[22 NovaFmass, 1012.] 37717 shown, not only as regairds railway con- The MINISTER FOR WORKS re- struction, which is the most outstanding plied: feature of our public workis, but in con- nection with public buildings and public Estimated Actual Cost to Area NO. Cost. date. works generally. good expedition has been shown during the last twelve months. I 3,9W60 73 2 3,t60 328M 3 4,10 3A28i This concluded the general debate on 4 6,500 4,657 the Estimates for the Minister for Works 05 8, 0 j 3,440, items were discussed as follows: All1accounts in connection with No. 5 Item, Fremantle Road Bridge--light- area are not yet to hand, inkg and maintenance, £350: Mr. NANSON: It was his desire to BILL-ELECf ORAL ACT direct attention to this item. AMENI)MENT. The Minister for Works: I do not pro- Repons Stage. pose to go into the question of roads and bridges to-night. The PREMIER (Hon. J. Scaddan) Progress reported. moved- That the report of the Committee be adopted. House adjourned at 10-2 p.m. It would bo remembered that on the previous day some confusion occurred owing to the amendment as submitted by the Attorney General not being found in the principal Act. The fault was due to the fact that instructions had been issued to the Crown Law Department for the compilation of the Electoral Bill in order to embody amendments made previously. They had not been em- bodied in the Acts that were here, and which were produced by the leader of' the Opposition and others, but they had legistative Bzm l been embodied in the Acts distributed. Friday, 22nd November, 1912. for public use. Therefore, the amend- ments which were made -wero in order. PAGE tisewerage Construction, Erenautle .. 3771 Hon. J. MITCHELL: We all viewed 2 A:iTl~ou ct Lmendment, Report stage; 3771 Agrical~tural Hanic AoLAmendmenit. Ia. ... '3771 with some concern any amendment to Victoria Patrk Tramways Act Amendment, 2n., Comn...... 773 the Electoral Act, and it was because of Annual Estimates, Votes and Itemsa discussed ... 77 that that members on the previous day were somewhat anxious to understand exactly what was happening. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 3-30 p.m., and read prayers. Question put and passed ; the report adopted.

QUESTION-SEWERAGE CONL STRL'OTION, FREMANTULE. BILL-AGRICULTURAL BANK ACT AMENDMENT. Air. CARPENTER asked the Min- ister for Works: What was the esti- Second Reading. mated and the actual cost of construction The MINISTER FORl LARDS (Hon. of sewers in Fremantle in areas 1, 2, 3, 4. T. H. Bath) in moving the second reading- and 5 respectively. said: This Bill is primarily for the pur- 3772 (ASSEMBLY.] posw of making provision for the neces- a further amendment is made providing sary amount of capital to carry us onl at that the interest chargeable on advances least until the assembling of Parliament made for other than improvements shall for the next session. During the past be increased to 6 per cent. This has 12 months the Agricultural Bank has% been rendered necessary by' reason of had an extension of its career of useful- the faet that it is possible that during the neSS in Western Australia, and a very present time of financial stringency we large number of people during the recent may have to pay a higher rate of interest serious difficulty in many%of our agri- for our money. cultural areas were able to take advan- Hon. J. Mitchell ;That is only a teol- tage of the liberalised provisions of the pom-ary trouble. baink to secure assistance which was of such a nature as to carry them over their The MINISTER FOR LANDS : At difficulties. I inight point out fot- the least we must make provision that in information of hon. members that the lending money the State is not involved power given to the trustees to lend on in any loss in the transaction, and to that the security of the holding enabled the extent we atre making provision in the Agricultural Banik to transfer the lia- case of advances for other than improve- bilities, as between the settlers upon the ments, that the interest shall be six per land and commercial firms to the Agri- cent., and also that advances made for cultural Banik :at the samne time, of this purpose shall be paid by the borrower -course, reasonable precautions were taken in instalments as determined by the trus- to see that the margin of security was tees of the bank at the time the loan is sufficient to cover the advance, and as- a negotiated. It is in my opinion an al- result of that consideration it meant that together different proposition to secure firms who for their own protection might an advance for improvements of a have been compelled to take extreme permanent charltcter, from securing an action against the settlers by reason of advance for the purpose of dealing with the payment of portion of their claims, temporary difficulties or for any tem- were ready and willing then to extend porary purpose, and I think this pro- *consideration to the settlers, and so vision is absolutely necessary not only enable them to tide over a difficult situia- in order to protect the Agricultural Bank tion. The position onl the 30th June but also to provide for the repayment of last was that the total amount advanced this money at an earlier date than is by the Banik was £1,946,184, of which specified by the Act, so that wve may again sumn £665,453 has been repaid, leaving uitilise this money in extending the bene- a balance of £1,280,731 outstanding onl ficial work of the bank. Of course if in that date. The instalmuents paid during the future we find thiat money can be the year amounted to £405,942 of which secured at a lower rate of interest it will .£E43,267 represented liabilities taken over, not be a difficult matter for us to again £31,004 for stock, £3,013 machinery ad- amend this provision. I mnight point out vanees, and the amount expended in that owing to the many demands upon further development was £328,658 for the Savings Bank funds mid, owing to which the following improvements wyore the increase in the work of institutions like the Agricultural Banik and the pro- eIffected :-Clearing, 161,787 acres r ing- vision of water supply, which in the past barking, 240.210 acres; fencing 19.5,135 has largely been provided out of Savings chains; blackboy and poison grabbing Bank flunds, it is practically certain that 12,929 acres; wvater conservation- and with increased work and increased de- draining costing £253,110. The new ac- lmnd for money, other means of financing counts opened during the year numbered these proposals will have to be provided. And I do not think that any means can 1,334 and there wvere closed 461, leaving be found which will be so convenient as 7,101 onl the books. fin addition to the financing from the Savings Bank, be- amendment which provides for anl in- cause it means the money is made avail- -crease of capital to the extent of £500.000, able to the trustees of the Agricultural ))2 'o.fl~-- - 1431 1 912Q .]-

Banik just when they require it. If, on pounds for every week or part of a. the other hand, we have to do as sug- week suich instalm-Lent remains unpaid. gested by the member for Northam The Victoria Park municipality were (Hon. J. Mitchell), namely, go on the the promoters under the Act, and they market in London for a loan, it will mean have ever since been paying this rental that the interest will have to be paid on of £1'20 per annumi- towards the ulpkeep that loan from the time of flotation, of thej causeway. Tfhis sumn is just about although all the money will not be re- the whole amnount they have received quired in the Agricultural Bank at one per annuin fromn the operations of the time. In that respect, the plan will be in trais in the mnunicipality. notwith. no sense so convenient as the system standirng that they had borrowed a. under which we are borrowing at the little over £5,000 for the constructiont present time. Owing to the growth of of the tramway track. operated for themn our demands, it is practically certain that by the Perth Tramway Company, and other channels will have to be found to for this £5,000 they have been paying provide the capital for the bank. I beg 5 per cent. It will thus be seen that they to mo ve-- were receiving nothing at all from tdme That tke BUS be now read a second operations of the trais. They con- tim'!. sider this £120 per annumn an unfair charge, and the present Minister for On motion by Hon. Frank Wilson de- Works, like his predecessor, also con- bate adjourned. siders it unfair ; consequently we have introduced a nreasnre to repeal Clause 19 of the provisional order. Although BILL-VI UrORKIA PARR Sr K AMWAVS the Bill was introduced at the very ACT AMEND1MENT. outset of the session, we have purposely Second Rcudinq. refrained from advancing it any further for the reason that we were in negotiation The PREMIER (lon. .1. Scaddan) in moving the second reading said: with the tramway comipany with a view lion. This; Bill wiveintroduced as the privilego. to acquiring their rights. As Bill at the beginning of the session. members know, those negotiations have and amiong the Its object is to repeal Clause 19 of the snebeen completed, rights, ve have thus provisional order set out in the schedule acquired is the option of pur-chase of the Victoria Park of the Victoria Park Tramwvays Act, 1904. The clause to be repealed readts Tramnways, an) option which expires, in February nest. We Propose to exer- as follows:- cise that option, which -will. involve the The promoter shall pay to the refunding of the £5,000 which the cauuob Minister for Works an annual rent cipalit3 - borrowed for the purlpose of of one hundred and twenty pounds constructing the track. When in Coin- commencing from the time the pro- inittce I propose to insert a new clause moter begins the construction of thle in the Pll as follows: tram-ways on Albany-road at the east of the causeway, being interest On the exercise hy the Covernor, on the cost of strengthening and pursuant to Section 7 of the Trai- widening the causeway, suich rent ways Purchase Act, 191-2, of the to be paid by equal half-yearly in- option to purchase the Victoria Park stahuents. on the first day of April trainwavs under the agreemient re- and on the first day of October in ferred to in paragraph (24) of the every year. 1.f at any time default provisional order, the purchase mioney is miade by the promoter in) payment may, subject as hereinafter provided,. of sndh instalnent of rent, and such be applied by the council of the default continues for two weeks after municipality of Victoria Park in an;' such instalment becomes due the works and undertakings specified in. promoter shall be liable, without Section 438 of the Municipal Cor- farther notice, to a penalty of five porationIs Act, 1906, and itii the die- 3774 -774(ASSEMBLY.]

charge of any obligations-7 incurred The PREMIIER : Yes. If the rate- by the said council in respecti of *any payers refused to allow the council such works or undertakings. to spend the money in this direction, .Then follows a proviso to the effect that they would have the £5,000 locked up the council shall, before applying this until the loan reached maturity, and the purchase money in any direction, give £,5,000 would probably be utilised by -notice of its intention, with particulars te Treasurer, invested in local stock -of the proposed expenditure ; and in earning 4 per cent., for them, while the event of twenty owners of rateable on the other hand they would have to land within the district objecting to provide 5 per cent., with the result the expenditure, and demanding a poli that they would be losing one per cent. -on the question such poll shall be taken and the money would be doing no good by the municipality. I may say it is whatever. So we think it better to against the wish of the municipality allow them to expend the money as that we propose to make that provision, if it were the proceeds of a new loan, but the position is that when they but we hold that it is only proper that -obtained the consent of the ratepayers they should first get the consent of the to the raising of that £5,000, it was with ratepayers to its expenditure. I move- a different object, namely, to put down Tha the Bill be now read a Recond a tramway. Since then they have asked time. permission to raise a further loan of Hon. FRANK WILSON (Sussex): 1. £5,000 for the making of streets, etcetera, am glad to see the Premier and his but on a poll being taken the proposal colleagues have decided to exercise was defeated. Had it not been for this their right to purchase the Victoria I would have asked Parliament to ap- Park Tramways. They have, I think, -prove of the money being expended by taken the proper course. Now that the municipality as deemed fit, but we have decided to nationalise the in view of the objection on the part tramway system, it would be a great of the ratepayers to the raising of a pity to exclude any outlying portion of farther loan of £5,000, 1 consider it is the system. I hope the same course -only right that we should protect the will be taken in regard to the Nedleands ratepayers and treat this £5,000 as a. tramway- The Premier has taken the new loan. The ratepayers knew that right action in respect to the repayment the Tramway Company intended to of this money and its future utilisation. take up the option in February next and He has safeguarded the interests of the in effect they said "1We object to the ratepayerg in Victoria. Park by the loan being raised, because when the proposed new clau~se, providing that Tramway Company exercise the option a referendum may be taken on the they will be paying £5.000 which the question of whether the ratepayers municipality will then have to spend. approve of this money being utilisdd Mr. S. Stubbs: Can they expend- for public works within the municipality. on other works the money which will I have not the slightest doubt that be paid for the tratuways ? the necessary permission will be forth. comaing. I fancy the rejection of The PREMIUER: When the Bill the previous loan of £5,000 was due is passed they can. That is the object to the fact that the ratepayers knew of the Bill. I have made provision in they had this indebtedness and there- the Bill that they shall accept this fore they were not prepared to un- x5,000 as if it were a new loan, and duly increase it, especially in view will require to go through the prescribed of the fact that they would he getting procedure to secure the consent of a refund of the £5,000 next February. :ratepayers to its expenditure. That I think the Premier has taken the right is the safeguard we provide. course. and I support the second reading. Aft. Taylor: You are really dealing Mr. S. STUB3BS (Wagin): I desire nnith the ratepayers. to compliment the Government upon [22 NOvEMBER. 1912.] 377577

their decision to purchase the Victoria Tramway Company to purchase at the -Park tramways. The point I would end of seven years, and if they were raise is this: Suppose I had loaned to desirous of protecting their interests they the council £5,000 with which to put would have made provision that when down tramways, and subsequently the the money was repaid the bonds should municipality decided to sell right, title, be redeemed. I would point out, how. and interest in those tramnways ; would ever, that even if the council held the the municipality be legally entitled to money the bonds could not be redeemed put the purchase money to some other until a certain time, and under the amend- use without the consent of the bond- ment I will propose, if the vote is against holders ? The money was borrowed the council spending the money in the for a specific purpose, which, of course dirction it desires, the purchase money passed when they disposed of the tram- shall be applied to the redemption of wvays. Suppose they decided to invest the loan, hut it will be only arning the purchase money in a town hal,. or three per cent, in the meantim whereas in some other invest of which 1, as a the council is paying five per cent., and bondholder did not approve. Will the there would thus be a loss of two per cent. Bill that the Premier has introduced The bond holders' security is the muni- give them that power. seeing that the cipal rates. municipality borrowed the money for Mr. Hudson: The revenue of the a specific purpose ? trains was not earmarked for the loan? The Premier: We do that in connection The PREMIER: No. As a matter with our loans. We freque~ntly reap- of fact the revenue of the tramns was propriate money that we borrowed for earmarked for the upkeep of the cause- the specific purpose and do not consult Way. the bond holder. Question put and passed. Mr. S. STUBEBS: The Government Bill read a second time. are in a different position from a muni- cipal cowncil. ]n Committee. The Premier : The money was lent Mr. MceDo-wall in the Chair, the Pre- on the distinct understanding that the mier in charge of the Bill. council would sell in February next. Clauses 1. a-a~eed to. Mr. S. STU1BS: I know that the old New clause-Application of proceeds Mlunicipal Act of 1896 said that when on exercise of option to purchase: a corporation desired to borrow money it The PREMIER moved- must advertise the specific work on which That the following be added to stand the money was to be expended, and it as Clause 3 :-" (1.) On the exercise could not be expended on any other work. by the Governor, pursuant to section It seems to me that the point I. have raised seven of' 'The Tramways Purchase is worth looking into, but if the Premier Act, 1912,' of the option to purchase thinks that the municipality has the the Victoria Park tramways, under the same right to expend this money as the agreement referred to in paragraph Government have in connection with twernty-jour of the Provisional Order, their loans, well and good. the purchase money may, subject as The PREMIER (in reply): The point hereinafter provided, be applied by the raised by the hon. member is one that council of the municipality of Victoria perhaps might be considered when deal- Park in any works and undertakings ing with the Municipalities Act, as to specified in section jour hundred and whether a local body should be permitted thirty-eight of 'The Municipal Corpora- to raise money for a specific object, and tions Act. 1906,' and in 1te discharge spend it in some other direction. But of any obligations incurred by the said in this case the bond holders wvere fully council in respect of any such works, or aware of the object of the loan, and undertakings. Provided that the said they were also aware that the council council shall, before so applying the was making provision for the Perth purchase money or any part thereof. 3776 [ASSEMBLY.]

publish notice of its intention, with the Governor's consent, without such con- particulars of the proposed expeniture, sent being obtained. in the 'Government Gazette' and in a The PREMIER: The works for which newspaper; and within one month after the Governor's consent had to be obtained such publicatio any twenmty owners of were waterworks, lighting schemes, and rateable land situated within the mauni- trarnears. In this case there seemed to- ci-pal district may, in writing delivered be no reason why that restriction should to the townz clerk, require the question be maintained. If there wvas any intei- whether or not the purchase money lion to include any one of those works should be so applied to be submitted to he would take action to see that the con- the owners of such ratecable land. (2.) If sent of the Governor in Council was ob- such requisition is made the votes of tained, but there was no such intention. *suck owners shall be taken and the pro- Air. WISDOM: The clause omitted the visions of section four hundred and provision in Section 444 for the prepara- forty-seven, of 'The Municipal Corpora- tion of plans and specifications of any' tions Act, 1906,' shall apply: Provided work to be submitted for the consent oC that the voting pa'per shall be in the the ratepayers. The owners of property *form of the schedule to this Act. (3.) If should have the fullest information withl no such requisition is made, or if on a regard to proposed works, and it wvas ex- poll being taken a majority of the votes tremely necessar that plans and specifi- polled is in the affir-mative on the ques- cations should be provided before the ref- tion submitted, the council may apply erendlum was taken. the purchase money accordingly ; but it a majority of votes polled is in the The PREMIER: The safeguard men- negative, the purchase money shall be tioned was necessary in the case of a new applied by the council to the redemption loan, but in this case it did not apply-_ of the loan raised by the council for All necessary safeguard was contained in the construction of the said tramways." the Permission given to the ratepayers to- say whether the money should be applied .1r. ISD41OM: Would the new clause to works in the municipality or to the re- permit tile muicipalilies to expend that demuption of the loma. This was only a inoney .,n new works- Section 438 of small amount, and it was not desirable to, I he A\l n icipalities, A ct required that the compel the council to obtain plans and Go~vernior's consent should be obtained specifications at some cost, when the biefore loan money could be expended iii schedule should be suffcient to satisfyv c-ounection with certain works mentioned the ratepayers as to whether the money in Subsections 5i. 6; and 7. 'Was it in- was being wisely expended. tended that such work could be carried Mir. WISDOM: The expense hardly wit under the flew cla use without the Gov'- entered into the question; whatever woris er1101-S consent q were to be undertaken would require The PR}IER : The exp)enditure of plans and specifications. The fact that I his money' was different f row thie expendi- this was an old loan did not matter, be- luire of a newv loan. As (lie Government cause the works to be undertaken were had to ann ran tee I he munnicipaql council new and] the ratepayers were to be asked Inns there was some need for the Gov- to agree to expenditure in the same way erInor to consider how such loan money as if it was expenditure from a new loan. was Io be ex pen dedi. )ut( this was an old Tf those safeguards were necessary in loan anti did nol in ain'- way increase the connection with a loan they were equally indebtedness of the municipality. necessary when this money was to be re- expended on works quite different from Mr. W1SD0?d : The question was that for which the money was first raised. whether, if the referendum provided for Mir. S. STUBBS: To safeguard every- by the new clause was passed, the muni- body the amendment suggested by th eipalit. would be permitted to spend member for Claremont might be desir- money on the works usually reserved for able. Supposing a council embarked on [22 NovEMBERz, 1912.] i77 7 a scheme for £5,000, would they be on 17ole-Public Wlorks and Buildings, -'afe ground? f.301,158: Item, Wyndham Jetcty repairs. £1,500: 'rho PREMIER: There would be no Mr. MALE: Would the Minister say objection on his part hut the proviso was wvhether the work had been started at sufficient. Although it did not stipulate this port and what p.rogress had been that plans and specifications should be blade. drawn uip and an estimate of the work The MIISTER FOR WVORKS: Trhe g.,iven, the schedule would contain the jetty was in at very bad state. butt it plan and an estimate of the cost. If the was impossible to do work upt there in memnber for Claremont (Mfr. Wisdom) summer at a reasonable cost, .*nid it was moved an amendment to make Section prop~osed to take a (ean Iow working .444 of the Municipalities Act of 1906 at one of the otlier ports to W ,yndham aply b1'e would accept it. about 21 arch or Apil nexmx anl enrr v out * Mfr. WISDOM: Then he wvould move the intl rovenienl sand( repa irs to ilite jetty ,n amendment- anld hospital. That the words "provided also that Mr. M.ALE: it was .lellsinz to hear the provisions of Section 444 of the the 21 ijster's candid admission I hat it Mlunicipal Corporations Act, 1906, was not profitable to work tip there in *shall apply" be added at the end of summer. Subelause 1 of the proposed new clause. The Mlinister for Works: I said eco- Amendment passed; the new clause as nomieallv. amuended agreed to. Mr. AiALE: The Federal Government New schedule: intended to try to develop tile Northern territory, whichi was in thle same latit ude, ,file PREMIER moved- with white labour. [That the following be inserted as the The Premier: Pitt the men in the schedule to the Bill :-"The Schedule. erritory will he working there conitt u- Municipality of Victoria Park. Voting onsly, while these men il!I e sent to Paper. Onl the proposal of the Couneg, to expend the proceeds of sale of the Mr. 2JALE: It was rather a candid Victoria Park Tramwuays in Municipal admission after all tiat had been said works. Yes. - No. - Instructions--if about the possibilities of walking the you approve of the purchase money North with white labour. He agreed with being expended by the Council as pro- the Minister that it was not. possible to posed, strike out the word 'No.' If work there in summer. ybou dto not approve of the purchase money being expended by the Oouncil The Minister for Works: Yon aire view- as proposed, and desire such purchase ing it from a different point of view. money to be applied to the redemtption Mr. MALE: It was satisfactory to know of the loan raised by the Council for that the work wvould be started as soon the construction of the tramwvays, strike as possible. out the word 'Yes."' The 'MINISTER FOR WORKS: It New schedule passed. was not tight that the hon. member's in- Title-agreed to. terpretation of his words should be put Bill reported with amendments. on record without pointingZ out that it was incorrect. The wvorkc could not be done this siummer without sending upl a. ANNUAL ESTIMATES. 1912-13. special team. It was difficult to get a team to go to Wyndham and the proposal In Committee of Sup ply. was to take Lte gang flow at Point Samnp- Resumed from the previous day, Mr. son to Wyndham. Those men would fin- Mcflowall in the Chair. ish at Point Sampson before Christmas Department of Public Works (Hon. and would come to Perth for the holidays WV.D. Johnson, Minister). and then go to Wyndhin. 3778 [ASSEMBLY.]

