Minutes of the 3rd Meeting in 2020 of the Environmental Protection, Fisheries, Agriculture, Industries, Commerce, Food and Health Committee of Tai Po District Council

Date: 13 May 2020 (Wednesday) Time: 9:33 a.m. – 7:11 p.m. Venue: Conference Room, Tai Po District Council (“TPDC”)

Present Time of Arrival Time of Withdrawal Chairman Mr. LAU Yung-wai Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting

Vice-Chairman Mr. TAM Yi-pui Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting

Members Mr. AU Chun-ho 11:54 a.m. End of the meeting Mr. AU Chun-wah 10:40 a.m. End of the meeting Mr. CHAN Chun-chit, Richard Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Ms. CHAN Wai-ka, Olive Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai 9:43 a.m. End of the meeting Mr. HO Wai-lam Beginning of the meeting 7:05 p.m. Mr. KWAN Wing-yip 9:45 a.m. End of the meeting Mr. LAM Ming-yat, Nick Beginning of the meeting 6:33 p.m. Mr. LAM Yick-kuen Beginning of the meeting 6:35 p.m. Mr. LIN Kok-cheung, Dalu Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. MAN Nim-chi Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. MO Ka-chun, Patrick Beginning of the meeting 12:07 p.m. Mr. SO Tat-leung Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. WONG Siu-kin Beginning of the meeting 3:00 p.m. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong Beginning of the meeting 7:08 p.m. Mr. YAM Kai-bong Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. YIU Kwan-ho Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Mr. YIU Yeuk-sang Beginning of the meeting 6:49 p.m.

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Secretary Ms. NG Wing-yan, Sophie Beginning of the meeting End of the meeting Executive Officer (District Council) 2 / Tai Po District Office (“TPDO”) / Home Affairs Department (“HAD”)

In Attendance

Mr. TANG Wing-kai, Ricky Fisheries Officer (Enforcement) 1 / Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department (“AFCD”) Ms. HUI Yuk-ting, Rachel Agricultural Officer (Agricultural Extension) / AFCD Mr. WAT Ka-fai, John Structural Engineer / C2-3 / Buildings Department (“BD”) Mr. HUNG Ka-kui Engineer / Maintenance 1A / Civil Engineering and Development Department (“CEDD”) Mr. NG Wing-hung Senior Engineer / Tai Po / Drainage Services Department (“DSD”) Ms. LUK Wai-yun, Connie Senior Environmental Protection Officer (Regional North) 1 / Environmental Protection Department (“EPD”) Ms. WONG Wai-ling Senior Environmental Protection Officer (Waste Management Policy) 4 /EPD Mr. MA Hon-chiu Chief Health Inspector 1 / Tai Po / Food and Environmental Hygiene Department (“FEHD”) Mr. LAW Shau-mong Senior Health Inspector (Cleansing & Pest Control) Tai Po 2 / FEHD Mr. LEE Pak-ho Senior Health Inspector (Administration & Development) Special Duties / FEHD Mr. LAU Ka-yip Assistant Division Commander (Operations) (Tai Po) / Hong Kong Police Force (“HKPF”) Mr. LAU Lai-fu Patrol Sub-unit Commander 3 (Tai Po Division) / HKPF Mr. TSANG Wai-ming Patrol Sub-unit Station Sergeant 1 (Tai Po Division) / HKPF Mr. CHENG Wun-chee District Engineer / Tai Po 1 / Highways Department (“HyD”) Mr. CHEN Wai-kuen Administrative Assistant / Lands / District Lands Office, Tai Po (“TPDLO”) / Lands Department (“Lands D”) Mr. CHAN Siu-hung Senior Land Executive / Control / TPDLO / Lands D Mr. NG Yiu-lun, Johnny Marine Officer / Pollution Control Unit (1) / Marine Department (“MD”) Mr. MA Chi-ping Senior Assistant Shipping Master / Pollution Control Unit (2) / MD Ms. LEE Ching-yee, Patty Senior Liaison Officer (1) / TPDO / HAD Ms. CHAN Sui-king, Madeline Senior Executive Officer (District Management) / TPDO / HAD Mr. LEE Yu-sau, Terence Senior Executive Officer (District Council) / TPDO / HAD

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Ms. WONG Sin-man, Mabel Executive Officer (District-led Actions Scheme) / TPDO / HAD Mr. LAM Chun-man, German Animal Guardian Alliance (“AGA”) Ms. LI Shuk-fun, Gloria AGA Mr. LUK Ka-jeep, Kent AGA Ms. CHAN Wing-yin, Cliver AGA Ms. LEUNG Nga-kwan, Angel Services Supervisor / Hong Chi Association (“HCA”) Ms. CHONG Siu-man Project Manager / HCA

Opening Remarks

The Chairman welcomed participants to the third meeting in 2020 of the Environmental Protection, Fisheries, Agriculture, Industries, Commerce, Food and Health Committee (“EFAC”).

I. Confirmation of the minutes of the 2nd meeting in 2020 of the EFAC on 4 March 2020 (TPDC Paper No. EFA 22/2020)

2. The Chairman reported that the Secretariat had not received any proposed amendments prior to the meeting. As no Members proposed any amendments at the meeting, the minutes of the previous meeting were confirmed.

II. Animal Guardian Alliance – Project TNR 18 (TPDC Paper No. EFA 23/2020)

3. The Chairman welcomed Mr. LAM Chun-man, German; Ms. LI Shuk-fun, Gloria; Mr. LUK Ka-jeep, Kent; and Ms. CHAN Wing-yin, Cliver of AGA to the meeting for this agenda item.

4. Ms. Cliver CHAN outlined Paper No. EFA 23/2020.

5. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Chairman’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He strongly supported the above programme. (ii) There was a lot of stray cats and dogs in Hong Kong. The way to deal with them at present was to catch them and then put them up for adoption. If they were not adopted, they had to be euthanised. He did not support such a way to deal with them, and agreed that stray cats and dogs should be neutered so as to reduce their population.

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(iii) He had discussed with AGA members about implanting microchips in stray cats and dogs. Although “Trap-Neuter-Return” (“TNR”) was a programme rolled out by the AFCD for stray cats and dogs, since the department stopped running the programme, a lot of volunteers in the community still wanted to neuter the stray cats and dogs. However, they were not sure whether they should implant microchips in stray cats and dogs that had been neutered, and it was rather controversial to return to stray cats and dogs to where they were. Volunteers might be complained by members of the public, or even fined by the law enforcement departments because of it. He opined that for the volunteers, their good deeds were not rewarded. As such, he hoped that the departments concerned would review the policies, and amend the legislation where necessary. (iv) The current legislation stipulated that if a vehicle had hit a cow, the Police had to be called. However, such an arrangement was not applicable to cats and dogs. As such, he hoped that the legislation could cover them as well. (v) To his knowledge, there was an abandoned school premises in Ko Tong which was in his constituency. It was far away from people’s homes and thus would not disturb the residents there. As such, he opined that the location was suitable for a spay and neuter clinic for cats and dogs. (vi) If the AFCD re-launched the TNR programme, he would strongly support it, and hoped that other Members would do the same.

6. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong asked whether the AFCD representatives had not arrived at the meeting, or would not attend the meeting.

7. The Secretary said that she had reported to the Chairman prior to the meeting that AGA attended this meeting mainly to introduce and promote the above programme, and did not ask the AFCD to send anyone to the meeting. As such, staff from the relevant unit of the AFCD had not been invited to this meeting. Also, the two permanent AFCD representatives did not belong to the department’s division responsible for animal management. They would be a little late to the meeting due to other official commitments.

8. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments were as follows:

(i) As the government department responsible for animal management, the AFCD should make sure that its two permanent representatives were also present at this agenda item. The EFAC was discussing with AGA on ways to provide assistance and allocate resources for the programme. He opined that the AFCD should not avoid this agenda item. He would later propose setting up an ad hoc Working Group to follow up on the afore-mentioned Project TNR 18, and hoped that the

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AFCD representatives would attend the Working Group meetings and discuss the matters with Members. (ii) The AFCD implemented the TNR trial programme in places such as Cheung Chau and Tai Tong between 2015 and 2018. However, he opined that the targets set by the AFCD were short-sighted and not sensible, such as reducing the population of stray dogs by 10% in a year, and the number of complaints on stray dogs had to be lower than the territory-wide average, etc. These targets had shown a misunderstanding of the objective of animal management. He opined that the objective of rolling out the programme was not to reduce the population of stray dogs in a short period of time, but to prevent its population from increasing quickly in the future. The TNR programme’s objective was not to eliminate stray dogs like what the AFCD used to do, but to stop its population from increasing in ways that were humane and could promote their well-being. He said that when the AFCD implemented the TNR programme in Cheung Chau at that time, it had a profound impact despite neutering only 65 stray dogs, and had possibly reduced the population of stray dogs by thousands. (iii) As the TNR initiatives for stray dogs was governed by the Rabies Ordinance, it needed the AFCD’s co-operation, and a trial programme had to be rolled out under the relevant legislation. However, the legislation above did not govern other stray animals such as cats and dogs. He pointed out that a number of organisations in the community had TNR programmes for stray cats, and asked AGA to brief Members on the effectiveness of neutering stray cats. He opined that the information was worth referring to when carrying out the TNR programme for stray dogs, as it could encourage the AFCD to allocate resources for this programme. He strongly supported the above programme of AGA.

9. Mr. CHAN Chun-chit, Richard’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He was a director of Elderly Animals’ Village, an animal conservation organisation that mainly cared for elderly dogs and cats, so that they could spend their final years in the organisation’s facilities. (ii) He strongly supported the above programme by AGA, and opined that it was very important for residents and animals to live peacefully together in the community. Taking Lam Tsuen as an example, he said that some villagers had complained about the frequent presence of monkeys that had disturbed their daily lives, while some believed that monkey were “indigenous residents” of villages. (iii) He asked through what kind of registration AGA was set up, and would like know its structure.

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(iv) He had read the business cards of AGA members, which said that the above programme covered stray cats, dogs, wild hogs and cows. He asked AGA whether goats, monkeys and wild pigeons were also covered by the programme. (v) AGA had mentioned in the programme that it planned to use containers or abandoned school premises as operating theatres or animal shelters. He hoped that the TPDLO could respond to it.

10. Mr. HO Wai-lam’s comments were as follows:

(i) He strongly supported the above programme of AGA. (ii) He said that compared with other countries, Hong Kong was way behind in its animal protection legislation. For instance, some countries had educated members of the public about the life value and moral care of animals, but Hong Kong had not taken the relevant measures. The Government should review the legislation in a timely manner, and increase the penalty on abandoning, abusing or killing animals, and he also strongly supported establishing “animal police”. (iii) He hoped that members of the public respected lives and should the responsibilities as pet owners.

11. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung responded that he could not provide any information about containers for the time being. The TPDLO sometimes would confiscate containers which came in different conditions. Members could ask him about the information after the meeting. The TPDLO would put the confiscated containers up for auction, and discard them if unsold. Also, the TPDLO’s website had set out the information of abandoned school premises under its care, and Members could refer to it. There were 12 abandoned school premises in Tai Po District under the TPDLO’s care.

12. Ms. Gloria LI responded as follows:

(i) The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (“SPCA”) had been running the Cat Colony Care Programme since 2000. SPCA volunteers would catch stray cats on the streets, neuter them and then send them back to the community. The programme had been running for 20 years, and had carried out the TNR initiative for about 50 000 stray cats (over 3 000 per year). She and Ms. Cliver CHAN were both registered volunteers and would participate in the programme, and opined that the programme was hugely successful. (ii) SPCA volunteers would implant microchips in cats neutered under the above programme for identification purposes. If members of the public complained about the presence of stray cats and the AFCD had caught the cats, the AFCD

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would check the microchip’s number with the SPCA. If it was confirmed that the cat belonged to the above programme, the AFCD would hand it over to the SPCA’s care. The SPCA would set a four-day window to find out if the cat was a lost cat, or if anyone would adopt it. If no one did after the deadline, most of the time volunteers would release the cat back to the community. If volunteers noticed that the cat was sick, they would also catch it and hand it over to the veterinarians. (iii) In Tai Po Town Centre, there was also a number of cats that had been neutered through the above programme. For these cats, one of the ears had been cropped for identification purposes. (iv) Although the AFCD had called on members of the public not to feed wild animals, she opined that consideration also had to be given to the animals’ species and condition. For instance, as stray cats and dogs were domesticated animals, they had limited ability to stay alive in the wild. As such, volunteers would also feed them. (v) She noticed that some members of the public would feed wild animals such as pigeons, wild hogs and monkeys. As these animals could find enough food in the wild and on the mountains, feeding them was not necessary.

13. Mr. German LAM responded as follows:

(i) AGA was applying to the HKPF to become a registered organisation, and would register as a company limited by guarantee. The organisation later would also register as a recognised charitable body under Section 88 of the Inland Revenue Ordinance, and this registration would take a longer period of time. (ii) AGA hoped that it could secure funding from public donation and subsidies from the District Council (“DC”) to implement the TNR programme for stray dogs. (iii) Using containers as spay and neuter clinics as stated in the proposal was just a suggestion and had not been confirmed.

14. Mr. SO Tat-leung’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The were stray dog problems in his Shuen Wan constituency. While many volunteers would like to carry out TNR for stray dogs on their own, the various legislations and restrictions mentioned by AGA above had made the volunteers unwilling to run afoul of the law, and had greatly hampered their willingness to lend a hand. He considered that under the restrictions concerned, it should be the Government but not the non-governmental organisations (“NGOs”) to carry out

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the TNR, as it was difficult for the NGOs to carry out the programme under these restrictions. (ii) He said that for the TNR trial programme for stray dogs rolled out by the AFCD not long ago, the first performance target was to neuter at least 80% of stray dogs in the trial sites. He would like to know the population of stray dogs in the trial sites. The AFCD’s second performance target was to reduce the population of stray dogs in the sites by 10% each year during the trial period. He found this target even more inappropriate as stray dogs, under normal circumstances, would not die after being neutered, and some members of the public might also abandon their pet dogs during the period as well. As such, the AFCD should not use reducing the population of stray dogs as a target of the programme. The third performance target was that the number of complaints received should be lower than the territory-wide average. He would like to know whether the department had set out what kind of complaints it was referring to.

15. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He thanked AGA for explaining that it was registered under the Societies Ordinance, and would register as a company limited by guarantee, and a recognised charitable body under Section 88 of the Inland Revenue Ordinance. He opined that it could carry out these registrations at the same time, and needed not wait until the above programme was launched to do so. (ii) AGA’s members were all persons-in-charge of other existing organisations. He asked whether AGA would consider rolling out the programme through their original organisations. Also, if AGA’s members received donation through the newly set up organisation, had they estimated whether it would affect the work of their own organisations? (iii) In point 3 on page 11 of the above paper, AGA estimated that the above programme could neuter some 2 400 stray dogs in Hong Kong each year, and other items, such as the budget, were calculated on the basis of 2 400 stray dogs as well. However, having gone through the calculation based on the estimated number of 2 400 stray dogs, he found the estimate too optimistic. As the figure would affect various items such as the budget, he hoped that AGA would carefully review it.

16. Mr. MAN Nim-chi’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) In the above proposal, AGA had attached the discussion paper submitted by the AFCD to the Legislative Council’s (“LegCo’s”) Panel on Food Safety and Environmental Hygiene. The paper stated that the AFCD had commissioned an

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independent consultant, and the consultancy report talked about carrying out euthanisation that was in line with international standards. He asked AGA about its views on it. (ii) He would like to know the actual population of stray dogs and cats in Tai Po District, and data such as the change in population, etc.

17. Mr. German LAM responded as follows:

(i) He knew that the various registrations for the organisation could be carried out at the same time, and the organisation was also carrying out the various registrations mentioned above. (ii) AGA was set up by the persons-in-charge of four existing organisations, and their objectives were different. Donors made their donations to these four organisations according to their respective objectives. For instance, his organisation, Give Dogs a Home, mainly dealt with cases for help relating to keeping dogs in public housing. HK Paws Guardian Limited, the organisation of another AGA member, Kent LUK, mainly helped the injured stray animals. As such, it would not be appropriate to ask any of the four organisations to roll out the programme. The four members hoped that they could bring together the volunteer teams of their respective organisations to set up AGA, and carry out the TNR programme for stray dogs.

18. Ms. Gloria LI responded that to her understanding, the SPCA’s veterinarians neutered some 30 stray cats and 15 stray dogs each day on average. Neuter operation was straightforward for male dogs, but more complicated for female dogs. As such, AGA estimated in its proposal that veterinarians could neuter around 10 stray dogs per day, which was a conservative figure. They hoped that after catching stray dogs, they could neuter them as soon as possible. If they could catch the stray dogs effectively at that time, they might be able to neuter 15 of them every day. Under normal circumstances, each neuter operation would only take around 30 minutes.

19. Mr. Kent LUK responded as follows:

(i) As the AFCD had not implemented any sound management initiatives for stray animals at present, it had no statistics on the population of stray dogs in Hong Kong for the time being. According to the animal protection organisations in the community, it was estimated that there were as many as over 300 000 stray dogs in Hong Kong. (ii) The AFCD might receive more complaints about stray dogs recently. After receiving a complaint, the AFCD would arrive at the scene to catch the stray dog

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and send it to one of its Animal Management Centres (“AMCs”). If a microchip had been implanted in the stray dog, the AFCD would try to find its owner. If the dog owner said that he would no longer keep it, the dog would be euthanised. If no microchip had been implanted in the stray dog, there would be a four-day window for adoption, while veterinarians would also carry out tests on it to assess and determine its age, health condition, character, aggressiveness, etc. However, stray dogs that had been sent to the AMCs often became violent for self-defence. The AMCs had taken in a number of stray dogs, which would whimper and cry as they were not familiar with the environment. As a result, dogs that stayed there would easily get sick due to pressure. Recently, some dogs had passed away at the AMCs, and it was in fact not uncommon. If the dog was not adopted after the four-day window and had not received positive assessment by the veterinarians, it would most likely be euthanised. To his estimate, out of 100 stray dogs that had not been adopted, over 90 would be euthanised. Stray dogs that had passed the veterinarians’ assessment would be sent to the AFCD’s partnering organisations for adoption by members of the public. (iii) As regards the above situation, most of the stray dogs caught by the AFCD would be euthanised. However, the stray dogs caught were usually very friendly, and that was why they showed up and got in touch with human beings in the first place. His organisation would like to improve the above situation, and hoped that members of the public would not resort to complaints to deal with stray dog problems. (iv) If a microchip had been implanted in a stray dog, it meant that it had been vaccinated against rabies, and vice versa. Dogs that had not been vaccinated against rabies would bring potential risks to public hygiene. His organisation would go to the AFCD to adopt stray dogs and register as their owners. To date, he had adopted over 600 dogs. (v) His organisation would catch and treat the injured stray dogs and put them up for adoption by members of the public. If a dog could not be adopted due to special circumstances, the organisation would bring it back to where it was caught wherever possible. They would like to neuter the dogs they had caught, implant a microchip in each of them, and vaccinate them against rabies before releasing them. It would not increase the population of stray dogs, but could calculate its population, vaccinate them against rabies, and prevent them from being euthanised. He also pointed out that members of the public might not understand that their complaint against the presence of stray dogs to the AFCD would lead to the dogs’ euthanisation.

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20. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, agreed with Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s suggestion to set up a Working Group for the above programme. He also opined that follow-up actions could be taken for the above programme, such as inviting officers of the AFCD’s relevant divisions for discussion, DC Members finding out the stray dog problems and suitable sites that could be used by the programme in their constituencies, the DC kick-starting a review on the relevant legislations using a “bottom-up” approach, etc. Should AGA need help when registering as an organisation, and want to look into ways to enhance the public education for the above matters, it could also ask the ad hoc Working Group for assistance.

21. Mr. WONG Siu-kin’s comments were as follows:

(i) A number of Members had commented on the TNR approach for stray dogs, and he believed that there should not be much disagreement about it. As such, the Government should have adopted it. (ii) In the past few years, he and several like-minded people had also helped deal with stray cat problems using the TNR approach. (iii) He opined that apart from agreeing to deal with stray dogs using the TNR approach, the EFAC should also consider ways to take it forward, and the above programme by AGA was a good start. (iv) The key issue of this discussion was how the Government could work together with the animal protection organisations in the community, and these organisations had covered the shortcomings of the Government’s initiatives on animal management. In many foreign countries, it was the Government that spearheaded the implementation of TNR programme for stray animals. In Hong Kong, a number of animal protection organisations took the initiative to deal with the problem as the Government had not rolled out enough initiatives on stray animals. As such, the Government should consider relaxing the relevant licensing requirements and land use restrictions, so as to be in line with the work of animal protection organisations. AGA had also stated in its proposal its hope to use places such as abandoned school premises as spay and neuter clinics and retreat centres for animals. He hoped that the Government could provide land for such uses so as to help the organisations roll out the programme.

22. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments were as follows:

(i) There was a lot of free-ranging dogs along Ma Wo Road which was in his constituency. In other words, villagers would feed them on a regular basis, and provide them with shelters and places for rest, etc. Although the villagers did not see themselves as the owners of these dogs, and would allow them to move around

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freely instead, these dogs saw the villagers who fed them as their owners, and would shoo away wild dogs and look after the villagers’ residences, etc. These dogs might mistakenly believe that barking or showing their teeth would get them food. As such, he opined that if members of the public ran into some fierce- looking dogs, they needed not complain to the AFCD. He had dealt with a complaint case recently, where the AFCD officers arrived and caught a stray dog. Luckily, the villager who kept it in a free-ranging manner said that he was its owner, and signed the paper to give up his ownership. As a result, the dog was not euthanised after the four-day window, and was sent to the Rescue Centre for Abandoned Pets (“RCAP”). RCAP would take care of the dog for the time being, but had to pay the AFCD the relevant fees before its adoption. As such, he opined that providing RCAP with enough resources was very important. (ii) He opined that after AGA had consulted the 18 DCs, a joint meeting among the 18 districts might have to be held to discuss the details of the programme’s implementation with the AFCD together. As such, he opined that the EFAC had to set up an ad hoc Working Group to follow up specifically on the programme. Members could also suggest specific locations in their respective constituencies where the programme would be implemented, that would become the TNR locations in the district. Although the Working Group on Animal-Friendly Policies had been set up under the EFAC, its terms of reference covered a wider area, and it was difficult to convene meetings recently due to the epidemic. As he also knew that three permanent Working Groups had already been set up under the EFAC, he suggested setting up an ad hoc Working Group for the above programme first.

