Getting Back Up Again: A critical-interpretive exploration of African American
women C-suite executives coping with microaggressions in the workplace
A thesis submitted to the
Graduate School
of the University of Cincinnati
in partial fulfillment of the
requirements for the degree of
Master of Arts
in the Department of Communication
of the College of Arts and Sciences
by
Rockia Harris
B.A. University of Kentucky
May 2017
Committee Chair: Ronald Jackson II, Ph.D.
i Abstract
This study explores the coping mechanisms developed by African American women who hold or have held C-suite executive positions when facing microaggressions in the workplace. In an attempt to understand the barriers these women encounter based upon their racial and gender identitiy, I utilize the Microaggression and Resiliency Theory as the conceptual framework. The significance of this study narrows in on a demographic of women who lack in numbers, translating to a lack of voices and experiences being shared when faced with discrimination and how they are able to ‘get back up’ once they are knocked down. Using this critical interpretative approach, the findings show that African
American women C-suite executives are experiencing microaggressions, specifically indirect manifestations verbally and nonverbally. The findings also provide insight on how other women in these powerful positions can develop the needed skills and habits, to be able to push through with their resiliency.
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Acknowledgements
“I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept”.
-Angela Davis
Teddy, Aunt Monty, Inez & Uncle Sean this is for you…
I would like to first say thank you to all of those who ever encouraged me through a phone call/text, social media, prayer and so on during this process, as these last 2 years have been the most stressful time period of my life. This chapter of living in Cincinnati allowed me to experience new things like living on my own, to facing demons I’ve long ignored, such as my mental health. Through discovery of my dyslexia and grasping this new concept of Communication, I’ve grown into a better woman and better yet, an improved scholar. To my motivation, my mom and brother, thank you for believing in me even when I couldn’t find the willpower to believe in myself. To my aunts and cousins, you always cheered me on no matter what and seeing the smile on your face, makes me feel even more complete. To my sister and best friend, Sydne’, thank you for always helping me be better when it comes to my faith and loving me for 10 years….my truest friend. To my Flossy
Posse, Travel Crew and Amigos, I love you so much. Thank you for listening to my vents and always helping when I’m being indecisive. To 25DS, my prophytes, neophytes, distant sands, & Sorors in general that I have met on this journey, you’ve shown me what this sisterhood can truly do in a time of need. AOML. Lastly, to Dr. Jackson, Ashley, Dominique,
Staci, and my BGPSA family, thank you for protecting my Blackness and Womanhood at all cost. Academia doesn’t understand our struggles unless it’s written as a publication but living the experience is so different. Thank you for reiterating that I am needed in this space. Thank you all for being my needed support system.
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Table of Contents
Abstract ii
Acknowledgements iv
Table of Contents v
Chapter 1 (Introduction) 1
Chapter 2 (Literature Review) 11
Discrimination Against African Americans & Women 11
Racial & Gendered Microaggressions 16
Workplace Discrimination 19
Racial Battle Fatigue in the Workplace 22
Chapter 3 (Methods) 31
Chapter 4 (Data Analysis) 42
Category One: Microinsults 43
Category Two: Microinvalidations 58
Category Three: Resilience 64
Chapter 5 (Conclusion) 74
References 94
Appendix A (IRB Protocol) 106
Appendix B (Participants Recruitment Email) 116
Appendix C (Semi Structured Interview Schedule) 117
Appendix D (Adult Consent Form) 118
Appendix E (Transcribed Interviews) 119
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CHAPTER 1 – Introduction
Discrimination is pervasive, and the workplace is no exception. In 2017, 84,253 cases were filed with federal agency nationwide (EEOC, 2018) on charges of workplace discrimination, including harassment. These negative interactions are not only costly financially, but they also lead to significant deterioration in the climate, vision, and cohesiveness of the organization (Elizabeth-Hirsh, 2009). Often times discrimination begins with microaggressions, or small slights, that when left unchecked expand into more severe acts of maladaptive behavior.
Microaggressions are the brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, and environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial, gender, sexual-orientation, and religious slights and insults to the target person or group (Sue, 2010). They leave institutions with climate issues that must be managed, usually through diversity, equity, and inclusion strategies and initiatives; yet what is not always understood and may get overlooked is how the individual who is being aggressed processes these attacks (Sue et al., 2009). Currently, there are several cases in media showcasing women speaking out about their experiences in the workplaces.
Earlier in 2018, two African American women filed racial discriminations against Fox News because of the company’s comptroller who allegedly made, “numerous racially charged comments, including suggestions that Black men were women beaters and Black people wanted to physically harm White people” (Chokshi, 2017).
Despite the attempt of keeping equity and inclusion in the forefront of these company facades, microaggressions persist across industries within the United States. The present study is principally concerned with microaggressions targeting a specific group –
1 African American women in executive positions. African American employees filed 25,482 cases of racial discrimination and 19,605 have been filed by women in the workforce
(EEOC, 2014). African American women are faced with racial and gendered microaggressions, intersected by two or more identities. Turner & Myers (2000) explain that African American women’s intersectional identities compound the impact that race and gender discrimination might have singularly.
According to the American Association of University Women, African American women with the same educational credentials as others can expect to be met with less pay and less opportunity.
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This persisting reality of wage discrimination also leads to occupational disparities for
African American women who often find themselves in lower rung positions exists alongside the devastating injustice of daily racial and gender microaggressions in the workplace.
Scholars have built upon others research to discover the effects microaggressions can have on all people (Donovan et. al, 2012; Nadal et al., 2014; Hughey, 2017; Sue, 2010) and it is important to reiterate that the consistency of being attacked because of something one cannot control (i.e. race or gender) is likely to trigger mental, physical, and emotional stressors. Any one microaggression alone may be minimally impactful, but when they occur continuously throughout a lifespan, their cumulative nature can have major detrimental consequences (Holmes & Holmes, 1970; Holmes & Rahe, 1967; Meyer, 1995, 2003; Utsey,
Giesbrecht, Hook & Standard, 2008; Utsey & Ponterotto, 1999). This study will explore the impact microaggressions have on African American women executives, with the specific focus on the unconscious manifestations (microinsults and microinvalidations) they experience in the workplace.
Why African American Women in Executive Positions?
Being a woman in a male dominant field is a challenge but adding race to the mix creates an even wider gap in success. The Center for American Progress (Warner & Corley,
2017) stated that Women of color represent only 3.9 percent of executive- or senior-level officials and managers and 0.4 percent of CEOs in those companies in 2015. These numbers alone show the lack of representation within the workforce, translating to the lack of voices that can be heard when expressing women of color’s experiences. Society presents us with women like Ursula Burns who, in 2009 as CEO of Xerox, became the first African American
3 woman to lead a fortune 500 company for the first time in history. Additionally, over four hundred African American women are running for federal, state, and local office positions this year, including Representative Maxine Waters or Georgia Gubernatorial candidate
Stacey Abrams. These are the few trailblazers we are exposed to who are breaking barriers, but still faced different disparities and unequal treatment in the workplace.
Men invoke stereotypes that allocate women as unsuitable for desired jobs and are threaten by the competition of limited position (Falkenburg, 1990). After creating tension, it can manifest into possible abuse of power, discrimination, harassment and even being hostile in this typical male dominant environment. The dynamic of office politics is shifted once women or people of color are in the ‘power seat’. Catalyst (2013, p. 14) is a nonprofit that helps organizations remove barriers in the workplace and argues that many African
American women report that their authority is often questioned and challenges with those they interact with both in and out of the workplace. Lack of respect goes into undermining an individual’s authority and role, and often these women are distrusted, or their credibility is otherwise harmed. Assumptions of someone’s experience, questioning if they are “fit” for the position, are ways to exclude someone within their own place of being. The result of this is guardedness within relationships, establishing boundaries with specific people like disclosure of personal life in the workplace (Catalyst, 2013, p. 16). Nevertheless, diversity and an inclusive communicative style, is needed in order to create a ‘safe space’ for different identities.
African American women in the workplace are intersected by their race and gender which can lead to confusion. Parker (2002, p. 252) explains that the dominant culture of organizations expects their leaders “to look, act, and think in ways consistent with the
4 socially constructed meanings of ‘organizational leader’ and ‘leadership’”. When these women are placed in these executive positions, an internal conflict with stereotypical assumption is made (Parker, 2001). In order to negotiate, there must be self-awareness; one must understand their standpoint with the specific space. “One's ability to define self
(i.e. identity) predetermines conduct; consequently, who one thinks he or she is relates to what one thinks one should be doing" (Jackson, 1999, p. 60). With this definition and knowledge of self-identity, systems are created through interactions and agency is established. Essentially, any shift that happens to one or more of an individual’s cultural identities, the cultural contract is “signed”, meaning individuals either abide by the agreement or create a new one (Jackson, 1999). This contract guides individuals to better understand what is actually being negotiated in these spaces, and even how African
American women transform their own appearance to the satisfaction of others because of society’s misconception of acceptable and appropriate beauty in the workforce.
Over time, the revolution of African American women’s physical appearance (hair, skin, body type) has been a popular subject for the workplace, but the comprehension of the significance is rarely fully examined. Thompson (2009) highlights a specific case,
Rogers v. American Airlines, that prohibited an employee from wearing a particular hairstyle, discriminating against her being a woman of color culturally and biologically. As time progresses, society becomes more culturally aware of beauty standards and trends, but there is still a difference in being accepting. From unfamiliarity of hair culture to colorism, we see scholars have even found that body typing of Black women is at an all- time high because of the stigmas and media exposure (Evans & McConnell, 2003), emphasizing why representation matters and why the Black experience is extremely
5 important. The culture of being African American and a woman, having to decipher between what is considered “professional” and what is “appealing to the white viewer” continues to result in different stages of criticism. This criticism shows how unvalued these executes are.
African American women are known to be overworked and underpaid as well. The
Urban Agenda newspaper includes an article titled ‘Most Educated, Least Paid—Black
Women Demand Equal Pay’ written by Jennifer Austin Esq., (2018) gives further details of racial pay disparities and even better information of the outreach and career tracks needed for success in corporate leadership. Austin is CEO and Executive Director of Federation of
Protestant Welfare Agencies (FPWA) and her perspective provided for the news article fell into the relevance of Black Women’s Pay Equity Day. She stated that Black women earn
67.7 cents to the dollar of White men, compared to the 81.9 cents of White women, to the
93 cents Asian women receive, and 62.1 cents Hispanic women collect as their earnings
(Austin, 2018).
The struggles of being an African American woman in the workplace point to the following experiences:1) questioning one’s own authority and power because of unwarranted critiques of leadership capability; (2) feeling the need to negotiate identity because of marked differences; (3) being attacked because of physicality, skin complexions, or hair; and last but not least (4) being stuck with the crisis of doing the same work for less pay based upon race and gender rather than credentials. Through all these hurdles in life,
African American women are still documented for their success in different workplaces, emphasizing why there is a need to study the impact of microaggressions. Entirely, these offenses can be deterring to the mind body and soul and is an attack of the character of
6 these women. However, we must acknowledge that there are women who develop a strong exterior, but what is not always clear is the impact persistent microaggressions have on
African American women and their overall experience of being an African American woman in America. Rather than further entrench the weight of the attacks they endure and render their voices invisible this study offers space for them to articulate their experience and inspire others by discussing strategies for how they have overcome.
Preview of Theoretical Framework
Within this study, you’ll find a microaggression theory approach, to better understand the dismissal of witnessed accounts and the invisible nature of language phenomenon. Microinsults are subtle snubs, that frequently are unknown to the perpetrator, but they clearly contain a hidden message insulting towards a person of color
(Sue, 2010). These behavioral or verbal remarks are placed into the following categories:
Ascription of Intelligence- the intellect, competence and capabilities of an individual, such as “I didn’t know people of color were that smart.”; Second Class Citizen- a subliminal message about certain groups being less worthy less important, or less deserving from the
‘power group’, such as “There’s no way a woman runs this company. They’re too emotional.”; Pathologizing cultural Values/Communication Styles- the belief that White, male, straight groups are the normative and people of color and/or LGBTQ community is abnormal, such as “Why do African American women have to be so loud and sensitive?”, and Assumption of Criminal Status- race specific and relates to believing a person of color is dangerous or a criminal, such as a White coworker avoiding disagreeing with a person of color because they are scared of confrontation.
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Microinvalidations exclude or negate the psychological thoughts, feelings and experience of a person of color and placed into the following categories: Alien in Own Land- being perceived as a foreigner in one’s own country, such as “You speak English very well.”;
Color Blindness- the unwillingness to acknowledge color, gender or sexual orientation, such as “When I see you, don’t see color.”; Myth of Meritocracy- asserts that race, gender, and sexual orientation do not play a role in life success, such as “We all have an equal opportunity in the workplace.”; Denial of Individual Racism- an individual’s denial of personal racism, sexism, or heterosexism, such as “I’m not racist, I have a black friend”
(Sue, 2010).
Additionally, you’ll find a resilience theory approach that is often recognizable in organizational communication, focusing on the specific ability to survive and defeat adversity, throughout uncomfortable situations. It is said to be essential for effective leaders (Ledesma, 2014) and is associated with the idea of recovery and thriving despite
“repeated exposure to stressful experiences” (O’Leary, 1998). When being resilient, the outcome of success includes strong coping skills. This protective psychological factor leads to the usage of the compensatory model by some scholars (Werner and Smith’s, 2001;
Kumpfer and Hopkins, 1993; Ungar, 2004), which sees resilience as a factor that neutralizes exposures to risk. “It does not interact with a risk factor; rather, it has a direct and independent influence on the outcome of interest (O’Leary, 1998, p.427)”. Werner &
Smith’s (2001) found four central characteristics that emerged from using O’Leary’s (1998) compensatory model: “an active approach toward problem-solving, a tendency to perceive experiences in a positive light even when they were suffering, the ability to gain other people’s positive attention, and a strong reliance on faith to maintain a positive life view”
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(Ledesma, 2014, p.2). This study will be able to continue the placement of comments into the Microaggression categories and Resilient characteristics, while also identifying what new sections that can be created from current rhetoric used in workplace conversations.
The improvement and management of direct dialogue can long term affect personal and professional interaction.
Outline of Methods
For this critical-interpretive study of African American women C-suite executives
(i.e. CEO, CFO, COO, etc.) coping experiences in the workplace, self-report data will be collected via individual interviews. Those recruited will be part of a convenient sample of
African American woman who not only live in the Greater Cincinnati area, but are also members of The Links, Incorporated. Links is an international, not-for-profit corporation for extraordinary women who are committed to enriching, sustaining and ensuring the culture and economic survival of African Americans. They are also invited to recommend
African American women who are not members of the organization but are executives willing to share their experiences of microaggressions in the workplace. Using a snowball sampling approach will yield a target sample population of 10 participants recruited through an email sent out by the chapter’s recording secretary.
Each one-on-one interview will be scheduled for 30-45 minutes. The researcher will use a semi-structured interview schedule that reflects the central research questions of this study. The goal will be to solicit the personal narratives that indicate experiences of workplace microaggressions, strategies for addressing them, and the impact of these microaggressions. Once responses are recorded, I plan to analyze the emergent themes
9 using the constant comparison technique taking note of the women’s perceptions, and how microinsults and microinvalidations have affected them. I will deploy member checking as a means of confirming interpretations of participant responses.
Research Questions
The following research questions, with the guidance of literature and methods, were pursued in this research project:
1) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinsults within the workplace?
2) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinvalidations within the workplace?
3) How does the women’s resilience affect their coping with microaggressions?
Outline of Chapters
This thesis will consist of five chapters. In Chapter 2, I will further elaborate the literature addressing discrimination against African Americans and women, race and gender microaggressions, discrimination in the workplace, and racial battle fatigue in the workplace. With the help of this literature, I will further develop the concepts being addressed. In Chapter 3, I will discuss the methods for this study along with my own researcher bias. In Chapter 4 I will discuss the findings by revealing the emergent themes and interpreting them using extant literature. Lastly, in chapter 5 I will conclude with an overview of the study, along with discussion of the study’s limitations, practical implications, and suggestions for future research.
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CHAPTER 2 – Literature Review
This study is about African American women’s experiences with microaggressions in the workplace, investigating the coping mechanisms created. The significance lies within the existing literature of trauma stemmed from discrimination and oppression, determining that these women who obtain power in a White-male dominant society, are not being cared for mentally, physically or emotionally and often excluded from sharing their experience to the C-suite. These women are balancing societal issues and a history of racism and sexism, while implementing authority and structure. Their stability should matter more.
Discrimination against African Americans and Women
Racism & Privilege
Like all studies that focus on race, Black skin is the marker of difference that is symbolically the global target of racism and women are considered marginalized, less worthy. This section will provide a preview of the politics of slavery, setting the standard of privilege in society and in the Black community, later influencing colorism and overall discrimination against Black bodies and beauty standards for women.
As Jackson (2006) argues in Scripting the Black Masculine Body, “the body is the site and surface of race and representation.” It is not so much that black bodies cause racism but rather racism is constituted by the fixity of skin color. In other words, what establishes racism as an ongoing social dilemma is the set of social meanings assigned to the unchanging nature of skin color. This permits an inescapable, irretractable permanence to skin color politics and its accompanying social dynamics and outgrowths, one of which is
11 racial discrimination. Racial discrimination, no matter how or where it is contextually situated (whether at work or otherwise), begins with colorism.
Colorism determined privileged based upon Black skin depiction and is one of many ways Black men and women have been discriminated against and exploited. The commodification of black bodies is rooted in slavery, where slaves, particularly in the U.S., were considered no more human than a garden tool. Their utility was as an instrument; and therefore, there was no perceived obligation of the slave owner to recognize the humanity of the slave. This detachment from slaves’ humanity facilitated an industrial complex where Black people were traded, branded, owned, and constitutionally defined as three-fifths of a human, and therefore legally objectified, abused, and “beholden to the will of white men” (Cooper, 2008). Determining “field slaves” (dark skin) and “house slaves”
(light skin) served as a vivid reminder of how starkly contrasted the races were in the
White imagination, and what privileges were duly granted because of the presumably inherent superiority of White people and White skin (Hall 2010; Jablonski 2012). Although over 300 years from the time Black slaves were brought to America in 1619, Parrish (1944, p. 90) reminds us of a popular rhyme repeated by Black people in the early-to-mid twentieth century. This rhyme sums up the sociopolitical conditions confounded by race and skin color politics within the U.S. social milieu:
“If you’re white, you’re all right…If you’re yellow, you’re mellow…If you’re brown,
stick around…If you’re black, get back”.
Even with the official end of slavery marked by U.S. President Abraham Lincoln’s signing of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, this social mindset of racial division was deeply inscribed and internalized within the African American community. This crucible of race
12 began with the logic that whiteness was superior; and therefore, white skin color would henceforth be the perpetual signal of superiority. By contrast, the dark colors of Black and brown would be understood as symbolically and diametrically opposed to the superiority of whiteness. In fact, Black skin color would be socio-politically understood as the emblem of inferiority. This was not contained as a U.S. conundrum. Given that slavery was a global, transatlantic commercial enterprise the stain of White hegemony traveled with it everywhere slaves were transported and sold. According to John Hope Franklin there were an estimated 20 million slaves that were sold and disbursed throughout the world. The resulting matrix of social relations has led to whiteness being reinforced as that which must be at all times privileged throughout global societies.
The discussion of White privilege has been somewhat sanitized in contemporary studies. It often refers to social machinery whereby White people get to have universal access to resources and opportunities. This whiteness is associated to the privilege of having lighter skin, being recognized as ‘passing’. The conversations developed around these advantages does not speak to the vile nature in which we have historically arrived at this point. It also does not attend much to the steady presumption that White privilege has been earned or owed, despite much of it having been garnered through pillaging other cultures, killing those who would not or could not work, and forcing others into slavery or illicit sex acts.
So, the discussion skin color and hair politics, and/or workplace discrimination in this chapter is much more profound than a casual conversation about race. It is much more complex than some of the contemporary conversations that have devolved into justifying racism by talking about how many people are incarcerated, uneducated, or unemployed,
13 with little to no conversation about the structural inequalities in place that have played a significant role in yielding these conditions and a long winded history of a system that has systematically neglected the Black community and Women.
Women: Skin & Hair Politics
This section will expand on the conversation of discrimination again African
Americans by including the discrimination against women and the existing beauty standards.
Catalyst (2013, p.8) a nonprofit that helps organizations remove barriers in the workplace, explains that in several studies, skin shade has been found to impact socio- economic outcomes and education among African Americans. Hunter (2002) expanded on how colorism allows special passes and privileges to those with lighter skin complexions and that it plays an important role in understanding the experiences of specifically women of color and the complex social issues we see today. Being provided these privileges can determine status in society and influence the mentality of women.
Much research focuses on light skinned African American women and how they have held more prestigious positions on a socioeconomic level compared to dark skinned women and are viewed to have higher self-esteem (Coard et al., 2001; Hunter, 1998;
Thompson & Keith, 2001). These women are placed on a pedestal and are viewed as possessing “this form of capital (beauty) are able to convert it into economic capital, educational capital, or another form of social capital” (Hunter, 2002). For those African
American women with a darker complexion, scholars have found studies contending that the stigma attached to their perceived lack of attractiveness, due to skin tone, has been associated with health issues like high blood pressure to their physical identity (Keith &
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Herring, 1999; Neal, 1988). Overall, colorism affects men and women, but African American women are at greater harm and are critically judged on their outside appearance because of these early depictions of beauty standards and acceptability in society (Keith, 2009;
Matthews & Johnson, 2015; Snider & Rosenberg, 2006) including body and hair types.
The trials and tribulations of hair is relatable for all women, from the worrying about the style to the ground-breaking meaning behind a cut and color (Thompson, 2009).
However, historically Black hair has been a symbol of cultural expressiveness. Following the Civil Rights movement, Black hair signaled a sense of pride and resilience (Garrin &
Marcketti, 2018) and continued to shape women’s identity even when socially viewed as unattractive and inferior (Randle, 2015). With the development of products that allow
African Americans to straighten their hair or better manipulate the style, there is a rise in self-esteem in the women but a growing lack of understanding from those who are racially unaware of the Black community’s beauty politics (Patton, 2006). African American hair is in an era of reclaiming its heritage. Pride has been found in the kinks and curls of Black hair.
In contrast to the resurgence of self-pride African American women are experiencing after years of castigation, this same sentiment is not always felt in the workplace. In the workplace, natural hair of African American woman is “often deemed unkempt and unemployable” (Abdullah, 1998; Badillo, 2001). In these moments, the women are place into positions when they have to negotiate their identity, with a decision of altering or not altering their beauty depending on what is seen as acceptable in different spaces. For example, restriction towards “natural” looks was found in the case of Rogers v.
American Airlines, which prohibited an employee of wearing braided hairstyles in the
15 workplace, discriminating against her being a woman of color culturally and biologically
(Thompson, 2009). In another example, in 2007 an African American woman in West
Virginia was fired from her job at a prison for also wearing braids that seemed
“inappropriate” (Thompson, 2009). Throughout time, the creativity implemented in Black hair has led to a hair evolution for the African American community. However, society has contributed to African American men and women being forced to adhere into beauty standards that are sometimes unattainable. The self-confidence engendered in these individuals varies and is often against the backdrop of socially harsh judgments and one- sided interpretations. The sociopolitical fallout emerging from the way in which black bodies are scripted is debilitating.
Racial & Gendered Microaggressions
The purpose of this section is to address literature that explores how racism is viewed and interpreted compared to ‘old racism’, acknowledging its enhancement in microaggressions and the dilemmas.
Stereotypes, omissions, and distortions lead to “preconceived judgment or opinion usually based on limited information” (Tatum, 2008, p.5). Society can identify this as prejudicial behavior, discriminatory actions, or simply racism; a social construct that considers race and ethnicity and because of the hierarchy systems we are exposed to, disparities are established amongst “ethno-racial groups” (Bonilla-Silva, 1997; Berman &
Paradies, 2008, p. 216). Many people have entered this ideal realm that ethnical discrimination and racism is are no longer a concern in society and that all groups now have equal opportunities and access to resources (Harvey Wingfield & Feagin, 2010). Some
16 scholars today note this as the ‘Obama Effect’, thinking that race is no longer a determining factor of treatment in this “post-racial era” and chances in America, or that race is declining in significance (D’Souza 1995; Wilson 1978). This color-blind mentality persuades those with privilege to dismiss the historical contexts of people of color’s (POC) experience, making it easier to see racism as an invisible cloak.
Expressions of racism have morphed, hiding in our cultural assumptions, beliefs, and values (Sue, 2010, p.8). A nuanced system emerged during the post-Civil Rights era called “New Racism”, acting as a new style of discrimination that is “mostly subtle and institutionalized” (Bonilla-Silva & Dietrich, 2011). The discreet process of a person in power directing remarks or small slights toward marginalized groups was originally identified as microaggressions. It was often described as indirect or direct “jabs” towards
African Americans (Pierce, 1970). “In fact, the major vehicle for racism in this country is offenses done to blacks by whites in this sort of gratuitous never-ending way. Almost all black-white racial interactions are characterized by white put-downs, done in automatic, pre-conscious, or unconscious fashion” (Pierce, 1974, p. 515). Sue (2010) later expanded on Pierce’s original theory to be more inclusive with a broader definition including
“intentional or unintentional, indignities that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial, slights and insults to the target person or group” (Sue et al., 2009, p. 273).
Four Dilemmas were established while understanding microaggressions for both
White perpetrators and people of color by Sue et al. (2007). The first dilemma is the ‘Clash of Racial Realities’, being one’s denial of being racist or being capable of racist behavior towards people of color, especially in era of “racism no longer being a factor” (p. 277).
Minorities are placed in positions of perceiving White people as racially insensitive, belief
17 of superiority, and wanting control over the space and bodies in it. The second dilemma is the ‘Invisibility of Unintentional Expressions of Bias,’ which is demonstrated in the approach of black suspects versus white suspects interacting with law enforcement or even prison reinforcement (Blair, Judd, & Chapleau, 2004; Plant & Peruche, 2005). All situations lack conscious awareness of responding differently based upon race, reiterating color blindness (Sue et al., 2007). The third dilemma is the ‘Perceived Minimal Harm of Racial
Microaggressions,’ which refers to simply victim blaming and lacking sincerity. The perpetrator looks to the victim as being overly sensitive or ‘petty’, wanting them to get over it, let it go, and move forward because it is not a big deal in their eyes. The last dilemma is labeled ‘The Catch-22 of Responding to Microaggressions’ being the moments of confusion and caught off guard. The victim is “connecting the dots” and determining how to properly react to what they think is a microaggression (p. 279). These dilemmas set a foundation for understanding microaggressions and opens the floor to dialogue concerning further identities.
Sue (2010, p. 35) was able to expand on who is included in the racial microaggression theory by focusing on other marginalized groups that are typically discriminated against, including “disability-based, class-based, sexual orientation, and gender based”. Just like racism, we see a commonality within sexism. Yes, there has been in a decline within different spaces and a growth of equality, however there is still a subtle unfair treatment visible amongst women in different spaces such as the workplace or other male dominant areas (Bible & Hill, 2007). Everyday sexism in the daily lives and experiences of interpersonal discrimination has been examined by scholars, discovering that subtle manifestations are surpassing blatant sexist beliefs (Becker and Swim, 2011;
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Tougas, Brown, Beaton, & St-Pierre, 1999). Extensive research has been conducted on gendered microaggressions exploring the impact on women in different spaces and prior results reflect negative impact to outcomes such as job satisfaction, commitment to their occupation, and long-term future career wise (Folet et al., 2015). The motivation and job performance can overall be affected once someone is attacked in subtle ways (Dipboye &
Colella, 2005; Swim et al., 2001) so significance lies in creating dialogue around the topic of microaggressions.
This aversive racism and sexism have now become a growing field of research, being identified in different spaces and in different forms, such as the classroom settings
(Minikel-Lacocque, 2013; Sue et. al., 2009; Yosso et al., 2009) and limited information of the workplace (Basford et al., 2014; Pictan et. al., 2018). With the increase in awareness of microaggressions, we now see a rise in research of the effects and future implications in order to improve these spaces. However, we are not seeing a decrease in the amount of subtle offenses directed towards marginalized groups, and often research fails to properly investigate the multiple intersectional identities (e.g. gender, race, class, etc.) being discriminated against at the same time.
Workplace Discrimination
This section will explore the different forms of discrimination in the workplace, building to the specific barriers Black women face in the workplace.
Discrimination based upon a person’s gender, sex, age, race, physical or mental capability, marital or parent status, and beliefs can take place in different settings (Pagura,
2012). Arguably the workplace is among the most common space of reported acts of
19 discrimination (Yen et al., 1999; Krieger et al., 2006) even with the creation of the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act barring employers from discriminating based upon religion, sex, color, race, and national origin (AAUW, 2019). It is unlawful during the process of hiring, compensation, and even firing of employees but somehow, we still see discrimination of different forms prominent in the workplace today. In addition, Title IX was enacted to fill the gap and prohibit discrimination, making it clear that any form of sexual harassment and assault is considered a form of sexual discrimination (AAUW, 2019). Overt discrimination remains to be illegal but subtle discrimination continues to manifest.
Scholars have argued that organizations should pay more attention to subtle forms of discrimination pertaining the daily interactions in the workplace (Cortina, 2008;
Ogbonna and Harris, 2006) but the underlying issue falls into identifying these forms. Laer
& Janssens (2011) identified five different elements to make a clear distinction of different forms of discrimination being: “openness, intentionality, ease of interpretation, pervasiveness and the extent to which it is accepted in society” (p. 1205). The findings further indicated the importance of power perspective and ambiguous experiences to understand the discrimination happening and its effect on empowerment, normalization and legitimization. So basically, blatant discrimination is out of style and soft, subtle discrimination is the new approach to maintaining power in society and the workplace. The invisible barriers for minorities are evolving and making the power structure more problematic, including one’s intersected identity.
Barriers for Black Women in the Workplace
Malcolm X argued decades ago that, “The most disrespected woman in America, is the Black woman. The most unprotected person in America is the black woman. The most
20 neglected person is the black woman” (Genius, 2015). African American women are considered a double binary or double outsider because of their dual status of their race and gender (Denton, 1990). Szymankski & Lewis (2016) defines ‘Gendered Racism’ as the exploration of African American women’s experience with the intersection of racism and sexism, while using Black Feminist scholarship. This double jeopardy typically measures the experience with the two identities separately, which fails to fully capture the point of intersection. This section focused on the ethnic and sexual harassment of African American women and there was a significant difference between White men and women.
Furthermore, in a debate of who has it worse, Szymankski & Lewis (2016) found that those who typically have it worse are ironically those who are also often left out of the discussion, being African American women. These women are at a risk and need more attention to both their identities.
Women and African Americans were hindered for centuries before gaining the same rights offered to White men being the reason why we see many ‘firsts’ still happening in different career paths, such as Gina Haspel being the first woman to become the Director of
Central Intelligence Agency (Sabur, 2018) or Toni Preckwinkle and Lori Lightfoot
(Holcombe, 2019), both running for Chicago’s mayor becoming the first Black woman to do so. The capability, intelligence and authority of women and African Americans is often questioned, criticized, or misunderstood. Unfortunately, those who have the power to make decisions tend to view minorities and women as less competent and less capable of running organizations compared to White men (Carton and Rosette, 2011; Rosette, Leonardelli, and
Phillips, 2008).
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Bell (2004) studied the myths and stereotypes of particularly Black women and noted that companies are often hesitant to appoint them to executive leadership positions because of the belief that they lack in “skills, leadership ability, savvy, and drive to successfully compete in the executive suite” (p. 165). Given the tremendous weight of hegemonic interpretations of their competency Black women sometimes find themselves experiencing negative self-talk based on the perceptions of being intellectually inferior, which ultimately undermines their credibility. There are reports of African Americans constantly feeling the need to prove their ability (Sue et al., 2009; Torres et al., 2010). In addition, women are automatically perceived to be emotionally unstable beings, which affects outsiders’ views of their capacity to handle decisions, and their overall inability to be respected and trustworthy. For instance, Ryan et al. (2007) explained that assumptions of women’s emotions are labeled as sensitive.
Racial Battle Fatigue in the Workplace.
The purpose of this section is to provide a preview of literature that explores the physical, mental, and emotional damages discrimination has on an individual and trauma and coping established from the workplace incidents.
Racial battle fatigue (RBF) is a theoretical framework that considers the different levels of stressors from physiological (high anxiety, insomnia), to psychological
(resentment, anger, confusion), and behavioral (self-doubt, isolation, resilience) responses while fighting discrimination (Smith et al., 2011). With all the inequality faced for African
Americans and women, there seems to be a lack of conversations held after someone is targeted because of their identity and scholars have found that there is a linkage between
22 those who have been oppressed and the effect on one’s psychological state (Lewis et al.,
2012; Green & Darity; 2010). Additionally, not only have scholars linked depression, anxiety, and distress (Bowling & Beehr, 2006; Pavalko, Mossakowski, & Hamilton, 2003) to harassment and discrimination in the workplace but also accumulated evidence for generalized workplace harassment, linking to alcohol and substance usage (Thrasher et al.,
2016). There is a wide range of literature emphasizing health issues and discrimination in the workplace, making it know that it is an important risk factor to gain control in the work environment however, we see a rise in ill health, mortality, and impaired physical and social functioning (Goldberg & Huxley, 1992; Murphy et al., 1987). Discrimination is present in different forms, towards different social groups, leaving its imprint one way or another. This effect has caused different consequences that seek for coping strategies, especially for those intersected by their identitiy.
Smith et al. (2011) examined African American male student experiences at historically white institutions and found that they were “determined to overcome racial & academic obstacles” as well as the “racial encounters produced painful psychological stress responses” (p. 573). This interdisciplinary framework has been placed in the front lines of social justice and digital spaces (Martin, 2015; Williams et al., 2019), continued conversations in higher education (Arnold et al., 2016; Fasching et al., 2015; Smith, 2007), and even targeting Latinas (Call-Cummings & Martinez, 2017; Franklin et al., 2014). It is evident that research on specifically RBF in the corporate workplace lacks in literature, however there is much research on the conflict itself and how individuals cope.
Coping Mechanism
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This section will provide a preview of literature exploring mechanism to cope with racial battle fatigue in different environments.
The act of coping is a popular discussion following subtle remarks and is prevalent in a number of ways, one being resiliency. “You may shoot me with your words. You may cut me with your eyes. You may kill me with your hatefulness. But still, like air, I'll rise”
(Angelou). Being resilient or having resistance simply describes a process of adapting a positive outlook in response to a specific disturbance (Norris et al, 2008). The ability to
“bounce-back” holds power, emphasizing the strategy as a system of surviving and adapting, facing change and internalizing growth. This technique is a response, physical or verbal and nonverbal (Smith et al., 2007) that can be defined as using one’s voice as power, leaning on one’s supportive network, or even becoming desensitized to conflict (Lewis et al., 2012).
In this study, scholars found that Black women college students with the desire to stand firm in their positions against gendered racism felt it was important to have a voice because they are often silenced by the dominant White heterosexual cultural of different spaces. While also studying Black woman’s experience, Shorter-Gooden (2004) found that standing up and fighting back were ways to deal with racism and sexism and that relying on a social support system was also needed. In social settings, having your “back up” is a sense of security and feeling affirmed in one’s position, similar to a safe space filled with a person or people to lean on, to collect his or her thoughts or debrief (DeCuir-Gunby &
Gunby, 2016).
Corbin et al. (2018) identified that it is important to have a support system or mentoring relationship when coping with mini assaults. ‘Support Network’ is one of six
24 categories developed by scholars Holder, Jackson & Ponterotto (2015), based on the responses of Black Women who broke the concrete ceiling as senior level executives, examining how they cope with racial microaggressions. The participants in the study discussed how having a circle of trustworthy individuals provided guidance on addressing racial conflict in the workplace. ‘Sponsorship and Mentoring’ is another category created that allowed Black leaders to receive advice from other Black women, providing a sense of protection. This idea can be recognized as having your “black-up”; individuals who are black and identify as you do, serving as your support system. Scholars who have explored marginalized communities in different spaces have also found that there should be active recruiting of people of color in order to create role models or potential mentors who are resilient and will protect against misogyny (Fries-Britt, Rowan-Kenyon, Perna, Milem,
Howard, 2011; Smith, 2015), yet there is still a gap in studying the atmosphere of the workplace outside of academia. These tropes of mini assaults are draining to the racially oppressed group and can emotionally spread, causing further health issues.
Imposter Syndrome
Often individuals are their worse critics because of negative self-thoughts of feeling incapable, resulting in Imposter Syndrome. It is the psychological experience of intellectual fraudulence outside one’s actual performance; the belief of fooling those on the outside and feeling undeserving of success. The phenomenon is rooted in theories of self-concept and self-efficacy that have long highlighted the different emotional and behavioral reactions to self-discrepancies (Schlegel et al., 2009; Swann et al, 2007). ‘What I think I am’ and ‘What I think others think I am’ are too continuing battles based off experiences and one’s identitiy, which is a normal process. Much of the literature on imposter syndrome explores the lack
25 of self-confidence and frustration created when entering new spaces, especially work environments, while accounting for uncomfortably and the overall well-being of an individual (Bothello & Roulett, 2018). Similar to identity shifting and negotiation, IP places individuals in a position of feeling inferior for different reasons.
Murphy & Dweck (2010) found that the possession of intelligence is a distinguishing factor of genius culture and these individuals often display changes in how they present themselves to others, as well as in how they evaluate those around them. All a part of adapting to executive culture, African American women are placed into positions where they negate their power and comfortability in order to blend in with a space of white-male dominance. Slank (2019) expanded on this idea with the belief that the environment itself can promote IP, explaining that individuals “underestimate their own talents by ignoring evidence for those talents—namely, the evidence of their successes—and are therefore irrational” (p. 213). He stated that specific environments may harbor a “culture of genius”, similar to the space where African American women C-suite executives evolve, protecting their Blackness, Womanhood, and authority.
Internal & External Managing of Self & Space
This section provides more depth to the way’s individuals manage the internal and external effects of workplace discrimination.
Dealing with RBF can have an effect on one’s health due to distinctive stressors.
When entering spaces of discrimination in the workplace, individuals experience internal and external factors that facilitate their performance or behavior. Locus of control (LOC) describes the extent of believing one has self-control over the outcome of different events, verses acknowledging that some situations and external forces are out of their control
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(Rotter, 1966). Choosing to manage in spaces of diversity and discrimination, includes developing different strategies. These strategies that can be viewed as coping mechanisms, are ways in which an individual is able to buffer themselves form their environment especially when being attacked.