Item, New works, school buildings, teacher to get a comfortable place to board £E25,000: at and a resident teacher was necessary. Hon. 3. MITCHELL: It was disap- The Minister had treated the district with pointing that provision had not been made scant consideration by omitting this pro- for school quarters at Southern Brook. vision. Mr. MALE: It was his desire to refer The M1INISTER FOR WORKS: The Ito a previous item. lion, member had made representations The CHAIRMAN: It was not possible but it had been found necessary to cur- to go back. tail the expenditure. There had been an Mr. ALE: -Might hie ask a questioni enormous increase, and Southern Brook The CHAIRMAN: The lion. member could dto without quarters for the teacher could do that so long as he did not ask for the present year. Accomomdation to go back. could be provided, but he was under the, Mr. MALE: Would the Minister give impression that it was a single teacher some information as to what was being and that quarters were not urgently re- done at the Boyn. quarry? quired. There were scores of places The MINISTER FOR WORKS: The where quarters should be provided, but quarry was established and equipped in order to keep the schools going it was to quarry' stone for the Fremantle Dock. necessary to keep the quarters down to Members knew what had happened with a minimum to make the money go further regard to the dock. It was then decided in the erection of schools. to utilise the machinery to quarry stone for the local bodies in the metropolitan Hon. J. Mitchell: It is not possible ta area. Consequently the quarry was now send a teacher there in the circumstances. a trading concetrn. It had been separated Item, Dalkeith and Crawvley Estates,. from the dock and it was proposed to Maintenance and wages of labourers, et- transfer the capital to repay to the dock cetera, £1,000: account the amount represented by' ma- Mr. MALE: Was the garden at Dal- chinery in the quarry. He wans hopeful keith being maintained and was the fruit of getting a contract to supply stone for being disposed of to advantage, because. the naval base. it seemed a lot of money to spend unle4s Hlon. Frank Wilson: Are you working we got some return from it ? it nowv? The 'MINISTrER FOR WORKS: flal- The MINISTER FOR WORKS: Yes: lop's garden at Dalkeith was being main- about 14 mnt were employed. tamned, and a fair amount of fruit was Ron. J. -Mitchiell: Regarding thie Boya. disposed of, mainl 'y to the mail boats, quarry- the revenue derived being under the head- The CHAIRMAN: Order! ]t was dis- ing "'Sundry." Tenders had been re- titly staled that 'ye could nol go back, ceived for leasing the garden, bul they and the hion. member was merely allowed wecre not satisfactory and were being to ask n question. called afresh. The garden at Crawley Ron. J. MITCHELL: It had been his was being maintained, and the fruit was hope that provision would be made for distributed chiefly among the hospitals school quarters at Southern Brook. The and such like institutions. The terms residents had asked for such provision and for leasing the Dalkeith garden were he had] written to the Minister who bad drawn up by the Fruit Commissioner. It. promised to put an amount on the Esti- was anticipated satisfactory arrangements mates. Southern Brook was an import- for the next five years could be made. ant agricultura] settlement wvit iia good The State itself could not ran the garden number of residents. satisfactorily. The 'Minister for Works: The teacher Hon. FRANK WILSON: Was any ar- is not married is he? rangement made for carrying the river- Hon. J. MITCHELL: Yes, he was mar- side road through the garden as was ori- ried no0w. it was impossible for a single ginally contemplated 1 [22 NovsMaMM, 1912.) 373779

The INISTER FOR W'ORKS: Yes, addition there was expenditure. being the survey was completed, and it was pro- carried out by the Public Works posed to carry the riverside road right Department upon which interest, if not through, and eventually he hoped to see sinking fund, was being paid out of the trains go through. It was a neces- Consolidated Revenue.. It was clearly sary work but it was not an urgent one. pointed out at the time the 1909 Bill Vote put and passed, was before Parliament, that this ex- Vote - I Vter Supply Departmeat, peirditure would go on until the works £-224,053:- were completed, when. they would be HUn. FRANK WILSON - It would, be handed over to the Metropolitan Water -wise to delete from this portion of the Supply, Sewerage and Drainage Depart- Estimates the sum of £75,870 revenue ex- ment, from- which time onwards that de- lpenditure in connection with the Metro- partment would become responsible for politan Water Supply, Sewerage and the payment of interest and sinking fnd, Drainage Department, because the Pre- but that up till that time, until the works mici' was in an illegal position, notwith- were revenue producing, the interest 'was stanjding it was proposed to introduce a -fair charge towards the cost of construc- legislation to include the tnbtropolitan tion. undertakings under the general XWater The Premier: It was intended to add it Supply Department. to the capital cost. The M1inister for Works- The second lon. PRANK WILSON: Yes. reading is on now. The Premier: Then the longer it is left Hon. FRANK WILSON: Bnt the Bill the more the capital cost will he, had not passed Parliament, and already lion. FRANK%7 WI]LSON: Yes. there was an Act in existence 'by which The Premier: It is revenue-producing the metropolitan undertaking was a citi- in sections. zeng' iindei'taki ng absolutely eontrolled lion. FRANK WILSON: According to by the Minister, and] there was no right the Minister for Works there were 2,000 to include in the Consolidated Revenue houses connected and there were 12,000 and Expenditure Estimates any expendi- to be connected, so about a seventh of the ture in connection wvith the Metropolitan system was revenue-producing so far as Water Supply, Sewerage and Drainage the sewerage works were concerned. Department. The Premier -was in error. Storm water drains were immediately re- when speaking in reply to the general de- venue-producing when the Minister struck bate on the Financial Statement, in say- a rate as had been done, and we were en- ing that the £C46,680 interest and sinking titled to transfer the storm water drains fund contributions were exclusive of in- to the department, but we were only en- terest and sinking~ fnund contributions pro- titled to debit the department with the vided under Special Acts. The latest re- proportion of interest and sinking fund port of the department for the 30th June, on the amount of the sewerage works that 1011, showed that the interest on the de- was revenue-producing. That, however, bentures issued in connection -with the was beside the question. Taking the Pre- Perth district undertakings amounted to mier's figures and the report of the de- £13,325, in addition to which there was partment, we could not hut come to the 'the sum of £4,940 for the redemption of conclusion that there was some error, and debentures in connection with thbe same that the Premier bad been wrongly ad- undertaking. Therefore, at that time a vised with regard to the interest and sink- sunof £23.265 represented the interest on ing fund charge. According to the report debentures and the sinking fund or. in of the department it was £C23,205 for the other -words, redemption in connection year ending- 30th June, 1911. The Pre- with the Mfetropolitan Water Supply, mier gave as the expenditure from Gener- Sewerage and Drainage Department out- al Loan Funds on sewerage and drainage side the construction carried on by the works the sum of P526.000 whereas the Public Works Department. Of course in M'inister for Works had mentioned 3780 37, [ASSEMBLY.]

£3150,000. The Premier was probably cor- debenture capital account, £498,000 re- rect. The figuires probably included the deemed £41,724. Then we had the Fre- Fremantle and Claremont undertakings. mantle water sup-ply -956,000, less sinking Very likely sinking fund had not corn- fund £1,254, Claremont water supply, nienced on all the money borrowed for the £38,000: less a small sinking fund contri- carrying out of these works, hut that bution, bringing it down to £37,000 ; 2 again -was beside the question. He was total of £652,000 for debentures issued, quite prepared to assume the position and on the contra side of the account that sinking fund was payable on the uinder assets, we had a total asset value of whole of the money expended. One per- £549,990. That was the public accounts cent. was certainly not payable on the balancee issued in conuetiou with that whole of the money, because for the department.. The Premier gave us the last two or three years we had expenditure under loan1 funds at adopted a sinking fund of a half per cent. £E520,000, so that if we added the The Premier:- Does not the 'Metropoli- two together we hiad something tan Water Supply, Sewerage and Drain- like £1l,076,000. It was easily figured age Act provide for one per cent? what the interest and sinking fund would Hon, FRANK WILSON: No. It amiount to:. It certainly could not amount provided for interest not exceeding 4 to £46,000 plns £28,000 as the Premier in- per cent. and a contribution to the sinking dicated. There must he some mistake in fuLnd not exceeding one per cent. The con Inection with this matter and the Pre- reason for that was obvious. It was in- mier must have been misled with regard tended that we should just charge the to the amount hie had to find for expendi- actual rate of interest the State was pay- ture on these works. lug on loans raised f romn time to time and The Premier: The figures were sup- titised by appropriation for these works, plied by the nder-secretary of the de- and in addition the actual sinking fund partment. those loans carried. If we took the ex- Hon. FRANK WILSON: There must penditure during his (Mfr. Wilson 's) term he something -wrong with them, at =ny of office, the cost would be £ 3 16s. per rate lie would like to see them. The Pre- (cnt., and even if we Look tie full one per inier could see that on a million and a cent, for sinking fund, which be contended half of money the interest at 4 per cent. we were not entitled to take, then there would be £40,000, and with the addition wvould be 43/ per cent. as the rate neces- of provision for sinking fund, it would sary, to rover interest and sinking fund come in round figures to £C50,000. His on the amount expended from Joan funds contention therefore was that the item on on these undertaking". That would give the Estimates covered the whole of the ;tfl amount of something like £24,000. "If interest and sinking fund. The position -we added to that the £23,000 which he then was simply this : that if the amount had already ref erred to, we wonld get a which was payable uinder our loan statutes suim of about £48,000. He admitted, of for interest and sinking fund was legally course, that the figures could not be abso- chargeable at the present time to the Met- lutely perfect, hut they were near enough ropolitan Wkier Supply and Sewerage to show that the £46,680 shown in these Department, then the Premier in framing Estimates did in reality cover the whole his Estimates had charged the amount of the interest and sinking fund charge- twice. The amount had first of all been able on the total expenditure of this provided for under statutory obligation deparltment, including what was spent by which the Premier could not get away thie Minister for Works from time to timne fronm and then it had heen included in this out of loan funds. £46,860. The Premier: I hope that pans out 1o The Premier: It will -reduce my defliit lie correct. thue i. Hon. FRANK WILSON: Take it any Hon. FRANK WILSON: What be wany the lhon. member likes. We had here was doing was to indicate the position [22 XovEMBnn. 1912.J]78 3781 clearly to the Premier. He figured die out the deficit, but the point lie wanted to position out as follows :-Tiere was in- force home was that undoubtedly the Esti- terest and sinking fund on the Fremantle mates showed that we were taking for the and Claremont water supplies which had purpose of the State an estimated profit been transferred, approximating £5.000; that belonged to the citizens of the metro- and there was interest and sining fund ipolitali area. The Act provided very oil tine sewerage works carried out by the clearly what bad to be done with these Works Department according to the Min- funds. Section 127 read- istce' for Works' interview in the news- All revenue received by the Minister papers of about £16,000, so that there from rates, charges, rents, or otherwise was roughly £21.000 provided under slat- under this Act, shall be collected and re- ides for interest and sinking fund that ceived by him or his authorised officers might be fairly chargeable if the works and paid to the Colonial Treasurer, and were all completed and revenue producing, shall be applied in the manner follow- to the department. That showed that this ing, that is to say:-(a.) In defraying amount, if his (Mr. Wilson's) contention the expense incurred in the mainten- was correct, had heen twice charged. The ance and management of the works, estimated deficit would be reduced if the and in the conduct of the business of lion. memher struck out £21,000 from the the Minister: (b.) In payment of the estimated expenditure and said "I have interest and contributions to the sink- already provided it uder statutory obli- ing fund of any loan, the liability in gations." But lie Would increase the profit respect of which is transferred to the fie showed between tine estimated revenue Minister or of any loan raised by the and the expenditure. making- it appear Minister; (c.) In the payment of any that the citizens of Perth were in round interest or instalment of principal or figures contributing to the general revenue contributions to the sinking fund due to the tune of about £E45,000. Supposing in respect of any liability of the Min- we left that aspect of the question alone, ister to the Colonial Treasurer; (d.) the position would be that the estimated In the construction, extension, and im- deficit would be reduced by the £21,000, provement of works. but after deducting the profit which lie It was lpurely' the citizens' undertaking contended bad been wrongfully taken by' aind he maintained at once that it was ob- tine Treasurer, there would then be some- viously unfair to put any, Treasurer in thing like £45,000 added to that deficit. tine position of being able to effect a bal- The Premier: That cannot be. anice ill connection with the consolidated Hon. FRANK WILSON: If the Pie- revenue and expenditure by utilising the inier maintained it was only £24,000, evein water rates or the sewerage rates or the then it would make the actual deficit storm water rates of the residents of the £169,000. Butl lie (Mr. Wilson) wvas not metropolitan area. One might just im- there to bandy words with the Premier as agine the position. Suppose members to what the deficit would be. It would he opposite got themselves so entangled substantial enough whatever happened, flinancially next year or perhaps in two and it was more likely to be bigger than years that they threw lip the sponge and the -fgures (he Premier putl before the the Opposition had to take the Treas- cotmaittee. ury' benches and straighten up the finan- The Premier: Yet you are asking us to ces as was done seven years ago, the Treasurer would then look around to see increase the expenditure in every dire- where lie could raise revenue, but he would tion. find that the avenues were all pretty Hon. FRANK WILSON: That was well closed. He wvould find that the land the dutty of the Opposition, and the Pre- mie had to bear in mind that he too bad tax had been doubled and that lie could battled in the same direction, notwith- not load the land with further taxation;. standing that the Liberal Government lie would find that the income tax bad were struggling to their utmost to wipe been doubled and trebled in many cases 3782 3782[ASSEMBLY.] and that he could not squeeze. any more sum of money from it. However, the Bil taxation out of the incomes without en- did not go through, and so the revenue was dangering them; then he would turn lost; but no expenditure had been pro- his attention to the water and sewerage jected on the other side as against that department and say "Here is the oppor- item, and so everything was in order. It tunity to raise the water rates to 2s. as might justly he argued that the Premier it wats in previous years, and so get had no right to estimate profits on his £C25,000 or £30,000. steamship undertakings, his butchers' The Minister for Works : That is a shops. and his quarry at Bova. profits miserable attitude to take uip. which had not been earned. These were H7on. FRANK WILSON : That was not going concerns for they were merely the attitude the lion, mnember was takine in their inception. The Premier had over lip to-day. He "'as putting £E76,000 into £40,000 put down in connection with cer- this uindertaking and hie was going to ex- tamn unidertalings. For instance lie had tract £:100,000 from the citizens. inserted as estimated profits from State The Premier : You should make cer- hotels the sum of £11,000. iain that y ou are correct before you make The Minister for Works : On a point accusations. of order, the question before the Chair is the Works Estimates, aiid not State ion. FRAN1(. WILSON : It was all steamers and Stale hotels. in plain fig-ures and he had taken those Hon. FRANK WILSON: Here "'as a Of the Premnier and the Minister for great principle at stake. Works; there were no other figures to The Minister for Works: Stick to this -tak-e. other principle. 'Re M1inister for Works :You have Hon. FRANK WILSON: Here was a aot them mixed uip. great principle at stake which the Pre- Hon. PRANL\K WILSON: 'We could mier had to do with as Treasurer. not g1et away from the figures 'which The M'inister for Works: Stick to the had been gaiven to the House. The Pre- point. inier said we had to pay £:28,000 on interest and sinking fund outside the Hon. FRANK WILSON: It was his £46,000, but that could not be. And lie intention to stick to the point he wished said that the consolidated revenue would to stick to. The Premier had taken paper pay f4,000. The Act of Parliament de- profits into his Estimates and had esti- cla.red that they should carry their own mnated £11,000 fromj State hotels, but liability, and even if the Premier were already the Premier had occasion to esti- -right hie was not entitled to make the mate that hie would get only one half that -whole of the citizens of Western. Atis- amount from State hotels. Also the Pre- I ralia contribute even £4,000 towards mier had estimated £12,000 profits on) his an undertaking confined to the metro- steamers, while his butchers' stalls were to politaii area. However, the Premier was bring him in £3,000 profit. The ferries. wrong, and knew that hie was wrong. the Premier estimated, would bring in This thing, was being carried on under an £1,000 profit, and the Fremantle Work- Act of Parliament, and until that Act was shops £1,250. repea led the Premnier had no right to al- The CHAIRMAN: This seemed very ter its provisions in any respect. The like a general discussion on the whole of Premier had twitted hin, with having once the Estimates. Of course if the hion. included in the Revenue Estimates the member was merely using it as an illustra- anticipated returns from a land tax not tion it could not be disallowed, but it at that time authorised by Parliament. appeared to he a very wide illustration. But on that occasion there wvas justifica- Hon. FRANK WILSON: It was by tion for the action. There was no Act way of illustration, in reply to the Pre- ,of Parliament, but he announced his in- mier's charge that he (Hon. Frank Wil- tention of bringing down a Bill, and in son) had done something similar. None The meantime hie had expected to get a of these undertakings were on a par with (22 Noynteun, 1912. '7337S3 the Metropolitan Water Supply at "l. If This was only a matter of opinion, and the Premier would boost up his estimated the Government took up thie attitude that revenue by estimated profits of course be they were running, a water supply de- was at liberty to do so, but it was neces- partment and running it on business lines, sary to protest if we were going to take and that consequently it was advisable to ,over a department from rhe citizens of keel) all the water supplies in the one thie metropolitan area wvhich was their departinent and run them in an economi- business alone, and which existed under cal manner. Why should we keel) the -an Act of Parliament. These otlher under- Metropolitan Water Supply sepaorate, any tal-ings had no Act of Parliament. If more than any other water supply? there were Acts of Parliament controlling Hon. Frank Wilson:- Because by Act them we could protest against them, as of Parliament you must. he was protesting in connection with the The MINISTER FOR WORKS: It Metropolitan Water Supply. We had no was being kept separate in the book- right to take the citizens' money if it was keeping. The hon. member 'was mislead- a profit, as shown in the Premier's Esti- ing the country when he stated that the ma tes. Government were taking credit to Con- The Mlinister for Works: We are con- solidated Revenue out of the profits of thle triluting it. Metropolitan Water Supply. That was Hon. FRANK WILSON : If they were not so. If wve wvere to continue the exist- contributing- it they had no right to take ing practice as far as the State was con- revenue to relieve the ratepayers in this cerned it was "heads I win, tails you connection. They were not justified in lose," for tile reason that tile water supply anticipating that any legislation which was paying interest on the dab entures, would make this a revenue producing de- lbut the general taxpayer was responsible partment would receive the sanction of for the interest on the sewerage. To-day Parliament. It was obviously wrong and that responsibility was being carried hy unfair that we should take any of the the general taxpayer. The Government citizens' water rates in order to increase were prelpared to recognise it as a proper the Consolidated Revenue and help bal- business concern, that they should take ance the Treasurer's figures. On the other the burden for the sewerage, drainage, hand it was obviously unfair that we and water supply, and run it all in con- should take any portion of Consolidated junction as one concern, for the reason Revenue to decrease the citizens' liability that to-day we were paying from the for services specially rendered to them. State funds, from the general taxp~ayer', We were embarking on a. serious pro- £28,000 towards the interest on capital cedure which -was obviously illegal. Hon. expenditure on sewerage and storm. members could inquire into it for them- water drainage. That £28,000 came out selves. The Premier ought to take out of the pockets of the general taxpayer. from the figures the item of £75,870 The hon. member said it was all1 right until he had his repealing legislation to take that from the taxp~aye-. through. Hon. Frank Wilson: I did not. The MINISTER FOR WORKS: The The MHINISTER FOR WORS: Yet hon. member had taken up an altogether the lion, member bad introduced a Bill wrong attitude. It was true we had to for that pnrpose, and that was the posi- pass a Bill to put these Estimates in tion to-day. The Government wvere simply order. If the Bill was passed the Esti- going to put it on a proper basis. mates were right;, if the Bill was not Hon. Frank Wilson: You are not. passed the Estimates could not operate. The MINISTER FOR WORKS:- The The hon. member had said it was wrong hon. member had desired to know how to take into Consolidated Revenue the the £46,080 was made uip. Metropolitan revnnne from the 'Metropolitan Water Water Suipply debentures for original Supply, and that it was equally wrong to purchase, and subsequent capital expendi- take from Consolidated Revenue expendi- turdamnoun ted to £,595,000, and the in tar- ture in connection with water supply. est on that to £23,807. The interest on 3784 84[ASSEMBLY.] capital expenditure, estimated this year, difference betwveen £37,405 and L4136580. for extensions of niains, etctera, was put or, roughly speaking, the interest was, down at £2,000, mnaking- a total of £25,807. £2,672 and the sinki~ng fund, which of Then we had house connections, which course was lairge on the house connec- were also financed under debentures carry- tions, this being a five or six years' pro- ing 15 per cent, sinking fund. The ex- position, ran into £6,473, making a total penditure oil that was estimated at of £46,680. £E90,000. Ilon. Frank Wilson : Do not your Hon. Frank Wilson: You have tiot clients pay it ? spent anything like that. The MINISTER FOR WORKS : Of The ININSTER FOR WORKS: Of course they wvould pay it, and when they course the hon. member had no idea of paid it tite Government wvould cancel the running this voncern. The lion. member debentures, but in the meantime it was had been jsuing along splashing tip Joan being financed by debentures, and that ex1.enditure with no desire to get revenue was the reason why this sum was pro- fromn the people being served. The pre- vided on the Estimates, bat the sewerage sent Government had reversed that policy, proper was financed from General Loan stopped the capital expenditure other thant Fund and the interest on the capital ex- that on house connections, and were con- penditure onl the sewerage proper was (entratirn their energies on hlouse cornic- charged to general revenure and amounted l ions, so tiatIt he' might get the reveou to £28,000, as has been, outlined by the onl capital expenditure which the hion. Treasurer. member had wasted for so many Years. Hon. FRANK WILSON : Thle Mill- .It was; all rig-ht so far as the hot,, member ister wvith his usual characteristics bad was concerned to go on w'ith capital ex-' descended into a personal attack rather pencliture so long ats the general taxpayer than a reply to tlte criticism to which his. paid the interest. It was because the figures had been subjected. present Government had altered this tinat the hon. member nowv began to sing out. The Mvinister for Works :Yours was a The lion, member dlid not like the light miserable attitude, aiceusing us of desiring of da 'y to fall upon his bad administra- to increase tlte ivaler rates in order to, tion. The present Government lad wipe off thle deficit. I lever beard a more stopp)ed that wasteful oxpj.enditure ao a miserable accusaition. large ext ent. atid were concentrating their Hon. FRANK WILSON: All that had energies ail house connections estimated] been said was merely to illustrate what to cost £E90,000, and the interest m'id sink- might happen if lie or anybody else bad ing fund oii that made uip thre difference to take possession of the Treasury bench between £37,403 and £46,680. The interest and make good the deficit, bitt the Min- amtounted to £25,807 and the sinking fund ister in his remarks was not honest and wrater sup~plV debentutres ranf into, enough, straightforward enough, or roughly, £11,600. truthful enough to stick to facts. Hon. Frank; Vilsout: No. 'rake y;our The CHAIRMAN : T dut not think report;I toere tire the figures. the hon. member is iii order in making The MINISTER FOR WORKS: At- that remark. He must withdraw the though -not having eopy of (lhe report statement that the Minister for Works lie "-as prepared to lake the figures sup- is not truthful. pl1ied to himi by tle aceoun Iant and secre- Hon. FRANK WILSON withdrew the tary of the Water Supply lDepartmnent. remark. The Minister was wilfully in- Mr. Tretltowan tad supplied those figures, accurate in his statement. Thre hon. mem- bjtt 'Mr. Treluouvan had not been respon- ber had said that hie had( been charged sible for the report referred to. The with utilising the water rate for the pur- position wvas that the total liability in pose of covering tip his deficit. The regard to water suipp)ly was £627,406. Then charge against the Minister was that the we had a liability- in regard to debentures Government had utilised that revenue, for house cornnect ions, representing the in trying to hbalance their finances. [2,2 NOVEMBRt, l1912.]