23. The Chairman said that the term of office of an ad hoc Working Group was eight months. As the Working Group on Animal-Friendly Policies had already been set up under the EFAC, he asked the Secretary to go through its terms of reference.

24. The Secretary said that at the meeting on 22 January 2020, the EFAC endorsed the setting up of Working Group on Animal-Friendly Policies, and the appointment of Mr. WONG Siu-kin as its Chairman. The terms of reference of the Working Group was as follows:

(i) To promote the protection of animal rights in Tai Po District and safeguard the health and well-being of animals. (ii) To step up the education and publicity efforts on animal protection in Tai Po District and enhance public understanding. (iii) To monitor the animal breeding centres and pet shops in Tai Po District so as to safeguard public hygiene and animal welfare.

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25. Mr. Richard CHAN asked whether Mr. WONG Siu-kin, as the Chairman of the Working Group on Animal-Friendly Policies, agreed to hand over the above programme to the Working Group for discussion, and to take follow-up action in a proactive manner.

26. Mr. WONG Siu-kin agreed to hand over the above programme to the Working Group for discussion for follow-up action.

27. Members supported AGA’s Project TNR 18 in principle.

28. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that the above paper mentioned that the AFCD promoted keeping pets in a responsible manner through publicity and education. He asked AGA about the difference in its public education efforts in the future with the above publicity and education of the AFCD.

29. Mr. German LAM responded as follows:

(i) AGA’s plan in the first stage was to arrange for neuter operation for stray dogs, and had planned to carry out publicity and education efforts later on. However, the details had not been set out in the above paper. (ii) He had participated in drawing up the Animal Welfare Law, and was a member of trade association for animals. He had had a number of close-door meetings with the AFCD to discuss animal welfare issues, and had talked about education matters as well. He said that he had told the AFCD on a number of occasions that it was not enough for the department to merely organise two seminars at the secondary and primary schools in Hong Kong each year, and suggested incorporating animal welfare issues into the curriculum of general studies for primary schools or liberal studies. The AFCD only responded that these matters were not under its purview, as if it was unwilling to launch the work concerned.

30. Ms. Gloria LI responded that a number of animal protection organisations, such as SPCA, had organised seminars. For Tai Po, trainers and co-ordinators of Hong Kong Dog Rescue on Kam Shan Road would also organise seminars at schools. If the schools in Members’ constituencies were interested in holding seminars for students, they were welcomed to contact her. She could help Members contact the relevant organisations to organise activities at schools to promote the message of love for animals.

31. Mr. LIN Kok-cheung, Dalu said that as AGA had planned to apply for DC Funds for the above programme in the future, he suggested AGA consider inviting a representative from each DC to be incorporated into AGA’s structure.

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32. Ms. Cliver CHAN responded that AGA also planned to organise a joint meeting after securing the 18 districts’ support for the above programme, and invite the relevant departments such as the AFCD to discuss the implementation of the programme together.

33. Mr. Dalu LIN said that he meant incorporating the DC Members of all districts into AGA’s structure.

34. Mr. German LAM responded that AGA had also considered Mr. Dalu LIN’s suggestion. They were open about it, and believed that there were many ways to co-operate, such as working together with DC Members by means of an advisory group, etc. Also, he opined that stray dogs mostly showed up on the mountains and in the bushes, and rested in the woods and gardens with grasses. As such, he believed that there were stray dogs in most of the districts.

35. Ms. Gloria LI responded that to maintain communication with the 18 DCs, AGA hoped that a representative could be selected in each DC so as to follow up on the programme with the organisation. Also, if the programme could be rolled out successfully, AGA would submit written reports to the DCs on a regular basis to outline the work that had been completed. She was worried that at that time, it would be difficult to invite DC Members of 18 districts to attend the meeting at the same time. She had initially planned to hold quarterly meetings to assess the effectiveness of the programme.

36. Mr. Richard CHAN said that Hong Kong Dog Rescue, that was mentioned by AGA not long ago, was located in his constituency. He often visited there and strongly supported its work. He said that the EFAC strongly supported AGA and the above programme. He had studied law, worked at accounting firms, been the Secretary of 50 companies and had considerable understanding of the structure and prospectus of various organisations. As such, he was extremely willing to review the framework paper for AGA. Also, he opined that Mr. Dalu LIN’s suggestion about AGA’s structure could help AGA take forward the programme. As such, he hoped that AGA would consider his suggestion in a proactive manner.

37. The Chairman reiterated that the EFAC supported AGA’s Project TNR 18 in principle, and agreed to hand over this agenda item to the Working Group on Animal-Friendly Policies for further follow-up action. Should there be major progress in the programme, he welcomed AGA to attend EFAC meetings again to report on it.

III. Introduction of green burial (TPDC Paper No. EFA 24/2020)

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38. The Chairman welcomed Mr. LEE Pak-ho, Senior Health Inspector (Administration & Development) Special Duties of the FEHD to the meeting for this agenda item.

39. Mr. LEE Pak-ho outlined Paper No. EFA 24/2020.

40. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He was in the funeral business, founder and Dean of a funeral college, and instructor of the FEHD’s internal training courses on funerals. (ii) Green burial was not just a concept about dealing with the storage of ashes. However, he opined that the Government’s initiatives on green burial were mostly focused on resolving the storage of ashes, and implementing burial at sea. (iii) He opined that apart from promoting an early planning for funeral arrangements to members of the public, green burial should also include the promotion of paper coffins, passing away at home, etc. He said that using paper coffins was originally aimed at protecting the environment and conserving timber. However, for funerals involving cremation in paper coffins, as the cremation furnace could not detect the paper coffin, a piece of timber had to be added at the bottom. As a result, it had failed to serve the original purposes of using a paper coffin. Therefore, he suggested the FEHD think about the problem. As regards passing away at home, for the traditional Chinese blessing of “Five blessings coming to one’s door”, one of the blessings referred to passing away peacefully, and passing away peacefully meant passing away at home instead of hospital. However, if someone passed away at home in Hong Kong at present, it would usually be regarded as a dead body found case, which was dealt with in a way totally different from a passing away at home case. (iv) There were two Gardens of Remembrance (“GoRs”) in Diamond Hill Cemetery. One of them was under a big tree, the other near a small bridge. To his understanding, the one under the big tree would be closed. Therefore, he found it misleading for the FEHD to state in the paper that there were two GoRs in Diamond Hill Cemetery. (v) The GoRs in Wo Hop Shek should be located in Phases III and V respectively. To his understanding, the places for commemorative plaques at the GoR in Phase III of Wo Hop Shek Cemetery would run out soon, and most members of the public knew that only the GoR in Phase V of Wo Hop Shek Cemetery was open for application. (vi) When the FEHD first rolled out burial at sea, speedboats were used to take people to the sea. However, their high speed would easily make people seasick, and their

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design would also easily kick up the ashes scattered into the sea. He commended the FEHD for providing water-soluble plastic bags made by soy beans to carry the ashes, and the arrangement had been substantially improved. He said that the FEHD’s flow of scattering ashes at sea was to provide passengers on board the ferry with the above plastic bag to carry the ashes. Passengers could drop the bag into the sea at the designated spot on the ferry. The ashes would go down immediately, and the process did not take long. He opined that efficiency should not be the only thing to consider when it came to ceremony, and time should be given to the family to bid farewell to the deceased. He said that in the burial at sea ceremony in certain countries, ashes were contained in a water-soluble ash box, which would dissolve and disintegrate slowly when dropped into the water, thus giving family time to bid farewell to the deceased. He suggested the FEHD learn from these practices and consider using ash boxes instead. (vii) He asked the FEHD whether a commemorative plaque could be set up at the GoR after burial at sea. (viii) He asked whether the FEHD’s Green Burial Central Register (“GBCR”) had any legal effect, and the preference stated by members of the public during registration was part of their wills. He said that according to the current legislation, the body was not part of the estate. As such, the will could not decide how the body should be dealt with. If the deceased had drawn up a will, the executor of the deceased could be entrusted to deal with the body. If he had not, it would be decided by the Registrar of the High Court. He hoped that the above GBCR would have legal effect, so that members of the public could truly decide how their body would be dealt with after their passing. (ix) The FEHD stated in the above paper that cremation accounted for around 95% of the total number of deceased in Hong Kong. To his understanding, there was more storage room in an urn grave space than one for ashes. Also, if the remains of a deceased had been buried in an urn grave space, his family could also apply in the future to have their ashes buried in the same urn grave space. He suggested the FEHD promote the above arrangement to members of the public. (x) He asked about the reasons for the low usage rate of the temporary ash storage facilities provided by the FEHD. (xi) He had discussed with the then-Under Secretary for Food and Health at LegCo about the arrangement for keeping abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation, but there was still no official way to hold funeral services for abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation at present. He said that abortuses of more than 24 weeks’ gestation could obtain a Certificate of Still-birth issued according to Form 13 of the Births and Deaths Registration Ordinance (Cap. 174) for burial services.

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However, such an arrangement was not applicable to abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation. He indicated that while abortuses could be kept at Garden of Forever Love under the FEHD, it was not a proper burial services. As such, he had suggested adding Form 13A to the above ordinance, so that the certificate could also be obtained for abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation for burial services. (xii) He asked the FEHD apart from Phase VI of Wo Hop Shek Cemetery, what other new cemeteries would be open in the short-coming future.

41. Mr. KWAN Wing-yip’s comments were as follows:

(i) Having referred to the above paper by the FEHD, he noticed that the number of green burials handled by the FEHD in the last decade or so had doubled, and green burials accounted for over 10% of the total number of deceased at present. He found the growth satisfactory, and opined that the FEHD had also made efforts to improve the infrastructure for green burial. To his understanding, however, after Kwai Chung Crematorium had undergone innovation, its GoR had been removed. As such, he hoped that the department would not make similar arrangements again. (ii) He commented that the doubling of green burials handled by the FEHD showed that members of the public were getting increasingly open about the concept of green burial. He also hoped that the FEHD would continue to make efforts to promote green burial and develop the related facilities. He opined that green burial was not only aimed at resolving the storage of ashes. It also represented that members of the public had the freedom to choose the arrangement after they had passed away. (iii) He asked the FEHD whether once could opt for burial or cremation for abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation. (iv) He said that there was something called “Sky burial” in Tibet, where the Tibetans would decompose the body to be eaten by animals such as vultures. He asked whether the FEHD would introduce it in Hong Kong.

42. Mr. YAM Kai-bong said that many residents had told him about their views on green burial, and he set them out as follows:

(i) The FEHD’s scattering ashes at sea services allowed a maximum of ten family members of the deceased on board the ferry for services. He said that as the FEHD had arranged for big ferries for such services, he hoped that it would consider raising the maximum to 30 people, so that all family members of the deceased could participate in the services and bid farewell to the deceased, and encourage more people to consider using the scattering ashes at sea services.

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(ii) The FEHD would provide a memorial card for the family of the deceased who had opted for scattering his ashes at sea. He suggested the FEHD also mount a commemorative plaque at the GoR for the deceased who had opted for scattering his ashes at sea, so that his family could pay their respect to ancestors according to the tradition. He also said that the schedule of memorial sails arranged by the department might not fit members of the public. As such, he hoped that the FEHD would consider providing facilities similar to a GoR in its cemeteries, so that members of the public could mount a commemorative plaque for the deceased who had his ashes scattered at sea, and pay their respect at any time they could. (iii) To his understanding, family members of the deceased were not allowed to carry out any religious ceremony at the temporary ash storage facilities provided by the FEHD at present. However, some members of the public had told him that as they had to spend a long time waiting for niches, they hoped that the department would be flexible about it. He knew that more people would pay their respects during Ching Ming Festival or Chung Yeung Festival. However, he still hoped that the FEHD would consider allowing members of the public to pay their respect to ancestors during the non-peak hours on days other than the above festivals. (iv) The FEHD had visited the DCs to introduce green burial in the past. He was pleased to see the growth in its service capacity, and opined that it could relieve the keen demand for niches in Hong Kong. As such, he hoped that the FEHD would continue to promote green burial. (v) He asked whether the FEHD could provide Members with the information as requested, and hold seminars on green burial for the residents.

43. Mr. Dalu LIN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He said that the Internet Memorial Service (“IMS”) website commenced operation in 2010. He asked the FEHD about the usage rate and effectiveness of the IMS website and the electronic kiosks in the GoRs. He opined that a total of only 3 401 registrations as at the end of 2019, as set out in the paper by the FEHD, was far from satisfactory. (ii) He considered that the user experience of the above electronic platforms was very important, and that each traditional religious ceremony had its own meaning. As such, he wondered whether the above electronic platforms could replace the traditional religious ceremonies and serve their purposes. He opined that family members all wanted to express their best wishes to the deceased through the religious ceremonies. Therefore, when designing the website, the FEHD should consider ways to allow family members to serve the purpose of religious

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ceremonies through the website. Otherwise, the website would be no different from any other website.

44. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) While he strongly supported environmental protection, having listened to the FEHD’s introduction of green burial, he might not opt for it. He would like to leave his mark after his passing. Therefore, if his ashes were to be scattered at sea of in the GoRs, it would appear to him that he had left nothing behind. (ii) Citing Mr. SZETO Wah as an example, he said that some had chosen to have half of his ashes scatted in the GoRs, and the other half at sea. He opined that one’s choice of his burial services was related to his personal belief. He also believed that members of the public would like to be buried at a location he had a strong connection with. As such, he opined that green burial should also offer different locations for ash scattering. He also opined that when promoting green burial, the FEHD should consider ways to allow the deceased who had opted for a green burial to leave behind a memento for his family to pay respect to. He was willing to help the FEHD promote green burial to the residents. (iii) He said that there were many country parks in Hong Kong. As such, he suggested the FEHD consider allowing members of the public to have their ashes scattered in country parks, and set up monuments to record the information, so as to allow members of the public to choose a burial place they had a strong connection to.

45. Mr. YIU Yeuk-sang asked about the usage rate of the FEHD’s Garden of Forever Love, and how the FEHD would promote it to ensure that people in need were aware of such services.

46. Mr. LEE Pak-ho responded as follows:

(i) He would forward the ideology of funeral services and environmental protection matters mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN to the relevant divisions of the department. (ii) The old GoR in Diamond Cemetery would be temporarily closed for works. As such, the FEHD would set up at the old GoR electronic worshipping facilities similar to the electronic kiosks in Kwai Chung Crematorium. The GoR would resume its services after the works were completed. (iii) The GoRs in Phases III (older) and V (newer) of Wo Hop Shek Cemetery were still in operation to allow members of the public to scatter ashes, and the places for commemorative plaques at the GoR in Phase III in Wo Hop Shek Cemetery had

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not been used up. As such, members of the public could still opt to scatter ashes and mount a commemorative plaque at the GoR in Phase III in Wo Hop Shek Cemetery. (iv) As the implementation of green burial in Hong Kong was still at the initial stages, the FEHD would refer to overseas experience in a timely manner, and had also noted Mr. Richard CHAN’s suggestion of using ash boxes for scattering ashes at sea. (v) The FEHD was reviewing the facilities and space usage of the 12 GoRs in its eight columbaria, which were built way back in the 1960s and 1970s. When planning for the sites, it had to consider ways to divide them into a cemetery, a crematorium, a hall, a GoR, etc. The department would also consider accepting the suggestion to allow members of the public who had opted for scattering ashes at sea to have a commemorative plaque mounted in the GoR. However, as it believed that members of the public might opt for the GoR close to the waters where the ashes were scattered, it also had to consider ways to cater for their needs. (vi) Like the Centralised Organ Donation Register (“CODR”) implemented by the Department of Health (“DH”), the GBCR was voluntary. For the CODR, even if a member of the public would like to donate his organs and had registered of his own volition, his organs could only be donated with his family’s consent after his passing, as the register was voluntary and did not have any legal effect. (vii) Members of the public could indeed place the ashes of their family members at an urn grave space. The department would enhance the publicity for the above arrangement, so as to make better uses of urns. (viii) As at the end of February 2020, the usage rate of the temporary ash bag storage facilities in Kwai Chung Crematorium was 13.9%, and that of the temporary niche storage facilities in Wo Hop Shek Columbarium Phase III was 69.3%. The average usage rate of the two was 32.4%. The FEHD was planning to expand the temporary ash storage facilities to selected locations in Hong Kong in the next two years. The department did not prohibit members of the public from visiting the temporary ash storage facilities to pay their respects. For instance, in Wo Hop Shek Columbarium Phase III, the temporary niche storage facilities and public niches were all located in the Niche Block, while incense burners and facilities for religious ceremony were available on each floor. It thus allowed family members of the deceased whose ashes were kept in the temporary niche storage facilities to use these facilities for religious ceremonies. As for the ash bags kept in Kwai Chung Crematorium on a temporary basis, while they could not be retrieved due to safety considerations, family members could still use the incense burners and facilities near the temporary ash storage facilities for religious ceremonies.

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(ix) There were 300 spaces in Garden of Forever Love. As at February and March 2020, about 100 had been taken through application. (x) Apart from some of the spaces in Wo Hop Shek Columbarium Phase VI, Tuen Mun Tsang Tsui Columbarium would also commence operation in 2020. The FEHD rolled out the district-based public columbarium development scheme in 18 districts a couple of years ago. As he had said earlier on, the GoRs in the columbaria in Diamond Hill and Kwai Chung were areas allocated by the department through re-zoning, and thus might be smaller in size. The new columbaria constructed by the department under the above scheme (such as the ones in Shek Mun and Sandy Ridge) would first reserve space for the GoRs, so as to increase their area as much as possible, and meet the public demand for scattering ashes in the GoRs. Taking Tuen Mun Tsang Tsui Columbarium as an example, its GoR was built along the sea. It was also bigger in size and could accommodate over 10 000 commemorative plaques. (xi) Based on the information he had provided, the number of green burials dealt with by the FEHD in 2019 only accounted for 14.7% of the total number of deceased in Hong Kong, showing that members of the public might not be fully open to the concept of green burial yet. As such, when implementing other burial services, the FEHD also had to consider and assess the extent to which members of the public were open to them. (xii) The FEHD had conducted a survey on the applicants who opted for scattering ashes at sea, and found that each of them had an average of four to eight family members who would get on board the ferry for the ceremony. At present, the department allowed ten family members of each applicant to participate in the ceremony, while the unused quota could be given to those with more than ten family members who would like to participate in the ceremony. As such, it was not a rigid requirement on the part of the department that each applicant had to or could only have ten family members to participate in the ceremony. Instead, the department would deal with it in a flexible manner, and would cater for each applicant’s situation wherever possible. (xiii) As for publicity, apart from arranging for the broadcasting of commercials on television channels, the FEHD had also carried out publicity work in the community on numerous occasions. As far as Tai Po District was concerned, the department had carried out publicity work at the library, wet markets, Waterfront Park and public housing estates in the district. The department also very much welcomed DC Members to contact them, and to set up street booths for publicity work.

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(xiv) The 3 401 registrations mentioned by Mr. Dalu LIN was not the number of visitors of the IMS website. Instead, it was the number of registrations on the GBCR. When designing the IMS website, the department also wanted to cater for the traditional religious ceremonies and serve their purposes. As such, a message board and e-offerings were also provided on the website. The department also hoped that family members who were living abroad could pay their respect to their ancestors through the website. While he agreed that electronic religious ceremonies had yet to become the mainstream, he also opined that members of the public needed time to change their traditional beliefs and rituals, and to accept new funeral services. For instance, when cremation was introduced in Hong Kong in the 1970s, it was not widely accepted by members of the public. However, more than 93% of members of the public in Hong Kong preferred cremation at present. The department knew that the implementation of new funeral services required a paradigm shift. However, it hoped that though continuous promotion, it would encourage members of the public to accept green burial and electronic religious ceremonies in a gradual manner. (xv) The FEHD had rolled out the district-based public columbarium development scheme in 24 selected locations in 18 districts, and hoped that columbaria could be built in 18 districts across the territory, so as to provide members of the public with more choices in terms of location. As for scattering ashes in country parks, according to Section 118 of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance (Cap. 132), for members of the public who would like to scatter ashes, they had to do so in a cemetery, and had to obtain the FEHD’s approval before doing so in places other a cemetery. (xvi) The required information for after-death arrangements in general was available at the joint offices of the FEHD, DH and Immigration Department at Wu Chung House in Wan Chai, and at Cheung Sha Wan Government Offices. (Post-meeting note: Members of the public could visit the FEHD’s homepage for the publicity information of Garden of Forever Love to find out the relevant information.)

47. The Chairman said that as Mr. Richard CHAN had asked about the information of cemeteries that would commence operation soon, he would like the FEHD to respond later on.

48. Mr. LAM Ming-yat, Nick asked whether the FEHD had visited the residential care homes for the elderly (“RCHEs”) to promote green burial.

49. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

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(i) Apart from the sky burial mentioned by Mr. KWAN Wing-yip, water burial (also known as aquamation) was also available in the United Kingdom and United States, where the deceased’s body would be immersed and dissolved in chemicals, and the bones reduced to powder through vibration, while the liquid obtained through the body’s dissolution could be used as fertilisers for plants. The pet industry in the territory had introduced and been implementing the above technique. He opined that compared with cremation, aquamation could save more fuel. As such, he suggested incorporating it into green burial. (ii) He opined that generally speaking, members of the public would hold religious ceremonies on Ching Ming Festival, Chung Yeung Festival, as well as the deceased’s dates of birth and death. Although the FEHD said that family members could still hold religious ceremonies at the temporary ash storage facilities, as the deceased’s ashes had not yet been placed in a proper niche, family members could not pay their respects at the proper niche, which explained the low usage rate of the temporary ash storage facilities provided by the FEHD. He said that the ceremony was an outlet for people to express their emotions, and the low usage rate of the temporary ash storage facilities was exactly because they could not cater for members of the public’s needs as regards funeral services. To his understanding, if members of the public would like to retrieve the ashes from the temporary storage facilities for religious ceremonies, they would have to make a new application to put the ashes back in the temporary storage facilities. He found the arrangement not satisfactory. (iii) What would be the penalty if members of the public scattered ashes on the mountains without permission? (iv) If Tuen Mun Tsang Tsui Columbarium was built by the sea, he reminded the FEHD not to repeat the mistakes in scattering ashes at sea, as the sea breeze would blow the ashes everywhere and even onto the people who scattered them. He said that while the same might also happen to the users of other GoRs, sea breeze was nonetheless stronger. As such, he hoped that the FEHD would pay attention to it and provide facilities to prevent the above situation.

