glanced over at Sheck. He was again but you can't see what's in the back of a lost in thought, staring blankly into cave unless you go there. There's a special the night. It had been fascinating feeling when you know no one else has listening to him discuss the facts and been there before. And it's an extra special figures of the dive, but what I really feeling when you know no one has ever wanted to hear about were the things that go been that far. I enjoy that feeling. Don inside his head when he’s buried under hundreds of feet of water, inside a rock EXLEY ac: Your Nacimiento Mante dive must crevice, on the very edge of life, and still have been like that? going on. "How are you going to decide when you have gone deep enough? ”1 asked. SE: It was frightening. I'd use the term “Fear. ” Sheck answered immediately as if he "physiological roulette "to describe my had been patiently waiting for such a four Mante dives. The first to 520 fsw in question. ” 1987 was probably the most frightening. It Ned Deloach, The Deepest Dive ON was really stepping out into no-man's land as far as the western hemisphere was To say that Sheck Exley is not your average concerned. Jochen Hassenmayer of course 42 year old high school algebra teacher is a had been deeper at Fontaine de Vaucluse. bit more than understatement. By vocation, he is in fact a teacher at Suwannee a/c: Was Mante your first big mix dive? Highschool in Live Oak, Florida. By avocation he is an explorer, pioneer, and educator has MIX SE: I had done practice dives of course; become a diving legend. An interview by 130 fsw at Cathedral and 260 fsw at Certified in scuba at the age of Michael Menduno Holton Springs. Dale Sweet's 360 fsw sixteen, Exley became the first person to log trimix dive at Diepolder back in 1981 was a thousand cave dives accomplishing this the only dive in the western hemisphere feat in less than seven years. Over the nearly that was close to it. In the eastern two and a half decades that have followed, hemisphere, there was Jochen's dives. He Exley has explored and surveyed most of the a/c: When did you start diving Sheck? had been to 660 fsw which gave me a lot world's known deep water cave systems, of confidence. pioneered many of the methods and SE: I got started in 1965 but I didn't really techniques of deep air and special mix scuba, start keeping a log until February, 1966 a/c: You knew it was doable. and in the process has repeatedly redefined when I went on my checkout dive with the limits of self-contained diving; his 131/2 Ken Brock. He taught me how to dive. SE: I knew it was doable. I had dived with hour dive to 870 fsw at El Nacimento de Rio That first dive we went down and I stuck Jochen. He's an extremely impressive being one example. my head under a coral ledge, what you diver, as good as any I have dived with. Exley's exploits and dedication have might call a coral cave, maybe 16 feet deep The fact that I had actually met the man earned him the reputation of being one of (chuckles). Wasn't much of anything, and and dived with him made me feel a bit the finest divers in the world, and have I really didn't enjoy it. But then Ken took more confident. Decompression tables helped shaped the development modern me to Crystal River and I really got turned were a problem of course. There was cave diving, regarded by many as a model on. I didn't have a light or anything so I nothing available. I had never heard of Bill for specialized training. A teacher and soft kinda wandered off into the cavern there, Hamilton at the time. Fortunately I was spoken educator, Exley helped to establish my eyes adjusted and I swam a little bit able to get a hold of some commercial the National Speological Society's Cave further, peering off into the darkness. I tables that Jim Melton got for me as a Diving Division (NSS-CDS) in 1973, has guess I’ve been peering off into that model. published over 100 articles and six books on darkness ever since. the subject of his passion, lectures a/c: You used commercial tables? extensively, and currently offers a mixed gas a/c: You've made some incredible divesin training program for experienced divers your career; your Salute the Flag dive at SE: No, I had to extrapolate them; the throughout the community. Diepolder II to 360 fsw on air, Wakulla, El tables stopped at 400 feet. I had to take the Perhaps pioneers like Exley will Nacimiento de Rio Mante to 870 fsw, your model and extrapolate beyond that. I did always remain an enigma. An explorer and 10,939 foot penetration at Cathedral, why the same thing on the 660 fsw dive two athlete of the highest magnitude­ do you do what you do? months later. combining physical ability with the psychological stamina necessary to venture SE: I'm not sure. My motivation has a/c: You know a lot of people would say, where few will ever go—to others perhaps, changed a lot over the years. I grew up “8heck's nuts." Why would he construct his he is seen as a thrill seeker or daredevil. diving, and as a teenager I wanted to be own decompression tables; isn't that just Recently aquaCorps caught up with Exley important and to be thought of as fool-hardy and crazy? hoping to try to explain and reconcile the important. I went through a stage where I many stories that have grown up around the wanted to see how deep I could go. Then I SE: Isn't that basically what everyone man, to understand his motivation, to get went through a stage to see how far I does? inside his head. The results were more than could go. I still enjoy that. we had anticipated. Exley on mix? Perhaps There are places that no one else has been a/c: Ha! Good point. ithe best way to explain is simply to start at to since the dawn of time. We can't see the beginning. —M. Menduno & B Skerry what's there. We can see what's on the SE: I may not be the world's greatest dark side of the moon or what's on Mars, mathematician, but mathematics is my profession and I have a degree in some unique physiology when I was current the whole time. / got cold. computers; both of them lend themselves younger, and a lot of conservatism as I get Fortunately the chemical heaters I was quite well to figuring out a decompression older. Fear. using kept me alive. After that, schedule. I'm sure Bill Hamilton wouldn't decompression at Mante, in 78 degree do it quite the way I did. But then I did a/c: The decompression times you pulled water seemed pretty easy as far as time have a vested interest in doing a good job. on your Mante dives are so amazing, ten went. As you know, with helium mixes I hours plus for your 780 foot jump and was making about fifty odd stops all of a/c: You were the one on the line. more on your last one to 870 fsw. them relatively short. The time passed very quickly and I had plenty to keep me busy SE: I wouldn't begin to say that I could SE: ( Pulls out his log) My 520 foot dive including wondering if all the little twitchs construct better decompression tables than required 7 hours and 30 minutes of were going to be bends, CNS toxicity, or Bill Hamilton, Angel Soto or Randy Bohrer, decompression for a 15 bottom time. Two just my old bones getting tired. all of whom later worked with me. I don't months later, the 660 foot dive for 24 have the information to make that minutes took 11 hours and 13 minutes. a/c: You did it in a wetsuit? statement. But it was all 1 had to work with The following year I made my dive to 780 at the time. fsw using Bill's tables which were only 10 SE: No, a drysuit. hours and 43 minutes for a 24 minute a/c: There's a myth out there—a subtle bottom time. Besides the fact I was more a/c: Diapers or a catheter? one, but it's still their—that decom­ confident in the safety factor in his tables, pression tables represent some kind of he got me out of the water quicker. My SE: No, I just cut it loose. Those are the truth, as opposed to what they are; peoples most recent dive to 870 fsw for 23 minutes only dives I use that drysuit for. And I guesses as to what will work based on had a decompression of 13 hours and 30 enjoy having the back-up buoyancy experience. minutes. compensation the dry suit provides. I sure wouldn't want to be down at 900 fsw SE: That's exactly right. I tell people early without buoyancy. on in my mixed gas course that it's "I've never had important to realize that any decom­ anything other than a/c: Are you scared or anxious before your pression table is just a mathematical model big dives ? based on a poorly understood maybe skin bends. It's a physiological phenomena. The degree that SE: Up until the time I get in the water, the model is valid for a given exposure is combination of a lot of I’m scared. I'm sure I get as scared as any the degree to which you do or you don't luck, probably some diver there was. In fact, I got so scared the get bent. A lot of the early models were night before my Mante dive—I’m not sure very simple, like a kid with building blocks unique physiology when I what caused it—I actually became — not much to them. Of course they’ve was younger, and a lot of physically ill. I don’t know whether it was become more sophisticated now, but their a short little bug or what. The way I success still depends on whether or not conservatism as I get control it is through meditation. I they work. older. Fear." meditate for ten minutes back in the cave before I start down; that clears my head of a/c: Have you ever been bent? all that stuff. a/c: How do you prepare for a decom­ SE: Never.Well, sometimes when I'm pression like that? It must have physically a/c: When you were in the water did you wearing a dry suit and woolen underwear, and mentally grueling? think about all the things that could go I’ve surfaced with what may have been SE: From the standpoint of getting my wrong or do you just deal with things as