*The Premier : Wrong. pared. - Ultimately Parliaiment decided Hon. FRANK WILSON : The fig-ures not to have a board, and] that the control were there and he who ran might read of the Water Works and Sewerage De- what they meant. They showed an ex- partmnent should be part of the duty, of penditure of £C26,000, and a revenue of 'the Minister for Works. The clauses re- the £100,000 and the difference wvent to de- -lating to the board were deleted and crease the deficit. He had simply used Minister for Works took charge, but he the argument as an illustration, and in took charge under the Act just the same order not to hurt the M1inister's feelings, as if there had been a board appointed tad said that if the Opposition got'back and he had no power to go outside the into power and had to look round for Act. At that time he had explained very revenue they might adopt that attitude. clearly that the works would be carried The Minister knew that he had made a out by the Works Department, and that cowardly insinuation and a dirty attack. until they were completed and handed The hon. member had gone farther and over to the Metropolitan Water Works said that he (Mr. Wilson) had jumbled and Sewerage Department the interest up the finances and wrongly charged and sinking fund, whatever it might be, various amounts. would be payable from Consolidated Re- The Minister for Works : So you have. venue and debited up to the capital cost of the undertaking, so that ultimately the I-Ion. FRANK WILSON : The Min- citizens who were to derive benefits from ister for Works wits always going to do the works would carry the burdens not wonders, and everybody before him had only of the moneys raised for the p)urpose ,done wrong and badly administered the of their construction, but also the interest department. It was time the Minister and sinking fund contributions that had tried to do something other than this been paid during that period. sort-of thing, which was going to put The Premier: It is a pretty big Bill. a burden on people who were not entitled Hon. FRANK WILSON: Thjat did not to carry it: and it was just about time matter; that was the proper course, and bie knocked off telling the country what the House at that time realised that it be was going to do, and waited till he had was fair. If we carried on at big under- done something. taking which required two or three years The Premier : Keep to the point and to complete and we had to borrow money give us less personalities. for it by instalments and pay interest on Hon. FRANK WILSON : The Minis- that money, we charged that interest to ter for Works had accused him of muddl- the capital cost of the undertaking. ing up the finances and of omitting to The Premier: We would have to write charge what was justly chargeable to off thousands and thousands of poundls, this account. When the Bill was intro- and it would never pay. duced in 1909 he had explained fully bow this matter would operate, and the Hot). FRANK WILSON: We would Minister could see those remarks in have to do nothing of the sort. Haoward if he would take the trouble to The Minister for Works: Why did not turn them up. He had pointed out that you do it9 these works would be constructed by the Hon. FRANK WILSON: The works Works Department under the Minister thad never been transferred in his time, for Works, that the department would and that was the reason it was not done. have a staff of experts with the know- The Minister for Works: You werenmot ledge necessary to carry out the works game to tackle the rating. expeditiously and well, but it would be Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Mns folly to expect the Board, which the 'Gov- ter's interjection was childish. The works ,ernment suggested at that time, to en- were not completed. The houses wvere not gage an expert staff simply to carry out connected aiid the Government could not storm water drains and deep sewerage ask the people to pay rates until they got according to the designs already pre- the service. 3786 3786ASSEIMLY1

The Premier: The main portion, the not strike a sewerage rate until the pro- tanks and filter beds, bad been in opera- mises had the convenience of the system, tiobn for months. and therefore, so far as six-sevenths of Ron. PRANK WILSON: But th~e the interest and sinking fund bill in con- whole system was not in operation for nection with the cost of the original works months. was concerned, that was a charge against The Premier: The whole system will. the capital cost of the works at the pres- never he completed. ent time. The 2,000 householders who had Mr. Mongear: I want to know if there been connected could not he made to pay, was any protest- all the interest and sinking fund for the The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member whole of the system. That would not is out of order in speaking without rising be fair. His own house was connected, to address the Chair. and, he was paying a sewerage rate, but Mlr. Monger: I want to ask, was there why should he be asked to contribute in ever an occasion when the leader of the that rate a suifficient sum of money to pay Opposition occupied a seat upon the Min- the proportion of those hon. members isterial benches that he was afraid to go whose premises were not connected? fully- The Minister for Works: We declare, The CHAIRMIAN: The bion. member is an area, and as it is connected the house- out of order. holders pay. Hon. PRANK WILSON: These works Hon. FRANK WILSON: had been carried out by the Public Works As soon as the Minister Department and evidently now, so the was in a position to order Minister thoughlt, the time was ripe to a man to couple up his house, he couldt transfer them to the Metropolitan Water- rate him, but even then he must allow a works and Sewerage Department. it reason ahle timie for the house to be con- might be right to do so, but even to-day niected. If the Minister could not couple it would not be right to charge the whole up. a house for two or three years, he was not going of the interest and sinking fund to the to rate the property, surely!I revenue that he could collect from those Re must not administer the system in a houses which were connected up with the Shyloekian manner. Therefore, he held system. On the Minister's own showing that there was a certain proportion of only one-seventhi of the houses to be ulti- the interest hill which the Minister was miately connected with the system were not justified in saddling the reveanue -with. connected. That interest must ha charged up and The Premier: Ultimately? There winl adjusted. The Minister had reeled off a always be fresh connections. lot of figures with regard to the interest.. It was impossible to remember them, but Hon. FRANK WILSON: Would the one couild take the published report of Premier allow him to make his -remarks the department for the year ended 30th without so inuch interruption? He was June, 1911, in which the figures were set not reading from a draft by the Under down most explicitly and there was no Secretary, but was drawing upon his getting away from them. miemory of the facts. The Minister for The Premier: Is there anything down Works the other night had stated dis- fot house connections? tinctly, and had repeated it in an inter- view in the Press, that 2,000 premises Ron. FRANK WILSON: No. had been connected,' and that there were The Premier: That makes all the dif- still 12.000 to be connected. feren ce. The Minister for Works : That is Hon. FRANK WILSON: It did not. roughly the position. The Minister was calculating on the total Hon. FRANK WILSON: That meant of the house connections. The hon. mem- that about one-seventhi of the number was ber could, not tell the Committee that already connected. From the 12,000 still 1,200 connections had cost ninety thou- to be connected the department could not sand pounds on the deferred payment raise any revenue. The Minister could system. [22 NOVEMBER, l1]2.) 3787

The Minister for Works: It is mostly Hon. FRANK WILSON: Why did all done on deferred payments. not the Premier strike it last year? Hon. FRANK WILSON: Most of the The Premier: We did. big hotels in the City had paid for their The Minister for Works: I struck it -conneetions, and a number of private when the Government took office. houses had done the same. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Minister The Premier: That would not affeet struck it when the responsible officers Lthe ultimate position. said certain areas should be rated. Ron. FRANK WILSON : It did, be- The Premier: You dodged it. ceause there was a balance of revenue com- ing from this department into Consoli- Hon. PRANK WILSON: That was -dated Revenue. not so. The departmental officers brought The Premier: We have brought to ae- it along each year. count all payments for house connections. The Premier: They brought it to you. Ron, FRANK WILSON: But there Ron. FRANK WILSON: Never. The was a balance of £24,000. Premier was meaking a misstatement. The Premier: To meet the charges The Premier: It was brought bef ore -Anider a special Act- your Minister then. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The depart- lion. FRANK WILSON: No; per- nieat had- no right to meet those charges. haps it was just before the previouis Gov- The great proportion of the charges mutst ernment went out of office. These things go to capital expenditure. The depart- were not d[one wvhen the Government and ment had no right to saddle the present their hands full fighting an election. The ]householder with all the interest and sink- Premier would not do so when it came to ing fund. his turn. All these things were left until The Premier: You aire shifting your after the election, and if the Government round. w~ere defealed their successors had to do Hon. FRANK WILSON: All along he it. It was an understood thing that no- bad 'been pointing oat the unfairness of thing of vital imaportance to policy xvas -saddling the householder, who at present transacted uintil after an impending elec- bad the advantage of the scheme, with the tion. It was -whole of the interest and sinking fund idle to labour the question, notwithstanding that the iNlin ister might for the whole of the houses to be con- juggle his figures. and the Premier 'might -nected. hring a statement to substantiate the in- The -Minister for 'Works: TIhe rate has terest and sinking-fund charge, not-with- been struck. standing that he maight say he was going Ron. FRANK 'WILSON: The trouble to pint the whole of the liability on the -was that the Estimates had been drafted shoulders of the few citizens whose pre- and amnounts put in, and the M1inister mises were coupled up with the systemn, had to make some explanation as to why he was going to carry the Estimates they were there. through, though there was an Act of Par- The 31imister for Works: The rate was liamtent which hie was defying in carrying ,striick immediately the G-overnment took them through. It was not right to carry the Estimates, and the Mlinister could as Hon. FRANK WILSON: The rate had easily concentrate his management, :alwa ys been struck. whether hie worked under the Act or The Minister for "Works: You should uinder the amending Bill, which would -have tackled it before the election. enable him to treat it purely and simply Ron, FRANK WILSON: There were as a Government department. The sev- -very few houase connections thent. eral sub-departments of the different The 1Minister for Works:- There were iter supplies could be controlled and '90. nin in the interests of the section of the The Premier: It was time you lied a community they belonged to just the same -Tate struck. tinder existing legislation without muda- 378S 788[ASSEMBLY.] duing up the flnances with the finances olf iiient so far as [ lie management ivas con- the State. cerned. hut each had to keel) its own ac- The Premier: If it is just the same, counts. %ilhv quarrel with the method? Tlie MAinister for "Works: As far as the lion. FRANK WILSON: When would book-keeping is concerned it will be to- the Premier get sense and understanding. day. The M1inister for Works had said they Hon. FRANK WILSON: It could not must bring all these departments under be if it was to figure in the Estimates, one head; it was an amalgamation scheme because provision was made for the whole thant would be economical, and that was exp~enditure, and prevision was made for the reason the amount appeared in the the revenue to go into consolidated re- Estimates. The Minister admitted it venue. Supposing £100,000 of revenue was illegal, and so did the Premier, and was estimated and £120,000 wits receivedp the Committee were told that the Govern- t would go into revenue. Under the Esti- ment would bring in legislation, and that mates it would not be possible to do other- a Government department would be wvise. The Premier should delete this formed. The Premier said hie believed item., and let the department stand under that was necessary f or the economical the existing statute until Parliament an- running of the amalgamiated department. thorised the Government b v a new Bill The depaitment could be run as economi- to do otherwise. cally under thle Act as under any repeal- The PREMUIER : It was not necessary ing measure. The Governmient could have to continue the debate as it would all have amialgamila ted these branches and still run to he gone over again when the Bill, the them under separate Acts and under second reading of which he anticipated separate accounts. Wheit the Bill was would be moved on Tuesday next, was introduced in 1909, members would recol- before the House. Hfe believed he had lect that the great exception taken was adopted the correct course. In view of' that they feared the Government intended the fact that the Government had decided to make the metropolitan water supply to definit el y amial gamate the wale r supply, area One area1 and strike a uniformn rate. sewerage and drainage of the metropoli- The Fremantle members protested be- tn area, provision should be made in. cause they had only a Od. rate;, the -Clare- accordance with the Government policy mont members protested because they had on the current Estimates. If that was not only ti 9d. rate, whereas in Perth the rate done, the leader of thle Opposition, merely was Is. or Is. 6d. They asked whether it out of opposition to the Governmnent. more was the intention of the Government to thaii anything else, wvould, when the Bill amalgamnate these schemes and make a caine dowiv, take the Grovernment to task uiniformi rate, and his reply was, "No, for haviug decided to do this withouit the provisions are in the Bill to keep them making- provision on the Estimates for separate, and uintil we get~ a. uniform it. The House had heen tl that thle water supply and systemu of sewerage we Government had decided to amialgamnate cannot think. of striking a uniform rats." the water supplies in accordance with Therefore they were kept separate. it their policy, which had been empha~tically was provided 'that tile metropolitan area endorsed by the people at the last elec- should be divided into dish-icts, the Fre- tions. Mkembers of the Opposition had mantl~e district, the Claremont district, said it would be in the interests of the and Perth district, and ultimately, though State and of the water supplies that they it had not yet been achieved, the Guild- should be amialga mated. It wonld be pos- ford and Midland Junction district, so that sible to get more expert advice when the each stood on its own hottom and its ac- supplies were concentrated than by hav- counts could he kept separate, and so that ing different branches in different de- each should only pay for the services it lpartmcnts. That having been accepted, received for its rates. That was the ar- the Government did what they considered rangement. It was a Government depart- was the correct thing. 'When bringing- [22 NovEMBER, 1912.] 37SD71

