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Inquiry Into the Conduct of the Honourable Franca Arena Mlc

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Inquiry Into the Conduct of the Honourable Franca Arena Mlc No. 404c PARLIAMENT OF NEW SOUTH WALES LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE AND ETHICS REPORT ON INQUIRY INTO THE CONDUCT OF THE HONOURABLE FRANCA ARENA MLC Ordered to be printed 29 June 1998, according to Resolution of the House TRANSCRIPTS Report No. 6 June 1998 Vol. 3 OF 3 Committee Membership The Hon Dr Meredith Burgmann, MLC Australian Labor Party Chair The Hon Jenny Gardiner, MLC National Party The Hon Charlie Lynn, MLC Liberal Party The Hon John Johnson, MLC Australian Labor Party The Hon Richard Jones, MLC Independent The Hon Anthony Kelly, MLC Australian Labor Party The Hon Andrew Manson, MLC Australian Labor Party Revd the Hon Fred Nile, MLC1 Christian Democratic Party The Hon Peter Primrose, MLC2 Australian Labour Party SECRETARIAT Ms Lynn Lovelock Clerk to the Committee Ms Velia Mignacca Senior Project Officer Mr Daniel Noll Committee Officer Legal advisers for this Inquiry: Mr Bernard Gross QC Mr Joe Catanzariti, Clayton Utz, Solicitors 1 From 25 November 1997 (Legislative Council Minutes of Proceedings No. 20, 25 November 1997) 2 From 25 November 1997 (Legislative Council Minutes of Proceedings No. 20, 25 November 1997) Table of Contents 17 DECEMBER 1997 MR PETER RYAN, POLICE COMMISSIONER ............................................ 1 21 DECEMBER 1997 MR ALEX MITCHELL, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE SUN-HERALD ................................. 15 5 MARCH 1998 THE HON FRANCA ARENA, MLC ...................................... 41 16 MARCH 1998 THE HON FRANCA ARENA, MLC ..................................... 139 24 MARCH 1998 THE HON FRANCA ARENA, MLC ..................................... 189 6 APRIL 1998 THE HON FRANCA ARENA, MLC ..................................... 257 15 MAY 1998 COMMANDER CLIVE SMALL ....................................... 331 23 JUNE 1998 MR PHILIP TAYLOR, LEGAL ADVISER TO MRS ARENA ................... 353 17 December 1997 MR PETER RYAN COMMISSIONER OF POLICE PRESENT The Hon. Dr Meredith Burgmann, MLC (Chair) The Hon. Jennifer Gardiner, MLC The Hon. John Johnson, MLC The Hon. Richard Jones, MLC The Hon. Anthony Kelly, MLC The Hon. Charles Lynn, MLC The Hon. Andrew Manson, MLC The Revd the Hon. Fred Nile, MLC The Hon. Peter Primrose, MLC STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE AND ETHICS CHAIRMAN: I remind members of the Legislative Council who are in the gallery that Standing Order 251 states: Any Members of the House may be present when a Select Committee is examining Witnesses, but shall withdraw when the Committee is deliberating, if so requested. Members of the Legislative Council are welcome but they cannot take part in the proceedings. The Committee has resolved that for the purposes of this inquiry Mrs Arena be allowed to have identified legal advisers in attendance with her all in camera proceedings, subject to the discretion of the Committee. The Hon. FRANCA ARENA: Could I speak to that, Madam Chair? I have received a letter from you which states that I am not entitled to take legal advice until I get authorisation from the President, which I did not receive. That is why I am on my own. CHAIRMAN: The letter was quite clear; you can have legal representation, but it will not be paid for until authorised. The Hon. FRANCA ARENA: When will it be authorised? The Clerk: The Committee is awaiting an answer from the Treasurer. The Committee has written to the President who, on the same day, wrote to the Treasurer. We have not yet received any confirmation, but we are following up the matter. I imagine a reply will be received in the next day or so. The Hon. FRANCA ARENA: I would like to have legal representation on Tuesday but if my legal adviser is not to be paid I cannot afford to have him. CHAIRMAN: We will take up that issue at a later time. **************************** PETER JAMES RYAN, Commissioner of Police, New South Wales, Police Headquarters, College Street, Darlinghurst, sworn and examined: CHAIRMAN: In what capacity are you appearing before the Committee? Commissioner RYAN: As Commissioner of Police. CHAIRMAN: Did you receive a summons issued under my hand in accordance with the provisions of the Parliamentary Evidence Act 1901? Commissioner RYAN: I did, yes. COMMISSIONER PETER RYAN: 17 DECEMBER 1997 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE AND ETHICS CHAIRMAN: Are you conversant with the terms of reference of this inquiry? Commissioner RYAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN: Do you have a written submission? Commissioner RYAN: No. CHAIRMAN: Do you wish to make a short statement? Commissioner RYAN: No. CHAIRMAN: The questions to be asked by Committee members are aimed at clearing up any ambiguity in your report and to seek your advice on further matters. The Committee has resolved to allow your aide, Superintendent Grahame Smith, to be present during the in camera proceedings. Have you made any assessment of all of the documents tabled by Mrs Arena on 21 October 1997? Commissioner RYAN: Yes, I have. CHAIRMAN: Have you examined all of the documents within the former special branch files which are relevant to the documents tabled by Mrs Arena? Commissioner RYAN: As far as possible. Some documents from the former special branch files—that is, documents in general—are still held by the Police Integrity Commission. Therefore, I have not been able to have access to those as yet. I do not know whether some of those documents still held by the Police Integrity Commission are relevant to this inquiry until I see them all. I do not think that they are. CHAIRMAN: In dealing with subsequent questions by Committee members would it be convenient to refer to those documents as the two sets of documents? Commissioner RYAN: It would, yes. CHAIRMAN: Are you aware that the terms of reference of the Special Commission of Inquiry held by Mr Nader, QC, concerned what was described as being claims by Mrs Arena to the following effect: first, that a meeting took place between the Premier, Mr Bob Carr, and the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Peter Collins, to plan the suppression of names of individuals allegedly being investigated by the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service; second, that the Premier and Justice Wood met and that "an agreement was reached to ensure that people in high places would not be named" in the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service; and, third, that a meeting took place between Premier Bob Carr, John Della Bosca and Terry Sheahan at Parliament House to plan the suppression of the names of individuals allegedly being investigated by the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service? 2 COMMISSIONER PETER RYAN: 17 DECEMBER 1997 STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE AND ETHICS Commissioner RYAN: Yes, I am aware of that. CHAIRMAN: Are you also aware that the Special Commission of Inquiry headed by Mr Nader, QC, was asked to inquire into and report on these claims and whether Mrs Arena had any evidence to support the claims which she made under parliamentary privilege? Commissioner RYAN: Yes, I am. CHAIRMAN: On page 4 of your report, under the heading "Conclusion" you stated: I have discovered nothing in the documents contrary to the findings of Mr Nader QC and his Special Commission of Inquiry. Are you aware that those findings include the conclusion on page 40 of the report of the Nader Special Commission of Inquiry which stated: Mrs Arena had no evidence, sufficient or otherwise, to support [the three claims which I have listed] or any part of them. Commissioner RYAN: Yes, I am. CHAIRMAN: Is the conclusion in your report, "I have discovered nothing in the documents contrary to the findings of Mr Nader QC and his Special Commission of Inquiry" one which results from an examination of all of the two sets of documents which you were required to assess and report upon? Commissioner RYAN: It is primarily in relation to the documents provided by Mrs Arena to Parliament. There was nothing in those documents that I found contrary to Nader's conclusions. As far as special branch files are concerned those were frozen way back in March 1997 when I disbanded the special branch. Consequently all the documents of the former special branch were held by the police royal commission and then the Police Integrity Commission; therefore nothing has been added to them since that date. Consequently there would have been nothing in those files which was relevant to the Nader inquiry. CHAIRMAN: What was that date? Commissioner RYAN: I cannot remember the exact date, but it was March 1997. CHAIRMAN: Do you understand that the terms of reference of this inquiry focuses attention upon whether Mrs Arena had a proper factual basis for the claims made by her in the Legislative Council on 17 September 1997? Commissioner RYAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN: For the purpose of assisting this Committee in performing that task, would you answer three specific questions based upon your assessment of the two sets of documents; that COMMISSIONER PETER RYAN: 17 DECEMBER 1997 3 STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE AND ETHICS is, the documents tabled by Mrs Arena and the documents contained within the former special branch files which are relevant to the documents tabled by Mrs Arena? Firstly, do these two sets of documents contain any evidence which would tend to prove that the following alleged conduct took place, namely, that a meeting took place between the Premier, Mr Bob Carr, and the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Peter Collins, to plan the suppression of names of individuals allegedly being investigated by the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service? Commissioner RYAN: No. CHAIRMAN: Secondly, do these two sets of documents contain any evidence which would tend to prove that the following alleged conduct took place, namely, that the Premier and Justice Wood met and that an agreement was reached to ensure that people in high places would not be named in the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service? Commissioner RYAN: No.
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