12 Opening of Parliament. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.
International Patents and Trade-marks Ar- ~rgi~latiue S!~~rmbl!!. rangements Bill. North Sydney Loan Enabling Bill. Tuesday, 21 June, 1898. Trust Property (Amendment) Bill. Consolidated Revenue Fund (Municipal Grant) Opening of Parliament-New Members-Governor's Speech Bill. -Assent to Bills-Privilege (Secretary for Lands) Stockton Graving-dock (Leasing) Bill, Ordnance Lands Transfer BHI (Formal)-Governor's Vegeta.tion Diseases Bill. Speech: Address in Reply--Dentists Bill-Adjourn Glebe Island Bridge Bill. ment (Civil Servants and Politics-Amendment of the Nyngan Town Hall (Mortgage) Bill. Libel Law). Artesian 'Vells Bill. Real Property (Crown Lands) Bill. OPENING OF PARLIAMENT. PRIVILEGE. The House met at noon, pursuant to the SECRETARY FOR LANDS. proclamation of his Excellency the Gover M:r.N 0 RTON (Sydney-Fitzroy)[ 4 ·33]: nor convening Parlia'llent. On a question of privilege, I wish to call The CLERK read the proclamation. the attention of the House to what I con sider a grossly unconstitutional action on NEW ME~iBERS. the part of the Secretary for Lands, who Mr. SPEAKER reported that during the while in office participated more or less recess he bad issued writs for the return openly in a political contest in connection of members for the electoral districts of with the election of a member to this Narrabri and Sydney-Fitzroy Division, House. I think you will agree with me, in the places of Charles Collins, Esquire, Mr. Speaker, that even if our own standing and John McElhone, Esquire, deceased, orders, practice, or precedent, did not and that the writs bad been returned in apply, those of the House of Commons do dorsed with the names of Hugh Ross, apply. Esquire, and John Norton, Esquire, respec Mr. SPEAKER : Orcler ! I cannot see in tively. what way the question of privilege can Mr. Ross and Mr. Nor ton subscribed possibly arise in connection with the point the oath and signed the roll. submitted by the hon. member.
GOVERNOR'S SPEECH. ORDNANCE LANDS TRANSFER BILL (Fo1'1nal). The USHER OF THE BLACK RoD being admitted, delivered a message that his Bill read the first time. Excellency the Governor requests the im mediate attendance of this honorable GOVERNOR'S SPEECH : ADDRE::>S I~ REPLY. House in the Legislative Council Chamber. Mr. SPEAKER : I h Question-That the amendment be The committee retired, and having re agreed to-put. The House divided : entered the Chamber, presented the pro posed address, which was read by the Clerk Ayes, 19; noes, 80 ; majority, 61. as follows :- AYES. To His Excellency the Right Honomble HENRY Bavister, T. Perry, J. ROilERT, VISCOUNT HAMPDEN, Governo1• ancl Fitzpatrick, T, Phillips, M. T. ComrnandP1'·in-Ghief of the Colony of New ·Hassall, T. H. Price, R. A. South Wales and its Dependencies. Hurley, W. F. Pyers, R. Mity it please your Excellency : Jones, Travers Smith, T. R. We, her Majesty's loyal and dutiful subjects, the members of the Legislative Assembly of New Kelly, J. B. Waddell, T. South Wales, in Parliament assembled, desire Norton, J. Willis, W. N. to express our thanks for your Excellency's Miller, G. T. C. Tellers, speech, and to assure you of our unfeigned at Newman, H. "\V. Crick, W. P. tachment to her most gracious Majesty's throne O'Sullivan, E. V'{. Gillies, J. and person, 'Ve desire to assure your Excellency that the Nm~s. utmost consideration will be given to the Affleck, W. Lyne, W. J. measures that will be submitted to us. Anderson, G. Macdonald, H. vV e join your Excellency in the hope that Ashton, J. Mahony, W. H. under the guidance of Divine Providence our labours may be so directed as to advance the Ball, R. T. McCourt, "\V. - best interests of the colony. Barnes, J. F. McFarlane, J. ·Black, G. McGowen, J. S. T. Mr. RIGG (Newtown-St. Peters) [5·6] Brown, T. McLean, F. E. rosfl to move : Brunker, J. N. Millard, W. That the address in reply to his Excellency's Bull, C. Millen, E. D. opening speech, as read by the Clerk, be now Campbell, Alexander Molesworth, E. "\V, adopted by this House. Cann, J. H. Moore, S. vV. He said: I think it will be generally ad- . Carruthers, J. H. Morgan, W. mitted that the present Parliament, which Chanter, J. M. Morton, P. H. is about to pass away through effiuxion of Chapman, A. O'Reilly, D. P. time, has been one of the most useful, as it Clark, E. M. Parkes, V. has been also one of the longest-lived par Clarke, F. Phillips, S. liaments in this colony. We are now Clarke, H. Piddington, A. B. Cook, J. Piddington, W. H. B. almost at the end of our appointed time, Copeland, H. Reid, G. H. and looking back upon what has been ac Cotton, F. Rigg, W. complished by the Parliament, I think we Cruickshank, G. A. Rose, T. have every reason to congratulate those Dick, W. T. Ross, Dr. A. who have held the reins of office. They Edden, A. Ross, H. have exhibited wonderful activity and Farnell, Frank Schey, vV. F. vitality in all their undertakings. The Fegan, J. L. See, J. present Government has placed upon the Fitzpatrick, J. C. L. Sleath, R. statute-book more measures than have been Garrard, J. Smailes, G. "\V. placed there by any previous government Gormly, J. Smith, S. in a similar time. They have completely Gould, A. J. Thomas, J. Greene, G. H. Thomson, D. altered the fiscal policy of this country, so Harvey, J. F. "\V atkins, D. that at the present time we have in the Hawthorne, J. S. Watson, J. C. colony of New South Wales the freest Hayes, J. Wheeler, H. C. ports in, I suppose, the world. The Go Hogue, J .. Whiddon, S. T. vernment has also enjoyed the respect, Howarth, G. Wilks, W. H. esteem, and confidence of the public. It Hughes, W. M. "\Vood, W. H. stands to reason that as our time is so Jessep, T .. Young, J. H. limited the programme submitted in the Jones, Robert present session must be brief. Law, S. J. Tellers, Lee, C. A. Griffith, A. H. Mr. NORTON : Then you do not mean Lonsdale, E. Jones, Russell business~ Mr. SLEATH : I rise to order. The hon. Question so resolved in the negative. member for St. Peter's Division has been Original question resolved in the interrupted in a grossly cowardly manner, affirmative. and it is Mr. Speaker's duty to see that 14 Governm·' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply. ·such interruptions do not continue. They one-fourth of all the voters I think it is ap are especially unfair in the case of the hon. parent that if the people had the matter at member for St. Peter's Division, who is heart, tht>re would be no difficulty in in never discourteous to his fellow members. ducing that number to come to the scratch Mr. NORTON: He is as sensible as the and vote for the bill. In consequence of hon. mrmber! 80,000 votes not having been polled, the Mr. SLEATH: If this man-monkey from bill, so far as New South vVales is con Fitzroy Division will insist on being offen cerned, at all events lapses for the present. sive, all I can say is that I do not mind I do not think there is an hon. member on for myself, but I have some respect for the either side of the House but will express proper procedure of this House. sorile regret that federation has not become Mr. CoPELAND : I rise to order. Is an accomplished fact at the present time. "man-monkey" a proper expression to be vVe are all agreeable to a federation of applied by one hon. member to another~ some kind or other; but the bill put forth Mr. SPEAKER: I did not hear what the by the convention was not, in my opinion, hon. member for Wilcannia said; but I and seemingly was not in the opinion of think bon. members generally must recog the inhabitants of New South Wales a nise that interruptions are frequently very fitting one for this colony. unfair, and, as I have pointed out again Mr. CRICK : Why did the Premier Yote and again, they are also unparliamentary. for it then~ Mr. CRICK : The whole proceeding is a Mr. RIGG : The Premier will be better farce, and we may as well have a laugh able to answer that question than I am. over it! I was saying that we must all regret that Mr. RIGG : I was about to say that federation is not an accomplished fact at · this session must necessarily be a brief the present time. I recognise that the one. In the course of a few weeks Par bill we have before us is the best which liament will have expired by effiuxion of our delegates could obtain at the com·en tin:e. The Government have proposed to tion under the circumstances. They did deal within this short time with some of the very best they could at that conven the more important measures which re tion. I recognise that in our delegates we quire to be passed into law, and I hope had some of the brightest intellects in this the House will assist them in their attempt colony, and I belie-ye they were sincere in to do that. The foremost measure men all they did, but with the voting power tioned in the Governor's speech is that against them it was impossible for them to dealing with federation. This measure bring back to the colony a better measure was approved of in March last at the final than they did. sitting of the convention, and the polling Mr. ORICK : Nonsense ; that is not true ! took place in this colony on the 3rd of the Mr. RIGG : I think the delegatE's in present month. One of the conditions as that convention tried to do more for the regards this colony was that before the interests of this colony than could be done bill was accepted it should have the ap afterwards if the bill became law. vVith proval of 80,000 elflctors. The delegates the voting power belonging to this country. assembled at the convention in Melbourne it would not matter how we substantiated early in the year with a full knowledge our case we should not be able to obtain that 80,000 votes would require to be that measure of justice to which the colony polled for the bill in this colony bPfore it is entitled. could be accepted. Here I maintain that Mr. NORTON : How could you expect to whatever may be said of the course taken do so with minority rule~ by Parliament in insisting upon the record Mr. RIGG: Having said so much by ing of 80,000 votes, that step was taken way of compliment to the representatives in the best interests of this country. The of New South Wales in the convention, I matter may be held to be one of opinion; must at the same time express my regret but the House in its good sense and judg that so much bitterness, illfeeling, and ment decided that 80,000 votes should be animosity should have been displayed by polled before any alteration should be made various speakers when before the electors. in the Constitution of this country. When If we take some of the most .fluent ad vo we consider that 80,000 is equivalent to cates of the bill we find that because a [Mr. Rigg. Governor's Speech : [21 JUNE1 1898.] .Address in Reply. 15 certain number of members of this House tion Restriction Bill and a bill dealing thought fit to oppose the Convention Bill with improvements on Crown lands. These they almost insinuated that it was because are two Upper House measures, and I the members of this House were afraid of have no doubt it will be possible to pass losing the £300 a year to which they are them this session. Another important mea entitled as the emolument attaching to sure proposed to be introduced is one for their position. It was unfair for gentle extending the hours of polling at elections. men occupying a high position in the I think it will be generally recognised that ]<'ederal Convention to say that we were an extension of the hours of polling, if actuated by motives of so base a charac only until 6 o'clock in the evening, would ter. With equal force we might have be a great boon to the mass of the workers turned round upon them and said that the of the colony, while it would probably re bill was a lawyers' bill, and they were sult in many more votes being polled. looking out for large pickings on their Want of time will prevent the Govern own account. So far as the bill itself is ment from bringing forward other matters concerned, it will be seen by the speech of importance. We all know that we have delivered by the Governor this morning had a long recess, and the reason is that that the Government propose that it the assembling of Parliament was kept should be morlified in such a way as to be back on account of the federal election, made acceptable to the people of New the object being to prevent the introduc South Wales. I recognise in Mr. Barton tion into that election of anything like the leader of the Federal Convention, and political and party bias. The only other one who is trusted by all the colonies of portion of the speech to which I shall Australia. I look upon Mr. Barton as allude, and it will only be in a brief way, the champion of the other colonies, and I is that referring to finance. The financial look upon Mr. Reid as the champion of position I consider satisfactory, showing, the interests of New South ·wales. If the as it does, that our prospects are brighter Premier only succeeds in getting the Pre in every way. It is the intention of the mier of Queensland with him, you will find Government to continue encouragement to that he will occupy,a very different position agricultural colleges and model farms, and in connection with the Federation Bill in this respect I cGmmend their policy. from that which he occupies at the present The present Minister has done more for time. If Queensland will only come into agriculture than any other man who has this federation, in my opinion we shall previously occupied the position. I hope receive fair treatment and justice. In he will continue in the path he has been their proposals to modify the Convention following for some time past., for if he does Bill the Government include an objection it will result in a greater area under crop in to the principle of equal representation in New South Wales than has ever been known the senate. Some of the financial provi before. Neither should the scrub lands sions are to be recast, and the Braddon of the Bogan, the improvement of which clause omitted altogether. It is proposed was taken in hand by the Government, be also that the same protection to the terri lost sight of. It is well known that there torial rights of each state as there is to the is a tremendous area of waste land in that representation of each state in the federal direction. The idea struck the Govern parliament should be given, and that there ment that, if they cleared off the scrub, should be included more definite provisions anJ let the land for agricultural purposes, with regard to inland rivers. I am quite they would derive a good revenue from it. sure bon. members will realise that as we They carried out that idea, and their hopes have granted so many millions of acres of have been more than realised. I think rand to the residents of back blocks in the the country has every reason to be con interior, it is only right that we should gratulated on the success of the present protect those holders in every possible way; Administration. This Ministry have been and in proposing to modify the Convention instrumental in rescuing the colony from Bill in this respect the Government have the depths of distress, and leading it into exercised a wise judgment. Amongst the the paths of happiness and prosperity. I measures which the Governmr.nt intend to have to thank the Government for the take in hand this session is the Immigra- honor conferred upon me in asking me 16 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. to move the address in reply. I had rather many cogent arguments which have been that the duty had devolved upon a more adduced against this pernicious principle. eloquent member of the Chamber, and one They have been for some months past daily who could have done more justice to the demonstrated to the conviction of the great subject. But since they did me the com majority, I may say, of the voters of this pliment of selecting me for this duty, I country, and· to the conviction of those have, in my own feeble way, done my best whose inconsiderate zeal for any kind of to perform it. I would only say, in con union made them careless of the terms of clusion, that I am in accord with the pro the contract set before them. There can posals of the Government for the modifi not be a doubt that no form of federa cation of the Convention Bill, and I have tion which has within it this principle much pleasure in moving the resolution. of equal representation will be acceptable Mr. DICK (Newcastle East) [5·32]: to the people of this country without The finished labours of the last convention, very great qualifications. The Governor's though they were placed before a people speech sets forth alternative qualifications. animated with the federal sentiment, failed The provision must either be amended by to arouse that degree of enthusism which the excision of the stipulation now known would lead to a sufficiently large vote to as the three-fifths majority fraud, or in bring about their acceptance. The reason default of that it must be qualified by the of this is, I think, manifest even to the introduction of a national referendum. I most frenzied advocate of the bill. That can hardly conceive that any man who has bill contained much that was good, a good the best interests of federation at heart deal that was harmless or indifferent, but can hesitate in a matter of this kind. also some defects of ·so alarming a nature Equal representation in the senate is un as to make every man who was not either doubtedly the greatest constitutional blot misled by misrepresentation, or blinded by on the measure. Equal representation in sentiment, pause before casting his vote the senate, unqualified, will indefinitely either one way or the other. This bill delay federation. Equal representation, introduced certain principles of govern with either of the qualifications mentioned, ment entirely foreign to all those ideas the latter of which is probably the theoretic which we are usually accustomed to asso solvent of deadlocks, will be acceptable to ciate with a free and enlightened people. the great majority of the people. I may Others of its provisions were of a novel say in defence of that position, without, as character, and to my mind, and also the I said before, going through the whole of minds of a great number of people of this the argaments usually set forth against it, country, utterly impracticable. However, that it is almost axiomatic to state that there is undoubtedly a general and wide the federal authority is to be erected for spread opinion in favour of union. But I the purpo3e of carrying out national affairs am pleased to see in the speech of his -that any fair federation, any reasonable Excellency, which I will quote, that: federation, any federation which deserves The Government are not prepareil, however, the name, must preserve pure and entire to abandon their efforts to arrive at. a satisfactory the principle of the dominance of the removal of those features of the bill which have national will. National government must prevented the people of this country from voting more largely in its favour, and which have caused not be violated by the intrusion of the so many thousands of the electors to vote provincial element. It seems to me that against it. by intruding the provincial element, as it Of course, opinion upon the character of was intruded into that bill, all chance of the required amendments will be as divided federation under that document was im as opinion was upon the original bill. mediately lost. Some of the financial pro There are some main points, however, in visions are also to be recast, and the Brad the bill upon which, I think, we may all don clause omitted altogether. It seems unite. The first amendment proposed to to me that in the discussion of the finan be made is that in the provision which cial clauses, in the attempt to solve the would impose upon the colonies entering federal finance problem, a vital mistake the union the unfair principle of equal re was made in separating three elements, presentation. It would be inexcusable for which in their nature, and which in every me at this period to set forth at length the sound financial view, should never be [Mr. Rigg. Govern01·'s Speech: (21 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 17 divorced, that is, the debts, principal assets, only can the advocate of state rights and the revenue. By the separation of stand. I think that the terms upon which these three elements, by treating them, not the free and independent colonies are to as complementary, but as distinct, a funda be called together into a federal union mental error was made which rendered should be clearly set down, and as far as almost impossible anything like a fair or their territorial