skin bends, but I don't know. I've never tissues prepared, Bill Hamilton suggested they happen? had anything other than skin bends. It's a that I make a deep dive, but not too combination of a lot of luck, probably extensive, the day before just to get my SE: I spent roughly nine months in tissues limbered up. That worked out real preparation for my last dive at Mante, in well with my plans because my profile addition to my previous dives there. You called for me to stage three bottles of play " what if " and try to think of every decompression gas at 330 feet. We didn’t possible thing that could go wrong, and want to do any mix dives before the big figure out all the little variations. You one because of the possibility of getting make plans and redundant plans to handle bent which would mess up the whole those things, and rehearse, rehearse, expedition, so I did the dive on air and got rehearse. And then when you make the my tissues ready. dive, it's all business. Your mind is totally As far as being psychologically occupied with everything that has to ready for the tedium of the thing, I was happen. A lot of it has to happen very just coming off a record penetration at quickly. It's mental conditioning. I Chip's Hole near Tallahasee, Florida, for wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for 10, 444 feet, which was the longest dive I that. ever made; 14 hours in 69 degree water with a wetsuit. a/c: 1 heard your watch went dead during one of your deep decompression stops? a/c: You survived! SE: What made it worse was that I was in a SE: It was the 520 foot dive and it didn't stop; I lost my watch on the dive and I SE: I had lots of help. Jochen shared some air dive to 465 fsw which almost cost me wound up counting all my deeper stops information. Dale Sweet shared everything my life. I couldn't reach them and nobody from 260 fsw in my head. Fortunately, I've he knew and supported me with else could either. They knew going into known CPR since I was 16, so that second, equipment. Paul De Loach, my regular the dive that their profile was not ideal. "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, three- diving partner, maybe the best cave diver There were safety factors that they had one-thousand..." is ingrained in my we have, helped me; Mary Ellen Eckoff, counted on that were compromised at the memory; but when your talking about a Tom Morris, Paul Smith, Paul Heinerth, last minute under the pressure from the thirty minute stop, you're counting on Mexico's top two divers, Sergio Zambrano, sponsorship, the media and this whole your fingers. Eventually my safety diver, expedition scenario. They compromised Mary Ellen Eckoff, who's probably one of their safety procedures and died as a result. the best cave divers in the world, and by "Now days, the only I never want to be in that far the best female, came to check on me situation. That's why I keep my at my 80 foot stop and brought me a rational recommendation is involvement small. I don't want a lot of watch. to build yourself up to where big sponsors. I don't want a lot of divers around. Those that are involved are close a/c: Let me ask you the obvious question; you can do your air dives to friends and I tell them up front, “We might why weren't you wearing a back-up? 200 feet; than after 200 do just be going to Mexico for a long drive, turn around and come back. If I'm sick, or just don't SE: It was dumb on my part. After that, I your helium diving." feel right, or if a light goes out at the wrong carried three watches on each dive, and 1 time, whatever, the dive's over." had another one waiting for me at 520 feet with an additional depth guage. Back-up, a/c: I understand you were nervous about back-up, back-up. and Angel Soto, who headed up my getting involved with mix in the support teams, Randy Bohrer, and of beginning. a/c: What about the cave itself? course Bill Hamilton, the list just goes on and on. SE: My best friend back in the early 70's SE: It's real involved. What helps is having was probably Lewis Holtzendorf. Gosh, he gone there before. I don't think anyone's a/c: You know there's an old joke running was one of the best we had back in the going to down and add to my line anytime around. People ask me all the time, "What early and mid-70s. Lewis made a mixed gas soon, although it's only a matter of time kind of regulators did Sheck use on his Mante dive at Wakulla with Court Smith. They before someone goes goes out there and dives?." Answer: Every one he could get his were diving heliox, and using the US Navy does it. It would be very difficult however hands on. Obviously rigging 30 some helium/oxygen tables which called for the for someone who's never been there before cylinders took a fair bit of equipment, not use of pure 02 at 50 feet. We know now, to jump in the water at Mante and go to to mention gas. Did you have any that was asinine, but