The internal and external LOC is often a common concept for the generalized population of workplace employees, as they balance multiple spaces. In addition, these spaces must account for culture, which they typically don’t. Cheng et al. (2013) conducted a meta-analysis that explored the relationship of LOC and psychological symptoms such as anxiety and depression, implying that the integration of cultural meaning would bring a unique impact to understanding individual’s outcome. “A sense of internal control develops through previous social interactions in which one’s actions on the environment are reinforced” (Cheng et al., 2013, p.152). Dialogue and research about managing the workplace and one’s self, reverts back to the importance of acknowledging racial battle fatigue and its stressors.
In the workplace, the diverse faces of discrimination can be perceived as bullying with different levels of abuse and is considered a stressor with a variety of negative effects
(Hershcovis and Barling 2010). Lazarus et al. (1985) applied the psychological stressor- strain theory to victim’s well-being rising because of discrimination, causing “emotional and physiological arousal and, in turn, psychological strain symptoms” (p.618). Negative consequence of discrimination varies from depression and emotional exhaustion, creation of anxiety, total dissatisfaction from job, and mediated relationships (Foster et al. 2007;
Wood et al., 2013).
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RBF is a natural response to trauma, similar to post traumatic stress disorder or combat stress syndrome (Smith, 2004), that helps understand the response of different hostile spaces that are typically unsupportive. Once these traumatic incidents happen, a numbing feeling comes about that can be mixed with confusion. Sue (2010) describes that there is an impact on a range of mental health outcomes for marginalized groups, specifically stating that microaggressions represent chronic stressors that can have an increasing effect, leading to a number of physical and mental health issues. To further concluded, analysis has been completed to link depression and other psychological complications (Pieterse, Todd, Neville, & Carter, 2012) to the stress of racism, affecting one’s health. Hall & Fields (2015) conducted interviews with Black men and women focusing on the effect of microaggressions to their physical and mental health also finding that the remarks can trigger racial memories of trauma and that “hypervigilance increases depression and pessimistic mistrust” (p. 12). In the study, scholars determine that microaggressive incidents contribute to being stressed out, this including stereotypes, minority status, or economic inequality, though it doesn’t account for intersectionality.
Being a part of two social groups that are considered low status can cause bicultural stress (Bell, 1990). Some individuals are caught in a dilemma where they have to properly negotiate their identitiy in order to “fit in” without losing a piece of themselves, being stuck or town between the fantasy of what the company may want and how they actually are.
Parker (2002) examined African American women senior executives in attempt to creating communicative strategies for negotiating their identities in their leadership positions.
These women who are typically ignored were in positions to “make sense” of the race and gender dynamic in their spaces, allowing some individuals to feel as if it was a mind game
28 of who actually held power (Parker, 2002). Creating a system through interactions, the dynamic of white and Black power or authority is transformed and with the usage of
Jackson’s (1999) study, it reflects on the dual consciousness of the Black encounters when in White spaces.
The identity one expresses can be determined based upon one’s space and those in the space itself. Essentially, any shift is to happen to one or more in the aspect of cultural identities, the cultural contract is “signed”, meaning individuals either abide by the agreement or create a new one (Jackson, 1999). This contract guides individuals to better understand what is actually being negotiated in these spaces. Holder, Jackson & Ponterotto
(2015) describe shifting as “an accommodating, yet strategic adaptive response to racial and gender discrimination; in cognitive, physical, and linguistic ways” (p.173). Black women, for example, are able to shift their critical lenses, their abled body, their vernacular, and more to counteract whatever stereotypes are already projected on them in the workplace (Allison, 2010). This ability their identity or how they feel the need to portray themselves is impacted by societal views of their identity and possible negative talk being experienced.
Conclusion
The literature provided in Chapter 2 explore: the racism and sexism faced by African
Americans and women, including discussion of colorism in and out of the Black community and hair politics; the acknowledgement of microaggressions towards race and gendered; the discrimination that takes place in the workplace against one’s identitiy to the power they withhold; and discrimination can cause distress on one’s physical, mental, and
29 emotional state leading to different stressors and coping mechanisms. All literature builds to the idea of Black women managing their existence in the workplace when faced with discrimination and knowing what is at risked when dealing with pressure and power.
African American women in C-suite executive positions have the ability to create a wall of protection from the external discrimination, providing an internal comfort, helping these women to adapt to their space and create better coping mechanism, but how?
Chapter 3 will further expand on the proper methods that will be taken for this conducted research in order to answer that question.
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CHAPTER 3 – Methods
Overview of Methodology
This chapter will provide a description of the method and data analysis technique deployed in this study of Black women C-Suite executives and their workplace experiences with microaggressions.
In order to better understand the point of view of the participants a critical interpretive lens was applied to this study. This approach allows the research to identify the social barriers and give a voice to those who seem powerless in society. The critical dimension of this is especially significant when addressing issues of power and agency.
The interpretive aspect is useful to the extent that the voices of participants are being privileged.
The critical interpretive approach was deemed necessary to explore the lived experiences of women whose respective journeys to leadership were rife with not only the usual machinations of being promoted in the workplace but also the identity politics that attend any marginalized group person’s rise to positional power.
Dixon (2006) explains that critical interpretive draws on both traditions of qualitative research and grounded theory, both used as forms of evidence. In hopes of theory building, this approach allows space for questioning underlying assumptions, selection of materials, and open discussion on the limitations, thereby becoming a guide to further investigations (Deetz, 2009). The value lies in the ‘authorial’ voice of that which is produce from those who lack in power or whose voices are often not heard.
Recruitment of Participants
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After being approved by the Institutional Review Board (See Appendix A), participants were recruited via direct contacts within local Greater Cincinnati organizations comprised of Black women. The recruitment email can be found in Appendix
B.
To fully grasp the perspective of African American women in C-suite executive positions, this study included direct recruitment by invitation followed by snowball sampling. In order to participate in this study, individuals must have met the following criteria:
1. Identify as African American and woman
2. Live in the Greater Cincinnati Area
3. Identify and withhold an executive position (i.e. CEO, CFO, COO, VP, etc.)
4. Be a member of The Links, Incorporated or recommended
The process of recruiting participants was challenging. I began by choosing a random sample using a Facebook Group titled ‘Black Executives in Cincinnati’, which was presumed to be inactive as the last post was in February 2018. In attempt to reach out to reliable sources, the page did not yield any responses. Following this action, I turned to members in my sorority who recommended executives in the area who may have been perfect for another analysis, but for this distinctive study I specifically was looking for C- suite executive members. Trailing my lack of results, I reached out to my peers in a
GroupMe titled ‘UC Black Graduate and Professional Students’ asking if anyone knew of an organization for Black women executives, including C-suite positions, in Cincinnati. Luckily, a peer was able to put me in contact with his mom who is a member of The Links, Inc. but is not a C-suite executive. From there, she was the original point of interest, leading to the
32 women in the organization being helpful when collecting data. However, it did take much time to receive the sample needed; n=10.
The Links, Incorporated is an international, not-for-profit corporation that is one of the nation’s oldest and largest organization of women who are committed to “enriching, sustaining and ensuring the culture and economic survival of African Americans and other persons of African ancestry” (The Links, 2019). These women are business and civic leaders, mentors and role models, activist and volunteers working toward a like-minded vision of bettering their community. Membership into the organization is highly competitive, invitation only and the organization itself is very unique, homogenous, requiring membership dues. It is also very important to know that not all C-suite executives belong to The Links Inc., and not all The Links Inc., are C-suite members.
A convenient snowball sample was implemented to recruit interviewees creating a suitable, helpful access to the sample size. Members of the organization were also able to recommend other African American women who are not members of the organization but are executives willing to share their experiences of microaggressions in the workplace. All participants were recruited through an email sent out and forwarded by the chapter’s recording secretary or word of mouth. With proper research, background checks and provided curriculum vitaes or resumes, I was able to verify the positions the women hold or held verifying their membership.
Table 3.1 provides de-identified list of participants (n=10), the job title they currently hold or held in the past, and their affiliation to The Links, Inc. To ensure confidentiality, the names of the participants and corporations were not mentioned.
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Table 3. 1
Name (Age) Job Title Affiliation to The Links, Inc.?
Dorothy (37) Chief Learning Officer (CLO) Recommended
Kierra (41) Chief Clinical Officer (CCO) Member
Nicole (36) Chief Data Officer (CDO) Recommended
Trinity (39) Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Recommended
Tiffany (47) Chief Financial Officer (CFO) Member
Tammy (53) Chief Diversity Officer (CDO) Recommended
Pamela (56) Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) Member
Cheryl (45) Chief Strategy Officer (CSO) Recommended
Mary (34) Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Member
Charlotte (45) Chief Diversity Officer (CDO) Member
Explanation of Method
After interviews were scheduled, they were conducted using a semi-structured
interview schedule (See Appendix C). Semi structured interview schedules allow
participants to reflect more open-endedly than would ebb possible if questions were asked
calling for only dichotomous yes/no responses. The beauty of using interviews to collect
self-report data is that interviewees get to tell their story in a comfortable space. In order
to facilitate this all participants were invited to choose the best space for their interview.
The challenge with this was that these were C-Suite executives whose schedules, by virtue
of their positions, were pretty full, making me lucky for the time I did receive. There was
much conflict trying to find a common day and time frame that worked for both schedules,
34 so some interviews were shorter than expected and a majority of the interviews were completed via Skype or Facetime. Two interviews were in person outside of a Starbucks for privacy, three were on FaceTime, and five were phone calls. Complications with interviews being conducted included 1 specific video interview losing connection, causing a participant to repeat a response she did not fully remember and at times, the interviews in general seem to have background noises, later interfering with the transcribing software.
All interviewees were required to sign consent forms prior to the interview. Since many of these were via Skype the form was sent, signed, and remitted electronically. The interviews were on average between thirty to forty minutes.
Each interview was structured in a way that allowed normal conversational flow, as a way to facilitate a comfortable and perhaps more forthright articulation of experiences.
The interviews began with a disclaimer that the questions asked might trigger feelings about incidents experienced, so if a break was needed it was definitely encouraged. Also, it was reiterated that the information was confidential and would be used specifically for my analysis of themes, with the understanding of the risks associated with someone of their status revealing information so candidly.
After introductions there was some time for building rapport before asking questions about their current occupation and past academic/career experiences that led to their current roles. In between questions, if necessary, specific follow-up questions or examples were posed to clarify their responses and to elicit their interpretation of what a microaggression is. When discussing the idea of resiliency, respondents were asked to use a metaphor to describe their journey. This proved to be an interesting and valuable
35 question. As noted earlier, the list of the semi structure interview schedule can be found in the Appendix C.
Immediately after the discussion the interviews were transcribed using either
InqScribe or similar software, then the misspellings and grammar were corrected manually.
Dependability & Confirmability
The rigor of the study was met via two standards of trustworthiness: dependability and confirmability. The principal concern of dependability is the extent to which a researcher might achieve similar results if the same procedure is followed to collect and analyze data within the same exact population. Although this will vary significantly given the qualitative researcher’s reliance on the subjective nature of self-report data, it is important to address how the participant-as-instrument is providing answers to the questions in a way that is comprehensible. Here, one of the primary tools of dependability is stepwise replication in which the co-researcher (in this case the advisor) follows the same exact process for data analysis as the researcher and checks whether similar results are obtained. This provides a double-checking of the researcher’s interpretation of data collected.
The second standard is confirmability. This is somewhat similar to dependability in the sense that the focus is the extent to which others can corroborate findings. One of the tools for verifying this is member checking, a process during which the researcher reaches out to participants one by one and asks whether interpretations of what the respective participants said are accurate. Another confirmability tool used in this study was reflexivity. This was accomplished via the “researcher’s positionality” section of this thesis.
By addressing researcher positionality this keeps the researcher mindful of how the
36 subjective biases about being a Black woman executive in the workplace might interfere with interpretations of the data.
Institutional Review Board
For the protection of using human subjects, an IRB proposal was presented and completed detailing the purpose, potential path and procedure of the study for approval by the institutional review board. The IRB proposal included the study’s rational by providing a brief description, purpose through the guided research questions, the participant recruitment procedure and the method of data collection. In addition, an expedited form was completed to conduct interviews before the ending of the semester.
Recording Interviews
This study included a total of ten interviews approved by the IRB. As stated previously, consent forms were provided to each participant so that they were properly informed of the purpose of the study, procedure and planned outcomes, and even the potential risks and benefits of sharing their narrative during the interview. Participants were required to sign the form (Appendix D); subsequently, all interviews recorded were destroyed in compliance with IRB’s policies and procedures. The recordings were safely stored and protected by a password of only my knowledge to ensure confidentiality.
Research Questions
The following research questions were created to address the microaggressions aimed towards African American women in executive positions.
1) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinsults within the workplace?
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2) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinvalidations within the workplace?
3) How does the women’s resilience affect their coping with microaggressions?
These questions helped guide the study and were used to discover the differences and commonalities among participants.
Data Analysis Technique
Emerging themes were analyzed using the constant comparison technique taking note of the women’s perceptions, and how microinsults and microinvalidations, indirect and subtle microaggressions, have affected them. Constant comparison is the process in which interpretations and findings are derived from emergent themes. (Lewis-Beck,
Bryman & Liao, 2004). While reading through the transcripts of all interviews key words and phrases were highlighted to summarize the incidents happening. Each fully comprehensible idea is considered a unit of information known as a node. Each node was labeled.
There was 756 of nodes, which resulted to three categories and seven themes, and
94 pages of transcribed interviews.
After labeling all nodes the full set of nodes were reread, then they were grouped according to similarity. These groupings eventually became themes after they were reread and reassigned based on collapsing of groupings. Each theme was labeled based upon the type of microaggression happening (Sue, 2007) and the possible coping strategies (Holder,
Jackson & Ponterotto, 2015). For those responses that seem to not fit exactly in a theme or strategy, they were discarded. The decision to throw out nodes was made after reading through them once again and seeing whether they can be further collapsed under a broad
38 heading. There were a few outliers that stood alone and those were jettisoned. The conventional rule is that 5% of the total nodes may be discarded (Lincoln & Guba, 1985).
Researcher’s Positionality
As mentioned earlier one means of safeguarding against wanton bias in the study, recognizing there is no perfect way to eliminate all bias, is to provide the researcher positionality and state subjective biases upfront.
As a military brat, I have been blessed with numerous opportunities that I cannot say are available to many people. Through these advantages, I have seen the beauty behind being Black and woman, as well as the shortcomings. My experience up until high school was full of equity, so I thought. I never imagined a person’s race, gender or sexuality ever being an issue until after graduation when many of my peers showcased via their social media their discomfort with different identities that were outside the “norm.” Not until these moments was, I reminded of my intersectional marginality (i.e. my blackness and womanhood). This caused me confusion because my perspective of these individuals who I called my friends was then suddenly altered because of their negative scope of same sex marriage or police brutality.
My confusion turned into curiosity as I attended University of Kentucky to study
Gender & Women Studies and African American Studies. This academic pursuit spawned conversations concerning the importance of gender equality, acceptance of sexual orientation, and fairness amongst all race and ethnicities, so many of my projects focused on how those marginalized groups were affected. This academic path led to my heightened interest in campus outreach, earning the opportunity to create and execute numerous events that broadened my knowledge of how organizations operate internally and
39 externally. Grappling with various modes of difference domestically is powerfully significant, and it was only enhanced by further entrenchment in global race and gender studies.
My experience at University of Kentucky, a predominately white institution, prepared me in ways that I didn’t image but willingly needed to understand the unfairness of the real world. From instances of being called ‘nigger’ walking to class, to a peaceful protesting in the library leading to racist commentary on social media by White subscribers, a flame was initiated inside me. I wanted to create a platform to welcome difficult dialogues about identities and how they are affected in different spaces. Because of my personal experiences, I know how it feels when your voice seems to not carry significance, and its detriments to the mind, body and soul. The professors who taught my courses lacked in diversity and more so lacked in intentional mentorship. Our experiences simply shape our critical lenses and I can fully acknowledge that.
Seeing women of color in powerful positions was rare for me. I now see a growth in diversity in the workplace today, in between the violence against the Black community, but often we are not allowed to occupy a space of happiness, respect, and contentment as marginalized group leaders. This study is to shed light on there being a glass ceiling for successful women of color, and to remind them and those to come that they are capable even with the hurdles. Those who live in their misery will try to break those who are doing great things, but being your own boss is doable. For so long, Black women have been informed of the impossibilities, sometimes with no answers, instead of being introduced to success stories, showcasing how to cope and how to sustain resiliency in the face of obstacles.
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My experiences have influenced my identity and the wanting of understanding how workplace experiences of Black women executive leaders influence them over the course of a lifetime. This study centers on marginalized communities and how entering white spaces already on the margins affects their progress, even though they are great assets.
Understanding and reflecting on these lived experiences can enrich the lively hood of individuals and organizations, enhancing the experiences of both the majority and oppressed. Admittedly my positionality has influenced my rationale and approach for the present study.
Overview
In conclusion, this study uses a qualitative approach to privilege the voices of Black women executives. Their responses to interview questions were analyzed using the constant comparative technique. By acknowledging my positionality and biases, using stepwise replication and member checking, I am able to ensure the dependability and confirmability of my results. The emergent themes guided findings will be revealed in chapter 4, and specifically addressed Sue’s (2007) taxonomy of microinvalidations and microinsults and Holder, Jackson & Ponterotto’s (2015) model for resilience and coping.
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CHAPTER 4 – Data Analysis
This chapter will present the findings of the present study on C-suite executives and their coping when interacting with microaggressions. The findings of this study explore the different perspective of African American women who hold or have held C-suite executive positions in the Greater Cincinnati area to examine their experience with microaggressions in the workplace, how they cope with the experience and the extent to which they characterize resiliency as a part of their coping strategies. There were three research questions that guided this study:
1) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinsults within the workplace?
2) How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with
microinvalidations within the workplace?
3) How does the women’s resilience affect their coping with microaggressions?
The data analysis is organized according to three categories driven by participants responses to the previous three research questions. The categories are: (1) Microinsults,
(2) Microinvalidations, and (3) Resilience. Across the categories a total of seven themes emerged during data analysis and these are shown in the table below (Table 4.1).
Table 4.1
RQ# Research Questions Categories Themes
1.) How do African American Microinsults • “Angry Black Woman”
women C-suite executives
describe their experiences • “Can I touch?”
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with microinsults within the
workplace? • “Boys’ Club”
2.) How do African American Microinvalidations • “Not Always Valued”
women C-suite executives
describe their experiences • “Time & Place for
with microinvalidations Everything”
within the workplace?
3.) How does the women’s Resilience • “Need Support
resilience affect their coping Systems”
with microaggressions?
• “My Peace”
Category One: Microinsults
As shown in the table above, category one corresponds with RQ #1 and is titled
“Microinsults.” The participant comments made here expand upon Sue’s (2010) concept of microaggressions, specifically microinsults, which are verbal, nonverbal, or environmental messages that “convey stereotypes, rudeness, and insensitivity and demean a person’s racial, gender or sexual orientation, heritage or identity” (p.31). The Microaggressions paradigm conceptually suggests that there tends to be four categories of behavioral or verbal remarks being: Ascription of Intelligence, Second Class Citizen, Pathologizing
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Cultural Values/Communication Styles, and Assumption of Criminal Status (Sue, 2010).
Several of these tendencies are reflected throughout the findings.
During data analysis themes emerged reflecting African American women’s experience in the workplace as a C-suite executive. The three specific themes that emerged from the interviews related to microinsults are: “Angry Black Woman”, “Can I touch?”, and
“Boys’ Club”.
“Angry Black Woman”
This first theme, “Angry Black Woman”, reflects comments about coworkers’ presumptions about the participants’ personalities, based upon stereotypes that insinuate these women are angry. According to participants responses, the experience of an African
American woman C-suite executive is defined as rewarding but challenging by many of the participants because of the trials and tribulations typically faced. Participants described situations in which they felt that their White counterparts were intimidated by them and once an interaction occurs, their level of fear would increase or become more visible. In some interviews, these assumptions were created prior to an incident. Subsequently, some participants stated that once they became outspoken it created a negative picture. Most participants speculated that the reason was because of their race, gender or both. Dorothy, a current Chief Learning Officer at a Therapy Staffing Company, described her counterparts as too intimidated to say discriminatory or prejudice remarks around her because of her assertive attitude:
People are also very picky with how they word things in my environment because
they know I am not afraid to make comments.
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I followed up this remark by asking if she believed, “they knew she wasn’t afraid to make comments or that in actuality they feared her and her Blackness or her and her
Womanhood or her and her authority”? Her response was, “I believe it’s all of it. All three may be a threat but I have stood my ground enough to show that regardless of who I am and what I look like, my opinion will be heard”. Like Dorothy, Trinity who is a Chief
Marketing Officer of a Federal Credit Union that is located in 34 states, indicated her White counterparts would often ‘police her tone’ following meetings, assuming her attitude:
I know at times they may view me as bossy firmly because I have to be assertive and
self-assured, but I believe it’s viewed differently when a man, of any race, is at the
head of a company. When a man is putting his foot down, he is seen as a competent
leader and nothing less. With me, I am viewed as angry because of my race and
gender. The idea of “maybe she’s just doing her job” is not often considered.
Assumption about one’s personality and performance subsequently create tensions within the space, leading to distress. Tammy who was a Chief Diversity Officer at a local nonprofit in Cincinnati and is now retired, reflected on her experience as an executive, which suggested the atmosphere is typically male dominated and when the space was altered, fear was created:
45
When they see a woman leading meetings or calling all of the shots as they say,
people become intimidated. That intimidation would turn into fear. Fearing my
womanhood and my authority.
Beyond knowing that there is fear or intimidation embedded in others, many of these executives feared to be presumed in any manner that wasn’t accurate. They were fearful of what their counterparts would think of their actions and attempted to stay away from the stereotypes depicted of African American women. However, women like Pamela, who serves as the Chief Information Security Officer of a mental health center, explained how these perceived opinions are sometimes unavoidable:
When I started, I decided not to make any immediate changes. I blame myself
because I was frightful in possibly being branded as too pushy or too bossy. My own
fear of how others may perceive me is what kept me in a box of comfortability and
ultimately slacking on my duties. I carry the weight of program managing,
strengthening data loss and fraud prevention and securing cyber intelligence
amongst a million other things. I believed a slow transitioned into the company was
best for myself as well as others, but quickly learned there was no time to waste.
This leading charge of change did not sit well with many employees who were
employed with the company longer than myself; I believe they were content with
the current software and might have expected more power at this stage in their life.
Quickly, it seems as if my self-assured and confident attitude while convincing my
team to follow my lead to success backfired, as many employees made complaints. I
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was told that one employee stated, “I don’t believe the new CISO is meant for this
position. She is taking advantage of her power and needs to work on her attitude,
including how she talks to us.” Another remark made was along the words of,
“______is rubbing a lot of us the wrong way with her attitude. She’s been very
forceful with her ideas”. Essentially, the stereotype I was hoping to avoid still found
me after hindering myself for the comfortability of others.
Therefore, like many other participants, Pamela found herself worried about her counterpart’s perspective in the workplace, and even with the attempt to escape stereotypes, microinsults persisted, nevertheless. Pamela was asked why this may be the case and she simply replied:
“Well, if I’m acting as a boss with confidence, a firm mentality, with a hint of being
assertive, I’m quickly labeled as bossy, or too mean, or the b-word but a man, who
carries the same courage and intensity, will be labeled as a competent or a
trailblazer. Our demeanors can be so similar but still seen as so different.”
From the insinuation of fear to the tone policing of Pamela, many of these executive’s experiences demonstrate that their character is predetermined without prior interaction. These predeterminations are often based on stereotypes and have led to an intersecting societal trope known as the ‘Angry Black Woman’(ABW). The participants felt restricted to feel emotions and be assertive because of the possibility of being labeled. C-
47 suite executives like Cheryl, a Chief Strategy Officer of a private nonprofit sector, gave details of the emotional distress happening when paired with the ideal of the ‘ABW’:
Being a Black woman in power you can’t show any type of emotion, meaning the
emotions that may turn the clients or your peers and employees off. So, you’re very
limited to expressing happiness and nurturing qualities because the moment you’re
upset, you install fear in people. It happens for White women too, limiting your
emotions, which comes off as the ‘b-word’ for most White men but for the most part
Black women are seen as angry and the ‘b-word’ if they show any emotions others
don’t agree with. Black women have to consistently overthink how friendly they
should be just to avoid the Angry Black woman trope.
Jean (2009) states the difference is embedded in African American women’s experience and expression of tremendous anger and Taylor (2004) concludes that often these women are accused of their anger being unjustified or assumed. A combination of the reaction with the “angry Black woman” stereotypes we see and hear (West, 2008), then feeds into the dominant culture inaccurately depicting this demographic.
In reference to Sue’s (2010) theme ‘Assumption of Criminal Status’, the discrimination is very race and gender specific, believing that people of color, in this case
African American woman, are violent or dangerous, i.e. the ‘angry Black woman’ trope.
Along with this, ‘Pathologizing Cultural Values/Communication Styles’ hints at the style of communication for many African Americans being dramatized and labeled dispassionate.
The participants responses are reflective of both natures’ that attach intensity and emotion
48 to the demographic because of their characteristics. The themes generalize this era of
“modern or new racism” that hides cultural assumptions, beliefs, and values (Sue, 2010), making it difficult to identify the intent of the subtle remarks.
The C-suite executives were specifically asked about their experiences with discrimination and if it was intentional or not, leading to mixed reviews. Women like Cheryl and Tammy believed it depends on the situation:
I think it just depends. There are times when I have to realize that it is in their
subconscious so it may be unintentional but other times, I feel that it is intentional.
Even addressing these issues, most of the time the agitator or offensive person will
not admit to their intent. So, if they don’t, the situation relies on perspective and
proof. (Chery)
I wouldn’t say that anyone intentionally tried to make me feel discriminated against.
I believe most discrimination we see is 75% unintentional and 25% intentional. It is
often a nature verses nurture situation. A lot of people are brought up to think a
certain way, operate a certain way, and create ill feelings about certain things we
experience in life, including the people we encounter. This is not an excuse but more
so a possible explanation. We yearn for reasons for most actions so having an
understanding might provide clarity, a certain satisfaction. Some people are the way
they are because they enjoy hate. So, maybe intentional isn’t the right word.
(Tammy)
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While some women like Mary, a Chief Marketing Officer in the sports industry, believed there was intent:
Definitely intentional. If somebody ever thinks its unintentional, they are silly and
mistaken. White people know what they are doing. Even Black men with power who
belittle women, know what they’re doing. We are also talking about a different ball
park than most work spaces. The sports-industry is a very cut-throat space and they
try to break down others to see who can last. It’s superfast pace and its so many
people to report to, just for minor task. Majority of things going on have an intent
because it’s our job to make sure everything has purpose.
Sue (2010) considers the same ideas in ‘The Microaggression Process Model’ that explains the five domains of potential racial microaggressions: Incident, Perception,
Reaction, Interpretation and Consequences. Phase Two, ‘Perception and Questioning of the
Incident” specifically states, “Many factors often go into the assessment process: relationship to the perpetrator (relative, friend, coworker, or stranger), the racial/cultural identity development of the recipient, the thematic content of the microaggression, and the personal experiences of the target. All are factors in constructing meaning to the event” (p.
72).
So, within this study participants have presented how they their identity has created a dialogue assimilated to negative connotations, leading to the idea of being fearful or worse. These stereotypes, depicted for different reasons, have led to the trope of being the
“Angry Black Woman’ triggering the questioning of the perpetrator’s intent. With this, we
50 seen endless possibilities of why microaggressions happen and even more-so the role physical characteristics play in the workplace. This leads to the next theme about black hair politics.
“Can I touch?”
The second theme, “Can I touch?”, suggest that while working as a C-suite executive, their hair has been viewed as a topic of concern. Below are descriptions of participants explaining their experience with discrimination about their hair:
Some people have even given me a side eye and a head turn when I changed my hair
and I guess it seemed unusual to them? No comment has ever been made but you
can see the confusion and even once the disgust on individuals face. Some have even
tried to touch and of course I did not let that happen. They followed the incident
with an apology, expressing they didn’t know it was me” and I just explained that it
was rude and offensive. At times, maybe its curiosity but I just believe there’s always
a different approach, regardless if they “didn’t know it was me”. (Kierra)
I am consistently asked about my hair, if someone can touch it and how I’m able to
change it every other day. Why does it matter? No one ask you how you wear the
same basic ponytails? Probably because we don’t care. Someone has honestly said,
again in the beginning of my career, that my natural hair was distracting them from
their creativity. (Mary)
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You have to pay close attention to the things you say, how you said it, the way you
speak, and even the way you present yourself, from your dress attire or to your nails
and hair. I’ve had colleagues question me on the professionalism of the color of my
nails to “do you think that’s an appropriate hair style?” (Cheryl)
Comments concerning my hair weren’t communicated in a complete negative way,
but more so curiosity mixed with stupidity. Questions like, “Well how did you do
that? Why is it kinky? Why not straighten it?” and so on. I’ve realized that some
people are just truly uneducated about Black women and sometimes Black people as
a whole. This is why some people ask, “can I touch your hair?” (Dorothy)
The essence of African Americans women’s hair is a prominent factor in the workplace and provides a sense of fullness to one’s identity. Historically, African American hair has been a symbol of cultural expressiveness and is able to take on many forms and color preferences. The experiences of the participants are not directly addressed in Sue’s
(2010) theory for Microaggressions. No theme in particular addresses their sense of Black cultural from a physical standpoint. One theme of Sue’s (2010) that slightly compares is
‘Assumption of Abnormality’, relating to the perception of a person’s race, gender, or sexual orientation being considered as abnormal or pathological. This theme specifically limits the spectrum of discrimination by focusing on categories that attest to physiological features but again, doesn’t account for the physical features related to material things, such as hair, clothes, and other factors related to African American ‘style’ or ‘image’. Participants vividly express how their hair matters and in return, is seen as a question mark in the eyes of
52 perpetrators. The women are aware that curiosity exist, but the importance of Black style and their features still goes unnoticed and is unjustified within the theory.
This theme briefly showcases the discussion of African American women’s hair being questioned, critiqued, and treated irregular when viewed in the workplace atmosphere from White counterparts. The participants offered genuine depictions of their experience, while providing details of their incidents of discrimination. The discussions of physical appearances dictating the perspective and curiosity of others now leads to the third theme focusing on the participants being challenged.
“Boys’ Club”
The third and last theme of this category, “Boys’ Club”, exposes the most common microaggression experienced amongst the participants. These C-suite executives, some being the first to hold their position, have entered a White-male dominated space and have faced discrimination head on pertaining to their power. Several participants described their experience with discrimination, and the attack on their sense of authority:
So, I’ve experienced someone not trusting my judgment or authority based on my
appearance and age, but I’ve never acknowledged it as discrimination, which could
be naïve of me. An experience that stands out to me, reflects the sneaky culture in
the workplace. As the CSO, I manage the initiatives and market opportunities that
best support the company’s strategies, short and long term. This typically includes
restricting, joint ventures, investments, and so on. Within my first few months of my
position, I submitted a proposal for 3-5-year perspective, and suggestions to the
current 1-3 short term strategy. My team questioned my ideas multiple times and
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the comment I remember most was, “Are you sure you’re not overestimating the
expected outcomes? It seems unobtainable.” (Cheryl)
For most of my incidents, it’s been an issue with a White man and his acceptance of
my authority and the White woman’s ignorance of my character. The men are
always shocked that I’m the CCO, acquiring more information about how I got to my
current position, but sometimes the intent is not clear. I’ve been asked if I’m ready
to work in the “boys club” or if I was “ready to run with the big dogs”, resulting in a
HR report. Other incidents happened during interactions with other executives,
even before the CCIO positions, who would edit my plans for emerging technology
that could be used in the clinic and when I say edit, they would get a hold of my pitch
and completely change ideas. Completely overstepping boundaries. (Kierra)
Similarly, Charlotte who was the Chief Diversity Officer of a local nonprofit and now an entrepreneur, highlights her experience with not only her authority being challenged but her intelligence, in terms of being asked if she’s experienced discrimination:
Mostly indirect remarks about my capability, my culture, and most of all my
intelligence. I went to a HBCU for my bachelors and a PWI for my masters so of
course I experienced two different worlds. I’ve worked in predominately Black
spaces and I run into two common themes of questioning my universities
credentials and White people feeling the need to over explain. So specifically, in
relation to my HBCU experience, a people has asked, “Did you learn more at your
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PWI” which I translate as, “Your Black university did not properly prepare you”.
This hesitated me from entering a PWI in the beginning, because of the stigmas of
HBCU’s. Anyways, referring back to overexplaining, some people feel the need to
break down concepts that I honestly may be more knowledgeable about, but they
assume otherwise. (Charlotte)
Discrimination for these women varied in their career fields and overall assaulted their role in leadership. However, there are some women who state they did not experience discrimination at all or only in specific time periods of their career. Below the participant’s describe in ways that seniority and experience, determined their authority being tested:
Since I’ve became the CMO, people are not as daring to question my resume, now
that I make the decision if they have a job or not. I believe that my ranking in
executive positions created a privilege of avoiding second guessing nature of my
power. (Mary)
In the beginning of my position, I endured a lot of criticism and discrimination from
employees and other C-suite executives in different departments. Towards the end
of my last few years working as a CDO, deference was more apparent. I have
seniority so the respect instantly increased. There were times my decision to
implement different workshops and suggest joint ventures with other nonprofits
was bullied with questions, even when presented with research to act as evidence.
Colleagues said they didn’t “trust” the idea to enhance the workplace or how the
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nonprofit was perceived. Now, that I’ve proven myself multiple times, most
presentations end with “do what you feel is best. We trust you to make the best
decision”. (Tammy)
I think now that I have worked for the company for a few years, I haven’t had as
many issues but the first year was consistent discrimination and neglect. If it wasn’t
one thing, it was another. I found myself dealing with constant questions on the
decisions being made for the company’s exposure and development. I felt as I was
explaining myself and thought process to too many individuals who didn’t carry
enough jurisdiction and would ask foolish questions about my experience or
suggesting I ask a male colleague for advice before presenting my ideas or made a
decision. My reputation now, being strong minded and the success that’s brought
the federal credit union, has cleared the challenges that were faced.
(Trinity)
When entering a position of power, it is expected to be given respect, however the participants in this study earned respect through moments of confrontation. These hidden messages of discrimination are not unfamiliar though. As mentioned by Sue (2010) a common theme of microinsults is ‘Ascription of Intelligence’ which offends the intellect, complete competence and capabilities of people of color. Examples of this theme include going above a direct supervisor’s authority to ask questions they can answer or having your worked double checked by colleagues/supervisor. “Attributions of general intellectual inferiority and specific intellectual deficits are often correlated with skin color and gender.
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Women are seen to be deficient in rational thinking and African Americans lack abstract conceptual reasoning” (Sue, 2010, p.78). Experiencing outer doubt is detrimental to these women, especially when its premediated. This sets the tone for a lack of trust being established, making the work relationship more difficult on both sides of the spectrum.
Participants were not only doubted of their ability to be in charge but were also mistaken as being inferior.
Microinsults follows with another theme labeled Second-Class Citizen that is an unconscious message towards certain groups (considering race, gender, and sexual orientation) that views them as being less worthy, less important or even less deserving, inferior status. Two participants were able to reflect on the moments they were verbally demoted by perpetrators:
Sometimes this is something as simple as walking into a room and being treated like
a regular associate because someone doesn’t realize that I am their superior in the
workplace. (Trinity)
One issue that always bothered me, and soon after I wish I did more, was someone
mistake me as a custodian, even with business casual clothes on. They proceeded to
tell me to empty the trash and another incident, maybe my first week in my current
position, was being directed to refill the toilet paper in the bathroom. In both
situations I just politely told them I’m not the custodian and proceeded to tell them
who I was and directed them to complete a task. (Cheryl)
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All excerpts provide detail of second guessing the executive’s superiority.
Category One was able to explore the microinsults experienced by African American women in C-suite executive positions in the workplace. Through the participants experience, we are able to acknowledge the three contributing themes: (1) the assumption of their personality resulting in the idea of fear, intimidation and the ‘angry Black woman’ trope, (2) the questioning and discrimination of Black hair in the workplace, and (3) the constant battling of the executives positionality in roles of power. These are the experiences that set the stage about microaggression, specifically microinsults. Category two will further the discussion of African American women C-suite executives experience in the workplace with Microinvalidations.
Category Two: Microinvalidations
The second category, “Microinvalidations”, are the communication cues that exclude or disaffirm the psychological thoughts, feelings and experience of specific groups, typically being people of color, women, and the LGBTQ community. Sue’s (2010) theory suggest that there are four themes that represent the denial of racial, gender, or sexual orientation reality: Alien in Own Land, Color Blindness, Myth of Meritocracy, and the Denial of
Individual Racism. After analyzing data, two specific themes emerged from the interviews conducted: “Not Always Valued” and “Time and Place for Everything”.
“Not Always Valued”
This first theme tackles the internal battle for African American women C-suite executives previously discussed in literature. ‘Alien in One’s Own Land’ is the idea of being perceived as an outsider or foreigner in one’s own country, in this case, stranger in one’s
58 own workplace (Sue, 2010). It was immediately detected that yes, these women are now content with their current positions in life, even if retired, however there were moments in their career where they weren’t sure of their placement. The comfortability of the participants in the workplace were at risk and the following responses exemplify how the women often felt as if they didn’t matter, from their feelings to their voices:
100%. It’s hard to be heard in a board room in front of White men who feel like
they’re always right and love battling the slightest ideas that are different from
theirs. From the instances I’ve described earlier, they easily show my dismissal and
displacement. I honestly don’t think in the workplace feelings are a concern to
people, but I believe there is no way to interact with other people and not consider
their feelings. (Nicole)
It diminished my experiences and feelings to some extent but not completely. I
would never let that happen. I thought at times that I wasn’t good enough. I would
cry at home because I felt like I should find a different avenue. All these things that
align with self-doubt were happening. (Mary)
I remember one time my suggestion was rejected and following my statement
someone slightly reworded my idea and it was then accepted. It felt like a slap in the
face honestly and in this specific situation, it feels as if my opinion was somehow
inadequate. The opinion of Black women is not always valued. People pick and
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choose when to listen to us and at times, people are unsatisfied with the idea of our
opinion being the best in the room. (Trinity)
These descriptions illustrate how it may feel to be ‘the black sheep’. Kierra, a Chief Clinical
Information Officer at local health clinic and Nicole, a Chief Data Officer for a franchised banking system, were able to add onto the experiences:
I think it brought up the thoughts of not belonging or not being able to fulfill my job
position. A lot of self-doubt in general. Those experiences made me feel less than
even though I know I am more than. I had to snap out of it and get rid of those
thoughts pretty quickly, but I do believe they were damaging for my mental state of
mind and even my confidence as a Black woman in this field. (Kierra)
I would often question whether or not I was supposed to be in this position. I believe
imposter syndrome carries on to different fields and different demographics in
general, so I am hard on myself. (Nicole)
This idea of ‘not belonging’ or ‘not fitting in’ targets an individual as undesirable or unworthy of their current position. As Sue (2010) explains, it makes these individuals who don’t identify with the ‘norm’ feel as if they are not wanted in a space that called for their assistance. Often, this theme perceives individuals by their race, implying different assumptions, but for this study, race, gender, and power play an intersecting factor.
