yet to hear that stated to remind the Department of Health that he is trying to specifically. If it were to be stated this morning, it would run his network without any funding. be good news for many people. In broader terms, treatment for muscular dystrophy The other issue that I know the Minister shares my in the north-west faces two challenges. The hon. Member great passion for and interest in is the importance of for Foyle touched on the first, which is the challenge of increasing integration of services. People with the conditions cutbacks to services in general. We heard of the cutbacks we are discussing are clearly exactly the sort of people to special assistance for those with muscular dystrophy who need integrated services, so that they can have in the hon. Gentleman’s area. The cutbacks to mobility assistance in hospital—hopefully as an out-patient—and and adaptation in relation to people’s homes are larger care in the community. There is a continuing disconnect concerns. Those things are very worrying. between social care and health care. We all know that when those services do not connect properly, people end The other challenge relates to the changes in GP up as an emergency admission. We have already heard commissioning coming at us if the Health and Social that £68.5 million is spent across England on unpaid Care Bill is passed. We heard this morning that GPs emergency hospital admissions for people with muscle often do not have a great deal of expertise in relation to disease. muscular dystrophy. One could quote statistics that GPs will come across the condition only once or twice a year, It is clear that savings can be made, and the holy grail but the stories we have heard from the hon. Member for for all of us is to ensure that there is better integration Weaver Vale are more important. He talked about the between the various services—both between primary woman with muscular dystrophy whose daughter clearly and secondary care, and social care and health care. had the same condition, but when she told a doctor that The challenge in the near future is to consider exactly there was something wrong with the child, she was told how the Health and Social Care Bill will help with that that she was fussing and silly. On the back of that, we integration. There is concern that, in fact, it will do the heard that doctors have only about two hours of teaching opposite. on the condition, so we should all be worried about It is important that the legacy is protected. The exactly what will happen to its treatment when GPs take Muscular Dystrophy Campaign has been working over commissioning. The Government must reassure us constructively with the 10 NHS specialised commissioning about what the specific commissioning pathways will be groups across England, and significant progress has for this condition, and what the role of the national been made on improvements to neuromuscular services board will be in relation to muscular dystrophy. It is and on an increase in the number of muscular dystrophy only right that people with muscular dystrophy, their care advisers. In the context of the changes to the families and those who represent them are reassured national health service and the cutbacks in funding, that they will be treated properly and that their particular there is concern that a lot of that good work may fall by condition will be treated. the wayside. This morning would be a timely moment 91WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 92WH

[Emily Thornberry] authority has told me that £4.2 million has been spent on developing neuromuscular services over the past for the Minister to reassure us that the legacy will not be four years. As mentioned, a dedicated neuromuscular lost. Will he reassure me that the work being carried out service at Alder Hey has been set up to provide excellent by the regional specialised commissioning groups will care for children. Out of that £4.2 million, £289,000 was not be put in jeopardy following the proposed reforms invested as a commitment to the service provided and for their abolition? led by Dr Spinty. There appear to be some grounds for dispute over whether such services are funded or unfunded. 10.22 am However, we certainly need to keep ensuring that resources go in. There is a case to be made for ensuring that The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul resources are well spent. Paediatric critical care services Burstow): I congratulate the hon. Member for Weaver have improved with a dedicated paediatric intensive Vale (Graham Evans) on the passionate and powerful care transport team. There are additional beds at Alder way in which he clearly set out the case. He has done a Hey and the Royal Manchester for ventilation services, great service to the interests of those who suffer from with similar investment in both invasive and non-invasive muscular dystrophy and their families. I thank him for respiratory services for adults, too. securing the debate. I also congratulate him on the work he has done in his role as a member of the all-party Although those developments are welcome, the local group on muscular dystrophy, not only for his region NHS accepts that many issues still have to be addressed, but in raising the issue more thoroughly around the many of which have been aired today. The specialised country. I join him in paying tribute to the work of the commissioning group is responding to the Walton review Muscular Dystrophy Campaign and the North West by reviewing the region’s neuromuscular services. In Muscle Group. Both those organisations operate as essence, that review group—made up of clinicians, powerful advocates for people affected by these lifelong commissioners, patients and families—is aiming to address and life-limiting conditions. exactly the issues aired today: how to improve the poor support available to those diagnosed with neuromuscular It is 18 months since the all-party group published conditions in adulthood; how to address the variability the Walton report, which showed how far we had to and patchiness in the availability of specialised neuro-rehab go—as the hon. Gentleman has described only too and wheelchair services; and how to improve transitional clearly— to improve the care of those with muscular arrangements to help young people to move from paediatric dystrophy and other neuromuscular conditions. There to adult services. That is an absolutely key issue that are historic weaknesses. The intervention of my hon. comes up time and again in relation to rarer conditions Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh) just now when considering how well or how poorly the NHS underscored that point. There are weaknesses in the manages those vital transitions from child and adolescent current system and in how we organise the things that services to adult services. have rightly been highlighted by today’s debate. There is a real sense of urgency for change, not least The review group has updated the all-party group on because of the simple fact that we know about the huge muscular dystrophy on the review’s progress. On the personal and family costs of this condition and how it kind invitation that has been extended to me to attend impacts upon people’s lives. Unless care is properly the meeting of the all-party group, I do not know co-ordinated and well conducted, NHS resources will whether I can attend on the specific date mentioned. be wasted. They will be invested in the wrong places and However, I will certainly undertake to attend a meeting will not deliver good outcomes. That cannot be acceptable of the group as soon as I can and take questions from in our modern health care system. Several colleagues the group’s members. alluded to the costs. The figure of £13.6 million was I understand that the NHS North West specialised mentioned as the overall cost of unplanned hospital commissioning group will consider the review’s admissions for those with neuromuscular conditions in recommendations in March, and that the full report the north-west. If we analyse the journeys that people will be published shortly after. Clearly, I do not wish to make through our health care system, that shows the pre-empt that report in any way but, based on the actual cost. conversations I have been having in preparation for the Some hospital admissions are necessary and unavoidable. debate, I think that the review team is asking some A person who contracts a respiratory infection is a important and necessary questions. Those questions are good example of where there is an unavoidable need. on sharing best practice to ensure greater consistency, However, if we consider the figures in greater detail, the on work force planning, so that there is better co-ordination number of people admitted for non-invasive, elective and leadership across care pathways, and on finding care, shows that there are many preventable costs in efficiencies across the system in line with the region’s the system. That amounts to just under £5 million in the quality, innovation, prevention and productivity plans. north-west alone. Those costs could be avoided and the The key to all of this is to have a much clearer split of money could be spent better. That has to be a key responsibility—a sense of joined-up access across the message. It is not just about spending more; it is also care pathways to deliver a less fragmented and more about spending better in our system. We need to ensure person-centred approach to planning. I will say a bit that we consider the economic case for investing wisely more about the point that the hon. Member for Islington in services that can, in fact, provide a better quality of South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) raised on that life. We must also ensure that we avoid unnecessary in a moment. For me, the greatest challenge for the admissions in the first place. modern NHS is how to make sure that we have much Positive steps have been taken in the north-west. That more joined-up delivery. We have to accept that care progress has been hard fought, and it deserves to be and support for those with long-term conditions is a recognised and applauded. Indeed, the strategic health particular area where we do not get it right often 93WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 94WH enough, and it is unfinished business. There is too often The hon. Gentleman talked about the NICE guidelines. a disconnect between what is commissioned at a regional He is absolutely correct, as are other hon. Members level by specialised commissioning groups and what is who have spoken in the debate: we need greater consistency, available at a local level as commissioned by primary and being more consistent means being clear about care trusts. It not only confuses patients and compromises what “good” looks like. I have already mentioned NHS both their care and quality of life; it also leads to North West’s neuromuscular services framework, which inefficiency and duplication within the system. is a helpful starting point for bringing different organisations Putting that right means thinking radically. It means together. My hon. Friend the Member for Southport putting greater emphasis on managing pain and helping also raised the issue of the need for clinical networks, people with multiple conditions. It means finally developing and I will say a bit more about that in a moment. The a personalised system to end the attachment to bricks review group is also making the case for the clinical and mortar institutions and to reinvent health care in a networks and clinical network managers to provide modern context—a health system that is much more leadership, to share best practice, and to provide challenge about what can be delivered in the home and in the to commissioners. Again, that would seem to be a community, than it is about clinics and consulting groups. sensible approach not just in the north-west, but around the country. I would expect the NHS commissioning When it comes to long-term conditions such as muscular board to help to take that forward when it takes up the dystrophy, attention tends to fall on specialised reins of specialist commissioning. commissioning groups, and that is what has been rightly talked about today—the response in terms of tertiary Of course, another issue mentioned by hon. Members care. Tertiary care is clearly important. We can see, from is the need for clear guidelines and quality standards the important work at Alder Hey and Royal Manchester from NICE to cover muscular dystrophy and various children’s hospital, the difference that such specialist aspects of the delivery of care and treatment for people centres can make. However, there also needs to be an with the condition. I hope that Members understand equal onus on community-based support—the ongoing that it is not for me to direct NICE. Its strength as an day-to-day care that is so important to support quality organisation rests on its independence from Government, of life and to keep people out of hospital in the first and therefore I will not compromise that. What I will place. do, and which is important to do, is ensure that it is made aware of today’s debate, so that it can take it into Primary care trusts and in the future GP commissioning account in its deliberations. The East of England specialised consortia and health and well-being boards, not the commissioning group is leading on quality standards specialised commissioning teams, will be responsible for work and service specifications, so there is work to help that. They will shape the services that clinicians and influence that going forward. social care need to provide to meet the needs of patients, Another influence on NICE are the conversations such as hydrotherapy, wheelchair services, speech and with the leadership group of the Neurological Alliance language therapy, respiratory support and help with on how it can develop stronger clinical advice for a swallowing. It is therefore essential to have better range of rare neurological conditions. I strongly urge co-ordination, a better link-up between commissioning the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign to actively engage teams across health and social care and beyond, and, with that leadership group, so that it is also at the table rather than individual bits, a person-centred approach with NICE. NICE is part of that forum, which presents to planning across the whole care pathway. That needs a an important opportunity to achieve faster progress whole life course approach, which is why I return to the and effective action. We are also, in the context of the point that we need a focus on transitions between work of health and well-being boards and GP childhood services and adult services. The review’s commissioning consortia, looking at how to update the recommendations will help to bring that about in the guidance for joint strategic needs assessments. I urge the north-west. I look forward, as I am sure the hon. Muscular Dystrophy Campaign to have an input, through Member for Weaver Vale does, to its publication and to the Neurological Alliance, on that work, too. it being put into effect. Equally, the National Quality Board is working on a To take the case of specialist physiotherapy, the SHA broad library of quality standards to cover all areas of recognises that there is pressure on tertiary centres, NHS care. Again, there will be opportunities for the which is something that the hon. Gentleman talked Muscular Dystrophy Campaign and others to feed into about. The challenge must be met by a whole system that process. Input through the leadership group of the approach that makes full use of the available resources. Neurological Alliance would be a very effective way of NHS North West tells me that it is already mapping out getting its voice heard. in more detail what neurophysiotherapy services are available across the north-west. The current specialist Careers and training have been referred to in the physiotherapists are being encouraged to work with debate. I suggest that, rather than a Minister trying to community physiotherapy to improve their skills and to dare to dictate the curricula of the medical professions, help them to offer appropriate services at a local level. it might be more prudent to ensure that they are also That outreach to upskill other parts of the work force aware of this debate, with a covering letter from me to will be a key way to improve delivery. I understand that draw it to their attention so that they can take it into Manchester PCT is also doing some exciting work in account as they reflect on future curricula. piloting a neuro-rehab service that treats people at On the issue of advice and support for patients, a home or in the community, rather than in a clinic. That strong case has been made for the case-management brings into relief the potential benefits of integrating approach. It is important that we look outwards to tertiary and community-based services—of how, by patients and their families. At the moment, people with doing things differently, we can improve services for long-term conditions can feel disempowered and frustrated patients. by the complexity of the system. It can be a fight, as the 95WH Neuromuscular Care (North-West)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Neuromuscular Care (North-West) 96WH

[Paul Burstow] we could do much more by moving to a national commissioning board that can streamline, simplify and hon. Member for Weaver Vale has described, to understand ensure greater consistency around contracting for these what is available. As the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark services. Durkan) rightly said, it should not be the case that That brings me to the other element of the new every time someone enters the system it feels like they architecture, which is general practitioner commissioning are navigating it for the first time, as if no one else has consortia. Clearly, integrated planning between consortia ever gone through that before. That is a perfect way of and the NHS commissioning board will be essential, describing how the system should not feel and how it just as joint working between primary care trusts and must not feel as we go forward. The hon. Member for specialised commissioning groups is at present. I am Weaver Vale described the example of Liam. That example keen that strategic health authorities will encourage GP makes a very strong case for increasing the number of pathfinders, along with the early implementers of health neuromuscular care co-ordinators, who are known to and well-being boards, to work with the specialised be extremely helpful in improving patient care and commissioning groups to explore how the relationship outcomes. I understand that that is something that the can work best on the ground so that we develop the best review group is exploring and it will, through its contracting case examples to inform the system as we move to the arrangements that go beyond that, help to drive that new arrangements. forward. I have no doubt in my mind that there is a As the hon. Member for Weaver Vale rightly highlighted, strong economic case for the co-ordinators. GP consortia will need advice and guidance as they take I am also pleased that the Manchester PCT is looking up the reins. There will be a great opportunity for at how personal budgets can be used to help people patient groups to step in and provide support in that with neuromuscular conditions to get the help they way, and I would certainly encourage that kind of active need. Personal budgets are more than a lever to give engagement. Also, health and well-being boards will patients more control. They can be a catalyst for bringing have a key role as system integrators—they will have a services together around the needs of the individual— major part to play in developing the more joined-up another way in which we can integrate at an individual system. We will consider whether that is enough or level. In fact, a number of the pilots that are testing whether we need to do more as we scrutinise the Health personal health budgets are actively involved people and Social Care Bill clause by clause in the coming with neuromuscular conditions. weeks. The most effective way of operating will be The final question, asked by both my hon. Friend the through the regional networks that the Neurological Member for Southport and the hon. Member for Islington Alliance is setting up. Again, I hope that the Muscular South and Finsbury, is how do we maintain continuity Dystrophy Campaign will be part of that. during the transition period? The Health and Social Yes, we have to ensure that we get specialist Care Bill is clear that highly specialised services would, commissioning right, but we also have to ensure that we in future, be commissioned by the NHS commissioning get commissioning for long-term conditions in general board. I can confirm that this condition is included right, and we have to do that at a local level. among them, as it is already designated as a specialist commissioning area. The board will decide how best to I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate organise itself to deliver, on a case-by-case basis, different and for setting out the issues so clearly, and I thank commissioning activities on different specialist conditions. other hon. Members for their contributions. We know It would be wrong, when the Government are saying in that there is much to do to improve the care of those the Bill that we are giving autonomy to an NHS with neuromuscular conditions, and that we are not commissioning board, for the Minister to then specify, doing enough yet. We know that the system that we in an Adjournment debate, to the nth degree precisely inherited has not delivered uniform and consistent access how the NHS commissioning board should discharge to services—we must do more. We also know that that function. financial pressures should not block progress because, all too often, action here saves money that can then be The NHS commissioning board has that responsibility, better spent on improving the quality of services. and that comes with a responsibility on patient and public engagement as well. It is important that lessons I look forward to reading the final report of the from existing experience of specialised commissioning north-west review group—and, indeed, the other reviews are drawn together to inform the way in which those that are taking place—and I hope that it can be a responsibilities are discharged in the new system. I will catalyst for real improvements in the years ahead. The undertake to ensure that this debate is drawn to the hon. Gentleman is right to say that we have to translate attention of those who are doing that work at the the intentions behind the review into tangible actions moment. Again, I think that the Specialised Healthcare that transform the lives of his and many other hon. Alliance provides the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign Members’ constituents up and down the land. with a way in to influence and shape those opportunities. I note from comments to the Health Committee before 10.42 am the general election that there was a recognition that Sitting suspended. 97WH 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Unscrupulous Builders 98WH

Unscrupulous Builders from UK home owners by cowboy builders every year. We are told that 2.4 million people have had problems with cold-calling property repairers; it is imperative that 10.58 am we take action. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Thank you, Mr Davies, for giving me the opportunity to speak in Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I congratulate the debate. I welcome the Minister, and look forward to my hon. Friend on securing the debate, and support the his response after we have all spoken. clarity that he seeks through a licensing regime. Does he As an officer of the all-party groups on ageing agree that one of the strongest arguments in favour of and older people and on consumer affairs and trading that is the frustration shared by many of our constituents? standards, I feel that the issue of unscrupulous builders One of my constituents, in pursuit of justice after an is of the utmost importance and warrants the thorough experience with a cowboy builder, has written to the consideration it will be given now. I come from a Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, the Insolvency business background—I run a small company and have Service, the Property Ombudsman, the Legal Complaints worked as a business development director in the corporate Service and the Trading Standards Institute, but so far sector—so I am not a politician whose default position to no avail. I welcome my hon. Friend’s attempts to is, “Let’s have more regulation.” However, in the building bring some clarity to this area of concern. and renovation trade, many rogue builders across the UK have been ripping people off for far too long. Stephen Lloyd: I thank my hon. Friend for his extremely In my judgment, something must be done, and the well-made intervention. I have heard about such cases Government must take steps to protect vulnerable people again and again both in my constituency and as an from cowboy builders. There are three core issues to officer of the all-party group for consumer affairs and address: first, the routine targeting of the most vulnerable trading standards. We are in a ludicrous position where people in our society; secondly, the way that unscrupulous criminals are ripping off people, often elderly people, traders create an unfair marketplace and plague the up and down the country. However, because they are legitimate building industry; and thirdly, how we can clever at using—or abusing—the law, it is almost impossible act to stop the proliferation of fraudulent work. to pin them down and seek redress. That is an absurdity, Recently, a rogue trader was convicted in my constituency. and times need to change. That was a good result considering how difficult it is to The issue is not simply about providing adequate prosecute such criminals under current legislation. During protection to the public; the trouble caused by such the proceedings, it came to light that he had accepted activities is far-reaching and widespread. I know some cash and cheques from customers in Eastbourne for tremendous local builders in Eastbourne, but the actions sums of up to £23,000. One of the victims was an of the cowboy builders impede legitimate businesses elderly widower, which is not uncommon. He received and create an unfair marketplace for the many—the redress from the television show “Cowboy Builders.” vast majority of builders, renovation companies and The programme surprised my constituent by fixing the tradespeople who are wholly legitimate. The problem damage done to his property while he was in hospital causes particular difficulty for the small firms that we recovering from a heart attack. That was a good deed are counting on to help bring us out of recession. and much appreciated, even if it was for the purposes of Because the unscrupulous individuals who prey on the entertainment. Although we can take comfort from the public operate outside the law, they often do not pay happy ending to my constituent’s ordeal, it is unacceptable VAT. That gives cowboy builders an illegitimate financial that he felt compelled to turn to a television show rather advantage by enabling them to charge much lower than to the authorities. However, given the lack of prices—20% lower—than responsible legitimate companies, adequate, robust legislation to protect citizens from thereby distorting the marketplace and creating unfair such criminals, his decision is easily understood and competition. was, frankly, wholly rational. That practice results in a significant loss of tax revenue, We have a duty to those whom we serve to do because much of the work that would be invoiced is something about the weakness of the current legislation, currently paid cash in hand and is off the books, and I hope that colleagues will join me in calling for a resulting in an enormous revenue loss to the Exchequer. formal consultation into the merits of a compulsory Given the current economic situation, it would be foolish licensing system for the construction industry. Gangs to pass up the opportunity to clamp down on such such as the group of Gloucestershire scam builders behaviour. It is deeply unfair to law-abiding citizens convicted and jailed in January for defrauding householders who pay their taxes to continue allowing fraudsters and of nearly £1 million cannot be allowed to continue charlatan building companies not to contribute their unabated. The three men involved conned more than fair share. Beyond that, a further worry must be addressed. 50 people in 14 counties, and I extend my sincere Around 80% of the informal economy—sometimes known appreciation to Gloucestershire police, who worked tirelessly as the black economy—is work undertaken by companies and diligently throughout the three-year investigation that are completely outside the tax system. I have already to bring the fraudsters to justice. I echo the sentiments mentioned VAT, but such evaders are much more likely of the detective chief inspector who led the investigation. to avoid other key legal obligations, such as health and He characterised the perpetrators as, “Criminals, pure safety legislation. That puts their customers not only at and simple.” a financial, pecuniary risk, but at physical risk. Such unlawful behaviour must be taken seriously. Consumer rights experts report an average of 100,000 Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Everyone has seen complaints about rogue builders each year, and trading the programme, “Cowboy Builders”, that the hon. standards organisations reveal that £170 million is stolen Gentleman referred to. It illustrates that a small number 99WH Unscrupulous Builders9 FEBRUARY 2011 Unscrupulous Builders 100WH

[Jim Shannon] When hard-sell tactics are used, many individuals feel trapped in their homes and have nowhere to retreat, of people will take advantage of vulnerable people. leading to increased pressure and a desire to rid their Does the hon. Gentleman feel that one way of monitoring home of the unwanted guests as quickly as possible, and keeping an eye on things and regulating the system often—crucially—by accepting the service being offered. would be to use local government to oversee work and In fact, there are even reports of people being driven to say whether it should be passed? Perhaps that would be their bank immediately to draw out large sums of one way of resolving the situation. money when faced with threatening demands.

Stephen Lloyd: That is a good point. It is not the Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): I am conclusion that I have reached, but it is a strong point. grateful to my hon. Friend for securing a debate that is The challenge with local government oversight is that it important to constituents from throughout the country varies a lot around the country. Some local authorities and represented by hon. Members on both sides of the would make it a high priority, while others would not. It Chamber. Does he agree that one way in which we is an option, but the conclusion I have drawn is that the could consider regulating the sector is by extending Government must start taking steps to look at a licensing what we have done with the gas industry to the building proposal. industry? The Gas Safe register gives older people confidence that the engineers coming into their home I am aware that there are already programmes to help are qualified and professional. regulate the construction industry and mitigate fears, and I do not wish to undermine the valuable work of Stephen Lloyd: I thank my hon. Friend for his organisations such as TrustMark and the National House- intervention. That is a good idea as long as it is managed Building Council. However, those schemes are taken properly. My concern is that it might end up a bit like up mainly by large companies that operate at national TrustMark. Many people do not know about that scheme or regional level, and they are not the problem. The and even among those who do know about it, there is administration and cost involved in registering with some concern that it is not robustly policed. I like the such schemes is a natural deterrent to the individuals idea, but we have come to the point when we need to and small firms that I, and many of my colleagues, want introduce licensing. I will explain how I propose that we to help. Because the vast majority of substandard work fund it. is carried out by individuals or small gangs of rogue In my judgment and that of many others, none of the builders, the current measures are inadequate. current legislation is able sufficiently to protect the According to Local Authority Building Control, public from such threats. I hope that hon. Members will TrustMark has insufficient funding to deal with the forgive me because I am going to give them a bit of a problem. Therefore, we need serious consideration about history lesson. The Pedlars Act 1871—that is a wonderful how to proceed with more effective methods of regulation. phrase; “the Pedlars Act”—excludes virtually all callers The seriousness of the matter is heightened by the involving property maintenance and repairs. The well-known target of the illegitimate traders—older cancellation of contract concluded away from business people, who are often the most vulnerable in our society. premises section of the consumer protection regulations An ageing population coupled with increased home is an important statutory consumer measure, but it will ownership necessitates a Government response. generally offer little or no protection from criminal Between 1981 and 2001, the proportion of the population practices when the traders’ names and addresses are not over 75 years old increased by more than 30%. The known. Large amounts of cash change hands, yet there number of pensioners living alone increased by 150,000 is no intention of operating in a fair manner. That is between 1991 and 2002, and now accounts for 14.4% of absolutely appalling. It is systemic and we simply cannot all households. That means that there are now more let it continue. Section 16 of the Theft Act 1968 has left than 5 million pensioner-only households. Let me be a loophole in legislation, as its definition of theft covers clear: MPs in the House know that unscrupulous builders only actions when a person, by deception, dishonestly target vulnerable, often elderly, people. That is a growing obtains property belonging to another with the intention market, and unless something is done, those builders of permanently depriving the other of it. will have ever more opportunities to rip people off. Cowboy builders are fully aware of the flaw in consumer Numerous investigations have shown that unscrupulous protection and know that as long as they carry out at builders are taking full advantage of the gaps in our least some activity, the incident will be classified as a legislation and our rising pensioner population. Crooked contractual disagreement and therefore not a criminal salespeople are commonly overbearing, persistent and offence. Prosecution of those perpetrators is very tough, totally unscrupulous. That is a particular problem for as the necessary evidence is often very difficult to obtain; older people, as they often live alone and are trapped by I could go on and on. That is why the market has been such intrusive door-to-door sales techniques. Once a expanding and the actions of those deplorable individuals salesperson is in their home, a vulnerable individual has have got bigger every year. They know the law is an ass. limited means by which to end the transaction. The There is a logistical problem for any witnesses asked option of asking someone to leave is not always available to stand up in court and face those who wronged them. to them because many home owners feel too intimidated That is a particular concern when the victims are already in that situation to broach things so directly. That may among the most vulnerable. It is another reason why sound absurd, but our experience as Members of action must be taken to halt the spread of these fraudulent Parliament, dealing with a large amount of casework criminals. and listening to constituents, who are often elderly, I am coming to the end of my speech because I want means that we know that they will be too frightened to to give the Minister plenty of time to reply. In raising ask the cowboy builder to leave. these issues, I make it absolutely clear that I do not want 101WH Unscrupulous Builders9 FEBRUARY 2011 Unscrupulous Builders 102WH to cast aspersions on the legitimate business men and dealing with cowboy builders to sort out the problem. women who provide an important and welcome buildings Through dealing with that, I understood how difficult and renovation service to many people up and down the these problems can be. My hon. Friend the Member for country.In my constituency, a noted builder, Ellis Builders, Eastbourne was therefore right to bring the issue to the has given me advice on how I can present and pitch a House. Although I do not agree with his proposal for a proposal in a way that will work for legitimate builders. compulsory licensing scheme, let me say up front that I I appreciate the support that its managing director, hope that when he hears some of my other remarks, he Derek Godfrey, gave me. will know that the Government take the issue seriously, We must consider the possible courses of action open along with many other consumer affairs where there is to us and the ways in which we can aid genuine tradesmen consumer detriment. Some of the general reforms that and end the scourge of rogue builders. Naturally, a we want to make and the general research that we are central aspect of any reform would have to be an undertaking will help to ensure that this issue and increase in public awareness. The public must know others like it can be better dealt with in future. how to confirm whether the workers being hired are Let me say for the record, and so that my hon. Friend legitimate. One reason why the current voluntary schemes understands why I am less attracted by his proposal, are ineffectual is the lack of public knowledge surrounding that there are issues of practicality and proportionality, programmes such as TrustMark. I believe that to make which I know that he, as a small business person, will be any significant advance in protecting the well-being of very mindful of. Many people are employed in the individuals, it is critical that we provide one clear method construction industry. The UK construction industry is for assessing the competence of a building tradesman. one of the largest in Europe, with more than 2 million On that point, I agree with the National Federation of people employed and 200,000 businesses. That gives a Roofing Contractors and join it in advocating a means sense of what a compulsory licensing scheme would of appraisal that will provide confidence that the tradesman have to do and the sheer scale and size of it. That would or woman in someone’s home is competent, trustworthy bring with it costs and complexity. and reliable. As my hon. Friend rightly said, some rogue, cowboy There are many ways in which that may be achieved. builders behave appallingly, but we must balance a Successful licensing schemes already operating in Australia number of issues as we put together our measures, and I and the US could provide a useful starting point for the hope to reassure him about those measures in the consultation that surely must follow this debate. However, course of my speech. I am sure that he will agree that at such a difficult time for our economy, I appreciate the vast majority of people operating in the construction that we must be extremely careful not to overburden a industry do good jobs, work hard and perform well. We crucial sector of that economy—construction. It is necessary are talking about a relatively small number of rogue to strike a careful balance. We need to provide regulation traders, and the question, therefore, is whether we put and protection for the consumer on the one hand without huge cost and complexity on 2 million people and disproportionately increasing costs or deterring compliance 200,000 businesses to target that tiny minority. I say on the other. that not least because it is unclear whether a compulsory It is time to consider seriously a national licensing licence scheme would deal with the rogues who tend to scheme. The fee need not be too expensive. It could be work outside the system. One would have to be sure, £500 per annum and tiered, with smaller companies even under my hon. Friend’s proposals, that the enforcement paying less and larger ones more. Any legitimate builder measures were such that one could catch these people. I would see that as a worthwhile investment in their have some concerns about such issues, not least when business. It would give the public the security of knowing they are married to the costs and complexities that that a builder was licensed. They could say to someone, would come about under such a scheme. “Do you have a licence?” If the answer was no, they Let me reassure my hon. Friend about one or two could say, “You won’t be doing any work in my home.” points that came up in the debate. We want a proportionate If the answer was yes, they could open the door. In my scheme. Through licensing and regulation, we want to judgment, that sum, if it was tiered as well, would be target those trades where there is a high risk to public sufficient to fund a licensing body. safety, and my hon. Friend’s points about health and We cannot keep sweeping this issue under the carpet. safety were extremely well made. That is why the gas The legitimate building trade—companies of all sizes— safe register scheme, which used to be known as the deserves more. The public deserve more. We can do CORGI scheme, is important. It deals with the technical more. To misquote the great and one and only Gary competence of people who ply their trade. There is also Cooper, “It is time to run the cowboys out of town.” the competent persons scheme for electrical work. Clearly, gas and electricity raise other issues, and we need to 11.17 am ensure that they are properly regulated. However, it The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, would be disproportionate to have similar schemes for Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I congratulate the work done by painters, decorators and others. my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen I hope my hon. Friend realises that we are trying to Lloyd) on securing the debate. I thank all hon. Members take a proportionate approach that ensures that while for contributing. Listening to my hon. Friends the legitimate businesses doing a fantastic job are not penalised Members for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) and for St Austell with costs, measures are targeted on the real cowboys. If and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) in particular, it was my hon. Friend looks at the legislative framework, he clear that this issue affects many of our constituents. will see that it is designed to clamp down on underhand I can confirm that it has affected my constituents. I practices. The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 represented one of my own members of staff on this requires traders to provide a service with reasonable issue. She ended up having to use the TV programme care and skill, in a timely manner and at a reasonable 103WH Unscrupulous Builders9 FEBRUARY 2011 Unscrupulous Builders 104WH

[Mr Edward Davey] we announced £3.2 million of funding for scambuster teams so that they can continue the fight against rogue cost. The Government are examining how the Act traders and builders who deliberately set out to defraud might be modernised and simplified so that consumers consumers. The fact that we have been able to continue have a clearer understanding of their rights, including this important work, despite the tough choices that we their rights to redress when they have experienced shoddy have had to make elsewhere, is a clear sign of how workmanship or paid for goods that turn out to be important we think this issue is. Rogue builders and defective. I hope that that work will lead to ideas that others who prey on vulnerable and elderly people will improve the situation. not be tolerated, and scambuster teams will lead the The general consumer rights set out in the Act are fight against them. My hon. Friend valiantly champions accompanied by specific legislation to protect consumers the needs of elderly people in all areas of public policy, from unfair selling in their own home. Builders, of and I hope that he will talk to scambuster teams in his course, fall within the scope of those provisions. The area to ensure that constituents who are occasionally Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home preyed on by rogue builders are aware of the teams’ or Place of Work etc. Regulations 2008—I am sure my work. hon. Friend is familiar with them—give consumers the I appreciate that it can be difficult for consumers to right to cancel a contract they have signed without judge whether a builder is genuine. For extra peace of penalty within seven days. That cooling-off period is a mind, therefore, they can look for tradespeople who valuable protection, especially for those who may have belong to approved traders schemes. This is where the felt pressurised into agreeing to have work done as a TrustMark scheme, which has been mentioned, comes result of the tactics of an unscrupulous builder. My in. TrustMark is an easy way for consumers to identify hon. Friend will note that those regulations came in in a builder who has agreed to abide by industry standards 2008, and they are still being rolled out, so an understanding of competence and fair trading and to be independently of them is still developing among many trading standards inspected to ensure that they are meeting those standards— officers and the wider public. Those measures are in the point my hon. Friend made about enforcement. place, however, and I think that they will be increasingly Those in the industry who are approved by one of the effective. operators of the TrustMark scheme are independently As regards other protections given to consumers, it is inspected, which can give people reassurance. This is a important to ensure that the enforcers—at national free service to the consumer. Last year, there were level, it is the Office of Fair Trading, but there are also 3.5 million inquiries, with people checking out builders local authority trading standards officers—have the right and other tradespeople. My hon. Friend is right that we tools at their disposal to deal with dodgy builders. The need to raise awareness of the scheme, but the 3.5 million Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations inquiries last year suggest that an awful lot of people 2008—again, they are relatively recent—give the enforcement are aware of it. That awareness is growing, and we need bodies more effective means of tackling unscrupulous to continue to help it grow. In addition to the TrustMark practices and rogue traders. Indeed, they ban traders in scheme, many local authorities run assured trader schemes all sectors from unfair commercial practices against in their areas to help residents find trustworthy local consumers, particularly in relation to the sale and marketing builders. Again, I would encourage consumers to use of services. They set out broad rules, which enforcers those schemes wherever they exist. can use to determine whether a practice is unfair. As I The debate is timely because we need to ensure that said about the other set of regulations from 2008, these colleagues across the House and others who are interested regulations are still relatively new. Trading standards in this issue know that the Government take it seriously. officers are beginning to use them and beginning to As we look at general consumer legislation and do a lot understand their use. The regulations are spreading best of detailed work on it and the consumer landscape, we practice. These tools have come into the toolkit relatively will be thinking about the difficult cases that have been recently, and they will help. They also ban any commercial mentioned. In the back of our minds, we will be thinking practices that use harassment, coercion or undue influence about how provisions will apply to cases in which constituents that is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s have been very badly done by. I give my hon. Friend my freedom of choice in relation to goods or services. assurance as consumer affairs Minister that the Government If we take those various measures together, it is clear will bear such cases in mind as we review the legislation— that the legislative framework is quite robust, but I indeed, we are doing that very actively. would not claim that it is perfect, and we always need to I reassure my hon. Friend that regulations are now in think about how it could be improved. That is why the force—I admit that they are very recent—and that they Government support a project being undertaken jointly will assist our work. I assure him that TrustMark is a by the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission very good scheme, and I would encourage hon. Members to examine how private law might be reformed to provide to promulgate it, and local authority trader schemes, consumers with a clear, simple right of redress when when they talk to constituents. they are victims of misleading or aggressive selling. My I thank my hon. Friend once again for bringing this hon. Friend may be aware of that because it comes from matter to the House. Although I have not been tempted a Liberal Democrat consumer document called “Are by the compulsory license scheme that he so eloquently you being served?”, which he may have read before the proposed, I hope that I have reassured him that many election. other measures that are in place, or which we are considering, will have a good effect on the problems In addition to providing effective remedies for people that he raised. who have suffered at the hands of rip-off builders, it is important that we put resources into preventing problems 11.29 am from occurring in the first place. At the end of last year, Sitting suspended. 105WH 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 106WH

Flood Risk Management 15 feet above its summer level. When that happens, the Kings Arms public house gets flooded. I am sorry to say that there is no defence in the world that will stop it [JIM SHERIDAN in the Chair] being flooded several times a year. It almost trades on the novelty of being built in such a way that people can 2.30 pm simply hose down the mess and get on with the drinking. Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): There is a Hundreds of private homes in York—and hundreds contradiction at the heart of the Government’s policy of businesses in York; I shall say more about them on flood alleviation. In answer to a parliamentary question later—suffer catastrophically when the river rises. In about flood risk, the Minister told me that 2000, when the River Ouse rose to its highest recorded “The latest UK climate science confirms that rising sea levels level in 400 years, some 350 homes were flooded, and and more severe and frequent rain storms are likely to occur—resulting hundreds more came within a whisker of devastation. I in increasing flood and coastal erosion risk.”—[Official Report, left my job as a junior Minister then and went back to 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 922W.] York to join Silver Command, which managed the He said that the Environment Agency suggests that crisis. I remember clearly the November night when river flows may increase by 20% by later this century. hundreds of local residents and 500 soldiers from the On the same day but in answer to another question, 2nd Signal Regiment were sandbagging the Leeman the Minister said that the flood risk management budget, road and Water End area, putting sandbags on top of paid by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural the existing flood defences to protect the homes behind. Affairs to the Environment Agency, would fall from Those homes came within a centimetre of being inundated. £354 million this financial year—the Government inherited About 380 homes most certainly would have been that figure from the former Labour Administration—to inundated, and perhaps another 120 were at risk. Indeed, £259 million next year. That is a reduction of 27%. It the leader of York city council was evacuated from his does not make sense to reduce public investment in home; he lived in the area at the time. flood risk management when those risks, and the costs I shall quote from a statement prepared for this that flow from those risks, are increasing. debate by York city council’s chief engineer: Capital funding in Yorkshire has been hit harder than “Water End is shown in the York Strategic Flood Risk Plan as in any other region. According to a letter from the being an area of Rapid Inundation and failure of the existing deputy chairman of the Environment Agency to the defences in times of a severe flood could result in a depth of water Yorkshire regional flood defence committee, funding inside properties in excess of l m, in a very short period of time.” has fallen by more than 50% compared with last year. I remember preparing evacuation plans 10 years ago. Why has my region suffered a larger cut in Government Our fear was not that we would have seepage and slowly funding than all the others? rising water levels in people’s homes, but that the flood The consequences for Yorkshire have been blunt. defences might collapse. The engineers believed that Three schemes in the Environment Agency’s programme that was a real danger, so much so that we tipped were to have gone ahead in 2011-12. All three have been thousands of tons of sand and gravel behind the built axed. The York scheme would have provided improved flood defences to strengthen them. If they had collapsed, flood defences for the Water End and Leeman road we could have had a wall of water running through the areas of the city. There was a scheme for Thirsk. There centre of York, which would have caused absolute was a large scheme to protect Leeds city centre, and devastation. York still needs flood defences to be provided in the The City of York council received advice from the Clementhorpe area, but that was not included in the Association of British Insurers about the cost of repairs original programme. if the Leeman road and Water End flood defences were The Environment Agency tells me that those schemes overtopped. The calculations were based on 382 homes have been deferred indefinitely, but I was pleased to being inundated. ABI’s advice was that the cost of hear the Minister saying in response to an urgent question repairing each of those homes would be between £20,000 in the House earlier today that the schemes have not and £40,000. The total cost of repairs for one flooding been cancelled. Will he explain to my constituents the event would be £11.5 million, almost twice the cost of exact status of those schemes? If they have not been the flood defence scheme that the Environment Agency cancelled, I presume that it is envisaged that they will go has deferred. The community largely consists of two- ahead. Will he give us a time scale for when those bedroom Victorian railway cottages. Many of them are schemes are to go ahead? privately rented, and others are owned by people on low to modest incomes—the priority group that the Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): Does my Government say should be helped by the new flood hon. Friend not agree that there is considerable urgency defence plans. for flood schemes in the city of York? I shall be talking Ten years ago, 100 or so homes in the Clementhorpe about Leeds later, but when I lived in the city of York area of York were inundated. It received a lot of attention the Kings Arms was flooded almost to extinction almost because one of the streets involved is called River street. every other year. Does he not agree that we badly need The papers all carried pictures of firemen evacuating these schemes, especially those for York and Leeds? people by boat. That area, too, needs protection. A temporary scheme has been provided by a private Hugh Bayley: The River Ouse, which flows through benefactor, but it does not work as the council would the centre of York, drains water from about like, so it is not being used at the moment. Before this 3,000 sq km of the Pennines. When there is heavy debate, I asked the Association of British Insurers and rainfall, the river rises enormously. At the moment, individual insurers, and I am grateful for their advice. York has severe floods; the river has risen by about For obvious reasons, insurers are always cautious about 107WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 108WH

[Hugh Bayley] public expenditure would be in relation to capital schemes. We know that there is a current account deficit, but telling the public how much they pay out in claims. One even when Governments are running a current account told me that in York it has paid out £12.5 million in deficit, they continue to invest over the long term, and claims for flood damage—800 claims in all—over the rightly so. When someone buys a house, they take out a past decade. The claims peaked in 2000 when it paid out mortgage for 25 years. When the Government invest in in respect of 286 properties, and again in 2007 when it flood defences, they also need to borrow and pay back paid out in respect of 247 properties. The average claim over a long period of time and pay back, because flood per property flooded was £25,000. risk is a long-term risk and the flood defence will be When we debate the problems and risks of flooding, there for 50 or 100 years and the capital scheme needs to we often talk about home owners and households. It is be financed over that period. quite right that individual people—our constituents— should be at the front of our minds, but we must not Tony Cunningham (Workington) (Lab): Perhaps the forget that businesses are very seriously affected, too. I best example that I can give my hon. Friend is Carlisle see that my hon. Friend the Member for Workington in Cumbria, which was flooded a number of years ago. (Tony Cunningham) is nodding his head. He has had a In 2009, as a result of a £35 million investment in flood much more recent experience of flooding than, thankfully, defences, Carlisle did not flood. As a Government, we we have had in York. spent £35 million to prevent flooding. If we had not spent that amount and Carlisle had been flooded, it is In response to the Government cuts in capital flood estimated that it would have cost between £70 million defence schemes, Gary Williamson, the chief executive and £80 million to clean up and repair the damage. of the Leeds, York and North Yorkshire chamber of Surely that is a good example of how we need to spend commerce said: in the short term to ensure that we are not stacking up “I find it extremely concerning that the Government would long-term problems. take such a gamble with York and North Yorkshire economies. The cost of flood damage can have a devastating effect on businesses and is something that small, independent businesses Hugh Bayley: My hon. Friend gives an extremely and retailers may struggle to recover from.” good example. The Environment Agency says that the cost-benefit ratio of its schemes in the pipeline are 8:1, The impact of the floods in 2000 on businesses in York which was confirmed by the Environment, Food and was catastrophic. Visits to main attractions, such as Rural Affairs Committee’s recent excellent report on York Minster and the Jorvik Viking Centre, dropped by flood and water management legislation. That means 94%, from 5,425 in November 1999 to 356 in November that we get back much more than we pay. If we leave it 2000. Once the flood had gone, the number of visits was to each individual to try to insure themselves—if they down by 86%. Bed occupancy in hotels was down by a are able to insure themselves—the cost to them and the third. Retail business was down between 30% and 50%—it private insurance companies will be much greater than varied from shop to shop—in the busy pre-Christmas the cost of investing in flood protection. Moreover, if shopping period. The York Minster shop suffered a we were to relax the squeeze on publicly funded capital 72% fall in sales. Overall, as a result of the floods in schemes, the jobs that would be created would be in the 2000, there were 200,000 fewer visitors to the city, private sector, precisely where we need to create jobs to costing something in the region of £10 million, and that pull the economy back on track and to get the Government’s ignores all the other business and commerce in the city fiscal position looking better than it does now. that suffered as a result of the flood and the subsequent severing of a railway line. The railway is an extremely I ask the Minister to talk this matter through with the important commercial highway, pipeline or communication Treasury in the run-up to the Budget. I do not expect link for York. When the line just south of York in Selby any feedback in the purdah period before the Budget. was severed by the flooding, it cost the city far, far more. None the less, I hope that his Department will make representations, so that if the Chancellor is talking What will the Minister do to get the Leeman road about relaxing the squeeze on public expenditure, he and Water End scheme back on track, working with me, looks at capital works, particularly the cost-effective as MP for the city, and the local authority, the City of investments in flood alleviation. York council? Like all hon. Members, I understand that the country’s macro-economic position is weak. In the I will try to be brief because I know many Members last published quarterly figures, we learned that the want to speak. The City of York council and the economy had contracted by 0.5%. Economists are now Yorkshire regional flood defence committee are considering asking what the Chancellor’s plan B is should the country alternative sources of funding for the Leeman road and fall back into recession; in other words, two consecutive Water End scheme, including the possibility of funding quarters of contraction of the national economy. Of from the European Union, which is available to support course Labour has argued that the deficit must be businesses. I have talked earlier about the enormous brought under control, but the way in which the Chancellor impact that flooding can have on commerce. Is the is doing that is too fast and the cuts that he is implementing Minister prepared to work with the council and the are too deep. In the run-up to the Budget, the Chancellor Environment Agency to try to get support for such a will obviously be considering his options. He may not scheme? announce it in the Budget, but it is perfectly obvious to Consultation documents from the Minister’s Department all of us in this Chamber that the Treasury is considering reveal that the Government are seeking to transfer part a plan B. If the Chancellor were to respond to the of the cost of providing flood defences from central worsening economic situation by relaxing the pace of Government budgets to local communities. I am not public expenditure cuts, the most obvious place to making a particular point about that, but I hope that provide an expansion—or perhaps a lesser contraction—of the Minister will listen and focus on what I am saying. 109WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 110WH

He can describe it slightly differently if he wants. It Neil Carmichael: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? would be a mistake to have a flood tax added to local authority taxation because the boundaries of local Hugh Bayley: I said that I would give way to the hon. authorities do not match the boundaries of river catchment Gentleman. I will do so, then I will give way to the right areas. If we are planning to deal with flood waters, we hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) need to plan for the river catchment as a whole. and then I will sit down. When York floods, we provide a service for places upstream, because we take the water away from them Neil Carmichael: I just want to support what the hon. and prevent them from flooding. Equally, when Selby Gentleman has been saying about the need to think floods it does a service for the city of York, as it takes strategically. In my constituency of Stroud we have the our water away and saves us from flooding. That is Slad valley, which is a relatively small valley. However, if precisely what Selby is doing at the moment and hopefully we had a co-operative Environment Agency, a less rigorous it will not flood as a consequence. We are interdependent— interpretation of the water directive and a general willingness that is how nature works—and the funding response to allow local people to do what they think should be needs to take account of how nature works and be done we would solve a huge number of problems for based on river catchments rather than local authority Stroud, which has nearly 5,000 houses in total that are areas. vulnerable to flooding. My appeal is for more local One way in which we might do that is through giving flexibility, so that we can take action and implement responsibility, in part or in whole, to water and sewage flood alleviation measures. management companies, which of course have been set up to follow river catchment areas. We talk about the Hugh Bayley: I am glad to receive support from the “Severn Trent” region. Why is that a region? It is a hon. Gentleman. However, I hope that he will join me region because anyone extracting water needs to follow in saying that these risks, which people in both our the river courses. Equally, anyone dealing with flood constituencies face, are present and real risks now and water needs to follow the river courses. that we need Government funding now to address them. I say that because by the time that we work out a new It would be wholly unfair if people in York had to system in five years’ time, our constituencies might have pay for draining water away from upland areas on the flooded. east side of the Pennines—the 300,000 square kilometres of land that York drains—or if Leeds city centre had to In fairness to everyone else who wants to speak, I will pay for draining water away from people living upstream take an intervention from the right hon. Member for in the Wharfe valley. Yet it would be fair for people Berwick-upon-Tweed and then I will draw my remarks living in those valley catchments to work out collectively to a close. how to deal with the water as a whole. That is what the Environment Agency says they need to do. Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): I just want to make the point that upstream flooding, which the hon. Gentleman describes as a form of alleviation in Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman main urban centres, has a cost for the agricultural give way? communities in the areas concerned. Even as far away as Northumberland, we were aware that in east Yorkshire Hugh Bayley: I will give way in just a moment. there was considerable resistance to such schemes, I see excellent work that the Environment Agency has but they are an essential part of flood management. done upstream from York, creating small ponds on Nevertheless, it requires a lot of co-operation and discussion agricultural land, planting trees and building dams that with the farming community, to ensure that a proper can be closed at times when there is a lot of water, so balance of interests is recognised. that water can be stored. If we can slow the run-off, we can convert an 18-foot flood over 24 hours in York, Hugh Bayley: That is obviously right and it is a very which would be catastrophic, into a 15-foot flood over important contribution. We cannot get flood risk three days in York, which would be quite manageable. management for free, whether it involves building flood The Minister will have seen such schemes. They exist defences in York city centre or paying farmers to let because we cannot expect small communities—working their winter cropping fields flood at a time when they village by village, town by town, city by city—to protect would otherwise be planting root vegetables or some themselves without a scheme being worked out for the other crop. However, it might be both cheaper and more catchment area as a whole. environmentally sustainable to pay the farmers to grow I ask the Minister to consider an interesting proposal more trees, create ponds and use other measures to that has been put to me by Yorkshire Water that the retain some of the water long enough to protect downstream company could perhaps buy flood defence infrastructure areas from inundation. from the Environment Agency, which would give the I could say much more about the consultation documents, Government a capital receipt. Yorkshire Water would about what the insurers are telling me or about the be able to do so because it can go to equity markets, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee report, which a Government cannot do. Of course such a but I will sit down now so that other Members can have scheme would increase the cost of water, because the their say. company would have to repay the cost of managing floods more effectively. However, it would mean that 2.55 pm those increased charges were spread across the river catchment area as a whole—upstream and downstream Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): Thank communities—rather than on downstream communities you, Mr Sheridan. It is a pleasure to serve under your exclusively. chairmanship. I am somewhat nervous, because I have 111WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 112WH