flown the finances, the Government tried done, and the time had arrived when the to show members exactly where it was interests of the country as a whole shoul~d anticipated revenue would be received, be considered. If the taxpayer in the and how much and in what direction it country districts wvho was developing the was intended to expend it. Surely there land under adverse conditions was was more wisdom in that method than, pledged to the expenditure of huge sums in continually expending money without in the metropolitan area, it was the dutiy members having a comlplete knowledge of of the metropolitan area to assist him. it. It was linle that, after all the same Mr. Nanson: We are doing it. result was obtained without altering the law as it existed, but was it not better The PREMIER.: If it should be found to have a law which would cause opera- eventually that we were operating water lions to be carried on as desired by Par- supplies and sewerage in Perth at such liament rather than later on to have a a small price that it would mean practi- inix up with separate officers claiming to cally no payment by the taxpayers, would be put under one Act and others under we make the taxpayer in the country pa) another until there wvas chaos? All the all the charges of government? The peo- Oioverniment were doing was to legalise ple in the country would not tolerate that [the carrying on of the wvater supplies by for a moment. The leader of the Oppo- one department under the new Bill, and sition said the Government had 110 righnt the books in the meantime would be kept to charge the people who were getting the as under the existing law. There was no servce until the scheme was completed. change in the operations of the Depart- The day would never come when the ment, and all the books had been kept scheme was completed as far as house separate. Hie had explained previously connections were concerned. Melbourne that, when the new law was operating and had a scheme which was supposed to have the Estimates were passed, the Govern- been completed years ago, and connections nient would still produce a proper balance were still being made at the rate of 4,000 sheet and profit and loss account for every a year. The main sewers were construc- undertaking in the Water Supply Depart- ted almost without exception and the inent. Whilst the supplies were amal- septic tanks had been completed for years, gamated and brought under one set of while the sewerage beds, and even the new offices, the books would be kept separate, ones that had to be constructed owing to -%ad at the end of the year a proper the faulty construction of the previqus balance sheet and profit and loss account Government, had been completed for would be submitted for the information years, yet the general taxpayer was pay- of members. When he made that state- ing the interest and sinking fund charges. ment members applauded him, and said Could -we tolerate it any further? It it was what was desired. That opinion was a difficult position the previous Gov*- had been expressed for years, but for ernmeiit were not game to face. Already some reason there had been a difficulty in the present Government had been ap- obtaining complete information. proached to write off thousands and thou- sands of money expended on the pledge Air. Nanson: Supposing you have a of the general taxpayer in connection surplus in the metropolitan department? with the operation of the scheme, and The PREMIER: That was a matter to had it not been written off the people be dealt with in the Bill. The time had of the metropolitan area could never carry .arnived when we should consider this the burden. Yet the lender of the Ojpo- qu~stion from the point of view of the silion talked of overcharging the people of State as a whole, and not from the stand- the metropolitan area. They would be point of the metropolitan area. The com- overcharged now in order to see That they plaint of the people in the country was ultimately got the services at a reasonable -that taxpayers in the country were rate. Prior to the 30th June, 191.1, the pledged to the expenditure of money in department had placed before the Minis- the metropolitan area, and that had been try of the day the necessity for fixing A 31-90 790[ASSEMBLY.] * sewerage ratb, but that Ministry deliber- because to-day in the higher levels it was- ately refrained fromn doing it and, kept absolutely impossible to get any water shelving the matter and throwing it into between .5 o'clock and S o'clock at night? pigeon holes Luntil finally (lie department The MINISTER FOR WORKS: The- had to lpresent this report to Parliament- inconvenience caused last year to the No sewerage or drainage rates have people generally, on the highest levels Yet been levied, and consequently (ile would be obviated shortly by the comple- raltepayvers in thle areas proclaimed for Lion, at the cost of £40,000, of a huge. ronIll)U1501 connections; are using the storage reservoir onl Mlount Eliza. Tha sewers without charge, the civic authori- 2in. and lin. pipes that Find originally ties declining to rebate any lproportion served scattered outlying districts in the- of their sanitary rate until the sewerage Suburbs were being replaced by Sin, and rate be struck. It is hoped that the sew- 4in. mains. This year there was a vast erage and drainage rates will be struck improvement on whiat existed last year. for the coming year. Vote put and passed. Yet the hon. member tried to make it ap- Department of Colonial Secretary pear that the previous Government dlid (Hon. J. 31. Drew, Miaister-Uoa. W. C. everything possible in this direction. It Angwin, H-onora ry Minister, in charge of was a matter that needed some careful the votes). handling, and so that it would not affect Vote--Offlce of Colonial Secretary, the result of the general election it was £15,299: pigeon-holed. The adjustment came from Hon. W, C. ANGWIhT in introducing the present Government, and the lion. the E'stimiates for the departments eon- member knew the agitation that was likel 'y trolled by the Colonial Secretary said: to arise shortly in connection with the In dealing- with these Estimates, members charges on the imetropolitan people for will realise that thle 'Minister controllingo sewerage and drainage. The position, as the department is in another place, and the present Government found it,. was consequently 1 amn not so well versed in that, instead of the people in the metro- thle circumstances of the department as politan area carrying the burden and do- other Alinisters. are in dealing with the ing something to reduce the deficit, the Estimates of their departments. I sup- people in the country were doing it owing pose there are more sub-depatments un- to thp action of the previons Grovernment. der the control of the Colonial Secreary The hon. member talked of continuing than under the control of any other Min- the scheme until it was completed and ister, not excepting the Treasurer, and the adding the interest and( sinking fund various things to be contended with in charges to the capital cost. That would this department, are matters of adminis- mean this year adding £E2S,000 to the tration only, though this year's Estimates £500,000, and eventually the capital charge provide for one or two trading concerns. on the people of the metropolitan area If lion, memubers will look at last year's would be two or three millions, aind how expenditure they will find thiat it was, were they to carry it-? It would be im- F431,717, which was £E52,504 more than possible. The sooner interest and sinking- the expenditure in 1910-11. Last year fund was charged to them tile less interest £208,000 was spent by the department en- and sinking fund they would have to pay trusted with the care of the sick and in- onl the whole scheme and the less burden firm;- that is £44,000 more than was spent they would have to carry. The action of in thle previous year. Unfortunately, the Government -was not in the interests during the period -when it was necessary of the people of the country who were to curtail expenditure, these departments. being robbed for the sake of the people in were those in which the curtailment was the metropolis, but it was absolutely in made, consequently it' was found neces- the interests of the metropolitan area. sary, in order that these people should be Mr. LEWIS: 'What had been done to looked after in a proper manner, that an impirove the metropolitan water supply, ifnT0crs should be made in this direction, [22 NovEmosEt, 1912.] 31370t so this year's Estimates provide £20,000 who arrived in the Slate under the as- more for this department than was pro- sistance of the Government was 9,097, ain vided in the year 1910-11. The estimates increase of 1,95 over the previous year. of expenditure this year for the depart- I believe that the step taken to try as far mnents controlled by the Colonial Secre- as possible to confine our immigration to tary amount to L505,644i, an increase on nominated passengers is beneficial not last year's expenditure of £,73,927. This only to the immigrants but also to tho large increase has been brought about State, 'because it has a tendency to bring principally through the introduLction of into the State a large number of peusois niew services suchi as ferries and steam- who have family relatives alreadyv settled ships, which account for approximately here. £62.000 out of the £73,000 increase. The Hon- Frank Wilson: We do not always other increases are chiefly in Charities ge11tthe right class by that. £:9,160, Lunacy 3,567, Medical and Health Hon. W. C. ANOWIN: The Agent X7,522, and Police £C3,534, while Abori- General has been instructed in every in- gines, Gaols, and other small departments stance to turn down applicants if be finds showed decreases of approximately the persons nominated are not suitable £12,000. In accordance with the Public to come to Western Australia, and hie has Service Commissioner's classification there carried out this on more than one occai- has been a change during the year in re- sion. It is only right that the Agent Gen- gard to the Immigration Department, ad eral should be in this position. He is in this has now been placed under the con- a position to say whether a person is suit- irol of the Under Secretary. Previously able, and be will take care that no one there was a secretary controlling this de- can arrive here who is not suitable. The partmient which, in. addition to the TJour- assisted immigrants for some considerable ist nti General Information Bureau time consisted principally of farm work-- also controlled the Immigration Labour ers. As a matter of fact, I do not think Bureau, It has been tlouglit advisable the Agent General would approve of any- that the Government Labour Bureau one to come except he was a farm worker, should deal with all applications and reg- bitt I admit that for some considerable istrations for employment as it had pre- time previous Agents General were inu- viously. The alteration which had been formed that it was not necessary that made -was only for a trial, and it was they should allow only farm workers to thought advisable, not only in the inter- come. Consequently we had several com- ests of those coming into the State as im- ing out, snuli as a solicitor's c-lerk and migrants, but also in the interests of those others under the designat ion of farmn in the State, that every one should have a lahourers. The Government thought it fair opportunity for any positions open well, and I think rightly so, that during thle for employment, so that the Immigration dry season when wvork in the country' v a' Labour Bureau was closed and the work scarce on account of the failure Of the was again taken lip by the Government harvest , to ask the Agent General to Labour Bureau. The Tourist Depart- cease his operationis to a large extent iii ment has becn transferred to the Treasury. regard to assisted immig-rants. That was Hon. Frank Wilson: Who is going to done last year, and he was asked to en- run the Tourist Department in the Trea- deavour as far as possible to send out the sury?~ wives and families of those persons wAbo Hon, W. C. ANO-"WIN: it is under the were already settled here. Since that State Hotels branch. We have been ac- time there has been arriving in the Slate c1used~ of trying to stop immigration. I a larger number of women and children would like to point out that if stopping thtan has ever been the ease before. The immigration brought about the result of Agent General, however. has round somne the past 12 months, I maintain there are difficulty in getting steamers to bring out ijo grounds for the statements that have the nominated passeng-ers. and more par- been made, as during the year the number ticularly is this so when these pt'sseug'ersi 3792 3792ASSEMBLY.] are women and children. The shipping Hoa. W. C. ANGWVIN: It is a matter companies prefer single men as passen- of impossibility to get additional ships to gers. Only a few weeks ago I had a com- bring out the nominated immigrants who plaint lodged that one of the steamers desire to come to Western Australia. The that came here recently with immigrants nominations are keeping up to the stand- was not full. I pointed out to the repre- ard, and number 150 weekly. It will be sentative of the company that there was seen, therefore, so far as the Government no necessity to come out here unless it are concerned, everything possible is be- was with a full ship, and I asked the ing done to keep uip the tide of immigra- reason why the vessel came out with some tion. We believe that the future pros- empty berths when there were many im- perity of this State does not altogether migrants in England waiting the oppor- depend upon bringing single men out to tunity to come out. I was then asked Western Australia, but that the State can what class of passengers they were, and best be built up by bringing out the wives 1 replied that a number were women and .and families of those who are already children. I was then informed that the here. During the present year an altera- vessel had berths only for single men. tion has tbeen made in regard to the pas- Hon. Frank Wilson: There were sage charges. It was thought advisable plenty of single men ready to come out. that throughout Australia there should Don. W. C. ANGWIN4: The matter he a uniform rate, and conditions of ad- was in (he hands of the Agent General. mission of immigrants, and at the last It will be seen that we are doing every- Premiers' conference the matter was thing we can. Up to the end of this taken into consideration, and the rate year we have 3,129 passengers booked, was fixed that each male passenger should and we have approximately at the pre- he charged a minimum of £C6. This is an sent time in addition 4,000 persons wait- increased fare so far as Western Aus- ing for passages to the State. tralia is concerned of £3. For females Air. Naiusoa: Can you mention how the minimum rate was fixed at £3, this they are divided, the adult males, and the being an increase of Li over the original adult females? fare to this State. The age limit was Hon. W. C. ANOWIN: I have not that also fixed and no person is now allowed information with me. an assisted passage who is over the age H~on. Frank Wilson: What did the of 45 years if he is married, and single Premier mean wh~en lhe said that the Gov- females over the age of 30. erment were closing down on immigra- 31r. Nanson : When did Ihis come into tion ? force? Hon. IV. C. ANGTW]N: That was a Hlon. W. C. ANGWIN: On the lst wrong report in the newspaper, bitt the A pril last. ft has not affected the volume Premier can reply to that himself. There of nominated immigrants ait all. The was ain increase of 1,953 over the pre- difficulty is to get steamers to bring out viouis year. The total declared capital these nominated immigrants. During the brought to the State by these people year a. ehninge was made in the immigra- was £71,000 as against £43,00 in the tion receiving home which was trans- previous year. Of the total number who ferred from Perth to Fremantle. This arrived in Western Australia, that is chiange was made owing to the necessity 0,697, the number nominated was 4,617. frincreased office accommodation for At the present time there arc complaints the Water Supply Departtbent. The im- being made by men who have nominated migrants' home now is situated at Fre- their families, of the delay which occurs mantle, the premises being those which from the date of nomination to the date were formerly the old men's home. This of arrival. This, however, is a matter transfer has been the means of effecting, a that cannot be avoided. saving of £1,000 in rents which were bein Mr. Turvey: Why not bring them out paid by the Government. During last year in the Government steamersl 5,035 persons passed through the home, f 22 .Novtra, 1412.1 379379 and the cost of maintaining that home showed that things were -a disgrace tc, was £1,947 and the amounit received from Western Australia. immsigrants was £831. As members are Mr. Underwood: The comments or the aware, during the first three days immi- state of the island grants are housed free of charge, and after that a small charge is made for Hon. WV.C, ANGWIN: The conditions tmailtenaiiee, but it is a rare occurrence which existed there. These lepers were as will be seen by the total expenditutre, placed on that island and on many occa- that immigrants remain at the homie sions the only water they had to wash longer than three days. The cost per themselves in was the sea, water. Hlon. head of 'bringing immigrants to Australia members will agree with me that so far is slightly over £E10. That is not all ex- as the lepers are concerned this was not pended on immnigrants' fares. A great a desirable state of affairs. We hope portion of it is spent in advertising W'est- within a few weeks that a Public Works era Australia in the old World. The Department officer will visit the other total expenditure on immigration last year islands with a view of erecting compounds amounted to £E111,1000 so that it will be to which the lepers can be transferred seen we are pay'ing a large amount on and properly attended to in the future. 'our immigration policy. Some comments lion, mnembers have also thought that have been made during the debate on the mnore reserves should be made for the abo- general Estimates regarding the control rigines, and I have to inform the Com- of the Aborigines Department. I would mittee that the Minister for Lands has set like to say that at the present timne we aside four million acres in the North- have under consideration, and we hope in West as a special reserve for aborigines. a few weeks to earry out, the question of Thus the criticism which has been levelled taking over by the M1edical Department against the Government in the past for the control of Dorre and Bernier Islands, not reserving sufficient country for the on which at the present time there are natives wvill he removed. In regard to the lock hospitals. As hon. members are Moola Bull&. station which is tinder the aware, these islands, were under the con- control of the Aborigines Department, trol of the Aborigines Department, and it there arc 330 natives there. Ron. mem- was the case of the officer in charge being hers will know that this is the cattle sta- connected with one department having to tion which was purchased for the abo- go to another department for advice. The rigines by the p~reviouxs Government and Government thought it was advisable that it was the first effort that was mnade to the Medical Department should assume break up the meat ring. While members control of all the hospitals in the Slate, opposite -were condemning us for a coni- and consequently these lock hospitals will siderable time for entering into the cattle in future he under the control of the trade they forgot to point out that they Medical Department. At Bezout Island took the first step in that direction by there are at the present time four lepers. purchasing that station. On the 1st Sep- It is intended to close this island alto- teinber, 1.910, when the station was taken gether. Recently the 1)rincipal medical over, there were 11,357 head of cattle and officer visited Dorre and Bernier Islands 282 horses there. From that date to the for the purpose of ascertaining whether 30th June last 730 head of cattle were it would be possible to send the lepers to killed for the use of the natives and for those islands where they could rceeive station rations, and] 1.159 were sold. On proper medical attention. Hon. members the 30th June last the number had in- are aware that at the present timie no one creased to 13.09.5 head of cattle and 370 is looking after the lepers at Bezout horses. It will be seen, there Fore. that Island. It is a barren island, and water the prev'ious Government have placed in has to be taken to them, and the comments our hands a very nice little station to back which were -made 'by Dr. 'Moloney when up our meat-stall at the Perth markets. he visited that island twelve months ago, Mlenber : Robbing the niggers. 3 494 874[ASP, L.]

