House of Commons Northern Ireland Affairs Committee
Education in Northern Ireland
First Report of Session 2005–06
Report, together with formal minutes, oral and written evidence
Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 1 February 2006
HC 726 Published on 9 February 2006 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £17.50
The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee
The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Northern Ireland Office (but excluding individual cases and advice given by the Crown Solicitor); and other matters within the responsibilities of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (but excluding the expenditure, administration and policy of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, Northern Ireland and the drafting of legislation by the Office of the Legislative Counsel).
Current membership Sir Patrick Cormack, MP (Conservative, South Staffordshire) (Chairman) Mr David Anderson, MP (Labour, Blaydon) Gordon Banks, MP (Labour, Ochil and South Perthshire) Mr Gregory Campbell, MP (Democratic Unionist Party, East Londonderry) Rosie Cooper, MP (Labour, West Lancashire) Mr Christopher Fraser, MP (Conservative, South West Norfolk) Mr John Grogan, MP (Labour, Selby) Mr Stephen Hepburn, MP (Labour, Jarrow) Lady Hermon, MP (Ulster Unionist Party, North Down) Meg Hillier, MP (Labour/Co-op, Hackney South and Shoreditch) Dr Alasdair McDonnell, MP (SDLP, Belfast South) Stephen Pound, MP (Labour, Ealing North) Sammy Wilson, MP (Democratic Unionist Party, East Antrim)
Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk.
Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at: www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/northern_ireland_affairs.cfm
Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Mr James Rhys (Clerk), Hugh Farren (Attached Second Clerk), Dr Aileen O’Neill (Committee Specialist), Paul Derrett (Committee Assistant), Julia Kalogerides (Secretary), Laura Kibby (Media Officer), Jim Lawford (Senior Office Clerk).
Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 2172/3; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]
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Contents
Report Page
Education in Northern Ireland 3
Formal minutes 5
Witnesses 8
List of written evidence 9
List of unprinted written evidence 10
Reports form the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee this Session (2005-06) 11
3
Education in Northern Ireland
1. Secondary education in Northern Ireland is based largely on a selective system with pupils attending grammar schools or secondary schools according to their academic ability. Some two-thirds of pupils opt to take the Transfer Test (known as the 11 Plus) based on written examinations in English, mathematics and, more recently, science. A lengthy Review of Post-Primary Education arrangements in Northern Ireland began in 1998 when the Government commissioned research which concluded that, while the current selective education system had significant strengths, there were also serious weaknesses that needed to be addressed.1
2. On the eve of the suspension of the Northern Ireland Assembly in October 2002, the then Minister for Education in Northern Ireland announced that the Transfer Test would come to an end. The Assembly was not able to discuss this and has not met since.
3. In January 2004 following review and consultation the then Minister for Education, Jane Kennedy, MP, announced the ending of academic selection with the last transfer tests to be held in autumn 2008. Thereafter admissions to post-primary schools will be based on parent and pupil choice and in the case of a school being oversubscribed, selection will take place on the basis of the admissions criteria outlined by the Minister.2
4. The Committee was approached by a group of Grammar School Principals, supported by the Governing Bodies Association, Concerned Parents for Education, and the Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations, who said that their voices had not been adequately heard in the debate on the proposed changes to post- primary education in Northern Ireland. The Committee agreed unanimously to meet the group while at the same time recognising that it should also meet groups representing other views on the future of post-primary education.
5. The Committee visited Northern Ireland on 28-29 November 2005 when it took evidence from the Grammar Schools’ Group, the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools, a group of Controlled Secondary School Principals, and representatives of East Belfast and Greater Shankill Partnerships. The Committee visited two schools in Belfast, Belfast Royal Academy and St Gabriel’s College, and went to Londonderry and visited Thornhill College and Lisneal College. The Committee received a number of written submissions and also subsequently took evidence from the Minister for Education, Angela Smith, MP. We have printed this evidence.
1 The Effects of the Selective System of Secondary Education in Northern Ireland, Tony Gallagher & Alan Smith, Queen’s University Belfast and University of Ulster, September 2000 2 New Post-Primary Arrangements: A Statement by Angela Smith, MP, Minister for Education, December 2005 (Page 7) “Some popular schools will continue to have more applications than places are available. As now, schools will use admissions criteria to determine who will be admitted. There will be a menu of criteria for schools to choose from. The menu will provide schools with some flexibility to take account of different circumstances, for example, schools and pupils in towns and cities, and schools and pupils in rural areas. The main elements of the menu will be: • Siblings currently at the school and eldest child; • a range of community/geographical criteria - feeder primary schools, parish, child-centred catchment and school- centred catchment; and • tie-breakers - to be used only where other criteria are not capable of allocating places to remaining applicants. Random selection or measured distance from the school will both be included in the menu.”
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6. We are grateful to all those who helped us with this work, including those who provided written or oral evidence. We are particularly grateful to the principals, staff, parents, pupils and governors of the schools that we visited for their warm welcome.
7. On 6 December 2005 the Minister issued a statement setting out the Government’s vision for new post-primary arrangements and published for consultation a Proposal for a draft Education (Northern Ireland) Order.
8. It is clear from the evidence that we received, written and oral, formal and informal, that there are people in both communities who feel strongly on both sides of the argument about academic selection. Whilst it would not be appropriate at this late stage in the decision-making process to become involved in the debate about the ending of academic selection, we believe it is important that, in the period before the restoration of the Assembly, the Minister takes careful account of all the views that have been expressed to us so forcefully. In her evidence, the Minister stressed that, while much debate had centred on the question of academic selection, the proposals went much wider and have “the potential to give enormous benefits to Northern Ireland”3. In noting this, the Committee's primary concern is to ensure that any changes enhance the quality of education in Northern Ireland, enabling each and every pupil to benefit from the best possible education.
9. In relation to the development of the Pupil Profile, which will be used to assist parents and pupils in choosing the appropriate post primary school, we welcome the Minister's recognition of the need for rigour and robustness and the potential role for computer adaptive testing. The Minister indicated that the use of computer assessment tools had been incorporated into pupil profiles saying: “Computer adaptive tests can give very valid and reliable outcomes and I think they help prove the consistency of teacher assessment”.4
10. The Committee is keenly aware that education is a formerly devolved responsibility and we hope that there will be scope for detailed supervision of the implementation of the changes by a restored Assembly. In this context, we note the Government’s desire to restore devolution during 2006. It is essential that, both before and after the restoration of devolution, the people of Northern Ireland are given every legitimate opportunity to express their concerns. We therefore encourage all interested parties to take every opportunity to participate in the present consultation process.
11. We draw the concerns expressed in the written and oral evidence we have received to the attention of the Government and we give notice that we may return to this subject. At this stage we propose no further hearings, but we urge that opportunity be provided for the order to be debated on the floor of the House.
3 Q 266 4 Q 204
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Formal minutes
Wednesday 1 February 2006
Members present:
Sir Patrick Cormack, in the Chair
Mr David Anderson Mr Stephen Hepburn Mr Gregory Campbell Meg Hillier Rosie Cooper Dr Alasdair McDonnell Mr Christopher Fraser Stephen Pound Mr John Grogan Sammy Wilson
The Committee deliberated.
Draft Report (Education in Northern Ireland), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, that the Chairman’s draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 7 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 8 read.
Question put, That the paragraph be read a second time.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 7 Noes, 2
Mr David Anderson Mr Gregory Campbell Rosie Cooper Sammy Wilson Mr Christopher Fraser Mr John Grogan Mr Stephen Hepburn Meg Hillier Stephen Pound
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 9 and 10 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 11 read.
Amendment proposed, to delete paragraph 11, and insert the following new paragraph, “The committee is aware that education is a formerly devolved responsibility and that the government has expressed its desire to restore devolution during 2006. It would be our
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hope that the scope of education changes should be determined by the restored Assembly. We encourage the government to delay the presentation of the Education Order to Parliament while devolution discussions are ongoing and to put in place interim arrangements for transfer to post primary education if that is deemed necessary. In the meantime in preparation for the decisions which will be required under the Education Order we encourage all interested parties to take the opportunity to have their say in the present consultation on the order.”(Sammy Wilson.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 7
Mr Gregory Campbell Mr David Anderson Mr Christopher Fraser Rosie Cooper Sammy Wilson Mr John Grogan Mr Stephen Hepburn Meg Hillier Dr Alasdair McDonnell Stephen Pound
Another Amendment proposed, in line 4, at the end, to add “and we would also urge that the Government have regard to the progress being made in talks on devolution in deciding the timing of such a debate.”(Mr Gregory Campbell.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 7
Mr Gregory Campbell Mr David Anderson Mr Christopher Fraser Rosie Cooper Sammy Wilson Mr John Grogan Mr Stephen Hepburn Meg Hillier Dr Alasdair McDonnell Stephen Pound
Question put, That the paragraph be read a second time.
7
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 7 Noes, 3
Mr David Anderson Mr Gregory Campbell Rosie Cooper Mr Christopher Fraser Mr John Grogan Sammy Wilson Mr Stephen Hepburn Meg Hillier Dr Alasdair McDonnell Stephen Pound
Paragraph agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That the Appendices to the Report be reported to the House.(The Chairman.)
[Adjourned till a date and time to be announced by the Chairman.
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Witnesses
Monday 28 November 2005
(Morning session)
The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings, Stormont, Belfast
Mr William Young, Headmaster, Belfast Royal Academy Ev 1 Mr Peter Cosgrove, Concerned Parents for Education Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations Mr Finbar McCallion, Governing Bodies Association Dr Hugh Morrison, The Queen’s University, Belfast Mr Donal Flanagan, Chief Executive Ev 12 Mr Jim Clarke, Deputy Chief Executive Ms Margaret Martin, Principal, St Catherine’s College, Armagh
(Afternoon session)
Ms Maggie Andrews and Mr Sammy Douglas, East Belfast Partnership Ev 24 Mr Jackie Redpath, Greater Shankill Partnership Mr John McVicar, Greater Shankill Community Council Mr Norman Uprichard, Former Principal, Newtownbreda High School Ev 30 Mr Jim Keith, Principal Belfast Boys Model Mr Uel McCrea, Priancipal, Ballyclare Secondary School
Wednesday 14 December 2005
Angela E Smith, a Member of the House, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland Office Ev 37 Mr David Woods, Head of Post Primary Support Team, Department of Education for Northern Ireland Ms Jacqui McLaughlin, Post Primary Support Team, Department of Education for Northern Ireland
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List of written evidence
1 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association (November 2005) Ev 53 2 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association (13 December 2005) Ev 57 3 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association (20 December 2005) Ev 61 4 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association (10 January 2006) Ev 65 5 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association (18 January 2006) Ev 68 6 Council of Catholic Maintained Schools Ev 68 7 Saint Catherine’s College, Armagh (12 December 2005) Ev 70 8 Saint Catherine’s College, Armagh(23 January 2006) Ev 70 9 East Belfast Partnership and Greater Shankill Partnership Ev 71 10 Mr J Keith, Mr S A McCrea and Mr N J Uprichard Ev 76 11 Angela Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland Office Ev 78 12 Angela Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland Office (16 January 2005) Ev 90 13 Belfast Royal Academy Ev 97 14 Concerned Parents for Education Ev 97 15 St Louis Grammar School Ev 98 16 Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations Ev 98 17 Bangor Grammar School Ev 99 18 The Royal School, Dungannon Ev 99 19 Foyle and Londonderry College Ev 100 20 Collegiate Grammar School Ev 101 21 Down High School Ev 101 22 Concerned Parents for Education, Parental Alliance for choice in Education and Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Association Ev 102 23 Mr Ian S Corry, Consultant Orthopeadic Surgeon Ev 104 24 The Down Area Parents’ Group Ev 105 25 The Down Area Parents’ Group (29 November 2005) Ev 109 26 Dr and Mrs I G Snounou Ev 111 27 Rainey Endowed School Ev 112 28 Letter from the Chairman of the Committee to Mrs Margaret Martin Ev 114 29 Thornhill College Ev 114 30 Brian Gibson Ev 115 31 Niall McCafferty Ev 116 32 Foyle and Londonderry College (16 December 2005) Ev 116
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List of unprinted written evidence
Additional papers have been received from the following and have been reported to the House but to save printing costs they have not been printed and copies have been placed in the House of Commons library where they may be inspected by members. Other copies are in the Record Office, House of Lords and are available to the public for inspection. Requests for inspection should be addressed to the Record Office, House of Lords, London
1 Council of Catholic Maintained Schools, appendices to written evidence 2 Robert McCartney QC MLA 3 Association of Head Teachers in Secondary schools 4 Angela Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland Office, Appendices to written evidence 5 Campaign against selection 6 Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association, appendices to written evidence 7 Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education 8 Sullivan Upper School 9 Rockport College 10 Belfast Old Instonians Association 11 Parental Alliance for Choice in Education 12 Irish National Teachers’ Organisation
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Reports form the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee this Session (2005-06)
The following reports have been produced by the Committee since the start of the 2005 Parliament.
First Special Report The Work of the Committee in 2004: Government Response to the Committee’s Fourth Report of Session 2004-05 (HC 393)
Second Special Report The Functions of the Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland: Responses by the Government and the Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland to the Committee’s Fifth Report of Session 2004-05 (HC 394)
Third Special Report The Parades Commission and Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1998: Government Response to the Committee’s Second Report of Session 2004-05 (HC 395)
Fourth Special Report The Challenge of Diversity: Hate Crime in Northern Ireland: Government Response to the Committee’s Ninth Report of Session 2004-05 (HC 396)
Fifth Special Report Air Transport Services in Northern Ireland: Government Response to the Committee’s Eighth Report of Session 2004-05 (HC 529)
Sixth Special Report Ways of Dealing with Northern Ireland’s Past: Interim Report – Victims and Survivors Government Response to the Committee’s Tenth Report of Sessions 2004-05 (HC 530)
Seventh Special Report The Functions of the Northern Ireland Policing Board Responses by the Government and the Northern Ireland Policing Board to the Committee’s Seven Report of Session 2004-05 (HC531)
Eight Special Report Decision to Cease Stormont Prosecutions (HC814)
Oral Evidence Political and Security Developments in Northern Ireland: Rt Hon Peter Hain MP, Mr Jonathan Phillips and Mr Nick Perry – Wednesday 26 October 2005
Oral Evidence The Police Service of Northern Ireland: Sir Hugh Orde and Mr Paul Leighton – Wednesday 9 November 2005
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Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence
Taken before the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee
on Monday 28 November 2005 The Committee met at the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings, Stormont, Belfast Morning Session
Members present:
Sir Patrick Cormack, in the Chair
Mr David Anderson Lady Hermon Gordon Banks Meg Hillier Mr Gregory Campbell Dr Alasdair McDonnell Rosie Cooper Stephen Pound Mr Stephen Hepburn Sammy Wilson
The written evidence from the Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association is on page Ev 53
Witnesses: Mr William Young, Headmaster, Belfast Royal Academy, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Concerned Parents for Education, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations, Mr Finbar McCallion, Governing Bodies Association, and Dr Hugh Morrison, The Queen’s University, Belfast, examined.
Q1 Chairman: Gentlemen, could I welcome you England are here, but the Northern Ireland ones are formally to this session? This is the first session of the held up in heavy traYc and weather, we are told, but new Northern Ireland AVairs Select Committee, then we are the ones who need educating on this appointed at the beginning of this Parliament, subject most of all. taking evidence in Northern Ireland itself. This Mr Young: Starting on my left, Mr Finbar comes about as a result, Mr Young, of your initial McCallion represents the Governing Bodies letter to me and then your follow-up letter with your Association of the voluntary grammar schools. Sir colleagues. We decided that, whilst we would not be Kenneth Bloomfield is representing the launching a major inquiry into this, we would give Confederation of Former Pupils’ Associations. I, as the various interested parties the opportunity to you know, am Head of Belfast Royal Academy and submit written evidence and to give oral evidence. I am here representing a group of heads of voluntary We are seeing a number of people today, as you and controlled schools. Dr Hugh Morrison is an know; you have seen our programme. Could I point expert witness from the Department of Education at out that you, of course, are welcome to listen to the The Queen’s University, and I am afraid evidence given by others as members of the public if Mr Cosgrove of Concerned Parents has not arrived you wish to, and that you, and indeed anybody who yet. He is travelling from Cookstown and he has listens to this session, is welcome to submit written phoned to say he has been involved in a traYc evidence or further written evidence if they wish to accident. He is fine but will be delayed somewhat. do so. The committee will be seeing the Minister with That is the team. I would like if I may to take the the responsibility for education under the direct rule opportunity briefly of thanking the committee very arrangements, that is, Angela Smith, on much for giving us this opportunity. It has been a 14 December in London. We tried to arrange to see very diYcult five years since I became Principal. No- her in Belfast but it was not possible because one appears to be listening to us and we are deeply 7 December, which was the date we could have done, grateful to have this opportunity to speak with she could not and so she is coming on the 14th. people who may be able to change things for us. Everything is being taken down and you will be receiving a transcript. If there is anything in the Q2 Chairman: We are delighted to see you and thank transcript that you believe is inaccurate in any way you for taking the initiative that you did. I am glad then, of course, you should let our Clerk know and that Mr Sammy Wilson at least has got through the appropriate corrections will be made. We will, of snow. Before we begin the questioning, you have course, be publishing all the evidence that we receive given us a short paper. Is there anything that any of and we may or may not choose to publish a brief you wish to add to that by way of an opening report on the subject. That the committee has not yet statement? decided. With those words of welcome, Mr Young, Mr Young: Not really. We wish to use the time for could I invite you to introduce your team? I ought discussion as much as possible, so we tried an perhaps to apologise for the Northern Ireland executive summary to spell out exactly what we feel. members of the committee. All the ones from We have great concerns. Most of the points from 3a) 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 2 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison to 3d) are educational but two other points that are Dr Alasdair McDonnell, chaired three years ago a very significant too, we believe, are 3e) the costings, meeting of principals to see what could be done. and 3f) the lack of democratic approval. Since that time our school has sent sixth-formers into schools in that area, in no great way, to do Q3Chairman: Thank you very much. Before I call reading and so on but primarily to be role models, my colleagues may I ask you a couple of questions? to show the young people what they could do. It is Would it be true to infer from your written evidence something that as a team we feel really strongly that you believe that the retention of some form of about and we think more should be done, not just by academic selection, though not necessarily the grammar schools. There are other tricks, so to current one, is essential to maintain the high quality speak, that could be done to try and improve the of the education that your schools oVer? situation. Mr Young: We believe this very strongly, that some form of academic selection should be maintained. Q5 Chairman: So those two issues you accept need We are not here just for grammar schools. We do addressing and you would argue that you are believe in the gifts of all the children and addressing them to a degree. Do your colleagues opportunities for all the children in the Province, but wish to add anything to that answer? when we look at the evidence from England and Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: I would very much support from a number of reports that were done in the what Mr Young has said about our interest, not just nineties and so on, the moment academic selection of in the grammar schools but in the whole system. This some type is removed the ones that suVer are those morning, reading the welter of comment about the children from the deprived areas. late George Best, I found it fascinating to reflect— and I had not known this myself—that he had Q4 Chairman: One of the reasons implicit in the passed the 11-plus and won a place in a grammar arguments of those who would see change is that the school and had then voluntarily left it because he did system as presently constituted does not have a not feel all that comfortable in it and he went to the proper balance either between the two local non-grammar school. One puts this in the communities—and we still have to talk in those context of the Government itself saying to us, “We terms, regretfully—or between those who come are not aiming for a one-size-fits-all solution”. I from socially deprived areas and those who come found that fact interesting about the educational life from what I would loosely call middle-class areas. of George Best. How would you respond to those two implicit criticisms, which are really fundamental to the case Q6 Chairman: And many other facts followed! for change? Mr McCallion: When we look to the future of Mr Young: To take the first one about the religious Northern Ireland one of the things we must look for divide, it is still there. My own school I believe puts is diversity. In most of the tolerant societies we go forward very much what can be achieved. We are a ahead and a tolerant society should have tolerance non-denominational school and something in the for faith schools. I think it is very important that region of 27% or 28% of the young people are from they are there. It is also very important that they a Catholic background. More needs to be done than follow a national-type curriculum and that the state that, I believe, but a lot is happening, not just in and the whole of society can have cognisance of what integrated education but also a number of the is going on inside the schools. There is very strong grammar schools have a similar representation to evidence from the United States and other countries my own. In terms of those young people from that, for example, Catholic education or Jewish deprived areas, there is no doubt more needs to be education can have great benefits for communities done there. Sometimes the charge is laid at the which are marginalised in the normal state of aVairs. grammar schools, that the grammar schools are not That is one of the issues that is clear in Northern attracting enough young people from deprived Ireland. No-one looks at the education system and areas. That is true. It is something that we want to sees it as divisive in the sense of outcomes. People see change but I think there are other factors which success in both the Catholic system and the larger should not be laid at the door of the grammar system that sits around it. The two systems should schools. You will probably be hearing this from work together and everyone who looks forward community representatives later, but in deprived wants to see things working together. One of the areas, take, for example, the Greater Shankill area, things we have learned over our time is that security, there are big social problems which aVect the particularly for young men, is a very important ambitions of the parents so that they do not see the issue, that they feel content inside their skin. I grammar schools; they see it more that the local suspect one of the issues that you are facing in school is where the young people should go. It is a England at the moment is when you look at the change from my time. I was born in Londonderry. I Islamic societies. Are these people secure in their was very much working class. In those days my skin as English people or Welsh people or Scots parents gave me the opportunity and pushed me people are? That is an issue that has been quite forward. Sadly, at the moment in some areas like this successful in Northern Ireland through the faith there is not the push from the parents for young schools, that parents will choose. The major issue people to move beyond. We as a school have tried to that we would argue is that it is the parents who the do something about that. One of your members, Catholic church and every other church and every 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 3
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison other group in our society think are the first is so much greater than anywhere else in these educators of their children and we want to help those islands, the Republic or Great Britain, is due not just parents make a success for their children and give to grammar schools but also to superb secondary hope for their children. schools. It is very important that grammar schools Mr Young: May I add one other thing? The system are there to grab young minds. Placed where we are is not perfect. There are things that we see need to be on the edge of Europe, we need the engineers, we done. One of the great strengths of it is the variety of need the scientists, and so on. We do not have the schools. Mr McCallion was talking about faith problems here that England has. We still have the schools. I was interested in the White Paper how the physicists and so on. It is important that that is Prime Minister made the point that in areas where grabbed, but the job that the secondary schools do there is a variety of schools it is that very thing that is quite superb. You will know that young men drives up standards and I believe that is what we especially (and we see it in our own school) can have here. If we follow Costello we will end up in develop dramatically at diVerent stages—at 14, at time—not immediately but five, seven years down 16, at 18; some even develop at university. What the the road—with schools all of the same type. The secondary schools are doing is coping with ones who evidence shows, and the Prime Minister agrees, that are perhaps more tailored for technical or vocational a variety drives up improvement. education but they are also providing a route, a superb escalator, to university and the proof is in the Q7 Chairman: Did you wish to add anything, number of people from deprived areas who move on Dr Morrison? at that stage. Dr Morrison: If I could summarise the curriculum and assessment aspects in a few words, this debate is Q9 Rosie Cooper: The Costello Report indicated often portrayed as a Catholic/Protestant issue. I am that they were not in favour of selection and a Catholic who grew up in pretty diYcult grammar schools are saying that this is the only way circumstances and I see things in this way. It is often to preserve the ethos of the schools; yet we know that portrayed as something that Protestants want and most of the other academic bodies are not in favour Catholics do not. In terms of disadvantage, I think of selection. Why do you think so much of the with the profile we are being oVered the wealthy academic area is not in favour of keeping selection? would just bypass the interests of children from Mr McCallion: I think you have to look back to working-class and poor backgrounds because of the your own history in England. Who brought very vague nature of the profile itself. The profile in comprehensive education in England? meets no international standards. The curriculum Comprehensive education was brought in by the we are getting is a progressivist curriculum. The education departments and the universities. It was Americans abandoned that curriculum in the 1960s the universities, it was the middle classes, who very because of its impact on the poor. The curriculum much drove the theory and the arguments for itself is extremely innovative, based on American comprehensive education, and many people who progressivism where classes should be chaotic and wrote about it commented afterwards they probably children not see structure and so on, and I think that bought their children into private schools. We do would impact negatively on the life chances of the not have a private sector in Northern Ireland; we do poor as well. not have one private school. We have a system that runs in the state sector, very like your direct grant Q8 Mr Hepburn: You have said that you need to get and secondary schools. A second issue is that for more kids from poor backgrounds into your many of the people in education and in the schools. You say that you need more Catholics in universities in Northern Ireland this is the sixties your schools. How long do you need? You have been revolution that did not happen. We went oV and in existence all this time. Is it Costello that has fought a war in our community and left the politics suddenly kicked you into realising that what has behind and now we are playing catch-up. Many of gone on in the past is wrong and you need to change? them seem to be running through the cycle. The issue Mr Young: If you look at the statistics, not just in is: look at the outcomes for young people in Northern Ireland but in England as well, when the Northern Ireland. Our GCSE results, our A-level grammar schools came into being a far greater results, our outcome results are significantly better percentage of young people from working class and it is not only the grammar schools that are doing areas attended them. Here the extra element that has it; it is both grammar and secondary. We do not to be thrown in, of course, is the Troubles and it want an 11-plus. We can see there is a problem with follows the point that Mr McCallion made about 11-plus. It is a one-oV examination. As a parent who people feeling safe in their own areas. There is no has put my own children through it, would I want to doubt that that has changed things. The social view put anyone else’s children through that? I did not of grammar schools has changed as well but an want to do it but I chose to do it because it was the element that we need to point out to you, of course, only show in town. If we could find a gentler, better is that Northern Ireland does not just have great way of advising the parents, helping the parents to schools that are grammar schools; Northern Ireland think their way through, I would prefer that. My has great schools that are secondary schools doing a experience of parents is that you get the parents of superb job. The fact that the numbers going to P5 and P6 children coming to you and saying, “I do university from deprived areas in Northern Ireland not know whether my child should take it”. We need 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 4 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison a system but we do not need to go back and fight the Q10 Rosie Cooper: You indicated that you want to sixties revolution. Let that be past history. There is keep grammar schools and selection of some form a situation in Northern Ireland where we do what but maybe not the 11-plus in the form in which it is. you are just about to abandon. What work have you done on moving that on? Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: Can I emphasise that when Mr Young: Quite a bit of work. May I ask we say “we” we do not just mean the few of us Dr Morrison to say what that is? around this table. It is interesting that attitude to all Dr Morrison: We have proposed a piece of software this has been democratically tested. After the that would not be a large IT project but would be original Burns Report a very wide-ranging something localised in schools to replace what consultative exercise was carried out, probably one CCEA has to oVer. The Pupil Profile that CCEA of the most wide-ranging consultative exercises ever oVers to guide parents at the moment,— carried out, and the outcome of that was that on the one hand people were saying, yes, they thought the Q11 Chairman: CCEA? 11-plus was a very poor way of achieving selection, Dr Morrison: CCEA is the curriculum organisation and we agreed with that, but on the other hand they that produces these tools. This is the description of were quite clearly saying that they wanted an the child’s mathematical ability: “She can academic element to remain in the selection. That investigate ways of posing and solving problems and has been repeated in successive tests of opinion and is starting to communicate, through discussion and in opinion polls. We like to feel we are not just writing, better ways of thinking and acting expressing the view of some selfish interest; we are mathematically in familiar and everyday situations. expressing a broadly democratic interest. Can I say She can also record and present data in diVerent two other things while I have the opportunity to ways and explain why she has chosen her particular speak? Looking at what the Belfast Agreement says method of presentation, as shown in a recent about major issues, it says that arrangements to geography project involving maths and compass ensure key decisions should be taken on a cross- work.” Why are there no marks there? Because part community basis, requiring for such key decisions of the Costello profile is comment-only marking. either parallel consent or a weighted majority. I say Parents cannot receive grades and marks from their with confidence that if this had been tested or were children’s work. The role of assessment for the child to be tested in a Northern Ireland Assembly it would now devolves to the child. In this curriculum the not meet that test. Then I saw the Secretary of State child assesses its own work and the work of its peers. only the other day making a statement about the I cannot see England accepting an assessment Review of Public Administration, which is going to system where the children do their own assessing or be an enormous upheaval in our public services, where they are responsible for assessing each other saying that as far as possible services and functions or where marks and grades are abandoned. The which aVect only the people in an area should come piece of software that we have recommended is under the control of representatives elected by the computer-adaptive testing which has been around citizens who live there. I would say that the citizens for 40 years. It adapts to the child’s ability. For a who live here and those who have been elected by the child, say, who might attempt a question and would citizens who live here by and large are oaf the view ordinarily get zero in it if they got this question that some method of academic selection should be wrong, the software will adapt and ask the child an maintained. easier question so that children even of special educational need could be in the mainstream. We Mr Young: If I may, Sir Patrick, I would like to add have produced a version of the profile and we are not one other thing. You mentioned organisations in looking for a return to the test. We want a profile particular. It is worth pointing out that in the that is not as vague as this. I think a profile as vague household response form which was sent out the as this would give the middle class a chance to steal majority view prevailed, not just the population as a a march on the working class because they would be whole but also teachers, so I am afraid the fact is that able to interpret something as vague as this. When those people at the top of organisations do not I look for attainment in maths I want to know how represent the people in their organisations and the somebody has done in algebra, in geometry and in MORI polls that followed that through the BBC, arithmetic. This idea of not giving marks, of it being through the Belfast Telegraph, confirm it quite an ideology that you do not give marks, is what clearly. It is supposed to be consultation. There were worries us. We have oVered a piece of software three strands in the household survey in particular. which gives a clear score in the various subjects Parental choice was mentioned, the end of the which would guide parents through objective present 11-plus and the retention of some form of information. academic selection. In all three there was a majority. Mr Young: This system is based on international The majority wanted parental choice, the majority standards. It hits them all. It gives equality of wanted the end of the present 11-plus, the majority opportunity, we feel, and is stress-free. One of the wanted academic selection to be retained—and we great criticisms of the present test is the stress. There agreed with all three of those—and some system has is no distortion of the curriculum. We believe, unlike to try and fit those in as best it can, but I am afraid what is proposed, that this is manageable in the it was cherry-picked, not totally accepted and primary curriculum. It will not give a massive academic selection was rejected. headache. It involves ICT. You cannot coach for it; 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 5
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison that is very important. Very important too is that it are very small because Lumen Christi is an all-A is diagnostic. It gives a view, P5, P6, P7, the level the school, so there is evidence out there. The second children are at, and we believe as well, finally, that it issue is that if you go down the line of saying, “We gives very good information for the parents. It will allow a free-for-all”, what you will find is that equips them to see where their child should be going. the middle classes in Northern Ireland will do what Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: Can I point to one rather the middle classes in England have done very grotesque anomaly in what is being proposed to us? successfully. They will move house, buy a property, The centre of this system is supposed to be not only get accommodation addresses, work the system in parental choice but informed parental choice, and whatever way they can. That is not a uniquely the purpose of the Pupil Profile is to allow that English problem; it is also a Scots problem, and if parental choice to be informed, but the system you really want to see it at its worst, go and look in provides only for advice to the parent from the the Republic of Ireland where people move primary primary school head. There is to be no role in this for school to primary school to be in the catchment area the potential receiving school. It seems to me of their ideal or favourite school. We have avoided reasonable that the receiving school should at the that in Northern Ireland to a huge extent because very least be able to say to the parent, “Do you what we have said is that we will try and match understand what sort of school this is? This is a pupils to schools. What we are looking for here is to school of academic rigour. I am not entirely sure that try and do a better job of that. Who will manage any your child will survive here.” I have some personal system anywhere on the planet? The middle classes. experience of this. People in my own family have The only way you can do that is by a system that we found themselves in schools where they were being saw working for ourselves. When I was a young man asked to leap over hurdles that they kept falling at and went to St Mary’s Grammar School in 1957, and there is nothing less in the interests of a child. If there were 120 of us gathered together there. There we are going to have parental choice let there be were no doctors or lawyers, but you see those old, genuinely informed, bilateral parental choice, not grey-haired men now. That is what they are. They this half-baked model which is being presented to us have become middle class and their children are now at the moment. identified as middle class, so one of the problems that the grammar school system and the secondary Q12 Chairman: The weather has obviously allowed school system has in Northern Ireland is that we your colleague to come and all my colleagues from have been so successful we have escalated a set of Northern Ireland have arrived during the last 10 people and now they want to send their children to minutes or so as well. I am sorry you had an the schools that they went to. accident. I hope all is well. Mr Young: It is a very important point that Mr Cosgrove: Nobody was hurt. Mr Wilson makes in three areas. First of all, if you look at the reports on this that are around, there is Q13Sammy Wilson: On the area of social Maeve O’Brien “Making a Move” in which she disadvantage, I think the representatives here have looks at what happens in the Republic of Ireland and maybe done themselves down a little when it comes there, frankly, what happens in a comprehensive to how integrated grammar schools are and also the system with private schools is that the middle percentage of youngsters from working-class classes, the ones who have the economic capital, backgrounds who get to grammar schools in work the system. Intergenerational Mobility by Northern Ireland. It is said that the 11-plus Blandon, Machin and Gregg says quite clearly that disadvantages youngsters from socially comprehensives do not deliver, and that was an disadvantaged backgrounds, but you have intergenerational mobility study in Europe and the mentioned that the Pupil Profile is likely to be even States. The last one, by Ball, Bowe and Gerwitz, more damaging for youngsters from socially talks about choice being eroded and choice being deprived backgrounds. Could you spell out how in illusory. The facts are there. On a practical basis the practical ways you believe that is the case? Principal of Down High School is here today, and he Mr McCallion: I think you have clear examples of it handed me today a breakdown of where last year’s already in England. Look at the schools that are upper sixth went and their background, 88 of them. over-subscribed. They are high status schools This will give you a flavour of what grammar schools around London and the Home Counties, in fact, are delivering for people from deprived areas and almost throughout any part of England. They are diVerent social backgrounds—eight clerical, 10 over-subscribed six, seven and eight times. If you are engineering, seven tradesmen, 10 teaching, six over-subscribed six times that means one sixth of the nurses, three care assistants, four drivers, four children get into the school of their first choice and working in social services, three shopkeepers, seven five-sixths of those children do not get in. Yet in farmers, three medical, four police, nine finance, Northern Ireland something like 88% of the children four law, three architecture/planning, eight business, manage to get into the school of their first choice first four others and one unemployed. That picture I am time. It is partly because there is a form of guidance sure would be the same in lots of schools, not just oVered. If you have an A and you apply to Lumen grammar schools but also in some of these superb Christi in Derry you have a reasonably good chance secondary schools. Lastly, because this comes to of getting in, but you know that if you have got a B what practically will happen under this proposed or a C or whatever your chances of getting in there system, a parent will go along and meet the primary 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 6 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison principal. The hope is that those parents will then economic conditions in the most deprived areas of pick the right school. There are two things that are north and west Belfast and it brought through to me going to work against that. One is that the people in with great clarity why it was that not as many the good suits will put pressure on the teacher and it children from an area like the Shankill as had been will be very hard for them to go against that. That, the case in my day were coming forward to my kind I am afraid, is a fact of life. Secondly, it goes totally of school. It had nothing to do with the native ability against what my view of human nature is. If I am a of the children, nothing to do with the excellence of parent and I am told that that is the right school for the teaching force. It was simply the social and my child and I see another school that I reckon is a economic conditions and the unrest prevailing there. much better one, then I know what I would probably There is a problem there and the solution of it, I am do, and that is go to what I think is the best school. afraid, is going to be a multi-faceted solution. But In practice, therefore, you will not have a situation then I was for eight years, as it happens, the first like here, where 88% of people are satisfied with the Chairman of the Northern Ireland Higher school of their choice. You will have a situation, as Education Council, the local equivalent of HEFCE, Mr McCallion said, as in England where—and it is and we spent a lot of our time talking about access well documented—in lots of ways there is great to higher education and, of course, we saw the dissatisfaction. People are not getting the schools targets that were being set by the government they want and the proportion is six to one and in nationally for this. Not only were we meeting those some cases eight to one. The practicalities, I am targets earlier than everybody else but The Times afraid, backed up by international research and by newspaper published recently a hierarchy of all the an example of one school’s background, show this to universities in the United Kingdom showing the me very clearly. I think you have a sense that I care proportion of their undergraduates who had come deeply about this. I care deeply about this Province from under-privileged backgrounds. What were the and what I see being thrust on us as something that universities right at the top of the list? The Queen’s has failed in England. University, Belfast, ahead of all the other civic universities, the University of Ulster, way ahead, for instance, of a place like Queen Mary & Westfield Q14 Sammy Wilson: How integrated is your school? College, which is on the Mile End Road in the east Mr Young: I think we have a figure on it. We are end of London, which I know very well. That is the non-denominational. I do not ask anybody or want result of the success of our system as an escalator for to know what religion they are, but there is a thing the able children of the working class. they take when they come in because the department from time to time ask us for figures. Even those are not all that accurate because some people might see Q15 Lady Hermon: I do apologise to everyone for themselves as Protestant but tick something else. being so late. Unfortunately, we had at least two car Some people might see themselves as Catholic and accidents in Northdown and traYc chaos; it was not tick something else. We have in the grammar school the weather. If, therefore, I am going over ground 1,400 pupils. At the last check there were 400 that has already been covered I apologise in confirmed as Catholic children, which I am advance. I was particularly struck by the phrase delighted about. At every open evening—and it is “cherry-picking in the household survey”. Cherry- not something that I have said first but my picking has a particular resonance in a diVerent predecessor and my predecessor’s predecessor context but we will concentrate on the household said—these are the words I say to the parents. This survey. Who do you perceive is known to be doing is the situation: a crammed assembly hall, people the cherry-picking? Is it a clique within the wanting to come to my school, and in these days of Department of Education? Is it the department competition I want them to come, but I say this generally? Is it a series of ministers? When you have because I believe in it: “If you are unhappy about identified to us who is doing the cherry-picking can your son or daughter sitting beside a Protestant or a I find out from you what capacity there has been for Catholic or a Hindu or Jew or a Muslim or one of no you to make representations to those people? religion at all, then Belfast Royal Academy is not the Mr Young: I will make an initial statement. I cannot place for you”. Parents know it and it is something really get a handle on it but it seems to me that a I feel really strongly about. small group somewhere in the Department of Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: I want to make one very Education is determined to push this through. I brief point. I realise only too well that your think as well our local ministers are determined to committee has to confine itself to a particular area or push it through. I personally have asked three times it gets very untidy, but it always seems to me rather to meet with the Minister of Education and have a tragedy that from time to time we look at the been turned down three times. education system in bits and pieces. We look at the Mr McCallion: Could I quote a sentence from primary level at one stage, we look at the secondary Monseignor M’Quillan, who is Vicar General in the level at another stage, the tertiary level at another Derry Diocese and sent this in to the RPA: “We have stage. As it happens I have been involved in both the unfortunately a DoE that is weak in its leadership, primary and tertiary sectors as well as the secondary divided in its divisional planning, dismissive of the sector. In the primary sector I was involved in an views of parents, misleading in its information initiative some years ago called “Making Belfast policy and planning statements, and contradictory Work”. It was trying to deal with social and in its outworkings.” 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 7
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison
Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: Otherwise we love it dearly. work that society demands. If I, for instance, who am the most awful sportsman in the world, were sent Q16 Chairman: Can I ask for clarification on the to a school that majored on sport how miserable I point you made a moment ago, Mr Young? You said would be. Fitness for purpose is what we should be the Minister had refused to see you. Was that a aiming for above all. The terminology of winners personal refusal of a personal interview or a refusal and losers I think is profoundly unhelpful. to see representatives as you are this morning? Mr Cosgrove: The concept of failure really only Mr Young: It was to meet with me as a representative came to the fore after 1989 when the common of my school, Belfast Royal Academy. curriculum came in. Prior to that people went, based on the selection system,—and we are not arguing in Q17 Chairman: But she has presumably met with a favour of the 11-plus here—to the local intermediate group like this? schools where they had lathes and woodworking Mr Young: She has met with the Governing Bodies machines. I am an accountant; I am not an Association. educational person at all. I deal with businessmen, Chairman: I just wanted to clarify that because we loads of guys who went through the local are seeing her. Lady Herman, does that answer your intermediate schools and who are a lot wealthier question? than most of us. They have done extremely well and they are saying to me, “Where are the young kids like Q18 Lady Hermon: Yes. I was more interested in I was 30 years ago?”. Our schools are not producing what capacity there has been for a group, as them. In our Concerned Parents for Education yourselves, to make representations directly to the group we have teachers who teach electronics in the department and to various ministers, including the technical schools and they are saying there are no Minister before the present Minister, Angela Smith? kids coming forward to do electronics any more; Dr Morrison: In 50 years of education research I they are doing beauty, hairdressing, media studies. cannot find anything like what is being proposed in They are not coming to do the hard-core, any country in the world. The Pupil Profile meets no engineering-type subjects that the old CSEs would international measurement standards. That is have brought in. We did not have this thing about horrifying to most people. Secondly, the curriculum failure. It is the middle class, to criticise them, who has an exact equivalence to American progressivism are most sensitive if they have a kid who might not which America abandoned in the 1960s because of get the 11-plus and they do not want their child to go V its impact on children from socially disadvantaged in a di erent uniform from the other children. They backgrounds. Being able to debate that, being able are the ones that have been more wrapped up with to get anyone to respond to me on that—and I do this concept of failure since 1989. It is a class thing. not think they should respond to me as an If a child of working class people gets the 11-plus and individual. I have 25–30 international peer review goes on to grammar school, great. If the child does articles in this area. You would expect some sort of not he is going to go to a local technical school and debate but the only way you can get a debate is on they will get him out as a plasterer or a bricklayer the pages of the Belfast Telegraph. No-one will talk and they will just think about their tea, what they are to you, so the instrument has no measurement going to eat next. They are not going to anguish over qualities and the curriculum is one that no-one in it. The concept of failure comes, I think, from the their right mind would take up. That is our problem. common curriculum. I go down to my local Chairman: But we are talking to you and we are jolly intermediate school. I live in East Tyrone where we interested in what you are saying, and I know David do have a greater degree of diversity of education Anderson wants to come in. and mixing between the schools. I myself went as a Catholic to a Catholic school up to my O-levels and Q19 Mr Anderson: Whatever system you put in there then I switched to a Presbyterian school for my A- V is going to be some sort of selection system and there levels. We do have e ective organic integration, but will be winners and losers. One of the things that as a mathematician I also argue in favour of V V sticks in my mind, going back to my mother, is that di erentiation. We have to have di erentiated my mother failed the 11-plus in 1932 or 1933 and the schools in order to work to people’s skills or fact that she failed stuck with her all her life. What, academic strengths or whatever, and then we have in any system, either the one you are proposing, transfers. I make a point of going to my local Dr Morrison, or others, would do away with that intermediate school in Cookstown regularly because fear of failure at 11? I take on quite a lot of their students as temporary Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: Could I reply to that? I get employees in my oYce either for a couple of weeks very tired sometimes of the terminology of winners or for a couple of months over the summer. They and losers. “Fitness for purpose” is the phrase you come in, we talk to them about whether they will go want to keep in your mind. It is in the interests of the to the university or not and things like that, and they child to go to the school that best suits him or her. are, I find, very resilient kids, but I believe that we Not everybody is academically strong. That is a have to emphasise the diVerentiation in core subjects reality. They have many other strengths. We need a and then the concept of failure will evaporate. community where some people become PhDs and Mr Young: To take head-on your question, the get first-class honours degrees and we need a concept of failure is there; there is no doubt about community where other people do the rest of the it. It is maybe exaggerated a bit, but I know a lot 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 8 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison of primary school teachers who would say it is the background with a poor educational performance? parents, particularly middle-class parents, who put Again in a sentence, we have talked a little bit about the pressure on. Nevertheless it is there, and it is a a selection process of some sort. Would you two-test, sudden-death system and it would be very countenance any serious changes to the present diYcult for this not to be there. The system that we education system? are talking about is much more gradual than that. Mr Young: You probably were not in when I took It is computer adaptive testing where young people your name in vain. can do it at any stage in their primary school. They can do it again and again. If you are asked a Q22 Dr McDonnell: It was reported to me! question and you get it right, well and good, you Mr Young: I remember clearly the meeting that you get a harder question; if you get that right you get and someone else held in the Methodist College. a harder question. If you get it wrong you get an You invited along grammar school heads to look at easier question, so the levels are given. ways in which we could influence the system, and I know your main interest was the Greater Shankill Q20 Chairman: Who wants to be a millionaire, eh? area. One of the weaknesses I perceived was that Mr Young: Absolutely. You understand that we are there were no secondary heads at that meeting and I very aware of that. I think the eVect it has may be suggested we have another meeting with grammar overplayed but I take your personal experience very and secondary there. Arising out of that, I was much. We want to have a system whereby that is convinced by what you said, that we needed to do minimised as much as possible, and I do feel that this more, and on a personal school level for the past system that we propose does that. three years since then we have sent young people to Dr Morrison: I share that experience. I failed the test the primary schools in that area as role models. In but went on later and joined a grammar school, and the current year we have 35. Actually, 60 so there is movement back and forward. One thing volunteered but I could not get the transport to get I would want to say is that the grammar schools do them across. They are simply doing that, as I think perform a service as well for the secondary schools. you hoped, on a one-to-one basis and a one-to-three I teach in the Graduate School of Education. We basis as a role model, and schools especially look for currently have on our PGC course—and we reject young men. That model that we are doing is lots of people—38 mathematicians, qualified around something that could happen in a lot of areas. I 3Bs/3As standard at A-level, with degrees, in many would gladly serve on any committee free to look at cases Cambridge degrees, so we do not have any of a way ahead. I would not charge as Costello has the problems of recruiting teachers. Those teachers charged to give my advice. If we were to do it and, come in, maybe attracted to the idea of teaching in a for example, grammar schools and secondary grammar school, and teach in the secondary school schools were to adopt primary schools and do that system and enjoy teaching in the secondary school sort of thing, that would be a real escalator. We can system. In a sense, therefore, the system is organic talk about why enough are not applying to grammar and we talk in terms of the system’s performance schools but this is the key. What changes would I rather than the performance of the grammar schools make to the whole thing? The process we have talked and secondary schools separately. It is a system about. I would give a lot of money to primary thing. schools in these deprived areas. There is no point in Mr Young: Just taking on what Dr Morrison talked our saying that we are down on literacy and down on about in modern languages and the hard sciences, we numeracy. We are not that far down actually; we are all know what is happening in England at the sitting pretty well in the world, but more needs to be moment, that certainly in the state sector there are done. Primary schools in deprived areas need a lot of ones teaching physics who do not even have an A- money on a one-to-one basis to try and bring the level in physics. We do not have that problem here levels up. At the other level, people talk about but we will have that problem if we go down this specialist schools. At the last A-level exams in our road. From our very good secondary schools and school, out of 600 subject entries only five failed. In from grammar schools there are ones in the hard other words, all departments passed. Am I going to sciences going to university and coming back into say to one, “You are going to be a specialist”? We the system to teach, and that is a strength which we have specialists. That is why the grammar school must not forget about. If that is removed then the system should be retained. I have said before that specialists will go, and for youngsters from the some secondary schools are doing a superb job. deprived areas I have seen in school there is no Others find they need more assistance. If assistance greater escalator than a young person from a poor is needed, give them assistance, give them specialists. background coming in and being grabbed by the specialist, being excited by the specialist and saying, Q23Chairman: I think we get the message! “That is what I want to do with my life”. Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: It was an old boy at my school who invented Who Wants to be a Millionaire?. Q21 Dr McDonnell: Mr Young and colleagues, I In answer to that question, we want a mutually welcome your evidence. I have a couple of questions reinforcing system at all levels. An interesting which only require brief answers, and the first is a example of that is Derry, which Mr Campbell knows question I have put to you personally before. What very well, where the university has a step-up do you feel you can oVer the poor child from a poor programme, and the step-up programme involves 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 9
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison university students, teachers in the university, going is giving a reliable measure. There is no reliability into areas where the whole idea of higher education associated with it. Indeed, I do not think it could be has been anathema. You cannot even think of it, “It computed. is not the sort of thing we do”. That kind of mutual reinforcement can and should take place at all levels of the education system. Q25 Chairman: Could I interject: not marks based Mr McCallion: One of the side features that is on a specific test done at a specific time? coming through Costello is what is called 24/27, that Dr Morrison: There are no marks in it at all. It is every school should be able to oVer children 24 comment only. GCSEs and 27 A-levels. For many of our secondary schools that is an impossible task; they are far too Q26 Chairman: Sorry—your test is not based on small. In the documentation, which has been secret marks on a specific day, sitting down on a Saturday up until fairly recently, there was a sentence which morning filling in a form? said, “Very small schools would be unable to oVer Dr Morrison: Correct. I should make that clear. It is the Costello entitlement”, and then someone at the a profile gathered over three years. It could be last meeting of Costello drew a line through “very” conceivably P5, P6, P7. The child could cancel parts and decided that small schools would be unable to of the profile which might be regarded as atypical oVer the entitlement. Small schools in Northern Ireland are 500-pupil schools. That is schools with but it would give a graph of the child’s performance intakes of round about 90 pupils. In most of rural over the three years and it would adapt to the child’s Northern Ireland that is regarded as quite a large ability. The worry people have about this is that the secondary school. We are going to put that at coaches who coach the test will now do the child’s enormous risk. We are secondly going to put it at profile for them. There is a great deal of worry about enormous risk with the curriculum that is on oVer plagiarism in course work. This is a high stakes because they are saying one third of it should be decision for parents. I think this is open to all sorts vocational subjects. I was principal of a secondary of plagiarism, whereas what we are proposing is not school for part of my career and I assure you that not open to anything of that sort. In a sense all we are one of the subjects that was available could have asking for is a change in the profile. We just want been or would be taught within my school. The another profile; it is as simple as that. With regard to subjects that the Department of Education put out the curriculum part of it, which is based on in June to the schools was an FE curriculum, so what American progressivism, all the evidence is that we are looking at so far as the secondary schools of American blacks, for instance, did not perform Northern Ireland are concerned is that they feel particularly well in open classrooms where children themselves damaged by the grammar schools, that were investigating things. They needed structure in we are creaming oV the good pupils. We are back their lives. They needed to be instructed. If we were now to 1985 figures of 11-year olds but we now have to tell Northern Ireland parents, “Your child is now 18,000 children in integrated schools, so they assessing himself”, I think they would find that (secondary schools) are being cut that way, and the pretty unpalatable, but because of the teacher third feature that is bound to come out of Costello is assessment dimension of it they would have to do that the FE colleges will cut back on secondary that for issues of reliability and validity which I will schools as well. To try and build a good system in not go into. That would be the fundamental Northern Ireland when people feel that they are diVerence. It would not be a hot day in June, as being cut from all directions is impossible. people say. It would not be a test on a specific Chairman: Perhaps we ought to see this Costello occasion. It would be a rich profile over time that all chap at some stage but we will talk about that later. children could engage in. At the moment, He will come here free! unfortunately, some children do not engage in the transfer test. They sit at the back of classrooms and Q24 Gordon Banks: The panel has talked this that horrifies us. They would all be engaged from the morning already a little bit about the Pupil Profile word go and parents would have a clear idea of how but I wonder if you could emphasise two points: how they were doing over time. That statement I read to the grammar school suggested profile would diVer you about maths does not involve the words from the Costello model, and do you believe that the “algebra”, “geometry”, “arithmetic”. It involves profile that is used by receiving schools does statements like, “She can record and present data in eVectively still allow selection to continue? diVerent ways and explain why she has chosen her Dr Morrison: I suppose the distinction between what particular method of presentation, as shown in her we are oVering and what is in Costello is that recent work in geography”. I think parents will want Costello was extremely vague. All the evidence says under “mathematics” to read things like that the middle class will get round that, will be able “arithmetic” and “place value” and “fractions”. to interpret this prose in the most positive way for Mr Young: High expectation is really important. If their children. That really worries me about you set it high young people will go for it. Set it low Costello. Our profile is based on marks with an and they will settle for it. That is what happens in assured reliability and validity measure so that the comprehensive education: young people settle for it. technical robustness, as it is referred to, of the The vagueness that is being proposed I believe is measure is in the profile, so it is clear that the profile taken away by the system that Dr Morrison refers to. 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 10 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison
Q27 Meg Hillier: Just touching on the Pupil Profile, sixth, 12th and sixth. In Europe in those three we are I have been chairman of governors at a primary second, seventh and third. If you look at England, school in a very deprived area of London and there, England has gone down from eighth, eighth and when the teacher did pupil profiling alongside SATS fourth to 12th, 18th and 11th and it now puts testing, which is the prevailing testing system in England in about 18th place. In fact, England is not England, when it is done well it can be very good. Is oYcially recorded because not enough people sent one of your concerns that there is not a certain level returns in and most people believe that that of quality and experience among primary teachers to happened because the results were probably worse in do that level of profiling? those schools. We see the two systems going like Dr Morrison: Yes, and I think it is interesting that that. If you then progress to the GCSE level you see Harvard in 1908, when it admitted students by test, Northern Ireland with the five passes 10% better, had 55% of undergraduates from the public school and in the England figure we have to remember that system. They changed it to a profile and, because of it was Hyman, I think, who was with Tony Blair up the very concerns you have expressed, the way the to 2003, has written an essay and he said that profile is used by teachers and so on, there are now wherever he went any school that improved in virtually no students from the public schools as England only improved because they used the undergraduates in Harvard. Thomas Telford GNVQ Intermediate ICT, which is worth four GCSE grades, and that is a thing which Q28 Meg Hillier: Maybe it is an issue about training you can do in a year, have another go, have another and support for those primary teachers because go and have another go. There is a 10% diVerence when it is done well, as I say, it is excellent. and in the England figures you also have the GNVQ Dr Morrison: What concerns us is ideologies like being used to bolster the figure. When you take it a comment-only marking, that you must not give stage further to advanced level, there you see us marks or you must not grade children because it about 7% better at the two A-levels passes, generally leads to competition. I think that, no matter how better, and if you take the average A-level pass, well the training might be, with a statement as vague startlingly, in England it is 75.1 and in Northern as that a middle-class parent would have the ability Ireland it is 90.9. That is based on the UCAS code of to interpret it in its best possible light and a working- 120 for A, 100 for B, 80 for C and so on. Think of class parent might not even be able to make sense of that: 75.1, Northern Ireland 90.9. You can see from why maths is being portrayed in this way, and the the same sort of base suddenly it projects. To go training would be very diYcult. back to what you said about not performing just as Mr McCallion: One of the strange features about the well, I would have to say that if you take any household survey is that the more working-class education system and look at it you would say that sections of the population had great faith in pupil too. There are young people that need help. It is not profiling and the more middle-class sections of the ideal. We need things. But I suspect that concerns population had less confidence in the Pupil Profile, are based on the GCSE point score. The GCSE point whereas I suspect the reality of it is that the middle score is eight for an A-star, seven for an A and so on. classes could use the profile much more successfully, There are figures that would show on the average V and I suspect that is why the di erence is there. GCSE point score that Northern Ireland is about two points below England. That is what the whole Q29 Meg Hillier: Going into the issues about social thing is based on. How ridiculous that is is illustrated deprivation that you mentioned, and the interesting by this point: five passes at C grade are worth 25 comments and quite compelling arguments about points, five D grades and two E’s (which are not the social progression that people can make, and passes) are worth 26 points, so it is not something certainly there is evidence of that from the system in you can rely on at all. the past in England, is it not true that in Northern Ireland, while the best pupils do much better than pupils in England, Scotland and Wales, there are too many children leaving at 15 without qualifications? Q30 Chairman: I really must come in because that Mr Young: That, I am afraid, is incorrect. This is was a very long answer. I will ask you to send a little spread around quite a bit. This will be a fairly note on that because we only have another six or lengthy answer. They cannot quite compare, but if seven minutes. you compare Key Stage 2 and Key Stage 3 results Mr Cosgrove: Of the percentage that allegedly leave between Northern Ireland, say, and England, there school without qualifications I would ask, and I do is not that much diVerence at Key Stage 2. At Key not know the answer to this, how many of them are Stage 3 in English we see England slightly ahead. If unemployed? My empirical observation from my you project that further on, and we look at PISA, close workings with the local intermediate schools two studies have been done in 2000 and 2003. If you down my way is that builders are going into the look at the 2003 study, in English, in maths and in schools and suggesting to the kids, “Come on out, science there are quite startling diVerences. We’ll train you”, even suggesting to the kids that Northern Ireland in 2003 was placed in those at they leave school as early as 14. I would suspect that sixth, 12th and sixth. In the 2000 study Northern a lot of those young kids that have left school have Ireland was tenth, tenth and tenth. This is out of 43 been headhunted by the builders, by the bricklayers, countries, a quarter of a million children, so we were people wanting them to train. 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 11
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison
Mr Young: I will send you details on this, but in process. If the grammar schools want to be academic participation rate and full time education, at age 16 schools they will have to live by their words. You Northern Ireland is 9% ahead; at 17, startlingly, it cannot keep on hunting the numbers down so that is 15%. everyone ends up in a grammar school. Suppose our population halved again. It is unlikely to but Q31 Chairman: You are a wonderful advocate for suppose it did. Where would we be? Would we have Northern Ireland. grammar schools which were full to the doors and no Mr Young: Sir Patrick, I hope I am. other schools in Northern Ireland? That is crazy. Chairman: Could we have a written answer to the The GBA went and saw the political parties in next question? Northern Ireland when the Labour Government was elected, and said, “We need to start thinking Q32 Meg Hillier: Can I ask a question and the ahead of a future for education in Northern Ireland answer can be put in writing because I am aware that and we will take our lumps”. It was put as bluntly as colleagues need to come in on other things? You that. We know what is going to happen here. The talked a lot about some of the action that you were numbers are going down, we can see ahead and we taking particularly at school level at Belfast Royal were looking towards 2005. That was nine or 10 Academy about going to deprived areas to years ago. We have wasted the in-between period. encourage children in. I would be interested to know That is one of the tragedies of it. We have wasted a your thoughts about how to encourage children whole set of children that have gone through. If the from those areas to apply but also the lower level grammar schools want to be academic they will have improvement maybe that is needed. In Britain Sure to pay the price. Lumen Christi is an A-school Start has been very popular and very eVective at because it has 120 places and about 150 As apply. improving the chances of young people. It is too There are some grammar schools which are like that. much of a subject to get into in the next few minutes Grammar schools in Northern Ireland are not like but perhaps we could have something in writing. grammar schools in GB. They are much more mixed Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: I have mentioned the fact and much wider, but at the end of the day there will that I was involved with the programme Making have to be a limit; we all accept that. Belfast Work. We were a lot of middle-aged male under-secretaries talking about this. I said to the guys one day, “A lot of our people in the Civil Q34 Stephen Pound: But would you close grammar Service live in these areas but because they are low schools? down the hierarchy nobody ever talks to them. I Mr McCallion: We have closed grammar schools. In want you to come to the next meeting and bring half 1980 there were two Royal Schools in Armagh; there a dozen of these young people”. It presented to us is now one. There were two Catholic boys’ grammar the reality that in some of these areas the whole idea schools in Armagh; there is now one, Sacred Hearth of going to a grammar school and wearing a blazer of Mary, Hollywod and Our Lady & St Pat’s in and pursuing an academic curriculum was somehow Knock were two separate grammar schools. They sissy: “It is not quite the sort of thing that people like are now joined together as one. There was a us do”. One has to find a way of breaking through grammar school at Whitehead, Whitehead that attitudinal diYculty. It is not easy but it has to Grammar School; it has gone. There was a grammar be done. school at Bushmills; it has gone. There was a grammar school— Q33 Stephen Pound: Costello contains the dread Chairman: You have made your point. phrase, “The status quo is not an option”. We heard from Fi McCallion. I think you were talking about Q35 Mr Campbell: A more emphatic response I Lumen Christi. You described it as an A-school. could not have thought of. I wanted to raise the issue Presumably that means that they will only accept about the social scale. We have had some pupils who get As. If you have a falling population, considerable discussion in the education debate if you have major demographic changes, what Y happens? Do you admit pupils at a lower level of about the di culties in working class areas and it has attainment or do you close grammar schools? In been alluded to this morning, and that is a other words, is Costello right and is the status quo fundamentally important point. Mr McCallion and not an option or, within the context of demographic I think maybe one other of the witnesses referred in change, can you still provide the clearly excellent passing to the other end of the scale. I am just provision that you are doing? wondering if any of the witnesses have personal Mr McCallion: We have spent the last five years experience of the problems in other parts of the UK arguing about 11-plus. The reality is that we should or the Republic of Ireland or elsewhere, where there have spent the last five years planning an education is a greater degree of disposable income in the system. We are back to the numbers we had in 1985. middle to upper income brackets which is then We have the same number of 11-year olds today. The channelled into relocation, second homes or what numbers going into grammar schools are the same as and an education system has emerged that may well they were then. The numbers going into secondary emerge post-Costello. There was some brief schools are fewer because we have opened new reference to it by Mr McCallion. I wonder if anyone schools without planning and managing that has any first-hand experience of it. 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 12 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr William Young, Mr Peter Cosgrove, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Mr Finbar McCallion and Dr Hugh Morrison
Mr Young: The notes are there. I do not think you Q40 Chairman: We can all give anecdotal evidence were in when I quoted three major studies done on of that. You talked about bright and dim. I think we comprehensive education and those who have have got bright on this side of the table and very economic capital and social capital. There are plenty much brighter on that. Thank you very much indeed of studies that I could send you details of. for your evidence. I know that there will be points that you will wish to have made and you must feel completely free, Mr Young and all your colleagues, Q36 Chairman: Perhaps you could do that. to send us supplementary evidence, and we may well Mr Cosgrove: I am an accountant but I taught for wish to send you some questions to which we want one day in a private school in Oxford. answers when we have our private deliberative session. I am sorry that this has, by the very nature Q37 Chairman: You are clearly very well qualified. of things, had to be a relatively brief session, but you Mr Cosgrove: A friend of mine brought me over. It have put your case with panache and based on a lot just struck me that it was all about money. You were of experience and we are very grateful to you. bright on this side and you were dim on this side of Mr Young: Finally, two very important areas that I the class. That is the way she split the class up. I just had hoped we would get on to were population had to go along. This was a secondary school. We do figures and projections given in Costello that are not have private schools here at all. totally wrong and, secondly, no costing. That is a very serious matter. Both those we have not talked about but your committee need to look at that. Q38 Chairman: You have some. Mr Cosgrove: Very marginally but they do not Q41 Chairman: Indeed, and you must send us that impact on me. information. Any information that you feel has not been adequately put or put at all you must feel free to send to us and we will look at it. We are very Q39 Chairman: We have had one or two letters from grateful to all five of you gentlemen. those who purport to go to them, so I think you Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: Chairman, one last word. have some. We are so grateful to be heard. We feel at times we Mr Cosgrove: All I am saying is that we do not have have been engaged in a dialogue of the deaf. We them but we have loads of people who are first time plead not to be overtaken by events. It would really generation at university and we in Cookstown have be extraordinary when you have been taking this loads of buses leave Cookstown because we have no evidence from us if early next month we have some grammar school in Cookstown. Four buses go to binding decision taken by the Minister and the Magherafelt, four buses go to Dungannon, buses go whole thing proves to have been a waste of time. We from very heavily populated hinterlands to allow sincerely hope that is not going to happen. people that choice, ordinary people who have never Chairman: We hope so too. The Minister is coming been to university before. They get on those buses before the committee on 14 December. There is a and they go to those schools and I feel that is all draft order going to be published for consultation. I going to be undermined because the criteria are am assured it is indeed a draft order for consultation not defined. and this committee will certainly treat it as a draft Sir Kenneth Bloomfield: I have a personal experience order for consultation. We shall want to make although it is rather outdated. I lived some years ago representations to the Minister based on what we in New York, in Manhattan. There was only one have heard. I cannot tell you what representations public school, as the Americans say, in Manhattan the committee will make because we shall want to that anybody wanted their children to go to, and hear the other witnesses today and we shall want to guess what that did to the property prices within the deliberate among ourselves. You have put up a very catchment area? They were simply buying places in good show, if I may say so. Thank you very much that school. indeed for coming.