back then they the bottom. You really have to build up to sponsors? thought the profile was safe, and discussed it. And then there's a lot of intricacies. For it with one of the Navy people at the example, the cave is not really designed for SE: Early in my career, I guess it was Experimental Dive Unit (EDU). As it decompression. You have a strong current around December, 1970,1 was involved as turned out, Lewis convulsed and died. His blasting upwards and very jagged sharp a safety diver in a record deep air dive partner almost did too. That was 1975. ledges,but not as many as you'd like. attempt down in the Bahamas. There was a There were other incidents. Hal That's where you have to hang your lot of those going on at the time; Watts had tried to do a body recovery in decompression tanks. The passages are sponsorships, calling in the news media, an open sink in Orlando on heliox and got very narrow; some of them too narrow to getting official Bahamian folks to come severly bent in the process. After that, go through. If you drop anything it's gone and witness the thing, all that kind of Frank Fogarty, Terry Moore and Rodger and you have to plan your gas carefully. stuff. It put a lot of pressure on the divers. Miller made a 325 foot run in a Missouri I try to design everything around As a result of the pressure, two divers never sink, in 1978, on trimix and got severely the thirds rule. I overestimate my came up. That's when I made my famous hypothermic. We were all looking and breathing rate at all levels and provided a third cushion based on the deepest possible dive profile/diving time combination I thought I'd get. I also design my mixtures to stay within the oxygen toxicity envelope, both CNS and " whole body”, raising the oxygen and nitrogen levels as I go up. Generally I try to run my nitrogen levels as high as tolerable, and switch over at 280 fsw from air to deep mix on the way down, and from deep mix to air on the way up. I used two deep mixes this last time, 13 mixes in all. And I do a lot of other things as well. I worry about diet before the dive and during the dive.

a/c: How about your support team? thinking, my god, what's going on. You I'm not aware of any helium tables that are step up, borrow the money and buy one. I have to understand, the world depth as reliable as some of the air tables that are did. Bill Stone once made the observation record for cave diving was only 340 fsw available. The decompression is more that he wasn't aware of any explorers that back in 1977 and it stayed that way until reasonable and you can decompress closer died rich. Sweet made his successful trimix dive at to the surface. If you can do a dive on air, Diepolder in 1980. It was Jochen's dives or an appropriate enriched air mix, and do a/c: What does it take to be a cave that got me thinking that mixed gas might it safely, you ought to do it. explorer? be done safely. a/c: What about people going deeper? SE: You have to love it. You have to love a/c: Sheck, you've done a lot of deep air the diving. Loving recognition is not diving over the course of your career; SE: It's obvious that there's an enormous enough. That wears off. That's why you see you've mentioned quite a few deep air amount of interest has been generated, such a high instructor dropout rate. The dives over the last half hour. What are the particularly now with the advent of mix ones that got in it because it's another practical limits of air? gas diving. Back in the 60's and 70's we merit badge and everyone around thought used to try as instructors to tell everyone it was a big deal—it wears off. You see it SE: You have to understand, I've built up a there's not much to see beyond 130 feet. over and over again in diving. When I got lot of experience and tolerance to nitrogen Of course it depends on what you're started in diving back in the sixties, I over the last 25 years, and what works for interested in seeing. We've all known from wanted to be special. I grew out of that me might not work for everyone. In the the beginning of cave diving in Florida, and got to where I just loved diving, and early days air was all we had and we didn't that the most beautiful and interesting that's what kept me going. If I hadn't I have the knowledge we had today. If I caves are all deeper than 130 fsw. It's sad. would have quit a long time ago. were starting again, I'd probably do things You know we tell people, "Don't go below a lot different. 