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Overall, majority of the women felt dismissed by the discrimination they experienced, using statements like “yes, absolutely” or “yes, 100%” but everyone’s experience differs. The following participants explained that they have never been dismissed and took on an altered experience:
No. However, I do think that when you do not allow yourself to process those
emotions you have the potential to suppress your feelings which is not healthy.
Specifically, the holistic self is to be cared for. Without it, there is potential to feel
dismissed especially when you do not acknowledge it or have the support to come
forward to honor yourself. This is why it’s important to acknowledge any internal
issues hands-on when they are first encountered. It’s all a part of the healing
process. When neglected, you then feel dismissed or unimportant. (Tiffany)
I wouldn’t say my feelings or thoughts were being dismissed. I’ve never truly felt
dismissed before, but maybe that’s just my character. Other’s opinions have only
pushed me towards success for the most part, even when doubting my abilities. I do
though subliminally dismiss their thoughts if anything. (Tammy)
Dismissed? No but I do believe it has definitely changed the way I view most White
people in the workplace. It’s made me less trusting of them because of multiple
situations that lacked authenticity and genuineness. So, maybe we can say it
dismissed my ability to feel complete comfort in my own work space. A space that is
supposed to be inclusive and equal. (Cheryl)
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Not exactly. I have felt cornered though. When I say cornered, more so I shouldn’t be
in a position where I’m second guessing my character because someone else has the
issue. (Charlotte)
These women reported a sense that their feelings, thoughts and experience were dismissed, but they were able to widen their perspective. These factors lead to how C-suite executives are able to manage the interactions, when faced with exclusion in theme two,
Strategizing Success.
“Time and Place for Everything”
This second theme has not been thoroughly explored through previous literature that focuses on microaggressions, specifically through the lenses of microinvalidations. The dialogue around LOC, being the managing of spaces from internal and external forces reflecting on identitiy and interactions is unaccounted. With much self-doubt and praising or blaming different factors, the executives are placed in positions of negotiating their identity and deciding how they should handle the situation and person. These participants are forced to stay self-aware of themselves, while also recognizing their environment can predetermine their conduct. Discussed earlier in the literature review was Jackson’s (1999) cultural contract, that is “signed” once there is a shift to the individual’s cultural identity.
Through the systems created by interactions, again agency is established, and this contract then helps guide individuals to better comprehend the negotiated space, specifically theses
African American women transforming their behavior when discriminated against in the
62 workplace. This concept emphasizes the importance of considering the internal and external managing of self and space, and why this research is needed to extend the microaggression theory.
The C-suite executives in the study were asked how they were able to navigate these communication encounters, finding a common thread hinting at resiliency, which will be discussed in Category Three. Many responses acknowledge the importance of balancing their professionalism and staying true to their self. Participants were not in a complete agreeance of the ‘accurate decision’ to be made, but I found it interesting that the responses of Kierra and Cheryl acknowledged their power in these predicaments:
I believe I politely let them know about themselves. I truly let them know about
their wrongdoings and act accordingly. I approached the situation in the best
manner, so no ill feelings existed afterwards. Addressing the issues head on
prevents further altercations. You can’t let the stupidity of others get in the way of
you doing your job so either you get over it or you discuss with a purpose. (Kierra)
So, I just ask questions to clarify their offensive actions and try my best to
consciously decide their intentions or their purpose and proceed from there, while
remembering my status. I have to remember I am in charge in most cases, so this is
why I don’t entertain all ignorance. I have to be mindful that there some things that
happen unintentionally, so I give employees benefit of the doubt but also, I am there
to do a job not babysit and correct every characteristic. Overall, I would try to
express how I felt about the situation, be assertive and pay attention to their
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reactions and responses to my comments. The purpose of conversations is to install
a lesson to be learned and creation a solution. (Cheryl)
Kierra and Cheryl who were once challenged by those around them, did not allow discrimination and assumptions interfere with the responsibility that comes with their job positions. Instead, they decided to handle the situation in the ‘proper manner’, problem solving for an outcome that makes them comfortable and is taken seriously.
Throughout Category two, the first theme “Not Always Valued” expresses the C-suite executives not feeling like they are included in their work space, even after positive interactions. The idea of ‘Alien in One’s Own Land’ struct the core of their perceived feeling of not belonging or fitting in because of the dismissal and disapproval for their counterparts. In the second theme, “Time and Place for Everything”, participants are able to regain their power in order to handle business, while separating any personal feelings and thoughts. They negotiate their identity like the Cultural Contract Theory, choosing to accept or reject a certain path to go down. This path can include getting over the situation and not taking it too personal, think before speaking in general, and the popular decision of addressing the issue heads on. Category three will explore the resiliency created when faced by microaggressions and the idea of coping.
Category Three: Resilience
The third category corresponding with RQ #3 is labeled “Resilience”. Ledesma
(2014) described this theoretical framework as the ability to persist and conquer adversity throughout all situations that cause discomfort. It is also associated with the idea of being
64 revived and prospering repeatedly, through challenging experiences. Werner & Smith’s
(2001) study used O’Leary’s (1998) compensatory model of resilience and found four central characteristics emerging for resilience: “an active approach toward problem- solving, a tendency to perceive experiences in a positive light even when they were suffering, the ability to gain other people’s positive attention, and a strong reliance on faith to maintain a positive life view” (Ledesma, 2014, p.2). The model sees resilience as a factor of neutralizing exposures to risk. The predicted outcome is risk factors and compensatory independently contributing. The data analyzed from this study found two emerging themes: “Need Support Systems” and “My Peace”.
“Need Support Systems”
In Chapter 2, it was established that resilience is the ability to bounce back, survive and adapt. Much like that definition, there was an overwhelming approach to viewing resilience as “the ability to bounce back, being strong, and not giving up” from participants in this study. Lewis et al. (2012) stated that this technique of being resilient can also be defined as leaning on one’s supportive network. Scholars have inclusively found that having your “back up” or supportive network is a sense of security and feeling affirmed in one’s position, similar to a safe space filled with a person or people to lean on in order to cope(DeCuir-Gunby & Gunby, 2016; Shorter-Gooden, 2004). The following responses were recorded by participants mentioning their trustworthy network:
It’s important to create and keep your group of confidants close by. You can
consider this your go to team. This will be your support system that you can trust in
the work place and outside the workplace. You can create two separate ones or an
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overlapping team. The confidants you choose typically are those who look like you,
but that doesn’t mean they have to. They should be understanding but also willing to
be honest with you. (Trinity)
Make sure you surround yourself with people that will be honest with you and
support you. It’s too many phony people out there to not have some folks to rely on.
Without my support system, I’m not sure where I would be in all honesty. (Pamela)
Overlapping the idea of others impact is identifying those who can be seen as a role model or mentor, going the extra step in support. Corbin et al. (2018) identified that it is important to have a support system or mentoring relationship when coping with microaggressions and scholars Holder, Jackson & Ponterotto (2015) identified
‘sponsorship and mentoring’ as a category created allowing Black women to receive advice from other Black women, providing a sense of protection in the workplace as leaders.
Dorothy and Cheryl were able to reference the need of role models in order to cope with microaggressions:
I truly believe that mentoring relationships is the best strategy for women of color
to move forward in their career. If we don’t take each other under our wings, some
of us will never make it off the ground. (Dorothy)
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I also highly suggest making sure you have mentors to lean on. These mentors don’t
have to be in the exact position you are in or look just like you, but it would be easier
for you to choose some you identify with in some way. You must also trust them and
trust they have your best interest in mind. My mentors have helped me to stay
grounded and navigate this space. (Cheryl)
Both terms relate to the overall purpose of relying on others to manage the discrimination and possible trauma. Referring to the compensatory model of resilience (O’Leary, 1998), one category created was “the ability to gain other people’s positive attention”. The interpretation used in this study is the aptitude of allowing another individual to assist in fixing a situation or allowing debrief. Though many of the participants acknowledge independency being installed in their childhood and having to be stern as a leader, they equally were able to admit to needing a companion in their corner.
“My Peace”
Continuing with O’Leary’s (1998) compensatory model, two of the categories are parallel to this theme that focuses on optimism. Participants describe their coping mechanisms for being resilient against microaggressions often relate to relying on their religion or prayer in particular, to move forward from situations. The category mentioned in the model is “a strong reliance on faith to maintain a positive life view”. The descriptions from Dorothy and Tiffany, a Chief Financial Officer of a university in the Greater Cincinnati area, speak volume to their belief and values:
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I turn to my scriptures you know. Hopefully I’m not talking too much about God but
man, he’s so powerful. My favorite is Hebrews 4:12. “For the word of God I living
and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and
spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the
heart”. My second favorite is Jeremiah 29:11. “For I know the plans I have for you
declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope
and a future”. I have a few Bible’s I color coordinate and the Bible app is helpful for
devotionals. (Dorothy)
Something that helps me is affirming that I am where I am because of the divine
purpose. Whatever that may be, I am here, and this was no mistake. God created a
plan just for me, even before it became apparent. (Tiffany)
Similar to, another category mentioned in the model is “an active approach toward problem-solving (O’Leary, 1998)”. This generalizes taking the appropriate steps to fix the feeling of being attacked or dismissed and can include the enhancing of a better mood or attitude. The identitiy of these participants revolved much around self-love when coping, so many women mentioned that they take an active interest in ensuring they balance self- induced activities. Below are their descriptions:
I take vacations, sometimes with my children and other times with just my
husband. Some days I need to leave early for a simple massage or visit my husband
on his lunch break. You truly have to find your me time, which could be as simple as
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closing your door for 5 minutes, putting your phone on do not disturb or taking a
bathroom break and sitting there. These are things that bring me peace when I’m
tired of having power. (Charlotte)
I’m all about self-care. I make sure to decompress after work. This could be getting
drinks or just lying in bed watching Netflix. I love couple massages the most because
my husband is just as stressed, and it’s considered an “us” thing. (Kierra)
Learning how to use more problem-solving techniques, relaxing, humor and
adjusting my expectations from others. All in one. (Pamela)
I listen to different podcast that are full of positive affirmations as well. There’s
podcast that focus on Black women, executive culture even sexuality so I tend to get
my day started with those and of course coffee. Oh, and self-love books. Michelle
Obama’s did wonders for my life that I even joined a book club. (Nicole)
Many of the women had a mixture of both themes as they cope and as you can see, there is different approaches to the idea of calming one’s nature once disturbed by discrimination.
The main purpose is to ensure that you have a healthy tactic meant to improve your sanity within in the workplace and balance comfortability.
Conclusion
This study chose a critical interpretative approach for the sole purpose of emphasizing the voices of African American women in C-suite executives. Following 10
69 interviews, the constant comparison technique was able to conclude three categories and seven emerging themes, that acknowledged discrimination exist in the workplace, even when it’s not directed towards the executive themselves.
Category One contained three themes: “Angry Black Woman”, “Can I touch?”, and
“Boys’ Club”. These themes explored the experience of African American women C-suite executives with microinsults in the workplace. The first theme provided support that acknowledged the attitudes of the women are presumed in a negative manner, prior to interactions with counterparts or misconstrued after an interaction. The C-suite executives conclusively feel as if their employees and colleagues are afraid of them because of stereotypes created around the commodification of Black women’s bodies. The conversation around fear and intimidation builds a foundation of seeing these executives as the ‘Angry Black Woman’ trope, pressuring these women to attempt avoiding the label.
This emerging theme aligned with Sue’s (2010) theory, identifying ‘Assumption of Criminal
Status’ and ‘Pathologizing Cultural Values/Communication Styles’ as themes narrowing in on viewing people of color as dangerous and embellishing their characteristics.
The second theme, “Can I touch?”, examined the culture of White counterparts inquiring knowledge on Black hair and criticizing its appearance in the workplace, often called “distracting”. This theme did not directly parallel with Sue’s (2010) presumed idea. It vaguely aligned with his ‘Assumption of Abnormality’, expressing the perception of the marginalized community as abnormal, specifically the physicality of Black culture and style.
The third theme, “Boys’ Club”, explored the content around the authority, role of power, and intelligence of the C-suite executives being interrogated, mocked, and demeaned. It is evident that trust is not initially created with these women, leading to the incidents,
70 possibly caused by jealousy or doubt because their credentials are often ignored. In addition, I speculate that age and experience was a determining factor on how much respect is received initially in the workplace and could explain how the women answered all questions. Much like Sue’s (2010) theory, a common thread of microinsults included
‘Ascription of Intelligence’ and ‘Second-Class Citizen’. The intellect and capabilities of these women was offended, and their ranking of executive power was also discredited. Overall, all moments of discrimination led to the microinsults that have affected their experience in the workplace.
Category Two includes two themes, being “Not Always Valued” and “Time & Place for Everything”. The first theme supported that C-suite executives do not feel as if they belong or matter in their workplace. There is a sense of feeling like an ‘imposter’ mentally and physically, producing a feeling of needing to second guess importance and value. Their experiences described conclude a feeling of unwelcomeness and parallels to Sue’s (2010) theory, indicating that ‘Alien in One’s Own Land’ as an idea of being observed as an outsider or foreigner in your rightful space. The women physically recognize their difference, but why must they be reminded of the power dynamic in a space where they obtain more control? Nonetheless, these women persist and continue to do their job, leading to the second theme. “Time & Place for Everything” explained that the women are forced into positions of negotiating their identity including how they react to discrimination, affecting the outcome. This theme does not account for accountability of preparators. In addition, microaggressions previous literature does not explore the idea of managing identities, generalized self and space exhaustively. However, Jackson’s (1999) Cultural Contract
Theory determines that once a shift in one’s identitiy is created in an atmosphere, a
71 contract is agreed on. This contract comprehends the dynamic in Black bodies interacting with Whites, forcing a certain persona to take role. These C-suite executives described having to remember “it’s a time and place for everything” and creating a balance to how they want to respond and how they should respond, especially because their emotions are consistently being watched by the individuals in the workplace. The inclusion of recognizing roles of power or multiple identities could fill much gaps in the theory.
Category Three explored two themes: “Need Support Systems” and “My Peace”. The first theme explored the importance of having a reliable and dependable people is debrief is needed. They were often referred to as “mentoring relationships”, “role models”, and
“support systems/networks”. These support systems suggested including your family, friends, and individuals in your field interest or generally inspirational, to your discretion.
It was highly emphasized that the support is ‘needed’ in order to be resilient in the C-suite and highlighted that Black women specifically have no other option, needing more resiliency because of their history of being neglected; underlining strength. This theme supported O’Leary’s (1998) Resilience Theory Compensatory Model stating one category as
“the ability to gain other people’s positive attention”. The significance of the trusted system of individuals is venting or debrief, in order to better cope with the trauma possibly created from microaggressions.
The second theme, “My Peace”, explored the purpose of including positive thinking and actions when coping and stressing the importance of a mechanism in general. Many of the women described their experience with coping as a sense of calamity, being completed by turning to one’s faith if religious. This includes prayers, scripture, rituals, meditation, self-love books, etc. Other suggestions established self-care activities as benefit for coping,
72 such as pampering one’s body or spending time enhancing hobbies. Throughout all interviews, the emphasis on having faith and specifically God, was an overall overlap of how these women remain resilient not just within their careers, but throughout life and the things installed in their journey to success. Continuing with O’Leary’s (1998) compensatory model, there were two categories that were parallel to this theme, focusing on being optimistic. “A strong reliance on faith to maintain a positive life view” and “An active approach toward problem-solving” both correlate with experiences given from C-suite executives.
This study has given these C-suite executive women a platform to voice their experience, but I would like to acknowledge that this is not to say they weren’t hesitant.
The interviews conducted took time to develop comfortability on both sides of the spectrum. Based upon the interactions and responses, these women may have power, but they have no control over feelings outside of their own, in the workplace. Some women who have gained further respect with time and age, establishing themselves beforehand may be able to shut down microaggressions more easily than those who are younger and newer to the C-suite. These women having power is what makes them different and places in a difficult position of deciding proper coping mechanism for receiving and handling issues. The goal was to ensure that women could be as vulnerable and transparent and hopefully avoid re-traumatizing, if any trauma existed within individuals. Some answers given were very generalized about their experience, while others gave specific moments of discrimination, and this can be found in the Transcribed Interviews, Appendix D. Chapter
5 will conclude this study with the limitations, implications, and future research.
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CHAPTER 5 – Conclusion
This chapter provides a summary of the present study by first reviewing the purpose of the study, then providing an overview of the literature, methods and findings before noting strengths, limitations, and suggestions for future research.
The purpose of this study was to explore the impact microaggressions have on
African American women C-suite executives, with the specific focus on the unconscious manifestations of workplace discrimination as manifested via microinsults and microinvalidations. Black women represent a fraction of 1% of C-suite executives in corporations around the United States. When they do earn the credentials and secure appointments as C-suite executives they find themselves having to cope with microaggressions, resultant negative self-talk and an imposter syndrome. They quickly realize they are unable to use all the same strategies as their White colleagues, because their leadership is often not construed the same way. They are not given the benefit of presumed competency. Quite to the contrary, they feel they have to prove they are worthy to be there. This investigation tells part of that story, realizing that these are only one small sample of voices. It was never the intent of this study to be a representative sample of
African American women C-Suite executives. Rather the focus here is on privileging the voices of a few as a way to take a deep, thick-descriptive exploration of their realities.
In an investigation of this sort it, it was important to give these women a platform to express their experience in the workplace and uncover the resilience that is used to cope when faced with discrimination. The workplace is typically a male dominant space, so intersecting race and gender widens the gap for success and according to McKinsey &
Company, 1 in 5 C-suite leaders are women and fewer than 1 in 30 are women of color.
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These numbers alone show the lack of representation of translated voices, expressing the experience of women of color. Furthermore, it’s important to reflect on what is needed to become a C-suite executive member, from multiple levels of success to the confrontations of social political issues. The small number of women and specifically African American women who reach these positions are a rarity and the ability to “get a shot at the C-suite” must be recognized as a unique opportunity with many accolades.
Research on the workplace experience investigates the struggles African American women face. The possibility of one’s authority and capability being questioned (Carton and
Rosette, 2011); feeling the need to negotiate identity (Jackson, 1999); being attacked because of physicality, skin complexions, or hair (Keith, 2009); and last but not least the possibility of doing the same work for less pay based upon race and gender rather than credentials (Austin, 2018), are just some of the hurdles faced by these women. Though we are able to recognize that some success stories exist (3.9 percent), the different categories of discrimination listed just give more emphasis to why there is a need for a study that focuses on the impact of microaggressions on these women who are looked at as “having made it”. Once they receive positions of power, they are continuously on pins and needles to accomplish perfection, as there is not many like them in the C-suite. Existing literature explains that RBF traumatizes those who experience discrimination (Arnold et al., 2016) but this study is able to investigate what happens when executives are traumatized. Are they typically retraumatized because they are in powerful positions? Does it create paranoia when reentering these spaces of white dominance? How is their leadership affected? Madera et al. (2012) explain that individuals do seek to become uninterested in
75 their field, affecting the work ethic when conducting a study focusing on bringing your identity work.
These women have developed a strong exterior in order to reach the C-suite, known as the “sweet seat”, but it is unapparent to what extent possible offenses have deterred their mind, body, and soul. The goal of this study was not to reenact any trauma experienced on their journey to their executive position, but to highlight their ability to keep going or bounce back while inspiring others with strategies to overcome. I hope that this research is able to enhance the body of literature related to subtle experiences of discrimination and the consistent struggles women and people of color face in the workplace.
Overview of Literature
The different barriers Black women face in the workplace differs depending on their positions of power, a hierarchy system distributing unequal wages, and the discrimination of one’s physical characteristics. Those with power tend to make decisions that view minorities and women as less knowledgeable or even less qualified of running organizations and holding upper level positions compared to White men (Carton and
Rosette, 2011; Rosette, Leonardelli, and Phillips, 2008). This perception, along with being dramatized as very emotional (Ryan et al., 2007) has led to African American women questioning their ability and placement in spaces, constantly feeling the need to prove themselves (Torres et al., 2010).
Scholars have affirmed that these women are underrepresented in high paying, high status jobs because they often face confrontation in white-male dominated spaces, leaving
76 them again uncomfortable and feeling unworthy. Nevertheless, this unwanted feeling doesn’t end. The commodification of black bodies runs a deep history of racism based upon skin depiction and race (Cooper, 2008). A privilege has been associated with lighter complexions, playing an important role in women of color’s appearance and the complex social issues of beauty standards. Explicitly, Black hair itself is reclaiming its significance on different platforms but research tells us that often the different styles are interpreted as
“unprofessional” and “inappropriate” (Thompson, 2009).
The external and internal variables of microaggression affect the physical, emotional, and mental state of one highlighting the importance of literature focusing on
Imposter Syndrome. It’s the psychological experience feeling like a phony, feeling as if you’ve fooled those on the outside, and feeling undeserving of success. The phenomenon is rooted in theories of self-efficacy that highlight the different emotional and behavioral reactions (Schlegel et al., 2009). Existing literature on IP explores the lack of self- confidence and frustration created, while accounting for comfortability (Bothello & Roulett,
2018). Slank (2019) expanded on this idea with the belief that the environment itself can promote IP, explaining that individuals underestimate their own capabilities by ignoring evidence of their success. People who battle this internal debate consistently question their next move, becoming overprotective of how they adapt to their space.
All these incidents of discriminatory and prejudice views have led to the mistreatment of Black women in the workplace, making trauma available to be established, affecting the mental and emotional state (Allison, 2010; Pieterse, Todd, Neville, & Carter,
2012). The conceptual frameworks used to explore these experiences and the specific
77 experiences with microassault, microinvalidations, and coping in the workplace for C-suite executives were Microaggressions and the Resiliency Theory.
Microaggressions are the verbal, nonverbal, and behavioral offenses, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicating violent or negative messages targeting the marginalized community (Sue, 2010). This includes race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disability, and the LGBTQIA community. The theory separates aggressions in three categories, although this study focused on the unconscious manifestations; microinsults and microinvalidations.
Microinsults are subtle, sneaky comments that are said to be frequently unknown to the perpetrator and targets an insult towards a person of color, who can clearly notice the hidden message. It houses four themes that provide insight to the intelligence, deserving and abnormality status, and criminality of people of color being presumed.
Microinvalidations is the exclusion and dismissal of a person of colors thoughts, feelings and experiences, consisting of four themes as well. Each theme provides insight to the idea of a person of color being considered an outsider, or the preparator is color blind, naïve of privilege and in denial of their discriminatory ways.
To understand the coping mechanisms used by C-suite executives, the Resilience
Theory (Ledesma, 2014; O’Leary, 1998) helped analyze data. It is often recognizable in organizational communication and focuses on the ability to survive and defeat adversity, throughout uncomfortable situations. The psychological factor of coping lead to the usage of the compensatory model by some scholars (Werner and Smith’s, 2001; Ungar, 2004), which sees resilience as a factor that neutralizes exposures to risk. “It does not interact
78 with a risk factor; rather, it has a direct and independent influence on the outcome of interest (O’Leary, 1998, p.427)”.
Werner & Smith’s (2001) found four central characteristics that emerged from using
O’Leary’s (1998) compensatory model: “an active approach toward problem-solving, a tendency to perceive experiences in a positive light even when they were suffering, the ability to gain other people’s positive attention, and a strong reliance on faith to maintain a positive life view” (Ledesma, 2014, p.2).
In exploring the existing literature that applied to the conceptual framework used in this study, it can be concluded that discrimination is a factor in the workplace of Black women. This in turn results to these women feeling the need to be resilient in order to carry on in their current positions. There is not much research that intertwines the idea of resiliency and microaggressions, but there is much information about coping in general.
This led to my decision to conduct a critical-interpretive study as my method and my specific criteria in participants.
Overview of Method and Findings
The critical-interpretive approach to this study was used to explore the lived experiences of women whose journey to leadership would attest to identity politics playing a role in positional power, in the attempt to understand the responsibility subtle discrimination plays on resiliency. The participants were considered eligible for this study if they identified as woman, African American, currently or once held a C-suite executive position (i.e. CEO, CFO, COO, etc.), and who not only live in the Cincinnati area, but is also a member of The Links, Inc. or recommended by a member. The Links, Inc. is an organization
79 for extraordinary women of color who are committed to enriching, sustaining and ensuring the culture and economic survival of African Americans, serving as an ideal participant pool. Choosing this organization for the convenient sample size created a limited population. Membership into The Links, Inc. is highly competitive, invitation only, and includes expensive dues, emphasizing its exclusiveness. Securing interviews with these executive women became the greatest challenge because of their availability. A lot of women were busy with meetings and traveling, resulting in 8 interviews conducted through phone or video and 2 in person outside of a Starbucks.
Participants consented to the study and acknowledged that they will receive no direct benefits by signing an IRB approved consent form. A convenient snowball sample was implemented to recruit interviewees and ten interviews (n=10) were conducted for an approximate thirty to forty minutes. Through using a snowball sampling technique, this again allowed members to recommend participants who fit into the requirements, especially since not all members of the organization are C-suite executives. Participants demographic information is located in Table 3.1 in Chapter 3.
In Chapter 3 under ‘Researchers Positionality’, I was able to acknowledge my biasness as an in-group member closely related to the target population and due to instinctive biases, that sometimes occur in being an ingroup member. In addition, I implemented two additional measures of confirming consistency in responses and researchers’ interpretations of findings, being member checking and stepwise replication.
Member checking was deployed as a confirmability technique to check my biases and too accomplish this I spoke with study participants and confirmed my interpretations of what they said.
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The research questions created for this study addressed the experiences of African
American women in C-suite executive positions when confronted with subtle discrimination, specifically microinsults and microinvalidations and the resiliency built to cope with microaggressions. Individual interviews were conducted between thirty to forty minutes. The participants were asked an IRB approved list of semi-structures guided interview questions, and follow-up questions were developed upon their responses. The 94 pages of transcribed interviews were analyzed to find emergent themes. A qualitative approach was taken in order to provide personal accounts of the experiences of African
American women executives in the workplace in an attempt to explore their occurrences with microaggressions and what resiliency is established in order to cope with microaggressions.
There were three research questions that inspired the three categories driven by the responses of participants. The three categories are: Microinsults, Microinvalidations, and Resilience. A total of seven themes emerged through the analysis: “Angry Black
Woman”, “Can I touch?”, “Boys’ Club”, “Not Always Valued”, “Time & Place for Everything”,
“Need a Support System”, and “My Peace”. The chart that provides the research questions, the categories, and the themes that emerged from the interviews can be found on Table 4.1 in Chapter 4.
Category One, Microinsults, was explored through three emerging themes:
Perceived Attitudes, Black Hair Politics, and Authority Challenged. The first theme provided emphasis on the dialogue integrated in the interactions of African American women concerning negative connotations about their personality or attitude.
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The idea of fear and intimidation have led to an iconic stereotypical trope, “Angry Black
Woman” being mentioned by participants, assuming their character is something it isn’t.
The second theme discussed the questioning and criticism of Black hair in the workplace.
The third theme, concerning the power and authority being held, discussed how often it was challenged or belittle by counterparts in the workplace. All themes affirmed to the characterized communication conveying stereotypes, insensitivity, and rudeness, experienced in the workplace.
Category Two, Microinvalidations, was able to emplace two themes: Not Valued and
Strategizing Success. The first theme emerged from participants mentioning how they didn’t feel as if they belong in their space or felt as if their voices and feelings didn’t matter.
This aligned with the idea of feeling like an outsider in their own territory. The second theme narrowed in on the ability to re-claim authority enough to balance their professionalism with their true identity. It was determined and further explored that these women “signed the contract” to negotiate their identity in the workplace, deciding if they should react in a specific manner. Both theses corresponded with the characterized communications that excluded, dismiss and negate a persons or groups feelings, thoughts and experiences.
The last category, Resilience, further explored two themes as well: “Need a Support
System” and “My Peace”. The first theme sought to explore how the installation of getting back up can transform into managing positive relationships with others you trust, typically being mentoring relationships, supportive networks/systems, or generalized family and friends. The second theme included the idea of relying on one’s faith or actions of self-care for positivity. These ideas were to create sanity for the physical mental and emotional
82 being of those coping and promoting resiliency. All in all, the research questions work collectively to show that there is a connection between understated, indirect discrimination, the total identify of African American women, and the ability to bounce back and cope.
Strengths & Limitations
Strengths
There are two major strengths in this study. First, is the method approach of using open ended interviews for participants. The study itself served as a platform for the voices of marginalized executives in a space where they are reminded of their minority status.
This method showcased the beauty behind an authentic story, being told in a comfortable space of their choosing. Existing literatures indicates that marginalized voices are often overlooked or unaccounted for in the measurements of general research, specifically organizational communication narrowing in on upper-level executives. The results show that there is value in the perspective of African American women’s experiences and that the workplace can be a detrimental experience for those who have to face discrimination more often in an environment where they are outnumbered’.
The participant pool itself can also be seen as a strength. There is limited research that specifically focuses on the C-suite and the struggles faced, becoming a foreign idea to discuss. Assumptions are made that success amounts to our happiness, so this is what is displayed to the public. This study allows the creation of an inclusive discussion focusing on women of color who not only hold authority, viewed as a rarity by society, but also receive a glimpse of their journey. Narrowing in on an inner group, stationed in Cincinnati,
83 restricts the number of women who can participate in the research. However, the demographic requirements can also be viewed as a limitation.
Limitations
There are two major limitations I found within this study. The first aligns with a strength previously mentioned - the participant pool. Choosing to focus on African
American women in C-suite executive positions who live in Cincinnati, OH is extremely specific. It created a limited pool to choose from and some women who were willing to be a part of the study weren’t allowed because they lived in an outer city or state or their executive position fell short of being considered C-suite. Also, the ages and job fields differed for all of my participants creating different interactions. Those older in age transmitted their long-winded experience within their field and how their experience in the beginning was much different that currently as they’ve gained respect from colleagues and employees. This possibly impacted the description of examples interacting with microaggressions. The participants being fairly younger were often the one’s mistaken for someone who lacked authority. Pertaining to the job fields, it’s significant to the study that some women were in occupations that did not include daily interactions with people such as technology and information services while others focused on diversity and inclusion.
The presence of microaggressions could definitely differ.
The Links, Inc. was my contact of interest for easier access to the powerful women, which also meant my access to possible participants was restricted, becoming more difficult to receive the ten narratives needed. The Links Inc. is a unique homogenous organization that is invitation only and request a membership fee making it an exclusive opportunity, providing a convenient population. It’s important to note that not all women
84 in the organization C-suite executives, and not all C-suite executives in Cincinnati are a member of The Links. It must be emphasized that these women are extremely elite, being included in a highly selected group of pioneers. In addition, being a C-suite executive comes with much responsibility. With that being said, I found difficulty in conducting the interviews, which is my second limitation.
Interviews, as stated before, served a great purpose to receive open perspectives of the workplace environment, however the actual process was more troubling than expected.
I had originally predicted that the schedules of the participants would be a determining factor for the location of each interview. Five interviews were conducted on the phone, three were conducted on Facetime, and two were conducted in person. I believe this predicament of the setting that might have taken place for each interview, plays a big role in the comfortability and flow of conversations held. Even considering if women were completing the interview in their home on the phone verses in their office on the phone.
In addition, the goal for interviews was 45 minutes to an hour in order to fully receive in-depth experiences from childhood to current status. All interviews fell short of that predicted time and were between thirty to forty minutes. Some women had a change in their availability and weren’t able to commit an hour as originally planned. This could also fall on me, as my schedule was also a factor in determining date and time. Another reason to consider for the interviews falling short is the possible speed of asking questions and responding, or not asking enough follow ups. Overall, all interviews were conducted with a genuine flow and I was able to receive the results needed and learn more about each participant.
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Practical and Conceptual Implications
Practical Implications
Prevailing literature acknowledges that the African American community does face different forms of discrimination in the workplace. These microaggressions are very common and current literature is now paying more attention to the indirect remarks rather than the direct assaults which is often compared to ‘old racism’. Research is describing the challenges faced in different environments, even the workplace, while also identifying the perpetrators and an attempt of intentions. Organizational communication has emphasized the importance of women of color in the workplace with ‘glass ceiling’ research, highlighting the influence their leadership has on the success of companies. It has been proven that discrimination of any form can be detrimental to the physical, mental, and emotional state of a person of color, while also accounting for intersecting identities of race, gender, and sexual orientation. Scholars have also explored coping mechanism for these experiences of trauma, to the extent of being labeled as PTSD. However, what can or should be done on the behalf of the spaces that are being entered? What prevention plans can be established?
The workplace needs a system based off overall inclusion. I believe one implication for best practice could be an all employee meeting to have a prior exposure to those entering new spaces. Some of the participants mentioned in the theme “Boys’ Club’ how they were verbally demoted by individual who insinuating less ranking, offending their power and authority. Creating a system that further promotes these women as they take on their roles and highlighting their accomplishments could prepare the company and those in different departments as C-suite executives enter predominately white spaces.
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Microaggressions and general discrimination typically put a lot of pressure on the oppressed to internalize the interactions, but the best practice of a mandatory meeting included in policies and procedures hold the company and the preparator accountable.
Another implication for these work spaces is conducting implicit bias workshops that tackle the attitudes and stereotypes that affect the understanding and actions in an unconscious manner, just like microinvalidations and microinsults happen as an unconscious manifestation. This process shows that it is bigger and the individual and show be recognized as a culture environment issue. Yet, I believe sometimes the individual and situation should be held accountable. The purpose of Human Resources positions is not only to recruit and maintain everyone’s benefits, but to oversee the social and worth ethic atmosphere. HR roles include training and workshops, so if time is taken out identify what microaggressions are and how they are commonly used indirectly, verbally and nonverbally, a possible difference in the atmosphere would be noticed by all employees.
Lastly, an implication to consider is the C-suite needing to cultivate the internal locus of control, in order to deal with the negative behavior. Ways of establishing this filtered environment, allowing the participants or other C-suite executives to buffer their surroundings is taking in interest what these women enjoy, focusing on coping. Category three included two themes, “Need Support Systems” and “My Peace”, emphasizing that women should include positions attention from people, problem solving methods, and turn to their faith when trying to manage their space and self. If certain book clubs or meditation groups were offered by their companies, focusing on their identitiy, the atmosphere of one’s social dynamic could be impacted. These C-suite executives need to
87 interact with those who are just as knowledgeable about their experience and create a space of happiness.
Having all-inclusive introductory employee meetings, implicit bias workshops, and hands on opportunities to cultivate internal locus of control could become the proper interactions needed for companies to resolve different issues. Often individuals neglect asking for help and addressing prominent issues so these implications could possibly make a difference. Most of the coping mechanisms mentioned in the interviews consisted of having positive attention from people as well as implementing problem solving opportunities, so it would simply serve ways of dealing with workplace power dynamic and intersected identities.
Conceptual Implications
Though it is apparent that success is an obtainable goal for African American women, this study is able to fill a conceptual void exploring the pressures of being a part of the marginalized community while also holding power and authority in a space of white- male dominance and discrimination. Using Sue’s (2010) Microaggression Theory approach provided a template of broad themes found that account for race, gender, sexual orientation, but not an intersection of two or more of the identities. Chapter 3 consisted of a review of literature that often provides research focusing on race or gender microaggressions, becoming difficult to stay true to the form of the daily battles of being
Black and Woman. Which identitiy should be pushed forward today? How are they managed equally? This issue was showcased in the analysis of Category Two,
Microinvalidations.
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The women were asked questions about if they’ve had their thoughts, feelings and experiences dismissed and how they navigate those encounters. Many women found it conflicting to identify how they should react when they are in these moments of conflict.
There was a common thread of realizing there is a “time and place” for all situations. This meant not only did they pick and choose was moments to address, but they had to choose if their emotions were valid enough to be expressed. It’s the negotiation Jackson (1999) discusses when these women feel compelled to confer and/or shift their identities, but when they come in contact with discrimination instead of specifically Whites.
In general, these women are adjusting because they are not only African American and woman, but they are superior and are expected to act in a specific manner, but which one is more valid? This all depends on which identitiy the counterpart sees first; their authority, race, or gender. To address this issue, there must be an expansion on the theory considering the dangers of belonging to multiple marginalized groups, and how it affects the role of power attached to the different social groups. The dynamic differs when you cross those invisible lines and that determines how counterparts view you and how you operate in that particular space; if you enter a dominant white space verses a space full of power of color, do you feel more or less comfortable? Do you feel like you voice will be heard?
Future Research
Routes for future research could include further investigation into the experiences of women of color in the same executive positions, providing a wider option of perspectives and personal narratives of the discrimination faced. The experience of someone who
89 identifies as African American raised in the south and someone who is Muslim-American born in the north, will completely differ. As presented in this study, the focus was African
American women because of researchers’ positionality but future research that broadens the demographic being focused on, may eliminate some of the limitations as well.
Future research should also seek to potentially do an altitude of things, like expand on Sue’s (2010) theory by discovering an intersected approach to microaggressions. My experience finding literature that conducts research focusing on race and gendered microaggressions was difficult and analyzing some of the interviews were challenging. The theory is limited, possibly because of the time frame and perspective it was written in.
However, it is reasonable to believe that the experience of someone who is Black, and woman differentiate from someone who is Black, woman and disabled. Those with disabilities are assumed to be weak and are given empathy but the stigma of Black women is generalized to be angry, bossy, hypersexualized; relating back to their emotions are uncontrolled.
