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JFK Assassination System Date: 5/19/201 Identification Form
Agency Information AGENCY: FBI RECORD NUMBER : 124-10278-10340
RECORD SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FlLE NUtv1BER : 92-6054-771
Document Information ORIGINATOR: FBI FROM: SAC, PH TO: DIRECTOR, FBI
TITLE:
DATE : 10/01/1964 ' PAGES: 21
SUBJECTS: LCN, MEMBERS, TRANSCRIPT, CONVERSATION, COMMISSION DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFlCA TION : Unclassified RESlRJCTIONS : 4 CURRENT STATUS: Redact DATE OF I.AST REVIEW: 06/26/1998
OPENING CRITERIA : INDEFINITE
COMMENrS: INC MEMO
••
~1 9 NW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 1 ( ·.- ... ___...;. ,,.._') r0·36 ( Rev. 5-22- 64 )
FBI
Date: OCT 1 1964
Transmit the following in ------,=------,,.....,....----:--:------,1 ( Type in plaintext or code)
V i a ______AIRTEL_ REGISTtRED MAIL I . (Priority) ------~: ------
TO: -'Director, FBI (92-6054) ...... ~ ... : . .: ·.
1~ ' ~.,..,. •' . '@_/ ' i . "~"./ Enclosed for the Bureau and .··.1 ch office with "Commission '' . I tnan s cr.i.p1: I members is one copy of a :er:at:· ~ of a conversation OTHER 4 between ROCCO SCAFIDI . and ! _ -~ lfapodecina, Philadelphi~ Family, La Cosa Nostra, in w l.C defines the "Commission", identifies some -of the members , etc. The conversation mentions JOSEPH BONANNO but does not .Jtouch on BONANNO's problems with the Con~ission . .:. ~ c::>c.-: ~~~} - ' :-.··. "!.. • .. . - J "" ." < i't..:: .... , 1~cw~ m · ;~~ · _·, ,· c.3> - Burei~· · ( 92..:.:~054) (RM) (En.c. 1) • ~ 2 - New icf:i-k (9:~-2300 (RM) (Enc. 1) ' ·· -~ · V, 2 - Buffalo (92-377) CRMHEnc . 1) Cl 1 ,..,M· ~ O f>.., ..!.. ..;,.; 2- Pittsburgh . (92-S99X RM ) (Enc. 1) I~ 2 - Newark (92-1203) ( RM) (Enc. 1) ~---- ____ 3 - Philadelphia 2 92-102 7 t OC T 2 1964 1 - 137-~049 Sub B JRP : ARM - - (14) Per ______Sent------M NVl 4 5839 Doc i d: 32301 505 Page 2 ... --- ·•. c 0 UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT M E M 0 R A N D U M OCT 1 1964 .OTHER 4 · TO: SAC (137- 4049 Sub B) j I FRO.M: SA J. ROBERT .PEARCE I· SUBJECT: PH 702 - C* I i On 9/24/64 , t h e apove source furnished the results of a conversation between ! ~n d ROCCO ~CAFID I • . . ~ .. In the conversation SCAFIDI is identified as S andl as c. "-----...J ...... It is apparent that EXTREME CAUTI ON BE USED IN REPORTING THIS INFORMATION. IT SHOULD BE REPORTED IN LHM PARAPHRAstn, AND WITH THE NAME OF ROCCO s¢AFIDI _DELETED vd THOUT EXCEPTION. ~- Bureau (92-6054) 1 - New York (92- 2300) i ·- Buffalo (92-377) 1 - Pittsburgh (92- 599) 'I 1 - · Newark (9·2-l203 J 32 ~ - Philadelphia I 7 92-1027 (LA COSA NOSTRA) I 2 9?- 616 (JOSEPH BONANNO) ·l 1 s2- 444 (ANGELO BRUNO) · 1 - 92-1141 (JOHN CAPPELLO) 1 92-97& CfGNAZIO DENARO) . 2 92-524 (CARLO GAMBINO) '\ ·2 92-474 (JOSEPH IDA) l 2 92- 512 (THOMAS LUCHESE) j 2 92 - i346 (JOSEPH LANCIANA, aka JACK WILLIAMS) 2 - 92-1079 (PASQUALE MASSI) 1 - 92-1067 (FRANK MONTE) 1 - 92-106.8 (FRANK "CHICKIE" NARDU CCI) i 2 - 92- 564 "(JOSEPH PROFACI) I 1 92 - 445 (ANTONIO DOMINICK POLLINA) I 1 92 - 1316 (ROCCO SCAFIDI) 1 - 9.2-117 3 (SAM SCAFIDI; PHILADELPHIA) 1 92- 1073 (PHILIP TESTA) 2 1 37-4049 Sub B· JRP :ARM ,. (37) ' NW 45839 Docid :32301505 Page 3 ()- OTHER 4 · PH 137-40~9 Sub B Information en.closed in parenthesis is explanation of the meaning of \he conversation as explained by source to fully identify persons mentioned and to indicate portions tha·t are not audible or garbled. On 9/24/64 C: What? • S. . About 1: 30 we were over there, nothing happened ·C: Did you go see ANGE? s: .r went to see him last night, and I told him. C: t.