130", and then we turn right around and a/c: Love. Perhaps that really is the key to Today, I think you have to look at do it ourselves. All cave diving instructors it all. What's your advice for people who each individual environment and dive deeper than 130 feet. want to expand their diving capabilities? application and judge it on that basis. There are quite a few people SE: Don't forget the basics. Make who are teaching deep air technique sure you have plenty of gas, make these days, I know Hal Watts,Tom sure you know the way back, and Mount and I do and there's others. make damn sure if you're going With those techniques, basically into nitrogen land or helium land, anyone can be taught to dive to 200 you know what you're doing. fsw. Beyond that it becomes an individual thing. a/c: How about you? Who do you Now days, the only rational look to for inspiration? recommendation is to build yourself up to where you can do your air SE: There's a book by Roland dives to 200 feet; than after 200 do Huntford called Last Place On Earth your helium diving. There's no which contrasts the exploration longer any point to build ourselves styles of Robert Falcon Scott and up to 300 foot dives on air, because Roald Amundson in their drive to most people can't possibly handle it ------reach the South Pole. Scott was the to that extent; it's just one of those I think it's more realistic to try to guy with all the money, recognition, individual things. Trying to build up establish some guidelines for people who power and supplies, which he arrogantly beyond 200 feet, you're taking chances. want to venture deeper, rather than say, threw at the problem. Amundson was poor Maybe you can handle it, maybe you can't. "Don't!", and be seen as hypocrites. and didn't have much, but he carefully Otherwise people will begin to think, thought out everything, every little step of a/c: Physiological roulette? "Well, if that rule isn't worth paying the way with infinite preparation. He attention to, maybe they all aren't." listened to everyone for advise, even the SE: Exactly. I was one of the lucky ones, or Eskimos who Scott thought were ignorant perhaps,unlucky ones. a/c: Deep diving is getting more expensive savages who couldn't possibly have any Do you think that will limit people? ideas. The end result was that Amundson a/c: Is air technology dead? got to the South Pole first and Scott wound SE: Diving is a much more expensive up killing himself and a lot of other SE: I don't think so. I think there will pursuit now then it's ever been. And when people. I think Amundson provides a always be a use for air. Hal Watts really got the rebreathers start coming out—Bill tremendous role model for explorers and the deeper air stuff started from the Stone's probably real close to having a divers. viewpoint of trying to acclimate to higher fully redundant closed circuit system now partial pressures of nitrogen, but as- we —it's gonna be even more expensive. a/c: What are your diving plans Sheck? continue to learn more, like some of the Quite frankly, the people who want to do SE: I have a cave real close to me here on amazing stuff Bret Gilliam's doing, it will these dives are going to find the money to my property. In fact, it's under my feet as make it easier for the rest of us to dive to do them. I remember when scooters first we talk. The last time I went diving there I 200 feet, maybe more. Let's face it: we came out. Shoot, I didn't have any money. was over two miles underground and the have a lot of experience with air and we're But I realized if I wanted to continue to do more comfortable with the decompression. the type of diving I wanted to do, I had to EXLEY ON MIX condinued from page 66 thing was still 50 feet wide and 20 feet high and going strong. No fellin' how far personnel associated with a given dive Robert Seitz it goes. I haven't seen that anywhere else. operation. Specific requirements depend of Metro Dade Police All these other Florida caves start course on the operational parameters of Underwater Recovery Unit branching out, getting smaller; this one the dive. Interestingly enough, technical just keeps on going and going and going. diving may require greater training and We ’ve been working hard over the last year I'd like to see what's back there, but I'm knowledge at a diver level than the to find the formula with regards to format, commercial industry, since the diver has to content, advertising etc., that will allow us not sure I'll be able to do it with the plan and manage his or her own gas supply, to provide quality information to our technology we have right now. A lot of our mix, decompression etc. Something to think subscribers on a consistent basis, and at technology may be obsolete here in a short about. —a/c the same time will represent value for your while. money. Our current subscriber plan gives For The Masses Or The Classes you seven issues in total (four newsletters, I guess you're gonna have to borrow a/c: aquaCorps has been a new frame of two journals and one guide) versus the some more money and plunk it down on reference where divers like myself can original six. We appreciate your patience one of Stone's rebreathers. honestly start talking about issues totally and willingness to work with us on this ignored by the typical sport diver and their