rights are concerned, no reasonable adjustment of the federal fin variation should afterwards be made in ances. The Adelaide scheme, which was them without the individual distinct con probably not quite so disastrous to New sent of every state concerned. To that South Wales as the one now set forth in extent I am prepared to say that the con the bill-- stitution should not be amended without JVfr. NORTON : The hon. member con the consent of each and every state in tends for the surrender of the railways! terested, and no further. In the general Mr. DICK: This bill contains another working of the constitution. the national financial scheme even more disastrous to will must predomim1te; but in the terms New South Wales, and, at the same time, upon which the territorial arrangement of one which is likely to prove for all time a the various colonies are divided between source of continual bickering, jealousy, and federal and provincial, no v'1riation should rivalry. It seems to me, in answer to the be made in them without the individual interjection of the bon. member, that, in consent of the colonies concerned. I order to provide a sound scheme of federal think the hon. member for St. Peter's finance, the railways must be federated. Division sufficiently dealt with the· ques The railways being our principal asset, and tion of the inland rivers. The seat of the federal authority having the largest government is a matter on which an honest revenue -producing element allotted to difference of opinion might arise, although them, these two things, being in a sense I think there are weighty reasons why it complementary, must go together. How should be dealt with as set forth in this ever, that is only my personal opinion with speech. In the matter of appeals I can regard to this matter. I am prepared, as also follow the Government. Not being I expect eYery other man who desires a lawyer myself, I must take the opinion federation is prepared, to accept any fin of lawyers on this matter, and I under ancial scheme which will not do a substan stand that a most anomalous condition of tial injustice to any of the colonies propos affairs would exist under the provisions of ing to enter the union. the bill. I understand it is possible for Mr. NoRTON: The bon. member wants two parties in a dispute to go to different unification, not federation ! appeal courts, involving a possibility of 1\'Ir. DICK: It will be necessary then, conflicting judgments. Such an anomaly as the speech sets forth, to remodel entirely should undoubtedly be removed. the finance clauses of the bill. The Brad Mr. ORICK : It was a very bad lawyer don clause alone is sufficient to co~demn who told the bon. member that ! the financial provisions. Any attempt Mr. DICK: Sir Julian Salomons is my like that to impose an artificial and un informant. workable system with regard to the divi Mr. ORICK : He is wrong. The Privy sion of the main sources of revenue, must Council overrides every other court in the result in confusion and ultimate disaster. British Empire, and the hon. member " Money bills not to be amended by the knows tlmt ! senate." That is a matter- to which little The Right Ron. G. H. REID: But there or no reference need be made as it is one are two appeals, and a litigant can go to of those fundamental principles of govern either tribunal! ment to which all British communities 1\fr. DICK : As the hon. member for have for many years been accustomed. St. Peter's Division said, but very little time "The same protection for the territorial remains for this Parliament to deal with rights of each state as there is for the re measures of legislative reform. I see, presentation of each state in the federal however, that there are two measures to parliament, and this should include more be dealt with-one being the Alien Immi definite provisions with regard to in gration Restriction Bill, and the other a land rivers." It seems to me that here bill dealing with the value of improve· B 18 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. ments on Crown htnd. I think a majority agricultural centres, and the Government of the House will agree to each of those is to be congratulated upon their promise measures. Like the hon. member for St. to extend that instruction. Through the Peter's Division, I can congratulate the agency of these colleges, a silent revolution Government upon the satisfactory state of is going on in the industrial life of this the finances, and upon a satisfactory in country. \Vherever the operation of those crease in the general prosperity and the colleges can be extended, the more they are producing interests of the country. I multiplied, the greater will be the benefit find that a Vtlry large increase has taken conftlrred upon the prosperity and indus place in the area of land under cultivation try of this country. Although these mea during the last few years, and that there sures of what I may call purely provincial is every prospect of a still larger increase concern, should not be stopped by the great in the coming season. Paragraph 13 is, question of federation, still it is apparent to my mind, one of the most important in to all that, before that all-absorbing topic the speech. For many years a number of they sink into insignificance. It is a matter very worthy members of the community on which we may congratulate ourselves, have been struggling, owing to the mal that even the leader of the late Convention administration of past governments with has now seen fit to recede from that posi regard to the land laws. 'lve have a very tion of arrogant superiority, in which he deserving class in the community who derided every man as a dastard who did through unscientific land legislation have not think with him with regard to that been landed in financial difficulties. Men bill. have taken up land of varying qualities in Mr. CoPELAND : That is not true ! the back country, yet the same charges RoN. MmrBERS : It is true ! are exacted from them whether the land 1\ir. DICK: He derided every man as a be good or bad. I am assured that that dastard who ventured to differ from him on has occurred in very many cases, and Lhat the merits of that bill. He has now, how the measure referred to would afford sub ever, receded from that untenable atti stantial relief to these men, who deserve, tude, and has taken up a position more in not only justice, but even liberality at the harmony with the views of those who are hands of the Government. I see that the really in favour of federation, and more in beneficial effects of the Coal-mines Act harmony with the views of those who have prompted the Government to a desire really saved this country from what I con to extend the provisions of the act to other sider would have been a disaster. It de classes of mining, and a project is being pends, of course, upon how far that gen formulated to establish a national fund tleman is prepared to go; but it seems to for the benefit of miners. A provision of me he has done an essential service to that kind must commend itself to every federation by receding, as I understand he . member of this Assembly. When a great has, from the position which he took up calamity occurs, involving the loss of many some few weeks ago on the Convention lives, public sensibility is quickened, and Bill. It seems to me we have a -very relief pom·s in to such an extent that the happy omen in the fact that l\It·. Barton suffering which otherwise would take place is now prepared to fall in behind the anti is in a great degree alleviated; but month convention billites-that he is prepared to after month isolated accidents take place fall in behind them, and work with them of which the public hear little or nothing. to bring about the consummation of Aus It is of the greatest importance to a large tralian federation. I see in that attitude number of people in this country that some a very happy omen for the future. I have scheme of insurance of this kind, under the very much pleasure in seconding the regis of the Government, should be formu motion. ' lated, and I congratulate the Ministry upon Question proposed. taking up this measure of reform, which for [Ll!i·. Speal~e~· left the chair nt s·ss p.m. The a long time has agitated the minds of the House 1·csunud at 7'5 p.m.] miners, not only in the northern, but in the Mr. LYNE (The Hume) [7·7]: In rising southern and western districts. Clause 15 to address the House on the present occa sets forth advantages which have accrued sion, I desire to say that before I resume from the system of technical education in my seat I intend to take a certain course [Mr. Dick. Governor's Speech [21 JUNE, 1898.) Address in Reply. 19 which will be understood by my reference speech, but in the previous one, and I to it in this way; but before doing so, I think in the one befm·e that, he intended ·think it is necessary that I should refer at all hazards to pass into law before the to the speech which has been placed in end of the Parliament 7 What has become the hands of his Excellency the Governor of the Local Government Bill which he has to-day, and which I think I may charac repeatedly referred to, and which he has terise as an essay on the present situation, expressed his intention of passing into law 1 more particularly intended as an elec That measure was not revived last session. tioneering speech. I never read a gover Mr. ORICK: The hon. member is clearly nor's speech which was so long and had so out of order in referring to ancient history t little in it. Mr. L YNE : The measure has not been Mr. NORTON : vVas it not suitable for revived in this speech, and I fail to see the occasion-a stump speech at the end .. any important reference to it on the pre of the Parliament ! sent occasion. Then, what has become of Ivir. LYNE: Probably that is what it the proposed reform of the Legislative was intended for. There are matters in Oouncil7 the speech which call for a few words from Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: Upon which they were me, and I intend to deal with them in elected ! much the same way as the prime minister Mr. WILLIS : And for which they draw· said that we this session should deal with their screws ! the business before us-he said that the Mr. LYNE: If anything brought the session would be of a very short duration, present Government into existence it was and much :;;horter than hon. members the wild statements made by the Prime imagined when they assembled to-day. Minister to the people of the country on As was stated by the hon. member who the question of the reform of the Legisla moved the adoption of the address in tive Council, statements which inflamed reply, we have had a very long parlia the public mind to an extent to which it ment. He also said that it had been a had scarcely been inflamed before. very useful parliament. On that point Mr. OHAP)IAN : He said t.hat he would I beg to differ from him. This Parlia clear the fossils out ! ment has certainly passed a great num Mr. LYNE : Yes; and he said many ber of measures, but I should like the hon. other things which I have no doubt he member to point to any important mea intends to repeat. I hold in my hand one sures that have been passed into law by it. or two little extracts from one of the Though the measures which we have passed numerous speeches, whereby he not only are numerous, I think only one or two of inflamed the people of the country, but the· them have 'been of any importance at all. minds of a number of hon. members. The Mr. NORTON : vY e wal~t another parlia- right hon. gentleman said : ment to abolish them t · 1 We are also very anxious before the general Mr. L YNE : If the proceedings of this election takes place that the other Chamber Parliament have differed at all from those shall have an opportunity of reconciling them selves voluntarily to the necessity for a thorough of other parliaments, it has been in the reform in their constitution. I hope that those absence of legislation that could become hon. gentlemen will see their way to yield to .the law without the revision of the Upper demand of public opinion gracefully and volun Chamber. More amendments have been tarily, as the continuation in this country of a. nominee chamber has become impossible and in made by the Legislative Council in mea supportable; and I do hope that hon. members sures sent from this Chamber during the in that place will see that the extraordinary ten present Parliament than during any other ure upon which they have existed for so many parliament in this country. Our work years must come to an end. has been carried on at all hours of And, again: the night, our sessions have been the But a Government strong as the present Go longest that we have ever had, ·and fewer vernment is, and a party strong as is the party which supports the Government, cannot allow members have attended during the passing such a state of thinga to continue-cannot allow of legislation than ever before. I should private interests to dominate over the public like to know what has become of the very interests anrl rights of the people of this conn try important measures which the Prime Min any longer. ister stated, not only in the last Governor's l\1r. vV. l\1. HUGHES : Hear, hear ! 20 Governor's Speech: [ ASSEMBLY.l Address in Reply. Mr. LYNE : My hon. friend says newspapers to the effect that one great 1 ' Hear, hear !" He has made remarks m'ltter with which he was going to deal in regard to the Upper House as strong, was the Aliens Restriction Bill. It was if not stronger, than those made by the represented that he was going to get the Prime Minister ; but he has sat behind Home Government to agree to the bill the right bon. gentleman session after ses previously passed through this Chamber, sion although the Government was doing and which I ventured to tell him at that nothing in the matter. Further on the time would not be agreed to by the Go Prime Minister says : vernment of Great Britain. Now, it has Much as I regret the exhibition which has all tumbled absolutely to dust, there is not 'been made, in the interests of reform I feel sure a vestige of the bill in existence, nor is 'that it will make all the more easy a settlement any such bill likely to be passed into law -of this long-standing grievance of the people-a at the present time. But we haYe alto ''Settlement that will bring the other Chamber .into a proper position-the position of a useful gether a new bill referred to in the Go revising chamber. vernor's speech to-day. The bill is to con tain a proYision in the shape of an educa Can anyone have confidence in a Govern tional qualification. I should like to know ment which has professed so much on more how many aliens that educational qualifi than one occasion, and which fails to carry cation is going to keep out of this country. · out what it professes into practice; and, Let me direct the attention of the Prime leaving the matter, as far as the Council Minister to what took place the other day. is concerned, not in the same place as when I noticed that a number of these British this Government came into office, but subjects, who are objected to as being of ·.numerically strengthening that body in the no use in our community, or as being very ·way they have done 1 I think the public harmful, were prevented from landing in will see that this matter has been dangled Melbourne, and were brought on to :before them long enough, and that there Sydney. How many of these aliens landed has been no honesty of purpose on the in Sydney have been brought from south part of the Government in carrying out ern ports 1 I should like to know whether the reform they have talked about so the Government intend to take action to glibly, and on the strength of which so lessen the evil which exists in that direc many electors were induced to vote for tion at this time. I am speaking more them at the time of the last general elec particularly of hawkers who travel through tion. The mover of the address in reply the country, and who create a great deal referred in glowing terms, more than once, of trouble and fright, and who sometimes to the useful measures which have been are a serious menace to women and child passed by this Parliament. Now, I regard ren in outlying parts of the country. We the sessions of this Parliament as having have this bill p~oposed to us to deal with been of a very harmful nature in every the matte} in such a way that it cannot respect. We have had a strong Ministry possibly have the effect of keeping out backed up by a large majority. those coloured races we desire should be Mr. NoRTON: A weak Ministry, backed kept out. up by a strong majority ! Mr. NORTON : You never cau while we Mr. LYNE: Some members of the Min are part o-f the British Empire ! istry, no doubt, are very strong men; but Mr. LYNE: I quite agree with thehon. no ministry which has carried on in the member that they cannot be kept out. But way this Ministry has done could continue the Prime Minister assured this House to enjoy the support and confidence of this before he went to England-at least he House or of this country. There is one told the bon. member for Redfern so other matter I desire to refer to at this that this was one of the main objects stage, and that is the action of the Prime which were taking him to England at the Minister on the occasion of his visit to time he went. England. When he found that there were Mr. NORTON : Part of his old game of some members of his party, and some of "bluff" ! the public outside, who were somewhat The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I never adverse to his going to England at the had such a conversation with the hon. time he did, a paragraph appeared in the member for Redfern! [Mr. Lyne. Governor's Speech: [21 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 21 Mr. L YNE: Of course I accept the right the other day, referred to an increase of bon. gentleman's statement that he never 22,000 in the mining population of this had any conversation with the hon. member. colony ; but he failed to point out that a The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Not on large portion of this increase was due to that subject ! the unemployed, who had been given Mr. LYNE: 1 certainly saw paragraphs miners' rights, and who had been sent appearing in the public prints which would into the country. In some cases these lead one to suppose that that conversation men have even gone so far as to sell their had taken place, either directly or through rights, or . to raise money upon them, and a third person. Now, we ha\·e nmuy other they. make up the right bon. member's similar questions dealt with in this speech. increase in the mining population of this For instance there is reference to new community. It is a fictitious incrPase. All legislation regarding public lands, and also that the Government have done has been to the large amount which is to be received to distribute some of the unemployed over from the scrub lands, upon which labour the backwoods of the colony. and money have been to my mind abso Mr. CANN : They cannot sell miners' lutely wasted. The paragraph to which I rights! refer states that a return is to be obtained Mr. LYNE: But they raised money on from these lands which will repay to the them in a number of cases. I mention the Government the capital cost. I happened fact to show that many of the men are to see the other day some of the tender11, really not miners at all. Some of them, when I was down south, for these very no doubt, have learnt mining; but when lands, and in no case that I saw was the the bon. member talks of an increase of amount tendered such as would pay any 22,060 in the mining population of this thing off the capital cost. The capital colony, he is talking of something which cost has been so great that the rent which is ridiculous. I know of some instances I saw would not do more than pay interest where these owners of miners' rights have on it. I saw some cases which came, I endeavoured to obtain a night's lodging or think, before theWagga W agga land board a small advance of money upon them, where the sum .of 4s., or o\·er 4s., an acre showing that they placed comparatively was charged to the selector for these scrub no value upon them. I am also reminded lands when the work could be done for a that many of these men disposed of their half, or a quarter of the amount. rail way passes. I am only referring to Mr. J. C. WATSON: That was not the this matter to show that there has been a Bogan land ; it was Grong Grong land wholesale attempt on the part of the Go was it not 1 vernment to show that, as a result of their Mr. L YNE : It was land down south, fiscal policy, there has been a reduction in on this side of W agga W agga. I was say the number of the unemployed. With re ing that reference was made in the speech gard to other measures which have been to the fact that the returns would pay the pasoed into law, I should like the public cost of clearing. How the right hon. gen service of the country to give an expres tleman can say that it is possible to justify sion of opinion as to whether or not they this expenditure I do not know. It is true approve of the action of the Government that the Premier and the Minister of in creating a public Sflrvice board which Public Instruction have succeeded in dis· has done s.uch great harm to, and has persing the unemployed from Sydney. I dealt so heartlessly with, a very large sec have not just now an opportunity to lay tion of that service. I do not for one my hand on the number of unemployed moment say t.hat there should not be a whose applications have been dealt with board of this character, or that . there since this Government have been in office; should not be some restricting board so but an immense number of men have far as the public service is concerned. 