Written evidence from the Council of Catholic Maintained Schools is printed on page Ev 68
Witnesses: Mr Donal Flanagan, Chief Executive, Mr Jim Clarke, Deputy Chief Executive, and Ms Margaret Martin, Principal, St Catherine’s College, Armagh, examined.
Q42 Chairman: Could I welcome you, Mr Flanagan, we would have a more wide-ranging series of evidence- and your colleagues? As you will know, this series of taking sessions, which is why you are here, and we are sessions comes about as a result of approaches which seeing others this afternoon and others in were made to the committee initially by those who Londonderry tomorrow. We are very grateful to you were very concerned about the impact on the grammar for coming. Could I first of all ask if you would like to schools of the Costello Report implementation. They introduce your two colleagues and tell us what you all put forward a series of submissions which we felt we do, and then if you would like to make an opening should give them chance to expand upon in public submission before we ask you questions you are most session, but we also felt that if we were going to that welcometodoso. 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 13
28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin
Mr Flanagan: Thank you, Sir Patrick, and thank child to find something in the education system you for the invitation for myself and my colleagues which would benefit them, not just as they moved to present ourselves this morning. My name is Donal through the education system but as they moved into Flanagan. I am the Chief Executive of the Council a social and economic life beyond. We also felt it for Catholic Maintained Schools. On my right hand important that we looked to the economy which is Mr Jim Clarke, who is my Deputy Chief Executive exists in Northern Ireland. It is a fact that we and has primary responsibility for standards within produce very high levels of students with very good our organisation, and on my left hand side is Ms A-level results but it is also a fact that we do not have Margaret Martin, who is the Principal of St an economy to employ them. We export 30% of our Catherine’s College in Armagh. There is a very A-level plus students at the age of 18. Of the 30% interesting background to that particular college who go away only 28% ever return but we lose a which is perhaps, pound for pound, our highest further 13% of graduates. achieving school in Northern Ireland at this particular point in time. Q44 Chairman: Is that the fault of the education system? Q43Chairman: Is there anything you would like to Mr Clarke: It is the fault of the economy. My point, say by way of opening submission? Sir Patrick, is that we need to have a mechanism to Mr Flanagan: Mr Clarke was the person who was link our education system to our economy and we our representative on the Costello Report so I will have failed to do that. We have also a cultural issue ask him to make an initial address and then we will in Northern Ireland, which is the aspiration not just pick up the issues thereafter. of the middle classes, that there is safety in public Mr Clarke: Good morning, Chairman. I think it is services, and there is safety in the professions. There important that if we are going to have this debate is no groundswell for people to take risks in our that we see education where it sits within a whole economy and indeed there may well be aspects of the range of public services in Northern Ireland and economy which discourage risk. The simple fact of beyond. If I could quote the Secretary of State in his life is that in a global economy we have to find our comments last week in relation to the Review of niche. We have not found that niche yet, evidenced Public Administration, he mirrored to some extent by the fact that 67% of employees in Northern Tony Blair’s “Education, education, education”. Ireland are linked one way or another to the public His opening remarks were, “Education provides the service and we also have levels of salary in the public cornerstone for the future prosperity of the service here which on average are better than in the Northern Ireland economy and is the key platform private sector. We have to redress the balance. We upon which to build long-term peace based on have to have an education system which works for mutual respect.” I think that is a key issue when we Northern Ireland and for all the young people of come to look at education. The Burns Report was Northern Ireland as they move towards the future. entitled Education for the 21st Century and I think it The proposals in the Costello Report aimed to do is very important that we take a look at what that. They were not defending any philosophical education is about. It is not about defending schools, base to education. They were about including any particular institution, nor any particular type of everyone in order to get the best possible advantage institution. It is about meeting the needs of children, for education. Our beliefs are that what we should be but children who are growing up in the 21st century looking at here are the interests of the children and and whose needs are 21st century needs, not 20th the interests of Northern Ireland and our education century needs. It needs to be a recognition that we system should be part of the process of meeting V are all individuals. We learn di erentially, we are those needs. motivated by diVerent things, we have diVerent interests. We are also people who live in a society which is changing and which requires us to have a Q45 Chairman: Is that something that you associate whole new range of skills for living and, particularly yourselves with? You are full supporters of the in Northern Ireland, skills which allow us to live Costello Report, are you? together. Thirdly, we can only live prosperously in Ms Martin: I also served on the Post-Primary any community if we have an economic background Review, known as the Costello Report. I would like which is going to support that. Indeed, I suppose to come at it from a slightly diVerent angle because underpinning much of what the Secretary of State I am the practitioner here. It is very important that and the ministers have said of late is about Northern we hear not statistics but the reality as it is on the Ireland paying its way. In many respects Northern ground. I would like to preface all of that by saying Ireland pays its way more than people recognise in that I am dismayed that we are not really focusing on terms of its educational contribution, not just to the young person. That is central to all of this. Northern Ireland but specifically to GB, Europe and Education is about young people and about systems the rest of Ireland. The key issue here is that we need that support them. The Post-Primary Review, ie, the a relationship between the economy, our society and Costello Report, has done something very our education system and to date that is absent from significant and that is put the young person at the what we have. The purpose of the proposals for the centre of the system and allow the structures to work 24 and 27 subjects which have come up was to round them. I come at it with the belief that the best provide for that motivating interest in education so way of proving that you are right is to do it, and that that we had an inclusive system which allowed every has been our reality in Armagh in St Catherine’s 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 14 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin
College. We amalgamated a grammar school and a Ms Martin: In terms of? secondary school in 1973. Just to give you a little bit of information about that amalgamation, the Q49 Chairman: In terms of percentages. Mr Young students in the secondary school which was said that although his was a non-denominational amalgamated with the grammar school never took school there were 400 Catholics there. Yours is a any examinations, so we were coming at it from one Catholic school and we accept that but how many section of the school-going population who had Protestants and others are there? never access to any examinations. We have built a Ms Martin: We are in the Catholic tradition so they very successful school predicated on the idea of high would be in a significant minority.1 expectations for absolutely everyone. Our agenda is one of equality, it is one of access and it is one of Q50 Chairman: 10%? inclusivity. Earlier this morning I listened to the Ms Martin: Yes, possibly at 10%, no more than that. debate about social disadvantage, about young We are multi-ethnic as well, so we have that mix also. people who were deemed at 11 perhaps not to be In addition to that we have an Irish-medium sector, academically able. That is not our reality. We so we have students in our school who are educated welcome everyone. We have a complete social, through the medium of Irish. That is another mix economic and ability range in St Catherine’s and that is very unusual in the north of Ireland. College. Q51 Lady Hermon: How about your staV? How mixed are your staV? Q46 Chairman: How many pupils do you have? Ms Martin: Our staV are very mixed. Ms Martin: We have 1,050, so we are a reasonably large school. We believe in equality, we believe in access, and we believe in ensuring that the potential Q52 Chairman: What sort of mix? that is in every single student is realised. I can give Ms Martin: We have probably 75/25, and in the you examples of statistical information as to how north of Ireland that would be quite high. our level of achievement has risen over the years, and earlier this morning I listened to one of our Q53Chairman: And you have been Principal for colleagues here speak about the amalgamation of how long? two other schools in Armagh in the grammar sector. Ms Martin: This is my 15th year as Principal. We out-perform them every single year and yet we have students coming through to us with varying Q54 Chairman: So what you have been describing to levels of ability but they are all treated equally and us is very much what you have created? given a chance to perform. There is no sense of Ms Martin: And what I helped to create. I have been failure. Our agenda is one of high expectation. It is Principal since 1991 but the school was established V of redressing any sense of disadvantage that those in 1973 and I have been on sta for all of that time. young people have and ensuring not only that they will achieve their potential but also that they will go Q55 Chairman: For the whole period? out and make a contribution to society, the Ms Martin: As a young member of staV, then as contribution that Jim has talked about. We will have Deputy Principal and then as Principal, so I have 80–90% of our leavers going into higher and further seen it grow from its infancy to the success that it education and the remainder going straight into enjoys today. That bears testimony to something employment. We are doing a significant job of work that lives. for the 21st century, for the young people who come to us, and they come to us from varying Q56 Chairman: It bears testimony to your backgrounds. I will leave for your perusal an article leadership, if I may say so. on St Catherine’s College published in The Guardian Ms Martin: In all of this, and I think it needs to be newspaper last year which commented on the ethos said, leadership is vital. In whatever way the of the school and on the fact that there is no religious education system goes here we are going to need or racial prejudice even though our mix is right good leaders and we are going to have to face the across the board. challenges which have also been mentioned this morning but which I think need to be spoken of, and my colleagues will speak about those. That is a Q47 Chairman: What is your mix? demographic downturn and also a changing world Ms Martin: Basically we are in the Catholic tradition for which we need a changing curriculum. but that does not prevent us accepting people from other traditions, from other backgrounds, Q57 Chairman: I want to get my colleagues in but I and in a climate I suppose which has seen a very know Mr Flanagan now wants to say something diYcult 30 years in Northern Ireland. We have to briefly. pay tribute to the work that our schools have done Mr Flanagan: You have heard from Jim who gave a as being the only safe haven for many of our global perspective and from Margaret a micro- young people. perspective. Can I briefly give a strategic perspective? When my organisation was set up it was
Q48 Chairman: But what is your mix? 1 (See note from witness, page Ev 70) 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 15
28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin because of human rights concerns about the significant in terms of standards overall. We have standards within the Catholic-maintained sector developed rigour in terms of persuading the and there were significant diVerentials in terms of Department of Education to set up a range of outcomes in the mid eighties to early nineties. Early initiatives to support those schools that were having in 1990 my organisation set up a working party to diYculties and those initiatives have proved to be look at raising standards in education and from that extremely useful, but we have bought into it as well. working party we clearly set out a strategy which we The evidence would be, particularly in our sector, have followed over the last 10 to 12 years. There were that the level of improvement within Catholic four elements to the strategy. One was to make sure maintained schools is sustained for a much longer that the focus for all schools was primarily on the time than other schools who have been involved in raising of standards. We exercised that focus by the programme because we have clearly set ourselves beginning to challenge weak management and poor up as a standards body. Equally, in terms of our leadership and it is a role that we have managed school plant there has been very significant change. fairly eVectively. Secondly, it was to make sure we Some of our schools have been operating in mobile got the very best leaders and teachers within our classrooms for a long period of time and that change schools, and we have a very rigorous and robust has enhanced and improved the performance process to achieve that. Thirdly, we wanted to ensure overall, not only for the children but also for many that our young people were educated in an of our teachers, incidentally, whose levels of environment which was conducive to learning attendance overall have increased on the basis of a outcomes and, fourthly, we identified in our working new school being built. There are lots of interesting party report that selection was a structural statistics around that. Critically, we did recognise impediment to raising standards overall in Northern that selection was a structural impediment and that Ireland, that it, if you like, condemned many is where your committee comes to this equation: why children to a wasteland in education. The impact of do so many of our young people continue to achieve that is still resonant in many people in Northern such low standards overall? Ireland. For example, it would be referred to in some quarters as a mortal sin of education. Almost within any few minutes of talking to anybody in Northern Q60 Meg Hillier: I want to pick up on the issue of Ireland we get round to the business, “Did you pass leadership. Margaret Martin has obviously had 15 or fail?”, and that is a legacy that runs right through years as Principal. In Britain now, certainly in our a system and a legacy which creates diVerences England in my experience, head teachers in London and separates people in many ways. We have been in deprived areas with challenging schools are being working on a process to remove selection over that paid a great deal now. Are head teachers’ salaries period of time. We have called upon the research; we comparable here? have got the research. We have called upon the Mr Flanagan: Jim was one of those people. Government to set up particular bodies to manage Mr Clarke: I was Principal of a school in north this. We have got that and we have got the responses Belfast that you might be visiting today. It was what and we are moving forward today to try to find was called a Group One school—the Group One solutions. In all of the conversation this morning I Initiative was something that was inspired by CCMS heard a very gallant defence of grammar schools. We with the Department of Education—which, are not here to diminish grammar schools in any incidentally, has just over 79% free school meals, way. What we are trying to do is find a better way and I think that should be taken alongside the view forward for all our young people. that the average in the grammar sector is around 7%. What Group One was about was recognising that there were structural impediments to schools Q58 Chairman: Did you all hear this morning’s making improvements. One of those was the evidence? curriculum. We need to go back to the curriculum Ms Martin: Yes. issue. In 1989 Northern Ireland followed the model Mr Flanagan: Yes. of England, much against the advice of many Mr Clarke: Most of it, not all. educationalists here in Northern Ireland, because we Chairman: Thank you. That is helpful for my had been pursuing a programme of schools colleagues in asking questions because you know the examining themselves and setting in place their own base from which we are coming, having heard structures for renewal through an initiative called Mr Young and his colleagues. The 11 and 16 Programme. The Northern Ireland curriculum from 1989, which mirrored the English Q59 Meg Hillier: Would it be fair to say that one of model, was an academic curriculum which your missions is to improve rigour—you mentioned diminished many of the vocational areas which were leadership as well—in secondary schools? When you being developed, so we started out with a process to talk about the important programme it is to invest raise standards but which in many cases diminished special rigour in the system? It is a yes or no answer. standards in areas of schools where there was a Mr Flanagan: We have developed a number of significant enrolment from a disadvantaged strategies and the first one was to challenge weak background. There are several of these Group One management and poor leadership. It was evident in schools, four of them in Belfast. In north Belfast our sector and over a period of 10 years there has there are three, in west Belfast one and there is one in been significant leadership change in a number of Derry. Open enrolment, selection, the LMS formula schools. The outcome of that has been quite based on pupil numbers, meant that these schools 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin were at the mercy of demographic downturn. They Q66 Meg Hillier: Could I just pick up on the school also were at the mercy of the vagaries of the transfer support programme and the fact that it has not system, so the numbers transferring each year could worked in all schools? I wondered if you could make not be planned. There was no potential for future any brief comments about why that may be. If you planning in many of these schools and this initiative are an organisation that has set yourselves up as a was introduced with a financial resource but also a standards board, as you said, Mr Flanagan, where series of Member of Parliament initiatives through are the problems? Perhaps you could also touch on the Education and Library Boards which they the issue about rigorous standards when you have supported. All of the schools have shown this diVerential system that you have across the improvement but in very diVerential ways. One of board. the things that we led the way on was the Mr Clarke: We have got to acknowledge that disapplication of the absolute straitjacket of the standards are improving generally but one of the Northern Ireland curriculum to allow much more things we have to look at is the gap between the flexibility and to allow involvement with further highest and lowest achieving. PISA identified as education and with training organisations as part of characteristics of good and poor education systems what those children experienced. We have raised that those where the diVerential is less tend to be standards in those schools but it is against a good systems and those where the diVerential is wide backdrop of continuing demographic downturn. tend to be poorer systems. Northern Ireland has one There is no history in Northern Ireland of secondary of the widest diVerentials. Within that there have principals being paid more than principals in other been a number of schools taking part in the Raising schools, which was your original question. School Standards initiative and then the Schools Support Programme dating back to the paper which Q61 Chairman: It was, yes! we sent to the department in 1993. There were about Mr Clarke: I am glad I was able to elaborate! ten schools from each Education and Library Board invited each year to participate in those initiatives. The number of schools invited has significantly Q62 Chairman: We have discovered that elaboration declined over the last number of years, which is what is a gift of those who live in Northern Ireland. you would expect when you go through a Ms Martin: Can I come in on that because Jim has programme. There were a number of characteristics. raised an important point: we need to focus on the Donald made the point that schools from the curriculum and we need to see the link between the Catholic sector have tended to be more successful in curriculum and the economy. those initiatives and have sustained their Meg Hillier: I do not want to stop you but I was improvement longer. One of the reasons was the fact particularly asking about the leadership. We are that we used three strategies and in some others attracting very high calibre head teachers. I am not perhaps only one strategy was used. Because these saying people in Northern Ireland are not high initiatives were managed by a board consisting of the calibre but the pay issue has been quite instrumental Education and Library Board and CCMS in that. personnel, and that CCMS do not have a training role in schools, the Education and Library Boards Q63Chairman: Do you need a financial inducement have that role, the Catholic maintained schools in to have people of your quality leading schools, is the initiatives had the benefit of what might be called really the nub of the question. the support dimension from the Education and Ms Martin: Do you want my honest answer? Library Boards and the challenge function from within CCMS which dealt with issues like leadership Q64 Chairman: Yes we do. and the management of the school. The tendency in Ms Martin: My honest answer is that we are the controlled sector, and I say “the tendency” fortunate here in the calibre of our teachers and their because it was not the case everywhere, was that one commitment to our young people, that education individual supported and challenged the school and still is a vocation and that people see the challenge invariably they failed more on the side of support and the opportunity to make life better for our rather than challenge. The third element was young people as suYcient. There is no financial intervention. CCMS has never sacked a principal inducement. We do it because we believe— but we have encouraged people to look at their contribution and their career profile and we have created circumstances where we have been able to Q65 Meg Hillier: How will it compare with a head engage and change management at leadership level. teacher in a big comprehensive in England? That has been very important in securing a change Ms Martin: It would possibly be £30,000 or £40,000 of direction for schools and maintaining that less, but it is about commitment, it is about what change. drives us, and what drives us is the vision of making adiVerence to the lives of the young people who are entrusted to our care. That is a very significant Q67 Chairman: Could I ask you a couple of statement to make but it is one that I passionately questions about selection? You heard this morning believe. a very eloquent defence of academic selection. You Chairman: Thank you very much for that. As a also heard the grammar schools and you have former schoolmaster I am delighted to hear yourself gone out of your way to say you do not want somebody use the word “vocation”. to threaten them. You have heard them say that 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin without that selection the system could not survive Ms Martin: Currently we look at siblings. We look with the qualities that it presently encapsulates, and at the children of members of staV who are parents, you also heard a very eloquent description of a new and then we begin to look at the eldest female child form of computer modelled profiling, Dr Morrison and then we look in a geographical way at our outlining it. Would you like to comment on those hinterland. points, and I address you particularly, if I may, Ms Martin? Q75 Chairman: How over-subscribed are you? Ms Martin: I am happy to respond. I think you only Ms Martin: We are over-subscribed somewhere in got one side of the picture this morning, and the region of 10 pupils per year. We currently have obviously that is why we are here. Can I just quote an intake of 150 and into our Irish-medium that is a you something that I think is very important? This more flexible figure. We have about 30 coming into comes from Costello: “Students tend to perform our Irish-medium so we would have a total intake of better in schools characterised by high expectations, 180 per year. the enjoyment of learning, a strong disciplinary culture and good teacher/student relationships”. I think that is at the heart of what we should be Q76 Chairman: And for that intake you would have debating. The structures and what is there have to be about 200 applications? based around that and not the other way round. Ms Martin: Yes, we would. Secondly, we need to see that the way forward envisages a common curriculum to 14 and that Q77 Chairman: It is not vast over-subscription? choice only becomes operative at 14. That is Ms Martin: No, because the demographic something which again I do not think was addressed downturns that have been spoken of are already a this morning. We have also got to look at the whole reality for many of our schools. notion of partnership with parents. We do not have transfer in Armagh, in St Catherine’s College. Our Q78 Chairman: Having got them there, you talk pupils come to us. They self-select. They are not about the banding. You were very fierce with me selected by the school, so they choose to come to us. when I suggested there might be some form of academic selection within that but how do you Q68 Chairman: Do you stream within the school? determine what is above average and what is special Ms Martin: No, we do not stream; we band. We have need? Presumably you take ability, however you three bands in each year group. We have an above define it, as some form of criterion. average, an average and special needs. Ms Martin: It is one of the elements. It is not the sole determinant but it is one of the elements, obviously based on their performance over seven years in the Q69 Chairman: Based on academic selection? primary sector, looking at their literacy skills and Ms Martin: No. We do not have academic selection. their numeracy skills. The one that perhaps we focus most on is literacy because it is my view, and I know it is a view which would be shared around this table, Q70 Chairman: But how do you band? that if you teach a child to read you are opening up Ms Martin: Based on the Pupil Profile which comes all kinds of possibilities for them. Can I just give you to us from our primary colleagues. a figure and it is a very important figure? 93% of our intake at the end of Key Stage 3 have reached at least Q71 Chairman: How is that profile done? Is it done Level 5 in English. Given the all-ability nature of our along the way that Costello would advocate or along intake, that is a startling figure. That does not fit the lines that Dr Morrison outlined? comfortably any of the statistics you have been Ms Martin: It would be done similar to what is given. That will out-perform the majority of our proposed by Costello. In fact, we are already well grammar schools but that is based on our belief that down the road to being a model for a future literacy is at the heart of what we do in schools. That possibility of a school along the Costello model. is one of the key components that we look at when we are transferring from the primary to the post- primary. Secondly, we have a cross-phase Q72 Lady Hermon: Are you over-subscribed? committee. We are one of the very few schools in the Ms Martin: Yes, we are. north which has a cross-phase committee, where we sit down with our primary colleagues, look at how they give us information, look at how we use that Q73Lady Hermon: How do you say no to those who information, and we feed back twice a year to them self-select and want to come to St Catherine’s? on the placing of their former pupils. Ms Martin: We have to use the admissions criteria which are drawn up for every school and I know at the moment the Department of Education are Q79 Chairman: This all seems to me exemplary but working very hard on drawing up admissions can I touch on another point that you raised? There criteria which can be used in every school. was almost an implicit rebuke of those who gave evidence this morning for not talking about selection at 14 rather than at 11. Would you like to say a little Q74 Sammy Wilson: What are your admissions bit about that? Do you believe that it is necessary at criteria? 14 to have some form of academic selection? 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin
Ms Martin: I believe it is important at 14 to have the Q82 Chairman: Let us give him a chance to answer. element of choice begin to play a part in the dialogue Mr Flanagan: There are very few parents in Armagh that happens between the students and their tutors, who would be critical of the system. The only people their year heads and the parents. That triangle really who are critical of the system in Armagh are those begins to play a significant part at 14. In terms of parents of boys who have not got the same privilege that choice, it has to be much more informed than it for their boys as they have for their girls. That is a currently is, and it has to be real choice. Therefore, fact. Similarly, in other areas, such as St Patrick’s, our schools, in order to provide the kind of choice Keady, in south Armagh, where there is no selection, that I am talking about, have to expand the options very few parents in that particular area leave that that they currently oVer post-14. area to have their children educated. When we undertook a major reorganisation in Strabane we met with everybody in that town over a period of four days. We had 31 objections out of a total Q80 Chairman: And presumably the rigour of the population of over 2,000 children to that particular tests that they apply? proposal. Ms Martin: I am not talking about testing in terms of choice here. I am talking about young people in Q83Sammy Wilson: You are keeping a grammar the first three years of their post-primary education school element in the Strabane amalgamation of being schooled to enable them to begin to see a schools. general direction in which their life might go. Mr Flanagan: We did not ever say that we would not. We have never ever said within CCMS that we wanted to get rid of grammar schools. We want to Q81 Chairman: But there has to be some form of build on the very best of schools. Our grammar testing of ability presumably, however you do it. schools have done an excellent job. Our post- Y Ms Martin: That currently happens at the end of primary secondary schools in a amore di cult Key Stage 3 in any case. I do not necessarily see that situation have done an outstanding job, and our as the most important factor in determining the primary schools overall have done an extraordinary job. We have a very good system of education in choices that the young people will make. I think we Northern Ireland where parents buy in very highly have to look much more closely at the kind of diet to that particular system of schools. In any area that our schools make available post-14. That is why where we have been involved in reorganisation there I would be supporting the whole notion of the has been a high level of parental support and vocational courses having parity of esteem with our commitment to that particular project. Our process current perhaps more traditional courses. in terms of finding the way forward in relation to Sammy Wilson: Donal, I am glad to hear that your post-primary reform is first and foremost to address representatives have talked about not changing communities. We have not sought and we will not particular schools or types of school systems. We seek to go out with answers to everyone. We will find would be interested at some other stage to hear their the answers which local people will support. response to RPA which I think contradicts that statement on the changes under the administration Q84 Sammy Wilson: All of them to date have either and the role for CCMS, but we will come to that included, in the case of Armagh, amalgamating the maybe another day with the representatives from secondary school with the grammar school so the CCMS. Can I come back to your test of a good grammar school is kept or, as in Strabane, having a system, one of the things I would have assumed must grammar school element. have the confidence of the people it is going to serve? Mr Flanagan: Is there something wrong with that? All of the indications so far, both in the actions which you have taken in CCMS and in the surveys Q85 Sammy Wilson: No, but the Costello proposals done by the Government, a survey which over a are designed to destroy any element of selection. Can quarter of a million people responded to, are that you tell me then how you keep the ethos of a school 66% of parents and teachers have opposed the which has got an academic thrust to it if you do not Costello changes. Indeed, we heard from Mr Young in some way have some indicator of a person’s this morning that many Catholic parents are opting, academic ability? because they want a grammar school education, to Mr Clarke: Every school has an academic ethos. go to Methody, Inst, BRA, all of which have got What we are saying is that how we interpret that over 30% of their school population as Catholics needs to be broadened for the 21st century. What we even though they are perceived as Protestant do not need is a narrowness based on what was good schools. Indeed, I noticed that when you talked in the past and I think we have to recognise that the about the amalgamation in Armagh you did not grammar school system was good at its time. It did amalgamate the grammar school with the secondary create opportunities but it has now created further school; you amalgamated the secondary school with social diVerentiation in Northern Ireland. Some the grammar school, which may well explain why people would claim that the latter has been pulled up people did not feel short-changed by the and some communities have lost out in that process. amalgamation, by the way. You have talked about You personally have spoken to us about the choice and you have talked about the sovereignty of opportunity that the transfer gave to some children parents. How do you answer that? in areas that you know well, and we accept that, but 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin we ask the question: what about those for whom the Ms Martin: We can all bandy words around, transfer did not provide that opportunity? What are Sammy. St Catherine’s College was created from they left with? What we are saying is that everyone two schools. One was not grafted on to the other. It has abilities. What we have to do is harness those was a new entity which had as its earlier antecedents abilities and build on the strengths. There is nothing a convent grammar school and a convent in Costello, nor is there anything in any proposal intermediate school. It was a new entity and there that CCMS have made, to diminish the academic. was no sense that one was grafted on to the other. What we are saying is that we should expand and New entity, new uniform, new ethos and meeting the include and allow some of those children deemed to needs of all the girls in the Armagh area. It was not be academic to extend and have options the same as a crafty move to gain friends because St Catherine’s everyone else to areas that are vocational, which will College had very few friends in the 1970s, both be motivating to them as individuals. I think it is within the Catholic sector and without. That has worth noting that research carried out by NFERbeen a long hard road. (the National Foundation for Educational Mr Flanagan: Part and parcel of our consultation Research) on behalf of the Council for Curriculum and the basic principle that we are building into all and Assessment, which was a cohort study following the consultations is that we seem to copper fasten for children in all sectors of education through their every parent a pathway that they wish for their time at school and asking them what the experience children through the education system, be that they had was, found that it was a very negative academic, be it vocational, be it technical or be it a experience in the majority of cases. They talked number of those. What we want to do is provide the about a curriculum which was overloaded with range of choice and access to all young people to knowledge and content and very little on practical achieve that, and I think we can accommodate that. learning. They talked about subjects which motivated and interested them not being supported Q87 Chairman: So you wish to keep the grammar because they were not deemed to be academic in schools but you just wish to change slightly the way certain schools. They talked about the fact that the they get into them? Is that right? learning experience was limiting in many respects. Mr Clarke: We are using language here which is To be fair, some of them, on reflection, once they imposed. We are talking about grammar schools had seen the benefits of their education system, were and I think we need a definition of what a grammar slightly more positive about it, but that was the school is. If we are talking about schools which select experience at the time and I think we have to pupils on the basis of academic ability we are not recognise that. wishing to retain that system. We want to remove Ms Martin: Sammy, just to respond to you, this is selection. We want to build schools which are not about the death knell of the grammar system in inclusive and which are high quality in every aspect the north of Ireland; this is about focusing on the and which will cater for the needs of all kinds of 21st century and providing schools which meet the children. We need to bear in mind that there has needs of the 21st century. From all the research that been significant research over the last 15 years which we have, and we can all quote research until the cows has taught all of us in education an awful lot more come home, it is clear that our education system about how individuals learn and that is something does not meet the needs of the 21st century. We have we need to reflect in our education system, not just got to make changes. That is the first point. The structurally but very specifically within classrooms. second point is that we have to value all of our young Mr Flanagan: One of the most distinguishing people equally. The history of our education system features of our grammar schools is the level of over the last 50 years has shown that, sadly, we have autonomy they hold. Some of our grammar schools not done that. The challenge for us is to find a way would say that that principle of autonomy is much forward to enable all of our young people to be more important to them than the principle of valued equally in schools which are focused on high academic ability. In our proposals we will bring levels of attainment for everyone. forward schools’ situations which have the same Chairman: You were trying to get my eye. levels of autonomy as the voluntary grammar sector. Dr McDonnell: I am generally happy enough. The point I was trying to make earlier was to probe the Q88 Rosie Cooper: Returning to your method of question of grammar schools. Your intention is not selection, or not selection in your case, in schools— to damage grammar schools. I think that has been Ms Martin: Our intake. clarified. Chairman: Can you tell us, therefore, if that is your intention, how you can carry that intention into Q89 Rosie Cooper:— you talked about banding and eVect on the basis of Costello? you said you did that based on the Pupil Profile. Is the Pupil Profile that Costello talks about exactly the system you use? Q86 Dr McDonnell: And the second point I might Ms Martin: No. It would be similar. I think the address to Margaret is the other side of Sammy’s proposed Pupil Profile will expand what we question, Chairman, about amalgamating the currently do. It is the notion that education is a secondary school into the grammar school, with continuum from five through, in most instances maybe some reference to St Patrick’s in Keady, now, to 18. For far too long in our system we closed which was a secondary school but which now is a door at 11 and said that whatever you did in those excelling. seven years no longer mattered. It is building the 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin whole notion of the continuum, building on their areas which can be improved upon and to identify strengths, building on their interests, so that when those areas of strength which can be built upon. We the boy or girl arrives with us we have a sense of their need to be clear as to the purpose of the Pupil Profile. strengths, we have a sense of the areas where we need to concentrate, so that we have a picture of their Q93Lady Hermon: Would you not accept that in needs and are better placed to meet those needs. fact pupil profiling will expose teachers to influence from angry parents and put a lot of pressure on teachers? How do they feel about that sort of Q90 Rosie Cooper: Will that profile be available in pressure? total to the secondary school and will there be any Mr Clarke: First of all, I think it is important to great impact on the primary schools in the recognise that any good teacher assesses and in my production of it? experience teachers are very good at assessing. Ms Martin: Yes. I think we are going to have to build However, if we introduce a high stakes element to it much more on the notion of trust and partnership where parents’ pressures impose themselves upon between the primary and the post-primary in the children for the purpose of getting them into one sense that under the old system primary schools were school or another, then you will find teachers not quite reluctant to be seen as making the decision as wanting to play that game, but if the focus is on the to where a young person was going to go for their child and identifying what is best for the child post-primary education. If we have schools which without the intrusion of this instrument for selective are deemed to be equal then I think the notion of the purposes, I think teachers will be in a much stronger transfer of information will be easier. position to make honest assessments. It is not about pleasing parents. It is about meeting the needs of Q91 Chairman: Do you see a place for the children. computerised testing that Dr Morrison talked about? You did not answer the question earlier. Q94 Sammy Wilson: I am not sure you have Ms Martin: The answer is no. answered the question. Mr Clarke: I think we would say this is a matter for the schools themselves. Let us be clear about it. The Q92 Chairman: You do not like it? Key Stage 3 curriculum is a common curriculum as Ms Martin: No, I do not like it. I think it is it currently is. It will not change. The choice element cumbersome. I think it will add to work and I see no is going to be in the 14–19 range. In terms of place for it. I think this is about dialogue, this is choosing a school what parents need to be mindful about transfer of information. It is not about putting of is not the curriculum that is on oVer at Key Stage in any other kind of a test which is going in some way 3 but the opportunities that that school, in to hinder the learning which takes place in the association with other schools or by itself, can oVer primary sector. their child at 14 and 16. Mr Clarke: Can I make a comment on this? I saw it Mr Flanagan: Can I make a comment in terms of in the presentation, that there is a fair degree of Lady Herman’s question? As a former primary misrepresentation and misunderstanding of the school teacher and former primary school head, I Pupil Profile. First of all, it was not created by was in the position of dialoguing with parents over Costello. It was something that the Department of a period of time essentially from about P4 right Education had asked the Exams Council to work on through to P7 in relation to their child’s abilities, and alongside Costello. The second thing is that the in some cases lack of ability, or their strengths and Pupil Profile will be with the child throughout their weaknesses, etc. I have found in all my experience as education. It was not specifically intended to be an an educator that there are very few parents who do instrument to replace transfer at 11. It was there to not have a complete understanding of their assist the process in a non-selective environment. children’s ability and what they wish for their Much of Dr Morrison’s work seems to be about high children. What we have created in the system in stakes testing. I have no diYculty with all of his Northern Ireland is the notion that one school is assumptions and assertions about reliability and all better than the other and obviously every parent, the rest of it. We are into a situation where we are not when faced with that scenario, will always seek to do into high stakes testing. The focus through the Pupil what they believe to be best for their children. Profile is assessment for learning as opposed to assessment of learning. The intention was that it Q95 Rosie Cooper: Would this Pupil Profile be should guide both the pupil (in so far as in primary available to the parents at all times? school the pupil can be guided), the parent and the Mr Flanagan: Yes. teacher. It was very much a diagnostic element. I believe that the Pupil Profile can contain evidence Q96 Rosie Cooper: Do you think that would based on a range of testing regimes, including influence what the teachers would write down and computer-based testing which, as Mr Young we would get into that culture of— acknowledged, is a diagnostic. In the context of Mr Clarke: One of the characteristics of the Pupil learning for assessment the diagnostic test has a role Profile is that it is a combination of a range of testing but it is not a summative test. It is information that regimes and assessment regimes that are focused on can be used by teachers and by parents to plot the academic areas. It is also about other areas of educational direction of the child to identify those personal and social development that the child 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin would engage in. It is intended to give a rounded consortium. It puts constraints on us, obviously. picture. Part of the plus side in my view of the Pupil The timetabling demands a lot of liaison. It is Profile is that it is going to involve the parent much possible and it is feasible and in the last number of more in the discussion of their child’s education. The years we have expanded that further into the links challenge for that, if I could pick up some of the that we have with Armagh College of Further strands from earlier, is that that gives the middle- Education, so we already have those collaborative class parent an advantage, but it only gives an links well established. In addition to that, bearing in advantage if you have a selective system. What we mind that I think education has a role to play in want to do is encourage parents to become more healing some of the social and religious divisions involved in the education of their child throughout, that we have in our community, we have very strong not at the age of 10 going to 11 but very much so at links with Armagh Royal School and also with the every stage and particularly as they reach the real City of Armagh High School. All of those are very decision points at 14 and 16. We also have to significant. recognise that a Pupil Profile in the early years of primary education in the foundation stage is very Q99 Gordon Banks: When you talk about the links much a document between the parent and the with further education, is it one-way traYc? teacher. As the child grows through age 14 into 16 it Ms Martin: At the moment, yes, it is one-way traYc, becomes more of a dialogue between the student, the which I say with regret. We go to them. As yet they teacher and the parent. We have to involve parents do not come to us. That is another stage in the and it is about transparency but it is not about development that I would like to see happen. absolutes. With respect to the argument in Dr Morrison’s paper about levels, levels were never Q100 Sammy Wilson: You talk about the sixth form intended to be absolute. They were never supposed level. How many people would be involved in to be reliable in the academic sense that Dr Morrison moving from one school to another currently within refers to them. They were intended to draw evidence your system? on performance in literacy, in numeracy, from a Ms Martin: You mean in our consortium wide range of sources, some of which were quite arrangements with St Patrick’s Grammar School? clear testing regimes. Q101 Sammy Wilson: How many pupils would be Q97 Gordon Banks: Margaret Martin, you involved in that? mentioned the student situation you have. I would Ms Martin: We are talking of between 20 and 30. be interested to hear what movement there is between streams. Q102 Sammy Wilson: Is that not significant? What Ms Martin: I am very glad you asked me that; it is Costello was talking about was perhaps a very important. As I said, we have above average, consortium which would have to facilitate up to 27 average and special needs. The partnership I spoke subjects where from GCSE level onwards you would of between school and home is one that we value so have maybe that movement. It is one thing to that at every stage in Key Stage 3, which is a three- manage 20 pupils out of your 1,050, but is it not year cycle, we will sit down and look at the another thing to manage a consortium arrangement placement of our pupils. If we find that the level of which involves people moving from GCSE right maturity has brought about a significant through to A-level and having to spend a third of progression then we will take the opportunity to their time probably out of school? move that pupil so that there is tremendous Ms Martin: My colleague is very keen to come in on flexibility built into our system. That is why we do that. Currently we have almost 27 subjects at sixth not stream, we band, so that we have parallel bands form level in any case. and that ensures that we have competition, which I think is essential, and we do not have mixed ability Q103Sammy Wilson: Yes, but you are a large school but that, as young people mature and as very often and in many rural areas you are not going to have they take a leap forward, we can move within our that. In fact, you are going to have maybe more than banding system in order to support their own third of the subjects having to be taught in other progression. Yes, that does happen and we will do schools. that at the end of every year and very significantly, Mr Clarke: Can I, as an aside to Gordon Banks, say obviously, at the end of Key Stage 3. that in my experience in north Belfast we did bring the FE college in to deliver in the school at Key Stage Q98 Gordon Banks: My other question is about the 4 and there are other schools that do that. Sammy is collaborative arrangements. I have long been a right, but really what he is hitting at here is the issue supporter of collaboration in education systems, of demographics as well as the practicalities of especially involving further education colleges, but organising schools. One of the things which has what do you think are the practical diYculties and bedevilled this post-primary debate is the notion disruptions that might come about from trying to that every school will stay the same. The fact is that collaborate between school and further education? demographics are kicking in here big time and, while Ms Martin: We have a history of this. Since 1985 we the previous group may have wished to challenge have been involved in collaboration with what were that, even if they are right a little bit the simple fact originally the two boys’ grammar schools. We have of life is that we are losing 10% of the 2002 enrolment a three-way system going there for a sixth form by 2010; by 2015 we are down 16% and by 2041 we 3249641001 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 22 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin are down 26%. That is a quarter of the entire school- Mr Clarke: It depends. On the model that we are going population at the age of 11–16. Even if we proposing we believe that the choice element is have got it a percentage or two wrong we are into internal and that, while you might have an element significant demographic downturn. We are not in of specialism within one part of the school, you can the business of closing schools, nor are we in the supplement that, as is the case in England, with a business of keeping schools open where children are much broader education. Let us be clear: in England not accessing choice which is motivating to them. specialism accounts for only about 10% of the You will see in St Gabriel’s and some other schools curriculum and the mechanism to provide a means that there are choices of maybe one or two subjects of children choosing that is one of the complicating post-14. That is the reality. You are right that people factors of the admissions criteria debate in England. moving from one area to another is not necessarily We do not believe that it is necessary to have that the way that all these arrangements can be delivered. complication. We believe that the specialism should I have enclosed with your papers Appendix 7, Sir respond to the market need in a particular area. Patrick, which identifies at one point theoretical Indeed, part of our thinking in terms of how schools delivery models which include (I have put them into are funded is about maybe having elements which five diVerent groups) a single 11–19 school on a allow areas, particularly newly developed curricular single site, a single managed school on several sites areas, to be promoted within the formula. with options for 11–14, 14–19 and all kinds of collaborations in between. I have also suggested Q106 Lady Hermon: How would you describe the models which look at some schools specialising in relationship between CCMS and the Department of whatever area is agreed with the group within the Education? Is it a good working relationship? Is it a particular area, and we have also looked at other close working relationship? more imaginative models which would include Mr Flanagan: I had better say it is a good working things like seven to 14, or four to 14 models of relationship. It is a good working relationship. It is various federations, and part of that is to reflect both in no-one’s interest to have anything other than that the demographics and the fact that Northern Ireland it is a good working relationship. There is challenge, is a rural community. One of the issues which we there is debate. We do not always agree. Sometimes addressed in Costello was the fact that a child living the department convince us of the error of our ways in Beleek, Fermanagh, was entitled to have the same and vice versa. It is very much part of the centralised/ access to choice as a child living in Belfast. That is localised dimension. We have been involved with the essentially the underpinning logic of the 24 and 27. department and with the Education and Library Also within the 24 and 27 there is the notion that one Boards for a long period of time and in every area third should be copper-fastened academic, one third that we work in to find post-primary solutions we should be copper-fastened vocational, and that was will involve the Education and Library Board, we will involve NICIE, we will involve CNED, we will to respond to the needs of individual children to involve the voluntary grammar and the FE sector have an education which motivated them. because they all have a voice in there. Chairman: And what about very special children? Q107 Lady Hermon: Specifically, if I could narrow it Q104 Mr Hepburn: What benefits or otherwise do down to the response on the Costello Report, and I you think specialist schools can bring to the ask that particularly because the previous set of education system, bearing in mind that a specialist witnesses gave a very clear indication to the school does entail an element of selection? committee that they had not had a welcome on the Mr Clarke: We in CCMS have not supported the mat from the Department of Education when they specialist schools project which is currently being had asked for meetings, has it been the opposite run in Northern Ireland, largely because we saw it for CCMS? built on an English model which was primarily a Mr Flanagan: No, it has not been the opposite for school improvement model. However, we do see the CCMS, and CCMS has struggled more than any logic of specialisms emerging within schools but other body in Northern Ireland to get the funding those specialisms we believe need to be drawn by that it needs to do the work. that particularly community and they need to be part of the system which is reflecting the economic Q108 Chairman: The question is not about funds. profile of that area, or at least the aspiring economic Mr Flanagan: The question is about relationship. profile of that area. We would not necessarily feel The word that we get back from the department that we should be predetermining what the repeatedly over the years, and this is our real specialism is and the way forward. We believe that a criticism of how we operate in Northern Ireland, is local discussion needs to take place to identify what that presentationally it has been diYcult to allow areas of specialism would interest the pupils, would CCMS to grow. interest the schools in terms of delivery, and would Mr Clarke: We have had significant diYculties with interest the employers in terms of supporting them. the Department of Education. We have had this now since 26 January 2003. The amount of progress that we have made on implementing Costello in our view Q105 Mr Hepburn: What about the question of is not satisfactory. We believe that communication selection, because obviously it entails an element of of information strategy has been lacking and we selection? have made this point to the department on a number 3249641001 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 23
28 November 2005 Mr Donal Flanagan, Mr Jim Clarke and Ms Margaret Martin of occasions. We have had much more diYculty next three years. The post-primary review is already getting meetings with ministers than the GBA, under way and should continue apace. Structures particularly in relation to the previous Minister, have a great habit of, if you like, dissipating energies where the GBA seemed to have ready access to the because people begin to look at their own future and Minister. We have been very frustrated in our their own jobs. There is a job in education. We have relationship with the department and very frustrated said to the Department of Education that that is our in encouraging the department to work on the policy agenda and we will wish to continue with this even which is government policy. We continue to have though the RPA will attract some of our energies that experience today. over this period of time. Chairman: We are going to draw this to a close now Q109 Lady Hermon: Even with the present Minister? because we are going to visit some schools and we Mr Clarke: I think the present Minister has at least will be visiting a school of which you used to be made a very clear statement that selection is ending. head. We have not been absolutely certain of that until Thank you very much indeed for your evidence. three or four weeks ago when the Secretary of State You, Margaret Martin, clearly are head of a school made the comment and I think that is significant. that we really ought to try and visit at some stage and I would welcome that opportunity personally and I am sure colleagues would. Q110 Chairman: It is not an announcement that Lady Hermon: It is a very good girls’ school. would be welcome in every quarter, of course. Chairman: We are aware it is a girls’ school. You see, Mr Clarke: But it is government policy. I even get heckled by members of the committee. We are very grateful to you. Could I make the same Q111 Meg Hillier: The Review of Public point that I made to witnesses earlier this morning, Administration was naming the new proposals last that if there are any points you wish to amplify if week. I was wondering if you had a quick comment there is anything that you feel we should have asked about how you felt the proposed single education you about please let our Clerk know and we will take board would make a diVerence to the future of everything into account. We are seeing the Minister education in Northern Ireland. It is something on 14 December so it would be helpful to have any which we should have asked our previous witnesses. additional submissions fairly sharply, but if you Mr Flanagan: I suppose if ever there was a time for could do that we would be grateful. You will, of it to come this would not be the right time because course, be receiving a transcript of your evidence there are two major changes of agenda on the books. and if you have any corrections to make please let One is in terms of the new curricular change and the our Clerk know and that evidence will in due course second one is post-primary review. We cannot set be published. Thank you very much indeed. everything aside and wait to get the structures in place before we can move forward with these. The new curriculum needs to be embedded within the 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 24 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
Afternoon Session
Members present:
Sir Patrick Cormack, in the Chair
Mr David Anderson Meg Hillier Gordon Banks Dr Alasdair McDonnell Rosie Cooper Stephen Pound Mr Stephen Hepburn Sammy Wilson Lady Hermon
Written evidence from the East Belfast Partnership and Greater Shankill Partnership is printed on page Ev 71
Witnesses: Ms Maggie Andrews and Mr Sammy Douglas, East Belfast Partnership, Mr Jackie Redpath, Greater Shankill Partnership, and Mr John McVicar, Greater Shankill Community Council, gave evidence.