Another idea for future research is considering the perception of microaggressions as well as the timeline and career field of participants. Microaggressions is a topic that has most recently reached conversations if different spaces, focusing on how they are disguised. With this being said, many people are still unaware of what is considered a microaggression, subscribing to the concept of microaggressions differently. Secondly, its significant to consider when and where microaggressions take place. If a scholar expands on this research, I highly recommend considering the age restriction and job fields. The participants of this study varied in responses that consisted of rich examples of their interactions with microaggressions and age seemed to be a significant difference. Women
90 who were older often failed to mention exact moments of discrimination and emphasized that most of their negative interactions were in the beginning of their careers or made statements like “once they knew who I was” people were apologetic or it didn’t happen again. These participants with power for a longer amount of time are well respected in their field, verses younger C-suite executives still in an era of “proving themselves”. The purpose of considering the specific job field may also determine the encounters of microaggressions. Chapter 3 Table 1 includes deidentified names of the participants, their job title and if they are a member of The Links. Women like Pamela who carry the responsibility of being the Chief Information Security Officer may not have as much physical interaction like women who carry the duties of including diversity into their workplace, such as Charlotte and Tammy. In order for microaggressions to take place, communicative messages must be sent and having a lack of person-to-person contact, may provide an opportunity to stray away from daily discrimination.
Finally, I believe its importance that future research reflects on the identification along with the individual’s identity. In the semi-structures interview schedule, beginning questions focused on the participants providing information about their upbringing or childhood, following a discussion about what values were implemented in their life for their journey of success These questions were not only for the women and myself to build rapport, but to truly grasp an idea of how they culturally identified themselves. Majority of the women mentioned they were brought up in spiritual homes that reflected on God or general faith in a higher being, giving them more strength in the world as an African
American family. Resilience is installed early on, as these women were raised by parents or guardians who reiterate they need to ‘work twice as hard’ then other individuals in as no
91 one can truly prepare you for like as a Black woman. Conversations are held in early stages of life containing rules of managing white spaces, but based upon the experiences shared, these participants believe that their families attempted to prep them for the unknown of society.
Conclusion
Becoming more aware of microaggressions and the different forms that they exist in is the first step to accountability and self-awareness. This study explored the experiences of
African American C-suite members in society and the workplace. The purpose of this study is identifying how these women cope with discrimination, while balancing other factors.
Much of the research concluded the existence of Black women facing different barriers than any other cultural minority, the existence of microaggressions and the need of resiliency.
The women who shared their personal narratives stressed that at times it is difficult to manage their identities while inducing power in the workplace, contributing to the gap in existing literature. Sue’s (2010) microaggression theory does not account for the physicality of minorities that pertains to their image or style possibly being viewed as abnormal. Culture is a spectrum that should be considered in different manners, even material items that fulfill one’s Blackness or womanhood. In addition, the theory does not provide a guide for those who are considered a double binary, taking on two or more identities. The participants of this study manage spaces that forced them to choose how they operate for the comfortability of others, conclusively negotiating their identity. Sue’s
(2010) lacks information on how to display these identities in microaggressive spaces, especially when there is a need to exemplify power. This sets the tone that those who aren’t
92 a part of the social norm, must establish specific times and places to be who they identify as.
If these suggestions for implications and future research are explored, the doors for research can create a greater discussion that can be utilized in multiple spaces, from higher education to the corporate world. This is not the perfect answer to solve all matters. This is just a step to understand the narrative of individuals and acknowledge how damaging our words and actions can be to those who even seem like they are strong and have it together.
The identitiy we portray can spark differential in treatment towards others. Taking the proper steps to create a true diverse, inclusive and equity space can alter the likelihood of not just C-suite executives, but those who are in entry level positions because one day, they may be in the same “sweet seat”.
93
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Taylor, T. (2004). “Defining Anger: Deconstructing the Experience and Expression of Anger by Race, Class, and Gender.” Master’s thesis, North Carolina State University
Tatum, B., (2008). Defining Racism: Can we talk? In Paula S. Rothenberg (7th ed.). Race, Class, and Gender in the United States (pp. 123-130). Worth Publishers: New York, NY.
Thompson, C. (2009) Black Women, Beauty, and Hair as a Matter of Being, Women's Studies, 38:8, 831-856, DOI: 10.1080/00497870903238463
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Thompson, M. S., & Keith, V. M. (2001). The blacker the berry: Gender, skin tone, self- esteem, and self-efficacy. Gender and Society, 15(3), 336-357. doi:10.1177/089124301015003002
Thrasher, A. D., Wells, A. M., Spencer, S. M., Cofie, L., & Yen, I. H. (2016). Workplace discrimination is associated with alcohol abuse among ethnically diverse hospital staff.Workplace Health & Safety, 64(5), 202-209. doi:10.1177/2165079916628878
Torres, L., Driscoll, M. W., & Burrow, A. L. (2010). Racial microaggressions and psychological functioning among highly achieving African-American: A mixed-methods approach. Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology, 29, 1074–1099. https://doi.org/10.1521/jscp.2010.29.10.1074
Tougas, F., Brown, R., Beaton, A. M., & St-Pierre, L. (1999). Neosexism among women: The role of personally experienced social mobility attempts. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 25, 1487–1497.
Turner, C. S. V., & Myers Jr, S. L. (2000). Faculty of Color in Academe: Bittersweet Success. Boston: Allyn and Bacon.
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Utsey, S. O., Giesbrecht, N., Hook, J., & Stanard, P. M. (2008). Cultural, sociofamilial, and psychological resources that inhibit psychological distress in African Americans exposed to stressful life events and race-related stress. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 55, 49-62.
Utsey, S. O., & Ponterotto, J. G. (1996). Development and validation of the Index of Race- Related Stress (IRRS). Journal of Counseling Psychology, 43, 490-502.
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Walley-Jean, J. C. (2009). Debunking the Myth of the “Angry Black Woman”: An Exploration of Anger in Young African American Women. Black Women, Gender Families, 3(2), 68-86. http://www.jstor.org.proxy.libraries.uc.edu/stable/10.5406/blacwomegendfami.3.2.0068
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West, C. M. (2008). Mammy, Jezebel, Sapphire, and their homegirls: Developing an “oppositional gaze” toward the images of Black women. In J. C. Chrisler, C. Golden, & P. D. Rozee (Eds.), Lectures on the psychology of women (pp. 287- 299). Boston, MA: McGraw- Hill.
Williams, A. A., Bryant, Z., & Carvell, C. (2019). Uncompensated emotional labor, racial battle fatigue, and (in)civility in digital spaces. Sociology Compass, 13(2), e12658-n/a. doi:10.1111/soc4.12658
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Yen, I. H., Ragland, D. R., Greiner, B. A., Fisher J. M. (1999). Racial discrimination and alcohol-related behavior in urban transit operators: findings from the San Francisco Muni Health and Safety Study. Public Health Rep 1999;114(5):448–58.
Yosso, T. J., Smith, W. A., Ceja, M., & Solorzano, D. G. (2009). Critical race theory, racial microaggressions, and campus racial climate for Latina/o undergraduates. Harvard Educational Review, 79(4), 659-691. doi:10.17763/haer.79.4.m6867014157m707
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APPENDIX A UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI INSTITUTIONAL REVIEW BOARD – SOCIAL AND BEHAVIORAL SCIENCES (IRB- S) PROTOCOL
TITLE: Getting Back Up Again: A critical-interpretive exploration of African American women C- suite executives coping with microaggressions in the workplace
1. PURPOSE of the research project AND GENERAL INFORMATION: a. PURPOSE The purpose of this research study is to explore the impact microaggressions have on African American women in C-suite executive positions, with the specific focus on the unconscious manifestations (microinsults and microinvalidations) they experience in the workplace. With this study, this marginalized group is given a platform to voice their experiences with discrimination of different forms and explain what it takes to build resiliency.
b. BACKGROUND 1) Prior research Microaggressions are explained as the brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, and environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial, gender, sexual-orientation, and religious slights and insults to the target person or group (Sue, 2010). Studies suggest that they leave institutions with climate issues that must be managed, usually through diversity, equity, and inclusion strategies and initiatives; yet what is not always understood and may get overlooked is how the individual who is being aggressed processes these attacks (Sue et al., 2009). Aversive racism and sexism have now become a growing field of research, being identified in different spaces and in different forms, such as the classroom settings (Minikel-Lacocque, 2013) and limited information of the workplace (Pitcan et. al., 2018). Holder, Jackson & Ponterotto (2015) conducted a study using a phenomenological qualitative method from a constructivist research paradigm for an authentic understanding and yielded in racial microaggression themes outside of Sue (2010) established taxonomy. The scholars found that racial microaggressions do exist in professional contexts and many solutions to protecting these Black women varies from creation of a separate personal space to having to negotiate their identity. Despite the attempt of keeping equity and inclusion in the forefront of these company facades, microaggressions persist across industries within the United States. African American women are considered a double binary or double outsider because of their dual status of their race and gender (Denton, 1990). Szymankski & Lewis (2016) defines ‘Gendered Racism’ as the exploration of African American women’s experience with the intersection of racism and
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sexism, while using Black Feminist scholarship. This double jeopardy typically measures the experience with the two identities separately, which fails to fully capture the point of intersection. In a debate of who has it worse, Szymankski & Lewis (2016) found that those who typically have it worse are ironically those who are also often left out of the discussion, being African American women. Research shows that these women are discriminated against: skin tone and hair, that is often separated into categories based on beauty standards and acceptability in the workplace (Thompson, 2009); capability, intelligence and authority which is often questioned, criticized, or misunderstood (Bell, 2004). There is much literature about their discrimination but a scarcity of identifying what coping mechanisms exist. Similar to post traumatic stress disorder, racial battle fatigue is a theoretical framework that considers the different levels of stressors from physiological (high anxiety, insomnia), to psychological (resentment, anger, confusion), and behavioral (self-doubt, isolation, resilience) responses while fighting microaggressions (Smith et al., 2011). Scholars have built upon others research to discover the effects microaggressions can have on all people (Nadal et al., 2014; Sue, 2010) and it is important to reiterate that the consistency of being attacked because of something one cannot control (i.e. race or gender) is likely to trigger mental, physical, and emotional stressors. Any one microaggression alone may be minimally impactful, but when they occur continuously throughout a lifespan, their cumulative nature can have major detrimental consequences (Utsey, Giesbrecht, Hook & Standard, 2008).
2) Significance There is a substantial amount of research on African American women and discrimination in the workplace, however there is not an extensive amount of research that explores the coping mechanism of microaggressions once they impact African American women in c-suite executive positions. Discriminatory and prejudice actions still exist but are often projected in a subtle matter during transactions, causing conflict within interpretations of intent, and how to react or cope. If conversations are created that discuss identities and language, it could be a great asset to human resources or diversity & inclusion offices, in order to dissect and identify microaggressions, leading to possible prevention plans. In addition to the significance of this study, being a woman in a male dominant field is a challenge but adding race to the mix creates an even wider gap in success. The Center for American Progress (Warner & Corley, 2017) stated that Women of color represent only 3.9 percent of executive- or senior- level officials and managers and 0.4 percent of CEOs in those companies in 2015. These numbers alone show the lack of representation within the workforce, translating to the lack of voices that can be heard when expressing women of color’s experiences. With this study, a spotlight is given to the women who hold c-suite executive positions, being CEOs, VP’s and so on, who are often silenced because “they made it”. It is not always clear what
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impact persistent microaggressions have on African American women and rather than further entrench the weight of the attacks they endure; this study will offer space for them to articulate their experience, inspire others by discussing strategies for how they have overcome and puts emphasis on the intersection of identities. c. FUNDING 1) Sponsor's name and type Not applicable
2) Sponsor's role Not applicable
3) Location of funds Not applicable
4) Status of funding Not applicable d. FACILITIES The research will take place on UC’s campus in McMicken or online video chat (Skype, Zoom, or Facetime). The decision for the interview location is based upon the participants schedule and convenience. All interviews will be held in a private location, creating a trustworthy atmosphere. In addition, I have become familiar with all 3 online chat options, to send instructions on how to use each of them. e. DURATION OF STUDY It will take approximately 2 months to complete the entire project (March-May). Interviews will be conducted March-April, needing to be completed by April 14th. The remaining time will be spent transcribing, analyzing, and reporting results of the project. f. RESEARCH TEAM 1) Research team and time commitment
Job Title / Responsibility Time Commitment PI (myself) 20 hours/week Co-PI(Faculty Advisor) 10 hours/week
2) Training team members in research ethics All members of the research team have completed CITI Training.
3) Training team members in research activities
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(a) Training Interviews are unsupervised and I will not need to train my faculty advisor. However, I have taken coursework in qualitative and quantitative methods as a required part of my graduate education. This needed practice will be helpful when developing interview guides, conducting research interviews, and data analysis.
(b) Verification Research team will verify that proper forms are being used by ensuring to download the final, approved copies from RAP and printing them out from the final approved version. All verified forms will be kept in the same filing cabinet location to make sure older or other copies of material are being used. At the start of any interview, the researcher will confirm they have the appropriate interview protocol, consent form, etc. My Faculty Advisor will be overseeing my protocols, ensuring the documents keep within IRB guidelines. Amendments to documents will be confirmed via my advisor prior to IRB submission for approval.
2. PARTICIPANTS: a. RECRUITMENT 1) Number of participants (a) Minimum and maximum number of participants The minimum of participants is 10 and the maximum is 15. (b) Rationale Interviewing at least 10 participants is necessary to give a minimum amount of data to reach saturation. With 10-15 interviews conducted, this allows for depth research to be conducted and afterwards date will be collected, reviewed, and analyzed. This number is appropriate based upon time constraints within the semester as well. 2) Inclusion and exclusion criteria To participate in this study, the individual has to identify as an African American woman who not only lives in the Greater Cincinnati area, but is also a member of The Links, Incorporated. The Links Inc. is an international, not- for-profit corporation for extraordinary women who are committed to enriching, sustaining and ensuring the culture and economic survival of African Americans. The members are also invited to recommend African American women who are not members of the organization but are executives willing to share their experiences of microaggressions in the workplace. I have selected this criterion because it is the only local organization that caters directly to women of color in corporate positions, being more convenient to find women who are in C-suite positions (CEO, CFO, COO, VP, Dean, etc).
3) Vulnerable participants Not applicable
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(a) Vulnerability Not applicable
(b) Rationale Not applicable
(c) Confirmation Confirmation will be completed by participants verbally confirming they are 18 years or older prior to starting the interview.
4) Risks and discomforts from participating (a) Type and level of risk or discomfort
Risk or Discomfort Level Emotional Discomfort minimal Potential violation of privacy minimal
(b) Safety monitoring plan To avoid a breach in privacy, waiving documentation of consent is necessary. All audio files collected from interviews will be stores on a password protected computer. Following the transcribing of interviews, all files of recording will be destroyed to further ensure participant’s privacy. (c) Reporting (1) Notification of PI If a participant experiences a risk or discomfort because of my research, hey will be instructed to contact the PI or Faculty Advisor by email, and if urgent by phone. (2) Notification of IRB I will notify IRB if a participant is discomfort by my study. I will first notify my faculty advisor about the situation via email. If the participant wishes, they will be cc’d as well. A second email will be sent to IRB detailing the situation, all within a 24-hour span on being notified of the discomfort. (3) Other notification If a participant experiences discomfort the PI will be immediately notified via email. (4) Available resources Not applicable
5) Direct benefits to the participant There are no direct benefits for the participants.
6) Recruitment activities
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(a) Recruitment materials List: Recruitment Script is attached to other documents on RAP Portal.
(b) Personnel I will be recruiting participants.
(c) Recruitment activities PI will send an email with a description to The Links Inc. describing the purpose of the study and contact information for those interested. A snowball sampling technique will be deployed to recruit further interviewees depending on scarcity in interest. To verify those recruited, participants will be asked to clarify their current or past job that associates with the C-suite and express their relationship with The Links Inc.
(d) Participant response Through all of the recruitment process, my university email will be provided to participants. Prospective participants will inquire my contact information from those in The Links Inc. and can contact my email directly or let the correspondent know. b. CONSENT PROCESS 1) Presenting information to potential participants Before interviews begin, participants will be presented with a copy of the consent document, the interviewer (myself) will verbally describe the consent presented on the consent document, identifying key components of the form. Participants will then receive an unsigned copy of the waived consent form for their own records. I will then tell participants my current position, being a scholar who explores diverse and inclusion spaces through identitiy, interpersonal and organization communication. They will be told that at any time they have a question or wish to skip a question, they have the right. Consent information will be explained individually in each one-on-one interview and consent will be obtained before beginning the actual interview process.
2) Answering questions from potential participants If participants have questions about the interview process, they are welcomed and encouraged to email me before or after interviews. If they have any questions during the interview, they are also welcomed to ask at any time. I will answer their questions promptly and delay starting the interview until any concerns of the participant is satisfied.
3) Indicating consent I will have each participant verbally confirm consent prior to the initiation of the interview.
4) Legally authorized representative (LAR) for minors or cognitively impaired
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participants Not applicable
5) Verification of LAR for cognitively impaired participants Not applicable
6) Avoiding coercion Recruitment of participants will be voluntary. I will inform participants that there are no direct benefits as a result of participation, and this will help minimize perception of coercion.
7) Recruitment incentives Not applicable
c. CONSENT DOCUMENTS (ICDs) List: Consent form is attached to other documents on RAP Portal.
3. RESEARCH-RELATED ACTIVITY: a. SECONDARY ANALYSIS of an EXISTING DATASET 1) Person or entity that holds the dataset Not applicable
2) General description of the data, including when and how the data were obtained Not applicable
3) List of the fields (or description of the kinds of information) that will be used from the dataset, with specific mention of any individually identifying data Not applicable
4) Explanation why individually identifying data are needed for your study, how confidentiality of individually identifiable data will be assured, and how soon identifiers will be purged from the dataset Not applicable
5) Explanation of how the dataset (or portion of the dataset) will be obtained from the current holder Not applicable
b. REVIEW OF RECORDS that were collected for NON-RESEARCH PURPOSES 1) Person or entity that holds the records Not applicable
2) General description of the kind of records, including when and how the records were obtained
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Not applicable
3) Specific description of the information (i.e., data fields) that will be used from the records, with specific mention of any individually identifying information Not applicable
4) Explanation why individually identifying information is needed for your study, and how soon identifiers will be purged from the research records Not applicable
5) Explanation of how the records (or excerpts from the records) will be obtained from the current holder Not applicable c. RESEARCH ACTIVITIES 1) Privacy of participation Participants will be given full range of choosing the private space for interviews. If they do not have a preferred space, a space will be recommended for conducted interviews.
2) Confidentiality of data • Information about the participant will be kept private by using a study ID number instead of the participant's name on the research forms. • Participant's name will not be included in the typed transcript. • The master list of participants names and study ID number will be kept in a separate location from the research and signed consent forms. • All research data will be kept on a password-protected computer. Only the faculty advisor and I will have access will have the password. • To protect participant’s identity and research data, all information will be kept in a locked cabinet in my faculty advisor’s campus office for 3 years. After that it will be destroyed by removing participants name from all the research data and deleting computerized records. • The data from this research study may be published; but you will not be identified by name.
3) Research-related activities (a) Participant cohorts Not applicable. Interviews are individual.
(b) Activities and duration Each individual will participate in an interview that will last at the maximum 1 hour and are allowed to end sooner. Qualitative data will be collected from their responses concerning their experiences in the workplace and their identity. The types of data include their career and passion, coping mechanism for discrimination and life influences. The interviews are the only phase of the project. No pre-test or post-test will happen. All
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interviews will be audio recorded with prior consent from the participants. Participants may opt out of the interview at any time with no penalty and will be removed from the data set. There are no non-research activities or materials required for this study.
(c) Data collection tools List: Interview guide is attached to other documents on RAP Portal.
(d) Payments to participants: reimbursement of expenses or payment for time and effort Not applicable.
4. DATA ANALYSIS: I plan to analyze the emergent themes using the constant comparison technique taking note of the women’s perceptions, and how microinsults and microinvalidations have affected them. In order to analyze the interviews, after a thorough reading of all of the interviews, relevant statements will be recorded by writing each response on separate index cards. I will search for commonalities among the responses and once several responses seem to correlate, they will be categorized. Later, I will select a phrase to title the group. Eventually, all of the responses will be placed into categories; some will be placed into more than one thematic group. I will separately record my theoretical ideas in separate from my date to refer to in concluding my findings. I will deploy member checking as a means of confirming interpretations of participant responses and will use constant comparative method due to its reflexive methodology. The primary cycle of coding will lead to broad grouping, which later will fracture into smaller groups. I will also present the sensitizing constructs that constitute a new paradigm that emerges from this grounded theory approach. This method was selected because it is the process of each interpretation is compared with findings that already exist that has emerged from data analysis, suggested by Lewis-Beck, Bryman & Liao (2004).
5. REFERENCES: List: • Bell, E. L. (2004). Myths, stereotype, and realities of Black women: A personal reflection. Journal of Applied Behavioral Science, 40, 146–159. https://doi.org/10.1177/0021886304263852 • Denton, T. C. (1990). Bonding and supportive relationships among black professional women: Rituals of restoration: Summary. Journal of Organizational Behavior (1986-1998), 11(6), 447. • Holder, A. M. B., Jackson, M. A., & Ponterotto, J. G. (2015). Racial microaggression experiences and coping strategies of black women in corporate leadership. Qualitative Psychology, 2(2), 164-180. doi:10.1037/qup0000024
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• Lewis-Beck, M. S., Bryman, A., & Futing Liao, T. (2004). The SAGE encyclopedia of social science research methods Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, Inc. doi: 10.4135/9781412950589. • Minikel-Lacocque, J. (2013). Racism, college, and the power of words: Racial microaggressions reconsidered. American Educational Research Journal, 50(3), 432-465. doi:10.3102/0002831212468048 • Nadal, K. L. (2014). The adverse impact of racial microaggressions on college students’ self-esteem. Journal of College Student Development, 55(5), 461-474. doi:10.1353/csd.2014.0051 • Pitcan, M., Park‐Taylor, J., & Hayslett, J. (2018). Black men and racial microaggressions at work. The Career Development Quarterly, 66(4), 300-314. doi:10.1002/cdq.12152. • Szymanski, D. M., & Lewis, J. A. (2016). Gendered racism, coping, identity centrality, and african american college women's psychological distress. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 40(2), 229. • Thompson, C. (2009) Black Women, Beauty, and Hair as a Matter of Being, Women's Studies, 38:8, 831-856, DOI: 10.1080/00497870903238463 • Utsey, S. O., Giesbrecht, N., Hook, J., & Stanard, P. M. (2008). Cultural, sociofamilial, and psychological resources that inhibit psychological distress in African Americans exposed to stressful life events and race-related stress. Journal of Counseling Psychology, 55, 49-62. • Smith, W. A., Hung, M., & Franklin, J. D. (2011). Racial battle fatigue and the MisEducation of black men: Racial microaggressions, societal problems, and environmental stress. The Journal of Negro Education, 80(1), 63-82. • Sue, D. W. (2010). Microaggressions in everyday life: Race, gender and sexual orientation. Hoboken: John Wiley & Sons. • Sue, D. W., Lin, A. I., Torino, G. C., Capodilupo, C. M., & Rivera, D. P. (2009). Racial microaggressions and difficult dialogues on race in the classroom. Cultural Diversity and Ethnic Minority Psychology, 15(2), 183-190. http://dx.doi.org.proxy.libraries.uc.edu/10.1037/a0014191 • Warner, J., & Corley, D. (2017). The Women's Leadership Gap. Retrieved October 2018, from https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/women/reports/2017/05/21/432758/wo mens-leadership-gap/
6. ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION: List: Additional Documents are attached to other documents on RAP Portal.
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APPENDIX B Participants Recruitment Script
Hello everyone,
My name is Rockia Harris and I am a second-year master’s student at The University of Cincinnati. I am currently developing my thesis and feel that women from your organization would be a great fit as a participant! My thesis/research study seeks to understand the impact microaggressions have on African American women in C-suite (CEO, COO, VP, Dean, etc.) executive positions. In utilizing Resiliency Theory and Microaggressions, the study takes a critical interpretative approach that answers the mechanism of coping and how it leads to success. The findings will provide insight into corporate spaces and the experiences of intersected identities.
The inclusion requirement is that you must have currently or in the past, worked in a C- suit position and identify as African American and woman. You must also be over 18 years of age. There will be no direct benefits or compensation of participating, however, the research aims to make a contribution to communication literature with practical applications in mind as well. Your stories and experiences matter.
As far as your participation, we would set up an interview, preferably face-to-face, but if geographical obstacles are at hand or schedules conflict, we could schedule an interview via video-chat (Facetime, Skype, or Zoom). You can select which day and time works best for your schedule upon agreeing to be a participant in the study. Interviews will be anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour.
I understand if you are not able to participate and ask if you could spread the word to your fellow executives who may not be a member of The Links Inc. and would possibly be interested, fitting the participant requirements.
For further information or confirmation of willingness to participate, I can be reached at [email protected].
Thank you for your time and consideration,
Rockia K. Harris
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APPENDIX C Semi Structured Interview Schedule
Research Question 1: How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with microinsults within the workplace? • Tell me about your upbringing. • What things installed in your life have guided your success? • Describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C- suite executive position. • Have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? How was it communicated to you? • Did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional? • How did you address the experience?
Research Question 2: How do African American women C-suite executives describe their experiences with microinvalidations within the workplace? • Did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings? • Have you experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation. • How did you navigate these communication encounters?
Research Question 3: How do African American women C-suite executives describe the role of resilience in helping them to cope with microaggressions? • Would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career? • What communication strategies have you used in developing resilience? • How do you define resiliency? • Is resilience necessary for African American woman C-suite executives? • What coping mechanism have you used to adapt to the workplace? • If you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be? • What advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
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APPENDIX D Adult Consent Form for Research University of Cincinnati Department: College of Arts & Sciences, Communication Principal Investigator: Rockia Harris Faculty Advisor: Ronald Jackson II
Title of Study: Getting Back Up Again: A critical-interpretive exploration of African American women C-suite executives coping with microaggressions in the workplace
Introduction: You are being asked to take part in a research study. Please read this paper carefully and ask questions about anything that you do not understand.
Who is doing this research study? The person in charge of this research study is Rockia Harris of the University of Cincinnati (UC) Department of Communication.
She is being guided in this research by Dr. Ronald Jackson ll.
What is the purpose of this research study? The purpose of this research study is to explore the impact microaggressions have on African American women in C-suite executive positions, with the specific focus on the unconscious manifestations (microinsults and microinvalidations) they experience in the workplace. With this study, this marginalized group is given a platform to voice their experiences with discrimination of different forms and explain what it takes to build resiliency.
Who will be in this research study? About 10 people will take part in this study. You may be in this study if • You are older than 18 years of age. • You are African American. • You are a woman. • You work as a C-suite executive; CEO, COO, VP, Dean, etc.
What will you be asked to do in this research study, and how long will it take? You will be asked to answer questions from a semi-structure questionnaire. It will take about 1 hour. The research interview will take place in McMicken Building on UC’s campus or via Facetime, Skype or Zoom.
Are there any risks to being in this research study? It is not expected that you will be exposed to any risk by being in this research study.
Are there any benefits from being in this research study? You will probably not get any benefit because of being in this study. But, being in this study may help communication literature understand the effects of discrimination and
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What will you get because of being in this research study? You will not be paid (or given anything) to take part in this study.
Do you have choices about taking part in this research study? If you do not want to take part in this research study, you may simply not participate.
How will your research information be kept confidential? Information about you will be kept private by: • using a study ID number instead of the participant's name on the research forms • keeping the master list of names and study ID numbers in a separate location from the research forms • not including the participant's name on the typed transcript • erasing audiotapes as soon as they are transcribed • keeping research data on a password-protected computer
Your information will be kept in a locked cabinet in my faculty advisor’s campus office for 3 years. After that records will be destroyed in a confidential manner, by removing participant's name from all research data and deleting computerized records.
The data from this research study may be published; but you will not be identified by name.
Agents of the University of Cincinnati may inspect study records for audit or quality assurance purposes.
The researcher cannot promise that information sent by the internet or email will be private.
What are your legal rights in this research study? Nothing in this consent form waives any legal rights you may have. This consent form also does not release the investigator, the institution, or its agents from liability for negligence.
What if you have questions about this research study? If you have any questions or concerns about this research study, you should contact Rockia Harris at [email protected]
Or, you may contact Ronald Jackson II at [email protected].
The UC Institutional Review Board reviews all research projects that involve human participants to be sure the rights and welfare of participants are protected.
If you have questions about your rights as a participant, complaints and/or suggestions about the study, you may contact the UC IRB at (513) 558-5259. Or, you may call the
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UC Research Compliance Hotline at (800) 889-1547, or write to the IRB, 300 University Hall, ML 0567, 51 Goodman Drive, Cincinnati, OH 45221-0567, or email the IRB office at [email protected].
Do you HAVE to take part in this research study? No one has to be in this research study. Refusing to take part will NOT cause any penalty or loss of benefits that you would otherwise have.
You may start and then change your mind and stop at any time. To stop being in the study, you should tell Rockia Harris at [email protected]
Agreement: I have read this information and have received answers to any questions I asked. I give my consent to participate in this research study. I will receive a copy of this signed and dated consent form to keep.
Participant Name (please print) ______
Participant Signature ______Date ______
Signature of Person Obtaining Consent ______Date ______
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APPENDIX E Transcribed Interviews 00:01 Alright. So, thank you for volunteering to do this interview.
00:06 No problem. I’m honored to be here.
00:10 So, before we get started, I wanted to reiterate that all information provided will be kept confidential. You will be given a fake name for the purpose of this study and I will not release specifics of where you work. I mainly will revel your job title and may use exact quotes from the interview within my thesis and defense. Whenever that happens.
00:35 Okay that’s fine.
00:39 And I’m not sure if this will happen but I wanted to also provide a disclaimer that I am asking you to relive moments in your life that may be very triggering so at any time, if you want to stop or pause the interview, even skip a question, please let me know.
00:58 That’s so thoughtful of you. Thank you, sweetheart. I think I’ll be okay though.
01:06 Okay, so let’s get started. Could you first state your name and your job title?
01:15 Yes of course. My name is ______and I am the Chief Learning Officer of a Therapy Staffing Company.
01:19 And how did you get to this current position?
01:23 Well a lot of hard work of course but specifically, I received my bachelor’s in psychology and took a gap year to work. Once I started to realize I needed more knowledge, I went back for my MBA and took on different leadership positions between 3 companies which have led me here. Along my journey, I made sure to pick up a certificate or two and gained some of the most amazing mentors to help guide me because like most young adults in their 20’s, I was lost. I knew that if I worked a nine to five, it needed to be something I was passionate about. Mental health has always been a factor for me, from my personal battles to my loved ones so I knew what field spoke to my interest, but I wasn’t sure how I was going to contribute. I sat in a seminar about executive positions and being a leader, and form there I was driven. It’s like God lit my flame in one instance and I never turned back.
02:26 That’s amazing. I’ve always been unsure about a gap year because of the mixed thoughts pushed on society.
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02:34 I was too, and I do see the negative connotation all the time. I was worried that I wouldn’t return to school, but it honestly helped me acknowledge where I needed to grow if I wanted success.
02:49 Oh, and I would like to ask how you found the seminar?
02:54 Well it was attached to a newsletter sent out by the Alumni Association, which I never payed attention to but for some reason that day, I read it for once and seen the seminar at the top of the email. It was free and was scheduled for the day I had off from my mall job and I took advantage of the opportunity.
03:43 Completely understandable and amazing to hear. So first, starting before you even entered college, could you tell me a little bit about your upbringing. How was your childhood?
04:00 Well, my upbringing was one that I still cherish till this day. I was raised in a two parent house hold where my parents showered me with nothing but love and care. We did have our ups and downs which pushed me to be in the place and success that I am in today. I was raised with two siblings and spent majority of my time in the church. My brother was adopted, and I was the oldest until he entered the house, so we didn’t get along until later in life and even now, I see where we are still so different. My family never truly struggles but we went through difficult moments that challenged our spirits. Overall, I would say my upbringing was one that was amazing, especially as a preacher’s kid.
05:07 I have a few friends that are PK’s and I always here that they feel sheltered. Do you believe that’s true?
05:19 Umm, at times I felt that way, but this was before I understood religion and the meaning of sin. I was very rebellious growing up, but I believe it was needed for me to truly trust in God.
05:24 Okay. Next question. What things do you think were installed in your life, that have guided your success?
05:37 This may come as no surprise but God. God has definitely been my biggest influence. I was raised in the church and don’t always agree with the people of the church. However, I do have my own personal relationship with God in which I know has helped me get to this point. My parents also installed a lot of independence as I was growing up. I would say my parents installed a lot of the boss mentality that you see today too. Less talking, more doing as I always say. I honestly could go on and on, but I will say last that a village is also so important. When you look at my success I didn’t get here alone. It took the support and love of my friends and family and unfortunately some 122
of those people are no longer in my life, but they impacted me when they were.
06:18 When you say no longer in your life, are you referring to those who passed or those who are like, no longer your friend?
06:31 Both. My grandparents passed away almost nine years ago and there were individuals who I thought would be my friend forever who deep down envied my success.
06:40 I understand. Thank you for explaining that. So now, describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position.
06:49 Hmm…. it’s different. There are many days I feel kind of out of place and there are days where I am perfectly fine. There are days that I feel like the African American woman in an executive position and there are days where I feel…. not equal …but not different, if that makes sense. I make sure to make my presence known wherever I go and often times feel like I have to be ahead of the game. I prepare a lot more for meetings and other events than my counterparts I’m sure. I do feel respected in my workplace as compared to some of my other colleagues’ stories I’ve heard.
07:05 And did you ever dream about this position or making it to the C-suite in general?
07:12 Not at all. I wasn’t sure what exactly it was until my first real job after graduating with my MBA. I didn’t know executives growing up. There weren’t Black people in these positions, so it became a new view for me.
07:30 So through this journey of becoming an executive, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? If so, how was it communicated to you?
07:45 Honestly…. Not really. Outside of the typical comments of those that are uneducated about certain things, including my hair, there were no prominent incidents. Comments concerning my hair weren’t communicated in a complete negative way, but more so curiosity mixed with stupidity. Questions like, “Well how did you do that? Why is it kinky? Why not straighten it?” and so on. I’ve realized that some people are just truly uneducated about Black women and sometimes Black people as a whole. This is why some people ask, “can I touch your hair?” I actually love educating though. I try to turn what some may say is a negative into a positive. But again, I’ve never experience outright discrimination unless I was blind to it.
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08:31 So one thing I feel is an often debate within the Black community is having to teach the uneducated about our culture and history. What comment would you like to add to the discussion?
08:53 I always say this. If we aren’t teaching them who will? Yes, they should want to be more knowledgeable, but we can’t make people. If someone is asking, with the right intentions, I will educate them and refrain from feeling disrespected.
09:22 Okay great. This transitions into my next questions. Did you ever feel as if the discrimination you’ve experienced was intentional?
09:37 No but I know they can be.
09:40 Okay. So how did you address the experience?
09:44 I educated them on the question being asked. Typically, someone ask how I got my hair the way it is which may seem like a dumb question, but majority of my colleagues grew up in a small country town where the only African Americans they may have seen is on TV. They really don’t know. Not excusing these questions but showing that they just truly don’t get it. I think it also helps that my HR is an African American woman as well. She takes her job serious. People are also very picky with how they word things in my environment because they know I am not afraid to make comments.
10:27 So, do you think it’s because they know you’re not afraid to make comments or they fear you and your Blackness or you and your Womanhood or your and your authority?
10:40 Great question. I believe it’s all of it. All three may be a threat but I have stood my ground enough to show that regardless of who I am and what I look like, my opinion with be heard.
10:43 Alright. So next, again reflecting on your experiences with discrimination, did you ever feel like your thoughts, experiences and feelings were dismissed?
10:55 I honestly used to feel that way when I first started, and the questions started coming mainly about my hair again. And oh, this one time someone asked me if I listened to a certain rapper and my first thought was what makes you think I listen to rap in general? I could be a country-rock fan. I just truly hate assumptions, but I know they are a part of our daily interactions.
11:19 But do you think they were asking you because you’re Black or because you were the first person they ran into? Just wondering.
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11:27 Trust me. It’s because I’m Black. I’ve never showed that we were friends or even close enough to talk about my family, so to ask me about my personal interest is forced.
11:41 Okay, thank you for that. So now, can you answer if you have you experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation. It can be a different form of discrimination as well.
11:57 I don’t think so. Like I said before people are very picky with their words around me, unless they haven’t let their guard down around me. Now that’s a different story.
12:09 So when discrimination happens, how do you navigate these communication encounters?
12:16 Well as you can see—
12:22 Hello? The screen went out and all I could hear was “well as you can see”.
12:38 Can you hear me now? Can you see me?
12:45 Yes, I can.
12:50 Okay. So, like I was saying, I am a very forward person. This may be another reason why I think that I haven’t experienced discrimination outright to my knowledge. Regardless, I’m probably the angry black woman in their eyes. Speaking of which, I do think that my White counterparts who report to me try to figure that out beforehand. Like, they observe all the Black women to see who is going to let them ask questions and be their cool Black friend or who to avoid. I’m not angry though. I am far from an angry person unlike executives I know who do not tolerate ignorance.
13:38 So, follow up question. Why do you believe you’re probably the angry black woman in their eyes?
13:46 Because assumptions are everywhere. Again, in our daily interactions. If I raise my voice, I’m instantly angry. If I request someone to double check another employees work, it’s taken to heart. There is always an explanation tied to my actions unfortunately.
14:06 Interesting point. This kind of leads to my following question of, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
14:17 Oh Yes. Definitely. Throughout my whole life actually. I had no choice.
14:24 What do you mean no choice? Please explain if you can. 125
14:32 Well I’m Black. I’m a woman. Religion has been over emphasized in everything I’ve done. Without resiliency, how do you or anyone else even become successful?
14:49 Quick question. It’s not written down but I’m curious to know which one of your identities come first. You gender, your race or would you consider your spiritual wellness as your identity?
11:44 You know, I’ve never been asked that. Hmm… I think it’s impossible to choose. Well, for me it is. I am all three at once and I think sometimes I wear an identitiy more in depth at times, but all three matter equally.
12:15 Thank you for that. I was just curious to see what you would say. So hmm, next question is what communication strategies have you used in developing the resilience you speak of?
12:32 Being honest and open. Those two things alone have helped me cope with a lot in life.
12:40 So honest and open with yourself to build the resiliency or honest and open with others?
12:48 Hmmm. Well it should start with yourself. Get yourself balanced before preparing for others. When you know yourself, inside and out, no sense of discrimination will break you.