issue, particularly those brave souls who SE: And then there's hydrogen. From what certification agencies. Having said that signed up at the beginning. We are I've been learned there seems to be some however, I must express a concern that has definitely keeping you in mind. —a/c real potential for hydreliox though no one surfaced, no pun intended. has looked at it's use for deep bounce I know it is necessary to define the limits of If All Else Fails Call 1-800 - dives. With the kind of compression rates I scuba by demonstrating what the ultimate Having perused a copy of DEEP, courtesy of was dealing with at Mante, you need the fringe is up to. It makes for exciting reading my Poseidon / Zeagle rep, I entered my heavy nitrogen to avoid HPNS, but I'd and interesting conversations. However I subscription to your journal and have yet to rather have the hydrogen. hope that after demonstrating these limits receive anything. Every day I’ve trekked to over the next few issues, aquaCorps will my mailbox ardently hoping for my copy of a/c: What about Mante; are you planning not become a journal exclusively for those what appears to be a well-written, highly to dive any deeper? technical divers who are professionally interesting, topical and thought provoking funded to levels unattainable by the journal all to no avail. Each day yields greater disappointment, " Have they SE: I've had opportunities to go deeper, majority of other technical divers. Frank Novak forgotten me? Have I been left by the but it looks real unlikely with my Mentor, Ohio wayside in this increasingly complex advancing age that I'll go back down there. technological society? Is it just that they I'd like to see more people go as deep as We can all learn from the big projects and don’t like the way I spell my name?’’ It’s I've been in Mante before I go too much the experiences of the individuals who are come to the point I’m holding a suicide further. Since Jochen got the bends so bad working the envelope; that's where the prevention hotline number in one hand, and he had to quit diving, there is no one else development work is going on. The “flicking my Bic” near my oxygen filled who's been beyond 500 fsw. important thing to realize is that the aluminum 80 with the other. The time is You know it's funny, on my last two methods and much of the technology ticking down.Please send me a copy of your Mante dives, my first decompression stops they're utilizing is now becoming available publication post haste. were at 520 feet. Only one other person to all of us. Our focus will be to help you Sign me forlorn In Escondido, had ever been that deep and here I was understand the latest thinking and Perry Armor making a decompression stop. How crazy developments, relate the experiences of Escondido, CA can I be? I'd like to see Jim King and some leading divers and practitoners, and help of the others start diving to 500 feet, then you apply it to your own diving environment Dear Forlorn, I'd feel better about going a little deeper. and application. And have some fun to boot Enclosed is your copy of the journal. My .That’s our rock’n’roll strategy. Please let apologies for the wait. Because of our small a/c: Five hundred feet. A thousand feet. us know how how we 're doing. —a/c staffing level, we often wait to accumulate Pretty heady stuff. What do you think the orders and process them in batchs. ultimate limit is? Keeping Our Subscribers In Mind Sometimes this causes delays, a situation Like PFM , my long awaited issue arrived in we’re working to gradually improve. If you the mail. It was a pleasure to read it, but I think we might have missed your order, SE: There is no limit. We'll always find a have a question with regards to your newly please call our toll free number and leave a way to go deeper and deeper. That's been revised subscription offer at the the back of detailed message and your address (it’s the pattern all along.Ten years from now, the journal. My interpetation of this often difficult and expensive to return calls) twenty years from now, people will be information is that this latest issue of the or drop us a line. How high do you have that doing things we've never dreamed of. And journal will be my second and I will only be “oxygen-cleaned” 80 pumped to anyway? — I see no reason for it to change. receiving two more for my $39. Originally, I a/c understood that I would receive six issues Sheck Exley can be contacted at Rt 8, Box 373, with my subscription. I hope that your intial Live Oak, FL 32060, where he teachs cave and subscribers who paid $39 under the Letters to should be addressed to: mixed gas courses. His books, include, Basic premise that they would receive six issues aquaCorps, 590 Se 12th St, Suite Cave Diving: A Blueprint For Survival will be kept in mind as future issues 301, Dania Beach, FL 33004 approach. Looking forward to the best of the best.