66 Special Adjournment. (ASSEMBLY.] Chairnw.n of Committees. shall stand over until Wednesday next, and ORDER OF BUSINESS. that the House shall be adjourned until Mr. T. FITZPATRICK : I should like that day. to know whether the Premier will fix a Debate adjourned. night upon which the business-paper may be cleared of notices of motion. SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I have Motion (Hon. Dr. GARRAN) agreed to: learned that my hon. friend may probably That this House do now adjourn until 'Wed­ vote for the amendment challenging the nesday next. position of the Government; and as, undeL' House adjourned at 6 p.m. such circumstances, the fate of the Govern­ ment will tremble in the balance, I am not ye-t in a posilion to make any state­ ment as to any motion on my part affect­ ing the prosecution of public business while 11.-egi.slatibe \!%zembl!'!. I am in that painful situation. Wednesday, 22 June; 1898. l\Ir. T. FITZPATRICK: The hon. member has no right to assume how I will vote !

Temporary Chairmen of Committees-Committee of Elec­ The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I did tions and Qu~Iifications- Questions-- Lithgow Oo­ not venture to say that the hon. member operath·e Coal Company Railway Bill-Order of Busi­ would vote against us, but there has been ness-Police Superannuation Fund-Chairman of Com· mittees- Governor's Speech : Address in Reply­ considerable speculation in the lobbies as Adjournment (Witnesses at Inquests-Civil Servants to how the hon. gentleman was going to and Federation). vote. However, I shall be happy to see what I can do after this dense shadow has been removed from our path. Mr. SPEAKER took the chair.

TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF POLICE SUPERANNUATION FUND. COMMITTEES. Mr. HOGUE: I desire to ask the Pre­ Mr. SPEAKER nominated Mr. Ashton, mier if it is intended during the present Mr. Cann, Mr. C. A. Lee, Mr. O'Sullivan, session, or at an early date, to place the and Mr. A. B. Piddington temporary chair­ Police Superannuation Fund in a soh·ent men of committees for the current session. condition 1 The Right Ron. G. H. REID: I am COMMITTEE OF ELECTIONS AND sorry that I have to give the hon. member QUALIFICATIONS. - the same answer that I gave to my hon. Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the table his friend opposite, namely, that until the warrant, nominating Mr. W. M. Hughes, amendment to the address in reply is Mr. Russell Jones, Mr. Wright, Mr. Fegan, disposed of, it is not usual for the Govern­ Dr. Graham, Mr. Chanter, Mr. Cruick­ ment to announce their future intentions. shank, Mr. Gormly, and Mr. McLean, It is only resrectful to my hon. friend, the members of the Committee of Elections leader of the Opposition, that I should and Qualifications. take that course.

QUESTIONS. CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. The Right Hon. G. H. REID : The Motion (by Mr. C. A. LEE) agreed to: Government do not propose to answer any That ·william McCourt, Esquire, be Chairman questions while the amendment to the of Committees of the whole House for the present address in reply moved last night by the session. leader of the Opposition is under considera­ :M:r. McCOURT (Bowral) : I have to tion by the House. thank hon. members for again electing me to the position of Chairman of Com­ LITHGOW CO-OPERATIVE COAL mittees, and I can assure them that during COMPANY RAILWAY BILL. the session I shall do all in my power to Proceedings resumed (on motion by Mr. give satisfaction to the House in that HoGUE) under Standing Order No. 409. position. [The Hon. J. H. Want. Governur s Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 67

GOVERNOR'S SPEECH : ADDRESS IN settlers who, under the arbitrary action of REPLY. the Land Act, have been compelled to Debate resumed (from 21st June, vide select land valued by the law above its page 5-i ), on motion by Mr. Rigg : actual value. Before I pass from this refee­ That the following address in reply to the ence to land matters, I will endeavour to Governor's opening speech, as read by the Clerk, refute a grossly incorrect statement made be now adopted by this House : yestet·day by the hon. member for Fitzroy To His Excellency the Right H01wrable HENRY Division, a statement made, I imagine, as ROBERT, VISCOUNT HAMPDEN, Governor and the result of want of knowledge of the par­ Commandel··in·Chief of the Colony of New South Wales and its Dependencies. ticular matter referred to. The hon. mem­ May it please your Excellency : ber stated that as a result of the land policy \Ve, her Majesty's loyal an.i dutiful subjects, of the present Administration thousands of the members of the Legislative Assembly of New settlers were at the present time starving. South \Vales, in Parliament assembled, desire That statement shows a complete want of. to express our thanks for your Excellency's knowledge of the cause and effect of the speech, and to assure you of our unfeigned at. tachment to her most gracious· Majesty's throne working of the land law in question. The and person. present land law, the one to which the \Ve desire to assure your Excellency that the hon. member referred, was passed, I think. utmost consideration will be given to the mea­ in 1895, and commenced to be effective in stues that will be submitted to us. 1896~ That is only three years ago. The \Ye join your -Excellency in the hope that settlers to whom the hon. member referred, under the guidance of Divine providence our labours may be so directed as to advance the taking up probably homestead or settle­ best interests of the colony. ment leases, could not in the three years, under the terms of their tenure, have been Upon which Mr. Lyne had moYed: reduced to starvation by the operation of That the address be amended by the insertion of the. following words, to stand paragraph 2 : that act. Had they taken up land unde1~ -" That this House desires to inform your the old conditional purchase conditions, Excellency that it declines to allow the present they would have been required to pay a Administration to deal with the important ques­ deposit of 2s. per acre, instead of which, tion of federation." under the present law, they have to pay a Mr. MILLEN (Bourke) [ 4·45]: I desire rental of ld., 2d., or 3d. an acre for the to address my remarks briefly to the speech same land. Their rental for three years,. to which we are asked to reply, and then taking it at 3d. per acre, would be 9d. at somewhat greater length to regard the The rent they huve paid to the Crown political situation as forced upon the at­ during three years is 9d. an acre as against tention of the House by the amendment 2s. they would have been required to pay moved by the hon. member for The Hum e. under the previously existing system. The many minor matters dealt ·with in the Mr. ·WILLIS: Whut about the security1 speech of his Excellency the Governor I J\fr.ASHTO~: They have bought nothing t do not propose to refer to, except to make Mr. MILLEN : I am coming to that. a brief allusion to the paragraph in which The position of the men who are alleged the Government intimate their intention to be starving to-day as the result of the of conceding a measure of belated justice system of homestead settlement is that to an extremely important section of the they have Is. 3d. an acre more in their community. I desire to congratulate the pockets to-day than they would have had Government upon having had the courage if they had taken up the land under the to at last take up in seriousness a matter conditional purchase system. I admit at which has been the cause of continual once that if it comes to a question of agitation for many years, and which ought, negotiating or borrowing money the con­ in my opinion long since, to have been ditional purchase system offered facilities dealt with. I believe that when we come which the present system does not offer. to grapple with this question closely it will But what does that mean~ Is it not an be fonncl that the financial responsibilities admission that the principal thing aimed will not rest as heavily upon the Govern­ at by the Land Act has been accomplished 7 ment as at first sight this obligation might That the operations of the syndicate seem to imply. In these remarks I refer to " mongers," the men who have made the the proposal to revalue the.lands.of those name of Mercadool stink throughout the Second night. 68 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

country, have been stopped by the land Mr. CRICK : That is simply burking the system we have adopted, shows that that whole thing; the Land Court is the proper system is doing the very thing for which body to make inquiry ! we have adopted it. It may be that some Mr. MILLEN: The hon. member knows, men have mistaken altogether the opera­ as a lawyer, that it is extremely hard tion of this act, and have been led away by within the limits of the law to deal with the belief that they could do to-day what these questions. used to be done in previous years. Many Mr. CRICK : I see ; you want to get of these people may have gone on the land outside of the law ! with insufficient capital, but the Govern­ Mr. MILLEN: No; I want to get out­ ment and the land law are 11ot responsible side some information which you lawyers for that. I know men have taken up land will accept in a law court, and, if possible, as homestead selections, and the very next to get a commission which will make a morning they presented themselves to the report to this House showing the House storekeeper and asked him to supply the and the country what is going on in the wire to fence the land. ·when they found western division. Then this House can the storekeeper would not do so, that they legislate on the subject. could not mortgage the land and make a Mr. CRICK : I think the inquiry ought trade of it, they expressed surprise, and to be held, and there are three members of some of them, to my knowledge, abandoned this House who will also find there is their land, buttheyotightnevertohave been something to answer ! there. They never meant to settle on the Mr. WILLIS: Hear, hear! We will see land and utilise it. They simply went there what they got out of it! with the object of making a commercial Mr. MILLEN : I am quite certain that transaction of it. When the hon. member the hon. member for The Barwon does not for Fitzroy Division was blaming the Go­ know anything about the particular trans­ vernment for their land administration, I actions I am referring to. I now desire was surprised that he did not ask the ques­ to refer to the question of the Convention tion that I now propose to ask, and I regret Bill and the action taken by the leader of the Secretary for Lands is not present to the Opposition in connection therewith. give me the information. I desire to know In dealing with. this subject I have to from his colleague what is being done with admit at once that there is a difficulty in regard to the promised inquiry into certain suggesting amendments in the Convention homestead leasing transactions to which Bill, and amendments are now recognised the hon. member for Wilcannia drew atten­ by all sections of the House as necessary tion. I am surprised that the hon. mem­ and desirable. There is a difficulty owing ber for Fitzroy Division, who comes here to the fact that the whole structure of this with the reputation of having a fearless particular measure has been wrong from desire to expose all public abuses, and who beginning to end. It is probably impos­ evidently wished to attack the Ministry sible at this stage to throw aside the bill on this question of land administration, and commence the work afresh; but every­ failed to ask this question which I now thing in that bill to my idea was con­ ask the Government, and to which I desire structed upon a false model, and hon. mem­ an answer. bers will recognise as I do that it will be Mr. CRICK : Why do not you get an utterly impossible to bring that measure answer to that question if you want it~ by any amendments we may now suggest Mr. MILLEN : The Secretary for Lands into an absolutely logical and harmonious is not here. whole. Bearing tltat defect in mind, I The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I have would like to lay down my position with no hesitation in giving an answer to the regard to this bill. There are four essen­ question. I happen to know that a com­ tials which must be kept in view in mission has been issued to Dr. Richard amending the Convention Bill. First, Sly to prosecute the inquiry ; but owing that it shall provide somehow and by to the necessity of appointing him as acting­ some means that the house of repre­ judge at the recent criminal court, the in­ sentatives, as the people's house, should be· quiry has been somewhat delayed. The made the repository of final political power. commission was issued some time ago. The constitution we are to adopt must pro- [Mr. Millen. Governor's Speecl~ : (22 JuNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 69 vide, not merely for the abstract adoption the opinion that the two things were of responsible government, but it must identical. 1\fr. Mcl\fillan, with more pic­ specifically establish responsible govern­ turesque language, described the two ment. There ought, in addition, to be a things as being only the difference between satisfactory financial scheme which, while tweedledum and tweedledee. Sir Richard it would be just as between state and state, Baker is an authority who may .pass with­ and between the states and the common­ out challenge. I will quote words used by wealth, would, at the same time, preclude him since the convention closed. Speaking the prospect of any serious friction. Then in Adelaide, on the 19th April last, he the fourth essential which I support is that expressed an opinion on this subject, and the constitution must be reasonably cap­ it is curious to me how many of the dele· able of amendment. Now, the bill, as it gates put forward one view of the case in stands, does not comply with any one of the convention while they put a totally these conditions, which I advance as being different view before the public when they essential. The programme outlined by the were recommending the constitution to the Government is, to my mind-while, per­ acceptance of their people. Sir Richard haps, not theoretically perfect, and I do Baker said: not look for anything that is theoretically The senate, however, might propose amend­ perfect-but., at any rate, what the Govern­ ments to the other House, and he considerefl ment programme offers to do is a substan­ that the distinction between this provision and the actual making of amendments was a distinc­ tial instalment, and a great stride in the tion without a difference. He regarded the direction which all those who oppose the power of suggestion as really equivalent to the bill desire to take. Whilst I am entirely power of.amenclment. with the Government, so far as it desires to That being the case, I conceive that this go, there are two additional amendments bill cannot safely be accepted unless it .which I think must be included in the provides for the elimination· of that ex<­ bill before I at least can use my humble tremely dangerous power-the powel' of voice to assist its passage into law. One the second chamber to amend money bills. of these would be the elimination from The other amendment, not included in the the Convention Bill of the power of sug­ Government schedule, but which I think gestion. The word "suggestion" is either ought to be included, is a provision for the an idle phrase, or it is a reality. It means modification of clause 127. It has been something or it does not. It means that contended by the advocates of the bill that we are to allow·the senate the power to under its operation the people can amend suggest amendments in money bills; it the constitution when they so desire. But is equivalent to the power of amendment, without detaining hon. members very long or it is mere surplusage. In one case it on this point, let me remind them of the is unnecessary, in the other case it is a peculiar phraseology in which the clause danger. What is the real meaning of this is framed. It provides, not that there word 1 I propose to remind hon. mem­ shall be a clear majority of the people, or bers of the fact that those who are best a majority of the states, but that there qualified to speak on this point have ex­ shall be both a majority of the states and pressed the firm conviction that the power and a majority of the people. How does of suggestion is equivalent to the power of that stand if we have a union of four amendment. I take it that we may safely states? What is a majority of four states? accept M:r. Speaker as well qualified to tell It is not two states. You have to get us the meaning of words in relation to three states on one side before you have a parliamentary procedure. You, sir, in majority of states ; in other words, you the convention at Adelaide, expressed the have to get three states on one side opinion that the power of suggestion before you can achieve any amendment and the. power of making amendments are of the constitution. Now, you might identical. You, sir, with prophetic fore­ have all New South Wales and all Vic­ sight, pointed out that it would be some­ toria desiring an amendment ; but they what difficult to persuade the people of could be blocked by the other two small this colony that there is any substantial states, although they represented an over­ difference between the two things, Another whelming proportion of the people of the delegate, Mr. Carruthers, also expressed country. I do not conceive that there is F Second night. 70 Governm·' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. sufficient elasticity in that clause. To make to the amendment moved by the hon. it a mere question as to which particular member for The Hume. I met with some­ state desires an amendment before you thing like a shock yesterday afternoon when allow the majority of the people living I heard the address he made in relation to under the constitution to say what par­ the Commonwealth Bill. Up to a few days ticular alteration they should have, to say ago I looked upon that gentleman as one of that you should have three states out of the pillars of the opposition to the bill as four, seems to me to suggest the term first it stands. I have listened more than once I think applied by the bon. member for to the powerful addresses he has delivered The Hume when he denounced the bill as at various public meetings in this city, a cast-iron constitution. I believe, and and I have on more than one occasion ex­ theoretically I should regard it as perfect, pressed my admiration for the honesty tl1at a fair majority of the people should and the fearlessness which prompted him have the right to amend the constitution to take up the position which he then as they desire ; but without saying that occupied. At meeting after meeting he that is perhaps altogether obtainable, I elaborated his objections to the bill, time would point out that there is a vast stage after time be urged the defects, which in to be travelled between the Constitution his opinion were sufficient to insure the as it stands and that thereotically perfect c0ndemnation of the bill by the people. point. In the Governor's speech, the Go­ But yesterday I understand, if I am not vernment have not given any indication doing the hon. gentleman an injustice, that of taking any step in that direction. I all his objections have come down to such cannot conceive that this House or that a narrow point that he is able to join this country, if we are to proceed to the hands with Mr. Barton, who would accept work of amending this bill, will allow the bill in its entirety. clause 127 to pass without revision, and I Mr. CRICK : Join hands with honest cordially invite the Government to con­ men we know something about, not a lot ·sider the statements I have made, and to of ruffians ! see whether they cannot include in their Mr. MILLEN: Am I to understand schedule an amendment for the recast­ from the interjector that, little as he likes ing of this clause. Before I pass from the bill, and however much he may regard the subject, let me remind the Govern­ it as a danger to the country, he will take ment of this very curious anomaly-that the bill simply because of some personal it is only when the two houses of the spleen which he entertains for somebody? federal parliament agree as to an amend­ Jl!!:r. CRICK : ---- ment of the constitution the people have Mr. MILLEN : May I point out some the opportunity to say whether they little inconsistency on the part of those will have it. -what an utter absurdity who have combined together for the pur­ it is to imagine this position: where the pose of criticising the attitude of the Go­ two houses agree it is referred to the vernment. One of the objections made by people; but where the two houses disagree the bon. gentleman who leads the Opposi­ the people are never given an opportunity tion was that the Government had for the to say whether or not they want the time being shelved many matters, such as amendment! That might come out very local government and reform of the Upper well in the direction of liberalising this House. This morning the Sydney Morn­ clause. I have mentioned what I regard ing Herald complains of the Government as absolute essentials. There are many as absolutely endeavouring to shelve feder­ other minor defects in the bill which, if ation by introducing into the Governor's they stood by themselves, I should not speech these very matters, the absence of -desire to say a word about. But if we are which the bon. member for The Hume going to take this hill in lmnd and revise lamented. I am not going to find fault ·it, if we have to make any alteration at with the Opposition and their cbiefjournal­ all, there is no reason why we should not istie supporter over a difference of that at the same time consider many of these kind ; but I would remind them of a story minor defects, so that when the work is told by Lord Melbourne when his ministry completed it shall be as near perfection as proposed to make an alteration in the duty it is possible to make it. I want to go on on imported corn. After the cabinet meet- [Mr. llfillen. Governor's Speech: [22 Ju:~m, 1898.] Address in Reply. 71 ing was over at which they had decided to called the Public Service Board into ex­ do so, he called them together and said, istence; and he also overlooked the fact "Gentlemen, I do not know whether this that his Government not long ago endea­ is going to increase or decrease the price voured to establish in this country a sys­ of corn-it does not matter a hang-but tem of income taxation. we had all better tell the same yarn." I Mr. CRICK : The hon. member knows suggest to those gentlemen who propose to that there will be only one question at the attack the Government that they should at general election-and that is federation ! least have a preliminary consultation. Mr. MILLEN : Seeing that the hon. Mr. CRICK: The hon. member does not member's leader and himself invite us to tell the story correctly. What Lord Mel­ consider the consistency of those we are bourne said was, "It does not matter a asked to follow, I think I am entitled to ask damn what we say, but let us all say the whether the gentlemen who are the nominal same thing"! leaders of their party are the models of con­ 1\Ir. MILLEN : I admit that I departed sistency they try to depict them. It seems from accuracy, having some rega,rd for the to me that the sin of the Government is not sensitive feelings of my hon. friend; but I so much in having promised things, but in ·would suggest to hon. gentlemen on the having accomplished them. If the Go­ other side that it might save time and soure vernment had contented themselves with future awkward complications if they would promising certain things, and then drop­ have a preliminary consultation, even if it ping them, the leader of the Opposition is held in the office of the Sydney Morning 'vould not be in a position to utter the He;·ald, so as to arrange what particular charges he uttered yesterday. The sin of yarn they arc going to spin here. I desire the Governme·nt is that having promised to direct attention to some seeming incon­ this House certain things it has carried .sistency on the part of the leader of the out its promises. One other matter to Opposition, first in his reference towards which I will refer before I come to the the proposed legislation for the restriction question of federation is the statement of ·Of alien immigration. He i~1formed the the han. member for The Hume, that in House, as he has done on many previous the proposal for a fiscal referendum in the occasions, that the original bill introduced Governor's speech the Government are lJy this Government was bound to fail ; he taking up an inconsistent attitude in re­ wndemncd it from the start as having no gard to federation itself. I do not say that possible chance of success; but now he I have any faith in the introduction of the tells us that the present bill is also equally fiscal referendum at this stage, but this ineffective. I want to know whether he rebuke of inconsistency does not come with can find fault with the Government for good grace from a gentleman who left the not proceeding with legislation which he convention in Adelaide to take part in a condemns, and which, if placed on the protectionist conference in a Riverina statute-book, is going to be ineffective and township. Is it so long ago that the hon. useless ~ I would also like to ask the hon. member for The Hume, who now says gentleman, although he is not here to give he wants federation, was at Yass say­ me an answer, what does he propose to do~ ing that he would raise the protection­ Mr. CRICK : Who~ ist standard at the coming election ~ Mr. MILLEN: The leader of the hon. If it be inconsistent for the Government, 1llember's party. seeing that we may have federation shortly, l\Ir. CRICK : I am the leader ! to attempt to take a fiscal referendum to­ Mr. MILLEN : Well, I ask the hon. day, surely it was equally inconsistent for member if the legislation proposed by this the leader of the Opposition to do the two Government for the restriction of alien things to which I have referred. Coming immigration is useless, what does he pro­ to the practical question, to which the han. pose to do~ member for West Macquarie is so anxious Mr. CRICK : that I should address myself-that is, the Mr. MILLEN: The leader of the Oppo­ question as to the policy which we desire sition also referred to the Public Service to see adopted in regard to federation, and Board and the income-tax. He overlooked the political hands to which we are to the fact that he was one of tho~e who trust that policy. Now, I ask the gentle- Second night. 72 Governor's Speech: [ASSE~BLY.J Address in Reply. men on your left, Mr. Speaker, whether pect support from their side. Whether they have any quarrel, first of all, with the this new combination of Mr. Lyne and policy of the Government in respect of the Mr. Barton supports or opposes this Convention Bill? Can the leader of the list of amendments, there must be a Opposition find any serious fault with the gross inconsistency on the part of either programme of amendments submitted by one or other of the two hon. gentle­ the right hon. gentleman at the head of men. If these amendments are approved the Government 1 by the Opposition, then I admit that the Mr. CRICK: He would submit anything hon. gentleman who leads the Opposition to keep himself there ! is consistent. But in that case, what be­ Mr. MILLEN: Here i11 another strange comes of ·Mr. Barton's consistency 1 On inconsistency on the part of the hon. gen­ the other hand, if it be intended by this tleman. Yesterday he told this House new coalition to oppose the amendments, that the Government had refrained from then, while Mr. Barton is consistent, where, meeting Parliament because they knew I ask, does Mr. Lyne stand 1 I take it that if they did so their party would turn that the majority of members are in sym­ them out of office. Now he tells us that pathy roughly with the policy outlined by the Government is supported by a servile the Government. Then the question comes majority ; but servile majorities do not in, whether the policy of federation can turn governments out. You cannot have safely be left in the hands of the present in one instance a servile ministry and a Ministry 1 That is the particular point servile party-the two things are incom­ upon which, I take it, the Opposition have patible. The present position is this : challenged the position of the Government. First of all, is the policy of this Govern­ Can we, or can we not, trust the canying ment one of which we can approve 1 Then of the federal cause to the present Min­ comes the second question, to which the istry 1 I propose to look into that ques­ bon. member for \Vest Macquarie is so tion, and to see whether it is not possible anxious to direct my attention, whether or to return a satisfactory anwer to it. I not the present Government i6 one in whose admit that it may be possible to urge some hands we can safely leave that policy 1 inconsistency against the course followed Mr. CRICK : by the Government. But surely it is Mr. MILLEN : There is one thing I curious to find an accusation of inconsi~­ can tell the hon. member, that I have said tency coming from a gentleman who was nothing behind the back of the Premier at one time a supporter of, and at another that I have not said to his face. vVhat­ time a denouncer of, the Braddon blot ! ever objections I have to the course of the Surely the accusation of inconsistency comes Government as to this bill, the right hon. rather queerly from a gentleman who at gentleman is aware of them. At the pre­ one time clamoured for the amendments sent moment we are in line. I do not pro­ which the Go,·ernment are now suggesting pose to be driven away from a considera­ and who now dismisses them as unneces­ tion of the question I have submitted­ sary! " Has the leader of the Opposition any Mr. LYNE : The bon. member knowing objection to the policy of the Government the whole particulars, that is a most un­ as outlined in the Governor's speech in its generous remark to make in reference to relation to the Convention Bill"? We have me. submitted to us a series of amendments each Mr. MILLEN: I do not wish to be one of which the leader of the Opposition ungenerous to the ho!l. member, and I has at various times insisted should be made only wish he had been in the Chamber a in the bill. Does he propose to find fault little earlier. with those amendments to-day 1 The oppo­ Mr. CRICK: --,-- sition to the Government in or out of the Mr. MILLEN : I am reminded by the House must either approve of or reject this hon. member for WPst Macquarie that the list of amendments. If it approves of them, Prime Minister voted for the bill. The it cannot quarrel with the Government explanation of that in my mind is to be in respect of its policy. If it disapproves found in this fact., that. the right bon. gen~ of them, and intends to oppose them, tleman being human, has erred, and that we who do approve of them cannot ex- bon. members being divine might forgive. [.iJfr. Millen. Governor's Speech: (22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 73