'rhis applied for work, and have not obtained board, however, has carried matters with it, and those who have obtained it have a very high hand, and it has done to the frequently obtained work of a character public service that which a private indi which has not been remunerative either vidual would discard. to them or to the state. The right hon. Mr. l'iORTON: It is tin-pot tyranny, gentleman, in a speech which he delivered placed above the law ! 22 Got'e1'iW1' s Speech [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. Mr. LYNE : That is one of the reform included in the address proposals in refer ing laws which the Premier has passed. I ence to the Commonwealth Bill, and if those Bhonld like also to refer to another matter, proposals are to be carried into law in any which was one of the great points in the reasonable time, what is the use of taking Government programme-the passing of the referendum on the fiscal question 1 the land and income taxes. I know those :i't'Ir. SLEATH : To get the opinion of the taxes "ere supported by most of those who people! are sitting below the gangway, but I ven Mr. LYN E : And what is the use of ture to think that they regret very much their opinion if the Government are not that they were passed into law, because going to deal with the matter 1 their inquisitorial character and the method Mr. J. C. WATSON: Is the hon. member in which they have been carried out has going to sink the fiscal question 1 'brought retribution on the head of the Mr. LYNE: I am not; but if the Pre Government which passed them. If it had mier is honest in what he says with refer been desired to pass legislation which would ence to the federal question, the statement be of an effective character, then that to which I have been referring is out of legislation should have been pasRed ; but place in an address of this kind. If the the legislation to which I have referred Premier is going to pre~s the matter to a raises money which docs not go to the pur successful issue, he should do so in a very pose for which it is intended. One half of short period, and not allow it to be hung it goes into the hands of those who are up for the next two or three yearR. There employed to value and to collect. That are several other matters in the address is not the kind of legislation, carried out which require casual referfnCP. One of as it has been, and at a time when there them is the patting on the back of the was no necessity for it, which is likely to Government with reference to the condi receive the approbation of a large section of tion of the revenue aud expenditure. I ·the community. It is, howen,r, legisla find, according to a statement published in tion of a character which the Premier and a Government Gazette, that the reYenue a number of his followers rejoice in haYing and expenditure do not differ Yery much. ,passed during the past two or three ses~ions But it is an extraordinar.v state of things ·Df Parliament. \Ve have also in this very that., whilst the revenue for the l11st month · eloquent speech which has been delivered is only £602,079, the a\·eragP monthly ex a proposal which was promised-I think I penditure is £804,537. I have not any am right in saying so-to the leader of figures to go npon, because the Premier the h>~bour party, the hon. member for has not made any statement lately as to Redfern-- what the figures are, nor have we for a Mr. J. 0. WATSON : Carried by this long time had any financial statement; .iHouse! but it seems to me, from what I know of M:r. LYNE: The bon. member seems to the country dibtrict~, that there are large know to what I am referring. The Pre sums of money kept back from the last . mier has inserted in the address paragraph month's expenditure, and not included in 9, which is to the effect that the Legisla that month, and those sums will probably tive Assembly, by motion dated 25th be carried over to the next financial year, August, 1896, resolved that there should so that, at the termination of the financiaL be a special referendum at the g<'neral year on the 30th June, it may be shown election on the fiscal question. that there has been no Yery grrat de Mr. CmcK : I thought he had buried ficiency. I am, at the present time, in that question ! possession of facts to the effect that moneys l\Ir. LYNE: That is what I am about which are due, and which should have been to refer to. The Premier does not say any paid some consicl€'rable time past, are held thing about the fiscal question in any part back. It is almost impossible to get them of the address, and if we are to believe the paid at the time they becomP. due. To put,Jished report of his speech, delivered corroborate that, we also find that there is on the south coast the other day, it is not a shortage -- to be made one of the planks, or even the The Right Ron. G. H. REID : 'Vill the great plank, of the platform of his party hon. member send me the name of one ac at the general election. The Premier has count that has been kept back in that way? [Mr. Lyne. Governor's Speech: [21 Jmm, 1898.] Address in Reply. 23 :Mr. LYNE: I think I can send the hon. for having paid according to statutory and learned member the names of a great requirements, he would find that things many. would look very different from the aspect The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Will the which he has placed upon them in para hon. member give them to me 1 graph 11 of his speech. I find also that Mr. L YNE : I will get a list and give the loan expenditure is coming up a little them to the hon. and learned member. bit, too. I ask hon. members who recol lect the last estimates which were brought Mr. CmcK : If the hon. and learned down here, and who remember the ::;mall member has a surplus, let him put it on works, amounting to a large sum, which the table and let us see it! were transferr.ed, for the first time, at any 1\1 r. N ORTO:-< : Better still, let us finger rate for a few years, from the expenditure it and feel it ! out of revenue into expenditure out of The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I think loan-works which never should have been I can explain all that the hon. member placed in that category, and which should refers to! have been debited to the ordinary revenue Mr. LYNE : I hope the hon. member and not charged to loan-to note that the will. What I say applies not to one or loan account for the year ending 30th to two districts. If hon. members will June, 1896, was £2,495,097, and the ex only narrate their experience they will say penditure for the whole of last year was that it applies to nearly every district of £1,548,105; but for the eleven months pf the colony. In corroboration of what I this year we have got practically the same say, I may mention that last month there amount, leaving a month's expenditure yet was a short expenditure, which allowed the to be added, which will increase the loan Premi,er to bring his expenditure to about expenditure very considerably for this year £20 000 below the revenue at the present over what it was last year 1 For eleven tim~. In another p::,.ragraph in the speech months of this year it was £1,533,021, so credit is taken for paying off debts to the that there is a gradual creeping up of loan 'ilxtent of £900,000. The paragraph is expenditure for the purpose of being able worded as follows :- to say that the expenditure charged to It affords me much gratification to inform you revenue has not exceeded the revenue by that the reYenue is in a most satisfactory condi a large amount. The hon. member h11,s tion. During the three financial years ending :30th instant deficiency debts of preYious year,, not had one year when he has had a satis railway debts, and interest thereon have been f;wtory credit balance in the public ac paid out of current revenue to an amount counts; and, on the \vhole, he has had, approaching £900,000 sterling. each year, a very large sum to debit, and he The Premier might haYe gone a little fur has been living on borrowed money most ther and stated that there was a statutory of the time he has been in office. <:om pulsion for 'those moneys to be paid, 1\f r. FERGUSON : I wish I could do that! and that that statutory compulsion was the Mr. L YNE : I and many others would :result of the work, not of the present, but like to do the same. There are one or i)f a previous government. I do not think two matters in this speech which I do not that any of the statutory laws dealing think I need deal with, because, if I were with this matter have been introduced by to deal with all the items in the speech, it the present Government. Fortunately, would occupy me for a very considerable however, the previous Government passed time. I now come to the point with which statutory laws by which these moneys I am going to deal more specifically. Para should be paid to reduce debts. The Pre graph 7 refers to the intentions oft.he Go mier, however, does not say, for the en vernment regarding this very all-absorbing lightenment of the public, that when he question of federation, and on that I intend commenced his financial experiments, a to move this amendment : little over three years ago, he obtained about £1,100,000 of borrowed money That the address be amended by the insertion of the following words, to stand paragraph 2 : ·which he has put down as revenue-from " That this Honse desires to inform your Ex Treasury bills, which has become a diJbt cellency that it declines to allow the present on the colony. If he was to deduct that Administration to deal with the important ques amount from the amount he takes credit . tion of federation." 24 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] .Address in Reply. I feel that the Prime Minister is not the Whilst the hon. gentleman, in lip service, one who should hold the reins of govern was supporting a very important amend ment at a time when that question is being ment I moved in reference to the refer dealt with. endum, and he got on the record words Mr. FERGUSON : That is for the people which would be satisfactory to the ears of to say! the people, he was conspiring behind my Mr. LYNE: There is no question about back to defeat my amendment for the that, and the people will have to say it. referendum. :J\;fr. WILLIS: They have said it! The Right Ron. G. H. REID : That is Mr. LYNE : No, they have not. another of the hon. member's charges ! Mr. WILLIS: Yes they l)ave! Mr. LYNE: The hon. memberwascon An HoN. MmiBRR: Majority rule ! spiring behind my back, with members of Mr. LYNE: In 1891, the Premier was the convention, to take another proposal a dire opponent of the proposal to federate instead of the proposal I was supporting the Australian colonies. ln a speech which for a mass referendum, and the outcome of he made in the Protestant Hall on one that intrigue was to bring in what is occasion, when he dealt so drastically with known now as the deadlock clause with the Commonwealth Bill, he ridiculed the the three-fifths majority. idea of this colony joining the other colo .Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: "Which he now con nies in any federation; and he likened the demns! o.ther colonies to drunkards, and this Mr. LYNE : Whicl, he now condemns. colony to the sober individual in the group. Mr. WILLIS : The majority will get Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK: Mr. Barton theit· own directly! was a free-trader in 1891 ! Mr. LYNE : The Premier did not con Mr. LYNE: I do not know what the demn that clause, so far as I am aware, in bon. member is at the present moment the meetings of the convention at Mel because he was a protectionist on one bourne; but after he came back to this occasion. colony and fonn .And nearly the last, though I suppose the ing round on almost everything he advo right bon. gentleman does not think it cated in that convention; and, because he the least, comes the question of the seat finds that it is popular in this colony, put of government, and these are only some of ting forward a programme of amendments the few matters that have been included in in such a way as to retard inslead of assist the amendments which the right hon. ing federation-a federationincludingN ew member is going to bring forward. ·when South Wales,andihopeQueensland; Ihope we met in the convention in :Melbourne, Qneensland will join, and also Victoria and I felt that the proper course for those who South Australia-under these circum t-hought that the seat of government stances I trust some one else will take should be in the mother colony was to charge of the reins when this question is ask the convention to make a provision to being dealt with. VVe have only to look that effect in the bill, and the right hen. at the result of the negotiations with the gentleman was one of those when I first prime ministers of the other colonies which gave not-ice of the resolution to induce me the hon. gentleman attempted during the not to press it to a division on the first last few week~. Owing to the persistent occasion; but I felt that I was not doing way in which the hen. gentleman attempted justice to myself or to this colony, and I to kill the bill, the other prime ministers moved the resolution on a second occasion, ha,·e practically refused to meet him to deal and on that occasion the right bon. gentle with the question, and he will have great man voted with me. difficulty in obtaining the confidence of Mr. w. ni. HuGHES: Give him time; those gentlemen in the future, even if he be always comes right in the end ! is returned to this House. Mr. LYNE: The hen. member has taken The Right Ron. G. H. REID : They three years to get right, and he has not much prefer a softer man! got right yet. The right bon. gmtleman Mr. LYNE: The hen. member cannot did, after a nudge from myself in the con say that I was soft in the convention. I vention, call with the ayes for a division thought this colony had a right to be con on the question as to the place for the seat sidered, and on all occasions I endeavoured of government. The standing orders of the to do what I thought was Lest in the in South Australian Parliament require two terests of the people of New South \Vales, voices or else there is no division, and though I could not always succeed in get when I saw what wa~ coming I had to ting what I wanted. There is only one give him a pretty good lift up before he way in which to bring this matter to a suc would movP. cessful issue. It is not by setting forth a The Right Ron. G. H. REID: In the long list of amendments, including almost Parliament of this colony one voice is everything, but by touching only those enough! questions which would be difficult and Mr. LYNE: The right hon. gentleman almost impossible of alteration if once im did get up and vote for the seat of goYern ported into the Commonwealth Bill. ment to be in New South Wales. Mr. AsHTON: vVhich amendments would The Right Ron. G. H. REID : The hen. the hon. member discard~ member would mess the whole thing if he Mr. LYNE: Those which I should feel took it up! that I must insist upon are the alteration Mr. LYNE: The lwn. member is the in the deadlock clause to a majority vote, last man who should hurl a stone at any and either the omission altogether or a one for making a mess of legislation. He considerable amenil.ment of the Braddon is the last man who should hurl a stone at clause. I have been as strongly in favour any one for inconsistency. The public of of the seat of government being in New this colony have no confidence whatever South Wales as any onE', and more so, in his statement that he is desirous of ob but I do say this, after fighting as hard as tainin~· amendments of the bill which will I could-and I shall in the future fight as be agreed to by the other colonies, and hard,-that should not be an absolute bar accepted by the people of this colony. to federation. Some of the other matters vVhoever deals with this question, I feel referred to can be altered after the Con that the action of the hon. gentleman in vention Bill is framed, and the reason I the convention, and his actio; now in turn- say they can be altered is this : in. the [M?·. Lyne. Governor's Speech : [21 JUNE, 1898.] ·.Address in Reply. 27 last clause of the bill which provides for are those that must be altered before he any alteration of the constitution it is pro can agree to the bill. I do not desire to de vided that you must get a majority of each tain the House at any length on this ques house of parliament; you have then to get tion. I feel that if you leave the matter in a majority by means of the referendum; the hands of the hon. member and those there must be a majority of the states, associated with him, you wi:ll have very and then a total majority of the whole. great difficulty in compelling him, if he Thlr. HUGHES: Is the hon. member in returns with a majority to this House, to faY our of that 127 th clause as it stands 1 alter his usual formula and usual course of 1\lr. L YNE : I do not object very much action, and prevent him from keeping this to it. I think it should not be too easy to matter dangling before the people of the alter the constitution. Those requirements country until such time as another election are Yery stiff, but even if we could not comes round. But for the experience of alter that, I should say it should be no the bon. gentleman which I have had in reason for refusing the constitution. the past, I should not feel so strongly in Mr. AsHTON: Does the hon. member this matter. ·when we find the whole of think that the 400,000 people of the three the Ministry not carrying out their own small iitates should be able to prevent an intentions, their own wishes, and their own amendment of the constitution 7 statements, but going with their newly 1\Ir. LYNE: No, I do not think they created Attorney-General, and agreeing should. I am asked the question whether with everything he dictates, then it is a or not I should ohject to federation if that forlorn hope to get anything from this Go dause were not altered. I say I do not vernment to which the people of this coun want to make it too easy, but I think at try, and the people of the other colonies, the presmt time it is too stiff. 