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Legislative Council 20 March, 1991 COUNCIL 1273 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Wednesday, 20 March, 1991 The President took the chair at 2.30 p.m. The President offered the Prayers. PETITIONS Ermington Shopping Centre Petition praying that the House ensure the retention of the Department of Housing shopping centre at Betty Cuthbert Avenue, Ermington, received from the Hon. R. D. Dyer. Woolloomooloo Finger Wharf Petition praying that public money not be wasted demolishing the structurally sound finger wharf and establishing a walkway on the western side of Woolloomooloo Bay but instead that basic renovations be carried out on the wharf and an integrated multimedia arts centre be established, received from the Hon. R. S. L. Jones. GOVERNMENT MOTOR VEHICLES FOR CROSSBENCH MEMBERS Personal Explanation The Hon. M. R. Egan: I wish to make a personal explanation. Yesterday during question time the Leader of the Government in this House accused a former Premier, the Hon. Barrie Unsworth, of offering him a car and driver at a meeting discussing the then Government's proposals for reform of the Legislative Council. The Leader of the Government in this House asserted also that Iwas present at that meeting, and therefore by implication was accusing me of being a witness and a party to the offer. The fact is that at no meeting that I attended did the former Premier of New South Wales, the Hon. Barrie Unsworth, ever put a proposal to this Minister that the Government of the day would offer or give him a car and driver. I recall two meetings that I attended with the present Leader of the Government of this House, one on my own in his office, which is now the office of the Leader of the Opposition, the Hon. Jack Hallam, and another, when the Hon. Barrie Unsworth was Premier, in the Premier's office. They are the only two meetings that I attended with the Hon. E. P. Pickering and the Hon. Barrie Unsworth. I find it incredible that the Leader of the Government in this House should say that the Hon. Barrie Unsworth had called him to a meeting in the Premier's office and that the Leader of the Government would then trip over himself later in his answer to the question and say that the Hon. Barrie Unsworth then stormed out of the office. One does not storm out of one's office. That meeting that I attended with the Hon. E. P. Pickering and Mr Unsworth ended by the Hon. Barrie Unsworth becoming bored with what the honourable gentleman was saying, starting to watch the television COUNCIL 20 March, 1991 news program and forgetting all about the Hon. Ted Pickering, who then meandered off. It is true that on at least two occasions, though my memory could be faulty, the Hon. Ted Pickering did raise with me the question of the Government providing him with a car. Taxi Ted Pickering was always pleading for a car and driver. The reason he never got one was that the then Oppositionwas suppliedwith three cars, just as this Opposition is supplied with three cars. I think when we were previously in opposition we were supplied with three cars. What he could not get over was the fact that the three cars allocated to the Opposition at that time were all allocated to the lower House and his lower House colleagues, including the present Premier, would not give him one of them. That was his objection. Continually, for four years, Taxi Ted pleaded with me for a car to be provided to him. However, no such reference to a car was raised at any meeting- The Hon. E. P. Pickering: On a point of order. I have been very constrained because of the substance of the honourable member's explanation, but he has obviously strayed well beyond the standing orders with regard to a personal explanation. The IIon. M. R. Egan: I have said everything I need to say. CONSTITUTION (LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL) AMENDMENT BILL CONSTITUTION (REFERENDUM) BILL Second Reading Debate resumed from 19th March. The IIon. ELISABETH KIRKBY [2.39]: As Leader of the Australian Democrats in New South Wales, I support the Constitution (Legislative Council) Amendment Bill. This bill has the simple intent of reducing the Legislative Council from 45 to 42 members immediately after the holding of a referendum, if that referendum is successful. This will mean that the Council will consist of a total of 42 members from the time of the State election which is due to be held by June 1992. The term of a Council is also to be reduced from three terms to two terms of the Legislative Assembly. In future, if the referendum is successful, instead of 15 members being elected at each election, 21 members will be elected. To permit reconstitution of the House immediately after the next State election, the bill provides that the last three members elected in 1984 and the last nine members elected in 1988 will not serve their full terms-three terms of the Legislative Assembly. Instead they will lose their seats after only two terms. The latter fact seems to have been conveniently forgotten by some critics. Another fact that is not being strongly enough emphasised is that this situation can come into effect only if it has been approved by the citizens of New South Wales at a referendum. When the Government first moved to change the composition of the Council, it was proposed to reduce the size of the House to 40 members, with 20 being elected at each election. On that occasion I attacked the proposal because it would have been possible for any party to win half the seats with less than half the vote. This would have had extremely grave implications for the upper House by making it much easier for either major party to control the House. Indeed the Legislative Council could then have 20 March, 1991 COUNCIL 1273 returned to being a rubber-stamp. Once this fact is realised, it is quite easy to understand why the Australian Labor Party was seeking to amend the bill so that the House would comprise 40 members. That was its original intention, and then there was some suggestion that it might move an amendment so that the House would comprise 41 members. The Australian Labor Party is desperate to return to the situation where the Legislative Council is a rubber-stamp. The Government acknowledged the justice of my concern and had the bill redrafted. If 21 members are to be elected at each election, 50 per cent of the vote will be needed to win 11 seats, and to me that is a much more just outcome. I am sorry, however, that my attempt failed to get 46 members in this Chamber, to allow 23 members to be elected at each election. If it had succeeded, quite obviously much of the discussion, dissension, innuendo and slander that has been put about over the past week would have been avoided. However, I am firmly of the opinion that the redrafted bill is a fair and balanced attempt to reform the New South Wales Legislative Council. Other members of this House have called this bill disgraceful, both inside and outside this Chamber. They have stated that I am thinking of my own self-interest in supporting this bill. I categorically reject any such suggestion. I agreed to support the bill once the bias against minor and third parties was removed, with the Government agreeing to the size of the House being reduced to 42 members, the odd number of 21 members being elected on each occasion. This change will benefit not just the Democrats, and it cannot be claimed to benefit me personally. It will benefit any small party or any interest group with a following in the community sufficient to warrant the election of its members. I refer to such groups as the Green Alliance, which stood in 1988; the team that was put up by the Total Environment Centre, headed by Milo Dunphy; and other responsible groups in the community. The Opposition has asked why the Government has changed its position from that contained in the 1991 bill. My opinion is that it has realised the justice of my concerns expressed at that time. Yesterday there was much discussion about the terms of the agreement with the Government. I wish to place it on record again, as I did yesterday, that I have always been motivated by a desire to improve the health of the New South Wales electoral process. I have attempted to deal with the proposal to reduce the number of members of the Legislative Assembly and the proposal to reform the Legislative Council as one package. I have been seeking to restore the propriety of the electoral process. Once again I categorically reject any suggestion that I have been bought off. The electoral process has been manipulated and was manipulated immediately prior to the last State election in a desperate attempt by the Unsworth Government to restrict the electoral process to the major parties by making it extremely difficult for minor parties and Independents to run for either the Legislative Assembly or the Legislative Council. On that occasion I strenously opposed the amendments moved by the Australian Labor Party, and since then I have continued to work to have those amendments removed. A suggestion has been put forward that one of the arguments against this bill is that the Parliament does not have the power to abolish itself. Those opposed to this bill originally attempted to just@ their opposition by arguing that as a principle the Legislature cannot pass a bill abolishing part of itself while those seats are still legitimately occupied.
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