-7here did he _go? S: I don't know. And I told him. So, for next week, he better go see him and strai~h~ en out. - C: Yeah . btit a a a 0 (Good m~rning' I Istranger speaks to '-1____ _, s: Yeah. W~ were there until 1~30 and the guy didn't show up. I ain't got no luck. (As-ide to unidentified person, SCAFIDI ·says, "How you doing, buddy?" Customers ame and qf during ~he conver~ation . · Conversatio~ in f~-~~-:---:---'- store, NJ.nth and Fl. tzwater Streets, PhJ.la delphia). (' ...... What do you want, a quart or a gallon? talking to customer in his store) . '------'1 S: ~?.~'t worry,~'------~ I'd have been here. You- kn6w that. · C: I was worried. I swear to God . I even called :him yesterday. I mean. State~~ w-I don w t know. · But . what I don't know don't hurt me. S: Relax. You know I would h~ve been hereand wet your palm, buddy. I'm not. that way. (SCAFIDI and .FRANK MONTE attempted to hold up a "Jewish Guy" on night of 9/21-22/64. They remained until 1 ~ 30a . m . , - ~/22/64 _waiting for t .l}e man to show. The intended victim· cashes c~ecks i and . carried la~ge sums of money on his '. - . 2 INW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 4 ·-·-··- ·------0 0 OTHER 4 PH 137-4049 Sub B person. He didn't show at his usual place. ~ I had been told by SCAFIDI if. he had made goode would have q i :ven I lsome of the money . ) Regardless, I I you know I'm not _that hungary because ..... C: No, I wasn't thinking of that. S: I went to see GNATZ (IGNAZIO DENARO, under boss La Cosa Nostra, Philadelphia, ANGELO BRUNO, Boss, La Cosa Nostra CLCN), Philadelphia, arid Commi ssion ...... ~ember~departed for Miami night of 9/23/64, so IGNATZ is in charge urttil BRUNO return's) yesterday. I s·aid, ., ·.· did FRANK come and see you? He said not yet. He'll ' be over. It would have been nice . I would have paid •.. TONY off. l· . ., C: But you see , he should have went and seen him, being I. .';'. that you went down . That's why . I told you. Did you get in touch with .him (MONTE ) any time? (FRANK MONTE I. shoulq have reported his attempted holdup · activity .I to DENARO like SCAFIDI did) . . s: No , I couldn't see him. :: ·. C: Maybe, because •• • • was with yorr, you know, he'd figure, what the (obscene) i s he doing with you •••• S: Well , I got him protected tooG ~= Huh? s :·. I got him protected too. I wanted GNATZ t o think that ~~ ~""""' . "·,""'-·...... he didn' t do ito I want to wait until he talks to you. See. I'm waiting to see him. See why the guy· didn't show up. It's funny the guy didn't show up. C: Oh, he wasn't with you, FRANK? ' .; ':. ~- S: Yeah, we both. "ffp was on the corner. I was on the side. The guy didn't show up. There is somethi ng funny there. He's t here every Tuesday. All the people were waiting for him at the luncheonette to cash some checks. No . luck. (Customer intervenes here aboui steaks). I t would all have been all right ,I I. o o I went to s.ee my prother ( SAM SCAFIDI, also member LCN) yesterday, and thought I was; going to •••· .. ,. 