50. Ms. CHAN Wai-ka, Olive said that Garden of Forever Love commenced services in April 2019. The FEHD representative said that there were 300 places, and 100 of which had been taken through application. Having gone through the information, she found that the organisations that provided free funeral services for abortuses included Garden of Forever Love, as well as Garden of Serenity built by another organisation. To her understanding, however, Garden of Serenity was almost full. Therefore, she asked whether the FEHD had plans to build more similar facilities to cater for public demand.

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51. Mr. HO Wai-lam said that cremation was introduced in Hong Kong in the 1970s. He believed that its low cost was one of the reasons why members of the public were open to it. To his understanding, the deceased who were buried in Hong Kong had to be exhumed every seven years and re-interred, but the ashes after cremation could be placed in a niche on a permanent basis. It showed that cremation cost less. Citing his personal experience, he suggested the FEHD enhance the promotion of green burial to family members of the deceased who had been buried for more than seven years, as those who were buried passed away a long time ago, and he opined that their family members might be more open to green burial.

52. Mr. Dalu LIN thanked the FEHD representative for clarifying that the figure 3 401 referred to the number of registrations on the GBCR, but not the number of registered users of the IMS website. To his understanding, the usage rate of the IMS website was not satisfactory. As such, he would like to know the relevant figures. If the FEHD could not provide the relevant figures, he hoped that it could give them to him after the meeting. He clearly knew that members of the public needed time to accept new funeral services. However, he opined that the department still had to consider from the user’s perspective how to meet the deceased’s family’s demand for holding the ceremonies on an electronic platform, so as to improve the IMS website and attract more people to use it. Also, he agreed with Mr. HO Wai-lam that the cost of funeral services was a major factor for family members to decide whether they were open to them. With the keen public demand for niches at present, he suggested the FEHD seize the opportunity to make efforts to enhance the green burial initiatives, and attract more people to opt for green burial.

53. The Chairman said that the FEHD had also introduced green burial to the DC a couple of years ago. He had also voiced his comments about the IMS website at that time, but had no idea whether the FEHD had improved on it. At that time, he knew that the size of the file containing the deceased’s biography, pictures and videos to be uploaded onto the website was capped at about 1 MB. He also already mentioned at that time that the uploading capacity was clearly not enough. As such, he asked whether the FEHD had improved the above arrangement at present.

54. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, said that the aquamation mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN was the dissolution of a deceased’s body using chemicals such as potassium hydroxide, which was commonly known as “caustic potash”. He opined that aquamation was better than cremation in the sense that it could reduce the release of gases and prevent air pollution. Meanwhile, he also strongly agreed with a Member’s view that the FEHD should improve the IMS website from the user’s perspective.

55. Mr. LEE Pak-ho responded as follows:

(i) The FEHD would visit RCHEs to promote green burial. In 2019, it had also organised a total of 61 seminars at RCHEs or day care centres (“DCCs”), etc., to

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promote green burial to the elderly people there. In 2020, due to the epidemic, a number of seminars could not be held as scheduled. However, the department had sent letters to over 1 000 RCHEs and DCCs under the Social Welfare Department, telling them that the FEHD could visit them for holding seminars, and could arrange for transportation for those who were interested to travel to the FEHD’s venue to attend seminars and visit the facilities. Some of them had replied, and had scheduled promotion activities with the department in the second half of 2020. (ii) As mentioned by him earlier, Section 118 of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance (Cap. 132) had set out the requirements on where ashes could be scattered. (iii) Although Tuen Mun Tsang Tsui Columbarium was expected to commence operation in 2020, the works concerned had yet been completed. As such, the FEHD could once again discuss with the Architectural Services Department ways to enhance the design and facilities of the GoRs, so as to prevent sea breeze from affecting those who scattered ashes at the GoR. (iv) The 300 places in Garden of Forever Love were not for keeping abortuses on a permanent basis, and the application form had also set out that the FEHD could re- allocate the keeping spaces concerned through application after the abortuses had been kept properly and returned to nature. However, the department also planned to build similar facilities in Cape Collinson Crematorium, for members of the public to keep abortuses of less than 24 weeks’ gestation. (v) Since 2018, the FEHD would set up booths in the cemeteries during Ching Ming Festivals, etc., to hand out pamphlets to members of the public to introduce and promote green burial. (vi) As at April 2020, 823 pages had been created for the deceased on the IMS website in 2020, while the total number for the entire 2019 was around 1 600. The usage rate in the first four months in 2020 had increase by more than 50% compared with last year’s figure. The department speculated that the increase in the number of users was due to their answering to the Government’s appeal to create a page on the IMS website instead of tending to graves in this year’s Ching Ming Festival. (vii) As for the uploading capacity of videos of the IMS website, users at present could first upload their videos onto other platforms, and then keyed in the video encoding code of other websites onto the IMS website. As such, the video size was not subject to the uploading capacity of the IMS website. As for pictures, there was indeed a limit of five pictures at present. The department was reviewing the uploading capacity, user’s experience and interface of the website with the information technology staff at present

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(Post-meeting note: The FEHD said that the uploading capacity for pictures of the IMS website was 10 MB.)

56. Mr. WONG Siu-kin opined that they key of green burial was that members of the public had the freedom to choose their funeral arrangement. He also asked the FEHD whether members of the public could opt for funeral services other than green burial at present.

57. Mr. Dalu LIN asked whether the FEHD could provide data such as the usage rate of the IMS website after the meeting.

58. Mr. LEE Pak-ho said that the GBCR was of a voluntary nature, and the final decision on the funeral services of a deceased rested on his family members. The department hoped that the promotion on the GBCR would encourage members of the public to discuss their funeral arrangement with family members in advance. Also, he could provide Mr. Dalu LIN with the relevant information after the meeting.

(Post-meeting note: The FEHD said that the number of memorial pages newly created in 2018 and 2019 was 1 691 and 1 612 respectively. As at June 2020, there were as many as 2 055 newly created memorial pages this year.)

IV. Inviting the Environmental Protection Department and the operator of “Tai Po District Community Green Station” to introduce the work of “Tai Po District Community Green Station” (TPDC Papers No. EFA 25/2020 and EFA 26/2020)

59. The Chairman welcomed Ms. WONG Wai-ling, Senior Environmental Protection Officer (Waste Management Policy) 4 of the EPD; as well as Ms. LEUNG Nga-kwan, Angel and Ms. CHONG Siu-man, Services Supervisor and Project Manager respectively of the HCA, the operator of Tai Po District Community Green Station (“TPDCGS”), to the meeting for this agenda item.

60. Mr. YAM Kai-bong outlined Paper No. EFA 25/2020, and opined that the TPDCGS should enhance the co-operation between the community and residents, so as to enhance its effectiveness. Therefore, he hoped that the EPD and HCA, the TPDCGS’ operator, could outline the TPDCGS’ work in the future, and discuss with Members ways of co-operation.

61. Ms. WONG Wai-ling outlined Paper No. EFA 26/2020 and summarised as follows:

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(i) The CGS was mainly aimed at promoting environmental education and supporting recycling services in the community. (ii) The TPDCGS had been serving the community since October 2019, and had organised a series of publicity and public education activities to promote environmental education, such as promoting recycling programmes on “Use Less, Waste Less”, etc. Also, green workshops and parent-child environmental activities would also be held at the TPDCGS, so as to bring a green lifestyle to the Tai Po community through different channels. (iii) The current operator of the TPDCGS was the HCA, which had been in contact with the housing estates, property management offices and schools in the district since October 2019 to promote messages of environmental education, “Use Less, Waste Less”, “Clean recycling”, etc. As for supporting the recycling services in the community, to provide Tai Po residents with convenient and easily accessible recycling channels, and encourage them to participate in recycling programmes, the HCA had set up fixed recyclable collection points for the residents in the district, rolled out reward schemes to encourage them to recycle, provided recycling vehicles, set up mobile recycling spots, etc., so as to get into the community to collect the recyclables and promote recycling in Hong Kong. The HCA would visit the housing estates that had expressed their consent to collect the recyclables. (iv) To enhance the TPDCGS’ services, the HCA had also set up professional social platforms, such as dedicated pages on Facebook, to deliver to the residents the latest information about the location of its mobile recyclable collection points, environmental workshops, etc.

62. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He strongly supported the TPDCGS and environmental protection. (ii) He was working with the TPDCGS and had set up a recyclable collection point in his ward office. With a weight of several dozen kilogrammes, the recyclables included aluminium cans, plastic, paper, etc. The recyclable collection point had been in operation for months, and he also noticed that there was a lot of waste paper and plastic among the recyclables. He said that according to the waste reduction policy promulgated by the EPD not long ago, source separation was mainly aimed at collecting the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers”. To his understanding, the policy was implemented in accordance with the Mainland’s initiatives to bar recyclables with impurities. However, he opined that if the above policy was implemented in Hong Kong, it might be at odds with the TPDCGS’ implementation.

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(iii) He asked the EPD, if the source separation implemented by the department was mainly aimed at collecting the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers”, so that the three-colour waste separation bins would only collect the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers”, whether the waste paper and plastic among them could be handed over to the TPDCGS for recycling. (iv) He hoped that the EPD would clarify to members of the public that waste paper and plastic other than the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers” were not un-recyclable. To his understanding, some paper mills in Hong Kong were promoting the local economy by processing recycled waste paper into environmentally friendly tissue rolls. He strongly supported the industry, but was worried that the EPD’s policy of only recycling the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers” would give members of the public a false impression that other assorted waste paper and plastic could not be recycled. To his understanding, the CGS was the major channel to recycle waste paper and places other than the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers”. As such, he hoped that the EPD would promulgate the above message to members of the public. (v) Although three-colour waste separation bins had been provided in the rural area, the refuse collection points (“RCPs”) still did not separate the refuse. Also, apart from waste paper, plastic and aluminium cans, there was still a lot of refuse that could be recycled. He suggested the FEHD work with the EPD to set up respective collection bins for other refuse such as foam rubber, assorted waste paper, paper beverage package, etc. He noticed that there were all sorts of refuse in the RCPs in the rural area, but these refuse could be recycled by the TPDCGS. He knew that members of the public did not know much about recycling, but he was happy to promote the concepts and practice to them. (vi) He said that the TPDCGS’ disadvantages were that most of the recyclable collection points under the scheme were located in the remote area. He also opined that even with a reward scheme, that would still discourage a lot of people to participate in it.

63. Mr. YAM Kai-bong’s comments were as follows:

(i) As the TPDCGS’s Facebook page did not have a lot of followers and “Likes”, he found it necessary for the EPD and operator to promote it in a more proactive manner. (ii) As mentioned by Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, the TPDCGS’ recyclable collection points were rather inaccessible for members of the public as they were

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remotely located somewhere near Yue Kok Tsuen in Tai Po Industrial Estate. He considered it necessary to ensure that residents could send their materials to the recyclable collection points on a regular basis. Although the operator would announce the location of recyclable collection points in the district on the social platform, he hoped that the operator could enhance the promotion efforts, and especially to the major residential developments and public housing estates in the district, as the population density there was high, and a lot of recyclable household refuse, such as “regulated electrical and electronic equipment”, fluorescent lamps, glasses, plastics, etc. would be produced there. (iii) Residents tended to be more proactive to bring items that were still more valuable, such as waste paper, metal, plastics, etc., to the recycling vehicles. Therefore, he hoped that the operator would be more proactive to encourage residents to recycle waste that was less valuable. (iv) He knew that the liaison work with the community could not be completed in a short amount of time. However, he hoped that the operator would be more proactive to contact DC Members, as well as the residential developments in the district and their corporations. He noted that the operator mainly kept the recyclables in metal cages at the recyclable collection points. He suggested the operator work together with the corporations of residential developments, the management companies of shopping arcades, etc., and ask them to set up metal cages to collect the recyclables, so as to save the operator’s manpower resources, and provide more recyclable collection points for residents, who would no longer have to keep the recyclables at home for a while before sending them to the remotely located recyclable collection points, and thus be encouraged to participate in the scheme. Such an arrangement could also prevent the situation where outdoor recyclable collection points could not be set up due to inclement weather. (v) He reiterated his hope that the operator could enhance the TPDCGS’ publicity efforts, and expressed his belief that DC Members would all be willing to help promote it. As such, he hoped that the operator could provide DC Members with the information on the recyclable collection points, so that they could promote the scheme to the residents.

64. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He opined that as the role of the EPD and the TPDCGS’ operator was to promote environmental protection, they should have lived up to their environmental protection belief by not printing promotional leaflets. (ii) To his knowledge, the TPDCGS’ operator collected second-hand clothing and books from time to time for “book-floating”. He said that as there were many

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pavilions in the rural area, he asked whether the FEHD and TPDO could provide facilities at the pavilions for “book-floating” by residents. Such an arrangement would also be in line with the TPDCGS.

65. Ms. WONG Wai-ling responded as follows:

(i) As far as environmental protection policies were concerned, the TPDCGS currently collected nine types of recyclables in total, not just waster paper and plastic. Also, the department would consider collecting other recyclables with reference to market mobility and recycling facilities. For instance, as regards paper beverage package mentioned by Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, the Recycling Fund had allocated funding to a recycler to set up a factory for collecting and recycling paper beverage package. To align with the Recycling Fund, the CGS had been promulgating the message of “Clean Recycling” to members of the public since October 2019, and had held seminars, etc., to promote the recycling of paper beverage package. (ii) The department knew that the TPDCGS centre, located at Tai Po Industrial Estate, was far away from people’s home. As such, it had also set up other street booths in the district as recyclable collection points in a proactive manner. She said she understood Members’ comment that members of the public might need time to know and get used to the location of mobile recyclable collection points. The reason why the department had set up the mobile recyclable collection points was to collect the recyclables, and to allow more residents to know about the TPDCSG in a mobile manner at the initial stages of the scheme. Therefore, it would also serve the publicity purpose. The department would discuss with the HCA, the TPDCGS’s operator, as regards setting up regular and fixed recyclable collection points in the district, so as to make it easier for members of the public to deliver materials for recycling. (iii) The department had been thinking about setting up recycling facilities in major residential developments, and the TPDCGS’ work had been ongoing inside and outside the recyclable collection points. The HCA had contacted over 75 residential developments, and would send recycling vehicles there to collect the recyclables, so as to further expand the recycling network. (iv) For the old, “three-nil” and single tenement buildings in the district, given the remote location of the TPDCGS centre, the EPD’s overall policies also included the timely provision of Community Recycling Centres (“CRCs”) in addition to rolling out the TPDCGS. At present, Tai Po District had one CRC, which played a similar role to the TPDCGS and mainly recycled eight types of items.

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66. Mr. MA Hong-chiu said that with effect from 31 August 2020, management of three-colour waste separation bins would be handed over to the EPD, which would then be mainly responsible for the recycling efforts. He could forward Members’ comments about adding different types of recyclables to the FEHD Headquarters (“HQs”), who would study its feasibility with the EPD. Also, the provision of recycling facilities at pavilions had to be considered by the management department of pavilions (such as the AFCD or TPDO), and the FEHD had not set up any refuse bins at pavilions.

67. Ms. LEE Ching-yee, Patty responded that the pavilions at the rural area mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN were supposedly built by the TPDO’s Works Section, and were mainly for members of the public to rest and relax. If the pavilions had to be turned into other uses, they first had to make sure that the new uses would not affect the original uses mentioned above. Also, if the suggested uses could benefit members of the public, the TPDO would be open to them, but still had to study the details of the suggested uses and actual operation.

68. Mr. Dalu LIN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) To his understanding, the recyclables in the three-colour waste separation bins had not been recycled, but were sent to the reclamation area instead, and this problem had been around for a long time. He asked the EPD how to deal with it, as it was going to take over the management of the bins. (ii) The items recycled by the three-colour waste separation bins lacked varieties and the requirements outdated. As such, he asked whether the EPD would improve the scheme. (iii) He opined that recycling had to begin at home, and cleaning the recyclables was an important process when dealing with them. He understood that members of the public who delivered the recyclables had a duty to keep them clean, and therefore would like to know in terms of the EPD’s public education efforts on keeping the recyclables clean, how DC Members could help.

69. Mr. YIU Yeuk-sang said that a lot of recyclables, such as plastic bottles and wooden planks, could be found among the floating refuse. As such, he suggested the TPDCGS consider processing and recycling floating refuse.

70. Mr. Richard CHAN was happy to see that the TPDO was open to his suggestion of providing facilities at pavilions for “book-floating”, and suggested the EFAC hand over the agenda item to the working group concerned for follow-up actions. Also, as the EPD would take over the management of three-colour waste separation bins with effect from 31 August, he hoped that the

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EPD’s division responsible for three-colour waste separation bins could send a representative to attend EFAC meetings on a regular basis, and submit a work report at each meeting.

71. The Chairman said that the matters related to “book-floating” could be handed over to the Working Group on Environmental Protection and Improvement under the EFAC for follow-up actions.

72. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman’s comments were as follows:

(i) Not long ago, he had discussed recycling matters with a LegCo Member, who had doubts about the effectiveness and recycling capacity of the TPDCGS. Therefore, he opined that the EPD should set up more recyclable collection points and recycling centres in the district, lest the scheme be called off due to ineffectiveness. (ii) As the management of three-colour waste separation bins would be handed over to the EPD soon, he suggested the EPD study ways to enhance their effectiveness during this transition period, and provide more of them to increase the varieties of the recyclables. For instance, plastics not belonging to the “three types of waste paper and two types of waste plastic containers” could also be recycled and handed over to the TPDCGS for assistance. (iii) He also agreed that the effectiveness of the recycling programme depended on whether members of the public had developed a recycling habit. As such, he suggested the EPD first set up street booths near the RCPs to recycle various types of recyclables such as fluorescent tubes, foam rubber, paper beverage package, etc., so as to encourage members of the public to develop a recycling habit. Then the EPD would set up the three-colour waste separation bins there to allow members to deliver recyclables on their own, and such an arrangement could also reduce the manpower needed to manage the recyclable collection points. (iv) He considered that DC Members could call on members of the public who supported environmental protection and allow them to help promote the TPDCGS, so as to provide manpower for the scheme.

73. Mr. YAM Kai-bong commented that other government departments should complement the TPDCGS in a proactive manner, and allowed its operator to set up recyclable collection points at the departments’ venues, such as shopping arcades at the Housing Department’s (“HD’s”) housing estates, the FEHD’s RCPs, the TPDO’s community halls or the LCSD’s parks so as to expand the recycling network, and make it easier for and encourage residents to recycle. Also, he opined that if the TPDCGS’ operator had problems contacting the organisations in the community, he was more than willing to help and promote the scheme.

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74. Mr. Dalu LIN agreed with Mr. YAM Kai-bong, opining that providing more recyclable collection points was very important, and he was more than willing to help. He said that some eateries took the initiative and suggested to him that they could provide recycling services at the eateries. Even if the suggestion was not feasible, it had shown him that there were many channels for recycling. In addition, he suggested the FEHD discuss with the EFAC after the meeting the feasibility of setting up resource collection points at the RCPs. He knew that it would take time for recycling initiatives and members of the public to gel, but he still hoped that the FEHD could first study the feasibility of the above suggestion.

75. Ms. WONG Wai-ling responded as follows:

(i) The FEHD would hand over the management of three-colour waste separation bins to the EPD, which would set up a designated division to follow up on the issues. She could ask the officers of the division concerned to answer questions on the relevant issues. (ii) As regards a LegCo Member’s comment about the insufficient recycling capacity of the TPDCGS, she would like to reiterate that the TPDCGS had two major functions, namely supporting the recycling services in the community, and promoting environmental education. As such, the recycling capacity was not the only benchmark when reviewing its effectiveness. In addition, the EPD had also reached an agreement with the CGS operator in every district, stipulating that a certain amount of recyclables or a certain number of education workshops had to be reached and held respectively. Therefore, when reviewing the scheme’s effectiveness, the EPD would not only refer to the benchmark of recycling capacity, but also take into account the implementation of environmental education. (iii) The EPD would like to send the messages of “Clean recycling”, environmental protection, etc. to members of the public through the CGS. She strongly agreed with Members’ views that at present, it was difficult to rely on the provision of recycling bins alone to encourage members of the public to deliver recyclables in a disciplined manner. As such, the department hoped that through the CGS, members of the public would realise that recycling required public support, and a recycling network could only be created through the clean cycling initiated by members of the public. (iv) Apart from the recycling centres under the TPDCGS, to make it easier for members of the public to recycle, the EPD had also set up a community recycling centre in Tai Po District. The department was also considering the provision of recurrent funding so as to set up more community recycling centres throughout the territory.

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(v) The TPDCGS mainly recycled eight kinds of recyclables for members of the public at present. She could not respond to the matters relating to the recycling of floating refuse for the time being.

76. Ms. CHONG Siu-man thanked Members’ support for the TPDCGS, and responded as follows:

(i) She agreed with Members’ views that publicity and education were the keys to promoting environmental protection. The TPDCGS’ main goals were also publicity and education, and it would organise a number of workshops each week to teach members of the public about the source separation of refuse. (ii) Separation facilities were also available at the TPDCGS centre. When members of the public visited the centre, its staff would brief them about the facilities. The scheme was rolled out in October 2019, and public response was positive. Some members of the public even separated the items properly and delivered them to the recycling facilities of the centre. The HCA would focus on education, and planned to visit the residential developments in the district to organise recycling days, workshops, carnivals, etc., with the hope of telling the residents more about the TPDCGS and source separation through various channels such as games, dramas, seminars, etc. (iii) Setting up street booths required the approval of the TPDLO, HD and other relevant government departments, and the application procedures would take about two to three months. She agreed that setting up street booths in more residential developments would help enhance the scheme’s effectiveness, and therefore would make efforts to launch the work concerned. (iv) The HCA had earlier submitted information to DC Members, and agreed that they had more opportunities to interact with members of the public. In addition, the HCA had also co-organised activities with Mr. SO Tat-leung before, and therefore hoped that it could work with more DC Members in a similar way, so that the TPDCGS could put down roots in the community.