Hon. W. C. ANOWIN:- To feed the found them all in good health and free niggers as well. During the first 10 months f rom disease. the station showed a loss of £742 but last That is the doctor's report of the last year there was a profit made of £643. inspections made. It is the intention During the year the Government brought of the department to continue these peri- down from this station 602 cattle, and the odical inspections with a view of wiping price paid delivered at Wyndham was £3 out the diseases which have been located 10s. per head. This was an increased on the stations named. An important de- price over what had been received previ- partment under the control of the Colonial ously for the Wyndham station cattle. Secretary is that dealing with charities. During the year the charity vote was ex- Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. ceeded by a very large amount, I think somewhere about £7,000 or £8,000 in [Mr. Holman took the Chair.] excess of the amount voted. That -was owing to the new regulations brought Hon. W. C. ANOWIN: Continuing on into force in regard to further assist- the subject of the Aborigines Depart- ance to be granted to widows and mnent, I may state that the cost of main- children. Tn 1909-10 there were 60 women taining indigent natives varies from 3d. assisted by monetary grants from the per head at Eucla to Is. per head in Kim- Charities Department. In 1910-11 they berley. Altogether 2,500 natives are in numbered 83, and during the year just receipt of relief, and the general expen- ended this number increased to 239, of diture for maintaining indigent natives whom 174 were widows. During the year last year amounted to £10,259. For the 2,187 persons, of -whom 1,418 were child- information of the member for Roebourne ren, received assistance. Included in these (Mr. Gardiner) who pointed out that cer- figures are 239 women on whom 736 child- tain stations in the Roebourne district ren were dependent. When, in the past were practically full of diseased natives, an app)lication was made to the Charities I may say that since the discovery of Department for aISt0ance thle Custom Was, leprosy amongst the natives the Medical under the State Children's Act, for the Department has induced the Aborigines mnothers to take the children to the State D)epartment to make periodical inspection childrens court and thus the children were of these stations on which leprosy was miade wards of the State. In my opinion found and in August of this year Dr. this practice was entirely wrong. I be- Maunsell of Roebourne visited these sta- lieve that every child, as far as possible, tions; for the purpose of inspecting the should be kept away from the court,' no natives. Under date August 22nd, 1912, matter whether it is a children's court or the doctor reported as follows:- any other form of court, because the fact of a child being brought before a court I now confirm my wire of even date, of the State leaves. a stigma on it ever I stated I had examined on in which after. Consequently I discussed thle ques- the aborigines thereon, and found no tion with the superintendent of charities ease of leprosy or contagious disease. and suggested that in future we should These stations are wvest of Roeboune assist these children without bringing in the Foitescue direction. Chirritta, them before thle court. MY idea was that '33 miles out, is owned by MINessrs. With- we could make themn similar to Stale nell Bros., as is Karratha. 36 miles out, children arid assist the mothers in their and adjoining Chirritta. Balmoral (0 maintenance -without seeking the aid mniles) is owned by Mir. James Munro, of the court at all. I am pleased -anid adjoins Karratha, and 'Mordie to say this course has been followed] (102 miles) owned by 'Messrs. Richard- out, 'and to-day there are very few son & Co.. adjoins Balmoral. T ex- amined all the aborigines emplo iyed on children brought before the court. Time Ihese runs, 47 on 'Mardie, 3 on Balmoi-al. nu~mber of pccsons receiving monetary 11 on Karratha, and 7 on Chirritta, and assistance during the year was 1.287, [22 NovrmnER, 1912.]179 3795

which represents a 96 per cent, increase sion of at house witht no rent to pay, it on the figures of the previous year. Thbe has only been necessary to assist two or atiml of the Government has been, as far three of tite family. Consequently thle as possible, to allow mothers to keel) con- niethiod adopted is that each case shall be trol of their own children. We believe conside red on its merits, aid tile assist- it is much better that a child should be anice rendered is what the superintendent kept with its mother than that it should considers necessary for thle tmaintenane be sent to any other home. of the family. Onl tile closing day of the Mir. Heitnianni: You do not al'va vs year tile department was paying £137 allow as much for them when they rentaii per week for the assistance of children. with their mothers as when they go to at As I have said. owiitg to tite fact that the terme. Itmmigration Ioiine has been removed to I-Ion. W. C. ANtiW]N: It all depends. Fremiant le, the Ol( Men's Home has been ]in some eases there aire it' the homes removed to Claremnt, where there are clhiliren, for wvlom as much as 10s. is p~aidl. 49S inmnates. tilie dail'y average being 385 bi the great majority of the chlId ren in and (iIliecost pe r capi ta per anntin 1:£25 file homne are paid for at the rate of 7T9.. 11s. 7(1.. ani inicrease of £3 3s. 4d. on thie which is the rate the mothers aire allowed lreiouts year. This is accounted for by for their maintenance. the increased cost in the contrtact for thle Mr. I'Ieil mann : That is not so. su pply of provisions, etceterat, to the home. ]]on. W. C. ANO WIN: It is so. Under The ClaretmontI home at the p resent time the system nlow in v-ogue every child is prettly fill., and I ani afraid if will he placed in a home tins been paid for at thle necessa rv in I he tnear future Io en large rate of 7s. per head per week. '['le lion. thle [ionic. At the Women's Home, The- ,member, no doubt, is alluding to a system muatle, tlte daily' average of inmnates is wich I intend to explain. 67 and the cost per head pet- atnnuml £27 ALr. H-eitmn : No, not to a ssi. 4q. 2d.. being ani ittcrease on the previous only to one ease. y-car of l 14s. ld. One matter whgichi should be referred to here is in reference I-on. W. C. ANOWIN: For some limte to the old age pensions. We have only I "'as itn a quaindary in regard( to the sys- 20 old people tin our homes wvho are in tern in voguei, and I made inqiries for the receipt of old age pensions. Any peso purpose of fintding out what factors are who is in a [ionic provided by the State is taken in to consideration it llotting assist - not eligible to receive this pension, and a ice to widows who malke application. 1 thle pension is only received in the case Cound that each case was considered onl its oif persons ordered to tle home by thle merits. There are taken into consideratiotn miagistrate when considering tlie case. In the income of the mother. what rent she a'ityoinioti. , seeing that t hese old people has to pa -y, and whether she had to pay aire tunable to look after themselves aliy amoutit at all. Tit some instances it and find it necessary lo go to the is found that while it, is'necessary lo assist hine they should be allowed the same every child in at family where the children piriv-ileges as those outside, and he able ender age, in other cases it is are ort' t.o claim tndcer- the Old Age Pensions Act; otly necessary' to assist certain members butt utili anl amnendment of the Act is of at family. I know of instances of large made it is families of yotlng children in which it impossible. The amount al - lowed to these old persons in our homes was necessary that the mother should re- under the Act is 7s. 6d. per week. I (10 main wvithl her children all thle time, and not know why ati aged person, who, if he. so was unable to go otit and earn any- was outside would be entitled to l0s, a thing, In such circumstances the whole week, cannot be allowed the full] amount family htave beetn assisted to thle extent of when hie happens to be an inmate of at 7s. per head per week, while in other cases, where some of the children were Government home. This is a question able to look after the yottnger ones nod. that for somle yeat's has r'eceiv'ed the con- petrhaps, the mother had been~in posses- sidleration of thle Superintendent *of C131] 3796 3796ASSEMBLY,]

Charities, and hie is stilt battling to get ehies was from Pier-street, and it was those old people in the homnes a right found that a lot of girls and also those I think they are justly entitled to. The who wished to employ them (lid not care total eost per hlead of population for out- to visit the women's b)ranch on account of door and indoor relief is equal to about 1 le niumiber of men who were generally one shilling-. At the old women's home congtregatcel about the inen's branch. Anl at Fremantle we have a maternity ward. alteration was effected w-hereby anl en- ,rhis is the only, training school at pre- trance could be made to the "'omen's sent in Western Australia for miid-wives. branch off Ray-st reel,. entirely awn' ,from and during1 the year 16 pupils were the mceii's, branch. Not only that, bill Mrs, granted certificates of comipetency' as Luldin. who for sonic c-onsiderable time midw4ives, and there were 43 persons had charge of the doniest ics broul-lit ou~t admitted to this maternity ward. This by the 'Immigration Departmwent, was also has increased the cost of upkeep I ranstetred to take charge of the ivom1ell .S of the home at Fremantle. The number branch of the Labour bureaul and I wish of children under the control of the State to say that her work since she has taken on the 30th June was 1,082, comprising- chlargeC has been highly sueCsfu. More 707 in the orphanages, 146 boarded out g irls go there now to register for work, with foster mothers and 229 placed out qund nmore enmployers go there to obtain oil probation. The number of children suitable girls. The registrations for the boarded out increased from 87 to 1-46. year totalled 1,450, and the engagements I may &-i'y that under the State Children's 1,456, or anl excess of 0 elingrealents Act there are 44 mothers who are being over registrations. These figures show paid the sanie rate as is being paid to that t-le work of the Labour bureau foster mothers. These are dealing with is beneficial to those seeking cm- children who have been through the court. ploynieni. -In regard to the Fisheries De- These children are under the direct pairtmcnt, sonic activity has been shown supervision of the officers of the depart- (dtring the year to see tlint greater care mient and also of the boarding out coin- was taken than previously in connec- mittees, which arc formed in various tion with the various fishing stations onl parts of the State. The nuiber of foster thle coast. The new Chief inspector ap-- cliildreii supervised during the year was pointed by our friends opposite when 260. 1 may add that we have prope-hv they were in offie is, I believe,. giving trained nur-ses; as inspectors for the ex- satisfaction, and is eadeavouring to put press purpose of assisting Poster mothers the Fisheries Department on an uip to and others in the proper care of i- date basis. Three whaling com~pan ies hare dren. There is another sub-department been g-ranted exclusive licenses having which at times comnes iii for a good deal capitals of £62,000, £45 000, and £40,000 of criticism, and that is tire respectively. The A ustralian Whaling Government Labour Bureau. Dnring company has already started operations the year 10,802 men registered for onl the west coast with a fleet consisting of work, and the engagements totalled four steami whalers, each of about SO tons, 7,261. There hlave Lbeen 2,15S railway and one factory ship of about 3,000 tons. T7p passes granted to persons who wished to to date 150 whales, eauhl havinlg anl es- go into the country to employmient, and timated value of about £80, have been I ami pleased to be able to say that 70 per en pturod and treated. Ltlder t he terms of cent. of the valute of those railway passes the license land stations mnust be erected has been refunded to the departmenut. for the treatment of the whole earcase of Dni-iug the year there has been a chiange thoe whale, and these stations when erected in filewomn, branch. Hon. members at different parts of the coast arc likely to will realise that the alterations inl the elIIIJlOY a, ceuSiderable number of mcei. building- at Pier-street have been benefi- ,%n exclusive license to take green back cial. For some considerable lime the en- turtle hias alco been granted to a repre- trance to both women's and men's bran- sentative of an Engllish syndicate with a [22 NovvmsuR, 1912.]170 37q7 capital of £2?5,000. The Friendly Socie- day. The mtaximum number of marks lie ties rDeipartment tins also bad considerable can obtain is eight, andi during the lime attention paid to it. I am pleased to say of his incarceration the mnarks hie gains I hat [lie capital of the Friendly Societies are taken as a guide to the remission of is, increasing considerably. The total any portion of his sentence. The lengthi membership of friendly societies at pre- of time which thle prisoner will hie kept sent is 17.637, and their capital is in, gaol depends entirely on his own £081,F41, being an increase of 1,200 mem- actions. The management of the femate bers and of U18,00 in capital. This I section of the prison has also beent think is fairly, sa isfactory. 'Ihe regis- changed. The women inmnates arc now lered unions under thle Arbitration Act, provided with work in keeping with their thle bodies which our friends opposite fre- Sex, and with. suitable clothing, and are quently say should not be taken into con- permitted healthy formns of ganmes during sideration, have a membership of 30,442, recreation time. For some considerable and a capital. of £40,529. Their toital timne before thle femnale pris~oners were iWncome du ingte 3-ear was L56,638, and enmployed al most enitirely as washerwonen, their expenditure £50.696. .I1 is well all the heavy washing for the gaol had known that there are also several unions to be done by the womaen, prisoners, but and industrial societies which are not to-day they only do the light washing register-ed under the A rbitration Act with and the male prisoners do the heavy part a considerable membership, of whichl no of the work. iLectnres tAre held periodi- details arc available. During- thle year call y for well-behaved prisoners and there somle change has been made in] connection has also been introduIced a ntew system with the administration of tine gaols. which has been inl Vogue for somle Coll- Hlon. members are aware that the Comp- siderable Lime in England. This is the troller Gleneral. -Mr. Burt, has been re- system of technical edutation by corres- fired, and the Comptroller General to-day ponidence, and Fremantle is the first place is the Under Secretary. Special atten- in Australia to adopt, this experiment. ion has been given to this depart- Whilst these reforms hiave been bron-ght pleat, and everything possible has beenL about with ai view to, if possible, assist inl lone by thie new superintendent, another tile reform of the persons sent: to the appIlointee of our friends opposite who is gaol , the Government hiave been at the also giving ev-ery satisfaction, in regard same Lime not unmindful of the staff. For to the management, pricipally of thie some years the staff have been asking for F'remantle prison. Several reforms have ain appeal board, or b~oard of inquniry, been carried out since lie has taken office. and I amn pleased to say that the Colonial Amiongst. these is the abolition of the Secretary lies agreed that so far as the special cage treatment. Rion, members Freman the staff is concerned-and I think may know that inside tilie gaol. grounds a it applies also to the staff of any other -round house was built anti those who were prisons of the State-a board of inquiry having, separate treatment ladl a special shiall be appointed on which will be a compartment with iron bars at each end, relpresentative of the staff. We have algo in which they could walk upl- anti down. conceded an eight hours' (lay in the prison. They were like beasts in a cage and veryv For years it was said that it was a matter often were kept there for some consider- of impossibility to bring about this re- able time. This inhumane treatment has form, hut the present superintendent on been abolished and in future there will taking office could see no difficulty what- ever mild he has brought the eighit 1)e no separate cage for the special treat- hours' system into existence inl the Fremantle men t eases. A mark system has heen prison. T may remark that Western Aiis- introduced into the gaol, and each prisoner tralia is the first State in the Common- can work out his own remission automati- wealth to adopt this system. The salaries call-y. Industry under the system hecomes and allowances of the staff have been a necessary complement of good conduct. dealt -with by a departmental hioard of Every prisoner can obtain six marks per advice. The changes recommended in re- 3798 3798[ASSEMBLY.]

gard to salaries have been very slight, lie kept tunder strict observation. To this but an increased lodging, allowance has ward 200 persons have been admitted been granted to the married In. during the year, and 123 have been dis- Mr, Male: When does the increased charged. Personally, I think it is neces- lodging allowance come into operation? sary that wards such as this should be Hon. W. C. ANOGWIN:. It is a mnatter. scattered throughout the State. One has of impossibility for us to dto everythng been erected at lNortham, and I believe il a minute, but 1 believe the additional there is also one at Kalg-oorl ie. It would lodlging allowance will take effect fromi Wbery unwvise if a person wvas sent direct the 1st July last. In connection with the to tLme asylum without first being subjected Harbour and Light Department, we have to tr'opcr observaf ioni. The cost per head provided for a small increase in expendi- for maintenance was £30 16s. 6d., or 14s. lure. This is almost solely attributable Id. per inmiate per week. This is an in- to the provision of uiicv lighthouses at. crease onl previous years, anti[ is Vlaming H-ead, and Port Ifedland, lead- at! -ibated to the extra cost of pro- ing lights at Port 1{cdland and Mlary visions. A departmenital hoard wvas Anune's passag-e. and patent acetylene also appointed to go into the (pites- flashing lights onl the btinburv M~ole and tioii of the conditions of thu Point King.- A lighting apparatus has the stall. Ail increase in the salaries of Ibeen imported for a light between Fre- tine niuses has, been r'eeimnended, and a mantle and Geraldton, a-nd the establish- iroiosal for the initrodnction of aa eight ment of a lighthouse at Point King- is hiours dIny fur the stall is now under eon- now under consideration. The Jetties onl ,idem-alion. A hoard of inquiry to con- the North-West coast which were previ- sider the grievances of the staff, though ously controlled hr)'this department have not r et app roved, is ider the consider-a- now been transferred to the stenuwhip Lion of the Colonial Secretary, and if ap- department. In regard to thle Lun11acy loillied will be similar to that ap~pointedl Department, which ija also uinder the under the Raiilway Act whereby the men , I mlay state that Colonial Secretary' have prinper representation. - T he Clare- new buildinigs have- been opened durning mnont farmn showed a lprofit o tine rear's the year. and a large number of the wvork oft £997, and that at; Whitby Falls, fornier inmates of Whitby Fails asylum a pr-ofit of. £233. mitring the year a dairy have been transferred to Claremont. Cari has been started at Claremont for On the 31st Deccember, 19l1. there, were the Iparpose of supplying our hospitals 844 insane persons under the control anti other Government institutions with of this department. At Claremont there toilk. 'We have 75 cows, which have been were 792, at Whithy Falls 49, and in pri- testedl and proved to be free from tuber- vate hospitals on trial. 3, anl increase of culosis. Since this farmn has been opened, 30 miales and 25 females, or a total in- 17,000f gallons of milk have been sup- crease of 55. '.hie admissions during the plied to various hiospitals such asthe Perth, year totalled 215. of whom 99 were dis- Pu1blic Hospital. the Children'sg Hospital, charged. The percentage of insane to the and I le Frenmantle Hospital, at 1s. 6d. population wvas 2.85) per thouisand. That per gallon. The estimated revenue is is a lower percentague than in any State, £1.300. and the cost of running the farmn, except South Australia. where it is £8900. Out of the difference interest and slightlyv less than in Western Australia. sinking fund has to be allowed. If roth- Thie percentage of recoveries was 36.27. mugyelse has warranted the opening up This proportion, the Inspector General of this farm at Claremont, it would be states, is very satisfactory indeed. TIhere warranted by the report, not only of the is a ward in the Perth Public Hospital commiittee, but also of the Medical Off- Where those who need supervision before cer of the Perth Children's Hospital. it being sent to the Claremont Asylum are admitted. This ward is used principally has, been pointed out that the milk sup- for those suffering from the effects of in- dlied from the Government diary lias toxicant%. and also for others Avho have to been the means of saving the lives of [22 NOVEMBER, 1912.] 37997-