Q112 Chairman: May I welcome you. It is very good events of the last weekend. We are here to put a very of you to come and give evidence which, as you will particular point of view to this committee today appreciate, is being taken down because this is a because we know you are hearing from the good and public session. You will receive the transcript and be the great and from various lobbies. We are here at able to make any corrections, should there be any your invite, and we thank you for that, to say to you inaccuracies, and the evidence will in due course be that while Northern Ireland has among the very best published. Just to set the background to today’s academic performance in the whole of the United sessions, we received a joint letter about six weeks Kingdom it also has some of the worst and it is that ago from the Headmaster of the Belfast Royal which we would like to address today. It has among Academy and a number of his colleagues asking us the worst performers in terms of the achievement of if we would consider their submission and be five GCSEs at grade C or above and in other figures prepared to see them. We felt it was right, as they we have given you. We are talking about a were saying some important things, that they should phenomenon that is common throughout the United indeed be seen and listened to, but we equally felt it Kingdom, which is a working class phenomenon. right that if we were going to do that we should We want to emphasise that this is not coming from expand the session and invite other potentially some sort of sectarian point of view but we believe interested parties. This morning we saw the Council the figures we have submitted to you confirm that for Catholic Maintained Schools, we are seeing you not only have we the best figures in the UK and the and the Heads and a former Head of Belfast worst figures in the UK, but that the worst of the maintained schools this afternoon, and we are seeing worst are amongst the Protestant working class some people in Londonderry tomorrow. Ms communities and our focus is particularly here on Andrews, would you introduce your colleagues and, Belfast. I believe it is wider but we are focusing on if you wish to make an opening statement before we Belfast. In terms of an analysis of why this has begin asking questions, that would be entirely in happened (and I do not want to go into the order? statistics), our view would be that we have an issue Ms Andrews: It looks like I have been nominated in terms of the value placed on education in working temporarily. class Protestant communities as distinct from working class Catholic communities. That analysis Q113Chairman: I do not quarrel over leadership. we would say comes historically from the That is what we do in Parliament! communities that we come from in East Belfast and Mr Redpath: Sir Patrick, I have spent most of my life the Shankill, that in the past people from those deferring to Maggie, so I am happy to do so again communities had access to skilled trades in terms of and ask her to introduce us. the shipyard or engineering or wherever. That is a Ms Andrews: This is Sammy Douglas from East number of generations ago and as a result you did Belfast Partnership. I work as Partnership Manager not actually need the qualifications to get into those with East Belfast Partnership. Jackie Redpath is trades. If we take it as read that we have a particular from Greater Shankill Partnership and John and peculiar problem in the Protestant working class McVicar from Greater Shankill Community communities, and our passion lies in dealing with Council. this in terms of education, and if we take it that there is some analysis of why this has happened, what we Q114 Chairman: Thank you very much indeed. We need to do is move on to the solutions. The big issues are aware of the fact that you do very valuable work. that your committee is addressing in terms of the Do you wish to say anything by way of introduction reorganisation of education post-Costello and all of before we ask questions? that are of vital importance. Issues around selection Mr Redpath: We would like to if you would allow us at 11 are of vital importance. What we fear is that the opportunity to do so. On this day it is good to see those issues will bypass the particular and peculiar somebody called Gordon Banks here, given the problem that we face in Protestant working class 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 25
28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar communities. We also fear that submissions that you Q116 Chairman: Did you go? may receive will be from a very professional Mr Douglas: Yes, I did. educational corner and it is quite right that the schools and school principals and those that are in the whole educational arena will present to you Q117 Chairman: And did you get your degree? solutions to our overall problems from their point of Mr Douglas: I am actually doing my Masters degree view. What we want to say is that, unless it is at the moment before I retire. recognised that parents are a child’s first educator (and quite possibly a child’s best educator), in other Q118 Chairman: Well done! That is excellent. That words, unless more than lip service is paid to that is very heartening news. Before I call Meg Hillier to and our communities can rally round in terms of start the questioning can I clarify one point? Jane having a campaign for education that will involve Kennedy promised you education action zones, parents, grandparents and the whole community in speaking in her role as Minister for Education here, support of our children and our schools, then the and that was three years ago, 2002? schools on their own will not be able to resolve the Mr Douglas: Three and a half years ago. problems that we face. It is for that partnership and resourcing that partnership in a real way that we are here to argue. I will finish by saying that this was Q119 Chairman: And nothing has happened at all? recognised by a former Minister of Education here Mr Redpath: We suspect not. We would like to three years ago, Jane Kennedy, who recognised the know. peculiar problems that we have in Protestant Chairman: We will certainly be asking her successor, working class communities, when she established in I promise you that, and the Clerk is making a note an announcement the creation of education action even as I speak. That will be one of the very first zones which, if you take out how they have questions we will ask Angela Smith when she comes happened in Great Britain and look at what they before us. You are welcome to come and listen to the might be, would have put a line round certain areas evidence if you want to but you will be sent a copy that we are talking about, enabling us to break the of the transcript, I promise you. formula that has applied throughout Northern Ireland to middle class areas as well as to working class areas, and enabling us to do certain things Q120 Meg Hillier: Thank you very much for coming within that. Those education action zones we have and thank you for your submission which was very heard no more about. They were government policy, interesting for me. We have quizzed other witnesses they were announced, they were to happen. We about the issues around social deprivation and would like to know where they have gone because academic achievement, and you link background the four of us sitting here feel that they may have with educational achievement. Could you tease out V provided a context in which we could have gone on for us why you think there may be di erences in the to resolve the particular and (I repeat again) peculiar performance of pupils in maintained secondary as problems that we have in Protestant working class opposed to controlled secondary schools? Is there communities. We need to address this for the health any link there with social background, do you think? of society here. The health of one community is the Mr Redpath: I hope that the paper we submitted first V health of all communities and that is why we are of all establishes that there is a di erence and then challenged about this. what we need to move on to is analysing why there is a diVerence. There is a whole range of reasons for this. If you take the fact that we have got these Q115 Chairman: Thank you for that. Thank you diVerent systems here in Northern Ireland, over a also for what you do. I appreciate that the work you number of generations the Catholic community had do is both diYcult and important. It is appreciated their own system of education. It was interesting last and I want you all to know that. Do any of your week when the whole question of all the colleagues wish to add anything to that submission? contradictions across this came up in terms of Mr Douglas: It is very hard to be a parent, CCMS, which I assume you are au fait with. There particularly in these areas where we are experiencing were a lot of people from the Catholic community these diYculties. Let me give you one example that that leapt to the defence of CCMS. I can understand would copper-fasten what my colleague Jackie has why. It was their system of education. I give myself said in terms of not valuing education. I left school away here as my background being from a without any qualifications whatsoever. In 1990 I Protestant community when I say “their system of decided to embark on an access degree course. My education”. We did not have a Protestant system of father, who worked in a shipyard all his life, said to education. We had a state system of education. I me, “What are you doing going to university at your think at one level there was a greater sense of age?”, because for him and his generation people belonging for the Catholic community than from went into apprenticeships for skilled jobs so they did our community but there is a deeper thing here as not need those sorts of qualifications. The other well, which Sammy was describing, and that was thing to emphasise is that we are not educationalists. that in the past from my community in the Shankill We are people who work in the community trying to and from East Belfast community the greatest thing do the best we can, but I agree with Jackie that this that you wanted for your son, because it was quite has to be a partnership arrangement between all the sexist then, was that he would get an apprenticeship stakeholders. in shipbuilding or in engineering in Mackie’s or 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 26 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar wherever. Your uncle or your father or whoever got Q124 Chairman: Just to clarify something, I got a you in and that was also common to Glasgow and slightly diVerent impression from my colleague, and Liverpool and other British cities. certainly we have just come from the Belfast Royal Academy where some of us went over lunch to visit the school and meet people, and there I was given Q121 Lady Hermon: What happened to the girls? quite impressive statistics both of the collective Mr Redpath: We may come on to that but that was number from socially deprived areas who were the greatest aspiration you had for your son. You attending that school and of the individual did not need a qualification; you just needed an entry achievements of some of the real champions, for to get that through your parents or through your example, one girl with five As and studying medicine relations. That being the case, I feel that we did not at university, but are you saying that this is very place the same emphasis on the importance of much an isolated example still or that there truly are education because we did not need it. In terms of the quite a number? girls in the past in working class Protestant Mr McVicar: There is probably a significant communities, you just hoped they got married and increase compared to the comments that have been had children and got a house close to you. made previously in previous years.
Q125 Chairman: There is a long way to go. Q122 Lady Hermon: The reason I ask is that I grew Mr McVicar: There is a long way to go. up on a 50-acre farm in County Tyrone. I was one of Chairman: We just want to reflect that as accurately four girls and my father had this great emphasis on as possible. education, that in fact we were all to be educated. I am just curious in an urban area like Belfast what the Q126 Sammy Wilson: Can Jackie possibly tell us out tradition was for girls. of how many children the 10 or the 13 were drawn in Ms Andrews: I grew up in the part of the city I work 1988 and 1989? How many children roughly would in at the moment with communities, and certainly you have? Four hundred, 500? my parents really valued education because it was Mr Redpath: Yes, 450. the key that unlocked the door to opportunity. I just think that that was possibly even more common in Q127 Chairman: Do you know what the number the fifties and early sixties than it is now, because the would be now or not? gulf appears to me to have become wider between Mr Redpath: It is not dramatically diVerent. You the sorts of communities I work in now, which is might double it and say it is 22 but it is round about where I grew up, and the aspirations around that figure. education. There certainly is a whole raft of people in Protestant working class communities who do not see education as an opportunity in the way in which Q128 Meg Hillier: Perhaps I might reflect on this your father and my father would have done in the outside the Northern Ireland context for a moment. I think we recognise across the UK, certainly in my past. own constituency and neighbouring constituencies in inner London, that white working class boys are Q123Meg Hillier: In earlier sessions we had among the worst performing pupils at school. There V witnesses from diVerent camps but from the is a di erence, depending on background, and you V grammar school sector they were saying that they can break it down and see by di erent ethnicity in felt that fewer people from the Shankill area and London in a way that is not appropriate in Northern others felt that grammar school education was for Ireland. It is not so much about the sectarian side of them. Would you say that that is a true assumption things; it is about other issues. I wanted to tease out why you think this might be and how the system today? Some of these things are diYcult to pin down might be made to help. You talked about parents but that is what they seemed to be suggesting. being the first role model and you also touched on Mr Redpath: You surely are dragging me into a education action zones. We have seen some of the discussion I did not want to get into. I failed the 11- successes of Sure Start, not just in boosting under- plus in terms of selection. Grammar school fives but also in boosting parental confidence. Are education was never really an option for people from there any measures you think that in the long run the the Shankill and we had 10 children in 1988 and 13 Government should be taking in Northern Ireland in 1989 who managed to make it to grammar school. to help boost parents’ confidence in education? What we are trying to say is that that is not our Ms Andrews: We do have Sure Start in parts of debate but if somebody said that they did not feel it Belfast It is probably not as extensive as we would was for them, they did not feel it was for them want it to be. That is one of the key problems that because they were debarred from it by a selection would be identified by a primary school principal, process, but I just want to emphasise, and I am that her young children are arriving at school with giving full cognisance to Sammy Wilson sitting here, very poor language skills and they are pretty key to that that is not what we are here about because doing moving on. We have had initiatives like what we call away with selection or not is not important to me. In the enriched curriculum. We have had lots of good terms of our case, whether it is done away with or not opportunities to try and make a diVerence but our is not going to answer the particular and peculiar main diYculty is that they are not consistent. They problem we have got. do not last long enough. They are not in position 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 27
28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar long enough to influence a whole cohort of young community perspective. Those of us in the people as they proceed from Primary 1 right through community would not say that we have all the to secondary level. I think that is one of our biggest answers but we are part of a partnership that needs diYculties, working with community organisations to tackle this problem. and with parents in communities, that constant battle to try and have good practice maintained. I Q129 Mr Anderson: In terms of what is on the table am sure that is experienced by schools as well in at the moment, which is the Costello proposals, what terms of management. Just to comment on is your view if that goes through? Would that be something that was mentioned earlier, one of our better or worse or the same to the people you are diYculties in Protestant communities particularly, working with? and it has been well documented across things other Mr Redpath: I would have to say that is not what we than education but in terms of the way communities are here to talk about and we do not have a view have developed, is that they traditionally have a very on it. weak infrastructure. It is in their nature to be more individualist and less collective in terms of how Q130 Chairman: I would appreciate it if you did, and things are done, so we do have that additional so would my colleagues, because this is what sparked challenge of getting people involved at community oV this series of evidence-taking sessions. There is level and then getting them involved with schools. this highly contentious series of proposals, the nub Mr McVicar: One of the things that we do, just to of which is the abolition of selection. We have been reinforce the comments that Maggie has made, is hearing evidence this morning from one group of acknowledge that we need to have an acceptance or people who say, “We want to abolish selection as it a realisation that we do have a problem, that would exists at the moment but we feel we have to retain a be the first step, and that it is a significant problem. form of selection. Otherwise all the wonderful Jackie and I have the distinguishing connection that schools”—and you talked about them in your in 1979 we were both physically laughed out of the opening sentences—“will be in jeopardy”. What we board room of the Belfast Education and Library would like to know from you, and this is why I must Board. I have served two terms on the board and am defend my colleague’s question, is that you have this just moving into my third term and there was a sense commitment to particularly socially deprived parts of de´ja` vu as I walked out through the door for the of Belfast, is this. Do you believe that the first time, but in 1979 both Jackie and I were implementation of these proposals will be better or involved in YOP and YTP. Very quickly we realised worse in the context of your desire for wider, better that the 16-year olds who were coming onto that education for those people? Will the implementation scheme had serious diYculties in terms of their of those proposals make the situation potentially reading and writing skills. We went to the Education better or potentially worse? and Library Board, not with a view to pointing a Mr Redpath: In terms of a formal response, finger and saying, “It is your fault” We went to them Chairman, it is genuinely a discussion that we do not to say, “It is a problem. How can we work together? want to get drawn into. Those wonderful schools How do we resolve this?”. The interesting thing is that you describe are not in numbers accessible to that Carmel Hanna, who was Minister, I think, for the children of the areas we are coming from. The the Department of Education and Learning just reason I am saying we do not want to get drawn into prior to the Assembly breaking up, released that is in order to emphasise the point that whatever somewhere in the region of eight or nine million happens it is not going to deal with the problem that pounds of public money to tackle problems in adult we are talking about. There may be, in respect to a literacy in the 40-plus age bracket. If someone had question being asked, individual views that people done something other than show Jackie Redpath may want to express but formally, I am sorry, we are and John McVicar the door in 1979 that eight or not here to respond to that bigger issue. nine million pounds might well have been better Chairman: Does anybody wish to give a personal spent, because the 16-year olds in 1979 were the 40- opinion? year olds that Carmel Hanna was trying to tackle. It Sammy Wilson: Can I put the same question but was no disrespect to her doing it but that is not the from a diVerent angle? Are the proposals which are point. It is about saying we do have a problem and put forward in Costello, which would require, short term solutions are not the answer to what are instead of a test, a profile which would need a huge long term problems. The refreshing thing in Jane degree of parental input which would also go across Kennedy’s comment was that she was talking in a whole range of things, including things such as terms of ten years. We all accept that the musical ability and things that youngsters can be Government have to have a degree of accountability tutored at, likely to give a better opportunity for and tend not to look any further than two to three youngsters from the areas that you are talking about years ahead, but the reality is that there are no quick- or a worse opportunity? fix solutions to this. There is a generational issue here. There are parents of children, both in school Q131 Chairman: I would be interested in individual now and going into school, who have major responses even if we accept that you do not have a numeracy and literacy diYculties. If they do not formulated collective policy; we respect that. If you have the skills to reinforce what schools are doing do have an individual opinion which might help to during the hours of schooling we are fighting an inform the committee’s thinking, that would be uphill battle. There is an opportunity in terms of the helpful. 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 28 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar
Ms Andrews: I have a daughter who just did the Belfast that bring people in in terms of community selection test two years ago and is at one of the very education, people who have had a horrible good grammar schools in Belfast just down the road experience at school, but once they get on the ladder from here. She went to a prep school with a class of they give them a bit of confidence, and very often it 22 young people in it and 20 of them were tutored to is women. We have women who are very often the go through that test. I benefited from coming from educators of their children. Unless we have those a working class background and getting the 11-plus. support structures and mechanisms, it does not I come from a family where two of us got the 11-plus matter how great it is. I agree with Sammy: there are and two of us did not. Three of us have degrees— great opportunities here, but we need those guess who? The other person went on to further mechanisms to support those parents in our education as well. It was quite a number of years communities. ago. I worry that that is not an opportunity that is as open now to achieve in secondary schools as it is in grammar schools and I think most people here are Q133 Chairman: Thank you very much. Mr familiar with that. We have some very good McVicar, do you want to add anything? secondary schools and some excellent grammar Mr McVicar: I am picking up on what Maggie said schools but we also have some schools that are not in terms of personalising it. I have a 19-year old performing as well as they could for young people daughter who failed her 11-plus and who is in her and they unfortunately perhaps tend to be impacting second year at Coleraine doing a degree in marine more on young, Protestant, working class children. science. She sent me a text message this morning On a personal level, I am not sure that everybody saying, “Hope everything goes well for your knows exactly what Costello will deliver or that presentation today”, because she was doing a everybody is happy with the entirety of something presentation to her university lecturers. like that. I think change is frightening and I think to some extent we are very comfortable with the system we have got. I do not think you can give parents Q134 Chairman: I hope that goes well too! choice unless you give them the information to make Mr McVicar: I certainly hope it does, but the reality those choices and unless they are involved in their for Emma is that the transfer process was nothing children’s education, so there is something there for short of educational child abuse. That is the only me about a lot of parents not knowing enough and way I can describe it, and I was part of that. She not being involved enough in their children’s wanted to do the test. She wanted to go to a single education and not being encouraged to be involved sex school and I said to her, “Because I went to the in it in a way that allows them to make the best of equivalent single sex boys’ school in north Belfast, any system that could exist. I think a lot of us are a by that quirk you are virtually guaranteed a place in bit unsure about what Costello might mean. We like that school. You do not need to do this test”, but she the good things that we have got and we do not like wanted to do it to prove something to herself or to the bad things and we would love to see a change her classmates. In some respects that set her back that fixes it for people and starts to redress the possibly for the first year in school, but because of imbalance between those schools with seemingly the support mechanism within the school she very good resources and a lot of parental support progressed and she is now at university and I am very and the schools who struggle a bit with resources and glad to say that. I think, as Maggie has pointed out, struggle to get parental support as well. that there are a lot of children out there, young people, a lot of families, who do not have the support Q132 Chairman: Thank you for a very thoughtful, mechanisms either within the family network or helpful answer. Would you like to come in? directly or indirectly within the community. As a Mr Douglas: Yes, Sir Patrick. I went through the member of the Education and Library Board I have whole selection procedure and ended up on an had an opportunity to read Costello on a number of apprenticeship scheme, so for me that failed me, but occasions and I am still trying to get my head round I agree that there are a lot of good aspects to that. many of the things in it. There are some things in it The diYculty that I have is not with all those good that are good and there are some things in it that are bits; it is with the infrastructure. There are so many not so good. There is a place for all facets parents out there who just do not value educational of education in Northern Ireland—grammar attainment unless the infrastructure is there to education, secondary education, whatever it encourage those people. If you look at traditional happens to be. It is how we get that mix and one of community development and community the diYculties we have at this point in time is that we education, we are trying to engage those have a situation in which it is—pardon my communities. There has been a long history and language—bums on seats. It is how big is the pound tradition of that in Catholic communities for a sign above the child’s head as he or she walks whole range of reasons over the years. If you look through the door. When we lose sight of the fact that back at community development, community education should be child-centred, that we should be education, self-help, a lot of that stuV would have doing what is best for the children, the individuals been happening within the Catholic community over and the collectives, like we did in 1979 when Jackie decades. It is starting to happen now within the Redpath and John McVicar were thrown out of Protestant communities. For example,—and you Belfast Education and Library Board, that is what I would know this, Sammy,—there are groups in East am talking about. 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar
Chairman: We appreciate those frank answers, and saying that our biggest problem is not what they illustrate as much as anything else is that unemployment or diYculties long term but slow we are all very much motivated by our background educational attainment. I must say that I have been and our experiences; of course we are. We all have very impressed with him as a person. He has done an beliefs, we all have prejudices, but it is very excellent job because he knows the issues and his refreshing. Thank you very much for that. own constituency would have similar diYculties. Mr McVicar: I have met him three times, once by Q135 Mr Anderson: My question was not about the accident and the other two by design. I would say selection process. That seems to have been what from a personal perspective that I find him very approachable. He is a very good listener. The everybody has been focusing on. I just want to make Y the point that what we are trying to do is develop di culty I have, and I am wearing another hat here as Chairman of Greater Shankill Community education in the 21st century, so in a sense it is trying Y to get your view. You did make the point at the Council, is that his o cials announced the delivery beginning, Jackie, that “we have the best but we also team, as it was described, to be headed up by the have the worst of the worst” and that is what I am head of the Civil Service six weeks ago. It took three and a half weeks before we got a reply from Nigel trying to concentrate on. On the education action Y zones, was the intention—and you might not know Hamilton’s o ce, and I am sorry to say the reply this but I am asking you—to use some of the money was—and this is a personal interpretation and I not just for children but also for educating the know it is being minuted—“Don’t ring us. We’ll ring parents? I think that is key. Also, is there any you”. Bearing in mind the complexities of David recognition of the importance of workplace learning Hanson’s appointment by the Secretary of State in in your communities and is that happening, because this, it was not simply about education. It was also about the issues within the Protestant/Unionist/ my understanding is that it has been happening but V it is going to start being cut back? Loyalist community of being disa ected, being Mr McVicar: Certainly from the prospect of ignored. That has in my opinion just added to that. I workplace learning, one of the diYculties I have with have a constituency of 145 community groups across the Prime Minister’s “education, education, Greater Shankill to whom I am answerable. They education” is that I think there are horses for are asking me what has happened and basically all I courses. There are people who are “destined” for a can say at this point in time is that on the face of it university or an academic education. Go and try and nothing has happened. I have written to the find a joiner or a plumber or a bricklayer. South of Minister’s private secretary. I spoke to the Secretary the border they ask whatever price they like. I was of State last Tuesday when I met with her and talking to Jackie about this this morning. My expressed these opinions, but it is a personal brother-in-law set up a business two years ago as a opinion. tiler. My wife looks after his accounts. He sent three invoices down to Dublin last night for somewhere in Q137 Lady Hermon: Is education the main concern? the region of £26,000 and that was just for labour. Mr McVicar: No. It would be a major one but there Basically, pick whatever you want. It is harking back are other issues. to the old days of YTP and YOP and the diYculties that it did have, but there was an emphasis there Q138 Chairman: Do I infer from what you have said, about workplace learning. It was about saying to and Mr Redpath was very anxious to indicate that young people, “You are never going to be a brain these were personal opinions, that you are not as surgeon but you do have particular skills and there members of the partnership having diYculty in are opportunities here to develop those skills”, and seeing ministers, which is really the substance of I think we have lost that. In some respects it is Lady Herman’s question? coming back again. There are major issues, as I am Ms Andrews: No. sure you are aware, in terms of the whole job skills Y Chairman: That is good. We are not here to invite programme and the di culties that that has caused. criticism of ministers. On the contrary, if we have ministers given a good testimonial we are delighted Q136 Lady Hermon: Can I ask you to reflect on because all that my committee is interested in is whether attitudes have changed or not? You gave a furthering the interests of Northern Ireland. During very good account of what it was like when Jackie this, we hope relatively brief, period before the and yourself were asked to leave and you were not Assembly is restored we are your one collective listened to in 1979. Is the Department of Education parliamentary outlet—you have your individual listening to you now? Is the Minister within the members, of course—and we wish to help. If Northern Ireland oYce, and in particular David ministers are doing a good job well we want to know Hanson who has been tasked to set up a task force and if they are not doing it well we also want to to look at Loyalist communities, listening? Have you know. Thank you very much indeed. We have come met him? Have you met the task force? to the end of this session, sadly, but I would say two Mr Douglas: I met him this morning in north Belfast. things. First of all, I want to reiterate our I think that is the fifth time that I have met him but appreciation for the work that you do, obviously, I have been involved in a number of groups, mostly with great conscientiousness and not always in the in East Belfast. All I can say is that as a Minister he easiest of circumstances, and we have travelled has done an excellent job. The key thing is he knows round your part of Belfast and we know it cannot be the issues. He came out to East Belfast and we were easy. If there is anything that this committee can ever 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Ms Maggie Andrews, Mr Sammy Douglas, Mr Jackie Redpath and Mr John McVicar usefully do please let us know, and if, when you go is that you do so before 7 December so that we have out today (and it is a quite likely when you have had the papers to circulate before we see the Minister, a short session), you think, “We wish we had told Angela Smith, on 14 December. Thank you very them that”, please write to our Clerk. All I would ask much indeed, and continued success in what you do.
Written evidence from Mr J Keith, Mr S A McCrea and Mr N J Uprichard is printed on page Ev 76
Witnesses: Mr Norman Uprichard, Former Principal, Newtownbreda High School, Mr Jim Keith, Principal Belfast Boys Model School, and Mr Uel McCrea, Principal, Ballyclare Secondary School, gave evidence.
Q139 Chairman: May I welcome you and your to start some new traditions because there is no colleagues. These sessions come about because of reason why a new tradition cannot be a good, and approaches which the committee received at the time indeed a better, tradition. I am going to leave it as of its last visit six weeks ago from the Headmaster of short as that and ask Uel to say a few words. Belfast Royal Academy and others concerned about Mr McCrea: I am Principal of a non-selective, the potential implications of possible forthcoming academically selective school, 11–18, over 1,000 changes in secondary education. They were very students, over 65 members of staV. anxious to see the committee and with no devolved Assembly in being we are the one collective body and Q141 Chairman: Co-educational? so we said of course they could come and give Mr McCrea: Co-educational. It is over-subscribed, evidence, explain their position and make it is popular. It has been over-subscribed for several submissions. Having decided to do that we thought years. It is growing; we have the biggest numbers yet. it only right to give others with an interest in this It is “successful”, and I heard earlier on about subject an equal opportunity. That was why we excellent schools. There is an implication sometimes invited you and your colleagues and we are very glad that excellent schools are equivalent to grammar that you accepted the invitation. The session will be schools and there are other schools equivalent to taken down in shorthand and you will receive a secondary schools, but I have to say that I am proud transcript. You will have the opportunity to correct of the staV and the youngsters in our school. any factual inaccuracies and then it will be Approximately 49% of them have gained five A-star published. The committee may or may not choose to to Cs and that is in an area where approximately issue a report on this subject but the evidence will 40% of the “ability range” goes oV to selective certainly be published and we shall without any academic schools. Less than 13% have free school doubt be raising points raised with us today by our meals, so there is confidence in our area, the area various witnesses with the Minister for Education that I have worked in for over 20 years. It is a small here in Northern Ireland, Angela Smith, when we rural town with three primary schools, two see her on 14 December. Would you like briefly to controlled, one maintained. They are the all-ability introduce your colleagues and, if you wish to make schools in our area and parents seem very happy an opening submission, please do so and then we can with them. Then it comes to the age of 11 and ask some questions? children largely have to put on two diVerent Mr Uprichard: Thank you very much indeed, Sir uniforms. Families have to be split, have to go their Patrick. I am Norman Uprichard. I did not manage separate ways. There is a selective school in our town to get through the 11-plus procedure. My secondary with well over 1,000 students and ourselves. Both are education was at Ballygomartin Secondary School large schools. You might say at my stage of life why which served the top end of the Shankill Road. Mr am I in favour of change if all those things are so McCrea went to the old technical college for his positive—and they are positive. It is quite simple: secondary education and Mr Keith went to a because academic selection is wrong. grammar school but has been converted in recent years. Q142 Chairman: That is your opinion. Mr McCrea: Absolutely, because I think we need to Q140 Chairman: He has not suVered too badly! put children first, not institutions. We are there to Mr Uprichard: We would like to thank you all for serve the needs of children, not the other way round. this opportunity to speak. We make it clear that we Just because I have a school of a certain tradition are from the secondary controlled sector. We are not and a successful school does not mean to say that purporting to speak for the whole sector but, as we that means that children have to go through the 11- said in the submission, we feel that we are plus. It devalues a sizeable majority of children. It representing views which are widely held in our does not matter how hard those teachers worked sector. We are very conscious of the place that with those primary school youngsters months ago. tradition has in the education system in Northern Last Friday again, no matter how much eVort they Ireland and we have no wish to put that down or be put in, at least 40% of them will have been regarded negative in the points we make. We have a very as Ds at the age of 10 or 11. I think it reinforces positive view of what education should be about in disadvantage. I think it leads to disaVection and Northern Ireland and that it should incorporate all damages self-esteem. It distorts the primary school that is best in all traditions, but it is in our view time curriculum. For what? What is the reason for it? It is 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea clearly just for a pecking order from which a type of teachers will be in any way inhibited by what they school can get its new entrants. Remember, it is the write, by parent pressure, that whole bit of how you same GCSEs; remember, it is the same A-levels. see the admissions process to your schools. Interestingly enough, some people say we need it to Mr Uprichard: As I said in the submission, we maintain standards. Let us look at that argument recognise that there is a lot in Costello that is very very quickly, but there is just one thing I would say commendable and certainly we recognise what he is to you. The present figures from Northern Ireland trying to do when he talks about co-operation with are these, that 96% of grammar school youngsters diVerent types of schools across the various sectors; gained five A-stars to C, but that is with 40% of the I know exactly what he is getting at there. However, population creamed oV. In secondary schools such it does seem, to me anyway, that he is proposing a as our own, if you take the top 25% of our ability very convoluted system here which is still justifying range, when you have creamed oV it is 100% gaining selection at 11 years of age, and I have to say that I five A-stars to C. What I am saying quite clearly is just do not understand why we are so tied into this that if it is a standards argument we are happy to idea that we must select children at 11 years of age. argue for it. That still does not mean you need In fact, I fear that the proposals for the Pupil Profile selection to have high standards. are going to put even greater strains upon the primary schools and we are going to have an even greater distortion of curriculum at primary schools Q143Chairman: Could we please leave it there in order again to go through a process of selecting because it was rather a long statement and children so that they will pass on to the benefit of one colleagues will want to ask you some questions and particular sector and to the detriment of our society I will myself? Thank you for that. What would you as a whole. There are enough things to divide us in like to add, Mr Keith? Northern Ireland, God knows. I still see it as a Mr Keith: I was interested to hear Jackie Redpath process of selection which is unnecessary. talk about the Greater Shankill. I have taught boys Mr McCrea: What is the nature of the Pupil Profile? from the Shankill for the last 35 years. I have huge What is it for? Some of our colleagues, and I pay concerns about the way things are going, largely tribute to excellent schools; I am not knocking because of demographic trends. There is a falling grammar schools, would wish to have the Pupil population in the area. It is served by two excellent Profile. Remember, the Pupil Profile is likely to secondary schools. Only 5% of the children go to happen in the P6 year, not P7. It will be formulated grammar schools so a lot of them would go to those in year 6, and some would wish to use that Pupil secondary schools. Because of declining numbers Profile to determine whether that child is suitable for grammar schools are now taking more and more my type of school. I do not think that is what it is children that they would not have taken in the past designed for. If I understand it, the Pupil Profile is and it is having an impact on the rolls of secondary really to help parents nominate a school with a schools. The secondary sector is the only one which certain ethos, yes, in harmony with their parental is suVering because of demographic trends. It wishes, but an ethos which they would feel happy worries me because they are going to be sink schools with, and we in the second level (whatever type of school) use that profile to guide us in terms of how in the secondary sector and once that spiral starts it we are going to put on an education provision. In is going to be more and more diYcult for those other words, we are not as post-primary schools children who enter those schools to make something determining that this Pupil Profile is for us. It is of themselves. primarily for parental help. Chairman: Thank you very much indeed. I think I should just put on the record—it would only be fair to do so because you made the point Mr McCrea Q145 Rosie Cooper: One of your colleagues this about excellent schools that were not grammar morning suggested that the Pupil Profile would be schools—that it was very fully acknowledged by used by a secondary school in order to band those from the grammar school group who came this children. morning that they were not arguing that there were Mr McCrea: It is an interesting concept but at the no other excellent schools. All that they were present time in an ability range such as our own or arguing essentially was that they felt there should be in Jim Keith’s school we would consult with our primary school colleagues and try and find out, yes, a form of academic selection, not the 11-plus; they the strengths and areas for development, but the were unanimous on that, but some form of selection information that comes from primary school is not because otherwise there would be a real danger of used for banding purposes in terms of diVerentiating jeopardising some excellent schools in Northern along those lines. I think it is back to this question of Ireland. That was essentially their case. Yours is V what is envisaged by the Pupil Profile and what is it clearly a di erent one and my colleagues would like used for. to ask you questions. Q146 Chairman: You ought to be aware that there Q144 Rosie Cooper: Welcome. You are very strongly were two versions of the profile put before the opposed to selection so I would like to explore things committee this morning. One was the Costello like the Pupil Profile and what role and relevance version. The other was the version advocated by that has got for your admissions process: whether Dr Morrison, who was with the team that came to you want full access to that, whether you think argue the grammar school case, and he was arguing 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
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28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea for a much more scientific, computer-based profiling the wider community? I appreciate that only 16% of which would take place over a three-year period. Are the people who received the response forms returned you not familiar with this? them, but of those who did the very high percentage Mr McCrea: I am aware of some of it. I thought by were in favour of the maintenance of selection. Why implication it might give pseudo-objective evidence are people like yourselves losing the argument out upon which children were being selected. there? Mr Uprichard: There are a number of reasons, as I Q147 Chairman: Let us both choose our words have said. There is a public perception and a carefully. You are very good at injecting epithets. tradition in Northern Ireland which feels this way. I The argument to us was that this was more objective listened with interest to the folk who were here than the highly subjective Costello, that it was less before us who feel that in many cases there is a susceptible to parental pressure and that it was more disconnection between the value of education and analytical and gave a better opportunity—I think I the traditional attitudes which persist, particularly am pre´cising it accurately—for the perhaps in working class areas of Belfast, for the boys who temporary setback of a child to be ignored because went into trades and were almost guaranteed a place there would be the opportunity to re-assess over in the shipyard, Mackie’s or whatever. That is one this period. thing. The other thing is that politically the grammar Mr Uprichard: That may well be the case, Sir schools in Northern Ireland have had it very much Patrick, but nonetheless it still rides on the back of their own way. Folks have, for their own reasons, selection at 11-plus. We seem to have this obsession felt strongly on behalf of the grammar schools and here in Northern Ireland that we have to select that was the case which was most strongly made in children at 11-plus and split them up. In fact, and I the corridors of power. am certainly speaking for myself and I think for my Mr McCrea: Following on from that, you take some colleagues here, I would love to see a truly integrated of the myths: they are believed. For example, let us education system in Northern Ireland. There are all take the myth that in Northern Ireland the A-level sorts of diYculties and it is not going to happen results are better. That is fine; we accept that, but tomorrow or the day after, but certainly by a generic what they fail to say is that that only accounts for process that is what I would like to see. With the best 55%. The route through which we get those gold of intentions, though, we have had the introduction standards of A-levels, is that, on the latest figures, of integrated schools in the past number of years 55% come from selective schools; 45% come from which has actually put a third layer into the overall FE and non-selective schools. If, for example, the system, where you have the grammar schools, you grammar school argument is about gold standards, have the highly motivated middle-class parents who they perhaps say that and say it and say it, and did not get their children into the grammar school indeed some of our politicians may believe them and who see this as another way, and then you have without necessarily asking the question, what the secondary sector, which largely, it has to be said, percentage are coming from that grammar school particularly in areas of Belfast, picks up the socially route? In another example, that route favours disadvantaged youngsters. It is very easy then to youngsters from lower socio-economic groups. The point a finger and say it is sink schools, but in fact we latest figures I have show that it is only one in four in are legislating for sink schools, particularly when we the grammar school sector, but 38% in the FE sector are having the demographic trends that we are coming from lower socio-economic groups, and having at the moment. We did make the point in the about 45% of entrants into higher education coming paper that whilst the numbers available to the from lower socio-economic groups come from non- secondary sector have dropped drastically grammar selective schools. I think Norman is right. Perhaps schools still have the same number of children. If the we do not get the same press coverage or we have not argument is that they are there to maintain academic got ourselves organised, but on the other hand, standards how come there have been no closures in Chairman, I certainly as a principal would not have grammar schools, because the same number of gone into my teachers and handed out sheets telling pupils are available in the system? them how to write in in a survey. I would not have sent or circulated to my parents an open letter indicating to them to write to their MP and to send Q148 Stephen Pound: Thank you very much indeed in the responses along a certain line. for your submission. Thank you particularly for the measured and tempered tone of your written submission which, although very polite, does not Q149 Stephen Pound: Just for the record, are you disguise the passion and the depth of feeling. Can I saying that you are aware of schools where that also say, in line with the Uprichard declaration happened, without naming the schools? It is very policy, that I was one who failed the 11-plus but got important that we get that on the record. to grammar school because I was male, because in Mr McCrea: I am absolutely certain and I could the late 1950s, had the 11-plus been applied bring the documentary evidence and I can send the objectively, every single grammar school in London documentary evidence. would have been all-girl, so you got extra points for being male, which rather shows the nonsense of it. Q150 Chairman: Are you referring to a school? Could I pick up a point on the household response Mr McCrea: A number of schools, more than one. I form because you make a very powerful case but it would suggest it was a lobby and I suggest that is clearly not a case that is being echoed out there in professionally we ourselves are not trying to be 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 33
28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea squeaky-clean, but I feel that morally and basis maybe, and that is as damaging as and maybe professionally I could not come to a point where I even more frustrating than academic selection, is the indicated to my staV, “There is the letter. You might point I am trying to make to you. wish to use it”. I certainly would not write out to my Mr Uprichard: You are quite right: I was in a parents and indicate to them that there was a situation where I was at a school which was over- possible way to respond. subscribed. I had a diVerent experience before that. Chairman: There is, of course nothing improper in It is not our fault that we are told that we have to that and it is widely done. We are the recipients of make selection. We were told we had to select. We such epistles on a daily basis. I can think of so many were told, “You have to draw up criteria by which campaigns in recent years where that has been done, you are going to do that”. education included. Anyhow, you have got it on the record and it is duly noted. Q154 Sammy Wilson: How else would you have dealt with a situation of over-subscription? Q151 Sammy Wilson: Chairman, I have read Mr Uprichard: Maybe we could move into what we through the document and I have listened to Mr would see as the vision rather than continuing with McCrea and, having some personal knowledge of the argument about selection. his school, his is actually a selective school. I get parents sitting in my oYce traumatised because their Q155 Sammy Wilson: You raised selection. That is youngsters cannot get into Mr McCrea’s school. why I want to try and sort it out. Sometimes they are turned down on the basis that Mr Uprichard: Because we want to move away from they do not live in the right place; the catchment area selection. That is what we are clearly saying: we want is not right Sometimes they are turned down on the to move away from selection in any form. I feel it is basis that they do not have a brother or sister at the totally unnecessary. school. So, Mr McCrea, when you talk about a non- selective system, you are not talking about the Q156 Chairman: May I just ask Mr Keith, who has absence of selection. You are talking about a certain been commendably silent, possibly because of the kind of selection; is that right? loquacity of his colleagues, if he would like to add Mr McCrea: Absolutely, Chairman. If I have misled something? You, after all, Mr Keith, are head of a anyone in this group I apologise. I thought I said at model school, so how do you do it? the beginning that we are an over-subscribed school. Mr Keith: Yes. The model school has been around Therefore, you have to deal with over-subscription. for over 150 years so we have a great deal of tradition What I am saying, however, is that I do not have a behind us. To be honest with you, I would give up school in which children are labelled because they do that tradition and give up that school for the sake of not get into my school. the children because it is not institutions that are important, as Mr McCrea said earlier; it is the Q152 Chairman: Let us just deal with the question: children. Sammy, I have to disagree. I think how do you select and what is the element of over- academic selection is really harmful and I deal with subscription? those children who come to me harmed in a great Mr McCrea: The over-subscription would be in the way. region of 20% but you have to take into account that you are obviously trying to have a community Q157 Sammy Wilson: It depends how rich the school. If we were moving on, and I wish we were parents are. able to move on to what is the vision that we would Mr Keith: There are very few rich parents who send like to see, I think every community requires their children to my school, so I do not deal with excellent schools and therefore we have to have a them as often. It is really traumatic for the children. mechanism by which, if there is over-subscription, We have to rebuild their confidence. All I can say is we deal with it, but that mechanism should not that so many schools do such a good job of involve children being labelled. rebuilding the confidence of those children which Mr Uprichard: Chairman, can I add to that? has been demolished at the age of 11 and I do not Mr Wilson, there are enough places in secondary think we should have to continue to do that. I think schools in Northern Ireland to do away with the children should not be harmed by the process by need for any sort of selection. which we select them at the very tender age of 11.
Q153Sammy Wilson: This is the point I am trying to Q158 Sammy Wilson: Apart from open enrolment, make. Your argument throughout this document, which we have heard is very damaging, how do you and you have said it I think seven times, is that we avoid selection? should have no selection because selection is Mr Keith: When you say “selection”, you are talking divisive, it is traumatic, it damages youngsters. All I about all types of selection? am trying to say is that Mr McCrea practises selection, the school you were formerly Principal of Q159 Sammy Wilson: Yes. practises selection. It is selection of a diVerent sort Mr Keith: I think we would look at community and and if you do not go down the route for an over- involving our community within the schools. I think subscribed school of deciding to do this on an that is incredibly important, to build community educational basis then you do it on a social basis or schools, and to do that you may well be going down you do it on some other kind of basis, a geographical the line of saying where the children come from. 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 34 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea
That is one way of doing it. That is not a way I would for me as a parent wanting to go not to my want to do it because a lot of my children come from neighbourhood school but the next neighbourhood the Shankill, which is not a community where my school, it does mean— school is situated. They come there because they feel it is a good school and I think children should have Q163Chairman: the opportunity to go to the school of their choice Speaking as somebody with grandchildren in Scotland, it is not quite as simple if possible. as that. Mr McCrea: Perhaps. Q160 Sammy Wilson: That is still selection. Mr Keith: Not necessarily. There is no strategic plan. Q164 Sammy Wilson: 15% of youngsters in Glasgow That is one of the things that worries me about and 24% in Edinburgh go to private schools as a Northern Ireland, Belfast in particular. Because of result of that. talk about demographic change and falling roles, Mr McCrea: Yes, but, with respect, Mr Wilson, I there seems to me to be no plan as to how we are doubt there are many Glasgows and Edinburghs in coping with this. We knew it was coming ten years Northern Ireland. What you have is much more like ago and yet we are now asking the question: what MoVat or somewhere like that. That would be a should we do? We have got schools with intakes of V better example to take, perhaps, than Glasgow or 12 in the secondary sector. What are we o ering Edinburgh. I think only in Belfast and Derry/ those children? That should all be addressed and Londonderry would you have anything of that should all be part and parcel of a big picture. You nature. cannot say it is the secondary sector’s problem; they Dr McDonnell: The issue is academic selection. The need to deal with it. It is a big problem for all our issue is selecting children as a result of compression schools and it is not being handled. There seems to and grinding through P5, P6 up into P7. me to be no strategic plan with regard to education Chairman: The committee can have its debates later. in Northern Ireland. Dr McDonnell: The reality is, Chairman, from my Mr McCrea: The other thing I would add in answer perspective, and I must step in here, that we agreed to Sammy’s question is this. I think there are good this morning, and we have been talking to all the models out there already for dealing with over- groups here who have given evidence, yes, selection, subscription. You will find them not in the but that selection on a geographic basis or selection secondary sector but in the primary sector. The fact on a slightly diVerent model was less traumatic to is that you reduce the need for selection by ensuring children, and really the contentious issue here, from that your neighbouring school is as good as yours, if my understanding, is the compressed academic not better. In other words, there should not be selection, forcing children to achieve certain competition. It should be seen as in the primary standards in certain circumstances and then sector where neighbourhood schools are there, and marking those who do not achieve those standards we have good examples in Ballyclare where we have as failures. two very strong primary schools. They seem to be able to cope with this issue of over-subscription. All I am saying is that if you deal with it on that basis Q165 Chairman: The other thing we have to consider you are not attaching labels to those children who, is this, that some people would argue that a form of for whatever reason, do not get into a popular academic selection which brings out the best school. potential in each child is the best way of conducting a child-centred education. I think we do have to be careful, all of us, in attributing base motives to those Q161 Sammy Wilson: Having done appeals for who take a diVerent point of view. I speak as parents as well, I am not so sure the answer you are somebody who was a schoolmaster for 10 years giving is quite accurate. The fact of the matter is that before I became insane and so I do know a little bit we do have over-subscription and I am asking you, about it. I think we just have to be very careful. and I have not heard an answer yet, how you deal Gentlemen, I want to get this absolutely on the with over-subscription, apart from open enrolment, record. You are arguing before this committee, and without having selection. let us put selection on one side, not only that Mr McCrea: There are a number of ways of dealing academic selection at 11-plus by means of a single with it. One would be perhaps a bit like the Scottish exam or group of exams taken on a particular day or model. I pause there to say that I am not sure if there two or three particular days is wrong, but also that are any folks here from Scotland. it would be impossible to substitute any form of academic selection that would be acceptable from your point of view. Is that your submission? Q162 Chairman: Oh yes, we have one Member here Mr Uprichard: First of all, I hope we have not been from Scotland. guilty of suggesting base motives by anybody, but Mr McCrea: I am given to understand that what you certainly yes, I think that is our position. have is almost contributory primary schools into Mr McCrea: It is because we believe children do not your second level education, and those parents who need it. Children simply do not need it. Children are wish to opt out of that can opt out, but they cannot not types. They are continuums and what we have to opt out at the expense of a neighbouring parent who try and do, rather than build an academic ladder, wants to go into that popular school. In other words, which we are fixated about, is build a trellis creating 3249641002 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 35
28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea educational opportunities—a trellis, not a ladder. but in terms of Northern Ireland as we know it 50- We want opportunities for people to go in diVerent plus of non-selective heads coming together is still directions at diVerent times and diVerent paces. quite substantial.