Mr. CRICK : I will not forgive him, Mr. CRICK : What the hon. member is divine and all as I am. Those whom the saying is unworthy of any man of intellect! gods wish to destroy they first make mad ! l\'[r. SPEAKER : I must ask the hon. Mr. MILLEN : Then we bad better get member to refrain from interrupting in the a lunatic asylum for the hon. member's way in which he is now doing.. present leader. The leader of the Opposi­ Mr. MILLEN : I apologise to you, sir, tion made this charge against the Govern­ to the House, and to myself, for having ment : that Mr. Want had rejoined them. been led into such remarks, remarks which Now, I do not wish to say anything my­ J had no intention of making. But I and self to which exception can be taken as to others were· for weeks held up to pub­ the action taken by Mr. Want. lic odium by the accusations of Mr. Bar­ 1\'Ir. CRICK : He wanted the "screw" ! ton. He said, for instance, that we were Mr. MILLEN : '!'here is one thing to opposing the bill out of regard for our be said about Mr. Want, that he did not political positions; and that being so, I hesitate to lay down the "screw" when the think it is only fair to point out tb(tt I time came for him to do so, and if it is to and others jeopardised our political posi­ be a question of fighting with the gloves tions by the course we took. When we off, let us fight with them off by all means. dig a little underneath the surface to see Compare the way in which Mr. Want left if it is not possible to £nd sordid motives the Attorney-Generalship with the way in on the part of those who make such an which the hon. member's new-found leader accusation, a yelping cry for mercy goes l~ft it. Let us remember that this inflated up from those men who know that the leader of the hon. member was drummei motives of their new found leader will not out of the public life of this country. I stand examination. have no desire to refer to matters of this Mr. CRICK: What do i care for Mr. kind; but if hon. members are going to Barton, or any one else 1 fight in the way they seem inclined to do, Mr. MILLEN: Let me say in Lhe same they will find just as many fighting men words, "What do I care for Mr. Barton, on this side of the House as on that. oranyoneelse7" I can detect nothing wrong Mr. T. FITZPATRICK : What about the and immoral in the action taken by the convention election 1 Attorney-General in rejoining the Minis­ Mr. SLEATH : ·what about the· American try. I do not think it lies with the sup­ war1 porters of this new combination between Mr. MILLEN : An hon. member asks, Mr. Barton and Mr. Lyne to condemn the "What about the convention election~" combination of the Premier with Mr. Did that prevent these gentlemen from Want. We had one of these two gentle­ digging up speeches made by the Prime men travelling the country for months de­ Minister in 18911 claring that this bill was the only safe bill Mr. CRICK: He has a clean record! for the country to accept, the only just and Mr. MILLEN: You have to remove equitable measure we were ever likely to the records of this House before you can obtain, while we had the other gentlemen whitewash your new leader. from a hundred platforms declaring that, Mr. CRICK: You will have to remove if the bill were accepted, it would be dis­ the records of this House before you can astrous, not only to New South Wales, but whitewash Jack Want ! to Australia. These two gentlemen are Mr. MILLEN: We have seen the Trea­ to-day entering into an alliance. There is sury fleeced week after week in connection but one explanation of this unholy com­ with the McSharry arbitration case. I bination. could not help wondering the other night Mr. CRICK : To get an honest leader ! why these tribunes of the people, who de­ Mr. MILLEN : Was not the leader of nounce the Government in regard to such the Opposition honest enough for the hon. little pettifogging matters, did not refer to member? When the hon. member for The more important affairs. The way in which Hume, some two months ago, announced "- thousands of pounds have been taken out his opposition to the Convention Bill, I ~ the public treasury in connection with was prepared to accept him as a leader, if tht}-l(ase to which I have referred, amounts he would accept the leadership of our to a goo_·e public scandal. party. If the hon. member was honest ' Second night. 74 Governor's Speech: [ASSEl\lBLY.] .Address in Reply. enough for me, then he ought to be honest that brought about such a strange brotherly enough for the hon. member for West alliance as that between the hon. member Macquarie. Let us look at this strange for The Barwon and Mr. Bruce Smith, to­ combination, the supporters of which whom for all time the hon. member has criticise the combination of Mr. ·want attached the epithet of "Shoot-'em-down," with the Prime Minister. We had not and who, not many years ago, the hon. long ago the spectacle of 1\'Ir. Lyne stand­ member n,sserted in this House had in­ ing upon the same platform with Mr. formed him-a statement he never with­ Want, and 1\'Ir. Lyne addressed several drew-that he was prepared to shoot down meetings under the auspices of the league, the strikers of this city like dogs? Now, of which 1\Ir. \Vant was president. we find the hon. member for The Barwon Mr. LYNE: No; I did not! prepar~d to fall into a brotherly embrace 1\Ir. EDDEN : Yes ; at the Town Hall ! and weep over Mr. Bruce Smith as one of Mr. LYNE: No! the leaders of this new-found party. If ::\ir. ED DEN: I was there and heard you! there is anything strange in an alliance on 1\Ir. YouNG: Did not the hon. member our side, surely we may look to see what speak at Newcastle 1 a strange combination of men are on the Mr. LYNE : In explanation, I desire to Opposition benches. And what for? Let say that the hon. member for Bourke is . me give the answer in a quotation from a drawing upon his imagination. I did not journal which is doing its level best to­ address a number of meetings under the foist these gentlemen on the Treasury auspices of the Anti-Federal League. I benches. I am going to give a short quo­ distinctly made the statement that I acted tation from the Age-a paper which, at entirely upon .my own responsibility in any rate, cannot be accused of any parti­ deciding when and where I should speak. ality to the present Ministry. The Age 1\Ir. MILLEN: I cannot understand said, "The temptation "-I lay particular the position of the hon. gentleman. The stress upon the word- fact remains that he was on the platform The temptation to both l\Ir. BarLon anu ~Jr. with Mr. Want; the fact remains that he Lyne to come to terms must be very great. addressed the meeting at Newtown, under \Vell, it may have bEen great, but it has the auspices of the Newtown branch of the not been long. It seems to me that they Anti-Convention Biil League. I am not disposed of it much as Adam disposed of finding fault with him for doing that; but if the temptation that confronted him. he could then associate with Mr. Want in Neither can· do much without the other. Allietl, his efforts to amend the Commonwealth they would be very formidable antagonists-- Bill, surely there is nothing wrong now in To what? To the Convention Bill~ Not the action of Mr. Want in rejoining the a bit of it, but to the Government. Ministry. Let us look a little closer into to the Government. The difficulty that stands some more of these new alliances. We had in the wr,y of their union is in harmonising their the hon. member for Fitzroy Division yes­ views on the Federal Bill. There is no other terday telling us that if it came to a choice obstacle, and that one does not appear to be between the two gentlemen, he was pre­ insuperable. pared to accept :Mr. Barton as leader in It has not been insuperable. \Vith a the federation cause rather than the pre­ rapidity which would do credit to a better­ sent Prime Minister. ·what does that cause these gentlemen have yielded to the mean~ It means that if he is going to temptation; they have struck their terms, accept him as leader, and if Mr. Barton is whatever they me,y be. And now I a~-:k not going to turn even a bigger somersault myself what can be the object of this com­ than he has already turned, then the hon. bination? Surely it is manifest that they member for Fitzroy Division, and appal'­ can have no point of union with regard to­ ently others with him, are prepared to the particular form of federation they de­ adopt that very bill, and with it ~f r. Bar­ sire. The bill which will suit Mr. Lyne ton, which they denounced the Premier for can never suit Mr. Barton; the bill which voting for. A wo1·d or two more about Mr. Barton has advocated can never suit ,. some of these skange alliances. Let me Mr. Lyne. There is, then, but one explana_;r ./ ask, if I may pass for the moment from tion of this curious coalition ; and it is .!.lm.t the sublime to the ridiculous, what it is in the great game of party politigg' they [Mr. jJ{illen. / Governor's Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] Add1·ess in Reply. 75 are prepared to sully this high cause of tion Ly assuming that he and his friends federation, and make a bridge by which were making conciliatory overtures to the they hope to pass to the Treasury benches. minority, were endeavouring to conciliate There are the Treasury benches, and they the minority and convert them into sup­ have two obstacles to overcome before they porters of federation. vV ell, I take it that f!an reach them. One obstacle is the party Mr. Barton has changed his position to a that stands here determined that there very great extent, and has moved over to­ shall be no federation which is not base'.l wards that party whose support he desired. on absolutely sound and just lines, and the Under other circumstances, when gentle­ other is the great body of electors who re­ men who, having maintained a strong and fused to accept them as their leaders by clear position up to a given point, sud­ the vote given on the 3rd instant. Now denly, and without any rhyme or reason, the questiort comes, whom are we to trust turn round and change their position, I can· with the responsibility of obtaining the not shut my eyes to the fact that, in plain amendments we desire in this bill-the language, that has always been called trim­ men who for weeks have been declar­ ming one's sails to catch the popular breeze. ing that no amendment was necessary, Let me ask these gentlemen why they should desirablE', orpossible-the men who applied now become advocates of an amEnding the term "traitors" to those who, taking bill if the statement they ha,-e been mak­ considemble risk to themselves, have made ing for the last two months is true 1 The amendment possible 1 Or ought we to statement to which I refer is that this bill trust and look to that party, and that had no Eerious defects in it., and that the Government, whose action has rendered people who accepted it could amend it as a better and more perfect measure within they desired. If that is so, if it were a just reach now? I would just as soon think and fair and perfect bill, if the people liv­ of trusting a burglar to look after my ing under it could amend it as they desired, house as I would of trusting the business is it consistent for these gentlemen now to of obtaining the amendments. I desire to raise the standard of amendment? And the hands of those men who have all along if they are now going to adopt these fought against any amendment. I must amendments to which Mr. Barton has have some proof of the bcna;fides of those pledged himself-no, I will not say pledged in whose hands I place this responsible himself, because Mr. Barton has done commi~sion. These gentlemen, who have nothing of the kind. He is talking vaguely all along done their level best to convince of amendments; he has given the country the country that amendments were not no distinct pledge as to what those amend­ necessary, that the demand for the amend­ ments are to be. Bnt let me ask bon. gen­ ments came only from those who desired tlemen, who for so many weeks, have been to kill federation, why, to trust them telling the country that there could be no would be to commit an act which would improvement on this bill, telling them tl1at qualify me for a lunatic asylum. If I were if time did develop any defects in it. there asked to sa.y one word in justification of was a pro1·ision which would enable the the position taken up by those who formed people to amend it-let me ask them r.ow themselves into that league, the efforts of ·what justification there can be for theil." which so successfully resulted in the de­ attempting to amend the bill at the pre­ struction of the Convention Bill, I would sent stage? If they attempt to do that, point to the complete somersault turned then they must at once admit that they by the distinguished gentleman at the head have been telling the people what was of the federat.ion-at-any-price party. Up either incorrect or what they knew to be to three or four days ago we were told that false. If it was false, it conveyed their this gentleman was going to force the bill own condemnation, and, if they were mis­ upon the country. taken, they at once stamp themselves as An HoN. ME~IBER: Told by whom~ men who are not safe guides for the people.· Mr. MILLEN : Told by :Mr. Barton I am going to ask the indulgence of the· himself, as I can show by a quotation from House while I read one or two extracts this morning's Herald. It is t.here sug­ from Mr. Barton. My purpose is to ~how gested that the leader of the Opposition in the first place that this gentleman has no mig:ht have interpreted Mr. Barton's posi- right to amend the Con ventionBill, and next Second night. 76 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. that we cannot expect him to make an 80,000, may be repealed, and then the address be passed. I shall certainly do my best to assist honest effort to amend it in a way that in the election of such a parliament, and with would suit the people of this country. the help of the splendid and organised force now Even if it is contended that he is prepared ad,·ocating the constitution, I have little doubt to do both those things, then by these bnt that the good work will be done. very quotations I am about to give, I There is a distinct pledge by Mr. Barton, think I can convict Mr. Barton of having after he knP.w the 80,000 votes had not performed the greatest political somer­ been obtained, and could not be obtained, sault of his time. Speaking on the night that he would assist in the creation of a of the poll-I am giving these quotations parliament which would still stand by in their proper order, and hon. members that Convention Bill. Later on, when the not devoid of the sense of humour will heat of the evening had had time to wear appreciate them -- · off, in an interview, Mr. Barton made an­ An HoN. MEj\IBER : Wh~tt is the hon. other statement.. Speaking hurriedly at a gentleman quoting from 1 meeting a man may occasionally say things Mr. MILLEN : I am quoting {rom the which he may regret in calmer moments. Sydney liforning Herald. I always prefer I speak with some knowledge of journal­ to take that paper which favours the side ism, and I say here is an interview which to which I am opposed. bears all the evidence of having been care­ Mr. Barton promised them that no effort on his fully prepared by Mr. Barton in his own part would be spared to accomplish either the study. It is reported on the 6th of this missionary workorthe work of retributive justice. month in the Sydney Morning Herald. Then a little later, when that great his­ Mr. Barton said : toric moment of placing onP-'s fingers on A second fight was inevitable from the very the pulse of a nation came, when these first, and the only cban!!e that has taken place gentlemen, who had evidently dined well, is that, instead of the next battle being fought on the question of sending men into Parliament if not wisely, came to receive the plaudits who would vote for the resolution, it will be on ·Of the assembled crowd because the ex­ the issue that the treacherous amendment rais­ cited journal had anticipated the numbers, ing the minimum of affirmative votes from Mr. Barton said : 50,000 to 80,000 may be repealed. If it is a victory you must not forget that it vVill the hon. gentlemen who applauded is not a complete one, and that there are certain just now stand by that 1 :people who will have to be punished before you can become part of a nation. Mr. CRICK : Do you know how that bill was passed 1 Did ever a great public man, standing, as Mr. 1\IILLEN : Yes, by the support of he thought he did, on the eve of winning many of the men now supporting the Con­ a great victory in a great cause, stoop to vention Bill. I was among the ten who such a degraded position as that 1 This stood in opposition to that bill, and it was great leader of a great cause said the carried principally by the men who to-day nation should not be born until his lust are prepared to do Mr. Barton's bidding. for revenge had been sati~fied. They are the traitors on whom he threat­ An RoN. MEMBER: Was not Mr. Lyne ened to slake his thirst for vengeance. to he one of the victims 1 Mr. CRICK ::---- Mr. MILLEN: I am not quite certain Mr. FEGAN : I should like to ask if the whether it is reported or not, but it is said hon. member for West Macquarie has any they absolutely called for the scalp of 1\'Tr .. righL to intenupt any speaker as he is Lyne as the first victim. doing this evening 1 Mr. CHANTER: Absolutely untrue! Mr. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member Mr. MILLEN : It is absolutely true for West Macquarie to refrain from these that Mr. Barton clamoured, like o savage interruptions. His experience ought to .as he was, for revenge upon those who in teach him how disorderly they are, and the exercise of their citizen right had op­ there is no necessity whatever for them. posed hi~ bill. Later on the same even­ Mr. CRICK : The hon. member speaking ing, after he had discovered the mistake, does not object ! Mr. Barton said : Mr. SPEAKER : That is no excuse. An A federal parliament must still be secured, so that the treacherous amendment raising the hon. member under our standing order has minimum of affirmative votes from 50,000 to a right to be heard without interruptirJn. . []I{r. lifillen. Governor's Speech: (22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 77 Mr. CRICK : I admit that inte1:jections, bended knees, that they will give him a as a rule, are disorderly ; but in this case chance to frame another bill. He then the hon. grntleman addressing the Chair went on to say : does not object to these interruptions, and The electors who voted for the bill, and the it may be convenient to ask for informa­ splendid band of workers associated with me, will see to it that their decision is respected and tion while a member is speaking. carried into effect. Mr. MILLEN: The only objection I What form my personal exertions will take it have to the interjections is that they are is not necessary to state at this juncture ; but I shall certainly make theni without fail and with­ placing the hon. member and his party in out cessation until the victory of Friday is re­ such a peculiar position. I have person­ flected in the enactment of the Australian con­ ally no objection, because I think I may stitution, because I am bound, in loyalty to the venture to say that they enable me to demands of the majority of the electors, to see score. Now, l propose to continue this that such a constitution is enacted. quotation: Now, before I make any further comments As I said before, the persistent objection taken upon this aspect of the case, I want to to the bill was that it did not provide for majority follow it up with one or two other quota­ rule. It is now evident that notwithstanding tions from this marvellous quartette who the ingenuit-y with which that objection was have sprung into the first place in the re­ pressed the electors overruled it. But with that gard of a number of people in this country. objection overruled the question of majority rule is, nevertheless, the chief factor in the present Mr. Wise comes on the scene and says : situation. A majority of 71J per cent. on the He would not contest any seat against a pro· votes polled bas decided that this bill, and not tectionist candidate if he promised to vote for a some other bill, is acceptable to the people of reduction of the 80,000 vote. -He agreed with New South Wales. In addition to that, the the remarks of Mr. Bart'Jn as to the duty that vote in favour of the bill has reached nearly 88 lay upon them to deal with traitors. per cent. of the cruel condition imposed by that breach of political faith which sought to enable Here is another gentleman who is thirst­ one of the parties to a political compact to alter ing for vengeance. It might be well for the agreement after it had been largely acted those people who are clamouring for a · upon. Again, the vote secured is more than 40 gallows to remember a gentleman whose per cent. over the statutory 50,000 which formed the original agreement entered into with the unfortunate history is written in the Bible, other colonies. Is it not something to feel proud and who erected a gallows 50 cubits high. of that these results have been obtained in the They had better take care they are not face of such cruel conditions? Nearly 73,000 the first to adorn it. elPctors of New South \Vales will be disfran­ Mr. CRICK: Why does the hon. member chised if that gross breach of faith is to be re­ garded as the final-and just pronunciamento of look at me 1 New South \Vales. I am confident that the Mr. MILLEN: In the hope that the majority which voted for the bill will be sup­ hon. member may make his escape in ported by the common-sense of the whole com­ time. Mr. ""\\Tise went on to say: munity in saying that the principle of majority rule is to remain inviolate. They mi.1st put into Parliament men who would undo the treacherous act that was com­ In the same interview he· said: mitted when the 50,000 vote was raised to To sum up, it is futile to expect the premiers 80,000. of the other colonies, who are merely the mouth­ Later on Mr. Wise suddenly discovered pieces of their people, to turn a deaf ear to their that the fact that they did not reach the cry for union. On the other hand, it is reason­ able to expect that all the people of New South 80,000 was a blessing in disguise. He \>Vales who have decided, hy a very large ma­ went on to say : jority, to adopt this bill, will adhere to that E\·ery candidate· at the next election must decision, and will compel their public men to declare himself either in favour of majority rule respect that decision. or against it. If he is in favour of majority rule he must vote for the repeal of the Amending What was that decision, except, according Enabling Act, by which the will of the majority to Mr. Barton, that that bill, and not some has been set aside. other bill, was the bill they wanted 1 He I will give one other quotation, and it is went on to say: from :Mr. O'Connor, and it is to the same If I am right--and who can deny it--then effect. This appears in an interview, also what is the use of talking of other com·entions and other bills. published in the Sydney Mortting Herald: The people of New South W:Lles have accepted Now, we have this gentleman prepared to the constitution hy a significant majority, appeal to the country, praying upon his though the expression of their will has been Second night. \ 78 Governor's Speech : (ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply. made abortive by the operation of the 80,000 Mr. MILLEN: The hon. member has act. This great majority of the people of New been in that position so frequently this South \Vales will not be baulked in their deter· mination by this legislative cobweb. . . afternoon that I do not think he should. That [the new] Parliament will now be charged object to it. I regret the fact if I am out with the additional duty of repealing the 80,000 of order. act, :md of wiping off the statute-book that dis­ M:r. CRICK : I recognise the fact that grace upon our national honor, and thus giving effect to the will of over 70,000 of the people of the hon. member has to speak to the New South \Vales. electors of Bourke ! Mr. MILLEN: The hon. member's Now there is one other witness that I new found leader will find that the people propose to put in the witness-box, with of Bot;rke have to speak to him. One every confidence that the statements which other quotation, and I have finished : that witness will make will be received by No talk such as has been mooted in some this House with the respect which their quarters of throwing the Commonwealth Bill importance warrants. It is a quotation aside and replacing it by another one would from· the Sydney Jl1orning Herald, which serve the purpose. This would be viewed only appeared on 4th June. The purpose of as another attempt to bury federation for a term this quotation is merely to demonstrate of years. that the advocates of this bill have them­ I could gi\·e hon. gentlemen further instal­ selves barred the road to anv amendment ments of quotations of that kind, but I do so far as they are concerned.· The Sydney not desire to do so. I have given enough Mo1·ning Herald said : to show that the supporters of this bill, up to a stage quite recently, up to the date of :1\fr. Barton came before them (the electors) yesterday with the bill in his hands, and by a this combination between the Opposition, great and majority vote they have accepted ·it represented by the hon. member for The op. his counsel and recommendation. This vote Hume, and that portion represented by :Hr. means that they have accepted not only federa­ Barton, entered an emphatic protest against tion, but the Commonwealth Bill. Up to yester­ any interference with the Convention Bill. day the field was clear. The sentiment of the Now, these are the YP.ry gentlemen \vho country had declared itself in favour of federation it is true, but the people had not yet formally come round and say Lhat they, and they given in their adhesion to any particular form or alone, must be entrusted with the duty of compact. Up to yesterday the Commonwealth amending the bill. Why, their own argu­ Bill was on its trial; to-day it stands indorsed ment that this bill has been approv·ed of by a majority vote of the people. by a majority debars them from attempt­ Two days later the following appeared in ing to interfere with it. Are they the thP. same paper:- people who are going to flout the will of Here is the solid fact of the majority of 5,000 the majority, to which their head appealed votes for the bill, not for some other bill to be so triumphantly 7 If there is one other framed by the anti-federalists, but for the bill reason wanted why they, at least, cannot of the convention. . . . The question will, indeed, not be whether the bill is to be ac­ touch this bill, it is to be found in that cepted, but the closely consequent one whether extraordinary, and almost blasphemous, the acceptance already pronounced is to recei \"e utterance of Mr. Barton in the Town Hall effect. The people who have to give the answer whenaddressing5,000of his fellow-citizens, will also have to supply the means of making their decision prPvail, and the result may be he declared that the Almighty had stamped awaited with confidence. that bill with his appro val. How clare ::\Ir. Barton come down now and attempt to The first opportunity allowed to the people of alter the bill on which the Almighty has dealing with this matter is at the coming elec­ placed hi!Jtapproval ! · tions. They will then be able to deal at once Mr. W. H. B. PIDDINGTON : with the immoral conspiracy and with the con­ spirators. And no plainer dutywill then devolve Mr. MILLEN : The hon. member for upon the majority of the electors whom this mea­ U ralla-\Valcha says that it is not true sure was intended to disfranchise than to insist that ?\Ir. Barton made that remark, but that it shall be no longer permitted to remain my authority is the Sydney Momin,g l~er;tld. as a dishonor upon the pages of the statute-book of New South 'iYales. Mr. W. H. B. PIDDINGTON : It 1s not true in the way the hon. member puts it ! l\Ir. CRICK: I suppose the hon. member l\lr. l\IILLEN : The statement made is aware that he is out of ordet· in reading was: all this rubbish! God means to give us this federation. · [Mr. Millen. / I Governor's Speech : [22 JuNE, 1898.] .Adcb·ess in Reply. 79