77. The Chairman expressed his belief that all Members supported the TPDCGS, and he welcomed the HCA to contact DC Members after the meeting.

78. Mr. NG Yiu-lun, Johnny responded that the MD did not separate the floating refuse collected from sea for the time being, but had participated in the joint cleaning operations co-ordinated by the EPD and jointly organised with environmental groups. During these operations, the environmental groups would first process items that could be separated for recycling, and hand over the refuse that could not be recycled to the department for processing.

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79. Mr. Richard CHAN hoped that the EPD could respond as to whether the division responsible for three-colour waste separation bins could send a representative to attend EFAC meetings on a regular basis.

80. As regards a Member’s request for the EPD’s division responsible for three-colour waste separation bins to send a representative to attend EFAC meetings and submit a work report to the EFAC on a regular basis, The Chairman asked the EPD to respond to the EFAC after the meeting.

81. Mr. Dalu LIN would like to clarify that the issues relating to recycling centres that he was talking about not long ago, included the suggestion for the FEHD to convert its RCPs to recycling centres. He would also like to invite the departments concerned to discuss its feasibility after the meeting.

82 The Chairman asked the departments concerned to note Mr. Dalu LIN’s comments for follow-up actions and discussion after the meeting.

V. Report on the assistance provided for the agricultural industry by the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department and matters concerning the mariculture industry in March and April 2020 (TPDC Paper No. EFA 27/2020 (Revised))

(1) Assistance provided for the agricultural industry by the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department

83. Ms. HUI Yuk-ting, Rachel reported as follows:

(i) In March and April 2020, the AFCD had provided farmers with free farm machinery lending services, which included the lending of cultivator tillers 36 times, weed burners and brush cutters 26 times, and other farm machineries 23 times. (ii) The department did not organise any technical seminar during the above period. (iii) At the previous meeting, the EFAC asked the department to provide the data for 2018 and 2019, which had been set out in the above paper. In 2018, the department had provided farmers with the lending of cultivator tillers 351 times, weed burners and brush cutters 260 times, and other farm machineries 197 times. In the same year, the department had organised nine and ten technical seminars at Tai Lung Farm and the agricultural area respectively. In 2019, the department

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had provided farmers with the lending of cultivator tillers 290 times, weed burners and brush cutters 244 times, and other farm machineries 159 times. In the same year, the department had organised 13 and 24 technical seminars at Tai Lung Farm and the agricultural area respectively. (iv) The agricultural information of Tai Po District had been set out in Annex II to the above paper. She outlined the paper concerned.

84. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He applauded the report on agricultural information of Tai Po District prepared by the AFCD. (ii) The active agricultural land in Tai Po District accounted for less than 15% of the total agricultural land in the district. He asked the AFCD whether it had any policies to encourage famers to rehabilitate the agricultural land. (iii) Rice growing was popular in Lam Tsuen in the 1960s and 1970s, and some of its crops were even exported to the United States at that time. With the water quality meeting the standard at present, he asked whether the AFCD had encouraged growing rice again. (iv) A kind of maize, which could be harvested in around 60 to 90 days, was being grown in a number of farms in Lam Tsuen. He opined that this specie could be promoted and developed as a local brand, and he hoped that the AFCD could enhance its assistance given to the vegetable farmers in the district. (v) He asked whether the pig farms in the district that had been closed could resume business.

85. Ms. Rachel HUI responded as follows:

(i) The AFCD had been running the Agricultural Land Rehabilitation Scheme (“ALRS”) to help farmers resume agricultural activities in fallow private agricultural lands. Under the ALRS, the department acted as the middleman who helped landowners and tenant farmers reach an agreement regards land lease conditions. In addition, the department would also provide farmers with support for land rehabilitation, such as lending farm machinery for ploughing the agricultural lands, offering technical guidance, and providing low-interest agricultural loans, etc. (ii) The departments’ Horticulture Section studied rice production in Tai Lung Farm. Its staff would also hold seminars on a regular basis to promote new crop species

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to farmers and impart knowledge on them, such as the maize mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN, as well as netting melons and water melons, etc. (iii) She did not belong to the section responsible for poultry farms. To her knowledge, members of the public who would like to apply to operate a poultry farm had to comply with the relevant legislations, and apply for licences from government departments such as the AFCD, EPD, etc. If Members would like to have more information about it, she could ask the officers from the departments’ relevant section to provide it after the meeting.

86. Mr. TAM Yi-pui’s comments were as follows:

(i) Not long ago, he talked to some young people who were waiting to participate in the above ALRS to find out their situation. He would like to know if the AFCD would take the initiative to contact the owners of abandoned agricultural lands, and match the abandoned agricultural lands with the applicants who were interested in rehabilitating the lands through the ALRS. (ii) He had asked the owners of abandoned agricultural lands in Tai Mun about their intention to open their lands. Due to the sparse and ageing population in Tap Mun, he hoped that the young people who were interested in rehabilitating the lands there would also manage the villages in Tap Mun and their facilities. (iii) He hoped that the AFCD would promote the ALRS in an even more proactive manner. (iv) He was inviting the residents in his constituency to discuss the implementation of “Local group buying”, where the crops produced in the district would be sold throughout the territory so as to promote sustainable development and promote the local economy.

87. Ms. Rachel HUI responded that as regards the ALRS, it was mainly carried out by the owners of private agricultural lands expressing their interests in participating in the scheme to the AFCD, who would match with the applicants on the waiting lists. Members who knew any land owners who were interested in participating in the above scheme were also welcomed to contact the department so as to promote the local economy.

88. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that to his knowledge, “aquaponics” referred to the use of fish’ excretions as the nutrients for growing vegetables, and these vegetables would also be used as fish food. He opined that this concept could promote sustainable development, and pointed out that the AFCD, in the above paper, had also talked about organic farming. As such, he hoped that the AFCD would provide information on “aquaponics”.

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89. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) In the above paper, the AFCD stated that 176 vegetable farms in the district had participated in the Local Vegetable Farm Voluntary Registration Scheme, and 39 farms in the district had registered for the “Organic Farming Support Service”. Together” scheme. He asked whether the AFCD could provide the list concerned. (ii) He suggested handing over issues related to land rehabilitation and poultry farming to the EFAC’s Working Group on Promotion of Local Economy for follow-up action.

90. Ms. Rachel HUI responded as follows:

(i) To her understanding, the department’s section responsible for Tai Lung Farm maintained close contact with hydroponic farmers and had provided them with assistance. “Aquaponics” were also agriculture-related matters. As such, the department would also provide technical support for regular farms, organic farms and hydroponics farms as usual. (ii) She would forward Mr. Richard CHAN’s request to the officers of the department’s relevant sections and give a response later.

91. The Chairman asked whether the AFCD could send anyone to the meetings of the EFAC’s Working Group on Promotion of Local Economy.

92. Ms. Rachel HUI responded that she would forward Mr. Richard CHAN’s above request to the department’s relevant section for follow-up action.

93. Mr. Richard CHAN asked whether a licence was needed to keep goats in Hong Kong.

94. Ms. Rachel CHAN responded that to her understanding, licence was not needed to keep goats in the New Territories.

(2) Matters concerning the mariculture industry and other fisheries

95. Mr. TANG Wing-kai, Ricky outlined Annex III to the captioned paper and reported as follows:

(i) Between March and April 2020, the AFCD had inspected a total of 21 marine fish culture zones (“FCZs”), of which nine were located in Tai Po District.

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(ii) The AFCD did not receive any report of fish disease outbreak at the marine FCZs in Tai Po District during the afore-mentioned period. In 2018 and 2019, one and three fish disease outbreak reports were received respectively. (iii) The AFCD did not receive any red tide report in the waters of Tai Po District during the afore-mentioned period. In 2018 and 2019, seven and eight red tide reports were received respectively. (iv) Since the launch of the Accredited Fish Farm Scheme, there were 119 accredited fish farms in Hong Kong, of which 31 were located in Tai Po District. As at March 2020, the total sales volume of quality fish products sold by the Fish Marketing Organisation (“FMO”) had exceeded 630 000 catties. (v) The AFCD successfully intercepted two vessels suspected of illegal fishing activities in the waters of Tai Po District during the afore-mentioned period, and the investigation for these two cases were underway. In 2018 and 2019, a total of two prosecutions were initiated as regards illegal fishing in the waters of Tai Po District.

96. Mr. LAM Yick-kuen would like to know which department was responsible for following up on illegal fishing, and said that he had received pictures and videos from a number of fishermen recently, complaining about Mainland fishing vessels often carrying out illegal fishing at the waters in the district. He said that although he said contacted the departments concerned and told them about the issues, he also urged the departments concerned to step up their fight against illegal fishing, lest the livelihood of local fishermen be affected.

97. Mr. Richard CHAN’s questions were as follows:

(i) He asked whether the AFCD could provide the list of accredited fish farms in the district. (ii) He had tried but could not contact The Federation of Fishermen’s Co-operative Societies of Tai Po District, New Territories, Limited. As such, he would like to know if the AFCD had worked with the above organisation.

98. Mr. AU Chun-wah said that some young fishermen told him that the fishermen’ associations and societies in the district were dominated by certain parties, making it difficult for them to join and voice their views. He said that these fishermen would like to set up a new fishermen’s society and had contacted the AFCD about it, but their plan was not successful. He hoped that the AFCD could help these fishermen set up a fishermen’s society, and asked the AFCD whether certain conditions had to be met so as to set up a society. He welcomed a detailed discussion on the matters concerned with the AFCD after the meeting.

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99. Mr. Ricky TANG responded as follows:

(i) The law enforcement work on illegal fishing was mainly carried out by the AFCD. From March to April, the department had also received complaints and intelligence as regards illegal fishing activities in the district. As such, it had increased the number of patrols during the said period, and had successfully intercepted two fishing vessels suspected of illegal fishing activities. The department was investigating these two cases, and would initiate prosecution if there was enough evidence. In addition, the department had also been keeping a close eye on the situation in the waters of the district, and would make corresponding plans based on the intelligence and information gathered. (ii) There was another section in the AFCD responsible for communicating with fishermen’s societies. The department would monitor the fishermen’s societies according to the Co-operative Societies Ordinance. He could forward the views to the department’s relevant section, and follow up on the matters with Mr. Richard CHAN. (iii) The above section of the department was also responsible for offering advice to fishermen who would like to set up a new fishermen’s society. In addition, fishermen’ associations were usually set up by fishermen on their own, and there was also another section in the department responsible for liaising with fishermen’ associations. He could forward Mr. AU Chun-wah’s views to the relevant section of the department. (Post-meeting note: The AFCD had contacted Mr. Richard CHAN, provided information of accredited fish farms, and explained the matters related to fishermen’s societies. In addition, the AFCD had also contacted Mr. AU Chun-wah and explained the matters related to setting up a fishermen’s organisation.)

100. The Chairman asked, for the two illegal fishing cases that were under investigation according to the AFCD’s report above, whether the fishermen involved were all Mainlanders.

101. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that for the two cases, one involved a local, and the other a Mainlander.

102. Mr. YAM Kai-bong would like to know under what circumstances, or carrying fishing in what locations, would a local fisherman be regarded as carrying out illegal fishing activities. He also asked the AFCD whether local fishermen had to obtain a licence for fishing.

103. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that the department would issue the eligible local fishermen with a Certificate of Registration of Local Fishing Vessel, that would allow them to carry out

- 41 - fishing in Hong Kong, according to the Fisheries Protection Ordinance. Fishermen who carried out fishing activities in vessels without the above certificate could be regarded as carrying out fishing illegally.

104. Mr. AU Chun-ho would like to know whether Mainland fishing vessels carrying out fishing in Hong Kong waters would be regarded as entering Hong Kong illegally.

105. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that the AFCD was mainly responsible for following up on the illegal fishing issues, and would hand over the cases to the HKPF to see if illegal entry was involved.

106. Mr. LAM Yick-kuen said some fishermen hold told him that a number of Mainland fishing vessels carried out fishing in Hong Kong waters every day. However, the law enforcement efforts of the departments concerned were apparently not strong enough. As the fishing moratorium was in effect at the moment, he hoped that the AFCD could increase its manpower and enhance the law enforcement officers’ equipment after the moratorium, and study ways to increase the penalties on illegal fishing, so as to enhance the deterrent effects on Mainland fishing vessels.

107. The Chairman said that as mentioned by Mr. LAM Yick-kuen, illegal fishing was serious in the district, and the relevant department’s ways to crack down on it through patrol and chasing were apparently ineffective. As such, he also suggested the department increase the penalties so as to enhance the deterrent effects.

108. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that the AFCD was mainly responsible for taking law enforcement actions and gathering evidence, and would also submit the relevant evidence to Court for its consideration. According to the Fisheries Protection Ordinance (Cap. 161), offenders were liable to a maximum fine of HK$200,000 and an imprisonment of up to six months. The department could consider forwarding the views on increasing the penalties to the judiciary in a timely manner. In addition, as he had just mentioned, the department would enhance the patrol at the waters where the illegal fishing blackspots were based on the intelligence gathered.

109. Mr. AU Chun-ho suggested the EFAC invite the Marine Police or Tai Po Police District to attend the next meeting, and explain to Members ways to deal with the illegal entry problems stemming from illegal fishing.

110. The Chairman said that he could study after the meeting whether the matters concerned were under the purview of the Immigration Department (“ImmD”), and invite the department to explain on them.

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111. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that there was supposed to be a committee under the DC for discussing immigration matters, such as the illegal entry problems stemming from illegal fishing. However, the TPDO had reservations about the committee’s terms of reference earlier on. As such, he hoped that the EFAC Chairman or Mr. KWAN Wing-yip, the TPDC Chairman, could forward the EFAC’s concerns about the issues above to the TPDO.

112. The Chairman agreed with Mr. MAN Nim-chi’s comments above, and hoped that Mr. KWAN Wing-yip, the TPDC Chairman, could forward their views to the TPDO.

113. Mr. KWAN Wing-yip said that he had discussed the matters concerned with the TPDO in the last month or so, while Mr. AU Chun-wah had also submitted the revised terms of reference to the TPDO and was waiting for its reply. He would forward the matters concerned to Tai Po District Officer, and hoped that Ms. Patty LEE could help forward DC Members’ concerns to Tai Po District Officer.

114. Mr. Dalu LIN asked the AFCD whether gathering evidence was the most difficult procedure in terms of cracking down on illegal fishing.

115. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that the department would do its best to intercept the fishing vessels concerned. Due to the limited area of Hong Kong waters, fishing vessels might escape from it. The department would carry out joint operations with the Marine Police so as to intercept fishing vessels suspected for illegal fishing.

116. Mr. Dalu LIN expressed his understanding that it was difficult to chase after fishing vessels at sea, and said that he had asked the fishermen about the problems concerned. As such, he suggested the AFCD consider working with fishermen to allow them to assist in the department’s action. In addition, he said a farmer had earlier told him that while he had been selling the organic vegetables he had planted to the Vegetable Marketing Organization (“VMO”), he found the VMO’s pricing unreasonable as it was below market price. As such, he would like to know how the VMO came up with the price concerned.

117. Mr. Richard CHAN suggested the EFAC invite the Marine Police, ImmD and Labour Department to further discuss the illegal fishing issues above

118. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that in terms of cracking down on illegal fishing, the AFCD had been receiving the information and intelligence provided by fishermen, and would continue to communicate with various fishermen’s organisations.

119. Mr. Rachel HUI responded that although the VMO was not managed by the AFCD, the AFCD also had a section responsible for contacting it. She could not provide information as to

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how the VMO came up with the vegetable’s wholesale price for the time being, but could contact the officers of the relevant section later on and then answer the questions posed.

120. The Chairman asked the AFCD to provide the above information for the EFAC after the meeting. In addition, the Chairman said that as the EFAC had expressed its hope that the AFCD could arrange for the EFAC to visit the FMO, now that the epidemic had eased, he would like the AFCD to take follow-up action.

121. Mr. Ricky TANG responded that another section of the department had contacted the Secretariat, and would continue to follow up on the above visit.

(Post-meeting note: The EFAC visited the FMO Aberdeen Wholesale Fish Market on 24 June 2020.)

VI. Report on the quantity of refuse collected from Tolo Harbour by the Marine Department and the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department in March and April 2020 (TPDC Papers No. EFA 28/2020 and EFA 29/2020)

122. Mr. Johnny NG reported that the MD contractors had collected 16.4 tonnes and 16.8 tonnes of floating refuse in Tolo Harbour in March and April 2020 respectively. Meanwhile, the data for 2018 and 2019 had also been set out in Paper No. EFA 28/2020.

123. Mr. MA Hon-chiu reported that the FEHD had collected 8.37 tonnes and 6.61 tonnes of coastal refuse in Tolo Harbour in March and April 2020 respectively.

124. Members did not have any comments or questions.

VII. Refurbishment works of Fong Ma Po Public Toilet (TPDC Paper No. EFA 30/2020)

125. Mr. MA Hon-chiu outlined the above paper.

126. Mr. Richard CHAN said that the public toilet concerned was located in his constituency. This award-winning public toilet was the most expensive one in Hong Kong in terms of construction cost. He supported its refurbishment works, and had the following comments and questions:

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(i) He suggested the department consider adding environmental protection elements into the public toilet, such as installing a solar energy harvesting system, solar powered lamps, solar mosquito lamps, etc. (ii) The telecommunication system in Lam Tsuen was poor. As LegCo had proposed installing telecommunication signal transceivers at public facilities, would the FEHD consider installing these facilities at the public toilet? (iii) There was serious soil erosion in the slope behind the public toilet. He knew that slope maintenance works might not be part of the above refurbishment works. However, as he was worried that the unstable slope might affect the safety of the public toilet, he still hoped that the FEHD would follow up on it.

127. Mr. LAM Yick-kuen said he supported the above works. However, he said that as the Well-Wishing Festival was held in Lam Tsuen every Chinese New Year and had attracted a lot of people, he hoped that the FEHD could finish the works before the large-scale activity for the convenience of members of the public. In addition, he also hoped that the FEHD would enhance the communication with the village heads in the area concerned, telling them the details of the works.

128. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that the number of stalls in female toilet would be reduced from 12 to 11 after the refurbishment works. As mentioned by Mr. LAM Yick-kuen just now, the usage rate of the public toilet was very high during large-scale activities and festivals. He expressed his disappointment about the change, and hoped that the FEHD would tweak the above works for the convenience of members of the public. In addition, he had checked the public toilet’s floor plan, and asked the FEHD whether the glass panel that was originally at the entrance would be removed after the works.

129. Mr. AU Chun-ho said that the public toilet had been known for its unique design. As such, he asked the FEHD whether the refurbishment works above would change how it looked. In addition, he said the paper stated that the above works were expected to commence in the third quarter of 2020, and to complete in the first quarter of 2021. He asked the FEHD whether the construction period above had accommodated with the large-scale activity mentioned by Mr. LAM Yick-kuen just now.

130. Mr. MA Hon-chiu responded as follows:

(i) He agreed with Mr. Richard CHAN’s suggestion of installing environmentally friendly facilities at the public toilet. (ii) He could forward to the FEHD HQs the suggestion of installing telecommunication signal transceivers at the public toilet.

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(iii) The afore-mentioned refurbishment works aimed at replacing old toilet facilities, while its outlook and surrounding environment would not be affected. As for the slope behind the public toilet, he believed that the departments concerned would carry out surveying work before the works. Should any issues be found, the departments concerned would deal with them first, before launching the afore- mentioned refurbishment works. (iv) The department knew that there were many visitors during the Chinese New Year, and the usage rate of the public toilet was also very high. As such, the department would strive to complete the works before the Chinese New Year. When large- scale activities were held there in the past, the department would also set up mobile toilets for the visitors. (v) As the refurbishment works included increasing the size of male and female duty rooms in the public toilet, the number of stalls in female toilet had to be reduced. However, the department would set up mobile toilets during the festivals to meet the demand. (vi) If the EFAC would like to keep the original glass panel at the entrance to the public toilet, he could forward their views to the HQs.

131. The Chairman said that the EFAC would like to keep the glass panel there. Therefore, they hoped that the FEHD could forward their views to the HQs. In addition, he also hoped that the above works could be completed as soon as possible.

132. Mr. AU Chun-wah said that the actual expenditure of many works nowadays were over the budget. While he understood that it was caused by works delays and increasing prices, he also hoped that the FEHD could strictly control the budget when carrying out the above works. In addition, he had referred to the design of public toilets in other areas, and indicated that some may have the washing basins installed at the atrium outside, so as to free up more space for toilet stalls. He said that as there was still room in the atrium of the public toilet, he would like to know if it could follow the design of other public toilets and fully utilise the space in it.

133. The Chairman asked the FEHD to consider Members’ views, and hoped that the afore- mentioned refurbishments works could be completed and commence service as soon as possible, for the convenience of the residents in the district.

VIII. Anti-mosquito Campaign 2020 (Phase II) in Tai Po District (TPDC Paper No. EFA 31/2020)

134. Mr. LAW Shau-mong outlined the above paper.

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135. Mr. YAM Kai-bong’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) Hong Kong started raining a lot once entering the rainy season. Many members of the public had complained about the serious mosquito problems, but the ovitrap index in the district remained at a low level. Therefore, he would like to know the reasons. He also asked whether the ovitrap index could really reflect the mosquito situation in the district, or whether the above situation arose because the ovitraps were not set up at the locations where the residents were concerned with. (ii) The department’s staff would set up ovitraps at roadside railings and in the parks. As such, he asked whether the department would consider setting up ovitraps in housing estates or private residential developments, so as to expand the index’s coverage and reflect the mosquito situation in the district more accurately.

136. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The department’s representatives reported in detail at every meeting about where anti-mosquito work would be carried out, and quickly dealt with the complaints referred to by Members. Nevertheless, the mosquito problems in the district were still very serious. Some residents living on the first floor of Classical Gardens had told him that every time they opened the windows, mosquitoes would fly into their home. He had informed the department about it on numerous occasions, and the department had also sent staff to carry out anti-mosquito work there, but there was still no improvement in the situation. To him, it was not that the number of anti-mosquito was not enough. Rather, it had to do with the its quality or the anti- mosquito materials. As such, he would like to know the department’s criteria in selecting the cleaning contractor at present, so as to find out if the situation could be improved. (ii) The land management work for the vacant government sites and sites managed by the TPDLO near the villages was poor. Not only were shrubs and water puddles everywhere, refuse was also blocking the drains, thus giving rise to mosquito problems. As the tress on these sites were not managed by the LCSD’s Tree Management Office, the mosquitoes and bugs that had grown on them were disturbing the residents nearby. For the long vacant government site next to Shek Kwu Lung Village, its hygiene condition was horrible. He and the department’s staff had visited the site, but the department’s staff told him that the only anti- mosquito work they could do was to spray larvicidal oil at the periphery of the government site. He asked whether the department could discuss with other

- 47 -

government departments to enter the vacant government site to carry out anti- mosquito work and clear the refuse.

137. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, thanked the FEHD for following up on the mosquito problems in the villages in a proactive manner. Although the department was carrying out the anti-mosquito work on a consistent basis, mosquito problems were still very serious. He had carried out consultation as regards a district minor works, and some residents suggested setting up mosquito lamps in the area. He opined that solar energy technology could be used in mosquito lamps, while mosquito lamps and other anti-mosquito devices could be set up at pavilions. It could not only relieve the manpower burden for anti-mosquito work, but was also a way to tackle the root of the problem. As the TPDO’s Work Section said that it had not set up any mosquito lamps before, the FEHD and TPDO could discuss the suggestion together.

138. Mr. AU Chun-ho said that the department’s anti-mosquito staff would put larvicidal oil in gully traps. However, he had seen mosquito larvae moving around in the water surface of a blocked drain. As such, he would like to know where larvicidal oil would affect mosquito larvae.

139. Ms. Olive CHAN expressed her gratitude to the FEHD’s Pest Control Section. She said that after inspecting the mosquito blackspots in her constituency with the department’s staff, the staff concerned had carried out anti-mosquito work quickly, and the mosquito problems had improved. She hoped that she could invite the department’s staff to inspect the blackspots again when the rainy season arrived, so as to find out where improvement was needed.

140. The Chairman said that problems involving mosquitoes and biting midges were rather serious this year. The FEHD staff’s efforts in various aspects and quick response to Members’ requests were praiseworthy. Larvicidal agents would harm human’s body. Using too much of them would affect members of the public, but using too little would not achieve the results of killing the mosquitoes. As such, the correct dosage had to be used, and he hoped that the department would keep up its work and offer assistance.

141. Mr. LAW Shau-mong responded as follows:

(i) There were a number of mosquito species in Hong Kong that would bite people, such as aedes, anopheles, culex, etc., while the ovitrap index was mainly for monitoring the distribution of aedes albopictus that could spread dengue fever and Zika virus. Therefore, since April 2020, the department had adopted a new index for monitoring aedes albopictus, i.e., “Gravidtrap Index for aedes albopictus” and “Density Index for aedes albopictus”, which checked the number of adult aedes albopictus on the glue board rather than the number of eggs collected. The

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department would review the index monitoring in a timely manner, so as to improve the current monitoring system on a continuous basis. (ii) To his knowledge, the department would set up gravidtraps in the public area of housing estates, such as the flower beds outside the lobby. (iii) According to the information provided by the staff of the department’s Outsourcing Section, as regards contracts for pest control work, staff’s welfare accounted for 40% of the total score, while other criteria covered work plans, relevant experience, work performance record, etc. (iv) Anti-mosquito work might not achieve the desired outcome due to various reasons, such as environmental factors, etc. While it was impossible to kill all the mosquitoes, our department’s staff would do their best when carrying out the anti- mosquito work. They would start with environmental control methods, and then proceed with chemical control methods, which included the use of pesticides. The most important of all was to clear stagnant water. If stagnant water could be cleared once a week, there would be substantial improvement in mosquito problems. When carrying out inspection, our department’s staff would not only spray pesticides, but also focus on clearing stagnant water, such as according priority to clear the stagnant water in flower beds or containers on the ground. When dealing with locations where stagnant waters could not be totally cleared, our department’s staff would have to spray pesticides for prevention purposes. (v) The government site enclosed by wire fence next to Shek Kwu Lung Village was managed by the TPDLO. Our department’s staff would not only enhance the anti- mosquito work at the public places in the periphery, but also inform the TPDLO or relevant departments to step up their anti-mosquito work in the areas they managed in a timely manner. Where necessary, the department would provide assistance for the persons-in-charge of various sites and continue to monitor the mosquito problems at the public places around the site. When designing the Anti-Mosquito Campaign, the FEHD would also inform the responsible officers of the departments concerned about the campaign’s arrangement and details. From the district perspective, the department would also have mosquito control meetings with the relevant departments each month and brief them on the latest information, and provide the departments with technical advice. (vi) The department would mainly install mosquito lamps at the FEHD’s sites (such as the inside of public toilets). To his understanding, the LCSD would also install mosquito lamps at its sites. As regards the suggestion of installing these devices at other public places, the TPDO might have to take follow-up action. (vii) The non-medicinal larvicidal oil worked mainly due to its physical properties. As it would stay on top of water, it would block the air above it. As a result, when

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mosquito larvae floated to water surface trying to breathe, they could not do so and would die from asphyxiation. As regards the situation mentioned by Mr. AU Chun-ho, it was probably because the accumulation of refuse or the washing away of larvicidal oil by water had taken away the oil’s air-blocking function. If stagnant water could not be cleared, staff of the Pest Control Section would apply larvicidal sand to kill the mosquito larvae. (viii) He thanked the support of the Pest Control Section, and the department’s staff would continue to work hard and provide assistance.

142. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung said that the TPDLO was always concerned with the management issues of government sites, including cutting the grass and carrying out anti-mosquito measures on a regular basis. If the refuse and stagnant water in an enclosed government site had given rise to mosquitoes and bugs, it would arrange for contractors to clear them as soon as possible. As regards the vacant government site in Shek Kwu Lung Tsuen mentioned by Mr. WU Yiu- cheong, the department would contact him after the meeting for follow-up action.

(Post-meeting note: The TPDLO had contacted Mr. WU Yiu-cheong after the meeting and follow up on the vacant government site he was concerned about.)

143. Mr. YIU Kwan-ho said that at the site managed by the TPDLO between Providence Bay Phase 3 and Mayfair By The Sea I, as well as the site managed by the TPDO next to Providence Bay Phase 3, there was a drain in the middle left behind by the CEDD after the completion of reclamation works. As the drains were neither managed by the DSD nor TPDLO, he asked which department should be responsible for dealing with the mosquito problems in the drains. In addition, he also asked the departments to note the mosquito problems at several vacant sites near Providence Bay.

144. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong hoped that the department would provide a detailed written response as regards the weighting of scores when selecting contractors, which should not be limited to the weighting of staff’s welfare. In addition, the government site next to Shek Kwu Lung Village he had just mentioned was an example only. He knew that different departments had different duties, and the FEHD’s contractors would only work at public places. Although the TPDLO was responsible for dealing with the mosquito, drainage and tree problems on government sites, it was somewhat difficult to put them into action. As such, he asked whether a certain department could be asked to take up a co-ordinating role, so as to manage the long vacant government sites in a better way.

145. The Chairman asked the FEHD to provide a written response on the scoring criteria when selecting contractors as requested by Members. In addition, the TPDLO also had the

- 50 - responsibility to clarify the rights and duties issues of sites not under any department’s management, so as to follow up on the mosquito problems at these sites.

146. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung said that the drains mentioned by Mr. YIU Kwan-ho were located on government sites. The TPDLO had visited the sites with the DSD not long ago, and established that the drains were neither related to its stormwater drainage system, nor under the DSD’s scope of management and repair. Being aware of Members’ concerns about the mosquito problems at these government sites, the TPDLO would enhance the grass cutting work, and would spray pesticides at the drains. In addition, the office would also deploy staff to apply mosquito sprays at the drains during the rainy season between April and October, so as to improve the mosquito problems there.

147. Ms. Patty LEE said that the TPDO and TPDLO had a meeting with Mr. YIU Kwan-ho for the afore-mentioned matters last week. The office pledged to visit the sites to prune the weeds on a regular basis, but the maintenance responsibilities for the drains on the sites had been confirmed. She also agreed to identify a corresponding department to be in charge of the matters concerned as that would be the long-term solution, and she would continue to follow up on it. Generally speaking, government sites that had been allocated to other departments for management had to be managed by the departments concerned, while the unallocated sites managed by the TPDLO would be enclosed by wire fence and managed by the TPDLO. The TPDO often received complaints about the growth of weeds and accumulation of refuse at unallocated sites, and was happy to help contact the responsible departments for follow-up action.

148. The Chairman asked the FEHD, before applying larvicidal oil, whether it would first check if the drains were blocked by refuse, or if it was going to rain soon, and opted to delay applying larvicidal oil, lest the larvicidal oil become useless or be washed away by rainwater.

149. Mr. LAW Shau-mong said that if the department’s staff, before applying larvicidal oil, noticed that the drains were blocked by refuse, they would first clear the refuse if feasible. In addition, if staff of the Pest Control Section expected that it was going to rain soon, they would apply larvicidal sand instead, lest the larvicidal oil be washed to the ground surface and make passers-by stumble. He said that, for instance, when carrying out joint operations at Lane Square in Tai Po, staff of the Cleansing Section would first clear the drains and clean the streets, before applying larvicidal oil and sand.

150. Mr. MAN Nim-chi asked whether the department could develop a larvicidal oil that had certain physical attributes and were medicinal at the same time, so that mosquito larvae floating to water surface for breathing would die from having contact with the chemicals.

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151. Mr. MA Hon-chiu said that using larvicidal sand and oil at the same time would have the same outcome.

IX. Installation of thermal imaging camera monitoring systems at rodent blackspots (TPDC Papers No. EFA 32/2020 and No. EFA 41/2020)

152. Mr. LAW Shau-mong outlined Paper No. EFA 32/2020.

153. Mr. Nick LAM asked the department to provide Members with specific data as regards the scheme’s effectiveness for reference. In addition, he suggested incorporating one of the items in agenda item XIV, namely “Request for government departments to consult the TPDC before installing closed-circuit televisions”, into this agenda item for discussion at the same time.

154. The Chairman asked Members whether they agreed with Mr. Nick LAM’s suggestion of incorporating one of the items in agenda item XIV, namely “Request for government departments to consult the TPDC before installing closed-circuit televisions”, into this agenda item for discussion at the same time.

155. Members agreed with the above suggestion.

156. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) To his understanding, the thermal imaging cameras mentioned in the above paper was mainly for thermal imaging. However, it could also capture real-time images and serve as a closed-circuit television (“CCTV”). According to the Guidance Note on Closed Circuit Television Surveillance Practices (“the Guidance Note”) by the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data (“PCPD”), when considering whether to install the CCTV, one should find out whether there were other options that could address the problem better than using the CCTV. The paper stated that thermal imaging cameras would only be used for quantifying and assessing the effectiveness of anti-rodent work, i.e., comparing the number of rodents before and after applying rodenticide. In addition, the cameras would also capture the entry points and routes of rodent activities, as well as where they would appear. However, the department had been deploying the Pest Control Teams and contractors to carry out the work. Why would the department think that thermal imaging cameras could finish the work that could not be dealt with by the staff concerned in the past? These factors would affect whether Members would agree to install thermal imaging cameras.

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(ii) In districts where thermal imaging cameras had been installed, the locals branded them as “advanced technology with limited effectiveness”. Rodent problems in the alleys involved a number of factors, which included the FEHD not carrying out its work properly in cracking down on illegal dumping of food waste and refuse, as well as monitoring the quality of anti-rodent work contractors, etc. If the department could enhance the work concerned, it would not be necessary to install thermal imaging cameras. (iii) The FEHD had another programme to install network cameras to crack down on illegal dumping of refuse. The department had pointed out on numerous occasions that the network cameras would not capture people’s face clearly. However, there was no objective benchmark as regards clarity. When responding to the questions posed by DC Members of other DCs, the department’s staff said that as long as certain conditions had been met, such as having enough illumination, being at the correct angle, maintaining a normal speed and distance, and having no obstacles in between, etc., people’s face could be captured. From June 2018 to November 2019, the department had provided network camera footages for the HKPF on 37 occasions, which included footages taken in Tai Po District. Paragraph 4 of the FEHD’s paper stated that “as the images captured by thermal imaging cameras were of low resolution and had no facial recognition function, no collection of personal data was involved”. He stressed that the key was not about whether the thermal imaging cameras had facial recognition function. It was about whether the department would provide footages for the HKPF as per its request, if the thermal imaging cameras were for monitoring the illegal dumping of refuse or rodent problems. (iv) He asked the department to provide model and resolution information of the thermal imaging cameras, as well as the information of the company which set up the thermal imaging camera monitoring system (“the system”) for the department. (v) The HKPF had asked the FEHD to provide the footages taken by its network cameras in Tai Po on 9 May 2019. He asked the HKPF what kind of case it was investigating at that time, and the location of the network camera concerned. (vi) At present, the entire Government had not only failed to resolve livelihood and rodent issues, but also lost the legitimacy and credibility in its governance in the eyes of the public. If the department could not answer the above questions and allay people’s worries, he would not agree to install the cameras concerned until the HKPF was disbanded.

157. Mr. YIU Yeuk-sang asked the department to provide the effectiveness and report of the scheme, as well as the footages captured by thermal imaging cameras in Tai Po Market.

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158. Mr. Nick LAM outlined Paper No. EFA 41/2020.

159 Mr. WONG Siu-kin’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The FEHD’s paper stated that it would install thermal imaging cameras at certain rodent blackspots in the district for monitoring, and that the FEHD had also consulted the Department of Justice (“DoJ”), which opined that the scheme was not in breach of any legislation. As an elected Member, he said that in-depth discussion and deliberation had to be carried out before deciding whether to install the cameras. Whether such a move was legitimate was just one of the criteria. Only when there was no conflict between dealing with rodents and protecting the privacy of residents in the district could the cameras be installed. He was basically strongly against the FEHD installing the cameras concerned at the rodent blackspots in the district. Under the current system, even if the image captured was so fuzzy that it could only show the colour of clothing, the length of trousers and the style of backpack, etc., it might still be adduced as prosecution evidence in the future. Even if people’s face could not be captured clearly, many members of the public would still be remanded and prosecuted by the DoJ due to these images. As such, it was not necessary at this stage to discuss whether the cameras concerned could capture people’s face. The crux of the problem was, the device concerned was a means to carry out surveillance on the people. Therefore, he was against its installation. If anyone wanted to defend for the department by claiming that the cameras could not capture people’s face, he should be ashamed of himself given what had happened during the social movement in the past half a year or so. (ii) As regards the thermal imaging cameras installed by the department in Tai Po, such as On Fu Road, Kwong Fuk Road, Po Heung Street, etc., had they been taken down, or a decision would be made upon consulting the DC? (iii) Did the department have any other ways to monitor the progress and effectiveness of its anti-rodent work?

160. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, agreed with Members’ views above, and said that people’s privacy had to be protected. With so much dispute going on in society, the DCs of the districts concerned should definitely be consulted to study whether to install thermal imaging cameras. The cameras were made by Hikvision, a company which had a bad reputation, garnered a lot of attention due to its surveillance system on the Mainland, and had been suspected of suppressing human rights. He had doubts about the scheme’s effectiveness in capturing rodents, and therefore would not agree to it. Using thermal imaging cameras on a long-term basis would give rise to suspicion that they were used for monitoring the people. He suggested that the department should consider installing temporary cameras, and remove them after getting

- 54 - familiar with the rodents’ habits. In addition, the department should also see if there were any other methods that would replace the use of the system.

161. Mr. LAW Shau-mong responded as follows:

(i) The systems’ procurement and operation were arranged and followed up by the staff of the designated section under the FEHD HQs. He received the initial report from the staff of that section last Friday, and did not have the full report at this stage. (ii) The FEHD started a one-week test of the system in Tai Po District on 16 April. The hours monitored were from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. the following day, and the system was removed on 23 April. After testing, the department had collected data for seven days. He showed Members several images captured by the cameras, and marked the signs of rodents in different colours. These could help understand where rodenticide should be applied, as well as where other cleaning and anti- rodent work should be carried out. In addition, the system would also provide the number of rodents at the locations concerned at different hours, but not any other images. The department would refer to the images captured by the thermal imaging cameras and deploy staff to where rodents appeared to enhance its anti- rodent work in a targeted manner. The FEHD hoped that the system could be re- installed in late June when all the anti-rodent work had been completed, so as to carry out monitoring and data analysis for quantifying and evaluating the action’s effectiveness. (iii) All the data recorded by the system’s memory cards were thermal images, and no clear image would be recorded. In addition, the FEHD had sought legal advice as regards the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance (“PDPO”), to ensure that the relevant legislation had been complied with. (iv) In the past, the FEHD’s staff and contractors used to identify rodent problems through circumstantial evidence (such as rodents’ excrement, rub marks, bite marks, etc.) at the scene. At present, the department would like to use the advanced artificial intelligence analysis technology to track down the signs and hideouts of rodents, so as to enhance the effectiveness of its anti-rodent work. In addition, the department had enhanced the law enforcement efforts in back alleys and prosecuted people who ran afoul of hygiene-related ordinance. In the past few months, a number of operations were carried out on Wai Yi Street, and the rodent problems there had thus improved. (v) The information showed that the system’s resolution was 160 x 120.

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(vi) As regards providing network camera footages for law enforcement agencies, to his understanding, during that time period, there were a total of five cases in which Tai Po District was asked by the HKPF to provide footages. (vii) He would later provide Members with the district report of the system for reference. (viii) He had noted the views and concerns about privacy of Mr. TAM Yi-pui and Mr. WONG Siu-kin, and would forward to the HQs DC Members’ views on dealing with rodent problems with the system, and their enquiries about alternative methods.

162. Mr. LAU Ka-yip responded as follows:

(i) The HKPF would, for the purpose of preventing and detecting crimes, exercise the search and seizure powers conferred by relevant legislations and, in accordance with established procedures and guidelines, seize and examine objects, which included CCTV footages, related to the suspected offence. (ii) According to the information at hand, when the HKPF asked the FEHD for the footages on 9 May 2020, it was for a traffic accident case. However, it would not be appropriate to reveal the details here.

163. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He asked the FEHD to explain in specific terms whether the data captured by the camera would be stored in its hard disk, memory card or removable devices such as external hard disks, or whether it would be sent wirelessly to somewhere else for storage. (ii) He asked whether the raw data of camera footages would be processed before being submitted to the FEHD. If yes, who was responsible for it? If the data had been processed, the image shown to Members by the department just now might not be the raw image of cameras. (iii) He applauded the FEHD’s efforts to resolve livelihood issues. However, it had unfortunately been dragged down by other departments. When installing the cameras, the department should not only take into account legal considerations, but also how members of the public felt.

164. Mr. Nick LAM said that the department had been carrying out trial runs for the system in other districts (such as Kowloon City District) for a while. As such, he hoped that the department could provide the data concerned and the system’s effectiveness. In addition, the department

- 56 - had provided a total of 38 footages for the HKPF and Customs and Excise Department. He would like to know what kinds of crime involved in these footages.

165. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s questions were as follows:

(i) If anything was related to the HKPF’s investigation, the HKPF would be able to obtain any camera footages from the FEHD without violating the law. The HKPF would use all the powers conferred by the law to carry out any action. He asked the FEHD, regardless of the main purposes of installing the cameras, if the HKPF asked for camera footages on the reason of investigation, whether it would oblige and hand them over to the HKPF. (ii) The department said that the cameras would not capture actual images. He asked how the department could find out and monitor whether it was in fact the case, and where the images captured by the cameras would be stored. (iii) He asked about the information of the company that set up the system for the department, and the cameras’ specifications. The department said that the cameras’ resolution was 160 x 120. He asked whether it was the highest resolution of the cameras, or the resolution of the images it had received eventually.

166. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai’s questions were as follows:

(i) To his understanding, the department had been running the system in Kowloon City District on a trial basis for a while. He asked about its effectiveness, such as whether the number of rodents caught had increased after the department had an idea about where they appeared. He hoped that the department could provide specific figures and data. (ii) If the HKPF asked the FEHD for footages, would the department provide all of them? Although the department said that the cameras would not capture and record actual images, the HKPF would normally not ask for thermal images for investigation. As such, he believed that the cameras could provide footages other than thermal images. (iii) According to the pictures taken by Members during site inspection, the cameras could capture actual images. He asked when the cameras would capture actual images, or whether they would record actual and thermal images at the same time. He was concerned about what images the cameras could capture, and when these images would be used.

167. Mr. HO Wai-lam said that the main purpose for the cameras capturing images was to eliminate the rodents. Therefore, regular images would be useless for anti-rodent work. In

- 57 - addition, as members of the public had no idea when the cameras would capture actual or thermal images, while the HKPF could obtain the cameras’ images in a legitimate manner, he opined that given the current social climate, installing the system was against public opinion.

168. Mr. MA Hon-chiu said that with the advance of technology, the department’s HQs opined that the system could be installed in all districts and back alleys, so as to test how technology would fare in monitoring the rodent problems. Tai Po District was one of the nine districts in Hong Kong that would install the system on a trial basis. He noted Members’ concerns about the system possibly invading people’s privacy, and would forward their views to the HQs.

169. Mr. LAW Shau-mong responded as follows:

(i) There was a memory card in the system. The thermal images captured would be immediately stored in the memory card, which would be retrieved by the contract when removing the cameras. (ii) The contractor was responsible for dealing with the data concerned, and would submit to the department reports which contained one daily image from each system showing signs of rodents, and set out data such as the number of rodents detected. (iii) He would reflect to the department’s HQs people’s concerns about the system possibly invading their privacy. (iv) He would ask the department’s HQs whether he could provide relevant information on matters that Members were concerned with, such as the trial report of Kowloon City District, information of the contracting company, camera models, etc.