Q166 Chairman: Gymnasts, not climbers? Q170 Chairman: Representing what? Mr McCrea: That is a good analysis. We might use Mr McCrea: That, I would imagine, would that. That is absolutely right. What we do as represent at least a third. educationalists is provide that structure to ensure Chairman: It is just helpful to have a few steers. Do that that opportunity is there for children, children, any colleagues wish to ask any final questions? children, all the time, all the time. Q171 Rosie Cooper: You know that in England Q167 Lady Hermon: As a matter of interest can I ask “choice” is a big word. How would parental choice whether the secondary selection that you represent is overlay your views? opposed to the single sex school, whether it be for Mr Uprichard: It is a very good question; it is a very boys or girls? Is that the sort of selection that you are diYcult question to answer just like that. Because of also opposed to? the many facets that there are to education in Mr Uprichard: From a personal point of view I Northern Ireland—and, forgive me, I do not wish to prefer co-ed. I have worked in both and I do think be patronising,—it must be somewhat baZing to that co-education is a better route, but I also served people from across the water. There are so many as a teacher in Mr Keith’s school for many long diVerent interests that have built up over the years years. Good schools are characterised by good and then we have had the additions in more recent teachers and a love of children, not by any years from well-meaning people, like, for instance, particular sector. Irish-medium, so we get more and more divisions taking place. It is very diYcult to see how parents can make a really educated decision based on the Q168 Chairman: You were very fair at the beginning system we have at the moment. As I said earlier, the and you said that whilst you were each members of grammar schools have had a very strong lobby in the the Secondary Heads Association you were not an Y corridors of power politically and it has swayed o cial delegation from them. However, you said opinion here. I am not crying, “Oh, poor boy” here. you thought your views were fairly representative. That is a fact that that has existed. There is a process How representative? Do you think what you have of education that needs to go on and there needs to been saying to the committee represents 60%, 70%, be a wider debate and we need to look at the vision. 50%? How would you characterise it? We have said our say about selection and I would Mr Uprichard: I could not in all honesty put a like to see the debate move on now because it should percentage on it but I would say this: I think our be about children, not about institutions, and it views are shared, not just by those in the secondary should be about equality. school sector, but I think a lot of people in the Mr McCrea: If we are interested in having the best maintained secondary sector would feel much as educated, the most confident, the most flexible, the we do. most adaptable, the most enthusiastic and most valued young people, that is the aim of the game. We Q169 Chairman: Have you done anything to should not as parents wish that for our child at the establish this? After all, Mr Pound, very expense of someone else’s child. understandably and, I think, entirely properly, quoted some percentage figures from a poll. Have Q172 Chairman: But should parents have a choice? you surveyed your members to find out what their Mr McCrea: I think parents have a choice in terms opinions are? of ethos, in terms of non-denominational/ Mr McCrea: I am here as Principal of Ballyclare denominational. Secondary School but I also serve as the Chairman of the Association of Head Teachers in Secondary Schools, which represents maintained and Q173Lady Hermon: Boys’ schools/girls’ schools? controlled schools. Our executive stretches right Mr McCrea: Yes, gender issues. There are issues across Northern Ireland and we have an executive there and we are not saying one size fits all is what it group. Our views, the views that we can again has been reduced to. What we are saying is that we present in written form, have been through the want the community to be confident in itself, that it executive committee, have been through conferences has a range of good schools equally valued, equally and are widely accepted. Numerically how strong held in high esteem, but if I wish that for my school are we? In terms of paid-up membership we would then I wish it for my neighbours’ schools. I do not be in excess of at least 50 heads. It is not a union; it want to be selecting in any way children for my is an association. It is an association purely school at the expense of another neighbouring interested in educational terms, not in any school. preconceived, three-line whip terms. We are purely educationalists. If you were looking at the grammar Q174 Gordon Banks: Do you see the challenge that schools, I think over 50-odd grammar school Costello laid down in relation to collaboration principals coming together would be regarded in between educational organisations and institutions Northern Ireland circumstances as quite substantial, as a positive challenge or a real problem? 3249641002 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:23:06 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG1
Ev 36 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
28 November 2005 Mr Norman Uprichard, Mr Jim Keith and Mr Uel McCrea
Mr Uprichard: It is certainly a challenge and it the concept that we will come back and look at our certainly has a positive ring about it. What would own community and try and move together to concern me slightly is that it is such a convoluted enhance our educational provision, particularly at system to make us co-operate with one another. 16–19. Why go into all that convolution? Why not have Chairman: Perhaps it would be a good idea if you schools which have that sort of co-operation already have not read each other’s evidence before you go; it about them? might make for a more co-operative journey! I wish you a happy journey. Thank you, gentlemen, very Q175 Gordon Banks: Do you show that now in your much indeed. If there are any points that you feel organisation? you ought to have made and time has not allowed Mr Keith: In my school, for example, I am all boys, you to make, if there are any points that you feel you and there is an all girls’ school close by. Post-16 we wish to amplify, please let the Clerk know. We are combine to oVer the children far more choice. In seeing Angela Smith on 14 December and therefore fact, we oVer over 20 A-level choices which we could any additional submission from you should be fairly not do as separate institutions. That is for the good brief and should reach us by 7 December. What is of the children and that is how it should work. quite clear is that you are three heads with a Mr McCrea: On Wednesday, God willing, I will be tremendous commitment to education in general going with my grammar school colleague with two and your own schools in particular. Thank you for Education and Library Board advisers to what you do and may you continue to do it. I am Birmingham on a study tour and the next day we are sure you do not envy us our task as we wrestle with going to Coventry to see their 14–19 pathway with what we have heard. 324964PAG3 Page Type [SO] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 37
Wednesday 14 December 2005
Members present:
Sir Patrick Cormack, in the Chair
Mr David Anderson Lady Hermon Gordon Banks Meg Hillier Mr Gregory Campbell Dr Alasdair McDonnell Rosie Cooper Stephen Pound Mr Christopher Fraser Sammy Wilson
Written evidence from Angela E Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland OYce is printed on page Ev 78
Witnesses: Angela E Smith, a Member of the House, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland OYce, Mr David Woods, Head of Post Primary Support Team and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin, Post Primary Support Team, Department of Education for Northern Ireland (DENI), gave evidence.
Q176 Chairman: May I welcome you Minister; we Angela Smith: Several surveys have been undertaken are grateful to you for coming. Before I say and polls and views assessed on this. The household anything, would you like to introduce your two survey is one of them. I have to say the response rate oYcials? was very poor: around 16% of the adult population Angela Smith: I should indeed. Both my oYcials are responded. Having said that, it was quite from the post primary team: I have David Woods on significantly against removing academic selection. my left and Jacqui McLaughlin on my right. We have taken account of all the many views which have been put to us on this issue. I am sure you will want to look at other aspects of the Costello report Q177 Chairman: As you will be aware, the and I welcome the opportunity you have given me background to this afternoon’s session, is that we today to discuss these issues, but one of my were approached shortly after this Committee was frustrations as Minister around this whole process, formed, indeed at the beginning of the autumn, by and the Costello report was a very wide-ranging, representatives of the grammar schools who were very complex report, has been how one aspect of that very concerned that they did not feel that their case report has been discussed almost to the exclusion of had been fully listened to and they were anxious that some of the others. I very much welcome some of the the Committee should hear what they had to say comments which your Committee have been making about changes which they believed would be and questions you have been asking across the range detrimental to the quality of education in Northern of Costello. Looking at the household survey, we did Ireland. We agreed to their request, but we felt it was take account of that, but we have taken account not only right to see others. You will know that on our just of the number of opinions but the detail in those recent visit to Belfast and Londonderry we saw various groups; some of whom gave us public opinions which have been expressed to us by a wide evidence. We also visited four schools: two in Belfast range of people in a wide range of ways. and two in Londonderry. So that the Committee could have a varied experience we divided into two Q178 Chairman: Do you think that this is a decision, groups and those who went to the grammar school, the future of secondary education in Ireland, which the selective school in Belfast, the Royal Academy, should ideally be taken in Northern Ireland by the went to the secondary school in Londonderry and people of Northern Ireland? vice-versa. We also visited schools catering for the Angela Smith: I should say ideally all decisions I and V di erent communities, so in Londonderry we saw my ministerial colleagues take on a range of issues what were essentially a Protestant secondary school would be better taken by local ministers in Northern and a Roman Catholic grammar school. That is the Ireland. We are in a situation of direct rule where we background. We have not yet decided whether we are charged with governing and we do so in the best are going to issue a brief report on this. We have way that we can. I do take the point very clearly and come to this subject rather late in the day; that is not all of us would. We would much rather these our fault and it is not yours. However, we now stand decisions and many others were taken by locally on the verge of some very important final decisions elected ministers. being made in Northern Ireland and perhaps we could just ask you a little about the background from your point of view. First of all, what account Q179 Chairman: Would it not therefore have been did you and your predecessors take of the household perhaps prudent and sensitive, as we hope we are on response form which appeared to indicate a fairly the verge of a restoration of devolved rule, to have massive majority in favour of opposing the ending of deferred final implementation of any decisions until selective education. after the Assembly had been re-established? 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Ev 38 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Angela Smith: It would be diYcult to put all seeking to do is remove academic excellence, close decisions on hold until that time, whenever that may grammar schools. What we are trying to do is to be and we all hope it is as soon as possible. Costello have a better method of transferring pupils from was first accepted in 2004 by my colleague Jane their primary school to their post-primary school, Kennedy, when she was Minister for Education. It but also have a curriculum which is more flexible and had been discussed for a number of years prior to better meets the needs of those young people. that. It would be doing a disservice if we were not to Indeed, if the curriculum is more flexible so for take decisions to address all the issues in Costello, grammar schools it is also more flexible. At the not just academic selection but all the issues, in moment every single post-primary school in particular ones surrounding the curriculum and the Northern Ireland has the same curriculum, taught in importance of getting a curriculum which really does the same way, at the same level. Our proposals have meet the needs of the 21st century in terms of more flexibility but no grammar schools will be vocational, academic excellence, in terms of the kind closed as a result of these proposals, which is why of economy we are moving towards. There are many there will be no need for ballots. great strengths in the Northern Ireland education Chairman: I am sure we shall be returning to that. system that we want to maintain and build on. Equally, there are significant weaknesses and if we do not address those we are doing a disservice to the Q182 Sammy Wilson: May I follow up on the general young people who have been aVected by those approach first of all? Just for the record, it ought to weaknesses. be pointed out that, whilst you say there was a very low response rate to the original survey, over 250,000 households did respond; it was the highest Q180 Chairman: You say you have taken account of response rate for any survey carried out by the then views but one of the complaints which was made to Northern Ireland Assembly, in fact it was five times us, and they were not all from the same quarter, was higher than the response rate for any of the that people had not been given suYcient consultations by any government department taken opportunity to express their views either to you or to during the life of the Assembly. Just for the record. your predecessor. There was certainly a feeling In relation to the consultation, 62% of the people which was particularly evident when the grammar opposed the proposals in the household survey, 90% school representatives gave evidence, that they were have registered their opposition in the most recent very grateful to us and relieved that they were at last survey. You are now going to have a consultation on able to give this evidence which they felt they had not this document here. Given the form in which this had the opportunity to give to your predecessors. document is now written and the fairly finalised way Angela Smith: That is probably an unfair criticism, in which the Order has been drafted up, in reality but I accept that if people do not feel somebody what chance is there of any changes being made in a agrees with them, they feel they have not been heard. document which reaches this kind of form at this I had numerous meetings with all shades of opinion stage of the process? on this issue. There was extensive consultation and Angela Smith: That is a matter for the parliamentary V my predecessors also met with di erent shades of process. When you talk about percentages of opinion. I was just checking how many meetings and responses, some of the information we get is opportunities there had been for members of the contradictory. I saw one poll recently which said V public with di ering views to put their views to that roughly two thirds of people were opposed to ministers. In fact, the organisations representing the removing academic selection; the figures change grammar school lobby had approaching twice as from 90% to 50% to 65%, they vary enormously many meetings with ministers as those with the depending on the question which is asked. The same Y opposing point of view. It is di cult for people. survey showed that slightly more than that, though They see a bit of change, and there has been roughly two thirds again, wanted children to go to some misunderstanding and indeed some their local school and be streamed according to misrepresentation of the Government’s views on ability within the local school. There are some which people have based their opinions and contradictory results. In terms of the draft Order, representations following that. I can give you an the removal of academic selection was accepted back assurance that every shade of opinion has had the when Jane Kennedy accepted the Costello report opportunity to meet with ministers, myself and my and it is looking at how to give eVect to that with two colleagues in this post previously. All those meetings objectives in mind: one to ensure that we retain have been very worthwhile for ministers. academic excellence and opportunities; the other to ensure that every child fulfils its full potential and Q181 Chairman: In the rest of the United Kingdom, every child is challenged by the education system. I where there has been a suggestion that a grammar have seen some things recently; I met yesterday with school might be closed, this Government, your two groups, both of them dealing with young people Government, has provided the facility for a local who had disengaged from the education system. One ballot of parents. There is no such facility provided of the reasons both of them gave me without any in the proposals which you are putting forward in prompting, because I wanted to explore why they Northern Ireland. felt young people were disengaging, was that a very Angela Smith: Because there is no proposal to close large part of it was the curriculum. All young people grammar schools. If you look at the proposals in are doing the same curriculum in the same way and detail, it is important to stress that what we are not it did not meet their needs, it did not challenge those 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 39
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin young people, it did not address their needs. The with all the issues which are facing us and not just proposals we are putting forward are to address that one small aspect of it. I would not want to predict within the curriculum, so that every young person what the Assembly will do in those circumstances. has the ability to be challenged by the curriculum they are studying, so that mix of academic and Q185 Lady Hermon: I am delighted to see you here V vocational courses can be o ered in every school to this afternoon Minister, along with your colleagues. every child, so that does mean we get a better May I just reflect on one point which you have outcome and fulfil the potential of every pupil going already made in your submission to us this through school. afternoon and that is to indicate that the representatives of the grammar schools have Q183Sammy Wilson: You mentioned that one of the actually met on twice as many occasions as other reasons why this was being done now, even though groups? Could the Minister just clarify that? How it should be a devolved issue, was that there was a many times has the Minister met with the heads of pressing urgency. Is it also not a fact that you know, grammar schools? How many times has her and those within your Department who are predecessor met with the heads of grammar schools? probably pushing this know, that had these kinds of Angela Smith: We have both had a number of meetings. I and my predecessor met with the GBA proposals come to the Northern Ireland Assembly, 1 given the way in which decisions have been made in on nine occasions, with the Secondary Heads of the Northern Ireland Assembly, there would be Northern Ireland on two occasions, and the absolutely no chance of them ever going through in CGSFPA on one occasion, so a total of 13 meetings. their present form. Therefore they are being pushed, If we look at the meetings with those who are ahead of an Assembly being formed, because it is promoting and supporting the Costello changes, the CCMS, the AHTSS, the NASUWT, a total of six known that they could not possibly go through in meetings, exactly twice the number of meetings with this form with an Assembly. those promoting the changes. I am not sure the Angela Smith: I refute that. The timetable we are number of meetings on its own is necessarily helpful. following is the timetable which was set out when The point I was making was that we did not deny Costello was first published in which the last transfer anybody the opportunity to speak to me, we made tests would take place in 2008 and the new the opportunities. We wanted to ensure that we got arrangements would come into force in 2009. There a complete understanding of the opinions being put has been no haste in this and I do not think you or I to us and the GBA were certainly putting the views would have imagined that I should be Minister for of the grammar school heads very well. Education and not you. No one would have imagined that there would still be a devolved administration now. There has been no haste on the Q186 Mr Campbell: You have given the indication part of the Department; we have followed the of how many meetings took place. Surely the timetable which was first set down by Costello. meetings would be in response to requests for meetings. Would it be the case that there was an intensity of requests for meetings from one side? Q184 Chairman: I do not think that was Mr Wilson’s Angela Smith: Not always. One of the things I did point. Mr Wilson’s point was that he did not think when I became Minister for Education was to ask for the Assembly would ever countenance such meetings with various groups. It would be very measures going through onto the statute book. diYcult for me to say which ones were in response to Angela Smith: I was making two points and I was requests, but as we moved through the process, I going to come to that second point. The first point asked my oYcials to ensure that I met was that we were acting in haste and I was pointing representatives whether or not they had written in as out that we were not acting in haste. The second well, I specifically asked to meet representatives of point would be a matter for the Assembly and I every shade of opinion. would not predict what the Assembly would do. During this debate I have had the advantage of Q187 Chairman: In view of the comments we had looking at this in some detail and I have to say that when we were in Northern Ireland and because the the debate has taken place in the same amount of Committee wishes really to see the facts, do not detail in Northern Ireland as a whole and if there is delay this particular point now, but could you please a misunderstanding, which may be the fault of the write to us, detail the meetings, the length of time Department and me, some of it has been each one took, whether it was at your invitation or misrepresentation. I notice in the evidence you were by request and those who attended the meetings? given previously about the pupil profiles some of the Then we can get a balanced view as to exactly what information being given to the Committee is that happened. pupil profiles are completed by the pupils. I made a Angela Smith: It may be a little bit more diYcult. I note of the comment which was made to members can give you the time the meeting was scheduled but before that the child set its own work in the pupil they often overran. We will give as much profile. That is not true. This is something information as we can to you along the lines you undertaken by professional teachers with computer are seeking. assessment tools to assist them. There has been some Chairman: That would be extremely kind. misrepresentation of what is actually involved. It is very important that we look at this debate in context 1 Correction from Minister, ten 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Ev 40 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Q188 Rosie Cooper: My honourable friend from driver. Would you not agree with us though that it Antrim East was suggesting that this decision would is a major factor in pressing for change in schools in never have been made by the Assembly, or was Northern Ireland? unlikely to be made by the Assembly. I should just Angela Smith: It has to be, in that we have to look at like to explore that. How much do 45,000 empty the school provision because it has financial school places cost and who is paying for that? I consequences and it also has educational suppose the nub of my question is: how long could a consequences. If schools are not sustainable in the Northern Ireland Assembly sustain those costs into longer term, then there are educational consequences the future? for the younger children in that school. At the Angela Smith: How much does it cost? It is diYcult moment it is most evident in primary schools, to say in financial terms; it does have an impact on although it is feeding into post-primary schools. I the budget. I should say that this is not driven by the have issues in front of me at the moment, which we surplus places issue. I know Committee members are shall no doubt touch on in the course of this, as aware of the degree of surplus places in Northern regards integrated education where there will be a Ireland schools and how that is escalating; if nothing demand for a new school but the number of surplus is done it will go up to 80,000 in the next 10 years. places in existing schools will be extremely high. It That does not drive this at all; it has to be seen in brings into play a number of diVerent pressures, context. In Belfast alone there are 8,500 empty desks financial and educational. in primary schools. I was at a primary school last week and I left feeling quite upset after speaking to a head who is doing what I think is an extremely Q191 Meg Hillier: In a sense it seems to me, as a good job in extremely diYcult circumstances, yet relative outsider to the Northern Ireland situation until recently, that the falling roll forces physical because his numbers are falling his budget is under change. We have heard about schools being forced significant pressure. The amount of extra money he to merge, doing it ad hoc. We have heard about some has per pupil in his school is 11%, but because of the success stories. You have talked today particularly way the numbers have reduced in the school, that underlining the number of surplus places and the has not particularly helped him balance his budget; pressures for new schools, integrated and other. If falling rolls do have a significant impact on school you take on board all the issues around the choice of budgets in Northern Ireland. Unless something is 27 subjects at GCSE level and 24 at A level, does this done to address the issue of surplus places, it will get not all force a physical change to make sure that the worse and action is being taken. This is a similar demographics, the subject range and the ability context, but it is not the driver for the changes. issues are all dealt with? Yet you say that is not a driver. I was just wondering whether you could Q189 Rosie Cooper: I understand that this is not explain that. driven by costs and wanting to do that, but I was Angela Smith: It was not a driver behind Costello. I really addressing the point of my honourable friend was not in Northern Ireland at the time of Costello, for East Antrim. I suppose I am saying that at some it was set up prior to my being Minister for point the Assembly would have competing priorities Education in Northern Ireland, but the drive behind and in the future costs would become a very Costello was how best to meet the needs of the 21st pressing point. century and looking at whether transfer tests were Angela Smith: It would. One of the demands which the best way of having children move from primary is often made on me as Minister is to increase the to secondary school. In terms of the change, you are amount of money spent on education. We are right that there is a huge change programme in continually increasing the amount of money spent education in Northern Ireland. It is massive in terms on education, but I am not convinced that we are of the RPA and Costello and there is a very, very getting the best value for that money. We are significant issue in the falling rolls. Coupled with changing a very bureaucratic structure and you may that is the kind of infrastructure we have in schools. have some knowledge of the review of public I visited a school last week and was quite appalled at administration which is addressing this. We the standard of the school and the work which currently have five Education and Library Boards needed to be done. I shall be announcing fairly and we shall be replacing them with one education shortly, hopefully in a matter of weeks, a new capital authority. There is no doubt that it is a significant programme for schools and that is an opportunity to pressure on schools and would have to be addressed address some of these issues. The Queen opened a by whoever was the Minister. new school in Northern Ireland last week, Chairman: May I bring in Meg Hillier? You will see Downshire School, which is an amalgamation of that this Committee neither sits nor talks in party two schools. What we have now is a brand new terms, which is very refreshing. school which is sustainable in the long term as a primary school, but also has adult education facilities within the school and a mother and toddler Q190 Meg Hillier: Thank you Minister for coming; group. It is very much a community based school at we had some interesting debates about the subject in a brand new school. When I have to close schools in Northern Ireland and a lot of interesting a community—and I have had to do so now on two submissions. I want to focus on the issue which my or three occasions—I have to understand the very honourable friend has raised about pupil numbers detrimental impact it has on the local community. and the falling rolls. You have said that it is not a When a school has been allowed to get to such low 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin numbers that the only option is to close that school, I schools who are worried about losing further pupils. feel extremely sad about that and I do recognise, and On the other hand I speak to a parent on the margins members here have made representations to me on of another event—the parent was not making those particular issues for those particular schools, representations, but he was from that area—and the how damaging it is to the community. That is why, parent tells me that he particularly wants his child to if we can do some forward planning and look ahead go to an integrated school. I have to ask: why is it, at what the needs are for the future, address the issue when there are 750 surplus places, that parent does of falling rolls in the longer term and have schools not want to send his child to any one of the schools which are fit for purpose and sustainable in the with surplus places? At the moment the integrated longer term, we do start to address these issues in a primary school has two2 places vacant. That is one much more eVective way. of the dilemmas in decision making. As the Minister making that decision, I have to take into account the Q192 Meg Hillier: You have highlighted some of the surplus places available and that is part of the big issues about falling rolls. Why is it that it has not decision-making process. It is not quite as you would been fully addressed before now, or is that an unfair indicate; it is not that we have a target and we have assumption? to create 10% in some sectors, but it does have to be Angela Smith: You would have to ask others not me. taken into account. If we are also looking at parental I was quite shocked at the marked decline in school choice, the parental choice is that they want another rolls. It is diYcult across five Education and Library integrated school in that area, there is a demand for Boards. I have had diVerent responses to this it. At the same time there is an excess of places in that particular point, but I was speaking to one head area. One of the ways to deal with that is to have teacher and he was keen to amalgamate his school more cooperation between schools and schools with another school which was across an Education across sectors. There are schools which do that. I and Library Board boundary and, for various made a note of two in particular. There are two reasons, it became impossible to amalgamate the schools across the controlled and maintained sector two schools and that school is now in a very diYcult which are doing some A levels jointly in the sixth position. The Department’s role and the role of the form. That kind of cooperation can assist with that, Minister has been to make an assessment of but the problem is that it is not happening development proposals which have been brought everywhere and it is not really happening enough. forward by the Education and Library Boards and CCMS would also do it within the Catholic sector. I Q194 Chairman: The commonsense, cost-eVective am not convinced that the examination of this has answer would often be to encourage the existing to been as robust as it should have been within the integrate rather than to close and build something Education and Library Board sector. fresh. Is this not something you try to encourage? Angela Smith: At the moment that responsibility is Q193Sammy Wilson: You have talked about the not with me as Minister. Under the new RPA problem of falling school rolls and surplus places arrangements that may be easier to do. One of the and everyone in Northern Ireland accepts that, things that an integrated school proposal would though you are saying that is not what is predicating have to look at, would be whether there was another this document. Is there then a contradiction in the school in the area which wished to become approach of your department which is committed to integrated. Sometimes that is not possible because growing the Irish medium and the integrated school the threshold which is set for a school to change from sectors by 10% each year against a background one sector to being integrated is not the same where you are saying you already have 45,000 religious balance as a new integrated school. Some surplus school places? How do you explain to those parents prefer a new integrated school, because there schools which are going to be closed how in some is more of an equal balance than in a school which circumstances you will be opening a new school in converts or transfers to become an integrated the exact same area because of your Department’s school. It is one of the complexities we have in the education system which makes decision making and policy? Y Angela Smith: It is not just departmental policy it is funding more di cult. I do not have all the answers legislation which has been put forward. I do not on that; I just get some of the problems. recognise the target of 10% which you gave; I am aware of no targets. Under the 1998 legislation we Q195 Lady Hermon: I am increasingly concerned have to encourage and facilitate Irish medium and about the issue of falling pupil numbers being used integrated education. It does create a huge challenge as an excuse to slow down announcements about to me as Minister. If a proposal comes forward to capital expenditure. I shall give you an example: me, and I understand that a proposal will shortly be Bangor Academy, which will be the largest new coming forward to me, for an integrated school, a build at secondary level in the North Down post-primary school in an area where in that wider constituency. It is not a school which suVers from area there are 750 surplus places, I have legislation falling roll numbers and yet and all the which says I should encourage and facilitate. I have announcement to go ahead with that expenditure 750 surplus places. To build a new school has capital has not been confirmed by your Department. That implications and it also has revenue implications. I has a serious knock-on eVect for the staV, for the have had representations from the principals and two of the MPs in that area supporting the local 2 Correction from Minister, ten 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin pupils, for the board of governors. Will the Minister Q198 Meg Hillier: One thing I did not quite get in on indicate to the Committee this afternoon when she was where integrated schools fit in the future. At the is prepared to make an announcement about capital moment we have integrated, Irish medium, expenditure? Catholic-controlled, grammar schools, in summary. Angela Smith: I would hope to make an You are also proposing academic and all the other announcement in the fairly near future. It is a bit secondary schools would be perhaps slightly unfair to say that it is being used as an excuse to diVerent, perhaps overlapping with specialist. delay the announcement of the capital programme. Where do you see integrated schools? Do you see What I do have to ensure, if I am announcing a them overlapping? How do you see them fitting into major capital programme for the building of new those types of schools? schools and significant refurbishment of others, is Angela Smith: Any of the post-primary schools that I am able to stand over that and say those are could apply for specialist school status. That was not the schools we all want in 10 years’ time, in 15 years’ just the maintained or controlled sector, Irish time. I would be heavily criticised by various medium or integrated, all of them could apply for committees and Members of Parliament, if I were to that. There was a mixture of applications. We have announce a capital programme which included had the first sift and I hope to announce 10 new schools which were not sustainable in the longer specialist schools. Thirteen have been short-listed; a term because of falling rolls. There is no attempt to mixture of controlled secondary, maintained slow down the capital programme using falling rolls secondary, integrated, maintained grammar and as an excuse, but it does have to be a factor in the controlled grammar. One of the controlled grammar sustainability of any schools. May I just share my schools has now pulled out because it is working on thoughts with you on this, which are not particularly so many other initiatives and does not wish to be public at the moment? What I should like to do is considered at this stage. A mix of those schools with perhaps look at a two-stage announcement, where the various specialisms applied for that status and those schools which are quite clearly sustainable in they were assessed on the quality of their the longer term and need to go ahead fairly soon can applications and we would hope to be make a final be moved forward and then some additional work announcement on those in the not too distant future. done on looking at the long-term sustainability. If we can look at the capital programme in terms of falling rolls and where new schools could be built, Q199 Mr Fraser: You claim that your proposals will and rather than seeing a community extremely upset enable every child to reach the maximum of their about losing a school, a community being delighted potential. That is correct, is it not? at having a new school and amalgamate two or three Angela Smith: Yes. schools, there may be opportunities there. I may have the opportunity to make a capital programme Q200 Mr Fraser: But when you look at the Costello announcement in two stages. I should apologise to report it actually says that all-ability intake may those schools which have been waiting, but this is a Y impact on the achievements of higher ability pupils very di cult area and I do not think it would be right and more able pupils may not be stretched fully. As to have a short-term programme when there is a Costello’s advice has been accepted in everything long-term issue to be addressed. else, why have you made an exception in this case? Angela Smith: I do not think we have. I am not sure Q196 Lady Hermon: When do you hope to make the all schools will be all-ability schools, although I have first of these announcements? to say that some grammar schools are becoming all- Angela Smith: I should like to do so shortly after ability schools now as a consequence of falling rolls. Christmas. Last year3 we saw grammar schools taking 4% and then last year it got to 9% of children admitted with Cs and Ds. The do-nothing option is to see all-ability Q197 Mr Campbell: On the business of encouraging schools. What Costello and the proposals for the and facilitating in relation to Irish medium, would pupil profile show is teachers making the assessment you think it could be helpful, if it were to be the case over the period of that child’s time in a primary in future, where there are schools—and I can think school, parents using that information to make a of one at least in my constituency, a very small choice about what kind of education, what school maintained school—which are under threat of best suits the young person. I do not think all schools closure, that encouraging and facilitating towards will be mixed ability schools; the driver on choice integration as an alternative to closure might be will be the kind of curriculum being oVered by the equally productive and acceptable if that were school. You are aware that the curriculum will be enshrined in legislation and you were able to deploy one third academic, one third vocation and technical equal facilitation in that regard? and one third will be for the school to choose what Angela Smith: Normally when integrated schools best suits the kind of school it wants to be. That will bring forward a proposal to a Minister they would be the driver for parents choosing the best school for have to show that they had looked at that area of it. the needs of their child and within schools they can I should welcome any legislation which would make set and stream. my life easier. Chairman: Maybe the Committee should oVer some 3 Correction from Minister: [delete last year and insert] In suggestions. 1998–99 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Q201 Mr Fraser: You claim you want to preserve the Angela Smith: It would have to be proved to me that excellent standards achieved by grammar schools, academic selection in itself provides an increase in but then you want to abolish academic selection. social mobility and it does not. No evidence has been Perhaps it is just me, but I am not clear from what presented to me which shows that removing it you have told us so far how your objective is decreases that. I know that there are some good achieved if academic selection disappears. Could examples of people who have gone into grammar you very briefly explain it again to me? Perhaps I am school, but I am quite upset that only 5% of kids on foggy on it, but I cannot see that you have actually the Shankill in three years ever got a shot at a answered that. grammar school place. I do not believe that 95% of Angela Smith: At the moment every school in kids on the Shankill are not competent or able to Northern Ireland teaches the same curriculum in the have an academic education. They are; they can same way. Under the new proposals there will be the achieve, but they are not getting the opportunity for opportunity for schools to vary, have more various reasons. I know you have also met the flexibility around the curriculum and in the way it is Shankill principals and I have met the Shankill taught as well. It will not be for me to tell teachers principals and I have visited schools on the Shankill. how to teach a subject. The schools who want to They say that this is a discussion which does not have a more academic ethos have an academic really aVect them, that their kids are not even getting curriculum and that will attract parents who want to take the 11-plus. Some of them may achieve later their children to have that academic excellence. I on, but at 11-plus they are not ready to make that want to add a little word of warning, that it would be decision for their future. I have also visited and met unfair to say that the only schools in Northern with principals of secondary schools, post-primary Ireland which achieve academic excellence for their schools which have a non-selective intake, and they pupils are the grammar schools. There are several have young people coming to them who have not very, very good secondary schools which do not taken the 11 lus selection exam, or who have Cs or have selection. Particularly with falling rolls, the Ds, who are going on to do degrees. I do not accept other post-primary schools which are not grammar that the only way for social mobility is through a schools do not have a choice in the pupils they take selection exam, academic selection at the age of 11. and some of the results from those are equally excellent. At the moment you will find, and it will Q204 Chairman: It is incumbent upon us to be fair continue, that grammar schools are taking an to our witnesses. When the grammar school group increasingly mixed intake: 88% of grammar schools came before us, they were at pains to say that they took children with Cs and Ds last year. were not there to advocate the retention of the 11- plus as it currently exists. There seemed to be no Q202 Mr Fraser: If, as you are saying, grammar support for that at all, whether they were lining up schools can have an amount of academically behind Costello or not. What they were adamant in orientated curriculum, in eVect they are being denied saying to us was that a form of academic selection a voice in identifying the pupils who would benefit was necessary and they were suggesting that most from that curriculum. computerised adaptive testing, a special computer- V Angela Smith: Because it is not the schools who are based profile, o ered a surer and a better way making the choice any more. The proposal would be forward than what was proposed in Costello. It does for the parents to make the choice. The parents not seem to me that in your answers to Mr Fraser, would consult the schools and it is up to parents, if or indeed to anybody else, that has been faced up to. they wish to discuss with the staV of the school Angela Smith: I am sorry you have that view. I think whether that is the best route for their child, to do so. you are talking about Dr Morrison’s evidence. I was Grammar schools are not just about who they a little bit disappointed with Dr Morrison’s evidence admit. If they were, they would not be admitting Cs to you, which misrepresented what the pupil profiles and Ds in many schools now, because that would not do. The point I made earlier was that when he says suit their ethos. It would be the range of pupils were making their own assessments and that opportunities oVered, the curriculum oVered, of others, that does not happen. There is some merit parents would be making that choice. What we have in what Dr Morrison says. It is disappointing that at the moment is a number of young people who at Dr Morrison never approached the Department the age of 11 have one shot over two days of exams directly or CCEA who are developing the pupil and that decides which route they take. What I am profiles and piloting them, because there is some saying is that there is a choice for parents to make for merit and we should welcome the opportunity to their children at age 11; there is also a choice to be discuss that. I received copies of his papers, not made at age 14 when they choose the subjects they directly but from others who helpfully gave them to study. We are not cutting oV options for young me. They are quite technical. I think he is under a people at age 11; we are opening those up and then misapprehension about some of the work of the there is further choice at age 14 around the new pupil profiles and that is why I passed them on to curriculum. CCEA for them to make an assessment. He is right on the computer assessment tools and they have been incorporated into pupil profiles. You need that Q203Mr Fraser: How do you answer the charge that rigour and robustness of pupil profiles. Computer the abolition of academic selection results in a adaptive tests can give very valid and reliable decrease in social mobility? outcomes and I think they help prove the 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin consistency of teacher assessment. One of the things Q208 Stephen Pound: Not by the front door, not by we need to do, if parents are making an assessment the back door and not by the trap door. of the future educational route of their child, is Angela Smith: That was it. Even last week the Prime ensure they are be able to make an informed choice. Minister again reiterated that there is no return to I should agree with him on the computer academic selection in England. The fact is that the assessment tools. proposals put forward in the White Paper in England, particularly in terms of banding, are trying to increase “comprehensivisation” in England. Q205 Mr Fraser: Whatever is adopted in terms of the What we are saying is that we need to change the pupil profile, are you determined to meet curriculum in Northern Ireland to be more international standards of validity and reliability? responsive to future needs and to the economy and Angela Smith: I am not aware that there is an we need to have a better way of deciding how young international standard, but there will be standards of people move from primary to post-primary. reliability. These are professional judgments being made by professional teachers. We are confident that the relationship between the teacher giving the Q209 Sammy Wilson: In your submission to the information to the parents each year, really Committee on this particular issue, a number of replacing the annual report with the pupil profile— things do require some explanation. First of all you it will include class work, teacher observation—is talk about the widening profile in the grammar reliable and robust. It is not a replacement for a schools as though this were something grammar selection tool. It is important to note that it is a schools were deliberately pursuing. Is it not a fact diVerent kind of assessment. It is not replacing the that the Department set the criterion that if someone transfer tests; it is a kind of assessment. We are applies for a grammar school place below an A grade confident that it is robust and can give the or a B grade and there are places available, they are information that parents need to make an obliged to take those people and if the Department informed choice. wants that changed the Department can change it, but it has consistently refused to do so. Angela Smith: I am not apportioning blame; it is not Q206 Mr Fraser: There seems to be a determination a matter of blame, it is a matter of fact. As numbers to impose the fundamental elements of the overall in the post-primary sector decline and are set comprehensive system in Northern Ireland. That is to decline more there are more applications to the charge which has been laid. It goes against the grammar schools and they will take a wider range of wish of the people in Northern Ireland when you intake. That is a matter of fact not blame. It has gone look at the statistics. The Prime Minister and the up and this year was 9% Cs and Ds; it was 4% last 4 Secretary of State for Education Ruth Kelly are year, so you can see that increasing. That is why I currently trying to mitigate the consequences of that say, if you are talking about changing the profile of failure elsewhere in the United Kingdom. How do grammar schools, that it will happen by default if you balance that? nothing is done. You say that grammar schools are Angela Smith: I do not agree with your assessment obliged: they are not actually obliged. A grammar of that. school can apply to the Department if it feels that a grammar school education would be detrimental to the education of that child; the grammar school can Q207 Chairman: I did not think you would. apply to not take that particular child if the Angela Smith: I listened carefully and I am sure you education in the school would be detrimental. This appreciate that the point has been made to me on year only three grammar schools made that more than one occasion. We are not imposing the application and 155 pupils were refused admission to kind of comprehensive system you are talking about, grammar schools on that basis. A grammar school is the one-size-fits-all comprehensive system. That is not obliged to take a child if he or she would not one of the diYculties. You interjected and I have to benefit from grammar school education. respond to that. With respect, it is one of the diYculties of what is a very complex issue, a change in the curriculum, a change in the transfer process, Q210 Sammy Wilson: I was hoping you would give which cannot in a nutshell just be about the end of me the answer you have given me. If you follow your academic selection. It is not just about academic logic on this, and given what you have said in selection, it is about a completely diVerent kind of paragraph 8 of your submission to us that educational system which challenges every child, “Grammar schools are currently seen as the gets the best out of every child. The pupil profiles are preferred choice of many parents and the combination of this and falling pupil numbers is very important in that. In terms of academic V selection, both the Secretary of State for Education having the e ect of “ and you list a number of things, is it therefore not logical to suggest that, given the and the Prime Minister made it very clear in Prime proposals which we have, contained in this draft Minister’s Questions in the Secretary of State’s document, that process is going to accelerate statements to the House that the White Paper in because the popular schools, whether we like it or England is not a return to academic selection. I cannot remember the exact quote from Ruth Kelly 4 Correction from Minister: [delete last year and insert] five but she made it very, very clear in numerous years ago speeches she has made and as recently as last week— 5 Correction from Minister: 12 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin not, are grammar schools, and if there is an open- of particular need the enhanced provision, the wrap- door policy, that is exactly what you are going to get. around provision extended to schools, SureStart, Therefore it defies logic to say later on in the after-school clubs, breakfast clubs and that kind of document that grammar schools are not being wider provision across government supporting the abolished and comprehensive schools are not being education system and that funding goes forward to imposed, because you are going to have a wider support that; £28 million next year and £33 million range of academic ability and the grammar school the year after. It is very much looking at an ethos will be lost and a wider range of academic integrated delivery from education, from health, ability, if you have all-ability comprehensive from social development working together where schools. the need is to improve the life chances and the Angela Smith: Two points: one point is about the educational opportunities of young people in the curriculum. At the moment every single post- more deprived areas. primary school in Northern Ireland has the same curriculum taught the same way. If you want an Q212 Dr McDonnell: Do you have much confidence academic curriculum you can go to any of the that there will be a positive outcome? schools, but the grammar schools have more of a Angela Smith: Yes; I do think it is the way forward reputation for academic excellence. What we are and the way to deal with the issue. I have met with talking about is changing that curriculum so that V V heads in these areas, I have visited the schools and I there will be di erent kinds of curricula in di erent think they are doing a tremendous job. I really schools. Every school will be one third academic, admire the work they are doing in very diYcult one third technical and vocational and one third of circumstances. You will have spoken to some of the the curriculum will be chosen by the school to match heads and visited some of the schools, but in the school ethos. It may well be better in the interests circumstances which are more challenging probably of a more vocational pupil, one who has an aptitude V than any teacher in this country faces. They need in a di erent way, to apply to a school which is not additional support and one of the things which the more academic kind of school. So it is about the struck me in speaking to them was, for example, if a curriculum. It is also about the relationship which child needs speech therapy it often means the child the parent will have with the primary school to best has to be taken to a speech therapist and that is meet their child’s needs in their secondary school. delivered somewhere outside the school. Why can For some children that will of course be more we not do that in the school for the kids who need it? academic; for others it will be more vocational, but Why can we not provide a breakfast club in the every child, whatever school they are at, will have the school where the children may not get the food they opportunity to do academic and vocational courses. need before they come to school? Why not have an after-school club at that school which will keep Q211 Dr McDonnell: You mentioned the child in the children so they can do their homework in school Shankill Road and that is something which has and receive extra support. If we have that wrap- perhaps been glossed over in a lot of our discussion around provision, then I really believe we can make at times. I congratulate you on the good work you adiVerence to those young people. It is not just have done in education in Northern Ireland but my saying that it is the less able; very often it is children deep concern is what we can do and what you can see who are very able but do not have the opportunities being done for the child who has not achieved, for to fulfil their potential. A fund of £28 million sounds the disadvantaged areas. I see it essentially mainly like a lot of money, but it is really a pilot to see how for disadvantaged Protestant areas. You mentioned this works. If we can really get government working the Shankill there and there are others as well which together across departments to make a diVerence for are not exclusively on that side of the divide, but the young people, then we start to break down the kind worst black spots appear to be concentrated in of issues and concerns we have about young people places like the Shankill. Where do you see the not achieving. education system and the changes making a diVerence for those children? I think the inclination Q213Mr Anderson: May I take you back to the of what you said was that it was all above their heads education action zones? We asked the people from and some of them felt it did not even relate to them. Belfast area partnerships about them and in their Angela Smith: I think you are quite right in that. view they were announced but nothing further This is not something which education alone can happened. Is that a fair comment? resolve. If we were to say that the education system Angela Smith: It is but the announcement today will on its own can deal with social disadvantage, help. It was not that nothing happened; perhaps education disadvantage, it cannot; it has to be done everyone was not kept as well informed as they across government. The Secretary of State today should have been. A lot of work was undertaken: £2 announced the budget and the children and young million was made available to each Board area to persons’ package in that budget places £28 million bring forward plans. Two costed proposals for each next year and £33 million the year after for area were to be given to the Department. Looking at improving the life chances of children and young that now, it has been overtaken by this new fund people. Part of that will be building on the work we which the Secretary of State announced finally today have done around education action zones, rather in the Budget; it was announced in the draft Budget than just having two education action zones in each a few weeks ago. So we can now extend the benefits Board area, rolling across Northern Ireland in areas from those areas much wider than we would have 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin done otherwise. From today we can go back to Angela Smith: No, it will go directly to schools; the schools and give more information out, after the money will go directly to schools. It is very final budget announcement was made today. important that we have the minimum level of bureaucracy delivering this service for young people. Q214 Chairman: Will they still be called education I have been to some of the same schools as you have action zones? and I have come away with the same feelings. One of Angela Smith: Probably not; we might not call them the things I have instigated in the Department is a that. It does not really matter particularly what we sustainable schools policy and I hope to be able to call them. announce that in the not too distant future. It is not about small schools, it is about the sustainability of schools which have surplus places in the longer term. Q215 Chairman: A degree of consistency and Unless we address those kinds of issues, so we get intelligibility is always commendable in government. more funding direct to the frontline and do not fund Angela Smith: And possibly wishful thinking empty desks in schools but fund pupils and fund sometimes. Cynicism in one so young. What will be teachers, those problems will continue. So I should achieved will be that the outcomes will be very say that we are doing two things: one is looking at consistent with education action zones, but it will be the sustainability of schools in the longer term; the wider than the two proposals we would have looked other is providing extra money in those areas of at for each Education and Library Board area. greatest need to provide a wrap-around service across departments which most addresses the needs Q216 Mr Anderson: Just to be clear, did anything of those schools. I have met with the schools, I have actually happen? Did anybody go in, because they met with the heads, I met the Shankill Principals’ do not say they did? Group not so long ago and asked them what their Angela Smith: Yes, £2 million was earmarked and needs were, what would make a diVerence. That is was put in and the Boards have had staV in place how we can make a diVerence with the money we are working up proposals. It is just that it came to us that putting in. we could do more, so the proposal was to have two in each Board area, but, with the announcement of Q222 Mr Anderson: Does your Department have new money, we can do more and extend it further. responsibility for adult education or work-based learning, that sort of thing? Q217 Chairman: Our witnesses told us that nothing Angela Smith: Not the Department of Education, happened for three years. You have eVectively but one of my other departments, the Department confirmed that. for Employment and Learning. It was interesting, Angela Smith: Work was ongoing at Board level, as talking to some people recently on those particular I understand it. areas: if young people miss out on the education system it stays with them throughout their lives and Q218 Chairman: Come on. we should start getting young people involved at an Angela Smith: A level of bureaucracy which can give early age. In one of the schools I visited, the money direct to schools would be more eVective. Downshire School I mentioned earlier on, you have Chairman: Mr Anderson has highlighted a very a new school which is an amalgamated school and as important point. Do you want to pursue it any part of that school they have an adult education more? centre and they have a mother and toddler group, so you are bringing in the community as a whole. Part of the new money we are talking about there for the Q219 Mr Anderson: I do, because it links into the next two years will be for things like parenting whole feeling we had when we were over there that support. Some of the schools I have visited have this was a most depressing time because people just already had the parenting coordinator, where a felt hopeless. We asked about Costello and we really member of staV has worked with parents on their pressed them on this and people said the truth was parenting skills and helped parents give the support that it meant nothing to them, it would not change their children need. I know we are sometimes what was happening to their children. That has to be accused of being a nanny state, but if you speak to an indictment. How will it help them? parents who have had support and have received Angela Smith: One of the things is the package I have parenting skills, they will tell you how much they mentioned of £28 million and £33 million. The other value them and how much of a diVerence being able one is having a much better policy on sustainable to give the best support to their young child has schools in the longer term. made to them.