'What I or a majority of them, with Queensland was going to say on that particular point included if possible, would agree. is this : that if that clause is left as it is, Mr. WILLIS: ·Does the hon. member and i£ you wish to amend the deadlock approve of Mr. \Vant's action 7 dause, where the t\vO houses sit together, or e1ual state representation, or the finan· Mr. LYNE : I do not approve of Mr. be no difficulty in paying all accounts sort. I intend in the remarks I am going before that date and charging them to this to make to abstain from any attack. I year. I am going to ask Parliament to simply wish to show the public fully, now give me money to clear off accounts which that I have been challenged, the true his remain unpaid for want of funds; which tory of my course with reference to the means for want of a vote. I wish to deal federal movement. with this matter in the fairest possible Mr. CRICK: The right hon. melllber way. voted one way and talked the other ! Mr. CRICK : We will not trust you ! The Right lion. G. H. REID : I have The Right Hon. G. H. REID : After seen day after day in the newspapers listening to the speech of the hon. member opposed to me -- for The Hume on the subject of federation, I begin to wonder under which king the Mr. \VILLIS: None of the newspapers have opposed the right hon. member! Opposition has come, whether the hon. gentleman who stood at the table to-night The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I mean is not the shadow of somebody else. This en the mattet· of federation. I have seen is not the courageous, outspoken advocate day after day the most r.stounding ·mis for· the rights of New South ·wales which statements of fact --- I honestly admit thehon. gentleman always Mr. -WILLIS: In the Daily Telegraph was. No one can deny him credit for taking nowhere else! a perfectly honest and fearless course in The Right Hon. G. H. REID: No, in the convention in the defence of, not the a newspaper which I used to think a per unfair, but the rightful interests of New fect miracle of self-possession and self South Wales. But it is a different sort of restraint.. gentlemu.n whose voice we hear to-night. Mr. NORTON : \Veil, the right hon. mem Is this a preliminary arrangement for a b:>r cannot give him much more now ! transformation scene, in which the lion The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I am not hearted companion of the Attorney-General going to speak very unkindly of that news will become the brother-in-arms of the bon. paper, because I acknowledge the very and learned member, Mr. Barton 1 great support which the Governnwnt l1ave Mr. SEE : The Attorney-General forsook received from it during nearly the whole him and came back to you ! of our financial experience. The Right Hon. G. H. REID : He came Mr. --WILLIS: It has kept you a]i,-e! -nack to an old friend, and there are few The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I have men who, having the opportunities which had to face the bon. member's chief, I have he had for forming a party of his own, had to face the late Sir Henry Parkes, and would have acted so fairly and generously a number of other people who have all to me as he did. Now I want to deal been allied, but I have triumphed. You with the bon. member for The Hume on can add the Sydney Jf01·ning Herald nnd a more important point. The bon. gentle all the other allies you can get; you can man has put before the House and the bring all the Bruce Smiths and the Wises, country a perfectly legitimate issue, to the who, although free traders by profession, effect that the Government should not be from the moment I got into this high posi trusted with the federal cause. That is a tion have sought to undermine me-you perfectly fair, legitimate, political issue, can add all these to the other allies you and it has this advantage: that it is one <;:an get; you can adopt all the methods of of the most valuable issues that could be either civilised or of savage warfare, and raised at the present time I am prepared to still you will find me in the hour of dan get• meet our opponents upon the old political and of triumph at the head of the victori cries, I am prepared to meet them on this ous liberal army. Having allowed all these cry; but I hope that whatever the develop misstatements to be published day after ment in connection with this federal agita day friends have come to me o\·er and oYer tion may be, men of all parties will try to again saying, "Why do you not correct keep it above the dirtier aspects of political this and that?" but I had a sort of feeling warfare. I hope that we shall endeavour that a useful sort of friend of mine, when in this national cause to rise above mere Parliament met, would gather up n.ll the personal feelings of this sort ot· of that things I ought to mention and put them [The Right Hon: G. H. Reid. Governor's Speech : [21 JUNE, 1898.] 31 before me, and that the hon. member for take the earliest oppo;tunity of informing yom: The Hume has done I am happy to say. Excellency, that, wh1lst fully recognising the distinE;uished ability and zealous labours of the l\lr. ORICK : He has only touched the convention, and still feeling a desire for federal fringe of it ! union 'on principles just to the several colonies ,, The Right Hon. G. H. REID: No we are ?f opinion that the bill drafted by tl;e con~entwn for the purpose of founding an Aus doubt. I see that all the cannons are ~rahan Commonwealth is not t.·.sed on principles loaded ; but I can tell my professed friends Just to the se\·eral colonies in some important and my enemies, too, that they maythreate~ respects, two of which we desire to indicate and try to intimidate, but that wh<>n the namely:- ' 1. The powers over revenue, taxation and ex hour of danger comes they will find well penditl~re ?onferred on the propos~d senate. enough that this party-because I do not 2. The reJectiOn by the convention and the claim for myself any particular strenoth omission from the bill, of respo~sible go th.at this pm:ty; as a united liberal party, vernment. as a necessary part of the con wrll be qmte prepared for all their stitution.· manreuvres. I would like to show that, I then referred to a clause which handed instead of this shifty course, which it is to ov~r to the federal parliament the power the interest of those hon. gentlemen to to 1nterfere with our railway Tates with assign to me-and it is to the interest of out in any sense a~suming any share of the the Opposition, no matter what the sub financial responsibility. I should like to ject is, to show that I am a perfect arche point out that these points really touch type of everything deceptive and elusive; the very heart of the objections which but I want to show even these gentlemen are. taken, not only by myself, but by, I -and it is hard to convince them, because believe, a great majority of the people the verdict is already in their pockets to-day. that my course in this matter has not Mr. ORICK: \Vhy not come to the bin bee~ inconsistent. I do not want to speak of 1898 ~ to JUrymen who are sworn to return a The Right Hon. G. H. REID: Surely in dealing with an important matter of this verdict against me-l am speakina0 through this House to the people of the country · kind I may be allowed to proceed in my and, just as' it was right that the leader of own way, and to deal with the events of the Opposition should take the course he 1891 before I deal with the events of has done, every bon. member, I am sure 1898. My enemies want me to take the will admit that it is my turn now to mak~ reverse way of dealing with these things; out the case of the Government and it but I am not so young or soft as to be will be for members opposite to t;ke what taken off the track in that simple way. I I say, and, if they can, to show that it is want to point out that in 1891 the senate unworthy of reliance. As for the Govern was put in a position by statute law of me~t, they have never given me any trouble. amending _a large number of money bills, Mr. SLEATH : And the bon. member for people have an opportunity of judging for Phillip Division ! themselves of the two sets of men under The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Yes, precisely similar conditions. When men and the hon. member for Phillip Division; are in opposition and hungry for office, they had the battle-axe with them too. they will promise millions of things. The This Government was complete from Octo test of a government is when they are in ber, 1891, until towards the close of 1893, office. What have they done 7 When they when Mr. Barton and Mr. R. E. O'Connor were in office the flag ought to have been terminated their connection wit!:! it. But waived and the drums beaten, and the for two solid years the flag was in the step kept marching to union ; but when hands of the flag-bearer-dusty in the in office the march to union slac-kened off, ministerial room. and the flag was forgotten. But now our Mr. A. B. PIDDINGTON : The bon. and enthusiastic federation friends have got learned member might mention that Mr. another flag, and can get any number of Barton only joined the Ministry on the drums, it seems, and they are prepared to condition that he was to ha\·e a free put themselves again on the order of the hand! country as a ministry to dPal with this The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Yes, matter. Now, I come to the attitude of articles of war and campaign were formally the present Ministry in connection with dt·awn up before :Hr. Barton left his free the question of federation. We did not trade friends of E:J.st Sydney, and framed come into office under pledges of any kina. a protectionist tariff. in connection with federation. We came into office in 1894, upon questions of locali Mt'. MACDONALD : Did he get in for politics entirely. In 1894 federation played East Sydney ? no part in the political fight. We were· The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Yes, under no obligation at all to the electors to strengthen the free-trade Government to take federation up; but I took it up, the Parkes federation. and my colleagues took it up. We came Mr. CRICK : ·what has this to do with into ofiice in the month of August, 1894, the question? and sat on until towards the end of the The Right Ron. G. H. REID : Hon. year, and within one month after my first members must remember that during some recess I had got the other premiers of Aus weeks past I have stood not altogether tralia into a conference to bring this great veiled allusions to the traitors that are to national movement into real life. be rubbed on the floor, and who are to be Mr. CHANTER: ---- put upon the scaffold. Of course they are The Right Hon. G. H. REID: They to be allowed a word or two in explana naturally want to deal with the man who _ tion ; but that is not to affect the inevit suits them best; but I have yet to learn, able result. What I can say is this: that sir, that those who are to dictate the choice I have all through the late campaign abso of the electors of New South Wales are lutely abstained from the slightest per the premiers of the other colonies; and it sonal reference to any one gentleman may well be that people with elementary engaged in it. I have had a number of principles of business prudence will not veiled allusions to myself which I have send a man to fight for alterations who stood, but now that I am put on my defence swore that they were not necessary, who by the Opposition, I wish to make that de swore that the bill was an absolutely just fence complete, and it is impossible to do bill, who told the people of this country so without, to a certain extent, going into that if it was not passed all would be chaos the history of this movement. The solid -bloodshed. fact is that during those two years, with Mr. CRICK : That is why the hon. mem the great cause of federation falling to ber voted for it ! pieces, the Government never got further The Right Ron. G. H. REID : This sort than an abstract debate on a general point, of talk about the men who will be accP-pt and never got into Committee to revise or able to the pt·emiers of other colonies is consider one clause of the Federal Bill. bad talk-it is unworthy talk, because the That is the record of the flag-bearers of people will want men who will be faithful federation when they were in office. The to their interests, not men who gain the c 34 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. garland-s and wreaths of Australian honor that was a distinct service to federation, by forgetting the just rights of their own and it was one which we all shared in people. common. Now we come down from that Mr. CmcK : That is why the hon. mem broad platform of Australian federation to ber voted against it ! business, and it is at the business point The Right Hon. G. H. REID: Although that men ought to begin to leave the flag I have been rather goaded into remarks alone, to leave all the drums alone, to leave with reference to my brother premiers, I these implements of premature rejoicing can only say that no Premier of New South alone, and deal on solid business principles 'Vales has been on more cordial or friendly with the great difficulties in the way terms with the premiers of Australia than of Australian federation. I have bad two I have been. sorts of charges made against me, and :Mr. CRICK : Mr. Kingston does not neither of them can be true ; they cannot seem to be very thick with the hon. mem both be true. The hon. member for The ber .iust now ! Hume to-night accused me of practically The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Not just coming from the Melbourne Convention in ·now. 1\:Ir. Kingston would rather have faYour of this bill of 1898. the other little boy ; but if the people of Mr. CRICK: Why did the hon. member this country, deciding for themselves and vote for it 1 in their own interests, send me back to The Right Hon. G. H. REID : But all represent them, I would like to see :M:r. the time I was in Melbourne I was abused Kingston, or a thousand Mr. Kingstons, by the Melbourne daily press on the ground treating me with discourtesy. It is quite that I was a selfish, obstructi \"O represent:ot natural, in the game of politics, that while tive of New South vVales, and that there there is a chance of getting their own way was no dealing with me ; and it has since they should look askance at the man who been stated, not only by the hon. gentle will not give it to them, and that they man, Mr. Lyne, but by any number of other should be prepared to crown with ever persons, and repeated by one of the caut.ious lasting praise the man who will. But organs, no doubt, of public opinion, that when it is found that this or any other that was the sort of attitude which I Government come forward speaking the maintained during these conventions. I voice of the people of New South \'Vales, should like to read to the House a few depend upon it, sir, no matter who the words which I addressed to the convention individual may happen to be, he will be on the 9th March last, when it was within treated with respect by his brother pre a day or two of the closing of its sittings, miers. However, in the year 1895, the and I ask hon. members to listen to this premiers met. Now comes the point, and I language, and judge whether I played the do think I am entitled to a certain amount craven part which is now attributed tome: of credit for shifting the track of federation I feel extremely depressed by the shape in from the old official groove of gentlemen which this bill is. I am profoundly impressed with the feeling that it may fail to command the in high ministerial offices to the people support of the majority of the electors. themselves ; and I do claim for that pre miers' conference the credit of having by Mr. NoRTON: If the bon. member had its decision secured that there should be had more moral courage in the convent.ion an election of representatives made from he would have saved all this trouble ! the people, that the bill should be discussed The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I feel that to attempt to secure the supreme by Parliament in a draft shape, that the and final authority in this commonwealth on the amendments should go back to the con part of a small minority of Australians against a vention and should be completed, and that large majority of Australians must break down. then the bill should be put before the elec Has not that language been absolutely tors of Australia. That process of educa justified? tion, that process of bringing the .whole Mr. NoRTON: That is the hon. member's people of Australia into this great work of strongest condemnation in voting for the federation· has, by its consequences, proved bill! that the governments that did that have The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Well, helped to make it the great popular burn execute me for that, but not for the other ing issue it is at the present time. I think things. [Tlte Right Hon. G. H. Reid. Governor's Speech: (21 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 35 \Vhen we view the source from which the be glad to work with me, I told him at re\•enue is to come to carry on this common once at that table "I cannot take that wealth, and when we find that time after time those who represent a minority of the tax bill up with the slightest enthusiasm." payers gain their way and mould this instru When I told him that I could not take ment, which was to be designed to express the up the biil with the slightest enthusiasm, national will, in such a way that when the I said "but I will be very slow to take national will is expressed it can be indefinitely thwarted-- any course to prevent the bill from having a fair chance before the people." Is that the language of a craven supporter Mr. vVILLIS: The hon. member would of that bill1 see which way the cat jumps t Mr. WILLIS: No; it is the language of The Right Hon. G. H. "REID : You a man who would vote for the bill! may put it in that way. But I wish to Mr. ORICK : Who did vote for the bill ! let hon. members of this Rouse see that The Right Hon. G. H. REID: It is that outspoken statement in :Melbourne rather a compliment to me that gentlemen showed every man in Melbourne and in who are very clever can harp on only one this colonv that that bill as it stood did little thing. I went on to say: not com~and my approval ; and I will My hon. friends may be absolutely just in all now n·fer to an extraordinary mistake they are attempting to do, but as one who wishes to see this enterprise so concluded that those which the .hon. member for The Hume who will have to bear the heat and burden of has made-I am sure not intentionally. great battles to make this the law of the land, He drew down the applause of his friends shall be p11t in such a position that they can go to the electors and conscientiously recommend on the Opposition benches by the state this bill, I feel bound to say that I feel no pros ment that I opposed the 11ational refer pect of doing that. endum. ·well, some say that I did it, and some s!ty Mr. LYNE : No, I said the right hon. that I did not. gentleman voted for it, but at the same An HoN. .MEliiBER: Which did you do? time was intriguing in the lobbies ! The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Who The Right Hon. G. H.~ REID : The can tell? Now, I will take another pass fact. is that I voted for it. Of the New age from the same speech : South vVales delegates, Mr. Brunker, 1\f r. Talk as we may about the referendum, talk as Reid, Mr. Carruthers, and I see Mr. R. E. we may about the democracy, this bill cannot O'Connor also voted with Mr. Lyne for a possibly pass unless we gain the goodwill and national referendum. support of the democracy of Australia. ~What An RoN. ME:IIBER: Where were ~!fr. -earthly use is it for us to put this bill before the people of Australia unless it is in some sort of vVise and Mr. Barton 1. shape that, at any rate, convinces them that The Right Ron. G. H. REID : Mr. Wise those who, in an especial manner, will represent and Mr. Barton are known to be thorough them have some sort of fairness and equality in opponei1ts of this principle of the referen the distribution of political power? dum. "Mr. \Vise made what I must admit Now, there is a speech dealing with this was one of the ablest speeches that I ever work at the eleventh hour, even before heard against the referendum, and Mr. the Braddon blot was in the bill, and Barton has always been opposed to it, as surely hon. members will see at any rate we all.know. I voted with Mr. Lyne on that the charge that I left Melbourne the referendum. leading those premiers or anyone el~e to An HoN. MEMBER: It was knocked out! believe that I was going to stump the The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Yes, by country in favour of that bill is absolutely 36 to 10. false ; and as for these suggestions of the Mr. ORICK: Then the hon. member voted hon. member that the premiers of the other for the bill1 -colonies had any kind of promise that I The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I would would go through the country in support like hon. members to recollect that the <>f the bill, or even vote for the bill-I made positililn I took up, as can be seen in all my no such promise. I was absolutely free speeches, was this : that we could not ex and unfettered, and, as Mr. Barton ad pect to have all our own way, that if we did mitted when he asked me at the conven concede equal representation we must try tion table whether I could fight the bill to get into the constitution some principle with him through the country, as he would which w·oulcl give the whole population 36 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. some sort of power over the working of he ventured to speak in favour of it. :M:r. the federal parliament. I conceded the Barton described it as he would describe wrong principle of equal representation, a fossil dug up from some prehistoric because I felt that there was no prospect burial-ground, and it is news to hear that of federation without it. But it was to be :M:r. Barton only wanted a little support accompanied by the national referendum to change his views on the referendum. or by the joint sitting of the two houses. Mr. J. C. '\VATSON : Why did he not Now, when I knew, and that division vote with :M:r. Lyne when he had the showed that in that convention there was chance7 no chance of a national referendum, the The Right Hon. G. H. REID : That is a voting being 36 to 10 against it, and there question they must settle under the flag. being a proposal before the convention by Now, what I wish to point out is that finding Sir George Turner that there should be the referendum principle was hopeless, as two referendums-a national referendum everyone knows it was in that convention, and a state referendum-that struck me because all the representatives in the smaller as the most monstrous principle evet· states were fighting against it, the next known. What a farce to take a national move on the part of the liberals who wanted referendum when a referendum of the to secure as much power for the people as states could destroy the expression of the possible was the project of a joint sitting, national will. I fought against the prin and it was not a project that I took up by ciple tooth and nail, Sir George Turner intrigue in the lobbies, for if hon. mem fighting for it tooth and nail. Next a bers will refer to my published address to move was made in favour of a joint sitting. the electors of New flouth Wales before I Any man of ordinary sense who desires to was elected, they will see that I pointed be fair will see that if you cannot get pre out that a three-fifths majority of a joint cisely the thing you believe in, if you are a sitting of the two houses was, perhaps, sensible man you will go as near as you can to one of the best ways of getting over the it in some other way, and finding the refer difficulty. Therefore, I was on no new endum hopeless in that convention of fifty, line when I was endeavouring to secure and I admit also believing that a joint the insertion of a joint sitting provision sitting, with a simple majority, might be in the bill, and then the only form in even better ; and thinking of the enor which we could get it was in the form of mous area of Australia over which the re a three-fifths majority. ·well, we got it in ferendum would have to be applied, I did the bill. That was the first advantage. alll could to minimise the demands of men Mr. J. C. 