[Dr Thérèse Coffey] There are ideas for future schemes. I am hesitant to speak about them, but one can see other opportunities known the gentleman sitting to the left of you—the whereby communities decide to have infrastructure Clerk, Mr Hennessy—for 30 years and I have never development. I say that I am hesitant to speak about spoken in front of him before. It is a new experience for them, because I do not want my constituents to write in me. and say, “Thérèse Coffey demands turbine be placed in I congratulate the hon. Member for York Central Felixstowe”; nor do I want my local paper to get the (Hugh Bayley) on securing the debate. As Members wrong end of the stick. However, there is an opportunity may know, I will bore for Britain on the topic of coastal for communities around the country to come up with defences and, of course, river defences too. I mentioned imaginative ideas for possible schemes. the issue of flood defences in my maiden speech and in For example, if we had a wind turbine in Felixstowe, recent debates on shoreline management plans, and I that would work in a high wind when the port itself, will continue to do so because it is absolutely the No. 1 down the road, is closed, because the cranes there defining issue in my constituency of Suffolk Coastal. cannot operate in high winds. That would contribute to the local economy, and the income could be ring-fenced I pay tribute to the Minister who is here today. He is and put into future sustainable defences, not only for actually very popular in our constituency, not only Felixstowe itself but for areas, such as Felixstowe Ferry, because he yet again confirmed the situation regarding at the mouth of the River Deben, that face particular Felixstowe’s flood defences in the main Chamber earlier difficulties at the moment. The Environment Agency is today but because he visited my constituency. When he being very kind at the moment, but I recognise that that did so, people liked the fact that he listened, reflected on kindness cannot go on for ever with our future policy. the facts and actually did something about them. We have seen that in some of the thinking expressed in the I am also interested to learn from the Minister how consultation paper and also in his encouragement of the pathfinder evaluations might fit into the consultation officials at the Environment Agency and Natural England on the future of funding for flood defences and whether to do the right thing by working with local people and any element of that evaluation process will be incorporated landowners, to get more for less out of the budget. in the consultation. Sadly, due to the economic legacy that we inherited, In Happisburgh, people are very excited because they that budget is slightly reduced from what we would of have been offered some compensation for their houses course like it to be. that are about to fall into the sea. I mentioned that in In fact, I will go further and say that the Minister has the shoreline management plans debate, but unfortunately been so successful that the risk is that he will get the Minister was in Brussels at the time, trying to do his promoted, but we desperately do not want that to best for us on fish. Although flooding is terribly disruptive happen because we need him to sort out the fish problem to home owners in places such as York, the water too. Having said that, I will move on to other issues. normally goes away, and repairs are needed, but the risk with erosion is that it is terminal. Once someone’s house I generally welcome the change in thinking on flood has gone into the sea, it has gone; not only that, the defences. For me, there is an incentive, as that change in owner is liable for its safe disposal. With a ’60s or ’70s thinking will help people and communities who help house with lots of asbestos in it, the owner might be themselves. It is that partnership model that I recognise, able to apply for a grant of up to £5,000, but that might but it is a model that still provides protection, within the not cover the costs. The Pitt review constantly referred funding formula, so that where there are wards of to in the consultation is based on fluvial flooding rather deprivation the formula acknowledges that deprivation than on coastal erosion, which has been an add-on. and will work towards alleviating it. One thing that is mentioned in the document is that That gives a fresh element of hope to my constituents with homes built since 2009 it is the developers who are who, under the shoreline management plans, were told, supposed to take on the flood risk. That is a reasonable “You’re on your own”. Actually, this new model is a suggestion, and I hope that anyone who has bought a way forward. The Minister has already seen some of the house in a flood-risk area since 2009 realises that. With schemes in my area that I want to commend to the good design, housing can be a lot more resilient to House. For example, at Bawdsey there was a situation flooding. whereby the economic benefits under the calculations Under OM1 in the consultation, I am slightly did not derive any financing in particular. What happened disappointed to note that the agricultural land value was that some local farmers came together and offered estimate has not been updated or upgraded since the up land for development. The local council agreed to 2007 comprehensive spending review, despite in the grant planning permission for houses to be built on that other part of the Department for Environment, Food land. Together the council and the farmers put the and Rural Affairs there being thoughts on food security money from that development into a trust, which has and about ensuring that we have that element. It would now paid for coastal defences to protect the area around have been nice to see a slightly more generous value Bawdsey for some time to come. attributed to agricultural land. More recently, in Thorpeness local home owners Under OM5 to OM7, a lot of money is set aside per came together—I must admit that not all of them did acre and per hectare for the recreation or preservation so; one or two decided not to put their hands in their of habitats, to comply with the European habitats and pockets. However, the rest came together and said, “We water directives, and that, I am afraid, reinforces the want to protect our shoreline along here”, and the view held by some that nature is more important than Environment Agency, working with Suffolk Coastal people. OM3 gives the figure of £3,050 rental income district council, came up with a scheme that will make a per year for properties at risk of coastal erosion. In my difference to people’s lives. constituency, trying to rent a coastal property for £3,050 a 113WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 114WH year simply would not happen—a beach hut, perhaps, over the years, passing it on from generation to generation. would be about it. The figure is probably more generous Let us not kill off the chances of this generation for the than it has been previously, but I urge the Department sake of 100-year hindsight. to think again on that. I have to hold my hand up: I have not yet gone 3.6 pm through the document with a fine-toothed comb, but will be working on that to ensure that I get my consultation Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): I am very response in by 16 February. However, the document grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for York Central contains some very encouraging phrases that reinforce (Hugh Bayley) for initiating the debate this afternoon. the principle of partnership and give an opportunity to After the then Secretary of State for Environment, constituents who are being told that there is no public Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the funding available for them. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), had made a I shall finish on two issues, one of which is the cost of statement to the House on flooding on 17 December delivery. There is an element of red tape in councils, 2008, I asked him a question about his proposed trial with planning permission, and there are the aspects of areas for surface water management in Leeds. My question the costliness of permits and studies for Natural England, was about an area in the Roundhay ward of my and the consents from the Environment Agency. I know constituency called the Wellhouses—a series of residential that the Minister has already taken action, and is committed streets through the middle of which runs Gledhow to removing as many blocks as possible to make it as beck. I had been approached by local residents who easy and cheap as possible for land owners to protect were concerned that they had the responsibility for their defences—all force to his elbow. The Environment maintaining the banks of the beck, which frequently Agency told me a couple of weeks ago that it would not overflows during heavy rain, exacerbated by the excessive prevent land owners in “no active intervention” areas outflows of water from the balancing lake in Roundhay under the shoreline management plans from defending park. As always, my right hon. Friend was courteous their property. That came as a bit of a surprise yesterday and helpful in his reply, and promised to let me know to some of the people at the all-party coastal and whether Gledhow beck would come under his plans to marine parliamentary group, and it was thrown up— transfer surface water management to local authorities perhaps anecdotally; I do not have enough evidence—that such as Leeds—one of his trial areas—in 2011. The the Environment Agency might say that but Natural subsequent answer was that it would. England will stop us anyway. Surface water management might appear to many to be a rather dry and uninteresting issue until their homes Sir Alan Beith: There is a tendency for one agency to are flooded by exceptional rainfall or overflowing balancing say that the other agency will not allow it to do something, lakes. I took up the issue affecting the residents of the but in my experience getting them all together in the Wellhouses because I was shown first hand the appalling same room—ideally on site—means that some of that damage that could be done in an instant to the homes of starts to fall away. Fruitful co-operation between agencies people I am privileged to represent. Most people never is the way forward, instead of blaming someone else for give a moment’s thought to the merest possibility of not doing something. their homes being flooded, until it happens. It is true that many parts of the hilly city of Leeds Dr Coffey: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I will never be in danger of flooding. Where I am fortunate am relaying some of the anecdotes about the frustrations to live—in Pudsey to the west of the city, between Leeds of landowners, but I agree that getting people in the and Bradford—we are more than 650 feet above sea same room to talk things through leads to constructive level and can be complacent. However, much of Leeds solutions, once the initial hurdles have been surmounted. is built around the River Aire, and is therefore susceptible to flooding. On 15 June 2007, Leeds city centre came On the funding process, one of my local Suffolk very close indeed to being overwhelmed by water, after Coastal councillors, Andy Smith, who is a lead council days of appalling weather when a whole month’s rainfall member on coastal matters, has raised with me the fell in 24 hours—Leeds was not unique in that, that annual allocation of funding process. Some schemes summer. Many city centre roads were under water, and take more than a year, and things are unclear or uncertain. the city almost came to a juddering, squelchy halt. On There could be a project that was agreed a couple of 27 June 2007, the Yorkshire Evening Post reported that years previously but which constantly comes up for more than 6 cm of rain had fallen during the previous review regarding the annual allocation of cash. There is nine hours, something not quite right with that process, and I hope that we can get it right. “causing millions of pounds worth of damage to flooded homes, schools and businesses. Dozens of trains were cancelled and Finally, I am encouraging internal drainage boards to roads were gridlocked as the city tried to cope with the torrential participate in the consultation because they could be downpour, the heaviest on a single day for 50 years.” effective delivery partners for a lot of the work that we Suzanne McTaggart’s report added: want to do. IDBs are not the only solution, but they are “The latest stormy weather comes after heavy rain hit Leeds a good one. They combine local landowners and councillors, just over a week ago, when rivers threatened to burst their banks and have an element of democratic authority. The future and roads became waterways. Many areas saw six weeks worth of is quite bright, and could be very bright for coastal and rain in just 24 hours yesterday…making this the wettest June river defences, but I urge the Minister to ensure that the ever—and possibly the wettest month since Met Office records policies of the previous Government, of making 100-year began in 1882.” decisions on the basis of three years’ funding, are a On its excellent website, the Environment Agency thing of the past. There are many generations of families says of its proposed Leeds River Aire flood alleviation in Suffolk who have done their bit for their bit of land scheme: 115WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 116WH

[Fabian Hamilton] Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): I assume that the hon. Gentleman’s city, like my constituency, “Leeds has suffered from localised flooding in recent years suffered bad floods in 2007. If it did, he should surely which caused significant disruption to local residents, businesses attach some of the blame for the lack of action on and commuters. However, these floods were relatively small and building flood defences to the Labour Government, there is always the risk of a much larger flood.” rather than blaming this Government, who have had The Environment Agency’s latest briefing on the Leeds only six months to do anything about this. scheme tells us that the agency is now working closely with Leeds city council to come up with an affordable Fabian Hamilton: I strongly disagree with the hon. scheme. It estimates that the current comprehensive Gentleman. scheme would cost about £190 million and would involve building raised defences on the River Aire, thus Hugh Bayley: I have fought hard for 10 years for directly protecting 255 residential and 495 commercial flood defences to be improved in York and I would properties and indirectly helping to avoid the flooding accept— of 3,800 residential and commercial properties. The briefing suggests that if the city of Leeds were inundated by floodwater, the damage would total at least £480 million Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: Why did the Labour —several times the cost of the flood defences. DEFRA Government not do anything about it? has asked the Environment Agency to continue working with Leeds city council to secure alternative sources Hugh Bayley: Will the hon. Gentleman listen for a of funding or to find ways to reduce the costs of the minute? I accept that the Labour Government, who put project, but initial indications from DEFRA, which I in millions of pounds and improved many flood defences, understand have now been confirmed, show that sufficient protecting some areas of the city, did not finish the job. funding will not be available in 2011-12 to proceed to However, I should tell the hon. Gentleman, who I hope detailed design. will have the opportunity to speak, that while Labour was in power, we increased Government funding to the I intend no disrespect to my good friends who represent Environment Agency for flood risk management from the great Yorkshire cities of Hull, Bradford and Sheffield, £249 million in 2000 to more than £500 million in or, of course, to the wonderful people who live in those 2008-09—in other words, we more than doubled it. We cities, when I say that Leeds is without doubt the engine provided funding for more flood management and of the whole Yorkshire regional economy. Like every protection schemes than was the case before. Our concern other city in the UK, with the possible exception of is that this Government are reducing funding. London, Leeds has been badly hit by the economic downturn, but it still draws in tens of thousands of commuters every day, who come to work in the many Jim Sheridan (in the Chair): Order. Interventions are businesses, legal practices and financial institutions that getting a bit long. operate from Leeds city centre. Leeds is still the largest financial centre in England outside London—hon. Fabian Hamilton: I thank my hon. Friend for that Members can forget about Manchester. Imagine what timely intervention. I was going to respond simply by would happen if the “relatively small” floods in 2007 saying that we cannot design flood defences in two or became a much larger flood, as the Environment Agency three years; it takes a long time to make sure that we fears they might, swamping the centre of Leeds, its have the protection that is appropriate to the environment wealth-generating businesses and its newly built apartments and needs of a particular area to ensure that the system and homes. will work. A great deal of research has to go into these Spending a relatively small amount now could, however, issues, from not only the Environment Agency, but help to prevent catastrophe in the future. With climate every other agency involved. That is why these things change making rainfall in these islands ever more were not done instantly after the 2007 floods. unpredictable, the River Aire will burst its banks sooner Let me return to the points I was trying to make or later and drown our city. Not only will thousands of about the little piece of land between the ring road and homes be affected, but millions, if not billions, of pounds Valley terrace. Some may accuse my constituents there of business activity will be halted, and thousands of of being no more than nimbys—that stands for “not in hard-working citizens will have their jobs or their lives my back yard”—who do not want any further development ruined—all for the want of the flood defences that now that they have their homes in such a lovely area. could have been built, but which the Government cut However, I supported their bid to stop the planning because the deficit simply had to be repaid in four years, application, which would have destroyed that small area rather than five, six or even seven. [Interruption.] Sorry, of woodland, because the woodland soaks up rainwater does the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham coming down from the hills into the valley where the (Daniel Kawczynski) want to intervene? ring road is situated. I am increasingly concerned—I would be interested in the Minister’s response—that Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): planning authorities are allowing more homes to be I am not allowed. built on woodland with no regard to the excessive surface water drainage problems that might occur as a Fabian Hamilton: In the summer of 2009, I was result. I am delighted to say that planning permission approached by the residents of Valley terrace, which is was refused on this occasion—whether that was to do in an area of housing just off the Leeds outer ring road, with my intervention, I simply cannot say. in the Roundhay ward. They were upset that woodland That brings me back to the Wellhouses. June 2008 between their homes and the noisy, busy dual-carriageway saw the publication of a not very entertaining, but very ring road was to be destroyed and built on by developers. important DEFRA report, entitled “The West Garforth 117WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 118WH

Integrated Urban Drainage Pilot Study”—hon. Members I simply make the point to the Minister that the major should try saying that when they have had a few drinks. economic centre and engine for growth for millions of Among its many conclusions was: people in west Yorkshire is the Leeds centre, and it has “The report shows that, as soon as serious resources are made come disastrously near being put out of operation in a available for investigating flooding problems and inspecting the major way. The train station is built over the rivers. The condition of culverted watercourses, then opportunities for relatively 2000 flood threatened electricity supply in the city centre, modest actions become apparent that can have a significant which, in turn, threatened the major Leeds general beneficial impact.” infirmary. This is a question of a major catastrophe. The I am grateful to the Environment Agency, the leader Minister will not think I am doing him any favours, but I of Leeds city council—Councillor Keith Wakefield—the do not want him to be on world or national television in Leeds, York and North Yorkshire chamber of commerce his wellies standing looking at a flooded national city—the and my friend and constituent, Chris Say, for all their largest in the north. I do not want that to happen, for the help in getting me the information, facts and figures on sake of the city and its people and the surrounding which I have based my contribution. This is an important towns and cities. That is how close we are, if the matter issue for every resident of Leeds and has an impact on a is judged on number of households and cost. much wider population. I therefore hope the Government We are where we are. It is accepted that any Government are listening and will make our flood defences a priority would have to pull back the deficit, whatever the time at a time when money is in short supply—the futures of scale. These are difficult times and priorities must be so many, and the economy of a whole region, depend set. I understand the situation. I even offer something on it. additional—without being patronising. I shall say this so that the Minister can use it against me—and the 3.17 pm city—but I think that the scheme was designed in slightly better times. I question the £190 million scheme, Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): It would be especially given the number of schemes lining up throughout unfair of those of us from Leeds to take up all the time, the city. In the Chamber, the Minister offered a meeting. because flooding is such an important matter, which I should welcome one, but its outcome would be to affects people directly and in such a traumatic way, and make it clear to the Environment Agency and the city, other hon. Members must have their opportunity. I will within agreed parameters, if possible, what type of therefore be very quick. scheme and expenditure are realistic in this day and age. I had the opportunity to raise a question about this We would say “Go away and if you can get something issue with the Minister on the Floor of the House within those parameters we will look at the design earlier this afternoon. I should say that I am not making work.” We are not speaking about this year or next year. a political point. I will certainly not get involved in any The design work would be started on a more modest, political nonsense about which Government spent more. but realistic, scheme. That would help. We are where we are, and we can settle political differences There is an additional way in which it would help. and arguments elsewhere. We are talking about flooding, The Minister will appreciate the problems. Quite rightly which, as we all know, affects people in a very personal the previous and present Governments have told the way. I say that in my defence. What I would also say, city to get private involvement. Businesses and houses however, in what I hope will be a brief speech is that one are being saved, and there is development, so they have difficulty with flooding assistance is that it seems to told it to put some funding in and it has found, it thinks, relate, on a cost-benefit basis, to the number of households. £20 million. That is a lot of money but when it is That is where the Minister and I were at cross purposes compared with a £190 million scheme one might say, “I earlier this afternoon. think you’ll have to do better,” and that causes problems. To illustrate what my hon. Friend the Member for What if we were all to meet in a room and say, “Let’s get Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) was saying, let me real with one another; let’s get this scheme down”? The use the words of the flood risk manager in Leeds, who city centre must be protected and we cannot have a puts the case better than I could: national economic asset knocked out—but the work “the Government should treat this scheme as a special case”— should not be at any price. We should get a realistic price and a realistic public contribution, and all agree to which is fine; we would expect him to say that. He do the work as quickly as possible. continued by saying that As I am chairing a Committee upstairs at a quarter “a major flood to Leeds could set the economic recovery of the to 4, I shall have to leave the debate, and I give my north back many years and the cost of that would far exceed the cost of the works.” apologies now—I am not leaving out of disrespect. However, I should hope that the Minister would see my My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East remarks as helpful. They are heartfelt on behalf of the mentioned the £500 million of damage that could be city of Leeds, and west Yorkshire. done. I do not know whether the Minister has been to Leeds, but the river runs through the business and retail 3.24 pm centre—the river and the canal run below the main Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): I, too, congratulate my train station—and it is a compact city centre, which hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) flooding would damage tremendously. on securing a timely debate on the same day as today’s The Environment Agency brief—when I mentioned announcement. it previously, the Secretary of State was talking to the In my own patch in Wansbeck, following the most Minister and seemed to disagree—stated: intense rainfall in living memory on 5 and 6 September “The city centre escaped inundation by a matter of centimetres 2008, a month’s rain fell in 24 hours, which meant that in 2000, and there were further near misses in 2004, 2007 and the river Wansbeck burst its banks and the whole town 2008.” of Morpeth was flooded. That was compounded by 119WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 120WH

[Ian Lavery] In addition to the trauma and devastating personal and physical effects of the floods, local residents and other flooding problems including flooding from the visitors must now come to terms with problems obtaining Cotting burn, the Church burn and the Postern burn in buildings and contents insurance, which has been Morpeth. There was extensive flooding throughout the mentioned. It is a huge problem for people living on town centre and nearly 1,000 properties, including many floodplains. The current agreement with insurance businesses on the main street, were directly affected, companies will continue until 2013, and who knows causing huge problems. Hundreds of residents had to what will happen after that? It must be considered as a be evacuated and emergency shelter was provided in matter of extreme urgency.Many people living in Morpeth the King Edward VI high school, at county hall and in face huge rises in premiums and excesses. One gentleman the town hall in Morpeth. Iconic buildings such as the living in the Morpeth floodplain was asked, after going chantry and St George’s church suffered considerable to court, to pay £300 a month in insurance, and the damage, as did landmark shops. The emergency ambulance excess was £20,000. That is not insurance. It is a massive station, the doctors’ surgery, the health centre at Gas problem. Individuals, families and businesses who have House lane, the Riverside leisure centre and the town’s experienced the horror and trauma of flooding have main library were also inundated and had to close for a had their lives turned upside down, and they should not considerable period. have to face additional problems that cause them further Firefighters, ambulance crews, the RAF, the Royal distress and upset as well as imposing a huge financial National Lifeboat Institution and the British Red Cross burden on them. Those issues must be tackled as a were among the emergency services involved in the matter of urgency. rescue and recovery operations over the whole weekend. I have not got much more to say, but I pay tribute to A collection of voluntary groups and the town’s churches the men and women of the emergency services who, on came together to help hundreds of flood victims and all occasions up and down the country, have been the campaign was spearheaded by the Morpeth Lions absolutely fantastic when such things occur. They put club. Families were out of their homes for more than a their lives at risk to ensure that everyone else is safe. year and businesses were closed for months, and still To move on slightly from local issues, recommendation people from within the flood plain are not back in their 39 of the Pitt review, which both the Conservatives and properties. Liberal Democrats supported before the election, stated: Prior to the devastating flood, there was a huge flood “The Government should urgently put in place a fully funded in Morpeth in 1963, which was before I was born—people national capability for flood rescue, with Fire and Rescue Authorities might question that. In an attempt to protect the community playing a leading role, underpinned as necessary by a statutory from further devastation in the future, I am working duty”. closely with the Morpeth flood action group, officers of The coalition agreement committed to Northumberland county council and the Environment “take forward the findings of the Pitt Review to improve our Agency to try to progress the proposals for the Morpeth flood defences, and prevent unnecessary building in areas of high flood alleviation scheme. The proposed scheme for Morpeth flood risk.” is designed to reduce the risk of flooding from the river Both the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives Wansbeck and the main burns in the town. It involves supported a statutory duty, and it is in the coalition the storage of water upstream of Morpeth on the agreement. Mitford estate, the building of new defences in the town where none currently exist, and the replacement and refurbishment of some existing defences. Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman pay tribute to the flood wardens of It is imperative that the flood alleviation scheme south Derbyshire, who have taken duties on themselves should be delivered to protect communities and businesses as part of the big society? While waiting for other things in the town of Morpeth. Local people need the reassurance to get better, we are looking after ourselves. We get out that their homes are safe from the ravages of the extreme there on horses and take out flood signs. We know that weather conditions and they deserve the peace of mind those in the community are looking after themselves. that those assurances will bring. Shops and businesses We have professionals to look after us, but it is important need to be assured that they will not suffer a reoccurrence for our villages and communities to do their best for of the devastation of 6 September 2008 and that they themselves too. can have a secure future in Morpeth where they can build their businesses for the benefit of their employees, local communities and the local economy. Ian Lavery: Of course I pay tribute to those people. I am not sure whether flood defences and removing water Sir Alan Beith: The hon. Gentleman presents his case from our towns, villages and city centres should be left eloquently. Many of the businesses he mentions are to the whim of some big society, as I am not too sure either owned by my constituents or employ them. A what that actually means, but I certainly pay tribute to large area of my constituency will face the upstream anybody who volunteers to secure their community flooding that is part of the alleviation scheme, but I against flooding problems. I am not sure whether people think we all want to work together to ensure that in my area would have access to horses. Maybe the hon. Morpeth and Rothbury do not have to go through such Lady can tell me after this debate exactly how it happened. an experience again. It is interesting. Ian Lavery: I agree with that and understand the right Now that the Minister is in office, does he still agree hon. Gentleman’s remarks, bearing in mind that his with recommendation 39 on a statutory duty involving constituency is next to mine. I understand the associated the emergency services? If so, as it is in the coalition problems, particularly upstream, as compared to those agreement, might that take place in the not-too-distant in the town centre of Morpeth. future? 121WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 122WH

The decision today not to make funding for the 3.38 pm Morpeth flood alleviation scheme readily available in Tony Cunningham (Workington) (Lab): I will be brief, the next 12 months is disappointing to me, the people as I know that I have only a couple of minutes. concerned who are heavily involved in the community, the local council and many others. As the Member of The emphasis in this debate has been, rightly, on Parliament for Wansbeck, I will be working tirelessly flood defence. I ask the Minister to ensure that the with those organisations and interested parties to ensure Environment Agency budget has sufficient funds to that the scheme is progressed in its entirety. It is important deal with two other issues. One is maintenance. One not to consider flood alleviation schemes on a piecemeal contributory factor to the floods in west Cumbria in basis, because that is not effective economically or in November 2009 was the lack of dredging and maintenance terms of flood prevention. I ask the Minister for the of becks, streams and rivers. We must ensure that there third time this week—I hope that he will bear with me; I is sufficient funding for that. have had two assurances from him already, and I am The other issue is flood resilience measures. It is all sure he does not mind giving me a third one—to assure right having flood defences and doing maintenance, but me that everything will be done to ensure that the individual houses and businesses need protection, and Morpeth flood alleviation scheme will be completed in we must ensure that funds for flood resilience measures the near future without delay, as quickly as possible and are sufficient. in its entirety. Jim Sheridan (in the Chair): It is my intention to call 3.39 pm the Front-Bench spokesmen no later than 3.40. There Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): I thank my hon. are two Members wishing to speak, so they should be Friend the Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) for brief. securing this debate. He has demonstrated yet again his considerable knowledge of the issues, and I think that 3.35 pm Members of all parties are grateful to him for securing Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): I am this debate so that we can air them. I commend the grateful to have caught your eye, Mr Sheridan. I will Environment Agency workers who have been working speak for two minutes only, in the hope that the hon. around the clock, as they always do, in the north-west Member for Workington (Tony Cunningham) will also of England over the past few weeks, where rainfall has be able to speak. I do not want political differences been high, heightening flood risks considerably. about who did what. Other than a fire, nothing worse Communities at risk of flooding require certainty can happen to a home than to be flooded with a mixture from Government, and that is what I think has been at of water and sewage, as I saw when walking around the the core of everyone’s argument today. As I have said, streets of Fairford after the 2007 floods. we seek to work with the Government where we can and I will make one or two brief remarks. In the 2007 when we agree that they are doing the right thing. Issues floods, 250 buildings in the Cotswolds were flooded, such as flooding and flood defences should be above the including a school on which £1 million had to be spent, typical, tribal knockabout of this House and of British doctors’ surgeries and so on. I am a little concerned politics in general, but we will hold the Government to about a letter that I received from the Environment account when we believe that they are not doing the Agency. I pay tribute to its author, Barry Russell. In my right thing or acting in the public interest, and when we 18 years as a Member of Parliament, I do not think that believe that their actions are likely to hurt those most in I have found such a helpful civil servant anywhere else need. in the country. He has been to public meeting after We are all agreed that flooding is a life-changing public meeting with me to explain what the Environment issue. It is also a complex one and its policy solutions, Agency can and cannot do. I do not blame him at all for or the solutions that we as politicians can provide what I am about to quote from his letter, but I would towards the problem, are not simple. Sadly, flood defence like the Minister’s observation on it. in this country, as well as the Department for Environment, Barry Russell says: Food and Rural Affairs the bodies that rely upon it, and “In previous years, the local authority projects received funding the people whom those organisations serve, are now from a ring-fenced pot of money. This is not the case for next year beginning to pay the price for what many people and (2011-12), and all projects are competing on a like for like independent commentators believe is the Secretary of basis—both local authority projects as well as our own. Ultimately State’s fevered desire to be the first Secretary of State in the allocations were based on the OM score, and funding was the new Government to give the Chancellor what he allocated to projects with a higher score than those submitted by the Cotswold District Council. I share your disappointment in wants—big, indiscriminate cuts, with little regard for not receiving the funding that you were anticipating for this how they could be accommodated, or for the effect that scheme.” they will have on the Department’s core areas of work. It is easy to come up with statistics to show, in order We cannot escape that fact. of priority, which projects will give the best value for In many ways, the debacle over forestry privatisation money and save the most houses. The problem in a has illustrated what we already knew about the highly rural constituency such as the Cotswolds, which Government—they are riven with contradictions and has 110 villages, lots of which have flooding problems, lack a clear focus on issues of real concern to people in is that it will never meet those criteria. Most of my too many areas throughout the country. There is no constituency—with the exception of Cirencester, which argument about the fact that there will be a 27% cut in flooded in 2000, 2007 and 2008—will never get any flood defence spending this year—it has been confirmed funding under the system. I accept that my hon. Friend by the Environment Agency. I have the greatest respect the Minister has a limited pot of funding, but I ask him for the Minister—we have a good working relationship to look at the system of allocation. on the whole—but he has himself confirmed to the 123WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 124WH

[Mr Jamie Reed] underpins household insurance provision. So far, we have heard nothing that will reassure home owners or Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee that business property owners that the Government are working cuts are taking place. The Prime Minister, however, is in an effective way with the insurance industry to resolve apparently unaware of that, or simply disinterested in the real threat of some homes and businesses becoming the detail of the policies that his Government are uninsurable and unmortgageable following the expiry prosecuting. of the statement of principles. The Prime Minister has told the House that it is Some insurance experts have warned that when the “simply not the case” that there will be a reduction in statement of principles comes to an end, it will be spending on flood defences, and that the comprehensive devastating for consumers. Others have warned that it spending review settlement is “roughly the same” as in will be bad for consumers but a great opportunity for previous years but, in fact, it is not. Cutting is not the brokers. Does the Minister agree with that? Simon way to deliver the savings that the country needs; it is, in Douglas of the AA’s insurance division told the Secretary fact, a false economy. I trust that the Minister will of State in a letter: encourage the Prime Minister to correct the record. “Millions of people are at risk of inundation from overflowing As I have said, communities that are at risk of rivers, coasts and estuaries during extremes of weather and that flooding—we are talking about 5.2 million homes, as risk is increasing all the time. If spending isn’t maintained, it will well as business properties—require certainty from compromise the statement of principles, which could see many Government, not a changing of the goal posts or an homes become uninsurable.” abandonment or reneging on agreements. The communities David Williams of AXA went even further by saying: of York, Thirsk, Morpeth and elsewhere feel that sense “We are committed to the Statement of Principles, subject to of abandonment right now as their flood defence schemes spending. Now that spending has been reduced, you could say all fall by the wayside. It is a fact that the Government have bets are off. The Government is in breach of its side of the announced a 27% cut in capital investment for flood bargain, so if insurers wanted to stop providing cover, they would defence spending for 2011-12, which means that many probably be able to. The problem is nobody wants to be the first communities will face genuine uncertainty about their and end up getting harangued in the press.” futures as projects are delayed or shelved. The cuts will I think that all Members on both sides of the House leave many homes and businesses at a heightened risk of would agree that the expiration of the statement of flooding. principles is a ticking time bomb, not just for individuals, The Minister said in the main Chamber today that home owners or business people, but for whole communities. those are deferrals, not cancellations, but they will feel It is hugely economically and socially significant. like cancellations. The statement of principles is likely What assessment have the Government undertaken to expire before any investments are made, so those on the impact of their budget cuts on the universal areas that are today missing out on flood defence coverage of insurance provision for homes at risk of investments face the prospect of being thrown at the flooding? Will the Minister publish that assessment? mercy of a bear market when trying to find future The ongoing negotiations between the insurance industry insurance. Will the Minister confirm that he will not and Government are of profound importance, so will allow the insurance premiums or excess payments of he tell us, categorically, whether he is committed to the anyone in any area to go through the roof as a result of principle of universal insurance cover? If so, will he be his Government’s cancellations or delays? Does he agree transparent about his negotiations with the insurance that those areas that had expected investments, and that industry and publish an update on them in the House of were told that investments would be forthcoming before Commons Library? Finally on this issue, does he agree the expiry of the statement of principles in 2013 have that the expiry of the statement of principles, without now been prejudiced? If that is not the case, how is it any meaningful system to replace it, will be a disaster not the case? How much public money has been spent for consumers, and will he seek a system of universal designing, characterising and consulting upon the schemes insurance cover for whatever follows the current one that will not now go ahead? beyond 2013? We know that York is the tip of the iceberg, that There are other critical questions for the Minister to many more cancellations are in the pipeline, and that answer. In 2010-11, the previous Labour Government the Government’s spending cuts will determine which allocated £35 million for Pitt and for adaptation budgets. schemes go ahead and which do not. Today is the day That was outlined in the CSR for 2007-08 to 2010-11. that the Government can finally choose to be honest Recently, the Minister announced that £21 million will with those home owners, communities and business be provided in 2011-12 to lead local flood authorities. owners who live in areas at risk of flooding, and tell all Will he confirm that that is different money from that of us which schemes will be cancelled and which will go announced by the previous Government? Is it new ahead, and not just for the next financial year—there is money? no security in that at all. I urge the Minister and all his The Minister will be aware that local authorities were colleagues in DEFRA not to hide behind the Environment awarded £100 million for flood funding in 2010-11 Agency—today’s announcement was by DEFRA, not through the Communities and Local Government formula the Environment Agency. grant. What contact has he had with his counterpart in Even after today’s announcement, there are many CLG about the level of funding available to local authorities unanswered questions, an awful lot of drift and there next year for flooding and related investment? The remains a significant lack of transparency. One of the concern throughout the House is that local authorities principal concerns is the expiry of the statement of have been given new responsibilities but no new money, principles in 2013. The statement is the agreement between and that local flood defence schemes in many areas face Government and the insurance industry that currently a double cut. 125WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 126WH

Local authorities are, of course, key to our national 3.51 pm efforts to improve flood resilience. The 2009 DEFRA annual report states: The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): “Over the next 2 years we aim to offer an improved standard of The hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), who is protection against flooding or coastal erosion risk for 145,000 excellent in so many ways, has a habit of asking me a more homes”. plethora of questions and not leaving me enough time According to a written answer form the Minister on to even begin to answer them, but I will see what I 27 July 2010, we are actually due to exceed that figure can do. and reach “at least 160,000 households”, which is a As announced in the Chamber earlier today, the glowing endorsement of the investment that we made, Government have announced £521 million to be invested and I welcome his recognition of it. The Secretary of in flood and coastal defences over the next year. Some State said of the next CSR period: 112,000 homes in England will benefit once the work has “We intend that, by March 2015, 145,000 households will be been completed. That money will help to fund 109 schemes better protected”—[Official Report, 19 November 2010; Vol. 518, that are already under construction, and work will c. 57WS.] begin on 39 new flood and coastal defence projects. Of Will the Minister therefore confirm that the Government those projects, 18 will provide vital repairs and safety plan to do less over four years than we achieved in just enhancements to existing defences, and the remaining two—yes or no? 21 will provide additional protection to 13,000 households The Minister said in today’s announcement that 112,000 at risk of flooding. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman homes would be protected. Will he confirm that that will be pleased that some of that investment is taking 112,000 is part of the 145,000 target previously mentioned? place in his constituency. If so, what will become of the schemes for the remaining I pay great tribute to the hon. Member for York 33,000? The Minister also mentioned the role of specialist Central (Hugh Bayley) for securing the debate and for providers in relation to the provision of insurance cover. his undoubted passion in standing up for his constituents I think that many would say that that hinted towards an on this important issue. One question he asked me is end to universal coverage, but I hope that he will refute why his region is apparently missing out so much on the that. What does he expect specialist providers to do, allocation of schemes this year. Yorkshire has received a and how will they keep their excess and insurance smaller settlement in 2011-12 than in previous years—before premium costs comparable with today’s rates? he includes that quote in a press release, I ask him to My hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian listen on—but that is because a large number of flood Lavery) talked about the cancellation of the Morpeth defence projects have recently been completed in the scheme, which has been halted because budget cuts have region. Hundreds of households in Yorkshire are already changed the outcome measures via which the EA has to enjoying better protection against floods and coastal assess projects. Will the Minister admit that that is the erosion as a result of projects that have been completed—I reason for the scheme’s delay and give the people of concede—over a number of years. that town the clarity they deserve? That is an important point because we have to take a This is an essential point. The Minister talked briefly long-term view of the spending on flood defences. Very about value for money. Of course, anyone in his position few schemes—almost none at all—go from conception is tasked with spending public money properly and I to commissioning in one year. Some of them, particularly support him in doing that, but what is his definition of the one we have been talking about in Leeds, are very large value for money in relation to public spending to protect schemes and run over a number of years. For example, a homes? Will he acknowledge that there is a real fear that £2 million scheme in north Doncaster was completed in his Department’s budget cuts and his changing definitions 2009, which reduces flood risk to 3,000 properties. A of value for money mean that particularly sparsely £10 million refurbishment of the Hull tidal surge populated areas at heightened flood risk, such as the barrier was completed in 2010, and reduces flood risk one I represent and those that many hon. Members here to 17,000 properties. There are many more schemes. represent, are on their own and that the Government May I address the specific points that the hon. Gentleman have abandoned them? Will he give a guarantee that his and others have raised in this important debate? He budgets cuts will not prejudice flood defence schemes in asked what I would do to get the Leeman Road scheme the more rural, disparate towns and villages that are back on track. I assure him that the Environment outside the larger urban conurbations? Such a move Agency and I will work with him at every stage to make would be a scandal and I condemn it. sure that we can get some movement on that scheme, Finally, will the Minister lay a copy of the full but I cannot guarantee where it will sit in any future Environment Agency funding allocation in the Library, year because of the variety of other schemes that will so that hon. Members from all parties can examine the come forward. I can assure him that, if our payment for detail and inform their constituents about the current outcomes scheme becomes the modus operandi of taking state of affairs? I am proud of my Government’s record forward such initiatives in future years, there will be in office in relation to flood defence spending: £2.36 billion much more clarity for constituents about where they over the past four years, 160,000 homes protected and stand on the issue. the introduction of the Flood and Water Management The hon. Gentleman raised a rather more macro Act 2010. I am grateful to the hon. Member for York issue about the current economic climate, and how this Central for introducing the debate. We need to debate issue sits within it. He is right: the deficit issue is a these issues urgently in Government time on the Floor current account matter. Our national debt is about of the House. I hope that the Minister will be able to everything; it is not just current or capital account. give us that assurance today. There are siren voices that say that we must invest more 127WH Flood Risk Management9 FEBRUARY 2011 Flood Risk Management 128WH

[Richard Benyon] are, I hope, being ironed out. That was an extremely useful session. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we in infrastructure. We are investing in a variety of need to take a longer-term view, and internal drainage infrastructure—not just flooding schemes, but a variety boards are absolutely crucial to many of these schemes. of different ones. It is a question of having a balanced There was an intervention from my hon. Friend the approach. Member for Stroud— The hon. Gentleman talked about whether we can assist his flood defence committee in Yorkshire in obtaining Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: For The Cotswolds. European money. I assure him that he will have the full co-operation of my Department, the Environment Agency Richard Benyon: For Stroud actually. He was talking and other colleagues across Government in trying to about the scheme concerning small changes that can be secure any sort of funding that we can lever out of any made. We must have that level of flexibility. organisation. I very much include the European Union in that. He rightly talked about the need for slow-water The hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian schemes and to think up-stream. I have been discussing Hamilton) spoke with passion about the Leeds scheme the value of that with the hon. Member for Wansbeck and the cost of flooding to his community. I absolutely (Ian Lavery). We recognise that the beneficiaries in one understand that and the commercial driver that his community sometimes pay for flood defences in another community—that great city—is to that region. If we area, which may well affect the viability of farming follow that logical argument and consider the 5.2 million businesses and the like. We have to take a large regional homes that are at risk from flooding, for every single approach to the matter, which is why our new payment one of those homes that can get protection from flooding, for outcomes scheme takes a much broader view. The there will be a financial return. We have to make sure scheme recognises where beneficiaries are and what can that the financial return is as high as possible. That is be done to alleviate the problems in affected communities. why work can be done on that scheme in particular. As I was also asked how we are protecting businesses. the equally sensible contribution from his colleague the The economic benefits from protecting businesses from hon. Member for Leeds East (Mr Mudie) made clear, flooding are taken into account in the prioritisation we might risk having a Rolls-Royce when a reasonably schemes included in the payment for outcomes system. priced family car might have served some of the purpose. That has been the situation in the past and it will I cannot go into more detail about the matter now, but I continue to be so. We are working with the City of York will continue to look at it very closely to ensure that we council and the Environment Agency to consider get a result. opportunities for external funding. It is crucial that I shall quickly mention the point about the woodlands there is greater local involvement at the heart of reforming that were being built over. I cannot remember who the funding for flooding and coastal erosion risk raised the matter, but we need to understand the impact management. of the issue. That is why I have been totally opposed to My hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal so much of the infill development that we have seen, (Dr Coffey) made an excellent speech and raised some with building in back gardens and green spaces. The important issues. I was so impressed by the level of Government have a very clear policy on that which we innovation from her area. From my visit to her constituency, want to take forward. I remember sitting in the minibus with representatives I would love to address many of the other valid from the Environment Agency, Natural England, the points raised by, not least, the hon. Members for Copeland, local authority, local landowners and the local community. for Wansbeck and others, but I see that the clock is We drove along and ensured that none of them could against me. I do not want to repeat the increasingly get out, so that we could hack out some of the problems sterile debate about where we are and whether we are facing landowners who just want to make a small comparing apples with apples or apples with pears. In improvement and come up against two different agencies the case of the hon. Member for Copeland, I suggest it plus the local authority. The complications of the process is the latter. 129WH 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Citizens Advice Bureaux 130WH (Birmingham) Citizens Advice Bureaux (Birmingham) John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the city council is in fact offering interim funding to maintain the service, 4pm and that the CAB had not actually made proposals for Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Thank any savings whatever? you, Mr Sheridan, it is a pleasure to serve under your Jack Dromey rose— chairmanship. This is a debate of immense importance for the Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): This people of Birmingham. The Birmingham citizens advice is an intervention on my hon. Friend, but before I start bureau is the oldest and largest in the country, dating it I think the answer to the question asked by the hon. back to 1939. Progressively, the Birmingham CAB opened Member for Birmingham, Yardley is no. five offices in Birmingham to meet great and growing Would my hon. Friend comment on the fact that in demand. Last year, the Birmingham CAB provided the other place, Baroness Wilcox said: advice and support to 56,000 people. For those who “Central Government has not been notified of the closure of find it hard to access mainstream services, it also provides any citizens advice bureaux since the spending review settlement a comprehensive web of outreach services in, for example, 2010. The Government are aware that local authorities that fund GP practices, children’s centres, hospitals, dementia advice citizens advice bureaux are facing tough decisions but do not projects and Macmillan Cancer Support. expect them when making those decisions to pass on disproportionate cuts to other service providers, especially in the voluntary sector.”— The Birmingham CAB employs 100 full-time staff, [Official Report, House of Lords, 26 January 2011; Vol. 724, who work with a dedicated army of 166 volunteers, c. WA166.] including the excellent Paul Ballantyne who is here Would my hon. Friend join me in inviting the Minister, today and who is the chair of the trustees, and the when he responds, to tell us what it means, other than excellent John Orchard, a volunteer for the CAB. Both just words, if the Government let happen what looks have both devoted many years’ work to the CAB in like happening in Birmingham? support of the most vulnerable people in Birmingham. And vulnerable they certainly are; in Kingstanding, in Jack Dromey: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is my constituency, we have a CAB in one of the poorest proof positive, once again, that the Government are and most deprived wards in Britain—much cherished simply out of contact with the consequences of their by the people who live in the ward. actions. What is happening in Birmingham is clear Birmingham has been hard hit. The west midlands beyond any doubt. The question that we will be asking has the highest unemployment anywhere in Britain. Just today is what Ministers intend to do about it. when the people of Birmingham need somewhere to go On the point about the council, the hon. Member for for support and advice, the generalist advice services of Birmingham, Yardley asked whether the CAB had explored all five citizens advice bureaux will close. Why? On the alternatives. It has explored alternatives repeatedly. I one hand, it is a combination of the callous cuts being have seen the correspondence going backwards and made by the Government to local government services forwards. The CAB has tried to find a way forward, but in Birmingham, where £170 million will come out of the what has it been met with? Among other things, abuse budget next year alone; and on the other hand, the cruel from the cabinet member concerned, councillor Ayoub incompetence of the council. Khan. Just when the CAB was looking for a co-operative approach to try to find a way forward, including making Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I do economies consistent with protecting the service to the not know if my hon. Friend saw the Prime Minister’s community, it ran up against a brick wall. very helpful comment in The Sunday Telegraph, when he said that councils should look to reduce their chief John Hemming: Earlier, the hon. Gentleman claimed executives’ salaries before they cut citizens advice bureaux. that there was no proposal for any funding from April Given that the chief executive of Birmingham is one of onwards. In fact, there is a proposal to make interim the highest-paid in the country, should he and some of funding available. That, to be fair, is something that I his senior officers not take a cut before the CAB? have discussed with the CAB. Jack Dromey: There will be a crucial meeting on Jack Dromey: My hon. Friend makes a powerful Monday next week. As things stand, the CAB will have point. The last thing that should be cut is advice to the no alternative but to close down its generalist advice people of Britain from citizens advice bureaux. If there services—no alternative. If as a consequence of today, are to be reductions, they should start at the top in the Government say, standing by previous statements, Birmingham city council. that they mean what they say and that CABs should not The CAB had been planning for some council cuts close, and if the council sees sense, not only will the for some time, going back to March 2010, but suddenly, CAB celebrate, so too will the people of Birmingham. out of the blue, the bureaux were told in December just If there is no change, let us bring home what the before Christmas that they would lose all their funding consequences will be for the people of Birmingham. All from March 2011. The CAB then made repeated Members who represent Birmingham can give examples— approaches to the council to try to find a way forward. the kinds of problems that my hon. Friend the Member What have they been told? “Sorry, you will have to close for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) sees as well—but by March, but you can reapply for a fresh funding I shall give the House three. First, a quote: stream in August this year.” That means that the CAB’s “I didn’t know what sort of help to get regarding family generalist advice services will close down for five months, difficulty with breach of custody agreement. I was terrified that I with no certainty whatever that there will be support may lose my son to a hostel and wouldn’t know who to go to afterwards. about my rights as a father if it wasn’t for the CAB.” 131WH Citizens Advice Bureaux 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Citizens Advice Bureaux 132WH (Birmingham) (Birmingham) [Jack Dromey] Service. The CAB is a source of reliable, independent advice, and there is no alternative. If we lose it, our That difficult family problem was successfully resolved. people will lose. Secondly, a client of the CAB, disabled and living alone in an empty flat on a low income with no furniture, Jack Dromey: My hon. Friend speaks from her great had no idea about the support available—social tariffs experience in Birmingham, Edgbaston. She is absolutely for utilities, community care grant or budgeting loans right: these services, including the one for immigration, for furniture. Thanks to the CAB, that disabled woman are vital. The question then arises—Ministers will have now lives in comfort and is properly supported. Thirdly, to answer it—of where people will go if the fabric of there is the case of a client with cancer, who without the our advice services is torn apart. As I shall say in a help of the CAB would not have been able to challenge moment, it is not just the CAB; a total of 13 services successfully a decision not to award her benefits. will close in Birmingham. The consequences for people like them, and for the people of Birmingham more generally, will be severe John Hemming: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that indeed. Where will they turn at their time of need, and the CAB is a vital service, but does he agree that it just at a time when demand is increasing? should not take an all-or-nothing approach but be willing to compromise with the city council and aim to Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The issue for a maintain a service at a lower cost? great many of us as elected representatives and as MPs is that we recognise the good work that CABs do, but Jack Dromey: The hon. Gentleman is, to be frank, we also recognise that with the changes the coalition wrong. The CAB has made it consistently clear that it is Government are putting forward on benefits, demand prepared to do precisely that, but dialogue with Birmingham for CAB services will increase and concerns will increase. city council has proved to be a dialogue with the deaf. If Homelessness, loss of benefits and loss of income will he will speak out today and call on Birmingham city be critical issues over the next four to five years. council, and join the Labour MPs of Birmingham in hoping that good sense will break out next Monday, Jack Dromey: The hon. Gentleman makes a very that would be very welcome indeed. powerful point indeed. I suspect that all Members of Parliament, let alone advice agencies, are seeing the John Hemming: I have been working with the city same trend of growing demand for support from us: council on funding proposals to maintain a substantial advice on housing, advice on homelessness, advice on part of the CAB service, so that has been happening. benefits and advice on debt. A whole range of issues is coming to us because there is growing demand when the Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab): economy is in difficulties and at the same time the Will my hon. Friend give way? Government are cutting back vital services to the people of Britain and Northern Ireland. Jack Dromey: I will give way to my hon. Friend.

Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab): Does my hon. Mr Mahmood: The hon. Member for Birmingham, Friend agree that CABs and other advice agencies are Yardley (John Hemming) is not dealing with the real facing a double whammy because of the cuts? The issue. I have two CABs in my area—one in my constituency closure of the financial inclusion fund will leave 100,000 and one just outside—which serve some of the most people who were served last year with nowhere to turn deprived people in the area. Those people have real in the future, and more than 500 skilled and trained issues in respect of health, housing and mental health. advice workers are currently serving their notice. An organisation called COPE: Black Mental Health Foundation, which provides advice on mental health Jack Dromey: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She issues, will close in the next two months because the city brings to this debate the wisdom and experience of her council is not providing any support. The Asian Resource many years in the CAB. Her contribution is welcome, Centre is also closing. As my hon. Friend the Member and she is right to bring home once again the consequences for Birmingham, Erdington says, there will be huge of what the Government are doing. issues around support for the most vulnerable in our On the folly of the cuts, interesting independent society, but there has been no dialogue at all with the academic research has demonstrated that every £1 invested city council on that. in advice yields a return of up to £10 because early intervention produces the best results. What will happen—it Jack Dromey: My hon. Friend is, of course, right; it is is as simple as this—is that the CAB and other advice not just the CAB. Some of the 13 organisations that are services will be run down and closed, and there will be threatened are the Afro-Caribbean Millennium Centre, greater risk of debt, homelessness, poverty, mental health Age Concern in Birmingham and Perry Barr, the problems and relationship breakdown simply because Birmingham Asian Resource Centre, the TUC Centre tried and tested services upon which people depend at a for the Unemployed and the Chinese Community Centre. time of need have gone. A whole range of advice services catering for the needs of the various communities of Birmingham are all facing Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): closure. In total, between 80,000 and 100,000 people Does my hon. Friend, as a fellow Birmingham MP, seek advice from those 13 advice services each year. share my experience? The two agencies that I rely on That is one in 10 of Birmingham’s citizens, or one in most heavily when constituents come to my advice four families. Such is the scale of need that those surgeries are the CAB and the Immigration Advisory admirable institutions meet at present. 133WH Citizens Advice Bureaux 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Citizens Advice Bureaux 134WH (Birmingham) (Birmingham) It would appear that the cuts are not just cruel and The hon. Gentleman used the adjective “admirable” callous; they may be unlawful as well. The National on many occasions in describing the CABs in Birmingham, Council for Voluntary Organisations, an admirable and I am sure that he meant CABs everywhere. I concur organisation, has written to Birmingham city council to with him totally in that regard. raise concerns over the legality of the cuts in relation to consultation and equality impact assessments. Many of John Hemming: Will the Minister give way? us will give evidence in any proceedings that are held because we know from our experience that there was no Mr Davey: In a second—I just want to finish this proper consultation in advance, and that no serious point. impact assessments were conducted. The council made the decisions just before Christmas, and it has gone hell Like other hon. Members, I have advice surgeries in for leather to implement the next stages without proper my constituency every week. In fact, I have two every consultation or impact assessments. week, and have done so every week since 1997: every Monday morning at 8 am in my office, and on Thursday It is essential that the Government and the council or Friday night, or Saturday morning. I spend between act. If a solution is to be found that will secure the five and six hours—sometimes even nine hours—face to long-term future of these admirable organisations, there face with constituents every week, so I see many of the will need to be at least interim funding while we seek a kind of cases that the hon. Member for Birmingham, long-term solution. Erdington spoke about, whether about benefits, debt, housing or antisocial behaviour. Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. The situation is the My staff and I work with the CAB in Kingston. We same across the country. In my constituency, the CAB work with organisations such as Kingston Churches in Goole is facing a similar threat. I want to reinforce Action on Homelessness and several others to help the the point that he has just made. There has to be a most vulnerable in our society, and we do that willingly, long-term solution, because this is not something that as does every Member in this Chamber. We understand has not happened before. CABs are constantly battling the importance of the CAB. I understand the importance for various funding streams, but what we really need is that it has in our society, whether it is called the big something that puts their vital service on a proper, society or something else. I am afraid that the hon. long-term footing. I entirely agree with what he has Gentleman will have to get behind me in the queue to been saying. praise the work of the volunteers and professional staff of CABs in every community in our country and the Jack Dromey: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. work of the national organisation. I hope that when he He makes a powerful point based on his experience. The hears my remarks, he will understand that the Government current arrangements mean that this admirable institution, do support CABs. the CAB, lives from hand to mouth, never quite certain that it can count on the next funding round or stream, John Hemming: It helps to put the history on record. which makes it difficult to plan. John and Paul, who are Yes, the decision was taken in November that money here today, are outstanding at doing precisely that, but needed to be saved in this area, but the objective was to it is impossible for them to plan if they are told in maintain services, and, therefore, interim funding was December that they will have to close in March but they made available. The CAB took the view that it was all or might or might not get money in August. That is, to be nothing; it wanted to continue interim funding at the blunt, an absolute farce and something that requires same rate at which the funding was being withdrawn. urgent action by the Government to put right. To be fair, since then I have met with the chief executive Let me close on exactly those points. Clear views have of Citizens Advice, and although the meeting started been expressed on both sides of the Chamber that we with the position that it needed to maintain interim need action by Ministers. I say this with the greatest of funding at the same rate, it has now agreed to look for respect to the Minister: Ministers cannot wash their savings, but that is far too late. I have a meeting with hands of responsibility.If the big society means anything— Councillor Ayoub Khan about the matter on Friday, they proclaim that the CAB and advice agencies are a and let us hope that the CAB, rather than issuing key part—what do the Government intend to do about threats of legal action, is willing to co-operate to maintain the situation? Will they call on Birmingham city council services. I ask the CAB to co-operate to maintain— to think again? That is precisely what we hope for—that Birmingham city council will think again—when the Jim Sheridan (in the Chair): Order. An intervention meeting takes place on Monday next week. should be short. I pay tribute to Citizens Advice. It is an outstanding institution with outstanding employees and volunteers. John Hemming: I ask that the Minister co-operates It needs to be able to serve the people of Birmingham because there are other funding streams, which are also well for the next 70 years, as it has for the past 70. crucial.

4.17 pm Mr Davey: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, because it was helpful— The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I congratulate the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Several hon. Members rose— Dromey) on securing this debate on what I agree is an important subject. I would like to thank the Members Mr Davey: Let me answer the intervention first, and who intervened in the debate. then I will take subsequent interventions. 135WH Citizens Advice Bureaux 9 FEBRUARY 2011 Citizens Advice Bureaux 136WH (Birmingham) (Birmingham) [Mr Davey] the debate. I understand that local authorities are under serious pressure at the moment, as are Government, The information that my hon. Friend provided then Whitehall Departments and all those across the public and in other interventions backs up the information I sector. We have some difficult funding times, which is received—in no way has there been a final deal. People hardly a secret, and such long-term deals need to be locally, both on the council and in Birmingham CAB, seen in that context. From my local experience, I can are talking to each other. Local MPs such as my hon. recommend that strategic partnerships with key voluntary Friend are trying to help to resolve the issue, and are players, such as the CAB and the local council, can working hard on behalf of local people in Birmingham. resolve such problems more easily. That is exactly how it should be. Steve McCabe: I simply wanted to ask the Minister Richard Burden: May I gently put it to the Minister whether he is responding as part of a double act with that those of us who have experience working with the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Birmingham city council know that all too often it is Hemming). Will he ask the hon. Gentleman why there like trying to knit fog? Unlike the hon. Member for was no mention of transitional funds in the council Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming), rather than get report in November? That seems to have emerged when my knitting needles out, I would rather get rid of the the hon. Gentleman made his contribution today. fog. If the Minister has looked into the issue, will he answer the following question? Has he taken a view on Mr Davey: When I eventually get to that point in my whether Birmingham city council’s actions so far in speech, I will say that prior to today I was aware that dealing with this are compact-compliant? there was transitional funding. I do not think that it has emerged in the past few minutes. [Interruption.] Labour Mr Davey: The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised Members need to hear this, because there is a backdrop to hear that it would be wrong for a Minister to second-guess to the debate, which is the record deficit that the every action of every council in the country. I hope that Administration inherited. he will agree with that. If he agrees with localism, I We have had to take very difficult decisions. One of hope that he will agree that local authorities, and the the most difficult decisions I have had to take as Minister councillors who are elected to serve, should take meant telling the chief executive of Citizens Advice that responsibility and be accountable to their local electors. his budget—this was before Gillian Guy took over—had It is important that local councillors of all parties play to be cut in-year by a significant percentage. I did not their role in sorting out local problems in their areas. like having to deliver that decision, but I knew that we had to take tough decisions because we have such a Several hon. Members rose— difficult spending climate. It is exceedingly important that those tough decisions are taken fairly and are Mr Davey: I will take interventions, but if I make implemented. Local authorities will have to face up to some progress, I can talk about other issues germane to that issue—Birmingham city council, Kingston council the wider debate on Citizens Advice. and other councils as well. I shall give way to my hon. Friend, but I hope that he realises that I need to make Ms Gisela Stuart: I am grateful to the Minister for progress after his intervention. giving way. Given that six out of the 10 Birmingham MPs are here, and they have considerable experience of working with the council, will he say whether in his view John Hemming: I presume that the Minister agrees Birmingham is compact-compliant? It is a very important that CAB funding in Birmingham was perfectly stable point. until the Labour Government almost bankrupted the country. Mr Davey: I am afraid that I am not going to give the hon. Lady an answer to that question. It is important Mr Davey: It is very tempting to answer that question, that, as this is being settled and as the meetings we have but I shall make some progress. heard about—the one that has happened, the meeting As a result of the financial difficulties, all councils on Friday, and the meeting on Monday—try to resolve must re-examine how services are organised and run— the matter, they will ensure that any regulatory demands finding efficiencies and unlocking savings. We have sought from central Government are met. to make that task easier by scrapping most ring-fencing constraints on councils’ funding, so they have greater John Hemming: Does the Minister agree that the best freedom to manage resources in the best possible way. way forward is for the CAB and the council to op-operate That involves joining up back-office functions, sharing on how to maintain services, rather than issue threats of chief executives and other senior managers, and cutting legal action? out the duplication and waste associated with procurement. Where possible, that should not mean cuts to front-line Mr Davey: This is a wider point that applies beyond services. We say that not only to Birmingham city Birmingham. I certainly agree that it is important that council, but to all local authorities. local authorities and citizens advice bureaux in these It is worth noting that, although all citizens advice difficult times try to work together. I will talk about that bureaux are members of the national umbrella organisation, in a moment, if I can make some progress. Citizens Advice, they operate independently. I am sure I can give a view from the heart. A few years ago in that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington will my constituency, my local council signed up to a three-year admit that at least. Their funding is determined locally. strategic partnership with Kingston CAB to ensure that That is not new, but has been the case for many years it had stability of funding. That is one issue discussed in under the previous Administration and the Administration 137WH Citizens Advice Bureaux 9 FEBRUARY 2011 138WH (Birmingham) before that. Funding is determined by the relevant local Hospital Services (Shropshire) authority. That is how it should be, because the need for advice and such services varies dramatically across the country. I am sure that the needs of Birmingham are 4.30 pm different from the needs of Kingston. There should not Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): be any doubt about the fact that these should be local This important debate is on the reconfiguration of services. hospital services in Shropshire, and in almost six years as Member of Parliament for Shrewsbury, I have never Yvonne Fovargue: Will the Minister give way? received so many letters, e-mails and telephone calls from concerned constituents over a single issue. Many Mr Davey: I will give way to the hon. Lady because I of those calls have been emotional, and even though the know that she has worked so hard in this area and has consultation process is still ongoing, I feel it is my duty been a chief executive of a CAB. to use the platform that I have in the House of Commons to highlight a few of the concerns to the Minister. Yvonne Fovargue: Does the Minister agree that funding Part of the reconfiguration proposals would involve from the local authority often acts as seed-corn funding maternity and paediatric services moving from Shrewsbury for the other funding that citizens advice bureaux get? to Telford. I want the Minister to imagine the geography For every £1 that the local authority puts in, £10, on of Shropshire and mid-Wales. The Royal Shrewsbury average, from other sources is gained by bureaux. hospital covers not just the whole of Shropshire, but the whole of mid-Wales—a vast expanse just across the Mr Davey: I agree that funding from local authorities border. I am pleased that my hon. Friend the Member can be critical to how citizens advice bureaux plan for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) is present in the budgets, so I do not disagree with the point that the debate today. hon. Lady has made. Picture the wheel of a bicycle, and at the centre, the Jack Dromey: We are getting close to the end of the spokes coming into the middle. That is where Shrewsbury debate, and it is of the highest importance that a clear is in the area. Now imagine moving paediatric and message be sent to the people of Birmingham. A meeting maternity services right to the edge of the wheel. How is scheduled for next Monday and we hope progress will would that wheel function? Telford is at the edge of the be made. In the event of progress not being made next area, on the extreme eastern border close to Staffordshire. Monday, will the Minister be prepared to meet a delegation What is the sense in moving services so far away from from the Birmingham CAB—the admirable people who the rest of central Shropshire and mid-Wales? work for it, the admirable people who volunteer and I am so passionate about this issue that I raised it some of the people who depend upon it? during Prime Minister’s Question Time last week. The Prime Minister referred to the importance of public Mr Davey: I would not want to prejudge the meetings engagement and consultation, which he said was a that will happen over the next few days. It is up to fundamental aspect of any reconfiguration proposals. individual councils such as Birmingham to work with Therefore, I have asked the chief executive and the partner organisations to sort out some of the difficulties. primary care trust for a public meeting to be held in I understand that Birmingham city council has reviewed Shrewsbury on 11 February at the football stadium in advice provision within the whole city and will be our town. I believe that hundreds and hundreds of moving towards a new commissioning process in the people will attend. I intend to make a transcript of that summer. All the independent advice providers will be meeting and of all questions put to the PCT and the eligible to apply, and that will, of course, include the chief executive, and I will be sending that transcript to bureaux. the Minister. I also understand that the council recognises that there may be short-term problems for some of the Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): My hon. Friend independent advice providers during the period until knows that I also have a huge interest in this issue as I new contracts are awarded. I believe that it has a represent Montgomeryshire over the border. Does he transition fund, to which my hon. Friend the Member agree that the meetings that will be held in Montgomeryshire for Birmingham, Yardley referred, which might be used on 18, 23 and 24 February are of equal importance, and to help those organisations through that period. The that it is crucial for the health board and PCTs to take meeting, scheduled for Monday, will focus on discussing notice of them? We also depend on the services in that. Shropshire. Those are positive developments, which the hon. Daniel Kawczynski: I agree with my hon. Friend. We Member for Birmingham, Erdington did not touch on are cognisant of the fact that his constituents, the his speech, and it is worth putting them on record citizens of mid-Wales, do not have facilities across the because I hope they will result in a successful outcome. I border and are dependent on the Royal Shrewsbury am concerned that hasty decisions taken by councils hospital. The people of Wales must be listened to now could lead to the unnecessary loss of important equally, in the same way as the people of Shropshire. CAB services not only in Birmingham, but in other areas. I trust that, when local authorities work carefully I have slight concerns about the lack of sufficient with their citizens advice bureaux to strike up the strategic engagement by the authorities with local people. I pay partnerships I talked about, that will not happen. tribute to the chief executive and his colleagues. There have been public meetings, and the chief executive has met some of my constituents who have serious questions to ask on a one-to-one basis. Nevertheless, many letters 139WH Hospital Services (Shropshire)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Hospital Services (Shropshire) 140WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] the original consultation process and shows that the hospital trust has listened to Shrewsbury and Telford and e-mails have not been answered in a timely way or on that important point. to the degree that people wished for. Some people who have written in are retired senior consultants and experts Daniel Kawczynski: I concur with my hon. Friend in the field. I hope that all their questions will be and with the point that he makes in his usual eloquent answered. way. I have been told by the chief executive, and others, I am also concerned about the dates of the public that if we do not go for the proposals, we will potentially consultation. In began on 9 December and will finish put our foundation trust status at risk. If we put that at on 14 March. I find 9 December a rather strange time to risk, there is the possibility of losing services—and the start a public consultation. We all know how stressful management of those services—out of the county. Again, Christmas is at the best of times, and we would have I speak without medical experience, but I do not understand been gearing up to buy the Christmas tree and presents how we could enter into a consultation process but be and get our homes ready for festivities. A lot of people told that if we do not go for the proposals, services will in Shropshire will not have been thinking about the be lost from Shropshire. consultation as intently and with as much time and I cannot envisage a time when we have no maternity focus as they might have done, because they were distracted or paediatric services in the whole of Shropshire. That is by the coming festivities. If we are to have a public unthinkable to me, so I do not understand the logic of consultation, it must be held at the right time of the the trust. It is saying, “Take it or leave it, but if you leave year and there must be sufficient time for people to it, that’s it. We won’t get our foundation trust status and make their views heard. you’ll lose your services.” That position needs to be clarified because many people see it as a gun being David Wright (Telford) (Lab): I am grateful to my pointed at their heads and are therefore frightened to hon. Friend—I use that phrase pointedly—for giving challenge the proposals. way. There will be a consultation in Telford next week, and I hope that people will come to it. It is important that people across Shropshire express their opinions. Glyn Davies: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his Does my hon. Friend accept that under the proposals, tolerance in allowing me to make a second intervention. both hospitals have to give something in order to sustain The point that he has just raised is key. Everyone, health services in Shropshire? Acute surgery would including, I am sure, my hon. Friend, recognises that move to Shrewsbury, and some elements of paediatric there must be a reconfiguration of services. The points and maternity services would move to Telford. There that have been made are crucial. However, that does not will be a balance between the two hospitals. We do not necessarily mean that the reconfiguration of services want to see services move out of the county, and if we that is before us has to be the case. The argument is not are to sustain services in Shropshire, I think this is the about whether there should be a reconfiguration of best plan we are going to get. services, but about how that should take place. In the interests of the people of Montgomeryshire, I think that services are best placed not where it is convenient Daniel Kawczynski: I will reciprocate by referring to for a balance in Shropshire, but where they are accessible the hon. Gentleman as my hon. Friend. We are from to the people who will use them. different parties but we are colleagues. We get on well, and across the parties we have a passion for Shropshire. I will come later to the importance of retaining services Daniel Kawczynski: I completely concur with my in Shropshire. However, constituents do not pay attention hon. Friend on that point. to services that come to their area; they are focused on I shall briefly relate a couple of specific cases. I have those that are leaving. That is why they are pressing me been inundated with hundreds of letters on this issue. to highlight these issues in Parliament. My own daughter was born at the Royal Shrewsbury My other concern is that there is no plan B. This is a hospital, and it was the proudest day of my life when consultation process in which the chief executive and my daughter was born within the community that I the board come forward with proposals. However, there represent. She is not just a Salopian; she is a Shrewsbury are no shades of grey—it is take it or leave it. I speak girl and she will have that with her for the rest of her purely as a layman, but if there is only one option, it is life. For us in Shrewsbury, being a Salopian is important, difficult for a large group of people, many of whom do but being a Shrewsbury girl? Now that is something not have medical experience, to scrutinise that proposal. special. I feel so passionately about that. Surely, if we are to genuinely engage with local people, One constituent’s family is directly affected by the differences and alternative options could be put forward proposals, as her three-year-old son needs 24-hour open so that the community as a whole could come together, access to the children’s ward at the Royal Shrewsbury debate them and make recommendations. hospital because he suffers from severe haemophilia. He needs treatment to be administered every other day Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): Does my hon. and any additional treatment on demand if he should Friend accept that in an ideal world, both hospital sites cut himself. I was told that it was vital for my constituent’s would have all-singing, all-dancing acute and clinical son to be admitted immediately to the children’s ward services? However, we do not live in an ideal world, but via A and E and not to be sent down the motorway to in a time of constrained public finances. Does he accept the Princess Royal hospital. How can that mother of a that the current consultation recognises the importance son with haemophilia empower herself to make her of having an accident and emergency ward at both views known if the overview and scrutiny committee is Shrewsbury and Telford? That is a breakthrough from not minded to refer this issue to the Minister? 141WH Hospital Services (Shropshire)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Hospital Services (Shropshire) 142WH

The issue has also been raised with me by the father had enough of that over the years. I want to work of a child who was previously a cancer patient treated at constructively with my colleagues and with the trust to the Royal Shrewsbury hospital. He talks about the come up with the best possible solution for our beautiful appeal in 2003 for a designated children’s cancer unit at county. the Shrewsbury hospital. It raised £500,000 and the unit was completed in 2005. My constituent told me that 4.47 pm “many people across Shropshire and Mid Wales donated or gave The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon up many hours to fundraise, only to now find that the purpose built unit will…stand unused as Children’s services are being Burns): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for moved to Telford with no provision for this desperately needed Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) on securing unit which provides an essential service to families facing unimaginable this debate on hospital services in Shropshire. I am sure turmoil whose children are being treated for cancer.” that his constituents will be pleased to know that he has I have been told of the severe disruption and anguish raised an issue of such great importance to his local that will result from the need for seriously ill patients to community. I also pay tribute to the staff of the NHS travel from Shrewsbury if it is left with no consultant-led across the whole of the county of Shropshire, who do surgery, which may result in a catastrophic delay in such an incredible job caring for the constituents of my emergency treatment. hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Telford (David Wright). They deserve and will receive the Government’s I also want to mention Joshua, a young boy in my full support. constituency who has chronic lung disease. His mother, Hayley Corfield, wrote to me about him. He has had Before I come to the specifics of Shropshire, I shall bronchial problems since birth and is now 14 and set out the Government’s general approach to the constantly in and out of hospital. I have been given the reconfiguration of health services, as my hon. Friend most extraordinary list, which I will send to the Minister, referred to the answer that he received from my right of the medications that this poor young boy is on. He hon. Friend the Prime Minister last week. The Government lives in Shrewsbury. His mother tells me that there have passionately believe that local decision making is essential been many near misses in the last few years in terms of to improve outcomes for patients and to drive up quality. saving his life—resuscitating him. She is desperately We do more than just talk about pushing power to the worried about the impact on her son and the chances of local level; we are doing it. his survival if, suffering from this chronic disease, he has In May 2010, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of to travel for an extra 20 minutes to Telford. I am State for Health identified four crucial tests that all therefore raising these issues with the Minister today. reconfigurations must pass. First, they must have the The Minister kindly wrote to me. In his letter, he support of GP commissioners. Secondly, arrangements notes that I am planning to call a public meeting and for public and patient engagement, including local encourages me authorities, must be further strengthened. Thirdly, there must be greater clarity about the clinical evidence base “to ensure views from that meeting are fed back to the local NHS underpinning any proposals. Fourthly, any proposals via the consultation mechanism, so local concerns are fully taken into account.” must take into account the need to develop and support patient choice. The next part is the bit that I am excited and happy about and grateful to him for—I know that he is one of I understand that NHS West Midlands has given an the best Ministers we have. He says: assurance that the case for change is underpinned by those tests. Let me be clear what that means. Hospital “The Department will be watching the outcomes from the closures that do not have the support of GPs, local consultation exercise with interest.” clinicians, patients and the local community should not I know that he cannot get involved at this stage, but I happen. There should be ample opportunity for patients, am extremely grateful that he has said that he will be local GPs and clinicians and local councils to have a far watching with interest the outcome of that consultation greater role in how services are shaped and to ensure process. that these changes will lead to the best outcomes for I have today written to all the general practitioners patients. who practise in Shrewsbury and Atcham. Again, the It is important to remember that local public consultation Prime Minister stated at Prime Minister’s questions, is the vehicle through which to ensure that everyone and it was reconfirmed to me by my right hon. Friend with an active interest in proposed changes to their the Secretary of State for Health, that the views of local local health service gets their say. In this case, local general practitioners would have to be taken into account consultations began on 9 December 2010 and are scheduled before any reconfiguration process could occur. I wanted to conclude on 14 March 2011. My hon. Friend mentioned an independent assessment of their views, rather than it it, but if it is any consolation to him, Christmas and the being handed to me by the PCT or anyone else. I have new year holidays came during that period. The normal therefore written today to all the general practitioners consultation time is 12 weeks, and if my maths is right in my constituency and I urge my hon. Friends to do this consultation process will take 13 and a half weeks likewise if they so wish. I will compile the results of the including the holidays. views of local general practitioners in Shrewsbury and It should be stressed that consultation is by no means will share their views anonymously. I will not refer to a fait accompli. It is a democratic process that allows specific people, but I will share their views with the full and open participation in considering all the options Minister. for service change. If an overview and scrutiny committee I am extremely grateful for the 15 minutes that I have is not satisfied that adequate NHS consultation has had and for the constructive way in which we have taken place, or decides that proposals do not meet the debated this issue. It is extremely emotive. I do not want needs of the local community, it may refer the matter to to get into a Shrewsbury-Telford pillow fight. We have the Secretary of State for Health. 143WH Hospital Services (Shropshire)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Hospital Services (Shropshire) 144WH

[Mr Simon Burns] 5.8 pm On resuming— I understand that there has been a long history of debate on the best way to organise hospital services in Shropshire. A previous review failed to provide a lasting Mr Burns: As I was saying when we broke for the way forward for the county. Local organisations are Division, the consultation document suggests that this now taking this review forward, and they believe that is likely to mean that the bulk of in-patient, children changes need to be made in the near future to ensure and maternity services will be provided at the Princess that services continue to be provided safely. Over the Royal hospital in Telford. A range of acute surgery, last decade, the NHS in Shropshire has identified a including trauma and orthopaedic surgery, and various number of services, including accident and emergency, surgical and other services would remain at, or move to, acute surgery, maternity, neo-natal, in-patient, paediatrics Shrewsbury.Both sites would continue to provide midwife- and urology, that face an increasing challenge in trying led maternity units, with improved accommodation to provide 24-hour cover by senior medical staff at local provided for the midwife-led unit at the Royal Shrewsbury hospitals. hospital site. All pregnant women who are assessed as being likely to have a low risk of complication in the As the public consultation document explains, there later stages of pregnancy would still have the opportunity are five main reasons for that. First, the increasing to choose to have their baby in a midwife-led maternity specialisation of staff means that fewer consultants are unit or at home. able to provide general emergency cover. That is a particular problem in general surgery if it is split between Gynaecological services and antenatal out-patient two sites. Secondly, out-of-hours arrangements mean and day care services will continue to be available at that some consultants have to cover a number of services both sites, as will children’s out-patient services. It is and sites at the same time. That places unrealistic pressure proposed that a number of specialist surgery services, on staff, and it can put patients at risk. Thirdly, the whether for planned or emergency operations, would be European working time directive limits the time that concentrated at the Royal Shrewsbury hospital: vascular medical staff are allowed to work to an average of surgery; colorectal surgery, and upper gastro-intestinal 48 hours a week. Fourthly, due to the relatively spread-out surgery. I also understand that funding will be made nature of the Shropshire sites and the area’s rurality, it available so that the Royal Shrewsbury hospital will can be difficult for junior doctors to see the wide range gain phase 3 status as a specialist aortic aneurism of patients necessary for their training. Fifthly, those centre. factors collectively could make it difficult to recruit The consultation states that most surgery for life- high-quality medical staff, particularly consultants. threatening trauma is already carried out by surgeons at The current configuration of services results in the Royal Shrewsbury hospital and that would continue duplication between the Royal Shrewsbury and Princess to be the case under these proposals. Also, 24-hour Royal hospitals. It also limits the ability to develop the accident and emergency services will remain at both more specialised services that could be provided in hospitals. Therefore, proposals in the consultation document Shropshire, Telford and The Wrekin. That is not sustainable. appear to point to a vision of both hospitals providing a diverse range of services that complement each other. This is the opportunity for all those with an interest in making changes to local health services to become This review has been led by clinicians. Proposals are involved. My hon. Friend has called for an additional based on work led by senior doctors, nurses and other public meeting in Shrewsbury; that takes place on Friday health care professionals in the county, working with 11 February. As I said in my letter, I strongly encourage partners from local authorities, community and voluntary my hon. Friend to note the views raised at the public organisations, and patient and public representatives. I meeting, so that they can be fed in to the consultation understand that the local NHS has involved a number process. Before a final decision is made following the of clinical staff in its local assurance process, including conclusion of the consultation process, those views will clinical experts from outside Shropshire, such as the have been heard and considered. director of nursing from Leicester Royal Infirmary and a consultant paediatrician from Manchester, as well as The consultation document explores four options. a number of clinical staff with related experience who Option 1 is to do nothing. That is not considered work within the trust but who had not been involved feasible by the local NHS. A second option is to concentrate previously in developing future options. all major and emergency activity on the site of one or other of the existing two hospitals, with planned activity I am assured that NHS West Midlands will consider at the other. That has been looked at carefully, and I results of the public consultation, as is appropriate, understand that that is not considered feasible either. A before any results are presented to the local NHS boards. third option is to build a new hospital, but that has been I also understand that the local NHS is keeping all local discounted because of the financial climate. A fourth MPs briefed on the consultation process. option, the preferred local NHS option, means moving I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury services between the two sites to make the most effective and Atcham has campaigned vigorously in the past for use of staff, equipment, and buildings. retaining services at his local hospital. May I assure him The consultation document suggests that this is likely that I fully appreciate his desire for a process that is to mean that the bulk of in-patient, children and maternity open and transparent, one that does not end with services— decisions made behind closed doors after only a derisory nod to public consultation? His constituents, like those of all right hon. and hon. Members, deserve local 4.54 pm health services that have the confidence of local GP Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. commissioners and of local people themselves. 145WH Hospital Services (Shropshire)9 FEBRUARY 2011 Hospital Services (Shropshire) 146WH

I also point out to my hon. Friend that because we as part of what is a very important consultation process are in the middle of a consultation process it would be for the whole county of Shropshire, to ensure the right totally inappropriate for me to seek to influence or configuration of services in local hospitals to meet the compromise that process by becoming directly involved. needs of local people. There are avenues open through the consultation process, Question put and agreed to. as my hon. Friend knows well, and I know that he is working vigorously, as demonstrated by his holding a meeting in Shrewsbury on 11 February, to make sure 5.13 pm that the voice of his constituents is heard and considered Sitting adjourned.

9WS Written Ministerial Statements9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS

1Alternative notional amounts apply to all classes of authority Written Ministerial except for fire and rescue authorities. 2Unlike other authorities, the GLA calculates two basic amounts of council tax; one under section 88(2) of the Greater London Statements Authority Act 1999 and one under section 89(3) of that Act. 3SI 2008/3022. Central Bedfordshire and Shropshire were established Wednesday 9 February 2011 on 1 April 2009. In order to equalise council tax more fairly in their areas, part 4 of SI 2008/3022 enables the authorities to calculate different basic amounts of council tax for their predecessor areas for up to five financial years. By contrast all other authorities (except the GLA) must calculate only one basic amount of COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT council tax.

Council Tax Research Projects

The Secretary of State for Communities and Local The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Government (Mr Eric Pickles): On 13 December, I Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Today indicated that when the House debated the final local the Government are publishing a group of reports government finance report I would set out council tax presenting the findings from research projects commissioned capping principles that will apply to local authorities’ by the previous Administration. budgets for 2011-12. I am therefore now informing the There is a significant backlog of unpublished reports House that I will consider an authority to have set an that were produced by the previous Government and excessive increase if: over the next few months we will be publishing these (a) the amount calculated by the authority as its reports in groups themed on a particular topic. budget requirement for 2011-12 is more than 92.5% The reports and findings are of general policy interest, of— but do not relate to forthcoming policy announcements. (i) the authority’s alternative notional amount; or We are publishing these documents in the interests of (ii) where no such amount has been specified for transparency and as part of our freedom of information the authority, the authority’s budget requirement for commitment to publish the results of all commissioned 2010-111; and research. For transparency, all completed work is being (b) the amount calculated by the authority as its published regardless of format or robustness. band D council tax for 2011-12 is more than 3.5% greater The five reports published today represent the findings than the same amount calculated for 2010-11 (except from three research projects at a total cost of £191,000, see below). excluding VAT. These findings cover fire-related topics. Different principles will apply to the Greater London The Government are concerned to ensure their research Authority (GLA), and to the councils of Central delivers best possible value for money for the taxpayer Bedfordshire and Shropshire. The reasons for this are— and that sums expended are reasonable in relation to in the case of the GLA, because the authority calculates its the public policy benefits obtained. DCLG has put in council tax in a different way from other authorities2, and place scrutiny and challenge processes for future research. in the case of Central Bedfordshire and Shropshire, because All new projects will be scrutinised to ensure the the authorities set their basic amounts of council tax for methodology is sound and that all options for funding 2010-11 under part 4 of the Local Government (Structural Changes) (Finance) Regulations 20083 and may do so again are explored at an early stage. This includes using for 2011-12. existing work from other organisations, joint funding projects with other Departments or organisations and My officials will write to these three authorities separately taking work forward in-house. with further technical details about how the principles applicable to them will operate. However, I can confirm Cost of Fire that the policy aim of the capping principles for 2011-12 (i) The Economic Cost of Fire: Estimates for 2006—This is the same for all authorities and that the principles report provides an estimate of the cost of fire to the economy for the GLA, Central Bedfordshire and Shropshire are in England in 2006. designed to ensure that appropriate comparisons can (ii) The Economic Cost of Fire: Estimates for 2008—This be made between the band D council tax set by those report was produced by DCLG researchers. The spreadsheet authorities in 2010-11 and 2011-12. model developed for the 2006 estimates was used to update I am this year announcing these principles before the the cost of fire estimates to 2008. dates by which authorities have to set their budgets. Retained Duty System This contrasts with the approach of the previous (iii) Survey of Retained Duty System (RDS) personnel, former Government, which always required authorities to wait staff and FRS managers—Part A—A survey of serving and and see whether the council tax they had set would be former RDS personnel. This is the first part of a report considered excessive by reference to principles not decided providing findings of a survey of serving and former RDS until after the deadlines for setting their budgets had personnel in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. passed. (iv) A Survey of Retained Duty System (RDS) personnel, former staff and FRS managers—Part B—A survey of RDS Moving forward, the Government intend to end the managers. This is the second part of the report and provides capping regime and replace it with a more democratic the findings of an organisational survey completed by RDS and localist measure to allow local residents to veto managers from fire and rescue services in England, Scotland excessive council tax rises via a local referendum. and Northern Ireland. 11WS Written Ministerial Statements9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS

Fire Service Emergency Cover (FSEC) major incidents of the Terrorism Act 2000 with a more tightly circumscribed risk assessment module power. Consistent with those changes, I have decided (v) FSEC major incidents risk assessment module: background to make a similar amendment to a power of stop and research—This report details the work carried out to specify search in Northern Ireland. a method of assessing the risk from different types of major I intend to amend the power to stop and search incident in a way that could be incorporated into the FSEC toolkit software and to provide suitable risk factors based on a person without reasonable suspicion contained in data available at the time of the work. paragraph 4 of Schedule 3 to the Justice and Security These reports and findings are of general policy (Northern Ireland) Act 2007. In future, prior authorisation interest, but do not relate to forthcoming policy by a senior police officer, confirmed by the Secretary of announcements and are not a reflection of the current State, will be required before the power to search a Government’s policies and priorities. DCLG is publishing person without reasonable suspicion to ascertain whether these reports in the interests of transparency. he has munitions unlawfully with him or wireless apparatus with him can be exercised by a police officer. I will also Copies of these reports are available on the DCLG create a new power for police officers to search for such website. Copies have been placed in the Library of the items with reasonable suspicion. In due course I will House. exercise the power in section 34 of the 2007 Act to make a code of practice governing the exercise of these powers. NORTHERN IRELAND Powers of stop and search for the military under the 2007 Act will not be amended. Counter-Terrorism Legislation Review Changes to the legislation will be brought forward in the protection of freedoms Bill, which will be introduced The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen into Parliament shortly. Robert Whalley, the reviewer of Paterson): Following the counter-terrorism legislation the operation of these powers appointed under section 40 review the Home Secretary decided to replace section 44 of the 2007 Act, is aware of the changes I plan to make. 229W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 230W

(included in the Westminster budget) will travel to a Written Answers to constituency office in exceptional circumstances when these external services fail to resolve a technical problem. Questions

Wednesday 9 February 2011 TRANSPORT

Departmental Food SCOTLAND Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Departmental Information Officers whether his Department guidelines on ensuring that food used for his Department’s official functions is of Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland domestic origin. [25533] how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) Norman Baker: The Department for Transport has communications strategy officers and (e) other positions no formal guidelines on ensuring that food for official with a communications remit were employed by (i) his Department functions is of domestic origin. However, Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- it is the policy of our catering provider to work with departmental public body sponsored by his Department small local suppliers (accounting for over 65% of its on the most recent date for which figures are available. fresh produce) where possible, in order to reduce food [38960] miles and support local communities. The Department’s staff handbook states that the David Mundell: The Scotland Office currently have offering of hospitality should not be regarded as the four members of staff who are responsible for internal normal way of conducting business. On each occasion communications, strategic planning, website, answering staff should consider carefully what form and extent of media enquiries and handling the media work of our hospitality should be offered and if it can be justified. two Ministers in London and Scotland. They also support In addition all official expenditure on hospitality should the work of the Office of the Advocate General for be made on the basis that it is directly and significantly Scotland. conducive to the furtherance of the business of the Department.

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION Departmental Libraries Parliamentary Information and Communications Technology Service Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many (a) certified and (b) chartered librarians his Department has employed in each year since its Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the hon. Member for creation. [37661] Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons Commission, what Parliamentary Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does ICT’s budget is for the provision of IT support for hon. not hold this level of skills information about our staff. Members in (a) Westminster and (b) constituency However, our library services are run by the Department offices in 2010-11. [38294] for Communities and Local Government. John Thurso: PICT IT support services are provided to all users of parliamentary IT. The total cost of this High Speed 2: Finance support is £1.87 million for 2010-11. The service is not disaggregated for specific user groups. However 60% of Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for the calls derive from Members of the House of Commons Transport what assessment he has made of the merits and their staff, making the proportionate cost of IT applying to the European Commission for funding for support to Members of the House of Commons and High Speed 2 from the TEN-T programme. [38808] their staff £1.122 million pa. The IT support service is based at Westminster and Mr Philip Hammond: The report from HS2 Ltd., provides telephone and face to face engineering support published in March 2010, indicated that TEN-T funding on the parliamentary estate. The service provides telephone for HS2 may be possible. HS2 Ltd.’s report is available and remote handling support to locations away from at the parliamentary estate, including constituency offices. www.dft.gov.uk/highspeedrail There is no specific funding for IT support to Members in constituencies. When required, emergency support London and Southeastern Railway: Fares for the repair of loan equipment is provided by an external suppler under the guarantee bought with the Sir John Stanley: To ask the Secretary of State for equipment. Members are entitled to have broadband Transport for what reasons the 11.8% increase in rail connection provided to locations away from the fares by Southeastern for commuters from Tonbridge parliamentary estate for up to three locations at a was almost three times the 3.1% increase in rail fares by maximum cost of £852 per annum and support for this First Capital Connect for commuters from Brighton. is provided by the external supplier. Two PICT engineers [37744] 231W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 232W

Mrs Villiers [holding answer 4 February 2011]: The Additionally, contingency planning for dealing with franchise agreement sets out the caps that apply to major oil spills is subject to a major review in light of increases in fares in respect of the maximum increase in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill in 2010. The Oil Spill any individual regulated fare and a weighted average of Response Advisory Group (OSPRAG) has been established all regulated fares. Train operators are permitted to to undertake this review, which will inform the next decide increases to individual fares so long as the fares refresh of the NCP. increases are compliant with those caps. Sea Rescue Sir John Stanley: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the maximum permissible fare increase Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport for season ticket-holders travelling from (a) West whether he has received representations from the Malling to London with Southeastern, (b) Tonbridge government of France on his proposed changes to to London with Southeastern and (c) Edenbridge to coastguard coverage; and if he will make a statement. London with Southeastern on the Uckfield line is under existing franchises and regulation of rail fares. [38060] [37745] Mike Penning: We have received representations from Mrs Villiers [holding answer 4 February 2011]: The the French Government. They were in the context of franchise agreement sets out the caps that apply to their concerns regarding the removal of the emergency increases in fares in respect of the maximum increase in towing vessel, the Anglian Monarch, which covers the any individual regulated fare and a weighted average of Dover Strait area and is subject to co-funding arrangements all regulated fares. Train operators are permitted to with France. decide increases to individual fares so long as the fares increases are compliant with those caps. Transport: Co-operatives

Maritime and Coastguard Agency: Closures Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of the potential (a) Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport barriers to entry for co-operatives within the rail, b) (c) what type and level of written risk assessments have ( bus and ports industry; and if he will make a been undertaken in connection with proposed Maritime statement. [38215] and Coastguard Agency coastguard station closures. [38482] Norman Baker [holding answer 7 January 2011]: The Department for Transport is in the early stages of Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 4 February 2011]: developing a framework for assessing applications for There are no proposals to close coastguard stations. I employee co-operatives. Applications to form employee am consulting on proposals for the reorganisation of co-operatives will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centres. Officials across the Department are working closely The assessment of risk is an integral part of all policy with the Cabinet Office, which is developing central development. In developing these proposals the Maritime guidance for Departments in this area. and Coastguard Agency has at all stages assessed every No formal assessment of barriers to entry for element against the systemic risks to delivery of our co-operatives within the (a) rail, (b) bus and (c) ports national Coastguard service. industry has been made, though we recognise that many As these proposals are fundamentally systems-driven of the undertakings in the transport sector are private and not location orientated, no separate ’risk assessment’ companies, and in such cases public sector co-operatives has been carried out in respect of each Maritime Rescue might not be relevant. Coordination Centre location, although a range of factors was considered in determining our proposed closures or Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for conversions to ‘daytime’ operation. Transport how many officials of his Department are working on the use of co-operative mutual models of A formal risk assessment covering the overall UK service delivery within his Department’s (a) International delivery operation will be published this week. Strategy Directorate, (b) Domestic Directorate, (c) Major Projects and London Directorate and (d) General Oil: Emergencies Counsels Office. [38216]

Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Norman Baker [holding answer 7 February 2011]: what assessment he has made of the adequacy of (a) The Department for Transport is in the early stages of emergency planning and (b) contingency planning in developing a framework for assessing applications for place to deal with major oil spillages off the UK coast. employee co-operatives. [39306] A small number of officials from the Department’s Corporate Group and General Counsel’s Office have Mike Penning: The National Contingency Plan for been involved with this work to date. They are working Marine Pollution from Shipping and Offshore Installations closely with the Cabinet Office, which is developing (NCP) details the UK emergency and contingency planning central guidance for Departments. Wider involvement for oil spillages off the UK coast; this document is of officials across the Department will follow with the regularly refreshed to ensure it remains up to date. finalisation of this guidance. 233W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 234W

Transport: Snow and Ice CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT

Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Arts: Employment what discussions he has had with (a) rail operators and (b) airlines on the recent severe weather conditions; Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for and if he will make a statement. [34064] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many people are employed in the arts sector in each local authority Mrs Villiers: Officials in the Department for Transport area in the North East; and if he will make a statement. closely monitor rail performance and are in regular [38364] contact with train operating companies. During the recent period of severe weather, officials were in daily Mr Vaizey: The Department does not hold this contact with train operators to ensure services were information. However, Arts Council England has provided being maintained. figures relating to the number of arts sector staff, in each employment category, in their Regularly Funded During the worst of the weather, Ministers and Organisations (RFOs). The 2009-10 figures for the North departmental officials have maintained discussions with East are set out in the following table. affected operators and Network Rail through personal contact and telephone conference. I have been kept Permanent Permanent informed of the operational status of rail services during North East full-time part-time Contractual the most severe weather conditions. Alnwick 7 5 33 During this period, the Secretary of State for Transport Berwick-upon- 3116 spoke to both train operating companies and Network Tweed rail regarding severe weather issues. He also spoke with Darlington 26 21 116 Easyjet, the chief executive of the Civil Aviation Authority Derwentside 4 0 170 and with British Airways on three occasions. Durham 7 2 456 I have recently discussed the rail industry’s response Gateshead 221 340 735 to the crisis at a meeting with senior representatives of Hartlepool 2 0 22 Network Rail and the train operators. I have also chaired Middlesbrough 22 13 199 a discussion on the performance of airports during the Newcastle upon 170 145 889 severe winter weather within the South East Airports Tyne Taskforce. Newcastle- 47 27 210 under-Lyme Trust Ports North Tyneside 2 4 22 Redcar and 1893 Cleveland Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for South Tyneside 21 27 88 Transport pursuant to the answer of 26 January 2011, Stockton-on- 23 18 49 Official Report, column 265W, on trust ports, what Tees procedures in the Harbours Act 1964 are referred to in Sunderland 31 47 30 the Answer. [38319] Tynedale 15 16 40 Total 602 684 3,158 Mike Penning: As indicated in the previous answer to my hon. Friend on 26 January 2011, Official Report, Broadband column 265W, the Marine Management Organisation is now responsible for determining harbour revision orders. Guidance and further information on the procedures Sajid Javid: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, for obtaining an order are available from this organisation’s Olympics, Media and Sport if he will assess the merits website at: of taking steps to assist local authorities in the provision of universal wireless broadband access. [38546] http://marinemanagement.org.uk/works/harbour/documents/ harbour_guide.pdf Mr Vaizey: We have adopted a technology neutral approach to our plans for nationwide broadband access. Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Broadband Delivery UK (BDUK) is working with local Transport if he will review the role and function of the authorities in England and the devolved Administrations Marine Management Organisation for the purposes of in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, to support determining whether a harbour revision order should the development of project proposals including through be used to set aside clauses in the Ports Act 1991 which the production of local broadband plans for possible allow him to require a trust port to change its Government funding. Technology solutions will vary constitution and enter the private sector. [38325] from location to location but are likely to include a mix of technologies including fixed, fixed wireless and satellite Mike Penning: We have no plans to review. The broadband. Marine Management Organisation is an executive non- departmental public body established and given powers Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for under the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Since Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether his 1 April 2010, it has been responsible for determining all Department plans to monitor broadband projects which new applications for harbour revision and empowerment have been funded by regional development agencies orders. (RDAs) after the abolition of RDAs. [38732] 235W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 236W

John Penrose: Closure of RDA projects will be dealt gambling taken together, online gambling, online betting, with as part of the overall process of abolition. spread betting and betting exchanges, calculated on Where any broadband networks supported by RDAs the basis of the dataset of the 2007 British Gambling continue to be rolled out after abolition, Broadband Prevalence Survey on the latest date for which figures Delivery UK will monitor developments as appropriate. are available. [38655] Coastal Areas: Hotels John Penrose: The information requested can be found on the Gambling Commission’s website here: Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/ Olympics, Media and Sport whether his Department is research__consultations/research/bgps/bgps_2007/ taking steps to promote smaller hotels in seaside towns; bgps_2007_related_research/bgps_social__internet.aspx and if he will make a statement. [39201] The compound figure does not include spread betting. John Penrose: Smaller hotels in seaside towns will The British Gambling Prevalence Survey 2010 will be benefit both from VisitEngland’s (VE’s) thematic marketing published by the Gambling Commission on 15 February which will be promoting coastline and coastal resorts, 2011. and from activities associated with ‘attract and disperse’ marketing which will also include coastal resorts. VE’s main priority is to grow the domestic tourism market, Museums and Galleries encouraging more people to take holidays and make visits within this country. Stakeholders across the industry will benefit from this approach. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many visitors there Cultural Relations: Australia were to each (a) art gallery and (b) museum funded by his Department in each of the last 20 years; and what assessment he has made of the effect on visitor numbers Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for of the introduction of free admission to such venues. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what his policy is [38503] on the repatriation to Australia of Australian indigenous human remains held by institutions in the UK. [38926] Mr Vaizey: Since the introduction of free admission Mr Vaizey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I in 2001, visits to museums which previously charged gave him on 8 December 2010, Official Report, column have increased by 128%--rising from 7.2 million to 329W. 16.3 million in 2009-10. Departmental Manpower The number of visits to galleries and museums sponsored by the Department for the last 16 years are detailed in the following tables. Figures prior to 1990-91 are not Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for available. Visit data from between 1990 and 1998 are Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many staff in drawn from the Department’s annual reports. Data (a) his Department and (b) Ofcom worked wholly on from 1998-99 onwards have been collected by the digital economy policy and implementation (i) on the Department. most recent date for which figures are available and (ii) (a) Art galleries on 1 January 2010. [38734] National National Portrait Mr Vaizey: The Department does not hold information Gallery Gallery Tate Gallery on the exact number of staff who worked wholly on the digital economy policy and implementation. 1990-91 3,700,000 600,000 2,170,000 1991-92 4,400,000 600,000 2,500,000 However, there are approximately 32 staff in Department 1992-93 4,200,000 560,000 2,200,000 for Culture, Media and Sport, and an approximate 1993-94 4,000,000 790,000 2,700,000 figure of 40 staff from the Department for Business, 1994-95 4,350,000 930,000 2,800,000 Innovation and Skills who work across Media and Communications issues as at 1 January 2010. 1995-96 3,900,000 820,000 3,000,000 1996-97 4,000,000 890,000 2,500,000 Two members of Ofcom staff worked wholly on 1997-98 4,200,000 950,000 2,200,000 digital economy policy and implementation on the most 1998-99 4,800,000 994,491 3,033,527 recent date for which figures were available. No members 1999-2000 5,000,000 996,712 2,482,522 of Ofcom staff worked wholly on this area on 1 January 2000-01 4,780,000 1,219,167 6,733,691 2010. 2001-02 4,859,000 1,479,179 5,528,219 Other members of Ofcom staff also work on digital 2002-03 4,100,000 1,319,527 6,332,787 economy policy and implementation as needed on an 2003-04 4,648,000 1,425,655 6,214,869 ad hoc basis. 2004-05 4,909,000 1,468,875 6,293,000 Gambling: Internet 2005-06 3,953,000 1,528,628 6,412,000 2006-07 4,734,000 1,664,894 7,708,000 2007-08 3,912,000 1,645,680 7,711,283 Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 2008-09 4,438,900 1,833,684 7,475,000 Olympics, Media and Sport what the compound problem 2009-10 4,695,900 1,984,500 7,125,000 gambling prevalence figure was for all forms of remote 237W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 238W