Q220 Chairman: Is this new money? Q223Mr Anderson: Some concerns have been Angela Smith: This is new money. People in expressed to me by some of the young people over Northern Ireland have paid a 19% rate increase to there that there are going to be changes to some of pay for this and that money is going into these two the work-based funding. May I write to you on that new packages. for some clarification? Angela Smith: Drop me a note on that. It is not the Q221 Lady Hermon: Does that go to individual Department of Education, but with one of my other boards? hats on I shall be happy to get back to you on it. 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 47
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Chairman: We shall let Mr Anderson follow up on VEP, which is the crucial part of progress, what that. would you do? Would you then be directing this self- selective collaborative process? Angela Smith: We should have to if it did not work, Q224 Gordon Banks: A lot of administrative changes but the evidence is that it is working. Eleven and a are being promoted in Northern Ireland at the half thousand pupils are involved, 160 schools, 16 moment and what we are talking about today is just further education colleges and we can test how that one of them. Critics have highlighted an absence of is working and use that as a pilot. There is no any costing in the Costello proposals. You have put evidence that it will not work; the evidence from forward a statement that there will be £24.7 million VEP is very encouraging. between 2005 and 2008 to support the phased introduction of the new arrangements, but that you do not know the overall costs at the end. Where did Q227 Stephen Pound: Are those current figures? the £24.7 million come from? How did you arrive Angela Smith: Those are current figures at the at that? moment. Angela Smith: That was an assessment which was Stephen Pound: I shall look forward to reading those made by the Department of money which would be figures in the transcript; I have not seen them. needed. There were costs with Costello; there are also savings to be made through Costello. Until we Q228 Chairman: Could we come back to money and know exactly what the collaborative arrangements Mr Banks? You were answering his first question will be between schools and between schools and FE and you seemed to give the impression that this Y institutions, it is di cult to work out exactly. I was figure of £24.7 million was very much a guestimate told recently of a school which has built a new rather than an estimate. Is that unfair? technology facility for its pupils and yet half a mile Angela Smith: No, it is something which has been up the road there was an identical facility in an FE costed by the Department as money we need. I do college which was greatly underused. The sharing of not have the calculations in front of me, but I can facilities is important and is one of the savings I write to you with more detail. It is something which would identify. It would be wrong for me as Minister has been costed by the Department as money to dictate in areas what kind of collaborative required. arrangement best suits an area. I met some Chairman: We should like to see the detail. secondary heads recently who were already working on what they would do post Costello and how they would collaborate. Proposals will be coming out Q229 Gordon Banks: As with any new system which from diVerent areas and then we can do some more is introduced, the establishment costs have an detailed costings as they come forward. impetus on getting something up and running. You mentioned savings as well. In the long term do you see these proposals reducing the cost of post- Q225 Stephen Pound: I am very interested in that. primary education per head in Northern Ireland in Burns talked about the 20 collegiates and by and the future or adding to it? large they were not massively popular across Angela Smith: A lot of things are happening at the Northern Ireland as a whole. How does what you same time. It is very diYcult to isolate the impact one have just said fit in with the apparent lack of impetus particular proposal would have. We have several behind the Burns’ collegiates? very small schools and we are saying to all schools Angela Smith: What was wrong with the Burns that you have to collaborate to oVer this wider report was that people looked at it and were quite curriculum. I know some of the rural areas are a bit appalled to be told how they would amalgamate and concerned, but I am determined that kids in rural collaborate. We think it is better to let the local areas areas will not be disadvantaged and have less resolve that themselves. If it is partnership through opportunity than those in urban areas. It is diYcult choice, they are more likely to be successful. to tell. It would be diYcult to say at this stage that it Wearing one of my other hats, FE colleges have would be more expensive, because there are savings already announced a reduction in the administration to be made. of FE colleges; there will be six units of FE colleges. They are quite excited about collaborating with schools and some of the older pupils on the skills Q230 Chairman: But you do not have a clue. base which they can provide education on. It will be Angela Smith: No, it is not fair to say I do not have a case, in each area, of developing proposals, a clue; it is just putting an exact figure on it. If you bringing those forward and then we can cost them in want an exact figure, I would be very reluctant to do detail. We should be able to get some early that. There are costs involved in setting it up, but in indications, but they will not be as detailed as when the longer term significant savings will also be made. we get the final reports. It would depend on the collaborative arrangements in each area. I know that there are some scare stories about the extent of costs, but I do not accept those. Q226 Stephen Pound: How does that factor in with We need to make better use of the money we have the vocational enhancement programme? If you available at the moment and I have been convinced have that degree of “let a thousand flowers throughout my time in the Department of Education bloom”—and I respect where you are coming from that we are not making best use of the money we on that—but people are not working in line with the have and we are disadvantaging pupils because of 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Ev 48 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin that. I do not think there would be significant extra Q235 Mr Campbell: On piloting, the issue of pupil costs because of the savings which will come through profiling has raised concern, notwithstanding any collaboration. inaccurate perception to which you have already alluded, but has there been any piloting of profiling? Angela Smith: No. Q231 Gordon Banks: You are also not of the opinion at this point that these proposals will make a saving per head. Q236 Mr Campbell: Have you any independent Angela Smith: I am not looking to save money. If evaluation of that? there are savings, they would be put back to improve Angela Smith: I do not know whether members had the education system. I am not looking to make the opportunity to look at the CCEA website. The savings. CCEA website has all the information on the pilots; it has the responses from parents, from teachers; it Q232 Gordon Banks: I was talking purely in terms of has what the pupil profile looks like. I put some of post-primary education per head. I know that there that information in my submission to you. There has is an area where money can be dispersed throughout been a lot of misconception and that is why I am very the education budget but I should have thought the pleased that CCEA put it on their website. There Department would have isolated whether these have been criticisms. Dr Morrison made criticisms in proposals were actually going to have a positive or a his evidence to the Committee and I hope I explained negative eVect on the overall budget. why some of that criticism was unfounded and based on inaccurate information. I should be very keen to Angela Smith: We do not anticipate any negative see a much wider debate on the pupil profiles. I am eVect on the budgets. very confident about them. They do seem to be meeting the needs we have. I met with CCEA again Q233 Gordon Banks: In relation to making good use yesterday and I met with them previously, just of money, what do you say about the financial looking at this and working out what the responses implications of the proposal from Belfast Royal are and some concerns I had about issues which I Academy “. . . that best practice requires that have asked them questions about. Yes, they do seem change be made on the basis of an in-depth analysis to be very reliable, but there is further piloting to be of the costs involved and, where possible, piloting of done, further testing and if further adaptations need that change”. Bearing in mind that the Government to be made then they can be made. are not averse to piloting new projects, what is your view in relation to the benefits of piloting the changes? Q237 Chairman: Would you give an undertaking to Angela Smith: In a sense the vocational the Committee that you would devote a lot of enhancement programme is piloting the changes in attention to this during the transition period until the curriculum; we have 160 schools, 16 FE colleges, 2008? and 11,500 pupils involved. We have also been going Angela Smith: I certainly give a commitment that I through a stage-by-stage process of change with the shall continue to give a lot of attention to it. RPA and with the Costello proposals. It would be very diYcult to pilot the end of selection, because Q238 Gordon Banks: You mentioned Dr Morrison having some children doing it and others not doing again and, notwithstanding the inaccuracy you it would create an imbalance. In terms of how the pointed out, in his evidence to the Committee curriculum works out, that has been very carefully Dr Morrison said the following, “The profile meets organised and piloted. Pupil profiles have been no international standards. The curriculum we are piloted and continue to be piloted by CCEA and getting is a progressivist curriculum. The Americans there is ongoing work on that. A lot of work has abandoned that curriculum in the 1960s because of been ongoing on this for some time. I have spoken its impact on the poor”. What is your view of that? to a number of heads and schools who are already looking at the kind of collaborative arrangements Angela Smith: I do not recognise what he says as they would undertake. Some schools are already having any relation to the curriculum we are collaborating in terms of sixth form provision. introducing. It is not a progressivist curriculum: it is a very structured curriculum. The situation in America was not about pupil profiles: the situation Q234 Gordon Banks: So you would argue the pilot is in America was where young people went into going the other way. schools with that kind of curriculum and decided Angela Smith: A lot of work is going on currently. what they were going to study that day. It was very Some schools would argue for more piloting if they much a case of the pupils leading the way. That is not do not want to see the changes go ahead, but we do the case here. This is a structured curriculum. What have to make a decision that there has to be some happened in the American system, which we would change in the system, otherwise change will be not do, was that teachers were told how to teach forced upon us by falling rolls and it is better that we that. I should not presume to do that; that is not the are in charge of change and managing that change role of the Department at all. Teachers will teach the rather than have it happen by default. subject in the way they are taught to teach by their Chairman: Let us hope the pilot weathers the storm. own training methods. 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
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14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Q239 Chairman: Would you discuss this with Dr Q244 Sammy Wilson: The test it has to meet, given Morrison? He is a man of great eminence and that these are going to be used as guidance reputation. Would you be prepared to invite him in documents for parents in making selections for to see you to discuss this? youngsters as to which is the best school to send Angela Smith: Dr Morrison has never made any them to, is how parents will react to them. They have approach to the Department or CCEA. not been used for that purpose yet, so we do not know how parents are likely to react. Q240 Chairman: Would you be prepared to invite Angela Smith: We have involved parents in the him? profiles; parents have been very much part of the Angela Smith: I should welcome him speaking to me profiles. about it. I am a bit disappointed that he has not chosen to do so. He has addressed the papers, but I Q245 Sammy Wilson: The point is that they will only do think it is inappropriate to have this kind of be a meaningful document when a parent is faced discussion in the letters page of the Belfast with having to go to a series of schools and use this as Telegraph. I have asked CCEA to look at his papers; the basis for choosing which school is best for their I have both of them with me. I should welcome more youngster. Can you honestly say that when parents, information from him. who may have a desire to send their youngster to a Chairman: That is helpful. We shall take this as a grammar school—as you have said, that will be the publicly issued invitation and let us hope he preference for most parents, even currently—read accepts it. through a document like this and it does not really Gordon Banks: We shall look forward to the show that a grammar school is best for his response. youngster, at that stage do you really think the parents are going to take this document as a robust Q241 Chairman: Yes, we shall look forward to the and rigorous assessment of their youngster or will response. Could you keep us informed? they simply say the teacher did not really like their Angela Smith: I should be very happy to do so. youngster? Chairman: That would be very helpful. Angela Smith: You seem to be working on the basis that the parent will be presented with a pupil profile Q242 Sammy Wilson: Earlier on the Minister said and that is it and they go away and make a choice. that as far as she was concerned, and she is quite There will be a relationship. Instead of the annual right of course, the pupil profile must have rigour report the parent will get the pupil profile each year and robustness. of the child’s education in primary school. As well as Angela Smith: Yes. the profile, the parents are getting clear guidance from CCEA on how to use the profile, they will get Q243Sammy Wilson: I have to say that when I look guidance from the school as well. It is not just a case at the pupil profile here, it is peppered with these of “Here’s a document, go away and do what you boxes asking for teacher comments. Having been a will with it”. There is a relationship between the teacher myself and having seen the wide variation parent and the school and guidance from CCEA on just within one school in the kind of subjective how the profile can be used. comments and subjective ways in which teachers can make those comments about youngsters where you Q246 Lady Hermon: You seem extraordinarily would expect some consistency, yet you sometimes confident about the success and usefulness of pupil get some complaints about that, how are you going profiling. Can you actually point to some evidence, to ensure rigour and robustness in a document which whether it be international or whether it be in relies mostly on teacher comments, though I accept another part of the United Kingdom, where in fact that there are parts here which talk about levels? it has actually worked and been successful? Angela Smith: It is a mixture of having the level and Angela Smith: It is very diYcult to do so, because the comments. That is why I said the computer there is no education system like that in Northern assessment support was important and that has been Ireland anywhere else in the world. undertaken, which seems to have been forgotten in this and that is why they have been piloted in the way they have. I do not know whether you have had the Q247 Lady Hermon: Are our children being guinea opportunity to look at the results of the pilot on the pigs? website and look at the information. You may be Angela Smith: No, because we have a diVerent quite reassured by the kind of information which has system. We have to look at something which is right been put on the profiles. I have had the opportunity for Northern Ireland and the confidence I have on to see them and read them. It is also a professional this is because I have had the opportunity to speak judgment and teachers are being trained in how to to CCEA, to look at the information, to see how it do this and the best way to do it. I think you are is working. We do have the opportunity, where we implying that it is very hit and miss, there is no think there are deficiencies in it, to alter or change it, professionalism behind them. I can reassure you that because it is an ongoing process until it comes into there is a great deal of professionalism and operation. I suppose the confidence I have comes assessment behind them which ensures that they are from seeing the deficiencies in the current system robust and stand up to those kinds of tests which you which has enormous benefits but also is letting down want them to do. a number of children as well. 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Ev 50 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Q248 Chairman: I think your confidence is based on funding for the schools which take on specialist faith rather than experience. status, they will get an extra £100 per pupil for four Angela Smith: In some ways it is, but it is experience years and a one-oV capital grant of £100,000. of looking at how it is working. The reason we profile anything and pilot things is to see how Q252 Chairman: A capital grant of £100,000 and V e ective it can be. I have been quite prepared, if I was £100 per pupil for four years. not happy with the results of those pilots, to say Angela Smith: Yes. We can calculate the final totals “Forget it. We’re not going to do this. It doesn’t once we have announced the list of schools, but it work”. gives a distinct ethos to those schools and I cannot at this stage tell you which will be successful; hopefully Q249 Lady Hermon: How large is the pilot? around ten,. Angela Smith: Fairly small at the moment; initially small though it has been extended. Q253Chairman: Are those figures irrespective of the size of the school, the number of pupils? Angela Smith: It is an amount per pupil. Q250 Chairman: How small is small? Angela Smith: About 206 schools at present. One of the things I was a little concerned about and I Q254 Chairman: No, the capital provided. pressed the question of what kind of schools they Angela Smith: Yes, it is. were, whether they were schools where the parents would be the easiest to engage? I am assured that is Q255 Lady Hermon: You said you were not the case. I have seen evidence for myself. I have disappointed with the geographical spread. Are the a school in my constituency where the primary head ones which have been short-listed across Northern said pupils would not get their annual report unless Ireland, or are they concentrated in one area? parents came to receive it and talk. Every single Angela Smith: Four ELB areas are represented parent except one went in and spoke to the head to overall. There was a good spread from the get the report. In the same way, we can engage applications we had in, but the short-list has not parents in pupil profiles in the most diYcult areas, quite such a good spread. Four Education and because you build up a relationship between the Library Board areas are represented on the short- school and the parents and that in itself is important list. for the development of the young person in primary school. Q256 Chairman: Is there a reasonable balance between town and country? Q251 Rosie Cooper: Earlier you mentioned a Angela Smith: They are mostly urban, though not possible future announcement of specialist schools. entirely. Will the development of specialist schools result in more fragmentation or will it result in a real increase Q257 Sammy Wilson: Some of the rural ones in parental choice? What about the cost of it? mentioned to me that the big problem was, Angela Smith: Development of specialist schools is especially in a small town, the £25,000 which they not another group of schools but something which had to raise. In some of the bigger urban areas it was overlays the schools we have at present. The possible to get sponsors, but there was a diYculty applications went out to all post-primary schools getting sponsors if you were in a small town. Is that and they could apply to be included in the pilot for something you could look at? specialist schools. We had 46 applications and the Angela Smith: That is right. It was half the amount geographical spread was not as great as I should which was required in England; we reduced it to try have liked, but there was a spread across diVerent to make it easier. That is something we can look at kinds of schools. We have short-listed 13 of those in the future. This is just a pilot to see how eVective schools, purely on the basis of the quality of the it can be in a Northern Ireland setting. As we analyse applications they put in: four controlled secondary; the results of the first wave, if it has been eVective, I four maintained secondary; one integrated; two should like to see a second wave. That is something maintained grammar; two controlled grammar, we need to look at. although one controlled grammar school has pulled out at present. I do not know whether they are likely to want to be considered in the future, but they are Q258 Chairman: Can you keep the Committee running a number of initiatives at present and do not informed on that, because I think this is an area in wish to be included at this stage. The specialisms are: which we are all interested? ICT, performing arts, business and enterprise, Angela Smith: I shall be very happy to do that. science, music and languages, across those areas. It is a way of giving a distinctive ethos to a school. My Q259 Rosie Cooper: May I throw you one from left experience in my constituency, when I was initially field, which is a misnomer on this page. I really want a little sceptical of specialist schools, has been very to knock the last three letters oV and talk about encouraging. Let us test it to see whether it works in special schools in the way we talk about them in the Northern Ireland system. There is additional England? Where do those children who are visually or hearing impaired, perhaps multi-handicapped, fit 6 Correction from Minister: [delete 20 and] insert 120 into the Northern Ireland education system? 3249641003 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 51
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin
Angela Smith: Under the SENDO, the Special side of it is better joined-up working between Educational Needs and Disability (NI) Order, departments. There is an anomaly here sometimes parents have an opportunity to put children into where you have a decision made by the Department mainstream education. We have special schools as of Education about what the needs are and the well and we have special schools units within provision has to be delivered by the Department of mainstream schools. There is a range of provision, Health. I also think there are complexities in having but there is the opportunity now for parents who five Education and Library Boards delivering that. wish their children to be educated in the mainstream, We have five Education and Library Boards with with the appropriate support provided, to have five diVerent policies on special educational needs mainstream education. We have seen a growth in the and I do not think that is the best way to address the requirement for special needs education and quite problem. dramatic increases. I have put significant additional money into special needs education in the last year. I cannot recall the exact figure, but I can let the Q262 Sammy Wilson: You have indicated the Committee have the exact figures. It is a need. One benefits of the collaboration between schools. We of the things which concerns me is that we need to took some evidence on it last week and there were identify children who have special needs very early several concerns. The first concern was about on so we can meet those needs better and sometimes timetabling. The evidence we had from St prevent those becoming more acute special needs, if Catherine’s College was “We have a three-way we have identified them early on. There is a lot of system going ...It puts constraints on us, work going on in that area. The more we can provide obviously. The timetabling demands a lot of liaison. classroom assistants in schools the better. This has It is possible and it is feasible and in the last number been a budgetary pressure, or there has been an issue of years we have expanded that further”. Under where you might have three or four classroom further questioning it turned out that about 25 assistants in one class and none in another because it pupils were involved in that. If having 25 pupils in a has been led by statementing. We are improving the school puts pressure on the timetable and the provision for children with special educational timetabling arrangements, how do you envisage a needs. smooth working of a system which requires the whole of the sixth form to move around and this between schools which are close together? Q260 Chairman: Do you recognise that there will Angela Smith: It is one of those areas where we have always be some children for whom a special school to ensure that every young person gets access to a is the only sensible option? wider curriculum. If you look at the size of schools, Angela Smith: Yes; both for them and in some cases you have some schools which are oVering a handful the staV and other children. of A levels; I can think of one school which only oVered one A level. In terms of providing Q261 Dr McDonnell: Is there some mechanism in the opportunities for young people, we cannot do that new system which you intend or are working hard at and that is why collaboration is so important. It does whereby children with special needs can get some involve complexities in the timetabling; I fully more resource, some more attention? I am thinking appreciate that. It does not necessarily mean particularly of the twilight zone; I am thinking of additional costs go with that and the sharing of Asperger’s syndrome; I am thinking of AD/HD. It is resources can also help. The pilot for the vocational my experience that a lot of this ultimately feeds a enhancement programme with 11,500 pupils frustration through adolescent years and ultimately involved in that shows how it can work and it will be may very well feed into some of our youth suicides. for individual schools to look at how it can work. Speaking to the parents of children who fall into You may be aware of the case in one area, Cross and those categories, it does not appear to be well looked Passion College and Ballycastle High School, where after. Could we ask you perhaps whether there is post 16 you have two schools across both some mechanism for an improved system, an communities jointly doing their A levels. That seems improved interface between education and health on to me to be the model of the kind of education that? I feel that the split responsibility ends up with system we want to see and I congratulate both those nobody responsible. schools on being able to do that. It does present Angela Smith: Having been a Health Minister prior challenges, it presents new ways of working, but it to being the Minister for Education, I am acutely does not necessarily mean, as some people have said, aware of that issue. One of the things we want to that you put the kids in a bus and bus them to the ensure in the children and young people’s package other side of town. It may be that teachers’ which I mentioned earlier is better linkages between timetables are altered, it may be that we encourage health and education and working across teachers, we may do more interactive learning with departments. There is additional money. Even young people, but I really do not think we can though we are seeing pupil numbers falling we are disadvantage particularly young people in rural putting additional money into special educational areas and not oVer them the same kind of needs; in the current budget an extra £5 million and opportunities in the curriculum as we can oVer those £15 million. I put extra money in when I announced in urban areas. It will require new ways of working. my amendment to the budget last year. Yes, it is I have spoken to a number of heads who said that it partly financially led and we need to put in was challenging but they are going to make it work. additional money, which we are doing, but the other I am very confident that the determination to oVer 3249641003 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:25:58 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG3
Ev 52 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
14 December 2005 Angela E Smith MP, Mr David Woods and Ms Jacqui McLaughlin those opportunities will ensure it does. We are not Q265 Chairman: That would be helpful. going to say on day one that they have to oVer this. Angela Smith: It may be a bit too soon to get that, We shall work with schools who find it diYcult and but as soon as something is available. ensure that we give them the support they need. Q266 Chairman: We shall write to you on that. We shall also be writing to you about the entitlement Q263Sammy Wilson: It is significantly going to framework because I should like rather a detailed happen where schools are together. When we visited answer there and I think the Committee would. We St Gabriel’s, a small secondary school, I spoke to the are running out of time and all colleagues have had head and asked about arrangements for cooperation the chance to ask you questions so may I thank you in North Belfast. There can be diVerent diYculties. for the good humoured and honest way in which you He pointed out that collaboration in North Belfast, have sought to answer them. You have taken on a with youngsters moving across four or five dividing major responsibility and you are going to be passing lines to get to the next school where there could be on a number of incomplete files to your successors, collaboration, really is just not feasible. who will take over when devolved government is Angela Smith: It may not be the youngsters; it may restored. Your commitment is quite clear and we be the teachers who are moving. I really do not think shall be reflecting on your answers. We may well we can say that because there are diYculties we wish to follow up by correspondence on some of cannot oVer the same kind of curriculum. We these points. already have a number of small schools which are Angela Smith: Thank you. May I thank you for the oVering 10 A levels, so some schools are finding ways opportunity to meet the Committee today? One of of doing that already. It may not be appreciated by the things which I hope I have highlighted is that this the entire Committee, but the number of schools is a very wide subject and I should be grateful for the which have fewer than 300 pupils is very large in opportunity to come back to members on any issues Northern Ireland and yet Saint Gabriel’s has 197 they are concerned about. One of the things which pupils and they are already oVering 14 GCSE struck me when I first looked at this was that I was subjects, so they have gone a long way towards being presented with what appeared to be quite a meeting the needs already. There will be ways in small issue on academic selection, but it is actually which they can work with other schools locally to much wider and has the potential to give enormous oVer a wider range of subjects to young people. benefits to Northern Ireland. I shall be happy to come back on any questions members may have. Q264 Sammy Wilson: On the results so far where you Chairman: We are very grateful for that. We should have these collaborative ventures, have you had any like you, if you would, just to stay for a moment or indication as to how the results in those cases two privately with the Committee but may I publicly compare with the results of youngsters who are wish you a very happy Christmas, a good New Year taught within the one school? and hope that you might be passing on your Angela Smith: I do not have figures, but I can try to responsibilities during that new year and I think that get some more information on that for you. is what you hope too. I declare the public session Sammy Wilson: Just if there is anecdotal evidence. closed. 3249641013 Page Type [SO] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 53 Written evidence
Written evidence (dated November 2005) from the Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association
POST-PRIMARY EDUCATION IN NORTHERN IRELAND
Executive Summary 1. We are grateful for the opportunity to put before Members of the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee our main concerns about the Government’s proposals for post-primary education. 2. We have no desire to retain the present Transfer Test (the 11!). We recognise the need for change to enhance the educational experience of many of our young people, not least through the provision of a diversity of pathways to enable them to develop their talents, whether academic or vocational, to the full in schools perceived to enjoy equality in prestige and public esteem. 3. Our objections to the policy based on implementation of the recommendations in the Costello Report are: (a) The proposed admissions arrangements are flawed The proposed system is incapable of delivering the objective of matching pupils to schools best suited to their abilities. (b) The Costello curriculum is unworkable The proposed curriculum in most cases can only be provided by collaboration between schools on a scale wasteful of resources, teaching and financial, and will be prejudicial to discipline, pastoral care and identity with a particular campus. (c) Social mobility would decline The proposed changes would decrease social mobility rather than increase it. (d) Examination results would deteriorate The proposed system would lead to a decline in examination performance of children in Northern Ireland. (e) The proposals lack any estimate of costs (f) The proposals lack democratic approval Fundamental changes to the education system in Northern Ireland are being imposed against the will of a majority of parents and teachers as registered in a survey of households carried out by the Department of Education itself and confirmed by subsequent opinion polls commissioned by the media.
4. A Positive Alternative There is a workable alternative which addresses these objections. We believe that, rather than rush ahead with the introduction of legislation to implement proposals which are not fit for purpose, the alternative should now be fully evaluated.
5. Our Objections in Further Detail
5.1 The proposed admissions arrangements are flawed 5.1.1 The Costello Report states that, “the fundamental principle . . . should be informed choice by parents and pupils” and that this should be based on a “pupil profile” drawn up by the primary school.1 5.1.2 The profile being proposed is conceptually flawed, does not meet international standards and is incapable of being amended to make it an acceptable instrument.2 5.1.3 Parental choice would be reduced rather than increased, with schools which are highly regarded being vastly over-subscribed. At present 88% of parents secure a place in their first choice of school.3 5.1.4 Parental choice in the terms proposed would increase inequality as schools would give precedence to pupils from their local community, benefiting families with the financial resources to move into areas adjacent to perceived “good schools”. A recent study of transfer in the Republic of Ireland by Maeve O’Brien concluded that the concept of equal choice was a myth since, “middle class parents possess a greater economic and cultural capital which aVords them and their children a greater range of choice than those in more disadvantaged circumstances.”4 3249641004 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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5.2 The Costello curriculum is unworkable 5.2.1 Dr Morrison of Queen’s University Belfast has demonstrated that there is a complete equivalence between the curriculum proposed by CCEA (The Northern Ireland Council for Curriculum and Assessment) and educational “progressivism” which American schools rejected in the 1960s.5 The principal reason for the demise of progressivism was its negative impact on disadvantaged children in general, and the children of the working class black community in particular. There is therefore a total contradiction between a stated concern of the Costello Report to ameliorate social disadvantage in education and a proposed curricular model rejected four decades ago because of its deleterious eVects on the poor. 5.2.2 The proposed curriculum requires pupils to have access to 24 subjects at GCSE and 27 subjects post GCSE, but only a handful of Northern Ireland’s schools are suYciently large to oVer this level of choice. The proposed solution is to require schools to co-ordinate provision and to share resources, with new bureaucratic structures created to co-ordinate the process at a number of levels.6 In eVect, pupils and teachers would need to be shuttled between schools and it has even been suggested that classes could be delivered via video link. While voluntary co-operation is desirable, where practical, the type of compulsory co-operation which would be required presents a huge variety of problems concerning issues such as co- ordination of timetables, transport and safety, time wasted in travel, pastoral care and discipline. Many of these problems have already been experienced in England, where secondary and grammar schools were amalgamated in the late 1960s and early 1970s to provide the school sizes required by comprehensive education. Problems encountered by the split-site model have led to its abandonment in many cases, with the rationalisation of schools on a single site. Large schools would be necessary to accommodate the entire ability range and this presents further diYculties. Recent research from the US National Centre for Education Statistics concluded “As school enrolment increased, so did the likelihood of schools reporting each (categorized) discipline problem . . . 26% of principals at schools with 1,000 or more students reported student verbal abuse of teachers, compared to 14% of schools with 500–999 students, 10% of schools with 300–499 students, and 7% of schools with less than 300 students.”7
5.3 Social mobility would decline
5.3.1 Since 1947 children in Northern Ireland, irrespective of their socio-economic category or residential location, have been able to avail themselves of an opportunity to maximise their achievements according to their abilities. Hundreds of thousands from socially deprived backgrounds have been the first in their family to benefit from a university education, having gained the entry requirements in grammar schools, secondary schools and further education colleges. At present 41.3% of students accepted into higher education in Northern Ireland are drawn from the four lowest socio-economic groups, compared to only 28.4% for the United Kingdom as a whole.8 5.3.2 If the Government’s current proposals were implemented, selection by ability would be replaced by selection on the basis of class and economic power. Middle-class children would go to middle-class schools, whose catchment areas would comprise middle-class neighbourhoods, while working-class children would be left to fester in the poorer districts from which their parents are unable to escape.9 5.3.3 Obviously this would not enhance social equality, but in educational terms would increase the gap between those who have and those who have not. The eVect would be worse in Northern Ireland than in Great Britain as there is a significantly higher proportion of pupils from working-class and disadvantaged backgrounds in higher education here than elsewhere in the United Kingdom. 5.3.4 The middle-classes are much better placed to exploit the proposals and manipulate the system to secure the best deal for their children than working-class parents. 5.3.5 As schools which are highly regarded would be markedly over-subscribed, the proposals would result in selection by postcode. The choice of school would be determined by where parents can aVord to live rather than by their child’s ability. Already there are instances of parents, anticipating implementation of the proposals, moving house to gain advantage of proximity to “a good school”. Thus, for a majority, rather than further the stated objective of aVording parents greater choice, in practice their right to choose the most appropriate and suitable school for their child would be taken away. Children would have to attend the nearest school, regardless of its suitability. 5.3.6 Research suggests that a system such as is now being proposed for Northern Ireland would not remove the link between education and class but would strengthen it.10 Bright children from poor families would suVer disproportionately. A recent report on the United Kingdom, supported by the Sutton Trust, and published in April 2005, confirms that social mobility has declined since the introduction of a comprehensive system in Great Britain.11 5.3.7 The proposals would do nothing to raise the performance of schools which need assistance to improve their standing in local communities and the very children most dependent upon state education would be failed by it. 3249641004 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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5.4 Examination results would deteriorate 5.4.1 It is generally accepted that there is a link between social deprivation and examination results. One would expect, therefore, that results from Northern Ireland, which suVers higher levels of social deprivation than England and Wales, and is emerging from serious internal conflict, should have lower examination results. The reality is, however, contrary to this expectation. In 2004 60% of pupils in Northern Ireland obtained five GCSEs or equivalent at grades A*-C while the figure for England was 54% and for Wales was 51%. In the same year the percentage of pupils achieving no GCSEs were 4%, 5% and 7% for Northern Ireland, England and Wales respectively.12 5.4.2 We attribute this success to the teaching of pupils with others of similar abilities, the expertise contained within our secondary and grammar schools and the beneficial eVects of smaller average school size (see section 5.2.2), particularly in the secondary sector. Forcing all schools to accommodate the full ability range, in what would be, in eVect, a split-site comprehensive system would mean the loss of many of these strengths. The Costello Committee’s minutes record an admission that in all-ability schools “more able pupils may not be stretched fully” and that such a system “may impact on the achievements of high ability pupils”.13 We believe that a similar impact would also be felt by weaker pupils.
5.5 The proposals lack any estimates of cost The HM Treasury Green Book advocates, as a matter of best practice, the introduction of an economic appraisal framework at an early stage of consideration of a new policy proposal.14 The Costello proposals represent the most far-reaching change in Northern Ireland’s education system for more than 60 years but the Government has not published any estimate of the costs of implementation.
5.6 The proposals lack democratic approval 5.6.1 Following publication of the Burns Report in October 2001, the then Minister for Education in the devolved administration at Stormont, Mr Martin McGuinness, set in train a consultation process (cost £419,000) on its recommendations.15 When just over half of the responses had been returned to the Department he declared, “I have 100,000 responses sitting in my Department and those are the people that count.”16 The results were published in October 2002. 5.6.2 The responses from 200,551 households, including 162,000 parents and 21,000 teachers, showed that while 57% of households, 58% of parents, and 64% of teachers, were in favour of abolishing the 11!, 64% of households, 63% of parents, and 62% of teachers favoured the retention of academic selection.17 Opinion on these issues was seen to cross both class and sectarian divides. The findings were confirmed by opinion polls commissioned by the media.18 5.6.3 On the suspension of the devolved Assembly in October 2002, Mr McGuinness announced in a press statement as he left oYce that the 11! would be abolished. He made no reference to any alternative system. This decision had not been discussed at any time by the Northern Ireland Executive. 5.6.4 On the re-introduction of Direct Rule the Costello Committee was appointed, the vast majority of whose members were selected from bodies which had expressed support for ending academic selection, to advise on future arrangements. Its report, published in January 2004, dismissed the views of parents and teachers recorded in the Household Survey and other expressions of public opinion by concluding that, “a transfer test or any other means of academic selection should have no place in the transfer arrangements to post-primary education.”19 5.6.5 The Costello recommendations were accepted in full by the Government. In consequence parents in Northern Ireland have fewer rights than their counterparts in England—a situation highlighted by a statement by the Department for Education and Skills: “Where selection exists, the government believes in local decision-making as to whether it should continue and has put in place mechanisms to allow this to happen.”20
6. A Positive Vision We are not opposed to change. We wish to retain all that is best in our current system of secondary and grammar schools, while allowing them to develop to better meet the needs, abilities and aspirations of all our young people.
7. Our Proposals (a) Recognise that underachievement and inequality do not begin at age 11. (b) Preserve opportunities for academically gifted pupils to develop their talents to the full. (c) Allow schools to develop or retain specialisms which could oVer pupils genuine alternatives in terms of academic and vocational pathways. 3249641004 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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(d) Develop, in specialist schools of perceived status, technical and vocational qualifications that carry real weight and would have increased economic relevance for both pupils and prospective employers. (e) End the 11! as soon as new admissions procedures have been developed and piloted. (f) Develop a Pupil Profile that would contain information on pupil attainment that would meet international standards of reliability and validity. (g) Allow parents to make an informed choice, taking into account the advice of both primary and post- primary schools, who would have an absolute right to see the profile in advance of any decision regarding admission. In the event of oversubscription, schools should be permitted to oVer places to those pupils most likely to benefit from their provision, based on the information contained in the profile. (h) Develop a coherent strategy to address the specific problems arising from a revised assessment of the scale of demographic change. 8. Finally, it would be our wish that the introduction of legislation intended to implement proposals, which are demonstrably not fit for purpose, should be deferred so that a more holistic appraisal can be undertaken of Northern Ireland’s real educational needs. November 2005
References 1. Department of Education (2004) Future Post-Primary Arrangements in Northern Ireland: Advice from the Post-Primary review Working Group (The Costello Report), Bangor: Department of Education, P27 and 52–53. 2. Morrison H (2005a) The Case for an alternative for to the Costello Pupil Profile, Queen’s University Belfast School of Education (Unpublished paper), P3. 3. BBC Newsline Survey, 26 Jan 2004. 4. O’Brien M (2004) Making the Move: Students’, Teachers and Parents’ Perspectives of Transfer from First to Second-level Schooling, Dublin, Marino Institute of Education, P36. 5. Morrison H (2005b) The consequences for children from socially disadvantaged backgrounds of the current proposals for revising curriculum and assessment in Northern Ireland, Queen’s University Belfast (Unpublished paper), P16–25. 6. Department of Education (2004), P59–63. 7. Preston P, The Guardian, 26 July 2004. 8. Higher Education Statistics Agency, cited in John Clare, The Daily Telegraph, 30 September 2004. 9. Adonis A and Pollard P (1998), A Class Act: The Myth of Britain’s Classless Society, Penguin Books, P51–55. 10. O’Brien M (2004) P6,7,21,32,33,35,36,41 and 89. She also cites the following to support this view Bordieu (1977 and 1984), Gerwitz et al (1994), Reay and Ball (1998). 11. Blanden J, Machin S and Gregg P (2005) Intergenerational Mobility in Europe and North America: A Report Supported by the Sutton Trust, London School of Economics Centre for Economic Performance, P7 and 8. 12. Inquiry to Department of Education November 2005. 13. Minutes of the (Costello) Post-Primary review Working Group 10–11 September 2003. 14. Cited in Appendix L of Post-Primary Review Body (2001), Education for the 21st Century (The Burns Report), Bangor: Department of Education, P314. 15. Hansard: Reply by Angela Smith to PQ 05/774 Tabled by Lady Hermon. 16. Daily Mirror, 14 June 2002. 17. Department of Education (2002) Review of Post-Primary Education: report on Responses to Consultation, Bangor: Department of Education, P73 Table 2. 18. Department of Education (2002), Omnibus Survey P71 Table 1, BBC Newsline Survey 24 January 2004, Belfast Telegraph Survey 9 September 2005. 19. Department of Education (2004) P48. 20. Sunday Times, 31 July 2005. 3249641005 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence (dated 13December 2005) from the Grammar Principals’ Gr oup, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association
POST-PRIMARY EDUCATION IN NORTHERN IRELAND 1. Having raised the issue of the Costello proposals for post-primary education with the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee on two previous occasions, we thank you once again for accepting our request to investigate the matter. In this follow-up submission we wish to clarify some of the points made in our oral submission and to comment on some issues raised during your questioning of the CCMS and other representatives and during your visit to Belfast Royal Academy.
2. Democracy 2.1 It has been suggested that the Household Survey did not provide an accurate account of public opinion because of the campaigning work of grammar schools. This is analogous to suggesting that a political party should not take oYce if it got to power through a well-run political campaign. Even if we set this argument to one side, it is clear that the Household Survey was an accurate reflection of public opinion since it was confirmed by the results of an independent “Omnibus Survey” carried out contemporaneously with the Household Survey with a random sample of the population. Moreover, the BBC Newsline Survey of January 2004 and Belfast Telegraph Survey of September 2005, both with a random sample, all indicate remarkably consistent support for academic selection. Even the document submitted to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee by the CCMS recorded the results of a survey showing that a significant majority of both Catholics and Protestants favours academic selection while less than a third of the population favours mixed-ability schools. 2.2 The Costello Committee, established following the publication of the responses to the Burns Report, was not representative of opinion in Northern Ireland. Our groups made this point clear to the then Minister, Ms Kennedy, and predicted the inevitable outcome, but our objections were ignored. The Committee was used as a mechanism to subvert the will of the people. Out of 11 members only one representative was drawn from an organisation favouring academic selection, while a majority was drawn from organizations on record as opposed to academic selection and it soon transpired that the remainder held a similar view. 2.3 It is sometimes argued that some educational interests support the Costello proposals. Included in these educational interests are the teacher unions. A more powerful argument, however, is that the number of teachers responding to the Household survey roughly equates to the number of teachers in Northern Ireland’s schools and their opposition to the abolition of academic selection reflects the view of the general population and of parents. 2.4 On 6 December 2005 Ms Smith, Minister with responsibility for Education, published a Draft Order which, if passed, would implement the Costello proposals. At the same time she released the results of a consultation on admissions arrangements which was completed six months ago. While the figures do not appear in the document the Minister has admitted that at least 90% of the responses to the consultation supported academic selection. The Minister, therefore, has deliberately chosen to ignore the outcome of every public consultation and test of opinion on the issue over a period of more than three years and instead impose a policy against the clear wishes of a majority of parents and teachers. 2.5 At no time have the people of Northern Ireland had an opportunity to influence the pattern of education reform through their elected representatives. A majority of locally elected politicians opposes the Costello proposals. They would not pass if our local assembly were functioning. However, once passed, the nature of the Assembly’s voting would make reversal of any legislation impossible. 2.6 It would be inconceivable for a government, having promised the people their say, to impose such huge changes in any part of Great Britain, against both the will of the people and a majority of elected representatives in that area.
3. Cost We have already indicated our concerns about the advisability of introducing comprehensive education, a new progressive curriculum that reflects practice abandoned as unsuccessful in the USA 50 years ago, and changes to the administrative structure of the education system, some of which, by centralizing control, move in the opposite direction to policy in England. Even if we lay aside our concerns about the nature of these changes and about their simultaneous implementation, there is growing alarm at the fact that there are no estimates of the financial implications associated with any of these changes. We believe that best practice requires that change be made on the basis of an in-depth analysis of the costs involved and, where possible, piloting of that change. To proceed otherwise is to ask the people of Northern Ireland, or indeed the British tax payer, to sign a blank cheque. 3249641005 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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4. The Pupil Profile 4.1 The Costello Report views the Pupil Profile as an “integral part” of the discussion at transfer between parents and pupils and the primary school. The “Report on Responses to Consultation” following publication of the Burns Report records: “It was generally felt that the Pupil Profile should contain both qualitative and quantitative information, including some form of standardised information on attainment in subjects.” The Department of Education has stated that the profile, while not intended to rank pupils in the same way as the current transfer tests, would “provide clear and objective information about pupils’ progress, achievements aptitudes and interests.” 4.2 We contend that, irrespective of the use to which the proposed Profile is put, parents should have the right to a valid and reliable assessment of their children’s ability. Mr Clarke in his submission to the Select Committee accepted Dr Morrison’s criticisms of the proposed Profile but dismissed them as unimportant. Surely it is of the utmost importance if the Costello proposals were to be implemented, as it is an “integral part” of the decision making process. The proposed profile purports to guide parents in making an appropriate choice of post-primary school, yet Dr Morrison has demonstrated that Costello-type profiles mislead rather than guide. 4.3 Mrs Martin (CCMS) asserted in a response to a question from the Chairman of the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee that the alternative profile proposed by Dr Morrison would be “cumbersome” and “add to work” but did not oVer any evidence to support this assertion. The evidence is in fact to the contrary. The pupil profile envisaged in the Costello Report would impose a huge burden on teachers which, like its financial costs, has yet to be quantified by the Northern Ireland Council for Curriculum and Assessment.
5. Social Integration,Social Mobility and Participation in Education Post 16 5.1 Receipt of Free School Meals (FSM) is often used as a proxy for social disadvantage but it does not provide a totally accurate picture since there is a considerable proportion of pupils who would be eligible but for whom a claim is not made. Anecdotal evidence suggests that failure to apply is higher in the Protestant section of the community. 5.2 Setting aside concerns with respect to the value of FSM figures the percentage of pupils in Northern Ireland’s grammar schools in receipt of FSM is 7%. For comparison, in the top 200 state schools in England the figure is only 3%. 5.3 In 2004 the percentage of pupils in receipt of FSM in England who achieved 5 A*-C grades at GCSE was 26.1%. We do not have up-to-date figures for Northern Ireland but we do know that the figure for 1998 was 31% and that it is now above this level. 5.4 While educational underachievement among children from working class or disadvantaged backgrounds is not on the same scale as exists in other parts of these islands, it is, nevertheless, a problem that should not be ignored. More needs to be done to tackle educational disadvantage long before children reach the age of 11. Belfast Royal Academy (BRA) have been attempting to contribute to a resolution of this problem in its area through discussions with primary principals and through a scheme whereby BRA pupils spend some time each week assisting in local primary schools. The introduction of a pupil profile containing reliable and valid information on each child, rather than an 11! which some children do not sit, would identify more children from working class and disadvantaged backgrounds who would benefit from a grammar school education. 5.5 Some BRA pupils were concerned about the impression that they felt had been formed by some members of the Committee that those selected to meet the Committee were drawn from middle class backgrounds alone. Many of the young people whom the Committee met are the children of working class parents from the local area. A member of staV was also keen to explain, in response to a remark by one Committee member about the lack of black faces in our classrooms, that this reflected the very much lower number of black children in Belfast compared to some cities in Great Britain. 5.6 We are concerned that the authors of the Costello Report have not learned any lessons from the experience of Great Britain. In the words of Sir Peter Lampl, “The comprehensive system was brought in to try to improve social equality, the opposite has happened. We are supposed to have parental choice but it does not work for those at the lower end of the economic spectrum who do not have the income to move near the best schools or even pay the fares for their children to get there”. Moreover, Prof Stephen Mackin, commenting on the results of his international study on social mobility, stated with respect to grammar schools: “They were perceived as elitist and not good for social mobility but, actually, it has turned out that some kids from lower income families were helped. We probably had more people through from the bottom end to the top than we do have at the moment.” 5.7 The Submission by CCMS points to the link between social disadvantage and educational underachievement which is commonly recognized and suggests that this is compounded by academic selection. This argument, however, ignores the reality of better GCSE grades for working class and disadvantaged children in Northern Ireland than Great Britain and the very much higher percentage of such children entering higher education in Northern Ireland than any other part of these islands. 3249641005 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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5.8 While many cities in Great Britain educate a substantial proportion of their children in private schools, and such schools top the list in providing access to higher education in the south of Ireland, Northern Ireland currently has only one small private school. 5.9 There is a significant diVerential in the percentage of 16 and 17 year olds in education in Northern Ireland (78%) and in England (66.6%). This may explain why a greater proportion of our young people obtain 2 Advanced level passes at A-E grade or equivalent than their peers in England (37.7% NI: 30% England).
6. The Myth of a “Long Tail of Underachievement” It is often asserted by opponents of Northern Ireland’s education system that its excellent performance at the top end is at the cost of a poor performance at the bottom end. GCSE statistics confirm a long standing and significant lead for Northern Ireland’s pupils in terms of the proportion achieving 5! A*-C grades (60% for NI and 54% for England in 2004), while a larger proportion of Northern Ireland’s pupils obtain A grades at both GCSE (7.1% in NI as opposed to 5.6% for the UK) and Advanced Level (30% in NI as opposed to 22.4% for England and Wales) when compared to their peers in Great Britain. The “long tail of underachievement” is a myth since GCSE figures also show virtually identical results with England in terms of the proportion achieving 5! A*-G grades (88% NI: 89% England) and the proportion leaving school with no GCSEs (4% NI: 5% England) of any grade.
7. Population Statistics 7.1 It is argued that there has been a decline in the school population of Northern Ireland and that there will be a major decline in the future. In a reply to a question by Lord Maginnis, however, Lord Rooker indicated that the population estimate for 2005 printed in the Costello Report was incorrect. If the revised current estimate is correct, and we feel that it may still underestimate the reality, the actual figure for the decline of the 11–18 year old population would be 2% and not 6% as printed in the Costello Report. If we add to this the fact that the birth rate in Northern Ireland has been rising since 2000, the long run population estimates appear increasingly suspect, yet it appears that they continue to be used, unamended, by the Minister and her oYcials. 7.2 We do accept that there has been a decline in pupil numbers and that grammar schools should shoulder their share of the burden that this imposes on schools.
8. Educational Structures in Northern Ireland 8.1 We are concerned that the Select Committee should be aware that the education provision for Catholic and Protestant pupils in Northern Ireland is very similar. The vast majority of Catholic children attend either a Catholic secondary school under the control of the CCMS or a Catholic voluntary grammar school. The vast majority of Protestant pupils attend a secondary or grammar school under the control of the Education and Library Boards or a voluntary interdenominational grammar school. Grammar schools are more likely to have a religious mix than secondary schools. Approximately 29% of pupils attending BRA is Catholic, while in the Catholic sector the school with the largest percentage of Protestant pupils (31%) is Dominican College, a grammar school in Portstewart. The Committee had asked Mrs Martin from St Catherine’s College, Armagh, about the percentage of Protestant pupils in her school: the correct figure is less than 0.5%. 8.2 There is a small number of comprehensive schools in the Catholic, state, integrated and Irish language sectors. We do not have any ideological opposition to such schools and support them where they meet local needs and enjoy local support. Nevertheless, we do not see this model as appropriate for Northern Ireland as a whole. 8.3 The eVect of the implementation of the Costello Proposals, and the proposals in the Review of Public Administration, would be to re-model schools as community comprehensives under centralised control with all schools being required to deliver a prescribed curriculum mix of vocational and academic subjects. This is contrary to the current direction of policy in England where it is proposed that schools be given more freedom to manage their own aVairs and buses be used to counter the situation in which the creation of community comprehensives has led to social segregation with the children of working class or disadvantaged parents being condemned to the poorest performing schools.
9. The Grammar School Intake In a speech delivered on 23 June 2004 former Minister with responsibility for Education, Mr Barry Gardiner, claimed “80% of grammar schools have already sacrificed their proudly held ‘academic ethos’ by taking in children with Cs and Ds in the 11 plus.” The inference is that grammar schools are already de facto comprehensive schools. The evidence, however, shows that this is not the case. The figures for the period 1998–99—2004–05 indicate that over 90% of pupils who were accepted into grammar schools obtained a grade A or B in the 11 plus. This is not an all-ability intake. With respect to the small minority admitted 3249641005 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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with lower grades some pupils obtain places on the basis of upgrades by the schools on the basis of evidence from primary schools. The figures do not reveal, however, the number of pupils with lower grades admitted on decisions made by appeal tribunals, rather than by the schools themselves. In other words some of the pupils with low grades that grammar schools are being accused of taking to fill their places have been imposed on grammar schools by the decisions of Department of Education tribunals!
10. The Future Role of Grammar Schools 10.1 Several groups appearing before the Select Committee have sought to present our education system as ill-equipped for the challenges of the 21st century. We dispute this contention. As we have already indicated it outperforms other systems in Great Britain in terms of GCSE and Advanced Level results and in terms of the relative success of pupils from working class and disadvantaged backgrounds. We have also acknowledged that this is a tribute to all constituent parts of our education sector and would dispute any assertion of superior performance from any part. 10.2 It is noteworthy that two of the CCMS representatives who appeared before the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee were members of the Costello Committee and their presentation, and form of language used, mirrored closely the language of the Costello Report. There was, however, one significant diVerence: on both sides of the debate the assertion that grammar schools can remain as grammar schools in the new system has been abandoned. Since the Costello Proposals would require all schools to accept an all-ability intake to provide a mixed curriculum of vocational and academic subjects, all schools would be forced to become one-size-fits-all comprehensive schools. Only the Minister and Department of Education oYcials continue to present the people of Northern Ireland with the assertion that the implementation of the Costello Proposals would not create a comprehensive system. 10.3 Many grammar schools have been educating young people for a long time, in some cases, hundreds of years. They have adapted to changing circumstances and continue to enjoy the confidence of the people of Northern Ireland to educate the academically able to a high standard. Academic excellence and intellectual rigour will be as important in the 21st century as at any time in the past.
11. A Positive Vision 11.1 The skills fostered by academic specialism are not out of date: the analytical and leadership skills needed to solve novel and complex problems: the ability to evaluate material, construct logical arguments and to communicate ideas eVectively. 11.2 We have a positive alternative vision for the future education that would build on the strengths of our present system to accommodate better the needs, interest and abilities of all our young people. Our groups endorse “Our Vision for the future of Post Primary Education” issued by Concerned Parents for Education (with the proviso that the section on the Pupil Profile has been updated by the contribution of Dr Hugh Morrison entitled “A Positive Alternative to the Costello Profile.”)