What right has Mr. Barton, and the hon. time the other colonies naturally resent member for U ralla-W alcha, to intervene overtures from the present Ministry. ·why between that bill and God Almighty 1 should they concede anything, why shoulJ Either that statement made in the Town they agree to the alteration of a single dot Hall was a piece of sanctimonious humbug, or comma in the bill, so long as they have or these gentlemen simply know to-day nfr. Barton and his 70,000 electors pledged that they are doing what is wrong. I have to fight for them~ At the present moment endeavoured to show that those gentlemen they have a double chance. They have have so pledged themselv-es to support that the chance-a remote one, I think-that bill, they have so resisted all demands to Mr. Barton may succeed at the next elec­ obtain an amendment of it., that it is hardly tion, and, coming back here, will fight for to be expected that they will fight to ob- · the bill, not in the interests of New So nth tain these amendments for us. If we should \Vales, but in the interests of the other intrust them with the task their object colonies. If this chance fails, if Mr. Bar­ will be, not to get as many of the amend­ ton and his party are beaten, then they ments as we desire, but as few as possible, can turn round and open negotiations with in order that they may be able to come the present· Ministry. To expect that back and say, ''There you are, we told you they will enter into negotiations now, the other colonies would not concede very when Mr. Barton has practically, by his much, this is all we can get for you " Now, attitude and utterances, told them to stand an evidence of the attitude they take up is firm, that he. will fight for their interests to be seen in the fact that the leader of the under that bill, is to expect from them Opposition when on the platform had a something wp.ich, so long as human nature whole list of. amendments which he wished remains as it iO<, we know to be an impcs­ to make in the bill; but now he limits his sibility. Ten days ago, Dr. Quick, speak­ demands to two. ing at Echuca, said : Mr. LYNE : I limited myself to two all They should not encourage Mr. Reid's design the time that I spoke in opposition to the to tamper with the constitution. His advice t(} bill. I only mentioned two which I con­ the people was to stand by the hill. Their hope was in Mr. Bn,rton and his plan of campn,ign in sidered vital ! the coming election. l'tir. MILLEN : I would remind the It almost seemsto me that the hope of a hon. member that at his meeting in the good many people in this colony is in Mr. Masonic Hall he laid stress upon the diffi­ Barton and his plan of campaign. culty of amending this constitution. He said it was a cast-iron constitution. Now, He deprecated concessions to Mr. Reid -- does the hon. gentleman mean to tell me Listen to these federalists now. The gen­ that he does not now, or that he did not tlemen who are animated by the true then, ad vocate an amendment in the bill federal spirit, .who desire to see the nnion with respect to the 127th clause 1 of the Australian colonies, approach the Mr. LYNE : Certainly, I did; but I did question in this way. not make that a vital matter to fight upon! He deprecated concessions to Mr. Reid. Mr. MILLEN : Was it only put in, This big question is absolutely to be lost then, as a show 7 now in a wretched personal squabble. Mr. ORICK : Yes ; like all•that is going Mr. Peacock, the Chief Secretary, said: on here now ! It would be wise to wait till Mr. Barton and :!\Ir. MILLEN : There is one other his associates had spoken before expressing any reason why all attempts at negotiation at opinion on the matter. the present time are useless, while any hope \Vhy, sir, they all seem to turn towards of negotiation on behalf of this colony by Mr. Barton as surely as the needle turns Mr. Barton and his friends must certainly to the pole. To show that the faith which fail ; it is to be found in the expressions the other colonies possess in Jl,tJ:r. Barton of public men of the other colonies. How and his friends is not without warrant­ can we expect representative men of the to show that there is a reciprocity going other colonies to concede any amendment on between them, let me quote from Mr. to New South Wales to.day so long as \Vise: they have Mr. Barton and his friends pre­ The people should take care that they send into P"'- ·ed to fight for them 1 At the present Parliament men who will not allow the votes of Second night. 80 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Add1·ess in Reply.

your majorities-that is to say, majorities in must give that to the other colonies. New Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, and New South \Vales never occupied such a de­ South \Vales-to be thwarted at the dictation of Mr. Reid's minority. grading position as she has done during the last twelve months. It is time that So you have all on one side of the Murray there was a party formed here who were telling the people that their hope is in Mr. not afraid to Ray openly and fearlessly Barton,_ and you have Mr. Wise calling on what New South Wales wants, and what the electors of New South Wales to send she intends to have. There is no party in men-to do what 1 To indorse the which desires anything unfair to the other majority. vote of the other colonies. colonies. We can federate without that; but Mr. CRICK : And of this colony ! it is time that there was formed a party, fear­ Mr. MILLEN:· The hon. member is not less, and determined to insist that there game to stand and fight for the vote given shall be no federation which is not shaped on the 3rd June here. with a due regard, not only to the material Mr. CRICK: interests of New South ·wales, but to those MILLEN : Mr. Simon Fraser, Mr. political principles to which her people are speaking on the same point, said : attached. A good deal depends on the public men of New South \Vales. In my opinion, the best [M1·. S!Jeaker left the chair at c·s p.m. The course to take is to force the cause inNew South Hou.se resumed at 7•5 p.m.] \Vales. If some of the good speakers and well Mr. CRICK (West Macquarie) [7·5]: known men in New South \Vales would take the Before addressing myself to the main ques­ field at the next general election, it would help considerably. tion I would like to say a word in refer­ ence to the preliminary remark of the hon. Only yesterday distinguished members of membec for Bourke. I really do not know. the Opposition, in interviews with the what his reference to some twopenny-half­ press, made some remarks. The hon. penny land question had to do with the member for Grafton said : material question before this House and \Ve must intrust the movement to a man like Mr. Barton, who enjoys the full confidence of the country. I suppose, and I regret he the premiers and people of the other colonies. is not here at this moment, they were All with their eyes on the other colonies. made-as it may be fairly charged against The hon. member for Ballina said : all of us, that our speeches will be made­ with the view of talking to the country ; They are quite prepared to leave the matter in the hands of Mr. Barton, as they know that but, nevertheless, there are men in this he is sincere, and is respected and trusted by the House who hold a position in which their people of the other colonies. remarks might well be confined to the I£ there is one thing which has broken main question before the House and the down my faith in human nature it is that country. There can be no doubt that the cruel utterance of the hon. member for one question, and the one question only Ball ina. before the electorates in the forthcoming Mr. PERRY: Has the hon. member any issue will be the ques~ion of federation, faith in the Ile1·ald I and quite right too. The referendum vote Mr. MILLEN: Well, that is from the was not a proper one ; there was nothing Herald. Here is the position which :)On· sincere or honest in that from the start, fronts us: On the one hand, we have a and I am going to state to-night what a body of gentlemen who all along have majority of hon. members know to be the fought against the amendment of the bill, absolute truth in regard to that amending who have told us that amendments are not bilL I£ I am disbelieved, if I am taunted desirable and are not obtainable, who from with telling an untruth I will simply bring the beginning to the end have insisted that to this table my personal word and leave the wants and the demands of the other it at that. I will not repeat lobby talk. colonies should always stand paramount. I will not give the names of hon. members It is to my mind time that some party was who spoke to me about the matter. Those formed here, and that some public man of hon. gentlemen know best in their heart standing came forward and said, "Now, of hearts whether what I say is true. I this is what New South Wales wants." will simply bring to this table my personal Hitherto we have had it dinned into our word and leave it to those who kno'W me, ears that we must concede this, or that we either to credit me or to dism-edit [Mr. Millen. Governor's Speech: [22 JUNE1 1898.] .Address in Reply. 81

When I say I will bring my personal word his virtue. I think the most touching I mean that I am not going to repeat spectacle of the whole campaign was John lobby talk. I may refer if I am chal­ Henry Want, clad in virtue. If he had lenged to events which cannot now be nothing but his virtue to conceal his naked­ altered. I might be able to so arrange ness from the public, I am afraid that the matters that the future might pan out in first policeman would have to arrest him accord with my wishes. I cannot rearrange for indecency. I say, without the slightest the past. The amendment which is moved hesitation, that his sham resignation and by the leader of the Opposition is simply return was part of a vile plan between him that we cannot trust this Reid-Want com­ and the Premier, not only to hood wink the bination with the handling of federa­ other colonies, and to disgrace this colony, tion, and no man in this House can hon· but to save their wretched offices. At the estly think that he can trust either of very start every one knew that the resig­ them with it. Want has always been an nation was a sham, and that the Attorney­ opponent of federation. Any gentleman General would go back. The position who read the Herald this morning-- taken up by the Premier showed that it l\fr. GRIFFITH : So is Crick ! was a sham. Down in Milton, or at some ?11:r. CRICK : Will the hon. member place like that, where, aping the peculi­ let Crick talk for himself. I do not want arities of a better man, the Premier fol­ Balaam's ass to bleat. lowed in the f.ootsteps of the late Sir Mr. AsHTON : Balaam's ass never did Henry Parkes by choosing a far away spot bleat! for his great pronunciamento, he prepared Mr. CRICK : He ought to have done. the way for a recantation of the vote Mr. AsHTON : which he says he gave, and spoke about 1\Ir. CRICK : I do not want to cross the magnificent virtues of John Henry swords with my hon. friend. As I said Want, the man who is clothedin virtue, there are members in this House and mem­ but who would not go into the witness-box bers. I quite respect the words of my before me to show what his Yirtues con­ hon. friend. I equally weigh the words sisted of. The other night I told a meet­ of the hon. member for Bourke, but what ing of 3,000 people that this man would right have these buzzing mosquitos to make be in g:tol if he had his due. I say the themselves heard except after the lights same thing now, and I claim no privilege. are put out 1 If he does not like it, let him issue a writ Mr. ·w. M. HuGHES : The hon. member and bring me before a jury of twel_ve men; has a fine discrimination! then we will see if he is clothed in virtue. 1\ir. CRICK : Our amendment is that However, I do not want to waste more we cannot trust the Government in the time upon him. I am simply showing matter· of federation. The question is not what wrt of a man the Premier's valuable whether I supported or opposed federa­ colleague is. Now to come to the Premier. tion. I will make my position quite clear Down at Milton he spoke of the magnifi­ before I have done. Cannot any hon. cent magnanimity of this marvellous gen­ member recognise the difference between tleman, the Attorney-General, for the the position of a man who is opposed to a reception of whom into the fold again he certain thing, and who honestly says that was paving the way. Then they had a he is opposed to it, and the position of a smoke concert. Having imitated the fail­ man who, being opposed to it, says, "I am ings of the late Sir Henry Parkes, in in favour of it," and uses means to bring going away to a 'small place to say some­ about its defeat 7 Although the Attorney· thing of very little importance, the Pre­ General says that it is a wicked lie to say mier came back to Sydney, and at a smoke that he is against federation, if any hon: concert., where this gentleman, clad in member will read his utterances, not of virtue, was in the chair, and laid all his nine years ago, but made within the last successes at the feet of George Houstoun twelve months, and collated in the Sydney Reid, admitting his great superiority, to Morning Herald this morning, he will see pave the way to get back to place and how much that Yirtuous gentleman is to pay-at this smoke concert the Premier, be believed. Last time he went out of who declaimed last night so loudly that he office he told us that he was clad only in had become the victorious leader of the Second night. 82 Go'l)ern01·'s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Addr·ess in Reply. liberal army, aping theworst faults of the my meed of disgrace because of what was departed great-because he can only imi­ done, though it was done at the instiga­ tate the late Sir Henry Parkes in small tion of the man who pretended to lead things-:-spoke about his poverty. "Never" the federal movement. He pledged his he said to the men who '" ent there to word to the premiers of the other colonies smoke-I do not know if there was any­ to do certain things, and then used certain thing to drink-" Never before did I want methods to stab the movement to the your unbought and unbribed votes more heart. I am going to show that while he than now. I was never poorer than I am made it a basis of the agreement with the now." How like the departed veteran, who other colonies that a 50,000 majority vote used to speak about having one foot in the should carry the Convention Bill in this gmve ! This valiant leader of the liberal colony, he fomented and instigated a move­ army cringed and cried about his poverty ment for the bringing in of an amending to the people gathered at a smoke concert. bill raising the majority to 80,000. What have we to do with his poverty or The Right Hon. G. H. REID: That is his wealth 1 The question is : can we, and absolutely false ! can the country trust him to deal with the Mr. CRICK : As I have said before, I great issue to be brought forward 1 That bring to this table only my personal word. we cannot trust him is more than evidenced I am not going to repeat lobby talk. I am by this fact : Never in the history of our not going to refer to members who spoke gov-ernment did a prime minister bring to me about this matter, though I see upon this colony the insult that he has some of them sitting round the Chamber. deservedly brought upon us. He is our An HoN. lYfEMBER : figurehead. As such we have recognised Mr. CRICK : Do not say, sir, that it is him by means of our parliamentary insti­ imagination. I shall prove it, not only tutions for about four years. Yet he so by my personal word, but by something tricked the parliaments and the premiers which I cannot alter, the Hansard record. d the other colonies that when, after the An HoN. MEliiBER : Well, ·prove it ! federal vote on the 3rd of this month, Mr. CRICK : I do not want the hon. he tried to bring about a conference of member to ask me to prove it. I did not premiers, the premier of the leading colony, stand up to be catechised by him, and who is the only one who condescended again I say, I have no time to waste on to correspond with him, said that they political bugs or mosquitos. That bill was would not trust him. The right bon. instigated by the Right Hon. George Reid, Sir George Turner told him, in other and it was carried through the House at words, that he was a cheat and a trickster, the instigation of the Right Hon. George that whatever was done, the other colo­ Reid. nies would not mo•e until-what 1 Not Mr. ANDERSON : And the hon. mo:>mber until the pledged word of the Premier of voted for it ! this colony was given, but until the people Mr. ORICK: For Heaven's sake let the of this colony had by their votes done bon. member talk to ourang-outangs ! Do what be promised they would do. A nice not let him waste his time upon me. insult to be cast upon 1,250,000 people, Mr. ANDERSON : I see a very good r~pre­ .and the price of thatinsult is the keeping sentation of an ourang-outang standing of the Premier in office. I have sat in there! this House three years without having Mr. CRICK : That may be ; but there had occasion to utter bitter words against may be in this House men who, without the Premier; but the time has now come the appearance of an ourang-outang, may when silence would be criminal. I am not have more brains than an ourang­ bound to admit that in exposing, as I shall outang. Let the bon. member attend to do, what occurred lately, I must take my his cabbages and Chinese. There are two QWn meed of shame; but I have this ex­ men in this House who if they like can cuse, that there was a certain thing which bear me out in what I am about to say. I wanted to kill, and on the old cry of any If they do not care to speak I will not stick to beat a dog I took a certain course. drag in lobby talk or their names. I will I admit that it 'vas unworthy of a public stand here with my personal word for man to do such a thing, and I must take whatever it is worth. The bill to which [Mr. Crick. Governor s Speech : (22 JUNE, 1898.] Add1·ess in Reply. 83

I refer was introduced by 1\h·. Robert would thoroughly sound our side to see Henry Levien after the Adelaide Conven­ how things stood. I said, " If the Pre­ tion. Who would have supposed that our mkr with the Government says that the old facetious friend, Mr. Henry Levien, bill must be defeated, they can defeat any­ would think of bringing in a bill to amend thing in this House." The exact words I anything? Why then was he suddenly used, I think, were these : " So help me moved to bring in a bill to amend any­ God, if a bill were brought in to declare that thing dealing with federation 1 Why did George Reid was a thin man, I believe this he do it 1 And if he was su much moved House would pass it." The hon. member about the :Federation Bill and the 50,000 said, "It is all right with the Government; minimum, why was he not here to move they will vote against it; but "-and he. the second reading of his bill? The fact snapped his fingers. Exactly as he told me remains that he was not here; and when so it turned out. I appeal to bon. members he moved the third reading he was so much here, whether, if the Government had de­ interested in the question that he merely termined to defeat that bill they could not said : "Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill have done so if they had stated as a govern­ be read the third time." vVho made the ment, "We have pledged the honor of this big speeches on the second and third read­ colony, and whatever we may do here in ings of the bill? The Right Ron. G. H. our party politics when it is a question of Reid. retaining our seats upon thEse benches or Mr. J. C. WATSON: And the hon. mem­ otherwise, still when it comes to a matter ber for Phillip Division too ! of a nation's name you can no more touch Mr. CRICK: The bon. member himself it without irredeemably ruining it than spoke for an hour and a-half. The gentle­ you can touch a butterfly's wing without man who moved tbe second reading was a injuring it." Matters would have been gentleman who we all regret to know is different. Whatever the Government at the present time suffering from severe might do as between party politicians to ill health. I refer to the bon. member for retain the benches they love so well and Paddington. Now, if that gentleman stated want so much, when it came to a matter in this House, and in the presence of the of dealing with the other colonies they Right Ron. G. H. Reid that the Right should have shown a different face, and Hon. G. H. Reid suggested the 80,000 said, "This is a question of a nation's minimum, the exact number that was credit; there can be no backsliding. Hav­ passed, and if the Right Hon. G. H. Reid ing as a government staked the nation's did not deny it, sitting there at the time, credit in our compact with the other colo­ am I not right in saying that this bill had nies, we must stand or fall by that com­ his support 'I The bon. member may laugh; pact." But what did they do 1 I have but I will make him laugh on the other seen them pass the most iniquitous and side of his face directly. improper measures simply by saying that The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I have they were Government measures. I have been looking the matter up since the hon. seen them put through whatever measure member referred to it before the tea hour, they liked ; and if the Reid Government., and I will make him laugh on the other when this 80,000 minimum bill was going side of his face ! through, had said, " We decline as &, Mr. CRICK : Without mentioning government to sully New South Wales' names, I will state what occurred. A cer­ reputation, and sooner than do that we tain hon. member of this House came to will vacate these benches ; we claim to me and asked me if I would be prepared be supported in the contract we have to support a bill to increase the minimum made," the bill would have been defeated. from 50,000 to 100,000. I said, "I will There can be no doubt whatever about it. do anything at all to stay the progress of Let hon. members honestly and fairly this bill. I cannot see where the advan­ answer that question. You can either tage to this colony can come in from such believe or disbelieve me. You all know a bill. More than that, it has been made that I am stating the truth. You all know a politician's matter." Another gentleman the dirty trickery by which the bill was who is sitting in this Chamber now came put through. \Vhether bon. members are to me later on, speaking to me to see if I against federation or for it they must be Second nigftt. 84 Governor's Speech: lASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. filled with shame and indignation at the act, whilst he was at that very time an thought of the slight put upon this colony accredited representative of this colony to by its own Parliament. bring about federation, he instigated and Mr. J. C. WATSON : Did not the bon. brought about the passing of the bill pro­ member vote for the bill? viding for the minimum of 80,000 votes, Mr. CRICK: I am not endeavouring to which he knew would kill federation in escape from the amount of dirt I have to New South \Vales. As I have already eat-I quite admit that; but I am going stated, the bill was introduced by the hon. to show that if there is any extenuation member for Quirindi. It was a marvel to or palliation to be entertained at all, I, us all why that hon. member displayed at any rate, could claim that extenuation any great interest in the question c£ federa­ or palliation, because I was always, at the tion. But whatever his interest was he very best, a halting federationist. I am was not here on the night when the second not going to quote what I am saying now, reading was moved, and the hon. member or what I may say next week, but I will for Paddington, who is now unfortunately quote what I said at the time when I ill, unrlertook the duty for him. This is charged the Government with pedidy to what the hon. member for Paddington, the other colonies. I bring only my own according to page 3769 of Hansard, said : personal word to this table. I have been I know that the author of the bill is not tied here eight or nine years, and I see many to it either, and, therefore, I am not giving away members here who have been here during the hon. member for Quirindi in the least, when I say that in Committee I am prepared to accept the whole of that time. They cn,n judge a reduction to 100,000 votes. of the value of my statement. It will rest The original bill provided for an absolute with them to say whether they know me majority. Of com·se that was a part of the as a man who comes here to state untruths game, so that a proper amendment could or whether they believe what I am now be made later on. \Ve will go a little saying. In addition to my statement I further and see what the Premier had to will state what I said at the time. I will say. According to page 3770 of lfansanl not go into lobby talk, because I do not he said: think that is a proper thing to do. If Of C()ttr3e, to those who are opposed to federa­ members cannot talk outside without hav­ tion, it is a matter about which they wish no ing their names brought forward in this discussion; but some of us are committed, an

80,000. In the course of the debate the That was during the second reading debate hon. member for Hay interjected : on the bill. Upon my word I could not be­ What is the majority prescribed in the Vic· lieve that the Premier was lending himself torian act? to this gross thing which was being done. I The Premier replied : quite admit that I felt ashamed of myself It is a simple majority in Victoria, and it is at the time. Hon. members may laugh, . a simple majority in South Australia. I do not and they can laugh later on if they like. object to an alteration of a reasonable character. Hon. members know that from the begin­ If he had been honest, if he had appre­ ning I have always been in favour of stay­ hended the responsibilities of his high posi­ ing and stopping this mad rush of federa- · tion, he would have objected to any breach tion. I was one of the few who originally of contract with the other colonies. They voted against it, and on this particular met him as honorable men. They thought night I could hardly believe, knowing him he was an honorable man. They thought even as I do as a political trickster, that when he, with his large majority in Par­ he could lend himself to what was going liament-! am not going to use the word on. I will prove by further quotations "servile," or language of that character the justice and truth by what I am now -passed his word into an act of Parlia­ saying. Later on the Right Hon. George­ ment, it would be binding. They trusted Reid said (page 3772) : him, they trusted the Parliament ; they I know that there is a strong feeling in the have been de~ei ved by both. I am under­ House that the 50,000 is too small. Well, I am taking now to prove from his own lips prepared to yield to that to the extent of making it the number I mentioned before-75,000 affirm­ that this bill was his bill. I prove it first ative votes. of all, as I have all'eady stated, by this These are G. H. Reid's words after he had fact, that if he had stood forward and had passed the enabling act, whereby he made­ said, "This Government has pledged the the number 50,000, after he had entered faith of this nalion with the other colonies, into a compact with the other colonies. I and we decline to allow it to be disgraced, am going to show that this 80,000 mini­ or the Government to be dishonored by re­ mum was the exact number suggested by tracting from that pledge," this bill could the right hon. gentleman himself. Furthei" never have been passed. Those members on the right hon. gentleman said : who voted to carry the bill were men who Putting that aside, I appeal to my han. friends' never dared to vote against the Govern­ to meet me to this extent-75,000 or 80,000 ment. I say that several of them-and I votes. bring my own personal knowledge to bear Now, these are the right hon. member's in connection with this matter-voted for own words. On the same page an hon. the 80,000 minimum under a compact and member says, "Make it 80,000." The understanding with the right hon. gentle­ Right Hon. George Reid then says, "Well, man. Later on-and observe the date, it I will take 80,000." As I said before, I was after the Premier was the Right Hon. brought to this table only my own per­ George Reid, after the Adelaide Conven­ sonal word, I did not drag in the names tion, after he had been to England-he said, of other hon. members ; but I have here, in reply to an intez:jection by myself to the in cold type, the confirmation of what I effect that 76,000 was too low, "50,000 is have stated, so that even the right hon. too low." 50,000 is the number in the bill gentleman himself cannot wriggle away. which the Premier himself had passed, and from it. Here are "his own words," Make under which he had made his compact with it 80,000." If there was a compact made the other colonies, and yet he says that by an honorable man with other honor­ 50,000 is too low. Later on, the hon. ·mem­ able men that a 50,000 minimum was to ber for The Barwon, by an interjection, be the basis of agreement, why did the reminded the Premier of what he was right hon. gentleman suggest 80,000 1 doing in view of his compact with the other There it is, in cold type. He told me he colonies. The Premier replied : had been looking it up. I hope he has; I hope the han. gentleman will not interrupt but, in case he has had not enough time to me, because I know what it means. This is look the whole thing up, I will give a few really a matter of some seriousness to me-l re­ present this country and. this Parliament in a other of his utterances, in order that he peculiar sense. may be able, later on, if he can, to show G Second nigl~t. 86 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply

that I have come to this table, and with­ keenly that his action is driving me out of out rhyme or reason, have invented a politics. I could not sit in the House ai'd diabolical untruth; because I admit that, support him on the question of federation. if what I state is not true, I ought to Ron. members sitting below the gangway be shunned by all honest men. I ought -again I will not mention names-know to be, if I_ have come to this table, and that I would not go and utter a single done this for no purpose, because I can speech for or against the bill during the have no purpose - those benches oppo­ campaigi1. I was approached on the sub­ site offer no attraction to me whatever. ject, not once, but a dozen times, and -Whatever may be the result of this mo­ asked to go and speak against the bill. I tion, whatever the whirligig of Australian wanted to speak against it., bnt I declined politics may bring about, those benches to associate myself in a certain way and to have no attraction for me. There is no allow people to say, "\Veil, this man is position on those benches, unworthy as I fighting hand-in-hand with another who may be, that I would accept; and if I had tried to do a certain thing." Certain hon. come to this table and invented these members here know that what I am say­ things, then I admit that I ought to be ing is the truth. On page 3i7 5, the right shunned by all honest men. No decent hon. gentleman says-and this was when man ought to speak to me, and I ought to a member of the Opposition, Mr. Rose, be hounded down every time I stand up was driving it home to him again: in this Chamber. But I claim that I am I should like to make my position clear. I speaking what hon. members know to be entirely agree with the hon. gentleman that this the absolute truth-that whilst the Go­ is varying a contract upon which we have in­ vited the other colonies to act. Under the cir­ vernment in body voted against the bill, cumstances I intend to vote against the second in mind it was instigated by them. The reading of the bill ; but if the bill is carried by Government could have defeated the bill a majority I shall take that as a clear indication at any stage. But I am going to show by the House that they take a different view from mine, and that they wish to alter those how this right hon. gentleman, by cour­ numbers. If the alteration of numbers is tesy, carried out his compact with hon. such that I consider it within the limits of members, yet the hon. member for Bourke reason, I will not look upon that as a serious in­ did not make any mistake. I am not de­ fraction of the position of the Government in tracting from the position I have taken up connection with this matter. all along. I am against the Convention The Right Hon. G. H. REID : \Vould Bill. I would sooner retire from politics the hon. member mind reading the next than support it; and I say that if it comes sentence 1 to this : that I must either support the Mr. ORICK: bill or risk the leadership of Mr. Reid and But if a number is fixed, which I consider is altogether unreasonable, I admit that I must 1\fr. \Vant, then I am driven into that take the matter into very serious consideration corner that I cannot remain in politics at in view of the obligations which I think I am all, and after nine years here, I must leave under to the other colonies. politics a victim of cit·cumstances, because The hon. and learned member Hsked me to these gentlemen have come into my politi­ read that sentence. How does it assist cal paddock. I have always been against him 1 The point is, that he made a com­ the bill, I am against it now, and I decline pact as the head of the Government ; he at any time to give a vote to make the bill put that compact into statute law through the law of this colony; but I decline also this House. to be made a tool of and to follow a dis­ honest man. When I say "dishonest," I Mr. AsHTON: It was put in by amend­ refer to the Premier as being politicallydis­ ment; it is only fair to say that. It was 'honest and a trickster. I could say nothing not in the bill as introduced. against the hon. gentleman in any other Mr. ORICK : Who moved the third respect. It is not without considerable reading of the bill ~ pain that I say what I am saying to-night. Mr. AsHTON : I am talking about the For three years I have sat in this House original act ! whilst he has been Premier, and we have Mr. ORICK : Who moved the third been good friends. But I can no longer reading of the bill, who originated the bill, tolerate what has been done, and I feel who sent it to the Upper House, who [Mr. Orick. Go1~ernor's Speeclb: [22 Jnm, 1898.] Address in Reply. 87 moved the second reading of it there? 80,000; and I only wish that some of my l\ir. John Henry Want. Who sent it to indiscreet friends had kept their mouths the Governor for his signature? Is the shut, and not let the Premier know what bon. member for Hay going to insult his I was going to give him to-night. own intelligence by this sort of interrup­ ';rhe Right Hon. G. H. REID: I did not tion? It is unworthy of the hon. member. know! \Yhat is the good of saying "the original 1\fr. ORICK : How is it that the hon. bill" 7 \Vho was responsible for the bill ? gentleman has been looking up these Could not the Government haYe dropped speeches-who told him 1 it at any time, just as they dropped the The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Because Local Government Bill 7 The hon. member the hon. member before the adjournment is not going to argue the matter seriously. made the accusation that the bill was a l\fr. A5IITON : And I am surprised that Government measure ! the hon. mAmber should argue that question Mr. ORICK : So it was, and I say so seriously! now. Mr. ORICK: I am not doing so. The The Right Hon. G. H. REID : And I hon. member made the interjection, and said something else very plainly ! it is one which should not have come from Mr. ORICK : Say it again. him. On page 3778, Mr. Lyne is reported An HoN. ME~IBER : ---- to have said: The Right Hon. G. H. REID : An hon. If the amendment is fixed at 80,000, which is member says that I cannot reply; but I what the Premier proposes -- ask if any hon. member in the House Now, this is what I invite the attention would debar me from offering an explana­ of hon. members to. The Premier was in tion? the Chamber, as I shall show by an inter­ Mr. ORICK : Certainly I would not. jection: The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I am If the amendment is fixed at 80,000, which is sure the hon. member would not. That what the Premier proposes, that is less than is why I do not wish to interrupt him at one-third of the number of electors on the roll. this stage! There was a statement by the leader of Mr. CRICK : I do not think the hon. the Opposition that that was the number member ought to be debarred, whatever the Premier proposed, and that is the the rules of the Honse may be, from offer­ number that was carried. Later on, Mr. ing an explanation. I am bringing an Lyne said: allegation against him that ought to be Therefore, I feel disposed to support the pro­ answered. But let us get on and see what posal of the Premier to make the minimt'm was done. I suppose the hon. member, 80,000 instead of 100,000, though I should like and every other hon. member who has any to leave it 100,000. pretensions to believe in the honesty of There was not one word of dissent on the Parliament as representing the country, part of Mr. Reid from the statement that will admit that it was a gross breach of 80,000 was his proposal. That was stated contract, a national dishonor, so to speak, by the leader of the Opposition. It might for us to go back on our compact with the be said, " Oh, it was made by the hon. other colonies. Does the hon. member for member for West :M:acquarie ; why should Hay deny that 1 we take notice of him 1" But it was made l\fr. AsHTON: I will speak later on ! by the leader of the Opposition, Mr. Lyne. Mr. CRICK : If the Premier denies it, In order that there may be no doubt, and I will quote his words. that we may separate the goats from the 1\fr. AsHTON : I could not convince the sheep and the chaff from the wheat, I will hon. member! ask the hon. member to say now whether lVIr. ORICK : No, because, as the hon. he did not suggest an 80,000 minimum member knows, I wanted to stop this bill. under the enabling act 1 I could not bring myself to believe that it The Right Hon. G. H. REID: In the was a good bill for this colony. I cannot debate I did ! remember the exact words, but I think my Mr. ORICK : Then the bon. member words were· that we could not hasten too admits-and this is the significant thing slowly in leaving our safe anchorage, that -the very number that I named, the we should go a;; slowly as possible in Second night. 88. Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Add1·ess in Reply

getting away from moorings that had stood Mr. CRICK : As I said before, there to us so well; and it proved what I saw are members in this House listening to later on, that not one gentleman in the me who could get up and bear out what I convention knew anything about those say if they liked. I am too old at the financial clauses until the thing was ex­ parliamentary game to drag the names of posed by the Government Statistician. other bon. members into the matter; they Later on what do I find the Premier doing1 can state what they know to be true or The leader of the Opposition said a little not. I simply make my own statement, while ago that he did not vote on the occa­ and bring corroborative evidenee from sion to which I am about to refer, but I which there is no getting away. Now we hope he will listen while I quote from get on to the third reading of the bill. I Hansard, page 3794. Mr. Neild moved could hardly believe at the time that the that the clause be amended by the addi­ Government could be a party to such a tion of the words "eighty thousand," and dastardly arrangement, because trickster afterwards Mr. Chapman moved that the and wriggler as I know the Premier to be amendment be amended by the substitu­ in order to retain his seat on those benches, tion of the word "seventy" for "eighty." I hardly thought he would bring disgrace The question was put that the word on the whole of the colony. I take Han· "eighty" stand part of the amendment_ sard of the 26th October, 1897. I just The Committee divided, and it was carried want to show the hon. member, he can by 51 to 10_ Amongst the ayes I find the judge from these remarks whether what I name of the Right Hon. G. H. Reid. Now, said then bore out what I say now, that I I told you to leave him to me. I told you knew what was going on, that I knew the he voted for it, and I do not stand at this bill was his bill, that I knew it was a go­ table without being able to substantiate vernment measure; I then went on to what I say. say, following an interjection by 1\'Ir. Mr_ LYNE : What I meant was --­ McLean: · Mr_ CRICK: Of course he would do But the hon. member contended that our first that when he had all his "push" on the bill, the basis upon which the other colonieS' other side voting for it. came into the conYention, was not a c~ntract Mr. CHAPMAN: When he was chided with them. about not voting for the 70,000 he said in Those are my own words. I could not the House that he had promised to vote then forecast what was going to happen. for the 80,000, and he would stick to it_ I did not know that I would be standing The Right Hon. G. H. REID: That was here to-night impaling the hon. gentleman_ in that debate. 'Ne had a discussion as I could not know that the bill would be to the number to be fixed! defeated by the provision with regard to l\'Ir_ CRICK : \Vhen I stood here and 80,000. I am now reading in cold type said that this was pr~ctically a government what I said then. I said: measure the Premier told me that I was a It was a distinct contract showing the basis liar_ I ask him if he still adheres to what on which this colony was prepared to confer he then said ~ with them on the prospects of bringing about The Right Hon. G. H. REID : The bon. Australian federation, and if we alter 50,000 to member spoke of the measure being intro­ 80,000, this will be a distinct breaking of the duced! · agreement with them. Mr. CRICK : I ask the hon. member Then Mr. Neild said, " Why did the hon. does he now adhere to what he said, that member vote for the second reading of thifl I stood at this table and told a falsehood ~ bill~, I replied : The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I say now Possibly for the same reason as some others. it was not a govern;nent measure ! voted for it. I have never been an enthusiast on this matter. I belie\'e that we cannot go Mr. CRICK : Who instigated it~ forward too slowly-I do not believe in leaving The Right Hon. G_ H. REID : I did not ! the anchorage we have clung to so long in a Mr. CRICK : Did the bon. gentleman great hurry, for I ha\•e not very much faith in tell anybody else to do it~ . the sincerity of those who talk most loudly The Right Hon_ G_ H. REID : No, I was about federation. several thousand miles a way from New I ask particular attention to these words : South Wales when it was introduced! Of those who ta!k most loudly about federation. [Mr. Orick. Governor's Speech: [22 JuNF., 1898.] Addreps in Reply. . 89

I then had in my mind, and I knew of What was said in the refreshment-room, this unholy, disgraceful, and dishonorable who said it to me, who were the hon. mem­ matter which was going on in regard to bers? I know them, and could name them. this bill. Let them, if they like, bear me out. If An HoN. MEMBER : not, I leave my own personal word with Mr. CRICK : An hon. member inter­ this cold type to bear out the statement, jects that I ought to have warned other that it was Government supporters who hon. members. That may be his view, but were working up this bill, who voted for it is not mine. I decline to be a tittle­ it, and all that the Premier wanted to tattler, a tale-bearer. I have steadily, know was-how the Opposition would go. during the last eight years, been very care­ I told them that, as far as I was concerned, ful about repeating statements made to I would do anything to stay the progress me. of the bill. What was I referring to in Mr. AsHTON : If the hon. member had those remarks 1 I could not make a speech only made the statement whichheis making then to fit in with what would take place now it would have been quite unobjection­ a year afterwards. This speech was made able, of course ! on the 26th October, 1897. Did I know Mr. CRICK: The hon. member can then what was going to occur at the pre­ hear what I said, and he put his own in­ sent time? Could I then anticipate what terpretation upon it. I am not a prophet is occurring to-night 1 These are the words or a moralist. In that line I suppose I I used, and I say again that this was the am as good as Jack \Vant clothed in virtue. bill of the Right Hon. G. H. Reid. Fol­ When I go out clothed in virtue like him lowing my own remarks, I said : But let hon. members show how they can ad­ I will go out on a dark night. The bon. vance this particular form of federation by sup­ member could put his own construction on porting this bill. If they can show that, they what I said then. I said : will relieve the Government from a very nasty I cannot credit very much the sincerity of a dilemma. body of men who rushed away to the Queen's Mr. Molesworth then said. jubilee, leaving the business of the federal con· I think it is an open secret that many of those vention in an unfinished st:tte, and I cannot who support the bill do so under the belief that believe very much in the sincerity of the Go­ it aims a death-blow at federation. vernment, who were the father of the enabling act, now going back on their own foundling, the There is no doubt in the world that was basis of the convention, without giving us a why the bill was supported. It is bunkum single reason for doing so. I think it is due to for any man to say that he voted for that those who support federation-to those who, at bill for the purpose of carrying out federa­ any rate, think that this colony should give to the other colonies some reason for the breaking tion. I call excuse myself in a way, be­ of the compact-that the Government should cause I was always halting on this subject, set forth the reasons why they support this bill. but I cannot excuse any hon. gentleman Further on I said : who professes to be a federationist for I think the Government ought to gi,·e some voting for the bill. I admit that my own reason, at any rate, to satisfy opinion outside, excuse is not satisfactory to my own mind. even if it is not necessary to satisfy opinion here. There were other things in my mind to be I knew very well that the Government considered. I hold the position of a repre­ could do what they like hme, and I em­ sentative of the people, and whether I ap­ phasised my words that, although it is not proved of the enabling act or not I was necessary to give any reason to this House, a member of the parliament representing the Government ought to give some reason the honor and integrity of this colony, to satisfy opinion outside. I further said : which made a contract with the other colo­ Let other bon. members be as candid. nies of Australia. I cannot sa.tisfy my own mind that I did not commit a wrong in This could not have been prophetic. l assisting to break thatcontract. I extremely must have been speaking of something regret it. Had I thought of these con­ which was in my mind. I said : sequences, had I looked sufficiently for­ I am not going to repeat anything that has ward, I would not have been a party to been said confidentially in or out of the refresh­ that bill. Much as I desired to scotch the ment-room ; but let hon. members show how they can advance this particular form of federa­ Convention Bill, I never would have been tion by supporting this bill. a party to bringing dishonor on this colony. Second night. 90 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.J Address in Reply.

Dishonor has been brought on the colony, Mr. AsHTON : How could he bind the and the bon. gentleman cannot deny it. I people 1 will now repeat and read to the House very Mr. OR.IOK: Well, the hon. member briefly a message, which must bring the can "barrack" for them as much as he likes. blush of shame to every honest man in this He has a reply on me; but I will get back colony to think that it could be wired from on him with an amendment if he annoys the Premier of Victoria that he could not me too much. trust us, that we had gone so far in the Mr. AsHTON : I shall not speak now ! depths of degrarlation tbat our Parliament Mr. CRICK : I do not want to have an could not be trusted, that whatever the angry word with the hon. member. Parliament did no more could Victoria de­ Mr. .AsHTON : The hon. member cannot pend upon us, but they must go to the people, have angry words with rue! and so truthful was it, and so appreciative Mr. CRICK: The sting of tl1is thing is of truth was the right hon. gentleman, not in the principle. Nobody objects to that his remark was that the message was the principle, because I say unhesitatingly entirely satisfactory. To keep him in office, whatever alterations are made in this hili to keep him in ministerial pay, it was satis­ they must go to the people. If I have the factory that this colony and men in this honor of a seat in the next HousA, I shall House who do not want office, who do not be no party to think of passing on the next want to sit on the Treasury benches, could bill, whatever it may be, without it has be insulted in this way. The nation of the sanction of a referendum of the people. New South Wales could be insulted in this I was pointing out the sting of the thing way, and yet its Prime 1\linister could say -the insult which is conveyed in this that the insult was entirely satisfactory. wire. It reminds me very much of the Irishman Mr. AsnTON : The hon. member would who went uninvited to a feast. When the want a microscope ! servant threw a pail of slops in his face, Mr. ORICK : It would want the hide the Irishman said, " I take it that that is of a rhinoceros to withstand it. The man a hint that I am not wanted." The hon. who could not take that insult is imper­ member, instead of saying "That is a hint vious to insult. The Premier liked it; it that I am not wanted," would have said, was entirely satisfactory. Turner told "It was entirely ~;atisfactory," and he him, " \Ve will not take your word ; we would have gone in and fraternised with will not take your Parliament's word. You the guests. Here is the wire : have deceived us; you have gone back on The Cabinet met this afternoon to consider the your word; you have been the three-card federal situation and Mr. Reid's proposal for a man; and in future before we deal with conference of premiers. Mr. Deakin was in at­ your colony, before we make a move, we tendance and took part in the discussion. It was resolved to wire to Mr. Reid in the follow­ want your people to pass it. \Ve will have ing terms:-" The Government consider that nothing to do with either you or your Par­ with a view to afford every possible opportunity liament." If that is satisfactorv to the for the consideration of the federal issue, your hon. member-- " proposal for a meeting of premiers should be ac­ cepted. If you will again communicate with the The Right Hon. G. H. REID : It is the other premiers I will join in urging them to agree true position of affairs that until the people to the proposed meeting. The question as to of New South \Vales speak nothing else whether any amendments can be made in the can be done! bill, or if made, how they can be submitted to the people, presents some difficulties. Certainly Mr. CRICK : I am done with the bon. they would require to be submitted first in New member, I can trust him no longei'. I South Wales, and afterwards, if accepted there, have come to that conclusion not without submitted to the people of the other colonies. a considerable amount of regret. All I ~Ir. AsHTON : A proper course, seeing hope is that in the next House, if I have that the bill has already been accepted by a seat, he will have his Attorney-General, the other colonies ! Vvant, here. I may well spare him to put :Mr. ORICK: Undoubtedly it is a proper my knife into Want. I want to know, and thing; but why was it necessary to tell I asked the right hon. member last night, our Prime Minister that they would not why did he vote for this bill1 He told us take his word or his Parliament's word­ of the most unutterable consequences that they wanted the word of the people 1 which would have resulted to the colony [Mr. Cl"ick. Governor's Speech: (22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 91 if it had been carried. So far as he is the bill, if the majority were in favour of concerned the bill might have been carried. the bill, he would vote to send it home, If he is a truthful man, he voted for the and, worse than that, he is the most valiant bill. If he is not a truthful man, it does labour member. I may say, as I was look­ not place him much lower in public esti­ ing in his direction just now, that it was mation than he is now. But if he is a not the hon. member for \Vilcannia who truthful man he voted for the bill. ·what made the remark to me. The Colonial did he vote for~ He is a free-trader, and Treasurer has been living on the great he boasted down at Milton or Moruya credit of taking the duty off the washer­ that he had taken off high duties imposed woman's washing soda-id. off her blue, by the Dibbs Government. I think our salt, or--something else-and something off duties run into something like £600,000. babies'food,and he sluieked,and his mouth The Right Hon. G. H. REID: More! was almost distorted with shrieking his Mr. CRICK : It might be a little more, own praises of the free and economical but it would total about £700,000. living he has given to the people of this The Right Ron. G. H. REID : More colony by removing the abominable Dibbs than that! duties. What did he vote for on the 3rd Mr. CRICK : If the bon. member wants June 1 Suppose he took off the 10 per me to go further than that I will say cent. "tariff we put on, he admits that he £800,000. voted on the 3rd June to put on a '27 per Mr. SEE: £1,500,000 he said at one cent. tariff, and yet he told them down place! at Milton that he is a free-trader. He Mr. CRICK: Just leave this tender voted to put on duties to the extent of 27 sausage to me. Will he admit that per cent., whereas, as a free-trader, he took £800,000 was the amount of the Dibbs off 10 per cent. ad valorem duties, with duties? I was on his platform at Bathurst 15 per cent. duties on luxuries. He when he was pointing out the defects of said further that he would be a brave this bill, and when he said be was going to and daring man who would attempt. to in­ vote for it. I said "a lot will follow your terfere with the free-trade policy of this example" and so far as he is concerned, we colony. That brave and daring man sits might have had foisted upon us to-day a there, because he voted to hand over to bill from which we had no escape. If this the federal parliament an inevitable 27 colony had polled 5,000 or 6,000 votes more per cent. tariff. I have always been a than it did, this bill would have been abso­ protectionist. I do not disguise the fact lutely the law of the land. The only that I am a protectionist now. But I am possible stumbling-block would have been not a mad one, and a mad protectionist is that this Parliament might not have trans­ a prohibitionist. There is no sense in' a mitted the address to the Queen. Know­ heavy ad valorem tariff from a protection­ ing this Parliament as I do, knowing what ist point of view. There no sense in tax­ they will vote for, I assert that this Parlia­ ing raw material you cannot produce. If ment would have transmitted the address. you put a 27 per cent. tariff on raw ma­ I think there would not have been more terial you cannot produce, you are taxing thanadozenof us who would not have trans­ your owrr labour. ·what the reasonable mitted the address. I, for one, would not protectionist want~? is not to tax our own have transmitted the address, and it may labour; but to tax outside labour expended be urged against me that if I am making an upon that raw material. I will never vote address to my electors, I am making a for a higher ad valorem duty than 10 per very bad one when I say that if they had cent. Indeed I think that 10 per cent. if> voted for this bill not by 80,000 but by too heavy if you have proper protectionist 100,000, I would not havestultified my judg­ duties. But here is the brave and daring ment by voting to send the bill home to the man who lays claim to support as a free~ Imperial Parliament. So far as the Pre­ trader; who was prepared to foist this mier is concerned, he voted for the bill, tariff upon us. I cannot support a leader and so did his following, every one of them. like the right hon. gentleinan who has One of the most bitter opponents of the voted for this bill, and would go miles bill-! do not see him in the Chamber away from it in order that he may remain now-told me that bitter as he was against where he is. \Ve have the same old George Second night. 92 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply.