'N ATSON : The bon. and who were in the majority and had the power learned gentleman is accused of having to put in what they liked. I did no in voted against a simple majorit.y in the triguing against the referendum,. because joint sitting ! we know, and the bon. member knows, The Right Ron. G. H. REID: That is when he talks of intriguing about the re perfectly correct. But I am going to ferendum, no one knows better that there explain how it occurred. never was the slightest chance of a national Mr. NoRTON: referendum being carried in that conven The Right Ron. G. H. REID: When tion. the hon. member gets a little more parlia Mr. LYNE : I believe there was m mentary experience he will find that there Sydney, if you had supported it_! are many ways of putting a false issue The Right Hon. G. H. REID: Does before you which you will not vote upon the hon. member know that the leader of -be a child upon. I will show what a the convention was dead against it 1 false issue was put before us. Sir George Mr. LYNE : No. He made a speech Turner was against the joint sitting, and here at that table which showed that he intimated his intention to oppose it at would have voted for it if propetly sup every stage, and he then endeavoured to ported by the right bon. member. shipwreck the joint sitting proposal by The Right Ron. G. H. REID: Well, voting in a certain direction. Mt·. Car this is one of the most wonderful things ! ruthers got up in the convention, and hi!! In Adelaide Mr. Barton nearly pulverised speech will explain why he voted as he the Victorian Attorney-General because did, and why I voted as I did. The speech [ Tlte Right lion. G. II. Reid. Governor's Speech: (21 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 37 will be found at page 972 of the proceed South Wales could possibly believe in the ings of the Sydney Convention. Mr. Car artificial distinction of a three-fifths ma ruthers said : jority 1 I did not vote for that; it was a The Premier of Victoria expressed a desire to cross, snatch vote. destroy the proposal by any means whatever, Mr. CRICK : It was in the bill, and the and he has taken this means of doing it. Let hon. and learned member voted for the that be understood. It is of no use quibbling about words now. bill! The Right Ron. G. H. REID: I come Remember, Mr. Carruthers was the author now to the point which has been so in of the amendment for a joint sitting. cessantly levelled against me as to why I Mr. O'SULLIVAN: Oh! voted for the bill. The Right Ron. G. H. REID : Mr. Mr. CmcK: That is what we want to Carruthers moved it, and I had advocated know! it in my address to the electors. The Right Ron. G. H. REID: It is a It is of no use quibbling about words now. There are those who are in favour of the pro· very fair question to ask, and the hon. mem posal against the -would-be wreckers. With that ber might have expected that when I came made clear, we might all vote now in favour of to that point I would deal with it. So far I the proposal for the retention of three-fifths. have dealt with the history of my connection If we had not voted for that, and there with federation. I have shown that in had been a cross vote, Sir George Turner 1891 I laid down certain objections to the might have carried his national and dual bill of that year. I now wish to point out referendum. Mr. Carruthers pointed out that those objections have been recognised what the object was, and warned the mem to a certain extent in the bill of 1898. I bers of the convention against voting in a was ridiculed by a number of the ardent cross way, as the effect would be to nega federalists of 18()1 for raising objections tive the provision ; but in no sense, at no to the bill of that year. Bu~, as the wheel time, did either Mr. Carruthers or myself of history has rolled on, that bill has been accept that solution as a final and satis materially improved in the very directions factory settlement of the difficulty. in regard to which I complained. In the :M:r. J. C. vV ATSON : first place, even with the three-fifths ma The Right Ron. G. H. REID : No. I£ jority, it is better than having no provi we had voted with Sir George Turner, who sion at all; in the next place we have got was against the whole project of a joint an elective senate, and in the third place sitting, we would have played into his the senate can be dissolved, which is a hands and destroyed the joint sitting. In great matter. You know the difference Melbourne the matter never came up. between a house sitting above and being Mr. MoORE : Did not Mr. Higgins move above dissolution, and a house that can be an amendment the effect of which would sent to its constituents at the same time have been to reduce it to a simple majority, as the popular chamber. If we had a and the hon. and learned member voted little of that here, we \Vould get on much for it 1 better. The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I am Mr. CRICK: The hon. and learned mem sure I must have done. ber was going to do that! Mr. NORTON : Half the time the hon. The Right Hon. G. H. REID: So I and learned member did not know where will, but you forced this other contract on he was! me. I was going to say that this bill is a The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I ·am great improvement on the bill of 1891, not built that way. At that convention but at the same time I have had to point I was using my best endeavours to put out to the people of this country the dan- ' the bill in as liberal a form as I could ; gers of this bill. I admit that if I had but it was impossible to get all I wanted. studied my own personal interests it would The simple majority proposed by Mr. have been infinitely better for me to have Higgins was scouted in the convention. come straight out against the bill. Mr. MOORE : And the hon. and learned Mr. CRICK : Why did not the hon. and member voted for it ! learned member do it 1 The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I am The Right Ron. G. H. REID : I will sure I did, for what representative of New tell the hon. gentleman. I considered 38 Got·ernor' s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. then, and I consider now, that my personal Mr. CmcK : That is the way the hon. vote is a thing that absolutely belongs to member humbugs the people! myself-that I have an absolute right to The RightHon. G. H. REID: There wa,; do with it what I like, so long as I no concealment. I told the people how I honestly and straightforwardly tell the was going to vote, and the people can cleat people how I am going to vote; and I am with me at the election time; and they have fJUite prepared to take all the blame in the judged for themselves. But I will say one position of exercising my own right to vote thing about the people. The man who gets as I like. But, whilst I could do what I up and pretends that he is always right, liked with my own vote, and whilst I knew and has never made a mistake, that is the that I was putting myself at issue with the man tho people do not believe in. great majority of those upon whom the 1\Ir. CmcK :. They do not belieYo in the strength of the Go\·ernment and the party hon. member l depends, I felt that I would take all those The Right Hon. G. H. REID: \Ve will risks for this reason: I felt it might have see. They can see my course of action been wrong, but, in spite of all my criti plain before them. cisms and denunciations of parts of the JHr. Cmcrc : Like a make's track ! bill, I felt that I was peculiarly identified The Hight IIon .. G. H. REID: I think with the whole movement and with the these allusions are quite wide of thE> mark. bill. I felt that I ought to give the bill a As to what I did with my vote, I say it chance of being considered fully. was my vote, and I could do what I liked Mr. CmcK : That is why the hon. mem with it. That is my plain talk about ber shut Parliament up l that; and I did what I liked with it. But The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Well, it there is one other thing that is more im was a good thing. portant to the people of this country, and Mr. CRICK : It was not ! it is a thing that will be 'presented very The Right lion. G. H. REID : I think clearly to their minds in a very few days. it was. The people will be called upon to judge J'llr. CRICK : A good thing for your between those who went round advocating Ministrv l the bill as a just bill, as a bill which ought The lligLt Hon. G. H. REID: Well, to be accepted, as the only bill under which here we are before Pariiament now, and we could have federation---tho:;e people we have an issue on which we can be put who went round the cou_ntry with that out. I want to point out, first of all, that attempt to drive the electors into voting it was my own vote; secondly, that I did for the bill-you have to square a much not conceal from the public how· I was bigger account wit.h them than with me ; going to vote ; and, thirdly, I felt, as the and my reason is this: that, as a represen man who had been connected with that tative of the people, whilst I could do what movement and had practically brought it I liked with my own, I would indeed have into life, that I should give it a show; been entitled to a vote of unanimous coii because I knew that if I took up a hostile demnation at the hands of the House if attitude the bill was clead. I had gone round the country singing the Jli[r. CRICK : Does the hon. gentleman praises of this bill, and f'ndeavouring tG think he is so important 1 Does he think frighten the people out of the exercise of he is a God Almighty 1 their honest judgment. I die! not take The Right Hon. G. H. REID: My that cour3e. I endeavoured to deal fairly enemies told me so ; they told me that with the bill. ·whether I dealt fairly with that I would kill the bill. it or not, there is one thing the people Mr. AsHTON : I wish the hon. gentleman know-that I did not try to dP-ceive them had not stated that he would vote for it; as to its defects as affecting New South they would then never have got 70,000 vVales; and having gene to the country, votes! and having fearlessly put my finger upon Tho Right Ron. G. H. REID : Then, the blots of the bill before the electors were fancy, if I had gone roun~ the country in called upon to exercise their franchise, my old style-wherewould they have been 1 there is no man in this country to-day who Now, I gave you a good run for your can say that I endeavoured to lure him money. into voting for the bill. ['!'he Rigl~t Hon. G. H. Reid. Governor's Speech : (21 JUNE, 1898.] . Address in Reply. 39 Mr. WooD: Did the hon. member put three colonies the balance, or al.Jout the financial proposals before the country £350,000. Then I went on to say : in his speech at the Town H n.l '! I want to point out what that means in connec. The Right Hon. G. H. REID : [ think tion with the federation which collects un The Right Hon. G. H. REID : I did contended together, I think I can promise state the taxation as I estimated it at that on behalf of this party-that if fortunes time. It is very different when you get change, and defeat comes upon us, we will fuller information. We had a finance com cheerfully recognise his honest title to the mittee appointed as the campaign went on, government of tlhis country. That is not and I think the finance committee's figures the programme. Can it be possible that came out very near to mine. 'Vhether that I know more about the hon. member's was so or not, do not hon. members see friends than he does himself 7 It is impos that I put clearly even at that t.ime one sible. It ought to be impossible; but of the serious objections in the case of this whether that be the programme or not, country to the financial provisions of that the people of this country will not put bill-that shewouldget back from £800,000 tltemselves in such a position that the men to £1,000,000 more than she wanted, and who take up the flag of federation will as I pointed out, you did not get that, but come into Parliament and put it under the the Colonial Treasurec got it 7 I think I seat, and then hoist the flag of protection. have fully gone over the ground of chal That has happened once in the public life lenge on which the hon. member for The of this country. It will not happen again. Hume has said that I and this Govern Then J add this : That if there is to be a ment are not fit to be trusted with this choice between men who are to be trusted federal cause. As against the assertion of throughout the great and difficult enter the bon. gentleman I can point t9 the fact prise of compelling some concessions from that this Government has played a leading gentlemen who have shown their obdur part in Australia in restoring the question acy, amounting to a pitch of desperation, that had fallen into the dust from the against any altemtion, if the people of this hands of its former champion-lifting country are going to commit their fortunes the question to the position of a real and destiny to the hands of any man, it is national issue brought home to the whole more likely to be in the hands of a man of the people of Australia. In consequence who negotiates and fights for his own of the course we have adopted, the federal colony rather than a man who has all the movement has received a mighty impetus, strings in the other colonies. - I am astonished to find how readily h~ can it gone to the country would have dealt a evoke cheers from this House by the death blow to democracy and liberalism paltry and flimsy argument with which he in Australia for all time. Therefore, the · has endeavoured to justify his position. I question for us to consider is how comes believe that, taking him all in all, the it about that the right bon. gentleman Premier is as good a liberal and democrat who could bring such a crushing indict as most men, but he is bitten by the bug ment, such an unanswerable indictment of jealousy. I believe that when he knew against the Commonwealth Bill as we that it was his plain duty to go straight heard him deliver in the Town Hall to against this bill, he had not the moral thelargestmeeting probably ever held there, courage to do it. But, seeing the bon. an indictment elaborated and clinched, so member, Mr. Barton, elevated to a pro to speak, by subsequent speechesatBathurst, minent position as leader of the conven at Goulburn, and at Newcastle-by what tion, he said to himself-not openly, mind, sudden revelation came he to find out these for he dared not say it openly-" I will ham defects in a bill to which only a few days string him, even at the risk of damaging before he had, in the convention, given his the movement." adhesion 1 The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Will the Mr. AsHTON : He discovered the defects hon. member allow me to say this on the of the bill in his Town Hall speech ! point of his imputation of jealousy. So Mr. NORTON: Yes; and I want to fat· from jealousy having actuated me in know by what divine process of revelation this respect, I was the one at the confer -I should have thought that a divine ence of premiers in Adelaide, the night revelation would have come to the Colo before the convention met, to suggest that nial Secretary rather than to the Premier 1\Ir. Barton should take charge of the bill -by what sudden process or divine reve in the convention, as I felt that as I had lation he discovered these defects in a bill opposed it so bitterly in 1891, it would in the formulation of which he had been place me in a false position to do so. Mr. one of the prime movers 1 Let us look at Barton's position in the convention was the right hon. gentleman's past federal due to the premiers' meeting the night history. He has invited it, and I do not before, when we unanimously agreed that shrink from it. It is a strange thing that he Ehould be placed there. As the most I, "John English," standing here to-night distinguished federalist in Australia, as as John Norton, have dealt with the right the representative of New South vYales hon. gentleman upon this very question in who had received such an enormous num a pamphlet entitled-perhaps not too re bet· of votes, I proposed that Mr. Barton spectfully, and if I had to write it again should be made leader of the convention; I might give it another title, but at that feeling that I, having attacked the bill so time there was no sense of responsibility much, should not be put into that position. upon me-entitled "Reid the vVriggler." Mr. CmcK : I submit that this is not a The right bon. gentleman has recognised personal explanation ! it himself, has he not, and recognised the Mr. NORTON : I am quite willing truth of it. upon such an important matter to tolerate Mr. J. c. vV ATSON : The bon. member this somewhat prolonged explanation, and cribbed the title ! I trust that as it has been so long it will Mr. NORTON : I do not say that it be the last. was original. John Holland christened Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: The bon. member had the Premier at the Prot~stant Hall amid better be careful, or he will haYe a second the uproarious shouts of an approving edition! audience. Mr. NORTON : The House with its The Right Ron. G. H. REID; They were knowledge of the right bon. gentleman • laughing at the physical impos<>ibility of it ! can appraise his explanation at its true Mr. NORTON : In that pamphlet I worth; I accept it in all sincerity, of pointed out that at that time, at the very course. But I have to come to this ques period to which the right hon. member tion : Here was the Premier of the colony has referred to-night, a period to which I assisting in the convention in the promul should think in his present high position, gation of a measure which I say now had with a full sense of responsibility upon 42 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. him, I should have thought he would have culled from the hod, they will find that I been ashamed to refer, he acted as the am not misusing it. Let them go to their arch-enemy of federation, with the present \Vorcester or to their Webster. Attorney-General. If ever a man has re Mr. J. C. \V ATSOX : Perhaps the hon. gistered a public vow against a public member inadvertently used the word in its measure or movement, that man is John correct sense ! · Henry \V ant in his declared war and un Mr. NORTON: No. It is one of my alterable opposition to federation. If the political pretensions to be a federationist. Attorney-General