12 REFLECTIONS ON VICTORY: Interview with Bríd Smith TD Bríd Smith has been fighting for a woman’s right to choose since before the th8 Amendment was introduced in 1983. She played an important role in the recent referendum campaign, serving on the Committee that essentially framed the proposed legislation, advocating for repeal in the Dáil and on the media, speaking up and down the country, and organising on the streets. Irish Marxist Review was pleased to interview her about the campaign and the way ahead.

You have been campaigning for this our sails, with all the people honking for a long time. How personally do their horns and smiling and giving you feel about the victory on 25 you high fives. But when someone May? sitting not far from here rang me to Obviously for someone like myself tell me the exit polls I was surprised who has been campaigning on this by the size and absolutely thrilled. issue all my adult life there is a great I think the size of the victory was so sense of achievement, of joy indeed. important – it can’t be overstated. It There is a feeling of having defeated became clear that many of the ‘don’t the right wing fundamentalists who knows’ we feared might be silent made this their line in the sand and Nos were actually silent Yesses. who have been in the driving seat Choice had clinched it! It was also for so long. Those who assume ‘the superb that the vote was so good moral high ground’,vilify and shame in rural Ireland. This was not really women, and ignore the suffering of expected – it must have utterly women like Savita Halappannava, shocked and dismayed the anti- and Sheila Hodgers before her, choicers and it showed how much and all those who were forced to the country really has changed. travel and forced into exile. So now they have been pushed right back What are the main reasons, in your and women have the initiative,and opinion, for the resounding victory? I believe we can really go forward come out showing the gap narrowing Well I think it became more and now. There is a huge sense of and the ‘don’t knows’ increasing and more clear that this was an issue achievement in that. we started to worry. Also the anti- that had touched almost every choicers seemed to come out on top family personally. With over 117,000 Did the size of the victory surprise in the big TV debate on the Claire people exiled over the years this you? Byrne Show. But that was possibly had to be the case. Even if people Well it did and it didn’t. We had bets a turning point and certainly seems didn’t necessarily want to talk about on the outcome in the office and I to have inspired more people to it, they knew people – themselves, put a tenner on 65% for Yes but that come out and canvass. By the last their daughters, their mothers, their was before the campaign really got few days there was the sense on cousins, their friends etc – who going. Then opinion polls started to the streets that we had the wind in were affected. And as the campaign 13 progressed there was a gathering Well clearly not! Actually I think it principled pro-choice position) would momentum with people telling their was quite clever at the beginning – have called themselves Pro-Life. personal stories, this had a big very distasteful but clever. With all They were pushed by the movement affect. those images of foetuses floating in rather than leading it. They saw the I also thing the Yes campaign had a the ether, detached from any actual increasing numbers on the streets, huge impact through its canvassing. woman, and with lies about beating the mass marches for choice, the The canvass teams were magnificent hearts and being able to yawn and fantastic Strike4Repeal action on – very feminine, very young (though stretch it was designed to tug at International Women’s Day in 2017, of course a lot of men and older people’s heartstrings and play on the mood among students and people as well), very enthusiastic their ignorance. In the campaign young people, and they saw which and determined, and absolutely I think we were all worried for way the wind was blowing. They huge. This was true even in areas awhile that it might work but as the made a conscious decision to polish like Donegal and Leitrim, which were campaign went on and people more up their liberal image. quite tough to canvass, and despite and more informed themselves, it As neo-liberals and right wing some of the ‘messaging’ from the backfired big time. free marketeersthey had slashed top of the campaign, which was quite It was clear they had lots of money spending on education, on health, weak, the they came over brilliantly. from right wing fundamentalists on single parents and mental health. in America and the sort of people They had increased child poverty One of the people who told their who stood with horrific and ugly and made many women’s lives more story was you, Bríd. Was that a big banners outside hospitals. I miserable and more difficult for them deliberate decision or did it just think that damaged them a lot. to exercise real choice, but they happen? Also it became clear that all their sought to cover this reality up by Actually it just happened. I was doing concern for ‘the unborn’ vanished their ‘liberal’ stand on this issue. But a podcast at a feminist festival with the moment there was a living born I think their shallow liberalism will the journalist Róisín Ingle who had child. Not only was there the cruel be more and more exposed as the herself told her story previously, history of Magdalene Laundries and struggle for real choice and equality and two of the women on the the Mother and Baby Homes in the develops. panel spoke of their experiences past, but also the fact that none of Their support for Yes probably did of travelling for abortion. So it just these people had ever been seen help win over some ‘undecideds’ seemed natural to join in and do the on a protest about homelessness or but it also potentially damaged the same. I