Houstoun Reid-he is the same old hum­ by 1 What has it to do with federation bug we have known so long. But how whether Mr. Barton took certain fees or can he expect men who are uot breaking did not take them in some particular case? their necks to get on to those benches to That struck me as being small and un­ follow him 1 I am driven into this posi­ worthy of the hon. member. tion : that I cannot support this bill, and Mr. MILLEN : What has it to do with equally I must decline to support the Reid­ federation that we are frightened of our Want combination. I decline to support £6 per week 1 a combination which has fooled the people Mr. CRICK : Mr. Barton is not here. of this colony so long. The time has come Mr. MILLEN : I wish be were ! when the right bon. gentleman must learn Mt·. CRICK: It struck me that that that while he may fool a lot of the people part of the hon. mem her's speech-able some of the time, and some of the people speech though it was from his point of all the time, he cannot fool all the people view-was unworthy of the hon. member, all the time. When did the l'esignation of because if Mr. Barton were here he could Mr. John Henry ·want take place 1 It easily vindicate what he did on that occa­ came when the hon. gentleman made his sion. The best answer to the hon. member speech at the Town Hall. It was when it for Bourke is this : that upon that motion was known to him that to meet Parliament moved against Mr. Barton-if the opinion would be to meet defeat. If the Govern­ of the gentleman to whom I am about to ment had not prorogued Padiament when refer is of any value-the Right Hon. G. they did-if they had met Parliament on H. Reid voted for Mr. Barton. the due date, I challenge any one to say Mr. SLEATH: From a professional point that they would not have been defeated. of view! Mr. MILLE~: The bon. member mid Mr. CRICK : If he voted for him from just now that the Government could do a professional point of view, .what do hon. anything they liked here ! members think of his honesty 1 I am re­ Mr. CRICK: Ron. members with whom ferring to the motion which was moved by I have had little private chats outside the hon. member for Tenterfield in refer­ should not put me in the position of having ence to Mr. Barton. to retort to such interjections ; they might The Right Ron. G. H. R-RID : It was a be left to sapient gentlemen like the hon. motion of adjournment ! member for Yass. I say it was a foregone Mr. CRICK : The right bon. gentleman conclusion that this Government would himself admitted that l\Ir. Barton had done have been defeated if they had met Padia­ nothing that was professionally improper. m.ent on the due date. I give the bon. My recollection is that the· hon. member member for Bourke credit for having made voted with us on that occasion. a clever electioneering speech against Mr. Mr. SER : No ; he voted against you ! Barton to-night; and here let me say that Mr. CRICK : I will not make a posi­ I am very sorry indeed that the tug-of­ tive assertion, because I have not looked war in the Bourke electorate is to be be­ the matter np; but my impression is that tween my hon. friend and Mr. Barton, the right hon. gentleman voted with Mr. 'because they are both gentlemen I should Barton. At all events, if the right hon. wever dishonest in politics he may be, Mr. CRICK : \Vhat was it about~ remembering, as he should have done, Mr. HAYNES: Tell the House! that he was the head of this state and Mr. CRICK: Was it about this bill~ these people, forgot himself and sunk him­ Mr. HAYNES : Yes ! self into insignificance, keeping only alive Mr. GRIFFITH: \Vhat sort of a debate the fact that he was the leader of this state is this 1 of Australia. What did he do~ He vilely Mr. SPEAKER : This kind of thing can­ broke his compact with the other states, not be allowed. and with the other premiers, and left him­ The Right Hon. G. H. REIP : Mr. self a discredited politician. I do not ask Speaker-- him and the country to take my word in Mr. LYNE: I should like to know whether regard to the matter. I ask the people to the Premier is rising to make a personal take the division list, from which it appears explanation~ If he is I shall not object_ that the Right Ron. G. H. Reid voted to The RightHon. G. H. REID: That is all I alter the 50,000 minimum to 80,000 mini­ intend to do. mum. I do not now bring before bon. mem­ Mr. SPEAKER: There can be nothing else. bers my personal word. Hon. members may Mr. PERRY: The hon. and learned mem­ or may not value that. I think those who ber does not, I suppose, want to fire off know me will value it. They may think I more rockets 1 [ .Jfr. Crick. Governor's Speech : [22 JCNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 95

The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I do not bodied in the law of New South \Vales wish to do that., but I want hon. members to-day without the slightest alteration ; to recollect that when my mouth is shut a and, more than that, the draft bill itself, charge is made against me of vilely break­ which is annexed to the conference pro­ ing a compact with the other governments ceedings, ~:;hows that. there was absolutely of Australia, and being guilty of· an act no provision with reference to the subject which has never been excelled in the public which the hon. member has attacked me life of this country. Is there a man in upon-not one word. So the statement this Chamber who would deny me the that I agreed to a compact which would right of a personal explanation in regard make it dishonorable in me to put certain to that charge ? I think it will be time limits to that bill, if I did it, falls abso­ to pull me up when I go awSLy from a fair lutely to the ground. To show that there and honest explanation, such as I think was no compact between the premiers on every man in this House will allow me to the subject, in addition to the official re­ make. In the first place, I am alleged to port, in South Australia there is no stipu­ have vilely broken the compact. I know lation for more than a simple majority; that the hon. member for West Macquarie in Tasmania, I believe, it is a majority of will in one moment deeply regret that 6,000, or some small number. before he made his charges he did not take :Mr. CRICK : I rise to order. The right the trouble to look at the compact to hon. gentleman ought to be heard on a which he referred. I have in my hand an matter of personal explanation ; but that official document, "Conference of Premiers can only come in where I have misquoted held in Hobart in 1895." Here is an him. I object to the right hon. gentleman official minute of the proceedings, to which making this speech, for the reason that he the draft bill is annexed, and I read the is now going into argument, not dealing following short entries from these pro­ with misquotations of anything which he ceedings:- has said. I read from our own report in Wednesday, 6th February, 1895. Hansa1·d of the right hon. gentleman's The draft bill prepared by the Ron. George speech; and he can only show whether I Turner and the Hon. C. C. Kingston was ·con­ have misquoted him. He is arguing that sidered, amended, and agreed to as the draft of there was no compact ; but, according to a type of bill suitable for giving effect to the reso­ lutions of the conference. Hansard, he says this: Mr. Reid intimated that so soon as practicable I entirely agree with the hon. gentleman that. after the re-assembling of the New South Wales this is \·arying a compact upon which we haye Parliament his Government would introduce a invited the other colonies to act. measure providing for the chief objects of the The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I did not bill as defined in the draft. get up to speak about the hon. member's The chief objects of the bill, as defined in. quotations. I wanted to prove that his the annexed draft, are these : charge is absolutely without foundation. (1.) Forframing a federal constitution for Aus­ .M:r. SPEAKER: I think the hon. member tralasia by a com·ention consisting of ten representati \·es of each colony, directly for \Vest 1\'Iacquarie did charge the Pre­ chosen by the electors of the House of As­ mier with having been guilty of a breach sembly in each colony. of compact with the other colonieR, and That, sir, has been passed and maintained said that it was discreditable to him as intact. The second chief object is : head of the Government and to the colonv. The right hon. gentleman now desires (2.) For submitting the constitution so framed t<> to the electors for the House of Assembly in show that he has not been guilty of that each colony for acceptance or rejection by breach of compact. direct vote. :Mr. CRICK : I do not deny that I did That chief object has been maintained: say so ; but did I miRquote the right hon. (3.) For transmitting the constitution for legis­ gentleman? I read his· own words from lative enactment by the Imperial Parlia- Hansct-rd. In those words he. admitted ment. · that it was varying a compact. The hon. That provision was incorporated in the ·member could only make a personal ex­ Federal Enabling Act, and the whole of planation where I misquoted him. these objects which I agreed to at that The Hight Hon. G. H. REID: I do hope conference to embody_ in a bill are em- the hon. member will maintain the gener- Seconcl night. 96 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

osity of his attitude when he was on his Mr. CRICK : I said that the right hon. feet, and allow me, since he meant it as a member instigated the 80,000. very serious charge, not to be fettered The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I have quite too strictly in showing hon. members got a note on a piece of paper here made that there is another side to this question. as the hon. member spoke. I took down I began by showing first the essential the words "fomented and instigated the point that it is absolutely without founda­ bill." The hon. member will find from tion that the slightest compact was entered Hansard that I took his words down cor­ into between the premiers as to what num­ rectly. ber, or any number, should be put in these Mr. CRICK: ·wm the hon. member acts, and that no one engaged with refer­ answer me this : Did he suggest to any ence to that point to bind himself in any member of this House that 80,000 should way whatever. Now, I want to go on a be the number~ little further. I wish to show that there was nothing of the kind in the contract, The Right Hon. G. H. REID: Under which completely disposes of the charge circumstances, after the bill was being de­ that 1 vilely broke the contract in that bated in the HousP, which I will explain. respect. I now take tho more serious Mr. CRICK : I mean before the second charge; that is to say, the one which the reading. hon. member has quoted, that I instigated The Right Hon. G. H. REID: Absolutely, this bill of 80,000. I again give that state­ no. ment the most absolute and. unqualified Mr. CRICK : Is the hon. member sure of denial. With no human being had I the that 1 slightest conversation in reference to the The Right Hon. G. H. REID : As far as propriety of bringing in such a bill. The I know. bill was brought in on the 3rd June, when Mr. CRICK : One of the hon. member's I was on the Pacific Ocean. best supporters, as reported in Hansard, Mr. CRICK : The bill was drawn by Mr. said he did, and the hon. member was in ·want! the House and did not contradict it. The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I was at the Adelaide Convention in March and The Right Hon. G. H. REID: If that is April till I hurried back to meet Parlia­ the sort of evidence the hon. member ment, and on the 7th May I left for would seek to convict a man upon, it would England. On the 3rd June this bill be unworthy of him. There had been a was introduced by the hon. member for discussion ou the second reading of the Quirin eli. Federation Bill over the 50,000 votes-- Mr. CRICK : The bill was drawn by Mr. Mr. HAYNES: I know we fought you all Want! night on the subject! The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I know · The Right Hon. G. H. REID: The hon. nothing about that; I do not believe it. member for Wellington came to me over All I can say is that the hon. member for and over again and asked me to give him Quirindi, who has been an honest opponent a Government day to get the bill through, of mine for many years, although a per­ and I refused every time. When there sonal friend, brought in the bill. If any was an attempt made to bring the bill on one on the Government side wanted to do in an unusual way I will show the course anything of that sort, the idea of going to that I adopted. At page 3767 of Hansard a gentleman on the other side of the House it will be seen that Mr. Neild moved the seems in the first place ridiculous ; in the postponement of a certain order of the second place, it is absolutely false. day. vVe all knew that afternoon that the Mr. CRICK : How does the right bon. hon. member was determined to get at gentleman know if he was away 1 this bill, and a great effort was made to The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I am get all the business out of thR way with speaking ·of the charge against myself. that object in view. That was on the Mr. CRICK : I say that the bill was 12th October, 1897. Mr. Neild moved drawn by Mr. Want! that a certain bill of Mr. Schey's should The Right Hon. G. H. REID: The hon. be postponed. Here the man who is member says that I instigated it. charged with having instigated the bill [The Right Hon. G. H. Reid. Governor's Speech: [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in .Reply. 97

immediately came upon the scene. I might right only a line or two below the quota­ have remained quiet, but I immediately tion of the hon. member. Now, this is said: what I said with reference to the bill­ Is that the hon. member's bill? and I may tell the hon. member it was no M1·. Neild : It is all right--it is in charge of secret, that it was known that there was the hon. member for Darlington, and he under­ stands. an absolutely overwhelming majority of The Right Hon. G. H. Reid: The hon. mem­ the House determined to pass that bill at ber can only move it when the hon. member in all hazards. I think hon. members will , charge of the bill is not present. corroborate me in saying that that was an So that I was blocking an attempt of Mr. absolute fact. J\fany of these hon. mem­ Neild to get rid of another hon. member's bers were on the other side of the House, bill in order to proceed with this bill, and many more would have voted with which I am supposed to have instigated. them to upset the Government. I had to Then, later on, Mr. Haynes moved that face a house which was led by Mr. Neild, the order of tho day be postponed-the and a bill, which first of all declared federation debate-and taken at a later that there should be an absolute majority hour of the day. Mt·. Crick argued against of the electors in favour of the bill, Mr. it, and I gave Mr. Speaker the benefit of Neild declaring that there should be my opinion in these words : 100,000 affirmative votes, and having, as I have been in the House fifteen or sixteen I knew, a large majority of the House years, and I cannot remember one instance behind him. I frankly told the House, where, at this stage, what is being done by the as Hansa1·d will show, that if the House hon. member was ever done. persisted with anything like the demand So that I blocked the bill again, and those of Mr. Levien or Mr. Neild I should con­ in charge of it had to abandon their at­ sider it such a serious breach of faith with tempt, and wait until they got to it in the the other colonies that I should have to orrlinary way. When they got to it in the take the matter in a very serious way, ordinary way, this is what occurred : Mr. which. hon. mem hers know was a polite way Neild had moved the second reading of of saying I should have to make a crisis the bill. Let me here point out that the upon it. bill was to provide that, in lieu of the Mr. LYNE : Was there no arrangement 50,000, there should be an absolute ma­ between the premiers in reference to the jority of the electors of New South Wales. 50,000 ~ I always understood there was! 'fhat was the bill as introduced, and Mr. The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Absolutely Neild in introducing it, and explaining none. If the bon. member will take the that it was not his, said he intended to official documents, with the bill annexed, accept a reduction to 100,000. That was he will see that there was absolutely no his idea; instead of Mr. Levien's provision agreement on that point. he would accept a provision for 100,000 Mr. SEE : It was the bon. member who votes. fixed the 50,000 in this House ! Mr. CRICK: From what page of Han­ The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Only for sa?·d is the hon. gentleman quoting 1 New South Wales in our own colony, and TheRightHon. G. H.REID:Page3769! Sir George Turner followed with the same Mr. CRICK: Look at page 3781, where number in Victoria ; and in Tasmania Mr. Neild says, "I offered to make the there was a minimum of, I think, 6,000. number 100,000, and the Premier sug­ But there was absolutely no understand­ gested 80,000"! ing or agreement on that point from first The Right Ron. G. H. REID : Two or to last. I want to save the time of the three lines lower down it was shown to him House by not going through all these that he had made a mistake; because at quotations, and I will put the situation the time that was suggested it was not a from Hansard broadly. I said that if the question as to how many wel'e in favour House pushed this thing too far, I would of the bill, but how many total votes have to take it very seriously, or I would should be polled both for and against the have to take the vote at a general elec­ bill. Mr. Hughes, who thought I had tion in order to give the bill a fair show. promised the 100,000, on this explanation Mr. SEE : That is what ought to have saw the mistake, and I put Mr. Neild been done! Second nigl~t. 98 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Well, }.f>o. Lyne : Surely there can be no objection perhaps it was; but the hon. member for to the adoption of a course of this kind. If I thought that it was any serious breach of faith The Hume agreed with me at that time with another colony I would not support it, buc that that would not be an advisable I think that the vote which I am going to give course, and complimented me upon avoid­ will cause this matter to be more earnestly con­ ing that course, and it came down to thi~: sidered by the community. I recognise the wisdom of what has fallen from the right hon. I said at first, not 80,000-that myst1c the Premier. 80,000-but I suggested 75,000. A dis­ Now there is the leader of the Opposition , cussion went on as to the different num­ practically joining with me, and he will bers, and after the discussion had gone on be glad to know now that his opinion then I went up a little, and I said, "'Vel!, I will take.it; at 80,000." But my original stated was absolutely correct, because, as I repeat, there was no agreement of any statement and demand was that it should kind with reference to this particular be fixed at 75,000, as Hansard shows. matter. The agreement was to bring in a Mr. ORICK : Was that not breaking a bill, as I stated in the official minutes, compact 1 providing for the general objects of the The Right Ron. G. H. REID: But what bill as defined in the draft. There was no a difference between a compact made reference to the number of voters Rav­ in the open face of tbe House and the in" shown that it was not in the contract, country, and the secret and dishonorable I quite admit, that after fixing the num­ proceedings to which the hon. member ber at 50,000 in the original bill, and refers ! If it is considered a ministerial after Victoria had imitated our example, measure because the Government accept it was a thing to be regretted that Parlia­ an amendment in a private member's bill, ment should disturb the number, as it that is a phase of the matter that will en­ might seem to be a breach of faith ; but tirely fall to the gr~mnd. Then about my as a matter of simple and absolute fact vote. I said to the House, "I am against the House could have changed those num· the bill altogether, and I voted against the bers more than once without disturbing a bill on the second reading, but if I find single line of the agreement I arrived at that the House is determined to alter the on behalf of this colony with the premiers bill, and if the House will accept my pro­ of the other Australian colonies. posal and compromise, then I will make Mr. ASHTON (Hay) [9·4]: During the no further opposition." That is the ground course of the speech of the hon. member I took up. I said, "If the House will for Bourke he made some reference to the have an alteration, if on the second read· appointment of a land inquiry commission, ing we are beaten, and the House shows it and the hon. member for West Macquarie will have an alteration, then if hon. mem­ interjected, "'Vhy have a commission ap­ bers accept my compromise I will offer no pointed ?-why not have this matter re­ further opposition to the bill." They hav­ ferred to the land board in order that it ing accepted my compromise when another may not be determined according to hear­ proposal was made, of course I could not say evidence 7" That was his view. Now retreat from it. he comes to this House and tells us the Mr. ORICK : You did not vote against cock and bull story we have just listened it, you voted for it ! to, a story which he invites the House The Right Ron. G. H. Rmn : I do not seriously to believe ; but it must have been say I voted against it, because I wish to evident to him during the whole of his be quite sure of my statement. I will speech that not one hon. gentleman on his conclude with this quotation to show, out own side of the House paid any attention of the mouth of the leader of the Opposi­ whatever to it. I do not say the hon. tion, that there was nothing of the kind member for West 1\Iacquarie has come imputed to me. The bon. member for The here and made a deliberate misstatement Hume said : to-night; but he has been utterly deluded. If the minimum is fixed at 80,000, which is Mr. ORICK : I generally am ! what the Premier proposes, that is less than Mr. ASHTON: The hon. member for one-third of the number of the electors upon the roll. Wellington has been "pulling his leg " in !Jb·. Neild: 10,000 less ! one of his jocular moments. (The Right Hon. G. H. Reid. Governor's Speech : (22 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 99

Mr. HAYNES: I know that the Premier a positive knowledge of all these wicked fought U>; against the bill to the last ! machinations, this utter sacrifice of the Mr. ASHTON : Of course, and I think national honor, he himself took a hand in the explanation given by the Premier was bedraggling the national honor in the dust. unnecessary so far as this House was con­ Mr. ORICK : Any stick is good enough cerned, whatever may be its need in the to beat a dog with! eyes o£ people outside. Mr. ASHTON : Why did not the hon. Mr. ORICK: Why did the Premier vote member take the highly honorable stand for the bill 1 four or five months ago that he took to­ Mr. ASHTON: Does the hon. member night in the interests of the national honod really believe tlie story he told us, or was It is a question rising infinitely above party it merely a piece of police court tactics 7 considerations. That is his own point. Mr. CmcK: That does not alter it; I Why did he not get up in his place then do not come here as a public liar ! and make a stand on behalf of the national Mr. ASHTON: The hon. member did honor 1 Is there any answer to that 7 If not make any statement ; but he said that the hon. member is so solicitous about the somebody told him. national honor of the colony, why did he Mr. ORICK: I assert positively that the not stand up and make this revelation at bill was drawn by Mr. Want! a time when there was a chance of saving Mr. .ASHTON: Have you any evi­ the national honor 1 dence 7 Mr. ORICK : Save it with the servile l\lr. OarcK : The best in the world ! " push" behind them ! Mr. ASHTON: And the hon. member makes the statement when his friend, the Mr. ASHTON: The hon. member says hon. member for Quirindi, is absent, and he voted for this thing because any stick is when the hon. member for Paddington is good enough to beat a dog with. Now the ill in bed. hon. member t!1kes up a high, honorable 1\Ir. OmcK: Am I responsible for that7 stand, and says he considers that the 1\Ir. ASHTON: No; but the hon. mem­ national honor demands that this revela­ ber might have put the case better, with tion should be made. It is not necessary more skill, as a police court attorney, and for me to waste words on the suqject. he might have placed the facts more em­ The bon. member for vVest Macquarie does phatically. He might have presented a not often invite this House to accept sound much more convincing case than he did for sense, but that is what he has done to­ to-night. The great majority of bon. mem­ night. bers to-night must have felt that there was Mr. ORICK: I quoted Ilansard on the no evidence brought forward at all. If subject! ' such a case as that was presented in a Mr.ASHTON: It seems tome a stimulus police court, and the hon. member for has been applied to the bon. member. He ·west ::L\Iacquarie appeared on the other must have been jealous of the exhibition side, I should like to hear the vehement we had last night from the hon. member speech he would make denouncing the for Fitzroy Division, and he must have felt man who had the temerity to place such a that his light was about to be eclipsed. On case before the court. that ground alone can I account for his Mr. CRICK: The hon. member happens speech-a speech which was just as effec­ to know it is true ! tive as the speech delivered last night by Mr. ASHTON : I absolutely disbelieve the hon. member for Fitzroy Division. it. I do not think any bon. member in Mr. ORICK : The hon. member jokes this Houseregardsit seriously. Now, what with a great deal of difficulty ! was the statement made by the hon. mem­ Mr. ASHTON: As the bon. member ber for vVest Macquarie ~ He says he appears to be taking his departure, I had makes this revelation now, not ir. any party better leave this branch of the subject. spirit, but it is a question of such enormous Mr. ORICK : The hon. member is not importance, involving the national honor troubling me ! of New South Wales, that he deems it his Mr. ASHTON: I did not think I was. duty to make it public. Yet, in the next My hon. friend made some reference to breath what does he confess~ That, with some individual with the hide of a rhino- Second night. 100 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

ceros, and I did not expect to trouble the wreck it, and place it in the hands of l\fr. hon. member. In fact, if I thought that Barton, who he says will carry it to a anything I say here to-night would give successful issue. him the slightest pain it would be left un­ Mr. CHICK : I did not say anything of said. I am so friendly with him personally the sort! that I would not utter a word which would Mr. ASHTON : That is the logic of my be ·calculated to hurt hiR feelings. hon. friend. Is he not going to vote for Mr. CRICK : But the hon. member seems the amendment? to be a little upset, though ! Mr. CRICK : I would vote for anything Mr. ASHTON : Let us turn to the seri­ to kill those fellows ! ous side of the question. The bon. mem­ ber has certainly not presented the serious Mr. ASHTON : The hon. member is side of this question to-night. He has in­ striking the key-note of this situation every troduced simply the burlesque element, time. He is striking the key-note when which was exceedingly amnsing while it he says that this amendment is moved, not lasted, and now may be left on one side. to interfere with the progress of the federal Let us glance at the serious side of the movement, or to further the interests of question. I am quite with those who say the federal movement, but to kill those that the smaller matters in the politics of fellows over here. the day need not be dealt with at such a Mr. CRICK: They ought to have 1een time as this. The all-important question killed long ago ! which is raised by the address in reply is tl1e Mr. ASHTON : Exactly; and that question of federation. We have had three makes very plain -- speeches from the other side of the House, Mr. CRICK : And the hon. member and not one of the speakers has ventured thought so a fortnight ago ! to take any exception to the amendments Mr. ASHTON: The hon. member pos­ outlined in the Governor's speech. The sesses in the highest degree the merit of n leader of the Oppositicn, it is true, did candid disposition. If hon. members who certainly go so far as to say that the Go­ have spoken on that side, notably the vernment had asked, or proposed to ask, leader-the hon. member for Fitzroy Divi­ for more than it was likely to get. But sion did not make much secret of it-if he himself confessed that some amend­ the leader had confessed that the object of ments ought to be included in that list his amendment is not to further the federal which are not included, notably a provi­ cause which it professes to be, but to kill sion for the amendment of the constitu­ the free-trade Government and the free­ tion. We arrive at this point, which has trade party, then we would know a little been very strongly emphasised in the very more clearly where we stand. The hon. excellent speech delivered by the hori. member for West Macquarie has done member for Bourke-we arrive at this something toward;; dispelling the mist point : that no exception is taken by hon. which, I suppose, Mr. Lyne and Mr. Bar­ gentlemen on the other side to the propo­ ton fondly believed would hang about this sals of the Government in regard to the movement. But there was no mist from Commonwealth Bill. Indeed, the amend­ the outset. It is as clear as noonday what ment which has been moved does not indi­ the object of this amendment is. Let me cate any dissatisfaction. All it does seek just refer you, sir, to the curious way to affirm is that the matter of federation in which history repeats itself in connec­ cannot safely be trusted in the hands of tion with great subjects. We are told that the· present Government ; that is to say, the object of this amendment is to further that their ultimate intention is to ruin the the interests of the federal cause, that is federal cause instead of furthering it. And to say, it is proposed in the sacred name the hon. member for vV est Macquarie, who of federation. Let us cast our memories stands here to-night and says that he voted back to a little less than four years ago to for the 80,000 minimum in order to ruin another memorable occasion, when there the federal cause, in order not to depart was a remarkable coalition established in from the moorings to which we are at­ the sacred name of federation. vVhat are tached, intends to take this quest.ion out of the circumstances? Sir Henry Parkes, the the hands of the people who he says will federalist of the clay, joined hands with [Jfr. Ashton. Governor's Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] Addr·ess in Reply. 101