is not as sincere an op I do not see that in view of the few argu ponent of federation to-night as he was ments which I intend to put before the when left-hand ally of Sir John Robertson House, my sincerity must compel me to in supporting the right hon. gentleman in march behind the right bon. member in attacking the future of federation in 1891, this movement. I decline to do so, and I he is a public liar, and I llo not believe claim the indulgence of the House while I that he is that. say what I have to say on the suhject. Mr. AsHTOX : Is the hon. member in An lioN. MEMBER: favour of federation ~ Mr. NORTON : Well, if I do not get Mr. NORTON: In answer to that in it I will ask 1\it'. Speaker to com pel it terruption-- from hon. members, and I do not think I ::Yir. AsnTO~{: It is a fair question! shall have to do that. I do not wish t& Mr. NORTON : In answer to the ques import here the prejudices with which my tion of the hon. member, I am prepared outside career as a journD.list may have to say that ardent federationist as I claim loaded me. I do not wish to come into to be-and I am just as ardent as the hon. personal conflict with any individual in member for Hay, just as ardent as any the House, and I was very sorry to-night member of the labour party, who chooses that anything I might hanl said in a half to support him now, just as ardent as J'vlt-. jocular way should have evoked from the Speaker, whose ardour in the cause of hon. member for \Vilcannia what I consider federation was vonched for by never giving a most impolite and ungenerous remark. a speech before or after the convention Mr. DACEY: Is this a climb down·? upon the subject, so sure was he that the Mr. NORTON: Well, the !Jon. mem public knev>' the soundness of his federal ber will be climbed over properly pre views----;-notwithstanding my ardour as a Sf'ntly. There are some hon. members federationist, the sincerity of my federal whose interruptions I can tolerate; I views does not, I submit, compel me to plead, nay I demand, to be protected from march to whatever federal tune the Pre an intellectual bomhardment of a Dacey mier may choose to strike up at any par from Botany. I have not come here to ticular moment to suit hi;; own particular set the place alight. I have not come here purpose. with any profession ether than that of Mr. AsHTON: The hon. member spoke doing my duty feal'icssly as a public man, from the same platform as the Attorney and if any man can bring against me nny General! bombastic reference with regard to my in _Mr. NORTON: I did, and as I said on tentions in coming into this Chamber I that platform I would make an aliiance will stand condemned and silent. with the devil and speak with him if he Jl.fr. BLACK: The hon. member made a could speak English against that particular few to-night! bill. If I have to name my choice between :Mr. NORTON: I think the hon. mem Mr. Barton and the Premier I do not hesi ber forGipps Division ought to have special tate to s:1y-and I suppose that if I am to feelings of delicacy which should induce have tha esteem of hon. gentlemen I must him to refrain from coming into confEct establish my sincerity when I address this • with me. I merely made the remarks to House-l am not ashamed to say that, which the hon. member refers in a half sincare federationist as I pretend to be-- jocular way to the hon. member for vVick HoN. ME}IBERS : " Pretend !" ham, who perfectly understood them in Mr. NORTON: If hon. members look that sense. at the dictionary meaning of the word, and ?\Ir. BLACK: And to the hon. memlJer if their knowledge has nat been altogether for Lang Division 1 [Mr. Norton. Governor's Speech : [21 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 43 Mr. NORTON: To the hon. member if the history of the hon. gentleman's ad for Lang Division also. ministration of the Lands Department is Mr. BLACK : If the hon. member did not looked closely into, e3pecially in regard to mean what he said, of course, I withdraw these exchanges, it will be found-and I the words! speak with the knowledge of a man who Mr. NORTON: I am glad to hear it. has a peculiar and intirna~e knowledge of But these interruptions seem altogether these exchanges-that they have invari uncalled for. If we are to be called to ably been against the interests of the account for every little interjection thrown people and distinctly in the interests of across the House we shall ba,·e to put on the squatter a:1d banking instituti01is. while chokers and go to Sunday school Then, furthermore, we hear about the set with Mr. Brunker. There are several rea tlement which has been b;·ought about. sons why I cannot accept the leadership Surely it does not need an ordinary mind oi the right hon. gentleman, simply because to discover that the mere growth of popu his Cabinet is made up of men who, as re lation n1ust promote settlement. How gards the majorit.y of them, are not to, be much additional settlement, I should like trusted witll the great departments of the to know, is dne to the hon. member's mea state. Now I do not wish to be·personal, sures? I say that we have destroyed the but here I wish to deal with the Secretary credit of the settlers on the soil. We have for Lands once and for all without any taken away from them the posdbility of personal references whatever. I have to borrowing money to keep themselves on point out that while in this particular the soil. How is it; p~ssible that poor speech to which this reply has been drafted, men without capital can go on the soil and great credit is taken for the administration remain there if it is impossible for them of the public lands, I am here to say that to raise anything on the credit of their under the operation of exchanges this holdings 7 That is one of the chief achieve country has been deliberately robbed with ments for which the Secretary for Lands the connivance, open, and I believe-if I claims credit, and the right bon. gentle am out of order I am willing to bow to man, if he would corsult cou11try members the ruling of the Chair-with the corrupt as I have done upon this part-icular matter, connivance of the hen. member, the Sec will find out that there are thousands of retary for Lands. settlers at the present time in a state of Mr. SPEAKER: The han. member is out semi-starvation and clestitt:tion, owing to of order in making a charge of that kind. the very fact that the Secretary for Lauds No such charge can be made against a has been an instrument in preventing them minister except on a substantive motion. from raising capital on the credit of their It is not in order in a debate of this kind holdings. to make such a charge. Mr. J. C. \VATSON: That is absolute 1\Ir. NORTON : Then I certainly with rot. I represent a country constituency, draw it; but I may say, if not in justifi and I know that that is false. The hon. cation, at all events in palliation of the member does not know what be is talking remark, that I publicly charged the hon. about! member with this, and fought out the issue .Mr. NORTON: The hon. member will at Armidale, where the jury could not have an opportunity to answer me and to agree. Perhaps that may be regarded as show the falsity of the statement, if it be some little palliation for what I have said. false. If it does not apply to the hon. But I would point out with regard to the member's electorate, I congratulate him exchanges of land which the hen. gentle most heartily, but I would respectfully call man has sanctioned that with one single his attention to meetings of destitute selec exception they ha,-e been in favour of the tors which have been held in the north big squatter and the :financial institution. west, at Moree and other places. Let me That was plainly brought out at the trial appeal to the hon. member for Moree and in Armidale, and so deeply was it impressed to others. upon the minds of the jury that they could Mr. HASSALL : Hear, hear ! not possibly agree that there was any libel, Mr. NORTON : Let those hon. mem in spite of the other heinous charges which bers say whether it is not a fact that hun I brought against the hon. member. Now, dreds of theit· constituents are in a state Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. of semi-starvation, directly due to the take the Secretary for Public W orks-I action of the Secretary for Lands in de am addressing these remarks specially to priving them of all possibility of raising the so-called labour party-- anything on the credit of their holdings. Mr. J. 0. WATSON : Thank you ! Now, the hon. member for Young, adroit, Mr. NORTON : Permit me, sir, to say adaptable, and sta~esmanlike as he is-ex that I am in accord with a great many compositor, too, as he is-may know a things the labour party advocates, but I great deal more about the settlers upon cannot understand this persistent support the soil than do men like the hon. member of a ministry that is so persistently harass for Moree. I am not quoting myself as ing the poorer classes both in land legis an authority. I am appealing to these lation and in the Post Office. Take also hon. members. . the Minister of Justice. Will this labour Mr. HASSALL: Let the Secretary for party, to whom I appeal now, say that in Lands put up 100,000 acres for settle the case of Thomas Suffield justice has been ment leases, and 100,000 acres for condi done1 tional purchase and conditional lease, and Mr. J. C. WATSON : Mr. R. E. O'Connor see which land will go first ! refused to release him ! Mr. NORTON : I am not speaking on Mr. NORTON: I admit that he did, my own authority. I prefer to take the and I say it is an atrocious outrage upon word of hon. members who speak of these the administration of justice. matters on behalf of their constituents. 1\fr. AsHTON : And I say that, in my Mr. J. C. WATSON : We know which judgment, lJOth ministers are right! land the dummy will go for. Why did the Mr. NORTON : The hon. member for hon. member not expose the dummying Hay is, of course, omniscient, if he likes to transactions out in the north-west 1 think himself so. Whatever the majority Mr. NORTON : I do not know why of this House may think, whatever may we should have these savage and persistent be the opinion of the hon. member for Hay, interruptions on the part of the hon. mem the opinion of the majority of impartial ber for Young. He has not much more people outside is that justice has not been interest in Young. He is clone there ; in done in the case of Thomas Suffield. If, Young he has gone "bung." instead of the cold-blooded Minister of Justice, the warm-blooded Right Hon. the Mr. J. 0. WATSON : You will find that Premier, had looked into this matter per your little nominee will be knocked out! sonally, and had made it a matter of Mr. NORTON: Mr. R. E. O'Connor is humanity to go outside the strict limits of not a very big man beside the hon. mem his own office, I thoroughly believe he ber; but he is quite big enough to settle would have released Thomaq Suffield his small political carcase. long before this. There is a great element Mr. J. 0. vVATSON : He will go under of humanity in connection with this case on this occasion, anyhow ! which we ought to consider, and it is this : Mr. NORTON : Again, here we have This Government are prepared to release -apart from this question of federation- him if he will petition, and yet so surely, the Postmaster-General. The dismissals as I take it, is this man innocent, that he that have taken place in the Post Office prefers to serve out the full term of his have been something cruel and callous. sentence than to throw a suspicion of guilt Men who have grown up in the service of upon himself more deeply than it is at the the state, who "have been kept at a parti present time, by petitioning for that cular employment for which, of course, liberty which he could have for the asking. their present age unfitted them, are sud I say that a more peculiar case was never denly set adrift withou~ compensation, before the world. and without any recognition of their past Mr. CRICK : Did not the Minister send services. No fault is alleged against them, a special messenger to ask if he would none whatever. They have simply grown petition 1 up from boyhood to manhood, and have Mr. NORTON: He sent a special mes incurred the responsibilities of manhood, senger to him. and because they have done so they are An HoN. MEMBER : The hon. member to be cast ruthlessly on the world. Then for W aratah ! [.Mr. Norton. Governor's Speech: [21 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 45 Mr. NORTON: I do not know whether a missiOn, and the labour party will find or not it was the bon. member for W ara that their separate mission as a labour tah. If he undertook the task he under party will be burst up at the next general took a humane task ; he undertooK an election. honorable task. I do not know whether Mr. FERGUSON : They told us that be- that was tlie hon. gentleman; but I know fore! · that some person was sent, and the person Mr. NORTON: We have not told you who was sent vouched for the fact that it without truth, and you know it. You Thomas Suffield refused to petition for his have been in irksome bondage. When T1·uth liberty, because he knew he was innocent, first supported you, you went into the and for fear that by so petitioning he House with a majority of 31 or 32 ; but would cause those who believed in his where is that majority now 7 innocence to think him guilty. What are Mr. FERGUSON : Gone over to the other we to think of an bon. member who says, side! "If you choose to petition for your liberty, Mr. NORTON: Younumberonlyfifteen we will give it to you, and if you will not to-day, discredited, disgraced, and discom petition for your liberty, and thus acknow fited; and I tell yon now that if you do ledge yourself guilty, although you declare not join one side or other in this House yourself innocent, we will keep you in you will disappear sooner or later like snow gaol" 7 I ask is it fair of the labour party, under the blazing sun. You do not suppose under those conditions, to continue to sup that democracy is going to tolerate for ever port a ministry that contains a minister of the little despotism that you have set up,_ justice of the calibre I have described 7 to march from one side of the House to Then take the Secretary for Public Works. the other, and say ""\V e will support this He brings the minimum wage into our Ministry while pretending to defend the public departments; but no sooner does interests of the working-classes ; we will he want to erect a house for himself on decide in caucus without rhyme or reason the mountain than he gets it done by to support this particular Ministry." Why? contract. I know it is not a heinous The reason is not because you approve of offence : I am only bringing it home to the Ministry, not so much that you ap the party with whom I hope to work and prove of the measures championed by the vote in the next Parliament in many im right hon. gentleman, but because you are portant matters. But where is the con not strong enough to stand alone. You sistency of this Ministry-where is the have not been able to evolve a leader. proof of it 7 You, who claim to be the An HoN. MEliiBER: Nor have you! special guardians of the working man, who want the special patronage of nobody ; Mr. NORTON : There is the man who you who claim to be the labour party, who in more senses than one has taken you in. suspend a member in your caucus because He has· taken you into the fold, and you he does not choose to come to heel at the cannot get out. crack of the whip; you who pretend by the Mr. J. C. WATSON : We will not be will of the people to be here as protectors taken in a second time by you, anyhow ! of the working-class interests, where do Mr. NORTON: A wonderful party t you find consistency in this Ministry Where are your men of promise now~ where do you find a devotion to the inter Mr. J. C. WATSON : Might I suggest ests of the working-classes 7 through you, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. Mr. CANN : Where do you find .it any member who is new to the forms of the where7 House, that his remarks might be addressed Mr. NORTON : Where you find incon to yourself and not quite so much in the sistency it is your duty to punish it if you second person to the members of the labour feel that it is to the detriment of your party! constituents. Mr. CRicK : I rise to order. Mr. CANN : The hon. member has a Mr. SPEAKER : Order. Mr. 'Natson is beautiful contract on band ! addressing the Chair. Mr. NORTON : Do not make any mis Mr. CRICK : The bon. member has only take. I am under no delusion as to the the right to address you, sir, on a point of contract I have on hand. I am a man with order whilst another member is speaking. 46 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. He asked permission to make a remark ; Mr. MACDONALD : I am not aware that he asked permission to say something I ever had any conversation with yon ! through yo'J, sir, to the hon. member. Mr. NORTON: Oh, had you noM The Mr. J. 0. WATSON : I merely wish to hon. member might have been walking in draw attention to the fact that :M:r. his sleep. I divulge no confidences. There Norton-- is another reason why I refuse to follow the Mr. NoR'l'ON: The hon. member fol' right hon. member, and why I should pre Fitzroy Division, please ! fer to follow Mr. Barton if he came into I 1\Ir. J. 0. \V ATSO"N: The hon. membee the public life of the country-hut do from his non-acquaintance with. the forms not see that Mr. Barton enters into the of the House was addressing hon. members discussion at present. Mr. Barton is not on the cross-benches instead of addressing here; he is not before the country; he has the House through 1\Ir. Speaker. not promulgated his programme. I like to hear the puerile interjections of the Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member's re hon. member for Young, sneering and scof marks should be addressed through the fing at the mention of the name of a man Speaker to the House. I do not think like Mr. Barton, the hon. member, being that any section of the House should be a mere political fly blown· in here by acci addressed in particular. dent; nobody noticed his coming, nobody 1\Ir. NORTON: .As one not conversa,nt will notice his going. If the hon. mem with tbe forms of the House, and not hav ber has done no good he has not done ing the statesmanlike instincts of the hon. much harm, and when he disappears the member for Young, who is so soon to dis world will be none the worse and none the appear from our public life, and who seems wiser for his having been here. already to be suffering from the hysterics Mr. J. 0. vV ATSO"N : Many noticed the of an approaching dissolution-not having hon. member's coming, but nobody will these ad mntages, I claim the indulgence notice his going ! of the House, and I will proceed to address Mr. NORTON : All I can say is, that the House. I was only endeavouring to I do not wish to bandy words with the formulate in my feeble way certain reasons hon. member for Young, who I do really why a certain section of this House, who think by these continuous inter:jections, this claim a monopoly of patriotism and public running fire of interruption, is arrogating morc1.lity, ha\·e not been consistent in sup to himself a prominence in the House porting the present Ministry, and would which his political achievements scarcely not be consistent if they continued to do warrant. Another reason why I support so. I refuse to believe that Providence this motion of cen:sure is this : the Premier designed that the destinies of this country has not dealt fairly with the country. Like should be consigned to the hands of a cabinet some sort of tinpot Cromwell, he shut up such as the right hon. gentleman, skilful Parliament at a time when I contend it cabinet-maker as he is, has succeeded in was highlyessentialthatParliament should knocking togflther. He lms only got the have had the help of the Lon. member for traitorous old pieces of the Parkes cabinet. Young in discussing this great problem of He put them in their places and they stick federation. I consider that the approach there. They have to do what he tells thein. of the national referendum on the question Mr. :MACDONALD: That is the hon. mem of federation was a time when Parliament ber's trouble! should have been kept open, when the 1\Ir. NORTON: It does not trouble elected of the people should have had an you. As long as he keeps you in your opportunity of discussing the question, of place you are all right. instructing the electors, of giving them An HoN. M E)IBER : You do not blame the ad vantage of their views, such as them! they were. It is all very well to sneer Mr. NORTON: I do blame them. So at Parliament, and to say that their views do you blame them ; and if the shackles of are not worth listening to, but surely the caucus had not been on you I am sure, if they are worth paying at the rate of if I am not very much deceived by my £300 a year to do the service of the people {)Onversations with you, you would have we should have had the advanta.ge of had them out of office long ago. listening to their views on the high state (Mr. Norton. Governor's Speech: (21 JUNE, 1898.] .Address in Reply. 