many childr-en, and that being so, and we is a good deal of difficulty in altering this have no reason to doubt it, seeing- that it at once. At Broomie there is a public came front the Medical Officer, its estab- hospital maintained by the State. At lishunent has been justified even apart Port Hedland and Marble Bar hospital rroin the financial aspect. Our factories accommodation is provided by the assist. have increased from S58 to 949, which ance of the Government. At Bunbury shows that somec people still have confi- the hospital is maintained by the State, dlence in the prgrs of the State, while Busselton has only an assisted Mr. Nanson: What is your definition institution. At Katanning and Narrogin of a factoryI. the hospitals are maintained by the Moora there Hon. W. C. AINOWIN : 1 aim dealing State, but at Wagin and with the reports of the officers who are are only assisted hospitals. The system inspectors under the Factories Act, is not altogether satisfactory. If some These factories are of various classes, towns which are larger than others maint. and they are based on the term usually tamning their own hospitals, can be understood by factory. Three additional granted hospitals maintained solely by inspectors have been appointed ;one at the State, the smaller towns should cer. ]{algoorlie, one at Perth, and a lady tainly be placed in the same posijtion.. inspector. It has been found necessary The Government will consider this matter in the near future, and see if it is that there should be a lady inspector for the purpose of looking after the factories not possible to place all our hospitals on the same footing. As I explained, the where numbers of girls and women are employed, and the lady inspector's finances will have to be taken into con- but I am satisfied there is a work has been spoken of very highly- sideration, necessity for an alteration. We In regard to the Medical Department have the year in the good work which has been going on had some difficulty during getting nurses for the Governmient lios- for years in the matter of inspection of school children has been continued, and pitals. We advertised in the Eastern and there there is no doubt this work will prove States, as well as in this State. highly beneficial as the children grow up. were no nurses available. and we were compelled eventually to send to England Each child is thoroughly examined, and, for twelve nurses. The departmental if anything is found to be wvrong, reports board have also taken into consideration are sent, not only to the Medical Depart- the question of salaries paid to flumses, ment, but to the parents of the child, and have wade a small increase. and hospitals arc thrown open and free Ad- treatment is given if necessary. In ditional Medical Officers have been ap- addition, the department provides free pointed at Mt. Barker, Wickepin, ) oj- onup, Marvel Loch, Quairading, Da- spectacles for those who need them and Worsley and Youarme. Owing cannot afford to purchase them. The danup, to the increase of population in the agri- Dental Board are attending to the cultural areas consideration is being teeth of the children and if necessary given to several districts with a view to free treatment is given at the medical appointing medical officers there. Last office in Murray-street. In regard to year the Government introduced a Bill hospitals generally ;I might admit that for the purpose of utilising a portion of a good deal of difficulty has beet, ex- the National park as a site for a Sana- perienced, especially by myself, during torium for consumptives. Parliament the past year. The system in vogue at did not agree to the proposal and since present is not altogether satisfactory. then, the medical officer, accompanied In some parts of the State there are by Dr. Mitchell, who is in charge of'the assisted hospitals. T cannot see any Coolgardie, Sanatorium, the Surveyor reason why the Government should maintain a hospital in one town and not General, and 'the Chief Architect (Mr. give the same consideration to another Bewsley) have chosen a site of 3,600 town. Seeing that the question of acres at Wooroloo. This site has been finance comes into consideration, there set wside for the purpose of erecting a 3800 3800[ASSEMBLY.] sanatorium. The land has been cleared that the rights of those practising shall for the building, plans are in course of be preserved to them, but I am preparation,and we hope within the next afraid the time will not be far distant month or two to commence the work of when. in a country like this, there will be building. The Minister for Works has some outcry that we are too particular provided £15,000 on his Estimates, with in regard to midwives. It is proposed a view to commencing building oper- to erect a maternity hospital at Subiaco. ations this year. There was a small im. Plans hiave been prepared and at an early proved farm adjoining the land at date a start will be made with the build- Wooroloc, and this has been purchased ing. When this is erected there willibe so that immediately on opening the a proper training place for the nurses. institution, produce will be available for Maternity wards will also be worked in the use of the inmates. connection with various hospitals. There Mr. Turvey: Will the doctor be able has been. very little change in the Police to jtako outdoor practice ? Department in regard to increase of Hion. W. 0. ANOWIN: That is a wages as that was done last year, but the matter for consideration. The medical Government have considered and grant- officer thinks that more than one doctor ed long service leave, and any member of will be necessary and in that case one can the force after ten years' service is en- be appointed district medical officer and be titled to three months leave on full pay. available for the people in the district. On account of the increasing population During the twelve months the Health new police stations have been erected at department has displayed considerable Uwellingap, Dumbleyng, Quairading, activity in connection with the new Marvel Loch, Meri-edin, Cunderdin, Health Act. The committee on pure Three Springs. Muflewa, Ngowangerup, foods have drafted new regulations, and Tainbellup. and Denmark. The open- in April next the regulations will come ing of several other stations is now under into force. They have been advertised consideration. Hon. members will notice in the Govermnent Gazette for a consider- that there is only six months' provision able time to ascertain if there were any on the Estimates for the Observatory, complaints. I have heard of no com- but the Government have now decided plaint except one fromn the distillers of to keep open the Observatory to the end whisky, who complain that the standard of the financial year. We made repre- is too high. On account of this com- sentations, to the Commonwealth asking plaint an alteration in the standard of them to take over the Observatory, but, whisky has been postponed until the 1st as hion. members are aware, they did not July, to allow of further investigation. feel inclined to do so. Since then, we The whisky distillers not only approach- have had correspondence with the univer- ed the Agent General, but also the Im- sities of London and Edinburgh with perial Government, so we intend to give a view to keeping the Observatory open. this matter close investigation before and until the matter is thoroughly settled the standard is adopted. During the the Government have decided that the year the Midwives' Registration board Observatory shall be kept open at least have granted certificates to 633 persons. until the end of the financial year. The This is also done under the new Health trading concerns I referred to at the Act. commencement of my speech are ferries Mr. fleitman: Without much en- and steamships. .During the year ferries quiry. have been purchased, and there are Hon. W. C. ANOWVIN: With regard now ferries running to South Perth. The to the introduction of registration in a cajpital expended on the ferries is £4,322 case like this, some consideration has to 10s. and during the last four months be shown to those who have been carry- of last year the receipts exceeded the ing on this work, and I might say have expenditure by £649 13s. This year. for done it fairly well. There is scarcely a the first three or four months after slight Bill passed in which provision is not made reductions in the fares the receipts ex- [22 NOVEMBER. 1912.]

ceeded the expenditure by about £400. years, and who had been unable to The ferries'have turned out financially Secure any great experience, and yet satisfactory, but though the Government stated that the natives on these particuWar have no desire to make profits, we have stations were absolutely clean. Why, not had them sufficiently long to give the veriest tyro travelling through these any further concessions, and until we see stations could see that the disease was thoroughly what will he the position of rampant. On these stations native the ferries, no alterations will bc made, women were used as inducements to The S."tate steamships have been dealt bring Asiatics to work for cheap wages, with fully by the Premier, and it is not of no wages at all. The whole question necessary for me to again quote the of the aborigines was most uinsatis- words he has already used with regard factory. The department was run on to the cost of the steamships and their unbusinesslike lines, and was costing working, but the demand for the use of the Government a considerable amount the steamships had been considerable. of money which was Spent in catering They are fully booked up for almost all for cheap labour for the wealthy squatters. next season. I think that the Premier's In the North-West and in the Kiinberleys estimate of revenue will be exceeded, be- every able-bodied aboriginal was em- cause during the time the service has been ployed by the squatters until he was Started, the "IKwinana," the " Eucla " unfit to work any longer, when he was and the "LUna" have earned asprofit some- immediately handed aver to the State thing about £41,000, after allowing for to be maintained. working expenses, depreciation and all Mir. Moore: What would happen if charges applicable to the running of they were not employed by the squatters? Steamships. I have no doubt the Mr. GARDINER: Undoubtedly the steamers will achieve the object for State could provide for them, as the which they were purchased. I have State was compelled to do immediately great pleasure in submitting these Esti- they became unfit to work. At the mates. same time it would provide work for Vote put. and passed. white men, it would be aninducement Vote.-Aborigins, £16,374: for white men to go to that portion of Mr. GAIRDINER: The Minister had the State with a reasonable chance of made a puerile attempt to "indicarte getting work, and thus it would be the the action of the Government in refusing means of populating that part of the to comply with the wishes of Parliament State. While natives were fit to work in regard to segregating the natives the Government were prepared to allow on certain stations who were undoubtedly them to be exploited through the in- contacts with natives for whom the competency of the protectors and the Government had found it necessary Chief Protector of Aborigines, and through to establish a lazarette. A report of the mismanagement and inaladminis- the nature that the Minister quoted was tration of the whole department, which expected. But how could the Minister was run in the interests, not of the reconcile it with the report of Dr. Moloney, protection of the aborigines, nor in who had considerable experience in the interests of the State, but in the dealing with lepers, whom the Govern- interests of the wealth pastoralists who ment had appointed as an expert to go were desirous of obtaining cheap labour. through the country and report on Unfortunately the Colonial Secretary, the prevalence of the disease, and who to whom this had been pointed out, had reported that leprosy was un- Seemed powerless to deal with the doubtedly endemic on the stations question, and placed all reliance on Mr. mentioned in the Chamber when the Gale, and would not listen to reason, subject was previously dealt with ? Now would not realise the disease was ram- the Minister sought to refute Dr. pant, or that there was a system of Moloney's report by that of a gentleman slavery in existence. So nothing was who had been in a small town for many done, and the Honorary Minister to- :19(1 :1802[ASSEMBLY] night camne forward with a report from give them little else than their food Dr. Maunsell, who had been 17 years in and clothing, and very li(;tle clothing one little town, and was practically at that. W~hen shearing was over, and ignorant of any disease, who was, in there was insufficient work for them on the faoct, essentially a magistrate. This doc- station, without any license being taken tor was quoted by prove that Dr. Mol- out the natives were sent out shelling, oney was incorrect in his diagnosis of and one wae given to understand on the disease, but the big proportion of reliable informnation that the amount of the people in Western Australia would shell found by the natives was sufficient be prepared to agree that Dr. Moloney to provide the working expenses for was correct. In most of the towns we the whole station. had hionorary protectors of aborigines Mr. Mvale: Can you mne one instance and others in other capacities empowered of that? to grant permits to employ natives, and Mr. GARDINER: Mardie station, the result was that a general permit was and that was not the only one. At the granted to many in the smaller towns, De Gray station the expenses were so that native men and women were almost provided by the operations of employed in several capacities, though the natives on the coast in picking up some of them were reeking with disease. shell. There wore some acting in the capacity Mir. Male: Absolutely wr~ong. of nmrse girls, and yet the department Mr. GARDINER: At MKardie station was unwilling to interfere. If the Gov- hie was prepared to say that the natives ernment dealt with this question as they there provided sufficient shell to pay the should, instead of the North-West being working expenses of the station. The the hunting-ground of those desirous natives were also allowed to come into of employing slaves, it would be a means contact with the Asiatics brought from of providing employment for a great Singapore for the purpose of pearling. many white people. Evidently the The result was that the natives had Colonial Seeretary was unwilling to contracted the disease of leprosy. Al- deal with this question. If he had any though many of them had been knowledge of the department, if he segregated, and although medical ex- realised the possibilities that would ports had diagnosed the disease as exist if lie dealt with it, hie would make leprosy, and reported it as such, and drastic alterations. The present con- recommended that the natives should ditions were absolutely no improvement be segregated, we bad 'the Honorary on those existing years ago. Go where Minister saying on behalf of the one would, lie would find pastoralists Colonial Secretary that the disease with, power to employ natives. Many did not exist. The thing was absurd. hon. members opposite knew stations Any one who went through the district that would not employ a white man. could not help noticing that the disease Mr. Male: I do not know one. was rampant amongst the natives of Mr. GARDINER: The member for this part of the country, and the Minister Greenough [mew that M~ardie would not quoting from the report of a medical employ more than one white man to man who should have been removed the shears. sharpen years ago told the House that the disease Mr. Nanson : When 1 was there there did not exist. It was a most undesirable were several white men. state of affairs to allow medical prac- Air. GARDlINER: Last year the only titioners; or district medical officers to man employed other than the manager remain in a small town for a long time. was a man to sharpen shears. What must the result be? Here we Mr. Male: Absolutely unadulterated found that Dr. Mounset] had been sent rubbish ! to Boebourne 17 years ago. The en- Mr. GARDINER: Why should those vironment, and the conditions of exist- people, possibly po~ssessed of great wealth, ence there must necessarily cause him be empowered to employ natives to to drift in to a certain groove, and what [22 NOVEMRFR, 1.912.] .380:3

was the result ? Through being there it would have been detrimental to Dr. 17 years and being isolated from civil- Moloney and no one else. Twelve months isation almost, that officer was not afterwards another doctor was sent now fit to hold his position. up to see whether the disease had taken The CHAIRMAN: Was the hon. any further hold and the report -which member dealing with the medical officer had been read earlier in the evening in charge of the lock hospitals at the was the result, of the investigation made pre-ent timne ? this year. It -was all very well for thle Mr. GARDINER: Yes. This officer hon. member to come to the House and or any other who was allowed to remain talk a lot of rot. in one town so long naturally became Mr. Gardiner: You would not have biassed, and being biassed was not understood me if I had talked anything fit to hold his position. In the interests else. of every one a medical officer in these Hon. W. C. ANOWIN : The hon). parts should not be allowed to hold member said that the aboriginal women his office for more than five years. The were kept on the stations as decoys for Honorary Minister should insist onl the cheap Alsiatic labour. He had only wishes of the people being carried out thle hon. member's word for that and he in the direction of segregating the '4dis- was loth to believe that some of thle eased nhltives who were onl the station. station owners were so debased as to This was the wish embodied in the do what. the hon. member had suggested. resolution which was carried unanimouisly The hon. member's remarks, it was in Parliament. But the Minister pre- clear, were due to the prejudice that ferred to shuffle and twist over this he had against the medical officer who question, as was evident by his action was sent out to make the investigation. after what the expert had stated that With regard to the statement that we the disease was rampant, and was should remove the medical officers in endemic, end that in the interests o; these outback places every five years, the community the natives should be the difficulty of that was; apparent. It isolated. Whatever the Minister might would be impossible for the State to do in the way of asking an irresponsible carry out such a suggestion unless it and a second rate man to justify the was prepared to find the money with attitude of the Government lie (M1r, which to pay a medical officer an adequate Gardiner) would not accept it, neither salary. If this could be done there would the people of the North-West, would be no difficulty about transferring nor of the whole State accept it. He him from place to place, just as any hoped the Honorary Minister would other officer might be transferred. These insist on the wishes of Parliament being medical officers in the North-West were carried into effect, and that he would only subsidised by the Government and refrain from making puerile attempts it would be impossible, therefore, to tell to shuffle with the question, as he had any one of them that they would have done this evening. to clear out of the district, If it was Hon. WV.C. ANGWIN: The hon. possible to remove medical officers after member had dealt with a report which they had spent a few years in the North- was West to a place w'here the climate was given 12 months previously. Dr. Moloney went out with insti notions to more congenial, it would be of advantage gather in all those natives suffering from to do so, but we had not got to that stage contagious disease, and he managed whereby we could pay every medical to get t we or three, and he was supposed officer a full salary. to have cleared the stations of every Mr. Dlooley: What does the subsidy person suffering from leprosy. amount to? Mr. Gardiner: Have you reed his Ron. W. C. AKOWIN: Dr. Maunsell report ? wee an officer of the Crown Law De. Hon . W.- C. AKOTWIN:- Yes, If pertinent and he was also resident there had been any leprosyv at that time mangistrate and district muedical officer, 31S04 [ASSEMBLY.] and his salary speaking from memory, ,Mr. Male: I would take it before Dr. was £C425, Of course hie had the right Maunsell's. of private practice. Just fancy any Mr. UNDERWOOD: But the lion. professional man going to Roebourne member 'was in the North-West too long. and only being able to earn £425! When Dr. Moloney was a proved expert on the member for Roebourne had lived a leprosy, having had 20 years experience little bit longer lie would be able to give with lepers, while Dr. Man sell was a such things as this better consideration. man of no experience whatever. How- The hion. member might be informed ever lie had no desire to enter into a that the Government had reserved discussion about Dr. Maunsoll, but from 4,000,000 acres in the North-West for what lie had heard along the coast it the use of the natives. This information would be advisable if the department had already been given to the Committee ivere, to move Dr. Maunsell to some other but the hon. member was absent. part of the State and give Roebourne Mr. Gardiner: Where is it ? a trial with some other medical officer. Hon. W. C. ANOWIN: In the North- When speaking to this question on a West, but lie could not state exactly previous occasion he had declared it was where. The hion. member was also Dr. Hope's duty to attend to this; but absent when. the report of the medical it was pointed out to him that it wag not officer, who had been senit out this year in Elhe department of the Commissioner to investigate the diseases amongst of Public Health. Notwithstanding this natives, -was read to the Committee. in his (Mr. Underwood's) opinion any- Mr. Gardiner: How many natives thing and everything that affected th did he see ? health of the people of Western Australia Hon. W. C. ANOWIN: He saw 47 was or should be in Dr. Hope's depart- at Mardie, three at Balmora], sloven at maent. If on receiving a report as to Karratha, and seven at Chirribta. Until the existence of leprosy in the North- we got something to the contrary hie West Dr. Hope had found that the would not be prepared to take the Aborigines Department was not taking opinion of the lion, member. Ho (Mr. proper steps to stamp out the disease Angwin) would not presume as a layman it was Dr. Hope's duty to have brought to put his opinion against that of a the matter under the notice of the medical officer, So far as hie know, Minister and take every possible action everything was being done that it was to remedy the evil. possible to do to keep the State free from Hon. W. C. Angwift: He sent Dr. leprosy, and to relieve the natives who Maloney uip. were suffering from contagious diseases. Mr. UNDERWOOD: And had subse- Mr. Gardiner: Your actions are not quently failed to act on Dr. Maloney's a tribute to your intelligence. report. However, there would presum- order! The CHAIRMAN:. Order! ably be a discussion on Ilr. Hope's de- Hon. W. C. ANOW[N:- In every case par tinont at a later stage of the Estimates, where disease had been foutnd, the natives and this question could be deferred until had been placed in the lock hospitals then. The question of aborigines was for medical treatment. He resented the the most difficult problemn the State had statement of the hon. member when he to solve. The longerthe question was con- said that the women were kept on the sidered the more difficult did it become. station-. as decoys for Asiatic labour. We had in the State large numbers of Mr. Hudson: You are "Somewhat aborigines whom it was imipossible to unsophisticated. civilisie or Christianise. Nor could we Mr. UNDIERWOOD: I's regard to absorb them into the white population. the question of the segregation of natives We were compslled to look at this thing at M~acdie and other stations in the Roe- fairly and squarely, and the only con- bourne electorate, in the race of Dr. clusion one could arrive at was the sooner Maloney's report hie did net feel too secure the aborigines in Western Australia died in taking the word of Dr. Maunsell. out the better for all concerned. We [22 NovEmBER, 1922.] 303805 could not preserve the aboriginal race. trate or by a policeman. This new nor could we settle the white race in those system had undoubtedly saved the Qov- parts inhabited by the aborigines. The erment thousanlds of pounds;, 'while at administration of the , Aborigines De- the samne time it insured more rations partment bad never been satisfactory, to the natives. Recently the Women's and even to-day it was not as good as It Labour Conference had suggested the should be, although considerable in- appointment of women inspectors and proveinents had been made. The present protectors of the aborigines in the North- Chief Protector had not a proper idea West. It would be found a practical of what his duties were, and it seemed impossibility for women to travel alone likely that there was a considerable through that country. Such a protector amount of money spent in the office in would have to travel with grass-fed Perth, and by inspectors arid protectors. hor-ses, camp out a great deal of the time, -which could be better spent in relieving hunit her own horses, and, in some cases, the condition of the natives or, alter- travel for longm stages without water. natively, saved to the Treasury chest. And providing that she could get over in the first four lines of the Estimates, the country, what good could she do of the department over £3,000 was allo- when she got there ? What possible cated for salaries. Under the Constitu- good could she do to the native women7 tion we were compelled to expend £10,000 per annum on the natives, and in addi- IMr. lcDowaU teooAthe C7hair.] tion to that we were expending this year something like £18,000. Undoubtedly Mr. Heitmann -She would want a there was room for considerable reduc- protector herself. tieon, if the money was not required for Mr. UNDERWOOD: That was not the relief of natives. He complimented so, because any women would be per- the department on the imp roved method fectly safe in that country ; but what in dealing with the natives afflicted with good could such a woman render to the venereal diseases. The hospitals onl the native women ? As a matter of fact islands lBernier and Dorme were undoubt- the native women were, a few of them, edly doing a very good work, and to a. employed as house girls on the various great extent stamping out the disease. stations, while a few more were to be Still, more work could be done than was found in similar employment in the being done in this regard. There was small towns, the remainder trailing about an enormous area covered by the col- the bush. It had been suggested that lectors of the diseased natives, not-with- on the grounds of morality we shouldi standing which, there were only one or have women inspectors, but he did not two men at the work, and it of ten. occur- know that so impracticable an appoint- ed that these collectors between them ment could be justified on these grounds. did not get over the whole of the It was only proposed to appoint two area once a year. The disease women as inspectors, and these would could not ' be thoroughly stamped have to go over the whole of the North- out unless more inspection was given W~est, including Roebourne, Pilbarra to the condition of natives. He and Kimberley, which would necessitate congratulated the department on the remarkably good travelling if they were improved system of distributing rations to get round once a year. And, after to the aborigines. In the past there had all, the moral effect would be nil, seeing been a great waste, if waste it could be that the policemen got round once a called, when money went to those for month and yet, with all their powers whom it not been voted, namely, the under the Act, their visits had no moral people who in the past had allegedly effect whatever. What, then, could be supplied the natives at so much per hoped for from the annual visit of a head. This system had been practically woman in the capacity of travelling abolished, and the food supplied was protector ? It had been argued that nnw supervised by the resident muagis- a woman inspector could do just as much 3806 8805ASSEMBLY.] good as a male inspector, and in that cause it. would take about two years for he concurred.; because in his opinion one person to cover the whole district the good that travelling inspectors did that Mr. ledell had control of, and with was absolntely nil. Mir. Isdell. was the ten each district could be visited inspector for his (Mr. Underwood's) five timues in a year. Even then the electorate, and for the country south amount of protection that could be given and west in the loebourne electorate. would be very smiall and certainly not But MNr. ladell had not been seen in any worth the wages which would have to be of these districts for the lest five or paid to the inspectors, to say nothing of five and a half years. The only effect horse feed. In regard to the general arising from the appointment of these segregation of natives, a good deal of inspectors was to make the management sentimenit and not too much actual fac;t a little more costly, and to delay any was heard. We had first to consider transactions one might have with the what we were aiming at in regard to the department. If a complaint camne aborigines. It had been requnested that, down fromi the North-West to a member the Government should set aside reserves in Perth the member would take that so that the natives might livre their life- complaint to the office in Perth, from in their o-wn. way. That meant that which it would be despatched to Air. tile whole of the 'North-West would have Isdell, then probably at Wyndham, to be set aside. Once civilisation got anrd Mir. Lsdell would send a reply. in the conditions miust 1)e alteredl fr the This mneanit three months for the message aborigines, and to talk of allowing the in to reach Air. Isdell at, perhaps, Hiall's to livc their own. lives in their own Way Creek, and three months for it to get was to talk of pulling the whole of' back to 'Ar. Gale in Perth. the white settlemnent, out. of the North- Air. Male: He is in charge of the food WNest, and hie would like to know whether depot in Wyndham. those advocating this segregation policy Air. UNDERtWOOD): One was grateful. intended that. It had been requiet to the hon. mnember for having found that the Government should start. cattlo that oflicer. So far as practical exper- or sheep stations to provide food for the natives. It had to be rcicmbcrcd. that ience ;vctst the real protectors of abori- gmnes were the various magistrates. A if we fed the natives we would bt build[ good magistrate looked after the natives ing up the race. As a matter of fact, to some extent and had an influene for tile reason why that country had been as natives a considerable radius round the centre so sparsely populated, so far where hie resided. That occlurred. in tile wlere concverned, was the scarcity (of food. ease of Warden Riches at Marble Bar The nati-, es had a systemn of preventing and of MAlr.Foss at Carnarvon. and it increase in. their numbers. -it was 'well would be infinitely better to appoint known that they operated on many of more magistrates and wardens with the their boys, anid 'this undoubtedly had that money nowtv being paid to inspectors. been brought about by the fact Any person who had to make a eom- there was insuifficient food- to supply there at present. If tile plaint in behalf of the nativesF-of course more than were natives were hardly able to lodge their Govern-ment undertook to breed cattle- own comaplaints.--could always find the for the natives and provide themn with magistrate or warden and who had food the numbers would increase at a charge of the police, and through them considerable rate. The only time that was able to deal with the complaints far the natives died omit was when they vame more effectively than any protector of into contact with civilisation or semni- aborigines. The position of protector civilisation, and assuredly by segregating was a sinectwe and even if the protector them and feeding thern we would be On had any power he could not possibly do enabling them to increasie rapidly. ver ' any good. For the protectors to do the De~rey river there had been good it would be necessary to have at few native children born for a iiunmber le-ast ten where there was now one, be- of years. Then an epidemic of measles [22 NOVEMBER, 1912.] 380780