13:04 Okay. So how do you define resiliency? Please base it off your based off experiences and maybe what’ve you looked up before.
13:16 I always say the ability to bounce back and being stronger than ever. Sometimes the word is paired with resistance, and I feel that you must also include power. Self-worth. Leadership and so on.
13:30 And could you name a time in your life where you showed the most resilience behavior?
13:47 Whew. I need time to think about that.
13:54 That’s fine. Take your time.
14:12 Umm. Well, when my first child was born, I had to do everything on my own because his father wasn’t around. This is very personal so I refer this not to be mentioned as a specific quote if you could.
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14:29 Of course. Whatever you wish and I will make sure it does or doesn’t happens.
14:36 Thank you. Well there were times I regretted proceeding with the pregnancy. There were times I thought about foster care and adoption agencies and when I was at my lowest you know what I did?
14:52 Cry?
14:55 Yep and pray. Prayed harder than ever that God will help me get my career together and help me become a better mother than I was portraying to my son. He didn’t ask to be here so how dare I not give him the proper childhood experiences he deserves? Eventually, God spoke to me. My support system became bigger and I was able to give my children a life better than mine. So, it was a rocky beginning, but I pushed through to the finish line.
15:31 Thank you for that. I truly appreciate you sharing your story with me. It means a lot.
15:42 Of course. You almost got me. A tear was coming but I had to stop that.
15:49 No, be as vulnerable as you like. I won’t judge at all.
15:56 It’s fine. So, what is your next question?
16:01 Well it is, do you believe resiliency is necessary for African American woman C-suite executives?
16:09 Yes. You have to be strong. We have no choice. Just like I said earlier, how do you even become successful without resiliency? And as a Black woman, we live a different narrative than most. This industry isn’t for the weak. Although I haven’t experienced as much discrimination as I know some have, I’ve already mentally prepared myself for the possible situations I could be involved in.
16:37 How have you prepared yourself?
16:42 The same we prepare our Black children when entering this chaotic world. Conversations being held. The talk is becoming a more familiar thing in the black community because of the increase of police brutality so with that, I make sure to remind my children that we may fall but we always get back up. We are warriors and always have been and nobody will stop that. You have to prepare yourself every day when you wake up. The word we live in is sick. We have Trump who sees the beauty in separating immigrants as if they don’t belong here even though this country was built on the back of Native Americans and Slaves. We have people bombing churches. We have mass 127
shooting almost at least twice a year. We have black trans folks being murdered and no one cares. So much wrong happening. So much justice wanted but not happening. I don’t want my son to be the next Trayvon Martin. I don’t want my daughters to be the next Sandra Bland or Rekia Boyd. It’s ridiculous in all honesty and regardless of our identitiy, we all chose to make something out of ourselves every day. That’s the idea of resilience.
17:57 Wow. So, to go off my script a little, do you feel like it’s harder to raise children now verses when you were younger?
18:06 Oh, most definitely. I grew up in a time period where it was safe to walk home and get on the city bus at night. No one truly bothered you. Sometimes I would be alone and sometimes I had a buddy, but my parents weren’t worried about my safety. I wasn’t either. Now, you can’t blink and be Black. All these shootings have been mostly recorded and the shooters have gotten off free. What is that? We have a system that says your guilty until proven innocent and evidence is needed but cameras have lost their value in the court system. We are in a position of not knowing what to do honestly. We can protest all day, in person and social media, but where is the change happening?
18:58 Very Understandable. So, what are some coping mechanism you’ve used to adapt to the workplace in particular?
19:07 Some days I just stayed to myself with a lot, a lot, a lot of positive affirmations, that are definitely needed to get by. I turn to my scriptures you know. Hopefully I’m not talking too much about God but man, he’s so powerful. My favorite is Hebrews 4:12. “For the word of God I living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart”. My second favorite is Jeremiah 29:11. “For I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future”. Those type of things are needed, especially on days I don’t want to be at work. A white space full of tedious task. I have a few Bible’s I color coordinate and the Bible app is helpful for devotionals. You can also take notes in it which has been helpful for my children when they use the app.
21:03 I have the app and love it. My best friend and I hold each other accountable by creating devotionals based on the current challenges we are facing.
21:18 That’s great that you two can do that. Just make sure you keep up with it, okay?
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21:24 Yes of course. So, we are almost done. Umm next, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
21:41 Wow. I’m not really sure. Can you give me a second to think?
21:46 Of course. Take your time. If you can’t think of anything, we can skip it.
21:54 Aw, I don’t want to skip one. I know you’ll need this.
22:01 It’s okay. I will use whatever you share with me. In all honesty, I’m just appreciative you were able to spare time for me.
22:12 Aw honey, no worries. But Hmm. So…hmm. how about Black woman executives are like the needle in the haystack. We’re rare. Hard to find. We sometimes blend but once you feel the difference in our prick, we stand out. Black Girl Magic is so true, and we are one of a kind. I try to remember that when talking to now my mentees.
22:54 And how does it feel to once have all these mentors to turn to and now you’re the mentor other Black women look up to?
23:05 Surreal is the best word to describe the feeling. Being in this position carries a lot of responsibility so agreeing to guide these women in also a part of my job. Not required but I wouldn’t have it any other way because we need more people of color at the top. We need the creative thoughts and unapologetic charisma. I truly believe that mentoring relationships is the best strategy for women of color to move forward in their career. If we don’t take each other under our wings, some of us will never make it off the ground. White men have had their glory stage long enough. It should be our turn. There’s no reason Ursala Burns was the last executive of a Fortune 500 back in 2016 I believe. We need to populate our greatness now before it’s too late. So, at the end of the day I don’t mind being a mentor. I know I’m needed. I’m doing exactly what God installed in me when he developed my plan. This is the legacy I will leave before my time comes.
24:21 And what do you believe is the key to be a proper mentor and mentee?
24:27 I think active listening skills is needed on both parts. I have to listen to their point of view while they listen to the directions I give. They can choose a different path, but I also hope that my time isn’t wasted and luckily, that hasn’t been the case thus far. I think a big part is also asking questions. I like to pick their brains. Asking questions with a question that may lead to another question but eventually we will have an answer. We need clarity
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when we conduct business though, so I am trying to get everyone’s mindset to that point. That point where they are focused on their vision.
25:14 Okay. So, we are almost done but I wanted to know how do you describe microaggressions? If you don’t know or prefer to give an example, that works perfectly as well.
25:29 Well how I understand microaggressions are rude or disrespectful comments about one’s race or gender. Like when people are surprised natural kinky 4c hair can be long, I take that as a microaggression. Another example is when someone assumes, I’m not the CLO because I don’t “look” like I am. I’m like what does a CLO look like then fool. No one ever has a smart response for that though. Overall, microaggressions are just offensive comments typically made by white people but that doesn’t mean people of color get a pass. They are sexist and prejudice as well.
26:14 Hmm. Could you give an example of a microaggression that could be possibly directed to a person of color and said by another person of color?
26:25 One word, Colorism. Dark skin beauty is held on a high platform sometimes as being exotic but if you’re light skin with Hazel eyes, you may seem more unique to others. We are our worst enemy at times because of the triggering system of privilege when it comes to skin color. Our society, specifically media, doesn’t make the situation better which the appropriating cultures and showcasing the beauty they feel is acceptable.
27:09 Okay great. And last, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
27:20 To my fellow boss, don’t be afraid to speak up for yourself and say how you feel. Do your job. Call people out for who they truly are while also educating those that have questions. Through it all, please stay true to yourself. I don’t change my voice. I don’t try to act white, as others would say. I’m not changing to fit the standards of what a typical executive look like so make sure you don’t either. They need to accept us, or we can go. If we go, they will know our work ethic and leadership skills are unmatched the moment we leave.
28:11 And is there anything else you would like to add or even ask me?
28:18 Yes, thank you. So, what made you choose this as your thesis project?
28:25 Well, I feel like it honestly chose me. In the beginning, I was headed in a different route but with some of the same methods. I was confused why people didn’t think before they spoke to people of color, mainly Black folks, 130
and I was over the passive aggressive people within my master’s program. There were many times my peers and even some professors made remarks that made me feel very little or undermined my ability and I needed answers because when I wanted to address the remarks, multiple people played very stupid. So annoying and time consuming, and it was honestly tiring and affected my mental health. They don’t realize how triggering words can be and that nonverbals are easily seen as well. So, with that being said, I was wondering where microaggressions were prevalent and it became interesting to think about the idea of making it to the top but still dealing with stuff most people think isn’t a concern anymore, just because you’re labeled the boss. So, this led to conversations and much research and here I am focusing on the experiences of C-suite executives. I also want to be a Vice President at a university one day, focusing on diversity & inclusion.
30:08 Well young lady, I believe it is awesome what you’re doing. People do believe our struggles are over and they are far from that. They just began and now everyone is watching you. But again, I wouldn’t have it any other way. As long as I have a voice, my duties and salary, I can be myself even at the top.
30:28 Wow. Well said. Thank you for your time.
30:33 No, it was my pleasure.
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00:01 Okay. So first before we get started, I wanted to go over a few things and of course thank you for volunteering to do this interview. I really appreciate your time.
00:09 Oh it’s no problem at all. Thank you for thinking of The Links. A lot of people don’t know of our existence, so I truly feel honored to represent them along with others.
00:21 Yes, I was super intrigued once I heard of the organization through my peers in a Black graduate group me. I think it’s honestly amazing that such an organization exist.
00:32 Yes. I’ve been a member for about 6 years now and these women have truly become my sisters and most of all, my confidants.
00:41 Okay. So, before we get started, I wanted to basically go over information I have already previously told you but wanted to reiterate for this recording. To keep your voice confidential, you will be given a fake name on all paper work. For this study in particular, there will be no information also revealed about where exactly you work. This allows you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current job. I will be asking for your title at work and there is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from this interview to back up any of the assumptions I make but again, no one will know it’s you.
01:33 Okay great. That’s fine with me.
00:37 Okay good. Next, I want to provide a disclaimer. I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings so at any time, if you want to stop the interview, need a break from the questions or want me to skip a question, for whatever reason, please let me know and I’ll do just that.
02:06 Gotcha. I will definitely let you know.
02:09 Alright so if you don’t have any questions right now, let’s just start with you providing your name and the title of your current executive position.
02:20 Sure. My name is ______and I’m the Chief Clinical Information Officer of a local Health Clinic. It’s a small facility, but I love it.
02:30 Have you always been interested in the health field or was it influenced by a specific experience?
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02:39 I’m going to say it was more influenced by an experience. Well first, I grew up very sickly. My asthma was very bad and often sent me to the hospital every week. I eventually grew to control it but even throughout my college career, I found myself having issues with my digestive system and I think that’s when I had my epiphany that I wanted to help people in the medical field. I knew I didn’t want to be a surgeon and that I wanted to be in an intimate space, so I entered the nursing program and spent my experiences in clinics.
03:18 Wow. It’s so crazy how life turns out. Sends you signs in a sense.
03:25 Oh yes. I believe it was my plan before I knew it was my plan so now, I’m here.
03:30 Great. So, this leads into you just telling me about your upbringing.
03:36 Well, I’m from Chattanooga, Tennessee and I guess you can say I grew up middle class. I went to a private school all my life, but my family wasn’t rich. We were very well off though. I also was raised as a preacher’s kid which was challenging.
03:52 Why challenging?
03:55 Well, being a PK, a preacher’s kid comes with many responsibilities and it’s a space of judgmental people when you don’t live up to certain circumstances. It was so much pressure to be in a sense perfect, that once I got to undergrad, I felt the need to finally have the freedom I’m allowed. I believe that’s why I’ve made some of the choices I have, because I wasn’t used to freedom? Not saying I went crazy, but I am definitely not the person I use to be. I also believe that I started to lose my faith and wasn’t prepared for it. Being raise by a pastor and first lady, life lessons always have God included as the solution, but I started to be placed in situations where I couldn’t just turn to God. I needed to turn to medicine. I needed to turn to therapy. I needed to turn to honestly, a drink but these were all things frowned upon with my church family. So, I had to find a happy medium of being independent and loving God.
05:01 That makes sense. And during this time period of growth or even specifically in your childhood, what things installed in your life guided your current success?
05:11 I think the thought that nothing is given, it’s earned. This is something that my parents stressed to my brother and I when growing up. This specific idea is what made me push myself to get to where I am at today. I do recognize my privilege though. Having a two-parent home is a privilege. Being considered middle class is a privilege too but these are again earned through hard work and dedication is something I try to install in my children. I have two boys 133
and 1 girl, and I push them to remember life is not handed to you on a silver platter in most cases. You have to work for it. I remind them of the struggles my parents faced, their dads’ parents and even the current struggles with my husband, their father. Thankfully our incomes allow us to live comfortably but I can’t stress this enough that not every family has that luxury.
06:00 So, is there anything in particular that you and your husband do to remind your children how blessed they are?
06:07 Hmm, outside of calling them out when they are acting spoiled? I think we try to push community service every few months especially around the holidays. We also occasionally may watch documentaries or films like Roots or 12 Years a Slave to not only remind them of how much they don’t have to endure but stirring conversations in general. Knowledge is powerful.
06:33 Are you ever worried that the films don’t depict enough of the truth? Do you ever do educational trips with your family?
06:44 Yes, sometimes but that’s why we choose films we’ve been able to dissect together alone before presenting it to our children. We’ve done some educational trips that were mixed with a simple vacation. Being in Cincinnati we have the opportunity to visit the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center and we’re not that far from Louisville to visit the Muhammad Ali Center. Another trip we’ve taken is to DC for the National Museum of African American History or something like that.
07:17 Yep, that’s the name. I think its History and Culture, but I know what you’re referring to in DC. I’ve been once and it was a moment of fullness and healing for me. I’m also from Louisville so the Ali Center is my top 5. So much history behind a man full of resilience
07:39 Oh yes, I definitely agree. He did more than box and society fails to realize that.
07:46 Agreed, but to get back on task let’s head to the next question I’ve prepared. So, could you now describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position?
08:01 Umm, I would say every day is a challenge. I have to mentally prepare for whatever the day may bring. I already know and feel like I’m at a disadvantage just by being a woman and African American, so when entering the workplace, I’m basically putting on my armor to get through the each. I know I hold so much power as well so yes, I am the boss but when my employees fail, I have to reflect on what I could have done better to avoid this. I have to hold their superiors accountable when they fail. I have to walk in and look like everything is fine as well. I leave my anxiety at the door and 134
my family drama in the car but even in the moments of being Ms.______, the CCO, I have to remember my duties as a wife and as a mother no matter what. My children are multi-talented so they are in every sport and even band and I refuse to not support their passions because I never know what influence it will have on their future.
09:14 And how do you stay organize if you don’t mind me asking?
09:19 Well my assistant is so amazing so life would be insane without her. I also have multiple calendars, reminders, sticky notes and even two phones.
09:27 Oh, so which number did I get for this interview?
09:32 My personal since this felt more genuine.
09:36 Wow I feel special. Okay, so with that being said, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? And how was it communicated to you?
09:46 There have been a couple of comments here and there that have been made. For instance, in my beginning board meeting, visitors from other locations would say undermining remarks as if the size of our clinic represented our success. There was also a moment someone who was supposed to be my point of contact redirected me to another authority because they felt I wasn’t listening to them and would be difficult to work with because of my attitude. Remind you, I have not said more than 5 words to this individual. I later found out that the person had made this same complaint about 3 other black women who worked under him. Not directly under him but he had superiority over them. Some people have even given me a side eye and a head turn when I changed my hair and I guess it seemed unusual to them? No comment has ever been made but you can see the confusion and even once the disgust on individuals face. Some have even tried to touch and of course I did not let that happen, just explained that it was rude and not okay. At times, maybe its curiosity but I just believe there’s always a different approach. Things are also said both directly and indirectly. Most of the time indirectly. A lot of passive aggressiveness is typically present in the corporate space so it’s something you kind of get use to unfortunately but that also has its limits because I am one person who wouldn’t tolerate disrespect. It’s never been anything that I couldn’t handle though. I won’t let anyone see me shaking at the end of the day.
11:21 And is there any specific event you would like to refer to?
11:25 I can try. Umm…. I got a story. So, it’s my first day and one of the physicians wasn’t sure what the new CCIO looked like and when I entered the health clinic, he assumed I was beneath him. I’m not even sure what he thought because I was 135
so stunned by his treatment towards me. I’m very laid back so now I wasn’t in a suit, but it was still business casual. It must have been my fro? Maybe it wasn’t professional enough for him because he didn’t care to great me at all. He acted too busy to withhold a conversation. He was then so embarrassed after the individual he reported to, identified me by my title. He introduced us and I simply smiled. The physician apologized in the moment and I believe later that day and I said oh, no worries.
12:12 Why just no worries?
12:15 Because everything doesn’t need to be handled the same way. I took a mental note and went on to more important factors.
12:23 Interesting. And do you believe or feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
12:30 Hmmm, I would say it’s both. Intentional and unintentional. As a Black woman, I think that some of it was definitely intentional and was done by other people to cover up their own insecurities. My grandmother always told me to not trust the white man. This may be because the time period she grew up in but since my younger days, a white man has always given me red flags. From the evil white man at the market who always assumed I was stealing to my first interview where I didn’t receive a job because the other applicant knew more people in the room and patted me on the head saying, “maybe next time cupcake”. Now that was a moment, I could have showed him what this cupcake was made of, but I just left and debriefed at home. Debrief meaning scream, drink my wine and talk to myself while also calling my best friends. After my min break down, I called my mother, talked to God and in a few weeks, I was blessed with multiple interviews. This goes to say that also, people can be very ignorant and naive which brings in that unintentional aspect. One time, I wore a dashiki in February for Black History Month and so many of my white counterparts were confused. I instantly received disbelief in statements such as “I didn’t know you were African?” to “wait, where are you from?” And behold, I never wore it again because of how annoyed it made me. Being proud in your heritage and culture does not need to always be questioned.
14:23 So, you avoided it happening again, by just not wearing it anymore? Do you feel like they won in a sense?
14:31 I don’t look at it as winning. I think that’s the difference. I look at it as how much am I willing to take on in this space. I did address it in a non-working environment at one of our social events outside the office. Those with a heart apologized and others just stated they didn’t know or acted as if the group conversation wasn’t going on. I’ve moved on though.
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14:54 Interesting and on other occasions other incidents, how did you address the experience?
15:00 Well simply having the conversation needed at the moment. Some things can be swept under the rug and moved on from but others, they need to be addressed so a cycle of disrespect isn’t happening. As a Black woman, you must stand up for yourself. Also, a key thing I feel like individuals don’t realize now and days is that confrontation doesn’t have to always be looked at as a bad thing. It’s actually really healthy for interactions but it’s all about how you handle it from the things you say to the way you say it. I know this may sound cliché, but I am a very direct person and will address an issue head on if needed. For most of my incidents, it’s been an issue with a White man and his acceptance of my authority and the White woman’s ignorance of my character. The men are always shocked that I’m the CCO, acquiring more information about how I got to my current position, but sometimes the intent is not clear. I’ve been asked if I’m ready to work in the “boys club” or if I was “ready to run with the big dogs”, resulting in a HR report. Other incidents where actually form other executives, even before the CCIO positions, who would edit my plans for emerging technology that could be used in the clinic and when I say edit, they would get a hold of my pitch and completely change ideas. Completely overstepping boundaries but in most cases, I just make sure to address what made me feel uncomfortable. They’ve all ended in apologies and hopefully an understanding on their behalf of my point of view and they pretty much stayed away from me as much as possible. They didn’t make this obvious, but I noticed their actions definitely changed.
16:22 Why do you think they stayed away from you?
16:27 What’s that one song that had come out? By that Chance Rapper? I know I know it, but I can’t remember how it goes.
16:38 Chance the Rapper? Which song? Can you sing a little bit of it?
16:44 It was something about problems? No problems?
16:50 Oh. No problems. It goes like “You don’t want no problems, want no problems with me”.
16:59 Yes! That’s exactly what it is. They know I’m in charge, but they also get the feeling that I am a strong-minded Black woman meaning it comes with stereotypical tropes that are true to an extent.
17:10 Hmm, such as?
17:14 Just the idea of being mad or angry. I’m not like that all the time but I can be if you get me to that point. I’m also very nurturing like most Black woman. Our 137
attitude is something else typically brought up, but I believe its embedded in the melanin because the mass majority of us can be sassy. I see the attitude creeping out of my daughter and I have to reflect before we have a coming to Jesus moment.
17:39 And for the purpose of this interview, could you explain a coming to Jesus moment?
17:43 Oh sure. It’s just a moment where I allow her to really think about what she did or what she said before I need to pop her in the mouth. Spankings will always be a thing in our family but because she is sixteen, I can’t just throw her across my knee but there are alternatives to that.
18:01 Oh, gotcha. So, next question. Have you ever felt like the discrimination you’ve experienced dismissed your thoughts, experiences and/or feelings?
18:14 I think it brought up the thoughts of not belonging or not being able to fulfill my job position. A lot of self-doubt in general. Those experiences made me feel less than even though I know I am more than. I had to snap out of it and get rid of those thoughts pretty quickly, but I do believe they were damaging for my mental state of mind and even my confidence as a Black woman in this field. No one has ever upright dismissed me so I’m unaware of that feeling. I have felt like my voice and experience didn’t matter. The men who often weren’t apologetic, I took it as a sign that they didn’t care about how I felt which may be true, but it still causes an internal discomfort especially as a mom, I always remind my children to let their opinions be heard. Before being in this sweet suit as they say, things weren’t too sweet. I had to fight for my ideas to sound amazing. I had to do twice as much to ensure my ideas were visualized in a creative matter as I planned. I’m very hands on so I would invest my money that I barely had into making sure presentations were top notch, print outs in color, and so on. No one told me to do so and that’s exactly why I did it. I would see no one going over and beyond to make a good impression so I felt like hey, this may be my calling. But back to what I was saying, I have felt a few of those ways at times but I had to quickly snap out of it.
19:48 And why is that? Why did you have to quickly snap out of it?
19:53 As a Black woman, we don’t have time to sit around be sad and beat ourselves down more than society has already done. If I sit in misery, by the time I find myself they are looking for the next Black face to replace me or a white face appropriating Black culture because you know Black is the new Black today. I’ve seen what depression can do. I’ve seen what anxiety and PTSD can do. It’s a terrible sight and feeling and has no place here in my home and heart. However, I won’t say I don’t have my moments. I have very dark days. These days I give up on society and can be triggered from what’s 138
going on the world to what’s going on in my intermediate family. Like the Charleston shooting, the nine Black people murdered in the church caused me to be in a very dark space that I took off three days. If you know me, I never take off, but my heart needed it. Spiritually I was broken and didn’t understand how so much hatred could exist in a world that is supposed to be moving forward, not moving back in time. Another example is when Trump entered office. I took off one day after the election. I cried in disbelief that a celebrity runs our country. How can someone who is outright prejudice towards the people in his country, now go down in history? Its mind boggling. Then there are days my marriage tries my patience. My parents divorced while I was in college and I know that took a toll on me. I didn’t see it then but soon after, it messed with my head. It was also a lesson for me to make sure the person I want to spend my life with, is on the same page. Divorce is too much and too expensive so I’m in the midst of trying to break a generational curse but in general, I just feel like life is different now. We are seeing things that are just not what we’re used to seeing you know? I’ve never lived knowing so many children were being bullied at the ages of 5 and such and committing suicide. These kids should be aspiring to be doctors and lawyers, all the stereotypical occupations we use to say but instead, they are hanging themselves, overdosing and worst. My heart aches for all of us because evil can knock on our door at any time.
22:23 If you don’t mind me asking Mrs.______, what have you been diagnosed with?
22:30 No you’re fine. I’m a very transparent person. I have extreme anxiety that leads to depressive moments. I go to therapy every week.
22:42 Okay that’s amazing. That was actually my next question is if you went to therapy.
22:47 Yes ma’am. It was a long time coming but thankfully my husband talked me into it.
22:56 That’s beautiful. How long have you two been married?
23:02 Whew. Feels like forever but we dated on and off in college and I believe in two months it’ll be 8 years. We old but the love feels new every day.
23:14 I love it. I’m just waiting for my husband to run into me like surprise, I’ve been waiting on you.
23:22 Honestly sweetheart, you may have met him, but God just decided you two weren’t ready for each other yet. Be patient and allow yourself to grow and be open. You don’t want to rush it at all. You’re so young with so much of life to live, so live it and you’ll run into him on your way to happiness. 139
23:43 Thank you I definitely will. So now, can you answer if you have experienced discrimination other than the time described? If so, describe another experience.
23:55 Another situation that easily comes to my mind also pertains to my authority being undermined again. On multiple occasions I’ve been looked at as not worthy enough to solve someone’s problem, meaning people have asked white counterparts above me and under me questions that should be directed to me. This caused me to have a meeting reiterating everyone’s role which was needed but very frustrating. It’s also discouraging at times, but I continue to do my job and do it well. There are some people who make this job amazing and pushes me to be a better executive. They honestly see what qualities I bring to the table in order for the company’s success and individual success. Mentoring all of my employees on different spectrums was my selling point when applying for this position and I plan to stick to that. Support systems are needed when trying to network and move up in your field.
25:29 And what is the best way to network in your opinion?
25:35 Hmm. Well there is numerous ways, but I believe it’s best to start with one person and go from there. Try to find that one connection and of course make sure you trust them before becoming vulnerable about your career aspirations. I think genuine associations go far so it’s typically easy for people of color to indulge in conversations with other people of color, which triggers an authentic conversation of relatable factors. I think I met with a supervisor above me before this position, another Black woman, and we instantly connected. Once we were done talking, she felt the need to introduce me to other people and it flowed from there. I’m thankful for people like that who are willing to bring others under their wings and is a reason I felt obligated to do the same for others. Another reason I felt like it was important to do this interview.
26:33 Which I definitely appreciate. Thank you again Ms.______.
26:42 Again, no problem.
26:45 Alright. So, how did you navigate these communication encounters?
26:53 What encounters?
26:56 Your encounters with discrimination.
26:59 Oh. I believe I politely let them know about themselves. I truly let them know about their wrongdoings and act accordingly. I approached the situation in 140
the best manner, so no ill feelings existed afterwards. Addressing the issues head on prevents further altercations. You can’t let the stupidity of others get in the way of you doing your job so either you get over it or you discuss with a purpose.
27:38 Hmmm. I think this is a great transition into the next question. Would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
27:50 Yes, I have. I’ve overcome a lot of obstacles to get where I am today. Those obstacles helped to make me stronger in the long run. Resiliency for me was choosing to be the bigger person for some situations to not quitting jobs that made me feel unwanted. During the time of not truly feeling like I belong, I would take an active duty to look for new jobs and different companies that would appreciate me. Our obstacles define us, but we can choose the definition because we interpret in different ways. My downfall could be just that for a few years, but once I’ve entered into a space of development and growth, I can look at it as my blessing I secretly needed. Use your resilience to build you at all cost because if not, you may retraumatize yourself along the journey.
28:53 Hmm, and can you go deeper into what you mean retraumatize?
29:00 Hmmm. How should I put this? I’m thinking that resilience is a mechanism of healing and building so if you allow yourself to stay put in a dark space or allowing discrimination to take control of you, a cycle will create. Over and over, you will feel those emotions again and that is triggering for some people. Thankfully, all of my examples of my experience have been more minor compared to some of the women I know who have been called the n word or called a bitch, excuse my language, behind their back or in emails that weren’t meant to be exposed but were. So, I acknowledge that I could have experienced worst and thankfully I haven’t.
30:03 No, I understand. I guess I could lead into the next question. So, what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
30:13 Hmmm, I would say honesty. It gets you far in life in general. And not just with other people, but with yourself. Being honest with yourself about situations and people was my first step. I had to do a lot of self-reflecting before I dictated any factor on the outside. With self-reflecting, you figure out if it’s worth it or not and if it deserves your energy and time. Once you’re able to do that, I believe your judgement becomes clearer when making decisions that can change the dynamic. I think that being honest with yourself will help you develop your resilience and when you’re honest with others, I think it develops a peace.
31:05 And now how do you define resiliency? 141
31:10 I would say it’s the ability to never let up, no matter how hard it gets because it’s going to get hard. Trust me. I may have said this already but being an executive, mother, wife, daughter, friend etc., never gets easy. I want to throw in the towel so often, but I physically and mentally can’t. Sometimes I also even feel like it’s unfair but I chose this life so I can’t really say that. You have to keep pushing through the hard times.
31:38 So, could you give me an example of your resiliency?
31:44 Well most recently, I was given a project that required traveling to another Clinic and on the way, I received a flat tire and even was pulled over for supposed speeding but turned into harassment by the police officer. I recorded the interaction and he got angry, called me out my name and we now have an upcoming court date for the unjust treatment. After all this, you would think I would turn around and give up on the day but instead I talked to God and asked him for a calm spirit and completed my project before 7pm. I went home and was able to order dinner, help with homework and even read a little, for fun, before going to sleep and waking up for a brand-new day. Now that’s resilience.
32:36 Wow. Now that’s a day.
32:41 Yep. It truly was but it’s okay. It’s going to work out like it should.
32:49 Definitely and this may be an overlapping question, but do you believe resiliency is necessary for African American woman in C-suite executive positions?
33:00 Yes, definitely. As I’ve said before we are already at a disadvantage. If we don’t have resilience, this world will chew us up and spit us out. Giving up is not an option and when it becomes an option for people of color, it may be rare when you get a true second chance at success. So, I think that it’s a necessity to be resilient as an executive.
33:27 And what coping mechanism have you used to adapt to the workplace?
33:33 I’m all about self-care. I make sure to decompress after work. This could be getting drinks or just lying in bed watching Netflix. I love couple massages the most because my husband is just as stressed, and it’s considered an “us” thing. I try my best to make sure all work is left at work. If work follows me home, it’s because a tight deadline is approaching, or I feel inspired and don’t want to lose my creative thought. I think that overall, we need time to be alone and free and happy sometimes. It’s very vital to take care of ourselves mentally, physically and emotionally if we are going to be successful in anything in life. I need some me time like Heather Headley said. 142
34:32 You must enjoy music because I’ve heard a few music references.
34:38 Yes, could you tell? That is also a way I express my freedom is diving into different music genres.
34:49 Interesting. I love that song so I’m not mad at it. But let me not get too side tracked. We’re almost finished. Now, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
35:04 Now that’s tough. I think I would say my experience has been like a boat in the middle of a hurricane. It’s been tough and I feel like I’ve been in the middle of chaos a lot but eventually there is calmness and peace on the voyage. The boat can also represent a solid foundation so maybe the structure of my job that may need maintenance but will get me to that final destination I’ve planned. That’s just an idea.
35:33 No that’s good. Thank you, and Lastly, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
35:45 Stand your ground. Remember that if you weren’t qualified or worthy for the position you wouldn’t be there. Quit doubting yourself because there are already enough people in the world here to do that. Don’t let anyone, literally anyone, make you feel as if you don’t belong. You are here. Don’t tolerate any disrespect either. You should never settle and allowing disrespect is just that. Settling. There is a HR department for a reason if anyone ever crosses the line. Stand up for yourself when no one will as well. Continue to be your biggest fan and biggest support system and let the success play out. You are worthy of your position and truly don’t forget that my fellow executive.
36:32 Alright, well that’s all I have. Thank you again. Do you have any questions for me?
36:40 I don’t think so. I just look forward to hearing about your findings.
36:43 Okay great. Thank you.
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00:01 Okay. Well thank you again for sparing time for this interview. Your experience means a lot to me and my thesis.
00:10 No problem. I believe the study is very interesting and it’s rare when I’m able to talk about my true experiences.
00:17 And that was my belief when thinking about my topic. I wanted voices that are not often heard, to be heard. So, before we get started with the interview, I want to go over a few things. Like I’ve said before in our one-on-one conversations, I will make sure that your identitiy is kept confidential. I’m not asking that you specifically name call, which you probably wouldn’t do anyways. This interview is a space of complete honesty and comfortability and for the study, I’ll be giving you a pseudonym which is just a fake name, chosen at random. There will be no information revealed about where exactly you work or the name of specific companies just so you know. The purpose of this is to again, allow you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations. I will be asking for your title and there is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from your interview to back up any of the assumptions I’ve made in my thesis but again, no one will know it’s you unless you specifically said so.
01:24 Okay great. I’ll make sure to be as brutally honest as possible.
01:29 Okay good. Next, I want to provide a disclaimer. I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Very triggering at that and could lead to a different space that was unintended, and sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. So, at any time if you want to stop the interview, want to take a quick mental break from the questions or want me to skip a question, for whatever and any reason, please let me know and I’ll do just that. Again, this is your interview and I want to ensure your comfortability.
02:05 Well that is so thoughtful. Thank you Rockia and I will definitely let you know.
02:11 Of course. So first, let’s start off with you stating your name and job title?
02:20 Yes. My name is _____ and I am the Chief Data Officer for ______Bank.
02:28 And are you a member of The Links?
02:31 No but hopefully one day. I was recommended to participate in this interview by ______. We’ve been friends for the past five years.
02:40 Oh okay. I didn’t know that. Well, I still appreciate your input.
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02:45 No problem at all.
02:47 Alright. So first, let’s talk about your upbringing. Tell me about your childhood environment.
02:54 I was brought up in a two-parent household with five older siblings; two brothers and three sisters. Often times I had to speak up and make my presence known in the household or I felt as though I’d be forgotten. I’m not the oldest and I’m not the youngest, so typically middle children are forgotten about. I never felt spoiled by my parents either, which was a feeling I always yearned for. Somehow my siblings believed I was my parents’ favorite, but I think they assumed this because I always tried to be a triple threat. While doing this, I think I gained a lot of support from my parents that my siblings didn’t receive.
03:29 And what does triple threat include?
03:33 I was in every sport and extracurricular activity from band, to volleyball, honor societies, and was even the class president. I tried to exceed in everything I did because I knew college would be expensive and I needed scholarships. If not for academics, I needed to receive a scholarship some other way.
03:51 So, would you describe the relationship between you and your siblings as jealousy?
03:56 Hmm, slightly. We are very competitive. They also participated in different teams and clubs, but they never took it as serious as I did. Even now, I think I’m the most practical.
04:07 Interesting. And what things installed in your life have guided your success? Within academics? Extracurricular? Career wise?
04:16 To be an athlete you have to be motivated and to be motivated, you have to be dedicated and hardworking. So much endurance goes into keeping up with the schedules so without passion, I would be lost. My parents also installed the ability to be outspoken. Again, I come from a big family so closed mouths wouldn’t get fed, like the saying goes. I have to be vocal when my feelings are offended or if I believe my idea can make a greater contribution. Being all these factors and more is needed to dominate my career. I also attended a predominately white institution where those skills were put to use. Of course, the Black community was small but big and when we felt excluded in the university space, it took so much just to feel a quarter of equality. I also know this because I attended a HBCU for my master’s program and the atmosphere was complete opposite. I never had to force my feelings on someone else. I never had to over explain because the people 145
around me already understood. I think my skills I’ve adapted and were enforced in my upbringing helped me become very personable as well. This helps me when networking most of all, because I’m viewed as genuine and authentic. So, all those skills propelled my academic career which carried over in my professional career.
05:48 Alright. And now can you describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in the C-suite.
05:54 It’s rewarding and honorable on most occasions. I feel as if I’m an activist for my people, you know. I’m a piece of evidence showing that yes, we can. Often, we feel like making it to the C-suite is not obtainable, but we have women doing it. We have men of color. The impossible is happening, showing that its possible. It is tough though, knowing the reality of my identity in this typical male dominated space. I have honestly always been outnumbered in my career and I believe that statement can resonate with most people of color. I can’t think of one field that seems predominately Black so it’s unfortunate. My spaces are very white and full of testosterone, which comes with egos and shallow mindsets. Thankfully not all the time, but most and honestly, it’s the challenging moments that have taken away the joy from this position. I’ve actually found myself forcing acceptance too. Meeting a new team is difficult because now I am placed in a position to now gain trust from employees who know the bare minimum about me. Many times, I also found myself finding ways to relate to the men who weren’t fond of me. They never said anything, but their actions told me all I needed. Before this CDO position, I use to be worried about making connections so I could be accepted into the boy’s club. Eventually, you realize you can start your own club. That’s what I feel like I’ve done and currently still doing.
07:32 So, when you say their actions told you all you needed to know, what exactly was going on? What do you mean?
07:41 Mainly dismissal in conversations. At times, I had tried to state my opinion in sports conversations and the men either giggled or ignored my comment, even though I made complete sense. It’s sad and shallow.
07:54 Oh gotcha. I understand now. So, in these spaces, have you ever experienced discrimination in your opinion? And how was it communicated to you?
08:02 Surprisingly, no. Upright discrimination, like not given an opportunity because of my identity? No, but I do feel that I have to prepare myself mentally for the possible encounters with discrimination. You never know what could happen and just because of my position in the C-suite, doesn’t mean I am excused or protected from discrimination happening towards me. When individuals who don’t know me see me, they see a Black woman, not a CDO. So, what will stop them from assuming the worse of me? I have to 146
honestly navigate corporate America as if it’s a game. I share this with fellow mentees or anyone curious about life as an executive. You allow people to think they know you, bond and go to outings with them but don’t let them know too much. I’ve learned that you can’t trust everybody, and some people have hurtful intentions, especially in the corporate world. It’s all about being better than the next person and some individuals are okay with stepping on others, to get to specific positions. The one moment you do let someone in, you risk your information and status being used against you, especially when it comes to promotions. So, like this interview, it’s good that you ensure confidentiality because this is a moment of trust and information shared with you could easily be used against us. Not saying you would do that all. We just all have to remember that “we” can’t do everything “they” do and that’s just a fact in life.
09:46 And when you say “we” and “they” can you clarify?
09:51 We as in the African American community and most people of color and they as White people. Their privilege will secretly always win.
09:59 Okay gotcha.
10:02 And who’s to say our blackness doesn’t give us an advantage at times? Just typically, it’s the other way around.
10:10 Okay. So, to reiterate you stated you haven’t experienced discrimination in the workplace?
10:16 Exactly. However, I know it happens, not only to our community as well.
10:22 Okay. I’ll skip these next follow up questions since they don’t apply to your experience. I am curious to know if you experienced discrimination during your academic career?
10:34 At my HBCU, of course not, but at my PWI, yes. There were few instances of being called the n-word with friends, but it also felt normal. White people just had to remember that with the harmful words they project, there may be consequences. I’m originally from the South and my parents always told my sibling and myself to always stick up for ourselves.