47 problem of federation just prior to the Mr. NORTON: No, I do not make such time when an appeal was to be made to arrogant claims as the bon. member makes the country on that particular matter. for himself. I am pointing out that the This is a mm,t. unwarrantable way to act initial error was made in conceding in the with the Parliament of the country, and I enabling bill minority rule on a terri think that the power of proroguing l)arlia torial basis, and if I misrepresent the hon. ment should be. limited bv statute if this member by stating that he voted for it I sort of thing is to go on. ·If the Premier am glad that I am mistaken, and with has a servile majority such as he has behind draw the remark ; but if the Government him at the present time, he can deal with persisted in going to the country for the Parliament as he likes-shut it up for an election of delegates under an enabling indefinite period-and surely that is not bill of that character, there was a plain the sort of parliamentary system that we duty cast on every democrat in this House, are prepared to tolerate in this country. namely, to fight tooth and nail against it, lHt·. CHICK : It cannot be shut up for an for thence arose all the trouble. "When indefinite period, for we must be here in the convention the right hon. gentle once a year to vote their pay ! man conceded the principle of minority 1\lr. NORTON : I th!nk that is all it representation, and I cannot see how he will come to if things go on like this. can palliate or explain away these facts. There are many other reasons th'Lt I could He conceded one-third more representation give for supporting this vote of censurE', to 500,000 people in W estralia, Tasmania, but my chief reason is the attitude of the and South Australia, than was to be given Premier upon the question of federation. under the bill to 2,500,000 people in New Now, look at it carefully and calmly. South \Vales and Victoria. What were the proposals that he supported Mr. AsHTON : Could there have been a in the conYention 7 It does not matter convention in any other way 1 what he says here. It does not matter Mr. NORTON: Never mind that. Is what he suddenly determined upon saying the hon. member a special pleader for the at the Centennial Hall, or at Bathurst, Government, or is he not~ What do these Goulburn, or Newcastle. That matters interruptions mean 1 The hon. member's not a jot.. vVhat we are concerned in is, interruption had no relevancy or pertin what did he vote for and support in the ance, when you recollect that the Premier conYention ~ That is the main question we stands here to-night ad vacating, as one of have to consider, and when you find that his amendments, the proportional repre he supported proposals in the convention sentation of the states in the senate. That -voted for them, instigated some of them, is what I wish to point out. If he advo and then voted for the bill as a whole, it cates it here to·night, why did he sanction is upon that you must mainly rest your the other form of representation in the judgment. Now, what did he vote for? convention 7 He voted, first of all, to sap the very basis Mr. AsHTON: I will endeavour to tell" of democratic rule in this country; and the hon. member later on ! the labour party condoned his fault. They Mr. NORTON : I want to know if it started by recognising in the enabling is permitted to the most versatile politician bill minority rule on a territorial basis. to one ·week advocate minorit-y rule, and Mr. J. C. \VATSON : We voted against the next week come and say, "I have been that, I rather imagine ! wrong," anJ to advocate majority rnle '? I Mr. NORTON: If you voted against it take it we.look to the right hon. gentle you maintained the Government in office man for leadership in this matter. If he who carried it against you. had taken up a stand fer maintaining Mr. J. c. vVATSON: The hon. member's majority rule at the very commencement, people carried it too ! he would have had the labour party-if I Mr. NORTON: My people carried it may mention it-behind him; he would too ! I do not know to whom the hen. have had the protectionist party behind member is alluding as my people. him. And why should be not have taken 1\'Ir. J. C. \V ATSON : The party the hon. up that attitude 7 vVhat is it that compels member is associated with. He is not a him now to take it np that did not compel party himself, is he~ him to take it up then 7 Is it because he 48 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. finds that the people are averse to that lie Works Act, he is going to provide which he advocated in the convention 1 £1,300,000 to render the superannuation But is there to be no punishment 1 Are fund solvent. He tells them that he is public men to go on for ever tergiversat going to give them graduated pay and ing and changing 7 Is there never to be promotion. But it is too late, the time any penalty imposed on men for their has gone for that. The civil servants will shortcomings and deceptions of the people 1 no longer trust him any ·more than the Allow me to quote here from a little people will trust him on the question of pamphlet of mine an observation by the late federation. l\fr. Gladstone in his autobiography. This The Right Hon. G. H. REID : They quotation which 1 used against the right hon. will have the increases all the same! gentleman in February, 1895, is still more Mr. BuLL: The hon. member said, pertinent against him to-night. It is this : "Public Works Act," he meant the Public Changes which are sudden and precipitate Service Act ! changes accompanied with a light and con Mr. YouNG : "Puulic \Vorks Act" will temptuous repudiation of the former self do as well! changes which are systematically timed and tuned to the interest of personal advancement Mr. NORTON: The astute and won changes which are hurried, slurred O\·er, or derful and revered ex-Speaker, that clever denied-for these changes, and such as these, I gentleman who created so many prece have not a word to say ; and if they can be justly dents for this honorable House-- that charged upon me, I can no longer desire that any portion, however small, of the concerns or in gentleman, who so dignified the honorable terests of my countrymen should be lodged in position occupied by our present Speaker, my hands. remarks that the Public vVorks Act would These words apply with peculiar force to the do as well. I suppose his part in the ad right hon. gentleman to-night. A few weeks ministration of the Pnulic \Yorks Act con ago he would ha,-e passed any of these sists in stamping with an india-rubber atrocious provisions in this so-called liberal stamp every document put. before him by constitution. Now he comes here suddenly his under-secretary. That is all he knows to-night repudiating his former attitude, of the administration of his department. turning his back upon himself- meta If he is not a better administrator of that phorically turnin'g himself inside out-and department, and more original than he was claims a continuance of the confidence of in vending potatoes, or administering the this House, and boldly tells us he still law of this House, then all I can say is retains the confidence of the country. I that there are some wonderful disclosures believe he has strained the confidence of awaiting this country. There is one thing the country to breaking pitch. I do not that I have demanded at every one of my honestly believe, whatever views the coun public meetings with regard to this Public try may have on federation as a whole, Service Act. I do not believe that one that the majority of electors will, at the half of the members of this House know next general election, accept the right that the particular section to wl1ich I am hon. gentleman as the federal leader. If about to refer is in the act. Now what do he comes down into my electorate, which you think of a public service act deliberately is by no means an unrepresentative elec passed to shift from the shoulders of Parlia torate of Sydney-it contains all sections ment the high and onerous duty of reform of the community-if-he comes down there ing the civil service~ Every one admitted and formulates his views, he will hear that the service was over-manned, and that what they think of him. vYe have not had many were over-paid; but what a cowardly an opportunity of hearing him in the King subterfuge was this act which shunted the Division yet, and I should be very glad to duty from Parliament on to a little tinpot be present at his meeting when he goes to board set up by this act ! address the electors there at other than a The Right Hon. G. H. REID : Every smoke concert, because smoke concerts, ad public service is under a board of that sort! mission to which are by ticket, are hardly Mr.NORTON:Yes. Doestherighthon. _representative. Furthermore, we find that member say that every board is placed above the bon. gentleman proposes' to reform the the law, and made absolutely irresponsible? civil service. He tells the civil servants Is every public board given a position such that now, after full experience of the Pub- as our Public Service Board is given under [ Mr. Norton. Governor's Speech: (21 JUNE 1898.] Address in Reply. 49 sub-section viii of section 5, under which no Surely, the House is not going to be so person can bring a suit or action at law recreant to its trust as to say that this against the commissioners, no matter what fund having, through maladministration, may have been their conduct, no matter become insolvent, those who paid into it whether it may have been injustice done for years and have left the service are not wilfully or unwittingly against any public at least to get back their contributions, servant? No matter if they have been with interest added 1 I believe that the corrupt or not, no action can be brought time is fast coming when the deeds of this against any of them. Presuming that we Government with regard to the civil ser were amending our Judicature Act, do you vice will recoil upon their heads, and, if I mean to say that we would place our have the honor of a seat in the next Par judges abRolutely above the law? I appeal ment, I Rhall not give my vote to any go to the right bon. gentleman whethPr he has vernment, protectionist or free - trade, considered that particular section. Let federationist or anti-fcderationist, who will him look at it if he does not know it is not undertake to immediately amend the there. I can hardly believe that he does act in this direction. It is a blot upon know it is there. I can scarcely imagine the act which should be removed, and that such a section could be passed in a with so many champions of liberty, of liberal parliament-at any rate, in a full democracy, and of fair play to the work house. It mu~t have been passed in ing cla"ses-amongst whom, I preRume, the small hours of the morning. That is are included at leaRt a large num her of the onl.v way in which I can suppose such the civil servants-! am a~tounded that a wretcherl law could be paRsed, making such a blot has been allowed to remain it impoRsihle for the most outrageously upon our statute-book so long. Coming wronged civil s<>rvant to have any rerlress once more to the queRtion of fedPration, against the members of the boarcl. There among the other things that the PrPmier it stands to-day, an infamous monument voted for, and which he now repudiates, of the infamy of tl10se who dared to pa~s was this particular three-fifths majority, it; and this is called a free parliament ! the kernel, so to speak, of the deadlock That is the way we reform the civil ser position! As a matter of fact-I do not vice. Now, when the civil servants have think I am miRinformed-it was the right suffered under 1hese ab_solute powers, what bon. member who prompted the SPcretary do we find 1 The Premier is as prolific as for Lands to P.ither suggest or to move this ever in promises. He is as profuse of pro particular provision. How is it that he mises as he has ever been throughout the has so suddenly found out now that it is whole of his career, with the deliberate not feasihle 7 It must havP occurred to him purpose of winning back the support of thEm, as it bas occurred to him since, that, those outraged civil servants. It is all under the deadlock provisions in the hill, very well for hon. members, comfortably majority rule could not have been assured, seated here, with £6 a week ; but they do and the interests of New South WalE's not know what is going on in the civil could not have been guaranteed, for the servicE'. I can tell them, being, as T am, simple reason that to get a three-fifths ma a journalist who receives hundreds of com jority three assumptions must be fulfilled. plaints a week, from different sources. I In the first place, the whole of the Vic have received hundreds of complaints from torian delegates must be in our favour civil servants, who have been outrage that is the greatest assumption. The ously treated under the vast powE'rs en assumption is tlmt when majority rule is trusted totheseirresponsiblecommissioners. at stak(l, and when the interests of New Furthermore, with regard to the making South Wales are at stake, the Victorian of the superannuation fund solvent, what representatives will all be upon our side. provision is to be made for those who were Not only could we not count upon having paying into the fund and who were dis the support of all the delegates from Vic missed from the service with bare gratui toria-because their past treatment of us ties, or without compensation at all 1 Is proves them to be absolutely selfish and no provision to be made for them 1 Can hostile-their border duties, their pecu the thing be taken in hand and dealt with liarlyprotectivetariff, their stock-tax, their properly without giving justice to them 7 attempt to stop the Peninsular and Oriental D 50 Governor's Speecl~ : [ASSEMBLY.] Add!ress in Reply. steamers from going beyond Melbourne, that the Premier was not bound to accept and other outrageous acts of hostility to it. He was bound not to accept it. The wards us show that unless we have our in very fact that the whole of the Cabinet terests safeguarded under the constitution was split up and divided on this question we can never count upon the friendly con shows how recklessly they have dealt with currence of Victoria. Yet we have the it. They came to no common understand Premier supporting the three-fifths majority ing upon it. I say it was the duty of the provision ! Not only would that require right bon. gentleman, as the leader of the the whole of the Victorian delegates to Government, to come to a common under vote upon our side, but also the whole of standing with his colleagues. He had no the New South ·wales delegates to vote right to go to the Convention with a pig together, ancl you could not count upon in a poke. He had a right to come to the whole of them doing that. Who are an understanding with them, and if they those who tell us that the New South were not in accord with him on thiR great vVales representatives would vote as a solid question of federation, then he had a body_ upon behalf of New South Wales 1 right to quit them, or they should have It is a monstrous assumption. quitted him. ·with regard to the question Mr. MooRE : If our representatives at of federation, and the right of the Premier the convention had done so we should not to lead the country upon it, I say it is im have had such a bill as the present one possible for him to have my support, for submitted to us ! the reasons I have given. It is impossible Mr. NORTON: Yes, that was a steong for him to have the support of the liberals proof of what we can expect. vVhat is the throughout the country. Whatever may district of Riverina but a Victorian pro be his intentions at the present time, vince~ It was Rettled from Victori!l ; whether they be sincere or not, the fact Victorian newspapers circulate there. It remains that the Premier has failed us is not the Sydney Morning Herald, or the once ll.t the convention. He had not the Daily Telegraph from which they take courage and the consistency which marked their politics. It is only the Sydney Truth the conduct of Mr. Barton. Hon. mem and the Bulletin that circulate there. The bers may tell me that the Premier is very people there take their politics from Mel adroit and very clever in holding a ma· bourne. jority together; but those things have their Mr. MACDONALD : It- was that vote that limits with the public. The public will gave the majority for the bill ! not stand that sort of statesmanship for Mr. NORTON : Certainly. The people ever, and now the time has come when we there take their politics from Melbourne, shall soon be going to the country. Only and the Age, the Argus, the Leader, and last night I did not hesitate to tell my con the Australasian are the newspapers which stituents that if the choice came between circulate there. The Ri verina squattages Mr. Barton and Mr. Reid, I wonld not were taken up and have been held by hesitate to give my support to Mr. Barton. Victorians; Riverina has been settled by I will not follow the right hon. member. the sons of Victorian farmers; and when Mr. FERGUSON : What did they say 1 Victorian interests clashed with those of Mr. NORTON: The hon. member can New South \Vales, you would in nine cases come down and hear them next time. I out of ten find the Riverina delegates have given good reasons for my unwilling voting with Victoria. And yet the Pre ness to follow the Premier. I do not say mier, with that fact staring him in the that I am called upon under any circum face, comes and tells us that it is possible stances to follow him ; but I believe the to safeguard the interests of majority rule issue will be before us at the general elec in New South Wales with this three-fifths tion, and that is why I have gone at some majority. length-perhaps unduly-into my reaRons The Right Hon. G. H. REID : It was for not following him. But I could go into not because I liked it; but it was the best other reasons for not supporting this par I could get into the bill at the Convention! ticular Ministry. I believe that it is with Mr. NORTON: But I am showing that out parallel in the history of decent British the proposition was so unworkable in institutions, that after what occurred at securing the interests of New South Wales Armidale between myself and a,n bon. [Mr. Norton. Governor's Speech: [21 JUNE, 1898.] ·.Address in Reply. 51 member whom I have since publicly Mr. NoRTON: It has always been toler branded as a liar in the public press of the ated here. I have sat in the gallery and country-and there it is on record against heard it done repeatedly. him since the trial at Armidale -- Mr. ORICK : I could refer offhand to one 1\fr. SPEAKER : Order. The bon. mem or two cases ! ber is not justified in using language of Mr. SPEAKER : When I called the bon. that character. member for Fitzroy Division to order I Mr. NORTON : I do not wish to dis heard him using some strong language. I pute your ruling, Mr. Speaker. \Viii you was engaged in t~lking to the hon. member permit me to point out that I am merely for Hay, and I did not follow the hon. referring to a newspaper in which certain member in all he was saying. What I things have been said about the hon. understood was that · he was making a member.