1 ·'· . ., .. , •• .. - 3 - ·------·-· ...... ------' '· NW 4 5839 Docld:323 01505 Page 5 . . ... PBDBRAL BORBAO OF DVBS"l'IGA'l'IOII POSTPOli'EIIEIIT DIPORIIA'l'IOII SilUi' (JPK KATBIU.ALS) ~Page {s) .withheld entirely at this location in the file. One or more of the following statements, where indicated, .explain this deletion {these deletions). [] Deletions were made pursuant to the postponement rationale indicated below with no segregable material available for disclosure. All references relate to · . .•...... • • . . . . : ~ ..-.. ~ =·· "-1 ... - • • • • ..... ;,- ·~ .. •...... Sect~on 6 of ~he .. "Pres1dent -John :·F •. : Kennedy ·: Assass:tn~t~·on · - R~cotds C6llebtio~ A~t of 1992." · · (] Subsection lA {intelligence agent's identity) [] Subsection lB (intelligence source or method) [] Subsection lC {other matter relating to military defense, intelligence operations or the conduct of foreign relations) Subs ection 2 ( 1 i vi ng_ p.er.son--who- · pFsv-idecL confidential i nformation) (] Subsection 3 (unwarranted invas i~n o~ privacy) Subsecti or. 4 (cooperating individual or foreign If government, currently requiring protection) [) Subsecti on 5 (security or protective procedure, currently or expected to be utilized) [] Information pertained to a matter unrelated t o the JFK Assassination invest igation. [] For your information: ______ [] The following number is to be used f or reference regarding this page ·(these pages): Cf . Z-IPO~ -ej· if -0 s;«-t. - 7 7 J xxxxxxxxxx XII ,-1YXXXX xxxxxxxxxx ' xxxxxxxxxx .. xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx Page 6 NW 45839 Docid:32301 505 0 0 PH 137-4049 Sub B C: Look, I mean, that·' s t-1ho I was going to go see o I said that, you knowo S: But it didn't work out. Didn't pan out. C ... But, ah, beinga that I, ah. I called him and he said he~' 11 (tell me?) the next time I cali himo Not that .I - want .him to thin~ that I know, becaus~ the. less I . know the better off I am . You understand what I mean? I'm not concerned or anything-~- ~=-~~ a case . :'··. of washing ~Y hands. It just happened that you told ··':~ .. me, and it was an (honest ? garbled here) . s: ANG (ANGELO BRUNO) . He'll be out of town anyway ••• You have to go see him nowo ••• see GNATZ o C: Who? s: What do' you have to go see GNATZ f9r : See ANG, it's bett e r, ain't it? C: I don' t know. I don't want to be involved. GNATZ !· told yoti to go see him (MONTE) o (DENARO t old SCAFIDI to ha ve MONTE come see DENARO). S: Yeah , well , if I catch him, I'll take him up there with . me. C: It won't hurt anyway. GNATZ will want to see him. Right is right. See the boss through channels. We're lucky we got -- boss like this. When the other guy was boss. You seen hir, once in three years~ s : I seen him yesterday. C: Who was that, JOE IDA? I I . s: Of, I mean MIG (ANTONIO POLLINA). I saw him .yesterday. (ANGELO BRUNO replaced POLLINA as "boss" in LC.N - JOE IDA was "boss" prior to POLLINA) ., . C . Yeah. I mean JOE IDAo You us~d to see him once every three years. See, here he had to go----he!'e, there·. He'd say he's busy now. And then you'd .never see him. ... .j ' NW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 7 ·- .. ····-···------,.-- r OTHER 4 PH 137-4049 Sub B .