(b) Museums Museum of Science Imperial War and Industry in Museums B-M: British Museum Geffrye Museum Horniman Museum Museum Manchester

1990-91 5,050,000 40,000 120,000 1,210,000 330,000 1991-92 5,960,000 42,000 145,000 1,080,000 330,000 1992-93 6,910,000 42,000 184,000 1,150,000 340,000 1993-94 6,030,000 42,000 204,000 1,190,000 310,000 1994-95 6,240,000 46,000 186,000 1,270,000 280,000 1995-96 6,130,000 52,000 163,000 1,310,000 260,000 1996-97 6,500,000 55,000 222,000 1,300,000 340,000 1997-98 6,100,000 60,000 220,000 1,350,000 230,000 1998-99 4,488,065 85,447 210,599 1,374,103 322,977 1999-2000 4,368,430 104,049 186,377 1,372,000 301,245 2000-01 4,589,000 85,676 116,286 1,609,000 287,814 2001-02 4,813,119 82,639 130,581 1,607,929 389,582 2002-03 4,623,500 81,194 250,387 1,980,000 434,055 2003-04 4,622,169 86,529 272,220 1,966,000 381,932 2004-05 4,778,200 79,959 303,428 2,056,446 481,039 2005-06 4,485,482 79,408 282,856 1,906,510 411,547 2006-07 4,902,259 76,907 429,866 1,956,069 408,469 2007-08 6,049,000 80,352 477,894 1,999,331 819,104 2008-09 5,472,056 86,499 483,113 2,006,765 745,188 2009-10 5,650,388 93,365 621,301 2,079,264 568,993

National Maritime National Museums National Museum of Natural History Museums N-R: Museum Liverpool Science and Industry Museum Royal Armouries1

1990-91 550,000 1,290,000 2,440,000 1,600,000 n/a 1991-92 600,000 1,200,000 2,610,000 1,480,000 n/a 1992-93 540,000 1,190,000 2,580,000 1,730,000 n/a 1993-94 530,000 1,360,000 2,670,000 1,740,000 n/a 1994-95 620,000 1,360,000 2,510,000 1,640,000 n/a 1995-96 580,000 1,230,000 2,700,000 1,460,000 n/a 1996-97 400,000 790,000 2,540,000 1,800,000 394,000 1997-98 470,000 630,000 2,400,000 1,820,000 349,000 1998-99 482,038 700,000 2,158,462 1,794,870 335,000 1999-2000 874,434 791,355 2,831,087 1,761,000 218,000 2000-01 799,777 710,210 2,822,486 1,691,738 235,000 2001-02 1,004,604 823,000 3,061,148 2,196,416 337,626 2002-03 1,208,000 1,240,000 4,260,468 2,893,337 398,000 2003-04 1,365,264 1,525,520 4,270,255 3,143,935 380,000 2004-05 1,532,690 1,537,590 3,815,850 3,328,478 432,755 2005-06 1,512,191 1,608,133 3,576,679 3,281,810 394,720 2006-07 1,633,592 1,694,065 4,373,176 3,892,878 376,269 2007-08 1,782,405 2,167,626 4,384,383 3,779,420 443,202 2008-09 2,089,104 2,689,889 4,206,858 3,843,310 448,622 2009-10 2,395,493 2,273,612 4,308,258 4,388,944 466,987

Sir John Victoria and Sir John Victoria and Museums Soane’s Albert Wallace Museums Soane’s Albert Wallace S-W: Museum Museum Collection S-W: Museum Museum Collection

1990-91 60,000 1,270,000 130,000 2001-02 86,548 1,862,500 228,991 1991-92 53,000 1,400,000 170,000 2002-03 86,461 2,532,500 233,918 1992-93 50,000 1,450,000 200,000 2003-04 94,054 2,689,500 236,255 1993-94 52,000 1,580,000 150,000 2004-05 87,165 2,471,600 288,009 1994-95 58,000 1,600,000 150,000 2005-06 84,624 2,195,500 219,214 1995-96 76,000 1,530,000 160,000 2006-07 92,141 2,874,700 277,648 1996-97 84,000 1,590,000 180,000 2007-08 93,301 2,623,100 346,980 1997-98 92,000 1,450,000 180,000 1998-99 84,998 1,438,200 189,499 2008-09 96,447 2,490,700 359,165 1999-2000 96,823 1,217,000 171,867 2009-10 107,447 2,746,000 382,773 2000-01 83,827 1,342,000 255,993 1 Royal Armouries in Leeds opened March 1996 239W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 240W

Museums, Libraries and Archives Council increase the accountability, transparency and value for money of public bodies. The decision was taken on the basis that the potential for cost savings outweighed the David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, potential liabilities. Transferring museums and libraries Olympics, Media and Sport for what reasons he did not functions to Arts Council England will ensure work is meet representatives of trade unions to discuss his plans delivered in a more efficient way with a reduction in for the abolition of the Museums, Libraries and Archives back office functions. It will also bring together three Council. [38301] areas of cultural policy in a single organisation with a proven track record, giving the Arts Council greater Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State has not received a influence in discussions about the power of culture, request for a meeting with Prospect, the recognised particularly at a local level. Trade Union, to discuss the abolition of the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA). I have received David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, one request for a meeting with Prospect. Olympics, Media and Sport what equality impact Since the decision to abolish the MLA was announced assessment he undertook in advance of his decision to on 26 July 2010, the MLA has had ongoing meetings abolish the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council. and regular dialogue with Prospect, and in addition [38415] kept staff up to date to the best of its knowledge on the Government’s intentions for delivering MLA functions Mr Vaizey: A formal Equality Impact Assessment in the future. In addition, on 1 December 2010 MLA was not developed prior to the decision to reform the placed all its employees formally ‘AtRisk’ of redundancy Museums, Libraries and Archives Council. However as and started a four-month period of formal consultation the work to transfer MLA functions to Arts Council with staff and trade unions to enable it to reach final England progresses we are considering the potential decisions as to the future of its staff. impact on equality issues to ensure that there is no discrimination against any particular group. David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he made National Lottery: Operating Costs of options other than abolition when considering the future of the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council. Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, [38302] Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has made of the effect of reducing his Department’s funding Mr Vaizey: The role of the Museums, Libraries and for running costs of lottery funding distributors on Archives Council (MLA) has been reviewed on a number (a) the number of applications for lottery funding and of occasions in the past including the MLA Peer Review (b) the success of such applications. [38660] of 2004 and the Renaissance Review in 2009. The decision to abolish the MLA was made with reference John Penrose: None, because the administrative costs to these previous reviews and within the context of the of distributing lottery funding are funded from the Government review of public bodies which aims to lottery, rather than from departmental expenditure. increase the accountability, transparency and value for However, the relevant distributors were consulted both money of public bodies. directly and through the Lottery Forum about our plans to reduce these costs. Reducing administrative David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, costs should release more money for grants, and I am Olympics, Media and Sport which (a) individuals and not expecting distributors to report any significant impact (b) organisations he consulted prior to proposing abolition on applications. of the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council. [38365] Telecommunications: Visual Impairment

Mr Vaizey: No formal consultation took place prior Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, to the decision to abolish of the Museums, Libraries Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has assessed the and Archives Council (MLA). Ministers at the Department equivalence with telecommunications provision for hearing for Culture, Media and Sport regularly meet representatives people of the provision of text relay services for deaf from a wide range of cultural organisations and within people. [39290] the context of these meetings the role and structure of organisations in the cultural sector, including the MLA, has been discussed on a number of occasions. Mr Vaizey: DCMS is in the process of implementing revisions to the electronic communication framework. These require member states to ensure that access to, David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, and affordability of, electronic communications services Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment of (a) for disabled end-users is equivalent to the level enjoyed financial liabilities and (b) potential cost savings he by other end-users. Implementation of new article 23a made before taking his decision to abolish the Museums, in the USD will empower Ofcom to specify, where Libraries and Archives Council. [38414] appropriate, requirements to ensure that disabled end-users: (a) have access to electronic communications services equivalent Mr Vaizey: The decision to abolish the Museums, to that enjoyed by the majority of end-users; and Libraries and Archives Council was taken as part of the (b) benefit from the choice of undertakings and services available Government’s review of public bodies which aims to to the majority of end-users. 241W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 242W

Equivalence is a broad concept and not tied to any HMCS has a portfolio of major build projects, which particular service. However, Ofcom is currently undertaking are at various stages of their development. These are a review of relay service provision for hearing—and being assessed as part of Government investment and speech-impaired users of electronic communications. A governance procedures and considered against the outcome consultation document will be published in the spring of the recent spending review. We anticipate the project and a research report which will help inform the review being able to be progressed towards the end of the was published on 4 February and can be read at spending review period and will include Sunderland in http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/ the bid to HM Treasury for the following spending telecoms-research/ofcom-relay-services/ review in order to complete the construction phase. DCMS and Ofcom are also currently reviewing the responses received to the recent public consultation on Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority proposals for implementing the revised framework. Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Theatres: Repairs and Maintenance Justice what plans his Department has for the future of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority. [38860] Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what central Mr Djanogly: The recent review of arm’s length bodies Government grants are available to owners of theatres determined that the Criminal Injuries Compensation for (a) maintenance and (b) other purposes. [39054] Authority should be retained. The Secretary of State for Justice will continue to support the Criminal Injuries Mr Vaizey: This Department does not directly award Compensation Authority in its valuable work in grants to theatres. Its arms length body Arts Council compensating the blameless victims of violent crime. England provides funding to a number of theatre organisations, including capital grants which can be Departmental Information Officers used for maintenance and other purposes. Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Trade Unions how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, communications strategy officers and (e) other positions Olympics, Media and Sport what requests he has received with a communications remit were employed by (i) his from trade unions representing members in his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- Department’s non-departmental public bodies for meetings departmental public body sponsored by his Department to discuss the abolition of such bodies. [38300] on the most recent date for which figures are available. [38963] Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, has not received any requests for Mr Djanogly: The figures are set out in the following meetings from trade unions representing members of table and represent communication posts as at 1 February the Department’s non-departmental public bodies to 2011. Roles which encompass more than one discuss their abolition. communications discipline have been placed in the most I have received one request for a meeting with Prospect, suitable category. The Ministry of Justice Press Office the recognised Trade Union, to discuss the abolition of also handles media relations for the National Offender the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA). Management Service (NOMS). The Ministry of Justice is one of the largest Departments in Government and its work touches everyone in the UK. JUSTICE Communications support access to essential public information about the services it provides. Communication Courts: Sunderland also provides the relevant guidance and support so that citizens can use our services effectively. It is also right Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for that the public, partners and providers know and Justice pursuant to the answer of 21 July 2010, Official understand the work of the MOJ and its agencies and Report, column 322W, on courts: Sunderland, what have the opportunity to be consulted on any proposed progress has been made on the proposed rebuilding of changes. Communications in all its forms is an important court premises in Sunderland; and if he will make a element of this. statement. [38864] Staffing levels reflect the size and complexity of the Department and its public bodies and the need to Mr Djanogly: HMCS remains committed to the delivery communicate effectively on a wide range of issues and of a new Justice Centre in Sunderland. It has acquired services. The MOJ Press Office, which plays an important the Farringdon Row site from Sunderland City Council role in making sure media outlets have factually correct and completed the design to Royal Institute of British information, needs to meet the demands of a 24/7 Architects (RIBA) Stage D. media. 243W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 244W

Other positions Internal External with a Communications Communications Communications communications Press officers officers officers strategy officers remit

Department and its agencies Ministry of Justice 34 11 4 5 30 National Offender Management 019020 Service Her Majesty’s Courts Service 25200 Tribunals Service 03007 Office of the Public Guardian 0 2 0 1.5 1.5

Non-departmental public bodies Legal Services Commission 33605 Victims’ Commissioner 00010 Criminal Injuries Compensation 00002 Authority Criminal Cases Review Commission 00001 Court Funds Office 00001 Legal Services Board 00001 Information Commissioner 2 0.6 7.2 0.5 0 Office for Legal Complaints 01111 Judicial Communications Office 35000 Judicial Appointments Commission 0 0.5 0.5 0 3 Youth Justice Board 3.8 — — — 7 Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of 10000 Prisons and Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Probation PrisonsandProbationOmbudsman00001 Independent Monitoring Boards 00002 Secretariat

Totals 48.8 50.1 20.7 11 62.5

Legal Aid: Immigration and Asylum Mr Djanogly: Legal aid expenditure in immigration and asylum is shown in the table. It is not possible to disaggregate asylum spending from immigration for Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice licensed work in cases funded under a legal aid certificate. how much money from the public purse has been These figures include disbursements from which providers provided (a) directly and (b) indirectly through third can pay third parties such as interpreters and medical parties to support legal cases related to (i) immigration experts. However, expenditure on disbursements is not and (ii) asylum issues in each of the last five years; and centrally recorded in such a way as to enable the amounts how much has been given to each third party in each spent on third party services to be identified from other such year. [38751] costs such as travel costs.

£ million 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Controlled work Asylum 176 140 76 51 49 52 56 Immigration (nationality) 13 22 19 25 28 28 26 Indeterminate 5 1033432 Controlled work total 194 172 98 73 80 82 83

Licensed work 6557667

Total 200 177 103 80 86 88 90

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the purpose of representing their clients there were in how many legal practitioners and other representatives each of the last five years. [38752] of (a) immigrants and (b) asylum seekers received legal aid and other monies from the public purse for 245W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 246W

Mr Djanogly: Legal aid funding in civil cases in He is working closely with the Magna Carta Trust to England and Wales is a matter for the Legal Services increase awareness of the anniversary both in the UK Commission (LSC), which is responsible for administering and overseas in a series of high profile public and media the legal aid scheme. events which will include celebrations in the five Charter The following table details the number of legal aid Towns—Canterbury, Runnymede, London, St Albans, providers (by office) paid for Civil Representation and and Bury St Edmunds—and at other historic venues Legal Help work for immigration and asylum cases in throughout the UK in the lead up to the anniversary in each of the last five years. June 2015. I understand that a major exhibition is planned for 2006-07 2006-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 the British Library and, abroad, others are planned at the National Archive in Washington, D.C., and in Canberra, Immigration 321 271 263 245 234 Asylum—Legal Australia. Help Pleural Plaques: Compensation Immigration 313 275 279 255 242 Other—Legal Help Immigration and 366 294 260 285 237 Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Asylum—Civil Justice pursuant to his answer of 19 January 2011, Representation Official Report, column 811W, on pleural plaques: compensation, how many of the 6,119 applications are Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice from individuals living in Sunderland. [38863] which 20 organisations or persons have received the Mr Djanogly: As of 4 February a total of 6,543 largest sums of money from the public purse for the applications have been received. Of these, 150 are from provision of legal services in respect of (a) immigration individuals applying with a Sunderland postcode. and (b) asylum cases in each of the last five years. [38753]

Mr Djanogly: It is not possible to provide the information COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT in the time available. I will write to the hon. Member and place a copy in the House of Commons Library. Audit Commission: Publications

Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities what representations his Department has received on and Local Government if he will place in the Library a the withdrawal of legal aid in relation to immigration copy of the Audit Commission’s visual identity guidelines matters for stateless people. [38757] produced with the assistance of HSAG Design. [36876]

Mr Djanogly: The Government are currently consulting Robert Neill: A copy of the Audit Commission’s on all its legal aid proposals, including the removal of visual identity guidelines, produced with the assistance non-detention immigration cases from the scope of of HSAG Design, has been placed in the Library of the legal aid. We have received responses from immigration House. and asylum representative bodies and members of the Council Housing public on the immigration proposals, but none of those received as of 4 February have raised the specific issue Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for of stateless people. The consultation will close on 14 Communities and Local Government what discussions February. he has had with the Homes and Communities Agency on the incorporation of quality standards in decisions Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice relating to the funding and development of (a) social what plans he has for the availability of legal aid to rented and (b) other affordable housing developments applicants for asylum. [38831] funded by the agency; and if he will make a statement. [39147] Mr Djanogly: The Government are currently consulting on proposals to reform legal aid. We propose to continue Andrew Stunell: The Homes and Communities Agency to provide publicly funded legal assistance in asylum inherited from its predecessor bodies a variety of quality cases (except asylum support cases). The consultation and design standards required when supporting will close on 14 February. developments of social and affordable housing. The Agency consulted on proposals for a single new set of Magna Carta: Anniversaries standards last year, which would have increased some requirements. Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice We are committed to reducing the burden of regulation what plans he has to commemorate the 800th anniversary on builders and developers, and have also called on the of the sealing of Magna Carta in 2015. [38612] industry to work with Government on developing new proposals for a simplified system, through a local standards Mr Djanogly: My noble friend Lord McNally has framework. As part of this exercise we have decided ministerial responsibility for the Government’s participation that the Homes and Community Agency should not in the five-year programme of celebrations for the 800th proceed with new enhanced standards, instead retaining anniversary, launched at an internationally televised their existing ones. As a general guide, this has been event at Runnymede on 12 November 2010. estimated to save on average some £8,000 per unit. 247W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 248W

Departmental Information Officers Certified librarians Chartered librarians Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 0 7 Communities and Local Government how many (a) press 2009-10 0 5 officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external 2010-11 0 5 communications officers, (d) communications strategy officers and (e) other positions with a communications Fire Commissioners remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for body sponsored by his Department on the most recent Communities and Local Government whether he plans date for which figures are available. [38964] to introduce directly-elected fire commissioners; and if he will make a statement. [39570] Robert Neill: All departmental staff employed in communications roles are members of the Department’s Robert Neill: Ministers have not considered introducing Communication Directorate, which is comprised directly-elected fire commissioners and currently there of External Communications Division and Corporate are no plans to do so. Communications Division, managed by the Director of Communication. Housing: Construction External Communications currently employs 41 communications officers working on a combination of Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for press, marketing, strategic planning and digital/social Communities and Local Government what mechanism media. This equates to 39.5 full-time equivalent posts, he has put in place to ensure that the New Homes as some members of staff are employed part-time. Bonus reflects the strategic priority in Planning Policy Corporate Communications currently employs 25 Statement 3, Housing, for brownfield development before communications officers working on internal greenfield. [38932] communication, web management, print/publishing and Info4Local. This equates to 23.6 full-time equivalent Grant Shapps: The New Homes Bonus is a powerful, posts. simple, transparent and permanent incentive for local A further four communications officers within authorities and communities to increase their aspirations Communication Directorate work directly with policy for housing growth. The final scheme design of the New directorates. Homes Bonus will be published shortly. No new members of staff have joined the The New Homes Bonus will sit alongside the Communication Directorate since March 2010 and a Government’s current national planning for housing recruitment freeze remains in force. The Communication policies as set out in Planning Policy Statement 3: Directorate expects to reduce the staff headcount by Housing (PPS3). PPS3 focuses on developing brownfield approximately 30% through the Department’s restructuring land for housing as a priority, particularly vacant and exercise by April 2012. derelict sites and buildings, as well as surplus public The Department does not maintain a central record sector land where possible. of communications posts at its agencies or non- We announced in December the start of work to create departmental public bodies. a simple and consolidated national planning policy framework covering all forms of development, as promised Departmental Libraries in the coalition agreement. This will include planning for housing policy. Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities The New Homes Bonus does not change planning and Local Government how many (a) certified and (b) policy. However, we do believe it will promote more chartered librarians his Department and its predecessors sustainable, locally-led development than the failed and have employed in each year since 2000. [37662] unpopular regime of regional strategies. The consultation also proposes that the bonus rewards Robert Neill: The numbers of certified librarians getting long-term empty homes back into productive (those holding the Chartered Institute of Library and use. Information Professionals (CILIP) para-professional award), and chartered librarians (those holding CILIP’s Local Government professional qualification) employed by the Department since 2000 are as follows: Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what statutory Certified librarians Chartered librarians duties are required of local authorities. [39040] 2000-01 0 9 2001-02 0 10 Greg Clark: Historically central Government have 2002-03 0 9 been prescriptive about how councils should serve their 2003-04 0 10 communities and virtually every function councils undertake 2004-05 0 11 has a legal duty attached to it, set out in numerous 2005-06 0 9 Acts of Parliament. The Government are committed to 2006-07 0 9 reducing centrally imposed barriers and burdens on local authorities such as legislation, guidance and other 2007-08 0 8 forms of prescription. 249W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 250W

Local Government : Manpower Robert Neill [holding answer 7 February 2011]: Parliament has given local planning authorities the Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities primary responsibility for taking whatever enforcement and Local Government how many people were employed action may be necessary, in the public interest, in their by local government in the first quarter of (a) 1997 and administrative area. We consider that this should remain (b) 2010. [36888] so. The Government take breaches of planning control Robert Neill: The Department does not hold records very seriously, and the Localism Bill includes a number of the number of people employed by local authorities. of measures aimed at strengthening local planning The Office for National Statistics publishes local authorities’ powers to take enforcement action. government employment statistics for the United Kingdom for the second quarter of each year between 1991 and Regional Planning and Development 1999 and quarterly thereafter. The number of people employed by local government in the second quarter of Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for 1997 was 2,728,000, and the number employed in the Communities and Local Government what plans he has second quarter of 2010 was 2,907,000. It should be to provide powers for local authorities to ensure that housing noted that these figures include local authorities under development and related infrastructure development the devolved Administrations. proceed together. [39242] Park Homes: Ownership Robert Neill: Local planning authorities already have a range of tools available to them to ensure that the Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for infrastructure needed to support development is properly Communities and Local Government (1) what proposals planned for and provided. These will be strengthened he has received in respect of the introduction of a fit by the new Duty to Cooperate in the Localism Bill. and proper person test for owners of park home units; [38598] Duty to Cooperate (2) what recent representation he has received on the The Duty to Cooperate requires local planning introduction of a fit and proper person test for owners authorities and public bodies to engage constructively, of park home units. [38599] actively and on an ongoing basis in the planning process. The duty will apply to the preparation of local plans Grant Shapps: I have received a number of letters and other activities that support development planning. from park home residents, some through their Members This might include joint policies and strategies on strategic of Parliament, making representations and proposals infrastructure to support economic growth and new for the introduction of a fit and proper test for owners housing. of park home sites. Development Plans Planning Inspectorate National planning policy expects development plans prepared by local authorities to be supported by evidence of what physical, social and green infrastructure is Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for needed to support the amount of development proposed Communities and Local Government what plans he has for the area, taking account of its type and distribution. to streamline the working of the Planning Inspectorate. [39241] Planning Conditions and Section 106 Agreements In granting planning permission for any new Robert Neill: The Planning Inspectorate is currently development, local authorities can impose planning reviewing its systems and staffing levels in response to conditions and/or use Section 106 Agreements to ensure the spending review, to draw out efficiencies from the that new or improved infrastructure of the right standard proposed abolition of the Infrastructure Planning is provided at the right time. Commission and integration of major infrastructure Planning authorities can use conditions which prohibit casework and to provide business-as-usual efficiency the commencement or occupation of development until savings. Enhanced working practices are at the forefront certain specified actions have been completed, for example of this change, to provide value for money services provision of infrastructure such as a new bus stop or while retaining high levels of customer satisfaction and school. service. Similarly the way in which the Planning Inspectorate delivers its services is evolving and responding to the Community Infrastructure Levy need to meet the Government’s localism agenda. Community Infrastructure Levy also enables local planning authorities to seek developer contributions. Quarrying: Stoke on Trent Unlike planning conditions and Section 106 agreements, it can be used to fund infrastructure needs of the wider Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for area, beyond the development site itself. The levy provides Communities and Local Government if he will direct a predictable income that offers the certainty local Stoke-on-Trent unitary authority to enforce the ruling authorities need to plan ahead to ensure infrastructure by the then Secretary of State for the Environment on can be delivered at the right time, for example, by 27 October 1993 (ref APP/C/91/N3400/612522 M23/1/04) forward funding a necessary project. that land at Copshurst Quarry, Lightwood, Stoke-on-Trent The Government are reforming the Community should not be worked for marl extraction from that date Infrastructure Levy to ensure it is also a flexible system or any future date. [38841] which allows authorities to accept payment in the form 251W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 252W of land whenever it is required, for example, to ensure DEFENCE that land for infrastructure can be secured at the right time. Chinook Helicopters

Sheltered Housing Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will place in the Library a copy of the Boeing full hazard analysis of the flying controls and associated Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities systems that was carried out with reference to paragraph and Local Government (1) what his Department’s policy 9 of the Ministry of Defence Military Aircraft Accident is on the inclusion in local plans of the need for specialist Summary 2/89-Aircraft Accident to Royal Air Force housing for older people; [39019] Chinook HC1 ZA721. [38549] (2) what his Department’s policy is on the promotion of private sector provision of specialist housing for Nick Harvey: I will write to the hon. Member. Time is older people; and if he will make a statement. [39021] required to retrieve information on the 1987 accident from archive. Andrew Stunell: National Planning Policy Statement 3: Housing states that Local Planning Authorities should, European Defence Agency based upon findings of the Strategic Housing Market Assessment and other local evidence, set out in their Mr Kennedy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence local development documents the likely profile of household (1) on which occasions his Department has used the types requiring market housing. The housing requirements services of the European Defence Agency for procurement of older people can be included in these assessments. purposes for each (a) year and (b) type of equipment Based on the housing requirements identified, Local procured since the establishment of the Agency; and if Planning Authorities should develop policies and he will make a statement; [37859] implementation strategies to ensure that sufficient, suitable (2) what estimate his Department has made of the land is available to achieve their housing objectives. level of savings which accrued to its budget through Subsequently, developers should bring forward proposals using the services of the European Defence Agency for for market housing which reflect demand and the profile procurement purposes in each year since that Agency of households requiring market housing in order to became operational; and if he will make a statement; sustain mixed communities. [37896] (3) what plans his Department has to use the services We announced in December the start of work to of the European Defence Agency for procurement create a simple and consolidated National Planning purposes to December 2011; what level of savings he Policy Framework covering all forms of development, expects to accrue to his Department in respect of each as promised in the coalition agreement. This will include equipment type as a result; and if he will make a policy on planning for housing. statement. [37897]

Sheltered Housing: Private Sector Nick Harvey: The mission of the European Defence Agency (EDA) is to support the European Council and Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities the member states in their effort to improve the EU’s and Local Government whether the promotion of private defence capabilities in the field of crisis management sector provision of specialist housing for older people is and to sustain the Common Security and Defence Policy part of the Government’s housing strategy. [39018] (CSDP). As the EDA is not a procurement agency, it does not Andrew Stunell: We are putting in place a framework undertake a procurement function on behalf of its that will promote greater investment in housing, including participating member states. Therefore, we have not both general needs housing and specialised provision, used and have no plans to use it for procurement such as housing for older people. This will rebalance purposes, nor have we estimated savings accrued to the power from central Government to local authorities Ministry of Defence’s budget. and local people so that they can shape development in their areas. It will replace top down targets with fiscal Nuclear Weapons incentives for local authorities to promote development, and it will support private sector growth by reducing Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for regulation on house-builders. Defence (1) what assessment he has made of the conclusions of the 2008 and 2009 Assurance Reports from the Supported Housing: Older People Defence Nuclear Environment and Safety Board on safety in the defence and nuclear programmes; and whether he plans to publish the 2010 report of the Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Board; [39087] and Local Government what research his Department (2) whether hon. Members will be given access to the is undertaking into the housing needs of elderly people Defence Nuclear Environment and Safety Board’s 2010 in need of specialist housing. [39022] Assurance Report. [39088]

Andrew Stunell: My Department is not currently Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) undertaking any research into the needs of elderly principal safety body, the Defence Environmental and people in need of specialist housing. Safety Board, has assessed both the 2008 and 2009 253W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 254W reports. It concluded that the Defence nuclear programmes The SDSR also announced that we would not be are being conducted safely and an appropriate programme bringing nine Nimrod MRA4s into service. of work is in hand to deliver continuous safety improvement The final number of military assets affected by the against the issues raised. SDSR remains subject to the completion of more detailed The 2010 report is currently being reviewed to identify work during the Ministry of Defence’s annual planning whether any information needs to be withheld. It will round. This will include, for example, the number of then be published on the MOD website at the following helicopters, training aircraft, and minor and auxiliary address: vessels required to support the new force structure. http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/MicroSite/DES/ OurPublications/HealthandSafety/ War Crimes: Organs DefenceNuclearEnvironmentAndSafetyBoardAssuranceReports.htm Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for O’Brien and Associates Defence whether his Department has offered assistance to the European Union Rule of Law Mission in Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Kosovo on issues relating to (a) war crimes and (b) Defence which Minister approved his Department’s organ trafficking in the last five years. [39086] contract with O’Brien and Associates of Washington. [38925] Nick Harvey: The UK supports the investigations Nick Harvey: There was no requirement for Ministers into war crimes and organ trafficking by the EU Rule of to approve the Ministry of Defence’s contract with Law Mission as part of its wider mandate. Our active O’Brien and Associates, which fell within the approval support includes a contribution to EU funding of the authority of the British Defence staff in Washington. mission and the provision of a number of secondees, The contract expired in December 2010. including the Deputy Head of Mission. Russia: Submarines Weapons

Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent reports he has received of Russian Defence what (a) weapons and (b) rounds of ammunition submarines operating in the North Atlantic; and if he for which (i) his Department has and (ii) the armed will make a statement. [38019] forces have responsibility have gone missing since June 2009. [37266] Dr Fox [holding answer 3 February 2011]: Britain’s sea approaches are continuously monitored for any Nick Harvey: The following table provides details of threat to our national security and interests. I am the number of Ministry of Defence owned weapons withholding further information as its disclosure would, reported as lost/stolen from June 2009 to date, showing, or would be likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness as appropriate, where recovery has been effected. These or security of our armed forces. figures include reported losses in-theatre. Strategic Defence and Security Review No comprehensive figures are available in respect of ammunition losses.

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 2 Defence how many (a) aircraft and (b) naval vessels 2009 2010 2011 will be retired as a result of decisions taken in the Lost/ Lost/ Lost/ Stolen Recovered Stolen Recovered Stolen Recovered Strategic Defence and Security Review. [37267] Pistol 14 12 9 .0 0 0 Nick Harvey: As a result of decisions announced Rifle 3 2 4 0 0 0 when the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) Machine 00361 5 0 0 was published and since, the following aircraft and Gun naval vessels will be withdrawn from service: Shotgun 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 June to December. Number 2 To date. Anticipated date of being 3 This figure includes 59 Minimi machine guns, the loss of which is the Asset withdrawal withdrawn subject of a Royal Military Police investigation. Harrier Withdrawn December 62 2010 Tornado GR4 By 2021 137 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE TriStar By 2013 9 British Nationals Abroad: Homicide VC-10 By 2013 13 C-130J Hercules By 2022 24 Sentinel R1 To be confirmed 5 Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for HMS Ark Royal Withdrawn December 1 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects 2010 to publish the protocol developed by his Department HMS Illustrious 2014 1 and the Victim Support National Homicide Service. Type 22 Frigates 2011 4 [39150] RFA Largs Bay 2011 1 RFA Bayleaf 2011 1 Mr Jeremy Browne: We have no current plans to RFA Fort George 2011 1 publish the agreement between Victim Support National Homicide Service and our Consular Directorate. However, 255W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 256W

I have passed a copy to the non-governmental organisation 2009-10 ‘Support After Murder and Manslaughter’ (SAMM) Abroad, and am arranging for a copy to be placed in Corporate communications 18 the Library of the House of Commons. Marketing 0 This agreement ensures that consular staff in the Media/press 30 Foreign and Commonwealth Office notify Victim Support Senior management 1 National Homicide Service of the murder of a British Support staff 7 national abroad if the bereaved family are resident in England or Wales. Consular staff will then advise the The British Council’s centralised communications family of the service provided by Victim Support and, function was staffed as follows in 2009-10. There are with the family’s consent, a Victim Support caseworker also staff overseas with a communications remit, but will contact them to arrange a meeting. details of these are not available except at disproportionate cost. Commonwealth: Sexuality Discipline Total Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has had discussions Internal communications 5 with his Commonwealth counterparts on discrimination Digital/social media 3 against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people; Strategic communications 0 and if he will make a statement. [39191] Corporate communications 2 Marketing 4 Mr Jeremy Browne: The UK opposes discrimination Media/press 6 against Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Senior management 1 people. We believe that human rights are universal and Support staff 0 should apply equally to all people, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.Government Ministers Egypt: Museums and Galleries and officials raise the rights of LGBT people during meetings with Commonwealth counterparts. As previously mentioned in my response to my hon. Friend on 1 February Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 2011, Official Report, column 708W, I recently visited and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received Jamaica, Barbados, and Trinidad and Tobago, and of the looting of the Egyptian Museum, Cairo on raised LGBT equality during discussions with government 28 January 2011; what recent discussions he has had officials and non-government organisations. with the Government of Egypt about protecting the contents of the Egyptian Museum; and if he will make In July 2010, the Prime Minister launched a programme a statement. [38037] of work which will ensure the UK continues to push towards LGBT equality both at home and abroad. This includes a commitment to proactively question those Alistair Burt: I was troubled by these reports. Egypt Commonwealth countries which retain homophobic has a unique history and the National Museum is a legislation and to push for unequivocal support for repository of priceless and irreplaceable antiquities. LGBT rights internationally. We have not raised the protection of the contents of the Egyptian Museum with the Egyptian Government, Departmental Information Officers but understand that the army was asked to take responsibility for the protection of public properties, Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign including museums, on 28 January 2011. and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) press officers, We are gravely concerned by the ongoing political (b) internal communications officers, (c) external unrest in Egypt and utterly condemn the violence that is communications officers, (d) communications strategy taking place in Cairo. officers and (e) other positions with a communications remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public Embassies: London Congestion Charge body sponsored by his Department on the most recent date for which figures are available. [38959] Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s has received from Transport for London on progress communications directorate was staffed as follows during towards recovering outstanding London congestion 2009-10. Headcount has reduced by about 18% since charge payments from diplomatic missions. [39246] the beginning of this financial year and communications is under review. There are also embedded communications Mr Bellingham: The Foreign and Commonwealth staff within Directorates and staff overseas with a (FCO) receives some information from Transport for communications remit, but details of these are not London (TfL) about the Congestion Charge and diplomatic available except at disproportionate cost. missions. Acting on statistics provided by TfL, in March 2010 the FCO wrote individually to those diplomatic 2009-10 missions and international organisations which do not Internal communications 8 pay the Congestion Charge advising them to pay. The Digital/social media 21 FCO has now received updated statistics from TfL and Strategic communications 31 will shortly be writing to those missions which still have outstanding Congestion Charge debts. 257W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 258W

Every June, the FCO publishes a written ministerial Iran: Sanctions statement listing all diplomatic missions in the UK which have outstanding Congestion Charge debts of Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign £100,000 or more. This list is published on behalf of TfL. and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has We remain in contact with TfL on the question of made of the effectiveness of EU sanctions on Iran payment of the Congestion Charge by diplomatic missions. since December 2010; and if he will make a statement. [R] [38042] Gilad Shalit Alistair Burt: I refer my hon. Friend to my response David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Kemptown and Commonwealth Affairs what recent progress he (Simon Kirby) on 31 January 2011, Official Report, has made in efforts to (a) encourage the release of and column 498W. (b) allow Red Cross access to Corporal Gilad Shalit. [39343] Iran: Sexuality Alistair Burt: I refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend Lord Howell of Guildford’s response Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign of 25 January 2011, Official Report, House of Lords, and Commonwealth Affairs (1) whether his Department column WA139. has made any recent representations to the Iranian government on its approach to lesbian, gay, bisexual Hong Kong: Passports and transgender people; [39199] (2) what representations he has received on the treatment Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Iran; Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many passport and if he will make a statement. [39200] applications have been received by the regional passport processing centre in Hong Kong in the last six months; Alistair Burt: The UK opposes all discrimination and what the average time between application and against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in issue was. [38796] all circumstances. We believe human rights are universal and apply equally to all people, regardless of their Mr Jeremy Browne: The regional passport processing sexual orientation or gender identity. We are concerned centre in Hong Kong received 13,058 applications between by the harsh punishments for homosexual activity in 1 August 2010 and 31 January 2011. We do not record Iran. My officials expressed concerns about this issue the average time between application and issue. However, and about the specific cases of two individuals, alleged 95% of these applications were processed and dispatched to have been sentenced to death for homosexual activity, back to the customer within 10 working days of the to the Iranian embassy in London on 19 January 2011, application’s arrival at the passport centre. Our advertised after we received reports of the cases. time from receipt of applications to delivery to the customer is four weeks for renewals and six weeks for Middle East: Peace Negotiations first time applications. Iran: Guided Weapons David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he has made of steps taken by (a) Algeria, (b) Morocco, Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign (c) Tunisia and (d) Lebanon in implementing the and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment his requirements to promote trade and co-operation with Department has made of the report of the UN Panel of other countries in the region, including Israel, in their Experts to the 1718 Sanctions Committee on co-operation association agreements with the EU. [39354] between Iran and North Korea in the development of ballistic missiles. [38978] Alistair Burt: While we have not held discussions with EU counterparts specifically on using the Association Alistair Burt: We share the assessment of the UN Agreement to encourage these countries to recognise Panel of Experts to the 1718 Sanctions Committee who Israel, regional integration and co-operation are important published a report in November 2010 indicating that parts of European Union Association Agreements and Iran and the Democratic People Republic of Korea the wider Neighbourhood policy. The External Action (DPRK) were co-operating in the development of ballistic Service and European Commission undertake assessments missiles. The DPRK’s network of proliferation activities, of progress against association agreements. This includes including to countries such as Iran, is a threat to regional information on regional co-operation. and international security. The latest assessments by country are at: We strongly support the tough sanctions imposed by UN Security Council Resolutions 1718 and 1874, which http://eeas.europa.eu/countries/index_en.htm are designed to curb the range of weapons of mass The EU-Lebanon Action Plan, which implements destruction (WMD) and conventional arms related the Association Agreement, includes an objective that proliferation activities undertaken by the DPRK. UN furthers development of co-operation between the EU Security Council Resolution 1929 also requires countries and Lebanon in the context of the Middle East Peace to take steps to ensure that shipments of weapons and Process, which is pursued on the ground and in Brussels. proliferation sensitive goods on route to Iran are stopped. Regarding Israel specifically, our position is set out in We continue to work closely with international partners the Foreign Affairs Council conclusions of December to ensure that these measures are robustly implemented. 2010, which noted: 259W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 260W

“The EU recalls that peace in the Middle East should be Commission, seeking a speedy resolution of cases relating comprehensive and reiterates the importance of negotiations on to detainees and information on their whereabouts, can the Israel-Syria and Israel-Lebanon tracks. Peace should lead to be acted on promptly. the full integration of Israel in its regional environment, along the lines set out in the Arab Peace Initiative”.

Pakistan: Overseas Aid Sudan: Referendums

Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assistance his Department and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions plans to provide to the government of Pakistan in order he has had with his Sudanese counterpart on the to strengthen institutions to (a) reduce levels of corruption implementation of the result on the referendum on and (b) uphold human rights. [39195] Southern Sudan. [38990]

Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Mr Bellingham: My right hon. Friend the Foreign (FCO) works closely with partners across Government Secretary spoke to Sudanese Vice President Taha on to support the Government of Pakistan in strengthening 13 January 2011. My right hon. Friend the Foreign democratic institutions and promoting good governance. Secretary welcomed the constructive statements made The Department for International Development has a by the National Congress Party regarding the likely £665 million four-year development assistance programme, outcome of the referendum. We continue to urge both which includes support for economic growth and parties to resolve the remaining Comprehensive Peace governance. Funding streams from the interdepartmental Agreement issues including citizenship rights, borders Conflict Pool (£901,000 for Pakistan internal projects) and Abyei. and the Bilateral Programme Fund (£100,000) are also used to focus on projects designed to provide assistance to the Government of Pakistan in addressing corruption Turks and Caicos Islands: Finance and upholding human rights. The FCO engages with the Government of Pakistan on the issues of corruption Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and human rights both bilaterally and with our partners Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much funding in the European Union. his Department has contributed to the Turks and Caicos Special Investigation and Prosecution Team since its Recruitment creation. [38857]

Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr Bellingham: The Foreign and Commonwealth and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on Office (FCO) covered the initial costs of the Turks and recruitment to ambassadorial posts through open Caicos Special Investigation and Prosecution Team (SIPT). competition. [36392] These were approximately £660,000 in the financial year ending March 2010. Alistair Burt: Ambassadorial posts in senior management grades are appointed through competition open to all Since then, the FCO has continued to pay the Government Departments. Posts in other grades are accommodation costs for the SIPT office in London. open to members of the Diplomatic Service. Recruitment From April 2010 to end of January 2011, the cost was through external competition may be considered in approximately £104,000. exceptional cases where external candidates can offer We are considering whether we can provide further essential skills not available within the civil service. support.

Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict United Nations: Finance Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign has received on the treatment of alleged ex-combatants and Commonwealth Affairs what mechanisms are in in Sri Lanka by the police and the military. [39084] place to maintain oversight of UK financial contributions to the UN for the purposes of ensuring good governance. Alistair Burt: The Sri Lankan Foreign Minister informed [39094] our Acting High Commissioner on 1 February 2011 that 4,666 of the original 11,696 former Liberation Mr Bellingham: The Government closely scrutinise Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) fighters remained in UN activity and expenditure and requests for funding. detention. He stated that the rest have been released and This is done in a number of ways, including through re-integrated into their communities and all former active participation by the UK in the Fifth Committee child fighters have been released. We continue to seek (Budget/Administration) of the UN General Assembly. regular updates on the treatment of former fighters Budget issues are also examined by the UN Advisory from the Commissioner General of Rehabilitation. Committee for Administrative and Budgetary Questions. We regularly raise our concerns about the lack of This is made up of independent experts, currently including humanitarian access and the continued lack of clarity one expert from the UK. Other bodies play a vital over their legal status with the Sri Lankan Government. oversight role, particularly the UN Office of Internal We hope that the interim recommendations of the Sri Oversight Services and the UN Board of Auditors, on Lankan Government’s Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation which the UK National Audit Office currently sits. 261W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 262W

United Nations: Recruitment HEALTH

Departmental Information Officers Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what mechanisms are in place to maintain oversight of recruitment of international Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Health staff to UN posts for the purposes of ensuring fair and how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications transparent process. [39093] officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) communications strategy officers and (e) other positions with a communications remit were employed by (i) his Mr Bellingham: The UK is committed to ensuring Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- recruitment to UN posts is based on the highest standards departmental public body sponsored by his Department of efficiency, competence and integrity, as set out in the on the most recent date for which figures are available. Charter of the UN, and reiterated by the General [38950] Assembly, most recently in December 2010 in Resolution A/RES/65/247. The UN’s Office of Internal Oversight Mr Simon Burns: The data we hold on the type of Services investigates and reports regularly on compliance role performed by communications staff does not with resolutions, regulations, rules and policies, including correspond exactly with the descriptions the hon. Member on recruitment issues. requested. However, information on the disciplines of all of the communications staff in the Department is contained in the following tables. Table one provides Zimbabwe: Politics and Government figures for staff working in the Communications Directorate, table two provides figures for staff working elsewhere in the Department. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign The source of the data in table 1 and 2 is the Cabinet and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has Office commission 2009-10 to meet the needs of the made of progress on political reform in Zimbabwe. Treasury’s Operational Efficiency programme (OEP) [38985] Corporate Functions Benchmarking programme, for 2009-10. Mr Bellingham: There has been considerable economic These figures were supplied in April 2010. Figures for progress in Zimbabwe since the formation of the Inclusive the Communications Directorate have been updated as Government in 2008. But there has not yet been political these were readily available and are in table one. Figures reform on anything like the same scale. It is clear that in table 2 are as of April 2010. there is still a long way to go before the country can be Table 3—the Department has nine executive non- considered stable and democratic. The constitutional departmental public bodies (NDPB) and one executive reform process, which has itself been marred by some agency. We have included data only for the NDPBs and apparent intimidation, and the setting up of Media, Executive Agency that currently exist. Electoral and Human Rights commissions are encouraging The Department also grants funds to a wide range of signs. But a number of key provisions of the Global voluntary and charitable organisations to provide services Political Agreement remain unimplemented. The general relating to health and healthy living. It is not possible to conditions necessary for free and fair elections have yet provide this data without incurring disproportionate to be established. Moreover, President Mugabe continues cost. to make unilateral appointments to important offices. Table 1: Central communications staff, accounts for all staff working There has been a considerable reduction in the severity in the Communications Directorate. Data from February 2011 and frequency of human rights abuses since the formation Discipline Total of the Inclusive Government. However the recent constitutional reform process has shown that State actors 1. Internal communications including; 6.0 still have a capacity for violence and intimidation and (a) Change management — we remain concerned about ongoing abuses, particularly (b) Internal channel management — recent examples of politically-motivated violence apparently (c) Employee engagement — tied to potential elections. We call on the Zimbabwean authorities to resume the downward trend in human 2. Digital/social media 7.0 rights abuses. In the absence of a roadmap to credible and properly 3. Strategic communications including; 26.0 monitored elections, the Inclusive Government continues (a) Stakeholder engagement — to offer the only credible means of transforming Zimbabwe (b) Strategic communication advisors — and of delivering basic services to its people. But to (c) Customer insight — succeed, it needs a clear commitment from all parties to work together to implement the reforms set out in the 4. Corporate communications including; 5.0 Global Political Agreement. (a) Brand management — We will continue to engage with our international (b) Reputation management — partners, including South Africa and the Southern African (c) Corporate publications — Development Community, in considering how best to work with reformers in Zimbabwe and the region, to 5. Marketing including; 30.0 improve prospects of reform and to prepare for credible (a) Campaign management — and properly monitored elections. 263W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 264W

Table 1: Central communications staff, accounts for all staff working Table 2: Embedded communications in the Department. Accounts in the Communications Directorate. Data from February 2011 for all staff working in the Department in policy teams. Data from Discipline Total April 2010 Discipline Total (b) Sponsorship and partnership marketing — (c) Customer insight — 3. Strategic communications including; 33.0 (d) Research and evaluation — (a) Stakeholder engagement — (b) Strategic communication advisors — (e) Publications, including: — (c) Customer insight — I. print procurement — II. design services — 4. Corporate communications including; III. editorial and copywriting — 0.0 (a) Brand management — (b) Reputation management — 6. Media/press including; 47.0 (c) Corporate publications — (a) Media handling — (b) Media-focused ministerial events/visits — 5. Marketing including; 1.0 (c) Media planning — (a) Campaign management — (d) Speechwriting — (b) Sponsorship and partnership marketing — (e) Public relations — (c) Customer insight — (f) Public affairs (arms-length bodies) — (d) Research and evaluation — (e) Publications, including: — 7. Senior management 2.0 IV. print procurement — V. design services — 8. Support staff 13.0 VI. editorial and copywriting —

Total central communication function staff 136.00 6. Media/press including; 0.0 (a) Media handling — (b) Media-focused ministerial events/visits — Table 2: Embedded communications in the Department. Accounts (c) Media planning — for all staff working in the Department in policy teams. Data from (d) Speechwriting — April 2010 (e) Public relations — Discipline Total (f) Public affairs (arms-length bodies) — 1. Internal communications including; 3.0 (a) Employee engagement — 7. Senior management 1.0 (b) Change management — (c) Internal channel management — 8. Support staff 2.0

2. Digital/social media; 6.0 Total embedded communication function 46.0 staff

Table 3 (b) (c) (d) Internal External Comms Figures (WTE) as (a) Press Comms Comms strategy Communications at: officers officers officers officers

Alcohol Education and Research Council 1 February 2011 — — — — Appointments Commission 3 February 2011 1— 1— 1— 1— Care Quality Commission 1 February 2011 4 4 16 — Council for Healthcare Regulatory Excellence 7 February 2011 2— 2— 2— 2— General Social Care Council 4 February 2011 1 — 2 3 Health Protection Agency December 2010 3— 3— 3— 3— Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority 31 January 2011 1 — 3 1 Human Tissue Authority 7 February 2011 1 1 1 1 Monitor 7 February 2011 2 1.5 2.5 1 Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency4 1 February 2011 3 1 0 1 1 Appointments Commission has one post holder who undertakes all Communications activity and it is not possible to determine the split between the roles (a)-(d). 2 Council for Healthcare Regulatory Excellence has one post holder who undertakes all Communications activity and it is not possible to determine the split between the roles (a)-(d). 3 Health Protection Agency has a total of 30 staff who work across all these disciplines. It is not possible to isolate staff into individual categories as they cross all of them. 4 Executive Agency 265W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 266W