· , direct charge against the Secretary for 1\fr. SPEAKER : Is not that exactly the Lands, and I had in my mind the rule laid same thing ? Supposing these things are down in "May" on page 263, which says: stated in a newspaper, would the hon. Certain matters cannot be debated, save upon member be jnstified in coming here and a substantive motion which can be dealt with either quoting them or reading them as an by amendment, or by the distinct vote of the House, such as the conduct of the Sovereign, attack upon the hon. member 7 Most cer the heir to the throne, the Viceroy and Governor tainly not. If the hon. member desires to General of India, the Lord-Lieutenant of Ire make a charge against a minister his duty land, the Speaker, the Chairman of Ways and is to do so by a substantive motion, and Means, members of either house of Parliament, and judges of the superior courts of the United not to indulge in langnage of the .kind Kingiom, including persons liolding the position just used. I think it unjustifiable. of a judge such as a judge in a court of bank Mr. ORICK : I should like to remind ruptcy and of a county court. you, 1\fr. Speaker, that there is a motion I do not say that the general conduct of a of censure on the Government, and I minister cannot be debated. I think it think the bon. member is perfectly justi can be debated, and acts of maladminis fied in drawing attention to the fact that tration or improper administration may be grave public charges have been made brought under the notice of the House ; against a member of that Government. but I do not think it is justifiable for a mem I will not refer to this particular charge ber to go into any details of these questions. now ; but later on I wish to say some Mr. NORTON: I thank you, sir, for thing in regard to it. The leader of the your ruling. I do not intend to transgress Opposition has moved a motion of censure it. I only wished to indicate the lines along on the Government. which I intended to travel very briefly. Mr. NORTON : And that is one of my One of my reasons for suppqrting this reasons for supporting it! motion of censure, and for refusing to give Mr. ORICK : Supposing a charge has my confidence to the Government is be been made outside against one of the mem cause, though it includes such a ,respect bers of the Administration, and that able and highly respected man as Mr. charge has not been satisfactorily answered, Brunker, it contains the Secretary for is it to be argued that we cannot refer to Lands, Mr. Carruthers, whom I regard as it 1 I submit that your decision is a hurried a disgrace to this House. one, and I trust you will not adhere to it, Mr. J ESSEP : Others do not, though ! because later on when I speak I wish to Mr. NORTON : No, I do not suppose refer very strongly to another matter. the bon. member does. Again, it seems to me that yonr decision Mr. S~EAKER : That is very strong lan is not in accordance with one particular guage,and I think very offensive language ruling of your own, to which I can refer. to use of a member of this House. Suppose a member of the Ministry had Mr. NORTON: Well, sir, I will say stood his trial for something, and the jury that he is no credit to the Ministry, and disagreed about it, and he was still at the as I have given, in peril of my liberty in beck and call of the Attorney-General to a court of law, facts in regard to not only be put on trial again, is it to be argued his public career but also his private life, that on a vote of censure of the Government for doing which in the public press he we cannot refer to that~ tried-- 52 Governor· s Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply. Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK : Leave the Mr. CRICK : There is not one as bad as man's private life alone! Want! Mr. NORTON: I am not going into Mr. NORTON : Well, but perhaps Mr. details. I said "facts also in regard to his Want's crimes may be confined to Japan, private life." I am not going to touch that and that makes a difference. I intend to phase of the question. I think I know have my say, and this within the full what is due to the feelings of the bon. mem limits which Mr. Speaker has given me. ber and to the feelings of other hon. mem Remember the three weeks' ordeal that I bers who are listening to me. passed in Armidale. What for 1 For fight Mr. ANDERSON: The bon. member seems ing in my humble way in defence of the to have very little respect for them, then ! public estate, for doing my duty. Every Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK: It is just as man wlw relieves his mind of partisanship, well to know that the bon. member's pri looking at the matter impartially, forget vate life may not stand inspection ! ting what I have done in other directions, Mr. NORTON : I am not saying any will say that I rendered a signal public thing about that. I am confining myself, service when I stopped him in his mad and I am entitled, I think, to a little lati career of exchange, apart from anything tude if I confine myself within the ruling else. How was I brought to book 1 At of Mr. Speaker, considering what I have the so-called festive time of Christmas I been subjected to by this individual here. was brought to trial under a special com I am prepared to compare my private life, mission. They could not wait for the such as it is, with his, and I shall come ordinary process of law. I hope the Prime more favourably, bad as I am, out of the Minister will listen to me. I consider that comparison. I have told him all that I be outraged every principle of justice when thought about him. I am not going to he adopted this Scroggs' and Jeffreys' style dig that up ; I proved before a jury that of trying me. He might have let me spend be was robbing the public estate, perhaps my Christmas at home with my wife and not in his own individual interest directly, child. · What was the reason for hurrying but in the interest of friends with whom on my trial ~ It was so that this model of he went on shooting parties, and in the virtue could get married again. interests of financial institutions. For Mr. CARRUTHERS : I appeal to you, Mr. days and days we went into the evidence, Speaker, to keep this bon. member within he with all the Land Office behind him, the rules of order. I do not want to break he with the whole detective force behind the rules of order of this House, though him, he with money and influence behind I am sorely tempted to do so. I appeal to him. I alone, fighting him single-handed, you, sir, for my own protection. dragged him down from his high pedestal Mr. SPEAKER : I think I must stop these and laid him in the dust, from which he remarks. May says : shall not rise again until be makes amends The imputation of bad motives or motives to the public for the wrong he has done. different from those acknowledged; misrepre senting the language of another or accusing him An RoN. ME~IBER: He will rise pre in his turn of misrepresentation ; charging him sently! with falsehood or deceit ; or contemptuous or Mr. NORTON : He rose at the federal insulting language of any kind,-all these are election, did he not, beautifully, and you unparliamentary and call for prompt interference. will see what sort of a rise he will get at I do not think that any squabble that the the next general election, with a lot of hon. member may have had-- parsons on his platform who approve of Mr. NORTON : Squabble, Mr. Speaker~ his career in every respect. These are the Mr. SPEAKER: The bon. member should reasons briefly stated why I refuse to fol not interrupt me. I do not think it is a low the right bon. gentleman, much as I matter which ought to be the subject of admire him-and I do admire him in a debate here. I must ask the bon. mem great many respects. But what, I ask, ber to refrain from further discussion of it. are those people who support the Ministry Mr. NORTON: With all respect, I because men like Mr. Brunker and Mr. trust that you w!ll bear with me when I Gould are in it ; what are they to think ask you whether my trial and the peculiar of that same Ministry that contains a Mr. method in which it was conducted are not Carruthers 1 matters that I can discuss if I can prove [Mr. Norton. Gove1·nor's Speech: [21 JUNE, 1898.] Address in Reply. 53 that it was irregular, and that it was done Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member said so. for the purpose of political spite-if I can The hon. member may think he did not; prove that to the House and on that ground but I heard him. The bon. member said alone justify my support of the motion ~ If that the judge did certain things in the I can show, Mr. Speaker, that, with the expectation of promotion. No baser charge sanction of the Ministry, my liberty was could be made against a judge than that. jeopardised by an irregular process of law, Mr. NORTON: With respect, I say am I not entitled to endeavour to prove that I said nothing of the sort, and I did it~ That is what I ask you, Mr. Speaker, not intend to say it. What I intended to to rule on. say, and will endeavour to say now, keep Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is en ing within your ruling, was that the men titled to do that, but not to make charges who gave this irregular commission to against another hon. member_whilst doing Judge Back house to try me were the men it. from whom the judge had to expect pro Mr. NORTON: ·what I wish to draw motion, and that being so, they should attention to is that District Court Judge have been Yery careful whom they ap Backhouse was given a sort of Judge pointed. I was entitled to trial by a J e:ffreys' or Scroggs' commission to go to regular Supreme Court judge, who had Armidale to try me. \Vas that done with nothing to expect from political patronage. the right hon. gentleman's sanction~ Of I am quite willing to concede that Judge course it was. It could not have been done Backhouse would not be swayed by any without consultation in Cabinet, surely~ prospect of promotion at the hands of Further, it is to be borne in mind that when those who appointed him. that was done these lovers of liberty, these The Right Hon. G. H. REID : There i~ great democrats, the champions of the not a fairer man on either bench l people, uttered not a word-raised no pro Mr. NORTON : I say that what the test against it. Why, I would have filled Government did then was calculated to the columns of my paper in protesting in prejudice the administration of justice. their behalf whatever their opinions may If it only left a suspicion on my mind that have been, whatever they may have said I was not getting a fair trial that was of me, but not one of them protested in sufficient to condemn the course pursued. my behalf. They merely said, "A good If it gave me, the prisoner at the bar, a job, too, if he got into gaol" ; but that is qualm, a consCiousness that I might not not the point. It was the process that get a fair trial, for the very reason that was resorted to. The methods of the the judge for the successful performance Stuarts, the methods of Scroggs and Judge of his commission in getting me convicted Jeffreys were revived-what for~ In might expect promotion at the hands of order that this model minister might take the Govern_ment, that would be sufficient a marital holiday; and it must be borne to condemn his appointment as my judge. in mind that the man who was given the .And then all the resources of the police special commission to try me was a man ex were placed at the disposal of the immacu pecting promotion from the very men-- late Secretary for Lands. Detectives were Mr. SPEAKER : Now, the hon. member journeying to and fro night and day, and is making charges against a judge, and I had to fight this great question of lands those are certainly charges which the hon. administration, apart from the other pri member cannot prove, and ought not to vate issues involved, single-handed; and make. The hon. member ought not to make I say that the conduct of the Ministry such charges against a judge in debate. on that particular occasion, its general Mr. NORTON: With great respect I conduct in the administration of justice, submit that you have misapprehended me. its conduct in the matter of Thomas I have made no charges against a judge. Suffield, its conduct in regard to the toler I had it distinctly in my mind that I could ance of the vagaries, the continuous and per not do such a thing. sistent and outrageous vagaries, of Judge Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member said Docker on the bench is sufficient to condemn that the judge did certain things in the it in public estimation, and to cause the expectation of promotion. public to lose confidence in this Ministry, Mr. NoRTON: No; I beg your pardon! if only on the ground of maladministra- E Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY. J Adjournment. tion of the Department of Justice. All police against me, and appoint a special the~e things are not to be forgotten. These commission to try me! \Vhy, the idea is things are a good index of the character of infamous ! It would never be tolerated in the men. So long as they keep their places England, and that it could be tolerated here by the help of a servile majority th.at seems and condoned proves that this l\Iinistry can to be all they care for; but I appeal to commit almost any crime against the consti every man here who does me the honor of tutional calendar.· In conclusion I have to listening to me-and, perhaps, I have de ·say that--though, perhaps, ineffectually and tained them too long, but they will pardon somewhat disjointedly-! have given very me in this, my maiden effort-and I say good reasons indeed wny I, at least, will not that the administration of justice is a mat follow the leadership of the right hon. gen ter which should be peculiarly the care of tleman on federation or any other question. Parliament, and a more gross outrage on I believe that to a very large extent we · the due administration of justice than was are indulging in a farce. This Parliament perpetrated in that particular case against was shut up until the eleventh hour, so to me on my trial at Armidale has never been speak, and no doubt we are going through perpetrated since the period of Scroggs and a farce in discussing what is virtually a J etfreys, and that is no exaggeration in my want of confidence motion. I regard it as case. I admit that I am often in a certain a farce ; and the really serious business direction an offender against the law, and will come on when the House goes to the probably that tends to deprive me of sym country. I hope I shall not be considered pathy in this particular matter; but., be offensive when I say that I am happy in lieve me, I am not bringing it forward on the belief that this Government, no matter personal grounds. I am bringing it for what it may possess in this House, does. ward on public grounds, and as a justifi not possess the confidence of a majority of cation of my support of the vote of censure the people outside ; and I am, further, on the Ministry. If you allow the admin happy in the belief that a great many of istration of justice to be tampered with in the large-minded statesmen whom I see this manner, if in order to secure a col before me will not come back to support league in his seat, in order to hush up :J, this Government, even if it should secure public scandal in connection with a min a majority. Their places will be filled by ister's private character, in order to hush wisP-r and better men. up a scandal in connection with the admin Motion (by 1\'Ir. MILLEN) agreed to: istration of a great department like the That the debate be now adjourned. Lands Department, involving the interests Motion (by the Right Hon. G. H. REIDJ of the real backbone of the country, the agreed to : settlers on the soil-if you allow the ad That the resumption of the debate be an ordee ministration of justice to be tampered with of the day for to·morrow, and take precedence in such a way then all true liberty is at of all other business. an end, in spite of the democratic declama tions we may indulge in on the hustings DENTISTS BILL. or in this House. I say for that alone l\Iessage received from the Legislative appointing a special commission to try a Council, requesting that the proceedings political opponent-this Ministry should on this bill should be resumed at the stage be hunted out of office. I do not expect to at which they were interrupted by the pro throw the Ministry out upon that particu rogation of Parliament last session. lar ground. I am quite content if I arouse Motion (by the Right Hon. G. H. REIDJ the vigilance of'hon. members in this mat agreed to: ter. My object will have been achieved That the request of the Legislative Council be if I simply succeed in causing hon. mem complied with. bers to keep a keener eye upon the ad ministration of justice in the future. Why, ADJOURN~IENT. it is not to be tolerated that because I CIVIL SERVA:XTS A:1'1D POLITIC'S-A~IEl>lDJiE.NT OF dare to attack a man in the administration THE LIBEL LAW. of his office, the whole of the Cabinet, as Motion (by the Right Hon. G. H. REm) was done in this particular instance, should proposed: put the resources of the law and of the That this House do now adjourn. [Mr. Norton. Adjournment. [21 JUNE, 1898.] Adjournment. 55 Mr. WILLIS (The Barwon) [10·59]: I allowed. Several other instances have oc was precluded this afternoon from asking curred during the past few weeks which a question, and I should like to ask one have brought the iniquity of our libel law now. I should like to know on what prominently before the public, and per authority the civil servants, not the highly sonally I have had to go through the mill paid ones, are precluded from taking part myself. We find that a lot of feather in this great federal movement 7 less frauds and characterless charlatans The Right Hon. G. H. REID : That ques are able without giving any guarantee for tion can stand over ! costs to bring the proprietors of news Mr. WILLIS: It can stand over; but papers before the court and to give them if you allow some of the highly-paid civil a considerable amount of trouble and ex servants this privilege, you should also give pense through no fault of their own. At it to civil servants who are not highly paid. the present time if a plaintiff enters an Mr. CmuK : How do we know that the action for alleged libel and wins his case, Premier will not shut the place against us and the defendant declines to pay costs or to-morrow 7 damages, the plaintiff can land the defend The Right Hon. G. H. REID: I want ant in gaol; but if a characterless indi some money from you ! vidual brings an action against a news Mr. CRICK (West Macquarie) [11·21: paper proprietor and loses the case, the Before I sit down I want a promise from newspaper proprietor cannot compel him the Premier that he will not shut up the to pay costs, and has no remedy. In one House before I have a chance of speaking of the cases to which I have referred, the upon the address in reply. Chief Justice said that they had to take The Right Hon. G. H. RJCID : I do not the law as they found it, and that it was think it is necessary to ask that. I think to the legislature that they must look for that we shall be here for at least a fortnight! any amendment thai might be meditated. Mr. CRICK : Well, I will take the Pre I think it is incumbent upon the present mier's word this time ; but I am doubtful Government to take steps to redeem the about it. promise which they have made a consider Mr. J. C. L. FITZPATRICK(Rylstone) able number of times, and to bring about [11·3]: I should like to draw the attention an amendment of the law. of the ~iinistry again to the fact that it Mr. PRICE(Gloucester)[11·4]: I should' is necessary that some amendment should like to ask the Chief Secretary if be will be made in our libel law. This matter has be good enough to cause to be laid upon been brought before them On several occa the table of this House the papers in con sions. I have spoken about it several nection with the Jervis. Bay land matter. times, and the promise has been made that An RoN. MEMBER : The timber con some amendment of the law would be cession! effected. Reference has recently been Mr. PRICE : Yes. It may be neces made in the law courts by the judges them sary to refer to the matter in the debate selves to the necessity for bringing our upon the address in reply, and an oppor libel law into line with the English law tunity should be given to hon. members to on the subject. Notwithstanding all our peruse the papers on the subject. democratic professions we find our libel Mr. O'SULLIVAN (Queanbeyan) [11·5]: law in a disgraceful and barbarous condi I desire, in.reference to the matter brought· tion. During the past few weeks libel under the notice of the House by the hon. actions have been brought against two member for Rylstone, to direct attention Sydney newspapers, the Evening News and to the fact that a promise was deliLer the Daily Telegraph. Though in the old ately given by the Attorney-General to country the winning of such actions by the bring in a bill to amend the law of ;ibel. plaintiffs could not have inflicted any That promise has not been kept., and if penalty upon the publishers of the news therefore, the hon. member desires to see papers concerned, here one of the defen the law amended, his best course is to vote dants was mulcted in damages to the ex to turn the present Government out of tent of a farthing, costs being allowed, office, and to put another government in. while in the other case damages were fixed Question resolYed in the affirmative. at a small amoun,t, b':lt no costs were House adjourned at II·7 p.m.