·,...... , I. \\).. I S: Oh, this guy (AN 3ELO BRUNO) runs around . I He C: is always around, but if he was in Trenton , when Ii. the (obscene) would you se~ him too? S: You can't be~thim. You can'i beat him. I even· to~d my broth~r, you ask him. He said, if I get it, you'll get it~ I said, I ain't hungry. As long as I get enough for myself and pay my Dills and a few left over, I said, C: Oh, I -wouldn ' t look at it th2.t \-Jay I .. . . S: No, but J I you know m e ~ r~m n ot mrn1ey hun gry . , ::·--·:· . You helped me out . l don ' t forget. , · ...... 1 C: , I was worried. I just was worried. I· . 1t ·.·. s: Yeah, I don't blame you. t· C: You know, I know youse were s u pposed to. I read the f paper the next day. I didn't see anything. S: If only they (wouldn't have?) called the police. C: Although you had told me that, see. So, I called him. / S: ...-.uA.~;;.g... e .... n~..~. t..,.s._?...... , ( Car passed ., S CAFI DI aske d if it was ·Agents • L...-----.....1 says sure), C: Sure . S: ·want to g o up there and ~ee him this week? : j ' C: This week is Thursday already. I shouldn ' t go on a weekend. It should be like on a Monday or Wednesday. S: Oh . We will make it defi nitely Monday or something. L et ' s get mov1n. g on t h.1s . C: All right. S: Make it Tuesday. I'il call him and tell him we're coming Tuesday night. . • ~ · · ; - 5 - NW 45839 Docid:3230150 5 Page 8 0 0 PH 137-4049 Sub B I I All right. (SCAFIDI works Philadelphia, New Jersey . I I Expressway, Philadelphia, as truck driver. The I • owner ·TONY CAPOLLA is close to~ ~ JOHN OTHER 4 · is interested and so is SCAFID 1n go1ng ahead with I previously talked of effort to steal a load of freight. -:::::.-' 1·:- s: Thls way, let's get moving on it. C: (?) Put this head and shoulders away at it. (Int~rruption) .~·f · ·· .: ~ -: .. .. S: . Now, let's say something happens, would they give him ·: · · hell. or. what? \tJhat Jrould' they do? You 9 d be· in hot .water? (If MONTE got· caught on the attempted holdup, . i:. :.. . what would LCN do· about it?) ~i • • 1- . C: You're (a member of LCN) not supposed ~o do anything ! ·: ~ unless you get permission first. s: That I know. C: Because this thing (LCN) is worse than the (obscene.) army, you know that. S: That I know. C: If you get away with it and nobody knows, it' s good. S: Yeah, but. C: Ev'en. .... sneaks ••••• sel f . S: I've done it. I've done it. (SCAFIDI has done things "sneak", without permission of ·LCN). ----- sneak---- C: But if you get caught you louse yourself up. S: :-Who's... them two guys? C: HARRY, put this and shoulders away. S: Know them? C: ... - 6 - ' NW 4 5839 Docld:32301505 Page 9 0 PH 137~4049 Sub B C: You louse yourself up. And then, not only that, then they say (obscene) well, he didn't tell nobody if he was going to make a score, wind up with money •• he wasn't going to bring it up to me, who the (obscene) (are you?) help yourself now. Know what I mean? S: Yeah. • C. . As if. , ·. . • . 't,";:: ..: · : S: (Unintelligible) ,/ . I :. C: That's the difference. r, S: In ' other words, when he gives you the OK •••• generally a job rule, I guess the g~y is in with t hem, you know wh~t I mean? A little som~thing for his trouble, you know, he helps them out, I mean me, I ain't with I ... ~im • . · He ain't with me. So, I ·don't know h~ ' s with. I .