170. Mr. HO Wai-lam indicated that the department called the thermal imaging cameras “new technology”. However, its application was restricted to capturing footages and counting the number of rodents, instead of eliminating the rodents directly. It meant that no matter how many rodents were captured by the cameras, they would only be eliminated in the same old way (such as applying rodenticide). As such, he opined that it would be less expensive to hire anti-rodent experts than to install the devices concerned.

171. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) Just now, the department’s representative said that it was new technology. However, he was clearly clueless about technology. The department said that the images captured would be stored in a memory card, and the contractor would deal with the relevant data. Also, as the department would only receive a one-page report after the contractor had sorted out the data, it could not answer Members’

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questions as to how it monitored the system, and when the cameras would take actual images. He found it irresponsible, as he believed that the agreement signed by the department should have set out the terms concerned. In addition, the department could not inform Members of the contractor’s information, and had to reply in writing after the meeting. It meant that the department did not want to tell Members about it, and the department’s representative was so clueless about new technology that he had no idea that the footages could be sent to a server immediately. The way he acted made him highly uncomfortable about installing the system in Tai Po District. (ii) The department said that it would consider the law enforcement agencies’ footage request according to the PDPO. However, according to Section 58(1)(a) of the PDPO, the department could provide the HKPF with footages for “the prevention or detection of crime”. In other words, the HKPF could use the excuse of crime investigation and asked for footages from the FEHD. Regardless of whether the cameras were for, the FEHD always had to provide the footages. For the reasons above, he would not support implementing the scheme in Tai Po District.

172. Mr. YIU Kwan-ho said that the underlying principle of the PDPO was that it was mandatory to inform the data subject why and how the relevant information would be collected. Installing thermal imaging cameras was for identifying rodent blackspots. If their footages were sent to the HKPF for the detection of crime, it had deviated from the original purposes of collecting the data. As the data subject had no idea that the data had been handed over to the HKPF, the department should have a duty to inform him. The department had referred five cases that took place in Tai Po District to the HKPF, but had not made it public. It was clearly against the principle above. Even if the law enforcement efforts had immunity, the department should also make the information public. As privacy was a very sensitive issue, he hoped that the FEHD would deal with people’s privacy in a serious manner.

173. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai said that the FEHD had reported the matters concerned to LegCo in 2019, and said that as the new rodent trapping devices driven by pressurised gas was ineffective, traditional tools (such as rodent cages) would still have to be used. He asked the department, if the system could track down the signs of rodents, whether it would increase the number of rodent cages accordingly. Some experts wondered that the main objective of the department’s anti- rodent work was to monitor the rodent problems, instead of eliminating the rodents. In addition, the department did not mention how to use the new and effective ways of eliminating the rodents, making people wonder a lot of resources had been used to carry out surveillance on the people under the guise of monitoring the rodent problems. He wondered, at this day and age when even mobile phones could upload pictures onto the cloud immediately, why the department could not tell the whereabouts of the cameras’ data. As such, it was really difficult for members of the public to be comfortable with the system.

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174. Mr. Richard CHAN said the department stated that it had sought legal advice for the scheme from the DoJ. He asked the department to provide the legal advice document.

175. Ms. Olive CHAN said that as far as the scheme was concerned, resources had been mismatched and priorities misplaced. The department’s objective was to eliminate the rodents. However, rodents were animals and might not show up in the same paths every day. As such, she opined that rodenticide was less expensive but more effective than the system. When the department applied rodenticide, if it noticed that the rodenticide at certain locations had no signs of being taken by rodents, it should apply it at other locations. It should also spend resources on developing rodenticides that could eliminate rodents effectively, so as to tackle the existing problem where rodents could dilute or neutralise the poison with water.

176. Mr. LAW Shau-mong responded as follows:

(i) Apart from the system, the department at present would also rely on circumstantial evidence (such as rodents’ excrement, rub marks, bite marks, etc.) at the scene and the experience of department’s staff to detect rodent problems. (ii) He had noted and would forward to the department members of the public’s worries about the network cameras and thermal imaging cameras invading their privacy, as well as the views of Members and members of the public about whether resources had been used properly. (iii) At present, the department took environmental control actions (i.e., clearing the food residues at the scene, as well as the various items used by rodents as hideouts), applied rodenticide and set up rodent cages as the follow-up action after testing. For the time being, the department had no plans to use rodent trapping devices driven by pressurised gas on a trial basis. (iv) He would later ask the HQs whether it could provide the legal advice document.

177. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong said that the department had yet to respond to his question about the contractor’s name. In addition, he asked whether the department would promise that it would not roll out Stage II of the scheme before consulting the TPDC and securing its consent.

178. Mr. LAW Shau-mong said that he could not provide the proper full name of the contractor and the company’s information for the time being.

179. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong said that as the contractor had submitted a report earlier on, and the department had also revealed its content, he wondered why Members could not be informed of the contractor’s name.

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180. Mr. LAW Shau-mong responded as follows:

(i) Once he had obtained the detailed information of the contractor, he would provide it for Mr. WU Yiu-cheong. (ii) If the department considered installing the system at other locations in the future, it would consult the EFAC again.

181. The Chairman said that it was very reasonable for Mr. WU Yiu-cheong to ask the department to provide the contractor’s name. Therefore, he hoped that the department could provide the information as soon as possible after the meeting.

182. Mr. Dalu LIN wondered why the department had sought legal advice but could not provide basic information such as the contractor’s name. In addition, he also asked the department to provide information such as the model, procurement details, functions, etc., of the thermal imaging cameras.

183. Mr. Richard CHAN said that Mr. Nick LAM put forward his requests to various government departments in the paper, while representatives from the EPD, AFCD, HyD, etc., were also at the meeting. As these departments might have installed different cameras, he would like the Chairman to deal with the request.

184. The Chairman said that the agenda item proposed by Mr. Nick LAM was supposed to be dealt with in “Any other business”. However, as it was related to this agenda item, it was being dealt with together. He opined that as it was not meaningful to pose questions in the absence of other departmental representatives, he asked Mr. Nick LAM whether he agreed to incorporate this item into “Matters arising”. He reminded Mr. Nick LAM that if he was going to bring up this agenda item at the next meeting, he should invite suitable departments to respond according to the content of the agenda item.

185. Mr. Nick LAM agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

X. Reports by the departments concerned regarding the street management and environmental hygiene issues in Tai Po District (TPDC Paper No. EFA 33/2020 (Revised))

186. Ms. WONG Sin-man, Mabel outlined the above paper.

187. Mr. MA Hon-chiu outlined the above paper.

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188. In addition to the regular reports by the FEHD, the Chairman also asked the departments concerned to report.

189. Reports of the departments concerned were summarised as follows:

(i) The operation details of the HKPF had been set out in the above paper. In the past two months, the HKPF had stepped up its law enforcement efforts at the above location, as well as the locations mentioned by Members at the previous meeting. (ii) During the two inter-departmental joint operations in March and April 2020, the TPDLO did not find any shops at Lane Square in Tai Po that had set up immovable decking at public places. (iii) The HyD participated in the afore-mentioned inter-departmental joint operations, during which it did not find any problems that had to be resolved. (iv) During the afore-mentioned inter-departmental joint operations, the BD did not find any retractable canopies that required immediate action. (v) The EPD participated in the afore-mentioned inter-departmental joint operations to deal with the hawking noise from the shops at Lane Square in Tai Po. During the afore-mentioned inter-departmental joint operations, the department did not find any violation.

190. Mr. Nick LAM said many residents complained about the noise coming from a number of shops near Lane Square in Tai Po and Wai Yi Street. While the hawking noise might not have reached the law-breaking level, it had already affected the residents. As they were not sure whether the matters concerned should be dealt with by the HKPF or EPD, he hoped that the EPD could explain whether it was not against the law if noise had not reached a certain level.

191. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He commended that departments for providing more detailed information in this work report, so that Members could find out how the departments cleared the shopfront extensions at Lane Square in Tai Po and Chui Wo Lane. They also wanted to know if the situation had improved after the inter-departmental joint operations. As regards the number of fixed penalty notices, the number of prosecutions against illegal shopfront extension at some locations was zero. He asked whether it was because the department did not initiate prosecution as the shop had cleared the items immediately. In addition, a considerable amount of refuse would be cleared in the operations. For instance, 150 kilogrammes of

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refuse were cleared in the operation on 19 April. However, no fixed penalty notice was issued. Therefore, he would like to know why. (ii) Last Saturday, a crowd gathered near Tai Po Mega Mall for demonstration and singing. While the crowd was demonstrating and singing, over a hundred riot police entered Zone C of Tai Po Mega Mall. He saw at the scene that while the crowd was singing at the atrium, all the shops were in business as usual. However, once the riot police had entered the mall, all the shops in Zone C closed their business. In addition, riot police even chased away everyone walking in Zone C and put up an orange cordon line. However, some members of the public were still having their meals inside the cordon line. He asked whether someone or the mall’s management office had called the police, so that the HKPF had to enter the mall for law enforcement action. As there might be similar activities this evening, he hoped that the HKPF could explain the law enforcement criteria.

192. Mr. LAU Ka-yip said that the HKPF had a statutory duty to maintain public safety and order. As regards the incident mentioned by Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai, the HKPF arrived at the scene after being informed about it, and only entered the mall for law enforcement action when necessary. However, he was not in a position to reveal the operation details at the meeting.

193. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The FEHD’s efforts were noticeable. According to its work report, it had prosecuted six people for offences (fixed penalty – prohibition on display of bills or posters without permission). He asked how many of them were not DC Members. In addition, he noticed that the publicity items and posters of former DC Members had been tied to many lamp posts in the district. He asked the department how it would take law enforcement action against it. He also asked whether the department could provide a telephone hotline for DC Members to inform the department’s staff to deal with such problems. (ii) He commended the HKPF for setting out the number of law enforcement actions taken on On Fu Road and Wai Yi Street in this work report. As many vehicles were often illegally parked at the back of the taxi stand on On Fu Road, buses could not make a turn there. In addition, as some vehicles were often parked at the hatched markings at Tai Wo bus stop in the morning, residents’ coaches heading for Mont Vert could not get near the stop, and thus affecting the traffic there. Therefore, he asked the HKPF to pay attention to it. (iii) A couple of days ago, he wanted to go to the Police station from Tai Po Plaza. However, the mall had been closed down by the HKPF and he could not get in. As such, he would like to know why it had to be closed down and cleared. In

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addition, not only the police officers’ behaviour showed that they were not under the control of the Commander, their conversation also showed that they were not under the control of Tai Po District Commander. He asked who was in charge of the riot police in Tai Po District last week, and whether the Assistant District Commander of Tai Po had lost his command in policing issues in Tai Po District.

194. Mr. AU Chun-wah’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The figures in this FEHD work report was more normal. The number of prosecutions against illegal shopfront extension in Lane Square in Tai Po in April was 33, which was just one per day on average. As such, he hoped that the department would keep up with its efforts. The previous Superintendent had had enough education for the shops regarding the issues concerned, and the breaches committed by the shops in Lane Square in Tai Po, Fu Shin Street, On Fu Road, Jade Plaza and Greenery Plaza had to be resolved by the FEHD’s strict law enforcement action, and it should inform the shops that there would not be any prior warning before prosecution. The department had cracked down hard on the breaches by the shops in Jade Plaza and, as a result, the shops there were highly disciplined in the year afterwards and did not have any breaches. However, the department had gradually relaxed its law enforcement efforts, and the breaches popped up again. As it would take a considerable amount of time and somewhat difficult to take strict law enforcement action again, he hoped that the department would continue to work hard on it. (ii) The pictures taken by the department at Lane Square in Tai Po on 7 April showed that there was a row of red floor bricks outside the shops there. According to the unwritten rules, the shops could put their goods beyond the red bricks. He found it acceptable that the shops put an appropriate amount of goods outside. Judging from what was happening, however, some of the fruit stalls had put the goods closer and closer to the middle of pedestrian walkway and had led to serious obstruction. Apart from putting their goods outside, the shops would also put goods and carton boxes on the drains in the middle of pedestrian walkway. Had the pedestrian walkway at Lane Square in Tai Po not been wide enough, pedestrians would have no way to go through. In addition, the alleys next to the shops were already very narrow, but the goods had also occupied half of them. He had been talking about the issues for three years. While the department had recently enhanced its law enforcement efforts and increased the number of operations, it was still not enough to resolve them. On the other hand, Bonnie Vegetables and Fruit Wholesale shop at Lane Square in Tai Po often stacked its goods on pedestrian ways, carriages, fire services gate and corners, and had led to serious obstruction. He opined that the situation persisted because the department had not taken prosecution action in a

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proactive manner. The FEHD was definitely responsible for dealing with the obstruction by roadside shops. The HKPF, as the law enforcement agency, should also work with other departments in inter-departmental joint operations to deal with the obstruction problems together, so as to resolve it successfully. (iii) The hygiene situation at the back entrance to ParknShop at Lane Square in Tai Po, as well as the vegetable stalls nearby, had never improved. While the shops had put large refuse bins next to the drains, vegetable stall workers would still dump ice cubes, vegetable leaves, plastic bags and waste paper into the drains. He asked whether the DSD and EPD could play different roles to help resolve the problem. (iv) Running a vegetable stall and fruit stall did not require any special licence. As such, it was difficult for the department to monitor the situation by way of licensing. As such, he asked whether it could follow the arrangements of eatery licensing so as to deal with the problem. For instance, he said that an eatery at Greenery Plaza used to put tables and chairs on the streets, and the situation had never improved despite numerous prosecutions and fines. Therefore, the department eventually handed the case over to the Court which prosecuted the shop and property owner concerned. As a result, the owner no longer rented the property to the shop, while the registered licensee and stakeholders concerned were not allowed to be the licensee of other eateries. If the department could deal with illegal shopfront extension this way, he believed that the situation would improve somewhat. He hoped that under the command of the new Superintendent, the FEHD would continue to enhance its efforts to deal with the problems concerned. (v) For the two illegal shopfront extension blackspots in Jade Plaza, when the department’s staff were not there, the shops would put their goods everywhere. Although the area occupied by cartons and refuse had decreased and become less obvious, it was still very dirty. Meanwhile, shops would also put good on the plants in the flower beds. After the plants had been crushed to death, they would occupy the flower beds and put other items there. Therefore, he hoped that the department would enhance its efforts to resolve the problem.

195. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong said that the HKPF’s work report had forgot to talk about how it implemented the group gathering ban. When the Government first rolled out the Prevention and Control of Disease (Prohibition on Group Gathering) Regulation (Cap. 599G) (also known as “Group gathering ban”), the Secretary for Food and Health said that the regulation was not meant to be implemented. Rather, it was a reminder for members of the public to stay vigilant against the epidemic, and not to gather. However, since the group gathering ban had come into effect, the HKPF had suddenly changed its attitude when dealing with matters relating to hygiene and street management. For instance, the HKPF visited a famous restaurant in Tai Po almost every day to check whether the distance between tables and number of patrons complied with the

- 65 - requirements. As mentioned by Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai before, some police officers entered Tai Po Mega Mall and put up an orange cordon line by claiming that they had to implement the group gathering ban. He presented some pictures to those at the meeting that showed the gear of the police officers at that time. These riot police were in green uniform and equipped with helmets, shields, pepper sprays and batons, and entered the shopping mall in full gear claiming that they had to implement the group gathering ban. He pointed out that no one could believe that the HKPF had to deploy more than 100 police officers, who were all equipped with anti-riot launchers, gas masks, pepper sprays, etc., to implement a legislation that was meant to prohibit gatherings of more than eight people. He asked why the HKPF still had to enter the shopping mall despite having so much manpower on that day and having heavily surrounded Tai Po Mega Mall and its periphery, such as the footbridge at Sun Hing Garden, etc., as well as who made the decision. In addition, under what guidelines did the HKPF decide what gear the police officers had to be equipped with (which included anti-riot launchers, pepper sprays, shields, helmets, etc.) when implementing the group gathering ban?

196. Mr. YIU Kwan-ho’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He asked the departments to note the serious mosquito problems at the bus stop in MayFair By The Sea. In addition, some residents would order vegetables online and picked them up at the shop on Fo Chun Road near Mayfair By The Sea. However, they would often leave behind foam rubber boxes there. As it was close to the cycle track, the items on the road were dangerous to the cyclists. (ii) According to what report and to implement which legislation did the HKPF take action last Saturday? Was it like what Mr. WU Yiu-cheong just said, that it wanted to implement the group gathering ban? Who made the complaint, and did the HKPF carry out any investigation? If no, why did it send riot police to enter the shopping mall? In addition, it was perfectly normal for members of the public to queue up and walk around in a shopping mall. On what grounds did the HKPF close down the shopping mall? Was it because the shopping mall called the police, or because the HKPF was not happy to see someone having an activity in the shopping mall? (iii) When intercepting and searching members of the public, the HKPF had to objectively determine the possibility of committing a crime. Based on what he saw on that day, however, the HKPF intercepted and searched young people wearing a black mask or black clothing for no reason whatsoever. Therefore, he wondered whether the HKPF took law enforcement action on a selective basis. (iv) The HKPF had said that in light of the requirements of the group gathering ban, it had to disperse a crowd with the same intention. A couple of days ago, however, Mr. LEE Tsz-king, Dominic, former Member of Sham Shui Po DC, had an activity

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with over 40 people in Sheung Shui, but the HKPF did not take any law enforcement action. Did it mean that the HKPF would not take any law enforcement action against its supporters, and would only take stringent law enforcement actions against those who criticised it?

197. Mr. AU Chung-ho’s comments were as follows:

(i) He was pleased to know that the FEHD had increased the number of law enforcement actions at Lane Square in Tai Po and Jade Plaza. However, it was still not enough. He opined that the department needed not tolerate the offending shops, but should crack down hard on them. When the department’s staff was there to take law enforcement action, street obstruction had indeed improved. However, when they were not there, old habits would return. For instance, over 100 foam boxes would be left on the entire road near Jade Plaza. In addition, he checked on the situation in the vicinity just now, and saw a lot of foam boxes, cardboards and goods left at the fire services gate, pedestrian crossings and corners nearby at Lane Square in Tai Po. As such, he hoped that the department would crack down hard on it. (ii) Annex to the department’s work report only had pictures taken after follow-up actions. He suggested providing pictures taken beforehand for comparison, so that Members could have a better idea about the situation. (iii) Mosquito problems had become very serious since April, and he would like the department to take note of it.

198. Mr. HO Wai-lam said that he was very angry with the HKPF’s response, and asked whether police officers could do whatever they wanted to nowadays. In a peaceful situation on that day, the HKPF deployed a lot of riot police to the scene, and had frightened and got in the way of a lot of members of the public for no reason whatsoever, and no commander was at the scene for communication and co-ordination purposes either. As one people or a group of two would still be charged by the HKPF under the group gathering ban, he asked the HKPF about its criteria in implementing the group gathering ban. If the HKPF continued to respond to members of the public in such a perfunctory manner, it would forever be regarded by members of the public as a department who helped the evildoer in his evil deeds, and it would be hard for such a “violent” department to build any relationship with members of the public.

199. Mr. MA Hon-chiu responded as follows:

(i) None of the six violations regarding display of bills or posters without permission involved DC Members. If Members would like to report on display of bills or

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posters without permission in the district, they could contact him or the 1823 hotline at any time for follow-up action. (ii) He thanked Members for appreciating that the FEHD had increased the number of law enforcement actions at Lane Square in Tai Po and Jade Plaza, and that some of the shops kept violating the law despite numerous reminders. As such, the department would continue to take follow-up action and enhance its law enforcement efforts.

200. Mr. LAU Ka-yip responded as follows:

(i) He had noted the traffic condition at Tai Wo bus stop and On Fu Road, and law enforcement actions would be taken in a proactive manner. (ii) The HKPF would continue to carry out joint operations with the FEHD and other government departments to crack down on problems such as illegal shopfront extension and illegal parking, etc. (iii) He reiterated that he had fulfilled his duty by responding to Members’ questions in in a proactive manner, instead of a perfunctory manner. (iv) The HKPF had a statutory duty to maintain public safety and order. If there was an illegal gathering, the HKPF would carry out suitable risk assessment and take into account situations that might threaten public safety and order, so as to carry out action in a timely and suitable manner for the sake of public safety and order. Regarding Members’ questions about the operation’s commander and manpower deployment, as operation details were involved, it would not be appropriate to reveal them at the meeting.

201. The Chairman asked Members to focus their discussion on the street management and environmental hygiene issues in Tai Po District.

202. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai said that these issues were related to the safety of Hong Kong people. He talked about street management because he was worried that it would affect the safety of pedestrians and drivers. He talked about the incident last Saturday because the same might happen this evening. He did not ask the HKPF to provide the content and details of its operations. Rather, he would like to know the criteria behind the HKPF’s actions. He wondered whether it was necessary to deploy so much manpower to deal with an illegal gathering, during which police officers armed with rifles entered the shopping mall and drove members of the public away. Also, a lot of riot police was stationed at the footbridge at Tai Po Plaza, not allowing members of the public to enter for a singing activity. He saw that some of the arrested did not take part in the actions concerned. They just walked past and said something the police officers did not like to hear, and the police officers took action on them. On the other hand, 30 to 40 police supporters

- 68 - would gather in other districts, but the HKPF did not take any law enforcement action. There was a saying that “Submit to me and you will prosper; resist and you will perish”. Was that the HKPF’s law enforcement criteria? He did not expect the HKPF to give a response. He only hoped that the HKPF still had conscience and could tell what was right and what was wrong.

203. Mr. Nick LAM’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) Hawkers were often blocking the streets at Lane Square in Tai Po, Wai Yi Street, Fu Shin Street and Luk Heung Lane. He was worried that the department did not have enough manpower to deal with the problem in a comprehensive manner. As such, he asked the FEHD whether there was room to increase the manpower of its Hawkers Sections. (ii) To his understanding, some of the shops were well aware of the law enforcement action timetable of the department’s staff. They would go by the law only when the department’s staff showed up, and continued violating the law the rest of the time. He suggested giving more variations to the duty time of the department’s staff, so as to achieve the same effects as blitz actions.