Departmental Security Mr Simon Burns: The Government’s response to the consultation ‘Liberating the NHS: Legislative framework Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and next steps’ summarises the responses received to the which persons not employed by Government Departments consultation on the White Paper ‘Equity and excellence: or agencies hold passes entitling them to enter his Liberating the NHS’, and associated consultations, Department’s premises. [39264] including ‘Commissioning for Patients’. A list of organisations which responded to the consultation is Mr Simon Burns: Passes may be issued to those who available on the Department’s website at: are required to make frequent visits to specific Government www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ sites, subject to the usual security checks. For security @dh/@en/@ps/documents/digitalasset/dh_123342.pdf reasons it would not be appropriate to provide details of individuals who hold such passes. Health Services

Doctors: Foreign Workers Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he has assessed the risk that patients may be Harriett Baldwin: To ask the Secretary of State for refused care that they were previously entitled to Health how many doctors in the NHS are employed on following the implementation of the provisions of the tier 1 work permits for highly skilled migrants. [39162] Health and Social Care Bill. [38743]

Mr Simon Burns: This information is not available. Mr Simon Burns: The requirement to promote a Unlike those who come into the United Kingdom under comprehensive health service free at the point of use, Tier 2 of the points based system, Tier 1 migrants do first set out in the NHS Act 1946, is unchanged by the not need a job offer before they arrive in the UK. provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill. The Home Office records the number of entry clearance visas issued out of country. In the first three quarters of Hospitals: Coventry the financial year 2010-11, 12,470 visas were issued under Tier 1 of the highly skilled migrant category of Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State the point based system. for Health (1) if he will have discussions with the chief executive of university hospital Coventry on its contract Doctors: Working Hours with ISS Facility Services; what the date was on which renegotiation of the contract started; what the name Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Health was of the person who took the decision to renegotiate (1) what proportion of hospital rotas for doctors identified the contract; and if he will make a statement; [38947] staffing gaps in the last month for which figures are (2) if he will assess the effects of the renegotiation of available; [38278] the contract between university hospitals Coventry and (2) what steps he is taking to ensure that hospital Warwickshire and ISS Facility Services on (a) car park rotas for doctors are appropriately staffed. [38281] charges, (b) catering and (c) cleaning; and if he will make a statement; [38948] Mr Simon Burns: This information is not collected (3) what information NHS hospitals are obliged to centrally. It is for individual national health service place in the public domain in respect of renegotiation of trusts to identify gaps and ensure their service rotas are contracts with (a) NHS and (b) non-NHS partners; designed and staffed appropriately. and if he will make a statement. [38949]

Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Simon Burns: University Hospitals Coventry and (1) what assessment he has made of the potential effects Warwickshire NHS Trust (UHCW) does not have a on staffing gaps in hospital rotas of the extension of the contract directly with ISS. This is held between Coventry European Working Time Directive to junior doctors; and Rugby Hospital Company (CRHC) and ISS. CRHC [38279] is the private company that is contractually required to (2) whether he has made an assessment of the market test ’soft’ FM services (catering, cleaning, car accuracy of information collected to assess compliance parking etc) at regular intervals on behalf of the trust with the European Working Time Directive; and if he under the private finance initiative (PFI) contract, and will make a statement. [38280] to manage the tendering process. During the initial stage of this process in the first half Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not collect of 2010, CRHC, on behalf of their sub-contractor data of the potential effects on staffing gaps in junior (ISS), was asked to submit data to the trust, in order for doctors’ rotas. It is a requirement that local organisations it to carry out a benchmarking exercise. The trust collect and assess whether their data are accurate in commissioned work from independent consultants which measuring compliance with the working time directive. demonstrated that the existing ISS service costs were within market range. Based on this the trust considered General Practitioners renewing the existing service provider. At the same time the trust was offered a cost reduction package, which Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health included significant reductions within the contract of if he will publish the responses to his Department’s over £1 million per annum and the part-absorption of a proposals for GP consortia in the Health White Paper. number of annual cost pressures, at the supplier’s risk, [38722] up to 2018. These factors were considered by the Trust 267W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 268W

Board on 28 July 2010 and the decision taken to instruct (i) Monitor, (ii) the National Health Service Commissioning CRHC to extend the ISS contract to 2018 on these Board and (iii) commissioning consortia. [38823] terms. The contract between CRCH and ISS has been continued Mr Simon Burns: The proposals outlined in the Health with the same output specifications and service agreements and Social Care Bill would require that Monitor and in terms of the standard and quality of services ISS are the National Health Service Commissioning Board must required to deliver. So despite the cost reduction obtain the Secretary of State’s approval to its policies programmes, it is not expected patients and staff will on remuneration, payment of pensions and other allowances experience any changes in these services. Ministers are for employees. satisfied that the trust has therefore secured overall value for money from its renegotiation of this contract The Bill also proposes that each commissioning and do not therefore intend to discuss this issue with the consortium is to be a corporate body which may appoint chief executive of the trust. employees on such terms and conditions (including Where national health service hospitals renegotiate remuneration) as it determines. The National Health existing contracts, relevant business cases and other Service Commissioning Board may publish guidance supporting information should be publicly available for for consortia on the determination of remuneration for discussion, subject to the commercial interests of the employees. Consortia would also be required to publish NHS. Final and approved documents must also be prescribed information in relation to the remuneration published, for example under a trust’s Freedom of of their employees. Information publication scheme, which is again subject to commercial considerations. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has for the future salary level Influenza: Vaccination of the chairman of Monitor in each of the next four years. [38824] Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he made in October 2010 of the appropriateness of the proposed launch date for the Mr Simon Burns: The remuneration level for the 2010-11 seasonal influenza advertising campaign. chairman of the Independent Regulator of NHS [39316] Foundation Trusts (Monitor), has been advertised as up to £57,000 for two days a week. No appointment has yet Mr Lansley: Decisions on seasonal flu related advertising been made. campaigns were taken prior to October 2010. As in previous years, local national health service organisations Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State continued to run targeted communications to people for Health what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers in who were eligible for a free flu vaccination. his Department have had with Monitor to discuss his In response to data on rising rates of flu infection in proposals for NHS reform. [38825] England, I received and considered advice over the Christmas period on whether to launch the Catch It Kill It Bin It campaign. This campaign is designed to Mr Simon Burns: The Secretary of State and other encourage behaviours, such as covering coughs and Ministers have had the following meetings with Monitor sneezes and regular hand-washing, that are likely to to discuss the proposals for the national health service slow the spread of flu. The campaign was launched on 1 reforms: January 2011. Date of meeting Ministers in attendance Medical Equipment: Counterfeit Manufacturing 15 June 2010 1. Secretary of State David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether the Medicines and Healthcare products 20 July 2010 1. Secretary of State Regulatory Agency has received recent reports on the 2. Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Earl Howe) use of counterfeit pulse oximeter sensors in hospitals. 3. Minister of State (Mr Simon [39118] Burns) Mr Simon Burns: The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has received 1 September 2010 1. Secretary of State reports on the use of counterfeit pulse oximeter sensors 2. Minister of State (Mr Simon Burns) which it is investigating. MHRA has issued a Medical Device Alert warning 22 September 2010 1. Parliamentary Under-Secretary interested parties in the national health service to look of State (Earl Howe) out for counterfeit sensors and report any such occurrences to the Agency. 11 October 2010 1. Minister of State (Mr Simon Monitor Burns)

Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for 12 January 2011 1. Secretary of State 2. Minister of State (Mr Simon Health what his policy is on the future regulation of (a) Burns) salaries, (b) bonuses and (c) pensions of employees of 269W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 270W

National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence The National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence published Clinical Guideline in February 2008 regarding Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the diagnosis and treatment of prostate cancer, which what plans he has to assign a role to the National includes recommendations for the care and management Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in the provision of men with prostate cancer in primary care. of advice to pharmaceutical companies. [38725] Health care professionals should ensure that mechanisms are in place to allow men with prostate cancer and their Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health primary care providers to gain access to specialist services and Clinical Excellence (NICE) currently offers a scientific throughout the course of their disease. advice service to pharmaceutical companies and device manufacturers about products they have in development and we expect this work to continue. NICE charges a WALES fee for its scientific advice. Coal: Industry NHS Commissioning Board Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State what recent discussions she has had with the Welsh for Health when he expects to establish the NHS Assembly Government on the future of the coal industry Commissioning Board. [38688] in Wales; and if she will make a statement. [38708]

Mr Simon Burns: The NHS Commissioning Board Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales, my will act in shadow form as a special health authority right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham during 2011-12 and, subject to parliamentary approval, (Mrs Gillan) and I have regular discussions with Welsh it will be established as a non-departmental public body Assembly Government Ministers on a range of issues from April 2012. affecting Wales including the coal industry. NHS: Finance Wales is leading the way by using its natural resources including clean coal, to help tackle one of the greatest challenges facing the global economy—climate change. Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Health New technologies being developed mean there is a real whether patients are to be informed of the costs of the prospect of reducing coal emissions to a level comparable treatments they are offered following the implementation to gas, and there are further benefits to be gained from of the provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill. carbon capture. [38740] This, in addition to our continued support for the Mr Simon Burns: The Health and Social Care Bill plans for an open cast operation at Tower Colliery near published on 19 January does not include provisions Hirwaun and a new deep mine on the Port Talbot relating to informing patients of the costs of treatments Steelworks site, means that coal continues to have a offered. future in Wales. NHS: Standards Departmental Information Officers Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications whether he has any plans to revise arrangements for officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) data collection on waiting times for (a) operations and communications strategy officers and (e) other positions (b) diagnostic tests and for publication of such data. with a communications remit were employed by (i) her [38724] Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- departmental public body sponsored by her Department Mr Simon Burns: There are no plans to revise the on the most recent date for which figures are available. data that are collected on referral to treatment waiting [38968] times and waits for diagnostics tests. These data will continue to be published on the Department’s website Mr David Jones: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the at: answer given on 25 January 2011, Official Report, column www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Statistics/ 192W, to the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd index.htm (Mr Llwyd). Prostate Cancer Foreign Investment in UK: Higher Education

Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Health what estimate he has made of the number of what recent discussions she has had with the Welsh attendances at general practitioner surgeries by men Assembly Government on the role of higher education with a diagnosis of prostate cancer in the latest period in Wales in attracting inward investment; and if she will for which figures are available. [38794] make a statement. [38705]

Paul Burstow: The Department has made no estimate Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales and of the number of attendees at general practitioner I have regular discussions with Welsh Assembly Government surgeries by men with a diagnosis of cancer, as the data Ministers on a range of topics including the role of higher are not centrally collected. education in attracting inward investment to Wales. 271W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 272W

Higher education plays a major role in attracting The new campus is intended to allow academic investment into Wales. It is vital that Wales offers a researchers to collaborate with companies such as Rolls- skilled and innovative workforce that is able to attract Royce so they can commercialise ideas. This is good large international companies to locate and invest there. news for Wales, helping to create thousands of jobs and My right hon. Friend and I remain committed to put more than £3 billion into the regional economy over working with Welsh Assembly Government Ministers 10 years. It is a significant boost to the Welsh economy to look at ways to encourage more inward investment to as we begin the return to growth and prosperity. Wales in future. My right hon. Friend has also invited the Welsh Assembly Government to be represented on her Business Advisory Group which focuses on ways to boost trade, investment and the economy in Wales. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Higher Education Departmental Information Officers Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions she has had with the Welsh Assembly Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Government on the future of higher education in Wales; International Development how many (a) press officers, and if she will make a statement. [38707] (b) internal communications officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) communications strategy Mr David Jones: I have regular discussions with officers and (e) other positions with a communications Welsh Assembly Government Ministers on a range of remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its issues including higher education. agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public body sponsored by his Department on the most recent Following the conclusion of the Browne Review in date for which figures are available. [38953] England the Welsh Assembly Government have also recognised the need to raise tuition fees in order to make higher education affordable and sustainable in Mr O’Brien: The latest figures on communications Wales. staff were collated as part of a review of the communications networks within the Department for Iron and Steel: Industry International Development (DFID). This showed that in April 2010 there were 109 full time equivalent (FTE) Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales staff working in communications roles across the what recent discussions she has had with the Welsh Department. This included staff in both the UK and in Assembly Government on the future of the steel industry overseas offices. in Wales; and if she will make a statement. [38711] As a result of the review this number will fall to 60.2 FTE communications posts across DFID by April 2011, Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales and and can be broken down as follows: I have regular discussions with Welsh Assembly Government (a) 20.6 press officers Ministers on a range of issues affecting Wales including (b) five internal communications officers the steel industry. (c) 0 external communications officers The steel industry in Wales continues to contribute significantly to the Welsh economy and support Welsh (d) 20 strategic communications officers Jobs. For example, there are some 7,000 people employed (e) 14.6 other positions with a communications remit, including in Wales by Tata and many times that number employed 10.6 digital communications officers by the wider economic community of contractors, suppliers and other partners. We continue to work with Tata and Developing Countries: Agriculture the Welsh Assembly Government to take forward the company’s plans for a deep mine on the Port Talbot site which could create hundreds more much needed jobs. Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps he is taking to Science: Finance help assist in increasing food production in the developing world; and if he will make a statement. [38801] Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions she has had with the Welsh Assembly Mr O’Brien: In 2010-11, the Department for Government on science funding in Wales; and if she International Development (DFID) invested £65 million will make a statement. [38706] in agricultural research aimed at increased food production, including £36.7 million through support for the Consultative Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales and Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR). I have regular discussions with the First Minister and Evidence suggests that for every $1 invested in this Welsh Assembly Government Ministers on a range of global partnership at least an additional $9 worth of issues. additional food is produced in developing countries (Raizer 2003). We are committed to supporting the development of Wales’s science and innovation base. We welcome, in As the recent Foresight study by the Government particular, funding announced last month from the Office of Science into Global Food and Farming Futures Welsh Assembly Government, which will help support states: British Petroleum’s new £400 million university science “food production will have to increase by 70% and 100% just to campus in Swansea. keep up with demand″. 273W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 274W

This will be hugely challenging for the global food on animal products: imports, what proportion of her system. DFID and the Department for Environment, Department’s budget for paid-for communication about Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) will be jointly assessing illegal imports will be spent on (a) print press, (b) the recommendations to determine what follow up action television, (c) internet and (d) poster material in each to take. of the next four years. [37975] Developing Countries: Government Securities Mr Paice [holding answer 3 February 2011]: The proportion of DEFRA’s budget allocated between different Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for communication channels for the next four years of this International Development whether he plans to take campaign has not yet been determined. steps to support the development of the bond market for emerging market sovereign issuers. [38764] However, the choice of communication channels will focus on low-cost channels, reflecting the Government-wide Mr O’Brien: The Department for International reduction in spending on marketing and advertising Development (DFID) does not have current plans to campaigns. support the development of the bond market for emerging market sovereign issuers. Before the financial crisis a Animal Welfare number of emerging market and low income countries were issuing or exploring bond issuances. The financial Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for crisis reduced the level of interest in these markets. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she expects Turks and Caicos Islands: Finance her Department’s research project on the extent of use and humaneness of snares to report. [38829] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much funding his Mr Paice: We expect to publish the report in 2011 but Department has contributed to the Turks and Caicos asyethavenofirmdate. Special Investigation and Prosecution Team since its creation. [38858] Bees: Pesticides Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Development (DFID) has not contributed directly to Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for the funding of the Turks and Caicos Islands (TCI) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Special Investigation and Prosecution Team. she has made of the effect of neonicotinoid pesticides DFID has provided short term financial support to on bees and other non-target species. [37836] TCI, now totalling lending of £27.3 million with another £2.6 million available, while finalising a medium term Mr Paice: The UK pesticides regulatory body—the financial package of support for the Territory. Health and Safety Executive’s Chemicals Regulation Directorate (CRD)—has liaised with other EU regulatory authorities that have imposed restrictions on the use of these pesticides. It also reviews developments on how PRIME MINISTER risks to bee health from the use of pesticides are assessed Pharmaceutical Industry and monitored. CRD scientists attended the 10th International Symposium of the International Commission Mr Thomas: To ask the Prime Minister what meetings for Plant-Bee Relationships (ICPBR) on Hazards of he has had with representatives of the pharmaceutical Pesticides to Bees, in October 2008; no new scientific industry since his appointment with whom he met in evidence was presented at this meeting, or more recently, each case; and what the (a) purpose and (b) location to suggest a need for changes to current UK pesticide was of each such meeting. [39135] authorisations. Ministers have also considered scientific advice, including The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the views of the independent Advisory Committee on Pesticides, list of official meetings by Ministers with external on a report issued last year by a number of environmental organisations. This list was published for the first time organisations—the Buglife report “The impact of in October 2010 and is published on a quarterly basis, in neonicotinoid insecticides on bumblebees, honeybees accordance with the new ministerial code. and other non-target invertebrates (2009)2. The report Andrew Witty, chief executive officer of highlighted a need for data on the impacts of neonicotinoid GlaxoSmithKline, is part of my business advisory group. pesticides on overwintering of bees in the risk assessment This has met on 3 November 2010 and 2 February 2011. process. This issue had already been identified by regulators I also refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on and is being addressed through changes to the EU 2 February 2011, Official Report, column 854. regulatory data requirements. Government scientists have continued to keep up to date with emerging findings and we are supporting further work in this area. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS The Government have regularly considered the available evidence in this area and there is no need for an additional Animal Products: Imports review. CRD would act on any substantive evidence should incidents occur in the UK and will continue to Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for monitor research and developments in other EU member Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the states and elsewhere to see if they are relevant to the answer of 26 January 2011, Official Report, column 284W, UK. 275W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 276W

Common Fisheries Policy have transferred to other Government Departments and a further two have left as their Fixed Term Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Appointments have expired. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what objectives No contractual or non-contractual payments were she has set for the outcome of the Common Fisheries made to these leavers on normal retirement, resignation Policy review in 2013. [39388] or end of FTA, other than their final salary and any outstanding annual leave that they may have had. However, Richard Benyon: We want reform of the Common for those staff that left the Department under our early Fisheries Policy to provide the right framework to deliver retirement scheme, they received a lump sum payment healthy fish stocks, and a sustainable living for fishermen. as part of the terms of the scheme. To achieve this, we need radical reform to simplify and decentralise fisheries management, building in the right Environment incentives for fishermen to operate sustainably and profitably, and cutting the terrible waste of discards. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Dangerous Dogs Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she has to commission future local environment quality surveys of England; and if she will make a statement. Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, [38609] Food and Rural Affairs how many dangerous dogs were seized and destroyed in each of the last three years. Richard Benyon: Since 2001, the charity Keep Britain [38538] Tidy has carried out the Local Environment Quality Survey of England (LEQSE) on behalf of DEFRA. Mr Paice: DEFRA does not hold these data centrally. Preparation for the next survey (2010-11) is under way This information is held by each individual police force. with results expected to be published in the autumn. The LEQSE provides valuable information on levels of Departmental Civil Servants cleanliness in the public realm across England, and I expect surveys along these lines to continue through the Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for spending review period. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what senior civil service staff moves there have been in her Department Environment: Public Expenditure since May 2010; and what the (a) name and (b) salary is of each person (i) moving posts within and (ii) leaving her Department. [36520] Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy Richard Benyon: Since May 2010, 10 senior civil is on the development of policies to enhance the local servants have moved posts within the Department for environment and reduce litter; and how many staff of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and 14 have left. her Department she expects to be allocated to work on such issues in each year of the comprehensive spending Individual names and salaries cannot be disclosed, review period. [38610] but the following table shows the number of staff involved whose salary (either current or at the point of departure) Richard Benyon: The Government believe that we falls within each bracket of £20,000: need to protect our environment and improve our quality Salary range Left Moved Total of life and well-being. In particular, the Coalition’s programme for government includes the aim of working £50,000- 369to reduce litter, a key aspect of local environment £69,999 quality. DEFRA is working closely with local authorities, £70,000- 7310business, civil society and others, to develop the “Love £89,999 Where You Live” behaviour change initiative which it £90,000- 314expects to launch publically in the spring. £l09,999 £110,000- 000Policy development on litter and local environment £129,999 quality forms part of the work of the Atmosphere and £130,000- 101Local Environment Programme in DEFRA. Currently, £149,999 two members of DEFRA staff work on these issues Total 14 10 24 and, according to current plans, an allocation on broadly this scale is likely to continue through the spending review period. In addition, as part of the spending Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for review settlement, the Government have announced Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what senior civil continuing grant support to DEFRA’s delivery partner service staff have left her Department since May 2010; on local environment quality issue, Keep Britain Tidy. and what (a) contractual and (b) non-contractual payments were made in each case. [36521] Farming: Salmon Richard Benyon: The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs have had 17 senior staff leave Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, the Department since May 2010. 11 of these have left Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is on the following retirement, (five of which recently left under provision of assistance to the farmed salmon industry. our early retirement scheme), two have resigned, two [39277] 277W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 278W

Richard Benyon: Grant aid for projects in the fisheries 557 hectares of heritage woodland, 428 hectares of sector is available under the European Fisheries Fund multi-purpose woodland and 226 hectares of small (EFF) programme for 2007-13. Fish farming falls under commercial woodland. Axis 2 of the scheme, intended for investments in aquaculture and processing and for marketing of fishery Litter and aquaculture products. The EFF promotes the purchase and use of gear, and methods that reduce the impact of Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for aquaculture production on the environment and improve Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what her the quality of produce and conditions in terms of Department’s policy is on the role of the private sector human and animal health. in delivering a national litter campaign; [38700] (2) what plans she has for a national coordinating Forestry Commission body for delivery of a national litter campaign; [38701] (3) whether her Department plans to hold a public Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for consultation on the future of Keep Britain Tidy. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment [38702] she has made of likely trends in the amount of timber logged from Forestry Commission land under her Richard Benyon: “Love Where You Live” is a new proposed reforms to the forest estate. [38389] behaviour change initiative on litter announced at the National Litter convention in December 2010. Its aim is Mr Paice: No significant impact is expected on the to work towards a substantially cleaner England by amount of timber being produced. Any new owner 2020 through encouraging partnerships between business, would be expected to manage their woodland sustainably local authorities and other land managers, communities in accordance with the UK Forestry Standard and and civil society. Businesses are expected to play a key would be subject to normal felling controls. role in the development and use of the single anti-littering message, as well as contributing to behaviour change Forests campaigns. DEFRA’s delivery partner on local environment quality Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for and litter is the charity Keep Britain Tidy who will Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she plans receive grant-in-aid from Government of £4 million in to announce the results of the consultation on her 2011-12. They will have a central role in co-ordinating proposals on the sale of the public forest estate in work on “Love Where You Live”. England before Royal Assent to the Public Bodies Bill; Keep Britain Tidy is a charity independent of and if she will make a statement. [38971] Government and was established following a campaign in the 1950s by the National Federation Of Women’s Mr Paice: The results of the consultation on the Institutes. There are no plans for a public consultation future of the public forest estate will be published as on the future of Keep Britain Tidy. soon as the responses have been fully assessed. This is likely to be in the summer. The date of Royal Assent Shellfish depends upon the progress of the Public Bodies Bill through Parliament. Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress Land: Christchurch her Department has made in reducing the incidence of crayfish plague. [38065]

Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Mr Paice: Crayfish plague is not a notifiable disease Food and Rural Affairs how many acres of land in in England and Wales and is therefore not subject to Christchurch constituency are owned or managed by any formal controls. However, the Centre for Environment, the Forestry Commission; what proportion of such Fisheries and Aquaculture Science (CEFAS)does investigate land is open to public access; and what proportion is all reported mortalities of crayfish. It also provides classified as (a) heritage and (b) community forest and advice to other agencies and stakeholders on the most woodland. [38836] effective ways to contain the disease in the case of a confirmed outbreak. It is believed that most populations Mr Paice [holding answer 7 February 2011]: The of signal crayfish in Great Britain are likely to carry the Forestry Commission manages approximately 1,211 pathogen causing this disease, and so efforts to prevent hectares of land in the Christchurch constituency, the the spread of the disease have concentrated on preventing majority of which is freehold and most of this dedicated the spread of the carrier species. for public access on foot under the provisions in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. Outbreaks of crayfish plague have been rare in recent years, but to reduce the risk, several measures have been Of the 116 hectares that is in leasehold ownership put in place by the Environment Agency (EA). For more than half is subject to a formal access agreement example, fish movements are licensed through Section to allow public access. The remainder has access on 30’ consents: through this licensing procedure, the EA is public rights of way and although there is no formal careful to ensure that fish from waters that contain agreement, public access is tolerated by the freeholder. signal crayfish are not moved to those where native The land has been given an indicative categorisation crayfish occur. There is an agreed protocol with Natural on the map that accompanies the consultation on the England to protect protected wildlife sites containing future of the public forest estate in England. There are native crayfish. 279W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 280W

Squirrels Department has any plans to introduce legislative proposals on wildlife crime. [39123] Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate Richard Benyon: DEFRA is currently reviewing the she has made of the size of the red squirrel population Control of Trade in Endangered Species (Enforcement) for each of the last five years. [39113] Regulations 1997, in light of a review of European Regulations in this area as well as developments in Richard Benyon: There is no reliable estimate of the domestic enforcement trends and techniques since the red squirrel population in the UK. It is difficult to regulations were last amended. obtain an accurate figure as the number of squirrels per A decision has yet to be made whether to pursue an hectare varies considerably, due to environmental factors order under section 45 of the Natural Environment and such as food supply, weather conditions and breeding Rural Communities Act 2006 to make possession of success. pesticides containing certain ingredients an offence. Sustainable Development Commission We have no other current plans to introduce further legislation. Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she has for the carrying out of the capacity building activities of the Sustainable Development Commission following ATTORNEY-GENERAL its abolition. [38169]

Mr Paice: In November 2010 the Secretary of State Departmental Information Officers for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs wrote to the Environmental Audit Committee and Sustainable Development Commission (SDC) explaining that she Pete Wishart: To ask the Attorney-General how many will transfer some elements of the Commission’s capability (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, building expertise back into DEFRA and officials are (c) external communications officers, (d) communications in the process of agreeing the details of this with the strategy officers and (e) other positions with a SDC. The Government will announce their wider plans communications remit were employed by (i) his Department, for mainstreaming sustainable development in the near (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental future. public body sponsored by his Department on the most recent date for which figures are available. [38967] Wildlife: Crime The Solicitor-General: The information requested is John Stevenson: To ask the Secretary of State for given in the following table, correct, as of 3 February Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her 2011.

Internal External Other communications communications Communications communications Department Press officers officers officers strategy officers officers Total

Attorney General’s 303 Office Crown Prosecution 26 25.5 2.5 11034 Service 3 9.25 39.75 Serious Fraud Office 2 1 1 0 0 4 Treasury Solicitors 4— 3 0 0.25 3.25 Department HM Crown Prosecution 1012 Service Inspectorate National Fraud 10 2 1216 Authority 1 Includes Heads of Communication for the CPS and NFA 2 HQ 3 Regional 4 Covered by AGO press office Note: All posts are given as full-time equivalents. This table does not include public inquiry, correspondence or FOI teams.

TREASURY partially owned by the Government who have received bonuses of £1 million or more in 2010. [36442] Financial Institutions: Incentives Mr Hoban: The Government have taken robust action Graeme Morrice: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to tackle unacceptable bonuses. The Financial Services if he will publish the names and company affiliations of Authority has revised the Remuneration Code and new employees of banks and financial institutions wholly or rules came into force on 1 January 2011, requiring 281W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 282W bonuses throughout the banking industry to be deferred Child Care Tax Credit and linked to performance and imposing a strict limit on the amount of cash payable upfront. Stephen Timms: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer In addition, the FSA has also introduced a remuneration what estimate he has made of the level of savings which disclosure regime requiring banks to issue a report will accrue to the Exchequer as a result of reducing the containing qualitative information on pay policies and rate of childcare support from 80% to 70%. [38670] detailed aggregate quantitative information on the remuneration paid to significant risk takers. The new Mr Gauke: The following table shows the information rules came into force on 1 January 2011 and the banks requested. will have to issue a report at least annually, starting in 2011 in respect of the 2010 financial year. Saving (£ million) The financial institutions in which the Government 2011-12 370 have a stake will be required to disclose information as 2012-13 430 required under the revised FSA Remuneration Code. 2013-14 465 2014-15 500 Bank of England: Public Appointments This information can be found in the “Spending Review 2010 Policy Costings” document on the Treasury Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what website: his policy is on limiting the tenure of future governors http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/sr2010_policycostings.pdf of the Bank of England to a single term. [38686] Credit Unions Mr Hoban: Under the Banking Act 2009, appointments as a Governor or Deputy Governor are for a period of five years and a person may not be appointed as Governor Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer or Deputy Governor more than twice. At present, there what steps his Department has taken to promote credit are no plans to amend this arrangement. unions in the last 13 years; and what plans he has for further such steps in the next five years. [37504]

Banks: Iceland Mr Hoban: In line with the coalition’s aim to “bring forward detailed proposals to foster diversity, promote Mr Offord: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer mutuals and create a more competitive banking industry” what recent steps his Department has taken to secure the Government are working to reduce barriers to efficiency the return of local authority funds frozen in Icelandic and growth for credit unions. bank accounts. [39383] The Legislative Reform (Industrial and Provident Societies and Credit Unions) Order will enable credit Mr Hoban: The local authorities are creditors in the unions to broaden their membership and offer interest administrations of the failed Icelandic Banks. The timing on deposits, for example. This will be re-laid in Parliament and quantum of recoveries will be determined by the before Easter. administrators. The Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Contact details for the administrators in the various and Credit Unions Act will improve the corporate resolutions are available on the HM Treasury website: governance of all Industrial and Provident Societies, http://hm-treasury.gov.uk/ including Credit Unions, by applying the Company fin_stability_icelandic_resolution.htm Directors Disqualification Act 1986 and other aspects of company law. These sections will be commenced over Child Benefit the coming months. Government have recently consulted on an electronic Chris Williamson: To ask the Chancellor of the communications in the mutual sector, which will help Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of make the mutuals sector, including credit unions, more households that will cease to be eligible for child benefit efficient. The order will be laid before Easter. as a result of the change in the higher rate income tax The Government are also planning to bring Northern threshold; and if he will make a statement. [39319] Ireland credit unions under FSA regulation. This will provide members of these credit unions with access to the Financial Ombudsman Service and Financial Services Mr Gauke: The change to child benefit announced at Compensation Scheme. the spending review does not change the eligibility criteria for child benefit payments. Where a person is The Treasury’s forward plan can be found at: currently entitled to receive child benefit they will continue www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_business_plan.htm to be entitled to receive payments regardless of whether they or their partner is a higher rate taxpayer, in these Debts: Advisory Services circumstances, it is the responsibility of the higher rate taxpayer to notify HMRC that their household is in Karen Lumley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer receipt of child benefit, which will then be recovered (1) if he will take steps to ensure that residents of through the tax system. Redditch constituency continue to receive independent It is estimated that around 1.5 million households advice on debt management following the ending of the will be affected by the proposed change to child benefit. Financial Inclusion Fund; [38653] 283W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 284W

(2) if he will make an assessment of the adequacy of to understand the potential scale of any redundancies debt advice services in Redditch constituency. [38654] and has taken steps to ensure that any redundancy costs can be met from project funds rather than affecting the Mr Hoban: The Government have not yet taken a viability of those organisations. decision on the future of the projects currently funded from the FIF, including the face-to-face debt advice Financial Services Authority service. The Government remain committed to helping poorer Karl McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer households to access appropriate financial services, to (1) what mechanisms are in place to assess the effectiveness improve their financial resilience and to avoid falling of the postholder of (a) chief executive officer, (b) into unsustainable levels of debt. managing director of wholesale and institutional markets, (c) managing director of the retail markets business Economic Situation unit and (d) managing director of supervision at the Financial Services Authority; [38338] Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (2) what mechanisms are in place to (a) assess and what assessment he has made of the reasons for the (b) review the qualifications and skills required for the trend in the level of gross domestic product in the position of (i) chief executive officer, (ii) managing fourth quarter of 2010. [38591] director of wholesale and institutional markets, (iii) managing director of the retail markets business unit Justine Greening: In preparing their preliminary estimate and (iv) managing director of supervision at the for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) the ONS made it Financial Services Authority; [38339] very clear that the fall in GDP was driven by the (3) what mechanisms are in place to assess how the extreme weather in December, and estimate that without postholder of (a) chief executive officer and (b) managing this disruption GDP would have been flat in the fourth director of supervision at the Financial Services Authority quarter. fulfil their responsibilities. [38340] Returning the UK to sustainable economic growth is the Government’s overriding priority. The OBR and Mr Hoban [holding answer 4 February 2011]: The other external bodies forecast a sustained economic Financial Services Authority (FSA) currently has one recovery in the UK through 2011 and beyond. managing director each for supervision, for risk and for EU Grants and Loans enforcement and financial crime. The appointment of executive directors is a matter Priti Patel: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer reserved to the board of the FSA. The standard contracts with reference to the consolidated statement on the use are continuous contracts of employment which contain of EU funds in the UK for 2008-09, what steps he is provision for 12 months prior notice of termination on taking to reduce the level of EU payment disallowances. either side. The appointment of individuals to the board of the FSA is a matter for the Treasury. [38904] At selection stage for CEO and managing director Justine Greening: Significant improvements have been roles there is a rigorous appointment process using a made in the administration of the Single Payment scheme panel drawn from senior external assessors, FSA non within DEFRA which accounted a significant element executive directors, in addition to either the chairman of disallowances and we are committed to further or CEO as appropriate. improvements to the governance, financial controls and Performance assessments of the managing directors IT systems used in its operation. In addition, we will are carried out by the chief executive officer and the continue to pursue simplification of the complex EU performance assessment of the CEO is carried out by rules that lead to some errors being made, and have also the chairman. Performance is judged against three key developed clearer and more comprehensive guidance sets of criteria—personal objectives, leadership objectives for Departments on accounting for EU funding. and achievement of FSA statutory objectives. The Statement and accompanying audit report strengthen parliamentary scrutiny of the UK’s use of EU funds. It Financial Services: Taxation helps us detect weaknesses in the UK’s management of these funds so that these can be more effectively and Matthew Hancock: To ask the Chancellor of the rapidly tackled, improving management of EU funds Exchequer what his Department’s assessment is of (a) across the board. the practical implications of and (b) the annual level of revenue which would be generated by implementing a Financial Inclusion Fund tax on financial transactions. [39183]

Karen Lumley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Hoban: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I if he will assess the implications for debt advice services gave him on 16 September 2010, Official Report, column in Redditch of the ending of the Financial Inclusion 1254W. Fund. [37611] Intergenerational Equity Mr Hoban: The Financial Inclusion Fund (FIF) has always been due to close in March 2011. The Government Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer have not yet taken a decision on the future of the whether he plans to take steps to ensure that projects currently funded from the FIF.In the meantime, intergenerational equity is included in the Green Book. the Government have worked with the delivery agencies [38771] 285W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 286W

Mr Gauke: The issue of intergenerational equity is Outturn figures for PSNB can be found in the public already addressed through supplementary guidance to finances databank on the Treasury website: the Green Book. The guidance, “Intergeneration Wealth http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/psf_statistics.htm Transfers and Social Discounting”, is available online: In their ‘Economic and Fiscal forecast’, published on http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/4(5).pdf 29 November, the independent Office for Budget The guidance advises that, in cases which involve the Responsibility forecast Public Sector Net Borrowing to very long term (at least fifty years), and which involve 2015-16. This is available at: substantial and irreversible wealth transfers between http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/d/ generations, a sensitivity calculation should be carried econ_fiscal_outlook_291110.pdf out on the discount rate. The sensitivity calculation should exclude the ’pure Public Sector: Redundancy time preference’ component of the discount rate. This reflects society’s preference for consuming the benefits Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the of policies sooner rather than later so, in some part, Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 26 January 2011, reflects impatience. It is not ethically defensible for the Official Report, column 316W, on public sector: pure time preference, or impatience, of the current redundancies, if he will take steps to ensure that public generation to lead to decisions which do not take full sector workers aged over 50 years are not disproportionately account of the welfare of future generations. adversely affected by public sector redundancies during The other components of the discount rate reflect the comprehensive spending review period. [39092] such factors as the expected growth in consumption (the fact that, if people are expected to be better off in Danny Alexander: It will be for individual employers the future than they are now, an extra unit of consumption to determine the exact workforce implications of their is generally taken to be worth less), which should continue settlements. to be allowed for in long term policy assessments. The Government will support employers to do everything they can to mitigate the impact of public sector job National Income losses by protecting jobs through pay and pensions reform, ensuring that staff in different public sector Mr Robinson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer workforces and each region will have visibility of suitable what his most recent forecast is for gross domestic vacancies, encouraging local employers to explore voluntary product growth in 2011. [39023] deals with staff on pay restraint or reduced hours in order to save jobs, and actively monitoring potential Justine Greening: The Office for Budget Responsibility workforce reductions, enabling decisions to be taken in (OBR) is responsible for producing independent economic time to mitigate localised impacts. and fiscal forecasts. The OBR published its latest economic forecast on 29 November 2010, which can be found VAT: Gravestones online at: http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk Jason McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the This includes the OBR’s forecast for Gross Domestic Exchequer (1) how much value added tax was raised on Product growth in 2011, of 2.1%. grave headstones in the last 12 months; [33782] The Chancellor has asked the OBR to publish a new (2) if he will consider exempting value added tax on economic forecast alongside the Budget on 23 March headstones for the graves of children who died when 2011. aged under 16 years; and if he will estimate the consequent loss of revenue to the Exchequer. [33783] Public Expenditure Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs does not hold Matthew Hancock: To ask the Chancellor of the data relating to VAT collected on specific goods or Exchequer if he will place in the Library the figures services such as grave headstones. underlying the graph on page 21 of the June 2010 The services provided by an undertaker in connection Budget showing estimates of the output gap based on with a burial or cremation are exempt from VAT. However, alternative trend growth assumptions. [39103] long-standing agreements with our EU partners, signed by successive governments, mean that we cannot extend Justine Greening: The figures underlying the graph the scope of this exemption to include headstones and on page 21 of the June 2010 Budget, showing estimates similar commemorative items. of the output gap based on alternative trend growth assumptions, have now been placed in the Library.

Public Finance NORTHERN IRELAND Andrew Rosindell: Toask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the size of the Fuel Prices UK budget deficit. [38921] 8. Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Justine Greening: The latest outturn figure for the Northern Ireland what assessment he has made of the Public Sector Net Borrowing (PSNB) is 11.1 % of GDP, effect on economic growth in Northern Ireland of or £156.5 billion in 2009-10. recent increases in fuel prices. [38261] 287W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 288W

Mr Paterson: The sterling oil price has risen 28% over Corporation Tax the past year. The Government consider a range of factors when making their assessment of economic Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for activity and growth in the UK. The Office for Budget Northern Ireland what the Government’s policy is on Responsibility’s November forecast shows that the reductions to the rate of corporation tax in Northern Government’s plans will deliver sustainable growth for Ireland; and if he will make a statement. [38265] each of the next five years. Mr Paterson: The Government aim to publish a Capital Investment consultation document setting out potential options for rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy, including a 10. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern discussion of the potential costs and benefits of a Ireland what steps he plans to take to ensure that reduction in the rate of corporation tax, as soon as commitments to capital investment in Northern Ireland possible. Treasury and Northern Ireland Office Ministers made as part of the St Andrews agreement are delivered. are in discussions with Northern Ireland Executive [38263] Ministers on the content of the paper.

Mr Swire: Notwithstanding the dreadful financial Departmental Information Officers situation, the Government stand by the commitment they gave to support the £18 billion capital investment Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern strategy in Northern Ireland. Ireland how many (a) press officers, (b) internal Over £9 billion has already been invested through a communications officers, (c) external communications number of funding streams and we believe Northern officers, (d) communications strategy officers and (e) Ireland is on target to meet the 2017-18 deadline. other positions with a communications remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each Economic Affairs other non-departmental public body sponsored by his Department on the most recent date for which figures 11. Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State are available. [38961] for Northern Ireland what recent assessment he has made of the state of the Northern Ireland economy. Mr Paterson: My Department employs a Director of [38264] Communications and has in place a secondment arrangement for two Information Officers from the Mr Paterson: The economy in Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland Civil Service. The Northern Ireland dominated by too large a public sector. Around 77% of Human Rights Commission, which is sponsored by my GDP, according to one survey is dependent on public Department, employs four full-time staff in communication expenditure. We are working with Northern Ireland roles including media engagement, publications and Ministers to rebalance the economy. web management. No communications staff are employed by the Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland or Inward Investment the Parades Commission for Northern Ireland.

12. John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS on inward investment into Northern Ireland. [38266] Apprentices: Greater London Mr Paterson: This is largely a devolved matter but I work closely with Northern Ireland Ministers to explore Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, ways to attract inward investment to Northern Ireland. Innovation and Skills (1) how many (a) apprenticeship Last week at Hillsborough, the Minister for Trade and and (b) advanced apprenticeship starts there were in (i) Investment, Department for Business, Innovation and Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency, (ii) the London Skills, my noble Friend Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint, borough of Bexley and (iii) Greater London in each of and I met with the Enterprise Minister (Arlene Foster) the last five years; [38666] and a number of key business representatives to discuss investment and growth. (2) what proportion of (a) apprenticeship and (b) advanced apprenticeship starts in (i) Bexleyheath and Human Trafficking Crayford constituency, (ii) the London borough of Bexley and (iii) Greater London in each of the last five years were (A) men and (B) women; [38669] 13. Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had (3) how many (a) apprenticeship and (b) advanced with the First Minister of Northern Ireland on the apprenticeship starts there were in each sector in (i) incidence of cross-border human trafficking. [38267] Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency, (ii) the London borough of Bexley and (iii) Greater London in each of Mr Swire: The Secretary of State for the Home the last five years. [38668] Department and the Northern Ireland Justice Minister have been working in close co-operation with the authorities Mr Hayes: The information is as follows: in the Republic of Ireland to tackle this despicable Table 1 shows the number of apprenticeship starts activity. I stand ready to offer what assistance I can to by level and gender for Bexleyheath and Crayford ensure that we continue to tackle human trafficking. parliamentary constituency, Bexley local authority and 289W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 290W

Greater London region in academic years 2005/06 to parliamentary constituency and Bexley local authority 2009/10, the latest years for which full year data are in academic years 2005/06 to 2009/10, the latest years available. for which full year data are available. Table 2 shows apprenticeship starts by level and sector subject area for Bexleyheath and Crayford

Table 1: Apprenticeship programme starts by level, geography and gender, 2005/06 to 2009/10 Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 No. % No. % No. % No. % No. %

Apprenticeship Female 90 54 90 53 120 49 100 54 150 56 (Level 2) Male 80 46 80 47 120 51 90 46 120 44 Total 170 100 170 100 240 100 190 100 260 100

Advanced Female 20 31 40 39 30 35 40 38 50 42 Apprenticeship (Level 3) Male 50 69 60 61 60 65 70 62 70 58 Total 70 100 90 100 100 100 110 100 120 100

Higher Level Female—————————— Apprenticeship (Level 4+) Male—————————— Total——————————

Bexleyheath and 240 260 340 310 380 Crayford total

Bexley local authority 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 No. % No. % No. % No. % No. %

Apprenticeship Female 230 55 240 54 260 47 250 50 350 52 (Level 2) Male 190 45 200 46 300 53 250 50 310 48 Total 420 100 440 100 560 100 490 100 660 100

Advanced Female 70 34 80 34 100 38 120 45 140 43 Apprenticeship (Level 3) Male 140 66 150 66 170 62 140 55 180 57 Total 210 100 240 100 270 100 260 100 320 100

Higher Level Female—————————— Apprenticeship (Level 4+) Male—————————— Total——————————

Bexley total 620 670 830 760 980

Greater London region 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 No. % No. % No. % No. % No. %

Apprenticeship Female 4,120 53 4,020 52 5,040 51 6,190 54 7,340 52 (Level 2) Male 3,650 47 3,690 48 4,890 49 5,320 46 6,710 48 Total 7,770 100 7,710 100 9,930 100 11,510 100 14,050 100 291W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 292W

Greater London region 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 No. % No. % No. % No. % No. %

Advanced Female 1,400 43 1,460 43 2,240 49 3,060 54 3,090 49 Apprenticeship (Level 3) Male 1,850 57 1,920 57 2,340 51 2,600 46 3,160 51 Total 3,250 100 3,380 100 4,580 100 5,660 100 6,250 100

Higher Level Female — — — — 10 — 10 — 20 46 Apprenticeship (Level 4+) Male—— —— —— —— 3054 Total — — — — 10 — 10 — 50 100

Greater London 11,010 11,090 14,520 17,180 20,350 region total

Table 2: Apprenticeship programme starts by level, geography and sector subject area, 2005/06 to 2009/10 Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Agriculture, Horticulture Apprenticeship (Level 2) — — 10 — — and Animal Care Advanced Apprenticeship ————— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Arts, Media and Publishing Apprenticeship (Level 2) — ———— Advanced Apprenticeship ————— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Business, Administration Apprenticeship (Level 2) 40 50 60 50 70 and Law Advanced Apprenticeship 10 20 20 20 30 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Construction, Planning and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 40 40 60 40 30 the Built Environment Advanced Apprenticeship 10 10 20 30 30 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Education and Training Apprenticeship (Level 2) — ———— Advanced Apprenticeship ———10— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Engineering and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 20 30 20 10 Manufacturing Technologies Advanced Apprenticeship 20 40 30 20 20 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Health, Public Services and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 10 20 20 20 Care Advanced Apprenticeship —10101020 (level 3) 293W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 294W

Table 2: Apprenticeship programme starts by level, geography and sector subject area, 2005/06 to 2009/10 Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Information and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 ———10 Communication Technology Advanced Apprenticeship ————10 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Leisure, Travel and Tourism Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 10 10 10 20 Advanced Apprenticeship 10—101010 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Retail and Commercial Apprenticeship (Level 2) 50 40 60 50 90 Enterprise Advanced Apprenticeship 10 20 10 20 10 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Unknown Apprenticeship (Level 2) — ———— Advanced Apprenticeship ——10—— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Bexleyheath and Crayford 240 260 340 310 380 constituency total

Bexley local authority 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Agriculture, Horticulture Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 10 10 10 10 and Animal Care Advanced Apprenticeship ————— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Arts, Media and Publishing Apprenticeship (Level 2) — ———— Advanced Apprenticeship ————— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Business, Administration Apprenticeship (Level 2) 110 110 140 120 170 and Law Advanced Apprenticeship 30 30 60 60 70 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Construction, Planning and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 90 90 130 110 90 the Built Environment Advanced Apprenticeship 30 30 40 60 80 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Education and Training Apprenticeship (Level 2) — ———— 295W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 296W

Bexley local authority 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Advanced Apprenticeship ———10— (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Engineering and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 40 50 70 60 40 Manufacturing Technologies Advanced Apprenticeship 60 100 80 40 40 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Health, Public Services and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 30 30 30 40 60 Care Advanced Apprenticeship 20 20 30 30 50 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Information and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 20 — 10 10 10 Communication Technology Advanced Apprenticeship 10 10 10 — 20 (Level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Leisure, Travel and Tourism Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 20 30 30 60 Advanced Apprenticeship 20 10 30 20 20 (Level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Retail and Commercial Apprenticeship (Level 2) 110 110 130 120 220 Enterprise Advanced Apprenticeship 20 40 20 40 40 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Unknown Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 — 10 — — Advanced Apprenticeship 20 10 10 — — (Level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Bexley local authority total 620 670 830 760 980

Greater London region 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Agriculture, Horticulture Apprenticeship (Level 2) 210 200 250 280 380 and Animal Care Advanced Apprenticeship 40 30 70 60 80 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Arts, Media and Publishing Apprenticeship (Level 2) 10 ———— Advanced Apprenticeship 20 — — 50 100 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Business, Administration Apprenticeship (Level 2) 1,880 1,790 2,980 3,800 4,400 and Law 297W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 298W

Greater London region 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Advanced Apprenticeship 510 520 920 1,470 1,480 (level 3) Higher Level ————40 Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Construction, Planning and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 1,130 1,100 1,340 1,110 990 the Built Environment Advanced Apprenticeship 430 390 400 730 790 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Education and Training Apprenticeship (Level 2) — — — 30 50 Advanced Apprenticeship ———18070 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Engineering and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 660 770 1,070 1,110 1,080 Manufacturing Technologies Advanced Apprenticeship 830 980 1,050 600 530 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Health, Public Services and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 1,050 1,130 950 1,240 1,880 Care Advanced Apprenticeship 640 690 1,100 1,190 1,500 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Information and Apprenticeship (Level 2) 300 290 360 610 550 Communication Technology Advanced Apprenticeship 140 110 220 350 760 (level 3) Higher Level — — 10 10 10 Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Leisure, Travel and Tourism Apprenticeship (Level 2) 300 270 430 820 1,150 Advanced Apprenticeship 150 170 320 550 560 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Retail and Commercial Apprenticeship (Level 2) 2,050 2,030 2,300 2,510 3,560 Enterprise Advanced Apprenticeship 240 370 420 490 400 (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4)

Unknown Apprenticeship (Level 2) 180 130 240 — — Advanced Apprenticeship 250 120 80 — — (level 3) Higher Level ————— Apprenticeships (Level 4) 299W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 300W

Greater London region 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10

Greater London region total 11,010 11,090 14,520 17,180 20,350 ‘—’ indicates a base value of less than five (or related percentage). Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Geography information is based upon the home postcode of the learner. Information on the number of apprenticeship starts is published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). The latest SFR was published on 27 January 2011 http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current Source: Individualised Learner Record

Apprentices: Pay body sponsored by his Department on the most recent date for which figures are available. [38965] Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what the average wage of an Mr Davey: The Department currently employs in its apprentice is in each region. [38667] central communications function: (a) 26 press officers; Mr Hayes: The most recent survey of apprentices’ (b) 8.3 internal communications officers; pay in England was undertaken in 2007, and estimated (c) 39 external communications officers; that the average net pay per week for an apprentice was (d) one communications strategy officer; £170. The report does not provide estimates of average (e) five other positions with a communications remit—four pay by region. speechwriters and a Director of Communications. The full report—‘Apprenticeship Pay: 2007 Survey of There are also 24 officers with a significant Earnings by Sector’—can be accessed at: communications remit embedded in policy teams across http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/corporate/migratedD/ the Department. publications/D/DIUS_RR_08_05 Data on present staffing levels in each of the The Department plans to undertake a UK-wide survey Department’s NDPB’s cannot be provided without of apprenticeship pay this year. incurring disproportionate cost. The coalition Government recently strengthened the I have approached the chief executives of the Insolvency pay arrangements for apprentices by bringing them Service, Companies House, the National Measurement within the National Minimum Wage (NMW) framework Office, the Intellectual Property Office and the Skills and ending the exemption from the minimum wage for Funding Agency and they will respond to the hon. apprentices. A new minimum pay rate of £2.50 per hour Member directly. came in from 1 October 2010 and applies to apprentices aged under 19, and those aged 19 and over in the first Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 7 February 2011: year of their apprenticeship. Apprentices aged 19 and The Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation over who have completed a year on their apprenticeship and Skills has asked me to reply to your question how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external continue to remain eligible for the full NMW rate communications officers, (d) communications strategy officers appropriate to their age. and (e) other positions with a communications remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- BP departmental public body sponsored by his Department or the most recent date for which figures are available. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, The Insolvency Service Executive Agency of the Department Innovation and Skills what recent discussions he has for Business. Innovation and Skills at the current time has: had with representatives of BP on company law and a. Three Press Officers company reporting. [38661] b. One Internal Communications Officer c. Two External Communications Officers Mr Davey: In the past two months, there has been no meeting with BP alone. The Secretary of State for d. None Business, Innovation and Skills and I had a meeting e One Communications Team Assistant; 1 Head of with business representatives, which included BP to Communications, and One Director of Strategy, Planning and discuss corporate governance issues. In addition BP Communications. were represented at one of the meetings that BIS officials Letter from Peter Mason, dated 8 February 2011: had with business representatives about company reporting I am responding in respect of the National Measurement issues. Office (formerly National Weights and Measures Laboratory) to your Parliamentary Question tabled on 02/02/2011 [reference Departmental Information Officers 2010/3753] asking how many press officers, internal communications officers, external communications officers, communications strategy officers and other positions with a communications remit were Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, employed on the most recent date for which figures are available. Innovation and Skills how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external The NMO defines communications in this Agency to cover the following disciplines: communications officers, (d) communications strategy officers and (e) other positions with a communications Internal communications remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its Digital/social media agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public Strategic communications 301W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 302W

Corporate communications Departmental Security Marketing Media and Press Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Currently we employ two members of staff (2 FTE) whose Innovation and Skills which persons not employed by roles cover all the above categories and one member of staff Government Departments or agencies hold passes entitling whose role is embedded in an operational delivery team and them to enter his Department’s premises. [39258] whose duties (equivalent to 0.3 FTE) include some of the above, more specifically dealing with the media and press, strategic Mr Davey: Passes may be issued to those who are communications and production of physical and electronic information. required to make frequent visits to specific Government sites, subject to the usual security checks. For security Letter from Gareth Jones, dated 3 February 2011: reasons it would not be appropriate to provide details of I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary individuals who hold such passes. Question tabled 2 February 2011, UIN 38965 to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Export Credit Guarantees: Egypt Companies House has a team of four people who act as both press officers and internal communications officers. As a customer Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for facing organisation a large proportion of Companies House staff Business, Innovation and Skills on what projects in has a role in communications. For example, as of today’s date we have a contact centre of approximately a hundred people who Egypt supported by the Export Credits Guarantee communicate with external customers on all aspects of our work. Department (ECGD) in the last 30 years is debt owed We also have teams who, as part of their overall work, provide to the ECGD; and how much is owed on each such customer support on specialist subjects such as search facilities, project. [38816] e-filing, liquidation, mortgage etc. Letter from Skills Funding Agency, dated 9 February Mr Davey: There are outstanding debts owed by 2011: Egypt of £98.52 million, which are the subject of two Thank you for your named day question asking the Secretary rescheduling agreements dated 1987 and 1991, that of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how relate to some 400 export contracts entered into before many staff in positions with a communications remit are currently 31 October 1986. Details of the goods or services supplied employed by the Skills Funding Agency (the Agency). under the individual contracts are no longer held nor In the Agency there are: the specific amount of outstanding debt under each a) 4 press officers contract. b) 7 internal communications officers ECGD also has a contingent exposure of £66.8 million c) none relating to performing export contracts, mainly relating d)none to the supply of Airbus aircraft. e) 32 (including 4 from UK Skills). Higher Education: Females In the National Apprenticeship Service there are: a) none Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for b) none Business, Innovation and Skills how many women in c) none (a) Newcastle upon Tyne Central constituency, (b) the d)none North East and (c) England (i) applied and (ii) were accepted onto science, technology, engineering or e) 17 mathematics degree courses at each university in each Letter from John Alty, dated 9 February 2011: of the last three years. [36824] I am responding in respect of the Intellectual Property Office to your Parliamentary Question tabled 02/02/2011, to the Minister Mr Willetts: Information on female applicants to of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. higher education to science, technology, engineering or IPO, an executive agency of BIS has the following communications mathematics degree courses is included in the following staff: - tables and is provided by the Universities and Colleges (a) Press officers - 0 (however IPO currently funds a press Admissions Service (UCAS). officer based in BIS) Figures for Newcastle upon Tyne Central constituency (b) Internal communications officers - 3 (2.5 FTE) and the north-east are not available for each individual (c) External communications officers - 1 institution as numbers are too small. Figures for English (d) Communications strategy officers - 0 domiciles to individual institutions are suppressed in (e) Other communications positions (marketing communications) cases where there are less than five applicants, or less -2 than five accepted applicants.