Sir George Dibbs, the 1eader of a protec­ cisely the same proceeding as was carried tionist government, in the name of feder­ on between 1891 and 1894. ation. For what purpose 1 Mr. CRICK : The hon. member is wrong :M:r. MACDONALD : To kill Reid ! about Mr. Wise opposing the hon. mem­ Mr. ASHTON : To kill Reid, as my ber for Balmain North; he is going to hon. friend suggests. What do we find oppose the hon. member for Cook Division! now 1 We find the leading federalist of Mr. ASHTON: The one point we are the day, the gentleman on whom the mantle sure of is that he is not going to oppose of Sir Henry Parkes fell, caballing with any gentleman on the other side. the leader of the Opposition, and the gen­ Mr. MILLER : The hon. member is shirk­ tleman on whom the mantle of Sir George ing his constituents ! Dibbs fell, caballing in precisely the same Mr. ASHTON : What has that to do way. 'Ve find Mr. \Vise-whose uncom­ with this question 7 I ha,d the courage to fortableness we remember on the occa­ fly in the face of my constituents with the sion of that conspiracy-in a somewhat knowledge that I have to look for another more fixed position on this occasion, but seat. I do not make any boast of it, I do on what side1 Not as a member of the not see anything quixotic about it; but, free-trade party, to which he is supposed at all events, there is nothing blameworthy to belong, but joining hands with the lead­ about it. What does all that point to 1 ing federalist, who is caballing with the Does it point to an overwhelming interest­ leader of the protectionist opposition and in the cause of federation, or does it point announcing publicly that he does not in­ to a desire to repeat the attempt at a co~lp tend t.o contest any protectionist seat if d'etat which we saw in 189,5? the protectionist candidate be a federalist. Mr. CHANTER : Why not go back to- Curiously enough, the hon. member for 1892, and tell us of the opposition then Burwood, to whom we might have looked offered by the present Premier 1 for support in this Chamber, is at this time The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Then away in England, as he was on the occa­ there was a straight issue of free~trade and sion of the last conspiracy. And we find protection ! that Mr. Bruce Smith, who was fiercely 1\Ir. ASHTON : I will speak of events opposing the Premier of the GoYernment within my own knowledge ; and I only three or four years ago, is in precisely the refer to them by reason of the striking same position to-day. \Ve find that four similaritv in the circumstances which sur­ seats are being challenged by leading feder­ rounded "the two events. alists. ·what are the seats 1 Free-tradA Mr. CRICK : That completely explains member Mr. Millen is to be opposed by why the Premier voted for the 80,000 Mr. Barton, free-trade member Mr. Hogue minimum! is to be opposed by Mr. Bruce Smith, free­ Mr. ASHTON : I was going to say that trade member Mr. Wilks is to be opposed when the hon. member for The Hume came by Mr. Wise, and one of the supporters of out boldly as an opponent of the Common­ the Government, Mr. J. C. Watson, is to wealth Bill he was the object of a great be opposed by Mr. R. E. O'Connor. Put deal of admiration for the fearless position these facts together with the new alliance he took up ; and I agree with the hon. which has been establishe:l, and what does member for West Macquarie that, if Par­ it point to 1 liament had been called together imme­ Mr. CoTTON: To sneaking in protection! diately after the Premier's Town Hall Mr. ASHTON : That the object, prim­ speech, there would have been a strong arily, is not to further the cause of federa­ liability of the defeat of the Government, tion, but to put this Government out; and, under the leadership of the hon. member if federation falls to the ground, as it did for The H ume. I cordially concur with under the management of identically the that remark of the hon, member for West same party from 1891 to 1894, then the Macquarie. protectionists, aided and abetted and Mr. CRICK : I am a bit doubtful of th strengthened by the gentlemen who delight hon. member now! in the more euphonious and, so far as this Mr. ASHTON: The hon. member may country is concerned, more honorable name well be a bit doubtful of me when I coin­ of federalists, will be able to repeat pre- cide with one of his opinions. When the H Second night. 102 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] .Aclclress in Reply, hon. member for The Hume took up that of the day and Mr. Barton may, I think, bold, fearless attitude in regard to the be fairly judged by the vo.te recorded Commonwealth Bill, he excited a great on 3rd June. Those who set federation deal of admiration and much appreciation first and terms and conditions last could on the part of hon. members on this side. fairly intrust the management of this We recognised that he was making a very subject to the hands of :M"r. Barton-those large sacrifice, that he was imperilling people, and there is a two-thirds majority his seat, and running the risk of disin­ of them in the constitution of this Cham­ tegrating his party. That he did disin­ ber, who set terms and conditions and the tegrate his party is a matter of his­ principles of government first, and federa­ tory. Unless some circumstance had de­ tion second, can haYe nothing to do with veloped which enabled the hon. member Mr. Barton. Now l belong to the second for The Hume or someone else to consoli­ class. I do not want federation--! would date the party, it was beginning to be rather not have federation-unless it can generally recognised that the bon. mem­ be had-I do not say on terms fair to the ber for The Hume would never lead the colony of New South ·wales-because I Opposition in this House. But what does am quite willing as a New SoTith Welsh· this scheme permit of~ H permits of the man to make sacrifices in the interests of reorganisation and consolidation of the Australian union. But I say as a condi­ party .not under the leadership of the hon. tion precedent of any federation there member for The Hume-because I am must be a constitution furnishing a safe afraid that that will not be contained in and enduring foundation for a great Aus­ the future for that gentleman-but it gets tralian nation. Now that is a considera­ over the split in the protectionists' camp, tion which Mr. Barton has deliberately, and promotes the successful consolidation from his earliest association with this of the party. Furthermore, by making the federal movement, completely and deliber­ protectionist party an integral part of the ately ignored. Mr. Barton's consistent federal party, it· gives Mr. Barton and his and un \'arying policy from end to end in friends the best opportunity of displacing connection with the federal movement has the free-trade Government which has come been. to accomplish federation by the within their reach during the last three or shortest cut, regardless of anything that four years. Now, if the people outside might retard it. That is where the great come to recognise that this great question majority of the members of this House of federation-which was to be kept so joins issue with him. I say that the mem­ far from party politics at the dictation of bers of this House who supported Mr. every leading m:tn-if they re.cognise that Barton in the recent campaign, who say this is to be used-to quote the phrase that federation is the first and only con­ which the hon. member for West Mac­ sideration, that principlescountfornothing, -quarie used in connection with another that the name of nationhood must be ob­ matter-merely as a stick to beat a dog tained, and that it is quite immaterial to with-what is likely to be their opinion of obtain the essence of it-the place for the alliance which is now set up~ Passing those gentlemen is at the back of Mr. away from the purely political aspect-the Barton. But the place for those bon. lowest aspect of this movement-a move­ members who contend that there can be ment that is going to degrade and possibly no safe federation except upon well-attested wreck the federal movement if persevered principles of liberal government is in oppo­ in-let us go on to consider the question sition to ll.fr. Barton. I do not mean to as placed before us on its merits. We are labour this subject, because it has been asked not to let the furtherance of the exhaustively treated by the hon. member question of federation rest in the hands of for Bourke. That bon. member has quoted the government of the day, but to put it paragraph after paragraph from Mr. Bar­ into the hands of Mr. Barton. I say ton's speeches to prove that the only thing nothing about the gentlemen with whom that has animated that gentleman has been he is associated, who, if the government of the accomplishment of federation. Speak­ the day is untrustworthy are equally un­ ing upon the assumption that the referen­ irustworthy. Now, the support which may dum had had a successful issue so far as be distributed between the government the advocates of the bill were concerned [.Mr. Ashton. Governor's Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 103 on that memorable Friday evening, Mr. determined threats against those who had Barton referred to those who had opposed taken part in blocking the passage of the the bill as assassins, and said that all that bill. It is true that those who opposed the then remained was to bring the assassins passage of the bill were supported through­ to--I think the scaffold. out the country by 66,000 voters, and Mr. CHANTER : He never made any such would have been supported by a \"ery much st.atement-1 was standing beside him ! larger number if we had had another 1\Ir. ORICK: The Sydney Morning Herald two or three weeks in which to combat so reported him ! misrepresentations, to counteract the in­ fluence of waving flags, and the beating Mr. CHANTER: He never used the

Mr. ASHTON : He said it at an early man on his knees pleading for mercy ! I hour of the evening, and in the coldest of do not wan.t to refer at length to the in­ cold blood, when he was not intoxicated consistency of Mr. Barton's attitude in by the success which he thought had come suggesting any amendments at all, when to him by the result of the referendum. he has a majority of the people of New Mr. CHANTER : It was not the same South Wales on his side, and an absolutely evening at all ! perfect constitution in his hand, according to Mr. ASHTON : No, it was not the the many speeches which he has delivered same evening. What does it matter when throughout the length and breadth of this he said it so long as he did Bay it; and country; but I, for one, who set principle some of the criminals yonder, who, accord~ first and federation afterwards, who am ing to Mr. Barton, ought to be on the willing to wait twenty or fifty years for gallows, are now joining hands with him federation rather than take it on unsafe in the interests of federation. I have said and unsound principles, have no hesitation that Mr. Barton may reasonably and right­ in determining that my place is not by the fully expect the support of the " federa­ side or at the back of Mr. Barton. I cor­ tionists at any price." The gentlemen who dially concur wit,h the majority of the are members of this House, and who sup­ amendments which ha,·e been set forth in ported Mr. Barton in the recent campaign, the Governor's speech. I confess that I may continue to support him ; but it will am not prepared to fight to the death on betray, to my mind, a greater power of the the question of the site of the federal influence of party politics on men's minds capital. I am prepared to fight very if those gentlemen who, with myself and hard in connection with one amendment others, were opposed to :M.r. Barton, can which is not specified in the Governor's accept this invitation and now join hands address, and that is the question of the with him, and march in a direction method of amending the constitution. diametrically opposed to the direction in In my judgment that is a provision of the which they have proceeded up to date. It Constitution Bill equally important with shows either that the influence of party the provision for determining the manner politics is infinitely stronger than even I of representation. It is no good giving us thought it was, or that these gentlemen are the constitution which it is proposed to very much more dishonorable than J ever give us-a cast-iron constitution, as it has suspected them of being, if the great ma­ been described by the hon. member for jority of the protectionist party consent to The Hume; it is of no use giving us tl1at join hands with Mr. Barton in proceeding constitution which is not to last for a day, towards an end which they know is not a week, or a year, but for all time, unless the end to which they have previously ex­ it may be amended so far as the federal pressed themselves as desirous of reaching. domain is concerned, according to the will So far as I am concerned, I do not pro­ of the majority of the Australian peorJe. pose to deal with any other question ex­ I am in strong and hearty concurrence with cept this question of federation. I say that suggestion which is made in the Go­ that this amendment binds the matter vernor's address that in regard to amend­ down to the question as to who shall be ments of the constitution involving terri­ trusted with the safe keeping of the mea­ torial surrender, the assent of each state sure; and as one who sets some store on should be necessary to those proposed constitutional principles of government, amendments, and it is a matter of peculiar and who values the essence of nationality, satisfaction to me that such a proposed whilst despising the mere name of it when amendment finds its place in the Gover­ unassociated with the essence, I have no nor's speech, because during the debate on hesitation in determining who shall receive the draft hill in this House I made the my support. I know that Mr. Barton's proposal, that is to say, I proposed that policy is to get federation in the shortest t!::e area of federal subjects should not be time possible. I know that he offers to increased without the assent of each state, make terms now with the men whom he and received very scant support in the previously called assassins, not because he effort I made to have that included in thinks terms ought to be made, but to save our list of proposed amendments. It iR, the life of his bill. That is the reason-a therefore, a matter of peculiar satisfac- [Mr. Ashton. - Gover-nor's Speech: [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 105 tion to me to find that it is incorporated cern themselves at all about what the pro­ in the present list of proposed amend­ tectionist party will do. That party will ments. But apart from the question be true to its purposes. That party has of amendments, involving territorial sur­ undergone a process of intellectual read­ render and the broadening of the federal justment, and it is now in that position area, I contend, with many others with in which it was son~e ten years ago, the whom I have been associated, that the determined advocate of federation. Long only sound and just way for amending the before Sir Henry Parkes took up the cause constitution in other respects is by a pro­ of federation, the protectionist mern.bers vision enacting that the will of the nation were alwaysadvocatingit. The Australian at large shall be paramount. The hon. Star, their organ, was started to promote member for Bourke has well and strongly the movement for federation, as well as pointed out that the provisions for the for protection. The protectionists, there­ amendment of this constitution would en­ fore, have always been identified with the able a mere fraction of Australian people cause of federation. It is very true that a to stand in the way of more than three­ numbf\r of gentleman took exception very fourths of the nation for all time in regard properly from their point of view to the to any proposed amendments. Now, I say Federation Bill. But now that they find that as the object of the federal movement that Mr. Barton is prepared to bring in is to create a national life, a nationality amendments of that bill, they are perfectly which is worthy of the name, and con­ ·justified in supporting him iu his proposal. tending as I do that there can be no true I will show why it is better to support nationality which is not "broad-based upon Mr. Barton than to follow the Premier in the people's will," I would fight to the very this matter. We were told the other day last gasp against Mr. Barton's proposal, by Mr. Want that he bad not gone back whilst treating as very acceptable the bill, to the Government, but that the Govern­ plus the amendments which the Government ment had come back to him. And any one now propose should be made in it, and in who remembers the energy shown by that addition the amendmentwhinh I say should gentleman in the late campaign will attach be made in it in regard to the method of importance to those words. The Govern­ amending the Constitution. I do not pro­ ment have gone back to Mr. Want; Mr. pose to deal at greater length with this Want has not gone back to the Government question. I conclude by saying that I Let us see exactly what that means. We hope that hon. gentlemen on the other know the vigorous nature and strong per­ side will reconsider their determination to sonality of Mr. vVant, and that whilst he is bring this question into the arena of mere in the Cabinet he will make his voice heard party politics. If they are earnest in their in support of his own opinions. What are desire to see this federal cause carried to a those opinions 1 ·Here are a few of them. conclusion just and satisfactory, not only Speaking in 1897 he said : to the people of New South Wales, but to As one of the recognised opponents-! might the people of Australia, I ask them to re­ say the arch destroying-angel of federation -- consider their decision before they de­ That is what he calls himself. Are we to finitely make up their minds to throw in follow the arch destroying-angel of federa­ their lot with Mr. Barton, who from end tion, Mr. Want, a prominent member of the to end of this federal movement ha<> made Reid Administration 1 He goes on to say : it manifest in every quarter that his sole I know it is the old question, and I hope it aim and object is to bring about the name will be a good deal older and a good deal more of federation without paying any regard musty before we have done with it. at all to the question as to whether the This is the gentleman that we are asked to essence of nationality is obtained. follow in preference to Mr. Barton. We are l\Ir. O'SULLIVAN (Queanbeyan)[9·44]: asked to follow a gentleman who is the arch The hon. member for Hay is always worth destroying-angel of federation, and who listening to, and to-night he gave us one of hopes the question will grow a great deal the very best addresses that we have eyer oldet· and more musty before we have done heard from him in this Chamber. How­ with it. That is not all. Further on he says: ever, let me tell that bon. member, and the The Chinese difficulty has gone, and I hope Premier as well, that they need not con- federation will go with it. Second niglLt, 106 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY. J .A.cldress in Reply.

This is a bright champion for the bon. matter; but I have here a quotation from member for Hay to follow. This is a sturdy the late Sir Henry Parkes, who thus made advocate of the great cause of federation a prophecy that has been verified by for the hon. member for Bourke and other results: well-meaning, conscientious anti-billitrs to In spite of the protestations of Mr. lteicl, that take up their stand with. :Mr. Want goes he is now a federalist, I venture to predict that when the occasion arises, and arise it must, in on to say: which he will be called upon to act upon his Is there anything in the question of federation declaration, Mr. Reid will be found to he nothing more than a mere fad ? more or less than a disguised enemy of Aus­ That is all that it is to Mr. Want. This tralian union. pronounced provincialist can only see in it Has that not been provt>d to the letter a mere fad. He has no conception about during the last few weeks 1 Have we not the great question of national unity. He seen Mr. Reid playing a most extraordin­ is a native of the country, and he is a poli­ ary part-a part, I will undertake to say, tician of the old provincialist school which that has no parallel in British political was reprEsented by the late Sir J obn history-towards this grt>at cause 1 I will Robertson. Nobody had a greater respect go on to another gentleman, for whom we for Sir John Robertson than I had. He have a great respect--the present leader of was my first leader. But Sir John Robert­ the anti-billites. I allude to Sir George son was extremely provincial in his deal­ Dibbs. He said of the Premier : ings with the other colonies. He was for Mr. Reid occupies a remarkable position. He New South 'Wales ctlone. He had no re­ helped us, but he was a traitor to his own side. gard at all for all Australia; he was merely This is the definition of Mr. Ashton's a provincial politician. Mr. ·want is one leader in the cause of federation by the pre­ of his followers, and that is why we find sent champion of the Anti-Convention Bill him to-day such a strong provincialist, Association. ·what position, then, does the and one who calls federation a mere fad. hon. member for Hay occupy 1 He is I should like to ask these gentlemen who going to follow two men who, we are told talk about their zPal for federation if we on the best authority-by himself and by can trnst the cause to the hands of J. H. two eminent politicians-are not true \Vant 1 He will take care that his views federalists. Yet the bon. member for Hay, are not overridden in the Cabinet. He after advocating the cause for about fifteen will enforce his way wherever he is. People years, comes iorward and says he is pre­ only find out the strength of Mr. ·want pared to follow G. H. Reid and J. H. when they are in opposition to him. He \Vant. The 1\Telbourne Age, speaking of is one of the strongest men in this country, the Premier, puts it rather strongly, and, and I deeply regret that he should ever perhaps, deservedly, when it talks of_:_ have taken up the stand he has done the treachery of that political Judas, :Mr. Geo. against this great question of federation. Reid. It is useless for him to tell us in a hazy Then the Melbourne Argus remarks: kind of way that he is a federalist. vVe The unfortunate and inexplicable trimming of have only just heard it. All last year he l\Ir. Reid, which it is impossible to jnst;fy and was belching out his hostility to the cause difficult to understand. in every shape and form. Let us see who That is how the .Argus speaks of the hon. these other gentlemen are whom we are to gentleman-that great free-trade organ, follow. The Right Hon. G. H. Reid, after that on many occasions has lauded him to a somewhat peculiar line of conduct on the the skies. All this goes to show the kind question-first opposing it, then taking of champions we are asked to follow in it up, then taking part as a delegate in the the great cause of federation. vVhy, I convention, then corning forward and, while marvel at the audacity of the bon. mem­ professing to embrace the bill, stabbing ber for Hay and the hon. member for it quietly in the back, and then winding Bourke in standing up here with these up by telling us that, after all, it is good facts staring them in the face, and telling enough for him, and be will vote for it­ an assembly like this, as wPll as tlw people this is the gentleman we are now asked to outside, that they prefer to take senice follow as the leader in the cause of federa­ under the banner of :Mr. Reid and Mr. tion. I do not want to be offensive in the \Vant, rather than follow Mr. Barton. I [Mr. O'Sullivan. Governor's Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Repl'!J. 107 am just reminded that those gentl<'men colonies can see that as plainly as Mr. thought so much of Mr. Barton that they Reid can himself, and they are not going wanted to make him their vice-president, to be humbugged over this question. But but these two prominent members of the if we place the cause in the hands of .l\'Ir. anti-billite associa.tion now think that Mr. Barton we shall have some assurance, at all Barton is not the man to follow. He is good events, that the amendments will be put enough to be their vice-president, but he is into force. vVe have no assurance what­ not good enough to follow. All I can say is ever that the amendments suggested by that Mr. Barton may have given utterance Mr. R.eid-which may be right enough in to some indiscreet remarks; he may pos­ themselves-will ever have the force of sibly in the friction of a very hot campaign law; but we do know that the premiers of have said things that were not altogether the other colonies are willing to receive proper to say; but, neverthe)ess, there any possible suggestion from Mr. Barton. can be no doubt that on this great ques­ Therefore, those who favour federation. tion of federation, Mr. Barton represents need have no cause to hesitate as to whom better the feelings of the people of New they shall follow. It seems to me almost South ·wales than does the Right Hon. like running counter to common-sense, in G. H. Reid. That is pro,·ed by the votes view of these facts, to say that we shalL of the 71,000 persons in his favour. Not follow Mr. Reid antl ignore Mr. Bn.rton. only is that the case with regard to Mr. As to the sentiment of federation in Barton in New South vVales, but if we New South Wales, there can now be no look around at the other colonif's do we mistake. Whether we were for or against not find that he has the respect and admir­ the bill we must all admit that the people ation of every one of them? want some form of federation. I am cer­ Mr. HAYNES: I read one or two splen­ tain that no man could get a seat in New did articles from the hon. member's pen South Wales at the next election unless. against the bill ! he is prepared to go for some form of fed-· Mr. O'SULLIVAN: At one time I eration. When the people are making a was inclined to vote against it; but when demand for this great work to be carried I saw a peculiar combination forming, and out, it is our bounden duty to give it to heard certain sinister rumours, I began to them as soon as possible. The hon. mem­ prick up my ears, and I thought I had better ber for Hay talks about being prepared to not be in such company. Mr. Barton un­ wait for twenty or fifty yea.rs for federa­ questionably has the respect and admira­ tion if these principles are not adopted. tion not only of New South Wales, but of As a matter of abstract politics that is a. the whole of Australia. The premiers of perfectly sound position to take up; but the other colonies are prepared to deal with suppose everybody else also said, "I will him. Tbey are willing to enter into nego­ have my ideas and nobody else's carriedJ tiations with him for an amended bill;· out," there never would be ft'deration. ·. but they toltl the Premier plainly-some Compromise is the very sole of corporate of them rather pointedly-that they would action, anJ when you have politic:al cor-­ not confer with him on the matter. Why? porations to deal with you must have Because they distrust him, because he bas compromise. tricked them, and because, as they plainly Mr. S. SmTII : But the hon. member implied, they have no faith whatever in his does not believe in compromise. He wants proft>ssions. They can read him just as the bill and nothing but the bill! plainly as be can read himself. They see Mr. O'SULLIVAN: vVe are prepared· that all this agitation is got up- for the to make any possible amendments in the purpose of getting a new cry for this Go­ measure, and we have declared so, and I vernment to go to the country upon. Their think the people will be inclined to trust great policy was exploded, they were in us because they know we are in earnest ;· disrepute on every side, and by reason but they mistrust the hon. gentleman and of this anti-billite cry, under the leader­ his colleagues, because they -know it is ship of 1\lr. Want, they would be enabled only a tl'ick to secure a fresh lease of life to enlist the political enthus'iasm of genuine at the election. We now stand in this democrats outside who believed they were position : vVe know that the protectionist in earnest. The premiers of the other forces haYe rallied to the side of federa- Second night. 108 Governor's Speech : [ A\SSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

tion, and there are tem of thousands of only advocated to gull and decei\·e the free-trade federationists. We can work people, and, unfortunately, it had that hand in hand with them. J nst as there was effect; but I think the old proverb of once a majority for the bill at the referendum, bitten twice shy will make the people of so there will be a large majority next time New South Wales very chary about accept­ in favour of Mr. Barton's views. Sixty­ ing any such statements from the members six electorates declared for the bill at the of this Ministry. I was not at all en­ referendum. How many more will de­ amoured of the Federal Convention Bill. · clare for federation when they know the To me it was by no means satisfactory, bill is to be amended 1 A majority of over but I recognised the fact that if we want 5,000 declared for the bill as it stood, and federation we must compromise our views. when they know that the bill is to be \Vhat may suit me may not suit thousands amended, thousands who want federation, of men in South Australia, West Austra­ but who were somewhat doubtful ahout lia, or Tasmania, and if we want a genuine the bill, will vote for those who offer reason­ federation which will include all Australia, able amendments, and who show that those and it is idle to talk about federating amendments can be given the force of law. with Queensland alone, then I take it We are the only party which can show that we ought to be prepared to accept that. The other colonies have told yon some compromise. Once the constitution dearly and distinct.ly that they will not is passed into law, even if it be not negotiate with the Premier, and, therefore, amended-and I hope it will be amended there is no possibility of your amendments before it is passed--it contains powers by ever gaining the force of law. I suppose which we cail remove almost every objec­ they are trotted out to catch votes, and so tionable feature if the people will it so. far as they serve you in the elections that The powers of amendment in that consti­ will be the extent of their utility, coming tution are much more elastic and more from that side of the House. If the liberal than the powers of amendment in amendments were in more conscientious the American Constitution, yet we know hands they might be passed into law, as that the constitution of the United States no doubt they will be. \Ve know the mlue has been fifteen times amended by the of thP. promises of this Government from American people. Surely if the people of their treatment of the great question of the United States can amend their consti­ Upper House reform. Only three years ago tution fifteen times it is within the power they went to the country on that question, of the people of Australia to demand from and came back with a tremendous ma­ their representatives an amendment or jority. They received a mandate from the improvement of their constitution. Even people to reform the F pper House : it was if the bill be not amended, and I have the very cause of their political existence; no doubt that it will be amended, all but I challenge any supporter of theirs to these objectionable featurE's can still be re­ show me where they have taken any honest moved. The great thing to do is to feder­ step to redeem that promise. If we find ate, and I warn hon. members that there .them deceitful on that great question, can are dangers looming up around us every we trust them on federation or any other day which will cause us by-and-by tore­ .-.question 1 I venture to say that the people gret the loss of time over this great ques­ -of this country have taken their measure tion. vVhilewe are frittering away valuable from their want of fidelity to that very pro­ weeks on the discussion of constitutional posal. They see now what arrant humbug defects or financial disadvantages, there are 'it was when the Premier used to rant and enemies to our race growing more power­ :roar about the fossils in the other House. ful every day around us. Do we not see They will remember how they were be­ Russia now firmly entrenched in China 7 fooled into voting for candidates because Do we not see France in New Hebrides, they thought that they were going to New Caledonia, and in China 1 Do we reform the Legislative Council of New not see Germany in China and New South Wales. We know how thev have Guinea, and do we not see the Americans been treated. We know very well that the proposing to take the Hawaiian Islands as Ministry never intended to make any such well as t-he Philippine Islands 1 What does reform. It was only a mockery. It was it all mean 1 It means that we have so f.Jf r. 0'Sullivan. Governor's Speech: L22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 109