11:00 And did faculty and staff ever handle those situations? That you can remember.
11:07 Not that I can remember, nope. No consequences for the remarks, fights or vandalism. I think I only remember a couple hazing incidents with the PC and NPHC and some issues of plagiarism. I never was caught up in that mess though. I was too focused on my studies and I was a college athlete. 147
11:27 Oh, so you did get that scholarship.
11:31 Yes, I did for volleyball.
11:36 That’s amazing. So hmmm, this next question is technically, did you feel as if the discrimination experienced dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings but in this case, we can ask if you generally have felt that way in the workplace.
11:52 100%. It’s hard to be heard in a board room in front of white men who feel like they’re always right and love battling the slightest ideas that are different from theirs. From the instances I’ve described earlier, they easily show my dismissal and displacement. I honestly don’t think in the workplace feelings are a concern to people, but I believe there is no way to interact with other people and not consider their feelings. I also believe our current culture is more fragile than what everyone is used to so you have to second guess and truly think of the effect your words may have on the people around you. I’m a recent fan of Game of Thrones and I often compare it to that when talking to other women of color with power. Yes, I am the boss, but I also report to other individuals and in the beginning of my career and when those interactions weren’t the greatest, this negatively impacted my self-esteem and overall confidence. This as in the dismissal of feelings and thoughts. I would often question whether or not I was supposed to be in this position. I believe imposter syndrome carries on to different fields and different demographics in general, so I am hard on myself. This also may be the athlete hidden in me still. I had to speak to a lot of other women in positions of power both inside and outside the organization to vent and get “tips” on how to handle this and how to properly prepare for the C-suite I was aiming for. This is why I emphasize support systems. We all need someone to discuss our battles with and we need feedback. Often, I have to handle some of my own emails and depending on the subject, I ask my assistant to read over it to ensure I have an acceptable approach. This is accountability for myself and the company because I don’t want to hinder possible relationships just because I didn’t have someone look over an email.
14:27 Gotcha and have you ever noticed someone else’s feelings, thoughts and experience being dismissed?
14:34 Hmm, I think we all have. I believe if I have, it was very much unintentional.
14:43 And what did you do about it?
14:46 I believe one time, I had to chime in to their supervisor and provide tips on how to handle the situation in the future. He may have felt like I over stepped my boundaries but I am CDO, and if I see something wrong, I speak up 99% 148
of the time. Also, there was one occasion where I pulled an intern and an associate who had work for under six months with the company into my office and it led into a mentoring relationship. We would set up workshops in a sense, and I would give them hypothetical assignments that aligned with their projects given at work, a tactic to better your craft if you don’t want to be an intern forever or an associate. You have to be productive in and out the office.
15:41 Alright thank you for that. So now, how have you navigated these communication encounters? If not reflecting on one specific discriminatory experience.
15:52 Over time, I’ve just learned to not take anything too personal and know I deserve to be in this environment. I deserve to be heard as well. You have to create a balance in all honesty. Sometimes I am pushed into corners where I’m close to choosing between my happiness and the job, but I told myself as long as I’m in this position, I will make it fit me. Trust me, I have scoped out other opportunities out just in case but for right now, I am happy with the position I am in. After all I’ve scarified from sleepless nights, working hard for my two degrees, being a student athlete for so long, I do what I can to navigate my encounters in the best way. I don’t have children, so this always makes it easier. I am in a solid relationship that may lead to that and marriage but right now my career is my baby. I try my best to ensure that I’m on my A-game or that I’m working ten times harder than the next individual at all times, so that if an idea of mine is ever challenged, I’m able to support my claims. Navigating the encounters of foolishness is not tough, so you have to remember yourself and how much you can take. I will always be strong willed, but I do think my communication skills are notable. I know how to handle conflict very well because of my campus and community involvement experience and I have held HR opportunities, so I’ve tried to become as well rounded as possible. Management is not easy like people think. You have overflowing amount of duties so I must be prepared for all instances.
18:17 And if you don’t mind me asking, how do you feel about being an executive and being a mother? I know things happen in life, so I was curious to know if you planned to not have children yet because you career, or it just never happened? I hope I’m not overstepping. If so, I truly apologize! You’re still very young so I know there is no rush at all.
18:47 It’s okay. I understand what you’re asking so honestly, I held off starting a family because I didn’t see how I would manage a personal life and career. It also seems like it’s not safe to live and be Black these days so a part of me has been scared but the key factor of waiting to have children was I wasn’t satisfied with my love life. I wanted to find a man who loved God, loved his job, love to travel and so on and while dating, I wasn’t finding that person. My current man is exactly that and more so we will see what happens. It’s been 149
three years so I’m happy. Now in two years, this is when a family will become a priority of mine and hopefully at that time, I’ve been promoted in my field. Again, I will allow God to guide me in the direction he has planned.
19:36 Okay thank you for that. I know that was personal, but I was curious. Prioritizing is important so I understand.
19:47 Exactly. I’ve always been structured, and I just want to ensure the life I bring my children in is prepared enough that they could one day reflect and say they had a blessed childhood and upbringing.
20:00 I completely understand. So next, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
20:09 Yes, but I make it a point to always be better than the day before. Every day I am faced with new obstacles so it’s interesting to see how my resilience transforms. Regardless of its transformation, it is still very visible. It’s interesting that you ask this because I watched a seminar about Black women’s resilience much recently, and it felt like she knew my journey. She basically stated our resilience is the sun and the moon and the stars. She defined it as our motivation and super power, because not everyone can find a reason to keep going. My reason to keep going always results to my athletic career mentality of keep going, being the best, I can be, and making sure I am multi-talented. I’ve never given up and that’s a feeling I never want to experience. I’ve seen what defeat looks like and it’s a terrible sight. I’ve seen someone lose their resilience and give up on life and its possibility and it broke my heart. If I can avoid that experience, I will do everything in my power to do just that. I would like to add that no one told me how great the C- suite was either. It has many perks and I’ve been recognized in my community on multiple occasions so without my resilience, I wouldn’t have this recognition.
22:17 And what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
22:24 If I ever feel invalidated, I will approach the person in private and ask their intentions. I feel repetitive but I’m very careful with this because some individuals will take it as I’m being aggressive when in actuality, I’m being assertive, which is one thing that has always bothered me. I don’t feel like a lot of people in the corporate world give you benefit of the doubt, so I’m easily depicted off assumptions. Not all the time but it has happened. In a position of power, I’ve learned to master the dry humor within corporate America as well and have been able to master the art of making witty comments. It’s not fun but it’s all a game. It’s sad that we have to sometimes play along but this system is corrupted and has been forever.
23:20 So, what would be your breaking point with playing this game? 150
23:28 I’m not exactly sure but I know that I would never become someone’s muse or allow inappropriate behavior that makes anyone uncomfortable. It only takes one person and I feel the need to investigate.
23:42 Understandable. So, with that being said, how do you define resiliency?
23:48 Simply letting things roll off your back. Like a duck. On occasions I try not to take things too personal and the moments I feel like I’ve been attacked, I either personally decide to let it go or I discuss the situation with someone with a commonality. This commonality could either be our identitiy in the workplace so a fellow executive or identity we promote being our race or gender. I do this to ensure I’m not viewing the manner from a one-sided perspective. Again, double checking to ensure I did all that I could on my behalf. From this, I’ve learned that letting things roll of your back may be best in the moment but mentally, may cause greater issues. To allow yourself to get over things, you have to internally be over it and I’ve had moments where I thought I was but quickly learned I was still full of discomfort. It’s all a part of growth and learning yourself so it’s okay.
24:55 Oh, a duck. I see what you did there. Alright, so specifically as a Black woman, is resilience necessary for C-suite executive positions?
25:08 Absolutely, no doubt. Someone is watching your success and failure every minute meaning your enemies will try everything in their power to defeat you or knock you down. Most of the time all you can do is keep going.
25:23 So, in particular, why is it needed for Black woman in C-suite executive positions?
25:33 I would say its rooted in our history so typically it’s tough to avoid but it’s needed because the stereotypes we face every day can tear us down or build us up. We have to choose the narrative. It’s needed because in my opinion, organizations strive better with a Black woman in charge. We are knowledgeable, assertive, goal oriented, willing to be better, compassionate, everything an organization truly needs. I know I’m bias, but it’s become evident in multiple cases that we are needed for success. You will always find a Black woman in the blueprint. Trust me.
26:17 Interesting, and in what ways do you cope to adapt to the workplace?
26:23 Positive thinking is the key. I try my best to reduce all negativity from my space because it’s impossible to stay away from the devil and his ways. In a moment of discomfort and isolation, I turn to the thoughts of my family and what this position means to us and return to my executive mentality. I listen to different podcast that are full of positive affirmations as well. There’s 151
podcast that focus on Black women, executive culture even sexuality so I tend to get my day started with those and of course coffee. A necessity to coping. Oh, and self-love books. Michelle Obama’s did wonders for my life that I even joined a book club.
27:15 Okay good. Now what metaphor would you choose to best describe the experience of an African American woman in a C-suite executive positions?
27:27 Consider yourself to be a marathon. Your career is not a race. It takes time, endurance and perseverance. We get too caught up in trying to be the first when accomplishing our goals but what matters most is how your run your race. The journey to the finish line shouldn’t be rushed. It should be enjoyed and cherish, or you will look back and regret how you participated.
27:55 Nipsey Hussle use to say that all the time and I believe that has stuck with many people. Anyways, so here is the last question and if you have any for me, feel free to ask. So, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive who is coping with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
28:16 It’s important to create and keep your group of confidants close by. You can consider this your go to team. This will be your support system that you can trust in the work place and outside the workplace. You can create two separate ones or an overlapping team. It’s truly up to you but I highly suggest one in general. The confidants you choose typically are those who look like you, but that doesn’t mean they have to. They should be understanding but also willing to be honest with you. You don’t need any “yes man’s” because you have enough of those in the workplace setting. Continue to again, surround yourself with like-minded individuals because sometimes it’s the key to success in these spaces as a C-suite member.
29:17 Alright. That’s all I have. Any questions for me?
29:20 Just one. What is your opinion on our experience as C-suite executives?
29:28 Wow that’s a good question. Well, I hate to assume so I’m just curious to the battles faced. I feel like society looks at most success as “oh I’ve made it” but I know that even at the end of the finish line, there is another race waiting to happen. I feel like research doesn’t dive deep into Black women who are also executives specifically C-suite, so I wanted to fill that gap or at least try to.
29:56 Well I wish you the best as I know you’ll do great things in the near future.
30:07 Thank you! I really appreciate that
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00:01 Alright. So, thank you for sparing time for this interview.
00:10 No problem. I’m just happy to contribute.
00:17 So, before we get started with the interview, I want to go over a few things. I will make sure that your identitiy is kept confidential. This interview is a space of complete honesty and comfortability and for the study, I’ll be giving you a pseudonym which is just a fake name, chosen at random. There will be no information released about where. The purpose of this is to allow you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current or past workplace. I will be asking for your job title and there is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from your interview to back up any of the assumptions I’ve made in my thesis but again, no one will know it’s you unless you specifically said so.
01:24 Okay sounds good to me.
01:29 Okay and next is a disclaimer. I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental, so I am hoping this conversation doesn’t bring up an experience that was once damaging mentally or emotionally. Sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. So, at any time if you want to stop the interview, want to take a quick break from the questions or want to skip a question, please let me know and I’ll do just that. This is your interview and I want to ensure you’re comfortable at all moments.
02:05 Got it and will do.
02:11 So first, let’s have you state your name and job title.
02:15 Alright. I’m ______as you know and I’m the Chief Marketing Officer of a Federal Credit Union located in 34 states, so still growing.
02:29 Still growing? That’s over half the country. That’s amazing.
02:38 Well thank you. Hopefully we can add two or three more states in the next year.
02:45 Well, good luck with that. So, what led to this success?
02:52 Well growing up, I’ve always been very creative. I enjoyed drawing and felt like my ideas needed to be seen on a bigger platform so early on in undergrad, I challenged myself to craft my web and graphic design skills. I started with assisting organizations as their PR chair, making logos or flyers for campus events and eventually led to a minor business. People in my class were so creative, so I found myself designing business cards as well for people who considered themselves a hairstylist, nail teach, denim guru and 153
so on. I even had the dream of doing marketing for Nike or Adidas one day and as you can see, I got half of it right. I wanted my career to include my passion because I would see so many people from my community settle and I couldn’t handle that idea. Soon after enhancing my resume, I realized I didn’t need my master’s, so I didn’t further my education, but I did ensure internship opportunities that ranged in benefits within the communication field.
04:33 And what kind of positions did you withhold? Along with, do you feel they were all contributing factors to today’s success?
04:45 Well everything we experience contributes to the person we are today. So yes, all the internships, even the useless ones, made me look like a perfect candidate on paper. I held positions as a marketing intern that was actually selling windows in neighborhoods. I obtained a digital media internship with my undergrad’s athletic department and the college of Arts & Sciences which helped more so with networking. I was meeting people with status and hidden opportunities, even scholarships, based upon creative abilities so I felt honored or even privileged to be crafted with a hands-on talent.
05:34 And what would you say was your favorite internship?
05:40 Definitely working with the athletic department. I am an alumna of a D1 university, and we were very prominent for winning National Championships. Our whole department was given passes to all the games, so I was able to enjoy myself while working.
06:04 That makes sense. Okay, so now, can you tell me more details about your upbringing. How was your childhood?
06:16 Well I was the oldest in a one-parent household so you can only imagine the responsibilities piled on my plate. Being that it was just my mother, a lot of the time I was the one picking up when she lacked with my siblings, from school projects needing assistance to watching my younger sisters while my mom was at work. I had to grow up quick unfortunately and be the other woman around the house. This experience, which could be considered good or bad for a child who was only 11, however I try to focus on the benefits first and then the flaws later established. Another factor to consider, is it also made me feel like I could do everything on my own. Even now, it is difficult for me to accept a helping hand because I’ve always been raised to get things done. I have this internal feeling that I can’t rely on others. Others have disappointed me in the past and I realized if I disappoint myself, all I can do is blame myself rather than others. Does that make sense?
07:42 Yes, I completely understand.
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07:47 Yeah, and to add I watched my mother, a strong independent Black woman, not ask for help so now I have this mentality that I can do everything on my own. No matter what it is, unless I physically can’t, I believe I can do it on my own.
08:05 And how do you think that’s mentality hindered you?
08:10 It’s mostly affected my mental health in the past. I would feel swallowed up by stress factors, try to handle it on my own, and then fall into a depressive state of mind. It’s gotten better with age and self-realization. One thing I suggest to people in the Black community is seek help. We have these negative connotations about therapy when I believe it has actually saved my life.
08:33 And how so?
08:35 Therapy helped me realize what needed to be worked on in order to be the best version of myself. Can’t really explain it pass that.
08:47 I understand. So, follow up question, do you feel like a burden when turning to others?
09:01 In a sense, yes. I know I’m strong and others may have more serious situations happening in their life, so I never want to take from their focus. I know things will work out because they always do. The storm eventually passes over.
09:18 So, with that being said, what things were installed in your life that have guided your success today?
09:26 Well first, learning to balance my independence with having a support system. Once I learned to accept both, I believe a weight was lifting from my plate. In addition, I would say accepting that at times I’ll be uncomfortable with the positions God places me in. This transformation just means growth is happening, but this took a while to understand. Welcoming an uncomfortable state is just welcoming change. I now see it’s a part of the journey, but the key factor installed in my life is definitely the steadiness of being my biggest critic and biggest fan. This helps me compete with the opinion the matters most in my life.
10:09 Do you believe that mentality is common for African American women?
10:17 Yes definitely. Typically, we are raised in an atmosphere with a strong individual who also reminds us there is always room for improvement and if not, we go through different obstacles such as work experiences or academic career and run into someone who is seen as a mentor. Whoever it is, again 155
typically pushes us to have confidence and celebrate the wins but also seek for the gaps that need improvement.
10:55 Alright. So, now can you describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in the C-suite position.
11:04 Truthfully, I believe I am overlooked by those who don’t identify with me or those who may believe I only sit in the C-suite because I am Black, so my experience hasn’t been the greatest. I’m actually at two disadvantages being Black and a woman so I’m simply taken for granted. I noticed in different situations, specifically conversations when my opinion is not cherished at board meetings. I’m often curious to why am I in this position and I’m not sure if I want the real answer. I’ve learned though, that to gain respect I must fully assert myself, in all situations where the CMO is needed. This can be taken different depending on the perspective and attitude of my employees. I know at times they may view me as bossy firmly because I have to be assertive and self-assured, but I believe it’s viewed differently when a man, of any race, is at the head of a company. When a man is putting his food down, he is seen as a competent leader and nothing less. Other C-suite executives who aren’t an African American woman do not receive even a quarter of the issues I run into. Seems to just be the price we pay for being Black and woman.
12:32 So, you have already recognized a difference in treatment. So now I ask, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? How was it communicated to you?
12:50 Have I ever been discriminated against? Being a woman is just one thing but being a black woman? Of course, I’ve experienced discrimination even outside of this current position. Sometimes this is something as simple as walking into a room and being treated like a regular associate because someone doesn’t realize that I am their superior in the workplace. I I think now that I have worked for the company for a few years, I haven’t had as many issues but the first year was consistent discrimination and neglect. If it wasn’t one thing, it was another. I found myself dealing with constant questions on the decisions being made for the company’s exposure and development. I felt as I was explaining myself and thought process to too many individuals who didn’t carry enough jurisdiction and would ask foolish questions about my experience or suggesting I ask a male colleague for advice before presenting my ideas or made a decision. My reputation now, being strong minded and the success that’s brought the federal credit union, has cleared the challenges that were faced.
14:03 Makes sense. So, did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
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14:11 There have been times where I felt it has been intentional but for the most part, I feel like most people don’t realize they are doing it. We live in a sensitive culture that is also full of much ignorance so if it isn’t obvious discrimination, we have to create assumptions to understand intent. Most people, even now as we are half way through 2019, expect a man to be a boss or a man to be the smartest person in the room regardless of how many women have broken barriers. These are the individuals who are typically prejudice as well.
15:12 And how did you address the experience?
15:18 With this experience, I sometimes feel the need to prove myself more than I should. The point is to ensure that I am not being walked over and that my voice is heard. So, I guess my best way of addressing the issue is upfront conversations about issues that have been inappropriate. If you’re not able to correct individuals, your silence is confirmation of their stupidity. Along with this, I address the experience in general by working three times harder than my white counterparts.
15:55 So, I guess a better follow up question is do you think it’s best to address your experience with discrimination with your actions or your words?
16:08 I believe a mixture of both is needed. You need to show your resistance while also speaking your mind. It is also situational because there is a time and place for everything. Some situations may not need to be verbally addressed in general or at the time, but some situations of discrimination are better left handled by showing resiliency or putting more effort into work ethic. It just depends.
16:40 Okay. Did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings?
16:49 Absolutely. Very unfortunate though. I remember one time my suggestion was rejected and following my statement someone slightly reworded my idea and it was then accepted. It felt like a slap in the face honestly and in this specific situation, it feels as if my opinion was somehow inadequate. The opinion of Black women is not always valued. People pick and choose when to listen to us and at times, people are unsatisfied with the idea of our opinion being the best in the room. It’s sad but I believe in a realistic view. Most people of color in these powerful positions were chosen because of their skin. This can be viewed as good and bad but hopefully those in power utilize the opportunity.
17:52 And do you feel like you have experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation.
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18:03 Yes, but no. I’ve heard horror stories that I’m thankful that I haven’t experienced them. I’m sure there has been another incident where someone with privilege looked down upon me and viewed a minor offensive comment or action as “not that serious”. Words hold so much meaning and I believe people do not like to recognize that.
18:28 Noted. So, hmm. Let me see what I have next.
18:36 These are great questions so far, good job.
18:42 Thank you, I appreciate it. So, when it has happened the discrimination you speak of, how did you navigate these communication encounters?
18:57 Depending on the situation, there is sometimes a need to be passive aggressive, and it differs from being rude. Again, the levels of communication vary on the circumstances.
19:12 Interesting.
19:14 Yes, with every encounter I try to ensure I handle it like an executive. Again, remembering that there is a time and place for all situations. I have to remember the role I play and keep hold of the person I truly am, so I don’t feel like I’m cheating myself.
19:38 So, next would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
19:43 Yes. I honestly feel like I have no choice but to be resilient throughout my career. There have been times where I felt I wasn’t deserving and when I say that, I mean the idea of not being good enough. This is a constant voice in my head that says the next person is better than me. With all the doubt in the world, I had no choice but to bounce back because what other real option is there? Give up? Heavens no. I needed to put my big girl pants on and pick myself up out of misery and anger; anger with myself because of failure, and misery caused by sadden mistakes. I had to continue on my path regardless of who didn’t like my skin, my hair, my intellect. We all have to. I’ve had those moments were I just wanted to say I'm done, throw in the towel but I can’t. Every day I mentally quit my job but over the years you just learn it's not how you fall but how you pick yourself up and recover.
20:53 Would you say it gets easier with time?
20:58 Not exactly. It gets more manageable though. You begin to figure out tactics that help you deal with the obstacles thrown at you in daily interactions. I believe I am definitely more aware than I once was.
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21:11 Okay. And what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
21:17 You know how drag culture would say honey that was a read? Well I read people. Up and down, left to right but mentally. I am full of public opinions that I micromanage in an organized way. I am very observant of how people interact with me and others. I even notice people before they notice me, I’m just that curious. They just don’t know I am watching their moves until I open my mouth later on and refer to something from moments before. I am always paying attention though.
21:53 Could you give me an example?
21:58 In a previous conversation an employee made a reference to Obama and a newspaper cartoon that drew him as a monkey. The group of individuals thought it was hilarious and later on, in our final meeting for the day, I referenced the conversation on a broad spectrum, reminding all employees to remember they are a part of a diverse cooperation and if they feel different, this is not the place for them. In the end, I asked two specific people if they understood and if they had any comments to add. Of course, they stated no and later apologized, instantly knowing why I asked them. Things of this nature are examples of comments, viewed as harmless, being recognized by higher up individuals but neglected by those who make the offensive remarks. You have to pay attention because you never know who is watching and listening in the workplace. This is also important for your public image on social media.
23:13 Interesting. Thank you. Would you say this is a skill that pertains to your identity?
23:21 What do you mean?
23:25 Well without leading you, I can only do my best to repeat the question with similar verbiage. So, would you say or acknowledge that it is a skill, paying attention to others, is something that is attached to your identity?
23:42 Well I think we live in a current society where we should all pay attention more. Women are at risk every day with predators running the street. The Black community is a typical target of police brutality, racial profiling, and more. We see immigrants labeled as terrorist, not belonging and ripped from their families. The LGBTQ community, specifically the trans community, are ridiculed and also murdered because of their identitiy. Mass shootings, one of our biggest threats. All targets of different forms, so we must pay attention to our surroundings at all cost.
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24:32 Understandable. So, with that being said, next question is can you give me your definition of resiliency?
24:47 I explain it as the ability to bounce back, and again, how you recover after you fall. Resilience is something that became a big deal for me when I was in college. It was literally everywhere, from the classes that never let up to the lack of respect for the Black community received on campus. We never felt included but of course the university pushed diversity with its diversity scholarship. Honestly, most of the people I knew were only there because of the money. They want to attend a HBCU which is way more expensive, so resiliency had to play a big role in a predominantly white space. So, learning to be resilient was such an important factor in my life. This included not letting my struggles define me but allowing them to push me forward and also learning how to find myself even when I feel overwhelmed or lost. It’s so easy to get stuck in a dark space but I refuse to let that become my story. I refuse.
26:45 Well thank you for the honesty. So now, would you say the resilience is necessary for African American woman C-suite executives?
26:59 Most definitely. This is not for the weak, or you will be walked over. You have to keep a strong back bone because of the people you run into and even the criticism you will face. Every day is a true challenge.
27:35 So, what coping mechanism have you used to adapt to the workplace?
27:47 Mainly, not take things too personal. Yes, sometimes people will attack my character but at other times I realize that they are the problem, not me. I can’t change people, but I can make an effort to educate others. I guess another idea of coping would be creating a peace of mind with different activities.
28:03 Such as?
28:06 Hmmm. I would say alone movie dates, finding words of encouragement through friends and all things to create a balance in spiritual healing.
28:20 Okay and next, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
28:35 That’s tough. Let me think…. Hmm….
28:57 I can go to the next question if you would like?
29:16 Yes that’s fine. Sorry, I just can’t think of one right now. 160
29:25 No it’s fine. So, last question, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
29:39 Keep pushing. You have to. I’ve learned that at an early age and thankfully it has followed my endurance throughout my career. Also, make sure you get back up and dust yourself off. We can’t carry the world on our shoulders every day or it will physically, mentally, an emotionally deter us. While doing all these things, just ensure that you hold on to your faith. Having faith and belief in something can make a difference when all else fails and no one is physically there. Oh, and again make sure you never let the negativity in the world bring you down. Every day is society there is a new senseless murder and injustice political values being pushed onto our hierarchy system so try your best to not let it keep you from a good night of rest and regrouping. It’s not worth it and at the end of the day, they have the problem, not you.
30:24 Great. Thank you so much! Do you have anything else to add?
30:37 No, I don’t.
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00:02 Okay, so thank you for sparing time for this interview. I truly appreciate it.
00:11 Oh no problem. I’m happy I could be of assistance to your project.
00:21 Alright so before we start the interview, I want to go over a few things. I will make sure that your identitiy is kept confidential. This interview is a space of complete honesty and I want to make sure you are comfortable. For the study, I’ll be giving you a pseudonym which is just a fake name, something I just make up, choosing at random. In addition, there will be no information released about where you work. You’re allowed to be as open as needed and if you want to refer to specific situations at your current or past workplace, I will ensure this information is blocked out of the data. I will be asking for your job title specifically and there is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from your interview to back up any of the assumptions I’ve made in my thesis but again, no one will know it’s you unless you specifically said so. How does that sound?
01:58 Okay sounds good to me.
02:04 Okay and another disclaimer. I know that depending on your experience, it could have been traumatic and reliving trauma can be detrimental. So, I am hoping this conversation doesn’t bring up an experience that was once damaging mentally or emotionally. If so let me know. Sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings and I wanted to acknowledge that. So, at any time if you want to stop the interview, want to take a quick break from the questions or want to skip a question, for any reason, please let me know and I’ll do just that. No questions asked. Again, this is your interview and I want to ensure you’re comfortable at all moments.
03:10 Okay sounds like a plan and I will do exactly that.
03:17 So first, can you please state your name and job title for me please?
03:27 Of course. My name is______and Chief Financial Officer at a University. I rather not say where though.
03:39 That’s understandable. So, first question is can you tell me about your upbringing?
03:48 Sure. I’m originally from the south and my parents served our country for many reasons. I was brought up with the understanding from my parents that I was to seek wisdom, confidence, God, and be true to myself even if that meant asking questions. I was never the shy type as well, always very vocal. I’ve always been able to adapt and see the world differently, so I feel like my perspective can be viewed as universal. I’m appreciative of the fact that I 162
come from a bloodline of hard workers who now, live a comfortable lifestyle. Sure, they have sacrificed things that they did not want to but through my experiences, I continue my life’s work with respect from little leadership responsibilities to big leadership responsibilities. It took me awhile to truly understand that and accept my humble beginnings. I can admit that I was a little spoiled growing up. Well, maybe more than a little, but nonetheless I always had a little fire burning inside that keeps me from giving up.
05:27 Do you think that being spoiled is a downfall?
05:33 Not really. Just overly blessed. Being spoiled taught me how to work hard so that one day I can spoil myself and not rely on others. Having children also allows me to spoil them as they should, but of course with limitations.
05:56 Okay, so this seems like a great Segway into the next question. What things installed in your life have guided your success in particular?
06:07 To continue on per my last response, those were some of the things that has guided my success. The biggest guidance tool is God but at times I do fall short. It’s difficult to hold on to your faith when you hit rough patches, but I always remind myself that God will not give up on me as long as I believe in him. I also try my best to seek wisdom from those who have been placed in my life along the way. It’s good to seek guidance from individuals with more experience and knowledge, typically mentors or role models. Most people do not realize that discernment and the ability to stop, pause, and listen are all things that can help them, as it helped me. It still does till this day.
07:26 So do you consider yourself religious?
07:35 Yes, I do. My faith is everything. When I don’t have the answer, I turn to God for guidance. He creates a clear direction and provides miracles when I lose faith.
07:48 Okay. So now, describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position.
08:04 It is a rewarding challenge. The reward is of course the position itself and the academic atmosphere. The challenge is keeping up with the constant change and demand to serve all. I just began my term last Fall and it has been quite a journey. I am good at what I do, and I do believe that with the folks that I have had the pleasure to work with, we are going to show you better than we can tell you. My experiences have all worked together for the good even when I had difficulty seeing the light. I’m thankful for this opportunity however I still have much to experience in this field and this executive position.
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09:16 What do you mean you ‘will show us better than you will tell us’ based off the question asking to describe your workplace experience?
09:34 Well my experience in the workplace isn’t based off explaining the hardships and the accomplishments, but more so viewing the actual outcome of the situations. We live thru it.
09:50 Hmm, okay.
09:55 Does that make sense?
10:00 I guess. I believe so. So, in reference to another thing you mentioned, what constant change and demand do you speak of?
10:16 Well in the education system, there is always something changing. A curveball is always thrown at you and a hurdle is just waiting around the corner. This is the same for corporate world, but I believe higher education is on a different platform of constant changes especially with me working in finances. Most universities have a change in their tuition each year and this is based off budget cuts. Some programs are given an increase in finances and some have money withdrawal. It’s very unfortunate but it’s all a part of the hierarchy system we live in. Supply and demand.
11:14 Alright. So now, let’s reflect on your work experience. Have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? And how was it communicated to you?
11:28 Well I want to first say, discrimination in the workplace is not always seen with the naked eye. There are many forms of discrimination but under no specific circumstance, have I experienced imbalances of inclusivity. It is unfortunate that paradoxical thought processes affect how people perceive others. It really is. Generally speaking, it is important to interrupt those thought-provoking processes. It’s healthy for development in today’s society as well. So, typically I try to seek out the other persons point of view. I may ask, questions to see what motivated the person to think the way that they did or why they would say what they said. I try to help clarify for a better understanding so that I can move forward and handle the situation with kindness.
12:49 So, do you think this is the best tactic?
12:59 I believe so. It’s an approach that allows me to decipher my reactions in the best way possible. I believe all actions have an answer or some type of reason and sometimes, situations occur as an accident. Clarity is helpful in these scenarios.
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13:32 So, to be exact, have you experienced discrimination in the workplace?
13:37 If I must say, yes but nothing like I’ve heard.
13:48 Can you further explain please?
13:54 Well, I know most assumptions or situations are more apparent or recognized when it comes to direct workplace discrimination. This includes direct comments or actions towards people who do not meet the norm. Things that come to mind are outright remarks about someone’s race, gender, nationality, or class they identify with. The criminalization of someone based upon their physical being is discrimination or calling someone out their name, is what comes to mind. I hear about different individuals being offended at this job and I can’t imagine that disrespect. The discrimination I’ve slightly ran into dealt with undermining comments made towards my work and the assumptions of my identitiy.
15:35 Hmm. So sorry to go back to when I asked you about being religious, but I have a follow up question. Do you believe you have to be religious or spiritual to deal with discrimination in your workplace?
16:08 Religious? No. I do not believe in forcing religion on any human. That’s inhumane in my opinion and there are so many to practice. I do believe having spiritual guidance can make the process easier at times. When you’re lost, or even second guessing your path, sometimes a spiritual force can give you the faith you’re lacking. This does not help everyone, but it has helped me.
17:00 So again, following an earlier question. How do you exactly turn to God when facing discrimination?
17:14 I’m not sure how to fully explain it but it simply falls into having faith. Karma is real in my opinion so you must treat people the way you want to be treated. If not, your success is further than you think. There are hateful people out there in this world we live, and we must accept it unfortunately. When facing discrimination, I hold on to my faith that God will handle it and hold on to patience when dealing with people of that nature. We must pray over our enemies.
18:25 Interesting. So next, did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional? Whenever you did experience it?
18:41 Whether it was intentional or not, I did not allow the external situation to throw me off of my game. See, in life you will go through a number of unpleasant things that no one wants to experience but it builds character and armor, just like the saying “what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger”. You 165
need to also build an armor in order to not take things personally. It is easier said than done but after years of practice, you truly learn to work through experiences with points of reference from your past, with your head held high. Intentionality matters, but what happens after that? Does the anger and annoyance actually change anything?
19:57 Hmm. Okay, so regardless of the intentions, did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings?
20:36 No however, I do think that when you do not allow yourself to process those emotions you have the potential to suppress your feelings which is not healthy. Specifically, the holistic self is to be cared for and in my previous response, it is about finding those people who you call to be your support system. Without it, there is potential to feel dismissed especially when you do not acknowledge it or have the support to come forward to honor yourself. This is why it’s important to acknowledge any internal issues hands on when they are first encountered. It’s all a part of the healing process. When neglected, you then feel dismissed or unimportant.
22:04 Do you know other C-suite executives that identify as African American women, who have felt as if discrimination dismissed their thoughts, experiences and feelings?
22:23 I will say in general, Black women in the corporate world do feel that way. An incident of disregard has pushed them into a corner of feeling less valued or unimportant. It’s a familiar feeling depending on the dominance of your space honestly.
22:49 Alright. So, how do you navigate these communication encounters?
22:58 Can you be more specific?
23:03 Yes. So, when it comes to discrimination as we’ve talked about, feelings dismissed and so on, how do you navigate those communication encounters? I hope that was helpful. I wanted to make sure I didn’t lead you when clarifying the question.
23:26 No it’s fine. I think it honestly takes a lot of prayer before going into a conversation. I want to be sure that I feel what the other person is feeling to grasp a better understanding. Empathy is the key. Again, it is about finding common ground and working through our issues and not operating from a pessimistic standpoint. We are human and I firmly believe in not talking at someone and not listening just to respond. We need to begin reminding ourselves about that in all situations. There is no sense in hiding or downplaying our errors as well. We are not perfect. Things work out better when you can admit your wrongness to seek out the righteousness. This is 166
my belief, very different from others and this may make me optimistic, but I feel like more people should. It’s needed in the academic space.
25:03 Okay. So, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
25:13 Yes, I have to be. That is a part of life. No matter the obstacles we face, we typically have to push through or keep on going in order to make it to the other side of fate. Just think about your own experiences for a second. You didn’t get to where you are overnight, but you are here. There’s a fire burning inside of us that keeps us going. The fire can be fueled by our spiritual mindset, maybe a person or group of people who look to us as inspiration, truly anything that sparks our passion. We eat, breath, and live a life through the lenses of resiliency.
26:43 And what communication strategies have you used in developing the resilience you speak of?
26:54 I definitely have shed many tears, frustrations, and more. Something that helps me is affirming that I am where I am because of the divine purpose. Whatever that may be, I am here, and this was no mistake. God created a plan just for me, even before it became apparent. I develop armor through my experiences. I know that taking things personally doesn’t help either, so I try not to do that either. I talk with other wise individuals who have given me some of the best advice thus far. I have mentors even at this level who still get me together when times are good and bad. So, all in all, a mixture is needed.
28:00 So how do you define resiliency?
28:11 When you keep returning to something that challenges every bit of yourself; your mental, your physical etc. In the same breath, you are determined to reach your highest capacity regardless of things that think they can stop you. In situations, people label someone who is resilient as a go-getter, a trailblazer, a role model, whatever name that can apply to someone who finds perseverance in the end.
28:58 And what do you believe is your most resilient moment while being a C-suite executive?
29:13 I believe there is not a specific moment I can highlight. My personal struggles and my career obstacles have included many periods of resilience.
29:24 So, no one moment stands out more than the rest?
29:30 If I had to choose one, it would be a reflection of the very beginning of my job. I am still fairly new but the first few moments were troublesome. I had many 167
days where I second guessed the position mainly because I was new and still adapting. I quickly realize I needed to hold on to the word of God in order to be resilient and be the best CFO possible.
30:15 With your definition of resilience, do you believe it is necessary for African American woman C-suite executives?
30:27 It is necessary for anyone with an active purpose in this lifetime.
30:36 Next, what coping mechanism have you used to adapt to the workplace?
30:48 I often utilize my past as points of reference. I insert myself in other spaces to stay relevant and fluid with the work that I do. I stay in touch with my family and friends and I spend time doing things that I like to do outside of the workplace. This includes a variety of activities.
31:27 Okay. So, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
31:42 Um, I would say that it has felt like going through the fire yet, I remained whole without a burn or scratch on my body. The bigger picture to that metaphor feels like Donnie Hathaway’s song, “Someday We’ll All Be Free”. He says, “Hang on to the world as it spins around just don’t let the spin get you down. Things are moving fast, hold on tight and you will last. Keep yourself respect, your manly pride, get yourself in gear, keep yourself in stride. Never mind your fears, brighter days will soon be here. Take it from me, someday we’ll all be free”. With that, the marathon continues.
32:50 And last, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
33:09 Acknowledge the situation. Keep formal documentation. Never dismiss it. Receive it. Process that. Utilize your support system and remember that it is okay to be human yet, always remain respectful. Work with others to actively challenge racial microaggressions. Be compassionate and try not to take what was said personally. Be sure to work with executive members and follow up with all actions. Pray, which I should have said first, pause, and repeat.
33:56 Alright. That’s all I have. Do you have anything to add?
34:06 No I do not.
34:18 Well thank you so much for this interview!
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00:02 Hmm, okay. So first before we get started, let’s go over a few things and of course, I want to say thank you again for volunteering to do this interview. I really appreciate this!
00:26 Oh it’s no problem at all. A longtime friend of mine told me about your project and I grew much interest.
00:37 Well thank you to her as well. I’m happy you could be included.
00:48 Of course.
00:52 Okay. So, before we get started, I wanted to basically go over information I have already previously told you about but wanted to reiterate for this recording. To keep your experiences confidential, you will be given a fake name on all paper work. We refer to it as a pseudonym. For this study in particular, there will be no information revealed about where exactly you work. This allows you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current or past job. I will be asking for your title but that’s all. There is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from this interview to back up any of the assumptions I make in my study but again, no one will know it’s you unless you were to release that information.
02:06 Okay perfectly understandable.
02:12 Okay good. So next, I want to provide a disclaimer, that may not be needed. I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Situations can be triggering and sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. So, at any time, if you want to stop the interview, need a break from the questions or want me to skip a question, for whatever reason, please let me know and I’ll do just that.