Female applicants and accepted applicants from England applying for STEM courses by institution (where numbers permit) 2008 2009 2010 Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts

The University of Aberdeen 228 61 250 88 412 80 Aberystwyth University 501 170 537 152 765 209 Anglia Ruskin University 644 185 692 220 760 287 Aston University, Birmingham 1,967 305 1,700 289 2,368 383 Bangor University 1,009 298 1,073 336 1,131 314 University of Bath 2,214 360 2,073 359 2,100 346 303W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 304W

Female applicants and accepted applicants from England applying for STEM courses by institution (where numbers permit) 2008 2009 2010 Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts

Bath Spa University 621 106 591 87 720 116 University of Bedfordshire 567 183 725 253 781 227 Birmingham City University 596 187 987 221 1,219 262 The University of Birmingham 3,233 635 3,583 653 3,911 589 University College Birmingham 126 59 191 51 182 66 Bishop Burton College 62 19 50 18 45 26 Blackburn College 10 21 12 26 49 61 The University of Bolton 589 97 567 143 606 139 Bournemouth University 1,120 242 1,624 349 2,186 301 The University of Bradford 1,233 368 1,307 432 1,376 424 University of Brighton 1,257 264 1,479 291 1,698 329 University of Bristol 3,929 421 3,745 441 3,770 500 University of the West of England, Bristol 1,540 419 1,644 462 2,000 457 Brunel University 2,440 447 2,510 512 2,122 450 Buckinghamshire New University 140 64 201 73 253 60 University of Cambridge 361 99 370 65 379 88 Canterbury Christ Church University 778 192 869 211 919 200 Cardiff University 2,140 423 2,339 443 2,327 471 University of Wales Institute, Cardiff 529 115 542 123 559 121 University of Central Lancashire 1,133 335 1,373 379 1,612 379 University of Chester 1,216 225 1,053 169 1,214 182 University of Chichester 419 82 492 96 611 105 City University 1,418 279 1,634 252 1,718 236 Cornwall College 127 76 147 91 151 94 Coventry University 1,335 356 1,474 418 1,688 437 University of Cumbria 314 98 359 128 331 112 De Montfort University 1,014 294 1,072 318 1,482 314 University of Derby 963 181 1,028 246 1,297 227 Doncaster College 35 22 39 16 47 13 University of Dundee 108 28 147 30 228 26 Durham University 2,210 422 2,111 447 2,234 479 University of East Anglia 1,232 367 1,469 348 2,064 417 University of East London 1,231 476 1,179 516 1,452 529 Edge Hill University 580 168 591 176 754 175 The University of Edinburgh 1,802 254 2,149 245 1,690 90 Edinburgh Napier University 68 10 63 8 117 11 The University of Essex 689 188 771 188 938 214 University of Exeter 2,499 504 2,915 499 2,868 453 University of Glamorgan, Cardiff and Pontypridd 215 48 289 69 417 105 University of Glasgow 403 59 463 76 453 46 Glasgow Caledonian University 43 5 54 5 85 5 The University of Gloucestershire 568 172 634 186 639 163 Goldsmiths (University of London) 875 179 870 135 806 126 University of Greenwich 1,055 209 1,110 213 1,425 333 Harper Adams University College 25 8 35 7 42 5 Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh 142 23 149 40 190 19 University of Hertfordshire 2,055 552 2,248 676 2,759 431 The University of Huddersfield 1,421 338 1,290 357 1,283 353 The University of Hull 1,276 388 1,401 374 1,626 302 Imperial College London 1,342 274 1,273 271 1,222 251 Keele University 974 213 1,024 262 1,338 206 The University of Kent 1,490 364 1,787 390 2,195 450 King’s College London (University of London) 2,099 351 2,255 277 2,398 279 Kingston University 2,288 530 2,269 556 2,672 602 Lancaster University 1,266 277 1,170 291 1,186 318 University of Leeds 4,743 894 4,825 820 4,928 802 Leeds Trinity University College 319 87 379 73 369 74 Leeds Metropolitan University 1,852 381 2,072 335 2,553 367 University of Leicester 2,002 367 1,958 322 2,363 358 University of Lincoln 941 271 1,025 322 1,344 311 305W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 306W

Female applicants and accepted applicants from England applying for STEM courses by institution (where numbers permit) 2008 2009 2010 Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts

The University of Liverpool 2,614 548 2,733 513 3,021 599 Liverpool Hope University 404 53 359 70 481 73 Liverpool John Moores University 1,296 393 1,348 388 1,566 477 London Metropolitan University 880 151 893 119 953 158 London School of Economics and Political Science 93 8 53 14 108 22 (University of London) London South Bank University 1,052 267 1,274 249 1,406 322 Loughborough College 48 27 61 39 57 34 Loughborough University 1,811 419 2,089 341 2,343 374 The University of Manchester 4,228 930 4,478 902 4,428 855 The Manchester Metropolitan University 2,772 545 3,122 595 3,422 674 Medway School of Pharmacy 289 57 354 99 456 105 Middlesex University 879 172 1,059 229 1,264 292 Newcastle University 2,001 356 2,114 407 2,302 441 Newcastle College 29 13 33 19 37 32 Newman University College, Birmingham 239 64 254 52 299 49 University of Wales, Newport 71 7 70 14 61 20 University of Northampton 840 155 891 196 848 210 Northumbria University 1,367 431 1,412 400 1,619 470 Norwich City College of Further and Higher 40 27 46 24 62 34 Education (an Associate College of UEA) The University of Nottingham 4,195 677 4,284 599 4,658 577 Nottingham Trent University 2,008 572 2,258 572 2,905 624 Oxford University 922 289 1,065 310 1,238 290 Oxford Brookes University 982 146 1,116 176 1,277 174 University of Plymouth 1,852 562 1,807 489 1,884 551 UCP Marjon University College Plymouth St 110 27 83 21 98 19 Mark and St John University of Portsmouth 2,308 553 2,405 559 2,867 648 Queen Margaret University , Edinburgh 99 14 105 15 99 5 Queen Mary, University of London 1,217 392 1,725 352 2,102 405 Queen’s University Belfast 112 15 145 16 164 19 The University of Reading 2,027 390 2,169 338 2,337 376 Roehampton University 658 217 706 162 707 222 Royal Holloway, University of London 1,333 306 1,188 288 1,582 282 The University of Salford 1,115 264 1,103 300 1,317 332 The School of Pharmacy (University of London) 615 112 654 116 677 108 The University of Sheffield 2,676 449 3,097 488 3,569 507 Sheffield Hallam University 2,519 578 2,746 610 3,295 547 University of Southampton 3,004 499 3,289 476 3,461 537 Southampton Solent University 551 164 638 147 697 148 University of St Andrews 586 100 582 66 574 82 South East Essex College (partner of the University 24 12 25 13 29 15 of Essex) St George’s, University of London (formerly St 593 102 617 101 751 100 George’s Hospital Medical School) St Mary’s University College, Twickenham 549 129 524 105 526 104 Staffordshire University 913 215 1,012 269 1,138 252 The University of Stirling 145 30 118 24 145 29 The University of Strathclyde 75 10 82 10 121 11 University Campus Suffolk 146 62 134 62 166 70 University of Sunderland 590 214 691 215 738 206 University of Surrey 1,326 215 1,532 247 993 202 University of Sussex 1,565 373 1,530 376 1,814 363 Swansea University 598 126 604 175 861 193 Teesside University 860 308 890 319 1,011 351 Thames Valley University 246 81 238 96 313 150 Truro and Penwith College (Formerly Truro 65 38 78 45 76 43 College) University of the Arts London 209 60 162 44 191 51 University College London (University of London) 2,256 254 2,272 287 2,259 312 307W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 308W

Female applicants and accepted applicants from England applying for STEM courses by institution (where numbers permit) 2008 2009 2010 Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts Applicants Accepts

The University of Warwick 2,562 281 2,226 254 2,367 292 College of West Anglia 32 23 34 27 42 21 University of Westminster 1,144 293 1,096 378 1,231 345 University of Wolverhampton 1,107 273 1,014 343 1,286 320 University of Winchester 336 85 346 72 390 54 University of Worcester 728 168 779 198 933 215 The University of York 2,266 341 2,424 369 2,679 365 York College 17 10 28 17 24 9 York St John University 549 115 588 75 573 68

Female applicants and accepted applicants from Newcastle upon Tyne academic or commercial partner for research and Central constituency, the north- east and England applying for STEM development collaborations. courses Geographical area 2008 2009 2010 UKTI also has a University Liaison Officer who interacts with universities at a senior level to promote Newcastle upon Tyne Applied 102 119 99 international engagement. This includes the potential Central constituency for collaboration with internationally focused companies Accepted 60 65 46 for inward investment or export purposes. Innovation: Manufacturing Industries North East Applied 2,080 2,184 2,354 Accepted 1,422 1,349 1,406 Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many applications to become England Applied 47,823 50,774 55,038 a technology and innovation Centre focused on high Accepted 31,248 32,237 33,223 value manufacturing the Technology Strategy Board Notes to tables: has received. [38735] 1. Includes applicants and accepted applicants to HE courses in FE colleges. 2. Newcastle upon Tyne Central constituency has been identified Mr Willetts: The Technology Strategy Board has using the home postcode regardless of declared area of permanent received 142 registrations of interest from organisations residence. Declared area of permanent residence has been used to interested in forming all or part of the High Value identify the region and country. Manufacturing Technology and Innovation Centre. 3. STEM subjects have been identified using the following subject groups and lines: Money Lenders: Interest Rates Group C: Biological Sciences; Group F: Physical Sciences; Group G: Mathematical and Computer Sciences; Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Group H: Engineering; Innovation and Skills what his policy is on capping the Group J: Technologies; level of interest rates charged by doorstep lenders. B1: Anatomy, Physiology and Pathology; [39310] B2: Pharmacology, Toxicology and Pharmacy; B8: Medical Technology; and D7: Agricultural Sciences. Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation Applicants included in this extraction have applied for at least one and Skills and HM Treasury are currently reviewing the course from these STEM subjects. consumer credit and personal insolvency regime. This is Source: UCAS a thorough review of consumer credit and personal insolvency, looking at all the measures that could be Higher Education: Foreign Investment in UK taken to support people in difficulty and help them resolve their debts, including the impact of any interest Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, rate cap on doorstep lending. A call for evidence made Innovation and Skills what recent discussions he has in connection with the review has recently closed and had with higher education institutions on promoting we are currently considering the substantial number of inward investment; and if he will make a statement. responses received. [38709] Government will make an announcement on next steps in the spring. Mr Willetts: The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills recognises the major contribution Students: Fees and Charges of the higher education sector to attracting high-quality inward investment to the UK. Ministers and officials Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, regularly engage with higher education organisations Innovation and Skills what recent representations he on the topic of international activities and opportunities. has received on tuition fees; and if he will make a On 1 February I addressed a Universities UK and UK statement. [39197] Trade and Investment (UKTI) supported conference on higher education opportunities in Europe. Mr Willetts: Since December, when Parliament approved UKTI’s R and D Partnerships programme is available maximum tuition charges for academic year 2012/13, free of charge to help organisations find the right UK we have received a number of representations on behalf 309W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 310W of students, universities and other organisations. We are Mr Willetts: The Higher Education Funding Council considering these, as well as maintaining our regular is (HEFCE) under a legal duty to consider the financial contacts with bodies representing both institutions and health of those institutions it funds. HEFCE’s internal students, as we move to finalise the higher education Assurance Services are responsible for monitoring financial student support package. dealings with institutions and their overall financial Our next legislative steps to put the new system in health. It undertakes audit work in institutions and place are through clauses in the Education Bill currently assesses institutional risk. before Parliament. These will provide for the introduction Where an institution is identified as at high risk they of new, more progressive, interest rates on the repayment receive intensive expert support and financial assistance of student loans, and also allow us to regulate tuition where appropriate. However, as they are autonomous charges for part-time courses, to which we will be institutions if a university does mismanage its affairs, extending loan support so that eligible part-time students we cannot offer a guarantee of protection. will no longer have to pay for tuition up-front. Supermarkets: Competition WORK AND PENSIONS Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Asbestos Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of the merits of introducing a food prices code adjudicator Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for the dairy industry. [38821] and Pensions how many calls the Health and Safety Executive’s asbestos hotline number received (a) in each Mr Davey: None. In August 2010, the Secretary of of the last five years and (b) in 2011 to date. [38439] State for Business, Innovation and Skills announced that the Government will establish the groceries code Chris Grayling: The Health and Safety Executive adjudicator to enforce the Groceries Supply Code of does not have an asbestos hotline number. Access to Practice (GSCOP). The code covers the groceries supply general health and safety information is provided through chain, including the dairy sector, to large retailers. The its Infoline contact centre service. Government have not considered a specific code of In each of the last five years the number of calls practice to cover food prices for the dairy industry. received concerning asbestos was: UN Special Representative on Business: Human Rights Number of calls received

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, 2006 9,137 Innovation and Skills what his policy is on the proposals 2007 9,705 to the UN by the UN Special Representative on business 2008 24,076 and human rights. [36538] 2009 14,917 2010 12,550 Mr Bellingham: I have been asked to reply. The numbers of calls are high in 2008 and 2009 when The Government welcome the draft guiding principles the Health and Safety Executive ran asbestos awareness developed by Professor Ruggie, the UN Special campaigns. Representative on business and human rights. We believe For 2011 the total number of asbestos related calls they should offer a sure foundation for states and received up to and including 1 February was: businesses to improve their performance with regard to human rights. The Government will consider in due Number of calls received course the impact of the draft principles on domestic legislation, policy practices for businesses operating in 2011 862 the UK and British businesses operating overseas, and implications for our foreign policy and international Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for relations. Work and Pensions how many full-time inspectors are employed in the Health and Safety Executive’s asbestos We have worked closely with Professor Ruggie as he division; and how many he expects to be employed in refines the principles, following his consultations with that division in each of the next five years. [38440] businesses, states and civil society organisations. The guiding principles are due for consideration by the UN Chris Grayling: The Health and Safety Executive Human Rights Council in June 2011 and the UK will (HSE) does not have an ’Asbestos Division’ per se. work to build consensus for their adoption. Further However, relevant HSE inspectors are all appropriately information on Professor Ruggie’s work in his capacity trained and possess the necessary skills and competence as the UN Secretary-General’s Special Representative to be able to deal with asbestos during any interventions on Business and Human Rights is available at: they may undertake. Should specialist resource be required, http://www.business-humanrights.org/SpecialRepPortal/ this is also available within HSE. Home Asbestos: Enforcement Universities Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many (a) prosecutions there Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on were and (b) enforcement and prohibition notices were provisions by his Department to assist universities issued by the Health and Safety Executive regarding under financial pressures and at risk of closure. [39393] asbestos in each of the last five years. [38441] 311W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 312W

Chris Grayling: The number of prosecutions brought of the target audience aware of publicity surrounding and completed by HSE for breaches of asbestos regulations asbestos and 72% aware of specific elements of the in each of the last five years is as follows: press or radio adverts. Crucially 89% of the target audience agreed that the adverts were “aimed at someone Prosecutions like me” and over half of those who saw or heard the advertising claim to have taken more safety precautions 2005-06 15 when working with asbestos. 2006-07 9 2007-08 16 The second wave of national activity was evaluated 2008-09 16 by BMG Research and demonstrates further significant 2009-10 12 uplifts in already high levels of awareness surrounding the risk of asbestos (to 85%). The attitudinal response The number of enforcement (improvement and remained positive with significant uplifts in the proportion prohibition) notices issued by HSE for breaches of agreeing it is “aimed at someone like me” (to 93%) and asbestos regulations in each of the last five years is: that if “got me thinking about may exposure at work” (90%). Outcomes include that nine in 10 of those who Total recognise an element of the campaign report having Improvement Prohibition enforcement taken, or planning to take, some action as a result. notices notices notices Traffic to HSE’s website has been monitored with a 2005-06296190600% increase on page requests compared to a similar 2006-07 67 76 143 period the year before. 2007-08 93 80 173 2008-09 130 91 221 Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 219 124 343 Work and Pensions if he will (a) commission and (b) fund a public information campaign to warn Asbestos: Publicity construction workers of the dangers posed by asbestos following the cancellation of his Department’s Hidden Killer campaign. [38442] Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much was spent on the most recent phase of the Health and Safety Executive’s Chris Grayling: The ‘Hidden Killer’ campaign has Hidden Killer campaign. [38437] not been cancelled. It is currently in a phase of assessment and evaluation to enable HSE to determine the way Chris Grayling: The most recent phase of the Health forward. The web pages, and other materials, are still and Safety Executive’s Hidden Killer campaign ran accessible and available and additional elements are throughout November and early December 2009, with being actively considered by HSE for possible future a further activity in February 2010. The total cost of the delivery. The target audiences for any activity that emerges activity was £1.78 million. from this process will continue to include construction workers especially trades such as plumbers, electricians, Activity included targeted radio and press advertising, joiners, plasterers and decorators. PR activity, stakeholder activity, direct mail and online marketing. Atos Origin Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions by what mechanism the Health and Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for Safety Executive monitored the effectiveness of the Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the first two phases of its Hidden Killer campaign; and cost to his Department of its contract with Atos Healthcare what the findings were. [38438] to carry out work capability assessments for employment and support allowance claims in each of the last two Chris Grayling: The Health and Safety Executive years. [37668] advises Government on matters relating to worker safety and occupational illness. HSE’s evidence is that asbestos is Britain’s biggest industrial killer, responsible for an Chris Grayling: The total cost of the DWP Medical estimated 4,000 deaths per year. HSE’s ‘Asbestos:Hidden Services contract with Atos Healthcare, a division of Killer’ campaign was aimed at tradespeople such as Atos Origin, is in the region of £100 million per annum. plumbers, electricians and joiners who are the group This estimate covers the total number of examinations currently at highest risk from exposure to potentially undertaken across all benefits and also includes costs fatal asbestos fibres. relating to written and verbal medical advice, fixed overheads, administrative costs, investment in new Evidence has been used to inform the Hidden Killer technology and other service improvements. project from the start with independent researchers monitoring the effectiveness of all phases of the campaign. The total amount paid to Atos Healthcare by DWP for the scrutiny, face to face and work focused health Full details of the evaluation on both phases are related assessment reports was in: available on HSE’s website at: 2008-09: £1.7 million http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/hiddenkiller/finding-out- more.htm 2009-10: £24.4 million Continental Research evaluated the first national wave These figures do not include costs relating to fixed of activity (February 2009); their results demonstrated overheads, administrative costs, investment in new the campaign achieved excellent recognition with 80% technology and other service improvements. 313W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 314W

Carbon Monoxide: Poisoning Carers’ Benefits

Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps his Department is taking to and Pensions what recent discussions he has had with reduce the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning from carers’ organisations on the proposed changes in carers’ faulty domestic boiler installation. [38362] benefits; and if he will make a statement. [38166]

Chris Grayling: Legislation requires anyone who installs Maria Miller: The Government recognise that the gas appliances to be on a statutory register. Gas Safe United Kingdom’s six million carers play an indispensable Register operates this registration scheme under an role in looking after family members or friends who agreement with the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). need support. Engineers must demonstrate their competence to join the scheme through the successful completion of We have had discussions with disabled people, their independent assessments and are reassessed every five carers and a broad range of organisations from grass-root years. Gas Safe Register has over 80 inspectors who and user-led organisations to umbrella groups and national carry out risk based inspections of gas work by registered charities, including representatives of Carers UK, on a engineers and since the launch of the scheme on 1 April range of carer issues, including benefits. 2009 over 68,650 such inspections have been completed. The Government are currently considering whether Gas Safe Register also has a dedicated team who investigate changes to carer’s allowance will be necessary to take those who carry out gas work but are not registered. account of the introduction of universal credit and HSE takes enforcement action where breaches of gas provide clearer, more effective support for carers. We safety legislation are identified and around 10% of the will continue to have ongoing discussions with a broad total offences prosecuted by HSE relate to gas safety. range of organisations to ensure carers get the personalised Since 1 April 2010 HSE has prosecuted 34 gas safety support they need with respect to their caring related cases and issued 148 enforcement notices. responsibilities, to have a normal family and community life, fulfil their educational and employment potential HSE and Gas Safe Register also work to raise consumer and maintain good health. awareness of the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning, through awareness raising promotions and media campaigns. Children: Maintenance

Ms Bagshawe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions what steps his Department is taking Work and Pensions how many open cases including to raise the level of awareness of the risks of carbon new claims were added to the Child Support Agency IT monoxide poisoning from faulty domestic boiler system in each of the last three years; and how many installation. [38363] open cases were removed from the system in order to be administered manually in each such year. [37674] Chris Grayling: The Government takes gas safety and awareness of carbon monoxide issues very seriously Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement and provides significant information on websites and in Commission is responsible for the child maintenance published information. The Health and Safety Executive system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner (HSE) advises consumers to always use a Gas Safe to write to the hon. Member with the information registered engineer for all gas work in their home, requested and I have seen the response. including domestic boiler installation, and to ensure Letter from Stephen Geraghty: that any gas appliances are regularly serviced and maintained. Although not a substitute for the correct In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive installation or maintenance of an appliance, HSE also reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child strongly recommends the use of audible carbon monoxide Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance alarms. and Enforcement Commission. In April 2009 HSE launched the Gas Safe Register, You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how the statutory registration scheme for gas engineers. The many open cases including new claims were added to the Child scheme has the strong focus of raising consumer awareness Support Agency IT system in each of the last three years; and of gas safety risks and has undertaken significant how many open cases were removed from the system in order to campaigns, including national TV advertising, coverage be administered clerically in each such year. [37674] on a wide variety of consumer programmes and national The table below shows the number of cases added to the CS2 and regional press and radio, along with regional and computer system each quarter; the number of cases input onto community events. Research by the Gas Safe Register the Agency Clerical Case Database each quarter and the overall has shown that 81% of consumers are aware of gas live and assessed caseload each quarter. safety risks and the Gas Safe Register. Cases entered Cases entered Overall agency HSE and Gas Safe Register continue to work to raise Quarter onto CS2 onto clerical live and assessed awareness of the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning, ending computer system case database caseload including focusing on vulnerable groups. The ’Let’s talk December 45,900 600 1,226,400 gas safety’ campaign focused at the Over 65’s has 2007 recently launched, involving close working with local March 48,100 4,700 1,237,100 ’Age UK’ groups and this will be supplemented throughout 2008 the year with both general and targeted awareness raising June 42,400 3,400 1,263,600 promotions and ongoing media campaigns. 2008 315W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 316W

Many of the cases administered off system have historic debt Cases entered Cases entered Overall agency on the Agency’s main IT systems. These cases are included only Quarter onto CS2 onto clerical live and assessed under “administered clerically” in this table. ending computer system case database caseload

September 28,000 5,100 1,265,200 Overall agency Administered 2008 live and on agency December 20,400 7,300 1,263,500 assessed case Legacy IT Administered 2008 Quarter ending load systems clerically March 24,000 12,500 1,245,000 June 2008 1,263,600 1,227,900 35,700 2009 September 1,265,200 1,225,300 39,900 June 24,200 7,500 1,234,400 2008 2009 December 2008 1,263,500 1,219,000 44,500 September 26,400 11,200 1,219,100 March 2009 1,245,000 1,194,100 50,900 2009 June 2009 1,234,400 1,177,500 56,900 December 22,600 9,300 1,213,100 2009 September 1,219,100 1,155,000 64,100 2009 March 27,500 5,800 1,150,800 2010 December 2009 1,213,100 1,141,200 71,900 June 27,000 5,200 1,150,800 March 2010 1,150,800 1,071,800 78,900 2010 June 2010 1,150,800 1,066,100 84,700 September 28,500 4,400 1,153,900 September 1,153,900 1,065,100 88,900 2010 2010 Notes: Notes: 1. The number of cases added to the CS2 computer system differs 1. A split between cases administered on IT systems and those from the new application intake figures that are published in the administered clerically can only be accurately reflected after March Quarterly Summary of Statistics. The new application intake figures 2008. include applications that may not have resulted in them becoming live 2. The figures above showing the number of cases administered off cases entered on the CS2 computer system. system (clerically) differs from a total clerical case load data figure 2. Cases entered onto the Clerical Case Database include cases that published in the QSS. The total clerical caseload figure in the QSS were initially entered onto the CS2 computer system as well as those includes live and suspended cases. Not all of these form part of the entered directly onto the Clerical Case Database. agency live and assessed caseload figure which is also published in the Many cases that are progressed off system and entered onto QSS. the Agency’s Clerical Case Database are initially added to the I hope you find this answer helpful. CS2 computer system. In most cases where the case goes clerical we do not remove the case from CS2 and we do not track removals from CS2 as a result of going clerical. Some cases go Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for straight onto the clerical case database directly either because Work and Pensions what the findings were for Child they are linked to other clerical cases or because they encounter Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s monitoring technical issues before they are fully created on the CS2 computer and evaluation of the use of deduction orders within system. child maintenance; what conclusions the Commission I hope you find this answer helpful. has reached regarding extension of the use of deduction orders to cover a non-resident parent’s joint bank account; and if he will make a statement. [37936] Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many open cases there were with the Child Support Agency in each of the last three Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement years; and how many such open cases were being Commission is responsible for the child maintenance administered (a) through the agency’s IT system and system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the information (b) manually. [37676] requested and I have seen the response. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child maintenance In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance to write to the hon. Member with the information Commissioner. requested and I have seen the response. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what Letter from Stephen Geraghty: the findings were for Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s monitoring and evaluation of the use of deduction In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the orders within child maintenance; what conclusions the Commission Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive has reached regarding extension of the use of deduction orders to reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child cover a non-resident parent’s joint bank account; and if he will Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance make a statement. [37936] and Enforcement Commission. The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission’s You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how monitoring and evaluation of the use of deduction orders, as a many open cases there were with the Child Support Agency in means of collecting child maintenance payments, has been completed. each of the last three years; and how many such open cases were The final draft of the report has been reviewed and it is expected being administered (a) through the Agency’s IT system and (b) that the results will be published shortly. clerically. [37676] The table below shows the volume of live and assessed cases administered by the Child Support Agency each quarter and of Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work those cases, those administered on the Agency’s main IT systems and Pensions in what proportion of child maintenance as well as those administered off system and recorded on its cases with an assessment and payment scheme was (a) Clerical Case Database. 100 per cent., (b) less than 100 per cent. but more than 317W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 318W

50 per cent., (c) some but less than 50 per cent. and (d) Notes: none of the child maintenance due paid in each of the 1. Cases are counted as having a positive maintenance outcome if last five years. [37937] they have received a payment via the collection service in the quarter or have a maintenance direct agreement in place. 2. Cases receiving maintenance in full includes cases which are fully compliant over the quarter, maintenance direct at the end of the Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement quarter or where no maintenance has been requested in the quarter Commission is responsible for the child maintenance yet some maintenance was received. system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner 3. Cases receiving maintenance in part includes those cases that have paid less than the requested amount each quarter. This will include to write to the hon. Member with the information cases that have paid in full but because of timing issues at the end of a requested and I have seen the response. quarter, the maintenance receipt has not been fully processed by quarter end. Letter from Stephen Geraghty: 4. Cases not receiving maintenance include cases with a maintenance liability that have not received any maintenance in the quarter. In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the 5. Figures after March 2008 include the performance of cases administered Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary off system. of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance I regret that with currently available information it is not Commissioner. possible to answer accurately what proportion of cases paying something but not 100%,paid more or less than 50% of the child You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, in maintenance due. For this reason, information has not been what proportion of child maintenance cases with an assessment provided. Work is currently underway to develop new performance and payment scheme was (a) 100 per cent., (b) less than 100 per measures that will allow us to answer this in the future. cent, but more than 50 per cent., (c) some but less than 50 per I hope you find this answer helpful. cent, and (d) none of the child maintenance due paid in each of the last five years. [37937]

The table below shows the proportion of cases with a positive Departmental Information Officers liability where parents with care have received maintenance in full, the proportion that have received maintenance in part and the proportion of those that have not received any maintenance in Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and each quarter for the past five years. Pensions how many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external communications Percentage Percentage officers, (d) communications strategy officers and (e) receiving receiving Percentage not other positions with a communications remit were employed maintenance maintenance receiving Date in full in part maintenance by (i) his Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public body sponsored by his 2005 Department on the most recent date for which figures December 45 18 37 are available. [38951]

2006 Chris Grayling: The information is as follows: March461837Department for Work and Pensions communications directorate June 46 18 36 Number September 46 18 36 Press officers (including regional 28 December 46 19 36 press) Internal communications officers 33 2007 External communications 88 March461835officers June 46 18 35 Other positions with a 42 communications remit September 49 16 35 December 48 17 35 External communications and communications strategy officers are one and the same role in the DWP 2008 communications directorate. March491833 June 50 18 32 Figures reflect only the number of officers in employment and are not indicative of the full-time equivalent figures September 51 18 31 (FTE). They also include those that are currently on December 50 18 33 leave (maternity, special, adoption etc.) Businesses 2009 Number March512029 June 53 20 28 Pension, Disability and Carers Service September 53 20 27 Internal Communications 19 December 53 22 26 Officers

2010 Jobcentre Plus March591823Internal Communications 6 June 57 20 23 Officers September 57 19 24 319W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 320W

Non-departmental public bodies Full-time Pensions Ombudsman/Pensions Protection Fund ombudsman: Grade Headcount equivalent Nil response Band A/Administrative 188 168.33 The Pension Advisory Service: Nil response Assistant Social Security Advisory Council: Nil response Band B/Administrative Officer 5,865 5,617.91 Band C/Executive Officer 3,253 3,186.71 Number Band D/Higher Executive 36 35.43 Officer Pension Protection Fund Band E/Senior Executive 99 Press officers 2 Officer Internal communications officers 2 Band F/Grade 7 11 10.69 External communications officers 2 Band G/Grade 6 4 4 Senior Civil Service 1 3 2.6 The Pensions Regulator Grand Total 9,369 9,034.67 Press officers 4 The Department’s total staffing figure for the same Internal communications officers 2 period is 112,135 headcount which equates to 100,735 External communications officers 14 full-time equivalent staff. Communications strategy officers 2 Departmental Pay Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission Press officers 4 Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Internal communications officers 10 and Pensions what information his Department holds External communications officers 1 on the number of sub-contracted staff servicing his Department who were not paid at a rate equivalent to Remploy Ltd. or above the London living wage in the latest period for Press officers 2 which figures are available. [34806] Internal communications officers 2 External communications officers 4 Chris Grayling: We believe that there are 530 sub- Communications strategy officers 2 contracted staff servicing the Department in London who are paid at a rate below the London living wage. These comprise of 400 cleaners; 30 caterers and 100 National Employment Savings Trust providing general office services. Press officers 1 Internal communications officers 2 Departmental Public Expenditure External communications officers 6 Communications strategy officers 3 Other positions with a communications remit 16 Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much his Department has spent on hospitality since May 2010. [38527] Health and Safety Executive Press officers 8 Chris Grayling: All expenditure on hospitality is made Internal communications officers 9 in accordance with published departmental guidance External communications officers 5 on financial procedures and propriety, based on principles Communications strategy officers 7 set out in Managing Public Money and the Treasury Other positions with a communications remit 4 Handbook on Regularity and Propriety. Expenditure on hospitality to December 2010 is less Independent Living Fund than £3,000. Communications strategy officers 1 The Department is reviewing all expenditure with a Other positions with a communications remit 2 view to driving out efficiencies and delivering value for money for the taxpayer.

Departmental Manpower Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much his Department has spent on taxis since May 2010. [38529] Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many staff of his Department Chris Grayling: Expenditure on taxis since May 2010, are employed on fixed-term contracts; and what the job has been reduced by 26% against the comparable period title of each is. [38524] last year, as follows:

Chris Grayling: The number of staff employed on a Period Expenditure (£) fixed term contract at 31 December 2010 is shown in the May 2010 to December 2010 1,049,074 following table. For comparison purposes the figures May 2009 to December 2010 1,415,747 represent both headcount and full-time equivalent staff. The Department does not hold details of job titles Percentage reduction 26 centrally.Departmental grades have been provided instead. 321W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 322W

It should be noted that this expenditure includes, This figure is broken down by condition, gender and expenditure to allow access to work for staff with age group as requested, in the tables. disabilities, to enable the DWP to meet its obligations The definitions of each condition are included within under the Disability Discrimination Act. the following regulations; which can be found in the The total expenditure set out above needs to be seen House Library: in the context of a Department with over 100,000 staff based in over 900 locations throughout Great Britain. For terminally ill, the rules are primarily contained in section 72(5) for care component; and section 73(12) for mobility component The Department is reviewing all expenditure with a of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992. view to driving out inefficiencies and delivering value There are minor provisions relating to the terminally ill in regulations for money for the taxpayer. 2(4), 10(6) and 12B(9A)of the Disability Living Allowance Regulations 1991. Disability Living Allowance For Severely Mentally Impaired, double amputee, deaf blind Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for and haemodialysis, the primary powers are 73(3), 73(1), 73(2) and Work and Pensions how many people (a) in each age 72(7) respectively of the Contribution and Benefits Act 1992. group, (b) of each sex, (c) with each disability and (d) The conditions are defined in the Disability Living in total receive an automatic entitlement to disability Allowance Regulations 1991 as follows: living allowance. [39358] Severely mentally impaired—Regulation 12(5)&(6) Maria Miller: The total number of people receiving Double amputee—Regulation 12(1 )(b) DLA as a result of a specific condition under which they are deemed to satisfy conditions of entitlement is Deaf/Blind—Regulation 12(2)&(3) 55,660. Haemodialysis—Regulation 7

Total disability living allowance recipients by primary disabling condition1 and age, May 2010 Great Britain

Automatic entitlement Not Under condition All known 16 16-17 18-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75-84 85-89 90+

Terminally 36,720 — 480 50 310 830 3,160 8,110 16,510 6,070 1,120 70 10 Ill

Severely 16,800 — 5,510 1,200 3,750 2,190 1,610 1,400 810 270 60 — — Mentally Impaired

Double 1,040 — 50 — 50 90 140 180 250 220 60 — — Amputee

Deaf/Blind 570 — 20 10 20 60 70 130 110 100 50 — —

Haemodialysis 530 — 10 — 10 40 80 140 130 80 30 — —

Disability living allowance recipients by primary disabling condition1 and age, May 2010 Great Britain. males Automatic entitlement Not Under condition All known 16 16-17 18-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75-84 85-89 90+

Terminally Ill 18,220 — 250 30 170 380 1,270 3,620 8,540 3,350 590 30 10 Severely 12,030 — 4,310 920 2,730 1,490 1,040 880 470 150 30 — — Mentally Impaired Double 760 — 30 — 40 60 90 130 190 170 50 — — Amputee Deaf/Blind 290 — 10 — 10 40 30 50 60 60 20 — — Haemodialysis 300 — 10 — — 20 40 70 90 40 20 — —

Disability living allowance recipients by primary disabling condition1 and age, May 2010 Great Britain. females Automatic entitlement Not Under condition All known 16 16-17 18-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75-84 85-89 90+

Terminally Ill 18,490 — 230 20 140 460 1,890 4,480 7,980 2,720 530 40 — Severely 4,780 — 1,210 280 1,020 700 570 520 340 120 30 — — Mentally Impaired Double 290— 20—20305050605020—— Amputee 323W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 324W

Disability living allowance recipients by primary disabling condition1 and age, May 2010 Great Britain. females Automatic entitlement Not Under condition All known 16 16-17 18-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65-74 75-84 85-89 90+

Deaf/Blind 280 — 10 10 10 20 40 70 50 30 30 — — Haemodialysis 230 — — — 10 20 40 60 40 40 10 — — 1 In published breakdowns by disabling condition, normal practice is to reallocate terminally ill cases to their underlying medical condition (usually malignant disease). As this question specifically asks about automatic entitlement of which terminal illness makes up the largest group, this reallocation has not been done in this case. Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Totals show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and excludes people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. 3. A primary disabling condition of terminally ill, severely mentally impaired, double amputee, deaf/blind or haemodialysis qualifies an individual for automatic entitlement to disability living allowance. Source: Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate, 100% WPLS

Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Grayling: The information is not held. The Work and Pensions how many people (a) in each age approved health care professional provides advice to group, (b) of each sex, (c) with each disability and (d) the decision maker in relation to the eligibility criteria in total in receipt of disability living allowance state on for ESA. The customer’s doctor provides medical evidence, their application that they had had the illness or usually in the form of a statement of fitness to work, disability for between three and six months. [39359] but this does not relate to the eligibility criteria for ESA. It is therefore not possible to make any comparison Maria Miller: The information requested is not recorded between advice from the health care professional and by the Pensions Disability and Carers Service and is medical evidence from the customer’s doctor. therefore not available. Health and Safety: Heating Customers are asked on the disability living allowance claim form when their help with getting around outdoors or personal care needs first started. This is because Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Work there is no entitlement to the mobility or care components and Pensions how many complaints the Health and respectively, unless a period of three months has elapsed Safety Executive received from employees about heat in during which the conditions of entitlement to one or the workplace in the latest period for which figures are both of these components is satisfied. This qualifying available. [39703] period is in place to ensure the benefit is received by people with longer term disabilities and not those Chris Grayling: The information requested is not collated incapacitated for a short time. centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Information on whether a claimant has an illness or disability for between three and six months is not relevant Housing Benefit for the purposes of the current assessment and so is not recorded. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many local authority housing benefit Disability Living Allowance: Mobility staff he expects to transfer into his Department under Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Margaret Curran: To ask the Secretary of State for Regulations 2006 rules; and when he expects such transfers Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the to take place. [38684] number of people in receipt of disability living allowance who use aids and adaptations to improve their mobility. Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions [39357] will be responsible for organising the delivery of universal credit. We have not yet finalised the detail and therefore Maria Miller: Information about aids and adaptations the impact on organisations currently delivering benefits is requested on the disability living allowance claim that universal credit will replace. In respect of housing, form, however this information may relate to either the we are working closely with local authorities and the care or mobility component or both components. housing sector as our plans develop. This information requested is not collated centrally Incapacity Benefit and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Employment and Support Allowance and Pensions if he will assess the relationship between the incidence of emergency hospital admissions and Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for the number of (a) incapacity benefit claimants and (b) Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the unemployed people in an area. [38726] average frequency with which an approved healthcare professional’s advice to a decision maker determining Maria Miller: The Department has not assessed the eligibility for employment and support allowance relationship between the incidence of emergency hospital differs from that of the customer’s doctor in the latest admissions and the number of incapacity benefits claimants period for which figures are available. [37869] nor unemployed people. We also have no plans to do so. 325W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 326W

Industrial Health and Safety Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995. The following table provides a breakdown Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of fatal injuries to workers and members of the public, and Pensions what the causes were of fatal accidents in by the kind of accident recorded for the incident. The the workplace in each of the last five years. [39305] data cover the period 2005-06 to 2009-10. Chris Grayling: Notifications of workplace fatal injuries occurring in Great Britain are made under RIDDOR—the

Fatal injuries to workers and members of the public, 2005-06 to 2009-101 Kind of accident 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-101

Workers Contact with moving machinery 21 13 17 20 12 Struck by moving, including flying/falling, object 34 41 37 27 25 Struck by moving vehicle 38 30 38 25 22 Strike against something fixed or stationary 6 8 10 8 5 Injured while handling, lifting or carrying 1 7 2 1 1 Slips, trips or falls on same level 6 4 3 5 5 Falls from a height, of which: 48 52 55 39 38 —up to and including 2 metres 10 9 8 3 5 —over 2 metres 26 37 43 29 25 —height not stated 12 6 4 7 8 Trapped by something collapsing/overturning 11 19 17 20 15 Drowning or asphyxiation 3 16 7 4 2 Exposure to, or contact with, a harmful substance 7 5 1 2 2 Exposure to fire 4 1 8 — — Exposure to an explosion 4 5 3 3 1 Contact with electricity or an electrical discharge 11 18 10 7 3 Injured by an animal 2 11 4 1 4 Acts of violence 1 3 7 4 1 Other kind of accident 12 4 11 7 10 Injuries where cause not notified 8 10 3 6 6 Total 217 247 233 179 152

Members of the public Contact with moving machinery — 1 — — 2 Struck by moving, including flying/falling, object 2 8 4 8 4 Struck by moving vehicle 8 12 7 4 5 Strike against something fixed or stationary 3 — 1 5 5 Injured while handling, lifting or carrying - — 1 — — Slips, trips or falls on same level 17 7 12 8 9 Falls from a height, of which: 38 46 22 40 23 —up to and including 2 metres 9 11 8 9 7 —over 2 metres 11 11 2 9 9 —height not stated 18 24 12 22 7 Trapped by something collapsing/overturning — 1 1 — — Drowning or asphyxiation 7 14 9 18 12 Exposure to, or contact with, a harmful substance 3 3 7 3 2 Exposure to fire — 3 — 5 3 Exposure to an explosion — — 1 — — Contact with electricity or an electrical discharge 5 11 5 8 6 Injured by an animal 4 3 - 4 3 Acts of violence 2— 2— 2— 2— 2— Other kind of accident 312 303 297 321 318 Injuries where cause not notified 2 3 4 2 1 Total 401 415 371 426 393 1 Provisional. 2 Physical injuries resulting from acts of violence suffered by people at work are reportable under RIDDOR, but physical injuries resulting from acts of violence suffered by members of the public are not. Note: Further background is detailed in the ‘Special Points’ section. 327W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 328W

Minimum Wage Steve Webb: The available information is in the following table: Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Table 1: Average amount of weekly Basic State Pension for new and Pensions what assessment he has made of the claimants at State Pension age (£, cash terms) as at March 2018 effects on the self-employed of assuming income at the £ national minimum wage for the purposes of assessing Male 122 entitlement to universal credit. [37754] Female 109 Notes: Chris Grayling: The self-employed, like other employees, 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest £1. will benefit from improved incentives in universal credit 2. Award relates to the average weekly amount of Basic State Pension to increase their working hours and earnings. At the in payment to someone claiming Basic State Pension at State Pension same time, once established in work, we would expect age in a particular year. They exclude those above State Pension age them to see a reasonable income from their activity and receiving a deferred claim. become less reliant on benefits. 3. Figures do not include Graduated Retirement Benefit. 4. Figures include claimants living overseas. The impact of a minimum floor of assumed income in universal credit will depend on the manner and Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Work circumstances in which it is applied. We are still exploring and Pensions (1) what the average forecast basic state these issues and are therefore unable to provide an pension entitlement is for a (a) woman and (b) man assessment of its likely effects at this stage. retiring in 2016; [39362] (2) what the average forecast basic state pension Mortgages: Government Assistance entitlement is for a (a) woman and (b) man retiring in 2011. [39363] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer to the hon. Steve Webb: The information available is in the following Member for Bridgend of 30 November 2010, Official table. Report, column 795W,on mortgages: government assistance, Average amount of weekly basic state pension for new claimants at what representations his Department has received from state pension age mortgage lenders on their ability to (a) freeze the £ cash terms mortgage accounts of claimants of support for mortgage March 2011 March 2016 interest and (b) apply a standard interest rate for a fixed period; and if he will make a statement. [31351] Male 93 111 Female 84 101 Steve Webb: We have spoken to the Council of Mortgage Notes: Lenders and also lenders themselves. The Council recently 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest £1. wrote to Ministers with their views. We will consider 2. Award relates to the average weekly amount of basic state pension in payment to someone claiming basic state pension at state pension this, along with other representations, as we continue to age in a particular year. They exclude those above state pension age look at a number of options for reform of support for receiving a deferred claim. homeowners. 3. Figures do not include graduated retirement benefit.