12. Concluding Comments Since we gave our oral evidence to the Committee, the Minister has published proposals and draft legislation embodying them which take no account whatsoever of majority local opinion. The results of the most recent round of consultation are presented in such a way as to obscure the opposition of a majority to the total abandonment of academic criteria for selection. It strains all credibility that, in the Minister’s published statement, she purports to assure us that she is not abolishing grammar schools or introducing universal comprehensive secondary education. What schools are called is beside the point; indeed many of the schools of which we speak bear such titles as “Academy” or “College” or “Institution” rather than “Grammar School”. We seek to defend not what grammar schools are called but what they are—schools devoted to academic excellence and rigour. In the face of the criteria for selection still envisaged by the Minister, with the emphasis on geographical proximity or random selection in the choice of pupils by oversubscribed schools, the inevitable consequence would be the imposition of comprehensive education. William Young, Grammar Principals’ Group. Peter Cosgrove, Co-Chairperson, Concerned Parents for Education. Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Past Pupils’ Association. Finbarr McCallion, Governing Bodies’ Association. Dr Hugh Morrison, School of Education, Queen’s University Belfast 13 December 2005 3249641006 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence (dated 20 December 2005) from Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association
RESPONSE TO THE WRITTEN EVIDENCE FROM ANGELA SMITH MP, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION SUBMITTED TO THE NORTHERN IRELAND AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, WEDNESDAY 14 DECEMBER2005 We have ordered our response to Ms Smith’s submission according to the numbers used in that submission. As in our earlier submissions we do not argue for the status quo, nor do we argue that measures are not required to promote social inclusion and to address demographic change. As our earlier documents aYrmed we believe that change should build on our present system, be based on an honest appraisal of its strengths and weaknesses, be properly costed, and be in accordance with democratic principles. 1.1 Most pupils, parents and employers view A*-C grades as “passes” and there are very few employment opportunities where grades lower than a C are considered. The examination performance of pupils in Northern Ireland overtook that of their peers in England and Wales in the 1970s, following the introduction of comprehensive education in those areas, despite the fact that conflict, community division, and high levels of poverty would have been expected to produce a lower performance. 1.2 The figure for Advanced Level passes is misleading. We do not have access to the most recent figures but the statistics for 1999–2000 show that 37.7% of 18 year olds achieved two Advanced Level passes or equivalent, while the figure for England and Wales is only 30%. 2.1 We dispute the suggestion that “academic success masks deep-rooted problems.” All education systems face challenges and those facing us cannot be remedied by adopting approaches that have not been successful in other parts of these islands. Moreover, it is important to consider the social structure in which the education system operates. Recently a Swedish person, visiting relatives in Northern Ireland, wrote to the Belfast Telegraph to point out that it was this factor, and not the education system, that resulted in a relatively narrow gap between high and low achievers in Sweden. 2.2 We do not know exactly how the GCSE point score referred to in section 2, bullet point 1, is calculated. Since Northern Ireland’s pupils outperform, significantly, their peers in England and Wales, however, in terms of A grades at GCSE and achieving 5!A*-C grades at GCSE, the discrepancy must arise through the inclusion of D-G grades. A similar measure purporting to show that performance in England exceeded that in Northern Ireland was produced for the Costello Report. Under that measure a pupil obtaining 6 D grades and 1 E grade at GCSE would have obtained a higher score than a pupil with 5 C grades. In reality, pupils, parents, schools and employers would regard the former outcome as better than the latter. Indeed, the Minister herself accepts this point by referring to A*-C grades as “good GCSEs”. 2.3 Section 2, bullet point 2 confirms our evidence that while weaker pupils perform on a par with their peers in England our higher achieving pupils perform much better. The Minister has chosen to focus on those achieving fewer than 5 A*-G grades at GCSE to show that England outperforms Northern Ireland by 1%, but such a gap is not statistically significant. In any case the proportion leaving school with no GCSEs of any grade is actually lower in Northern Ireland: 4% as opposed to 5% for England. 2.4 We dispute the Minister’s use of the international comparisons in the PISA research quoted in Section 2, bullet point 3. As already indicated we have a number of reservations about the PISA research. Its critics included Professor Sig Prais of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research who at the time the results of the 2000 survey were released had been leading the Institute’s team which has been carrying out a detailed investigation of international comparisons of standards in mathematics for almost a decade National Institute of Economic and Social Research. One concern noted by Prof Pais about the English figures for 2000 was that more able pupils in better performing schools were much more likely to be included than pupils from schools with a poor performance. In contrast, a representative sample was used in 2000 and 2003 to produce Northern Ireland’s figures. We do not accept, therefore, the suggestion that the performance of English pupils was on a par with their peers in Northern Ireland in 2000. In respect of the PISA 2003 results the English sample was again unrepresentative, but showed a very substantial decline from 2000. On this occasion it was decided to disregard the English figures. Even if we set aside our concerns about the survey it cannot be argued that it portrays Northern Ireland’s education system in a negative light. A summary of the PISA report published by the OYce for National Statistics stated that “the proficiency in mathematical, reading and scientific literacy of 15 year olds in Northern Ireland compares well with that of young people of the same age in other countries.” Only two countries in the world performed at significantly better in either reading or scientific literacy, while only six countries performed significantly better in mathematical literacy. With respect to Ms Smith’s comments about the wide variation of scores in Northern Ireland it is apposite to consider the comments on mathematical literacy in the OYce for National statistics summary report: “A small proportion of 15 year olds was not able to demonstrate the lowest level of proficiency: in Northern Ireland, 5% of students were in this category, below the proportion in the OECD as a whole (8%) and the same as the proportion in the Republic of Ireland.” 3249641006 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Commenting on the “good news story” of Northern Ireland’s PISA 2003 results, Alan Lennon, Chairman of the Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Evaluation and Assessment stated: “What this means for educational policy makers in NI is that great care must be taken in considering and implementing changes to the current curriculum and examinations systems and the supporting school infrastructure. In the many changes currently under consideration, it is of vital importance to remember that the Province is starting from a position of relative strength, as confirmed by the PISA study.” He concluded by stating: “However, if NI society, as a whole, is not suYciently well informed to appreciate the context in which change is taking place, society may be eVectively handing over important decision making to a relatively small cadre of experts in CCEA [his own organisation] and beyond. That would not be good either for education or democracy.” 2.5 The arguments made in Section 2, bullet points 4 and 5, do not relate to the current performance of Northern Ireland’s education system. In any case the relatively small size of Northern Ireland means that many graduates move to seek employment opportunities elsewhere. Since it is often the best qualified who are most geographically mobile this would aVect the percentage of the working population without qualifications as would a number of other factors stretching back more than 50 years when our older workers were educated. 3.1 Ms Smith makes a number of claims in respect of research into the current transfer arrangements, while not revealing the source of this research. We do not seek to defend the current 11 plus examinations and have oVered an alternative that meets the objections to these tests. Nevertheless, we wish to counter the claims made. 3.2 We dispute the simplistic suggestion that the 11 plus divides people into successes and failures. It may be the case that some pupils who do not receive the grade required to obtain a place in a grammar school experience feelings of failure, but this is not universal. It should be remembered also that a significant proportion of children does not take the transfer test and therefore does not experience these emotions. Our alternative would be a reliable and valid pupil profile, built up over a period of years for all pupils, which would be diagnostic and support learning. It would remove any anxiety associated with the two-test 11! model. To suggest that pupils who do not achieve the 11 plus grade required for a place in a grammar school and who, therefore, are educated in a secondary school, have in some way “failed”, is to belittle the work of our secondary school colleagues. If feelings of failure associated with the 11 plus were strong we would expect that those respondents to the Household Survey who had pupils at secondary schools would have been opposed to academic selection: in fact a majority support its retention. Likewise the Omnibus Survey of a random sample of the population showed a majority of respondents who had attended secondary schools also support its retention. 3.3 While our proposals articulate the need for greater flexibility for transfer between post-primary schools to take account of the changing needs of pupils we do not agree that the existing system is limited to the extent suggested by Section 3, bullet point 2. Pupils who develop academic ability at a later stage often have the opportunity to take advantage of sixth form provision in some secondary schools, a grammar school place, or a place in a further education college. This degree of flexibility is illustrated by the larger percentages of young people in Northern Ireland remaining in education post 16 and post 18 than in Great Britain and the fact that we have a higher proportion of young people from working class and disadvantaged backgrounds progressing to higher education than anywhere else in these islands. 3.4 Dr Morrison’s paper, “The Case for an alternative to the Costello Pupil Profile” outlines how bullet points 3–8 in Section 3 could be addressed. In particular we would draw attention to Dr Morrison’s evidence that the type of testing we propose would serve to reduce the gap between the “haves” and the “have nots”. 4.1 We strongly refute the suggestion that academic selection perpetuates social disadvantage. 4.2 Ms Smith uses the relatively low percentage of pupils from socially disadvantaged backgrounds in grammar schools in Northern Ireland as evidence that the system perpetuates social disadvantage (Section 3, bullet point 1). She does not indicate, however, that this figure (7%) is more than twice as high as the average for the top 200 state schools in England. As Sir Peter Lampl, Chairman of the Sutton trust commented “The best comprehensives serve the relatively aZuent” and, in reference to England, “We have replaced an education system which selected on ability with one that is socially selective.” Ms Smith comments on the lack of pupils proceeding to grammar school from one small area (the Shankill Road) as evidence of a wider malaise. She may not be aware of the particular problems in that area that remain in the aftermath of the conflict here. She may also be unfamiliar with the fact, mentioned on a recent radio phone-in by a primary school principal in the area, that some pupils, who obtain a high grade in the transfer tests, prefer to go to the Girls’ or Boys’ Model Secondary schools, that provide excellent educational opportunities including a range of Advanced Level examinations. Moreover, one could refer to large areas in any city in Great Britain or the south of Ireland where educational outcomes are poor and where hardly any young person achieves a university place. During presentation of our oral evidence Mr Cosgrove made reference to the example of Nottingham. 3249641006 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Ms Smith fails to mention that we do not have the type of “selection by bank balance” that occurs in Great Britain and in the south of Ireland, with parents with the resources to do so, buying a place for their children in a private school, or moving to the catchment areas of the most prestigious comprehensive schools. While private education flourishes in Great Britain and the south of Ireland, particularly in urban areas (eg Edinburgh where 25% of pupils are privately educated) it is almost non-existent in Northern Ireland, where there is only one small private school. 4.3 In section 4, bullet point 3, Ms Smith comments on the poor performance in terms of 5 A*-C GCSE grades of the most disadvantaged pupils, without revealing that the performance of this group is much poorer in English schools. In England 26.1% of pupils in receipt of Free School Meals achieve this level. The most recent figures available for Northern Ireland are 31% for 1997. However, since the Minister’s memorandum suggests that “the most disadvantaged pupils are only around half as likely to achieve five good GCSEs (A-C) as the least disadvantaged” we can infer that the current performance is likely to be significantly higher than this figure. 4.4 With respect to course availability (section 4, bullet point 4) we accept that pupils should have access to a reasonable range of subjects but regard the proposed 24 at GCSE level and 27 post-GCSE as both unnecessary and impractical. We have yet to see any educational research to suggest that such a large range is necessary. The result would be a massive programme of school closures with many rural communities losing their local schools. The larger school size that would be a consequence of implementation of the Entitlement Framework, and would be necessary for a comprehensive intake, would be inconvenient for many and, and presents diYculties for discipline and pastoral care. One piece of evidence for this position was quoted in section 5.2.2 in our Submission to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee, further evidence is found in Malcolm Gladwell’s book, “The Tipping Point.” He discusses how “The figure of 150 seems to represent the maximum number of individuals with whom we can have a genuinely social relationship.” He points out that this number, or one close to it, crops up as the size of tribes in diVerent parts of the world, Hutterite communities, successful businesses and military units. He then goes on to suggest that, “If we want to develop schools in disadvantaged communities that can successfully counteract the poisonous atmosphere of their surrounding neighbourhoods, this tells us that we’re better oV building lots of little schools than one or two big ones.” We believe there is a role for a variety of school sizes to serve the diVering needs of the population. Just as practical diYculties with the move to comprehensive education on split site campuses in England in the 1970s led to rationalisation on a single campus, the imposition of an all-ability intake and the Entitlement Framework would lead to the closure or amalgamation of small to medium sized schools here. The negative impact of such changes would be most keenly felt by children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. 5.1 Ms Smith’s comments on the relationship between education and the economy suggest an incomplete understanding of prevailing economic conditions in Northern Ireland. During the long period of conflict, successive governments pumped money into the public sector to counteract the understandable weakness of the private sector. This experience of dependence on the public sector is a major reason for there being a lower level of entrepreneurial activity in Northern Ireland than in some areas of Great Britain. There is no evidence to suggest that replacing Northern Ireland’s education system with an all-ability system would lead to an improvement here when it has been less successful than our current system in more fortuitous circumstances. Some of Northern Ireland’s schools have existed for several hundred years. They have succeeded in making evolutionary changes to adapt to changing needs and they are entirely capable of meeting the challenges of the 21st century through evolution of our current system rather than its destruction. 6/7 We have answered these points in Section 7 of our Follow-up Submission. We accept that there has been a decline in pupil numbers and that although it has slowed considerably, this decline will continue for several more years. We have oVered evidence to dispute the scale of the decline and the notion that it will continue indefinitely. 8.1 We welcome Ms Smith’s acknowledgement that “grammar schools are currently seen as the preferred choice of many”. This assertion supports our view that removing any academic barrier to access will result in massive oversubscription of these schools so that selection by postcode or lottery will become widespread. As we have already shown in Section 5 of our original submission this would have negative consequences for education, particularly the education of children from working class or disadvantaged backgrounds. 8.2 Ms Smith makes a number of points regarding the impact of open enrolment on secondary schools in a situation of demographic decline. We accept that the demographic downturn has had a disproportionate eVect on secondary school numbers. Mr McCallion indicated in his oral evidence to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee that grammar schools have also suVered because of population decline, and the creation of a significant number of new integrated schools has compounded the problem of falling rolls at existing schools. Section 7.2 of our Follow-up Submission records the willingness of the grammar sector to shoulder its share of the burden of demographic decline, although this must be based on a realistic appraisal of the scale of that decline. 8.3 We note Ms Smith’s assertion in Section 8, bullet point 2 that, under current arrangements, falling numbers is having the eVect of further widening the ability profile of grammar schools, requiring these schools to adjust their teaching and learning to make appropriate provision for pupils admitted. While we 3249641006 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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have already shown in Section 9 of our Follow-up Submission that claims of significant widening of the ability base of grammar school entrants are false, we agree that widening the ability range would require a very diVerent teaching and learning style. Clearly the move to a system in which all schools must accommodate children of all abilities would require radical change. This view, however, contradicts earlier statements by oYcials in Ms Smith’s Department. In the first few months of 2005 Department oYcials responded to queries from the public with a standard letter that stated “Grammar schools can maintain their academic ethos through the curriculum they oVer, the style of teaching and the pace and depth of learning.” Ms Smith has conceded that this would not be the case. 9. We are not entirely clear what point the Minister is making in this section. It is possible for grammar schools to arrange to decrease their intake numbers. Having done this, however, they are not permitted to increase them again in subsequent years if suitably qualified pupils apply. Reluctance of schools to agree long term reductions in their numbers, if they have a chance of more pupils applying in future years causes variation in the grades required by diVerent schools. 10. In Section 2.2 of our Follow-up Submission we outline the unrepresentative nature of Costello Committee and how it was used to subvert the public will. 11. Our previous submissions to the Department, and our oral evidence, explain why the recommendations of the Costello Committee are not, as claimed by the Minister, “a sound basis on which to develop new arrangements for post-primary education.” 12.1 We have already articulated a positive alternative vision to the Costello proposals that would build on the strengths of our existing secondary and grammar schools and recognise the individual needs, abilities and interests of each child. While the Costello proposals purport to be child-focused we have shown that, if implemented, they would damage the interests of children, especially those from working class or disadvantaged backgrounds. 12.2 In addition to our concerns about the imposition of proposals that will lead to the creation of one- size-fits-all comprehensive schools, we also believe that the direction of curricular reform and reform of the administration of schools is unwise. Moreover, at a time when some schools in England and Wales have been given greater independence, and the government intends that this be extended, it is proposed to curtail severely the independence of voluntary grammar schools, which enjoy an excellent reputation and are financially well managed. 14. InsuYcient attention has been given to the value of traditional academic subjects in developing such skills as analysis, evaluation and written communication. 15–21 We have already indicated that we do not object to voluntary co-operation between schools where this is practical. The proposed Entitlement Framework, however, is ill-conceived and will not operate in practice for the reasons outlined in Sections 5.2.2 and 5.5 of our Submission, Section 3 of our Follow-up Submission, and Section 4.4 above. We note that Ms Smith’s paper does not even address such basic practical issues as transport costs, responsibility for the care of pupils in transit, pastoral care and discipline issues when a pupil is oV-site, and the technicalities of faith schools and non-denominational schools co- operating. 23–29 We regard as entirely illogical, the proposal to permit specialisms in such areas as sport or music but not to allow schools to be academic specialists. 30–37 Our objections to the proposed new admissions arrangements, and to the proposed Pupil Profile, are outlined in Dr Morrison’s paper, “The Case for an alternative to the Costello Pupil Profile”, and in Section 5.1 of our Submission and Section 4 of our Follow-up Submission. It remains our view that a profile should be developed in keeping with Dr Morrison’s recommendations and that this should be used in cases of oversubscription to ensure that school places be allocated to the pupils most likely to benefit from them. Regardless of the use to which the profile is put, we believe also that parents have the right to a profile that meets international standards of reliability and validity. While Ms Smith records the fact that over 14,000 responses were received to the consultation on admissions, which ended in June, the report on the consultation, released on the same date as the Draft Order in Council, did not reveal the fact that over 90% of respondents disagreed with the Minister’s proposals. Furthermore, it is clear that while the Minister is aware of the strength of opposition to the current proposals she has chosen to ignore it. 39–40 If the figure of 47,000 surplus school places is correct, this is a major problem that should have been addressed some time ago. It may be the case, however, that so-called surplus places could be used to tackle underachievement in some cases by reducing class sizes in schools where performance of pupils is weak. We would have reservations about projections for any future surplus given the inaccuracies in the population statistics published in the Costello Report. 41. If the progress towards implementation referred to in Section 41 means an increase in expenditure on educational bureaucracy then progress has been made. There is no evidence that planning for school closures, redundancies, retraining of teachers for an all-ability intake, or for transport requirements, etc has taken place. There appears to be undue haste to pass the changes into legislation without any idea of costs. 3249641006 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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42. Section 42 refers to a period of consultation on the draft legislation. Since every test of public opinion to date, and the opposition of a majority of our locally elected politicians, has been ignored, we have no confidence that the Minister will treat responses to the current consultation seriously.
Mr William Young, Grammar Principals’ Group. Mr Peter Cosgrove, Co-Chairperson, Concerned Parents for Education. Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Past Pupils’ Association. Mr Finbarr McCallion, Governing Bodies’ Association. Dr Hugh Morrison, School of Education, Queen’s University Belfast 20 December 2005
Written evidence (dated 10 January 2006) from Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association
RESPONSE TO ORAL EVIDENCE OF MS ANGELA SMITH MP, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION TAKEN BEFORE THE NORTHERN IRELAND AFFAIRS COMMITTEE ON WEDNESDAY 14 DECEMBER2005
Post–Primary Education in Northern Ireland In commenting on the transcript we recognise that it is not yet an approved formal record of proceedings as neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. Our comments are ordered in accordance with a number of key themes that arose during the session.
1. Democracy 1.1 We dispute the suggestion that the response rate to the Household Survey was low (Q177). We are not aware of any consultation in any part of these islands that has awakened such public interest. The Minister at the time of the consultation, Mr McGuinness, stated: “I want to give the people who really count, the people out there in the street, the opportunity to have their say on an issue which has been a burning issue for our society for many decades”. In the same interview, at a time when less than 50% of the total responses had been returned he described the response rate as “incredible” and promised: “I have 100,000 responses in my Department and those are the people that count.”1 There has been a number of other surveys on education, all of which confirm the findings of the Household Survey.2 1.2 Ms Smith asserted that the Costello Committee took all views into account yet we have shown in Section 2.2 of our Follow-up Submission that the composition of the Committee was heavily weighted in favour of those who oppose academic selection. 1.3 We know of no survey in which the level of support for academic selection fell to a figure as low as 50% or of any which indicated majority support for sending all pupils to their local school (Q182). We do know that over 90% of respondents to the government’s consultation on admissions arrangements oppose the current plans.3 1.4 We are surprised at Ms Smith’s suggestion (Q184) that she does not know how a local Assembly would approach this issue. Given that the two largest Unionist parties have made manifesto commitments on this issue, and spokespersons for a majority of the elected representatives have made their opposition to the Costello proposals clear to her, we find this statement diYcult to comprehend. It is important to record that once enacted, the make-up of the Assembly, and the type of weighted majority voting system involved, would make it almost impossible to repeal the legislation. 1.5 Ms Smith stated that she has had a large number of meetings with the GBA (Q185). Even if we leave aside the fact that the GBA does not represent all Northern Ireland’s grammar schools, it is clear that, while Ms Smith may have listened to the concerns of representatives of grammar schools, there is no evidence that she has taken heed of those concerns or responded to the arguments put to her.
2. The Curriculum 2.1 It is true that a common curriculum was implemented in Northern Ireland as in Great Britain but this does not mean, as Ms Smith suggested, repeatedly (Q181 Q210 and Q201), that all pupils are “taught in the same way, at the same level”. This statement indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Northern Ireland education system works. Academically weaker pupils are entered for lower level papers at GCSE than academically stronger pupils and teaching styles vary enormously. Indeed one of the strengths of Northern Ireland’s current system is the development of expertise in appropriate teaching styles in diVerent types of schools, something that is more diYcult in the all-ability comprehensive. 3249641007 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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We have set out a vision of how our current system might evolve to better meet the needs of all our young people. We agree that schools should be freed from the constraints of a large common curriculum. This can best be achieved by allowing schools to evolve on the basis of their current strengths. We cannot see how the introduction of a non-academically selective education system, which has delivered much lower average GCSE results for young people, particularly for those from disadvantaged backgrounds, in Great Britain, could improve performance in Northern Ireland (Q179).
3. The Future of Grammar Schools 3.1 Ms Smith made the claim that the Government’s views have been misrepresented (Q180). If, as is the case later in her oral evidence, this is a reference to the issue of grammar schools remaining (Q181, 200–202, 209–210), it is clear that she is very much in the minority in this assertion. A casual glance at the letters pages of the Belfast Telegraph will illustrate that although there are very few proponents of the Costello proposals in comparison to its opponents, all but the Minister and her oYcials accept that Costello will result in the creation of all-ability or one-size-fits-all comprehensive schools. It cannot be otherwise if every school must oVer a mix of vocational and academic subjects and accept pupils irrespective of ability. 3.2 In response to Q200 Ms Smith stated: “I am not sure all schools will be all-ability schools.” She is therefore accepting that it is possible that all schools will be all-ability schools. 55% of pupils receive a grade D in the 11! examination and 10% receive a grade C, giving a total for these grades of 65%. We reject the Minister’s suggestion that grammar schools have already moved significantly in this direction since over 90% of grammar school entrants have an A or B grade in the 11 plus examination and less than 10% have grades C and D, many of who are special cases.4 3.3 We welcome the acceptance of the Minister (Q209) that the very modest widening of the grammar school intake that has taken place is not something that grammar schools have been deliberately pursuing. 3.4 Ms Smith failed to address the point that, given their popularity and the lack of any barrier to application based on the suitability of a child to an academic education, grammar schools would be transformed into one-size-fits-all comprehensives if the Costello proposals are implemented (Q202 and Q210).
4. Academic Selection and Social Mobility 4.1 Having provided a substantial amount of evidence to indicate how our education system outperforms others in these islands (see our earlier submissions) for young people from working class and socially disadvantaged backgrounds, we are disappointed by Ms Smith’s claim that academic selection does not increase social mobility. We are willing to provide further evidence from leading academics to show that this is incorrect. In particular, highly regarded research by Richard Breen of the University of Oxford (see, for example, his chapter in the recently published Understanding Social Change) demonstrates conclusively that comprehensive education has been powerless to enhance social mobility.5 When the progressivist nature of the new curricular arrangements is added to a Comprehensive model of schooling, the clear message of the international literature is that social disadvantage will worsen under the Costello proposals. 4.2 The problem of selection by postcode in comprehensive systems is explicitly admitted in the Burns Report: “For example, when geography is used as the final criterion for admission purposes, comprehensive school systems can display a relatively high level of social diVerentiation, particularly in cities. In practice this can mean that socially advantaged parents are likely to live in areas served by the highest status schools and are better placed to take advantage of any flexibility in their admissions arrangements. Alongside this there is then the prospect that cities are likely to contain suYcient demand for private schools in circumstances where parents are dissatisfied with the admissions arrangements or other aspects of local schools”.6 The Minister may claim that she is not imposing a comprehensive system but there is no mechanism in the Costello proposals to prevent the social diVerentiation described in the Burns Report. 4.3 Ms Smith stated a particular concern for the children of the Shankill Road (Q203) although further questioning revealed that this had not, as yet, translated itself into significant additional resources for the area. We have commented on the particular circumstances of the Shankill area in our response to Ms Smith’s written evidence (4.2) and reiterate the point that pockets of educational under-achievement are found in all countries. In a recent report The UK Higher Education Funding Council found that “Many cities and towns are educationally divided, containing neighbourhoods where almost no one goes to university and neighbourhoods where two out of three or more will enter higher education.” The Council report noted that young people living in the parliamentary constituency of Kensington and Chelsea were ten times more likely to go to university than those living in SheYeld, Brightside, who were eight times less likely to go than those living in SheYeld, Hallam. Those living in Bristol West were five times more likely to go to university than those living in Bristol South.7 If moving to a non-selective system would address the problems of the Shankill Road why has this approach not succeeded anywhere else on these islands? 3249641007 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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5. The Pupil Profile 5.1 In the Department of Education’s press release of 23 June 2004, the then Education Minister (Mr Barry Gardner) states, in respect of assessment: “It should be an assessment for learning.” CCEA’s documentation to schools makes clear that assessment of learning is to be replaced by assessment for learning.8 A central plank of assessment for learning is that children take responsibility for assessing their own work and that of their peers. It is important to point out that CCEA have very little (if any) room for manoeuvre here because the robustness of the Costello Profile is predicated on the reliability and validity of teacher assessment. Under assessment for learning, if pupils were denied a role in the assessment of their own work, the Profile’s consequential validity would be undermined. In short, reliable and valid assessment cannot be disentangled from curriculum design—teachers couldn’t be free to assess in the traditional way. There is no suggestion that pupils would complete their own profile, only that, under the Costello arrangements, they must play a pivotal part in the assessments upon which the Profile is based. 5.2 In her response to Q200 Ms Smith indicated that proposed future arrangements would involve parents choosing between diVerent types of schools using the information in the pupil profile. We do not share this belief for reasons already outlined. If we accept the minister’s vision, however, the pupil profile becomes a critical document in helping parents decide between diVerent types of school. If information in the profile does not meet international standards of reliability and validity then parents may choose an inappropriate school for their children. 5.3 The Minister may not be aware of the international standards which are used by most developed countries to ensure that assessment instruments are both reliable and valid but CCEA (Council for the Curriculum Examinations and Assessment) are very familiar with them since they were cited in the Gardner and Cowan study that attacked CCEA’s current 11 plus tests.9 Even if parents have the right to disregard the profile, as the Minister proposes, is it not a reasonable request that they should have access to information that meets international standards of validity and reliability, especially in the light of her acceptance of the need for reliability and validity in her answer to Q204? 5.4 In response to Q204 we can confirm that Dr Morrison approached CCEA with his concerns about the “scientific rationale” (brain-based learning) of the curriculum, and the link between a robust Profile and a curriculum which passed responsibility for assessment to the pupil. The approach was made to Mr Alistair Walker and Mr Martin Montgomery when they visited the University as part of their consultation process. Dr Morrison asked that CCEA reply to him in detail on the issue of the “Mereological fallacy” which undermines the entire Costello framework. He also asked that CCEA include a reference on their website to Diane Ravitch’s famous text Left Back cataloguing the negative impact of innovative curricula on the poor. Neither detailed reply nor website link happened. Dr Morrison is happy to accept an invitation from the Minister to discuss his concerns and has written to her to that eVect.
6. Cost We note that the answers of the Minister when questioned by Committee members support our contention that the Costello proposals have not been adequately costed.
7. The School Population There was a lack of clarity in the Minister’s evidence with respect to the role of demographic change as a driver of reform. Since the government has accepted that one of the published population statistics in the Costello Report is incorrect by a wide margin, we do not have confidence in any of the other figures.10 We are also concerned that the closure of small schools that would be a consequence of imposing the excessively large Proposed Entitlement Framework would not only damage local communities but also have a negative eVect on social justice 10 January 2006
References 1. Daily Mirror, 14 June 2002. 2. See 2.1 of our Follow Up Submission. 3. Belfast Telegraph 7 December 2005. 4. Freedom of Information request to the Department of Education October 2005. 5. Breen R(2005), Why did class inequalities in educational attainment remain unchanged over much of the twentieth century?, In A F Heath, J Ermisch, & Gallie, D (Eds), Understanding Social Change (pp 55–72). Oxford: Oxford University Press. 6. Department of Education (2001) Education for the 21st Century: Report by the Post-Primary Review Body (The Burns Report), Bangor: Department of Education, p101. 7. Daily Telegraph, 20 January 2005. 3249641007 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
Ev 68 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
8. Council For the Curriculum Examinations and Assessment (2003a), Proposals for Curriculum and Assessment at Key stage 3, Part 1, Discussion Papers and Case Studies, Belfast, CCEA. Council For the Curriculum Examinations and Assessment (2003b), Proposals for Curriculum and Assessment at Key stage 3, Part 2, Discussion Papers and Case Studies, Belfast, CCEA. 9. Gardner J and Cowan P, A Study of the Reliability and Validity of the Northern Ireland Transfer Procedure Test, Queen’s University Belfast Graduate School of Education. 10. See 7.1 of our Follow Up Submission.
Written evidence (dated 18 January 2006) from Grammar Principals’ Group, Concerned Parents for Education, Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations and Governing Bodies’ Association I have three final, but, I believe, important points which I should like you to draw to the attention of your Committee. 1. Mr Blair and Mr Ahern are scheduled to come to Belfast early next month in a bid to kick-start a new round of talks to restore devolution. To proceed quickly with legislation after the period of consultation on the education draft Order in Council ends on 7 March would be seen in Northern Ireland as a signal that Government itself held little hope that talks would succeed—even though it is widely anticipated that an early report from the Independent Monitoring Commission will boost the talks process by confirming a continuing diminution in paramilitary activities. As all parties agree that, desirably, decisions on education should be taken by locally accountable politicians, surely it is reasonable, without under-estimating the diYculties to be overcome before an Assembly at Stormont is restored, that legislation should be placed on hold for a period. This would also provide additional time to facilitate a considered and acceptable resolution of the diYculties which it is widely known are being encountered by CCEA in drawing up a pupil profile that would meet internationally accepted standards of validity and reliability. 2. Secretary of State Peter Hain, in withdrawing the “On The Runs” legislation, cited a newspaper opinion poll in support of such action by the Government as “indicative of the minds of the people of Northern Ireland.” As the people of Northern Ireland have expressed their minds on the key elements of the Government’s proposals on education not only in several opinion polls commissioned by the media but in two formal processes of consultation set in train by Government itself, surely it is reasonable, even on grounds of consistency, that the same principle should be applied to education. 3. An example of attempts by the Department of Education to dilute a response of the will of the people may be seen in the latest “consultation” on the Order in Council where a limited number of Response Booklets has been sent out to schools: our school received 27 packs and just one Response Booklet. This has happened elsewhere. So much for consultation, accountability and democracy. I feel very strongly that, irrespective of any educational arguments, we in Northern Ireland are being denied our basic human and democratic rights and I appeal to you to take these points into consideration in making your judgement. W S F Young Headmaster 18 January 2005
Written evidence from the Council of Catholic Maintained Schools
1. Introduction 1.1 This introduction and its appendices are intended to provide the Committee with a brief background to the establishment of CCMS, an outline of its key roles and responsibilities, a focus on its principal activities in Raising Standards and outline of its approach to Education for the 21st Century primarily through an emphasis on New Arrangements for Post-Primary Education. 1.2 CCMS was formed under the 1989 Education Order in response to a concerns regarding the standards achieved by pupils in Catholic Maintained schools, the management of such schools, particularly with respect to appointments, and the quality of the buildings. 1.3 The Council has responsibilities for the eVective management and control of Catholic Maintained schools through the Boards of Governors. It is the employer of teachers but devolves the appointment of non-prescribed post-holders to Boards of Governors. It acts on behalf of Trustees in respect of the planning and procurement of buildings. The Council also acts as an advocate for the Catholic Maintained sector as well as developing policy and influencing the Department of Education and other education partners in the development of policies. CCMS is primarily a strategic body which employs “light touch” approaches in its management through influence. 3249641008 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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2. Raising Standards
2.1 The Council has deemed the raising of educational and related standards as its primary function. In 1993, CCMS, through the establishment of a working party which took evidence from leading education, industry, business, academic and social interests, developed a strategic framework to raise standards in Catholic Maintained Schools (Appendix 1 not printed). The key dimensions of that strategy were as follows: (a) To address weak management through processes which, on occasion, go beyond support to challenge and intervention. (b) To encourage schools to analyse underperformance in pastoral as well as academic domains, and implement strategies for improvement. (c) To appoint high quality leaders to principal, vice principal and SMT posts. (d) To secure a “fit for purpose” school stock which enhances learning experiences and promotes respect. (e) To influence education policies including those impacting on funding and social deprivation. (f) To influence and initiate programmes of support for schools encountering challenging circumstances.
2.2 Department statistics and independent research have shown, over the last 12 years, that the Council’s strategy and influence has raised the levels of performance in Catholic schools to exceed comparable sectors despite a ten to twelve percent higher level of social deprivation. Department analysis of the School Support Programme has shown that Catholic Maintained schools have generally achieved greater levels of improvement and have maintained these. CCMS does not have responsibilities for the Catholic Voluntary sector but it is evident that the influence of enhanced standards in primary education has assisted improved performance in Catholic Voluntary schools.
2.3 It is mainly the leadership and management of individual schools which deliver improved standards. CCMS through its core responsibilities has facilitated and influenced this process.
2.4 The Council believes that the aforementioned strategies and the influence of the ethos of Catholic education have combined to raise standards in Catholic Maintained schools and promote a greater openness to embracing and managing change.
3. Post-Primary Arrangements
3.1 The Council is committed to the proposed changes in the curriculum, the revised arrangement for post-primary education, the review of the 14–19 phase of education, the development of E-Learning, the review of Teacher Education and the aspirations of “A Shared Future”. It has concerns, however, that there is neither a connectivity between education and Northern Ireland economic policies nor a coherent implementation strategy to manage all of these proposed developments.
3.2 The Council has contributed significantly to the development of thinking and practice in relation to new non-selective post-primary arrangements (see appendices 2 and 5 (not printed)). It does so, not from any ideological perspective but from the pragmatic position that all children will benefit from motivating learning experiences which are responsive to their learning style and pace and which encourage success. Equality of access to curriculum choice will lead to higher achievements, a more positive attitude to learning and ultimately to a more prosperous economy and a better social environment. Its policy is to promote local solutions generated through an informed consultative process based on the PRINCE II methodologies. The Council has developed a range of possible outcomes which are available to inform the process. Issues such as diVerentiation, class organisation and course choice are matters for the schools. It fully acknowledges that viable curricular choice cannot be provided economically without co-operation and collaboration by all providers and that with a continuing demographic decline this will become more obvious over time.
3.3 It is important to engage all those with an interest in future post-primary arrangements in constructive discussions which will lead to a range of fit for purpose local arrangements. Demographic decline and the building of a shared future will inevitably lead to greater levels of co-operation and collaboration over time. It is important that this process is developed by responding to practical need rather than philosophical aspirations. Appendix 6 (not printed) addresses some of the practical realities and profiles some possible structural models for future provision. The positive engagement of all interested parties will unearth many more. 3249641008 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
Ev 70 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
4. General Issues 4.1 The Council would have a concern that its resources are insuYcient to keep pace with developments in other sectors and that, despite the extent of surplus places the Department has not initiated an “invest to save” strategy. 4.2 CCMS is committed to contributing to the Common Good through its willingness to embrace the principles of “Building Peace Shaping the Future” and “A Shared Future” (Appendix 7 (not printed)). It recognises that in the existing demographic context greater co-operation based on a recognition and embracing of diversity is essential. Mr D J Flanagan 17 November 2005
Written evidence (dated 12 December 2005) from Saint Catherine’s College, Armagh
With Reference to Q49 and Q50 I, Margaret Martin, agreed with Sir Patrick that it was possible that as many as 10% of our intake were “Protestant or other”. I have now checked the veracity of this assertion against the statistical information we hold and can now confirm that it is indeed accurate. I have expressed this information in tabulated form below. St2005-12-19 Total Pupil Intake: 1,028 ! 7 Statemented Pupils
School No of Pupils Total Percentage IRISH MEDIUM Bunscoil an Iuir 6 PRIMARY Bunscoil Ard Mhacha 37 SCHOOLS Bunscoil Eoin Ba´iste 5 Gaelscoil Uı´ Neill 18 66 6.39% Balloran Primary School 18 (Controlled State/non denominational) OTHERSaints and Scholars 13 Primary School (Integrated) Portadown Integrated 1 32 3.10% Primary School Muslim 3 Other (not specified) 2 5 0.48% GRAND TOTALS 103 10.0%
Written evidence (dated 23January 2006) from Saint Catherine’s College, Armagh I write with reference to communication I have received which indicates that some members of the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee may be confused by the explanatory memorandum I sent to the Committee on 12 December. I gave the explanatory memorandum because I was concerned that my answer to your question No 49 was misinterpreted.
Q49. In terms of percentages. Mr Young said that although his was anon-demoninational school there were 400 Catholics there. Yours is a Catholic School and we accept that but how many Protestants and others are there? You, in earlier questions (Q47 and Q48) raised the issue of the “mix” within Saint Catherine’s College. I sought clarification of what the Chairman meant by “mix” and as is obvious from the transcript I was hesitant in responding until I was clear that I understood the question. It was in response to your explanation of mix as “Protestant and others” that I first talked about Protestant and others as being, in percentage terms, “a significant minority”. When prompted further by your suggestion of 10% I agreed that 10% was a possible figure. My explanatory memorandum (Appendix A) confirms the accuracy of that 10%. Had I been asked specifically how many Protestants there were in the school I would have given a diVerent answer. 3249641009 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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In your letter of 7 December you specifically asked if I could “confirm in writing the proportion of students at the College who are from a Protestant background” (For letter, see Evidence page 114). Based on statistical information held by the Department of Education, 0.05% of the school population declare themselves Protestant. I further wish to state for the record that 90% of the intake of Saint Catherine’s College comes from the Catholic Maintained Primary School Sector. The other 10% from: 1. The Integrated Sector. 2. The Irish Medium Sector. 3. The Controlled Sector. (See Annex A.) Saint Catherine’s College is a school in the Catholic tradition but it is not just a school for Catholics. It does not make membership of the Catholic faith a requirement. I hope that this additional clarification finally dispels any remaining confusion. It is regrettable that this misinterpretation has arisen. I attended the meeting of the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee in order to help focus the current debate. I answered the questions posed as I understood them. I am grateful to you for your forbearance and for the time you have given to this matter. It was never my intention to mislead. I sincerely regret the misunderstanding and I hope the additional information I have provided gives the clarification on the point of detail that you require. I wish you every success with your evidence gathering and look forward to the best possible educational provision for all the children of Northern Ireland. I look forward to reading your report. Margaret A Martin Principal 23 January 2005
Annex A
Saint Catherine’s College, Armagh 2005 Total Pupil Intake: 1028 ! 7 Statemented Pupils
School No of Pupils Total Percentage
1. Integrated Sector Saints and Scholars, Armagh 16 Portadown Integrated 1 17 1.64 2. Irish Medium Sector Bunscoil an Iuir 6 Bunscoil Ard Mhacha 37 Bunscoil Eoin Ba´iste 5 Gaelscoil Uı´ Neill 18 66 6.39 3. Controlled Section Ballyoran Primary School 20 20 1.93 TOTALS 103 10%
Written evidence from the East Belfast Partnership and Greater Shankill Partnership
1. Context It has been known for a long time that there is a link between social background and educational performance and there is evidence to suggest that the lower the level of social cohesion in an area, either through family or community life, the more likely that this will act as a constraint on educational performance. It is also understood that interventions are more likely to be successful in communities where the levels of community participation and involvement are highest. Problems in disadvantaged protestant neighbourhoods that are characterised by an interlocking mix of environmental, social and economic circumstances, have been exacerbated since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement by government policies which for many have encouraged alienation and feelings of exclusion. This situation is set against changing traditional employment patterns and the requirement for developing a new range of skills among young people, yet the evidence suggests protestant young people are continuing to under perform. 3249641010 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
Ev 72 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
1.1 Evidence Recent data showing the qualifications of school leavers has become available which illustrates some of the key issues. Table 1 provides data for the highest qualifications of school leavers and demonstrates that leavers from maintained secondary schools show a much higher profile of leavers with A levels than those from controlled (Protestant) schools.
Table 1 QUALIFICATIONS OF LEAVERS 2003–04
Cath Other Catholic Other Integrated All Pupils Grammar Grammar Secondary Secondary Schools A Levels 83.6 81.5 23.8 13.5 28.2 5! GCSEs A*–C 12.5 14.1 15.8 21.3 20.4 No GCSEs 0.6 0.6 10.1 8.2 4.7
Professor Bob Osborne from the University of Ulster in a recent article notes that “both the Catholic grammar and secondary schools do much better for those pupils entitled to free school meals (the accepted indicator for measuring economic deprivation) especially in terms of ‘A’ levels which, of course, can secure entry to higher education, Table 2. These data not only confirm previous evidence that Catholic primary schools provide better educational outcomes for pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds in the transfer test, but it also fits with the international evidence that Catholic schools in general do somewhat better for disadvantaged pupils.”
Table 2 QUALIFICATIONS OF LEAVERS ENTITLED TO FSM, 2003–04
Cath Other Catholic Other Integrated All Pupils Grammar Grammar Secondary Secondary Schools A Levels 72.9 60.7 14.8 5.1 13.4 5! GCSEs A*–C 17.7 26.6 11.8 12.1 13.1 No GCSEs 1.5 0.0 16.3 16.4 10.7
The following two graphs further illustrate these diVerences:
Secondary: 2+ A Levels
24.0
20.0
16.0
12.0
8.0
4.0
0.0 1987/88 1990/91 1992/93 1993/94 1995/96 1997/98 1998/99 2000/01 2002/03 2003/04 1986/87 1989/90 1991/92 1994/95 1996/97 1999/00 2001/02 Catholic Other All
% of secondary school leavers with 2 or more A Levels, DE school leavers survey 3249641010 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Secondary: 5+ GCSEs A*-C
40
30
20
10 1986/87 1989/90 1992/93 1994/95 1996/97 1998/99 2000/01 2002/03 2003/04 1987/88 1990/91 1991/92 1993/94 1995/96 1997/98 1999/00 2001/02 Catholic Other All
% of secondary school leavers with 2 or more A Levels, DE school leavers survey Exactly why this situation occurs is not clear although those experienced in working in disadvantaged communities would attest to diVerent attitudes to education between Protestant and Catholic working class communities. Education in protestant communities is less valued, due in some part to historic circumstances around access to employment.
1.2 The East Belfast/Shankill experience We have selected eight wards; four in east Belfast and four on the Shankill to provide a detailed analysis of the picture in the communities with which we are most familiar. Figures for key deprivation measures are set out in Table 3 below. All the wards are within the top 10% of most disadvantaged in Northern Ireland.
Table 3
WARD RANKINGS FOR THE MULTIPLE DEPRIVATION MEASURE AND INCOME, EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION DOMAINS
Rank of Rank of Income Rank of Employment Rank of Education Ward Name MDM Score Domain Score Domain Score Domain Score Shankill 1 5 3 1 Crumlin 4 15 2 2 Ballymacarrett 9 17 14 14 Woodvale 13 37 23 3 The Mount 14 34 28 8 Glencairn 24 48 30 13 Island 34 70 67 37 Woodstock 44 64 93 31 Source: Northern Ireland Multiple Deprivation Measure (May 2005). Ranks shown relate to all 582 wards in Northern Ireland.
Other key statistics for this Study Area relate to; free school meal entitlement, % of school leavers with five or more GCSE passes at grade “C” or over, % of school leavers going on to Further or Higher Education. 3249641010 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
Ev 74 Northern Ireland Affairs Committee: Evidence
% entitled to Free % leaving with 5 or Ward School Meals more GSCE passes % to FE/HE Woodstock 49.7 23.7 23.7 Woodvale 51.9 24.6 24.6 Shankill 63.5 26.1 19.6 The Mount 47.1 16.1 19.4 Glencairn 42.7 29.3 34.5 Island 45.9 39.6 34 Crumlin 59.8 31.3 28.8 Ballymacarrett 62.5 33.8 31.3 Average for study area 52.9 28.1 27.0 Source: School Leavers Survey & School Census data (2002)
SUMMARY STATISTICS—STUDY AREA, BELFAST AND NORTHERN IRELAND
% entitled to free % leaving with 5! school meals GCSES % to FE/HE Average for study area 52.9 28.1 27 Belfast 32.6 50.1 47.5 NI 21.3 58.6 61.7 Source: School Leavers Survey & School Census data (2002)
70
60
50
40 Average for study area Belfast 30 NI
20
10
0 % entitled to Free % leaving with 5+ % to FE/HE School Meals GCSEs
Source: School Leavers Survey & School Census data (2002)
Clearly these areas demonstrate unacceptable levels of social and educational disadvantage.
An additional and significant challenge exists throughout Belfast is to address the potential impact of falling enrolment. At a time when protestant communities are expressing feelings of alienation and discontent this will require sensitive responses. Figures outlined below highlight the challenges across the city and underline the very significant problem in East Belfast where 85% of the population are from the protestant community. 3249641010 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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BELFAST PRIMARY SCHOOLS LAST SEVEN YEARS
Constituency FSME Enrolment East Belfast 28% "26% North Belfast 42% "12% South Belfast 25% "2% West Belfast 48% "6%
BELFAST POST PRIMARY LAST FIVE YEARS
Constituency FSME Enrolment Cath Grammar 12% !1% Oth Grammar 3% "1% Cath Secondary 48% "10% Oth Secondary 42% "16% Disadvantaged 58% "31%
1.3 Proposing Solutions Much is made of Northern Ireland’s academic success record, which sees around 45% of school leavers go on to university against 32% in the UK as a whole. The downside of this success story is that a much higher proportion of children leave school at age 16 without any qualifications (Leonard & Davey, 2001). If this is true in general, then the above statistics and analysis show that it is particularly true of the Protestant working class areas of Belfast, which suVer distinct levels of educational underachievement, even when compared to similar Catholic areas. This paper argues that distinct problems require distinct solutions. The planned reorganisation of education in N Ireland and simply abolishing the selection procedure, will not answer problems in areas such as the Shankill and Inner East Belfast. Nor indeed will school based solutions work on their own. While it is absolutely critical to recognise schools at the heart of education and to develop school based programmes and adequate resources to address educational under-achievement, the research evidence shows that “it is not realistic to rely on the School Sector or education institutions alone to drive up education performance” and “although measures can and should be taken to support education and training providers, this alone will not adequately address need”. (Inter-ed Ltd, 2004, The Greater Shankill—Education Research Report). The pivotal role of agents outside the school—specifically the family and community—on children’s educational development has long been recognised. Parents have been considered “a child’s first and best teacher” (McDevitt, 1997). Conversely the role played by family and community can also limit a child’s educational achievement (Coleman,1988). Building the value placed on education in Protestant working class communities in Belfast would be the greatest contribution to children realising their potential. Raising the status of education is a pre-requisite to raising the standards in areas like Shankill and Inner East Belfast (Greater Shankill Regeneration Strategy, 1993). This requires a strategic approach, which must be long-term, holistic and based on partnership. That strategy must be long term in order to bring about generational and cultural change. It begins with a support strategy for parents in the first three years of their children’s lives, seeking to advantage one new generation of children (The Early Years Project & Surestart—Shankill & East Belfast provide models of good practice). Parental support programmes should continue as the child moves through primary and post primary schooling, with parents increasingly involved in a life long learning process. This holistic approach, with the community rowing in behind a campaign to raise expectations and standards can only be achieved through an eVectively resourced partnership for education between schools, community, parents and children in the areas concerned. Such a partnership needs a context in which it can grow. In October 2003, the former Minister for Education in Northern Ireland, Jane Kennedy, announced her intention to establish a number of “Education Action Zones” in disadvantaged communities. “Up to £2 million a year for the next three years” was made available to make “Education Action Zones” work. She said “I believe that we should be thinking in terms of 10 years plus to allow for proper planning and to enable the Zones to make the full impact that we want to see”, she continued “I would want to see priority given to areas suVering from continued serious community tensions and conflict” (Press Release 9 October 2003). 3249641010 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Since Jane Kennedy’s departure little has been heard of Education Action Zones and nothing has been heard in Shankill or East Belfast. It is our contention that such Education Action Zones, (or their equivalent) properly resourced and constructed to allow the development of relevant education formulas would provide a context in which required wrap around partnerships for education could grow. Maggie Andrews Sammy Douglas John MacVicar Jackie Redpath November 2005
Written evidence from Mr J Keith, Mr S A McCrea and Mr N J Uprichard
1. Introduction
1.1 As a group we welcome the opportunity to make an oral submission to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee. The following written submission is a short summary of our views. 1.2 In making our submission to the Committee we do not claim to speak for the whole of the Secondary Controlled Sector. However, we believe the views we hold and wish to express to the Committee are broadly representative of the views held by the majority of principals who work in the sector.
2. Recent Research and Reports
2.1 We endorse the vision as outlined in the Burns Report and adopted by Costello, (3.2) the education service . . . “will recognise the individual abilities and needs of all young people, and provide them with high quality education, enabling them to realise their potential, to lead fulfilling lives and to play productive and positive roles in society as persons whose learning and development have been holistic.” Following upon this we believe the objective as stated in Costello (3.3) is worthy of aspiring to. “To provide high quality, flexible post primary education that develops all young people, enables them to fulfil their potential and prepares them to participate actively in life and work in a diverse and changing world.”
2.2 We are in broad agreement with the seven guiding principles outlined in the Costello Report but we wish to make it clear that choice, respect and partnership should not be used as a means of justifying selection and segregation or retaining the status of any one particular type of school. 2.3 We believe the system of provision for KS4 and post 16 as proposed in the Burns Report and revised in the Costello Report is somewhat contrived and cumbersome. The proposals fall into the age old trap of being excessively over content and assessment driven. At post 16 the requirement for a minimum of 27 courses is restrictive. Far from developing the curriculum it restricts it and ensures that only one type of institution is ever likely to be involved in the delivery of post 16 education. We do not believe the proposals for collaboration and partnerships as outlined in Costello are workable or cost eVective. We do not believe these proposals will ensure equality of opportunity nor will they develop capacity to deliver the entitlement curriculum as proposed by CCEA. The time has come to provide a common entitlement curriculum free of the constraints of school type, bureaucracy and heartache which characterise a selective system.
2.4 We are concerned that the proposals under entitlement framework (Costello 4.22), Key Stage 4 pupils should have access to a minimum of 24 courses, of which at least one third should be academic and one third vocational, are unworkable in many Secondary Controlled Schools. We believe them to be unworkable because the proposal does not take suYcient account of demographic trends and the eVect they have had on, and will continue to have on our sector. The proposals for partnerships would inevitably place an unequal burden of responsibility upon the smaller schools, which in the majority of cases would be the Secondary Schools, to ensure full entitlement.
2.5 The Gallagher/Smith research (September 2000), indicated that there are almost 15,000 surplus places in the post primary sector. The fall in pupil numbers has had a devastating eVect on many schools in the Secondary Sector. Over the past 10 years or so our sector has had many school closures and amalgamations. Many other schools in our sector are just about viable and many suVer because they are left to deal with the most diYcult and or socially disadvantaged pupils in our society. 3249641011 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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3. A Secondary Sector Perception on Selection 3.1 Secondary schools have played a vital role in the Northern Ireland Education System. The sector has provided excellent service to the many thousands of children who every yearsuVer the hurt inflicted upon them by the current system of selection. 3.2 Selection has serviced the needs of a system and not the needs of our children. Quite clearly a system which includes grades such as A, B1, B2 etc, is designed to allow for a pecking order to exist. Every year that pecking order is presided over by the Grammar Schools. 3.3 Selection has for many years distorted the curriculum, damaged the self esteem of a sizable proportion of our school population, engendered disaVection and deprived many schools of vital resources. It has lead to the development of sink schools damaging the prospects of many children in some socially deprived areas of Belfast and elsewhere in the province. 3.4 Grammar Schools which have in the past always argued for selection on the basis that it safeguarded academic standards have not experienced a decline in pupil numbers. Could it be that the argument for maintenance of academic standards is being revised to allow for all available places in Grammar Schools to be filled? If this is the case, and there is evidence to suggest that it is, then surely it is time to go beyond proposals for unwieldy partnerships. It is time to be positive about developing a truly non-selective system rather than waiting for it to happen by default presiding over the slow decline and ultimate demise of some schools whilst others fill to capacity regardless of the ability of their intake. 3.5 At present many children who attend secondary schools face a further process of selection at 16!. These are the children who having attained high standards at GCSE are forced to transfer to continue their studies to A level. Often these children do find places in grammar schools but often they do not because all available A level places have been filled by pupils who ready attend those schools.
4. Conclusions 4.1 We accept the broad principles of entitlement as outlined in the Costello Report and CCEA proposals for a revised curriculum but with the reservations expressed in 2 above. 4.2 We contend that the present system of selection is wasteful of resources, favours one sector and concentrates problems in another. It fails to value all children equally. 4.3 We welcome the fact that the present transfer procedures are to end by the Autumn of 2008. However, we are unconvinced that the Costello proposals for transfer at age 11 will address the current problems of equality of opportunity, distortion of the curriculum, damage to self esteem, disaVection amongst pupils, depressed schools and waste of resources. It is our belief that selection in any form leads to unnecessary division, resentment, upholds privilege and is wasteful of resources. It is time for a vision which sees beyond selection at age 11. 4.4 We believe it is possible to introduce a non-selective system, which can operate eVectively for the good of all pupils in Northern Ireland embracing the basic principles of quality, equality and accessibility for all. 4.5 We believe that the system operated in Scotland provides a model which could be adapted to provide an education for the children of Northern Ireland to: “recognise individual abilities and needs of all young people; provide them with high quality experiences; enable them to realise their potential; be fulfilling, encourage them to play productive and positive roles in society as persons whose learning and development have been holistic;” provide parity of esteem; oVer a broad balanced curriculum at Key Stage 4 and post 16; develop confident, adaptable, skilled and work smart young people. 4.6 We believe if our education system is to be holistic that children of all classes, creeds and colours should be educated together. It is time to develop a vision which sees beyond selection, protectionism and privilege and aVords equal rights and opportunities for all our children. 4.7 We believe that children should be at the heart of any system and that it should be a seamless educational experience from the day and hour a child enters school to third level education. 4.8 We recognise that the current system, divided as it is on the basis of selection, religion, gender and preference for integrated or Irish-medium status poses reformers with what must seem an insurmountable problem. We accept that it is impossible in the face of such diversity and tradition to please all interested parties. We further recognise that research undertaken, proposals made and reports presented over recent years have been thorough, sincere and helpful in attempting to lead the way to a better, fairer education 3249641011 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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system for Northern Ireland. However, we hold to the view that a community based, non-selective system, would provide sound educational opportunities for all. It would take account of demographic trends, maximise the use of valuable resources, reduce bureaucracy and most importantly it would be fair. Mr J Keith MSc BEd Dip(G&C) OBE Principal Boys’ Model School Belfast Member of The Shankill Principals’ Group Mr S A McCrea BEd BA MA (Ed) Principal Ballyclare Secondary School Member of NEELB Chairman of The Association of Head Teachers in Secondary Education Vice Chairman of NEELB Education (Schools Committee) Mr N J Uprichard BEd PGCTE Former Principal Donaghadee High School (1995–99) Former Principal Newtownbreda High School (1999–2004) Former Chairman SEELB Secondary Heads’ Association November 2005
Written evidence from Angela Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland OYce
NEW ARRANGEMENTS FOR POST-PRIMARY EDUCATION
The Case for Change 1. The system of post-primary education in Northern Ireland does well for pupils at the top end of the attainment scale at GCSE and A level, compared to the position in England. In Northern Ireland 60% of pupils achieve five or more GCSEs at Grades A*—C, compared to 54% in England, and 96% achieve two or more A Level passes compared to 94% in England. 2. Yet this academic success masks deep-rooted problems: — The average GCSE point score in Northern Ireland is 327.8 compared to 335.2 in England. — 12% of year pupils in Northern Ireland achieve less than five basic GCSEs compared to 11% in England. — The international PISA research showed that while the performance of NI pupils was on a par with that in England in 2000, the range of performance in Northern Ireland between the highest and lowest performing pupils in 2000 and 2003 was greater than the majority of 32 participating countries. — Some 24% of our working population has no qualifications whatsoever, compared with 15% in the UK as whole. — Only 13% of the Northern Ireland workforce has a degree or equivalent, compared to 16% in the UK as a whole. 3. Research has shown that the current transfer arrangements, which involve a high stakes test at age 11: — segregates pupils into two categories—“successes” and “failures”; — Closes down options for pupils—at an early age, pupils are classified as “academic” or “non- academic” types and there is limited flexibility in the system denying many pupils the opportunity to move between academic and non-academic schools and courses as they mature and develop; — places undue stress and anxiety on pupils, parents and teachers; — leaves many pupils with a lasting sense of failure; — distorts the upper primary school curriculum wasting valuable learning opportunities; — disadvantages children from low income families who cannot aVord to pay for extra coaching; — Perpetuates rather than closes the attainment gap between the “haves” and “have nots”; — Creates problems for secondary school teachers who have to spend considerable time rebuilding pupils’ self esteem and confidence. 4. The selective system perpetuates social disadvantage, with marked inequalities of access and performance: — Only 7% of pupils in grammar schools are from disadvantaged backgrounds, compared to 29% in secondary schools. In non-denominational (mainly protestant) grammar schools the figure is 3%, compared to 22% in controlled (mainly protestant) secondary schools. Over the last three years an average of only 5% of pupils from the Shankill area got a grammar school place. 3249641012 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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— The least disadvantaged pupils are almost three times more likely to achieve a grade A in the Transfer Tests as the most disadvantaged. — The most disadvantaged pupils are only around half as likely to achieve five good GCSEs (A*-C) as the least disadvantaged. — The choice of courses for pupils depends on the school they attend: at Key Stage 4 (age 14–16) choice ranges from six courses to 33 courses and at Post-16 from one course to 27 courses.