many competitors corning into the Pacific warded in vessels of the volunteer fleet, Ocean to become rivals with us for the su­ and 120 more are now on their way to premacy of that great waterway. It ought Port Arthur. All have been shipped as to be our great mission to maintain the "material for the Trans-Siberian Rail­ supremacy of the Pacific Ocean, because in way." At the same time, Vladivostock doing so we maintain the prestige and the was so extensively armed and provisioned power of our own race in the southern world. as to be able to support for two years the Therefore, I say we are losing valuable Russian fleet in the Chinese waters. Fur­ time week after week ; these powers are ther, the Trans-Stberian railway is being growing stronger, and it is only a question pushed on with the utmost possible rapidity, of time, according to Lord Salisbmy, when large bodies of soldiers aiding the regular a great war must take place. I am not workmen, and light, portable materials using idle words for the purpose of creat­ have been sent out, by means of which, in ing a war scare. I prefer to take the lan­ case of any sudden movement becoming guage of the Prime Minister and Secretary necessary, a light line could speedily be for Foreign Affairs of Great Britain, who, carried through to Port Arthur, thus speaking before 12,000 persons in the facilitating the concentration of troops. Albert Hall, London, recently said : In view of these striking developments, For one reason or another the li ,-ing nations will are we justified as a sane people in longer gradually encroach on the territory of the dying, delaying the great question of Australian and the seeds and causes of conflict amongst civil­ ~ It ised nations will speedily appear. Of course it is unity would be a very poor reflection not to be supposed that any one nation of the upon us if through our delay in endea­ living nations will be allowed to have the profit­ vouring to get a proper constitution to able monopoly of curing or cutting nptheseunfor­ suit the hon. member for Hay, and the tunate patients~and the contrO\·ersy as to who hon. member for Bourke, or the .labour shall have the pri,·ilege of doing so, and in what manner he shall do it~these things may intro­ party, we lost a year or two more, and duce causes of Yital difference between the great thus prevented ourselves from presenting nations whose armies stand opposite threatening a united bold front to the enemies of our each other. These are the dangers, I think, r~ce. Let not people view the present which threaten us in the period that is coming on. It is a period which will tax our resolution, indications lightly. It is well known that our tenacity, and imperial instincts to the ut­ there is a strong feeling in Europe now most. amongst the great powers in the direction In addition to this ominous announcement of a combination for the purpose of de­ by the Premier of England, that steps are stroying the prestige of Great Britain, and being taken by Great Britain to prepare of possibly taking away some of her terri­ for war, we know that only a few weeks tory. We have seen the same thing again ago 20,000,000 ball cartridgfls were distri­ and again in history. Whenever one great buted amongst the volunteer forces of nation has endeavoured to dominate the Great Britain-not to fire away in reviews, world, there has a\ ways been a combina­ but in order that that arm of the service tion against her. Readers of history will might be in readiness for a sudden outbreak remember that the League of Cambray of war. We have also seen the fortifica­ against the republic of Venice was one of tions of Hongkong extended, and a propo­ the causes of the downfall of that great sal before the British Parliament, by Lord power. Then when Spain was overawing Charles Beresford, for the expenditure of the rest of Europe, there was a combina­ £35,000,000 upon the British fleet. We tion of England, Holland, and France have seen also many other steps taken by against her, which led largely to the the British Government to prepare for crippling of Spanish power in Europe. this irrepressible conflict. On the other \Ve also remember that when Napoleon hand, we find that the Russian Govern­ Bonaparte endeavoured to stand as a Co­ ment have not been idle. It has been lossus over the rest of Europe, when he was discovered that, during the past six months, toppling monarchs from their thrones and Russia has been secretly-but assiduously placing his own kindred upon them, all -getting ready for a campaign in support Europe combined against him and over­ of her intended acquisition of Port Arthur threw him; and that is the feeling to-day and Talienwan. So long ago as last Octo­ in Europe against Great Britain. Great ber, 100 heavy, long-range guns were for- Britain has become so powerful and ricl1, Second night. 110 Got•ernor·' s Speech : [ASSE~BLY.J Address in Reply. and has so much territory all over the especially now that there is a chance o£ world, that the other nations have natur­ getting amendments, in the hope that at ally got jealous. I am a man who all events we will secure the great work o£ thoroughly believes in the maintenance of national unity ; and by so doing I think the integrity, not only of the British Em­ we shall do far more good for the people pire, but of the English-speaking people, of Australia than we possibly could do by and I therefore look forward to the day fighting over mere details. when we shall have a federation, not only M:r. ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL of Australia, but a confederation or alli­ (Illawarra) [10·19]: It is deeply to be re­ ance of all the English-speaking people gretted that for the third time during the upon earth. That is no far-fetched dream, last few years, this, the greatest of all because if we look round the world to-day questions, has been dragged down into the we find that such racial movements are mire of party strife. The btest develop­ going on. For centuries Germany was at ment of the federal movement has been, war with the conquerors of Europe. They until last evening, kept above party, and were a divided and distracted people, be­ it ·is to be deeply lamented that we have cause they could not agree to pull toge­ now brought it down again to the same old ther. To-day we find them a great and level of the struggle going on between the powerful race-perhaps the most powerful party in power and the party out of power. military nation in the world. Why~ Beca11 se This House has proved itself over and over they carried out the great principle of unity again absolutely incompetent to deal with \Ve know how the Italians were divided, tl!e question of federation. It proYed it and how they suffered in the hour of divi­ in regard to adding 30,000 to the 50,000 sion. They have become united. \Ve see minimum; and what exhibition haYe we every day in the east of Europe what is in connection with this movement ~ \Ve called the Pan-Slavonic movement going have the leader of the Opposition bringing on. This is a movement largely fomented forward this amendment. He himself has by Russia, by which 75,000,000 of the denounced the bill. He does not repre­ Slavonic races will become her virtual sub­ sent his coii.stituents who polled heavily jects. If all these great movemer1ts are in favour of the Commonwettlth Bill, with going on surPly we will be false to our a mere peppercorn minority against it. trust, and blind to our future if the British The gentlemen who have made the ablest people do not endeavour to unite together speeches on this subject-the members for for the purpose of resisting this combina­ Bourke and Hay-do not represent the tion of foreign powers against them. This opinions of their constituents on this ques­ is no idle threat, and it is useless for men tion. \Ve may say in regard to nearly who have given no attention to these ques­ eYery gentleman who has spoken on the tions to rise up in a feeble and puerile way question that he does not represent the to belittle any statement of this kind. Let constituents who sent him herfl; and the any man study the periodicals of the day, idea of bringing forward a resolution ask­ let him read the speeches of the st-atesmen ing Parliament t,> solemnly declare wh6 of Europe, and he will find every word I should or who should not lead on "this have said to-night will be verified by them. question in the country is utterly absurcl. In the face of all these dangers does it not The only place to decide this greu.t ques­ fieem childlike, does it not seem to be utterly tion will be at the general election. No beneath the dignity of manhood to waste matter what rewlution this House may time o\·er small matters, and to neglect the pass it will go for nothing until the coun­ great question of Australian unity 1 To me try has spoken at the geneml election. it does. I do not say that I am altogether It really amounts io this : that the leacke satisfied with the constitution. If I had of the Opposition, realising tbe position in the drawing of one up it would be of a which he has placed himself, he or his much more ad \'anced character than the friends have adopted this adroit move to one before us. I would like to see em­ enable him to recover !1is lost position. If bodied in it all the latest ideas of demo­ the leader of the Opposition goes before cratic government. They are not in it. his constituents for re election, assuming But it is the best compromise we can get, the attitude which he has in regard to and, therefore, I am willing to take it, this question, the result of the poll will be (Mr. O'Sullivan. Governor's Speech: [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. IN. a foregone conclusion. But he or his ad­ to the country, Queensland of all the Aus­ visershave come to the conclusion thatifhe t.ralian colonies would have been foremost could go under the mantle of Mr. Barton in Lringing about the accomplishment of his return would be safe. [House counted. J the movement. We may depend upon it I say that the leader of the Opposition that as years go by it will be all the more could not venture, except with the cer­ difficult to carry ont those high democratic tainty of absolute defeat, to appear before principles which hon. members are anxi­ his constituents; but if he could only go ous to see embodied in the uew constitu­ there with the mantle of Mr. Barton over tion. Federation will probably have to be his shoulders, his sins in regard to the brought about under the pressure of war Commonwealth Bill might be forgiven, or of some scare. I am pleased to see that and we should probably have him back in now not only ~Ir. Barton but the Govern­ this House again. In regard to this ill­ ment are determined that the federation advised, highly to be regretted move of movement shall not fall to the ground. It bringing the matter into party politics, if the question comes to a vote in this House the gentlemen who are endeavouring to or out of it, if I can do anything to help bring about a coalition between Mr. Bar­ federation I will give my vote for it, no ton and the leader of the Opposition could matter who may be the leader. succeed in bringing together the forces of Mr. CRICK: \Vill you do so against the :\Ir. Barton and the Premier, they would Government~ be acting in the true intt>rests of federa­ Mr. ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL : I tion. If the forces of Mr. Barton and the will not support a bogus resolution like the Premier could be united, it ·would be the one now before us, which is a mere will­ very best thing that could happen in con­ o'-the-wisp brought forward at the close of nection with the federal cause ; but to the Parliament which is not competent to bring forward this resolution in such a express an opinion upon the subject-a manner only inflicts a great injury on parliament which has broken faith with federation. I have no donut many hon. the other colonifs already, and which has members supporting it are thoroughly sin­ stultified itself by adding 30,000 to the cere as federalists ; but they are certainly 50,000 votes first required in order to carry taking a wrong course. They are repeat­ out federatio11. I will not vote for a bogus ing tactics which have failed twice, and I amendment which will do more harm to am afraid they will retard the cause. I the federal cause than a11ything which bas am one of those who not only said I would occurred during the last four years. \V ere support the bill, but I also voted for it. it a straight-out proposal to -repeal the The amending act said that if the people 80,000 act eYen in this House, I would did not carry the measure by 80,000 vote for it. \Vere it a straight-out pro­ Yotes it should die. That was the posi­ posal to reject the Commonwealth Bill, and tion in which it was placed before the its fate depended on the vote of this House, country at the referendum. Rather than my vote would be given in its favour. I that the great federal cause should fall regret very much that this amendment has to the ground, rather than that nothing been brought forward. I also regret very should come of the movement, I was pre­ much that the gentlemen who have brought, pared to accept the bill, or even a this coalition about between Mr. Barton much worse bill. Unlike the bon. mem­ and Mr. Lyne did not exercise all their Ler for Hay, who would wait for half a powers to bring about a coalition letween century, I am one of those who believe Mr. Bru·ton and ::\'Ir. Reid. that every year which passes brings about Mr. GILLIES: But the bon. member sup­ greater obstacles to federation. We have ported Mr. Barton and the bill ! an illustration uf that in the case of Mr. ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL : I Queensland. In 1891 Queensland was one voted for the bill, and I will vote for it of the most ardent of the Australian colo­ again if no better bill can be got. nies for federation. Although Sir Henry .Mr. WADDELL (Cobar) [10·32]: _I Parkes was the acknowledged head of the must compliment my bon. friend who baS­ movement, Sir Samuel Griffith, represent­ just resumed his seat upon having made n.. ing Queensland, was really captain of the very manly and straight-out speech in federal ship. Had the matter then gone favour of the great cause we have at heart. Second night. 112 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply.

I always admire a man on whichever side sitting, there might haYe been some hope of the House he sits who will be straight­ of our getting federation-when we con­ out and manly, and therefore I compli­ sider the large number of amendments ment my ·hon. friend very warmly on his demanded by the Government, among attitude. I am not very sanguine now others, I believe, the placing of the federal that we are going to see federation for capital in this colony, and when we con­ many long years, if we ever live to see it sider these amendments in relation to the at all. During the fight on the Conven­ debates which took place in the conven­ tion Bill, I, like others who were fighting tion, I ask hon. members whether they on the same side, said I believed that if think there is the slightest hope of our that bill was not carried, in all probability getting federation for many years to come? it meant the death-knell of federation-at We find some of the leading men in the any rate, it meant postponing the federation public life in this colony, the leading man, of the colonies for many long years. That in: fact, the Premier, asking for a large was my fear then, and that is my fear now. number of alterations in this bill, the I believe that the action which has been majority of which he knows the other taken through this country by a large num­ colonies will never consent to. Any man ber of public men, and some of the news­ who declares himself an ardent federa­ papers, in trying to blacken that bill, to tionist, and who in the same breath asks make it appear in its worst light before for conditions which he knows are im­ the people, has been the means of destroy­ possible, might just as well take the ing the most democratic, the freest, and straight-out course of opposing the move­ the best constitution which the wide world ment altogether. We have heard a good has ever seen. Before it was submitted to deal about the referendum in connection the electors for their decision I recognised with this matter. I have always believed that it contained some faults, some clauses in the referendum ; but at the same time, which I 'vould like to see constructed other­ I think it is quite possible for persons to wise. Still, notwithstanding such faults push their ideas in connection with matters as the Braddon's blot and the three-fifths of that kind a little t.oo far. A number of majority blot in the deadlock chtuse­ gentlemen connected with this movement provisions I would like to see in a differ­ have advocated that we should have a mass ent form-I believe that the constitution referendum in connection with an amend­ would have worked with wonderful satis­ ment of the constitution. lf that be right faction to the people of Australia ; and the -I am not saying at this moment whether <:olonies might have safely federated under it; is right or wrong-upon the question it. I believe that the action of the people whethertheconstitution should be amended of this country-misled, as I feel sure a are hon. members in favour of such a re­ large portion of the minority were who ferendum being taken upon the question voted against the bill-has, in all human of whether the constitution in the first in­ probability, prevented the possibility of stance should be adopted 1 If it is right to our getting federation for many years. At have a mass referendum when an amend­ the same time, as an ardent federationist, ment of the constitution is proposed, that as a man who has never shrunk from sup­ is a referendum without .reference to how porting a federation proposal, no matter the indiddual states may feel on the ques­ from which side of the House it has eman­ tion, then I think it is equally right ated, I shall fight for the movement so that there should be a mass referendum long as there is the slightest hope of its when the constitution is first framed, and being carried to a successful issue, because that the result, whatever it may be, should I believe it will do an immense deal for be acted upon. What would have been the masses of the people of these colonies. the result had there been a mass referen· Now, I ask hon. members whether that is dum upon the question of the adoption of a very hopeful position? When we come this constitution 1 I ask the gentlemen to consider the large number of amend­ who are so very much in love with this ments which have been suggested in the particular mode of settling questions of bill-had there been only one or two, such this kind under all circumstances, what as the omission of the Braddon blot and would have resulted from a mass referen­ the three-fifths majority in the joint dum of the people of Australia in connec- [Mr. Waddell. Governor's" Speech : [22 JuNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 113 tion with this Constitution Bill 7 Judging Adelaide Convention met ? The very first from the figures in the recent referen­ thing the members ofthat convention from dum, a vast majority, an overwhelming all the colonies did was to select Mr. majority, of the people of Australia, Barton as the leader to take the bill in more than two to one of them, would have charge. Thus they showed the utmost and been in favour of the constitution. The most unbounded confidence in Mr. Barton reason I shall vote for the amendment be­ as a man to be trusted in connection with fore the House is that I do not think the this movement. Mr. Barton's attitude all Premier, by his actions, if we are to be through has been consistent. If he, when guided by common-sense, is to be trusted the convention was sitting, did not believe in connection with this matter. In the the bill was one which he could recom­ first place, he has recently taken Mr. Want mend to the people of this country, he back into his Government-a Dian whom could, whilst there was a chance of making we all know, unless we doubt common­ amendments, have pointed that out to sense, to have been always hostile to fed­ the convention, and told them that as an eration under any terms whatever. The honest man he could not l'f\COmmend it Attorney-General, whenever this question to the acceptance of New South Wales. of federation has come before the Parlia­ There would then have been a chance ment in the past, that is, up to the recent for the convention to amend the bill, convention, has shown himself to be abso­ and make it acceptable to the people lutely hostile, not only to any bill which of this as well as of the other colonies. might be submitted in connectjon with the The same remark applied to the Premier. movement, but hostile to any form of fed­ If the Premier at the Adelaide Convention eration whatever. If that is the case, and thought this was a bill which he could not if the Premier had that fact in his know­ cordially support and recommend to the ledge, and, notwithstanding, took Mr. people of this country, then, when there Want back into his Govern]llent, saying was a chance of amending it, he should that he is one with him in his opinion of have accepted the chance and done all be the measure, how is it possible for any could to get it amended. He should have sane man to believe that the Premier is gone as far as to tell the convention that sincere in wishing to see federation brought unlc>ss they consented to the amendments about 1 The Premier, in his speech, re­ he desired be would leave the convention, ferred to his action in connection with this and would not recommend the people of movement, and compared it with the action New South Wales to accept the bill. If of Mr. Barton. He pointed out that as he, as the Premier of the leading colony, Mr. Barton had been for several years in a had taken up that attitude, I have no government, and had taken no particular doubt whatever that the convention would part in bringing federation, he could not have paused before going against his will. be as sincere and- ardent a supporter of Precisely the Eame thing occurred when it as he hilmelf was, considering what the convention was held in America to he had done. My answer to that is this: frame a constitution there. The repre­ that knowing all that, when the people sentatives of New York, then a small state, of this country had the opportunity of took the stand that they could not recom­ giving a vote as to whom they would mend the constitution to that state unless trust in the convention to frame a federal certain things were conceded. When they bill, by a majority of more than 10,000 saw that there was no chance of obtaining they voted in favour of Mr. Barton, thus provisions which would _meet with their showing that there were 10,000 more approval they left the convention and said people who had confidence in Mr. Barton they would have nothing to do with the than in the Premier as the leader of the constitution. That is the attitude which federal movement. Then we come to the should have been adopted by men repre­ Adelaide Convention. We all know that senting this colony at the convention. If when that convention met the premiers of there was any provision which made the the other colonies had no ill-will towards bill such that they could not recommend the Premier. Nothing had occurred since it heartily to the people of this country, the 1891 convention to cause bad feeling they should have taken a proper sfand amongst them. \Vhat was done when the when there was an opportunity of amend- Second night. 114 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. ing the measure. VVhat sense was there tion of the bill in the eyes of the people, in the Premier allowing the conYention to and, if possible, to magnify any faults it separate with the feeling that he was satis­ might ha,·e, and thus cause people not to fied to adopt the measure as the constitu­ vote for it 1 tion of Australia, and immediately after­ An Hox. ME1IBER: Is he less consistent wards, when it is submitted to the people than the leader of the Opposition 1 of this country, using all his great ability Mr. vV .AD DELL: I am not defending to cause the people to reject it with the the leader of the Opposition. Much that view of commencing to do in the future that hon. gentleman has done in connec­ what he should have done in the past? tion with federation I deeply deplore. But Since the rejection of the Commonwealth I must say this of him, that he has been Bill he has been endeaYouring to get the consistent from first to last. He took up various premiers to agree to certain amend­ a position which I regarded as very nar­ ments. \Vould it not have been better to row-minded and provincial, asking such have had th03e amendments fought out an unreasonable amount of things to be in the convention by men who were pro­ conceded to this colony that we could not perly elected to deal with the constitution~ hope to get federation if we insisted on There was a combination of men there those demands. But I give him credit for specially elected by all the colonies to deal being consistent from beginning to end, with this matter, and if the Premier could much as I deplore the course he has taken, not recommend the bill, O\Ying to any pro­ and disagree with the conclusions he has vision in it, to the people of this colony, come to. Nothing can justify any man his duty, as a sensible man in favour of holding a public position in connection federation, if he is in favour of it, was to with a matter of this kind, intimating tell the convention plainly that he would that he will vote for a matter respecting not recommend the bill to the people of which he uses the strongest arguments this country; that, on the contrary, he to prevent other people from voting for would oppose it all through the colony, it. That is one of the principal reasons and do his best to prevent it from becom­ that will make me vote for the amendment ing the constitution of federated Australia. now before the House. I deplore it very That would have been a common-sense much, because, as I said before, I have position for him or any other member of not paid the slightest regard as to who the convention to ha,·e taken up. If he should bring forward or assist in dealing did not agree with the bill it was his duty with this great question, whether it was to tell the convention that he could not the Premier on the one hand or the recommend it to the people of the colony leader of the Opposition on the other. that he represented unless it was altered. \Vhen Sir Henry Parkes first brought Then the convention would know that federation into the practical politics of this unless the bill was altered there would be country, although I was sitting in opposi· serious doubts as to its being accepted. tion to him, I cordially supported him on The Premier, even if he might be trusted every occasion, regarding as I did the ques­ in connection with this matter, is not the tion of federation as being far more than man whom the people wish to have as the of local importance. I supported Sir leader of the great federal mo.-ement. l\Iy Henry Parkes, and nothing would have reason for saying that is that if there is given me greater pleasure than to have one thing which the people of any country supported Mr. Reid, had he taken what admire more than another, it is consist­ I conceived to be the right course in ency on the part of public men. There is connection with this movement. If he had always a disposition in humanity to for­ done so, and if Mr. Barton had taken the give a man if he makes a mistake, if he is opposite course, I should have supported thought to be honest and wishes to be Mr. Reid without the slightest hesitation. consistent. I would ask, can any man de­ I place this movement above everything fend the position which the Premier took else. I fear that federation has been virtu­ up before the country when the Conven­ ally killed by the action of the men who tion Bill was being debated when he said have opposed the bill. They have de­ that he would vote for the bill, and yet used stroyed the freest and most democratic all his great ability to destroy the reputa- constitution the world has ever seen. I am [.Lifr. Waddell. Governor's Speech :. [22 JuNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 115 sorry to say there is now very little chance the benefit of tl1e settlers. The hon. of getting federation fot· many. years to member for Hay knows as well as any come, owing to the action taken by public other bon. member that the present state men and newspapers in this colony against of the settlers on the soil is most deplorable. the constitution submitted for approval. What with drought, taxation, and low But while there is any hope of getting prices, those who ought to be the back­ federation, I shall always fight for it, and bone of the country are to day depressed I shall always fight for it under the leader­ and in the hands of the banks and the ship of the man who I believe is most storekeepers. It is all very well to put honestly trying to bring it about. these statements in the Governor's speech, 1\Ir. T. FITZPATRICK (Tho Murrum­ but the Government will never go any bidgee) [10·52]: No one regreis more than further with these proposals. They will I do the abuse, and not arguments, used leave the selector still to struggle with all in this House. There is an old saying that his difficulties. I want the Government to abuse is not argument, and we had painful take some action, as they promise to do in experience of that last night when language thst vital part of the Governor's speech. not creditable to Parliament was uttered. Let us now see what the Secretary for :Mines The Government have been charged with and Agriculture has to ~ay in this speech. not having called Parliament together In the 15th paragraph he refers to at an earlier date. I consider their action the striking benefits conferred upon the occu­ in that matter was the most commendable piers of the soil by the working of agricultural of any they have taken. They left the colleges. people to decide the question of federation How very beneficial these agricultural col­ apart from any party squabbles in this leges are to the general public l Last night Chamber. The bon. member for Hay knows an hon. member complimented the country that four years ago I advocated federa­ on its prosperity. Newcastle must be in tion, and I have believed in it ever since, a most prosperous condition if he can com­ and while I have a vote, oven though as pliment the country on its prosperity. It a humble elector, I shall be a federalist. is all very well for the Secretary for Mines It is said that we are prepared to swallow and Agri~ulture to spread agricultural col­ the bill, the whole bill, and nothing but the leges in favourite electorates. bill. I say unhesitatingly that if I cannot Mr. s. s~liTH : The hon. member wants get a better bill I am prepared to accept it; one in his electorate ! but I do not see any hope of federation while Mr. T. FITZPATRICK: And I will the present Government sits on the benches. take care that the hon. member will not No one listened with greater pleasure to the get one at Bathurst until we get one at hon. member for Hay than I did to-night. Coolamon. It is all very well for him to He made the best speech that has been squander the public money on model farms. made, and that probably will be made, but The hon. gentleman has a conference every at the same time he could not let slip the six months. He brings people down from opportunity of ridiculing and bringing dis­ the country on free paEses to attend his credit on Mr. Barton. Mr. Barton is a conferences, and he takes the people down man who to-day stands in a most honor­ the harbour and gives them a holiday just able and enviable position. He is the hope to obtain a little cheap popularity for of united Australasia, and has the confi­ himself. Who pays the expenses of these dence of the whole people. There is no conferences 7 No wonder that there is a doubt that he is the head of the political deficiency in the Treasury. No wonder l:Ne of New South Wales, and, I believe, that we cannot get any money from the of Australia. I am prepared to follow that Government to make tanks in the country. hon. gentleman, to fight for him, and I am No wonder that we cannot get any money prepared to go to the country with him. when this Minister brings people down 1\ir. Barton will be the foremost tigure in from the country on free passes, treats the Australian nation. vVe have heard a them with champagne, and takes them great deal said about the subjects men­ about the harbour in steam launches. The tioned in the Governor's speech. I will conferences are of no benerit whatever to refer to the 13th clause, which deals with the country. Did we not on two occasions settlement on the land and legislation for have a conference on the rabbit question, Second nigl~t. 116 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. lasting for a week or more 1 We were to who know what to do with the scrub; have a bill drafted, and I believe it was they should allow them to cut it for their drafted, but where is it now 1 The model own benefit. The Government are ruin­ farms are, as a rule, very badly managed. ing the country by scrub-cutting. No economy seems to be practised in con­ Mr. s. s~nTH : N 0 one will take it with nection with them. We see great displays the scrub upon it! of their produce at agricultural shows, but Mr. T. FITZPATRICK : They would hon. members do not know what it costs. if the Government would let them have it Some of them will be surprised when I tell upon proper terms. I would strongly them that, in some instances, every bushel of ad vocate the establishment of model farms wheat grown will be found tohavecosta.bout all over the country. Hon. members may 30s. \Ve find the sons of successful mer­ ask where are we to get the money with chants, and other favoured individuals from which to carry them on. Well, why not large cfmtres of population, admitted to borrow it if necessary ? I advocate a these agricultural colleges; but how many vigorous system of water consenation. I unfortunate farmers, or the sons of per­ consider that in a country like this the sons who are struggling on the soil, are question of the conservation of water ir-; admitted to them? I regard the country as one of great importance. We ought to being robbed for the sake of a few fa vom·ed make canals for irrigation purposes. · vV e individuals. are allowing the great natural wealth which Mr. 8. SMITH : Did not the bon. mem­ the co~mtry possesses to flow away to the ber ask me to receive a deputation in re­ se?. year after year. '\Ve heat· now and gard to the establishment of a model farm then about the ri,·er quclstion, and we find at Coolamon 1 that there is a gr,at traffic on our rivers, Mr. T. FITZPATRICK: I did not, but but up to the present time what have we I may yet ask for the establishment of a done to improve our rivers? We have done farm there if they are to be perpetuated in nothing but simply let them go to waste. other parts of the colony. Some bon. mem­ Our rivers ought to he put to some use. bers have said that the present Govern­ vVe might impro,-e the navigation of the ment haYe done a quantity of useful work. rivers by making locks on them, and we I suppose we are to include in that cate­ might divert the waters in flood time into gory the shifting of sand at the Centennial artificial lakes, by which mf'ans we could Park, and the work at the Sewage Farm at store it for years. Botany. With regard to the scrub-cutting, l\Ir. LYNE.: Did not the !ton. member I regard that as one of the worst works enr vote to give the rivers away 1 undertaken hy a Government in this coun­ Mr. T. FITZPATRICK: No; I did try. Scrub-cutting is most injudicious work. not. I voted for the Federal Bill, and I The Secretary for Lands ought to know will vote for it again if I ever have the that where one scrub is cut ten will grow. chance. I think, however, that another Money has been wasted on scrub-cu~tting generation will. spring up before we get which might have been spent on remunera­ another bill. H we are noG inclimd to u~e tive relief works. If the Government had the rivers ourselves we had better let other spent the money which has been wasted people use them. on sand-shifting and scrub-cutting, in An RoN. MEMBER: South Australia making tanks and conserving water in wants our rivers for navigation ! Riverina, that portion of the colony would Mr. T. FITZPATRICK: Tlu'y have as not have been in the deplorable condition much right to them as we have. They are in which it. is to day. If the money had not New South \Vales rivers ; they are been spent on water conservation and the Australian rivers. If you will not feder­ construction of railways, the Government ate let us do something to help ourselves. would have conferred a benefit upon the I hope that the Premier will see his way people of the colony for all time, and the to take action with regard to the utilisa­ country would have been in a smiling and tion of the rivers of New South \Vales. I blooming condition. I wish to impress am sorry to say that he does not know the upon the Government the idea that the geography of the count.t·y; he did not know sooner they discontinue scrub-cutting the where the source of the Darling was. He better. They should let the land to men said that the rher took its rise in New . [Mr. T. Fitzpat1·ick. Governor's Speech: [22 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 117