Pensions Redundancy: Asbestos

Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions what the average additional basic state Work and Pensions how much funding previously allocated pension entitlement is for a (a) woman and (b) man to the Health and Safety Executive’s Hidden Killer retiring in 2011. [39360] campaign has been reallocated to fund redundancies. [38600] Steve Webb: The information available is in the following table. Chris Grayling: I can confirm that no funds have Average amount of weekly state second pension/state earnings related reallocated from HSE’s Communications budget to fund pension scheme for new claimants at state pension age redundancies. HSE is currently assessing progress on £ cash terms the Hidden Killer campaign to date, with materials and March 2011 information still available online. Tackling asbestos-related disease remains a priority for HSE in our communications Male 30 activity and enforcement work. Female 19 Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest £1. Social Security Benefits 2. Award relates to the average weekly amount of state second pension/state earnings related pension scheme in payment to someone claiming at state pension age in a particular year, and exclude those Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for above state pension age receiving a deferred claim. Work and Pensions if he will estimate the (a) reduction 3. Figures do not include graduated retirement benefit. in the number of (i) claimants and (ii) benefit spending, (b) additional administrative cost and (c) overall change Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for in the level of revenue to the Exchequer of completing a Work and Pensions what the average forecast basic new work capability assessment in respect of employment state pension entitlement is for a (a) woman and (b) and support allowance every (A) year and (B) two man retiring in 2018. [39361] years. [38673] 329W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 330W

Chris Grayling: A key factor in determining eligibility Disability living allowance (DLA) recipients in Kilmarnock and for employment and support allowance is the work Loudoun parliamentary constituency with a diagnosis of ’Arthritis’ at capability assessment (WCA). The WCAs are carried the dates shown out by health care professionals employed by Atos As at May each year Healthcare. Claimants attend regular WCAs, based on 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 the prognosis given by the health care professional at DLA 1,200 1,200 1,200 1,200 1,200 their original, or last assessment—at intervals which Notes: vary from a minimum of 3 months and maximum of 1. DLA figures are from 5% sample data uprated to 100% proportions. two years, dependant on the nature of the individual’s Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 100. condition. This ensures that people are in the correct 2. The preferred statistics on benefits are now derived from 100% data group and receiving the right support as their capabilities sources. However, the 5% sample data still provides some detail not yet available from the 100% data sources, in particular, more complete change. information on the disabling condition of DLA claimants. DWP The information requested is not available and could recommends that, where the detail is only available on the 5% sample be calculated only at disproportionate cost. data, or disabling condition (DLA) is required, the proportions derived should be scaled up to the overall 100% total for the benefit. These figures have been scaled up to the overall total, by the application Social Security Benefits: Medical Examinations of a single rating factor therefore subtotals based on uprated 5% data may differ from 100% data because of sampling variation in the 5% Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work sample. and Pensions how many decisions on benefit appeals 3. Caseload totals show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and excludes people with entitlement where the payment by customers in north east Scotland were outstanding has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. (a) prior to the reassessment trial and (b) at the end of 4. ’Osteoarthritis’ diagnosis is included within the category of ’Arthritis’. the trial period. [37630] 5. A diagnosed medical condition does not mean that someone is automatically entitled to DLA. Entitlement is dependent on an Chris Grayling: The latest available data show that, as assessment of how much help someone needs with personal care at September 2010, the total number of benefit appeals and/or mobility because of their disability. held for Scotland is 22,631, of which 13,846 relate to 6. Prior to May 2010 the Westminster parliamentary constituencies for 2005 have been used. employment and support allowance and incapacity benefit. Source: Information on appeals is not available at individual Department for Work and Pensions, Information Directorate area level. Figures for the IB reassessment trial are not available Telephone Services as the trial is still under way. It is too early to provide information on the numbers of customers who have Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work asked to appeal against their decision as not all customers and Pensions if he will estimate the average length of a have completed their reassessment journey. Initial call, including the time spent on hold, to his Department’s information on the trial outcomes and evaluation will 0800 2888 777 number for contacting ATOS in relation be made available to customer representative groups to work capability assessments. [37870] and other stakeholders at the end of the month. Chris Grayling: Atos Healthcare has confirmed that Social Security Benefits: Osteoarthritis the current average call length including hold is two minutes 49 seconds. The timing is within agreed contract Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work standard but work is ongoing to help Atos improve and Pensions how many people in Kilmarnock and upon this. Loudoun constituency successfully claimed benefits for osteoarthritis in each of the last five years. [39366] Work Capability Assessment

Maria Miller: The information requested is contained Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in the following tables. and Pensions what estimate he has made of the average Incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance (IB/SDA) and amount paid to approved healthcare professionals for employment support allowance (ESA) recipients in Kilmarnock and carrying out the medical services element of the work Loudoun parliamentary constituency with a diagnosis of ’Other [37866] Arthritis’ at the dates shown capability assessment. As at May each year Chris Grayling: Information relating to the payments 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 paid to approved health care professionals for delivery IB/SDA 140 140 130 120 100 of the medical services element of the work capability ESA n/a n/a n/a n/a 10 assessment is commercially sensitive and release of the Notes: information would prejudice the interests of Atos 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals may not sum due to Healthcare and the Department’s future dealings with rounding. Atos Healthcare or other service providers. 2. Causes of incapacity are based on the International Classification of Diseases, 10th Revision, published by the World Health Organisation. 3. ’Osteoarthritis’ diagnosis is included within the category of ’Other Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Arthritis’. and Pensions with reference to his Department’s document 4. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance ESA214 - The Work Capability Assessment, page 17, what (ESA) from October 2008. estimate he has made of the average time which elapses 5. ESA figures by diagnosis are only available from February 2010. between a customer’s initial work capability assessment 6. Prior to May 2010 the Westminster parliamentary constituencies for 2005 have been used. and a further assessment; and how many customers Source: have been required to undergo more than one work DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS capability assessment since its introduction. [37871] 331W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 332W

Chris Grayling: Employment and support allowance Chris Grayling: The administration of Jobcentre Plus (ESA) was introduced in October 2008. A key factor in is a matter for the chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, determining eligibility for ESA is the work capability Darra Singh. I have asked him to provide the hon. assessment (WCA). The WCA is carried out by health Member with the information requested. care professionals employed by Atos Healthcare. Letter from Darra Singh: Following the initial WCA, those who are placed on The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question, ESA are given a provisional date for reassessment via a with reference to his Department’s document ESA214—The Work further WCA. The timing of this is determined by the Capability Assessment page 15, what medical training is provided nature of their health condition(s). to a decision maker to allow him or her to consider any evidence The average time between the initial WCA and the of a significant change in the customer’s medical condition in the light of the ending of the requirement for the customer’s doctor first repeat WCA is just under 10 months. This is based to issue any further medical certificates following the completion on data from 66,300 ESA claims, starting between of a work capability assessment. This is something that falls October 2008 and May 2010. These only include people within the responsibilities delegated to me as Chief Executive of who have had two or more completed WCAs relating to Jobcentre Plus. the same ESA claim. Decision makers do not receive formal medical training. The The above data come from benefit claims data held role of a decision maker is to apply the law, on the balance of by the Department for Work and Pensions and functional probabilities, based on the available evidence. Where evidence of assessment data sourced from Atos Healthcare. The a change in the customer’s medical condition is received, the decision maker must consider whether this change could lead to a data have been rounded to the nearest 100. change in the award of ESA. Where the nature of the change means that the effect on the award is not clear, advice can be Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work sought from Health Care Professionals employed by ATOS and Pensions with reference to page 6 of ESA214—The Healthcare. These Health Care Professionals provide decision Work Capability Assessment, how many healthcare makers with expert advice on medical questions. Decision makers professionals provisionally approved at stage 3 have are provided with detailed guidance on the nature of the advice subsequently been removed from the training process. that can be provided and when and how to seek such advice. [37872] Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Chris Grayling: Seven health care professionals who and Pensions with reference to page 6 of ESA214—The completed stages one and two of training failed to Work Capability Assessment, how many approved receive full approval in 2010. healthcare professionals were withdrawn from the work capability assessment process for failing to continue to Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work satisfy the required quality standards in the latest period and Pensions with reference to page 6 of ESA214—The for which figures are available. [37876] Work Capability Assessment, by what criteria the satisfactory standard for the purpose of the stage 2 Chris Grayling: One healthcare professional had their written assessment of medical knowledge is determined. approval to complete ESA assessments revoked because [37873] they failed to continue to satisfy the required quality Chris Grayling: Stage 2 of the ESA approval process standards in 2010. is a multiple choice examination. The pass mark is 85%. Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions with reference to his Department’s document and Pensions with reference to page 6 of ESA214—The ESA214—The Work Capability Assessment, page 5, Work Capability Assessment, what criteria are used to what estimate he has made of the average length of time determine whether an approved healthcare professional an approved healthcare professional spends completing continues to satisfy the required quality standards. stage 1—The prescribed training course. [37879] [37874] Chris Grayling: Stage one of ESA training consists of Chris Grayling: Atos Healthcare has an audit programme two elements: for all health care professionals developed in conjunction 1. Pre-course reading—the time taken is dependent on the with and monitored by the DWP. This consists of a individual healthcare professional nationally statistically significant programme of random 2. A programme of face to face trainer led training which audit supported by a rolling programme of individual takes: audit and where appropriate, individual targeted audit. 6 days for new entrant doctors In addition, the number of cases that are returned by decision makers for rework are monitored for each 15 days for new entrant nurses individual health care professional. 20 days for new entrant physiotherapists.

Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions with reference to his Department’s and Pensions what representations he has received on document ESA214—The Work Capability Assessment, his Department’s review of the work capability assessment page 15, what medical training is provided to a decision published in March 2010 from (a) the Social Security maker to allow him or her to consider any evidence of Advisory Committee, (b) charities and (c) other a significant change in the customer’s medical organisations; what the content was of such representations; condition in the light of the ending of the requirement what plans he has to implement the findings of the for the customer’s doctor to issue any further medical review; and what the relationship is between such plans certificates following the completion of a work and his plans for implementation of the findings of the capability assessment. [37875] Harrington Review. [39324] 333W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 334W

Chris Grayling: The Department-led Review of the Work Capability Assessment: Atos Work Capability Assessment (WCA) was published on 29 March 2010. It proposed a number of changes to the Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for WCA, including expanding the Support Group for Work and Pensions whether (a) his Department and claimants with severe disability due to a mental health (b) Atos provide any incentives to find claimants fit for condition and making greater provision for individuals work. [38596] awaiting or between courses of chemotherapy. Following discussions with the Department, the Social Chris Grayling: The medical services agreement between Security Advisory Committee consulted with a wide Atos Healthcare and the Department for Work and range of disability organisations on the changes and Pensions does not include any provisions either from issued a report on 14 October 2010. The Department the Department or from Atos Healthcare to incentivise has considered the Committee’s report and will publish health care professionals to find claimants undergoing its response shortly. the WCA fit for work, and nor would we wish to do so. We will implement the changes proposed by the It should be noted, however that all decisions on Department-led Review in Spring 2011, ensuring that benefit entitlement are made by DWP decision makers they are in place as we start to re-assess individuals and not by Atos Healthcare professionals. Entitlement currently in receipt of incapacity benefits. is determined by the Department’s decision makers and is based on all available evidence, including that provided The Department-led Review is part of an ongoing by the claimant. Decision makers are rightly impartial process of improvement to the WCA. Taken together and also not incentivised to find claimants under going with the improvements we are making following Professor the WCA fit for work. Harrington’s Independent Review these changes represent important and ongoing progress in creating a fairer and more accurate assessment. HOME DEPARTMENT Jon Cruddas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will postpone the introduction of the Immigration Controls new work capability assessment to enable arrangements to take full account of the recommendations of Professor Malcolm Harrington’s review that he has accepted. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the [38728] Home Department what estimate she has made of the number of persons who have been in the UK in breach of immigration controls for a period exceeding (a) one Chris Grayling: We believe that the principles of the year, (b) two years, (c) three years, (d) four years, (e) work capability assessment (WCA) are right, but that five years, (f) six years, (g) seven years, (h) eight years, the system which we inherited contained some flaws (i) nine years and (j) 10 years. [38905] that risked undermining its effectiveness. We have therefore moved swiftly to put those right. Damian Green: It is not possible to accurately quantify We welcome the first independent review of the WCA, the number of people currently in the UK in breach of led by Professor Malcolm Harrington. This is a thorough immigration controls, as some deliberately evade review that has reviewed a substantial amount of evidence. immigration control in order to remain in the country As a result, Professor Harrington has come forward illegally. with a wide range of far reaching and challenging Illegal immigration puts huge pressure on the public proposals which the Government fully support. purse at a time when the country can least afford it. We are committed to taking forward the review’s Together with the police and the Serious Organised recommendations so that we can make the system fairer Crime Agency the UK Border Agency will continue to and more effective. The Government response to Professor make life as difficult as possible for those who cheat the Harrington’s review sets out how and when we will immigration system. implement the recommendations of the review, almost all of which will be in place in time for the national Asylum roll-out of the incapacity benefits reassessment programme. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many immigrants who have Work Capability Assessment: Appeals entered the UK illegally claimed asylum following detection in each year for which figures are available; how many of those were granted asylum; how many of those were Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for refused permission to remain in the UK and asked to Work and Pensions how many people whose work leave the UK; and how many left the UK in each year. capability assessment initially found them fit for work [38911] had their assessments overturned upon appeal and were found unfit for work in the latest period for which Damian Green: In answering this question we have figures are available. [38597] interpreted illegal immigrants as individuals who have been served papers as immigration offenders, prior to Chris Grayling: I refer the hon. Member for North claiming asylum. East Derbyshire to the written answer I gave her on 3 The information requested is shown in the following February 2011, Official Report, column 902W. table: 335W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 336W

Drugs: Bolivia 2008 2009 2010 Claimed asylum 16,998 13,356 9,827 Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the following 1, 2 Home Department pursuant to the answer of 26 January detection 2011, Official Report, column 344W, on Bolivia: drugs, 1, 2, 3 Granted 4,528 3,117 2,224 whether the Bolivian Government’s amendment to the Refused1, 2, 4 9,583 7,612 5,784 1961 UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs sought Other1, 2, 5 2,887 2,627 1,819 to remove the ban on coca leaf chewing rather than to 1, 2 Total Removed 3,229 2,529 1,536 remove coca leaf as an illicit drug. [38887] 1 Data are for individuals served papers as immigration offenders, who subsequently claimed asylum in 2008, 2009, and 2010. James Brokenshire [holding answer 7 February 2011]: 2 Data relates to the main applicants only. 3 Data relates to the number granted asylum (including The Government believe that to remove the ban on coca Humanitarian Protection and Discretionary Leave) at first decision. leaf chewing would legitimise coca production and, 4 Data relates to the number refused asylum at first decision. therefore, its effect would be to remove coca leaf as an 5 Data relates to Other outcomes (e.g. as yet unconcluded cases, illicit drug. withdrawn by applicant, withdrawn absconder, applicant deceased, applicant left UK, Third Country action accepted.) Electronic Tagging Notes: 1. All figures quoted are internal management information only and are subject to change. Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home 2. This information has not been quality assured under National Department what assessment she has made of the Statistics protocols. effectiveness of the Jtrack programme in tracking offenders; and if she will make a statement. [38814] Carbon Monoxide: Poisoning James Brokenshire: JTrack is a national web-based IT Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the system to enable all 43 police forces in England and Home Department how many deaths from carbon Wales and local partner agencies to monitor, track and monoxide poisoning in domestic premises of each type review their locally identified prolific and other priority of tenure there were per 100,000 households in each of offenders across the Criminal Justice System. the last 15 years. [38594] The system is funded centrally by the Home Office and is managed by the National Police Improvement Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. Agency (NPIA). We are also working with the Association The information requested falls within the responsibility of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) to ensure that the of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority system continues to meet local needs particularly in the to reply. context of the development of local Integrated Offender Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: Management (IOM) approaches. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I The integrity, confidentiality and availability of JTrack have been asked to reply to your recent question asking: has been fully tested through an accredited IT healthcheck. How many deaths from carbon monoxide poisoning in domestic There has been no national assessment of the effectiveness premises of each type of tenure there were per 100,000 households of the system in tracking offenders as data are managed in each of the last 15 years. (38594) locally. The table provides the number of deaths where the toxic effect of carbon monoxide was the cause of death by local authority Illegal Immigrants (Table 2), for England and Wales, from 1995 to 2009 (the latest year available). A copy of Table 2 has been placed in the House of Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Commons library. Department how many vehicles screened by port operators Mortality statistics are produced from information recorded at or authorities in other EU member states were later death registration. Although the place of usual residence of the found in the UK to have been used to transport illegal deceased and the place of death are recorded, tenancy arrangements immigrants into the UK in each year for which figures are not, so it is not possible to provide figures by domestic [38908] premises of each type of tenure. are available. Damian Green: In conjunction with the Port Authority, Deportation: Illegal Immigrants Calais Chamber of Commerce, (CCC) and our contractors the UK Border Agency checks UK bound vehicles by Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for the means of a multi-layered regime, utilising a combination Home Department how many illegal immigrants were of detection technologies in order to screen 100% of removed in (a) October, (b) November and (c) December vehicles for the presence of clandestines. 2010. [38986] The Calais Chamber of Commerce supply statistical information to the UK Border Agency on the number Damian Green: The Home Office publishes statistics of vehicles searched, however all of the information is on the number of persons removed or departed voluntarily supplied and owned by them and is commercial in from the UK on a quarterly and annual basis, which are confidence. available from the Library of the House and the Home Office’s Research, Development and Statistics website Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home at: Department how many freight vehicles were searched www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum-stats.html by the UK Border Agency for the purpose of detecting Quarter 4 2010 and annual 2010 figures will be published persons attempting to enter the UK illegally in each on 24 February 2011. year for which figures are available. [38910] 337W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 338W

Damian Green: At the Juxtaposed controls of Calais, April 2010 to Coquelles, Dunkirk and Boulogne the UK Border Agency April 2009 to December screened in excess of 1.7 million vehicles throughout Region March 2010 2010 Total 2006, over 1.8 million in 2007, in excess of 1.7 million in 2008, and over 1.5 million in both 2009 and 2010. North East, 985 655 1,640 Yorkshire and Humber Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the North West 579 589 1,168 Home Department how many illegal immigrants were Scotland and 456 477 933 detected entering the UK at each port in each year for Northern Ireland which figures are available; and how each such case was Wales and South 789 528 1,317 disposed of. [38914] West Total 7,507 5,741 13,248 Damian Green: Between 1 January 2008 and 31 December 2010, 31,139 clandestine entrants were detected by border Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the force officers at the UK border. Home Department what her most recent estimate is of An annual breakdown is provided in the following the number of people who are in the UK beyond the table. limit of their visa entitlement. [38917]

Number of clandestine entrants Damian Green: It is not possible to accurately quantify detected at UK Border the number of overstayers in the UK as some deliberately evade immigration control in order to remain in the 2008 13,106 country illegally. 2009 13,129 2010 4,904 Illegal Immigrants: Asylum Total 31,139 Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home These figures are based on locally collated management Department what the average cost of processing a case information. They are not subject to the detailed checks involving (a) an illegal immigrant and (b) an asylum that apply for National Statistics publications. The data seeker whose application for asylum is refused was in are provisional and subject to change. We have not each year for which figures are available. [38916] included inland detections of clandestine entrants because these entrants have by definition evaded the UK border Damian Green: The UK Border Agency has not control, nor detections made by overseas authorities at previously collected these data, but since I became the juxtaposed controls in France and Belgium. Minister for Immigration, I have asked the agency to show a greater focus on productivity and these, or To provide the outcomes or conclusions of individual similar, data will be more readily available in the future. cases would mean examining individual case records at disproportionate cost. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many (a) illegal immigrants and (b) Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home asylum seekers whose application for asylum was refused Department how many illegal immigrants were detected have been allowed to remain in the UK by (i) ministerial in each (a) local authority area, (b) county and (c) or other administrative decision, (ii) as a consequence region in each year for which figures are available. of an appeal to a tribunal and (iii) as a result of an [38915] appeal through the courts made predominantly, entirely or partly on human rights grounds. [38918] Damian Green: The records kept by the UK Border Agency regarding the arrest of illegal immigrants breaks Damian Green: We have interpreted illegal immigrants down the figures by region. The data, for financial years to mean individuals who have been served papers as 2009-10 and 2010-11 (up to December), are in the immigration offenders, and refused asylum seekers to following table. mean failed asylum seekers. Refused individuals who have been granted leave to remain by the Government, It is not possible to disaggregate these figures by local has been interpreted as individuals granted humanitarian authority and county without incurring a disproportionate protection or discretionary leave. cost, as to determine this would require the manual The information requested is shown in the following examination of each record, to ensure their accuracy. table. The figures provided are sourced from management information tools; they are not quality assured under 2008 2009 2010 National Statistics protocols and are subject to change. Immigration offenders 37,296 34,738 20,934 served papers1, 3 April 2010 to 1, 3, 4 April 2009 to December Granted HP/DL 2,156 1,754 705 Region March 2010 2010 Total Appeal allowed1, 3, 5 268 226 106 HR appeal allowed1, 3, 164 166 93 London and 3,287 2,541 5,828 6 South East Midlands and 1,411 950 2,361 East Failed asylum seekers2 15,737 15,941 11,116 ,3 339W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 340W

Offences against Children: Care Homes 2008 2009 2010 Granted HP/DL2, 3, 4 2,307 2,151 1,032 Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for the Appeal allowed2, 3, 5 2,825 3,616 1,719 Home Department what recent assessment she has made HR appeal allowed2, 3, 2,410 3,116 1,547 of cases involving the sexual grooming of girls from 6 children’s homes; and if she will make a statement. 1 Data are for individuals served papers as immigration offenders, in [38333] 2008, 2009, and 2010. 2 Data are for individuals refused asylum based on initial decision, in 2008, 2009, and 2010. James Brokenshire: No specific assessment has yet 3 Data relate to main applicants only. been carried out of cases of this kind. However, the 4 Data relate to individuals refused, but allowed permission to Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre remain in the UK by the Government on the grounds of have recently begun to conduct a thematic assessment humanitarian protection (HP) and discretionary leave (DL) at initial decision. HP and DL replaced exceptional leave to remain from 1 of the nature and scale of child sexual exploitation in April 2003. the UK as a whole. The results of the study will be 5 Data relate to individuals who were granted leave following a published in due course. successful appeal. 6 Data relate to individuals who were granted leave following a successful appeal on human rights grounds. This is a subset of appeal allowed data. LEADER OF THE HOUSE Note: All figures quoted are internal management information only and Departmental Information Officers are subject to change. This information has not been quality assured under National Statistics protocols. Mr MacNeil: To ask the Leader of the House how Immigration Controls many (a) press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) external communications officers, (d) Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the communications strategy officers and (e) other positions Home Department how much her Department spent with a communications remit were employed by (i) his on the operation of border controls (a) in the UK and Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- (b) elsewhere in each of the last 30 years. [38912] departmental public body sponsored by his Department on the most recent date for which figures are available. Damian Green: Detailed financial records are only [38962] held for the last six years. The following information reflects the costs of the UK border agency border force Sir George Young: The Office of the Leader of the and its antecedents. House of Commons is an integral part of the Cabinet Border force resource cost Office. £ million The Deputy Leader and I share one assigned press Total UK Europe officer, who is employed by Cabinet Office Communications Group and will be included in the answer given by the 2009-10 466.069 398.059 68.010 Minister for the Cabinet Office. 2008-09 229.765 173.104 56.661 2007-08 216.514 163.414 53.100 2006-07 189.953 143.963 45.990 2005-06 175.697 — — DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER 2004-05 150.482 — — Alternative Vote: Referendums Immigration: Appeals Philip Davies: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the what meetings he has had with members of the campaign Home Department what the length of time was of the team supporting a Yes vote in the proposed referendum 20 longest-running immigration appeals cases concerning on the alternative vote; and how many such meetings have taken place in premises owned by Government a single individual. [38906] departments. [37606] Damian Green: The Home Department does not record statistics on the individual time scales of all The Deputy Prime Minister: For reasons of diary appeals. management and logistics I have had two meetings on official premises with representatives of the campaign The longest-running immigration appeals cases are team supporting a Yes vote in the proposed referendum cases that proceed through the court system to the on the Alternative Vote. Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court. There are no time limits for cases to be heard or judgments to be handed down at these courts. The length of time an appeal takes may be extended further should it be EDUCATION referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union. For the first two quarters of 2010-11 70,300 immigration Children: Asthma appeals were received by the Tribunal Service and during the same period 73 appeals proceeded to the Court of Stephen McPartland: To ask the Secretary of State Appeal, while four were determined at the Supreme for Education what information his Department holds Court. on (a) the number of children reported to have 341W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 342W experienced an asthma attack at school in the last 12 2010, is to work with local authorities to develop a plan months and (b) the number of such children who were to increase voluntary and community sector involvement hospitalised in consequence. [38716] with children’s centres. We will be working with local authorities and other early years partners to co-produce Paul Burstow: I have been asked to reply. this plan with them. The hospital episode statistics show that there were 24,217 admissions to hospital of patients aged 0-14 Departmental Domestic Visits suffering from asthma in the year ending March 2010. We do not know how many of these resulted from Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for asthma attacks in schools, as we do not collect school-based Education what meetings, visits or other engagements information. relating to her Ministerial duties the Minister of State for Children and Families has attended since her Children: Autism appointment; what the date and time was of each such engagement; and who attended each such engagement. Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for [31965] Education what recent assessment he has made of levels of understanding of the requirements of young Sarah Teather: I have had many meetings with individuals people with autism among the children’s workforce. and organisations and have attended many official [25769] engagements relating to Government business as Minister of State for Children and Families. To provide the Sarah Teather: We are committed to giving every detailed information requested would incur disproportionate child, and young person, the best possible start in life cost. and recognise the importance of high quality teaching particularly for those with special educational needs Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for (SEN). This is vital if they are to achieve their potential. Education how many meetings, visits or other engagements We know that currently there are over 56,000 schoolchildren relating to the Ministerial duties of the Minister of with an autistic spectrum disorder. I believe that local State for Children and Families have been cancelled authorities are best placed to assess the skills and expertise since May 2010; with whom each such engagement was of those who teach pupils with SEN and to develop to be held; what the date was of each such engagement; their own plans to improve the quality of provision, and (a) when and (b) for what reasons each such working with schools and parents to ensure that the engagement was cancelled. [31966] necessary expertise is in place in their area. We expect all local authorities to provide support for children with Sarah Teather: Conflicting diary pressures and urgent special educational needs and we will work with them to parliamentary business often makes it necessary to cancel ensure that there is sufficient high-quality provision. meetings, visits or official engagements at very short To support the understanding of the work force in notice but endeavour to keep this to a minimum. The relation to SEN we have published resources for use in reasons for such cancellations are not recorded by the initial teacher training and Continuing Professional Department. Development through the Inclusion Development Programme. A specific resource focusing on supporting Education Maintenance Allowace: Wallasey pupils with an autistic spectrum disorder is included. In addition the Children’s Workforce Development Council has been remitted to support those who work Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for with disabled children and young people in mainstream Education if he will estimate the likely effect on students and specialist settings. This includes determining what from poorer backgrounds in Wallasey constituency of specialist skills, knowledge and behaviours are needed the withdrawal of education maintenance allowance. by people working with disabled children and young [35605] people. Mr Gibb: We are committed to making sure that We will be publishing a Green Paper which will young people from low income households can continue consider how we can improve support for all children in education and training post-16. We are considering with special educational needs and disabilities, including the replacement for the education maintenance allowance those with autism. and want to ensure that the funds we have are targeted Children’s Centres on those young people who most need support to enable them to participate in education. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what guidance his Department issues to Education: Finance local authorities on the criteria for, and monitoring of, private and voluntary sector providers of children’s Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Education centres. [33289] how many (a) further education colleges, (b) sixth form colleges and (c) school sixth forms will receive (i) Sarah Teather: The Department has not issued any an increase or (ii) a decrease in overall funding per guidance to local authorities on the criteria for, and 16-19 year old as a result of implementation of the monitoring of, private and voluntary sector providers funding settlement issued by the YoungPeople’s Learning of children’s centres yet. One of the actions in the Agency on 20 December 2010; and if he will make a Departmental Easiness Plan, published in November statement. [35773] 343W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 344W

Mr Gibb [holding answer 24 January 2011]: The schools and colleges for the 2011/12 academic year will 16-19 funding statement, published by the YoungPeople’s be made by the end of March 2011. Learning Agency (YPLA) on 20 December 2010, set out the Government’s plans for 16-19 education and Free School Meals: Kingswood training for 2011/12. It set out the funding policy changes to be implemented in 2011/12 and stated there would be Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for a system of transitional protection to smooth the Education how many children in each ward in Kingswood implementation of changes year on year. For 2011/12 constituency are eligible for free school meals. [35692] this will mean no provider facing a reduction in funding per student of more than 3%. The precise reduction or Mr Gibb: The number of pupils known to be eligible increase each provider will face will depend on its for and claiming free school meals is shown in the individual circumstances and the YPLA is currently following table. This includes full-time pupils aged 0 to working through those calculations. Allocations to all 15 and part-time pupils aged five to 15.

Maintained nursery1, maintained primary2, state-funded secondary2, 3 and special schools4: School meal arrangements5 As at January 2010 by each ward within Kingswood parliamentary constituency Nursery1 and primary2 State-funded secondary2, 3 Special4 Number Number Number of pupils of pupils of pupils known to Percentage known to Percentage known to Percentage be eligible known to be eligible known to be eligible known to for and be eligible for and be eligible for and be eligible claiming for and claiming for and claiming for and free claiming free claiming free claiming Number school free school Number school free school Number school free school on roll5,6 meals5,6 meals on roll5,6 meals5,6 meals on roll5,6 meals5, 6 meals

Bitton 363 55 15.2 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Emersons Green 957 57 6.0 1,177 83 7.1 n/a n/a n/a Hanham 820 59 7.2 892 68 7.6 n/a n/a n/a Kings Chase 586 94 16.0 884 114 12.9 n/a n/a n/a Longwell Green 691 25 3.6 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Oldland Common 722 91 12.6 1,069 105 9.8 n/a n/a n/a Parkwall 389 70 18.0 861 93 10.8 n/a n/a n/a Rodway 965 165 17.1 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Siston n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 99 13 13.1 Woodstock 1,277 190 14.9 802 55 6.9 n/a n/a n/a Kingswood (all wards) 6,770 806 11.9 5,685 518 9.1 99 13 13.1 n/a = Not applicable. No schools of this type. 1 There are no maintained nursery schools in Kingswood parliamentary constituency. 2 Includes middle schools as deemed. 3 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 4 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools, excludes general hospital schools. 5 Includes sole and dual (main) registrations. 6 Pupils who have full-time attendance and are aged 0 to 15, or pupils who have part-time attendance and are aged five to 15. Source: School Census

Further Education: Finance student in 2011/12 to a maximum of 3% per student. The transitional protection will be removed over the Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for spending review period. Education (1) if he will take steps to ensure that identical In 2008 KPMG independently assessed the funding courses provided by colleges and a school sixth forms gap between school sixth forms and other providers at receive the same level of funding per student; and if he 5.6%. Since 2008 the gap has remained the same following will make a statement; [34512] the introduction of a consistent funding methodology (2) what estimate he has made of the like-for-like between all types of providers. The methodology used funding difference between schools and colleges in each by KPMG was to cost identical programmes for each of the last three years; and what methodology his provider type and then to assess the difference. The Department uses to calculate this figure. [34579] conclusion was that the gap was due to a 3% difference in funding rates and 2.6% paid to schools for teachers’ Mr Gibb: The White Paper “The Importance of pension payments. KPMG also stated that the Teachers’ Teaching”, published in November 2010, set out the Pay Grant (TPG) was now a clearly identifiable grant Government’s commitment to end the disparity in funding for schools with sixth forms that was not available to for 16-19 year olds so that by 2015 schools and colleges FE and other providers. Including the TPG in the are funded at the same level as one another. We want to calculation widened the gap to 9.6%. Other factors such achieve this in a carefully managed way over time so as as differences in treatment for VAT were not considered not to destabilise providers. To ensure this is the case we to form part of the funding gap. are limiting the reduction in the average funding per 345W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 346W

GCSE: Science Special Educational Needs

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what steps his Department is taking to increase Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for access to and take up of triple science GCSEs in deprived Education what meetings his Department has had with areas. [38238] (a) deaf children, (b) parents of deaf children and (c) organisations representing deaf children on the special Mr Gibb [holding answer 7 February 2011]: The educational needs Green Paper since his appointment. recent Schools White Paper confirms that we will support [21826] schools to offer triple science. We shall shortly announce details of how this support will be focused on increasing Sarah Teather: The Green Paper on special educational take up in the most deprived areas. needs and disabilities is being informed through a series We have already taken steps to increase access, such of discussions with those representing a wide range of as encouraging schools to offer triple science by including interests in this area, including the National Deaf Children’s it in the English Baccalaureate. We are also taking steps Society and the Special Educational Consortium, whose to increase the number and quality of science teachers. membership includes organisations representing deaf children. In addition, an open call for views was held, Higher Education: Arts receiving over 1,800 responses, 40% of which were from parents, but also from voluntary organisations, including Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for those representing deaf children. Education what representations he received from representatives of the crafts sector prior to reaching his The Department will continue to collaborate with a decision to reduce higher education funding for the wide range of individuals and groups in developing the tuition of arts and humanities. [39101] Green Paper, and during the consultation period following its publication. This will include engagement with children Mr Willetts: I have been asked to reply. and young people with special educational needs and In developing our proposals for reform of higher disabilities. education funding we have received a number of representations from individuals and institutions, including Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Education in the craft sector. The reforms will shift the balance of when he plans to publish his Green Paper on special public funds for teaching from direct grant to institutions educational needs. [32143] to funding that follows the informed choices made by individual students. This will provide strong incentives for institutions to focus on providing high quality teaching Sarah Teather: I am publishing a Green Paper to look as efficiently as possible. However, we do not expect the at the wide range of issues concerning provision for overall income of the sector to reduce. Putting together children with special educational needs and disabilities. the remaining funding for recurrent grant for teaching To inform this important work, I issued a call for views and research and the Government’s loans outlay to and have met parents, teachers, local authorities, charities institutions on the upfront costs of graduate contributions, and other groups. The call for views attracted over 1800 the aggregate effect could be that the total investment responses from a wide range of people and organisations. by this Department in institutions in England would In order to give those views the most careful consideration rise in cash terms from around £9 billion in 2010-11 to I will be publishing the Green Paper in March 2011. around £10 billion in 2014-15 while broadly maintaining existing levels of participation. Students: Loans Schools: Greater London

Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many schools in (a) West Ham constituency, (b) what plans he has to offer student loans to cover the the London borough of Newham and (c) London have costs of further education fees. [38793] had a reduction in the level of funding provided for extended out-of-hours provision in 2010-11. [26271] Mr Hayes: “Investing in Skills for Sustainable Growth” Sarah Teather: The Department does not collect data published in November 2010 set out our plans to introduce on the level of funding devolved by local authorities to Government backed further education fee loans from individual schools for extended out-of-hours provision. 2013/14. The loans will be available for those aged 24 How funding is distributed to individual schools is a and over to undertake qualifications at Level 3 and matter for local determination. Nationally, the revenue above. The loans will be repaid on an income contingent funding provided to local authorities through the 2010-11 basis in line with the approach for higher education fee Standards Fund grant for the sustainability and loans which includes a repayment threshold of £21,000 disadvantage elements of extended services has not and a write off after 30 years for any outstanding loan been reduced. From April 2011 onwards, funding for balance. extended services currently provided to local authorities We are engaging with the representative bodies for and schools through the Standards Fund will form part colleges, training organisations and other providers to of the baseline for the Dedicated Schools Grant. Schools, discuss implementation plans for FE fee loans. This including academies and free schools, will have freedom includes the establishment of a stakeholder reference and flexibility to spend their budgets to support their group to help identify the particular delivery arrangements pupils in the ways they judge best. appropriate for the FE and Skills sector. 347W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 348W

Teachers: Intimidation Young People: Unemployment Zac Goldsmith: Toask the Secretary of State for Education Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many young people in Richmond Park constituency what steps he is taking to protect teachers from false were not in education, employment or training on the allegations made by pupils. [38237] most recent date for which figures are available. [36122]

Mr Gibb [holding answer 7 February 2011]: The Mr Gibb: Estimates of participation in education, Education Bill introduces reporting restrictions to prevent training and employment for young people aged 16-18 the publication of information that would identify teachers are published by the Department in a Statistical First when allegations are made by or on behalf of a pupil Release (SFR) each June and can be found on the until they are charged with a criminal offence. We will Department’s website: also revise guidance to highlight the fundamental http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000938/ importance of eradicating unnecessary delays in index.shtml investigations, clarify that suspending teachers should This publication also contains additional tables that never be an automatic response and emphasising the show the number and proportion of young people who support that teachers are entitled to expect when facing participate in education and work based educational such action. training in each local authority. However, these estimates only cover 16 and 17-year-olds, and do not include information on young people’s employment. Written Questions: Government Responses Connexions Services collect information on the proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds who are not in education, employment or training (NEET) in each local authority Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for area in England. These are published annually on the Education when he plans to answer question (a) 31966 DFE website and the latest data for the end of 2009 are and (b) 31965, on the activities of the Minister of State in the following table. for Children and Families, tabled on 15 December 2010. This data estimate that at the end of 2009, 170 (3.4%) [39458] 16 to 18-year-olds were not in education, employment or training in Kingston-upon-Thames and 120 (3.5%) Sarah Teather: I responded to the hon. Member’s in Richmond-upon-Thames local authorities. The figures questions today. cannot be broken down by parliamentary consistency.

Proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds NEET: 20091, 5 16 to 18-year-olds NEET3, 4 16 to 18-year-olds known Estimated Percentage 16 to 18-year-olds whose to Connexions2 number Percentage current activity is not known

South East 251,766 14,600 5.8 5.1 Bracknell Forest 2,840 190 6.8 3.0 Brighton and Hove 7,284 640 8.8 4.0 Buckinghamshire 14,157 650 4.6 1.3 East Sussex 15,117 1,100 7.3 4.5 Hampshire 41,958 2,390 5.7 10.8 Isle of Wight 4,191 290 6.9 18.7 Kent 49,747 2,440 4.9 3.1 Medway 10,605 620 5.8 5.9 Milton Keynes 8,027 470 5.8 2.9 Oxfordshire 17,638 1,150 6.5 3.1 Portsmouth 4,201 470 11.1 10.5 Reading 4,461 290 6.5 2.7 Slough 4,309 260 6.0 3.2 Southampton 6,359 620 9.7 7.5 Surrey 28,061 1,150 4.1 4.4 West Berkshire 4,838 250 5.2 2.6 West Sussex 20,911 1,230 5.9 3.5 Windsor and Maidenhead 3,700 200 5.5 2.5 Wokingham 3,361 210 6.3 2.6

London 204,518 10,840 5.3 4.4 Barking and Dagenham 6,913 550 7.9 6.2 Barnet 10,068 380 3.8 4.9 Bexley 6,520 330 5.0 1.8 Brent 6,889 320 4.6 4.9 Bromley 10,636 450 4.2 3.8 Camden 5,377 300 5.5 3.8 City of London 632 — 0.6 0.5 349W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 350W

Proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds NEET: 20091, 5 16 to 18-year-olds NEET3, 4 16 to 18-year-olds known Estimated Percentage 16 to 18-year-olds whose to Connexions2 number Percentage current activity is not known

Croydon 9,838 680 6.9 6.4 Ealing 6,371 310 4.9 3.5 Enfield 8,709 530 6.1 9.2 Greenwich 6,169 410 6.6 4.3 Hackney 4,218 310 7.4 6.3 Hammersmith and Fulham 3,414 190 5.6 4.4 Haringey 4,863 330 6.8 5.0 Harrow 6,152 180 2.9 2.6 Havering 8,853 420 4.7 3.6 Hillingdon 8,434 460 5.4 2.3 Hounslow 6,603 310 4.7 3.6 Islington 5,792 420 7.3 6.9 Kensington and Chelsea 2,440 120 5.0 5.0 Kingston 4,871 170 3.4 2.8 Lambeth 4,161 320 7.6 6.0 Lewisham 8,661 420 4.9 3.1 Merton 2,691 150 5.6 4.9 Newham 8,039 540 6.7 5.7 Redbridge 8,834 360 4.1 1.3 Richmond 3,346 120 3.5 2.8 Southwark 3,569 310 8.7 5.0 Sutton 6,481 290 4.4 3.6 Tower Hamlets 5,537 330 6.0 3.6 Waltham Forest 8,113 370 4.5 3.2 Wandsworth 7,006 300 4.3 5.7 Westminster 4,318 200 4.6 7.0

East of England 182,920 10,790 5.9 3.7 Bedford borough 5,714 320 5.6 3.8 Cambridgeshire 17,316 940 5.4 2.9 Central Bedfordshire 6,686 420 6.3 6.1 Essex 42,988 2,970 6.9 3.7 Hertfordshire 36,600 1,320 3.6 3.0 Luton 6,414 420 6.5 2.2 Norfolk 27,110 1,460 5.4 4.8 Peterborough 6,124 540 8.8 2.3 Southend 8,243 460 5.6 4.6 Suffolk 20,655 1,530 7.4 3.8 Thurrock 5,069 330 6.6 5.8

South West 157,482 8,820 5.6 2.4 Bath and NE Somerset 5,312 220 4.2 2.2 Bournemouth 4,639 310 6.7 0.7 Bristol 11,676 900 7.7 4.1 Cornwall 17,076 970 5.7 0.8 Devon 20,804 1,190 5.7 0.8 Dorset 11,036 740 6.7 1.9 Gloucestershire 18,556 740 4.0 4.2 Isles of Scilly — — — — North Somerset 5,462 210 3.9 1.4 Plymouth 9,258 620 6.7 0.8 Poole 4,625 250 5.5 2.8 Somerset 15,963 700 4.4 5.3 South Gloucestershire 8,779 390 4.4 2.4 Swindon 6,587 540 8.2 3.2 Torbay 5,297 190 3.6 0.7 Wiltshire 12,411 760 6.1 2.5

West Midlands 180,710 11,930 6.6 3.9 351W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 352W

Proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds NEET: 20091, 5 16 to 18-year-olds NEET3, 4 16 to 18-year-olds known Estimated Percentage 16 to 18-year-olds whose to Connexions2 number Percentage current activity is not known

Birmingham 34,897 2,690 7.7 3.2 Coventry 10,743 740 6.9 2.8 Dudley 13,081 640 4.9 4.6 Herefordshire 5,263 310 5.9 3.3 Sandwell 6,817 700 10.2 5.4 Shropshire 7,689 360 4.7 3.2 Solihull 9,178 560 6.1 3.6 Staffordshire 28,782 1,470 5.1 3.7 Stoke on Trent 8,055 790 9.8 5.6 Telford and Wrekin 5,630 530 9.4 9.8 Walsall 9,704 790 8.1 4.7 Warwickshire 16,711 940 5.6 2.6 Wolverhampton 8,067 610 7.6 6.2 Worcestershire 16,093 890 5.5 3.1

East Midlands 145,443 8,000 5.5 3.8 Derby city 9,385 670 7.1 5.0 Derbyshire 21,117 1,580 7.5 3.8 Leicester city 11,717 890 7.6 4.9 Leicestershire county 20,185 790 3.9 4.0 Lincolnshire 24,015 1,150 4.8 3.4 Northamptonshire 21,894 1,140 5.2 2.1 Nottingham 12,355 670 5.4 4.8 Nottinghamshire 24,218 1,140 4.7 4.3 Rutland 557 10 1.9 9.0

Yorkshire and the Humber 172,423 13,450 7.8 5.2 Barnsley 7,466 590 7.9 6.2 Bradford 15,847 1,360 8.6 4.2 Calderdale 6,431 560 8.7 4.2 Doncaster 10,460 780 7.5 4.6 East Riding 9,061 510 5.6 8.3 Kingston upon Hull 10,828 1,030 9.5 5.6 Kirklees 14,403 1,350 9.4 4.7 Leeds 24,237 1,990 8.2 10.9 North East Lincolnshire 7,022 440 6.3 3.7 North Lincolnshire 6,086 560 9.2 4.9 North Yorkshire 15,537 680 4.4 1.3 Rotherham 10,871 860 7.9 4.9 Sheffield 15,967 1,360 8.5 3.7 Wakefield 11,465 1,070 9.3 3.9 York 6,740 290 4.3 1.9

North West 241,083 17,600 7.3 3.0 Blackburn-Darwen 6,652 450 6.7 2.5 Blackpool 7,506 500 6.7 2.6 Bolton 8,496 900 10.6 5.3 Bury 8,738 490 5.6 2.6 Cheshire East 11,274 630 5.6 1.7 Cheshire West and Chester 11,249 610 5.4 2.5 Cumbria 16,603 750 4.5 2.5 Halton 3,961 400 10.2 2.6 Knowsley 4,127 440 10.6 2.5 Lancashire county 35,931 2,550 7.1 2.9 Liverpool 15,067 1,310 8.7 3.6 Manchester 14,981 1,420 9.5 3.1 Oldham 8,947 640 7.2 3.5 Rochdale 5,972 610 10.2 2.8 Salford 8,701 570 6.6 3.7 353W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 354W

Proportion of 16 to 18-year-olds NEET: 20091, 5 16 to 18-year-olds NEET3, 4 16 to 18-year-olds known Estimated Percentage 16 to 18-year-olds whose to Connexions2 number Percentage current activity is not known

Sefton 10,591 690 6.5 2.1 St Helens 6,733 500 7.5 2.1 Stockport 11,056 830 7.5 2.6 Tameside 7,708 600 7.8 4.2 Trafford 7,433 400 5.4 4.1 Warrington 6,349 360 5.6 1.7 Wigan 11,748 830 7.1 3.8 Wirral 11,261 1,020 9.1 3.0

North East 89,885 8,090 9.0 4.2 County Durham 15,888 1,570 9.9 4.1 Darlington 5,032 360 7.1 2.4 Gateshead 6,384 560 8.8 5.0 Hartlepool 3,693 270 7.4 2.8 Middlesbrough 6,558 630 9.6 2.5 Newcastle 12,585 980 7.8 6.5 North Tyneside 5,661 460 8.1 4.8 Northumberland 9,510 690 7.3 3.1 Redcar and Cleveland 4,799 570 11.8 3.8 South Tyneside 4,328 390 9.0 6.1 Stockton on Tees 5,991 670 11.1 2.7 Sunderland 9,455 900 9.5 4.3 1 2009 data are an average of the figures provided by Connexions at the end of November 2009, December 2009 and January 2010. They include all young people known to Connexions who were aged 16, 17 or 18 at that time. 2 The number of 16 to 18-year-olds known to Connexions includes those whose education establishment is located in the local authority area, regardless of where the young person resides. 3 16 to 18-year-olds known to be undertaking a gap year, or in custody, are not recorded by Connexions as NEET. 4 The number and percentage of 16 to 18-year-olds NEET have been adjusted to assume a proportion of those whose current activity is not known are NEET. 5 The figures above cannot be compared with the DFE estimate of the proportion of young people NEET (SFR 20/2010). The DFE figures use a range of data from different sources to estimate the proportion of the population that is NEET, and relate to the young person’s academic age.