(FRANK MONTE "ain't" in some regime in LCN with CAPPELLO. !' . He .is under TESTA.) · · - C: He's wit!l PHI·L (PHILIP TESTA) . S; PHIL. PHIL is away, so he .-has to go there. (Go to see AN GE : ~s TESTA is in j ail). ·I don't know. s :· ANGE. C: I don't know. · Has he apnointed ari~body for that reason? i I · don't·. know. I lJoesn' t know i f a n yone is OTHER 4 ·· appo~nted ~ o act as Capodecjna for TESTA while TESTA ' . isin jailY. . s : I don't either. · C: He'll need one of his capi's . C: That's it • . I don't ·know if he's appoi nted someone i n c6arge of it.· He's got to go ~o ANGE. · That I don't know . S : I imagine he has to go to ANGE. - 7 '· ..... NW 4 5839 Docid:32301505 Page 1.0 0 OTHER 4 S: Who ·: else would: take it over? C: · . •. $ome.,-l'ie lfOuld take .1 t <>'fl'r tejnporS::t:;t.l;Y • r ;•; 1f I .. went -away:,· I'd leave a· -guy. ·1p ~harge •' :_ _ __ as·''" a:; capq. .:w:ou;Ld . · ~PPQint s6~e-on·e in . charge . o · is group if ·l:le.. went away~) . . " . . Oh ye_ah~ .. , •.1 1 . _Het;e s ·. PATSY . ( PA~QUAL . MA&:SI# aka Pat. ~. _Pa.t.f3Y) ~ :· . H~/~ .. got JA,CK WIL~I.AM · (.JOSEP~ LA_Ne.:I~NO) -· in ; C~rge ~ ·. · ' . . .0~# -· JAPK ·wrLLIAMS .. tak~s ·: PAT~'a ·· place~ G$~bl~d • . i . How is: he? I heard he_· had a heart ·atta·ck. · l . ~ who: P.AT? He .···s· a11, - ~1Sht~ . I . ·think . hc:t ~ s ·.- over. ·it· ·no_~ " . , . only he .. (WILLIAMS).. ~.. ~ .· taking :his. ··eight. ..away ·from. · P.im.. ! N(?.i : j~st _ act_ing (.capo) . the~ . Until ·he .comes b~iek ·~ · Right? That-• a· all. right • . In other · · ~ords. hi:{•·s · (.TES'l'A )_ in -the can~ · These .:·kids ~aVe t. ~ · g(? ·t~. sonie.Q:-?dy? _.. · ·~ -. All right. 'This gey; I g\iess:, he .dori•.t .' give. a · (.oQS.c.en~)'. , lf .' they : · c_ o~e ~O : him: ·• . .()h we _;Lt~ · t~ere : re~l!Y ~- s 6~ly · two~ him {MOm':~f} _ ; ~pd _ ClUC~IE .. _ (~~ . ''Ch1.clt.1_e'' .MA~VCCI J. . Tpe_ othe_~ SUfS ar~ . a.l~, ~ ol~ · . _men . like I got~ - What the ( obs·cene r.-.t _r()uble they giv~ ·you. ·.. _ · · · · · :B.: · What dQ~: _·yoU: · have,_ old. men top? c.: · ~re~ty ' old ~:. • ·••• · · S: -_That (~ goo~:, -. J _OIW, ' I 1m g~~d. ~ - . ' - 8 ·------··-·------· ------:-..._- - - - NW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 11 0. !I OTHER 4 - PH 137~4049 Sub B. C: Was your old man alive whEm you? S: Yeah ••• I: . The source elaborated on the above. ... PHILIP TESTA is in jail. It was not known if he appointed anyone to · act as capodecina in his plac.e while ... · . TSSTA ·- is in jail. · CAPPELO is a capodecit.a but has only "•t ...~ .. ": old men under him who ·give him no trouble. Other than .. . , FR,ANK ·MONTE ar1d ~NK NARDUqCI . (made members of LCN ·10/19/61 .. ·: · according .to ·PH 623-C-*) , . 1$STA has old men under him.- ,;.. In LCN when a capodecema is "awayll he should have somone .. •: . to take over ·"terilpora:ry" while tne capodecema is gone. I's . . PAT MASS,I, . who is. in Italy has JACK WILLIAM, true name~ , I·. : JOSEPH LANC.IANO acting as capo. JACK WILLIAMS is not·p~tly I taking over for MASSI" • . MASSI has 11 eight" in his regime. I · Thi·s would not mean there in· other . regi_mes. i" 1:: :::l[ ::::;I I This .identifies PAT MASSI, ______-~---~ PHlLIP TEST·A : as capodecema in the Phila p ! of.. . LCN. Later ' ANGELA BRUNO is· identified as the· "boss ' and a member · · of tT:: c0Jjun1es1on · ff LCN " h I father ,was "alive" when_ _was "ma e LCN. 