didn’t really think about it benefit cuts or education cuts. campaign.I think the attempt by the or the significance of me doing that In short, their campaign was ‘clever’ top of the Together 4 Yes to soften as a TD. But I think it did have an to start with, but it backfired. and limit the message to ‘care’, impact, a positive impact, because ‘compassion’ and ‘some personal I’m a TD and because so far I’m the A number of Government members decisions need public support’ was only TD to have stated that they have and prominent Fine Gaelers – Leo done in order to accommodate these had an abortion. I don’t think by the Varadkar, Simon Harris and Kate government people, along with some way, that I am the only one to have O’Connell for example – campaigned of the Labour right as well. This had an abortion, just the only one to for YES. What effect did this have? really weakened our arguments. But say so. Quite a lot of people have Well at the victory celebrations in this was overcome on the ground in thanked me for it and I hope it gave Castle there were people the mass movement, where talking people encouragementand helped to shouting ‘Good on you, Leo!’ and ‘I about choice came naturally to break down taboos. fancy Simon Harris’ and that sort people. And as the opinion polls of thing. But possibly less than a always suggested and the exit poll What do think of the NO campaign? year ago and Simon confirmed, it was the argument that Was it effective in its own terms? Harris (not Kate O’Connell who had a it was the woman’s choice that was

IRISH MARXIST REVIEW 14 decisive for the mass of people. canvassing, and in organising the We’ve already acted on this by taking canvassing. In area after area it busloads of campaigners to Belfast How do you think the media, was PBP comrades who were the in with our sisters there. especially RTE, performed in backbone of the campaign, who And for choice to be a reality for covering the campaign? did the hard work of preparing the working class women we have to At the beginning, say about a year maps and the leaflets, giving the fight for the right to housing, health ago, the left – people like myself, briefings and shepherding the huge and education in a positive way. Ruth Coppinger and Clare Daly canvass teams around the streets; Equality must include the fight for – were getting quite a lot of air- so that those who came out in such economic equality. time on programmes like the Late numbers, many of them for the Debate, The Week in Politics, even first ever political activity, found the How do you see the international Prime Time, but as the referendum experience a truly rewarding one. In impact of this result? approached the left were more and my area, for example, Dublin South The international impact will be big. more clearly carved out in favour of Central, these roles were played by There was huge international media mainstream establishment politi- my comrades Sean Carroll and Mary presence here during the campaign cians, including the . Smith, and others, and they did it and they thought it was particularly On one Tonight Show programme, brilliantly. And this was true in many interesting because it was a popular Labour TD stated that places across the country, so I’m vote rather than just being decided Labour was the only party to be con- really proud of all the comrades and by politicians, as is usually the sistently pro-Repeal. This was com- what they’ve achieved. case. It was the same with same pletely untrue – People Before Profit It has also put us at the heart of sex marriage as well, of course. We and Solidarity were both 100% pro the movement, which I hope will actually had a popular vote. – Repeal from the start but it went continue. Also abortion is a major international unchallenged on the programme. issue with the right wing in so many There was clearly a decision to mini- So where do we go from here? countries – like Poland for example mise the input of the left. Well first of all I think a lot of – trying to roll back the gains women The important Claire Byrne Show right wing backwoods men and have made. debate, which I’ve already referred backwoods women will try to Internationally there is a political to, was very badly handled. Whether obstruct and limit the legislation. polarisation to the right and the deliberately or by mistake the No They will try to attack and undermine left, and it is across the board on side were allowed to run away the provision of twelve weeks without austerity, workers rights, racism, with the debate and get more restriction; they are already looking militarism, and of course women’s contributions and much more time at conscientious objection clauses rights and LGBT+ rights. The far right than the Yes. The debates that for doctors and even for referrals and the fascists have always been followed were more balanced, but and whole institutions; and there deeply misogynist and hostile to the left were still cut out. may be attempts to filibuster the women’s rights, especially abortion legislation. So we are going to have rights. On the other hand, in country What was the experience of to maintain our networks from the after country we see women on the canvassing like? campaign and be ready to mobilise. rise with #MeToo, Women’s Strikes, The canvassing was brilliant and it And there are a host of issues that and Women’s Marches. So I hope was a really enjoyable experience. I need tackling like the Church control that our victory will serve as an have already talked about the size of schools, proper sex education, inspiration to the left and to women and enthusiasm of the canvassing the separation of Church and State, everywhere in the struggle for real teams but I also want to pay tribute the gender pay gap, and winning equality, which is an essential here to the role played by People a woman’s right to choose in the component of the struggle for Before Profit activists in getting out North. socialism.