swept off a great many of the natives, men. He had always held that the natives and in the following year almost, every should be fairly well treated by the native woman on the river produced people who had taken their country. It children. Having regard to these facts. was no hardship for them to do light it bohoved us to give more consgideration. work, and it 'was not his idea that we to this question, and when we talked should keep them entirely out of work about segregating them, and allowing so that somie other man might be able to them to live their own lives, providing earn his own living and their living. It them with food, and keeping the white never seemed to him a good policy to man away from them, we should ask keep anybody idle so that somebody ourselves whether we were not ' building else could get work. His ideas rather up another population for the North- tended towards allow-ing the inferior West. If we were to allow them to live person to do the work and keep him. their own life, that would involve the He hoped the Minister would give atten- pulling out of the present white population tion to the employment of natives, and of the North-West. and if we fed the endeavour to formulate seone schemeo natives up we would be assisting to bring whereby those employing natives should about a rapid increase in their numbers. pay for their services. In conclusion, The employment of natives on stations hie congratulated the M1inister on having had been characterised as slavery of the improved things from what they were worst description. and there was no when the Government camne into office denying that on a few stations at the even though the improvement was only present time and on many stations in to a small extent. previous years. that was a fact. 'Dr. Mr. MALE: It was pleasing to Roth was not far wrong- in the report lie hear the MAinister in charge of submitted, but a considerable improve- the Department and the member for ment had taken place on many stations Pilbara (Mr. Underwood) counteract the since that report was presented. It had rabid and irresponsible remarks of the to be recognised that on. many stations memnber for floebourne (Mr. Gardiner). the. iatives-were ivell treated. Speaking That hon. mnemrber had certainly shown in the aggregate there were many hun- his youthfulness and lack of experience dreds of natives fed who did not actually in the remarks he had made. It might do any work ; at the same time station be mentioned for the information of owners emiployed a considerable number the member for Pilbara that many of who did work, and there were stations the good things he referred to in con- which fed only those who worked and nection ,with the aborigines had been only while they were working, and as originated before the present Govern- soon Za the mustering was over sent them ment camne into power. In connection back into the country to find their own -with lock hospitals they wvere only living. In these circumstances hie continuing the good work initiated urged on the Minister the advisablilitv of by the previous Admidnistration. The introducing some system whereby the Government had recognised that the pastoralists and others, who employed work established by their predecessors natives, thould pay for their servics, was good work and were prepared to and the money so earned could be put continue it. The new system of rations into a fund, either to keep the relatives of to natives was initiated by the previous suchi natives now and themselves in overnrment. future, or to be put by entirely. It was Tdr. Underwood : I told you how to absolutely necessary to introduce. some do it. system different from the - Present one Mr. MALE:. The late Government of allo-wing somie of the squatters to understood how to do it, and he regretted exploit the labour of the natives and that the member for Pilbara (Mr. Under- practically pay nothing for it. He re- wood) had only j ust discovered that fused to look at this question from the it was done. He wished to a small Point of view of employing more white extent to defend a person who was 3808 3808(ASSEMBLY.] unable to defend himself in that Chamber. that was expected. they had done good The miember for Roebourne (Air. Card- work. A great number of natives went iner) had shown had form by referring to the institution and were supplied to the medical. officer for Hoeboorne with food. The idea was that by supply- as he had done. The medical officer ing them with meat the evil of cattle was a iman of great repute, and to his killing on the neighbouring stations knowledge extending over many years might be counteracted. It had to some was skilled in his profession. He would extent assisted in that direction, al- prefer the word of that doctor, who though the natives had gone to the had had 1.7 years experience in the extent of killing cattle on their own State, on professional matters, rather station, which showed that they were than that of the member for Rochourne. not yet imimune from the experience If D. 3launsehl made a report he would which was born in themn. It was not take it as being equally as good as one a question of killing cattle for the sake by Dr. Moloney. Dr. Moloney was the of food, but for the sake. of sport, as the medical officer at Roeboorne and Wynd- aborigines were born sportsmen. IRegard- ham, but had he any better ex- ing the question raised by the Labour perience than Dr. Maunsell who had Womnen's Federation, the meniber for lived in the district for many years, and Pilbarn spoke good conimon sense. If had watched the natives and the people ? we endeavoured to isolate natives from Certainly not. If we believed the re- the stations, it would mean isolating the marks made by the lion. member we whole of the North-West and giving should conclude that leprosy was rain- the whole of the country back to them. pant in the North-West. He (Air. Male) After many years' experience hie had had lived in iniberley and been concluded that the natives could be no acquainted with the North-West for better off than when cared for on the sta- 20 years, and he could say leprosy was tions, as they were kept in their country not rampant. A few isolated cases had and were well looked after. There might been found and had been segregated. be some cases of ill-treatment, hut Only a few weeks ago accounts were generally they were. well clothed and telegraphed from Broome all over Aus- fed, and their decrepit parents were tralia that there were cases of leprosy looked after, and it was undoubtedly in that town, and Dr. Hope was said the best way of dealing with them. not to have taken the active part he To set aside portions of land and keep should have done. The doctor had the natives on them was impossible. shown that he was quite capable in the If a site was selected in a certain district circumstances, for hie had sp~cirnens it would tend to the good of the natives sent to Perth and a diagnosis made, in that district, but all could not be and the cases were proved not to be collected and kept in one spot. Their leprosy but another disease which was natural habits caused them to migrate, not as contagious or infectious as leprosy. and if they were taken to another part One or two cases of leprosy had been of the country where the conditions and found in Roebourne. When the member language were different the natural for that district made a rabid statement result was that they would fight. The that the place was rampant with the best thing to do was to keep them on disease, it made one feel disgusted that the stations and see that they were a member should so decry his district, properly protected and cared for. And as the statement was absolutely in- if we did that, we would be doing our correct. Be congratulated the Govern- duty to the natives and to the country. ment on continuing the good work of the previous Administration in connection Alr. GREEN : It was his desire to dissociate himself from the remarks with aborigines. The native stations expressed by the member for Pilbara. in Kimberley were being continued as Be had put forward an amazing doctrine was intended -when they were initiated. that in. order to have a good aboriginal While they Perhaps had not done all it was necessary to kill him. He pro- [22 NOVEMBER, 1912.181 1809 tested against that. The hon. member the unfortunate race of aborigines. They bad dealt with the commercial aspect, could be kept on the islands. and it was surprising to find that a good Mr. Male : Ridicumlous 1 democrat on many occasions had a mental Mir. GREFN : They weore restricted twist on the aboriginal question and ran pretty closely at Moo [a Bulla. in double harness with the member for Mr. ale : Only the natives belonging Kimiberley. The member for IRimberley to thle country, but not outside natives. thought the natives should be left .Mr. G.RE1EN:- Reserves could be on the stations where, presumiably, the seeured in different portions, of the counl- squatter would get the benefit of their try to which tihe natives belonged. There cheap labour as in the past, and that was alwayvs some apparently valid ob- the State should keep police and mnagis- jection raised by vested interests to trates in order to ensure that the natives every reform, but for the sake of doing should he well looked after. something for these unfortunate natives *Mir. 'Underwood:-How many policemen it was our duty to segregate themn and are there in the North-West t make special reservations, which had -Mr. Male: It takes far more police to proved successful in North .4merica. look after the white men in Kalgoorlie. -,Mr. TAYLOR: Raving lied some ex- , Mr. GR1E EN : Thle systeml of specialI perience of Australia for thle greater part reservations which had been adlopted. of his life in the back parts of New South with success with regard to the so-called W~ales and Queensland and Wvestern. Auls- nomads of Amnerica should be adopted tralia, hie -was firmnly contvinced that the here. As the aborigines had been robbed aborigines could not stand white civil. of their country in the first instance, we isa Lion. Al-ways thley) went do-wn before should have humanitarian instincts and white civilisation. It was not on account try to do something more for then than of harshness. 'Pho natives were anl in!ferier had been done in the past. Segregation race who acquired all thle vices, of thle would be possible the same as in America. white race and none of the virtues. lit had proved fairly successful at Aloola, Whlen the whites first encountered the Bulla and could be extended to other blacks the latter had their tribal existence parts of the State. 'If natives would not with their tribal territories clearly mark- confine themselves to small tracts of ed, but in contact with the 'whites they country, thle difficulty could be overcome could not restrain themlselves, as the by setting aside larger tracts. There whites could and they went down. T]here mnight he only one objection to that was no possible chiance of preserving the method, and that was on the score of ex- aborigines of A'ustralia by segregation. pense. It was a valid objection, but and no humanitarian action directed in against that we had to consider the pre- this way would be of any benefit to them. sent system under which station owners No greater hardship could be placed on were getting the benefit of aboriginal the aboriginal than. by hemming him in labour and the State was called upon to freedom to travel over a fixed terri- to look after the natives ...... tory- No doubt there were tribal terri- tories in rim North-West and North, but Mr. Heitmann: Would you keep them tihe coining of thle white people had re- in idleness ? moved thes-e border lines to some extent, Mr. GREEN : They couid he emnploy- end it might be possible to get two or ed onl cattle stations. He protested three different tribes to mningle, but it against the position taken up by the was hopeless to say we could segregate miemrber for Pilbara (Mr. 'Underwood), the natives; and preserve them success- and regretted that on this question the fully. There wds a good deal in what lion, member was so saturated with the the members for Pilbara and Kimberley commercial spirit of the North-West lied said, that the kindest way to deal that lie should find himself in agreement with thle aborigines was to see that they wvith the member for Eimberley (Mr. were nat badly treated, that when they Male). Something should be done for were deprived of their hunting grounds ;~8iASSEMBLY.3 0

they were supplied with food, and, above Mr. Taylor: The report was made all things,, that they got necessary muedical as a result of the statement of the member treatment when they were suffering from for Roebourne (Mr. G}ardiner). contagious diseases. That was his ex- Hon. W. C. Angwin:- He got instruc- perience of 40 years in Australia, and a tions before the member for Roebourne groat deal of it -was spent in the Gulf spoke. territory and on the Tableland where Mr. TAYTLOR:. The doctor must have there were the wildest and miost ferocious kniown of the statements made by the tribes in Australia, a different type to member for Roebourne and it was sur- the aboriginal of the goldfields or the prising he did not find a loathsome Murchison. Here the native would sneak disease. If it were true it was a mnest on a manl asleep to kill him. but there, if pleasing matter. It spoke volumes for the natives realised their forces wore the way the aborigines were looked in any way equal to the whites, they after, but it could not be true, and it was would fight in open warfare and dispute to be hoped the Minister next year the possession of the territory with the would submit a report from someone whites. There was no desire to depreciate whom members would accept as an in any way the humanitarian utter- authority, to say whether the contagion ances of the mnember for Kalgoorlie (Mir. so remained or not. Probably there Oreen), hut one could go down Hay-streer. were but few cases of leprosy which and hear footpath politicians talkin~g were detected and looked after, but the about hLOW the aboriginal should be venereal aspect was a totally different treated. It mnade one who had been in question and it was not necessary to the back country smile. All that could go to the Norblh-West to ascertain this. be done for the natives was to give theni In the first camip of natives a medical possible, to freedom to roam as uch ats mnan couldd not give the report this see that they were not treated badly, to medical men gave and a clean certificate supply them with food where their of cleanliness. With reference to the hunting grounds w.ore taken. from them, cattle stations, it would be interesting and, above all things, to see that the)' to have seine information concerning wore looked after by the Medical IDe- them; for instance how manlyaborigines partmnent if they contracted any disease were employed there, and how many white through the influx of die white popu- men, what progress the station was lation. As to the two medical reports mnaing, how many cattle -were there, the before the Commnittee, when one of the extent of territory, and something about doctorsawas aman of 20 years' experience the general outlook. If the reports hie mn a special disease should at least be had had from reliable men were to be be- a higher and better authority than one Leved there was room for improvement who had little or no experience. If 'Dr. at this station. A good deal had been Maunsell had gone to three stations and done in the way of protecting the native had examined nearly 80 natives and womenfolk in the _North-West. but failed to find disease, hie must be blind. nothing had been done between Perth It was idle to he hypocrites in this matter. and Albany and on the goldfields. There This doctor mnust. hiave found dlisease was ample work for women. protectors among So natives. to do in these parts inL the j~vay of remov- Mr. Heitmalno: But not leprosy. ing the hardships -which werte inflicted Mr. TAYLOR: The report referred to on the women natives. If we could diseases. Any man with experience in appoint women protectors who knew the the back country must say the doctor temperaments of the natives they would was wrong. He may have been ied have greater influence over the black astray, but one could say he could not wvomen than men could be expected to have examined these people and give have. It had been said that if We sent such a report truthfully. a woman protector to the far North we Hon. WV.C. Angivin - He was paid a would be obliged. to send someone with special fee. her, but hie ventured to remark that a [22 NOV=BrER, 1912.] 313811