South \Vales, but the fact is that it comes sented equally on the convention. Then, from Queensland. He did not know where again, we have great difference of opinion the Murrumbidgee came from. I hope that with reference to some of the most vital we shall not longer have the waste of provisions incorporated in the Convention money on frivolous works which has been Bill. The Governor's speech has given us going on, but that we shall have permanent some idea of the amendments proposed to and useful works carried out that will be be effected, if we have an opportunity of a benefit to the country in the future. making them before federation becomes Mr. J. C. L. FlTZP A TRICK (Rylstone) an accomplished fact. Looking at the [11·19): In view of tire fact that so much attitude adopted at the convention by the abuse has been heaped upon those mem­ various delegates from New South Wales, bers who ventured to vote for the amend­ it is only fair that reference should be made ing bill when it was brought before the to the stand taken by the hon. member who House, I think it is only right and justi­ leads the Opposition. It would be unfair able on the part of every one who sup­ to pass over such an exhibition of consist­ ported that bill that he should express his ency as was given by the hon. member for opinion, and give some reason for the The Hume on that convention. No one attitude he adopted on that occasion. As will fail to admit that the hon. gentleman far as I am personally concerned, I would fought as valiantly and as vigorously to willingly l1ave voted for a minimum of preserve the interests of New South Wales more than 80,000, and I will give my rea­ as any man who sat in the convention. sons. \V e have been told by the Sydney This question of equal representation, I Morning He1·ald that something like 61 think, may be passed over, provided the per cent. of the electors whose names ap­ majority of the people, in the longrun, have peared on the roll cast their votes at the the opportunity of compelling those who last general election. Some eight elector­ are in power to respect their wishes and ates were not contested, and seeing that their desires. \VG may concede equal repre­ 61 per cent. was the average voting power sentation for the purpose of bringing about at the contested elections, it would be only federation, provided we have some safe­ 1ight to include in those eight electorates guard, by the medium of which the majority the number which would be represented of the people in. the Australian colonies by 61 per cent., and add it to the total may, in the long run, have the opportunity number of votes actually cast. This would of seeirig their wishes and desires carried bring the voting power up to something into effect. On those conditions we can like 230,000. On a great movement of afford to let the principle of equal represen­ this kind, not brought into existence for tation go. As long as the people of New a year or two, just as free-trade or pro­ South Wales and Australia generally are tection is brought into existence, but afforded the opportunity of having majority which is to last for all time, I contend rule incorporated in the constitution, I that an absolute majority of the people am sure that the opposition which has who are accustomed to cast their votes at been voiced throughout New South ·wales a general election should vote. Therefore, against this measure will to a great extent 80,000, as a matter of fact, would not fall to the ground, and that the people who represent a fair majority. But seeing voted so strongly on the 3rd .T nne. last that the House in its wisdom determined against the bill will be prepared to accept to accept the 80,000, it is out of place for it as far as that provision is concerned. The those who have been blackguarding and hon. member for· Hay dealt with a matter abusing the members who supported that not referred to in the Governor's speech. provision, at the present juncture, to claim That is the difficulty associated with getting that majority rule should operate as far as an amendment of the constitution as far the recent referendum was concerned. I as the last provisions of the bill are con­ think myself, and the opinion has been cerned. We have been told by a man who expressed by other hon. members who has paid particular attention to the ques­ have spoken on this question, that the tion of constitutional government that great mistake was made in the first in­ government in the past has been a fossil stance by allowing all the colonies, irre­ but that it should be a live thing, meaning, spective of their population, to be repre- of course, that government has been a dead, Second niglbt. 118 Governors Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply. inanimate thing in the past, whereas, as a One of the reasons which actuated quite a matter of fact, it should be alive, growing, number of people in New South Wales in and capable of expansion. opposing the bill was that they felt that it Mr. LYNE : The power of amendment would compel them to dip their lmnds into should not be too easy ! their pockets to fork out coin, not only to Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : I quite meet their own obligations, but to make agree with the bon. gentleman; but, on solvent a number of states. I am sure that the other hand, it should not be made too that simple circumstance induced quite a difficult. We find that as far as altera­ number of people to pursue the tactics tions to the constitution are concerned, which they did in giving their most dire provision is made, in the first instance, and violent opposition to the bill. I believe that any proposed amendment shall be that the insistence of a certain number of carried by an absolute majority of both affirmative votes at the referendum was a houses of the federal parliament-that it very grave mistake. If that provision had shall be carried by an absolute majority been left out of the enabling bill in the of the aggregate number of voters in the first instance I am quite confident that the five different colonies that proposed to be­ Convention Bill would not have received come portions of the union. \V hen we find the large amount of support and the num­ these two particular principles adopted ber of votes it has done. Quite a number and adhered to, I think that should be of people who were diametrically opposed quite sufficient to ensure the insertion in to the acceptance of the bill laboured under the constitution of any amendment of any very erroneous impressions with reference reasonable character; but we find we have to that vote. Numbers of men came to to go further, as far as this provision is the conclusion that 80,000 votes could not concerned, for not only is it provided that be polled by the federation-at-any-price an absolute majority of both houses of the party, and, therefore, they refrained from federal parliament must be secured, and voting on the 3rd June. A number of also an absolute majority of the aggregate others laboured under this impression: that voters of the five colonies, but we find that if the federal party secured 80,000 votes, there must be an absolute majority secured then, notwithstanding the number of nega­ in a majority of the states. We know that, tive votes, whether it might be an absolute as far as the great bulk of the people of majority or not, the bill would be an accom­ the five colonies are concerned, the ma­ plished fact. These two circumstances in jority of them may be de.sirous of securing themselves militated to a very material an amendment to meet the altered con­ extent against the rejection of the bill by ditions which would be brought about, a very large majority. perhaps, in the course of ten or twenty Mr. ·WILLIS: ---- years ; but because of the circumstance Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : It was that this particular amendment did not very plainly put, I am willing to admit; commend itself to the voters in the three but I know that men who profess to be smaller colonies, they would be able to intelligent voted in the opposite direction stay the will of the great majority of the from that in which they intended to vote. people, and prevent an amendment which I guarantee that in electorates I know well might be instrumental and absolutely es­ one hundred men voted under a misappre­ sential to the proper development of united hension, and voted in an opposite direc­ Australia. I do not profess to know much tion from that in which they intended to about figures ; I am just about able to vote when they entered the polling booth. finance myself. I can manage to do that; No doubt the bill has been thrashed out but I question whether a number of the to a very considerable extent, and most gentlemen who have been making such a people who read the newspapers, and take boast about their knowledge of finance note of current politics, have pretty well throughout the length and breadth of New come to a conclusion as to what its main South Wales, and who have pointed out propositions were. I think a very great that the Braddon clause was a clause injustice has been done to a number of which any man, any body of men, any firm, men who have had the courage of their or any united nation could accept, are able convictions, who, whilst believing implicitly to finance themselves at the present time. in the necessity for some federal system [Mr. J. C. L. Fitzpatrick. GtJ1xrno1·' s Speech : [22 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 119 being established, felt it incumbent upon Mr. CHANTER: vVhat warrant has the them to oppose the Convention Bill. Men hon. member for that statement·? may be called provincialists for taking up Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : The that position. It may be said that a num­ warrant of the Sydney Mo·rning Herald~ ber of men, particularly in this Parliament, It was stated that Mr. Barton had gone· were looking after the interests of New so far as to say that he was not desirous South vV ales more than the interests of of going to the country on the question of united Australia. But, notwithstanding thrusting the bill, the· whole bill, and the fact that such statements may be made, not.hing but the bill, down the throats of I hold that there was no justification for the people of New South Wales; but that the hurling of all the shafts of ridicule and he was prepared to accept anything in the abuse at a number of men who, whatever shape of prope.r amendment. I say that, course they adopted, were just as honestly if there be anything which justifies the actuated by a desire to do good to this action of those who opposed the bill-and colony as those who were beating the big the bill is generally admitted to contain drums of federation, and were prepared to some most objectionable provisions-I say accept federation at any price, and irre­ it is the action of Mr. Barton, in practically spective. of what it meant to generations going back upon the measure. We may be yet unborn. charged with not being federalists, but I Mr. WILLIS: There was a good deal of say that if we have to accept federation in. abuse on the other side ! a crude and objectionable form it is much Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : I am better that we should delay the acceptance not abusing these persons at all ; but at of federation until we have an opportunity one of the very first meetings which was to get a bill which can be fairly amended~ held it was suggested that certain men in and which will, furthermore, be in touch or this House were opposing the bill because keeping with the ideas and aspirations of they were afraid of their seats. It was this community. I think one or two other suggested that the fear of the loss of the amendments might have been contained in £6 a week of emolument attaching to a the Governor's speech ; for instance, pro­ position here actuated men in opposing vision might have been included for an this particular measure. When that sug­ easier amendment of the constitution. I gestion was made, not after the battle had thoroughly agree with most of the other commenced, not when men were in the amendments suggested. As regards the heat and trial of a hard fight, but at the proposed reappraisement of conditional pur-. initiation of the movement when there chases, it is a proposal which will be hailed was no justification whatever for indulging with a great deal of satisfaction by a large in harsh words, w hert such an attitude as number of men who have gone on to the soil that was adopted, I think it is time some in this colony. It has been an acknow­ of those who were victims of such treat­ ledged fact for a considerable time that ment carne forward and disavowed any some proposal in this direction should have desire in the direction indicated and hurled been laid before Parliament, and should back the challenge into the teeth of those have become law long since. Those who who made it. I do not wish to retaliate originally took up land in this colony paid in any shape or form, or to suggest that the £1 an acre which was then declared any other than honest motives actuated to be its value, and obtained in a great those who were desirous of taking this bill · many instances good bargains. But more under any circumstances. But I do say recent selectors, who have had to go into this : that if there be one thing more than nooks and crannies on mountain sides for another which justifies the action adopted holdings of any size whatever, have had by those who opposed this bill in the in­ in many instances to take up 40 acres terests not only of New South Wales but of of rock and 10 acres of land, and they united Australia, it is the particular circum­ have had to pay £1 per acre for the land stance that the gentleman who first endea­ without deriving anything in the shape voured to thrust this bill down the throats of decent advantage from their purchase. of the people of New South Wales is quite It is only right that some readjustment of prepared at present to cast it aside and to the conditions under which they are able go so far as to suggest certain amendments. to take up land should be brought about. Second night. 120 Gove1·nor's Speech: (ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

I think that if the Secretary for Lands Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : Why, pursues the course be propose~ to adopt in we can see the traces of the hon. mem­ connection with this particular question he ber's feet all over the departmental corri­ will earn the gratitude of a very large dors. I may state that there are certain number of people in New South \Vales Government departments in Sydney, in who have been placed upon the soil. The which I have never been during the time leader of the Opposition last night, when I have been in Parliament. I am of I made what I conceived to be a harmless opinion that there is a most decided im­ interjection-and I certainly did not in­ provement in the prosperity of the colony. tend it to be offensive·-made a statement I could prove it out of the mouths of men to the effect-and I refer to it simply be­ on the opposite side of the House, if I cause it may be calculated to do one a cared to introducequotationsfrom speeches, little injury, and I am sure that the hon. letters, and various sources to which I 1pember did not intend that it should­ have had access during the last two years. that some years ago I contested a cer­ There is a decided improvement in indus­ tain constituency as a protectionist candi­ tries, in commerce, and in agriculture. date. There are hon. members in the This is proved by the condition of things House who have known me for a consider­ that exists at the present time. I do not able time, and they know that whatever my propose to go into a speech on free-trade faults and failings may be, one of them is and protection, because we 11,re told that not that I have been a shuffier. I have the next election will not be fought out n~ver in any shape or form been associated upon any other question than that of with the protectionist party. I have been federation. I am loth to believe that a free-trader ever since I have had the federation is at present such a vital ques­ opportunity of knowing the difference be­ tion that no other matter is going to be tween free-trade and protection, and whether obtruded upon the attention of the electors I am right or wrong I still adhere as tena­ but that particular pet subject, in refer­ ciously as ever I did to the principles ence to which a number of gentlemen are which I have been brought up to believe beating drums to draw people's attention. are correct and just. Under the circum­ \Vhen reference is made to the improve­ stances I think those who are sitting here ment of the country, to the circumstance will feel that I am justified in referring to that industry is becoming better, that a this matter, and in giving a straight and larger area of land is being put under crop, rigid disclaimer to any assertion to the that our factories are becoming more effect that I have gone back upon prin­ numerous, that more of the manhood of ciples in which I once professed to be­ the country is being employed, we gener­ lieve. As far as the condition of the ally find from one or two individuals-I do country is concerned, with all clue respect not say from the whole of the Opposition, to hon. members opposite who are ready­ because I believe they would all hail with ! do not say dishonestly-to paint it in delight anything in the shape of improve­ less glowing colours than do the free·trade ment in the prosperity of the country­ party, I have come to the conclusion that but we find that by a few jaundiced indi­ there is certainly a very great improve­ viduals the prosperity of the country is ment in all directions. decried. I could quote from the reports Mr. T. FITZPATRICK: The hon. mem­ of different labour unions to show that ber has got a lot of Government money ·there is a decided improvement as far as spent in his electorate ! the shearers are concerned. Last year, Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : I do for the first time for five years, the shearers not trouble the public treasury very much. were afforded an opportunity to get an No minister can say that I am in the habit increased price for their work. of going to the various departments beg­ An HoN. ~iE;\IBER : \Vhere was that ? ging for money. I do not believe there Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : I am is a member of the House who has been not a shearer, and I can only depend upon less to the Government departments during reports that emanate from the Shearers' t.he last three years than I. Union of Australasia. Their secretary says Mr. WILLIS : I do not know my way distinctly that an improvement had been into them 1 effected as far as wages were concerned,

1 [Mr. J. 0. L. Fitzpatrick. .Address in Reply. [22 JUNE, 1898.) .Adjournment. 121 that the £1 per hundred sheds had been in­ feeding. Reference has been made to the creased to a material extent, and, as re­ agricultural college system. I do not gards employment, that there were fewer propose to speak on this question, as I in­ men with swags travelling round the coun­ tend to do, because in the district in which try in search of work than he had known I happen to live there is an agricultural for four years. I have" also the statement college; but I say .this much, that .through of an authority who would not be-inclined the medium of that agricultural college - to make untrue statements, and who is Mr. T. FITZPATRICK : A great amount brought into close contact from time to of money has been spent there ! time with those who are looking for em­ Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : The ployment, who. is associated with that in­ money ,that has been spent has been infi­ dustry, and who is as coppetent to speak nitesimal compared with the advantages as .~ny man who confines his attention which have accrued to the farmers of New absolutely to the city. Then, as regards . South Wales. When we see in conne-ction the employment of our able-bodied popula­ with this college that it is attended by.the tion, the Government Statistician of Vic­ sons of men not only inNew South Wales,· toria-a man who will not tell a lie to QReensland, and Victoria, but by the sons benefit New South Wales, or the party of men from places so remote as New that happens to be in power inNew South Caledonia and South Africa, I think it is Wales-we have it on his authority that one of the best testimonials to the useful­ though, as regards the number of men, ness of an institution of that kind that we women, and boys employed in factories can possibly secure. I must congratulate New South Wales is 400 behind Victoria, the Secretary for Mines and Agriculture there are over 5,000 more males employed on the activity and industry he has dis­ in the factories here than in Victoria. played, and the enterprise he has mani­ Mr. WILLIS: \Vhat does the hon. mem­ fested on many occasions. It is from ber call a factory-pruning the Bogan agriculture in the first instance that the scrub, or shifting sand ~ people of e•·ery country must expect to· Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK: In Vic­ secure their primary prosperity. 'When we toria, a place where five hands are em­ have institutions of this character brought ployed constitutes a factory. Formerly, into existence which _enable men not only in New South Wales, the employment of to go upon a piece of .land and dig and four ·hands constituted a factory. But the delve with main strength and stupidity, year before last, by an arrangement be­ but which will be instr:umental in enabling tween the stati~;ts of the two colonies, the them io determine upon tl1e best means of practice was made uniform by the adop­ obtaining the largest crops from the soil ; tion here of the system in Victoria. In although the cost may be great in the first Victoria, at the expiration of last year, instance, the good results achieved will the number of hands employed in fac­ more than compensate for all the expense tories was 50,096, and in New South which has to be incurred.· If the Secretary Wales the number was 49,609, the calcu­ for Mines and Agriculture had only done lation being on the same basis. There is, that particular thing during the whole therefore, a difference of only 400 hands course of his ministerial existence in estab­ in favour of Victoria. But in Victoria lishing 'this agricultui·al college and spread­ there- are 12,7 54 females employed, while ing model farms- throughout the length in New South Wales the. number is 6,932. and breadth of New South Wales, lie is In Victoria; there \ver"e' ?·7,342,n?-ale bands entitled to the thanks and good opinion €mployed, and in New. South. Wales of the great bulk of the people of this 42,677. Seeing that in Victoria for the colony. last twenty years they have had the ad­ Motion (by Mr. GRIFFITH) agreed to: vantage of a protectionist policy, that That this debate be now adjourned. policy, if it is as bmeficent as its advo­ cates claim, should have brought about a ADJOURNMENT. different state of things. New South WITNESSES AT INQUESTS-CIVIL SERVANTS AND vVales hasbeen able in the matter of fac­ FEDERATION. tories to hold her own without the aid of Motion (by Mr. BRUNKER) proposed: anything in the shape of "pap " or spoon- That this House do now adjourn, K 122 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY. J Major-General French.

1\'Ir. EDDEN (Kahibah) [11·59] : I de­ a part in the discussion of what must be a sire to bring under the notice of the Go­ great national movement, and I do ask the vernment a matter respecting which I do Colonial Secretary, who is always fair and not suppose I will get a reply. I mention just, to see that every civil servant has it because it may be my· last opportunity the right to proclaim himself for or against of doing so, and I do so at the request of the measure, from the housetops if he likes. the Miners' Association. Some time ago If he will not do that, then let him debar I wrote and sent a letter from a certain :Mr. Coghlan and other highly-paid officials miners' lodge to the Attorney-General. I from interfering at all in the discussion of thought it was the proper place to send it. the question. I think they should all be It was in connection with the payment of allowed to haYe a free hand. witnesses who attend inquests. Several Question resolved in the affirmative. months have elapsed since I wrote the letter, and so far I have received no reply. House adjourned at 12·4 a.m. (Thursday). In 1892 I brought this matter under the notice of the House, and Sir George Dibbs promised that if it could be done by pass­ ing an Executive minute it should be done. !Legi~Iatine ltl%%embl1!. He did look into the matter, and from that day the jurymen, but not the wit­ Thursday, 23 June, 1898. nesses, have been paid. I need not point out to the Minister how hard it is for a Questions- Public Works Committee- l\Ittjor-Goncrai man to leave his work, perhaps the only French-Sessional Orders-Broken Hill Tra