The Needs of the Economy 5. Economic conditions have changed. In place of large scale manufacturing, we are looking to high-tech and service industries operating in a global market. The skills needed for tomorrow are diVerent from those of a generation ago. We need to develop creativity, innovation and the entrepreneurial skills to enable the Northern Ireland economy and its people to prosper in an increasingly competitive world. We also need to ensure that our young people are equipped with the skills that employers say many are currently lacking— the basic skills of literacy, numeracy and ICT as well as the ability to solve problems and to work in teams.
Pupil Numbers 6. The number of pupils in post-primary education is declining markedly. This decline is not driving the new post-primary arrangements but it is an important contextual factor that must be taken into account when looking at future arrangements. The trend is clear. Pupil numbers are falling and will continue to fall. 7. By 2015, the post-primary age population is projected to decline by 13% and by 2041 the post-primary population will have fallen by more than a fifth (21%). 8. The arrangements for open enrolment mean that where a school has places available, applicants must be admitted. Grammar schools are currently seen as the preferred choice of many parents and the combination of this and falling pupil numbers is having the eVect of: — increasing the proportion of pupils admitted to grammar schools, assuming those schools continue to admit up to their capacity. — further widening the ability profile of grammar school intakes, requiring those schools to adjust their teaching and learning to make appropriate provision for pupils admitted. (In September 2004, 9% of pupils admitted to grammar schools had grades C or D in the Transfer Tests compared to 4% in September 1998. Last year 88% of grammar schools admitted pupils with grades C or D). — concentrating the impact of reducing numbers in secondary (non-grammar) schools with consequences for budgets, teacher numbers and the range of courses available to pupils. There is also a narrowing of the ability range and a greater concentration of pupils with behaviour and discipline problems with consequences for the range and quality of education provided. 9. Under current legislation, grammar schools can seek approval from the Department of Education to refuse to admit a child to Year 8 on the basis that admission would be detrimental to the educational interests of the child. However, very few choose to do so. This year, only three grammar schools applied to the Department for approval and 15 pupils were refused admission on this basis.
Post Primary Review Working Group 10. The Post-Primary Review Working Group, whose membership included representatives from all the main education interests, was required by its remit to provide advice on options for new post-primary arrangements, taking account of the responses to the consultation on the Burns report, including the diversity of views on academic selection. It recommended a set of principles that should underpin new arrangements. It concluded that no form of academic selection would remove the high-stakes, high-stress element and that academic selection at age 11 is itself educationally unsound, as this age is too young to commit pupils to particular pathways. The Group also concluded that it should not be assumed that more able children should follow only an academic style of education and it therefore recommended that future transfer arrangements should be based on informed parental and pupil choice. It recommended that the last Transfer Tests should take place in autumn 2008 to allow time for the new arrangements to be put in place. It also recommended that all pupils should have access to a minimum number of academic and vocational courses at key stage 4 and post-16 and that schools should collaborate with each other and with further education colleges to provide this access. 11. In January 2004, the Government accepted the recommendations of the Post-Primary Review Working Group as a sound basis on which to develop new arrangements for post-primary education. Those recommendations provide the framework and timetable for implementation and work to achieve this is proceeding. 3249641012 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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New Arrangements 12. The focus of the new arrangements will be on the needs of the pupil. The reform of post-primary education is much wider than the arrangements for pupils to transfer from primary to post-primary education. It is part of an integrated programme of reforms which also includes the implementation of the new curriculum, the development and enhancement of the schools estate and the continuing development of ICT as a teaching and learning tool. These are being taken forward as a coordinated programme called “Entitled to Succeed” (e2s). The Department of Education and the Department for Employment and Learning are working closely together to support the delivery of the wider range of opportunities for young people, to ensure that there is coherence in the approach to the provision for 14–19 year olds and to maximise the use of the resources available in the schools and further education and training sectors for the benefit of all. 13. Key elements of the new arrangements include — New curriculum; — An Entitlement Framework; — Greater collaboration among schools and between schools and the further education sector; — Greater coherence in 14–19 provision including an increased role for the further education sector; — All existing schools types having a role, and the development of specialist schools; — New admission arrangements; — A Pupil Profile.
Curriculum 14. The new curriculum will cover all the basic learning areas but will have a much smaller compulsory element. This will give teachers greater freedom to tailor their teaching to what individual pupils need rather than requiring all pupils to follow the same statutory curriculum. During key stage 3 all pupils will have a broad general education and in key stage 4, commensurate with pupils’ developing interests and focus on future career paths, there will be a reduced statutory core to provide greater flexibility for all pupils to opt for those areas of learning that are of greatest interest and relevance to them. In parallel there will be a clear focus on developing skills, Learning for Life and Work and employability.
Entitlement Framework 15. The purpose is to widen choice for all pupils, including opportunities to experience and benefit from diVerent learning experiences and environments. The Entitlement Framework will guarantee all pupils access to a wide range of educational opportunities, including a wider range of vocational courses. Irrespective of where pupils live or the school they attend they should have the same minimum entitlement. Access to a minimum of 24 courses will be available for pupils in key stage 4 and 27 for post-16 pupils. At least one third of these courses will be academic and at least one third will be applied. 16. Schools will work with each other, with Further Education Colleges and with approved training organisations to make these course choices available. This approach will secure the most eVective and eYcient use of school and college resources and provide pupils with the opportunities to access the wide range of facilities and equipment available in the Further Education colleges and training organisations. 17. At age 14, taking account of careers advice and their career plans and interests, pupils will choose which courses they wish to follow and how many. Most of these will be available in their own school but some pupils will also access courses in other schools, FE colleges and training organisations.
Collaboration/Role for Further Education Sector 18. Initial guidance on the Entitlement Framework issued to schools in June 2005. Further guidance providing more detailed information about the practical considerations of delivering the Entitlement Framework, including aspects of cooperation and collaboration, transport, timetabling issues and pastoral care will issue to schools in January 2006. 19. Schools working together with others will develop the collaborative arrangements that will best meet the needs of their pupils. Key considerations will be the eVective and eYcient use of resources and also the need to maximise pupils’ learning opportunities. Not all pupils will need to follow courses outside their own school. For those who follow courses oVered beyond their school, travel time for pupils will be kept to the minimum through block timetabling, teachers travelling rather than pupils or by the use of ICT and distance learning. 20. We recognise that schools will need help to do all this. Earlier this year additional resources were made available to education and library boards, the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools and to the sponsor bodies for the integrated and Irish-medium sectors to enable them to facilitate and support the work of schools in developing such arrangements. 3249641013 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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21. A Vocational Enhancement Programme (VEP) jointly funded by the Department of Education and the Department of Employment and Learning, is supporting collaboration between schools and FE colleges and will provide feedback to inform future developments. This year 160 schools and all 16 Further Education colleges are involved in this initiative with approximately 11,500 pupils benefiting from courses that would not otherwise have been available to them. The Department of Education is arranging a conference in the new year which will focus on the delivery of the Entitlement Framework and enable the lessons from VEP to be disseminated and discussed.
Existing school types 22. All existing school types will continue to exist under the new arrangements, including grammar schools and it is important to dispel three myths: — Grammar schools are not being abolished; — Comprehensive education is not being imposed; and — Schools are not being forced into becoming all ability schools. There will be a wider choice of schools under the new arrangements, ranging from those with an academic emphasis, to those with a vocational emphasis, to those with a mix of academic and vocational provision and specialist schools.
Specialist schools 23. The purpose of specialist status is to build whole school improvement by learning and applying the lessons from those curricular areas in which the school displays a particular strength to other areas of the curriculum. This cross fertilisation of good practice leads to whole school improvement. 24. Of equal importance are the links that the specialism builds with other schools in the area, further disseminating good practice and increasing collaboration. Links with local businesses and the community are also fostered, bringing a range of benefits and giving pupils new access to expertise and learning experiences. 25. There is clear evidence that specialist schools work. Research evidence shows that pupil performance (measured in terms of overall achievements and value added) in specialist schools is higher than in non- specialist schools. Furthermore, OFSTED surveys have demonstrated that specialist schools are moving forward more than other schools and that specialist status has helped schools to push forward whole-school improvement and has acted as a catalyst for innovation. 26. The Northern Ireland specialist schools pilot will test the suitability of the specialist schools model for Northern Ireland and seek ways to tailor it to local circumstances. The pilot will test: — the role of specialist schools in helping to increase and improve choice for pupils and parents and drive up educational standards in Northern Ireland; — the application process; — the range of specialisms; and — the impact on schools with a range of diVerent characteristics. 27. The first stage of the application process for the pilot was sent to all post-primary schools on 5 September. The Department received applications from schools of all management types seeking designation in a range of specialisms. 28. An independent Panel provided the Department with a select list of 13 schools that met the specified criteria. On 7 November, these schools were invited to complete a full application for return to the Department by 10 February 2006. 29. We intend to announce the final list of successful schools in March 2006 and they will operate as Specialist Schools from 1 September 2006.
New admission arrangements 30. Academic selection and the Transfer Tests will end with the last tests being held in autumn 2008. Future transfer arrangements will be based on informed parental choice. 31. Parents will have access to a range of information including the Pupil Profile, advice from the primary school and from prospective post-primary schools together with greater information about what post- primary schools have to oVer. Parents will decide which school they feel will best meet their child’s educational needs. 32. An extensive consultation on new admissions arrangements took place earlier this year. We received over 14,000 responses which have been analysed and a summary of the responses has been prepared. I have also had discussions with those representing the full range of views to discuss their responses to the consultation, including political parties, education and library boards, the Council for Catholic Maintained 3249641013 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Schools, the Governing Bodies Association of Voluntary Grammar Schools, the Secondary Heads Association (representing grammar schools), the Confederation of Former Grammar Schools Pupils, Concerned Parents for Education, Parental Alliance for Choice in Education, the Association of Head Teachers in Secondary Schools, the main Teacher Unions, the Ulster Farmers’ Union, the Confederation of British Industry, the Institute of Directors, the Children’s Commissioner and children. I wanted to hear the full range of views before taking decisions on the new admissions arrangements. 33. I have considered the responses and the views expressed and on 6 December I will publish a summary of the responses to the consultation on new admissions arrangements for post-primary schools, announce the way forward and make a statement about the future arrangements for post-primary education.
Pupil profile 34. The Pupil Profile will provide a range of information about a pupil’s progress and capabilities throughout their education, not just at transfer age. It will help pupils and parents make choices and it will help teachers to plan their teaching for individual pupils. CCEA has been developing, testing and refining the Pupil Profile over the last two years, including piloting it in a number of schools. Further testing is ongoing with the aim of ensuring that pupils, parents and teachers have confidence in the Pupil Profile. 35. The development of the key stage one and key stage two Pupil Profile is well advanced, and the development of the key stage three and key stage four Pupil Profiles have started. The Pupil Profile will be rolled out to all age groups by 2009–10. Annex 1 is a copy of the current version of the key stage one and two Pupil Profile. 36. Teachers will complete the Pupil Profile each year based on pupils’ work during the year and teachers will be able to use diVerent assessment methods, including some computer-based tasks, to help to inform their professional judgement. These will include the key areas of literacy and numeracy. The assessment tasks will also help teachers to identify high and low levels of performance and to tailor their teaching to individual pupils’ needs. 37. The Pupil Profile is not designed to be used as a selection tool; it is not capable of ranking pupils and it will not be used for any other purpose than providing information to parents, pupils and teachers and as a basis for discussion regarding a pupil’s future education and career path.
ICT 38. ICT has a central role in progressing the new post-primary arrangements through teaching and learning approaches, the delivery of the new curriculum, as an assessment tool and in delivering the Entitlement Framework. A number of pilots are ongoing to develop ICT as a teaching and learning tool and the new curriculum will ensure that ICT is embedded in all subjects.
Schools estate 39. There has been considerable investment in the school estate in recent years, with over £480 million having been allocated for 86 major schemes over the past two years. The Investment Strategy for N Ireland identifies the need for over £3 billion of investment in new schools over the next 10 years, thus facilitating an ongoing programme of investment in renewal of the estate. The aim is to provide modern buildings and facilities for learning to ensure that every child is able to achieve the maximum benefit from their education. 40. With the fall in the pupil population in recent years, there are around 47,000 surplus places in the estate. Over the next decade, it is projected that the pupil population will fall by a further 40,000 pupils. The Department of Education is introducing improved strategic planning of the estate which will take account of the need for rationalisation of the estate to reflect more closely the expected pupil numbers.
Progress towards implementation 41. Good progress has been made on a wide range of fronts and this is outlined in the attached e2s newsletter (Annex 2 (not printed)) which issued to schools in October 2005. A timeline showing key dates in the implementation process is in Annex 3.
Legislation 42. Legislation has been drafted to give eVect to the implementation of the new curriculum, the Entitlement Framework and decisions on new admissions arrangements. This will be published for consultation on 6 December. The Proposal for a draft Education Order and explanatory memorandum are being widely circulated for comments. I will carefully consider the responses and decide whether any changes should be made to the draft Order before it is laid before Parliament for approval in the spring. 3249641013 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Further material for submission to committee 43. I will arrange for copies of my statement about future arrangements for post-primary education, the summary of the responses to the admissions consultation and the Proposal for a draft Order and explanatory memorandum to be sent to the Committee on 6 December.
Conclusion 44. Taken together, the reforms of post-primary education will: — remove the high stakes nature of the current transfer arrangements; — provide greater flexibility and choice, and keep pupils’ options open for as long as possible; — provide all pupils with education to meet their individual needs; — provide greater equality of opportunity, and raise standards for all; — secure, over time, greater parity of esteem between schools of diVerent types and oVering diVering curricular emphases. 6 December 2005 3249641013 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Annex 1 PUPIL PROFILE: Key Stage 1 and 2 Exemplar
Note: This is the current version of the profile. However, it is subject to modification to take account of the outcomes of further piloting, and further consideration by CCEA
Pupil Profile
Name:
Class
Teacher:
Attendance:
Punctuality:
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Skills Developed Across the Curriculum Comments on the development of skills and capabilities to promote better learning Communication (Abilities to read, listen, respond to [Teachers comments] & present information & ideas in both speaking & writing) Talking & Listening Level Reading Level Writing Level
Using Mathematics (Ability to use [Teachers comments] mathematical knowledge & skills in a range of relevant, real situations) Mathematics Level:
Information & Communication Technologies [Teachers comments] (Knowledge, skills & understanding ICT Level: needed to use ICT appropriately in learning & everyday life) 3249641013 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Overview of Progression of Thinking Skills and Personal Capabilities (including Being Creative/Managing Information/Thinking, Problem Solving & Decision Making/Self Management/Working with others)
[Teacher comments]
Progress within the Learning Areas
The Arts (including music, art and [Teacher comments] drama)
Personal Development (including personal understanding and [Teacher comments] health, mutual understanding in the local and global community
Physical Education [Teacher comments]
The World Around Us (including [Teacher comments] geography, history, science and technology) Religious Education (optional) [Teacher comments] 3249641013 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Language (optional)
[Teacher comments]
Attitudes,Aptitude and Interests
[Teacher comments]
Focus for Development Teacher’s comment
Parents’ comment
Additional Comments
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Principal: Date:
Pupil’s input
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Annex 3
NEW ARRANGEMENTS FOR POST-PRIMARY EDUCATION
KEY MILESTONES
2005–06 School Year September 05 Specialist Schools Pilot announced and schools invited to participate Pupil Profile—extended pilots Vocational Enhancement Programme (VEP)—Phase 2 begins Autumn 05 Resources to managing authorities to support schools to work towards oVering a wider range of courses in collaboration with others as the first stage of implementing the Entitlement Framework November 05 Selected schools invited to complete stage 2 of Specialist School Pilot application process December 05 Admissions Consultation Summary Report published Decisions on new admission arrangements announced Proposal for a draft Order published for consultation VEP Phase 3 (2006/07)—guidance and application forms issued to schools January 06 2nd tranche of guidance on the Entitlement Framework issued to schools Conference for schools on Delivering the Entitlement Framework March 06 Closing date for consultation on draft Order (12 wk minimum) March 06 Announcement of successful pilot Specialist Schools VEP Phase 3 (2006/07) funding notified to schools Mid May 06 Date of laying of Draft Education Order June 06 Draft Education Order Debates Schools invited to participate in 2nd phase of Specialist Schools Pilot July 06 Draft Education Order made at Privy Council 2006–07 School Year Aug–Sept 06 Education Order comes into operation Sept 06 Phased implementation of new curriculum begins Pupil Profile—large-scale pilot begins VEP phase 3 begins Widening access and collaboration to deliver the Entitlement Framework supported by managing authorities Sept 06–Jan 07 Drafting of admissions regulations Jan 07 Admissions regulations published for consultation
2007–08 School Year Sept 07 Pupil Profile in place for year 5 Phased roll-out of detailed curriculum begins (all Key Stages) 2nd pilot of Specialist Schools begins Further widening of access and collaboration to deliver the Entitlement Framework supported by managing authorities Autumn 07 Final decisions on admissions regulations Commencement Order to bring admissions provisions and regulations into operation 2008–09 School Year Sept 08 Implementation of new admissions arrangements for current P6 year (in parallel with last Transfer Tests for P7 year) Phased roll-out of the new curriculum continues Pupil profile in place for years 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 9 Further tranche of Specialist Schools Further widening of access and collaboration to deliver the Entitlement Framework
2009–10 School Year Sept 09 Final year of curriculum roll-out begins—all Key Stages complete Pupil Profile in place for years 1 to 12. Entitlement Framework becomes a statutory requirement Admissions regulations come into operation to apply to admissions to post-primary schools from September 2010 3249649014 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence (16 January 2005) from Angela Smith MP, Minister for Education, Northern Ireland OYce In the course of the evidence session on 14 December, I undertook to provide additional information for the Committee. This follows below.
Q187 Details of meetings with key interests about new post-primary arrangements. In my evidence to the Committee I referred to meetings with grammar school interests and those who are promoting and supporting the new post-primary arrangements. Details of these meetings are set out in Annex 1. In addition, to ensure that I was aware of all shades of opinion before making decisions about the admissions arrangements which I announced on 6 December, I arranged other meetings with a wide range on interests, including the main political parties and parents interest groups following the consultation on the admission arrangements. Details of these meetings are set out in Annex 2. I cannot provide details of the duration of the meetings as they often overran, but I have included details of the time allocated in my diary for each of them.
Q228 Details of resources to support the implementation of new post-primary arrangements. It is not possible to detail the overall costs of implementing the new post-primary arrangements. This is because a large proportion of the costs will relate to the development of collaboration among schools and between schools and further education colleges, to deliver the Entitlement Framework. The new arrangements in each locality will be developed by schools and school managing authorities working together and with the further education sector to determine how best to meet local wishes, needs and circumstances. Any implications for the schools estate will be taken into account as part of ongoing capital planning. £24.7 million has been made available to the Department of Education to begin to implement the new post-primary arrangements over the current spending review period 2005–06 to 2007–08. The purpose of these resources is to provide the capacity for schools to prepare for the change to the new arrangements, including work on developing the Pupil Profile, piloting arrangements for cooperation and collaboration among schools and between schools and the further education sector, and piloting the concept of specialist schools. This initial work will enable the Department of Education to estimate the future costs beyond March 2008 and will be the subject of further consideration during the next spending review. The focus of these resources is on: — Enabling school managing authorities to facilitate and support schools to begin to develop collaborative arrangements with other schools and further education colleges and generally to support work by schools to prepare for the implementation of new post-primary arrangements. — Piloting arrangements for collaborative partnerships between schools and further education colleges through the Vocational Enhancement Programme (VEP). A circular setting out the detailed arrangements for VEP in 2006–07 issued to all post-primary schools and further education colleges on 6 January. A copy is enclosed for your information. — The continuing development and trialling of the Pupil Profile. — The development of new vocational qualifications. — Piloting the concept of specialist schools in the Northern Ireland context. — Consultation on key aspects of the new arrangements as they are developed and on ensuring that schools, parents and the wider public are kept advised of decisions about the new arrangements as they are made. The indicative allocations over the period 2005–06 to 2007–08 under these key headings are as follows:
Resources for schools in developing collaborative arrangements with other schools and with FE colleges to deliver the Entitlement Framework (includes expenditure on VEP). £12.5 million Additional support to managing authorities to enable them to support schools in delivering access to the Entitlement Framework. £3.8 million Development of Specialist Schools. £4.7 million Resources to support the development and roll-out of the Pupil Profile and the development of vocational qualifications. £2.6 million Consultation and Information Strategy. £1.1 million TOTAL £24.7 million 3249649014 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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I must emphasise that these are indicative figures only and the allocations in each of the years will be determined according to actual needs as they are assessed. I am satisfied that the resources available will enable the education sector in Northern Ireland to prepare for the implementation of new arrangements after the final Transfer Tests take place in autumn 2008.
Q241 To keep the Committee informed about a meeting with Dr Morrison. In response to the public invitation made by the Committee Chairman at the evidence session on 14 December, I received a request for a meeting from Dr Morrison on 10 January. My Private OYce is making the necessary arrangements for this meeting to take place.
Q258 Information about specialist schools. There are 12 schools currently preparing application forms seeking Specialist Schools status. Applications should be submitted to the Department by 10 February 2006 and, following assessment by an independent panel, schools to be included in the pilot will be announced in March 2006. In the short term, the Department of Education will evaluate the appropriateness of the application process, including the requirement to raise sponsorship, by: — consulting with all those schools (46) that applied for inclusion in the pilot; — consulting with the independent panel; — seeking the views of the school managing authorities; and — seeking the views of colleagues within the Department and in the Department of Employment and Learning. In due course I will update the Committee about the application process. In the longer term, and as part of the ongoing monitoring and evaluation of the impact on the pilot schools and their partner schools, the Education and Training Inspectorate will monitor and evaluate the progress of pilot schools against targets set in the School Development Plan and the Community Development Plan for the next four years.
Q259 Information about additional resources made available for special needs education. In 2005–06 additional resources of £1,618k (balance of SR2002) and £8,400 k (SR2004) were allocated to meet the needs of pupils with SEN. This included support to children with SEN statements in mainstream schools, including costs arising as a result of Special Educational Needs and Disability Order. The recent announcement of an additional £3.5 million and of some £5 million in 2006–07 and £15 million in 2007–08 for special educational needs will further enhance provision. 16 January 2005
Annex 1
Meetings held with Barry Gardiner and Angela Smith to discuss New Post-Primary Arrangements
Name of Organisation Date Time Allocated Minister Association of Head Teachers in 25/08/2004 60 mins Barry Gardiner Secondary Schools (AHTSS) AHTSS 03/10/2005 30 mins Angela Smith Council for Catholic Maintained Schools 19/10/2004 60 mins Barry Gardiner (CCMS) CCMS 15/09/2005 60 mins Angela Smith Concerned Parents for Education (CPE)/ 17/10/2005 30 mins Angela Smith Parental Alliance for Choice in Education (PACE)/ Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Association (CGSFPA) Governing Bodies Association (GBA) 27/04/2004 45 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 17/05/2004 45 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 24/05/2004 60 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 02/08/2004 90 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 22/09/2004 60 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 18/10/2004 180 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 06/12/2004 60 mins Barry Gardiner 3249649014 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Name of Organisation Date Time Allocated Minister GBA 17/02/2005 60 mins Barry Gardiner GBA 16/06/2005 30 mins Angela Smith GBA 04/10/2005 30 mins Angela Smith Irish National Teachers’ Organisation 04/03/2005 60 mins Barry Gardiner (INTO) National Association of Schoolmasters 05/03/2005 90 mins Barry Gardiner Union of Women Teachers (NASUWT) Secondary Heads Association (SHA) 12/10/2004 90 mins Barry Gardiner SHA 16/11/2005 30 mins Angela Smith
Annex 2
Meetings with Angela Smith to discuss new Post-Primary arrangements
Date Name of Organisation Time Allocated Requested by 16/06/05* Governing Bodies Association 30 mins Minister 01/09/05 Comhairle na Gaelscolaı´ochta 45 mins Minister 15/09/05* Council for Catholic Maintained Schools 60 mins Minister 15/09/05 General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland 45 mins Minister 03/10/05* Association of Head Teachers in Secondary Schools 30 mins Minister 04/10/05* Governing Bodies Association 30 mins Minister 17/10/05* Concerned Parents for Education/Parental Alliance for Choice in Education/ Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Association 30 mins Minister 17/10/05 Northern Ireland Teachers’ Council 30 mins Minister 17/10/05 South Eastern Education and Library Board SEELB Principals 60 mins Principals 17/10/05 Comhairle na Gaelscolaı´ochta 30 mins Minister 17/10/05 Transferor Representatives’ Council 30 mins Minister 25/10/05 Northern Ireland Council for Children and Young people 30 mins Minister 31/10/05 Democratic Unionist Party 30 mins Minister 31/10/05 Social Democratic and Labour Party 30 mins Minister 31/10/05 Ulster Unionist Party 30 mins Minister 07/11/05 Sinn Fein 45 mins Minister 08/11/05 Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education 45 mins Minister 16/11/05 Northern Catholic Bishops 60 mins Minister 16/11/05* Secondary Heads Association 30 mins Minister 16/11/05 Institute of Directors 30 mins Minister 18/11/05 Ulster Farmers’ Union 30 mins Minister 22/11/05 Association of Northern Ireland Education and Library Boards 45 mins Minister
* These meetings are also included in Annex 1. 3249649014 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Circular from the Department for Employment and Learning Subject: Circular Number: DEL FE 13/05 VOCATIONAL ENHANCEMENT PROGRAMME 2006–07 DE 2006/03 Date of Issue: 6 January 2006
Target Audience: Governor Awareness: — Principals/Directors of FE Colleges Essential — Chairs of Governing Bodies (FE) — Principals of post-primary schools — Principals of Special Schools with post-primary pupils Status of Contents: — Chairs of Boards of Governors (schools) For information and action by colleges and schools Summary of Contents: This circular, issued by the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) and the Department of Education (DE), details the arrangements for schools and colleges wishing to participate in the Vocational Enhancement Programme (VEP) during 2006–07. Related Documents: This circular describes: Stage 1 and 2 application forms — How VEP is evolving; Exemplar Service Level Agreement (available on DE/DEL websites) — The funding available for 2006–07 and the criteria to be used to determine funding and where applications for Superseded Documents: funding exceed the total sum available; DEL FE 02/05 — The application and approval process for 2006–07 DE 2005/17 including the timescales for applications and decisions. Expiry Date: N/A
Introduction 1. This circular has been prepared by the Department of Education (DE) and the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) to inform schools and Further Education colleges about funding for the Vocational Enhancement Programme (VEP) in the 2006–07 academic year.
Background 2. The development of collaborative partnerships at a local level is aimed at extending the vocational oVer available to school pupils, and assisting schools and others to work together in ways which will become the norm once the Entitlement Framework becomes a statutory requirement from September 2009. Whilst the VEP focuses on extending such vocational provision, it is set within the wider context of the Entitlement Framework, which will in time also extend the academic oVer available to pupils. 3. The VEP is a transitional programme, the aim of which is to provide the two Departments with the opportunity to test models of eVective collaborative working, and disseminate good practice to schools and colleges.
How VEP is Evolving 4. During 2004–05, six colleges and 34 schools were involved in the programme, with 16 colleges and 175 schools participating in 2005–06. 5. An independent evaluation of the first year of VEP (2004–05) revealed many positive aspects of collaboration between schools and colleges, with tangible benefits for the pupils, schools and colleges involved. It also identified a number of obstacles to collaborative working, and these are being addressed in DE’s further guidance to schools on the Entitlement Framework, and the refinement of the VEP application process for 2006–07. A further evaluation is being undertaken for the 2005–06 academic year, the result of which will be shared with schools and colleges. 6. The two Departments have agreed that VEP in 2006–07 will be based on the college-led model of collaboration employed in 2005–06, with some refinements. Whilst this has proved an eVective model, the legislative responsibility to secure access for pupils to the required range of courses in the Entitlement Framework will rest with schools, and VEP needs to evolve accordingly. VEP in 2006–07 will therefore be a more learner-centered purchaser/provider model, funded primarily through colleges, with schools expected to take a more proactive role in forming collaborative arrangements. 3249649014 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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7. When schools are considering the range of vocational courses they wish to provide their pupils with access to, it will be important that best use is made of the specialist facilities and lecturing expertise on oVer. It is not in pupils’ interests to have unnecessary duplication of provision, and the two Departments will take this into account when considering applications. 8. Provision in an area is likely to be most eVective where it results from discussions at a local level involving schools and FE colleges, and which complements and extends the options available, in a way that addresses the needs of individual pupils. 9. The Entitlement Framework will not prescribe how schools should provide their pupils with access to vocational education and training. However, most vocational provision outside of the school will be arranged in partnership with FE Colleges. VEP in 2006–07 is structured in a way that reflects this reality. Schools wishing to work with other providers of vocational education and training may also submit applications to the DE/DEL assessment panel. In such cases, schools must satisfy themselves that the provider meets the necessary standards in terms of health and safety, pastoral care etc. 10. Vocational courses may be delivered at a school or a college, or a combination of sites. This information will be requested as part of the application process so that the Departments can monitor the evolving pattern of collaborative activity under VEP. 11. The evaluation of VEP to date has highlighted the value of schools providing some induction for college staV to help ensure that they are familiar with the school’s modus operandi and to help with progression between school and college. Evaluation evidence also supports the practice of having a supervisory school presence oV-site, and the value of parental involvement prior to a pupil being involved in the VEP. 12. The two Departments are keen that applications should reflect some other features of the Entitlement Framework: innovative approaches to the delivery of courses such as distance learning; groups of schools collaborating with a provider to deliver a course, or lecturers travelling to schools. Ideally, there should be a good geographic spread in VEP provision, with bids from schools in both rural and urban areas. In addition, it would be desirable to have boys and girls, and the two age groups (14–16 and post-16), as well represented as possible. 13. In summary, the objectives for this phase of VEP are: — To improve access to high quality vocational courses for school pupils; — To move towards a purchaser/provider funding model; — To build upon good practice and established collaborative activity; — To promote innovative and eVective collaborative working (which may take a number of forms, for example, schools grouping together to ensure that applications meet class size viability thresholds).
Funding 14. The two Departments have committed a total of £4 million for the 2006–07 academic year to take VEP forward, which matches the sum committed for 2005–06. This amount is in addition to funding that DE will provide during the 2006–07 academic year to allow pupils to complete their second year of study under Phase 6 of the Key Stage 4 Flexibility Initiative. The £4 million for VEP is earmarked and will be used exclusively for that purpose. 15. The Entitlement Framework will foster a purchaser/provider relationship between schools and colleges, and the VEP will increasingly reflect that. The transitional nature of VEP in 2006–07 means that funding will again be directed towards colleges, however, schools will be more actively involved in the application process. Schools will be required to liaise with their local FE college, and neighbouring schools if class sizes are small, to determine the content of their VEP application. FE colleges will be responsible for collating applications from schools in their area, and submitting composite bids to a joint DE/DEL project team for consideration. The application form requires evidence that the proposed provision has been agreed by all parties involved. 16. The Key Stage 4 Flexibility Initiative will end with the introduction of the revised curriculum in September 2006. Funding during 2006–07 will be provided for pupils in their second year of study, allocated by DE on the same basis as previous phases of the initiative. Activity previously funded under this initiative may be eligible for funding under VEP.
Funding Criteria 17. The overarching objective is to oVer opportunities that best meet the educational needs of pupils. In order to protect the interests of pupils, priority will be assigned to bids that relate to pupils in the second year of a two year VEP funded course, and the application process requires schools to clearly identify such pupils. Both Departments wish VEP to have relevance for special schools, and until the full implications of the Entitlement Framework for this sector are clear, applications will continue to be considered even if all the criteria cannot be met. 3249649014 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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18. Within that context, there are four main strands to the criteria for VEP in 2006–07, which reflect the priorities of the two sponsoring departments. Firstly, quality of vocational provision and clear progression routes; secondly, degree of fit with priority skills areas in order to meet economic needs; thirdly, the economic viability of course provision in terms of class size; and finally, how the proposed provision demonstrates collaborative intent by schools, and enables the school to move closer to meeting the full requirements of the Entitlement Framework. These priorities are described in greater detail in the following paragraphs.
Quality of Provision and Clear Progression Routes 19. It is important that schools should be able to demonstrate that the proposed vocational provision is in the best interests of its pupils, and oVers clear progression routes that complement the provision of careers advice within the school. Where possible, schools should demonstrate the involvement of parents and pupils in agreeing the proposed provision.
Priority Skill Areas 20. Priority will be given to innovative proposals that encourage the development of enterprise skills among young people through provision that relates clearly to economic requirements (local and/or regional), the promotion of employability and entrepreneurship. To ensure opportunities for progression, courses considered for funding will be those that will lead to an accredited qualification or are units of courses that could lead to an accredited qualification. Bids for funding will be assessed using the following priority areas. (a) Skills: provision that is — on the National Qualifications Framework1 (NQF); and — clearly and robustly linked to any of the following 6 priority skill areas. — Software Engineering — Electronics — Manufacturing Engineering — ICT — Hospitality, Catering and Tourism — Construction As a guide to what is considered suitable provision within the 6 priority skill areas, schools should refer to the 15 ‘New Sector and Subject Categories’ (NSSC), which are described within QCA’s database of accredited qualifications www.openquals.org.uk. (b) Local relevance: provision that is — on the National Qualifications Framework1 (NQF); and — clearly in line with the following areas of the NSSC: — Area 1 — Health, public services and care — Area 3 — Agriculture, Horticulture and Animal Care — Area 7 — Retail and Commercial Enterprise — Area 8 — Leisure, Travel and Tourism — Area 9 — Arts, Media and publishing — Area 14 — Preparation for Life and work
Viability of Classes 21. The VEP experience in 2005–06 has prompted both departments to assign a lower priority to bids which are not economically viable in terms of class size. In such cases, schools should consider clustering with other schools in their locality to increase class size. This reflects how schools will operate once the Entitlement Framework becomes a statutory requirement. 22. Following discussions between DEL and the FE sector, it has been agreed that a minimum class size, for the purposes of VEP, should be 16 pupils. Bids with class sizes smaller than 16 will be assigned a lower priority, and if they are funded, it is likely that this will be at a reduced level. Schools should liaise with neighbouring schools and their local FE College to ensure that the minimum class size is achieved and maintained.
1 If schools wish to include as part of their bid a course that meets all the stated criteria except for being on the NQF, they may contact DE to receive advice prior to submitting an application. Whilst courses outside the NQF will not be supported in almost all cases, both departments are prepared to consider the possibility of a small number of exceptions if the vocational benefits for pupils are compelling. 3249649014 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Collaboration and the Entitlement Framework 23. As part of the application process, schools are required to describe in what way they have acted collaboratively, for example, clustering with neighbouring schools to achieve a viable class size. Schools must also describe how the proposed provision enhances the current range of course options open to pupils. This will demonstrate to the joint DE/DEL assessment panel that schools are considering appropriate collaborative arrangements in order to progress towards meeting the requirements of the Entitlement Framework. 24. The Departments are aware that local “learning communities” are already forming in certain areas. This consortium approach will facilitate local dialogue and the development of proposals for a coherent range of provision.
Application Process and Timetable 25. On receipt of this guidance, schools should initiate discussions with their local FE College(s) to identify courses that would best meet the needs of their pupils. For convenience, listed below are the relevant contacts:
Armagh Mr T Kennedy 028 3752 2205 t.kennedywarmaghcollege.ac.uk Belfast Ann Marie Barr 028 9026 5496 abarrwbelfastinstitute.ac.uk Castlereagh James Lee 028 9070 8201 j.leewcastlereagh.ac.uk Causeway Mr I Houston 028 7034 0113 ian.houstonwcauseway.ac.uk East Antrim Mrs Pamela Shields 028 9085 5015 Pam.shieldsweaifhe.ac.uk East Down Stephen Glass 028 44611502 stephen.glasswedifhe.ac.uk East Tyrone Tom Forsythe 028 8772 2323 tforsythewetcfhe.ac.uk Fermanagh Vincent Murphy 028 6634 2254 murphyvwfermanaghcoll.ac.uk Limavady Dr Anne Heaslett 028 77761001 draheaslettwlimavady.ac.uk Lisburn Josephine Kelly 028 9262 6773 jkellywliscol.ac.uk Newry Brian Doran 028 3025 9655 doranbwnkifhe.ac.uk North Down Willie Maxwell 028 9127 6757 williemaxwellwndai.ac.uk North East Dr Catherine O’Mullan 028 2566 4281 comullanwnei.ac.uk North West Marion Johnston 028 7127 6109 marion.johnstonwnwi.ac.uk Omagh Leo Murphy 028 8225 5215 leo.murphywomagh.ac.uk Upper Bann John Quinn 028 3839 7800 quinnjwubi.ac.uk
26. Schools should then complete a Stage 1 application form, in consultation with their partner college2. This form is available for download from the DE website at www.deni.gov.uk and should be completed electronically (see above table for contact e-mail addresses). Section 1 of this form collects basic information that will be common for each course being applied for, and need only be completed once. Section 2 should be completed for each cohort and course being applied for. If schools are collaborating to increase cohort size, they should jointly agree the contents of the form with their partner college and each participating school should complete and sign Section 4 of the Stage 1 application form. In order to help colleges meet the deadline of 28 February 2006, it would be helpful if schools and colleges could agree Stage 1 application forms by 14 February 2006. 27. Evaluation evidence has highlighted the value of a Service Level Agreement (SLA) in ensuring a common understanding of what is expected by all partners in any collaborative arrangement. An example of a SLA has been placed on the DE and DEL websites, and this may be downloaded and adapted as necessary to fit with local arrangements. Stage 1 applications should feature as an integral part of each school(s)/college Service Level Agreement. 28. FE colleges should collate all Stage 1 applications received from partner schools, and prepare a composite Stage 2 application using the form which is available for download from www.delni.gov.uk When the collated bid is complete, Stage 1 and Stage 2 forms should be e-mailed to sybil.campbellwdeni.gov.uk and sarah.armstrongwdelni.gov.uk by 28 February 2006. In all cases evidence is required that will allow for verification that the proposed provision has been signed oV by the relevant school(s) and partner college. Where electronic signatures are unavailable, the electronic application should be supplemented with a hard copy version. Signed hard copy versions should be retained by both school and college, and incorporated within the Service Level Agreement. 29. The two Departments will jointly assess each application received from the FE colleges. ELBs, ETI and LSDA will be asked to provide advice, but the final decision on allocations will be made by the two Departments.
2 Schools wishing to partner with an institution other than an FE College should contact DE for further advice. 3249649014 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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30. On the evidence of VEP in 2005–06, where bids of over £7.5 million were received against a budget of £4 million, schools and colleges cannot expect to have bids met in full. Schools and colleges will be advised of provisional allocations by 24 March 2006, which should allow suYcient time for planning purposes. 31. If schools, in consultation with their partner colleges, consider that the criteria have not been applied fairly, joint appeals may be submitted to the two Departments in writing. The closing date for appeals will be 7 April 2006. 32. Final allocations will be confirmed, and made available to colleges in two tranches, after numbers are confirmed with schools and colleges in September 2006.
Arrangements for 2007–08 33. VEP will continue in 2007–08, but it is too early to determine the level of funding that will be available, or any adaptations that may be made to the pilot. Further evaluation work will be carried out on the 2005–06 pilot, and it is intended that the 2006–07 pilot will also be subject to evaluation.
Written evidence from the Belfast Royal Academy I am writing to you in your capacity as Chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee to convey the deep concerns of many within the grammar school community in the Province about pending changes in our system of post-primary education. The Government has indicated that in the new session of Parliament it is determined to introduce legislation to give eVect to proposals outlined in the Burns Report of October 2001 and detailed in the report of the Costello Post-Primary Review Working group in January 2004. I do not propose to list the manifold objections which we have to the introduction of what in essence is a comprehensive system and the adverse eVect which this is likely to have on our educational standards but to bring to your attention two aspects which perhaps you might feel were appropriate matters for consideration by your committee. 1. By pressing ahead with this legislation the Government will be compounding the democratic deficit inherent in direct rule administration. Although opposed to the existing Transfer Test (the 11!) parents and teachers, by a majority of 2–1 in a survey of households commissioned by the Department of Education (Northern Ireland) in 2002, called for the retention of some form of academic selection—a preference consistently confirmed by subsequent opinion polls commissioned by the media. While Ministers in the Northern Ireland OYce have indicated previously that they would not impose conditions on fox hunting or on smoking in public places that ran counter to local opinion, surely the same principle should be applied and the will of the people respected in regard to education. I might add that many of us who believe that the issue should be determined by locally accountable politicians find the Government’s determination to press ahead all the more surprising as the prospect of a return to devolved government next year is now judged, in the light of recent political developments, by many commentators to be brighter than for some considerable time. 2. The method being proposed for the transfer of pupils to post-primary schools is parental choice based on a pupil profile, essentially subjective in character, compiled by primary teachers. I am advised by Dr Hugh Morrison of the School of Education at the Queen’s University, Belfast that as a guide for parents in choosing a school most suited to their children’s abilities the profile currently devised is fundamentally deficient and fails virtually every known international standard on validity and reliability. He is also of the opinion that the flaws are conceptual and are incapable of being rectified through modification. I enclose a copy of Dr Morrison’s paper, which also outlines an alternative methodology that has been tried and tested over four decades, for your consideration (not printed). W S F Young Headmaster 11 October 2005
Written evidence from Concerned Parents for Education I write to you as co-chairperson of CPE (Concerned Parents for Education), an organisation that represents parents from all parts of Northern Ireland and all sections of the community, to request that your committee consider the issue of reform of post-primary education in Northern Ireland. In 2002 the then Minister for Education, Mr McGuinness, conducted a massive household survey, and when he had received 100,000 out of a total of 200,551 responses he declared “those are the people that count”. Despite the fact that the people rejected the abolition of academic selection by a margin of two-to- one, and were supported in this decision by a majority of parents of secondary and grammar school pupils, teachers and elected representatives, their view has not counted. The 11! is to end in 2008, a decision which 3249641016 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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we support, but we are strongly opposed to the banning of academic selection from 2009, creating a situation in which all schools will be compelled to accept an all-ability, or comprehensive, intake. We are concerned that while the Government has accepted that the “bog standard”, one-size-fits-all comprehensive in Great Britain has not lived up to the original vision, a version of this system is to be imposed in Northern Ireland against the public will. We believe that since the re-introduction of Direct Rule successive ministers have been unduly influenced by a small group of individuals who have shielded them from the full weight of public opinion on this issue. It would appear also that they have been unaware of the superior performance of our system over the comprehensive model in terms of better examination results at GCSE and A level, and the fact that we send a much larger proportion of young people from working class or disadvantaged backgrounds to higher education than in Great Britain. It would be much appreciated if your committee were to consider investigating the proposed new arrangements for education, including the use of a pupil profile that cannot be amended to meet international standards of reliability and validity. Should you agree to do so, we would be delighted to provide you with a detailed account of our concerns and, if you wish, to provide representatives to appear before the committee. Eithne McCord Co-Chairperson 13 October 2005
Written evidence from St Louis Grammar School In common with my fellow Head Teachers in the grammar schools of Northern Ireland. I am very concerned at the possible changes which may flow from the current post primary review. There is broad consensus about the flaws in the current transfer process, but equally a strong majority view, expressed though recent public consultation, of the merits of matching pupils to a school appropriate to their aptitudes and needs. The proposed Entitlement Framework, which it is suggested may soon become a statutory requirement, will in addition precipitate rationalisation and reconfiguration of post-primary schools without regard to the consequences for existing centres of excellence, like the grammar schools in Northern Ireland. I trust that it is not inappropriate to suggest some comparison between N. Ireland and recent experience of school reform in England. At a time when the Labour Government is beginning to reintroduce partial selection to redress the negative social impact of neighbourhood comprehensives, it seems ill judged to put at risk the kind of quality schools which a whole raft of strategies in England are now trying to recreate. I hope that new admission criteria and pupil profile content allow the inclusion of robust assessment data. Both parents and receiving schools will depend on this to match the pupil to the best school for them. Thank you for your concern and interest in our diYculties and I look forward to any assistance that you may be able to give. F Cassidy Principal 14 October 2005
Written evidence from the Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations I write on behalf of my Association to express our profound concern with the way in which the Review of Post-Primary Education is taking place in Northern Ireland. Our Association was set up at the time of the Burns Review. We felt that the opportunity we had enjoyed to better ourselves through education was to be denied to following generations. We represent thousands of former pupils of Grammar Schools in both communities and we want to maintain a system where the best education is open to all and the only criterion for that opportunity is the ability to benefit from it. The former Minister for Education Barry Gardiner refused to meet with us, citing his busy schedule and the fact that he had consulted with other groups. I am enclosing a list of the people he met and you will see how slanted that consultation was (not printed). The current Minister, Angela Smith, has agreed to meet with us along with two other groups, Concerned Parents for Education and PACE. However, her recent speech to Education and Library Boards when she said she was going full speed ahead with the implementation of Costello, gives us little confidence that she is approaching our meeting with an open mind. I am also enclosing a brief summary of the main arguments we will be putting to the Minister (not printed). 3249641018 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Quite apart from our arguments against the desirability and practicality of the Costello proposals, we are deeply concerned that the Department of Education and the Minister are pressing ahead with plans even before announcing the results of the latest round of consultations. The majority of the population have repeatedly said that they want academic selection as part of our Post-Primary system, but the Department in their wisdom, have chosen to ignore this and to characterise any one who champions it as elitist, wedded to the past and an obstacle to progress. We believe that the Department has been secretive in its approach, devious in its use of language and statistics and is being driven by an ideological desire to destroy Grammar Schools. Here are some examples. We know that the proposed system is Comprehensive in nature but the Department refuses to use that title. We have characterised it as “the system that dare not speak its name”. The Department insist that one of the main reasons for the review is a falling birth rate and they have based their future projections on that continuing. We have pointed out to them that the birth rate has actually risen over the past four years and that we have a significant economic immigration from the EC, but they have not adjusted their figures. They have also resisted attempts at obtaining information under the Freedom of Information Act and had to be forced by the Commissioner to release the minutes of the Costello Review body. We have asked for the number of people who responded to the last consultation but they claim that they have not yet counted them. Given that the closing date for submission was the end of June, they are either incompetent or again, being secretive for no good reason. We believe that the whole process is worthy of the attention of the Select Committee and would welcome an opportunity to put our case to you. G Beamish Chairman 14 October 2005
Written evidence from Bangor Grammar School I am writing to you in your capacity as Chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee to express my deep concern at the present state of post-primary educational reform within the province. You will already know, of course, that the Costello Committee’s radical proposals have been accepted en bloc as government policy and that the Department of Education (Northern Ireland) is busy making arrangements for their implementation. My main anxiety is that this highly significant alteration to the structure and nature of post-primary education is going ahead quietly without any debate or discussion within any locally elected forum. The demise of the Local Assembly and the imposition of direct rule has placed an enormous responsibility upon the shoulders of the Minister, who holds education as only one of her many portfolios. The amount of time she has available to be in the province at all and therefore the amount of time she has to allocate specifically to education and to this issue, is extremely limited. The eVect of this is to allow departmental oYcials almost complete freedom to work on the reforms and to prepare legislation. To whom, I wonder, are they eVectively accountable? I say this in the knowledge that in the public consultation following the original Burns Report, a very significant majority of respondents indicated their support for the retention of the grammar schools and academic selection. This majority view has been confirmed since in a number of polls and surveys. The expressed wish of the majority was ignored in the Costello Report and in the subsequent consultation on criteria for admissions to post primary schools which entirely omitted any mention of academic selection. It is perverse that reforms of such magnitude should be in progress without elected representatives having the opportunity to debate them and that civil servants should appear to be so little accountable. It is frustrating that legislation on this issue will be debated at Westminster and passed by a government in whose election the Northern Irish people eVectively played no part. It is a bitter truth that, if passed, the legislation passing into statute the Costello proposals, will be directly contrary to the expressed view of the majority of the Northern Ireland electorate. S D Connolly Headmaster 14 October 2005
Written evidence from The Royal School Dungannon On behalf of our parents, pupils, Governors and former pupils, I write to express our dismay and frustration with the methodology, manner and content of the reforms. From the Burns Review through to the Costello Report, and now to the latest batch of guidance papers from the Department of Education. We are particularly incensed at the failure to properly consult with Northern Ireland people but having consulted to pay scant attention to the democratically expressed wishes of the people. We are appalled at 3249641020 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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the spin and misinformation which has been given to the many aspects of the so called statistical information and the rationale behind the proposed changes, the failure to properly cost the proposals and the lack of any proper trialing or piloting of these. There is just a total lack of confidence in both what is proposed and in the people who are entrusted with implementing the system.
The Grammar Schools represent 60,000 out of the 150,000 pupils in the Province and over 40% of the work force. It is our belief that this large group has been totally let down by the implementation groups including the Department of Education, CCEA, and CCLS. Whilst we are totally in favour of changing to a fair and more accurate form of selection, we believe that the Grammar Schools and the Secondary Schools thrive better in a selective system than in a neighbourhood comprehensive system with far greater social mobility and equality of opportunity being achievable under the current selective system.