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE with associated tender documents on the Contracts Finder website since its inception. [39220] Departmental Information Officers Gregory Barker: Since the inception of Contracts Finder the Department of Energy and Climate Change Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy has advertised 22 procurements with a contract value of and Climate Change how many (a) press officers, (b) over £10,000 on the Suppy2Gov website. One complete internal communications officers, (c) external set of tender documents has been placed on Contracts communications officers, (d) communications strategy Finder. Currently there are no published contracts with officers and (e) other positions with a communications associated tender documents on the Contracts Finder remit were employed by (i) his Department, (ii) its website. agencies and (iii) each other non-departmental public body sponsored by his Department on the most recent Electric Cables date for which figures are available. [38955] Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gregory Barker: As at the date of the last and Climate Change what discussions (a) Ministers communications benchmarking exercise on 31 March and (b) officials in his Department have had with the 2010, DECC had 30 professional communicators, working national grid on its policy on undergrounding overhead across a range of disciplines. high voltage electricity transmission lines. [39053] As at the same date, the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority had 17 professional communicators. Figures Charles Hendry: Ministers and officials have ongoing for other NDPBs were not available. discussions with national grid on its approach to DECC has no executive agencies. undergrounding high voltage electricity transmission lines. These discussions have included a request from DECC to national grid to fund an independent and Departmental Procurement authoritative study to give clarity on the practicality, costs and impacts of undergrounding and subsea cabling Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy as alternatives to overhead lines. This independent study and Climate Change whether all new contracts his is being undertaken by the Institution of Engineering Department has tendered over £10,000 have been published and Technology and consultants KEMA, and will be 355W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 356W owned by those two organisations. DECC is also engaging Charles Hendry: Guidance on third party access with national grid in relation to its consultation on its requirements for licence exempt gas and electricity approach to undergrounding, which was launched in distribution networks will be published as soon as possible December 2010. after regulations have been laid. Energy Wind Power

Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made 17 January 2011, Official Report, column 477W, on of the cost of constructing fossil fuel power stations to energy, what mechanisms officials will use to decide compensate for the intermittency of wind power appropriate compensation and corresponding benefits; generation in the period up to 2030. [38393] and how he plans to achieve consistency across the treatment of cases. [39331] Charles Hendry: The Department has not provided estimates of the cost of constructing fossil fuel power Charles Hendry: The Department will implement the stations to compensate for intermittency in the period policy of no subsidy for new nuclear power in line with out to 2030. These costs would depend on a wide range the written ministerial statement made by the Secretary of factors including the total volume and mix of fossil of State for Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. fuel capacity required as well as infrastructure construction Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) on 18 and supply chain costs. October 2010, Official Report, column 44WS. Fossil fuel power stations are not the only way to Energy: Subsidies provide back up for intermittent wind generation. There are a number of alternative solutions including responsive demand, interconnection and storage such as pumped Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy storage, batteries and hydrogen, all of which are expected and Climate Change what assessment he has made of to play a role in the future energy mix. the effectiveness of efforts to encourage the World Trade Organisation to promote transparency in energy The Department has however published a number of subsidies; and if he will make a statement. [38138] studies which give estimates of the total cost of fossil fuel capacity under a range of renewables scenarios. Mr Davey: I have been asked to reply. These studies, the Redpoint Analysis (2009) and UK Renewable Energy Strategy: Impact Assessment for the As part of the World Trade Organisation’s (WTO) Centralised Electricity Sector, are available at: Doha trade round, negotiations are taking place aimed http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/whatwe_do/uksupply/ at strengthening multilateral disciplines on trade distorting energymix/renewable/res/res.aspx subsidies. These negotiations are ongoing. In this wider context, the Government are currently The UK supports the EU position of seeking consulting on future Electricity Market Reform. This strengthened disciplines on trade distorting subsidies. consultation is available at: Improving the notification of subsidies by WTO members would promote transparency and is an essential first http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/emr/ emr.aspx step in securing greater multilateral control over trade distorting subsidies in all sectors, including those energy Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy subsidies covered by WTO agreements. and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs likely cost per kilowatt hour of fossil fuel-powered generation to provide back-up for the intermittency of wind power generation in 2030. [38394] Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what proportion of feed-in tariff Charles Hendry: The Department has not provided payments for (a) solar and (b) wind installations have estimates of the cost per kilowatt hour of fossil generation been paid on the measured input of electricity to the in 2030 to provide back up to intermittency. In principle grid to date. [38268] this would depend on a range of factors including the fixed costs of the plant, and the prevailing wholesale Charles Hendry: This information is not available fuel price. within the Department until the end of year FITs Report is received from Ofgem. However, Ofgem have Fossil fuel power stations are not the only way to published data from the quarterly levelisation process provide back up for intermittent wind generation. There up to 30 September 2010 which can be viewed at: are a number of alternative solutions including responsive http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/Environment/fits/ demand, interconnection and storage such as pumped Levelisation/Pages/Levelisation.aspx storage, batteries and hydrogen, all of which are expected to play a role in the future energy mix. Third Internal Energy Package The Department has however published a number of studies which give estimates of the total cost of fossil Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for fuel capacity under a range of renewables scenarios. Energy and Climate Change when he expects to publish These studies, the Redpoint Analysis (2009) and UK the guidance on the third party access requirement Renewable Energy Strategy: Impact Assessment for the referred to in paragraph 5.16 of the Government’s Centralised Electricity Sector, are available at: response to its consultation on the Implementation of http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/whatwedo/uk_supply/ the EU Third Internal Energy Package. [37841] energymix/renewable/res/res.aspx 357W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 358W

In this wider context, the Government are currently Maternity units in England and Wales where fewer than 200 live births consulting on future Electricity Market Reform. This occurred in 2009 consultation is available at: Communal establishment name Town/city http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cins/consultations/emr/ emr.aspx 6 Bridlington and District Bridlington Hospital 7 Bryn Beryl Hospital Pwllheli CABINET OFFICE 8 Chipping Norton War Chipping Norton Charitable Donations Memorial Hospital 9 Clacton and District Clacton on Sea Hospital Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 10 Corbar Birth Centre Buxton Buxton Office what assessment he has made of trends in charitable Hospital giving by (a) corporations and (b) individuals in the 11 Darley Birth Centre Matlock last 30 years. [35806] Whitworth Hospital 12 Denbigh Infirmary Denbigh Mr Hurd: The information is as follows: 13 Dolgellau and Barmouth Dolgellau Gwynedd (a) As part of the Giving Green Paper published in December District Hospital 2010, levels of corporate donations were assessed. Drawing on 14 Gilchrist Maternity Unit, Eye data from the Charity Market Monitor, the assessment found that Hartismere Hospital in 2008-09 corporate donations to charity ranged from under 1% to 48% of pre-tax profits. On average, in over 80% of industries, 15 Goole and District Hospital Goole donations by firms were less than 1% of pre-tax profits. In terms 16 Grantham and District Grantham of amounts donated, companies in the pharmaceutical industry Hospital gave the largest amounts. Trends in corporate giving were not 17 Halstead Birthing Centre Halstead assessed as part of the Giving Green Paper. 18 Helston Community Helston (b) The Giving Green Paper, published in December 2010, Hospital cited analysis carried out by the National Council for Voluntary 19 Hexham General Hospital Hexham Organisations (NCVO) and the Charities Aid Foundation (CAF). 20 Hillcrest Maternity Home Alnwick The assessment found that over the last six years, average amounts 21 Holistic Birthing Centre Northwich donated to charity by individuals have risen largely in line with GDP growth. In 2009-10, 28.4 million adults (56%) donated to 22 Honiton Hospital Honiton charity in a typical month. We do not hold data showing donations 23 Knighton Hospital Knighton over the last 30 years. 24 Llandrindod Wells County Llandrindod Wells War Memorial Hospital Childbirth 25 Llanidloes War Memorial Llanidloes Hospital John Pugh: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office 26 Ludlow Hospital Ludlow which maternity units recorded fewer than 200 live (Maternity) births in the last 12 months for which figures are available. 27 Malton Hospital Malton [39109] 28 Montgomery County Llanllwchaiarn Newtown Infirmary Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. 29 Newton Abbot Hospital Newton Abbot The information requested falls within the responsibility 30 Nuneaton Private Hospital Nuneaton of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority 31 Okehampton Community Okehampton to reply. Hospital Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: 32 Orthopaedic and District Oswestry As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Hospital (Maternity) have been asked to reply to your recent question asking which 33 Penrith Hospital Penrith maternity units recorded fewer than 200 live births in the last 12 34 St Marys Hospital Isles of Scilly months for which figures are available. [39109] 35 St Peters Maternity Unit St Shepton Mallet Figures on live births by hospital can be compiled from birth Peters Hospital registration data for England and Wales that are held by the 36 Tair Afon General Hospital Aberdare Office for National Statistics. In this dataset, information on 37 The Birth Centre, Tooting London place of birth is provided by the informant at registration (usually a parent) rather than by the hospitals themselves. 38 The Fryatt Hospital Harwich The attached document provides a list of maternity units in 39 The Wantage Hospital Wantage England and Wales with fewer than 200 live births occurring in 40 Tiverton and District Tiverton 2009, the latest year available. Hospital Maternity units in England and Wales where fewer than 200 live births 41 Tywyn and District War Tywyn Gwynedd occurred in 2009 Memorial Hospital Communal establishment 42 Victoria Memorial Hospital Welshpool name Town/city 43 Wakefield Birth Centre Wakefield 44 Wallingford Community Wallingford 1 Andover Birth Centre Andover Hospital Andover War Memorial Hospital 45 Whitby Community Whitby Hospital 2 Berwick Infirmary Berwick-on-Tweed Note: 3 Brecon War Memorial Brecon This list is based on number of births from January to December Hospital 2009. It is likely that some small maternity units will have closed since 4 Bridgnorth Hospital Northgate Bridgnorth 2009 and others may have opened. The list includes both NHS and 5 Bridgwater Hospital Bridgwater private maternity units. 359W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 360W

Citizens Advice: Manpower Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has not made an assessment of relative levels of social capital among socio-economic Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet groups. Office if he will take steps to support staffing levels in (a) advice bureaux and (b) other agencies which rely Deaths: Carbon Monoxide on volunteer staff. [38498] Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Hurd: Encouraging social action, including Office how many deaths attributable to poisoning from volunteering is one of the three aims of the Governments carbon monoxide there were in each age decile in each vision for a big society. In December 2010 the Government local authority area in each of the last 15 years. [38590] published the “Giving Green” paper, which sought to start a debate on how we can make social action a norm Mr Hurd: The information falls within the responsibility and encourage more people to give their time. The of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority Green paper announced two new funds to increase to reply. volunteering which will support agencies that rely on Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: volunteer staff. The two funds are: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 1. A £40 million volunteering match fund to encourage private have been asked to reply to your recent question asking: sector investment in volunteering. How many deaths attributable to poisoning from carbon monoxide 2. A £42.5 million fund to support local volunteering infrastructure there were in each age decile in each local authority in each of the making it easier for people to find local volunteering opportunities. last 15 years. (38590) Citizens Advice Bureaux were also able to apply to The table attached provides the number of deaths where the the £100 million transition fund which will help civil toxic effect of carbon monoxide was the cause of death by society organisations delivering front-line services to 10-year age group (Table 1), for England and Wales, from 1995 to become more resilient in the changing funding environment. 2009 (the latest year available). The first round of payments to successful applicants Numbers of deaths by age group for local authorities have not been given in line with the current ONS policy on protecting will be made by the end of March 2011. confidentiality within birth and death statistics. In addition, the Cabinet Office is the lead coordinating Table 1. Number of deaths with a cause of carbon monoxide poisoning, by age body for the 2011 European year of volunteering. One group, England and Wales, 1997 to 20091, 2, 3 of the main priorities for the year is to encourage and Deaths (persons) enable individuals to make a contribution within their 0-9 10-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 70-79 80+ communities and help social issues by volunteering. 1995 18 14 228 264 247 132 80 59 46 1996 18 18 204 257 243 126 71 58 52 Civic Society Initiatives 1997 13 31 170 205 184 109 54 58 49 1998 10 11 120 197 154 114 48 52 35 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 1999 11 15 100 176 147 104 46 58 50 Office what comparative research his Department has 2000 12 12 91 154 101 92 38 39 37 (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on approaches to 2001 9 14 70 112 108 83 32 30 45 civic society initiatives in other countries. [38467] 2002 10 7 49 112 119 79 31 18 27 2003 7 8 49 89 89 62 29 25 28 Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has not commissioned 2004 7 8 47 104 77 53 28 28 22 or formally evaluated research into approaches to civic 2005 4 5 20 64 62 39 26 15 28 society initiatives in other countries. However, the 2006 12 5 12 51 79 51 16 19 16 Department continues to look to other countries to 2007 2 1 34 50 51 41 33 18 21 identify examples of such initiatives, and to learn lessons 2008 2 0 13 31 58 52 23 13 26 in best practice to inform ongoing policy development 2009 4 5 18 34 71 41 23 21 19 in this area. 1 Cause of death from carbon monoxide poisoning was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) code 986 for the years 1995 to 2000 and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code T58 for the years 2001 Community Relations to 2009, where these codes appeared as the secondary cause. 2 Figures include deaths of non-residents. 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what research his Department has (a) commissioned Deaths: Prostate Cancer and (b) evaluated on the effect of levels of inequality on levels of social cohesion and social trust. [38454] Mr Buckland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) how many deaths from prostate cancer there Mr Hurd: The information requested is as follows: were in (a) England, (b) each primary care trust area (a) The Cabinet Office has not commissioned any research on and (c) each constituency in each year from 1997-98 to the effect of levels of inequality on levels of social cohesion and 2009-10; [38809] social trust. (2) what the age-standardised mortality rate from (b) The Cabinet Office has not evaluated any research on the prostate cancer was in (a) England, (b) each primary effect of levels of inequality on levels of social cohesion and care trust area and (c) each constituency in each year social trust. from 1997-98 to 2009-10. [38811]

Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Office what assessment he has made of relative levels of responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have social capital in each socio-economic group. [38456] asked the authority to reply. 361W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 362W

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: Table 4. Age-standardised mortality rates per 100,000 males, where prostate cancer was the underlying cause of death, England, 1997 to As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 have been asked to reply to your recent questions asking: Males 1. How many deaths from prostate cancer there were in (a) Rate per 100,000 England, (b) each primary care trust area and (c) each constituency in each year from 1997-98 to 2009-10. (38809) 2002 27 2. What the age-standardised mortality rate from prostate 2003 27 cancer was in (a) England, (b) each primary care trust area and (c) 2004 26 each constituency in each year from 1997-98 to 2009-10. (38811) 2005 26 Tables 1 to 3 provide the number of deaths where prostate 2006 25 cancer was the underlying cause of death, in (a) England (Table 7), (b) each primary care organisation in England (Table 2) and (c) 2007 25 each parliamentary constituency in England (Table 3), for the 2008 24 years 1997 to 2009 (the latest year available). 2009 24 Tables 4 to 6 provide the age-standardised mortality rate per 1 Age-standardised mortality rates per 100,000 population, standardised 100,000, where prostate cancer was the underlying cause of death, to the European Standard Population. Age-standardised rates are in (a) England, for the years 1997 to 2009 (the latest year available) used to allow comparison between populations which may contain (Table 4), (b) each primary care organisation in England, for the different proportions of people of different ages. years 2001 to 2009 (the only period available) (Table 5), and (c) 2 Cause of death for prostate cancer was defined using the International each parliamentary constituency in England, for the years 2001 to Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) code 185 for the 2007 (the only period available) (Table 6). years 1997 to 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code C61 from 2001 onwards. The introduction of ICD-10 in 2001 means that the numbers A copy of Tables 2, 3, 5 and 6 has been placed in the House of of deaths from this cause before 2001 are not completely comparable Commons Library. with later years. Figures are provided for calendar years (January to December) 3 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 4 to be consistent with routine mortality outputs. Figures for England exclude deaths of non-residents. 5 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Mortality rates for primary care organisations and parliamentary constituencies can only be calculated for the periods given due to the availability of population estimates. Boundary changes to Mr Buckland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet parliamentary constituencies implemented in May 2010 are not Office what the age-standardised incidence rate for prostate reflected in the population estimates currently available for cancer is; and how many diagnoses of prostate cancer parliamentary consistencies. Figures have therefore been provided there were in (a) England, (b) each strategic health for the former boundaries. authority area, (c) each primary care trust area and (d) Table 1. Number of deaths where prostate cancer was the underlying each parliamentary constituency in each year since cause of death, England, 1997 to 20091, 2, 3, 4 1997. [38810] Males Deaths Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have 1997 7,982 asked the authority to reply. 1998 8,074 1999 8,015 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: 2000 7,761 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what the 2001 8,305 age-standardised incidence rate for prostate cancer is; and how 2002 8,471 many diagnoses of prostate cancer there were in (a) England, (b) 2003 8,570 each strategic health authority area, (c) each primary care trust 2004 8,531 area and (d) each parliamentary constituency in each year since 2005 8,492 1997. [38810] 2006 8,506 The latest available figures for newly diagnosed cases of prostate 2007 8,659 cancer (incidence) are for the year 2008. Please note that these 2008 8,597 numbers may not be the same as the number of people diagnosed with cancer, because one person may be diagnosed with more 2009 8,842 than one cancer. 1 Cause of death for prostate cancer was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9) code 185 for the Cancer incidence rates can only be calculated from 2002 onwards years 1997 to 2000, and Tenth Revision (ICD-10) code C61 from 2001 for strategic health authorities, from 2001 for primary care onwards. The introduction of ICD-10 in 2001 means that the numbers organisations and from 2001 to 2007 for parliamentary constituencies of deaths from this cause before 2001 are not completely comparable due to the availability of population estimates for these areas. with later years. Boundary changes to parliamentary constituencies implemented 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. in May 2010 are not reflected in the population estimates currently 3 Figures for England exclude deaths of non-residents. available for parliamentary constituencies. New population estimates 4 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. for 2008 and 2009 and revised estimates for 2002 to 2007 will be Table 4. Age-standardised mortality rates per 100,000 males, where published on 23 February 2011. These will reflect the boundary prostate cancer was the underlying cause of death, England, 1997 to changes that came into effect in May 2010 and will also be 20091, 2, 3, 4, 5 comparable with the revised Local Authority mid-year population Males estimates published in 2010. Rate per 100,000 The number of prostate cancer cases in each parliamentary constituency has not been given for individual years, in line with 1997 28 ONS policy on protecting confidentiality within patients’ data. 1998 28 The tables provide: 1999 27 (a) The age-standardised incidence rate per 100,000 population 2000 26 (Table 1), and the number of diagnoses (incidence) (Table 2) of 2001 27 prostate cancer in England, for the years 1997 to 2008. 363W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 364W

(b) The age-standardised incidence rate per 100,000 population, Table 1. Age-standardised incidence rates per 100,000 population, for prostate cancer, for strategic health authorities in England for prostate cancer, males, England, 1997 to 20081, 2, 3 the years 2002 to 2008 (Table 3), and the number of diagnoses England Cases per 100,000 (males) (incidence) for prostate cancer for strategic health authorities in England for the years 1997 to 2008 (Table 4). 2002 96 (c) The age-standardised incidence rate per 100,000 population, 2003 96 for prostate cancer, for primary care organisations in England for 2004 103 years 2001 to 2008 (Table 5) and the number of diagnoses 2005 99 (incidence) for prostate cancer for primary care organisations in 2006 103 England for years 1997 to 2008 (Table 6). 2007 100 (d) The age-standardised incidence rate per 100,000 population, for prostate cancer, for parliamentary constituencies in England 2008 98 for the years 2001 to 2007 combined (Table 7), and the number of 1 Age-standardised incidence rates per 100,000 population, standardised diagnoses (incidence) for prostate cancer for parliamentary to the European Standard Population. Age-standardised rates are constituencies in England for combined years 1997-02 and 2003-07 used to allow comparison between populations which may contain different proportions of people of different ages. (Table 8). Figures presented in Table 8 were extracted using the 2 old parliamentary constituency boundaries, pre-May 2010, to be Prostate cancer is coded as C61 in the International Classification of comparable with Table 7. Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). 3 Based on newly diagnosed cases registered in each calendar year. A copy of Tables 5, 6, 7 and 8 has been placed in the House of Commons Library. Table 2. Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of prostrate cancer, males, England, 1997 to 20081, 2 The cancer incidence figures for England match the published figures for the latest year of incidence, in this case for the year England Registrations (males) 2008. The cancer incidence figures for previous years, in this case 1997 20,006 1997 to 2007, differ from those in the Annual Reference Volumes 1998 20,480 Series MB1 “Cancer statistics registrations, England” because the figures in this answer were obtained from the National Cancer 1999 22,387 Registrations system which is a live database. 2000 24,593 The question asks for data by primary care trust. There are 147 2001 28,015 primary care trusts, which are referred to (with the four care 2002 28,246 trusts and one care trust plus) as primary care organisations 2003 28,503 (PCOs, 152 in total). Figures have been provided for all primary 2004 30,975 care organisations. 2005 30,053 Primary care organisations have been listed under the strategic 2006 31,476 health authorities they report to. However, not all PCOs are entirely within the boundaries of the SHAs to which they report, 2007 31,236 so the sum of PCO incidences do not always equal the figure 2008 30,893 presented for an SHA. 1 Prostate cancer is coded as C61 in the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). Tameside and Glossop PCT reports to North West SHA but is 2 partly within East Midlands SHA. Based on newly diagnosed cases registered in each calendar year. Lincolnshire PCT reports to East Midlands SHA but is partly Table 3. Age-standardised incidence rates per 100,000 population, within Yorkshire and the Humber SHA. prostate cancer, males, strategic health authorities in England, 2002- 081, 2, 3, 4 Berkshire East PCT reports to South Central SHA but is partly within South East Coast SHA. Cases per 100,000 (males) 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Swindon PCT reports to South West SHA but is partly within South Central SHA. North East 90 97 86 93 86 87 83 ONS has published population estimates for primary care North West 88 90 108 101 104 97 90 organisations for 2001 to 2008, based on boundaries following the Yorkshire 89 90 101 97 102 101 96 2006 reorganisation. These estimates are consistent with the local and the authority estimates. Humber ONS published population estimates for parliamentary East 84 82 94 99 102 102 97 constituencies for 2001 to 2007, as experimental statistics. Experimental Midlands statistics are in a testing or consultation phase and are not fully West 102 102 109 104 107 99 102 developed, and should therefore be treated with caution. Further Midlands information about experimental statistics can be found at: East of 99 96 99 102 101 102 104 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=173 England With the exception of figures presented for parliamentary London 97 97 100 95 99 103 102 constituencies, figures were extracted using the latest boundaries South East 89 89 94 91 96 94 92 for consistency. This means that figures for past time periods can Coast sometimes differ from those previously published by ONS for South 110 107 116 100 108 102 94 those periods, where boundaries have changed over time. Central Table 1. Age-standardised incidence rates per 100,000 population, South West 110 111 116 104 111 112 106 prostate cancer, males, England, 1997 to 20081, 2, 3 1 Age-standardised incidence rates per 100,000 population, England Cases per 100,000 (males) standardised to the European Standard Population. Age- standardised rates are used to allow comparison between 1997 71 populations which may contain different proportions of people of 1998 72 different ages. 2 Prostate cancer is coded as C61 in the International Classification 1999 78 of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). 2000 85 3 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 2001 96 4 Based on newly diagnosed cases registered in each calendar year. 365W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 366W

Table 4. Registrations of newly diagnosed cases of prostate cancer, males, strategic health authorities in England, 1997 to 20081, 2, 3 Males 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

North East 902 1,066 1,235 1,249 1,417 1,406 1,504 1,369 1,475 1,394 1,424 1,377 North 2,555 2,627 2,841 3,107 3,659 3,535 3,632 4,403 4,183 4,334 4,081 3,876 West Yorkshire 1,861 1,828 1,943 2,399 2,678 2,664 2,713 3,063 2,968 3,175 3,179 3,050 and the Humber East 1,465 1,531 1,751 1,973 2,162 2,194 2,161 2,543 2,694 2,847 2,888 2,818 Midlands West 2,093 2,254 2,416 2,745 3,109 3,257 3,303 3,564 3,457 3,591 3,371 3,506 Midlands East of 2,286 2,289 2,646 2,986 3,290 3,396 3,341 3,492 3,617 3,675 3,733 3,945 England London 2,616 2,678 2,768 2,843 3,155 3,199 3,184 3,296 3,152 3,260 3,397 3,377 South East 2,102 2,018 2,264 2,341 2,522 2,382 2,415 2,548 2,470 2,634 2,623 2,613 Coast South 1,491 1,651 1,831 2,074 2,392 2,407 2,368 2,615 2,279 2,499 2,416 2,302 Central South West 2,635 2,538 2,692 2,876 3,631 3,806 3,882 4,082 3,758 4,067 4,124 4,029 1 Prostate cancer is coded as C61 in the International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10). 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 Based on newly diagnosed cases registered in each calendar year.

Ethnic Groups: Greater London Authorities in England and Wales and Key Statistics for Wards in England and Wales reports held in the House of Commons library. Stephen Hammond: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) what his most recent estimate is of the ethnic Annex minority population of each (a) borough and (b) ward Table 1: Estimated ‘ethnic minority’ population1 of London and in London; [38283] constituent local authorities, 20072 (2) what estimate he has made of the size of the Thousand ethnic minority population of (a) London, (b) the ‘Ethnic minority’ London borough of Merton and (c) Merton Park Area Total population population1 ward; [38459] London 7,556.9 3,195.1 (3) what his most recent estimate is of the number of City of London 8.0 2.5 people in each ethnic group in each council ward in the Barking and 166.9 51.0 London borough of Merton. [38460] Dagenham Barnet 329.7 141.9 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Bexley 222.1 39.1 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Brent 270.0 184.7 asked the authority to reply. Bromley 300.7 55.2 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: Camden 231.9 110.5 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Croydon 339.5 141.9 have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Questions. Ealing 305.3 165.7 The term ‘ethnic minority’ is used in different senses. ONS Enfield 285.1 123.9 practice is to use the term to mean ‘ethnic group other than White Greenwich 223.1 77.4 British’. Hackney 209.7 108.1 The most appropriate source of information on the population Hammersmith and 172.5 67.8 by ethnic group for London boroughs is the Population Estimates Fulham by Ethnic Group. The latest estimates from this source relate to 2007 and are shown for London and its constituent boroughs, Haringey 224.7 114.6 including Merton, in Table 1 below (38283a, 38459a,b). Harrow 214.6 114.5 The latest estimates of the population by ethnic group for Havering 228.4 31.0 wards are those from the 2001 Census. The census estimate of the Hillingdon 250.7 85.2 total ‘ethnic minority’ population for Merton Park ward, together Hounslow 220.6 104.8 with the corresponding census estimates for Merton and London Islington 187.8 76.5 for reference, are shown in Table 2 below (38459c). Kensington and 178.6 88.2 The census estimates of the ‘ethnic minority’ population for all Chelsea wards in London, together with the corresponding census estimates for London boroughs for reference, are provided in a table lodged Kingston upon 157.9 46.9 Thames with the House of Commons library (38283b). Lambeth 273.2 121.4 The census estimates of the population in each ethnic group for each ward in Merton are provided in a table lodged with the Lewisham 258.5 115.8 House of Commons library (38460). Merton 199.3 79.5 The Census estimates contained in these tables are also available, Newham 249.6 168.9 or can be derived from, table KS06 in the Key Statistics for Local Redbridge 254.4 124.6 367W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 368W

Table 1: Estimated ‘ethnic minority’ population1 of London and The Mutual Support Programme: constituent local authorities, 20072 The Government have committed to investing at least £10 Thousand million in support for some of the most promising and innovative ‘Ethnic minority’ mutuals in order that they reach the point of investment readiness Area Total population population1 from spring 2011. The programme is not currently open and therefore has not received any applications. Richmond upon 180.0 45.8 Thames Mutual Pathfinders: Southwark 274.4 130.2 Leading experts, such as Co-ops UK, the Employee Ownership Sutton 185.9 40.1 Association and Local Partnerships, as well as Cabinet Office and Tower Hamlets 215.3 119.5 other Government Departments, are receiving and processing requests for information, support and guidance about opportunities Waltham Forest 222.3 105.0 for mutualisation. Mutualisation projects are being driven by Wandsworth 281.8 94.2 employees across the public sector. The Cabinet Office pathfinder Westminster 234.1 118.4 programme includes cross-section of 21 projects to build awareness 1 ‘Ethnic minority’ is defined here as all ethnic groups other than of these opportunities. Pathfinders do not receive any financial ‘white British’. assistance from Cabinet Office, as such there is a not a formal 2 Estimates relate to mid-year (30 June 2007). applications process for becoming a Cabinet Office mutual pathfinder. Source: Population Estimates by Ethnic Group, Office for National Statistics New Businesses Table 2: 2001 Census estimates of the ‘ethnic minority’ population1 of London, Merton and Merton Park Ward, 20012 Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Thousand Office how many new businesses have been established ‘Ethnic minority’ in each region since June 2010. [39187] Area Total population population1

London 7,172.1 2,884.2 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Merton 187.9 67.5 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Merton Park 9.1 2.9 asked the authority to reply. 1 ‘Ethnic minority’ is defined here as all ethnic groups other than Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: ‘white British’. 2 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Estimates relate to Census day (29 April 2001). have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Source: how many new businesses have been established in each region Table KS06, 2001 Census, Office for National Statistics since June 2010. [39187] Internet Annual statistics on the number of enterprise births are available from the ONS release on Business Demography at: Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office www.statistics.gov.uk what research his Department has (a) commissioned However, information is not available for periods later than 2009. and (b) evaluated on the effect of use of the internet on The table below contains the latest statistics, which show the levels of social capital. [38370] number of enterprise births in 2009 by Government Office Region. Enterprise births 2009 by Government office region Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has neither commissioned Number nor evaluated any such research. North East 6,625 Job Security North West 23,920 Yorkshire and The Humber 17,005 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office East Midlands 14,860 what research his Department has (a) commissioned West Midlands 18,245 and (b) evaluated on the effect of (i) economic trends East of England 23,535 and (ii) trends in job security on levels of social trust. London 50,575 [38458] South East 36,320 Mr Hurd: The information requested is as follows: South West 17,945 Wales 8,325 (a) The Cabinet Office has not commissioned any research on Scotland 14,725 the effect of economic trends and trends in job security on levels of social trust. Northern Ireland 3,945 (b) The Cabinet Office has not evaluated any research on the Total 236,025 effect of economic trends and trends in job security on levels of social trust. Occupations

Mutual Pathfinder Fund Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what research his Department has (a) commissioned Chris Evans: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and (b) evaluated on levels of social trust in each major Office how many applications his Department received occupational group. [38316] to its mutual pathfinder fund to 31 January 2011. [38719] Mr Hurd: The information requested is as follows: (a) The Cabinet Office has not commissioned any specific Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office does not have a specific research into levels of social trust among major occupational initiative known as the ‘mutual pathfinder fund’. However, groups. there are two related areas of work which may be (b) The Cabinet Office has not made a recent assessment of relevant: levels of social trust among major occupational groups. 369W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 370W

Social Trust Mr Hurd: Business will play a crucial role in helping to build the big society: we need the commitment, Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office creativity and innovation of businesses to help tackle what assessment his Department has made of (a) levels the challenges that confront us. That is why the Government of and (b) trends in social trust in the last 30 years. have launched ‘Every Business Commits’, which asks [38372] business to do its part not just in creating economic growth but also by adding its expertise to tackling social Mr Hurd: The information is as follows: problems and building stronger communities. Every Business Commits goes beyond corporate social (a) The Cabinet Office has not made an assessment of levels of responsibility and calls on businesses to help create a social trust in the last 30 years. more sustainable and community-centred approach to (b) The Cabinet Office has not made an assessment of trends doing business. This might include investing in future in social trust in the last 30 years. skills, protecting the environment, supporting their local community, investing in employee wellbeing, and Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet encouraging the development of small and medium-sized Office what research his Department has (a) commissioned enterprises. and (b) evaluated on levels of (i) formal and (ii) informal sociability in the last 30 years. [38374] Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has neither commissioned which organisations have participated in consultation nor evaluated any such research. exercises related to the Government’s big society initiative; and if he will make a statement. [38461] Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment he has made of the potential Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office maintains close contribution of social trust to the development of the relationships with many organisations in relation to the big society initiative. [38377] big society. In particular, two recent Green Papers on ‘Modernising Commissioning’ and on ‘Giving’, and a Mr Hurd: The big society is about building stronger consultation on ‘Supporting a Stronger Civil Society’ communities, strengthening the links between individuals have drawn in a very good mix of responses from and enabling them to come together to solve problems frontline civil society organisations, local authorities in their local area. This will build on and develop and other public sector organisations, private businesses existing levels of social trust, and Government will and individuals, and academics. maintain ongoing relationships with communities as Summaries of these consultations will be published policy is developed. in due course.

Trading Systems Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what (a) opinion polls and (b) research his Department Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet has commissioned on its big society initiative; and if he Office what assessment his Department has made of will publish the results of each. [38468] trends in the number of local exchange trading systems since 1990. [38496] Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has not commissioned any opinion polls relating to Big Society. However, the Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has made no such Department is commissioning a series of evaluations to assessment. assess the effectiveness of policy initiatives relating to building a stronger civil society. For example, the Office for Civil Society is currently commissioning an evaluation Voluntary Organisations of National Citizen Service; the flagship initiative to support young people in becoming active and responsible Esther McVey: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet citizens. This evaluation is due to commence in spring Office what assessment has been made of the relationship 2011 and will assess the effectiveness of both the 2011 between the private and voluntary sectors as part of the and 2012 pilots in building a more responsible, cohesive Government’s big society initiative. [38328] and engaged society. It is currently too early to publish results from such Mr Hurd: The business community has a vital role in research, however in line with the Government’s the development of the big society and already makes a commitment to transparency, all research reports will significant contribution in supporting local voluntary be fully published, as they become available, at: and community organisations in a range of ways: sharing assets and expertise, philanthropic donations, and exchange www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk of staff. For example, the Prime Minister has called on businesses to train 1,000 ‘Business Connectors’ who can Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet help voluntary and community organisations become Office how many officials in his Department are engaged more innovative and entrepreneurial. in work related to the Government’s big society initiative. [38469] Esther McVey: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what account will be taken of corporate social Mr Hurd: The Office for Civil Society (OCS) leads responsibility as part of the Government’s big society the Government’s contribution to building the big society. initiative. [38329] It works right across Whitehall and beyond to translate 371W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 372W the big society vision into practical policies and deliver 20 years in the context of the development of the big a radical change in the relationship between the citizen society initiative. [39014] and the state. On 31 December 2010, 86 members of the OCS were Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office has not made a recent working on the big society issues. Staff work on a broad assessment of the trends in social trust in the British range of policy areas and are currently engaged on Social Attitudes Survey over the last 20 years. However, piloting the National Citizens Service with 30,000 young the Department is constantly reviewing sources of evidence people, building the big society bank, training 5,000 relating to the development of the big society, and will community organisers, delivering the £100 million Transition continue to incorporate data from a number of sources, Fund as well as policy development in the areas of including the British Social Attitude Survey, to inform philanthropy and giving, reforming public services, charity this analysis. law, volunteering, social enterprise and social investment. Voluntary Work: Young People Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what public consultation activity his Department Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet is undertaking on the big society initiative; and how Office what assessment he has made of levels of volunteering much his Department has allocated for such activities in among (a) children and (b) young adults; and whether (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12. [38470] he plans to promote volunteering to each such group. [38500] Mr Hurd: The Cabinet Office maintains close relationships with key stakeholders as policy is developed. Mr Hurd: Levels of volunteering in young people is The Giving Green Paper launched in December 2010 measured by the Citizenship Survey. In December 2010 is a public consultation document that forms part of the the Government published the “Giving Green Paper”, Big Society approach. Anyone with an interest in this which sought to start a debate about how we can make paper can respond by 9 March 2011. The Modernising social action and volunteering a social norm for all Commissioning Green Paper consultation closed on 5 ages. The Green Paper announced over £80 million January 2011. The Supporting a Stronger Civil Society available over the next four years to promote volunteering. consultation closed on 6 January 2011. The Government are also investing in National Citizen The costs of these consultations are absorbed into Service, which will promote volunteering and community the running costs of the Department, as an essential action. This flagship project is aimed at young people part of the policy development process. aged 16 and will combine outdoor activities and social action projects designed by the participants, both in Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet their communities and away from home. Over 11,000 Office what targets his Department has set to measure young people will have the opportunity to take part in a progress in its big society initiative. [38501] pilot NCS scheme over the summer. For young people specifically, the Cabinet Office will Mr Hurd: The big society is about building stronger also continue to provide financial support to the youth communities, strengthening the links between individuals volunteering charity, v during the 2010 spending review and enabling them to come together to solve problems period. in their local area. There are no targets in place to measure big society, although officials are considering Young People innovative ways of tracking the progress of big society, without imposing reporting burdens on local initiatives. Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what information the Office for National Statistics Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet collects on the average number of hours per day people Office if he will assess the effects on the development of aged between (a) five and 15 years, (b) 16 and 19 years the Government’s big society initiative of changes in and (c) 20 and 25 years spend alone. [38384] the level of social cohesion in areas subject to de-industrialisation. [39011] Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Andrew Stunell: I have been asked to reply. asked the authority to reply. The development of the big society is part of the Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: Government’s agenda to decentralise power to local As Director General for the Office for National Statistics areas. The Localism Bill, currently receiving parliamentary (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question scrutiny, sets out many of the provisions which will asking what information ONS collects on the average number of underpin this process. Decisions on local issues affecting hours per day people aged between (a) five and 15 years, (b) 16 social cohesion will be increasingly put into the hands and 19 years and (c) 20 and 25 spend alone (38384). of local communities, and the measures we are taking In 2000, ONS conducted the UK Time Use Survey, which to encourage local transparency of local government aimed to measure the amount of time spent by the UK population services, data, and expenditure will further enable these on various activities and who they were with when undertaking communities to take an informed role in these decisions, those activities. Children under the age of 8 were not included in the survey. The wording of the questionnaire means that one and assess progress locally. cannot distinguish between spells when children were alone and when they were with people they did not know. Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet ONS published figures only for the following age groups: 8 to Office if he will assess the effects of trends in social 13 years, 14-15 years and 16 years and above. It showed that trust in the British Social Attitudes Survey in the last people aged: 373W Written Answers9 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 374W

8 to 13 years spent an average of 35 minutes per person per Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: day, alone or with people they did not know; 14 to 15 years spent an average of 81 minutes per person per As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I day, alone or with people they did not know; have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question relating to average number of hours per day spent by (a) boys and (b) girls 16 or over spent an average of 194 minutes per person per day, in watching television (38385). alone or with people they did not know. This is the latest information available. In 2000, ONS conducted the UK Time Use Survey that aimed to measure the amount of time spent by the UK population on The Time-Use Survey, ONS. various activities. The survey showed that on average: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=9326 boys aged between 8 and 15 spent 134 minutes per day watching Young People: Television TV and an additional 6 minutes watching videos or dvds.

Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet girls aged between 8 and 15 spent 131 minutes per day watching TV and an additional 7 minutes watching videos or dvds. Office what estimate the Office for National Statistics makes of the average number of hours per day spent by In 2005 a further time use diary was collected on a much (a) boys and (b) girls on watching television. [38385] smaller scale, using a pre-coded diary as part of the NS Omnibus survey. This survey only asked questions to adults.

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the The Time-Use Survey, ONS. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=9326

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 9 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 281 PRIME MINISTER ...... 290 Economic Affairs ...... 289 Engagements...... 290 Economic Development...... 288 Engagements...... 296 Police Service of Northern Ireland...... 284 Nuclear Deterrent ...... 295 Security...... 286 Stop-and-search Powers ...... 283 Value Added Tax...... 281 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 9 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 9WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 11WS Council Tax ...... 9WS Counter-Terrorism Legislation Review...... 11WS Research Projects ...... 10WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 9 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 280W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 246W Departmental Information Officers ...... 280W Audit Commission: Publications...... 246W Council Housing...... 246W Departmental Information Officers ...... 247W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 288W Departmental Libraries...... 247W Apprentices: Greater London ...... 288W Fire Commissioners ...... 248W Apprentices: Pay ...... 299W Housing: Construction...... 248W BP...... 299W Local Government ...... 248W Departmental Information Officers ...... 299W Local Government : Manpower ...... 249W Departmental Security ...... 302W Park Homes: Ownership ...... 249W Export Credit Guarantees: Egypt ...... 302W Planning Inspectorate ...... 249W Higher Education: Females...... 302W Quarrying: Stoke on Trent ...... 249W Higher Education: Foreign Investment in UK ...... 307W Regional Planning and Development...... 250W Innovation: Manufacturing Industries ...... 308W Sheltered Housing...... 251W Money Lenders: Interest Rates ...... 308W Sheltered Housing: Private Sector ...... 251W Students: Fees and Charges...... 308W Supported Housing: Older People...... 251W Supermarkets: Competition ...... 309W UN Special Representative on Business: Human Rights ...... 309W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 234W Universities ...... 309W Arts: Employment...... 234W Broadband ...... 234W Coastal Areas: Hotels ...... 235W CABINET OFFICE...... 357W Cultural Relations: Australia ...... 235W Charitable Donations...... 357W Departmental Manpower...... 235W Childbirth ...... 357W Gambling: Internet ...... 235W Citizens Advice: Manpower ...... 359W Museums and Galleries...... 236W Civic Society Initiatives...... 359W Museums, Libraries and Archives Council...... 239W Community Relations ...... 359W National Lottery: Operating Costs...... 240W Deaths: Carbon Monoxide...... 360W Telecommunications: Visual Impairment...... 240W Deaths: Prostate Cancer...... 360W Theatres: Repairs and Maintenance...... 241W Ethnic Groups: Greater London...... 365W Trade Unions ...... 241W Internet ...... 367W Job Security ...... 367W Mutual Pathfinder Fund...... 367W DEFENCE...... 252W New Businesses ...... 368W Chinook Helicopters...... 252W Occupations ...... 368W European Defence Agency...... 252W Social Trust...... 369W Nuclear Weapons...... 252W Trading Systems...... 369W O’Brien and Associates ...... 253W Voluntary Organisations ...... 369W Russia: Submarines...... 253W Voluntary Work: Young People...... 372W Strategic Defence and Security Review ...... 253W Young People ...... 372W War Crimes: Organs...... 254W Young People: Television ...... 373W Weapons ...... 254W Col. No. Col. No. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 340W HEALTH...... 262W Alternative Vote: Referendums...... 340W Departmental Information Officers ...... 262W Departmental Security ...... 265W EDUCATION...... 340W Doctors: Foreign Workers...... 265W Children: Asthma...... 340W Doctors: Working Hours ...... 265W Children: Autism...... 341W General Practitioners ...... 265W Children’s Centres...... 341W Health Services ...... 266W Departmental Domestic Visits ...... 342W Hospitals: Coventry ...... 266W Education: Finance...... 342W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 267W Education Maintenance Allowace: Wallasey...... 342W Medical Equipment: Counterfeit Manufacturing... 267W Free School Meals: Kingswood...... 344W Monitor ...... 267W Further Education: Finance...... 343W National Institute for Health and Clinical GCSE: Science ...... 345W Excellence ...... 269W Higher Education: Arts...... 345W NHS Commissioning Board ...... 269W Schools: Greater London...... 345W NHS: Finance ...... 269W Special Educational Needs...... 346W NHS: Standards...... 269W Students: Loans ...... 346W Prostate Cancer...... 269W Teachers: Intimidation ...... 347W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 347W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 334W Young People: Unemployment...... 348W Asylum ...... 334W Carbon Monoxide: Poisoning ...... 335W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 353W Deportation: Illegal Immigrants ...... 335W Departmental Information Officers ...... 353W Drugs: Bolivia...... 336W Departmental Procurement...... 353W Electronic Tagging ...... 336W Electric Cables ...... 354W Illegal Immigrants...... 336W Energy...... 355W Illegal Immigrants: Asylum...... 338W Energy: Subsidies ...... 355W Immigration: Appeals ...... 339W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 355W Immigration Controls ...... 334W Third Internal Energy Package ...... 355W Immigration Controls ...... 339W Wind Power ...... 356W Offences against Children: Care Homes...... 340W

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 229W AFFAIRS...... 273W Parliamentary Information and Communications Animal Products: Imports...... 273W Technology Service ...... 229W Animal Welfare ...... 274W Bees: Pesticides...... 274W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 272W Common Fisheries Policy ...... 275W Departmental Information Officers ...... 272W Dangerous Dogs ...... 275W Developing Countries: Agriculture ...... 272W Departmental Civil Servants ...... 275W Developing Countries: Government Securities...... 273W Environment ...... 276W Turks and Caicos Islands: Finance...... 273W Environment: Public Expenditure ...... 276W Farming: Salmon ...... 276W JUSTICE...... 241W Forestry Commission...... 277W Courts: Sunderland...... 241W Forests ...... 277W Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority...... 242W Land: Christchurch...... 277W Departmental Information Officers ...... 242W Litter...... 278W Legal Aid: Immigration and Asylum ...... 243W Shellfish ...... 278W Magna Carta: Anniversaries ...... 245W Squirrels...... 279W Pleural Plaques: Compensation...... 246W Sustainable Development Commission ...... 279W Wildlife: Crime...... 279W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 340W Departmental Information Officers ...... 340W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 254W British Nationals Abroad: Homicide ...... 254W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 286W Commonwealth: Sexuality ...... 255W Capital Investment...... 287W Departmental Information Officers ...... 255W Corporation Tax ...... 288W Egypt: Museums and Galleries ...... 256W Departmental Information Officers ...... 288W Embassies: London Congestion Charge...... 256W Economic Affairs ...... 287W Gilad Shalit...... 257W Fuel Prices ...... 286W Hong Kong: Passports ...... 257W Human Trafficking ...... 287W Iran: Guided Weapons ...... 257W Inward Investment ...... 287W Iran: Sanctions...... 258W Iran: Sexuality...... 258W PRIME MINISTER ...... 273W Middle East: Peace Negotiations...... 258W Pharmaceutical Industry...... 273W Pakistan: Overseas Aid ...... 259W Recruitment ...... 259W SCOTLAND...... 229W Sri Lanka: Armed Conflict ...... 259W Departmental Information Officers ...... 229W Sudan: Referendums ...... 260W Turks and Caicos Islands: Finance...... 260W TRANSPORT ...... 230W United Nations: Finance...... 260W Departmental Food...... 230W United Nations: Recruitment...... 261W Departmental Libraries...... 230W Zimbabwe: Politics and Government ...... 261W High Speed 2: Finance ...... 230W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT—continued WALES—continued London and Southeastern Railway: Fares...... 230W Iron and Steel: Industry ...... 271W Maritime and Coastguard Agency: Closures...... 231W Science: Finance...... 271W Oil: Emergencies ...... 231W Sea Rescue ...... 232W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 310W Transport: Co-operatives ...... 232W Asbestos...... 310W Transport: Snow and Ice ...... 233W Asbestos: Enforcement...... 310W Trust Ports ...... 233W Asbestos: Publicity...... 311W Atos Origin ...... 312W TREASURY ...... 279W Carbon Monoxide: Poisoning ...... 313W Bank of England: Public Appointments ...... 281W Carers’ Benefits...... 314W Banks: Iceland ...... 281W Children: Maintenance ...... 314W Child Benefit...... 281W Departmental Information Officers ...... 318W Child Care Tax Credit...... 282W Departmental Manpower...... 319W Credit Unions ...... 282W Departmental Pay ...... 320W Debts: Advisory Services...... 282W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 320W Economic Situation...... 283W Disability Living Allowance...... 321W EU Grants and Loans...... 283W Disability Living Allowance: Mobility ...... 323W Financial Inclusion Fund...... 283W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 323W Financial Institutions: Incentives ...... 279W Health and Safety: Heating...... 324W Financial Services Authority...... 284W Housing Benefit ...... 324W Financial Services: Taxation ...... 284W Incapacity Benefit ...... 324W Intergenerational Equity ...... 284W Industrial Health and Safety...... 325W National Income ...... 285W Minimum Wage ...... 327W Public Expenditure...... 285W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 327W Public Finance ...... 285W Pensions...... 327W Public Sector: Redundancy ...... 286W Redundancy: Asbestos...... 328W VAT: Gravestones...... 286W Social Security Benefits...... 328W Social Security Benefits: Medical Examinations..... 329W WALES...... 270W Social Security Benefits: Osteoarthritis ...... 329W Coal: Industry...... 270W Telephone Services...... 330W Departmental Information Officers ...... 270W Work Capability Assessment...... 330W Foreign Investment in UK: Higher Education ...... 270W Work Capability Assessment: Appeals ...... 333W Higher Education...... 271W Work Capability Assessment: Atos ...... 334W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Wednesday 9 February 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 281] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Prime Minister

Flood Defence Allocations [Col. 301] Answer to urgent question—(Richard Benyon)

Banking [Col. 310] Statement—(Chancellor of the Exchequer)

Trade and Investment for Growth White Paper [Col. 328] Statement—(Vince Cable)

Former Metal Mines [Col. 342] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Tom Blenkinsop)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Police [Col. 345] Motion—(Nick Herbert)—on a Division, agreed to

Local Government Finance [Col. 383] Motion—(Mr Pickles)—on a Division, agreed to

Petitions [Col. 433]

Domestic Heating Oil [Col. 434] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Financial Stabilisation Mechanism [Col. 443] Motion, on a deferred Division, agreed to

Police [Col. 445] Motion, on a deferred Division, agreed to

Taxation of the Financial Sector [Col. 449] Motion, on a deferred Division, agreed to

Westminster Hall Neuromuscular Care (North-West) [Col. 77WH] Unscrupulous Builders [Col. 97WH] Flood Risk Management [Col. 105WH] Citizens Advice Bureaux (Birmingham) [Col. 129WH] Hospital Services (Shropshire) [Col. 138WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 9WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 229W] [see index inside back page]