204. Mr. Richard CHAN said that to a great extent, policing had given the Police’s authority to the community, while street management was the Police’s authority divided among communities. He asked whether the policing authority and command of Tai Po District still belonged to Tai Po Police Station. If not, did it mean that the community policing policy had changed? Near Zone C of Tai Po Mega Mall that evening, the HKPF’s behaviour had clearly shown that it had lost its command to direct the policing authority of Tai Po. In a peaceful Tai Po District, members of the public were only singing, shopping and having meals, and deploying more than 100 riot police was clearly unnecessary. Therefore, he hoped that Mr. LAU Ka-yip could exercise his authority to stop police officers not belonging to Tai Po District from doing whatever they wanted to. When he was at the report room of the Police station that day, he saw someone arrested for asking a police officer “whether there was ice”. Having gone through the troubles, he was eventually released on a $100 bail. He cited the story involving the sun and northern wind, and pointed out that the HKPF had so many ways to implement the group gathering ban, and it was not necessary to deploy more than 100 heavily geared riot police to deal with the peaceful and rational members of the public. There was also a broken window theory in policing, and that theory was spreading among the HKPF and making it rot. Frontline police officers belonging to other districts were allowed to do whatever they wanted to in Tai Po District without any consequences, and had thus rendered the governance ineffective. The other government department representatives were working hard to fulfil their duties, but had been dragged down by the out-of-control police officers.

205. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong asked whether the HKPF’s law enforcement standard for the group gathering ban had set out any criteria for its gear. Last Saturday, the HKPF took complete control

- 69 - of all the major access outside Tai Po Mega Mall, but most of the people inside the mall were having meals and walking around without any gear. If police officers entering the shopping mall was to implement the group gathering ban, why did they have to be armed with anti-riot launchers and gas masks, wield their batons, and point their pepper sprays at members of the public and reporters? What kind of action were all the above prepared for? As no one was arrested for illegal gathering at that time, he wondered if there was a mistake in the action, or whether a disproportionate amount of gear had been used to implement the group gathering ban. All the people in the shopping mall were in regular clothing, unarmed and gearless. However, the HKPF was heavily armed to implement the group gathering ban, and it had not answered the questions concerned. In addition, he also asked who was responsible for the action that day. Such information was not about the details of the operation. Instead, the DC would like to hold the person accountable for his incorrect decision. If the HKPF suspected that someone was involved in an illegal gathering, but did not arrest anyone in the end, it meant that it had made a wrong judgement call. Conversely, if the HKPF had used excessive force or gear to implement the group gathering ban, it also meant that it had made a wrong judgement call. Therefore, Members would like to know who made the decisions for the action that day, and to hold him accountable. If the HKPF continued to, in an irresponsible manner, regard everything as operation details and refuse to reveal them, it meant that it was not subject to the monitoring by members of the public and the DC. The issues above were related to this agenda item as it was about how the HKPF was going to implement the group gathering ban in the future. As such, it was indeed necessary to explain clearly the criteria for implementing the group gathering ban and the gear guidelines. Otherwise, it would be difficult to determine the objectives of the HKPF’s actions and hold anyone accountable. The HKPF claimed that there was an illegal gathering on that day. However, it had made arrests under the group gathering ban instead.

206. The Chairman said that he had just suggested Members focus the discussion on the street management and environmental hygiene issues in Tai Po District. He agreed that the HKPF needed to respond to the standards in implementing the group gathering ban in light of what had happened at Tai Po Mega Mall recently. However, for the policing issues that covered a wider area as mentioned by Members earlier, it was not suitable to discuss them at this EFAC meeting. It would be more appropriate for Members to submit an agenda item as regards these issues to the TPDC meeting for discussion.

207. Mr. HO Wai-lam said he disagreed with the Chairman, and opined that the issues concerned were directly related to the agenda item since many members of the public complained about the department for preventing them from entering the shopping mall for meals and shopping. In addition, the HKPF had to explain the criteria for the group gathering ban. Otherwise, residents dared not go out this evening.

208. Mr. YIU Kwan-ho’s comments and questions were as follows:

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(i) Last Saturday was the day before Mother’s Day. However, the HKPF said that there was an illegal gathering in the shopping mall. Did it mean that shopping, queuing, walking around and having meals at the shopping mall were all illegal gathering activities? The shops closed down not because of the demonstration, but because police officers had entered the shopping mall. He asked why the HKPF closed down the shopping mall for no reason whatsoever and disrupted the residents’ commuting patterns all along. He also asked about the HKPF’s criteria in implementing the group gathering ban, as well as in intercepting and searching people. (ii) He cited the book “On Tyranny”, which said that “the most intelligent of the Nazis, the legal theorist Carl Schmitt, explained in clear language the essence of fascist governance. The way to destroy all rules, he explained, was to focus on the idea of the exception. A Nazi leader outmaneuvers his opponents by manufacturing a general conviction that the present moment is exceptional, and then transforming that state of exception into a permanent emergency. Citizens then trade real freedom for fake safety.” He hoped that it would serve as a reminder to the HKPF, and that it would neither become fascist nor manufacture a state of exception using the gathering ban as an excuse, so as to limit people’s freedom.

209. Mr. LAU Ka-yip responded as follows:

(i) The HKPF respected members of the public’s rights to assembly and expression, and its action that evening was to prevent violent incidents and road blockade. The HKPF received a report from someone, and entered the shopping mall to deal with it as a result, and had left there in the shortest amount of time possible. There were two incidents involving objects falling from height that evening, and it was believed that one of them was targeted at police officers. As such, there were reasonable doubts that incidents that would disrupt social peace might take place. (ii) There had to be reasonable doubts when intercepting and searching someone, and the circumstances of each case were different. (iii) Since the action that day was part of an overall action, whether any police officers from other districts had entered Tai Po District was related to the positioning of the action. Therefore, it was not appropriate to reveal it at the meeting.

210. Mr. MA Hon-chiu said that the FEHD would review its manpower allocation from time to time, and would not deploy its manpower from Tai Po Hawkers Section to work in other districts. The department’s manpower allocation at present was acceptable. In addition, he had noted

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Members’ suggestion to change the time of its blitz action from time to time. He would forward the suggestion to the officers concerned, and carry out blitz action at different hours in the future.

211. Mr. Dalu LIN opined that how to carry out law enforcement action on the streets was also related to this agenda item. He was intercepted and searched by the HKPF around 12 a.m. last night. He was extremely scared, and fully co-operated with the HKPF’s work. The police officers concerned stated that he was not intercepted because of who he was. Therefore, he hoped that the HKPF representative could go through the records and tell him why he was intercepted and searched. He would also like to know the HKPF’s views on street order and how it would deal with it.

212. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong indicated the HKPF said that it had taken action to prevent violent incidents and road blockade. However, there should be reasons supporting it. Meanwhile, how police officers were geared should also depend on the opponents’ gear. On that day, no one was geared up at the shopping mall, and there was no evidence that violent incidents and crimes would take place. However, the HKPF, despite having complete control of the main access and strategic locations of the shopping mall, still brought along penalty tickets, pens and writing pads and implement the group gathering ban in a targeted manner. If the HKPF wanted to prevent violent incidents that day, based on its usual practice, it would have unfurled the blue banner (Police Warning: This meeting or procession is in breach of the law. Disperse or we may use force) instead of issuing penalty tickets. The HKPF representative also said that someone was targeting the police officers and dropped objects from height. He called it a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, before it set out, the HKPF kept imagining that someone would attack the police officers, and therefore brought along the heavy gear to the scene, yelled at those at the scene in an extremely impolite manner, and used a disproportionate amount of force to achieve what it wanted to happen. He asked the HKPF representatives at the meeting whether they admitted to making a wrong judgement call to have implemented the group gathering ban at the shopping mall on that day.

213. Mr. Richard CHAN said that what he just said was not off-topic, and the HKPF should respond to his questions. Policing was not necessarily a wide-ranging issue. Carrying out law enforcement action was all about being proportionate. If Tai Po Police District was still in command, and had taken such a large-scale action merely because of a singing activity at the shopping mall on the eve of Mother’s Day, he asked the HKPF to also deploy 100 riot police during the next inter-departmental joint operation at Lane Square in Tai Po. That would be what he called proportionate, and showed that Tai Po Police District was still in command of policing in Tai Po. He also asked whether Tai Po Police District was still in command.

214. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that during holidays and weekends in the past, there were a lot of people on the roads near Tai Po Mega Mall. But when police officers showed up, people would

- 72 - disperse. He said that the several police vehicles parked on On Tai Road and On Pong Road had seriously affected the traffic there. As such, he asked what could be done if the law enforcement agency was not complying with the law. Even though the HKPF claimed that it was carrying out law enforcement actions, he could not tell if someone was a plain-clothes police officer. He had asked the HKPF about it on different occasions, but had never received an answer. Police officers were armed with guns, which were disproportionate weapons, and other government departments could not deal with them as a result. He asked what could be done if the law enforcement agency was not complying with the law.

215. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, said that some Members at other committee meetings had talked about the water-filled barriers set up by the HKPF outside Tai Po Police Station. As such, he asked whether the HKPF could remove these water-filled barriers.

216. Mr. LAU Ka-yip responded as follows:

(i) The HKPF had been carrying out law enforcement actions based on intelligence. Once it had gathered a certain amount of intelligence, it would carry out risk assessments and then take corresponding actions. (ii) As regards the follow-up action on issues related to law enforcement officers, there was a robust two-tier complaint system at present. If police officers were found to be in breach of any regulations, complaints could be made to the Complaints Against Police Office. (iii) As regards the setting up of water-filled barriers outside Tai Po Police Station, a couple of months ago, someone hurled a gas bomb into Tai Po Police Station and seriously damaged its facilities. Fortunately, the suspect concerned could be arrested. The HKPF would make the most suitable arrangements and take caution to enhance the security of police stations. It would also review the security measures concerned from time to time so as to minimise the impact on members of the public.

217. The Chairman asked whether it meant that the HKPF would not remove the water-filled barriers outside Tai Po Police Station. In addition, the HKPF had not yet answered Mr. Richard CHAN’s question as to whether Tai Po Police District was still in command.

218. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong said that the HKPF was commenting on but not answering his questions. He asked the HKPF whether it had made a wrong judgement call given the fact that all the intelligence and risk assessments had indicated that violent incidents, road blockade and illegal gathering would take place there, but eventually the fully geared police officers who had entered to shopping mall had only issued penalty tickets for illegal gathering.

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219. Mr. Richard CHAN said that he had seen butchers and vegetable stall workers at Lane Square in Tai Po holding cleavers and hooks. If the HKPF carried out law enforcement action based on intelligence, he urged the HKPF to deploy more than 100 riot police to take part in the next inter-department joint operation.

220. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) Was there a time limit for setting up those water-filled barriers outside Tai Po Police Station? These water-filled barriers were highly obstructive, and might even topple over at any time during inclement weather. (ii) Citing a media report, he said that a “a Sergeant from Kwai Chung Police Station was arrested on suspicion of perverting the course of public justice. He was alleged to have planned the gas bomb case in the middle of the month”. However, he had no idea whether the incident took place in Tai Po.

221. Mr. MAN Nim-chi thanked the HKPF for its response which, however, was highly bureaucratic. Background of the HKPF’s work report stated that the HKPF “had been working closely with various government departments to resolve the traffic congestion problems”. That evening, over a dozen police private vehicles were parked at the roadside, seriously obstructing the roads and the traffic on On Pong Road and On Tai Road. However, he could not identify those who were there, and suspected that some of them were plain-clothes police officers. He knew that the HKPF had a review and complaint mechanism. However, cases were often classified as “sub-judice”. If the mechanism was effective, the situation today would not have taken place. He put on his DC Member card every day, and did not mind identifying himself, but frontline police officers were unwilling to show their call numbers or warrant cards. They were armed, had their face covered and assaulted members of the public everywhere, but members of the public could not tell whether they were police officers or not. He repeated his question, that is, what could be done if the law enforcement agency was not complying with the law.

222. Mr. LAU Ka-yip said that he would not comment at the meeting on the cases mentioned by Members earlier on.

223. The Chairman called for a one-hour recess.

224. The meeting resumed afterwards.

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XI. Reports by the departments concerned regarding the clearing of rubbish and sludge in Lam Tsuen River and Tai Po River in Tai Po (TPDC Paper No. EFA 34/2020 (Revised))

225. The Chairman welcomed all departmental representatives to attend this meeting for this agenda item.

226. At the meeting, representatives of the CEDD, FEHD, EPD and DSD outlined the clearing of rubbish and sludge in Lam Tsuen River and Tai Po River one after another (please refer to Paper No, EFA 34/2020 (Revised)).

227. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) He had told the department about the accumulation of sludge at the tidal zone of the river channel between Kam Shan and Tai Po. During the high tide on the first day of every lunar month, the water level would be lower than normal, and therefore he could see more refuse at the riverbed. As there was a water gathering ground at Mui Shue Hang along Lam Tsuen River, in theory, the sand at the middle and upper stream would not be flushed downstream. As such, he would like to know why there was still so much sand at the lower stream of that section of Lam Tsuen River, and whether it was because the sediments in the stormwater drains had been flushed down the river. He opined that these sediments were different from the substances found in riverbed as they looked polluted, gave out a stench and affected the water quality. The department had set up water sampling stations at different locations along Lam Tsuen River, and the water at the upper stream above the afore-mentioned water gathering ground belonged to the highest category. However, water quality started deteriorating below Kam Shan. He asked whether the DSD, apart from clearing the refuse and sludge at the riverbed on a regular basis, had tried to find out the source of sludge and prevent it from appearing. He pointed out that some had suggested using other methods instead of connecting the stormwater drains directly with the river channel, so as to improve the water quality of Shing Mun River in Sha Tin. As such, he opined that the department could do the same in Lam Tsuen River. Even if the EPD could not root out the illegal discharge of wastewater, it could also prevent the polluted wastewater from being discharged directly into the river channel. It could also prevent the rain from flushing the sediments in stormwater drains to the river channel, so as to improve the water quality of that section of Lam Tsuen River. (ii) The FEHD indicated that as algae and phytoplankton were found in Lam Tsuen River and Tai Po River in April 2019, the amount of refuse cleared that month had

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increased substantially. He asked the reasons why such a huge amount of algae and phytoplankton showed up.

228. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) The department’s report did not cover the part of Lam Tsuen River inside Lam Tsuen. Therefore, he asked whether it would consider incorporating it into the report. (ii) The inflatable dam at Mui Shue Hang would block the water flow. Only a little amount of water would flow downwards, and the river channel from Kam Shan to Hung Kiu had almost dried up as a result. He asked whether the departments concerned would consider the continuity of the entire river. (iii) There were lots of weeds in the river channel of Lam Tsuen River, and goats would sometimes get down the river channel to feed on them. However, their faeces would also drop into the river. He asked the departments about their views on animal faeces dropping into the river.

229. Mr. CHOW Yuen-wai said that there was so little water at the Mui Shue Hang part of Lam Tsuen River that it had almost dried up. Some who lacked civic-mindedness even discarded refuse at the dried riverbed, and the hygiene condition was so poor that the department had to send staff to clear the refuse there from time to time. In addition, there was so little water in the river channel that it could not wash the sludge away. As such, he asked whether the department could revitalise that section of river channel. Meanwhile, there was often wastewater flowing out from the drains along Lam Tsuen River. Some of the wastewater was frothy, and he suspected that it came from the eateries and garages around Yan Hing Street in Tai Po. As such, he hoped that the departments concerned could find the source of wastewater, so as to improve the water quality of Lam Tsuen River.

230. Mr. Nick LAM said that some frothy water had flown out of the drainage pipes of Lam Tsuen River near Yan Hing Street. He had asked the departments concerned about it, but they said that they could not track down the source in a short amount of time. He believed that it might be the wastewater coming from car washes at the nearby garages. As such, he asked whether the departments concerned could educate the garages, such as telling them not to wash vehicles outdoors, lest the wastewater flow into the gully traps, etc.

231. Mr. NG Wing-hung responded as follows:

(i) In general, the DSD called the Lam Tsuen River below Mui Shue Hang lower stream, and that above the WSD’s nylon dam upper stream. Meanwhile, the

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section of Lam Tsuen River inside Lam Tsuen Valley also belonged to the upper stream. The DSD completed the river channel improvement works at the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River several years ago, and had planted vegetation there to turn it into a green river channel, and cut the grass on a regular basis. As the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River was popular among members of the public, the department did not want that section of river channel to become barren. As such, it would cut the grass there less frequently, namely twice a year in general, and the frequency would also be changed depending on how tall the weeds were. (ii) For safety reasons, the department did not encourage members of the public to go down the river channel. Generally speaking, there were barriers along the river channel, and it should be difficult for goats to over them. As such, the department was checking if there was any gap in the barriers along the river channel that allowed goats to go down the river channel. He would arrange for inspections after the meeting. (iii) The WSD would use the water at the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River for other purposes, and had set up a nylon dam near Mui Shue Hang. As a result, the amount of water at the lower stream had been reduced. The DSD was reviewing whether it could revitalise the lower stream of Lam Tsuen River, and such work would be given a ranking according to the urgency and feasibility of all river channels in the territory. Once further updates were available, it would report to the DC. (iv) In the past couple of days, the DSD inspected the locations where wastewater could be discharged (including the garages and eateries on Yan Hing Street, etc.) with Mr. Nick LAM, the EPD and FEHD. He asked the EPD and FEHD to provide further details on their reporting and inspection efforts.

232. Mr. MA Hon-chiu responded as follows:

(i) The FEHD was responsible for managing the hygiene of eateries. When inspecting the eateries, the department’s staff would check if they had installed the required grease traps and drainage systems. They would remind the eateries if they had noticed any problem, and would initiate prosecution if there was enough evidence. (ii) For the time being, he could not provide the reasons for the substantial increase of algae and phytoplankton in Lam Tsuen River and Tai Po River in April 2019. Once the relevant information was available in the future, however, he could provide it for the EFAC.

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(Post-meeting note: The FEHD said that one of the reasons, it believed, was that some of the vegetation had been flushed into Lam Tsuen River and Tai Po River by heavy rain in April 2019.)

233. Ms. LUK Wai-yun, Connie responded as follows:

(i) The EPD had not received any complaint and information regarding floating algae in April 2019. The department would continue to monitor the water quality, and had set up more than a dozen sampling stations along Lam Tsuen River. In the past five years, water quality at the upper stream had remained at the excellent level, and that at two locations in the lower stream at the good level. The EPD had been closely monitoring the sources of illegal discharge along the coast of Lam Tsuen River. If anyone had been found in breach of the Water Pollution Control Ordinance, stringent law enforcement action would be taken. However, the threshold for evidence and prosecution was so high that the department had to prove the source of discharge, and whether the wastewater discharged had been polluted. There had to be enough evidence so as to initiate prosecution against suspected illegal discharge. (ii) The department was aware of the car washes on Yan Hing Street and had been working hard to follow up on it, which included educating the garages and reminding them not to discharge the wastewater from car washes into the stormwater drains. As she had mentioned earlier on, the department required sufficient water samples to initiate prosecution. In many cases, however, when the department’s staff arrived at the garage, car washes had been completed. As a result, there might not be enough evidence to prove that the Water Pollution Control Ordinance had been breached. As such, the EPD would work with the departments concerned (such as the HKPF and FEHD) for case referrals, and would study whether the case had violated other relevant legislations (such as illegal parking).

234. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) Page 3 of the DSD’s report stated that the lower stream of Lam Tsuen River was to the east of Kwong Fuk Bridge. In page 5, it stated that the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River was to the west of Kwong Fuk Bridge. He opined that if Kwong Fuk Bridge was used to separate the upper and lower streams of Lam Tsuen River, Lam Tsuen Valley would not be included. (ii) There were three tributaries in Lam Tsuen Valley flowing towards Lam Tsuen River, while the source of Lam Tsuen River was Ng Tung Chai Waterfall, which flowed

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all the way to Tai Po Town Centre. He had noticed blockage and other issues in many tributaries. As Tai Po District covered an expansive area, it would be difficult for him to talk about all the issues. As such, he would like to inspect them with the department’s staff.

235. Mr. WU Yiu-cheong said that the department had yet to answer the question about the source of sludge in Lam Tsuen River. He had seen African mouth-brooders laying eggs at the bottom of Lam Tsuen River, but no other creatures were breeding there. As only African mouth- brooders could survive in water of poor quality, it meant that the water quality of the river was poor. As stated by the EPD earlier, the water quality at the lower stream of Lam Tsuen River was not as good as that at the upper stream. As such, he asked whether sludge was the reason that affected water quality. If yes, how to prevent sludge, how to find its source, or how to reduce its amount?

236. Mr. KWAN Wing-yip asked, if someone was pouring wastewater into the stormwater drains, but the EPD could not arrive in time to initiate prosecution, could the video footage that had captured the action be used as the department’s prosecution evidence?

237. Mr. NG Wing-hung responded as follows:

(i) Lam Tsuen River covered an expansive area and there were many tributaries in Lam Tsuen Valley. In general, the DSD regarded the natural river channel in Lam Tsuen Valley near Kadoorie Farm as the source of the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River. The department would later give the location concerned a more appropriate name, so as to make it easier for DC Members and members of the public to tell the location of river channel. (ii) The many tributaries of Lam Tsuen River in Lam Tsuen Valley flowed through a lot of villages and into the main river channel. As such, he could not rule out that there were blockages in certain locations. Members were welcomed to inform the DSD of the blockage locations and inspect the sites together, so as to confirm which department was responsible for clearing the blockages. (iii) The sludge in Lam Tsuen River mainly came from the upper stream, its tributaries and Tolo Harbour. It was a natural phenomenon that even if the DSD cleared it on a regular basis, it could not prevent it from accumulating. High and low tides would wash the ocean sand and mud everywhere. As such, during high and low tides, sediments could be found at the river channel near Tai Wo Bridge. In addition, as the seabed of Tolo Harbour was at a higher level, it might wash the sediments back to the river channel. There was sludge from the lower stream to the outlet of Lam Tsuen River. During low tides, it might be easier to see sludge

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at the coast, and the CEDD had also been monitoring the sludge at riverbed. There was relatively less sediment coming from the tributaries. Otherwise, it would have been accumulated somewhere before reaching the main river channel. The DSD had been inspecting and clearing the upper stream on a regular basis, and had not found any clear discharge of sediments in any section of river channel. Even for the construction site in Area 1 in Tai Po where construction works were underway, no clear soil erosion had been noticed either.