'S: Capodecema C: I 1 11 tell .you the trut_h, I wish I wasn't. S: Why? C: . Ah. S: ·Ain't that much headaches, is it? c:· I a i n't got that much, but, ah., the headaches. S: So, your responsible for them guys. .. ~·s C: Pain in the (obscene). : A wake comes and you got to get in touch with _all of them, and bri ng--! got all old men. I .got to pick them up. · If I - 9 - NW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 12 ·-- . - ·c· --- ~-.. - C--) FEDERAL BUREAU OP lliVBS'TIGA'l'IOH POSTPOIIBIIBIIT DIPORIIA'l'IOII SRBB'l' (Jf'K IIATERIALS) ~,~_::?~___ Page(s) withheld entirely at this location in the file. One or more of the following statements, where indicated, explain this deletion (these deletions) .. (] Deletions were made pursuant to the postponement rationale indicated below with no segregable material available for disclosure. All references relate to .: • Section 6 of the "President John .F. Ken~edy · , Assas~ination . Records Collection Act ~ of 1992." [] Subsection lA- ·-(-intelligence agent's identity) [) Subsection lB (intelligence source or method) [] Subsection lC (other matter relating to military defense, intelligence operations or thP. conduct of foreign relations) Subsection 2 (living person who provide~ confidential information) [] Subsection 3 (unwarranted invasion of privacy) I( Subsection 4 (cooperating individual or foreign government, currently requiring protection) (] Subsect i on 5 (s ecurity or protective procedure, currently or expected to be utilized) [] Information pertained to a matter unrelated to the JFK Assassination investigation. (] For your information=----~------ [] Th; following number is to be used for reference regarding this page (these pages): '1;.- ~t:JS'I- 771 0232 10-12- :·· xx:xxxxxxxx ; XJCXXXXXXXX xxxxxxxxxx xuu1u:xxxx I .• xxxxxxxxxx· xxxxxxxxxx I •• I . l ' ' NW 4 5839 Docld:32301505 Page 13 ---- -··-· ·· ·------~~~=~~------~------ OTHER 4 PH 137-4049 Sub B . was by .myself, I'd go by myself. I .run- once a week. I .'d go see my capi. and then .. I'm done.- ·. I . never gave them a headache. since. I've· been in this thing. S: No.,. that's true. Still you have .a chance, ! for some.thing...... L------1 Garbled •••• Capodecina .(like . before?) C: I wouldn•t ••• what he's got. · ·I wouldn't. No, I -don•t think I would. ·It's too much responsibility. · ·. C: ' · -I . would never want it. You don 1 t kno;.y the (obscene) tr.ouble ·that is ~round now. W~ hac;l a meet the other I · night. Man, I .tell you, some of.. .the stories that I • you hear, phew~ It makes your hair stand up • . Makes .your hair really stand up. I wouldn't want it. I .tell you the (obscene) truth~ If they would say . to me, here, you can be .. under (boss) (Italian). :_ I . . say . I wouldn't take it? · S: ~ .••• take it? C: No, siree, I would .neve; never. S: I 1 lllay you any mo:ney (Iknow who would?}. .take it after ANG. PHIL • . I'll bet on it. (SCAF-IDI says he thinks TESTA . would take over if BRUNO .. ·was re- · placed. for some reason.) . C: W~ll, maybe they· like them responsibilit~es. I don•t. S:. I know, I wouldn't either. I .mean, if I_, was .up in good standing and all that. C: N~, . them things is all right. -lo..