Such has been the systematic misinformation and misapplication of proper principles which have come from those implementing the proposed changes that we implore the Northern Ireland select Committee to investigate thoroughly the short-comings which we have outlined. Above all we would ask that the democratic wishes of the people would be listened to and that no implementation of any system would be brought about by imposition against the will of large sections of the people, nor without proper costings and the guarantee of funds to implement any changes successfully. We would be happy to give evidence to you along with colleagues if your Committee should be able to take time to thoroughly investigate the current mismanagement and dangerous dismantling of the system. P D Hewitt Headmaster 14 October 2005
Written evidence from Foyle and Londonderry College
I am writing on behalf of the Governors and Parents of Foyle and Londonderry College, a Voluntary Grammar School in Northern Ireland, to appeal to you as Chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee of the House of Commons, to review the educational policies being pursued by the Government in the Province. In making this appeal, we feel that we have exhausted all other options to have the Government accept that its current policies for Education in Northern Ireland are being implemented, despite the clear wishes of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland. In the matter of our children’s education we feel that the Government has no right to over-rule the wishes of the people, expressed in overwhelming numbers in the Household Response Consultation. The massive response to this consultation shows the strength of feeling among the population at large, and it can be summarised in two main points. First, that the present Transfer Test is in need of reform, but secondly, and most clearly, that a system of selection should be retained at the age of 11 for those pupils entering post primary education.
By ignoring this clearly expressed opinion, successive Secretaries of State and those Ministers responsible for Education in the Province have embarked on a series of measures which will have far reaching consequences for an education system which is valued by the people of Northern Ireland, perhaps to greater extent that anywhere else in the United Kingdom. By refusing to accept any of the criticisms of their future arrangements from bodies such as the Governors of Foyle and Londonderry College, and our collective representations as part of the Governing Bodies’ Association, Ministers have generated a profound feeling of anger that a policy of comprehensivisation of schools is being pursued in Northern Ireland, while we have daily reports from elsewhere in the United Kingdom demonstrating that the Government is disenchanted with the outcome of such reform already implemented in England.
Northern Ireland enjoys examination results higher than those in England, staying on rates higher than those of English pupils and a greater level of access for disadvantaged pupils to Higher Education than elsewhere. While we would accept that the system is not perfect, and we would share an aspiration that the least well oV pupils should be encouraged to take advantage of the high quality education available to them, we do not accept that there is any potential for such improvements in the proposals being implemented at present.
We understand that legislation will be required to enforce these widely unpopular measures. Given that we have no outlet to express our views through locally elected representatives at present, it cannot be just that Ministers who are not answerable to the electorate of Northern Ireland should impose a system of education which will aVect generations of children, in the face of such opposition. It is an abuse of Parliamentary procedure if such measures are not debated on the floor of the House and given proper scrutiny, using the mechanisms available to members. The Government of the day must not be allowed to impose measures on one part of the United Kingdom that it could not implement elsewhere. It is clear that the high-handed behaviour of Ministers in the Northern Ireland OYce is prompted by the knowledge that 3249641021 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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they are not answerable at the ballot box for their actions. It is for this reason that we appeal to you, and your committee, to call ministers and oYcials to account before irretrievable damage is done to education in Northern Ireland. W J Magill Headmaster 14 October 2005
Written evidence from Collegiate Grammar School I am writing to you in your capacity as Chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee to convey my deep anxieties about pending changes in our system of post-primary education. These changes as detailed in the report of the Costello Post-Primary Review Working Group in January 2004 represent major changes for our education system in Northern Ireland. As such they will have a significant and I believe highly detrimental impact on the educational landscape for present and future generations of our young people. However my prime reason for writing to you is not to outline these concerns in detail but rather to take the opportunity to bring before you and your Committee the deep sense of unease I share with many in the educational and wider community about the way in which these changes are being implemented. As I write, documents requiring preparation for the implementation of these changes are sitting on my desk demanding my attention. These documents include a clearly outlined time frame and we, as a school community, are being asked to engage our will and energies in their outworking. Yet to date there has been no attempt to consult with the educational community and the wider public on these proposals as a whole, only on the new transfer arrangements the results of which consultation we are still awaiting. It is also worth noting that these proposals for the new transfer arrangements in Costello took no cognisance of the results of the household survey commissioned by the Department of Education in 2002 in which parents and teachers by a majority of 2–1 called for the retention of some form of academic selection. I am left therefore with a profound sense of dissatisfaction both at the apparent disregard for the will of the very people who will be aVected by these far-reaching changes and the unseemly haste with which the Government wishes to impose them on the educational and wider community. It is also most disconcerting that there has been no forum in which open and honest debate about the merits or demerits of these proposals could take place. Now that the prospect of a return to devolved government is more hopeful I am bemused at the Government’s haste to press on with this legislation when there is a real prospect that these crucial changes could be properly debated at the heart of the community who will be aVected by them. I indicated at the outset that I do not wish to outline in detail my objections to the Costello proposals: however as Principal of a girls’ grammar school whose pupils come from a diversity of social backgrounds across a widespread rural hinterland as well as from within the town boundary I highlight one major issue which will crucially aVect the young people in the local area if the proposed admission arrangements stand. Under these new arrangements where geographical proximity is the crucial factor in admissions decisions girls who live at a distance from the school, irregardless of their educational needs, will inevitably be denied access to a grammar school education. Equality of opportunity and access and a child centred education, the proposed aims of this new system, ring hollow in the ears of their parents and I share in their deep misgivings. In voicing these concerns I do not wish to imply that there is no need for change in our educational system. I do however believe that the process which is currently sweeping us along in its relentless wake is an inherently flawed one and one which ignores the need to engage hearts and minds, a crucial factor in the management of any worthwhile change. I cannot believe that this is in the interests of the young people whom we serve. E Armstrong Principal 17 October 2005
Written evidence from Down High School Throughout the Troubles in Northern Ireland one of the few bright spots in an otherwise gloomy environment was the continuing ability of the education system to sustain some semblance of normality, retain the confidence of all and continue to produce academic results that out performed anywhere in the United Kingdom. The grammar school system has given much to this Province. Monsignor Denis Faul stated that without the grammar school system there would be no catholic middle class in Northern Ireland. I believe its influence went wider and many working class children from every background gained opportunity based on ability not resources. Social mobility continues to be enhanced by the same system 3249641023 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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and the 940 pupils in this school in a country area reflect all social classes and indeed creeds. Recent research by the LSE indicated that social mobility was greater in England during the grammar school era than at present with the comprehensive system. The household survey of 2002 initiated by Mr McGuinness showed that two-thirds of the respondents favoured the retention of academic selection and this was reinforced recently when the Belfast Telegraph commissioned a similar survey. It might then seem surprising therefore that government is intent on imposing a new education system based on the proposals of Burns Report and the Costello Report that will introduce comprehensive education into Northern Ireland. It would be frustrating enough if it was local politicians who decided to follow this policy but to the surprise of many it is the Ministers appointed from England who are intent on the introduction of this untried, untested and unpriced system contrary to the stated wishes of the people. Education was one of the responsibilities devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly when it was in operation and it seems appropriate that such an issue should be decided by local politicians not imposed by those with no connection politically or socially. In the prevailing climate it is likely that an Assembly will be reconstituted in the relatively near future and so I would suggest that any legislation regarding education in Northern Ireland should be delayed until then. With the majority of the population supportive of selection and of grammar schools there is certainly no clamour for change in the community at large. We have few people in Northern Ireland to whom we can correspond in an eVort to influence how we are governed. As chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee I hope that the inappropriate interference of the present Government into the education system of Northern Ireland can be delayed to enable local people to address and consider how they want their children educated. Our system is not perfect but needs evolution not revolution. J W Ferris Headmaster 17 October 2005
Written evidence from Concerned Parents for Education, Parental Alliance for Choice in Education and Confederation of Grammar Schools’ Former Pupils’ Associations Together these three organisations represent thousands of people across all communities and parts of Northern Ireland and PACE is also a nationally based organisation. The Associations only interest is the education of our children. We have no jobs, schools or special interests to protect and therefore represent a more balanced view than teachers, administrators, churches, governors, or educational organisations. We believe that every child must have an equal opportunity to achieve their maximum potential in education and that suYcient paths are available for them so to do.
What are we asking the Minister to do? To reconsider the basic concepts of the Costello Report. In particular to give academic selection its rightful place in the process.
What are our reasons? We believe the Costello proposals are: Undemocratic Discriminatory Potentially illegal Unworkable Do not deliver what they promise
Above all they were based on an outdated ideology It is clear that rather than open exploration Costello was working to a set outcome based on ideology which, in its Utopian dream, would destroy Grammar Schools. The comprehensive experiment has been exposed as a failure. England, right down to your own constituency is running away from it. The proposed amalgamation of your old school and its underachieving neighbour is symptomatic of the ills of the Comprehensive system. The only things that are keeping it going are ideology and intellectual dishonesty. 3249641024 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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It is clear that a decision was taken that given the strain imposed by the 11! there was no alternative to it. No diligence was shown in looking for alternatives. We can find little evidence of any thorough search in the Costello minutes. Statistics have been misrepresented and used to mislead. For example despite the increase in the birth rate in the last four years and the influx of economic migrants from the EU the Department has not adjusted its figures and continues to claim that the birth rate is going down. The claim that there is a great diVerence between our best performers and our worst is another example of how statistics are manipulated. In any normal distribution there will be a wide diVerence between the extremes provided performance is not skewed. If every child were achieving its potential we would expect the distribution to be normal with a small percentage of very high and a small percentage of very low. If our top performers are doing better than others then of course there will be a bigger gap here than there is in places were top performers do less well. Put another way, 5% of children in England leave with no qualification, 4% here leave with no qualification. Significantly in places like Mexico where educational opportunities are very limited there is a very small gap between top and bottom. Does this mean we should have a Mexican educational system?
Why are they undemocratic? Against the will of the majority as expressed in surveys, consultations and the ballot box. Would never be supported by a local Assembly. Produced by an unrepresentative Committee.
Who do they discriminate against? It aVords NI fewer rights than England where people can vote locally on selection. It discriminates in favour of those who choose faith based, language based or integrated education, but against those who want academic selection. Against those who will have made the choice in 2007. Against Voluntary Grammar Schools. Against rural communities. Potentially against existing Secondary Schools by squeezing them between the Colleges of Further Education and the Grammar Schools.
Potentially Illegal We have already indicated its potential for a challenge under Section 75 and we have other legal challenges in the pipeline.
Unworkable Outside single site schools the entitlement framework is impractical, expensive and unlikely to succeed. When one school in Belfast can run up a deficit of £800,000 trying to run a twin site school what will be the costs of several schools and FE colleges trying to co-operate. We believe the Department already has a report from an independent body questioning the practicality of the 24–27 concept. We have serious concerns about pastoral care, safety, transport and linking of curriculum. We would also like to know how schools are expected to co-ordinate several timetables when it is hard enough managing a single one.
Doesn’t Deliver What it Promises
Social justice and mobility LSE Research shows England less socially mobile now than before Comprehensive Education and less than other major Western countries. ESRC research shows comprehensive schools powerfully reinforce family and class prejudices. Such a risk is the last thing we need in Northern Ireland. “We have replaced an education system which selected on ability with one that is socially selective” Sir Peter Lampi, Sutton Trust 3249641024 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Equal Opportunity Admissions criteria will decrease opportunities and create anomalies. “Selection by estate agent” “being able to aVord a house in the right area determines access to the best schools”. Ruth Kelly, Labour Conference 2005
Informed Parental choice This is the biggest deception of all. The proposed pupil profiles are supposed to give expert guidance as to the best learning path for each child. In fact Pupil Profiles are subjective, unreliable, subject to undue influence and a nightmare for teachers. Their potential reliability is less than chance and doesn’t compare with objective tests. We know you already have a paper on Computer Adaptive Testing, which we passed to the GBA and we strongly support that approach. Choice implies variety, however the decision to deny schools the use of academic selection narrows the variety of choice and the entitlement framework means all schools are similar therefore there is no real choice. When the aVects of the proposed admissions criteria are added, this choice is further narrowed and the ability to choose will be economically determined. In the absence of real assessment parents will do what they think is best for them especially as the arrangements allow them to ignore the procedure entirely and proceed without taking any advice. Choice implies a willing seller, but receiving schools have no choice and cannot express their unwillingness to allow a child to start on an unsuitable learning path.
In Summary We have a diverse, flexible system that is working despite a few real and many imagined or manufactured problems. We are being forced to accept a system based on a proven failure, which is undemocratic, discriminatory, potentially illegal, impractical, and expensive and will not deliver what it promises. The Maintained Sector, the Integrated movement and the Irish language schools have expressed their wish to try this experiment at public expense, is it unreasonable for the majority of people who want academic selection to be allowed to continue to provide another choice to parents. 24 November 2005
Written evidence from Mr Ian S Corry, Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon The purpose of this letter is to make a brief submission to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee, post primary school debate. I am a parent of three children aged 10, 8 and 6. I am a member of the board of governors of the RBAI grammar school. I am a former pupil of the school having attended a North Belfast primary school and RBAI in the late 60s/early 70s. My family background would not have allowed access to the potential fees associated with private education. To allow children of modest or low family income to continue to benefit from a state subsidised academic education system, the Northern Ireland grammar schools should be allowed to continue. For this to be possible, academic selection cannot be abolished. I would like the committee to take note of the following two points which are central to all more detailed deliberations on the subject of post primary education selection in Northern Ireland. 1. The majority of the Northern Ireland public want the grammar schools and therefore academic selection to continue. (They recognise that the current 11-plus exam should end but should be replaced with other academic selection methods.) 2. The decision on the fate of academic selection and therefore the grammar schools should be taken by the Northern Ireland Assembly if and when it is re-established. To allow the grammar schools to decline would be to dismantle an education system with a fine record. To allow this decision to be taken by ministers of a party with no electoral organisation or mandate within Northern Ireland would be to allow dictatorship of a type which is profoundly anti-democratic. I would appeal to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee to use its influence to delay this undemocratic process pending a full debate and ultimate resolution by the local political representatives within the local Assembly. 25 November 2005 3249641026 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence from The Down Area Parents’ Group
POST-PRIMARY REFORM The Down Area Parents’ Group represents parents from both sides of the community, who have children in nursery, primary and secondary education. While we support the abolition of the 11!, we are opposed to the current proposals for post-primary reform. These proposals ignore the expressed wish of the great majority of people in Northern Ireland, as consistently expressed in the Household Consultation and opinion polls, to retain some form of academic selection as the basis of transfer from primary to post- primary education. We do not wish to have an educational process that has not been approved by the people of Northern Ireland, through their representatives, foisted on us. We wish to ensure that the rural community in Northern Ireland have the same right to a quality education and parental choice, which they will not have if the Costello proposals are implemented. Proximity to good schools will discriminate against those living in the countryside.
Executive Summary
1. The proposed changes are not workable The changes are being imposed upon the people of Northern Ireland without being discussed by the representatives of the people of Northern Ireland and with many unresolved problems which will render them unworkable.
2. Pupil entitlement and movement between schools The 24/27 subject choice demanded by Costello can only be met if schools and FE Colleges collaborate. This will cause logistical problems of transport and timetabling, creating potential dangers of travelling, pastoral care and discipline.
3. Administrative layers The new layers of administration required to keep this system working are unnecessary, expensive and cumbersome. Unfortunately, many of them are already putatively in place.
4. Alternative transfer arrangements Costello believes that selection by ability should not happen at any stage of a child’s education; all schools will have an all-ability intake. The Department of Education has not commissioned any research to investigate alternative means of placing children in schools where their abilities will best match the specialism the school has to oVer.
5. Oversubscription and the myth of parental choice The Costello Report promises parental choice based on informed election. This cannot happen when schools are over-subscribed and the deciding criterion is likely to be proximity to the school, irrespective of the suitability of the child to the specialism the school has to oVer.
6. Profiles Pupil Profiles currently being constructed cannot be objective; they will be written by class and head teachers, who will be put under undue pressure to write favourable reports. A much more objective alternative has been ignored by the Department of Education.
7. The new curriculum The proposed new curriculum will favour middle class children whose parents have both social and fiscal capital to invest in the “child centred” project work and case studies that will be central to the new curriculum. 3249641026 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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8. Cost There has been no public audit of cost made available.
9. Lack of democratic approval There has been overwhelming public support demonstrated in several Consultations and opinion polls for the principle of selection. The current proposals have never been discussed by the representatives of the people of Northern Ireland.
Why should the Order-in-Council be delayed?
1. The proposed changes are not workable 1.1 The debate on post-primary reform is now entering its fifth year; it has challenged and, in some cases, changed the status quo in post-primary education in Northern Ireland. It is widely acknowledged that the current 11! Transfer Test is not fit for the purpose and should be scrapped. 1.2 The debate has moved on considerably since it was first aired in the Assembly, but because devolution has not yet been re-established, the local representatives have not had a chance to re-engage with the more recent proposals. 1.3 Moreover the proposed changes would result in a radical shift in the provision of education in Northern Ireland, destroying a system of educational diversity and giving us also an untried and revolutionary curriculum, based on progressivism at its worst. 1.4 The current timetabling of a Draft Order in Council is untimely because the various ramifications of the proposals have not been properly thought through and there are areas which need a great deal more consultation and time spent on them before legislation of such magnitude is introduced into Northern Ireland. 1.5 If the proposals in the Draft Order in Council are based on the Costello Report (as Peter Hain indicated at the Labour Party Conference) they are unworkable as they stand for several reasons: — Pupil entitlement and movement between schools. — Administrative layers. — Alternative transfer arrangements. — Oversubscription and the myth of parental choice. — Profiles. — Curriculum. — Cost. — Lack of democratic approval.
2. Pupil entitlement and movement between schools 2.1 The current proposal for Pupil Entitlement is for 24 subjects to be oVered at GCSE and 27 subjects to be oVered at A Level, (one third of which must be vocational and one third academic). 2.2 There are few schools in Northern Ireland (even the 1,400! pupil size) that could oVer the Pupil Entitlement as it stands. The Entitlement could only be met by schools collaborating with other neighbouring schools or Colleges of Further Education. 2.3 For some schools, which share adjacent campuses (usually a grammar school and a secondary school, and also usually Catholic) such movement between schools would be relatively simple as the geographic distance would be negligible and the physical dangers of crossing roads, dealing with traYc etc would be minimised. The common timetabling would also be easier to organise. 2.4 For most schools, however, the enforced collaboration would present problems on a very large scale: (i) Physical dangers of moving between schools, involving transportation, crossing roads (at a time when “lollipop men” are being made redundant due to lack of funding) would be an issue of concern to parents and teachers alike. (ii) Teaching time lost in moving between schools. Even city/town schools will lose teaching time due to pupils getting in and out of buses, traYc to be encountered, pupils getting to class in an unfamiliar school/college. Country schools will lose even more teaching time in the transportation of pupils. (iii) The suggestion that distance or “e” learning could replace the classroom teacher and eliminate much of this movement is unrealistic in the short term (insuYcient conferencing facilities in all post-primary schools) even if its desirability were not being questioned by those who do not see how large numbers of pupils can be monitored during class conferencing. 3249641026 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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(iv) It would be impossible for schools to have their own timetable. All schools in a catchment area would have to have a common timetable to allow for the transfer of pupils to other schools for classes. This would be a logistical nightmare. (v) Discipline and pastoral care of pupils as they transfer from one school to another and the less formal atmosphere of the Colleges of Education will create problems. Issues such as intimidation, bullying and safety should be foremost for consideration, but no mention is made of them in the Costello Report. (vi) Schools will need to supervise the movement of children for safety and insurance purposes. This presupposes that schools can aVord to employ a member of staV to accompany pupils rather than teach. In a climate of savage financial cut-backs for grammar schools and some secondary schools, this is an impossible request. Pupils will end up travelling unaccompanied. (vii) The cost of the transport between schools has to be considered. Not every school has a minibus or a school bus that can be used to transport children. Will the Education & Library Boards be able to provide the additional transport on a daily basis between schools? This is very unlikely resource wise and highly improbable cost wise. (viii) Questions arise from the sectarian nature of education in Northern Ireland. There is no guarantee that Catholic schools would be happy sending their pupils to non-catholic schools for classes or vice-versa. If the nearest school is of a diVerent religion, it could mean sending the children a considerable distance to the nearest “compatible school” or forcing them to attend a school of a diVerent nature. (ix) Lessons should be learned from the early years of the implementation of comprehensive education in Britain. Split-site comprehensives were singularly unsuccessful; the smaller school was closed down and the bigger school was expanded or a single new campus school was created.
3. Administrative layers 3.1 The Costello proposals outline new layers of administration for the new system which will oversee the “voluntary” collaboration between schools. These layers are an additional, expensive and unnecessary level of bureaucracy. 3.2 To this existing over-governance the Costello report has proposed adding additional layers (indeed many are already in existence in shadowy form). 3.3 The necessary consequence of the movement between schools envisaged could not possibly be met by simple voluntary collaboration between schools. The timetabling alone would have to be done a large scale. 3.4 The claim in the Costello Report that schools would enjoy their own identity and ethos is therefore false; this move to collectivity would run directly counter to the educational diversity being proposed in the new White Paper for Education in England and Wales.
4. Alternative transfer arrangements 4.1 The oYcial position as cited in the Costello Report is that selection by ability should have no part whatsoever in the transfer of a child from primary to post-primary education or at any stage in a child’s school career. 4.2 The alternative suggested is that children and their parents will choose the post-primary school, based on the child’s interest and the evidence of the Pupil Profile available from the primary school. 4.3 The Costello Report further suggests that the child and parents should have interviews with the primary and post-primary Heads of any schools the child might be interested in attending to ascertain the best school for their child’s abilities and interests. 4.4 However, there is nothing mandatory about this consultation and on paper it would be possible for parents to simply ignore any advice given to them or to not even attend any interviews or take any advice from primary or post-primary Heads. 4.5 Even if the parents were to approach the Heads of the post-primary schools the actual process of interviewing would be impossible to fit into the time schedule of any Head. He or she would be faced with interviewing several hundred applicants (depending on the size of the school) and giving advice based on a pupil profile which they may not have seen prior to the actual interview. 4.6 This point of view has been challenged. The Household Consultation showed 64% of the public favoured the retention of selection as a means of Transfer, while only 57% favoured the ending of the 11!. 3249641026 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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4.7 Various alternatives to the apparent unlimited parental choice have been suggested, but have been summarily dismissed. In fact the Costello Report made a reference to the impracticability of using any other form of selection as part of the Transfer process. 4.8 Research or evidence that would have shown why it would be educationally unsound to have some form of selection has not been forthcoming from the Department.
5. Oversubscription and the myth of parental choice 5.1 The current educational thinking is that parents and children should have the choice as to which post- primary school their child attends; the nub of the argument about selection is that the system selects the child for the school, not the other way round. 5.2 However, the situation in Northern Ireland is markedly diVerent from that of the rest of the United Kingdom. 5.3 In areas of the United Kingdom where grammar schools exist, parental choice is allowed to be exercised (through a local ballot) in deciding whether or not the school remains a selective grammar school. 5.4 This choice is being denied to the parents of Northern Ireland, who have expressed their preference for the retention of selection many times over in Consultations, Opinion Polls and letters in the local press. 5.5 The choice that is being oVered to parents in Northern Ireland is deceptive. On the one hand they are being encouraged to be responsible and take into account the talents and aptitudes of their child, as demonstrated in the proposed Pupil Profile, to decide on the kind of school their child would most enjoy and benefit from. 5.6 On the other, the lack of any directive that parents must take advice and seek interviews with primary and post-primary Heads, means that a parent may simply opt to send their child to the nearest or best (in their perception) school, without the child necessarily having the requisite talents and abilities to cope with the “specialist” kind of curriculum it might oVer. 5.7 In the event of that school being oversubscribed, how will the school diVerentiate between the children who will or will not get places? Invariably the decision, after the obvious criteria of siblings at the school, will be distance from the school. This means that a child who is closer, but not necessarily equipped with the kind of talents/aptitudes will get a place ahead of a child who may be more suited to the curriculum on oVer, but who lives further afield. 5.8 Middle class parents will seek to move houses into the catchment area of what is perceived to be the “better” schools, which will also inevitably be the best secondary and grammar schools. It will leave the children from the inner cities and the rural areas with little choice; the current selection by ability (flawed as it is) will be replaced by selection by mortgage. 5.9 In Northern Ireland there has been continued intergenerational social mobility over the last 30 years, despite the political unrest and social problems. This contrasts starkly with the rest of the United Kingdom where, with the removal of selection in most parts of the United Kingdom, social mobility seems to have declined quite markedly.
6. Profiles 6.1 Taking Costello at its most optimistic, parents will be basing their decision on where to send their child for post-primary education largely on the evidence in the proposed Pupil Profile. The current proposals for this Pupil Profile are totally unfit for the purpose. 6.2 The Pupil Profile has little chance of being objective when it is drawn up by a succession of classroom teachers, of varying ages and experience, with no opportunity to compare the child’s performance with other children of a similar age. 6.3 This will lend itself to undue pressure being placed on primary school teachers for a favourable report on a child. This has been adequately demonstrated in the few years when the 11! was dropped as a means of Transfer and pupil placement in post-primary education was made by the Head’s recommendation. 6.4 The Pupil Profile, if correctly done, will involve the primary school teacher in a considerable amount of record keeping and paperwork. The more conscientious teachers will meet the high standards, but others will not and some children will have a less than adequate mirror of their abilities and aptitudes. 6.5 Of greatest concern has to be the lack of objectivity in determining a child’s capacity for certain skills, particularly the academic. Parents will want to know if their child has the ability to cope with the demands of a rigorous academic curriculum; it is both unfair and unkind to have a Profile which cannot realistically give an answer. 6.6 Middle class parents will be able to manipulate the Pupil Profile with all the extra classes, tuition in languages, music, ballet etc that money can buy. Working class children may not have parents with the money to aVord these extras or the inclination/understanding to provide such extra-curricular activities. 3249641026 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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6.7 Alternative proposals have been made by Dr Hugh Morrison of Queens University Belfast for a computer generated Pupil Profile that actively works with a child’s current abilities and presents tasks unique to him/her that allows the child to develop at his/her own level. 6.8 This is a much more reliable indicator of how well a child is performing in relation to other children of his/her age group and is a much better guide as to what kind of post-primary school would be best suited to the talents/aptitudes thus displayed. The Department of Education has yet to acknowledge, never mind respond to this alternative.
7. The new curriculum 7.1 Post-primary reform has to be seen in the context of a radical shake-up in the curriculum being proposed in Northern Ireland by CCEA, based on the discredited “scientific rationale” model. It is an untried and revolutionary curriculum, representing progressivism at its very worst. 7.2 The proposed new curriculum, based as it is on project work and pupil self assessment, favours children from middle class backgrounds who will have parental knowledge and support, as well as the resources to do well. Working class children, who are much less likely to have the resources or the support, will be severely disadvantaged, as can be seen from the failed eVorts to apply this style of curriculum in the USA. 7.3 The end of selective/academically specialist schools is essential if this curriculum is to work and the Costello proposals are an essential ingredient in imposing this curriculum by the back door on an unsuspecting teaching force and public.
8. Cost 8.1 There has been no audit of cost for this exercise made public.
9. Lack of democratic approval 9.1 Public support for the retention of selection has not wavered, despite the best eVorts of the PR machinery of a government department to persuade parents of the benefits of the Costello proposals. 9.2 The support from the public is both across class and religious boundaries. It is not a sectarian issue on the ground, even though it may appear to be from the vested interests that are arguing in the public, political and educational domains. Annika Nestius-Brown Chair 25 November 2005
Written evidence (dated 29 November 2005) from Down Area Parents’ Group One of the parents of Down Area Parent Group (who have submitted evidence to the Committee), attended the public hearing of the Northern Ireland Select AVairs Committee in Stormont on the morning of the 28 November 2005. After discussions about the issues raised we as parents would like to draw the Committee’s attention to a number of points made in this morning session which we felt required further explanation from the parties concerned. Mr Young’s team — The Pupil Profile that was being proposed has been working successfully in the United States and elsewhere over the last 40 years but the impression created was that Dr Morrison had developed this recently. It has been tried and tested, unlike the CCEA Profile which was only actually released a week ago, has only been piloted with a few schools and, we believe, has not had good reviews from those doing the piloting. — The rural schools will lose badly from any move to destroy the grammar schools (which is what this proposal would inevitably result in). Our member was surprised the committee did not challenge the Department of Education’s constant assertion (also contained in the Costello Report) that the ethos of grammar schools will not change. This is patently nonsense and is either an outright lie or else the administrators fail to understand what the ethos of a school actually means. — Nothing was said about the fact that the whole exercise has already cost a phenomenal amount, including an expensive Household Survey, commissioned by the Minister which has been sidelined because it did not give the answers he was expecting on selection. We very much agree with Mr 3249641027 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Young when he spoke of “cherry picking”. There are no projected costs for the rest of the post- primary reform which surely must also be quite considerable, as teacher training, transport costs of bussing between schools to provide the 24/27 subjects etc. Where is this money to come from? — Either we live in a democracy—or we live in a totalitarian state, where the will of the people on an issue is consistently ignored in favour of an ideological rectitude such as the ones here held by a very small, but influential unelected and unaccountable cabal of a university professor, senior civil servants in the Department of Education and a few “insider” educational interest groups. This cabal seems to be driven by either ideological fervour or a wish to create their own “empires”. At the moment, the latter seems the case. CCMS — The assertion, after much wriggling, that 10% of St Catherine’s intake is protestant cannot possibly be true for two reasons: it is extremely unlikely in Co Armagh where Protestantism is particularly defensive and also the overall figures in Catholic schools showing the percentage of protestant pupils is less than 6% overall. Our member found it disturbing that the Headmistress should have been so evasive and wonder why she wanted to be less than honest. — The rhetoric of education for the 21st century and of the link between education/economy does not just belong with the CCMS view of the system. Surely the economy needs the well educated physicist and engineers as well? — Grammar Schools need to be able to take children who can keep up with the level and pace of work required for university entrance. How can ensuring parents have information over a number of years giving an accurate view of the child’s ability to cope with literacy and numeracy work be possibly construed as less than diagnostic as CCMS implied? If the current Profile is based on the new assessment objectives of written comment, not grades or marks, it will not be easy for all parents to decide whether their child has the ability and aptitude for the academic rigour of a grammar school. — The message from CCMS was very contradictory on grammar schools. They stated that they had nothing against them; that they weren’t in the business of closing down schools and yet they described them as unfit for the education system of the 21st century. This seems incredible. Many of our grammar schools have been around for at least a century, in some cases two, three or four centuries. How could they survive if they weren’t capable of adjusting to the demands of society and of each successive generation? — The figures quoted by CCMS on educational performance in PISA on the face of it are correct; there is a high diVerential. That is because the top is so good while those at the bottom are still better placed than many other countries in the PISA survey. — We also have reservations about the contention that population figures will drop as dramatically as CCMS stated. There have been several recent articles and letters in the local papers, suggesting that the Department’s figures in Costello are not right and that the new figures are not generally being released to the public to correct the misapprehension. — We agree that the child in Co Fermanagh should have the same choices as the child in Belfast; however, cutting the child’s chance to travel to a local grammar school because of post-code selection, is hardly enhancing them in the first place. — The 24/27 menu will only be obtainable with considerable upheaval between schools. Unlike St Catherine’s it will not be one way traYc, and the logistics of this are positively staggering. At best the concept is badly thought out, at worst it hasn’t even been considered by those who have designed it as to what the consequences will be and the possible solutions (all properly costed) presented. It is for these reasons, that we think it is premature of the Department to try to “trojan horse” a Draft Order-in-Council over the Christmas holidays, especially when they knew the Select Committee was going to look at evidence on the issue. Surely there are too many imponderables for this to proceed. We need more time to hammer out issues such as costing and the best kind of Pupil Profile to make our new system work. It is much too important an issue to simply ram home; meaningful dialogue between the sides (and not a conversation of the deaf or selected groups getting favourable “insider” status) is necessary to create a good education system in Northern Ireland for the 21st century that will build on our existing strengths, and tackle the areas where we have weaknesses. Annika Nestius-Brown 29 November 2005 3249641028 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence from Dr and Mrs I G Snounou
Post Primary Education in Northern Ireland We are writing to register our objection to the New Admission Arrangements for Post-Primary Schools and do not wish to see the end of academic selection at Transfer. Our objection is based on the following grounds: — In this Age of Globalisation, the future success of our country can only be achieved by stretching our children’s abilities to the limit. We are competing in a global market. We in Northern Ireland have to prepare our children to compete against the best in the world and we have been doing so, extremely well for a very long time. So why destroy a system that works? — Recent statistics show quite clearly that, for all its faults, the current system in Northern Ireland allows more pupils from working class and disadvantaged homes to go to university and the academic performance of our pupils at GCSE and A Level is better than those in Great Britain. — The lack of Scientists and Engineers hinders the future progress of our country. We must encourage those schools with academic ethos (academic selection) to produce the Scientists and Engineers of the future, if our way of life is to be protected. — Just as assessing players’ sporting ability to join Manchester United to compete against other international teams is vital to their success; so is assessing children’s academic ability when joining an academic school or on their vocational ability when joining a vocational school. — We need to look at improving our vocational education for those children who are so inclined and providing them with better opportunities. — We should enhance the current system to stretch the most able students while boosting the vocational training to end the snobbery that values it as a second class education. — We need to look at ways to help deprived families to help their children to have better self-esteem and to encourage them to work harder to brake the poverty cycle. — The best results can only be achieved by placing each group of children in a school suited to their needs, with the aim of helping them to achieve their full potential. Mixing children with diVerent academic abilities will only make the least able feel inferior and resentful whilst the most able may become bored or disruptive in the class room. The government is spending a huge amount of tax payer’s money on specialist schools, with the aim of creating new “successful schools”. Northern Ireland has a substantial number of “very successful schools”. It makes sense to allow these schools to continue their success uninterrupted. They provide a shining example to other schools. Changes are only needed in schools which are not producing good results. — Parents’ right of choice implies choice between schools with diVerent ethos (academic, vocational, religious etc). It also implies choice between schools that use academic selection and those which do not. There is no choice if all schools are made to be the same. — The “Investors In People” scheme, run by government at a huge cost, emphasisesthe importance of ownership (where every employee is made to feel and act as an integral part of the organisation). Any changes to the educational system carried without the full support of teachers and heads will result in the staV loosing any sense of ownership, and lead to the failure of the school to achieve its objectives. As you can see from the above points, we fundamentally disagree with the New Admission Arrangements for Post-Primary Schools and do not wish to see the end of academic selection at Transfer. The ending of academic selection will destroy the grammar schools as centres of academic excellence as they will inevitably decline into neighbourhood comprehensives. It is undemocratic of a Government to so flagrantly ignore the wishes of parents, teachers and the public on this issue as they were so clearly expressed in the Household Survey and subsequent similar surveys. Northern Ireland’s education system, based on a mixed pattern of secondary schools, was a shining light throughout the troubles; it is still admired throughout the world. The best of it should be maintained and special attention given to areas of weakness, the skills gap and primary schools in deprived areas. We believe that any decision about education in Northern Ireland should be left to a local assembly and not pushed through on Order in Council in Westminster against the will of the people. We believe that the positive alternative proposals based on Computerised Adaptive Testing match the will of the people as expressed in the Province-wide Household Survey. We appeal to you to intervene personally and to delay the process pending the return of the local assembly. 29 November 2005 3249641029 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence from Rainey Endowed School I want to express my gratitude to you and members of the Select Committee for giving consideration to post-primary education in Northern Ireland. I listened with interest on Monday at the variety of presentations and enjoyed speaking with some members of Belfast Royal Academy during lunch. I attach a document (annex) outlining Rainey Endowed’s reservations over the changes proposed for post-primary education, many of which are laudable in their intention. The actual outcomes of the changes may well not meet their original design. In summary we would argue the Department of Education is attempting too much change all at once. The extent of change means that costs cannot accurately be predicted nor controlled. Ultimately, Northern Ireland has a system of education that is working well but the perception of an outsider could be that it is in total crisis and needs a radical overhaul. This is not so. Some members of the Committee asked questions to the grammar school lobby I would like to pass comment upon: (i) Regarding religious integration and socio-economic mix—“How long shall it take the grammar schools to get this right?” I would draw the Committee’s attention to both or historical foundation and our current enrolment. Founded in 1713 through a will bequeathing land and money, Hugh Rainey, at the time of the Penal Laws in Ireland, established a school on the principle that it should be “Open to all who would come after me”. Since 1713 Rainey Endowed has been a place of education for South Derry Protestants, Roman Catholics, Anglicans and other ethnic groups have been pupils here. Past pupils have gone on from our school to be ministers and priests, unionist and nationalist politicians. In 1896 the Anglican Archbishop of Armagh decided Rainey Endowed should be an Anglican Church School. The Presbyterian Minister of Magherafelt (our town) and the Roman Catholic Parish Priest successfully argued in the Dublin High Court that to become a church school as proposed was contrary to the founding principle of the school. Thus since 1896 we have a written constitution declaring that we are “open to all”. Currently, 40% of our pupils are from the Roman Catholic tradition, 58% from the Protestant tradition and 2% from other (Muslin, Hindu & Bahi). Our socio-economic background is also mixed. Consequently I would take issue with the comment from the committee member. Rainey Endowed does have it correct. The danger of the post-code selection being proposed is that this mix will be under threat. The Middle Classes should not be able to buy their way into school. I am already aware of several families moving house solely to position themselves close to the school. (ii) “The importance of opportunity” Grammar schools such as Rainey Endowed have provided opportunity to young people for generations. I find the hypocrisy of the ideologues promoting the removal of selection hard to deal with. CCMS told the committee that selection was a “structural impediment” yet all of the members of that presentation sent their children to grammar schools, including the school principal who described her all girl non-selective school out performing the local co-educational grammar. (I also have issue with her describing a 10% protestant catholic mix—that was an immense exaggeration 1% would be doubtful). Grammar schools and non-grammar alike should be employed in the Post-Primary arrangements. Both should give opportunity for all our children. R M Robinson Headmaster 2 December 2005
Annex
RESERVATIONS OVER PROPOSED EDUCATIONAL CHANGES I and my Governors are grateful for the opportunity to be heard before the Committee. I make several points with regard to the educational changes confronting all schools in Northern Ireland, particularly those of the post-primary sector. (i) Change is necessary and demonstrates a healthy and living entity, thoughtful of the best interests of all involved. (ii) Rainey Endowed School would however express reservation at the sheer volume and extent of change being brought forward. The change of the administration of the education system from five Education and Library Boards and the Catholic Council for Maintained Schools into one education authority is a dramatic alteration to the system. This will take time to stabilize and have its practicalities to work out. The Department of Education are also, through the Council for the Curriculum Examinations and Assessment, totally revolutionizing the nature of the curriculum, with a particular emphasis on the 14–19 age group, giving greater onus to vocational programmes and widening subject choice. This is again a dramatic shift in position and one which will raise many challenges to all schools. The admissions arrangements to schools have to be altered by reason of the unsatisfactory use of the Transfer Test at age 11. The consequence of this is a direct challenge to the academic nature 3249641029 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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of many of our schools, especially those defined as grammar. Significantly, academic selection will no longer exist and now we shall have a new form of selection, which will be by post-code. This is inconsistent with policy in England and Wales. What is particularly upsetting in the current approach by Government is a lack of recognition of democracy. The people of Northern Ireland have been consulted extensively, by both a household survey and by a large questionnaire, they have told Government what they want and have been ignored. On top of all of these changes post-primary schools shall have to come to terms with reduction in funding and falling demographics. These challenges facing schools such as Rainey Endowed must be met and a practical way forward must be found. It is therefore my intention to suggest several matters to the Committee: — There is too much change all at once, some aspects must slow, be placed on hold or stopped altogether. — The changing of the administrative method is announced and should release funding into education. This should go ahead and the resources released should be carefully administered. — The curricular change must be carefully managed. The proposals by CCEA are described as being “at the cutting edge” of curriculum design. This does not give confidence on top of the administrative change. Nonetheless, Rainey Endowed School would agree that there should be a greater focus upon the skills required for a modern workforce in a land lacking in natural resources other than its educated population. Therefore, whilst we would be concerned that the “cutting edge” design of the CCEA curriculum might in the long term develop a “parochial” nature of Northern Ireland qualifications we would agree that it to should move forward. However, it is too expansive and shall cause considerable strain upon smaller schools. It is not unthinkable that CCEA are being used by Government to form an instrument that shall cause the closure of small uneconomic rural schools. If these schools are to be closed then so be it but do so for economics and be truthful, do not hide behind another’s rationale. The Department of Education rightly states they would wish academic schools to remain, but that does not mean the same as the existing grammar schools. It is disingenuous of the Department of Education to lead us to believe the two are the same. The Rainey Endowed has historically been a centre of learning for families from a wide geographic area in Mid-Ulster. The geographic nature of the selection that must come out of the Department’s proposals shall ensure that the area close to Rainey Endowed shall dictate who attends this school. This is wrong, contrary to the much propounded belief by Government in parental choice and must not be allowed to go ahead. Therefore of the three major changes this is the one that schools can do without and the changing system does not need to make as yet. I trained as a scientist and have taught science for twenty years. The basic premise of bringing change to a system is to alter one variable at a time. To alter two variables at the same time is bad science for how shall it be known what caused the change and what will be their mutual eVect. To alter three variables at one time is simply silly. However in dealing with the lives and prospects of the young people of my school and with those of my own children ‘silliness’ should not come in to play. There are two other matters that I must comment upon: 1. The UK economy has been in a very healthy state in the last number of years yet education is increasingly being faced with financial cutbacks. The proposals above have not been costed in any manner. How will we know whether or not it is worth the financial risk if we cannot assess their worth with some form of Value for Money Test? 2. The education system within England and Wales has developed in recent years into a model that encourages partnership and dialogue between school practitioners and policy makers. This is totally lacking in Northern Ireland. We very much live under an us-and-them regime. This is something that I think is sad and should be addressed as a matter of urgency. It is especially poignant that David Milliband was recognising such matters in England and Wales directly in 2003 and ultimately we see much of this concept of intelligent accountability in the white paper on education published in the five year strategy for education, the white paper and the Education Bill. Finally, living in Northern Ireland means that one always lives in hope. Hope that we can make things better for our children and our children’s children. If an outsider reflects upon the proposed changes then this commendable theme can be seen. However, it could also be interpreted that our system has totally broken down and needs radically overhauled. This is not so. In summary I argue that many of the proposals have worth in themselves but not mixed together in their current form. I would thank the members for taking time to read this document and allowing me the opportunity to put a small case for a small grammar school, loved by the people of Mid-Ulster. Robert M Robinson Headmaster 25 November 2005 3249641030 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Letter from the Chairman of the Committee to Mrs Margaret Martin, Principal, St Catherine’s College, Armagh You gave oral evidence to the Northern Ireland AVairs Committee on the occasion of its visit to Belfast on 28 November. I understand that the clerk of the committee has sent you the transcript of the Session. During the evidence session I asked you how many Protestant students attended St Catherine’s College. When pressed on this question, you replied that the number of Protestant students at the College was “possibly at 10%, no more than that” (Q50 on the transcript). The Committee has subsequently received representations to the eVect that the actual proportion of Protestant students at the College is less than 0.5%. When formal evidence is given to a Select Committee of the House of Commons, it is essential that this evidence is factually accurate. In the event of inadvertent error on the part of witnesses, Committees expect witnesses to seek to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing the proportion of students at the College who are from a Protestant backgound. If your initial information to the committee was inaccurate, we will publish any exchange of correspondence with the oral evidence. 7 December 2005
Written evidence from Thornhill College I wish to use this opportunity to comment upon some of the educational factors currently being discussed in Northern Ireland. We are a Grammar School and have obviously benefited from Selection over the years. We have no desire or wish to prop up elitism in the educational system in Northern Ireland but we do consider it would be sad to waste the collective experience and skills of a very well-qualified staV who teach to A Level and would be capable of delivery at University level. You, yourself mentioned that it is diYcult to staV Physics classes and Mathematics classes in England. We have no such diYculty. On the issue of elitism, I respectfully remind you that Grammar Schools have benefited all social classes in Northern Ireland. Dr Hugh Morrison of Queens University has produced a very interesting paper on selection. In it he indicates that to move and select by portfolio rather than by raw intelligence always benefits the middle classes who are better able to manipulate such a selection process. He quotes how this led to a preponderance of middle-class attendance at Universities such as Harvard in America. On the evening of your visit, the Belfast Telegraph opened its pages to receive letters from its readers on the Costello Report. All the letters except one wished to retain the Grammar School Provision. We are very concerned that in the rush to get rid of what is seen as an unfair and invidious system that we are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Surely it cannot be beyond our collective intelligence to take the present system, retain what is good and improve the rest? I noted that your party was interested in the fact that we are an all-Catholic School with little or no opportunity to meet students from other religions. I consider that too many people from outside Northern Ireland believe that Integrated Education would solve all our problems. Yet we, on the ground, have observed that there continues to be quite a lot of sectarian behaviour in such schools. In a Catholic School, such as ours, there is much emphasis on our Christian duty to respect others in keeping with our Mercy Ethos. I find our girls can mix in any company and hold their own opinions whilst respecting those of others. Mrs Sarah A Kelly Principal 5 December 2005 3249641032 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence from Brian Gibson I attended the public sessions of the select committee at stormont and would like to make some comments on the post primary school debate to your members. With four out of our five children through the 11-plus my wife and I are probably as well qualified as the next 11-plus failures to comment on the ongoing debate. My main concern is the con trick being pulled on parents, everyone hates the 11-plus but loves the grammar schools, parents fail to make the connection between some form of academic selection and the retention of academic (grammar) schools. When they do then the 11-plus ceases to be the Great Satan and becomes more of a necessary evil. The 11-plus is not compulsory you can opt your children out, few parents do, parents vote for academic selection in massive numbers when they enter their kids for the 11-plus, it’s that simple, if you don’t like academic selection tick the No box, return the form to the primary school, and send your kids to your local secondary school. It’s not rocket science! The con is that parents think the Costello reforms and burns report before them are about coming up with a kinder softer form of academic selection, the reality is that what is on oVer is comprehensive education with an extra large side order of extreme modernism that will destroy a system that is not perfect but works. I left school at 16 without a formal or third level education but as a parent when I am looking for advice on my children’s education I listen to people with a track record of success, not to educational experts, an expert in my opinion is often a person who learns more and more and more about less and less and less, as far as I can see those who oppose Costello have successful track records those who support it are the aforementioned self styled, so called experts, mostly failed teachers or non-classroom based pen pushers retain academic selection, keep our successful grammars, let the experts polish paper clips or do something where they can cause no damage, the 11-plus selected me as non-academic it was right I was at home in a secondary school, all these superannuated socialists in DENI having once ascended it are now seeking to kick away the ladder of success for others. Academic selection is the only thing I ever seen which frustrated the wealthy middle classes and then only occasionally, under the Costello proposals the range of possibilities open to the wealthy are boundless ie moving home close to good schools or buying private or semi private school places, four of our kids have benefited from a grammar education and are in reality first generation academics, I hope our diVerentiated systems survives so our youngest still in primary school will have some choices, not a one size fits all hobsons choice. I attended several public meetings during the burns debate and those who shouted the loudest in favour of academic selection were former secondary school pupil/parents like my wife and I who have seen the next generation getting the chance of a grammar place, as access to the grammars is no longer only extended to the ruling classes. The grammars have changed! but still have a way to go, given the chance and robust encouragement I think they will reform further, I for one would like to volunteer my service free of charge to any committee which could monitor and frustrate any middle class manipulation of the selection procedure so that equality of opportunity would be extended to all, we are being oVered equality of result by giving everyone the same which amounts to educational vandalism on a massive scale and should be rejected. 6 December 2005 3249641033 Page Type [E] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Written evidence from Niall McCaVerty I would like to protest in the strongest possible terms at your committee’s handling of the attempt by the grammar schools to undermine the decision already taken by government to end academic selection here. The public were excluded from participating in your furtive talks by being kept in total ignorance of them until after they had ended. This is intolerable. I would like to protest specifically at the exclusion of “Education Reform 21” from the consultation. A glance at the list of articles and authors on our website (www.reform21.org) shows we have made a very substantial spontaneous contribution to the seven-year debate. Further, “Education Reform 21” has also been invited to contribute, and has invariably done so, to every consultation by government, DE, and review committee throughout the seven years up to your committee’s secretive session. A recent report by Save the Children (November 2005) shows that in my local city, Derry, one third of children live on or below the breadline after 57 years of our elitist selective education system. After seven years consultation with all concerned, both the devolved and direct rule governments decided in succession to end academic selection and its attendant injustice against the poor. The grammar school lobby is now seeking to reverse this decision by presenting your committee with the results of a Household survey by the DE, carefully selected examination results, and a model for “academic selection” by Dr Hugh Morrison, QUB. Re the Household Survey, the limitations of its research design ensured from the beginning that whatever its outcome it would not be worth the paper it was written on. Further, the actual statistics produced by the grammar lobby to your committee are a complete misrepresentation of those in the DE Report. Re the examination results, they are the usual careful selection to mislead the uninitiated into thinking that Northern Ireland does best. For example, they present the five! Grades A*–C results where Northern Ireland, being an elitist system, does better than England; they omit the five! Grades A*–G results on which England does better. And, of course, they omit the Scottish comprehensive education results which are better than Northern Ireland at every level. The truth about educational achievement here after 57 years of selective education is presented in the “Urban Regeneration Baseline Study of Derry City Council Area”, by Indecon International Economic Consultants in association with London Economics (February 2005). It states that there is a “worryingly low level” of educational attainment, particularly at the earlier stages of education, including GCSE, A- level, and first degrees. The report also says that the high percentage with no qualifications at all must be addressed as a priority. This is the inevitable outcome of our elitist selective system. On reading Dr Morrison’s model for “academic selection”, the claim that it is valid, reliable, and culture- free is quickly seen to be untenable. Besides, the report claims erroneously that a recent research study by the LSE shows that selective education systems are more conducive to upward social mobility than comprehensive systems. The leader of the LSE research team recently wrote to the “Belfast Telegraph” pointing out that this claim is a misrepresentation of their research results which have no relationship whatever with education systems. If the decision to reject academic selection is to be reviewed now at the behest of the grammar schools, then the subjective decisions by the DE, Burns, and Costello in succession not to carry out a research study into comprehensive education as a possible replacement for the present selective system will have to be reversed also, and a scientific study undertaken by suitably qualified people and the findings presented to government and public. 8 December 2005
Written evidence (dated 16 December 2005) from Foyle and Londonderry College At lunch in Belfast Royal Academy, after the meeting of your Northern Ireland AVairs Committee on 28 November, I mentioned to you that I was surprised by the answer given by one of the CCMS group presenting evidence to the Committee. In answer to your question, “What is your mix—10%?” Mrs Martin of St Catherine’s College, Armagh, replied “Yes”. You asked if I could provide you with some figures to clarify the matter, and I enclose a print-out from the Northern Ireland Civil Service Website showing a breakdown of numbers of pupils by religion, by school type and management type in 2004–05 (not printed). The relevant section is highlighted in Secondary (Non-Grammar) Schools, Catholic Maintained/Other Maintained, which shows that in schools of the type of St Catherine’s with a total pupil complement of 43,388, 180 pupils were Protestant. In Catholic Secondary Schools, as a whole therefore, the percentage figure is actually 0.004%. Even if all non-Catholics are included, the figure only rises to 0.009%. Perhaps the Head of St. Catherine’s should be given the chance to revise her answer and oVer an actual number. I think the committee members would generally regard integration in schooling as desirable (as indeed do I). It is interesting that non-Catholic Secondary Schools have only 4% Catholic pupils, while the non- Catholic Voluntary Grammars have 10% Catholic pupils. Schools like Mr Young’s Belfast Royal Academy, the Foyle and Londonderry College, have larger numbers. The figure of 20% Roman Catholic pupils in 3249641034 Page Type [O] 03-02-06 22:32:16 Pag Table: COENEW PPSysB Unit: PAG2
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Foyle and Londonderry college is not untypical of the “natural” integration that our schools provide. “Natural” in this sense, means that parents have made a free and considered choice to place a pupil with us, as opposed to the quota system which has made the NICIE Integrated Schools less popular. W J Magill Headmaster 13 December 2005
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