238. Ms. Connie LUK said that in general, it was rather difficult to initiate prosecution under the Water Pollution Control Ordinance by using video footages. However, if Members could provide the relevant information, the department would also follow up on it. The enactment of Water Pollution Control Ordinance was targeted at illegal discharge, and it was necessary to prove the source of discharge and whether water had been polluted. As such, the lack of sufficient water samples might not meet the threshold for prosecution. If Members had the video footages concerned, they FEHD might be able to initiate prosecution under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance.

239. Mr. YIU Yeuk-sang said that the upper stream of Lam Tsuen River near Ma Wat River also had to be cleared. As such, he hoped that he could inspect there with the relevant Members and the DSD.

240. The Chairman asked the departments concerned to contact the relevant Members after the meeting for follow-up action.

XII. Progress report of the Working Group on Tai Po District Environmental Controls (TPDC Papers No. EFA 35/2020 (Revised), EFA 36/2020 and EFA 37/2020)

241. Mr. CHAN Wai-kuen outlined Paper No. EFA 35/2020 (Revised).

242. Ms. WONG Sin-man, Mabel outlined Papers No. EFA 36/2020 and EFA 37/2020.

243. Mr. Lam Yick-kuen asked whether matters relating to unauthorised building works should be handed over to the Planning, Housing and Works Committee (“PHWC”) for action. In addition, the TPDLO’s work report only included the number of unauthorised building works cases in the rural area. As such, he asked whether the office could provide the number of unauthorised building works cases in the urban area.

244. Mr. MAN Nim-chi said that he had sent an email to the TPDLO, asking about the illegal occupation of a land on a slope above Nam Hang next to Chung Nga Road. He had also

- 80 - forwarded the email to the CEDD and Planning Department (“Plan D”), and would like to know whether the activities being carried out at the land at present was legal.

245. Mr. AU Chun-ho said that there were two long abandoned motorcycles outside Tai Yuen Estate. The one left at the area managed by the TPDLO had been removed. However, as the other was located in an area managed by the HyD, the TPDLO could not remove it. Nevertheless, since the HyD had indicated that it would not deal with abandoned vehicles, he would like to know how the departments would remove vehicles located at sites managed by the HyD.

246. Mr. Richard CHAN’s comments and questions were as follows:

(i) A covered warehouse had been built on an open-air warehouse site outside Nam Wa Po. To his understanding, the matters were under the BD’s purview. As such, he asked whether the BD’s report should be incorporated into the work report. (ii) A lot of construction materials had been stored at the site under Yuen Leng footbridge on Tai Wo Service Road West, and the site was rather disorganised. As someone had recently been crushed to death by a falling rock nearby, he asked which department was responsible for the matters concerned. (iii) The TPDLO had received 23 more complaints about abandoned vehicles in March and April 2020. As such, he believed that the number of abandoned vehicles would keep increasing. He asked whether non-metered parking spaces were managed by the TPDLO, and whether the TPDLO should be notified for follow- up action if someone had left their damaged vehicles at these parking spaces on a long-term basis.

247. Mr. YIU Kwan-ho said that there was a lot of illegally parked bicycles along Fo Chun Road in Pak Shek Kok, such as at the exit of St. Martin and Solaria near Fo Chun Road, etc. One of the major illegal bicycle parking blackspots was at the roadside railings near the shopping arcade of Mayfair By The Sea and St. Martin, where the abandoned bicycles had occupied almost a quarter of the road. He hoped that the departments would incorporate that location into their inter-departmental joint bicycle clearance operations.

248. Mr. AU Chun-wah said that according to the usual practice, the departments would report the various aspects of their work reports (including housing) to the EFAC. He asked the Secretariat to review the contents of work reports and hand over different issues to the committees concerned for action.

249. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung responded as follows:

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(i) The Lands D was responsible for land administrative work, which included dealing with illegal occupation of government site, as well as structures like vehicle sheds, covers at open-air cafes, flower beds, low parapet walls on slopes, etc. Meanwhile, the BD was responsible for dealing with unauthorised building works on private land. (ii) As regards the suspected illegal occupation of a site on the slope above Nam Hang next to Chung Nga Road as mentioned by Mr. MAN Nim-chi, the office had deployed staff to inspect the site earlier on, and found structures at the site. As the site’s terrain was complicated, the office had to seek help from the District Survey Office, Tai Po to ascertain the type of the site concerned, so as to carry out the corresponding regulatory actions. (iii) The TPDLO would refer to the type of the site to deal with abandoned vehicles, and assist in dealing with the abandoned vehicles found on unleased government sites other than public roads and public carparks. As for the abandoned vehicles found on public roads and at public carparks, they would be dealt with by other relevant departments. (iv) As regards Mr. Richard CHAN’s enquiries about the covered warehouse in Nam Wa Po, the site concerned was a private land, and the TPDLO had referred the unauthorised building works to the BD for follow-up action. (v) For the time being, the TPDLO did not have the information about the storage of a substantial amount of construction materials under Yuen Leng Village footbridge as mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN. Therefore, he asked Mr. Richard CHAN to provide him with the relevant information after the meeting, and the office would deploy staff for follow-up action and investigation. (Post-meeting note: The TPDLO had contacted Mr. Richard CHAN after the meeting and took follow-up action as regards the issue he was concerned with, namely the storage of a substantial amount of construction materials under Yuen Leng Village footbridge.)

250. Ms. Mabel WONG said that she had noted the illegal bicycle parking problems in Pak Shek Kok, and would take follow-up actions with other departments after the meeting.

(Post-meeting note: The TPDLO had incorporated the illegal bicycle parking locations concerned into the inter-departmental joint bicycle clearance operation for action.)

251. The Chairman said that he would discuss with Mr. AU Chun-wah and Mr. KWAN Wing- yip after the meeting as regards the issues covered by the work report.

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252. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, said that the two non-metered carparks in Shui Long Wo and Kei Ling Ha Lo Wai had long been occupied by abandoned vehicles, which had turned the carparks into junkyards and had lost their original functions. He had been following up on it for a long time, and therefore hoped that the TPDLO and HyD could discuss the abandoned vehicles at the above locations together.

253. Mr. Richard CHAN asked in which committee he should bring up the case about the construction of a covered warehouse on an open-air warehouse site that he had mentioned earlier.

254. Mr. LEE Yu-sau, Terence said that the PHWC’s terms of reference included “to advise on housing affairs, including planning, proposed types of housing developments, housing facilities and estate management; and to advise on district development, including town planning and land uses”. As for the EFAC, “to examine the environmental problems in the district, identify hygiene blackspots” was the only part in its terms of reference that was relevant. Having examined the EFAC’s terms of reference, the issues mentioned by Mr. Richard CHAN appeared to be more relevant to the PHWC. He would follow up on it after the meeting, so as to find out which committee should be responsible for the issues concerned.

255. Mr. Nick LAM said that he had told the HKPF about the abandoned motorcycles on Heung Sze Wui Street at the previous meeting. The HKPF said that even if the vehicle had been regarded as abandoned, it still had to work with other departments to deal with it. He asked, if the HKPF was slow in dealing with the matter, whether other mechanisms could be used, such as bypassing the HKPF and asking other departments to deal with abandoned vehicles, so as to enhance the efficiency.

256. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung said that according to the office’s guidelines, the Lands D was not the department for executing traffic legislations. As such, abandoned vehicles in an area maintained by the HyD would be referred to the HyD for action, and that included the vehicles abandoned at the roadside mentioned by Mr. Nick LAM. As for the abandoned vehicles on unleased government sites, the TPDLO would follow up on them.

257. Mr. KWAN Wing-yip said that to his understanding, metered parking spaces were managed by the TD. As such, he found it necessary to discuss with the TD about the prolonged occupation of metered parking spaces. At previous meetings, follow up action had also been taken on abandoned motorcycles on pedestrian ways, and the HKPF had said that it had to confirm with the TD whether the vehicles concerned had been abandoned. Since the TD was the licensing authority, it had to confirm with and track down the vehicle owner to find out whether the vehicle had become trash. He asked whether the TPDLO would not be responsible for the vehicles at metered parking spaces even if they had become trash, and whether the office would only deal with abandoned vehicles at other locations (such as government sites on slopes). He also asked

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whether it was necessary to confirm that the vehicles concerned had been abandoned before removing them.

258. Mr. CHAN Siu-hung responded as follows:

(i) Metered parking spaces were managed by the TD. If the vehicle registration licence of an abandoned vehicle had expired, the HKPF could refer to the licence’s information and find out its last owner and ask him to remove it. In addition, when dealing with abandoned vehicles, the TPDLO would check with the HKPF whether they were missing vehicles. Missing vehicles would be dealt with by the HKPF. If the vehicle concerned was not a missing vehicle, and the office had contacted its last owner who, however, had not removed it before the deadline, the office would remove the abandoned vehicle according to the law. (ii) The TPDLO would identify which department was responsible for an abandoned vehicle according to the type of the site, and would discuss with the HyD as regards the ways to deal with abandoned vehicles in areas managed by the HyD.

259. Mr. AU Chun-wah said that at the previous term DC, he had talked about someone who hoarded refuse at a unit next to the carpark near Chan Hon Kee Restaurant. Some of the refuse were even stacked up in the carpark, and there was a long abandoned private vehicle at the metered parking space outside the unit as well. The HKPF had repeatedly said that no one claimed to be the vehicle’s owner. At the urging of a number of departments, however, the vehicle was towed away less than two months later. As such, he hoped that the departments could reach a consensus on ways to deal with the abandoned vehicles at metered parking spaces and other locations as soon as possible, and put forward a complete proposal at the next meeting.

260. The Chairman asked the TPDLO to invite all relevant departments, such as the TD, HyD and HKPF to discuss the issues concerned, so as to deal with the abandoned vehicles in Tai Po District. He suggested Members gather the location and information of abandoned vehicles in the district, and then forward them to the office for follow-up action.

XIII. Introduction of food waste processing and recycling in the district by the Environmental Protection Department (TPDC Papers No. EFA 38/2020, EFA 39/2020 and EFA 42/2020)

261. The Chairman said that at the previous meeting, the EFAC had carried out preliminary studies as regards the direction of future discussions on environmental protection issues. Meanwhile, the EPD had drawn up a report as regards the food waste and recycling in the district that Members talked about last time. The report had been set out in Papers No. EFA 38/2020

- 84 - and EFA 39/2020. As the issues concerned were under the purview of a number of EPD units, Members could first voice their comments as regards the information provided by the EPD, asked Ms. Connie LUK to gather their views and then forward them to the relevant units of the department. If necessary, the EFAC could again invite the staff of the relevant units of the department to attend the next EFAC meeting.

262. Ms. Connie LUK outlined Papers No. EFA 38/2020 and EFA 39/2020. To enhance the on- site support for recycling, the EPD in 2018 set up out-reaching teams, which collaborated closely with community partners to educate the public on the importance of waste reduction at source and assist them to practise waste separation at source and clean recycling properly. The out-reaching teams had rolled out a pilot scheme in three districts (namely Eastern, Kwun Tong and Sha Tin), and the out-reaching services would expand to the entire territory, including Tai Po District, starting from 2020. As regards the RCPs and CRCs, when planning for new RCPs, the EPD had been studying with the FEHD the provision of an area or facilities for members of the public for recycling on the premises of not affecting the effectiveness and efficiency of refuse collection services.

263. The Chairman asked whether Members agreed to deal with the agenda item of “Discussion on four food waste recycling schemes: sewage treatment works, O·PARK2, food waste in country parks and compost mapping in the community” at this agenda item.

264. Members agreed with the change.

265. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, outlined Paper No. EFA 42/2020.

266. The Chairman said that some of the issues brought up were related to the AFCD and DSD, but their representatives were not present at this meeting. As such, he suggested the EPD representatives do its best to answer the parts related to the EPD first, and continue with the discussion at the next meeting.

267. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

268. Ms. Connie LUK responded as follows:

(i) As regards the “Food Waste / Sewage Sludge Anaerobic Co-digestion Trial Scheme”, Tai Po Sewage Treatment Works could treat up to 50 tonnes of food waste per day. As the scheme was still at the trial stage, it could treat around 15 to 20 tonnes per day at present. It would focus on treating the food waste of ten food factories in Tai Po Industrial Estate, and the food waste was collected and treated in a centralised manner. The trial scheme had been running since May

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2019, and a number of parameters had to be tested, such as the mixing ratio of food waste and sewage sludge, etc. Depending on the progress, the department might expand its service area to cover the food waste of other industrial and commercial establishments. If the outcome was satisfactory, it would be expanded to collecting domestic food waste. The department would pre-treat the food waste collected each day, deliver it to the sewage sludge anaerobic digester at Tai Po Sewage Treatment Works, mix it with sewage sludge for anaerobic co-digestion, and turn food waste into energy. This was the first similar trial scheme rolled out together by the EPD and DSD. (ii) The scheme was still at the early stages. As such, all parameters and settings had to be handled with extreme care, so as to ensure that the anaerobic co-digestion would go smoothly, and to find out the best settings and requirements of anaerobic co-digestion. (iii) O·PARK2 was located at Sandy Ridge in North District, and its operation and construction contract was awarded in August 2019. It was expected to commence operation in 2022, and treat up to 300 tonnes of food waste per day. O·PARK2 mainly treated the separated food waste from industrial and commercial establishments in Fanling, Sheung Shui, Yuen Long, etc. If the recycling network continued to expand in the future, it might be expanded to provide food waste treatment services for some of the residents in North District. (iv) In February 2014, the Environment Bureau promulgated “A Food Waste & Yard Waste Plan for Hong Kong 2014-2022”, which had set out four strategies for the management of food waste, namely reduction at source, reuse and donation, recyclable collection, and turning food waste into energy. Among the major strategic constructions under the scheme were the O·PARKs, which could create a network and turn food waste into renewable energy and useful materials with the help of advance technology. At present, the EPD had no plans to match food waste producers with recyclers. However, the department was open-minded about holding small-scale food waste-turned-compost activities in the rural area, so as to improve soil quality for horticulture or agriculture purposes, etc.

269. The Chairman suggested inviting the relevant units of the EPD, as well as the DSD and AFCD staff, to attend the next meeting to respond to the questions put forward by Mr. TAM Yi- pui, the Vice-chairman. He also suggested handing over the issues concerned to the Working Group on Environmental Protection and Improvement for in-depth discussions.

270. Members agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

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XIV. Any other business

(1) Request to follow up on the animal trap issues in Tai Po District (TPDC Paper No. EFA 40/2020)

271. Ms. Olive CHAN outlined the above paper.

272. The Chairman said that as the Secretariat received the paper concerned on 29 April, which was less than 10 clear working days before this meeting, it could not invite the relevant departments to attend the meeting. He was highly concerned about the issues, and was worried that other animals in the community might accidentally fall into the traps. As such, he suggested incorporating this agenda item into the agenda of the next meeting for continued follow-up actions.

(2) Testing tear gas as harmful organic chlorides (TPDC Paper No. EFA 43/2020)

274. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, outlined the above paper.

275. The Chairman said that as the paper was submitted by Members less than 10 clear working days before this meeting, the responsible officers of the relevant departments could not be invited to attend the meeting.

276. Mr. HO Wai-lam suggested postponing the agenda item to the next meeting, or handing it over to other Working Groups for follow-up actions.

277. Mr. Dalu LIN said that he agreed with incorporating this agenda item into Matters Arising for continued follow-up actions. At the previous meeting, the EFAC endorsed the setting up of an inter-departmental group to follow up on the tear gas issues. Several media reports about tear gas and toxic substances had mentioned that some members of the public had died after inhaling tear gas at the scene of social movement, while the health of foetuses had also been affected. As such, he urged the FEHD and Hospital Authority to set up a medical database for those who had been harmed by crowd control weapons. He said that there was no clinical data at present that could show how the gas and toxic substances would affect human beings. As such, he hoped that when dealing with the relevant issues in the future, he could check the data for reference.

278. The Chairman suggested continue to discuss this agenda item at the next meeting, and decide at the next meeting whether to hand it over to a working group for follow-up actions.

279. Members agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

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280. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, said he hoped that the EPD staff responsible for air quality testing and the HKPF representatives could attend the next meeting for this agenda item.

(3) Request for TPDC to follow up on matters concerning increase of Members’ roadside display spots (TPDC Paper No. EFA 44/2020)

281. The Chairman said that at the meeting on 5 May 2020, the TPDC resolved to hand the above issue over to the EFAC for continued discussions.

282. Mr. CHAN Wai-kuen said that the TPDLO had noted Members’ views at the TPDC meeting on 5 May. It had forwarded the comments to the Lands D, which was examining them at the moment.

283. The Chairman suggested incorporating the agenda item into Matters Arising for continued follow-up actions.

(4) Concern over frontline street cleaners’ preventive measures for COVID-19 in Tai Po District (TPDC Paper No. EFA 45/2020)

284. The Chairman said that at the meeting on 5 May 2020, the TPDC resolved to hand the above issue over to the EFAC for continued discussions.

285. Mr. MA Hon-chiu asked Members to refer to the FEHD’s response to the DC as regards the captioned matter (please refer to Annex). The FEHD was highly concerned with the anti- epidemic issues of cleaners. As early as on 17 February, the FEHD started handing out masks to cleaners, including those who cleaned the streets, public toilets, RCPs and wet markets, etc. Since 2 April, it had also been handing out masks to the contractors’ frontline foremen and drivers on duty, as well as the frontline workers of pest control contractors. The staff concerned were all given masks every day for anti-epidemic purposes. He believed that there was a sufficient supply of masks for the staff in Tai Po District. The department also checked with the contractors from time to time, and the contractors also had enough masks for their staff. So far, no frontline workers did not have sufficient masks, and no contractors had stopped handing out masks.

286. The Chairman said that Members were highly concerned with the anti-epidemic issues of frontline workers, including the staff of the Environmental Hygiene Section and Pest Control

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Section who had to work outside. As such, he hoped that if a similar situation happened next time, it could be impartial to everyone and hand out masks to all frontline staff.

287. Mr. AU Chun-wah said that some out-sourced cleaners had told him that some contractors failed to provide sufficient anti-epidemic gear for their staff. While the department had confirmed that the contractors had enough masks, it could not confirm how many they would hand out to the frontline staff. As such, he hoped that the department could carry out spot checks and take follow-up actions.

288. The Chairman suggested incorporating the agenda item into the next meeting for continued follow-up actions.

289. Members agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

(5) Occupational Safety and Health Council “Occupational Safety and Health Promotional Campaign 2020-21”

290. The Secretary said that in April 2020, the TPDC sought Members’ views by way of circulating TPDC Paper No. 29/2020 to consider whether to accept a subsidy of up to $40,000 from the Occupational Safety and Health Council (“OSHC”), and had asked the EFAC to follow up on the matters concerned. After the above paper had been endorsed, the Secretariat made an open invitation to the district organisations in April and had uploaded the invitation letter onto its website, so as to invite organisations that were interested in applying for the above subsidy to submit an application to the Secretariat. The Secretariat would then submit the applications to the EFAC for Members to consider whether to recommend to the OSHC for approval. As at the deadline, the Secretariat had received one application.

291. The Chairman said that as the Secretariat needed time to draw up the funding papers, it could not submit the application’s details at this meeting for Members’ consideration. As the OSHC’s deadline to receive applications was 31 May, the EFAC could not wait until the next scheduled meeting in July to consider the application again. As such, he asked if Members agreed to consider whether the EFAC should recommend the application to the OSHC by way of circulation of papers after the meeting.

292. The Secretary said that the deadline for applications was the previous Friday. The day before the meeting, however, the Secretariat received one application for a drama activity relating to occupational safety and health. Therefore, it did not have enough time to draw up the papers for Members to examine the activity’s information such as details and expenditure. As such, he

- 89 - would like to ask if Members agreed to consider whether to recommend this application to the OSHC by way of circulation of papers.

293. Mr. Richard CHAN agreed to deal with the application by way of circulation of papers.

294. Members agreed to consider whether they agreed to recommend the application to the OSHC by way of circulation of papers.

(Post-meeting note: The EFAC had endorsed recommending the application to the OSHC by ways of circulation of papers after the meeting, and the Secretariat had also submitted the application to the OSHC.)

(6) Submission of past information and figures by departments

295. The Chairman said that at the previous meeting, the EFAC asked the departments to submit the information and figures for 2018 and 2019 at the same time, and all of them had provided the relevant information at this meeting. However, as there might not be any changes in the information concerned, he asked Members whether the departments, starting from the next meeting, still needed to provide information for 2018 and 2019 for every meeting. He suggested the departments submit the relevant information once a year, so as to reduce the waste of paper.

296. Mr. TAM Yi-pui, the Vice-chairman, agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

297. Mr. Richard CHAN suggested splitting the tables into two and set out the relevant figures there for comparison. It was not necessary to set out the figures in two pages for the sake of clear comparison and saving paper.

298. The Secretary said that at the previous meeting, when considering whether to ask the AFCD and EPD to submit more papers, some Members suggested asking the departments to first submit the papers concerned at this meeting, and then decided whether they had to be provided on a regular basis.

299. The Chairman suggested Members print one set of papers before the meetings on their own for the meetings of the entire year, so as to reduce the waste of paper. An annual basis should also be adopted which meant that the figures for 2019 and 2020 would only be submitted at next year’s meetings. He reminded that as there was a substantial amount of information, it might not be possible to print all of them on the same page.

300. Members agreed with the Chairman’s suggestion.

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XV. Date of next meeting

301. The next meeting would be held at 2:30 p.m. on 15 July 2020 (Wednesday).

(Post-meeting note: The next meeting was later re-scheduled for 9:30 a.m. on 15 July 2020 (Wednesday).)

302. There being no other business, the meeting was adjourned at 7:11 p.m.

Tai Po District Council Secretariat August 2020