03:22 Okay great. Thank you for being considerate and I will definitely let you know if any of this applies.
03:34 Alright. So first, could you state your name and title in your field?
03:46 Yes. My name is ______and I was the Chief Diversity Office of a local nonprofit in Cincinnati. I am now on a retired track as I manage my own business from home and take care of my husband who is currently ill.
04:03 Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. I will keep him in my prayers.
04:12 Thank you, sweetheart.
04:18 So, to get started can you tell me about your upbringing?
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04:27 Well I was raised by a single mother and have always been surrounded by positive role models such as my grandmother, aunt, and sisters. I had one older sister in the household, one younger sister who lived further away with her mom, and later discovered another sister who was in the military. They have all helped at shaping me into the woman I am today. My mother constantly showed her strength, my grandmother and aunts were determined to shower me in love, and my sisters were examples of determination and creativity. Thankfully, I wouldn’t trade my upbringing for anything, including the challenges I faced because I was able to push myself harder when it comes to any of my goals and aspirations.
05:29 If you don’t mind sharing, what are some of the challenges you speak of? If that’s too personal, I can definitely go on to the next question.
05:48 Well, let’s just say an absent father contributed to a lot of my struggles growing up. I lacked knowledge of what love to seek, trust issues with those outside of my close family members, things of that nature. The Brightside is I’ve always been prepared for disappointment and readjustment in life. The saying “rolling with the punches” is something I like to keep in mind.
06:25 So, to transition into my next question, what things were installed in your life have guided your success?
06:51 Having a strong mindset, being goal oriented, a leader, educated and independent are just a few things that are invested into the development of a Black woman. These all being my greatest characteristics and have led me to my current position. I was also always encouraged to do better and be better, especially academically when growing up so this may be the reason I like to go over and beyond.
07:39 And what do you think is the greatest thing installed in your life? If you had to choose one.
07:54 I believe my independence mixed with having a strong mindset. They have to coexist in my opinion. I saw the independence in the women around me, saw how much courage was installed in them along with strength and fortitude. I wanted to be just like that as a young girl, so I tried my best to follow in their footsteps when it came to decision making.
08:32 Would you consider those women in your life your role models or mentors?
08:47 Yes, I do consider them my role models. They inspire me in ways I can’t describe and that’s not always the case. I know some people who weren’t as lucky to have a great mother who sacrificed her all, or aunts and a grandmother who showered them in unconditional love, or even sisters who
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pushed resiliency. I’m blessed because my upbringing is one, I don’t mind sharing, the good and bad. I try to always remember that.
09:46 Okay, and now, can you describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position?
10:05 It’s been full of doubt to be honest; self-doubt and plenty of doubt from others. A lot of people root for women or Black women in these positions, but those who don’t agree will push negativity any chance given. I believe those negative people tend to think women can’t hold leadership positions because we’re said to be emotional or can’t handle pressure. This, among other reasons, was the topic of debate when it came to Hilary Clinton being the first female president. Society chose a different route as we see. So, to reiterate what was stated earlier, I am thankful to have a strong mindset because it’s how I ensure my judgement isn’t clouded. I am able to stay grounded in my decisions and deflect negative thoughts most of the time. However, it is sad what doubt can do, mainly doubt from others. It can make you feel incompetent to do your job. It can be your worse enemy. I spent ten plus years in my position and of course had many great moments as well, but the doubt definitely stood out.
11:59 Alright. So now, reflecting on your workplace experience, have you ever experienced discrimination and how was it communicated to you?
12:13 In the beginning of my position, I endured a lot of criticism and discrimination from employees and other C-suite executives in different departments. In society men tend to think they have a more important position then women, and my most recent space was white dominated, so I felt as I was double outnumbered. However, being the CDO, I think they expected a person of color, so it wasn’t a shock to the C-suite, but they probably preferred a man to do the job. When they see a woman leading meetings or calling all of the shots as they say, people become intimidated. That intimidation would turn into fear. Fearing my womanhood and my authority. You know, it’s funny how chatty the workplace is. I would hear through the grapevine that I couldn’t handle my position or employees would question how important I am for the company. I often laughed and later addressed it but it’s just crazy to me how individuals believe their honest opinions are safe with some of the people they work with. This is not to say you can’t trust anyone in the corporate world or academic spaces, that is not true. The same rules apply to the nonprofit field. You just have to be careful. But anyways, with all the criticism I receive and moments of discrimination, I used it as motivation to prove people wrong. Towards the end of my last few years working as a CDO, deference was more apparent. I have seniority so the respect instantly increased. There were times my decision to implement different workshops and suggest joint ventures with other nonprofits was bullied with questions, even when presented with research to act as 171
evidence. Colleagues said they didn’t “trust” the idea to enhance the workplace or how the nonprofit was perceived. Now, that I’ve proven myself multiple times, most presentations end with “do what you feel is best. We trust you to make the best decision”.
14:47 Interesting. So now, did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
14:58 I wouldn’t say that anyone intentionally tried to make me feel discriminated against. I believe most discrimination we see is 75% unintentional and 25% intentional. It is often a nature verses nurture situation. A lot of people are brought up to think a certain way, operate a certain way, and create ill feelings about certain things we experience in life, including the people we encounter. This is not an excuse but more so a possible explanation. We yearn for reasons for most actions so having an understanding might provide clarity, a certain satisfaction. Some people are the way they are because they enjoy hate. So, maybe intentional isn’t the right word.
16:16 Interesting perspective. So, if not intentional, what word would you use instead?
16:24 I think stating that sometimes it’s a learned behavior based upon your upbringing, identity and generalized experiences. If you’re raised to hate those who don’t look like you, that tends to be your state of mind further into life. It is possible to change your way of thinking. Some people who were raised by naïve individuals, enter new spaces, such as the college atmosphere and meet others who open their eyes and educate them. It all depends. However, I also grew up in a time period were upright disrespect was normalized but luckily, I lived in a predominately Black city, so the issues I knew of were projected on television and the radio.
17:58 Okay. Now next, how did you address the experience?
18:08 Well I try to not address issues with words. I prefer situations to seem less confrontational, even when I’m offended. If completely needed, as the executive, I must say something. Of course, in the right manner. Most of the time, when doubt is in the air, I prove myself, address the issue at hand with my work and efforts.
18:40 And do you believe addressing with your work effort verses words has helped?
18:54 Thus far, I’ve used both strategies here and there and it is situational. Sometimes, being the stern Black woman needed to happen to get business done. At times, I noticed when stupidity was more so an accident, so I turned
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the moment into a lesson to be learned. Being older, was my advantage in my executive position.
19:40 How so?
19:44 What do you mean?
19:49 How was being older in an executive position an advantage?
19:56 Well what one thing your parents always told you to do when it pertains to older people?
20:10 Say yes ma’am, no ma’am?
20:15 Nope, take one more guess.
20:19 Respect my elders?
20:24 Yes ma’am. Respect your elders.
20:28 Oh okay. I knew that. So, next question is at the time of the discrimination, did you feel as if your thoughts, experiences and feelings were dismissed?
20:44 I wouldn’t say my feelings or thoughts were being dismissed. I’ve never truly felt dismissed before, but maybe that’s just my character. Other’s opinions have only pushed me towards success for the most part, even when doubting my abilities. Discrimination and general disbelief are my fuel to prove others wrong, which ultimately led me to a head leadership position where I educate others on how to keep our company growing and successful in the end. I do though subliminally dismiss their thoughts if anything.
21:32 Hmm, how so?
21:37 Well, when it comes to what they originally felt about me, I subconsciously and through my techniques dismiss their predispositions. I do this with my knowledge and now 15 plus years of experience.
21:57 Okay. So, during that time, have you experienced discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation.
22:07 Ummm… I’ve only experienced discrimination once when I first started my career. I can say since that first incident; I am definitely respected more. In addition, I never engage in negativity. During my first encounter of discrimination, as stated, I would rather prove them wrong with my results, never through my words.
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22:48 And do you mind giving a little detail about the first incident or an incident in particular?
22:57 Let’s just say, in the very beginning of my career, someone complained about my strategies to my boss and through investigation, it was found that the individual was complaining about all employees of color. It wasn’t for certain until a remark slipped while talking to someone, they thought they trusted, calling women the b-word while saying they need to be “at home cooking for their husbands” and in reference to me, they stated that “no one wants to deal with a sassy Black woman”. Shock wasn’t the world at this point. I couldn’t wait to tell family and friends or Facebook. I was so furious that a picture was depicted of me based off how I look. No one knew I was sassy; it was all an assumption.
24:03 Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. So now, how did you typically navigate these communication encounters?
24:17 I would typically keep my composure first and respect those around me, so that the situation doesn’t escalate based upon how I react. Even if respect isn’t reciprocated, I try my best to still maintain that respect for others. Once I am calm, I have to think of the proper order to handle it, meaning is it something in my jurisdiction. Most of the time it is and when it’s not, I have a protocol folder for that.
25:02 Understood. So next question is would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
25:16 I would definitely say I have been resilient throughout my career. Whenever I was thrown an obstacle, I wouldn’t let it break me and more importantly not let it break the company. Yes, a personal issue may come up in the work atmosphere but there is a time and place for everything. I have to maintain my exterior while in the role of being a C-suite executive. I think if I was to show another side of me, some way views it as weakness so I would try to attack an obstacle head on and work my way through it with my team. The success of the company matters along with my resilience, so I have to keep going to get the job done. This is where a balance is applied to being executive.
26:28 And what balance do you speak of in particular?
26:36 The balance of knowing your breaking point, the balance of knowing how much resilience is built up, and even the balance of knowing yourself and work self. Those are sometimes two different people without viewing it as code shifting. It’s more so a shift in your identitiy and role, wearing different hats; mom hat, sister hat, wife hat, C-suite executive hat, so on.
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27:16 Okay good. Thank you and next, what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
27:31 Visual and verbal communication have really helped me. Visual meaning, I never allow someone to see me sweat as they say, so I hold my composure in order to develop my resiliency. I hold it on the outside, similar to the idea of looking good makes you feel good. Just like I put on different hats, I put on different faces or mask shall we say. Pertaining to verbal communication, I enjoy verbal affirmations from podcast, spoken work, oh and this new feature I established on my Bible app. It allows you to read the scriptures outside. Positive self-talk is all, and all needed for multiple reasons. Being your biggest encouragement is needed through resilience but communicating can in general could make a huge difference.
28:48 And with that being said, how do you define resiliency?
28:55 Resilience to me is the ability to bounce back, even at your lowest moments and darkest times. This doesn’t mean it’s easy or hard though. It’s just a chance to showcase your true strength and abilities that you possess. You get a moment to be that role model and mentor you referred to in your younger days.
29:25 And is resilience necessary for African American woman C-suite executives?
29:34 I believe resilience is necessary if you happen to be put in a situation similar to mine when I first started my career. This position is not for the weak minded at all. You have to be strong, think fast on your feet, and work quickly. If not, you will not be able to properly function and get through a complete work day.
30:14 But specifically, is it necessary for African American women in C-suite executive positions?
30:23 Yes. We are typically last to be chosen for a field. Never forget the endurance that got you to the position you are and continue to fight on, which isn’t new. Black women have been resilient forever so its embedded in our DNA at this point, in my opinion.
30:49 And, what coping mechanism have you used to adapt to the workplace?
30:58 I don’t use any coping mechanisms or never truly think of it is as coping. I come to work and do my job. I wouldn’t want to work somewhere where I have to cope with my work environment. That sounds dissatisfying
31:19 That’s an interesting point that you bring up. Thank you.
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31:30 Oh, no problem.
31:34 So, almost finished. If you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
31:53 A metaphor I would use is, I guess, would be this position is, or was a rollercoaster. Life doesn’t get easier, but it doesn’t become more manageable. Some day’s you’re up and other days can be down but there is always a beginning and end. There are loops, hills with the greatest obstacles waiting for you, but it’s possible. You have to make sure you have the proper tools to make it to the end and at the end of that roller coaster it holds nothing but success. You did it! You made it to the dock where you either try another adventure being another ride or opportunity or you can re-ride the ride. Hopefully that made sense.
32:50 Yes, it does, thank you. Now last question and if you have following remarks you can add them. What advice would you give another African American C- suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
33:14 Hmmm…. the best advice that I could give another C-suite executive is use those microaggressions as a lesson learned and a building mechanism. I may not cope but I know coping works for other. Also don’t let those obstacles get in the way of any goal, long or short. Don’t let it deter you or make you feel less than. Ensure that you prove them wrong, make them see you and hear you. Them being the discriminatory folks. Only you can stop you, not their words. They may hurt or disturb your ease at the time, but as Black women our resilience is nothing new. Our ancestors prepared us for these moments. They will keep preparing us as well.
34:06 Okay well that was great. Thank you for coming out.
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00:02 Okay, so thank you for sparing time for this interview. I truly appreciate it.
00:11 Oh no problem. I’m happy I could be of assistance to your project.
00:20 Alright so before we start the interview, I want to go over a few things. I will make sure that your identitiy is kept confidential. This interview is a space of complete honesty and I want to make sure you are comfortable. For the study, I’ll be giving you a pseudonym which is just a fake name, something I just make up, choosing at random. In addition, there will be no information released about where you work. You’re allowed to be as open as needed and if you want to refer to specific situations at your current or past workplace, I will ensure this information is blocked out of the data. I will be asking for your job title specifically and there is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from your interview to back up any of the assumptions I’ve made in my thesis but again, no one will know it’s you unless you specifically said so. Sound okay to you?
01:41 Okay sounds good to me.
01:47 Okay and another disclaimer. I know that depending on your experience, it could have been traumatic and reliving trauma can be detrimental. So, I am hoping this conversation doesn’t bring up an experience that was once damaging mentally or emotionally. If so let me know. Sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings and I wanted to acknowledge that. So, at any time if you want to stop the interview, want to take a quick break from the questions or want to skip a question, for any reason, please let me know and I’ll do just that. No questions asked. Again, this is your interview and I want to ensure you’re comfortable.
02:44 Okay sounds like a plan and I will do exactly that.
02:53 Okay so first, let’s have you state your name and job title.
03:05 Alright. I am ______and I was the Chief Information Security Officer of a local mental health center.
03:15 And what are you up to these days?
03:21 Well writing books, visiting other offices for workshops or visiting campuses and book stores to spread the knowledge of a Black executive.
03:38 Sounds like the good life.
03:43 Yeah, I’m truly enjoying myself. Very grateful. 177
03:50 Okay great. So, tell me a little about your upbringing.
04:02 Well, I was raised with my mother, my sister whom I have the same father with, and my two half-sisters whom have the same father. My biological father did not live in the same state and I didn’t see him very often as a child, but my stepfather never made a difference between me and his biological children which was always a worry of my mothers. I never felt that I was loved or treated any differently which is a true blessing. That doesn’t happen for everyone. It was a home full of love and support at all times and with both of my parents working fulltime jobs, money was still scarce. Also being the oldest meant that a lot of responsibility fell on me. So much pressure yes, but I think I got used to it. My parents never met a stranger and we always had someone living with us that had nowhere to go or was down on their luck. This is why I believe I am so selfless now. My parents always wanted us to know that family is important and if we can help someone that we should. God would repay us in the long run if they couldn’t.
05:37 Okay. So, what things installed in your life have guided your success?
05:46 The biggest factor would be religion and faith in general. I was always taught to put God first. My mother was Catholic, and my father was Baptist so definitely a blended family. We did not go to church every Sunday, but God and religion was definitely a constant presence in our daily lives. We prayed over every meal and even when entering the master bedroom, had to bless ourselves with holy water. This tradition followed when my siblings and I had children as well. Oh, and throughout my childhood, I was encouraged to tithe, serve our community and give back to others. My parents encouraged me to strive to be the best that I can be in any and all situations and I was always taught to treat others the way that I would want them to treat me; with dignity, respect and fairness. They wanted me to be more successful than they were in my spiritual, professional and personal life. My dad was an Army veteran, as in my step dad, and he encouraged me to either go to the military or college, so I did just that. I knew that they were unable to afford to send me to college and I was unable to obtain scholarships, so I went into the military. The Army was the best decision that I could have made, and it has changed my life. Again, being able to give back in some way.
07:17 So how did you get into your current position? Like following the military, how did you transition into the workplace? And could you describe your
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experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position. I know that you are currently retired.
07:41 Yes. So, following active duty, I found myself working for the Department of Veterans Affairs, dealing with disability cases and more. You run into so many people with far worse experiences and sometimes an overlap. There was a lot of veterans suffering from PTSD and later my step daughter was in the same positions after being drafted to Iraq. After a few years of experience in the office, I found a corporate position that had great benefits for veterans. After slowly being promoted, which was frustrating because in my mind I deserved it after serving our country, I knew patience was the key and just waited for my moment to shine. So later, maybe after about 15 years, I found the CISO executive position at a mental health center here in Cincinnati and have jumped around different C-suite positions prior to the position and now recently retiring. And what was the follow up question?
09:12 It was “describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position”. I know that you are currently retired so just base it off of the most previous position being the CISO.
09:36 Oh okay. Well, my experience as an African American woman in an executive position was stressful but worthwhile. When I was first promoted to the CISO position, I was very apprehensive about what to expect from my peers and employees. I had spoken to other women of color in similar positions and listened to their horror stories about how they felt as though they were being sabotaged, disrespected and disregarded in their positions. As I listened to these stories, I said to myself that it can’t be that bad, but I was wrong, and it was. When I started, I decided not to make any immediate changes. I blame myself because I was frightful in possibly being branded as too pushy or too bossy. My own fear of how others may perceive me is what kept me in a box of comfortability and ultimately slacking on my duties. I carry the weight of program managing, strengthening data loss and fraud prevention and securing cyber intelligence amongst a million other things. I believed a slow transitioned into the company was best for myself as well as others, but quickly learned there was no time to waste. This leading charge of change did not sit well with many employees who were employed with the company longer than myself; I believe they were content with the current software and might have expected more power at this stage in their life. Quickly, it seems as if my self-assured and confident attitude while convincing my team to follow my lead to success backfired, as many employees made complaints. I was told that one employee stated, “I don’t believe the new CISO is meant for this position. She is taking advantage of her power and needs to work on her attitude, including how she talks to us.” Another remark made was along the words of, “______is rubbing a lot of us the wrong way with her attitude. She’s been very forceful with her ideas”. Essentially, the stereotype I
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was hoping to avoid, still found me after hindering myself for the comfortability of others.
11:56 Wow, so how long did it take for your changes to be implemented?
12:04 Being that changes needed to happen fast; I would say less than 3 months, but the goal was to ensure that I did not start off on the wrong foot. All employees were given the proper tools, reasoning and time to adjust. I did not expect perfection, but I did expect effort.
12:18 Understandable. So why do you think this happen? You said you were trying to avoid a specific stereotype and still was labeled that. How do you think that happened?
12:32 Well, if I’m acting as a boss with confidence, a firm mentality, with a hint of being assertive, I’m quickly labeled as bossy, or too mean, or the b-word but a man, who carries the same courage and intensity, will be labeled as a competent or a trailblazer . Our demeanors can be so similar but still seen as so different. We are not respected the same even when holding the same titles.
13:10 Okay. So, this leads to my next question, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? And how was it communicated to you?
13:27 Yes, I believe I have experienced discrimination in the workplace in different altitudes. I was passed over for a specific position a long time ago and when I inquired about my ranking during the interview, I was given reasons that suggested I was the most qualified on paper. Even though after my interview it was determined I was not a good fit for what they wanted. I asked for clarification and was told that upper management decided to go with another applicant that had more experience and my previous years of experience were not as substantial as the applicant that was selected because the customer base was not as large. It mainly sounded like excuses.
14:16 Why do you say that?
14:21 Well my experience leveled to about 5 or more years with the company and the person also interviewing had never worked with the company or a sister company. I knew the specific atmosphere better.
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14:40 Was this for the CISO position?
14:47 No, one of the many positions I applied for beforehand.
14:58 Oh Okay, and did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
15:11 Yes, I did. I still believe it was. The other’s applicants experience was not more extensive than mine and I believe they wanted the other applicant because he was friends with one of the managers on the board that reviewed the applications. So, the discrimination of this situation was based off status and more so, who you know rather than what you know. I know that happens in a lot of cases, but I was mostly hurt at the time. I had given the company so much of my time, so it felt like a slap in the face.
15:52 I can understand that.
15:57 And did I mention the supervisor told me I should apply? He made it seem like they were already considering me, so I thought I had the advantage. Joke was on me.
16:14 Oh wow. That’s crazy. So how did you address the experience?
16:27 I just had to pray about it and know that what God had for me is for me. I just knew something better would come even if I couldn’t see it right then and there. That early faith installed in my life by my parents, mainly my mother, just stayed with me. I had to hold on my faith if I wanted to keep job searching while keeping the current job. Little did I know; I was later able to obtain a better position in a different company and a company I didn’t even think about. It wasn’t even on my radar because technically I wasn’t qualified. In my interview, they said the same thing but sometimes it’s about the things not seen on paper. After a 45-minute conversation they were sold.
17:36 Well that’s great something worked out.
17:42 Yes. God rest my mother’s soul; she always knew God would show up. And to think about it, I believe it was the company the running mate use to work at. Funny how life comes in a full circle.
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18:03 Understandable and most definitely. So next, did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings?
18:20 Yes, absolutely and I tried not to take it personally, but I felt like I was living in the “good ole boy” system. It’s disappointing. It’s an experience that can shatter your spirit honestly, especially when you know you did your best. I was shocked and then humbled by this experience. I might have actually needed that now that I think about it. To be humbled and reminded that there is always room for growth. I may have been in a space of settling and didn’t know it. I never considered it would happen to me as well because I always did what I was asked of and volunteered for things when I didn’t really want to. It sound’s terrible but I believe they had me wrapped around their finger because I thought it would help management realize that I am capable of taking on other tasks. But as you can see, the dismissing eventually stopped but it definitely happened.
19:43 Can you give a little bit more information about the “good ole boy” system?
19:52 Yes, I can try. It’s mainly just a male dominant system, most likely white dominated as well where you have to play into their orders and do as they say. It’s all about satisfying them in order to receive a good outcome, usually promotion or recognition.
20:13 Does that still exist, or do you think it does?
20:22 To an extent yes but we so many people of color, those a part of the LGBTQ community and so on, bringing barriers so it is now a faded system. Well, I would think it is.
22:38 Okay, and have you experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation.
20:49 No, I haven’t thankfully. Again, I have only heard those horror stories of fellow executives at the time being harassed by white men or being called out their name but most of what I’ve experienced seems to be subtle comments made throughout my career. Nothing that specifically stands out as of now.
21:26 Alright. And the times you did experience the discrimination, how did you navigate these communication encounters?
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21:35 I maintained my professionalism and that’s it. Can’t do much of anything else without being labeled crazy, angry, dramatic and so on. It was a position for a company I was already working for, but I just thought they had finally seen my worth after working there for so long. Well longer than my counterpart. All in all, I never let them see that it was a setback, and I personally knew it wouldn’t prevent me from moving forward. I couldn’t give up. I went on to realize my contributions to the company were not being appreciated and it was time to move on to something bigger and better. God showed up exactly when I needed him to. I worked on improving my resume and my interview techniques after I did not receive that job and was able to obtain employment in a new company that eventually led to a passionate career focusing on mental health but also IT management. So, it’s all about turning a negative into a positive.
22:52 Is this the testimony you typically share with people as well?
23:00 Yes, for the most part. I try to be as honest and transparent for those genuinely asking about my experience.
23:13 That’s amazing. And leading to the next question, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
23:27 Absolutely. Yes, I have. From the promotions that passed me up, to the system of male and white dominance, to dedicating years and years to companies that didn’t appreciate me, was only possible because of the resiliency I withhold. This is how my faith never loses me either. I’m now retired so I can only share my experience, but I make sure I install these same ideas in those who are pushing for corporate life.
24:12 Alright. So, what communication strategies have you used in developing the resilience you speak of?
24:24 I think I just try to look at my previous experiences and learn from them. I specifically mentioned that I strengthened my resume and gained more techniques for the next interview. It’s all about bettering yourself if you want your resilience to be seen or stand tall. I’ve have learned to also be flexible because things can change rapidly. If you don’t pay attention to how those around you operate or what values align with companies, you will be seen as washed up and will be passed up easily. So, like I did, I suggest trying to stay connected to people that are striving to achieve similar goals, taking action
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when necessary and having a sense of purpose. Attempt to find mentors and network as much as possible in person and media. If your go to is media, make sure your presence is a good one meaning updated pages and profiles or conducting yourself in a professional manner.
25:51 Okay great. Did you care much about social media while working as a CISO?
26:06 Not really. I didn’t need it until later in my career and now I operate much of my Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook. I do a lot of self-motivation for my community and executives in general. My book I’ve written most recently focuses on leadership, so I spend much time spreading that knowledge.
26:35 That’s amazing.
26:40 Thank you but trust, I never expected be to here.
26:47 I could only imagine. So, I know we’ve talked a lot about resiliency, but can you define it in your own words?
27:03 Yes. I believe it’s the ability to recover quickly from situations that may be difficult or tough. You can either say recover, get back up, bounce back from defeat, but they all refer back to the idea of regrouping regardless of the situation.
27:25 And is resilience specifically necessary for African American woman C-suites executives?
27:36 Oh yes. It absolutely is because we are labeled as angry Black women before we walk in the door. Before we are met by everyone in the office or room, rumors begin. Assumptions are created. As a C-suites executive we must be stern, able to lead and handle whatever comes our way. If we are not resilient, we are on a path of failure.
28:05 And why failure?
28:10 Because it’s all a game. We have a hierarchy system for a reason. Teams are purposeful and positions are given a task for a reason. Without resiliency, we can fail at our personal task and that carries more weight that someone with a similar position but only dealing with one binary.
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28:38 Okay. So, what coping mechanisms have you used to adapt to the workplace?
28:49 Learning how to use more problem-solving techniques, relaxing, humor and adjusting my expectations from others. All in one. Problem solving is something I learned and adapted early on, but it just comes with responsibilities given. I was typically always in positions of power, so I needed to solve faster than ever, just in case employees fell short. With relaxing, I think that is more for emotional and mental support. I can’t take on every burden or I will burn myself out. I have to stay calm about some things because I can’t solve everything. Humor is the same way. I have to be able to laugh at some situations to keep from crying or keep from expressing unneeded anger. Oh, and adjusting, the idea of being flexible. All needed to be resilient.
30:04 And next my creative question.
30:10 Oh, can’t wait to hear it.
30:17 If you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
30:29 Interesting. Maybe this will work? I’ve always said that the answer to the problem was just a band-aid, not a solution. Simple but powerful. If you need to rip it off fast to get over the pulling of the hair, do that. Just don’t neglect the wound. Does that make sense?
30:53 Yes, it does. Thank you.
30:58 No problem.
31:03 Alright last but not least, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with racial microaggressions in the workplace?
31:23 Hmm. Make sure you surround yourself with people that will be honest with you and support you. It’s too many phony people out there to not have some folks to rely on. Without my support system, I’m not sure where I would be in all honesty. Next don’t rush to judgment. Not all white people are out to watch your fail. Sometimes, your own kind is the one who betrays you. It’s all about general careful selection though. You just never know who has your
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best interest so choose wisely who deserve to be in your inner circle. Last, make sure that you look at the whole picture before making any decisions. This could be decisions just in the workplace or in other spaces. Just set a wide perspective and consider all options and views. It’ll help as you grow in the corporate world.
32:42 Alright, well that’s all I have. Thank you!
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00:01 Alrighty. So, first before we get started, let’s go over a few things and of course, I want to say thank you again for volunteering to do this interview. It means a lot!
00:14 No problem at all Rockia.
00:20 Okay. So, before we get started, I wanted to basically go over information I have already previously told you about but wanted to reiterate for this recording. To keep your experiences confidential, you will be given a fake name on all paper work, which we refer to as a pseudonym. For this study, there will be no information revealed about where exactly you work. This allows you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current or past job. There is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from this interview to back up any of the assumptions I make in my study but again, no one will know it’s you unless you were to release that information.
01:15 Okay perfect.
01:18 And next, I want to provide a disclaimer, that may not be needed. I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Situations can be triggering and sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. So, at any time, if you want to stop the interview, need a break from the questions or want me to skip a question, for whatever reason, please let me know. I do not mind.
02:02 Okay sounds fine.
02:07 Okay, so let’s start with you stating your name and your job title
02:19 Well I’m ______and I serve as the Chief Strategy Officer of a large private funded nonprofit.
02:31 Okay great. So briefly talk about your upbringing. You can include as much or less details as you please.
02:43 Well I grew up in the military lifestyle. I’ve lived in Germany, Texas, North Carolina, Kentucky and now Ohio so I am not shy from traveling and mainly adjusting. I grew up in a middle-class family obviously, with both of my parents and an older brother so most of my friends stated I have the normal family, meaning not too many siblings and my parents were and still are together. I thought it was normal though but anyways, being able to move around allowed me access to diverse environments with people who varied in culture, race, language, and status. As a child, this triggered much of my
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interest and again I was able to adapt to different environments. This was mainly important because in most spaces I was the only Black person or Black girl, so blending in was difficult or not much of a factor. Umm, I can also willingly say I was spoiled growing up and had parents that have done a lot for me, but I want to state that being spoiled doesn’t mean I haven’t experienced my own personal struggles. Even though I didn’t have to worry about money, the absence of my parents affected my mentality and emotions in the long run. Overall, again my childhood was a blessed one. I started emerging into adulthood and knew I needed to be successful so I can continue to live the comfortable lifestyle I have always lived.
04:33 Okay. So, when you say comfortable, what are you referring to?
04:41 Mainly finances. I was able to experience traveling at an early age, even international and many people grow old not even owning a Passport.
04:49 So, did the stability of your childhood financially outweigh the stability of your relationship with your parents?
05:10 Not at all but I do believe my parents were blinded by material things and at times neglected the love and support I needed. They viewed my life as privileged because I would see their success and that’s it.
05:27 So, with that being said, what things installed in your life have guided your success today or even leading up to today?
05:37 Along with my upbringing, I’ve always observed my dad’s success which guided me. He worked hard, not to say my mother didn’t, I just believe as a daddy’s girl, I cherish more of his sacrifices. He wasn’t the most educated because he entered the military following high school, but he was practical and always focused on providing for his family. I tend to tell my children he was the perfect example of what a man should be, so I took some of his greatest qualities and installed them in my actions through life while also hoping my potential husband carried the same qualities, which he does. Something also installed in my life was having faith in the Lord. I am a strong believer in God and always felt that with hard work and prayer, things will fall into place whether it was originally a part of the plan you had intended or not, or should I say part of God’s intended plan. My parents planted that seed of holding on to my Christian views and is bloomed into a foundation that helped me discover the woman I wanted to be in the long run; as a friend, as
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a daughter, as a mother, as a wife, and an executive. I’ve been told you have to make sacrifices to receive blessings. In a sense, have to be vulnerable with God and I’ve done that and will continue to do that.
07:12 Okay. Thank you for that insight. So now, can you describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position?
07:28 Well first, you have to be careful who you talk to and the things you say. You can’t trust everyone no matter how nice they seem or how helpful they are in the beginning. You have to be on you’re A game at all times and honestly, I would keep my guard up to an extent. I guess you could call it being hypervigilant. I say all this based off my experience and what I have seen in different positions and different offices before entering the nonprofit world, which can also be untrustworthy. I’ve also seen many people question your status and position which feels like you always have to prove yourself. This goes for most women I’ve seen with power and people of color. Being a Black woman in power you can’t show any type of emotion, meaning the emotions that may turn the clients or your peers and employees off. So, you’re very limited to expressing happiness and nurturing qualities because the moment you’re upset, you install fear in people. It happens for white women too, limiting your emotions, which comes off as the ‘b-word’ for most white men but for the most part Black women are seen as angry and the ‘b-word’ if they show any emotions others don’t agree with. Black women have to consistently overthink how friendly they should be just to avoid the angry Black woman trope. It’s a lot honestly. Now white men, they get a pass. They get a pass to be angry or irate and make as much of a spectacle as they want. We live in a society where you can’t be too upset or too assertive without getting judged honestly. You have to pay close attention to the things you say, how you said it, the way you speak, and even the way you present yourself, from your dress attire or to your nails and hair. I’ve had colleagues question me on the professionalism of the color of my nails to “do you think that’s an appropriate hair style?” My response is yes and are you paying the bill? Oh, and if someone jabs at your character or ability you have to take it and address it in a manner that the other person doesn’t feel attacked, even if they are the ones attacking. It’s even difficult to explain. It really comes down to mind over matter, by needing to be able to count ten while also processing and preparing for the next moment all in the matter of seconds. Doing all these things for the purpose to withhold a certain reputation. It’s a shame. So many people want to see you fail, honestly and truly. Unfair but one thing my other always told me is life isn’t fair. We can’t do the same thing our white counterparts do. That’s life unfortunately.
11:22 Wow, that’s a lot. Does it ever like it gets easier?
11:33 What exactly? 189
11:37 Trying to balance all those factors. Does it seem to get easier?
11:26 No. Easier isn’t how I would describe it, but more so you adapt or give up.
11:55 Interesting. So, to lead into our next question, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? How was it communicated to you?
12:11 Oh yes. It probably sounded like I was hinting at it, didn’t it?
12:18 I don’t want to assume. This is just the order of the questions but if you have, can you further explain to whatever extent you prefer?
12:31 That’s fine. So, I’ve experienced someone not trusting my judgment or authority based on my appearance and age, but I’ve never acknowledged it as discrimination, which could be naïve of me. An experience that stands out to me, reflects the sneaky culture in the workplace. As the CSO, I manage the initiatives and market opportunities that best support the company’s strategies, short and long term. This typically includes restricting, joint ventures, investments, and so on. Within my first few months of my position, I submitted a proposal for 3-5-year perspective, and suggestions to the current 1-3 short term strategy. My team questioned my ideas multiple times and the comment I remember most was, “Are you sure you’re not overestimating the expected outcomes? It seems unobtainable.” I was shocked that this woman, woman of color at that, had not faith in me so I’m not sure exactly how I handles it, but I do know I responded saying something like, “I got this. Just try me. I’m here for a reason”. I’ve also learned on several occasions that I have had to do work that my white coworkers haven’t and wondered why. I think once I discovered this, was more when I became more alert. Oh, and I’ve also been passed over for promotions and opportunities that the white male counterparts have gotten without explanations most of the time. It’s not overt or anything, just very subtle so I’ve never went on a rampage to state I’m being discriminated against. Looking young, at the time, and being Black and woman, others don’t want to take you seriously anyways so the moment I complained, maybe even went to HR I probably would have been ignored. One issue that always bothered me, and soon after I wish I did more, was someone mistake me as a custodian, even with business casual clothes on. They proceeded to tell me to empty the trash and another incident, maybe my first week in my current position, was being directed to refill the toilet paper in the bathroom. In both situations I just politely told them I’m not the custodian and proceeded to tell them who I was and directed them to complete a task, but there have also been times when I directed someone with a task, and they wouldn’t complete it unless someone else told them. Undermining my authority or assuming I’m less ranked than what I am has been the main issue of discrimination.
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14:56 Wow. I’m sorry to hear that.
15:03 It’s fine. I believe I got the last laugh.
15:11 How so?
15:13 Well, eventually those individuals were fired, and I had a promotion approaching. Life goes on.
15:25 Okay. So, next question, did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
15:34 I think it just depends. There are times when I have to realize that it is in their subconscious so it may be unintentional but other times, I feel that it is intentional. There is a specific purpose to belittle me. Even addressing these issues, most of the time the agitator or offensive person will not admit to their intent so if they don’t, the situations relies on perspective and proof.
16:10 Okay and how exactly did you address the experience? Outside of what you’ve already mentioned.
16:20 I would always question them and ask things like what do you mean? Why do you feel like that? Why did you ask me that? Or ask them what they were trying to insinuate. I seek for clarity just to ensure I understand the situation to the best ability. Then, based off their answers, I would try to give it time to how they articulated their message communicated and then decide on my response. I would also present them with facts. Nothing outside of that was needed for the conversation or interaction. I would do my own investigation and find evidence of coworkers engaging in behaviors that could be considered discriminatory or even similar experiences. There are also times I just processed everything mentally noted the character of some people. Not everything needs to be addressed. I advocate when needed.
17:41 Okay. So next, did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings?
17:53 Dismissed? No but I do believe it has definitely changed the way I view most white people in the workplace. It’s made me less trusting of them because of multiple situations that lacked authenticity and genuineness. So, maybe we
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can say it dismissed my ability to feel complete comfort in my own work space. A space that is supposed to be inclusive and equal. Most of the time, based off my experience, they don’t want to see you as their boss let alone be successful. The smallest mistakes can easily be taken and run with. You have to be extremely careful and monitor yourself and those around you because you can be dismissed at any time. It’s very possible.
18:44 Do you feel like you’re in a more comfortable space now?
18:51 Yes. It just took a lot of time, self-reflecting, understanding others, and growth.
18:59 Okay. So next question, have you experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation.
19:12 Nothing in particular, just similar to what I’ve already stated. So yes, I’ve definitely experienced it more than once, again reiterated the different occurrences.
19:28 And how did you navigate these communication encounters?
19:34 I feel like these questions overlap, am I overthinking this?
19:41 Some questions may feel that way, but they serve different purposes. If needed, I can repeat the question.
19:52 No that’s fine. So, I just ask questions to clarify their offensive actions and try my best to consciously decide their intentions or their purpose and proceed from there, while remembering my status. I have to remember I am in charge in most cases, so this is why I don’t entertain all ignorance. I have to be mindful that there some things that happen unintentionally, so I give employees benefit of the doubt but also, I am there to do a job not babysit and correct every characteristic. Overall, I would try to express how I felt about the situation, be assertive and pay attention to their reactions and responses to my comments. The purpose of conversations is to install a lesson to be learned and creation a solution.
20:57 And based on the journey you’ve partaken throughout your career; would you say that you have been resilient?
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21:09 Yes, I have. I needed to be and anyone in similar positions needs to be. It is important and helps you maintain a calm sense of mind or spirit. I’ve learned from my family and other Black female professionals that it’s a requirement for this type of work. I also highly suggest making sure you have mentors to lean on. These mentors don’t have to be in the exact position you are in or look just like you, but it would be easier for you to choose some you identify with in some way. You must also trust them and trust they have your best interest in mind. My mentors have helped me to stay grounded and navigate this space. They have also helped me pick up the pieces at times when I wanted to throw my whole career away. One mentor works for another nonprofit in a similar executive position, but another mentor is a past professor who is also a Black woman and hooked me with her research interest.