-;;; · NW 4 5839 Docid:32301505 Page 1.4 -- ·····- .. -·-·------·-··:....o!..W .. :..w.r_.....,..,~~------ . :' ...... 0 PH 137-4049 Sub B · S: It's headaches, .JOHN, you ~ot to have money. C: It • s all right, if you got money. You:•·re not doing anything. You got time to run here and there. ,; Yo1t··take like me.. With me, that•s why with me it . seems so ••• I 1m in the store. A guy comes.. I got to .go somewheres else .. It 1 s a pain in the_ (obscene) • . It's a real. pain in the (obscene). If I wasn•t · ~ 1 doing nothing, then it s . a pleasure. I got to do...... Understand? I don't say I'm sorry I 1m the one, . but then, L mean to say, it's good enough fo:r. me . I wouldn't want to be under (boss); maybe C'onsiigl·ieri because you are not too involved with something • . . S: ' What would that mean; in case of trouble? .. I·' C: A con~, uglieri is like a lawyer. In case you got ~ I a beei' or a gripe. or-· I got a beef with you~ He t· hears the story, and he tries t o straighten it I out. Understand? - He•s like a lawyer. In· other words, .he • s like a peacemaker. · S: Yeah, wait awhile. I got a.~ .. VALACHI .... like you _ know when everybody gets together, all the big . bossesi?·. C: . . Udienza. (:i:n English a hear_ing)>r meeting) . - S: Udienza?. Well, there is another name. .He (VALACHI) called· i -t ~omething else ••• . la commissione ...... C: · Commission is nine -bosses. · ; - II .S: Nine bosses? From different states? II C: From different states, from different families, the bosses of nine .different families. . Now, if there is a beef in the family.: like· New York or Brooklyn PROFACI • .S: Yeah. i I ~ · i I I I ..-11-- · ------\.::------.J NW 45839 Docid:32301505 Page 15 ------~0-~~~~~~-o-.~~~~ ~~ - ·pH 137-4049 Sub B 1 C: New .York or what. (Auto drowns out) The Commission gets ~ogether and tries to straighten it out; other wise, who the (obscene) kill them all .each other. . So they get together. and try to straighten it out. I . You. know# somebody intervenes, and then the commission ~e:&s together. 1 St . I didn t .understand what the hell it was. . .. . -~· ..: . ·: .The commission makes the decision. : ~ ·. . ·::. : Oh, in other words they pick nine guys from different states. C: They've been on the commission for years and years. ' Like our family, our boss (ANGELO· BRUNO) is a · .. representative on there •. ' S: He's one of them? .l· I C: . He 1 ~ one • . There's CARLO CABINO, there's TOMMY BROWN, TOMMY .LUCHESE (Thomas Luchese, aka). Eight or ni~e . of them. .S: I alw~ys wondered what the hell it was. I mean, I never • . C: JOE BANANAS is a new . one •* What • s what. There's about eignt or nine • . The¥ get together • ..The . commission gets together and they decide what is ·, to be done, and that's all. j S: What's... to be done. :1 ; .·.· •• < ., C: in~ other wor.ds, .:say for instance, ANGE, some of us (JOHN says hello to somebody here) and there. is . friction, there is· fights, some guys disappear. ·I .The commission hears about it, you know •• ·.they give I you a hearing and try to iron the ·thing out some- where else. Take a vote • . S: Oh. End of Conversation. (*Another na~e ; mentioned b~t . not audible.) l.;· •• '" ... ·:~.:.~4J{:2__:....-_,____;:...-;...·- ·· .~:---=- · ~- ''--'· ~---"---______;,______~-- -~ NW 45839 Docld: 32301505 Pag e 16