,white woman would be as safe in the with disease, but it was in their camps far Kimberleys as she would be in Hay- where a protector would have a chance street, anid he spoke from long experience of ascertaining whether they ware. suffer- of thle Australian bush. The men of the ing from a disease or not. If a woman bush were nmen of honour, and it would protector were sent to one of these camps never he found in Australian bush that she would have to go inl, but she could a mnan would do anything to a not say to tile nligger.5, .. Geitlcmniil woman that was cowardly. Lf a woant I must ask you to leave until I examnine protector was appointed there would be the ladies." Sheo would be compelled plenty of scope for her energies, not inl to examnine the gins in the presence of the far North, but in the districts closer the men in order to learn whether they to Perth. were suffering from disease or not. Mock modesty had to be left out of the Mr. FOLEY: Applications had been question. If a protector had to be made to him to support the idea of appointed the appointment should be providing better protection for the given to a man possessed of medical natives. So far as his experience went knowledge fitting him for knowing what it was fairly considerable in Western was wrong with the sufferers and the best Australia. He had travelled where the m eans of treating the disease. To a very blacks were numerous, not only in this great extent these diseases were not re- State but in the other States, and he stricted to the natives themselves, for had had the opportunity of seeing them in the warm seasons of the year these live in their own style and in a sei-l people were to be found covered with civilised state. In most of the other flies which subsequently made their States the blacks lived a different life way into the houses and on to thle very from that in 'Western Australia, and food of the white people onl thle gold- being an Australian and knowing that fields. lit was better to talk straight our forefathers had taken this land out like this and say what one meant from the natives, he admitted that than to be mealy-mouthed about the everything we could do for the natives business and pose as a good friend to to make their lives happier we should the blacks, at Patriotic Australian, and do- He however, was against the idea all the rest of it. In his opinion the best of having a certain class of protection means of reform would be to use the for the natives ; if we desired to pro- vote with a view to 'appointing inspectors tect them we would have to do something who knew their business ; have districts else besides appointing women to look set apart for the diseased natives in after them. That idea of appointing which they could be treated and, after women protectors was absolute nonsense. curative treatment, to take steps with Anyone but a. King's Park bushman a view to preventing any further attacks knew what kind of Lives the natives led. of the disease. Under their own con- We might leave out the North-West ditions, inl their own native state, the and the agricultural centres and go blacks were not afflicted by this disease. straight to the goldfields% not one part It was civilisation that had brought it of the goldfields, but the whole of themn, upon them, and civilisation too thit and we would find in somie of the camps had made them weak in other respects. from 10 to 100 natives. Was there In the early days on the goldfields the one lion, member who would like to piccaninnies. were of a stronger type see his wife, or his mother, or his sisters than was to be seen to-day. In their in the position of protector for the natural state the blacks could withstand aborigines ? If there was, that member climatic conditions without any cover- would cease to do his duty as a relative. ing whatever, but to-day they required No matter what doctors told us disease was rampant from one end of the gold- colothies, and if poorly clad they went fields to the other as far as the aborigines down under the cold blasts of winter. were concerned. The natives, could be Civilisation had brought this upon them. found in the towns absolutely reeking In trying to civilise them we had clothed [182] AS12 [ASSEMBLY.] them, and they could not now exist to step in and stop this abuse. If pro. without clothes. There was scarcely teeters were to be appointed hie hoped any member of the older tribes on the the Government would not think of goldfields who was not more or less ap~pointing a woman to the post, for afflicted with lung trouble. If we segre- in addition to the degradation entailed gated the natives we had to keep them it wvould be absolutely useless. These and attempt to civilise them. This appointments should be retained for was a wrong system altogether. As men with medical qualifications. long as the State did all that could be Vote put and passed. done to render these natives contented Vote Charities, £56,724-agreed to. and happy the result would be fairly Vote-Ferrea, Jet!ties, and Tramnways. satisfactory, but if we tried to make £17,468. them live the lives we lcd wye would Air. LEWVIS :XWas it the intention fail, and the result would be disastrous of the Government to institute a Govern- to the natives. If the natives were to moent ferry service to Coode-street and be employed on the stations they should to Come? Again, was it intended to not be paid personally. If there was grant concessions on the tramways to anything in the contention that certain apprentices, as was being done on the of the stations did not pay the natives, railways. The Minister had pointed but only gave them food, it was a re- out that a profit had been made on the prehenible practice, because no man ferry service. Could not some of this who did a day's work failed to earn profit be utilised in the direction of more than a mere day's living. In his completing the nationalisation of the opinion the money earned by a native ferries by taking ovbr other existing working on a station should be paid into services and instituting necessary niew a Government account to be devoted ones? to the upkeep of other aborigines who I-on. W. 0. MN\GXVflN: In all pro- could not work. This would at once re- bability the Government would event- move the evil effects arising from paying uially take over control of all ferries on the niggers in actual cash, assist the efforts the Swan river, but it wvas not intended of the State in maintaining the old to do so at the present time. The and indigent natives, and remove the matter of the cheap fares for apprentices stigma east upon many station owners would be brought under the notice of of not paying for their native labour. the Minister vho, no doubt, would give He would be very ready to compliment due consideration to it. In regard to the department on having cleanliness the profits referred to as having been and purity among the natives if such mnade on the ferries, it should have been cleanliness and purity existed: but, stated that interest and sinking fund travelling through the. goldfields,one found had yet to be charged against that that men and women of the native tribes profit, which would serve in seone measure were suffering to a very great extent to reduce it. from disease. We should endeavour to Vote put and passed. make their condition as good as we Vote Fisheries, £3,728-agreed to. possibly could. The Government could Vote-Friendly Societies and Industrial do a little more than wvas being done in Arbitration, £4,119: the matter of feeding the natives. This would serve to relieve the keepers of Mr. GREEN : Had the department hotels and boarding houses on the considered the advisability of appoint- goldfields of what was a very real strain ing Goverrnment auditors to audit the in feeding the local natives, in addition books of friendly societies? It had coe to securing to the natives a better supply uinder his notice on frequent occasions that different of food. If it was a fact that much lodges and societies ap- pointed as auditors member of societies of the money allocated to various dep~ts wvho were without any knowledge of to do this work was being put to other actuarial work, and in consequence the uses it was the duty of the Government door was left open for dishonest secretar. [22 NOVEamBE, 1912.1 313813 ics to set tip shortages. For the sake departments. He hopad the Minister of friendly societies Government auditors would put themn en a more or less level ought to be appointed. foe tingy. Hon. W. C. ANOWiN :The sugges- I-on). XW. 0. A'_'NWN : A depart- tion of the hion. member would probably mental commnittee had been appointed roquire an alteration in the Friendly consisting of the accountant of the Societies Act. No doubt when an amend- Colonial Secretary's department, one of ment of that Act was proposed the the gaol staff, and the Deputy Public suggestion would receive consideration. Service Commissioner, to go into the Vote put and passed. question of salaries with a view to fixing Vote-Gotes, £21,823: a, uniform basis. The recommendations Mr. MALE: The gaol officials had of the committee were now under the not had a general rise in salaries since consideration of the Minister. The rates 1902, and those salaries compared un- at present paid to the warders, were, first favourably with the salaries of the police class from £175, rising by an annual in similar grades. A second grade warder increase of £5 to £250 ; and in addition of the third class received 7s. (3d. a they received a uniform, water, and clay for two years, then he was made a quarters or, in lieu of quarters, a lodging first grade warder at £134 a year, which alowance for married men of £29 per worked out at 7s. 4d. per clay. He annum and for single men £20. Second- obtained a rise of £4 a year, and it took class principal warders received from him four years to roach his mnaximumi £C150 to £176 and senior warders £140 of £1.50, which was equal to 8s. 2d. a day. to £165 ; Third-class warders, farst grade, Then hie remained in that position until £135 to £150, and second gi-adk 7$. Gd. a vacancy occurred to allow of his pro- per day wvith the additions already mnen- motion to the position of senior warcl-r. tioned. This matter had been dealt The gaolers occupied very rosponsible with by the committee appointed for positions and when they reached their the express purpose. The committee miaximumi they received £175 a year would make a comparison with the rates (exclusive of Judging and tropical allow- in other States and recommend to the) ance), which worked out at 9s. 7d.. per Minister accordingly. day, or about the same rate as a first-class Mr. GREEN: Considerable dissatis- constable. He asked the Minister to go fatcion was felt in Fremantle because into tho question and see that the gaol Warder Hodges had been turned down officers -were paid an adequate wage in and another man appointed chief warder, comparison with the police and officers a position which it was generally thought of other departments. Warder Hodges should have received. M3r. Heitian: They get certain allow- N1%odoubt the Minister could give good ances. reasons for the action that had been Mr. MALE:- So did the police. The taken, but it was contended that Warder lodging allowance was £20 per annum Hodges had only one black mark against irrespective of rank, whilst the lowest him after 30 years' service, and it seems lodging allowance paid to the police was stran go that Im'should be~ turncd-ido-wn £E29, and it increased according to rank in favour of a newer man. Irtn'regard'to until an inspector received £45 per annum. the employment of prisoners in the Fre- Hon. WV.C. Angwin : It is £29 now for mantle gaol, the trades at present'.taught gaol officials. were restric ted to bootmaking, mat- Mrb. MALE: The attention of the making, tailoring, and printing, and it Minister was drawn to those facts in seemned that greater scope for the pri- eider that lie might have the opportunity soners could be found in clearing forest of giving information. It was smrely land. M%-any people had a considerable not the desire of the Government that objection to utilising the product of men in responsible positions should not prison labour, and he had been told that receive, a fair rate,'equal to that received there was not enough work in the prison by men of corresponding ranks in other to keep the prisoners emiployed. In 3814 [ASSEMBLY.] -, the clearing of forest land the prisoners It was the cuistomn of the department to could b30 doing good service to the country, maintain a number of hospitals at Gov- and such work would be more congenial erment expeliec and the local people and calculated to encourage any ten- were not called upon for any contribution dencies to reform. He understood that whatever. Ini other districts it wall the that systemn had already been tried with custom to put hospitals under thre con- marked success. trol ol local committees, and the local Hon. WV.C. ANO WIN :The trades residents were responsible entirely for the at present followved in the prison wore upkeep, with the exception that a small mat-making, blanket and stocking mak- subsidy was given by the Government. ing, carpentering, bootmnaking, printing, He found that the hospital at Albany, a and tailoring. This work was done only very large town in comparison with other for other Government departments and towns, was entirely maintained by the did not interfere with the outside workers. Government ;tire local people were not Thre Colonial Secretary and thle Minister called upon to make any contribution for Lands had wnder consider-ation a and the cost to thre State per annum was scheme for using the labor of prisoners E603, or 5s., 3d. per patient per diem. in connection with reafforestation and The hospital at Collis. another important no doubt this would be brought into town and thle centre of a large district, force at an early date. Ini regard to which could not be called a poor district, Warder Hodges it would not be discreet wvas; maintained by the State at a cost of to discuss this question at present be- 5s. 4d. per patient per diem. The hospital cause there was a possibility of that at Cue, which though not so prosperous as official asking for an inquiry into thre formerly, was still a prosperous town, matter, but in justification of the action was maintained by the State at a cost of of the Minister it might be said that there 6s. -3d. per patient per diem. The hos- was considerably more that one black pital at Geraldton, a large and prosperous mark against this officer. town, in the centre of a rich and growing Vote put and passed. district, was maintained at a cost of 4s. Votes-Harbour and 4Lit. E19,691 10d, per patient per diem. Those towns, Lunacy, £41,290-agreed to. every one of which wvas sufficiently pros- Vote-Mledical and Public Healthi. perous and populonu to maintain its own £105,709: hospital, were not asked to make the Hon. Mf. F. TROY : It was his desire same sacrifices as; other- localities were to make a protest in regard to the in- making at the present time. The hos- equitable treatment meted out to various pital at IKalgoorlie, which was a towin hospitals in the country, hospitals in of considerable dimensions with a very localities where the population was not large population, and could not be called very great and where the people were a struggling town, was maintained en- making every possible sacrifice- to main- tirely at the Government expense. and tain institutions in the best condition for it cost the State 7s. per patient per diem. the convenience and comfort of the Trhe State expenided on that institution patients. There were in his electorate not less than £:6,000 per annum. Narro- several hospitals assisted by the Governt- gin, a growing town, the centre of a vr mnent large and prosperous district, was main- and controllcd by local committees , and whiilst hie knew that tlie local people tained at tlit State expense and the cost had made ev-ery possible sacrifice to is 6s. 52d. per patient per diem. At maintain those institutions. hie hadl to Northern, which was also a large antI pros. complain of thle manner in, wich thle lperoi15 town, the cost was 6s. 8d. per institutions haed been treated by the Gov-- patient per diem, and York, which was erment. He doe-ed. to spea k parti cu- one of the most prosperous towns situated larly in regard to the Sandstone hospital, in one of thle largest districts was main- and to compare the assistance given to tained at 6s. 6d. per patient per diem. it with that given to hospitals in more Perth's wasl largely a State hospital, but favourably situated portions of the State. the same could not be said of Fremantle, [2-2 Nova,%nin 1012.)381 3815 which town was in a large and populous lat ion was, not nearly so numerous As9 and prosperous district, and hoe doubted in other portions of the State. and sinev whether the people of ]Fremiantle eton- thle 1)ollul1ationl 'was 4maller the taxationl tributed anything to the, maintenance of for hospitals was very much higher than the hospital. in Albany. Collie, York, Nor-tham, Narro- Mr. fleitmann . You arc wrong. ginl, LKalgoorlie, and Ueraldton, not, to Hon. M. F. TfROY:- These poeple paid mlentionl LPremantle. It was time this a certain amount in fees but in giving v-ote was put onl an equitable footing. the cost, hie had deducted the amount of Trhese rich, growing, and p)opulouls local- fees and given the net cost. At Sandstone, ities should bear their share of the burden which was in h-is electorate, thle cost to of expense, It was; not fair to make the the State was .3s. 10d. per patient per people in remote portions of the State, diem, or 100 per cent. less than at York, people who were living tinder worse con- Northamn, Narrogin, Kalgoorlie, Gerald- ditions, pay more than a fair share of the ton, and Albany, and other favoured uipkeep, of their hospitaLs, localities. The people in his electorate Hlon. W. C. Angwin : Sandstone has a in one town, thle adult population of medical officer. which would not exceed 1,000 persons, Sight had not were compelled to subscribe for the Hon. M. F. TROY: maintenance of their hospital from 100 been lost of the fact that there was a resident medical to 200 per cent. more than the people InI vote for the payment of apart frm the hospitals in every mote favoured districts where the popu- officers one of these localities wvhere the people lation was larger and the prosperity contributed nothing. greater. He strongly objected to that. The people of Sandstone were prepared Hon. WV.C. Angwin:- I mean the to make every sacrifice but the time must doctors attending the miners. comle when they would cease and they Hon. M. F. TROY : Thle miners paid could not be expected to subscribe any their doctors likewise. The Govern- morc than the people in other portions mient did nlot subscribe any more to the of the State. If thle State was going to doctor in Sandstone and Leonora. or make every locality maintain its own very little more than in any other por- institutions, his district was prepared to tion of the State. Leonora received do its share, hut it was not prepared to £100 more for the doctor and £100 more mnake these sacrifices which other people for the hospital. He was not comn- in more favourably situated portions of plaining of that. The Leonora people tile State were not making at present. had borne their share properly and The 'Principal Medical Officer's Report courageously, but the people in Fre- showed that the two hospitals which wer6 mnantle and other large centres should conducted most economnically from the bear their share in a just and equitable standpoint of the State were those of the manner. Even compared wvith the assis- two goldfields, Mount Leonora and Sand- ted hospitals at Laverton, Mfeekatharra, stone. These hospitals cost the State Mount Morgans, Wagin, Beverley, and less than any other two in the State; Moora, thle hospitals at Sandstone and that was, the people subscribed more Leonora were the least charge on the than in any other portion of the State Government and the local residents sub- and to his mind had received most scribed thle most. He would give some niggardly treatment.- facts in Comnection with thle amount Mr. 'Male: What about Broome? of money subscr-ibed by small popula- Hon. Al. F. TROY :The cost for tions to prove that they were making Broome was 7s. 14d. per patient per considerable sacrifice. In four years diem. -That was tile net cost, which the people of Sandstone had subscribed showed that Leonora and Sandstone to the hospital no less than 99,000. were costing the State only half as mnuchi The adult population was not more as Broorne. -These two hospitals ap- than about a thousand people, yet they parently subscribed most, and thle popu- had subscribed this amount in tour .1816 .816[ASSEMBRLY.] years3, equal to nearly £2,250 per iintiiin, was only 5s. in the pound as against which was fairly heavy taxation. 10s. and 1s. elsewhere. It appeared Hon. IV. C. Angwtin The doctor that the more sacrifices people made renders assistance. the less assistance they got. On one Hfon. 1M. F. TROY : The doctor gave occasion when this hospital at Sandstone certain services hut beyond the treat- showed a, slight surplus the Principal ment. of the people1 at the hospital, if Medical Officer, while comiplimaenting lie had to treat people at their homnes, the people on tise sacrifices made and Ite charged the usual fee. That prac- on the surplus obtained, at the samie tice was followed in other portions time reduced the subsidy. The policy of the) State. Tho total Government of the department was to compel those subsidy during that time had been £079 who made the greatest sacrifices to but a portion of it had been for the pur- make more, and those who made no poses of builing. sacrifices to make nmone. In these mining Hon. WV.C. Ange-in -. You got about townmships people always had their hanwds. £800 last year. in their pockets to subscribe to the Hon. M. F. TROY : These buildings dependants of those who met death were entirely the property of the Cavern. or disablement through injuries or through meat and not of the local committee. mniners' complaint ; and if a man. died The people who subscribed nearly half in the hospital, though he midght be of the cost hadi no claim on the building treated as an indigent patient, he was as it belonged entirely to the Govern- nev-er buried as a pauiper because the ment, so as a result the Government local people always subscribed for the had subscribed to these hospitals about burial. It was not fair to ask people .se. in the pound during the last four in the outback places to mnake sacrifices years, whereas to other hospitals they wheni they lived under such conditions had subscribed 10.s. or 15s. He pro- in regard to climate and lack of re- tested against that as lie had pro- creation as compared with people in tested against it in years past, The thre coastal and agr-icultural districts cost of the buildings in that district where money was spent freely for the amonniited to V.240. That was one pleasure of the people. The Minister half of the amount of the subsidy given should put the charitable institutions by the Qovernnsent. and the buildings on a inoje equitable footing. Some were the property of the Government legislation might be introduced by which and not of the people. Regarding last a charity tax or a simailar tax could be year's performance in this district the imposed to supplement the revenue people of that locality subscribed in expended, on the maintenance of hos- donations £6 15sa., in subscriptions £1,611, pitals and charitable institutions generally. in hospital fees £106, and in hospital It was to be hoped next year the sana- collections £363, making a total collection torium would be established. The people for last year of £2,098. The Goveriiment on the goldfields were looking forward subsidy amounted to £970 of which £300 to it. it w~as to be hoped, despite was for the purpose of erectinri a maternity the conditions of the finances, an effort, ward. wouild be puit forwa-rd to have it coin- Hon. W. C. Ang-win :You said £900 plated. was for four years. Hon. W. C. Angwvin:- The finances Hon. AL F. TROY: Then hie would are provided for that. correct it. The total for the four years was £4,000 and E2.000 in buildings. The Hon. 3L F. TROY: Every sacrifice maternity ward cost considerably miore should be mado to do it, and there than £300 and although the people should be some scheme drawn up by paid for it, it did not belong to themi which, when the breadwvinmers ws-re but to the State. Taking it over fu in time sanatorium, their wires and years the actual subsidy paid by the families should be provided for in easec Governent to the Sandstone hospital of need, [26 NovEMBER, 1912.] 381781

Hon. W. C. ANOWJXN: So far as the Dear Sirs, Please accept my very hearty Sandstone hospital was concerned during thanks, also the thanks of may sons for the past twelve months the Government your kind letter of sympathy on the had spent £900 on it. He was not in ;25th ultimo. Faithfully yours, E. Lane, accord with the present system, but he recognised the difficulty which existed at the present time of making the alter- BILLS (2)-THIlRD READING. ation he desired. 1, Plenning, passed. Progress reported. 9, District Fire Brigades Act Amend- mnent, passed. House adjourned at 10.52 p.m.

BTLITTRAFFIC. lit Committee. Hon. W. King-smilh in the Chair, the Colonial Secretary in charge of the Bill. Clauses 1, 2-agreed to. Clause 3 -Interpretation: The COLONIAL SECRETARY moved an amendment- That the definition of "orricnulural Zeoltfivc CItouncil, machine" be struck out and the follow- 'Tuesday, .261h November, 1912. ing inserted :-" 'Private agricultural machine' means any' machine designed PAGE for the purpose of preparing land for .3817 PaperObtzr:Mx.prsented Z. lane,-.. Letter in reply 3817 sowing, or of souring or taking off crops Bills : P'earling.sRs...... 3817 District FieBrigades Act Amendment, SR. 3817 or preparing the produce of crops for Traffic, Corn...... 817 market, and intended to be used for Inebriates, Absembly's Message 3825 Elcoa ct Amendment, Ia...... 825 such purpose exclusively by the owuner Industrial Arbitration, Assemblyes Messge 3825 thereof Municipal Corporations Act Amendment, on land occupied by him." Corn...... 38 The new definition was on the same lines, but contained less verbiage and ws The PRESIDENT took the Chair at clearer. 4.30 p.m., and read prayers. Hon. C. A. PIESSE: An agricultural machine in the hands of the seller could PAPER PRESENTED. not come tinder the definition, and the seller would be liable to all the pains and By the Colonial Secretary: Report of penalties of the law. The definition the Department of Agriculture and In- should be simplified so that the machine dustries for the year ended 30th June. could be taken along the roads. 1912. The -Colonial Secretary: Clause 7 covers that point. OBITUARY - MAR. ZEBINA LANE, Ron. C. A. PIESSE: With that assur- LETTER IN REPLY. ance be was satisfied. 'The PRESIDENT: I desire to inforru Hon. W. PATRICK: The definition lion. members that I have received the would prevent anyone from entering into following letter from Mrs. Lane, widow contracts for chaffcutting. M1uch of the of the late Mr. Zebina, Lane:- chaffeutting in the State was carried on Flowerdale, via Broadford, 13th by people who had large planlts. November, 1012. The President and Hon. J. F. CUllen: They would take members of the Legislative Council. ant at license.