22:39 Okay. So earlier in the interview, you mentioned adapting when I asked about it ‘getting easier’. Do you remember that part?
22:52 Yes briefly. What about it?
22:58 Well would you said resiliency has something to do with that or no?
23:08 Yes. I think it goes hand in hand. I believe you asked about my experience and asked does the balance get easier. I stated easier isn’t the word, but you adapt, and in order to do that you must have some resiliency built up and installed. Not sure how you adapt without it. Unlike animals, we aren’t automatically knowledgeable about adapting. We make that conscious decision to not give up.
23:51 Thank you. I think I have a few more questions and then we’ll be finished. Sound good?
24:02 Yep. What’s next?
24:08 Next is what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
24:17 Just to stop and think before responding. Listening skills is needed, even if its listening to the person in your head. Impulsive decisions are not needed in this field or in an executive position unless plenty of thought and research has went into the decision being made. It is so important…let me repeat this.
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It is so important to regroup. Once you regroup, you can create calm, collective responses. Then, follow with clarifying questions if needed as well. Again, thing’s I’ve mentioned so hopefully I don’t sound scripted.
25:11 No, you’re fine. If that is an important factor, I want to know that. This is your experience and your thoughts.
25:20 Alright then.
25:23 Okay so now, in your own words, how do you define resiliency?
25:32 Much of what I discuss honestly but to be more specific, I believe resiliency is what enables us to develop mechanisms for protection against experiences. Experiences that can be extremely overwhelming. It’s something that helps us maintain balance in our lives during difficult and stressful periods. This is what helps us bounce back.
26:08 Do the experiences have to be overwhelming?
26:17 No not at all but they cannot be neglected either. The most important factor of resilience is the mechanisms that come with it. How do you manage? Adapting is a way. Some people turn to God. Again, have to make a choice to keep going in the end if you want to be resilient.
26:45 And is resilience necessary for African American woman C-suite executives?
26:55 Very necessary! Based upon the things I’ve stated, no way to do this job without a resilient mindset. We have to uphold ourselves to a certain standard as the boss of our department, whatever it may be.
27:19 Do you have any coping mechanism to adapt in the workplace? If so, what are they?
27:31 Oh, I kind of went ahead, didn’t I?
27:39 No, it’s fine. You can say the same thing or expand or say something different.
27:48 Okay. Well. I’ve never viewed it as coping, but I guess it is in a sense. I choose to have a place to step aside and gather myself whether it’s my car or bathroom, even occasionally my office when its after hours. That’s how I
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manage. I also make sure there is someone I can trust to share these feelings I battle often. This reiterates the importance of mentors and support systems in general. Umm, and I make sure to take a break, different vacations small and big ones.
28:37 Okay. Almost finished. Next, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an African American woman C-suite executive, what would it be?
28:53 Wow. I’ve never been asked that. Can I get a minute to think?
29:03 Of course…. 29:23 Ready?
29:29 Yes, I think I got something. Be like a duck. Let the insults, shady comments and passive aggressiveness roll off your back like water on a duck. This meaning you shouldn’t let foolishness phase you in your growth and shining moments. Try to deflect all negativity to your best ability or you can look at it as get over it and move on.
30:00 Okay and last, what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive on how to cope with microaggressions in the workplace?
30:18 Don’t fly off the handle. Never let them see you angry or cry, save that when you’re behind closed doors in your personal space so they don’t view you as weak and emotional. Even when you’re just living in your truth, you’re at risk for being labeled so remember there is a time and place for everything. Handle things with a smile and grace but also be vocal. This comes with establishing that balance we discussed and more. Oh, and your voice and opinion matters. Don’t let anyone tell you different. Let them be intimidated by your Black girl magic at the end of the day.
31:21 And that’s a wrap. Thank you so much!
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00:01 Alrighty. So, before we get started, I want to go over a few things and of course, thank you again for volunteering to do this interview.
00:14 No problem at all. Glad I could help out.
00:21 And before we get started, I wanted to basically go over information I have already previously told you but wanted to reiterate. To keep your experiences confidential, you will be given a fake name, which we refer to as a pseudonym. For this study, there will be no information revealed about where exactly you work. This allows you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current or past job. There is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from this interview to back up any of the assumptions and claims I make in my study but again, no one will know it’s you unless you were to release that information.
01:20 Okay, that’s fine.
01:24 And next, I want to provide a disclaimer. I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Situations can be triggering and sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. I’m not saying this will go there but just wanted to put it out there.
01:54 Okay, got it.
02:00 So first, could you introduce yourself and your current job title?
02:11 Yes. I’m ______and I am the Chief Marketing Officer in the sports industry.
02:18 Sounds interesting. Did you use to play sports or what?
02:26 Oh no never. I think maybe when I was younger, I was forced into a softball little league but even if so, that didn’t last long.
02:37 Wow. So why sports?
02:43 I’m honestly not sure. I wasn’t interested in sports in high school either. I went to a great university with a great athletic department and was already interested in graphic design and public relations so my freshman year, after attending all the football games and truly living in school spirit, I applied to an internship with the athletic department and the rest was history.
03:17 So, you were able to hold that internship throughout your undergraduate career?
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03:26 Yes, and luckily my responsibilities grew as well. What started off as just football coverage, turned into coverage of all teams in different seasons. Now, I work with the ______, which we know is a professional team, so I feel like I’ve living the dream.
03:49 Wow that’s amazing. So, what’s next? Well I most likely will be moving. I have an offer in Vegas and Charlotte, so I am deciding but let’s keep that between us.
04:11 Oh, gotcha. No problem! So now let me get back on track, let’s talk about your upbringing.
04:23 Like my childhood?
04:27 Yep. Exactly.
04:32 Okay. Well, I am the only child of my mother and father, but I was born into a large family. I grew up around lots of cousins and other family members that filled the void for not having a sibling or siblings and unlike all of my friends, I was raised by my grandparents, so I sort of kind of always had an old soul as people would say. My grandparents are very old fashion and I say very different from most households. My grand dad is Christian and attends a Baptist church while my grandmother is a Jehovah Witness. They have never forced religion on me, thankfully, but I do mostly identify with the Baptist community. Without getting into too much detail, I knew my parents, but they just weren’t fit to be parents. My mom has been diagnosed with a mental disorder and my dad might as well been diagnosed with something similar. Now, I have a more manageable relationship with the two, but I think the damage has been done. This can be seen as good and bad. So even though there were times when I hated living with my grandparents, I’m still very thankful for my unique upbringing. They taught me so much about life and myself. They are honestly my world and even though they will clown me for spending too much money or always traveling, I know that I’ve made them so proud. They don’t have to tell me either, I can just tell.
06:58 Thank you for your openness. I truly appreciate it. Mental health is a difficult conversation in general and in the Black community is typically difficult to accept so your braveness is very insightful.
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07:15 Of course, but know it took time. I’m almost 35 so the person you see didn’t happen overnight.
07:27 Understandable. So, with that being said, what things installed by your grandparents have guided your success? Or even the experiences with your parents or other family members?
07:41 I think the most important thing would be giving back to others and working hard. If you are able to do those two, you can pretty much make it through any struggle. I always promised that no matter where my career took me, volunteering and nonprofit work in general would be an important role in my life. I’m fortunate to have many things but that doesn’t mean my life has always been painted out for me. I had to fight for the position I’m in now. This is because of all my hard work and note, my grandparents were not highly educated. They were a product of a different time period where black people didn’t finish high school or even consider college. They were thinking of ways of survival, starting a family, and so on. I can say they also instilled patience within myself. This is not to say I am completely patient to this day, because I am an eager person, but I know success doesn’t happen overnight, same for growth. Being able to watch the tough times play out overall helped me with all these factors installed in my life. It may be the reason for my success overall, I’m not sure. I just know I’m blessed to have a support system that isn’t the norm. Who all can say that if their parents weren’t stable enough to raise them, that their grandparents would take on the burden? I doubt everyone. A lot of my friends from college lost their grandparents, while I never had the bond of a mother-daughter, father-daughter relationship. Even now, this bond hasn’t been established but I’ve came to terms with it.
10:12 I hear you completely. So, a combination of patience, hardworking mentality and actions, and giving back have guided your success? Anything else to add?
10:32 Umm, just holding on to the joy that I may have, even when little of it exist. This inspires my faith and optimism to shine.
10:49 Alrighty. So now can you describe your experience in the workplace as an African American woman in a C-suite executive position?
11:04 So much to say. Where should I start?
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11:13 Wherever you feel is comfortable.
11:20 Alright. So, there has been many times when I am the only Black woman in a meeting. It’s gotten to the point I would giggle to myself when I first entered the room. It’s not a funny situation just funny that I would think any different. There are times I am shocked and proven wrong though. When I see another Black person in a meeting that I didn’t expect, I’m internally jumping for joy. I just want to run to them and say thank you for choosing this profession but of course that’s not professional. So yeah, at times I’ve felt as if I was an outsider. It’s also a small number of Black women executives in this profession but there has been an increase in diversity. I do recall one of my first business meetings with nothing but white men. I felt so out of place especially being new to the “boys club”. Next thing that happen, which some people may not even be phased, was the entry of a Black custodian. All he was doing was getting the trash, but I was so happy, you wouldn’t believe it! Just to see another brown face became so important. This was the moment I said I would do all I can with my position to bring in more Black and brown faces. That summer, I started a minor internship program for undergraduate college students which was then adopted by the company. The executives I reported to saw the revenue and how beneficial it was and allowed it to continue. Now, the first 4 interns are either working for D1 universities in athletics and one is getting their masters while working with Florida’s athletic department.
13:35 Wow. That’s amazing. Congrats to you for establishing such a program.
13:42 Yeah it was my baby. I hope they are treating it well at ______, but anyways I got off tracked. I think I wanted to add a few things just about the work space you enter? I can’t fully remember.
13:59 That’s fine. Start back wherever makes sense.
14:07 Okay. Hmmm, well I know I am stating how lonely this field is but that isn’t to say there aren’t others who I identify with in this space. There have been plenty of professional women in the sport industry but to interact with them sometimes is a privilege. It just depends on your experience. I think I have become very immune to being bothered by the lack of diversity though. I attended a PWI, predominantly white institution, so that may be the reason. We had a Black community that seemed big at times but other times we felt really little and invisible. Microaggressions were a thing back then and I
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didn’t realize it and it’s still a thing as I grow in my field. It makes you feel like you don’t belong in a sense. Oh, and you just get so damn tired. Excuse my language but it’s just the honest truth. I am consistently asked about my hair, if someone can touch it and how I’m able to change it every other day. Why does it matter? No one ask you how you wear the same basic ponytails? Probably because we don’t care. Someone has honestly said, again in the beginning of my career, that my natural hair was distracting them from their creativity. I ran to HR so fast. It’s annoying but I also can’t forget the very strong sense of tokenism. I can tell when our PR team wants me to speak at an event or have a picture of me taken, simply because it shows that our company is diverse. You’re using me and I see it. There’d be times where they would ask me to speak at every diversity conference or speaking engagement. I’m like, am I the expert on diversity because I am Black? They would say no but they would definitely be thinking “Yeah, kind of”.
16:18 Interesting. Thank you for the details so now, my next question is, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? How was it communicated to you?
16:35 Wow I’m a talker. I probably should have just waited to see what your next question was.
16:44 No, you’re fine. Just answer to your best ability.
16:52 Okay. Well, not as often now that I hold a higher position. Starting off as an intern, more specific situations like people saying I only received the position because of the color of my skin was an issue. They would say the company was needing diversity, which could have been true, but I wasn’t going to accept that as the only reason I was here. I had a great resume and was talented so no one could take that from me. I also remember as an intern having to do tasks that my white intern counterparts didn’t have to go through or do. I would have conversations with other interns and their supervisors about the current workload and they would always look at me with surprise because they never had to do tasks that I had to. I found out they were basically taking advantage of me which could have been discriminatory but also because they were just assholes. I’m not sure but it didn’t faze me much. Since I’ve became the CMO, people are not as daring to question my resume, now that I make the decision if they have a job or not. I believe that my ranking in executive positions created a privilege of avoiding second guessing nature of my power. Oh, and again the hair comments were
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stuff I had to deal with, but it was mostly annoying explaining myself to people who would never understand.
18:38 Understandable. And did you feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
18:45 Definitely intentional. If somebody every thinks its unintentional, they are silly and mistaken. White people know what they are doing. Even Black men with power who belittle women, know what they’re doing. We are also talking about a different ball park than most work spaces. The sports- industry is a very cut-throat space and they try to break down others to see who can last. It’s superfast pace and its so many people to report to, just for minor task. Majority of things going on have an intent because it’s our job to make sure everything has purpose.
19:34 So, how did you address the experience?
19:39 I honestly didn’t really address it.
19:43 Why not?
19:46 In all honesty, I think it’s partly because I didn’t know how to. I started off very young in this field. I graduated ______and went straight to working for a professional team so I was the youngest in the room. I’m not soft-spoken, trust me, but I also feared what to say. I didn’t want to make myself look bad, I wasn’t trying to enter these spaces making enemies, I didn’t want to play into any of the million stereotypes; it’s just a lot to consider. What I knew to do was to work hard like I saw my grandparents taught me. That’s it. I would just ignore, continue to work hard, and hope that karma would come back around for any things done towards me with malicious intent. I was in this space to do my job and that’s all I signed up for. And I would tell myself to have confidence and believe that I am meant to be here because again, your sense of belonging is at risk. It’s crazy though, because in order to convince myself that it was worth it, I had to tell myself “they won’t regret me”. Positive affirmation like those and more have helped me thus far and gotten me to the leadership position I am in now.
21:34 When you say worth it, what do you mean?
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21:40 Worth the overthinking, being picked on or as you said discriminated against, being overworked and still looked at as less than, all those factors. Basically, is it worth my mental and emotional health.
21:57 And what have you decided?
22:02 Well like anything, you weigh the pros and cons and at the end of the day, my job makes me so happy. I wake up excited and the last thing on my mind is close minded individuals. So yes, working with the ______and making 50K plus a year is worth the hard moments in life.
22:22 I get that. So next, did you feel as if the discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and feelings?
22:31 It diminished my experiences and feelings to some extent but not completely. I would never let that happen. I thought at times that I wasn’t good enough. I would cry at home because I felt like I should find a different avenue. All these things that align with self-doubt were happening, and sometimes still does, but as long as I have this job in this field, I have to voice my opinion. Marketing is all about perspective and how you think something will be viewed so if someone doesn’t like my opinion, they better come with a good reason, proof and a better suggestion. Again, this is a competitive field. So yeah, I guarantee every person, or a nice handful of people have said something about the color of my skin or my gender, but I know that if we compared resumes, mine is better. I know that for a fact and it shows with the work that is given out and also in the way that we react to certain situations.
23:57 You sound very confident in that.
24:02 Yep. I’m an observant person so I would bet money that I’m right. Oh, and again I am the CMO and earned this position before people who have been with the company for a decade plus.
24:18 Well that’s great. And have you experienced this discrimination more than once? If so, describe another situation.
24:29 Hmm, so I don’t sound repetitive I can think of someone else and possibly more specific. I know that every time I send in a presentation, the facts are double checked but if my white counterparts did the same, it is just taken as
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correct. This position started off as a co-marketing officer and my colleague never needed a baby sister meaning his ideas were typically pushed with no assistance until one project ended his career. I started to realize he would sneak into my locked documents, stealing ideas or crafting them as his own. So, a trick from one of my comics came in hand.
25:15 What do you mean?
25:20 Listen to this. I think it’s still funny until this day. So, I created a fake marketing plan for a project coming up, completely offensive and racist. He presented it just as it is with his name in it, and I made a scene. I teared up about how dare he attack my womanhood and Blackness and followed with the actual plan I created and that day he was fired, and the company gave me a promotion that allowed me to create a diversity initiative as well. Always have to be the smartest person in the room.
26:01 Wow. I love it. Truly only see that in movies.
26:06 Yep and it just proved so much that I speculated. I am scrutinized harder. I brought that to my supervisors’ attention, that he’s took plenty of my ideas before and was given no feedback, but my ideas somehow always needed to be tweaked. At first, I felt bad because this incident happened in front of a client so parts of me was like “______, don’t do it. It’ll seem unprofessional and could make you look bad as well” but I figured it was now or never. If I wanted to be valued, I had to do something especially since my co-officer had embarrassed me at a meeting just months before. Karma.
27:08 Wow, Sorry to hear that but I guess you got the last laugh
27:15 Oh, it’s fine. As you can see, I’m doing better than expected. Each experience has been a valuable lesson for me. That has showed me that I can persevere through so much. It’s definitely been hard, but I wouldn’t trade these experiences for anything else. Everything happens for a reason.
27:36 True. So next question is how did you navigate these communication encounters?
27:47 In that particular situation from months before, he had previously embarrassed me by second guessing my stats, I just corrected him there and told him that it was proven by research done by different companies. We did
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a quick google search and it was resolved but I still was embarrassed. We also had a private meeting afterwards, where I told him that this was very unprofessional and will not happen again.
28:42 Wow, that’s so crazy.
28:47 Yeah, I know. That’s what white privilege looks like.
28:54 Interesting. Well now, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
29:04 Oh yes, I have to be resilient. I could have quit and went to another career with more payout, but I knew I wouldn’t be happy. You are just getting a glimpse of the terror of White men in this field, but the enemy could be anyone who wants your position. So, even with moving a lot from different teams and positions, I stayed within the same industry, even when others said that I should try something new. I never gave up and never will unless I try want to. Like I said before, I have learned resilience and perseverance from my grandparents. They would be disappointed if I threw my career away just because it got a little hard.
30:03 And what communication strategies have you used in developing resilience?
30:13 I make sure to always speak my mind and making sure that others are listening. I need people to hear and see me on all occasions. Oh, and listening to others is really important. I also spend time doing affirmations with me, myself and I each morning. With my affirmations, I have to stay consistent and say them continuously. Patience that was installed when I was younger looks so different now. Fast pace field means exactly that, so patience is on the verge of being thrown out the window. I can’t forget being mindful of how I present myself around others. Image is everything and how I sit, to how I dress to every other nonverbal is being watched because of my identitiy. As an African American female, I have to monitor my emotions big time, so that I’m not perceived as the “angry black woman” you know? Emotional intelligence has been something I have had to develop over these few years and is still a working progress but going well so far.
31:54 And how do you specifically define resiliency?
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31:59 Hmm, I would define resiliency as never giving up on yourself. Many people may continue to go towards their goals, but their self-confidence drops and that’s where you really lose. To really be resilient, you must continue to believe in yourself no matter what obstacle is thrown at you. You have to have your best interest and not rely on others to keep you motivated, passionate, and so forth. I think you also need to experience failure as well to be resilient. How can I be resilient and overcome things without having had weakness? Failure teaches you lessons and helps you grow into the woman or man you’re destined to be. True resiliency is not being afraid of failure, so remember that.
32:57 So, is resilience necessary for African American woman in executive positions similar to yours?
33:06 Umm, I think it really depends on the person. I usually would say yes, but I have seen some people that aren’t as resilient as myself and they are still very successful at what they do. It may also come down to how people define resiliency, I’m not sure. I think it is especially important for African American women. I can only speak to my experience as an AA woman though. I have to have thick skin and have a guard up at all times. And when we do get knocked down, Black women have to bounce back twice as fast and continue to show no weakness. It’s a gift and a curse for Black women. Part of our strength but also a weakness for us. It’s like, we are fighting those stereotypes and tropes that make us look less than or barbaric while White people are given one task.
34:20 What task is that?
34:24 To not be stupid and say anything offensive. I feel like that’s easy, but we see CEO’s all the time stepping down for being abruptly racist and sexist. A damn shame.
34:45 So, I have an off-track question for you. What was your most resilient moment in your current executive position?
34:55 I think the incident with my co-officer would be the biggest situation but in general, every day I choose resilience as I get back up and return to my office.
35:09 And how do you cope with the resilience and discrimination?
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35:14 What do you mean cope? Like how do I handle the pressure?
35:20 Sure.
35:24 One specific mechanism that comes to mind is keeping my email and work phone out of my home. I don’t want to be bothered with issues and problems when I’m in my own space. If they are at home with me, they are kept in my office and only operate from 7am to 8:30pm. I also prioritize spending time with my grandparents. They are vital to my foundation. Without them I don’t know where I would be. It’s definitely something that has to be in my routine.
36:01 Makes sense. Alright so, this is the question that has been in my opinion fun and creative. If you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience in the workplace, what would it be?
36:17 That is creative. Ummm, hold on.
36:22 Of course.
36:24 How about, comparing life to a relay race. African Americans have a different starting line than white people. Then, based off gender, there are advantages and disadvantages as well. It depicts the additional hurdles and roadblocks that people of colors have as they race white people in life.
36:48 Okay that works.
36:51 I honestly got that from an image I seen in a training about equity, but it still got the job done.
37:02 Yeah it sounds familiar but it’s okay. So, our final question is what advice would you give another African American C-suite executive who is dealing with microaggressions in the workplace?
37:16 I would say make sure that you have some way to get your feelings out. It is of course unprofessional to do it at work, but make sure that you have some type of support system where you can vent. A therapist works the same if you don’t have a trustworthy support system. I think it’s also a good idea to take time for yourself each week. As Black C-Suite executives, we usually carry the team on our back, but make sure your back is getting a break too. Massages are my go-to.
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37:58 Okay and that’s all I have. Thank you!
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00:01 Alrighty. So, before we get started, I want to go over a few things and of course, thank you again for volunteering to do this interview.
00:13 No problem at all. Glad I could help! Sounds like a great project.
00:21 Thank you, I’m hoping for it to turn out that way! And before we get started, I wanted to basically go over information I have already previously told you about. To keep your experiences confidential, you will be given a fake name, which we refer to as a pseudonym. I will not be revealing any information about where you work to allow you to be as open as possible if referring to specific situations at your current or past job. There is a possibility that I may choose direct quotes from this interview to back up any of the assumptions and claims I make in my study but again, no one will know it’s you unless you were to release that information.
01:02 Okay good. Sounds fine with me.
01:09 And next, I’m not sure if this will happen but I know that reliving trauma can be detrimental. Situations can be triggering and sometimes talking about past occurrences can bring up unwanted old feelings. I’m not saying this will go there, but just in case.
01:31 Okay I feel like I’ll be okay but thank you anyways.
01:40 Of course. So, now we will go ahead and get started. So, could you first state your name and your job title?
01:52 Yes ma’am. My name is ______and I am the Chief Diversity Officer for a health institute.
02:03 Perfect, okay so can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing? How did you get to the position you are in today?
02:16 So, I grew up in a household where God was the center of everything, but my parents weren’t saints. Everyone had to work hard know that respect is needed in order to live under our parents’ roof. We struggled but we lived and had fun every moment we could. My childhood is something I reflect on a lot now that both my parents and even my sister have now passed on.
02:54 I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sure that that that is tough.
03:00 Thank you. It’s okay though. It’s a part of life.
03:08 Definitely, I know that they are so proud of your success and how far you’ve come. So, with that being said, what are some specific things installed in your life, that have guided your success? 208
03:24 Most importantly God. I was taught not only to believe in but to lean on him for everything. Talk to him any and every moment and to have faith he wouldn’t guide me in the wrong direction. That was one of the first lessons my parents taught me as we encountered our family trials and tribulations. I think the next most important thing installed was the importance of family. This doesn’t mean just blood. I come from a city and neighborhood that all my cousins lived on one street and we all went to the same school. My neighbors who were around the same age were raised like my siblings. I was also blessed enough to make childhood friends that I now consider to be my family as well. Along with this my parents never met a stranger, so I think that made me want to be approachable in all situations. My community means a lot to me, mainly because I know how much my parents meant to my community. I still go back and visit often as I have family there and even some of my neighbors still live there. It's always great to catch up and realize no matter what nothing has changed.
05:02 Those definitely seem like valuable things installed in your life, especially to get you to the position you are in now.
05:14 Yes, they have helped me come so far and have been my motivation during the high and low times. It may be a time where I am feeling low and I call up a childhood friend and we discuss funny stories from childhood. Not only does it make you happy, but it reminds you of where you came from and how far God has brought you. It's still so amazing to me to have childhood friends say they admire me or look up to me. It pushes me even more.
05:58 I’m sure. I can't imagine life without friends and family.
06:07 Yeah, they truly make life ten times more special. It took some time for me to realize that with my own personal situations, but now that I have a family of my own, I see what my parents meant.
06:23 Parents truly know what's best sometimes.
06:30 They do. Listen to them and cherish every moment with them. They are so wise, and they are your parents for a reason.
06:45 So true, okay now can you, describe your experience in the workplace in an executive position, specifically the C-suite.
06:57 I love it honestly. People will stress you out just like any job and you consciously know someone is waiting to take your position, but I feel extremely blessed to have the opportunity. I know this is what I’m meant to do and that I am fulfilling the purpose God has put on my life. It was not easy to get to the position I am today. It took a lot of removing myself and letting 209
God do what he needed to do, a lot of twist and turns that were unexpected, but there were also beautiful moments along the way. I wouldn't trade my journey to get to the position I am today for nothing. It truly has made me an even better woman and executive.
07:54 And has there been moments where you felt like you were not fulfilling your purpose?
08:06 Of course. There were days that I didn't know if this was even what I wanted to do. In college I started out a completely different path and years later here I am. I had to find my way just as many other people do, which was discouraging at times. Had you asked me years ago would I see myself in the position I am today I probably would have said no. Not because I didn't believe in myself or anything, but because I just truly didn't see it, but I knew I wanted success. Not necessarily to be on top, although I did want to move higher up in whatever company I ended up in.
08:48 So when moments got discouraging what did you do? Like those moments where you felt like this was not your purpose and that you were possibly missing out on another purpose that you had been called for.
09:12 Prayer, lots and lots of prayer. I asked God for a lot of signs that this is where I am supposed to be. He would show me those signs and I would still ask again, like God are you sure this what I am supposed to be doing. I was happy, but everyone around me seemed so much more joyful. It took a moment for me to realize why I was called to be in this position and also how to find joy despite a long day at work, a meeting that was not beneficial, or an angry investors and supervisors. I had to realize that I had to choose the joy that I saw everyone around me having in order to feel what they felt, and now that I look back on it I do wonder if what they were feeling was true joy or if they were faking it.
10:28 That's amazing that you realized that you are fulfilling your purpose, it seems that so often now a days everyone is in search of what's next or if they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Why do you think some people were faking it?
10:49 Yes, it truly took time and patience though and faking it may not be the best words to use. Hmm, maybe they were hiding how they truly felt.
11:04 I bet; I think that people do it quite often in work environments.
11:15 They definitely do. It’s some days that I want to be at home cuddled on the couch with my kids and dog and not at work. Now that I am more honest and transparent with my staff, I tell them, I don't feel like being here today and I
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expect the same honesty from them. No sense in us all walking around with a mask on to make us appear to be something we are not, but you can’t look like that every day because then I am going to think you hate your job.
11:57 That's a great point, transparency is so needed in the workplace. So, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace? How was it communicated to you?
12:12 Oh yes. Mostly indirect remarks about my capability, my culture, and most of all my intelligence. I went to a HBCU for my bachelors and a PWI for my masters so of course I experienced two different worlds. I’ve worked in predominately Black spaces and I run into two common themes of questioning my universities credentials and White people feeling the need to over explain. So specifically, in relation to my HBCU experience, a people has asked, “Did you learn more at your PWI” which I translate as, “Your Black university did not properly prepare you”. This hesitated me from entering a PWI in the beginning, because of the stigmas of HBCU’s. Anyways, referring back to overexplaining, some people feel the need to break down concepts that I honestly may be more knowledgeable about, but they assume otherwise. In the corporate world, there are many foolish people who look good on paper but have terrible communication skills and that affects how they interact with people who don’t look like them or carry different power. Most times the remarks made shine on a brighter issue, such as being able to tell that some people have never truly been around people of color. Sad, but that’s their lived experience.
13:16 Okay, and with the typical remarks made, did you ever feel as if the discrimination experienced was intentional?
13:29 Not really. Like I said you can tell that they truly have not been around people of color, especially Black women. Unfortunately, people are just raised in stupidity at times or they may not genuinely know, however there is a limit. In this world a lot of what they see on TV is truly the only Black experience that they get. They don't take the time to educate themselves thereafter and it shows. After a while, learn from your mistakes and do better. If it continues, it then becomes intentional.
14:24 So with time you think it becomes intentional?
14:31 Yes. The more you don’t educate yourself, the more you fail yourself by not becoming aware.
14:41 Interesting. So how have you address the situations that come to mind?
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14:52 Deep down I wish I could handle it differently but that result in me embarrassing myself and putting my career at risk, so I try to think before speaking. I would replay the message in my head even when not sure about the intentions, and I would ask follow up questions. This leads to how I react. In all cases, definitely handle it in the most professional way, such as reporting it to HR if needed but I am also very direct. That’s how I was raised. So, a conversation will need to be held with the individual or I would end up holding on to ill feelings that will not better me in the future. I’ve also learned that not all situations need a response. So, it depends.
15:51 Was there ever a time where you had a conversation and the person said they genuinely didn't know they were in the wrong?
16:04 Yes. He said he grew up in a small town and said that he did not know that his remark was offensive. He seen from my point of view afterwards and stated that it wouldn't happen again. It just amazed me at the time talking to him that he stated that he really didn't know that what he was saying wasn't okay. It made me realize even more how no matter how much education you have, who your parents are, where you grew up, doesn't matter if you have no common sense.
16:44 Okay, and depending on the situation, did you feel like your experiences with discrimination dismissed your thoughts, experiences and/or feelings?
17:00 Not exactly. Like I stated before, he seen from my point of view and even went on later to let me know that he had been better educate himself because that moment opened his eyes so much. Now that did surprise me. I have felt cornered though. When I say cornered, more so I shouldn’t be in a position where I’m second guessing my character because someone else has the issue. Again, respect is a big value of mine and I try to respect everyone the way I would want to be respected. Keeping that in mind as an executive, I try my best to make every interaction with an employee a pleasant one, even when it’s not good news.
17:46 Even when it’s not good news? Do you mean like you may have to let them go or something?
17:55 Oh yes definitely, especially if they are upset and take it out on me. You have to be on top of it no matter where you are because people are always watching how you react, especially at the top where you’re in charge.
18:18 Makes a lot of sense. Is there another situation you would like to describe that you were discriminated against?
18:29 Hmm, not really. Not that I can think of.
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18:37 Okay, and based off the experiences you’ve had, how did you navigate the encounters?
18:46 Simply thinking before I speak is one and turning to others who were mentors for advice is another. I know my judgment has not been the greatest in moments of my career so without guidance, I wouldn’t be the executive you see today. My situations have caused me to go to HR a few times and thankfully I have a great HR director. I can't imagine working for a company where you don't feel comfortable going to HR mainly because you don't think they will do anything or have your back. Some fellow executives I know have reported their HR coordinator for being bias and not doing their job in general. That person is supposed to protect all employees so I can only imagine.
19:35 That's so unfortunate. So next, would you say that you have been resilient throughout your career?
19:45 Yes. That’s the only way success becomes an option.
19:51 How so?
19:53 Because we are faced with battles in all situations and giving up leads nowhere. I don’t know one woman who has gained success without being resilient. It honestly seems impossible. Holding on to that ‘keep going’ mentality is what drives all ambition and makes the journey worth all the hurdles one has jumped over.
20:22 Hmm. So, what communication strategies have you used in developing the resilience you’ve had through your career?
20:31 Honestly, being outspoken, like I’ve stated before. I was raised to be direct and have seen the benefits of speaking up. Paying attentional to everyone’s nonverbals is another. I believe that tells us more than the words transferred in conversations, especially in meetings. I can always tell who is disengaged or not as engaged as their counterpart. I can also tell who is not too keen on things that I say in those meetings, or disagree, but will verbally say that they do agree. That’s a pet peeve of mine as well
21:08 What is?
21:10 False opinions. I don’t want fake feedback. I’m asking for people’s honest opinion. The truth is all I’m asking for. If you don’t agree, I am fine with questions. There is even a section in all presentations for questions. People are intimidated and that’s their fault, but the success of our company gets nowhere when we all agree on the same factors, when a better idea may exist. 213
21:40 Why do you think they are intimidated?
21:44 Because I’m a black woman. I haven’t acted in an unusual way so I’m not sure why else. It behooves me how many times many people agree with me in the meetings, then go tell my boss that they didn't like what I had to say. Usually, I already know they did not like what I had to say because they will make a face during the meeting or wait a few minutes and get up to use the restroom. Eye contact gives many people as well, well nonverbals in general. You can easily tell who has been discussing you, prior to the meeting. They will look at each other directly as if they are speaking with their eyes. They sometimes even go as far as looking down at their watch or phone. It's ridiculous because when it's their turn I give them my undivided attention. It’s disrespectful more than anything.
23:12 What is usually their reasoning that they don't like what you have to say?
23:21 Honestly who knows, and who knows why they don't come tell me directly instead of talking amongst each other or going to my boss. I get along with my colleagues for the most part, but it's just the few that are threatened by me who I am speaking about. I know who they are, and they are aware that I know that they aren't too keen of me. It's fine though, I know I am a great executive and they aren't going to steal my joy.
23:57 Is this part of the resilience?
24:02 What exactly?
24:06 The not stealing your joy, like you said?
24:12 Yes, definitely.
24:15 Okay. Now, how would you define resiliency?
24:23 Simply the idea of falling and getting back up. The idea of continuing on when you want to give up. Resiliency holds so much power because it’s like a fight with yourself and those who are expecting failure. Keep going, if anything, is the best definition.
24:43 And do you believe resiliency is necessary for someone in your position or in one similar?
24:54 Yes, definitely. I can’t see it being possible without resilience. I know we just discussed this being needed, but especially in this position, or in any high position while being a Black woman. We deal with some of the greatest
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battles and we run into challenges that ask us to be resilient on different levels of seriousness.
25:18 Could you give an example outside of the current conversation?
25:27 Loving a Black man is resilience. The history of our ancestors, having to raise your own children and take care of the master’s children. Resilience.
25:44 So, how do you cope?
25:51 As in how am I able to deal with the daily struggles?
25:56 If that’s how you perceive it, yes. I don’t want to lead you.
26:06 Well, prayer and a supportive system including my children and husband. They really help motivate me to get through the day knowing I get to go home to them. I take vacations, sometimes with my children and other times with just my husband. Some days I need to leave early for a simple massage or visit my husband on his lunch break. He’s my peace. You truly have to find your me time, which could be as simple as closing your door for 5 minutes, putting your phone on do not disturb or taking a bathroom break and sitting there. I’ve had to do it all, especially on big meeting days. I used to have unhealthy coping habits such as eating, but I soon learned that wasn't good for me as it caught up with me. I then began to take it out on my husband and children, by holding all of my anger in from the day and yell about something as simple as a fork being in the sink. Those are such unhealthy ways of coping and why now I am so big on being transparent and taking me time. I tell my employees all the time if you have to take a walk around the block please do so, need to lock yourself in your office with the lights off, do so. Do what you need to do to maintain your joy in a stressful environment. It took me a while to find my coping skills, because I was so caught up in the success part of it, but that's another story for a different day.
28:03 Thank you so much for sharing that, now, if you had to choose a metaphor to describe your experience as an executive, what would it be?
28:14 Hmmm, I’m not sure.
28:18 Would you like more time to think and I come back to the question or would you like to skip it in general?
28:26 No, I don’t want to mess up your data so how about, being Black and woman as an executive is a drive? Like those Uber and Lyft drivers?
28:41 Could you further explain?
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28:45 I’ll try. What I’m thinking of how they are responsible to get us to our destination safe and sound and for the price we were expected to pay. We rely on them. Our corporate companies rely on us for certain duties to happen. Our employees expect to get to success safe. They trust us like we trust our Uber’s. Well, maybe not because I’ve heard a lot of negative stories about some drivers so many that wasn’t a great metaphor.
29:26 No, it’s fine. I think that was a good metaphor that I would've never thought of and I knew what you meant.
29:38 Yes, it's kind of hard to think of one but I will say we are set on getting our job done.
29:49 I can tell that you are passionate about what you do and the young people that you work with.
29:56 I am. I take what I do seriously, anything attached to my name has greatness. I firmly believe that. When I was younger my parents always made sure that I was the best at everything that I did. I now expect that from my children, employees, interns, really everyone I surround myself with. I know that was one of the, well another reason I got so caught up in the success. I was the best at what I was doing in my department, constantly getting praises from my peers and the community. I wanted more and got it. Well got it the right way.
30:54 And do you ever feel that you are too hard on your employees since you expect nothing but the best from them?
31:06 Sometimes...well according to them I am a great boss, they know the expectations that are set every day when they come in. We have our days that are harder than others and we make sure to come together to keep everything together for the sake of the company. We may bump heads occasionally when doing so, but we figure it out. When my employees go out and represent our company at conventions, meetings etc. people always know who is under me because they are always fully prepared. There are people under me who always say they wish I was their boss and that they love the way I handle things, especially the comments we talked a little about earlier.
31:52 Thank you so much for sharing once again. Now last question is just what advice would you give another Black executive who is coping with microaggressions in the workplace?
32:13 I would say don’t be afraid to be vulnerable and lean on someone. You are in a powerful position so it will be needed. You will run into ignorance but to 216
really get under their skin, you need to continue to be magical. It all goes back to one of the first questions you asked me as well, what was installed in you growing up. I know where I came from, I know who I am. I worked way too hard to be in the position that I am in, don't let that ignorance steal your joy or the brand for yourself that you have built. There will be many people who look up to you and wonder how you got to where you are today, be honest with them. Let them know of your journey and what it took for you to get to the top. Also don't be afraid to love. Please listen to my story, that's why I shared it. Your job won't love you back, but your children will. Put God first in all things he got you to the position you are in today and he will make sure to order every step that you have thereafter. If you ever feel like giving up remember why you started. Don't let those little comments cost you what you worked so hard for, set people straight. If you do not like what someone said to you, address it in a professional manner and if it goes beyond that take it to higher persons.
34:25 Thank you so much again for sharing your story with me and sharing your experiences. It was amazing speaking with you and getting too dive deeper into what makes you the woman you are today.
34:53 Anytime, if you think of any more questions please feel free to email or call me, I enjoy doing things like this and I hope I answered everything correctly.
35:29 You definitely did, and Alright. Thank you again for your time I genuinely appreciate.
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