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George Papadopoulos 1 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE EXECUTIVE SESSION COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, D.C. INTERVIEW OF: GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS Thursday, October 25, 2018 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:00 a.m. Members Present: Representatives Meadows, Ratcliffe, and Raskin. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 2 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Somers. Good morning. This is a transcribed interview of George Papadopoulos. Chairman Goodlatte and Gowdy requested this interview as part of a joint investigation by the House Committee on the Judiciary and the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform into decisions made and not made by the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding the 2016 Presidential election. Will the witness please state his name for the record. Mr. Papadopoulos. George Papadopoulos. Mr. Somers. On behalf of the chairman, I want to thank you for appearing today, and we appreciate your willingness to appear voluntarily. My name is Zachary Somers. I'm the majority general counsel for the House Judiciary Committee. I would now like to ask everyone else in the room to introduce themselves for the record, starting with Art Baker. Mr. Baker. Arthur Baker, investigative counsel, majority staff, House Judiciary Committee. Mr. Breitenbach. Ryan Breitenbach, House Judiciary Committee, majority. Mr. Castor. Steve Castor with the Committee on Government Reform, majority staff. Mr. Ventura. Christopher Ventura, House majority legal staff. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 3 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Brebbia. Sean Brebbia, Oversight Government Reform, majority. Mr. Buddharaju. Anudeep Buddharaju, House Committee on Oversight. Mr. Gowdy's staff. Mr. Cooper. Kadeem Cooper, House Oversight, majority. Ms. Hariharan. Arya Hariharan, House Judiciary, minority counsel. Ms. Shen. Valerie Shen, House Oversight majority. Mr. Hiller. Aaron Hiller, House Judiciary, Democrats. Mr. Morgan. Matthew Morgan, House Judiciary, Democrats. Ms. Kim. Janet Kim, House Oversight, Democrats. Ms. Sachsman Grooms. Susanne Sachsman Grooms House Oversight, Democrats. Ms. Polisi. I'm Caroline Polisi, here with George Papadopoulos of Pierce Bainbridge as his counsel, along with my partners. Mr. La Vigne. Chris La Vigne, also appearing as counsel. Mr. Pierce. John Pierce also on behalf of the witness. Mr. Somers. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure do not apply in this setting, but there are some guidelines that we follow that I would like to go over. Our questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions first for an hour, and the minority will have the opportunity to ask questions for an equal period of time. We'll go back and forth in this manner until there are no more questions COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 4 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE and the interview is over. Typically, we take a short break at the end of each hour of questioning, but if you would like to take a break apart from that, please let us know. We may also take a break for lunch at the appropriate point. As I noted earlier, you are appearing voluntarily. Accordingly, we anticipate that our questions will receive complete responses. To the extent that you decline to answer our questions, or if counsel instructs you not to answer a question, we will consider whether a subpoena is necessary. As you can see, there's an official reporter taking down everything that is said to make a written record. So we ask that you give verbal responses to all questions. Do you understand that? Mr. Papadopoulos. I understand. Mr. Somers. So that the reporter can take down a clear record, it's important that we don't talk over one over or interrupt each other, if we can help it. Both committees encourage witnesses who appear for transcribed interviews to freely consult with counsel, if they so choose. And you are appearing with counsel today. Will counsel please state her name for the record. Ms. Polisi. Carolyn Polisi. Pierce Bainbridge Breck Price & Hecht. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 5 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Somers. Thank you. We also want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we will take our time. If you have any questions or if you do not understand one of our questions, please let us know. If you honestly don't know the answer to a question, or do not remember it, it is best not to guess. Please just give us your best recollection and it is okay to tell us if you learn the information from someone else. If there are things you don't know or can't remember, just say so and please inform us who, to the best of your knowledge, might be able to provide a more complete answer to the question. You should also understand that although this interview is not under oath, you are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully. Do you understand that? Mr. Papadopoulos. I understand. Mr. Somers. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in an interview, do you understand that? Mr. Papadopoulos. I understand. Mr. Somers. Witnesses who knowingly provide false testimony could be subject to criminal prosecution for perjury, or for making false statements. Do you understand this? Mr. Papadopoulos. I do understand. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 6 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Somers. Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful answers to today's questions? Mr. Papadopoulos. There's no reason. Mr. Somers. Finally, we ask that you not speak about what we discuss in this interview with anyone else outside of who is here in the room with us today in order to preserve the integrity of our investigation. This confidentiality rule applies to every one present in the room. That is the end of my preamble. Do you have any questions before we begin the first round? Mr. Papadopoulos. No, I don't. Mr. Somers. Okay. The time is now 10:05, and we will begin our first round of questioning. I think just to begin, obviously -- Mr. Castor. Zack, we ought to -- Mr. Somers. I'm sorry. Mr. Castor. We have a member here. Mr. Meadows. I'm Congressman Meadows from North Carolina. Thank you for coming. Mr. Papadopoulos. It's our pleasure, sir. Mr. Somers. I think, just at the outset, just like to ask, obviously you've pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI. And I just want to give you an opportunity to give us any assurances you could that the testimony today that you're going to give and the answers to our questions will be truthful. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 7 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Papadopoulos. I assure you, they will be truthful. Mr. Raskin. Good morning. Congressman Jamie Raskin from the 8th District of Maryland. Welcome. EXAMINATION BY MR. SOMERS: Q If we could just begin, could you tell us how you came to be affiliated with the Trump campaign? A Sure, as far as I remember, I had reached out to Corey Lewandowski sometime in the summer of 2015 via LinkedIn to basically just say I'm interested in working on the campaign. This is, I think, when the campaign had around three staff members or so. And I just -- I don't know, there was something in me that just thought that Donald Trump was going to be elected the President of the United States. I think I was working at the Hudson Institute in Washington at the time, and I was looking to really leave the so-called establishment type of arena and just, you know, just join a kind of a renegade type of candidate and then see what happens. I then reached out. He responds, you know, noncommittal but let's keep in touch kind of thing, as far as I understand. We then keep in touch. I'm sending him updates regarding what I'm doing in London or in joining the Ben Carson campaign. And then afterwards, I believe he put me in touch with Michael Glassner, who then put me in touch with Sam Clovis, who I believe COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 8 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE essentially hired me after an interview with him. That's how I remembered it going down. Q What were you hired to do? A To work as a foreign policy adviser. Q And what's your foreign policy background? A I worked at the Hudson Institute here in Washington, D.C. for 4 to 5 years as a research associate, interned on research associated, focusing mostly on energy issues in the Mediterranean. Q So what, was there -- I mean, foreign policy is obviously a broad category. A Yeah. Q Is there anything specific that you, you know, were supposed to bring to the table for the Trump campaign, or any specific responsibility or was it -- A I'm not sure exactly what the thought process was of the hiring team, why they exactly wanted me on, but I'm sure they knew my background at Hudson Institute and then in the energy industry. And I think, based on a couple conferences I was speaking at, some publications I had written, I assume that's why they were interested in bringing me on. I'm not sure exactly what they were thinking, though. Q And obviously a key focus of the investigation or -- the investigation between Trump's ties with other countries have been Russia. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 9 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE What was your background pre-Trump campaign with Russia? A The best way I could characterize my -- that question, is that I was a complete wannabe when it came to the U.S.-Russia relationship. I essentially had no connection to Russia whatsoever before I became embroiled in, I guess, this issue.
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